Regarding my exTwunts day out with PFB

(136 Posts)

DD is 17 weeks, tommorow i have allowed him to have DD alone for the first time.
(There is a hug backs tory but this i can assure you is rather generous) He is not competent with DD at all. I had agrreed to drive 1.5 hours to meet him, so he could take her to her GPs a further hour away.
He is NOT competent with DD at all, he will no tmake comtact arrangements and i am currently building up eveidence for legal arrangements to be make (that is a hwole other thread). He does not see or contact about DD on a regular basis, very hit and miss. So as you can see i am being very accomdating.
So here is where he think IAMBU, i do not think i am.
He has now changed the plans. He wants to take her from me, to her GP (1 hour) to his sister (40 mins) back to his parents (40 mins) back to me (1 hour).
ALL IN FOUR HOURS. Excluding the 1.5 hours each way i am doing.
I feel this is awful for my Dd's, development, relationship with her father, routine and not to mention how long she will be in a car seat.

I have explained this, but IAMBU. He wants to know if he can have her longer and drop her the whole way back to me, but this doesnt solve the issue besides i feel 4 hours is long enough for a first visit. Also, i have never every left her longer with anyone. Now im being pushed for him to have her overnight tonight by him.
I am not happy, would you be happy with this?
I have offered him ways around this eg inviting all the family down to my area. Or why cant his isster go to her parents? I have said he could have her here today.
I just to not want her in a car that long.
I Willa ccept a flaming if i IAMBU

Story for mistakes im quite anxious and upset. Rather fretting

DeepRedBetty Sat 12-Jan-13 12:05:30

No flaming from me, it's a very long time in carseats if there's no other adult in car.

thegreylady Sat 12-Jan-13 12:10:38

YANBU at all and if he really cares about your dd he will see that.

YANBU! If I was in your position he would be coming to me, to spend an hour with DC and that would be it. I would not want such a young child in a car for that long, or away from me tbh

She is too young for overnights she is still a tiny baby!!

DeepRedBetty Sat 12-Jan-13 12:14:04

Especially if he hasn't got the faintest clue what to do with babies.

LadyWidmerpool Sat 12-Jan-13 12:14:21

How much time has he spent in a car with a screaming baby? Does he know it's one of the circles of hell? I don't think it would necessarily do her any harm to try once but I would certainly not agree to change the arrangement to include an overnight stay at this late stage. That would be a no no for me.

MrsMcEnroe Sat 12-Jan-13 12:16:49

YANBU, you are doing what's right for your daughter, stick to your guns

Thank you.
Of course I've got the speech about me denying him a relationship with his daughter and his family but I just feel my DDs welfare comes first.
When I explained the dangers of car seats for so long I got 'she will get over it' very immature.
It just makes me feel very anxious and fret, he will not change the plans so I do not know what to do.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Sat 12-Jan-13 12:18:24

I'd put my foot down and say no, shes only 17 weeks, i wouldnt want my baby being so far away from me for soon long, i'd never be able to relax.

pod3030 Sat 12-Jan-13 12:23:45

you are the primary carer, you get to call the shots. follow your gut instincts, they will serve you well. i wouldn't be away from such a little baby for so long, he may not change the plans, but YOU can.

SavoyCabbage Sat 12-Jan-13 12:23:52

I wouldn't want to do it either. He's never going to get all of that done in 4 hours.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 12-Jan-13 12:28:14

Can't he/his parents/his sister come to yours? It's an awful lot of sitting in a car seat for a wee one (and that's just your bit!)

NatashaBee Sat 12-Jan-13 12:28:22

YANBU. Can you get some backup from your midwife on the risks of her being in a car seat for too long?

RedHelenB Sat 12-Jan-13 12:34:47

Let it go - either she will scream & he will then have to adapt plans OR she will sleep during it. One day of this is not a big deal & hopefully the realities will make him more amenable to listening to your opinion on future occasions!

Oh & you are not "allowing " him anything - you are both parents.

CecilyP Sat 12-Jan-13 12:38:21

I think you were generous in the first place in volunteering to drive DD fof 1.5 hours and him taking her to his parents involving another hour - already a 5 hour round trip for a tiny baby. If you add in the extra 40 minutes each way to his sister, that is nearly 6.5 hours of her sitting in the car seat. And the last bit is completely unecessary - why can't his sister go to the parents, if she wants to see the baby? If you add some time for them to actually spend with the baby, that is going to be a lot more than 4 hours and it is a very long day for her.

You are definitely not NBU but I am not sure what to suggest. If he cannot stick to the original plan, I would definitely say no.

Fairylea Sat 12-Jan-13 12:43:44

I think you have two ways of looking at this really.... either he is responsible enough to have dd or he isn't.

If he hasn't spent enough time with her to know what to do to care for her then he can't have her, simple as that. Tell him noand he will have to apply through the courts or a solicitor to gain contact preferably at a contact centre .

However if he is reasonable and able to care for her then unfortunately what he does on his time with her is up to him. I agree with you about the driving but to behhonest he didn't even have to tell you the same way you don't have to tell him what you do with dd.

So I think you need to decide whether you trust him to look after her or not and go from there.

Kiriwawa Sat 12-Jan-13 12:43:55

No way would I allow my 17 week in a car seat for that length of time. RedHelen - yes the baby is both of theirs but if one parent is putting their child at risk, the other has to be responsible and protect the child.

Fakebook Sat 12-Jan-13 12:49:43

I'd be happy to have a few hours to myself to sleep and pamper myself tbh. I know he's your ex, but try to see beyond your hate for him. If my DH had taken our 17 week old out alone for half a day or more at that age, I would have been over the moon. He is her father. He will deal with her how he deems appropriate. Unless he has a history of abuse or something, I'd let her go. YABU.

But i am hardly going to be relaxing?
I offered to drive 1.5 hours so him and her GP get more time with her.

No I don't trust him to look after her. Her welfare means nothing, there is a complete disregard for her care.
I feel rather than spending time with DD it has been turned into a 'showboating' exercise.
It's unfair on DD I feel. I have offered several alternatives.
Now he will not discuss with me I have been deemed a selfish cow and have gone back on my word.
I haven't said he can't have her but how can I make arrangements when he will not cooperate.
I now feel very stuck, and very alone and unreasonable for just caring and being a mother.

If he is trying to move the goalposts I would cancel the visit. Can he not drive GPs to you and spend time with your DD at your house?

exit I have offered this too as I won't actually be home for those three hours as I am on a course for those four hours in London.
Hence me offering my house as they would get her even longer.
I have just had a text saying I will be at X at X time. End of story.
Now I'm scared :-(

Fairylea Sat 12-Jan-13 13:02:39

Aside from the car issue, what examples can you give of him not caring for her ?

I think (as seen on here) the car seat one is contentious as although it's a lot of time it IS broken up so not continuous and the excitement of the visits inbetween might actually mean she sleeps a lot. Plus it is not an everyday thing.

However, if it was me I would be extremely unhappy about my dc being in a car seat that long.

If you have valid concerns about his parenting then say no and ask him to either have contact at your house or a neutral place with you so he can gain confidence and parental skills or say he must apply via solicitor if it is bordering on neglectful.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Sat 12-Jan-13 13:03:25

Make Dont let him make you feel bed for being worried, we all would be and if hes not a good dad then cancel plans and insisted on contact centre, until hes a better dad. Your her mother, who wants to protect her, your not being unreasonable.

If you thought he was a good dad, then you would have to bit the bullet. But since he isnt then, its a big no.

He had her once as a newborn, around six weeks.
I came home all the bottles I left weren't touched. Her nappy was full. She was in one room in a travel cot him in another both doors shut.
The house was freezing. She had just a vest on and thin blanket.
He didn't see a problem with that as I would be home soon. He didn't bother changing her as he didn't see the point even though she had a change of clothes.
I'm getting upset now as he is meant to be getting her from where my course is.

Oh poor you Make - I am sorry but based on his behaviour last time he had her I would not be letting him have her again. Is there someone you can leave her with whilst you do your course?

She is still only 17 weeks you say?

CecilyP Sat 12-Jan-13 13:14:36

From what I have gathered, the car journey won't be very broken up at all, if all that visiting is fitted in to 4 hours. In fact there is only 40 minutes of non-travel time in those 4 hours and the one compromise (and the thing that could easily be dispensed with) is the visit to the sister. The fact that he is even considering this extra visit, would make him seem not too concerned with the baby's welfare.

Thank you everyone.
Yes she's 17 weeks and her routine is haywire as it is at the minute.
My parents would really love to have her for the day smile

DontmindifIdo Sat 12-Jan-13 13:26:38

cancel visit - at that age, she's going to get nothing from it, she's going to be sat in a car and hten looked after (hopefully)by grandparents, not by your exp.

Get your parents to look after her this time, then in the future, give him access at your house again (you go out) if he can prove he can actually manage to look after her (basically, fed, warm, clean - actually interacting seems a bit much for him!) then you can increase to him going elsewhere with her. She's not a toy to be shown off.

dont you have just repeated the line in my head. She is not a doll

Fakebook- I don't have hate for him

GregBishopsBottomBitch Sat 12-Jan-13 13:30:19

Make Ask your parents to have her, as they'd look after her, i'd rather her be safe than travelling in the car for 4 hours probably in the same nappy, she'd get just awful nappy rash after.

3littlefrogs Sat 12-Jan-13 13:32:27

He had her once as a newborn, around six weeks.
I came home all the bottles I left weren't touched. Her nappy was full. She was in one room in a travel cot him in another both doors shut.
The house was freezing. She had just a vest on and thin blanket.
He didn't see a problem with that as I would be home soon. He didn't bother changing her as he didn't see the point even though she had a change of clothes

I would be reporting this to HV/Social Services asap.

He should only have supervised contact.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 12-Jan-13 13:33:53

If your parents will take her, let your parents look after him. Tell your ex that future visits will be under your supervision until you are happy he can care for her adequately.

financialwizard Sat 12-Jan-13 13:37:52

I was going to agree with Red and Fakebook until your post about his last visit.

On this occasion I would definitely be saying 'no' and asking your parents to look after your baby. I wouldn't be allowing any unsupervised visits until he had mastered bottle feeds and nappy changes too. It is very possible he is terrified of hurting the baby and needs a kick and some advice too.

DeepRedBetty Sat 12-Jan-13 13:43:54

Thought financialwizard was referring to me until I saw RedHelenB's post!

Anniegetyourgun Sat 12-Jan-13 13:48:13

Terrified of hurting the baby - so he left her shut in another room? hmm

He makes me feel like I am making it up but I feel I have let so much go.

So what do I do in regards to the text he just sent saying he will be picking her up from where we agreed at X time

GregBishopsBottomBitch Sat 12-Jan-13 13:51:39

Exactly, i never fully shut the doors when my DD was a baby, i needed to able to hear her.

This man just apparently cant be bothered.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Sat 12-Jan-13 13:53:11

Make Say no, you arent happy with arrangements nor his ability to look after her, he needs to prove himself.

I would cancel the visit. If you can, bypass your ex and contact his parents directly inviting them to visit DD at your house on another day. If they are reasonable people, they will understand your concerns that your DD would simply be spending all day in a car seat. If they are as twunty as their son and start complaining, remember that they have NO RIGHTS AT ALL.

And given how the contact went when she was 6 weeks, I'd want all contact supervised. Her needs come first.

Bobyan Sat 12-Jan-13 13:56:09

Can you get him to visit the baby at your parents? At least then your offering contact...

3littlefrogs Sat 12-Jan-13 13:57:58

I would just say that leaving a 17 week old baby in a car seat for over 4 hours at a time is dangerous to their health because it can restrict their breathing.

Added to this, his neglect of her the last time he had her confirms that he does not have her wellfare at heart.

She will be looked after at your parents home and he is welcome to visit to spend some quality time with her there.

I know it is difficult, but you cannot let him bully you into putting your child at risk.

In future communicate by email so that you have a record. Summarise, in writing, all the reasonable suggestions you have made to facilitate contact.

I think you will have to get legal/social services advice.

There is a duty social worker available over the weekend.

lemonstartree Sat 12-Jan-13 13:59:33

just one thing - for her 'development' ??? chill down !

BUT you are both her parents and she has a right to a relationship with him. He does need to make an effort though...he wont learn how to deal with her unless he gets the chance will he ?

Glimmerberry Sat 12-Jan-13 14:01:08

I can understand, the "he's her father" POV but would you let any other stranger with no experience of children (let alone your child) look after your child for this period of time? Think of everything we do to make sure childminders/nurseries are appropriately qualified and equipped.

Can you email him (to start a record of your communication on this, in case things get ugly) saying something along the lines of:

"I'd like you to have a relationship with DD, but one that works in the longterm and puts her welfare first. The visit you've suggested perhaps isn't the best start for this since it will involve DD spending a lot of time in a carseat (there is a recommended limit of ? hours due to the pressure placed on an infant's developing spine). Also she currently needs to be fed regularly and have frequent nappy changes which would be difficult with the day you've planned.

Instead I'd like to suggest starting your contact with DD at my home, where she has everything she needs and is familiar with her surroundings. You can visit and care for her needs with me present initially and then for a few hours while I am out, and we can increase this time if all goes well before you start taking her for short trips out, working up to longer trips and overnight visits as you've suggested. Hope this seems reasonable to you, let's put some dates on the calender".

And bear in mind it's difficult to know what meeting a baby's needs and "all going well" actually means unless you've had a child before or been there from day one. Play fair and be clear about what is needed -maybe sketch out a rough timetable including the habits she is in for naps etc. Try not to set him up to fail, which I kind of think allowing him a miserable car journey with a screaming unhappy child might be.

CecilyP Sat 12-Jan-13 14:04:13

'development' does sound a bit pompous but in OP's place, I would be concerned about her actul welfare.

Annianni Sat 12-Jan-13 14:04:14

No way would I leave my baby with someone like that.

You wouldn't be able to concentrate on your course while he had her.

Leave her with your parents and tell him he needs to come to you for supervised visits only.

"So what do I do in regards to the text he just sent saying he will be picking her up from where we agreed at X time"
Respond by text, so that you have a record of your response. I would put something along the lines of

"We did not agree on the additional 80 minutes round trip to your sister's, meaning DD would spend 3 hours 20mins of the agreed 4 hours travelling and only 40 minutes spent visiting. I think it best for DD that this visit be cancelled and we rearrange."

This makes it clear that he has changed the arrangement and why you are not agreeing to it. And by offering to rearrange, you come across as the reasonable one.

"She was in one room in a travel cot him in another both doors shut."
And he wants to spend over three hours in a car with her? I really don't see that working.

Glimmer- I have done all that including a letter he refused to co operate.
From a legal point of view I have two options.
1, pay for a solicitor myself which I cannot afford. To help with a court order. I don't qualify for legal aid.

2, The harsh way. Stop all contact and force him to take me to court.

I have all diarised evidence and photographic text messages.

His parents are not reasonable and believe their son does no wrong, and I/My family ABU shock

Also I meant development in physical development, such as her spine.
I apologise for not being clear

CecilyP Sat 12-Jan-13 14:13:29

I was going to ask about the parents, as it is understandable that they would want to see their grandchild - but they obviously don't want to see her for too long if she is to be taken away to visit their daughter after 20 minutes or so. If they are perfectly happy with this extra trip, then they don't seem too concerned about their DGD's welfare either.

It just sounds like your baby is being treated like a new toy to be shown off to all and sundry.

MrsTomHardy Sat 12-Jan-13 14:17:09

No real advice apart from I wouldn't go ahead with the visit
I would say he can come and visit her from your place and take her out and about locally. She's still so little...good luck

It's very much when they do see her it's a whole family affair, it's like Christmas.
But as soon as she is sick or pooed I am given her back.
They invite me up there, I invite them down here but I end up going there for 'the family'
It's very much ' look at my GC'
I can't even escape to the nearest town when I'm there I get collared.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Sat 12-Jan-13 14:19:08

My friend DB has only just been allowed to take his DS out without the mother and hes over a year old, and thats what the courts allowed.

That's very interesting thank you.

With the additional info on his family, I'd continue to invite them (especially since it seems they do not actually accept the invites but expect you to do all the travelling), but regretfully decline their invites as the travelling is too much for DD's soft bones at present. Nobody can twist that into refusing them contact.

Keep documenting everything, and yes, let him take you to court. He can finance it.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 12-Jan-13 14:41:41

I have a client whose ex is incompetent with children because he's stupid. ( I'm not meaning offensive stupid I'm meaning has no concept of safety or how to look after baby but has no SN's and point blank refuses support or advice/ help because he's certain he does not need it )

SS are supporting the mother by basiclly making it clear that should she allow him any contact with the child whilst the child is unable to articulate problems the child will be placed on the moden equivalent of the at risk register. Her social worker even attended court with her.

Fwiw I don't know anybody who has ever been ordered to send a baby under 12/18 months on overnights unless there were issues with there own parenting.

DeepRedBetty Sat 12-Jan-13 15:25:06

YY to all the posters who suggest whatever plans are made should be in some sort of writing.

I've got absolutely everything in writing.
I'm just terrified if he turns up tomo and I'm there without her

3littlefrogs Sat 12-Jan-13 15:38:37

Pack up everything you need for the next few days, including whatever you need for your course.
Go to your parents.
Leave DD with them.
Go to your course from there.

3littlefrogs Sat 12-Jan-13 15:40:13

Inform him that he is welcome to have supervised contact at your parents' home.

Does he have parental responsibility?

DeepRedBetty Sat 12-Jan-13 15:41:14

Sorry you're not entitled to legal aid. Have you posted in Legal?

I wouldn't know what to post in legal if I'm honest.i just know the best way forward is a court order.'yes he does have PR which makes is hard as he misunderstands the definition of it

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 12-Jan-13 16:21:19

So do nothing and let him take you to court, it do all comunication via email so you can show you are being reasonable and he is doing the banging on about his rights thing that lots of them do.

If he is there and you are not then you are at least an our and a half away from him so he cannot hurt you.

Just email saying he has changed the arrangements so it no longer works for you the poster above who composed a message for you has exactly the right wording. Then don't show.

Rearrange if he contacts you but do not chase him at all in anyway no texts no phone calls no nothing. Only contact him in reply to him requesting contact and be as reasonable as you can whilst making it clear what is and is not in dd's interests.

The onus is then on him to take you to court,they are soon removing all legal aid in child contact cases unless domestic violence is an issue so as long as you don't put the idea in his head and it takes him a few months to decide he can be bothered to try and take you to court and you are reasonable he's not going to have much luck.

Its not your job to chase him its not your job to encourage him nor is it your job to have to pacify him. Those things are all his responsibility

Thank you my problem is he is meant to be getting her from where my course is

Glimmerberry Sat 12-Jan-13 16:40:06

Email and just be clear it isn't happening. If you've suggested an alternative way forward, that is sensible interms of her welfare and allowing him access, I'd think there's little he can do.

LeftyLucy Sat 12-Jan-13 16:57:19

I would be very cautious about allowing this, particularly if you anticipate court orders in future. In my experience the court see the fact that you have given this type of access in the past as a reason to continue something along the same lines. It doesn't matter that you were browbeaten into it or that it will be a disaster. Courts are so eager to give fathers their 'rights' even if they are selfish arses who treat their children as 'property'.

I would say no to this if you possibly can.

You have my sympathy.

TalkativeJim Sat 12-Jan-13 17:12:45

Text back - visit will now not go ahead due to further concerns for DD's welfare after your comments this morning.

Write up everything that happened today:
-his bullying to change plans once visit had been agreed,
-the unsuitable nature of the changes he wanted- far too long in carseat etc, no quality time spent with baby,
-his inappropriate uncaring attitude once you pointed out that she shouldn't be in a seat that long -'she will get over it'- WTF?!?
-his further bullying once you decided there were concerns -he will be there tmrw no discussion' etc.

Add this to the rest of your dossier on how this nasty idiot is demonstrating that he is neither willing nor able to undertake appropriate loving care of a baby.

Call SS for advice-maybe speak to your HV first?
-and then depending on what they say, suspend contact and tell him to take you to court, because if his approach is going to be to bully you, then that means you CAN'T give him access, because he won't listen to your advice and given his proven incapability, that means your DD could be endangered by him.

TheProvincialLady Sat 12-Jan-13 17:52:07

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I also think that you should not drive your DD to contact 1.5h away, as it will set precedents that you may be expected to keep up if it goes to court.

Supervised contact in your own home is the only possible solution here for a while, until he has learned to take care of his daughter and put her needs first. Dont take her to visit his family and don't let him, until such time as he can and will take proper care of her. She will not be missing out on bonding etc at this age.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 12-Jan-13 18:12:07

As long as you inform him that she will not be made available if he still turns up and creates a scene he then gift wraps a good reason for you to use in court.

PLEASE help me.
He has just woken me up with a text saying I will be in X at Xam to get DD.
That's where I will be for my course.
This is my first real chance to stand up to him.
I need to reply before he sets off.confused

Just bumping this for you so someone knowledgeable can help, but did you email or text him as talkativejim suggested? What have you told him about today?

I did. He's just texting abuse now after I'm saying what Jim said.
I'm phycotic and talking shit and she best be there.

I'm no expert on these matters at all but I would respond along the lines of "I will not tolerate abuse from you and I will not allow my child to be in the care of someone who is clearly angry and says these things. Do not come. You will not be taking her". Find out what kind of support the police can give you if you feel he will turn up and make a scene. Are there any people around who can stick by you just in case he turns up? Just think now about how you can ensure you are both safe.

And keep copies or photos of all these text messages. Good luck.

mrsscoob Sun 13-Jan-13 08:09:25

He is trying to bully you. Don't be scared. If he does turn up, what can he do? If he does and shouts at you or tries to intimidate you that will only strengthen your case.

Believe in yourself, you are doing the right thing and protecting your daughter, just keep telling yourself that.

will there be security at the training course ie is it in a hotel or similiar

will he have to go to a reception area to ask for you?

MyCannyBairn Sun 13-Jan-13 08:12:16

I have no advice, just offering a hand squeeze.

Thank you. I think he will have to come to reception.
My father has offered to come with me but I'd like to think he is just trying to frighten me.
He says he would take her abs take her for longer than planned.
I have emailed back saying exactly that about the abuse and anger.
I had arranged to to her off half and hour before my course so she could have a feed, so hopefully he may go by the time I get there hmm
How has it come to this?
Where us the man I thought I'd have a beautiful family and life with? Never existed

ThereGoesTheYear Sun 13-Jan-13 08:22:58

Don't be bullied into bringing your DD to him. It lets him know that if he wants his own way about anything he just has to get increasingly unpleasant towards you.
Let him know clearly that you will NOT change your mind about this, to try to avoid him showing up. .
Can you get to your course early so you don't bump into him if he does show up? Can you arrive with/meet others so you're not alone?
Print out the emails you sent him to say that the arrangements were changed by him so the visit is off. Be prepared to call the

mrsscoob Sun 13-Jan-13 08:23:14

Keep calm and don't get drawn into any arguments with him. Just keep repeating that she is too young to undertake such a journey but that you are not trying to stop him seeing her and that he can see her anytime he wants at your house. He hasn't got a leg to stand in and he knows it, his only hope now is to bully you into getting his own way, don't let him. Good luck today and stay strong.

ThereGoesTheYear Sun 13-Jan-13 08:24:45

Posted too soon...
Be prepared to call the police if he shows up at your course shouting or threatening. If you have the printouts to hand you can prove that he shouldn't even be there.

Thank you for all the advice and calming me down

Grapesoda Sun 13-Jan-13 08:28:04

Stay cool.
You don't have to let her go. In fact, you have a. Responsibility to keep here safe and from what you have said about his plans, her welfare is not I his paramount Concern.
You can call women's aid for legal advice. If he is abusive you should call the police. How far are your parents? Can they come to support you right now?
If you are at a hotel you can ask the desk / reception to not let him in to you. Yes, children have a right to see their father but the paramount concn is thesafety an welfare of the child. If you think this is jeapordised by today's plans you havea. Esponsibility and the right to to let her go with him today.
Worry about court later.
Good luck.

I am at my parents not dropping DD off with my mum.
Dad has offered to come with me but if I haven't got DD with me then it should be okay but he's just text again saying I'm leaving in a bit

Grapesoda Sun 13-Jan-13 08:41:00

Just be clear with him. It's great that your dad will be there. Thinking of you.

Grapesoda Sun 13-Jan-13 08:41:33

Defo have dad with you.

Sheldonshere Sun 13-Jan-13 08:42:37

Do you think he'll take you to court for contact?

Thanks everyone.
Even if I gave in now I used to I'd be terrified he wouldn't bring her back.
The legal aid I have had I'd either keep all my documented evidence and get a court order myself or make him fight for a CO.
He really seems to have to definition of PR wrong

mrsscoob Sun 13-Jan-13 08:56:20

Good luck. Let us know later if he showed up or not.

CecilyP Sun 13-Jan-13 10:13:56

Honestly, I would accept your dad's kind offer and let him come with you. Can you also go a bit early so you are already in the training room by the time you originally said you would meet your ex?

coronalover Sun 13-Jan-13 10:37:08

So sorry you're in this situation. No advice to give but sending you virtual hugs!


He's turned up. I'm in the building and can see from the window my phone is going non stop. And my heart.
I know I've done the right thing.
Just so glad DD is safe with my parents

Dubjackeen Sun 13-Jan-13 11:18:56

You poor thing. I have no advice, just sending you my support. Hope everything works out well.

It's okay he can't get to me And my daughter is safe with her family.
It's just very very scary that it has come to this.
This isn't the person I knew.
Maybe this will push it to court

InNeatCognac Sun 13-Jan-13 11:22:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mummytotwins Sun 13-Jan-13 11:23:06

You poor thing, what a nasty piece of work he is, im glad you have your parents to help you x

PeacockFeathers Sun 13-Jan-13 11:24:16

He sounds crazy. There's no way I would let my child go with someone who cannot put the baby's needs before their own.

I hope he doesn't cause a scene for you.

He is just making things worse for himself.
I just feel rather anxious and panicky. Mum and Dad will keep her safe, I very much doubt he will try it.
I believe it's just about me, and controlling me.
He genuinly believed I would still bring her.
I never knew maternal instincts could be so strong. Maybe he doesn't realise this as I had PND, and had given in in to him before.
Just once and and he failed then

mrsscoob Sun 13-Jan-13 11:40:09

Good for you. You have been incredibly strong and brave and should be proud of yourself. He'll know now that you can't be bullied into doing what he wants.

PessaryPam Sun 13-Jan-13 11:48:31

Thinking of you. You are doing the right things to get out of the situation and rebuild yours and your DDs lives. Stay strong.

DeepRedBetty Sun 13-Jan-13 11:52:48

Hi hope you've managed to focus a bit on the course with all the shenannigans. Nothing else to add except the hand hold xxx

CecilyP Sun 13-Jan-13 12:04:26

Well done for being strong. Hope you are able to switch off the phone and concetrate on the course.

Thank you we are just on a break. No sign of him at my parents.
I feel quite brave now and satisfied.
I did namechange for this and most of you can guess who I am so ill have to namechange again, thank you for all your support and hand holding it means so much to us.

DeepRedBetty Sun 13-Jan-13 13:24:18

Oh are you going back to a version of the old one? I do hope so, it's a great name!

MammaTJ Sun 13-Jan-13 13:36:53

Glad things have worked out well today!! Keep strong.

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 13-Jan-13 13:48:47

Assuming you did pre inform him via a provable source email/txt last night, I'm guessing his text messages may make reference to that email/text? And are mostly of a unpleasant or threatening/ insulting/ abusive nature.

Can your phone either take screen shots of the text conversation and send them to your computer or email them to you so you have a record even if your phone is lost/ broken.

Chances are he does not really want to take you to court just as much as you don't wish to have to go but if he does he has just done quite a bit of your work for you.

From today onwards do not meet him anywhere unsafe and do not let him remove your dd ( he has openly threatened to take her and not return her) unless a trusted third party can prevent him from not returning her. Could your dad supervise any contact? Even if you are there because he's likely to kick off at you.

Be reasonable with his requests to see her but be clear that due to his threats and abuse it has to be supervised by someone you trust to be able to prevent him from carrying out his threats. Do not communicate with him for any reason other than to respond to any requests for contact, be very very polite to him make sure every comunication can be produced if needed in court and if he turns up at your house do not open the door to him unless you have a third party also there, make no arrangements verbally always follow up any verbal contact by email/ text stating what happened anything that was discussed ect.

Approach everything in writing by citing why it is or is not in the best interests of your dd.

Chances are he won't do anything court wise for a while and by the time he does you will have a good amount f evidence and he will struggle to appear decent and not bullying

DontmindifIdo Sun 13-Jan-13 13:49:18

you are doing well. It'll take him a while to learn that you mean what you say when it comes to your DD - but he'll get it eventually, he can't be that thick.

Let him go to court for access. He doesn't seem to actually want to spend time with her, just show her off and annoy you, so dont feel guilty about that.

Phew I'm home and all is safe is all well grin

ThereGoesTheYear Sun 13-Jan-13 16:45:58

Great news. Well done for standing up to him. The biggest mistake I made was in giving into bullying for fear of angering him. That just taught him that it worked. You might find that he'll come back with more twattishness, but don't be afraid to involve the police. Even at this stage, depending on the content of the messages he sent you, you could go to the police.

It was quite scary as I'm a rather sensitive soul so if he had met me in person I would have probably lost it.
I feel great for standing up to him and not subjecting DD to heavens knows what else.
It's nice to not sit apologising to her for once. I've done nothing wrong and it's not my apologies she needs to hear

Feeling a tad low now but i know I've done the right thing.
Do any of you ever feel lonely in a evening if your alone?
You know, no texts, nothing on tv etc hmm

flippinada Sun 13-Jan-13 19:14:38


I've just read all the way through this and want to say how downright amazing I think you are. I know from experience what it's like to fear a bullying ex and just how much courage it takes to stand up to them. So a great big well done to you!

Sorry you're feeling low, I know that feeling too. It will also be partly due to the come down after the stressful events of today, as well as you missing your little DD. Please be kind to yourself.

On a practical level I also strongly recommend keeping contact to the written word, whether that's text or email.

vole3 Sun 13-Jan-13 19:16:43

That's what mumsnet is for......
Have you got any friends who would like to come round for a regular girls evening with a good film & food?
A lot easier and cheaper than a babysitter!

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 13-Jan-13 19:17:12

OP it can get lonely but with time you'll learn to fill that void. Books from the library, tv shows to watch, or something else you enjoy that just fills that gap. It gets easier the longer you are in the situation, and the older they get. My favourite past time is MN grin

I unfortunately only have one friend and she's married.
I mostly end up at my parents but this time of life is for them.
I'm actually in bed now, I have sleeping tablets. I'm tempted to take them now and just sleep, then it just makes tommorow longer.
I have started a thread on lone parents.
I'm meeting a mumsnetter on Friday too so I'm quite excited about that.
My only other looking forward to is getting DD weighed tomorrow I like to know how she's doing.
I am having help with my depression.
I just miss a cuddle.
Thank you to all who say I am strong

TheEarlOfDoncaster1963 Sun 13-Jan-13 19:43:22

It is difficult when they are tiny, even with a partner. I'm glad you're meeting a new friend on Friday - I hope you have a great time! Are there any baby groups near where you live that you could go along too with DD? Some of them are a bit twee but it does at least get you out of the house and meeting people - they were a godsend when I moved to a new town and DS was 5 months old.
Well done for standing up to the ex - and sounds like you are well rid of him.

sherazade Sun 13-Jan-13 19:48:47

It's a really tricky situation and I feel for you.

No advice sorry. Hope it all works out.

mamamibbo Sun 13-Jan-13 20:29:32

wow, ive just read through and wanted to say you are AMAZING, you did it, you stood up to him and you didnt back down and now he know he cant bully you and make you do what he wants anymore

i dont even know you and i am really really proud of you and you should be proud of yourself, you were strong, you were brave and you did the best thing for your baby even tho you were scared, you are strong smile

Well done for standing up to him. I am sure you will feel the benefit of your new found strength in the days to come.

TheProvincialLady Sun 13-Jan-13 20:40:07

I've just seen that you are having a rough evening. That's probably the come down from all the adrenalin you had pumping round your system when you were standing up to your ex. I often get that and it makes me feel low, but it shoudl be gone by tomorrow. Good for you for standing up for yourself and your daughter! Not everyone can do that. And good for you for going on a course. You didn't say what it was for but it's all good stuff for your future and your daughter's. When my DC were 17 weeks I couldn't have held a pen the right way up, let alone concentrate for a few hoursgrin

CitrusyOne Sun 13-Jan-13 20:51:35

I'm much more of a lurker but I started reading this this morning and came on here just now to catch up with how things had gone. OP you DO sound very brave. You clearly love your little one very much and have a wonderfully protective mothering instinct. Remember how important this is for her- this doesn't come naturally to everyone. My DD is 12 wks old, and my OH works shifts and I struggle with evenings when he's not here so it's totally understandable how you feel. Evenings are hard. I hope you are able to continue to be as brave as you have been. Keep us informed. I hope you are able to rest tonight. Love to you and your tiny bundle x

Thank you for everyone's support.
I don't feel strong or brave.

Luckily the hotel is cheering me up before I try and get a good nights sleep. Just had a rather nice dribbly cuddle which puts alot in perspective for me.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Sun 13-Jan-13 22:22:40

Make i been a single mum for nearly 4 years, i spent the time bonding with my DD, and even though shes a real pain in the arse, i love her to bits.

DizzyZebra Mon 14-Jan-13 05:10:49

I'm pretty sure she shouldn't be spending the majority of 4 hours travelling in a car seat.

HappyNewHissy Mon 14-Jan-13 07:33:40

Well done! You got your KickAss Mummy badge today!

Keep it up!

Thank you.
Feeling pretty worn out this morning hardly any sleep so the snow is a good excuse for a duvet day.
I'm just so confused about what happens or what I should do regarding exP now!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Mon 14-Jan-13 08:55:37

Tell him you have taken advice (don't tell him it was MN), and that due to his inability to properly care for an infant he will not be having unsupervised visits. (Supervision by you/your parents at your house). If his family want to see her (which they have no legal rights to do) then he can facilitate that by bringing them to you/your parents house.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Mon 14-Jan-13 09:15:55

If you said to the GP or a HV, they would tell you much the same we have done. Until he can learn to look after her, then he gets supervised only.

IneedAsockamnesty Mon 14-Jan-13 13:52:57

You do nothing you say nothing you instigate nothing.

If he contacts you to arrange contact you respond with the requirements, if he contacts you with abuse you inform him you will not tolerate abuse threats or hostility.

You make it clear if he contacts you that your response it entirely due to him changing agreed issues, his lack of consideration or dd and his abuse towards you.

Thank you smile
Having wobbles today as I am tired

DeepRedBetty Mon 14-Jan-13 14:11:27

Hi, disgusting day, I can't think of anything better to do than snuggle up with a nice warm cat and MN, and I strongly advise you to do the same, replacing cat with baby grin. Stick to your guns if Twunt gets in touch.

I wish I lived nearer you.

Oh we have baby and pooch, all watching Jeeves and Wooster grin

Having a wobble now. DD just rolled over and he's missing it all.
She's in her play gym and he hasn't even seen it or got a photograph.
I know it's his loss but feel rather empty confused

DPotter Tue 15-Jan-13 15:28:27

Make - that's great another baby milestone !
Please DO NOT feel guilty about the baby's father.
You concentrate on the enjoyment of a baby who is growing and developing. Don't be in anyway tempted to take photo and send it to him. take the photo yes for your album

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