AIBU about these customers?

(107 Posts)
PeacockFeathers Sat 12-Jan-13 18:12:00

Was spoken to like crap today at work by two very well spoken and dressed youngsters. DP was stood nearby in the shop making purchases coicidently and thinks I WBU.

Two young people wanting to buy wine. Both look under 25.

He has ID, she doesn't. I tell them I need to see both or I can't sell it to them, the law is clear on suspecting they are purchasing it for someone who is underage.

He offers uni ID with no date of birth on it, I tell him sorry but its not an accepted form of ID.

Both proceed to have a rant at me, telling me the law only applies to who is buying the alcohol. Tell me to use my common sense.

Call my supervisor over who backs me up and asks them to stop speaking to me like that.

Boy rants about how I am supposed to provide good customer service. Asks for my name and says they will complain.

DP thinks I ruined someones night. I think the boy looked anywhere from 16+ so was right, but feel shite at how patronising they were.

Isityouorme Sat 12-Jan-13 18:14:32

Your dp is an immature dick.... Can't believe he is condoning underage drinking and putting your job at risk.

dikkertjedap Sat 12-Jan-13 18:14:53

If more people behaved like you, I wouldn't have such a problem with youngsters drinking themselves senseless in the car park of the small shopping centre where I live. So, no, you are most definitely not unreasonable.

SoWhatIfImWorkingClass Sat 12-Jan-13 18:17:03

Aaah I know just how you feel. When I worked for a supermarket I used to have to ask ALL of them for their ID.

Think about it, they could well be acting and working for the trading standards. They could be pulling all stops to try and catch someone out. It's not worth it in my opinion getting a potential fine when it can be avoided.

YANBU

MrsRajeshKoothrappali Sat 12-Jan-13 18:17:42

If you'd been caught serving under-agers you'd face a massive fine and the possibility of a criminal record.

Of course you weren't being unreasonable.

You were right, DP was wrong.

Point out to him that YOU as an individual are held responsible and could lose your job, be prosecuted etc etc if you had sold alcohol to someone intending to pass it on to a person who is underage.

YOU could be fined - would he rather that than ruin someone's night on the off chance they might be 18??

He's probably thinking about how much being ID'd annoyed him when he was underage/of age but not carrying ID - whereas he ought to be thinking of how negatively just letting it go could impact on you.

5Foot5 Sat 12-Jan-13 18:18:27

You were in the right. If there was any doubt whatsoever that they too young to but it and they couldn't prove their age then you were doing your job correctly and they were being very rude. I wouldn't worry about a complaint because surely your managers would see it the same way and you did have your supervisor to back you up.

PeacockFeathers Sat 12-Jan-13 18:18:37

The one with ID got all high on their horse about how they're 24. Guess what mate? Me too, and I carry ID all the time.

I really struggle. Some people I think look in their 20s are just 18 and others look really young and are old.I guess thats why we challenge 25.

I just don't get why they had to verbally maul me when I'm just doing my job sad. I came home expecting DP to be outraged at how they spoke to me.

ChaoticintheNewYear Sat 12-Jan-13 18:20:29

Does your idiotic DP really want you to risk losing your job?

HIBVVVU

YANBU

SoWhatIfImWorkingClass Sat 12-Jan-13 18:20:59

Let them put a complaint in. Shows how much they are spitting their dummies out.

PeacockFeathers Sat 12-Jan-13 18:22:07

5foot5- My supervisor was going to make my line manager aware. She said I'd done everything right.

What suprises me is that I've refused to serve soms scary looking people because one didn't have ID. And they always accept I'm just doing my job. I wasn't expecting it from these people-sneering at me.

Binkybix Sat 12-Jan-13 18:23:17

Is it really the rule that both people have to have ID if one is buying alcohol? TBH I would be put out if someone wouldn't serve me because some I was with didn't have ID. However, if this is the rule then it's just your job to enforce it.

OddBoots Sat 12-Jan-13 18:23:22

YANBU, I'm glad your supervisor backed you up but it must be very frustrating. If you think there is going to be a complaint then make a note of what happened (just take a copy of that bit of your OP) just for a record and I am sure you'll be backed.

I do find it frustrating sometimes that I can only buy alcohol when I don't have my 13yo ds with me but I'd rather that than make underage drinking easier.

manicbmc Sat 12-Jan-13 18:24:53

It states clearly that if people look under 25 they will be asked for ID. They didn't have any so it's tough. They can complain all they like but you weren't rude to them and you were following the law.

Your dp is an arse.

LilQueenie Sat 12-Jan-13 18:25:53

wait am I missing something? They were 24 and yet had to prove they looked over 25? For something you need to be 18 to buy! You are in the right OP but the laws need a bit more tweaking I think.

Binkybix Sat 12-Jan-13 18:28:10

I think the 'challenge 25' policy is a company policy rather than the law, put in place to make extra sure they don't sell to under 18s and therefore get a fine.

PeacockFeathers Sat 12-Jan-13 18:28:54

Binky- Yes, because I am not allowed to sell alcohol to someone if I suspect they are buying it for someone who is underage.

MrsReiver Sat 12-Jan-13 18:29:41

LilQueenie, why? I think the Challenge 25 law is perfectly reasonable.

PeacockFeathers Sat 12-Jan-13 18:30:09

LilQueenie-one had ID to say they were 24. Other had nothing with age on.Could've been 16 from all I cpuld tell of their face.

MrsReiver Sat 12-Jan-13 18:30:29

Binky Challenge 25 is the law in Scotland.

maddening Sat 12-Jan-13 18:33:59

My friend and I were refused when we were 30 - I think as we were buying lots of different drinks (cocktails) it included lots that you wouldn't think youngsters would go for: champagne, archers etc but I only had my paper driving licence as I had passed a long time before the photo id ones. My friend had no id apart from her social worker id but that wouldn't do as no dob. We did say we thought it was daft and another lady said we were obviously old enough - we didn't give her any bother and went somewhere else.

Binkybix Sat 12-Jan-13 18:34:59

I stand corrected!

Agree that in the OP's situation it was likely they would drink it together. How would that actually be proven though, if it was some sort of 'mystery shopper' thing, and they were trying to fine you for it?

porridgewithalmondmilk Sat 12-Jan-13 18:36:16

I love being asked for ID. I'm 33 this year and the joy I feel thinking someone thinks I look under 25 far outlives any minor annoyance at not getting alcohol grin

LilQueenie Sat 12-Jan-13 18:36:48

What I mean is you need to be 18 to buy alcohol but still need to look older than that? Why not make it so everyone needs an id card to buy alcohol. In some ways it could save a life if it had to swiped. Too many units bought then no more in a certain time frame. I was reading an article about alcoholism and it got me thinking.

You WNBU, and perhaps you can get your DP to read this thread.

If he thinks you were unreasonable, would he be happy to pay the £1000 fine that you could personally be lumbered with?

Would he be happy if you got a criminal record for selling alcohol to someone underage?

I think that, like many people, he isn't aware that the person on the till can be held personally responsible if alcohol is sold to an underage person. I know my parents weren't until I pointed it out to them recently.

ihearsounds Sat 12-Jan-13 18:38:53

Is this a new thing that both need to be id'd?
I sometimes have my dc's with me when buying alcohol, never refused regardless where i go. Nye dc's were going seperate parties in the same direction so travelled together. On the way ds stopped to buy alcohol and younger dc was in shop with him. He was id'd, she wasnt and he was served.

littlewhitebag Sat 12-Jan-13 18:39:45

My DD is 20 and would absolutely expect to be refused if she had no ID with her. Also if she is with me in the supermarket and i am buying wine and she has forgotten her ID she will go to the car in case they think i am buying it for her. <not a chance>

balia Sat 12-Jan-13 18:40:09

I didn't know about the both have ID thing and got caught out in the supermarket with DD. I was looking for a particular kind of white wine to take to a family friend's for a meal. DD (then 17) found it and pointed it out to me saying something like 'This one, Mum' and then a security guard came over and said I couldn't buy it because she had picked it out so I was buying it for her.

You have my sympathy, though, OP - I used to work in a video store and a few times had people being really arsey because I couldn't rent 18's to their children even if they gave permission on the phone.

Brodicea Sat 12-Jan-13 18:41:29

YANBU - loads of places ID people all the time. Near me, they (super markets and offies) ID anyone who looks under 45! Hence, at 32 I still carry ID - they should have expected this scenario.

It really annoys me how people think 'customer service' means doing whatever the customer says.

FiveGoMadInDorset Sat 12-Jan-13 18:42:56

Unfortunately the well spoken ones are the ones who sneer most (group up with the kind). Well done and your DP is BU.

FiveGoMadInDorset Sat 12-Jan-13 18:43:19

sorry - grew up.

BigShinyBaubles Sat 12-Jan-13 18:45:56

I work for Tesco, at out new Think 25 training we were told only the customer buying the alcohol has to provide i.d now. It used to be all those present but its changed.
I see every day how annoyed alot of customers get but our jobs depend on us being vigilant. I certainly am not prepared to get a fine, lose my job and possibly get a criminal record so you can have a drink.

BigShinyBaubles Sat 12-Jan-13 18:46:45

Oh sorry, they were totally bu to speak to you like that so Im glad your manager backed you up.

SpicyPear Sat 12-Jan-13 18:49:08

YANBU. I'm 30 and stated carrying ID when the supermarkets started getting stricter as I have been asked the odd time. You were doing you're job and there are usually plenty of notices up so they know to carry ID. One nice lady did accept my wedding ring as ID though and said "oh I got that very wrong didn't I?" smile

EmpressOfThePuddle Sat 12-Jan-13 18:50:13

My 16 year old cousin regularly gets her makeup on and tries to persuade shops to sell her alcohol without ID.

The moment she's paid for it, the police officers she's working with pile in and the seller has a nasty shock.

You did exactly the right thing.

SpicyPear Sat 12-Jan-13 18:51:37

Ooh Empress I would have loved to do that!

PeacockFeathers Sat 12-Jan-13 18:53:05

BigShinyBaubles- We have had it reiterated to us that all must provide ID. I don't work for Tesco though so must be different policies. I have been refused in pubs too because they thought I was buying for young-looking friends.

Oooh, how can I get my dd that job! Shed love it!

Itsaboatjack Sat 12-Jan-13 18:57:55

Challenge 25 is not law, but it is a very common policy in most places. If you sold the alcohol to the 24yr old with ID then you wouldn't get fined. 'Suspecting' that they are going to give it to give it to someone underage is very subjective and would be difficult to prove in order to prosecute.

However saying that if it is your company policy to ID both then that is what you should have done and your supervisor was correct in supporting you just doing your job.

TataClaire Sat 12-Jan-13 19:05:58

I used to get this all the time when I was a manger at a cinema, people used to get absolutely hysterical about it to the point that we sometimes had to call security/police...
stand firm, rules are rules and quite frankly they need to get a grip if not having a bit of alcohol is going to ruin their day. It's also foolish not to carry proper ID!

blueemerald Sat 12-Jan-13 19:09:07

Although it's never an excuse to be aggressive or rude to anyone I do find the challenge 25 thing incredibly annoying! The law states you need to be 18 to buy alcohol in this country. I have always looked very young for my age. Growing up I finally looked 18 (at about 21) and many places changed it to challenge 21. When I looked 21 (now really, at 26) more and more places have challenge 25. I don't have a passport and I don't drive. I'm reluctant to spend £50 on a provisional license. 70% of the time I can get away with using my expired passport.
I work in a school and I've been ID'd in the pub after work on a Friday with my 17 year old sixth formers sitting across the bar. (Yes, I have a quiet word and suggest the staff ID them)

Of course, none of this was your decision OP and your DP should be supportive.

Paiviaso Sat 12-Jan-13 19:09:35

I think the idea that you must look 25 to be able to buy something restricted to under 18s is ridiculous. You should need to look 18.

I have had occasions ruined because I did not have ID. It is incredibly frustrating to be denied service in my late 20s. I don't look 17, sell me my drink.

I know it's not the cashiers fault - though some of them do have very dodgy judgement, as we see when stories of elderly ladies denied sale emerge. My boyfriend was denied sale once because he showed his provisional driving licence, and they "only accepted full driving licences." confused

"ruined someones night." hmm

Your dp is an idiot.

bruffin Sat 12-Jan-13 19:18:10

My ds is 17 and has a UCAS and a NUS card, they and them out to 6th formers now so they are not proof of over 18

NamingOfParts Sat 12-Jan-13 19:20:25

YANBU - DD(17) and her BF(19) understand these rules perfectly well. If BF is buying alcohol then DD stays in the car.

BTW before anyone gets judgy BF was buying wine as a gift for his family. The alcohol gene seems to have skipped DD completely (no I'm not naive!).

MrsReiver Sat 12-Jan-13 19:22:26

My turn to stand corrected - just checked and Challenge 25 isn't law, just a policy. I apologise.

nokidshere Sat 12-Jan-13 19:27:39

I agree with the providing ID but not necessarily for all in the shop.

I wanted to buy strepsils for my 14 year old son who was with me in the shop. I asked him what flavour he wanted and she said she couldn't sell it to me because I was buying it for him -wtaf???? Strepsils can be used for over 12's but she still refused to sell it to me.

If I hadn't have asked him she wouldn't have questioned as to who they were for. Makes no sense at all. My sons are often with me if I am buying wine I would be very pissed off if I couldn't have it because I had a teenager with me.

WoweeZowee Sat 12-Jan-13 19:39:34

YANBU. IME the more fuss someone makes about being ID'd, the less likely they actually are to be of age.

RedToothbrush Sat 12-Jan-13 19:50:01

You know, I wish EVERYONE was IDed. Its much fairer, everyone knows where they stand and it doesn't put the seller at risk nor does it piss off the buyer.

NatashaBee Sat 12-Jan-13 19:51:35

You would be personally responsible for the fine if you sold to an underage customer, would your DH be happy to chip in for it? Thought not.

RedToothbrush Sat 12-Jan-13 19:53:09

WoweeZowee Sat 12-Jan-13 19:39:34
YANBU. IME the more fuss someone makes about being ID'd, the less likely they actually are to be of age.

Bollocks. I'm 34. I occasionally get IDed - this isn't cos I look young. Its cos I am a short arse and anyone with eyesight should be able to work out I'm not under 18, and tbh 25. I have argued the toss over it as its bloody embarassing at times, depending on how its been done. Its how its done that can often be the issue, not the fact you are being IDed.

ArtemisatBrauron Sat 12-Jan-13 19:55:08

YANBU because it's store policy and obv not your fault, but this is one of my pet hates! I am 27 and I get IDed ALL the time because of the "challenge 25" policy. What the hell does a 25 year old look like anyway? In America they ID everyone, it's much fairer and less irritating to be singled out because a random person thinks you look 'under 25' which is 7 years older than you bloody well need to be to buy drink anyway!
Also the thing about having people with you - this just encourages people to hide outside/send older friends in alone - I bet the person you refused just went into another store alone and bought his alcohol in peace.

sausagesandwich34 Sat 12-Jan-13 19:59:22

I think the idea that you must look 25 to be able to buy something restricted to under 18s is ridiculous. You should need to look 18.

actually you need to be 18 grin

they were obviously together, she had no ID = no sale!

HollaAtMeBaby Sat 12-Jan-13 20:16:13

You don't have to look 25! but if shop staff think you don't look 25, they have to ID you. You then need to produce ID to prove that you are at least 18 years old.

OP, YANBU please ID women who look over 25 occasionally as well, it makes my day and happens too rarely

Startail Sat 12-Jan-13 20:19:20

Clearly you cannot sell alcohol to someone who can't provide valid dated ID.

Whether you should worry who they are with I find less clear.

DD1 is 14 and perhaps once or twice a week has a glass of what we are having.

So technically I am buying alcohol for a minor, but she is allowed to drink in her own home.

So do you refuse to serve me, when I have over a £100 worth of food in the trolly, which I assure you I will leave for you to put back.

Do as they always have and serve me and DD helps pack.

Or do I have to send DD out to the car so you don't know I have a teen.

Whole thing strikes me as barking mad.

Me and DP are 23 and 24 respectively, we fully expect to be IDed and have been turned down for buying a bottle of wine in the past when one of us has forgotten ID! They were just idiots and as they caused such a fuss about it, I would suspect she wasn't 18 yet! I used to sell cigarettes in a corner shop and the only ones who kicked up a fuss were those not 16/18 yet (I worked through the change, had some very angry regulars for a while!)

i too think EVERYONE should be id'd, and show a picture id, from 18 year olds to 90 year olds. most teenagers nowadays look to be early 20's and personally, i suck at guessing peoples ages (i used to work in a supermarket), everyone would know where they stand and cashiers wouldnt get so much abuse (i know what thats like too). same goes for fags.

no id = no sale

PeacockFeathers Sat 12-Jan-13 20:37:58

Startail- A parent and child with a weeks worth of food is different. Unless you said something to her like "I'll buy this for you", I have no reason to believe you will be giving it to her.

Two young people, buying a couple of nibbles and a bottle of wine I will assume they are going to drink them together.

MammaTJ Sat 12-Jan-13 20:40:37

Is your DP prepared to support you fully should you get the sack for not following company policy and the law?

Quite frankly I am offended that my 45 year old self does not get IDd at all!! RUDE!!!

CombineBananaFister Sat 12-Jan-13 20:47:43

YANBU, and your DP is being a tool, it is ILLEGAL not just spoiling someones fun and it shouldn't matter whether he agrees with the policy or not its what your empoyers want and so you do it to keep your job he should resoect that. You do only have to be 18 to legally purchase alcohol but on a training session I recently did with photos of people ranging from 14-28 no-one guessed their ages right - so how can you be sure, can anyone afford to gamble 6 mths in prison/ £5000? put in the challenge 25 of if they look younger then ID. to be safe. I doubt it was a spot check though, they aren't allowed to argue back or make themselves look older - they are there to see if you do genuinely I.D those who look younger NOT to catch you out. I also thought if you suspected it could be being passed o to underagers you refused sale/asked all for I.D. You did the right thing they were being arseholes smile

NamingOfParts Sat 12-Jan-13 20:52:26

I'm with you MammaTJ it is depressing when the people on the self-service checkouts in Tesco tick through the 'customer looks under 25?' question without even looking up!

littlewhitebag Sat 12-Jan-13 21:26:47

When i was in the US with my family my mother and i were asked to provide ID when buying a bottle of wine- i am 50 and she is 72. Boy did we laugh!! It is very normal over there for everyone to be asked for ID.

shesariver Sat 12-Jan-13 21:29:03

Well I dont think yabu at all. But there are cases when its just stupidly interpreted - such as the stories of people in their 40s being refused alcohol if they have their teenage child with them, in case the alcohol is for them which is bonkers. My DS is now 19 so wouldnt be seen dead in a supermarket with me but there were times he was, I would hate to think I couldn't get a bottle of wine just because he was with me.

Itsaboatjack Sat 12-Jan-13 21:30:19

combine it would not have been illegal for her to sell the alcohol to the guy with ID. The fact that the friend did not have ID is a company policy not he law.

NumericalMum Sat 12-Jan-13 21:36:45

My DSis got IDed buy a 15 video game. She is 30. That was ludicrous. Buying alcohol I haven't been IDed for about 5 years sobs

A few posters have said abotu getting IDed at various ages... it suddenly stopped for me after having DC. I look my age now.

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 12-Jan-13 21:45:51

My friend had a whole trolley full of shopping in Morrisons once, but as she had a bottle of vodka and her 17 year old ds with her they wouldn't sell it to her.
If I'd been her I'd have left all the shopping at the checkout and walked out but she decided to pay and just forgo the alcohol as it would have been too much hassle doing it all again.
The law says 18, and if it's clearly an adult and/or parent doing the shopping then it's bloody ridiculous.
I would also resent everybody having to show id, I''m 56 and do not live in a police state.

Catchingmockingbirds Sat 12-Jan-13 21:46:40

You weren't being unreasonable, you need to ask people for ID because it's your job and risk getting into a lot of trouble. I can see why they were irritated, it is annoying getting ID'd when you're over age and you've not conveniently got your passport with you especially when the other person has ID with them and is buying the alcohol but you both need it. But they shouldn't have spoken to you nastily or threaten to complain.

You've not ruined their night though, they could just go elsewhere and get their drink or go and pick up the other ID. Don't feel guilty.

PurpleStorm Sat 12-Jan-13 21:56:39

YANBU.

They shouldn't have had a go at you for not selling them alcohol. It's annoying when you get caught without ID when the cashier thinks you look too young, but the cashier has to follow company policy and the law and get ID.

After all, it's your job on the line if you go ahead and sell them alcohol when they've failed to produce ID on request.

EmpressOfThePuddle Sat 12-Jan-13 22:04:08

I'll ask her, Notactually me grin . I thinik she got it through being in the police cadets.

rubydoobydoo Sat 12-Jan-13 22:05:59

I'm blessed with good genes from my mum's side of the family and have always looked younger - I LOVE getting ID'd (I'm 34) - last time it happened was on Friday when I picked up some lagers for DP on my way home from work, made even more flattering by the fact the girl who asked was quite a bit younger than me! smile

It was a bit annoying when I didn't actually have any photo ID and was refused a sale (I've only just learned to drive and didn't have a passport until a few years ago) - but after working in pubs/shops for a few years myself I always took it with good grace and just tried somewhere else!

freddiefrog Sat 12-Jan-13 22:06:48

it would not have been illegal for her to sell the alcohol to the guy with ID. The fact that the friend did not have ID is a company policy not he law.

The law is that it's illegal to sell alcohol to someone if you think they will pass it to someone underage. It's not unreasonable to assume that 2 young people buyin alcohol together will be sharing it

I hold a personal alcohol licence and when we did the course, it was drummed into us that if we suspected that people buying alcohol together would be sharing it, we had to ask for ID from all of them.

I got called a cunt once for refusing to sell alcohol at 7am on a Sunday morning

rubydoobydoo Sat 12-Jan-13 22:14:45

Yep it's illegal to sell alcohol to anyone you suspect may be buying it for an underage person.

It's also illegal to sell alcohol to a policeman in uniform, a known prostitute, or a drunk person! (Personally I've only refused underage and drunk people! grin )

PeacockFeathers Sat 12-Jan-13 22:19:41

I'd love to be young enough to go around testing shops to see if they ID me <looks in mirror at lines on forhead> sad

PurpleStorm Sat 12-Jan-13 22:20:58

Isn't it illegal to sell alcohol at 7am on a Sunday morning even if the customer is a pensioner who's got a passport and photo driving licence with them?

freddiefrog Sat 12-Jan-13 22:25:30

Yes, you can't sell alcohol before 10 am or after 10pm on a Sunday - or at least you couldn't when I last worked in our village shop a year ago

kim147 Sat 12-Jan-13 22:31:55

What annoys me is the "If you're lucky to look under 25, we'll ID you"

Lucky? All this focus on youth.

At what age would you refuse a family buying their weekly shop with a teenager including wine or alcohol?

16,17?

RedToothbrush Sat 12-Jan-13 22:32:52

Damn straight. Its patronising, rude and discriminatory. Unless you ID everyone.

Itsaboatjack Sat 12-Jan-13 22:37:36

The law is that it's illegal to sell alcohol to someone if you think they will pass it to someone underage. It's not unreasonable to assume that 2 young people buyin alcohol together will be sharing it

I would agree with you for an on sale, but for an off sale you can't be expected to know what they are goin to do once they leave the shop. With 2 friends together I would make the assumption that they are of similar age or at least within a couple of years, not one 7yrs younger ( I think she said the one was 24 did she?), imo it would be less than unlikely for her to be in trouble with the law in the circumstances stated. It's similar with being illegal to serve a drunk person, there is no legal definition of drunk, just a limit for driving, so it is a matter of opinion whether someone is drunk or not, apart from the very obvious fall down drunk, it would be hard to prove and so, in a first offence at least, not worth prosecuting.

Saying that though I appreciate it was company policy for her.

With regards though to those being refused in a supermarket with a trolley full of shopping and have their dc with them, it is ridiculous to refuse the sale.

Btw I also have a personal licence and have been a licensee for 18 yrs.

RibenaFiend Sat 12-Jan-13 22:47:01

YANBU At. All.
I'm 29 and challenged regularly (must be all the anti ageing potions!) and I just accept it.

I worked in a department store as a student and the grief we would regularly get for not selling youthful faced people gift wines, liqueur chocolates, kitchen knives was ridiculous! You were doing your job OP an obeying the law. The student was being incredibly rude and unreasonable and your DP is just being a fool.

MrsSchadenfreude Sat 12-Jan-13 22:52:26

If they are going to ask for ID, then surely the UK needs to issue ID cards? Not everyone has a passport or driving licence. (Yes, I am aware this is a whole can of worms.)

I was asked for ID last time I was back in UK (not sure why, as I am well into my 40s). I offered either a Polish driving licence or a French ID card. They ummed and ahhed for a while, and then decided I was allowed my one bottle of Chardonnay. hmm

Itsaboatjack Sat 12-Jan-13 23:19:01

Half the problem is many places, especially the big chains, are so fearful of prosecution that they have these blanket rules that are stricter than the law states, mainly because they don't trust their staff, or train them enough, to use their own common sense and interpret the law in a reasonable way.

I put my ID out on the counter if I'm buying alcohol - I carry my driving licence at all times anyway and it does no harm to have it out ready for if they ask for it.

Last year I got carded in Homebase while buying a saw. A saw! I was 29 and 6 months' pregnant grin

wannabedreams Sat 12-Jan-13 23:41:22

YANBU, I work in retail and regularly make the person I am serving and everyone with that person show me ID (if it is enough drink / cigs for more than one possibly not if It was one can and ten cigs).

This is the law.

Alisvolatpropiis Sat 12-Jan-13 23:56:27

You did the right thing. They were little shits. Your DP is being very unreasonable. He'd be happy for you to lose your job would he? Pay the on the spot fine for you? No,no he wouldn't.

Startail Sun 13-Jan-13 01:16:01

In all honesty why shouldn't 16 and 17 drink responsibly in a pub.

All enforcing 18 does is make every child think the law is an arse and encourage them to drink way too much off licence booze in the park.

There they learn to smoke and take drugs too.

By the time I went to Uni at 18 booze wasn't novel, I done all that in my home village amongst friends.

The state some of the students from London (18 enforced and high prices) got in at freshers was truly frightening.

soontobeburns Sun 13-Jan-13 01:35:08

YANBU but I do think does it matter if the person with is underage? Its only illgeal to buy alcohol under 18 not drink it. In fact you can drink from age 5 in your own home.

I cannot remember the last time I was id'd I keep hoping I will be and I just turned 23

soontobeburns Sun 13-Jan-13 01:36:56

Last example was meant more in a if a mother was out with her teenager.

LadyBeagleEyes Sun 13-Jan-13 01:50:00

I went to pubs at 15, back in the 70's.
I'm still here. And ds at 17 goes to parties and I'll buy him a bottle of vodka or Jack Daniels to take along.
He had his crowning moment and right of passage at 15 when he threw up, he knows he'll never ever do that again.
If you educate your kids about alcohol, then they will learn how to be sensible with it, banning it and making it into a big issue will just make them want to try it.
I'm happy to go along with the 18 year old law, it means I can control what alcohol my ds can drink, but FFS 25?
It's ridiculous and supermarkets are just trying to save their own arses.
And as I said above to those that said that everybody should have an ID?
No way, I refuse to even contemplate it.

Loveweekends10 Sun 13-Jan-13 05:58:08

I witnessed a similar event in Morrisons. A really stuck up uni student arguing the toss with the woman serving her. She even turned round to me and asked me to buy her wine.
I said ' you are beginning to look like a desperate Pratt now love'. She shut up.

ravenAK Sun 13-Jan-13 07:16:52

I agree with everyone else that OP WNBU - if the customer didn't have acceptable ID, it's neither here nor there if his friend doesn't.

Having said that, I don't agree with 'Challenge 25' - I can assure you it's not stopping my teenage students from laying their hands on booze, & my hackles involuntarily bristle at the idea of people being asked to prove they're 25 in order to demonstrate that they are over 18.

I wouldn't be able to satisfy the requirement - I don't drive & I don't carry my passport around with me, so if Sainsbury's (or whoever) did take it into their heads that I was under 25 (I'm 42 & look it), they'd be re-shelving my entire shop whilst I took my money elsewhere.

I also think it's unreasonable that staff are being expected to ID someone other than the person buying the alcohol. If you are 18+, & legally buying booze, it should be entirely your lookout if you share it with someone younger once you've left the shop.

It's completely unfair to put the onus on shop staff - unless the person with the ID is loudly shouting 'WHAT FLAVOUR WKD DO YOU WANT, THEN?' at their ID-less companion, I suppose. The requirement for the checkout operator should be 'Were there any clear cut indications that the shopper was buying this for someone underage?' & not 'Did your spidey sense suggest to you that the shopper might be planning to share this with another party who is not actually involved in the transaction?'

I can't see how this policy serves any useful purpose. The customer & his companion will have grumped off to another store, & the person who couldn't 'prove they were 25 in order for someone else to do something which is legal at 18' will have stayed outside the shop next time.

So - no innocent 17 year olds -if there ever was one in this scenario, which is doubtful - protected from the demon drink, a pointless row & lost custom.

But again, & with years of bartending under my belt, the OP wasn't being unreasonable in enforcing this nonsensical policy - it's her job. & given neither of them actually had acceptable ID, the fact that the companion had none is really moot...

DrRanj Sun 13-Jan-13 07:21:58

They probably were underage if they got so arsey about it. I went to sainsburys the other day to get some wine and was asked for ID (I'm 30) but happened not to have any on me. I just accepted that I just had to suck it up and go out later or some where else to get it once I had it on me.

If these two were genuinely over 18 all they had to do was go somewhere else and send him in on his own, no buggy really.

Yanbu.

sausagesandwich34 Sun 13-Jan-13 08:39:33

You don't have to prove you are 25!
Challenge 25 was introduced to protect the people selling alcohol from prosecution -it used to be 21 but there were still too many under aged sales

CheungFun Sun 13-Jan-13 08:48:26

I think you were not being unreasonable OP; anyway if they are so up on the rules of buying alcohol, perhaps they should have brought their passports or drivers licenses!

It's nice that your supervisor is on your side, and I'm 99.9% sure there won't be a complaint!

I think your DP is in the wrong to tell you that you've spoilt their evening hmm

andadietcoke Sun 13-Jan-13 08:57:23

YANBU.

I fell foul of the 'everyone has to have ID rule'. Was with brother and his gf who are both 18 but probably don't look it. They got ID'd, and had ID. I was with them, but didn't as had just come out with my debit card. I'm 31. I definitely look 25. No sale, because apparently once they've asked for it, they can't sell it if no ID is supplied. This was Tesco, so glad to see that they've got a bit more sensible about it. Was furious because we had to go home to find my passport and then go back.

Challenge 25 isn't about proving you are over 25 to buy alcohol. It's about being challenged for ID to prove you are over 18 if you don't look over 25. Reason for that is because it is extremely difficult for people to guess if someone is over or under 18.

EG, DD is 12, but could very easily pass for 15 becuase of her height.

As long as you can prove you are over 18 you can buy the alcohol.

Callyfornication Sun 13-Jan-13 11:41:05

My friend (22) and his dad recently tried to buy a bottle of wine at Tesco, and they weren't sold it because my friend didn't have ID... Another friend's mother wasn't sold beer with her weekly shop because she had her 13yo daughter with her... That is stupid imo

BelleoftheFall Sun 13-Jan-13 12:21:16

Stuff 'em. If they had any brains they would be have left and gone somewhere else, and that time the one without ID could have stayed outside or wandered around the shops while the other one got the alcohol. Very simple. You didn't ruin their night at all, it was just someone getting up on their high horse and shitting all over someone who was just trying to do their jobs. The challenge 25 thing is everywhere and it's been well advertised. It's annoying but it's just the way it is now. I remember seeing people next to signs at the checkout explaining it and basically saying "Please don't give abuse if I won't sell you alcohol". It's pretty sad that that's necessary.

PeacockFeathers Sun 13-Jan-13 12:23:22

Would any of you get arsey with someone who is just doing their job though? It is my company's policy to challenge 25. If I don't comply with this, I don't have a job and in the worse case scenario could be fined for providing alcohol to someone under 18.

I quite like being able to pay the bills.

It's about looking at the dynamic of a group. A teenager shopping with mum has probably been dragged there/stopped off on their way back from somewhere. Two young people together, wel why would another be there buying alcohol if they weren't going to be spending the evening together? Does that make sense...? I'm not sure I'm articulating myself properly.

I've also had granny and teenager in. Granny told me she had been ill and her GDD was helping her pack. Teenager was (stroppily) helping. I had no reason to suspect the bottle of Sherry in the shopping was for the teenager!

BelleoftheFall Sun 13-Jan-13 12:31:26

"Would any of you get arsey with someone who is just doing their job though?"

This is just the way some people are. They speak in shocking fashion to someone because they're in a uniform or are working when they would never in a million years speak in the way that they do to a friend or colleague or even a stranger. But because they're a customer they think that this gives them some sort of right to act in this way, because they know no one can call them out on it. It's like they don't even look at you as an individual with any feelings. It's horrible.

rainbow2000 Sun 13-Jan-13 12:35:18

I worked in Tesco and the reason the over 25 thing was brought in was its easier for 15.16 year olds to look 18.Not so easy to look 25.
Ive refused sales before as i seen younger kids pass the money right beside me for drink.

I know someone who was sacked on the spot for selling drink underage.
I do think in some cases its getting stupid being refused drink cause you have your kids wiht you.

RedToothbrush Sun 13-Jan-13 12:47:35

PeacockFeathers Sun 13-Jan-13 12:23:22
Would any of you get arsey with someone who is just doing their job though? It is my company's policy to challenge 25. If I don't comply with this, I don't have a job and in the worse case scenario could be fined for providing alcohol to someone under 18.

Actually it would depend on HOW the person asking me challenged me.

It would also depend on whether I was holding my car keys, had my wedding ring on, whether I had a trolley load of shopping with me and whether I was paying by credit card or not.

It would depend on who I was being accompanied by.

And thats without looking AT me and my face/hands.

I do think common sense needs to also be applied. I do think some people who work at tills are quite clearly being overly cautious and a few lacking brain cells.

And like I say, they tend to pick on certain groups rather than others. A petite woman of 34 is more likely to be challenged than a 6'2" 28 year old for example.

The policy is not being applied fairly and some cashiers are downright rude about how they do it too.

jessjessjess Sun 13-Jan-13 12:50:27

Yanbu! If it was going to ruin their night they should have brought ID.

I used to work in a shop that sold cigarette and discovered that few people realise it's your neck on the line if you serve someone underage.

GinOnTwoWheels Sun 13-Jan-13 12:55:41

Any adult shopping for a family is likely to have DCs at home. Shock, horror, they may also allow them to drink modest amounts of alcohol if teenagers (which is legal).

If said adult is on their own, they will be served without question, but if they have their teenagers with them, they may be refused, which makes no sense at all. Should they leave their DCs at home/in the car/outside the shop to avoid such hassle.

I am happy that teenagers under 18 are not supplied with alcohol to allow them to become paryletic in the bus shelter, but don't see why this should be turned into policies that stop honest adults buying the odd bottle of wine with their shopping.

My sister (age 35/36) was shopping with her 18 YO DD. Sister was asked for ID, but DD was not 'because she had visible tattoos and piercings some of which she got when she was 16/17, so had to be over 18.

I too have been asked for ID in my 30s and don't always carry any. I once left a large amount of shopping with them, unpaid for, because they were happy I was over 18, but would not sell me alcohol because they didn't believe I was over 25 angry.

The way the large stores implement the policy makes no sense at all.

PigletJohn Sun 13-Jan-13 13:30:38

I am a DPS and am perfectly content that most over-18's carry ID and don't mind being asked to show it. The ones who say they left it at home and have never been so insulted and its ridiculous to ask and I'm completely wrong...

are under age.

redexpat Sun 13-Jan-13 13:42:03

Yes I probably would get arsey. I don't understand why people want to look younger than they are. I want to look my age. I'm quite proud of everything I've achieved. I'm genuinley insulted when people don't think I look my age, and try and stop me from doing something which is entirely legal. I wouldn't take it out on you though, but I'd definitley be speaking to the supervisor. It's most annoying when it is somewhere yo have been before and it was never a problem, so you don't think to bring ID.

ravenAK Sun 13-Jan-13 15:20:44

Also, most parents of teenagers amongst my friends do cheerfully buy their dc the odd beer or alcopop, on the grounds that it's better than them sinking a litre of rough cider & a few voddies on a park bench with their mates.

So it's not a rule that works, if the object is to stop underage drinking; it's purely an arse covering exercise.

I'm just a bit hmm about the logic of expecting the checkout assistant to read my mind, tbh. If I buy alcohol & subsequently supply it to some random unrelated underage person, I should be the one in trouble, not the poor sod whose psychic powers didn't extend as far as predicting what I had in mind for it.

Leaving aside the fact that if I did intend to pour my 5 year old a beer as soon as we'd put the shopping away, that might not be fabulous parenting but, erm, is actually perfectly legal...

Itsaboatjack Sun 13-Jan-13 17:45:20

*I am a DPS and am perfectly content that most over-18's carry ID and don't mind being asked to show it. The ones who say they left it at home and have never been so insulted and its ridiculous to ask and I'm completely wrong...

are under age.*

The only time I've regularly carried ID was when I was underage and it was fake. I'm also a DPS, maybe I assume that others use the same amount of common sense that I do when doing my job.

The last time I was asked for ID was when I was nearly 30, I was going into a bar with my dh and the doorman asked us. Our response was to laugh and ask him if he wanted us to step into the light so he could see my wrinkles and dh's grey hairs. He laughed at that and let us in. He could have been a jobsworth over it, but his years of experience and common sense told him that we were fine to go in.

It is a baffilingly ridiculous policy to refuse sale when people have their dc with them. What next, if you shop on-line and order alcohol will they refuse to deliver it if children are in the house?

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