to think that having 8 DC by 3 different fathers may well have a detrimental impact on the DCs?

(380 Posts)
StuckForAUserName Thu 24-Jan-13 20:08:19

Especially as the first two fathers are not in the picture anymore so the 3rd husband is bringing up someone else's 6 DC and then a further 2 have been added to the household hmm.

The mother is effectively a single parent anyway as the latest DH is away a lot in the military. The oldest 3 are in boarding school though so there is only 5 DC full time at home. This is a middle class family btw not a family of 'benefit scroungers'. The mother states that 'her kids have a decent dad and will all be fine'. AIBU in thinking that it's terrible?

t0lk13n Thu 24-Jan-13 20:10:35

It has nothing to do with you. Stop being so judgmental!

StuckForAUserName Thu 24-Jan-13 20:10:36

There is definite favouritism as well with regards to the 2 youngest.

This is my aunt btw. I feel so sorry for her DC sad.

fluffygal Thu 24-Jan-13 20:10:48

If she is looking after them, what's the problem? I think it's terrible the first two days have abandoned them.

fluffygal Thu 24-Jan-13 20:11:06

dads not days

Ilovesunflowers Thu 24-Jan-13 20:11:25

None of your business.

MimmeeBack Thu 24-Jan-13 20:11:25

Is it any of your business, really?
YABU biscuit

McNewPants2013 Thu 24-Jan-13 20:13:15

Children need good role models, DNA connection sometimes means nothing.

StuckForAUserName Thu 24-Jan-13 20:13:51

Of course it's not my business, that's why I have not said what I think to her face! That's the point of coming on an anonymous forum to get others points of view.

NewAndSparklyMe Thu 24-Jan-13 20:15:15

YANBU.

CheCazzo Thu 24-Jan-13 20:16:59

Well. The thing is - and you seem to have not quite grasped this - this IS her situation. What would you like her to do about it? Farm some of them out? Magic up the absent dads? You might not approve (although it really isn't your concern) but you'd be better of spending your energy seeing where/how you could help. She's in it, you're commenting from the sides. Do you see how that's not quite right?

t0lk13n Thu 24-Jan-13 20:17:27

Why do you want an opinion? If it bothers you that much tell her!

CuttedUpPear Thu 24-Jan-13 20:18:28

I don't think you have the first idea of what being a single parent is. Certainly not being married with a husband who works away.

That is NOT being a single parent, as you so blithely comment.

AngelWreakinHavoc Thu 24-Jan-13 20:18:51

Nowt to do with you! Keep your nose out of other peoples business imo,

Fairylea Thu 24-Jan-13 20:19:46

Why do you think it's a problem?

If it's simply because they have different dads you need to loosen the judgy pants. It is not at all unusual now and no one will bat an eyelid.

Except you that is.

NewAndSparklyMe Thu 24-Jan-13 20:20:25

This is AIBU, no? Where we ask if we're being unreasonable or if others hold the same view?! Sometimes you want to see if others hold the same opinion or if you are in a minority, so is a perfectly reasonable AIBU.
"Why do you want an opinion" type answers are a bit strange.

CuttedUpPear Thu 24-Jan-13 20:20:27

And if a man decides to 'effectively' bring up someone else's DC then good on him!
What on earth is your problem with that?
Would you be happier if she decided to bring up all the DCs on her own?

MammaTJ Thu 24-Jan-13 20:20:52

I can top that with 5 DC, 5 different fathers, but as long as the DC are loved and cared for, it doesn't matter.

Depends on the dads. Chaotic, violent, abusive ones who have had to be thrown out of the family home would have a negative impact. Nice, involved ones who can be civil to her and all the DC will have a positive impact in showing DC that you can be separated parents and decent people, and that extended families are good.

t0lk13n Thu 24-Jan-13 20:22:17

No I just can`t believe you are being so shock about a relative. How someone else lives their life has absolutely nothing to do with you. So I have no opinion on it except to say thank God you are not my niece!

McNewPants2013 Thu 24-Jan-13 20:27:24

What I judge is the useless fuckers that have abondoned there children, not this women who has taken on full responsibility of her children.

Isn't she entitled to find love again or have sex,yes she is and that useless fucker also left her a single mother.

She has attempted a 3rd time and I hope this man doesn't just fuck off and leave her a single mum yet again.

TandB Thu 24-Jan-13 20:28:26

Well obviously the situation isn't absolutely ideal, in that it would be better for all eight of the children to have their biological fathers interested in them and having a positive effect on their lives.

But if their step-father is a good man who loves and supports them, then it may not be much of an issue.

I can't possibly imagine that this woman thought "I know - I'll have six children with these two deadbeats and then look for a nice man for another couple of kids." I would imagine she had children with someone she expected things to work out with, was left high and dry, but moved on and started a new relationship, in which she thought she could bring up her existing children and the children she wanted to have with her partner. When that didn't work out, she met someone else and wanted to have his children. And it sounds as though that's not going too badly if he is supporting all eight children and if he is actively involved in bringing them all up.

In any event, the children are here now, so there's no point wishing things had turned out differently.

HollyBerryBush Thu 24-Jan-13 20:29:41

Op - do you not think sort of scenario was quite common after both world wars?

And if you care to dig back in history - most women that got through child bearing tended to carelessly lose husbands in wars and skirmishes and pick up another one who had avoided being mortally wounded!

Step families are not a modern day phenomenen

StuckForAUserName Thu 24-Jan-13 20:32:06

Actually I grew up without my real father and my stepfather was horrible, that is probably why I have taken an interest in this situation.

I cannot understand why she would have more children after the 1st husband left her with 4 DC, she then repeated it with the next 2 DC.

As a mother myself, I find it extremely selfish and MammaTJ I hope your DC agree with you when they are adults.

StuckForAUserName Thu 24-Jan-13 20:34:44

Isn't she entitled to find love again or have sex,yes she is and that useless fucker also left her a single mother.

Absolutely, but did she have to bring more DC into it?

Fairylea Thu 24-Jan-13 20:35:26

I think you are missing the point a little ... everyone enters into a relationship believing it is the one, life long etc. So when she already had the first lot of children, she fell in love, thought that was "it" and had more... she obviously didn't anticipate the same thing happening again. Or again.

Or are single parents supposed to give up once they've had their one shot at it??

80sMum Thu 24-Jan-13 20:38:24

YANB at all U to think that OP. I think it highly probable, sadly.

DumSpiroSpero Thu 24-Jan-13 20:41:54

You've obviously had a very bad experience with your own step father, so I can see why this situation has touched a nerve but surely you must be able to see it is you that has the issue here, not your aunt.

I'm a bit shocked that you would be so unsupportive to be bad mouthing your own family member on the internet over her life choices & family set up tbh. Within my extended family there are all sorts of nuclear family situations, beliefs & odd characters. We're not close as we're spread out all over the country but I wouldn't dream of slating them on a public forum (or judging them privately tbh). For that alone I would say YABU, not to mention disloyal and bloody rude.

CaptChaos Thu 24-Jan-13 20:41:56

YABU

My DH is not my DS's biological father, he is his actual father however, given that he is there for him, provides for him, does 'dad' things with him. I'm sorry you didn't like your SF, maybe some help with that might be in order if you are going to project your difficulties onto happy families.

Military families are effectively single parent ones are they? I think I notice a difference, it's the large chap, wears MTP a lot, makes us all very happy.

Get over yourself.

sweetkitty Thu 24-Jan-13 20:43:10

I think your anger should be focused on the two useless men who fathered children then walked away from them. I just don't understand how any decent man can do this?

DialsMavis Thu 24-Jan-13 20:43:53

Is the number of children or the number of fathers that has hoiked those judge pants so far up your pious backside?

I have 2 DC with 2 Dads, If DP and I split up (unlikely, I hope) and I met someone else and wanted another then I would have 3 by 3 different men

PassMeTheWino Thu 24-Jan-13 20:46:07

I knew a very lovely woman who had seven children by 7 different men, I kid you not.

I just didnt understand it, she seemed like such a sane, well adjusted, lovely person. Clearly with terrible judgement though.

I feel it was a saving grace in some ways that all the fathers were shit apart from the last one who she married, and is a fab father to all of them.

I hope they're still married anyway, Ive not spoken to her in years.

McNewPants2013 Thu 24-Jan-13 20:55:38

So single mothers should be sterilised because how date they have more children when they are in a new relationship

LynetteScavo Thu 24-Jan-13 21:02:37

YABU. I have a friend in a similar situation and she does an amazing job of raising her DC. We are all in awe. Especially as she grows all her own organic veg, and had makes the most amazing costumes for world book day. It certainly doesn't seem to have had a detrimental impact on her DC.

And her house is fabulously furnished in they style of Kirsty Allsop.

The father of her eldest DC is not around as he is/was in prison

HappyMummyOfOne Thu 24-Jan-13 21:03:29

Having witnessed several step parents treat their own biological children differently to the others i dont think YABU as you state thats whats happening here.

The choices people make as an adult are theres to make but they have a huge amount of responsibility to their existing children.

I wonder how many half brothers/sisters believe they were treated equally or whether they felt second best.

wow you sound lovely , pull your knickers from up your backside and carry on with your own life and let her do the same

fuckadoodlepoopoo Thu 24-Jan-13 21:10:22

Wow that's a lot of kids! Im just amazed that she can manage that many! I think i quite admire her!

The only worrying thing you have said is the favoritism. Its great that her most recent partner is happy to bring up the other children but they MUST be treated equally or it will be disastrous for them. I really hope you are wrong about that sad

MammaTJ Thu 24-Jan-13 20:20:52 I can top that with 5 DC, 5 different fathers, but as long as the DC are loved and cared for, it doesn't matter.

Do you mean that you have that situation or a friend of yours?

Fakebook Thu 24-Jan-13 21:10:40

I'm a bit shocked that you would be so unsupportive to be bad mouthing your own family member on the internet over her life choices & family set up tbh.

Really? Have you ever taken a tally on how many AIBU threads are about family members? It's the norm here, nothing to be shocked about really.

DumSpiroSpero Thu 24-Jan-13 21:13:43

Well Fakebook, I see what you mean, but I think there's a different between 'x family member has done y to piss me off' and casting massive aspertions on their most significant life choices & family set up.

BumpingFuglies Thu 24-Jan-13 21:14:32

Actually, OP, unless you have a particular interest, keep your nose out. Really. You have no idea about the circumstances.

BlackMaryJanes Thu 24-Jan-13 21:15:51

YANBU.

I can't understand women who have children to three or more men. It comes across as fickle and making light of reproduction. Sorry but it does.

BumpingFuglies Thu 24-Jan-13 21:18:38

BlackMary I very much doubt that a woman has 3 children by 3 different men because she is "fickle" or "making light of reproduction".

BlackMaryJanes Thu 24-Jan-13 21:20:51

BumpingFuglies breeding without thinking, or breeding too soon, or just choosing arseholes. Take your pick. Either way it's not in the child's best interests.

McNewPants2013 Thu 24-Jan-13 21:25:32

Ffs.

So is a women is meant to have a crystal ball

Chubfuddler Thu 24-Jan-13 21:28:52

You could be describing my uncles mother. She had twelve children by three different fathers. Despite some of these events taking place in the 1940s she - shock horror - wasn't even married to the second man. They pretended to be.

She was a wonderful mother and everyone loved her.

DumSpiroSpero Thu 24-Jan-13 21:32:57

Or perhaps being in an abusive relationship & being lucky enough to get out and have a second chance with someone lovely. Or being widowed & fortunate enough to fall in love again.

My nan was widowed with 2 boys under three & another on the way halfway through WW2. They were evacuated to the NE where they lived in a commune, but when she returned to the East End after the war found she couldn't cope on her own & my dad and his brothers were taken into care. Several years later (my dad was 14 when his Dsis arrived) nan met someone else & had 2 more children (out of wedlock too shock).

I am bloody grateful to my 'feckless' nan because I truly believe that helping to raise his baby sister (having had little experience of growing up in a family setting himself) made my dad the fantastic father & grandpa he is to me & my DD.

Just because a family situation isn't conventional or 'ideal' doesn't necessarily mean it will be damaging.

McNewPants2013 Thu 24-Jan-13 21:38:56

Everything as a parent will have an effect on our children.

Sometimes positive sometimes negitive. All we can do is the best in the situation. As long are children are well cared for there should be no lasting damage.

My friend has never had any desire to meet her sperm doner, her mum has told her the truth about him and it was never a secret. I think her mum after all the hurt he put her through she saw pass it.

thekidsrule Thu 24-Jan-13 21:41:42

why are three dc's at boarding school op

FanFuckingTastic Thu 24-Jan-13 21:47:23

Totally just depends on the circumstances, nothing to do with numbers.

Two to two here and doing my best.

Sparklyboots Thu 24-Jan-13 22:00:10

I can't see why the fact the DC are 'only' halves would inherently damage the DC. I do think there is potential for 'damage' where a DC has beenio effectively abandoned by a parent as the first two fathers seem to have done, but then I was abandoned by my DF and can't really say that it's a massive handicap. Nothing about the situation necessitates damage but it does have to be handled with care by the adults involved.

I'm actually more interested in your reasons for getting so hot under the collar, OP? Even in the case that the relevant adults aren't doing a great job, it's hard to see how complaining about them on the internet is helping. If you are concerned about the DC's feelings of stability, focus on being a loving and stable adult in their lives, which would include showing unconditional, unjudgemental affection to their DM, or else you risk making them feel guilty about loving you when you are ambivalent to their DM. If you must complain about anyone, it's the men who abandoned the children, not the woman who continues to provide a loving family home for them in the best way she knows how.

spiritedaway Thu 24-Jan-13 22:01:40

I have 4 to 2. One of whom is supporting his and one who is mad, bad and thankfully not around, touch wood. My new partner would love to be dad to my little two Dc's. No crystal balls. YABU and should probably deal with your own issues and not project them onto others whose situation triggers your past hurt.

PelvicFloorClenchReminder Thu 24-Jan-13 22:04:55

What a bloody lovely person you are, OP hmm

Why not congratulate yourself on your own luck rather than denigrating others who have had the opposite.

spiritedaway Thu 24-Jan-13 22:05:02

Sparkly I like your post. smile

I have 5 dc with 3 fathers, ds was a contraception fail. We were very young and the relationship didn't work out. He hasn't been a fantastic father by any means. However ds1 has always had contact with him and has turned out perfectly well regardless.

Ds2 was born 8 years later. Exh is a good father, we still get on well and parent together.

Ds3 was born 8 years after ds2, a bit of a theme going on! Dp has a very good relationship with ds1&2 and doesn't treat them any different to ds3.

whois Thu 24-Jan-13 22:13:32

I think it is incredible selfish of the mum (and new partner) to bring more children into a relationship like that. All they are doing it trying to create a common bond, not actually thinking "hey this family really wants and can cope with 2 more children". Having children does not fix relationships or being you closer together if there are ready cracks.

I find the act of having multiple children by multiple dads a foolish one.

Appreciate many many many other people would strongly disagree with that.

McNewPants2013 Thu 24-Jan-13 22:16:23

why is it foolish.

FanFuckingTastic Thu 24-Jan-13 22:20:43

Please do explain the foolish comment? I'm intrigued.

I adore my children and have pretty normal relationships with their fathers, who mostly adore their children, if are a bit annoying at times. I have always explained it to them as have an extra big family, that not only do they get to have their at home family and siblings, but they get to have a massive family outside of that too, and my son has brothers, and my daughter has sisters, and they love that. They come home and have me always, but they see love in many shapes and forms from their extended family, and I like to think it shapes them into loving people.

renaldo Thu 24-Jan-13 22:24:44

I think the opinion Of the DCs is more important than the parents .most people I know brought up with step siblings did struggle with perceived favouritism and mothers with a series of different fathers of thier children need to think more of the children than their own love like frankly

DSM Thu 24-Jan-13 22:31:09

Why are some of you so quick to condemn and vilify the mothers, who have possibly made mistakes, possibly made bad choices with men?

A woman who has DC and then becomes single shouldn't be allowed to find love and add to their family? And if she does find love, should that man not be entitled to father children of his own?

And if that relationship breaks down, well god forbid she ever even consider trying again. How dare she.

But let's not talk about the men - the ones who have abandoned their children, or the ones who are lovingly bringing up someone else's children. Irrelevant men.

My dc all love each other, they don't have any step siblings unless you mean half siblings?

Ds1 always wanted a sibling but I wasn't going to ask his opinion on the matter. Ds2 loves being an older brother and ds1 who is 18 loves having the littlest around, Ds3 is always so happy to see him he says it makes his day.

If anything ds2 believes ds1 is favoured, because he gets to do what he wants more. Obviously this is because ds1 is an adult and has nothing to do with favouritism or the fact they have different fathers

ledkr Thu 24-Jan-13 22:35:02

Moron!
I have 3 fathers for my children who are all balanced individuals.
Ds1 and 2 from my first relationship he was very violent so I left.
Ds3 and dd1 from my 18 yr marriage. Ended with him cheating.
Dd2 from my new 6 yr marriage.
I have worked all my life and brought up my children very well thank you.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Thu 24-Jan-13 22:55:26

Ledkr. Out of interest, how old were you when you had your first child and most recent?

BeanJuice Thu 24-Jan-13 23:00:09

OP if you ever dare to post things about number of children/family arrangements that don't seem too good you will get flamed on MN for being too judgey grin i wouldn't bother

rhondajean Thu 24-Jan-13 23:12:35

I don't judge in situations like that but I do think how incredibly complicated life must be, especially of all the dads are involved, and what an amazing logistical job the mums must do. I also posted a thread before Christmas, prompted by a conversation with some one I know with three kids by three dads, about how you cope when one dad and his family buy more and are more involved than others.

I just think life must be so so complicated. I barely hold it together with one father still living with us!

I'm just shock at someone having 8 children in the first place. EIGHT! As my mother used to say of a neighbour who had five DC - does her telly not work or something?

simonedeboudoir Thu 24-Jan-13 23:24:36

Jesus OP. You clearly have too much time on your hands confused

Mine have never shown any type of jealousy towards what the other gets or does with their dads, that could be due to the age gap though.

We take it in turns at Christmas with ds2, this year he was with his dad Xmas eve until 12 Christmas day, next year I'll have him Christmas eve and drop him off Christmas day. Ds1 goes to his dads family after dinner on Christmas day.

MammaTJ Fri 25-Jan-13 06:28:51

As a mother myself, I find it extremely selfish and MammaTJ I hope your DC agree with you when they are adults.

I wasn't talking about myself, I actually have three DC two different fathers.

My Husband left me after ten years of marriage. He had been having an affair for 6 months.

Should I then have lived like a nun and not met my DP and had more children? Really? I was only in my mid 30s when he moved out.

LovesBeingWokenEveryNight Fri 25-Jan-13 06:33:57

Are you judging her on what she has chosen to do or how things have ended up? If its the second you need to learn some empathy and understanding. Do you think this is how she planned her life , or this is how things ended up and she has learnt from it and her children are loved and well brought up?

StressDaily Fri 25-Jan-13 06:36:06

How bizarre.

HecateWhoopass Fri 25-Jan-13 06:40:26

So. Once a woman has had a child with a man, that's it? If the relationship breaks down she is allowed to find another person to love, but shouldn't have any more children?

Does this apply to the men too? If you have a child with a woman and leave - you can't go on to father more children with someone else?

Perhaps as a condition of divorce/separation, woman should be sterilised and men have the snip.

And no, I have no personal beef here. My children both have the same father. Who I am still married to.

In an ideal world, you would find the person who you wanted to spend the rest of your life with (if you wanted to spend your life with one person grin ) and they would be wonderful and you would be wonderful and you'd have children and they would be wonderful...

But life has a habit of not working out how you expected it to.

I don't think many women go into a situation thinking ok, I'll have one with him and then sod off to the next bloke...

and ! even if someone DID - that is not as important as whether or not any children that they do have are raised well, loved and cared for.

children with different fathers does not in itself mean disadvantaged, neglected, bad.

If the mother is good and the fathers are good and the children are raised well and everyone is parenting cooperatively - it's not the end of the world!

ledkr Fri 25-Jan-13 07:07:02

fuckadoo 17 and 43!!! It's just how my life turned out really.
Big age gaps and they all adore each other. My boys were teens when x left and they took care of their baby did after school while I worked.
We don't fit any stereotypes that people ike the op believe.
I have two professional qualifications, all my boys went through further education and all have good jobs, I own my own home.
I am great friends with my ex and his family and my new dh not only took on my dd but Is very supportive if the older ones too.
Our own baby was unexpected but an amazing addition to our family.
Most women these days have more than one sexual relationship it'd just that some produce babies.
I love it on here when people suggest that mothers become lonely unfulfilled martyrs when they are mothers.
Because yes that would be truly useful to the children wouldn't it hmm

fuckadoodlepoopoo Fri 25-Jan-13 07:58:16

I was wondering how you fitted them all in when you had an 18 year marriage in the middle! Good work smile

Paiviaso Fri 25-Jan-13 09:35:57

YANBU

I believe having a stable environment is really important for children, and having children with a man, separating, having children with another man, separating, having a children with another man...it must be incredibly tough on all the children involved, however "well cared for" they are.

I think perhaps it is a good thing they are being sent to boarding school.

boredSAHMof4 Fri 25-Jan-13 09:43:15

Looking at it factually then yes, you are right- Children do best with a stable home life.
But crikey there is no need for those judgey pants! Do you think she set out thinking 'I want to have my children by 3 different fathers?'
DH and I have been married 22 years , but none of us know what is round the corner...

DrinkFeckArseGirls Fri 25-Jan-13 09:43:37

Are you sure it's not 3 kids by 8 different fathers?

VinegarTits Fri 25-Jan-13 09:46:07

if this were a man who was looking after all his 8 children, because his first 2 dw's ficked off leaving him holding the babies and while his 3rd wife works away, he would be seen as a bloody hero!

VinegarTits Fri 25-Jan-13 09:47:08

ficked? hmm

oooh i may have just invented a new swear word [proud]

LetMeAtTheWine Fri 25-Jan-13 10:00:17

Am I the only one who is a little confused by the comment this is a middle class family btw not a family of 'benefit scroungers' ?

What difference does that make, would you not think it was 'terrible' if she was, as you so eloquently put it, 'a benefit scrounger'? Or is it only 'terrible' because the situation involves a 'middle class' family?

BlackMaryJanes Fri 25-Jan-13 10:06:26

Or perhaps being in an abusive relationship & being lucky enough to get out and have a second chance with someone lovely.

He obviously wasn't 'lovely' because she didn't stop with no2.

ThingummyBob Fri 25-Jan-13 10:18:32

I have two dcs by two fathers. I knew when exH and I split up that I wouldn't have another; even though the plan was to have another at the time. I wanted three really, I am one of three so maybe thats why grin

For this reason I only date men who already have one or two dcs themselves, I'd never want to be in a situation where I had a partner who further down the line wanted a child. I just don't want to have three or more by three fathers. In my own view two is one too many enough.

I appreciate thats just my opinion though and wouldn't/judge others for their choices.

BlackMaryJanes Fri 25-Jan-13 10:19:31

having children with a man, separating, having children with another man, separating, having a children with another man...it must be incredibly tough on all the children involved

I couldn't agree more.

If I ever split from DH, I am not having any more children. I will focus on the children I already have.

VinegarTits Fri 25-Jan-13 10:26:50

i have 2 by 2, i also have a lovely grandson now smile but if i meet another partner i wouldnt rule out having another <judge away> im still young and fertile, and its nobodys business but mine, i dont live my life to please society, there is no law about how many children you can have to different men

however i do think it should be a criminal offence for men to father children then fuck off and not support them financially

BlackMaryJanes Fri 25-Jan-13 10:33:50

im still young and fertile

And that's all that matters? It would appear so.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Fri 25-Jan-13 10:40:49

having children with a man, separating, having children with another man, separating, having a children with another man...it must be incredibly tough on all the children involved

We shouldn't judge other people as most people have said, but there is no denying the above.

VinegarTits Fri 25-Jan-13 10:41:55

who said thats all that matters? dont put words words into my mouth dear

of course its not all that matters, being finacially stable and able to provide a loving home is what matters most, i am in a fortunate position to be able to provide both of those things so why shouldnt i have another child if i wanted too?

mrsjay Fri 25-Jan-13 10:46:55

I find it extremely selfish and MammaTJ I hope your DC agree with you when they are adults.

that is a horrible thing to say to anybody shock and i loved how you OP said this auntie was not a benefit scrounger as if that was to be expected of them if your cousins are cared for and loved then I don't see it as a problem, many children are brought up with the same parents and have a truly awful childhood with many issues as adults

mrsjay Fri 25-Jan-13 10:48:51

Am I the only one who is a little confused by the comment this is a middle class family btw not a family of 'benefit scroungers' ?

I didn't go un noticed by me either,

fuckadoodlepoopoo Fri 25-Jan-13 10:52:55

I don't think the benefit comment is confusing at all! These threads always start with loads of assumptions that the family can't afford all their kids and must not work or be scroungers. I think the op was avoiding that by making the financial situation of the family clear.

threesocksmorgan Fri 25-Jan-13 10:53:05

yabu for saying benefit scroungers/
so glad I am not related to you op

FlorriesDragons Fri 25-Jan-13 10:53:59

YAB judgemental but fwiw I grew up in a blended family with half and step brothers and sisters and although it worked out fine it isn't what I would ideally want for my own children.

If DH and I split I cannot see myself having any more children with anyone else in any circumstances but of course he could always choose to do that, taking the decision out of my hands. grin

Life isn't ideal is it, you just have to work with what you have.

Why must it be incredibly tough on the children?

VinegarTits Fri 25-Jan-13 10:57:41

having children with a man, separating, having children with another man, separating, having a children with another man...it must be incredibly tough on all the children involved

unless they are living on the streets or being abused in some way, why?

LineRunner Fri 25-Jan-13 11:00:38

I'm still delighting in the assumption about single parents.

DontHaveAtv Fri 25-Jan-13 11:02:13

yabu You are being judgmental. The women could have 8 kids by one man and they could all grow up miserable. You just sound like a gossipy old woman.

catkitson Fri 25-Jan-13 11:05:52

I don't see why it is any of anyone else's business, presuming they are all cared for and fed. Moralistic bollocks.

LetMeAtTheWine Fri 25-Jan-13 11:17:47

fuckadoodle - surely if the OP's concern is that 'having 8 DC by 3 different fathers may well have a detrimental impact on the DCs' the financial situation / social class is irrelevant. Or does the impact on children of a 'benefit scrounger' not matter? I personally can't see how having more, or less, money makes a difference.

Having said all that the term implies that anyone on benefits is a 'scrounger' and is therefore a wholly inaccurate statement to make. So I would have probably commented on it anyway...

fromparistoberlin Fri 25-Jan-13 11:19:19

she sounds like a feral single mother chav

JAIL HER!!!!!!

Paiviaso Fri 25-Jan-13 11:43:45

I think it incredibly sad that several posters have to ask how the OP's situation might be tough on the children.

Do you not think it is hard to watch your parents split up? I don't know the circumstances of the OP's aunt, but with separation the children may experience:

antagonism between the parents, use of the children as "pawns" to hurt each other, seeing one or both parents a lot less, shuffling between homes, financial hardship, moving, and the introduction of new boyfriends/girlfriends.

Now times this by two or three. How incredibly stressful for a child.

A lot of you are saying, "life happens." If that is the case, then this woman has been incredibly unlucky - but much more likely I think this woman is not good at picking suitable partners, and is not learning from her past mistakes. And her children will suffer, because they do not have stability, do not have contact with their fathers (except for the youngest two), and are "raised" by a man who prefers the children he fathered to the rest. Perhaps they are well fed and clothed, but that does not make up for a broken home.

Hence my earlier comment about boarding school perhaps being a good place for them.

cory Fri 25-Jan-13 11:45:05

As Holly points out, this would have been a normal situation in any time of human history up until after the Second World War. Spouses died, the remaining spouse was expected to remarry as soon as possible after the fixed period of mourning in order to provide a family for the children (and, if possibly, more children).

fuckadoodlepoopoo Fri 25-Jan-13 11:50:23

Letmeatthewine. I wasn't arguing the ops case, but pointing out why she would have mentioned the financial situation, even though you would have thought it would be obvious.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Fri 25-Jan-13 11:55:05

Paiviaso good points. Some on here seem to ignore those facts. Probably because they don't think the woman should be judged which is fine and true, but you can still acknowledge that its not a perfect situation and it may have a detrimental affect on some children and still not be a big judgey judgmental pants at the same time.

VinegarTits Fri 25-Jan-13 11:56:12

i think its incredibly sad that people make assumptions that all children from broken homes must be sad and have gone through some sort of truama and are being shuffled between their parents homes!

i also think its outrageous to assume this woman hasnt learnt from past mistakes because she has had 3 partners! people do fall out of love you know, its doesnt make them bad people, doesnt mean the whole relationship was a mistake!

VinegarTits Fri 25-Jan-13 11:57:50

good points my arse, judgy points yes

cory Fri 25-Jan-13 11:58:55

Of course it may not be an ideal situation. Do we know that she chose to split up?

And again, do we know that all children in "unbroken" homes live in ideal situations? You only have to read relationship threads on here for a few minutes to realise that divorce is not necessarily the worst thing that can happen to a child.

VinegarTits Fri 25-Jan-13 11:59:08

I don't know the circumstances of the OP's aunt nuff said

LetMeAtTheWine Fri 25-Jan-13 12:10:34

Fuckadoodle, my repsonse to you wasn't about you arguing the OP's case (whether you agree with her or not is totally matterless to me), it was about the fact that whether she is 'benefit scrounger' or not adds nothing to the post, nothing to the OP's argument and is not needed. It is COMPLETELY irrelevant and therefore the point of it being included is not obvious. Even after your comments I still can't find a reason for it being made, the fact in other posts it may be noted does not mean it contributes to this one - no-one needs to know the financial situation after all.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Fri 25-Jan-13 12:30:44

Letmeatthewine. no-one needs to know the financial situation after all.

No i agree, but it would have been mentioned anyway, probably A LOT. So i think the op only mentioned it to avoid it turning into the predictable "large broken families equals out of work benefit scroungers" debate that it always turns into anyway.

LetMeAtTheWine Fri 25-Jan-13 12:40:31

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one! As I have already said - her social class is irrelevant to whether the number of fathers will have an detrimental affect on the children and I still massively oppose the term 'scroungers' that was used, which I would have done even if that information was relevant. Perhaps because of my own view of the statements (lack of) importance/relevance I cannot understand why anyone would have brought it up if it had not been mentioned. Stereotyping people who have children to more than one father is unfair in all cases, as is sterotyping people who recieve benefits.
I have also just realised that it has annoyed me that much, I haven't actually addressed (or even thought about) to OP's initial point. Am off to mull this over...

MrsDeVere Fri 25-Jan-13 12:46:36

As an adoptive parent with birth children I find some of the comments on this thread offensive.
It is perfectly possible to love children you have not 'fathered' as much as the ones you have.

I would challenge anyone to pick our adoptive boy out of a line up with his brothers.

no doubt there are some blended families that are shite but do not assume that there will be favouritism.

VinegarTits Fri 25-Jan-13 12:47:24

i think the op only mentioned the middle class thing to avoid the 'well i hope they are supportng all those children themselves and not letting the state pay for them' posts

even though i hate the term middle class and i know plenty of 'middle class' people who are on benefits

Dahlen Fri 25-Jan-13 14:09:18

The title of this OP can be roughly translated as saying that having numerous children by several different fathers is indicative of:

Poor judgement (repeatedly choosing poor fathers)
Self absorption (putting your own needs for a partnership and cementing it with more children before the needs of any existing children)
Chaotic home life (characterised by serial relationship breakdown and the fall out that usually ensues, particularly for the children).

Sadly, I think that's probably true in more cases than it isn't. But it would be a mistake to assume that it applies in all or even most cases. There are too many variables at play to make a blanket judgement.

Ironically, the sort of mother who has several children by several fathers without actually having a long-term, cohabiting/married relationship with any of them, is offering a more stable existence for her children because the primary relationships they will have will be with their mother and each other - and that won't change. Given that nearly half of all relationships (married and cohabiting combined) in which children are produced go on to fail, perhaps we should model the ideal family on the single mother. I can just imagine the frothing that statement will produce though.

AGivenNickname Fri 25-Jan-13 14:44:24

I'm a mum to three with 2 different dads...I guess it puts me in the category too. shock

If judgey pants are on, do I get extra points if I reveal I was also a teen mum too? hmm

I was a teen mum too, the children are doomed!

Dahlen Fri 25-Jan-13 15:15:29

I think the thing that always strikes me as nonsensical about this sort of thing is that <insert your choice of 'dysfunctional'> family is always compared to the lofty mum/dad/2.4 DC 'happy' family ideal.

The trouble is, many of these 'ideal' nuclear families are hiding their own dysfunctions - DV and infidelity to name just two huge ones that are rife and yet don't always result in relationship breakdown.

IMO, a happy, stable family is one where the members all interact with each other in a healthy way, and where everyone is encouraged to pursue their own individual happiness but also to pull together for the greater good of the family overall. That can happen despite divorce, death, moving house, new siblings (by a different father) and all sort of numerous other 'traumas'.

Whereas a mother who has more children with a serial abuser/adulterer/irresponsible father may look to the outside world as though she's more stable, but she'll certainly be putting her children at more risk of emotional harm than the mother who left a bad relationship (so modelling self-reliance and good boundaries) and then went on to form a new, healthy relationship and then had another child.

That said, a mother who is on her third or fourth abusive/unfaithful partner should certainly be questioning whether her judgement needs some working on, although it's also worth asking what it is about society that places the responsibility for this on the mother, rather than the father who abuses/cheats/fails to take responsibility.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 15:33:56

No Dahlen,

The fact that 'we' have been modelling the ideal family on the single mother is the reason for many of societies problems today.

What are you on about? So societies problems are due to single mothers?

What are you on about? So societies problems are due to single mothers?

cory Fri 25-Jan-13 15:40:48

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 15:33:56
"No Dahlen,

The fact that 'we' have been modelling the ideal family on the single mother is the reason for many of societies problems today."

Oooh, this gives me an opportunity for my first WTF ever!

WTF!

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 15:41:07

or fatherless children

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 15:41:58

I'm happy to shre your excitement cory

cory Fri 25-Jan-13 15:46:00

My friend's dd refused to leave her abusive partner. He killed her. Society's problem solved then?

A child in dd's school was severely disturbed from having actually watched his father kill his mother. But of course it would have been a lot worse if she had left him. At least, she wasn't a single mother... hmm

Another friend of mine has never been able to trust a man having spent her childhood observing how her father's serial cheating was covered up by the family.

My mother told my father when they got engaged that you will have to let me go if I find it doesn't work for me. It has been a very happy marriage for over 50 years.

cory Fri 25-Jan-13 15:48:33

Another family friend was devastated having found out in his late teens that what he thought was the stable relationship of his parents was in fact a sham: they fell apart when he was in the womb and never had a working relationship after that- they just never told him (or any of us). His ideas of what a marriage looks like must be pretty skewed.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 15:49:14

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

I have not said the people should not leave abusive relationships.

You may not be able to bring your children up on your own without them causing problems for society, doesn't mean everyone else is the same

cory Fri 25-Jan-13 15:51:48

What about unhappy ones? Like in my last post. The man was not abusive but for 16 years it was not a relationship either. What do you think it feels like to find out in your teens like actually you thought we had a marriage like everybody else, but we were just telling a story? Would you feel like you could trust people after that?

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 15:52:05

But would you not agree that any child of a parent with multiple children from multiple realtionships have a 'skewed' view of marriage or relationships, again, i'm not sure what your point is?

Dahlen Fri 25-Jan-13 15:52:11

Is it Hillary? Or have you just unquestioningly swallowed a load of conservative (small c) propaganda?

Why do we have an increase in single mothers? That's the question we should be asking. The answers throw up some interesting facts.

It's easier to leave a marriage these days than at any point in history. If something becomes easier, more people do it. That doesn't necessarily mean that people take it less seriously or that society is becoming more feckless.

I think it means that women in unhappy marriages no longer have to put up with being abused, cheated on, having their career ambitions resolutely placed second, or generally treated like an unpaid domestic servant.

Did you know that the rate of DV is 3x higher among g single mothers than it is in coupled families? That to me says that DV is one of the biggest reasons women become single mothers. Today they can leave their abusive partners and protect their children (because let's be clear that witnessing abuse of a parent IS child abuse).

Did you know that contrary to what the DM would have you believe, less than 2% of single mothers are teenagers on benefits? Most are mid-30s, post divorce, and most work. They have not taken the decision to become a single parent lightly.

Did you know most single parents don't receive any child maintenance and have a 2x higher risk of being in poverty as a result of taking on sole responsibility for child care and it's costs.

Did you know that, despite these handicaps, if you take poverty out of the equation, the outcomes for the children of single mothers are no different to the outcomes of children from famlies where the parents are still together. It is deprivation that causes the increase in crime, violence and poor educational outcomes, not the single parent status of the mother.

Of course, we could say that the way to tackle poverty is to force women to stay in bad or unhappy relationships. Personally, I'd prefer to change society to ensure that when a couple split up, both parents take practical and financial responsibility for their children (this means giving the CSA some much-needed teeth and sharing residency more).

cory Fri 25-Jan-13 15:52:15

Ime most people get divorced for very serious reasons. Unless they choose to stay and tell lies, of course.

BlackMaryJanes Fri 25-Jan-13 15:52:33

What Paiviaso said. Excellent post.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 15:53:38

Moomin,

There is no evidence at present that my child has caused any problems for society, why would you assume such a thing?

AGivenNickname Fri 25-Jan-13 15:54:09

I'm sorry abusive or not, if you are not happy in the particular relationship and feel it better to end it - why not? Sometimes that might make you a single parent but so what? It's better than staying with someone just for the children and habouring resentment.

cory Fri 25-Jan-13 15:59:34

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 15:52:05 "
"But would you not agree that any child of a parent with multiple children from multiple realtionships have a 'skewed' view of marriage or relationships, again, i'm not sure what your point is? "

But surely if the woman had not found her third partner, that would have meant the children growing up fatherless, seeing that the first and second father had already gone out of their lives? So what is worse if they now get a loving father? Surely any "skewedness" would result from the departure of the original parent, not from the mother finding a new one.

You seem to want it both ways: single mothers are bad, but finding a new partner is also bad: what did you want the poor woman to do then, once partner 1 had gone? Is there any other choice than either being a single mother or having a new partner?

Besides, as I have pointed out before, this situation- a parent with multiple children from multiple relationships - has been the norm for most of human history, until the lowering of mortality meant that people could actually have a choice. Doing research on my own and dh's history confirms this: step parents abound. Does that mean that everybody that grew up with a step-parent in medieval, Renaissance, Victorian times would have a skewed view, too?

BlackMaryJanes Fri 25-Jan-13 15:59:57

Did you know that, despite these handicaps, if you take poverty out of the equation, the outcomes for the children of single mothers are no different to the outcomes of children from famlies where the parents are still together.

Highly depends what 'outcomes' you're talking about.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 16:00:54

In response to Dahlen,

What is the conservative propaganda you mention, I'm intrigued?

Why do we have more single mothers? Please tell me the answers.

I cannot make sense of your 4th paragraph.

Do you have any supporting evidence that DV is responsible for making mothers single?

I do agree to some degree with your final paragraph, both parents take financial responsibility, CSA and shared parenting... I would be happy to debate

BlackMaryJanes Fri 25-Jan-13 16:01:08

single mothers are bad, but finding a new partner is also bad: what did you want the poor woman to do then

Find a partner by all means, but stop breeding.

Hillary so you are a single parent then?

So how come you can bring your dc up on your own without them causing problems to society but you feel other single mothers can't?

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 16:06:06

I agree with Blackmary,

What outcomes are you referring to?

Statistically children growing up without a Father are far more susceptible to a myriad of problems.

AGivenNickname Fri 25-Jan-13 16:09:14

But what if that father can't be bothered? Who's to blame then? Single mothers still?

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 16:10:58

Moomin,

I don't and have stated that I do.

I cannot say that my daughter will not cause problems to society, but, I have focused on being a parent to my daughter and not on new relationships and having more children.

I do believe, I do not blame, that many parents try to create, or re create a 'perfect family' which is ultimately a selfish choice that research does show is very difficult to achieve with results showing how difficult this can be.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 16:14:21

AGiven,

No, absolutely not.

Absolutely FUCK a 'father' that walks away from his own children and I do not think that single mothers are to blame for that.

But, two or three times... then who is the common denominator?

BlackMaryJanes Fri 25-Jan-13 16:17:05

I have focused on being a parent to my daughter and not on new relationships and having more children.

Good for you. Selfless responsible parenting.

But, two or three times... then who is the common denominator?

Amen.

cory Fri 25-Jan-13 16:17:45

BlackMaryJanes Fri 25-Jan-13 16:01:08
"single mothers are bad, but finding a new partner is also bad: what did you want the poor woman to do then

Find a partner by all means, but stop breeding. "

Why? My dn has hardly been disadvantaged by the fact that my brother provided her with two siblings as well as bringing her up and being a devoted father to her from the age of 3. How would she have been better off if her mother had stopped breeding?

cory Fri 25-Jan-13 16:19:09

And how would dn have been better off if her mother had concentrated on bringing her up and not having a new relationship- thus depriving her of a loving father from the age of 3, and a grandfather to her own children?

PleasePudding Fri 25-Jan-13 16:19:50

I know it's choice but 8 children - that is a lot of children, I get that boarding school might help with ensuring everyone gets enough attention.

I'm sure the OP mentioned that they are not 'benefit scroungers' to stop anyone assuming this and thinking that you shouldn't have 8 children unless you can afford them - which surely is relevant to whether it's a reasonable set-up or not. Whether the term benefit scroungers is harsh and judgemental is surely a different point.

In not saying that you can't have 8 children and give them all equal love and attention but the OP says this is not happening. On the strength of this then I think the OP is not being unreasonable in this case to question the wisdom of having more children if you can't care for then even if you have the financial resources. But this is all subjective and the OP doesn't know for sure this is the case and the children are probably better off than lots of others.

But surely you can come on AIBU and get riled and judgmental about this kind of stuff because isn't that what AIBU is for?

BiteTheTopsOffIcedGems Fri 25-Jan-13 16:20:14

LynetteScavo we know the same person then ;)

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 16:22:48

I too, Hope that one day I meet someone and for my daughter to be able to enjoy being a big sister, but, I do realise that her having a stable 'seperated' family is of far more importance.

I'm sorry but this thread stinks of disposable fatherness without question of why that may the case, impact on the children and the possible unique situations.

Does anyone have some gold stars to hand out?

Dahlen Fri 25-Jan-13 16:22:58

Hilary, as a starting point, check out the Gingerbread website. It bases most of its facts on ONS and DWP research, which can't be claimed to have an agenda (and if it does, it's certainly not a pro single mother one).

The 'conservative' (small c) propaganda I am referring to is simply an unquestioning acceptance of the status quo that all societies around the world encourage its members to adopt. It does not mean anything political. All enlightenment and destigmatising of disadvantaged groups, such as slaves, ethnic minorities, etc has resulted from people thinking a bit more critically and questioning the conservative approach.

The myriad of problems associated with the children of single mothers that you refer to apply only when the background of those children is one of deprivation. Take that out and there is no difference. There are numerous studies demonstrating this.

Please quote the paragraph you don't understand and I will rephrase.

And if your next partner leaves you will be in the same position as those mothers you are slating.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 16:26:51

Moomin, grow the fuck up.

BlackMaryJanes Fri 25-Jan-13 16:26:58

How would she have been better off if her mother had stopped breeding?

If you can't figure that out you are naive.

finances, attention, having only half-siblings, no bio-dad but her siblings do

ledkr Fri 25-Jan-13 16:27:42

Children 1 and 2 only babies and benefited greatly from me splitting from their abusive father. Lived a happy settled life with me for two years before I met dh1 who was already a friend and the children knew. Slowly spent more time together then married a d had ds3 very welcomed by 1 and 2 had a long gap then dd 1 came along. The boys were ecstatic and there at the birth. They were besotted.
After 18 yrs of being together he met someone else and left. Yes very tough on dc but no tougher than any other divorce maybe easier because I'd coped alone before so didn't fall apart.
Then after 4 yrs I met dh who had no children and is a real family man. He has been an asset to the children even the now grown boys.
I thought I couldn't have more children as I'd had chemo and was now 43 and dh married me knowing this. Happily tho dd came along two years ago and we are all delighted. Dd has a sister she adores and the boys too and they are happy for dh.

To those of you saying you would never have more children but aren't in that situation then really how can you know that?
If you meet a decent man who you love and loves you and accepts and is good to your children then why should he not have the chance for a child of his own? Why should we hide away and not have a chance to be part if a family again?

Don't judge until it happens to you.

Dahlen Fri 25-Jan-13 16:27:46

Tackle DV, tackle the idea that childcare and domestic tasks are primarily a woman's responsibility and I'd hazard a guess that the divorce rate would plummet and a lot less women would leave anyway.

But it's easier to blame the women for leaving than it is to get the men to change their behaviour.

And before you jump on that, no I don't believe that all men are like that, nor do I believe that women are always victims. However, I rather suspect that the men who treat their partners with respect and pull their weight at home are the ones who remain happily married, which speaks for itself really.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 16:28:49

and, I don't have a 'next partner' I am too busy being a parent to be even thinking about it.

If you're looking for love stop looking, it will find you when you're doing what you love, and all that.

acceptableinthe80s Fri 25-Jan-13 16:29:05

Really Hillary? Care to elaborate? Where can I find these statistics?

I think you'll find the difference in poor outcomes between 1 and 2 parent families is very small, something like 2%.
It's just put across in the media in such a way as to make you believe the statistical outcomes are wildly different.

The majority of children who grow up with issues are from 2 parent households as quite simply there are far more of them.

cory Fri 25-Jan-13 16:30:33

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 16:22:48
"I too, Hope that one day I meet someone and for my daughter to be able to enjoy being a big sister, but, I do realise that her having a stable 'seperated' family is of far more importance.

I'm sorry but this thread stinks of disposable fatherness without question of why that may the case, impact on the children and the possible unique situations. "

I think some of us may be coming from the totally opposite (and perhaps conservative) viewpoint of the benefit of good step parents to provide support and role models.

As I said, my niece did not miss out from in effect having a father (and a whole extended family of aunts and uncles and cousins) to replace the father who had already lost interest in her: it wasn't the stepdad who took her bio dad away from her, but he did go some way to replacing him.

My brother did not suffer from being brought up by adoptive parents having been abandoned at birth, though he did arguably suffer from the abandonment.

I don't see that this amounts to disposable fatherness.

BlackMaryJanes Fri 25-Jan-13 16:31:18

And how would dn have been better off if her mother had concentrated on bringing her up and not having a new relationship

Again, this is obvious.

This thread is about women who are serial daters and breeders. So for example, if we look at 3 kids to 3 different dads.

Kid 1 has to deal with not only their bio dad leaving but their next 'dad' leaving, then having to deal with a new 'dad' who may or may not leave.

Children do not thrive on instability.

BlackMaryJanes Fri 25-Jan-13 16:34:54

this thread stinks of disposable fatherness

Agreed.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 16:37:27

cory,

I have not supposed that your situation does amount to disposable fatherness, but I am trying to debate from a wider viewpoint.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 16:39:37

Dahlen,

'Tackle DV'... are you suggesting that this is a female only problem?

You are clearly projecting from your own experiences.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 16:46:18

accepta,

I'm sure we could swap statistics and would be more than happy to go on a fact finding mission, I have yet to come across the 2% that you quoted but are you seriously suggesting that the problems from the outcome of children from fatherless families is as nearly equal to those families that are not?

You grow the fuck up and stop contradicting yourself.

You've just said you hope one day you will meet someone and your dd will be a big sister. You then say you are too busy to even think about having a next partner

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 16:50:02

ONE DAY!

I think that I also said that I am too busy concentrating on being a parent to my daughter primarily to one day I may meet someone.

What is your anger all about?

cory Fri 25-Jan-13 16:52:50

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 16:37:27
"cory,

I have not supposed that your situation does amount to disposable fatherness, but I am trying to debate from a wider viewpoint. "

The problem with generalising is that it seldom takes invididual circumstances into account.

Angry? Ok then!

How do you know that other women haven't thought the same way? What is an acceptable amount of time to wait before having a new relationship and more dc in your eyes

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 16:58:25

I entirely agree,

I would also go as far as to say that, I am hurting so badly from the way I was treated by my ex and I am full of hurt, pain and sadness. But I am trying to debate and discuss, I feel as lost as I am sure many of you do.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 17:00:22

Moomin,

I'm not sure that there can be a definitive answer to that, do you?

But what I am trying to do is think of my child, the fact that most second relationships with children fail and what is most important to my child.

how can you argue with that?

boodles Fri 25-Jan-13 17:04:34

Why is it always the mother who is judged? What about the men who have made babies and then abandoned them. I am more pissed off that men seem to walk away from children and then when the woman, who is taking responsibility for the children, wants to have another relationship and more children, SHE is the one being judged. The man doing the abandoning in the first place is where I will judge.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 17:07:15

and to return to the initial point,

How can any decent parent believe that to introduce new partners so lightly, replacing one disfunctional relationship with the next, can be justified through their own selfish pursuit of happiness.

The parent that has multiple children to multiple partners must take responsibilty for their own actions and choices instead of blaming the absent parent.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 17:09:03

Boodles,

because it is not the man that does the walking away in as many cases.

You are basing your view on a prejudice.

acceptableinthe80s Fri 25-Jan-13 17:10:04

Yes I am Hillary, what of it?
Oh and for the record not all single parents are sad/lost, personally I've never felt so in control and confident since I became a single parent.
You really need to stop generalizing so much. Plenty children from single parent families have wonderful role models/loving families.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 17:14:59

What of it? You are being aggressive.

I know, I am not sad or lost either so I'm glad you've got your Big Girl panties on!

I do not need nor will stop doing anything that you tell me to do, you are a bully and of course your closing statement is true.

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 17:15:36

Oh wow.

Bun anyone?

Look, at the end of the day, The perfect family doesn't exist.

I must say, I do know women who have put their own biological imperative before the needs of their children and been quite feckless in introducing men to the household. They are rare and usually have other issues going on in the background.

I think that you do need to think very carefully and get to know someone before introducing them to your existing children, never mind having more children with them, but provided you do that and consider the needs of your children as well as your own, which tbh you have a legal duty of care to do anyway, and most parents male or female do at least attempt to do, then you can make a blended family as successful as a biological one. Or as big a failure as a biological one.

The issue isn't who has who's blood really, it's who is equipped to be a good parent.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 17:18:41

Forget the buns...

If the issue was not one of blood than perhaps we should all consider our children be put up for adoption.

And who if not a parent do you consider to be a good parent.

Flippant at best.

BlackMaryJanes Fri 25-Jan-13 17:20:26

Why is it always the mother who is judged?

It's not 'always' the mother though is it.

Also, women are the ones who ultimately hold the decision to breed or not, by virtue of their biology.

digerd Fri 25-Jan-13 17:21:15

I suppose this is unusual, but I know of a woman who has 5 children all by different men. At the weekends ALL 5 go to stay with their dads, and she loves having a single life every weekend and the kids are all happy and well adjusted.

BlackMaryJanes Fri 25-Jan-13 17:23:21

The issue isn't who has who's blood really

Not true. Blood is very important to people. Or else there would be less IVF and more adoption.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 17:24:00

I bet she does love the single life every weekend, are you really so blinkered?

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 17:27:28

She has 5 children with 5 fathers and loves the single life every weekend, can you tell my in what life situation that this women would not be a slapper?

Who introduces new partners lightly?

Who goes from one dysfunctional relationship to another?

Your generalising

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 17:30:41

Moomin,

The mother that has multiple fathers to multiple children.

The mother that has multiple fathers to multiple children.

Could one be any lighter, I'm glad to clear that up for you.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 17:31:49

Next,

I thought this was Am I being unreasonable, not feckless parents unite.

Mollydoggerson Fri 25-Jan-13 17:34:16

Don't judge, just support.

Is it shocking to have sex with 3 different men over a lifetime ?

So, why the shock expressed in the phrase "by three different fathers" ?

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 17:37:40

What is that you are encouragin me to support?

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 17:38:42

Jesus Christ,

You are comparing having sex with 3 partners to having 3 children to 3 fathers,
I rest my case, as feckless as they come.

"As feckless as they come"

< polishes new crown for next MN Royalty thread grin >

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 17:42:39

Hilary you are just firing off responses, many of which don't even make the least bit of sense. Perhaps a little more thought and a little less typing.

What about situations where the first partner dies?

You don't know if that's true of all mothers, you are generalising.

I'm sorry that your relationship was dysfunctional and you were hurt but that's not the case for everyone.

StuckForAUserName Fri 25-Jan-13 17:43:59

VinegarTits 'i think the op only mentioned the middle class thing to avoid the 'well i hope they are supportng all those children themselves and not letting the state pay for them' posts'. Thank you!

Sorry but I still do not agree.

Most of the 'my DC are thriving with a new father and half siblings and really don't care at all' posts have come from posters that are in that situation and IME the psychological problems this can create (especially in DC that do not see their fathers) show up in teenage/adulthood. The 'my new DH loves my DC as his own' posts are wishful thinking as well. Denials that favouritism does not exist are probably bollocks as well. I know that the 2 youngest DC of my aunt do lots of activities that the older one's did not get a chance to do and have attentive grandparents that the older ones do not have either!

Of course full bio families have problems as well but I can't understand why a woman would go from one relationship to another popping out more babies especially after DV (which DCs probably witnessed) when the DCs would surely find it very hard to trust another man. Just awful and selfish IMO.

Maybe because they're still hoping for some companionship, love, and support in their life ? If they still have hope after going through bad experiences then good on them !

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 17:47:30

Rhonda,

Could you be any more pompous,

This thread is yet to mention a first partner dying.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 17:49:15

Moomin,

I have not stated that it is true of all mothers.

I am quite sure that it is not the case for everyone, again I have not stated this and you presume that this was my situation.

gordyslovesheep Fri 25-Jan-13 17:50:11

do you know what made ME a single parent - my HUSBAND shagging somebody else and leaving me when our baby was 7mths old

my friends are single parents because their selfish bastard partners died - of cancer and a car crash

stop being so fucking judgy of single parents - my kids are fine - they are happy, healthy and well behaved - that is all that matters

we single parents get enough bashing thanks - walk a mile in our shoes smile

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 17:52:58

Juggling,

I agree, I want the same, who doesn't but selfishly pursuing love and happiness without thorough consideration of a child's needs is at the very least iressponsible.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 17:54:29

Gordy,

I was made a single parent after my own cancer diagnosis.

You still think I am being 'fucking judgy'.

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 17:55:24

Yes of course I could be more pompous...only because You asked so nicely.

You will note my post asked about a partner dying. This came BEFORE your response.

That means the thread has already referenced a first partner dying.

So anyway what about the bereaved, are they allowed to procreate again, is it only those who made a mistake in a previous relationship who have to have their ovaries removed?

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 17:55:52

and without getting into arguments over who has been through the worst,

try walking a mile in my shoes dear.

gordyslovesheep Fri 25-Jan-13 17:56:28

I think comments here about how awful the future lives of the children of lone parents are going to be are fucking judgy yes - i don't think I mentioned YOUR name specifically though

gordyslovesheep Fri 25-Jan-13 17:57:51

oh dear it's turning into top trumps - I was simply stating that most lone parents don't want/plan or wish to be - lets not turn it into a misery comp.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 17:58:05

Rhonda,

Of course, why on earth would you think that I would think otherwise.

Ovaries removed?

I'm unsure of what your point is?

Mollydoggerson Fri 25-Jan-13 17:58:59

All the judging, regardless of how well or how badly thought out will do nothing to change the situation. All you can do is work with the situation at hand and support your family and loved ones. Support them as much as you can.

We all have issues, all we can do is reach out and help others where possible. The judging doesn't help anyone.

IMHO Pursuing love and happiness is always a good thing, and is rarely done at the expense of one's own children, because they are usually the ones we love most smile

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 18:00:29

Gordy,

My comments about future lives of children are judgy?

Go give google five minutes, it is overwhelming.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 18:01:32

Juggling,

In an ideal world of course, but the blue birds are twittering.

LittleMissStupid Fri 25-Jan-13 18:01:54

I would not want my children to have different fathers. If DH and i split i would not have any more.

I know it is wrong, but I can not help but look down on parents who have children by 3 or more partners. I dont know why, i just dont like it.

gordyslovesheep Fri 25-Jan-13 18:02:42

I have no idea why you are taking my comments as a personal attack but as a post graduate qualified, successful woman who had a single parent mother I think statistics are shit - poverty, as had been pointed out, is the main key factor smile

acceptableinthe80s Fri 25-Jan-13 18:04:03

Bullying? oh please, i was simply answering a question that you put to me Hillary.

Hillary -'I am full of hurt, pain and sadness'
-'I know, I am not sad or lost either'

Just 2 of your contradictive comments, i think you should just stop now.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 18:05:18

Gordy,

In your own situation, of course, more power you!

However, I don't believe that this debate is about single mothers but rather parents that go on to have more children with more partners.

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 18:05:46

Hilary, I greatly fear you are using this thread to justify your own choices.

Not playing any more, I respect your choices and you have done what you think is best for your own child. However that does not mean that other people who have made differ choices have not taken their own children into consideration. Many people may feel they are able to be better parents when they have a balanced life of their own, when they do not focus on their children 100 per cent of the time but allow them to thrive and grow a little under their own steam, and when there are more people in their life for them to love and to love them back in return. Also when they are able to observe a loving, mature adult relationship which they can then model their own future relationships on.

Btw I am like Hecate, married to the same man for 14 years and two biological children who are both of ours, so I have no personal axe to grind here.

My mum has 7 to 3 different fathers. Mine and my brothers bio dad didn't want to know.

She got with the man I call dad and who adopted me when I was 4. They had another 3 children

After 16 years together they weren't happy and split. My mum now has 2 to her new husband.

Look down at people in similar situations all you wish.

It has fuck all to do with anyone.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 18:06:55

Accept, you little beaver,

I am hurt and sad at my own break up but I am not sad not lost in view of my future, you little Miss Marple you.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 18:09:57

Rhonda,

I'm not sure that I would entirely agree about choices but you have got me there.

Allthesanityinme Fri 25-Jan-13 18:12:16

Miss Marple, Beavers what is Mumsnet coming to?

For what its worth I don't think this family are anything to do with any of us so we should all keep our opinions to ourselves and go eat some haggis grin

FreudiansSlipper Fri 25-Jan-13 18:13:35

why complicate you life so much

all that as long as the the children are loved and cared for that is all that matters. its not that simple really people are more complex than that and theo children may actually want to know their biological fathers maybe they do not but that is for them to decide (unless there are safety issues around them knowing their fathers) if you have had children by 2 different men and the relationships have not worked out leave it as that

i would love another child i could have one with someone i really do not love we would soon break up (which could happen anyway) but why risk that just because i want another baby, what is best for ds has to be priority

The same applies for men too and no father should walk from his responsibilities away but just because he has does not mean you need to try out a few other men and have more children with them before you find one that sticks around. but we live in a society that judges women more than men and most children do live with their mothers once the parents have separated

ooh, yes please sanity smile

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 18:15:07

I agree with you Allthe,

I stand guilty of projection.

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 18:19:37

I've already had my haggis grin

You know, most of us are just doing thr best we can. There are definitely a few exceptions, some of them very noticeable, but most of us are trying to make things the best we can.

<channels Olivia> peace and love, peace and love

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 18:22:04

I agree with Allthe too, how wonderful to have peace, dignity and harmony for a change on Mumsnet, its a breath of fresh air indeed

LittleMissStupid Fri 25-Jan-13 18:30:20

i agree it has fuck all to do with me, and i dont give a toss what people think of me and what i get up to. I was simply stating how i feel about the whole numerous dads thing.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 18:31:38

and what of the mothers that see benefits as meal ticket,dissposable fathers...
as if this doesn't exist.

Ffs you say the thread is not about sp then keep bringing them up.

Moomin Of Corse its about single mothers. Didn't you know every single mother does it for the millions you get on benefits and just uses men as sperm donors?

Id rather have many kids to different dads that still bother with them and are brought up happy then have a few kids to the same man who isn't fussed about them.

People will judge no matter what. They always find something

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 18:40:41

Did I mention Sp's?

Andro Fri 25-Jan-13 18:41:27

8 children, 3 partners and the 3rd partner is away a lot with the military...everything about that description screams instability to me.

Why are the 3 eldest at boarding school? If it's because of partner 3's job then that is sending a questionable message.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 18:42:58

SPsFanjo,

No, but many do.

The rest of your statement makes no sense to the debate.

and what of the mothers that see benefits as meal ticket,dissposable fathers...as if this doesn't exist

So if you are not talking about single mothers what the hell are you on about? Do you even know?

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 18:45:12

Andro,

Trying to make the best of some God awful choices and paint it all as being 'the kids are happy' which roughly translates as I am happy and I don't care what anyone thinks as it suits me.

Andro Fri 25-Jan-13 18:47:14

HillaryClitoris - unfortunately it wouldn't be the first time I'd seen a variation that theme.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 18:48:25

I was responding Moomin,

It is commonly known as a debate.

During this discourse there have been suggestions of fathers dying, fathers walking away etc, why not mention the mothers that cut fathers out of childrens lives as if it isn't common place?

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 18:49:07

Thought the sp comment was referring to SPsFanjo for a moment there...

60 per cent of single parents work.

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 18:50:46

Hilary I agree there - there are women who cut the fathers out of their children's lives - but I would bet the vast majority of them have very good reason.

Of course there are always some exceptions.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 18:52:34

and 70% of step family's fail within the first 2 years.

2/3rds of all fathers lose contact with their children within 2 years of seperation.

cue the zombie statistics

So you are talking about single mothers then, make your mind up

fluffygal Fri 25-Jan-13 18:53:21

I find it very hard to judge the parent who is looking after the children. She is providing the home for them, they are looked after, so really what's the problem? I say this as a sm to 2 boys, whose birth mum has had 6 kids by 4 dads and left EVERY ONE of them with their dads, half of them before they turned 5 months old. Now if you want someone to judge, that's your woman! Not the one who looks after her children no matter what.

summersontheway Fri 25-Jan-13 18:54:15

well, I am projecting. I'm one of eight, 2 dads, 4 mums, mum only marries when pregnant.

Dad had some of my siblings in a children's' home whilst others were in private school.

I left home at sixteen because there were babies in my bedrooms at both parents.

I married young, had planned children, left husband and didn't inflict a string of men on my children. I chose the wrong man. I have now settled down now they're grown.

I loved being a single mum and my children are happy. My parents were middle class and accepted by society. I, as a single parent was judged by the wifey whores.

So, yes I judge anybody who abandons their children and those who allow their children to be second or third class citizens in their own family.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 18:54:19

Well,I think that is where we disagree, I do not believe that the majority of them do have good reason.

Are you going to now talk of Domestic Violence?

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 18:55:57

Moomin, I am talking about seperated families, what are you talking about?

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 18:58:03

Summer,

Good on your projecting.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:02:31

On another note,

Katie Price's wedding seems to have gone well.

LittleMissStupid Fri 25-Jan-13 19:03:52

I would also hate my DCs to all have different surnames.

LittleMissStupid Fri 25-Jan-13 19:05:39

HillaryClitoris grin

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:06:12

My goodness,

So you have 2 kids, 2 fathers, but you wouldn't want different surnames?

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 19:07:14

Surely your kids could all take your surname? hmm

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:08:05

I think that we have cross posted,

I apologise, you have a sense of humour that many don't seem to posses.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:09:32

As if that would happen Rhonda.

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 19:13:53

Well surely no-one would give a child the surname Clitoris, what is the World Wide Web coming to!

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:14:50

Good luck to your Dear child Miss Camel Toe, idiot.

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 19:14:52

Why wouldn't that happen? Genuinely baffled.

LineRunner Fri 25-Jan-13 19:17:14

Dahlen Just read your posts from this afternoon and I think they are fabulous. Thank you. smile

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:17:19

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:19:01

Why wouldn't it happen?

Why would it?

hmm

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:20:30

Usual intelligent input there Moom.

Well you'd think if all these women are having dc with disposable fathers they wouldn't bother giving them the fathers name

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 19:21:03

Hilary are you talking to yourself dear? Its all getting a bit confusing I'm afraid and whos Miss Camel Toe?

I think callme was joking, but as you keep contradicting yourself I wouldn't expect you to understand what anyone else is talking about.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:24:52

No 'dear'

but as you referred to my username and trying to link that to my child's surname then I took the liberty in your idiocy attempting the mispronunciation of your name as CAMEL TOE, you don't see it? light hearted n' all.

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 19:25:06

I'm not head tilting here, but are you all right Hilary?

I'm head tilting

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:27:50

My argument is relatively simple,

Parents that go on to have multiple children with multiple fathers are in many cases thoughtless, selfish and are often tryind to recreate the 'dream'.

I accept that this is not always the case, but for fucks sake, 8 kids, 3 fathers...

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:29:02

Moom, glad you are love, you've had fuck all worth saying.

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 19:29:07

My sincerest apologies Hilary. I'm quite new to Mum's net and find all these names quite confusing. I tried to make my name very clear by simply telling people what I like to be called, Doe, its short for Doris if you must know and I have a sister called Doreen which does get confusing sometimes. Anyway what was I saying, well I'm very sorry if I offended you and I think that we should all go and have a cup of tea and a biscuit biscuit, I do love these little pictures

You miss read, you didn't do it on purpose.

Don't be such an idiot noone was trying to link your user name to your child's last name. It was obviously a joke.

Are you this defensive, rude and pa in rl

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 19:30:53

Language Hilary! I was head tilting but felt a bit dizzy so decided to put my head upright again, I suggest that anyone else in the same position does the same. Its terribly difficult to drink tea at that angle

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 19:31:26

and don't even get me started on dunking biscuits

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:32:16

I'm relatively new too Callme,

I was being defensive.

Your one to talk! You can't even decide what you want to say!

You're rude and you make no sense what so ever, you should step away from the computer. I hope you don't act like this towards people in front of your dd

LittleMissStupid Fri 25-Jan-13 19:34:43

I have one DC, we both have my DHs surname. I have seen many threads on here of people moaning about their DCs having different names from them/siblings/new partner.

If they didnt keep having children by different men it wouldnt happen.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:34:56

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

AGivenNickname Fri 25-Jan-13 19:36:07

Just a thought - you're flaming women who have children by different men, but does the same flame go for the men who have children by multiple women too? Surely the coin should flip to two sides??

As I have said, I have 3 dc with two men - I'm in no way feckless thank you very much.

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 19:37:05

Oh no need to be defensive dear, I just came to chat about tea and biscuits and the like. I said Hello to you on another what do you call it, thread, its all very exciting! Just a quick question Hils, can I call you that, are you a man or a woman. Just because I know Hilary can be a uni-sex name as it were, but then again it is Mum's net isn't it.

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 19:37:13

Right Hilary that's enough. Go and read the chat rules please.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:37:55

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 19:38:14

Its all too beautiful ooo its all too beautiful

just thought a song might lighten the mood

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 19:39:28

Lovely singing doe.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:40:15

That's enough Rhonda?

Are you for real? Playground rules no?

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 19:41:01

Ooo I think I may need to go and read the Chat rules. I haven't done that yet, thanks for the reminder Rhonda. Rhonda Jean is a lovely name, my sister is Doreen Jean, mind you it rhymes so I did used to tease her saying it sounded a bit silly. Oh well all water under the bridge now dearies!

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 19:41:19

No not playground rules. MNHQ rules.

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 19:41:43

Not playground rules Hils chat rules, I'm over for a look now over a jammie dodger

I'm a bully? Your having a fucking laugh.

You talk about other people's parenting, tell people to fuck off and call them idiots, yet it's everyone else?

You should get a grip

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 19:43:43

Thank you doe grin

I hope you enjoy your biscuit ( love the biscuit with the bunnit!)

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 19:44:05

Sorry to nitpick Rhonda but we were all wrong they're actually called the Talk Guidelines, very posh

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 19:44:54

Thank you Rhonda, its so nice to see a fellow sensible person on Mum's net. Moomin Language!

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:45:01

I would welcome a review,

Is it not poor form to start bringing children in to play as per Moomin?

Is this for real, or just we don't like what you say? you argued against us and we will tell the teacher?

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 19:46:14

I don't think theres a teacher here is there?

LittleMissStupid Fri 25-Jan-13 19:46:27

to be fair, she does only have one father to her dc

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:47:39

Again, Moomins,

I would welcome the opportunity to debate with you but you have failed to offer anything worth commenting on.

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 19:47:49

what does DC stand for, is it District of Columbia?

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 19:48:22

blush

Talk Guidelines. Sorry I must remember that. Thanks doe.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:48:42

LittleMiss,

Could that be due to carefull life choices?

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 19:48:44

Hils you have failed to inform me whether you are a man or a woman and you ignored me on the other thread, I think these are far more pressing issues

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 19:48:58

Dear child(ren)

This whole thread is about people's children, how many assumptions have you made about the children Of people who have multiple fathers.

I hope you don't act like this in rl, hardly a good role model telling people to fuck off

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 19:49:42

Thank you dear so informative

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 19:50:13

Language Moomin!

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 19:51:20

This whole thread feels very bizarre...

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:53:14

Moomin,

The thread is indeed about mothers with multiple children with multiple fathers,

would you like me to speculate on how you behave in 'real life'?

Again, you have failed to contribute anything worthwhile to this thread.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:54:30

Callmedoe,

Why would I have to inform you of my gender?

I fail to see how that is relevant.

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 19:55:57

Hilary you have failed to contribute anything useful to this thread, you haven't told me whether you are male or female or not, or whether I can refer to use as Hils and you ignored me on the other thread! Really you are just as bad as Moomin with her fing and blinding, the only sensible one here is Rhonda, the rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves!

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 19:57:44

With respect,

could anyone decipher that last post from Callme?

LineRunner Fri 25-Jan-13 19:58:05

Again, you have failed to contribute anything worthwhile to this thread.

Says you.

My children don't have the same father so you have already speculated on how I behave in rl. You just don't like it when someone does the same to you

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 19:59:53

Look, it's really bad if I am the sensible one. Trust me.

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 20:03:07

I'd like to sincerely apologise to users of Mum's net and The World Wide Web as a whole for my previous post. I'm glad that you were unable to understand it Hilary because I am ashamed of it. For one thing the grammer and spelling are appalling, I apologise to my old English teachers, Mrs Pettifor, Mr Clethorpes and Mrs Jones. Secondly I am sorry that you all (not the english teachers they're dead) had to see it get so heated between Hilary and I and in fact all of you. This is not what I intended when I first joined this honourable group, I will go back and read the talk guidelines and think about my actions.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 20:03:39

I have tried to contribute the fact that developing new relationships can bring many problems, especially as the 'honeymoon' love can lose all sense of perspective in a new relationship, within which it is easy to forget about the children's feelings.

A mother/father that goes on to have subsequent children with a new partner rarely considers the emotional impact that the new relationship will have upon the children, I feel happy so they do.

Whether I am male or female shouldn't matter.

callme Hillary has told me to fuck off on numerous occasions throughout this thread not to mention telling other people the same thing.

I'm not going to apologise for asking her if she's having q fucking laugh

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 20:05:08

Callme,

don't apologise,

I'm half way through a bottle of brandy with flu, and I am now wondering about my own sexuality due to your posts!

chaya5738 Fri 25-Jan-13 20:06:59

I actually think it is unreasonable to have 8 children fullstop, whether they are with the same or different fathers. The world is over-populated enough as it is.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 20:07:15

Moomin,

Don't be so dramatic, I would love to talk to you but I was answering questions one after another, surely you can take as you gave?

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 20:07:23

I'm going to sing a song to make up for my actions, I have chosen a Scottish classic as its Burns night

You canae shove your granny off a bus
no you canae shove your granny off a bus
no you canae shove your granny
and I'll be in Scotland a for you
on the bonnie bonnie banks of loch lommand

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 20:08:56

I think we should all sing, I think a sing-song would lighten the mood considerably, Hilary, Moomin care to share a song, preferably Scottish with us?

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 20:09:41

You're pissed now CamelToe?

I don't think you can take what you give, that is why you've been getting so defensive.

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 20:10:32

I am no such thing Hilary, the very thought! I'm not even Scottish, my husband is in fact Welsh

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 20:10:48

I lived and studied in Glasgow for five years, I miss it

The internet, easist place to piss off people you don't even know.

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 20:11:08

I don't think I know that Scottish song Moomin, no the lyrics aren't familiar

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 20:12:23

How interesting Hilary, are you a fan of the Irn Bru, do you know any traditional Glaswegian songs you could entertain us with?

Only if we can sing loch lomond over and over again

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 20:13:01

oh, and by the way...

of course i'm a man, I've just been through absolute hell to get my little girl back, does it make any difference.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 20:13:34

I'm still staying single

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 25-Jan-13 20:14:50

Some people need to drink less

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 20:15:12

no, no it doesn't matter Hils, Auld lyne sayne is of course a Scottish song but I don't know the words and its not really the occasion

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 20:16:27

Some need to drink more Sock

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 20:16:35

Welcome Pixie, we're having a sing-along, its so much nicer than some of the unpleasantness that took place earlier, I'm ashamed to say I was involved. Do you know any Scottish songs Pixie?

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 20:17:40

I am Scottish and I have irn bru.

Just thought I'd chip in, realise its not exactly a weighty contribution.

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 20:18:55

It's sugar free irn bru though.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 20:19:06

Not sure boot that but a couple of my mates from uni were on Mr Tumble the other day sortin his banjo ooot.

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 20:19:17

what a lovely contribution Rhonda, do you also have shortbread and Edinburgh rock?

LittleMissStupid Fri 25-Jan-13 20:19:42

HillaryClitoris:
LittleMiss,

Could that be due to carefull life choices?

Yes of course it is. I said it in response to another poster. I too have made careful life choices.

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 20:20:20

ooo and fudge, theres always lots of fudge in Edinburgh

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 20:20:33

I didn't,

I just didn't

I organised a burns night years ago when I worked in a nursing home. Someone came in to read poetry and play bag pipes and we had a haggis.

twas good!

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 20:22:00

Little Miss Stupid, I'm afraid to say we're not talking about life choices here, careful or otherwise. We're talking about Scottish songs and Scottish confectionary, its Burns night I'll have you know. I'm concerned that you're living up to your name.

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 20:22:53

Thats a lovely story Moomin, its so nice to hear you saying nice things and not swearing

Callme I've already told you I swore in response to being sworn at!

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 20:24:58

I met a girl that asked me to marry her very quickly, we married, step son, had a baby, I got cancer she ran off days after... 4 years of family court, no support manipulation like you wouldn't believe, cancer surgery on my own, I'm 30, seperated from my daughter for 20 months, 2 miles away, no fault of my own, gone through the whole court process and further year rebuilding our relationship. Cost about 50 Grand, pain, unbelievable.

I lurked on here, projected, I'm sorry.

The cook in the nursing home made lovely fudge

SnowLiviaMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 25-Jan-13 20:25:52

GOOD EVENING ALL and a Very Happy Rabbie Burns Nacht to youse all.
Get yer talk guidelines here
grin grin grin gringrin gringrin gringrin gringrin gringrin grin

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 20:26:31

I am a man, I've been abused, I'm sorry. I just don't understand how a woman can do what she did.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 25-Jan-13 20:30:29

No Scottish songs.

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 20:30:29

I don't understand how anyone can do that tbh. Man or woman it makes no difference.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 20:31:28

Rhonda?

What pretend to be a bloke on mumsnet?

Callmedoe Fri 25-Jan-13 20:31:29

I'm going to leave this thread now as is all got quite serious and sometimes swearing hurts my eyes. I suspose lots of emotions just come spilling out on here its a bit like the allotment but on a bigger scale. Anyway I enjoyed our brief sing-along and confectionery chat and I hope those who participated did too. Who knows maybe we will meet again on another thread,

Farewell

Doris

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 20:31:32

Oh and we have finished the shortbread, no sweeties I'm afraid, but DH did make haggis neeps and tatties earlier.

Tatties auto corrected as fatties first try!

I think everyone is guilty of projecting some times,

It sounds like you've been through an awful time, I hope things get better for you

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 25-Jan-13 20:34:11

Agree man or woman its a horrible thing to do. However it probably has little to do with her also having other children.

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 20:35:45

No Hilary, make it so hard for someone to have a relationship with their child, unless of course there are safety concerns. Not implying there are in your case, just adding a caveat for others.

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 20:36:32

Bye Doris nice to meet you.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 20:36:59

I'm lonely,

I've been through hell to just get my little girl back, It's taken so much to give her the stablilty of having a dad, I'm so worried about her mother trying to introduce another partner as she has done with her son.

I'm sorry, my thoughts were genuine.

BlackMaryJanes Fri 25-Jan-13 20:38:42

The 'my new DH loves my DC as his own' posts are wishful thinking

I agree. Very naive.

It seems a lot of women see themselves as broodmares waiting for the next stallion to come along.

rhondajean Fri 25-Jan-13 20:45:36

I think you are right to worry, but if you read more on MN, you will also read lots of people having the opposite problem, many women trying to get feckless dads to keep contact with their children. So I don't think you can extrapolate your situation to a one size fits all - I mean, were you prepared to be a good father to your ex's existing child? Don't other children deserve a father figure in their life too and don't other women - and men - deserve the chance to have a good relationship?

I agree they need to think it through carefully and I agree they need to be careful. However, you also agreed to marry this girl quickly I take it, I know you have learned, but everyone can make a mistake. As I'm sure you will agree.

ledkr Fri 25-Jan-13 20:47:30

What a nasty insulting thread.
My dh is donating a kidney to my ds2 who was in his late teens when we met.
He probably doesn't feel the same about him as his own child but that doesn't mean he's a negative in their lives.

BlackMaryJanes Fri 25-Jan-13 20:53:17

Callmedoe sorry but your name is SO cammeltoe

And couldn't you say we all have a unique relationship with every other person in our lives ?

Flickstix Fri 25-Jan-13 20:58:26

Wow, after reading this thread my heart is beating really fast in anger and shock! I have 3 DC, my eldest is from a previous marriage. I worry that people judge our family and clearly from this thread they probably do! It's just sad and quite shocking.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 21:07:12

In reply to Rhonda,

Yes I did, I was 'dad' to him, my name the whole works.

I haven't seen him since my cancer diagnosis although I do have a court order stating that he can see me regardless of his mother's wishes.

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 21:08:17

ledkr,

why do you find this a 'nasty insulting' thread?

HillaryClitoris Fri 25-Jan-13 21:10:32

Flicks,

I can empathise.

summersontheway Fri 25-Jan-13 23:40:42

whisky plus google equals: [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21030083]

ledkr Sat 26-Jan-13 08:53:09

Because people are making massive assumptions about mothers and children LIKE MINE is that so difficult for you to understand?

My mother has 7 children by 2 dads - one of who is not in the picture any more.

Stop ebing so fucking jugdemental.

MrsDeVere Sat 26-Jan-13 11:22:00

Again.

We have FOUR birth children.
ONE adopted child.

Fuck off with your 'wishful thinking' bollocks.

How dare you.

BlackMaryJanes Sat 26-Jan-13 12:42:57

summersontheway oh no you di'nt!! grin

The more variations on family there are, the more people will stop making a silly fuss about it. The heteromonogamous nuclear family 'ideal' was never much good for women, its main beneficiaries were always men, who got to own a female for domestic work and breeding, and who were officially the rulers of the household. Women gaining more autonomy meant that more of them would reject husbands who are unsatisfactory. All the anti-single-mother propaganda is really about men's fear of having to do their own domestic work once women have options other than remaining in horrible marriages because they are financially dependent and not allowed to be otherwise.

But the real villains, who somehow rarely get mentioned, are the serial impregnators, The men who have children with several different mothers that they neither see nor pay towards the raising of. These are the men obsessed with proving that their cocks work and determined to own and control both women and children: when the woman stands up to them, they discard her and the children and try again elsewhere.

flippinada Sat 26-Jan-13 16:00:05

You know, I read through this thread thinking, bet Hillary is actually a man with a grudge and what do you know.

I agree Solid lot of rubbish - why is no-one starting a thread about serial impregnators and the appalling consequences of their selfishness?

As for the awful comments about "wishful thinking" what a load of spiteful nonsense.

Mind you I suppose these are the same people who cause such misery and upset in families by (for example) treating adopted children as less important than "real" children. I'm using that example specifically because there have been a couple of threads about that on MN recently.

In answer to the OP, I really don't see the problem. Firstly, blended families are nothing new and secondly, as long as children are treated well and loved what's the problem?

CuttedUpPear Sat 26-Jan-13 16:06:31

Well said SolidGold.

OP, are you Claire Khaw?

LineRunner Sat 26-Jan-13 16:11:20

why is no-one starting a thread about serial impregnators and the appalling consequences of their selfishness?

I have thought about it. But I am sure it would derailed by Page 2 by menz and otherwomenz.

It would be called, ''Why does society prefer lone mothers to claim some benefits from the state and then to vilify them than for the fathers of their children to pay more than a small percentage of their income toward their children's living costs?"

But it wouldn't fit in the thread title box.

flippinada Sat 26-Jan-13 16:33:32

Depressingly LineRunner I reckon you're spot on.

flippinada Sat 26-Jan-13 16:41:18

Actually, change the "think" to "know".

flippinada Sat 26-Jan-13 16:41:50

Or rather "reckon" to "know" <reminds self to check before posting>.

Flickstix Sat 26-Jan-13 16:46:25

I think people need to be very careful about making assumptions here, people have children by different Fathers for many different reasons.

LineRunner Sat 26-Jan-13 17:02:08

flippinada at least one person in the world knows what I mean.

flippinada Sat 26-Jan-13 17:25:15

I've been around here long enough to know who talks sense and who doesn't, LineRunner grin.

LineRunner Sat 26-Jan-13 18:25:22

Well, I may post that thread one day. Here's a good one:

'Why is the father of my children entitled to make a new family or families without particular redress, financial or moral, but I am not?'

Oooh, men, eh?

SoleSource Sat 26-Jan-13 18:27:52

So benefit scroungets can never be middle class.. Ooh boy the prejudice makes me wanna vomit

Flickstix Sat 26-Jan-13 18:39:25

I know a fair few middle class benefit claimants, they just don't make it obvious. Also know a lot of of working class people who would rather do anything than claim benefits.

LineRunner Sat 26-Jan-13 18:40:26

Indeed.

Btw a very large portion of 'benefits' go to the middle class. But we don't seem to call them 'hand outs'. We call them 'grants' and 'allowances', and 'pensions'.

flippinada Sat 26-Jan-13 20:15:09

"'Why is the father of my children entitled to make a new family or families without particular redress, financial or moral, but I am not?'"

And the answer to that is..

How DARE you ask that question, what are you??? Some sort of man hating feminazi?!!

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