To have shouted at a women in the Asda toilet

(426 Posts)
pinkmagic1 Sun 20-Jan-13 20:11:36

Was in Asda this morning getting a bit of shopping for my nan and my 8 year old ds decided he needed the loo. Sometimes he uses the mans but sometimes he prefers to come with me into the ladies. I personally don't see a problem with this, he is only 8 ffs. However there was a women in there who whilst my ds was washing his hands and after looking at him like something she had scraped off the bottom of her shoe asked me how old my ds was. I told her he is 8, she then proceeded to tell me it was terrible that I should let him use the ladies and he should be able to manage perfectly well on his own! She then made a speedy exit and I shouted after her 'mind your own business you miserable cow!' I was really shook up by the whole incident but aibu?

vigglewiggle Sun 20-Jan-13 20:16:17

I think you were unreasonable to shout abuse at someone who was just expressing an opinion. You are also being rather over-sensitive to feel "really shook up."

A screaming match in ASDA is a tad errr......... Jeremy Kyle.
But other than that YANBU, she should wind her neck in.

Rainbowinthesky Sun 20-Jan-13 20:17:17

You were perfectly reasonable up until you shouted at someone in ASDAs toilets. I wouldn't have let ds at this age use the mens toilets either .

FutTheShuckUp Sun 20-Jan-13 20:17:23

Was she cuddling groceries or doing the t-rex? If not YABVU

Cortana Sun 20-Jan-13 20:22:33

The woman was BU. It's none of her business whether or not your child can manage, she shouldn't have said anything.

However, YABU to shout at her and "I was really shook up by the whole incident", really, she spoke to you in a toilet about something that she was upset about, I don't see how this has left you shook up TBH. It's not like she pinned you against the sink.....

Unless she was drying her pubes under the hand dryer I don't see why she should be bothered so yanbu

fluffypillow Sun 20-Jan-13 20:25:20

YANBU. She was rude to comment. He's only 8, not 28! Some people should mind their own business. miserable cow.

She was being a nosey bat but I think ywbu to shout at her like that in front of your son. Not a great example to set.

addictedtolatte Sun 20-Jan-13 20:26:36

You shouldn't let small minded people bother you op. People always have unwanted advice to hand. I can't see what the problem is the woman sounds a bit odd.

Pandemoniaa Sun 20-Jan-13 20:26:51

I shouted after her 'mind your own business you miserable cow!'

The complaining woman was BU. Unfortunately, you fell straight off the moral high ground when you dealt with the situation by shouting at her abusively.

NellyBluth Sun 20-Jan-13 20:26:57

YANBU to be annoyed by her, you're right, he's only 8.

However YWBU to have shouted at her. You could have made your point without swearing.

BupcakesAndCunting Sun 20-Jan-13 20:27:12

YANBU

It has sod all to do with her. She doesn't know what your son's limits are etc. Silly cow.

I would have done the same as you

AnnoyingOrange Sun 20-Jan-13 20:28:07

8 yr olds are perfectly capable of going to the men's toilets. They've been at school for at least 3 yrs and manage there

fourfingerkitkat Sun 20-Jan-13 20:29:02

YANBU. I once got into an argument with an OAP about using the baby change facility in a disabled toilet (the OAP had a walking stick). She seemed to overlook the baby change sign on the door and gave me a mouthful about taking my 3yr old into the toilet. I was having a bad day and let rip with a mouthful. Not proud and probably an over reaction on my part but she might think twice before hassling mothers with young children again.

There was an incident in Glasgow a few months ago when a young child was sexually assaulted in the toilets of an Asda not far from where we live. There is no way I would allow my kids to go into the public loos alone.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 20-Jan-13 20:29:37

At 8 he is old enough to go to the toilet on his own,really,preferences aside.

Ywbu to shout at her. You could have just as easily completely ignored her.

akaemmafrost Sun 20-Jan-13 20:29:56

I probably wouldn't have called her any names but most certainly would have told her to mind her own business.

Sirzy Sun 20-Jan-13 20:29:59

YABU to have shouted.

And surely if he can go into the gents sometimes he can do it all the time? At what point do you stop him choosing?

Flojobunny Sun 20-Jan-13 20:31:13

YANBU
I would have done exactly the same thing and then spent the rest of my shopping trip and drive home thinking about what I should have said!

pinkmagic1 Sun 20-Jan-13 20:31:17

She was drying one hand under each dryer which I did think was slightly odd. I do not normally react like this at all but she was especially aggressive in her manner not just expesing an opinion if you know what I mean.

akaemmafrost Sun 20-Jan-13 20:32:13

I think it's up to a parent to judge if their 8 year old is able to go to the toilets alone. It is not a hard and fast rule imo.

Fakebook Sun 20-Jan-13 20:33:05

Why not just stick your middle finger up at her as she was speaking, accompanied by a bored looking death stare? That would've scared the shit out of her. No need to shout.

FabulousFreaks Sun 20-Jan-13 20:33:36

YANBu I hope she heard you

RuleBritannia Sun 20-Jan-13 20:33:38

I disagree with some of you. This is certainly a Jeremy Kyle sort of matter.

(a) The boy is 8! Not 8 or 18 months. He should be able to manage on his own. We took our 4 year old grandson to a farm park and he went to the men's washroom by himself.
(b) The woman was concerned to see a male who might be interested in what goes on in a ladies' washroom who might have seen something untoward so it was her business
(c) The OP shouted at her - in public - JK there for you
(d) The OP said that she was 'shook up'. Anyone else would have said that she was 'shaken up'. More JK.

Sorry, I'm with the other woman on this one.

LifeofPo Sun 20-Jan-13 20:33:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 20-Jan-13 20:34:34

If she was being particularly aggressive then you definitely should have ignored her. Giving aggressive strangers a mouthful can be a recipe for more of the same or worse.

Fakebook Sun 20-Jan-13 20:35:03

Oh and I wouldn't let my children go into public toilets alone at that age. You hear all sorts these days. Wasn't a 5 year old molested in the toilets at an ASDA a few months ago?

Flojobunny Sun 20-Jan-13 20:35:03

It's not about whether an 8 year old is capable of using a toilet. It's about not knowing whether there are any strange men lurking in the public toilets.
How can anyone compare to school. Ridiculous. Does no one watch the news?
Young child in Asda Glasgow?
Older child in Debenhams?

LifeofPo Sun 20-Jan-13 20:35:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Gumby Sun 20-Jan-13 20:35:47

fourfingerkitkat

I really hope you had a baby to change and not just a 3 year old who could have used a toilet in the ladies

WaynettaSlobsLover Sun 20-Jan-13 20:35:52

IMO you shouldn't be letting an eight year old boy in the ladies. It's not like he's five where personally I wouldn't see it as an issue. Kids are a lot more mature these days too and if your son is a bit taller than average then people might think he is older for example. Neither of you should have shouted or said something in a rude manner. Yab slightly u.

Sirzy Sun 20-Jan-13 20:36:41

So flojo should nobody ever go to the toilet alone then incase they are one of the extremely rare cases? I watch the news daily and if you were put off doing things because of what was on the news then we would all need to be wrapped in bubble wrap.

BupcakesAndCunting Sun 20-Jan-13 20:36:59

"The boy is 8! Not 8 or 18 months. He should be able to manage on his own. We took our 4 year old grandson to a farm park and he went to the men's washroom by himself."

Bully for you hmm

fourfingerkitkat Sun 20-Jan-13 20:37:28

RuleBritannia

YABU to allow your 4 yr old grandson to use a public toilet on his own. Just my opinion....Even if he is confident and able. The incident referred to in my above post gives my reasons for thinking this.

And your reference to poor grammar is just you being a f**ny really, isn't it....

VivaLeBeaver Sun 20-Jan-13 20:38:11

I've never had a boy but if I did I'd probably take an 8yo to the loo with me. Look what happened to that boy in the toilets in debenhams in Manchester last year. Unlikely to happen but it does.

In womens toilets everyone's in a cubicle. It's not like he's peering under the doors. All he's going to see is women washing their hands. Shock! Horror!

LittleChimneyDroppings Sun 20-Jan-13 20:38:25

You shouldn't have shouted at her and called her names.

akaemmafrost Sun 20-Jan-13 20:38:36

I live in west London, their are certainly some dodgy types where I live and I would not be happy to allow ds who is almost 10 to go to into the public mens toilets around here alone. In our local McDonalds I have seen drug users being turfed out of the loos. At our local park right next to the park used to be public toilets that were frequented by drug dealers and ex H actually called the police once as they were doing it so openly in front of the children in the park. They've been pulled down now so prolific was the problem.

It's totally a judgement call. Oh and I live in a vair naice area of West London too.

chicaguapa Sun 20-Jan-13 20:39:41

YANBU. I haven't let DS(8) go into a public toilet alone since I saw the story about the two little boys in the McDonald's toilet. sad

fourfingerkitkat Sun 20-Jan-13 20:39:52

Gumby I had a 3yr old boy who had been holding his poo in for 5 days (major problems toilet training him) and he was literally in the process of shitting himself...Ran to the ladies first which had a queue out the door, so ran to the disabled toilet as a last resort to change him into a nappy.

Bobyan Sun 20-Jan-13 20:40:28

I think you were positively restrained

The world is unfortunately inhabited by some very strange people (she sounds like one of them), shouting may not have been the best course of action, but reading some of the frankly ridiculous responses on this thread, good for you.

Cantbelieveitsnotbutter Sun 20-Jan-13 20:41:00

A young boy was recently sexually assulted In a McDonald's men's toilet whilst his mum waited outside the men's loos for him.
Your right, not sure you got your point across in the best way. But it's none of her business, its not like it meant she had to wait

pinkmagic1 Sun 20-Jan-13 20:42:06

So I am a JK case because I shop in Asda and because I made a slight mistake in my grammar? Not everyone can afford Waitrose sadly!

Gumby Sun 20-Jan-13 20:43:00

Well let's hope the woman with a stick wasn't in a similar predicament

BupcakesAndCunting Sun 20-Jan-13 20:43:17

What actually IS the problem with an 8 year old using the women's bogs? It's not like we women walk around with our fanjos out inside the toilet compound. What is he going to see? Some ladies handwashing? Racy.

wonderingsoul Sun 20-Jan-13 20:43:59

I wouldn't have shouted.. I much prefer a stern look in to the eyes and a calm 'you have no information on my son so I would consider it wise to keep your thoughts to your self '

much more effect.

fir what it's worth. my eldest is 7 and still goes into the lady's. with me and sometimes on his own. say if we are in a cafe he'll go by him self.

there is many story's andbi have appearance with touching and rude comments from chilsrenbuaing men's toilets on their own. yes it could happen in the woman's BUT statistically it's a lot lower. I'm a single mum. I have males .to take him to the men's so screw what other people think or feel when a young child is in the womana all I'm doing is trying to limit opportunitys for bad things to happen.

fourfingerkitkat Sun 20-Jan-13 20:44:09

pinkmagic1....did you feed your kids a Greggs sausage roll on the way home ? No ? You can breathe a sigh of relief then, not quite JK standards yet wink

Flojobunny Sun 20-Jan-13 20:44:58

Sirzy I'm not suggesting anyone should wrap their child in bubble wrap, merely when there is a simple safer option then use it.

VivaLeBeaver Sun 20-Jan-13 20:45:38

I was at a national trust property today which I've visited since I was a child. About 25 years ago when I was young a girl who was about 9yo was raped in the toilets there. So badly that she needed surgery, this was on a busy sunny weekend.

I'm to normally one for paedo hysteria at all. Dd has a lot of freedom and goes into town on her own, etc at 11yo. But if I'm with her I accompany her to the loo when we were shopping.

I think it's up to the parent to decide if their child is old enough to go on their own.

I don't see the big deal about toilets though, quite a few are communal now. I do see a big deal with changing rooms - I don't want boys older than about 8 in there.

akaemmafrost Sun 20-Jan-13 20:49:02

But many swimming changing rooms are communal aren't they? Certainly at public swimming pools. Family rooms. With cubicles.

addictedtolatte Sun 20-Jan-13 20:49:24

Bupcakes that's what I was thinking. Last time I went ladies toilets I saw someone put lipstick on. What a shocker

Flojobunny Sun 20-Jan-13 20:50:57

lauries I know what you mean but if you are swimming with an 8 year old boy what do you do?
Luckily I don't have this problem because DS (7yo) can't swim but if he did I would be quite worried about him alone.

BupcakesAndCunting Sun 20-Jan-13 20:51:41

Honestly, I cannot get myself riled up about this (males in female bogs)

I wouldn't even give a shit if an adult male had reason to enter the hallowed bog compound of wimmin.

quoteunquote Sun 20-Jan-13 20:52:00

OP, next time, say,

"Good point, now will you go into the gents and check they are safe?"
No?
Now do you, see my dilemma?

Why would you send a 4 year old into the toilet on their own?

And what on earth do you think there is for an 8 year old to see or even want to look at in the women's toilet?

Flojobunny Sun 20-Jan-13 20:52:38

My local pool isn't communal.

Osmiornica Sun 20-Jan-13 20:52:54

Y were BU and rude. There's no need to shout at people like that.

Why would you send a 4 year old into the toilet on their own?

And what on earth do you think there is for an 8 year old to see or even want to look at in the women's toilet?

wonderingsoul Sun 20-Jan-13 20:55:50

I would say it's a lot more common then is reported tbh.

when I was 8 we had gone to a family fun day and i was looking after a 4 year old boy. he said he needed the loo so I took him to the males and waited by the door. which was open. I heard a man say to him 'do you need a hand there little man ' thankfully he said no but even at 8 I knew it was wrong walked in and took him hand and left with him quite shook up and confused .

it has stayed with me so I won't be allowing my two boys to use the males alone till 9 maybe 10 where I'm confident he will shout or what not

YANBU

I'd not let an 8 year old go in to public loo by himself, statistics list it as the second most likely place for a child to be molested (sadly home is top). Why risk it?

FFS what is he going to see? Are there she wees in asda? (Never dared wee there!). Doesn't carelessgranny or whatever her name is (let 4 year old DGS piss by himself) shut the cubicle door when she pisses?

MrsMushroom Sun 20-Jan-13 21:00:49

You will all tear out one another's throats before you will agree.

Live and let live ffs..

I wouldn't let an 8 year old boy into the male toilets alone personally but if someone else think that's ok...fine....but don't imagine you will ever make those who feel it's NOT fine bad about their choice.

I have no sons but no way would my 8 year old be alone in the mens room.

The women's toilet is the toilet...nobody has their boobs or vagina out!

thezebrawearspurple Sun 20-Jan-13 21:01:20

yabu to shout at a stranger. Learn to express yourself before you target the wrong person with that silly behaviour.

mysticsash Sun 20-Jan-13 21:01:53

yes YUABU.

and it all seems a bit jeremey kyle/ that is life ish

have some class

fourfingerkitkat Sun 20-Jan-13 21:02:39

Gumby I'll never know if the OAP in question was in the same situation as she did not give me a second to explain. As I opened the door and was about to apologise for taking so long, she became very argumentative with me. And I was changing him into a nappy so had every bloody right to be using the disabled/baby change toilet.

MrsMushroom Sun 20-Jan-13 21:02:59

As a Mother, I would FAR rather share the toilets with boys who are too young to go to the men's alone than have ANY child at risk.

I don't care if it;s a tiny risk. Even that's too much.

LetsFaceTheMusicAndDance Sun 20-Jan-13 21:04:32

She was being unreasonable. She knew nothing about your son and was assuming he was without additional needs. Most are, but many aren't.

Until my boys were old enough so that I could trust them to shout loud if there was a problem, I didn't let them use the men's loos alone. It was handy that there were 2 of them and that my eldest was a big and sensible lad but my middle son had difficulties which meant he was a lot older before I allowed him to use the men's alone. I often set the older boy in with him.

And if I'd told DS2 to use the disabled loos, there would have been plenty of flack for that as his difficulties weren't immediately apparent.

But you were unreasonable to behave in that way, especially in front of your child.

vigglewiggle Sun 20-Jan-13 21:04:44

babies Where did you get your statistics from, out of interest?

mysticsash Sun 20-Jan-13 21:04:45

yes YUABU.

and it all seems a bit jeremey kyle/ that is life ish

have some class

discorabbit Sun 20-Jan-13 21:06:44

babies do you have a source for your hysterical scaremongering post?

i really don't have a problem with kids in toilets, over 12 boys would probably raise my eyebrows but i don't see why we need segregating re public loos anyway. in europe don't they have unisex loos?

MrsMushroom Sun 20-Jan-13 21:07:13

Mystic you have to know it to recognise it.

cheesesarnie Sun 20-Jan-13 21:13:35

not unreasonable to take ds in but yvbu by shouting. bit of an overreaction.

ds1 is 11 and has shy bladder syndrome which makes trips out hell. he can sometimes go if he has someone with him and there's a cubicle but obviously at 11 it's not really good for him or others if he goes in the ladies. if he did need to go in the ladies id shout to make sure it was ok to take him in and explain if anyone came in while we were in there. i wouldnt shout at someones opinion.

Guendaline Sun 20-Jan-13 21:15:24

OP you were not unreasonable. It's ridiculous to get uptight about an 8-year-old boy being in the ladies (would be different if it was a changing room IMO). I don't blame you for shouting at her, she sounded very rude and her comments were clearly inflammatory. Yes in an ideal world you could have shrugged it off but heyho no one is perfect!
Having said that, why on earth can't he go in the men's? I don't get this thing about paedos in public toilets, surely there must be things that ate for more risky that he does on a regular basis?

everlong Sun 20-Jan-13 21:18:50

I'd have said the same or worse

mathanxiety Sun 20-Jan-13 21:19:23

She didn't deserve your attention. It's up to a parent to decide about safety when it comes to public toilets. She didn't know your DS or you or anything about you and she certainly had no right to assume she could dictate to you where your DS used the loo. Shouting back never makes you feel as good as you hope it will though.

Wrt the age thing -- 8 is sort of a grey area. 9 less so and by age 10 I would definitely hope a boy would be going to the men's. I know swimming pools often have a 7 and up use the gender appropriate changing room and I personally had no problem sending DS into the men's changing room or loos on his own when we were out. But every parent knows their own boy.

Katla Sun 20-Jan-13 21:22:51

YANBU, opinionated woman should keep her opinions to herself.

In M&S at Christmastime, an elderly man said 'bloody buggies' at me in the foodhall, I was too taken aback to say anything but my dear brother said 'F off you pish stained old bastard' which made me feel much better grin Not that I normally tolerate verbal abuse of the elderly unless they are rude to me first

RandallPinkFloyd Sun 20-Jan-13 21:28:53

Erm, admittedly I've only skimmed the thread but what exactly was the child going to see?

Do those of you who object to an 8 year old boy standing outside the door while you piss go out and wash your fanny in the sink afterwards?

I'm genuinely confused. I tend to leave my pants on til I close the cubicle door then fasten them back up again before I open it. Am I doing it wrong?

Unless he was commando crawling along the floor and looking under the stalls I think it's probably ok.

NothingIsAsBadAsItSeems Sun 20-Jan-13 21:30:20

YABU if your ds can use the loo, flush, wash and dry his own hands and then wait for you in your chosen 'wait here when you're done spot'

YANBU if he still needs help though I would be thinking why not use the disabled loo since there would be more room

fourfingerkitkat Sun 20-Jan-13 21:32:46

Katla...probably shouldn't have laughed at your comment but I did...

Was discussing this thread with my OH. He was in the loos today with DS and said there were 2 wee girls aged about 6 or 7 standing there whilst their Dad and other men used the urinals....At least in the ladies everyone is in a cubicle as others have mentioned

Guendaline Sun 20-Jan-13 21:34:19

No way kitkat that's gross!!shock

Catchingmockingbirds Sun 20-Jan-13 21:35:50

It's not just child abusers that are a risk for a 4 year old going to a public toilet by himself. There's being locked in a cubicle with a dodgy lock, getting stuck with his belt/trousers/zip and not being able to ask for help, hurting himself with a scalding hot tap, not being able to open a heavy door on his own, and then the risks with drugs/drug paraphanelia found on the toilet floor that the 4 year old could pick up.

fourfingerkitkat Sun 20-Jan-13 21:35:58

Yes, honestly. Maybe they're just a very open minded family. God knows....

BacardiNCoke Sun 20-Jan-13 21:38:17

Have you noticed it's only very "Jeremy Kyle" because it's in Asda. hmm

OP YANBU.

Catchingmockingbirds Sun 20-Jan-13 21:38:23

OP you're not BU.

And this is why I don't shop in Asda.

runs

tigerdriverII Sun 20-Jan-13 21:39:39

YABU. Shopping at ASDA?

SuzysZoo Sun 20-Jan-13 21:41:03

If someone offers me "advice" like this I just nod and say "you're quite right, I agree". Tends to take the wind out of their sails and there is not much more that they can say..........
I still take my son into the ladies with me sometimes, and he's 10!

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Jan-13 21:42:42

She voiced her opinion, you insulted her.

Chottie Sun 20-Jan-13 21:43:00

At my local gym Nuffi*lds, there is a sign in the women's changing room saying that boys over 7 are not allowed in the women's changing room. There is a comparable sign about 7 year old girls in the men's changing room.

My son used to use the men's toilets at 8, but I must admit that I used to lurk outside the men's loos and clock the men going in smile

fourfingerkitkat Sun 20-Jan-13 21:43:37

I've actually started responding like that SuzysZoo. I now greet cheeky remarks and rude people with the biggest grin I can manage. Completely throws them and they don't know how to respond or maybe they just think I'm crazy

Footface Sun 20-Jan-13 21:43:54

Yanbu,

I really dread my ds's growing up and the whole toilet issues.

Do woman really think that boys are not embarrassed by going in the ladies without feeling judged aswell

What is it that you dread about 'the toilet issue' Foot?

dixiechick1975 Sun 20-Jan-13 21:49:40

Our Morrisons has a sign on the toilet door saying accompanied children of either sex under age 8 are allowed to use the ladies - not sure if gents has the same sign.

It was a proper sign not handwritten - I guess there must have been some complaints re older children in the toilets.

Picturesinthefirelight Sun 20-Jan-13 21:50:33

Last week I reluctantly let ds go to the toilet himself in Asa as he insisted he didn;t want to come into the ladies with me. The taps are hard to operate and the doors are heavy.

As I cam out of the ladies I heard ds talking to a man. He hadn't been able to open the heavy door so this man had helped him (no problem). However he was then trying to persuade ds to go and wait for me in the cafe rather than staying where he was. Luckily ds knew not to move.

The man then proceeded to follow us both out of the shop telling me that I should have given him money for the cafe. It was really creepy.

So YANBU

DonderandBlitzen Sun 20-Jan-13 21:51:44

I think the other woman was unreasonable. It is totally up to the parent whether they are comfortable with their son using the men's loo. Absolutely none of her business and she should have kept quiet.

Karoleann Sun 20-Jan-13 21:56:24

I think 8 is too old to go into the ladies loos, I'm not overly happy with my 6 year old going in them. Unless we're in somewhere dodgy I usually get him to go to the mens. I think that women is right.
Incidentally we have a similar problem in our gym, parents think its acceptable for over 7's to go into the women's changing rooms. You would be having a huge arguement with me if you brought your son in. - the rules are no over 7.

countrykitten Sun 20-Jan-13 21:58:47

I think that 8 is old enough to use the loo by himself. I also think the OP was rude and abusive and the whole thing reminds me of JK.

Glad I don't shop at Asda if this is what it is like.

aquashiv Sun 20-Jan-13 21:58:54

Are you sure he didnt leave the seat up or piddle on it perhaps?

We all loose our cool don't worry about it Op.

shallweshop Sun 20-Jan-13 21:58:55

Bloody hell the kid is only 8 - why would a woman be concerned about him being in a ladies loo - how buttoned up is that??? What the hell is the lad likely to see? In loads of countries they have unisex loos. Sod the 'she was just expressing her opinion' malarkey, I would have shouted at her too.

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 20-Jan-13 22:01:02

Dixie.

Those signs usually say please do not allow children under 8 to use the toilets unsupervised.

Saying they can be accompanied is a polite way of saying they shouldn't be unaccompanied

fourfingerkitkat Sun 20-Jan-13 22:02:11

Changing room are completely different though, aren't they ? You would be getting undressed....as another MNetter so eloquently put it somewhere above, unless you are coming out of the cubicle with your pants at your ankles and washing your fanjo in the sink, what is the problem ? You're in a cubicle, nothing for the 8yr old to see !

countrykitten Sun 20-Jan-13 22:02:54

And katla what your brother said is vile - fighting rudeness with obscenity and ignorance is pointless and sad.

Read this, thought about it and changed my mind about 5 times! You were probably BU to shout at her but by making a swift exit it's fair to say she was a busy body only interested in her own opinion & not hanging around to hear your view/apology/round of f's. Are you BU to take an 8 year old into the ladies with you? Possibly. The more I think about it though is it not a case of just wanting to protect your kids for as long as possible? Yes they've been using the loo at school on their own since they were wee (npi) but in a safe environment without the potential of lurkers & weirdies peering over their shoulder or worse.
This parenting lark is a minefield.
For sure let it go though & don't be worrying about it.

fourfingerkitkat Sun 20-Jan-13 22:04:17

FFS...think I'll start a thread asking if IABU for shopping in ASDA...

shallweshop Sun 20-Jan-13 22:05:06

For those who think it is so wrong for a kid to go with his mum to the ladies loo - why??? We go behind closed doors, just like most of us do in our own homes but we have to wash our hands in public - just really don't understand the issue!

RandallPinkFloyd Sun 20-Jan-13 22:09:57

Glad I don't shop at Asda if this is what it is like

Yes, every Asda is full of weird people arguing in toilets hmm

It's a bloody supermarket same as all the others, have you never been in one before? Does Jeeves normally bring your consumables in through the servant's entrance?

BegoniaBampot Sun 20-Jan-13 22:10:26

my sons are young and often use the mens loos, also understand the worry about possible abuse or problems so doesn't bother me if boys use the.ladies. regards changing rooms my 7 yr old asked yo use the mens changing room in our gym as he was a big boy, he felt really uncomfortable and intimidated as it's all open showers and changing. back to the ladies for him.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 20-Jan-13 22:13:25

NO WAY is it unreasonable to take a pre-pubescent child into the loo, fgs. what's he going to see there? some cludgie doors and a few women primping themselves at the sinks? what possible harm can it do to either party.

and no, not great to shout after someone, but probably it was because you couldn't think of what to say while she was still standing in front of you. i tend to rely on ' you're a bit weird, aren't you?'

whateveritakes Sun 20-Jan-13 22:15:55

I think it's reasonable to for an 8 year old to use the ladies in a busy supermarket. It's used by all types of people and I wouldn't feel happy especially as ASDA is massive.

I would certainly let a 8 year old use the gents in a family type park, swimming pool or other places with children and he would feel safe using them.

Context is key here. i think shouting is fine actually as perhaps she then twigged that all sorts of undesirables might be in the loo's!

EverybodysSnowyEyed Sun 20-Jan-13 22:17:37

I am really interested to know what people think a pre-pubescent boy is going to do in the Ladies that is so shocking? Especially as he was accompanied by his mum.

easterbaby Sun 20-Jan-13 22:19:49

I wouldn't have a problem with your son using the ladies' loos if I was there. In fact, a story like this - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-20772499 - would make me think twice about letting my own young son use the men's loos by himself.

chuzzlewit Sun 20-Jan-13 22:21:59

Not unreasonable to suggest politely that it was none of her business.

Totally unacceptable to shout at her and call her a miserable cow.

countrykitten Sun 20-Jan-13 22:22:45

Actually I have been in an Asda before now that I come to think of it. I didn't stay long enough to find out if there are always people screaming obscenities at each other in the loos.

neveronamonday Sun 20-Jan-13 22:24:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

heidihole Sun 20-Jan-13 22:24:54

YABU to shout mind your own business you miserable cow especially in front of your son. Cant imagine ever hearing my mum shout that!!

So he now thinks thats acceptable language to shout at a stranger in a shop? He'll be turning into one of those teens then... hmm

Katia

"bloody buggies" does NOT merit "F off you pish stained old bastard"

Maybe he'd tripped over a buggy (especially in a busy supermarket)
Maybe he'd just had the straw that broke the camels back- as I'm sure we all do.

Would your brother call a child "pish stained" - no
Even if he was doubly incontinent, it's not a subject for "amusing" retritubtion

shallweshop Sun 20-Jan-13 22:28:45

Heidihole - really????

flossy101 Sun 20-Jan-13 22:29:16

I don't think you were unreasonable. Like you say he's only 8 and it was non of her business.

countrykitten Sun 20-Jan-13 22:31:29

I cannot ever imagine speaking to anyone in this way - there are some pretty 'hard faced' types out there I suppose but I would hate to have witnessed this. My sympathy would have been with the old lady not for the brash and mouthy OP. Great example to your poor son btw.

countrykitten Sun 20-Jan-13 22:33:47

And my sympathy would also be for the old man in katla's post. I actually found that really shocking and more so that another poster found it funny. Is this really the way that we should be conducting ourselves?

NothingIsAsBadAsItSeems Sun 20-Jan-13 22:34:53

For those who think it is so wrong for a kid to go with his mum to the ladies loo - why???

- Wee on the seats and floor/inability to flush the toilet - I understand that small children of both genders as well as adults also do this but a responsible adult will clean up their/their childs mess. It's no fun for the next person in the queue to have to clean the toilet seat and put a load of loo roll on the floor so they don't have to stand in it <boak>

- There are bigger queues in the womens loo so why add to it. Assuming that you don't go in the same cubical at the same time

- They (and most other children and some adults) partially block access to the sinks/dryers as well as the entrance/exit

- Why can't you take them into the gents loo - You're not concerned about what they see in the womens and you won't see anything new in the gents

- Women are no safer around your dc then men... Not every man wants to perv on your child

- Whispers... They might here gossip unsuited to boys

I fully expect the reasons stated for not wanting older boys in the ladies to be laughed at, there are more reasons but I really don't see why they should be in there smile

KhallDrogo Sun 20-Jan-13 22:38:18

why cant 8 year old boys go to the toilet by themselves? confused

I don't think you would see an 8 year old girl going into the men's if she was out with her dad confused

neveronamonday Sun 20-Jan-13 22:38:47

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CrapBag Sun 20-Jan-13 22:40:46

YANBU. I won't be letting DS use public toilets alone at age 8. Comparing them to school toilets is ridiculous.

BupcakesAndCunting Sun 20-Jan-13 22:41:38

Only expressing an opinion?! What a lot of bolleaux.

Yes you may voice your opinion but then you do invite the party on the blunt end if your opinion to answer back.

I've challenged some pretty objectionable opinion s in my time, usually to do with race/homosexuality. Not comparable to this I know but are we really never allowed to challenge opinions?

500internalerror Sun 20-Jan-13 22:42:13

I bit the bullet & let ds use the gents for the first time aged 8. I couldn't hear him because of the 'foyer' area created by 2 sets of doors. He got stuck in the cubicle & was too terrified to yell for help. I dithered for a while after I thought he'd been too long. But I still wouldn't let him go in the gents of a large or busy place; it made me realise that anything can happen. Plus, even secondary schools now have communal toilets - what's the big deal?

Katla Sun 20-Jan-13 22:42:54

I'd be too scared to say anything offensive to anyone in case they punched me or something. I'd perhaps say stuff like 'how rude', 'mind your own business' or 'thank you for your views' - that would be ok I'd think as not great to resort to personal insults. Better to keep moral high ground and ignore.

NothingIsasBad would you go into a mens loo?
I did once accidently
Disclaimer: I was 2 weeks before giving birth, bladder like a thimble.
Dashed in, saw two men standing confused Oh, there's only two cubicles.
The men got the frights of their lives !

CharlW1 Sun 20-Jan-13 22:44:55

I don't blame OP at all and would react the same way. Everyone is saying what a great example she set using that language in front of her son but what a bout having to witness a nosy old bat speaking aggressively to your Mom like that!

LineRunner Sun 20-Jan-13 22:45:18

You go for it, OP. A woman who minds a junior school aged boy in a public toilet is being very unhelpful.

Shouting after her? Well, she started on you first. Probably you should have left it, but you didn't - but don't sweat it. Next time, if there is one, just say, 'I don't feel comfortable about the alternative arrangements.' And then shut down.

PriscillaLydiaSellon Sun 20-Jan-13 22:47:37

YABU to shout at anyone. All you would have done is confirm in her mind that your behaviour generally left a lot to be desired. Had you merely smiled and nodded and closed your ears to her comments, she would have been in the wrong. As it is, you are completely in the wrong instead. And your child has learnt that it's okay to shout at people who are silly. confused

I've let my DS go to the mens since he was old enough to want to but chose carefully.
Like I wouldn't let him go at a busy service station till he was older (can't remember exact age)
But the rule was -in, pee, wash hands, talk to no-one.

And when he did have to go at a service station I stood by the door enterance (like a right pervert) looking at the men.
If he'd have shouted, I'd have been in there. blush

RandallPinkFloyd Sun 20-Jan-13 22:49:18

countrykitten, are you by any chance the Duchess of Kent?

NothingIsAsBadAsItSeems Sun 20-Jan-13 22:50:13

70isa yep, there is no point queuing for ages with a young child when there are gender appropriate, queue free toilets available for him to use with a bit of help. Just knock and say woman coming in smile

sukysue Sun 20-Jan-13 22:52:02

Don't take any notice of the miserable old bat . Honestly nothing wrong in what you and he did .

BupcakesAndCunting Sun 20-Jan-13 22:55:10

Lol at piss in the seat being a reason for no boys in toilets.

Old women are the worst for piss dribbles on loo seats, fact.

Actually, there was a dad with his young DD in the womans toilet at our cinema.

And none of us thought it was weird (or no one said anything) grin

My DS used to go into the mens changing room at the Gym when he was 6-7 yo (for his karate). There were all ages (they don't allow over 8yo in womans change room). Men, like the women were in states of undress/nakedness.
He must've spent lots of time looking because he told me what the various men looked like
"He's got a tattoo Mummy" "And that man with the shaved head has got..."

I don't want to know. grin (blocks ears)

SucksToBeMe Sun 20-Jan-13 22:58:57

I can totally back up Bupcakes comment about old ladies dribbling on seats! grin

LineRunner Sun 20-Jan-13 23:02:22

There were men with little girls and there were boys in the Vue cinema Laidies' Toilets after Les Mis at the weekend but we were all crying too juch to care.

Touchmybum Sun 20-Jan-13 23:02:37

or Marks and Spencer!!

The child wasn't doing her any harm. YANBU. Probably wasn't the cleverest idea in the world to shout at her, but I think most of us would be incensed in the heat of the moment.

It's not about the child being able to manage in the toilet; it's about the child going into men's toilets unsupervised anyway.

KhallDrogo Sun 20-Jan-13 23:09:32

linerunner grin

so boys and girls and mums and dads use the ladies?!?!

does anyone use the men's? whats wrong with the men's toilets?

(disclaimer: I don't care where children go to the toilet really. I don't really like adult men in the ladies toilets. And I think boy children are more mollycoddled than girl children)

sunnyday123 Sun 20-Jan-13 23:22:01

Not read all thread but its not about being old enough to go the toilet in school etc. this is a public toilet where any wierdos could be! I think of that poor boy age 7 who went the toilet and got raped in McDonald's. how awful. You don't know who is in public toilets. My dd is 7 and would never let her go in public toilets alone without checking who is in there first. Too dodgy these days. So op, I agree with you!

Narked Sun 20-Jan-13 23:24:31

'mind your own business you miserable cow'

Did you mean to make yourself sound like trash?

LolaDontCryOverSpiltEggnog Sun 20-Jan-13 23:25:54

When i read the thread title i thought about the time i went into the women's toilet at Asda
sat on the toilet listening to the straining and various ''ooohs and humphs' coming from the toilet next door and when i met that lady at the sinks she was topless but a bra sweating like a pig on a jog and washing her armpits with the hand soap.

I had to stand next to her and wash my hands, i have never concentrated on a plughole so much.

Thought it may have been her again.

Since then i always wash my fanny in the sink and style my pubes under the hand dryers though.

LineRunner Sun 20-Jan-13 23:28:18

Asda

Where dreams may be

LolaDontCryOverSpiltEggnog Sun 20-Jan-13 23:29:51

Narked You will have nothing to say if OP just says ''yes Narked. yes i did''

grin

janji Sun 20-Jan-13 23:34:48

I never understand the outrage of some women who take great offence at boys using female toilets if they would otherwise have to use the gents unaccompanied. It's a sad reflection on society today, but many paedofiles purposely stalk out public conveniences,(I work with children and have known some harrowing cases so am probably too aware/worried), and for this risk alone, I never hesitate to take my 9 yr old ds into the ladies with me if needs be. What do these outraged women think he will see/do?!!

hopkinette Sun 20-Jan-13 23:35:05

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

twentythirteen Sun 20-Jan-13 23:38:22

It was none of her business, and it was rude of toy to call her names. You should both apologise and make nice.

The answer I give is "Yeah, thanks for that" but with not a hiny of thanks.

Works a treat.
Especially if you can add a "Lady" into the mix but like a New York Traffic Cop to make it sound like an insult grin

hiny - hint (hinny is a donkey or a mule IIRC)

AgnesBligg Sun 20-Jan-13 23:55:41

I have used loos in all sorts of unseemly places. Never once have a spotted an irksome vagina through a cubicle door or a lady bottom inappropriately placed. What did she think he would encounter in there?

yanbu. Hope your shout made it all better for you both.

I can't say that I can see a problem with an 8 year old boy using the ladies toilets. If it had been a family outing then his father (or other responsible male) could have taken him to the mens toilets.

Last time went to the toilets in Asda, a woman walked into the next cubicle whilst still talking to someone on her mobile. I was really tempted to make some theatrical groans and emulate violent bodily functions, but managed to restrain myself.

cfc Mon 21-Jan-13 05:33:53

The only shouty incident I've ever had was in my local Waitrose...just sayin'.

I am so trashy. Fact.

DizzyZebra Mon 21-Jan-13 05:36:17

Shool up is just being ridiculous.

Id have told her to mind her own business too. Then laughed and forgotten it.

FellatioNels0n Mon 21-Jan-13 05:37:48

You sound like the reason I hate Asda. The customers. They are appalling.

DizzyZebra Mon 21-Jan-13 05:49:08

The snobbish comments about asda are pathetic. Some of you need to either grow up, or take your comments back to the schoolyard where they belong. I have not heard such petty sniping since my school days when anyone who didn't wear the latest brand fad was 'gay'.

And you people are raising the next generation too? Oh joy.

ripsishere Mon 21-Jan-13 05:50:20

OOOHHHH, I love Asda.
i had a minor disagreement with a shop assistant a couple of weeks ago. She was trying to tell me that a dress by George was designer.
TBF to her, it was in a shop in Malaysia, but still.
The last time I took DD to the loo in our local Asda, she shouted at the top of her voice 'Mum, some dirty character has done a turd on the floor'.

complexnumber Mon 21-Jan-13 05:55:12

So, you were all shook up, were you also itching like a man up a fuzzy tree, or possibly wild as a bug?

Just asking.

Oh but ripishire George is a designer grin. D'you not remember all the hype when he got on board Asda.
Designer clothes at supermarket prices. wink

Sainsbury has Gok Wan sad (I'm so funky and I lost shedloads of weight, but I'm still going to dress you like a sack of spuds in a paint factory explosion)

Arf@ your DD and the dirty character. (So much classier than ^filthy bastard^)

melika Mon 21-Jan-13 08:03:17

As a mom to two boys, you have my sympathy and have been in this situation a few times. No one has ever said anything to me.

I would have quietly said 'so you've not heard of Jimmy Saville then?'

fourfingerkitkat Mon 21-Jan-13 08:13:20

complexnumber grin

CharlW1 Mon 21-Jan-13 08:19:34

Well said Dizzy - I thought exactly the same. The snobbery about Asda on this thread is so childish - I wonder if some of the people saying it's like JK would be saying that if it happened at an M&S foodhall or Waitrose!

VivaLeBeaver Mon 21-Jan-13 08:21:18

I use men's toilets if there's a massive queue for the ladies. grin

vigglewiggle Mon 21-Jan-13 09:08:17

complexnumber grin

RandallPinkFloyd Mon 21-Jan-13 09:09:00

For some bizarre reason there are many grown adults who still think it's cool to be snobby. I have no idea why.

They seem to garner immense satisfaction from feeling superior to something. It's quite pitiful when you think about it.

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Mon 21-Jan-13 09:20:21

Yanbu, she should have minded her own business considering your ds is only 8!
I take my dcs to the toilet with me too, theres too much danger about these days to contemplate leaving a child alone in the toilets.
There has been cases of children getting raped in supermarket toilets.
It's better to know your kids are safe.
Snobby mares like that don't deserve the time off day.

PriscillaLydiaSellon Mon 21-Jan-13 09:23:37

It's depressing that there are actually other people here who think it's okay to shout at people at all, never mind in public (and in front of a child). I feel sorry for teachers if they are having to teach children whose parents have "taught" them that it's okay to be vile.

vigglewiggle Mon 21-Jan-13 09:27:12

I'm not sure where snobbery comes into this scenario confused.

toffeelolly Mon 21-Jan-13 09:38:57

you were just right i take my little boy who is 8 into the ladies toilet with me what a cheeky old cow i would have called her a lot worstgrin good for you!

pinkmagic1 Mon 21-Jan-13 09:49:58

OK, maybe I shouldn't have shouted what I did and I can assure you it is not something I normally do, however the women was extremely rude in her manner and scurried off before I could challenge her in a more civilised manner. It was a split second reaction and she was so rude it wasn't something I felt I could just let go. I also feel I would not have had the reactions I have should the incident have occured in Waitrose or Sainsburys. There is so much snobbery on mumsnet it is unreal.

BupcakesAndCunting Mon 21-Jan-13 09:56:05

FFS, OP said something fairly innocuous, really, in the heat of the moment. She isn't responsible for the breakdown of society, you over-reacting bell-ends. grin

<hands out perspective to all of those in need>

SkinnybitchWannabe Mon 21-Jan-13 09:56:50

There is no way I'd let my 7 year old ds use a mens toilet on their own.
Any old pervert could be hanging around and I've read plenty of stories about kids being assulted in public toilets.
I would also have told the woman to bog off.
YADNBU!

Over reactiing bell ends grin

But won't someone think of the poor little children!

WeeWeeWeeAllTheWayHome Mon 21-Jan-13 10:01:37

People are taking the piss, yes, saying it wouldn't happen in Asda? Tis a MN "in joke" isn't it?

<clutches at straws>

BupcakesAndCunting Mon 21-Jan-13 10:31:28

TBF, the only supermarket altercation I have had was in Asda.

It just attracts that kind of clientele of which I am part

BupcakesAndCunting Mon 21-Jan-13 10:33:04

Oh no, I tell a lie.

I had a stand-up row with some hambeast in Sainsbury's too.

See? Happens anywhere.

Nancy66 Mon 21-Jan-13 10:37:18

I saw a full on fight in an Asda car park once between two women complete with lots of others standing around in tracksuits shouting things like: 'Fucking deck her Cheryl.'

Seems people haven't been in the sainsburys near us if they think you get a better class of people in there

Not a supermarket but I was in Primark with my DD (who wears an adult size 6-8 so we were looking at things for her)
I was looking through a rail for a specific size and two women (old enough to know better, maybe 60 yo) started rifling through the same rail, pushing me aside.

F**k right off I thought.
I said "I am here y'know" - all judgey-like hmm

Not that I don't buy things for me. It's just they might have looked at the clothes (size 6) and me (size 12-14) and thought naah she's just wasting time there.
Let's shift her.

ByTheWay1 Mon 21-Jan-13 10:58:26

At what age should a boy go to the Men's toilet independently ... 8, 9, 10, 12, 14 - older???? When I was young there were plenty of pervs about - but a boy over school age going into the ladies would have been teased mercilessly...

BupcakesAndCunting Mon 21-Jan-13 11:03:34

Fortunately, some of us have the presence of mind not to do things we are uncomfortable with just in case a few numbskulls tease us.

ByTheWay - YY -
my DS asked to go by himself quite young.
We started by letting him go in soft play areas (no main doors, lots of children in and out)
Then he'd go to mens (I started with the ones where there were lots of boys there).
I would wait near the door when he was littler but he was always fairly independant.

The worst was travelling with DS and DD and not letting him go at one of the Motorway Services. Because you don't honestly know who is in there and no-one thinks "Oh that man in the black jacket has been in there a long time".
He could be hovering about, waiting.

I was warned by a local man not to let my DS go to the loo at Leeds Bus Station by himself. Don't know if anything had happened in there but luckily I had my DH and my dad around.

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Mon 21-Jan-13 11:16:46

In this day and age, it's better to be safe than sorry. A bit of teasing bares no match to being assaulted.

Eskino Mon 21-Jan-13 11:19:50

So this woman valued her "dignity" (ranting in an asda toilet kind of excludes her from being a dignified human though) above a child's safety?

Bonkers.

catkind Mon 21-Jan-13 11:21:32

Woman was being v unreasonable judging, she doesn't know you or your son or why you may have chosen to take him into the ladies.
You were prob being a bit unreasonable to shout, but I've done it myself when people say judgy things and run away too fast for me to answer, so totally sympathise.

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Mon 21-Jan-13 11:25:14

If people shall judge, then it's no wonder people shout in the spare of the moment.
People can have opinions, but they shouldn't voice them to strangers.

BupcakesAndCunting Mon 21-Jan-13 11:30:04

"I saw a full on fight in an Asda car park once between two women complete with lots of others standing around in tracksuits shouting things like: 'Fucking deck her Cheryl."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

I do love a good supermarket scrap! grin

Picturesinthefirelight Mon 21-Jan-13 13:05:59

I would also advise against letting a child go to the loo by themselves in Kings Cross Station. Dh was in there and saw a man relieving himself in full view of everyone at the urinals. Luckily ds hadn't give in with him. When he reported it to security they said it was a regularly occurring problem.

hrrumph Mon 21-Jan-13 13:14:54

8 is a bit of a crossover age. I know mine wouldn't like to go into a public toilet on her own at age 7.

I don't really see the harm in him going in with you. In a toilet with cubicles with doors, what exactly is he going to see?

I do get a bit annoyed at the council leisure centre where people bring older boys into the female showers to use the toilet because the young girls are showering and changing in the open there and some of them find it embarrassing.

akaemmafrost Mon 21-Jan-13 13:30:34

Well just back from Asda and yes we did use the toilets and yes ds (age 9) did come in with me.

No one seemed to have a problem with or maybe I just looked too rough to tangle with smile.

countrykitten Mon 21-Jan-13 14:58:23

So when exactly do you let your boys go to the loo by themselves? And I assume that this works the same way for girls when out with their fathers...does not one think it's strange for little girls to be in men's loos at the age of 9?

hoodoo12345 Mon 21-Jan-13 15:05:45

My DS's are6 and 9 and some places they will use the men's but others i take them with me unless they go with DH,.
Not all men's toilets are safe places and i would rather they get a dirty look from some snotty cow who should mind her own business than take the risk.
YANBU.

countrykitten Mon 21-Jan-13 15:25:14

'Snotty cow' - what a delightful turn of phrase you do have.

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Mon 21-Jan-13 15:31:34

Well it is snotty, lbh.
What business is it of another person to judge someone elses child using a different sex toilet with their parent.

CheeseandPickledOnion Mon 21-Jan-13 15:43:19

Sorry, 8 is too old to be in the ladies toilet. He's been having to go alone since he started school, he should be capable.

She shouldn't really have said anything no matter what she thought, but you definitely shouldn't have shouted, or called her names. You lose the moral high ground.

countrykitten Mon 21-Jan-13 15:52:12

CAPO has pretty much summed the situation up in a nutshell.

EverybodysSnowyEyed Mon 21-Jan-13 16:02:08

Why is 8 too old? As said up thread, using school toilets is completely different to using public toilets designed for adults.

As for an 8 year old girl going in the gents with her dad - I don't see the problem. It's not like the dad is going to stand her in front of a urinal and encourage her to look around.

purplecushion Mon 21-Jan-13 16:02:18

YADNBU in any way pinkmagic1.

My hometown has had in the past some very dodgy individuals getting up to and being convicted of things that they were doing in a toilet.

Even though them men were convicted years ago I used to take my son in to the ladies or disabled toilets till he was about 10, he does have ADHD as well.

purplecushion Mon 21-Jan-13 16:05:22

Even though hes at Secondary school now I still tell him to be careful in toilets. Also my dad was approached by a man in a toilet when he was a youngster but managed to get away. I know this is going off subject, but I would be worried about letting a really young child use public toilets alone.

fourfingerkitkat Mon 21-Jan-13 16:32:20

Is it right to voice your opinion to a total stranger when you know nothing of their circumstances or anything about their child ? No....

Is is really acceptable to be abusive and shout at another adult in front of your child ? No ( but it is definitely understandable in this case. Done it myself)

Hope you're taking all of the responses saying you were out of order with a pinch of salt OP (salt should be Asda Smart Price, of course !)

DS is 8 and I won't let him use men's loos without DH. Probably seems like an over reaction but one moment of some low life being in the men's and doing something will wreck their lives.

You should have just explained rather than shouting so no YANBU to take him in the ladies but YABU to shout at someone.

LucieLucie Mon 21-Jan-13 17:57:52

Yanbu in the circumstances.

Woman was rude and made an unnecessary comment about your son being too old (in her opinion) to be in the ladies loos. She should have kept her opinion to herself but instead she was rude to voice it to a stranger in the way she did.
I don't like the thought of young boys being in the mens loos alone no matter how short a time it takes one freak to change a child's life forever. She got what she deserved imo wink

Your son was kept safe regardless of what any one else thinks, and that is the main thing.

voddiekeepsmesane Mon 21-Jan-13 18:57:11

I just don't get the whole taking boys into womens toliets problem. Womens toilets have individual cubicles so therefore no boy child will see anything (there are many places that have no urinals and co ed toilets FFS). It becomes only an issue when it's a girl with a dad in mens toilets and urinals. What the hell do women think the boys will see...the washing and drying of hands OMG hmm

countrykitten Mon 21-Jan-13 19:10:11

Would you be ok with completely unisex loos then? Sounds like you would but there are many people (myself included) who would not.

lovelyladuree Mon 21-Jan-13 19:10:48

Shouting? In Asda?

<clutches pearls>

emski1972 Mon 21-Jan-13 19:33:44

Do you mean that because you shouted at her you were shaky with the adrenalin and joy of telling the nosy cow to mind her own business. I applaud you!

RandallPinkFloyd Mon 21-Jan-13 19:36:57

Ok serious question (seeing as though this thread is somehow still running).

What exactly do people object to about boys in the ladies toilet? I'm not being snippy I'm genuinely asking. I honestly don't know.

Nancy66 Mon 21-Jan-13 19:54:44

i can't see any problem with boys in the women's loo - any business is done behind the door of a cubicle!

I don't like the idea of my DD in the gents though. Not because i think they're crawling with paedos and pervs but just because they smell rank and men always piss everywhere..

voddiekeepsmesane Mon 21-Jan-13 21:05:02

If your question was aimed at me countrykitten then the answer is no I would not be happy with completely unisex toilets. But we as humans do have the need to go periodically and sometimes do not have the choice of men or womens toilet, just A toilet. As a woman I would not be happy with complete unisex but also as a mother of an 8 boy I do not see the hysteria with some women when a"nessne behind cubicles" in a womens toilet.

voddiekeepsmesane Mon 21-Jan-13 21:06:52

sorry keyboard issues....Mother of an 8yo boy
and ...when "any business is done behind the door of a cubicle"

countrykitten Mon 21-Jan-13 21:16:53

I think that saying that there has been 'hysteria' is a bit OTT really!

Primafacie Mon 21-Jan-13 21:25:20

I haven't read the thread <so shoot me>

But I was at a museum this weekend with DCs and we had just sat down fo lunch when DD (aged three) said she needed the loo. DS (aged one) was cranky and hungry, so I sent DD to the toilet alone, and sprinted there when I knew she was done to make sure she had washed her hands, thus leaving DS alone in the restaurant for 32 seconds.

I am baffled as to why an 8 year old boy needs to use the women's toilets.

So my initial feeling is that YABU.

I will now read the thread and will report if I change my mind.

voddiekeepsmesane Mon 21-Jan-13 21:37:19

Well I think having to say anything at all to a mother of an 8yo is OTT countrykitten

Primafacie Mon 21-Jan-13 22:08:38

I am utterly baffled by some of the comments and reasoning on here.

"Why take the risk?" Well, considering most babies who die of shaken baby syndrome are killed by the father, and most boys who are victims of abuse, are molested by a relative, and you have a much higher chance of being the victim of a violent death by just being in a car, than by, err, pretty much any other situation, why would you ever:
- let your DH look after your child?
- let male relatives alone with your child?
- get in a car with your child?

For everyone quoting one instance of a child being molested in Debenhams or McDonalds, there are dozens of examples of mostly male relatives doing the same or worse. Perhaps we should all be little islands and prevent any contact between our children and the big bad world until they reach majority?

Seriously, there is a complete misunderstanding of risk levels in this country. The cotton wool approach drives me mad, as it is self perpetuating - if you are the only one to do things a certain way, you will be judged by others as a bad parent and/or assume that you are wrong, and will stop doing what is normal, and after a while no child is ever allowed to play in a park without his parents surgically attached to him. That is really sad, and I don't understand why the downside never seems to be part of the equation - the lack of independence, of executive decision-making, of responsibility - do none of these have any place at all in our society? Is there not a cost associated with learned helplessness?

I grew up in rural Canada and had unlimited freedom to roam around in the woods and do whatever from the age of 5 or 6. I have incredibly fond memories of my childhood.

If my son can't go to the toilet on his own aged 8, I will consider that I have seriously failed him.

Can't you teach your 8 year old about privacy, no one being allowed to touch, and shouting for help?

gimmecakeandcandy Mon 21-Jan-13 22:14:16

Yanbu at all - and I would have called a fucking silly bitch so in my opinion you were restrained! And ha to all the high and mighty pious comments about how wrong you were to call her names. No you were not. She should have minded her own the miserable cow!

KoalaTale Mon 21-Jan-13 22:15:17

Yanbu. No way would I let an 8yo use the men's alone. Unless he was behaving badly, which it sounds he wasn't, the other woman was being very unreasonable.

gimmecakeandcandy Mon 21-Jan-13 22:18:34

What 'baffles' you primaface? That some of us don't want to risk anything happening to our boys in the men's toilets? Things happen - they may be rare but they do (I know as there was an incident concerning a relative). It's not like the boys will see other ladies peeing if they use the women's loos. Your 'baffling' statement is way over the top.

Sirzy Mon 21-Jan-13 22:21:22

I agree Prima. Some people seem truly unable to sensibly consider risk instead they blow things up out of proportion completly.

DizzyZebra Mon 21-Jan-13 22:23:37

Primafacie YABU. There are peados everywhere you know. EVERYWHERE. Waiting for you to take your eyes off your child just for a second. ESPECIALLY in toilets. THEY LIVE THERE. STOP RISKING YOUR KIDS!

EverybodysSnowyEyed Mon 21-Jan-13 22:25:22

Leaving aside the risk of something indecent happening, a few posters have mentioned the possibility of their sons not being able to manage the heavy doors/locks/taps etc.

It also depends on the location of the toilets.

Yes it was lovely for you to be roaming the woods as a child, but would your parents have been so happy if the woods had the M25 running through them.

I just don't understand why an 8 year old boy in the ladies loo whilst accompanied by his mother is a problem.

Primafacie Mon 21-Jan-13 22:29:25

Yes, gimme. Because everything you do -EVERYTHING - involves risk. Many of the things you do on a day to day basis involve more risk than leaving your son go to the toilet alone, and the risk is of more serious things happening (eg dying in a car accident). So the fixation on strangers in public toilets is both unhealthy, and deflecting attention and resources from real problems.

A number of people have mentioned Jimmy Savile - I may have missed something but I can't remember any reported instance of him abusing children in toilets? I thought his approach, which is pretty standard, was to befriend his victims or perpetrate abuse in their normal surroundings?

Happy to stand corrected if I am wrong, though I doubt it would change my views on the overall level of risk.

Primafacie Mon 21-Jan-13 22:31:49

Dizzy confused

DizzyZebra Mon 21-Jan-13 22:34:39

Prima grin

(You do know my post was a joke don't you?)

Primafacie Mon 21-Jan-13 22:36:31

Everybody, sorry I missed the part in the OP that mentioned the M25 running in the ASDA toilets ;)

I am sadly aware that my kids won't have the same freedom as I had, but much of it is self-imposed and bears no relationship whatsoever with actual risk levels.

Also lol at any post starting with "in this day and age", it being the most peaceful and least violent age ever...

voddiekeepsmesane Mon 21-Jan-13 22:36:41

My opinion is exactly what snowyeyed said.

My 8yo old son will go on his own to the mens if I am comfortable with the surroundings but say if we had to nip into a pub or something I would take him with me into the ladies.

I just don't understand there being a problem as I said earlier considering its all cubicled.

Primafacie Mon 21-Jan-13 22:37:33

Thanks Dizzy, had a sense of humour failure for a second grin

tittytittyhanghang Mon 21-Jan-13 22:38:51

Can't you teach your 8 year old about privacy, no one being allowed to touch, and shouting for help? - Should the worst happen, i dont think an 8 year old would stand a chance againt a fully grown adult. Actually i think your statement is quite insulting, you wouldn't say that to a female rape victim?

As for the fact that abuse is more likely to happen within the family home, all i can say is that using my personal judgement i know and therefore trust my dp, and any one else i choose to leave my dc alone with. I dont know and therefore don't 100% trust strangers. Or should i hire random strangers to look after dc when im not available on the basis that statistically there are less likely to harm them?

EverybodysSnowyEyed Mon 21-Jan-13 22:44:44

I can see why an 8 yo could use the gents on his own, I just want to hear a good reason as to why an 8yo boy shouldn't go to the ladies with his mum

Primafacie Mon 21-Jan-13 22:47:57

Tittytitty, no it is not insulting. And please take my word that I know what I am talking about.

The idea of hiring random strangers made me smile. Apparently yes, that would be safer. I know this sounds crazy though. But I am also sure a lot of mums of abused boys never in a million years suspected their father/brother/partner to be an abuser?

Incidentally, have you noticed that the Freds on here are always about suspect BILs and FILs, and almost never about the mum's brothers and father being potential paedos?

EverybodysSnowyEyed Mon 21-Jan-13 22:50:28

this thread is getting derailed a bit!

Was the OP being unreasonable to bring her son into the ladies - that seems to be a matter of opinion
Was OP unreasonable to shout - probably but understandable I think
was the other lady unreasonable - yes, because if you want to share an opinion you don't just bark it and trot off.

DizzyZebra Mon 21-Jan-13 22:51:15

Prima I think the fact that you thought someone might genuinely believe that peados live in toilets for this purpose says more about how hysterical some people are than it does about your sense of humour! smile

EverybodysSnowyEyed Mon 21-Jan-13 22:54:09

I think the best toilets are those where they are unisex but each is a separate little room with it's own sink etc.

No problems at all then with deciding who can and can't use them!

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Mon 21-Jan-13 22:58:22

Statistics are just what they are though aren't they-a number, but that number is a child, even if it saves the small percentage having a life of hell, its worth guarding them when possible.

There have been many incidents of paedophiled in toilets, the statistic is small but why take the chance just because some snob doesn't like it?

An 8 year old is more likely to be raped than to rape, so why shouldn't he have been allowed in the female toilets?

A: The woman was rude.
B: If she'd have minded her own beeswax like most people, she wouldn't have got shouted at.
C: Maybe it will teach the woman to keep her thoughts to herself next time.
D:If op doesn't feel comfortable allowing her 8yo ds into male toilets, its her business & hers only if she wants to take him to the females instead.

tittytittyhanghang Mon 21-Jan-13 22:59:39

Well we'll have to agree to disagree, i find it rather insulting. Id imagine most parents teach their children about privacy, no one being allowed to touch, and shouting for help, but the reality is if you unfortunate enough to be the victim of a sexual assualt/rape etc your not always in presence of mind/too scared to shout for help, and knowing about privacy and that no one is allowed to touch you isn't going to physically help a child to stop it happening.

NothingIsAsBadAsItSeems Mon 21-Jan-13 23:15:13

There's this marvelous invention called a rape alarm (or something similar). It's a keyring that emits a loud distress sound when pushed, you can attach it to your childs trousers so that they can access it easily if you wish. If your child has need to use it you can then barge in, deck the perv and then stamp on his balls wink Though it is a very low risk.... You could always accompany your child into the gents...

Primafacie Mon 21-Jan-13 23:18:25

No, it may not help in the face of a violent assault, but statistically there is less chance of that happening than of your DH, DF, or your child's teacher or nursery worker to abuse them. Yet we all leave our children every day in the care of others without a second thought?

I just think the public toilet risk is being completely blown out of proportion. There are a hundred things I would stop my child from doing (drinking bath water; eating sausages; crossing a street, ever) before worrying about public toilets. I would actually worry more about the washing of hands, and potential e-coli/ D& V, that I would about stranger danger.

Have you taught your children about dangerous puppies by the way? Because studies show that kids completely forget whatever they have been told about stranger danger, the minute the stranger has a puppy.

I used to have dogs, and witnessed that first hand many times sad

tittytittyhanghang Mon 21-Jan-13 23:20:05

You could always accompany your child into the gents... Surely a 8 year old in a womans toilet (which is all cubicled) is less intrusive than an adult female in a mans toilet where there is usually open urinals? Not that you can usually see anything unless your really look but still, i wouldn't want strangers watching me peeing on a toilet.

tittytittyhanghang Mon 21-Jan-13 23:23:12

I tend to go with gut feelings and what makes me comfortable, even if that is statistically incorrect. What can i say, im human.

Primafacie Mon 21-Jan-13 23:49:12

Yes Titty, and unfortunately our instincts and gut feelings are often wrong. That's where science comes into play. A wonderful thing, science. Also a human invention, I believesmile

EverybodysSnowyEyed Tue 22-Jan-13 00:19:31

There is no wrong or right though. There is no reason for an 8 yo bit to accompany his mum to the ladies.

We all follow our gut on things when it comes to our kids. We can play statistics but how much comfort is that if the worse to happen. We all make calculated risks but some are not worth taking. In this instance op felt more comfortable having son with her. Perhaps in another situation she would have sent him off to the gents

In sure there are things that you do as a parent that others would scoff at. I'm just unsure why posters should be mocked for a perfectly harmless parenting choice.

akaemmafrost Tue 22-Jan-13 00:19:33

FGS there is no way I am going to give my CHILD a rape alarm along with the explanation to A CHILD that that entails! What a ridiculous suggestion. No, I will continue the HARMLESS practice of taking my CHILD into the ladies with me where his safety can be assured. Anyone who has a problem with that needs to get a grip quite frankly and that's my last word on the matter.

Primafacie Tue 22-Jan-13 00:28:07

Everybody, I agree with you up to a point, but you seem to ignore the fact that your gut feeling, instinct or perception of the risk, however you want to call it, is for a large part determined by your environment, including the mass hysteria around stranger danger. Any notion that your instinct must be right, and/or that it operates in a vacuum, is entirely wrong, I'm afraid.

EverybodysSnowyEyed Tue 22-Jan-13 00:34:27

But you are ignoring the fact that gut instinct evolves over time and is influenced by prior experience. Often people use the expression when really they have made a split second decision quite logically. Have you read blink by Malcolm glad well? Quite interesting.

Anyway, I don't think science or gut instinct are relevant to the discussion. I think what akaem said is perfect.

And no one has come up with a good reason for an 8 yo boy to not be in he ladies whilst accompanied by his mum

DizzyZebra Tue 22-Jan-13 00:36:20

TBH I think anybody who has a problem either way is a bit sad.
It would not bother me seeing an 8 year old boy in the womans toilets with their Mum.
It would not bother me if the child goes into the mens on their own.

I have no problem with young girls coming in on their own if they are out with their Dad either, And i would not object to my daughters Dad taking her in the mens.

EverybodysSnowyEyed Tue 22-Jan-13 00:38:05

People have feelings and emotions and are ultimately irrational. You can't expect everyone to follow a strict statistical analysis in every decision they make. Of course an emotional response will impact decision making.

Why do you think the term pfb was coined!!!

gimmecakeandcandy Tue 22-Jan-13 06:57:15

Prima, I am very happy to ignore and discard everything you have said and stick to how I feel on this. Now run along with your baffled thoughts as no one wants to hear anymore from you.

JusticeCrab Tue 22-Jan-13 07:04:23

Everybody in this scenario was being unreasonable to some extent.

1) In my personal opinion, eight is too old to be making assisted visits to the toilet unless you have a medical problem. Were my DD 8 (she isn't) I would be waiting outside the ladies for her, not taking her into the gents.

2) HOWEVER, these things are a matter of parental choice and the reason your kid was in the loo should have been obvious: he was with you, and you were assisting him in going to the loo. Nothing sinister about it. The woman was very rude to comment.

3) Your response to her, given the provocation, was not really unreasonable.

JusticeCrab Tue 22-Jan-13 07:05:11

PS. The rest of this thread is a bit Paedogeddon.

Mimishimi Tue 22-Jan-13 07:16:03

I think your reply to her was rude and didn't put you in a good light. I don't think you were being unreasonable with your son though. When my brother was about that age, he came out of the men's loo in a central train station and said there was a man who tried to touch him. He was quite shaken about it and I've never forgotten it when it comes to my six year old DS. I never let him in the men's loo alone unless he runs in first ( and then I'm standing outside calling out to see if he's ok blush). You could have just said that he's a bit young to fend for himself if need be.

Primafacie Tue 22-Jan-13 08:19:50

Gimme, who appointed you as spokesperson for the whole of mumsnet?

Never been told to run along before! <proud>

ooer Tue 22-Jan-13 09:02:01

Hello.

YANBU to take an 8-yr-old boy into the ladies toilet - have done it myself, not everywhere but places I think might be dodgy. (Our local toilet has an attendant who sits in an office between the ladies' and gents' so he went in the gents ' there no prob.) I wish it were otherwise but it ain't.

SWBU to give you an earful and then try to bugger off without giving you the opportunity (if you wanted it) to reply.

YANBU unreasonable to shout your reply after her although I prob would not have bothered.

YABU to swear at her.

I often thought of what I would say if challenged (no-one ever did) and it came down to - "yes he can manage on his own but there are a lot of funny people about and he's just a little boy". That was it in a nutshell really and not my having read a throwaway line in a novel about a little boy having been raped in the park toilets as his mother stood outside tapping her foot impatiently

chubbychipmonk Tue 22-Jan-13 09:06:43

YANBU, there was an incident in the news recently where a young boy was sexually assaulted in ASDA toilets by a man (in the male toilets) while his mum waited outside for him. What difference does it make to her?? It's not as if he was crawling under the cubicle door to look at her peeing!

And I always get annoyed at myself for not saying things at the time so well done calling her a miserable cow. . That's exactly what she was!

DonderandBlitzen Tue 22-Jan-13 10:07:53

Those who think it is wrong for an 8 year old to be in the loos with his mum, can you explain why this is? What is it you don't like about it or are worried about?

RandallPinkFloyd Tue 22-Jan-13 10:25:12

No one will answer donde, I've asked about 3 times.

I think it's a secret!

ByTheWay1 Tue 22-Jan-13 10:45:37

No one will answer the other question either - how old does a boy have to be to NOT ever go into a ladies toilet ?

To put it the other way round...I would not be happy sending MY 9 year old daughter to the LADIES toilets alone if I knew there were so many older boys "lurking" in there.... I take it these boys are not IN the cubicle with their mum - WHO knows what could be happening whilst they wait.... (yes said somewhat tongue in cheek, but where does it end - 14 year old boys in there "just in case" - how many mums of daughters would be happy with that scenario...)

DonderandBlitzen Tue 22-Jan-13 11:26:00

I think pre teenage is fine. As a mum of daughters I would have absolutely no problem with a preteen boy in the loos with his mum with my daughters in there. Now will you tell us why you find the idea of an 8 year old boy in the loo with his mum unpalatable?

Wowserz129 Tue 22-Jan-13 11:39:06

8 is too old to be in a female bathroom! He's more than old enough to go in to a toilet on his own. I honestly don't blame the women and its rather gutless to shout abuse once the women was leaving and have not just stated your point calmly once she had voiced hers!!

Ds2 is 9 nearly 10 and hasn't wanted to go into the women's toilets for a few years. Usually dp or ds1 will go with him.

However if I was on my own with him it would depend where we were.

EverybodysSnowyEyed Tue 22-Jan-13 11:43:13

But why are pre pubescent boys, accompanied by their mum, such a problem in the ladies?

8 isn't too old to be in the ladies toilets at all, how ridiculous. The lad could see women washing their hands in a kitchen or a hospital, should he be banned from them as well? Unless its his seeing <gasp> a woman using the hand dryer thats the problem. hmm

KatyPeril Tue 22-Jan-13 12:15:12

YANBU.

ByTheWay1 Tue 22-Jan-13 12:23:32

I asked my 9 year old DD - and she says she would be fine with a "little boy" - her definition being up to about 5 or 6 - in the same queue for the loo as her, but she would be "mortified" if a boy the same age as her went into the ladies, so perhaps those mums of boys should check there are no younger girls in there - why should girls feel uncomfortable when they are in the toilets allocated for their gender....

I never even thought about it before this thread, maybe because I have in RL never seen a boy over the age of about 5 in a ladies loo... must live in posh-town... Though I have been through airports/railways etc too...

PessaryPam Tue 22-Jan-13 12:43:54

BupcakesAndCunting What actually IS the problem with an 8 year old using the women's bogs? It's not like we women walk around with our fanjos out inside the toilet compound. What is he going to see? Some ladies handwashing? Racy.

Yes, I don't get it either. It's not exactly like we adopt the ancient Roman approach. I mean, we have cubicles and everything.
www.show.me.uk/site/news/STO1206.html

BupcakesAndCunting Tue 22-Jan-13 12:54:38

Cor, I like the Roman bog! Imagine sitting and having a natter with the person next to you, about last night's Corrie/price of spuds, whilst you curl one out!

KevinFoley Tue 22-Jan-13 12:57:46

The issue I have with older boys also using women's loos is the already long queues (what do women do in there???) will only get longer. While the men's will be pristine tumbleweedy affairs.

hopeful92 Tue 22-Jan-13 13:01:17

You were both being unreasonable.

She was being unreasonable for questioning you taking your 8yo into the ladies.

You were being unreasonable for shouting at her in front of your DS.

If I were you I would just forget about the whole incident and move on smile

PessaryPam Tue 22-Jan-13 13:05:20

Now if the OP had run after the old slag and smashed her face in that would have BU. Her actual actions I feel were within the realms of reasonable.

MrsBungleBear Tue 22-Jan-13 13:09:52

I have seen this a few times on here now. I have still never heard anyone answer what the problem is with having young boys in the ladies toilets?

The toilets are in cubicles. I have visited many public toilets and am yet to see the naked women prancing about in them.

I just don't get the outrage at all.

Anyway, so I think YANBU to take your 8yo into the ladies with you. However YWBU to shout at her but you probably know that.

ByTheWay1 Tue 22-Jan-13 13:33:15

Depends on your view of "young" ... to me 8 -10 are not that young that they could not go to the gents solo... I'm a dinner lady at school and some 9 year olds are as tall as me!

I personally would not want my petite 9 year old daughter to feel uncomfortable going to the toilet alone - in toilets allocated to her own gender - because a 5 foot 3, 9 year old is deemed too young to go to his own toilets ...... if a parent is worried about "unsavoury" sorts in there, they could always check.... but no - heaven forbid a grown woman is made to feel uncomfortable in checking a male toilet, lets make some girls and old ladies feel uncomfortable instead....

Why do girls have to be made to feel uncomfortable because of the fears of boy's mothers.

That is why I do not think boys of 8 and over should not be in the ladies loo... (incidentally, I have had reason to remove my top in the ladies when scalding hot coffee was spilled on it - so yes, sometimes ladies do "get their baps out" outside a cubicle)

Picturesinthefirelight Tue 22-Jan-13 14:00:25

You see to me an 8-9 year old boy is young. Not mature enough to know how to get out if trouble. Innocent enough to take people at face value and certainly in the case if ds not physically able to manage heavy doors etc meant for adults.

Are there really 9 year olds who are 5ft 3????? I'm only 5 four 4.

What do you think an 8yo boy is going to think about you in the toilet 'getting your baps out' that a grown woman or an 8yo girl wouldn't think?

I have had more 'issue' with 2/3/4yo children looking under cubicle doors than anything else, should we ban them all from toilets too.

Does your DD feel uncomfortable in shop queues with boys too bytheway?

PessaryPam Tue 22-Jan-13 14:17:45

Bytheway, your petite 9 year old daughter??? Have you issued her with pearls to clutch yet?

ByTheWay1 Tue 22-Jan-13 14:19:06

Are these the same 8-10 year olds who are cub scouts, away at camp, going sailing, building bridges, responsible for showering themselves, using cruddy toilet blocks - with the same heavy doors etc....

Or at their evening meetings in the youth centre at our village hall are they expected to use the ladies, because one of the hired halls is in use with lots of men (and a few of us women) doing mixed-martial-arts training, and another games room holds the youth club ? - lots of "unsavoury sorts" there...

(the boys would not dream of using the ladies - and their mummies are not there to worry about it)

voddiekeepsmesane Tue 22-Jan-13 14:19:48

And now we come to the hub of it. Why the hell should my 8 year old make anyone feel "uncomfortable" by being in a ladies toilet??!!

Ariel24 Tue 22-Jan-13 14:20:56

OP YANBU, ok perhaps calling her a miserable cow wasn't your finest hour but her comments would have pissed me off too. Nothing wrong with your DS using the ladies, he is a child there with his mum, what sort of adult female has a problem with this?

Even if she didn't like it, I don't know why she thought she had the right to make comments like that, none of her business is it. She should have kept her mouth shut.

voddiekeepsmesane Tue 22-Jan-13 14:21:13

Oh thats right I remember now all boys are thugs or at the very least potential ones hmm

EverybodysSnowyEyed Tue 22-Jan-13 14:27:33

How on earth does an 8 year old make you feel uncomfortable?

No one is saying 8yo boys can't use the toilets on their own (although some are not built for ease of use of a small boy) - but why should they not use the ladies?

And not all 8yo are the same - why does it actually matter if a pre pubescent boy uses the ladies with his mum?

ByTheWay1 Tue 22-Jan-13 14:28:07

Nope, but obviously all MEN are - a pervert round every corner...... or in every public toilet.....

Crawling Tue 22-Jan-13 14:29:56

Op Yanbu ds age 7 goes in the ladies.

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Tue 22-Jan-13 14:34:02

I can' t believe some of you can' t see the danger in public toilets shock
I Don' t think making jokes about paedophilia is very funny, and those that think it is Don' t belong on mn.

atthewelles Tue 22-Jan-13 14:35:17

YANBU. 8 is still quite young to go to a public toilet on his own and its a judgement call you should be entitled to make. If he was 11 or 12 she might have a point.

snowybrrr Tue 22-Jan-13 14:42:03

He is 8, of course he shouldn't be in the ladies!

Crawling Tue 22-Jan-13 14:43:29

Plus at age 7 ds does still have toilet issues (poss sn) he often gets in a mess and needs help cleaning up.

ByTheWay1 Tue 22-Jan-13 14:47:20

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding - if that was aimed at me, I was not joking - merely commenting on the fact that nowadays people will only see the bad in men - our sons, husbands, brothers and fathers.

KevinFoley Tue 22-Jan-13 14:50:17

In my 40 years of life I have never seen a boy over the age of 6 in a female loo, despite extensive research in supermarkets, zoos, museums, shopping centres, ad infinitum. I conclude it's a mumsnet myth. My only issue with female loos becoming unisex in this way is the impact on the already lengthy queues while the mens stands empty (loitering no good types notwithstanding).

hopeful92 Tue 22-Jan-13 14:55:23

I think it depends entirely where you are as well.

I would happily send an 8 year old to the loo by themself at ASDA (I presume you can wait right outside the door anyway), whereas I wouldn't let them go on their own in a motorway service station or very busy railway station.

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Tue 22-Jan-13 14:57:35

It wasn't aimed at yoy BytheWay, it's aimed at some pp from yesterday.

pinkmagic1 Tue 22-Jan-13 15:01:04

I do not think there is a pervert around every corner, in fact my children have a lot more freedom than many of their friends and are allowed to play outside unaccompanied on our street and of course my son can use the toilet by himself.
He is welcome to use the mens if he wishes but in some locations he feels more comfortable using the ladies which at 8 years old I really cant see the issue. He is a long way off puberty and I can assure you does not look at anyone in a sexual manner, in fact I very much doubt if he knows exactly what sex is other than it is a rude word to giggle about in the playground!
I would be interested if any of the objectors have actually parented a boy of this age group.

Idocrazythings Tue 22-Jan-13 15:06:27

Children don't just get molested in public toilets they get murdered too. YANBU; but you shouldn't have shouted.

mathanxiety Tue 22-Jan-13 15:17:39

Hoping we are all teaching our boys and girls good toilet etiquette so that they will all become competent users of public conveniences at some point? i.e. get in, do your business, wash hands (unless you see something to indicate you should leave immediately) and leave. No loitering.

RafflesWay Tue 22-Jan-13 15:59:08

Oh for goodness sake! Stop having a go at op for letting loose at woman in asda loos. Op was merely displaying lioness protecting cub behaviour and I feel sure it was a knee jerk reaction which we have either all done at some time or you are so bloody perfect with your temperament you must have alternative equally annoying habits. Accusing op of Jeremy kylish behaviour is VERY OFFENSIVE and totally unnecessary and THAT LACKS CLASS! Op is probably feeling shook up because of her knee jerk reaction which I have felt myself in bygone times. We can all react better with hindsight but THAT IS LIFE!! Oh and personally I think anyone who has a problem with an 8 yr old being well protected by an obviously very caring mum is MEH bearing in mind the horror stories we hear nowadays. What on earth is he going to see anyway or are public ladies loos a hell of a lot more decadent in other areas than my own???

marjproops Tue 22-Jan-13 16:32:41

I would not let a boy alone in the mens...you never know whos in there and what theyd do.

friend let hers do that, he was 9, and he said a man in there said 'show me your willy' to him. and shook his own at her son. she had no reason not to believe him. she now takes him with her and sod what others say (shes a lone parent).

Another friend has a boy of 11 with sn and he cant manage anything by himself, and sometimes she says the disabled toilets arent accessable (she even has a key for them) so has no other choice.

Its not ideal but maybe places should do parent and child' toilets like they do in parking lots.

Picturesinthefirelight Tue 22-Jan-13 17:42:01

I've only just started to let dd in the ladies by herself because she was oblivious to checking whether a toilet was clean. In one pub she was about to tread through excrement someone had left all over the cubicle/around the seat. Awful

Dh says that men's toilets are often filthy. I wouldn't want ds wading through filth. Supermarkets that are checked regularly are usually ok but pubs and parks - no way.

MooMooSkit Tue 22-Jan-13 17:57:37

What actually IS the problem with an 8 year old using the women's bogs? It's not like we women walk around with our fanjos out inside the toilet compound. What is he going to see? Some ladies handwashing? Racy. - THIS has been my fave comment so far.

I think you all need to get a bloody grip to be honest, who gives a shit whether a mum chooses to take her 8 year old son in a toilet with her? The cubiles are shut anyway?! Also using school toilets is completely different to using public toilets, are the people making this comment being delibrately obtuse?

I do think you shouting her was a bit OTT but then it's easy to react like that when someone gets all judgy and up themselves when you are doing what you think is best for your child, it was none of her business, I would of found a nicer way of telling her to do one, maybe, "Try telling your stories to people who care, dear"

I've seen arguments in Waitrose too. Sorry to burst your bubble.

PriscillaLydiaSellon Tue 22-Jan-13 19:06:55

RafflesWay: my problem with the OP isn't that she let her son go in the ladies' loos (I think that's perfectly reasonable, as it happens). It's that she behaved like a fishwife and set a frightful example to her own child (and any others who happened to be watching). I'm not "bloody perfect", but there's a difference between being imperfect and being downright rude and offensive.

If she really wanted to engage with the other woman (whom I think was wrong), she could have done so politely.

countrykitten Tue 22-Jan-13 19:24:52

PessaryPam 'the old slag'...FFS. Words fail me.

BegoniaBampot Tue 22-Jan-13 21:21:14

My mum and her friend were attacked by a man in the ladies loo when they were kids, it does happen. I don't see a pedophile round every corner at all but men's loos are ideal opportunities for this kind of thing. I just use my judgement and it depends on the place. My sons have used the loos on their own from quite young (6ish) but often I send them in together And it depends on the place. I don't blame mums for being nervous and worried about this.

narniasnarnia Tue 22-Jan-13 21:43:35

OP - You need to learn to deal with everyday life (ie someone expressing an opinion that you don't agree with) without being rude, unpleasant and aggressive.
Do you want your child to shout at elderly women "Mind your own business you miserable cow" whenever they say something to him that he doesn't like - because this is what he will be doing before long.....and probably worse as he gets into teenage years..

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Tue 22-Jan-13 22:02:16

The lady was rude for sticking her nose where it wasn't wanted and imo got off lightly grin

ledkr Tue 22-Jan-13 22:13:25

On France the dads take their dds into the ladies. I was surprised and a bit cats bum about it but then couldn't understand why.
There's nothing to see in the hand washing area.

We were in Blackpool about ten years ago and a boy was murdered in the toilets of one of the piers and there was a boy also murdered when he went to toilet in a public park while his dad watched cricket.
Men's bogs are notorious places for sexual activity so it's not unreasonable not to let your ds go in alone.
Some people go out looking to tell people off.

countrykitten Tue 22-Jan-13 22:29:42

So at what age do you think they can go in to the loos by themselves....21? 43?

LineRunner Tue 22-Jan-13 22:36:55

Where I live the Police once asked asked for a men's public convenience to be closed for a while, to halt the cycle of inappropriate activity.

I would never let my son go into them alone while he was a child.

Call me crazy.

EverybodysSnowyEyed Tue 22-Jan-13 22:47:14

no one has given a good reason yet as to why a pre-pubescent boy shouldn't go into the ladies with his mum

Picturesinthefirelight Tue 22-Jan-13 22:49:16

Because there isn't one!

Catchingmockingbirds Tue 22-Jan-13 22:50:42

I think the Asda toilets are nicer than Morrisons toilets smile, just saying.

EverybodysSnowyEyed Tue 22-Jan-13 22:52:28

my local sainsburys has a baby changing room that has a toilet cubicle in it. Problem solved!

akaemmafrost Tue 22-Jan-13 23:01:55

countrykitten ds will be allowed to enter the mens alone only when he meets the following criteria

1. Has a black belt in karate.

2. Has the ability to wrestle himself away from me in order to enter them alone.

HTH smile.

boredSAHMof4 Wed 23-Jan-13 08:28:27

The boy raped in the Debenhams toilet was 14.Do you plan to take your DSs into the ladies toilets until then!!!!!!!

KhallDrogo Wed 23-Jan-13 08:37:07

You know your children are more likely to be abused by someone they know?

Girls are raped much more often, in a variety of venues....you don't keep them indoors or shaperoned do you?

EverybodysSnowyEyed Wed 23-Jan-13 08:47:36

If you are talking pre pubescent girls then I don't think anyone has suggested that they would chaperone a boy that age and not a girl

ledkr Wed 23-Jan-13 08:52:17

I think you were right to shout at her. I can't stand these people who thinks its their job to go around putting people in their place. I think it's good when someone puts them back on theirs!

The thing is the op has said he didn't want to go to the toilet on his own, some times he does other times he doesnt.

In the same situation would you send your dd on her own, even though she didn't want to or would you go with her?

PessaryPam Wed 23-Jan-13 09:32:59

countrykitten PessaryPam 'the old slag'...FFS. Words fail me

FFS? Do you know what that stands for Ms Prim? And do you read everything literally with no humour?

ooer Wed 23-Jan-13 09:51:07

I don't have any daughters but I have a niece, and I have to admit we are quite protective of her - I allow my streetwise 13-yr-old DS1 to take the bus/train into town on his own [he is met at the other end], but we always make sure DN (aged 15) is accompanied).

I wouldn't insist on accompanying her into the ladies' toilets, but I would normally be close by, waiting outside. (And it wouldn't particularly bother me if there was a boy in there with his mum - even if it made her feel uncomfortable, I think the mum's worries about his safety must come first.

It's a risk analysis thing - boils down to my assessment of the risk of them being approached, what I think they could do about it if they were approached [depends to some extent on the individual and their capabilities], the level of harm that could ostensibly result, and the measures I can take to control the risk.

I know you can't sweep away risks altogether and kids have to learn how to deal with risks, but we need to keep in mind their capabilities.

And yes I know there are lots of other risks, and I try to deal with them appropriately too.

I do think men's toilets are dodgier than women's, and having taken the odd wrong turning in a pub or restaurant, ime they're usually scuzzier [looks down nose].

pinkmagic1 Wed 23-Jan-13 09:52:22

Bloody hell, I have never started a thread before that has generated so many posts!

Narnianarnia, I have said that maybe I shouldn't have shouted what I did but it was a split second reaction and not something I do daily. I really don't think my son is going to grow up shouting at people because of a one of incident do you? Also as I stated before if you had cared to read through the thread, the women in question shouted her opinion and scarpered so it didn't really give me chance to enter into a sensible dialogue!. Do you also think I should bring my son up to think it is OK for others to go around speaking to him in an aggressive manner and to just let them walk all over him and not to speak his mind?

You also mentioned that the women was old, again if you had read my posts there is no mention of the womens age as this is irrelevant.

None of you objectors have yet come back to say if you have ever parented a boy of this age. I would be truly interested to know.

AudrinaAdare Wed 23-Jan-13 10:01:33

I am loving that link about toilets through the ages:

"These days almost all of us have flushing toilets - maybe even more than one. It wasn't until a man called Thomas Crapper came along in the mid 19th century, about 150 years ago, that they became widespread"

Did Thomas Crapper invent them I wonder, or force someone else to?

OP I wouldn't have shouted but this is something I am going to have to deal with myself soon - DS is five, autistic and still in pull-ups. There aren't always disabled facilities and he is going to be an especially vulnerable child sad

KhallDrogo Wed 23-Jan-13 10:02:25

Statistically there is more risk from uncles and grandads; do you make sure they are never left alone together?

KhallDrogo Wed 23-Jan-13 10:07:17

BTW...I absolutely have no problem with 8 year old boys in the female toilets if they don't want to go alone into the men's. It's not necessary for 14 yo though

And am interested that, dads bring their dds into the women's and mums bring their ds into the ladies. Why don't dads take dds into the mens?

I think the risk is over stated

KhallDrogo Wed 23-Jan-13 10:10:13

That was rambling sorry. I mean to say I think taking boys into ladies because the ds isn't confident to go alone is fair enough (although, I don't know any 8 year olds that couldn't go to the toilet alone)

But, I don't think they need to go in the women's because of all the paedopgiles in the men's

OverlyYappyAlways Wed 23-Jan-13 10:20:16

I don't know what I would do with my 8 year old if this happened tbh. He is very tall, but has a cute face, but I'm his mother so that's possibly just me who sees that. He also would most likely lock himself in the mens toilets for fun!

YANBU for taking him in with you

She was BU for even commenting, her running makes it worse, it would depend upon my mood what I said to her, not sure I could say nothing.

I have no filter on my brain to stop me saying the thoughts you should keep to yourself. I'm working on it.

JeffFaFa Wed 23-Jan-13 10:24:33

Ds is 7, he will continue to use the ladies with me for as long as i feel he needs too, i cant see it changing any time soon tbh, most womens toilets ive seen have a sign on the door saying up to and including age 8 can use either toilet. I will review it then, if hes still not ready and i hope he is but if not he will continue to use the womens or the disabled toilet. He has possible sn (mild) and is capable of going to the gents for a pee himself but he is not capable of protecting himself if approached, or knowing what is and isnt appropriate.

ByTheWay1 Wed 23-Jan-13 12:02:29

You do know that women could just go into the gents with their sons if they were so worried too....

maybe the threat of having all these women treking in to check the safety would MAKE things safer for all the thousands of 8-10 year old boys who are seemingly under threat...

little kids - under 8 fine - SN fine, but if all these public gents are so risky ( that is the reason that the majority of mums of boys are giving for their boys being in the ladies toilet) perhaps it is time for mums to take a stand and ensure their child's safety in the gents toilet - it might then make it safer for the older boys too - or is the age of use of the ladies going to continue on its upward creep....

EverybodysSnowyEyed Wed 23-Jan-13 12:08:22

I can probably count on one hand the number of times I have seen a boy older than 5 in the ladies. You make it sound like this is a huge issue up and down the country!

And what is the difference between a nine year old and a six year old other than their height?

ByTheWay1 Wed 23-Jan-13 12:27:15

I have never seen a boy older than 5 or 6 in the ladies loo myself, I do not think it is a huge issue, what I have issue with is the normalising of having boys in the ladies - the age creeps up - it was 8 in the op - then someone else has a 9 year old, someone else a 10 year old - then murmurings about is it ok at 11 or 12 - senior school kids.

Abitwobblynow Wed 23-Jan-13 13:04:30

'thank you for your opinion, but after the McDonalds and Debenhams incidents this is the choice I have made'

ItsintheBag Wed 23-Jan-13 13:15:03

I dont see the issue with an 8 year old going in the ladies.Every one is in a cubicle.
What exactly was she worried he would see? Her washing her hands?Its not like there are urinals in the ladies.
You lost your message yelling at her though.You should have just told her mind her own without yelling.

When my DS was about 8yo or so he was very keen to go to the loo himself. Usually "Can I go to the toilet. I'm okay by myself" and sprinting off in the direction (if he knew where it was)

Once in a large Debenhams, I was in the queue to pay, the toilets were down a corridor (throw swing doors) that I could see. Lots of people coming and going.
He knows the "just pee, wash your hands and don't talk to anyone rule"

He came back and said "I couldn't find the toilet so I asked a man who looked like Grandad".

His logic- don't ask a stranger. But Grandad (or in this case look-alike) is safe.

It's a balancing act to keep them safe and informed. But to not overload them so that they think everyone is out to get them. Or cottonwool wrap them.

BTW my boy does karate. I don't think it would help much against an adult though. He could get out of a grasp and run though.

ByTheWay1 Wed 23-Jan-13 13:24:35

The Debenhams incident was on a FOURTEEN YEAR OLD BOY - we need to make gents toilets safe for fourteen year old boys, not have them use the ladies.... I know no one is yet suggesting that they do use the ladies, but it is a natural extension of the safety argument.....

And YY some people just like to impart their views out loud.
Like challenging people who park in P&C, Blue Badge Spaces.
Put their feet on chairs.
Or have their 4 yo walking round with a dummy ( one at my DC school does)

It's just most people think it but don't say it out loud. hmm

Crawling Wed 23-Jan-13 13:50:36

We need either children's toilets or family toilets.

PriscillaLydiaSellon Wed 23-Jan-13 14:02:16

"Do you also think I should bring my son up to think it is OK for others to go around speaking to him in an aggressive manner and to just let them walk all over him and not to speak his mind?"

There is a difference between not being walked all over and being revoltingly rude. Your behaviour was in the latter category, and put you even more in the wrong than the other woman was in the first place (who will have thought that she was not only right about the boys-in-the-loo thing, but that you were rude and setting a rude example too).

The best example to set your son in this instance would be to say to him that the loo-woman had evidently got some funny ideas, and that it's a shame nobody ever taught her not to be rude. Instead, you just taught your son to meet rudeness with rudeness. sad

pinkmagic1 Wed 23-Jan-13 14:07:32

Well not everyone is perfect like some on here!

maxmillie Wed 23-Jan-13 14:09:35

I make my 8y old come into the ladies with me and will continue to do so for as long as possible, primarily for hygiene reasons, but also slight safety concerns. Lots of dodginess goes on in male public toilets, as anyone that lived in Clapham Common like I did and once tried to use the loos in desperation can tell you.

KhallDrogo Wed 23-Jan-13 14:17:40

Asda though? Not a notorious cottaging hang out

maxmillie Wed 23-Jan-13 14:18:36

how do I know where the latest notorious cottaging hangout is? I don't mix in those circles anymore smile

NothingIsAsBadAsItSeems Wed 23-Jan-13 16:43:06

Cottaging, what's cottaging? <has lead a very sheltered life>

maxmillie Wed 23-Jan-13 16:43:39

exactly

NothingIsAsBadAsItSeems Wed 23-Jan-13 16:49:32

Had to look it up... sighs..... I did something similar with dh before we were married after a night out in the 24hr asda loos at 2am ish blush

<hangs head in shame, I'm such a whore bag> grin

maxmillie Wed 23-Jan-13 16:55:48

Lol! Exactly! That is why my children come into the toilet with me, so I can protect them from seeing people like you and all the awkward questions that would surely follow grin

To be fair, I would be quite surprised to hear about such shenanigans happening in a supermarket toilet before children's bedtime but you never know .....

Worley Wed 23-Jan-13 16:55:59

yes snowyeyed - our asda has a massive family toilet.. so I take ds2 (6) in there with me if ladies is closed.. failing that if both are closed ds1 (14) will take him in men's. which I hate and stand with my foot at the main door so it's just ajar... ds2 is taller than me (im 5 6) so is capable of watching over him in those situations ....

NothingIsAsBadAsItSeems Wed 23-Jan-13 18:09:29

"Lol! Exactly! That is why my children come into the toilet with me, so I can protect them from seeing people like you and all the awkward questions that would surely follow grin "

Lol, to be fair we did use the disabled toilet and locked the door so your dc wouldn't have seen anything grin

KhallDrogo Wed 23-Jan-13 18:44:07

You used the DISABLED toilet?!?!?!?! shock

grin

countrykitten Thu 24-Jan-13 11:58:37

Will one of these lavatory ninja mothers please explain why they cannot start to teach their oh-so-fragile sons how to use the mens loos by taking them in there rather than dragging them in to the ladies? This makes far more sense to me.

Or do you all just hate men and want to categorise them all as paedos?

Touchmybum Thu 24-Jan-13 12:19:06

I don't think men would want us ladies taking our sons into the men's toilets countrykitten. How on earth does not wanting your young son to go for a pee unsupervised equate to hating men?!

I think busybodies as in the OP would be well advised to mind their own business, and the rest of us ignore their witterings when they do stick their nose in.

NothingIsAsBadAsItSeems Thu 24-Jan-13 12:35:40

I take ds into the gents, he's a boy and boys use the gents.... I don't look at the men using the facilities and they don't look at me. We get in, ds goes, wash his hands (if no soap we use hand wipes) and make our way out... Why take him to the ladies when he is a boy?

Touchmybum Thu 24-Jan-13 13:12:49

Because you are a "lady"? I have no wish to go into the gents' toilets.

EverybodysSnowyEyed Thu 24-Jan-13 14:02:27

So ladies feel uncomfortable about having a pre pubescent boy in their toilets, but they think men should be happy to have women waltzing into the gents with their sons

I think that is a bigger double standard

My son will use the gents when and where I think it is appropriate. In the meantime by taking him to the ladies I am teaching him how to deal with heavy doors, high sinks, odd soap dispensers etc. I have no idea how long I will as he is only 5 but it will stop before he hits puberty.

boredSAHMof4 Thu 24-Jan-13 14:23:12

My sons would have been mortified to be taken into the ladies at 6 let alone 8.
I really don't believe supermarket toilets which are checked every hour pose a significant risk to children.
I guess at the end of the day , it is up to ASDA to legislate on maximum age of children in wrong sex toilet.

ByTheWay1 Thu 24-Jan-13 14:38:17

If women are taking their boys into the ladies toilets for safety issues, then they are just as safe if women take them into the gents.

The gents will not become safer for teenage boys to use if we do nothing other than stop younger boys from using them. Ignoring the safety issue does not make it go away

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Thu 24-Jan-13 14:39:02

No-one had yet to explain why an 8 year old boy shouldn't be allowed in the ladies lavatories?

Every parent should feel confident in their parenting choices, but op was pulled up by some busy-body that decided to judge her on bringing a small boy into the toilets. When someone insults your intelligence it's no wonder op bit tbh.

We as parents & individuals make choices to avoid risk on a daily basis.
Why risk something happening when there is absolutely nothing wrong in an 8yo boy being in there with his mother?

Please someone explain what is wrong with a young boy being there?
Because i just don't get it?

Tortington Thu 24-Jan-13 14:47:21

i think this is a wind up - never the less, i shall contribute in the hope that my answer may help someone a all somewhere ever.

I am not one of those that thinks that there is a paedo round every corner - truly am not, however i have read of two sexual attacks on children in supermarket toilets quite recently.

for that reason i think its fine an 8 year old accompanies his parent to the lav - who gives a shit anyway - its not like you have your fanny out for all to see.

the lady expressed an opinion - it was rude of her to do so, non of her hunness if you ask me.

You were more than rude - wth your 'miserable cow' comment, you lowered yourself even for ASDA standard, and i am ashamed to call you a mumsnetter.

ByTheWay1 Thu 24-Jan-13 14:49:57

OK - what is wrong with a boy being in the ladies, is that there ARE perfectly good toilets available FOR BOYS - they are called the gents.

If a mother thinks the gents are unsafe or unsavoury for their boys to use - they should be DOING something about it, not moving the issue elsewhere. They should be taking their children to the gents - and complaining like hell if there are problems, if there are "perverts" lingering around, they should be reporting them to the authorities, trying to get the situation changed, not putting their heads in the proverbial sand and expecting the problem to go away.

When their boys are no longer PREpubescent, they will STILL be at risk in these places because NOTHING will have changed. Am I to expect the queues to get even longer, with 12/13/14 year olds joining it too.

pinkmagic1 Thu 24-Jan-13 14:57:24

So Custardo, you have never said anything in the heat of the moment that you realised after might not have been the best way to handle the situation? Like I have said before, unfortunately I am not as perfect as some of you and maybe I should just fuck off to netmums with my Asda shopping habit and JK style behaviour!

Tortington Thu 24-Jan-13 15:03:37

perhaps you should dear

Primafacie Thu 24-Jan-13 15:05:41

"JK style behaviour" - that stands for Jackie Kennedy, right? wink

LouiseFisher Thu 24-Jan-13 15:06:10

I wouldn't have screamed at her but told her in a polite manner to mind her own business!

pinkmagic1 Thu 24-Jan-13 15:07:17

Maybe I shall and I will have a gregs sausage roll on the way and leave you all to your pearl clutching!

You were more than rude - wth your 'miserable cow' comment, you lowered yourself even for ASDA standard, and i am ashamed to call you a mumsnetter.

Now that has to be the funniest thing I've read in a while! Op I'll join you in a greggs sausage roll

Touchmybum Thu 24-Jan-13 16:49:28

For goodness' sake, the maturity level of an 8 year old when confronted with a 'situation' is much different to a 14 year old.

I'm not out to save the world either. I just would like to keep my own children safe.

So, if I want to bring my son to the toilet with me when he is 40, I shall exercise my free will to do so.

Only by then, it is more likely that he will be bringing me, his elderly mama, to the toilet with him. Mens or ladies?!

LineRunner Thu 24-Jan-13 17:00:28

They should be taking their children to the gents - and complaining like hell if there are problems, if there are "perverts" lingering around, they should be reporting them to the authorities, trying to get the situation changed, not putting their heads in the proverbial sand and expecting the problem to go away.

The normal response to this, following police advice, has been temporary or permanent closure of the toilets, unfortunately.

EverybodysSnowyEyed Thu 24-Jan-13 18:16:12

Touchmybum

My foreign grandparents once visited and a my gran was terminally ill my grandad had to take her to the ladies. He was shouted at but just had to get on with it. He was very puzzled because in his home country it was not seen as such a problem.

Luckily there are disabled toilets these days.

Today I took my ds to the ladies. He is a tall 5 year old and there was no way he could reach the soap dispenser or the taps.

AntimonySalts Thu 24-Jan-13 19:54:46

I take my 8 y o son into the ladies' loos, so I don't agree with the lady who objected to the OP.

However, I agree even less with your behaviour, OP. It was rude, unnecessary and, to answer your original question, you were beyond unreasonable to behave like that. There's no point accusing people who can behave of being 'perfect' and 'pearl-clutching': not shouting at people (and particularly strangers in public) is basic manners. I would be shocked if my children did it; I'm even more shocked to discover that some adults do it.

Touchmybum Thu 24-Jan-13 23:52:49

Your poor grandad, EverybodysSnowyEyed.

Sometimes some of us who are less than perfect just lose it a little bit. Not everyone manages to be rational and controlled. Blame the hormones personally...

countrykitten Fri 25-Jan-13 07:44:26

Excellent. It's the hormones. If a man said that he would be accused of misogyny..

It was downright rude and vile and thankfully most people would not have behaved in such a disgusting manner.

Touchmybum Fri 25-Jan-13 13:14:42

Tongue in cheek countrykitten.

It was an overreaction. Same as your last post.

AntimonySalts Fri 25-Jan-13 14:33:36

"It was downright rude and vile and thankfully most people would not have behaved in such a disgusting manner."

Well said, countrykitten. Thankfully I don't know anyone at all in RL who would think it was okay to speak to someone as the OP did. I think some people on this thread must inhabit some kind of virtual reality where they think it's okay to behave like characters in some particularly unpleasant soap opera.

Touchmybum Fri 25-Jan-13 15:10:19

It must be pleasant in Utopia.

ethelb Fri 25-Jan-13 15:14:16

8 year old girls go to the loo on their own generally.

Plus people have to wait for 8 year old boys while they use the ladies, when the mens is empty.

PessaryPam Fri 25-Jan-13 15:37:44

I think countrykitten must be the lady that was shouted at. What a small world.

AntimonySalts Fri 25-Jan-13 16:59:02

How weird for a world in which people don't hurl abuse at one another to be regarded as 'Utopia'. I'd have thought it was just basic good manners. confused

countrykitten Fri 25-Jan-13 18:05:28

Yes - very weird indeed. Thankfully I don't know people like these in RL.

Touchmybum Fri 25-Jan-13 22:56:18

I'd like to know in which part of the world then does this rare perfection exist... where no-one is ever rude to anyone else....? Balamory? Peppa Pig land? I've come across all sorts of people in my life. People who would never be rude, people who are habitually rude, people who are uncharacteristically rude for whatever reason...

Perhaps a little realism is required.

MerylStrop Fri 25-Jan-13 23:02:44

8 year old boys, should be using the men's loos, unless SEN means they need to be accompanied, or there is some other special set of circumstances.

You were horrible to shout at her, even if you disagreed with her opinion.

Touchmybum Sat 26-Jan-13 00:36:33

My child will use whichever toilet I decide he should use, for so long as I wish it.

And it is no-one else's business but mine.

countrykitten Sat 26-Jan-13 08:41:25

TMB could you actually be any more pompous? At least your ridiculous post gave me a good laugh.

withreality Sat 26-Jan-13 08:53:04

I am a dad with 2 girls aged 8 and 6. Since i was sexually assaulted by a woman in a school toilet aged 5 there is no way i would allow my girls to go into the womens toilets on their own. Equally because of the open urinals in mens toilets (which would be better cubicled for everyoness privacy anyway) I wouldn't take them into the gents unless the gents is empty at the time. Most of the time this has meant using the disabled, however there have been times when I have taken them into the ladies. This has caused some strange looks but this is nothing knew since I had the same experience when using baby changes which were sometimes situated in womens toilets. Womens toilets are cubicled, i dont go peering around and by protecting my children I am not breaking any laws, personally i would rather take the odd look or comment more than I would learning that my daughter was uncomfortable or abused.