To feel so upset regarding contact.

(1000 Posts)

Some of you may know my backstory from the nature of my post. I namechanged a while ago and have been trying to put the past behind me and move forward with 5mo DD.
Me and my ex have a rather volatile relationship. He didn't want me to keep DD. since she has been born he hasn't provided physically or emotionally. He pays half the maintainence he should.
I tried to keep him seeing DD, him coming here, me there (2.5 hour drive). Supervised by me.
I don't want or agree with any child been taken away from their father but he is so inconsistent and to put it bluntly useless it had crossed my mind that it may be better if he goes away.
He has had a new girlfriend who seems to have taken priority since when I was 5 months pregnant.
It's now 22 days since any contact with him. He's ignored my attempts to send pictures and updates and is like to know if I am BU by thinking this is not acceptable and letting it upset me.
I'm a bit of a wreck today. I know this is AIBU but please try to be gentle.

SamSmalaidh Sat 26-Jan-13 13:52:03

You aren't keeping a child away from their father, he isn't bothering. Do you really want someone in your baby's life who can't be bothered with her?

And his mother just sent this after sending me a nasty message 3 weeks ago. They haven't seen her since way before Xmas.

Just wanted to know how X is doing? Been thinking about her and would love to see her. Would you like to come one day this week or can we meet you somewhere?

I keep reminding myself of that. That's why I don't know why it hurts.
Thank you for your speedy reply.

SamSmalaidh Sat 26-Jan-13 14:02:07

Can you forget contact with him and cultivate contact with the grandmother? A friend of mine is in this situation - her son's father is a waste of space but she gets on well with his parents so her son sees his grandparents, aunts and cousins from the paternal family once a month or so.

Unfortunately the mother is just as bad. Looks down on me, has sent nasty letters and texts in the past and is nice to my face.
I'm too weak again to handle it

jellybeans Sat 26-Jan-13 14:08:05

I wouldn't bother with either to be honest. Saying that I have had a nightmare MIL (I could tell some terrible stories!) who I actually get on with now and it is easier all round to at least be civil. I always let her see DCs but on my terms and the more she was mean and rude the less she saw DCs. She eventually got it and made an effort so I did too and we get on enough for visits to be reasonably pleasant now. But I get that it is very hurtful for someone to treat you like dirt and expect to just have time with the baby. My MIL offered to pay to abort DD1 and then treated me like dirt refusing to even acknowledge me yet expected me to just hand her DD whenever she wanted-which was daily! Needless to say she didn't get it!

Jelly beans. Is this the same women? She offered to come with me to 'do the deed'.
I was five months gone at the time hmm

catinboots Sat 26-Jan-13 14:12:09

I would cut them out to be honest. I was in your situation OP and it's the best thing.

You can't force someone to care. You can't make people change. It sounds like you're flogging a dead horse. Stop wasting your time and energy on this twat and use it to focus on your DD.

Shall I ignore the text

MammaTJ Sat 26-Jan-13 14:15:36

Were you the person who had a training course and the father was meeting you then basically driving the baby from one visit to another?

Yes Mama that's me hmm

I'm the one who his mother told to 'cut her son some slack'

Tabliope Sat 26-Jan-13 14:23:45

I would reply to the ex's mother that you'd be happy for her to be part of your daughter's life but if she continues to be nasty to you, either to your face or if you find out behind you back, you'll cut all ties. Tell her you're already in a vulnerable situation and while you have so far encouraged her son to play a part in his daughter's life - for her sake as well as his as long term if he doesn't he might regret it - if he doesn't shape up a bit and see her regularly - whether that's weekly or once a month - it's better he doesn't see her at all. Tell her you consider your DD's family on both sides to be important and relationships need to be cultivated but in the meantime you're not going to put up with being treated as something she's trod in. Tell her if she is willing to try then so are you. Best of luck.

MammaTJ Sat 26-Jan-13 14:31:44

I thank you from the heart of my bottom for that previuos thread. It distracted me while I was waiting to go in to the dentist (the special dentists for wussy people) and I was very scared. You totally took my mind off it and I was so pleased you left your DC with your parents instead of allowing this.

I think you should tell her that you will forgive her previous attitude and will visit, but any unacceptable behaviour, words, emails or texts at any time will result in the visits being stopped.

OTTMummA Sat 26-Jan-13 14:32:17

I just wouldn't bother updating or contacting them anymore, he has made his choice, it isn't fair for your daugther to grow up not knowing if or when he will turn up for visits.
His mother ( she doesn't deserve to be called grandmother tbh ) would be getting nothing from me if i was in your shoes.
She clearly has a problem, what kind of person sends abusive texts and letters to her granddaughters mother, if she wanted to have a relationship with her then she should of treated you with more respect.
If my son had done this i would be thouroughly ashamed and find it hard to respect him, i would fully support the mother, its women like her that make men think they can get away with this shit.

Just tell them to fuck off.

I feel like replying 'is over three weeks enough slack for you?'

grin MammaTJ.

I would be disgusted if he was my son. In not saying he should have stayed with me but at least have some respect for all i have been through.

The longer he goes without contact the worse I sleep, the deeper the pit of my stomach feels, the heavier my heart is.
I'm sat at 12am with a teething baby, whilst he's snuggled up with his new beau ( who chased him whilst we were together), not a care in the world nor a thought about us.

Am I right in thinking that she lives some distance from you? No way would I spend hours travelling to accommodate her wishes. You are under no obligation whatsoever to facilitate this woman. If she wants contact, she must do all the running AND convince you that this contact would be beneficial to your daughter.

IMO, your daughter would benefit by NOT having contact with her father and his family. At 5 months old, their behaviour cannot really affect her; but as she gets older their callousness could really hurt.

I just don't want it to backfire on me.
You know they didn't even send her a proper Christmas card. Was a gift tag, signed just their names.
They are at least two hours away.
My mother has offered to reply explaining it is his job to Arange contact with them, this week is not good, I cannot forget the nature of messages and texts. That I am just becoming stronger and cannot deal with them at the moment.
What do you guys think?
Thank you all for your time, effort and support to make me feel like A normal human being!

PurplePidjin Sat 26-Jan-13 15:29:49

I think that she's more than welcome to contact with your dd - on his time. It's up to the father to sort out the child's relationship with his family, not the mother.

Text back:

I'm sure dd would love to see you as part of her next contact with her dad. I'm sure you can arrange it between you.

There is a problem with that. I will only allow supervised contact.
If he doesn't see her tommorow; well ask to see her tommorow it will have been over a month since he has seen her.
Forgive me if I am BU but no way am I letting her go with a man who doesn't not only not see her, but has not concern for her welfare nor how to care for her.

Whocansay Sat 26-Jan-13 15:36:29

I'd probably offer to meet her halfway somewhere, when its convenient for you. ExMIL maybe a bitch to you but she could turn out to be a good granny to your dd. You can never have too many people to love your child, imho. Give her a chance and see how it goes. Take your mum or dad though too! Just in case it goes pear shaped. And if it turns out to be awful, you can at least say you tried.

Whocansay Sat 26-Jan-13 15:37:27

FWIW I wouldn't let exfw anywhere near her without supervision either.

frustratedworkingmum Sat 26-Jan-13 15:39:09

See this as a good thing, cut contact, your DD deserves better - she is too young to remember the wank stain anyway, better off without

Whocansay- from my posts do you really think she has the makings for that?

They look on her as the 'bastard child'

No, I don't think she has the makings of a good granny. You need to care about the child to be a good relative to them, and it doesn't sound as if she does (ditto her son).

You say your mother's willing to reply to this woman? That's very kind of her and I'd take her up on it. I think you need a filter between you and this family, to protect you. The greater emotional distance between you and them that you can achieve, the better sad. They are not good for you, and you sound so low in your posts, I just think you would benefit from not having to deal with them right now.

PurplePidjin Sat 26-Jan-13 16:17:56

That kind of proves my point - if she'd raised a less despicable human being, she'd be getting what she wanted now. Reap what you sow and all that.

<hardfaced bitch>

I feel so low.
I just want it all to go away so I can concentrate on DD. I missed enjoying my pregnancy and first month of her life due to stress and the whole situation made me very ill.
I have no confidence left, it takes every fibre of willpower I have left to make it to baby clinic.
I only ever walk my dog and see my parents.
I am so critical of myself, so intent on keeping everyone happy.
Just when I get the impression they have gone- they send a text. After so long.
They think I need to cut their son some slack as he works so hard.
I had a job, a good career.
I am having to start my life again.
That one text will knock me sideways. I will be now unable to sleep, nor eat. The anxiety becomes too much.
I'm on medication for both these issues.
I just wonder why? What I did to deserve such a time? I always believed I was a kind genuine person, now I just doubt myself.
My days are filled with trying to understand something I will never understand.
The worst thing of all is the fact I can't stop these thoughts. Over and over again.
A silly text message is all is took wink

Never mind that anyway:
Do I ignore her? Or Mum to text? Or do I text?

Buddhastic Sat 26-Jan-13 16:41:50

I think you should ignore her. It seems any contact with her will only cause you more stress and really you don't need that right now. Not sure if you mentioned this but did he move away from you or you move back home to be near Mum and Dad?

I'd go with either 'ignore' or 'Mum to text and completely fob her off'. Direct contact with this woman is not in your best interests.

TalkativeJim Sat 26-Jan-13 16:50:53

If I were to reply to her text - which is doubtful - it would be along the lines of:

'Excuse me? The last message you sent me was highly inappropriate and abusive. Perhaps you would like to explain your reasons for sending messages like that before expecting me to be happy for my child to see you?

Throw it back to her and don't be pushed around.

Or-better still - just ignore. These people really aren't going to be a positive part of you and your DD's life - just the opposite. You might look back and regret the fact that they are involved more than you regret them not.

I would let them drift off.

He threw me out at 5 months pregnant, I had to take early maternity and move home to my parents.

flippinada Sat 26-Jan-13 17:00:39

I remember you from your previous thread MakeitUp. YANBU.

Of course it's hurtful, because this is your precious, lovely DD and I expect you're wondering how anyone could treat their own child with such indifference.

I would agree with others who have said that your DD won't get anything from these awful people being in her life.

That said, if they (ex and his mum) do want to be in her life it's up to them to do the running and prove to you that they are trustworthy and capable of looking after your daughter.

Best of luck to you.

PurplePidjin Sat 26-Jan-13 17:14:28

Ignore. Show her as much respect as she shows you.

StripiestSocks Sat 26-Jan-13 17:16:21

I think you would be wise to stop trying to facilitate any contact. It is hard that her dad is a waste of space, but you can't change him. Just focus on yourself, you are enough for your dd.

I'm so sorry, it is hard, but acceptance is really the only way for you to have peace.

StripiestSocks Sat 26-Jan-13 17:17:22

And I agree ignore his mum's texts. And stick to supervised contact.

TheProvincialLady Sat 26-Jan-13 17:48:13

BLOCK this woman so that she can't contact you. Look what happens when she does. You doubt yourself, it makes you v anxious and ill. You don't deserve that. It is up to your daughter's father to maintain contact between her and his famiy, but as he can't even safely organise contact with her himself it's not likely to happen any time soon (good!) - but that's not your fault or your responsibility. IF she had behaved with any decency you might have been able to accommodate her despite her appalling son, but she hasn't and she and her nasty family are bad news for your baby and for you. Don't let them contact you. Could your mum help you out by explaining the situation to MIL?

My mum is going to.

Thank you for all the kind words and guidance smile

It's just so very sad. How can you go so long without asking about a baby? You may not like me but she's a innocent baby, part of all of them.
They may work but so do my family. Some of my family have made a 4 hour each way journey to see her more often than her paternal family have ever seen her.

PurplePidjin Sat 26-Jan-13 19:52:02

Because he lacks the warmth and depth to merit even the title of Cunt.

Stop wasting your valuable time and energy on him. Your dad, brothers etc will provide a good enough male role model for your dd in years to come.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 26-Jan-13 19:52:37

I don't know if you will remember but we spoke about this before.

Why are you chasing him?
Why are you accepting his mothers behaviour?

Just ignore.nothing you can say or do will turn dd's dad into a reasonable human being so why are you encouraging him when he has no interest at all.

Just ignore any requests for anything that are not from him and respond accordingly to him.

By that I mean agree to his requests for contact within the safe arrangements you use but ignore everything else that does not fit into the safe requirements.

Thank you purple.
It's just got to that time of night again on a Saturday night where I've just got in bed, DD is asleep and I'm feeling lonely and sorry for myself.
My mum spoke to me earlier and believes I've done my grieving for my relationship already, I'm now almost grieving on DDs behalf in a disbelieving state.
I'm not sure where to turn actually. I've only got mum and dad back home really. I tried gingerbread but my nearest group is miles away. I'm not sure if I need therapy or something as my confidence is on the floor and beyond.
I took DD swimming today so that was an achievement.
This week I got two acceptance letter from college pending interviews, not too sure how ill manage getting to a interview however.
That's something anyway.

I know sock, I know your right. I've stopped everything now, I am just shocked that he has turned his back and the cheek of her text gave me a huge wobble that there is not garuntee (sp) they can go forever confused

3littlefrogs Sat 26-Jan-13 20:09:28

Give your mum your phone.

Get a new phone with a new number.

Would you be able to negotiate a deal with your phone company so that one phone could be a cheap PAYG?

Write one letter to your dd's father saying it is up to him to arrange contact, and whilst you are agreeable to a reasonable amount of supervised contact, neither he nor his family are to subject you to abusive tests and calls.

Do not give him, or any of his family your new phone number.

Whatever you do, don't go anywhere near any of those people on your own with dd.

Thank you.
I live with my mum and dad. I hate hearing from them. It gives me such a wobble and rather than feeling proud of how much I've done alone it makes me feel so sad.
They don't deserve to be in her life, everything is documented not just for if it ever goes to court but for DD too.
I'm considering writing a letter to DD outlining everything in her tiny life.

Right now my strength has gone. I want to curl up in a ball. I just want a cuddle and to sob and I do not know why!

Whocansay Sun 27-Jan-13 14:12:41

If you feel that uncomfortable about it, ignore her. You're the one that knows her.

As someone impartial, it sounds like she's trying to hold out an olive branch. Maybe she realises she was wrong and what she has to lose? I can't know what her motives are. You could try it once and see how it goes. You haven't lost anything other than an afternoon if it turns out to be a mistake. But take your mum with you for backup!

CremeEggThief Sun 27-Jan-13 14:26:21

So sorry you are feeling so low sad. FWIW, you have done so well this week, taking your DD swimming and applying for college. Keep track of those positives.

I really think you need to focus on you and DD now, and forget about your ex and his family. Don't stop contact, but if they want it, let them come to you and comply with your wishes. If they can't or won't do this, they're not worth bothering with.

Also, might it be worth going back to your GP to discuss how you're feeling?

Thank you everyone.

I'm not too sure what my doctor can do. I had counselling but it was only 8 sessions that just finished after DD was born

myroomisatip Sun 27-Jan-13 15:34:31

It seems to me that this is really making you ill.

These people will never change. Cut them right out. Do not have any contact whatsoever. If your parents are prepared to deal with any messages from them then let that be so.

As it was said upthread, your daughter will be loved enough by your own family and wont miss out by not having your ex and his mother in her life.

blackeyedsusan Sun 27-Jan-13 16:40:17

use the strength of you mum and dad fo now. there will be a time when you can repay that. I would just let the inlaws fade gradually out of you lives until they can prove that they will not abuse you and look after dd properly.

I hope you all know how much strength you give me

acceptableinthe80s Sun 27-Jan-13 17:08:47

You're torturing yourself trying to 'understand'. You never will, believe me, the sooner you stop trying the sooner you can get on with your life.

If he wants to be a father to his child, let him on your terms. If he can't commit to that, cut him out.
I'm glad you have supportive parents, it makes a huge difference.

DeepRedBetty Sun 27-Jan-13 17:18:47


Sorry twunt's mum is being as twuntish as twunt. If her behaviour is continuing to be as arrogant as her son's I think you need to allow your mum to be a firewall against her.

I admire the effort you've put in to trying to build some sort of relationship with her father's family for dd, but frankly they're showing no signs of playing ball and I think you should allow your own male relatives to become the key male role models. Twunt is never going to change and I don't think twunt's mother and father are either.

3littlefrogs Sun 27-Jan-13 21:53:41

I agree 100% with deepredbetty.

Your dd does not need toxic people in her life.

Your own family can provide all the love and role models she needs.

Ignore the whole lot of them, they are making you ill, and they will only cause more trouble for you and your dd further down the line if you encourage them.

Hello it's me here.
Please can I have some advice. Ex twunt has asked to see DD at lunch time tomo by text.
It's 4 weeks today since he saw her and 3 weeks since contact.
What do I do?
I don't want to her to go really, but I don't want it thrown in my face. What do I do?

catinboots Tue 05-Feb-13 14:13:17

Hi make.

I would just reply back politely that you already have plans today, but are happy to arrange meeting later in the week or at the weekend.

Don't jump because he has clicked.

catinboots Tue 05-Feb-13 14:14:19

Sorry. That should say you have plans tomorrow.

Keep the ball in your court and you call the shots

Thanks just when I think he has gone he comes back.
There's no excuse for no contact for this long is there shock

Wereonourway Tue 05-Feb-13 14:23:33

I know this feeling aid anxiety that a text can brin so well. I feel for you op.
have you had any legal advice?? This would be good. I felt less alone that I did before hand and felt it went the message that I wouldn't take any bullshit.
I don't think a days notice is enough having not heard anything for three weeks.
Pls make an appointment with a solicitor if you can. Tell then what you want and how you feel about his contact and any concerns you have. Take their advice. That's really all you can do.
The anxiety gets easier, I promise.
You just try to enjoy your beautiful baby. You won't get this precious time back x

catinboots Tue 05-Feb-13 14:24:28

How are you feeling Make? X

BarbarianMum Tue 05-Feb-13 14:29:08

catinboots gives excellent advice. If he is at all serious about seeing his dd, he will be prepared to make proper plans. When she's older she will really not take to last minute arrangements, will he/won't he be in touch/come and see her so much better to lay down the law at the beginning.

A solicitor and a proper access arrangement would be a really good idea.

I feel on edge if I'm honest.

The legal advice I have is to make him go for a contact arrangement or this will keep happening.
I don't want to see or speak to him. How can he do this? I just want to protect my DD. I am not saying I don't want her to have a Dad, I want her to have a proper one.
He just swans in and out. It me whose trying to make a life for us. Me whose up when she's teething, me she wants when she's upset, me that forces myself to play when I'm ropey, me that's pushing the buggy in snow to walk a dog, me that's trying to go to playgroup. Me that sings, feeds the ducks. Me who sobs on her behalf.

Why should he get these precious minutes with her? She's mine, she's been mine from the minute I wouldn't do what he wanted. He didn't want her, why see her? Why play controlling games.
I want regular contact not this, this is no good for her. He's been busy with his new beau for a month, no so much as a text. I could say he doesn't text as I'm a bitch but I'm not I've asked if he wants updates with no replays, asked if he wants pictures, no reply. I ask because I'm proud of my achievements.
I've had no help from him ever. I've a feeling he's asking to see her as I reopened my CSA case and they will have spoken to him now and he won't want to pay the extra.

I feel sick I don't want that parasite holding my baby ever.

I agree with cat, Ive been in your shoes and the only thing you can do is to stand firm on what you and your DD deserve. I would reply.

'Sorry, tomorrow is not possible. Please let me know a week in advance what contact arrangements you would like and I will do my best to accomodate them.'

No emotions, no questioning, no extra information about what you're doing.

Oh and in my situation I told DS1's father that I wanted a regular arrangement, every week or month. That if he wanted to see him more often we could sort that out but that there had to be a minimum commitment.
He told me is was 'dictating what sort of father he was' and buggered off. The last time he saw DS was about 10 years ago when he was 3 months old.

Im now married to a wonderful man who is a fantastic dad to DS.
Stand strong, dont let him be a dickhead.

It's just so wrong.

Why do I still feel a bitch for saying no?
Ill ignore until tonight I think, do you?

catinboots Tue 05-Feb-13 16:01:13

Stop besting yourself up. Think about your DD. If she is going to see her father - it needs to be regular, organised contact.

Not just when exDP feels like giving you a headfuck.

Text him tonight saying tomorrow is not onvenient. You are happy for him to see DD next week (specified day, time, place) and you will be expecting him to come to the visit with a plan in place regarding what he proposes re contact.

Sporadic is not good enough. When he feels like it/has got a free day is not good enough. Your DD deserves better.

If his offer is reasonable - you should agree to it. The second he breaks it - deal over.

I know I sound harsh but start thinking with your head. Not your heart. Your DD needs you to do this for her.


catinboots Tue 05-Feb-13 16:01:35

Beating not besting obvs

catinboots Tue 05-Feb-13 16:07:38

For what it's worth - I did this with DS1's dad.

He fucked off or 8 years and got back in contact via Facebook

5 years down the line, we've worked it out and he sees DS1 when he can (he lives abroad)

I now count his as one of my best friends. He came to my wedding and is actually going snowboarding with DH next week! (without me or DS)

I wouldn't have predicted our situation now in a MILLION years.

Keep your chin up beautiful x

catinboots Tue 05-Feb-13 16:08:06

Sorry for the million typos

Thank you smile

I did it I put just what you all said smile

Guess what... No reply.
Says it all

Whocansay Tue 05-Feb-13 20:16:55

I totally agree with Catinboots.

If he can't be bothered to behave like a proper father, that is not your fault. Nothing he's done so far has been what's best for your DD. Just what's best for him. Insist on supervised access through the court.

Hope you're OK.

catinboots Tue 05-Feb-13 20:18:08


Keep that in your mind!

He is a flakey turd.

What do you and DD have planned this week? Anything nice? Have you started swimming lessons with her yet?

I'm so naughty. DS1 started swimming at 6 months and is a brill swimmer (he's 13 now)

DS2 is 3 in March and he's only been in a swimming pool about 5 times blush

Well I feel surprisingly okay now.
We are doing one nice fun thing a day. So sat we go swimming, sun we fed the ducks, mon my memory's gone wink and today DD thought this was the best yet-
We found all the best free toys in the house we could. These include a wooden spoon, a TV control, a whisk and quite odd but a carrot and swede!
The dog thinks we are crackers wink it beats any noisy toys anyway.
Oh there was one sad moment today, Dd is rather attached to a toy rabbit ( like the Harvey and rabbit advert as our dog is a Harvey) well said rabbit had to have emergency surgery from mummy today after a rather horrific ear ripping off incident shock so this caused major drama.

See? See what he's missing? A insane women juggling carrots, various kitchen utensils whilst wielding a needle and thread! smile

Argh just got a message saying he wants to see her tomo as I offered him Sunday which he can't do! As he's away with new GF

Not my problem. He has had the last month.

catinboots Tue 05-Feb-13 20:43:58

Stand your ground Make.

Your DD. your rules x

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Tue 05-Feb-13 20:44:17

You simply repeat you have plans, don't get dragged into why/how/what. Never mind what he's doing when he can't see her, as long as you make it clear if he gives sufficient notice you will have no problem making her available in whatever way you want contact to happen (at yours/contact centre/soft play/park) and leave it at that. Do not engage. Keep it short, and simple, and repeat, repeat, repeat every time he sends you a text with less than 48 hours notice (or whatever notice you think is reasonable).

. I've been perfectly reasonable, you have been AWOL now for a month. I have said tommorow is too short notice as you did know. I have offered you Sunday, your day off, therefore I am accommodating that, if your priorities cannot accommodate that then that's that.

How's that?

thixotropic Tue 05-Feb-13 20:49:42

Just. Say. No.

Week in advance or nothing

And change your mobile number. Get a free/cheap payg sim give him that number only and (get your mum to) check it once a week, and tell him (in writing) that it is only been checked once a week, on a sunday night. So no txt by Sunday. No meeting in the next 7 days.

Same if he has email contact. Get a new email address. Check the one he can access once a week only.

Fuck him and his wanky bollocks. You know you want to.

I've been doing all that smile he doesn't have my main number a old payg in a drawer.
I'm so proud of myself for not caving regarding tomo smile
That's mostly down to all of you helpful supportive people smile

thixotropic Tue 05-Feb-13 20:57:50

Don't go into detail with replies to him. Just say: No. Not enough notice. 1 week or nothing. Try again later.
Don't engage or apologise

thixotropic Tue 05-Feb-13 21:00:31

I'm a lurker usually. But his nobbishness is making me angry enough to post. I have a close friend went through this Shit.

We are all rooting for you.

Thank you smile

I'm just so so angry. Not even asked how she is? Nor apologised/explained why he hasn't been in contact.
Is it unacceptable to be out of contact for a month isn't it? It's not just me is it?
My head is like a washing machine right now.

catinboots Wed 06-Feb-13 11:28:34

He is an arsewipe. You know that.

Why are you torturing yourself trying to understand why?

You need to stop giving this moron any of your brainspace

How though?

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Wed 06-Feb-13 11:39:35

You need to just focus on you and your DD and not think about him. You are hurt for your DD but you cannot change him or how he behaves so getting angry at him or hurt for your DD is energy wasted on the arsewipe. Fill your days thinking about what you can do for/with your DD and don't think about him at all. You need to let him do what he does and ignore ignore ignore. My mantra is do not engage - you need something similar so you can concentrate on just getting on with your life with your DD.

And now his mother emails asking for pictures. confused

FreckledLeopard Wed 06-Feb-13 12:22:37

I remember your previous threads. You're doing great - if you can totally ignore the others, not reply to texts etc, then try and do that. Sending nasty messages, changing times to see your DD, treating you like crap - you don't need it and nor does your DD.

I'd not initiate any communication with them or reply to texts. Ignore and see if they actually get off their backsides to do anything as regards regular, appropriate contact, or if they do nothing.

Chin up - you're doing great. One day at a time....

Freckled if I ignore and don't offer alternatives will it go against me if it ever went to court?

On another note I need a fun thing to do with DD tomo. We do one fun thing a day. Today was the park, we've fed the ducks and been swimming this week smile

I'd add my two penn'orth but there is so much great advice and support here.

I know your situation isn't quite the same as someone I'm in contact with on here, but she's had the same sorts of ups and downs as you, to a degree - and the 'play it cool' card is most certainly the one to use. The one where you just reiterate the facts, calmly, with no emotion. Not something that would go against you as it smacks of reason and rationality.

I think you're doing great! May poss be worth speaking to your GP to see if he thinks AD's might be a short-term solution to support/reinforce the counselling?

Just wanted to let you know I'm routing for you!

Thank you notgeoff smile
It's just so very hard. I think the fact my parents were not together since I was 1 makes it harder as they have managed to have a lovely amicable relationship.
There's a bit of a baby boom going on at the minute and its quite upsetting seeing the marriage proposals of some and the short relationships turning into family's. not that I want that off twunt but I still find I'm envious

diddl Thu 07-Feb-13 07:30:37

How horrible it all sounds.

I agree with keeping if factual-that doesn´t work-how about this?

As for his Mum-isn´t it up to him to arrange when she sees her & can´t he send pictures??

diddl Thu 07-Feb-13 07:31:11

If she already has two good GPs in your parents-that´s enough!!

Exactly but he has no pictures to send them.
I'm not a rude person but i am thinking of writing them a honest email, after all what exactly do I have to loose. I've shut up and put up for too long. I sent them a picture it's not like they deserve that, they didn't want her!

diddl Thu 07-Feb-13 07:50:31

"Exactly but he has no pictures to send them."

Not your problem!

catinboots Thu 07-Feb-13 08:10:54

Don't email.

I won't smile

An amicable relationship is dependant on both parties being reasonable, though - and if your ex is not willing to compromise or be considerate in any way, unfortunately that isn't going to pan out.

WRT other people, well, that's other people. I know many folks who were happily coupled up when I was horribly single. Unfortunately almost all of them have been deceived, cheated on, abused or walked out on. One of my friends has a very volatile relationship with her ex and is basically only still speaking to him (mostly through a sol.) for the benefit of her children. Who he often cancels visits with. The eldest child sees him for what he is and has said that she no longer wants contact. So it appears that Karma is well and truly at work.

Just keep away from the texting! smile

smile I will I promise.
I just hope someone comes along for me one day

Honestly, plenty of time!

A friend of mine was a single mum for a few years. Her ex walked out on her when she was pregnant, wanted nothing to do with her or the baby.

She brought up her little one whilst working a p/t job and doing a f/t degree course. She met a man (friend of her parents) when her child was around 3. They got married last year, and her child (by then 6.5) played a key role in the whole ceremony.

I hear child no. 2 is on its way now too.

That's amazing! smile

Today I can't do it. I can't even stop the tears this morning. I don't want to do it anymore. I can't do it.

YellowAndGreenAndRedAndBlue Sat 09-Feb-13 09:06:48

Oh, lovey, what can't you do? I'm sorry you're sad.

I can't bring up a baby on my own. It's relentless and the tears won't stop this morning.
I need to take her swimming and it will be full of families and I just can't do it

You CAN do it, lovely!

Deep breath. Break the day into small chunks. Just deal with each hour individually rather than thinking (and worrying about the whole day).

Make sure you have a reward in store for yourself - a choc bar, a cake, a glass of something nice, a bubble bath, etc.

Sending you some hugs - regardless of protocol. xx

I can't do it I'm so rubbish at it.
She must get so sick of looking at me. Yesterday was a great great day and today I've crashed. Everything feels so forced.

YellowAndGreenAndRedAndBlue Sat 09-Feb-13 09:50:59

You don't need to take her swimming. Take her somewhere less hard work but still nice, like for a walk in the park.

She does not get sick of looking at you, she loves you. Tell her you are a bit sad and when we are sad we cry and then crying helps us get a bit of sad out so we feel better. Then have a big cry. Then it will stop. Then go out in the fresh air, even for 15 minutes. Then get some toys out and sit n the floor and faff about.

Eat a boiled egg or similar easy something for lunch.

You can do that, I know you can, and that is all a good mum needs to do just today. In fact, that is pretty damn good IMO.

I hav had hard days andonthose days I make a two hour plan and get through it. Today is just one day.

Ah yes, don't worry about swimming. I've never taken DD swimming. Mainly because I hate being in the water, and I can barely swim.

We've done nothing all morning! I'm going to take her out for a little run round/play in the park. Then some lunch. Then going to sleep whilst she does.
Got PMT lurking and feel like shit - and I'm off out tonight, so got to get the place tidy for babysitters.

Yellow has it all summed up beautifully! smile

Ashoething Sat 09-Feb-13 11:35:37

Did you used to be pickles?

If so my advice remains the same-stop focusing on him and his new gf-he has moved on. He is not coming back and even if he did why would you want him after the way he has behaved?

Go see a solicitor and arrange formal contact. If he fucks that up then he is out of your dd's life and you can say that you did your very best by your dd.

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 12:17:58

Make - I'm going to be quite harsh now and tell me to fuck off if I'm wrong.

But I'm getting the feeling that this isn't about DD. it's about you.

I think you're still struggling with XP's rejection of you. You know your DD is fine. She has you, she has your parents. She's a happy baby. So why so much angst over a twatty boy and his silly mother?

You do know that children grow up with just one parent and are fine don't you?

But you didn't envisage this. You thought XP would fall in love with DD and subsequently fall (back) in love with you.

You are hankering for a traditional family unit and family life. But trust me sweety, he cannot and will not give you that.

You are filled with fury that he doesn't have the same love and adoration that you have for your DD - and you can't understand how he has moved on so quickly.

In an earlier post you talked about yourself and 'what he was missing out on'

Honey it's sooooo hard and I've been there, got the t shirt. But he doesn't love you. And never will. He will never love DD the way that you do, and want him to.

Please, please, please, for your own sanity - accept that you are no longer a couple, accept that your DD doesn't have a father, and focus on YOU.

You are stuck in a headspace that is pointless, destructive and to be quite honest, very selfish.

Please feel free to tell me I am a cunt and I am totally wrong. I will hide your thread.


Your right cat

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 12:43:19

Oh honey ((((((((cuddle))))))))

I want to pick you up and squeeze your bones.

It will get better. I promise. One day you won't feel like this. I promise. Just keep breathing. One day at a time. Look at your beautiful DD and start thinking about the future.

What are your plans? College? Job?

I got into college on a access course.

The thing is I haven't stopped him seeing her regardless of my feelings. I can't afford solicitors and don't qualify for legal aid. I've been once.
I'm just do terrified they will take her away. I've not always said the best things but my actions say more. I'm not a bad person. I don't see what's wrong with me. I never lied about anything that's gone on. I can't afford the legal fees they can.
I actually want to just die.

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 12:53:15

Honey. You do not want to die. They will not take DD.

I truely think you need to cut all contact with them. For your sake. To keep your brain sane. To enable you to continue being a Top Mum!

They can contact via solicitor for contact. Are you sure re the legal aid thing? I though it was really easy to get in family law cases?

Do you know any other young single mums? Have you looked at the local boards on here? Or tried <whispers> netmums?

Finding people in the same position who have coped/are coping will help you I promise


catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 12:55:36

Where are you Make??

I have two great Mn friends and you always talk to me. There's no gingerbread in my area.
I'm rubbish for dd like this. It feels like it will never go away. If it goes to court there's no garuntee what access they will get is there?

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 13:00:40

I know happy stories don't help. But I was you 13 years ago.

I am now married with DS2 (see! It does happen)

BUT. I treasure those days with DS1, just the two of us. He is AMAZING and my best friend and a wonderful young man (and my favourite but sssssshhhhhhh smile)

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 13:01:36

Do you think they will really take it to court?

Fuckers aren't they? Will drag it to court even though not really that interested

Cat- I don't even know what to do. Of they email for contact and I ignore if it does ever go to court it will go against me. My diary has all the facts, but I feel ill be made to look like its made up should it go to court.
I Just want a happy ending. If he wants to be a dad be a dad, but don't tell lies, because that's making me doubt myself.
I feel so under scrutiny (mostly by myself) that even I feel like I'm lying, if that makes sense. She told me she's getting him to call me, what's the point.
You know you said it's about me partly, well if I got an apology and he was regular with contact and took a interest I could do it.
I hope I'm making sense

I can't offer any advice on legal aid because it's not something I've done, but if you're at college, there will be a student support department. It's well worth speaking to them (not to necessarily give them the whole backstory, but to give them an outline) as they may know the appropriate avenues of legal support/intervention etc. or alternative means. I know they've been very helpful to a friend of mine for different (although some similar to you) reasons.

I am wondering if there are any MN-ers who are close to you. If I was nearer to you, I'd be over with tea/coffee and cake right now... but I know you're several hours away, unfortunately sad

Cat has some good advice, particularly as she's speaking from experience, but I realise that may all be quite overwhelming at the moment.

On another subject, how's college going? You know what, I admire your determination in doing it right now. If my DD was 5 months old and I was at college, I'd be freaking out! I find it hard enough being p/t with her being 2 years old. My time is not my own! (ungrateful emoticon needed).

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 13:15:53

I think - and I might be wrong, that you should make them a formal offer of contact

(Hopefully some legal bods will be along soon)

And as you are doing already - keep EVERYTHING written down. So far, they don't look good.

They've not kept regular contact.

They've not proposed an offer of regular contact.

Now is the time for you to say - ok, you can see her every Saturday at X time at X location. If they are serious about a relationship with her, they will agree to it.

And I totally understand about how it would be easier for you if they accepted and loved DD the way that you do.

Double rejection is utter shit. Not only are you hurting, but you are astounded how someone could hurt your beloved DD

Good god Make - I'd like to give your XP and his mother a piece of my mind. Messing with a new mum, who is clearly vulnerable and struggling?

Utter, utter cunts. Particularly the mother.

She said I chose to be alone, as many mothers do now shock

I have offered them formal contact before. I have it written out for both of us to sign but he refuses at the end of nov. says it was pointless. It outlined more contact that I'd be willing to give now.
Apparently the mother sees no problem with her going for overnights and long days out straight away and has said I was lying in regards to the last time he had her alone.
I've got screen shots of messages and emails and all in a diary. I feel sodding shite, if it went to court could he get that?
I'm not at college yet smile start sept.

I met up with a mner yesterday and plan to meet another soon.
I can't believe it will be a year in June since this all started.
The no contact felt so much better.
I'm also not sure if its better for me to just skint myself and take him to court rather than him take me. If that makes sense as that shows I want him to have contact.
I just feel so awful. I know I haven't acted in the best ways possible sometimes but how can anyone want to live through this. Why would anyone want this on them.
Their family have never dealt with anything like this apparently. Oh yes mine deal with it all the times.
She said I was lying about all the things that had gone on in regards to my parents not wanting him in our family home, when I asked would she like her daughter treated how I have. She said I brought it all on myself, I destroyed myself.

Whocansay Sat 09-Feb-13 14:02:26

I must admit I had some sympathy with the exMIL until I read your last post. Keep your dd away from the lot of them. Make him tak eyou to court and ignore all further contact that isn't official. She's an evil old witch.

You're doing so well. You have so much to be proud of. Don't let these bastards tell you differently.

She's a bitch, and she knows she is.

I hope you reminded her that if her stupid son had his own way, there would be no grandchild. So, yes, you did it your way. That gives them no right to dictate to you how to live your life or what to do.

I'm wondering if you might consider posting in legal here to see if anyone can offer you any advice regarding court/contact.

It sounds to me as if you have everything properly logged and annotated. If she wants to live in victorian times (in her mind) let her.

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 14:09:42

Right Make. Lets see what we have established.

1) you are a good mum

2) XP is a cunt

3) XP's mother is a cunt

That's all you need to focus on. You have offered them a formal custody agreement - they have failed to comply. Ball TOTALLY in your court. If anything ever goes to court - that will shoot them up the arse.

I would be inclined to ignore, ignore, ignore. And if they get in contact just send your offer of regular' reasonable contact. Again and again and agin. The more times he refuses to sign - the bigger hole he digs

You have it Cat! smile

I was wondering if you both might like to indulge me and offer me some alternative MN names? I'm (very slowly) writing a book and could do with some inspiration!

(Sorry, totally off topic!)

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 14:19:47

Ooh Geoff? What sort of names are you after?

What's the book about?

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 14:28:59

Blimey Make. This has brought it all back!

I'm just sitting here remembering how their rejection is the worst kind of hurt. They're not just rejecting you, they're rejecting the most perfect, flawless, vulnerable part of you - your DD. double wammy.

I wish I could take your pain away.


What are you plans for the rest of the weekend?

I would love the pain to go away. We actually went for a swim. I'm just stitching DD a cushion, and we need to take our pooch to the park.
Tomo I am sorting some of DDs things out to give to a MNetter in need.
I'm trying to keep busy so I don't just sit and crumble. I know I need to be strong, keep strong for the baby I fought so hard to keep. That's what I want to say- they didn't want her. Why do they behave like this? Go away, she is mine.
She even said 'he has equal rights his name is on the BC' I felt like saying only one person knows who her father is and that's me. But sadly that's callous and I'm better than that.
Cat- you were right I genuinly thought the shock of seeing DD would
Make him realise he loved us.
I just can't believe how sad it is. I just want to curl up in a ball and let it pass , it is hard enough just trying to be a mother.
Ever since I was a child it's never been about marriage etc ive always wanted a family and children. I can never get the chance to be pg or hold my newborn for the first time again.
I'm trying to get on but it consumes me.
Thank you for all taking time out to console me and steady me. A few hours ago I would have jumped in a lion pit, now it's more curling up and sleeping it away,

What's the book lowdown notgeoff? smile

Does he legally have equal rights in regard to seeing her?

Lowdown on the book is that one of my characters is off to meet some women she knows from an online forum! smile smile

I don't really want to say more than that on here because it's a 'reasonably' public place and I haven't written enough to lodge any copyright to anything.

PM me if you want more!

The cushion stitching sounds good. We did get out but as it was raining it was only to the shop and back. About to down some more paracetamol and hope they'll kick in soon.

Managed to hoover & straighten up the lounge. Got to do all the washing up yet, and have promised DD a bath and hair wash. Time is tight but just wanted to check back in and see how you were doing.

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 16:07:44

Name on BC means fuck all

You have been reasonable and made and offer of regular contact. They have failed to comply.

Could he manipulate a court and ever get whole days and overnights with her. That's what I'm so scared of.

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 17:33:31

Very unlikely seeing as he has been non-compliant so far

So it could happen x

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 17:42:37

Make I don't know about the law. But I would think its unlikely given the circumstances. But don't worry about that. It's a long way ahead. Focus on the now.

I'm going to have to take him to court aren't I

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 17:48:40

No. He will have to take you to court if he wants regular, organised contact with DD. Which you have already offered. Which he has declined.

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 17:53:52

Make - what will happen will happen. He is her father. And if he proves himself he will be entitled to contact with her.

HOWEVER. This will be a lot further down the line. And if he suddenly stops being a cunt and starts being a big boy - then great. Your DD will have a dad.

Not looking likely though is it?

You are still thinking about HIM. Your angst is all about HIM.

How is DD?

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 17:56:49

I can tell you are still focused on wanting him to love DD

You are flogging a dead horse. If he was interested he would not be playing these silly games. You cannot force someone to love someone. You cannot force someone to have feelings that you want them to have.

Sorry to sound so harsh but you need to face up to the reality.

Thank you cat, I'm thinking of dd. I don't want her distressed with people she doesn't know that's all she's getting to that clingy stage.
She's good thanks she's playing with her toys grin

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 18:00:20

Well I'm just trying to decide what to have from the Chinese? winegrin

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 18:00:57

Big decisions!

What do your parents think of it all Make?

Arh special curry! My fave.

They think I should ignore and force them to take me to court.

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 18:15:28

What is special curry?

It's on my menu

It's beef pork prawns and chicken in a curry sauce smile

Cat- I hope you had a nice Chinese.

Thank you all for your support reassurance and handholding today. I feel slightly better, still feel surreal and very shaky. Mum just tucked me in bed, I feel about five. The tears have given into exhaustion. My DD Is tucked in her bed, has been cuddled within a inch of her life. She's the only thing that makes me carry on going, I have to be strong and protect her from this hurt. I am her mum, no matter what happens. I need the best for her, I need to think about if she is ever in my shoes.
If I can't carry on for myself, I can and have to do it for her. I love her in a way no one else ever will, and that means everything to me. Never mind ever saying marriage vows, I promise my daughter the world every night and I will deliver.

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 21:05:22

Chinese was lush. Will order special curry next time. Sounds right up DH and DS1's street. DS2 is a fussy bugger and only eats bland, tasteless food.

Your mum sounds like an absolute star. Listen to her.

Big hugs to you and DD.

You are amazing. Don't ever let anybody make you doubt that.

thanks X

catinboots Sat 09-Feb-13 21:10:07

Oh and Geoff. If I feature in your book - I don't care what I'm called. But can I be glamorous please???

I'm just so so scared. Not a wink of sleep

Casserole Sun 10-Feb-13 07:59:18

Make I'm so sorry you're struggling.

I honestly don't think you need to feel scared right now. You are doing all the right things and it sounds like you are a great Mum to your DD smile

What are you scared of this morning in particular?

Sure, Cat - just PM me and I'll tell you what I need from you smile

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 10-Feb-13 09:55:46

Make, you need to go to your GP and ask to be referred for some counselling. You need to change your thought patterns and that's hard to do on your own when feeling low and scared. The one thing I will say to you is that YOU are enough for your DD, your family all love and adore her and that is enough for her. Your hurt for her because of how her 'dad' and his family treat her and you, isn't something she knows or feels herself. You need to gain some confidence in what you are doing, and try not to dwell on the other stuff. The simple fact is, those people have an agenda and that is to make you suffer because they are mean fucked up people. You need to be able to detach yourself from that, to live away from the effect they have on you. Just key your mum deal with them, and get on with bring the best mum you are fit your DD.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 10-Feb-13 09:57:20

That should be 'move' away from the effect and 'let' your mum deal.

Thank you smile I'm trying it always happens at weekends doesn't it when The doctors isn't open!
I think I'm just so scared of the unknown and having to give DD away for days when she is so tiny to these nasty people.
Not Geoff- I would love to help too x

I think court now is the only way to go as he's emailed this morning asking for photographs and said he can't see her today but wants her alone one lunch 12-6 next week.
Do you think if I post another thread asking if anyone has been to court regarding contact and if they could share their experience with me it might help as I have been looking into it all this morning and it seems terrifying if I'm honest.
My family will support me through the process and believe its the only way now as I have regressed substantially over a 24 hour period. It's more final and set in stone. DD is protected, that way. She can have a relationship with her dad should he wish and I am sheltering myself from it.
She may not feel how I feel but she seems to be picking up on it and I don't like that- makes me very hmm.

I just cannot believe these people, it is one thing to do this to me but to have no thought and consideration for DD and her needs are something else.
I need to do this now, because my life needs to go on. I need to provide DD with a fantastic mummy. I need to be strong for DD. not sit here doubting myself and picking holes in what I have done, it's not healthy and as a reply has just said my whole thought process is warped. Just as I pick myself up and move forward, I feel them breathing on my neck and pulling me back.
I need to break this cycle don't I?

I think a new thread on the legal board would be a great idea. I think you're in a position to be the one calling the shots, but I don't have experience in that field.

You need to get things formalised, set in stone so that you can move on. smile

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 10-Feb-13 13:45:00

Make, in your shoes I'd suggest he find out the details of a contact centre near you and get back in touch once he's made the necessary arrangements for seeing your DD. anything else he can whistle for. You do not need to yield to his whims on when he wants to see your DD. if he shows willing to go to the bother of setting up a contact centre for him to spend time with your DD, keeps up regular pre-arranged contact, then things can progress as they need to for your DD. You need to protect yourself from his indifferent attitude to maintaining interest so tell him you'll make DD available for 1 or 2 hours contact per week/fortnight at a contact centre near you for him to see and spend time with DD to start with. He keeps that up for a period of say 3 mths, you can then discuss how to move on from that once he's shown the commitment to your DD. it'll all be recorded when he turns up/cancels etc. if he can't commit. If he fails to even arrange it, then that reflects on him, not you. And you'll be as prepared for court as its possible to be - making DD available is your responsibility, his is to take the offer of contact on the terms offered. Refusal won't reflect well on him.

Bunch- thank you for your advice. Sadly I have done that but he refused and launched a torrent of abuse. He wants her all day and overnights straight away as he lives a way away. If I won't do that he starts the abuse, then the ignorance and just when I think he has gone he comes back. With his demands.
Hence I think court is the only way now hmm

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 10-Feb-13 14:14:30

Make, if you post all this in legal, detailing the method of communication between you, what evidence/records you have, and his response to your suggestions on how contact should begin, then hopefully you'll get good feed back over what to expect if he does go to a solicitor. Just remember, it's the court that has final say - just because something is typed in a solicitor's letter doesn't mean it's true or you have to comply with anything suggested. Just stick to your initial suggestion re starting in a contact centre and try to ignore any digs at you etc.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 10-Feb-13 14:28:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Thank you for to time.
What do I do in regards to his plans to see her in the week?

ProphetOfDoom Sun 10-Feb-13 14:47:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 10-Feb-13 14:48:11

You stick to what you have said before. He arranges a contact centre, on a day that suits, and you'll bring DD along so he spends time with her. If he refuses, you ignore his abuse. You might want to speak to the non emergency police number if he starts anymore abuse, just so it's recorded that you have concerns about his treatment of you. You need to hold on to the fact that he can ask for the moon if he likes, he isn't getting it! YOU are your DD's main carer, and you can determine how/when/how long/how often contact happens at this point, not him. As long as you are maintaining your responsibility to make DD available for contact you think is reasonable, then he's just going to make himself out to be a twat every time he has a tantrum. Like Smaltzing says, he cannot expect adhoc contact arrangements for such a small child, so he needs to wise up if he's got any hope of spending time with your DD. Keep your resolve, if you back down he'll just think he can bugger off for another few months and kick off some more next time he remembers he's got a DD.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 10-Feb-13 14:50:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

He will not do a contact centre full stop. He won't give me a day. He says he will not be dictated too by me. So if I book a contact centre, try and get a day and time from him and do the contact order in the background.

I think I forgot to update after everything but the CSA have reopened my case and it has gone through. He stop maintenance payments when they contacted him so it's all noted.
I think this is the sudden urge to see her due to trying to manipulate me to drop it as it will have cost him X amount to come and see her!

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 10-Feb-13 15:14:16

Make, just tell him you will not be making DD available for adhoc contact and ignore his tantrum. If he won't even tell you which day, now, when he's asking for contact, don't bother trying to arrange a contact centre. You would be wasting your time and money trying to take him to court. He won't be compelled to stick to it - court orders only compel you to make DD available for the contact stipulated in the order. Stick to the wording Schmaltzing says about what he is asking for/agreeing to. Treat him like the fuckwit he is and repeat your stance whenever he contacts you. Do not deviate as he'll just take that as weakness on your part and keep coming back when it suits him to turn the screw.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 10-Feb-13 15:19:34

Make, if you don't feel strong enough to say all this to him, or his abuse is getting to you, please let your mum or dad deal with him for you.

Thank you.
I just feel like I'm living a nightmare.

Casserole Sun 10-Feb-13 19:31:44

Make, my love, you're looking at this the wrong way round.

YOU don't organise a contact centre. You say to him all the research and wisdom available suggetsts that children do not benefit from sporadic contact and that if he wishes to set up regular contact, HE needs to arrange it through a contact centre near her. You will then comply with whatever the contact centre recommends.

I know he won't do it. I know he will kick off. But that is not your problem. Just keep replying "This is the way forward that I will agree to, and the way forward I feel is in DD's best interests. Any abusive texts from you will not be responded to." If he is abusive, that is all fodder for your case. Record every abusive text in a file somewhere with the date and content.

Whocansay Sun 10-Feb-13 19:51:20

What Casserole said. Let him sort access if he wants it.

If he is abusive, block his number and force him to use email. You don't have to listen to his tantrums.

But he won't do it and in years to come will tell DD it was all my fault, he will manipulate her how he did to me for the duration of our relationship.
The worst thing is I know you are right, i am just so desperate

SoftKittyWarmKitty Sun 10-Feb-13 20:01:48

Make I've read the whole thread and you're doing really well. You know how I know? Because I've been in a similar situation. The fact that you want your ex to be a dad to your DD and you're willing to do all you can to accommodate that, shows just what an amazing mum you are. However don't let that lead to him walking all over you by calling all the shots and emotionally blackmailing you. I agree with the poster who said to tell your ex to book a regular slot at a contact centre near to you (important so your DD doesn't have to travel far - in her best interests) and if contact is regular and sustained, after three months you'll discuss contact outside of the contact centre. Ensure you send him this message in writing so you can prove you've offered this as a viable option, should you need to in future. If he declines your offer, that's his problem. If he sends abusive messages, texts and emails, keep them in case it all goes to court. If the abusive messages continue, report him to the police for harassment.

If he's interested in building a relationship with your DD, he needs to make the effort. He can't expect to have her for half a day by himself when he hasn't seen her for over a month! But then I don't think this is about him having contact with your DD, it's about fucking with your head and trying to control you - hence him refusing the contact centre because a/ you're in control of that and b/ he'd actually have to make an effort to see your DD. If he refuses the contact centre and demands to have her half a day on his own as he has today, politely decline and reinstate your request for him to arrange a contact centre. If he has the gumption he may well go straight to court but that's for him to do, not you. I very much doubt he'd do that tbh. A friend of mine has a great saying that fits well here - you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. You can't force a man to be a dad.

Like you, my ex buggered off with the OW when I was 4 months pregnant. I wanted him to be involved with DS and once DS was born I did all I can to facilitate that. I sent letters and texts telling him he could see DS when he wanted, sent photos to both my ex and his mum, spoke to him on the phone offering to meet him with DS etc. He once rang and we arranged to meet but guess what? He didn't turn up. I just couldn't understand why he didn't want to be involved with DS, why he didn't want to get to know this amazing child and be a dad to him - quite honestly it took a few years before I was able to come to terms with that. I stopped chasing him when DS was about five or six months old and I went back to work, because quite frankly I had enough to juggle and it was more than obvious that neither him nor his family were interested in DS. To this day his 'dad' has never seen him and doesn't pay a penny in maintenance but you know what? DS is a happy, well-balanced 6 year old. We are a family, the two of us, plus our cat smile. I very rarely give that loser a second thought. You'll get there too.

Kitty, thank you for sharing my story. I feel and act just as you did and you last paragraph was beautiful, really touched me and gave me tears.
I want to get this sorted and help other people who heaven forbid have to go through this hmm

SoftKittyWarmKitty Sun 10-Feb-13 20:17:44

I cross posted with you OP. Your ex is relying on you feeling desperate so he can manipulate and bully you like he used to. You're not with him now, so don't let him get to you with his empty threats and ramblings. Just tell him about the contact centre and rinse and repeat as necessary.

As for him manipulating your DD, please dont give in to his demands based on this fear. For a start, he's got to bother to see her regularly in the first place and he clearly isn't winning there is he? He hasn't bothered with her in over a month and is only doing so now because the CSA have contacted him and that reminded him that he has a child hmm. Also as your DDs main carer, as she grows up you can let her know in an age-appropriate way, what her dad was like - she'll most likely ask questions anyway. You'll also have the evidence from the texts and emails going backwards and forwards now, which you'll keep in a safe place, maybe all together in a folder won't you?!. He will not manipulate her - kids aren't stupid, they see through shite.

I kept everything wink

Casserole Sun 10-Feb-13 20:31:28

So here's what you'll tell your DD, when she grows up. You'll say that you stood up to a man that was trying to bully you, because you knew that you were worth more. That you acted to protect her, because you knew she was worth more. And that you hope that she will know that in life SHE does not have to be bullied or pushed around by a man or in fact by anyone. That it is ok and MORE THAN OK to take steps to protect yourself and those you love against emotional abuse and manipulation. And you tell her for those reasons you are PROUD of all your choices and you make them again tomorrow.

Casserole Sun 10-Feb-13 20:31:55

you would make them again tomorrow.

catinboots Sun 10-Feb-13 20:41:29

Hi make.

Please read SoftKitty's story again and again. She is a wise lady.

Men like your XP and my XP and SoftKitty's XP are sooooo predictable. All follow the same script.

I just want you to know all your support is so gratefully received. Your helping and supporting more than you will ever know

ProphetOfDoom Sun 10-Feb-13 21:07:21

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Sun 10-Feb-13 21:11:12

What Casserole said at 20:31:28. Exactly what she said.

I'd do anything to protect that little girl, she is my DD.
I think speaking to my doctor first thing is a good start, as I think my thought train and perseptions are wrong towards myself.
I can do this. I can do this for DD smile

littlemisssarcastic Sun 10-Feb-13 21:43:21

OP, I could have written so many of your posts.
Your xp doesn't appear to be interested in consistent contact to benefit your DD. You have offered him that and he didn't want it.

My xp and I split when my DD was 6 months. I took the matter to court, gave xp the contact he asked for in court. He stuck to it for as long as he had access to his mothers car, then he stopped.
There was absolutely nothing I could do to make him see DD. He could have done, but he didn't bother. He put so many obstacles in the way, he was too busy, he was working, he couldn't get to mine to pick DD up, he didn't have the things he needed to look after her for contact.
I agreed to drive DD to him and pick her up, I agreed to supply him with everything she needed, I agreed to change the days/hours to suit. It wasn't enough. He ended up saying 'Oh it's just too much bother.' shock

I continued trying and trying. He continued playing headfuck games with me, so I returned the matter to court again. The judge knew he had let DD down consistently for about 7 months at this point, yet not a word was said by the judge to tell xp that it wasn't acceptable, not a word. The only person who had an opinion on xp's behaviour was my barrister, who asked me, in all seriousness, 'Has he always been such a clown?' XP was merely offered different days/times that suited him. He chose every other weekend, all weekend. It was seen to be usual for a 13 month old to have contact overnight with a father she barely knew. Court order granted.

Contact resumed for approx a year, then XP just stopped bothering again. He had split with gf and met another woman. He didn't contact me to arrange seeing DD for 10 months.

By this point, DD was almost 3.

Contact resumed sporadically, and has remained sporadic until this day.

I never wanted to deprive DD of her dad when we split. That's why I bent myself into a bloody pretzel shape to facilitate contact. DD bonded with xp and I thought she missed him. It must have been strange for her to suddenly wake up and he wasn't there at 6 months old.

I didn't realise that at 6 months, her memory would be short, and by facilitating contact with a man who isn't interested in DD very much, (although he could fool anyone he loves her to bits) all I actually did was create a situation where my DD knows her daddy well enough to crave his company, well enough to cry for him, she does remember daddy for a very very long time now (think 6+ months at least), talks about him every day and waits by the window for him. sad

I have merely postponed the pain for DD, until she was old enough to understand how much it hurts even more if that makes sense.

If I had my time again, I would let him make the effort, knowing he would probably never take me to court (too expensive) and wait until he had proved himself to be interested in building a relationship with his DD that was consistent and regular, regardless of what else he has on.

I definitely would not take him to court myself. It will not make him stick to contact if he doesn't want to.

Thank you for your stories.

I sat up last night. I've got a old recorder message from before she was born saying abuse to me, pictures of unco operative texts, pictures of character assassination texts, my diary of records regarding contact.
I have my phyciatrist reports, saying I don't have typical PND, I have it mild and am suffering EA, counselling reports, midwife reports asking him to only be involved if I say yes and to keep making checks. Doctors reports (seeing her Wednesday, sobbed down the phone and she's already on the phone to time to talk and maybe CBT)
I could get witness statements more recent up to date too.

They will never take me to court your all right. They want to scare me into doing whet they want. So ill offer contact centres, write up another mutual contract to sign shall I? And see my solicitor again.

Any thoughts? <before I crash>

Whocansay Mon 11-Feb-13 08:49:01

You're still trying to do it for him. Let him arrange the contact centres, etc. But yes, see a solicitor.

littlemisssarcastic Mon 11-Feb-13 09:08:17

What are your main concerns OP?

If you think your DD is better off without your xp in her life at this moment, why would you make any effort at all to arrange contact centres or write up yet another mutual contract for him to sign??

If your main concern is that you don't want him to take you to court, because you fear he will get more contact than you are mutually happy with, he could still take you to court, even with a mutually agreed contact agreement in place, even if he is not sticking to it.

If your main concern is that the court will berate you for not facilitating contact, should he take you to court, that just wont happen. You have offered contact (do you have evidence of this?) and he has declined.

It is up to him to arrange contact and for you to make your DD available for that contact.

What are your main concerns OP?

My main concerns is that he bullies me into doing things so if I go
To court it's in place then.
I don't feel he can look after my DD, she doesn't know him.
I'm scared this could go on for years. Everytime I stop everything and jut breathe that sigh of relief he comes back.
I'm scared that if I text him back with the number of a contact centre and a time he will some how manipulate that to make me look bad should he ever take me to court.
I'm mostly scared that this is going to go on forever unless I go to court because just when I think he's gone and we are safe it's better he's back.
He's wont be dictated to by me. And he doesn't understand the law. I want a end to it, if I go to court, waste my money and he doesn't stick to it- I tried I did it the right way, I have proof and peace of mind I did.
I don't want to see him or hear from him but I cannot explain what he does to me.... I just don't understand it myself. I can feel him dragging me down again, that's no good for DD.
I want Dd to be treated with the respect and care she deserves.

Am I making sense? I just see court as a kind of final thing. Stay and stick or fuck off.
I'm scared I'm going out of my mind. I just want the best for DD and it consumes me. I am a introvert at the best of times.
I am scared of him. I know what he can do. I don't want him keeping coming back. I don't want my 3 year old to not see him for a month then him come back,
I don't want to answer the daddy questions with I don't know I want to answer with I did all I could for you.

littlemisssarcastic Mon 11-Feb-13 09:58:05

I know this may sound like a stupid question, but what is the court going to put in place that will stop him bullying you when you are going for a contact order?

Court ordered contact is not 100% rigid. There will be a few sentences on there that will say something like 'And contact as mutually agreed between the two parties'.

If you don't feel he can look after your DD because she doesn't know him, that doesn't mean the court will agree with you. Courts tend to bend over backwards imo to accommodate fathers who claim they want to see their DC. RP's do not always bend over backwards, but a court will ime.

It could go on for years even if it does go to court. It is not a case of one appearance in court determines 18 years of contact. It can be brought back before court many many times, by either you or your xp, to be adjusted.

If you spend lots of money and take this to court, the court are going to give your xp contact that suits him, contact where he picks up your DD at the door and drops her off again later. More than likely it will be little and often at the moment because of DD's age, but within a year, if he returns the matter to court, they will almost definitely grant him overnight access.
If xp doesn't stick to that court order, it doesn't end there. He or you can return the matter to court, and the court will do whatever they can to facilitate contact between DD and xp again, even if he has failed to stick to the court order, the court will give him many many more chances than most RP's would.

I don't want him keeping coming back. I don't want my 3 year old to not see him for a month then him come back,
A court order will make no difference to whether he does this or not.

If a court grants him access, lets say...saturday 10 - 5 and wednesday 10 - 5 (just as an example), lets say he turns up to collect DD every saturday and wednesday for 5 months, DD builds up a relationship with him, then he disappears off the scene, and doesn't appear for another 6 weeks, when he returns on a saturday or wednesday in the future, he will say 'but we have a court order that is still active so I want to see DD now it suits me.'

By taking it to court, I think you are expecting the court to enforce something they will not enforce, yet your xp will have a further stick to beat you with.

If I was in your situation, honestly, I would tell xp what you are prepared to offer (even if that is nothing at all) and if he is not happy with that, then he needs to deal with that.

Just out of interest, has your xp ever been violent to your DD? Has he ever put her in a position of danger? Do you have evidence to back this up?

littlemisssarcastic Mon 11-Feb-13 10:10:28

I have probably rambled, sorry. blush

I understand exactly what you are saying hmm
He's not been violent towards her but she has been shouted at: what do
You want now! Why won't you just shut up!
But I have no evidence hmm

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 11-Feb-13 10:24:25

Make, if you have been referred for CBT I strongly recommend you go ahead with it. It will help enormously with your thought process and help you shift your focus from him, and your fear of him. The thing that you will need to come to terms with is that unfortunately he is your DD's dad and you have no way to ensure he either steps up and shows willing or stays away all together. You need to find a way of coping with that reality, and I think the CBT will help you with that. Being able to talk this through with someone will also help, along with maybe some medication that will help when you feel at your lowest.

I really think you need to let your mum/dad take over the means of contact and let them tell you when he's made arrangements re contact centre, or just keep you away from the abuse he sends. See a solicitor to get your situation clarified so you know what to expect if he does take you to court and then file that away until it happens. You also need to accept that the daddy questions will happen eventually but the fact he makes no effort is his responsibility not yours. The way to handle difficult questions like that is to reassure your DD just how special and loved she is, and then tell her something close to the truth that she can take in and digest. All you can do with that is manage her possible upset, you can't prevent that and you can't change who her dad is. Accepting that that is your DD's reality and being committed to helping her with that is the job you have to do because your ex behaves this way. I've no doubt that you and your family's love will be enough for her, and will help her come to terms with who and what her dad is, when the time comes.

The way I dealt with my ex disappearing out of DD's life when she was quite small was to fill her days with plenty to do and with people who love her. She sees her dad sporadically now and is content with that as she's got too much going on to wonder about her dad. She doesn't ask for him, she doesn't miss him but goes happily to see him when he remembers she exists. She's old enough to speak up if not happy, and she's never once questioned how things are.

You need to stop worrying about how a grown up or possible teenage DD will react to what you decide now because of your ex's behaviour. What you need to concentrate on is being the best mum you can be, to help your DD grow up loved and secure so that what you think will be a devastating realisation will in all honestly not be the great upset you might think. You are doing all you can and that's without you doing anymore as far as he's concerned. Start believing in yourself as a mum and as the person tasked with being your DD's advocate. Being the one to stand up for your DD means not letting someone who clearly does not care for her the way he should decide how she is treated. That is entirely your job.

Also that I would be happy with in time the over nights etc
What I can deal with is the texting on a tue night asking for wed one week and next week a thurs and when I offered different days being told IAMBU.
I'm going back to college and work in April, that's why I want and need set days and times so I know where we are all at moving forward

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 11-Feb-13 10:40:05

Make, the reality here is that the set days you want are unlikely to happen as your ex knows that's what you want. He revels in making life difficult and if he knows this suits you, he will simply not comply because he's just an arse who thinks its more important to mess you about than it is to be present or consistent with contact. The thing is, when you accept you cannot do a single thing to make him see your DD when it suits, and just get on with raising your DD without his input or presence, you will be much happier in the long run, not worrying if/when he'll turn up. I used to get so wound up and angry with my ex when he just wouldn't agree to set contact up in advance, but it was all wasted energy. He reacted to my anger by just doing it more cos he enjoyed that power. When I finally decided to leave him to it and just get on with things myself, without thinking of or relying on him, the stress lifted off my shoulders. He eventually changed his ways after about 2/3 years of me not giving a shiny shit about what he did or said or thought.

littlemisssarcastic Mon 11-Feb-13 11:00:30

What contact are you prepared to offer your xp for now?

Decide what contact suits you and DD.

littlemisssarcastic Mon 11-Feb-13 11:07:56

Agree with the other posters who say you cannot make him be the dad you want him to be for your DD.

When your DD gets older and asks you why her relationship with her dad is rubbish, the truth is that you can't make him have a good relationship with her. You gave him opportunities and he didn't take them. You have never been against contact, you clearly set out days and times he could see her, and he chose not to.

What more could you have done?

I really think you need to be firm with him.

A shop may only open from 8am - 5pm, but is it the shops fault if you run out of milk and show up at 9pm and they are shut? Of course it isn't. It would be your responsibility to get to the shop in time.
Similarly, if you arrange contact through a contact centre, and the time is 10am-11am and your xp shows up at 5pm, is it the contact centre's fault that he can't see his DD on that day. Of course it isn't, it is his responsibility to get there on time.

You are extremely accommodating to your xp, to your own detriment. He is playing you like a fiddle. Don't jump to his threats or demands.

In a ideal work theoretically this is what I would like:
He works 13 days with 1.5 days a weekend off every other weekend. He also gets one afternoon off per week: from 12.30.
So I would offer contact: 3pm-6pm on that afternoon off, with supervision (mum or contact centre)
The weekend off, Saturday or Sunday mutely agreed 3 hours supervised for 2 months.
So they get to know each other, he can learn her needs and actually feed, change and soothe her. She is just starting weaning which concerns me.
He says he should get her whenever wherever he wants with his mum as she has had 3 children (2 au pairs, no maternity leave).
After the period of two months I'd like it to be unsupervised and I (my family) am willing to drive halfway to drop off and pick up.
Then after this we can mutually increase the hours, and once satisfied, she may go overnights and weekends.
Feel free to make any adjustments. I am wondering if it is worth doing another contact order in writing for him to sign.
The previous one said I was willing to have her alone, this was before I detached myself from wanting him back and wanting to see him. He refused to sign and agree to that and the contact got even more sporadic and hit/miss with the period of not seeing her for five weeks and a month of no contact. Therefore I cannot agree to the previous contact I tried to arrange which he refused to sign. I feel now what I am offering is going right back to the start not only for DDs benefit but his also.
I do not care if his mother brought up the queen, the fact remains that they have not seen her (grandparents) since before Christmas.
I am 2.5 hours away from them If he takes her, which if she is distressed is too far at this moment for a initial visit.

He had the cheek a few weeks ago to ask me her DOB.

Not weeks- months (before Xmas)

flow4 Mon 11-Feb-13 12:32:47

Hi Make, I have ummed and ahhhed about whether to post, but decided I might be useful, so I am posting. smile Just ignore me if I'm not!

I am almost 18 years down the line from where you are - my DS will be 18 this year. So, to start with the best news, one day you will look back on today, and it definitely won't eat you up and tie you in knots and make you feel sh*t, like it does right now. Instead, you will just feel regret - a sort of gentle sadness and a wish that things could have been different.

And you will have a nearly-grown-up daughter who has survived childhood without a dad. And you will have been able to give her everything she needed. Everything. smile

You've said several times that you don't understand why you feel so bad. My own answer was that it was about 'giving up the dream of a happy family'. When I got pregnant, I hoped for a 'happy ever after' - I think most of us do, since it's so ingrained in our culture - and when things went wrong, that dream died. It hurt a lot, and it made me very sad. I'd go so far as to say it was like a bereavement: I mourned the 'death' of the happy family life I'd hoped for for my child and myself. I recognised it, but it still took time, just like any bereavement takes time.

Even though I knew DS's dad was a b*stard who would never be any good for me, it took me a very, very, very long time to get wise to the fact that he would be no good as a father, either. I think this was basically because I loved DS so much that it made absolutely no logical sense to me that his dad wouldn't love him the same: DS was obviously entirely loveable, so of course his dad must love him, I thought - it must just be a matter of me 'fixing' something, or putting the right little something-or-other in place (though I didn't know what it was). That got me stuck into a long, complicated, painful and totally unsuccessful cycle: trying to arrange contact; applying for a contact order (me asking the court to make him see his son - I failed); taking my DS to see him; still taking him hundreds of miles to see him when he moved; me staying overnight in a big city so DS could stay with his dad; paying train fares (when DS was old enough to travel alone), etc...

Just to emphasise: court was not a solution for me. I applied for a contact order because I wanted DS to see his dad, and I wanted him to be able to rely on it. The court did not grant it. They told me no parent could be forced to see a child. They gave him a parental responsibility order because he asked for one (godness knows why; he's never made any kind of use of it) in the same 5 minutes that they declined the contact order and he said he was moving 150 miles away.

And do you know what? Over the years, although his dad made lots of noise about contact - and specifically about how I was stopping it because I wouldn't co-operate enough - he didn't actually make it happen. In 17 years, he has asked to see DS perhaps half a dozen times. Perhaps. sad shock When DS was about 12, and old enough to travel by himself, I stopped doing the running - and contact fizzled out. When DS was about 14, the CSA finally caught up with his dad - who has never paid any maintenance - and he left the country to avoid it. He hasn't seen DS in 4 years, and is in email contact about once a year.

The headline for you is this: if your DD's dad wants to see her, he will make it happen. If he doesn't want to see her, you can't make it happen. Nothing you can do will ever be enough. Nothing. That is painful and upsetting, but I am afraid it is true. You will just tie yourself into years of upset if you keep trying. Please don't repeat my mistake.

However, I will add this... This is the bad new, maybe... Some people are advising you to cut him off and refuse all contact. But sadly, you can't do that. If your DD's dad chooses to apply for a contact order, he will get one; if he asks for contact, you will be expected to co-operate. Cutting him off totally is not an option.

This is one of the main reasons it is so stressful and upsetting for mums like us, IMO: we are locked into some kind of long-term relationship with someone who has treated us like sh*t. With any other kind of relationship, you can walk away and put it totally behind you: but if you have children, you can't walk away. That's really hard, and it is probably one of the main reasons you are so down.

So, what you have to do is develop resilience. You have to break free from him inside your head and emotionally - while still engaging with him regarding your daughter, if and when he engages positively with you - and only then. That's hard, but it's do-able.

It is very, very important for you to find ways of changing the ways you respond to him. You can't change his behaviour, but you can change your reactions to it. You can learn to detach - nothing he says to you or about you important, unless it positively supports your DD and you. You can learn how to recognise that when he (or his mum) tries to make you feel bad, this is their problem, not yours. You can learn to refuse to engage if they are not 'playing nicely'. You can learn to work out what your 'bottom line' is, and stick to it. You can learn to focus on what your DD needs, and what you need, and ignore anything he throws at you that does not meet your needs.

All this takes time, and needs support - which is why counselling and CBT are so useful - but you can do it. Then you will join the ranks of the incredibly strong and confident women, who have survived huge stress and difficulty, and are all the better for it, in the end!

What I have found is that I have a little strand of sadness and irritation - like a thread running through a woven scarf, maybe - that I accept is part of me, and am kind to, and pay attention to, but which does not drive me at all any more. smile

Maybe think of me as a message from your future blush grin... You are already moving forward - you have already applied for a course, which is fantastic! You will look back on this time in years to come, and feel proud of yourself for what you went through, and how you survived, and what you have achieved. I promise you will! You have the best motivation in the world - your DD and yourself! grin

SoftKittyWarmKitty Mon 11-Feb-13 12:36:42

OP, I'm on my phone at the moment so I'll respond more later but just wanted to query about him asking for her DOB. I don't want to overly concern you but does she have a passport? If not, can I just advise you apply for one for her and keep it in a safe place? My concern comes not from the fact that he doesn't know her DOB (which tbh doesn't surprise me) but from the fact he's asking for it in the first place. He has PR, so in theory could request a duplicate BC and apply for her passport. To be fair he seems to thick to think of it but if I were you I'd apply for your DDs passport ASAP yourself, before he does.

Flow- I cannot thank you enough for your post.
Kitty- I'm on it smile

SoftKittyWarmKitty Mon 11-Feb-13 12:51:22

I cross posted with Flow but have to say, what an amazing, inspirational lady. She writes with so much sense, empathy and understanding, which is so positive. My circumstances and the way I've felt over the past nearly seven years are very similar to Flow's but she is a good 11 years ahead of me. Flow, in 11 years' time when my DS turns 18, I hope I can look back and be just as proud of the way I've raised my DS as you are of the way you raised yours. I hope he has a lovely 18th birthday smile.

flow4 Mon 11-Feb-13 13:09:13

Thanks Kitty. blush I don't want to misrepresent myself: it has not always been smooth going, some bits have been extremely hard, and my son is no angel (as anyone who frequents the Teen board will know)... But I guess my point is, when you have a newish baby and are just out of a broken relationship, you can get so caught up in grief and trying to make thing better and fix things...

But actually, you are not broken and your DC is not broken... And the love and energy and power you and your child have between you does not need a father - or anyone - who is not going to give more than he takes. smile

You'll be fine, Make, in the end. You'll be more than fine - you'll be fab!

littlemisssarcastic Mon 11-Feb-13 13:20:52

OP, Am I correct in thinking that your xp has not seen your DD for 28 days now? And that a month has been the longest time he has failed to have contact with DD?
Is it also correct that he has never seen DD in a contact centre, but rather with you supervising?
And he has not been violent towards your DD, or you have no evidence to prove he has been violent?
Also your DD is 5 months old?

Ok, I have read your latest posts, and would like to point out a few things.

"He works 13 days with 1.5 days a weekend off every other weekend. He also gets one afternoon off per week: from 12.30.
So I would offer contact: 3pm-6pm on that afternoon off, with supervision (mum or contact centre)
The weekend off, Saturday or Sunday mutely agreed 3 hours supervised for 2 months."

"After the period of two months I'd like it to be unsupervised and I (my family) am willing to drive halfway to drop off and pick up.
Then after this we can mutually increase the hours, and once satisfied, she may go overnights and weekends.

This sounds ok to me, so long as he gives you a certain amount of notice as to which days/weekends he intends to see DD.

He may still let you down, but as other posters have explained, there's nothing you can do about that.

WRT court, I can virtually guarantee you that if you were to go to court with these proposals, they would agree, but it is very unlikely the court would agree to supervised access if your xp refused to be supervised. Also, why would a court agree to your mum supervising and not his mum?
Does your xp's parents pose a significant risk to your DD?

The way the court will see it is that there is no reason they can see that he cannot have unsupervised access.
Contact centres are not often used as a long term arrangements unless there is a very real risk of danger to a child, according to the court.
Contact centres do not usually offer you the days or times you want, although they do try to accommodate you, and they only offer between 1 and 3 hours of contact.

If there is no risk of danger to your DD, I think a court would refuse to order contact centre contact based on the fact that you don't feel your xp is capable of looking after DD to your satisfaction.

You say "I do not care if his mother brought up the queen, the fact remains that they have not seen her (grandparents) since before Christmas."

A court will not refuse your xp contact at his parents based on the fact that they haven't seen her since before xmas. They will more than likely see it that your xp is capable of looking after your DD unsupervised at his parents house for the contact times, unless his parents pose a real danger to your DD.

Just another reason to try to resolve this without the courts intervention imo.

FWIW, I think if you go down the court road, you will end up with a court order that pretty much gives your xp what he is asking.

Unless I have missed something, I cannot see a court agreeing to supervised access based on no violence, a month maximum of xp not seeing DD, and grandparents not supervising because they haven't seen DD since before xmas.

Don't even think about taking this to court OP.
Tell xp what you are prepared to offer, and wait to see what happens then. I certainly wouldn't be rushing to have someone completely unemotionally involved a judge decide when xp sees DD, where, and with whom present.

Out of interest, do you know why xp hasn't taken DD to see his parents since before xmas?

littlemisssarcastic Mon 11-Feb-13 13:22:57

I'm sorry if that is not what you want to hear OP, but I really don't want you to jump from the frying pan into the fire IYSWIM by taking a matter to court that doesn't benefit you or your DD at all, yet greatly benefits your xp.

Flow your story amazes me.

He hasn't seen DD since Jan 5th. He hasn't taken DD to see his parents as he went against my wishes- the 3.5 out of 4 hours in a car which were not in the arrangements I ha agreed to. He also doesn't have unsupervised contact with DD as of yet as I do not feel he is capable as the times he sees her with me he doesn't/won't change a nappy, gets snappy when she is a messy eater and gives her back when she cries. The one time he did have her alone she was not IMO satisfactory looked after:
*he asked me to get her ready for bed when I left.
* in the 5 hours I had gone, she had had no nappy changed, her baby gro and sleeping bag taken off as she was sick, but not replaced.
* was in a travel cot in another room, both doors shut.
* no heating on.
* one blanket thin, in just a short sleeve vest.
* hungry and tearful.

I felt as a mother this didn't fill me full of confidence having to give DD a whole bottle when I got back. He did not know how long I would be! And had sent messages saying she was fine. IMO she was not fine.
The line I keep getting is babies get upset they scream worries me. I have a very happy baby.
In fact when I did all the driving to his parents, I got stuck on very bad traffic once. When I did arrive, all he wanted to do is show her off to the family!!!! And his parents she needed a feed and a change and he wouldn't do either.
Obviously when she started crying- she was hastily passed back to me,
Who changed her while he socialised. Who then grabbed her off me too feed her whilst wandering around. I was trying to be on good terms with them so during the night he slept on the floor, in our room. She woke in the night, he got stroppy going for gods sake stupid baby shut up etc! And I ended up doing it.

But I have no evidence, and this can't can't continue. What I need is to know what I do?

littlemisssarcastic Mon 11-Feb-13 15:02:44

I sympathise with you OP.
I am just trying to explain how a court will view this. It is not my own personal opinion.
The way the court will view this will not be the way you see things.
This is why I am strongly advising you not to go down the court process.
If your xp decides to take the matter to court, that is something you will have to deal with when or if that happens.
In the meantime, I would offer him the contact you have detailed. Email it to him in a matter of fact way and keep copies.

Try to refrain from putting anything in an email to him that a court would think is unreasonable, because if he does decide to take this matter to court, the court will want to see that you have not acted in a 'hostile' manner.

The court do not take kindly to 'hostile mothers' imvho.

catinboots Mon 11-Feb-13 15:40:16

Hi make.

I agree with littlemiss.

The courts won't listen to he said she said. Or your version of events. They cannot take your word over his without evidence.

They will make a decision based on the facts and the request your XP has made.

Thank you for your sound advice smile I can see your point entirely. I'm going to meet with my solicitor on Friday and hopefully that will help both parties to come to an agreement. Without court. What do you think?

WhereTheWildOnesSnow Mon 11-Feb-13 16:59:24

Hi OP, I am in the middle stage of this now between you and Flow lol. My DD is 9 and her dad has never been a constant in her life, he goes through a couple of months where he will want fortnightly contact to no contact for months on end. In her whole life he has only had her overnight on his own twice and that was last year.

Even at her young age she sadly realises that she cannot rely on her real dad, luckily my DH has been a "father" to her for almost 9 years and he is there for her always. DD is not bothered with seeing her real dad, it doesn't upset her when he disappears.

As it stand the last time she saw him was 27th December, not even a phone call since, and he only lives a 10 minute drive away so not far to travel.

My DD is a happy, well balanced girl. Her dad being useless doesn't seem to have affected her, she know me and her step dad are there for her always.

I feel really sad reading your posts as you sound like you have been struggling and I takes me back to where I was all those years ago, as another poster said you cannot make someone be a father, all you can do is be the best mother you can and try to always put the child's best interests first. There is light at the end of the tunnel, I am very happily married now with DD and a DS and we are all the family she needs. Her father is the one who has missed out, so that's his loss.

Sorry it's so long but just wanted to give you hope and I got carried away!

The worst thing is we were two people who I thought loved each other very much.

Just had a email asking if 'I can do X afternoon' it's more than 36 hours notice.
What do I do?

And his parents.
See they are trying to make me send her alone to intimidate me confusedconfused

anonacfr Mon 11-Feb-13 19:54:44

Don't send her alone. After everything you've written she can't be alone with him.

She can't.
I don't want them in my home it's my home, our home, our safe place.
Shall I meet them with my mum somewhere?

littlemisssarcastic Mon 11-Feb-13 20:06:51

Does the day and time suit you?
If it does, and you are happy to do this, say yes.

Personally, I would make it clear that you are prepared to give it one more go, and explain that a father who dips in and out of a child's life is worse than a father who disappears for good and then if you want to, give your xp one more chance.

Of course this is only what I would do. No one can make the decision as to whether you are happy with this or not, but you.

I would meet them somewhere which is approx halfway from yours to theirs, and ask them to come halfway too.

Up to what suits you and dd.

anonacfr Mon 11-Feb-13 20:08:51

If you feel you have to accommodate him then yes. Have your mum and dad with you as support, set a time and place (cafe, restaurant) and if it's not suitable for him then tough.
Good luck. sad

Can you get any legal advice btw?

They want to come down here. Do I meet them with mum. I don't let her go alone do I? And I explain with my mum that if he sees her regularly on a regular basis with me we can review it and I am happy for her
To go for days?

anonacfr Mon 11-Feb-13 20:10:24

Make sure everything is on your terms. You have to protect yourself and of course your DD. she's an innocent baby, she has her routine and it comes before his stupid mind games.

anonacfr Mon 11-Feb-13 20:15:05

Don't let them come anywhere near your house!
If they're coming to you go for a public place- if you feel they will try to intimidate you and your mum bring your dad too.

Don't talk about future contact! Let him talk first- if he mentions it say you want a proper arrangement for supervised contact where you live (she's little and can't travel too much yet). She's not a toy for him to play with when he feels like it! Don't talk about reviewing anything until there's been more contact and it's all gone well.
Just stay as non-committal as possible. You don't want to stop contact but you need to make sure he's genuine and it's not all mind games.

Temember what he's put you through, he's not a nice person and you don't owe him anything.

I know it's a game a stupid game at my daughters expense

GregBishopsBottomBitch Mon 11-Feb-13 20:48:48

Your the mum, the RP, you make the rules, what you say goes, if they dont like it, then they can only blame themselves.

I would get this official, so he cant play silly twunts.

I said Thursday is fine.
We start arranging details, he scares me about his parents.
I mention mum is going. No reply.
So now all I am going to bed knowing is Thursday!!

SoftKittyWarmKitty Mon 11-Feb-13 21:30:32

Just make sure you're mum, at least, is going. When you make the arrangements make them for somewhere you and your DD will be comfortable such as a nice cafe or soft play. Don't have them to the house because if you want to end the visit you can't leave - you have to get them to leave. Don't leave your DD alone with him/them because this is a supervised visit, as offered by you several times, so don't let them pressure you into deviating from this.

This visit has to be on your terms, not his/theirs. You hold the power, you call the shots.

I don't think he will contact me now until the eve of day before. Now he knows mum is coming.

anonacfr Mon 11-Feb-13 22:46:03

Just to be on the safe side is there any way you could have someone else there as well- to keep tabs of how things are going?

Remember your rules. He doesn't like it, visit off!

flow4 Mon 11-Feb-13 23:47:11

Make, I know you don't feel like it at all, but you have the power and control in this situation:

- You have your daughter.
- You decide where to meet - definitely in a public, neutral place (like a soft play place)
- You bring whoever you like with you - at least your mum - don't meet him alone.
- He has suggested a day and time - but you can say no if it doesn't suit (but only say no if it really doesn't suit, not to 'play games')

With hindsight, I can see that my DS's dad felt quite powerless and a lot of his arseyness and nastiness was a reaction to this - attempts to make himself feel better. I'd bet good money that your Ex feels the same. It might help to bear this in mind when you're dealing with him...

It's ironic really: we feel powerless and vulnerable... And they do too!

I'm not sure who else could come but
I feel safe with mum.
Since I said mum was coming he hasn't answered so do I send a text saying 'is x time and place okay?' Or do I ignore it and let him wind me up by emailing the night before?

flow4 Tue 12-Feb-13 08:34:42

Ideally, you ignore it and don't let him wind you up the night before! grin

If you text him that Q, you are giving him another (perhaps bigger) opportunity to wind you up again, by not answering.

If you really, really feel you need to send something, try "Ok then, X time, Y place. Pls confirm by end of today".

Don't ask Qs, don't explain, don't mention your mum or give unnecessary details. Detach! smile

Be prepared for the fact that he still may not answer. If he doesn't confirm, you're free to make other arrangements, if anything else comes up. smile

Thank you flow.
I know he's doing it on purpose. I just do not get the point, that's not really thinking of DD. it's trying to get to me, it's not about me it's about DD!

flow4 Tue 12-Feb-13 09:46:31

I know. It makes no sense. Or at least it makes no sense to any sensible person!

Detach, detach, detach! Remember you cannot control how he behaves: if he's an arse, there is nothing you can do about it. But you can control your reactions : you can learn to say to yourself "Oh, he's trying to wind me up there. Silly man. Well, that's not going to work!"

IMO, he's fighting to assert himself because he feels out of control, and though it feels like he's trying to get at you, really it's not about you or your DD, it's all about him. Emotionally, he is behaving rather like a spoilt child who wants the toy, and you are the mean grown-up (or just the glass cabinet hmm ) who is stopping him from having what he wants. He is not thinking of your DD as some one, but as some thing. He might - just - be thinking of you as some one, but you're someone who is stopping him from having what he wants. And even worse, wink he thought you were someone who was no problem, someone he could boss about, someone who would do whatever he wanted - but now you're standing up to him, and he finds that confusing and infuriating!

So, this week... Make your plan. Decide how the visit needs to be/go for your DD to enjoy it, and for you to stand it. Discuss it all with your mum. Stick to it. If he emails you a load of unnecessary detail and orders and rudeness today or tomorrow, just ignore him. If he says "This is going to happen" or "That isn't going to happen", just ignore it. It's just noise!

You must focus on detaching and not reacting to his bad behaviour, because the chances are, he is going to behave badly for a lonnnng time. hmm There is nothing that you can do that will make him behave better; he has to make himself... And meanwhile, you just have to tap your fingers and twiddle your thumbs and wait for him to grow up stay calm and look after your DD and yourself.

anonacfr Tue 12-Feb-13 09:53:45

Exactly. Just say 'this time/place works for us, see you then' and then leave it. Don't ask him if it's ok, if he really genuinely wanted to see his daughter nothing would stop him.
If he comes up with shitty 'I can't make it' arguments then tell him what a shame let's re-arrange at a later date and leave it at that.

Be strong!!!!

Well I've still not heard a thing so if I haven't heard by say 7pm I'm assuming they won't want to meet halfway (see what I did-I offered to show I'm reasonable) I shall text mother and email son saying x time x place with the postcode of the place

Sound okay?

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Tue 12-Feb-13 13:02:44

Remember to add something requiring their agreement or acknowledgement so if they fail to agree by say tomorrow or 9pm tonight you make alternative arrangements. Keeps you right and means your mum isn't kept hanging as well as you.

Exactly wink

flow4 Tue 12-Feb-13 13:18:15

Yes, so long as the place you choose is local to you and somewhere you would enjoy visiting with DD anyway, because I'm afraid there is a chance he won't turn up. (This seems to be part of the 'pattern'; I lost count of the times DS's dad didn't turn up or broke/changed arrangements).

If I were you, I wouldn't put too much energy into trying to show/prove you're reasonable. For a start, you are being reasonable - you don't need to prove it. But also nothing you do will satisfy him (IMO because fundamentally he wants total control and he doesn't/can't have it) - and you'll be left feeling even worse when you've bent over backwards to be helpful, and he's still angry and dissatisfied.

It is beyond reasonable to travel all that way to meet a man who hasn't made any effort himself. If he was already making arrangements to see your son - if he had 'shown willing' at all - then it would be kind and reasonable to meet him half way. But doing it now is too much.

Tbh I'd stop making any offers for now. Let him do the running. If he makes a request, decide whether it suits your DD/you, and if not, then you can offer something slightly different that does. But for now, don't take the initiative... Once you know he really does want to see your DD, and isn't just playing games, then you can start to give more. Right now, you need to learn to give less!

Do you know what flow, I've always been that person the outgoing one. The one that does things to suit others, the one that's upset but says nothing, the one at everyone's beck and call.
No more.
They are both getting a message saying x place x time I'm not even asking if its suitable and you know if they don't turn up me and my mum will have a nice lunch!!
Now soft play or nice lunch/restaurant.
They will hate hate hate soft play and I can't see them playing with DD. so I'm thinking nice pub restaurant. There's a pub close to my home one of those table table ones or there is one on the beach (nice walk etc)
Also taking two cars so I can leave if it gets too much.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Tue 12-Feb-13 14:17:41

Make Good, trying to please these idiots gets you and your DD nothing anyway, state where your gonna be if they dont turn up, then you wont be offering again.

anonacfr Tue 12-Feb-13 14:18:46

Didn't he say he was coming to you? Pub lunch sounds perfect. I would avoid walk etc.
If they're no happy with the arrangement their loss.
If it does get too much by all means leave. Try not to stress waiting for an answer though. You know he'll wait to the last minute so that he can play his mind games.

He is coming this way but all I know right now since last night is X afternoon. Wonderful smile

I have tried making arrangements for X to arrange a place/book table etc with no feedback. Me, DD & mum will be at X at 3.30. I assume that shall suit everyone, the postcode is X. Confirmation would be good.

Is that ok?

SoftKittyWarmKitty Tue 12-Feb-13 16:48:36

It's good but 'confirmation would be good' is a bit wishy-washy, plus if you and your mum are going there anyway to eat (as you said previously) it doesn't matter a huge amount if he doesn't turn up, so I'd leave that bit out altogether and make it more direct. I also dont think the first sentence is necessary and might just serve to get his back up, which you don't want. Maybe tweak to something like: 'For your access visit on Thursday afternoon Me, DD & mum will be at X at 3.30 until 5pm (or whatever time you plan to leave). The postcode is x. See you there.'

SoftKittyWarmKitty Tue 12-Feb-13 16:53:20

Forgot to say the reason for putting a leaving time is two fold. One, it stops him from turning up half an hour after you give up and go home, then claiming you didn't turn up. Two, it tells him that at 5pm the access visit will end, so you can get DD home and ready for bed or whatever, so he doesn't throw a wobbler as you get up to leave. Time limits help each party know exactly where they stand.

anonacfr Tue 12-Feb-13 17:06:50

I would scrap the first sentence- he'll just say it sounds passive aggressive. Last is indeed wimpy.

Soft's message is perfect. Add the full address, maybe a 'see you then' and that's it.
If he then decides to throw a tantrum and tells you he can't make it after all just reply 'shame, give me a date that works for you and I will check to see if it is convenient for us'.

Let him do the work! You have gone through hell and are doing an amazing job looking after your little one. If he wants to stay in her life he has to do something. You've got enough on your plate.

Thanks kitty Got a rather blunt message back 'I will discuss it with twunt' twunts mum

ProphetOfDoom Tue 12-Feb-13 17:12:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FiercePanda Tue 12-Feb-13 17:33:07

You've made a reasonable offer, twunt knows where you and DD will be. If he throws a tantrum or if he or his mum try to change the time or location, be firm and repeat "Arranged that DD and I will be at X until 5pm for your access visit. This is the postcode. See you then." You have to detach and be firm - you are DD's mum, you are in charge. You're not a child to be shouted at and controlled - you are a mother, you are her mother, and if twunt wants to see DD it has to be convenient and agreed to by you.

flow4 Tue 12-Feb-13 17:47:24

OK, so far so good. smile Well, how much time have you and your mum got free? I'd suggest you text tomorrow saying something like "Me and mum have booked a table at X for 12:30 (or whenever) if you'd like to book for the same time. We may go for a walk afterwards. We're free til 3pm." That makes your limits clear... Then if he wants to play silly buggers and be late, that's up to him. Or if he texts to ask to meet a bit earlier/later, then you can change the booking if that's OK with you too.

Generally, I find the 'trick' is to be as straightforward as possible - to behave as if you and your mum had arranged a trip out and a friend had asked if they could come along - you'd exchange details, see if you could fit them in, but not bend over backwards if they couldn't fit with your plans... grin If you just stick to straightforward, calm facts, then any knots and difficulties are his problem.

flow4 Tue 12-Feb-13 17:47:58

Oops, I spent so long writing that I've cross-posted with loads of people! Sorry. blush

Thank you all smile

Just got a email off him saying where is X place and why is your mum coming?

SoftKittyWarmKitty Tue 12-Feb-13 19:03:36

Just reply with the full address and suggest he googles if he's unsure where it is. Again, end with 'See you there.' Don't even mention your mum. It's none of his business so don't respond on that point. All he should be bothered about is the fact he's going to see DD, not who else is there.

Thank you smile

anonacfr Tue 12-Feb-13 19:07:15

Can't he google it? What a tosser. He really is trying to assert his authority isn't he?

ProphetOfDoom Tue 12-Feb-13 19:08:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Tue 12-Feb-13 19:09:29

Its none of his business why shes coming, just treat it like a business deal, clinical and straight to the point, the address, he can look it up.

ProphetOfDoom Tue 12-Feb-13 19:13:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

He's something else isn't he?
There was a thread a while ago about why people have children with boys twats like this?
Well I had absolutely no idea he was like this, I truely thought I'd met my life partner. I had never been aware one person could inflict some damage on others. Until the end- when several of his exes got in touch wanting to meet and talk about how they ended in counselling and had looked into narcissistic partners. Needless to say I didn't, but I've been left speechless since.
As you can see from this thread I'm very up and down but I am alot better than I was, and yes as one of you asked I was pickles.
It's thanks to the strength you women give with your support and advice that I am actually still standing, and my little girl. That is no joke.
It's so sad to say there have been times when I have wanted me dd and the dog to crash in the car so we can all be together in peace.
Now I realise that's a cop out, there's more to life than this and we haven't lived our life yet nor can we see our future. We are still to do it.
I can only do that by being strong for all of us, I may crumble at points but I am human, worse things happen to people.
I can beat this and I will. It's not a game, he can hurt me but they will not emotionally scar my DD. I've worked too hard to get this far, and I shall keep going.
Thank you ladies, I truely mean that.

anonacfr Tue 12-Feb-13 19:33:13

Gosh I remember your old thread. You are so brave after everything he put you through. You should be so proud of yourself your DD has one amazing mother.

There's no choice but to keep going shock

And think of the lucky escape you've had! If he had been your life partner, and you were married to this excuse for a man. Gah!

I do agree that calm, detatched repetition of the facts is the way forward. What SoftKitty said, up there ^

catinboots Wed 13-Feb-13 04:32:02

Sorry not around much the lat couple of days Make but been busy in RL

(((Cuddle))) for tomorrow

I'll be thinking of you

Imagine the life I would have had!
It's tommorow the thought is making me feel a mix of confusedangry and sick!

Had a message asking if we're still okay tomo. Why am I thinking that he genuinly thinks its me that's been unreasonable?! This thread has told and reassured me I haven't!

littlemisssarcastic Wed 13-Feb-13 20:10:20

Of course he thinks you ABU, he probably thinks his parenting skills are adequate, if not good and that he doesn't need to be supervised to see DD.
He probably wonders why you are not letting him see DD unsupervised, at his parents and believes that you are being malicious, trying to stop him seeing his DD.
He probably thinks you are doing this because you are upset about your relationship ending and you are insisting on supervising because you want to spend time with him.
For whatever reason, he wants to see DD, and he is finding that it is not as straight forward and easy as he thought it would be.
Of course he thinks YABU.

If he thought you were being perfectly reasonable, he would have to look at his own behaviour to ascertain why he wasn't seeing his DD unsupervised, and I don't suppose that is a thought he wishes to contemplate tbh.

ProphetOfDoom Wed 13-Feb-13 20:12:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

That made me laugh!! Thank you!

GregBishopsBottomBitch Wed 13-Feb-13 20:26:46

Hes like a bloody kid trying to get one of his parents, "Are we still ok for 2moro" = "I wonder if shes backed down yet"

That's what I think. I wonder if its dawning on him now? I doubt it but one can wonder. Not wasting too much time though.
I wonder if he's 'shittingblue lights' regarding my mum coming. As she puts it wink

littlemisssarcastic Wed 13-Feb-13 20:36:51

It is very sad that he has more respect for your mum than he has for the mother of his child. sad

Do you really think he is shitting himself about your mum going?

I'm glad your mum can be there with you tomorrow. What does your mum think of him?

GregBishopsBottomBitch Wed 13-Feb-13 20:42:34

Hes probably annoyed at mum going, because Make probably feels alot bolder and less able to be closed down with support, he was probably hoping she'd be on her own so he can bully her.

I'm hopeful he's shutting himself but I doubt it very much.
Yes it's so sad about the respect. My parents always thought there was something about him, but have given him the benefit of the doubt in and out of our relationship.
My mum is trained along time ago in body language and sociology and things so she's always read him like a book. Sadly when your children are happy you don't say do you?
But we wouldn't have gorgeous DD, nor would I have listened.
I think he's more worried about mum coming as I am more protected Nd can't be backed into a corner nor told lies etc.
I am taking two cars so that if it gets too much I can leave but DD is still with someone she knows/trusts - and someone that knows her routine and too look after her. Ill go and get my dog from training, but they need not know that.

littlemisssarcastic Wed 13-Feb-13 20:56:31

Make If it gets too much, and you feel you need to leave, I think it would be best if you took DD with you, rather than left her with your mum, your xp and his parents.

Ahh glad you brought that up as its something that's bothering me if I'm honest.
I'm just going to sit it out. Can I read my disarming the narcissist I mean a nice romcom chick lit in the corner whilst having all the flowers arriving for me for valentines to my table?
<keeps dreaming>

littlemisssarcastic Wed 13-Feb-13 21:05:56

I think it would be best to sit it out. You don't want to be going off somewhere and returning to find your xp has taken DD back to his parents without your knowledge, and your mum is just sitting there on her own. sad

Oh no they would never be taking her away but you are right smile

flow4 Wed 13-Feb-13 21:27:49

I'm off to bed Make, but I just wanted to pop in and say good luck for tomorrow. smile
This time tomorrow, you'll know you can handle this! grin

That's very kind and means alot to us, have a nice sleep smile

ProphetOfDoom Wed 13-Feb-13 21:35:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Well the solicitors fri morning for advice as this can't go on.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Wed 13-Feb-13 22:13:26

Make just wishing you luck for tomorrow. I'll be at work but will be thinking about you and look forward to an update later tomorrow.

Be aware that he is likely to ask you for another visit as he'll think you'll be intimidated and won't refuse if he's there in front of you. As you're meeting the solicitor on Friday, just say something along the lines of 'I can't commit to that day yet, I need to check our diary so will let you know.' If he pushes, just repeat and throw in a possible baby clinic or HV visit as the reason why you will have to confirm later on.

Don't tell him you're seeing a solicitor whatever you do - he may get aggravated at that. I'm glad you're seeing one though - make sure you write a list of things you want to ask and tell them everything - write it all down if it's easier. Don't forget to inform them how he screamed at your DD to shut up etc as it gives an insight into his temperament and tells them why you want supervised access for now.

Good luck!

Thank you kitty.
I have now been up since 4am. I just cant sleep, nothing on my mind.
I'm willing DD to wake up for cuddles and playing (see I'm feeling strange)

anonacfr Thu 14-Feb-13 08:43:21

Good luck for today! Keep strong and don't let him bullshit you. Good to hear about your mum will have your back - she sounds like a v shrewd lady.

Hope today all pans out for you MakeIt. Plenty of people here have offered excellent advice so I'm just going to gently cheer you on!

BambieO Thu 14-Feb-13 09:10:09

Good luck flowers

It's lovely that you have thought of me this morning I'm touched. I'm keeping busy for the moment.
Trying to keep my humour up can I go dressed as vicki pollard as the are very middle/upper class smile

Argh! They are going to be late now.

anonacfr Thu 14-Feb-13 14:27:26

Who cares? Don't let it get to you try to enjoy the day with your mum and DD.

catinboots Thu 14-Feb-13 18:41:29

How did it go Make?

There was no conflict. They were over a hour late. With no apology. He did not say a word no hello, no goodbye.
Wouldn't change her nappy, did feed her. It got to 5.45 and his parents were being really nice so we offered them a extra half hour and he said he didn't want to- to just take her.
No conflict though.
My heart is still beating like a drum, but my mum is very proud of me.
Dd didn't let me down and smiles are reserved for me and my mum only ( oh and a waiter!)

catinboots Thu 14-Feb-13 19:11:33

Well done you


Thank you smile couldn't have done it without your support

Well done you! <waves pompoms>

He's still a tit!

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Thu 14-Feb-13 19:16:23

smile Well done make, that was brilliant. You could not have done more or showed better how willing you are to make the relationship your ex has with your DD possible. Everything else now falls to him, and if it fails? He only has himself to blame.

Your mum is right, we are all proud of you too flowers

anonacfr Thu 14-Feb-13 19:16:33

Well done!!!!

What an arsehole. It sounds like the visit was for his parents's benefit rather than his. Oh well. His loss.

He just sat staring at the floor.
Mum us having a rant now. They didn't ask one question about DD. like what does she eat? How does she sleep? Etc

ProphetOfDoom Thu 14-Feb-13 19:28:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Thu 14-Feb-13 19:39:33

He sounds like an immature twat. Just think, you have shown how reasonable you are, how capable you are, and how amazing your DD is. And he's shown himself up to be a sulky immature overgrown kevin teenager who says he's capable of taking care of your DD on his own, but has shown the exact opposite by not interacting or communicating with you, the mother (main source of important info that would help him learn how to take care of her), refusing to change her nappy, turning down the extra time, all the while his parents sit there and see this for themselves no doubt excusing him as they'll have probably done for years. Just know that any further digs that might come your way are not because there is any basis in truth in them - it's because he is an inadequte individual who is threatened by your strength, and the only way he (and his 'lovely' mother) can deal with that is to try and bully you. Stand tall Make, you are a fantastic mum, and your DD is a lucky wee girl to have you stand up for her.

flow4 Thu 14-Feb-13 20:00:05

Yeeeeeee-HA! :D
Well done Make!
And what a plonker! grin

Bunch- your words speak so much truth. We got through it, we are now not sure whether to waste 90 on a solicitor tommorow when they have acted in such a way.
I think is absolutely pointless, especially when I am getting stronger every day.
I can honestly say I looked at him today and I pitied him. He cannot see what he is missing out on due to his selfish ways. He doesn't want DD, it's for show.
We can't help thinking he is even moodier and twattish than normal as the fool accidently arranged to see us valentines day, thus ruining his plans. Then when he realise I am serious about contact couldn't drop DD.

Ark that felt good smile

Whocansay Thu 14-Feb-13 20:26:54

Good for you OP! He was probably just disappointed that your mum was there so he couldn't berate and bully you. Diddums!

poodletip Thu 14-Feb-13 20:39:58

Well done, lovely to hear you sound so strong.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Thu 14-Feb-13 21:07:30

We can't help thinking he is even moodier and twattish than normal as the fool accidently arranged to see us valentines day, thus ruining his plans.

grin Make, that made me guffaw. What a muppet he is! Happy Valentine's Day to your ex twunt. flowers grin

We found it hilarious too.
Bet his new gf was so chuffed about where he was the doughnut!
I am so better off without him, looked at him today and have given myself a very good talking too about future men.
On the plus side, the dog and DD did me a valentines card- silly mum made them both sign it!
White wine, candles, Chinese and a bath- with the dog smile disclaimer: pooch laid on warm towel at side grin

SoftKittyWarmKitty Thu 14-Feb-13 21:18:48

Make it sounds like it went perfectly. I had a feeling they'd be late, and he sounds next to useless. After all his posturing about wanting access on a day he chooses, when and where he chooses, I'm sorry to say that it appears he clearly doesn't really want to see her. All the bluster about wanting access is just a way of trying to control you and mess with your head. He now knows you're onto him and you're now in control. I can't believe he didn't even interact with her! Well I can, but you know what I mean. Quite telling that he didn't want to extend the visit when you kindly offered.

Today goes to show just how strong you are. Your mum and DD are right to be proud of you. If he asks for access again, just do the same thing and treat it as a business transaction where you're in control. He knows he can no longer bully you. The balance of power has shifted. Well done!

GregBishopsBottomBitch Thu 14-Feb-13 21:41:08

Ahhhhh Make they've made it easier to not bother with contact again, if he cant make the effort, why should you, your DD probably doesnt even know who he is.

Yes your so right! What a complete tool. My mum is now telling my dad all about it- using a few choice words.

He's just emailed to tell us that he is home safe. His message consists of 3 words- he should go on the 3 word day thread. I home safe.
I could start a two word thread: beginning with F!shock

GregBishopsBottomBitch Thu 14-Feb-13 21:50:06

Wow Make, hes home safe, you musta been holding your breath til you got that vital info.

Jeez, what a knobhead.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Thu 14-Feb-13 21:58:11

God, he's such a nobber. I mean, like you care! What he should have put is 'Are you and DD home safe?'. Fucking twat.

Don't respond to that email. He's trying to draw you in. Do not engage. Remember it's a business transaction - only respond if it's to do with DD or to arrange contact, and even then, ensure your words are civil but unemotional.

Hope you and the dog enjoyed your bath grin.

I can rest easy tonight.
I had to come on and tell you all because let's face it.... You were worried, weren't you?!
I have obviously been checking travel updates to check they are okay as I had so much spare time on my hands <rolling eyes emoticon>

flow4 Thu 14-Feb-13 22:09:53

Frankly, I have been worrying all afternoon. I'm soooo glad you told us, because I don't think I could've slept, if I hadn't realised He Home Safe. hmm

Fuckinell... He's got an ego the size of a planet, innit?! grin

ProphetOfDoom Thu 14-Feb-13 22:15:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Thu 14-Feb-13 22:22:27

Men eh, with all that Peter Pan shit going on, the boy that never grew up, well its not just a fucking disney film is it.

I think the whole pantomime act just proved they aren't from the real world. They just see my DD as a object, not a person.
Anyone want a sweepstake on when we will next hear anything from any of them?

diddl Fri 15-Feb-13 08:17:32

"I home safe"??!!


CruCru Fri 15-Feb-13 08:29:40

Hey Make, delurking - sounds like you did a good job yesterday. Let us know how it goes at the solicitor.

Thank you crucru and diddl.

Diddl- such a broad vocabulary, his folks would be so so impressed. I mean wow. Still that's 3 more words than he said when we were there!!

Rang up today about my CSA case. Seems they have left 3 voicemails, 2 letters, two calls to his employer, now a letter.
that didn't get mentioned yesterday

littlemisssarcastic Sat 16-Feb-13 10:55:10

How did your meeting go with your solicitor?

It wasnt too bad but didn't fill me full of confidence. Going to try a letter first explaining regular supervised contact for two months then he can start having her alone.
I don't think it will work and the solicitor seems to think it will end up at court.
I've just been left a email stating I'm a money grabbing bitch that stops him seeing his child.
So I'm on a serious wobble and come down day! confused Junk food, swimming with DD and a duvet day for us.
I never ever stopped him seeing her or said he couldn't see her. I feel so sad again that it's come to this.
On the plus side I am getting out more socially. Playgroup, swimming, a baby shower and a meal tomo night. Been asked on a date but no chance of that.
Me, DD and our dog will do.
Thanks for asking how it went

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sat 16-Feb-13 12:43:08

Make, remember what I said about the digs? He's trying to undermine your strength, and you are not going to let him ok? You know what he says is lies, so ignore it. Leave the money bit to the CSA and the communication to your lawyer. And then enjoy your DD as she's worth your energy, not him.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Sat 16-Feb-13 13:26:48

Well you know that's not true, don't you? You want him to be part of your DDs life and took her to see him two days ago, a visit during which he didn't interact with DD or ask about her, and turned down the opportunity to spend an extra half an hour with her. You've seen a solicitor in an effort to encourage him to see her regularly.

With regard to the CSA, you are entitled to financial contributions from your DDs other parent. That money is to help you raise her.

Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

Your right, I'm letting him creep back under my skin.
Going to have a stern word with myself grin

anonacfr Sat 16-Feb-13 18:05:17

He sent you that message because he realised he was acting like a twat (late, not looking at you, not talking, refusing to change his daughter's nappy) and he's trying to -write history.
How can he be expected to get unsupervised access to his child if he can't provid basic care for her?

Ignore the tosser. Carry on as planned and don't give him anything.

flow4 Sat 16-Feb-13 19:18:26

I know how hard those digs can feel, but they are rubbish - just designed to make you feel bad, like bunch says - or just the kind of nonsense noise I talked about in my first post.

DS's dad used to tell people I was stopping him from seeing DS - he may even have believed his own lies, I think, cos he told the solicitor and DS. sad In fact, there was one single instance when I did stop him taking DS for 4 hours - when he turned up 24hrs late, after Glastonbury festival, still drunk - and fell over onto my coffee table and broke it. angry I refused to let him take DS (who was 3) when he was in that state, and told him to go off and sober up, and I'd decide whether I thought he was safe when he came back. He did not like it, and never forgave me, and used it against me when he could. It wasn't about truth - it was about revenge for me saying 'no'.

It's just the same with your Ex. Don't let the silly fool get to you! grin

Well, Softkitty summed up what I was going to say, as did anon.

Just remain factual, concise and detached. You have the moral high-ground, whilst he is the tosser dirty rascal. grin

Thank you for picking me up ladies.
I think flow hit the nail on the head, I believe he is so warped he believes his own lies shock
Still as long as DD is safe, in her own bed, not knowing any of this it's okay. We will muddle along for now, I'm becoming a bit of a master at the fake cheerful fun mum act and having a meltdown when she sleeps.
This turns into a weep when I look at her and realise how proud I am of how we are managing smile
Don't think it helped dad returned home this weekend and I had to give a full rundown with mum.
Cue lots of nasty words from dad about twunt.

I've just been asked if I will go up to his parents on Wednesday?

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 17-Feb-13 17:53:03

Who has asked? Him or his parents?

He emailed...shock

GregBishopsBottomBitch Sun 17-Feb-13 18:14:13

Say that depends, are you gonna speak and atleast pretend you care about DD, maybe even...... SHOCK HORROR....change her nappy.

CremeEggThief Sun 17-Feb-13 18:22:04

Does it suit you to take her there? Do you feel he can be trusted to care for her properly? If the answers are 'no', then your reply should also be 'no'.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 17-Feb-13 18:27:44

Personally, I think while your DD is small I would respectfully decline. You need to be careful of setting a precedent whereby he establishes you can travel to him for contact, and then accuses you of blocking contact where you find that commitment too much. It's up to him to make the effort, and one 2 hr meet up where he behaved like a sulky teenager isn't enough to suggest he's actually interested in your DD but more likely to get you do do more for him to see DD. I would suggest to him you'll discuss alternative arrangements re contact after the 2 mth period he shows willing to see your DD and interact with her, and also stops the abusive emails.

Well I said I would think about it and said that day didn't suit could we do a different day. Yes that was fine but my mum isn't welcome and he wants his daughter alone as he isn't some criminal that needs supervising. I also need to drop CSA and money grabbing. I am there at 1pm end of.

Didn't even ask how she was. And how she's been today I know he wouldn't cope at all. She's been a nightmare and has had me in tears so....

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 17-Feb-13 18:36:08

Make just tell him to fuck off and grow up. He's trying to change things to enable him to bully you and belittle you. Don't give him that. Tell him that he won't be getting your DD unsupervised until he can actually demonstrate the ability to care for get and interact with her. And like it it not, the only way he'll learn how to do that is by actually talking to you like a grown up. angry

They want to get me there to intimidate me I think

littlemisssarcastic Sun 17-Feb-13 18:42:23

Agree with bunch about being careful wrt setting a precedent re travelling to him for contact. I wouldn't travel all of that way.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 17-Feb-13 18:43:37

That is exactly what they want to do make, so don't agree to contact without someone else there with you so you can protect yourself from that treatment. I'd suggest you tell him either he accepts the supervision you deem necessary until he shows he's capable of looking after your DD or he arranges a contact centre. Tell him it's got nowt to do with him being a criminal but his choice to make no effort to spend time with your DD getting to know her and her needs, and for her sake he needs to know this stuff to make sure she is being properly cared for.

These men! This is not the man I met. I'm going to have a nice evening, a glass of wine to congratulate myself on not biting after a bad day and have a think about what email I shall compose confused

CremeEggThief Sun 17-Feb-13 18:49:06

I don't think you should go now. He's trying to intimidate you already. Stick to your guns. <Hugs>.

anonacfr Sun 17-Feb-13 19:12:37

Don't go. Tell him it's too far and not practical. He wants to threaten you about CSA.
He doesn't care about his daughter. If he did he wouldn't try so hard to get out of any financial contribution.

MrsTomHardy Sun 17-Feb-13 19:13:36

Omg def do not take DD there.....and do not stop Csa either!

What a total prick he is

ratspeaker Sun 17-Feb-13 19:20:06

Please dont go running yourself ragged again running after him and at his command.
Tell him it doesn't suit but offer the same type of meeting as you had on valentines day.

Thank you all smile

GregBishopsBottomBitch Sun 17-Feb-13 19:49:08

Make tell him these points:

1) You are not DD alone until I alone am satisfied, you will look after her properly.
2) No i will not drop the CSA, you helped make her, you can contribute or dont ever see her.
3) Once again, you made her, just because im the main carer, doesnt mean you dont have to pay, you do, and you will, get over it.
4) I will NEVER meet you alone as i dont trust you not to bully me, get it that you wont have the chance again.
5) If i want to bring my mum, then i will, NOT YOUR CHOICE

Say "I WILL NOT be meeting you, until you learn how to speak to me respectfully and you WILL NOT be having DD alone until you can look after her properly.

Those are my terms LIKE OR LUMP IT

CruCru Sun 17-Feb-13 20:12:28

Oh good lord.

Perhaps an email along the lines of:
- as relations between you and him / his family are so strained, you are uncomfortable with being alone with him and therefore they will have to put up with your Mum being present;
- he should be aware that you now keep a record of all correspondence with him and that any abusive messages will therefore be kept;
- you will only communicate with him by email;
- until you are comfortable that he is able or willing to adequately care for DD (including nappy changing and interacting) he will not have unsupervised access;
- while it is up to you to make DD available for access, it is not your responsibility to drive her long distances. She will be available for contact at a contact centre / public place that is no more than 30? Minutes away from where you live; and
- the negotiations with the CSA are a separate issue. You will not discuss the CSA with him, either in person or by email. He will need to correspond with the CSA directly.

Please don't say that if he doesn't co-operate with the CSA, he won't get contact. It seems like a fair thing to say but I understand that courts think stuff like that is withholding access (if it comes to that).

Have I missed anything?

I think you guys covered it all wink

flow4 Sun 17-Feb-13 22:06:04

I know saying all those things is very tempting Make grin BUT you must disengage/detach. If you answer him with more than a few facts and sentences, you will simply give him the opportunity to (at best) argue, and (at worst) attack you.

Keep what you say very simple, matter-of-fact and to-the-point. Something like this maybe...

"Hi. I have thought carefully and taken advice. I can't see any good reasons for changing arrangements yet. You can see DD on Xday, Yday or Zday at the same place. When you are more used to each other, of course you can have her without me around, and when we have a regular reliable arrangement, I'll be willing to travel closer to you, but it's still early days."

Don't mention your mum - she's non-negotiable and that's not really any of his business.

Don't mention the CSA - that's also non-negotiable, and an entirely separate issue from his contact.

Don't make conditions ("if/when you can change a nappy" etc.) - you can have these in your head influencing your decisions, but there is no reason to share these thoughts with him, and if you do, he will see that as manipulation, and it will give him an 'excuse' to do it back to you.

Don't share your reasons with him (e.g. "because you bully me", "because" anything) - I promise you, if you show him your vulnerabilities this way, or look like you feel you need to justify yourself, he will use that against you at some point.

Resist the temptation to insert any emotion in what you write - he'll use that too. Just stick to the cool facts.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 17-Feb-13 22:18:41

Excellent advice flow.

flow4 Sun 17-Feb-13 22:30:24

Learned through bitter experience, bunch. hmm

It's just so shit, he doesn't realise it doesn't have to be this way!
I just want to get on with my life. This is going to sound awful but it was alot easier when he didn't see her for six weeks!
Thank you for your excellent advice

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 17-Feb-13 23:15:08

Make, he doesn't care how else it could be, he is just an immature little oik who will have his homer moment when your DD is all grown up and couldn't care less how he felt about why it should be his way or nothing. Follow flow's advice and you'll not go far wrong at all.

I reckon if he could get away with throwing himself on the floor, kicking his legs, and shouting"'It's NOT FAIR!" he would. grin

Flow has an excellent strategy. Sorry that it has come about via experience, Flow.

He's like that advert isn't he where the mum throws herself down.
I've sent your exact message flow, so we will wait for a reply.
What a fool, if he had been civil I would have gone (to be fair) but no I 'step one foot out of line' so to speak and it's back to his foot stamping routine.
It's really tragic, the only one who he's going to hurt and spite in the end in himself But of course, that will be everyone else's doing except his.
I've been rather good this weekend, I actually went out twice leaving dd for 3 hours each time! Then did fun things with DD, but she was awful yesterday. Very whingey and whiney- turned out she was constipated hmm

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 09:00:51

He'll do some more foot stamping no doubt, Make... Remember it is about being clear about what DD and you want and need... and he won't like that, because he wants it all to be about him.

You're not 'stepping out of line': it's just that you're starting to make your own lines now, rather than standing in his! grin

I think it helps to realise that although it doesn't have to be this way as far as you are concerned, it does have to be this way for him. As I said before, for him it isn't about you, it's about him. For whatever reason (dodgy childhood, personality, life experiences, whatever) he is used to having his own way about everything - he's made uncomfortable and frightened and panicky and angry when he doesn't get this. You taking control over yourself makes him feel like he's out of control.

You can't sort those feelings out for him. He has to work out that he only gets - and only needs - to control himself, not you, or anyone else around him. He has to come to terms with his feelings of loss of control... Or not.

You need to focus on you - taking control of your own actions and decisions. In every situation, and especially when you're dealing with him, you need to make an effort to think about what you and DD want and need, not what he might want. You probably haven't been very used to this, since he has clearly been very controlling, so it will take some time and practice. smile

Thanks MrsC. It was all a very a long time ago, and I don't feel hurt any more. I feel stronger and wiser in fact, which is obviously a good thing. smile I'll bet that Make will grow stronger and wiser too! smile I think it frustrated the hell out of my DS's dad that the more he tried to hurt me, the stronger I became... grin

Each time he attacks or tries to play some stupid game, Make, is another opportunity for you to work out what is actually important to you, and what you really need in that situation, and what you can do to achieve it and make things good for you and your DD. smile

Flow- I am sorry you have been through this too, but you really do give such great advice. It's like you know him

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 09:54:05

I'm glad it's useful smile
It's a bit depressing that there seems to be a 'type' of man like this... Obviously I don't know your Ex, but I spent years trying to understand mine... And I have watched several friends end relationships with men who also behaved like this. sad

Whocansay Mon 18-Feb-13 10:05:54

If he wants to see his child, he should be the one doing the travelling. He has no business ordering you to do all the driving.

Let the CSA do their job. Your DD is not some sort of hobby that he is being made to pay for, she is his daughter and he has to share her expenses.

He only wants you to leave your mum at home so he can abuse you. I'd leave your mum at home next time and take your dad. I guarantee he'll like that even less!

I think the flow's email was spot on. Don't let him bully you.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 18-Feb-13 10:26:34

I'd leave your mum at home next time and take your dad. I guarantee he'll like that even less! grin That's an excellent suggestion. Keep that one up your sleeve Make, for when things do move on (assuming he does actually step up and show willing).

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 10:56:49

The thing is, tempting though it is to play him at his own game, taking your dad because "he'll like that even less" is game playing - and that never, ever helps dammit.

It feels good maybe (though often only for a few minutes), but when the initial euphoria has worn off, it always ratchets up the tension, or leads to another attack, or makes you feel like a shit human being... sad

The aim is to do what's right for you and DD - taking him into account, but not letting his likely reactions drive what you do. If you do anything at all just to piss him off - or to get any kind of reaction from him - then in fact you are still, in effect, letting him control you. sad

Take your dad with you sometimes by all means, but only when it is the best thing for you to do smile - not because of the reaction it might provoke.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Mon 18-Feb-13 11:06:58

Makes Flow has a point, and take anyone you please, he has no right to dictate it either.

Well still no reply from him!

Whocansay Mon 18-Feb-13 14:16:05

Let's face it, you're going to have to have a chaperone when meeting with him for the forseeable future, as if you're on your own with him he will bully and abuse you. You need a witness at all times. Clearly, at your last meeting he was DESPERATE to give you both barrels with regards to the CSA claim, but he wouldn't as he's a coward and wouldn't dare do it in front of your mum. The cunt.

Or his parents.
Plus I think he was pissed he messed up about valentines day wink

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 15:22:19

I'm not surprised you haven't had a reply. I think he'd probably leave it as late as possible, just to try to make himself feel more in control. hmm And in any case, he probably doesn't know what to say - there's not much he can say in reply to that email, other than 'yes' or 'no', without sounding like a plonker, which he won't want to do. And I'm guessing he won't be used to you being so assertive?! smile

No he won't be. He's used to me going 'I don't know, you decide' and then saying I'm bossy, or indesisive or lazy or spoilt or treated like a princess.
Really our relationship was all about him. I moved countries for his job, this putting mine on the backburner,(met him when we were both working ROI), lived in a house he picked, he lent me money to do all that which I've never heard the end of, to fund his move.
angry Writing that has made me angry!

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 16:38:32

Anger is probably good. smile
Anger is the right response to someone treating you badly.
Anger is part of the process of grieving for the relationship you hoped you'd have, but didn't get.
Anger is harder to express when you've got a baby or small child, because you don't want to scare them confused ; but it's healthy if you can find a way to express it somehow (counselling, kick boxing, swimming or running very fast, drama classes...! grin )
So long as you don't get stuck in the anger, you can express it - then let it go, and move on.

It's good it's coming out now... You're stirring things up by behaving differently, and it'll get things 'unstuck'... smile

What is it they say?
"If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got. If you want what you've never had, you must do what you've never done" smile

Flow I'm writing that in my diary!! I normally get my anger out on my latch hooking.
I am getting out more socially which is always good, building my confidence x

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 17:25:21

I had to Google 'latch hooking'... I'm surprised anyone ever dares mess with you - you must be pretty handy with one of these ! wink grin

It is my secret hidden talent :-) it mermerizes DD. I'm just making a rug for her bedroom when we get our home.
must not leave in handbag when in twunts lovely company

Well just had a rather rude message: he will not be dictated to and I can basically go and fuck myself shock

He wants to see dd but not on my terms all the time

PermanentlyOnEdge Mon 18-Feb-13 19:43:31

Well he is fresh out of luck then. Because you are going to dictate to him, you have the right to dictate to him, and he'd better get used to it. His DD is not a toy, and he must treat you and her with respect, or he won't see you at all.

Stay strong!

Now I just got a email saying he will get a solicitor to explain it all to me hmm

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 19:45:22

Goodness, he's not used to you asserting yourself at ALL, is he?! And it has obviously got right under his skin, silly man!

The very best thing to do - if you can control yourself! grin - is to totally ignore that email. (Just like you would ignore bad, attention-seeking behaviour from a toddler!)

I bet you a million pounds (or would do if I had it!) that he won't be able to stop himself sending you another one, perhaps tonight, but definitely tomorrow, saying "Well?!" At which point you can respond saying something like "I guess not this week then. Let me know when you do want to arrange to come and see her".

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 18-Feb-13 19:46:37

Well you have that in writing make, he'd rather be abusive and not see your DD on the (very reasonable terms) offered. If he decides to take you to court, you have his twattish behaviour documented. If I were you I'd write down a detailed account of the visit that's just taken place, highlighting why you offered the terms you have. Means you don't have to recall details at a later date.

And just ignore him until he starts acting like a grown up. Maybe send something that keeps the door open but strictly on your terms. His continued refusal to that only serves to weaken any arguments he makes about you blocking access.

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 19:49:17

Oops, posted before that second 'solicitor' email. See, I was right, he couldn't stop himself sending another email, could he?!

Ignore that one too... If you are going to hear from a solicitor, you don't need to have the arguments with him. smile It's absolutely fine and nothing to worry about. In fact, if he involves a solicitor that's good, because (a) it will reduce the amount of bullying he can do, quite dramatically, and (b) the solicitor will explain it all to him! smile

But they have the money to afford the best. I scraped together what I had for one visit. I can't get legal aid until my maternity ends.
I do not know how much more I can take confused

PermanentlyOnEdge Mon 18-Feb-13 19:52:59

Ah yes, because you couldn't possibly be able to make your own decisions, you need it all explained to you about why he feels he can treat you with contempt. Don't worry about this. You are operating within your rights in the best interests of your DD. He is operating in the best interests of himself. Stick to your guns.

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 19:56:54

I know. It's very, very stressful. And it's not fair. sad

But you can take it. And I promise you, this is exactly like dealing with toddler tantrums: if you 'give in' for a 'easy life' now, he will go on and on and on bullying you. If you can hold firm, then - just like a tantrumming toddler - he will get worse and try everything he can think of for a short while, but when he realises you mean what you say and aren't a push-over, he'll stop.

Why can't you get legal aid until your maternity ends? I'm not sure about Legal Aid rules, but I would have thought you'd qualify, since you're not working...

CAB say I defo don't.
I wonder if he's just threatening me. I just don't know what happens now x

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 18-Feb-13 19:59:37

Make, no amount of money they have can disguise the abusive twat your ex is. He's thick enough to put it in an email so throwing thousands at this won't erase that. You've been reasonable, measured and restrained despite his twattish behaviour. Don't be afraid because they have money. You can show a court through everything you have kept records of that you have tried to promote your DD's relationship with her dad, while considering her needs, and despite your best efforts he chooses to abuse you and not take up the terms of contact offered.

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 20:00:30

Have you got a women's centre in your area? They sometimes have women lawyers doing pro bono work (i.e. giving free legal advice)...

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 20:01:32

And yes, exactly what bunch says here ^ smile

Flow- is that something women's aid would offer.
Maybe I need to calm down as the letter hasn't dropped on the mat yet blush

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 20:10:49

Yes, though it's totally understandable that you are upset and flustered, because he is bullying you now, and anyone who is standing up to a bully feels stressed out by it.

But remember he is actually much less powerful than you feel he is - he is swearing and raging at you specifically because he doesn't feel like he is in control. Strange though it may sound, his raging is a good sign that you are more powerful than you were - and he feels it - which is why he is going on the attack.

Take a deep breath and make a cup of tea or pour yourself a drink or something smile

I will post more info in a minute.

Thank you ladies. Am feeling maringaly better now. Just going to breathe and wait for the letter I think he's calling my bluff, and so does mum. So I go running up there.
If I emailed saying I'd go up there I bet it was never mentioned again.
I'm really wishing I'd had it out with them all last week with mum in a way

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 20:36:59

OK... The first thing to say is that you don't actually need a solicitor yet. So far, all you have from him is a lot of noise and some threats that will probably turn out to be empty ones.

If and when you get a letter from his solicitor, then you can get yourself some legal advice. The info below might then be useful...

But even then, don't worry about it. You have done nothing wrong and are behaving reasonably. You have more to gain than he does, if solicitors get involved. smile A solicitor will act as a 'buffer' so that you don't have to deal directly with him again.

I don't know if Women's Aid have lawyers - give 'em a ring and ask smile Their general enquiries number is 0117 944 44 11.

I do know that if you need to get an injunction against him to stop him harassing you, there are special rules that mean that you will get legal aid. You are probably not at this point yet, but remember it, in case he cranks up the abuse. sad

You can check whether you are eligible for legal aid on this legal aid calculator. You have to enter your income and expenditure.

If you're on one of the following benefits, you will automatically qualify:
Income Support
Income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance
Income-based Employment and Support Allowance
Guarantee Credit.

Remember you should be able to get a short (10-30 min) free legal consultation from many solicitors, whether or not you qualify for legal aid. Solicitors offer this as a way of drawing in business. Google 'free legal consultation' and your town, and you should get a few results.

You can also get some free legal advice over the 'phone from the Community Legal service . Their website says:
Get free confidential legal advice now
Call 0845 345 4 345
Mon - Fri 9am - 8:00pm
Sat 9am - 12:30pm
Calls from 4p/min - or get us to call you back
There is also a web-based service - link here

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 20:40:18

Cross-posted. Glad you're feeling a bit better smile I think you are right and he is bluffing as well as blustering!

I don't know about having it out with them face-to-face. It depends how strong and confident you are in an argument. I'm inclined to think that doing everything in writing keeps it a bit calmer and less frightening; and of course if he threatens or abuse you, you have instant proof.

Oh flow thank you so much!
I am rubbish but maybe I wish I had said something last week. Never mind, there's alot of things I wish I'd done different but that's too late now. All that matters is DD

GregBishopsBottomBitch Mon 18-Feb-13 20:48:02

Make Ignore him sweetie, all stupid men try the "see you in court" line to get you to back down to his demands, ignore and detach, unless you were a truly horrid mother, of which i know you certainly are not, no court, is gonna take the side of someone who has very sporadic contact with his child, dont raise to the twat, stick to your rules, he'll get bored, coz he'll know, his bullshit aint working now.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Mon 18-Feb-13 20:51:43

I also add, he probably wont try the court process, because hes pissed off at CSA getting involved, now court will mean alot more money hes gotta spend, and if he went to court, and said he pays nothing, then hes gonna look like a world class wanker.

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 20:56:28

No problem. smile

I'm going away for a few days and don't know whether I'll have an internet connection, so just remember:

- Stay calm
- Detach - ignore his emotional outbursts completely if you can
- Ignore him totally if he's rude and horrible - don't even respond
- If you communicate with him, stick to cool, calm facts - keep your emotions to yourself
- You have offered him contact. Ignore anything/everything he says back that isn't about this contact. If he responds with rants, just ignore his email. If he responds accepting your offer and ranting, just respond to the practical stuff, not the emotional stuff.
- Don't pay too much attention to your guilty feelings - they are just left over from him trying to manipulate him - you are doing nothing wrong! :D
- The crosser he gets, the stronger that means he thinks you are being. He is trying to make you feel weak again. Don't let him smile
- Avoid getting drawn into playing any games - just do what is best for your DD and you smile

Good luck!

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 20:58:36

Of course I should have said "keep your emotions to yourself and Mumsnet "!! grin

Have a nice time, and thank you

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 21:49:33

Thanks smile
Just finishing the packing now... See you at the end of the week smile

That was just such a message loaded with aggression.
Ill get my solicitor to explain it to you

flow4 Tue 19-Feb-13 08:20:19

Yes. Silly man. See how he doesn't quite believe in his own powers to bully you any more? It reminds me of a playground bully saying "I'll get my dad on to you!" when someone stands up to him!

It's so sad and hurtful isn't it? This man you had a baby with, who should have been the most supportive person in the world, turning into the worst. sad Like you said, it's such a waste. My guess is that relationship breakdowns make men like these sad too, but they can't possibly admit to sadness, because that would be weak... So they transform their sadness into anger instead.

Anyway, be strong. It gets better. And you don't have to be twisted by it like he has been; instead of being angry, you are choosing to turn your sadness into love and a determination to make the best of things smile And good on you - you will make the world a bit of a better place for your DD (and everyone else) by doing so. smile

I'm off now. See you at the end of the week.

Now he just emails asking when he can have the 800 quid I owe him

ratspeaker Tue 19-Feb-13 19:20:21

How does he figure you owe him money?
has he paid anything toward the baby's expenses since birth?
As I remember you were spending a fortune running back and forth with the baby.
Did he cover any petrol costs?

Its just something else to try and upset you.

He pays 30 a week since 6 weeks. But never towards cot, buggy, car seat, clothes.
Says its outstanding rent from when I left him. He still has my furniture and apparently I can't have it (out if the blue)
That's spiting DD in her new home when we get one.
Had a terrible day with DD and am too tired to let him get to me

ratspeaker Tue 19-Feb-13 19:30:13

Ignore him

You dont owe any rent he chucked you out didnt he?

Please don' t let this gobshite drag you down

he's trying to bully and intimidate you
He wants a response. Dont play his game

You're becoming a much stronger capable woman. <pat on back>

Dont look at any emails he sends for a couple of days

DancingInTheMoonlight Tue 19-Feb-13 20:02:21

Was your name on the tenancy agreement? If not he doesn't have a leg to stand on..

No it wasn't, and he threw me out.
He's really clutching at straws at trying to intimidate me.
Probably trying to get money out of me to take me to court.
Also- because I sit on my arse all day and recieve benefits -apparently.

Nope. I live with my parents, have only maternity pay and maintence. We scrape by, and when we move I will take what we can get rented or HA and get what i am entitled for whilst I complete my access corse for university to provide me and my daughter with a good life.
So no. I'm not what he thinks I am.

<sorry needed a rant>

DancingInTheMoonlight Tue 19-Feb-13 20:14:07

Then he doesn't stand a chance! Followed your sorry on previous threads and I'm impressed with how strong you have been. Your dd sounds lovely and you sound like you are doing a great job.

Can i suggest revisiting your teenage years and finding some cheesy angst music to dance/jump around the room to to release done stress when he is being a twunt- i swear by it

Awe thank you!
I actually have some cheese fm on whilst finishing my latest wool creation grin

DancingInTheMoonlight Tue 19-Feb-13 20:23:50

I tried to learn to crochet but bought the most difficult book ever to follow. My very experienced mil couldn't even follow it! Have another one I'm summoning the courage to try but this week is a write off due to toddler snot fest insomnia!

Whocansay Tue 19-Feb-13 20:24:06

What Ratspeaker said.

although would be tempting just to text back with "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Tue 19-Feb-13 20:28:00

Make, I agree with others, just ignore him. Don't give his pathetic attemps to wind you up any oxygen. £800? Pah, he's got a cheek. He really really is just an immature little twat Make, and just like any toddler, he'll give up his tantrum when he realises that a) no one gives a tiny shiny shit about his petty gripes and b) he no longer has an audience paying him any heed.

Deep breaths, shut down the email, and chill. I really think you should get your mum to filter your emails for you, and only let you know if he says/asks anything remotely worthwhile knowing about.

I'm rubbish at crochet! I'm latch hooking at the moment, making a cushion and rug for when DD has her own room. It's very therapeutic.

Sod my furniture. Not sure i would want it now, and not sure if a glass coffee table (I do love) will ever be practical again! smile

DancingInTheMoonlight Tue 19-Feb-13 20:32:16

Coffee tables are a lot less pretty with jam/peanut butter/snot/evil porridge cement smeared on them! Plus you can have a fresh start if/when you eventually move.

On the positive side, he sounds REALLY desperate to get a reaction from you! It must be driving him mad! Hahahaha

ProphetOfDoom Tue 19-Feb-13 20:32:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I do think that what it is about now Matilda. It's not about DD, her welfare, her relations. It's not even in a way about getting at me or realising what he has done, how he treats people, it is about him winning.
But he won't win.
Because its not a game, she's not a prize. She is a baby, she's my baby. It's not about a fight.
I'm too tired to fight him. The only person he is fighting really is himself.
Sod the furniture, a fresh start is better.
Now we know for sure what would have happened If I had driven up there.
Stamp stamp stamp doesn't scare me. The more he stamps the more quickly I get over it as it is so so pathetic.
The stamping will stop now, and he will ignore us for another six weeks. -Hoping Thinking I'm sat here shutting myself over a solicitors letter that's never going to arrive and crying over a coffee table.

DancingInTheMoonlight Tue 19-Feb-13 20:56:36

I wouldn't worry about court-given his current level of commitment he would struggle to convince them to his way if thinking about contact. Besides if court ordered an assessment about contact the assessor would watch and assess the quality of contact and his capabilities (which sound limited) and most importantly the benefit to your dd. BUT even taking it to court involves commitment, a weird that doesn't seem to even be in his vocabulary!

ddrmum Tue 19-Feb-13 21:02:19

Hello! Just to add my admiration of how far you have come. Stay strong and believe in yourself. Those idiots only do things for'show'. Ignore them and enjoy your dd, get stronger everyday and life will get better and better. Wishing you all good things xxx

SoftKittyWarmKitty Tue 19-Feb-13 21:10:16

Make you're right that it's not about seeing DD. That was clear (to us all looking in from the outside) from the start but as you were emotionally involved I think it took a bit longer for it to sink in for you. Seeing him not interact with your DD or ask about her at all, him abusing and threatening you, then the next minute begging to see her, him accusing you of withholding contact and threatening solicitors - all that has proved to you (and us) that this is a game to him and it's about winning.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Tue 19-Feb-13 21:22:36

Sorry, pressed submit too soon.

Was going to say that I sympathise about your furniture and I'm sorry but you might be as well writing it off. When my ex fecked off, he owed me £800 from a holiday we'd been on a few months earlier which I'd paid for on my credit card and he'd never paid me for his half. I asked for it back loads of times and got responses ranging from 'I haven't got it' to 'I'm not giving it back'. He told me to sell the white goods in the house (my house, but jointly purchased white goods) and use the proceeds towards the £800 - yes, because a pregnant woman can really live without a fridge, cooker and washing machine, you fucking twunt hmm.

If I were you I wouldn't give him the satisfaction of asking for it again. Just buy new stuff when you get a place - at least it won't be tainted with his negative vibes smile.

ProphetOfDoom Tue 19-Feb-13 21:47:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Thank you ladies.
Now ive just had a email telling me he can't come and see her as he can't afford it anymore hmm

And I need to take her to her other grandparents. I am unreasonable. I've been out of order since she's been born.

Whocansay Wed 20-Feb-13 13:53:42

No-one needs to tell you that it's not your responsibility to take dd anywhere, do you? Again, don't respond to him at all.

Oh no I just feel sad he's got such tunnel vision.
Who expects a young inexperienced mother who had PND to drive her child around the country. In a anxious state. At all times of day disregarding the babies routine and comfort zone.

Oh yes, now I remember, them

DancingInTheMoonlight Wed 20-Feb-13 14:02:13

God he is scrapping the bottom of the barrel to provoke a reaction! Ignore, ignore, ignore!

ProphetOfDoom Wed 20-Feb-13 14:10:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Wed 20-Feb-13 14:10:59

It's all just noise really isn't it? Doesn't compel you to go anything, doesn't make any of it true, doesn't mean all he has to do is go to court and suddenly he'll get everything he thinks he's entitled to

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Wed 20-Feb-13 14:11:18

Bugger posted too soon.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Wed 20-Feb-13 14:16:04

He's got no intention of going to court if he can't afford to travel to see his DD. I doubt he'd rather spend thousands on court, than a much smaller % in travel to see your DD. He'll keep trying to grind you down until he realises his rants aren't having any effect. All you have to do is ignore, and wait to see if he'll eventually come back and accept your terms, or if he'll just stew in his own bitterness and anger.

Whocansay Wed 20-Feb-13 14:20:57

Do you now see what a narrow escape you had from this twat? You could have spent years putting up with this crap, with him blaming you for everything!

He is just a sad deluded fool who thinks one foot stamp gets what he wants. confused

Meant to but angry not confused

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Wed 20-Feb-13 14:25:18

It's really good to hear you talk this way make, you have come really far and I'm sure things will only continue to improve for you personally, irrespective of what the ex twunt does.

That's a lovely thing to say bunch thank you

MrsTomHardy Wed 20-Feb-13 17:20:21

It's not your responsibility to take your dd anywhere! Please don't drive around the country taking her here there everywhere just to please him and his family!

My xh told me he couldn't afford to see his 2 boys again, that was 10 years ago now....he lives 12 miles away angry

I promise I won't, I did when I had PND and was 4 days-8 weeks old.
Looking back now that was a different woman- I was really not well

SoftKittyWarmKitty Wed 20-Feb-13 19:33:39

You've got the measure of him and he doesn't like it. He's trying to push your emotional buttons and doesn't like that you're not reacting. Stay strong.

Inertia Wed 20-Feb-13 23:10:57

Make, I've just read your whole thread through tonight and it's incredible how your posts have changed from despair to strong and witty.

Not much to add to the excellent advice above, but one thing did occur to me- part of your Ex's argument about you not letting him have contact is dependent on you not being able to prove otherwise. This is why it's beneficial to him to insist on his mother's house, with no other witnesses. If contact is at a contact centre, presumably it's recorded; if it at's soft play, you've signed in with dates and times. I think it's worth insisting that all contact is somewhere traceable.

And definitely don't trek across the country, and never go on your own.

Thank you inertia.
Not feeling strong at all today

anonacfr Thu 21-Feb-13 13:07:20

Twat. He wants contact, he makes it happen. He's now talking about not being able to afford it so you drop the whole CSA thing.

Ignore ignore ignore. Try to have a restful day, treat yourself to a cake/ice cream, nice bath etc.

But if he can't afford to come and see her he can't afford to take me to court (parents wud prob pay) CSA won't start paying until mid march so it's not that. He's got no intention of doing Anythkng, he doesn't want to see her. I think he's playing his parents.

Teething baby is making me sad. Just had a bath and sat sobbing. Would be nice to have a family, feel that hand on my shoulder reassuring me. I feel terribly confused today.
it was nice to find a little wet nose nuzzling me, but a fluffy paw on the shoulder isn't the same


You have a family. You, Your dd and your parents/friends. You don't your twat of an ex to make a family.

I really can't see him taking you to court any time soon as he will not make an effort to see her now. He not going to make the effort to take your to court which will be near you not him as it held where dc lives.

smile Thanks where. Feel slightly better now

GregBishopsBottomBitch Thu 21-Feb-13 16:40:21

Men like him always say that, its all bullshit, he just wants to get at you, hes stamping his feet and wants his own way, and hes realising now, that your getting stronger, he cant cope that you are better and beyond him now.

He's just trying to provoke you, Make to get a reaction, to drag you down to his level.

But you're much better than that. You KNOW he's a prize tool. A silly bully who is showing off because he can't get his own way.

As you said, as several have said - if he can't afford to come and see his own child, then he can't afford to take you to court.

You're doing so well - even when you have days when you feel low, you've made a huge amount of progress; your confidence is shining through.

I just do what's been recommended to me. See every day as an achievement. It sounds like I'm wishing my life away in a way, I go to bed and I'm thankful I've got through another day.
I do one kind thing a day for myself (today- a cake) and one fun thing for DD. today we did 2- we put together a new box and played with some frozen food. She's teething so I've been up since 2am on and off, crashing now.
He won't take me to court and if he does. The letter didn't drop on the mat today. If it does tommorow that's tommorow. I could get hit by a bus tonight, unlikely, but why worry. You get what I mean,
When I'm sat here screaming baby in handing wondering why he isn't here to support us I remember he wanted to abort her. Then I get cross and feel so much better- fiercely protective and I'm lucky as DD agrees a cuddle, a cuppa and some warm milk with a blanket and our pooch Is all we need.

and I don't need a man to put a toy box together grin

ProphetOfDoom Thu 21-Feb-13 20:01:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

We have baby nurofen, bonjella, dentinox gel, nelsons granules, Ashton and parsons granules but it seems frozen bannana is the best smile cheap and cheerful my child smile

Your twunt is at least making a effort smile

DancingInTheMoonlight Thu 21-Feb-13 21:08:29

Frozen facecloths were popular here. I put mittens on to protect his hands tho!

That's a great idea thanks!

Just had a message asking me to take her to his parents this weekend so they can all see her.

she's teething not well and I do not want her sat in the car that long hmm

ratspeaker Fri 22-Feb-13 13:09:03

Far too short notice.

You can offer similar visit to valentines day again and see what he says-IF you feel up to it.

He's just tantrumming.
He says HE cant afford to come and visit her but expects YOU to afford to travel to visit him and or his parents? Double standards or what.

they're basically wanting to get you alone and badger you again

flumposie Fri 22-Feb-13 13:09:13

Ignore the text. If they want to see her they need to come to you. You owe them nothing, if they want a relationship with her they will make it happen . Good luck to you and your daughter in the future.

Inertia Fri 22-Feb-13 13:12:47

Don't respond to him immediately. Leave it a while.

Then check to see whether there's a time that one or both of your parents can accompany you to meet with Twunt Family. If this weekend isn't convenient, then tell him that you already have plans and it's too short notice.

Then suggest days/ times that are convenient for you and your parents, and suggest a suitable meeting place close to you. It might be worth you finding out the details for a convenient contact centre so that records of contact can be checked back if this ever does go to court.

Remember he doesn't actually want to see the baby, he just wants to make you dance to his tune.

I have to reply just incase it ever goes to court- to show I'm not witholding contact.
How about-

Hi, she's not well at the moment so tr journey is too short notice, and too far for DD. It's also not financially viable for me. You are all more than welcome to come down here to see her for a few hours with me. This needs to be arranged by this evening.

(We all know he's not going to come but you know how it is)

Inertia Fri 22-Feb-13 13:14:02

You do need to reply, but it doesn't need to be instantly smile

flumposie Fri 22-Feb-13 13:15:08

That's a fair offer. Please make sure your parents are there if they come.

No chance would I go alone wink
I think I'm being more than fair

BambieO Fri 22-Feb-13 13:20:52

Good response, go for it flowers

Whocansay Fri 22-Feb-13 13:20:54

Dear FW. You are very welcome to visit your daughter, however, it is not my reponsibility to ferry her round the country for the benefit of your relatives. I can meet you and your parents between the hours of X and Y at Z location. Please respond before 8pm this evening or I will assume that you won't be coming. In future, please give me proper notice of your intentions as it may not be convenient. Regards MakeItUpAsYouGoAlong

Inertia Fri 22-Feb-13 13:21:33

Others will have better ideas than me, but I'd consider something that outlines in a positive way exactly what you are willing to arrange.Maybe something like:

We have plans this weekend, I'm afraid, we'll need more than a few hours notice to arrange contact visits. I'm happy to come to an agreement with you about establishing regular planned contact in a mutually convenient contact centre. When agreeing a location we need to bear in mind that health and safety guidelines recommend that young babies spend no more than 2 hours (or whatever it is now , you'll need to check!) in car seats, and also that as I currently have no income I cannot afford to incur travel costs.

ratspeaker Fri 22-Feb-13 13:27:58

<pats make on back >

well done, a few weeks ago you'd be taking her just because he SAID SO.

I think you are wise to offer an alternative, so he cant say you are witholding contact.

Your all so lovely. It's all your help making me strong

Whocansay Fri 22-Feb-13 13:34:47

You know he only wants to get you on your own with his lot so he can berate you. He must know that his demand that you ferry dd round to him is unreasonable. The cunt.

He's so arrogant and ignorant but I'm actually not sure if he realised what he's doing if I'm honest

GregBishopsBottomBitch Fri 22-Feb-13 13:51:18

Make Oh he knows hes doing, they always know, even deep down if they think its unreasonable, they wont change it, because they convince themselves it works. Now hes getting stroppy to try and make you feel unreasonable enough to back down.

Whocansay Fri 22-Feb-13 13:56:12

It's all about control Make. He's trying to get you back in line. Stay strong, as what you do in these first few months will set the pattern for the next 18 years.

If his family were any sort of human beings they would understand wouldn't they?
But they have prob heard so many lies

GregBishopsBottomBitch Fri 22-Feb-13 14:13:15

My ex was a total arsewipe to me, even lied to his parents that he was paying me maintenance, they still hes the best father in world (yeah right).

Its like a denial thing, "I made this nasty twat, no i possibly couldnt have, its everyone elses fault he does those things".

SpanishLady Fri 22-Feb-13 15:37:51

de-lurking - Just to give you a possible future glimpse from your DD's perspective:

I had a bit of a useless father who I didnt see realy until I was about 10 - my mum was very unhappy about this and would have preferred he had stayed out of my life but my step dad said he was my father and I was old enough to make my own decisions about a relationship with him.

Let me be clear, he is not a bad man - never agressive or unkind or anything but quite simply and I say this without any sadness or without any drama - he just didnt love me - not really.

So I started having contact but he was flaky about it - to be fair he lived outside the UK but unless my mum called him to arrange to put me on a plane (each summer holiday) I didnt hear from him from one visit to another, when he did see me my step father paid to enable me to see him, never asked me one question that I can remember about me - just questions about my mum and what she was doing. I used to think there was something wrong with me before I met him and my mum didnt like to talk about him (didnt know his name what he looked like etc until I was 10) but once I did meet him I understood what it was all about - at 10 I could see through the bullshit and saw excactly how the land lay. My mum made a mistake being so uptight about him but she neednt have worried that I wouldnt see him for what he was.

You need to show your daughter that you did your best and were reasonable but she will ultimately have to decide for herself about him and I think unless he grows up she will know hes no good.

But that is for the future - right now she is a baby and you call the shots and only you.

Personally I would not reply to any messages that arent about making sensible and polite suggestions about the child and her access to her father and his family - if he sends you an email shouting and screaming - ignore - you only respond to polite and respectful messages - he'll either finally learn or give up.

Frankly I would do nothing and hope he just gives up.

Going to colleage is such a great step but you also need to live all your life - you are a young woman with opportunities.

I wondered why you didnt go on your date?

Thank you for that Spanish, very
Kind of you.
I didn't go as I hate leaving DD. I don't go out very much to be honest. I was thinking about starting Internet dating now I feel stronger but to be honest I think I'd rather be alone and I've no idea what id say about myself. Or how to explain why I am not working and in a different county to my job. Plus no one would want me anyway. Nothing too me apart from DD, in the nicest way.
I was just sat here wondering what happened to his solicitor explaining it to me?
Because im sure we've had this conversation about going up there twice this week wink.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Fri 22-Feb-13 15:55:11

Plus no one would want me anyway. Nothing too me apart from DD, in the nicest way.

Make Theres what i've learned about you:
1) Very Witty
2) A great mum
3) Gaining strength everyday
4) Independent
5) Very sweet

and also i think someone who'd be a great friend. You just had the misfortune, of bagging a twunt, and lets face, we all have at some point.

When your ready to put yourself out there, dont be afraid too, but dont rush it.

No Greg I think you sound fab actually smile

SpanishLady Fri 22-Feb-13 16:10:06

AND you know exactly what you would want and not want from a partner and father to your child(dren) - so in a very strong position.

A little romance and some kindness doesnt hurt - I am not for a minute suggesting you need another relationship now just a reminder there are lots of nice guys out there and one day when you are ready you may allow a lucky man to be in your life - I also picked up on the feeling that mixed up in all this is an element of how you feel about your dd's father and how he has treated you.

I doubt there will be any solicitors letter and if there is well then progress. I'd kill his solicitor with kindness and cheerfulness!

GregBishopsBottomBitch Fri 22-Feb-13 16:13:29

I've been single 4 years, i've flirted and sexy talked with some guys, but i just really cant be arsed with men right now, i will eventually.

And i can bet that he hasnt even got near a solictors, its just a scare tactic, worry about things when they actually happen, even then, you've got nothing to worry about, he on the otherhand...hes outed himself as a twunt.

ratspeaker Fri 22-Feb-13 18:22:44

Make you're doing great, you sound like you're climbing out of the black pit of PND.
And no wonder you had PND. Your partner was unsupportive, chucked you out, his family were vile, you had to move, then while trying to bf you were expected to drive around with the wee one at their beck and call no matter how tired or stressed you were. A stressed mum makes for a stressed baby.

Now keep in mind if he does go to a solicitor and you get a letter from said solicitor you dont have to treat that was the word of law. The lawyer will write what they're paid to.
Just keep that in mind.

Thank you all.
He didn't reply so he obviously doesn't want to see her.
Looking back I can't believe I sat and bf my 4 day old in the car park at south mimms service station!

GregBishopsBottomBitch Fri 22-Feb-13 18:32:44

Make Thats all past now, your a new strong make, making sure your DD gets what she deserves, just keep being you and not what others want, coz they dont deserve it.

Yes your right that's not me anymore.
The more he pulls stunts like this (not replying re contact) the angrier I get.
Why do it?
Oh yes because he never wanted her.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Fri 22-Feb-13 19:57:45

Make the fact that he hasn't replied to your message speaks volumes. You told him DD isn't well at the moment and he hasn't even asked you what's wrong with her and if she's ok. He clearly doesn't care about her at all. He only cares about a) himself and b) scoring cheap points over you.

He's pathetic. What a joke he is.

Yes that makes me so angry kitty

GregBishopsBottomBitch Fri 22-Feb-13 20:20:40

I always think that men who treat their children like that, are gonna be the sad lonely ones at xmas, wondering what they did wrong, obviously not all people alone at xmas are like that, but some probably are.

As much as I hope he would be he never will be he will find someone else to manipulate, spin lies to and console him with 'now now twunt, make is a bitch'

GregBishopsBottomBitch Fri 22-Feb-13 20:29:10

Oh, i been there with my ex twunt, the lies he told his gf after me, including this charming line:

"We can be a family, you'll be DD's mum", luckily, his now ex-gf was lovely and told him DD already had a mother.

What a complete TOOL!!

GregBishopsBottomBitch Fri 22-Feb-13 20:37:29

Yup, luckily i see through his bullshit otherwise i woulda castrated the twunt with a butter knife with his mum watching.

flow4 Fri 22-Feb-13 21:44:11

Hello Make smile Just catching up on developments since Tuesday... I see Twunt hasn't suddenly seen the light and become a reformed character and devoted dad! hmm grin

It's really good to see you dealt with his email at lunchtime, despite having a bit of a wobble. smile Like other people have said, it's great to see you growing stronger: a week or so ago you didn't know how to reply to him at all, and now you do!

Just be a bit careful about explaining yourself too much... Firstly, you don't need to explain why you won't just drop everything and drive DD to see him this weekend - it's a ridiculous demand/request. But also, every reason you provide gives him an opportunity to poke and insult and argue and try to 'drag you in' and manipulate you...

So for instance, you say "DD is not well" and he is likely to reply some total sh*t thing along the lines of "Bring her when she's better then. Anyway I bet she's not really that ill, you're just making excuses. If she's well enough to see us at all, she's well enough to come here. And you know what - if she's ill you're obviously not looking after her very well. My mum and I can look after her just as well as you..."

And when you say "It's just not financially viable for me", he can reply with nonsense like "I bet you have more than me you money-grabbing b*tch. I pay you maintainance so you can afford it fine. And you're scrounging off the State too. Anyway, what kind of mother puts money about their child seeing her dad?"

You get the point. It'll all be total b*ll*cks, but it will draw you in and get under your skin, and upset you. IME it really is better to stick to something much more 'basic' (even if it sounds ridiculously blunt) like "Sorry, that's not convenient. But you're welcome to come here to see her, as I said last week".

It all gets very tiresome and it's so ridiculous... You're doing really well dealing with it, and you're getting better every day. smile

Thank you flow, I'm feeling better today. We are baking cakes smile
Your right smile
Hope you had a nice time away

flow4 Sat 23-Feb-13 11:27:01

Yay, cakes are GOOD ! grin

Your DD is lucky to have a mum like you smile The goodness you add to her life will more than outweigh any rubbish from her dad. smile

And yes, we did have a nice time, thank you smile

Thanks flow. Cakes are not good for me but its fun. Dd has her bumbo,'plastic bowl and spoon. Starting her early! smile

BlackMini Sat 23-Feb-13 16:49:18