To think anyone who votes Tory is not that bright

(127 Posts)
rubberglove Wed 09-Jan-13 21:25:49

Even if it is not a matter of wrong and right, surely anyone with half a brain cell can see that supporting an under class that you created in the first place, is essential for stability.

catgirl1976 Wed 09-Jan-13 21:28:36

hmm

bp300 Wed 09-Jan-13 21:28:38

Thanks to the Labour party pretty much leaving the country bankrupt we can no longer afford to.

JoanByers Wed 09-Jan-13 21:29:30

yawn, can't you just bump the last of these 'tories are cunts' posts from last week? Or the one before that?

rubberglove Wed 09-Jan-13 21:31:32

I never said I was labour either bp300

yanbu and it can't be said too many times. bunch of bastards the lot of them.

Didn't the last one have this exact title?

0/10 for originality OP

MrsKeithRichards Wed 09-Jan-13 21:32:14

Bingo!

landofsoapandglory Wed 09-Jan-13 21:32:56

God these threads are boring!

Lilithmoon Wed 09-Jan-13 21:32:57

I honestly think that people who vote Tory vote to protect themselves and are not at all interested in life beyond the end of their proverbial front path.
I also think that unless they are super, super rich they are like turkeys voting for Christmas because not a single Tory MP gives a flying fuck about them.

RuleBritannia Wed 09-Jan-13 21:33:27

borisjohnsonshair

If you don't like any of them, why don't you stand for Parliament yourself?

bp300 Wed 09-Jan-13 21:33:29

rubberglove Wed 09-Jan-13 21:31:32
I never said I was labour either bp300
__________________________________
Whoever is in charged were screwed either way.

sameoldlovebunny Wed 09-Jan-13 21:33:45

i sometimes think that labour voters don't have the sense they were born with.

batsintheroof Wed 09-Jan-13 21:35:08

I think 'misguided' is more appropriate. I also think some people have less emotional intelligence and capacity for feeling empathy for those beyond their own friends and family.

cinnamonnut Wed 09-Jan-13 21:35:37

I know a lot of people who would say that about Labour voters

ll31 Wed 09-Jan-13 21:37:43

and i think that resorting to insults demonstrates a lack of real arguments-not in uk, not conservative but unimpressed with name calling

Dammit, I can't find it.
I'm positive the exact title was the same! Even "not that bright" as opposed to any other random insult!!!

Grr.

rubberglove Wed 09-Jan-13 21:41:26

I am not a labour voter. In fact I didn't mention labour at all. My post was about the Tories.

Once again the poor and disadvataged get fucked and very few papers engaging in decent social commentary about the dangers of this. Because they would rather discuss drivel.

Maybe it was deleted...

Virgil Wed 09-Jan-13 21:44:09

These are ridiculously boring and repetitive. Different People have different views. Thats what makes society interesting.

ConstantCraving Wed 09-Jan-13 21:44:34

Here here! No of course YANBU. As for all that 'labour left us bankrupt' crap -did you miss the fact that there was a GLOBAL recession. Didn't realise labour were so powerful that they could trigger that.

NolittleBuddahsorTigerMomshere Wed 09-Jan-13 21:46:04

YABU if we'd kept a Tory government, we wouldn't be in such a mess now

nocake Wed 09-Jan-13 21:50:00

Yawn...

colleysmill Wed 09-Jan-13 21:50:02

At this precise time I am deeply suspicious of any political party having the ideas and foresight to be able to dig ourselves out of this mess regardless of who and what's to blame.

Worrying times

marriedinwhite Wed 09-Jan-13 21:57:02

May be the really bright ones will be switching to UKIP wink

rubberglove Wed 09-Jan-13 21:57:34

nocake you're right, yawn...

Just that I have just watched Iron Lady and can't believe Cameron and co want to screw the under class their party created.

Nancy66 Wed 09-Jan-13 22:03:10

nobody did more to fuel the underclass than the last Labour government.

veryworried29 Wed 09-Jan-13 22:04:38

No, I think a lot of very bright people vote Conservative. They just don't give a shit.

cinnamonnut Wed 09-Jan-13 22:07:23

Am normally very chilled about politics but certain threads and articles recently have irritated me. Healthy people should taking responsibility for themselves for god's sake - then we'd have plenty of money left to help those who struggle with disabilities and so on.

all the screaming about eugenics when someone dares to suggest that someone with no money would be irresponsible to have 5 children or whatever drives me mad

CloudsAndTrees Wed 09-Jan-13 22:09:12

Out of the meagre choices of political parties we have to choose from, the vast majority will vote for the party that they think will serve their own interests best.

Nothing new there then.

Your right. Everything is the Tories fault. Every other party has the secret of Nirvana.

Or maybe people just think differently to you.

You are very boring.

RVPisnomore Wed 09-Jan-13 22:09:39

YABU. HTH.

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 09-Jan-13 22:12:05

So because of the way a person votes they may casually be called/accused of being:

-not very bright
-turkeys
-not giving a shit

I don't give a shiny shit who you vote for. It is your right to vote for whomever you chose. We live in a democracy and I assume if you're voting you've considered why.

I may disagree with your decision, but I wouldn't throw abuse at you for that choice.

Can I ask that you extend that curtesy too?

RedToothbrush Wed 09-Jan-13 22:14:09

Anyone who makes sweeping generalisations about groups of people lacking a brain cell... well... lacks a brain cell. grin

HTH

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Wed 09-Jan-13 22:14:16

Oh... do you think you're bright then, OP? 'Boring' has already been covered.

usualsuspect Wed 09-Jan-13 22:17:30

The more threads slagging off the Tories the better I say.

Can't say I disagree there usual grin

But on a serious note OP, I would assume that anyone that votes differently to me has had a different life experience to me. I would also suggest in my opinion their life experience is not truly representative of the UK. But that would be my opinion, and wouldn't make them stupid.
If they believe that all single mums on benefits have ipads the new 50" plasma telly, dontcha know then they are very lucky to have not witnessed other peoples poverty to the extent that I have.

rubberglove Wed 09-Jan-13 22:24:13

Ian Duncan Smith thinks 70 pounds job seeker allowance is too much.

After claiming for a 39 pounds breakfast in exspenses at tax payers exspense.

They are selfish, power-hungry nobs. Whether I am boring or not.

bp300 Wed 09-Jan-13 22:26:40

ConstantCraving Wed 09-Jan-13 21:44:34
Here here! No of course YANBU. As for all that 'labour left us bankrupt' crap -did you miss the fact that there was a GLOBAL recession. Didn't realise labour were so powerful that they could trigger that.
__________________________________________
No I didn't miss anything. Labour created a massive property boom by keeping interest rates too low, running a large defecit before long before the recession. These are the main reasons for the problems we face today. They also changed the law which allowed banks to keep loans off their balance sheets which is the reason they went bust. It was only a global recession because America and Europe were stupid enough to do the same thing. The recession wouldn't have been as bad if it wasn't for the above factors.

biscuit

rubberglove Wed 09-Jan-13 22:27:52

I am bright enough not to be hoodwinked by the Bullingdon boys.

Softlysoftly Wed 09-Jan-13 22:31:58

Simply 2 different economic approaches with a load of emotive stuff piled on top.

Yabu

threesocksmorgan Wed 09-Jan-13 22:32:21

yabu as no one could have really believed how shit the torries (and lib dems) would be/
so if you said
anyone who votes tory next time, is not bright......yanbu

RedToothbrush Wed 09-Jan-13 22:32:49

rubberglover, can you give us a manifesto for your plans for the country?

If you get enough support on MN you could stand for election.

Win, me over and I'll stick a fiver in for your deposit.

rubberglove Wed 09-Jan-13 22:34:21

Surely most voters vote emotively. What's wrong with I believe in equality and benefits for those unfortunate to be born into poor circumstances.

BettySuarez Wed 09-Jan-13 22:34:52

constantcraving you have just contradicted your own 'YADNBU' statement

The Tories inherited a shocking amount of debt from Labour and then there was a global recession caused by the banking crises.

No one is blaming Labour for the global recession - just the mind-boggling amount of debt that they left us with.

purits Wed 09-Jan-13 22:37:26

This breaks MN's No1 talk guideline: no personal attacks.

MorrisZapp Wed 09-Jan-13 22:38:28

Who should bright people vote for, and why?

rubberglove Wed 09-Jan-13 22:39:37

Just some compassion and empathy would do Redtoothnrush, instead of each for themselves.

Tory environmental policies disappointing too. It's all about the individual, greed and self-preservation.

It's not unreasonable to hold an opinion OP.
Even when it's wrong wink grin
Oh and define "not bright" - do mean having less than a specific IQ? or being not shiny, or non-reflective? or just not agreeing with you? or not sharing your political views? or not having specific qualifications? or not having reached a certain level of education?
You define "not bright" and I'll tell you whether I think you're unreasonable or not, and who knows, together we can change the world grin <dons armour and mounts white charger>

Redbindy Wed 09-Jan-13 22:40:11

I'm bright enough not to like the tories. I also earn too much to want another labour government. OP is it really "bright" to want to donate earned income to people you don't like via a notoriously inefficient civil service? Would voting for a party that includes Ed Bollocks and Ed Milliband in it's leadership the sign of a high IQ?

BettySuarez Wed 09-Jan-13 22:40:35

OP I would also be interested to hear who you voted for in the last election and who you intend to vote for in the next.

Explaining your reasons why?

ShellyBoobs Wed 09-Jan-13 22:40:49

I would hazard a guess that the average Tory voter is brighter (by any recognised method of measuring such a thing) than the average Labour voter.

rubberglove Wed 09-Jan-13 22:42:35

Next you'll accuse me of being Toryist

shellyboobs perhaps tory voters are less likely to wear hi-viz vests? grin

Sorry, that was too pombear blush

CloudsAndTrees Wed 09-Jan-13 22:43:42

Perhaps lots of Tory voters do have compassion and empathy, it's just not directed the way you want it to be?

rubberglove Wed 09-Jan-13 22:43:55

Ed Bollocks grin

* to

Ffs!

rubberglove Wed 09-Jan-13 22:44:44

Where is their compassion and empathy directed?

MorrisZapp Wed 09-Jan-13 22:45:25

This is a wind up thread. If OP won't say who they vote for then they're just looking to inflame.

CloudsAndTrees Wed 09-Jan-13 22:45:35

I don't know, I'm not one of them! It was a suggestion!

Snorbs Wed 09-Jan-13 22:45:37

I don't think Tory voters tend to lack intelligence. Well, no more than any other voting group.

I do find they tend to lack empathy.

rubberglove Wed 09-Jan-13 22:50:10

Green Party, I surely don't have to explain why.

BettySuarez Wed 09-Jan-13 22:50:25

I voted Tory this time around
Labour before that

I literally have no idea who I will vote for next - I feel very helpless to be honest

purits Wed 09-Jan-13 22:51:11

More than half of the population are net recipients from the Sate. Where is the compassion and empathy in making them reliant on Government funding? Labour don't give benefits or credits from compassion - they use taxpayers' money to to buy votes for their party.

Redbindy Wed 09-Jan-13 22:51:19

I used to have some empathy. Gordon Brown taxed it all.

BettySuarez Wed 09-Jan-13 22:51:39

You seriously think that the Green Party are capable of running this country?

Which of their policies do you particularly admire?

<pats Beyond gently> there there grin
<pours wine with lavish hand and passes round leftover Christmas choccies>

Lookingforthebrightside Wed 09-Jan-13 22:59:24

So then let's just give up the right to an opinion or to decide which way to vote and become a dictatorship or communist society?.

Don't think that is the way I want to go. So how about we say we live in a democracy and allow people to have differing opinions without making judgements of them!!

rubberglove Wed 09-Jan-13 23:00:41

Well if I was Green mp I would borrow, borrow, borrow to invest in renewable energy sources, replace all street lights with LEDs, research into hydrogen power, retrofitting buildings.

This would stimulate economy, save money, protect us from future fluctuations in energy prices.

It has never been cheaper to borrow at such low interest rates, use this for such projects and because of high cost of energy you make annual savings even after interest costs on borrowing. You help private sector by investing in business and protect Britain as future leader.

Oh and you protect the environment, without which we are all fucked

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 09-Jan-13 23:02:17

<adds lacking in empathy to list of shortcomings>

Sigh.

ShellyBoobs Wed 09-Jan-13 23:02:33

I would borrow, borrow, borrow...

No further questions, Your Honour.

CloudsAndTrees Wed 09-Jan-13 23:02:46

grin

Ummm, ok then....

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 09-Jan-13 23:05:42

You might need more than one policy to successfully run the country I think.

RedToothbrush Wed 09-Jan-13 23:05:57

I don't vote emotively actually. Because its a bit fucking pointless. Nor do I vote along party lines without looking at who was actually standing in my constituency. Cos that really would be fucking stupid.

So I can only vote for the candidates to represent me in my area. And I take this a damn site more seriously, than just voting along party lines. The system also means that sometimes I have to vote tactically, rather than for who I actually want because of their chances of actually winning. Lesser of all evils type thing.

Strangely enough last time, like every other time, I voted based on the three candidates standing in my area and whether I thought they were up to the job or not.

Where there are shit candidates this would also affect my vote far more than the party they represent, due to their competence... and this is reflected in my voting habits being a swing voter.

For example, if you honestly, gave me a choice between voting Nadine Dorres and Ed Milliband and I'd vote Ed. Give me a choice between Ed Balls and William Hague and I'd vote Hague.

As it goes, in case you hadn't realised, you can't vote for a party to win overall as we don't have a presidential system.

And actually, I find people who don't properly understand the system and don't even bother to find out anything about their local candidate and just vote for team colours and continue to believe shite about how one party would be SOOOOOO much better far, far more blinkered and not that bright.

We'd be fucked with Labour. We'd be fucked with the LDs. We'd be fucked with the Torys.

As for the Greens. Lets spunk a lot of cash we don't have on something thats a) not proven and may not even be possible b) often not anywhere near as environmentally friendly as people think.

Personally I live in the real world, not Lala land.

BettySuarez Wed 09-Jan-13 23:06:00

So the renewable energy industry could be single handedly responsible for turning our economy around?

OP I have a feeling that you might be quite young (are you still at school or college?) as your posts sound a little naive. So I'm reluctant to be too hard on you!

But even so ......

timidviper Wed 09-Jan-13 23:06:24

People are too stupid to look at anything other than their own immediate interests and are too swayed by what the media tell them to think.

BettySuarez Wed 09-Jan-13 23:08:07

Well I'm off to buy some energy saving lightbulbs. Don't tell me I'm not doing my bit for queen and country blush

BettySuarez Wed 09-Jan-13 23:08:29

That should have been a wink

batsintheroof Wed 09-Jan-13 23:08:59

rubberglove

Noone thinks the environment is important or gives a fuck anymore. They only care about economics. I doubt more than 50% of mumsnet even believes in cimate change. Your words fall on deaf ears and it's probably too late anyway.

rubberglove Wed 09-Jan-13 23:10:34

Clearly you read one part of my post, not very bright if you want to engage in proper debate.

It is cheaper for the government to borrow now to stimulate the economy. Particularly with something as important as renewable energy.

Clearly reducing the deficit and cuts is working out though hmm

I am beginning to see what the Tories are doing. And I am beginning to respect Cameron as a PM too. Lets give this a shot, eh?

Another year, and he might be hailed as the PM who finally got this country, this government and this people on track. The pm who had a BELIEF in the capability of his country men to work, to progress, to innovate, to come though in hardship, despite the Labour party (along with the "old" conservatives" ) trying to convince everybody they have no worth, no value, and cant even be trusted with a job and some earning potential, let alone home ownership and self governance!

(But I have had wine, so my clarity may be questionable)

BettySuarez Wed 09-Jan-13 23:14:22

Rubber - borrow what and from whom?

Money? There is no money (labour spent it all and then some)

Lookingforthebrightside Wed 09-Jan-13 23:14:44

Different parties suit different people depending on their circumstances.

What I find relevant and important in my life might be very different from you. Some people are filthy rich (and may or may not pay appropriate tax dependent on their accountant), some may be poor having always worked hard and only made minimum wage, others may be poor and never worked a day in their life but their kids have all the latest gadgets.

Which ever way it it is for you, surely you pick a political party that fits with your lifestyle, needs, and aspirations and ideals for the future.

Nobody should be judged by or have to justify their values or opinions.

I say by all means have an opinion but don't label others because it is not your opinion!

RedToothbrush Wed 09-Jan-13 23:16:16

Na, you are the One True Genius and we bow down to your superior knowledge.

Honestly, if it really were that simple, why has no one done it. Not a single government. Not a single entrepreneur.

rubberglove Wed 09-Jan-13 23:16:37

Actually one of the reasons I voted Green was because he was the only candidate who bothered to come to my door and I liked what he had to say.

I am neither young nor naive. Wish I was both.

We are screwing the planet and none of the major parties care enough to implement policies that will really save the planet and us. It is dim, very dim.

thebody Wed 09-Jan-13 23:17:32

Blah blah blah!!!

threesocksmorgan Wed 09-Jan-13 23:18:00

you would have to be very "un bright" to vote for the tories next time round.
or have a hatred for the most vulnerable.
anyone who votes for a political party, who has a leader who targets the disabled. whilst pretending to care, has to be very stupid, or selfish

BettySuarez Wed 09-Jan-13 23:19:24

So are you anti Tory because of their anti environmental policies then?

Is that it? Or do you have wider concerns?

CloudsAndTrees Wed 09-Jan-13 23:19:27

None of the major countries care enough to implement policies that will really save the planet, and until they do, anything that we can do from this tiny little island will be like pissing in the wind.

ShellyBoobs Wed 09-Jan-13 23:19:50

It is cheaper for the government to borrow now...

It's only cheap because the world markets trust the UK not to borrow a shit load of money and spunk it.

batsintheroof Wed 09-Jan-13 23:20:46

PureQuintessence

This is what they want you to think. What they're actually doing is not evidence-based and their policies are rooted in the misguided ideology that the private sector is fundamentally better than the public sector at running everything, because the tories love market-based forces that are profit driven. For example, today the tories outlined theor plans to privatise part of the probation service. There is no evidence that this will be a good thing. They tried to sell off our forests, they are privatising the health service, they have created 'free schools'. They are dicing with establishments that WORK and are incredibly well respected around the world. The tories are nutters.

And most of them don't believe in climate change, either.

Nutters.

rubberglove Wed 09-Jan-13 23:21:37

I don't know why but it seems sensible to turn the tide of destruction before it is too late no?

rubberglove Wed 09-Jan-13 23:24:51

It is a sort of linear, short-term thinking, sort of sleepwalking into the abyss.

No empathy for future generations. Frightening.

ShellyBoobs Wed 09-Jan-13 23:26:59

So, bats, if people don't agree with you they're nutters?

hmm

I bet you're converting Tory voters by the dozen.

(And no, I've never been a Tory voter.)

Energy saving lightbulbs are poisonous, and do more harm to the environment than the old filament ones, when they are not disposed of properly. Just look up and see how many local authorities provide the proper facilities to dispose of old ones safely - not many. They are also designed to be left on all the time, to obtain the maximum efficiency and longest lifetimes.
And as for wind turbines, unless they are made of recycled cars (or similar, I am being a tad sarky here) the damn things have the carbon footprint of the average sub saharan nation.
And while the big energy companies maintain their stranglehold on any and all patentable research into non-fossil energy, nothing will ever take the place of King Oil. There is a growing body of research showing that we actually reached Peak Oil several years ago, but it's very difficult to get the big oil companies to release the necessary data.
As that vile warbling diva said "it's all about the money, money" and green doesn't pay.

batsintheroof Wed 09-Jan-13 23:33:02

I don't want to convert tory voters, Shelly, I want to avoid them generally.

Cameron said that most UKIP voters were weird, so I can say that tories are nutters, no?

DadOnIce Wed 09-Jan-13 23:35:37

Historically, it is usually the Right who stereotype the Left as stupid, naive and profligate, and the Left who stereotype the Right as uncaring, nasty and evil.

Nobody who is politically tribalist and subscribes to these fixed ideas can ever see them for what they are. This is why British politics is stuck in a rut.

Softlysoftly Thu 10-Jan-13 00:11:49

Pombear the wind turbine thing dives me nuts too. In their lifespan they are unlikely to pay back their carbon cost. Let alone when they are off as it's not windy enough, or too windy hmm. Why haven't we as an island looked at tidal energy?

That aside I hate the sweeping statements of no empathy, lack of intelligence blah blah. Like every Tory voter is sat stroking a white cat laughing manically. I voted Tory. I believe that the welfare state as it stands makes people feel workless and entitled and unable to change. That's awful and my empathy says in the long run the morals and pride of the country will be improved by horrible decisions now. That people's lives will ultimately be better, how is that not empathetic? I believe that we needed to cut the deficit. I believe we need to expand private enterprise to survive.

They certainly are cutting the deficit, the rest remains to be seen at the moment I'm not sure who I would vote for again.

As an aside I voted different parties for our Ward counsellors and the Welsh assembly based on local policies.

Stoneinwelly Thu 10-Jan-13 00:24:33

It always seems that most of the intelligencia/ literati are Labour voters here. However we don't seem to have a split like America where most of the normal people ( and politicians) are democrats and the real redneck morons are republican to a man (or woman).

asheepatthewheel Thu 10-Jan-13 00:29:34

Hardly anyone votes for the greater good. They mostly vote according to self interest. I have no hope.

piprabbit Thu 10-Jan-13 00:39:22

I heard a comment about this on the Today programme this week.

In times of economic difficulty, people prefer to vote "mean but competent" rather than vote "nice but dim".

If you lead a party that is "nice and competent" you are on to a winner.

But the UK doesn't seem to have one of those.

Problem there, piprabbit, is that we have "nice but dim", "mean and incompetent" and "nicer, but even more dim" as our main three parties.

We're screwed as a country, we really are.
As for the OP, I don't think Tory voters are stupid, I think they're thinking about themselves and their family rather than others. Which is fair enough in principle, but bloody horrible for those on the other side!

dreamingofsun Thu 10-Jan-13 09:32:22

so making the country bankrupt (which is what labour seems to do) is good for people and the future generations? You want to end up like greece? personally i think some labour voters just think of themselves - ie how much more money should the state (or other taxpayers) be giving me.

no-one can continue living beyond their means - although i guess labour and its voters would like to think so - just stores up problems though, especially for our kids who would eventually have to sort the mess out once it had got to massive proportions

LessMissAbs Thu 10-Jan-13 09:34:59

This post is another boring attempt a brainwashing via idea-planting. Its pretty pathetic. Obviously in a democracy you want to have a healthy political choice.

Dawndonna Thu 10-Jan-13 09:38:09

Haven't read the whole thread, but will do. Just for now. My brother is a Tory. Anyone who has got to know me on here will know that I am anything but.
I think that people who make such sweeping general statements are dim.

manicinsomniac Thu 10-Jan-13 09:41:18

YABVU

You could have chosen any number of derogatory things to call tory voters and you would have been either correct or at least entitled to your opinion.

But not very bright isn't one of them. Large numbers of tory voters are in top academic jobs with excellent academic degrees from top universities. They are, objectively, very bright. Yes money can help you get to the top in life but not without brains as well.

I'm sure lots of tory voters also have very low IQs. And lots of labour voters will have very high IQs. There will be a spread of intelligence across all political parties just like with everything else. You're being ridiculous.

AmberSocks Thu 10-Jan-13 09:42:29

im suprised at all the anti tory comments on mn,mn seems extremeley tory to me.

Thewhingingdefective Thu 10-Jan-13 09:48:10

Tories: bunch of selfish fuckers.

AmberSocks Thu 10-Jan-13 09:54:55

i have only voted once and it was for the peace party,even though they obviously had no chance they represented what i believed in the most.

RedToothbrush Thu 10-Jan-13 10:49:11

The irony is, that sometimes a good leader SHOULD do things that are unpleasant or unpopular. Not because its selfish, but for quite the opposite reason.

Populist and short term politics are partly the reason we are in this mess.

Certainly issues over pensions have been going on for decades and have pandered to vote winning populist ideas. Thus just kicking the problem further down the line until it becomes a crisis. And both the Labour Party and the Tories are guilty of this.

Borrowing to solve a problem of having too much debt by arguing it will stimulate things is a dangerous and controversial policy. Can you imagine proposing this as a business to a bank?

Arguments about tax loopholes on the other hand are better, though in part ignore some of the problems this entails and tend to rather simplify the debate. Tax loop holes have to be tackled on an international basis, not just a domestic one for it to be fully effective.

As for putting up taxes. Theres merit to it. But how much extra revenue will it actually bring in, especially since those with most money also have the most mobility. The reaction in France is interesting to watch, with a number of wealthy people moving out. Not to mention I do find it interesting that the french have deemed income tax increases to 75% as 'unconstitutional' - not because the rate is too high, that was deemed fine, but because the french are taxed as households rather than individuals so this was deemed unfair (cough, cough, comparison with child benefit changes in the uk, cough, cough).

And I do think its very easy to forget that very necessary changes to mortgage lending to ensure banks don't collapse that mean that 100% mortgages are pretty much a thing of the past, were always going to take at least 5 - 6 years to even out as it would take at least that long for first time buyers to start getting deposits that big together and that was without drops in house prices wiping out equity further up the housing chain. There was never ever going to be a quick fix solution to our economic problems, just from looking at the root causes of it.

We also, as individuals can not expect to carry on living in the way we have. Our personal debt burden was unsustainable. Like it or not, even people on good incomes haven't been living within their means for years. It does need a change in attitude from the public as well. And of course, that one isn't going to be a popular change to bring about whoever it effects.

In short I don't think that a lot of the population actually have realistic expectations nor do they have a good understanding of the complex nature of economics. Not because they are thick, or selfish, or because they are either labour or tory supporters. But because these concepts are damn complex in the first place and its made worse because you have to be actively interested in them to seek out unbiased views and facts that aren't politically twisted. Most people haven't got that motivation. Most people haven't got the luxury of time to look at things in depth and objectively. Its easier to just jump on the latest bangwagon and blame X, Y and Z.

The general public want politics to be simple. Which suits the parties and the stereotyping. They aren't though. You have to fully understand a problem to solve it. That will never include bashing anyone along party lines.

Adversecamber Thu 10-Jan-13 11:24:33

I didn't vote Tory and loathe them. However I think levels of intelligence has nothing to do with how people vote.

I think political tribalism is dangerous, you are attracted to people with the same ideals generally but we need to mix with people who are not the same as us as much as possible. This helps levels of understanding.

I was a trade union activist for many years and some of the most narrow minded people I have ever met were on the extreme left.

PessaryPam Thu 10-Jan-13 11:33:51

Yawn OP.

What a ridiculous post. For the record I have never voted Tory, but my DH does. He is many things to me, but I can assure you that he is regarded as is being "Bright" by others.

Getting the economy back on track is essential, and actually I think the coalition is doing a reasonable job. Was it Liam Byrne (ex Labour minister) who left the note saying the money had run out? I really don't want Labour back in after the shambles they left.

picketywick Thu 10-Jan-13 11:51:17

The stats suggest that in most poor areas Labour or Liberals get elected. In rich areas it is almost always Tories who become MPs

there are some exceptions

RedToothbrush Thu 10-Jan-13 12:00:35

There could be lots of reasons for that. Tribalism being one of them. And absolutely nothing to do with how rich or poor someone is.

DadOnIce Thu 10-Jan-13 14:46:19

Is everyone who votes Conservative "nasty" or "uncaring"? I have a (very annoying) Facebook friend who seems to think so. He is constantly re-posting stuff from that blog Nobody Likes A Tory, and putting up links to every policy decision with comments like "Fucking bastard Tories." The other day he was suggesting we should "kick this lot out now and be done with it, not wait for the election" - which sounds dangerously like a lack of respect for democracy to me.

That's part of the problem with democracy - every few years it means putting up with a lot in government you don't like, or at least like less than the other lot. Surely people have to suck it up. The boot will be on the other foot in a few years (a couple, even) and they can have a good crow then.

TranceDaemon Thu 10-Jan-13 15:59:00

YANBU

batsintheroof Thu 10-Jan-13 17:35:26

I agree that tribalism can be bad. When you refuse to listen to any reason becasue of another person's politics etc. I still dislike Tories and don't have any as immediate friends or family. I'd argue too much with them. You don't find many Tories in a scientific environment, where I work, thank goodness.

RedToothbrush Thu 10-Jan-13 17:45:30

WTF!

batsintheroof I really hope that was an ironic comment or I think you are winner of today's MN award for silly posts.

xanderxine Tue 15-Jan-13 16:43:34

"Lilithmoon Wed 09-Jan-13 21:32:57

I honestly think that people who vote Tory vote to protect themselves and are not at all interested in life beyond the end of their proverbial front path.
I also think that unless they are super, super rich they are like turkeys voting for Christmas because not a single Tory MP gives a flying fuck about them."

Never has the nail been hit so squarely on the head!!

Lilithmoon Wed 16-Jan-13 19:56:20

Thanks xanderxine.

As an old gimmer I've lived through two lots of labour governments virtually bankrupting the country. Not learning from previous lessons and living beyond your means - that's dim!

ClippedPhoenix Wed 16-Jan-13 20:09:14

I actually think there's not a party existing in our political arena these days that amounts to much sad

nennypops Wed 16-Jan-13 20:21:03

How can dreamingofsun claim that it is labour that causes the country to become bankrupt? They left the economy in much better shape than it is now, and the double dip has happened under Tory control of the economy. The truth is that Osborne is staggeringly incompetent.

littlemisssunny Wed 16-Jan-13 20:21:36

I think whoever got in this time would be extremely unpopular.

Every government does things we like and things we don't.

One of the good things in this country is at least we have the right to vote without being worried we are going to be shot/the voting fixed.

I don't have a clue who my friends and family vote for because they do so for their own reasons and it wouldn't make me think any differently if they voted for conservative/labour whoever.

I think you made a very sweeping generalisation and that is what I would judge you on, not who you choose to vote for!

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