To think it's no wonder Royal Mail delivery men get bitten by dogs so often.

(55 Posts)
D0oinMeCleanin Wed 16-Jan-13 14:32:04

When normal people knock on my door, in a normal way, my dogs do as they've been trained to do and go to their beds.

When the lovely lady from Hermes knocks on my door in a nice, normal way, the dogs go to their beds.

When my Dad knocks on my door, the dogs sense it is him and wait patiently in the hall until I let him upon which they dive at him with gusto.

When Royal Mail knock on my door in the way at only Royal Mail do, I jump so far out my seat I almost hit ceiling, Whippy runs terrified into her crate and Devil Dog decides he must protect the house from the person trying to break down the front door at all costs, including snapping at me when I restrain him to get him into a different room, before they attempt to kick the door in again knock again, which they inevitably do.

I would complain but I have a feeling bad things might start happening to my mail but it is really necessary for them to knock so loud it would wake the dead? Really?! I can't be the only person who has problems with Royal Mail couriers scaring them half to death?

nickelbabe Wed 16-Jan-13 14:33:33

you should tell your PO that his knock is driving your dogs mad.

they will advise your postie to knock in a better way.
it's their safety at stake here.

Sirzy Wed 16-Jan-13 14:35:29

I guess the reason they knock so loud is so people hear they are there so they aren't missed as happens a lot.

Why not get a doorbell?

D0oinMeCleanin Wed 16-Jan-13 14:37:11

Just knocking in a normal way would do. If I hadn't been expecting a parcel today and did not already have experience of Royal Mail and their hammering of my door, I would have assumed we were being burgled and would have joined Whippy in her crate.

It's not normal I tell, ye! It must hurt his hand too, it can't not hurt, I surprised he hasn't broken his knuckles by now.

tiggytape Wed 16-Jan-13 14:39:46

If they knocked more quietly and loads of people missed the post because they were hoovering / in the shower / upstairs and didn't hear, RM would be flooded with complaints about people are having to go out to collect their parcels when they were home all the time.

Our postman knocks like he's hammering the door down as well. I assume they are told to so that people don't miss it.

D0oinMeCleanin Wed 16-Jan-13 14:40:06

A doorbell? Duh! Yes, why indeed not?

Why are the obvious things always the last things that occur to me?

How much are doorbells though? It's only Royal Mail I have this issue with. I don't want shell out a fortune, spend days retraining the dogs to respond correctly to a doorbell, just because my post man is has superhuman, unbreakable knuckles grin

<goes to Google doorbells>

tiggytape Wed 16-Jan-13 14:40:40

...and we have a doorbell but he still knocks loudly anyway. That's why I assumed they must be told to.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Wed 16-Jan-13 14:43:09

YABU. They knock at the door so you will hear it and open it - it is not their job to consider what sort of knock will send your dog into a vicious frenzy.

Seabird72 Wed 16-Jan-13 14:44:31

I have a loud doorbell and people STILL choose to knock!

D0oinMeCleanin Wed 16-Jan-13 14:44:46

It's not their job to scare the crap out me either, but they do! No other delivery company do this. Only Royal Mail.

EuroShagmore Wed 16-Jan-13 14:49:17
freddiefrog Wed 16-Jan-13 14:54:13

We have the same thing with our postie (and dog)

We have a doorbell which everyone else who comes to our door manages to use. Our dog ignores the bell.

Postman however always bangs on it so hard it sounds like he's attempting to break in - dog goes mad.

We've asked the postman many times not to knock like that as it winds up the dog and we then have to grab him and shut him in another room all the while postie is continuing to bang so it takes longer for us to answer the door

The bell works fine, it's loud enough that you can hear it from outside so it's not like you might think it doesn't work.

Just use the bloody bell!!!!

D0oinMeCleanin Wed 16-Jan-13 14:54:17

It doesn't sound like they'll use a doorbell going on what other posters are saying?

I might get one anyway and hope for the best. I don't want to have to stop using Amazon and don't want to train the dog not to respond to people sounding like they are coming at my door with a battering ram, that's his job, to scare away people trying to get in who shouldn't be trying to get in!

I do apologise for the length of time it takes me to get to the door and explain to him that I need to calm the dog because he is not used to people hammering on the door like that and it causes him to become defensive but he never listens/remembers.

GrimmaTheNome Wed 16-Jan-13 14:55:57

I have no idea how our postie (or anyone else) knocks, or if the doorbell is working at the moment - DDog detects anyone approaching the door and announces their arrival. (I've no idea how to train him out of this given that he detects the person way before I do, and I'm usually upstairs in the office.)

But at least it means we always know when someone is there and I'm pretty sure no-one will ever walk in unannounced!

Pandemoniaa Wed 16-Jan-13 14:57:32

We've got a perfectly good doorbell. It doesn't stop one of our postmen managing to make his visit sound like a dawn raid from Special Branch though.
This drives the dog potty so it goes downstairs and scampers about on the sitting room windowsill trying to sound ferocious.

This particular postmen doesn't like dogs and there was one memorable occasion when he clearly thought I was out because he decided his relationship with the dog would be improved by shouting "Shut the Fuck Up you Little Bastard" through the letterbox.

IsabelleRinging Wed 16-Jan-13 14:59:59

My postie does exactly the same, makes me jump a mile EVERY time, meter reader man does the same. Others just use the knocker in a normal manner and we never miss them. if you are in, you are in nd will hear a normal knock. If you are out you won't answer the door no matter how loud they knock.

Birnamwood Wed 16-Jan-13 15:04:01

Getting a doorbell will just double the problem, my postie rings the doorbell AND bangs on the door. Black dog goes absolutely berserk and rips the back of the letterbox off. White dog just barks cos he wants to be with the cool kids.
One day, after he's waken the baby for the fifty millionth time I'm going to hand him the baby and shut the door.

HoneyDragon Wed 16-Jan-13 15:04:26

Our posties fine. DHL man does door breaking knock immediately followed by letterbox flapping and peering through.
One day I will unleash the hound upon him mid gawp.

Birnamwood Wed 16-Jan-13 15:05:53

Hand the baby to the postman, that is. Not white dog. White dog would just sit on ds until he quietens down.

BadMissM Wed 16-Jan-13 15:07:25

My DH is a postman.... they are told to knock loudly, as if people miss the delivery, they then ask for redelivery, which they haven't, literally, got time to do.

He regualrly gets bitten by peoples' dogs who are left free to roam, or given free access to the back of the letterbox. Postmen don't really like dogs on the whole, as they get bitten many times a year, and Royal Mail will do nothing about the problem. They have suggested mailboxes on the edge of the property, (like the rest of Europe) so they don't have accidents on peoples' treacherous drives and steps, and they can avoid the vicious dogs, but Royal Mail refuse...

He has to deliver in rain, snow, gales (we live in a seaside town)...

Their rounds have become longer, and harder, and they have to take more and more, by foot. He used to start early and finish reasonably early. He now starts early and finishes late- not on overtime, just having to finish the round.

So, they are under a lot of pressure to deliver ever more mail, and they are told to knock, in case the doorbell is not working.

D0oinMeCleanin Wed 16-Jan-13 16:37:02

It sounds awful for your DH BadMissM, usually I am on the delivery persons side, but this is no normal loud knock.

I have tried to get my dog to bark like that when DH has fallen asleep on the sofa with his keys in the lock and locked me out, in the end I had to go and get one of dd2's beating sticks to bash the door with, it was the only way I could create the same level of noise without breaking my hand shock

It does sound like it could be Royal Mail management I need to talk to about this, if the driver has been told to knock this way.

FWIW when I realised my dog had a thing for the letter box he was kept away from it until he was trained to ignore it and all that comes through it with the assistance of informed, consenting adults, not the local postie.

We had a delivery this morning and the delivery driver pressed the doorbell while hammering on the door and continued hammering on the door until DH got to it to open it. Bearing in mind we are obviously the top floor of a maisonette it was pretty damn obvious we wouldn't be able to open the door the very instant he started trying to bash it open knocking.

Unsurprisingly DS's nap ended at that point. hmm

I did open the door once to find the delivery driver kicking the door rather than knocking. confused

LovesGSD Wed 16-Jan-13 17:13:32

Lol this post made me actual laugh out loud! My postie rings the doorbell but rings it 5 times!!!

maddening Wed 16-Jan-13 17:21:16

Not my postie - after he had me answering the door in hushed tones due to ds napping he now knocks v quietly.

Also if he has a parcel and can't deliver but sees my car on the way back he will pop back with the parcel smile

MuddlingMackem Wed 16-Jan-13 17:24:39

YANBU.

We had the problem that our postie would knock on the door. Unfortunately you can only hear that when you're in the living room which, early on a Saturday morning, we usually aren't. We did manage to train him to use the doorbell, which can be heard in most of the house, although it did take a while as we only managed to speak to him if he happened to knock when one of us was in the living room. grin

It's a pain when we have a stand-in who doesn't know the system and, as a result, have missed a few parcels when we have been home.

I can't understand why Royal Mail insist posties knock. Surely if a household has a bell they are more attuned to listen for that than someone knocking? They really should ring the bell first and knock if no answer just in case the bell isn't working. confused

DreamingOfTheMaldives Wed 16-Jan-13 17:26:53

How have you trained your dog to go his bed? I assume be getting someone to keep knocking on the door and sending your dog to bed. And repeat.

I've trained my dog to 'quiet' when he barks at someone knocking but he insists on standing at the door wagging his tail like something possessed and trying to get to whoever has come to the door because he wants a fuss. He knows 'bed' very well so may have to try training him to go to bed when someone knocks. Although I sometimes don't mind the bark at the door if it's late when someone knocks. His bark sounds scary despite him being a fluffy labradoodle that couldn't actually scare his own shadow if it were to see him

D0oinMeCleanin Wed 16-Jan-13 17:35:51

I sent out a small child to repeatedly knock, small children are good at this I find grin

And then I'd run to the dogs bed when they knocked with a handful of treats and praised like mad when they got to bed. I have two dogs, both with beds in different rooms, but Whippy is normally polite and non bolt-y anyway so trained Devil Dog first with Whippy in a room away from the door and then repeated with her once he'd got it.

He nows runs to his bed and waits for his treat when anyone other then Royal Mail knock, occasionally I re-inforce this by giving him a treat before answering the door, but only if it is someone I know has the time to wait a minute and I have treats handy. He still barks at the door, he just does it from his bed now grin

As a postie you really can't win. I started just before xmas, haven't been on the same round more than 3 days running.

I'd much rather deliver the parcel than not (and have to carry the thing round for the rest of the day) so I do tend to ring the bell and knock on the door. And then wait. And wait. And then write out the red card and walk down the drive at which point some snotty bugger finally opens the door and moans that i havent left enough time....

How am I meant to know if the bell works, where you are in the house, if your tv or radio are on loud, if you are hard of hearing or have a sleeping baby?

Plus, bigger parcels will be delivered by a man in a van so even if I know a route and all my customers it won't necessary be me delivering to you...

Not saying it's not annoying for you, but have a heart, most of us enjoy our jobs and genuinely are trying to get your stuff to you as quickly and fuss-free as possible grin

MuddlingMackem Wed 16-Jan-13 18:01:29

Well some delivery people ring the bell then promptly rap on the door as well. I guess that's the best way to cover all bases, and it only takes an extra couple of seconds. Which is probably worth it if it means you can offload a parcel you would otherwise be stuck with. smile

digerd Wed 16-Jan-13 19:02:33

I shall never forget the episode I had in Germany30 years ago. Postie had to come into garden as he had a big parcel for me which I had to sign for. Didn't see him coming and my Dachshund was outside at the back. I was alerted by the dog's barking, so went outside.
Postie was doing the kicking Can Can low down as dog has short legs but a big muzzle and big teeth shouting " Go away" hysterically. the more aggressive Postie got the more aggressive dog got. So I bent down to pick up dog and got kicked by Postle on my Thumb joint, which swelled up, and still swollen 30 years on, but not painful just stiff now.

Ambrosiacreamedrice Wed 16-Jan-13 19:22:12

My postman makes my porch shake when he bangs. Just before Christmas I was shaken awake at 7:20 am on a Saturday by the knocking, only to find he had a parcel for next door he wanted to leave. I was not impressed that he'd nearly knocked the front of my house for that.

mademred Wed 16-Jan-13 19:22:31

My dh was medically retired from rm after almost 20yrs service.he was never told to knock loud but to obviously deliver all he could.as for dogs biting them, a postie can refuse to deliver to that address until the dog is secure , and the owner would need to collect the post from the post office.royal mail also sue the owners of dogs if their employees get bitten.after all they are doing a job we all take for granted for rubbish pay and now longer hours in all kinds of weather and as my dh is finding out, with long term affects on health.( knackered knees)!

TinyDancingHoofer Wed 16-Jan-13 19:30:26

I'm hearing impaired so quite happy with my loud knocking postie. You can get please knock quietly signs.

FloatyBeatie Wed 16-Jan-13 19:32:37

I'm really grateful to my postman. He is always good-natured about the fact that my terrier curses him in seven dialects of shouting dog; he always takes the extra trouble to make sure I get packages; and he is always smiling.

Postal workers often get a hard time from their employers and I'd hate to add to my postie's troubles. I would feel mortified if my dog ever nipped him.

PhallicGiraffe Wed 16-Jan-13 19:53:05

Rofl, so what you are saying OP Is that postmen deserve to get bitten because they knock too loud? What an idiotic thread.

A postman knocks loud because he wants to deliver the packet. Doorbells mostly don't work - knocking is the only way to be sure of being heard. If you have psychotic aggressive biting dogs, then that is YOUR problem to sort out.

Preposteroushypothesis Wed 16-Jan-13 20:04:46

They will both use the doorbell and bang your door off its hinges! I understand they do it because people get cross if they don't hear them knock and miss a delivery but still tis annoying.

I am a childminder and my postie frequently arrives 30 seconds after I have painstakingly put all my mindees down for their nap, rings the doorbell twice and bangs on the door furiously like he's trying to alert me of a fire or something. All before I have even had a chance to draw breath. It makes me stabby

skullcandy Wed 16-Jan-13 20:15:56

She isnt saying they deserve it at all, what a stupid thing to say.

she's saying she isnt surprised they do when the way they knock startles peoples and dogs alike!

Actually wrt to knocking in case door bells don't work, two things,

1. I used to live in a 2nd floor flat, which was fairly evident from the fact our address was "Flat 3", we once caught a postie knocking on the door, we pointed out that the address was "Flat 3" and we were unlikely to hear the door, being quite a distance from it.

2. I've lost count of how many of them hammer on the door without even bothering to try the bell. Inevitably I'll get down to the door (have always lived in upstairs flats, hence the need for a doorbell, not a knocker) and say, "oh, is the doorbell not working?", to be told that it isn't and they've been ringing it for ages. Of course if I then test it I can hear, loud and clear, the sound of the doorbell.

3. The postie doesn't know if the residents are actually deaf, in which case knocking without bothering with the doorbell isn't going to achieve a hell of a lot. They need the doorbell to give a visible sign.

I totally get ringing the bell and then knocking. Makes sense.
I get knocking on the door quite hard. Also makes sense.

I don't get not bothering to use the doorbell.
I don't get hammering on the door until someone gets to it (aside from being annoying it can also be intimidating)
I don't get kicking the door (same reasons as above)

Most posties are great and are doing a hard job. But some really are just arseholes.

Edit: I wrote 2 things and meant 3. Too many painkillers fuzzing my brain.

Vagaceratops Wed 16-Jan-13 21:01:51

Mine always hammers on the door, then on the bay window.

You would have to be in a coma not to hear him.

He ignores the bell too.

BadMissM Wed 16-Jan-13 23:34:34

Royal Mail don't sue owners of dogs that bite Posties.... Dog Wardens are not interested as Posties have to go onto owners' property to deliver, so, is not the public highway. If posties refuse to deliver to certain addresses repeatedly they get in trouble, never mind the dog.

My DH is told to hammer on the door (town full of retired people), and they still ring up and make complaints because they 'haven't heard him'. He said it would be wonderful if someone put up signs such as 'please use doorbell, sleeping children', or 'please use doorbell, hearing issues', but they can't be psychic. They also very rarely do the same route...

That said, by the law of averages, there will be some Postmen who are arses, just like any other job....

D0oinMeCleanin Thu 17-Jan-13 00:43:29

If I thought they deserved to be bitten I wouldn't bother to restrain him and lock him in a room away from the front door, would I? I'd just leave him to it.

I would put a sign up but I live on a terraced street house in a non too nice area and one of the main routes home from the local 6th form. A 'Please knock quietly (although moderately would do)" sign would simply encourage people to start kicking my door in, in much the same way the postie does.

If I start ordering more I might have to have a word with PO and see if there is anything they can do, as it the companies I order most from use Hermes and I luffs the Hermes lady. I only get Royal Mail deliveries about once a month, once a month I can cope with being scared half to death. Not sure my dog can cope with it, but he seems to recover after about an hour of frantic pacing the hall eejit dog. He also has an issue with trees and wind <sigh>

Bluebelleswood Thu 17-Jan-13 01:41:09

Our postman beats a tattoo with one hand whilst ringing the door bell with the other. By the time I get to the door, I feel like biting him myself.

Our posties are lovely. The Hermes courier guy however.....walks past our front door, opens both locks on the side gate which bears the sign 'beware of the dog'
To come into where my GSD roams free, just to dump the parcel in the back door which is always open.
I told him not to do that and if he gets bitten its his own fault.

mademred Thu 17-Jan-13 02:11:45

That may be the case from your dh depot but I can assure you that from where my dh worked in the south west it was very much the case.my dh only retired a year ago after serving 20 yrs on the job.and as you well know each office management are a law unto themselves in royal mail.we are so glad he's out of it because they get treated like crap now.

"He said it would be wonderful if someone put up signs such as 'please use doorbell, sleeping children', or 'please use doorbell, hearing issues', but they can't be psychic."

Surely if there is a doorbell then it suggests that the owners would like him to use said doorbell? Would you really need a doorbell and a sign telling you to use the doorbell?

Sirzy Thu 17-Jan-13 08:39:46

Considering how many people have doorbells which don't actually work I wouldn't assume that at all!

honeybee321 Fri 25-Jan-13 19:22:39

The amount of pressure a postal worker is under to deliver their mail is imense, they only have a specific allocation of time... Especially new starters who are most often then not only temps, and walk a very thin line between being in a job and not.

That being said... sometimes they dont see the doorbell, their always in different places. The first thing they do, is knock. And knock loud and clear. Regardless of it offending the occupier of the property, They're cold and want to get home- without facing the wrath of their managers. Not only that but they are walking 8 miles, and dont want to be standing outside a door, tapping, waiting for someone to hear them- when knocking ludly first time will determine whether your in or not.

If they see the door bell they will ring, but after ringing it, they cant hear if its rung...-and there are sooo many broken doorbells? sothey end up knocking anyway... and then after delivering mail to 500 houses- daily- 6 days a week... they get into the habbit of ringing and knocking... just to make sure you get to the door as quickly as possible...

And if you notice, they dont even have time to stand and talk to you anymore, because every last second is allocated... and if you take an extra 5 mins, finding your house key, they're running over... not that they'll say anything... more smile and be patient...

so say what you want about you're postie... but each and everyone of them works hard.

Emilythornesbff Fri 25-Jan-13 19:43:41

Ah poor postmen. There was an angry thread about RM delivery recently in almost the opposite vein. I don't like it when someone hammers on the door but it must be bloody frustrating to try a doorbell, wait, guess whether the bell works......... Knock with increasing volume (probably taking into account resident's hearing abilities and traffic noise) until someone may or may to appear as they may or may not be in to receive their parcel. Maybe we need larger letter boxes smile

Scheherezade Fri 25-Jan-13 19:56:04

My postie just opens the back door and leaves everything in the conservantory. If it needs signing she calls smile

honeybee321 Fri 25-Jan-13 19:56:05

Americans have the right idea... :-)

Scheherezade Fri 25-Jan-13 19:57:14

My postie just opens the back door and leaves everything in the conservantory. If it needs signing she calls smile

floweryblue Fri 25-Jan-13 20:06:20

We usually have the same postman, our dog is always excited to see him because he always gives her a biscuit. The other day I was in when I saw the postman's van arrive, I dashed out to collect the post from the postman to save him the steps into our garden. Even though it was not our usual postman, he still gave a biscuit to the dog.

I find that RM are the best, the most reliable, the most friendly, the most helpful of all the delivery services. But I guess we are lucky to live in a rural area with relatively few different postmen, so they know us and remember what is likely to happen at our address (if they can find us!).

alcibiades Fri 25-Jan-13 20:50:25

I feel sorry for posties and delivery people, they are under such time pressures these days.

We have a mail box (rather than a letter box) which is situated near to the front door. It's not a "standard" mail box - we had it made up by a carpenter when we moved in, some 20+ years ago, and it doesn't have any markings on it, though no-one, including random leafletters, seem to have difficulty figuring it out. That must be good for posties, because there's no bending down to fit things through letter boxes that are at the bottom of the door, nor wondering if their fingers will get trapped by strong springs, nor that a dog (or a cat!) will nip their fingers.

The mail box slot is long enough and wide enough to take a small Amazon package, e.g. 2 or 3 DVDs, but not so big as to permit removal without unlocking the padlock. The window in my den MNing room overlooks the driveway, and sometimes it's quite fascinating to catch a glimpse of our various posties - most don't have to even break their stride, it's like watching precision marching, and the one today just kind of stretched out and "flipped" the post into the mailbox (he's probably a champion darts player).

But, being more serious, I can understand your issue, OP, to a certain extent. It is quite alarming, for both humans as well as dogs, to have an unexpected hammering at the door. But I think you could go half-way to resolving the issue by having a doorbell in a prominent position and which is audible at the front door (and maybe has wireless repeaters elsewhere in the house). I would think that most posties/delivery people would prefer a gentle push on a doorbell rather than bruising their knuckles.

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