To feel a wee bit sorry for the bully girl in the new "happy slapping" video?

(93 Posts)
Bluemonkeyspots Thu 17-Jan-13 12:43:19

I mean the one with the girl jolene bullying the autistic boy.

The video is disgusting and makes very uncomfortable viewing, I felt sick watching it and putting my own dc in the place of the poor boy, if it was my dc I would want to rip her head off but I'm also really disturbed by all the comments about the girl that are online.

She is only 14 and I can't help but feel a bit sorry for her, maybe she is just pure nasty through and through but none of us know her background story.

While it would not make what she did ok what if she is abused at home by her own parents? What if there is nobody to support her through this and it pushes her to take her own life?

Maybe I'm just going soft due to pregnancy hormones but I really don't like all the hate groups springing up on Facebook etc with adults calling her all the nasty names under the sun and listing the disgusting things they would do to her. Can they not see the irony in what they are doing.

YABU to feel sorry for her. Any sympathy should go to the guy on the receiving end who didn't retaliate at all because she was a girl.

There are plenty of people who are abused in some way, shape or form who don't behave like this. I don't care about backstory - even if there is some backstory, it's still not right even if a touch more understandable.

As for the comments, yes, it is another form of bullying. A lesser form of "I'd cut his balls off" to a paedophile. Understandable, but not right.

Flobbadobs Thu 17-Jan-13 12:49:45

Haven't seen the video and not planning to. I hate this craze of everything going viral. To my mind it encourages a type of vigilante pitchfork and flaming torches mentality. These videos are around forever, these people captured in them could change or grow up to be perfect model citizens but will be forever stuck with the images caught on someones camera phone.
And before I get roasted, yes I feel incredibly sorry for the lad and hope he is getting help to recover, and no my DC's don't 'happyslap' anyone.

fluffywhitekittens Thu 17-Jan-13 12:53:05
Catchingmockingbirds Thu 17-Jan-13 12:58:58

Sympathy should go to the poor boy she viciously attacked. My son has autism, he is only 5 and has already experienced bullying. Try and imagine what this boy, who already has a neurological disorder which makes understanding and fitting into the world around him much more difficult, has to experience. I sadly doubt this is the first time he's been bullied.

I've just watched it and feel no sympathy for her at all, I wouldn't join in with those saying nasty things about her but really I can see why people are so outraged by her behaviour and certainly can't blame them for feeling as they do. I feel a bit sick after watching the video, the only person I sympathise with is the lad she attacked.

Flobbadobs Thu 17-Jan-13 12:59:22

Just read it. Wow. Just wow..

Flobbadobs Thu 17-Jan-13 13:02:19

What she did (still haven't watched it) was a disgusting thing, theres no doubt and the lad deserves much sympathy but does anyone actually deserve comments like "she should apologise and then kill herself"?. Especially a child? From adults? Theres an argument that the affect of social media is getting out of hand and I agree with it.

Catchingmockingbirds Thu 17-Jan-13 13:04:17

I don't think the boy deserved comments such as 'spastic' either.

Bluemonkeyspots Thu 17-Jan-13 13:06:27

I do feel sorry for the boy, I hope his life at school will be so much more pleasant for him now and he handled himself with so much dignity in the video. His family must be heartbroken about this and I hope they get the support they need to deal with the media frenzy around it, but I still can't help but feel a bit sorry for the girl. The other child filming is just as much to blame but it's the girl jolene who is getting all the hatred directed at her.

Flobbadobs Thu 17-Jan-13 13:06:29

No he didn't catching, not at all but should she be told to kill herself because of it?

HecateWhoopass Thu 17-Jan-13 13:06:57

ok, so this may not even be true? Why do people do such things?

Assuming that it is true and even if this particular instance isn't - there is still the issue of vulnerable people being abused in many ways by others within society and so speaking generally about that issue (and sorry blue, I can't remember whether it's one or two autistic children you've got, but mine both are and so that's where I'm coming from) - I cannot dredge up one ounce of sympathy for anyone who thinks it's ok to do such kind of things to someone who is as vulnerable as my own children are. I know that sounds heartless, but all I see are my children who can only look forward to a lifetime of being cared for by others, who will never have a job, or a home of their own, or children...

They can look forward to a lifetime of crap thrown at them, it seems. Already socially isolated. People tolerating them. My eldest has no friends at all. So vulnerable. And yet somehow we've got to have a big warm forgiving heart for those who would make our own children's lives harder? No. Sorry. I can't do it. I've got nothing in my heart for those who are dishing out the crap to children like mine.

People who think it's ok to sneer, steal from, attack, etc, vulnerable people are the reason I don't intend to ever let my children anywhere without someone to support them, even if they got to a stage where they would be able to be safe themselves - eg not running into traffic, they are sitting ducks and I won't let that happen.

Jins Thu 17-Jan-13 13:08:56

Sorry I can't feel sorry for her either.

McBalls Thu 17-Jan-13 13:09:02

Why did you watch the video? What did you get out of it?

Won't be watching (obviously) but of course a bully has probably had their own shite to deal with, which maybe have taken a toll on ability to empathise or similar.

Just as a rapist will probably have experienced some unpleasantness, ditto child abusers, drug dealers, murderers, drink drivers, racists, bigots and common or garden tosspots.

So what? What difference does it make? Does that make it easier to the victim? Or mean that others who have suffered but manage not to be a nasty git deserve a medal?

Yes, she's probably gone through shit, no I don't give a toss (and I think the only ones who should are those in a position to devise/offer rehabilitation).

No-one deserves to be spoken/written about in that way, but in all honesty she didn't care about what she was doing to the lad she attacked, at least she can choose to turn a computer off or not to read whats been written, that lad had no choice other than to listen to her and have her attack him.

Catchingmockingbirds Thu 17-Jan-13 13:13:23

She will be forgotten about when the next video goes viral, but he will have to deal with these attitudes forever.

BegoniaBampot Thu 17-Jan-13 13:13:42

no sympathy for her. already saw this on fb and some comments. i choose not to comment as don't see it's helpful. wasn't sure if it was real , looked set up and theatrical.

PeachActiviaMinge Thu 17-Jan-13 13:16:33

Bullying is never right I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for the idiots that go out there and do this sort of thing to anyone no matter how shit your homelife is it will never give you a right to do this to anyone.

No she probably doesn't deserve the nasty comments but then she is a nasty little piece of work herself and theres always that old adage of you shouldn't be willing to dish out what you can't take she thought it was fine to abuse that boy it could cause him to take his life as it does hundreds of bullied children every year and I bet she never thought twice about what she was doing. I have no sympathy for people like her.

PandaOnAPushBike Thu 17-Jan-13 13:17:03


She deserves no sympathy what so ever. If she didn't want to face negative reprecussions for her behaviour, she shouldn't have done it.

My autistic nephew left school at 12 because of this kind of abuse. My autistic husband stayed at school but says he was 'hunted down like an animal every day and beaten'. Their childhoods were ruined by violent, abusive youngsters like her who think they can do what they like to whoever they like and walk away.

Catchingmockingbirds Thu 17-Jan-13 13:20:06

^"it could cause him to take his life^"

Suicide rates for those on the spectrum are high too.

Nancy66 Thu 17-Jan-13 13:20:25

don't agree with all the abuse she is now on the receiving end of (although I do think it's a shame she'll be too thick to appreciate the rich irony of it.)

But no sympathy for her. She's a horrible bully of the worst kind - ie she picks on the vulnerable.

YABU and need to stop using the term "happy slapping", that was changed along with "joy riding", to spell out what it is, assault.

There have been deaths caused by being hit, supposedly in the name of fun and so there was another video to post on Youtube.

I am sorry that people have backgrounds that cause them to need help, but don't feel sorry for anyone that actually acts on their feelings, iyswim.

merlincat Thu 17-Jan-13 13:31:07

My beautiful teenage daughter has put up with shit like this all her life yet still remains an optimist and sees the best in everyone; no, I don't feel compassion for Jolene, she can rot in hell for all I care.

FellatioNels0n Thu 17-Jan-13 13:35:20

I don't have any sympathy for her whatsoever. I have not watched it and do not intend to, but hopefully its going viral will help people have more compassion and understanding towards people like the young lad, and less tolerance of behaviour like hers.

I'm not really interested in whatever problems she may or may not have. It's no excuse. And as for all those comments quoted on that blog - if she'd laid a finger on my younger, defenceless child I'd have called her exactly the same and worse.

^ I agree with Birds about the term 'happy slapping', it makes it sound like its funny and everyone is having a jolly old time when in reality there is a (usually violent) crime being committed against someone.

happynewmind Thu 17-Jan-13 13:37:49

I haven't watched it but has a Sen child who is also being investigated for autism. There's not a week goes by my dd is not subjected to name calling on how she talks, walks, acts and looks, she's been punched, bit , pushed into fences, urinated on when she was younger. She's had people intentionally knock her over then fall on her.

But the worse is the name calling about her being stupid and thick and ugly and isolating her.

At ten she's covering her mouth when she speaks because a couple of her teeth haven't grown straight and they've called her for it. They aren't even bad and its only because her mouth is too small and she will have extractions next year so there's room for them and a brace.

The fact is she's really pretty, she was picked by a legit modelling agency last year in a competition.

But the bastards have finally convinced her she's stupid and ugly.

So I find it hard to have sympathy to be honest with someone who is only sorry now it's her who is feeling afraid.

StickEmUp Thu 17-Jan-13 13:41:11

I think if you were her victim or his parents or friends you wouldnt have a shred of sympathy.


Nancy66 Thu 17-Jan-13 13:51:00

happynewmind - your poor daughter sad

IloveJudgeJudy Thu 17-Jan-13 13:59:54

I haven't and won't watch the video. However, this seems to me to be a trend. Some girls (and I have a DD myself) seem to think it's OK to hit boys and know that if the boys retaliate, they will get called girl beaters. It is not OK to hit anyone, but to hit someone, knowing that they cannot/will not retaliate is despicable. I hadn't realised that the boy concerned has SN, but that makes the whole situation worse.

thefirstmrsrochester Thu 17-Jan-13 14:04:02

This makes me sad on several counts
- that it happened at all
- that her friends were happy enough to stand by and watch
- that it was filmed and put on YouTube
- that there are so many vile and aggressive comments being left on Internet forums by presumably grown adults
- that an 11 year old could have so little self respect for herself that she on turn has no respect for others
- that the family home was tracked down & the windows smashes and the family have relocated for their safety
Yes, it's an example of vile bullying. My dc attend school in the same region. This is not what you would call uncommon, it just happened to get filmed, uploaded & went viral. So many young folk are almost feral - what the hell has happened in society to get to this?
She is 11, not 14.
I am sorry for the boy on the receiving end and sad for the reasons ^

AllThatGlistens Thu 17-Jan-13 14:05:44

Save your sympathy for the victim. God these things make my blood boil! This is a particularly emotive subject for me at the moment, my oldest son is autistic and we're currently having our 2 yr old assessed too, the likelihood being that he is also autistic.

Bullying will never stop until we start educating our children, neurotypical or other. How can anyone reassure me that my boys will ever be safe in the outside world whilst people feel sorry for the perpetrators and minimise the amount of harm they cause? Not in my lifetime, I suspect sad

JaponicaTroggs Thu 17-Jan-13 14:08:02

As the parent of a lovely autistic fourteen year old boy this kind of thing makes me weep as it could so easily be him. He would have no clue how to defend himself. Can't believe that there are people making excused for this scum. Personally I think this type of bleeding heart "feel sorry for the bully" crap is what has created and enabled a generation of Jolene types in the first place.
Feel sorry for her?, seriously, get a dose of reality.

Flobbadobs Thu 17-Jan-13 14:18:02

How can we educate our children to understand that bullying is unacceptable when online bullying of children by supposed adults of the type mentioned in the link upthread is becoming more acceptable with every incident?
All types of bullying behaviour should be unacceptable.
I recently saw a post on an FB site (local group) about one members child being bullied at school. The replies underneath were from people I knew and considered to be kind, lovely people in general were posting comments asking for names and addresses of the bullies so they could go round and 'sort them out'. These were people who I knew damn well would not tolerate their own children being involved in bullying behaviour but were competely prepared to go round and threaten and beat up 11 yo children. I know I'm not the only person to have left the group in disgust. How have we got to the stage where any of this on any level is acceptable?
My DS is currently waiting for a referral as we suspect Aspergers. He was bullied when younger and humiliated in class by a small group of children. At no point did we want these children to harm themselves in remorse! Maybe we were just lucky that we got support from the school and crucially from the childrens parents to get it sorted. The constant nasty remarks, name calling, tripping him up in class, spraying water at his pants to make him look like he had wet himself all stopped. They will never be mates but they are quite civil to each other now.
The whole thing makes me very very angry.

confusteling Thu 17-Jan-13 14:36:09

I do feel sad for her.

I had very similar things happen to me at school - never physical violence but I was sexually assualted and harrassed, and my life was a misery, from I think primary one - although I can vaguely remember incidents from nursery - right up until I had left school at age eighteen.

I feel very sorry for the people who treated me in the way they did; I've never understood why they did it. They treated me like shit and for them to have found that acceptable, they must have had hellish home lives and weird upbringings.

I mean - I thought my home life was hard as a child, but I had the benefit of parents who while they weren't always there, taught me right from wrong and clearly for whatever reason, these children/teens lacked that, which is quite sad.

"Jolene" has effectively ruined her life and his and there's not a lot she can do to solve it now, sadly.

I fail to understand the behaviour of grown adults wishing an eleven year old child dead. Very strange and very hypocritical.

FellatioNels0n Thu 17-Jan-13 14:52:23

Why so much pity for her? shock She's experiencing a little snippet of what it feels like to be hated, sneered at, insulted and intimidated. Some people live their whole lives feeling like that - she's just having a little taster of what she dishes out. Hopefully it will teach her a valuable lesson and she'll grow up to be a half decent human being after all.

Veritate Thu 17-Jan-13 15:00:29

I must say, I really dislike the "no sympathy" line which so often appears in comments on stories like this. We don't know all the facts, and, loathsome as this girl's behaviour seems to have been, it can't conceivably be appropriate for adults to be publicising loud calls for her to commit suicide.

Vagaceratops Thu 17-Jan-13 15:05:07

I find it extremely difficult to have one iota of sympathy for her.

Maybe now she will realise what it feels like to be a victim.

I've not seen or heard of it. What is it all about? Sounds horrific sad

It is possible to feel sympathy for two victims of bullying. I haven't watched the video but this kind of bullying is heartbreaking and very widespread. I worked for SS in an LD team and it is really dreadful what happens. And people have killed themselves after being the victim of this.

As well, calling a child a slag, witch, slut and saying they (adults) would like to kick her in the cunt or hit her with a chair, "she fuckin takes it up the arse"? Words fail me. Both are reprehensible.

tbh I think public shaming is the way forward for dealing with bullies, bet she's not so cocky now.

Nancy66 Thu 17-Jan-13 15:21:22

EastHolly - it was mobile phone footage uploaded to Youtube and picked up by several newspapers.

It featured two school girls picking on a boy. One girl was filming on her phone and goading as the other girl (Jolene) blocked the path of the boy walking home from school. She calls him names and ridicules him. She says several times 'don't worry I won't hit ya' and then continually shoves him before slapping him several times in the face.

thefirstmrsrochester Thu 17-Jan-13 15:23:32

Pity i think because she is an 11 year old girl who, for whatever reason, has got to this stage in her young life with a woefully lacking sense of decency. As for all the downright aggressive and inappropriate posts that are being lobbed about the internet about what should be done to her - is this not bullying and harassment? Yes, she gets a taste of her own medicine but adults attacking her viciously online?

I've managed to track it down now sad So so sad - for them both I sort of agree. How can a child think that sort of behaviour is acceptable? And as for adults and their comments on fb etc, that is just outrageous. It's akin to the hysteria that crops up about 'peedos' etc.

Catchingmockingbirds Thu 17-Jan-13 15:49:06

She was punching him in the face, not slapping him. She was calling him a spastic etc too because he has autism, hence the replies on this thread relating to autism.

IDrankAllTheGravy Thu 17-Jan-13 15:55:37

I do slightly agree. There was a point he said something and she shouted back "don't you fucking cheek me" or something along those lines, but the way she said it looked as if she was imitating an adult. I could be totally wrong, I just got the impression she's not had it easy in her home life.

Still, that's no excuse to pick on an innocent boy, special needs or no special needs.

Groovee Thu 17-Jan-13 16:02:01

An 11 year old and a 15 year old have been reported to the childrens panel and hopefully will be remorseful of what they have done. There is no reason for any child to behave like this and if I found my 12 year old or 10 year old behaved like this they would be punished and understand this is not tolerated.

SinisterBuggyMonth Thu 17-Jan-13 16:06:51

Zilch stympathy. Bullies make enough use of the internet, facebook and texting to attack their victims, infiltrating their out of school hours and homelife in a way my generation never endured. I'm guessing thats not the one and only time shes bullied someone, even if its the only time shes been filmed.

heather1 Thu 17-Jan-13 16:17:43

She is old enough to know what is right and what is wrong. She decided to take the action she did. Do I feel sorry for her that it ended up on the internet? No. Are the people making vitriolic comments about her in some small way as bad as her? Yes.
I feel more sympathy for the boy being slapped. My son was bullied at his new school, we are in Europe but not the UK. No action was taken against the bullies, even when my son was punched in the face on more than one occasion. As a result of the school not taking action we have removed him from the school and are homeschooling while we wait for a place at a school that will try to ensure he recieves the happy school experience he should have had. He is in a form of therapy to repair his damaged self-esteem and desire to protect his family from his bad experience. He is 8. And the bullies - still at the same school, no doubt having moved on to other targets now my son is not available to them. And the school teachers are as bad as the bullies as they did the bare minimum the help my son. Bullies need help yes of course to stop their behaviour. But sympathy for the results of such horrible action, not from me.

merlottits Thu 17-Jan-13 16:26:52

This seems to be a fashion. My 15 year old DS comes home with bruises and cuts from injuries caused by females. The girls taunt the boys who 9/10 times won't retaliate because they are girls. Disgusting. Just an extension of the ladette culture I expect.

There have been times when I've half wanted to tell my son to lamp one girl to stop it but I know its wrong and you know that HE would be the evil one and she would be the innocent little female. angry

TinyDancingHoofer Thu 17-Jan-13 17:05:50

YABU. This wasn't a small scuffle between children. This was a violent attack by someone who knew what they were doing. The girl should be in in a detention centre.

WilsonFrickett Thu 17-Jan-13 17:27:35

The comments are disgusting. We don't educate people not to bully by bullying back. However my sympathy is entirely with the boy. I should say I haven't watched the video though. With a vulnerable boy, I already have nightmares about this sort of thing. I don't need to see it on YouTube.

McBalls Thu 17-Jan-13 18:17:28

The people leaving hateful comments bottom-feeders who frequent newspaper/YouTube/faceache comments sections.

No matter what the story, they would leave vile comments. It's just who they are and what they do.

Doesn't elicit any sympathy from me for this girl though.

McBalls Thu 17-Jan-13 18:21:08

Haven't read the comments btw, or seen the video (and won't be) but just going by what's been said here.

Online comment sections really do attract the dregs of society.

WhatchuTalkinBoutPhyllis Thu 17-Jan-13 18:26:22

YABVVU angry How could anyone with half a brain watch that video and feel anything but disgust towards that girl? On yer bike

fourfingerkitkat Thu 17-Jan-13 18:33:18

I'll be honest, I'm one of those people who thought " little witch" when I saw the video. What she did that boy was disgusting but it does not merit the volume of hatred that it's been given. She's 11 and from God knows what kind of background.

I just find the whole situation so, so sad. First of all (and most of all) that the poor boy was subjected to that assault and secondly that for some reason a young girl has been brought up to think that it's acceptable to treat another person this way.

Greensleeves Thu 17-Jan-13 18:46:32

I feel sorry for all of them

the whole situation is utterly horrendous - I understand the hate she has attracted (if I could have had 5 minutes alone with the little monster that made my ds1 scared to go to school in KS1...) but she doesn't deserve the level of vitriol and threats of violence. Nobody does.

I was bullied physically and mentally for years and years. I know exactly how it feels to know for certain that you are the most unpopular and the ugliest person in the school and to be told it, every day. I've had my stuff stamped on and broken, one of my fingers deliberately broken, kicked i the crotch so I couldn't walk, boiling hot mashed potato thrown in my face in front of a hall full of people laughing and clapping. I used to sit down at meals and everyone would get up and leave, because I was so disgusting I was putting them off their food.

I am almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (I would stake my house on it) and didn't fit in. My ds1 has Aspergers and episodes like this one make my blood run cold. It's terrifying. When I read posts by parents on MN whose children are being victimised in the same way, it makes my stomach clench. It is terrible to feel so helpless and natural to want to flatten the little sods who are doing it.

But we are NOT going to help the situation with hate and more violence and turning our backs in disgust. The only way to change it is the long way round - education, awareness, training up pupils, staff and parents, raising the profile of disabilities, equipping our kids with coping strategies.

porridgewithalmondmilk Thu 17-Jan-13 18:48:18

I just watched it on mute so I did not hear the comments, but it brought back some horrible memories.

I was a quiet girl at school, so in year 7, my Drama teacher cast me as a dog in the play we were doing, obviously intending to be kind. Unfortunately, it led to years of bullying. It was absolutely awful. Other kids used to bark at me constantly, "you fucking ugly dog" "dog breath" "you look like dog's meat" "bitch." It was CONSTANT. I used to dread answering a question in a lesson as someone would bark, and then everyone would laugh.

It was also physical - shoving, pushing, hitting, kicking, but it wasn't even that. It was the feeling of absolute powerlessness, feeling as if you didn't matter and your feelings were there to be laughed at. And it's stayed with me until adult life. My parents moved me out of that school in the end and although I wasn't bullied at my new school I wasn't with girls/boys I'd been at primary at either and didn't have strong bonds as a result.

It ruined three years of my life, destroyed my self confidence, had me hate myself. It ruined our family life - my mum and dad were obviously upset I was upset - it is so hard to add up and put into words what you lose.

No child should ever, ever, ever be made to feel like that. Children are only sweet to adults, to one another they are so scary. I had kids like that square up to me and even when I was taller it made my knees shake and my heart pound, and the constant threat of it happening was terrible.

I don't feel sorry for the girl. Perhaps I should but I don't.

If that was my son though my heart would break for him but I would also be so proud. What a gorgeous young man he is.

PeneloPeePitstop Thu 17-Jan-13 18:54:48

Can't bring myself to watch it, no matter how disgusting this little madam is though she doesn't deserve 'kill yourself' type of comments.

Nice that she's on the receiving end of bullying, though.

mrsjay Thu 17-Jan-13 19:12:30

dont feel sorry for her yes she needs help she beat up somebody she has obviously got problems but she isn't to be pitied imo

AllYoursBabooshka Thu 17-Jan-13 19:13:21

I just can't, I have really tried to feel sympathy for this girl but I simply can't.

The fact that he is stood there with his glasses in his hand, waiting to be for her to hurt him and get it over with... He just want's to go home.

I'm not sure what I would be capable of if he were my son.

LetsFaceTheMusicAndDance Thu 17-Jan-13 19:44:44

I can't watch the video or read the comments about the girl - DS with ASD so it's too close to home.

What punishment did the girl have for doing what she did - or was she not brought to account because of her age?

BTW - I wouldn't trust myself in a room with someone who treated my son in this way either.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Thu 17-Jan-13 20:13:41

A society that tells 11 year old girls to "kill yourself whore bitch", etc, is not one that will become more caring and sensitive towards children with special needs.

The whole thing is horrific and depressing and while I certainly feel most sorry for the young boy, my sympathy and empathy are not limited to just one recipient. Young children should not be targets of viral abuse, no matter how awful what they did was. It won't make anything better.

Mia4 Thu 17-Jan-13 21:15:18

YANBU to hate the mob mentality and trolling that goes online, it shows a really nasty side to people sometimes-especially when you get those describing how they'd murder or maim someone in retribution.

But YABU to try and think of reasons to justify this girl being the victim The boy is the victim, the girl the bully, there is no excusing behaving like that. Whatever her life or even if she's been in terrible situations it is not an excuse or reasoning for her choices. Plenty of people are shitty controlling bullies having had great lives. Many people have been fucked over during their life but don't choose to take out on others.

Life is full of choices. This girl made hers as did her enabling friend, they have to take responsibility for them if this videos real. You can hate the vile comments and mob mentality, even agree that yes it's ironic in it's context but that's completely different to feeling sorry for her and trying to excuse her behaviour.

BoneyBackJefferson Thu 17-Jan-13 22:03:56


Its interesting that the article tries to blame the victim several times and tries to excuse the girl by the supposition of backstory

Branleuse Thu 17-Jan-13 22:15:31

not uncommon in schools unfortunately. Was pretty much an everyday thing at my school. Wonder why this video has got public attention?

Gibbous Thu 17-Jan-13 22:25:25

I am always incredulous when people rail against bullying by using the same aggressive bullying themselves.

Can they really not see the awful irony? Or is it just an excuse to get all stupid and violent?

shesariver Thu 17-Jan-13 22:33:45

Sick of people trotting out the sympathy vote for bullies when it should be the victims that matter. But no, lets all look for a reason, shes had a difficult childhood blah blah, couldnt care less. My DS was bullied by a psychopathic 11 year old so badly we had to move house to get away from him as he was our neighbour. So I would love to see all of you that have sympathy for this bully feel the same if you had watched your child destroyed physically and mentally and felt powerless to get anything done because it was a child.

fluffywhitekittens Thu 17-Jan-13 22:38:08

What she did was terrible and she deserves punishment. I don't know the whole story, I don't know her or his background. I don't know how many people were there watching and recording.
But I have read a few of the Facebook comments and they made me feel physically sick.
How do you possibly teach someone like her who bullies ( and possibly has been bullied or abused) that it's wrong and there are alternative ways when this is the reaction?

Greensleeves Thu 17-Jan-13 22:42:04

some of us have been through this ourselves shesariver, and can still see that piling more hate and anger into the situation is not contributing to a solution hmm

what would YOU like to do? Lock up all the damaged children? There are too many, and there is nowhere to put them. We have to be grown-up and think smarter than that.

TBH this is why victims and their families DON'T get to make the decisions about what happens to perpetrators. Because if they did, we would be living in a very frightening society.

shesariver Thu 17-Jan-13 23:10:25

At no point did I say "piling on more hate and anger" is acceptable - Im talking about sympathy expressed for the bully!

Greensleeves - you have no clue what my DS and my family have been through, what I wrote was only a brief few sentences, so dont patronise me with all this "poor bullies " claptrap, society and what we do with them. There is no hope for the boy that terrorised my DS, he doesnt want to change as he gets far too much pleasure doing what he does. I will bide my time, as he wont always be a child and dealt with by the Childrens Panel system, one day he will be an equally bad adult who will undoubtedly kill someone, just very thankful its not my son. So he can rot for all I care.

shesariver Thu 17-Jan-13 23:12:29

The Policeman that dealt with the charges we brought against him said he was the most manipulative liar he had ever seen in his career, some going.

Callycat Thu 17-Jan-13 23:28:16

Haven't seen the video. But she is a child, and therefore capable of change. Sadly, that change is much less likely to occur if she is publicly stamped as "bad". People are much more complex than that.

Gah, I've just seen too many "bad" people turn their lives around to be comfortable with this. We're all capable of badness under shitty enough circumstances.

Whilst not agreeing with the extreme responses & mob response (obviously), no I didn't feel sorry for her really. [competing interest: mother of a child with severe learning disabilities]

SinisterBuggyMonth Thu 17-Jan-13 23:40:42

The article on an earlier link is pretty vague and seemed to be blaming the victim.

Despite the invention of the web I dont believe we live in a world that confronts bullies, we live in a world where they are tollerated, bolshyness is encouraged as confidence, and any slight difference is viewed as fair game for bullies. No officials ever rush to defend the victims, to examin their background. A kudos surrounds defending the bully, like finding rough diamond.

Soon the next viral wil come along, and Jolene will be consigned to the scrap pile, along with the Cat Bin Lady and the Croydon racist tram woman. And she will just carry on bullying other children and no one will do anything about it.

Greensleeves Fri 18-Jan-13 00:25:36

admittedly my experience of really severe bullying is based on my own childhood, not my children's. if I think about it, yes, the picking on/ostracising my ds has had has been really mild by comparison, but it upset me much more and made me very angry. So I do see where you are coming from shesariver - I don't have experience of my child suffering what this poor lad or your ds have been through.

I wasn't trying to patronise you though. I just feel strongly that demonising young offenders doesn't help improve matters. But as you say, I have the luxury of a relatively detached perspective and I might be different if I had had my child being beaten up and terrified. sad

SirBoobAlot Fri 18-Jan-13 00:30:41

I haven't watched it, I don't want to - having the jist is enough.

I was horrifically bullied throughout school. I still get those pangs of fear in my stomach if I see them in the street. My life was hell, every single day. I was pushed down stairs, had my hair set on fire, was put in a box and kicked, had my arms pinned to the table in class so they could cut my wrists with a compass and screech "slit rat" at me.

But I don't hate the people that did that any more. At least, not by itself. People only do things like that because they have been taught it is okay, or because they are trying to escape from their own internal pain. So now I pity them, for whatever pushed them to behave like that.

And the more we label children with issues as lost causes, the more likely they are to let go of hope themselves, and become what they themselves do probably not want to be.

Greensleeves Fri 18-Jan-13 00:44:20

So sorry you went through that BoobAlotsad

I don't hate the people who did it to me either. They were just angry miserable kids a long way from home (boarding school). But I will never get rid of it either. I used to open the door to the common room and get pelted with compasses, books, shoes, kicked, trapped under a chair with someone sitting on it and get deodorant sprayed into my face - we used to get told to go in there by the teachers, and I wasn't "allowed" in there because the boys said I was too disgusting. I wasn't allowed to sit with my year group in assembly either as I would get pelted with hymn books and my hair spat in, so I used to sit at the front with the first years. I stayed because my home life was even worse and that place was my only way out. But because I stayed, I was there when they grew up a bit and the bullying faded, and I worked hard to get to know those people, some of them even apologised when we all left.

I suppose I have clung to the fact that I don't hate them as an empowerment thing and I have definitely brought that with me onto this thread. BUT I can see, now it has been pointed out, that watching your ow child go through this is a totally different ball game. So I am sorry my comments were patronising and unhelpful.

ThatVikRinA22 Fri 18-Jan-13 00:47:21

blimey boobs you are forgiving. smile and good on you. you are unique and very lovely.

as the mother of someone who endured a fairly shit time through school i dont think im quite so forgiving....i think its harder to watch someone who love go through this shit on a daily basis.

but i agree - some of hte comments on this girl are uncalled for. i hope now she realises what it feels like to be a victim of abuse might just make her think in future.

StraightTalkinSheila Fri 18-Jan-13 04:26:49

YABU. She needs to realise it is totally unacceptable to assault another person. She needs to accept that to taunt someone as she did is cruel.
She needs to accept that her actions have consequences.
Regardless of how difficult her childhood has been, it does not in any way excuse her behaviour. She is old enough to know that what she has done is wrong.
However, I do not approve of the ferocity of the comments against her, especially form adults, as that is tantamount to bullying itself.

shesariver Fri 18-Jan-13 12:38:01

Thank you greensleeves, I wasnt trying to sound nasty..just a bit angry , so Im sorry to if that came across, of course no-one here knows what happend, suffice to say losing our home was a small price as my DH nearly lost his business (he is a male CM), this bully was actually our next door neighbour and he soon started verbally assualting the mindees when they were in our garden and throwing stones over the fence at them etc. the stress placed on our marriage was immense and every night when I came home from work I would dread finding out what had happened that day.

All against a background of my poor DS being attacked physically (apart from the one serious observed incident which was witnessed by anotehr parent as it was at the school gates we couldnt charge him again as he did it with no witnesses) and feeling completely helpless to actually stop it, because some people cut him slack because he had had a difficult childhood. This ranged from friends to professionals.

Im sorry you had to experience bullying yourself to.

Greensleeves Fri 18-Jan-13 14:33:30

How awful that your family were terrorised like that sad

I hope your ds is happier now x

merlincat Fri 18-Jan-13 14:55:09

I waded in further upthread with how I felt no compassion for the girl and I was quite abusive. I discussed this incident with my three children; Dd2 12 ( NT) said that the child was disgusting and deserved the insults, Ds 15 (NT) agreed while Dd1 17 (Aspergers) said that my comments were horrible and that no-one should judge such a young child. I think that that reaction tells you quite a lot about many people with autism. Perhaps we could all learn from them.

bee169 Fri 18-Jan-13 15:40:37

As a mother of a very sweet and kind autistic child this sort of video fills me with dread sad

Now that the bully is getting bullied does not make me want to sympathise with her. She is now feeling the fear she was more than happy to dish out. I am just surprised that people are looking to defend her!!

AutumnMadness Fri 18-Jan-13 16:50:49

I am probably going to get pelted here as I have not experience bulling myself or witnessed overt and serious situations of bulling in my life. But it seems to me that people who behave in terrible ways always do out of some kind of internal problems. They can be mental as in terrible home life, abusive parents, or physical (e.g. learning disabilities that have not been addressed properly or even noticed). It may (MAY) be that the girl in question has some form of disabilities herself. People, like animals, lash out because of fear.

I am not using this as an excuse for horrible behaviour. There is enough of it out there (rape, murder, abuse) that makes me intensely sad and sick and afraid myself. And yes, people, and especially adults, are reponsible for their own behaviour. But they do not come from nowhere. Just look at the recent articles on the link between lead poisoning and violent behaviour. And then there may be a potential bully/abuser in every one of us - read about the Milgram experiments if you are not familiar with them yet. "The Banality of Evil" is also an appropriate read here.

So dividing the world into black and white, hurling abuse at the other side is probably not the way to achieve justice or make a world a better place. And it is possible to feel intense sympathy with the victim in this video, not to excuse the behaviour of the bully but at the same time wonder how this bully was made and what could be done to help her and other children like her.

GreenShadow Fri 18-Jan-13 19:46:33

bee169, I don't think anyone is defending her.

What they are doing is feeling a little sympathy for a situation that has got out of hand.

I (regrettable) took a look at a Facebook page where people are literally baying for the bully's blood. Totally uncalled for and frankly quite frightening. They can't seem to get it into their heads that what they are calling for is just as bad as what the girl has done.

shesariver Sat 19-Jan-13 00:35:26

autumn fair enough, but I really do think you would think differently if you and your child had been through what we have. Now I really dont care how my DSs bully was "made". But whilst people like you think like you do we will always have a society that favours the bully over the victim, and thats just how it is. You have no idea how sad your post has made me and frustrated. But I know everyone thinks differently about this so I will leave it at that. And I have worked with plenty of people with terrible childhoods who dont turn into bullies.

AutumnMadness Sat 19-Jan-13 12:08:35

shesariver, as I said, I am aware of the subjectivity of my position and I am very honest about it. I am do not understand, however, how my wanting to understand how bullies are made actually produces them. Understanding is not the same as excusing. How are we to then to deal with the problem? It's a bit like wanting to eliminate obesity without knowing why people get fat in the first place. I can understand your emotional position and your not wanting to engage with bullies. I would probably be the same if I was a victim of serious crime. But I am not sure why you do not want others to think about how to prevent bulling behaviour. What would your solution to the problem be?

AutumnMadness Sat 19-Jan-13 12:15:26

shesariver, perhaps I am not making myself totally clear. I do not mean "understanding how bullies are made" as conducting an in-depth longitudinal research of a bully in action and doing nothing to stop him/her and also doing nothing to help the victim. Of course bulling has to be stopped immediately, through schools, police, social services, voluntary organisations. And it is despicable that many institutions in our society do not see bulling as a problem and even openly encourage it.

ophelia275 Sat 19-Jan-13 12:31:04

I don't feel sorry for her at all. If she can't take it she shouldn't dish it out.

AutumnMadness Sat 19-Jan-13 12:36:30

ophelia275, if she could take it, would it be ok for her to dish it out then?

TempNC Sat 19-Jan-13 13:02:10

This sadly reminds me of a situation I intervened in about five years ago. I was out shopping alone in my local precinct when I saw a group of girls (about 15/16 years old) pushing and shoving a young man with Downs Syndrome. The names they were calling him were utterly vile and the thing that made my blood boil was that members of the public were just walking past when it was pretty obvious this poor man was being atrociously bullied.

I'm not trying to look like a martyr here but I stormed over and pulled him away, while giving those scumbags a piece of my mind. In return I was spat at and called a 'nosy cunt.' Those kids were bloody vile. They were still trying to get at him while I led him away. I called the police and they were very good but I cried my eyes out when I got home. I just felt so bloody cross and upset for that poor lad.

So in regards to the OP, I think YABU to feel sorry for that girl in the video. Regardless of whether she has had a tough upbringing there is no excuse for that sort of behaviour; at 14 you know the difference between right and wrong, so no sympathy from me.

MyBaby1day Tue 22-Jan-13 07:08:04

YABU, I feel no sympathy for bullies like this girl, only sympathy I have is for the poor lad. Karma is only a bitch if you are...hey Jolene!.

MrsBucketxx Tue 22-Jan-13 08:05:07

I have no sympathy either, maybe if more people stood up to bullies like this the bullies woukd think twice about what they are doing.

But thats assuming they have the brains to do this.

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