to be disgusted and angry? RAGE RAGE RAGE (Rape related, may trigger)

(208 Posts)
LoopsInHoops Tue 08-Jan-13 14:23:56

You may have heard about the Steubenville rape cover-up in Ohio that was uncovered by hacking group, Anonymous?

I read a few things about it, but hadn't read the hacking group's own account. here it is

I am absolutely disgusted at the level of deceit and evil in one small town.

The poor girl was drugged by a group (having had their coache's permission) then raped by loads of them. And now there are videos floating around the internet, not only of these horrible creatures (most of whom haven't been charged, the police having deleted the incriminating evidence), but also of one admitting to raping her and all his friends finding it absolutely fucking hilarious. here, grim watching, not for the sensitive (like me)

AIBU to have had no idea that the system in a western country can be so utterly fucked up as to allow this behaviour on account of school/sporting popularity? It is so fucking wrong. angry

LoopsInHoops Tue 08-Jan-13 14:30:38

From the web page:

We have received an extraordinary set of particular leaks from a number of young people in Steubenville who were witness to various parts of this horrendous crime. From this material, we have been able to piece together a timeline of events on that fateful night in August 2012. During this description, we will refer to the victim as “Jane Doe”.

After being convinced, with some amount of coaxing – to attend the parties that night with the “Rape Crew” by by Mark Cole’s girlfriend Santoro, Jane Doe was picked up at a volley ball team party she was attending in the early evening of August 11th and transported in a vehicle with Richmond, Mays and Cole in it. Jane Doe was administered a “date rape” drug snuck into her drink almost immediately, possibly while still in the vehicle enroute to the nights “festivities”. In any case, she has no memories after being picked up. The first party of the night was at the home of Assistant Coach Rick Cameletti, where Michael Nodianos, Charlie Keenan, Cody Saltsman, and Anthony Craig were already engaged in heavy drinking and drug use. At this location Jane Doe was raped multiple times by Richmond and Mays and at least two other assailants from the “Rape Crew”. At that point the “party” went on the move. They first stopped at another Assistant Coach’s home, Coach Belerdine. Belardine was not at home but his son and daughter were. Jane Doe was again sexually assaulted at this party. They hit the road again with an unconscious Jane Doe in tow. While en route to Mark Cole’s house, Jane was again raped and sodomized in the back seat of a vehicle – and this was video recorded by Mark Cole who was in the front seat. Her attackers in the car were again Mays and Richmond. Once they arrived at Mark Cole’s house Jane Doe was carried to the basement where she was again raped multiple times by multiple attackers, one of which was Michael Nodianos. Also at the Cole residence, Jane Doe was orally raped by Trent Mays. Finally, having sated themselves and exhausted any further entertainment that Jane Doe could provide for these animals, she was unceremoniously dumped (still unconscious) onto the front lawn of the Cole residence – where at least one member of the “Rape Crew” proceeded to urinate on her. At some point in the early morning hours of August 12th, a still unconscious Jane Doe was transported to her home in West Virginia – where she was deposited on the front lawn of her families home. She was discovered there by her parents at dawn.

Hanikam Tue 08-Jan-13 14:31:35

Yanbu, heard rumours of frat house rape before, but this is sickening. They'll probably chalk it up to naughty boys sowing their wild oats as usual. Or blame the victim for allowing herself to get it in that state.
Have you noticed that rape is one of the few crimes where the victim is commonly blamed for enticement / dress code / behaviour / hanging with wrong crowd etc? Grrrrrrr

LoopsInHoops Tue 08-Jan-13 14:34:07

She was lured to them, drugged, and taken, unconscious to multiple locations, raped in each, then abandoned, still unconscious and urinated on, on her parents' lawn, as revenge for splitting up with one of them How anyone could ever claim that as her fault I will never begin to imagine.

imogengladhart Tue 08-Jan-13 14:38:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ScrambledSmegs Tue 08-Jan-13 14:39:43

Oh god, that's vile. Is anything actually being done to prosecute these rapists, and the people who've enabled/covered up their crimes?

Poor girl. 16 years old. So young sad

mindosa Tue 08-Jan-13 14:39:55

New York Times had a good article on this and given the level of outrage about India, I am surprised that this didnt receive more attention

veryworried29 Tue 08-Jan-13 14:41:33

Disgusting but you shouldn't have included all the lurid details.

ShamyFarrahCooper Tue 08-Jan-13 14:42:10

YANBU. My blood boils about this, all because the boys are 'sports stars'. Fucking shameful.

LoopsInHoops Tue 08-Jan-13 14:42:36

One (or two?) charged as juveniles, only for rape not kidnap. hmm Not even the guy who admitted it on camera (who incidentally is an adult) - police claim to not be able to access the video - it's all over the net!

imogengladhart Tue 08-Jan-13 14:43:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LoopsInHoops Tue 08-Jan-13 14:44:22

Why veryworried? Is it not important that this doesn't pass everyone by?

RalphGnu Tue 08-Jan-13 14:54:57

Absolutely horrifying. That poor, poor girl. sad angry

Flatbread Tue 08-Jan-13 14:59:52

Completely shocking! I am so, so angry too angry

JessicaMLH Tue 08-Jan-13 15:06:06

Absolutely disgusting, horrific, there just isn't a word to describe it angry

Poor poor girl. I'm just glad she was unconscious so hopefully doesn't remember any of it... Though maybe she could have fought back if conscious...though with that many men around, probably not sad

I am speechless and so angry.

I don't even have the words to describe how sickening that is. sad

Bump to keep active.

DesperatelySeekingSedatives Tue 08-Jan-13 15:24:40

I feel so sick after reading that. How can anyone think this poor girl brought this on herself?! That's what gets me. As for those adults and the rapists themselves I hope they get some sort of comeuppance and soon. But more than that I hope this girl gets justice. No one deserves this treatment, no one. These fucking disgusting pyschos need stopping because otherwise they will do this again and again, for as long as they get away with it.

There's some stuff I read or hear about that makes me genuinely terrified about the world my kids are growing up in and this is one of them.

Dahlen Tue 08-Jan-13 15:24:51

YANBU. Sickening, disgusting, completely unacceptable in a country that claims to be a egalitarian democracy.

Having been brought to public attention, I hope these sickening excuses for human beings suffer the public condemnation and legal consequences they deserve. And I include all those who have turned a blind eye to this and in doing so made themselves complicit.

LoopsInHoops Tue 08-Jan-13 15:28:41

Thanks for the petition links smile

DesperatelySeekingSedatives Tue 08-Jan-13 15:33:37

Signed the bottom petition and shared it on FB.

PessaryPam Tue 08-Jan-13 15:35:21

Anonymous are also active in hunting down and exposing paedophile rings on-line. I occasionally send them a sub.

MrsWolowitz Tue 08-Jan-13 15:38:06

Revolting little monsters angry

Booyhoo Tue 08-Jan-13 15:42:28

vile vile vile! that poor girl. just fucking atrocious. they all need to face charges for their part in that, including the officers that deleted evidence!

Flatbread Tue 08-Jan-13 15:45:12

I think in cases like this, where there is clear evidence, everyone guilty should be castrated. That will send a strong message of a zero tolerance rape policy.

raffle Tue 08-Jan-13 15:45:33

That link reads almost like a book plot, it's seems impossible for there to be that many sick minded individuals living in the same town, and acting as a collective.

Dahlen Tue 08-Jan-13 15:51:23

Sadly there are plenty of past and contemporaneous examples of the rape and brutalisation of women at the hands of men who feel entitled to behave in such ways and believe themselves to be above accountability. The reason we find this shocking is because we like to believe this sort of thing only happens elsewhere in the world (e.g. rape as a weapon of war in the Republic of Congo or honour-based violence in Pakistan).

In the UK 1 in 9 women will be raped. Don't know what the stats are in the US but western democracies certainly don't have the moral high ground when it comes to mistreatment of women.

AlienananaReflux Tue 08-Jan-13 15:56:13

this is fucking outrageous, and indicitive of rape cses being swept under the carpet all over the world, what the hell is going oN??!!

If my son was one of those boys, I would make sure he faced justice myself.

LoopsInHoops Tue 08-Jan-13 15:57:01

I expect it's more than 1 in 9 in reality. sad Certainly sexual violence of some sort will be higher - non reported.

Tailtwister Tue 08-Jan-13 15:57:49

What a deplorable case. I haven't read the details, but the overall description is enough. If one of my sons was involved, I would be turning him in myself. How adults could help them to cover it up is beyond me.

searching4serenity Tue 08-Jan-13 16:00:58

Horrific. I'm speechless.

juniper904 Tue 08-Jan-13 16:01:50

Absolutely disgusting. The general attitude towards victims of rape repulses me. Far too many people still have this idea that the victim brought it on.

PiccadillyCervix Tue 08-Jan-13 16:03:01

I don't understand the mentality that sports stars or "artists" have a get out clause of being decent humans. Mumsnet thread about polanski retrospective here

Good on anonymous

This is truly and utterly heinous. The more I read about it the more I am getting angry. The corruption, cover up, the amount of people defending these monsters and blaming the victim. I hope that the rally's get bigger, I hope the media interest gets bigger, I hope all the people involved from the rapists themselves, to the law enforcement and the school who are covering this up are exposed as the vile, rancid shits that they are. The world is watching this now.

PiccadillyCervix Tue 08-Jan-13 16:05:34

The Honorable Jane Hanlin is a Prosecuting Attorney for Jefferson County and the mother of Big Red football player Charlie Keenan, who is suspected of being a member of “The Rape Crew”.

holy shit

HecatePropolos Tue 08-Jan-13 16:07:31


I was also reading recently about a rape survivor who was fined by the police! Apparently they decided she was making it up.

Much later a man was caught. He had kept pictures of his victims.

One of the pictures was of her.

I want to scream and cry and go crazy with a baseball bat and a million other things when this shit just keeps on happening.

WHEN will women's bodies stop being seen as the property of men?

(not all men have this view. I know this.)

PiccadillyCervix Tue 08-Jan-13 16:07:57

Upsetting that so many of these people were able to leak shit to anonymous after the fact rather than just stop the rapes or get the police over there or the girl's parents. It's not like every kid in the world hasn't got a phone now a days.

PiccadillyCervix Tue 08-Jan-13 16:10:11

If my son was one of those boys, I would make sure he faced justice myself.

Exactly this AlienananaReflux not until after I'd ripped his bloody balls off though

WaspFactory Tue 08-Jan-13 16:17:42

Utterly depressing to know that anyone could do this to another human being, let alone priveleged, educated young men. I hope they all get what they deserve.

lovelyladuree Tue 08-Jan-13 16:47:01

And this is all on MN because? confused

PiccadillyCervix Tue 08-Jan-13 16:48:23

Why do you think lovely confused

Why shouldn't it be on mn?

stopgap Tue 08-Jan-13 16:53:35

Dear god. That is nauseating. If that was my son, he'd be on his way to a Siberian work camp (one-way ticket).

BattlingFanjos Tue 08-Jan-13 16:54:37

This is the first I have heard of this. I truly cannot comprehend the mindset of ANY of the people involved. I can read/hear a lot of horrendous things and feel quite desensitised bit this has made me weep and feel so sick.
I have a son and would personally "do time" if this was him. I do not condone violence but I would kill him, literally I could not EVER turn a blind eye to it or worse, cover it up for him. That poor poor girl. I wish and hope with every fibre of my being that in whatever shape or form these men (they made the choice of men and should be tried as such) get what's coming to them. I am truly disgusted by these animals

CajaDeLaMemoria Tue 08-Jan-13 16:54:49

While I don't deny that this needs press attention, and that people should talk about this type of thing, this is incredibly triggering.

Is it possible for something to be put in the title? Not to stop people from looking, that isn't my intention, but just as a warning?

This kind of thing makes me wish that rapists had their balls cut off.

I just hope that she never remembers a single part of her terrible ordeal.

LoopsInHoops Tue 08-Jan-13 17:03:36

No idea why it shouldn't be on MN confused , but have asked MNHQ if they would put a warning in the title. Sorry, the last thing I wanted was to upset people. Sorry sad

WakeUpRosemary Tue 08-Jan-13 17:06:09

There's a book called 'Our Guys' by Bernard Lebkovitz that investigates a similar case of gang rape that happened in 1989 in Glen Ridge, New Jersey. In the Glen Ridge, the survivor had special needs and was very vulnerable. It talks about that strain of American culture that supports sports 'stars' to the detriment of everybody else. I'm horrified that it seems to have got worse.

PiccadillyCervix Tue 08-Jan-13 17:17:56

rosemary there is a strain of all culture that accepts bad behavior from stars. Look at the link I posted up thread or to any of the many footballers who have been charged with sex abuse or where even their victims were blamed, or at fucking Assange who has admitted to having sex without a condone and without consent.

PiccadillyCervix Tue 08-Jan-13 17:18:41

I'm not sure why we accept things from celebrities that we wouldn't accept from anyone else.

Booyhoo Tue 08-Jan-13 17:23:07

"The reason we find this shocking is because we like to believe this sort of thing only happens elsewhere in the world (e.g. rape as a weapon of war in the Republic of Congo or honour-based violence in Pakistan)."

i disagree. i cant speak for anyone else but this doesn't shock me because i think rape only happens in other countries. i have seen enough UK news to know what men in this country are capable of doing to women. i am fully aware of it's effect on the women of this country. it shocks me because it is a shocking story. regardless of how much i have heard about vicious attacks on women i am repeatedly shocked and disgusted everytime i hear something new. and i think that is a natural response. it's when we aren't shocked that we (as a nation) should worry.

Abitwobblynow Tue 08-Jan-13 17:23:33

This is ABUSE. This is people thinking they are superior and special and entitled to use another as an object of contempt, and all involved need to be confronted with their attitudes and required to examine and change them.

Dahlen Tue 08-Jan-13 17:25:30

Booyoo - I was responding to a comment made above: That link reads almost like a book plot, it's seems impossible for there to be that many sick minded individuals living in the same town, and acting as a collective. I was talking specifically about organised rape/abuse involving multiple perpetrators.

That's horrific. I wish it sounded like an abberation but it doesn't does it? Not after the last few days.

Poor girl. I hope she gets the satisfaction of seeing these bastards in jail for as long as the law allows.

Booyhoo Tue 08-Jan-13 17:29:08

apologies Dahlen. i took your post to mean all rape.

RalphGnu Tue 08-Jan-13 18:18:40

Bumping and seething. Can't get this out of my mind.

Afrodizzywonders Tue 08-Jan-13 18:18:52

I can't believe what I have read in those links, horrified......

blueemerald Tue 08-Jan-13 18:22:27

Woah, do they have permission to put that photo of that girl in the bathroom mirror on the internet for everyone to see? I admire them for bringing this horrendous attack to public attention but to accuse someone of possessing/distributing under age indecent images and then post one of them on a website??

Booyhoo Tue 08-Jan-13 18:29:17

good point blueemerald. there really was no need to post the picture, they could have just said that it was discovered on his computer (or was it his phone?)

NoHank Tue 08-Jan-13 18:37:32

Whilst I found this really difficult to read (am in tears actually) I thank you for making me aware of this. I had not heard anything about this case before.

If I'm honest I mainly lurk on mumsnet and only occasionally post on the more lighthearted threads but I have signed the petitions and hope this very small act will go some way towards seeing justice done for this young ladysad

StuntGirl Tue 08-Jan-13 18:43:59

Absolutely abhorrent. HOW anyone can stand by and watch this happen is BEYOND me. SO many people have failed this young girl, its absolutely sickening.

SucksToBeMe Tue 08-Jan-13 18:47:35

Poor poor girl, how on earth do you move on from such an ordeal? I hope all those involved in disposing of evidence are dealt with accordingly also, shame on them all.

Booyhoo Tue 08-Jan-13 18:51:21

that's what i dont get either stuntgirl. were they all so terrified of speaking out against the 'rape crew' that they couldn't have even slipped away and made a call to the police or even texted a parent and asked them to?

also, the way they took her with them to all the different parties so they could continue raping her. it's almost as if she was a blow up doll or something. it's just fucking sickening that people have raised these men to be so detatched from humanity that they could do this. dont they see she is just like them? she is a human with thoughts and feelings and rights. i just dont get how any of them could be so oblivious to that.

Booyhoo Tue 08-Jan-13 18:53:11

i mean i cant imagine if the same happened to one of them (yeah right!) they would just shrug it off as being inevitable. they would quite rightly feel abused, victimised, violated. how dont they get that she's human?

StuntGirl Tue 08-Jan-13 18:57:56

I watched about 90 seconds of the video where one of them admits to raping her and couldn't stomach any more. SO many guilty people - the other students, the teachers, the law enforcement...this wasn't a crime just committed by a handful of sick individuals but one perpetrated by an entire school, and entire legal department...there just aren't words to adequately describe it sad

PiccadillyCervix Tue 08-Jan-13 19:00:06

I thought that as well blueemerald

Booyhoo Tue 08-Jan-13 19:11:03

i havent seen the footage as dcs are here but will later if i can stomach it.

OlivetheotherReindeer Tue 08-Jan-13 19:21:18

Heart breaking. Can't believe the prosecutor who decided not to charge them is the mother of one. Bumping to keep this active.

Nancy66 Tue 08-Jan-13 19:44:04

the whiff of corruption coming from this is overwhelming.

That poor girl. The picture of her unconcious, being lugged about like a piece of meat is truly horrific.

EllenParsons Tue 08-Jan-13 19:44:05

The whole thing is so so sickening. That video is shocking. Unbelievable that he has not been charged with anything. One of my best friends is American and has a friend who was gang raped by a frat in a situation a bit like this. It is sadly too common. Makes me so angry sad

lovelyladuree Tue 08-Jan-13 19:48:36

Research reveals this to be the biggest internet hoax to reach these shores this year. Media students who took things too far. Stand down everyone. You have been fooled about two weeks after the USA

Nancy66 Tue 08-Jan-13 19:53:13

eh? it's a hoax?

PurityBrown Tue 08-Jan-13 19:53:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Tue 08-Jan-13 19:53:40

If it's a hoax, why are @Anonymous still tweeting about it?

Do you have proof lovelyladuree

Flatbread Tue 08-Jan-13 19:57:43
OldLadyKnowsNothing Tue 08-Jan-13 19:59:53
Nancy66 Tue 08-Jan-13 20:00:28

websites for:

The Guardian

The atlantic

New York Daily News

CBS news

have all done updates on the case in recent hours - no mention of a hoax. Would be pretty easy to confirm considering many accused have been named and two supposedly charged

blueemerald Tue 08-Jan-13 20:00:58

The story has been added to/updated on the Guardian website in the last 20 mins, The New York Daily News website in the last 3 hours and USA Today website in the last 4 hours. I'll be very surprised if it's a hoax.

Loislane78 Tue 08-Jan-13 20:19:31

Just saw on the BBC website that 3 of the accused rapists in the India case have pleaded not guilty.

Makes me question what's a fitting punishment for these EVIL bastards.

buzzgirly Tue 08-Jan-13 20:40:15

This is absolutely atrocious. That poor, poor girl - how will she get over this. The level of corruption is astounding. I truly don't understand why our societies worship people whose main skill is kicking a bloody ball, and using it to justify their awful behaviour.

greenplastictrees Tue 08-Jan-13 20:56:11

I am horrified by that. Absolutely awful.

BornInACrossFireHurricane Tue 08-Jan-13 21:00:46

Fucking hell.

That poor girl.

I am so angry. There obviously needs to be a more fitting punishment for rapists, in my opinion

nevertoooldforindie Tue 08-Jan-13 21:02:00

Bump. No punishment good enough

Flatbread Tue 08-Jan-13 21:02:09

I read this interview with anon - most chilling is that there seem to have been Rape crews from 1975 in the town. What a perverted culture!

PiccadillyCervix Tue 08-Jan-13 21:38:18

That huffpost article was fascinating. You can really see the potential for good the internet has, by keeping politicians and others in power in check.despite the horrors (like using this poor girl's rape as something to poke fun of on social media sites|)

Fakebook Tue 08-Jan-13 21:41:29

I'm absolutely horrified and disgusted. I hope those petitions actually help though. It seems these animals think they're invincible.

Bobyan Tue 08-Jan-13 21:49:33

So much for being a hoax

I'm disgusted.

fuzzypicklehead Tue 08-Jan-13 22:01:24

I just can't believe somebody didn't DO something! People saw her being carried around for hours and nobody intervened.

LoopsInHoops Wed 09-Jan-13 00:55:26

Wouldn't it just be convenient for the families of the perpetrators, eg. the prosecuting attorney mother) if they were able to get people to believe it was a hoax? Very convenient indeed.

5madthings Wed 09-Jan-13 01:07:35

I read about this a week or so ago on fb and was horrified and that was without all the details. It beggars belief that people can do this and how the fuck they thought they could cover it up/pretend it didnt happen.

I really hope the girl involved gets proper justice. The people involved should be fucking ashamef and i dont mean just the rapists but the bloody adults thar tried to make out it was a 'teen prank' etc.

BratinghamPalace Wed 09-Jan-13 04:58:24

I do not understand why India got so much coverage and this did not. I also think that if those boys were black they would be in prison by now. I am finding it really hard to process this. Are they the future? All the people who saw this and did nothing. Are they really the future? That poor child.

sarahlundssweater Wed 09-Jan-13 05:55:55

Brat One of the accused, due to stand trail on Feb 13, IS black.

sarahlundssweater Wed 09-Jan-13 05:56:39

trial not trail.

MadCap Wed 09-Jan-13 07:52:47

Ignore Lovely, based on his/her posts over the last day or two, he lives under a bridge at worst or is a misongynist at best.

Patchouli Wed 09-Jan-13 09:20:02

Just horrifying.
how do these people look themselves in the mirror/
Not just the attackers but the lawyer mom, sheriff etc

Thankyou to Anonymous.

Locketjuice Wed 09-Jan-13 09:32:05

Fucking disgusting!
The boys all deserve to be hung up and tortured along with every wanka that helped hide the evidence!

Left on her parents lawn? How bloody awful, by only has their 16 year old daughter been killed in the most awful way they have to see her in that state and will taunt their minds with that image!

Horrifying to think these small town coverups, Daddy's an attorney situations are still rife.

I didn't watch the footage of the boy talking about it but what kind of parent can excuse that so Junior can go on to college. What kind of mentality is bred in that place that young girls are just treated like cattle to abuse?

It turns out that the lawyer representing the victim is close friends with the sheriff. I really doubt that this girl and her family will get proper justice angry sad

Hattifattner Wed 09-Jan-13 09:43:22

YOu have to hope that now the worlds media is all over the case, a neutral group of attorneys, judges etc will be appointed. I believe a petition has been raised to have the men charged as adults not juveniles. Good. Let us hope that justice can be seen to be done.

imogengladhart Wed 09-Jan-13 09:47:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KhallDrogo Wed 09-Jan-13 10:02:29

i cant process that video of that hideous boy laughing about the girl being raped/pissed on/'dead'

i dont understand at all

is he a psychopath then?

how do a group of boys/men think gang rape is a way to spend some does that arise?

their parents really fucked up huh?

locket she wasn't killed, she is alive.

This is disgusting, I so hope this girl can be given justice, why doesn't she get a lawyer from out of town? That place is so corrupted sad

I can't see the video on my phone, I've read through everything else (its taken me all morning!) I feel sorry for our children sad it seems so many people accept this as ok!

Abitwobblynow Wed 09-Jan-13 10:20:50

"how do a group of boys/men think gang rape is a way to spend some does that arise?"

From porn. This is the only sex these kids know and are shaped by: getting off on women being objects and raped, and it being shown that they love it. That little 'party' sounds so like a porn film!

Lundy Bancroft talks about this, what porn is doing to shape abusive attitudes towards women.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Wed 09-Jan-13 10:25:39

And still people, including women using this site, will defend porn as being ok sad

KhallDrogo Wed 09-Jan-13 10:40:32

is it ariel??

I find it difficult to accept that is the full explanation confused sad

i keep wondering about the mum of that boy...what she must be thinking/feeling....

But it is also their parents, teachers, the community as a whole. If this event is part of a wider set of events dating back to the 60's and 70's as anonymous are suggesting, to blame this solely on porn is wrong.

KhallDrogo Wed 09-Jan-13 10:41:25

i am not defending porn by the way....just find it hard to accept that it can turn young adults into this..

KhallDrogo Wed 09-Jan-13 10:45:08

but yes...where else would they get the idea if not from porn??

And at the same time I do not think this thread is the right place for a discussion about porn because it will turn into a bunfight.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Wed 09-Jan-13 10:48:44

Of course it's not the full explanation! No way is it nearly the full explanation. There are loads of worrying factors at play here. But these young men, and young men round the world, now have unprecedented access to hardcore, violent, limitless pornography. The fact that their coach allowed them to watch it in his company would have helped sanction this kind of sickening behaviour in their tiny little minds.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 10:55:00

i do agree with ariel. this is the result of porn making sexual objects of women. it completely dehumanises them. portrays them as only good for one thing so much so that a conscious woman isn't necessary. she isn't required to think or speak, just be penis receptacle. that's what it boils down to for these men. women are not human. they are their for the use of men, however they please.

Abitwobblynow Wed 09-Jan-13 10:55:19

There are some things the West a completely asleep over.

I think we are in denial at how much porn our children look at, at what age they are starting to be shown it, and how much it shapes their sexuality.

Lundy Bancroft: 'Abuse is the product of a mentality that excuses and condones bullying and exploitation, that promotes superiority and disrespect, and that casts responsibility on to the oppressed.

... [pornography] can function as training manuals for abusers, whether they intend to or not, teaching that women are unworthy of respect and valuable only as sex objects for men... images showing the abuse of both women and children as sexy, sometimes including presentation of rape as erotic. The harm to teens from looking at pornography has little to do with its sexual explicitness and everything to do with the attitudes it teaches toward women, relationships, sexual assault, and abuse. Spend some time looking at pornography yourself ... and think about the messages it is sending to young people and especially to boys.'

If you read the scenario, those boys were re-enacting something. That sort of behaviour does not come out of thin air.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 10:55:20


imogengladhart Wed 09-Jan-13 10:57:12

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MsVestibule Wed 09-Jan-13 11:16:31

I had not even heard of the case until I read this thread - it certainly hasn't been widely reported in the British media. I have sent the following message to the BBC; I'll let you know if I receive a reply:

Why, when you have given so much coverage of the rape and murder of the student in Delhi, have you not even given a mention to the gang rape of a 16 year old girl by some members of the school football team in Steubenville, Ohio, and far more importantly (and newsworthy), the subsequent cover up by the authorities?

The NY times has covered it, there is a lot of evidence that it did happen, and I can't believe the BBC would choose to omit this story.

I do understand that there are a lot of news stories to cover - perhaps one gang rape story in a month is enough for you?

Patchouli Wed 09-Jan-13 11:22:30

She wasn't killed locket.
The idiot in the video means dead as in 'dead to the world'.
Apparently she found out she'd been raped the same as everyone else: through facebook/twitter the next day.

Chilling that she's lying outside during that clip.

KhallDrogo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:28:38

Patchouli I got the impression from watching the video, that he actually thought she was dead, rather than it being a figure of speech. He compared her 'deadness' to lots of actually dead people.

So he could have (at that point in time) actually believed her to be dead? I still haven't seen the video, will look on the laptop when I get home.

imogengladhart Wed 09-Jan-13 11:35:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Patchouli Wed 09-Jan-13 11:36:25

I think he just meant 'out of it'.

PoppyAmex Wed 09-Jan-13 11:39:32

The BBC silence on this is deafening


KhallDrogo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:52:48

i facebooked that poppy what can we do about the BBC not covering it?

msvestible what contact did you use for BBC? is it just a general email address?

StuntGirl Wed 09-Jan-13 11:53:18

I also interpreted it to mean 'dead to the world'. One assumes because they apparently drugged her enough to be that way hmm

Patchouli Wed 09-Jan-13 11:55:47

...and that a couple of them (who weren't happy) said it was rape, went to check on her and said 'won't she feel it when she wakes up?'

KhallDrogo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:57:26

and I think he replies along the lines of 'she aint waking up...'?? (not sure though, really cant bring myself to watch it again)

MsVestibule Wed 09-Jan-13 12:02:06

KhallDrogo I just went onto the BBC news website, clicked on Contact and it gives you a boxes to put your name, email address and details of why you're contacting them.

I very, very rarely contact organisations about things, (although perhaps I should) but I'm outraged that this cover up can go on in a supposedly developed country without it being massive news.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:13:26

not sure if it has been mentioned but was there drug use amongst the attackers? the whole thing of thinking she was dead but not reacting to that strikes me as if some of them must have been in drugged state. surely most 16 year olds would shit a brick if they thought someone had actually died in their presence? (as a result of them drugging her!)

PoppyAmex Wed 09-Jan-13 12:38:45

Khall I just did exactly the same as MsVestibule and queried BBC - how can they ignore news that have been wildly broadcasted by credible news outlets and the Daily Fail ?

PoppyAmex Wed 09-Jan-13 12:42:18

Apparently one of the rapists has confessed and apologised during the demonstrations.

So sorry for the DM link here

amillionyears Wed 09-Jan-13 12:46:25

I have seen several true films about sports stars and their team mates, coaches and communities in the USA who all try and massively cover up this sort of thing up.
It has been going on in the USA since at least the 70's as far as I know.
Even when the sport stars are found guilty, there are still huge amounts of people who are on the side of the sports stars.
Absolutely awful.

Nancy66 Wed 09-Jan-13 12:50:21

Poppy - that isn't accurate. he has apologised for what he said on the video, he hasn't confessed to anything

MiniTheMinx Wed 09-Jan-13 12:57:39

I started watching the video, I had to give up, so sickening but did he actually confess to his raping the girl.

What I don't understand, is his lawyer has said he turned up when they were carrying the girl out. If that is the case, how come he knew so much about it?

He's quit college.....good, I hope it blights his life. As for what his mother thinks, if he was mine, I'd dig a hole and put him in it.

KhallDrogo Wed 09-Jan-13 13:00:23

angry emphasis so much on how his life is dare he

KhallDrogo Wed 09-Jan-13 13:01:27

and he clearly isnt sorry...if he is now trying to say he didnt rape her

Flatbread Wed 09-Jan-13 13:08:45

I don't understand why the sheriff is adamant there will be no more arrests?

And who decided that three of the men would get immunity for turning witness? Why the hell aren't they facing jail?

Nancy66 Wed 09-Jan-13 13:09:11

my worry with this is that a good lawyer will be able to argue that trial by media and internet has prejudiced the case.

LoopsInHoops Wed 09-Jan-13 13:15:18

Notice that DM article states that she was drunk not that she had been drugged. angry

I am making a complaint to DM about that.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 13:16:26

so basically if they all turn 'witness' they would all be entitled to immunity according to that logic. who are they setting up to take the fall for it? the one with the parents who aren't in the PTA?

imogengladhart Wed 09-Jan-13 13:45:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

5madthings Wed 09-Jan-13 13:47:45

I actually find the actions by the adults more scary than the rapists in some ways, not that I in anyway condone them. Their actions are vile but I think society needs to look at their actions that has shaped these boys iyswim? Is pirn culture and the lack of decent role models, the coaches watched porn WITH therm etc. The adults that are condonung it as 'teen pranks' saying the girl is partly responsible etc. These adults who should ensure justice is done and yet instead are rallying around to protect the rapists is appalling and really horrifying.

How can we expect teens to grow up with respect for each other and for women when the adults in this situation are acting do despicibly?!

LoopsInHoops Wed 09-Jan-13 13:57:33

"Nancy66 Wed 09-Jan-13 13:09:11

my worry with this is that a good lawyer will be able to argue that trial by media and internet has prejudiced the case."

No point in worrying about that if they won't even bother to prosecute them.

PoppyAmex Wed 09-Jan-13 13:57:48

Nancy you're right, I actually thought he was apologising for the events, not the video. That's even worse.

The footage is horrendous, especially when one of the boys asks "how would you feel if that was your daughter?" and he giggles and says "I wouldn't care". The Anonymous Org called it well when they described him as a sociopath.

oldraver Wed 09-Jan-13 14:00:53

I noticed the 'she was so drunk'... what evidence is there for this ?

I couldn't really make out much of what he said amongst all the drugged up laughing, though did hear him something along the lines of "if it were my daughter I'd want her/she'd be better off dead" *

I really hope someone chops this guys balls off so he never gets to have a daughter **

* I couldn't quite make the actual words out so except my version might not be accurate

** I feel no remorse for wishing this on him

Nancy66 Wed 09-Jan-13 14:09:03

I am guessing that it's easy to clarify that she was drunk as there will have been witnesses who saw her drinking. either at the parties or in the bar earlier on.

I imagine it's impossible to prove she was drugged since her blood/urine was not tested in time.

LoopsInHoops Wed 09-Jan-13 14:15:41

Nancy, you're a DM journo, am I right? Can you explain to me the poor article in the DM on the issue? Why has it done no more than re-cover the attorney of the Nodianos man and the sherrif's statement? The article is so bland and smacks of bias.

I suppose I'm asking if you can tell me why the general coverage (BBC, Guardian etc. as well as DM) has been so flimsy. Any thoughts?

Her being drunk is not an issue, though.

If she were drunk enough to be unable to consent, then they are at fault. It seems clear enough this is the case!

LoopsInHoops Wed 09-Jan-13 14:18:32

It's an issue because idiots people are claiming that she was so drunk that in some fucking stupid and bullshit way she was to blame for what happened. Obviously that couldn't be the case whatever her actions, but it's an important difference in the way it is portrayed by the media to the masses I think.

imogengladhart Wed 09-Jan-13 14:22:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

oldraver Wed 09-Jan-13 14:23:07

Yes her being drunk or not isnt the issue.... but it has been reported she was drunk when there doesnt seem to be any evidence of this so why is the DM stating she was drunk .....and maybe I'm being overly critical but its the implication ....oh she was drunk, which is so often wheeled out IYSWIM ?

Yes, I see you're right loops. Which makes me furious about the media and aboutb stupid assumptions, poor girl.

It is horrific that there is any attempt to shift blame here.

oldraver Wed 09-Jan-13 14:24:26

Yes Loops explained it in the way I was thinking

old - that's exactly my suspicion. They are feeling the need to say this to excuse her rapists. Rape myths 101.

This is why it is so awful when people say 'but maybe she was drunk' - she clearly was not in a state to consent, no matter why.

Flatbread Wed 09-Jan-13 14:25:06

Anon claims that she was given a 'roofie'. I guess that is the colloquial for a date rape drug?

The claim they know who gave it and where the drugs are sourced.

This whole thing is so sickening on so many levels The awful monsters, the adults covering up for them. And the racial element of the black guy getting arrested while the white guys who filmed it, probably raped her too and had it happen in their house/ car getting away with impunity!

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 14:37:58

wasn't she drugged soon after she got into the car after being picked up from some volleyball thing? i cant imagine she had much to drink in that space of time. well even if she had it wouldn't matter. she didn't consent.

loopylou6 Wed 09-Jan-13 14:40:40

sad Oh god, first I'd heard of this. I'm absolutely disgusted, words fail me.

Do you think we can all do something about this? Get wider coverage in the hope that the right people are forced to take notice?

Power of mumsnet?

Flatbread Wed 09-Jan-13 14:41:22

Booyhoo that is what I read too.

I agree that it shouldn't matter, but it is a bit hmm that DM states that she was drunk without mentioning the allegation that she was drugged.

Nancy66 Wed 09-Jan-13 14:44:55

Loops - to answer your question: because it's a foreign story and nobody died.

However, as the story gathers pace and develops, I think the UK media will pick up on it more - it's one that (I think) the Sunday papers may go for as it's a story that in its current state merits a lengthy reportage style feature which daily papers don't have the space or manpower for.

Backtobedlam Wed 09-Jan-13 14:46:00

Just absolutely sickening. How on earth can things like this go on and then to cover it up?! It's shocking, and that poor poor girl, its heartbreaking.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 14:48:31

i was thinking about this last night and i cant work out whether it's better for her that she cant remember any of it or not. for lots of reasons. sad cant imagine what she is going through.

5madthings Wed 09-Jan-13 15:00:00

I can't get my head around it, that it happened and seemingly was so public, filmed etc and the cover up of it is just so horrific.

boot also agree I don't know if its better she can't remember either, but presumably she has read of and seen some of the videos.

As the mum if four boys I am horrified by the boys behaviour and as the mum of a girl its frankly terrifying.

The whole thing is appalling and depressing sad

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 15:06:57

yes she will have read and heard so much but wont know (even with flashbacks- are they real or are they what her brain has pieced together from what she's heard?) whether it happened or not. none of the attackers are ever going to admit to everything. witnesses most likely wont have seen everything that happened. the only real evidence has been tampered with by the police. all she knows is that she got into a car and woke up the next morning on her front lawn. she's not even a witness to the rapes in the sense that she cant say who did what or who said what etc. as much as i'm glad she wasn't conscious and aware of the pain and abuse, i think if i was in her shoes, i would find it extremely difficult not knowing what had been done to me.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 15:07:56

sorry, i t reads like i'm disagreeing with you. i'm not, more really just elaborating on my own thought process.

PiccadillyCervix Wed 09-Jan-13 15:09:59

Agree that it doesn't matter a bti f she WAS drunk but also think it highly unliekly that she could have gotten that drunk straight away that she would be fully passed out and be able to be dragged to different parties and raped on multiple occasions with out waking.. Without the boys actually beliving she was dead. IN which case presumably they would stop draggng her around.

Sounds like they drugged her and it all happened as they planned.

There would have been other girls at the party including the friend. How could they see it and not call the police?

I hope all the boys who raped her get charged as adults because there is no hope for them, There really isn't they won't ever be "human" as far as I am concerned and locking them away for as long as possible is the only thing they can do for the women of that town. But I also hope all the fuckin adults who were there get charged as accessories and that all the piece of shit teenagers there watching and videoing go down too

And I hope the adults who let her down after the fact get charged for corruption and that they end up with out their homes and livelihoods. It's their money and their power that has kept them off the firing line so I hope they are stripped of it.

5madthings Wed 09-Jan-13 15:16:58

Yes I agree Piccadilly but I read something about how they don't have any laws/statute to cover charging many who witnessed it/filmed it and as such their hands are tied.

I think it needs to be taken over by an out of state body, a group that are not involved, have no prejudice etc. How is there ever going to be a proper case and trial otherwise? Its a bloody shambles.

5madthings Wed 09-Jan-13 15:18:56

And I don't read it as you disagreeing bio more elaborating and articulating the situation.

How you would ever begin to start to put your life back together and move forward after this I don't know sad

PiccadillyCervix Wed 09-Jan-13 15:19:44

Yeah, I don't know how it will work but it should be taken over by someone who is not involved. I don't know if the FBI would be able to take over? I'm American but I can't think of anything similar enough like this to know what they would do?

I imagine if the revolting piece of shit rapists do go to trial though it will be out of area.. you know so they get a "fair" trial.

KhallDrogo Wed 09-Jan-13 15:24:51


i agree...this needs to be more widely reported. I dont know anything about media/lobbying/campaigns....does anyone here know how we can put pressure on to publicise this more??

5madthings Wed 09-Jan-13 15:25:21

Piccadilly out of state trial may help in that those judging won't be friends/acquantainces of the boys. I suspect many in the area are somehow known to the accused? And as such may follow the thinking of 'they can't have done it' or that it was 'tern pranks gone wrong' I would hope that people not involved or living in the area would be able to have a more objective vue rather than closing ranks and protecting their Owen and also they won't be wanting to protect the reputation of the area, the school, etc?

God knows, it def needs to be taken over by an organization not so closely linked. The prosecuted is the MOTHER of a boy who was involved? I mean how the fuck can that be allowed?!!

5madthings Wed 09-Jan-13 15:27:00

khall I don't know but was thinking of something like the 'I believe you campaign' that got a lot of publicity so something like that but aimed at the media to get them to cover the story?

Flatbread Wed 09-Jan-13 15:30:34

read something about how they don't have any laws/statute to cover charging many who witnessed it/filmed it and as such their hands are tied

I would suspect it is more a case of they don't want to, rather than they can't. They could charge them with aiding and abetting a crime.

It is interesting that you can be apprehended for just talking about potentially committing a terrorist act.

But actively filming, laughing, watching a rape is apparently ok.

I think it is a case of having contempt for women and not valuing us and our bodies.

OlivetheotherReindeer Wed 09-Jan-13 15:32:55

Surely to god, the collective power of mumsnet can at least shine a light on this, great idea 5 mad things, I just don't know how to start it off.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 15:35:50

one thing i know for sure with this case, the number of people charged/sentenced will in no way reflect the number of people who are guilty of some part in this. she wont have justice. sad

5madthings Wed 09-Jan-13 15:37:40

flat bread it was in a link earlier in this thread, but yes I think there must be some laws they could use.

A campaign would be good but not sure how much difference it would maker. There are links on this thread to petitions that we can all sign, publicising those would be a start.

Flatbread Wed 09-Jan-13 15:39:45


I hope if the Feds get involved and more people are arrested. That awful sheriff and coach, her exbf, the guy(s) who filmed it and the monster on the video ought to rot in jail their whole lives.

It seems anon is threatening to make life difficult for all those involved. I do hope they can carry it through, if the justice system fails.

loopylou6 Wed 09-Jan-13 15:44:30

Ok. How about we en masse email BBC? David Cameron? Altho not sure he'd be bothered. We need to kick up a fuss and force people to take notice of this.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 15:44:41

are feds = FBI? is it likely they would be involved with this?

loopylou6 Wed 09-Jan-13 15:46:50

[[ BBC]]

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 15:47:15

yes loopy, i think we need to catch more MNers tbh though. i'm surprised at how little (it is an 8 page thread but mostly the same posters) response this has had. is there a good source i could link to on FB? i googled but not sure which sources are reliable/unbiased/(unDM)

loopylou6 Wed 09-Jan-13 15:47:42


5madthings Wed 09-Jan-13 15:48:23

Should put something in chat? I noticed there was a thread in 'in the news' and it was largely ignored sad

loopylou6 Wed 09-Jan-13 15:49:45

I'm not sure, do you mean sharing this on fb? We could start a new thread asking for help from mnetters, then press the 'recommend to fb' button at the top? confused

loopylou6 Wed 09-Jan-13 15:52:13

Yes 5, I think a new thread in chat would be a good start, that way we know if many of us want to help. We best be careful with the title tho incase the more vulnerable of us read it and brings back bad memories.

loopylou6 Wed 09-Jan-13 15:53:16

Loops, would you like to start the thread?

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 15:55:09

yes a new thread would be a good idea i think. i was also looking for a link i can put on my own fb page to create a bit more awareness. no-one is talking about this in RL.

definitley need a trigger warning in the title for new thread.

5madthings Wed 09-Jan-13 15:55:17

Yes thread in chat, link to fb and try and get it in active convos etc.

EllenParsons Wed 09-Jan-13 15:56:18

I'm also surprised how relatively little coverage this story has got in the uk. I have been following it in the American media because I am always checking gawker and read a few American papers... But I had not realised that it had been completely ignored by the bcc. Bizarre and not right. The whole thing stinks and I can't believe the boy in the video has the audacity to even talk about how HIS life is ruined (DM article) when he has shown utter contempt for other human lives like that of the 16 year old girl.

The whole thing just makes me so angry.

EllenParsons Wed 09-Jan-13 15:58:31

BBC not bcc - autocorrect

loopylou6 Wed 09-Jan-13 16:04:28

Boo, I've just put the link on my Facebook page, if you click the link in the OP, you're able to share the page.

ParsingFancy Wed 09-Jan-13 16:04:47

Getting on thread so I can follow any suggestions. Thank you for flagging this, I knew nothing till this thread.

Disgraceful that this isn't being covered by UK media - especially after what's happening in India.

That sounds like I'm more upset by the lack of media coverage than by the assault. I'm not. But the behaviour of the adults and now the media goes a long way to explain how the assault could take place.

Nancy66 Wed 09-Jan-13 16:06:50

this is nothing to do with the UK government though.

You wouldn't expect Obama to get involved with a crime that happened/was covered up in the Uk unless it directly affected US citizens.

EllenParsons Wed 09-Jan-13 16:11:09

Nancy, I don't think anyone is expecting uk gov to get involved? Just simply expecting it to be covered as it is an important news story

loopylou6 Wed 09-Jan-13 16:11:20

You're a journo Nancy, what do you suggest on getting this story out there?

Thistledew Wed 09-Jan-13 16:12:50

Unfortunately, this sort of behaviour is not new, is not unique, and is not something that happens just in other countries. Similar incidents happen to thousands of children, predominantly girls but some boys too, every year in the UK.

If you have a stomach for it, follow the links on the Children's Commissioner's website to the - CSEGG Inquiry Interim Report - November 2012 and - University of Bedfordshire - Sexual violence in gangs - Interim findings - November 2012.

The forward to the Interim Report quotes:

"Sexual exploitation is a curious term, for it runs the risk of glossing over the reality of what is done to children.
The reality is that each year thousands of children in England are raped and abused from as young as 11 years by people seeking to humiliate, violate and control them and the impact on their lives is often devastating.
This report, coming at the end of the first year of this Inquiry into the sexual exploitation of children in gangs and groups, has uncovered for the first time the extent to which children in England are being sexually exploited. We publish the number of known victims over a set period of time but can say with certainty that our figures are an undercounting of the true scale of this form of abuse. We know that because, although many agencies and organisations responded to our request for information and data, there were some notable gaps, with a few local authorities failing to do so. Furthermore, we know that children are sexually exploited in contexts other than in gangs and groups, including by lone perpetrators. Evidence about those children is not included in this report.
During the course of this Inquiry we have heard from young people who have been raped in the most unbearable ways. These have included children who have been abducted, trafficked, beaten and threatened after being drawn into a web of sexual violence by promises of love and others who have suffered in silence for years as they are casually and routinely raped by the boys in their neighbourhoods – as they come out of school, as they walk to the shops, as they play in their local park."

It seems that it is easier to turn a blind eye to why this sort of thing is an every day occurrence, rather than to ask hard questions about why it is so prevalent in our society.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 16:13:39

thanks loopy.

Thistledew Wed 09-Jan-13 16:13:51

Sorry, the second two links don't work, but if you follow the first link you will find the reports on the right hand side of the page, and they will open directly into PDFs.

Nancy66 Wed 09-Jan-13 16:18:05

the story is being covered.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 16:20:22

forgive my ignorance but how do i share that on fb from the article? i have been able to log in through my fb to leave a comment under it but i cant see how to share it on fb.

LoopsInHoops Wed 09-Jan-13 16:20:57

Sorry, been away from computer.

What is hoped to be achieved? Awareness? Greater media coverage? International involvement? A mass sign-up to Anonymous? Petition signing? That needs to be decided really before a new thread IMO.

LoopsInHoops Wed 09-Jan-13 16:22:14

Boo - copy the url (www.bit) and paste to where it say something like 'Booyhoo, hoe you doin'?'

loopylou6 Wed 09-Jan-13 16:25:21

I think extra media coverage, public outcry that the police cannot ignore. There is a video of him admitting to rape, how can he be allowed to get away with this?

LoopsInHoops Wed 09-Jan-13 16:31:43

I'm struggling for time right now, so please go ahead and start a new thread, loopy. smile

loopylou6 Wed 09-Jan-13 16:50:22


I really hope we could help somehow, this story has really angered and saddened me.

LoopsInHoops Wed 09-Jan-13 16:52:39

Thanks loopy smile Can you link it please?

loopylou6 Wed 09-Jan-13 16:59:18

No problem. here

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 17:24:54

thank you loops.

(i'm getting confused with loopy and loops grin)

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