wft the barbie labiaplasty gone mad

(139 Posts)
scrummummy Fri 18-Jan-13 20:19:26

this article in jezabel

jezebel.com/5977025/unhappy-with-your-gross-vagina-why-not-try-the-barbie

who in their right mind

recall Fri 18-Jan-13 20:21:40

I know, getting your labia cut off....fuckin stupid

pamish Fri 18-Jan-13 20:27:52

It's taken ten thousand years of civilisation to get here.

urgh... i'm cringing at the thought... i don't want anything sharp down there, thanks very much!

Loquace Fri 18-Jan-13 20:29:40

I.......... have no words.

Is this really what we want for the next generation of women? Monthly arse bleaching, half your vulva chopped off, rip all the hair out every so often, stick some glitter and "fragrance" up it to get it looking and smelling like a stocking filler rather than a genital area.

I feel like flashing my aged fluffy bits up and down the highstreet to help "renormalise" things.

scrummummy Fri 18-Jan-13 20:35:39

I though the athletic comment was funny.

They're there for a reason (I dunno what it is but our bodies must have decided they are necessary).

discorabbit Fri 18-Jan-13 20:38:11

i thought the athletic comment was right odd!

i'd hate to mess with my bits, i'm sure mine wouldn't win prizes but they do the job they are designed to do and any messing might mean they don't work as well. not really worth the risk for vanity before even thinking about other reasons why women would be tempted to go for it.

fluffyraggies Fri 18-Jan-13 20:47:35

Are there any men getting a 'bollock lift', smoothing those ugly, prunish testicles?

Thought not hmm

FarrahFawcettsFlick Fri 18-Jan-13 21:00:04

..."An unobtrusive vulva that's becoming increasingly minimalist"

Sounds like I should be calling John Pawson to re-design my floosey.

<goes off to call World of Interiors to do a feature 'spread'>

Loquace Fri 18-Jan-13 21:00:45

fluffyraggies

Scrotum lift

grin well you did ask!

OneWaySystemBlues Fri 18-Jan-13 21:06:01

It seems odd that on one hand people, rightly, object to female circumcision, which is deemed necessary in some cultures for marriage and sex (i.e. to please men); yet in our culture some people are prepared to do this to themselves - again to please men - and don't see the irony. It is crazy.

Naysa Fri 18-Jan-13 21:09:02

Howling at the scrotal lift!

Can't imagine anyone going down there. I don't even lie my DP's head down there let alone a doctor with a knife!

scrummummy Fri 18-Jan-13 21:09:29

how about scrotum removal the ken look... and bits extensions. If men want our lippy bits removed for their esthetic lets switch it round and demand that they have the dagly wrinkled sack sliced off for that pristine ken look.

then we can have a reality tv show about kens meeting barbies in their weird little worlds where genital uniqueness does not exist

Cortana Fri 18-Jan-13 21:26:16

This blog seems to be doing a lot of good work, helping women normalise their own bodies rather than a surgical ideal.

Link from original article, does have pictures of vulva. Obviously not a link to click if you're sitting with DC.

meadow2 Fri 18-Jan-13 21:31:24

I had it after childbirth first time.I was under general and had no pain.Was definitely worth it

ThePathanKhansWitch Fri 18-Jan-13 21:37:25

I am flumoxed, ffs they give birth, give and recieve pleasure, self cleaning now my genitals have to look pretty?

<faints at arse bleaching>

Cortana Fri 18-Jan-13 21:44:48

Do you mind if I ask what made it worth it for you Meadow?

confusteling Fri 18-Jan-13 21:48:21

I had that a couple of years back for medical problems. Was very hard to get and involved a few consultants discussing it. Very very painful but so worth it for the end results, no more severe pain down there! Would never suggest it as a solution to thinking you have an ugly foof but mine does look a lot tidier without four inches of cracked, bleeding and semi transparent skin hanging from it!

CunningPlan Fri 18-Jan-13 21:48:43

Anyone else noticed that almost none of those pictures features any pubic hair? Is it really that common these days?

meadow2 Fri 18-Jan-13 21:51:31

After my first baby they didnt stitch me and my entire labia on one side ripped off/in two pieces.

As they forgot to stitch it, it then couldnt be repaired so I had to go back months later and be put under general.I now have no labia on one side but the procedure didnt hurt and no loss of sexual pleasure etc.Much better than before as it was really irritating and kept getting thrush, and then it got all swollen as it was hanging down, and Im glad they sorted it for me.

Loquace Fri 18-Jan-13 21:51:41

If men want our lippy bits removed

But do they ?

Is this a "thing" now where b/f pull back saying "OMG no barbie bits, no bonking!"

Or is a doctors creating a "need" put of thin air andnpushing it like some kind of ideal none of us knew even exisited ?

I know the op has been around a while. Some women probably do benefit from a reduction for comfort reasons and asthtics if proportion is normal, but still on the far larger side of normal thannthey are happy with.

But Barbie? Promoting a "clam shell" ?

Sounds like profit margin motivated to me. Create a need where none was before and make a mint.

confusteling Fri 18-Jan-13 21:52:09

I never had mine completely cut, just enough that there's no protrusion at all. They did a clitoral hood trim as well although that wasnt entirely my decision!

SirBoobAlot Fri 18-Jan-13 21:53:57

That blog is wonderful smile

Haberdashery Fri 18-Jan-13 21:55:42

>> They did a clitoral hood trim as well although that wasnt entirely my decision!

Genuinely aghast at the cheery exclamation mark at the end there. Someone who is not you is taking decisions about your genitals?

fallenangle Fri 18-Jan-13 21:56:21

cunning yes pubic hair seems to be endangered.

Cortana Fri 18-Jan-13 21:59:07

I don't know Cunning, I assumed it was done to show the vulva more clearly, i.e. difference in size, shape and colours.

Thank you for your response Meadow, I now realise what a personal question that was, I hope you didn't feel you had to answer. I think after a birth trauma like that I'd be open to the procedure too.

confusteling Fri 18-Jan-13 22:00:24

Well GP was having a look and mentioned that the top bits were all "damaged" too and that it would need a repair. Then consultant said she'd trim the lot to make it look even and more natural.. I had originally been assessed for the ends of the labia and that was what I wanted fixed, never knew the lot of it was "wrong"..

StickEmUp Fri 18-Jan-13 22:01:25

I just pulled my trosuers down, showed dh my vagina and asked if there was anything offencive about how it was.
He said no.
Also he said the same thing as wha i thought.
People have too much time to think shit up and too much money to spend on procedures!

Loquace Fri 18-Jan-13 22:02:16

yes pubic hair seems to be endangered

We need some tufts stuck on a placard, in an appealing sad faced panda sort of way.

And then riase awareness of its imminent extinction! Rasie Funds!! Save The Fluffy Bits!!!

I can provide the tufts. Have pleanty to spare. grin

LesBOFerables Fri 18-Jan-13 22:02:41

The Daily Mash on the theme.

Cortana Fri 18-Jan-13 22:06:06

Ah pubic hair grows back Loquace, they're not going to be extinct, they'll be back soon enough. grin

blackeyedsusan Fri 18-Jan-13 22:11:25

fuck no... <winces> infected stitches after child birth is enough to mke me think no thanks...

fallenangle Fri 18-Jan-13 22:17:49

Loquace havent you seen the daytime TV advert. 'Just £5 will keep Fallen's crotch neatly trimmed and vagajelled for a whole month.'

What the fuck is wrong with society?! Why is this becoming seen as a sensible thing to do?!

I loath the fact that both women and men for that matter are being pressurised to be someone's idea of perfect, I just get visions of a factory line with people all coming out looking identical, sod the thoughts bring identical because let's be honest nobody is bothered about personalities these days. <weeps for humankind>

I'm truly terrified for future generations.

Oh and as a side note - has anyone ever been in a passionate clinch and had their partner shriek in horror at a non uniform labia? No, didn't think so .... I've certainly never had sex with anyone and taken the time to inspect their genitalia to make sure it scores a pass to continue. hmm

Although I have had requests for anal bleaching before at work!

Cortana Fri 18-Jan-13 22:22:15

I do hope you work in a beauty parlor rather than McDonalds Titsalina

fallenangle Fri 18-Jan-13 22:22:17

tits I hope you don't work in Tesco!

SoggySummer Fri 18-Jan-13 22:23:04

OMG! shock

Go for a 70's styleeeee full on hairy bush - then any flap issues will be hidden.

Surely the bush with volume is the way to go and al ot less painful than having the minoras removed???? [ouch emotion]

Luckily it was a salon! I can't imagine the results some tesco value anal bleach would have... <shudders>

Cortana Fri 18-Jan-13 22:28:21

"tesco value anal bleach" grin

scrummummy Fri 18-Jan-13 22:37:36

I just find it all a bit odd that's all. Its bad enough when medics make choices on our behalf, my DH has just reminded me that when I was being stitched by the midwife, she said "Don't worry- I'll make sure hubby's happy". Well she was wrong, things were pretty uncomfortable from that point on, and no he wasn't happy either.

Surgery is dangerous at the best of times and doesn't come with a warranty.

Interestingly on the side topic... there was an article in the Sunday Times culture section a few weeks back, where an Art Historian has suggested that pubic depilation has been going on since the 16th century and has uncovered an Italian recipe for "veet" that included acid and mercury and only keep on til the skin gets hot eeeeek. Can't remember the book title though.

Darkesteyes Fri 18-Jan-13 22:38:21

Titsalina im afraid some men do expect women to be their idea of perfect. I totally despair for society too. Just makes me depressed when i think about things like this.

Check this out especially the second paragraph.

www.getthegloss.com/article/going-south-my-first-bikini-wax-in-20-years

MsVestibule Fri 18-Jan-13 22:39:01

I guess as full pubic hair removal for women is becoming the norm, it follows that everything will need to look neat and tidy down there. And if that means mutilating ourselves to do it, it's a small price to pay...

Maybe it's as a result of my advanced age, but if a man expressed any horror at the sight of my non-trimmed labia and full bush, he really could fuck off to the far side of fuck. But would I have felt so confident when I was twenty? I don't know.

meadow2 Fri 18-Jan-13 22:41:42

I am younger and have never felt any need to remove publlic hair, and neither do a lot of my friends.Never known a man to mention it.I think many young women are confident not to care msvestibule its definitely not a universal thing.

Spuddybean Fri 18-Jan-13 22:43:56

tits - i've said this before on MN. I do know men who discuss the visual aspects of the lady gardens on the women they have slept with. I also have heard them say some things about labia dangling ('wind chimes' and 'squashed hedgehogs'). I also had an experience of someone i was going to sleep with (one of these charmers btw) who put his hands down my pants and recoiled in horror saying 'it's weird you don't shave your fanny' and then say he didn't want to have sex with me but i could give him a bj. He did offer anal to as an alternative, so he was clearly giving me some attractive options - i chose neither.

I am so tempted to flash my tufty bits at this thread grin

Of course there can be medical reasons for labioplasty, but for looking 'nicer' - WTAF??
DH and I recently stayed in a rather unique castle-hotel near in Holland with a Dutch magazine provided in the bathroom. It had an article about some artist or other who had photographed dozens of lady bits to show just how different and unique they all were: there was hairy ones, and bald ones, and tiny-lipped ones, and flappy ones, and asymmetrical ones, and pink ones, and more <hmm> beigey-coloured ones - the list goes on. DH and I poured over them all. It was not in the least pornographic or titillating - v well-lit, full-frontal, white background, kinda plain photos. Absolutely fascinating. I wihs more people would see that kind of stuff. There is a great website with photographs of normal breasts - I have used that in the past when woman with perfectly normal, 'nice' breast come looking for breast surgery. I wish I remembered the artist's name. Neither of us can read Dutch, so I have no idea what the article said. The rest of the magazine was full of fashion and make-up and music reviews and such grin.
Btw, Dh and I are both drs, we see more that our fair share of genitalia, and from what I see every day pubes have definitely gone AWOL for the time being....
Not seen any bleached bums yet - that I know of...

MsVestibule Fri 18-Jan-13 22:46:26

meadow2 I have this idea (partly from MN) that all women under the age of 35 have it all whipped off, and all men are horrified if they're confronted with a stray pube. I'm delighted to hear I'm completely wrong!

Cortana Fri 18-Jan-13 22:46:31

Doesn't have to follow MrsV, I remove my pubic hair sometimes, I have no intention of having surgery on my genitals unless it was as the result of a trauma such as that mentioned upthread.

That said, my pubes are my business and no one elses. I'd hate to think someone felt they had to do something to their body that they were not comfortable with, regardless of age or confidence.

Pooka Fri 18-Jan-13 22:47:10

Jesus wept.

Feel really sad and depressed by the labiaplasty AND the lack of pubic hair.

Used to think to. Hollander was all right - seemed a jolly sort. Now I just think he is a tosser.

Am sad for my dd. I would the for her to feel that she needs to have waxes or, worse, surgery, in Order to conform and not have idiotic porn watching men judge her on the prettiness of her vagina.

Darkesteyes Fri 18-Jan-13 22:47:10

Spuddybean the only anal (the only form of sex he would have got from me is my winter boot up his arse. What an arsehole.

Speaking of arseholes.
From the link above....

There I was, merrily treading water, marvelling at my bravery and the welcome increased sobriety, when an actor friend who shall remain nameless (Tom Hollander) swam past sporting a large pair of goggles (surely against the rules when skinny dipping?). Anyway, he ducked dived right in front of me, only to surface very rapidly, huffing and puffing for air. He was slack-jawed with a mixture of horror and shock. “Jesus Christ!” he exclaimed, just about daring to glance below. “Have you completely given up?”

I fucking despair. I really do <head desk.> <facepalm>

Pooka Fri 18-Jan-13 22:47:45

I would hate for her...

Cortana Fri 18-Jan-13 22:48:24

X-Post MsV also apologies for getting your name wrong.

MsVestibule Fri 18-Jan-13 22:48:27

Spuddybean shock, just shock.

meadow2*, your post has cheered me up no end, honestly.

What the fucking fuck???

I remember about 10 years ago looking up pictures of genital piercings (trying to decide which ones I could physically get), and it was fantastic to look at this huge variety and know that I was utterly normal. They were like fingerprints, no two were the same! How fucked up is it that women and men have been sold this idea of what genitals should look like?! There is no should about it! Can you imagine someone saying, "your fingerprint is wrong, it needs to look like someone elses"? We're all individuals, why on earth should we look like we've rolled off a production line?!

shock

if my dh ever said anything negative about my bits id kick him in his

its shocking that there are girls out there that are thinking their fanjos arent normal angry i mean wtf??

ThePathanKhansWitch Fri 18-Jan-13 23:11:56

See thats the thing with womens vulvas/vaginas, most women only encounter them in porn.
So the first fanny you see is likely to be bald,bleached and fuck knows what.

My Aunt told me to get a mirror and have alook and tbh I was horrified/fascinated at the same time.
I knew mines didn,t look anything like the vaginas in brothers jazz mags.

We all see male genitals represented in art etc, but never a full on out there vagina/vulva.

Only breasts are bandied about and critiqued.

Maybe I,ll join Loquace and flash mine.Just wear a t-shirt with the legend
THIS IS A REALITY VAGINA grin

Still can,t believe people bleach their arse holes, why?

Darkesteyes Fri 18-Jan-13 23:15:59

The worlds gone fucking mad. Ive never had a bikini wax in my life. And ive never encountered the "Hollander attitude" personally.
My relationships have been with men quite a bit older than me though so maybe thats part of the reason.

I naturally have no labia minora, I wonder if I went to that surgeon if he'd be offering to carve me some nice new flaps out of my earlobes of something? or a flap transplant from some poor woman getting hers lopped off? hmm It wouldn't surprise me, seems they'll do anything for the money! Very immoral.

Loquace Sat 19-Jan-13 00:55:28

Loquace havent you seen the daytime TV advert

No, blimming Italian telly not selling me vaggie things. Although, not true actually now I think of it, an alarming amount of Italian women appear to have a terrible urge to inform all their freinds with sad face that they can't go for an appertivo, cos their fluffy bits itch. Then freinds take them to the chemist, a tube of pink cream dances, and everybody smiles and drinks digusting flavoured horrible non alcoholic orange coloured shit in celebration.

Oh and there is special fluffy bits soap called "Chilly", which I find a bit off putting as a name actually.

<flashes thread with aged fluffy bits, complete with labia minor>

Don't panic! I just bideted them. Have got some standards grin

Why do people bleach their bums? Well it got popular in porn from what I hear. So the bum blends in with the rest of the skin tones.

I point blank refuse to go into doggy style for a beutician. And that is before we add the chemicals to anus issues I harbour.

I tell you what, don't envy beauticians these days. Images of relaxing facials replaced with the world shoving their bumhole at you so you can flay it with wax and then give it a nice chemical burn.

Dear God, just five minutes ago we were burning our bras and now we are frying our anuses, chopping off our butterflies and blowing our boobies up to massive proportions.

I think a wrong turn was taken somewhere.

BunFagFreddie Sat 19-Jan-13 05:19:09

Sweet Jesus. What the hell does that surgeon mean by giving it a more athletic look? How is that athletic. When I imagine an athletic snatch it involves a Thai lady and a ping pong ball. The size of the inner labia is irrelevant. confused

I'm beyond shocked, but also very glad that I don't care what my minge looks like.

And yy, hairy ones are an endagered species.

I am shock - when people said bum bleaching I thought they meant hair bleaching, a bit of Jolen instead of waxing, but they actually bleach their bum skin??! I hope I have misunderstood....

BunFagFreddie Sat 19-Jan-13 07:55:47

Yeah, they actually bleach the devil's eye! shock

TroublesomeEx Sat 19-Jan-13 07:58:39

I am astounded. I have begun to 'trim and edge' and think I'm a bit radical for that!

I mean they're not pretty things. They're not really supposed to be. But I had no idea it was something else I was supposed to feel inadequate about.

<adds imperfect genitals to list of insecurities>

meadow2 Sat 19-Jan-13 08:01:50

All this is not really common though.When I had mine done the dr said he didnt really see many people who have had it done unless there is a medical reason.Also its not like in rl anyone knows anyone whos had their bum bleached.

Also yes ms vestibule definitely dont think in rl everyone removes all their pubic hair.The only time I have known everyone under 35 is meant to be doing it is on here.

shock shock shock

Surely there's got to be a backlash coming against this sort of thing?
Glad to hear meadow as a token younger than 30 saying that this is not necessarily representative - these things do tend to get blown out of proportion

oh no that sounded awful, I didn't mean you are a token young person, I meant you're the only one who has identified yourself as so, so I'm taking your comments as being on behalf...
<stops digging>
<hands over spade>

MsVestibule Sat 19-Jan-13 08:43:48

SPB I really should stop assuming that any info I receive on MN are true facts! And I hope any backlash starts before my DD starts becoming bothered by this sort of thing. Will also have to make sure DS knows women come in all shapes and sizes, and shock horror, may have furry bits.

Meadow2 I can well believe that anal bleaching isn't common, and cosmetic surgery on one's labia even less so, but it bothers me that it's even available! As with a lot of these things, what starts out as a rarity fairly quickly becomes commonplace.

Branleuse Sat 19-Jan-13 08:53:37

Is it really something thats in danger of becoming the norm, or something that girls feel pressurised to do? It makes me wince, but Im not particularly worried that girls are now going to feel they need to go and get themselves circumcised

BunFagFreddie Sat 19-Jan-13 09:08:41

Even if someone had gone and had anal bleaching, would they tell anyone?

What's wrong with having our bits as nature intended?

Loquace Sat 19-Jan-13 09:22:51

Even if someone had gone and had anal bleaching, would they tell anyone?

Well it used to be if you Quant-ed your pubes you didn't shout about it, was a bit "racy" grin Not so much these days where there are threads all,over the web between women discussing their personal topary for all to see.

Just start a thread "is your pubis a baldy?" People rush to reveal all.

So, dunno, maybe anal bleaching started as a personal secret for lovers only but will become something women discuss over a coffee...

"must dash, have to go turn my choclate spider back to vanilla again, Joleen managed to fit me in between a permenant vajazzle, and a clit "perfect colour" tattoo and she'll get the hump if I'm late. Laters!"

BunFagFreddie Sat 19-Jan-13 09:35:27

"must dash, have to go turn my choclate spider back to vanilla again,

Thanks, that gave a very grumpy woman a good chuckle this mornning. grin

ErikNorseman Sat 19-Jan-13 09:38:37

It's gross, and really sad. 'Clam shell'? Ie prepubescent, like a baby's vulva? Hairless and puffy with no gross adult bits? Foul. Do people not understand what this trend means?

VikingVagine Sat 19-Jan-13 09:43:23

shock sad angry biscuit

BunFagFreddie Sat 19-Jan-13 09:57:36

It is prepubescent, I'm digusted to be honest. You get to the stage where you think you've seen everything that could possibly shock you, but there's still more!

retrocutie Sat 19-Jan-13 10:12:40

Unhappiness with your bits is nothing new, I can remember being ashamed of mine as long ago as when I was in primary school. I always felt my bits were ugly and wanted them changed. This is years before the surgery was available. And no, I hadn't compared them with anything I had seen in a magazine, just my friends at school.

JustAHolyFool Sat 19-Jan-13 10:15:54

It just makes me cringe, seriously.

I was once with a guy who said my vulva was a bit odd, because of the lips. I've never had a complaint or comment before or since, so I can only assume it's not odd. Either way, I'm happy with it so his comment didn't bother me.

It makes me mad that he said it though. Twat.

Loquace Sat 19-Jan-13 10:18:25

Twat

Heh!

BunFagFreddie Sat 19-Jan-13 10:26:59

The thing is, I never really see mine, so I don't worry about how it looks. I've given birth and I enjoy sex, so everything seems to be tickety boo. If a man complained about what it looked like, that would be the last he ever saw of it!

Loquace Sat 19-Jan-13 10:30:48

Pretty much with you Bun

One strike and you're out.

Like that git who complained my boobs were too small.

Well you won't mind withdrawl of grope priveledges will you then, you berk!

Ditto the guy who said "it'll be like humping a bag of bones". Not that I'd even offered at that point.

How come it is the guys who are not exactly Davids themselves who feel so free to do body critique ? hmm Projecting much?

BunFagFreddie Sat 19-Jan-13 10:35:02

So true Loquace. Anyone would think they're god's gift the way some of them carry on. I've been out with some right charmers in my time. Saggy tits, funny shape, stringy, my arse is too small. I sound like a catch right? grin

fluffyraggies Sat 19-Jan-13 11:08:31

Discussing this with DH. DH is mid 30s, all male work place.

His first reaction was 'Pah, it's all you women worrying about it, not the men! It's all in your minds.'

I asked specifically if he or his mates ever discuss women's bits in a derogatory way and he said yes, specially the younger ones - early 20s.

sad

I said so it's NOT all in our bloomin' minds then. Young boys have free and easy access to porn these days and are expecting to find women's bodies in RL to be the same ..... bla bla

Now he's all defensive saying most of it's all talk, after all men's bits are ugly as fuck, and it doesn't personally bother him what a girls bits look like as long as the bits are "clean and 'looked after'" - whatever that means!

Trimmed i guess. I've been trimming since my teens, so perhaps it's just a happy accident that my bits meet my DHs requirements. sigh.

It's all so sad. We've 3 DDs and i hope they never encounter the awful attitude of some of the young blokes out there (and older one's) in their lives.

Iamsparklyknickers Sat 19-Jan-13 11:18:55

Love the last line of that article, sums up perfectly what women 'should' think about their genitals.

"Photoshopped images of "minimalist" vag that there's no such thing as a perfect vagina. Wait, scratch that: there is such a thing as a perfect vagina. It looks exactly like yours."

Mia4 Sat 19-Jan-13 11:22:21

Urgh to the nickname 'the barbie', why do so many think 'barbie' is perfect-perfect figure, hair...what's next? Nipples lopped off, because I don't remember Barbie having them!

LP for a medical reason needs to not be lumped into this debate (which some of the Jezebel comments seem to be doing, thankfully not MN), I remember seeing a poor 20 year old on embarrassing bodies who hadn't been allowed a referral. One lip was largish, the other much larger (double size!) and very obviously different but the real issue was the sores on the larger one from rubbing and catching and the amount of times she's 'split' that lip because of the friction. Her LP didn't reduce the largist labia, just brought the other in line with it, meaning no friction and pain, especially during sex.

I remember how pleased my sister and I was when we were watching the 'sex education show' on channel 4. They dispelled the 'perfect vagina' myth by showing portraits and photos of many different types which really surprised the kids and made the girls seem a lot more relieved- hey all said they felt more normal-and the boys were surprised at the variation but it showed them there's no 'perfect vaj' either and you couldn't judge. They did the opposie with cocks and the results were flipped- boys relieved, girls surprised and realising there's no 'perfect cock'.

Personally i think Sex Ed should show teens people are all different, that they'res no normal or thing to aspire to but that we are all unique and awesome.

confusteling Sat 19-Jan-13 11:34:56

All this is not really common though.When I had mine done the dr said he didnt really see many people who have had it done unless there is a medical reason.Also its not like in rl anyone knows anyone whos had their bum bleached.

This, exactly. Of all the people I had seen, my GP had only ever had one other patient who had a similar operation - and she's been working for over 20 years, in more than one continent.. Surgeon had very little experience of it - as had her colleague from London; both said they were "nervous" as it wasn't something they were used to except in cases of vulvar cancer. None of the nurses had ever seen such a thing before. The nurse and the midwife who provided my aftercare had never seen anything like it - they were relying on their midwifery experience to know what to do, and they said even that wasn't really helpful as it's very rare for anyone to have stitches through their clitoral area!

It can't be half as common as the media make it out to be, certainly not in the NHS anyway. I remember an outraged DM article that this operation was available at all - as people were getting it on the NHS - but it really is something they will only do for medical problems and it's very much a last resort. Rightly so, as it's not an easy surgery to go through and not one without potentially awful side effects (loss of functioning, loss of a natural appearance, dramatic changes in skin colour and texture, chronic nerve pain, numbness).

I've worked with young teens on such issues before, and have googled, the amount of people who think they aren't "normal" is really sad to be honest. You don't even need to have watched porn or anything - I showed a friend when I was eleven and I remember her laughing and asking why I looked so weird. Granted in my case it was very obviously abnormal (for instance, I've looked at vulval photos and have never seen one matching what I had, the only times I have is through medical journals!!) but this doesn't seem to be uncommon. I really think that as part of sex education girls and boys should be shown images of genitalia and the various differences that can occur.

But to be honest as long as cosmetic surgery is legal these things are going to happen, sadly.

Xales Sat 19-Jan-13 11:40:13

Well to be honest. I have considered this. I regret not doing it when I was younger everytime they get caught by my knicker elastic and pulled it is painful.

I then have to find somewhere to get them out as I can imagine the comments if I tried to adjust parts down there in the middle of the shopping mall so have to walk trying not pull them more.

confusteling Sat 19-Jan-13 11:46:45

Xales

Have you discussed it with a GP or someone similar - family planning clinics and the like are often very good for advice? I used to have the same issues and had to charge off to shop changing rooms if I couldn't find a public loo. Worst was if I couldn't sort it for ages (e.g. in class at school) because I'd end up bleeding.

GP might be able to prescribe you something to keep the skin moisturised and a bit softer, I was prescribed aqueous cream/50 50 emollient and a shower wash to keep the area a bit softer. Did help as it wasn't so dry and not so likely to get sore. Someone suggested using KY gel too.

The other thing that can help is wearing bigger knickers (supermarkets are good for big granny pants!) and looking for ones without fancy seams (I will never forget the first time I wore lacy knicks and my mum had to cut them off with scissors!) as there's less to irritate the skin.

I did work out when I was about thirteen that if I bent down, in a certain way, gravity naturally allowed everything to fall back into place which helped but people must have wondered why I was forever crouching down...

shock

After reading this thread I discovered that my human biology wasn't up to scratch and that there we posess two different types of labia. So I googled labia minora expecting to find an array of anatomical diagrams showing me what the difference was. Except, I was given lots of before and after photographs which says to me that this is perhaps a lot more common than we realise!

Again shock

Loquace Sat 19-Jan-13 12:05:06

Well to be honest. I have considered this.

But I think there is a massive difference between having it done for the reasons why it was invented, (discomfort, damage due to accident or childbirth) and "asthetics conformation" for your average woman.

The same way that breast reduction/enlargement has it's place where pain, discomfort, breast loss, extreme lack asymetrical size, notable sagging at a young age are issues.

But the idea that we need boobies blown up to a certain cup size and required "bounceyness" or vulvas conforming to a certain degree of "tidyness"...that is an issue.

The docs I think are promoting the idea with an eye on improving their income stream. Some, probably in America will go all "ahead of a trend" on it, and then it will seep into the general idea of normal and then spread to europe etc.

Just like the vajazzle and "attack of the weed whacker" on pubes did.

Sticking glitter and sequins on your baldy muff isn't a big deal in the bog scheme ofmthings I guess. But if it is part of a bigger picture that demands conformity and "prettying up" of women's genitals, then it is a bit more worrying.

I'm going to dig out a link to that "art" plastercast display of lots of vaginas and save it somehwere safe to have it at the ready for when boyo is a big boy, just so he has something normal to compare to the messages he is possibly going to be hearing. I don't want him inadvertantly becoming part of a new wave of squashing women via thier knicker and bra contents.

Damn it. This should not be part of my job as a mother of a boy.

Fucking "elective and unnessary focused" plastic surgoens and their insatiable greed for Gucci.

ILikeBirds Sat 19-Jan-13 12:08:20

Educating people on the range of normal variation is great, but this includes not dismissing what is normal for some as 'unnatural' or 'prepubescent' or somehow not a real women. Some people have longer labia others have very small inner labia, neither is 'better'

I remember teenage friends discussing pubic hair removal and the argument being made that it didn't make women look like children genitals were obviously that of a women and not a girl. I worried that I wasn't normal because only my outer labia were visible.

Diversity is great, the problem is the idea that there is an ideal, not what that ideal is.

Loquace Sat 19-Jan-13 12:08:28

edit requied

But the idea that we need boobies blown up to a certain cup size and required "bounceyness" or vulvas conforming to a certain degree of "tidyness" as a matter of course, accross the board ..that is an issue.

Loquace Sat 19-Jan-13 12:12:18

problem is the idea that there is an ideal, not what that ideal is

That.

It is the squahingness of trying to squeeze all,women into a tiny corner of variation that is the issue. It's not like an op to inject sillicone implants into labia to give an idealized "plumpness" would be any better.

Just get them off our tits and bits !

<dusts off placard>

<tippexes over "poll tax">

BunFagFreddie Sat 19-Jan-13 12:16:27

Yes, and while we're at it, can we add "Sorry, but size DOES matter" to the placard? grin

Loquace Sat 19-Jan-13 12:32:23

* but size DOES matter" to the placard?*

Actually, seeing how pube weed whacking, glitter, and scrotum lifting is making in roads, plus the amount of porn younger people are being exposed to, I think we may even need a "penises in all their various glories" may be needed before long.

Plastic surgoens do seem to looking at the potential male market for ways to make even more koney. They have honed their skills so well on making women feel indequate that I wouldn't put it past them to expose a whole generation of young men to the same kind of evil brainswashing that females have long been knocked about by.

Aided and abetted by an ever more morally reprehensible media seeking page hits and viewing numbers in a crowded market.

So "hands off our tits, bits, pecs, balls and dicks" might be in order on the placard.

I will need a considerably bigger placard hmm

Loquace Sat 19-Jan-13 12:34:29

oh FFS, English is my first language ......offically

Actually, seeing how pube weed whacking, glitter, and scrotum lifting is making in roads with blokes, plus the amount of porn younger people are being exposed to, I think we may even need a "penises in all their various glories" exhibition before long.

There that's better. <Must Write All The Words Needed emoticon>

countrykitten Sat 19-Jan-13 12:52:05

Bit worried if someone thinks that their vulva is 'self cleaning'. Vagina is but you do need to wash your outside bits.

Loquace Sat 19-Jan-13 12:56:26

The self cleaning I think referres to the lack of need to "douche".

Especially with things like vingar and bleach solutions shock

<pats fluffy bits soothingly as they wibble madly at the very idea of an inside shower of Domestos>

<stops stroking becuase is inappropriate in public>

Ive had a male friend mention he didnt like larger labia on women. He wanted me to date him. This was one of several reason i declined.

Incidentally i have fairly small labia which i thought was thew norm until i saw those photos which is interesting. I also think vaginas are not very nice looking. (except my own ofcourse wink Neither are penises come to that. Is that weird ?

As a side point i have never met a woman under 25 who did not shave in someway. I have to say i do dislike unshaven and even prefer less hairy men. But im not sure if it is related to society or what because i dont like to take it all off completely and would never ever consider a vajazzle or whatever its called.

I am around teenagers and less informed/younger people a lot and this is starting to become an insult.

The term "wizards sleeve" is starting to get replaced with baggy/saggy piss flaps and also hints about it being linked to being "a slag".

Unfortunately because the girls are not confident they usually laugh along. It is also inferred that the number of partners a girl has can changed the smell "down there".

My 17 year old and her friends have got into some very nasty arguements on FB and in RL when this is used by a young lad, as a means of humiliation to an ex, or even a girl who has rejected him.

Unfortuately this is going to be as wanted as much as hair extensions and teeth whitening, by some sections of society.

Darkesteyes Sat 19-Jan-13 17:05:26

Somebody you have reminded me of something. My ex OM used to shave his chest when i first met him. Because a woman that he previously liked (they didnt even have a relationship) didnt like hairy chests.
I told him it really didnt bother me at all. Because it doesnt. So he let it grow back.
Birds good on your DD and her mates for standing up to it. Have they ever seen the vagendamagblogspot.com. I think thats the right web address. They are also on Twitter.

digerd Sat 19-Jan-13 20:28:49

The hairy female bush hid the labia, so nobody bothered, or noticed any difference. Bring it back, I say.

My 71 year-old SIL told me her vulva is still a neat slit just as it was as a child and after 2 x10 lb babies. She had to get a mirror and heave up her big belly though to be able to see it, she said.
< mind boggling face>

Loquace Sat 19-Jan-13 20:41:28

The hairy female bush hid the labia, so nobody bothered, or noticed any difference. Bring it back, I say

I suppose the lack of hair puts everything on clear display, so that differences that wouldn't have be so obvious in my younger days, are now.

My fanny may not be pretty, but she is very good at what I want her do (bar shoving out children, but it's not her fault DS had Big Fat Head) and what she lacks in beauty pagent looks, she more than makes up for in character.

<gives fond pat>

ICBINEG Sat 19-Jan-13 20:46:07

hmm can we add other endangered hairs to the placard? Like female leg hair? An armpit hair?

These are probably even more at risk of extinction than vag hair....

Loquace Sat 19-Jan-13 20:54:41

hmm can we add other endangered hairs to the placard? Like female leg hair? An armpit hair?

<sighs deeply>

<builds SECOND even more considerably larger placard>

I live in Italy, while lots of women do shave under their arms it is so nice not to have people reacting at all if you are in short sleeves and some fuzz makes a break for it.

The downside is that due to lack of regular pit defoliation, when you do eventually shave for a special occasion, the skin gets massively whingy.

ICBINEG Sat 19-Jan-13 20:58:14

oh yes...I had been leaving well alone for about a year and then folded over wearing a strappy dress at xmas (am in UK and could not quite do the right thing <ashamed>)...I am still reaping the stinky uncomfortableness of having shaved. Hopefully it will be back to normal soon...

determinedma Sat 19-Jan-13 21:04:32

Sad thread. Proudly hairy here. Must say though, as someone whom has never really looked at own bits, hadn't realised how weird all vags look. Shouldn't have clicked on the link.
As I have got older, the labia certainly feel more stretched and droopy which I don't like.

Darkesteyes Sat 19-Jan-13 21:24:48

Loquace my mum is Italian and for years as a teen she wouldnt let me shave legs or armpits at all. I have thick dark hair and i got badly bullied at school for it .....really badly. I tried to tell my mum this and she didnt care and didnt even attempt to sort it out by contacting the school.
There are many more things i could list here about the way ive been made to feel as a woman by their culture coupled with Catholicism but i dont want to derail the thread.
Sounds like things in Italy may have changed a lot.

McNewPants2013 Sat 19-Jan-13 21:29:41

A designer vagina no thank you. shock

I do shave legs and armpit hair and sometimes pubic hair. DH doesn't mind either way.

Loquace Sat 19-Jan-13 21:42:12

Sounds like things in Italy may have changed a lot

Oooooh! your mum and mine are tiwns. I am VERY fair skined, (think corpse) with mouse coloured hair on my head. But eyebrows, lashes and all other body hair....jet black.

Would my mum let me shave ? Would she hell as like.

I rebelled at 14 cos I couldn't bear another year of having the piss taken, and teens are really good at the sort of piss take that hurts a damn sight more than a wax strip being yanked off.

What I like about here is that while the pits/legs/b.line tidy up is the norm in the summer, it isn't regulation. Less pressure.

I think the younger generation are whipping most of it off though. Probably have to seen as their jeans reveal quite a lot of front bottom <hoists busom>

Culture/catholosism/women....can we have a thread for that? Would love tomcome and have a natter and pick your brains ? Trying to sort out the culture from the religon is like trying to untangle a plate of spagetti for me.

Darkesteyes Sat 19-Jan-13 21:58:51

I think thats a fabulous idea Loquace.

Loquace Sat 19-Jan-13 22:28:58

I will have a look at which board is most suitable and send you a link in the morning.

By the end of the thread we will have untangled the bowl of spagetti grin

Darkesteyes Sat 19-Jan-13 22:32:18

Great <winks at Loquace>

Itchywoolyjumper Sat 19-Jan-13 22:46:58

I'm a sexual health nurse so I look at labia all day, every day and I've never seen even one set that I though looked as though they needed a trim (wince). Its all a big conspiracy to make us think we're weird so we'll buy things to make us normal. Viva the beaver, I say, in all its glorious variance grin

Itchy are younger people getting more hairless or not?

Itchywoolyjumper Sat 19-Jan-13 22:53:23

I think its getting to be more the norm than it ever was before, quite a lot of girls apologise for not having trimmed their pubes before they come in, its quite sad. I always tell them not to worry as I'm sporting the full Grizzy Adams myself grin

ObscuredByClouds Sat 19-Jan-13 23:07:24

jamesandthegiantbanana, spot on!

"Dear God, just five minutes ago we were burning our bras and now we are frying our anuses, chopping off our butterflies and blowing our boobies up to massive proportions."

Hear, hear!

TheFallenNinja Sat 19-Jan-13 23:22:21

Back in the day it could have looked like Ed Miliband and I would have still chased after it smile

Loquace Sat 19-Jan-13 23:51:20

Viva the beaver

grin

<constructs third and FINAL! considerably bigger placard>

JusticeCrab Sun 20-Jan-13 06:49:51

I'm a man, and if my views on this mattered (which they don't) I'd be standing outside these clinics with a 9-metre-long placard with 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!' written on it.

Loquace Sun 20-Jan-13 09:09:15

<suffers from placard size envy>

VivaLaBeaver is just the BEST EVER Mumsnet nickname grin
Literally just made me LOL - I had to explain to DH in the presence 3DCs.
Made my morning, thank you!

Molehillmountain Sun 20-Jan-13 09:48:28

I don't know where to begin with this. Just to say I thought doctors were meant to "first do no harm". How does making women feel that some labia are nasty enough to need cutting off do no harm to the mental health of his patients and the wider audience who read this stuff?

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Sun 20-Jan-13 10:05:16

The vagina is not a kitchen <- Love this, but it does mean i'll have to find somewhere else to keep my rolling pin grin

Loquace Sun 20-Jan-13 10:07:05
giraffesCantGoFirstFooting Sun 20-Jan-13 10:19:42

Just read the very despressing comments at the bottom of the page, such as the woman who is worried a new man would say "ew" when looking at her normal bits sad

Some very sensible comments thankfully such as - well then you would throw him out!

Itchywoolyjumper Sun 20-Jan-13 10:24:39

Loquace and JusticeCrab, please let me know where and when your going with these placards, I'm laughing myself into knots at the thought of our angry mob marching on Harley St shouting "the vagina is not a kitchen" and "stop weed wacking our pubes".

giraffesCantGoFirstFooting Sun 20-Jan-13 10:39:53

I have one boob and eye slightly larger than the other and also one side of labia - I was randomly chatting to dp about it - wondering if it was all same side or not. Anyway I mentioned I used to get embarassed about it and he was horrified and said "no no no but all of you is just perfect"

I am far from perfect - but so is he. But to ME he is perfect because he is him.

If you think hmm I might not shag this person as they have a large labia then you probably shouldn;t be shagging them at all. Am I missing soemthing? Is sex not about that ultimate closeness and you just want to be with that person?

Loquace Sun 20-Jan-13 10:57:12

please let me know where and when your going with these placards

I'll let you know when noegociations over fluffy bits out and proud/fluffy bits safetly ensconced in knickers (during the demo) are complete so we can move on to date/time/place discussions.

AIBU to insist that Fluffy Bits stay inside knickers ? Cos she is petitioning for a wash and blow dry with the intent to campain in her own right. Right Labia is quivering and trying to crawl inside Vagina for saftey, saying she doesn't want to open herself up to asthetics judging, while Left Labia, being the more radical feminsist of the two, is accusing her of collaborating with the patriarchy by not refusing to be cowed by socially constructed gender opression.

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 20-Jan-13 11:03:23

Blimey Loquace that's one chatty vag grin

Imagines vag as special guest on Question Time.

grin grin

Loquace Sun 20-Jan-13 11:28:04

oh she is very opinionated.

Hmm question time. Is there an appearance fee ?

<considers second job as Vagina's agent>

Oh wait! She says she isn't coming unless she gets an upgrade from Easyjet.

Vagina wants BA First class. And is demanding white roses, champane and truffles in the green room. Plus Nicky Clarke for pre show coiff.

<Gone Diva emoticon>

Loquace grin

giraffes, I cannot comment on your boobs, but your eyes are perfect of course. I have one upper eyelid slightly more droopy than the other (always have done, nought to do with age) and whenever I want to wind up DH, I threaten to see about having it 'corrected' - always makes him tell me how perfect I am grin! Result.

Can a German-Scottish minge join the Big Fluffy Protest March??

I did think a few of the women on that link had labia that looked like it was very long and to me looked like it would get in the way/be sore under jeans. Maybe its just me..

Loquace Sun 20-Jan-13 14:45:49

Big Fluffy Protest March welcomes all nations.

National dress (dreadlocks, cornrows with beads, Princess Leia plaitshells etc) encouraged.

Those representing middle England with "wash, set and comb out" adviced to bring little plastic hoods if rain is forecast.

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 20-Jan-13 15:06:04

So how would this actually work.

We all rock up, dressed in national costume, fluffs tinted to colours of national flag, lay down whip off our keks and hoist our enormous, wordy placards.

PS has Big Fluffy become Mariah Furry?

Loquace Sun 20-Jan-13 15:21:26

We all rock up, dressed in national costume, fluffs tinted to colours of national flag, lay down whip off our keks and hoist our enormous, wordy placards

<promotes EnjoyResponsibly to choreographer>

I have found modern merkins for the baldies who wish to jion in but don't want frostbite of the LadyGarden

And special fluffy bits hairdye to reduce the number of Deeply Irritated Vaginas who had a bad reaction to an ill advised use of Clairol

Mariah Furry will be performing her new number one hit "The Emancipation of Muff-y".

(Ear plugs will be provided)

giraffesCantGoFirstFooting Sun 20-Jan-13 16:18:12

Pacific I will show you my bombs next time I see you!!

giraffesCantGoFirstFooting Sun 20-Jan-13 16:18:33

Boobs even! Ha!!

giraffes grin

May I just remark how this fred with its serious point, knowledgable posters and levity is a perfect example of what make MN unique amongst all fora forums chatrooms and I luff it muchly [wells up]

I am thinking dirndl cleavage and kilt with dye-job underneath would be appropriate attire for the Big March, non?

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