Note: Please bear in mind that whilst this topic does canvass opinions, it is not a fight club. You may disagree with other posters but we do ask you please to stick to our Talk Guidelines and to be civil. We don't allow personal attacks or troll-hunting. Do please report any. Thanks, MNHQ.

Help - found bank letter re challenging over 1k spend in gentlemans club

(277 Posts)
Letstryagain Wed 16-Jan-13 20:43:04

Looked in h pocket when moving jackets and found a bank letter re his challenge over 1k spend in 'gentlemans' club - looked at dates and it was a weekend I was away, he was out but never mentioned going there. I have no issues with these places but wonder why he didn't say he was there & also how could anyone spend over 1,000 at a place like that? What do I do - say I saw it? Am raging? He had told me he was disputing a spend in debenhams!! Help!!!

Maybe someone has cloned/stolen his bank details and run uo the debt. Or maybe he has been there and they've diddled him - those places are notorious for fleecing money from unsuspecting punters, thinking they are less likely to complain because they don't want anyone to know they were there.
Why are you raging? Because he went to a what? strip club? lap dance club? brothel? what is this place exactly, and what do you think he did there?
Does him just being there enrage you? or that he didn't tell you, or if he had a lap dance, saw a stripper, had sex with someone he paid for it?
Don't you trust him?
Why not just ask him right out what he was doing there. OR, if you really think it could end your marriage if he has done XYZ, then take a few days and give it some serious thought. Do you actually want to know what, if anything, he did? Is it worth your marriage? Will you believe what he says if he denies it all? Do you trust him?

polkadotsrock Wed 16-Jan-13 20:54:04

Well if he's disputing it then he didn't do it so the rage may be premature. Just ask him, it was in his pocket, you hardly had to go hunting to find it so no worries about being accused of snooping

If he's disputing it and he didn't do it then why did he lie to you and tell you or was a Debenhams spend?

HecateWhoopass Wed 16-Jan-13 21:01:02

If it was fraud, then he would have said to you bloody HELL! Someone's cloned my card or something and spent money in a bloody lap dancing club

(I am assuming that's what a 'gentlemans club' actually is?)

The fact he's challenging only the amount spent suggests to me that he's disputing the number of private dances he got or something.

Letstryagain Wed 16-Jan-13 21:03:39

Thanks for your replies - I suppose I am assuming he went there (it's local to us, a weekend I was away with children & he was out). My issue is not that he went there - it's that he didn't tell me (he has been to strip clubs before and I have no problem with it) and the amount in question is making me a little concerned. My rage is to do with the fact that I never thought he would lie to me & to make up a big story about an issue with his card and debenhams (buying my present apparently!) just makes me want to slap him! Do I haut say I found this in your pocket & ask him why / what etc. he knows I am big on honesty about everything so I can't understand this
I know these placed rip off customers, especially where drink is involved but the amount worries me, what would you get for that!

DonderandBlitzen Wed 16-Jan-13 21:05:49

Did it have the name of the gentleman's club on the letter? You could google it and find out what sort of place it is. It might just be somewhere he went with his mates after a pub, not really knowing what it was and he might have had a drink only but someone cloned his card. Surely if he had really been shagging around or something he would have kept it quiet not challenged the cost and made a big thing of it?

Letstryagain Wed 16-Jan-13 21:06:25

And yes - just read Hecate thread - if it was ffraud then he would have made a joke about it. Not double lied?

determinedma Wed 16-Jan-13 21:08:47

Why were you going through his pockets?

HecateWhoopass Wed 16-Jan-13 21:09:59

oh yes. If someone spent money in a club and it was nothing to do with me - I'd be shouting it from the rooftops!

He lied to you because he WAS there. He DID partake of whatever it is they offer there.

He just does not believe he had a grand's worth...

Letstryagain Wed 16-Jan-13 21:10:05

Donder - I googled it & it's not far from us - offering 'entertainment' for high class clientele, whatever that means. We actually walked past it about a year ago & laughed about whether we should pop in!

ArtsMumma Wed 16-Jan-13 21:10:52

Ask him, you haven't been snooping around, you just found the letter. So say, hey I found this, what's it all about. You're sure to know him well enough to be able to tell if he's avoiding an issue or lying. If you think he is then question more. Stay calm and don't let him see you are angry until he has explained himself.

Does he know your views? Just wonder why he lied

determinedma Wed 16-Jan-13 21:12:51

Going through someone's pockets is snooping in my book

Letstryagain Wed 16-Jan-13 21:19:16

Yes - determined - I shouldn't have looked in his pockets. I pulled out jackets to sort dry cleaning and it was there and I read it! I know I shouldn't have but I am glad that I did - now I am asking about what to do

Sallyingforth Wed 16-Jan-13 21:21:02

It's a lap dancing club. They charge extra fees for every additional service. Drinks are an extortionate price. They will rack up the bill at every opportunity and can probably justify the charge even if it sounds unreasonable to you.

He will have to pay, and you will have to decide whether or not to forgive him for being so stupid.

Sallyingforth Wed 16-Jan-13 21:22:09

It's a lap dancing club. They charge extra fees for every additional service. Drinks are an extortionate price. They will rack up the bill at every opportunity and can probably justify the charge even if it sounds unreasonable to you.

He will have to pay, and you will have to decide whether or not to forgive him for being so stupid.

thegreylady Wed 16-Jan-13 21:24:01

Just ask him-you went through the pockets for a valid reason [dry cleaning].

As Hecate said - he doesn't believe he got a grands worth. He thought he'd only spend five hundred quid of your family money to see some woman's fanny and is shocked it's double the price. That poor fella.

CheCazzo Wed 16-Jan-13 21:28:02

Well you yourself said you're big on honesty - so you're going to have to be honest with him about this aren't you?

suburbophobe Wed 16-Jan-13 21:33:57

Going through someone's pockets is snooping in my book

Not at all, I go through all of DS's pockets before throwing stuff in the washing machine - just as well as there have been lighters and all kinds of crap in there.....

I would be more pissed off at £1000 being chucked away in an evening, whatever his excuse.

Letstryagain Wed 16-Jan-13 21:36:41

I know - I'm just worried that he will immediately jump on a ''why did you look in my pockets' answer

Bloody hell - he will think/argue spending a grand on strippers and them lying massively about it, and accidentally reading a bank letter are equivalent? wow.

Lap dances are only about £30. He's done more than had a lap dance if he's spent anywhere near a grand.

Branleuse Wed 16-Jan-13 21:40:09

Tell him hes been rumbled, and what does he think hes doing blowing a grand on strippers ffs

Letstryagain Wed 16-Jan-13 21:49:29

Yes - I will ask him tomorrow (he is out tonight). Should I worry about what he got for over a grand?

Branleuse Wed 16-Jan-13 21:52:35

you shouldnt worry about anything. It wont change anything.

Wait and see what he says

determinedma "Going through someone's pockets is snooping in my book"

I don't consider it snooping either - I have asked DH to empty his pockets for laundry/drycleaning for YEARS, yet still he forgets.

He left a pen in a pocket - which melted in the dryer and ruined an entire load of laundry. We've had coins, nuts, screws etc in the washer filter, £20 notes washed, his Army ID card snapped in the washer... the list goes on.

So now I go through his pockets - on the understanding that any money I find is payment for having to go through them. It's actually a nice little earner!

I don't go through his pockets to snoop - I go through them to save our clothing and appliances. End of story. If he could manage to empty them before putting his clothes in the laundry then I would happily relinquish this task.

Only you can decide where your limits are. You said before you don't mind him having a lap dance. I couldn't be with my DP if I knew he paid women to shove their fannies in his face.

larks35 Wed 16-Jan-13 22:12:35

I have to admit that it sounds like he got fleeced but he maybe asked for some "services" that enabled the fleecing.

I would be beyond raging at the loss of a grand. I'd also want to know what the fuck my DP was thinking in even entering a let's rip off blokes "gentleman's" club.

I'm intrigued to find out what the £1000 got him, did he pay for his mates to drink and each have a lap dance? Or was he on his own and somehow bought other people drinks. You have to ask him OP.

A friend of mine went to a lap-dancing club on a mate's stag do, this was back in the 1990s and drinks alone cost £12. He felt fleeced when he left sober but £50 worse off.

wannabedreams Wed 16-Jan-13 22:17:41

I would definitely challenge him, you are more than entitled to empty his pockets as you sort his dry cleaning, anyone would have read it. I have to open all my H post as he just wouldn't and it might be important? He is happy with this btw.

My first reaction is he went there for drinks, they put through way more on his card than they should and because he hasn't told you he was there the lies just got worse..... Like a comedy of errors.

MarilynValentine Wed 16-Jan-13 22:43:38

Ugh. What a slime. Paying women for sexual favours of one kind or another whilst probably too pissed to remember how much he was spending.

Then lying to you.

Sex, beauty and desire - wonderful aspects of all of our lives. But the moment money is involved it becomes about power, control, manipulation, exploitation. Seeing other people as objects to be bought and paid for.

He feels entitled to spend money on the fact that he'd love to fuck other women.

Still, you're okay with all that, right?

Backtobedlam Wed 16-Jan-13 23:34:30

You weren't snooping, I always empty all our pockets before washing/hanging stuff up as had far too many cards lost or ruined by not doing. If I was you though I'd gather as much information as possible before asking/confronting him.

TinyDancingHoofer Thu 17-Jan-13 02:06:35

The £1000 was probably a bottle of champagne rather than sex. That's where those clubs make their money, the booze not the girls.

Darkesteyes Thu 17-Jan-13 02:17:17

HecateWhoopassWed 16-Jan-13 21:09:59

oh yes. If someone spent money in a club and it was nothing to do with me - I'd be shouting it from the rooftops!

He lied to you because he WAS there. He DID partake of whatever it is they offer there.

He just does not believe he had a grand's worth...

THIS. I used to work in a sex chatline office taking the bookings for calls at reception and also doing calls.
After a call had been completed and they had "ahem" shot their load some of them would then go to their bank and deny using their credit cards to book the call in the first place and my boss would end up with a chargeback. Some of the fuckers expected to get a call for free and try to get away with it by charging it back.
A similar principle to what Hecate has pointed out.

But presumably he knows his wife doesn't mind him paying for sexual services, so why would he lie? Is it any different to most men nipping out for a drink?

I guess he lies because
a. He likes lying to his wife.
b. He doesn't think his wife would be thrilled at this particular sexual service.
Good luck OP. You have every right to rant/be angry at this.

Letstryagain Thu 17-Jan-13 13:31:24

Spoke to him this morning - it gets better! He admitted that he went there with a mate, when they went to leave they were intimidated back to sign a bill of £1,800!! He says he feels embarrassed so lied about it.
At work now so I still have to find out what the nearly 2k apparently covered - I feel sick even thinking about it

Backtobedlam Thu 17-Jan-13 13:38:38

Poor you sat at home worrying, at least he didn't try to deny it though, which is a good sign. Hope he feels like a total idiot.

Oh dear. Do you have joint finances - if so, it must feel doubly rotten that you are at work funding his extra-curricular sex-life. I would be raging.
I don't really know what to say - you have been happy with him going to lapdancers in the past it seems, I guess, you could put a limit on his expenditure? Or suggest he doesn't go again?
He must have a lot going for him in other ways because he sounds like a complete tosser - and thick too.

Probably just expensive drinks, champagne etc. The women who work there are encouraged to get punters to buy expensive drinks*. It's normally cash only for private dances so I don't think it's payments for services rendered. The women who work at the clubs are self-employed, they don't get paid by the clubs, they have to pay around £100 - £200 a night for the "privilege" of working in the clubs. That's why the women only accept cash.

Strangely enough, visiting women don't get charged as much as men. Last time I went a bottle of house white was £20, so whilst expensive, not extortionate.

Greythorne Thu 17-Jan-13 13:47:20

I should think the 2000 bill covered young women taking off their clothes for your DH and his friend, possibly rubbing their sex organs over their clothes and simulating foreplay before sexual congress.

Greythorne Thu 17-Jan-13 13:49:18

His disputing it is very naive really.

If he just wanted to go to a boozer and have a few pints with a friend, then he will pay 20 or 30 quid for the pleasure.

If he wants semi naked women and naked women to bring drinks, dance provocatively in front of his face and run themselves over his clothes, it costs rather more.

sweetestB Thu 17-Jan-13 13:49:24

Get checked for STD.

Greythorne Thu 17-Jan-13 13:51:59

And the power differential in your relationship is staggering.

he gets to go to strip joints secretly and spend hundreds and possibly thousands of pounds and you are ok with that.

You are worried about the "crime" of going through his pockets to ensure nothing valuable went to the dry cleaners by mistake and you are worried that he will accuse you of snooping.

<mind boggles>

allgoingtoshitnow Thu 17-Jan-13 13:52:42

"Spoke to him this morning - it gets better! He admitted that he went there with a mate, when they went to leave they were intimidated back to sign a bill of £1,800!! He says he feels embarrassed so lied about it."

So there is your answer. And yes it happens all the time because the clubs know the men will try and hush it up, so they get away with it.

Except in this case your DH is fighting to get family money back that was effectively stolen.

Suggest you go and apologise for snooping OP.

Greythorne Thu 17-Jan-13 13:54:18

allgoingtoshitnow

Er, what?

Nancy66 Thu 17-Jan-13 13:55:09

as others have said - the drinks at these places cost a fortune.

The clubs are worked by 'hostess girls' who get commission for every bottle of champagne they persuade a visitor to buy. A bog standard bottle of supermarket bubbly (probably presecco) will cost about £200.

The girl may say 'would you like me to join you at your table?' what she won't say is that it will lead to another £200 being added to the bill.

Hostess bars are notorious rip off joints

Letstryagain Thu 17-Jan-13 13:58:13

I know - this may sound weird but I have no issues with lap dancing clubs ....... However how can you spend that much on dances and booze .., I feel sick thinking about it

Greythorne Thu 17-Jan-13 13:59:28

You have no problem with map dancing clubs

But your husband has a problem with you:
a. knowing he goes there
b. how much he spends there
c. you going through his pockets?

Greythorne Thu 17-Jan-13 14:01:18

Maybe just take allgoingtoshitnow's advice and apologize for snooping. I think you might be missing the bigger picture.

If you are afraid of his anger that you were snooping, just apologise. Obviously.

Letstryagain Thu 17-Jan-13 14:03:36

Greythorne - what bigger picture am I missing?

allgoingtoshitnow Thu 17-Jan-13 14:03:41

What part are you struggling with grey?

The bit where OP said her husband was intimidated into paying a bill he didn't run up, or the bit where she says she doesn't care that he visited the club?

Hes not a cheating DH being exploited by dancers after all. Just a DH going to a club with his mate (with OPs permission) and getting robbed.

HighBrows Thu 17-Jan-13 14:05:51

Letstrysgain, there's a whole other bigger picture you're missing such as you dh paying to objectify women.

I could not be with a man like that, he's spent 1k in a lap dancing club and yet will be pissed off at you for checking his pockets.

[hmmm]

Miggsie Thu 17-Jan-13 14:07:59

My friend's daughter was a waitress in one of these clubs - they are given courses on how to fleece the customers with the most expensive drinks - she got one bloke to pay £1000 for a bottle.

They act on the assumption that most men are too arrogant to admit they didn't want to pay that much (or can't really afford it) and don't want to admit they were diddled, so pay up. and they do.

bellamafia Thu 17-Jan-13 14:10:21

Oh ffs! No it's NOT an effing issue of snooping! So bloody what of you did have a look in his jacket pockets. It's human bloody nature as I'm SURE he would do the same given the chance.

It's his lie about what he was claiming for ie, a Debenhams query. He should have just come out with the truth and even knowing that you are ok with these type of clubs ( you must be a strong woman), why did he feel the need to lie? Cos he didn't want you to know he went to one? No! Cos he spent a fortune on booze? No! Cos he spent a lot of money having private dances (and we all know what goes on in those!!). Yes!

I'm sorry to be so blunt but I'd start to think about telling him he is grounded from those places until you can fully forgive him.

Utter fukin child and a twat.

bellamafia Thu 17-Jan-13 14:10:42

Oh ffs! No it's NOT an effing issue of snooping! So bloody what of you did have a look in his jacket pockets. It's human bloody nature as I'm SURE he would do the same given the chance.

It's his lie about what he was claiming for ie, a Debenhams query. He should have just come out with the truth and even knowing that you are ok with these type of clubs ( you must be a strong woman), why did he feel the need to lie? Cos he didn't want you to know he went to one? No! Cos he spent a fortune on booze? No! Cos he spent a lot of money having private dances (and we all know what goes on in those!!). Yes!

I'm sorry to be so blunt but I'd start to think about telling him he is grounded from those places until you can fully forgive him.

Utter fukin child and a twat.

allgoingtoshitnow Thu 17-Jan-13 14:15:57

Of course its snooping. And anyone who pulls that kind of stunt is a snooper. Its as bad as reading someones mail or checking their facebook without permission.

However, I'd snoop if I suspected cheating. Did you suspect that OP?

In this case though OP - hes done no wrong so grounding him like a child is controlling and childish.

HighBrows Thu 17-Jan-13 14:19:04

It's not snooping going through pockets before laundry.

And even if it is snooping his crimes are way worse. He went to a club to objectify women. He has lied and he has spent 1k. He sounds like a real keeper, not.

Nancy66 Thu 17-Jan-13 14:19:20

OP if you're so cool about him going to strip club/ hostess bars then why would he wait until you're away to do it? And then not tell you?

That's what I'm trying to understand Nancy. If the ops so cool about it, why did he cover it up?
And thanks for the description, I have cancelled my forthcoming planned night out to a lap dancing place and will now stay in with a fiver bottle of cava grin

sweetestB Thu 17-Jan-13 14:40:36

I suppose the letter was folded so OP didn't need to open it and read it didn't she..?

Nancy66 Thu 17-Jan-13 14:42:49

SPG - you'll save a fortune and you won't have a stranger's flaps in yer face either.

Yes exactly. Why would I want a complete stranger to sit at my table anyway? You only have to read the m&s cafe threads to know that's a big no no.

AgathaF Thu 17-Jan-13 15:06:03

What are the m&s cafe threads SPB? I think I might be missing out on something hmm

KatyTheCleaningLady Thu 17-Jan-13 15:07:13

It sounds like one of those places that will take a customer's card and then the girls will sit with the men and give them lap dances and conversation while sweet-talking him into buying bottles of "champagne." Some places require the client to buy drinks to keep the girls at the tables.

It sounds to me that he had a couple of girls settle in with him and sweet talk him, maybe tickle him under the table, and he had to keep buying rounds to keep the honey flowing.

Then he got the bill and felt ripped off.

You can't run up a huge bill like that just sitting there and watching girls twirl around a pole. This involved them getting close and personal and cajoling drinks or lap dances. I would expect the lap dances to be paid in cash to the girl, personally. This sounds like a bar tab.

HeyHoHereWeGo Thu 17-Jan-13 15:13:25

Jesus woman where is your back bone?
You dont mind that your husband had his face less than an inch from another woman's unclothed buttocks and vulva?
Because its not sexual?
So if you undressed and rubbed your self all over a stranger that wouldn't be sexual would it?
Stand up for yourself.#
2 grand?

Greythorne Thu 17-Jan-13 16:09:07

Well, OP, the bigger picture is that:

1. your DH goes behind your back to strip joints when you are out of town
2. your DH does not then come clean and tell you the truth, but lies to you and says he has not been to a strip club
3. your DH spends almost 2 grand in a strip joint, probably having women put their near naked sex organs next to his face, having women rub their near naked sex organs against his clothes at a minimum
4. your DH is either so naive or arrogant, he decides to dispute the bill after the event
5. you discover all of this and your 'crime' of snooping is what might get hisback up

The bigger picture is that he is a lying, deceiving exploiter of vulnerable women and I am baffled by the idea that your take out of this scenario is that he might be pissed off at you for snooping.

Hope you are ok, op.

If you are upset, and somehow, it is difficult to tell if you are, you could tell him to leave the house for a few days. That wouldn't be a bad idea, surely.

If my DH spunked £2000 in such a fashion, I would be looking at a separation.

PeppermintPasty Thu 17-Jan-13 16:49:10

Greythorne has said it all really. And I am baffled as to how some posters are saying he hasn't done anything wrong.

HazeltheMcWitch Thu 17-Jan-13 16:59:44

Very much agree with Nancy and Katy re the drinks thing.

Another version is (knowing 'champagne' is expensive), I'll just have a vodka, thanks. Chap gets told that they only do bottles, not measures, but reckons that's ok, a bottle is what - £20 max in supermarket. So checks, and it's def Smirnoff Red, nothing fancy. Except it's £800 a bottle...

I don't think it was just drinks - It sounds like this guy has been to strip clubs before and you'd have to be a real novice/numpty to be stung in that way.

Chandon Thu 17-Jan-13 17:06:07

Haha, I love it that these kind of guys, who want it both ways ( wifey at home, who is totally cool with strippers and hookers, and other women are for oggling, and f"cking....if it can be arranged) get fleeced by the same women they think they are exploiting. The exploiters exploited, kinda funny. No sympathy there.

Also, you both must be very rich to be able to afford this kind of cash ( even if he disputes the £1000, he probably spent a couple of hundred). I hope you spend the family money as freely on yourself as he does, but somehow I get the feeling the distribution of power is not that even in your relationship.

WilsonFrickett Thu 17-Jan-13 17:11:40

He's probably cross because they forgot to take his Nectar points off the final bill.

He's colluding in the sexual exploitation of women. But you don't seem to be too fussed about that....

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 17-Jan-13 17:13:07

Many years ago in my misspent youth I worked in a topless bar.
We used to have to ask for drinks, either champagne or cocktails, except the cocktails were green water and the champagne was cheap cava.
A bottle of champagne was about 75 quid and there was many a time some poor punter ended up spending thousands of guilders (this was Amsterdam) on their credit card so they could be surrounded by half a dozen half nekkid women.

SirBoobAlot Thu 17-Jan-13 17:14:52

The man is a twat on so many levels.

Seriously woman, have some respect for yourself. Not only does he obviously view women only as sexual items, you are telling him this is okay. He lies to you, telling you he was buying you a present, and now it turns out it is nearly two grand.

You can do miles better than this kind of bullshit.

Greythorne Thu 17-Jan-13 17:17:18

Chandon
I agree completely.

It's an exploitative business on both sides. But this chap doesn't want to be exploited, he wants to be able to contact Visa / his bank and dispute the bill!

Just like you would dispute the bill if Tesco put your shopping bill through twice by mistake. Only he entered a strip joint in the full knowledge that naked women awaited him.

Rather hilarious in a sad and depressing way.

He is doubly charming: wants the extra marital sex excitement AND doesn't want to pay the going rate.

And I can't quite believe those who are saying these places "overcharge" for drinks. In a capitalist system, the going rate is whatever people are willing to pay. Sadly, exploitative men are willing to pay huge sums of money to get up close to strangers' sex organs. They set the price they are willing to pay. It's not "overcharging". You are not paying for cheap supermarket prosecco, you are paying for sexual excitement.

Greythorne Thu 17-Jan-13 17:18:58

OP - are you wealthy?

Can your family afford to piss away 2k ?

sweetestB Thu 17-Jan-13 17:29:53

I siuspect the OP is not as OK as she seems with her H's behaviour, she just needed an eye opener.

CockyPants Thu 17-Jan-13 17:37:22

Wow. Now he's asking for OPs sympathy because he was 'intimidated' into paying a bill.....
Can't wait to see how he'd react to paying the legal fees for a divorce if I'd been daft enough to marry him...
Kick him to the kerb. He's shown you he's a liar. BELIEVE HIM and get rid!

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 17-Jan-13 17:45:08

I actually used to feel quite sorry for some of the punters I worked with.
My boss (female) was very skilled in getting money out of them.
If they bought champagne she would give them free beer, and they'd end up pissed and maxing out their credit cards.
We used to make a beeline for those that were on a stopover from working in Saudi (usually Americans), they would spend a bloody fortune.

KatyTheCleaningLady Thu 17-Jan-13 17:46:38

Selling a glass of green water for £20 is "overcharging." Now, if they said, "You give us £20 and she'll sit there and drink water and act like you're fascinating until she's finished her glass of water" that would be different.

Greythorne Thu 17-Jan-13 17:52:39

Katy
I disagree completely; if you want a glass of water for 1.50, there are any number of pubs / brs / restaurants / coffee shops who sell at that price.

The moment you step foot in a strip joint, you know you are not there to buy a glass of water. You are there to pay hard cash for sexual thrills.

BarredfromhavingStella Thu 17-Jan-13 18:03:34

OP think you're getting a bit of a rough ride here though I don't believe you're really cool with him going to strip joints if I'm honest....

As for the matter in hand, he is talking complete & utter shite-yes he may have been charged extortionate prices for the drinks but as previous posters have pinted out it's most likely a lot of those drinks were bought for the lovely ladies that work there. I also think that he paid for a lot couple of private dances which is in itself fucking wank behaviour, why would you want to pay some randomer to wave naked flaps in your face, just WHY?????

Fuck what he thinks of you having a snoop or whatever, he is out of order & you need to tackle him on this, get the truth out of him & ensure he fully understands it is not acceptable behaviour-that is of course if you can forgive him & move on.

BarredfromhavingStella Thu 17-Jan-13 18:04:52

Pinted out??? hmm I do of course mean pointed out.

Posterofapombear Thu 17-Jan-13 18:49:51

For £1000 of my families money I would expect DH to take me to Paris for the weekend. Not get a stranger to wave her bits at him.

But I'm old fashioned like that.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Thu 17-Jan-13 19:00:00

£1800 in a 'Gentlemans club' and didn't even think to tell you?

Is this an insignificant amount to you both? (ie could you spend that on a weekend away with a friend, new handbag etc without thinking about it)

delboysfileofax Thu 17-Jan-13 22:12:23

I used to work as a door supervisor in one of these clubs. Just because the amount is paid by card doesnt mean it excludes lap dances ie it might not just be a bar tab. In the club I worked at customers could buy vouchers to pay the dancers that way.

On a side note some posters on here have alluded to him paying for sexual acts. Obviously I was not there but I can pretty much guarantee that would not have happened. All private dances in most strip clubs are watched over by security to stop that happening. the owners of these places make too much money to risk losing their licence

sweetestB Thu 17-Jan-13 22:18:11

But the OP was out of town and if her H was capable of doing this and lied about it, what else could he have done?? It sounds he was having a very good time indeed, not carind spending all this money in one night + having a mate there, things could have escaleted further out of the club...

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 17-Jan-13 22:21:34

That was the case where I worked delboys.
My boss was very savvy, getting the blokes pissed being surrounded by topless beauties hanging on to their every word was the way to go.
There were and are plenty prostitutes in Amsterdam, girls that took the punters away for a quickie got sacked.

delboysfileofax Thu 17-Jan-13 22:25:01

Dont get me wrong. Spending that much money is totally taking the piss, the guy's an idiot. I was just trying to give a bit more insight into the clubs.
With regard anything happening away from the club, again unlikely (with the dancers anyway) his credit card was paid to the club. I very very much doubt they would allow it.

What probably happened, and i've seen this a million times, is he opened a tab and left his card behind the bar being flash add a couple of bottles of champagne to that and its easy done

ivykaty44 Thu 17-Jan-13 22:33:21

he has a large bar bill on top of a couple or three private dances - drinks are not cheap and the girls get brought drinks to and it adds up to a very big bill..

They are rip of places as they know they can be

I doubt he knew how expensive it was going to be - but he does now

Greythorne Thu 17-Jan-13 23:29:54

delboy
you wrote: "On a side note some posters on here have alluded to him paying for sexual acts."

Depends what you call sexual act. I, too, doubt there was sexual congress right there in the club or even round a back alley. But it's naive to think these lap dancing clubs offer girls in bikinis "dancing".

It is naked or semi naked women putting their genitalia in the faces of the punters. Rubbing themselves on the punters' clothes. It is not the kind of contact one normally has in a bar.

And that's why they charge the big bucks.

KatyTheCleaningLady Thu 17-Jan-13 23:31:21

I wish I could dry hump hot guys without my husband minding.

Isn't that what lap dances are? Dry humping?

AnyFucker Thu 17-Jan-13 23:39:20

I couldn't be with someone so thick.

delboysfileofax Thu 17-Jan-13 23:52:41

Fair point. when i said sexual acts i meant the obvious, dry humping is pretty much what it is.

Basically for those not in the know, customer sits down, dancer either does a topless dance (£10 and its done there at the table boobs very close to face but never touching) or takes them backstage for a "private dance" ie exactly the same but fully in the nip and thats £20 again no touching

LineRunner Fri 18-Jan-13 00:20:28

And that's why the licensing term for them is Sexual Entertainment Venues.

HoHoHoNoYouDont Fri 18-Jan-13 00:23:07

OP, I feel so sorry for you having to go through this.

If my partner wanted to go to one of those places it would be a deal breaker for me but each to their own. I would certainly find it unacceptable that family money had been spent on such a trash event.

He lied to you too. Not good.

bellamafia Fri 18-Jan-13 06:01:58

Ok ok let's start summing up now.

He prob did not have sex. He def would have had a very close / possible touch of a dancer but like its been said, these places have guardsmen.

He prob was so drunk he doesn't recall what he spent so is questioning.

Fact is, he LIED to his wife that he went. Subsequently LIED about the query he was making on his card claiming it was to do with wife's present. And he will prob lie again!!

If the wife doesn't draw the line somewhere (and for gods sake people this is not childish!!) then he will continue to use these clubs and it only takes one time to accidently hump someone. Right ladies?!!!

Woman up for the love of god and sit him down, talk with him about what you'd found and explain how uncomfortable you have been made to feel. If he gets pissed off re your 'snooping', then like a previous poster stated, get him to realise the bigger picture. And if all else fails.......do this.......

TELL HIM YOU WILL START TO STRIP IN A STRIPCLUB!!!

See how the twat takes to that

When I talked about him paying for sexual services I meant exactly the sort of sexual services that these clubs overtly provide, the sort that are watched by "security"
(so you have another man - likely - watching you grope yourself? Nice...)

LovesBeingWokenEveryNight Fri 18-Jan-13 06:11:19

Op you will find that most people will struggle to get past where this happened.

I think it's highly unlikely that he will successfully challenge this. If he felt that intimidated then maybe it's a police matter? Either way I think it's a case of very high prices that at the end of the day they can charge.

LovesBeingWokenEveryNight Fri 18-Jan-13 06:14:59

Op you will find that most people will struggle to get past where this happened.

I think it's highly unlikely that he will successfully challenge this. If he felt that intimidated then maybe it's a police matter? Either way I think it's a case of very high prices that at the end of the day they can charge.

Monika2012 Fri 18-Jan-13 06:21:52

Well.Its your husband,the father of your kids.
You shouldn't be afraid to ask him about it.
Everyone will be giving you different kind of idea on how to deal with it,but at the end you should know best.....
Just speak to him and see what will happen .
Good luck

MidnightMasquerader Fri 18-Jan-13 07:26:20

So ... what exactly are we talking about here, in blackmail/screw terms...?

Are we saying, that these sorts of clubs freely extorte money out of punters on the basis that a lot of them will be too embarrassed to call them on it?

Really...........................? I mean ... really??

These clubs - which are licensed - freely dabble in extortion and, well, theft....??

grin

Come on. Some of you must have come do the river on your Grandma's piano to actually believe this.

The OP's DH rang up this bill good and proper, and to think otherwise is delusion on a grand scale.

Greythorne Fri 18-Jan-13 07:30:54

I agree.

He ran up the bill good and proper and is too much of a cheapskate to pay up.

Pathetic.

YorkshireDeb Fri 18-Jan-13 07:56:40

Op seems to have vanished. I suspect probably because of they way some posters made her feel by harping on about snooping! I clearly am also a snoop. I do all the washing & ironing. He is seemingly incapable of emptying pockets before putting clothes in the wash bin. Therefore, my options are to shove it in as it is & have all of my clothes covered with the contents (usually teeny bits of soggy tissue) or stick my hand in the pocket to remove the contents before I wash them. My dp has never expressed concern about me looking in his pockets. In fact, if I don't & it makes a mess he asks "why didn't you empty my pockets?" Poor op. For what it's worth most of us on here are on your side. For what it's worth I don't think your fella cheated. To be frank, I think most places like that would not provide services like that & log them on a bill. As far as I know, if it does go further than a private dance it's in an alleyway outside & cash in hand! I think you are quite right to be cross about the amount if money & hope your dh does lots of lovely things to make it up to you. X

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 08:48:18

From a blokes perspective I don't think she was snooping. The rule in our house is whoever does the washing checks the pockets of the clothing. I'm forever leaving pens etc in the pockets! I'm greatful when she checks and vice versa.

Reading the thread though it seems most are really against strip clubs. Why is that?

HeyHoHereWeGo Fri 18-Jan-13 09:33:16

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Greythorne Fri 18-Jan-13 09:34:51

HeyHoHereWeGo

Quite.

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 09:37:32

I couldnt be with a man who visited strip clubs I couldnt even be with a man who uses porn.

Deploy the reason why is if you look into it many of the women who do this have a low self esteem believe men are only after sex and many are childhood abuse women. Thats why your average good looking women doesnt dream of being a stripped or a lap dancer porn worker.

If you actually care look into it and see many sex industry workers are childhood abuse victims any man who can use such a woman is not someone I could be with.

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 09:38:09

Sorry deploy should be delboy.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 09:40:24

Wow, what a reasoned and articulate response. I was asking what the problem with strip clubs was as I genuinely havent met any women who are against them.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 09:40:59

that was aimed at heyhoherewego by the way

spooktrain Fri 18-Jan-13 09:41:17

Love delboy's innocent tone there. Grow up mate

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 09:44:58

Crawling do you mind if i ask how many lapdancers you know? The ones I used to work with didnt fit that mould at all.

Out of the 20 or so who worked there about half were Uni students from mainly middle class backgrounds. A couple were easter european and I admit i didnt know their story and a couple of them were single Mums.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 09:48:54

Spooktrain- what innocent tone? I asked a question and got told to fuck off. It was a genuine question. At least another poster answered it without jumping down my throat and now I have my answer.

tjah04 Fri 18-Jan-13 09:51:01

MM why not dwindle just because they are licensed. The banks have been doing it for years.

The facts are:

1)You have gone away and he has gone to a strip club (Are you OK with this?)

2) He has then failed to tell you about it even lying about the debt(You SHOULD NOT be OK with this!)

3) He may or may not have spent £1000 - could of been dwindled from him or spent on lapdances (IF OK with point 1 then you should expect the latter taking place)

So you now have 2 choices:

1) Do not say anything

OR

2) Wait till he is asleep, string him up by his balls and shove the divorce papers in his face

OR

3) Somewhere inbetween.

Personally I would be wondering where else he has been when I was away and the fact he has lied to get out of this one, will you ever trust what he says again?

Ariel21 Fri 18-Jan-13 09:51:59

I know some men who LOVE stripclubs. I know some men (my husband included, luckily) who finds them seedy and pointless and would only go there on occasion for a stag party or other occasion. I am reasonably indifferent - we can't assure that all dancers/strippers are exploited, at the same time we can probably assume that some girls are.

Delboy - it's good to get a male opinion, and amongst my female peers whose opinions I'm aware of I would say that there would be a mixture of viewpoints on the stripclub topic.

However - as regards the original post, I would be livid if my husband had lied, and apoplectic if it transpired that he had spent such an appalling amount of money in such a place. I hope there is an innocent explanation for the OP's sake.

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 09:53:32

I am a childhood abuse victim who at age 18 thought about stripping because of a distorted view of men.

I believed that if I charged for sex i was in control that men were pigs who took their sexual gratification from women and I may as well get paid for it (judging by your insistence they are students without doing any research Im not far wrong) That I had nothing else to offer the world.

I cant link as last time I looked it up I triggered myself so if you actually care look into it the research is there. Just because a woman is a student doesnt mean she hasn't been abused its something like one in four women are sexually assaulted even if they don't tell you.

tjah04 Fri 18-Jan-13 09:55:55

Are we talking licensed gentleman clubs or seedy back street strip clubs/Escorts. As far as I am aware most of the women subjected to the sex trade work as escorts.

Most Gentleman clubs are as delboy describes and I remember many students doing it for extra cash in my uni days. Hell if I had been able to dwindle a few grand a night, I may of been tempted myself (wink)

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 10:00:42

Crawling- the other dancers you worked with would you say they had a similar background to yourself?
My info doesnt come from any academic research rather than spending along time with, and being friends with some of, the dancers at the club I used to work in

Obviously not many people would divulge being abused as a youngster especially to a colleague, but I dont think many if any of them were from a background which could make them vunerable

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 10:02:06

But obviously not all are but a high proportion of abuse victims do end up in the sex industry. Some probably are just students but many are women who have been exploited for sex previously.

Bearbehind Fri 18-Jan-13 10:02:14

Any woman ok with her husband paying to put his face millimetres away from another woman's naked genitals is a woman in denial.

This seems a sweeping generalisation to me. I would genuinely not mine my husband going to a strip club and I am not in denial about anything sexually orientated. These girls are not prostitutes. How is it different to going to see the Chippendales (if they still exist) or have a stripper on a hen night for example.

I agree there may be girls who have suffered in the past but there are others who have chosen this a way to make a living. Who are we to judge?

Greythorne Fri 18-Jan-13 10:07:26

It is not at all different to going to see the Chippendales. Equally disrespectful if one's partner, equally dehumanizing for the strippers.

I would never set foot in a Chipendales' type club because I see sexuality in a paradigm of mature mutual, respect.

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 10:08:57

I didnt work luckily I met a man who shoned me that not all men care only about sex.

Women who are abused don't just come from vulnerable backgrounds many probably appear to come from good households. The research I read had a horrid extract in which 70% of prostitutes were abused at a young age and the worker new one of the women who said no and asked why she said no the woman replied that when her uncle and father had sex with her at 3 years old she gave consent.

Look into it there is research and just because someone appears to come from a good home really doesnt rule out abuse.

Hullygully Fri 18-Jan-13 10:10:30

He sounds DELISHOUS

Back to the OP's question - 'what do I do?'

I'd be tempted to ask a few awkward questions about the Debenhams dispute and watch him squirm. 'Hows the dispute going? How much was it? How do you think that happened?' Etc. he'll either come clean or dig himself into a bigger hole.

Did this 'present' ever materialise?

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 10:40:59

Ok crawling, but what I am saying about the women who work in these clubs are from talking to them. I worked at the club 5/6 nights a week for 7 hours for about a year and a half. As in any job the more time you spend with co-workers the more you know them

I appreciate there may be academic research done but more often enough that is about sex workers rather than strippers. as you rightly point out there is a huge link between prostitution and being the victim of sexual abuse but there is also a huge difference between those vunerable women and women who work in strip clubs

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 10:52:36

So research it. Look into it or are you scared of what you may find? Just because you knew the women well doesnt rule abuse out only 4 people know I was abused me the person my mum and my dp.You wouldn't know to look at me and friends don't know I would never tell a co worker so you having worked with these girls really doesnt rule abuse out Im sorry

I think its a bit silly to believe these girls are not victims because you worked with them I don't know any abuse victim who brings it up over the coffee break at work.

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 10:57:42

I also find it seedy degrading and pathetic a little weedy so cant respect a man who visits these places.

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 10:58:34

The above comment was in regard to a man visiting these places btw.

WilsonFrickett Fri 18-Jan-13 10:59:48

Ok so say some of the women who work in OP's 'Gentlemen's Club' are as you describe, perfectly happy to be there, middle-class students paying their way through Uni, all lovely and everyone's happy (although let's hope they're not studying gender studies, eh?).

What about the rest of them? Sexually abused? Trafficked? Pimped? In an abusive relationship making money to fund their 'partner's' habits?

What percentage split are you comfortable with? 50% 'totes fine' and 50% 'forced'? 75/25? Or how about none. The only way to ensure the money you spend in a lapdancing club does not directly fund the exploitation of women is not to spend any in the first place.

What I sometimes think is even worse than the clubs being the thin edge of hideous wedge is the veneer of respectability they provide, so that otherwise perfectly sensible 'normal' people you'd be happy to go down the pub with on a Friday night, people like some of the people on this thread, think that lapdancing clubs are fine. They are not. They are the marketable side of a horrible, horrible abusive industry and even if people make an active choice to work there, that doesn't actually make the industry OK.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 11:09:22

as long as we can draw a line between prostitution and strip clubs then fine- in terms of women trafficked in the two clubs I worked at? None. A big fat zero. I know that goes against the point you are trying to make but it was that simple.

With regard you other points. It is THEIR choice to work there. No one elses. If its the choice between earning minimum wage slogging you arse off in a factory on a zero hours contract or making sometimes £500 a night, I know the option I would pick. I dont think its fair for other people to dictate someones line of work to suit their own political agenda

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 11:21:08

Come back when you have researched it. Also prostitution is relevant as it is a part of the sex industry. Not that much difference between rubbing your genitals in a mans face in front of a group of people and having sex with a man for money.

You are determined to justify it in your mind so you can continue exploiting women for your own sexual gratification.

I repeat working with women does not mean you know if they were abused its not a subject you share with co workers. To be honest your assumption that women from good homes don't get abused and that as a co worker you would be privy to such personal information like if someone has been abused show how ignorant you are in matters of abuse.

WilsonFrickett Fri 18-Jan-13 11:21:11

So let's take Crawling's situation above then (hope that's OK Crawling). When she was considering working in a lapdancing club it was as a direct response to how she felt about herself after childhood abuse. Would you still say that was freedom of choice? Because I wouldn't.

How on earth can an individual dictate someone's line of work btw? All they can do is choose to support it or not through their own consumer choices. I choose not to be a consumer of the sex industry (lucky for me as unlike the OP's DP I don't have a spare grand at the moment!)

Greythorne Fri 18-Jan-13 11:26:12

delboy

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

You asked why most people on this thread are against strip clubs? Well, think about this.

Most people would find it strange and distasteful if their (opposite sex) next door neighbour who they say hi to and invite to the occasional barbecue and watch as they struggle to put the bins out suddenly came up to them, stripped off their clothes so they were almost naked and then straddled them, rubbed their sex organs against them and pressed their bodies up against them.

That's usually because most people see their neighbours as people, friends, acquaintances. but aboveall, people. They would no more want their neighbour to dangle their sex organs in front of their nose than they would fly to the moon.

But in a strip club, there is a cognitive dissonance which allows punters to believe that:

a) it's normal to have strangers' genitals in your face
b) it's normal to pay someone for acts which give you a hard on
c) it's fine because these women are there 'voluntarily'
d) nobody gets hurt, there's no contact, it's all quite innocent and normal red-blooded male behaviour
e) these women are enjoying themselves, otherwise, why would they do it
f) it's in a context where "these women" performing and simulating these sex acts is fine....

but if it was the next door neighbour, it would be odd. That's because the strippers have been stripped of their humanity. They are no longer viewed as women, neighbours, mums, human beings with feelings and needs, they are just a vessel for the punter to get a hard on.

That's why I am against strip clubs, and that's without considering the women who are trafficked, assaulted, abused, forced against their will etc.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 11:27:06

i dont know if they were abused- of course i dont. but to equate lap dancing with sleeping with a man for money is completely wrong. and i would imagine very offensive to the women who work in these clubs. on way to work now but will have a look and see if i can find any studies on lapdancers and sexual abuse. I dont think its any more likely than any woman working in any other job but am interested to see if I'm wrong

tjah04 Fri 18-Jan-13 11:32:22

But surely by that reasoning Greythorne anything that desires a stranger to allow sexual gratification is unusual.

Better hope they don't make that 50 shades of grey movie then as the box office will be empty........

Sex sells and I think if you found out half of what your neighbours got up to, your head would turn three times over!!

Is it so bad because Men make it obvious by visiting these places??

Really. If you found out a neighbour was a stripper would you really think "Oh no they have been stripped of humanity" or would you be judgemental of them personally?

HighBrows Fri 18-Jan-13 11:35:18

Delboyfileofax would you want your daughter to work in one of these 'clubs'?

I also don't think you 'asked an innocent question', because with the answers you've been given you still are missing the point.

OP please come back and give us an update.

tjah04 Fri 18-Jan-13 11:35:49

I think what delboy is saying is that there is a broad sex industry. Unfortunately it is an area where many are exploited but that is why in many clubs these regulations are put in place.

All industries can be exploited (just think of onion pickers etc) It is just that due to the subject matter being sex, people are more quicker to jump on the gravy train.

If you have ever bought a vibrator, attended a Hen night with strippers, or sexy lingerie, you are partaking in the Sex industry. It is that Broad!!

MadBusLady Fri 18-Jan-13 11:36:41

Fuck, I can't believe some of the ridiculous "snooping" comments here. Please don't take them at all to heart, OP. Clearly I "snoop" every time I wash DP's jeans. hmm

HighBrows Fri 18-Jan-13 11:38:57

tjah04 The balance of power is off in any relationship where one person pays another for sexual gratification. Seriously you are missing the point that is being made.

Exploitation is wrong no matter which industry.

tjah04 Fri 18-Jan-13 11:44:49

Yes Exploitation is wrong. I never said it wasn't. But it is highly inaccurate to assume that all people who work in the industry were or are victims of sexual abuse or exploitation.

And the balance of power has to be based on perception. Man spends £1000 for a no touching dance where some breasts wobble???? I know who I think is the winner!!!

I just wish women would stop placing all of the blame on Men when it comes to these things. If you look at the facts most exploited victims reported in the press are managed by females themselves.

WilsonFrickett Fri 18-Jan-13 11:45:31

I think if you found out half of what your neighbours got up to, your head would turn three times over!

I think the point is they're not getting up to it with me.

Greythorne thank you for your post it's the first time I've understood cognitive dissonance.

tjah04 Fri 18-Jan-13 11:47:49

They wouldn't be unless you visited a club where it was licensed.

THAT would be illegal!!!

HighBrows Fri 18-Jan-13 11:50:07

tjah04 same question to you, would you be happy with your partner or children working in a lapdancing club?

WilsonFrickett Fri 18-Jan-13 11:58:06

tjah exactly how much of that £1000 do you think went to the women?

tjah04 Fri 18-Jan-13 12:00:23

Would you have such a problem if a man wanted to visit one other than your partner??

I used to work in the city and we would often take clients to "gentleman clubs" I can honestly say about 45% of the people in there were women.

In answer to your question, I wouldn't be happy but I would try not to be judgemental. I could understand it if the reason was for debt etc.... But I would also ensure that they respected themselves first and know what they were doing and if they did suspect anything untoward, to speak out against it. Stripping for a living does not define who you are as a person.

How many people buy the Sun and dont think about the effects of PAGE 3? In mind mind it is all the same thing!

Only a proportion of this industry is dark and I have said very broad indeed?

KoalaTale Fri 18-Jan-13 12:02:20

LTB. He sounds like a lying scoundrel, sorry!

tjah04 Fri 18-Jan-13 12:04:14

As I said before, you have gentleman club and you have seedy backstreet strip clubs. Do I have problems with licensed gentlemen clubs? The answer is No.

All I am asking is that people consider how broad the industry is and accept that women can be as responsible for it as Men.

HighBrows Fri 18-Jan-13 12:04:40

I would have no respect for either a woman or a man frequenting such clubs.
I also have a problem with page 3 style photos.
There is a high level of exploitation involved in both half naked photos and lap dancing clubs.

As for companies bringing clients or whatever to 'gentlemen's clubs', in my mind thats pretty vile and says a lot about the state of how clients are entertained in the corporate world.

tjah04 Fri 18-Jan-13 12:08:21

Genteman clubs are not all about people stripping. Mostly and especially during the day, they are private clubs and no dancers but hostesses who attend to your table personally fully clothed. No different from a resturant really. Yes these hostesses go on to strip in the evening but it is fairly far from vile or seedy.

WilsonFrickett Fri 18-Jan-13 12:08:52

Yes, it is a dark industry so why play a part in making it seem more acceptable? I don't buy The Sun. Don't use porn. Couldn't be with anyone who did, either. Wouldn't be friends with someone who visited a lapdancing club. Don't think it's 'normal' behaviour. Don't say 'are you getting a stripper' when someone's talking about a hen or stag night. Didn't go to the ping-pong show in Thailand. I try hard to make my actions consistent with my beliefs.

HighBrows Fri 18-Jan-13 12:13:35

If that's the case why not go to a normal restaurant? I'll hazard a guess you tjah04 you and men like you like to have get your egos fluffed by someone and you the only way that can happen is if you pay for it. Your posts say an awful lot about you and your sympathisers.

tjah04 Fri 18-Jan-13 12:16:23

Hang on...who said I was male???? I have NEVER said that!!!!!

This proves my point HighBrows you are assuming it is a male industry and women can partake too!!!!

And I have NEVER paid for anything of the kind!!!!!

So my posts obviously do not say too much about me if you cannot even get my sex right!!!!

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 12:18:11

No I don't buy the sun nor have I listed strip clubs or seen a man strip. I don't feel any less disgust at a woman exploiting these women.

I have a problem with anyone visiting not just my partner hope that clears this up. I don't participate in the sex industry.

HighBrows Fri 18-Jan-13 12:21:29

Well why the hell are you bringing clients to 'gentlemen's clubs'..... if you are not a not so gentleman...

Never in all my years working in the city have I even entertained staff, suppliers or clients in a 'gentlemen's club'...

hmm

tjah04 Fri 18-Jan-13 12:26:29

I respect your resolve.

I can't say the same. Although I do not do strippers I do think dita Von Teece is beautiful, I read the sun occasionally and I have read 50 shades.

For me to say I don't partake would be lying! It doesn't make me a bad or vile human in any way!

Greythorne Fri 18-Jan-13 12:55:36

I don't read or buy The Sun on principle.

I don't buy or use porn on principle.

I don't read 50 Shades because it does not interest me for one second.

I don't go to Chippendales type / strip joints on principle.

Believe it or not, tjah04 there are people who are not sucked into the world of paying for sexual thrills.

I also don't have a boring sex life. I have a partner I love and respect and what we do in a consenting relationship is very exciting and fun.

Some people do think about Page 3 and its effects, you know. Not all of us are automatons sleep walking into situations where sexual exploitation is happening.

Look at one of the first mainstream soft porn films, Emmanuelle. In the 70s, it played ion mainstream cinemas and was all about opening up repressed middle class people to a world of exotic, sexual awakening. Lovely.

Except years later it came out that the lead actress had been sexually abused as a nine year old and she went on to lead a difficult life including an addiction to cocaine.

tjah04 Fri 18-Jan-13 13:59:56

Hang on.....Your all to focused on being protesting that you have missed my points:

I have said yes extortion goes on but many do make choices to work in these clubs - a balanced view is needed

That the sex industry extends far beyond strip clubs

That Women are as responsible for this fact then Men

NEVER have I said that anyone should not agree with the industry or that people are being sucked in by it but the fact is that it is all around us and I applaude you if you are one of the few who recognise this and do make steps to not join it. However the facts speak for themselves - 50 shades most popular book being one - SEX SELLS.

And I have never made reference to (or want to know) how exciting ones life is in the bedroom.

Whilst you all have come up with very good examples of indivduals who were caught up in the trade due to being forced or abused, you are failing to acknowledge those who do it because they feel liberated / want to get out of debt etc.....

Above all my main objection was to the fact that a man came on and highlighted this and everyone jumped on him.

Greythorne Fri 18-Jan-13 14:04:40

I don't know what your last post adds to the debate.

tjah04 Fri 18-Jan-13 14:07:55

I am not sure telling me about the exciting sex you have with your husband does either but I am sure you thought you had a point!!

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 14:14:11

I never said all women were abused just that many of them have low confidence and low inhibitions and self belief or faith in men because of abuse.

NO One said all were abused. As for 50 shades that is a book which has hurt no One. Anyone who can jerk off knowing the object of fantasie has a high chance of doing this as a result of being abused is vile and sick IMO.

So what if some want to do it the majority are taking advantage of women who have been abused and it doesnt matter how much people protest it is wrong regardless of whether its a man or woman.

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 14:16:12

tjah How high must the percentage of abuse victims be before you think its wrong to jerk off to a exploited woman?

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 14:21:16

Crawling- how many women working in strip clubs have YOU spoken to. Not a study, not a piece of research, from you personally talking to them?

How are they exploited?

Greythorne Fri 18-Jan-13 14:23:48

tjah04

Well, I was aware that I was coming across as very po-faced and "anti" everything, so I mentioned my (happy) sex life as a counter to the myth that extra marital sexual activity / porn / strip clubs are what adds spice to one's sex life.
smile

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 14:24:30

By the way- have looked online for any studies related to dancers and abuse as children. Couldnt find anything relating to the uk. there was plenty to do with prostitution but nothing to do with strip clubs

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 14:25:02

still here del boy as I said to you women don't tell their co workers they have been abused so it doesn't matter how many I've worked with. Also I see you've come back after saying you were going to research I take it you didnt get the answers you wanted and thats why your back to pathetically whining but I've worked with them they would have told me if they have been abused.

tjah04 Fri 18-Jan-13 14:29:13

I do not think anyone would disagree with you Crawlings - I certainly do not.

I just think it does not fully represent the industry and it is a shame that it is overshadowed by people who are exploited and abused.

Just as anyone who wears primark clothes or eats onions. - Exploitation is everywhere!!!! This one is easier to pick from the pile because it brings sex into the equation but it dismisses the fact that many also take part consensually.

Anyway I must dash and pick the LO's up from school but it was good speaking with you all.

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 14:29:21

So deploy how high a proportion would be unacceptable?
You come across as narrow minded and arrogant refusing to believe that these women don't just wave their fancies at you because your so hot and they get a sexual thrill for the honour of it. pathetic that some people have such a cap sex life they have to pay someone to arouse them id be mortified if it was me.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 14:30:04

pathetic whining?? get over yourself. i've clearly stated that i've looked and couldnt find anything. I'm not the one with the agenda here. You disagree with strip clubs-fine. But dont pretend you know anything about them. I thought about being an astronought once. doesnt mean im an expert on nasa

tjah04 Fri 18-Jan-13 14:30:21

grin I know you was Grey - Just messing with you!

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 14:32:54

"waving their fancies at me?"
Its not difficult- im not a patron of strip clubs. I. used. to. work. at. one.
Again how many strippers have you spoke to?

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 14:34:31

and None of the strippers i used to work with got a sexual thrill from it at all. it was all about money and a lot of it

Greythorne Fri 18-Jan-13 14:37:28

Yes, exploitation is everywhere. So let's just give up. Accept strip joints on every high street. Buy clothes manufactured using child labour. Drink coffee harvested by workers who receive mere pennies for a day's work. Take illegal drugs that have been trafficked in the rectum of a south American mule.

hmm

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 14:38:08

Actually I worked with 20 when I was 17/18 there was act every Saturday night which involved them i knew them well and being a woman they did share things with me and while I wont betray their stories some were harrowing.

I had a job offer from them and would have taken it had it not been for my wonderful dp. Does that satisfy you?

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 14:41:33

and all 20 of them were victims of sexual abuse were they? all of them decided to become strippers because of that?

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 14:43:10

I was also amazed that they put make up in the weirdest places as im sure having worked with them you know just to prove I did actually meet with them. I also happen to know most of the pole dancers did at least 2 hours exercise a day in order to be fit enough to work the pole.

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 14:44:46

No not all twenty one told me a harrowing story another had a abusive boyfriend but I didnt know the rest that well just quick hello in the changing rooms.

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 14:47:15

The one who shared her story was very close to me for a time at least. We all knew about the abusive boyfriend as she spent hours covering bruises.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 14:49:01

Crawling i dont mean this to be a personal battle. its just i think its too far to equate strippers with prostitutes, to infer that they all have been victims of sexual abuse etc. The same old stuff always gets trotted out with this sort of thing by people who hate strip clubs. Fair enough if an individual hates them, its the bullshit which gets spouted in an attempt to make everyone hate them which annoys me.

Its a simple fact that most who work there are "ordinary" women who are trying to earn a living. They dont need to be ridiculed or pitied or an assumption made that they are vunerable

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 14:51:09

Some probably are just normal people but many are not and thats enough reason not to go near them.

HighBrows Fri 18-Jan-13 14:53:24

Delboyfileofax in what capacity did you work in a strip club, eg. bouncer, dj etc?

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 14:54:42

i was security there- not a massive fan of the term bouncer

HighBrows Fri 18-Jan-13 14:56:38

Ok sorry about that blush the last time I was out security was called bouncer!

OP said that the husband was kinda threatened for the payment, would this happen, do you think?

WilsonFrickett Fri 18-Jan-13 14:58:25

No del, it's a simple fact that in your experience and as far as you know most of them are 'ordinary' women. You know - what? 20 stories out of thousands. You are taking your experience and extending that to cover an entire industry with a positive glow. Fair enough, you have a vested interest I suppose. But don't ask others to join in with your denial.

(Although while I don't want to derail into semantics, women who have been abused, trafficked, pimped, bullied etc still are 'ordinary')

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 15:03:03

no probs! a lot of colleagues like the term but i think its got bullying undertones to it and i hate bullies.

In answer to your question completely depends on the club. if it was a chain club, not a chance. some small pokey out of the way type place- possibly. all it would take is a phone call to the police if that was the case...
But on a number of occassions groups of lads come in and get on the ale big time. They come in as a group of 10 and that bar bill is quite small to be honest. one by one they filter out as it gets later and before you know it one unlucky sod is dipped for paying the tab because his mates have gone. they realise how much it is so try and get out of it and argue with the manager. security are called in case they get stroppy with said manager

HandbagCrab Fri 18-Jan-13 15:05:46

It's part of the myth isn't it? All lap dancers are earning thousands whilst they study for their MSc in economics and before they take the hedge fund job and move back to middle class Surrey. There was an article about it in the guardian a few months back.

If my dh spent nearly 2k in a lap dancing club he'd be out on his arse. Even if we were millionaires. It's beyond disrespectful.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 15:05:58

wilson. But is that not what you are doing? taking an example and applying it to all?

I knew the word normal would get jumped on thats why i did the commas!

HighBrows Fri 18-Jan-13 15:09:57

I wish the OP would come back with an update.

I agree HandbagCrab it is a myth.

Delboy it just sounds so sordid the way these clubs operate and I do believe most of the dancers are exploited.

Greythorne Fri 18-Jan-13 15:10:54

Funny how the euphemisms abound:

"Gentlemen's Club" not naked women club or strip joint
"Security" not bouncer
"lapdance" not sex organs proximity to nose dance
"pole dance" not simulation of sex with phallic object dance

Greythorne Fri 18-Jan-13 15:13:57

It's all part of the continuum of normalising the sex industry:

the tart with the heart narrative
the clever student pole-dancing just so she doesn't need to take out a student loan

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 15:14:19

Yeah some of them are (i no longer have an interest as i dont work there any more) but its not a myth. There were students there, mums there all sorts really.

Yes they can be seedy especially when they're quiet and you do witness some depressing things. But like i said earlier some make massive money there.

I just believe it should be the womans choice to work there. If you dont like strip clubs- dont go. It doesnt need people crusading for the people who work in them.

Greythorne Fri 18-Jan-13 15:18:30

I do agree with that in a way, as it's an argument I often use with anti-abortionists....'you don't agree with abortion? then don't have one'

But this thread is actually about a man with a wife and family who is not only going to these clubs, but lying about it, spending €€€€€€€€ that the family (presumably) can ill afford and then lying again, saying the dispute is soemthing to do with Debenhams (FFS!) and, to top it all, the OP is scared of confronting him just in case he gets pissed off about snooping.

Forgive us if this case does not seem to be a good argument in favour of: "If you don't like strip clubs, don't go"

AnyFucker Fri 18-Jan-13 15:19:11

Is security solely for the arsey non payers then ? No other role at all? Strangely, I don't require protection to do my job.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 15:21:37

Agreed- i do think the bloke was out of order completely. for lying to her, and for spending an obscene amount of their family money. i dont think he was out of order for going in the first place though

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 15:23:46

Anyfucker- its a licence requirement usually as with all licenced premises open past 11.

Arsey customers, pissed customers, stopping fights, making sure no one touches the dancers etc

HandbagCrab Fri 18-Jan-13 15:25:11

It says a lot about our society when a woman has more earning power in her naked tits than in her talents or intelligence.

Greythorne Fri 18-Jan-13 15:28:48

Anyfucker has it on the nail.

And strange, if these men are just going to these places to watch, that security is needed to stop them touching the women.

Surely, they know the rules of engagement? But they choose to ignore them. and need "security" to remind them.

whateveritakes Fri 18-Jan-13 15:32:25

Good point HandbagCrab.

Strip clubs undermine women. Perhaps the ones making a ton of money are happy with it. But it's still sends out a shit message that women are entertainment and that tits and fannies are for sale.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 15:33:01

They know them- they're given a spiel on the way in.

But yes some do break the rules. I can put my hand on my heart though and say that i have thrown far far more men and women out of nightclubs for sexually assaulting someone than i have in a strip club. I think thats because they think they can get away with it in a nightclub though

lovelyladuree Fri 18-Jan-13 15:33:42

I hope he got his money's worth. And you need to visit a STD clinic imo.

atacareercrossroads Fri 18-Jan-13 16:20:06

Lol, 2k on drinks alone?

Riiiiiiight

pacific407 Fri 18-Jan-13 17:00:33

But Delboy, just because not 100% of strippers have been the victims of abuse, does that make strip clubs or other similar establishments ok? Yes, fair enough, some people make an informed decision to work in those places because the money's great and perhaps they can pay their way through uni without getting into debt. But to my mind, the idea that even as few as 1 in 100 of these women were victims of abuse means that these places are objectionable.
Presumably as a customer it isn't possible to go into one of those places and specifically ask for a lap dance "...but only from a girl that hasn't been the victim of abuse, please" So there's always the possibility, as a customer, that the lady giving you a lapdance was/is being abused or suffering the after-effects of abuse. So simply to go into those kinds of places is to accept that your gratification is more important than the wellbeing of the ladies working there.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 17:16:27

pacific- so should it be a case that women who through no fault of their own have been abused should not be allowed to work in strip clubs then? what sort if employment is it ok for them to gain? who decides?

pacific407 Fri 18-Jan-13 17:30:21

Delboy, a very interesting and important question, and it would be very easy to come up with a trite response. I certainly think the money is an important factor, as presumably in many cases (I stress not all) these ladies are earning more than they would be able to elsewhere, and I can see an argument for saying that, by closing all of these types of places down you are doing people out of a livelihood. In my opinion, though, if it stops the exploitation of the ladies that are being abused, then it is worth the impact on those who are happily working there of their own free will.

To address your question re: alternative employment, I am in no way judging how somebody decides to earn their money. Be it prostitute, stripper (and I stress I do not equate the two), or banker wink. It is the industry that I have a problem with. So I don't really have an opinon on what sort of employment it is "ok" for them to have. Any type of employment where the side effect of such employment is not the abuse of girls.

I accept that the consequence of this is that some ladies who are more than happy to work as strippers, who have not been abused, and who earn great money, would be disadvantaged. But as I say I think it is worth it if it protects the vulnerable girls who, I assume we can both agree, are exploited by the industry.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 17:38:06

pacific- kudos to you for having the balls to give a straight answer on that. I personally disagree- i think freedom of choice for all is more important but thats all politics I suppose. I think whilst there are people making a fortune out of this sort of thing it will always go on.

carmenelectra Fri 18-Jan-13 19:52:58

Argh, posted earlier but signal lost on phone.

Has this op done one too?

Ok, now either her dh has been well and truly fleeced. In whivh case what a mug and what was he hoping? Just to waste a couple hundred on ogling birds? Or he has done more to spend his 2k- maybe a blow job?

Either way, op is not just alright with him going to strip clubs but also very rich. 2 grand to me is a family holiday, not a night out with the lads.

I personally wouldn't be too fussed about a one off visit to a lapdancing club. My dp I mean. However, private dances or regular visits no way. Basically these men are getting sexually aroused by another woman. I would not accept that.

I would also not accept the concept of men 'entertaining' clients in a lapdancing club. Wtf? How is that relating to work?that's wrong.

sweetestB Fri 18-Jan-13 20:05:26

Delboy, answer the question: would you be happy for your daughter to follow this career path.? Would you have a serious relationship with a woman who does it?

pansyflimflam Fri 18-Jan-13 20:05:47

2k on drinks..no and certainly more than a blow job for him and his mate. These places are expensive but not that expensive. There is def. something quite sexually heavy duty going on for that price. Sorry OP but get yourself check for STDs

AnyFucker Fri 18-Jan-13 20:09:26

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 20:18:23

would i be happy for my daughter to do it? if thats what she wanted yes. I would hope she would be able to do something else but if not i wouldnt be disowning her.

Secondly i have had a relationship with a dancer, lasted about two years.

YorkshireDeb Fri 18-Jan-13 20:21:04

Interesting comment anyfucker. Was op a troll? X

AnyFucker Fri 18-Jan-13 20:24:15

who knows, deb ?

start a bunfight, fuck off

there's an MO

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 20:24:22

pansyflimflam- you know bottles of champagne in those places can be between £350-£800 dont you?

Greythorne Fri 18-Jan-13 20:27:02

AnyFucker
What other website?

AnyFucker Fri 18-Jan-13 20:30:06

Grey, one of those pro-sex industry ones that periodically come over to start bunfights on MN. There's many a precedent.

Greythorne Fri 18-Jan-13 20:41:54

Bloody hell.
Got totally sucked in.

But if he / she is totally pro sex industry, why start athread guaranteed to get loads of anti comments.

<baffled>

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 20:43:57

why would someone do that? are there any "pro" sex industry websites? Surely coming on mumsnet wouldnt be the best call even if there were

carmenelectra Fri 18-Jan-13 20:44:53

greythorne there are a few such sites. The members think mumsnet is full of frigid old birds who hate sex and men.

They are not used to 'normal' women who challenge men who cheat/ buy sexual services..

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Fri 18-Jan-13 20:52:02

"Bloody hell.
Got totally sucked in.

But if he / she is totally pro sex industry, why start athread guaranteed to get loads of anti comments.

<baffled> "
Because, amongst their other problems, these pro-sex industry types are really quite stupid.

carmenelectra Fri 18-Jan-13 20:52:12

delboy they do do such things, trust me. They are kind of obsesed with mumsnet. The men because they want to justify why they do it, ie that normal women are dried up old bags. And the women because they want tp prove that they are sexier and better at sex. Like a marketing tool.

YorkshireDeb Fri 18-Jan-13 20:53:05

Very interesting! I was sticking up for her/him too - and was dying to hear what happened when she told her husband! Sucked in. X

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Fri 18-Jan-13 20:56:03

yes, but it's kind of marketing themselves to themselves, which is a whole other order of fucked up weirdness which you really don't want to begin to try to understand.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 20:56:15

Well thats a bit weird

Crawling Fri 18-Jan-13 20:56:21

Sucked in angry

carmenelectra Fri 18-Jan-13 21:01:02

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 21:06:49

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

YorkshireDeb Fri 18-Jan-13 21:11:27

On about page 4 I thought she'd vanished cos people kept saying she was snooping & I felt sorry for her. X

LineRunner Fri 18-Jan-13 21:21:43

I thought SEVs had to put clear price lists up on the walls, as a condition of their licenses.

I would feel sorry for anyone whose partner blew a week's take home pay on a bottle of fizzy plonk to play the Big Man in a sleazy club that exploits young women.

carmenelectra Fri 18-Jan-13 21:25:59

delboy, you serious?been stupid? Understatement.

Stupid to me would be my dp gambliNg 2k or maybe going on a nite out and losing his wallet. Not 2k tho obviously.

Spending 2 grand on paying to ogle women close up and maybe touch, or wish he could, aint stupid. Its being disrespectful and on the verge of cheating.

Realistically, if my dp spent that much at a club I'd think he had had sex or was hoping he could get sex by paying for private dances etc

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 21:29:12

whether its cheating or not clearly is up to each individuals relationship. she said she had no problem with him going so clearly in their relationship its not. So he was stupid (for spending that much money) and dishonest (for lying about it) it doesnt make him a cheat

AnyFucker Fri 18-Jan-13 21:33:46

delboy, you might be a right nice bloke, I dunno

but not every guy who trawls the internet looking for key words "lap dancer" "sex industry" "my husband uses porn" are looking to help you know ?

there's a fair few of them bashing the bishop over this thread as we speak

that's not you though, you are "security" so utterly trustworthy of course

Letstryagain Fri 18-Jan-13 21:33:50

I'm not a troll - still here and reading responses. He maintains that he was drunk and doesn't know what the bill covered, swears he had private dances but nothing more.
I have told him that if the trust is gone there is no relationship - feel like I am in limbo, still don't know what to do, confused as to what exactly went on.
Also I have realised that I am not ok with lap dancing clubs after all- as some people said. Thank you for those who were nice & considerate as to my feelings - not sure where I am at the moment

AnyFucker Fri 18-Jan-13 21:35:21

there's a fair few of these inadequate twats that have been pasted on here before, and bear a bit of ill feeling towards MN

they don't care how they get a reaction, as long as they get one

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 21:39:45

why would i not be trustworthy if i was security there? genuinely puzzled at that one.

OP. I know you dont know me but I can honestly say as someone who worked full time at one of these clubs that it is very very very unlikely that any sexual acts (ie other than lapdances) took place. why would any of the dancers/strippers do a sexual act on him when they can make more than enough money from him by simply doing what their job entails?

MidnightMasquerader Fri 18-Jan-13 21:42:15

But the OP's not OK even with them simply doing what their job entails...

So your point is really rather moot.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 21:42:30

just to add, i didnt find this thread by trawling the internet. i have been a long time reader online but never signed up to be a poster. i downloaded an app and on my phone you have to register. i saw a thread which i thought, hey i know a fair bit about this industry- i'll let them know what i know

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 21:44:32

but at the time midnightmasquerader she was. you cant have a go at your partner retrospectively when you no longer find something acceptable so its not a moot point

Oh letstryagain, glad you came back but sorry to hear where you are at.

Are you able to get your anger, disgust, etc over to him? Is he listening to you?

AnyFucker Fri 18-Jan-13 21:47:44

hey i know a fair bit about this industry- i'll let them know what i know

how noble of you

Letstryagain Fri 18-Jan-13 21:50:32

Thank you delboys - you are right, I had said it was fine but he now knows that I am not generally ok with it, as you say I can't retrospectively be annoyed. My issue is with the money spent & him lying about it - don't know how to move on from it

Hmm, delboys, you can have a go at your partner when you find out he is a twat. The op has found out he is a twat.
The question is how to move on from that?

I just cannot get my head around two things. Firstly, how is having another person's sexual organs being shown to you because you want them to not cheating? If another man asked me to take my clothes off and I did for him, you can bet my DH would consider it cheating. Why is it not because money changed hands?

Secondly, what is the point of these places? If there is genuinely no sex/hand/blow jobs, why bother? I can't imagine DH would be all that elated if I took all my clothes off, danced around, talked dirty, rubbed my boobs in his face, then said, "right, nighty night dear". So, are they wanking in the toilets, coming in their boxers during the private dances, getting their rocks off outside with someone else or going home with erections? Or, is having semi-naked women draped all over them some kind of power trip.

Yuk, yuk, double yuk.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 21:51:53

anyfucker- what exactly is your problem. you have questioned my intentions and i have explained them. Is it because my viewpoint is different from yours or are you just rude in general?

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 21:55:36

of course he's been a twat and she has every right to have a go at him. someone stated "its cheating" i argued it wasnt as in the original post she said she was ok with him going- she has since changed her mind. again that is up to her but she cannot now be mad at him for that. sure he was a dick spending that much money- but he was not cheating on her under the rules of their relationship

AnyFucker Fri 18-Jan-13 22:02:53

delboy, I haven't questioned your intentions

I have questioned the intentions of men who rock up on these threads

if you are here for purely altruistic reasons, then you are not one of those men, are you ?

what does get people's backs up though is your assertion that the people who disagree with you are simply in need of a bit of your version of education, a bit of mansplaining if you like

I'm just blinded by his sheer twatishness. Whether its cheatIng or not is a moot point really.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 22:12:14

anyfucker- maybe. I think people who make assumptions about strip clubs without setting foot in one probably could do with some more info.

I wasnt being altruistic- i was genuinely trying to help put the OP's mind at rest regarding him having sex with one of the women who work there. Then i was interested in hearing from other posters on here why they were against strip clubs. And to be fair comments equating them to prostitutes and sweeping generalisations that they were all vunerable women made for an interesting conversation

carmenelectra Fri 18-Jan-13 22:14:13

Spot on terryp

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 22:14:51

also "you are security so utterly trustworthy of course" isnt questioning my intentions?

LineRunner Fri 18-Jan-13 22:16:18

I would really like to know the answers to MrsTerryP's questions, too.

AnyFucker Fri 18-Jan-13 22:19:25

No, that was simple sarcasm, dude. Easy to miss, I suppose.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 22:21:34

so if it was sarcasm then my point stands. why am i not trustworthy due to my job?

AnyFucker Fri 18-Jan-13 22:28:57

You called it "preventing men from touching the dancers". I would call it fending off sexual assault. And yet you defend their right to be there. On a Parenting website. Dodgy.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 22:32:20

surely preventing sexual assault is a good thing. and of course i would defend their right to be there. its not illegal- i believe as adults people should be able to do what they like within the realms of the law.

as i said earlier i have seen far more sexual assaults in nightclubs than i have in strip clubs

LineRunner Fri 18-Jan-13 22:39:07

I wonder how many attempted ('fended off') sexual assaults in SEVs are reported to the police...

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 22:40:21

linerunner. not a single one that i was aware of.

LineRunner Fri 18-Jan-13 22:43:52

See, if someone had to stop a man sexually assaulting me in the street, I would 100% call the Police, because a crime against me would still have been committed.

I don't understand why SEVs inhabit some kind of judicial la-la land.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 22:48:34

I think the reasons are that firstly giving a statement to the police takes bloody ages. a lot of the dancers werent prepared to give up the time and lose money. the guy/girl was thrown out and that tended to be the end of it.

Second- trying to get a policeman between the hours of 2200-0400 is nearly impossible. they rarely were about for serious assaults that took place on the street let alone attending the venue for an attempted sexual assault. not their fault there just wasnt the numbers

allgoingtoshitnow Fri 18-Jan-13 23:03:43

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

WilsonFrickett Fri 18-Jan-13 23:06:12

Del i Don't think anyone said all women lap dancers were vulnerable. Just that a significant proportion of them probably could be.

But to return to the op. to be fair to Del he's right in a way, you can't retrospectively say 'actually you know how I was always cool with lap dancing clubs? Nah, you're dumped.' But you have learned a lot about him over the last 24 hours. So what do you want to happen now?

AnyFucker Fri 18-Jan-13 23:07:10

yes, allgoing, that point was noted some time back, but delboy is still on a mansplaining trip

AnyFucker Fri 18-Jan-13 23:08:28

the thing is (to get back on point)

A lot of women think they need to be cool with their husbands paying for sexual services. They do not. They can change their mind any time they like

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 23:12:46

or anyfucker i might just have a different opinion than you. why are you seeing it as a personal slight? so far all you have done is have a pop at me. if i was a female door supervisor would you still be as confrontational? why does my posting piss you off so much?

Perhaps you would like to contribute to the thread with you opinions/expierience of strip clubs without attacking other posters by claiming they're trolls or having a hidden agenda

AnyFucker Fri 18-Jan-13 23:14:22

I didn't say you were a troll, delboy. I think you are a very real person.

LineRunner Fri 18-Jan-13 23:16:40

AIBU = the real world

grin

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 23:21:28

so why the mansplaining? i must admit i didnt know what that meant so have googled it.

Im not assuming i know more than any one else on the subject- however i believe i have more first hand experience of the subject than most. I'm happy to stand corrected if there are any posters on here who also have first hand experience. However i think its fair to say that when posters are stating they are prostitutes when they are ckearly not; I should correct them. No? when other generalisations are made about them should i not say anything for fear of mansplaining?

AnyFucker Fri 18-Jan-13 23:25:22

You don't like to have your ideas challenged do you, del ole boy ?

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 23:28:23

I have no problem with them being challenged- I have problems with people being confrontational with me for the sake of it.

LineRunner Fri 18-Jan-13 23:28:36

Personally I find mansplaining is about style, content and repetition. Just saying.

delboysfileofax Fri 18-Jan-13 23:31:48

sorry linerunner i dont quite follow..

YorkshireDeb Sat 19-Jan-13 02:40:25

I have to say Delboy, I actually respect the fact that you've stuck with this thread for so long. You've received flaming after flaming & imo personal attack & your messages remain polite & dignified. I understand that some people have issues with this industry & with your profession but think you have become some kind of scapegoat for all if their bad feelings. I feel bad for op because of the amount of money her dh spent & the lies involved. I have visited a lap dancing club (with a group of mainly female friends on a night out) & discovered they're not the places I assumed they were. I did not feel the women were being manipulated in any way. The pole dancing was quite frankly talented & as far as I'm aware they make bloody good money. One of my friends, on a different night out, paid for a dance to find out what it entails & chatted to the girl & again was left with a very positive impression. On this basis I would not be upset if my dp wanted to go to one. But I would if he spent 2 grand of our money on anything without discussing it with me first. <prepares for flaming> x

DizzyZebra Sat 19-Jan-13 05:03:54

Id like to point out not all women who do this sort of thing are abused and damaged.
I'm not a stripper but the work I do, I do because I look good. I use that to my advantage and yeah I mostly target men. Its because its so.fucking.easy. Men will buy shit off me at a ridiculous price because they fancy me. End of. They are idiots. Not all men but the sort that do this are. I'm not doing it for any other reason than that. Its easy money. These men pay me to be able to work when I want and spend most of my time with my kids. Why would I do something else, have to work hard and not see my kids?

YorkshireDeb Sat 19-Jan-13 05:26:05

Thanks for posting dizzy. I had been thinking how offensive it is to suggest the women in this industry are only doing it because they were abused or something - and also the sense that they're forced into it or taken advantage of. X

KateSMumsnet (MNHQ) Sat 19-Jan-13 11:50:38

Hi everyone,

We're just going to remind you all of our talk guidelines, in particular the bits about troll hunting and personal attacks.

LineRunner Sat 19-Jan-13 17:30:43

It's a Dead Thread Walking, anyway, KateS.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now