If SIL doesn't put down the local school, she won't get it?

(84 Posts)
spongeypants Wed 16-Jan-13 23:25:01

SIL does not like any of the local schools and they would like to move to the neighbouring suburb anyway. They have put down 6 schools, 2 in the suburb they would like to move to and the other four all over subscribed, where you have to be living practically in the playground to get a place. From speaking to other mums, no chance of getting in. They have not put down the local school. She reasons that the council make the decisions and that DD may just be given the local school regardless but wanted to try and get in the others. I have tried to explain to her that it doesn't work like that and if she didn't put it down, she won't get it as plenty of other families do want it!

Its more likely that as she won't be successful with any of her choices, she they will get the failing school with the signs in the corridors asking parents to refrain from smoking.

How does it work, do councils allocate kids to the local school regardless sof choice, like she says?

As far as I'm aware, if you don't put it down you don't get it. However, if you aren't given any of your 'choices' then the council allocate you a place, sometimes the nearest school, sometimes miles away. I stand corrected if I'm wrong, but that's how it worked when I put down my choice for DS 2 yrs ago.

And never to an over-subscribed school, always to one with spaces. Tell her to get her name down now.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 16-Jan-13 23:36:52

If her DD doesn't meet the application criteria for any of the schools she has put down as her choices, then she will be given whatever places are left.

She runs the real risk of ending up with the failing and therefore undersubscribed school, because she will be allocated a place at the end of the process, along with all the other kids with dense parents who have done the same. Her DD will not automatically be awarded a place at her catchment school - which is what it sounds like your SIL thinks happens.

IThinkOfHappyWhenIThinkOfYou Wed 16-Jan-13 23:38:14

They allocate the nearest school with a place, so if the local school is oversubscribed then she won't get in.

Blu Wed 16-Jan-13 23:40:28

If the local school is full or oversubscribed with people who did put it on the list, then no, she won't be offered it. If it does have places after everyone else who put it down has been offered a place then she might be lucky and be offered it.

But yes, unless she is lucky with a long shot or a school she doesn't yet live close to, she could end up with a failing school miles away.

She could then put herself on the waiting list for the local school. The waiting list is in order of how far you meet the admission criteria, so if she lives very close could stand a good chance of a waiting list place.

Blu Wed 16-Jan-13 23:42:56

TodaysAGoodDay: the deadline was yesterday. She can't do anything now til offer day.

spongeypants Wed 16-Jan-13 23:47:43

I heard another local mum put in an appeal at the local school last year so it is popular but just not as popular or in as posh an area as the others. There is a local failing school with the signs I mentioned.
She is convinced that her DD will get a place, like it is automatic, even though she didn't like it that much, like a case of oh well, maybe the local school will do.
I think she will get a school with places after all the allocations are made, and it will be a school she will hate as it will be unpopular for a reason. DB has had no say it seems.
The booklet says be realistic.
I think there will be a shock come April.
Glad I wasn't away with the fairies (we have al this to come ourselves).

spongeypants Wed 16-Jan-13 23:50:07

thinking about it, it would be totally unfair to have a safety net of the local school but still try to get in all the other ones!!!

Oh dear, silly girl hmm

diamondee Thu 17-Jan-13 00:18:50

I'm so glad I live in Scotland, much simpler

Lollydaydream Thu 17-Jan-13 01:59:43

I have to say I really don't get why people don't grasp this aspect of the admissions system. Do you think the councils don't make it clear enough?

TidyDancer Thu 17-Jan-13 03:27:44

In my experience, your SIL could find herself in a bit of bother over this one. I don't think I'd ever be as optimistic as her about places, even if you think you live in an area where you can't fail to get into a good school, is it worth taking the risk?! I would say no.

Does she have the funds for private school if her plan doesn't work out? Sounds like it's either going to be that or the failing school.

TidyDancer Thu 17-Jan-13 03:29:29

Unless the two choices in the area she wants to move to are undersubscribed? Then I suppose she has a chance. I've never come across a future move being taken into account tbh, although I'll admit my knowledge in this area is not exhaustive! Others might be able to give you more information.

Booyhoo Thu 17-Jan-13 03:37:17

diamond how does it work in scotland?

littlewhitebag Thu 17-Jan-13 07:38:24

diamondee - was just thinking that myself!

CelineMcBean Thu 17-Jan-13 07:40:51

Actually y might bu. Where I live you only get to express a preference. It's really based on distance after all other priorities such as children in care, siblings, SN etc have been accounted for and your preference only makes any difference if you live close enough to more than one school to be eligible for a place.

Eg family A live 400m from school1 and 350m from school2 and 900m from school3. All three schools have places for all children living within 600m (let's say for argument's sake), so family A can have a place at either school1 or school2, so their preferences are used to choose based on how they ranked the two schools, so if school2 was ranked higher than school1 on their preferences they would get a place at school2. If no preference is made for an eligible school they are allocated the nearest of the two, school1. They do not get a place at school3 even if it is first preference because they are too far. If family A listed school4, school5 and school6 that were all 1km+ away on their preference they would still get offered a place at school1 because that is the nearest school with places.

So if your SIL is in London where the above is the admission procedure yabu. The bit about your brother not having a say is probably rubbish too unless hey are in some sort of abusive relationship. He's probably just left it up to her to decide and make the effort like my DP did when we had to apply.

If you really want to know if SIL is being unreasonable why not read the admissions process for where they live? The council publish it online.

pingu2209 Thu 17-Jan-13 08:15:17

Your SIL is being an idiot. I bet she will be the one who kicks up a massive fuss that she didn't get her local school when she is offered a sink school and then waste time and money fighting to get her in.

Blu Thu 17-Jan-13 08:26:27

CelinemcB, that's the system across England (different in Wales and Scotland), with the addition of any faith or other admissions criteria. Under that system she would still only get a place in her closest school if she has actually put it in her preference list, unless it is undersubscribed. Which in London of all places, is highly unlikely unless it is truly a failing sink school..

The issue is that she hasn't put her most likely / realistic school on her preference list at all..

CelineMcBean Thu 17-Jan-13 08:48:48

I'm fairly sure Blu, unless it has changed very recently, that there is no requirement to list any preferences at all where I live - London borough so presumably same for all of England? Otherwise preference would take priority over preference which it doesn't here. They don't even look at preferences until after they have looked at all the admission criteria which for most families applying for the first time is usually distance, with the exception of SN, being in care or any other criteria as I suggested above.

CelineMcBean Thu 17-Jan-13 08:55:33

Gosh I'm doubting myself now! grin

I'm not quite sure I can sift through all the admission guff to check. It was bad enough first time round!

CelineMcBean Thu 17-Jan-13 09:08:21

Ooh. I've just had a quick look at my council's most recent admission brochure and I am wrong! You do need to list all schools you wished to be considered for. All ours are oversubscribed so council encourages all applicants to list their nearest community school.

We're in the Midlands. Certainly here, you have to formally list the schools you want to be considered for. You don't get allocated a place at the nearest school unless you've put that on the form.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo Thu 17-Jan-13 09:23:01

Suggest to her that she puts it down as her last choice (assuming that it isn't a religious school or something where she won't meet the criteria). She's banking on the local school not being oversubscribed when it sounds like it probably is. The last choice should always be a school you are virtually guaranteed to get even if you're playing fantasy school places higher up the list. I hope that your SIL takes your advice.

Gomez Thu 17-Jan-13 09:31:18

In Scotland you have a catchment non-denominational and a catchment Catholic primary. You pop along to the school in January and register and 9 times out of 10 that's you.

There are some hot spots in Edinburgh where space is tight and transfers into catchment may not be accommodated; you can also make a placing request for a non-catchment school but not that common at primary level and again with exceptions of some urban hot spots would normally be met.

Secondary schools have feeder primaries and again 9 times from 10 you go to the high school associated with your catchment primary. Placing requests more popular for high performing schools at secondary level with but less success. I have never heard however of a secondary pupil not going to their catchment high if that is what they wanted.

There is no frenzy and angst like there appears to be in other areas of the UK either. Also no grammars or selection for entry.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep Thu 17-Jan-13 09:39:39

I'm in England - our primary applications definitely say 'IF YOU WANT TO BE CONSIDERED FOR YOUR CATCHMENT SCHOOL YOU MUST PUT IT ON THE LIST'.

In capitals.

Because apparently a lot of people think the same as your sister.

It would also depend on the birth rate in the area she lives in.

I know as parent governor in my children primary school this year there have only just enough school places for the children starting school. But that has meant children are traveling across the town for school. And this year coming it is looking like the council are going to have to put in bulge classes to cater for the places needed.

So if she doesn't get a place in any of her chosen school she may find she place at a school miles away. As they will just be given a place in the school that has a place free.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep Thu 17-Jan-13 09:46:47

How they allocate places:

1) Make a big list of everyone who has applied to each school.

2) School applies entrance criteria and selects the 30 (say) who will be offered places.

3) If you have been offered more than one place, council looks back at application form, sees which one was your highest preference and gives you that one.

4) This means a few places are freed up, so we go back to step 2), and the school selects the next nearest people to fill those places.

Your sister is not going to go on the list in step 1), so won't be offered a place at the school.
Disclaimer: Unless your borough has some really weird application system.

tiggytape Thu 17-Jan-13 09:52:00

How does it work, do councils allocate kids to the local school regardless sof choice, like she says?

1. It works by you listing your choices and the council having a look to see if you meet the criteria for any of them (i.e. do you live close enough)

2. If by some miracle you meet the criteria for 2 or 3, they allocate you the one that you put nearest the top of your list.

3. If you meet the criteria for only 1 that you listed, you get allocated that one regardless of whether it was your 1st, 2nd or last choice

4. If you meet the criteria for none that you've listed the council waits. It deals with everyone else's application. Then it looks again at yours, looks at where there are any spare school places left and gives you one of the leftover places as close to home as possible (which could be miles away and is probably going to be a poor school if it has spare places)

If the school your sister wishes to avoid is near her house and unpopular then it is highly likely this is the one she will be sent to. It doesn't matter that she didn't list it. If she qualifies for none of the ones she listed, the council's job is to find her the nearest school to her home with a spare space in April i.e. an unpopular school nobody else listed. This is why it is so important to put a realistic choice on the form.

If she had listed a school on her form that she qualified for but also listed the school she hates right at the bottom, the council would not send her to the rubbish school just to make up numbers. They always allocate the highest school that you qualify for regardless of whether you've named a crap school as a back-up or not.

tiggytape Thu 17-Jan-13 09:53:35

...also the admission procedure is now national. In England, all areas have to do it by the book and follow the same rules (eg equal preference system, set offers day, rules on waiting lists etc)
There are nolonger any local differences that enable you to get to certain schools like there used to be.

tiggytape Thu 17-Jan-13 09:55:36

...and if you don't list it, you won't get it!
Not unless it is so awful that nobody else lists it and it is one of the school with leftover places that mops up the people who didn't qualify for any of their choices.

ResolutelyCheeky Thu 17-Jan-13 09:56:34

To be fair to your SIL I did this and we got the school in the area that we eventually moved to which was supposed to be the hardest school to get in to. I hand wrote my application with a letter attached giving the reasons for my choice. I know of a few others that did this same thing and we all got in.
The reason was all of our children had been at nursery together in this village although we all lived outside the area we all had intentions of moving in.
We were lucky. Maybe it was a low birth year? We were telling the truth on our application (some have rented just to get an address) and took the time to hand write an application. I don't know if that helped.

spongeypants Thu 17-Jan-13 09:59:12

Not London,large town in midlands. Criteria is six places, in order of preference. If you got offered all of your choices, then the one you actually get is your top preference. But you have to be realistic it says and look at where places have been offered in the past. The school bases its offers on basis of looked after children, siblings and distance in that order. So after the first two, it is about distance, but only if you have actually put it on the list!
No idea about faith schools or what happens with them but she is not religious so not an issue
Yes Blu, that is the issue. She hasn't put it but expects to get it.
And Celine, what the do you about the relationship?? Its not so cut and dried. Some men don't get that involved, he works away a lot. I'm just a bit frustrated as he says she knows what she is doing and that its all OK and no, she doesn't seem to get it at all.

jeee Thu 17-Jan-13 10:01:10

As the deadline has passed, I wouldn't even waste my time worrying about your SIL's decisions. I know it's your niece or nephew's education here, but your SIL will find out soon enough whether her child is going to (a) a school she put on the list, (b) the local school, or (c) a sink school 12 miles away.

And if your niece/nephew gets option (c), please don't say, or even obviously think, 'I told you so'. That won't help family relationships.

tiggytape Thu 17-Jan-13 10:01:21

Resolutely - you were lucky.
I assure you 100% that the letter you wrote had no influence on you getting a place. None at all.

Admissions are goverened by law. There is no nice lady at the council handing out places to people who beg or write good reasons or take the trouble to explain their choices. They only give out places in strict accordance with the admission criteria.
So if you live miles away and it is a low birth rate year, you can get a place. But if it is a popular school miles away with 100 applicants who qualify more than you do, no amount of letter writing will ever get you in.

Years ago, things were a bit more fluid and varied by area. Now it is all very strictly regulated, schools and councils have zero discretion over admissions. All that matters is how well you meet the criteria for the schools you've listed.

RubyGates Thu 17-Jan-13 10:01:54

I've done pretty much what SIL has done, but only because the local schools are actually "plan d"

Plan a) will have moved to far-away town before school year starts.
b) Homeschool
c) local Christian Academy with fees of £250 a month in interim.

Without safety-net your SIL is nuts.

Astley Thu 17-Jan-13 10:07:49

Heheh I did just have a little chortle at the idea that if you write a nice letter, maybe even with a fountain pen, those nice people at the allocation office will give you a place grin

ResolutelyCheeky Thu 17-Jan-13 10:07:52

I think you are probably right tiggy, fortunately we had back-up plans though as our local schools would have not been suitable for a number of reasons.
Trying to get a place at our chosen school is really hard and we feel really lucky.

meditrina Thu 17-Jan-13 10:08:25

The letter will definitely not/not have made a difference. If a place is offered other than in accordance with published criteria, then the family of the child/ren who should have been offered a place had the published criteria been properly applied will win an appeal (even under ICS) and the school will have to admit, and after the first excepted year, will have to employ an additional teacher. Neither school nor LEA can afford to break the law on this.

tiggytape Thu 17-Jan-13 10:24:46

meditrina is right. The pressure on school places is huge. No council will break the rules to admit a child because it would open the flood gate at appeals (which even under ICS rules would be won if the council had cheated another child out of their place). However the rule on employing an extra teacher is now gone. They now just have to cope with classes that are too large until a child leaves who they then woudn't replace.

Resolutely - I am glad you got your place though. It is a huge stress for a lot of parents.

BillyBollyBrandy Thu 17-Jan-13 10:31:09

The only way your DSIL will get a place at the local school is if it is undersubscribed and her closest.

ResolutelyCheeky Thu 17-Jan-13 10:37:58

Thank you tiggy so are we.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo Thu 17-Jan-13 10:42:39

A few people have mentioned the deadline has passed but I imagine the LEA might allow her to change the last choice today as it's so close to the deadline and there is some latitude for applications up to the end of the month. I'd have another chat with her and tell her what everyone on this thread is saying.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Thu 17-Jan-13 10:47:35

When i was picking schools, i got 3 choices, I wanted DD to go to the school in the next village, then i put the closest school to us, then the school, in another village, I picked 3 schools i knew she had a shot at getting in.

With only 2 she had a chance her getting her DC into, SIL is setting herself and DC up for a fall.

Blu Thu 17-Jan-13 11:39:46

there is some latitude for applications up to the end of the month.

is there? Do you know that for definite?

spongeypants Thu 17-Jan-13 11:48:36

There are no schools she has a chance of getting into, that is the point! Two are too far away, the other four they are either outside the catchment, which shrinks year by year. There is no real local school on the list, but three she could have listed. All schools here are over subscribed and there is real danger of getting nothing.
I have done my bit, I have spoken to her and BIL and explain it but to no avail. It might all work out?
I certainly won't say a thing come April.
Thanks everybody, really thought I'd misinterpreted the guidance. Don't feel any better for it, just more worried on their behalf now.

It's certainly risky but I can think of one person who did similar and after one term with child placed at a dodgy school a LONG way away that wasn't on her list got her first choice which was the lovely lovely school that wasn't the nearest and had a tiny intake.

You need balls of steel to play those games. I felt like applauding her when she got the place she wanted.

Hope your sister in law is lucky.

JenaiMorris Thu 17-Jan-13 11:54:59

It amazes me that people think this strategy will work. The guidance is very, very clear (or at least it is where I live).

Even so every year a bunch of parents and 4yos with sad faces appear in the local paper because they've been allocated the nearest school with places - which happens to be 8 miles away and involves a trip accross a very congested city centre. If they'd applied to their actual nearest school they would have been fine.

What makes it even more dumb is that none of the schools are bad - they're all fine.

Dozy arses.

JenaiMorris Thu 17-Jan-13 11:57:32

Would your friend have received priority on the waiting list for Lovely School because she'd applied for it in the first round?

I don't think she would have done - or should have tbh.

Which isn't to say that she was wrong to put her child on the waiting list of the school she preferred btw.

jojane Thu 17-Jan-13 12:12:59

The way it was explained to me here in Wales was they look at everyone's first choice of school and allocate places based on the criteria, such as siblings and distance etc, they then look at the second choices of people who didn't get a first choice place and allocate according to criteria and then again for the third choice. People jo didn't get any of third choices are then allocated there nearest school with places which is basically the school no one else wants. My friend put down the best scho in our area and no other choices not even her catchment school (which is also very good) as her son has special physical needs and it was implied she would defenately get her first choice, unfortunately a report got lost and she got given a place at the worst school, not her catchment school. Luckily someone didn't take a place and she managed on appeal to get in to first choice school.

I was a parent governor as DS's school for a while.

The hassle we had once places had been allocated was enormous. The head ended up with some frantic parents clamouring for some way for their child to be admitted. But, it was tough luck, we didn't have any more places.

There are many parents out there who seem to think that allocation to nearest school is automatic and that it doesn't matter if you don't put them down on the forms. Despite the constant information that yes, you do not to put that school on the form........

Need to put that school, not "not to put school" Oh well, should have previewed first..,

3littlewomen Thu 17-Jan-13 12:22:57

in rural Ireland we have a very simple system as the vast majority of school are not oversubscribed.... my littlest just enrolled in national school for next year by handing in her form and informing the headteacher she will be there in September! Job done.

It is so sad to hear just how stressful this all is in the UK

tiggytape Thu 17-Jan-13 12:31:58

Wales is different. In England you never get priority because a school is your first choice:

- If Fred lives 100m from School A but doesn't fancy it much so puts it as his last choice (all his higher choices are stupidly unrealistic but he really wants one of them and only lists School A as a back-up)....
- And if Jo lives 250m from School A and puts it as her first choice as she really loves it and is desperate for a place there...
- And if the lst distance the school can offer to is 157m then Fred gets a place but not Jo. Jo will get sent to her 2nd choice (if she qualifies for it) or her last choice (if she qualifies for it) or to a council allocated school if she qualified for none that she listed.

The fact that Jo would walk over hot coals to get into School A whereas Fred is gutted that he's been allocated it means nothing. All that matters is meeting the admission criteria.

Yes tiggy even more frustrating when Jo is allocated the school which Fred wants, so neither parent is happy, and they can't swop because then if they give up either place it might go to another child! Has happened here, not to me but others.

Not saying that there is a solution to that problem, but so frustrating if you are caught up in it.

spongey hope your neice gets a place, and remember, children do move/ go private, so if the results aren't favourable suggest they get themselves on every available waiting list, and keep checking they are still on the list.

In my dd's school there was a place for half a term, but the school/LEA kept denying it, even though the parent who wanted the place had another child in the school and knew the space was there, the whole class, even the children knew there was a space.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo Thu 17-Jan-13 13:56:14

Blu There some latitude in our LEA not sure if this applies elsewhere.

This is from the Kent Primary School Admissions booklet for this year:

What if I miss the closing date for applications?

Whilst the closing date for Kent County Council to receive applications is Wednesday 16 January 2013, late applications will be accepted and considered to be “on time” if they are late for a good reason and it is reasonably practicable to accept them. It will not be possible to submit these applications online, parents will need to complete a paper RCAF/JCAF. These late applications must be received no later than 5pm on Monday 28 January 2013.

Obviously it does say for a good reason but they may well accept a last minute change of heart to put down the local school as last choice as it will potentially save a lot less hassle later. The reason could be "I misunderstood rules but my nice SIL has explained them and I've changed my mind". Might be good enough

tiggytape Thu 17-Jan-13 14:29:40

3Birthday - yes there was a lady on here a couple of years ago who had been allocated a school she didn't want. She then found out that her and her friend had been allocated each other's first choice schools. Neither of them qualified for their own first choice school but both qualified for each others! They aren't allowed to swap though. If that was allowed it would open up the possibility of trading school places for cash or people being coerced into swapping and that would be even worse.

I agree with Ghoul that there is no harm in asking the council about any last minute changes but if your SIL does, she must make it 100% clear (in writing) that this is just an alteration to the existing application not a whole new application. If the council get muddled up and treat it as a new application, it will be treated as a late one and then she will get dealt with last i.e. no hope at a school she wants.
If they allow her an alteration for good reason then this could resolve the issue although I suspect you'll have a hard time convincing her that she is wrong about automatically getting the local school despite not listing it.

PurpleStorm Fri 18-Jan-13 20:56:11

OUr local council make it pretty clear that changing your mind about which schools you want on your list isn't considered an acceptable reason for missing the submission deadline. Examples of reasons they consider acceptable for missing the deadline include being a single parent who's been too ill to fill in forms, and having just moved into the area.

They treat changes of preference received after the closing date as late applications - so if OP's SIL lived here, and decided now that she wanted the local school on her application form, she'd still be in line for the local school behind everyone who submitted forms on time, regardless of whether or not she lives closer to the local school than them.

But OP's local council may be more flexible than ours. Hope things work out for the OP's niece.

spongeypants Thu 18-Apr-13 14:04:17

Posting this update in case it helps anybody who will be doing this next year and this must be a classic case of how not to go through the process.

DN got the local 'failing' school, obviously not one of their choices. I feel really sad for them. Instead of feeling excited, they are looking at appeals, waiting lists or moving house.

Please, anybody out there looking at schools for next year, read the guidance, it is there for a reason, be realistic.

formicaqueen Thu 18-Apr-13 14:39:56

I think she has done the right thing. We didn't put our local school down but instead listed other schools in order of preference. All schools were very very popular but we still got into our second choice - you never know your luck. If we hadn't got in, we would have appealed and if that failed, we would have joined waiting lists for vacancies that arise as pupils leave.

thegreylady Thu 18-Apr-13 14:45:23

Thanks for updating-I wondered what had happened.
Which general area is your sil in where she didn't get any of six options?

Floggingmolly Thu 18-Apr-13 14:47:57

Did you understand the op's latest post, formica? confused

StanleyLambchop Thu 18-Apr-13 15:11:27

On what grounds is she appealing though? You cannot just appeal because the decision does not suit you. If the Local Authority have applied the selection procedure correctly then I cannot see she has a chance. It is a shame for her DD but what else are the LA supposed to do? They cannot mind-read that she actually wanted the local school as fallback position.

MummyOfSunbeam Thu 18-Apr-13 15:17:43

Diamondee and littlewhitebag - how does it wor here in Scotland? I am new to it and have a dd facing primary school in a couple years - we have two primaries in our catchment area, one RC and one nondenominational. I assume we all have to go to one of these? I guess Applying for a non-catchment one doesn't work here?

MorrisZapp Thu 18-Apr-13 15:21:00

In Scotland, you can put in an out of catchment request, but you have no guarantee of getting it.

Mostly, kids just go to their local primary.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Thu 18-Apr-13 15:21:06

In Scotland you can apply for out of catchment, and you will be considered last in the order of priority.

You are guaranteed a place at your local school.

Read your local councils website do more info.

mummy you can make an out of catchment request in Scotland, but I think you will still have your catchment school as a fall back. Most people go to their catchment school although I think you get more placement requests in the bigger cities.

MummyOfSunbeam Thu 18-Apr-13 16:53:08

Thanks all - the Scottish system thankfully seems more straightforward. Sympathies for OP's niece and SIL sad

HollyBerryBush Thu 18-Apr-13 17:09:10

As far as I'm aware, if you don't put it down you don't get it.

If you put down 6 premier schools that you haven't got a hope in hell of getting into - you will be allocated the arse end school no one wants and is under subscribed.

Floggingmolly Thu 18-Apr-13 17:09:48

She's looking at appeals, waiting lists, or moving house
You can't appeal the non allocation of a school which hasn't been requested; there are no grounds whatsoever.
Moving house won't guarantee her a place either; unless the new local school is undersubscribed.
The waiting lists are her only hope, but no guarantees there either.
Why would you make a decision like this without clueing yourself in? confused

PurpleStorm Thu 18-Apr-13 20:44:10

Thanks for the update OP, I was wondering what had happened too!

It's a shame that your DN didn't get into any of the schools that your SIL put down, but given what you said about the situation, I'm not surprised.

I also can't see appeals getting them very far, regardless of whether she's appealing not getting into one of the 6 over-subscribed schools or appealing not getting a place at the okay local school she didn't bother putting as a preference on the form.

spongeypants Sat 20-Apr-13 09:37:33

I won't say where exactly, (worried will out self) just midlands. I've not been through process yet so not sure how many choices there were, seemed to be a few, maybe as many as six.

Point is, none of the choices were local, they were all schools outside catchment, two quite far away and she recently mentioned another she had put down that is so far away that it might as well be in the next county for all the chance she had.

She has been advised little point in appealing, probably because there will be so many children in catchment who may have not got that choice.

This school is the exact opposite of what they did not want, in deprived end of town, very multi-cultural.

Summed up in a nutshell hollyberrybush !!

Poor DN - she's got to deal with the outcome of all this.

I said to SIL that surely the school will get a new head etc and be turned around soon (that seems to happen these days) and become very sought after? Not much else I can say really.

Poor DN, but ultimately it was a bad, unrealistic decision....which your niece will suffer for.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Sat 20-Apr-13 10:38:13

Why are parents such idiots about school applications? What is it about a certain kind of (usually middle class) person that thinks that normal rules don't apply to them?

I say that as a middle class person grin

OP - really sad for your DN sad

Fudgemallowdelight Sat 20-Apr-13 10:46:52

Do you think she will still send the little girl there rather than home school or something? You never know, the little girl might be happy and do well there. There is a school near here that no one wants, but it now has a very good head and people I know who were allocated it who hadn't wanted it are actually very happy with it and wouldn't change even if they had the option.

Her best hope is moving house to the catchment she wants to be in and then going on the waiting list. She will move up the waiting list by being in catchment but won't guarantee a place. It worked for us ( we had to apply whilst living in another part of the country so not the same reasons as the OP) but it was a bit of a worry for a while and we could have ended up with something we didn't want in the process. However, we had just moved by this point in the year so she is leaving herself precious little time to get sorted. at this rate the poor child will have to start the unwanted school then move school when a vacancy arises by which time the child may well be perfectly happy in her allocated school and not want to start again.

What the OP's SIL did is indeed very risky and a master class in how not to fill in the forms.

Loulybelle Sat 20-Apr-13 11:06:02

Silly, theres 3 local schools in my area, i put all 3 down, and got my first choice. If you dont put your choices down then you dont get.

Guitargirl Sat 20-Apr-13 11:12:22

This has happened to a few families living near us this year. Despite all the information from previous years being available on the furthest distance being 0.2 miles typically for most of our local schools, they were applying for schools 0.5 - 0.7 miles away and (don't ask me why) but were then so surprised when they were not offered a place at any of them!

Two of our neighbours now don't have offers of any places but have been sent a list of those schools in the borough which have places which are also of course the schools that have problems. They will probably be ok on a waiting list by September but honestly what do people think - that the catchment for the last 3 years has been 0.2 miles but that somehow half the 4 year olds in the borough this year are going to disappear or something? One mum even said to me that she can't understand why she was not offered our nearest school. I asked her if it was one of her choices. No. Why do people not understand!!!!

MoaningYoniWhingesAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 11:23:52

My sister has just done the same. Applied to three oversubscribed fab schools, been offered the local school she didn't want.

Actually she was lucky, she could have been given a far away school she didn't want instead. She reckons she will appeal, but has no grounds grin. I shouldn't laugh but she has been quite stupid.

Loulybelle Sat 20-Apr-13 11:26:36

Parents dont seem to understand, that the choice allocations will take place first, any child who doesnt get an allocation will have to wait to get into the nearest school available.

Why do parents think that living near a local school automatically gets them allocation.

Loulybelle Sat 20-Apr-13 11:31:32

Moaning, it'll be pointless because she didnt pick a decent local school, she should have been realistic in her choices.

When i did my 3 picks

1) School where my DD went to nursery, never normally full due to its location.
2) Most local school to me, but in a busy village, but likely to get in.
3) Further away, but not far and my school, also likely to get into.

EmmelineGoulden Sat 20-Apr-13 19:20:44

Spongeypants your SIL should get her name on to the local school's waiting list ASAP. There will most likely be a lot of movement before September. In our district, and I think this is supposed to apply to all schools in England, the waiting list allocates places by the same criteria as the allocation process. So your SIL will most likely go ahead of people who live further away (unless they have additional qualifications like siblings etc.). So if she lives reasonably close and would likely have got in if she'd put them as one of her 6 choices, she will probably get a place there before school starts.

dayshiftdoris Sat 20-Apr-13 19:54:34

There are atleast 29 other children going to that school... dont see any sympathies for them

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