Very strange PE lesson today

(101 Posts)
deliataughtme Thu 17-Jan-13 21:42:29

Just posted this in secondary ed but posting here too because there is more traffice.

DD, Yr 9, came home from school fuming.

They had PE today. Two groups so two teachers. They did bleep tests (whatever they are) but which I understand to be mindless running up and down and then the girls take their pulses. At this point the girls were not told they couldn't talk and though they had been put at ease after the running and the two teachers left the gym because there was talking.

They were gone for 20 minutes and then came back and screamed at the girls for their rudeness, the fact that they might as well not be there, no-one noticed they had gone, etc.. The girls were also told they would do really badly at GCSE because of their attitude. The girls were then made to spend 20 minutes running around outside in the freezing cold - some did not have full kit and had to do so in tshirts/shorts in minus temperatures.

Now, I appreciate I have one side of this but there must have been 40 odd girls, some of whom have significant behaviour problems, some of whom have SEN. They were left unattended for 20 minutes. Is that actually acceptable from a safeguarding point of view? I don't think it is. I don't think screaming at girls is acceptable either.

My dd and one of her friends, another mum has been on the phone, think the teachers were out of order and should at the very least have given instructions about whether the girls could talk when taking pulses, etc., should not have left the girls unattended and should not have come back screaming. DD and the friend are very reliable to give accurate recollections of the facts.

All sounds very strange and unsatisfactory. Also, doesn't sound like much of a team spirited PE lesson either.

Any PE teachers, SMT members or teachers generally on here for a view?

AngelWreakinHavoc Thu 17-Jan-13 21:46:30

Sounds like the pe teachers had had enough of 13/14 year old girls chatting and being silly while others were doing the beep test to be honest.
I doubt they left for 20 mins.

thegreylady Thu 17-Jan-13 21:46:43

Teachers should never ever leave a class unattended and if this is true it needs to be reported.If the teachers sloped off for a cuppa etc then tried to put the blame on the class is outrageous.
I was a teacher for over 30 years. I never left a class-if I needed to I sent a pupil to the office to ask for cover for a few minutes.

Celticlassie Thu 17-Jan-13 21:49:49

Bleep tests are not 'mindless running up and down', they are fitness tests.

And I doubt they were left for 20 minutes.

RuleBritannia Thu 17-Jan-13 21:51:50

Do you mean 'screaming' (Americanese) or 'shouting'?

Screaming is what people do when they are so we see on tv frightened or being attacked.

Salmotrutta Thu 17-Jan-13 21:54:18

I teach and I would nip across the hall/into the next room to collect something from another room maybe.

No way would I ever leave a class alone for 20 minutes - but I'd be very surprised if this is what happened.

And fitness tests/recovery time will be part of a PE certificate class syllabus surely?

deliataughtme Thu 17-Jan-13 21:54:39

Probably shouting RuleBritannia but in an overbearing out of control manner which I do think borders on screaming. Certainly not speaking loudly in a rational manner which denoted self control or respect for the pupils.

Salmotrutta Thu 17-Jan-13 21:56:33

Yes- people love to bandy around the word "screaming" when actually they mean someone raised their voice.

Bobyan Thu 17-Jan-13 21:57:45

How do you know how loudly they were shouting? Were you there?

I'm guessing most people would leave their 13 year old alone for 20 minutes at home, so is it really that big a deal at school?

Salmotrutta Thu 17-Jan-13 21:58:23

I really think -you-- your DD should put this behind her and move on ...

deliataughtme Thu 17-Jan-13 21:58:50

Salmotrutta not aware my dd is taking a certificate in PE. Certainly won't be a GCSE option. Is it appropriate to tell an entire cohort they will fail their GCSEs?. Is it appropriate to leave that many girls unattended? Is it appropriate to make them run in -3 when many do not have a PE sweatshirt with them because it was not an outdoor lesson?

Montybojangles Thu 17-Jan-13 21:59:52

I think you will find its impossible to take a pulse while talking, so sounds like they were mucking about and not taking the lesson very seriously. 13/14 yr olds do tend to have a habit of exaggerating, or forgetting salient (negative to their side of the story) facts from time to time. A pinch of salt may be needed.

Salmotrutta Thu 17-Jan-13 22:00:17

Sadly yes, it is a big deal Bobyan.

A class full of 20 teenagers will not just sit quietly and read - they get up to all sorts of inventive mischief!

deliataughtme Thu 17-Jan-13 22:01:09

I don't leave my 13 year old at home with girls who have been temporarily excluded for beating up other girls at all and I don't expect that to happen at school.

Isn't it a serious safeguarding issue?

TheFallenMadonna Thu 17-Jan-13 22:03:20

Bleep tests totally standard in PE.
You can't talk and take your pulse at the same time.

Leaving a class for 20 minutes is very odd indeed.

deliataughtme Thu 17-Jan-13 22:03:40

Thing is, not like my dd to complain or to be cross about stuff - usually takes it all in her stride so I think this was pretty odd actually.

WhatchuTalkinBoutPhyllis Thu 17-Jan-13 22:03:50

if your daughter is telling the truth about them leaving for so long then yanbu

JambalayaCodfishPie Thu 17-Jan-13 22:04:20

Isn't it a serious safeguarding issue?

No. It isn't.

In fact, its far likely to be a serious exaggeration issue. grin

Salmotrutta Thu 17-Jan-13 22:05:02

Err, yes, if pupils have attitude and muck about I do point out that they may well underperform

....what with them not listening or working and all hmm

As to running about outside ... They were running. Running keeps you warm.
We used to do cross country every week come rain, snow or sun back in the day.

WhatchuTalkinBoutPhyllis Thu 17-Jan-13 22:05:24

bobyan I'm guessing most people wouldn't leave their 13 year old at home with 29 other 13 year olds.

DonderandBlitzen Thu 17-Jan-13 22:05:38

Probably what happened was that the girls were messing around, not listening and doing what they were supposed to and the teacher told them off and made them run outside for 10 mins, which is fine. Teachers have to punish kids sometimes and that seems an ok way to do it to me. If they made the girls stand in the cold shivering that wouldn't be ok, but running is ok.

DumSpiroSpero Thu 17-Jan-13 22:06:32

It does sound really odd - I would definitely be fuming about the outdoor running in adequate kit, but tbh I'm biased as I have a lifelong loathing of PE and PE teachers!

Back in the real world, I would possibly raise it with someone appropriate, but in the context of 'I'm sure there must have been a misunderstanding but I'm a bit concerned and want to get to the bottom of it...' context rather than going in all guns blazing.

It does sound as though the situation may be open to interpretation to be fair.

Amerryscot Thu 17-Jan-13 22:06:33

Sounds like you only have one side of the story

Bobyan Thu 17-Jan-13 22:06:35

Then why let her go to school, what if she bumps into them in the loos?

Are you not failing her by allowing her to go to a dangerous place where you can't guarantee her safety?

You're being very unrealistic and it seems that there is much more to this than the fact your Dd got told off and then had to (shock horror) run around outside for a bit.

WhatchuTalkinBoutPhyllis Thu 17-Jan-13 22:07:58

did anyone else read traffic in a french accent?

TidyDancer Thu 17-Jan-13 22:09:46

Why would it be a serious safeguarding issue? They are school children, not hardened criminals.

The running around outside in minus temps, well it's not great admittedly, but they wouldn't have been running for long before they warmed up surely? I don't think it's the big deal you are thinking it is.

I also suspect your DD has taken exception to this lesson and has perhaps been creative in the retelling of it.

I think you need to let this one go.

BoneyBackJefferson Thu 17-Jan-13 22:14:26

How can they have had inadequate kit?

They must have had shorts, trainers etc.

WorraLiberty Thu 17-Jan-13 22:14:34

I can't get fussed about it really

And yes, if they can't concentrate and listen to the teacher, they probably will fail their GCSEs.

Let's hope they learned from this...if it's totally true and not exaggerated in parts.

IAmLouisWalsh Thu 17-Jan-13 22:18:46

grin at serious exaggeration issue!

Myliferocks Thu 17-Jan-13 22:21:14

Without wishing to turn it into a competition, my DD played a netball match outside after school this afternoon. I was stood watching in about 10 layers and still felt frozen yet the girls were all just wearing tshirts and shorts even though they could have worn sweatshirts.
They were all complaining how warm they were!

Sirzy Thu 17-Jan-13 22:25:46

Who timed how long they were gone?

How long is the lesson actually? They had time to get changed, start the activity, misbehave, the teachers leave for 20 minutes, teachers come back and scream at them, spend another 20 minutes running around outside and then presumably in and changed for the next lesson. That is a very long PE lesson!

deliataughtme Thu 17-Jan-13 22:27:58

Double lesson - 80 minutes.

Sirzy Thu 17-Jan-13 22:30:46

Even then it doesn't add up. Considering 20-30 minutes of that will be getting ready and then changed back.

I think there is some serious exaggeration going on!

BookFairy Thu 17-Jan-13 22:34:58

Hmmm. If the teachers did leave them for 20mins then yes it would be a safeguarding issue, but is there any way of assertaining exactly what happened? I would say be careful before you go in guns blazing.

deliataughtme Thu 17-Jan-13 22:35:00

10 mins to get changed, 20 mins bleep testing, 20 mins disappearance, 20 mins running outside, 10 minutes to get dressed again. What precisely doesn't add up for you? What precisely do you think is a serious exaggeration.

I know my dd. She is not generally the child to cry wolf or to make a fuss. Therefore, when she does complain I am inclined to believe her, not least because another mother or a very sensible girl has also been on the phone.

LessMissAbs Thu 17-Jan-13 22:35:06

Why don't you find out what bleep tests are before condemning them? They are an extremely common test of fitness, and a very good idea so that improvement can be gauged.

Why don't you also find out what actually happened, instead of flinging around wild and strange sounding accusations about a perfectly normal sounding pe session? Did your DD actually time the absence? Were the teachers perhaps watching from a building?

btw running around in sub zero conditions doens't actually hurt you, you know. Its this strange biological phonomenon of increasing blood flow causing a rise in body temperature.

YABU, because you sound so unrealistic in your ridiculous comment about bleep tests. Why not just google them first?

Flojobunny Thu 17-Jan-13 22:35:43

Perhaps they didn't 'leave them for 20 minutes' but were stood outside the door and saw how the girls behaved in there absense. Probably being loud and rude about the teachers behind their back and they came back in and told them what for.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 17-Jan-13 22:37:32

I don't know why it's always assumed teenagers lie.

deliataughtme Thu 17-Jan-13 22:37:50

My dd would not have lied about the teachers leaving, would not have lied about the screaming/yelling/shouting (whatever is should be described as), would not have lied about the enforced running in the freezing cold as a punishment and would not have lied about the teachers saying all the girls would do badly at GCSE. Presumably the teachers could only speak for PE GCSE which my dd will not even be taking.

catgirl1976 Thu 17-Jan-13 22:38:22

If they were running or doing some physical exercise they would have been plenty warm regardless of the temperature or lack of kit

And your DD shouldn't have been talking

YABU

Sirzy Thu 17-Jan-13 22:39:40

There is a difference between lying and exaggeration.

LynetteScavo Thu 17-Jan-13 22:40:02

Sounds like the teachers left them because they were being so rude and silly in the first place. I bet they were just standing the other side of the door seeing what the girls would do.

Running around in the freezing cold was normal in PE lessons in the 80's. We all lived. (Although Y7's in DSs school don't do outdoor PE in the winter in case they get cold. shock hmm confused)

ArtemisatBrauron Thu 17-Jan-13 22:41:30

I am a teacher and I would never leave a class alone for 20 minutes, I'm paid to teach them, not to ignore them. If they really were left for that long then you need to make a formal complaint to the deputy head. (although from experience of year 9s their perception of time can be a bit off "miss my homework took me hoouuuurrs" etc [grins])

JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 17-Jan-13 22:41:45

My DS1 who is truthful to his own detriment, reports loads of shouting and unfairness by PE teachers towards DCs who are trying their best but are just not that great at sport. It's a familiar trait IME.

Sure there are lots of lovely creative sensitive PE teachers, but ...

deliataughtme Thu 17-Jan-13 22:42:25

I have spoken to my daughter MissAbs - I am confident that she tells the truth; therefore I do feel I know what happened.

I never did bleep tests at school - we spent PE lessons exercising, trampolining, climbing ropes, vaulting, doing things that appeared to have a plan and a purpose. Presumably if pulses were being taken effectively and accurately the girls also had timers to do so and should have been able to time the teachers' absence perfectly with them.

Very surprised the timing issue is being questioned when the girls must have had time-pieces/stop watches in order to take their pulses. If they didn't they couldn't take an accurate pulse could they?

ArtemisatBrauron Thu 17-Jan-13 22:42:27

P.s. the running outside in the cold is pretty standard tbh, you should see the scanty PE kit the kids wear at most schools even for winter sport!

JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 17-Jan-13 22:42:38

Fair point about the exaggeration

YABU 'enforced running' is PE isn't it? Or will we start calling English 'enforced writing' and Art 'enforced drawing'. If they have a bad attitude to school they will do badly in their exams, as for your daughter being left for 20 minutes with girls who have been excluded, doesn't she spend breaktimes and lunch times in the school? Are they supervised 100% of the time then too?

WorraLiberty Thu 17-Jan-13 22:43:58

Dear god what's wrong with running in the cold?

And no the teachers aren't just talking about failing PE GCSE, if the kids decide to use lessons as a social gathering.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 17-Jan-13 22:45:04

delia

they use the bleep teat as a measure of stamina and an objective measure of improvements made as a result of physical exercise.

I shall defend them on a personal level because in Primary, one of my DS1 got best in the class, even though up til that point he deemed himself to be useless at sport. Turns out he's a pretty good long distance runner

catgirl1976 Thu 17-Jan-13 22:45:52

My PE teacher used to let me play pool whenever we were meant to be playing squash on the grounds that I was (and I quote) "fucking shit at it"

So me and another untalented child were packed off to the bar to get a diet coke and hone our skills with a cue totally unattended

I liked that lesson

JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 17-Jan-13 22:46:09

IME there's no correlation between a bad attitude to shouty PE teachers and a bad attitude to school

<digs deep hole>

Sirzy Thu 17-Jan-13 22:46:51

Oh so now they used a stop watch to get an accurate time!

Everyone is known to exaggerate, I don't know why you find that so hard to accept. You have one side of the story, before getting irate it is always worth getting both sides.. The truth will fall somewhere in the middle.

deliataughtme Thu 17-Jan-13 22:47:17

I don't believe I said my dd was talking. She wasn't. There was however some talking and my dd felt that was OK because she felt the girls had been put at ease. She's very compliant.

Flojobunny Thu 17-Jan-13 22:47:25

We did bleep tests, despite hating running I quite enjoyed the bleep tests, they were always good fun.
We had to do PE outside in winter. Sometimes it was cold if we were doing hockey and the ball was down the other end too much and we were just stood round but running would warm them up no problems. It's the poor teachers I feel sorry for who have to stand round in it!
Our PE teachers used to yell a lot but that had something to do with always being outside or in a big hall, its the only way to be heard.

DonderandBlitzen Thu 17-Jan-13 22:48:10

Did the girls set the timer the minute the teachers left the room to time how long they would be gone then?

WilsonFrickett Thu 17-Jan-13 22:50:15

Surely all teachers say 'if you don't do X you will fail Y'. Isn't that a default piece of teacher-speak? I certainly remember being told 'if you cheat at cross country you won't get a job in a bank.' I did. And I did.

But anyway. Your objection to bleep tests because you didn't do them in school is very funny. The curriculum does change every now and then...

My hunch would be that the teachers maybe had some other issues going on and were trying to deal with an unrelated situation, left the kids to it thinking they were occupied, then flared up when they realised that they weren't and that they were in the wrong.

Bleep tests sound fine though. Running around in not many clothes kind of Dickensian, but fundamentally fine. I'd actually have more issue with the 'exercise as punishment' bit - not very Olympic legacy is it?

DonderandBlitzen Thu 17-Jan-13 22:52:05

I believe that your dd is compliant and truthful. No reason to disbelieve that. I'm just not sure that the teachers did anything wrong really.

Yabu in relation to condemnation of bleep tests, messing around by the class and subsequent appropriate punishment..

Why do you think running outside in PE is unacceptable?

If they were left for 20 mins then this is the issue

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Thu 17-Jan-13 22:52:29

I wouldn't be sending my DD to a school where I felt she was unsafe without a teacher present (what does she do at break times?).

At their age we were constantly left to get on with the work that had been set. Of course there was a lot of chattering and a bit of messing around but no blood and no broken bones - we all lived and did well in exams. I'm concerned that the majority of parents & teachers here think 13 year olds need constant supervision at school.

If I'd been told, by a PE teacher, that I'd fail my GCSEs I'd have rolled my eyes, they were either 'nice' or 'fucking awful' but they were never 'proper' teachers (IMO) so their comments on exams would have meant sod all.

Running around for 20 mins in shorts & a t-shirt will not hurt them. Not great in 'indoor' footwear, but as a one off, not the end of the world either.

If my DD had told me all this I would have said something like 'That all sounds a bit odd, never mind, they're PE teachers <shrug> - now how did maths/english/whatever go'.

mackerella Thu 17-Jan-13 22:58:01

You had a bar and a pool table in your school, Catgirl? shock

catgirl1976 Thu 17-Jan-13 22:59:39

Sadly not smile

We used to go to a local sports centre for squash lessons

They were happy days smile

AngelWreakinHavoc Thu 17-Jan-13 23:04:16

My ds does football/rugby outdoors in all weather as did I when I was at school.
He also goes outside and washes my cars and van in this weather (unsupervised --for more than 20 mins--)
YABVU and pfb by the sounds of it.

I was driving home today and seen at least 6 runners out in shorts (I live next to a raf base) , they didnt have have a teacher telling them to run as punishment and certainly didnt look cold.

No wonder all the kids nowadays feel/act so entitled it is the mothers who is making them that way!

marriedinwhite Thu 17-Jan-13 23:09:45

Why are you all giving the OP such a hard time. It sounds like a badly managed lesson without a plan that went wrong. Two teachers then baled out - which, if something serious had happened in their absence, would have been a disciplinary matter where I work, behaviour spiralled after they left and they came back and dealt with it wholly inappropriately. If girls were talking they should have stayed and dealt with the girls who were talking - not disappeared only to come back and lay into the whole group and punish the whole group.

Totally unacceptable in my opinion. And if one of the girls had started an asthma attack for example and ended up in hospital, or worse, as a result of exertion on a cold day and the teachers had left under 18's unsupervised, even if it wasn't as long as 20 minutes, then I wouldn't have wanted to file that little report to the H&S Executive or to have answered to the LA and governing body.

Can't vouch for the validity of bleep tests, and of course I don't know how much the girls were mucking about when the teachers left but if they were mucking about the teachers should have stayed and should have dealt with it as trained professionals.

Why is it always assumed that one child is embellishing the truth? If the teachers left the group unattended it was unacceptable and unprofessional and represents the actions of teachers who probably don't have the basic skills to manage behaviour in the first place.

KhallDrogo Thu 17-Jan-13 23:11:23

exactly angel rugby is only played in the winter...and they come off the pitch sweating...the girls would not have been cold, running outside for 10 minutes or so

The 20 minutes left alone, has been exaggerated

the teachers were probably spying on the girls during that time anyway

concentrate on teaching your dd not to talk and mess around in class

dont undermine the teachers authority

its all a bit of a non issue

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 17-Jan-13 23:14:27

I read age nine, and wondered what she was doing in secondary school confused
I wish posters would give ages rather than the year their dcs are in, as it differs in Scotland, Ireland and for anybody who doesn't actually live in England.
Sorry, personal bugbear, carry on folks.

mynewpassion Thu 17-Jan-13 23:17:58

Instead of your daughter being aggrieved at the teachers, maybe she should be aggrieved at her classmates. If they weren't messing about and just doing the lesson, they wouldn't have been punished and other students like your compliant daughter would be able to learn something.

BrittaPerry Thu 17-Jan-13 23:20:08

Ooh, I hated bleep tests even more than cross country. Just another excuse for the rest of the class to laugh at the weird one (ie me)

But then I hated all PE.

Turns out I actually quite like sport, I just didn't like the attitude problem of the PE teachers. Although I turned that t my advantage when I discovered that thy thought it was a punishment to sit and read a book instead of playing netball.

But that is by the by. You are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place here, but I would lean towards doing nothing (except finding a way to skive your daughter off PE and sending her to do a fun exercise of her own choice after school. I suggest music lessons in school time and dance out of school, but that is my advice to anyone with a teenager th s anything less than sporty)

perceptionreality Thu 17-Jan-13 23:23:51

Sorry to generalise here, but I have met quite a few PE teachers in my life who were passive aggressive little hitlers quite unlike other teachers. They often don't seem to be very nice people - I talk of the maybe 10 I have known.

I am sorry if I offended any PE teachers I am sure nice ones do exist.

Montybojangles Thu 17-Jan-13 23:26:10

You say the teachers left because there was talking. This would suggest to me an announcement along the lines of.. Everyone quiet please (no one shuts up)...right, I'm going outside to give you a minute to think about proper behaviour in class, and when I walk back in I expect some quiet and respect... Leaves, comes back, still noisy and ignoring teacher-cue forceful loud command to get out side and get running if they can't behave inside etc.
Your daughter may be well behaved, but I'm sure there's a few in a class of 40 who will push as far as they can.

BookFairy Thu 17-Jan-13 23:33:43

I agree marriedinwhite

If there were 2 teachers at least 1 should have stayed and immediately dealt with any messing around before it escalated. If there are students in the group who have behavioural problems then there should be a teacher present, regardless of the fact that they're 13 and ought to know better.

A work at an FE College and there are many students who can't be trusted to behave unsupervised at the age of 18, never mind 13. confused

andtheycalleditbunnylove Thu 17-Jan-13 23:47:12

were you there? children say all sorts of things.

Primafacie Fri 18-Jan-13 00:02:22

Can I just LOL at the shudder for being made to run in the cold?

I was born and raised in Canada and we played outside from reception every single day, including in -30C weather. I have clear recollections of being made to dig in the snow with bare hands, aged about ten, in -10C or so, as part of PE to "build a fort". Also have memories of going cross country skiing as a mandatory school trip, at A levels-equivalent and it was -32c outside. We were all so warm we were in tshirts and they were soaked with sweat, although one of my mates got pretty bad frostbite on one ear. smile

Seriously OP, it is not that cold over here. Ever.

Going back to the Op, I think you are massively overreacting.

ilovesooty Fri 18-Jan-13 00:46:22

I never did bleep tests at school - we spent PE lessons exercising, trampolining, climbing ropes, vaulting, doing things that appeared to have a plan and a purpose

Classic example of someone who went to school and therefore deems themselves qualified to criticise the curriculum years later. I'd suggest that qualified teachers are capable of deciding what should be taught.

If the teachers left the class unsupervised, that is the only issue worth clarifying IMO.

StuntGirl Fri 18-Jan-13 00:52:43

Sounds like a lot of something over nothing.

Yfronts Fri 18-Jan-13 01:04:54

I run in one layer only in this weather - it's fine and warm once you get going.

ComposHat Fri 18-Jan-13 01:24:17

Class arsed around, class got bollocked and sanctioned.

Good.

HollyBerryBush Fri 18-Jan-13 03:29:29

So me and another untalented child were packed off to the bar to get a diet coke and hone our skills with a cue totally unattended

You had a school with a bar? I wish I went to your school!

Cross country - now there's a memory; airtex top, and those awful knicker things and green dunlops - trainers had yet to be invented as an everyday item, they were the remit of professional sports people. Back to cross country, round and round the local park, bitterly cold misty mornings. In the summer it was double tennis, right after lunch in the heat of the day - I hate tennis to this day.

StraightTalkinSheila Fri 18-Jan-13 03:39:43

Meh. No doubt something occurred to get that reaction from the teachers. It's highly unlikely that they were left unsupervised for 20 mins. If they were, then it's an issue.
In this case, If you really wanted to, I'd phone the school to speak to one of the teachers or a member of SMT.
I'm not saying your DD is a liar, but students can exaggerate.
I was accused of "screaming" at a student and making them cry. The parent wanted me sacked etc etc. The accusation fell apart a bit when it was confirmed that a) I wasn't at school that day and b) as I'd just had an op on my throat, the chances of my raising my voice at ANYONE was non- existent.

MsElisaDay Fri 18-Jan-13 04:51:17

YABU on the grounds that you don't know what the bleep test is and didn't bother to look it up before posting- you've just assumed it involves "mindless running."
How much more have you just taken your daughter's word for? And, incidentally, what would constitute mindful running?

Bleep tests were a PE staple when I was at school 15-odd years ago. (Hated them, was terrible at it, but I run marathons now. Hmmmn).

As for running outside in the freezing cold-isn't that expected for a games lesson in January? Or did you never play hockey or rugby at your school? YABU and more than a bit precious. I think you should let it drop, or run the risk of looking very daft indeed.

I love it that people think running around outside in cold weather is a bad thing, did anyone keel over? Get hypothermia in those few minutes?

My neighbour runs everyday rain shine or snow and he's still alive!

Bet they remember their PE kits in full in future!

JambalayaCodfishPie Fri 18-Jan-13 06:38:17

Passive aggressive little hitlers? .hmm

LovesBeingWokenEveryNight Fri 18-Jan-13 06:46:07

I did the bleep test at school over 25 years ago, it's not some new method for freeing up the teachers time its used by the police, army etc.

Not sure what the point of posting was op you are not listening to anyone.

LtEveDallas Fri 18-Jan-13 06:48:36

The bleep test is an excellent test of cardio-vascular fitness, agility, stamina and perseverence. It's a useful tool for grading fitness levels and improvement as it is very easy to monitor.

If you add in the sit-up and push-up bleeps tests too you have all round testing that could be repeated (say, monthly) to get an accurate reading of how much effort is being put in. It's also very easy to pick up on those who can't be bothered wink.

meditrina Fri 18-Jan-13 06:59:42

The reason I'd doubt the DC's word is that at the start of the OP, she says that they class was told not to talk. By end of OP, it seems to have become "should at the very least have given instructions about whether the girls could talk when taking pulses".

This was clearly a badly-behaved class, and the DC is attempting to evade responsibility for her part in the disruption.

If they continue to behave badly, then failing exams becomes ever likelier. If DC did no grasp the utility and importance of the bleep test, then she is already failing to learn. If mummy goes in to whine about beastly teachers, then the DC will continue to have whiny tantrums and will fall into the pattern of blaming others rather than gaining self-knowledge and responsibility.

If you feel the need to check on the account of the 20 minute absence, then I'd suggest an straightforward email enquiry.

BiscuitMillionaire Fri 18-Jan-13 09:54:17

OP: there's really no point posting anything critical of teachers on MN. You immediately get jumped on by all the teachers on here who won't contemplate the possibility that a teacher could do something wrong, as you have discovered.

It doesn't sound like a very effective or inspiring PE lesson. Being made to run in sub-zero temperatures is not likely to encourage a group of teenage girls to take up sport. And if they were left for 20 minutes, that is obviously not acceptable practice. Of course your DD might be exaggerating a bit, so I would make a polite enquiry at the school, as to whether this really happened.

BarbarianMum Fri 18-Jan-13 10:02:27

I used to hate the bleep test lesson but I still think your dd and her lovely classmates should just suck it up.

I expect the teachers were the other side of the door or equivalent, really doubt they sloped off to the pub.

If they don't want to be cold they can remember their full PE kit (if it is anything like ours it won't make that much difference).

Is their any age at which children/young people/kids these days are required to bear any responsibility at all for their actions? Judging by the current disrupted lectures thread apparently not. <depressed>

Jins Fri 18-Jan-13 10:08:25

I never did bleep tests at school - we spent PE lessons exercising, trampolining, climbing ropes, vaulting, doing things that appeared to have a plan and a purpose

I can actually see more of a point to bleep tests than any of these exercises. I'd have been happy to have done bleep tests at school. I found the rope climbing, vaulting and team sports pointless and irrelevant.

Regardless of the exercise they were carrying out they should be aware that talking during a lesson is not acceptable. If the teachers did leave the room at that age I don't see there being a huge safeguarding issue to be honest

Flobbadobs Fri 18-Jan-13 10:10:02

DH is a sports coach and has had to deal with groups of children age about 11/12, mostly boys, getting silly and over excited, especially when doing things like bleep tests.
He doesn't leave the room but he certainly leaves the group and tells them he will come back when they have sorted themselves out, then goes to one of the other groups until things calm down. It usually only takes a few minutes before they realise that they are losing out and other groups are getting all the attention from the coaches.
My son was in the group on a day that this happened, according to him his Dad ignored them for at least half an hour. According to DH and the other coach it was 5 minutes. Children exaggerate, I would take the tale with a pinch of salt and maybe speak to the teachers involved to find out what happened.

Fakebook Fri 18-Jan-13 10:10:38

Oh whatever! Can people please stop mollycoddling their little bundles of joy when they're teenagers?

The teachers probably got pissed off with chattering and left the room to prove a point. At 13, they all should have known better.

We used to be made to run around outside in the cold as punishment, and nothing happened to us. We survived. I passed my GCSE's fine. Leave the disciplining to the teachers and bloody well move on.

Vodkapleasenurse Fri 18-Jan-13 10:11:40

Get a grip! Safeguarding issue!?
They are 13 not 3, does your daughter never spend 20 mins 'alone' with other children? Break times? Playing out? Walking to school? I doubt it was 20 mins either.
The teachers were probably on the other side of the door listening to the girls waiting for them to settle down before they returned.

kim147 Fri 18-Jan-13 11:05:42

If I left one particular class I work with for 20 minutes, I think we'd end up with 2 or 3 fights, lots of shouting, swearing and a couple of injuries.

On the other hand, it would sort out the pecking order once and for all. But I think I'd get a few complaints.

I'm not loving this attitude of 'people run all the time in this weather, nobody gets hypothermia because of it"

Well actually you can. My DS 14 at the time, playing football during a PE lesson outside in temp of -1. You think he would be running around enough to keep warm, wouldn't you? I got a phone call from a hospital asking to go in as my son had been admitted by ambulance with his PE teacher after collapsing on pitch. Turns out he developed hypothermia. I cannot explain to you how angry I was that he was put at risk and subsequently very ill as a result. But I'm just a parent so what do I know?

Any why do people generally treat teenagers like they are lying little trouble makers? We all know the general traits of the teen stages but the general contempt that some people treat teenagers with makes me wonder why it never occurs to them that maybe if they treated them better/with more respect then they would get better results or behaviour from them.

As for screaming being an over exaggeration I recall one specific teacher who used to scream at the top of his voice at kids in our secondary school...he was notorious for it....never when other adults were around either...

Nobody is perfect, including teachers. Everyone knows they have stressful jobs but it doesn't mean they are ALL automatically good at their jobs, the same for any industry or sector.

EllaEllaElla Fri 18-Jan-13 11:26:07

Errrr......why don't you speak to the school and hear the story from the teachers? It isn't really fair to take only your DD word for it.

sickandtiredofitall Fri 18-Jan-13 11:26:34

Does your daughter go to Lady Margaret School? my daughter came home with the same story!!!

Mia4 Fri 18-Jan-13 11:28:51

You can talk to the teacher but re running outside I was made to run in god awful small shorts and a t-shirt through the snow for cross country-that was 20 years ago. If you are running it's fine as sparklesoiree has said, other things would not be fine if you're standing still or not racing around.

It does sound like they were mucking around but the teachers should not have buggered off and then moaned about the girls 'not noticing they were gone'-however you only have your daughter and anothers story so it's 50/50. Some teachers sadly are that shit but also sometimes you just don't know how easily your child can lie and manipulate.

Get the girls to write it down-independent of each other, with no interacting/texting- then speak to the teachers and get their side.

weeblueberry Fri 18-Jan-13 11:34:21

Maybe suggest to your daughter that you're having a meeting with the head and you'd like her to write the situation all down, including the 20 minute time frame she was left? If she feels that strongly that this was the length of time she was put outside she'll be happy to put her name to it in writing. But if she suspects it was closer to five minutes and it was a bit of an exaggeration (which we're ALL guilty of...) she'll be very unlikely to do it.

deliataughtme Fri 18-Jan-13 21:45:24

Goodness me. Can't be a tall story - another mother from the same school has been told the same or at least a very similar story shock.

That makes three mums receiving one story by my count *sotiredofitall*. I wonder if the school googles itself?

As you all were.

Love it delia - I soooooo glad you were able to come back (particularly to everyone who was going into a Pythonesque "I was up at 4am with a cup of cold gravel for breakfast and it didn't do me any harm" type rant) and say that others had supported your DD's account.

For chrissake why do people automatically believe children or young people lie/exaggerate whatever you want to call it, and that nice sensible adults who are great parents should ignore them? How the hell does that work out for you all? I suppose it means you never have to deal with anything at your child's school.

I bet we can all remember crap and spiteful PE teachers - my DD is age 11 in year 7 (for poster outside England earlier) and she said to me sadly the other day "Mum if we are not good at sport our PE teacher makes us feel bad about ourselves and our bodies".

But of course, I told DD it was her own fault and the least she deserved, as many posting here have suggested the OP do to her own DD. delia if you hadn't realised already you know now, never post on AIBU suggesting that a school might have done something wrong, that way lies madness.

JambalayaCodfishPie Fri 18-Jan-13 23:03:01

Goodness me. How lucky that sotiredofitall, happened to be about today! wink

So OP. What are you going to do about it now you have conclusive evidence of such a serious safeguarding issue?

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