'My kids never screamed like that' - old bag says loudly at the supermarket checkout...

(335 Posts)
TeenTwinsToddlerandTiaras Sat 05-Jan-13 18:14:22

about my DS (2). He is a screamer and it drives me nuts. Not when it's just me and him but when my older DSs are anywhere near him - he wants what they've got, wants to do what they're doing. He's trying to dominate, it's the pack mentality!

He screamed around Tescos as he was in the trolley and he wanted to put the food in the trolley. He screamed at the checkout as he wanted OUT! Cue santimonious, smug middle aged woman making the above comment very loudly. I don't want him to scream either but short of putting a sock in it, what can I do? I should have asked her what her secret was but I just glared.

Really unnecessary comment that only made me feel more shit and stressed and angry.

BREATHE!!!!

'Well good for you' would have been my answer

LadyKinbote Sat 05-Jan-13 18:17:06

"That's interesting. My Grandmother never made outrageously rude comments like that either."

grin

BluelightsAndSirens Sat 05-Jan-13 18:19:09

A whispered fuck off normally does the trick.

TeenTwinsToddlerandTiaras Sat 05-Jan-13 18:19:31

I wanted to say 'you must have a short memory then', just heightens my frustration that I did'nt!

CaptChaos Sat 05-Jan-13 18:20:35

I'm sure supermarkets employ these women to make those of us with less than 'perfect' children feel like shit.

'Well! A round of applause for Mrs Helpy!' could be a useful phrase?

BadDog Sat 05-Jan-13 18:21:16

im on team old bag

ILoveTIFFANY Sat 05-Jan-13 18:22:49

Old bag??

LeonieDeSainteVire Sat 05-Jan-13 18:24:39

Well I bet it was luck and not her superior parenting that meant hers didn't scream. Neither of my older two screamed, my third does and it drives me crackers. But as you say OP how can you stop them short of a gag?

I can't think of any clever retorts I'm afraid.

fedupofnamechanging Sat 05-Jan-13 18:25:58

"Old age does terrible things to one's memory" is a good response.

I doubt very much if her kids never had a tantrum.

PartTimeModel Sat 05-Jan-13 18:26:05

I'd like to think I'd smile and her and simPly HISS! But I'd probably say something inane instead.

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 18:27:12

Old Bag?
Middle aged?
You lost me there Op [angry}

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 18:27:34

Or angry even].

NippyDrips Sat 05-Jan-13 18:27:53

Oohh I like karmas response!

ILoveTIFFANY Sat 05-Jan-13 18:28:01

Well you are both as rude as each other I think!

Totally lacking in empathy and not helping anyone. Silly woman.

I've had similar, old man telling me how to parent. I asked 'if he was so good at it, would he like to take DS?'
He refused, so I told him to keep his opinions to himself and flounced off with screaming child in tow!
People like this get right on my tits!

We3NipplesOfVoldiesWeAre Sat 05-Jan-13 18:30:09

My answer used to be "He wants his own way, he'd really like to run round the shop and help himself to sweets and toys, obviously he's not allowed so he's having a tantrum." People would soon remember the difficulties that toddlers present.

I would have started throwing packets of food at her to be honest. Foul old fucker wink

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 18:31:40

Agree with Lady BeagleEyes

Yes: she was judgmental. She may be middle aged (though I don't see why that's relevant to whether she was rude)

But "Old bag"? Did you mean to be so rude - and ageist?

oldpeculiar Sat 05-Jan-13 18:32:42

I was on your side until you refered to middle age as 'old'

Narked Sat 05-Jan-13 18:32:45

'Old bag'?

biscuit

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 18:33:14

* Foul old fucker*

And there's another one. angry

TeenTwinsToddlerandTiaras Sat 05-Jan-13 18:34:31

Oh the 'professionally offended' are out in force I see. She was middle aged as in at at age where her DCs were older or had left home (so relevant to potential short memory) and she WAS an old bag. Sorry!

CaptChaos Sat 05-Jan-13 18:34:41

Oh dear! I've suddenly realised that I might be classed as an old bag as I am middle aged.... when does one become middle aged anyway now? Is it still 35? Or later. When can I tut at people in supermarkets? When's my turn!

envy

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 18:36:01

Don't bother to say "sorry" - you aren't. And what's with the "professionally offended" jibe?

I just think you sound every bit as rude as you think she was.

Narked Sat 05-Jan-13 18:37:14

Do you mean to sound so obnoxious?

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 18:37:51

Funnily enough I was never ever shown anything but sympathetic looks from others (both young mums and middle aged/old alike, when I had a toddler.
I'm now middle aged myself and TBH don't even notice small children, it's just part and parcel of supermarket shopping, with all the bleeps and the voices over the tannoy and the noise.
I'm constantly amazed by the number of Mumsnetters' that experience 'foul old fuckers' shock wherever they go.
I must live in a different planet town.

mumofthemonsters808 Sat 05-Jan-13 18:40:11

Well hers might not of done, but mine certainly does pretty much as you describe.You did very well to control your temper the last thing you needed during an outburst is a comment like that.People have very short memories and can be so intolerant and judgemental about other people's children.You will laugh about this in years to come!!.

TeenTwinsToddlerandTiaras Sat 05-Jan-13 18:40:33

CaptChaoshow about don't tut or make stupid comments at all no matter what your age.

She was probably around 60. Thought I was being generous referring to her as middle aged. I am 41 if that helps. I doubt she will be upset about me referring to her as an old bag on here as she is unlikely to read it but if she happens to be an MNer - 'you're an old bag' <blows raspberry>. hmm

DameMargotFountain Sat 05-Jan-13 18:41:43

yup, because no-one over 40 has a young child hmm

what if i rocked onto thread and called you a silly young girl who can't control her DC?

which bit would you find most offensive?

i'm sorry if the woman hurt your feelings and was wrong about you, but i totally get where the others are coming from about ageism.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 18:42:09

Well, it would be interesting to see how your children develop and form their attitudes to the elderly with such a role model...

DameMargotFountain Sat 05-Jan-13 18:43:20

in light of your most recent posting on thread, i say grow the fuck up, OP

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 18:43:52

So your'e 41 Op?
Therefore middle aged.
I'd never have guessed as your post sounded like a stroppy teenager.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 18:44:16

Well, DameMargot - it appears that the OP is 41. She just sounds like a rude, truculent child.

splintersinmebum Sat 05-Jan-13 18:44:17

If your kids are as foul as their mother ...

TeenTwinsToddlerandTiaras Sat 05-Jan-13 18:44:39

Oh pleaseeee. Ageism schageism. Would it have been OK to call her a bloody cow then or is that offensive to cows?

MN at it's best.

BadDog Sat 05-Jan-13 18:44:52

i hate screaming kids. stop him fgs

OryxCrake Sat 05-Jan-13 18:46:42

Yes, she was rude and sorry you're feeling upset.

No need for the ageist stuff, though. Plenty of people of all ages wouldn't do this, and some (of all ages) would.

TeenTwinsToddlerandTiaras Sat 05-Jan-13 18:47:23

If your kids are as foul as their mother ... my belly is aching with laughter.

Oh yippee, here we go with the 'your poor children'. Why am I surprised hmm.

I am only assume that the vast majority of posters on here ARE old bags.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 18:47:34

I wanted to say 'you must have a short memory then', just heightens my frustration that I did'nt!

Oh, and your inability to respond assertively to situations is your problem.

JustAHolyFool Sat 05-Jan-13 18:47:47

You know when you say "professionally offended" it makes it sound like you aren't really able to express a valid argument, right?

"Old bag" is a pretty grim thing to say. No, she shouldn't have said it, but there's no need to be rude about her in return.

CaptChaos Sat 05-Jan-13 18:47:52

Teens sorry, was trying to be lighthearted, obviously backfired!

I wouldn't tut at all, my DS is Autistic, so spent most of his life being tutted at by people of all ages. I used to end up telling them that he was and asking what their problem was.

If you read my first post, I was actually supporting you wink

DameMargotFountain Sat 05-Jan-13 18:49:18

yup, dummy is well and truly out now

i was sympathetic to you at first, OP

now, not at all

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 18:50:03

Which means, Chaos you were able to tackle the situation like an adult - a skill the OP evidently lacks.

TeenTwinsToddlerandTiaras Sat 05-Jan-13 18:51:01

"Old bag" is a pretty grim thing to say. My god, you should get out more.

THIS IS AN ANONYMOUS FORUM AND THIS WOMAN DOES NOT KNOW I CALLED HER AN OLD BAG, I DID NOT CALL IT HER TO HER FACE. FFS!

I was going to offer you sympathy, as my son is a screamer and is very loud and throws a lot of tantrums. It wasn't helpful what she said and I can appreciate that when you posted, you were probably still very angry.

But your post at 18.47 is very harsh. I would walk away from the thread now tbh. It's not going to improve on here, or grab your hard hat.

soulresolution Sat 05-Jan-13 18:52:19

An old woman once told me to chuck ds in the sea when he was continually crying and complaining during a gruelling channel crossing! I was outraged at the time and told her to shut her horrible gob. Now I can feel her pain a bit...

It was rude and not helpful of the woman in your post but you can bet there were plenty of others in the shop thinking along the same lines. Dealing with this stuff is just part of the process of parenting as I'm sure you know.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 18:52:41

You just don't get it, do you? It's nothing to do with whether you said it to her face.

landofsoapandglory Sat 05-Jan-13 18:54:14

It's not polite to call someone names, no matter how old they are!

I'm with BadDog on this. I hate screaming kids, it hurts my ears and gives me headaches. Please try to stop him.

CheCazzo Sat 05-Jan-13 18:56:50

Popcorn anyone? Iced lolly? Bag of Maynard's Sports Mix?

grin

LeonieDeSainteVire Sat 05-Jan-13 18:57:42

I hate hearing screaming kids too, I genuinely hate that my child does it. But how do you stop them - genuine question?

LightTheLampNotTheRat Sat 05-Jan-13 19:00:47

I've honestly never thought the term 'old bag' referred to age - just obnoxious behaviour. Maybe I'm wrong? I tell nine-year-old DD not to be such an old bag when she's being mean or obnoxious. I tell DH I'm sorry for being such an old bag when I've been behaving like a cow to him.

The OP wasn't being ageist, as I read it - just expressing exasperation with a judgey person in a shop. I encounter old bags all the time, personally - of all ages.

JesusInTheCabbageVan Sat 05-Jan-13 19:01:24

Would everyone like to sort themselves into two camps to keep this looming bunfight tidy:

1) Those who are pissed off because the OP thinks 'middle aged' is old.
2) Those who are pissed off because the OP has used the term 'old bag'

It's just neater that way grin

JustAHolyFool Sat 05-Jan-13 19:03:19

OP, yes, I should get out more. Good comeback. I am totally burnt here. Ouchy.

KobayashiMaru Sat 05-Jan-13 19:03:32

You never thought that old referred to a persons age? Really? hmm

FiveFlowers Sat 05-Jan-13 19:04:33

Ffs, yet another ageist thread hmm.

OP, in your eyes I am an 'old bag' - old enough to be your mother - and my children weren't allowed to scream when we were out as we had consideration for others; something that is sadly lacking nowadays in some people.

I hate spoiled, undisciplined children - or rather their parents who make them that way.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 19:05:09

"Old bag" relates to age as I understand the term.

I think the OP has flounced.

Schlock Sat 05-Jan-13 19:05:12

Hah, I used to hold dd2 under my armpit whilst she screamed, during the school pickup because she was having a screaming hab dab at 3pm but there was nothing I could do about it because she was a toddler. Social services haven't been informed as yet. She's 13 now so I doubt they will be.

Moominsarehippos Sat 05-Jan-13 19:05:25

Am I an old bag? I don't feel like one... Anyhoo, why do people assume that parents don't mind their kids screaming blue murder? These are the same people who would tutut if you gave the child the sweets or let them out of the pram to grab things.

I would have said 'is that because you had him stuffed up a chimney?' - one I inherited from my mum.

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 19:06:09

Well the Op is apparently middle aged or certainly approaching it at 41 so I don't understand why's she's applying that label to someone who's as close in age to her as young mums in their late 20's/30's.
Old bag and foul old fucker are never OK IMO.

diaimchlo Sat 05-Jan-13 19:07:55

I am not "professionally Offended" by your inappropriate OLD Bag comment I am personally offended I am 54 and guess what I am a Mumsnetter.

With the attitude you have shown relating to this I think you are being very unreasonable. The person you are moaning about was rude in what she said and tbh it would have been more appropriate for you to not have dragged yourself down to her level by giving her an evil look. At 41 I would have expected a more mature response to the situation.

landofsoapandglory Sat 05-Jan-13 18:54:14

>>>> I'm with BadDog on this. I hate screaming kids, it hurts my ears and gives me headaches. Please try to stop him. <<<<

I don't think anyone likes screaming kids, but just be grateful it's not yours and you can at least get away from it!

[mother of a DD who was an horrendous screamer as a baby and toddler!]

LifeofPo Sat 05-Jan-13 19:09:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 19:12:05

Is it me that just doesn't notice them?
Maybe I'm so middle aged now I need a hearing aid.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 19:13:10

diaimchlo - well said.

baskingseals Sat 05-Jan-13 19:13:28

well i am with the op.

it is horrible enough dealing with your screaming child, without somebody adding to it.

so i take it that people not seeing this from the op's point of view have NEVER EVER in their entire lives had to deal with a child being a pain in public?

MichelleRooJnr Sat 05-Jan-13 19:13:53

My kids never screamed like that
Sanctimonious? Smug? Old Bag?
You glared?

She made a comment!
She didn't swear, call you names, call your child names, or even complain!
A comment has made you this angry confused
Maybe you need to reconsider taking your 'screamer' into supermarkets until you're able to handle the exasperation that other shoppers are entitled to express.

LifeofPo Sat 05-Jan-13 19:14:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

maxybrown Sat 05-Jan-13 19:14:28

argh I hate this!

A couple of weeks ago I was rushing through town and there was a little girl of about 3 bawling and bawling and looking very defiant. Her Mum was stood about 3 feet away looking very exasperated and totally down trodden. Some old woman stopped to stare and said really loudly to the little girl - "Oh deary deary me.............oh dear oh dear" followed my some more helpful comments............I felt like shoving her over and rushing to buy the Muma big bar of chocolate...................gah

maxybrown Sat 05-Jan-13 19:16:32

Just to say, I hate screaming kids too - but you still have my sympathy as although DS has never ever done this, he has done other things - he is most probably AS (waiting on formal diag) and screaming children send HIM into a meltdown grin

Leonie I've been giving my son time outs/ sanctions etc, asking him to talk to me in his 'house voice' etc for quite some time. It's slow going but when you're out and about, trips tend to be cut short or similar if he goes into meltdown sad So I definitely do not have any answers. I've carried him fireman lift style on School runs many times in the past. I'm hoping time and consistency will help and his speech improving some more, so he can say it with words iyswim.

He's 4 today and it's lessened a lot but he still has his moments. I spend my life worrying what people think of his behaviour and my parenting and afraid of being judged, so this thread is making me feel worse.

Mackem please tell me it does improve, it sounds like your DD has?

hazeyjane Sat 05-Jan-13 19:17:09

I agree with the old bag comments being unecessary, but

*and my children weren't allowed to scream when we were out as we had consideration for others; something that is sadly lacking nowadays in some people.

I hate spoiled, undisciplined children - or rather their parents who make them that way.*

...really?! Lots of children scream, for all sorts of reasons, and sometimes it is just impossible to stop them.

Btw the house voice thing, is due to the fact he seems loud even at home, when he's not having a tantrum. He has no volume control but I'm trying! sad

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 19:20:31

I honestly don't, Life of Po grin
Supermarkets are a stressful enough experience already, it's just part of the experience.
If I was on a plane or something, I would notice, but always feel sorry for the parents and to a certain extent, switch off
If I can't I stick my earphones on and ignore.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 19:20:58

I'm in full agreement with the fact that sometimes children scream and it's impossible to stop them.

I just think the OP should have been able to deal with the situation like an adult, not a passive aggressive child, and there was no need whatsoever for her obnoxious behaviour and offensive comments on this thread.

gimmecakeandcandy Sat 05-Jan-13 19:21:09

Ffs people chill outtttt about the old bag comment! Op is annoyed and is calling her an old bag here - and for the souNds of iT she was a nasty old cowbag!

Shame you didn't tell her to fuck off op! grin

timidviper Sat 05-Jan-13 19:22:40

Like diaimchlo I would have been more sympathetic if you weren't so insulting (I am 52 so, no doubt, an old bag in your classifications)

She was rude but you don't know her situation, she may have had a stressful day and your ear-splitting little darling was something of a last straw.

Just out of curiosity, what are you doing to teach him not to scream? As someone else mentioned upthread, if he screamed all the way around, there will have been a lot of folks disapproving and she will have just been the one that said it.

PessaryPam Sat 05-Jan-13 19:23:07

CheCazzo Popcorn anyone? Iced lolly? Bag of Maynard's Sports Mix?

CheCazzo Werther's Originals might be more appropriate. grin

Oi OP less of the old, there's a dear.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Sat 05-Jan-13 19:23:41

Noun1.old bag - an ugly or ill-tempered woman; "he was romancing the old bag for her money"
bag
disagreeable woman, unpleasant woman - a woman who is an unpleasant person

Definition for ye.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 19:24:27

If she was annoyed she should have dealt with it assertively at the time.

And I don't need you to tell me to "chill out" because I object to ageist, offensive language. Are you going to defend the poster who referred to the woman as a "foul old fucker" as well?

baskingseals Sat 05-Jan-13 19:26:28

dontstepon - you sound like you are doing a great job with your son. parenting is bloody hard work, and people making snidey comments are the ones who should be ashamed of themselves, not the people dealing with loud screaming children.

JustFabulous Sat 05-Jan-13 19:27:33

Those complaining about the OP calling the woman an old bag need to think about the fact that the woman is highly unlikely to read this, and therefore is not offended/hurt, but the OP was criticised in person.

baskingseals Sat 05-Jan-13 19:28:26

i think there's a difference between foul old fucker and old bag.

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 19:28:34

Quite ilovesooty.
At 41 with a teen, twins and a toddler you'd have thought she'd have reacted to this as a middle aged grown up woman.
I'm going by her nn for that information BTW.grin

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 19:28:51

<sigh>

Whether she's likely to read it isn't relevant.

DaisyBuchannan Sat 05-Jan-13 19:29:09

She was an old bag. Get over it sensitive wrinklies.

PessaryPam Sat 05-Jan-13 19:29:23

I think those of us over 50 may be quite offended as a by product of the OPs tirade.

DaisyBuchannan Sat 05-Jan-13 19:29:39

<spoon>

PessaryPam Sat 05-Jan-13 19:30:45

<stir>

baskingseals Sat 05-Jan-13 19:31:56

age is nothing but a number anyway

timidviper Sat 05-Jan-13 19:33:35

Can I also just remind you OP that parenting changes over the years (see the recent thread on here about lax parenting of the 70s, etc)

Speaking as somebody with children in their 20s, I can tell you that "bad behaviour" from children was far more frowned upon back then and parents were expected to "control" their children. If she was 10 years older than me she may well have children in their 30s who would have been smacked enough by the age of 2 that they might not be trying to dominate and showing pack mentality in public. I'm not saying I approve of that btw but it is how things were back then.

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 19:36:09

Well I'm in my 50's and I didn't have a child till I was 39.
And I had a misspent youth up till my late 20's and fuck it was fun.

Kendodd Sat 05-Jan-13 19:38:56

"She was an old bag. Get over it sensitive wrinklies."

Agreed. I can be a bit of an old bag myself sometimes though.

I once pushed DD2 around the Tesco at arms length while she sat tantruming and trying to grab me from the trolley seat. I was chatting happily to her about what I was putting in the trolley. A pensioner came up to me and said she thought I was very sensible to just ignore it and not get to stressed about it, smiling knowingly at DD2. She wasn't an old bag, she was nice. smile

fufulina Sat 05-Jan-13 19:38:57

The is a story in my family that when my cousin was changing her DD's nappy, her mother sniffed loudly, and said 'my babies never did anything like that in their nappies'.

Hilarious.

Even poo is erased from memory!

lecce Sat 05-Jan-13 19:48:38

I can't believe this thread.

OP was dealing with a horrible situation that she clearly can't have been enjoying; unhelpful person made a really annoying, mean-spirited comment that wasn't helpful in any way, and was probably untrue; OP starts this thread to let off steam about it and is accused being horribly ageist due to a throw-away remark - of course it is relevant whether the woman in question is aware of having been alled an 'old bag', ffs! I also don't think a glare can fairly be termed 'obnoxious behaviour'.

Now people are offering such gems as 'stay out of supermarkets until he stops doing it' hmm and telling us how children screaming makes their ears hurt. Why are so many people so mean and lacking in understanding when it comes to the difficulties of bringing up children? Plenty of things annoy me when I go out in public, but that's tough - you don't go to a supermarket or a peaceful, relaxing time.

My dc have never been screamers but they are going through another phase which could be annoying to others and which dh and I are trying to deal with. We avoided supermarkets today but if I had been subjected to a remark such as the OP was today, I might have welled up, which would have been immature and embarrassing for all parties, no doubt, but, sometimes, when you are sruggling a bit, you don't always come out with the perfectly-assertive-but-in-no-way-aggressive comeback.

Hope your evening was quieter, OP.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 19:52:14

It isn't relevant. I find the remark (as well as the OP's subsequent comments, and the "foul old fucker" contribution from someone else) regardless of the likelihood of the woman in question seeing it.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 19:52:58

I meant "I find the remark offensive"

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 19:59:37

You really think that all the people that disagreed with the Op or are middle aged have never brought up children themselves lecce?
My ds is 17, he wasn't perfect as a toddler, but I never experienced 'old bags' remarking about his behaviour in supermarkets.
And these are words I've never taught him either.
Nasty and ageist. But the elderly are the last target on MN, we can say what we like about them.
And can I just remind everybody on here, middle age and old age is coming to you.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 20:04:54

the elderly are the last target on MN, we can say what we like about them

Absolutely.

Mrsrudolphduvall Sat 05-Jan-13 20:05:57

I am 52 and technically an old bag.
I am not professionally offended.
I mutter old bag at women in their 70s sometimes.

peaceandlovebunny Sat 05-Jan-13 20:07:29

i can't believe this thread either.

the o p is rude in the opening post and continues to be rude in further posts. not a person i'd like to meet in tesco or anywhere else. with her screaming child that she doesn't do anything about - anti-social and unpleasant. and not taking responsibility.

the nosey woman making unhelpful remarks doesn't deserve any support either. for goodness sake, the mum had enough to cope with, doing the shopping and the child kicking off.

in conclusion, therefore, i would say that i don't like any of you and don't want to shop in 'your' tesco.

nothing new there, then.

okthen Sat 05-Jan-13 20:09:08

Dd (2) threw a tantrum on the street a few weeks ago- refusing to get into buggy, lying on floor, the works. I had newborn ds in sling and was still a bit post-partum, so couldn't just pick her up and plonk her in.

A lovely woman in her 70s I'd guess, stopped and talked dd down from the ledge. In moments she was climbing into her buggy. I cried with gratitude.

Just thought I'd balance out the op with an example of very welcome intergenerational interference!

lecce Sat 05-Jan-13 20:11:16

You really think that all the people that disagreed with the Op or are middle aged have never brought up children themselves lecce?

No of course not, what did I say that implied that? I said people lack understanding but I know that people often lack understanding of things that they have actually experienced - like people who were beaten saying "It never did me any harm," type thing- people often don't remember things that make unpleasant remembering - like the time their kid screamed in public and they couldn't make it stop.

Fwiw, I have only ever had kindess from (mainly more mature, tbf smile) strangers while my dc have been playing up, but that doesn't alter the fact that the OP had a very nasty comment made to her - or are people accusing her of making it up confused?

HumphreyCobbler Sat 05-Jan-13 20:11:46

when ds went through his screaming phase I FUCKING HATED IT. There was nothing I could do to stop him other than removing him from the situation or gagging him. Unsurprisingly I went for the former option, but occasionally I had to do a supermarket shop with him in tow (online not available then).

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 20:15:05

She did have an unpleasant comment made to her. I still object to her thread title and the comments she made. I maintain that she seems as unpleasant and rude as the person she took issue with.

HollaAtMeBaby Sat 05-Jan-13 20:16:59

I can't stand hearing children do that high-pitched piercing rage scream in public. It makes my hand itch to slap them. But it's not that hard to smile indulgently, remind myself that I only have to tolerate it for a few seconds, and briskly walk away until I'm out of earshot, so I'm going to say YANBU.

peanutMD Sat 05-Jan-13 20:25:54

To be fair to the OP we ask get a but wound up and say things which irritate people sometimes.

I've heard my great Gran (81), my Gran (60) and my mum (43) refer to woen older than them as old bags. I see it as a comment referring more to their attitude than the person themselves.

Two old ladies were standing behind us a few Weeks ago in the bus queue and began gossiping about how horrible it was that young parents (I'm 26) were so determined to have their kids grow up fast... This was because DS(6) had gotten a pattern shaved into the side of his head because all the other school kids have it (I hate it!!).

I turned round and told the ladies, who were clearly in their 70's, "excuse me but for what its worth I am 26 not 16, my son is 6 years old and perfectly capable of making a choice about his hairstyle so I'd appreciate if they could keep their opinions to themselves as I don't want him picking up such rude habits from others"

They looked at me as if I'd just nicked their granny trolleys but it shut them up grin

FanFuckingTastic Sat 05-Jan-13 20:26:18

At least it's only in the supermarket, I have my neighbour round telling me to shut my screaming kids up, moaning about his wife with arthritis getting no sleep. I'm like, uhuh, doing my best here on my own, kids with special needs and I have arthritis myself, so not being competitive about our woes, but if I could make them quiet I bloody would. You have the choice to wear ear plugs mate, I have to be awake and respond to her all night no matter how much pain I am in.

Miserable sod! Used to be really nice to me too, totally blank me since then.

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Sat 05-Jan-13 20:28:08

Yanbu op, but i'd just like to say not all middle aged people are like this.
Infact a lovely lady in kfc helped me by holding onto my pram whilst i battled to get my tantruming 2yo back into it. She smiled politey held my pram as it kept tipping and smiled sweetly at my dd and talked to her and in an instant my dd stopped crying!smile That lady made me feel so much better as the whole of the restaurant were staring at me.

fleacircus Sat 05-Jan-13 20:30:35

I bet they did, she's just forgotten.

crashdoll Sat 05-Jan-13 20:34:55

Middle aged is old??!! Geez Louise, people are living longer and longer these days.

tettoni Sat 05-Jan-13 20:40:35

Supermarkets are vile and stressful, so small children (who lack impulse control and general control of their own lives) often cry in them. And so it will always be. It doesn't mean they're spoilt ffs. And anyone who comments when I'm out with my kids will get much worse treatment than the OP gave this woman, in RL or on here.

For what it's worth, I'm with Penelope Leach on this one: remember whose side your on (answer for those that need it: your child's).

tettoni Sat 05-Jan-13 20:41:23

*you're blush

lecce Sat 05-Jan-13 20:43:01

Ok, so on reflection I get it now. Her age should not have been mentioned, no? So the thread should have been called, "blah, blah ...says arsehole in the supermarket". I can go along with that.

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 20:45:29

Anyway, our coming up to middle age OP seems to have buggered off.

Nancy66 Sat 05-Jan-13 20:45:32

your kid sounds badly behaved.

hazeyjane Sat 05-Jan-13 20:47:01

Screaming doesn't necessarily mean bad behaved.

spanky2 Sat 05-Jan-13 20:49:21

My ds2 was just the same .sad Order online shopping worth the money . He is 5 now and doesn't do it anymore . Don't listen to to anyone who is judgmental. My phone adds extra words. It is demoralising though isn't it?

peanutMD Sat 05-Jan-13 20:49:37

Out of curiosity Nancy, does the 66 equate to the year you were born?

Just trying to justify that comment... wink

Nancy66 Sat 05-Jan-13 20:53:27

peanut - not quite - but not far off....

yep, I'm an old bag. Maybe that's why i side with my fellow old bags.

I can picture the OP now....kids running riot, screaming, knocking things over, ramming the trolley into other shoppers and mother just pretending it's not happening and blaming everyone esle.

See it every week.

spanky2 Sat 05-Jan-13 20:57:40

Yikes Nancy you have a met my boys !grin

DontstepontheMomeRaths Sat 05-Jan-13 19:16:34

>>>> Mackem please tell me it does improve, it sounds like your DD has? <<<<

DD as a baby cried when she was tired, cried when she was bored, cried when you weren't paying her enough attention, cried when . . . . well, you get the idea! sad And her type of crying was to scream like she was in agony! It was hell. I really have no good memories of her first ten months or so as this followed on from pregnancy insomnia, so I was a zombied wreck. It turned out that most of her crying was because she was tired, but given the type of her crying we'd thought she was always crying for attention so it wasn't until she was 7 months old and we left her alone, even if crying, at bedtime that things finally improved. Live and learn!

So things did get better, at least until she could tantrum. Ah bless, she used to look for an empty patch of floor before she threw herself down, sneaky little blighter! And refuse to get up. So in her case the screaming died down but the stroppiness increased. hmm She's 6 now, but things have improved a lot, the tantrumming probably started decreasing from about age 4 / four and a half. She's still extremely hard work though! grin

However . . . .

DontstepontheMomeRaths Sat 05-Jan-13 19:20:07

>>>> Btw the house voice thing, is due to the fact he seems loud even at home, when he's not having a tantrum. He has no volume control but I'm trying! sad <<<<

DS is now 9 and I'm still working on the volume control thing with both of mine. However, a few years ago they at least added 'Loud' to the previous options of 'Very Loud' and 'Ear Splitting', so it got a bit better. They can actually go normal volume now too but, frustratingly, I find that the times they actually choose to use it are when we're walking alongside a busy road and I need them to shout! Arghh!

NC78 Sat 05-Jan-13 20:59:04

I would say Yes they did - you just don't remember because you have gone senile.

AyeOopMoose Sat 05-Jan-13 20:59:38

This is the very reason why I got so stressed with DD1. If she so much as cried when I was out I thought everyone was muttering about my poor parenting skills.

With DD2 she can wail the place down and I get my poker face on, just daring someone to pass comment yes miserable woman in the post office just before Christmas I'm looking at you.

Sometimes you can try your best but nothing will stop the DC. Comments like this do not help when you're feeling stressed. I find that if I say something back, very politely the critical person often backs down. Eg Woman: "Oh I can't hear myself think with THAT baby"
Me (juggling baby in arms): "Yes, I know she's loud. I'm sure she's as fed up as you at having to have had to queue for 25 minutes but we needed to post this".

Children cry, toddlers scream. Get over it and give the mother some support.

I can also understand the OP's description of the woman for this reason.

digerd Sat 05-Jan-13 21:00:07

I think the life expectancy for a woman is statistically around 87, I read, so middle age is half of that - 43.5.
I know lovely sweet old ladies and what I call nasty pieces of work Battleaxes.
The only Battleaxes I knew when young were some of those teachers with the killer look and voice like a whiplash. < and face like shrek> The male teachers were all nice.

crashdoll Sat 05-Jan-13 21:04:46

I don't get why some people think it's ok to be ageist even if the person in question is rude. You lose the moral high ground and make yourself look silly.

CheCazzo Sat 05-Jan-13 21:05:14

It's all very well singling out the 'miserable woman in the post office..........' - but maybe she just can't stand that sound? Maybe she has a hearing aid that amplifies some sounds to unbearable levels? Maybe she was ill? Tired? Caring for someone very ill? You just can't know - but in any of those situations your precious poppet screeching fit to break glass might just be enough to tip her (or anyone) over the edge right into...........misery.

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 21:07:00

The lovely thing about ageism though, is it will come to us all.
Mwahaha.

tettoni Sat 05-Jan-13 21:07:51

Well, CheCazzo, none of us knows what is going on for any other stranger. That's why it's important to be tolerant and unjudgemental.

hazeyjane Sat 05-Jan-13 21:08:29

Nancy66, I too am an old bag (well nearly!) but accept that little children scream for all sorts of reasons, and sometimes, however hard you try, it is very hard to do anything to stop them.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 21:09:42

I think crashdoll is right. I'm not passing any judgment on the screaming child, the parenting involved or others' ability to cope with the noise.

I just think the OP was ageist and really childish and rude. It seems as LadyBeagleEyes said that ageism seems acceptable in a way other discrimination isn't.

AyeOopMoose Sat 05-Jan-13 21:10:34

Cazzo I can't stand the sound, let alone anyone else.

Nor did I say DD2 was a "precious poppet". Crying babies/ screaming toddlers are a PITA. I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

But do you know what? I like to think that I'm tolerant enough to understand that some things in life that other people do will annoy me.

I would never be rude enough to pass comment on the way someone was dealing with, what is obviously, a stressful situation to them.

Midlifecrisisarefun Sat 05-Jan-13 21:11:14

I once packed bags for another customer in tesco who had a screaming DS, I'm not sure who was more relieved, her, the checkout operator, the customer behind or myself!
The woman in the shop with the OP wasn't helpful but, hey, not everyone is tolerant of other peoples DC. Only a masochist would like having a child screaming in their vacinity.grin
My DS1 was a screamer, everytime he started we left the shop regardless of the shopping...once he got to 3+ it was explained to him that any screaming running, sliding on the floor or general pia behaviour would result in us going home empty handed and there would be nothing for tea. Threat was carried out. Didn't take long to curb the screaming then!

CheCazzo Sat 05-Jan-13 21:13:45

Of course nobody knows what's going on for a stranger. Tell the OP and AyeOop not to label other people 'old bag' 'miserable woman' etc for precisely the reason that we should be tolerant and non-judgemental. However, the parent with the screeching child always has the option to remove that child from the situation out of consideration for others. I don't expect you to agree with that - you probably feel it is your child's right to scream and give everyone else a crashing headache.

AyeOopMoose Sat 05-Jan-13 21:22:35

Cazzo so you've never referred to someone negatively because of the way they have treated you? The women who was critical in the PO WAS miserable. As for the OP referring to the woman in the way she did, it wasn't a good thing but she didn't do it to her face and just came here to vent.

You say that parents of a screeching child have the option to remove them but that's not always possible. Life does go on with small children, you have to shop, run errands etc.

I do not feel that my child "has a right to scream", that's why I do everything I can to prevent this. But sometimes children are noisy.

If a parent is doing all they can to stop this, they should be supported not criticised.

CaHoHoHootz Sat 05-Jan-13 21:23:50

Blimey there is some stroppy comments on here.

I would also have referred to the rude lady as an old bag, because she was acting like one. Had she been a none rude middle aged/older female she would not be an old bag. Had the rude person been male I would have referred to him as an old git.

ouryve Sat 05-Jan-13 21:24:42

I'd have said "well lucky you"

hmm at someone middle aged being an "old bag" mind.

peanutMD Sat 05-Jan-13 21:26:42

CheCazzo with that point in mind.

How do we know the OP isn't a single parent working many hours and this is the one chance she got to run into the shop for milk and brad for the next few days?

How do we know the OP isn't a carer for a disabled relative who desperately needed something from the shop?

How do we know she wasn't buying something to take to the hospital for her other poorly child?

There are a million reasons why a person may need to get to the ship and screaming child or not, you can't expect them not to!

CheCazzo Sat 05-Jan-13 21:28:45

I see your point peanut but I suspect that I know she's none of those things because she said she was queueing to post a letter!

tettoni Sat 05-Jan-13 21:29:26

Of course nobody knows what's going on for a stranger. Tell the OP and AyeOop not to label other people 'old bag' 'miserable woman' etc for precisely the reason that we should be tolerant and non-judgemental. You're being silly.

you probably feel it is your child's right to scream and give everyone else a crashing headache.

Ooh yeah, you got me there, banged to rights hmm Like the majority of people, I am painfully embarrassed when they do and try to stop it as far as possible, but small children cry and scream sometimes. And sometimes there's just nothing you can do about it. For what it's worth mine are generally very well behaved but sometimes lose it, usually in public. And people making comments get the sharp end of my tongue, which is very sharp indeed.

People like the woman the OP described waive their rights to tolerance by being so mean spirited themselves. There is no need to comment. Why can they not remove themselves from the situation? Why is their right to shop so much more important than the parent with the screaming child? Sometimes I can't do the shopping any other time, or post a letter, or see the doctor. If you don't like it, may I respectfully suggest that you remove yourself from the situation.

poorbuthappy Sat 05-Jan-13 21:30:59

It's simple really. Next time ask the age of the woman concerned so she can be referred to as the 74/80/60 (delete as applicable) year old bag.

It's a minefield I tell you.

Greensleeves Sat 05-Jan-13 21:34:18

She clearly was an old bag though. And very possibly a foul old fucker too.

If it had been a teenaged boy making a spiteful remark... well, he would be a rude little bastard. grin

It is just descriptive. I can picture an "old bag" or a "little bastard" better than "non-specific human being". Other examples of illustrative detail - which gender the screaming child was, which supermarket it was etc- descriptive detail is part of an anecdote - that doesn't mean every detail is loaded with significance and has to be tortuously unpacked.

And the thing about "the elderly are the people who can be insulted on MN" or whatever it was - horseshit. EVERYONE gets insulted on MN.

crashdoll Sat 05-Jan-13 21:34:32

poorbuthappy Why comment on her age at all?

5madthings Sat 05-Jan-13 21:35:27

Err nancy he wasnt running around being a little shit, he was in the seat in the trolley hence the screaming and you cant always go home sometimes you have to get the shopping so you can have some dinner that night, make packed lunches for an older child for school the next day etc.

Fwiw i hate shopping with a stroppy toddler but sometimes it has to be done. When i see crying babies/tantruming toddlers their parents have my sympathy and i have on occassion offered to pack shopping etc.

The lady was rude, calling her names and commenting on her age is also rude but the op wanted to vent which is what lots of us do on mnet.

As for not letting children scream i suspect those that say that had children like my ds1, my nan always said to me what a 'biddable little boy' he was. I never knew what she meant until i had ds2!

AyeOopMoose Sat 05-Jan-13 21:35:46

People like the woman the OP described waive their rights to tolerance by being so mean spirited themselves. There is no need to comment Absolutely perfectly put.

ouryve Sat 05-Jan-13 21:36:26

I'm 43.25, so officially middle aged and have a 9yo occasional screamer and a 6.5yo major SCREAMER (it was a relief when he went to bed tonight) to deal with.

Maybe the middle aged bit is the reason why I've never, ever had a single negative comment or even look in a supermarket, even when DS2 is doing his shrieking, flapping kangaroo act and DS1 is plastered to the floor giving us what for because he still doesn't like any of the cereal bars available.

ProphetOfDoom Sat 05-Jan-13 21:36:49

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ouryve Sat 05-Jan-13 21:38:23

Or maybe it's because, even when stressed, we're respectful of other shoppers and talk to them with good humour, a plastered on smile and an apologetic shrug.

I just don't understand why people get so het up about children screaming/crying. Just be thankful they're not yours and move on or block it out!

I quite rightly got a bollocking off a sales assistant for letting my two run through the rails in Debenhams, it was my own fault, I was getting stressed and upset because I couldn't find a suitable dress for a party, so I was tuning them out. When I put DD back in the pushchair she screamed her head off for ages. The looks I then got off other customers! Damned if I do, damned if I don't!

<sensibly goes no where near the ageism topic>

Greensleeves Sat 05-Jan-13 21:40:18

... and frankly it often IS sour-faced old women who make these comments in supermarkets. What they often mean is that their slapping hand is itching. They would never have "put up with" a child screaming. Their children would have learned early on not to dare to behave like that.

We make our choices. My children screamed in supermarkets. I either took them home or ploughed grimly on, depending on my mood and the urgency of the shopping. I didn't discipline them so strongly that they were conditioned to behave correctly at age 2. My choice. And it attracted disparaging remarks from old bags. We also had lovely comments from old women who thought my dc were adorable. That's the public for you.

tettoni Sat 05-Jan-13 21:48:47

What they often mean is that their slapping hand is itching.
Can't stop laughing at this grin So true.

peanutMD Sat 05-Jan-13 21:53:47

I do think that we are expected to shut up and put up with snide comments and rude remarks from older people, but if it were a younger person they would be petulant brats who know Bugger all.

This annoys me, I don't tolerate it from my son so why should I put up with it from others regardless of age?

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 21:56:55

So what age is this Greensleeves?
My late mother was a gentle soul who practically brought up my niece in her late 60's and early 70's and babysat for my ds.
She died this year aged 80 and never hit any of us, and there were four of us under 5.
There's some mean spirited people about but it's fuck all to do with age.
In fact you sound more judgemental to me than any elderly person I've met in RL.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 21:59:11

There's some mean spirited people about but it's fuck all to do with age

Absolutely, but there are enough people who are keen to drag age into things at every opportunity.

Greensleeves Sat 05-Jan-13 22:02:49

"We also had lovely comments from old women who thought my dc were adorable. That's the public for you."

see, your mother is covered. Keep your hair on.

There are horrible old people and horrible young people. But horrible old people are horrible in different ways and for different reasons than horrible young people, as a whole.

There are lovely people of all ages.

But there is definitely a type of sour-faced old woman who sticks her oar into the business of young parents dealing with children behaving badly or noisily. Old bags.

FanFuckingTastic Sat 05-Jan-13 22:03:01

So, fallback onto the "Did you mean to be so rude lady?" And post thread about rude lady who upset you when out because screaming babies exist and have to go into public places sometimes and people who comment are rude.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 22:05:30

Exactly: it's perfectly possible to take issue with the woman's rudeness without bringing her age into it and behaving like an obnoxious child when people comment on the ageism.

HappyNewBleurgh Sat 05-Jan-13 22:11:13

Blimey some people here are very saintly never to have an unpleasant thought about someone who has been catty to them. It's not like the op even said anything back to the woman.

And I guess I do fit the age range in question and have even been known to mentally define certain people similarly if the occasion demands. Is that a thought crime? Probably they do it to me too.

tettoni Sat 05-Jan-13 22:11:18

Maybe the OP thought the woman's age was relevant.

FiveFlowers Sat 05-Jan-13 22:13:50

I would say Yes they did - you just don't remember because you have gone senile.

If that was directed at me,

No they didn't.
I do remember.
I'm not senile.

HTH

FiveFlowers Sat 05-Jan-13 22:15:47

There's a big difference between screaming babies and screaming toddlers, FanFuckingTastic

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 22:20:20

Hahaha Greensleeves.
And by your judgmental posts, you will be that sour faced old lady.

Greensleeves Sat 05-Jan-13 22:22:37

I may be a sour-faced old lady, but I won't be that sour-faced old lady, because I don't mind small children behaving like small children in public places.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 22:23:29

It's not like the op even said anything back to the woman

I think that's part of the problem. She appears to lack the ability to have dealt with the situation calmly and assertively. Her childish comments and name calling on this thread left me very surprised when she revealed her age.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 22:26:30

* I don't mind small children behaving like small children in public places*

No, you're just happy to judge the behaviour of adults according to their age.

It seems to have escaped the notice of some that some posters, like myself and LadyBeagleEyes have made it clear we're unhappy with the ageism while making no judgment on the child's behaviour.

Greensleeves Sat 05-Jan-13 22:30:59

I'm not ageist. I'm arseholeist. I don't like people who make things worse for young parents who are doing their best.

Noting a tendency - that these comments are very often made by older women who believe in harsher discipline to control young children's behaviour - isn't ageist, it's just using one's experiences and intelligence to make an observation.

What would be ageist would be to say that all - or even most - old women behave like this. Which they don't. Many old ladies are lovely, and not old bags at all.

Also ageist would be to claim that only older people are rude and unpleasant. This is not the case either. There are lots of rude people out there of all ages (yes, including me). Some are old bags. Some are little bastards. Etc.

Mentioning age does not make one ageist

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 22:33:45

Mentioning age does not make one ageist

Point taken, but referring to someone as an "old bag" or a "foul old fucker" as someone else did upthread is ageist - imo.

Greensleeves Sat 05-Jan-13 22:38:22

I see what you are saying too. But I think the deciding factor is whether the OP is attributing the rudeness itself to the woman's age - which she isn't. She is using the fact that the woman was elderly as an indicator of a particular type (which IMO does exist) and because it is relevant to the KIND of rudeness and the likely motivation behind it.

I've never had a teenage boy purse his lips at me and mutter that my ds1 needs a good slap (he has AS and can be interesting in supermarkets)

I have however had teenage boys barge into me because they simply did not notice me because I am a frumpy middle aged woman, and I tend to think "selfish little sod" rather than "sanctimonious old bag" in that situation. On a bad day I might say "Do I look like a fucking doorway? No? Then don't walk through me!".

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 22:38:53

Quite, ilovesooty.
And as a mother who had my child at 39, I'm way younger than you in my head in judging, Greensleeves.

apostropheuse Sat 05-Jan-13 22:41:04

What a lovely OP hmm

I'm obviously an old bag as I'm middle aged (well I am if I live until I'm 102 as I'm now 51) and I guess I must be having false memories if I cannot ever remember my children screaming all the way round supermarkets. But hey after you reach a certain age apparently that happens. Well according to some posters anyway.

Not everyone had children that screamed like that. No matter how many times you say the must have, it doesn't make it true.

I wouldn't have said anything to the OP or about the OP though, because just because my children didn't do it, doesn't make it my business how others deal with their children.

To be brutally honest though, inwardly I would have been thinking I wish that child would just bloody stop! I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one thinking it.

Greensleeves Sat 05-Jan-13 22:42:30

I doubt you want the child to "just bloody stop" as much as its mother does!

apostropheuse Sat 05-Jan-13 22:46:56

I doubt you want the child to "just bloody stop" as much as its mother does!
I wouldn't be too sure of that grin

ponchopink Sat 05-Jan-13 22:50:17

Not a nice or constructive comment when dealing with a screaming child. I have been there and got the tshirt with dc. I would have offered can I help pack to speed it up, and added comment I've been there.

BUT I cannot believe you are being allowed the old bag comment. I have made some comments about horrid behaviour in a child and omg it was like lighting a fire, absolutely not allowed. Therefore although the lady was no help at all , you are definitely being ageist. Age comes to us all , if we are lucky!

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 22:50:50

Well exactly Greensleeves, as many of our middle aged posters have experienced.
Which is why so many of us are pissed off that 'young mums' like you judge us so harshly.
Many of us have been there, done that, and some of us have adult children and teenagers.
So we don't need to be told that we're sour faced old biddies by people whose only experience is with young children.

You can be an 'old bag' and be 20 or 50.

Same as you can be a foul fucker and be 20 or 80. Like greensleeve's teenage boys.

I think that there's a lot of pedants on this thread. sigh

OP was obviously annoyed by this older woman, she is hardly going to wish that she had said "Please leave me, lady of an age older than I but lesser than a pensioner.... "

Greensleeves Sat 05-Jan-13 22:54:32

Do you actually know the ages of all the posters on this thread LadyBeagleEyes?

Greensleeves Sat 05-Jan-13 22:55:25

...I mean, you're not making assumptions about me, are you? shock

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 22:55:33

Same as you can be a foul fucker and be 20 or 80

You referred to the woman as a foul old fucker.

apostropheuse Sat 05-Jan-13 22:55:59

Yes ladybeagles and some of us even have grandchildren who are babies and young children. We even sometimes look after them too.

Veritate Sat 05-Jan-13 22:55:59

I think we are entitled to be called sour faced old biddies if we are being sour faced and judgmental about other people's parenting, particularly given that as parents ourselves we should be aware of the sort of stress someone is already feeling when their child is screaming in a supermarket. And I too write as an old biddy.

Greensleeves Sat 05-Jan-13 22:58:22

At 80 if you are a foul fucker you are an old foul fucker!

And LBE having "been there, done that" buys you precisely nothing in terms of respect or presumption of superiority. Lots of people have "been there, done that" and made a right fucking pig's ear of it.

You're making yourself sound like an old bag now...

ilovesooty, does it honestly matter to anybody? Really. hmm

In any case, if I wished to call anyone a foul old fucker, I am well within my right to. Unless it's undeserved, then I'm the foul fucker of indeterminate age.

FWIW: Being a sour faced old hag/ foul old fucker is for everyone.

tinkertitonk Sat 05-Jan-13 23:05:07

Greensleeves, maybe the woman who commented didn't think that the OP was doing her best? Given the unpleasant attitude that the OP has displayed, she (the commenter) might have had a point.

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 23:05:57

What a load of crap.
An old bag is as it says, always has been, always will be.
My teenage son has friends that I don't care for, I know young mums I don't like.
I don't call them old bags or foul old fuckers.
And nor to any of you that are defending the expression.
What a load of defensive nonsense.

Greensleeves Sat 05-Jan-13 23:07:21

In what possible interpretation could "my kids never screamed like that" have been anything other than a sanctimonious and unhelpful remark?

Saying OP might not herself be the patron saint of motherhood in no way dilutes the unpleasantness of the old bag's behaviour. confused

Greensleeves Sat 05-Jan-13 23:09:06

I don't call young people old bags either confused

I use other, age-appropriate insults (usually in my head)

But since you've clearly abandoned all pretence at reasoned argument, I won't bother to elucidate again.

Ladybeagle, you need to meet my sister.

I love her, but she is a proper old bag. At 21.

Pearl clutching, doily toting and underskirt wearing.

I'm not defending the expression, as it's meant to be offensive. But it's fair enough to explain it's usage.

tinkertitonk- didn't realise that we all had to be at our best at all times. Stepford Wives much?

ponchopink Sat 05-Jan-13 23:12:25

I just checked and was surprised that the post actually wasn't made by Greensleeves! Sadly most of us are less tolerant after passing various stages by, pregnancy boring, coffee with babies pointless screaming kids get them.away from me. Its just how it goes when your life moves on. Now I find it irritating when kids are running around in a cafe, a few years ago I would have looked at them fondly. I would still offer to help though. But honestly when you hear a child screaming its head off in the distance in a supermarket , I think just abandon the trip and very quietly to myself oh please shut up! There have been occasions when there's a commotion and its a child with SN and then I just think how lucky I am that's not me and I don't think anything other than that.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 23:12:36

I'm not denying that the woman's comment was sanctimonious and unhelpful. For what seems like about the 20th time: I am not judging anyone's parenting or suggesting anyone else should do so.

But yes, the ageism matters to me and I think the OP and those who defend those comments (when they relate to age rather than purely to behaviour) are ageist.

LifeofPo Sat 05-Jan-13 23:14:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Greensleeves Sat 05-Jan-13 23:15:45

I think ageism is slightly different. I don't see someone, note their age and think, "Oh, she'll be an old bag", or (as is shockingly common) see a teenage boy and think "He'll be ignorant and selfish and possibly violent"

but if an old person is rude and judgemental to me in a way which is characteristic of older rather than younger rude people - eg making comments about a young parent's parenting because (like LBE) they assume that their opinions are more valid because they are older... yep,l that's an old bag.

If it offends you THAT much, i lovesooty, I will recall my original insult posted towards the OP's irritating nemesis.... and she shall now just be " A Fucker".

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 23:21:03

I was never a young parent Greensleeves.
I was living abroad, working in a topless bar in Amsterdam doing a ridiculous amount of drugs.
Not proud of it, but just trying to point out that old bagism is as far from me as you'll ever get.

Greensleeves Sat 05-Jan-13 23:23:56

What is the relevance of your age when you had your children? I don't need your life story. And you know bugger all about me confused

Saying "been there and done that" is just odious and arrogant though. And there is no evidence that having "been there and done that" means having done a half-decent job of it. Presupposing that seniority confers superiority is a straight road to old baggery.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 23:24:36

Fine, mrsc smile

tinkertitonk Sat 05-Jan-13 23:24:37

Greensleeves, you have only heard one side of the story. That makes it possible to construct many scenarios where the comment was reasonable and unsanctimonious.

Mrscumberbatch, why not do our best? It's something we all owe to the rest of the world.

Ageism is discriminating on account of a person's age.

Calling somebody an 'Old bag' because they are being an 'Old bag' isn't ageism- it's descriptive.

Calling somebody a 'Young upstart' doesn't necessitate that they are actually 'Young'. (Whatever 'Young' means in this day and age where childhood can last up to your 20s and middle age is anywhere between 30 and 65 depending on who you speak to.)

Greensleeves Sat 05-Jan-13 23:26:53

Well go on then, construct a plausible scenario using the information we do have, culminating in the old lady saying "my kids never screamed like that", in which the comment is reasonable and helpful.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 23:26:59

No, I don't think you can construct a scenario where it's reasonable to judge someone else's parenting out loud by comparing it to yours, tinkertonk

tinkertitonk. Holy fuck.

I would like to speak to the majority of women that I know here serious note

I try bloody hard, at life, in general.

Sometimes, especially with children, you can try as hard as you want- but it's still going to look shite to every passer by.

Do not put the Stepford Wives evil upon me. If you can honestly say that your children have never stepped a foot out of line, had a tantrum in a supermarket or pinched a tea-strainer from ikea- then fair enough.... But God Help Me..... a Parent's best is never going to be enough for everybody.

PS: (Unless you're not actually to do the best by your children- then you're just a bit of a wank.)

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 23:30:12

Calling somebody an 'Old bag' because they are being an 'Old bag' isn't ageism- it's descriptive

It's perfectly possible to describe the person's behaviour as interfering, sanctimonious, unhelpful, rude - without needing to refer in a derogatory way to someone's age.

edam Sat 05-Jan-13 23:31:33

dontsteponthe, have you had your screamer's ears tested? Only you say he's very loud at home as well - it's worth checking, as small children often have glue ear and it's often months or years before anyone realises. Even my sister, a nurse, didn't pick up on her daughter's glue ear for ages and ages. We all felt v. guilty when it was finally diagnosed as we should have known... Another sign is if they are very fussy eaters esp. with any food that requires chewing, such as meat. If your ears are bunged up, it can make eating tough foods quite tricky and unpleasant.

dictionary link

Just FYI: The definition of 'Old Bag' has nothing to do with age.

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 23:32:07

Well not young upstart, who says that anymore?confused
How about young hooligan, which many of our teenagers are called, just by standing on street corners doing no harm to anybody.
It's another judgement just as old bag is to the old, I don't use either as I try not to use nasty judgmental language about anybody.

PatFenis Sat 05-Jan-13 23:32:55

Haven't read the thread - skimmed a bit- see its turned into an ageist thread

I think that anyone of any age who has had children and makes a comment like 'my children have never screamed like that' has either a very short memory, selective memory or is a fibber ....or deluded

All children have meltdowns ...specially when strapped into trolleys and cant quite reach the sweeties which are placed so beautifully at the checkout to ensure perfect tantrums and freakouts ....no you can't have it just because its there!!!

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 23:34:02

So would you call children Foul Young Fuckers, Mrs Cumberbatch?

Greensleeves Sat 05-Jan-13 23:35:23

do people still say hooligan? grin

I do agree with the point that teenagers are also often discriminated against (having made it myself just a few moments ago)

but there is a difference between presupposing that somebody will offend in a certain way because of their age (ageism) and providing a reference to their age in describing how they have offended, because it is relevant to the type of attitude and rudeness they have exhibited.

I've never heard 'Young Hooligan' being used either. Hooliganism is a trait without an age. (It isnt ageist!)

The only terms that I can think of "Young" being used in conversations would be "Whippersnappers" and "Hearts" and neither of those actually have to be applied to "Young" people either. You can be 90 and be "Young Hearts"

And i actually do use "Young upstart", because the English language is fun and full of bizarre and odd phrases that can be misconstrued, misheard and misunderstood. And I am a language nerd.

LadyBeagle, if my toddler was being a foul wee fucker, you can be guaranteed that in my head I will be thinking "You Foul Wee Fucker"

I wouldn't say it to her though, as that would just be impolite wink

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 05-Jan-13 23:41:30

Ah well I give up.
I just try not to label or judge people by their age, that's all.
Anyway the Op got her bunfight and has long disappeared as will I.
Goodnight.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 23:42:13

So...taking the descriptive justification a little further...what would the reaction have been if the OP had posted about "black fucker" or "crippled git" who had criticised her child's behaviour?

Black isn't a valid nor acceptable term to refer to a person as being, nor is crippled.

The OP's actual comment of "Smug Middle Aged Woman" is quite different. Clearly.

ilovesooty Sat 05-Jan-13 23:48:07

I don't think "old bag" is any more acceptable, sorry. I was trying to make the point that other discriminatory comment is (quite rightly) considered unacceptable, but ageism doesn't get the same reaction.

threesocksmorgan Sat 05-Jan-13 23:51:55

yabu for using PO

Old bag isn't actually a term describing age though. As I mentioned, it's perfectly possible to be an old bag at any age. (Sounds like an advert.....hmm)

I do agree that ageism does get overlooked though. I'm 27 and have friends at work between 40 and 80. We can talk about ANYTHING, they are wonderful, funny, attractive and smart women - but in their workplaces they are largely ignored as their younger counterparts receive the majority of workload queries/etc.

You'd think that they would gain more respect from being in the field longer but no. Men get more distinguished and women lose out.

It is something that I think/worry about as my reputation counts for everything in my business.

ilovesooty Sun 06-Jan-13 00:00:18

That's interesting, and saddening mrsc

I'm the oldest person on my team, and I know I'm regarded as one of the most enthusiastic and energetic. I know my age isn't an issue (though it means I can get away with a bit more when dealing with our service users grin Perhaps being a career changer is one of the reasons I feel so passionately about the issue. wink

PatFenis Sun 06-Jan-13 00:02:26

Oh great! So as a 40 yr old I'm likely to be ignored at work because of my age!? Its a fucking good job that I'm self employed then innit! I choose to ignore myself

<sits in corner ingoring myself>

Its quite cathartic really...would anyone like to join me in self ignorage? You don't get a lot done but its quite peaceful grin

Really? 40 too old?

I'm in antiques- so it's an 'old man profession'.

It's maddening as no matter how good or knowledgeable you can be, there are still men and women out there who don't trust knowledge coming from a woman and insist on seeing 'The man who owns the shop' (ie: the pensioner who does weekends for me as a hobby.)

It is strange if you consider that the majority of Primary education comes from women... (I'm not sure about the statistics for secondary and University but wouldn't imagine that there would be a huge gap?) Yet when it comes down to most other vocations outside of academia, women are STILL less well regarded than men.

I think a career change will be required before people assume that I'm incompetent wink (at least I have 20 or so years to train!!!)

PatFenis Sun 06-Jan-13 00:11:12

mrscumberbatch I'm in antiques also - I have 25 plus years experience but I very rarely get taken seriously ....get to fuck all you dealers on the tele!!

Keep it up girl (woman) ...PM with your passions

PatFenis and Toughasoldboots - my work colleagues are between 40 and 80 and have all witnessed this in different circumstances.

The 'too old' remarks etc are of your own conjuring.Not my opinion. Thanks.

NothingIsAsBadAsItSeems Sun 06-Jan-13 00:14:58

blush my parents would say something like that and probably follow it up with something like:

'Can't discipline children today without being accused of child abuse'

'That child wouldn't behave like that if they knew 'real' consequence for their actions, none of this behave or mummy will take one of your toys'

I could go on blush

Patfenis!!!! Nooooo way hahhaha you'll know exactly what i mean.

I specialise in silver victorian and edwardian jewellery, but of course, end up with all sorts! Was brought up in antique/jewellers family so it's in the blood- could identify a genuine piece of art deco jewellery from 20 paces at the age of 8 wink

What's your forte?

ilovesooty Sun 06-Jan-13 00:16:21

there are still men and women out there who don't trust knowledge coming from a woman and insist on seeing 'The man who owns the shop' (ie: the pensioner who does weekends for me as a hobby

That must be infuriating.

PatFenis Sun 06-Jan-13 00:17:33

Read back Mrs Cumberbatch smile

ilovesooty, it's all I have ever known.

I worked in insurance previously and it was much of the same. The men go out and play golf and make deals and the women stay in the office doing paperwork and making tea.

It's like madmen without the snazzy dresses.

Patfenis- apologies- I did but too late!

PatFenis Sun 06-Jan-13 00:21:32

Victorian Jewellery, pottery,clothing omg anything that wasn't made in this century - I started this when I was 15 yrs old ...had a shop which was very successful ...long story ...gonna pm you with my email

Do it! Would love to hear from a fellow enthusiast/downtrodden female antiques peddlar wink

ilovesooty Sun 06-Jan-13 00:25:21

I'm rather considering the irony of accusing someone who works in antiques as being ageist... grin

AlbertoFrog Sun 06-Jan-13 00:26:11

Dear God I don't stand a chance.

I'm an old bag of 41 with a very willful 2 year old DS.

OP YANBU, I wish other people (of all ages) would keep their unhelpful, sarcastic comments to themselves.

Greensleeves I think I luff you.

ilovesooty, I know, I could've just said... but then I wouldn't have been able to get uppity about it wink

Loveweekends10 Sun 06-Jan-13 02:26:09

I have referred to people as old bags and probably have been referred to as an old bag myself.
Nothing worse that someone who feels it is their job to comment on your parenting. It's not welcome or helpful.
My sympathy is with the OP.

Imaginethat Sun 06-Jan-13 03:24:01

Well if it makes anyone feel better my ds is a terrible screamer. Absolutely awful. His older sister has been a dream and he, in most respects, is normal. But when he loses it he screams and I have absolutely no doubt that everyone within cooey is fervently wishing he'd disappear. Sorry on behalf of screamers! I have had a few comments but tbh nothing too unkind and besides it's true, his screaming is unacceptable.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 06-Jan-13 03:55:43

To be fair to OP calling a woman of approximately 60 "middle aged" is very generous. 40-50 is middle aged.

And the woman sounds like a thoroughly unpleasant person so really "ageism"? Utterly ridiculous.

YANBU OP.

ComposHat Sun 06-Jan-13 04:30:15

And the woman sounds like a thoroughly unpleasant person so really "ageism"? Utterly ridiculous

ALis So it is okay to use ageist terms if the person it is directed at isn't very nice? Is it therefore okay to refer to an Asian person as a 'Paki' or a Gay person as a 'queer' if they aren't pleasant to you or to refer to Abu Hamsa as a 'spaz'?

I think it is your logic that is 'utterly ridiculous.'

Aside from that OP, YANBU

PessaryPam Sun 06-Jan-13 09:34:53

Try substituting 'black' for 'old' and see how it sounds.

HenryCrun Sun 06-Jan-13 09:39:23

'black bag'?

I guess being compared to a refuse sack isn't great?

akaemmafrost Sun 06-Jan-13 09:44:31

Well I've two autistic dc who at various times could have reduced where they were to rubble with their screams. I have said at various times:-

"So what!"

"mind your own business"

"Oh did you smack your kids then? See I don't do that!"

"Now, my mum always says that too but that really doesn't tie in with MY memory of my childhood. My Mum used to smack us to shut us up is that what you did too?"

And on one memorable occasion when I was bodily preventing ds from hurling himself in front of a bus "piss off and mind your own business you're making it worse!"

A derisive and disbelieving snigger works well too.

Cherriesarelovely Sun 06-Jan-13 09:46:38

I would have found this annoying to OP. When my Dd was that age she was very quiet but she did have the odd screaning tantrum and I didn't appreciate the judgemental glares either.

akaemmafrost Sun 06-Jan-13 09:46:57

Oh and "you deserve a medal!"

akaemmafrost Sun 06-Jan-13 09:49:34

Next time and there will be a next time I might laugh and say "I don't believe you, all kids tantrum".

DrRanj Sun 06-Jan-13 09:56:47

Jesus! Leave the op alone! She is clearly stressed with a young family, an obnoxious woman was rude to her (who does sound like an old bag to me) comes on here to vent, and you all jump on her? Shame on you all!

MiniEggsinJanuary Sun 06-Jan-13 10:04:50

OP you have my sympathy. Shopping with all DCs in tow is bad enough without some old bag sticking their wizened old oar in. I am also in support of your description of her - even if she wasn't mathematically "old" she was certainly behaving like an old bag so you just carry on. The very fact that you didn't make a rude comment back to her shows that you are not obnoxious, as others have said. Well done for remaining dignified in the heat of the moment and letting off steam on her rather than on someone in DL. Don't worry about the grumpy people on here - older people always find fault in something wink

Mentioning age does not make ageist

Doesn't it? What if OP had referred to a "black (old) bag" or an "Irish (old) bag"?

TeenTwinsToddlerandTiaras Sun 06-Jan-13 10:18:36

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

PessaryPam Sun 06-Jan-13 10:23:14

Don't shout or is that where your child gets it from?

Blistory Sun 06-Jan-13 10:35:44

Yes, you're being unreasonable. You've already stated that your child is a screamer and that you find it difficult. She was rude to comment but she won't have be the only one to think it.

You lost the moral high ground when you started insulting her on here in the manner that you did. And you are being incredibly rude to other posters.

ILoveTIFFANY Sun 06-Jan-13 10:38:11

Oh my! Op, are you for real?

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 06-Jan-13 10:52:06

No Compos I don't call people "spaz" or "queer" nor do I call people black as a term of abuse.

Thanks for the very broad assumptions made about me though.

Nancy66 Sun 06-Jan-13 10:54:59

Actually OP, if you are for real, I'm only three years older than you.

The only difference is I don't allow my kids to scream in public and I earn enough not to have to shop in Tesco grin

MiniEggsinJanuary Sun 06-Jan-13 11:19:59

Nancy66 that kind of comment does only one thing. It exposes you as a total arsehole.

HopAndSkip Sun 06-Jan-13 11:20:00

TeenTwinsToddlerandTiaras completely with you on this. I'm also failing to understand how people are sensitive enough to be deeply offended by the comment "old bag", especially when it's not even aimed at them.

Judging by this thread we are expected to accommodate rude behavior from an old person which we wouldn't from a younger person. Isn't that "ageist" in itself?

As for the people who can't cope with a screaming child at a supermarket, do your shopping online if everyday life stresses you out that much...

Veritate Sun 06-Jan-13 11:25:21

The comparison of the the use of "old" with "black" is simply not a valid one. "Old bag" is a well-known term used in all sorts of contexts, "black bag" is simply not a known term at all (other than when describing a bag that is black, obv.) This woman, whatever her age - and she may well have been younger than I am - was behaving like a judgmental old crone.

And frankly, Nancy66, so are you. And you're definitely younger than me.

akaemmafrost Sun 06-Jan-13 11:25:44

I think that ship had already sailed minieggs.

OP try not to dish out insults, however justified because it just makes the judgey smuggards feel vindicated.

MiniEggsinJanuary Sun 06-Jan-13 11:41:18

Should I go back through the thread akaemma?!

Rhinosaurus Sun 06-Jan-13 11:51:02

It never ceases to amaze me when people post in AIBU and then flounce when they are told that they are! Perhaps we need a forum entitled "I am not being unreasonable, only post here if you agree".

Also, at 41, it is a sham you have to resort to bullying tactics such as foul language and insults to try to get your point across, it's hardly going to raise your credibility.

ComposHat Sun 06-Jan-13 12:10:23

No Compos I don't call people "spaz" or "queer" nor do I call people black as a term of abuse

Alis But you are clearly happy to use the term 'old bag' which is a term of abuse based on the person's age.

crashdoll Sun 06-Jan-13 12:14:10

I'm also failing to understand how people are sensitive enough to be deeply offended by the comment "old bag", especially when it's not even aimed at them.

No one is 'deeply offended' but people are rightly pointing out that she was being ageist. No one is making excuses for the rude lady but I'm not going to make excuses for the OP being rude on here either.

ComposHat Sun 06-Jan-13 12:16:46

what crashdoll said

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 06-Jan-13 12:17:28

Compos calling someone "old" is not the same a calling someone a "spaz" or "queer". Nor is calling someone old the same as being racist for that matter.

Mind boggling that you would compare them really.

Just FYI: It has already been distinguished earlier in the thread that 'Old Bag' is not an ageist term.

As defined by the dictionary, it is a term describing an 'unpleasant woman'.

PigletJohn Sun 06-Jan-13 12:33:42

what dictionary is that then?

ComposHat Sun 06-Jan-13 12:34:16

Really Alis why is it mind boggling?

Both terms make reference to a person's physical characteristics (age/race/disability) and attach a negative connotations to it. To my mind 'old bag' and 'black bastard' are in the same category. Albeit different levels of offence.

Read my post again, I didn't say you would use these terms, I am pretty sure you wouldn't, but to draw attention to the casual use of ageist language (And I have been guilty of this myself in the past)

one dictionary
link 2

I may not be Oxford, but it's out there!

PigletJohn Sun 06-Jan-13 12:40:27

that's not a reliable dictionary. Can you see a hint of agism in the picture they provide?

Proudnscaryvirginmary Sun 06-Jan-13 12:41:20

Oh my fucking Lord

Only on Mumsnet!!!

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 06-Jan-13 12:45:03

Years of past and present oppression/discrimination in the cases of disabled,gay and black people is what makes it different to me.

I don't see calling someone an "old bag" as being the same as calling someone a "queer" as being the same thing at all.

Calling someone an old bag is simply rude. It's not discriminatory. Unlike sacking somebody because they are older,that actually is age discrimination.

edam Sun 06-Jan-13 12:47:50

Being prejudiced against older people IS discrimination just as much as homophobia. Sneering and calling names because of a characteristic you can't help such as you sexuality, age, gender, race or disability is plain wrong and equally wrong for each category.

I assume that free online dictionary doesn't define 'old' in 'old bag' because they assume it is clearly a reference to age...

'That's not a reliable dictionary'.

sigh

Carry on.

KobayashiMaru Sun 06-Jan-13 12:51:19

It hasn't been distinguished it has been asserted, and the vast majority have disagreed. Please do tell us all how old does not refer to age? hmm

KobayashiMaru Sun 06-Jan-13 12:54:46

and it has been defined by A dictionary, not the dictionary, big difference.

Look, here's a different one

simplesusan Sun 06-Jan-13 12:55:39

Op- you would have had my sympathy more if you too hadn't resulted to insults.

You call this woman on old bag. What does she term you as?
A usless single mother?
A scrounging young mum?
An unfit mother?

All negative terms and interestingly no equivalent term for an old man.
Btw I am not suggesting that you are a single/youg/unfit mother but again all those terms are negative, as opposed to "married" woman etc etc etc.......

Equivalent male term would probably be old fart.

But you can be an old bag or old fart regardless of age.

FanFuckingTastic Sun 06-Jan-13 12:59:26

And what is the big difference between screaming babies and screaming toddlers FiveFlowers? Educate me. Because I surely don't know, with two of my own.

sameoldlovebunny Sun 06-Jan-13 13:00:21

just been to asda. no-one screamed. do you think its just a tesco thing?

KobayashiMaru Sun 06-Jan-13 13:01:04

If you call someone an old bag who is young, you are using it as an insult to imply that they are like an old woman, which by definition you are saying is a bad thing.

I can't believe I have to elucidate this.....hmm

ComposHat Sun 06-Jan-13 13:07:52

Years of past and present oppression/discrimination in the cases of disabled,gay and black people is what makes it different to me.

So old people haven't been marginalised or discriminated agianst? Really?

I don't see calling someone an "old bag" as being the same as calling someone a "queer" as being the same thing at all

As I and others have said, both are offensive terms based on a physical characteristic. They are EXACTLY the same thing.

Calling someone an old bag is simply rude. It's not discriminatory. Unlike sacking somebody because they are older,that actually is age discrimination

By that logic, calling a female employee 'split arse' is merely rude just so long as you don't sack them?

CaHoHoHootz Sun 06-Jan-13 13:08:07

Seriously!!!

Trying to define 'old bag' !!!! grin

You are all bonkers

carefully uses non ageist, non sexist, non offensive term

Kobayashi, conversely old bag and old fart can be used as terms of endearment.

Calling an OLD woman OLD is not a crime. It's an adjective.

If she had called her 'A Bag'. Then not only would it not have made sense but it's not a very good insult.

Fucksakes, I didn't realise that everytime that we think of an insult for somebody that we had to research the precise etymology.

Bugger parenting, I am going to have enough issues trying to think of appropriate insults to use in everyday life that don't have any negative connotations.

Think I'll have my work cut out for me....

CaHoHoHootz. You are implying that we are all suffering from a mental illness. That is insulting and I demand that you think of something with absolutely no connotions whatsoever! wink

MotherNurture12 Sun 06-Jan-13 13:19:34

Absolutely ridiculous! There are far worse things going on in the world for you all to get so 'offended' by a post on a chat site! By the way, if she was the checkout operator then maybe she needs some training in customer service- she's not employed to hurl insults at people and try to make them feel inadequate.

CaHoHoHootz Sun 06-Jan-13 13:23:25

grin
Sorry, but it is hard to find a way to insult everyone without causing offence......

How about

'Stop wasting your time trying to define old bag you bunch of vipers'.

????????????????????????????????????????????????

5madthings Sun 06-Jan-13 13:34:04

Ignoring the argument about old bag...

Would nancy like to share her tips, how do you 'not let a child scream' if a baby or toddler is going to scream, in this case because he was in the trolley and not allowed out (note not running around screaming and being a pain as some have said) how do you not allow the screaming?

Babies cry, toddlers tantrum and scream
i am always sympathetic to parents when their children are crying (and grateful its not mine!)

But perhaps if nancy shares her marvellous parenting technique of not allowing crying/screaming then none of us will have to endure it again?!!

this is mumsnet at its worst, just out to jump on someone who happened to say something that didnt suit angry

Bunbaker Sun 06-Jan-13 13:44:31

Getting back to the point. Whenever I hear a child having a tantrum I always give the mum a sympathetic look. However, I can totally understand why the "old bag" found the child's screams incredibly irritating.

Now that DD is 12 and doesn't scream in supermarkets any more I am thankful that I have left that phase behind me. I can remember what it was like and know full well that you can't stop a toddler's tantrum in full flow, but also cringe when I hear that sound as it does go right through you. I would never criticise though.

peanutMD Sun 06-Jan-13 13:54:45

Oh my feckin' God, is this really still going on?

I cannot believe that people have nothing better than to than try to define a tongue in cheek comment which was made amidst a but of stress.

Presumably when someone (inevitably) yells leave the Bastard on a mundane thread about a man doing something 'wrong' then I will expect an uprise of folk yelling right back with questions on whether or not he was born to unwed parents and if not then why were people being discriminatory towards children of single parents...

Then again that won't happen, will it?

Because that its acceptable discrimination to most of you!

peanutMD Sun 06-Jan-13 13:56:58

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

5madthings Sun 06-Jan-13 14:00:21

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Hypnotism and chocolate digestives grin

5madthings Sun 06-Jan-13 14:08:26

...goes off to google books on how to hypnotise a toddler...

peanutMD Sun 06-Jan-13 14:11:23

grin

I was thinking perhaps organic flea food markets offered some sort of herbal remedies to sedate calm children so as not to bother the other rich folks who are too ignorant busy to deal with children.

Failing that the Nanny can always keep them entertained screaming at home.

peanut- in Wholefoods even the toddlers are dumbfounded by the prices wink

Might cost you the price of a new car for a month's shopping- but there will certainly be no shrieking!!

Moominsarehippos Sun 06-Jan-13 14:40:17

Actually there is. It's me at the till!

ilovesooty Sun 06-Jan-13 14:56:45

Being prejudiced against older people IS discrimination just as much as homophobia. Sneering and calling names because of a characteristic you can't help such as you sexuality, age, gender, race or disability is plain wrong and equally wrong for each category

Exactly. Try reading the list of protected characteristics as defined by the Equality Act 2010. Age is one of them.

SoleSource Sun 06-Jan-13 15:01:21

Wondering what other prejudices you have? Ageism is the most stupid.

JustAHolyFool Sun 06-Jan-13 15:04:20

I wonder if the people who are so dismissive of people's concern about ageism would be so dismissive if we were complaining about someone saying "a mincing queer" or a "fucking paki" who'd said the same thing.

There's no difference to my eye.

ilovesooty Sun 06-Jan-13 15:06:18

There isn't any difference. Mumsnet and many posters are quite rightly supportive of respect to disability, sexuality, race and ethnicity. Age comes a long way behind in people's perception.

5madthings Sun 06-Jan-13 15:12:34

Wtf i was deleted?!! Ha ha ha. For asking a poster her marvellous parenting techniques and asking anothet poster not to tell her to fuck off.

peanutMD Sun 06-Jan-13 15:26:08

5 - how date you defend another poster grin

I'm sorry I discriminated against twats...

Glittertwins Sun 06-Jan-13 15:31:00

Well, I'm not an "old bag" by any means and I have twins who are just school age but I had the fun of experiencing screaming children in M&S earlier. I got away pretty quick and no, my two have never done that. Giggle and laugh loudly but not ear piercing shrieking. I will now don my flame retardant suit.

5madthings Sun 06-Jan-13 15:35:10

Seriouslu i dont know why i was deleted and am slightly pissed off!!

glitter just bw grateful yours have never done the screaming. Two of my five never did eithet. Ds2 was hard work and ds4 and dd have their moments. Temprement is a lot to do with it ime.

As i said i am always sympathetic to parents with screaming/crying children. Yes its annoying but tbh i am.just grateful its not my child!

Glittertwins Sun 06-Jan-13 15:42:48

Sympathetic to parents who honestly look frazzled and are trying their best like OP but definitely not to the mum in today's experience and definitely think I am lucky too.

peanutMD Sun 06-Jan-13 15:43:46

Actually upon reading back I have just seen atleast 2 other posts calling Nancy an arsehole or similar, why are these still standing?

I was replying to a comment which demeaned the OP's parenting style and inferred that she was of a higher class because she earned more money.

I don't think I was wrong to say Fuck off to that and point out that all the money in the world won't make up for lack of empathy and manners.

Perhaps the poster used all of her money to pay off HQ to delete twattish posts wink

I mean her twattish posts. Not yours.

But feel glad that I'm only calling you a twat by mistake, at least I'm not inferring that you're old or young wink or skint or rich grin

peanutMD Sun 06-Jan-13 16:03:13

I did wonder grin

peanutMD Sun 06-Jan-13 16:06:08

I am a relatively (live within my means) comfortable (skint by most peoples standards), young(ish), fat twat grin

It's ok, god just punished me for making the mistake and my toddler did a HUGE wee all down the stairs.

In essence, God just called me a twat and dealt me a twatty blow.

Moominsarehippos Sun 06-Jan-13 16:12:38

You can be sued for ageism if you tried to get rid of someone because of their age.

This won't necessarily be old age - I can imagine a few trendy stores with the gorgeous young things serving who would banish you to the stock room once you got a grey hair.

Good point Moomins....has anyone ever seen a person over the age of 25 working in Hollister for example?

ilovesooty Sun 06-Jan-13 16:17:08

Oh yes: age discrimination is valid at both ends of the spectrum. However in terms of this forum, the workplce and people's attitudes in general older people are much more likely to be treated dismissively, referred to in derogatory terms, and be described negatively.

TeapotofDoom Sun 06-Jan-13 16:29:03

Oops, sorry OP. It must be my middle aged woman's pre senile dementia. Am saying aloud what I thought I was only thinking, again, when behind some woman with a screaming brat in the supermarket?

Ah. Let's be honest. She was only saying what everyone else in the queue was thinking...

peanutMD Sun 06-Jan-13 16:39:07

And off it goes again hmm

JustAHolyFool Sun 06-Jan-13 17:08:17

peanutMD if you find it so utterly tedious, why not just hide the thread?

OK, you're bored. Don't keep posting then!

Really, there was no need for that at all. Peanut had a perfectly valid point as it's the same argument repeated every 50 posts.

peanutMD Sun 06-Jan-13 17:11:44

I'm too busy laughing at the irony of people banging on about ageism towards the older generation then calling children brats in the same breath hmmgrin

JustAHolyFool Sun 06-Jan-13 17:12:40

Well if people want to discuss it, what's the problem mrscumberbatch ? It is, after all, a discussion forum.

So I don't think she has a valid point at all, because rather than pissing on people's chips with her sighing and eye-rolling she could just hide the thread.

ilovesooty Sun 06-Jan-13 17:16:42

I'm too busy laughing at the irony of people banging on about ageism towards the older generation then calling children brats in the same breath

Not all who are concerned (which I think is more polite than the term you used) about ageism have called children "brats" or insulted them in any way.

peanutMD Sun 06-Jan-13 17:16:55

I'm not a chip pisser, I just think that the conversation has moved on.

I wasn't clear I admit, its the fact that people keep banging on about a slip of the tongue remark then marking down a child for.. Erm... Acting like a child hmm

You are either anti-ageism or you're not.

peanutMD Sun 06-Jan-13 17:17:45

Okay some, not all.

I admit that was a sweeping statement.

Sighing and eyerolling is as valid a contribution to an online forum as any retort!

If people want to behave like teenagers then it's allowed. By not allowing it's it's AGEIST didn't you know?

ilovesooty Sun 06-Jan-13 17:19:24

I admit that was a sweeping statement

Thank you.

peanutMD Sun 06-Jan-13 17:20:18

How very dare you make assumptions about me!

I never sigh or eyeroll, I raise an eyebrow!

I'm in such a permanent state of raised eyebrow that people are starting to presume that I've had botox that's gone array.

JustAHolyFool Sun 06-Jan-13 17:27:29

Well I shall leave you to your metadiscussion then.

LaCiccolina Sun 06-Jan-13 17:28:22

The attitude demonstrated made the woman an old bag. The term would often have been old wind bag. Im sure thats derivative of something (musical instrument maybe?) Not the age.

Bit like u can be a spoilt brat at 35. I dont really see age as the poknt here. I'm on op team. I'd hope I'd have given her what for. Possibly if be dreaming of what if after too.

Mangy old witch! (Ha! Take that! Professional offended politically correcters!) ;)

AlbertoFrog Sun 06-Jan-13 17:35:37

Is it just me or does every so often a post which normally would be treated in a light hearted manner get pounced on and the OP ripped to shreds?

The OP did not say anything rude or discriminatory to the whatever aged, outspoken, opinionated woman behind her in the queue. She came on here to have a wee rant and get it off her chest.

Are you all so stressed out after the festivities that you have to vent on this thread?

Mind you I'm finding it all quite amusing so please carry on grin

p.s. Is it not time to get shot of the festive smileys?

Moominsarehippos Mon 07-Jan-13 08:36:01

Cowbag. Now what's wrong with that term?

And I do sigh, eyeroll (DH says that he can hear it) and raise eyebrows, and I don't care. I wouldn't take on a mum with a screeching kid though - that's like prodding an angry dog (no good will come of it).

Theshriekingharpy Mon 07-Jan-13 09:47:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Theshriekingharpy Mon 07-Jan-13 09:57:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ancientcliffhanger Mon 07-Jan-13 10:37:50

This reminded me of something which happened in a Tesco supermarket when I was attempting to find a trolley for 6 month old twins and toddler years ago. All the children were in the car (obviously within my sight) whilst I was searching for said trolley closeby. Couldn't find suitable trolley so was heading back to car when I noticed this old woman hovering round the car looking at my children (her husband was lurking nearby). I asked her 'is anything wrong' and she launched into a tirade of how disgusting it was to leave children in the car whilst I went shopping!

Of course she wasn't interested in my explanantion about the 'trolley search mission' and I'm afraid I lost it and called her an interfering old bag who should mind her own business or at least offer to help me find a trolley!! She stomped off to do her shopping with her sheepish husband and I bumped into her in supermarket when I was struggling round it with my 3 kids ten mins later. I might have used a few choice words again I'm afraid.

Over the years I've had many comments from similarly minded 'know it alls' and I've learnt to grow a thick skin - or try to anyway. These people seem to relish criticising others and I can only conclude that they are a bit bitter, sad and twisted in some way.

It's so hard being a parent sometimes!!

Moominsarehippos Mon 07-Jan-13 10:57:43

I did call someone a mad old bat who would be locked up. But she was. It amused a gaggle of pensioner aged ladies who agreed with me.

The MOB started it!

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