AIBU to think that people should only be allowed a 4x4 if they actually need one?

(288 Posts)
boomting Sat 12-Jan-13 21:08:02

They are ridiculously fuel inefficient, and given the finite supplies of oil and the effects on climate change (and no this isn't a climate change thread!), I think that the government should only allow you to own a 4x4 if you have a demonstrable reason for needing one. You would have to submit a form and be issued with a special licence to own one. Reasons could include being a farmer, or having to tow heavy trailers that cannot legally be towed with a smaller vehicle. This isn't an exhaustive list of acceptable reasons, but people who only use them for the school run and going to the supermarket shop should not be allowed to use them.


Proudnscary Sat 12-Jan-13 21:09:02

The government should control what cars we drive?


BlueberryHill Sat 12-Jan-13 21:10:40

Yes you are dear.

Some people think that you should have to pass a test before having children. That would be more useful than what you are proposing but just as unrealistic and controlling.

Have a sit down until you feel better.

OwlCatMouse Sat 12-Jan-13 21:10:56

The government has enough control.

Don't be fucking ridiculous

Greensleeves Sat 12-Jan-13 21:11:19

<wince> at the probably responses of many MNers at the thought of "not being allowed" their Chelsea tractors

OwlCatMouse Sat 12-Jan-13 21:11:46

Maybe there should be a test before you're allowed access to the internet wink

Kormachameleon Sat 12-Jan-13 21:11:50

It is only then a small step to dictating how many children we can have, what food we can eat, what electrically we can use, how we heat our homes

I don't want to live like that

I think everything would be better if drivers knew the size of their vehicles. Most marketed 4x4's are not actual offroaders. There is a huge difference now

bedmonster Sat 12-Jan-13 21:12:52

Yabu. I love mine. So there.
<sticks tongue out>

Booyhoo Sat 12-Jan-13 21:13:37

aibu to think that people should only be allowed cars if tehy actually need one and then only to make essential journeys which they can't possibly make in another way?

aibu to think people should only be allowed to fly if they actually need to?

aibu to think people should have to walk everywhere possible?



OwlCatMouse Sat 12-Jan-13 21:13:45

<waits for the massive 4x4 bunfight to ensue>

AnitaManeater Sat 12-Jan-13 21:14:03

YABU and clearly no understanding of 4x4 cars

Are you getting your MPV's and 4x4's mixed up? Or in your mind is a 4x4 anything with a bit of ground clearance?

HecatePropolos Sat 12-Jan-13 21:14:35

By 4x4 do you mean large car?

Because there are massive cars that are not four wheel drive and there are normal family sized cars that are.

Is it any car that is 4 wheel drive that is ridiculously fuel inefficient?

There's a fiat panda that's a 4 wheel drive.

My mate's massive truck like 7 seater is not.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Sat 12-Jan-13 21:14:49

Probably not very workable, sadly. But it would be good if people who didn't need them, didn't have them.

FiveGoMadInDorset Sat 12-Jan-13 21:15:14

My last 4X4 was more fuel efficient then most cars. and it was smaller than a lot of MPV's

Doshusallie Sat 12-Jan-13 21:15:18

What bedmonster said

MidniteScribbler Sat 12-Jan-13 21:15:31

AIBU to think that people should have to pass a test before they can post stupid things on the internet?

EuroShagmore Sat 12-Jan-13 21:15:39

YABU. Some 4x4s are more fuel efficient than many other cars on the road, particularly older ones.

And you seem to have understood the role of government in a democracy. In a democracy, the people hold all the power over how things are run. They delegate certain bits of it to the government that wouldn't work on an individual basis, e.g. street lighting and policing. The people of this country have not delegated every bit of power over their daily lives for the powers that be to regulate.

AnitaManeater Sat 12-Jan-13 21:16:10

My 4x4 uses no more fuel than a 2wd car of the same engine size. Why should I not be allowed one?

JuliaSqueezer Sat 12-Jan-13 21:16:21

Not all four wheel drive vehicles are huge things, are the smaller ones okay or do you literally mean all cars need to be two wheel drive unless you can prove you need one?

Mintyy Sat 12-Jan-13 21:16:36

I happen to think yanbu, however this is a dull old topic that has been discussed 10,000 times before on Mumsnet ... and here, as in real life, the vast majority of people think that if you can afford a 4x4 then that's fine go ahead and have one.

My real issues (as a Londoner) re. 4 x 4s is the amount of space they take up, the extra danger they pose to pedestrians and cyclists, and the sneaking suspicion that 99% of them near me have never gone off road in their lives. Would probably feel differently if I lived in the country.

3monkeys3 Sat 12-Jan-13 21:17:40

It's subjective though. I need a 4x4 sometimes - we live at the top of a hill and we can't get up it if it snows, except in a 4x4, I sometimes drive down crap, holey tracks to visit friends. I don't need one every day. How would that be judged? As it happens I don't have a 4x4 at the moment. My dh gets no choice as he works for the company that imports subarus and they are all 4x4s.

Greensleeves Sat 12-Jan-13 21:17:51

I think OP means fuck-off great big shiny mumtrucks that make the school run a misery for everybody

Is that right OP?

discorabbit Sat 12-Jan-13 21:18:27

i used to think like you op, but with winter approaching and the amount of floods we seem to be getting - am thinking 4x4s are probably worth getting!

BarredfromhavingStella Sat 12-Jan-13 21:18:53

Oh dear, this will not end well.......

Freedom of choice & non of your fucking business to be frank.

No I don't own one & please note that there are lots of gas guzzling cars that are not 4x4's (though from your post I think you mistakenly think that only jeep type cars are 4x4's which is of course incorrect).

KoalaTale Sat 12-Jan-13 21:22:56 about I'd like to have a 4wd to use in the snow and frost?

Let's remember this in a few days time when it's snowing and hospitals are begging 4x4 drivers to help bring their staff into work or councils are asking if us inconsiderate evil 4x4 drivers can do a bit of shopping for old people. Now off you fuck with your smug desire to control everyone else's choices.

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme Sat 12-Jan-13 21:26:19

Ooh ooh another big car hater. I love these threads!

<gibber, gibber, dribble>

VBisme Sat 12-Jan-13 21:26:29

I think you've misunderstood what a 4x4 actually is........

IThinkOfHappyWhenIThinkOfYou Sat 12-Jan-13 21:26:37

YABU. What about old bangers and 'executive' cars that use loads of fuel. The government can't ban random things due to snobbery. Besides which, practically anyone who lives on a slight hill could claim a need.

SpecialAgentKat Sat 12-Jan-13 21:27:38

Only read OP.

I'd rather a different driving test to pass if you want a 4X4. They don't bother me too much except when people don't have the strength to fucking drive em!

But it would be good if people who didn't need them, didn't have them.

Not for a lot of young males in Liverpool, who are relying on the Jaguar Plant in Halewood for a job, in a region where employment and a decent wage is scarce.

But don't let unemployment, or poverty, worry you.

discorabbit Sat 12-Jan-13 21:28:32

i have to say people are really quite nasty on aibu aren't they, i know it's always been so, but not quite so arsey

cricketballs Sat 12-Jan-13 21:29:09

in the back of beyond that I live I wish I could afford a 4x4 just to get to civilisation when snow arrives!

I own one, I'm not getting rid.

IThinkOfHappyWhenIThinkOfYou Sat 12-Jan-13 21:29:34

Strength? You know what you have to be strong to drive? A 1960s mini. I had awesome biceps when I had that car.

I don't give a toss what people drive .I know my Nissan takes £35 of petrol a fortnight to get me around and the amount I pay for insurance, servicing, tyres etc are probably a tiny % of a jeep/Landrover/Range Rover/ insert name of choice.

One thing I have noticed though- some drivers don't bother to parrallel park. They bump up onto the kerb and down onto the road.
Fine with the huge tyres, but hardly safe for pedestrians (Yes school run mums I am looking at you )

OscarPistoriusBitontheside Sat 12-Jan-13 21:30:12

YABU and quite frankly a bit dim.

My MPV is fucking HUGE and actually bigger than my 4x4. I had lots of comments about my 4x4 being bad for the environment, blah, blah, etc. Everyone who see's my MPV compliments me and really likes it. They are about the same for fuel economy, people have been brainwashed to believe 4x4 = bad. It's just nu labour snobbery.

BigShinyBaubles Sat 12-Jan-13 21:31:40

I need a huge stonking 4x4...but I can't afford one. Would the government buy me one?
I don't like them..purely because I'm jealous I'm not driving one. oh how I wish I had a big pimped out white Range Rover

I actually agree OP, having been brought up in the deep, deep countryside where the only 4x4 accessory going was a sheep (dead or alive) in the back and half a tonne of cow shit spread all over.
They are extremely useful vehicles in that and similar situations, generally rural, and totally ridiculous when driven elsewhere.

However, this sort of thread descends quickly into a bunfight along the lines of the NRA 'it's my right to do X' and doesn't get any better....
<lobs in inflammatory comment on a Saturday night and buggers off>

morethanpotatoprints Sat 12-Jan-13 21:32:20

YABU, because those who don't need them give us all such good comic value.

mrsjay Sat 12-Jan-13 21:33:46

once the government give up their big cars and probably 4X4s their huge houses stop flying here there and everywhere and dont give me they offset their carbon footprint , then they can say what cars people drive jeezus read it all now

boomting Sat 12-Jan-13 21:33:56

By a 4x4, I am referring to cars that receive engine power to all four wheels simultaneously. They invariably look a lot like this (note the lack of mud).
I see MPVs differently as they are normally bought by people with more than 5 people in the household, who actually need the extra space.

I'm quite aware of how a democracy works - I did spend four years studying it.

The government already regulates many things, for the good of the individual or the common good. Examples include having to pass a driving test before you can drive, not being allowed to buy cigarettes until you are 18, and not being allowed to possess a gun without having a good reason for it.

Why should a 4x4 be any different?

I would like a 4x4 so I could get it of the house when the hill freezes. Or one of these: who needs a 4x4 when you have one of these fuel guzzling beasties!

ShellyBoobs Sat 12-Jan-13 21:34:37

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Sat 12-Jan-13 21:36:55

I used to get crosser about this, and I still do a rolly eye when I see some stupid 4x4 taking up two parking spaces, or driving really inconsiderately, and I'd still lose respect for anyone who drove one for no real reason.

However, now I'm more pessimistic, and think we're all fucked anyway, and if I really felt anything could help, I wouldn't fly or drive my own car. I mean, I try: we choose cars based on what seems most economical and everything, but I don't suppose I have a leg to stand on given that I drive most days and sometimes fly.

I know I wouldn't have much time for anyone who just chose one of those cars because they thought it was cool or something. I wish people didn't drive them. But still.

VBisme Sat 12-Jan-13 21:37:07

Sorry is that not just a 4wd?

In that case I have one, its a 10 year old x type Jag, (all x types are 4 wd), amazing in the snow, but I'd love to be able to afford to get rid of it and buy a new car. (Maybe the government could fund that?)

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme Sat 12-Jan-13 21:38:56

I wish the government would give me a brand new environmentally friendly cheap to run car to replace the gas guzzling exhaust chugging old car that I currently drive and can't afford to replace.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Sat 12-Jan-13 21:39:05

That said, OP, the rudeness which is being directed at you by some people does probably say a lot. You are basically right, IMO, I just lack the courage of my convictions, sadly. The nastiness you're coming in for however is unpleasant and smacks a little of protesting too much and too spitefully

That's one well loved but well battered Jeep there.

FiveGoMadInDorset Sat 12-Jan-13 21:39:56

so you would like to ban cars like this but these are OK?

littlewhitebag Sat 12-Jan-13 21:41:16

I luffs my 4x4. That it is an ancient Volvo used for hauling my stinky Lab around the country roads of rural Scotland has nothing to do with it! It is like driving a big old sofa. I don't care about anything else. It is the car i choose to drive and it is no business of anyone else- certainly not the government.

Plomino Sat 12-Jan-13 21:41:19

Personally I think if we're talking about fuel efficiency , then maybe only cars that do at least 35 mpg should be allowed . Should get rid of all the fancy schmancy ostentatious sports cars driven by wankers but not my Discovery . I can justify having one perfectly well for all the right reasons , but you know what ? I'm not going to .

All kinds of cars are driven by wankers . Big ones , 4 x4s , little ones , Eco friendly ones . They're driven by smug wankers .

mrsjay Sat 12-Jan-13 21:41:50

butfive these are an essential for scooting about town or going to ones lunch <rolls eyes> t

discorabbit Sat 12-Jan-13 21:41:59

people are being vile on this thread

FiveGoMadInDorset Sat 12-Jan-13 21:42:26

A 4x4 is just a vehicle that has power directed to all wheels. Size doesn't matter a jot. my first 4x4 was a Subaru Justy which was 1.1 and smaller than most small cars now. Do a bit of research before you make a statement like that.

FiveGoMadInDorset Sat 12-Jan-13 21:43:04

Of course they are mrsjay couldn't possibly ban them.


I would be livid if the government started dictating which car I should be driving. You have chosen 4x4s for this thread but you could say the same about anybody driving a car that has more seats than their family needs.

What about couples who have a car each? What about families who need a different number of seats at different times through the year for example access visits, etc?

If I want a 4x4 I will drive a 4x4 and no government should be allowed to tell me otherwise. (I don't have a 4x4 by the way.)

crashdoll Sat 12-Jan-13 21:44:53

I don't really mind 4x4 but overall, I find the women who own them in my area do not know how to park them and yes, it's always women!

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme Sat 12-Jan-13 21:45:49

And it's an estate car and a big one at that. Easily as big as your average 4x4, unless you count those daft little Suzuki jeeps or little SUV things which it's about twice as long as.

And I can park it in one space perfectly fine, thank you.

In fact the 4wd car I'd love to replace it with is only about 2" longer and wider. It just comes with two extra seats inside.

LiveItUp Sat 12-Jan-13 21:46:23

YABU. I have one, and I also have my central heating set for only 16 degrees in the house. Oh, and I haven't been in a plane for over 10 years.

The nice thing about a democracy is that we have choices. Mine, not yours.

BarredfromhavingStella Sat 12-Jan-13 21:48:19

So like I said you don't actually mean understand 4x4's, DH has a 4x4-it's an estate (but it is a gas guzzler as it's a performance car grin )

HecatePropolos Sat 12-Jan-13 21:48:36

Actually, they don't invariably look like that.
There are many 4 wheel drive cars that are the same sive as 2 wheel drive cars. A new 4wheel drive is better for the environment than a two wheel drive old banger, etc etc.
Yeah, I admit it. I've got a 4 wheel drive. Its a hyundai santa fe. grin
And it's about the same length as my neighbours old green volvo estate!
And a lot less damaging to the environment AND uses less fuel than their old girl!

chocoluvva Sat 12-Jan-13 21:49:35

I curse for them taking up too much space in car parks.
They're not USUALLY justifiable IMO, but I suppose you could say the same about all sorts of things.

However, when I'm in charge I'm going to ban people from owning more than one car if it won't fit onto their own property.

Narrows eyes at neighbours who make getting out of my drive awkward.

Stinkyminkymoo Sat 12-Jan-13 21:49:58

Ha ha ha ha!! OP, you are hilarious! Seriously, in the whole wide world that's the most important thing to you?!

I would be exempt as have horses and pull them in a trailer so ya boo sucks to you anyway!

littlewhitebag Sat 12-Jan-13 21:51:42

For god sakes - the government should only give you - say - a gun -if you really, really need one. But a car - it's a car. Who gives shit.

LiveItUp Sat 12-Jan-13 21:52:13

Oh, and I also have an aga. You'd probably like a law against them too. But it came with the house. We don't have mains gas, so I burn even more oil keeping the aga on. Not much choice out here in the sticks.

But it is my choice to live out here in the sticks, and I wouldn't change it for the world.

FiveGoMadInDorset Sat 12-Jan-13 21:52:15

Come back OP

OwlCatMouse Sat 12-Jan-13 21:52:23

If your argument is that they are inefficient, what about all the V6 engines out there that aren't inside a 4x4? Ban all powerful cars?

PatriciaHolm Sat 12-Jan-13 21:52:42

My 4x4 looks like

Is that OK, OP?

Maybe you should rethink and rephrase?

cinnamonnut Sat 12-Jan-13 21:52:46

I think people who have them are causing damage but at the same time it would be extremely damaging to limit freedom for that much

FiveGoMadInDorset Sat 12-Jan-13 21:53:18

Oh and the lack of mud means it has been washed, believe it or not we wash our Disco when it is covered in shite.

BlueberryHill Sat 12-Jan-13 21:53:43

Some 4X4s put most, 90% - 95% to the front wheels until it feels that they are spinning and then it puts more power to the back wheels and operates as a 4X4? Where would that fit in your form?

chocoluvva Sat 12-Jan-13 21:53:50

How about a ban on drivers under the age of 21(ish)!

Unless the young person had a special reason - work, disability. That would save lives and money.

When I'm in charge....

FiveGoMadInDorset Sat 12-Jan-13 21:53:52

How are they causing damage?

Fiat panda,4x4, 2005, 54.3 mpg
Hyundai ix35, 4x4, 49.6mpg
Nissan quasqau,4x4, 47.1mpg
Volkswagen tiguan 4x4, 44.8mpg
BMW X3, 4x4, 50.mpg

Not bad for gas guzzlers, IMO comparable with 2 wheel drive for eg seat Ibiza 52.3 mpg

OwlCatMouse Sat 12-Jan-13 21:56:23

Lets ban impatient, arrogant dickheads from owning a car at all. Anybody that smokes with children in the car - instant ban. Bad parking - huge fine.

Blah blah blah.

Hasn't it been found that all those driving the electric cars like the Pious are causing more harm to the environment than a normal car? They're fucking silent too, bastards.

yummumto3girls Sat 12-Jan-13 21:59:49

I have Discovery, I live in rural Devon. I love that I have 3 children but can still take their friends, I love that I feel very safe on the road, I love that that I can choose to have one. I'm a women, yes I can drive it well and park it in smaller spaces than most. What I hate is that people judge me on the car I drive, it does not reflect me as a person, it's my choice and no one else's.

RozziRaspberry Sat 12-Jan-13 22:00:40

My 4x4 has come in handy tonight as I had to pick up my daughter from a friends in the snow, I can see where you might be coming from if you live in a area that is rarely affected by bad weather.

Before we got our 4x4 I was stuck in the house for nearly a week with 3 young dchildren due to bad weather whilst dh was working away now I know I won't be stuck again for so long thanks to my 4x4.

Midlifecrisisarefun Sat 12-Jan-13 22:04:41

My large 4X4 has the same mpg as my Sil mini. She uses that to commute every day, my car is used to transport disabled DH and tow our caravan. On longer trips it is surprisingly efficient.
If you want to ban car usage why not extend it to under 19s now that the school leaving age is going up there is no need for teenagers to have cars and over 70s...reactions slower....parents with children... they can't concentrate with children fighting/crying/playing/ chatting etc etc
OR you could accept freedom to choose...


*"They are ridiculously fuel inefficient..." Based on what evidence exactly? Because I know from experience that in the case of our very old Landy versus our very new Mazda that is totally untrue.

My DH has been using my 2 litre one year old Mazda non 4x4 to get to work for the past couple of weeks.

In doing so he has used FAR more fuel than he normally does in his 17 year old 2.5 litre Landrover Discovery.

Not only is his car SIGNIFICANTLY more fuel efficient than mine, but it has and will last a LOT longer - so it's more eco friendly in that sense too.

Added to that it is diesel - which actually takes a lot less processing from oil than petrol does, with less wastage... So better there too.

So it uses LESS fuel, which in itself is LESS processed, and LASTS longer, therefore producing LESS waste.

Yup, as I said, YABU and ill informed.

hermioneweasley Sat 12-Jan-13 22:09:01

I hope the OP doesn't have more rooms in her house than she strictly needs. Or ever fly anywhere.

gordyslovesheep Sat 12-Jan-13 22:11:54

oh I love a --lazy lets try and start a fight--good 4X4 rant - always always based on fact and never on envy or supposed 'greeness'

I would love one grin ( a 4X4 not an argument)

gordyslovesheep Sat 12-Jan-13 22:12:31

oh epic -- crossout failure -- there (head/desk)

They need to sort the pious out with some engine noise, they are lethal to anyone relying on sound to avoid being knocked over.

Forgot to mention.... Our Disco has seven seats.

My Mazda is a Mazda 5 - so it too has seven seats.

We have one child and one dog and a great big caravan. We need the Landy to pull the van, and my DH just happens to be a Landy specialist so it makes sense to drive something he can fix/service himself.

My Mazda - no I didn't need seven seats, in fact the rear two are hardly ever up. I just love the fact I can get SHITLOADS of shopping in alongside a buggy and a dog. Hurrah!

TWO cars, one a 4x4, both with spare seating?! Oh the anarchy!!

There is a moped or motorbike that whizzes past my bedroom window every weekday morning and all I hear is a very quiet whizz as it goes by, every time I try and see it its already gone!

One day...that blooming quiet bike disturbing me..

Coola Mazda 5s are awesome! I want one of the newer ones, they have a picnic table in! <kicks stupid estate car with no picnic table>

LiveItUp Sat 12-Jan-13 22:20:53

OP has started a bun fight and ... disappeared.

Coola, I think you'd better stop now, you'll overload the OP and their head will explode grin

UniS Sat 12-Jan-13 22:26:11

Now I DON'T own a 4x4 but I do drive one ( a work owned one, yes we tow large trailers, we also work on farm land) and I sometimes drop DS off for school using it, or pick him up from childminder, or do teh shop on my way home from work... where would OP like me to sit on this argument? licenced or not, or should I own another car as well, and make two journeys out of one ?
Does it make a difference that I live in a rural small village in a hilly part of the country and about 30% of families in the parish own a 4x4 , none of the village is on a priority 1 OR 2 gritting route.

I think the price of fuel is becoming effective in putting people off using them.. know several few families who own a 4x4( for work/ play) and a small cheap to run car( for practical run about stuff.

UniS Sat 12-Jan-13 22:28:44

Not very scientific, but I do the same route regulary with car, car with roof bars and bike or land rover disco 3 ( not towing).

MPG - car 41/42
MPG car with roof load ( 39/40)
MPG Landy - 30 ( and boss says I'm doing well to get that)

You'd hate my neighbour, OP. He has 2 4x4s! Crivens - the horror!

To be fair to the bloke though, they're used in his business, and if and when it snows they're used to help neighbours and the elderly. Oh and the diesel consumption is a lot less than our bog standard Toyota.

How about doing a little research before coming up with a ridiculous idea like that??

Startail Sat 12-Jan-13 22:36:52


DH picked up a new one today, we live at the top of a huge hill which is treacherous in the snow and it may mean if it snows on Monday I get to work, in my low paid job working for the NHS. Would I qualify.

What would people have to do to qualify? Live in the country? Own a farm? Promise to pick up all the kids en route to school so as to save others petrol? Promise to do the shopping for all of the old people in a hamlet or half a village?

How are you going to administrate this and police it? If no snow for a couple of years do boundaries change and quotas go down? Will you compensate all the people who make the cars and will lose their jobs and the other industries involved?

Your argument gets stupider as you go on. Do you not realise many 4x4s are for more fuel efficient and in a lower tax band due to the fact that the new ones don't pump out such shitty amounts of harmful emissions

OldLadyKnowsNothing Sat 12-Jan-13 22:49:37

<wonders if Coola's dh might be a little heavier of foot in the Mazda> grin

SantasENormaSnob Sat 12-Jan-13 22:52:36


And wrong in most of your assumptions.

Viviennemary Sat 12-Jan-13 23:06:29

Why do people drive 4 x 4's. So they can say ya boo sucks to everyone. And I've got more money than you so hard cheese. grin

hmc Sat 12-Jan-13 23:15:37

4x4 is completely arbitrary - my dh's 4 litre car would not attract your ire but is almost certainly less fuel efficient than many 4x4s

canutesauntie Sat 12-Jan-13 23:44:09

Yawn, 4x4 on school run, the horror.
You sound like you have a very urban perspective tbh.

I have an AWD estate car, (not selectable 4WD) and its the best thing Ive ever driven on our twisty rural roads that turn into streams at the drop of a hat. Its a very safe car.

I personally think a 4x4 with a cream interior is daft but I'm not going to demand licences.


chris481 Sun 13-Jan-13 00:21:32

YABU. With regard to conserving fuel and the environment, it's irrelevant how many wheels are driven. It's not very relevant how fuel efficient a car is, because a 4x4 that's drive 1000 miles a year is less of a problem than a Prius that's driven 12,000. All that matters is how much fuel is used, and there is already a mechanism for regulating that, the tax on fuel.

Reaa Sun 13-Jan-13 00:33:03

I loved my 4x4 for the school run and shopping, will be getting another one soon as it fits my requirements for myself and my family.

Loveweekends10 Sun 13-Jan-13 05:54:31

I don't like them because they are high off the ground and when they hit people they have more chance of killing them.
They tend to be driven by wankers. For example one mother I know whose house looks onto the side of the primary school. Gets in her 4x4 drives around to the front gate throws her kids out at the gate and drives back home. All of 200 yards!
I dislike them more for those reasons than fuel economy. But we can't start imposing rules like that or it would never end.

theodorakisses Sun 13-Jan-13 07:19:51

Finally I have learned to say fuck off and get a life and now I will hide this thread rather than get upset and feel a need to defend normal people and nice cars. (and will now go for a drive in my 7 liter Escalade which does about 9mpg). Byeeeeeeeeee dearie poos.

Kahlua4me Sun 13-Jan-13 07:41:23

We have 2 4x4 cars!

Dh has a proper one, defender, that he uses for work, mainly in farms etc. so it is certainly necessary to do his work. No complaints from anyone when he helps them winch their cars out of snow drifts during last few winters.

I use mine mainly for social life and weekly shopping. But I do less than 4000 miles per year, always walk to school, into town and to supermarket for top up shopping. How is that worse than having a normal car and driving everywhere? I love my car, it's easy to park, lovely to drive, and cheap to run.

No intentions of selling it just because some people think It may be bad for the environment. Surely, it all has to be weighed up together with heating, electricity usage, plane travel etc. not simply, "them 4x4s are bad news, let's get rid if them!"

AndABigBirdInaPearTree Sun 13-Jan-13 07:47:33

I also have an AWD that comes on when it needs it but you can select it for lower speeds. It is a compact SUV not a full-size. So would I need to take this test or not? I will be in quite a reasonable amount of snow at least four or five times this winter. Would I be allowed it in your test? What about years I only drive in snow once? Would I have to hand my car in?

Oh and some 4wd are high off the ground and some aren't at all and are built on a car chassis so that isn't a fair point either.

FiveGoMadInDorset Sun 13-Jan-13 07:48:21

Loveweekends a lot of 4x4's aren't though, don't tar them all with the same brush.

Glittertwins Sun 13-Jan-13 07:48:36

So, by your definition, I should not have an MPV as we only have 2 children and its smaller than a Ford Mondeo estate? The next car we get will be 4wd or AWD so we don't get snow bound even though we live in a town centre otherwise the DCs won't be getting to school.
I think you are not only highly unreasonable, your knowledge of cars is breathtakingly appalling.

AndABigBirdInaPearTree Sun 13-Jan-13 07:49:06

Kahlua, we did over 3000 miles in one week over Christmas!

mrsjay Sun 13-Jan-13 09:41:10

our 4 x 4 tows our caravan I wonder if that would be on the OP approved list I hate filling out forms grin

BeanieStats Sun 13-Jan-13 09:44:20

If you 'need' a 4x4 or other large SUV style vehicle to drive in the snow then you don't know how to drive.

If I ruled the world, I wouldn't ban anything but I'd make sure that anything over a certain kerb weight and size was taxed to the hilt.

Amerryscot Sun 13-Jan-13 09:49:52

YABU, OP, and your opinion is actually quite scary.

If the government wants us to use more efficient cars, they should encourage this behaviour via the taxation system.

As they do - tax of more economical cars is much lower than gas guzzlers.

ShellyBoobs Sun 13-Jan-13 09:52:57

OP, I hope your heating is set to not even 1C higher than it absolutely needs to be.

Reducing heating temperature by 1.5C saves on average 450kg of CO2 per year.

That's the same as driving 1,500 miles in some big 4x4s (based on 190g/km).

Have you made sure your own green credentials are in order, before starting this bollocks thread?

Mosman Sun 13-Jan-13 09:56:07

We don't need one but it was the cheapest 7 seater so we bought it.
The government controls the price of road tax and petrol so they already have enough say in what I can and cannot do IMO

ShellyBoobs Sun 13-Jan-13 09:57:55

If you 'need' a 4x4 or other large SUV style vehicle to drive in the snow then you don't know how to drive.

Try it where we live, without a proper 4x4.

It's not just the traction that's an issue, you know; winter tyres will fix that bit quite often (I have winter tyres on my car every winter) but when there's over a foot of snow on the road you aren't going anywhere without good ground clearance.

crashdoll Sun 13-Jan-13 09:58:14

Loving all the hysterical "why does it bother you?" and ^"is this all you have to worry about?" posts. grin You could say that about most of the AIBU threads!

OnwardBound Sun 13-Jan-13 10:01:42

I live in a London Victorian era house which has been converted into flats.

We have a communal car park out the front.

It is normally perfectly adequate for the 4 or so cars which need to be parked there.

However two girls have moved in downstairs who both drive massive monster trucks four wheel drives...

Then their boyfriends stay the night and park out front and they also drive massive four wheel drives.

It is a bloody nightmare and there is sometimes no space for us to park our own 7 seater MPV [we have two small children].

Our family car is smaller than these four wheel drives which only transport one person hmm

They are bloody ridiculous imo and often just a status symbol in London. No need for them at all.

PessaryPam Sun 13-Jan-13 10:02:47

Oh look, another control,freak on MumsNet. Who would have imagined such a thing?

ShellyBoobs Sun 13-Jan-13 10:12:49

It is a bloody nightmare and there is sometimes no space for us to park our own 7 seater MPV [we have two small children].

The hypocrisy is staggering!

Other people shouldn't have a 4x4 but you need a 7-seater because you have two small children?


wendycraigsmini Sun 13-Jan-13 10:20:35

What gets my goat is the number of front gardens dug up and concreted over to make space for more and more cars. I accept most households need more than one car these days but it is not necessary to completely cover your frontage in concrete etc. especially that disgustingly naff, entirely un-eco imprinted stuff that looks like rubber. Can't they at least leave a corner of greenery intact? Nobs.

theodorakisses Sun 13-Jan-13 10:43:32

I especially hate it when they park in disabled parking spaces and poo in my garden. I think that rounds up the predictable troublemaking threads for the week.

TiggyD Sun 13-Jan-13 10:45:03

I don't think the 4X4 bit is the problem. Maybe the OP could change it to:

"Nobody should have a car with more than a 4 litre engine, or one that does less than 15 MPG unless they can prove they need it."

Viviennemary Sun 13-Jan-13 11:12:09

They should be banned. As they are a menace.

thebody Sun 13-Jan-13 11:16:43

Theodorakisses, very funny.

I love my 4x4. Fuck off and mind business .

OnwardBound Sun 13-Jan-13 12:01:50

As I said Shelly our 7 seater is SMALLER than the 4 wheel drives parked out the front.

I only mentioned it was a 7 seater to let people know we don't have a small family car.

But it is SMALLER than these massive trucks parked out the front that only transport ONE person.

Do you get my point now?

chocoluvva Sun 13-Jan-13 12:10:42

Fuel tax costs all petrol/diesel powered vehicle owners.

The cost of road tax is pretty insignificant if you can afford an expensive vehicle I'd think - the difference between tax for smaller/more fuel-efficient cars and cars with bigger engines doesn't compare with the difference in price of vehicles.

FeistyLass Sun 13-Jan-13 12:21:17

I read last week that a vegetarian who drives a 4x4 is better for the environment than a meat eater on a bicycle . . . grin

I love my 4x4 and yes, we do need it, because we drive on and off sites, off-road, etc, but I also drive it on the school run and can just imagine people like the OP making snap judgements about my need for one.

(celebrates first and probably last contribution to a 4x4 thread wine )

simplesusan Sun 13-Jan-13 12:25:01

urkedtoolong Sat 12-Jan-13 21:24:37
Let's remember this in a few days time when it's snowing and hospitals are begging 4x4 drivers to help bring their staff into work or councils are asking if us inconsiderate evil 4x4 drivers can do a bit of shopping for old people. Now off you fuck with your smug desire to control everyone else's choices

Please, please, allow me to borrow your 4 wheel drive if /when it snows and I am one of those people trapped within their own home due to living on a very, steep hill within an estate. Untouched by road ploughs and gritters. Oh and fwiw no decent public transport to help us out. Only a couple of food shops within a 3/4 mile radius (if you can call a country post office a shop. )

simplesusan Sun 13-Jan-13 12:26:58

I really wish townies with their abundance of decent public transport and amenities would sod off.

TameGaloot Sun 13-Jan-13 13:38:40

Our old landrover was about as fuel efficient and about the same size as our current car. Both seven seaters (4 children)
The landrover was more useful though as we lived in a rural area and for a while lived on a farm in the arse end of nowhere. We moved into a small town with it but dh still took it out off road for some of his hobbies
Also useful for towing people who got
Stuck in the snow and blocking the road
Yet according to the op the landrover wouldn't be allowed but the Chrysler would.
Where's the logic in that?

mademred Sun 13-Jan-13 14:09:40

We own a Mitsubishi delicia, and we would not part with it for the following reasons, we live in the country and with the recent floods we were the ones able to drive thru the flood water where cars could not, we have 5 children so plenty of space , we like camping and ideal to either sleep in (seats turn into beds) and take our camping gear, and I crashed one doing 60 when sum idiot pulled out on me and me and my kids lived to tell the tale, whereas , if I had of been in the zafira I had previously then I no doubt would have rolled it and been seriously injured if not killed.we are also the only ones in the street that can get out if it snows.yes they are costly to run but the government make the money out of the fuel so they would never limit who can drive 4x4s.

theodorakisses Sun 13-Jan-13 14:22:54

Trying to remember the term for people who post deliberately inflammatory and controversial subjects on fora. I think there are two names for it and the least likely one is totally naive newcomer. Threads like this should be deleted.

freddiefrog Sun 13-Jan-13 14:27:15

Let's remember this in a few days time when it's snowing and hospitals are begging 4x4 drivers to help bring their staff into work or councils are asking if us inconsiderate evil 4x4 drivers can do a bit of shopping for old people. Now off you fuck with your smug desire to control everyone else's choices

Yes!!! Totally agree

I live at the end of a mile long and hilly unmade track. The first sniff of rain and it turns the road into a mud bath. I laugh my socks off every time my very vocally disapproving of 4x4s neighbour knocks on my door to ask me to tow his Smart car out of the mud (again) or a lift to the doctors because he can't get his car down the lane (again)

We tow a lot of stuff, DH is a warden for our local Scout campsite so drives off road a lot, we live rurally at the end of a muddy lane in a faily isolated area.

I don't need the 4x4 aspect of it every day, occasionally I do the school run/super market shop in it or am I supposed to own 2 cars so I only drive the 4x4 days on days my need is considered acceptable

theodorakisses Sun 13-Jan-13 14:28:37

Don't tow a smart car, just drive over it.

freddiefrog Sun 13-Jan-13 14:30:37

Tempting even more so if he was sitting in it grin

Glittertwins Sun 13-Jan-13 14:30:48

I'd be tempted to tell you neighbour where to put his Smart, Freddie!

AndABigBirdInaPearTree Sun 13-Jan-13 16:48:15

If you 'need' a 4x4 or other large SUV style vehicle to drive in the snow then you don't know how to drive.

Yeah, try doing it at 7000ft in a blizzard when 4ft falls in one weekend and it is coming down faster than the snowplow plows and you need to climb another 200 ft up an unplowed steep road. I used to spend up to 8 weeks a year in the snow and DH wanted us to have AWD. I have driven without it many times in rental cars but the AWD is more surefooted, it just is. We don't have winter tires because we live in a warm climate and it would be wasteful to have them.

We used to have an MPV and shock horror also have 2 kids. We also car pooled with two other families to school.

BeanieStats Sun 13-Jan-13 17:50:27

"Yeah, try doing it at 7000ft in a blizzard when 4ft falls in one weekend and it is coming down faster than the snowplow plows and you need to climb another 200 ft up an unplowed steep road. I used to spend up to 8 weeks a year in the snow and DH wanted us to have AWD. I have driven without it many times in rental cars but the AWD is more surefooted, it just is. We don't have winter tires because we live in a warm climate and it would be wasteful to have them.

We used to have an MPV and shock horror also have 2 kids. We also car pooled with two other families to school."

Well I'm a member of the IAM and have a police advanced driving certificate so I know better than most.

I'll stay again, if you "need" a SUV style 4x4 to drive in the snow then you can't drive. The heavier weight and the wide, low profile tyres that seem prolific on the things nowadays just cause most to get bogged down. The higher centre of gravity also makes them a menace in ice and more likely to skid.

Give me a small, front engined hatchback with proper winter tyres any day of the week.

Let's see your 4x4 get up Hardknott pass in the winter.

The average SUV style 4x4 does very little well and an awful lot of things very very badly. Aside from the pollution aspect, they cause huge damage to the road infrastructure, are no where near as safe as most family cars, are a menace to pedestrians, cyclists & horses and are a pain in the arse in cities because most people simply can't park them.

Don't ban them but tax the living shit of them - £10000 pa VED would be a start.

FiveGoMadInDorset Sun 13-Jan-13 19:35:46

Like to see you get the our trailer with pigs in out of our field with a small hatch back.

Just saying.

sockmuppet Sun 13-Jan-13 21:31:37

I regularly have to pull in to spot on the opposite side of the road to let 4x4 drivers pass because they can't seem to manoeuvre their vehicle into the spot on their side of the road.

My children also cannot see around the cars easily to cross the road to get to our normal sized car.

I may be biased because my neighbour has a 4x4 and cannot park it, thus taking up 2 spaces on a limited available space road.

comelywenchlywoo Sun 13-Jan-13 21:59:23

Without 4x4s the horses would have to walk everywhere Beanie ;)

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 13-Jan-13 22:33:32

I carry coffin sprays in mine. I deliver them after I finish the school run.

Would that be on the essential list grin

impty Sun 13-Jan-13 22:38:12

I won't dictate on your choice of vehicle, you can mind your own about mine. angry

LineRunner Sun 13-Jan-13 22:41:55

Hardknott Pass.

Respect, BeanieStats.

Pigsmummy Sun 13-Jan-13 22:50:13

Made me laugh anyhow

teatimesthree Sun 13-Jan-13 22:50:18

Well this thread is really showing 4x4 drivers in the best possible light. wink

OP, I agree with you, but I think a better solution would be a carbon allowance for everybody. Then we could all decide whether to spend it all on a gas guzzler (4x4 or otherwise), heat our houses to 21 degrees, fly on holiday, etc.

AndABigBirdInaPearTree Sun 13-Jan-13 22:50:25

I'm not going to drive up some pass in Cumbria, this year I will do it in Oregon, California, Washington state and in Utah in ski resorts. I obviously don't 'neeeed' an AWD because as I've said I've done it in rental cars before but I do slide less with AWD. My brand new driver is also driving it in snow and ice and he doesn't have a IAM or police driving anything.

My AWD is not huge, it is 4" longer than a ford focus and it was a star in the snow/ice this year. It isn't some mammoth thing.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Sun 13-Jan-13 22:52:42


The problem with freedom of choice is so many people make the wrong choices <sigh>

However this has been done before againandagainandagain and it never ends amicably.

AndABigBirdInaPearTree Sun 13-Jan-13 22:53:17

Teatimes, I agree that a carbon allowance would be fairer. For instance we only heat our house about ten days a year and that heating is a single oil filled radiator.

JollyToddles Sun 13-Jan-13 22:57:23

About every 3rd car is a 4x4 around here.

Most people drive them perfectly competently.

We live in the countryside where we have lots of snow (it lay from Dec 24th - April a couple of years ago) so although they are not 'necessary' they are very useful and a lot of people use them for things other than the school run.

MiniEggsinJanuary Sun 13-Jan-13 22:58:19

Maybe we could have an IQ test before you can have driving lessons too, OP? But then how would you get around and about? Oh yes, you could put some wheels on the massive chip you have sitting on your hemp-covered, organic shoulder.

JollyToddles Sun 13-Jan-13 22:58:39

We would be buggered if a carbon allowance was brought in as we have no gas pipeline and we live 15 miles from the nearest supermarket and a 1hr drive from work.

gimmecakeandcandy Sun 13-Jan-13 23:00:18

You sound like a right smug, pretentious... <I would carry on but I'll get deleted>

P off!

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Sun 13-Jan-13 23:03:22

Oh yes, you could put some wheels on the massive chip you have sitting on your hemp-covered, organic shoulder.

Oh dear sad. Problem with threads like this is that they polarise opinion even more. People are stubborn and defensive, and anyone who expresses concern for the environment is a gullible, Guardian reading, liberal, bunny-hugging, tree-hugging, lentil weaving fool.

We were out for a meal with some friends a few years ago and the special was skate wing. DH said he wouldn't have that as skate were endangered and the bloke we were with said "Oh I'll definitely have one of the those then!" beaming round as though he had said the cleverest, funniest thing ever in the world.

Anyway, rambling now.....

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Sun 13-Jan-13 23:03:42

Oh yes, forgot pretentious.

simplesusan Sun 13-Jan-13 23:03:42

As in actual spray used to polish coffins???????????

If so you can drive what the hell you like as far as I'm concerned.

Then perhaps lend me your 4x4 so that I can get out and about without pooing myself that I will meet someopne coming up the hill whilst I am going down and it won't be good for either of us to try and stop.

Viviennemary Sun 13-Jan-13 23:08:31

4 x 4's don't bother me that much. Till I read these threads. Then I become a hater of them. grin

MiniEggsinJanuary Sun 13-Jan-13 23:11:22

Of course they polarise opinion - they are a symbol of excess to those who can't afford them. Why does it have to be a contentious issue? Who cares what anyone else drives? 4x4 drivers and drivers of high-powered sports cars don't start threads saying AIBU to think that people who drive old gas-guzzling inefficient cars should get a permit to drive them? I don't give a shit if they can't afford a newer car. Oh no, they don't because we are not as petty minded and have our lives in perspective. We can do as we please as we live in a free country. You get on with your car and I'll get on with mine.

LineRunner Sun 13-Jan-13 23:45:55

I might have a hypocaust fitted under my shack when market forces permit.

Bogeyface Sun 13-Jan-13 23:56:31

YANBU, but.....

How do you decide which village is so cut off in snow that its residents can have a 4X4 and which isnt? It can change year to year, so one year a person can qualify and the next they may not.

Whilst I totally agree with the principle, I think that it wouldnt be workable.

I drive an MPV btw, because I have 6 children so not against big gas guzzlers when they are needed!

Bogeyface Mon 14-Jan-13 00:01:42

H just reminded me. Saw an old friend, that is a friend from school so more of a "chat when we meet" friend now, and she was getting her 2 DDs into her husbands Porsche Cayenne 4X4. I said something (nice!) about the car and she said "He wont drive anything that isnt a Porsche or better and this was the only one that we can get the car seats into"

He should definitely be made to drive a Fiesta imo!

TameGaloot Mon 14-Jan-13 00:04:15

This assumption that people with 4x4s have loads of money. A fair amount of the ones round here are old. And often look older what with all the slurry up the sides with straw and hay sticking out all over. Of course there are new ones too but there are a lot of 4x4s full stop what with it being a rural county

freddiefrog Mon 14-Jan-13 00:15:14

I think it depends where you live whether people assume its a status thing.

I live rurally, lots of farms, people towing horse boxes, sailing is also a big thing here so people tow boats on and off slip ways, etc.

No one ever assumes you have a 4x4 because you can afford to but an expensive car, but rather because you do actually need one

The vast majority of people here drive one for one reason or another. There's a bloke down the road who does them up and sells them for £1500 a pop, who most people have bought one from at some point, so hardly a symbol of wealth

thebitchbrigade Mon 14-Jan-13 00:20:10


this is ill thought through I am embarrassed for you

foolserrand Mon 14-Jan-13 00:29:00

I'm not sure where I stand here, OP. I drive an mpv with optional 4x4 capabilities. I just have to flick a switch. FYI, I have better fuel economy than many, if not most, estate cars. Am I allowed it in your idealistic eutopia?

BunFagFreddie Mon 14-Jan-13 00:32:53

If OP means gas guzzlers, it would be great if everyone took steps to reduce their carbon footprint and thought about their car usage. However, if our government started imposing rules on what type of cars people drive that would be grim indeed. It's a case of be careful what you wish for!

Whiteworm Mon 14-Jan-13 00:37:02

LOL at this thread. I would have one if I could afford one. Until then I hate 'em. I live in Sevenoaks too dahhhhling and the carparks mother & child spaces are full of 'em! smile

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Mon 14-Jan-13 08:55:26

Of course they polarise opinion - they are a symbol of excess to those who can't afford them.

Not true - there are plenty of people who can afford them but who may choose a smaller, more economical thread instead - which could well be more expensive. I think this thread is divided between city and more rural people actually. Having a muck spattered, leaky old land rover with bits of hay stuck to it, or one bought for the express purpose of being able to tow a little fishing boat is a very different thing to someone driving an enormous, gleaming Jeep round Hale or Altrincham (I pick on those two places because I have been up there recently).

But again, those who fall into the latter category would always insist it's envy, and those who think they are wrong will always insist they are typical me-me-me Tories grin

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Mon 14-Jan-13 08:56:02

smaller, more economical thread

Car. Duh.

theodorakisses Mon 14-Jan-13 09:28:03

Nobody has to justify their choice of vehicle. I hate shitty little Micras stuffed with kids that look as if they are about to fall apart with the rear window obscured by born at home stickers but I don't think they should be forced to buy a car I approve of. My main reason for my choice is because it is NICE! I do use it off road a lot and live outside the UK but when I do visit I hire a 4x4 because I want to. So bloody what?

jellybeans Mon 14-Jan-13 10:23:40

YANBU. They are horrible if they hit a pedestrian. I have read threads where people say 'yes but at least my kids are safer'. Why not us all be safer?

What a week on MN! Rip snorting FF v BF shit fight, now a 4x4 thread! All we need is a P&C parking riot, a bit of CC mudslinging and someone to call piercing babies' ears child abuse!

<relaxes back with popcorn and a coke float>

theodorakisses Mon 14-Jan-13 13:28:39

People start inflammatory trouble making threads for a reason, this is clearly it. Not nice but people do have a right to reply. I think the OP is either extremely naive, doesn't know how to search for old (a few weeks since the last tedium) threads to bump up or they are just looking for a laugh.

Delalakis Mon 14-Jan-13 13:42:23

Judging by some of the responses on here, OP is perfectly correct - on the ground that owning/driving a Chelsea tractor seems to bring out some extremely rude and unpleasant streaks in people.

My main whinge with them is that people who drive them seem to be totally unable to park them sensibly - they either take up two spaces, or they take hours jiggling back and forth whilst massive queues build up as people wait to get past them.

Viviennemary Mon 14-Jan-13 13:43:40

This is one of the top threads for annoyance. But I am drawn to them like moths to a flame. grin Not been a thread for ages tallking about reserving seats in a cafe before you sit down. That seems to get everyone going!

Eskino Mon 14-Jan-13 13:49:32

And men over 60 wearing pastel sweaters shouldn't drive jaguars or any other massive long saloon car.

Eskino Mon 14-Jan-13 13:52:01

Oh aye, and my aunt is a farmer and manages to get 2 dogs and her 2 kids in a Peugeot 107. She hates driving the Landy

BlueberryHill Mon 14-Jan-13 14:17:17

Threads like these also bring out all the usual cliches about driving Chelsea tractors.

I live rurally, there are so many 4X4s driven by so many different people in all sizes, conditions, age etc, slapping on a crude cliche is just a bit lazy.

EnjoyResponsibly Mon 14-Jan-13 14:32:31

Simplesusan not polish, giant 5 foot+ sprays of flowers to go on coffins grin

somewheresomehow Mon 14-Jan-13 17:04:19

which planet are u on biscuit

DizzyZebra Mon 14-Jan-13 17:06:10

To be fair, You have to pass a test to drive a van. What the OP is proposing is not much different from that.

You could apply to 'we should have choice' argument to anything.

Personally, I don't give a hoot what you drive, As long as you can actually drive it decently, whether it's a mini cooper or a hummer.

Hulababy Mon 14-Jan-13 17:10:49

People should be allowed to chose themselves. I don't want to live a society where the Government get to chose what car I drive.

Where would it stop?

Sports car - only if live on a speedway/race circuit
Van - only if job required it
MPV - only if you have 4 or more children

In fact maybe everyone should only be allowed just one brand of car, issued by the Government, in regulation colour, with only the number of seats required by your family. Oh, and of course - only 1 car per family.

DizzyZebra Mon 14-Jan-13 17:11:45

Also, If you're a cunt in a 4 x 4, You're going to be a cunt in a bog standard 5 door 1.4 jobby. Ban cunts from the road. Not 4 x 4s.

Hulababy Mon 14-Jan-13 17:16:06

Also - still a bit confused if you mean all 4WD cars. DH's car is 4WD - but it is a Golf. It is entirely fuel inefficient tbh - but it is only normal car size.

MPVs are no different to me - still huge monsters of cars, normally drived by people who haven't got a clue how to drive a big car or know how long or wide the thing is.

Mind the car that was causing most misery to me n the school run this morning was the banged up old salon car that was parked half on and off the pavement, and nose into the road - road was icy, it was snowing, was just holding up everyone on the path and the road.

So maybe just ban poor drivers, poor parkers and anyone who doesn't know their own car regardless of make/size/etc.

DizzyZebra Mon 14-Jan-13 17:17:08

Golfs should definitely be banned from the road and anyone who thinks they are nice dragged to the nearest opticians for an eye test wink

CarlingBlackMabel Mon 14-Jan-13 17:17:14

If Ken and now Boris can charge us an extra £10 for driving in Central London, I don't see why people who drive uneccessarily wide vehicles through small residential roads of S London shouldn't pay a Congestion Charge for blocking the road. It's a nightmare waiting for 2 Range Rovers to manouvre past each other in a victorian side street, especially when both are crap at reversing and manouvering.

You just don't need something built for crossing the desert in order to negotiate Dog Kennel Hill and pop to Sainsbury's.

CarlingBlackMabel Mon 14-Jan-13 17:25:27

"Of course they polarise opinion - they are a symbol of excess to those who can't afford them"

I could afford on if I really wanted one. But in an urban environment, when many trips are done on residential roads, and when I pay for the council to grit and salt those roads, it would be a sheer waste of money to get one. The running, servicing, insuring, repairing , taxing costs are high. They don't even have any extra luggage space, half the time. IMO they are a symbol of excess in a town because the expense and size and performance is way beyond the function required of them. Aesthetically many look very crass, I hate the white RRs, the new RR, they just say 'brash excess'.

I don't really think people should be restricted in driving them, but drivers of big wide 4x4s should realise that they do actually have an impact on other drivers in terms of parking spaces and causing jams in narrow roads.

DizzyZebra Mon 14-Jan-13 17:31:51

It's that elusive trait we refer to as 'common sense' again. As in, a good percentage of people are incapable of gaining a clue and using common sense to decide what vehicle suits them and their driving ability best.

BunFagFreddie Mon 14-Jan-13 17:59:44

Nothing good can ever come of these anti 4X4 threads.

EnjoyResponsibly Mon 14-Jan-13 18:05:54

blush I covet a brilliant white Evoque Carling

goldiehorn Mon 14-Jan-13 18:10:45

Well at least all the 'I neeeeeed my sparkling black range rover with personalised number plate and plush leather seating, as I live on a hill and we get snowed in' brigade have got proper use out of their cars today and maybe even tomorrow!

AndABigBirdInaPearTree Mon 14-Jan-13 19:03:45

Why do people keep persisting in equating 4x4s with gigantic cars? They are not the same thing.

CarlingBlackMabel Mon 14-Jan-13 19:08:31

I love the Hard Knott pass.

LineRunner Mon 14-Jan-13 19:14:00

It's a Hard Knott Life.

TwoFacedCows Mon 14-Jan-13 19:27:42

I think that the government should only allow people with more then 2 brain cells to post on forums. hmm

I have a lovely 4X4, there is only DH and myself. Oh and 2 lovely pups. I love driving it, it is so comfortable! We were actually thinking of getting one each!

At 4L petrol engine, it is not cheap to run. But very comfortable on a long drive.

BunFagFreddie Mon 14-Jan-13 19:33:46

Fwiw, I can't summon the muster to get huffy, or even think much about other people's cars. I find it slightly odd that other people do.

QueenofPlaids Mon 14-Jan-13 19:45:24

In an ideal world, people would only drive cars that they have the spatial awareness to manoeuvre and park. This would disqualify some Nissan Micra drivers and my mother entirely wink

FWIW I drive a Smart, but it's a 2nd car. Bad ice / high winds and I'm working from home. Now that you can get a properly sized car with decent fuel consumption I wouldn't buy another.

Can't understand why people can't park Landies though. The visibility is fantastic, especially if you're shorter (as compared to the average family saloon). Have already decided my next car will be a 4x4 grin

thebitchbrigade Mon 14-Jan-13 20:24:37

Landies have a dreadful turning circle though

But I have a Landy (7 seats i have 5 dcs) and a Range Rover (with unfeasibly large petrol engine....) and I am the fucking QUEEN OF CLEVER PARKING!

Can you imagine the drabness of a world in which one could only drive a car fit for purpose. How utterly dull.

amandine07 Mon 14-Jan-13 20:41:05

I don't care what kind of car others wish to drive & spend their money on- so long as they are capable of parking/manovering them competently.
It makes me laugh watching a 4x4 driver who has no concept of width when driving in traffic, causing delays as they gingerly move forward. Then trying to park in the supermarket, painful to watch.

Honestly, if you want to drive a big car around, fine, but at least to drive it and park it properly!

Bellerophon Mon 14-Jan-13 20:48:21

Reading some people's replies on here, it's clear that the aim of being a good mother/citizen is

1) Owning the biggest and best you can buy - house, car, whatever
2) Doing exactly what you want with it and sod the rest of the world
3) Shouting at anyone who points out that you are infringing their rights.

So I should buy a Range Rover L322 or a Land Rover Amazon, crawl down the narrow London Victorian road to the school looking for a parking space for MY CAR WHICH I HAVE A RIGHT TO.

Then park on "keep clear" zig-zags because there are no spaces large enough for my car.

Then beep loudly at anyone who dares challenge me for endangering their child with my behaviour.

Yeah, I like this Mumsnet.

The Prius is a very quiet ride, mainly because it operates on its electric power source most of the time. The complaint is that pedestrians who rely on their hearing to keep them safe on the street are at a much higher risk of being hit, especially when the Prius is moving at low speeds. According to a recent study, hybrid vehicles are twice as likely to be involved in low speed collisions with pedestrians as non-hybrid vehicles. (C&P )

Everyone is selfish.

MiniEggsinJanuary Mon 14-Jan-13 22:46:12

Love that the 4x4 drivers always win these threads!! Survival of the fittest!

MiniEggsinJanuary Mon 14-Jan-13 22:48:38

Amandine might I suggest stalking 4x4 drivers less? I couldn't tell you the average parking ability of a hatchback driver.

BunFagFreddie Mon 14-Jan-13 22:49:28

I don't really have an opinion about 4x4's, but I can't help reading these threads. grin

BunFagFreddie Mon 14-Jan-13 22:50:15

Prius drivers are responsible for all the smug. I saw it on Southpark.

shockers Mon 14-Jan-13 23:01:39


I am fighting his choice, as you can tell.

BunFagFreddie Mon 14-Jan-13 23:06:42

shockers, funnily enough, I know a local person who owns some sort of environmental consultancy and he's involved in local sustainability innitiatives. He's loaded and you've guessed it, he drives a 4x4 and he thinks it's great that the soaring fuel prices will force the peasants off the road. grin

I also know someone who works for an environmental charity who just bought a 4x4. I'm a bit surprised by all of this, because I thought they would both be driving around in swanky hybrids or EV's.

shockers Mon 14-Jan-13 23:15:11

BunFagFreddie... bonkers ain't it??

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme Mon 14-Jan-13 23:36:52

It is more of a class chip-on-the-shoulder thing really though isn't it? Lots of big cars and MPVs and SUVs are only two wheel drive and lots of cars have AWD or 4x4.

And the newer cars tend to have parking sensors and cameras so are much easier to park than the old ones.

I have never seen these dithering big car owners struggling to park in the car parks. I have seen a man in a Volvo go back and forth a few times, so much so that I was tempted to offer to do it for him. I have also seen young men crash small cars that they can't drive and old people crash all manner of cars that they don't know how to drive.

If you're gonna criticise cars, there is such a huge spectrum of appalling driving, you could pretty much pick on anyone.

And I don't have a 4x4, but I do have a huge estate car that is no problem to park because it has parking sensors, thank you very much. grin

BunFagFreddie Mon 14-Jan-13 23:40:36

To be fair, most of the dithering drivers I see are old men, and the make of car is irrelevant.

shockers Tue 15-Jan-13 09:06:55

Hello! This is actually DH of Shockers....sorry she left it open and I looked! I haven't read the whole 9 pages, but just thought I would let you in to my thoughts....(some of them anyway).

Most of the cars on the road at the moment are very similar, i guess to do with aerodynamic etc, the Land Rover and Volvo XC90 types are a bit different. The Land Rover Discovery or Range Rover do around 27 to the gallon and the Volvo around 40ish. If you compare them to older cars probably not much different. They are however nice to drive, have all the toys and for somewhere we spend an awful lot of time, so its nice to have the comfort thing...and if you can afford it then.........only joking ;-) but it is nice to drive...and I can.

As someone has already mentioned, you can pick any type of driver, young, old, women, middle aged, hat wearing, non indicating, parking on school zone, disabled and kids spot taking fools, but that's not the cars fault, and as always, you only see what you want, when you want... it's like suddenly recognising that there are lots of your type of new car on the road; they were there before, it's just now you notice them. You get a bee in your bonnet about 4x4's and you'll notice all the idiot 4x4 drivers and the rest will just get on with life.

I know it's not much of a technical argument, or indeed an environmental one, I try to be as green as possible, I recycle pretty much everything, I cycle, and am very lucky to live where I can walk to most places, but when I need to use the car and have DW(love you and sorry x), kids, friends, dog/s, luggage tents, bikes, its nice to be comfortable. Compare me to someone who has 1 or 2 holiday flights a year, (thanks to my beautiful wife, I get to go camping in England, Wales or Northern France), and i'm pretty sure i'll come out greener....

Just a few thoughts...oh and as I said it's mainly because I like the look of them compared to other cars...I don't normally think as much as this!

I will no doubt never see your replies and will get told off for having posted...but I hope as the good book says, sic 'have a look in your back yard before taking the tree out of your brothers' ;-)........

That's one of the politest (and most reasobable) account-hackings I've ever seen Mr Shockers smile

Jins Tue 15-Jan-13 09:31:39

These threads always make me want to trade my car in for a 4x4

specialsubject Tue 15-Jan-13 09:37:23

the OP said you could have one if you needed one. So that's ok for all of you who live in the back of beyond, up steep unsurfaced hills, on farms and so on.

in cities they serve as a useful warning to everyone else that the driver is probably not very good. They are also a way for people who can't observe speed limits to go over those bloody speed humps without noticing. I have to go over those at 15mph or less in my car to avoid damage, and whenever I do this a Chelsea tractor materialises tied to my rear bumper. Very strange.

theodorakisses Tue 15-Jan-13 11:36:06

This whole thread reads like a piece of self congratulating sanctimonious bollocks, can you imagine meeting people in real life who actually have conversations about what cars people should have? I bet if such creatures exist they are very twitchy nervy tightbums who alternate between MN 4x4 posts and the hilarious 11 plus websites that I think are satirical and written by Jo Brand and Jennifer Saunders.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Tue 15-Jan-13 11:43:05

I've said it before and I'll say it again - that is exactly why trying to affect change for the better in the environment is so very difficult. People who do care and try and spread the word are immediately labelled sanctimonious, judgemental hippies by those who feel judged. Christ, encouraging my MIL to compost her veg in her enormous garden, or throw her 8000 wine bottles a week in the recycling (provided) rather than the bin feels like an exercise in careful, crucial diplomacy.

I'm not even talking about bloody 4x4s here.

theodorakisses Tue 15-Jan-13 12:43:17

Well I am talking about 4 x 4s not compost or mothers in law who are revolting enough to have a big garden, how dare she?

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Tue 15-Jan-13 13:34:45

I think you wilfully misunderstood my post. I didn't mean it like that at all - don't be ridiculous.

Shit - a 4x4 thread that I have missed.

Is Everlong on?

Acksherly - just wondering if this could be another wind up - like the baby names from the fridge thread started by a poster from another forum....

shallweshop Tue 15-Jan-13 13:43:52

Husband is a farmer so presumably, you would allow him his 4x4. I don't work and mainly use my 4x4 for school run and round town but I do also use it when I take the dog for a walk in the New Forest, where we live, as many of the tracks/fords etc would not be manageable in a standard car.

I must add that my car is new and therefore probably a lot more efficient both in terms of fuel and emissions than a lot of older vehicles (even non 4x4's) on the road.

OwlLady Tue 15-Jan-13 13:46:27

I laugh at people who buy those pick up things when they don't need one and the most you could put in the back is a couple of bags of shopping <warrior>

I live really quite rurally and manage with a really crap french car but I don't expect someone who works in the agricultural industry to cope with it

theodorakisses Tue 15-Jan-13 13:55:52

Both sides of this ludicrous argument think they deserve a badge for being so clever. I can't imagine ever wanting to have a shitty little car and some people couldn't imagine anything worse than driving my Escalade or Hummer. It's not like you are going to change my perception any more than I will change yours. We think each other are idiots and we only come on here to defend our views.

TameGaloot Tue 15-Jan-13 14:04:57

I'm wishing we had our landy now. Dh is on the way home but they have closed the road into town. Cara are being abandoned on the road to the dss school. Not quite sure how we'll get them.

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme Tue 15-Jan-13 14:05:31

I love a 4x4 thread. Satisfyingly predictable.

Jins Tue 15-Jan-13 14:07:46

I laugh at people who buy those pick up things when they don't need one and the most you could put in the back is a couple of bags of shopping <warrior>

We had one of them back when they were zero rated for company car tax and I can assure you that you can get a lot more than a couple of bags of shopping in them

I still miss it

OwlLady Tue 15-Jan-13 14:11:11

what even in those warriors? the boots look tiny

I know other makes are different

Jins Tue 15-Jan-13 14:14:01

It's a commercial vehicle rated to carry a tonne

The flat bed part is about 6ft deep. They are massive, honestly

OwlLady Tue 15-Jan-13 14:21:11

Ok, I stand corrected! smile

TwoFacedCows Tue 15-Jan-13 18:48:00

Jins "These threads always make me want to trade my car in for a 4x4" - It is threads like these that make me wish I could afford to buy you one!! grin

monsterchild Tue 15-Jan-13 18:58:27

We have a mahoosive 4x4. Not a primary vehicle, but useful on the farm and excellent for long road trips. nightmare to park, great for horses.

theodorakisses Wed 16-Jan-13 07:52:37

If I said I laughed at Micra drivers it would sound patronising and snobbish. Why is it ok for people to laugh at Warrior drivers or anyone come to that? Since when was laughing at people ok? Doesn't come across well.

salemsparklys Wed 16-Jan-13 12:04:38

We have horses and live on a farm, can we keep ours then?

theodorakisses Wed 16-Jan-13 13:31:21

You don't even have to justify your choice of vehicle, you pay the taxes. In qatar which I appreciate is different, we had a very serious accident and, no doubt, would have been dead if we were not in a reinforced vehicle. At the end of the day will my heart bleed and make me feel guilty for my children still having parents? No. My money, my vehicle, my choice. I feel less safe on the UK motorways and always have a big hire car. Same reason. Again, my money, my choice. Out of interest, what are the stats on 4x4s killing pedestrians and small car passengers?

atthewelles Wed 16-Jan-13 13:36:38

Don't see the point of them in built up urban areas. They are not designed for narrow congested roads or busy car parks and can be a real obstruction. Driving one around the suburbs is a bit like wearing sun glasses on a dull day - silly poserish behaviour.

everlong Wed 16-Jan-13 13:39:34

Exit you will pleased to know I didn't succumb. what is wrong with me grin

constantine2000 Wed 16-Jan-13 13:41:12

Anita - you should be allowed one of course. Long as you can drive it properly!

TameGaloot Wed 16-Jan-13 13:55:19

But you could be a farmer and still be dropping of your dds friends at her house in a suburban street. People who live rurally often go into towns to buy supplies, see people, go to the cinema. Should we all have our addresses on our 4x4s so people can check

theodorakisses Wed 16-Jan-13 14:21:40

Maybe someone should design a smug car sticker "Yes I do need it"

AndABigBirdInaPearTree Wed 16-Jan-13 15:11:25

I think a large helping of mud would probably do the same thing Theo.

TwoFacedCows Wed 16-Jan-13 15:41:12

I want one that says " No i dont NEED it, but i have one so go suck eggs!" grin

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme Wed 16-Jan-13 23:08:08

Slightly off topic but I genuinely saw a sign in the back of a car the other day that said 'warning - driver asleep'. I shit you not. Brilliant. grin

I hope all you 4x4 drivers were a little bit smug in the snow today. With your high performance high grip 4x4 tyres. I would have been. Very much so. Oh yes.

Hulababy Fri 18-Jan-13 21:01:09

Didn't move my car today. It doesn't really do snow. Dh's 4wd (a golf though so ok i think?) had no problems though. Think may 4x4 s were probably justified today!

BeanJuice Fri 18-Jan-13 21:07:46

They should be more highly taxed, definitely, but not banned unless essential - that's a bit silly.

OwlCatMouse Fri 18-Jan-13 21:34:15

After the floods of the last couple of months, and the snow today (and getting stuck down a hill, fishtailing everywhere and someone going into the back of me) - the next car I buy will be a 4x4 that can handle shitty weather.

LiveItUp Fri 18-Jan-13 23:14:22

Totally justified now .... I'm sure the news just asked drivers of 4x4's to come forward and help primary care workers get in to work. (Wasn't totally watching as on here!). Anyone else see that?

Why should they be taxed more than they already are beanjuice?

BeanJuice Sat 19-Jan-13 08:45:58

Because cars in general, and 4x4s especially, aren't taxed enough to cover the negative externalities they cause.

OwlCatMouse Sat 19-Jan-13 08:58:33

I think the tax on fuel is more than enough actually.

BeanJuice Sat 19-Jan-13 09:12:03

It isn't though. It doesn't cover congestion, noise, pollution and all other negative externalities. What we should really have is a sophisticated road pricing system, varying on car, road and time of day, but would be too unpopular.

chris481 Sat 19-Jan-13 09:14:12


I read somewhere (probably The Economist ) that the current level of taxes on fuel is above the level required to compensate for the negative externalities of burning the fuel.

I don't know about other car-related negative externalities though.

bedmonster Sat 19-Jan-13 09:24:01

Sorry, haven't read last couple of pages but just to say having a 4x4 has benefited others in all the snow. Our local council put out a plea for people to deliver meals on wheels as their van wouldn't cope with the roads. I spent a couple of hours yesterday driving dinners around feeling very useful!

melika Sat 19-Jan-13 09:34:07

I got a compact 4x4 which is a Ford Kuga, is superb in this snow.

It's not big, it uses about the same as a normal car, 32 mpg. We live on roads which are not gritted and we need to open our business. So do I qualify for flaming?

byanymeans Sat 19-Jan-13 09:46:41

I have a 1965 classic landrover. I love her and would not give her up for all the tea in china. She is very fuel economic,more so then alot of modern cars my friends have. I dont drive my little one to school in her,we walk and I cant go super market shopping in her because she is too tall for the car park so we online shop and big gas guzzeling van drops off the shopping.
We dont live on a farm (anymore) but we use her to tow, help friends out (alot), pull random people though floods and up snowed in hills plus as a family 'car' .
We use alot less fuel then most familes as my partner cycles 8miles to work each day and I walk alot.
We have a fuel budget each month to use in the motor bikes or landy when the budget is gone we walk.
Please dont judge all 4x4 drivers the same!

jjuice Sat 19-Jan-13 10:11:35

I hate the way that all 4x4 drivers are lumped together as ostentatious wanker drivers who can't park and think they are better than everyone else.

I know loads of people who have 4x4s some trucks some Range Rovers some Cars etc etc and have never seen any of them lording it around. It's just their choice of vehicle. It seems only non 4x4 drivers see them as a way of saying look at me me and look how much money I have.

as for parking and bad driving
You get a bee in your bonnet about 4x4's and you'll notice all the idiot 4x4 drivers and the rest will just get on with life.
This ^

OwlCatMouse Sat 19-Jan-13 10:48:46

Beanjuice - presumably you know that the cost of fuel is about 50p a litre, 5p (ish) goes to the filling station, the rest is tax.

So for my quite efficient car (40-50mpg, typically) I pay over £1000 a year, purely in fuel tax, and the vat on fuel.

I only fill up twice a month as well. I dread what people have to pay if they have to use their car to commute every day.

You can't expect motorists to pay to use the road on top of all that, unless there is a viable alternative - namely affordable, reliable public transport.

OwlCatMouse Sat 19-Jan-13 10:52:21

..and penslising people who have to drive in rush hour is just punishing people who need to get to work.

Pan Sat 19-Jan-13 11:07:23

Cyclists and 4 X 4ers have a common characteristic on these threads sometimes i.e. they get lambasted as if they are all the same.

I don't really care who drives what, so long as they do it safely.

Having said that.. I ride my bike into and out of a busy city every day - 2 hours on the road, about 120 miles per week. 99.99reoccuring % of drivers are fine and understanding. The vast majority of hassles I have had have been from Chelsea/Sainsbo tractor drivers - cars that have never been off-road and one suspects they are the 'image brigade'. Unfortunatley, that 'image' I suspect is that they have a sense of entitlement and that includes not giving cyclists the time or room of day that we need. Those instances are v few and far between, but those tractors are massively over-represented ( in this survey grin) than any other road user.

TheFallenNinja Sat 19-Jan-13 11:10:55

Yes. What else should the government control in your view?

Pan Sat 19-Jan-13 11:16:05

It shouldn't the govt to control. It should be me. I will set up an independent agency quango, and if people want to own a 4 X 4 then they fill out a very complicated form, in triplicate, and send it to me. I look at it. Go on holibobs for a couple of weeks. Then come back, and ask a couple of supplementary questions.
Unless you can show you actually need such a car (outside of vanity/feelings of power) then the answer is "no."

I'm reasonable.
And there's no need to thank

shockers Sat 19-Jan-13 11:24:24

I do think freedom of choice is important, as long as you respect the right of every citizen of the world to have that same freedom. Looking forward to the day when the population of China decide that they all need a thirsty car... not.

I think it's about deciding for yourself whether you actually need something.

shockers Sat 19-Jan-13 11:25:39

grin @ Pan

freddiefrog Sat 19-Jan-13 13:55:06

I'm sure the news just asked drivers of 4x4's to come forward and help primary care workers get in to work. (Wasn't totally watching as on here!). Anyone else see that?

Yep. Our council always asks 4x4 drivers to help out in adverse weather conditions.

I spent a couple of hours yesterday driving a nurse around to her urgent appointments

Hulababy Mon 21-Jan-13 18:09:39

Justified again today. Wish I'd had a big 4x4! DH's smaller 4wd couldn't get out today as too deep; didn't enjoy the walk.

everlong Mon 21-Jan-13 18:16:29

Today was a breeze getting ds to school 6 miles away. Nice little stress free jaunt.

smile <-- yep that could be a smug face.

To combine two threads, what if I said I used mine to pick up part of a barely used but secondhand living room set which has a lifetime warranty on the frame and cushions? We also used our pickup truck to buy a barely used immaculate (originally $4000 but now $400 and used a total of !!5!! times from someone who had downsized) three piece suite and deliver our 20 year sofa bed to a college student who was thrilled to be able to give it some more love. What if I told you that in our neighbourhood we often share vehicles, our neighbour had a well loved pickup that was loaned out to many neighbours when they needed to haul something, when that died we bought one which has already been loaned out to friends and neighbours.

tittytittyhanghang Mon 21-Jan-13 19:12:06

right now im loving my 4x4. I also have smug face on.

BeanJuice Mon 21-Jan-13 19:26:37

How wonderful that your 4x4 is helpful for about 2 days a year and annoying to everyone else the other 363 grin

everlong Mon 21-Jan-13 19:29:52

I know.

DH is doing his bit for community tonight, he has gone out in the snow in his 4x4 to the local Indian takeaway to fix their deep fat fryer, you can't get more community spirited than that can you? grin

BeanJuice Mon 21-Jan-13 19:36:11

Binky grin

They can't be any worse than my Almera, £70 I used in petrol one week and road tax is £250 a year or £137 for 6 months!

WMittens Mon 21-Jan-13 22:19:47

I got a compact 4x4 which is a Ford Kuga, is superb in this snow.

It's not big, it uses about the same as a normal car, 32 mpg.

If what I've found is true that only the 163bhp 2 litre diesel is 4WD, then 32mpg is rubbish fuel economy.

WMittens Mon 21-Jan-13 22:22:56

Ignore that last post

Hobbitation Mon 21-Jan-13 22:26:02

I think a lot of people on here who think they have a 4x4 in fact just have an SUV or a car that kind of shape, which may or may not be necessarily four wheel drive.

LibraryMum8 Mon 21-Jan-13 22:27:31


Everlong - you turned up!

Hobbitation, and vice versa.

Hobbitation Mon 21-Jan-13 23:45:29

Yes exactly. Ooh, it's an SUV, must be a gas guzzler. My 7 year old estate car only does 32 mpg around town, I bet there are numerous more fuel efficient SUVs/4x4s these days.

pugsandseals Mon 21-Jan-13 23:49:00

UABU - What next? Everyone must drive a Nissan Micra? As it happens my car is not 4x4 but does come in a 4x4 version that gets around 40-45mpg (not bad). I live in the middle of nowhere, we have 2 buses a day to our village & the council rarely fill in the humungus pot holes left by the lorries which the council allow to use our road as a rat run. Would that qualify in your world? Probably not because I do actually drive it in town too & you would look at me & judge! There are many reasons for using bigger more off-roady cars. It might just be that the driver gets a bad back & prefers the upright driving position! Nobody's car choice should be subject to regulation until we all have a perfect transport system that supports the needs of all (like that's going to happen!)

Skyebluesapphire Mon 21-Jan-13 23:53:37

I know people who are thinking about getting a twin cab truck, the sort of thing driven by farmers and contractors etc..... neither of them have a job that warrants a 4x4 , they have 2 young kids, and live in a small town. They also have no money...

So no, YANBU - some people certainly dont need them.

The Mazda CX5 I think it is called does that on the American cycle which translates to hmm...almost 35mpg in the UK.

lurkerspeaks Tue 22-Jan-13 00:35:11

I'm pissing myself laughing at the confusion over 4WD.

I live in town and drive an eco-geared normal car. It is pish in snow and I'm v. Grateful my rural hobby obsessed brother lends me his "proper" 4x4 (an ancient defender) to get to work on snowyh days. I return the favour by letting him use my car if he has to go out to see clients (his rusty muddy car is at odds with his professional persona).

What amuses me is watching my neighbours spectacularly fail to conquer the snow even in their 4wd. Some of them have v. Shiny rangies but seem blissfully unaware of how to actually drive them. Frustrates my poor bro who would live a new Range Rover and would take it off road. Nothing makes me happier than a muddy off roader.

My urban cobbled hilly road is so bad that I might consider a 4wd car (do not a proper off roader) and would discount anything rear wheel drive.

The best car for the snow IME -my sisters matiz. It is a crap car but handles snow with aplomb.

differentnameforthis Tue 22-Jan-13 01:58:01

Hahahaha "allowed" really! Cars should be means tested now? My car is a 4x4 when you want it to be & it is more fuel efficient that than the car I traded in.

Morloth Tue 22-Jan-13 07:19:28

It is odd on MN at the moment.

It would appear that vast numbers of people loathe the current Government, but at the same time want to give them much more control over people's day to day lives.

Someone must be able to explain it to me.

coraltoes Tue 22-Jan-13 10:50:14

Hahaha the day my car choice is dictated by some hand wringing loon on mnet is the day Kerry Katona becomes queen. My car, my expense, my choice.

Next idiotic suggestion pls?

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