to wonder why the female co-presenter on Countdown has to dress like a stripper

(309 Posts)
hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 15:08:38

Just that.

Is this 2013? Just utterly depressing.

What do strippers dress like?

bringnbuy Mon 21-Jan-13 15:09:34

so many female tv personalitys seem to have their baps out, almost prostituting themselves.

I've never seen a stripper dress like the lovely Rachel.

ShatnersBassoon Mon 21-Jan-13 15:11:37

I don't suppose she has to. She must like the clothes, she probably chooses them.

Is the something wrong with women wearing what they want?

MrsBucketxx Mon 21-Jan-13 15:13:36

She is allowed to wear what she likes she is young and pretty, (unlike Carol voderman who dreses like this when she is waaaayyy to old, but thats another issue) sounds like your jealous


MissMalteser Mon 21-Jan-13 15:14:11

Carol vorderman didn't, I don't think she dresses like a stripper

hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 15:14:43

Every time I have the misfortune to see it while turning over to cbeebies she is wearing something very revealing.

Today she is wearing a skin tight pink leopard print.

Why? Why does my daughter have to be told that women have to dress in this manner in order to do some maths on the telly. This program is the sort of thing that I imagine a lot of slightly older school kids watch when they get in. What message does it give? Men can sit around in a suit while their 'assistant' pouts wearing a skin tight dress.

CheeseStrawWars Mon 21-Jan-13 15:14:57

Whatserface in dictionary corner doesn't.

hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 15:16:22

Yes, I am jealous. That is definitely what the problem is here.

Oh yes very revealing I can see her hands, neck, head and legs from just above the knees, no cleavage or fanny on show. I couldn't even see her knickers when she sat down

MrsBucketxx Mon 21-Jan-13 15:17:41

I mean now, mutton dressed as lizard.

MrsBucketxx Mon 21-Jan-13 15:19:36

Feminism allows you choice, choice to wear what she wants.

Its 2013 not 1913

IThinkOfHappyWhenIThinkOfYou Mon 21-Jan-13 15:21:57

She should be able to were what she wants. The men's clothes shouldn't be held up as the standard.

hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 15:24:06

binky the dress is revealing of her body shape and mahoosive tits. There is nothing wrong with women choosing to wear what they want. But that is not my point.

Her appointment to this role and her wardrobe choices are the result of the decisions made by the program's production team. They have decided that they will get bigger viewing figures if they put the assistant in a skin tight leopard print. It is this that depresses me. Is it any wonder that our daughters are feeling under pressure to be 'sexy too soon' when this is the sort of crap they are subjected to day in day out.

When I was a young teen, Carol Vorderman would have been in this role. She would not be wearing a skin tight leopard print dress. I would have been impressed by her maths skills, not wondering at her massive tits.

drjohnsonscat Mon 21-Jan-13 15:25:07

I don't know what they wear on Countdown but it is an ongoing issue on TV that the women have to dress like they are going to a nightclub while the men dress for the office. Drives me mad. It is a feminist issue - the fact that you in theory have the choice to wear whatever you like doesn't mean that society is not imposing pressures on you to look a certain way. It's the Bruce/Tess Daly problem in a nutshell.

Susan2kids Mon 21-Jan-13 15:26:56

YOu have clearly never seen a stripper. Whats a bit sad is that you feel the need to denegrate another woman for wearing clothing thats not terribly revealing and not out of place in most offices.

She as an intelligent woman, capable of thinking for herself, couldn't possibly have picked the outfit for herself.

Sallyingforth Mon 21-Jan-13 15:28:22

I haven't seen the pejorative term presenter and have no idea who she is, but I expect she got her tits out for the audition and now it's expected of her.

Her tits are not out, her dress is close fitting, put a jacket on and you wouldn't notice anything.

hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 15:32:12

I am not denegrating the presenter.

I am despairing of the status quo in our society that says women (particularly in the media) will be more successful if they confirm to a certain body shape and dress in a sexy outfit. Why is this ok? This view permeates every element of our media and it is very destructive to our childrens' view of the world.

I just don't buy the whole 'feminism means she can choose to wear what she wants'. I think her wardrobe on this show demonstrates that feminism has failed.

hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 15:36:08

But Binky if she has control of her own on screen wardrobe, why is she choosing this? What is going on in our society that makes her feel that she need to wear these outfits? Why isn't she wearing a jacket? Because she and her production team think it more beneficial to the success of the program if she wears skin tight clothes.

drjohnsonscat Mon 21-Jan-13 15:37:40

probably not stripper material but certainly not equivalent to what the men were wearing. But then when do you ever see a woman on tv wearing either a sober business suit (what the men wear) or a plain top and trousers without excessive flesh on show (again what the men wear).

I don't know why people struggle with the notion that there are different standards for women and that's wrong. A woman who can do maths is difficult for some people so we soften her up with glam clothes that show off her femininity. If a woman on tv doesn't do this (Mary Beard) she gets viciously attacked and here's how:

Why does there have to be a reason other than, she likes it, she feels comfortable in it and she wants to wear it?

MrsBucketxx Mon 21-Jan-13 15:39:05

Why should she HAVE to wear fugly clothes.

Would you rather her wear a habit or a birker.

Feminism is alive and well cause she wears what she wants too. You have the issue not her.

YorkshireDeb Mon 21-Jan-13 15:41:04

Missed countdown. Was she dressed as a policewoman or a frenchmaid? X

She is an Oxford Maths graduate, so i doubt that she had to "tits out for the interview".

She is only 26 and according to the interviews that she gives, the clothes are hers,she enjoys that there is a fan website, Rachel Watch, which scores her choice of dress.

She has very good legs and in the picturs of her in everyday life, she shows off their shape.

I wish that it wasn't seen as a self esteem issue if a woman enjoys how she looks, or forced by the patriarchy.

She is newly married, becoming popular and enjoying herself.

hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 15:48:44

Yes exactly drjohnsonscat

MrsBucket there are many wardrobe choices in between a skin tight leopard print' pulled tight over pneumatic boobs and 'fugly' or indeed a 'birker'.

I used to work with many very attractive young people in a professional environment, and the women managed to wear clothes that were attractive but professional. I suspect that you and I have rather different world views so we will have to agree to disagree.

ham - if you think Rachel Riley has "mahoosive tits" I dread to think what you'd call size D cups. Because, sorry, but, shapely though they may be, they are certainly not "mahoosive" by any stretch of the imagination.

Is she wearing Courtney Stodden "I'm so gorgeous and I was a 16 yo virgin bride" clear perspex stripper shoes?

No ?

MrsBucketxx Mon 21-Jan-13 15:50:27

Are you mary whitehouse (reincarnated) op?

hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 15:51:39

birdsgotta but don't you see that what you just typed is so utterly depressing? She is an Oxford Maths graduate, yet her success is measured by a website of fans rating her dress of the day. Good God.

MrsBucketxx Mon 21-Jan-13 15:52:31

Why do you need to cover up to be taken seriously?

She has proved she has brains, and is very educated.

rottentomatoes Mon 21-Jan-13 15:53:02


It's is rife on TV, so many pairings of younger dressed in skin tight clothes female, older more conservatively dressed male.

ham - they are not mahoosive nor pneumatic. Don't be so preposterous.

HecateWhoopass Mon 21-Jan-13 15:54:15

Women are primarily judged on looks. Men on ability.

The clothes are a symptom of this.

Another is the absence of older women on the telly. Countless older men. Far fewer older women. Team the old bloke up with the young woman. Put the young woman in sexy clothes. films. Count the number of older men in hollywood getting the blockbusters as opposed to the number of women of the same age.

The issue isn't women choosing to wear certain clothes, imo.

MrsBucketxx Mon 21-Jan-13 15:54:15

Because, like most women I know have a healthy interest in fashion.

Is that not the case with you then?

I know a few students all love clothes too. Its about feeling good.

MrsBucketxx Mon 21-Jan-13 15:55:24

Best actress 2012 was Meryl Streep wasnt it.

hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 15:55:30

Wow. So is this the educated view of mumsnet. 'If you object to your daughter being brought up in a world where women being sexually objectified by the media is the accepted norm you must be Mary Whitehouse or want all women to wear a burkha'.

Have I strayed onto the forums of 'Nuts magazine' by accident?

I was depressed about it before, but even more so now.

MrsBucketxx Mon 21-Jan-13 15:57:29

I have nothing to do with "nuts"

niceupthedance Mon 21-Jan-13 15:58:38

I always thought she looks like she's going to a cheap wedding.

ham she knows she is intelligent, she has nothing to prove and says that she enjoys the different turn her life has taken.

That is one fan base, which describes itself as sexist, there is nothing covert about it.

She doesn't owe anyone anything, if she enjoys the clothes that she wears, then she shouldn't have to change.

Some women enjoy accentuating their body shape.

I believe women should be allowed to wear what they want.

rottentomatoes Mon 21-Jan-13 16:00:58

Mrs Bucket

But older women do not play the sexy love interest, whereas the older man does/can.

MrsBucketxx Mon 21-Jan-13 16:01:03

Do you have some body issues op?

MrsBucketxx Mon 21-Jan-13 16:01:48

Meryl did in its complicated,

CheeseStrawWars Mon 21-Jan-13 16:02:07

Why are you fixating on Rachel Riley and ignoring Susie Dent? Is it because Susie is older and therefore invisible?!

MrsBucketxx Mon 21-Jan-13 16:02:28

Mrs robinson in the graduate?

hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 16:02:33

I know lots of women with an interest in fashion, never seen them wearing a pink skin tight leopard skin dress at 3 o'clock in the afternoon though.

I would reverse your question mrsbucket and say, it's not 'Why do you need to cover up to be taken seriously?', but 'Why do you have to dress sexily to be given the job of co-presenter of Countdown'.

How do you know she was given the job because of how she looks in a dress?

MrsBucketxx Mon 21-Jan-13 16:05:08

You dont know what she wore to interview do you?

Her style could have developed later.

MrsCR Mon 21-Jan-13 16:06:29

totally agree op

For such an intelligent, attractive, successful woman I think she has terrible dress sense, she could look so much better if she just got a good stylist - for 4pm in the afternoon she just looks cheap and tarty IMO

its a bit like when the weather readers dress up to the nines for breakfast weather - its just wrong

rottentomatoes Mon 21-Jan-13 16:06:47

Why are posters attacking the OP for not being into fashion or being a bit Mary Whitehouse?

Jeezz it's obvious what the OP is saying why try and twist it.

MrsBucketxx Mon 21-Jan-13 16:06:58

Binky op things the interview was like miss world with a swim suit section.

Only with phd students applying.

She couldn't have got the job because she is a mathematician and can present at the same time, that would be unthinkable, it has be because she looks good in tight clothes.

"never seen them wearing a pink skin tight leopard skin dress at 3 o'clock in the afternoon though"

Come to Liverpool, my DD's went to Paris at 9am, with full make up (done by a beautician) and rollers in, they didn't look out of place, going through Liverpool.

Different regions/women, dress differently. Travelling around the world means that you realise the difference.

rottentomatoes Mon 21-Jan-13 16:09:09

Mrs Bucket

The graduate is about an older women. I am saying where the story is not specific, there can often be an older sexy male main love interest but you don't see the same older female love interest unless like the graduate that is the bloody story. FFS!

Habble Mon 21-Jan-13 16:11:14

MrsBucketxx A bit late to the party but don't you think there's a massive discrepancy between:

Feminism allows you choice, choice to wear what she wants.


She is allowed to wear what she likes she is young and pretty, (unlike Carol voderman who dreses like this when she is waaaayyy to old, but thats another issue)

hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 16:11:24

No body issues mrsbucket, just society issues. However I'll tell you who does have 'body issues'. A large proportion of the young women growing up in our country today, who see these unrealistic, 'sexed up' versions of women at every turn in the media and think that they are somehow failing at life because their own body does not come up to scratch. I am very happy with my own body. Maybe this is because when I was a child I didn't have to put up with a constant bombardment of air brushed, hyper sexy images of womanhood.

cheese the reason I have focussed on Rachel Riley is that she is the one with the 'sexy' dress code.

rottentomatoes Mon 21-Jan-13 16:11:28

Funny how both the choices for the job on count down, Carol and Rachael both wore/wear tight fitting clothes and lots of make up.

Of course it is just a co-incidence not that the TV company were looking for a bit of educated 'glamour'

drjohnsonscat Mon 21-Jan-13 16:13:54

gosh this is a depressing thread. OP must be Mary Whitehouse and have body issues....

Actually I am now watching on +1 and I can see why the OP posted about the whole outfit which is a bit Bet Lynch.

FWIW feminism has quite a lot to say about what you wear. But not sure this is the audience for it since this is obviously a thread for suggesting women who don't like to see other women wearing inappropriate clothing and playing to the idea that clever women are too scary in their own right must be unfashionable, prudish or jealous.

hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 16:18:20

And back in the day rottentomatoes (when I were a lass) Carol didn't used to wear tight fitting clothes at all. Then as the years went by, and the lads culture became more pervasive, she lost tons of weight, started dressing more and more sexily and if I remember correctly sold her 'miracle diet' and joined in with the media circus.

I seem to recall Carol used to wear a lot of jumpers and blouses in the 80s. She glammed up as the show went along.

"if she has control of her own on screen wardrobe, why is she choosing this? What is going on in our society that makes her feel that she need to wear these outfits? Why isn't she wearing a jacket?"

She might like it, and I presume that under the studio lights there is little need for a jacket. <shrugs>

If she's wearing it because she's told to or because she feels she has to, then obviously that isn't right. But you don't know that is the case.

I agree with you that in general there is a message given that women must be constantly youthful and sexy, but picking out an individual case where you don't know how much input she has into her clothes, seems a bit off.

"She is an Oxford Maths graduate, yet her success is measured by a website of fans rating her dress of the day."

Read birds post again, she didn't say the success was measured by her choice of dress. She said that the presenter enjoys seeing people's reactions to her dresses on a fansite.

hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 16:22:42

Yes it is very depressing drjohnsonscat.

drjohnsonscat Mon 21-Jan-13 16:27:36

Actually I hope she did choose that outfit because if a professional stylist chose it they should be shot.

No we don't know why she was wearing it but they have her perched on a little bar stool so she has to cross her legs and show a bit more leg while she does it. I'm sure she gets the message - you are the maths dolly bird. This is what it's like on an afternoon show for pensioners - heaven help the rest of us.

At least she had sleeves - I hate seeing these female presenters in sleeveless tops in this weather, next to men wearing normal clothes. It makes me feel cold! Hands up whose wearing a sleeveless top today? No, thought not. Only on TV.

"Hands up whose wearing a sleeveless top today? "

<puts hand up>

I am indoors. And I have heating on. It's probably far hotter under studio lights. In all honesty the women on TV in sleeveless tops are probably much more comfortable than the men in suits!

Bella88 Mon 21-Jan-13 16:31:32

Every young woman must dress like they are gagging for it 24/7, even highly educated tv brainboxs.

Makes you wonder how far we've really come.

Remotecontrolduck Mon 21-Jan-13 16:33:48

Pretty sure she, as an inelligent woman and Oxford graduate, is capable of deciding what she wants to wear on TV. She can leave if she isn't comfortable with any aspect of her job.

Perhaps she wants to wear these things because she's confident about how she looks? She's worn trousers before, and less revealing things. It's not like they've plucked some girl off TOWIE for the show purely because she looks good, she has brains as well.

Not all women wear things because men like it or someone told them to.

drjohnsonscat Mon 21-Jan-13 16:34:48

Those studios aren't usually hot - the lights are but they are often big open spaces. Can't believe you are sleeveless today - I have heating on full and two jumpers and am just about the right temp.

Actually I'm going to come out and say that I don't like sleeveless tops at work, really ever. At a pinch when it's 38 degrees (rare) but on the whole I don't like the risk of a glimpse of armpit. Not professional imho. That's mainly just a personal opinion but it's also a gender thing - men in office environments do not flash the flesh (thank god).

drjohnsonscat Mon 21-Jan-13 16:36:06

I think that's the point remote. She's not some girl off TOWIE but she is dressed like that. She's dressed as though her sexiness is her main deal. I actually think it's a bit embarrassing.

Hobbitation Mon 21-Jan-13 16:36:22

I don't know what she was wearing today, but whenever I have watched it she was wearing just the sort of thing I used to wear when I was early to mid twenties. As Erin Brockovitch said "While I have just the one ass..."

I thought you were only allowed on tv if you were young, good looking and dressed like a stripper. - women only of course - men can be 105.

No body issues here btw, just an issue with the media.

hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 16:38:06

I agree murderofgoths that maybe my title thread was a little to personal about that individual presenter. To be clear I have no gripes about her as an individual. She is an intelligent beautiful young woman. But I despair at a society where she has more professional and monetary success because she chooses to wear what she does. If she chose to wear tweed suits and pearls she would not be anywhere near as successful and that is wrong. She is successful in large part due to the fact that she is 'a babe'. This is depressing and teaches our daughters a wholly unacceptable lesson in life.

I am particularly struck with this show, as it's something I used to watch as a girl of 12 / 13, and something that I've not seen for many many years. I happen to have seen it in passing quite often recently and have been struck by what Rachel wears each time. I have very clear memories of being impressed with Carol's maths as a youngster but having no thoughts relating to her appearance at that age. I wonder what a 12 year old girl watching Rachel would make of it all. Would her only reaction be 'Wow, that woman is really super intelligent' or more realistically would it also be 'That woman has a perfect body, that I can never aspire to and is what women are meant to look like'.

The rates of self harm, self hatred, eating disorders, depression etc in young women is sky rocketing and I think this is all part of that picture.

Hobbitation Mon 21-Jan-13 16:38:36

I used to wear sleeveless blouses under a suit when I was a lawyer, in summer. Proper blouses though, not summer tops.

Hobbitation Mon 21-Jan-13 16:40:40

^ have very clear memories of being impressed with Carol's maths as a youngster but having no thoughts relating to her appearance at that age.^

Whereas if the internet had been around then, older people would be saying the same as you are about Rachel.

piratecat Mon 21-Jan-13 16:42:21

when i first saw her clothes I thought, they looked like a cheap sack of shit tbh.

drjohnsonscat Mon 21-Jan-13 16:42:58

No they wouldn't. She wore quite modest clothes - suits and jumpers. This was before she had her makeover and went "hot".

Hobbitation Mon 21-Jan-13 16:45:50

She looks like she is wearing the 80s equivalent of what Rachel wears

piratecat Mon 21-Jan-13 16:45:55

Yeah it's just a coincidence that here and on breakfast tv and most other shows there's an old fella as the main and a young woman in sexier dress as his sidekick. It's all just a coincidence and any objectors are
A. Prudes
B. jealous
C. don't get feminism.

drjohnsonscat Mon 21-Jan-13 16:46:41
hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 16:47:19

Well I'm not sure hobbit because when I was young (a million years ago) Carol just dressed 'normally'. It was quite a big deal when she got all 'sexed up', at which point maybe they would have been.

It was probably around the same time as all the older female newsreaders were sacked and suddenly we had Kirsty Young perched on a desk.

Why can't being intelligent be enough, why does dressing like your in TOWIE mean that you are more successful? Why do women defend this fact? I genuinely don't understand it.

I wish my daughter was growing up in a world where her attractiveness was not going to be a key factor in her professional success in a way that simply won't apply to my sons.

Aw, she looks lovely.

Hobbitation Mon 21-Jan-13 16:49:12

Anyway, she seems a lovely woman and very much empowered IMO. If you want to make a feminist point she's a poor example to choose, and I'm afraid it just looks rather catty.

drjohnsonscat Mon 21-Jan-13 16:51:22

I knew someone was going to say empowered. Funnily enough that's what pole dancers say about themselves too.

Then "catty" (meaning jealous really). This is kind of unfeminist bingo.

hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 16:51:49

Fair enough hobbit, that is pretty similar.

I remember her more as drjohnsonscat picture.

or thisisaeuphamism having body issues and wanting all women to wear a 'birker' hmm

MooMooSkit Mon 21-Jan-13 16:51:57

I don't think it's too revealing, she can wear what it wants. I've always thought she dresses like she's going clubbing tho or to a wedding.

HotPanda Mon 21-Jan-13 16:55:08

I work in a city office. Tight shift dresses are pretty standard here, as are pencil skirts and sleeveless tops. We all manage to be intelligent AND wear clothing that we like.

LesBOFerables Mon 21-Jan-13 16:55:23

I agree with you, OP- I've long thought this. The clothes aren't even fashionable- they are generally selected, it would seem, purely on the basis of being 'body-con' and thus eye-candy for not-terribly-fashion-conscious elderly male viewers. Anyone who thinks the production team are not the main impetus behind wardrobe decisions on television is a bit naive and has obviously never seen much which goes on behind the scenes in television. If you had, you wouldn't give much credence to that blog where viewers vote on the outfits (puke), trust me.

Hobbitation Mon 21-Jan-13 16:59:50

I'm a feminist and certainly think the television and film industry is sexist and ageist. But I don't have a problem with Rachel. Yes it's unequal that women show flesh and men on the whole don't. But I'd argue that men's fashion and most men's dress sense is ridiculously conservative and boring and they need to be liberated in this respect. Especially all the worry about appearing effeminate, WTF? Also equally requiring women to dress modestly, or saying that only modest dress is valid is a bit biblical.

And there is nothing wrong with actually wanting to look attractive. Feeling that this is the only value you have or that this is obligatory or the only thing in your life is wrong.

But knowing and revelling in your own sexual power is absolutely terrific fun.

hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 17:04:23

Well sorry if it seemed 'catty', as I've said above my primary point was not about her clothes, as the society that we live in that demands such clothes.

I don't think she seems 'very much empowered' at all, I think that if she was genuinely empowered she would make different choices. But that's obviously just my reaction to it. I honestly doubt that lots of men looking at her in this sort of outfit would think 'oh what an empowered intelligent young woman'. I think she is doing herself a huge disservice.

Actually, I was about to link to the 'dress' website, but having read the vile comments on there I am not going to give it a free advert. Believe me, none of them were commenting on her intelligence or personality.

weeps a bit

drjohnsonscat Mon 21-Jan-13 17:04:40

hobbitation I completely agree with you about men's clothes. There is very little leeway and I think the fear of being seen as effeminate is a big limitation (that's a whole thread on its own).

I also agree that sexual power is a pleasing thing to have. But as I think we have (mostly) all agreed, it seems to be only women who are expected to display their sexuality in order to progress on TV. Men can take their sexual power for granted and just trade on their wit, their intelligence, whatever. Not many men in ordinary tv presenting jobs are trading on their sexuality and even at the more showbizzy end of TV, they don't have to look as overtly sexual as women have to (back to Bruce again).

fluffyraggies Mon 21-Jan-13 17:04:42

When people start insinuating women who question sexualisation issues of being jealous, it always reminds me of blokes crying lesbian at women who don't want to go out with them.

Grimebuster Mon 21-Jan-13 17:06:42

I guess she must be happy knowing she's essentially porn fodder for the over-60s.

ArtsMumma Mon 21-Jan-13 17:09:44

Interestingly, if she decided to wear a trouser suit that would be acceptable, and yet if the male presenter decided to wear a lycra dress people would be up in arms.

She can wear what she wants because women have that kind of freedom now - but can he?

Love that! fluffyraggies

LesBOFerables Mon 21-Jan-13 17:12:07

<weeps with hamtastrophe and hits the gin>

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 17:12:07

Look, the mistake you made was to post this OP on AIBU.

It should have have gone in FWR, you would have got a very different reaction

AIBU is full of women simply waiting to pounce on people and twist their words, thus putting them down, it is sport for them

whoever said to "do you have body issues OP" (can't be arsed to scroll) is certainly on a goading trip and should be very ashamed of that comment

Ah but he has the freedom to grow old on tv. She does not.

hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 17:14:24

fluffyraggies grin

wine red gin for me please LesBOF.

hamtastrophe Mon 21-Jan-13 17:17:45

Agreed AF

Pan Mon 21-Jan-13 17:20:00

Rachel thingy does not dress like a stripper. ipso facto this is an invalid question.


lovelyladuree Mon 21-Jan-13 17:24:52

She is trying to distract everyone from her eyes. Have you noticed they go off in different directions, like Kate Moss's? who also uses the stripper technique of dress

There was a bit of a tangent earlier on the thread about always seeing older men on TV and never older women. How the older female newsreaders were all pensioned off a few years ago (well done Chris Evans in bringing back Moira Stuart for his Radio 2 breakfast show). A lot of older female actresses have been complaing a lot lately that there are so few good roles - let alone presenting jobs - for older female actresses unless you are Meryl Streep or Helen Mirren. Both of those can still be very glam and sexy.

Hobbitation Mon 21-Jan-13 21:49:20

AIBU is full of women simply waiting to pounce on people and twist their words, thus putting them down, it is sport for them

<Cough> Some people post in more than one board...

Hobbitation Mon 21-Jan-13 21:52:19

It might have also have been better if the OP has asked "Are women on television (and IRL) expected to reveal more flesh than men? If so, why?" rather than targetting an individual.

MummytoKatie Mon 21-Jan-13 23:21:58

As a mathematician I like the message she gives - that you can be sexy and good at maths. I grew up in the days of "Saved by the bell" etc where the girl who was good at maths always always had glasses (usually held together by masking tape), buck teeth and spoke in a weird monotone.

Another thought - being good at maths - particularly that type of mental arithmetic - is something you are generally born with. Remaing a size 10 past the age of 25 is something most people have to work hard at. Why is the genetic thing the one that we are supposed to be admiring?

"I don't think she seems 'very much empowered' at all, I think that if she was genuinely empowered she would make different choices."

I get what you mean, but at the same time saying "she wouldn't wear that if she was empowered" edges into territory of telling women what they should wear.

Ideally we should all be able to dress however we like without being treated negatively for it or being told we have to dress certain ways to achieve anything. She should be as free to "dress like a stripper" as she is to wear a business suit, or just something casual. Because we are all more than just our clothes.

And I think that's the problem with addressing it at a specific person, it reads like a judgement on her rather than society. Talking in general terms reads less like an attack.

I think it is totally possible to be empowered while dressing in a "sexy" way, because it's about so much more than that. And it does come across as offensive when it is suggested that someone couldn't possibly have picked their own outfit.

Having said all that, the way women are expected to look in the media, is horrific and reduces us to nothing more than mannequins. I just don't see that all women refusing to dress that way will necessarily help matters if it isn't what the women want.

It wasn't actually all that long ago that to "achieve" as a woman you needed to be modest/ladylike, and if you dared dress sexy/slutty you were seen as worthless. I know you weren't saying that she was worthless for dressing that way, but it did read as though you were saying she'd be almost worth more if she dressed more modestly.

Hobbitation Mon 21-Jan-13 23:50:46

Great post, MOG. My thoughts exactly.

DoodlesNoodles Tue 22-Jan-13 00:14:38

We call her Oh-no-what-is-she-wearing

Typical conversation between my Mum and I.......

"hey Mum, did you see what Oh-no-what-is-she-wearing was wearing today? "

"yes Doodles, I don't believe Oh-no-what-is-she-wearing would be able to sit down in that dress, let alone breathe" confused

DizzyZebra Tue 22-Jan-13 00:39:59

I don't see a problem with it as long as she is comfortable. I don't think it is 'telling' your daughter anything - Unless you tell her that it is. You tell your daughter she is free to wear anything she wants to, without fear of being branded a 'stripper'. Oh wait... She doesn't.

DizzyZebra Tue 22-Jan-13 00:48:50

Have just read the rest of the thread OP, And my god your views are patronizing and insulting.

MakeItALarge Tue 22-Jan-13 01:28:21

Op maybe you could explain to your dd that one should not judge people on the way they dress or their bra size.

Diddydollydo Tue 22-Jan-13 06:17:00

Well dress sense is pretty subjective so it's up to her really. To be honest I have more of an issue with women constantly and publically berating and making bitchy comments about other women. I teach my daughter to never judge anyone, regardless of gender, on what they wear.

JusticeCrab Tue 22-Jan-13 06:21:05

What do you expect her to wear? A fucking cardigan?

donburi Tue 22-Jan-13 06:41:47

I watched that show since I was a child but lost interest when Rachel came along. It is not just what she looks like but also the fact that she seems unable to solve a lot of the trickier maths problems compared to Carol. There have been times when I have got them without trying and I am not even being paid to concentrate of them. I think she is too wrapped up in her own sex-appeal to give the show the dedication and love it deserves. Whatever people may think of Carol, she had that in bucket loads.

FWIW, I don't think she dresses correctly for her body type and she is too voluptuous to wear those outfits without being compared to a stripper as she is big-boned - Lara Lewington could wear the same things and nobody would bat an eyelid.

It may well be that the fact that she is an Essex girl born and bred in Southend has informed her choices far more than the fact that she has been to Oxford. It may be her way of saying 'I have always been trashy and made it anyway - why should I change?'

JusticeCrab Tue 22-Jan-13 06:56:18

Bloody hell, it's like whack-a-mole here, only with snobs instead of moles.

maddening Tue 22-Jan-13 08:30:56

I went to see countdown being filmed - Carol had a man with a clipboard helping during the maths question shock

My DD is 2 and loves Countdown so we watch it most days (yes, I have a two year old who loves shouting "consonant!").

To be honest, I think she looks worse when she wears those horrible curtain dresses that are more modest. She has a fantastic figure so why the hell not, though. I can understand what the OP is saying but she IS a double first maths graduate and I would imagine that would be the first consideration when giving her the job.

Also if you've ever seen her on 8 out of 10 Cats, she wears far MORE make-up when she isn't on there. She also comes across as very funny and articulate.

CocktailQueen Tue 22-Jan-13 08:52:20

YANBU. Inappropriate and why?? You don't get male presenters having to dress in the same way! Even for Sky sports presenting, or weather presenting, women seem to have to swear tight clothing showing off their boobs! And don't get me started on Holly W et al. on saturday nights ;-)

Tweasels Tue 22-Jan-13 09:05:33

Surely without knowing why she dresses that way, we really shouldn't comment. E.g. Is that her style and how she likes to dress for work, if so then she shouldn't be criticised.

Is she told to dress like that to "sex" it up? If so, that's a disgrace.

I don't even get the concept of proving intelligent women can be attractive too - like this somehow adds value to their intelligence.

SpicyPear Tue 22-Jan-13 09:39:13


I made a very big mistake looking at that fan page. I could weep. She is a disgrace for encouraging it. It's not light-hearted fun, it's choca block full of vile misogyny.

donburi Tue 22-Jan-13 09:51:28

well there was an interview a year or so ago in which the tv network explained that they do not influence her choice of outfits. She may grow out of it but it is embarrassing to see sometimes and has dragged that prog down into the C4 trash TV category

OnwardBound Tue 22-Jan-13 09:56:04

I was about to say the same thing Cocktail.

DH watches Sky Sports and I am always aghast at the disparity between the male and female presenter.

Male presenters are about 50 years old, with a little grey in their hair for gravitas and wear a plain dark coloured suit. Their physical appearance is unremarkable, as the viewer you are meant to concentrate on what they are saying not how they look.

The female presenters are about 22 years old, very pretty, with generally long blonde hair, worn loose. They are in sleeveless low cut tops/dresses which are in bright colours and are skin tight.
They look like cocktail waitresses or the girls with the clipboard at the entrance of a nightclub.

I know it's only Sky Sports but wtf!

BegoniaBampot Tue 22-Jan-13 10:08:28

hope she isn't choosing those clothes or her dress sense is bloody awful.

Hullygully Tue 22-Jan-13 10:10:49

Have only read OP


Not just her ALL female presenters, inc most newsreaders, even if not like strippers are all about the appearance


cantspel Tue 22-Jan-13 10:18:53

Alex Hammond is the female blonde sky sports presenter.

Yes she has lovely loose blonde hair but she is also a very knowledgeable racing pundit. Oh and she is not 22 just blessed with youthful looks.

Judgemental much?

ALittleScatterOfRain Tue 22-Jan-13 10:23:06

Women should be able to wear whatever they want (well, within reason) without it being taken as any reflection on their abilities.

However I don't think the point about Bruce and Tess is valid. They're wearing evening dress, so a dinner jacket is really his only choice and a dress of some sort for her. She couldn't wear a suit, becaise it wouldn't fit the feel of the programme (judges is evening dress etc.). However on Countdown she could wear any type of clothes, if it's her choice then that's fine.

If she feels she has to 'child's that style, it's not so good.

TooMuchRain Tue 22-Jan-13 10:26:32

YANBU and this thread is quite depressing, the pressures on women to dress sexually is immense and the fact that many 'choose' to do is NOT a great success for feminism.

Would you rather her wear a habit or a birker.

It's basically the same thing; women 'choose' to weat burqas because they are educated to see themselves as sexual objects that must be covered to protect men - and equally women 'choose' to wear sexual clothing in inappropriate contexts because they have been educated to see themselves as sexual objects who are judged predominately on their self-display and other characteristics

SparkyTGD Tue 22-Jan-13 10:27:52


If it was only one woman on TV it would be ok, but it is the 'norm' in the media that women 'have' to look young & attractive.

MrsBucketxx Tue 22-Jan-13 10:36:41

Would you rather watch old and ugly then?

OnwardBound Tue 22-Jan-13 10:36:52

cantspel I have just googled Alex hammond and it's not her I was referring to.

I think it's mostly Charlotte Jackson and possibly Georgie Thompson I see co-presenting.

Not particularly wanting to name names and point fingers but this is the image I am referring to -

OnwardBound Tue 22-Jan-13 10:40:29

Link fail in post above...

Charlotte Jackson presents Sky Sports

KnightRob Tue 22-Jan-13 10:43:43

I am male and watched Countdown yesterday.
I can't remember what Rachel was wearing or what colour it was, but I CAN remember two of the maths puzzles.

You may say that's a good thing. I may say it's depressing!

ALittleScatterOfRain Tue 22-Jan-13 10:49:23

Sorry, was on the app. That should say

If she feels she has to 'choose' that style...

AnyFucker Tue 22-Jan-13 10:52:22

Are "old" and "ugly" synonymous in your world, mrsbucket?

That must be a scary place to inhabit

"Would you rather watch old and ugly then?" - Bloody hell, I can't believe anyone would say that.

I would rather watch women who reflected the massive diversity of woman around me: young, middle aged and old, plain and pretty, fat and thin, not some identikit of young women in tight clothes.

In isolation, the female co-presenter's sexy look is not a problem. The fact that 80% of women on TV look like her is.

SpicyPear Tue 22-Jan-13 10:55:12

That's the issue rain. She has a "choice" between staying young-looking, being slim, dressing provocatively and being on TV or not doing those things and not having a job on TV. It's hardly a real choice and definitely not one men have to make.

Anyone who thinks she would get away with not dressing that way and still have a job is deluded.

"the pressures on women to dress sexually is immense and the fact that many 'choose' to do is NOT a great success for feminism"

If it is a genuine choice rather than something they feel they have to do then I don't see how that would be bad for feminism. And so far no one know whether this case is a genuine choice or not.

The problem is, by saying that dressing provocatively is never a choice then you are essentially saying that people have to dress a certain way (ie. not provocatively). And then we are still telling women what they have to wear and not allowing them to make a choice.

Should repeat that I totally agree that there is pressure on women in general. But wanting all women to stop dressing that way is actually not improving things.

ps. I'd ignore mrsbucket. Either she's deliberately trying to get a rise, or she's vile enough to think that crap and is not going to change her views.

"In isolation, the female co-presenter's sexy look is not a problem. The fact that 80% of women on TV look like her is."


AnyFucker Tue 22-Jan-13 11:37:16

Mrsbuckethead has a hilarious habit of wedging in a quick jab of misogyny whenever he sees an opportunity.

gotthemoononastick Tue 22-Jan-13 11:40:40

Maybe they thought the program would go out later....cocktail wear if you know what I mean...strawclutching...being kind.

MrsBucketxx Tue 22-Jan-13 11:41:00

The media is looks oriented, thats just the way it is,

My doctor is a middle aged woman, I don't expect her to look a certain way,

Vile woman at your service murderofgoths ;)

fluffyraggies Tue 22-Jan-13 12:08:49

"Would you rather watch old and ugly then?" - Bloody hell, I can't believe anyone would say that.

I would rather watch women who reflected the massive diversity of woman around me: young, middle aged and old, plain and pretty, fat and thin, not some identikit of young women in tight clothes.

^^ this.

It is quite possible she is perfectly happy wearing these clothes to do her job, and it's her choice.

I'm cynical enough to believe, however, that she got the job because she's perfectly happy to wear these clothes to do her job, not in spite of it.

Really, can anyone honestly say they think the appearance the majority of female tv presenters is a reflection of the way an average woman looks? I don't. It's blatantly obvious that looks are at least no.2 (if not no.1) on the list of attributes necessary to get a job on telly if you're a woman these days.

drjohnsonscat Tue 22-Jan-13 12:16:57

Mrs Bucket have you ever seen Bruce Forsyth?

HeathRobinson Tue 22-Jan-13 12:17:32

Hmm, fil never misses an episode of Countdown.

SparkyTGD Tue 22-Jan-13 12:19:18

I'd be happy to have 'young and/or attractive' rules on TV if it applied to the men too.

Maybe Gary Barlow could present all the programmes on TV , or Harry Styles <ooh, I like young & cute, that could be a rule> ?

No more Brucie, Eamon Holmes...

cantspel Tue 22-Jan-13 13:02:26

Charlotte jackson is a sports journalist and been about for quite a few years.

She is also able to handle herself in what has been a traditional mans world of football. It was Charlotte who Andy Gray made the sexist remarks to that cost him his job.

She is alot more than just a pretty face for the lads on sky sports.

eggsy11 Tue 22-Jan-13 13:03:40

All my uni housemates loved her. They're all geeky physicists and engineers. She's insanely clever (think she did maths at oxford?) and beautiful. She's a role model to me personally.

mercibucket Tue 22-Jan-13 13:16:09

just had a look on 'rachel watch' and, yes, some of those outfits would be better worn in a nightclub of a small town on a saturday night, and yes, it is depressing that women have to wear these outfits if they are going to be allowed to be clever on tv

hopeful92 Tue 22-Jan-13 13:19:37

She might like dressing like that! I'm sre the producer didn't say "Get your babs out or you're fired"...

Honestly, are you that jealous? It's not like she's wearing a bikini for goodness sake, she is wearing a pretty dress! What do you want her to wear? Trackie bottoms an a baggy hoody?

Shoesme Tue 22-Jan-13 13:22:25

Women bitching about what other women wear, what a shocker.

KoalaTale Tue 22-Jan-13 13:22:58

Yanbu. It is very depressing.

HeathRobinson Tue 22-Jan-13 13:28:15

Daily Mail link about how she's been asked to cover up by her bosses.

fromparistoberlin Tue 22-Jan-13 13:28:54

I get it OP

she is young and pretty, but why dress quite so slutty?

I would prefer to see her in some nice Sandro/Zara/Cos/Chloe, whatever!

she looks she got her dress from the market in Eastenders

BUT, maybe thats her (bad taste)????

GothAnneGeddes Tue 22-Jan-13 13:32:47

Years ago there was a documentary about the kids TV presenter Kirsten O'Brien discussing whether she should do a lads mag spread to further her career as it was seen as the route to "getting on".

But we're all just jealous of pretty ladies in sparkly outfits, there's no real issue is there?

GothAnneGeddes Tue 22-Jan-13 13:36:06

Also, there has been some absolutely fantastic work unpicking the sexism in comic books.

Publishers were claiming that showing Wonder woman in her underwear wasn't sexualised so someone responded with this:

hopeful92 Tue 22-Jan-13 13:37:01

^*"The female presenters are about 22 years old, very pretty, with generally long blonde hair, worn loose. They are in sleeveless low cut tops/dresses which are in bright colours and are skin tight.
They look like cocktail waitresses or the girls with the clipboard at the entrance of a nightclub."*^

How bloody judgemental are you? You're stereotyping people who wear a certain type of clothing! Some women might feel empowered to wear such sexy clothing. When I lost a lot of weight I often wore tight fitting clothing to show off my best assets - not because my body is a "sexual object" as someone so pathetically put it, I am in a long term relationship, I wore the clothes for me, no one else, and I felt good wearing the clothes, and feel equally as good wearing my pj bottoms and a hoody. What is wrong with someone dressing to look nice?

Femenist bollocks pisses me right off. You're the ones drawing attention to her outfits, you're obviously insecure with your husbands looking at her wearing those clothes and so believe she shoudn't be allowed to wear them on TV. Pathetic.

"The media is looks oriented, thats just the way it is"

Ah yes, of course, all those stunners like Bruce Forsyth, Eamonn Holmes, Jeremy Beadle, Jimmy Saville, Noel Edmonds, Chris Evans, Adrian Chiles... do I need to go on? I mean are you now drooling over your keyboard?

GothAnneGeddes Tue 22-Jan-13 13:44:13

I posted a really interesting link, raised a good point and someone says I must feel insecure with my husband sad

GothAnne Have you been watching Escher Girls and the Hawkeye Project? Those are simultaneously hilarious and terrifying ways of showing up sexism in comics!

HeathRobinson Tue 22-Jan-13 13:48:31

Goth - doesn't that pose make the superheroes look stupid.

hopeful92 Tue 22-Jan-13 13:48:35

Sexism in comics... I've heard it all now!

Hope you lot are happy, my car insurance has gone up by 17% thanks to all this "equality"...

FreudiansSlipper Tue 22-Jan-13 13:50:24

The point the op is making a women should not have to dress a certain way on tv, it should not be expected of her, it is not of the men she worls woth. She would not have that job if she was overweight and not as attractive that is a sad fact.

not insecure at all i want tv and the media to appreciate women not just for their looks. and feminist bollocks not sure what that is really feminism has made all our lives better and hopefully it shall continue if you disagree maybe you need to read up a little

hopeful92 Tue 22-Jan-13 14:01:49

There is a big difference between gender equality and feminism. Maybe you need to read up a bit...

hopeful Maybe you should try paying more attention, it wouldn't be such a surprise to you then.

FreudiansSlipper Tue 22-Jan-13 14:09:22

without the feminist movement we would not have equality, something that we are still fighting for

is that not something you want in our society? If you have daughters do you only want them to be judged on what they look like

MrsBucketxx Tue 22-Jan-13 14:12:22

In my experience the only women, shouting slapper, slut whatever are the ones who could never, ever dress like that a case of , I can't so you can't either.

If women are deeming other women have loose morals because of what they where, what chance have we against men thinking the same.

MrsBucketxx Tue 22-Jan-13 14:13:49

If my daughter is praised for her looks good on her, she is more likely to get a better job husband whatever,

If she is educated on top of that its a double whammy.

MrsBucketxx Tue 22-Jan-13 14:14:40

Hhhhhhmmmm is that the smell of hairy women and burning bras.

"who could never, ever dress like that"

Curious, why couldn't they dress like that? In what situation is it physically impossible to wear a skin tight dress?

"If women are deeming other women have loose morals because of what they where, what chance have we against men thinking the same."

Obviously that is an awful way to treat other women, but you can hardly act as if you are superior while making comments about other women being "ugly", "jealous" etc.

(ps. before anyone point out my earlier post, I am in pain and in the mood to take it out on someone)

FreudiansSlipper Tue 22-Jan-13 14:19:42

yawn yawn feminist = ugly fat hairy women who hate men

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

I do absolutely love the use of "hairiness" as an insult from MrsBucket, if everyone could excuse me being incredibly childish for a second, ahem, I'd rather have hair legs than hairy hands <blows raspberry>

MrsBucketxx Tue 22-Jan-13 14:31:42

Thank you thisis.

Takes bow.

MrsBucketxx Tue 22-Jan-13 14:33:12

Now now murder, you getting rather personal arent you.

Which I haven't been once.

Bella88 Tue 22-Jan-13 14:36:40

Do you piss standing up MrBucketxx?

donburi Tue 22-Jan-13 14:37:22

I wish people would stop citing the first from Oxford as a sign of genius. I know several Oxford graduates, some with firsts, who are not 'insanely clever'. I'd much rather have Carol with her third back because even when she suddenly started doing 'fashionable' it was never to the extent of using Countdown as a personal fashion catwalk

hopeful92 Tue 22-Jan-13 14:37:22

"hopeful Maybe you should try paying more attention, it wouldn't be such a surprise to you then."

Erm excuse me? That was the worst attempt at an insult I have come across in a long time. I do not want my daughter growing up thinking she can't dress nicely for fear of tjhinking feminist nutters like you will say she is degrading herself. Equally, I don't want her growing up thinking she has to dress that way. There is a fine line between embracing gender equality and being a feminist nob head.

MrsBucketxx Tue 22-Jan-13 14:40:37

Only with a she wee bella.
Anymore insults?

"Now now murder, you getting rather personal arent you.

Which I haven't been once"

"sounds like your jealous" Mon 21-Jan-13 15:13:36
"You have the issue not her." Mon 21-Jan-13 15:39:05
"Are you mary whitehouse (reincarnated) op?" Mon 21-Jan-13 15:50:27
"Hhhhhhmmmm is that the smell of hairy women and burning bras." Tue 22-Jan-13 14:14:40

Oh no, actually you are right, you haven't been personal once, it's 4 times so far.

"Erm excuse me?"

Well you did suggest you'd never heard of sexism in comics before. I was just pointing out it wasn't a new thing and therefore not very surprising.

FreudiansSlipper Tue 22-Jan-13 14:45:54

hopeful you are still missing the point. Women on tv do have to dress a certain way men do not this is not equal and they do not get equal pay and they are discriminated against because of their age

it is not about women dressing in revealing clothes, making the most of their looks (you do not have to wear tight clothes to do so) it's abut women on tv having to do so what message does this send out to young women when often their presenting partner is much older and overweight

Hmm, unless you weren't surprIsed to hear about sexism in comics but were instead being snarky at people caring about it? shock But surely if that was the case you wouldn't be hypocritical enough to pull someone up for being snarky back would you now?

MrsBucketxx Tue 22-Jan-13 14:50:41

Was that aimed at you murder?

hopeful92 Tue 22-Jan-13 14:51:39

No, I just think it's hysterical that you think it's an issue. Especially ones that were written years and years ago. It's like Enid Blyton books - full to the brim of controversial issues, but at the time they were written, not so much.

This country is full of too much red tape, PC crap and it does my head in. People should be able to wear what they want without you judging them.

I didn't once say I disputed the fact that if she was overweight and "ugly" she probably wouldn't have the job, so I wouldn't have the job, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. The media is always going to be image orientated, it's not some new concept. It doesn't make it right, it's just not worth getting your knickers in your twist about.

Maybe spend your time teaching your daughter about the importance of gender equality if it bothers you that much, instead of insulting pregnant women over the internet.

Does it matter? Getting personal is getting personal isn't it?

"Especially ones that were written years and years ago"

Who said it was only about ones written years and years ago?

"People should be able to wear what they want without you judging them."

I agree, which you'd know if you'd read my earlier rants posts.

"The media is always going to be image orientated"

Only for women.

"It doesn't make it right, it's just not worth getting your knickers in your twist about."

God forbid people might make a fuss about things that aren't right with the aim of changing them.

"Maybe spend your time teaching your daughter about the importance of gender equality if it bothers you that much"

Can you not do both?

Oh and maybe spend your time teaching your children about the importance of not insulting pregnant women if it bothers you that much, instead of insulting ill and disabled women over the internet.

hopeful92 Tue 22-Jan-13 14:59:52

Because I know exactly what you are refering to and it is ridiculous. Women being drawn with large breasts, skimpy outfits, women given defensive powers not offensive powers... Big deal! But this is an entirely different debate, not one about Rachel on Countdown. I woud happily debate with you all day on the matter, but this is not the thread.

hopeful92 Tue 22-Jan-13 15:01:26

The mdeia is image orientated for men too, not just women! Get your head out of your arse, women are not that badly done to, stop making issues where there isn't any! I'm done on the matter, we are never going to agree.

Actually you don't then. I'm referring to women being drawn in ways that defy gravity/biology just in order to look "sexy", because that's reducing them to basically just tits and arse in a way that eliminates pesky little things like spines. I'm also referring to things like this, and this

"The mdeia is image orientated for men too, not just women!"

Ah of course, that's why you never see unattractive men being giving lots of work for high wages. Eg. all those stunners like Bruce Forsyth, Eamonn Holmes, Jeremy Beadle, Jimmy Saville, Noel Edmonds, Chris Evans, Adrian Chiles... do I need to go on?

hopeful92 Tue 22-Jan-13 15:36:23

There are also "unattractive" women in the media on high wages - Adele, Melissa McCarthy, Janet Street-Porter, Dawn French, Lisa Riley, Sandra Bernhard. Fern Britton, Clare Balding,...

And there are also attractive men in the media. Olly Murs, Gary Barlow, Dermot O'Leary, my list could coninue but I have much better things to do.

PickledInAPearTree Tue 22-Jan-13 15:41:21

Its pretty obvious what Countdown are going for. That sort of Plain Jane Super Brain look where chaps think surely a lady that shexy cant be so clever.

Like Vorders was a bit towards the end.

It is slightly creepy, like the ladies that used to turn the cards over with Brucie salivating over them.

MakeItALarge Tue 22-Jan-13 15:53:02

But why are you assuming that is what 'chaps' think? If you read the thread its not men that are insulting her its women.

Saying she is dressed like a stripper is not only judgemental rude it is also incorrect!

PickledInAPearTree Tue 22-Jan-13 16:05:56

The producers of the programme care what the chaps think.

hopeful92 Tue 22-Jan-13 16:25:20

MakeItALarge Finally - someone who understands what I mean. I completely agree that to say she is dressed like a stripper is extremely rude. And who are we to say it is wrong to dress like a stripper anyway?

It's only because of your preconcieved ideas about why someone is dressing a certain way that produces such an outrage. I know for a fact my 6 year old niece would watch countdown and be more interested on the numbers and letters behind Rachel than how much of her legs are showing. Yet if she heard you harping on about how she is dressed like a stripped then she would think it is wrong to dress in that way. So who is in the wrong here - Rachel for wearing it, or you for commenting on the fact she's wearing it.. Hmm..

I for one know which is more damaging to our children...

OnwardBound Tue 22-Jan-13 16:26:08

hopeful and cantspel

I am not sure why you both seem to consider me judgemental and feel the need to personally defend Charlotte Jackson?

I have no issue with the woman, nor what she might choose to wear, or how she does her hair.

My point was purely that I find it a bit off that she is dressed like a glamour model whilst her older male counterpart is in a suit.

I would have no issue with it if she was sat next to a fit young man in a skintight vest.

But yes, I guess really I'm just jealous and that's all there is to it hmm

FreudiansSlipper Tue 22-Jan-13 16:34:02

hopeful all those women you have listed have constantly been ridiculed about being overweight, being ugly they have been torn to shreds by the media over and over again. JSP was the editor of The Independent on Sunday yet comparing her to looking like a horse was a favourite pastime in some papers. She is also very intelligent and outspoken and being so attracted more criticism about her looks

you listed the wrong women for your argument if anything you have backed the argument the op started (though I do not agree with comparing her to looking like a stripper but get the point she is making)

SonOfAradia Tue 22-Jan-13 16:56:48

Dear Women

Thank you for policing what other women wear.

It saves us the job.

Signed: The Patriarchy.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cantspel Tue 22-Jan-13 17:13:40

There are many styles of dress on sky sports as there are many different presenters.
Ed Chamberlin has the tie and braces city trader look.
Jim White the open shirt and v neck jumper
Damon Hill the sexy silver fox look
Mike Wedderburn tie and suit older statement look.

And the men tend to be older as they are retired sportsmen who are now making a career in presenting the sport they used to play.

Why is no one getting all judgemental about Damon Hill's windswept locks or Robbie Saveges blonde highlights?

DoodlesNoodles Tue 22-Jan-13 17:17:48

Blimey,other posters are reading a lot more into this than I do.

When I watch the georgeous, funny and smart Racheal Riley I often nearly always think Wow, that dress is Waaaaaaay too tight, it would look nicer if it didn't look sprayed on. That's all, I don't judge her, I don't disapprove, I just think it would be less distracting and more comfy if her clothes fit her better.

SpicyPear Tue 22-Jan-13 17:22:42

That argument makes no sense sonof. Society does police what people, both men and women, wear. Whether or not you agree with that is a separate matter, but Nick Hewer, for example, is expected to wear a suit. I personally have no problem with there being norms of dress in a professional setting but that's a side issue.

The issue is that the norms for women on television are so different to those for men. Women are expected to dress youthfully, sexily and in a way that shows off their bodies, whereas men are expected to dress in a generic professional manner. The men more or less only have to concern themselves with looking clean and smart, whilst the women are have to be sexy and appealing to male viewers. I don't see how challenging that disparity is doing the Patriarchy's job.

bigbadbarry Tue 22-Jan-13 17:45:57


^"There are also "unattractive" women in the media on high wages - Adele, Melissa McCarthy, Janet Street-Porter, Dawn French, Lisa Riley, Sandra Bernhard. Fern Britton, Clare Balding,...

And there are also attractive men in the media. Olly Murs, Gary Barlow, Dermot O'Leary, my list could coninue but I have much better things to do."^

That's an interesting list you've picked there. Bearing in mind I deliberately picked unattractive men who present things that require little to no expert knowledge, and who are presenters first and foremost. To find unattractive women in the media you've had to look for women who are known (originally) for a career other than presenting, and so have got famous for their skill not their looks.
- comedy (Dawn French, Sandra Bernhard)
- singing (Adele)
- writing (Janet Street-Porter)
- acting (Melissa McCarthy, Lisa Riley)
- jockey (Clare Balding)

Now while you may say, "well those unattractive male presenters got famous for their skill in presenting", don't you find it funny that the women who got famous solely for their skill in presenting are all very attractive?

As for your attractive men in presenting, how many of that list are known only for presenting, or did they maybe get the jobs due to already being known for other skills?

hopeful92 Tue 22-Jan-13 17:58:25

FreudiansSlipper So women who are "ugly" get ridiculed, and women who are beautiful get ridiculed because they only have their jobs because they're beautiful according to you.

What is the difference? You're ririduling the woman off countdown because you believe she "dresses like a stripper", Holly Willoughby gets ridiculed whether she dresses 'frumpy' or 'slutty' in the magazines words. So yet again I ask you, what is the difference.

hopeful92 Tue 22-Jan-13 18:01:50

MurderofGoths Nowhere was this discussion aimed at presenters. I said IN THE MEDIA. Where does that say presenter?!

The girl on Countdown is not a presenter.

So where the hell are you getting this from?!

Basically, you have a contrived view that all women should cover up and dress like a frump just in case someone thinks they are beautiful.

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

hopeful92 Tue 22-Jan-13 18:13:21

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

hopeful92 Tue 22-Jan-13 18:13:53


hopeful92 Tue 22-Jan-13 18:15:51

Don't even bother with a response , it would be pointless as I will not be coming back on this thread after that.

That was the most insensetive, ridiculous thing you could have said.

I hope you are proud of yourself.

It was based on your posts and not your background which I know absolutely zero about.

Sorry if it caused you upset.

Meh. I'll ask to get it deleted.

"The girl on Countdown is not a presenter."

No, so what would you describe her as exactly?

TooMuchRain Tue 22-Jan-13 18:26:47

Maybe spend your time teaching your daughter about the importance of gender equality if it bothers you that much, instead of insulting pregnant women over the internet.
Wow. So someone whose name is hopeful92 because they are having a lot of problems in their pregnancy. And you change their name to hopeless.

That is ridiculous, if you are too emotionally frail to get involved in a discussion maybe don't start one by saying stuff like:

you're obviously insecure with your husbands looking at her wearing those clothes and so believe she shoudn't be allowed to wear them on TV. Pathetic.

AnyFucker Tue 22-Jan-13 18:26:54

Have been out shopping looking at pretty clothes but was coming back to say I prefer Clare Balding as a presenter to the endless succession of cookie-cutter women and patronising blokes.

I used to think Pip Schofield was ok until he denied on national TV that Jimmy Savile could possibly have been a predatory child abuser.

hopeful you are out of order to expect anyone to know what your nickname is meant to represent and your flounce from this thread is more a reflection that your arguments have run out, than as a result of any (perceived) attack on your hopes for a pregnancy

(I wish you luck, btw, I hope you are getting lots of support in RL and possibly in another area of MN)

PickledInAPearTree Tue 22-Jan-13 18:28:26

I think Claire Balding is really attractive. I really do.

AnyFucker Tue 22-Jan-13 18:30:14

Indeed, TMR

In other words, if you can't take it, don't give it out

CountryBelle Tue 22-Jan-13 18:30:36

Original poster, I totally agree with u. I'm utterly, truly, totally and completely fed up of women feeling they need to look and dress a certain way because of how they are constantly portrayed on the media.

Obviously the bosses know fine right well that if they put someone on who looks, or dresses like me, people would be totally uninterested. I am am an entirely average looking women, who enjoys fashion, but I just know that I wouldn't cut it in media circles. Thankfully, I have no desire for such a career. I just think its high time there were some NORMAL looking women presenting tv shows, modelling in magazines etc as I am sick of this false portrayal. I have no idea who the woman on countdown is, what she looks like or what she was wearing today but I am speaking generally.

Before even starting to worry about the generation of young girls, what message does it send out to grown women that "beauty" is fake tan, fake hair, fake nails, fake eyelashes, fake boobs, stick thin, high heels, arghhhhhhhhhhhhhh shockhmmconfused

bigbadbarry Tue 22-Jan-13 18:31:29

"So someone whose name is hopeful92 because they are having a lot of problems in their pregnancy. And you change their name to hopeless."

- This is insane: people on here have all sorts of nicknames for all sorts of reasons.

AnyFucker Tue 22-Jan-13 18:32:44

I didn't say CB was unattractive for the record. I like her because she is very intelligent, very engaging, very warm and very credible

CountryBelle Tue 22-Jan-13 18:32:44

Hamtastrophe, "sexed up" is exactly right. That is just what it is. Fed fed fed fed fed fed up!!!!!!!!

AnyFucker Tue 22-Jan-13 18:34:22

Yep, Barry. My nickname doesn't mean I have sex with everyone I meet wink

PickledInAPearTree Tue 22-Jan-13 18:35:14

I know AF I saw a post down thread.. I was aghast!

SpicyPear Tue 22-Jan-13 18:35:42

hopeful you are completely ridiculous to suggest that thisis should know what your username relates to. This is AIBU and you can't assume anyone here will know anything about your posts on other boards. Lots of women here who are not TTC, pregnant or even necessarily mothers.

I'm sorry to hear you are experiencing difficulties and also hope you are getting the help you need, but it is extremely out of order to put that on thisis. You owe her an apology and should probably steer clear of AIBU until you are on a more even keel.

Eek, I feel terrible. I don't want to upset anyone. It was childish of me.

I hope Mumsnet deletes soon.

(The rest of the post still stands though!)

"Basically, you have a contrived view that all women should cover up and dress like a frump just in case someone thinks they are beautiful."

Basically you haven't bothered to read any of my posts.

I was arguing, very early on in the thread, that women should feel free to wear exactly what they want, whether it's "frumpy, "sexy" or whatever. And that picking out one presenter and attacking her for what she wears is wrong, as is assuming she hasn't chosen her own clothes.

But you cannot deny that, in general, women are expected to look a certain way and are unlikely to go far if they don't fit that look.

As for why was I talking about presenters? Because it's an area in which there should be no discrepancy between men and women. There's no excuse for it. An unattractive man cannot present better than an unattractive woman. And yet you are highly unlikely to see an unattractive woman presenting (unless she is famous enough for something else).

bigbadbarry Tue 22-Jan-13 18:46:31

You really shouldn't feel terrible (but yes of course you do, I would also). But how could you know - I am quite small and quite good IRL, it is all a cunning disguise ;)

Thisis Don't feel awful, they've already used their pregnancy as a reason why no one should disagree with them. I note that they failed to apologise for having a go at a disabled woman though. Seems that insults only work one way round.

BegoniaBampot Tue 22-Jan-13 19:41:50

Slightly different but I live movies and saw a few recently that when I looked at them realised they had about 10 men to every woman. Would love to see a breakdown of how many roles go to women and how many go to men. Know that the mie industry is run mainly by men but FGS women are about half the population, do we not watch movies?

izzyizin Tue 22-Jan-13 20:03:46

It's a cunning plot on the part of the government to encourage older males who tune into afternoon tv to pop their clogs with a smile on their face not become a long-term drain on the penson pot.

Think of it as statefunded Dignitas service for geriatric males who can't be arsed to travel to Switzerland.

fixarupa Tue 22-Jan-13 20:04:36

Oh come on you so called feminists. Are you really so niave to think that this presenter has not been persuaded to wear something to show her assets to boost ratings? I have not seen the show so I can't comment on her precise outfit. However, it almost feels as though we are moving backwards with feminism if an intelligent women has to get her tits out when she is on a show like this. It would be interesting to see what she wears in her everyday life and see whether this is her usual type of outfit or not.
We have a long way to go yet if someone like Mary Beard is criticised in the press for not conforming to some shit ideal of how a female presenter should look. I think there is some denial going on with some of you if you can't see that.

TooMuchRain Tue 22-Jan-13 20:34:34

Begonia, have you come across the Bechdel Test:

1. It has to have at least two [named] women in it
2. Who talk to each other
3. About something besides a man

I wouldn't seriously want to apply it because oviously there are some great guy only films (In Bruges was fab) but I find it a very useful way of thinking about how women are generally portrayed.

BegoniaBampot Tue 22-Jan-13 21:10:37

Have heard of it vaguely. I do like action, Scifi thriller type movies though so that probably makes it seem that women are few and far between. Saw TDKR and The Bourne Legacy, Lord Of The Rings recently. Men, men, men with a small dash of very attractive ladies. Women actors must get seriously pissed off. Saw Elizabeth last night, some very strong female roles but still mostly men which I'll forgive as historically they had more power and would have been more present.

BegoniaBampot Tue 22-Jan-13 21:13:31

And Ripley was my hero, loved those movies. Was so great to see a strong intelligent woman where sex and attractiveness were not important to the plot.

hopeful92 Tue 22-Jan-13 21:23:08

Mumsnet used to be somewhere you could voice an opinion without getting personal attacks and people ganging up on you. Obviously this is no longer the case.

Regardless of the context of my nickname (agreed that it is unfair to expect you to know what it means in this patricular thread), my name was still changed to "hopeless" which is indeed a personal insult. If I changed your name to something insulting I don't think you would like it very much.

Believe it or not, not all women are feminists and should be allowed to voice this opinion as much as the rest of you.

FreudiansSlipper Tue 22-Jan-13 21:31:38

hopeful I never referred to anyone dressing like a stripper I do not agree with this I said I get the point the op is making

would Rachel off countdown got the job if she was not so attractive I would like t think yes but looking at the vast majority of women presenters on tv it is unlikely they have to conform this is what I think is wrong. The women on your list are not presenters yet because of the way they look no matter what experience they have they are constantly ridiculed for how they look. You made the ugly list sadly I know these women have been called fat, ugly so on

BegoniaBampot Tue 22-Jan-13 21:33:21

I've read your posts, you were one of the worst on this thread for dishing out insults though have to admit moaning about someone changing your name to hopeless whilst you actually accidentally called yourself hopefuk was quite funny.

AnyFucker Tue 22-Jan-13 21:35:07

So, hopeful, it's ok then to cast aspersions on other people's relationships then ?

"Mumsnet used to be somewhere you could voice an opinion without getting personal attacks and people ganging up on you"

So practice what you preach. You can't complain about comments about you if you are happy to make nasty comments about others.

Also, well done on steering the subject away from valid points that you can't find an argument against.

CrumbyCrumbs Tue 22-Jan-13 22:06:27

Guys, give her a break, I think she's got frustrated 'cause no one would let her make her point. I think you both have valid point and have all been out of order dishing insults, but to call the poor girl hopeless was a tad to far.

MrsBucketxx Wed 23-Jan-13 07:43:51

It shows how very narrow minded, the feminists are when all they can do is sling insults to make a point.

Shows a lack of self control and intelligence.

Hopeful I wish you all the best, ypu will never get through to the block heads on here

Hullygully Wed 23-Jan-13 08:48:36

I agree MrsBucket!!

You know, this world can be really depressing with wars and stuff, it's nice to have a pretty girl in pretty clothes to look at and cheer us all up!!

We don't just want middle-aged men telling us all the depressing news, we need something nice to look at as well. And if we have to hear that the weather is just simply awful, I'd rather be told by a sweet young lady who's made an effort with her appearance and knows how to present her assets well, than some dried up jealous old harridan!!!!!!!

Hullygully Wed 23-Jan-13 08:50:31

I think the main problem is that older women know that no one wants them any more, no matter if they dye their hair/wear make up/go on a diet (perhaps if they have surgery!!), and they are jealous to see the young women who are desirable and remind them of what they have lost. There is nothing for them but the long wrinkled road to the grave and it makes them jealous and bitter.

CrumbyCrumbs Wed 23-Jan-13 08:54:09

I agree MrsBucket & Hullygully, I think everyone has read into her wearing nice clothes far too much. And prepares herself for vicious onslaught I kinda agree with hopeful that I think the issue here is more their perception of her outfits; its a tad judgy for op to say someone dresses like a stripper. But I also think this thread has gone personal which it isn't meant to. Why can't people share an opinion without it turning into a catfight?

HeathRobinson Wed 23-Jan-13 09:04:55

Arf, Hully.

Hullygully Wed 23-Jan-13 09:06:21

that's girls for you!

why oh why can't girls just have a discussion like men????

why oh why does it turn into bitchiness and catfighting??????

ceeveebee Wed 23-Jan-13 09:07:12

Mrsbucket did you actually mean this the way it reads:
^^If my daughter is praised for her looks good on her, she is more likely to get a better job husband whatever,
If she is educated on top of that its a double whammy^^

Seriously? Is that how you really think? Good looks will help get you a good job and 'get' a husband?
Whereas education is just a 'nice to have'?

I despair

MrsBucketxx Wed 23-Jan-13 09:08:32

grin hully

Hullygully Wed 23-Jan-13 09:08:48

It's like that Mary Beard, moaning about what people said. What did she expect with her long grey hair???? She makes no effort with her appearance at all, she could dye it, or have a stylish short cut.

Like Mrs Wormwood said in Matilda..."You chose books..."

MrsBucketxx Wed 23-Jan-13 09:09:47

How else would it be?

drjohnsonscat Wed 23-Jan-13 10:13:24

that's girls for you!

why oh why can't girls just have a discussion like men????

why oh why does it turn into bitchiness and catfighting??????

Oh my god. Is this really what you think? Do you know anything about people? Not women, not men, but people? Have you seen PMQs lately? Your attitude to women is horrible.

Hullygully Wed 23-Jan-13 10:16:58

drjohn you are proving my point there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


BegoniaBampot Wed 23-Jan-13 10:55:47

quite right, old and jealous, if they'd just quit with the nagging then men and other folk might actually listen to them.

drjohnsonscat Wed 23-Jan-13 11:04:27

Sorry but that's not bitchy. It's me disagreeing with you and finding your attitude horrible. Here's why.

You just said that women can't discuss things like men without descending into bitchiness and catfighting which is:

a) not a particularly good goal to have anyway
b) not a very good observation since on the whole, men don't manage to keep a reasonable discourse among themselves
c) not accurate

I will not stand by and let women be described like that. It's me, it's my sisters, it's my friends, it's my daughter. I don't see bitchiness and catfighting. I'm sorry that you do but perhaps that's because of the way you choose to engage ("jealous and bitter" were your words and they do not apply to any of the women I know).

Hullygully Wed 23-Jan-13 11:08:37

<whispers> drjohn, I may, just may, have been being a wee bit satirical

donburi Wed 23-Jan-13 11:32:20

I would like Rachel on Mumsnet so that we can hear it from the horse's mouth... or even a Daily Mail article responding to MN would do ....

donburi Wed 23-Jan-13 11:32:57


drjohnsonscat Wed 23-Jan-13 11:50:58

which bit was satirical? the bitter and jealous bit?

Have you been goading MrsBucket this whole time?

Hullygully Wed 23-Jan-13 11:59:50

Not goading as such, just gently pointing out the nonsense, shall we say...

gotthemoononastick Wed 23-Jan-13 11:59:51

Golly!at last i have been on a mean girl's thread! Exhilirating! Surreptitiously seeking for viperidciae...

OnwardBound Wed 23-Jan-13 12:16:01

Hully grin

It's so refreshing to see that those feminists have a sense of humour after all!

Hobbitation Wed 23-Jan-13 12:23:57

One person's slutty is another person's normal dress. If I wore what I am wearing today (skinny jeans and a jumper) in some countries I might be arrested for it. OK, an extreme example, but there are more subtle variations even in this country.

drjohnsonscat Wed 23-Jan-13 12:27:04

Oh then I am so sorry! I am mortified! You are too subtle for me. Have you considered a career as an undercover agent?

I thought I had seen your name associated with sense previously but am very bad at remembering who anyone is on here. Sorry. As you were!

Hullygully Wed 23-Jan-13 12:34:20


Did you not count the exclamation marks?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

drjohnsonscat Wed 23-Jan-13 12:41:23

I thought you were shouting blush

I am an idiot. And I don't even look good in a pink lycra tiger skin miniskirt.

Hullygully Wed 23-Jan-13 12:42:26

i bet you look well hot

MrsBethel Wed 23-Jan-13 12:56:58

She can wear what she bloody well likes. And everyone else can piss off.

Hullygully Wed 23-Jan-13 13:11:13

Of course she can.

That isn't the issue.

it's the face she is EXPECTED to wear such clothes as part of her job while men aren't.

SpicyPear Wed 23-Jan-13 13:25:15

It says a lot about some posters hully that your satirical posts were less ridiculous than the real ones.

CrumbyCrumbs Wed 23-Jan-13 14:18:37

"it's the face she is EXPECTED to wear such clothes as part of her job while men aren't."

I'm sure if you asked Nick very nicely he would be happy to wear a mini dress.. :D

And they're not expected to wear them, the bosses have spoke out saying they don't agree with some of her outfits.

Hullygully Wed 23-Jan-13 15:36:37

Is that true?


What is up with her then?

"And they're not expected to wear them, the bosses have spoke out saying they don't agree with some of her outfits."

That's the problem with singling out individuals, every circumstance is different.

It doesn't however change the fact that in general women are expected to look a certain way, especially if they want to succeed in areas like media.

SpicyPear Wed 23-Jan-13 15:50:10

I think it's bollocks. The same article (DM link below) says she goes shopping for dresses with a stylist from the show. I imagine it's a bit of Ch 4 PR in response to negative attention regarding her clothes. "Not us guv, we'd never encourage our presenters to dress like that"

LesBOFerables Wed 23-Jan-13 15:54:39

Maybe it's got something to do with getting set up for a career outside Countdown? Like the route that female children's tv presenters have often taken to break into the mainstream: sexy FHM photoshoots. The women aren't creating the demand for these images, but they know that it's the main way to garner media attention to boost their career, so they play the system. A lot of people on this thread are criticising the OP for 'judging' this woman's looks, when she is bemoaning the entire edifice which dictates that women's sexiness to men is the main way to get ahead. That is a demonstration of women's lack of real power in society, not their strength. All this phoney empowerment stuff about 'Oh, I enjoy my sexuality, I make choices blah blah" is obscuring the fact that if we were equal with men, they'd be dolling up on screen or swinging round poles too, and they ain't.

"they'd be dolling up on screen"

Totally OT and inappropriate but, oh I wish. If things could shift so men wore makeup etc on screen I'd be one happy girl.

SparkyTGD Wed 23-Jan-13 16:05:30

Me too Murder grin

Older (ahem) women need some eye candy too wink

CrumbyCrumbs Wed 23-Jan-13 17:22:41

LesBOFerables what does swinging round poles have to do with this? We're talking about wearing revealing clothing, not pole dancing! And pole dancing is actually a lovely artform when done well. I don't think the issue here is actually the one it seems, it's something entirely different.

I have never been treated in an unequal way to men.

LesBOFerables Wed 23-Jan-13 17:31:38

It's part of the rhetoric of "empowerment" that gets used by/ab

LesBOFerables Wed 23-Jan-13 17:33:09

about women. And Im not talking about art forms, I'm taking about raunch culture. Excuse typos, on phone.

AnyFucker Wed 23-Jan-13 17:35:08

Who are all these women on Mumsnet recently coming out of the woodwork to deny the existence of sexism and misogyny ?

How have they been made ? What world have they been living in ?

Hullygully Wed 23-Jan-13 17:36:19

a lovely art form when done well


nice try

PickledInAPearTree Wed 23-Jan-13 18:06:32

Horrible mental images of brucie doing Alan partridge-esque lap dance .

ProphetOfDoom Wed 23-Jan-13 18:08:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CrumbyCrumbs Wed 23-Jan-13 21:54:48

You have obviously never seen it done properly. Stop stereotyping people your so judgemental!

"pole dancing is actually a lovely artform when done well"

Don't know about an art form, but it can be incredibly impressive in terms of physical ability/strength/balance. That side of it is truly amazing. I saw some fantastic pole dancing at an exhibition once (they were modestly dressed and not doing any grinding/humping) and was in absolute awe of the talent these women had!

However, most of the time, the pole dancing you see is people basically mimicking sexual positions or getting into positions which are designed primarily to show off the genitals. Which is not something you'd be likely to see men doing.

The same could be said for gymnastics, it is a pity that we allowed every form of expressive art to be sexualised, or that people see it that way.

Many top pole dancers go on to perform with the Cirque du Soleil.

Harriet35 Thu 24-Jan-13 02:36:35

I think saying she dresses like a stripper is a bit OTT but she does dress very sexily. I think the programmers wanted to attract a younger audience. I don't see why female presenters should be ashamed of their bodies and feel like they have to cover themselves up.

Harriet35 Thu 24-Jan-13 02:38:08

Victorian men saw table legs in a sexual way. I don't think you can stop the male brain from thinking about sex, or that you'd want to.

MidnightMasquerader Thu 24-Jan-13 05:25:07

"I don't see why female presenters should be ashamed of their bodies and feel like they have to cover themselves up."

I agree with that sentiment in theory, but it doesn't pan out in practice.

When we see men rushing to present TV shows in hot pants and décolletage-plunging vests, exposing as much of their flesh as they possible can, then I'll fully agree with the sentiment.

Oddly, men are not rushing to do this... hmm

<waits for someone to trot out the 'oh, but men are so much more visual than we are' line grin>

MrsBucketxx Thu 24-Jan-13 07:36:41

Would we really want to see Nick in hot pants hhhhmmmm I think not.

Personally I wont want to see half naked men, most are average at best.

EugenesAxe Thu 24-Jan-13 07:55:52

YANBU... I always think that. She is so beautiful and could look very sexy without having to stray into the realms of 'tart'.

I always think Susie Dent looks amazing, in her beautiful, sexy, non-tart clothing and wish that Rachel could do too.
I think aesthetically a short skirt is best for Rachel, but honestly, does it have to be 6 inches or so above her knee? Why not 1 or 2?

BegoniaBampot Thu 24-Jan-13 16:22:36

caught it today. she looked lovely and much classier.maybe she's been reading mumsnet.

MaureenShit Thu 24-Jan-13 16:24:15


she looks dire

drjohnsonscat Fri 25-Jan-13 10:40:50

grin at oh but men are so much more visual than we are.

That's another unfeminist word bingo statement checked off the list grin

DontEvenThinkAboutIt Fri 25-Jan-13 14:55:19

She looks georgeous today. I love her dress and it is the right size for a change

Latara Fri 25-Jan-13 15:18:49


MrsBethel Fri 25-Jan-13 15:25:09

Some of you lot are as bad as AA Gill.

kim147 Fri 25-Jan-13 15:30:01

Did they want a female presenter for the maths section?

It's rare to see BBC Breakfast presenters wearing trousers. Except the sports one. I think there are BBC rules for what people must (or must not) wear.

As an aside, Paul Dacre (Daily Mail editor) insists women in his features section must wear a skirt or dress. No trousers.

"As an aside, Paul Dacre (Daily Mail editor) insists women in his features section must wear a skirt or dress. No trousers."

Good thing we already knew he was a twat really grin

Hobbitation Sat 26-Jan-13 14:11:53

I thought she looked fantastic on Friday, first time I'd watched in ages. I wondered if she'd read the thread as well, or her agent had. Poor Rachel.

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