To want another baby at 41

(134 Posts)
raceorama Tue 22-Jan-13 10:19:08

I have 3 dcs and would really like a forth. My DH is not so keen though to go through the baby stage again not sure if I should try to change his mind. Anyone else in similar situation.

OnwardBound Tue 22-Jan-13 10:27:56

Marking place, hpoing for some perspective or good advice.

I am in similar situation but have two DC and am 39yo.

However DH is against the idea of a third entirely, not just apprehensive about the baby stage unfortunately... Although I am not belittling your concerns but am just very despairing that DH will ever come around to my way of thinking and I desperately want a third!

FreudiansSlipper Tue 22-Jan-13 10:31:03

i am 40 and would love another baby

but i am single. could still happen for me but this time i want to have a baby with a loving supportive partner so time is running out sad

PartTimeModel Tue 22-Jan-13 10:35:44

Surely in years gone by (pre birth control being widely available perhaps?) having a baby at 41 wasn't that unusual? If you want to and you feel you can do it, then why not?

FrenchJunebug Tue 22-Jan-13 10:35:58

I had a baby at 43, my first and I am single. It was the easiest pregnancy and my son is lovely. Go for it.

Snusmumriken Tue 22-Jan-13 10:38:50

Go for it. Most of the women in my family have had babies in their 40ties. My grandmother had her last at 41.

good luck!

McNewPants2013 Tue 22-Jan-13 10:38:50

Yanbu, I don't think 41 is too old to have a baby.

I would have a long talk with DH and if no is the answer then don't push it.

broadsheetbabe Tue 22-Jan-13 10:41:56

Go for it.

I had DS2 when I was 41 - DDs were 20 and 18 and DS1 was 16!

gallifrey Tue 22-Jan-13 10:48:19

I was 39 when I fell pregnant with dd2 and was 40 when I gave birth to her.

mum2bubble Tue 22-Jan-13 10:51:01

Age isn't really a barrier for you (yet), but don't go ahead if you DH doesn't want a fourth child. Also - bear in mind you might get more than you bargained for - twins are common in later pregnancies

WaynettaSlobsLover Tue 22-Jan-13 10:52:45

You have to weigh up the pros and cons of having a baby this late before anything. Are you (and dh) really prepared to do the sleepless nights, messy weaning, separation anxiety, nursery run all over again, as well as working and fitting the baby around any hobbies or extra curricular things your other kids do? Have you thought about the potential health risks that inevitably increase after 35 and how you would cope God forbid if baby had anything wrong with him or her? My own mum around this age had to weigh it all up, and although she really did want a baby with her new partner, she decided against it in the end because she didn't want to feel knackered all over again and didn't want to be an older mum/have to deal with a higher risk pregnancy. Up to you but make sure it's well thought out and logically thought out rather than just a 'want' if you know what I mean.

DragonMamma Tue 22-Jan-13 10:55:17

My DM had my dsis when I was in my 20s and she was mid-forties. She would never ever recommend having one 'so late in life'. She loves her but at almost 50, spending weekends at kids parties and looking for family friendly holiday resorts isn't quite what she envisaged.

I think it's the gap rather than the age though, she had her life back before she started the baby days from scratch again. Maybe she wouldn't mind so much if she hadn't sniffed freedom?

scarletforya Tue 22-Jan-13 10:58:39

I had my first at 42. I felt my age during the pregnancy I must say, but it's a small price to pay for a lovely baby.

I agree with mum2bubble, only go ahead if your DH wants it! I would find this very difficult if I was on my own!

NomNomDePlumPudding Tue 22-Jan-13 11:05:30

had dd2 at 42. took 3 months to conceive.
apparently* your fertility takes a nose dive about 9/10 years before menopause, which on average is about 52, so if you are going to try, the sooner the better, i'd say. also, you need to be prepared for possible miscarriage, i know this can happen at any stage but is more likely with later pregnancies.

*this could be a medical fact or an urban myth, i am unclear as to how i came by this piece of information

Fakebook Tue 22-Jan-13 11:09:30

I don't think YABU. If you can talk your Dh around and wouldn't mind going through the baby stage again then do it.

Cakecrumbsinmybra Tue 22-Jan-13 11:12:10

Gosh, no one can say but you - I am 37 and we are considering trying for no. 3. I really don't know if I can do it all again. For practical reasons we'd need to wait til the summer and I'll be 38. At first DH didn't seem keen, and I did not want to be the one to convince him. I felt like I didn't want another baby enough to force the situation iyswim. However, I did feel sad. After a few months of thinking about it, he seems to have come to the same conclusion: that it would be amazing, but perhaps we should leave things as they are, start to travel, etc etc. But because we are now at the same point of view, I feel we are making the decision TOGETHER and it feels like either way will be OK.

Personally, I would not want to try for a baby over 40. However, I also thought that I would not want any kids over 35, and here I am considering it grin. Good luck!

MumsKnitter Tue 22-Jan-13 11:16:18

I had my fifth at 50 (IVF) last year. My others were 20,18,16 and13. I was single, so didn't have to worry about bringing a partner round to the idea, though it helped that I had the support of my other children who all thought it was a great idea, and have been very hands on helpful siblings. I have no regrets, and although it's hard work I adore my baby and wouldn't turn the clock back. My exH hadn't wanted a fourth and threw a cushion at me when I told him I was pregnant, but once the baby arrived he was fine. I was 37. He hated the baby phase, and I felt obliged to do all the nights without help as i had accidentally on purpose got pregnant (and he did realise that). This seemed to stop him resenting things. Once past babyhood, he was delighted with his son. Even though we did split 9 years later, this was unconnected with me having a fourth (it was my choice to end the marriage), and he remains close to his youngest who stays with him every weekend. I was lucky not to ruin our marriage. Having a child without my partner's permission was wrong of me, but it all worked out fine, and I have absolutely no regrets about doing it. I know of other women who have had "accidental" babies and it has sometimes been fine and other times ended badly. You really need to know your man.

howtoboilanegg Tue 22-Jan-13 11:52:19

Go for it!
I got pregnant with my fourth at 41 and had him whenI was 42. I can honestly say I have never regretted it for a single second. He is the most gorgeous child. I enjoyed every minute of his babyhood knowing he was the last...he is now 8! The others are now 11, 13 and 14.

I didn't find the late pregnancy physically tiring, or afterwards. In fact I am fitter and healthier now than I was in my thirties when I was stressed, working endlessly, eating badly and probably drinking too much.
What is harder with four DC is keeping across their lives, the constant feeding, washing etc and the expense. Also my DH and I don't get much time with each other as we had as there is always something in the way whilst the fourth DC is wonderful, it can take a toll on other areas.

imip Tue 22-Jan-13 12:21:01

Op, I had my 4th dc at 40. I figure if you really want a baby, you may as well go for it. Dh wasn't all that keen, dd3 was13 months when we started trying. I gave it a time limits but luckily fell straight away. I probably would have found it hard to stop at the time limit we imposed, but luckily we didn't have to face that. How old area your other dcs? I must say it is bloody bloody hard work, but then my 4dds are six and under. I think if your keen to go through the sleepless nights etc, then go for it! I'm finished!

FreudianLisp Tue 22-Jan-13 12:42:34

I'm 40 and desperately broody for a third. Husband says no way, even though we've got an embie on ice at the fertility clinic. I soooooooooo want another baby.

No words of wisdom, though.

An ex-colleague of mine has just retired now that he and is wife are both 60. His wife has just given birth to their first child. Yes, you did read that right. And they're apparently wondering whether they've done the right thing.

eggsy11 Tue 22-Jan-13 12:50:51

My mum was 28 when she had me, pretty much average amongst my friends (born early 90's). My friends mum had him when she was 45, constant 'help the aged' jokes the whole way through high school.

I'm now a mum at 22. I've got a degree and a career, just happened to have a baby young. When I was on mat leave at baby groups, it was so obvious who the older mums were. They never ran round on the play equipment at soft play like me and DP did, and always were so much more tired all the time.

I personally think being a youngish mum is much better. We can afford to send our son to private school in a few years when he's old enough and financially stable. we are young enough to be able to relate to his issues (I often help with conflicts with my teenage cousins and their mum as she finds it hard to understand why having new trainers is sooo important, and they find it hard to understand how much they cost). I think we have the best of both worlds and I wouldn't have a child past 35.

eggsy11 Tue 22-Jan-13 12:52:09

Wow Freudian they are 60 and they've had a baby??? It is very likely they won't live past 75, making it a max of the age of 15 before he's an orphan. That is shockingly selfish!!!!!!

Beamur Tue 22-Jan-13 12:52:36

Wow - a baby at 60!
I'm 42 and still hanker for another little one, but DP is dead set against it,we've talked about it quite lot over the last 5 years (DD is 5) but he hasn't shifted an inch. His only concession was to consider it if it was making me really miserable, but that seemed such a negative reason and I could tell he really didn't want another baby - he has 2 older children too.
I've been very unhappy, angry, resentful at times of my DSC, but am coming to a certain peace about it. DP is older than me (he's 50) and he feels it's too old for him to be doing it again, as DD is a bit older we are both able to do more in our spare time and a baby would take up so much of that spare time again. I get where DP is coming from on this as his interest is one that requires fitness and time and may be curtailed as he gets older.
If he suddenly changed his mind, I think I'd put my concerns about health/miscarriage etc to one side, but I think it would be an anxious pregnancy.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 22-Jan-13 12:55:08

How old is your youngest, OP? Are they about to start school? Think there is often a pull to have another to fill the gap. Say you conceive right away, tomorrow - still have years ahead of you repeating what you've just had with 3 DCs, are you sure you want to stay in that cycle of having such a tiny dependent infant? It is deferring saying goodbye to babyhood and yet you are always a mum no matter how big your DCs grow.

If you want a 4th, you can't help how you feel. If you are healthy and have financial security and room for another child, if the older DCs won't go without, that sounds a fair reason to talk to DH about it. But if he says no he's not wanting a 4th and is every other way being a good husband and father, I really think you have to respect that. Just my opinion, I hope you work things out.

PS I toyed with the idea of a 3rd but we both weighed it up and decided against. Just before getting peri menopausal I felt a passing regret but it was right for us all. If I had felt passionately about a 3rd I would have obsessed and pushed but at what cost to our marriage, I can't say.

Pigsmummy Tue 22-Jan-13 13:50:30

I hope to have my 2nd when I am 40, I just turned 38 and have a 3 month old. Plan to ttc 2nd from next birthday. I think that 40 isnt old, will a 4th change the dynamics of the family? Finances? Childcare etc if so then you need to consider everything carefully, live a couple of days imagining a forth child around.

FreudianLisp Tue 22-Jan-13 14:17:12

Eggsy, we're not all over the hill at 40! Maybe your friends just had babies who didn't sleep, and that's why they were knackered. I wouldn't leap all over soft play equipment either (and I can't imagine ever going to a soft play place at all) but it's got nothing to do with my age!

Piggychunk Tue 22-Jan-13 14:22:25

I have had children ant 17, 24, 27 and at no stage could I be arsed to jump on the softplay equipment, I'm not sure that's an age thing

carmenelectra Tue 22-Jan-13 14:25:11

I am 42 and have 3 ds's. Baby number 4 is almost certainly on the radar for me.

I always wanted 4 but then after (intentionally) leaving a big gap I kind of decided 3ed would be my last as I wanted to stop by 40. Then of course I had dc3 and the feeling of wanting another child didn't go away. The idea had been on the backburner.

I feel really mixed, in the sense that I'm not overjoyed at doing it all again but also sad at the thought of not doing it. I am the kibnd of person that would regret not having another when the time has passed. Also, I'm very much a believer of the idea that you never regret having a child. No matter how hard it is.

My dp is happy with what we have doesn't really want another but he also knows how I feel and would agree reluctantly!

I don't relish the stress and the expense(though its as expensive as you make it) and I could not give up work or even cut my hours. However, I've managed so far I guess.

I would say definitely go for it if you dh agrees. In my case I need to decide within the year I think.

WileyRoadRunner Tue 22-Jan-13 14:31:13

* When I was on mat leave at baby groups, it was so obvious who the older mums were. They never ran round on the play equipment at soft play like me and DP did, and always were so much more tired all the time.*

Oh dear that did make me snort ^

40 is not too old to have a baby. If it is what you want and your DH is with you then go for it.

I am 32 and desperately want to go for DC3 but my husband is not keen at all. I think finances would be stretched and we only have 3 bedrooms and my DH says they cannot share as not fair on older ones. I find the thought of no more so upsetting but am hoping the broodiness will pass.

scampadoodle Tue 22-Jan-13 14:34:30

How fabulous for you eggsy that you managed to find someone to settle down with so young. Not all of us are so lucky. I was more or less single going out with f***wits til I was 32. Had kids at 36 & 40.

carmenelectra Tue 22-Jan-13 14:38:35

As for older mums not running around, that's hilarious!

Some young parents are lazy snobs.

I am soo active. As well as working almost full time. I do loads with kids. Park as often as poss, library taking them softplay. Indoor activities.
Sorry I meant lazy slobs lol
That's rubbish. My dp is the same and he is even oldersmile

jellybeans Tue 22-Jan-13 14:43:52

'* When I was on mat leave at baby groups, it was so obvious who the older mums were. They never ran round on the play equipment at soft play like me and DP did, and always were so much more tired all the time.*'

Don't agree with this. BUT (embarrassingly) I was a teen mum with my DD1 and my friend and I used to think mums over 30 were ancient! However I have now had children in my teens, 20s and 30s! I can also confirm that I have ran about at playgroups etc just as much at early-mid 30s than in my 20s! You can get lazy and unfit mums at any age.

Bue Tue 22-Jan-13 14:46:04

Gosh, I'm nearly 33 and haven't even started yet. Perhaps I ought not to bother. I am liable to be so exhausted all the time due to my extreme agedness that I'll end up doing my back in at the soft play!

ExpatAl Tue 22-Jan-13 14:53:51

Eggsy seriously? All the young parents were running around interacting enthusisastically and athletically with their little ones but the 40 year old mums were sitting, having a little nap? Your post is hilarious! Good parents are good parents. I don't think having one at 60 is a great idea <yikes> but early 40s isn't exactly over the hill.

Eggsy, hilarious! yet somehow patronising and offensive. 42 with a four year old (and 18yo) and am tempted for one last one.

NymphadoraTonks Tue 22-Jan-13 15:18:57

My Mum had me when she was 40 and my little sister when she was 44, so as someone who grew up with older parents I would say I see no issue with it. I do think that id your husband really doesn't want to though you should respect that. Its his decision too.

For me it would be my worst nightmare.
Hitting late 50's still having a teenager to worry about when I should be holidaying around the world - no thanks very much.
Really! 60 with a teenager - no way Jose!
But, there are plenty of 'older' parents out there and if it's what you BOTH want and agree on, then there's nothing wrong with it at all.
Don't just do it though - your husband has to be on board too, and willingly so!

WaynettaSlobsLover Tue 22-Jan-13 15:31:30

Eggsy....not sure firstly why you mention having a degree.. hmm but your post IMO was pretty thoughtless and a total generalisation. I had my first dc in my teens and was absolutely knackered. I am now 23 and expecting my third...not as knackered as last time but still pretty knackered. I don't enjoy jumping on soft play either. If I was someone sitting here who hadnt met their dh until they were late thirties, had a bit of trouble conceiving and then had a baby around 40, I would be very unimpressed at your comments.

crikeybill Tue 22-Jan-13 15:39:50

I had DC3 at 38. It was my hardest pg I won't lie. He's now nearly 2 and I'm nearly 40. I'm not over the hill and I do jump and play thank you eggsy ...
......however as a pp said it has dawned on us lately that we won't be child free till were over 60!!!!! So although I'm fine NOW it has come into my mind recently that Dh and I won't be able to do as we please for quite a while longer sad

Its that that I would consider now.

GeorginaWorsley Tue 22-Jan-13 15:39:51

Had dc4 at 38,DH 40.
Seven year gap between DC4 and DC3,16 yrs between DC1 and DC4 with DC2 10 years ifyswim.
I always wanted 4,DH not so keen.
In some ways it has been hard,more to do with the gaps than our age though.
Feel like school run gone on for ever,plus swimming lessons etc.
Having said that I would not have felt our family was complete without DC4.

TheCatInTheHairnet Tue 22-Jan-13 15:47:58

I don't think your age is an issue. But your DH being dead against it IS an issue. Personally, I think women who get pg "accidentally on purpose," in the hope that their DH will eventually come round to the idea, are thoughtless and pretty selfish.

EmpressMaud Tue 22-Jan-13 15:54:32

Cripes, Eggsy. Offensive much!

crikeybill Tue 22-Jan-13 15:55:27

Oh and having an accidental baby is wrong for everyone involved, including the baby.
What a stupid idea !!!

Fluffy1234 Tue 22-Jan-13 16:03:16

I had Ds1 In my teens, ds2 in my 20's and ds3 in my 30's and I was knackered with all of them!

OP does NOT mention having an accidental baby BTW!!!!
Just maybe talking her DH round.
I may have put that in peoples heads but it's not what was said at all!!!

crikeybill Tue 22-Jan-13 16:11:53

No op doesn't suggest having an accidental baby but mumsknitter did and it was her I was addressing.

Such a ridiculous and wrong idea.

41 isn't old, and despite the rather patronising comment earlier in the thread by a mum in her 20s, people in their 40s are perfectly able and willing to run round and play with their kids. I know plenty of lazy arse 20 odd year olds who never move a muscle, so her experience is down to the people she knows not their age.

I'm 40 and due DC1 in the next few weeks. It has been an incredibly easy pregnancy, and I am still going to the gym, walking for up to two hours at a time, and very fit. I've had the scans and my baby is perfect. Older does not automatically mean genetic abnormalities etc. The risk goes up, but it is still only a tiny percentage. If all goes well with the birth I will be planning dc2 asap afterwards.

Astley Tue 22-Jan-13 16:54:47

I would do it. There is nothing like regret. The older 3 will help out too.

raceorama Tue 22-Jan-13 18:36:16

Hi everyone thanks for your replies there is so much to consider one minute you think yeah why not go for it and then you think of different reasons why it might not be a great idea to go ahead I think that's why DH isn't 100% keen because he thinks of the "bigger picture" as he calls it whereas I'm probably just extremely broody. My dcs are 8, 6 & 4 so used to a night or two of disrupted sleep and used to never getting a lie in.
I'm healthy (touch wood) and am able to run around with the kids no bother I would just be concerned about feeling really tired during pregnancy (if it happened).

eggsy11 Tue 22-Jan-13 20:58:58

I didn't mean to offend anyone! I said it generally, because this is an internet forum, I don't know this woman. Therefore i'm saying based on what I know.

I said I have a degree because i've had a lot of critisism in the past for being a young mum. One of the biggest things I have said to me is that having children before you've lived yourself or had time alone with your partner is the biggest mistake. Me and DP have been together for 3 years pre-DS and it is just as much fun living our lives and tackling new challenges whilst having a child, you can achieve stuff and have a baby.

OP asked for opinions. I said I think 40+ is too old. Because of lack of energy and not being as in touch with your children as a young parent would be. I don't see how any of that is offensive?

ExpatAl Tue 22-Jan-13 21:04:58

It was offensive because you made a huge amount of sweeping statements and you've just made them again.

expatinscotland Tue 22-Jan-13 21:08:55

My grandmother first had a baby at 16. But she was widowed at 18 and her little girl died. She ws absolutely devestated and did not remarry until she was in her mid-30s. She went on to have 4 futher children, the youngest when she was 41, and then a bonus - surprise!- baby at 47!

Go for it!

Annunziata Tue 22-Jan-13 21:11:00

My mum had two babies in her forties (myself included!)

Talk to your DH. Once you have three you can cope with four!

Oh eggsy you don't have a clue, I and many of my older friend moms have tons of energy, we run rings around those 20 something moms.
I have some Mom friends who are in their early 30's and they were shocked when I said how old I was, they thought I was a lot younger.
I have three age 24, 18 and 8 I am 50.
Both my grandmothers had babies at 40. If you want to do it, go for it.
Our Dd is the best thing we ever did. She's a little minx some days but an absolute joy.

expatinscotland Tue 22-Jan-13 21:19:57

'I think we have the best of both worlds and I wouldn't have a child past 35.'

I thought that, too, when I was 22. Never said it, though, because even then I realised it was just my personal opinion.

I had our son, our 3rd, at 37. Dh had a vasectomy and last year, we lost our eldest child to cancer.

We're still okay with that decision, but if we won the lottery we'd have that reversed and try to have another.

So selfish of us. We're halfway towards the grave!

Incidentally, my gran who had a baby at 47 lived to be 92 and her husband, who was the same age, lived to be 90.

expatinscotland Tue 22-Jan-13 21:29:49

' Because of lack of energy and not being as in touch with your children as a young parent would be.'

Snort! My teenage nieces come to me more often than their mum (she knows) because I lead a colourful life before finally meeting a man to marry and have children with (I was shock 32 when I first was born) whereas their mum got married out of university and had them. Apparently, I can 'relate' more. I felt the same about my aunt, who was married 5 times and had one child when she was so old she was in her mid-30s! I felt I could talk to her and she would be, here's the irony for you, eggsy, so judgemental.

balia Tue 22-Jan-13 21:31:03

Think the age thing is a bit of a red herring in many ways; the OP says she is healthy, active etc. I'm just a bit shock at all the 'Go for it' posts regardless of what she has said about her DH.

DH and I had our (miracle) youngest when we were 38 (lots of m/c's) and I know he would LOVE another DC. But I don't, and I would HATE it if he put pressure on me or was told to just 'go for it' as if I didn't exist or my feelings counted for nothing.

Expat, so sorry for your loss.

expatinscotland Tue 22-Jan-13 21:32:07

I think it's assumed she won't go for it untill her husband's on board.

44SoStartingOver Tue 22-Jan-13 21:41:29

We have recently been discussing this.

Dh would like another (he is 51) I am younger (not 44!) and I just can't say yes.

I have a friend who is at 43 and seems pleased but knackered.

We also have a bereavement of a family member leaving young children.

I think babies at any age are scary, but don't think I could cope with a baby with problems. I feel we should be grateful and content.

But you are yearning. Hard for you.

howtoboilanegg Tue 22-Jan-13 21:53:43

Eggsy ask how your remarks are offensive. They are offensive because they are sweeping and untrue in how they apply to many of the people posting here.
You say 'lack of energy' of older parents. Lots of MNet have said lack of energy does not apply to them in their forties.
You say ' older parents are more out of touch with your child than a younger parent'. It may be in your sister's case, but not necessarily for others, and I certainly don't think it in my own case.
My own mother was 23 when she had me, and frankly she hadn't a clue about children growing up. You cannot generalise, and the fact that you do, shows you really don't understand.

Actually Eggsy you have no clue. At the ripe old age of 40 I can (well not whilst pregnant obviously) run 10km without breaking a sweat and have loads of energy. I'm not alone in that... the fittest women in my gym are in their 40s. As for being out of touch with kids, well I reckon that at 40 I have a lot more life experience, am probably calmer and less controlling than many younger mums. I've learnt so much about how not to do things through my own mistakes and those of others. I may not be a perfect mum, but I'll be every bit as good and probably better than someone younger who has a bit of growing up to do, a lot to learn about life, and the pressure of starting out in a career and finding financial stability. I've done all that.

Swings and roundabouts.

But back to the OP, I agree with those who have pointed out that both partners need to want a child to make having one a good idea.

JaneFonda Tue 22-Jan-13 22:12:18

I think YAB a bit U, but it's not really for any of us to judge.

It genuinely surprises me on here how many MNetters are so in favour of having another child in your 40s.

Perhaps a little bit more understandable if it were to be your first child, but I think it is quite selfish.

If your DH isn't keen, that is a major issue. You would also need to think about the impact on your DCs, and not only your own health, but your potential baby's health.

It does shock me how many people here are so willing to ignore the risks and are incredibly encouraging; having another baby is not like buying a pair of shoes, you shouldn't do it 'just in case' you regret not doing it in the future.

ExpatAl Tue 22-Jan-13 22:18:44

How incredibly patronising Janefonda

eggsy11 Tue 22-Jan-13 22:19:25

yes because women in their 40's have more energy than those in their 20's hmm

obviously its a general statement. There are cases and lots of 40 year olds may be fit, but younger people GENERALLY have more energy. How can anyone deny that?

No's one mentioned my friend having the mick taken and the 'help the aged' jokes he got about his mum.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Tue 22-Jan-13 22:23:48

My mum had my sister at 41, me and my siblings were, 21 19 and 16 at the time.

fluffypillow Tue 22-Jan-13 22:27:45

I don't think 41 is too old. If both you and your DH can agree it's the right thing for your family, then go for it.

I had my sons when I was 24 and 28, and my Daughter when I was 37. I have loved the baby/toddler stage with all of them, and I certainly don't regret having a little one a bit later in life.

I always wanted a third, but never really told my DH in so many words (probably too scared he would say no!). I think he guessed how I felt though, and one day just before christmas 2009 he said ' perhaps we'll have a little one in the house this time next year?! Our DD was born 10 days after christmas the following year smile.

I knew I would never regret having a third, but would always regret not going for it. That's it for me though, I don't feel the need for a fourth!

Good luck with what ever you decide.

MrsDeVere Tue 22-Jan-13 22:29:00

Oh eggsy bless you.

You think you are going to be 'in touch' with your teenager just because you had your DC young?

A ha ha ha ha HA.

Don't be silly. You will be OLD, you will be ANCIENT to your teens and while you think you are dahn wit de kidz they will think you are a huge embarrassment.
Such is life mate, whatever your age.

I am 45 and have five children. I was 25, 27, 36, 40 & 43 when I had them.
I did a 10k last year in just over an hour. I work and care for a disabled child and my disabled husband as well as care for a 5 and 2 year old.

You want to chat about energy?

I was on the floor with two toddlers today playing and observing and recording at the same time.

Not bad for a poor old trout eh?

You do not sound half as mature as you think you do.

JoInScotland Tue 22-Jan-13 22:29:13

eggsy11 My mum had her first at 16, and I (number 7) was born when she was 35 and 3 months old. I'm glad she didn't have a "no children after age 35" rule! Also, I didn't meet DP until I was 35, so I didn't have DS until I was 37. And I always run round on the soft play equipment and the playground equipment, and DP often remarks "I wonder who the bigger kid is - you or DS"

Not all older mums are tired or boring.

MrsDeVere Tue 22-Jan-13 22:31:32

You know what amazes me JaneFonda?
How many MNrs blithely bang on about 'risks' in that vague way
When what they really want to say is 'YOU MIGHT GIVE BIRTH TO A DISABLED BABY!!!!!'


Not only does it amaze me, it pisses me off.

ExpatAl Tue 22-Jan-13 22:32:13

That was then eggsy. This was the boys particular insult but what were the insults given to the other kids? I hear far crueller taunts than that. And it's parents, not just the mother.
Younger people might be fitter, but whether or not they want to expend their energy is a different matter. Same for older parents. I see plenty of fat young mothers puffing on their fags and completely ignoring their kids. Older ones too.
40 isn't so ancient that you're out of touch ffs. Anyway, kids get to a certain age and no parent is in touch. It's not appreciated.

Sabriel Tue 22-Jan-13 22:35:12

Well I had my first child at 22, and my 5th at 43. Sorry to burst your bubble Eggsy but although you may be 'in touch' with the issues of young people now, by the time your child is 13 I can guarantee you won't be. All DC1's friends thought it was great her parents were so young - she thought we were dinosaurs.

I don't recommend starting again after the children have grown up, simply because you've been used to living as a normal adult and suddenly you are frustrated by a small child again. Tho OP that isn't your case because your others are still young. Mine were 15+ when the youngest arrived.

fluffypillow Tue 22-Jan-13 22:37:30

Oh poor eggsy

You have sooooooo much to learn (especially about teenagers Ha Ha HA) grin

expatinscotland Tue 22-Jan-13 22:38:40

Hey, all you fellow fossils out there, remember when you thought 40 was old?! grin

fluffypillow Tue 22-Jan-13 22:39:42

I remember when I thought 25 was old grin

ExpatAl Tue 22-Jan-13 22:43:54

Oh so old. End of life old.

expatinscotland Tue 22-Jan-13 22:45:51

Tonight, I found out the celeb I use to love as a teen - way back in the times of horses and buggies - is 62 [keens into shawl].

ExpatAl Tue 22-Jan-13 23:02:33

There, there, love. Does cocoa make you too excitable? Shall I make just a nice cup of hot milk for you?

JaneFonda Tue 22-Jan-13 23:05:43

ExpatAl - in what way was I patronising?

MrsDeVere - Actually, yes, I do think it is selfish to risk having a baby with severe health issues just because someone fancies a fourth child.

expatinscotland Tue 22-Jan-13 23:11:31

'Actually, yes, I do think it is selfish to risk having a baby with severe health issues just because someone fancies a fourth child.'

As far as I can recall, the only health condition associated directly with advanced maternal age is Down's Syndrome, which some people don't consider a 'severe health issue' and which, of course, can occur in babies born to mothers of any age.

MrsDeVere Tue 22-Jan-13 23:11:45

Oh please.

Where are the stat on severe health issues?

Are you simply including all possible conditions?

Selfish to give birth to a non perfect baby. Nice.

My only disabled child is the product of a 17 year old's pregnancy.

carmenelectra Tue 22-Jan-13 23:17:11

Omg eggsy. Over 40 is out of touch!

Jesus. I'm as so not out of touch! No different in a lot of ways to how I was when I was 20. I certainly am not some frumpy 40 plus who hasn't got a clue, dresses like a granny and is an embarrassment. Talk about old stereotyping!

fourfingerkitkat Tue 22-Jan-13 23:19:32

eggsy11 - Appreciate that this is your experience of older mums but I would have to disagree. My friend and I (both 38 now but 34 when we had our kids) met up every Monday until a few weeks ago at the local soft play. We would be running around, up and down the shoot and playing with the kids. I often looked up to see a "younger Mum" glued to her Iphone checking FB or flicking through the pages of Closer....Maybe a stereotype but point I'm making is there are pros and cons to being a younger or older Mum...

ExpatAl Tue 22-Jan-13 23:20:20

JaneFonda because you spoke as if older parents weren't aware of these issues and hadn't given them some thought. It is by no means a given that older parents will have a disabled child or a child with severe health issues. And there are all kinds of disability. You're being quite offensive.

fourfingerkitkat Tue 22-Jan-13 23:23:18

Oh, and I would absolutely love a 3rd child though it would be completely selfish and irresponsible given that we are financially pulling into shit street as we speak....Also DH has concerns about our age and any associated risks.

carmenelectra Tue 22-Jan-13 23:26:14

There are age related risks. From 35 onwards is the greater risks. I will add, I had two dc's over 35.

Risks as having a disabled child being downs syndrome. Imo. Absolutely not the worst thing that could happen, trust me. I work in maternity and I can say this is true from point of view.

Going back to those worrying about having a baby in 40's and thinking how many yrs it will be before you are 'childfree' again, well that's one downside for me. Even if I don't have another baby I won't have time to myself till at least late 50's. And I'd love time with dp, just the 2 of us! However, I agree with the poster who said its hard to live with regrets too.

expatinscotland Tue 22-Jan-13 23:32:30

There are also risks that come with being obese, no matter what your age.

MrsDeVere Tue 22-Jan-13 23:33:24

There are risks with any pregnancy at any age.
Given that screening is generally only offered to a.older women and b. for common/easily screened for conditions it could be argued that
the risk of having a disabled child is higher if you are younger.

I work with disabled childrend 0-4 and the majority of parents I work with are under 35.

And it IS offensive because not everyone thinks that giving birth to a disabled child is a.selfish or b. a disaster.

Also - disabled does not always = medical issue.

Ignorance dressed up as knowledge hmm

olgaga Tue 22-Jan-13 23:34:49

Well I was almost 41 when I had my first - and only. Menopause at 44 did it for me, but I never felt particularly keen on another, I had terrible PND. If you can afford it, and you want to, why not? But do you really want to be struggling with two early teens in your fifties? One is bad enough IMO...

I wouldn't if your DH isn't keen. Logistically, can you afford it?

VelvetSpoon Tue 22-Jan-13 23:35:27

i'll be 41 in May. I have 2 DC aged 14 and 11 but always wanted a 3rd child.

However after 2 accidental pregnancies, the first where I wasn't even really 'with' with the father, and the second with someone I had only been dating a matter of weeks (which then turned into a nightmare 7 years of verbal emotional and physical abuse) I decided years ago that I wouldn't have another unless I was in a happy relationship. And I have been single not for the want of trying for 5 years. So I really dont think it will happen for me. Not the end of the world, but a bit of a shame...

fourfingerkitkat Tue 22-Jan-13 23:35:44

MrsDeVere Just read your earlier post and apologise if my comment about "associated risks" pissed you off. I was being lazy and should have explained that by that I was meaning miscarriage and Downs Syndrome (which I understand is more common among older mothers, at least this is what I was told when pregnant with DD).

It would be tough, I can only imagine how tough it would be, but I can think of far many things tougher than having a Downs Syndrome child. Unfortunately my OH does not feel the same and this is one of the reasons why he would not want another child. He has said that having had 2 healthy babies he would not want to take the risk.

What about those of us who were out of touch with the kidz when we were kidz? Even if I'd had mine before I was 20 I still would have been buggered grin

fourfingerkitkat Tue 22-Jan-13 23:40:00

Gwendoline Yes !!! that was me. I was a complete anorak at eggsy would probably say I'm fucked !!!

MrsDeVere Tue 22-Jan-13 23:43:50

I wasnt responding to your post.
But there are always dark mutterings on these threads about 'risks'.

It is absolutely someone's choice if they think the risk of having a disabled child is too much for them.
I get pissed off when people decided the risks are too high for me or anyone else. Assuming that everyone would be horrified at the very idea of disability offends me. Being called selfish for even risking giving birth to a disabled child pisses me off.

I understand about the miscarriage aspect and why a woman wouldn't want to put themselves through that. But as I had my mc when i was 26 I didn't see my age later on as an extra risk. MC is a pretty high risk with every conception.

But it is for the woman to decide for themselves.

expatinscotland Tue 22-Jan-13 23:46:24

Applauds MrsDeVere.

Busyoldfool Tue 22-Jan-13 23:49:19

In suppoort of Eggsy who has been given a hard time here; she is just saying what she thinks - she is entitled to that and she hasn't been offensive. I probably thought that when I was in my twenties. I had my DCs at 38 and 43 and I was full of energy and fit and "in touch with the world". I am the first to admit that it is harder now. I am in my 50's and have health problems and yes, less energy. And my son does get teased about his old mum and dad, (even older than me), I'm afraid so what she said isn't entirely baseless but it certaoinly doesn't apply accross the board.

fourfingerkitkat Tue 22-Jan-13 23:49:35

MrsDeVere understand completey where you are coming from here but do you honestly think that having a first child at 60 (think someone used this as an example earlier on) is a responsible thing to do ?

williaminajetfighter Wed 23-Jan-13 00:01:15

Go for it OP. I had my first at 36 and now trying for a second at 43. And I don't feel that old.

As for risks, the big risk/complication you're likely to face is just a higher chance of miscarriage due to the age of your eggs, but such is life.

The joys of having a child far outstrip the work and I don't think it's something you'd ever regret. As you already have 3 kids I figure you have quite a bit of energy and one more should be a doodle.

Can I say that having a teenager at 60 will not be a big deal in future when we are all living into our 90s...

Annakin31 Wed 23-Jan-13 00:03:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Annakin31 Wed 23-Jan-13 00:07:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

orlakielylover Wed 23-Jan-13 00:30:48

don't so much need one biscuit as the whole packet.

<Hoiks matronly bosom>

expatinscotland Wed 23-Jan-13 08:52:27

'MrsDeVere understand completey where you are coming from here but do you honestly think that having a first child at 60 (think someone used this as an example earlier on) is a responsible thing to do ?'

That person is post-menopausal. That's an entirely different ballgame from what is being discussed here.

mynameisnowsonicthehedgehog Wed 23-Jan-13 10:23:55

Some of us don't have the luxury of deciding when we have children, I didn't meet my husband until I was 33. As it turned out I had fertility issues and we spent the next 10 years enduring IVF. We were extremely fortunate on our 7th cycle, and our twin sons were born when I was 43. I certainly don't have any problems keeping up with them and feel I have much more energy than when I doing my highly demanding 60 hours a week career. Let me say also that I spent most of my 20's and 30's travelling and living life for me so feel I can concentrate purely on my sons now without any feeling of missing out on anything I might want out of life.

I had a fantastic pregnancy, went to 38 weeks and boys were born well and healthy weights needing no support. In the hospital there were 3 other sets of twins born, to much younger mums, all born before 32 weeks. Sue the risks increase with age, but this isn't a given.

We can all make sweeping statments about older/younger mums, but just remember that very few of us live text book lives.

MrsDeVere Wed 23-Jan-13 10:30:16

Exactly. 60 is not 40!

No more than 15 is 35.

That us a different discussion.

Ttc at 40 is no more a selfish and irresponsible act than ttc at 25.

It is the disgust and terror of disability that drives the disapproval.
How else can we explain women telling other women 'don't do it' because there is a minuscule statistical risk of giving birth to a child with any disability ?

Better no child than a disabled child.

It is for each woman to decide if she thinks the risk is worth it. Just as it is for each woman to decide if they can continue with a pregnancy when abnormality is detected.
No judgement from me.

But society freely judges women who dare to take the chance of producing defective offspring. Whist conveniently ignoring the fact that disability can happen to anyone.

Yes it bloody pisses me off.

WadingThroughTreacle Wed 23-Jan-13 10:53:38

Lol sometimes I see over enthusiastic parents running round soft play areas and wonder if they want to be a toddler, not have one,lol though nothing wrong with that I guess. Most kids are perfectly capable of running around with their little friends, as long as mum or dad are watching, from about age 3. Kids just need nice, loving parents. There are energetic people and lethargic ones, age doesn't really come into it. To be fair, risks of disability prob are a bit higher over 40 so maybe depends on how much support you have available. Said as a 42 yr old with a 5 yr old, prob ASD, child.

carmenelectra Wed 23-Jan-13 11:49:17

Most of the women I see who have problem pregnancies it is due to obesity. Mainly gestational diabetes.

Age alone isn't usually a problem for women who have had babies before. Although these women are still classed as high risk.

As I said previously, Downs, which is what most consider the biggest risk in older mothers is not the worst that could happen in my opinion. And I have only really seen a handful of Downs babies born and then not necessarily to women over 40. I have seen more stillbirths from uncontrolled diabetes.

IfNotNowThenWhen Wed 23-Jan-13 12:45:44

Women have always had babies into their 40's. It's not new. My Nan was 38 with her first! And she lived to 90 with no health problems.
I have much more energy now in my 30's than I had in my early twenties, am am much much more active, so it's a very individual thing.
The issue OP, is that if your DH really doesn't want to, it would be a mistake. You have to both want it.

Peevish Wed 23-Jan-13 13:51:23

I was almost 40 when I had my only child - I had a lovely, straightforward pregnancy and a healthy and completely fabulous baby, now nine months. It's not a competition, but all the other women in my NCT group were much younger (late twenties and early 30s), and I think I had the easiest time of the lot.

I do think about the risks, and the career issues, but have not entirely ruled out having another baby.

ExpatAl Wed 23-Jan-13 13:58:33

Uncontrolled diabetes is a different ballgame to GD that is controlled, especially by exercise and diet changes.

ExpatAl Wed 23-Jan-13 14:10:06

I pressed too soon but can't remember what I was going to say. Nobody mentioned the risk of early onset dementia!

jellybeans Wed 23-Jan-13 19:38:56

' I think 40+ is too old. Because of lack of energy and not being as in touch with your children as a young parent would be. I don't see how any of that is offensive?'

How do you know, you have never been a 40 year old parent.

I was a teen mum with DD1, she is now 16. We are close but I am still ancient in her eyes and I am far far younger than her friend's parents who are the same age as my parents. All over 30s (or late 20s even) are ancient to them! So you won't necessarily be closer because you are younger!

As far the abnormalities,sadly I had a baby with a fatal chromosome disorder and I was early 20s so it isn't always older mums who have the problem pregnancies.

I say have a baby when it is right for you but don't slate other's choices!

quickdowntonson Wed 23-Jan-13 20:20:43

I am also 41, with 2 DC's aged 14 and 15, so we had them in our mid 20's. Although I enjoyed the baby/toddler stage, looking back it was hard going at times. My DH was a junior doctor, working 100 hours per week, and financially things were tight (junior got paid a lot less then!). I would love to have another baby now, and I've finally persuaded DH to agree! We are more financially secure, are both very fit and healthy, regularly drag the kids up mountains/ long bike rides etc, and we can offer a child a secure, happy home life. We also have a better perspective I think- tend to stress a lot less about stuff that doesn't matter (which is actually most stuff!!). So, I would say go for it if it's what you both want! I'll let you know when I get my BFP!! Xx

MrsJollyPostman Wed 23-Jan-13 20:34:21

I think a lot of it depends on the ages of your children. If they are teens or older do you want to be doing kids parties when your 50 instead of holidays, breaks, treating yourself. If your children are young and you will be doing "the kid thing" anyway then that is obviously less of an issue.
My friends parents had her at 43. She didn't mind so much when she was young except she did say there was an obvious difference between her parents and her friends parents although her parents didn't seem to notice ( according to her) this is obviously less of an issue nowadays due to a lot more people having babies later.
Now her parents are in their seventies she really struggles, she finds it more difficult to converse with them as they are getting more confused and she is very envious of friends who don't need to worry about their parents in that way yet.
Her parents are love,y and she did have a great childhood, but I do think you need to think longer term than just managing with the baby stage.
On the other hand my auntie had her first at 41, she is a fantastic mum! (Just so you don't think I am anti-slightly older mothers)

cerealqueen Wed 23-Jan-13 20:49:05

41 isn't too old. I had my 1st at 40, 2nd at 43. I would LOVE another, so so much, even a fourth but we can't afford it, and I think I am a bit too old now. If I had started 10 years ago and space and money were not issues...... I cry thinking about it.

Anyway, what you need to think about is the logistics of having another child, space, money, etc. As for feeling tired well yes, you may well be very tired but you and the family work together to lessen the burden. All your children will be at school so you can devote all that time to the baby. Sounds great to me. I bet your other children will love it too. Have you discussed it with them?

thesnootyfox Wed 23-Jan-13 21:14:29

My Nan had 8 children, she had her first at 21 and her eighth at 45. I think having children in later life keeps you young (in attitude).

ExpatAl Wed 23-Jan-13 21:25:30

A confused parent is hard for a child of any age to deal with. A 'child' in their 30s is self sufficient. I will be doing kids parties at 50 AND going on breaks and treating myself. We're in a position now that we can do that. I don't mean to be flippant - I would have been gladly skint and a mother of 3 or 4 years ago but it didn't happen for us. The upside is that we have an enormous amount to share and I'm not at all sure I'd have been a nice mum when younger. The OP though, has dc already so this baby would have siblings.This one would just be tagged on the end. I don't think it's an issue at all.

harassedandherbug Wed 23-Jan-13 21:32:40

I have 4 dc, their ages are 23, 21, 6 and just turned 1. I was 18 when I had dc1 and 41 when I had dc4 and I was exhausted with all of them!

I had two mc's before dc4 which could have been my age or just unlucky. Otherwise no problems with them or me. I have 3 grandchildren, 2 are younger than dc4.

Dh and I chose not to have Downs testing, and dc's 3 & 4 are unaffected. However my 7mth old grandson has Downs. It was undiagnosed and his parents were 20 & 21 when he was born.

MrsJollyPostman Wed 23-Jan-13 21:41:16

ExpatAl it is all very well saying you will be doing things with kids and going on breaks/getting time to yourself in your fifties, but surely one issue is that there are less people who are willing and/or able to help? I know that in mine and my husbands situation when we are 50 our parents will be in their 70s and 80s and our siblings will have grown up kids and will be unlikely to want to look after kids for us then. However, I accept this is less of an issue if you had your 20s and 30s doing your own thing. Spending 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s raising children frankly seems like a terrifying prospect to me blush
But as I said, if the Op has young children anyway (couldn't find a post saying how old her kids are) then it is obviously less of an issue.

ExpatAl Wed 23-Jan-13 21:46:06

I find it an odd thing to focus on. I have done nothing but treat myself. Now our treats will be having fun with our kids (I hope more than 1) and going on breaks with them. Also we will hardly be in our dotage at 60 when they're 20 and have not been wanting to be seen dead with us for years like all self respecting teenagers.

ExpatAl Wed 23-Jan-13 22:08:22

Yes, 4 decades of nappies is quite a thought!

MrsDeVere Wed 23-Jan-13 22:11:36

My parents never helped anyway.
Besides, my dad died when he was 57. He had three kids by the time he was 23.

I had no network of willing family when I was 25 and had DD, I have no network of willing family now I am 45.

I remember a thread like this on NM. It was predictably surreal (I am fairly sure that is an oxymoron but never mind).
Amid the 'its dicusting to have a baby when you are over 35' posts there was a corker.

One poster was 'discusted' that anyone would be so selfish as to have a baby if they were not going to be able to be a young great-grand parent shock

She didn't just think it would be nice to be around to meet her great grandchildren, she insisted it was a mother's duty to be around to be a cool ggm.

I mean, I knew I was being selfish and dicusting (sic) having a baby at the grand old age of 43 but I hadn't realised just how selfish and discusting...

ExpatAl Wed 23-Jan-13 22:18:50

How young does a great grand mother have to be?? I shall send a stand in.

I have a fab picture of my gran, mum, sister, niece and just born great niece. 5 generations of women. My gran was 104 and died shortly after the picture was taken. I feel sad that I won't have that picture but we'll make other memories.

sukysue Wed 23-Jan-13 22:29:32

God it's bloody hard work and quite honestly why? You already have 3 beautiful children why push it?

expatinscotland Thu 24-Jan-13 01:50:49

Oh, yes, MrsDeVere, that child my gran had at 47, two months before she was 48, went on to be the greatest success of all of them: he is a professor of anaesthesiology, now in his 60s. She had 5 after her first died, all but two past 35: a maths teacher, a petroleum engineer, a social worker, an English teacher, a doctor.

She outlived them all. She died after 2 days illness at 92, her husband, two months younger than she, died suddenly of heart attack, age 90.

Since then, two of her remaining five have died, in their sixties, both because their spouses/partners, older, had gone on before them, and they wanted no cause to live, so they stopped taking the drugs that kept them alive.

I was 40 when I had my DP. The God anaesthetist who did my epidural cheerfully told me his wife had all three of their children in her forties.

He was my favourite person for a long time.

I got preggers again at 41, lost it and have been trying ever since. I've also given myself deadlines and every time I reach it (it was 42) I think "Well, keep trying a little longer".

In some ways I think times are changing and "geriatric mothers" (seriously hmm) are on the increase but you know, women have been having children in their 40's for centuries!

ExpatAl Thu 24-Jan-13 09:09:30

in other countries it's not viewed with such horror. There are probably some places where you'd look noticably older but where i live I wouldn't look out of place at the school gate at all.

orangeandlemons Thu 24-Jan-13 09:24:16

My mum had me late. She was in her mid/late 60's when I was in my 20's. I never found her difficult or vague to talk to. She was wise, tolerant and huge minded. Her age made no difference at all to my relationship with her. In fact it was a bonus.

I had dd at 42. I love her to bits, but have to admit at 49 I do have less energy than even 42. I am not interested in current music but was when younger, and feel a bit left behind in the whole social networking thing. I do wonder how this is going to impact on her when she is older. I do not dress frumpy most people think I am late 30's, but somewhere at the back of mind is the a little finger of guilt saying I am too old for her........

Cakecrumbsinmybra Thu 24-Jan-13 13:10:05

eggsy11, well OP has said she has young children and is already in her 40's, so actually you are being a bit offensive. And a bit smug and naive too.

IfNotNowThenWhen Thu 24-Jan-13 20:32:35

Alot of things depend on general health and outlook too.
I was chatting to a woman on the checkout at the supermarket who was about to be GGM at the age of 63. She seemed so much older than that to me-just by her manner and outlook.
My dsis had hers at 42 and my step-dad, who is 70 is very fit and healthy, always has the latest phone, plays computer games and is very involved with his gdc. I reckon he has a good 20 years in him.
I also overheard two men in the butchers chatting. I took them to be 65-70 until they started talking about the ages of their kids (50-60) and one of them said "and you'll be hitting 90 soon, like me Bob?" I did a double take, because one of them was the butcher-still working!
The other one said "Aye. We've got another 10 year or so at least".
"Oh aye" said the first man. " I'm might even retire and enjoy me sen"
grin(And they were not kidding!)

IfNotNowThenWhen Thu 24-Jan-13 20:34:39

Oh, for the non Yorkshire folk "me sen" means myself

crashdoll Thu 24-Jan-13 20:46:58

I was 40 when I had my DP.

grin Quite an age difference between you and your partner, is there?!

grin Well I suppose I did! DS I mean - doh!

greenfolder Thu 24-Jan-13 22:02:14

Ok- I feel compelled to say this

Dd3 arrived when I was nearly 40, when others were 10 and 12. I in no way regret having her-she is a much wanted and loved child. Dds now 18,15 and 5.

If I had had any inkling how hard, draining and expensive teens are, I am really not sure I would have been so keen. You are already looking at 3 teens already. Think ahead a bit.

orangeandlemons Fri 25-Jan-13 11:18:53

Yes, will second that about teens. The cost!

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 25-Jan-13 14:24:55

Cost of school shoes! Holiday travel/accommodation! Food bills! Replacing broken/lost gadgets! Driving lessons! <apparently bottomless pockets, thank goodness for money tree we planted>.

Of course they are worth it {eyes water}.

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