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Porn porn pissing porn!

(295 Posts)
Lucy411 Mon 07-Jan-13 15:33:18

Found porn for the 10th time on my partners phone
I have previously broken up with him over it I really can't describe my hate for it
He knows my reaction when I find it he always promises it will stop etc and this time I really don't think I can take him back
I have a 11 mo and I'm 10 weeks pregnant he knew that carrying on would mean him being kicked out and me having baby on my own yet still done it and played the its old trick then admits it hours later

So confused what to do and upset at his disrespect sad

Everythingwillbeok Mon 07-Jan-13 15:37:48

Oh it's a tricky one with you having a young child and being pregnant,would you be able to cope alone? Do you feel that strongly that you would end it?

Lucy411 Mon 07-Jan-13 15:45:29

I have ended it he's at his parents but wants to come back I love him but can't take his com

Lucy411 Mon 07-Jan-13 15:46:16

Complete disrespect for the fact I really hate it :/

MadamFolly Mon 07-Jan-13 15:48:53

Is it particularly horrid porn that you object to the content or is it porn in general you object to? Even soft porn or erotic fiction?

He may not know precisely what it is you are getting upset about e.g. he may think you are jealous of him looking at other women rather than being morally offended for example.

If it is really and truly a deal breaker for you then I think you will have to leave since he has lied about stopping and I think is unlikely to stop altogether.

Would you be more comfortable with him reading erotic literature or watching soft porn? Maybe you could find something you like together.

I guess you have to weigh up how important this issue is to you compared to how much you love him and want to keep your family together. Is this the only issue you have with him or does he lie about other things?

Everythingwillbeok Mon 07-Jan-13 15:50:11

It's a tough one I also feel like you that's is degrading and I couldn't live with a man who was obsessed with it either.

He doesn't give a shit how you feel then does he? If you have given him so many chances and still he can't stop.

InNeedOfBrandy Mon 07-Jan-13 15:54:50

I don't have a problem with porn tbh, think its an over reaction to end a relationship over it unless it was an addiction. I know there's the exploit argument against it which I agree with but I wouldn't expect anyone to have the same views as me.

You would seriously 'kick him out' because you went mooching through his phone and found something you didn't like?

Can you even kick him out, whos name is the house under?

Lucy411 Mon 07-Jan-13 15:56:43

The whole idea of it, I personally think that unless its a couple thing and both are comfortable with it then when in a relationship it shouldn't cross your mind let alone lie about it to such extremes
I think its only this... I think/hope!

He's killed the trust and I would understand more if we didn't have sex but we do! Anything from 4-10 a week!
If anything I should be tryin to find a release he only lasts 2 minutes at the most but I have never mentioned it to him so never made it a big deal as dont want to embarrass him yet he makes me feel like this?

Wanker... Literally!

Lucy411 Mon 07-Jan-13 15:58:05

And house is mine

HollyTheHedgehog Mon 07-Jan-13 15:58:12

So long as it was not illegal or 'weird' porn Id seriously consider my priorities.

I dont think I could have my children endure a break up and be the product of a spilt family just because I didnt like porn.

But thats just me.

MadamFolly Mon 07-Jan-13 15:58:31

Does he have a very high sex drive?

Could he have a hormone problem?

Well to be honest, you are being unreasonable if you think that just because you don't like it, it shouldn't cross his mind. He lies about it because he knows you make a big deal about it.

madame talks a lot of sense.....is there any sort of compromise you could make? Could you not look at soft porn together?

Lucy411 Mon 07-Jan-13 15:59:14

I think it is otherwise it would be easy to stop.. He wouldn't risk his family life etc for it unless he was surely?

InNeedOfBrandy Mon 07-Jan-13 15:59:49

He's lying because of your attitude of you must do what I say or your leaving.

ChaoticintheNewYear Mon 07-Jan-13 16:00:27

The porn is a red herring really. The OP has made her feeling clear in the past including having ended the relationship previously due to his refusal to stop and yet still he continues to do something that he knows upsets her. It doesn't really matter what it is the fact remains he puts the porn, in this case, ahead of her.

WorraLiberty England Mon 07-Jan-13 16:01:33

You're being unrealistic to think it shouldn't cross someone's mind.

You obviously feel very strongly about it and therefore you think you should be able to tell your DH what to do. He clearly feels differently.

I suppose that's something you two will have to give and take about unless you want to stay permanently split.

But as an aside, not everyone watches porn because the're not getting enough sex...and not everyone wanks every time they watch it.

Some people just like watching porn films, the same way others like watching something that they enjoy.

Can you legally kick him out?

ILoveTIFFANY Mon 07-Jan-13 16:01:53

Hold on... How will you support 2 children and continue to pay for your house?

allthegoodnamesweretaken Mon 07-Jan-13 16:02:39

I'd kick DH out for watching porn too and he knows it. Luckily he agrees with me and thinks it's vile.

We watched an awful, sad documentary called hardcore once, which was about a young woman who was taken to LA to be a porn star, she was sold a very glamorous lifestyle where she would be in control and make lots of money. However as the doc went on she was horribly exploited, bullied and controlled. Towards the end she is actually raped on camera by an 'agent', who then proceeds to suffocate her with his penis during filming without her prior knowledge or consent. When she says she no longer wants to film she is shouted at and bullied by porn boss until she agrees. Thankfully at this point the camera crew finally wise up and rescue her.

Maybe if he watched something like that, which shows the reality of porn he might come across to your way of thinking?

If dh told me to stop me doing something based on the fact he didn't like it I would tell him to shove it, I would never dream of telling dh what to do either.

I think if you finish with him over this then you probably don't really think that much of the relationship anyway so its maybe no bad thing to end it.

WorraLiberty England Mon 07-Jan-13 16:05:09

And I would say that him watching it privately on his own phone is a compromise he has made.

He's not forcing you to sit and watch it with him on the family TV and he's not rubbing your face in it.

What compromise have you made?

Lucy411 Mon 07-Jan-13 16:05:58

Moneys not the issue and he wouldn't stay here as I have the baby 24.7 and its his home.

MiniTheMinx Mon 07-Jan-13 16:07:45

Oh, all these "liberal Minded" people who defend porn will tell you OP that you are being unreasonable.

You are not, you have stated your terms 10 times, he chose to break the terms.

Lucy411 Mon 07-Jan-13 16:08:18

And when we first met years ago i was a party girl like mad and did dabble in drugs he hates drugs as soon as he said that I never touched another one.

And I really don't think he will stop and I can't change my mind set on it

Lucy411 Mon 07-Jan-13 16:09:11

Guess it is the deal breaker sad

StuntGirl Mon 07-Jan-13 16:09:38

I wouldn't and couldn't compromise on a moral issue I felt incedibly strongly about. Porn is one of them. If that's the deal breaker in the relationship, so be it.

I think you need to seriously think about this. The problem is that when you told him he wasnt "allowed" to look at porn anymore he should have said an outright no if he didnt agree. If the relationship is generally good, which I am assuming it is then imo this is an over reaction to some porn on his phone.

StuntGirl Mon 07-Jan-13 16:12:34

It's the wrong question to ask in AIBU because eveyone bases their answer on their own opinion. And if your opinion is that there's nothing wrong with porn then obviously you will never agree with someone for whom its a deal breaker, and if you care passionately about not using porn then you'll never understand why someone could tolerate or even like it.

Lucy411 Mon 07-Jan-13 16:13:45

I would honestly prefer him to have said no instead of I promise you it was stupid I'm sorry I regret it etc for me to trust him then happen again and again

Makes me wonder how much further would he go in terms of lying

Feminine Mon 07-Jan-13 16:17:12

What is he watching?

I wouldn't end a relationship for just 'any' porn. That is just me though maybe?

I'm sorry he broke your trust though.

WorraLiberty England Mon 07-Jan-13 16:18:30

I think a lot of people lie to keep the peace if they think the other person is being unreasonable to be hones...it can save a lot of arguments and tantrums.

You say it's a deal breaker and despite the fact he's doing it very discretely, it still bothers you.

So I guess you two will have to stay separated.

You say it makes you wonder how much further he would go in terms of lying, but he could be sitting there wondering how much further you'll go in terms of controlling what he does legally in private.

You can't compare it to drug taking...not only is it illegal but it can kill you.

Lucy411 Mon 07-Jan-13 16:18:46

Everything and anything!

WaspFactory Mon 07-Jan-13 16:19:42

YABU - if your still having regular sex, what's the problem? I would talk to him about only lasting 2 minutes though, does he bother to finish you off after?

MrsMcEnroe Mon 07-Jan-13 16:20:30

It is not unreasonable to dislike porn. (I loathe it - videos/photos that is). However, I would assume that it's more about the trust issue OP? - the fact that he's lied to you about using it? - is that what has caused you to break up with him at this point in your relationship?

MiniTheMinx Mon 07-Jan-13 16:22:25

I don't think it is an overreaction. I agree that no one has the right to demand anything of someone but I think it is natural to place expectations upon someone if you hope to have a long term relationship, could be trust, no porn, faithfulness, loyalty, etc,... otherwise where do you draw the line.

Lucy411 Mon 07-Jan-13 16:22:53

The drug thing I was young free single childless and we had just stated seeing each other I just knew he didn't like it so stopped and wouldn't dream of going behind his back its the morals in it not the actual 'thing'

And it's no way about control he can do what he likes when he likes he just says I'm off out etc no questions asked just porn I find degrading and makes me feel rubbish,unattractive to him unable to please him the more he does it the more he knocks my self confidence

StuntGirl Mon 07-Jan-13 16:22:54

But you're assuming the OP just doesn't like seeing it Worra. In fairness I'm also assuming, but I'm assuming she has a moral problem with porn. In which case he could be as discreet as he bloody well liked but I would still have a problem with the fact he used it.

Dahlen Mon 07-Jan-13 16:23:24

The fact that it's porn is a red herring.

The issue is OP has asked her DP to stop doing something that is a frivolity not a necessity or even a valid lifestyle choice (e.g. much-loved hobby important to sense of self) because it distresses her. Her P has chosen to carry on regardless and lied about it. It's dishonest, disrespectful and implies a totally untrustworthy character. Not ideal in a life partner.

I'd end it too.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Mon 07-Jan-13 16:25:11

Really you need to post in Relationships - AIBU isn't the place for this.

You have done the right thing, it doesn't matter whether it's porn or bee keeping - you've told him it's a deal breaker for you, he's agreed to stop doing it and made you promises. He's broken your trust over and over again and yes - if he'll do that over porn he'll do it over other things. Porn isn't the issue, the issue is that you cannot trust him. If he didn't agree with your stance on porn he had plenty of opportunities to discuss it with you - like and adult

I disagree with this red herring stuff. Nobody owns anyone...I am sure there are things that I do that DH doesn't particularly like but he does not have the right to forbid me to do it and vice versa.

Porn is the issue here. Some people dig it and some dont. If the OP and her DP can't find a compromise then it would seem that is that. My DH sometimes looks at porn but I couldnt care less........it's a very personal subject I think.

MiniTheMinx Mon 07-Jan-13 16:26:42

Worra, why are drugs so much worse than porn? <seriously though don't bother to explain> it just seems that you are undermining the OP. She has a right to expect someone she loves to uphold her trust, should she not have an opinion about pornography,

Should his right to use it trump her right to hold an opinion about it?

Blistory Mon 07-Jan-13 16:29:06

I would end a relationship over porn use. Total deal breaker for me and wouldn't want to be with a man who felt that it was normal.

I don't think you're being unreasonable given that he knew how you felt and had agreed to stop. Doesn't make the break up any easier.

Is there any chance that if you could ask him to put it into context and understand why you hate it, that he would agree to stop using it ? No one needs porn but the fact is that it is generally considered socially acceptable and he probably doesn't get why it's such a big deal for a lot of people.

lisac99 Mon 07-Jan-13 16:31:06

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable at all.

You set down some ‘ground rules’ which I’m assuming he agreed to? E.g. he said ‘That’s fine, I won’t look at porn’

When I have started new relationships – both my partner and I tend to establish ‘ground rules’ of what’s acceptable to us and what’s not. At this point, if we don’t agree with what the other is saying, I know we’re not compatible over intrinsic beliefs, so the relationship doesn't go any further.

The fact that your partner must have agreed to not look at porn and then did it – 10 times, suggests he has absolutely no respect for you whatsoever and despite the people on here saying ‘You’re overreacting’ that’s their opinion on porn and whilst they are entitled to it – The fact your partner agreed to NOT do something and then did it again, and again, and again despite knowing your feelings towards his actions doesn't suggest he really cares for your feelings at all.

The problem is – You’ve obviously discovered porn before and you took him back. Then you discovered it again, and took him back, therefore whilst you’ve been saying ‘This is unacceptable behaviour’, your actions are saying ‘I might be mad with you, however after a while I’ll forgive you and let you back’, therefore why would he assume anything would be different this time around? All he has to do is wait it out a few days and you’ll give in as that’s what he’s used to.

I personally wouldn’t be with someone like this as I had an ex partner who was obsessed with porn and like you, I forgave him, only for him to do exactly the same thing again. I had this ‘gut’ feeling he hadn’t respected my wishes and when confronted with the evidence, we split up – I wasn’t married to him and didn’t have children so the situation was much ‘easier’, than yours, however I don’t regret it for a second as it meant I wasn’t constantly worried about him looking at porn and ‘catching’ him at it.

If it’s a deal breaker to you (and it would be to me, too) then yes, you need to go through with it and find someone who actually does respect your wishes.

I’m sorry you’re going through this.

MadamFolly Mon 07-Jan-13 16:33:39

The OP does not have the right to insist that he stops doing anything.

However she does have the right to leave the relationship for any reason. And if this issue os important to her then so be it.

For example I would not be in a relationship with any person who joined the armed forces. If DP decided to join then I would not forbid him to, I would just leave. That is my right, and the OP has an equal right not to be with a person who is commiting acts she disagrees with on a moral level.

God, I hate this saying deal breaker....I married my DH, I didn't make a deal with him or give him ground rules.....but am intrigued, what sort of ground rules does one give their new DH? Thou Shalt not shag around? Thall shalt not ever do anything I don't like you doing? My mind is boggling confused

Proudnscary Mon 07-Jan-13 16:34:32

Putting aside the porn issue, I know what it's like to live with someone else's habit that you personally find intolerable. It's very very hard.

It erodes your feelings for them, you become obsessed with whether they are or aren't doing it.

So it's not really a case of 'I wouldn't leave my dh over looking at porn', it's the longterm impact of the lying and the suspicion and the feeling of not being understood or respected.

I'd never (well rarely) advocate LTB over anything less than abusive behaviours, and I wouldn't say it now. But OP you are NOT being stupid or overreacting. Your feelings are your feelings.

Dahlen Mon 07-Jan-13 16:35:29

Of course no one has the right to 'forbid' anyone to do anything, but in a loving, healthy relationship, certain behaviours that may be acceptable for an individual but have a detrimental effect on a partner are normally dispensed with out of love and consideration.

All of which is beside the point. He agreed to stop, then carried on anyway and lied about it.

MadCap Mon 07-Jan-13 16:37:18

I think MadameFolly has hit the nail on the head. No, the op can't forbid her dp from doing anything, but she is definitely not unreasonable for leaving the relationship if he's doing something she finds repugnant.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Mon 07-Jan-13 16:39:46

I agree Madam

Whilst op cannot enforce it, she can state that she is not comfortable with it and make him aware that its a deal breaker for her. If he cannot/will not give it up, then she has every right to tell him to leave.

Some may perceive it as a trivial reason for ending a relationship, but it would appear that to OP it is the equivalent of cheating.

Lucy411 Mon 07-Jan-13 16:41:30

Thank you all, I really have just got to keep going and not let him weave his way back.. Again.

I love him to death. I really do but the lying and the no trust is really no relationship he's throwing at me you will never find some one who loves you as much as me which does pull the heart strings but then I think wait he can't 'love' me so much to disrespect me so much!

And I have asked him why. He says 'I don't know'
I said that's not a good enough answer as its all I seem to hear,
I asked him if its an addiction he's said no. So I asked why can't he stop for the sake of me, the family, and us... He said I don't know!

He's coming to collect the rest of his stuff and see the baby tonight so I'm going to escape for a bath and avoid talking as much as possible, he will just upset me saying stuff to really pull my heart strings.

Blistory Mon 07-Jan-13 16:44:58

God, he sounds even worse now. So not only does he watch porn knowing it upsets you, but he lies about it and then tells you that no one will love you the way he does.

Doesn't sound like love to me. Sorry, I know it's tough but you really can do better than him.

ComfortablyCurvy Mon 07-Jan-13 16:45:17

IMO it's a very personal choice.

Personally, I think it's crazy to separate with the father of your children because he watches a bit of porn in secret.

The trouble you have is the threat you made last time of ending the relationship if you caught him again.

Is it an addiction or just used to tickle his fancy as it were?

I can't see how it's affecting your relationship if you're still regularly intimate, and if its his only 'fault' then I think it's a silly thing to finish over.

I understand the mistrust side of the argument-but still-porn is fantasy, not reality.

How's your relationship usually?
Is this the only 'bad' thing?

ChaoticintheNewYear Mon 07-Jan-13 16:46:00

The OP does not have the right to insist that he stops doing anything.

However she does have the right to leave the relationship for any reason. And if this issue os important to her then so be it.

This ^^

I personally have the right to say to someone 'you can watch porn or you can be in a relationship with me but you can't do both.' It is my right not to be in a relationship with someone who watches porn, it is up to them to make the choice.

The OP's presumably now ex is trying to have his cake and eat it.

Blistory Mon 07-Jan-13 16:47:23

I understand the mistrust side of the argument-but still-porn is fantasy, not reality.

Porn is very much a reality and often a hellish one.

allgoingtoshitnow Mon 07-Jan-13 16:47:42

Are you really going to leave your DH and kids over this OP?

It sounds like a pretty poor reason to break a family up - when hes doing it in private, on his own phone, and you caught him out by snooping.

If its something he likes then you clearly haven't articulated your objections well enough and he thinks YABU.

Lucy411 Mon 07-Jan-13 16:51:10

As silly as it sounds he's had me sobbing on the floor in the bathroom he knows how shit it makes me feel 1) doing it 2) lying to me.

I'm not leaving my baby anywhere he stays with me! His dad chose to mistreat me knowing the repercussions so really isn't my fault I can't change my view on it

PepsiCoco Mon 07-Jan-13 16:53:21

I am with you OP, I broke up with my ex over porn. He agreed not to watch it and 3 times I found it on his laptop, I had a whole long thread about it. It is a deal breaker for me. I eventually found the strength not to take him back and fall for his lies.
For me it was a moral issue that I felt strongly about and it turned in to a trust issue with my ex.
I wasn't happy that he was getting off on looking at other women and in particular other women being raped, let's not sugar coat it, that's what it is.

allgoingtoshitnow Mon 07-Jan-13 16:54:03

Sobbing on the floor over porn? Taking the baby as punishment?

You need to grow up a little.

Raped - what?? That is a bit hysterical isn't it?

lisac99 Mon 07-Jan-13 16:55:36

'If its something he likes then you clearly haven't articulated your objections well enough and he thinks YABU'

Or maybe the OP has articulated her objections well enough on the first time, second time....etc..etc..etc... ninth time and he's carried on doing it as he has no respect for her?

Blistory Mon 07-Jan-13 16:56:22

OP

Your partner is supposed to make your life easier, not harder. You're right that he had a choice and unfortunately the one he made has resulted in the end of your relationship. That's his responsibility, not yours.

You deserve to be with a man who respects you and loves you. It's not too much to ask for and if you don't feel that from him, then you're doing the right thing.

Amytheflag Mon 07-Jan-13 16:56:26

I am like :O reading this thread. I couldn't imagine throwing away a family because of someone watching porn. But then if I had a problem with porn I wouldn't have started a family with someone who likes it so that's moot I guess.

Is it not something you can compromise on? I don't think I'm understanding properly why you are so against him watching porn. Is there a reason that I've missed in the thread?

MadamFolly Mon 07-Jan-13 16:57:42

allgoing Please don't try to tell the OP that her feelings are invalid, they are not and even if they were she has the right to not be with someone who does something she diagrees with.

Like my exaple about the armed forces before. It would make me physically sick to be with a person that took a job that involved carrying weapons and engaging in violence. Many people would disagree with me and they have the right to do so but they do not have the right to tell me that my feelings are wrong and I should suck it up.

PepsiCoco Mon 07-Jan-13 17:01:21

No betty its the reality of the porn history. Unfortunately not hysterical enough. If more people came forward and there was more hysteria then maybe less people would be raped.
Or are you telling me you actually would love the idea of several huge cocks being rammed up your arse everyday? I very much doubt, given a choice, those people would choose that for themselves.

PepsiCoco Mon 07-Jan-13 17:02:54

Sorry OP, got somewhat side tracked. Just shocked at how many MNers are invalidating your opinions just like your (ex)DP has.

Lucy411 Mon 07-Jan-13 17:02:58

He doesn't want to take the baby. And no not sobbing over porn over the man I have 1 and one on the way children with making me feel shit and completely disrespected nothing about ''growing up'

PepsiCoco Mon 07-Jan-13 17:03:24

History? industry

BelaLugosisShed Mon 07-Jan-13 17:04:21

Everyone has the right to specify whatever boundaries they expect in a relationship, their partners are free to agree or not ( and not continue in the relationship) what is not acceptable is that the partner pays lip service then carries on with the behaviour in secret.

It's not unreasonable to end a relationship over this , it's not just "a bit of porn", it's the utter disrespect and lying.

Amytheflag - OP is not throwing her family away, her partner is - he's had more than enough chances - porn use is more important to him than his family.

PepsiCoco Mon 07-Jan-13 17:04:54

You are upset because the man you love has saught pleasure in another woman, albeit on a phone screen. Totally understandable.

ChristmasFayrePhyllis Mon 07-Jan-13 17:08:29

I would end a relationship over drug use. I would also end a relationship over porn use. Because I would consider both harmful to me and to the relationship.

Not sure why so many people are so invested in persuading an OP to overlook a perfectly reasonable personal boundary.

OP, if you want support rather than a bunfight, take this to Relationships.

PollyPeck Mon 07-Jan-13 17:10:00

OP, you really are over-reacting. What's the big deal? Watch it together, you might enjoy it and that may give him more staying power.
What were you doing looking at his phone anyway? Trying to catch him out? Looks like you don't trust him which is far more serious.
Talk about your sex life; fantasies, desires, frustrations and all. Maybe with a counsellor in case it gets overheated, try Relate. It's a lot to chuck away for a bit of porn!

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 07-Jan-13 17:17:43

This is entirely the wrong place for this thread. Ask MNHQ to move it to Relationships.

As it goes, I wouldn't end a relationship if my DP looked at porn. Assuming it was normal porn not child or animal porn. With the former I'd not only end the relationship but call the police.

If it really upsets you that much then you're right to end the relationship, clearly you both are not on the same page and never will be. Ever. It does sound like you've laid down the law and not liked it when he hasn't done as he was told. But if it's something you feel that strongly about then I can understand why you did so and are now so upset.

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 17:19:46

He split coke down him he came in to get changed I asked to use his phone to check my emails I went to google clicked the search bar and all the websites came up. No snooping needed hate to think what I would find if I did and besides that from our past I would rather not know as it seems easier thinking he's being truthful but it wa a literally put under my nose.. What it's going to get to the point where I can't use his phone for an innocent reason just in case!?

BacardiNCoke Mon 07-Jan-13 17:19:56

I also agree you need to post this in relationships. You will get a much more sympathetic balanced view in there.

FWIW I think YANBU. Porn is also a deal breaker for me. We've had problems with DH looking at porn in the past. Last time was when I was pregnant with dd2 (6 years ago). I told him how I felt, how it made me feel and that it wasn't something I could have in our relationship. He took it on board and has so far respected my wishes.

That would be the main issue for me, this is the 10th time you've found him with porn and he still continues to look. And you've got a small baby and are pregnant. It's the complete disregard for your feelings that's the main issue.

Sorry for any typos am on phone.

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 07-Jan-13 17:19:59

Also Op though I can see where you are coming from I suppose, if we stop talking about porn and simply discuss moral boundaries (different for everyone) - why were you looking through his phone? It sounds like you don't trust him anyway.

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 17:20:38

Spilt*

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 17:22:08

Oh changed my name btw!

WaspFactory Mon 07-Jan-13 17:23:03

agree with all saying you shouldn't split your family over this, if you can help it. counselling is a good idea, it could really help you to meet in the middle somewhere.

there's nothing wrong with getting aroused by other men/women, it's weird if you don't, imo. I think he lied to you because you made him with your ultimatum.

there was a thread on here not so long ago about porn and seemingly a lot of women were naive to their partners habits which were covered up by lies.

Amytheflag Mon 07-Jan-13 17:23:09

OP, how come you don't want him watching porn?

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 17:24:22

I hate it,he's cumming over other girls. It's cheating in my opinion

Amytheflag Mon 07-Jan-13 17:25:46

Ah I see. I don't know how to respond to that! Thanks for clarifying though smile

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 17:26:51

Lol sorry, graphic!

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 07-Jan-13 17:27:00

Do you think men who masturbate without porn are always thinking about their partners OP? hmm

PollyPeck Mon 07-Jan-13 17:28:41

Prudish. Try watching together and it might enable him to last longer. Something to bring you together rather than force you apart. It's not the same as having sex with another person

I fantasise about Gerard Butler other people sometimes, does that mean I'm cheating on DH? confused

MadamFolly Mon 07-Jan-13 17:29:12

There are many reasons why people might dislike porn, the OP does not have to justify herself to us!

Her husband has a choice, porn or his relationship. He has chosen porn which is very sad but the OP does not have to put aside her moral code and her feelings of hurt and betrayal just because some people in society think porn is acceptable.

Notice that nowhere on this thread have I posted my opinion on porn because my opinion is not relevant.

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 17:29:26

It's in there mind then its not under my nose and going against the one thing I despise!

InNeedOfBrandy Mon 07-Jan-13 17:30:44

Porn is cheating, really? So if your having sex with your dp and you think of someone else is that cheating to? Or listing after johnny dep is that cheating to? confused

MadamFolly Mon 07-Jan-13 17:31:09

If we were in a country where plygamy was considered acceptable and OP was upset that he husband wanted a second wife there would be people on here telling her to suck it up and her marriage is more important than her feelings of hurt and betrayal.

PollyPeck Mon 07-Jan-13 17:31:22

I guess it wasn't gay porn then

InNeedOfBrandy Mon 07-Jan-13 17:31:28

Lusting not listing.

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 17:31:32

And not at all a prude... Opposite in fact when porn is not involved!

OwlLady Mon 07-Jan-13 17:31:43

Is he really only lasting that long during sex with you? are you satisifed at all with your sex life?

I am sorry to be so personal but it doesn't sound like a very fulfilling sexusla relationship for you at all, porn or no porn

OwlLady Mon 07-Jan-13 17:31:57

sorry sexual

KenLeeeeeee Mon 07-Jan-13 17:32:07

The porn itself isn't the issue, but the lying and complete disregard for the OP's feelings would be the deal breaker if I was in the situation. He's chosen to carry on indulging a desire to watch pornography, knowing full well that he was risking his relationship by doing so. He's made the decision there.

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 17:32:19

Why would you be thinking of another man whilst having sex I don't know?

MadamFolly Mon 07-Jan-13 17:34:15

It comes down to what is more important to him and he has demonstrated the answer to that question 10 times!

PollyPeck Mon 07-Jan-13 17:35:14

That's the problem with ultimatums. What to do when the other party goes ahead anyway? Better to negotiate a compromise. I'm sure there are worse things that would be a lot more damaging to your relationship

AlistairSim Mon 07-Jan-13 17:35:24

I don't think you're being unreasonable, OP.

I find porn to be morally reprehensible and could not be in a realtionship with a man who could think that way about women.

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 07-Jan-13 17:35:28

Okay, so it's porn you don't like. What if you caught him masturbating to a Rihanna music video? Would that be cheating?

I totally get that people are morally against porn, as in, the industry entirely. I don't so much get that it's cheating?

InNeedOfBrandy Mon 07-Jan-13 17:36:33

Alis it seems IMHO the op has issues with dp thinking about anyone but her.

WaspFactory Mon 07-Jan-13 17:36:42

what if he didn't like you reading trashy women's magazines because they're degrading and embarrassing but you thought it was harmless and did it anyway?

Why would you be thinking of another man whilst having sex I don't know?

I didn't say I thought about anyone else when I have sex, just as you don't know that your dp is thinking about anyone other than you when he has sex with you.

PollyPeck Mon 07-Jan-13 17:40:29

Does he look at other women in the street? Do you give him a hard time over that? Is that a form of cheating too?
Surely better to let him look and for you to look too, then you can compare notes and have a laugh. Much healthier.. He's going to look anyway.

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 17:41:16

that would be incredibly weird in my honest opinion and still wanting another woman.. It's about the lying formost lying about porn is secondary

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 07-Jan-13 17:41:47

Wasp my DP thinks exactly that. I ignore him. I think he wants to pat me on the head when I buy National Geographic grin

I think that's more it InNeed. With no disrespect meant to OP, it doesn seem less of a porn issue per se and more very different ideas about what constitutes cheating and so on.

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 17:42:18

Which makes me feel sick. He shouldn't be lusting over another woman especially whilst I'm on top of him!

MrsDeVere Mon 07-Jan-13 17:42:44

Prude?
For not liking porn?

Really?

Gosh, what a revelation. There was me thinking it was because it is a vile and dangerous industry that sucks in people and leaves them for dead when its finished with them.

Now I know I am just a silly prude....

PollyPeck Mon 07-Jan-13 17:43:33

If you were more relaxed about it he'd probably be open and honest with you, that's my point.

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 07-Jan-13 17:44:19

But Locket thinking someone other than your DP is attractive isn't cheating. It's being human. Women do it as well.

He's only lied because you have laid down the law via ultimatums and expected him to comply like a child.

InNeedOfBrandy Mon 07-Jan-13 17:44:37

I think your right alis

OP maybe explore with yourself why you feel so controlling over who he looks at and thinks about, I don't think porn is the problem here really I think you don't feel very secure in the relationship and that's why him thinking about other women is such a big deal to you. Hope you manage to work it all out.

MadCap Mon 07-Jan-13 17:47:05

OP I think some of the pp have behaving nastily towards you.

Why on earth would you want to be with someone who cares so little about your feelings?

PollyPeck Mon 07-Jan-13 17:48:46

Now if DP was IN the porn film I could understand your concern. What right do you have to control his thoughts?

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 07-Jan-13 17:49:01

Also, in my last post, Op, I didn't mean to make it sound like it's your fault that he looks at porn. It isn't. He's lying because you've said it's unacceptable (totally fine point of view) and doesn't want to stop, for reasons known only to him.

EmilyAgain Mon 07-Jan-13 17:51:36

I don't think porn has much to do with how a man views his partner, or anything to do with the quality of his relationship with her. men view love and sex differently than we do. This comes from someone who grew up with brothers, including a twin brother. I honestly believe all men view porn at least occasionally. I find porn vaguely distasteful, but I wouldn't be enraged if I found my husband viewing it. He knows how I feel and respects me enough not to talk about it or do it anywhere I might discover, but if I discovered it accidentally, I wouldn't bring it up. I do not think we should attribute our own feelings to men viewing porn. it just isn't the same. Ask your partner this in a reasonable, nonjudgmental tone and see what he says.

Also, yes, abuse occurs in the porn industry. it is also widespread in the industries or production of: iPads, iPhones, chocolate, diamonds, many children's toys, most meat. How many of you who oppose porn due to abuse in the industry bought any of the previously mentioned items for Christmas presents, or requested them? You would probably prevent more abuse by taking a stand on those things rather than than porn, but it would make life decidedly more inconvenient, right?

If you have typed a message about abuse in the porn industry onto an Apple device, I suggest you google factory conditions in China for Apple workers.

donteatthefiggypudding Mon 07-Jan-13 17:51:53

agree with alis and inNeed.
I dislike porn, the industry and all that goes with it, but i understand that men like visual stimulation, and porn fulfills that. his interest in porn, so long as it's adult, consenting and not an addiction, really doesn't constitute a threat to your realtionship, OP. It is also something he does on his own, and really shouldn't concern you unless you chose to enjoy it together.
As someone upthread said, the problem with ultimatums are that they need to be enforced. perhaps sitting down and TALKING about the issue is a better way forward. you have children, you owe it to them to really work this one out.

Bubblegum78 Mon 07-Jan-13 17:53:04

I agree with Minitheminx.

Everyone has their "hard limits", you've stated yours and he has ignored it.

This isn't just about porn it's about trust and he's broken it over and over.

Clearly he has an addiction.

You have a conundrum, if you back down now, then what?

If you can't tolerate this then you can't, why should you back down? I do however think this warrants a proper discussion and that includes the PE aswell.

There has been dishonesty on both parts. I think you two can't have a proper relationship until you are both honest with each other.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Mon 07-Jan-13 17:53:39

Have you asked for this to be moved to Relationships? It's far better for this kind of thing than AIBU. You wont have a bunch of idiots telling you that you should 'stand by your man' & that 'porn is fine' & you are 'uptight' if you don't like it.

This thread shouldn't even be about Porn - it's about trust and anyone too dim to see that should really resist the urge to post drivel about not splitting up a family over porn.

perceptionreality Mon 07-Jan-13 17:53:41

People watch porn because they're watching the sex, imo as someone who has used porn myself. It's a voyeur thing. Otherwise they would just use still pictures.

But if it's a deal breaker then you should end it - it will never stop being a problem for you and that's fair enough. And he's not going to stop looking at it imo - people often see it as a private masturbation tool. In all honesty, everyone fantasises when they masturbate - often about things you wouldn't do in RL.

That said, I am sure there are men out there who are happy to not watch it. I have to say that of the men I've known who use it quite a lot - they did so from a young teen sort of age and it became a part of their sexuality early on. If I had a son I would be worried because porn is just so easy to access nowadays and that's why people watch it - because it's there.

Blistory Mon 07-Jan-13 17:55:55

Have I entered a parallel universe ? Or did I just miss the cool bus where it's the done thing to like porn ?

Instead of questioning why the hell he has to look at porn, we're questioning the OPs sex life, prudishness, insecurities, her controlling nature ?

As for porn being healthy, sweet fucking lord, I'm speechless at that one.

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 17:56:35

All I get is I don't know so I end up rambling on for an hour asking him questions etc whilst he looks at the floor saying I love you. I'm sorry. It won't happen again

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Mon 07-Jan-13 17:58:38

Bubblegum - when/where exactly was the OP dishonest?

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 17:59:51

I'm on my phone and have no idea how to change it over?
It could be anything it happens to be porn I hate and why is it such a big ask for him to stop?
I also said you clearly have no respect for me/my wishes he said I do... That's all just I do and went silent

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Mon 07-Jan-13 18:01:19

Except you know it will, because he doesn't agree with you.

StuntGirl Mon 07-Jan-13 18:01:53

If both of you are happy and fine with porn then obviously it's not a issue for your relationship, wank each other off while watching it, replicate scenes, what-the-fuck ever.

But of one of you has a vested dislike of it - and there are many reasons why this could be - it's perfectly acceptable to say "I don't like this, I do not want to engage in it, and I do not want to be with someone who does".

The difficult part here is that the OP has a child with this man, and one on the way. It would be easier if she had found out/acted on this earlier (I don't know at what point the ultimatums and children came in the scheme of things). But as things stand the OP does not like porn and does not want to be with a partner who does. That's OK. It really is.

She doesn't have to explain or justify it to anyone. She just has to do what's she feels is right for herself and her family. What your definition of what's right for her family is irrelevant.

MrsKeithRichards Mon 07-Jan-13 18:02:17

Have you told him exactly why you don't want him looking at porn I'm getting the impression it isn't a moral issue more a looking at other women issue

MadCap Mon 07-Jan-13 18:03:34

He doesn't though, otherwise he wouldn't do it. Or he has some kind of addiction that he's refusing to acknowledge.

If you have a girl OP, would you want her raised by a man who looks upon women solely as objects for sexual gratification.

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 07-Jan-13 18:04:27

Maybe try waiting out his silences OP? From your last post it sounds like there may be something he's not saying like "I do...but xyz"? Just a thought.

Blistory I don't like porn, I don't find it at all titilating, having watched it once or twice when I was younger. I find it hilarious on a "poor you" level that men do. It isn't something I would end a relationship over though.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Mon 07-Jan-13 18:04:34

You know he wont change.

You know he wont keep his promise if he promises not to do it.

You know he completely disrespects your feelings.

There is no point in keep asking him why because he can't see 'why not' - he doesn't feel he needs a 'reason' because there's 'nothing wrong with it'.

All you have to do now is stay strong this time and not take him back. You don't want to be here again in another few months.... and you would be, without a doubt sad

perceptionreality Mon 07-Jan-13 18:05:07

'the OP does not like porn and does not want to be with a partner who does. That's OK. It really is.'

I agree

Amytheflag Mon 07-Jan-13 18:05:19

Everyone who says its about trust, its also about control. OP is trying to control her OH by using ultimatums. Why is someone allowed to dictate another persons viewing material if they view it privately?

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 18:06:10

Started at the very beginning didn't find out until 7 months pregnant and in hospital

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 07-Jan-13 18:06:17

Agree with that Amy

theykillhorses Mon 07-Jan-13 18:06:37

wow
you loved by him enough to make 2 babies with him in a year but now it is over

no relate first?

InNeedOfBrandy Mon 07-Jan-13 18:08:25

I agree Amy.

I don't like porn I'm not pro porn I just see this issue as OPs insecurity about the relationship. She has said its about him thinking about other women while cumming so while some may have issues with the morality of porn and how it's made that isn't the ops objection.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Mon 07-Jan-13 18:08:33

Jesus wept - it is not about control. SHE doesn't want to be with someone who watches porn. That is her decision. His decision is to stay with her and not watch porn or accept she wont stay in that relationship. That is not control.

Amy - would you be ok with your partner watching donkey sex? If he did it would you be fine with that? Would you be fine with him mugging old ladies? Would you be fine with him walking naked down the street?

perceptionreality Mon 07-Jan-13 18:08:42

Amy - would you say the same about your dh if he gambled or smoked or used drugs, or to strip clubs 'as long as it was in private'?

If the OP finds porn unacceptable and it makes her unhappy for her partner to watch it then that is fair enough and certainly does not make her 'controlling'

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 18:09:46

We were together for a year I got pregnant at 7 months I found out he had been watching porn knowing my views and admitted he had all the time since the beginning I thought we had got over it baby no.2 was a suprise

StuntGirl Mon 07-Jan-13 18:09:53

It's less about control and more about compatibility. All that's happening is the two are finding out that actually, they're not as compatible as they thought. If neither is willing to compromise for the other - and I agree in a jealousy/porn-is-cheating scenario there is more room for compromise than a straight up moral dislike - then really there isn't anywhere for this relationship to go.

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 18:10:12

* at 7 months pregnant

InNeedOfBrandy Mon 07-Jan-13 18:10:23

Animal porn, mugging and public exposing is illegal so not comparable.

MadCap Mon 07-Jan-13 18:11:28

Amy, it isn't controlling. He's free to carry on doing it. He should havetold her. She could have made her choice then rather than stay with someone who thinks watching a bit of porn is more important than op's feelings. He lied to her and told her that he stopped and carried on regardless.

perceptionreality Mon 07-Jan-13 18:11:40

The point is, Brandy that everyone has different ideas of what they think is acceptable in a relationship. And that doesn't make them controlling.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Mon 07-Jan-13 18:11:46

So what if her objection is moral or personal?

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 07-Jan-13 18:13:47

My dp smokes and plays poker (with friends) which most of you would probably class as gambling. So yes...I'd be completely fine with that.

Mugging old ladies, public exposure are illegal. The Donkey Punch sex act is ridiculously dangerous and make well have consequences that result in a custodial sentence. Not really comparable to watching a bit of straight forward porn is it?

perceptionreality Mon 07-Jan-13 18:15:07

Alis, you are missing the point entirely.

everlong Mon 07-Jan-13 18:15:43

People would actually split up over porn?

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Mon 07-Jan-13 18:15:52

It doesn't matter what the 'thing' is. Don't you get that? It is about the fact that she has said I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who does X, so either you stop doing X or I'm leaving.

No one else has to agree that X is wrong - not even him.

This is her life - she's allowed to decide if X in her relationship is OK or not.

It's not.

He's promised over and over and over again to stop doing X.

He hasn't stopped & he's lied about doing it.

He's chosen to do X over her feelings about it.

She is getting out of the relationship.

She's allowed. It's HER life.

perceptionreality Mon 07-Jan-13 18:16:11

Nobody should have to justify their feelings about why something makes them feel bad, just because that same things doesn't happen to make you feel bad.

Blistory Mon 07-Jan-13 18:16:16

The difference Alis is that you're fine with your DP smoking and gambling.

strumpetpumpkin Mon 07-Jan-13 18:16:29

a bit hysterical and controlling to try and rule over what he can and cant look at on his phone in private. Jesus. So you dont like porn. Thats fine. He does.
You dont have to like it, but you really shouldnt have had 2 children with a guy you knew looked at porn if its such a "dealbreaker" for you, and then decide to whip them away from him.

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 07-Jan-13 18:17:38

Enlighten me then?

I haven't said the OP is wrong to ask him to leave, if she objects to what he's doing then...that's her choice.

I was merely interested as to why she found it so objectional and why she's never been able to get him to explain why he likes to view it. Because, he should be able to explain it, not least because he knows she dislikes it.

donteatthefiggypudding Mon 07-Jan-13 18:17:41

stuntgirl is right about the compatability issue. op thinks porn-viewing is wrong; DP thinks it's ok. but throwing the relationship away without really having a conversation about it is very sad.

Blistory Mon 07-Jan-13 18:18:57

And maybe he should have considered her and his family when he continued to do something that he knows upsets her and that he had agreed to stop.

And any adult who tells another that theyll never find someone who loves them the way they do, is the controlling one.

StuntGirl Mon 07-Jan-13 18:19:10

The point is, Brandy that everyone has different ideas of what they think is acceptable in a relationship. And that doesn't make them controlling.

YY.

I would not date a man who: smoked, did drugs, drank excessively, watched porn, was in the army or was any kind of -ist you can think of. I want a partner who shares a similar moral outlook to me, as these things are important to me and I find I have better compatibility and understanding - and therefore a better relationship - when I'm with men like this.

Some might find this controlling, or having high standards, or being picky, but I'm in a happy, secure, respectful relationship with a man I'm ridiculously compatible with. I'm OK with my List.

Amytheflag Mon 07-Jan-13 18:21:05

It is controlling to say he should stop doing something he likes by giving him an ultimatum or harassing him into saying he won't do it. If he wants to do it, leave or get over it. What does it affect really if he has a quick wank while watching porn? Its like someone's DP threatening to leave if you read fifty shades of shite. Would that be reasonable? What if next OP decides he has to leave if he watches anything with "insert sexy celebrity here" in it? Etc etc. Where does it end?

theykillhorses Mon 07-Jan-13 18:22:11

It is her life and sticking to principles is important

but what about two innocent babies who have no chance of a family now!

surely the two adults should attend counselling? to resolve this asap

if you make babies so rapidly and have sex 10 times a week you obviously both have high sex drives, perhaps Relate can help you both to sort this

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 07-Jan-13 18:22:13

StuntGirl...Geologist? what have they ever done to you? grin

StuntGirl Mon 07-Jan-13 18:25:38

Ali grin

StuntGirl Mon 07-Jan-13 18:27:47

Actually Amy if a man was against porn - and they do exist - then yes, he would be within his rights to say "I don't like this. I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who does" just like a woman could.

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 18:31:04

Stunt girl send them my way please smile

MadCap Mon 07-Jan-13 18:33:41

Locket, I have one, but he's not going spare at moment. grin

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 18:34:44

Think il buy myself 50,000 cats and hibernate smile

Amytheflag Mon 07-Jan-13 18:35:31

Or you think you have one wink

IM JOKING IM JOKING!!! grin

BelaLugosisShed Mon 07-Jan-13 18:46:34

I was going to say that it's refreshing not to have seen the tired old "all men use porn and you're a fool if you think yours doesn't" bollox hmm

Never mind.

Amy, why no critiscism of the selfish man who is willing to throw his family away over porn use, shouldn't his priority be acting like a decent partner who makes her feel secure and loved?

Amytheflag Mon 07-Jan-13 19:05:39

If the first part is referring to me bela, I clearly put I'm joking. I'm also aware that argument gets trotted out on threads like this and also know there are men who don't watch porn. Which is why I made the joke.

And there's no criticism of the man because I think he already tried compromising in a way to keep them both happy (keeping it out of OPs sight) and I honestly don't see why she can't compromise too. If he was sat on the family PC in front of her tugging one out and never having sex with OP that would be a different matter and I could understand the uproar. Why is the man always the bad guy? Why can't the woman work on her issues rather than putting them on the man?

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 19:09:21

Because I have said from the beginning I hate it, it's not something I am willing to accept as I have tried clearly taking him back so many times proves this, its something I can't change.

He's too selfish to be able to put this one this aside and have a family home relationship etc but chose porn over me essentially.

Lovecat Mon 07-Jan-13 19:11:26

I'm just shock at this thread. I cannot believe some of the awful, horrible responses the OP has got.

Regardless of whether porn is ok or not (and the vast majority of it it is SO not ok), the OP's partner agreed that he wouldn't do it again. Ten times. Then went & did it again. That breach of trust is the problem, not porn in itself (although where all these right-on porn apologists have popped up from is another matter - does a klaxon go off somewhere when one of these threads comes up?)

And for this she's been called frigid, hysterical, controlling, a home-wrecker (won't somebody think of the children!), harrassing - no. He's the home-wrecker, he's the one who breaks promises, who lies, who tries to emotionally blackmail the OP.

Quite frankly she's better off shut of him now than allowing her children to grow up around a man who disrespects women so openly. Stay strong, OP.

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 19:14:13

Thank you love cat I'm currently on the sofa keeping my head down and silent as he just turned up to see the baby. Aghhhhhhh

AThingInYourLife Mon 07-Jan-13 19:18:35

"you will never find some one who loves you as much as me"

I'm intrigued that you find that romantic rather than insulting.

He's saying that you have to put up with his porn use and lying because nobody else will want you. He's dressing it up, but that's what it comes down to.

But you don't.

I'm sure one day you'll find someone to love more than this lying, porn-using scummer.

Don't mind the thickos saying you are controlling.

They say that about all women who dare to disagree with men.

What is really controlling is forcing someone into continuing a relationship on terms you know they wouldn't accept by lying to them.

He has tricked you into conceiving two children with him by pretending he was the kind of man you wanted a relationship with.

PollyPeck Mon 07-Jan-13 19:24:38

What harm is he doing to anyone? OP only found out 'cos she was on his phone. What's the big deal anyway? It's not like he's off balling some other chick. He probably will if this nonsense carries on. Why should he be made to promise something he enjoys which is not illegal? Get over yourself, OP and enjoy a man with a high sex drive

MiniTheMinx Mon 07-Jan-13 19:26:10

<<Why is someone allowed to dictate another persons viewing material if they view it privately>>

I think it really depends on what they are viewing. Everyone has nature and demeanor. Our internal dialogue might be completely at odds with how we behave and want others to see us. What goes on in someone's head is private and most of us would prefer it stay that way. The problem with someone discovering Pornography can sometimes be that they see what the other persons internal dialogue is all about, laid bare, so to speak. So these fantasies are no longer just in the mind of the other and completely inaccessible. I know I would prefer not to know DPs darkest fantasies, should I ever discover what they are through discovering "his" pornography, (he doesn't watch it) I think it would shatter my illusion of him. (depending on what it is of course!) For me that is the difference btw fantasy and pornography. Pornography however it is viewed will leave a physical trail of evidence.

BelaLugosisShed Mon 07-Jan-13 19:26:14

Men who continue to use porn when they are at risk of losing their family and home, are the ones with issues wink

There are a massive number of women citing porn use as the main reason for the breakdown of their marriages, ask any divorce lawyer.

Men who are very regular consumers of porn are unlikely to be unaffected in their daily lives, just as men who are very regular drinkers/soft drug users or computer gamers - it all boils down to extremely selfish behaviour dressed up as a "harmless" hobby.

WaspFactory Mon 07-Jan-13 19:27:06

OP clearly wanted advice so there's nothing with people siding with the partner and offering her a different viewpoint. Regardless of anyone's views, why be alone with 2 kids when you can be with someone she obviously loves? There is middle ground but OP needs to realise his motivations and discuss the whole thing with a counsellor. Why not?

Portofino Mon 07-Jan-13 19:27:19

I am shocked at the responses here! What a bunch of handmaidens! The Op's partner is BLATANTLY disrpecting her - and so many posters are making this about HER??? WTAF? YANBU Op. You don't like porn - you told him you don't like porn on many occasions. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion - if he cannot respect it - then he needs to ship out.

WaspFactory Mon 07-Jan-13 19:28:06

Woah there Bela.... 'users of computer games'??? shock

MiniTheMinx Mon 07-Jan-13 19:28:18

Its the biggest single issue in divorce in the U.S.A now.

MiniTheMinx Mon 07-Jan-13 19:29:34

Well said Portofino

I'm sorry you are in this position op. IMO he has broken the family, he has broken your trust, and he has willingly behaved in a disrespectful, underhand and cruel way. He had every opportunity to tell you that he won't/can't stop, and instead chose to deceive you. He basically showed you that his porn is more important than your relationship.

you are not being controlling at all. As others have said, its up to you to set your own boundaries, be that against infidelity, porn, or anything else. Stay strong and remember all of the previous promises he's made, how many times he's said these same platitudes, all of the lies, when he tries selling his shit to you again.

brighthair Mon 07-Jan-13 19:30:51

You stated what wasn't acceptable and he did it anyway so I get it

On the porn matter though, and this is a genuine question. I'm 28, and every man I know (work colleagues, ex partners etc) has watched or does watch porn. I couldn't even think of saying it as a deal breaker because to be it would be like wanting a man with one green eye and one brown eye - virtually impossible
My current partner watched it, doesn't bother me at all, mainly because its amateur/filmed at home stuff he watches

BelaLugosisShed Mon 07-Jan-13 19:31:29

So Pollypeck - she should just STFU in case he decides to fuck other women instead? Nice. Not using porn causes infidelity now does it?
What harm is he doing? How about destroying his pregnant partner's mental health, for starters? never mind the harm that the sex industry in general does.

WaspFactory Mon 07-Jan-13 19:32:29

bright - same here

MiniTheMinx Mon 07-Jan-13 19:38:34

So women are "chicks" and porn is great entertainment and we should all be glad our men are not poking other "chicks"

Blistory Mon 07-Jan-13 19:39:02

Brighthair

We're brought up with the expectation that porn use is acceptable, as long as it's not extreme hard core. Why ? Why does a young man need to look at naked women at best and pictures of women being exploited, raped, or killed at worst ?

If you saw porn for the first time in a vacuum, don't you think your more instinctive response would be....why ? But we're taught that it's liberal, forward thinking etc etc to accept porn, it's harmless after all. Because it suits the porn industry and it suits men to tell us this.

Any why is it okay for boy/men to be told that they can view women's bodiess as something that exist for their pleasure ? If it's so acceptable and natural why not do the same for girls/women ?

Porn is generally a crap situation for women - I don't want to sit on the train next to some tosser who's sitting there looking at a naked women and getting turned on. I don't want to think about the human trafficking element, the women who are beated, abused, demeaned, treated like trash. And why, so some guy can get off on some boobs and fanny ?

MiniTheMinx Mon 07-Jan-13 19:40:24

Do men have an absolute right to watch porn? If they do then it could be said that women have a right to ask them not to as a condition of having a sexual relationship with them.

Lovecat Mon 07-Jan-13 19:47:19

Great post, Blistory smile

brighthair Mon 07-Jan-13 19:51:13

Blistory - I guess. Because all the men I know watch it then I do see it as normal. I occasionally watch it myself BUT I'm fussy. I found a woman who is a porn star who is very honest about her life in porn, she has a twitter and a blog and some of the interviews about her life were fascinating (not in a sexual way!)
She was interviewed about changing from woman on woman to woman/man pornography. I actually watched the first film she did with a man with my friend (god this sounds weird) because it was so OMG she is actually really, really enjoying this and it was so different from anything I've seen

As I said my partner watches it, and he is particular too. He will openly send me a link to whatever he has watched if I ask. He's a lovely guy, caring, nice to elderly people and children, works hard, doesn't do drugs/drink excessively and treats me like a princess. To find one like him that doesn't watch porn I think for me would be searching for the non existent.
I don't agree with excessive use, I hate films where the woman doesn't look happy, anything slightly dodgy and I switch off. But (on a particular website) there is vast amounts of happy amateurs and I have no problem with that
But with the OP, for me the lying is the deal breaker and specifically doing what she doesn't want him to

brighthair Mon 07-Jan-13 19:52:27

God sorry that was an essay blush
I did just ask him why he watched porn and he asked "is this a trick question or are you on the bloody Internet again?" grin

catgirl1976 England Mon 07-Jan-13 19:53:42

I don't have a massive issue with porn

But you do. And you've made it clear to him how you feel on serveral occasions and he has ignored that.

That's the issue. Not the porn itself. It could be anything

Sure this has been said and I've not read the whole thread

It doesn't matter what other people's attitudes to porn are. What matters is his attitude to you

Blistory Mon 07-Jan-13 19:56:20

Men get conned too - they're not really allowed to admit that they don't like it or think it's unacceptable. There are however plenty of men who don't use it.

Do you really think that any man who fathers a daughter like the idea of some stranger wanking over a picture of her breasts ? And if he doesn't like it, why should he do it to someone else's daughter/sister/wife etc etc

Amd for every happy hooker/porn star story, there are a thousand untold tales of misery. It's acting, it's not real.

brighthair Mon 07-Jan-13 20:00:25

Oh I know there is, which is the stuff I choose not to watch. So basically the difference is that me and partner agree on porn which the OP hasn't got, they don't agree
And no, of course a Dad wouldn't like it... But given (don't ask, I was traumatised) I KNOW he watches/watched it then he doesn't have the right to say
It's all about agreement isn't it and what are and aren't deal breakers. For me drugs are deal breakers, and drink driving. Drugs once, maybe if it never happened again. Drunk driving is a total, utter no

BelaLugosisShed Mon 07-Jan-13 20:07:50

Brighthair, what if you ask him what he would do if you had a change of heart and found porn use unacceptable and you said that it would change your opinion of him and he would lose your respect if he continued to use it?

FYI, Amateur porn is very often nothing of the sort, even if it is genuine, there is no way of knowing whether both parties have consented to their sex life being shown online, some men upload videos of an ex out of spite.

BelaLugosisShed Mon 07-Jan-13 20:10:28

What about abusive men who coerce their wives into performing on camera and put it online? It's another weapon of control for them, are you confident you could tell that you were watching what would actually be a rape on film?

DoItToJulia Mon 07-Jan-13 20:12:00

Lol at nice to elderly people!

Agree with all the posters that say this is an issue about trust, the porn is just the detail.

GossipWitch Mon 07-Jan-13 20:14:25

OP I have to say that, although I dont mind porn and will occasionally watch it with my fella, I find it really hard to deal with when he watches it alone, particularly if I'm awake and up for it, and he's downstairs watching it, it makes me feel like shit, and like I'm not good enough, since I told him this I'm pretty sure he hasn't done it since. But I know if he did, I would be seriously thinking about our relationship status. I'm with you on this one, he has broken your trust.

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 07-Jan-13 20:19:46

Regardless of whether I would or would not do the same in your position,he has broken your trust and that must hurt horribly. I do hope you are doing okay OP?

Did you ask for this thread to be moved into Relationships? You'll get good advice there,going forward,regardless of what decision you make regarding your relationship.

brighthair Mon 07-Jan-13 20:22:36

I get about the coercion, I do. But without name changing grin I can't go into huge details!!
The site I use is a site where couples upload photos and videos of themselves. I know they are in no way coerced because I have chatted to them (people ask them questions and stuff)
I find this thread really interesting because I never considered it to be such a massive subject until I joined here
I asked him why he watched porn and the answer was "take your pick. I'm bored, I'm horny, you aren't here, there's nothing on tv, I couldn't sleep, I fancied a quick one" and in answer to the question of would he stop "I don't know. I would be a bit freaked cos it's like you've suddenly changed our relationship rules. I guess I would want to talk with you about why, and I would worry something had happened to make you ask. Then yes, if you wanted me to I would. But can I have naked videos of you instead then? I like visual"
blushblushgrin

chris481 Mon 07-Jan-13 20:24:39

I'm a little irritated by the number of people saying he is throwing away the relationship over porn. The clear fact is that she is terminating the relationship, not him.

Blaming him for the break-up is the equivalent of saying "you made me hit you because you know I get angry when you say/do X." The fact that you have warned someone what you will do if they do X does not mean carrying out the threat is automatically OK. It matters whether the threat was reasonable in the first place.

I think this is a trivial and ridiculous reason to terminate a relationship where there are already children. Particularly as it seems she doesn't have a moral objection to porn, but is just jealous/insecure. And I don't buy the lying/lack of trust as a reason because I find it hard to believe that from the first time they met she made clear that she would terminate the relationship over porn. How would that come up on a first date? It is much more likely they were already in the relationship the first time they had this conversation. If that was the case, and the relationship was already at the stage where trying to preserve it meant a lot to him, then his choices were (a) allowing her completely unreasonable control over what he is allowed to think about (porn is just a visual aid to fantasy, a type of thinking) and (b) lying. (Yes a braver man could have tried to argue with her, but that depends on how articulate he is and how reasonable he thinks she is. On the available information I can't see that he would have got anywhere if he'd tried to argue.)

AThingInYourLife Mon 07-Jan-13 20:24:50

"To find one like him that doesn't watch porn I think for me would be searching for the non existent."

No, it really wouldn't.

lovelyladuree Mon 07-Jan-13 20:28:04

It was on his phone and private. He wasn't watching it in front of you. You have self-confidence issues which you need to work on, lady.

Franz1980 Mon 07-Jan-13 20:29:26

Porn is bad enough but pissing porn? eewww

AThingInYourLife Mon 07-Jan-13 20:30:33

" If that was the case, and the relationship was already at the stage where trying to preserve it meant a lot to him, then his choices were (a) allowing her completely unreasonable control over what he is allowed to think about (porn is just a visual aid to fantasy, a type of thinking) and (b) lying. (Yes a braver man could have tried to argue with her, but that depends on how articulate he is and how reasonable he thinks she is. On the available information I can't see that he would have got anywhere if he'd tried to argue.)"

So basically, a man has a right to a relationship with a woman, and if she is being uppity and setting terms he finds disagreeable, he has no choice but to lie?

He had the choice to be honest and walk away.

That was what was in offer.

If he was capable of love, he wouldn't have tricked her. He woukd have wanted her to have a relationship that made her truly happy with a man who deserved her.

She doesn't owe him a relationship just because he wants one.

She is a person with her own life to lead, choices to make, and standards to stick to.

brighthair Mon 07-Jan-13 20:32:47

AThingInYourLife - I've been single for 7 years. I'm not classed as pretty, most men I have met don't want to date me because they wouldn't want to be seen with me (that isn't low self esteem btw, it's the truth) I want a man who is tall, kind, sociable, doesn't drink massive amounts, treats me well, wants children, is tolerant of my hobby, appreciates I work shifts, that I get on with, is intelligent, shares the same interests.... Etc etc
I have him. But he watches porn maybe twice a week. It doesn't bother me. I can't argue about how hard it would be to find a man, let alone who doesn't watch porn but believe me when I say I haven't had a shred of interest in 7 years, no flirting, no dates, no man looks at me

Out of interest, do you think men watch it when they are younger and grow out of it? Or do some just never start watching it?

brighthair Mon 07-Jan-13 20:34:35

And I totally agree with AThings last message. He KNEW, and still chose to do it. That's the deal breaker. To me, if you love someone enough that wouldn't even be in question

MiniTheMinx Mon 07-Jan-13 20:39:50

There is no such thing as ethical porn where money changes hands.

As regards "a brave man might have argued" I have never heard a good argument in favour of porn. If you don't have the right to expect certain behaviour or treatment from your partner, then where do you draw a line.

If men are such slaves to their libido, then it could be said that " he raped me but you know he can't help it" or "he hits me because he has too much testosterone"

EuroShagmore Mon 07-Jan-13 20:43:40

I'm a latecomer to this thread, but I am a bit incredulous that someone would break up a family because one member of it liked watching other people having sex sometimes. It's just sex. Everybody does it. It's just bits. Everybody has one kind or the other. I just don't get the fuss about porn per se (I do think however that there are valid points around coercion that takes place in some porn, etc).

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 20:47:56

He lied! I knew him before it has always been known as I am also friends with his friends the conversation did creep up before we were officially together but just getting talking

Charbon Mon 07-Jan-13 20:53:40

OP

It is fine to end a relationship with a man who has lied to you 10 times.

That's all.

StuntGirl Mon 07-Jan-13 20:53:48

"(I do think however that there are valid points around coercion that takes place in some porn, etc)."

And this is precisely why I am against porn.

AThingInYourLife Mon 07-Jan-13 21:01:11

"most men I have met don't want to date me because they wouldn't want to be seen with me"

You seem to have met a particularly objectionable cross-section of men.

I think lots of blokes either never got into porn, or grew out of it once real girls would kiss them.

MrsBW Italy Mon 07-Jan-13 21:02:55

Not that anyone need explain themselves to me, but I'm confused.

I thought the OP said they didn't have objection to the ethical issues around porn?

It was the lying and the getting off on other women that was the issue.

Getting off on other women bit? Personally I think that's low self esteem if that's a problem for you (putting the ethical debate to one side, remember). After all, plenty of people fantasise about people other than their partners.

The lying bit? If the OP is making a massive issue out of it then perhaps this is leading him to try to have his cake and eat it... Keep watching but lie about it.

Off topic a bit? The other thing I find odd is that someone would rule out a relationship with someone on the basis that they're in the forces... When most forces personnel don't go near a front line or 'do violence' ... And ironically, a lot of them sign up because it's the only employment option they (think they) have... Similar to some porn actresses perhaps???

Still OP.. If a partner has crossed the line, he's crossed the line.. The decision is yours and no one else's. I hope everything works out ok for you.

whois Mon 07-Jan-13 21:36:17

Wow you are being totally U about a bit if porn unless its illegal stuff or ultra odd or violent.

You shouldn't have been looking at his phone, it really wasn't affecting you was it? He wasn't showing you the porn? Or saying he didn't want to have sex as he was looking at porn?

Yeah dump him, and have fun telling your baby that mummy dumped daddy because he had porn on his phone in a few years time...

Mia4 Mon 07-Jan-13 21:57:55

This really isn't just about the porn OP, the issue is between you two not being compatible with this or being able to compromise is one thing but the deal breaker is the continued lying.

Personally I don't mind porn, my partner doesn't watch-i do. I was very open and had he told me he didn't like or want me watching it for whatever reason be it morality, insecurity, jealousy or just dislike, I'd have told him it was my choice-not his. I wouldn't have lied. Had he chosen to break up with me over that, fair enough, I would have done the same if he'd kept pushing me not to watch but had I agreed not to do it and lied about it then that's really not on.

He won't change OP, accept it and decide what you want to do. Whatever he says he won't change. Better that you are both single and happy without this stress then this being a continued issue and source of stress, frustration and resentment for you both.

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 21:58:02

Really how dare you bring my baby in to this? It's not a concern of his why we split but as you have already started we are over as he has lied to me betrayed my trust and completely taken away all my self confidence in the mean time!

Really going for the low blows to write that! Wow!

AnyFucker Germany Mon 07-Jan-13 22:00:15

I can't understand why some people are telling this woman she is stupid to "throw away" her relationship with this secretive, deceitful, disrespectful compulsive porn user who is also shit at sex.

Not much of a ctach, is he ?

thank goodness at least the op realises that not all women will put up with anything just for the sake of a relationship

AnyFucker Germany Mon 07-Jan-13 22:00:40

*catch

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 22:03:58

But thank you to all the helpful ladies tonight who have made me feel better and realise that its not just me who thinks the betrayal of trust is a huge issue and I'm not just going nuts!

For everyone that has put on here that I am wrong for not wanting to be in a relationship with him due to the porn, if you had read the thread the main issue was the trust.. Which he shattered, it could have been he was popping in for a pint every night yet lying about it, it really does get on top of you and because you don't share my view my child/children should have never been brought and used as some kind of tool to get at me,

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 07-Jan-13 22:04:48

Nice One AnyFucker.
You put it so much better than I ever could. grin

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Mon 07-Jan-13 22:32:07

Lockets really, don't worry about the stupid posts - you know you have done the right thing. Just stay strong and stick to your guns!!

Kiwiinkits Mon 07-Jan-13 22:49:41

Personally, you are massively overreacting. You are prepared to deprive your kids of a present father figure, with all of the emotional and psychological damage that that potentially faces them as a result, and with all of the financial and practical challenges that potentially faces you as a result, because he viewed some naked people on a phone shock. I think you really need to look at your priorities! I also think your reaction is equivalent to "well you made me hit you because you know you shouldn't make me angry". You have issues, lady.

Kiwiinkits Mon 07-Jan-13 22:53:59

Like a previous poster has eloquently put, I have a mild distaste for porn. I wouldn't be happy if DH watched it all the time. But you know what, when we started dating I smoked from time to time. My husband said he didn't like it, and I knew it wasn't healthy, so I stopped. He'd be disappointed if I had a ciggy at the pub, and he'd be disappointed if I lied about it to him, but my god, if he tried to split up my family over it and deprive me of my relationship with my kids I would think he was absolutely cruel, hard-hearted, unreasonable and controlling.

YABVVVVVVU.

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 07-Jan-13 22:54:37

Kiwiiinuts and Lovelyladuree, are you the same poster?
Very similar posts.

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 07-Jan-13 22:56:18

*kiwiiinkits

gimmecakeandcandy Mon 07-Jan-13 23:00:04

The fact he only lasts two minutes when you have sex shows how much porn has ruined his sexual drive. Maybe he needs to know that.

Kiwiinkits Mon 07-Jan-13 23:00:06

Me: DH, I hate computer games, I hope you never get an x-box
DH: hmmpphphhhhh
Me: oh good, I'm glad we had this conversation. I really don't like computer games, you know.

(6 months later)
DH: I bought an x-box, thought I'd play WOW for the next 10 hours straight
Me: waaaaaaah! I hate computer games, I told you that! waaaaahh!
DH: [hides x-box, surpresses his anger at being controlled]

(8 months later)
DH: [secretly plays x-box while I'm at work]
Me: [on finding out] I'm dumping you and taking the kids with me. It's over. You mean nothing to me, and your kids are no longer yours. Your life will be turned upside down. How dare you piss me off!

wgac Mon 07-Jan-13 23:03:36

Women watch porn. I often swap DVD's with friends so I can watch it with DH. I wonder if DH's would leave their DW's if they found porn on their phone. I am dead against anything illegal, but cannot see the harm with the usual run of the mill stuff....

Good luck finding a man that does not have some sort of dirty mags under his bed or porn on his phone.

Maybe men should leave their DW's cos they have read 50 shades of grey...

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 23:04:42

lady I was thinking that too, and what's cruel is a have given him so many chances and he has disrespected me with something I have such a strong view on and in doing this I physically cannot and will not continue in a relationship with him, so no Sunday morning I had the normal happy family taking out son out having a meal and due to his selfishness left me with no alternative than to be a single pregnant mum! I have tried talking he wants none of it I have tried getting over the fact I hate it so much and I can't and why should I have to its not a new grey area for us its always been present I have just been naive to think he was telling the truth when in fact he was going behind my back and risking our family life. That's enough justification on my part.. Not that I need to as I have not been the 'baddy' in this I'm not perfect but I'm not a lying untrustworthy shellfish self centred tosser like he himself!

Locketjuice Mon 07-Jan-13 23:05:54

Selfish* auto correct!

Charbon Mon 07-Jan-13 23:09:09

Locket it doesn't matter what some of these posters think. Unfortunately there are some on this site today who think that any relationship with a man (even one with a liar who uses porn and is rubbish in bed) must be saved at all costs. Fortunately not every poster on Mumsnet today is that desperate and more to the point, neither are you.

You are not depriving him of parenthood either, or your children their right to have a father. I hope you expect him to be just as much a father as he would have been had he remained in a relationship with you. If he isn't, that will be his fault and no-one else's.

What you are doing is saying 'no' to a romantic relationship with someone you don't trust, because he is untrustworthy and has repeatedly lied to you.

That is your right and don't let the desperados or anyone else persuade you otherwise.

SparkyDudess Mon 07-Jan-13 23:09:58

When did it become compulsory to be cool with your partner viewing porn,for fear of being controlling or insecure?

He knows how you feel,he's done it anyway - you're quite entitled to your reaction. FWIW- it would be a deal breaker for me, in the same way as repeatedly doing anything else that I found distressing with a total lack of regard for my feelings would be.

And his total ineptness/lack of concern for your pleasure in bed is linked - he obviously thinks that 2 minutes with his mighty sword will be enough for you, wonder where he got that idea!

I will confess to laughing at the posters posting in an oh-so-superior manner because porn is obviously just lots of horny people get paid to do what they love...it'd be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Portofino Mon 07-Jan-13 23:18:10

Kiwi - you have this entirely skewed you know You tell you DP you don't like something at the outset. Say you don't like it and don't want him doing it. He agrees and you continue you relationship on that basis. It does not MATTER what that thing is.

6 months later - you catch him doing it, and remind him of your view and tell him to stop.

8 months later - he is still doing and it is YOUR fault as you were controlling and MADE HIM LIE.

NO, NO, NO. He had the opportunity way back when to choose between you and the behaviour. Lying about it and blaming YOU is NEVER acceptable.

PollyPeck Mon 07-Jan-13 23:20:28

Jeez - you guys are probably better apart. What are you going to do when something serious threatens your relationship rather than some nonsense around watching porn?

Portofino Mon 07-Jan-13 23:24:53

Porn is NOT nonsense. Porn is the systematic abuse of women! I mean really. Women who are raped, abused, traumatised, take drugs to survive sort of stuff. It is NOT nonsense and anyone who thinks it is needs to educate themselves. O am very sad that so many women are prepared to excuse this behaviour.

AnyFucker Germany Mon 07-Jan-13 23:26:50

But what would men do without porn ? How would they masturbate, how would they get it up ? How would they learn about what constitutes a good sexual relationship?

Oh...

WorraLiberty England Mon 07-Jan-13 23:27:21

Portfino you're forgetting the OP hasn't objected to it because of that...she just doesn't like him looking at/fantasising about other women.

I think that's why Polly mentioned nonsense.

PollyPeck Mon 07-Jan-13 23:27:32

Porn is out there. The nonsense is breaking up a relationship with children over watching it

Portofino Mon 07-Jan-13 23:30:32

It does not MATTER what the reason was - but that she explained that reason to him and he just cannot help himself It could be anything. Making it about her feelings is not the point. She ASKED HIM NOT TO DO IT. But he cannot.

StuntGirl Mon 07-Jan-13 23:30:44

I am actually surprised at so many people dismissing the OP's feelings. Just because porn doesn't matter to them doesn't mean it doesn't matter to locket. I'm quite amazed people can't see that.

It's not like she's leaving him because he eats cheese and onion crisps, yet some posters are acting as if she's basing her decision on something as trivial.

WorraLiberty England Mon 07-Jan-13 23:33:09

It all boils down to personal opinion StuntGirl

Imo viewing people copulating on your phone is as trivial as eating cheese and onion crisps.

Though I do accept that for the OP, it obviously isn't.

TheBrideofMucky Mon 07-Jan-13 23:35:11

Porn aside, no, op doesn't have the right to dictate to him what he and and can't do.

She does however have the right to leave him if he continues to do something he knows she finds hurtful and disrespectful. Which she has done. He had a choice and he made it.

Portofino Mon 07-Jan-13 23:35:48

My DH smokes pot. Probably I would prefer him not to. But if I expressed in the past that I did not want him to and he told me he would not, if I expressed that was a showstopper for me, and I caught him at it in secret....well I would be entitled to choose what I did next. That would not be me being controlling.

StuntGirl Mon 07-Jan-13 23:37:30

I suppose the nearest equivalent I can think of is pot? I know, I know - weed is illegal and porn isn't, but bear with me.

Some people are totally ok with weed, view it on the same par or better for you than cigarettes and alcohol even, and have no issues smoking it. Some people don't smoke it but tolerate their partners smoking it. Some people can't stand the thought of it at all, and would end a relationship over it. Just because one person views weed as harmless doesn't diminish the feelings of someone who is against it.

StuntGirl Mon 07-Jan-13 23:38:19

Xpost porto!

SparkyDudess Mon 07-Jan-13 23:43:42

I would have no time for a man who opted to view strangers fucking over an interactive relationship with his partner. You know - the person who's actually there, where it would be a mutually enjoyable thing? Or maybe that's the point - porn is intrinsically selfish, no need to consider anyone else. I refer back to OP's point about his 2 minute performance - he thinks that's all that's required, thanks to his 'experience'.

PollyPeck Mon 07-Jan-13 23:50:21

I'm with Worra on this one. I don't like cheese & onion crisps but wouldn't leave my DP over it.

WorraLiberty England Mon 07-Jan-13 23:52:00

To be honest if they're having sex 10 times a week and they have an 11 month old baby, 2 minutes is probably all they can fit in! grin

AThingInYourLife Tue 08-Jan-13 00:01:52

It's quite weird how many people on this thread, and on MN generally recently, think anything other than unconditional acceptance of any behaviour by a man is "controlling".

It seems to be the new way of calling a woman a fishwife.

StuntGirl Tue 08-Jan-13 00:02:25

But that's you polly. Can't you respect someone having a differing opinion?

Zara1984 Tue 08-Jan-13 00:08:15

Even though I think it's ridiculous getting so worked up and breaking up a family over porn - the real problem is that OP has made it clear porn is not acceptable to her, and her OH has ignored her. It could be porn, not pulling his weight with chores, getting drunk every Friday night - anything.

When I read the title I thought OP was upset her OH was looking at pee porn grin

ShellyBoobs Tue 08-Jan-13 00:23:10

YABU.

Do you both tell each other what you can and can't do/like or is it just one way with you doing all the telling?

I suspect the latter.

Charbon Tue 08-Jan-13 00:32:11

Even though I think it's ridiculous getting so worked up and breaking up a family over porn

It is isn't it?

What an absolutely ridiculous man.

But the OP is leaving her relationship because she's involved with a liar.

Eeebygum Tue 08-Jan-13 00:50:15

If it is "only porn", then why the fuck would one not be able to go without viewing it knowing full well that the consequences of them doing so, would spell the end of their family?

It isn't the OP who has split the family up, it is her ex who decided to lie, betray her trust and hurt her over and over again just so he could watch "only porn". He had a choice when he first got caught, or prior to that if it came up into discussion. Watch porn if that is what he wanted, but not if he wanted a relationship with her. If he had any respect for the OP, he would of either agreed to stay away from porn and mean it, or leave the relationship. He chose neither options.

Controlling him? Ha! My arse.

schnauzerfan Tue 08-Jan-13 07:03:52

I personally think it's an over reaction. To split a family up over some porn found on a phone is massive.

BinksToEnlightenment Tue 08-Jan-13 07:54:23

I haven't got time to read the whole thread, although I am familiar with the general opposing views.

I am on the side of this being a good enough reason to break up a family. If you don't love him, fine. If you do... You need to stop going through his phone looking for things to get pissed off about. Everyone is entitled to their own private thoughts and space.

BinksToEnlightenment Tue 08-Jan-13 07:54:55

Not being a good enough reason*

Cat98 Tue 08-Jan-13 07:57:20

Op, you have done the right thing. I can't believe people are totally missing the point. It's not about what you think about porn. Let's face it - it's hardly trivial. Even if you think it is - the fact remains it has broken up loads of relationships. Whoever compared it to eating cheese and onion crisps - I'm still laughing! Honestly! How many couples, really, go to relate/the divorce courts because of cheese and onion crisps?!

valiumredhead Tue 08-Jan-13 08:38:43

Prude?
For not liking porn?

Really?

Gosh, what a revelation. There was me thinking it was because it is a vile and dangerous industry that sucks in people and leaves them for dead when its finished with them.

Now I know I am just a silly prude...

That ^

Portofino Tue 08-Jan-13 09:38:54

This is the 10th time! OP already made her views perfectly clear on the subject - and broke up with him previously for the SAME reason. The twunt knows full well she has a serious objection to it and yet still does it, and lies about it. It is the sheer disrepect that he is showing her that is the issue here, not a bit of "harmless" porn.

I would not want a relationship with someone who promises me things faithfully to my face, and then does the complete opposite behind my back. I feel sorry for any of you who feel you have to put up with shit like that, so as not to "break up the family". It is not OP who is breaking anything. The twunt has chosen to abuse her trust.

Portofino Tue 08-Jan-13 09:41:09

And as for belittling Op's opinion by comparing the issue to not liking cheese and onion crisps - that is just shameful! Go the fecking sisterhood!

HeadfirstForAMistletoeKiss Tue 08-Jan-13 09:53:57

What is unreasonable is the OP's partner being unable to stop looking at porn despite knowing the detrimental affect it is having on his relationship.

The cheese and onion crisp analogy is the most uneducated unintelligent thing I've read/heard in a while too.

The porn industry is full of shocking abuse of women, it's not about disliking the "flavour".

HeadfirstForAMistletoeKiss Tue 08-Jan-13 09:58:27

Sorry, unintelligent was rude. I'm blaming PMS. I do think it shows a lack of understanding of the porn industry though.

Smudging Tue 08-Jan-13 10:25:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MsMoppet Tue 08-Jan-13 10:43:02

As two posters up thread have pointed out, and I'm astonished only two have, the 2min sex thing is almost certainly due to and /or worsened by (individual/ alone i.e. not as a couple) porn use. When watching porn you don't eek out the pleasure as you would with a partner, you rush to the finish. I was with someone for 4yrs and split up with him over lying about porn use, poor sex life due to porn use and the porn use itself as something I'd made my feelings clear on. As with the OP's partner, my boyfriend made a choice to carry on, I think he was addicted actually, and I made my choice, to kick him out.

OP this is about lying and disrespect, and is not in any way petty or unimportant.

Locketjuice Tue 08-Jan-13 10:51:15

I told him last night through text about porn and 2 minute wonder! Being related he just said what you don't enjoy having sex with me then.. Oh no for the 2 minutes its wonderful...then BOOM it's over!

Hasn't seemed to bother him maybe offended his ego which when asked why I never made an issue of it before I replied..
I'm not as horrible as yourself to damage someone's self confidence and make them feel incapable of pleasing my needs if I had known before it was related I may have rose the subject but naively thinking he was just a short performer I just let it go!

He's still texting me I love you we can work this out I'm sorry it won't happen again but as I have said many of times I can't forgive or forget being lied to and disrespected by a man that apparently loves and values me so much!

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 08-Jan-13 10:58:39

It sounds like just words OP. If he was texting you "we can make it work,I'll do xyz,I/we can go to counselling etc" then it might be different. But it does just sound like he's saying what he thinks you want to hear.

So good for you for sticking to your guns here. It does seen like he won't change and will just continue to make you unhappy by lying (and also,the 2 minute sex).

AnyFucker Germany Tue 08-Jan-13 10:59:58

This bloke just seems simply inadequate, in more ways than the porn use.

You don't have to stay with someone like that. You can dump him any time you like...directly because of the porn, indirectly because of it, because of the lying and treating you like a fool or just because you have realised he is fucking useless, actually

Locketjuice Tue 08-Jan-13 11:01:49

He's adamant he has no problem and does it simply because he was being 'stupid'

He Thought that would make me feel better so I guess he didn't expect the 'you fucking arsehole if you have no problem this is a million times worse you have no real reason to be carrying on other than you really are a selfish self centred fuck wit!'

AnyFucker Germany Tue 08-Jan-13 11:09:49

< nod >

AnyFucker Germany Tue 08-Jan-13 11:10:53

I have dumped people for less than being "stupid"

"Stupid" (who therwise have choices ) people have no place in the grown-up world and in mature relationships.

You can do better than this nob

Locketjuice Tue 08-Jan-13 11:17:38

AND only last night asked me so how far gone are you? Just to try and get me to speak hasn't said a word about pregnancy until he can't think of anything to say..

And when do you find out if its a boy or not.. Not that its our SECOND child together or anything...

Dahlen Tue 08-Jan-13 11:19:01

It's a complete myth that all men watch porn, but I've certainly noticed that younger men are far more likely than older men to watch it, probably due to the correlation with technology and the growth of the industry.

I've also found <sweeping generalisation alert> that there is a trend among younger men tend to be less respectful of women's rights and bodily autonomy. Condom use is dropping off in this age group and the number of young women scared to insist on the use of a condom because they fear rejection is thoroughly depressing.

I don't think the two are unconnected.

It's a mistake to correlate 'porn' with 'watching people have sex'. Porn is a vast industry, with the sole focus is maximising profit that often results in systematic abuse and exploitation. And yes, it is comparable with sweat shops and factories.

Being turned on by watching other people have sex is something completely different, but that's rarely what you're really seeing when you download porn.

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Tue 08-Jan-13 11:28:37

I don't think this is worth breaking up a family over tbh.
I understand you don't like porn, but many men & women look at it, there is nothing wrong in being curious aslong as it isn't weird or illegal stuff.
It's the 2 min sex that needs looking at here, not the porn use.
I think the main reason you are upset is that he looks at these sites, but puts little effort into making love to you.

Dahlen Tue 08-Jan-13 11:29:23

If his looking at porn isn't worth breaking up a family over, why doesn't he stop doing it?

IfNotNowThenWhen Tue 08-Jan-13 11:44:14

Hmm.
I hate porn for moral/ethical reasons rather than sexual ones (although most porn is laughably unerotic to me) but the fact is that the vast majority of men do watch it.
You may believe your husband to be one of the few who don't. He probably isn't. And I know that is not what anyone wants to hear, but I have a lot of brothers and male friends/ex boyfriends, and they tend to tell me the truth.
The problem is that it is so easily available. When men had to actually get a mag off the top shelf or go to a sex shop to access porn, many of them just wouldn't go that far, but with one click on a phone, I think they find it very hard to resist the temptation.
I am not saying it's right, just that it is a reality. It's not because men "need" it, it's just that the desire to see naked women tends to be stronger than any ethical considerations. It is depressing.
I actually think you would be hard pressed to find a man who never looks at porn, especially a younger man, since they have grown up with easily accessible online stuff. Most of the 30/40 something men I know may use it occasionally, but are not really that enamoured of it.
You can actually tell when having sex with men who have watched a lot of porn, that they have. They sort of fast forward through the boring bits-you know, like foreplay.
I would probably have dumped him long ago for being a 2 minute man tbh.

MiniTheMinx Tue 08-Jan-13 11:45:26

I think there is a link between the 2 minute performance and the porn and the lack of respect for OP ( or women in general )

It's no accident that on this thread that the people that are invalidating OPs opinion are the porn apologists and those who claim to watch it. Completely overlooking personal boundaries and the issue of trust. Of course, they mistakenly believe that the right to watch the denigration of women to mere commodities trumps a women's right to hold an opinion or set personal boundaries and expectations.

IfNotNowThenWhen Tue 08-Jan-13 11:54:00

X post Dahlen. Yeah, I agree with you about the bodily autonomy thing actually, and the condom use.
I am staggered how many men are prepared to have sex minus a condom.
It really needs impressing upon our sons that if you are prepared to have sex without a condom you are basically agreeing to pay 18 years worth of child support and/or live with Aids.
Also, porn has popularised things like hair pulling, slapping and coming in women's faces. Now, I am not averse to a bit of playful slapping, but in my face?? I think not.
I am a 30 something woman though, and have the confidence to say "hold up there Sonny Jim", not some insecure teenager who just goes along with being degraded because it's become normal.

MadCap Tue 08-Jan-13 11:56:04

Mini, there's no doubt in my mind that there's a link between having the first opinion and thinking that a woman is allowed an opinion.

Locketjuice Tue 08-Jan-13 12:09:52

Sorry to be graphic, the only foreplay he really wants is a blowjob.. But can't be just a blowjob he wants a full on show of pure deep throat (sorry!)
I'm thinking this is all linked in there somewhere too!

AnyFucker Germany Tue 08-Jan-13 12:22:37

yuk

IfNotNowThenWhen Tue 08-Jan-13 12:30:28

Right. He doesn't actually want to have sex with another person, he want to do porn. Watching a lot of porn is definitely not the way to learn how to have sex with a woman.

Mia4 Tue 08-Jan-13 12:57:20

Locketjuice, if this is your breakpoint you need to hold true to it. His words are just words, his actions have spoken the truth many many times. He wasn't being stupid, it wasn't a once off moment, this is consistant and current and he won't change. Not without help and counselling for your relationship as a while. And even possibly not at all.

The things you are describing during sex are a bit worrying, they would flag a possible addition-despite his denials. But porn aside, this is about trust. If you agree to something and then constantly do the opposite and hide it then you're not trusting your partner to be honest with them and stand your ground or asking to work the relationship by trying counselling/compromise.

And it's very hurtful to be the person lied to, especially constantly because if you lie once who knows how much more you can and over what. It makes you also distrust them and get paranoid. This definitely boils down to trust, you know deep down he won't change or you wouldn't be looking through his phone. Question is where do you go from here?

That's down to you but as I've said, he isn't going to change on this any time soon. Really you need to possibly be apart and have counselling on all these issues: the trust, the relationship and your sex life.

Locketjuice Tue 08-Jan-13 12:58:30

The thing is I wouldn't care if he wanted to video us
He knows this he said that he doesn't understand why people would?
I want to know what it is exactly he's in to but won't say just I don't know and when asked if I could do anything for you like ANYTHING he said dont know a blow job.... That's hardly imaginative for a man that watches countless videos..

Disaronno Tue 08-Jan-13 13:01:12

He knew the rules and he chose porn, sorry.

Blistory Tue 08-Jan-13 13:02:18

^ It's not because men "need" it, it's just that the desire to see naked women tends to be stronger than any ethical considerations. It is depressing^

It's more than depressing, that ^^ thinking about men's desire overriding their ethical consideration is why we accept women being abused, beaten, raped and killed. Stop excusing the use of porn by saying it's an intrinsic part of man's nature. That does the good ones a disservice and allows prats like the OP's partner to wallow in self pity about how unreasonable and controlling women can be.

StuntGirl Tue 08-Jan-13 13:03:52

I only brought up the crisps analogy to show how silly some posters scornful reactions have been, only for them all to go "Crisps and porn are equal in my hierarchy of trivialities". I don't have anywhere to go after that; if someone can't empathise that while they accept porn as 'a bit of fun' for others the impact of the industry as a whole is a serious matter, then I really don't know where to go with that.

Leverette Tue 08-Jan-13 13:12:34

I don't have links to the resources, but there is plenty of serious research evidence demonstrating that when a man uses porn, his partner feels less attractive AND the man views her as less attractive.

The upshot for me is that why, having had it explained numerous times, does a man continue to indulge in something that <harms the woman he claims to love>.

Does it not occur to him that the women he's viewing are all someone's daughter, friend, partner, parent? IME male porn users are shocking hypocrites who have totally objectified the women they wank over as nothing of greater substance than a Big Mac.

IfNotNowThenWhen Tue 08-Jan-13 14:09:45

I am not saying that using porn is an intrinsic part of mens' nature at all. And I am far from excusing it. All I am doing is pointing out the fact that most men DO use it.
So it is an intrinsic part of their behaviour. That is just a fact.
Why this may be, well, there are probably a lot of reasons, some of possibly them related to a sense of power that men get from being able to view women doing sexually graphic things. I say that because ime men who are sexually confident and have lots of girlfriends tend to not be all that interested in porn.

MrsBethel Tue 08-Jan-13 14:54:50

"Disaronno Tue 08-Jan-13 13:01:12
He knew the rules and he chose porn, sorry. "

Lot of comments along this line.

By the same logic, if the UK had the death penalty for shoplifting, you could justify it by saying "the criminal knew the punishment and chose to commit the crime".

The 'ultimatum' approach to solving marital problems just isn't helpful. It is a marital problem in itself. It is an attempt to claim power in a relationship. It's not the way to handle any issue with someone you really love.

Most porn problems come down to a difference of opinion:
To me it is unethical, and tantamount to cheating.
To most men it seems to hold no value; it's a bodily function; like going for a shit.
The solution? I'm not sure there is one. Condone it and I'm a doormat. Forbid it? Is that going to work? People only tend to obey rules they agree with, and remember men think porn is harmless. An ultimatum simply raises the stakes. But will it foster a spirit of cooperation?

AnyFucker Germany Tue 08-Jan-13 15:09:24

MrsB, here are a couple of novelty ideas..

1) How about men educate themselves about the realities of porn? Perhaps they would be a bit less blase about how actually their orgasm comes at a price.

2) How about women stop defending men's right to use porn over the justifiably hurt feelings of the women that object to it. Less pressure on women from other women to be "cool" with it would be great

3) How about we all stop the relentless march of normalisation of the selling of sex and the harm it does to our society as a whole

MrsBethel Tue 08-Jan-13 15:51:51

The crux of the problem is that I think it's unethical, but men (generally) don't.

MiniTheMinx Tue 08-Jan-13 16:04:51

Men have far too much vested interest in denying the harm.

Blistory Tue 08-Jan-13 16:12:13

Well men need to be told that it's unethical, that it is harmful, that it's not a bodily function or a need they can't control. That it could be their daughter or wife or sister that some freak is wanking over. That women are harmed in the making of porn. That they're not entitled to access to women's bodies just because they want.

Entitlement to wank over a picture of a naked woman really isn't that far from entitlement to have sex with a woman just because you're a man. That's rape and all because they think they have an entitlement to women. Because we're not worth it. Well, fuck that. And if that makes me a prude or uptight or controlling, I'll take that over having to tolerate porn because it really is only the tip of the iceberg.

And now we have young girls being pressured into 'sexting' because it's becoming the norm. All because we refuse to address what porn really is and the harm that it does. It normalises abuse of women. It's not about sex, it's about abuse.

Proudnscary Tue 08-Jan-13 16:39:55

Well I'm dragging this back to a more general point!

It's a bit stupid to say 'What, you're ending your marriage over porn??'.

Anyone's bad habits or unreasonable behaviour can destroy a marriage tiny bit by tiny bit over years. It might not seem like a massive deal to someone else - their partner watching porn, or smoking, or drinking too much a few times a month, or not helping round the house - but over time it can erode all the good stuff. Especially where there have been lies and deciet.

In fact if OP had come on here and said that her husband had never once emptied the dishwasher or cooked a meal despite her pleading and that he'd promised for years he would but never did, I bet there would be more support for her in considering ending the marriage!

Angelfootprints Tue 08-Jan-13 18:41:59

Really sorry your going through this op. It makes me genuinely sad to think another family somewhere in the country is now split apart over yet another selfish mans right to get his kicks elsewhere despite knowing the potential hurt.

If it was just a one of mistake I would hope you could forgive and move on- but ten times? Thats just ridiculos.

Be prepared for him to think this is no "biggie" as you forgave him 9 times before though, so dont be surprised if he seems lax in reaction in the early days.

slhilly Tue 08-Jan-13 20:46:54

I don't think men are going to stop using porn because others are harmed when it is made. Most people don't change their behaviour, by and large, for ethical reasons like that. There is extensive info out there to help us buy just about every product in existence in a way that causes less harm, from bank accounts to tablet computers to meat to transport options. Most of those remain niche, with the exception of some food items where the retailers have pushed eg bananas. Statute, or at least regulation, is required to effect fundamental change. But there would surely be an enormous black market.

I guess the only posssible model for behaviour change would be a social movement coupled with legislation, that shifted the behaviour from mainstream to fringe, a la drink driving, which would probably work best if coupled with a movement promoting the meme that sex is better when you don't use porn.

I don't mean to be defeatist, but it is important to be clear about the type of solutions likely to work.

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