Son's wife and my grandchild

(1000 Posts)
Frenchspeak Wed 16-Jan-13 20:36:08

Hello
Have changed my name to protect privacy, I apologise in advance as this might be very long and rambling. Basically I want to get some views from you to help me sort this issue

The issue is that I feel pushed out of my son’s life. I get on ok with his wife but i have always found her difficult and this has been made worse since they had a child.

When she first had the baby they requested only 2 visitors at a time. I can understand that they didn’t want to be overwhelmed with guests but feel parents and siblings are different. I wanted to see the baby with my husband and other son. This meant that my other sons girlfriend needed to come as well. So there would have been 4 of us. My son stated to please stick to what was originally said. We did do this but I feel resentful that I didn’t agree to it first of all, and that I couldn’t see my boys all together. I know this may sound silly, but i wanted to take photos of my husband, and both sons holding the baby.

This has come to a head because I was trying to organise a family party so everyone could see baby. My son said it seemed a nice idea but thought his wife might find it a bit full on. Surprise surprise, she doesn’t think she’s up to it and wants to have time just the 3 of them. I suggested she might want to just come for a couple of hours and then go home to rest. But she said she’d be taking the baby home with her. She seems to forget that we are her child’s family and need to be included.

I have tried talking to my son about it and he understands. But things just stay the same and it is very frustrating.

DialsMavis Wed 16-Jan-13 20:38:14

Surely this is a reverse AIBU? It must be!

oneforthemoney Wed 16-Jan-13 20:38:51

How old is the baby?

I would not have left my newborn behind at a party.

I dont think 2 visitors at a time is unreasonable in the very early days either.

Annakin31 Wed 16-Jan-13 20:39:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AppleOgies Wed 16-Jan-13 20:40:33

This is the most blatant reverse aibu ever.

Signet2012 Wed 16-Jan-13 20:40:37

Has to be a reverse. Either that or you have forgotten what it was like when you had your sons!

sittinginthesun Wed 16-Jan-13 20:40:38

How old is the baby?

InNeatCognac Wed 16-Jan-13 20:40:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Annakin31 Wed 16-Jan-13 20:41:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Assuming the baby is still really small, it is up to your son and wife. If you keep on pushing her, she may well turn round and tell you to fuck off go away and not come back. You see your grandchild on her suffrance. It's harsh, it may even be unfair, but it's the reality of the situation.
Look at it from her side
AIBU: "I have a newborn and am struggling to get into a routine and recover from the birth. We asked everyone to only come to visit two at a time so we can cope without being overwhelmed but my MiL kicked off and tried to insist on bringing DHs brother and his girlfriend with her and FiL. I had to insist on only two at a time and now she is bad mouthing me and complaining, and trying to turn the rest of the family against me. She is organising a get together and trying to get me to go home when I am tired and leave my new born to be passed round like a parcel. How can I get her to just lay off until I get used to being a mum, have healed and rested, and got a routine going? I don't want to fall out with her, but she just won't back off"

TheseGoToEleven Wed 16-Jan-13 20:42:38

Good for the wife for being able to say exactly what she is willing to do I say! What is this "need to be included"?!

YABVU.

The woman has just had a baby. She comes first. Sorry, it must be hard but honestly, you need to lower expectations.

Also, stop blaming just her. How do you know your son didnt suggest the two visitors rule himself?

Sirzy Wed 16-Jan-13 20:42:55

Yup got to be a reverse AIBU.

Greensleeves Wed 16-Jan-13 20:43:29

Um, I think your DIL's need for peace and quiet to recover after giving birth trumps your desire to take photographs hmm. Why couldn't you take them later? Some women can't face visitors at all when they have just had a baby.

Re: the party - it is for the parents to organise a party for their baby, not you. Of course you are excited about your grandchild, but it is not appropriate for you to take charge of who sees their child and when.

It doesn't sound to me as though she wants to push you out of their lives. If she did you would not have been invited to see the new baby at all. It sounds to me as though you are pushing too hard, too soon and if you don't rein it in you WILL end up alienating your son and his wife.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

riverboat Wed 16-Jan-13 20:43:34

There are grains of reasonability, but not understanding why she doesn't want to leave her newborn at a family party without her being there, and thinking that photographs are more important than what a woman who has just given birth feels up to...YANBU / reverse AIBU.

fatfinger Wed 16-Jan-13 20:43:46

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

LittleChimneyDroppings Wed 16-Jan-13 20:44:14

This is a reverse isn't it? Please let it be a reverse.

alisarah Wed 16-Jan-13 20:44:16

Yabu.. I wouldn't leave my newborn at all for a couple of months.. esp if bf. Why didn't did other son's gf 'have to come too'?

I don't think any of her requests are particularly unreasonable. Sounds like you don't like the fact she is dictating how things will be in her family.

bran Wed 16-Jan-13 20:45:15

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AngryTrees Wed 16-Jan-13 20:45:40

Are you the DIL? If so, just post the situation normally rather than twisting things round!

Astley Wed 16-Jan-13 20:46:12

YABU just for 'son' wife' hahaha no wonder she doesn't like you!

maddening Wed 16-Jan-13 20:46:22

Whether she is right or wrong you need to tread carefully and really respect what she wants - you would be in danger of damaging the relationship and further pushing them away. Remember what it was like.to be a first time mum - the more you show you respect her boundaries the more she'll let you in

You also need to forge a friendship with her for the sake of the future - always ask how she is before the baby. Don't rush to take the baby. Do nice things to help her. Don't force a party on her.

DoodleAlley Wed 16-Jan-13 20:46:24

It's tricky to comment without knowing age of baby for party but I don't think your dil is necessarily being unreasonable.

Things like having to bring your sons girlfriend dont seem necessary and certainly a family party for the baby would have filled me with borrow for the first month or two at least and obviously a breastfed baby would need to return with mum. Although you wouldn't have prised DS from me anyway bf or bottle!

So I do have sympathy for your dil I'm afraid but then don't know all the details

TheDeadlyDonkey Wed 16-Jan-13 20:46:36

How old is the baby? Sounds very young still.

I know the baby is your family, but first and foremost, the baby is your ds and ddil's.
The conditions set after the birth are probably something that they set together, to make sure they are not overwhelmed with visitors.
Organising a party for your family to meet the baby sounds (IMO) a bit OTT and inappropriate. I would have felt very overwhelmed at this.
As for suggesting that she leaves the baby and goes home to rest? Really? Seriously?

Before I read your op, I was bristling with rage at the title. It is not your son's wife and your grandchild, it is your daughter in law and her child
Do not try to get your son on your side, that is mil from hell territory.

Oh, and YABU, in case you didn't guess.

pollyblue Wed 16-Jan-13 20:46:39

Assuming the baby has recently arrived, YABU

Why on earth would you expect your DIL to leave her baby at a party with you and go home alone?

And WHY did your son's GF HAVE to go with you when you first visited the baby?

polkadotsrock Wed 16-Jan-13 20:46:41

I'm seeing a lot of 'is this a reverse Aibu' right now and I'm a little confused- why do people do that??

This HAS to be a reverse - if not OP you need to remember it's not all about YOU any more.

BACK OFF - or you will alienate her forever.

Mytimewillcome Wed 16-Jan-13 20:47:09

Totally with the wife and I think you'll find that most people on Mumsnet will be! We've all been in the situation with a pushy MIL not respecting the DILs fragile new family. You need to respect her wishes and realise that your needs don't come first! You will have to learn boundaries otherwise you will not see your grandchild. You have been warned!

DoodleAlley Wed 16-Jan-13 20:47:11

Borrow = horror

polkadotsrock Wed 16-Jan-13 20:47:15

Reverse I mean, not why do people say it

Vodkapleasenurse Wed 16-Jan-13 20:47:34

YABU
2 visitors at a time is very sensible request, surely as a mother yourself you must remember how overwhelming the first few days of motherhood are, not to mention exhausting.
A family party with a newborn would have been my idea of hell, as a new mum you can feel quite protective of your newborn and the thought of lots of people passing my newborn around in a party environment would have upset me.
I think you seriously need to back off a bit and give them some space , if you continue to be so overbearing it will be you who looses out in the end as your daughter in law will probably try to keep her distance.

TheDeadlyDonkey Wed 16-Jan-13 20:47:56

God, how stupid to fall for a reverse AIBU!

riverboat Wed 16-Jan-13 20:48:22

polkadot - because the situation described in the OP seems so OBVIOUSLY unreasonable that it's hard to see why anyone would post asking if it was so. So it seems like the post is actually an "opposite" post, made by the daughter in law about her mother, but written from the mother's point of view, often in order to get more objective responses.

Lilithmoon Wed 16-Jan-13 20:48:55

YABVU unless this is reverse in which case YANBU confused.

riverboat Wed 16-Jan-13 20:49:09

mother in law, not mother

balia Wed 16-Jan-13 20:49:19

I know! Go round unannounced and make lots of helpful comments about her poor parenting and lack of personal grooming. Make sure to warn her that son will be justified in 'looking elsewhere' if she doesn't make more effort with him; ask what she is planning for his tea, listen to the answer, then sniff. Make sure you give her the benefit of your experience by telling her - and you might have to do this LOUDLY to make sure she can hear over the baby crying - that due to your superior parenting skills, her DH was weaned, walking and potty trained by now.

Then offer to babysit, overnight, because you don't think she can cope. That should sort everything. In fact I'm sure you've thought of it yourself.

onedev Wed 16-Jan-13 20:49:36

I can understand wanting a photo of your DH & sons & new grandchild altogether, however the girlfriend doesn't need to be there.

Everything else sounds unreasonable on your part (or MIL if reversed!).

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 16-Jan-13 20:49:40

I think you can wait a few months for your photos, no??

Have a bit of respect for the mum.

(Unless this is a reverse, in which case she is BVU!!)

DarwinGirl Wed 16-Jan-13 20:49:51

Come on! You're surprised that your DIL doesn't want to go to a big family party with her newborn baby? And surprised she doesn't want to leave him behind so that she can go home and rest? It's madness to expect a new mum to do this. Can't you remember what it was like to have your first child? How tiring and emotional and overwhelming it is? You shouldn't expect this of her and you certainly shouldn't take it personally. I can't imagine that many new mums would be up for lots of visitors at once or family parties soon in the early weeks when you are exhausted and adjusting to life with a newborn. It is beyond crazy to not expect her to want to take her home with her from the party. Cut her some slack.

Portofino Wed 16-Jan-13 20:50:58

SON'S WIFE and MY grandchild says a lot when the new mother should be the MOST important thing here.

nilbyname Wed 16-Jan-13 20:53:30

<<<<<<<<does a slow clap>>>>>>>>

Well done op this is either

reverse AIBU
1st and last post

Will report myself.

That is all.

HecateWhoopass Wed 16-Jan-13 20:56:28

If you want to be a part of your grandchild's life, you had better change your attitude. Your daughter in law is not the incubator for your grandchild. How she feels matters.

It doesn't hurt you in any way to back off for a bit and not overwhelm them with lots of people.

It will damage your relationship for good if you try to bully them into giving in to you.

And, fwiw - your son should not be being so disloyal to his wife as to agree with you behind her back. That's not nice and I am sure you brought him up better than that. I am sure you would not have appreciated your own husband doing that to you.

Spuddybean Wed 16-Jan-13 21:00:47

How strange. If this isn't reverse...

So your need for a photograph (which can easily be taken in a months time with no loss) trumps your son and dils needs? (your son was also saying no too - it may be dils choice but he is choosing to back her up).

I have a 4mo and i was totally overwhelmed when i got home. The thought of MIL insisting on 4 people being here just so she can take a picture of 'her boys' (channeling Peggy Mitchell a bit there btw) is ridiculous. And just the suggestion on leaving my tiny baby at a party makes me run cold, and for what? so MIL can show off being a Grandmother.

It's not all about you, in fact it's not even a bit about you at the moment. And you don't need to be included in everything from the very beginning.

floweryblue Wed 16-Jan-13 21:01:55

I think the parents' wishes have to be paramount, especially the mother in the early days after giving birth.

I was desperate to see my nephew when he was born, first baby in our family since his mum was born 30+ years ago, but Sis asked me to wait till she was ready. I respected that she might not be up to seeing her sis/best friend (me), till she was ready. As it turned out, I think DP and I saw him at one day old.

I think YABU to expect your DiL to be jumping up and down with joy at the thought of a big family party right now.

Maryz Wed 16-Jan-13 21:02:01

Just marking my place here [hopeful]

Obviously YANBU assuming the "baby" is over a year old

suburbophobe Wed 16-Jan-13 21:03:35

I feel for your DIL. Your son is great to be protecting his new family.

You sound selfish and overbearing frankly.

O.k. I understand about wanting the photos - but then again, why? Those can be taken anytime in the future.

And why on earth does DS2's girlfriend have to tag along? What's it got to do with her? Doesn't she have a home to go to?

You need to back off if you want to have a long and wonderful relationship with your grandchild(ren) and their mums and dads (yes, your own children/in-laws).

Thing is once your children leave home and become independent they are totally in their right to make their own life and have their own boundaries.

Sadly, many people don't "get it".

littlemisssunny Wed 16-Jan-13 21:04:01

If you are the mil yabu if you are the daughter in law YANBU but please don't do reverse Aibu it confuses me!

Vagaceratops Wed 16-Jan-13 21:05:00

How old is the baby.

If this isnt a reverse AIBU you are a little bit nutty and quite controlling.

If this isn't a reverse , then YABVU!

Why couldn't your son and GF visit separately to you and your husband?

Do you really not understand why she wouldn't want to leave a newborn at a party ?

CatsRule Wed 16-Jan-13 21:07:18

Yabu!

You are not only a mil you are a mother too....but NOT to your grandchild though!

Surely you must remember how it feels to have a tiny baby that everyone feels entitlement to be envolved with...family or not...sometimes family are the worst offenders for not understanding.

You are behaving like a horrible mil if your post is true and this is not a reverse aibu.

Why would any sane and reasonable woman, mil or mother expect a mother to go to a party, want to be overwhelmed or leave her baby?? New parents need space. I should know...my vile mil has ruined the first 10 months of my sons life for me with her constant demands and bitching.

If you care for that baby, your son and dil you will allow them to settle in as a family. And most important you will not come between baby and mother!

"son's wife"
"my grandchild"
"my boys"

Are you the Centre of the Universe, OP?

If not, YABU. Very.
You need to seriously think about what you want your relationship with your GC to be, because the way you are going about it, you may not have one at all.

If this is a reverse AIBU, you are not.

LynetteScavo Wed 16-Jan-13 21:08:04

Your sons wife is your DIL...but obviously this is a reverse.

Anyway, the MIL is BU.

Greensleeves Wed 16-Jan-13 21:08:14

There's more than a whiff of my mother about this OP <shudder> she too was self-absorbed, arrogant and controlling

we ended up completely estranged and she hasn't seen my sons for nearly 7 years

the last communication I had with her was a rude, overbearing letter demanding "formal access" to her grandchildren and threatening legal action

it didn't touch the sides when it entered the bin I can assure you

be warned!

If you want to be a part of your grandchild's life, you had better change your attitude. Your daughter in law is not the incubator for your grandchild. How she feels matters

What Hecate said ^

Drizzleit Wed 16-Jan-13 21:09:47

Your poor dil! Why not remember what it was like having your first and try and be supportive? Though this has to be a reverse AIBU, I can't believe anyone would post this seriously thinking they were in the right...

CabbageLeaves Wed 16-Jan-13 21:09:56

This has got to be a reverse AIBU. No one would lack such insight to see the problem was them?

Bobyan Wed 16-Jan-13 21:10:59

Mmm,maybe you should try Gransnet Op...

Belmo Wed 16-Jan-13 21:13:07

I wish I'd been more assertive when my DD was born, well done your DIL I reckon.

Viviennemary Wed 16-Jan-13 21:13:22

I know you are keen to see a lot of the baby. But really you should back of for a bit. You have years in front of you to enjoy your grandchild and no point in having this sort of disagreements over nothing very much.

marriedinwhite Wed 16-Jan-13 21:14:35

Don't you remember how tired and worn out you were with a newborn? I'm with your dil on this. It isn't for you to call the shots but to respect the very reasonable requests of others.

Frenchspeak Wed 16-Jan-13 21:14:49

Just want to say as well that I am the grandmother, even if some think otherwise. I wanted to get other peoples viewpoints so I can try and keep things happy within my family. Don’t want confrontation.

Thanks for the replies. I will try and answer and questions, sorry if I miss any.

Yes she is my first grandchild and is 6 weeks. But the party was going to be in a couple of weeks, depending on when family can make it.

I think it’s unfair for me to be expected to not have an opinion or say on anything. I love my family, why shouldn’t I want to spend as much time as possible with them. Seems like I’m expected to just go along with whatever she says.

With regards to my other son’s girlfriend. They have been together for about 6 years, longer than my son and his wife have been. So it’s not like she’s just turned up.

The reason i suggested she only come to the party for a couple of hours was because she said it would be too tiring. So I thought that would be a solution, just come for a bit then go and rest.

Yfronts Wed 16-Jan-13 21:16:57

Well obviously the most important thing is the wife bonding with the child and not feeling overwhelmed with people/events. What you need is obviously secondary to their needs. The best thing you can do is be considerate and listen to what they need/how you can support them.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 16-Jan-13 21:17:04

Seems like I’m expected to just go along with whatever she says.

Yup

nilbyname Wed 16-Jan-13 21:17:46

Yes come for a bit then go home with her newborn and rest.

I think that would be the best solution.

NatashaBee Wed 16-Jan-13 21:18:04

Even the title of your thread got my back up. Either you are the MIL from hell or you're the daughter in law doing a reverse AIBU (and if that's the case, you have my utmost sympathy - your MIL sounds like a nightmare!!!)

dinkystinky Wed 16-Jan-13 21:20:07

You are being v unreasonable OP - I could barely leave the house for 2 months after DS1 was born and a family party would have been hellish!
You need to respect your son and DIL and leave them be. There will be plenty of time for photos and parties and family time in the future.

Doingakatereddy Wed 16-Jan-13 21:20:10

You sound like my mother, except she rounded off her demands for baby to be part if her social entertaining with the classic phrase 'you selfish f'ing bitch' when I refused.

I haven't spoken to my mother in 3 years, be very very careful you don't have the same fate. Back off.

jamdonut Wed 16-Jan-13 21:20:27

I found it odd you said "son's wife" and not "my daughter-in-law". That speaks volumes, I think.

(I also think this is a reverse AIBU.)

Don't get why you needed a picture of other son holding the baby??? Its not his! Can understand having your husband and the baby's dad in a picture as a generational thing.

And why did the girlfriend need to come too? Why didn't she and other son go at another time, together?

I think (if the OP is for real) you need to back off, and understand that although this is your grandchild,the baby's PARENTS make the decisions. They are their own family unit now. You,I am afraid ,now take at least second place.

squeakytoy Wed 16-Jan-13 21:20:52

"I think it’s unfair for me to be expected to not have an opinion or say on anything."

You can have as much opinion as you like.. it doesnt mean anyone should have to take any notice though!

You are at risk of turning yourself into the pushy grandmother from hell, and are likely to find yourself kept at arms length if you carry on with that attitude.

And yes, you are expected to go along with what they say, it is their baby, not yours!

NatashaBee Wed 16-Jan-13 21:21:06

Seems like I’m expected to just go along with whatever she says.

Yes, that's absolutely right, because she is the child's mother. You've had your turn at raising children, now let her raise hers in the way she sees fit.

CunningPlan Wed 16-Jan-13 21:21:30

OP you have obviously forgotten the overwhelming newborn stage. You DO NOT have any say in what happens. Why do you think you are entitled to an opinion in this situation?

Greensleeves Wed 16-Jan-13 21:21:37

You're not listening. Stop making the passive-aggressive remarks about not being allowed an opinion. It's not about opinions, it's about you having some respect for your DIL as the mother of your grandchild. Grandmother is not the same as mother. This is not your second chance, it's a new young family and you should be wanting to support and protect them, not create unhappiness by pushing yourself and your wants forward.

You're not alpha female in your son and DIL'd family. Get used to it!

Frenchspeak Wed 16-Jan-13 21:21:48

There is no point having a party if she's going to take baby home after a couple of hours. Family will be coming to see my son and grandchild.

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn Wed 16-Jan-13 21:21:48

Think back to when you had your sons OP, did you want you MIL hanging round all the time?

You've had your babies, let your DIL have her time the way she wants.

pollyblue Wed 16-Jan-13 21:22:06

but you expected her to go to the party then leave, and also leave her baby behind with you. I wouldn't have done that with my dds when they were just 2 months old.

Of course you're allowed an opinion but as others have pointed out, this is not your child, but your grandchild. Your DIL is the mother and she gets to make the final decisions, not you.

TBH it does sound like you're deliberately making things difficult.

MrsHuxtable Wed 16-Jan-13 21:22:12

Oh God,
you sound like my MIL when DD was born a year ago. Let's just say neither DH nor I are speaking to her anymore, she hasn't seen her first grandchild in over half a year and won't be in the future if she doesn't make some drastic changes. And no, she's not invited to DD's 1st birthday party!

Keep going the way you are, OP, and that will be you not far down the line.

Spuddybean Wed 16-Jan-13 21:22:15

What do you think should happen then if not to just go along with whatever she says? Genuinely curious into how much input you think you should have?

My exFIL once said to me when i said something about dc he didn't agree with 'well as gps we would have something to say about that and would expect to have a say in how the dc are raised'. I laughed. What rights do you think you actually have/should have? apart from visits when it suits your son and dil.

Sabriel Wed 16-Jan-13 21:23:22

What everyone else said.

And I really don't get the photo thing. I know this may sound silly, but i wanted to take photos of my husband, and both sons holding the baby. Yes it does sound very silly. This was the sort of thing my MIL did at every visit. It got to the point that I wanted to move far far away rather than have to put up with her anymore. There is no way on earth either of my BILs would have been holding my PFB for a photo immediately after birth.

She seems to forget that we are her child’s family and need to be included. You seem to have forgotten that this is her child, and not yours.

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn Wed 16-Jan-13 21:23:26

"Family will be coming to see my son and grandchild"

So once again your DIL gets left out of the equation? Wow.

squeakytoy Wed 16-Jan-13 21:23:44

"There is no point having a party if she's going to take baby home after a couple of hours. Family will be coming to see my son and grandchild"

oh, so they wont be coming to see her then? wow, you really do sound a nasty piece of work..

dinkystinky Wed 16-Jan-13 21:23:50

Don't have a party then Op - let THEM have one when they are good and ready.

LtEveDallas Wed 16-Jan-13 21:23:58

OP, this child may be your grandchild - but it's your sons CHILD. It is up to him and his wife (the child's MOTHER) to do what they want with THEIR CHILD.

You have children. You have had 'your turn'. This is about them, NOT YOU.

Leave them to parent, visit, love their child as they see fit. It is not your choice.

HecateWhoopass Wed 16-Jan-13 21:24:11

Yes. At this point that is EXACTLY what you are supposed to do.

Don't try to assert yourself as head of this extended family. You will lose.

She has just pushed a person out of her body. Leave her alone. She's not the vessel that delivered your child. she is the mother of her child. Your grandchild.

Your relationship will be better if you back off a bit, stop making it about you and what you want and photos of your sons holding your grandchild and remember the person who just delivered this new member of the family!

I realise it's a fair few years since you had a newborn, so you may have forgotten how exhausted you are. How sore you are. How overwhelmed you are. The lochia gushing out of you...

You can wait until she has settled into it a bit, surely to god.

Samnella Wed 16-Jan-13 21:25:41

Sorry OP but I think YABU. You are the gran not the mother and need to understand your place in the pecking order. I think you just need to back off and give them a bit of a space. They are tired. Those first 6 weeks are hideous and she just wants to nest a bit with her own family - yes your DS, DIL and DGC are a family in their own right. I would find that hard to get my head round I think but that's what this really comes down to.

Just back off and when you do make plans make sure she is fully consulted and included. That wouldn't be a family party where its suggested she leave her new-born baby to rest. The message to her will be 'thank you incubator you may leave now'.

My mum is so good at all this. She told me once she sees her job as Gran and MIL to have a zip over her mouth wink. She never criticises or comments and always respects what we want.

Your time will come to get more involved.

Congratulations on the grandchild.

nilbyname Wed 16-Jan-13 21:25:47

There is no point having a party if she's going to take baby home after a couple of hours. Family will be coming to see my son and grandchild

There you are then, you have it in a nutshell. You are completely disinterested in your DIL and her needs with her newborn baby.

You sound deranged and selfish. HTH.

pollyblue Wed 16-Jan-13 21:25:49

Family will be coming to see my son and grandchild

so they won't be coming to see your DIL too - who is part of your family and the childs mother?

bloody hell

I almost feel the need to ring my MIL and tell her I love her. Almost. I cannot even begin to tell you how unreasonable you are.

Schnarkle Wed 16-Jan-13 21:27:02

Naturally your Dil should just hand over her baby to you, to do as you see fit. I expect your own mother / mother in law did the same yes?

Cop ON!

I think the new Mom may be being a bit precious, but wouldn't say anything to her, it's her first time being a Mom. At 4 days I had all the family over and we sat and drank tea and I nursed, at 2 weeks I went to a friends baby shower with the baby, MIL came with me so I had extra hands, and had a brilliant time. Some Moms like to hole up at home and not see anyone, different folks and all that.
I'd wait a few more weeks and then invite her round for tea, then you can take pictures of the whole family, not forgetting the bay's actual mother, so she doesn't feel like you see her as some sort of baby factory milk producer.
If she makes excuses and won't visit then with her Dh, then you are up the creek Grandma, as she wants it all her way and doesn't give a crap about what the rest of her new family want. I wouldn't turn it into a big fight though as you will not win, you'll just have to leave them to get on with it.

LtEveDallas Wed 16-Jan-13 21:27:19

There is no point having a party if she's going to take baby home after a couple of hours. Family will be coming to see my son and grandchild

No, family will be coming to see your son and HIS family, not yours. They are their own unit now, and if you carry on like this you will never be a part of it.

5madthings Wed 16-Jan-13 21:27:40

Yabvu.

Your son and his girlfriend could visit desperately.

You dil may well not be feeling up to party with lots if relatives, if she has said she will come for a few hours and then go home I think that is perfectly reasonable of her and if course she will take her newborn baby home with her. Family will get to see him and then mum and baby can go before they get too tired and before baby gets over stimulated.

FeltOverlooked Wed 16-Jan-13 21:27:51

OK, for a start, surely they are there to see your son, DIL and grandchild. They are a family now.

Secondly, two hours is plenty, how much new-born do they need to see? Or wait till the baby is older and the baby and mother can stay longer.

It is absolutely not on to suggest that DIL leave an eight-week-old baby at a party so it can be shown off.

My MIL played all these games. Luckily not to me, but to my SIL. I thank the lord that my SIL broke her in for me.

When I had my first-born, I set my sister up as gatekeeper and we not only had a limit on guests but we would only see them on Tuesdays, Thursdays or Saturdays. I had a traumatic birth, was very unwell and weak still, and it was what I needed. Sometimes you need to do these things.

CunningPlan Wed 16-Jan-13 21:28:09

Family will be coming to see my son and grandchild.

But not your DIL hmm

I sense a history here.

Seriously, get a grip. You have no right to make any demands on DIL, your son or the baby and it is unfair of you to put your son in a position where he has to choose between you. I'm afraid to say that you are going to be very hurt when he chooses them.

If you want up be estranged from them, you are going the right way about it. If you were my MIL, I would never forgive you for being so demanding.

Spuddybean Wed 16-Jan-13 21:28:15

Wow. What is DIL to you. Just a necessary inconvenience to furnish you with gc's? You are not important in this equation. You are being seriously creepy. I rarely say things like this, but i am so shocked by your expectation to be in charge.

jamdonut Wed 16-Jan-13 21:28:21

it took me so long to type my previous comment out, I now have some of my questions answered!!

Can I add....you may love your family, and want to spend time with them,but THEY are now a family and want to spend time together, without demands being put on them. Do you really need to have a 'party'? That just sounds like wanting to showcase the baby!

I would have hated it if my MIL had done that to me. As it was, she insisted me and DH go on a journey to Scotland with her and FIL to see DH's brother when my DS1 was 3 months old! As much as I like him and his family, I did not have as great a time as she envisaged.

Gryffindor Wed 16-Jan-13 21:28:23

She is being extremely reasonable offering to bring the baby to your party for a couple of hours. Incidentally that is more than enough time for the family to meet DGC, unless you are expecting them to stay late into the night? YAB utterly U.

nilbyname Wed 16-Jan-13 21:29:43

shnarkle I love cop on! grin

CheeseStrawWars Wed 16-Jan-13 21:29:43

"we are her child’s family" - err, her child's family is it's mum, dad, and siblings if any should follow. You're the child's extended family, i.e. at one remove.

LiveItUp Wed 16-Jan-13 21:30:04

YABVU (assuming not a reverse).

Not your baby this time. You've had and raised yours. You take a supporting role now. Get used to it or get cut out.

If this is a reverse - your MIL sounds like a total pushy nightmare. Enforce those boundaries, relaxing them only when she comes to terms with her new role as supporting grandparent and shows more respect for you.

Why do so many Mums want to hang on to their sons rather than enjoy seeing their independence as they establish their own families. I hope to god I don't become like that when my DS's grow up and start their own families. Thankfully I have an amazing MIL whose example I shall try and follow smile

bootsycollins Wed 16-Jan-13 21:30:07

Seriously French take these comments on board, think about it.

Fairylea Wed 16-Jan-13 21:30:12

An 8 week old baby isn't a toy to show off to family.

A lot of people, noise and no mummy willbe very stressful for a new baby. You are being selfish.

I suggest you try and build bridges with your DAUGHTER IN LAW and let her decide how and when you get to see HER baby.

Hope that helps.

CatsRule Wed 16-Jan-13 21:30:38

Family will be coming to see my son and grandchild

That speaks volumes!

You sound just like my vile mil!

Let me say this very clearly and sorry if this sounds nasty but if you don't get the message now you will lose your son and grandchild forever. Stop being a complete bitch. It's not about you. You are not the centre of the universe. It's wonderful you have a granddaughter but the parents get to make the decisions and you have to go along with those rules and you do not under any circumstances get to push the mother out of the picture which is what you are blatantly trying to do.

Read your posts back, think about what you have said. You clearly love your sons - think about how you would have felt if you would have been expected to leave them at a family party without you at only 8 weeks old.

Please don't wreck your family because you are blinkered by your own selfishness. Think about your DIL and gc.

SomeKindOfDeliciousBiscuit Wed 16-Jan-13 21:31:07

Ultimately the pecking order has changed.

Mum outranks grandma. And at eight weeks old your dIL may still be bleeding and in pain. I was, and I wasn't telling my mil all the details of my nethers either. You should still be being careful about not staying too long when you visit, never mind organising a party. This isn't about your family, it's about hers and your son's. if this party happened you would be an invitee (an important one) and not an organiser. Give it six months, they might do it in the form of a christening.

And anyway, from previous years....
Wife outranks mum (sorry, true but often not acknowledged by mums - bear in mind what each role contributes to the son on a day to day basis as an adult and you've got your answer)

Try to work it through in your head for a bit before you speak to them. You are clearly bothered to have posted. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Frenchspeak, I hope you can find the inner calm and self-reflection to really listen to what all these posts are telling you.
This baby is NOT your baby.
The parents call the shots.
You can have all the opinion in the world, but you do not have to voice them. And they do not have to agree with them.

Why on earth can the new family not decide for themselves when and if to have a party for their extended family? How about your DiL's family?

Back off. And do it gracefully. If you don't, I fear, you'll lose out.

bran Wed 16-Jan-13 21:32:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Samvet Wed 16-Jan-13 21:33:36

Frenchspeak - take some advice from this thread. Carry on as you are and you will see less and less of your son and grandchild. You need to get into your head that SHE is the priority for your son now NOT you. He will always choose her over you. Push her and piss her off and lose them all. Back off. She is his family now.
Try and help, try and remember that when you had a 8 week old baby maybe you were knackered and finding it hard and didn;t want to go to a party with people you don't know well. If she is bfing she is probably worried about doing that at a party too.
Play this wrong and you are cutting off your nose etc etc
I speak as the DIL - and we see my MIL once a year.

NaturalBaby Wed 16-Jan-13 21:33:37

It may be your grandchild but your 'sons wife' is the mother. It's HER BABY, not yours. Do you not remember what it felt like to give birth and be awash with hormones? It takes 6 months to recover from pregnancy, not a couple of hours.

Give her a break and try to show some understanding. You come across as very possessive - my MIL was like this and it made me pull right back and avoid her, and made me even more possessive of my own baby.

DumSpiroSpero Wed 16-Jan-13 21:33:40

Frankly you sound like a vile, self-obsessed, controlling, bossy nightmare, and if you were my MIL I wouldn't want you within 10 feet of me ever let alone within 6 weeks of giving birth.

Wind your neck in, back off and get yourself a life hobby ffs.

ivykaty44 Wed 16-Jan-13 21:33:56

surely there is every point in have a party for family to get together and be happy - the baby can come along for a half hour or so and then go home - but that doesn't mean you can't have a party to celebrate a new life and a new family member.

The baby wouldn't do anything any way but sleep and poo, the dil needs to be your first concern and when you make your dil your first concern you will find it is like a magic key wink

Roastbeefandyorkshires Wed 16-Jan-13 21:34:25

Oh dear... and I thought my mil was overbearing

elizaregina Wed 16-Jan-13 21:35:18

Agree pom bears with comment page 1 and we dont even know in truth how this mil is with her dil!!! Does she like her DH Db GF?

Expecting a NB to be left behind at a party!!!

CloudsAndTrees Wed 16-Jan-13 21:35:37

I'm going to be the lone voice, but I think the DIL is being a bit selfish. Of course her feelings matter, but if she cares about her husbands family, and his mother, then you would think she would want them to share in the happiness that is having a new baby into a loving family.

She only wants to see two people at a time? She can't manage to be out for more than a couple of hours (or at all!) when the baby is 8 weeks old? She sounds like a loon to me. If it weren't for the fact that she planned this before the baby was born I'd think she had PND. Unless she is suffering depression, there is no reason why she couldn't let her husbands family share in some of the joy of such a special time for all of them. It sounds like she's just being difficult for the sake of it.

And I honestly can't understand so many of these posts making out that OP is some kind of a freakish bitch for wanting to see her newborn grandchild and have a little family time. If she wasn't interested she would get just as much abuse. MN is pathetic when it comes to MILs. I usually don't have much sympathy for MILs on AIBU threads about them, but her we just have a mother whose son has had a baby, she completely reasonably wants to see her (small) family all together and she gets this kind of a slating. Pathetic hmm

steben Wed 16-Jan-13 21:35:55

If this isn't a reverse then to add to the chorus of aibus I think the title of this thread speaks volumes - your son and dil have obv made this decision to do what they feel is right and appropriate for their new family together - to but blame on her and her alone is pretty off. If you don't put a stop to this behaviour now I think you could miss out on many other photo opportunities with your family. Give them space it's early days in another few months they may be dying to have a party/hand her over for a break!

HildaOgden Wed 16-Jan-13 21:35:58

It's threads like these that make me glad I married an orphan smile.

You're being an over-bearing mother in law,OP.You'd had 6 weeks of experience being a Grandmother,I think you should re-think your strategy if you want to avoid being cast at the Evil Mother-in-Law.

You had your turn to raise your babies as you saw fit,now back off and leave both your Son and Daughter in Law to do the same.

Mytimewillcome Wed 16-Jan-13 21:36:08

I'm afraid with your attitude you have lost your grandchild already. You sound like my MIL and she went in like a bull in a china shop as well. And it didn't get her anywhere.

Things are going to stay the same because you aren't important here. You are going to have to learn that.

This is going to be a deluge of opinion not going your way! I would say try Gransnet but I would hope that you would get a similar response. grin

I'm glad.

TheNebulousBoojum Wed 16-Jan-13 21:36:31

The fact that so many posters thought that it must be a reverse AIBU speaks volumes as to the ridiculousness of your attitude.
I would be keeping my distance too, if I had a MIL like you. Your prime concern should be ensuring that the new mother, baby and father have as stress-free and easy a time as possible, without a demanding, egocentric madam breathing down their necks whittering about her expectations of what is acceptable behaviour.
I hope your son continues to make nice, placating noises at you whilst supporting his wife.

brainonastick Wed 16-Jan-13 21:37:13

Really? Just.... really?

How long have you been on MN OP?

Have you learnt nothing from that time?

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Wed 16-Jan-13 21:37:46

YAbu. Congratulations on becoming a gran. You are clearly very excited and full of plans for this lovely new life.

However, as my MIL, who is a saint btw, would tell you, you are going to lose access to your grandchild if you go on about it in this manner.

My MIL's DCs maried late so she was the last in her circle of friends to have GC/DiL. She saw her friends put their oar into their children's relationships, especially when the GCs arrived, because it was the way it was done before.

Well, within a few years, most of friends were kept away from the GCs and contact diminished.

A baby is not just for Christmas, it is for life. Everyone will have plenty of time to see the baby.

Pictures will do until the happy parents are ready to come and show their lovely baby in person.

You are family, of course and there will be lots of great things to do with your GCs, but try to come from a "how can I help" angle rather than "I know better" one.

My MIL does this, and God knows that she must have bitten her tongue many, many times but as a result, she is very much part of my children's lives.

rubyslippers Wed 16-Jan-13 21:38:27

The OP says she's always had a tricky relationship with the DIL

All i can say is that you will end up having no relationship with her, your son or grandchild if you continue to behave as you are

you sound like a plastic grandparent - got to have the photos, a party for your grandchild but actually not giving a damn about your DIL or the actual needs of your son's family

as long as you appear to be a devoted grandma

no wonder you don't get along with your DIL

HildaOgden Wed 16-Jan-13 21:39:00

I'm interested in what other ways you found her difficult before this?I'm guessing there is a bad history between you,and both she and your son have decided to put their foot down now.

No way would I be going to a party my Mil had organised to show off my newborn!

You sound very entitled. My own mother wouldn't expect me to go along with her plans.

What if yr DiL wanted to organise her own "showing off" party (which is generally what christenings/naming ceremonies are IMHO)? This is your grandchild, you have already done your children, let your DIL and your son do their child.

BiBiBroccoli Wed 16-Jan-13 21:39:26

Arf. I think you might actually be my mother in law grin If you are then no, you still cannot take DD to get her ears pierced and no, you cannot call her by the name you wanted me to call her.

YABU and you will lose your son and grandchild if you don't have a word with yourself <stern face>

FeltOverlooked Wed 16-Jan-13 21:40:26

CloudsAndTrees, I would maybe agree with you if the post were worded differently. But the whole MY son, mother of MY grandchild, etc, tone led me (and I think many others) to a different conclusion.

If it was a post looking for a solution - I feel hurt, I don't understand, how could I play this moving forward, I love this new baby so much and I don't want to get it wrong - people would also have been different.

Two hours at a party is plenty. The whole "if it is only two hours, then there is no point" thing is just petulant.

ChuffMuffin Wed 16-Jan-13 21:41:31

I feel sad and sorry for your son & DIL, sorry, son's wife. sad

Sweet Jesus, are you for real then? It is NOT YOUR PLACE to arrange a party for all of the family to come and view your trophy grandchild. Not unless your daughter in law asks you to do so. If family want to see the baby they can call your daughter in law and arrange a nice little visit.

And yes, you have to go along with what your son and daughter in law want.

If you want to be the mother in law from hell, carry on and ignore our views. Don't be surprised when you see your grandchild less and less though, and when your son resents you causing problems.

JustFabulous Wed 16-Jan-13 21:43:03

OP, a bit of advice,

the baby is NOT YOURS.

You shoud be worshipping the ground your DIL walks on and sending daily chocolate hampers, M & S food deliveries and diamonds at least once a week for bearing your grandchild. Still HER baby though.

I am just rereading your OP; you 'get on ok' with your DiL but 'find her difficult'. Do you think she finds you easy to get on with?
Is there a prior history that made her set such a rigid rule: only 2 visitors at a time?

In my family it is my very lovely own mother who justifies every unwanted interference with 'but I love you' 'I am doing this out of love' - unwanted 'help' is not help, but trying to gain control, which is what you are doing. I have frequently been glad to live in a different country from my mum which has improved our relationship no end.

CloudsAndTrees, yes, I think you are a lone voice. I luff my MiL btw, she is far less emotionally needy and manipulating than my own.

Frenchspeak Wed 16-Jan-13 21:44:36

What exactly is wrong with wanting a photo of my son holding his niece? Surely that’s normal.

And I do remember when I had my children. I certainly did not exclude my mother in law. Her and my father in law always had a say. I wouldn’t have dreamt of saying ‘this is my child; you have to do it my way’. It seems like a threat, if I don’t agree then I lose out on seeing my grandchild.

My other son and his girlfriend live in a different part of the country so they came to stay with us so they could visit baby. They don’t have a car so couldn’t visit on their own.

And of course family would see my d-i-l. But she’s not the most talkative of people so it’s not like she would be entertaining everyone. She’s fairly shy around us. Also, I would be the organiser of the party. It was going to be at my house and obviously I would need to contact everyone about attending.

HecateWhoopass Wed 16-Jan-13 21:45:10

Perhaps if she wasn't clearly mentally shoving her daughter in law out of the picture, Clouds.

I wanted to see the baby with my husband and other son - See the baby. Not see her daughter in law or anything?
I couldn’t see my boys all together. - Focus on her boys
i wanted to take photos of my husband, and both sons holding the baby. - nothing about wanting photos of her daughter in law
Family will be coming to see my son and grandchild.- but not her daughter in law, evidently.

Everything about the way she posts screams that her daughter in law is irrelevant here. Even when she says she understands, it is worded in a way that makes it clear she thinks her daughter in law is unreasonable. What she sees is that her family is her sons and her husband and not her daughter in law. Her daughter in law barely features. Apparently family aren't even coming to see her at the party anyway!

That is coming through loud and clear and that is what people are reacting to.

Sometimes, the way you word things says more than you meant it to.

This thread is making me itch. it's like seeing the other side from my MIL when we had our first baby and she couldn't get it through her thick skull that she wasn't in charge, or that I was an important part of her grandchild's life hmm

Things are okay now, but I could never be close with her due to her boundary issues, and both her son and myself still resent her actions and attitude.

amistillsexy Wed 16-Jan-13 21:46:01

It sounds as though you favour your other son, and would rather he and his girlfriend of six years were having this baby. Why else would you think that he and his girlfriend have any place at your DIL's bedside the day she's given birth, or need to be in any photos of the new baby? At that time, it's invited (by the mother) guests only.

If I were your DIL, I'd run a mile, taking your grandchild my baby and your son my husband with me. You obviously have no consideration for her feelings whatsoever, and she knows it.
She is currently strong enough to rebuff your most controlling behaviours, but it will be getting more and more stressful for her. It will put more and more pressure on the relationship between your son and his wife, since he will increasingly feel that he has to mediate between you both, and will feel torn between your conflicting needs. He chose her to be his wife, and to have a child with, not you. He will (if he has anything about him) choose her over you if you continue with this type of attitude.

At the moment, you seem to feel you can do no wrong and your DIL is just an unfortunate necessity in getting an adddition to YOUR family. I predict (and hope, for their sakes) you will soon find out that it is SHE who holds all the cards, and you will be pushed further and further out of their lives.

NonnoMum Wed 16-Jan-13 21:46:53

I don't normally promote amazon but here

Send them flowers
Cook them a meal
offer to take their laundry to the launderette
do their ironing
bake them a cake
Offer lifts to the baby weigh in/drs/registrars

And smile and step back...

Hope that helps.

ihearsounds Wed 16-Jan-13 21:46:57

Omg. Why is all about you. You sound very selfish. It's not fair, I cannot do what I want, boohoo.

Good on your Dil. She has boundaries and is sticking to them and isn't being pushed over by a self involved selfish mil. Good on her for saying no more than 2 visitors. Not like it's just you that she is doing this with, its everyone.. Family or not. And as for arranging a party for when your gc is very young is insane. Sleep ness nights. Being exhausted. A bit sore. Feeling generally like shit. No wonder she's not up to it... Think less about yourself and more about other people. If other people in your family want to see the baby, they can arrange with them to go and see them.

And oh, but you wanted to have a pic of your two sons with baby, erm, not hard to figure that one out. She takes the pic of them. Unless of course you are that controlling that you believe you are the only person capable of taking pictures.

Carry on as you are, being pushy and over bearing and chances are visits will be yearly if your lucky.

"What exactly is wrong with wanting a photo of my son holding his niece?"

Nothing. The problem is you want it all your way, and you're not the one who's just given birth to a newborn and is trying to bond with her new child. (6 weeks is very young).

Ask your other son to get a photo of him with the baby when he visits your daughter in law SEPARATELY to you.

brainonastick Wed 16-Jan-13 21:47:42

Can you answer my question OP? How long have you been on MN if you are a name-changer?

HecateWhoopass Wed 16-Jan-13 21:47:57

What do you want, french?

do you want to win this battle you seem to think is happening here with your daughter in law or do you want to have a good relationship with your daughter in law and ensure that you are a well loved member of their extended family?

Because you can't have both.

You do sound like you are an overpowering personality and in the interests of harmony - you're going to need to back off a bit.

Visionsofj0hanna Wed 16-Jan-13 21:48:11

Are you my MIL?! Be warned, my MIL was exactly like this and made the first few months so stressful it makes me not want to include her at all. Give the poor woman some space with her new family.

rubyslippers Wed 16-Jan-13 21:48:16

you could organise a party but i'm betting your star attraction wouldn't come

TheNebulousBoojum Wed 16-Jan-13 21:48:25

'But she’s not the most talkative of people so it’s not like she would be entertaining everyone. She’s fairly shy around us. Also, I would be the organiser of the party. It was going to be at my house and obviously I would need to contact everyone about attending.'

Oh God, what a caricature you are!
Tell me there's going to be a sitcom based on your family relationships, a Hyacinth for the new millenium.

All of your posts are screaming "ME ME ME" with little or no consideration for the mother of your grandchild.

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn Wed 16-Jan-13 21:48:38

She is shy around you because you are over bearing and suffocating her!

Please listen to every one on here: you are in the wrong. It is not your baby. You don't get to choose if there is a party/who gets to visit.

squeakytoy Wed 16-Jan-13 21:48:39

And of course family would see my d-i-l. But she’s not the most talkative of people so it’s not like she would be entertaining everyone. She’s fairly shy around us. Also, I would be the organiser of the party. It was going to be at my house and obviously I would need to contact everyone about attending

oh dear god.. you really are this selfish arent you... no wonder the poor woman is quiet around you, and no wonder she doesnt want to see much of you!! you sound overbearing, entitled and a complete and utter pain in the arse!

littlemonkeychops Wed 16-Jan-13 21:48:44

Wow, OP are you not reading everyone's replies?!?

No point having a party? Damn right, it's clearly YOU that wants this party not them, it's their baby their rules.

As others have said be very careful, your DIL is the most important woman in your son's life and he will, quite rightly, take her side in all matters. What you want/think with regards to their baby is irrelevant.

I know i sound harsh but you don't seem go be taking in what everyone above has said.

NonnoMum Wed 16-Jan-13 21:49:49

I'm assuming the two visitor thing might actually have been a rule of the hospital's??

Lots of hospitals don't want hundreds of over-excited, possibly germ-ridden, noisy visitors in a ward full of post-partum women and brand-new babies...

Good on your son for protecting his wife when she was sore and vulnerable.

FeltOverlooked Wed 16-Jan-13 21:50:02

I am sure that one son could have taken a picture of the other son holding the baby for you. Or you could take the photo a bit later.

I wish I had a single photo of my son on his first day of life. But I was fighting for my life, and DH was (literally) holding the baby. I am not wrong to want it, but it would be mad to prioritise it.

Your say she is shy, so then sharing the newness of being a mother with a large group of people is going to be harder for her than for someone less shy. Your other son and DIL could easily have gone for a ten-minute walk while you visited and then had their turn.

"And of course family would see my d-i-l. But she’s not the most talkative of people so it’s not like she would be entertaining everyone. " This is a nasty, nasty pair of sentences. Re-read them and think about them, they are horribly dismissive.

Leedscatgirl Wed 16-Jan-13 21:50:15

Oh dear poor dil

HecateWhoopass Wed 16-Jan-13 21:50:21

Oh, and just so you know right now - you are not entitled to "a say". you can have an opinion - ideally only if asked for one!

But you get no deciding vote within their family unit and you need to accept that before your relationship with them becomes very difficult indeed.

Forevergirl Wed 16-Jan-13 21:50:53

This is the rosy time a thread has got me mad!
All I hear from you is me me me!
Noting about what's best for your grandchild or listening to your dil and sons wishes.

I would be careful and back off, if you was my mil you would be lucky to get sent a picture never mind seeing your grandchild again.

Last thing you want is everyone looking a scrutinising you 2 months after you have given birth and certainly would want to leave your baby to be passed around like a toy!

The baby will be around for quite a while to have family photos done! I don't see the urgency in getting them done before the cord is clamped!

You say your I laws always had a say! Did you always do what they commanded asked?

NotSoNervous Wed 16-Jan-13 21:51:29

This has to be a joke! If not I can completely understand why your DIL would want to cut you out of their lives you sound way to over baring, pushy and interfering

Yes it's your family and you want to spend as much time as possible with them but its not about what you want, new parents want to spend as much time as possible together without you getting in the way and no doubt being a huge PITA

All the things in your Op about 2 visitors at a time is perfectly reasonable. When my DD was born I kept people away for days because if just given birth and had my beautiful baby that I've carried for 9months then have birth to and I want to spend time with her not have all these different people coming in and out and taking her off me.

The party, your lucky she was going to come for a few hours and its beyond ridiculous that you would expect her to leave her child there

All of your posts are about what you want and you and your boys and he has been completely pushed out, you need to learn to back off and respect their boundaries otherwise you'll lose them all for good

You're not getting it are you?
Your DIL was not an incubator for your play thing, she is the mother of your grandchild, she is your sons wife, they, not you, decide what they are going to do with their baby and when. If you don't like it, tough, suck it up.
You push this, you will lose your son and his child.

cory Wed 16-Jan-13 21:51:47

'But she’s not the most talkative of people so it’s not like she would be entertaining everyone. She’s fairly shy around us. Also, I would be the organiser of the party. It was going to be at my house and obviously I would need to contact everyone about attending.'

Is the whole rest of your extended family as difficult to please as you then? If they have to be entertained, rather than being happy to meet your dil for her own sake and to congratulate her on her lovely baby, if they don't think two hours is long enough- they must be a pretty demanding lot. Or are you just projecting your need to control things onto the rest of your family?

Spuddybean Wed 16-Jan-13 21:52:37

But you could have a photo at a later date surely. Why did it have to be when your dil was feeling overwhelmed? why did you wanting a picture trump the feelings of someone who has just been thru a major experience of having a baby? Surely on the scale of 'needs' hers wins.

I don't really know what to say about the 'entertaining everyone' comment. I'm hoping that you didn't actually mean that makes her presence a bit pointless.

It is also unusual to give gps a 'say' in what happens to the gcs. They usually just accept what the parents do and offer love and support. My parents would never have expected input from my gps on what was best for me, or them. The same as i wouldn't ask my parents about my ds. It would just be a given that the parents would do it according what they believed.

NotSoNervous Wed 16-Jan-13 21:53:00

This has to be a joke! If not I can completely understand why your DIL would want to cut you out of their lives you sound way to over baring, pushy and interfering

Yes it's your family and you want to spend as much time as possible with them but its not about what you want, new parents want to spend as much time as possible together without you getting in the way and no doubt being a huge PITA

All the things in your Op about 2 visitors at a time is perfectly reasonable. When my DD was born I kept people away for days because if just given birth and had my beautiful baby that I've carried for 9months then have birth to and I want to spend time with her not have all these different people coming in and out and taking her off me.
I
The party, your lucky she was going to come for a few hours and its beyond ridiculous that you would expect her to leave her child there

All of your posts are about what you want and you and your boys and he has been completely pushed out, you need to learn to back off and respect their boundaries otherwise you'll lose them all for good

CheeseStrawWars Wed 16-Jan-13 21:53:29

"What exactly is wrong with wanting a photo of my son holding his niece? Surely that’s normal." - yeah, but you don't need to be there taking the pic, do you? Your son can visit on his own, he's a grown-up...

"They don’t have a car so couldn’t visit on their own." - bus? train? taxi? confused

"I would be the organiser of the party" - not your place, love.

"She’s fairly shy around us." Hmm, wonder why??

Of course she is being 'shy' around you - who wouldn't.
Your DS must have seen something in her as he married her and had a child with her.

There is nothing wrong with wanting a photo of your other DS holding his niece but its's not up to you.

Yy to offering to do something that they find useful. They. Them. Not you.

My mother has a very strained relationship with my SiL because she does not approve of her as a spouse to my brother. She sees my niece v little. She puts SiL down at every opportunity. Anything that my mother thinks is not 'right' about my niece (who is a lovely 6 year old) is my DSiL's fault. It is horrible and I have told her this repeatedly. She will not/cannot change. It is her who is losing out.

Please try and listen to everyone here.

CloudsAndTrees Wed 16-Jan-13 21:55:15

Would it really be so difficult for the Dil to have allowed two extra people in their home for an hour or so? Really?

Is it really that difficult to be in a room full of family who want to congratulate you 8 weeks after having a baby?

I was PFB to the extreme when I had my first, but I don't remember wanting to push my baby's and my husbands family away as much as humanly possible. I think this DIL sounds like a selfish spoiled brat. She is allowed to be to some extent when she's just had a baby, but she's taking her mummy tiger thing too far and being spiteful for no good reason.

Maybe OP isn't going about things in exactly the right way, but she's not going out to be hurtful either. She's just a proud granny that wants to share the most important thing that has happened to her family for however long. That doesn't mean she deserves to feel threatened about having a relationship with her GS.

I wonder if the DIL is treating her family the same way.

CabbageLeaves Wed 16-Jan-13 21:56:09

You sound very entitled. This baby was born to two adults.

It was not produced for you to show off as an acquisition. Taking pictures is more important to you than this little family. Have you thought about what your behaviour is doing to them? how your son must feel?

Stop being so self obsessed and think about someone other than yourself.

CloudsAndTrees Wed 16-Jan-13 21:56:44

I feel very sorry for OPs son.

Signet2012 Wed 16-Jan-13 21:56:49

Well now we know where all the MiL threads come from.

- it is not your baby. It is your sons baby. In the pecking order it goes 1) baby 2) baby mum 3) your son 4)-20) people who are going to be useful. Then you, your bloody photos and your party.

My dd is 4 months old. The day she was born I said parents could come. I did not allow my brother or any of dp siblings there because I looked and felt like a train wreck. I was beyond exhausted, looked like shit and felt worse. I was embarrassed by my catheter (emcs) the fact I was bleeding all over and was trying hard to get bf established.

It isn't about you!

Your poor DIL is probably quiet and shy because she finds you completely overbearing and quite frankly I don't blame her.

Back off. Let them get sorted. You have had your turn its their turn now.

And as for a party. I would have ran gor the hills. I certainly wouldn't be wanting my baby being passed about like a prized bloody puppy. To even suggest she could go home sums up exactly the level of thought and respect you have for your DIL.

For the sake of future relations you need to back off now. Hth

Matildaduck Wed 16-Jan-13 21:56:57

Oh dear, you need to re set your expectations. Your like my mil, she gets very little contact.

Did you hang out with your dil before? Do you love each others company? Thought not. Don't try to monopolise her time with her baby.

You had your babies, get a grip.

Greensleeves Wed 16-Jan-13 21:57:10

<wondering whether my little brother has married his gf and had a baby since we cut her out>

Sirzy Wed 16-Jan-13 21:57:27

Your organising a family party just to introduced the baby? Your doing this after you have specifically been asked to keep visitors to a minimum?

And you can't see your being quite overpowering?

Oh and at 6 weeks we were burying FIL, so I suppose I didi kind of go to a party organised by Mil. However, everyone there respected the fact I was a new mum and gave me the space and assistance I wanted/needed.

By all means offer to organise a family gathering, but do not expect the offer to be taken.

FelicityWasSanta Wed 16-Jan-13 21:58:14

What exactly is wrong with wanting a photo of my son holding his niece? Surely that’s normal.

Normal? To need it at new born stage or you are in a strop? No, that's a bit weird. But if I was you I'd get your sons GF to take the picture on your camera for you, job one.

And I do remember when I had my children. I certainly did not exclude my mother in law.

Lovely

Her and my father in law always had a say.

A say in what exactly?

I wouldn’t have dreamt of saying ‘this is my child; you have to do it my way’. It seems like a threat, if I don’t agree then I lose out on seeing my grandchild.

I imagine your DIL isn't enjoying saying it either, think how upset this shy woman must be to be saying it.

My other son and his girlfriend live in a different part of the country so they came to stay with us so they could visit baby. They don’t have a car so couldn’t visit on their own.

Drip drip. And bollocks, if they can get to you- train/bus/taxi they can get to the babies.

And of course family would see my d-i-l. But she’s not the most talkative of people so it’s not like she would be entertaining everyone.

What a horrible and bitchy thing to say. I'm sure she does appear shy around you- the problem is you.

She’s fairly shy around us.

Im not bloody surprised.

Also, I would be the organiser of the party. It was going to be at my house and obviously I would need to contact everyone about attending.

Get this if nothing else into your head. IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT YOU.

Is it really that difficult to be in a room full of family who want to congratulate you 8 weeks after having a baby?

Yes for some women it is,.

She's shy around you? I'm not surprised she doesn't fucking talk to you.

Greensleeves Wed 16-Jan-13 21:58:57

CloudsandTrees, do you often find yourself a lone voice? Because it seems everyone else reads the OP differently from you confused

CheeseStrawWars Wed 16-Jan-13 21:58:59

You are Peggy Mitchell and I claim my £10.

CloudsAndTrees, I take your point, but I suspect that there is a big prior history here.
I had lots of family staying with us right after I had PFB DS1. But that was my/our choice. NOT my MiL (or in fact mother) advising us of what they expected to happen.
This is more about attitudes and relationships than actual 'how many people visit at any given time' IYKWIM.

I feel sorry for French too, but maybe for other reasons than you.

difficultpickle Wed 16-Jan-13 21:59:29

Your poor poor dil. You honestly expect her to come to a party when her baby is 8 weeks old and go home and leave the baby with you? Utter madness.

Why can't you wait until the baby is older and have a party when it is say 6 months? Why are you so keen to put that sort of pressure on a new mother? confused

SuiGeneris Wed 16-Jan-13 21:59:34

Can you really not see how selfish your posts (and views) are? Also, the wording of your posts suggests you do not consider DIL part of your family either (eg "family is coming to see son and grandson"). If you speak in the same way in which you write consider yourself fortunate DIL is still talking to you.

As for the photos, party etc, others have said it better than I, but to sum up:

1. If they said two visitors at the time, so it should have been. I was beyond cross when PILs and BIL and BIL's GF all piled into my hospital cubicle not even one hour after I had been discharged from HDU onto the normal maternity ward. The mere thought still makes me cross... I had just had the most horrible 36 hours in my life, had very nearly died and they piled in, sitting on the bed, chatting etc as if I had just had an ingrown toenail taken out.

2. Parties are not good for babies, especially not in winter with all the colds, vomiting bugs, whooping cough epidemic etc.

3. A very new mother is likely to be shattered, feeling awful and looking worse: why make her the centre of attention now instead of waiting when she is ready?

4. Leaving a newborn at a party (or anywhere other than where his mother is)??? Really? I do not know of anyone who would do this. Mother and baby come as a package or not at all.

Etc, etc, etc.

WorraLiberty Wed 16-Jan-13 21:59:57

I genuinely thought MILs like you were a myth OP?!? confused

You know, something people started threads about because they're bored

Sadly, it seems not.

Inertia Wed 16-Jan-13 22:00:07

How inconvenient for you that nobody's yet invented pregnancy-replacement incubating machines, so that your grandchild could have been grown from your son's sperm and a suitable egg (donor selected by you). What a pain that this baby has an actual real life mother, with the sheer nerve to not just disappear after producing your grandson. Instead she is putting the needs of her baby first and not pandering to your dictator tendencies whims - for heaven's sake, she won't even leave her newborn, possibly breastfed baby behind at a party with a load of people she doesn't know and in the charge of a woman who refuses to accept that she doesn't have ownership rights.

You seem to think the world revolves around what you want. You need to let your son and his new family come up for air, because you risk losing contact with them completely.

OxfordBags Wed 16-Jan-13 22:00:17

Oh, I bet she's shy around you. Either cowed into near silence by your overbearing, overwhelming, overweening selfishness and megalomania or she is too biting her tongue nearly in two to stop herself putting you firmly in your place to dare say much. Either way, you are awful!

Not like she'd be entertaining people? Erm, as you seem to have forgotten, SHE is the mother of the child who would be the focus of the party (well, I know you want to be the focus, but you'll be disappointed). People will naturally flock to her and want to talk to her, ask her things, pay her compliments, try to get gory details, offer unwanted advice... the whole gamut of conversation you have to deal with as a new mother. I know that in your mind, this party will consist of you wafting about looking maaahvellous, holding your grandaughter in your arms like some radiant mature madonna, as everyone else compliments you on your amazing skills as a grandmother, blahblahblah, but it ain't going to happen.

As for your son and partner not having a car so they 'had' to accompany you: have you heard of such a thing as public transport? Taxis? Bullshit was coming with you the only way to get there. Hell, if you were that worried about them meeting their new niece, you could've given them a lift.

It's very nice that your in-laws had a say and certain rights in your childrens' lives. BUT THAT IS NOT NOW. Just because you did it one way does not mean it's going to happen now.

You sound incredibly controlling. Cntrolling to the point of it almost being a personality disorder or mental health issue. You are blaming these non-problems on your DIL, but has it occured to you that it's all from your son finally finding his balls and usijg this excellent and apt opportunity to try to get you to grasp the message that things aren't all about you and to back the fuck off. He is not some glovepuppet mouthing the things your DIL insists he tells you. He obviously feels passionately about keeping this special, unique time for him and his wife between them and good for him. At least one thing I can say positively to you is that you must have done something right to have a son so loyal to his wife.

I really do believe that how you have been acting and probably have always acted, is actually making them hold you more at arm's length than they would do if you weren't so determined to decide what's right for theothers in your life and obsessed with asserting your own needs and rights - rights as you see them, that is.

The one person in all of this that you seem to have not thought about once is this lovely little girl you profess to care so much about. This is a time where she needs to bond with her mother and just be with her, and her Daddy to a slightly lesser extent. She doesn't want or need to meet what are strangers to her, she doesn't need her mother stressed and insulted whilst they bond and connect, and she certainly doesn't need a party. If you really love her, you would support her mother. Which is not you, in case you'd forgotten.

When my first 2 babies were 8 weeks I'd barely got out of my nighty. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to go to a "let's pass my baby around like a toy" party that my mother in law deigned herself important enough to organise.

cory Wed 16-Jan-13 22:00:35

CloudsAndTrees Wed 16-Jan-13 21:55:15

"Maybe OP isn't going about things in exactly the right way, but she's not going out to be hurtful either."

We are talking here of the woman who doesn't think it matters if the DIL goes home early because she is not entertaining enough, but thinks she would be unreasonable to take her small baby home with her.

DoJo Wed 16-Jan-13 22:00:39

You sound demanding, unsympathetic and overbearing - so glad you're not my MIL. At 8 weeks after my son was born I still couldn't sit down and would have hated having to go to a party where I would have been intensely physically uncomfortable. Added to which, if anyone's going to throw a party for MY baby it will be me and OH, not some interfering family member who can't even be pleasant about a woman who has just had a baby.

HecateWhoopass Wed 16-Jan-13 22:00:42

I bet if the daughter in law came on here we would be told a very long story about a very interfering and domineering mother in law who expects to be consulted on all decisions and acts like it's one big family that she is the head of - and there are probably a hundred different examples of domineering behaviour and that is why the daughter in law is acting like this at this moment.

The way the OP has phrased it, she sounds like it. And she's presenting herself in the best possible light!

I seriously doubt that all was rosy and mutually respectful until the birth!

I am reading an attitude here from the OP that screams 'I should be in control here'

GregBishopsBottomBitch Wed 16-Jan-13 22:01:05

Wow, i feel sorry for your daughter in law, have you even thought maybe shes shy because shes never really felt like she was welcomed to the family, and shes just had a baby, thats a tiring and emotional time for anyone. I felt very overwhelmed after DD was born. Maybe instead of all your demanding, maybe actually talk to her and ask her about how she feels.

Frenchspeak Wed 16-Jan-13 22:01:10

Hello Brainonastick, I have been here over a year.

Thank you CloudsAndTrees. It seems like she is using my grandchild as a means to be in charge.

Signet2012 Wed 16-Jan-13 22:01:12

I was mortified and terrified after I had given birth. I didn't feel it fair to banish visitors completely so I asked for only parents until I was home. I would have been uncomfortable in my nightwear infront of dp brothers and my own although to a lesser degree.

People seem to forget giving birth isn't something all women pop out of the other end and look like they do in the magazines. If a person is quite a private person (like me) I can completely understand her not wanting 8 visitors.

TheJanuaryProject Wed 16-Jan-13 22:01:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Wow, you sound like you don't like your DIL, I feel sorry for her, having her first child and by the sounds of it having to deal with your selfish attitude.

NaturalBaby Wed 16-Jan-13 22:02:18

Well your DIL is clearly not like you is she? She won't do things the way you did, she's been brought up differently and has different priorities. Pleasing her MIL within hours of giving birth is obviously not her priority.

Rushing in within hours to stage a photo of your grandchild without it's mother is not very respectful to the child's mother. The mother of the child is the priority - she comes first.

Are the enormous amount of negative responses making you wonder if you've been a bit out of order? Can you not see that maybe the way you have behaved and spoken to your DIL has contributed to the way things are at the moment? It's not all about her and how shy she is. Why do you think she is the way she is??

forgetmenots Wed 16-Jan-13 22:02:18

French, I think I can guess why your DIL isn't very talkative around you. I'm not with my ILs either. And I'm usually the life and soul.

Seriously, whether you think people are right or not, take the good advice you have been given, because otherwise you will regret it. By posting here and getting this response you've actually been given a chance to just stop and take a bit of stock. Let them be, for your family's sake (all of them).

somedayma Wed 16-Jan-13 22:02:26

Tripp trapp

"It feels like a threat".

Yes, you feel threatened. That says more about your level of insecurity and need to reassert your control than what actually has been set. Boundaries, even boundaries different from what you would set, are not threats.

Signet2012 Wed 16-Jan-13 22:03:16

She is in charge!! It's her bloody baby. Your son agrees with her. It's his bloody baby.

You are trying to control a situation that is not yours to control.

DarwinGirl Wed 16-Jan-13 22:03:18

My God, you sound like an absolute nightmare. It's incredible that you appear to not see how awful you are being - and how unreasonable. Thank God you are not my MIL.

TheNebulousBoojum Wed 16-Jan-13 22:03:34

I think you've name changed because you know you are being a total megalomaniac and don't want the aroma to hang about you on a daily basis.
Or you are a regular who wants to stir up irritation because you are bored, or you think it's amusing. Which it really isn't

fatfinger Wed 16-Jan-13 22:03:48

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Wed 16-Jan-13 22:04:23

Thank you CloudsAndTrees. It seems like she is using my grandchild as a means to be in charge. OK, now your just a piss taker!!!!!

maddening Wed 16-Jan-13 22:04:31

I fear op you are a lost cause and likely to see less of your gs if you carry on like this.

I would not have wanted a party at 8 weeks.

He is not your prize to show off.

And family will be coming to see your dil and her husband and child.

And another thing that is telling is your referring to your other son's partner as a girlfriend - which indicates a newer relationship - after 6 years you would indicate her significance in your son's life by referring to her as a partner.

I think you should heed the warning from this thread that you are really in danger of fucking up something which you love passionately - think on it might be the best thing you could do for a happy future rather than years of gradually isolating your family.

And I wonder why she is shy round you? Maybe your lack of respect for her is obvious - that would put off anyone. You need to really make an effort to gain her as a friend rather than turn her in to an enemy - you will hurt both yourself, your ds and his family

LittleBearPad Wed 16-Jan-13 22:04:31

YABVVU and you need to back off. Your DS and DIL have had their world totally turned upside down and need time to adjust as they want to and to the timetable they need. Being more understanding of this now means you will enjoy a better relationship in the future with your son and his family. I can't believe you suggested she leave the baby at the party and went home - I am stunned by your lack of insight.

There was no need for you to be there to take a picture of your son and his niece. His girlfriend could have done it.

I had to go to a family wedding at eight weeks and it was exhausting and stressful. I went because it was long-arranged and a wedding - not a random party that could be arranged at any time for you to show off your GC. Give your DIL a break.

Spuddybean Wed 16-Jan-13 22:04:45

Sorry Clouds the dil did say she would go to the party, but for 2 hours didn't she? - or have i made that up? If so 2 hours is plenty 8 wks after birth i think. I thought the OP wanted her to then leave the baby after the 2 hours. How much more of a nb can people see? It is overwhelming for them too. all those new faces and people passing them round.

"Thank you CloudsAndTrees. It seems like she is using my grandchild as a means to be in charge. "

Haha! This pudding is getting eggy.

Eight pages of "YABU" and you listen to the single post you like? You say she wants to be in charge when you obviously want to be yourself.

You can't be that screwed up.

orangebowl Wed 16-Jan-13 22:05:26

French- she IS in charge! It's her baby. Back off. Offer to cook, clean, help. Lose the crazy party idea.

Signet2012 Wed 16-Jan-13 22:05:39

I'm starting to think this is a wind up.

I refuse to believe anyone is that much of a stupid, pig headed control freak.

brainonastick Wed 16-Jan-13 22:06:05

Ok, thanks. I'm amazed, I could have sworn this was a wind up, but I guess we all have times when we can't see what's in front of our eyes confused.

I'm just wondering if you have ever read any MIL threads in that time, and agreed with the DIL, or at least seen her pov? Because this is one of the worst I have ever seen (in 6 or 7 yrs). Can you see the truth in any of the points that posters are making about how your DIL might see this?

nilbyname Wed 16-Jan-13 22:06:46

Classic op, whole thread about her being in the wrong, op finds the one post that backs her up a bit and responds to that.

Bingo!

Runs round the house in a victory lap.

op you are a classic!

CabbageLeaves Wed 16-Jan-13 22:06:46

It's her child!!!!!!! before it's your grandchild.

as a means to be in charge Pot. Kettle. Black

i hope they cut you out of their lives asap because you sound utterly toxic

I had to go back and reread that last post from you OP

Who do you think you are ? The fuckin mafia?

She is in charge, her and her husband.

DoodlesNoodles Wed 16-Jan-13 22:07:44

frenchspeak have one of these biscuit

I am still hoping this is a reverse AIBU confused

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Wed 16-Jan-13 22:07:44

Yabu. Settle down or DIL will sack you off. Your relationship with your grandchild only exists if DIL decides to allow it. Best start being nice and accept that DIL calls the shots

"It seems like she is using my grandchild as a means to be in charge."

She is in charge, it's her fucking baby. You are clearly a very unpleasant woman who needs someone in RL to sit down with you and tell you to wind your neck in and learn some fucking manners.

trofeewife Wed 16-Jan-13 22:08:34

This reminds me of 'The Little House,' except that MIL at least pretended to like her DIL.

CheerfulYank Wed 16-Jan-13 22:08:37

When I was first dating DH I was terrified of my future mil because she is so reserved. She isn't cold, but she does seem like it.

Now ten years on and with a DS (and another DC on the way) I farking LOVE her because she never, but never, sticks her oar in. She babysits when asked, gives advice when asked. It's bliss. smile

OP yabvu. Some people wouldn't mind what you're suggesting. I took DS to fil's birthday party when he was a week or two old. Didn't bother me a bit. People held DS and I snoozed on the couch. grin

One of my best friends is a bit shy. She just doesn't like large crowds, or having a lot of people in her space, or doing much at all when she's tired or not feeling well. What you're suggesting with the party would be a total screaming nightmare for her.

Your dil is entitled to her own feelings. You need to back off.

FernandoIsFaster Wed 16-Jan-13 22:08:49

Your DIL is only quiet around you because she is constantly biting her lip to stop herself from telling you to fuck off.

You sound like an absolute nightmare. YABU. And I feel so sorry for your DIL.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Wed 16-Jan-13 22:09:24

This thread has got to be a troll thread, no one would be dumb enough to come on forum and expect to be agreed with. Who comes on a thread and spouts shit like that? utterly stupid people, thats who.

Sirzy Wed 16-Jan-13 22:09:31

A mother wanting to be in charge of her child. What a strange concept confused

Your son is an adult, he has his own family THEY are now his priority not pandering to you being like a sulking toddler.

To start with I thought you had a point. Would it have been so awful for the new parents to have 4 guests for a short period? When i had DC 1 i had family visiting in groups, but nobody stayed very long, and it was fine.

However, your comments since then have been mean. You really sound as if you don't like your dil, and I suspect the feeling is mutual. It's not kind to ask your dil to go home because she's shy, but leave the baby with you!

"Thank you CloudsAndTrees. It seems like she is using my grandchild as a means to be in charge."

That's the whole point, she IS in charge!

<<bangs head against laptop in frustration and leaves the thread>>

CabbageLeaves Wed 16-Jan-13 22:10:29

I work with someone like this. Spends her life snapping at people who don't meet her demands and looking like she's sucking a lemon.
Completely selfish individual lacking any insight

FeltOverlooked Wed 16-Jan-13 22:10:35

Actually, I jolly well hope it is a troll thread for everyone's sake!

Jossysgiants Wed 16-Jan-13 22:10:44

op you are giving me the heeby jeebies

KoalaTale Wed 16-Jan-13 22:11:05

Yabu.mil from hell. I feel so sad that there is a poor woman, recently given birth, who is having to endure this crap.

Op, please give her a break and leave her in peace with her dd.

NotSoNervous Wed 16-Jan-13 22:11:16

She IS IN CHARGE!!!! Why can't you understand that??

Whatever you think DOESN'T MATTER and you need to realise that YOU HAVE NO SAY what's so ever

You can't post on here asking for advice and then only listen to 1 you like about of almost 200

I can tell you exactly how this is going to go, your going to keep being a PITA and pushing yourself and your opinions into them and there going to cut you off and it will be your own fault

SamSmalaidh Wed 16-Jan-13 22:12:26

I am really pleased that your DS and DIL are managing to stand up to you!

brainonastick Wed 16-Jan-13 22:12:30

I think it unlikely that a person with the character traits of the OP would feel the need to come and ask AIBU. Just saying.

LiveItUp Wed 16-Jan-13 22:12:48

Actually OP, you carry on in your selfish little world. That way, you will be cut out of their lives and that is probably the best thing for them. No one needs someone as controlling and toxic as you in their lives.

It's not even like the dil has told the OP she can't visit, or that she can't have the party. she has said she will come along for 2 hours. At 8 weeks that's plenty enough time.

It sounds like she's compromising with you when i bet she just wants to tell you to feck off.

iluvsummer Wed 16-Jan-13 22:14:33

You sound like my mil.......me and my beautiful son haven't seen her since July last year!! She is nuts and toxic! YABVVU!!

amistillsexy Wed 16-Jan-13 22:14:50

Whether or not the DIl enjoys parties/is shy is immaterial.

OP, she doesn't want to attend your party. She has turned down your invitation, using tiredness as the excuse in the hope that you will back off and leave her and her family alone.

She was being polite, saying 'I'lll be too tired to come' instead of 'You must be Fucking Joknig, I'd rather gouge my own eyes out with blunt pencils than spend a Sunday afternoon in the company of you and yours.'

HTH

ChristianGreyIsAJackass Wed 16-Jan-13 22:15:38

I think it unlikely that a person with the character traits of the OP would feel the need to come and ask AIBU. Just saying.

^^ this

Jossysgiants Wed 16-Jan-13 22:16:49

brainonastick
Quite.

LittleBearPad Wed 16-Jan-13 22:16:59

OP Congratulations, you get my first biscuit.

pollyblue Wed 16-Jan-13 22:17:13

Brainsona or maybe they would - OP is so sure and certain she is absolutely right she's expected everyone to agree with her. Because she is so pigheaded the idea that she might be wrong is impossible to contemplate.

200 posts on, she's just latched onto the one person who has agreed with her. Talking to her IRL must be like talking to a brick wall.

PoppadomPreach Wed 16-Jan-13 22:17:45

No way is this for real. Just no way. Unless OP is Peggy Mitchell.

Just out of curiosity, and I know I shouldn't still be on this thread as it's making me more angry than any other AIBU ever, what does your husband think OP?

Frenchspeak Wed 16-Jan-13 22:18:40

I said in my original post that the party was not happening. Neither of them wanted it to happen. I'm not pushing it anymore. I was just using it as an example of how I'm not allowed to share in the enjoyment of a new baby.

My mother was exactly like you I told her I was not an incubator for her grandchildren. She would only ever talk about her family and her rights and her grandchildren and not acknowledge that she was inflicted on me but I chose my dh and to have my children. We haven't spoken in a couple of years now and its been great. Be very careful or that could be you. Your son and DIL sound bloody great btw, good for them putting you in your place so early on instead of silently seething about it.

MumVsKids Wed 16-Jan-13 22:19:01

Using the child to be in charge????

Oh FFS, B&Q have grips on special offer. Get one hmm

OxfordBags Wed 16-Jan-13 22:19:31

If she really is doing it to be in control, ask yourself why you make her feel the need to do that?

I don't think she is doing it for that reason, though. I suspect you are the full-on matriarh, the queen bee, used to be the focus of the entire family and used to always having everything your own way and controlling their lives for them (if they are typical of many men who will just go along with that stuff 'for a quiet life'). Now your DIL isn't going to play the game your way. Now there is a new queen bee. Younger, prettier, fertile, a new mother. This must be truly freaking you out, not to mention outraging and infuriating you. Well, tough titty, about time you realise you're not Queen of Fucking Everything.

I can see why your son loves a woman who is quiet, doesn't like making a big deal over stuff (like throwing a party post-partum), cares about the deeper issues and not her image to others.

Women of your generation (I am presuming you are at least mid 50s or older from the way you write) were trained to make sacrifices of their own needs and wants and put others first and do stuff as mothers to please others and 'keep face' and I suspect you unconsciously expected that of her and it feels not only insulting and confusing, but as though you have been denied your 'reward' for what was expected of you when you were a new mother (ie that you got to make selfish demands about your GC and have them met).

The sooner you realise that what you want, the way you want it, is not going to happen and the more you push and moan, the less likely it will, in fact, happen, the sooner you can actually get over yourself and try to find some way to make it up to your son and DIL for being so awful and selfish and forge new and genuine ways to have a relationship with them and your GD that benefit you all. Ways that will always be on their terms, because they are her parents and family and they get to decide things for her, not you. Your rights towards her are what they choose to give you. Tread carefully.

WeeWeeWeeAllTheWayHome Wed 16-Jan-13 22:19:53

I wouldn't have thought that parties held under bridges were particularly suitable for newborns.

<<whistles innocently>>

pigletmania Wed 16-Jan-13 22:19:57

Op I can understand how you feel, but it is still early days yet, mum may be feeling very overwhelmed, hormonal, tired and trying to get used to life with a baby. It is fantastic that your son is supporting her as t should be. I wsh I did this when I had my first baby, visitors started flooding in soon after we got home, I was in a lot of pain as my episiotomy became infected, add to that pnd, upset at my failure to bf. my in laws were staying with us before and after the birth ( they live abroad). My dh even insisted that MIL was there when I gave birth, which she was, threw a party a few days after dd was born at our house. This added to the stress and might ave been part f my reason for failing to bf. it certainly exacerbated my PND.

So please be a little understanding towards yor daughter in law. If she is bf there is noway she can leave her baby, so dnt expect that. Cut her some slack and try to be more understanding. Offer to help and be there instead of demanding.

BumbleBee2011 Wed 16-Jan-13 22:20:08

Wow YABVU - we had a party for DD when she was 2 weeks old (it was my birthday, my friends thought we were mad)...I thought it was a great way to get everybody "done" in one go. However it was on our home turf, I was able to go upstairs to breastfeed whenever I wanted to, and it was 100% people we wanted to see.

If anyone had tried to organise that party on our behalf we'd have said no.

And BTW we had 4 days of no visitors other than parents, it's called rooming in and is considered pretty normal.

wibblyjelly Wed 16-Jan-13 22:20:10

French, you probably will be allowed to enjoy the baby if you back off, and let them do things at their own pace.

This thread has made me crosser than pretty much anything I have ever read on mumsnet. Frenchspeak: if you are for real, then you sound narcissistic and controlling, and I hope that your daughter-in-law finds the strength to keep you at a distance and continue setting the firm boundaries that are clearly needed here.

SugarplumMary Wed 16-Jan-13 22:21:23

I think it unlikely that a person with the character traits of the OP would feel the need to come and ask AIBU. Just saying.

I don't know my ILs told everyone how they were behaving and couldn't see anything wrong what ever people said.

TBH how they mared the first few years its a wonder that we get on now. We do as they backed off - we moved away, they tried breaking us up and got no where and seemed to fianlly realise we were the parents and I was sticking around.

MIL did the big party thing to - then she wanted another one as everyone had been polite about GC and then wanted food and drink - they weren't as excited about baby as they were.

OP - you have years to do things with your GC if you don't screw it up.

Frenchspeak Wed 16-Jan-13 22:22:02

Hello lurkedtoolong. My husband also wanted both our sons together so we could take photos, enjoy the occasion etc. He doesn't like what's happening either but it's usually up to me to put my foot down. He just lets things go for the most part.

bamboozled Wed 16-Jan-13 22:22:19

Flabbergasted - OP you make my mother in law look like a saint (and she is truly terrible)... Leave the poor woman alone, leave your son alone and leave the baby alone, then see if they have space for you at the moment - or if you have behaved so appallingly that they can't be around you - I know which one I would choose - and you will have brought it all upon yourself...

Pendipidy Wed 16-Jan-13 22:22:55

Yes, she is in charge of her own baby! I presume that is what you were referring to when talking about being in charge, or were you talking about being in charge of something else?

Do you really think that you should be in charge of her baby, or how and when and for how long she takes her baby out?

Do you not realise how over bearing you are coming across? If you offered to help, rather than dominate her, you might find her more forth coming.

CunningPlan Wed 16-Jan-13 22:22:59

Jesus Christ OP. Your DIL is in charge of her own family. On what planet would you be in charge of her own family?

I'm out.

Jossysgiants Wed 16-Jan-13 22:23:00

French - but you do not seem to want to 'share' you want to completely take over without consideration of the baby's parents feelings. The baby is not a commodity. Why can you only 'enjoy' the baby in this manner -I.e with an audience/ big party etc etc.

maddening Wed 16-Jan-13 22:23:52

Ps you have not been in charge since your ds moved out as an adult.

SugarplumMary Wed 16-Jan-13 22:24:02

French, you probably will be allowed to enjoy the baby if you back off, and let them do things at their own pace.
^^ This.

As soon as my IL backed off and stoped trying to undermine and 'parent' our DC and we knew they had stopped point scoring and undermining us and doing oppoiste of what we said even if dangerous just because - then we could let them do so much more with the DC as we could trust them.

Pity it took years.

I really do think you should back off, you are behaving very badly. I can see that you want to enjoy your new grandchild but the chances are much better if you go at your son and DIL's pace rather than try to push everything. You are coming across as very pushy and hellish to be around. Calm down. A lot.

bluer Wed 16-Jan-13 22:24:48

You are a nutter. You make me very glad I have a lovely mil...I would ask her advice and help precisely because she wouldn't be pushy. Another friend has a mil like you and I can tell you she's hardly seen the gc since her crazy ideas stayed. Listen and learn if you want to be a part of the Childs life

OP you really are a prize...

Bicnod Wed 16-Jan-13 22:25:23

Erm, OP, she IS in charge of HER child.

If you carry on with this shit you will lose out on seeing your grandchild, any future grandchildren and probably your son as well.

He won't choose you if you make it a choice, he'll choose his wife and child.

LaCiccolina Wed 16-Jan-13 22:25:40

The only plus post for this op is clouds. Op has only posted a couple of times? Are they one and same?!?!

Could be my mil. Ugh.

noviceoftheday Wed 16-Jan-13 22:25:47

Words fail me.shockmil was a bossy breeches pre babies but that went away (mostly) as soon as dc1 was born. You could learn a lot from her.

"it's usually up to me to put my foot down."

You don't have a foot to put down. They are their own little family unit and will do things their way.

LiveItUp Wed 16-Jan-13 22:26:17

Out of here ... this OP can't be for real. 'Night all.

Greensleeves Wed 16-Jan-13 22:26:42

Ah, your enabler dh agrees with you on everything but somehow it's always you "putting your foot down"

I think you should point your DIL towards MN. We'll sort her out for you

baremadness Wed 16-Jan-13 22:26:57

2 people rule was probably a hospital rule and even if not it os not a bad idea (though I would have preferred if they all came at once so they could all quickly fark off again and leave me in peace. But each to their own)

Party was a silly idea as its not your partyto throw.

Ds and Dil are in charge. It is their kid.

6 weeks is very young they need time to settle into the newness of it all.

You come across as very entitled and willlose out in the long run unless you back off.

My mil is a bitch but threads like this make me grateful I rarely have to deal with her.

If you don't watch it they will be putting their feet down regarding YOU.

Stop being a controlling nutter OP.

Littlebearlost Wed 16-Jan-13 22:27:26

My mil has a similar attitude and it's done her no favours in the long run.
I wish I'd been as strong and from as your dil but I wasn't.
My mil turned up at my house the day after i got home following an emergency c section with a prem baby along with her brother and sil, who I'd previously met twice. After which arrived ten further members of the family in convoy. They stopped for six hours. I had to sit on the floor as there were no seats. They toted my baby around like he was a toy with mil saying "it's so and so's turn now" I also lost respect for my husband because he should have been on my side, I was vulnerable and shattered and couldn't stand up for myself. I'm glad your son has more sense.
When I'd had my ds and was desperately trying to feed him whilst still in hospital she suggested I give up and bottle feed him so that we could go home and she could show him off to all her friends. Sadly we never got the hang of breast feeding and I expressed for months on end instead, sometimes whilst I was expressing she stand outside the door telling me to "hurry up" because she wanted to "nurse" the baby.

And finally when I was pregnant she suggested fitting my planned c section around her holiday (which she had booked knowing me due date) and bringing it forward a week. I refused. And i was livid. And still am actually. Unfortunately ds was prem so ended up being an emerge cy c section and she wasn't on holiday. I was really hoping she would be on holiday when I had him as I knew she would be a massive pain in the arse.

Still in the long run it hasn't helped and I now am unwilling to cooperate with her at all. I allow her as little access to my child as I can. She was Vile to me when I was pregnant and unwell, telling me it only mattered about the baby and she very much saw me as a baby making vessel. And she also seemed to think that the baby would be hers. Consequently I push her out as much as I can because I can't forgive the way she behaved.
So I'd tred carefully. It isn't your child. You've had your children and now must step back a bit. It will be better in the long run than going in all guns blazing.

OxfordBags Wed 16-Jan-13 22:28:18

"Not allowed to share in the enjoyment of a new baby"??? Melodramatic, much?! How can you even type over the cacophany of all those tiny violins playing in the background? hmm

You really have worked yourself up into a tizzy, haven't you? There are so many ways to share in the joy of a new arrival that it would break MN to list them all. What you really mean is that you are not being allowed to use the birth of the baby to make yourself feel and look good the way you want to. I'm saying this to try to get through to you, not to be bitchy. Your son and DIL not wanting loads of visitors and photography shortly after birth or feeling up to a party (or thinking it's not in the best interest of their child), is not them trying to piss on your chips.

HildaOgden Wed 16-Jan-13 22:28:21

I really,really hope that daughter-in-law is on MN and sees the support she is getting.

Because OP,you're making a show of yourself.And I'm beginning to suspect you must be hairy of hand.

Frenchspeak Wed 16-Jan-13 22:28:30

With regards to the 'in charge' phrasing. I know she is in charge of the baby. It's more that she seems to be using her role as new mother to state when other family members will meet the baby etc. She didn't really want my other son to visit, so it's as though what she says goes. I'm trying to take on board what people are saying and will also tell my son what people have said. I think she needs to realise that my grandchild is part of a wider family.

amistillsexy Wed 16-Jan-13 22:28:42

OP, what have you done to be involved in the baby's life?

Cooked a meal and left it for them to heat up and eat later (without you there)?

Offered to clean the house while your DIL and son sleep/take the baby for a walk?

Run DIL a bath and held the baby whilst she relaxed?

Offered to clean their fridges/ toilets/ oven or any other horrible job that will have needed doing in the 6 weeks since the baby was born?

Done the supermarket shop for the family (even if they pay for it)?

Brought a care package for your DIl, filled with treats you know that she enjoys?

Maybe if you do just one or two of the things on this list, you would be more welcome in the lives of your son and DIL, and they would be more obliging when it came to your show-off party.

"I think you should point your DIL towards MN. We'll sort her out for you "

grin

Yeah we'll sort her out with a standing ovation for putting up with you

"she seems to be using her role as new mother to state when other family members will meet the baby etc."

Yep, that would be fine.

"it's as though what she says goes"

You're getting there OP, you're getting there...

Kendodd Wed 16-Jan-13 22:30:46

I am so glad you're not my MIL, you sound nuts. This is the most U, AIBU I have ever read. If I were your DIL you'd be lucky to have any contact at all.

forgetmenots Wed 16-Jan-13 22:31:23

For the last time.

What she says DOES go.

She can state who can visit.

She does not 'need to realise' anything and your behaviour will only push her further away.

But, you know, you could just carry on righteous as you are...

I have skimmed this thread, have only read the OP's posts so apologies if others have already responded similarly.

YABU. Beyond U.

" She's fairly shy around us. "
Since you've been here a year - you really must consider that she is not being shy, she is 'nodding and smiling'. Possibly inwardly seething all the while.

" It seems like she is using my grandchild as a means to be in charge."
In charge of WHAT? Newsflash - when it comes to your grandchild, as the mother of that child she IS in charge! Who exactly do you think should be in charge, and in charge of exactly what? Although it is obvious that you think you should be in charge, but again I would ask you - in charge of WHAT? (Or as they would say where I come from - who died and made you God?)

"She seems to forget that we are her child’s family and need to be included."
And you seem to forget that she is her child's closest family and, if you do not mend your ways, her child's gatekeeper.

I found the way you write quite telling. You hold her at arm's length - she is your son's wife, not your daughter-in-law. (I suspect you were picked up on this by other posters as she was d-i-l in one of your later posts. Hmm. Not DIL, as would be usual for someone who's been here over a year. Hmm.) You expect family to attend YOUR party to see YOUR son and YOUR grandchild. Really, nobody in YOUR family would come to see her? Are you all utter bastards?

You need to look at yourself and your behaviour towards this woman honestly, and mend your ways. And do it fast, because in her shoes I'd be keeping you as far away from me as I could.

Smellslikecatspee Wed 16-Jan-13 22:32:28

Oh dear I don't even have DC and this is unreal, its made me laugh it so unreal 10/10

Corygal Wed 16-Jan-13 22:32:52

"it's as though what she says goes" - Yes, OP, that would be about it.

Your life must be pretty empty if you are driven to be this controlling. Do something nice for someone else instead of diva-ing all over other people . it works.

pollyblue Wed 16-Jan-13 22:33:17

Of course she gets to say when other family members get to meet the baby, because it's HER baby!

bangs head on wall

MammaTJ Wed 16-Jan-13 22:33:34

OMG!! I can't quite believe that you are getting all this good advice and the only one you are acknowledging or listening to is the one person who has agreed with you.

Your DIL, yes, that is what she is, your DIL, not just your sons wife. Even the way you describe her tried to diminish her importance, is in charge. It his her baby. Yes, she can threaten to not let you see your grandchild, but she hasn't doen that-yet!! Be aware that should you continue with your controlling domineering behaviour she may well take that option. She is not threatening it, but I am warning you, it could happen!!

Eight weeks old and you want to throw a party and have the baby handed round like some pass the parcel? Not a good idea. I would have hated it. I would not have allowed it. Surely the first 'party' that a baby gets to be a star at is their Christening if the parents are so inclined, or their first birthday. It is not OK for the GPs to control these events either.

Have a heart. The poor woman is struggling with new motherhood, trying to bond with her baby and dealing with the hormones involved in not long having given birth.

The reason things are not changing when you talk to your son is that he agrees with his wife. He just doesn't want to stand up to you.

Up to you whether you listen to this or not, but be warned you could not only lose your DIL, but you could lose your DS and GS and you will only have yourself to blame.

saycheeeeeese Wed 16-Jan-13 22:33:37

Im so bloody glad you're not my MIL, you've had your turn now let her have hers and catch a grip.her baby is exactly that her baby, and her dhs. So leave them alone to get to know each other and stop being so self centred.

YABU and making a right fool of yourself

sparkle101 Wed 16-Jan-13 22:33:38

Everyone of your posts is littered with: me, I, we. What about your dil? She's just gone through nine months of pregnancy and a birth at the end of it, people pleasing is probably not high on her agenda at the moment.

She has to realise my grandchild is part of a wider family, uh no, you have to understand what she wants to do goes. You have no right, that's no right!

An off to bed and I have a sneaking suspicion this wont be on my threads I'm on in the morning.

spongeypants Wed 16-Jan-13 22:33:49

YABU. Very much so.

You sound like the personification of every MIL from hell that I have seen on here.

SomeKindOfDeliciousBiscuit Wed 16-Jan-13 22:33:51

"Using her role as new mother to date when other family members will meet the baby"

This is your mistake, OP. It is her actual, proper role to do just that. What on earth has made you think it is yours?

Give yourself a good shake. These responses have been harsh but you're not listening to the message. You will hurt yourself if you don't back down and learn how things work now. You have lost your priority to her because she is the mother and you are the grandmother. Take it well or take it badly, it's true and you only harm your relationship with your son and embarrass yourself in front of your extended family with this behaviour.

Frenchspeak Wed 16-Jan-13 22:34:08

Hello amistillsexy

No I haven't cooked them a meal. She's not one for cooking so I will suggest that. Hopefully it will help to build bridges.

I have offered to hold the baby but was only allowed to for a few minutes and she was then grabbed off me.

SugarplumMary Wed 16-Jan-13 22:34:30

It's more that she seems to be using her role as new mother to state when other family members will meet the baby etc

It's 6 weeks - if she is bf that will still be establishing - she is probably still recovering from the birth - and trying to enjoy and find her feet establish a routine get baby to sleep at night. Basically getting used to being a mother.

There are years for the extended family. Tha baby doesn't care about the extended family right now - just need it parents.

Everything seems to be about you. It's not.

amistillsexy Wed 16-Jan-13 22:34:53

She didn't really want my other son to visit, so it's as though what she says goes.

Ermm..yes, I'd say that 'what she says goes' is about right when she's not even 24 hours post-partum, bleeding profusely, wondering if and how she'll ever wee again (let alone take a crap), and trying to breastfeed, after having gone through the equivalent of running a marathon in terms of energy expenditure.

Why the actual fuck would she want your other son to visit her? Why would he want to at that stage? I have two brothers in law, and 3 sons. I've not seen either of my BILs rushing to my bedside the moment I've given birth confused. If they did, I'd find it very strange.

"she needs to realise that my grandchild is part of a wider family. "

Perhaps the members of the wider family need to call your DIL and arrange a visit?

You seem to think that YOU are central to the baby being part of the wider family. Your dil is responsible for that. Now your dil is a mother she is treading on your matriarchal toes and you don't like it...

MammaTJ Wed 16-Jan-13 22:36:41

I'm trying to take on board what people are saying and will also tell my son what people have said

Everything? You mean you will tell him that the overwhelming majority agree with her?

Spuddybean Wed 16-Jan-13 22:36:49

you mean that 'her child' is part of a wider family surely?

Splatt34 Wed 16-Jan-13 22:36:58

when DD was 8 weeks old my parents insisted on being my gran to visit. DH was working.I had to take them and DD out for lung. I was having huge bf issues which i didn't want to discuss with them. The whole day was majorly stressful & I can't think if anything worse than a big family party at that point.

OP at this age babies need their parents. Let's be honest, they are quite dull really, but I didn't anyone else interfering. Play your cards right & before you know it there'll be a toddler they'll be begging you to take if their hands for a few hours. Play it wrong and you risk alienating her for good

forgetmenots Wed 16-Jan-13 22:37:02

French, don't suggest cooking her a meal because she 'not one for cooking', ffs, just cook them something if you want to. To be nice. Don't attach any strings.

notallytuts Wed 16-Jan-13 22:37:09

With regards to the 'in charge' phrasing. I know she is in charge of the baby. It's more that she seems to be using her role as new mother to state when other family members will meet the baby etc.
That's entirely her right, yes.

She didn't really want my other son to visit, so it's as though what she says goes.
That's also entirely her right, if she and her DH agree. Perhaps she has her own reasons for this?

I think she needs to realise that my grandchild is part of a wider family.
I think you need to realise that what is best for you and the wider family isn't necessarily whats best for your DIL and your son and their child. And since its their child, what they say goes...

HildaOgden Wed 16-Jan-13 22:37:32

Op,while you're busy slating your daughter-in-law for this,step back and think...

These decisions have been made by your own son too

Both of the babys' parents have taken this stand.Have a good look at yourself,before it's too late.

SomeKindOfDeliciousBiscuit Wed 16-Jan-13 22:37:35

"She was grabbed off me"

Deal.

Not your new baby.

You are not actually entitled to anything, so anything you get is a gift. Start ring grateful and you'll get more.

OxfordBags Wed 16-Jan-13 22:37:37

You'll tell your son what everyone has said? So basically you will ring him up and inform him that apart from a single poster, eeeeeeeveryone has told you that you are terrifyingly overwhelming, batshit crazy, mind-bogglingly self-obsessed control freak who sees her DIL as a rent-a-womb who has pissed you off by having the audacity not to exist solely to let you take over her child?

Do you have a medical condition that makes you read every word the opposite of what is actually there? Because that could only be the answer for why your posts don't address everything that's being said and even seem to see them as being supportive! Sounds like you're determined to totally ruin things for yourself and, more importantly, oh so much more importantly, ruin this special time for this precious new little family unit, no matter what anyone says. Why even post here?!

Continue like this and you will never be forgiven. And rightly so.

elizaregina Wed 16-Jan-13 22:37:51

I really feel for you French your displaying such manic blindness here. It doesnt sound like your close to your DIl at all - in which case how on earth do you know what she feels like, have you even thought that maybe she just doesnt want to disclose any gory details with you of the birth or PND because she isnt close to you?

Even if she is as right as rain, cant you see how your pushing this - and your attitude is probably what made her not want so many of you there when she prob knows you are all bitching about her behind her back and dont like her - then want to take her baby for a photoshoot, as you said - lots of pics of you and sons and your DH nad baby while she is sat there like the unwanted breeder....

Do you really really expect her to welcome that, or your son...it always AMAZES me when Mils like you sound so horrid to your dils, do you not like your own son, this woman is the woman he has chosen to spend his life with! Do you not think for that alone - whatever you think of her you should try and respect her?

I totally concur with the others that say she is trying to be as polite as possible using excuses why she doesnt want to go to your house for a party instead of saying F OFF>

I feel sorry for you - because of course any grandma wants to share the joy and gets excited etc....but I feel more sorry for your DIL, she has just gone through a major event in her life - and it sounds to me like having to puts rules in place she has already been dreading YOU. Isnt that sad!

havingastress Wed 16-Jan-13 22:38:10

As the mother of an 11wk old, who has a MIL almost exactly like you, let me give you some advice.

Back off now before your DIL decides she doesn't want to see you at all.

I'm this close to telling my MIL to do one.

Her child does NOT belong to you. You are a loon. Here. Have my first ever
biscuit

is now seething inside as this OP's post has brought up all my stressed feelings given to me by my MIL who is also a loon and pushed me to the brink within days of giving birth..and breathe..and breath..

Salmotrutta Wed 16-Jan-13 22:38:18

I also haven't read the whole thread. I don't have the energy and ennui is overcoming me.

BUT - is your DIL also telling her own mum and dad that she and your son need time to be a family?

If she is treating you and them the same then you have no complaint.

That's all.

LineRunner Wed 16-Jan-13 22:38:37

Shy

Not one for cooking

Grabbed off me

Oh, so you think your DIL is some kind of early hominid?

You know what my DMIL did when I had a baby? Bought me some fizzy water because she knows I like it. When I argued with her son in the newborn phase, because I had no sleep and he wasn't being wonderful enough, she bought me flowers.

She is passed away now and I miss her. She was special and wonderful. She was also bossy and could be irritating but managed to curtail that around my baby and my relationship. Because she wasn't bloody stupid. Try to channel her OP.

preggersshock Wed 16-Jan-13 22:39:01

Struggling to see what the problem is here; you DIL is completely right and all credit to her for sticking up for herself! With the greatest of respect; this is not all about you.

ShiftyFades Wed 16-Jan-13 22:39:15

Wow, I'm shocked at this OP, I really did have no idea MILs like you really existed.

I do have some questions for you (sadly similar to unanswered ones up thread):

What help have you offered DIL?
Have you done any washing?
Any ironing?
Cleaning perhaps?
Taken baby for a short walk so DIL can wash in peace?

My MIL stayed for 10 days when my DS was 2 weeks old (lives other end of country). She cooked, she cleaned, she washed, she ironed. She looked after DS whilst I showered, she made me tea, "walked the floor" when he cried.
She was an angel.
She wasn't doing it to gain a medal, she did it because she's considerate, kind and nice.
Not once did she criticise any of what I was doing (and I was far more dictating of visitors and times etc), she just supported me and her son while we adjusted to OUR child's arrival.

Cut your family (I mean your DIL) some slack and help out, THAT'S what makes a good grandparent.

No I haven't cooked them a meal. She's not one for cooking so I will suggest that. Hopefully it will help to build bridges.

That is the first reasonable thing you've posted. That would be a lovely first step.

I have offered to hold the baby but was only allowed to for a few minutes and she was then grabbed off me.

That's pretty normal with a newborn. If you are supportive and laid back, she will become more relaxed and your cuddles with your grandchild will get much longer. Hell, give it a few months and if she feel comfortable with you she will be chucking the baby to you so she can have 5 smile

CabbageLeaves Wed 16-Jan-13 22:40:18

IT'S NOT YOUR BABY

Stop your passive aggressive whining FGS. Google passive aggressive whining domineering MiL and see if you can find a cure

Stop your passive aggressive criticism of your DiL. Every utterance is a negative drip about the mother of this child (the most precious person to this child). <<<<< Get that fact

You are a bystander.

Whether you are involved will depend entirely on your behaviour. You do not have rights.

I love my mum and she was very much involved but she didn't force her way in ever. Respectful, caring and thinking of ME not herself. I'd have felt the same about a MiL who behaved that way

Rosa Wed 16-Jan-13 22:40:24

No the mother of your grandchild needs support not orders. She has a new baby and is adjusting to a life with the baby. Don't put pressure on your son as its not fair on him. Forget the family party to 'present' the baby . Just be thankful that you have a lovely grandchild , don't ruin what relationship you could have with your DIL and the baby as you could end up with not having a relationship at all with either. Give them time and try to remember the hard times when you had your first baby...not just the easy bits.

LineRunner Wed 16-Jan-13 22:41:12

OxfordBags I was assuming the OP will be reading out the posts from the one poster who agreed with her and then stop.

fedupdownhere Wed 16-Jan-13 22:41:24

I think your wrong on so many levels with this and I say this as a grandmother of 10 this is your son and daughter in laws baby 1st and for most, you are only the childs grandmother and deffinatly not the most important person it doesnt matter what you want, it doesnt matter what the rest of the family want and unless you want to be left out of the childs life then you best get that in your head I have a DIL just like yours and I can honestly say she will ring for advise ask me to baby sit ect but its on her terms as it should be I stood back let her do things her way and only offered what was asked for I see my DGC as often as possible and I am very close to her.

"she's not one for cooking"

How did I miss the implications of that sentence? hmm

NaturalBaby Wed 16-Jan-13 22:42:27

Maybe she just didn't want to see you and your family within hours of giving birth - she was hardly looking and feeling her best was she? (to be blunt)
Give the girl a break - she has just given birth!

If she doesn't want uncle joe to hole her baby then guess what - he doesn't get to hold the baby. Particularly not just because you want him to. You obviously can't relate to how she is feeling so just try to accept that she is doing the very best she can, but her husband and her baby are the her priorities.

OxfordBags Wed 16-Jan-13 22:42:53

'Not one for entertaining'. 'Not one for cooking'. You are lovely, aren't you?

I think you're bloody lucky she agreed to see your other son and his partner at all. The thought of seeing my BILs and partners after birth makes me feel physically sick imagining it right now. They had no rights to see the baby then. The only rights that mattered then and now, were your Gc and DIL. End of story,

amistillsexy Wed 16-Jan-13 22:43:31

I have offered to hold the baby but was only allowed to for a few minutes and she was then grabbed off me.

I suggest you read up on Attachment Parenting, OP. It might explain where your DIL is coming from. It is of vital importance that babies are given time to bond with their primary carer, and not passed around. This was not a common idea when you had your children, but it is now. I would not allow my babies to be passed around either, and if someone else was holding them and they woke up, or wimpered, I would immediately take over, so I could meet their needs right away.

Today, I briefley saw a friend who has recently given birth. I had picked up her older child from school for her. She answered the door holding her baby, and I would have loved a cuddle. She said 'He's only just stopped crying', and I knew that was code for 'please don't touch him, I don't want him unsettling again', so I asked if she needed anything fetching before I left. She asked me to do a couple of little things and I left. No cuddle. I'm happy, because I know she's doing the best for her baby, and I was happy to give her the help she needed.

Please consider asking her what she wants, and talk to her about her ideas about parenting. You might find some common understanding!

LineRunner Wed 16-Jan-13 22:43:39

To be honest she probably detests you.

Salmotrutta Wed 16-Jan-13 22:44:13

And by the way, please don't bulldoze your son and DIL.

Be kind, be helpful when asked. Keep your loony opinions to yourself. And just be there if needed.

Quite simple really.

PoppyWearer Wed 16-Jan-13 22:44:29

Wow, just wow.

My PILs came to visit us the day after we were discharged from hospital with DC1, and I was utterly dismayed when they showed up with BIL in tow as well.

Trying to bf for one of the first times ever in front of FIL was bad enough (am still not sure the blanket I used covered everything) but with BIL there too...mortifying. When I took myself off into another room, MIL walked in! Seriously, boundaries? This is not your child, this is your GRANDchild!!

My MIL called the shots when DC1 was born. Not with DC2. Not ever, with anything, ever again.

My Mum was the only person allowed anywhere near us for that first day with DC2 (fair enough as she babysat DC1). and she was tactful enough to leave after an hour, maybe less. PILs were allowed when we said and not before, and DH took them out and crucially away from me for lunch.

We now apply this rule to everything, have already discussed with DH that we will not be seeing them on Mother's Day (we did it last year as she insisted, not this year). Not Christmas. Not Easter. Our DCs and us come first now.

Please learn from this, OP!

I really hope this is a wind up.

DillyDallyDayDream Wed 16-Jan-13 22:44:35

Jeeeeeez and I though my MIL was bad!

Take one huge leap back & them your son and DIL be parents to THEIR baby,

Or wave bye bye to your grandchild

Alligatorpie Wed 16-Jan-13 22:45:40

Please listen to the overwhelming majority here. It is not about you. Keep this up and you will lose them for good.

"Shes not one for cooking."

I suppose you fear that your poor son isnt being looked after properly.

I feel very sorry for your DIL. What a nightmare to have to deal with after giving birth. You will get cut out. No one could live with this long term.

Frenchspeak Wed 16-Jan-13 22:47:08

Hello Salmotrutta. Her Mum was at the hospital when she gave birth. I understand that because her mum was there for her daughter, not granddaughter. Obviously there can be complications so her mum wanted to be there for her child. But her parents gave us time to ourselves when we first visited. Her Mum has been at the house a couple of times when I have but usually has a little chat then goes to read a magazine, walk the dog etc.

MrsHuxtable Wed 16-Jan-13 22:47:24

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

OP, you are not normal!

Signet2012 Wed 16-Jan-13 22:47:31

If I where your DIL I'd be running for the hills. You sound completely and utterly Barmy and a tad scary.

I would hope your son doesn't Agree with you. I would think he is probably under the clutches of a toxic mother and doesn't dare say anything other.

Poor woman. She isn't a gift wrap for your grandchild.

How dare you treat someone like that?!

TheJanuaryProject Wed 16-Jan-13 22:47:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

elizaregina Wed 16-Jan-13 22:47:43

French

my mil was like you and she has shattered what was left of the relationship with her DS days after our DD was born, she pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed....she did see her GC but it was never enough, and she didnt even know about the next GC - as we couldnt BEAR to tell her, she hasnt seen her - its been bliss - everything round this whole pregnancy and birth has been BLISS - and calm and wonderful because she hasnt been involved and she wont be involved either.

I really hope you listen to the other posters. I dont have much family support and I would have loved to be able to go to hers - have a wonderful meal - have her help with baby - but SHE and her mad - manic controlling attitude WHICH SOUNDS LIKE YOU - has made it impossible.

Peka Wed 16-Jan-13 22:49:07

What's up French. I had to take my 4 week old son to one of these gatherings organised by my mother in law. It was HIDEOUS! He wanted to bf all the time because of all the fuss and noise but all the comfy seats were taken so I had to feed him in the bedroom where there were no chairs and I was struggling with serious pain bf and my nipples were raw by the end of it. MIL got a bit huffy because baby wasn't in the room with her and other family members much (due to feeding) and also he slept all the time at that age so when not feeding was asleep. Suffice to say it wasn't a very interactive getting to know you session. I was definitely the walking womb/milk factory when it came to that party and not really acknowledged at all as it was my MIL's grandson IYSWIM. TBH I knew what I was signing up for when I married my DH and sucked it up for family peace but I was fairly scarred by the whole experience.

Bearing in mind as a new mum you're probably still bleeding at this stage, getting an average of 2 hours sleep a night and if it's your first you're worried the wrong angle of sunlight might disturb them from the carefully constructed illusion of a routine, it can feel like a huge trauma just fetching in the milk. At 8 weeks baby is also likely to be colicky and cry quite a bit...

Can you imagine waiting a little while longer for this party? Perhaps until 4 months old? It will be much more fun for all involved and the new mum might even feel able to put on a bit of make up and enjoy being congratulated on her achievement and it will help you to bond with all of your new family. You will have the rest of your life with your grandchild. My MIL was known to cry 'she'll never give him to me!' but I did you know...

Bobyan Wed 16-Jan-13 22:49:25

I love your DIL she sounds my kind of woman, you on the other hand...

AppleOgies Wed 16-Jan-13 22:49:27

Crikey so it wasn't a reverse AIBU. <shocked>

sudaname Wed 16-Jan-13 22:49:44

it sounds to me as if you want to be present and overseeing everybody meeting the baby for first time. You have never been told you are not welcome or cant see baby - merely that you must only visit in twos. It seems though that you didnt want to miss out on your other son and his partner seeing the baby on their own. Same with this party you seem keen to organise so everyone can meet the baby. Surely everyone who matters can meet the baby still abiding by the two at a time request obviously in the usual manner of visiting the parents at home. But oh no - wait a minute - that means you wouldnt be there to see it and to hear everything thats said etc.
You just come across as a self centred FOMO type person to me.

SomethingProfound Wed 16-Jan-13 22:50:11

Do you like your DIL?

dearcathyandclare Wed 16-Jan-13 22:50:40

Hi OP you are certainly getting a hard time tonight, but just to add my thought into the mix I think you should feel proud that you have brought up a son who is able to protect his wife at this stage of their lives together.
Without knowing the bigger picture have you been able to support her in the past few weeks by helping with all the mundane things of life, like taking round a meal, popping over to let her have a sleep or even offering to pay for a cleaner or ironing service if you don't live locally?
When she feels able to trust and rely on you I expect your relationship will improve.
As for the family party I think her being there with the baby for 2 hours will be enough for everyone, guests included as after a few minutes of cooing most people will be ready to move on to more interesting things to talk about, regardless of how wondrous this child is to you.

IamtheZombie Wed 16-Jan-13 22:50:50

Zombie is quite simply aghast.

LineRunner Wed 16-Jan-13 22:51:36

Yes, OP, I'd go and walk the dog or find a magazine to read or a bunker to hide in if you were around, too.

notallytuts Wed 16-Jan-13 22:51:38

Her Mum has been at the house a couple of times when I have but usually has a little chat then goes to read a magazine, walk the dog etc.

Take lessons from her. Helpful and unobtrusive!

ledkr Wed 16-Jan-13 22:52:24

You have probably messed up too much already op.
My fil did in the very early days and now they hardly see their granddaughter because I can't forgive them thus don't like them.
Dh supports me because he knows how badly they behaved when she was born and also because he is my husband! Yes he's loyal to me because we are married and we are his priority and she should never have put him in the situation in the first place.
So I think the damage is done.

larks35 Wed 16-Jan-13 22:52:24

Haven't read the whole thread just skimmed to check it wasn't a reverse one.

OP, my first thought when I read the title was your son's wife is your daughter-in-law. The fact you don't even write it that way speaks volumes to me about how you feel about her. And I'm sure she's picked up on this.

I wouldn't have wanted any negative people around me in the early days of either of my children. Fortunately, my DP's mum isn't in the least bit negative, critical or judgemental about how I am as a partner to her son or as a mum to her GCs. Because of this I had her, her DP, my SIL and nephew and neice come for a weekend when my DC1 was just 2 weeks old. It was great!

Perhaps if you could look beyond your role as a grand-mother, and actually consider your son's wife as a member of your family and give her the consideration she is due and treat her as such, then maybe she won't find these parties you want to plan so hard to even contemplate!

Littlebearlost Wed 16-Jan-13 22:52:29

I'm going to have to hide this thread. It's enraging me and making me want to phone my own selfish mil and shout at her.
If I ever have another baby I will be putting my foot down with her like your dil is doing with you.

PoppyWearer Wed 16-Jan-13 22:53:01

"not one for cooking". I missed that too. How did I miss that?!

OP, I would suggest that you don't know your DIL at all.

According to my MIL, I don't cook/sew/iron/clean and am generally a useless wife to her DS and mother to her GCs. She tells other people this as if it's true, I've heard her!

She is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Wrong! I do all of these things. She doesn't know me at all!

"not one for cooking". She's just had a baby, FFS, they can live on ready meals if needed. Spending time with the baby is the most important thing she should be doing. Save the cooking, and the martyrdom, buy them some vouchers from "Cook" instead.

Somebody, please TELL me this is a wind up?!?!!

Peka Wed 16-Jan-13 22:54:23

I'm actually finding this thread quite therapeutic, as I went through this (on DIL receiving end) and survived it! I'm definitely a stronger woman as a result. Although I'm not sure that is the intended consequence!

swizzles Wed 16-Jan-13 22:54:34

Complete wind up.

OP gets everyone's back up and returns very occasionally to stoke the fire with a very short post directed at answering one person's question in formulaic style.

Utter bollocks.

pixwix Wed 16-Jan-13 22:54:34

...and is your son 'not one for cooking' either?

Frenchspeak Wed 16-Jan-13 22:55:29

Hello PoppyWearer. She has never cooked very much, it's not a recent thing from when baby was born.

Salmotrutta Wed 16-Jan-13 22:56:15

French - so basically her own mum isn't interfering and demanding. Even giving you private visiting time.

When my DD gave birth (twice) she didn't want even me interfering, poking my nose in, demanding to hold parties etc.

My own MIL is in many ways a generous and helpful woman. BUT she likes to "take charge" even when she has no right to do so. It has led to a lot of resentment. Even from her own daughter.

Be warned. You will isolate yourself into a lonely old age.

elizaregina Wed 16-Jan-13 22:56:17

Mil tell me one thing you sound like all the other dreadful mils out there - is there a special training school for you all? is there a book the nightmare critical MIL...how to be one..

Aspiemum2 Wed 16-Jan-13 22:56:27

Oh god I bloody love my mil!

Your dil sounds awesome, your dgc is lucky to have a mother with the balls to stand up to people like you. This thread has actually utterly disgusted me.
How about giving a new mum a break from your demands and tantrums? Stop being a petulant child and allow her time to establish a routine with HER baby.

Back off, your ds has other priorities now - you are lower down than you were. Push him and he will choose his wife and child.

Still can't believe this isn't a reverse but no it's

Aibu?

YES YES 100x YES

No I'm not <pouty face>

Nightmare......think I might send my lovely, not interfering mil some flowers!

SamSmalaidh Wed 16-Jan-13 22:57:07

French, if you don't stop being such a nightmare now, your son and DIL may never forgive you and you will find yourself completely shut out of your granddaughter's life.

HildaOgden Wed 16-Jan-13 22:57:31

I really hope your other (future) daughter-in-law is watching all this carefully...

I feel sorry for you OP as your other son does not have access to transport. Do he and his girlfriend not drive, or can they not afford a car? You must feel like such a failure.

FWIW my MIL hosted a party for her family to see DD2 at 2 weeks old. I went gladly, because she is lovely, treats me with respect and asked me nicely. She was fully prepared for me to say no. We went and it was fine. Because DPs family talked to ME aswell as looking at DD2. I was treated like royalty because they understood what a fragile time it is for new parents.

I think that your general attitude has led to the two vistors rule being imposed and the refusal to attend a party, more so than being home with a newborn.

It sounds as though you treat your DIL like shit, with no regard for her feelings. Are you really surprised your son might want to protect his wife and new baby from that?

Frenchspeak Wed 16-Jan-13 22:58:39

Hello SomethingProfound. I don't dislike her but she is difficult to get along with. She is very quiet and introverted. She is a nice person but there have been a few ups and downs. I do accept this might have led to the situation being as it is now.

It's been difficult because we are a very close family and she didn't get this even in the early days of dating my son.

elizaregina Wed 16-Jan-13 22:58:39

agree swizzles -

even the tone of the writing makes me wonder is it a writer in disguise doing this for research or boredom or an article? the tone and style seem familiar somehow - even someone perhaps who isnt married or has children but is a journo?

geekette Wed 16-Jan-13 22:58:53

French!!!
Please, please, be a wind up...

With every post, you just sound more and more like a control freak.

You want to show your love for your family. Very good. Nicely put.
Now let the mother of a child do what is best for that child? With a newborn this starts with making the mother comfortable because only then can she take care of her baby?

Yes you can get a fabulous picture of your pfb precious first grandchild precious child king (ok ok I'll get it right now) newest member of the family but surely it is best when this is done at convenient time and place for the newborn and the people who get to decide what is convenient are the parents?

Try not to make it a "my wants" against "her decisions" game.

But I doubt you'll listen even if you are genuine. You are too far up your own arse to smell the coffee...

amistillsexy Wed 16-Jan-13 22:59:25

But French, don't you realise it's the way you say it that is giving us the impression that you have a very low opinion of your DIL. To say someone is 'not one for...' something sounds very dismissive! If you'd said, 'Oh, yes, good idea, I'll cook a meal for them. That will be useful as I know they don't enjoy/have time for cooking', that would be non-judgemental.

Frenchspeak Wed 16-Jan-13 22:59:33

Hello elizaregina. I assure you I am not a journalist or anything or the sort.

titchy Wed 16-Jan-13 23:00:11

I KNOW this is a wind-up but still keep hitting refresh smile

LineRunner Wed 16-Jan-13 23:01:49

Nah, you are not a close family. Everyone you come into contact with tries to escape from you.

PoppyWearer Wed 16-Jan-13 23:01:53

"She has never cooked very much."

Again, something my MIL would say about me. Because her DS, my DH, takes charge of all big family meals, he enjoys it, i don't. She never sees me cook, and therefore believes I don't ever cook.

Just like she thinks my DH hates tomatoes and loves various foods he did when he was 8yo.

Yet somehow my DCs and I survive when DH isn't there, because, oh, wait, I cook for them and I.

Please. Don't be patronising. Anyone can cook, it's just not her priority in life. Many women these days defer to their OHs in the kitchen because cooking day-in, day-out is boring beyond belief!

French, YABVVVU so much I feel tears of rage.

However, I agree with what Cathy said re your son. you should be proud as it sounds as though youve brought him up v well and he is now focusing on protecting his family. Because DIL and their baby are his family.

spongeypants Wed 16-Jan-13 23:02:30

Op, read what shiftyshades said. How lovely. I have no Mother or MIl but reading that, I really want yours!!!

The Op will get her just deserts as her DIL, who seems to have a rod of iron running up her backbone, will eventually tell her to do one.

Frenchspeak Wed 16-Jan-13 23:02:57

Hello HildaOgden. My other son's girlfriend is quite chatty, enjoys sewing and baking. We have lots in common and she always makes an effort to attend family gatherings.

moggiek Wed 16-Jan-13 23:03:02

Frenchspeak, do you think this could be a generational thing? I had my first child in 1979, and it was expected that any family members, no matter how extended, who felt like it could turn up when they wanted for a 'nurse at the baby'. Oh, how I wished that I could just say no! I was sore and weepy and struggled with my new responsibility, but it just wasn't the done thing to refuse. I think that young women now are much better at doing just that.

Salmotrutta Wed 16-Jan-13 23:03:07

Actually, I should say my MIL was a helpful,woman. She's quite old now and she needs our help.

But then again, I drew a line in the sand years ago - and now we have an understanding. So we rub along because we know how to.

Best get your act together OP. seriously. Or you will regret it.

PickledApples Wed 16-Jan-13 23:03:55

Son's wife (not daughter in law)
MY grandchild.
Put my foot down.
Throw a party?!
Grabbed the baby back.
Not one for cooking.

<wipes tear from eye>

Is that you, Hyacinth?
It sounds like Sheridan has settled down to a lovely little family life. Sorry to hear you limelight has been skewed somewhat. Perhaps a candlelight supper would be more in order?

OP you come across as rather egocentric and controlling. Your son has two more females in his life who come first now, cool off - back off and stop taking everything so personally, you will only push them further away. Start choosing an outfit for yourself for the Christening in the meantime - the more understated, the better.

PoppyWearer Wed 16-Jan-13 23:03:56

"We are a very close family"

To me reads:

"I have no life outside of my family and cannot bear to have an empty nest, so will go and sit in theirs."

halfthesize Wed 16-Jan-13 23:04:24

I really hope OP reads out OxfordBags post, it said everything I wanted to say.wink

Your poor DIL and DS, I really feel for them...

ledkr Wed 16-Jan-13 23:05:00

Hello frenchspeak! Would you have left your eight week old with family at a party and gone home alone?

elizaregina Wed 16-Jan-13 23:05:30

pickledapples grin

This is Hyacinth!

Salmotrutta Wed 16-Jan-13 23:05:39

Oh god. I just read your last post.

Are you Mrs Beeton?