To get rid of puppy?

(237 Posts)
chubbychipmonk Wed 23-Jan-13 13:12:44

Posting this on behalf on friend who doesn't know what to do.

She has a 4 yr old DD & 8 year old DS, is also in a relationship with DP who has 8 year old DD who stays at the house regularly.

She bought a Dalmatian puppy at Xmas who up until now has been playful & boisterous. She has been taking him to puppy classes & he seems to be training well. Last night however she was in the kitchen, heard a scream & found the dog had jumped up on DD & bitten her behind the ear whilst trying to retrieve a toy. Resulted in a hospital visit, tetanus jag & stitches.

Her DP (as well as his ex) now understandably don't want the dog round their daughter. My opinion is also that she should get rid of the dog as its too big a risk. However she has spoken to otherswho advise that the dog is merely being playful & she should persevere. Basically she just wants to see what the common consensus is, it's already causing arguments between her & DP. My opinion is she's being unreasonable to keep the puppy but what do others think?

LIZS Wed 23-Jan-13 13:16:57

Was the puppy being teased or overexcited perhaps ? Unfortunate incident but it could probably be trained and the children better supervised.

nicelyneurotic Wed 23-Jan-13 13:19:16

She should re-home the dog now while he's still a puppy.
How would she feel if next time the dog 'playfully' bites her Dd's ear off, or worse? It's a risk.
Will be more difficult to rehome him when he's older.

You cannot leave dogs and children unsupervised, especially a new puppy that you have only had a few weeks. Do people honestly not get this?

3monkeys3 Wed 23-Jan-13 13:19:55

I am no expert but I believe puppies do 'play' bite, so it may well not have been aggressive. I would advise your friend to seek advice from her vet, rather than make a snap decision.

coffeeinbed Wed 23-Jan-13 13:19:55

It's a puppy FFS not a piranha!
.It has to be supervised at this stage though, why did she leave a child with it.
She should just get a grip.

SuzysZoo Wed 23-Jan-13 13:19:58

Sorry to hear that your friend has this problem. I doubt you will get any sort of consensus of advice on here about what she should do. Half of us will say she should get rid of the puppy. Half will say its just a puppy and she should persevere/train etc. A handful will express disgust at yet another person who buys a dog at Christmas and basicially changes their mind. FWIW I think Dalmations are generally acknowledged to be quite headstrong (untrainable) and probably need someone who is very familiar with dogs. I'm afraid I don't like dogs at all, so I'd say get rid, but that won't make me popular I know!

And just for the record, he will be difficult to rehome now. Look how many dogs are in rescue ATM

squeakytoy Wed 23-Jan-13 13:20:19

She should be supervising a young puppy who is not fully trainedwhen there are children. That is simple common sense, and if she doesnt realise that, then she shouldnt have a dog in the first place.

EuroShagmore Wed 23-Jan-13 13:21:31

Puppies are bitey and need to be supervised around children (even my lovely Andrex retriever puppy went through a bitey stage - I remember her hanging off my kneecap once....). If she cannot look after it properly, she should rehome it now.

willyoulistentome Wed 23-Jan-13 13:21:52

get rid.

HungryHippo89 Wed 23-Jan-13 13:22:51

DP & I got a puppy about a year ago. He also has a DC who is around the same age as the children in question. We don't ever leave the dog unsupervised with DC. Your friend couldn't possibly know exactly what happened leading upto the dog biting the DD - I would advise her to not get rid of the puppy but make sure the children and the dog aren't left without adult supervision. I have a baby gate between my living room and kitchen and when DC is in the living room and I'm going in the kitchen i take the dog with me and shut the gate, also the same with upstairs. I have another gate at the bottom of my stairs. And we have made sure DC knows to not tease the dog and also to keep her face/hands away from the dogs mouth. It has worked well for us and (touchwood) haven't had any problems.

HazleNutt Wed 23-Jan-13 13:23:11

It was trying to retrieve a toy the DD was holding? It's just a playful puppy who was excited and hurt the DD by accident, not because it is agressive. it wasn't an attack. Unlikely to be risky just because of that - they just need to train the dog not to jump and of course should not leave the kids and dog unsupervised.

TwllBach Wed 23-Jan-13 13:23:11

I don't think this is going to end well...

FWIW, it's a puppy, Christmas wasn't that long ago, they shouldn't have been left alone together. I wouldn't rehome.

CleverClod Wed 23-Jan-13 13:24:02

How old is the dog?

Is it a few weeks (ie: just been separated from its mother) and still really playful, or a good few months older (and personality already starting to set) and starting to get big?

Dalmations are prone to being deaf and therefore not able to be as trainable and could need specialist training.

A dog is NOT just for Christmas angry more thought should have been given!

I agree with tantrums the puppy should not have been left alone with the dc's. It's a baby, it hasn't learnt that biting is wrong it was probably being playful. Also if she hasn't had the puppy long the children won't have learnt yet not to mess around with it.

HungryHippo89 Wed 23-Jan-13 13:25:06

FWIW i also remember my dog going through a "bitey" stage ... But it was just that .. A stage. But she is a Shih Tzu and is tiny!!

soverylucky Wed 23-Jan-13 13:25:26

I hate dogs - find them disgusting and utterly annoying BUT your friend took this dog on and ignored the most basic advice - Never leave a dog with a child unattended. Even I know this and I don't have a dog and never will. She should keep the dog and behave in a more responsible way. I am not surprised that dog lovers get fed up of other dog owners when people are so stupid. He is a dog that will grow up very quickly into a large animal. I think she wants a cute docile puppy for ever.

poorbuthappy Wed 23-Jan-13 13:25:30

In the nicest possible way they do not have a clue so should rehome for everyone's sake including the pup.

Our labroador pup bit me when I was 9, I had her toy, it wasn't done viciously she was being a puppy, we had her 16yrs and she never hurt anyone again.

I hate dog owners like this

TheDeadlyDonkey Wed 23-Jan-13 13:26:27

At 4yo, the dd is far too young to be playing unsupervised with a puppy.
The dog bit her trying to get to a toy, so it doesn't sound like an aggression problem.
IMO, this should be written down to experience, stair gates/crates put into place to allow dog and dc to be separated unless supervised, and the children taught appropriate behaviour around dogs.

That sounds like I'm being harsh, but it's not meant to come across that way!
I really can't stress enough though that dogs and children should not be unsupervised when together.

soverylucky Wed 23-Jan-13 13:27:09

Sorry just re read and realised it is the partner who wants rid and not your friend.

Branleuse Wed 23-Jan-13 13:27:11

why the fuck do people BUY a cute puppy with no experience or clue and then just get rid like theyre disposable. FFs

Anyone who is considering getting a puppy for a present when they know fuck all about dogs should be made to read this, or any of the other million threads about this very subject before bringing a puppy into a their home. Its ridiculous.

HDee Wed 23-Jan-13 13:28:41

Sounds like an accident to me. Puppies are very bouncy and have sharp teeth. If the girl was waving a toy around and playing with the dog, you can't really blame the dog, can you?

HotPanda Wed 23-Jan-13 13:28:57

I have a Dalmatian and when he was a puppy his teeth were razor sharp. I have a scar on my hand from when I was playing with him and a toy and he misjudged what was toy and what was hand. Dally are HARD work. They are boisterous, wilful and determined. They are also affectionate, well behaved and generally lovely. But this takes work.

If the puppy was bought at Xmas, I assume it is now 4ish month old? Then please get it rehomed. It sounds as though she cannot cope with the dog and the children, so this is the best situation for all concerned.

She should be supervising a young puppy who is not fully trained when there are children. That is simple common sense, and if she doesn't realise that, then she shouldn't have a dog in the first place.

This absolutely.

Call Dalmatian Welfare Rehoming and enquiries: 07905 495084, they will organise foster care and a good home for the pup where it can get the attention it needs.

mrsjay Wed 23-Jan-13 13:29:27

the puppy is just a bbay you can't leave it alone with children ever they do bite and jump my dog is just coming out of it and he is nearly a year old, sorry but i think your friend has been irresponsible I am sorry the girl was bitten but it really isn't the dogs fault , if she can't supervise the dog then she maybe need to get rid of it, cute little puppies are fab but they are animals, sorry dont mean to sound harsh but it wasn't the dogs fault ,

akaemmafrost Wed 23-Jan-13 13:29:40

This was not an aggressive bite it was an accident involving an excited young dog. I know let's all get rid of our toddlers next time they barge or push another kid when they're over excited, because it's the same thing.

Tell your friend NOT to leave her children and the puppy unsupervised together and to sort out some dog training pronto. Quite frankly a Dalmatian NOT the best choice for a family with small kids in the first place. Did she do much research before choosing this breed?

dreamingofsun Wed 23-Jan-13 13:29:50

dogs nip when they are puppy's - its their way of asking you to play. young children and puppy's should always be supervised and not left alone - unless your friend can committ to this then yhe puppy should be rehomed quickly whilst its still easy for it to find a new more suitable place and before it gets too quickly attached to you.

does your friend realise how much exercise the dog will require once it gets a bit older? If she doesn't realise you shouldn't leave dogs/children unsupervised, she might not realise this either.

4boysthatilove Wed 23-Jan-13 13:30:25

Dog behaviouralist here - can't believe this post - it both saddens me and angers me at the same time, however if your friend OP wants to get in touch you can PM with contact details. I will be happy to advise some positive training tips.

toboldlygo Wed 23-Jan-13 13:31:48

Dogs and children should never be unsupervised. Puppies need to learn bite inhibition and go through a horribly mouthy bitey land shark phase - this is natural, and normal, and it is the owner's job to teach them to inhibit this. Children waving toys around in a young puppy's face will get jumped up at, scratched and bitten in play until the puppy is old enough to have been taught differently.

She bought it at Christmas? FFS. Sounds like a household that should never have considered a dog. If they're struggling with a few month old puppy I dread to think about the gobby teenage stage and dealing with a high energy adult dog (they're carriage dogs, designed to be running for miles and miles and miles every single day - is it really going to be compatible with their family lifestyle? For the next 10+ years?)

If they do get rid of it he needs to go to a reputable no-kill rescue with a sizable bloody donation towards his future care and rehoming costs. NOT Preloved, Gumtree etc. - if they do that they need flogging.

YABU but so was your friend when she left her daughter with the puppy. Can't say whether she should have got it or not as don't know her background but presumably she knows just how much work dalmatians are?
Puppies should not be left with children at all. At this age they are learning about their world (remember how toddlers put everything in their mouths?) and their teeth are razor sharp. It is unlikely to have been malicious even - our puppy used to nip when he got overexcited in playing.
She needs to get puppy a proper space away from the children - put a baby gate across the kitchen door if needed.

SpicyPear Wed 23-Jan-13 13:33:21

It's not aggression, puppies are bitey with low impulse control and I would go so far as to say almost all puppies would at some point unintentionally hurt a small child if they are regularly left unsupervised. She doesn't need to get rid of the dog. She needs to start being a responsible pet owner and only allowing the dog to be with the children under supervision, at times she is in a position to regulate their interaction (i.e. not in the same room but concentrating on something else).

People like you and your friend make me absolutely sick. That puppy didn't ask to be taken into a home with kids and irresponsible owners. Maybe if you had any idea of the number of dogs languishing in rescue and being PTS every day you would be less flippant and reactionary about this. Your friend is at fault, not the puppy for being a puppy.

Callisto Wed 23-Jan-13 13:33:59

Well she is an idiot to get a puppy and not supervise it with her 4yo - that was an accident waiting to happen. Poor puppy, poor DD.

HotPanda Wed 23-Jan-13 13:34:57

toboldlygo I agree.

My Dally is walked 2 or 3 times a day, for between 30-90 mins per walk, including running free in fields. This is what exercise this kind of high energy dog needs.

FredWorms Wed 23-Jan-13 13:36:46

Continue with the puppy training.

Start training the children about how to treat the puppy.

Kafri Wed 23-Jan-13 13:37:57

A dog is for life, not just for Christmas!!

While there are times that warrant re homing an animal I sincerely doubt this is one of them.

A playful puppy, a child and a toy that the playful puppy wanted-sounds very much like an accident to me...

How about - cont with training for puppy and never leave puppy and kids alone. Dalmatians make fantastic family pets

If it were a adult dog my reply might have been different, but a puppy still in training has no idea of appropriate play. Give it chance to learn. If the owners weren't willing to give pup chance to learn they shouldn't have taken it on.

SpicyPear Wed 23-Jan-13 13:38:31

Missed HotPanda's post. Absolutely rehome if the breed rescue are able to help this to be done safely. Whatever she does she should not take it to the pound, to be PTS, rehome to a friend or via FB, Gumtree etc. There lies a lifetime of suffering for the pup, at best being neglected and passed around or at worst ending up as bait for dog fighters.

FredWorms Wed 23-Jan-13 13:38:48

HotPanda, my neighbours have one and they never walk it. It just poos in their tiny garden. I've offered to walk it but they perpetuate the notion that it is hard to handle.

It breaks my bloody heart.

chubbychipmonk Wed 23-Jan-13 13:39:02

She does have a crate for it however they were left alone unsupervised while she was in next room for only 5 mins (wrongly she knows)

I understand it's only a puppy but this isn't the first time the kids have been knocked over & scratched by it. Concern is that the next time it may 'playfully' bite one of the DC on the face or cause more injury. We're at work just now & she's reading all theses replies so thank you for your input!

Mosman Wed 23-Jan-13 13:40:03

Doesn't long walks do more harm than good when they are young though ? I tried to walk the legs off ours to wear him out and was told we'd hurt him as he was still growing.

spiderlight Wed 23-Jan-13 13:40:20

This was how we ended up with our springer - inexperienced family, active breed, needle teeth, poor supervision. It's too late now but they should never have got a puppy in that situation, really. An older, steady rescue dog from a foster home with kids would have been vastly more appropriate sad

PeachActiviaMinge Wed 23-Jan-13 13:40:22

There just aren't words strong enough for these sort of people. You really should have to take a test before being allowed to own a dog maybe then it would stop these animals ending up in rescue for simply being young.

Tell her to rehome the puppy to a good rescue with a sizeable donation made at the same time, It has more hope of being rehomed now as a puppy then it will when they decide they are bored of it and getting rid anyway as an adult.

(Not a dog lover either) but I would defend the dog in that he was 99.99% after the toy not the child.
And though a 4 yo should be fairly sensible , the child+ puppy should have been better supervised.

When you say in a relationship I'm assuming the DP and his 8yo do not live with her?
In which case she bought the puppy for her household.
It may well be that if he doesn;t want his DC near the dog, then don't. (Obviously if they all live together, then not easy)

But why did she choose a Dalmation?
They are headstrong. They were originally carriage dogs.
And after the 1001 films there was a huge problem with rehoming them.

TBH - puppies are bitey little blighters.
People get dogs to protect them and their families.
It doesn't sound like it was malicious on the part of the dog.
She should discuss it with her trainer rather than binning him off.

And work out a strategy that keeps the puppy and child safe

The dog is a puppy. It has been alive for, I guess, less than 12 weeks.

Puppies bite. They are not vicious. You cannot possibly believe that a puppy deserves rehoming because it was just being a puppy. Google bit inhibition and Ian Dunbar which will give you a basic understanding of what the puppy is up to.

She cannot possibly have done very many training classes - there simply has not been enough time. Equally, the puppy cannot possibly be trained yet; she has only had it for about four weeks. With dogs, you get out what you put in. Every time.

If your friend has taken on more than she can cope with tell her to contact the breeder they got it from and ask them to take it back. If she is leaving a puppy with young children she is must be stupid, inexperienced and incapable of using her common sense.

Do not judge the dog. It has done absolutely nothing wrong. This is a problem entirely caused by the adult involved.

Why was the dog having to jump up to get a toy. Was the child playing with it or teasing it? Whichever it was, it sounds like the child could do with some behaviour guidelines too.

HotPanda Wed 23-Jan-13 13:41:35

Missed HotPanda's post. Absolutely rehome if the breed rescue are able to help this to be done safely. Whatever she does she should not take it to the pound, to be PTS, rehome to a friend or via FB, Gumtree etc. There lies a lifetime of suffering for the pup, at best being neglected and passed around or at worst ending up as bait for dog fighters.

chubbychipmonk incase you missed it earlier - Dalmatian Welfare Rehoming and enquiries: 07905 495084,

SpicyPear Wed 23-Jan-13 13:41:46

Yes but chubby, anyone who knows even the first thing about puppies knows that all of those things will happen without very careful management of the dog. What on earth was she thinking bringing one into the home, especially a dalmation? Sadly many people like your friend get rid of one dog only to try another and another and another, never realising that they are the problem, not the dogs.

Knocking over and scratching is not a bite though. That's part and parcel of a clumsy little quadroped.
And it doesn't sound like a Spite Bite

chubbychipmonk Wed 23-Jan-13 13:44:03

She has had a dog previously for 16 years but that was before she had DC so she does have experience with dogs.

Yes to it being deaf possibly - the dog walker who lets it out when she's at work mentioned that she thought it may be slightly deaf, awaiting on vet to confirm.

The puppy is 3 months old & quite a big size already with more growing to do.

My mum and step-dad are currently looking for a dog, they have been looking at all the rescues local to us but haven't really found anything that clicks totally with both of them.
I do know my mother would leap at the chance of having a damnation, they are experienced dog owners. There last dog, who was a rescue from Wales, came to them at about the age of six or seven and lived until she was fourteen.
So, anyway...
As to 'the puppy, your friend(s) sound totally unprepared for having one, so either they learn quickly, or rehome the poor thing.

HotPanda Wed 23-Jan-13 13:44:11

Mosman yes - The recommendations (or were when I got mine) are walks lasting 5 mins per month of age so 4 months = 20 mins. But you can do that 2/3/4 times a day. The aim is not not let them jump off things, or run too much as that it what damages them. I was really just trying to give an indication of what living with an adult one is like.

Paiviaso Wed 23-Jan-13 13:44:19

This isn't the end of the world, I think your friend can learn from this:

Dog is young and bound to make mistakes. Children and dog should never be left unsupervised. Dog needs lots of exercise outside the house to burn off energy. Children need to be taught how to play safe games with the dog.

Dalmation! Bloody auto correct!

Narked Wed 23-Jan-13 13:45:20

Your friend sounds like a complete fuckwit.

HotPanda Wed 23-Jan-13 13:45:57

Yes to it being deaf possibly - the dog walker who lets it out when she's at work mentioned that she thought it may be slightly deaf, awaiting on vet to confirm.
A reputable breeder would have given the dog a BAER hearing test at roughly 6 weeks old. ALL Dallys should be checked for this as deafness is such a common trait. Did this not happen?

mrsjay Wed 23-Jan-13 13:46:43

the puppy is going to go into that teen stage that somebody else spoke about thats hard work they are still testing boundries etc but bigger, ask you friend to speak to a dog behaviourist to teach an Off command and teach the children not to wave toys at the dogs face its a 2 way thing , the kids need to learn as well, I have a little well medium size dog and he can knock me off my feet sometimes, can you imagine an almost full sized bouncy 'teenage' dalmation

your friend is an idiot op .

puppies bite, it's called excitement, ffs.

mrsjay Wed 23-Jan-13 13:48:09

chubby post in the dog house too they have really helped me with my excited jaydog I was taking him back to the rescue a few weeks ago,

adeucalione Wed 23-Jan-13 13:48:31

What a sad post.

It's really incredible that there are still people out there who are daft enough to buy puppies without knowing what they are letting themselves in for - they are hard work, and they do 'play' bite.

FWIW our puppy nipped DC's legs for months - we did all the training techniques but nothing seemed to work, and their legs were black and blue with little puncture marks. At about five months he seemed to get the message and he has been daft as a brush ever since - no biting, no aggression, and he's 8 years old now.

I think that they shouldn't have bought the pup at all but, as they have it, they must take responsibility for keeping it away from their DC and carrying on with the training.

Floralnomad Wed 23-Jan-13 13:50:37

Yes she should rehome it ,but not because it 'bit' anybody but because she is obviously incapable of supervising it properly . Eventually this dog will end up being rehomed so it would be best to do it now. Also I don't understand your comment about it already being big and still growing , she must have known how big it was going to get its a Dalmation so it will get to Dalmation size , unless its a special new type of miniature Dalmation!

Callisto Wed 23-Jan-13 13:52:02

I've just rehomed a lovely little 6mo terrier because a similarly idiotic woman got him and didn't bother supervising child-puppy interactions properly. He was mouthy, she says he bit, she hands him in to the rescue on Christmas Eve (Christmas Eve fgs, how heartless?).

OP I really think your friend should rehome this puppy to an appropriate rescue. It is not a suitable breed and needs a serious amount of exercise. A relative of mine had a similar breed, it didn't get enough exercise or supervision, became dog-aggressive and then started biting people. It had to be put down at just 4 years old. It was a gorgeous dog but totally unsuitable and ended up spending most of its adult life in a cage or chained on their yard. I can see the same scenario for this puppy.

JustAHolyFool Wed 23-Jan-13 13:52:48

She should rehome because she's obviously not capable of looking after a dog. Who the hell leaves a new puppy alone with a 4 year old? And who gets a puppy at Christmas?

And then she should never ever ever get a dog again.

grin @ autocorrect to damnation.
That's what my DD calls them blush

JustFabulous Wed 23-Jan-13 13:53:52

" FWIW I think Dalmations are generally acknowledged to be quite headstrong (untrainable)."

I don't normally post on this topic but I had to disagree with this very strongly. My neighbours currently have two Dalmatians and have had one on his own before. The dogs are totally trained and 100% know the humans are in charge.

toboldlygo Wed 23-Jan-13 13:53:52

Pup should have been BAER tested before it left the breeder. Someone comes to let it out while she's at work? So pup is home alone for the rest of a working day? No input, no training, just left to its own devices - you're going to struggle to get things like bite inhibition in place.

Samu2 Wed 23-Jan-13 13:54:14

I have a 7 month old JRT and she bit me once and it hurt! She was only playing and I just saw it as one of those things. Since then she started to grow out of the biting stage but it took training, time and patience.

Some people don't realise how time consuming training a puppy can be, I still feel like it is one step forward and two steps back some days.

I wouldn't re-home a puppy for a mistake the OWNERS made, however she doesn't seem very serious about wanting to train the puppy so perhaps re-homing is the best option for the pup in the long run.

akaemmafrost Wed 23-Jan-13 13:54:38

I don't think name calling will is on really. Hopefully she's reading this thread and it's going to help her be educated about her responsibilities towards this dog. She's made a bad call but so do 1000's of people getting dogs and she has posted for help. People think it's all cute, cuddly, furry cuddles and romping in the park with perfect recall and it just isn't. It's a lot of work too but SO worth it.

One golden rule is crate the dog every time you leave the room even for a second. Do some reading. Contact the behaviourist who has kindly offered to help on this thread ASAP. This can totally be sorted.

chubbychipmonk Wed 23-Jan-13 13:56:21

No, she DOES want to keep him & continue with the training. . . It's her DP ( whose child visits regularly) that wants to rehome it?

Floral makes a valid point. The puppy absolutely wasn't at fault here - it was playing with the DCs in the same way that it would play with its litter mates. It is a baby and needs to be trained to live in a human world by human rules, and in the meantime should never be left alone with small children.

The owner obviously has no idea how to train a puppy, or look after a dog, hence the poor animal needs to go to a home where it will have the hope of a happy future. I can see this dog being shut in a room by itself, written off as a biter, and neglected at its current home. This treatment would turn it into an untrained unsocialised nightmare completely incapable of integrating into a human world.

grovel Wed 23-Jan-13 13:59:20

Look, it's not going to work if DP wants the dog out. Re-home responsibly. Sooner rather than later.

GreatUncleEddie Wed 23-Jan-13 14:00:05

It's a puppy. It needs training and love. Is she prepared to put the time in or not? (And if not, wtf did she buy the poor creature?)

SamSmalaidh Wed 23-Jan-13 14:00:11

Is she leaving the dog alone all day with just someone coming to let it out?

Your friend really didn't think this through did she hmm

It's a puppy. It needs training, supervision, company. It will nip and scratch and jump on the kids while it is learning appropriate behaviour. Your friend needs to put some time and effort in.

chubbychipmonk Wed 23-Jan-13 14:00:18

Thanks for the number for Dalmation Welfare, she's phoned them & they ate arranging to send someone out to the house to assess the situation.

chubbychipmonk Wed 23-Jan-13 14:02:14

She works 3 days a week and in those days, walks it at 6am before work, dog walker comes in at 10am & walks it, she goes home at lunch time and walks it, then is home to walk it at 4pm.

D0oinMeCleanin Wed 23-Jan-13 14:09:52

Puppies have needle sharp teeth and love to play, play for puppies is jumping, biting, scratching, nipping, chewing things they shouldn't chew etc. This is why people with children need to think very carefully before buying a puppy.

If your friend had bought from a reputable breeder, she would have expert advise on the other end of the phone.

I'm in two minds about this tbh, I don't think anyone should re home easily and vehemently wish people who don't have a clue about dogs would stop buying cute, fluffy puppies but it doesn't sound to me as though your friend is cut out for dog ownership.

A Dalmatian, as already pointed out, will grow to Dalmatian size, that's simple common sense. I don't understand how this dog has gotten too big? confused What was your friend expecting a large breed dog to grow into? Plus leaving puppies and children unattended is a massive no no. Even a short bit of research would have taught your friend this.

If you're friend can pull her finger out and get her act together, then by all means she should keep the puppy, it doesn't sound like an act of aggression, most puppies are incapable of aggression, they're babies, innocent and new, they learn mistrust and aggression later in life if they're not properly trained and socialised. Otoh, if, as I suspect, this pup is going to end up in rescue anyway, because he's too big/takes too much time/hasn't magically transformed into the perfect trained dog with little to no effort from the owner etc. then she should do the pup a favour and rehome via a reputable breed rescue now, while the puppy is still young and cute and she should never get another dog.

If she decides she is capable of keeping it, then she should contact and APDT registered trainer to come out and speak to her, bite inhibition is very important for a puppy to learn and if, after puppy classes, your friend still thought it was fine to leave a puppy unattended with children, then she is obviously not getting all she should be from the puppy class, also the trainer will be happy to have a word with DP and reassure him that this was just play and with responsible management won't happen again.

If she gets rid, she should not get another dog and definitely no more puppies.

How sad for the poor puppy and the dd.

tedsmam Wed 23-Jan-13 14:16:25

sad and stupid.

At least if she rehomes it now whilst young, and still developing, it has time to be properly trained and cared for by someone with more than a passing interest in having a dog.

Hope she at least takes finding it a new home seriously and doesn't just pass the pup onto anyone - it's shame for the pup to have to be rehomed but this family don't seem to be in it for the right reasons,

StuntGirl Wed 23-Jan-13 14:17:52

Your friend is an idiot who clearly does not have the knowledge or understanding to keep a dog. And now the poor thing faces an uncertain future thanks to your friends foolishness and short sightedness.

HazleNutt Wed 23-Jan-13 14:18:15

Her DP who does not even live there wants to rehome, and not her? Her DP is the unreasonable one then. The puppy is not agressive, it's a puppy and yes they might bite, scratch and knock you over when excited. That's what puppies do.

Tell her to rehome the puppy.

I am very very much against sticking puppies in rescue because of a little nip but in this case I think I would rather see a dog in a reputable rescue and eventually rehomed than left with someone who leaves it all day, doesn't train it, leaves the puppy and the children alone unsupervised and clearly has got no clue.

Put the puppy in a good rescue and hopefully he will find a loving home.

And you have no idea how hard it was for me to say add another puppy to the 100s already abandoned by idiotic owners who buy cute puppies for xmas.

and FGS a reputable rescue

do not put the puppy for sale on facebook or gumtree or preloved.

DeepRedBetty Wed 23-Jan-13 14:28:40

Hi, I think your friend is looking for ammo to support her choice of keeping the puppy on, against her dp who wants rid. Sorry, is DP actually living with your friend or just around a lot?

I think she will get there, but she needs to train everyone in the house about puppies as well as the puppy iyswim. It's a shame she's at work for large chunks of three days of the week, but I've supported quite a lot of families through this stage now and only once has it gone wrong - and that time was unrealistic expectations from the owner.

DeepRedBetty Wed 23-Jan-13 14:33:30

Sorry just to be clear I run a dog walking agency and regularly support families who want a family pet but can only take the first few weeks off to settle it in. The routine described is exactly what I'd suggest for a dog of this age.

Dalmatians are boisterous and scatty but ultimately rewarding, both my mum and sister have them - my mum's on her fourth - and the only person any of them has ever bitten was a stranger who trespassed into our garden when I was a child and leaned over the baby's pram.

happynewmind Wed 23-Jan-13 14:35:30

Ok I will get flamed for this but here goes.

Two years ago we rehomed a pup to someone else we knew.

My dd has SN but not severe. I had lots of experience with dogs but we waited until dd was 8 before getting a pup to make sure she was old enough to understand, she was used to dogs and spent every weekend with my mums and families, they were all big breeds and she loved playing tug and cuddling and feeding them.

We got a puppy and it was a disaster, dd having been used to big chunky dogs was unintentionally too rough when cuddling, she was too rough when playing, she would throw the ball and race for it as she had been doing with the bigger dogs but because it was a puppy she would get there first everytime which meant understandably he became very frustrated.

I never left them unsupervised, I disciplined dd, I kept them seperate, I would not let dd be in the room alone with the puppy, she was punished. She used to cry and cry for the puppy, she loved him so much she just did not understand what she was doing wrong and no amount of explaining worked. The puppy would get over excited as puppies do which would push dd further over the boundaries for giddyness.

The problem was the second I went to the loo or in the shower she would make a bolt for him. If he saw her puppy would run to her. I could not be in the same room the whole time.

We were attending puppy training, we were involving dd with that trying to help her learn in a positive way. We got him a crate so he could get away and dd was drilled that this was his place and she was not to go there or get him.

Things got worse though and he started growling and snapping, he bit dd on the face twice and on her hand, not in a puppy play way, we got help and advice but he started to snap and snarl at everyone.

We made the decision that it was better for HIM and his life to not be near my dd and for us to have no dog until she was at a point she could understand. We decided it was better to give him a chance now while he was still a puppy and behaviour could be unlearned than to have a dog at six months who had completely lost his patience and temper and would likely be put to sleep.

It broke DDs heart and she has never forgiven me but a friend of ours with grown up children who was retired took him and he has a lovely life.

DD see's him now and she is wonderful with him as is she with my mums jrt cross but at the time I know I made the right decision for the puppy.

As it stands I would never ever get a puppy again.

Well it sounds to me like she is putting the time in.
She's walking it regularly etc. etc...
She knew not to leave it unsupervised with the kids and I don't think it will happen again.
Sorry, but to me it sounds like it will have a lovely home and family and it also seems as though they are willing to put the time and money in to get it trained.
Hope the assessment goes well and all is good in the end.

chubbychipmonk Wed 23-Jan-13 14:42:28

To clarify, her DP has only recently moved in however works offshore so is rarely there, when he is there his DD comes to stay too.

HopAndSkip Wed 23-Jan-13 14:43:09

Puppies bite their brother and sisters in play, they need to be taught not to. That's like saying because a toddler pushes, they will go through their adult life pushing everyone.
The puppy should be supervised with the children until there is absolutly no concern and the dog is a calm adult dog with no risk of the children teasing it.

Pinot Wed 23-Jan-13 14:47:29


where is she located? I could possibly rehome the dog with me? Am in Sussex.

PM me if that's a possibility? thanks

sooperdooper Wed 23-Jan-13 14:50:39

I wouldn't rehome - but your friend and her DP need to be much more reponsible - young children should not, under any circumstances be left alone with a dog, especially a young, easily excited puppy, for the sake of the dog & the child

As is usually the case, it's the owners who cause the majority of dog issues, not the animal

DeepRedBetty Wed 23-Jan-13 16:41:04

happynewmind so sorry it didn't work out for you and your dd - but I don't think your story is equivalent to the OP's friend's.

Did you think about rehoming an older, larger breed dog afterwards?

thegreylady Wed 23-Jan-13 16:58:30

It sounds as if the child was teasing the puppy with a toy-holding the toy up by her head while the puppy jumped up trying to get it. The puppy was not at fault here and I am sure he can be trained but the children must be taught too-no teasing and encouraging the dog to jump. Puppy classes will help a lot. However if she is going to rehome it needs to be now and preferably through a Breed Rescue rehoming service.

Nincompoopery Wed 23-Jan-13 17:06:46

Puppies and children HAVE to be supervised at all times. Our puppy is now 9 months old and I do not leave him alone with my 3 year old DD at all. Even in the same room accidents can happen and at this age that's all they are, accidents. DD may tease him, he may play too rough and don't forget puppies also go through teething just like children so there will be a bitey element at least for the first year.
Your friend in buying the puppy, has made a commitment to care for and love the puppy for the long term and should not be looking at getting rid at the first hurdle. However if she does not have the commitment to look after it then it will be in the puppies best interests to be returned to breeder so that a more appropriate home can be sought.

Nincompoopery Wed 23-Jan-13 17:10:46

Happynewmind, sorry to hear your story. You were obviously in it for the long haul and gave the puppy every chance to be a part of your family and did not give up at the first hurdle. unfortunately this did not work out for you but you did what was best for you, your family and the puppy.

SugarMouse1 Wed 23-Jan-13 17:11:40

How does your partners DD feel about this?

If she is now very frightened of the dog, then maybe you should rehome it. However, it would be a shame for her to be scared of dogs for life because she is going to meet them whatever happens, in her life.

How did you buy the puppy before christmas? I thought it was illegal to sell animals in the weeks before xmas for this reason.

Maybe consult a professional dog behaviourist if concerned.

recall Wed 23-Jan-13 17:16:28

chubbychipmonk Good on you for coming on here to get advise, I hope that the situation gets resolved in everyone's best interest, ( especially the pup ) best of luck smile

NothingIsAsBadAsItSeems Wed 23-Jan-13 17:21:28

So your friend bought a puppy for/around Xmas... As of course that is exactly what a responsible dog owner would do and what a responsible breeder would let happen...

As others have said children and dogs need to be supervised while together and they both need to be taught how to interact appropriately with each other, which it would seem hasn't happened since it sounds like your dps dd was teasing him. What did your friend think would happen if the puppy was teased? And they now want rid after one nip, best they never get another puppy or any dog since they are all capable of nipping even the most well trained ones

Puppies have limited knowledge of bite inhibition and do go through phases of nipping. It is up to the puppies owner to teach them not to nip, failure to do so leads to fully grown dogs nipping/biting...

If your friend does decide to rehome then, usually I would suggest returning the puppy to the breeder but since no decent breeder sells pups at Xmas I will recommend finding a breed specific rescue. There are a few dalmatian ones in the UK and puppies are generally easier to rehome. Do not advertise him on dodgy sites (Gumtree, freeads ect) since that's just asking for the dog to end up in a bad environment.

porridgewithalmondmilk Wed 23-Jan-13 17:24:45

I also had to rehome my much-adored dog. It was the hardest thing I have ever had to do and I still get upset now.

I used to live near my retired dog-loving father, who would have the dog during the day and then I would pick her up after work. Unfortunately, I was unlucky enough to experience workplace bullying. I did get another position but quite a long way away, meaning I had to move house. My poor little dog was left alone in the house. I tried so hard to make it work, but I couldn't - she was used to being held and loved all the time (she was a little lap-dog) so even a dog walker twice a day wasn't enough.

I rehomed her through a rescue centre but she went straight to her new home - I couldn't have left her in a pen. She lives with a vicar now smile

It breaks my heart to think of it, although it was the right thing, but my gentle little dog also nipped as a puppy. They just do, it's like babies teething. It doesn't mean they're nasty or aggressive!

I hope no one thinks I was heartless, I promise it was just horrendous and I miss her.

I have 3 cats now, all from a rescue centre, I hope one day I will be able to share my home with a dog again. I feel terrible that she was there for me when I neededher but I couldn't return the favour sad

NothingIsAsBadAsItSeems Wed 23-Jan-13 17:25:19

How did you buy the puppy before christmas? I thought it was illegal to sell animals in the weeks before xmas for this reason.

It's not illegal as far as I'm aware. Sellers are advised against it (reputable breeders refuse to let their pups go to new homes until after Xmas) and I don't think rescues let you adopt around Xmas

Branleuse Wed 23-Jan-13 17:34:44

ill take him if she wants

theodorakisses Wed 23-Jan-13 17:36:32

What did you expect with a Dalmation? Please don't try to rehome, it's not fair. Either keep or PTS.

D0oinMeCleanin Wed 23-Jan-13 17:40:56

You're not serious Theo, surely?! Pts over rehome? Why?

How is murder more fair than responsible rehoming. This is a puppy we are talking about, not an adult dog with issues.

coffeeinbed Wed 23-Jan-13 17:46:01

It's a puppy, they nip.
PTS - what are you on about?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pinot Wed 23-Jan-13 17:53:45

Theo! shock


Floralnomad Wed 23-Jan-13 17:57:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

biff23 Wed 23-Jan-13 18:09:00

Puppies bite, your friend shouldn't have got one if she didn't expect that to happen. She obviously doesn't know much about dogs.

5hounds Wed 23-Jan-13 19:32:03

I hate people that 'get rid' of there dogs. People like me have to pick up the pieces, I currently have 5 dogs here from rescue backgrounds.
Research and commit to that dog for its life. Or don't get one.
Puppys chew, they mouth, it hurts, there puppys

twinklesparkles Wed 23-Jan-13 19:42:13

Why was her daughter in another room with a dog??

I'm assuming they were alone...

rolls eyes

I don't know what your friend expected .. She got no common sense??

chubbychipmonk Wed 23-Jan-13 20:27:56

She was in the kitchen with the door open & DD & dog were in living room (straight through from kitchen).

Her DPs ex has now said that THEIR (DP & ex) daughter is not allowed to stay at the house anymore unless the dog goes. . . .

akaemmafrost Wed 23-Jan-13 20:39:41

KILL a puppy? Only 4 months old? Take it's life because it got a bit overexcited?

Are you willing to push the injection Theo?

coffeeinbed Wed 23-Jan-13 20:41:17

Well, her DP is a twat.

Get her to rehome it responsibly, then never any of them get a dog/puppy again.

akaemmafrost Wed 23-Jan-13 20:42:10

I'd be tempted to dump the DP. I couldn't find someone so ignorant and inflexible at all attractive I am afraid.

RarelyAGobshite Wed 23-Jan-13 20:47:39

You're trying to 'train' children

You're trying to 'train' a puppy

Leave them both together and the training fails.

They are both young, with little understanding of action/reaction. Puppy needs training and dc need guidelines on what to do/not do with pup.

Another pup bought without everything thought through by the sounds of it. hmm

Most dogs are fantastic when trained.

Untrained-they don't know how to behave. Christ! I struggle understanding some humans and I'm in my 30's! For a pup it must be very confusing.

chubbychipmonk Wed 23-Jan-13 20:49:10

That's a great input Theo. . . Thanks for those very 'helpful' words of wisdom!!

RarelyAGobshite Wed 23-Jan-13 20:50:37

Sorry-not you, you're friend.

Also, puppies nip. I have one, she nips and she's over a year old. (No cutting skin, just over excited)

To be honest your friend is being unreasonable if she thinks a puppy will not bite ever.

There is a world of difference between an aggressive dog biting or a puppy. It is just part of a puppies development and an owners responsibility to teach the puppy that humans don't like being treated like another pup and being nipped in play.

A puppy biting is no indicator of an aggressive dog. My 6 month old puppy very rarely nips even accidently now so it is a short lived phase if you are consistant.

Iteotwawki Wed 23-Jan-13 22:22:19

My puppy (retradoodle, 5 months old) jumps and used to bite. Still does when he gets very excited.

But we have house rules and he is slowly learning to obey them. When he's well behaved he gets lots of fuss and treats, the boys (5&6) are never left unsupervised with him and my husband is a sahd so DDog has company all day. Completely agree that she'll get out what she puts in with regard to puppy behaviour.

Whether or not to rehome depends on other family dynamics I would guess. I would not consider rehoming DDog for biting in play (would consider more training of dog, children and me though!) but my DH is very supportive of us having a family dog.

Rehoming now at least gives Pup a chance. When he's older with bad habits it may be a lot harder.

quoteunquote Wed 23-Jan-13 22:34:29

Dalmatian puppy, what a surprise.

they are carriage dogs, breed to run beside fire engines, before that border guard dogs, they need a serious amount of exercise to have their needs met,

If she bought if of a decent breeder then the breeder will of made a commitment to the dog for life, and will take it back, do not expect any money back, if she bought it from a dodgy breeder then,

contact these people to insure that the next owner meets it needs properly they really know what the breed requires, and will properly oversea a forever home.

is it deaf?

SpicyPear Wed 23-Jan-13 23:17:39

Did she consult with DP's ex before getting the dog? Because even though I love dogs, it is reasonable in my opinion not to want your child to stay in a house with a dog you don't know and an owner that can't be trusted to supervise properly. Just another issue that sounds as if it wasn't properly thought through.

spiritedaway Wed 23-Jan-13 23:27:23

Either learn about dogs and never leave little one and trusted pet alone. . or rehome- but YANBU to rehome your pup if you choose to. I mean she. smile

ilovesooty Thu 24-Jan-13 00:15:58

If the owner lives with the puppy at home and walks it 3 times a day and the dog walker only once a day, why did the dog walker have to advise the owner that the puppy might be deaf? Surely if this person is an experienced dog owner, she might have realised if something wasn't right?

TheRatsTheRats Thu 24-Jan-13 00:50:26

They are crap owners and irresponsible parents (on this occasion) as a child and a small puppy should never be unsupervised. Puppies play bite and with small razor sharp teeth it can easily cut. Some people should not be allowed pets. If they are thinking of rehoming because of this (their stupid mistake) they shouldn't be dog owners and should rehome asap before the poor thing is rehomed at a later date any way.

Poor child. Poor dog. Daft friend and DP.

maninawomansworld Thu 24-Jan-13 08:42:28

NEVER leave dogs with kids unsupervised (even if you're in the next room with the door open), doesn't matter whether it's a doberman or a shitsu!
Accidents can and do happen - the dog may have seen in at boysterous play, or the DC may have just gotten in the way at the last moment as the dog went for the toy.

WHen they're being annoyed, a little nip is a dogs way of saying 'oi, cut that out' when it's ear / tail / fur is being pulled by some over unthusiastic 5 year old who's trying to 'play horsey' with the dog.
Most dogs will repeatedly move away from a child who is annoying them but there's only so many times one will move before it thinks 'christ , I've had enough of this' and in it's own way tells the child to bugger off.

Anyone getting a dog should take the time to LEARN ABOUT CANINE BEHAVIOUR and then SUPERVISE THE CHILDREN PROPERLY abound them. It's not rocket science. There are no such things a bad dogs, just bad owners!

In answer to the question, I wouldn't get rid of the puppy in this stuation, I'd supervise the kids properly and attend some doggy training classes to help give me an understanding of their behaviour.
If your friend is unwilling to do something like this then maybe they should get rid of the pup and send it to a home where it will be understood and it's needs properly met by a responsible owner.

BinarySolo Thu 24-Jan-13 09:31:34

I think op's friend has learnt the supervision lesson the hard way. I think really she has 2 options open to her:

1. Rehome the dog
2. Rehome dp

I'm in favour of option 2.

Joking aside, I do think he needs to be on board with keeping and looking after a dog for it to work. Reading between the lines, I'm guessing the dog was more something your friend wanted than him - it bit her dd, but this was still reported back to his ex.

It seems your friend should have researched better with regard to suitable breeds and reputable breeders, but if she is prepared to put the work in (and it sounds like she is) she can still make things right. I do honestly worry about the dp not wanting the dog and having an 'attitude' towards it that mat influence the children's behaviour.

LittleMissStupid Thu 24-Jan-13 09:39:15

You friend is a complete TWAT. I hope she never gets another pet again, as she doesnt sound like she is intelligent enough to look after a flea nevermind a pet.

Poor poor dog.

I know it's been said, but I want to say it too.

Your friend and her partner are complete twats.

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 24-Jan-13 09:56:05

Poor puppy, it sounds like it was just being a puppy, they all play bite, and your friend sounds very responsible.
If I was her I'd get rid of the Dp, how dare he put her in that position.

irishkitkat Thu 24-Jan-13 09:57:24

This dog owner made a mistake, she left her 4 year old child and a puppy unattended in a room for 5 minutes, with the door open. Yes it was foolish but it was a mistake, everybody makes mistakes and I'm sure she regrets it. However, other than that one mistake what has she done to deserve the venom being spewed at her on this thread? She walks the dog regularly, she takes it to puppy training, presumably she feeds and waters it. She does all the things new dog owners are advised to do and made one mistake. Rehome the dog or don't rehome the dog, OP's friend, but please don't take the numerous insults on this thread to heart.

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 24-Jan-13 09:58:25

I agree irishkitkat.

BinarySolo Thu 24-Jan-13 10:05:11

I think the insults are really uncalled for. Honestly though op, I think the phrase 'get rid' as opposed to 'rehome' will have made people ragey.

Get rid implies a callousness which I from the other information you've given doesn't seem to apply to your friend. I really believe people would be reacting with less venom if the title said rehome.

I have to be honest if I was the mother of that child I would not want them to be in your friends home again either, (and I have two dogs) so yes I think you do have a problem.

But, this is not the dogs fault at all, a dalmation will grow to a dalmation size and puppies are puppies they jump, play and generally get up mischief. I`m afraid sadly in this case I would recommend you re-homing it through one of the avenues that have been suggested above, I cannot see a happy ending for it if not, and hopefully it is still young enough to get a good home.

I have to say, its so infuriating and saddening that yet another puppy had been bought without proper research and thought. Puppies/dogs take so much commitment and work, you really have to be serious to get a dog.

MariusEarlobe Thu 24-Jan-13 10:08:49

I have a scar on my nose that puppy did playing too rough when I was a child, puppy got giddy playing and ripped my nose.

D0oinMeCleanin Thu 24-Jan-13 10:09:52

However, other than that one mistake what has she done to deserve the venom being spewed at her on this thread?

Well, in no particular order she has...

Bought a puppy with known health problems from a BYB or puppy farm
Bought a puppy as a present
Bought a puppy without researching the breed properly
Left the puppy unsupervised with young children
Is now pondering on whether to punish the puppy for her mistake.

Booyhoo Thu 24-Jan-13 10:11:40

these type of OPs depress me so much.

Well said Irishkitkat.

I wonder where she got the dog from?
If it was a breeder, would they not question the owner about the family background, history as a dog owner, were all the adults in the house on board.

If she got her puppy from a breeder (as in proper breeder, not someone she knew that had puppies) then they would take the pup back.

Why did she decide on a dalmation though. There are loads of dogs round our way and I've seen maybe 1 or 2 dalmations (they would stick out because they are so beautiful).
But the owners said they were very hard work. Their mindset is different to a lab or a terrier.
One thing for sure, he's going to grow into a big dog in time.

irishkitkat Thu 24-Jan-13 10:15:35

I'm sorry I must have missed all that information in the OPs posts, could you direct me to the relevant posts? She bought the puppy around Christmas time, I don't think the OP says it was a present. Also I see no reference to puppy farming or the fact that the OPs friend didn't research properly. In fact I think the OP says the friend is an experienced dog owner. And she is pondering rehoming the puppy because that is what her DP and his ex want her to do. It was a mistake.

Booyhoo Thu 24-Jan-13 10:17:10

i really think there needs to be some sort of national campaign because clearly some people still see getting a dog as akin to buying a pair of shoes- see the ones you like the look of, wear them once on a night out and curse the shoes when you cant walk in them properly so you sell them on ebay.

it's a fucking living creature. it has a brain that processes feelings of fear and insecurity the same way a non verbal baby does. how can people not see this? do people really buy dogs expecting them to sit like statues and require no supervision or proper stimulation?

OwlLady Thu 24-Jan-13 10:19:30

me too booyhoo

this is why rescues are full of unwanted puppies in february and march, worser probelm is they were full prior to christmas sad

OwlLady Thu 24-Jan-13 10:22:28

I really don't buy this inexperienced dog owner shit either, everyone starts off inexperienced to some degree even if you have had dogs as a child. You have a dog and you keep it and work with it to make it a better behaved dog and you look after it and love it. That really is all there is to it. feed, walk, play, train, keep well. That's it. It's far easier than having a child imo anyway, and they live their life alongside yours and when they get old and die you are devastated because they were your one constant. I think some people really miss out, but these poor animals sad

Crinkle77 Thu 24-Jan-13 10:23:41

This is the reason why people should not buy puppies especially at xmas. It is so annoying that people do not consider the consequences before getting an animal then just toss it aside when things don't work out as expected. I know it bit your daughter but this is what puppies do. They are excitable and playful. When I was little we had a puppy that would nip our ankles but she grew out of it.

This thread fully demonstrates why I :
a) have hidden the Dog House topic and
b) would never ever post for advice about my dog on mumsnet.

Crinkle77 Thu 24-Jan-13 10:24:23

Sorry not your daughter, your friends daughter

Booyhoo Thu 24-Jan-13 10:25:51

i say bring back tamigotchis. would save alot of real dogs being born and passed about from home to home by people who just want a toy they can set down when they're bored/it's too much hard work.

D0oinMeCleanin Thu 24-Jan-13 10:26:12

If she had bought the puppy from a reputable breeder, this would not be an issue, the breeder would be on hand to give advise/take the puppy back to re home via reputable contacts.

A reputable breeder would not sell a puppy at Christmas time, they wouldn't even breed at Christmas time.

Why else would you buy a puppy at Christmas time (a busy time, of high stress) if not for a present? It's the worst time of year to take on a puppy, leaving aside the moral issue of giving live animals as presents.

If she had gone to a reputable breeder, she would know for certain whether the puppy was deaf as tests would have been done.

A reputable Dalmatian breeder is highly unlikely to home a young, demanding puppy to a family who work so much and have young children

Had the friend researched at all the size of the puppy would be no surprise to her and she would know not to make 'mistakes' wrt supervision and training of the children/high energy, demanding puppy.

'Mistakes' wrt leaving young children and puppies/dogs alone together are not that easy to make if you are vigilant. It becomes habit very quickly. I still sometimes call my dogs to leave the room with me even when the children are in bed/at school because it has become an automatic response. The risks leaving them entails is not worth not being vigilant about. Had OP's friend left a hot iron/scalding kettle/sharp knife/matches in reach of her toddler 'by mistake' would people be so sympathetic? It's the same thing. Young children and puppies are a danger to one another. You learn very quickly to keep your eye on them.

Anniegetyourgun Thu 24-Jan-13 10:28:59

A pedant writes:

It's Dalmatian ffs! Not "dalmation". No wonder autocorrect thinks it should be "damnation". Even my spellchecker knows it's Dalmatian. (It doesn't like the word spellchecker though...)

Oh, and I'm another voting to rehome the DP. They'll get much more love and entertainment from the dog.

No experienced dog owner would buy a puppy at xmas or leave children and dogs unsupervised for a second.

People like this are the reason I now have another dog. A rescue that was with me for a while, went to another home and apparently snapped at their older child. So they left him to live outside for 2 months.

And surely it must be common sense that puppies are very hard work. You cannot buy a puppy and then a couple of weeks later go back to full time work.

Is the puppy crated all day whilst your friend is at work?

Twattybollocks Thu 24-Jan-13 10:48:16

An experienced dog owner would not be considering rehoming a puppy which had nipped a child after being left alone playing with it though!
My puppy nipped both my kids whilst playing on several different occasions, and I considered it par for the course.
Leave a couple of toddlers in a room unsupervised and you can almost guarantee that one of them is going to be crying because the other has hit it over the head with a toy, it's what toddlers do until they learn more acceptable behaviour! Same with puppies, just because a puppy nips it doesn't mean it's going to grow up into an aggressive dog!

Geeklover Thu 24-Jan-13 10:49:29

I like Pinot could possibly offer the dog a home depending on location.
My pensioner would love a playful younger model (he's hasn't realised he's not a puppy anymore himself)

mrsjay Thu 24-Jan-13 10:50:50

this is also the reason I have my dog he was bought for a young family and he had no training and was still is sometimes nippy I think that is how he got attention, My dog isn't aggresive he just didn't know any better, sometimes puppies and little children don't mix

DeepRedBetty Thu 24-Jan-13 10:52:26

Rehome the DP.

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 24-Jan-13 10:53:00

It does seem to me that this wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't for the wanky partner.
Who works offshore but still thinks he can tell Op's friend what to do with the dog.
If what he thinks is more important than Op's friend concentrating on training (which according to the Op, she was doing) then she should rehome.
Personally I'd keep the dog and get shot of the partner, it's her home.

theodorakisses Thu 24-Jan-13 10:54:16

floralnomad, that wasn't me, I do like animals I am just sick to death of idiotic vain twats buying designer dogs and then dumping them on people like me. Who in their right mind would want a boisterous dalmation? It feels so good "rehoming" your dog when you are bored of it. The reality of it is people like me end up bearing the financial and emotional cost or is just as likely to be pts at a rescue or dumped by the next vain twat and left as a stray.

My comment was stupid and rash and I apologise to everyone except floral. I live in Qatar and sometimes forget this is a nasty harsh place not the UK where people do rescue dogs, although I still wonder what future there is for an untrained unsocialised designer dog.

Anyway floral , please withdraw your accusation about the cat thread. I couldn't care less if a cat scratches a kid, hardly a crime of the century. If you want to insult me and call me names then fine but do not lie. I am very angry, I hate liars.

mrsjay Thu 24-Jan-13 10:56:40

He sounds a twat tbh but if the kids mum is creating about the dog and not letting the child go back until they are rid of the friend must be all over the place

This puppy isn't at the untrained unsocialised stage (yet) it's a puppy who has caused a bite/nip resulting in a hospital visit, stitches and a tetnus for a child.

If it was an adult that was bitten, no-one would think it odd that a mouthy puppy had maybe gone for a toy . But a child should not have been left with a puppy.
Maybe the child was teasing the puppy.? The owner won't know.
The puppy is having training classes. They can give her advice (I'm sure it's normal for a puppy to be bitey. But it's behaviour that needs corrected)

It's the DP and the DPex who don't want the dog near their DD.
The OP thinks keeping the pup is BU and too big a risk.

She's done a stupid thing (and who hasn't) She's been a bit stupid with her purchase of the dog.

But she needs to decide what's in the best interest all round.
And though the DP is being an arse, maybe there's history there. He might have been bitten as a child. Or his DD?

Was it the partners DD that was bitten? If so, you cant blame the mother for not wanting her to go back there whilst the dog is there can you. That doesnt mean its the dogs fault, it should never have been left with the children, but I can see it makes it difficult for the girls parents.

theodorakisses Thu 24-Jan-13 11:19:30

It is irresponsible, selfish and stupid to get a dog in the first place if all parties don't agree. The mother has every right to say where her daughter does and doesn't go but how in the actual world can such a small dog be a biter? Nasty little needle teeth that nibble but a baby biter? Sounds like a load of rubbish to me, sounds more like she got the designer toy against his wishes and now him and his ex who probably doesn't like dogs either are uniting over it against her. Sounds like it is about more than just a black and white spotty dog.

mrsjay Thu 24-Jan-13 11:27:29

No it was her own child I was wrong sorry,

This makes no sense to me.

where is the puppy all day? I know he gets a walk in the morning and a walk at lunch but where is he for the rest of the time?

It's great the dog is going to puppy classes but is he still being trained at home as well?

BinarySolo Thu 24-Jan-13 11:33:21

Exactly theo why did the ex even need to know? It wasn't her child that was bitten.

Pandemoniaa Thu 24-Jan-13 11:44:17

I can't see the situation ending well. I very much doubt that the puppy came from a reputable breeder if bought at Christmas and I also doubt that any breed research was done before buying a Dalmation. They are beautiful dogs but often chosen for all the wrong reasons. The pup doesn't sound vicious either but instead, was behaving like boisterous pups do. Pups are bitey but they get through this stage. However this is precisely why you are careful not to leave excitable small children alone with excitable pups!

Now that the partner and partner's ex are weighing in with demands to get rid if the pup I suspects it's days in this household are numbered. So please ensure your friend does the best she can for him. Get in touch with Dalmation Rescue and rehome it responsibly. That's the least they owe the poor pup.

chubbychipmonk Thu 24-Jan-13 11:44:34

Theo your wrong. . . He bought her the dog, he was 100% behind the decision to get the dog.

Needle teeth or not, it bit her daughter for whatever reason, drew blood & required stitches. I have seen the photo of the injury on her phone.

countrykitten Thu 24-Jan-13 12:06:24

Ummm - how can this puppy be only 3 months old if she has had it since Xmas? Pups should not leave their mothers until at least 12 weeks old. Only puppy farms or cretins who know nothing would let a pup go at this age when he is still learning socialisation from his mother. But no reputable dog person would sell a pup at Xmas as only idiots would buy a dog for Xmas and they would not want to risk their precious puppy ending up with people like your friend.

This is an absolute disaster for this poor dog and your friend and her husband should be ashamed of themselves. For what it's worth, a breed rescue is the way that she should go as she is clearly not a fit person to own a dog in any case. Poor pup - what a shit start in life.

Can you tell that I am annoyed?

countrykitten Thu 24-Jan-13 12:07:19

Sorry if repeating what others have said but it is so depressing and infuriating.

theodorakisses Thu 24-Jan-13 12:08:33

If it drew blood and required stitches then that is a big deal. Hard to say without being there but I would not redone a dog if they had reacted in that way. None of this adds up, I don't really get it. I thought dogs who caused hospital treatment in the UK were destroyed. I am not being rude, I genuinely don't understand why you would keep it

LittleMissStupid Thu 24-Jan-13 12:08:45

So have you told your friend any of the responces on this thread?

Has she/ they accepted that they are complete twats?

thegreylady Thu 24-Jan-13 12:11:57

It is hard to imagine a 12 week old puppy causing an injury that requires stitches!

hoodoo12345 Thu 24-Jan-13 13:10:51

I think the dog deserves another chance, he is a small puppy and still learning right and wrong.
They need to supervise him more and train him more.

atacareercrossroads Thu 24-Jan-13 13:15:24

She should absolutely rehome. Responsibly. And not get a pet again. Well, a fish might be alright I guess

TheOriginalLadyFT Thu 24-Jan-13 13:21:11

Frankly I'd advise rehoming because they don't sound suitable owners for a Dalmatian more than the fact that the puppy nipped her

Why do people not do some proper research into dog breeds before they buy them? Dalmatians are carriage dogs, bred to run alongside carriages and thus cover huge distances - they are just not suitable generally to live in an ordinary family home with walkies round the park twice a day

I speak from experience here - family member bought one (absolutely against everyone's advice) and no amount of walkies stopped the dog from becoming bored and miserable in their house. Eventually he had a good go at eating their kitchen while they were at work - and was regimes to a farm, where he is now happy as he spends his life running around burning off his huge reserves of energy

TheOriginalLadyFT Thu 24-Jan-13 13:21:53

Rehomed not regimes

Bloody autocorrect

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Thu 24-Jan-13 13:24:03

I'm sorry but your friend and her DP are obviously idiots. Did they not do any research before they bought the dog? Dalmatians are big, strong dogs that need a lot of exercise and attention.

I would never buy a dog like that to be around small children. I hate that people think 'oh yet a puppy' then 2 weeks later realise that having a puppy is a huge commitment and get rid of it.


FWIW the dog is a puppy, they nip, if they knew anything about dogs they would know that.

LadyClariceCannockMonty Thu 24-Jan-13 13:30:47

I'd say rehome the poor thing rather than condemning it to live in a household with people so clearly ignorant of the behaviour of particular breeds and/or puppies.

On the other hand, dogs should never be left alone with children.

On the other other hand, I know rehoming wouldn't be that easy, and God forbid the poor dog end up being PTS because no one wants it.

Maybe Dalmation Welfare can re-educate her and save the situation. Whatever happens, it was NOT the dog's fault.

chubbychipmonk Thu 24-Jan-13 13:32:28

Yes she has read the posts and is grateful for advice . . . Although some of the name calling is a bit uncalled for.

To clarify, her DD did indeed need stitches, hard as it may seem to believe. The bite was behind her DD ear. Obv since no adult witnessed it she can't be 100% sure if it was bite or claws however doctors at hospital are pretty sure it's bite.

The dog was bought from a breeder in Arran on 10th Dec (apologies if i implied it was given gift wrapped on Xmas day) & she travelled up to Arran to purchase it.

StuntGirl Thu 24-Jan-13 13:42:20

The best thing for the puppy is for the humans in its life to accept that they were absolute idiots with no real understanding of this breed, to accept it was not the puppy's fault what happened and to rectify that by doing some serious research into the breed and its needs, and making sure they meet those needs. That includes never leaving children alone with the dog, and ensuring it has adequate exercise - both mental and physical.

If they cannot do that, for any reason, the second thing for you your friend to do would be to find a reputable rescue centre which specialises in dalmatians who will not put healthy animals to sleep and let them find a loving, new home for this poor dog.

Ullena Thu 24-Jan-13 13:46:50

And what does the breeder say? Are they offering any advice/support/taking puppy back?

Also, did the DP buy it or did your friend? You say he bought it for her, then that she travelled up to the breeder to buy it...what actually happened?

Had they viewed the litter/got to know them, been quizzed by the breeder, etc?

Sorry, this doesn't add up. If the pup was bought on 10th December, and is now 12 weeks, then it cannot have been old enough to leave its mum when bought! And at 12 weeks, it is only just old enough to join classes...not to have been doing them for a while...

SpicyPear Thu 24-Jan-13 13:56:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SamSmalaidh Thu 24-Jan-13 14:00:21

How old was the puppy when she bought it?

D0oinMeCleanin Thu 24-Jan-13 14:06:03

Ignoring all the inconsistencies, which could lead a more suspicious person to believe that the puppy was indeed bought from a puppy mill for a present....

If your friend is still reading and still wants to keep the puppy, she's going to need to make a lot of changes to make this work.

A few walks a day is not enough for this breed, as an adult it will need at least 2 x 60 minutes, with a fair portion of that off lead. We bred these dogs for stamina and did a jolly good job at it, unfortunately this means they are not suited to laid back, family life. Exercise should be built up over a period of time in large breeds, to avoid injury to the growing joints. 5 minutes per month of life and no running on hard surfaces/jumping/excessive stair climbing until it's fully grown. This means she will have a high energy demanding puppy who is going to need someone to give it a lot of attention and things to do while it is growing to keep it busy. Clicker training and mind games will suffice for this Kikopup is excellent for tips on clicker training. Training at least once per day is a must for a young dog, although shorter, frequent sessions would be better.

Leaving a puppy alone that long is cruel and will lead to behavioral issues. Your friend needs to replace the dog walker with doggy day care, one who will assist with training would be best, but that does not mean your friend gets to not train on doggy daycare days.

She needs to stick at the puppy classes and also find some one on one help to help her teach bite inhibition.

The puppy should have a crate where it can go to chill out/be safe from the children.

It must never, ever, ever, be left with the children without close, adult supervision again. Not even for five seconds. The phone rings, puppy comes with mum or dad or goes in it's crate before she answers it. No excuses.

This is the minimum your friend needs to do to keep this pup safe and happy, if she can't commit to that, she does need to rehome and as said plenty of times before never get another pet.

fatnfrumpy Thu 24-Jan-13 14:09:10

We are looking to get a new puppy since we lost out GSD last year. We live on a farm with no young children.
We are in the south east if she is interested in rehoming.

OwlLady Thu 24-Jan-13 14:09:14

goodness me this is another world, why have they all got daft names? <projecting>

Thanquol Thu 24-Jan-13 14:16:33


This could have been much worse, I'm glad to see that it wasn't.

Puppies tend to bite - they are puppies and don't know any better yet.

This event makes me think that this person didn't know or understand that a dog of any age should never be left alone with a child - Including "In the same room but not in sight". - I hope that they realise this now.

In the short term, again – puppies bite.

In the short AND long term - No matter how well trained or well behaved the dog has been in the past, people, including children, can inadvertently make the dog feel threatened one way or another. (There are always clues, subtle or otherwise.)

With no adult to step in and stop the child doing whatever it is doing... a dog is an animal, and when all else fails in dealing with a situation, it will revert to instinct.
Especially a risk if (and this is a slightly crude explanation) the dog perceives the "pack hierarchy" in such a way that considers itself to be above the child.

In this instance, it is possible it is just the puppy being a puppy - hard to say given the naturally limited information (very hard to get a feel for a dog’s behaviour from a few lines of text!)

I am a little uneasy with the idea of getting rid of the puppy, but it does sound like this person does not entirely know how to handle this dog (again, with the limited information from original post, ect ect.. I've not had the chance to read the entire thread...)
Whenever obtaining a dog, it is always a good idea to have first researched usual characteristics of the breed(s) being considered before obtaining a puppy, because if they do not have the time to correctly train and stimulate the dog, it will NOT behave and WILL be a risk to have around.

If they are sure they can handle this animal, train it, and raise their child to respect and command it as well (if not better) as they can, keep it!

But the most important thing to remember is that this dog is an animal, and must be treated like one - with kindness and love, but NOT as a son or daughter, as I have seen so many people make the mistake of in the past.

Please google pack theory.

Its a very outdated theory.

D0oinMeCleanin Thu 24-Jan-13 14:26:02

Dogs don't live in packs, that is wolves. Wolves have a pack hierarchy similar to ours, parents and elder siblings lead through experience and knowledge. There's no squabbling to get to top of the pack. That only happens when most dangerous animal of all gets involved and pulls them out the family unit to stick in Zoos for our viewing pleasure.

Also dogs are not wolves and before anyone says "Oh, but they are descended from wolves, they are the same" I am descended from an Ape, but I don't go throwing shit at people who annoy me or eating lice off of my children.

Sorry but I'm still wondering where on earth that poor dog is, all day, whilst the owner is at work.
Because aside from the fact it's a stupid idea to leave a little puppy alone alone, apart from a walk in the afternoon, I can only imagine its crated all day otherwise it would be chewing everything.

BigDog was crated all flipping day and night by his previous "owners"

It's horrible. He was a very unhappy, scared, mess when we rescued him.

theodorakisses Thu 24-Jan-13 14:36:09

For the public s safety please report the doctor immediately. There is absoloutely no way you would say you can't decide if its a claw or a bite, they are comletely different mechanisms and even the juniourest junior of housemen would be able to differentiate. I am seriously beginning to doubt thgis thread, it is full of holes. Weird dog weird owners weird hospital

OwlLady Thu 24-Jan-13 14:37:00

I used to live by a place that had wolves. The hand reared wolves would attack you (apparently) but the ones in the enclosure wouldn't and I saw staff walking around in there

OwlLady Thu 24-Jan-13 14:37:36

by the ones in the enclosure, I meant the ones that were not hand reared by humans!

D0oinMeCleanin Thu 24-Jan-13 14:44:06

Wolves have a different 'crucial development' stages to dogs. Wolves period of critical socialisation starts much earlier than with dogs, when they are still blind and deaf, and is shorter too, so it's much harder to socialise them safely with humans.

The wolves in the enclosure will not have seen humans during this critical period and so would be afraid of them, which normally leads to avoidance, unless forced into a confrontation, in which case they would attack out of self defense.

Which sanctuary was this OwlLady? I wouldn't mind Googling it to see if they've published any research, I'm study Canine Evolution at the moment and as part of that we have to learn about wolves and the differences between the two. It's fascinating stuff.

theodorakisses Thu 24-Jan-13 14:45:15

I have a 10 week old Pitbull foster in my kitchen, he keeps getting beaten up by the cats. I don't think he would be physically strong enough to tear skin and he has a big old set f jaws on him. His owners excuse for dumping him was that the child is allergic. Its funny how 99.999% of the shallow people I encounter have allergic children and the nice jolly dog lovers kids survive hair and slobber and the odd shared bonio

coffeeinbed Thu 24-Jan-13 14:46:59

My dog was a nippy as hell when he was a pup.
he grew out of it it though and is lovely now.

D0oinMeCleanin Thu 24-Jan-13 14:48:35

I dunno, Theo, I effectively had my ear pierced by a four month old GSD pup as a young teen. T'was my own fault for getting her over excited and play wrestling, but it bloody hurt, she was only playing but her tooth went right through my earlobe. I still have the scar. It a tooth has caught in the wrong place, it could have ripped the skin. Those puppy teeth are deadly grin

Thanquol Thu 24-Jan-13 14:49:50

Ah, I see I have some misunderstandings, quite understandable - I'm short on time guys, so just quickly, and at the risk of further misunderstanding on what I'm saying (text is such a limiting medium at times!), as I said originaly:

"when all else fails in dealing with a situation, it will revert to instinct."
"...this is a slightly crude explanation... (pack stuff)"

We revert to instinct too at times (Flight or fight), so anyone that says dogs never, ever use "the pack" as a way of dealing with a situation is cutting themselves off from a potentially useful way of understanding them.

(Also, mentioning this as a personal bugbear... we aren't descended from apes; we're both descended from a common ancestor!)

Thanks guys smile

mrsjay Thu 24-Jan-13 14:49:54

as I said before my dog was nippy when we got him he was given up because of nipping don't people know that puppies bite and jump and nip do they expect them to be perfectly behaved and stay that 'awwy' puppy forever ?

countrykitten Thu 24-Jan-13 14:53:46

If this pup is now three months old and it was bought on Dec 10th.....then it must literally have been about 6 WEEKS OLD when bought. This is far, far too young. Bloody hell. Do people know nothing?

D0oinMeCleanin Thu 24-Jan-13 14:55:53

Fight, flight, freeze or 'flirt' is an instinct all mammals have, cutting pack theory out of the question does not 'cut off a potentially useful way of understanding them' on contrary. Dogs do not, nor have they ever lived in packs with rigid hierarchies. They are also perfectly aware that we are people and they are dogs. They do not, nor have they ever tried to dominate us or become 'top dog', using pack theory to explain problematic behavior, is lazy and and and as much as use as comparing the dogs behavior to that of a goldfish.

Dooin "I don't go round throwing shit at people who annoy me"

Well when I came in asking for House Special, Meat House Special, that certainly wasn't chilli sauce you threw at me grin blush

D0oinMeCleanin Thu 24-Jan-13 15:00:07

grin @70.

I had another one of those today, although he asked for a 'Cantonese special' so I only had to narrow it down from around 15 different meals <sigh>

Ullena Thu 24-Jan-13 15:05:01

Countrykitten, my math says five and a half weeks angry

batteryhen Thu 24-Jan-13 15:08:29

Can I asks question? When I was in Botswana, there were wild dogs which were native to the area. The guide told us they lived in a pack and one dog was always dominant. This certainly looked the case?

Ullena Thu 24-Jan-13 15:12:53

Hen, do you mean actual african wild dogs? Sort of giant fox sort of looking?

MrsDeVere Thu 24-Jan-13 15:14:12

I despair.
I really do.

batteryhen Thu 24-Jan-13 15:18:10

More brown and white, moth eaten looking!

Ullena Thu 24-Jan-13 15:20:48

Hen, google african wild dogs to see if they are what you saw smile Completely different to the domestic dog.

batteryhen Thu 24-Jan-13 15:31:04

Had a google, they are the ones. It says in the write up that the wild dogs resemble wolves in their social structure and are usually dominated by a breeding pair? I just remember the guide saying that the dogs will have a dominant member who rules the roost so to speak!

SpicyPear Thu 24-Jan-13 15:33:49

Battery I'm not sure what your point is. I've only seen African Wild Dogs at a zoo, but it was pretty obvious they wouldn't have much in common with my domestic dogs.

batteryhen Thu 24-Jan-13 15:38:39

Just saying that peoplesay the dominance theory doesn't exist in dogs, which is the exact opposite to what we were told. That wild dogs do have a pack leader and they dominate the pack.

Rachael1880 Thu 24-Jan-13 15:39:59


We unfortunately passed our puppy to family for a couple of weeks until we got settled, but she ended up staying up there as our Aunt really enjoyed having her, for us it worked out okay.

Susan2kids Thu 24-Jan-13 15:42:47

Yes it is massively unreasonable to get a puppy and then get rid of it because you cant be bothered to supervise your children around it. It actually makes me angry that people like that are even allowed to keep pets again.

Ullena Thu 24-Jan-13 15:43:21

African wild dogs are an entirely different species of canidae. They are not related to domestic dogs. Thinks african wild dogs look very adorable and also terrifying

Ullena Thu 24-Jan-13 15:45:03

I actually really hope this puppy goes to a breed rescue, as if all the info is correct, it was sold at 5 1/2 weeks old...

Floralnomad Thu 24-Jan-13 15:46:25

Off the point but I'd like to apologise to theodorakissess , as I said at the time I may have been mistaken , which I was , but I'm quite happy to admit when I'm wrong ! Thank you for being such a reasonable person in your responses!

batteryhen Thu 24-Jan-13 15:54:21

Thanks Ullena. They were cute looking but I still didn't want to get too close!

theodorakisses Thu 24-Jan-13 16:00:22

Sorry too, peace please. Carrot the foster pup said he wouldn't mind getting rid of the big black cat, it has scratched him and he wants something done now!

D0oinMeCleanin Thu 24-Jan-13 16:12:09

That would explain a lot of things, puppies need to stay with their mothers until 8 weeks old. This is where they start learning many important skills including bite inhibition. Removing them too early, especially to an inexperienced home almost always leads to behavior issues. This is why rescues prefer to put abandoned puppies in with other litters rather than hand rearing.

BinarySolo Thu 24-Jan-13 16:13:29

I agree this thread seems to be full of drip fed contradictions. My advice is to the puppy. Leave the bastards!

Ullena Thu 24-Jan-13 16:17:29

Hopefully it will, once able sad

StuntGirl Thu 24-Jan-13 16:32:00

Binary grin

OwlLady Thu 24-Jan-13 17:09:20

D0oinMeCleanin, it was Wildwood, Herne Common, Kent

Booyhoo Thu 24-Jan-13 17:31:00

"My advice is to the puppy. Leave the bastards! "

best post of the thread! grin

Booyhoo Thu 24-Jan-13 17:32:35

and shock @ 5 1/2 week puppy being taken from it's mum and siblings! fucking idiots! both buyers and sellers. angry

chubbychipmonk Thu 24-Jan-13 18:24:32

Ok. . . Apologies to those who feel this information is being drip friend. Like I said, I posted this for a friend (who is a work colleague. . So it's kinda being drip fed to me too!).

Just to confirm:

The DP bought her the puppy, he paid for it, they travelled to Arran together & bought it.

I'm unsure how much research was done into the breeder/ litter

It was bought on 10th Dec, the puppy was about 6 weeks old when she bought him, he's now 14 weeks (if these dates don't add up don't shoot the messenger. . This is only what I've been told!)

She wasn't in work this afternoon but will get an update & let you all know the outcome.

FWIW I agree with the majority, very sad situation for the puppy & despite her best attempts at walking/ puppy classes etc the choice of dog was probably not thought through as well as should have been.

ElsieMc Thu 24-Jan-13 18:44:37

My Springer Spaniel jumped up and caught my DD1 just under her eye when she was very young. He had got out into the garden and I had not noticed. It marked her and I felt so full of guilt for so long afterwards. It was my fault not the dogs -yet I was an experienced owner. We let him go to a breeder who would assess then rehome him for us. She rang me that evening and told me he was so hyper, despite our best efforts with exercise, that we had done the right thing.

Dalmations are big, powerful dogs and hard to train. It sounds to me as though this dog is incompatible with the family and it is kinder all round to rehome him. It would be so unfair for him to be the cause of such dispute and inevitable scapegoating.

6 weeks old? She bought home a 6 week old puppy?

There's no more words.

countrykitten Thu 24-Jan-13 19:15:07

Yes - depressing and shocking but all too commonplace. I have a rescued puppy farm breeding bitch whose pups would be taken from her at 4/5 weeks old and sold on to stupid, uncaring and ill educated people. And then she would be mated again. And again. The conditions she endured were beyond belief.

I wonder if this is a similar situation. sad

chubbychipmonk Thu 24-Jan-13 20:06:11

How old are puppies meant to be when taken from their mother/ litter? (Never had a puppy, my dog is rescue dog so have no clue)

Booyhoo Thu 24-Jan-13 20:13:29

8 weeks minimum. they learn vital behaviours and social skills in those last few weeks that can create problems later if it isn't allowed to happen. it really is a very important stage for the puppy.

coffeeinbed Thu 24-Jan-13 20:15:44

Our breeder gave them at 8 for experienced dog owners and 9 for first timers.

countrykitten Thu 24-Jan-13 21:52:37

Very many breeders will say 12 weeks and give first vacs too.

sniggy01 Thu 24-Jan-13 22:07:50

I think that they should rehome the dog for its own sake - it will only get worse as there is obviously hostility towards the puppy that will make him crave more attention. He's just a baby.
I have 2 dogs and would never leave either alone with mine or any children - although the dogs have never shown any aggresion. What so many people forget is at the end of the day they are animals and don't think like we do.
I'm quite sure this puppy was just playing but no one was monitoring this play and letting the puppy know its behaviour is not good.
I taught my children that if they wanted the game to stop with a puppy you have to turn away and ignore it - the more children scream,shout, roll on the floor the more the puppy thinks they are playing.
You just have to watch a litter of puppies playing to see they nip and bite each other - they yelp if it gets too rough and move away.

Mama1980 Wed 18-Sep-13 07:59:31

Words fail me
I got my dog springer x lurcher at 8 weeks from a accidental litter heading to rescue. I was told at the time that usually 12 weeks old s best for both socialisation and basic good manners. She needed masses of training and tlc, she was in a bad way when we got her.
she accidentally caught my 15 year old dds hand trying to get a toy and misjudged, she was about 16 weeks and drew blood. Never once did I consider not keeping her, it was a accident. She's now 2 devoted, well trained and soft as butter, but it has taken a lot of hard work.
The company aspect for the pup doesn't seem enough here, he's getting walked but what about held or fussed or played with? My girl adores company however will manage for about 6 hours quite happily now on the rare occasions its necessary (I filmed her to check blushgrin) but as Pup would have gone crazy.
Having said all that if your friend is going to remove the sooner the better for the pups sake confused

SilverApples Wed 18-Sep-13 08:07:00

Mama, why did you resurrect a zombie thread?
What was the point?

BlatantRedhead Wed 18-Sep-13 08:32:15

We had a border collie who as a puppy bit my little sister (5 at the time). Sis had to have stitches, still has the scar. We had that dog for 14 years, she never did it again and was a wonderful dog.

Never ever ever leave children alone with an untrained/half-train puppy.

BlatantRedhead Wed 18-Sep-13 08:33:02

Lol only just noticed how old this thread is!

LadyMacbethWasMisunderstood Wed 18-Sep-13 09:14:58

Puppies are not unlike toddlers. Some bite when they get excited or teased. Also like toddlers they should be supervised when with children.

Your friend BVU not to have properly considered how this would all pan out and to supervise properly. But if she cannot cope and look after the puppy properly then rge sooner she rehomes the better.

I do think that her 'unreasonableness' is mitigated a bit by her taking him to training classes. She has obviously tried to do something.

Crinkle77 Wed 18-Sep-13 09:28:31

It really annoys me that people buy puppies without thinking it through properly.

Sinful1 Wed 18-Sep-13 11:02:44

If she doesn't get rid of or the DP can report it and have the dog destroyed as or has attacked a human

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