To be annoyed with "vegetarians&qu
ot; that eat fish
If you eat fish then you aren't a vegetarian - it's as simple as that! I'm a vegetarian and it pisses me off when I say so, and the next question is "do you eat fish?" Er, no, because I already said that I'm VEGETARIAN. It's just lazy and it causes confusion for actual vegetarians.
Now I appreciate that the term pescetarian is a bit of a clunky term that is unlikely to be used. But it IS the correct name for the fish eating brigade.
I agree. I am not a vegetarian but find it hard to understand the "i am vegetarian but I eat fish" way of thinking!
Agreed. Call yourself what you are - a pescatarian - dammit. I mean, eat what you like, obviously, but it makes life a lot harder for the rest of us, who end up in awkward situations where someone has gone to a lot of trouble to make some complex fish dish for a dinner party 'because my friend told me vegetarians always love this mackerel surprise' or whatever.
Pescatarian is no more clunky a term than vegetarian.
YANBU! I hate when people claim to be vegetarian yet they still eat fish. You can't eat fish and still be a vegetarian! Eating a fish is the same as eating meat.
YANBU - I'm a fishocrite myself, but always used to say 'vegetarian' when asked about catering (eg. weddings) because a) the rest of the family are proper veggies & b) people either don't know what a pescetarian is, or assume chicken is pretty much the same thing as fish...
After numerous bunfights, sorry, polite discussions lurked on on here, I no longer use the term vegetarian to refer to myself for the reasons in the OP. Tis a fair point.
Do people actually think that way though or do they just say vegetarian for ease?
In pescatarian (sp) and say so, but often just say vegetarian because i know a lot of people don't know what the other one means so its easier than explaining. I also find that some people are too embarrassed to say they don't know what it means so make a guess which doesn't always end well. I can't say "Im a pescatarian, do you know what that means?" because that would be patronizing.
My sister is a veggie who eats chicken- but only at restaurants.
Im still unsure on why she thinks resturant chicken is fine
There's something about the term 'pescatarian' that makes my teeth itch I have no idea why, I know it is the right phrase to use, it just... irritates me. I fully appreciate I am being U about that!
YANBU. I eat fish - therefore I'm not a vegetarian.
There was a long-running letters thread in the Guardian (before the website and CiF days), asking what name should be given to vegetarians who eat fish. The killer blow was landed by the correspondent who wrote one word: 'hypocrite'.
Hmm, Raven, from a veggie viewpoint chicken IS the same as fish, iyswim!
If people used the word pescetarian more then people would understand it. I don't think it's a huge deal to say "I'm pescetarian, so I don't eat red meat or chicken" if you're asked about dietary requirements.
I used to have a vegatarian aunty that ate chicken
Claps ravenAK on the back.
Fuckadoodle, I think you can explain without it seeming patronising. I'm veggie but often end up having to make things quite clear, because some restaurants/hosts don't think about things like meat or chicken stock in a soup etc. And some people ask whether eat cheese made with animal rennet etc.
I think you could say 'I'm a pescatarian - that is, a veggie who also eats fish but no other meat or poultry' without coming across as awful.
I used to be vegetarian and am now pescatarian but i just can't bring myself to give a shit about the labels. I don't really understand how people how the time and energy to worry about this sort of stuff.
My MIL is vegetarian and eats fish. I have never understood it but its each to their own and all that.
Argh, don't get me started on
idiots people who say they are veggie but then list all the meat that they will eat.
When working in my university refectory as a summer job, I once served a very stroppy "vegan" who had a tantrum about there not being a special vegan dessert provided. After much huffing and puffing she eventually said "oh, I'll just have a yoghurt" - wtf?
You are not a vegetarian if you eat fish. Fact.
I've also met vegatarian who eat chicken.
A vegan eating a yoghurt! Now, thats's a hypocrite!
My pal used to be a vegetarian but she ate prawns as "they have no central nervous system". So, either they're actually vegetables or she just really liked prawns.
I'm inclined to agree with you on that one too, exBB, but my 13 year old brain nearly 30 years ago (when I stopped eating meat) was more bothered about battery chooks & veal calves than it was about cod quotas or salmon farms.
I'd probably eat (organic, free range) meat with a relatively clear conscience too now tbh, but force of long habit makes me boak at the thought.
It only ever seems to come up if I'm in a restaurant with workmates & order fish - someone will say 'oh but I thought you were vegetarian?' - having invariably seen me with a vegetarian packed lunch - & I'll say 'no, pescatarian actually, but I very seldom eat fish because dh & one of the dcs are veggie, so I just always eat vegetarian food at home.'
You're right OP, they're not vegetarian... They're pescetarians...
I've also met vegatarian who eat chicken.
Me too, a friend of dp's smugly claimed he was a vegetarian who only ate fish and chicken.
I'm happily a carnivore but I too get annoyed with veggies that eat fish. Either their veggie or pescetarian - can't be both.
I used to successfully shut quite a few up by declaring that if they were fish-eating veggies then that made me a meat-eating veggie as I didn't eat fish. When they stopped laughing and started to tell me that I was being ridiculous I would point out that I was exactly the same as them, and that if they could call themselves veggie for not eating one broad group of animals, then so could I - I don't eat fish (albeit because I can't stand the taste/smell rather than for any worth reasons).
It was great - used to hack them off because they couldn't disagree without making their own use of fish-eating veggie invalid
(disclaimer - just ought to make it clear that I don't normally call mysel a meat eating veggie or believe that such a thing exists - other than when arguing with fish eating veggies!!)
Well I am not a vegetarian but I refer to myself as such when asked about my dietary requirements. It is because I meet a lot of new people on a regular basis and I generally have to explain to them why I don't eat meat (medical reasons) and do not want to explain every single time what a pescetarian is as well.
However, if people are veggies for ethical reasons I really really do not understand how they can justify eating chicken (in particular) or fish.
stoopid people don't know what pescatarian means so look at you like you've grown a second head when you say it.
I just say I don't eat things that feel pain. Then wait for the desperate bleatings about screaming cabbages.
Where did the 'but I eat fish/chicken' thing come from though? How did that start off as a commonly accepted exception, particularly the chicken thing?
You never hear someone say 'well, I'm veggie but I eat duck' or 'I'm veggie but I eat lamb' do you?
Agree with puds...moreover if we are going to split hairs, then we need a separate term for each of the categories - vegans, vegans who eat dairy (vegetarians), vegetarians who eat eggs, vegetarians who eat chicken, vegetarians who eat fish......and any combinations of the above or indeed any other food groups. Am sure proper terms exist to describe each of these and more. Unnecessarily complicating things. It's easy to understand what a person WILL eat if he says 'veggie but eat fish/ chicken'.
On a second issue raised by some posters, food choice is a personal choice - it may or may not have anything to do with 'ethics'. Don't judge others for their food choices, so long as they are not putting others out by it.
I'm an ex veggie. when pregnant with dts I couldn't manage much food due to severe reflux, so persuaded myself to eat some fish as a high nutritional density food. I am still eating it whilst bf them. so far, I can tolerate smoked salmon, Prawn cocktail, or haddock if I cook it myself (i gave up meat and fish as a child because they made me feel sick, and adopted the politics after). yet on my works Christmas do I listed my dietary requirements as veggie because it is very unlikely I'd be able to eat any fish they served. a Jewish friend of mine says she's veggie at such things to be sure the food will fit in her version of kosher.
so... yanbu. if someone eats fish they are not veggie, and saying they are makes life more complicated for the next veggie who'll come along. but some of us not-veggies may still have valid reasons for saying we want to eat veggie food when out.
YADNBU. I was 'kindly informing' my housemate of this yesterday when he mentioned a vegetarian eating fish. I hate it, drives me mad!
My DP calls them "fakeatarians"
Wow, I'm amazed it angers people so' surely life is too short. I'm a pescetarian but sometimes say I'm vegetarian because I can't be bothered explaining or I'm not given the option, for example when I'm attending a function. I all try to be more thoughtful in future
OP, YANBU. This is a bugbear of mine. I am vegetarian, I don't eat fish. If I ate fish, I wouldn't be vegetarian. That's really all there is to it.
Pisses me right off.
I am a vegetarian & it makes life very difficult. Even with friends you've know for years , "can't you just eat a bit of fish?" .
I don't mind so much if people use 'vegetarian' out of convenience when I know they sometimes eat fish, if they're prepared to actually be vegetarian for that occasion. If they go on to order fish in a restaurant after asking loads of questions about what's suitable for vegetarians, it gives the impression that we will all eat fish.
This argument that 'veggies' who eat fish will somehow make it confusing for omnivores to understand what vegetarianism is is specious.
People eat/don't eat a vast range of things for a vast number of reasons, we don't fit into little boxes (which I reckon is a good thing)
Some friends of mine won't eat anything that has the capacity to feel pain - include eggs in this description, but not milk...
A vegetarian diet with a bit of fish thrown in must surely be the healthiest diet there is. So, a good choice. But I agree that anyone who eats fish is not a vegetarian. What they mean is that they don't eat meat.
I don't eat nuffink wiv a face
How does an egg have the capacity to feel pain? Especially as mass produced egg are unfertilised.
It is not a difficult concept - if you eat chicken or fish you are not vegetarian. There is no 'but...' if you need the 'but' *you are NOT vegetarian'
Beamur - it is a big deal because now when I eat out and ask for the vegetarian option I get offered salmon/cod/whatever and it is NOT vegetarian, that is frustrating enough, but what worries me more is that if a restaurant/chef thinks it's OK to serve fish as a vegetarian option, what the hell else do they think it's OK to put in my food.
How would you like to keep refusing cat/dog and worry about it being in your food? Same thing.
YABU, who cares what they call it.
FWIW I don't understand why vegetarians eat dairy as so much cruelty in the dairy industry.....
Oh to those who choose the vegetarian option or tell the chef they are vegetarian (when they aren't) that's totally fine - so long as you don't then order fish or chicken!
Mary - there are already terms for each 'option' of food choice
Well I'm an ex pescatarian who called myself a vegetarian who now eats meat (rarely) but always state vegetarian on dietary requirements as I will only eat the odd bit of good quality traceable meat so wouldn't want to be served up something I haven't pre-approved....
foreveronadiet - WE do for the reasons outlined above.
Dairy - that's an entirely different thread.
YANBU, eating fish is just not vegetarianism. Fish eaters who call themselves vegetarians are almost as bad as people who know you're a vegetarian and think you'll be fine with eating a meal that just has a little bit of meat in it. Or chicken or even wafer thin ham.
It's Kurt Cobain's fault for telling everyone that it's ok to eat fish because they don't have any feelings.
DD (12) is pescatarian, but we often say she is vegetarian because it is easier. There is nothing veggie based that she won't eat (although she isn't really keen on quorn mince), but there is an awful lot of fish she wouldn't eat. In reality she only eats tuna (tinned and steaks), prawns and scampi.
She won't eat anything gelatine based at all, but we have agreed a compromise on cheese, until she is responsible for her own shopping!
I heard the expression today
by a person who eats fish but no other meat
surely that is a better way of labelling yourself than vegetarian
Vegetarians who eat eggs and milk (and milk products) are called lacto- ovo vegetarians. You can eat only fruit = fruitarian.
Vegetarians definitely do not eat anything which once lived ie meat and fish/shellfish. When I first became vegetarian (32yrs ago) I ate fish, after receiving information from the Vegetarian Society, I stopped eating fish because it pointed out in the literature that VEGETARIANS DON'T EAT FISH.
YANBU. I know someone who eats fish (a lot!) but always describes herself as vegetarian - drives me nuts, for all the reasons explained so well in this thread. But I feel the need to share her rationale for consuming fish: "because she can't bear the idea of eating something that looks after its young". And fish don't, apparently. It's all very simple and we're not allowed to argue. Logic, not so much...
Hmm, well our family are vegetarian at home. Everyone except me is vegetarian full stop. DH feels strongly about animal welfare as do DC's now, following in his footsteps.
I quite like the occasional bit of fish when I'm out with friends. Perhaps it's a slight rebelliousness when away from home. Perhaps I just like the different taste and to enjoy different cultural cuisines more fully. I've also caught fish myself and feel it's different in some ways to killing other animals which I can't imagine myself doing and so wouldn't want to ask others to do for me.
There's also evidence that eating fish and vegetables is quite a natural, healthy, and sustainable diet.
So, I do think being a pesky pescatarian can be a reasonable and considered choice.
The term "vegetarian" is much older (1840's ?) than the new term pescatarian (1990's ?) so IMHO it's understandable if it's not thoroughly used and understood as yet.
Also, you cannot just blame pescatarian's for others intolerance and misunderstanding of vegetarians. I have been offered fish even when I've said I was vegetarian.
I guess at the end of the day there are some people who will eat fish but not (other) meat. Just as there are people who decline red meat.
At the end of the day people are entitled to make their own dietary preferences known (in whatever way they feel will be understood ?)
There was a thread about this a couple of weeks ago and someone made the point that if you say that you are pescatarian, it not only sounds wanky but implies that fish is the majority of your diet.
I eat certain types of fish cooked a certain type of way (autistic with severe food issues) a few times a year and only at home. I remember DH telling BIL that I ate fish and I was presented with a whole one with the skin, eyes and bones in when my major reason for not eating meat is that I can't stomach the flesh and the former-aliveness of it <sounder weirder by the word>
So I say I am mostly vegetarian. Seems like a decent compromise.
I was fully vegetarian growing up though and was always being told that surely a bit of ham or chicken would be alright so I do see that side of it too.
Well I think YAB a but U!
My DH was vegetarian for 25 years until last year when he decided he would eat some types of line caught sustainable fish.
Now, for ease, when giving information for say a flight or a wedding he says vegetarian - not everyone has heard of pescetarian.
I am one of those people who, when offered meat, say they're vegetarian.
I eat fish at home on rare occasions but don't eat it out at restaurants and haven't eaten meat since I was 12.
For that reason, it's easier to say I'm veggie because as far as they need to know, I am one. It saves on a lot of unnecessary explaining and makes eating easier whilst out.
I can't bear all the "lecturer vegetarians" who impose their beliefs on others with their holier than you bullshit (you know who you are).
This winds me up so badly. We have an (almost) family member who does this and I want to strangle them. You.are.not.a.vegetarian.....
but you are a giant pain in the ass
I think you sound eminently reasonable Audrina
Saying you're a pescatarian sounds like you just live on fish. It's a stupid term.
I've been a vegetarian since I was 14 yo (I'm now 46yo).
So you can imagine back in the early 1980s it was more Health Food Shops than supermarkets.
So many times I'm asked "Do you eat fish or chicken"
"Oh, so you're a vegan "
" No "
Then I have to explain lacto-ovo . But usually I don't explain
Juggling - I would say the family is vegetarian but I am not, we eat a vegetarian diet at home but when I'm out I sometimes eat fish. (Err that's YOU not me, I don't eat fish )
People aren't really entitled to make their own dietary preferences known in whatever way they feel will be understood when the cost is making that word meaningless. There are other ways of making yourself understood without making the general understanding of 'vegetarian' incorrect.
When I gave up meat in ernest I still ate fish. I have no idea why, it was wrong considering why I gave up meat. Thats not the case now
Maybe they're hobbyists or staring out like I was. Meat and Fish are everywhere so it's easier to be pescatarian at first.
These people are a damn sight better than the ones who quiz you on being a vegetarian then proclaim (much to everyone else's amusement) "but sausages are laaaarrrvley!!!! (so is not seeing your face in the room)
MrsBunglebear/Mama - that's fine. It's not a problem booking/saying you are 'vegetarian' it's when that person then says 'Oh, I'll have the fish' that the problems arise.
Thank you Juggling
All these labels... DH eats
too much meat but doesn't like lamb and it doesn't like him (TMI) but he has never had to explain himself.
I just think you'll find it's the traditional meat eaters not the pesky pescatarians that are really most to blame for failing to take on board the pretty simple understanding of a vegetarian diet
Vegetarians do not eat fish so YANBU
I'm a lapsed veggie (30 years, with vegan stints)
I find saying "I don't eat meat" suffices.
In fact it is better than saying you are vegetarian as you are less likely to be looked at as a hippy
even in this day and age.
My friend does use the term Pescatarian because she was a proper veggie for years and for her it was a bug bear! But, she only eats fish not sea food and wont eat or wear any animal products at all. She started eating fish in pregnancy because she was craving it after 20 years of not eating it and felt that it was her body telling her she needed it.
But with weddings, restaurants etc she uses vegetarian as it is much simpler. As a PP said, some people think that a bit of chicken or "wafer thin ham" will be ok!
Any proper vegetarian who is vegetarian for moral reasons would not want to eat fish. Fish is still meat from something that was once alive and is now dead for food.
(sorry that was in response to Chipping In - I should remember to say !)
I dont eat meat btw, but I am not veggie! I just dont like meat but I dont have a moral or dietary objection to it. I eat animal products.
Yanbu. We are all veggie. I blame these fish eating so called vegetarians for me being offered fish when I have said I am veggie. So many people/restaurants seem to think being vegetarian means that you eat fish.
I have a friend who went veggie for about 1 month, however in this month she still ate fish and chicken. I mean wtf?!
That really annoys me when so called veggies eat chicken as well!
If I said to anyone that I was vegetarian I would always take the veggie option.
A couple of times though, once at a small lunch, and once at a friends house abroad, there wasn't a veggie option - only fish or fish eggs (after I had reassured them that DH and I did eat eggs - "yes, all varieties !" - this was in Japan !)
So, I have eaten fish after asking for a vegetarian diet, but only when there was no other option provided (IIRC) - though at the lunch I guess I could have just had the veggies.
Well, YANBU. But then, I am guilty of letting people believe I am vegetarian because it does make life easier. I'm not politically or ethically opposed to eating meat, but I prefer not to - this is a lifelong preference since earliest childhood. If someone serves me meat, I will try my damnedest to eat it because that's good manners (if you're not a principled vegetarian, IYSWIM), but it's ever so much easier to just say 'yes' if they ask if I'm vegetarian. I will eat fish, but I'm more hardline on shellfish than I am on meat - there is no way on this earth I could ever put a prawn in my mouth, which is a hangover of my Jewish heritage - and I feel like a real twat running through a long list of likes and dislikes.
But if I'm asked to describe my food preferences, I would usually say, "I prefer not to eat meat or shellfish".
Yanbu. Used to drive me crackers when I was a veggie... No I do not want fish and chips. And as for chicken, how anyone can say they are a vegetarian but eat chicken is beyond me. I was a vegetarian for 12years, then I had some chicken, I was no longer a vegetarian and no longer classed myself as one.
The clue is in the name.
People who only eat veg/fruit = vegetarian
People who eat veg/fruit/fish = pescetarian
I remember having a massive row with a dinner lady at school who was insisting that vegetarians do eat fish. I politely informed her (using politer terminology) that I couldn't give a flying fuck what she (wrongly) thought vegetarians ate, I DID NOT!
I agree that you are quite simply not a vegetarian if you eat fish.
DrRanj good for you! Bet she had a shock
hypocrite friend calls herself a vegetarian but eats fish and chicken
I hate the old "no it's vegans that don't eat fish" usually said by a know-it-all pub quiz type who clearly knows better than you, even though you have been a (proper non fish eating) vegetarian for 20 years, and a vegan (in the true sense of the word) for at least two of those. ...
Just to clarify things, "vegetarian" does not come from the word "vegetables". The Vegetarian Society states that it comes from the Latin "vegetal", meaning lively or vigorous. While this day and age it is taken to mean someone who does not eat meat or fish, it is not necessarily a description of somebody who only eats plants. Technically, the name is open to different interpretation (cultural or religious).
Fortunately, it does not and never has, excluded Rum!
The last time I drank Rum was twenty two years ago (half bottle of Captain Morgan's one Sixth Form afternoon) and I was the complete opposite of lively and vigorous
Who cares really?
If someone who eats fish refers to themselves as being a vegetarian, then I couldn't give a toss.
Why does anyone? It's not like you get a special certificate and a medal for being a proper vegetarian is it? At least, not outside of your own head.
What does it matter?
It matters because 'we' veggies get labelled as fussy and awkward.
We have a limited choice when eating out, as providers think we eat fish because of the selfish cunts that are pescetarians but are too fucking lazy and entitled to explain properly their dietary requirements. Look up thread for examples of them.
Whilst you don't give a toss, myself and thousands of others do.
'Too fucking lazy and entitled'??
I think you need a Valium and a little sit down, love
Because of course, making a song and dance about people who eat fish calling themselves veggie for the sake of argument, won't make you seem fussy and awkward at all.
because of the selfish cunts that are pescetarians but are too fucking lazy and entitled to explain properly their dietary requirements
You're not awkward or fussy are you? You're well easy going.
Of course - there is no graver insult known to western culture than being thought of as a fish eater.
I see your point now.
Slightly OT but I hope the vegans/veggies will be able to tell me!
Do vegans eat eggs? Part of me thinks that they would as hens will lay anyway so it is a natural by-product, but part of me understands why not as they are still an animal product.
That was a Q about natural processes btw, not the start of an argument about induced laying, battery hens etc.
It matters, pictish, as several people have pointed out above, because for real vegetarians, being offered fish when you are a proper vegetarian just because a few other people who claim they are vegetarian yet eat fish flesh have happily done so, is very frustrating. Why have labels for anything if we aren't going to stick to their definitions?
I'm a non-smoker but I only smoke B&H. It doesn't happen. So why this muddying of the waters?
Well, puds, use the term when relevant, and then people will learn, won't they! Why just perpetuate the ignorance?
Pescatarians who call themselves vegetarians are PESTatarians!
exBrightonBell, the egg may not feel pain, but the egg industry is horrific. Male chicks are chucked into bin liners alive until they slowly suffocate, or plopped on a conveyer belt to be mashed up, a method that doesn't kill many them efficiently and causes horrific pain. Egg-laying chickens do not have a good life, and 'free-range' is rather a meaningless term. There is hideous cruelty in the egg industry, so eating eggs directly causes pain and suffering.
Bogey - no they don't. Vegans don't eat or use anything that is derived from an animal (including bees - ie honey)
Pictish. Do you ever get bored of being so rude?
Who gives a shit? Really, can't they just call it what they like?
(ex vegetarian who now eats meat but not fish)
Bogey, x-posted. No, vegans do not eat eggs. Vegans consume no animal products whatsoever, nor do we use animals for clothing/toiletries/entertainment (e.g. zoos or circuses). Vegans do not see them as objects to use, but as existing for their own purposes.
Eggs, as I just posted, come from a barbaric industry. I can provide links if you are interested in finding out more.
Probably the vegetarians who are served the 'vege' option which turns out to contain fish, because people calling themselves vegetarian when they're not leads to confusion about what vegetarians eat.
To hijack the thread just a little bit, can anyone tell me about this chicken feathers in bread business? Does that mean shop bought bread is not vegetarian? I don't buy leather shoes, bags or belts and am definitely not going to buy or feed my kids chicken feathers
I know a lot about the egg industry but was just wondering about the vegan stand point. I dont take my DC to zoos (or allow them to be taken) but they do eat eggs.
I am not veggie but dont eat meat and dont tolerate animal cruelty, despite being almost phobic with live animals. Go figure!
I was a vegetarian who did not eat fish for 12 years.
In all that time, I was offered fish maybe five times in total?
I said no thank you, I don't eat fish.
And that was it. Nothing else happened.
This thread is a load of self important nonsense about something that doesn't affect anyone at all.
Yes, if you say you are vegetarian and someone offers you fish surely you can either accept or decline depending on your actual dietary preferences - if you like on whether you are actually a vegetarian or a pescatarian ?
IME You cannot really blame pescatarian's for muddying the waters - they have as much right to their dietary preference as you do as a vegetarian even if true veggies understandably see their dietary choice as a purer, more philosophically rigorous one.
Better understanding would see fish no longer offered as a vegetarian option by restaurants and other catering establishments.
If you are a vegetarian because of animal cruelty you shouldn't eat any dairy products. Because producing them necessitates pointless slaughter of newborn calves. We have quite a few vegetarians among our friends but most of the times it's more about status than anything else.
I don't mind what people call themselves. I do mind fish being included as a vegetarian option in restaurants. I have been to a wedding where the vegetarian option was salmon.
That isn't the consumers fault. It is the fault of the caterer or the restaurant involved.
I don't eat red meat or chicken, I love fish and sometimes have to eat meat when at, for example, at my bosses house. What am I? A fussy eater and a bit lazy.
I'm not a vegetarian for ethical or moral reasons. It's all about the disgusting taste and texture
Why should a vegetarian, after asking what the veggie options are, be offered fish The fact that this happens, in my opinion, highlights a persons lack of general knowledge...
I've also sent a meal back after being given fish - I'm not eating the fish or anything else that is on the plate nor am I willing to pay for the food just because the chef/waiter doesn't know what a vegetarian is...
Why do I bother specifying that I'm a vegetarian when no one seems to know what it is. Think I'll just say I don't eat meat but then I'll still get asked 'but do you eat fish'? Erm... No because fish is meat
are you thick?
It annoys me far more than it should, but I don't see why I have to correct people when it should be bloody obvious
Why on earth would somebody be a vegetarian for status?! I have received more ridicule than reverence for being a vegetarian.
Chipping - I just noticed you have made a point of telling me I'm rude there, while completely ignoring the poster who refers to pescetarians as selfish cunts who are lazy and entitled, before going on to whine about them being the reason vegetarians are thought of as fussy and awkward.
1. They're not the reason.
2. That's pretty rude.
Pescetarians saying they are vegetarian for their own ease is neither here nor there. It affects nothing and no-one in any real, tangible sense. I was a veggie for a long time, and I know that to be true. Very few people assume vegetarians eat fish. Very few.
To me, it's like saying you couldn't be a proper Bros fan if you liked Brother Beyond as well.
If you are a vegetarian because of animal cruelty you shouldn't eat any dairy products. Because producing them necessitates pointless slaughter of newborn calves. We have quite a few vegetarians among our friends but most of the times it's more about status than anything else.
Newborn calves are killed to make dairy products?!
I doubt that there are any sort of status benefits from pretending to be vegetarian!
I used to get asked many years ago if i didn't eat meat because it "was trendy" but only ever by people who thought my not eating meat was some sort of personal attack on them and would set them on the attack. Very strange. Some people have a real chip about it.
pictish, I think Bros fans were far more territorial of their label than vegetarians!
fuckadoodlepoopoo some people have a real chip about what other people eat regardless of the reason. Have you ever been on any thread where people are whining about how you should clear your plate because 'it's ruuuuude' not to?
Vegetarians don't eat fish. Or animal rennet, gelatine etc.
Dh's aunt is a pescetarian. She eats fish and a vegetarian diet.
She says she's vegetarian for the sake of ease.
30 or so years ago she got food poisoning from a piece of meat. Very very bad food poisoning, which required a 999 dash to hospital. She was very ill.
She hasn't touched red meat, game or poultry or any foodstuffs pertaining to, since. She does however, eat fish.
If she goes to dinner, she tells people she is a vegetarian, as she eats a mainly vegetarian diet. She doesn't expect anyone to go to the bother of giving her fish.
If she eats out she can choose the fish if she likes.
She is a bloody lovely woman, and not at all lazy or entitled.
It takes all sorts. This thread is very juvenile.
It doesn't take a lot of explaining to say you're a pescetarian:
"I'm a pescetarian, not a vegetarian."
"Oh, what's that?"
"A vegetarian who eats fish."
Newborn male calves are killed because there are dairy and meat breeds of cows. They are no use for meat and can't give milk later on so they are taken away from their mothers straight after birth and taken to a slaughterhouse the next day. Population needs more milk than meat anyway so more milk equals more killed calves. I would say that the majority of vegetarians are far removed from farming so have quite approximate understanding of how dairy products, eggs etc are produced and what is used for fertilising vegetables.
I don't label myself. Other people want to label me.
I ordered the veggie option at the works xmas dinner - to lots of calls of 'oh, I didn't know you were a veggie!' and 'are you a vegetarian?'
Like it even matters.
I don't get this obsession with labelling an individual's diet. I understand that it can come in useful when someone else is catering for you or when choosing a restaurant, but other than that - who cares!
I am a vegetarian, and i dont eat fish. If i had to chose between eating meat or fish it would be meat as i detest fish.
I had a friend years ago that was vegetarian but ate meat on special occasions - so not a vegetarian.
If people who eat fish stopped claiming to be vegetarian you wouldn't get stupid adverts like the Morrisons one
Why do people feel the need to label themselves and then shout about it? I don't eat meat. This means that in a restaurant I choose either a veggie or a fish dish. Most of my friends actually serve veggie dishes if they're entertaining, but if they don't I just don't eat the meat. It's a spectacular non-issue as far as I'm concerned.
Crikey - fancy an advert making a ham fisted and inaccurate generalisation!
That has never happened before.
None of us are exempt from it, Mrs Super Special.
I don't eat meat. This means that in a restaurant I choose either a veggie or a fish dish.
You do realise that since fish is the flesh of an animal it is technically meat... right?
Jins Fri 04-Jan-13 10:31:00 fuckadoodlepoopoo some people have a real chip about what other people eat regardless of the reason. Have you ever been on any thread where people are whining about how you should clear your plate because 'it's ruuuuude' not to?
I know! Its so weird!
But why did they make that inaccurate generalisation and why do restaurants make the same generalisation if not for non vegetarians claiming to be something they are quite clearly not... I'm sick of people asking 'so you eat fish then' or worse still just assuming I do because so and so is a veggie and they eat fish
I don't see the point of the labelling debate. There is such a great diversity of diets that to make a label for each would take a dictionary. I can sort of see the plight of "pure" vegetarians or "pure" vegans, but I don't believe that it is best addressed through telling other people how they should call themselves. A more effective strategy would be to campaign for more purely vegan meals at restaurants that would satisfy the most fussy vegan and all others so inclined by default.
Calls for a pure vegetarian race are reductive, unrealistic and patronising. I have a vegan friend who is very vegan, but will eat things with milk and eggs in them like cakes in other people's houses. I myself have been a "pseudo-vegetarian", as I like to call myself, for a number of years. I don't eat meat, but will sometimes eat fish and seafood. I don't label myself as "pescatarian" because it just sounds incredibly wanky and implies that I eat loads of fish when I don't. I mainly eat wild fish that my relatives catch during the fishing season. I also avoid (but not always) eggs and milk. So is there a label for me? What would be the point? I always order vegetarian options at restaurants and events. This causes many people to assume that I am a vegetarian and I often have to dispel their notions.
We were on holiday a couple of years ago and got chatting to a lady who is the aunt of some friends, she is a vegetarian but ordered fish in a restaurant which came whole! It had the head on and everything and she proceeded to eat it as it was all the while saying who lovely it was!
Surely if you don't eat animals for ethical reasons, eating a whole dead fish is a bit odd. Other than the fact they aren't cute and fluffy of course!!
gallifrey, why is eating a whole fish any more disturbing that eating a piece of fillet or a fish finger? Although I agree that the lady was misguided on the mainstream meaning of "vegetarian."
I know some vegans who eat eggs if laid by their own (rescue) hens in their garden, they feel slightly guilty about this but their ethics of causing no harm mean they feel it is ethical.
DH (also vegan) would not eat those eggs because his belief is that the product of the animal belongs to the animal and thus we have no right to take the eggs in the first place.
People have to make their own ethical decisions and you can tie yourself in knots over them. I would imagine most vegetarians who eat fish, are not veggie for ethical reasons in the first place.
I also don't see the problem for 'proper' vegetarians, just clarify I am a vegetarian and I don't eat fish, it is not like it is difficult to eat veggie most places these days. Anytime I eat out I have to clarify what I do and don't eat (vegan but most people don't know what it means)
DH and DS2 just say ' I don't eat meat, fish is ok and dairy' simply because its too confusing to try to put labels on as people have different understandings of veggie/vegan/pescatarian etc. DH is a long term non meat eater not for cruelty reasons but for economic. years ago he found out that the world could produce enough food to feed everone in it if they did not raise animals on arable land for meat. since then he stopped eating it and both DS's were raised this way until they were old enough to make their own decisions. me and ds1 are carnivors
nothingisasbadasitseems fish is NOT meat
maybe you are the thick one
I am a pescetarian (even spell check doesn't recognise the term!), but will often say I'm a vegetarian because I will be able to eat a vegetarian option but almost certainly won't be able to eat a non-veggie option. I only eat fish because I have become allergic to so many things since turning veggie that I was finding it impossible to eat out or with friends unless I made some concessions for preference over potential anaphylactic shock.
However, I have NEVER come across a restaurant where the vegetarian option is fish, never been offered fish as a vegetarian option unless I have specifically mentioned that I eat fish and never met someone who assumed vegetarians eat fish either. I don't know anyone who is confused about vegetarianism and what it entails as a result of my eating fish and I can only assume that those who complain about the use of the term vegetarian in place of pescetarian are often more concerned about theoretical problems rather than actual ones.
Vegans do not eat any animal products, that is all there is to it. If they eat eggs from hens in their own garden, they are vegetarian, albeit ones with better ethics than most other vegetarians.
Bessie, fish is meat. Meat is the flesh of an animal as food.
'Pescatarian' does not imply anyone eats more fish than they do, but calling yourself a vegetarian when you aren't one is surely presenting a more inaccurate picture?
If you eat fish, and call yourself a vegetarian, you just sound ignorant.
Meat is the flesh of a mammal fish are not mammals
No meat is the flesh of an animal as food. Not just mammals. Chickens aren't mammals but their flesh is classed as meat, no?
i was at wi last night and had a hard time explaining to the catering-as-a-living demonstrator that i couldn't eat the pastry she had made because it contained lard.
"oh i didn't realise you were that strict"
it's LARD the animal had to die to make it - that's not strict that's vegetarian!
Lentil and Bessie, forgive me, but you both sound a bit too tied up in words. Who cares what "meat" truly is? There is no true meaning inscribed by the Lord Of All on a stone tablet. Words mean whatever we/society want them to mean. In some countries, poultry is not considered meat. If you find yourself in one of these places, it is best not to huff and puff about semantics, but simply say what you don't eat.
The UK, thankfully, is definitely not a place like that. There are veggy options on pretty much every menu, although one can get rather sick of veg lasagne and mushroom risotto. Being veggy in the UK is a walk in the park.
The Meat Products Regulations define meat as the flesh of any mammalian or bird species
Bessie, in how many homes have you seen Meat Product Regulations sitting in a magazine rack in the loo? I don't know how far we'd get if we referred to a government code every time we needed to do or say something in our daily lives.
OK then turn it around.
In what way does a fish fit the definition of vegetable?
Jins, er? I am not sure I understand what you are referring to.
I was wondering if Bessie can explain what a fish is seeing as she has demonstrated it is not meat
Aaaa, I get it. I don't think Bessie meant to say that fish is a veg, however. She was just arguing that it's not meat. Not being meat does not make fish a vegetable.
Meat is the flesh of a mammal fish are not mammals <- birds are not mammals so is chicken not meat?
I'm not thick, however it really depends on how you define meat - If you are religious you probably don't believe fish is meat, if however you use a dictionary or a scientific assessment you would class fish as meat...
Technically, fish really is meat:
Animal: 1. A sentient living organism typically capable of voluntary motion and sensation: distinguised from plant. <- This includes fish
Meat: 1. The flesh of animals used as food, esp. the flesh of mammals as opposed to fish or fowl Note that fish is still classed as meat
Really can't believe that in this day and age I'm having tell someone that fish, shock horror, is meat
pictish - if you were offered fish about 5 times in total, you were very lucky.
I have lost count the number of times I've had to clarify what a vegetarian does and doesn't eat.
I've already clocked up one this year, and it's only the 4th January!
Every time I go out, I have to ask what the pastry or the soup is made from and what the roasts were cooked in, whether there is gelatine in the pudding etc.
nothingisasbadasitseems save your patronising comments for when you know what you are talking about. I do not agree with you that fish is meat. Fish is fish. Meat is as defined earlier.
... Fish is a living animal not sure what else you would class it as?... you kill it, sometimes fillet it and then eat it's flesh...
It's meat as defined above
But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree...
nickel, I agree that the problems you face are annoying, but surely they have more to do with a general lack of education of what is or not vegetarian (e.g. many people do not know that not all cheeses are vegetarian) than with the pesky fish-eaters referring to themselves as vegetarians? Gelatine and lard have little to do with fish.
At a course run by my previous employer I made a complaint that the vegetarian sandwiches provided included tuna and prawns and were therefore not vegetarian. The course leader argued that they were vegetarian, she knew this because she was a vegetarian and she ate fish.
I pointed out that I also had colleagues who did not eat certain types of meat or seafood for religious reasons and would normally consider 'vegetarian' options to be ok, but she still couldn't see the problem.
Autumn - i was referring to pictish's post from further up the thread - the fish argument has been going on in the meantime - i was talking about the original point - at the time I posted both my comments I hadn't read the full thread.
I didn't mentrion fish because I wasn't talking about fish.
fish is meat.
The Vegetarian Society defines a vegetarian as someone who eats "neither fish, flesh nor fowl" rather than "...meat " in order to avoid these confusions.
anyway, they do have a lot to do with the definition of a vegetarian - if you eat fish, you're not a veggie, and if you eat gelatine or lard, you are also not a veggie.
they don't just go to the pig "ooh, could you drip a little bit of fat here in this bucket for me?" or to the cow or pig "ooh, can I just have a little scrape of your bones for my jellybaby?"
no, they have to kill the animal to get it - so just like isinglass, if you eat them you're not veggie.
YANBU, you are not a vegetarian if you eat fish.
For the 12 years I was a vegetarian, the immediate question I was always asked was, "Do you eat fish?" I initially thought it was an incredibly stupid question, but considering how much misuse of the word vegetarian I've come across over the years, I can see where the confusion comes from!
For those who use the term vegetarian for ease of use, and therefore diminish it's meaning, can you please instead say to your host:
"I am a pescatarian; I only eat fish."
"I eat fish, but not other types of meat."
I'm always asked every time if I eat fish.
my answer is always "no, I'm a vegetarian".
It makes me grind my teeth that posters are calling (themselves!) and vegetarians "veggies".
Makes us sound like a vegetable.
YANBU. However I am a pescatarian for health reasons and seem to be the constant target of ridicule and abuse from co-workers/family/strangers. I have lost count of the number of times I have been called a hypocrite. Why do people care so much about other people's dietry choices?
Well could always not accept people's kind invitations to eat out/dine with them if it causes you such heart ache?
Um, Sarah would you put up with being called a hypocrite just because you were eating out with someone??
I just want to lighten mood, so I present to you a transcript of Bill Bailey declaring himself a vegetarian (do a YouTube search for it, it's a hoot):
I'm a vegetarian, but I'm not strict. I eat fish.
Well they're nearly fish, aren't they. I mean, they're semi-submerged a lot of the time. They spend a lot of time in the water, they're virtually fish aren't they, really.
And pigs, cow, sheep, anything that lives near water. So, I'm not strict.
I'm sort of like a post-modern vegetarian. I eat meat "ironically".
It makes me grind my teeth that posters are calling (themselves!) and vegetarians "veggies". angry angry Makes us sound like a vegetable.
Fuck sake! A nitpicking pathetic thread with more nitpicking added to it!
For fuck sake get a life!
DP is Pescetarian but is really picky about the fish he eats. He'll only eat ethically sourced fish, and only if it's very fresh indeed.
He calls himself Vegetarian as it's politer than saying "I do eat fish but I probably won't want to eat any fish you are about to offer me!"
Nah, I think "veggie" is qualitatively and aesthetically different from "veg"
aufaniae, I can relate to this! I can't get my own head around my "dietary choices" let along explain them to other people.
i call myself a veggie.
I sympathise with the irate 'proper' vegetarians, but my point is that these labels are meaningless and misunderstood both within the societies they serve and also the wider public.
You are better of simply stating what you want to eat.
Beamur - I am, am I?
... I could continue but it might take some time in a restaurant....
OR I could just say 'I'm vegetarian' and not expect people to think I eat fish or chicken because particularly stupid people claim to be vegetarian and eat fish and/or chicken
No meat/fish stock
No animal derivatives - ie. gelatine, rennet.
(Add/remove as appropriate)
I completely agree that vegetarians do not eat animal flesh, including red meat, poultry and fish. But many people have very complex dietary needs, and is much easier to get food that they can eat by asking for the vegetarian option.
For religious reasons I do not eat red meat/ poultry out. However some fish are permitted. It is much easier to ask for the vegetarian option, than to scrutinise the fish option to see is it is suitable e.g. a salmon dish which is ok could be served with shellfish which is not ok. I prefer to ask for "the vegetarian option" than actually call myself a vegetarian.
Had a funny experience a couple of years ago when I went to a bbq (told the hosts in advance I eat vegetarian food, to be offered salmon. Fortunately I could eat it, but the other actual vegetarian was less impressed (especially as the 2 pasta/ rice salads were filled with meat and fish!)
We had a (very delicious) Chinese Meal at work before Christmas.
It came in Vegetarian/Meat/Chicken/Seafood main dishes with rice and noodles.
One of my work collegues kept putting the prawn dish with the vegetarian dishes. I told him- but I think he was being a pain in the butt deliberately.
I don't think anyone who didn't eat seafood would have accidently eaten one (they were clearly prawns)
But this particular person doesn't drink alcohol by religion. I don't eat dead things by choice.
I would never dream of giving him anything (like a tiramisu for example) with alcohol in it.(Because I would respect someones choices)
Just because someone makes a diet choice rather than follow one by religion doesn't make it less valid
Coming back to this - I used to think it was totally precious & silly, a complete non-issue - yes, I ate fish, but I just called myself vegetarian because it was less wanky than pescetarian etc etc.
& then I spent three days in hospital & the 'vegetarian' lunch option on consecutive days was 1) boil in the bag type cod 2) some sort of cheesy potato-ey splodge & 3) fish fingers.
I ate on days 1 & 3, being a pescetarian & all that, but it did teach me not to be quite so dismissive of proper vegetarians moaning about pescetarians claiming to be One Of Them, if a large hospital could be so ill-informed about diet. If I'd been dh or ds, I'd not have been served a meal I could eat on 2 days out of 3.
<feels like the Strawberry Blonde in Catherine Tate's excellent 'ginger refuge' sketch >
Even GoodHouseKeeping magazine (who should know better) gaffed:
Vegetarian meals with Lea& Perrin sauce (contains anchovies)
and Parmesan (not vegetarian as has rennet)
YANBU this is just a way some people try to make themselves interesting, which they are not and can kiss my carnivore arse.
You can get vegetarian Parmesan from supermarkets. But I agree it is annoying when chefs assume cheese is vegetarian - food is their job ffs, they should know what's in it. And I bet they don't use the vegetarian Parmesan.
I went to Gordon Ramsey's Bread St Kitchen a while ago and there was not 1 vegetarian option on the menu, all had Parmesan in.
And some stupid
cunt woman stuck her nose in at a shitty city farm cafe when I was complaining re the vegetarian option having Parmesan in, telling me I was being excessive to expect no part of a calf's stomach in my food. Obviously I told her to F off but I am not as polite as I should be.
I hate 'vegetarian' cook b
I very rarely tell people IRL that I'm vegetarian. I just do it and I don't need to explain myself.
At school lots of my friends did the very overboard "vegi" thing, "Ooh I hate meat" and telling off complete strangers for buying it. No prizes for guessing that they were the ones who went back to meat eating. (I've been a vegetarian for 32 years)
I get people saying "Oh look bacon. I bet you'd love to eat this juicy steak.
If I wanted to, I would. The only thing stopping me is me.
I haven't brought my DC up as vegetarian (my DH is vegetarian) it's their choice.
Books that use Parmesan. There's always a 'disclaimer', but it's not obvious to all. Therefore, non veggies will cook veggies sumfing with Parmesan or another non vege cheese and THINK THAT'S OK!!!! Because a vegetarian cook book said so. Grrrrrrrrr!
Parmesan has to be from a specific area of Italy - otherwise it's Italian Hard Cheese.And proper Parmesan is made with rennet.
Tesco used to do one.
Sainsburys Basic is vegetarian (but pretty bland)
I got some in Waitrose before Christmas though that was nice.
70s [gein] at the people who feel sorry for us!/try and be smug about their meat eating shenanigans. And, what?
I'm not kissing your carnivore arse unless you're actually a ninja fish.
It's not interesting unless your life seriously lacks interest! Just tiresome if you can't eat food served to you in good faith because the person dishing it up thinks vegetarians eat fish/chicken/wafer thin ham/ rennet, & equally an embarrassment/PITA for them if they've cooked for you.
I must admit I generally assume that if I invite people to eat I'll say 'it'll be vegetarian, anything you can't eat or don't like?' & it's up to them to let me know if they happen to be a coeliac vegan with a severe nut allergy, at which point I'll do my best...
Equally if someone invites us I'd always let them know we don't eat meat. I really don't want someone slaving over their speciality boeuf whatever & then have us turn up & not eat it.
Just basic manners rather than trying to be interesting IMO.
My MIL (who doesn't really embrace my DH vegetarian ways- and blames me for corrupting her little boy)
gave him soup with great big lumps of chicken in it (and chicken stock) and said he could "just leave the chicken"
and gave us Pepperoni pizza "Oh I thought Pepperoni was like peppers"
Errrrm, no it's not
Oh I see the Parmesan issue is covered already.
Does not bring up the wafer thin ham joke.
I'm a pescetarian, but I will sometimes refer to myself as a vegetarian. It's almost always in catering contexts, where saying that you are a pescetarian will
- meet with looks of confusion
- require an explanation of what being a pescetarian is
- result in being given the veggie option anyway
I'm quite well aware that I am not a vegetarian, but sometimes explaining is just more hassle than it's worth.
I like vegetarians who eat fish. They are easier to cater for whatever they choose to call themselves.
My SIL claims to be vegetarian but will eat bacon on Sundays. I prefer to save my ire for her.
I'm quite well aware that I am not a vegetarian, but sometimes explaining is just more hassle than it's worth.
Absolutely. You carry on as you are, and take no heed of the self important drivel on this thread.
I used to call myself a veggie as I used to be one. I now eat fish and some chicken so I now simply say that I don't eat red meat as this is more honest as my reasons now are more to do with a dislike of these foods than a total animal welfare stance. I thi k people use the term vegetarian as one of convenience in some cases so they don't have to explain the ins and puts of what they do and don't eat. I can see though that it could be irritating to those who have firmly held beliefs about being a vegan or vegetarian.
Gordon Ramsey doesn't like vegetarians.
he thinks we're lacking something mentally.
he once gave vegetarians meat pizza wile pretending it was veggie and then went around laughing at them because he'd forced them to eat meat and they hadn't complained.
if he'd done that to me, i would have ripped him a new one.
I also know people who are veggie because meat makes them physically ill - their systems can't take it, and he could have hospitalized one of them.
*he once gave vegetarians meat pizza wile pretending it was veggie and then went around laughing at them because he'd forced them to eat meat and they hadn't complained.
if he'd done that to me, i would have ripped him a new one*
As much as I think this thread is daft and inneccessary - I think THAT is absolutely BANG out of order.
Gordon Ramsay is a psychopathic dickhead. What a wanker. Chefs are notorious for not liking vegetarians, but IMO a chef who cannot cater for a vegetarian has a real lack of imagination and actually ime some of the more truly talented chefs I have worked with have had no problem at all catering for vegetarians and actually quite enjoy the challenge of catering for different dietary requirements. Hfw recently did some progs on veggie food for instance.
Beings chef who can't/won't make veggie food is like being an interior designer who decorates everyone's house the same regardless of it's age/size, or like a fashion designer who only designs clothes for skinny models. Lacking in imagination.
he's always going on about hating them.
he pulls faces ans swears about it.
and he said on bbc breakfast at christmas that vegetarians are banned from his house.
You're right OP but I don't get annoyed about it.
On Come Dine With Me this week they fed a veggie "jellied tomato soup" with gelatine in it- I just think, people don't know when they're eating meat and when they're not. I had to push for veggie-friendly ADs and we did find them, but my veggie friend who was taking the same still had to take the gelatine pill version. Not brilliant.
Lol at people being annoyed at "veggie" guess it's just one of those things you get irrationally ticked off at....like some people don't like "uni" etc/...
I'm a pescatarian who was 100% vegetarian from birth- age 26, then decided to try fish. I only really like it if it's extremely fresh ie when I'm at the seaside or in a v good restaurant. I tend to save my fish eating for occasions when I'm in a stupid French restaurant that doesn't have a veggie menu or when the veggie option is cheese on cheese with melted cheese... So mostly I tell people I'm veggie. Oh and I have cod liver oil capsules every day. I can't say pescatarian because there are many fish I would hate to eat. Just very occasional wild salmon or white fish for me
I stayed at a Hotel du Vin in December. I had indicated when booking that I was a vegetarian and was disapointed when the vegetarian starter was "off" and complained that the egg salad replacement was not exactly suitable for a special meal out. I was met with the riposte that there was plenty of fish on the menu I could have chosen from. We stayed in a lovely hotel for my birthday a few years back that advertise they no longer cater for vegetarians as apparently they used to go to extrememe lengths to mmake lovely food for them only to have them turn up and chose fish or chicken instead.
Well that hotel advertising that it no longer caters for vegetarians since they had presumably a few incidents of vegetarians turning up and then choosing fish or chicken dishes sounds rather haughty and unhelpful to me higgle
Do they not get other diners changing their minds from one dish to another upon perusal of the menu ?!
This irritates me quite a lot too. I am a vegetarian, so naturally I don't eat meat or fish, and happen to be highly allergic to fish. It worries me sometimes that so called vegetarian meals can contain fish or a fish sauce.
I am equally annoyed by people whose response to me being vegetarian is 'ooh yes, I don't eat much meat either, only a bit of chicken, steak sometimes if I'm out, and of course bacon sandwiches don't count, do they?!'
Another thought ... society in general and the catering industry in particular should be able to handle the fact that many vegetarians are strict vegetarians, and some people are vegan. They should understand these terms (especially the restaurants etc) In a similar way they should know and understand the dietary requirements and preferences of different religious and cultural groups.
Then there is a spectrum of other dietary preferences/ requirements ranging from pescatarians to people who are mainly veggie but not strictly so, those that don't eat red meat etc. etc.
In other words people generally need to get their heads round the fact that some people have strict dietary requirements and other people are more flexible.
Neither is "right" or "wrong" BTW (IMHO) !
The catering industry should be experts on all of this, that's where the problem lies IME
From the vegetarian society website:
"There are different types of vegetarian:
Lacto-ovo-vegetarians eat both dairy products and eggs; this is the most common type of vegetarian diet.
Lacto-vegetarians eat dairy products but avoid eggs.
Vegans do not eat dairy products, eggs, or any other products which are derived from animals."
So does that mean that all vegetarians always identify their ovo/lacto status? So long as people can eat what they choose and avoid foods that they feel strongly about not eating, then does it really matter what terminology is used? So long as everyone can convey their preferences even if they are variations on a theme of the foods they eat/avoid then all is well with the world?
Unfortunately this does have real ramifications for vegetarians.
I was just in hospital for nearly 3 weeks. My doctor told me I was malnourished and needed to eat more (had pneumonia, was dreadfully ill) but on several occasions I was offered fish as the vegetarian option. The lady serving said to me 'most vegetarians we have here eat fish, why don't you?' and then laughed at me when I said I ate dairy 'well you can't be a real vegetarian then'
I did try and educate her and she was fairly nice about it in the end (the dietician ordered some special meals for me) but it was the whole thing of having to go through this when I was so very ill, and so tired, and just couldn't be arsed. Several times in my recovery I didn't have a meal. And yes, I do put this down to people who eat fish calling themselves vegetarians.
Most restaurants are OK. I've had one instance of being served fish soup <boak> in a super posh hotel but mostly veggie options are suitable. I always get that same question though when I tell people - 'do you eat fish' and answer the same as nickel - 'no, I am a vegetarian.'
It can be very wearing.
higgle I stayed at a Hotel du Vin in December. I had indicated when booking that I was a vegetarian and was disapointed when the vegetarian starter was "off" and complained that the egg salad replacement was not exactly suitable for a special meal out. I was met with the riposte that there was plenty of fish on the menu I could have chosen from.
I believe Hotel du Vin is in receivership so it may not be up to scratch.
I'm with the "veggie" is akin to "uni" gang. Cringe.... And I'll also add "roasties" - double cringe.
I'm afraid I'm going to make the sweeping generalisation that I can find pseudo-vegetarians quite rude. I think the issue is often that they are just fussy or have small appetites, and try to cover it up by sounding worthy. I had some people round and the wife and dds were "vegetarians". I produced a Delia Smith vegetarian moussaka which if I say so myself turns out very well and a fish pie. After much teenage eye-rolling and general miserable faces they settled for chicken nuggets. Grrrrr.
I don't think they were necessarily pseudo-vegetarians (I respect people who eat meat infrequently and only free range much more than just normal meat eaters if there must be a scale; if they call themselves vegetarians, it's not my problem), they were just rude, Letty!
Thanks for that bit of info PP - they probably couldn't afford to buy in the beetroot I was looking forward to!
When I was in hospital after giving birth, I had very low iron. None of the veggie options most days had any iron in at all
does it matter op?
yes its a pain when explaining that you don't eat fish but think youre being bit ott!
i'm vegetarian no fish
ds1 is a meat eater
dd is vegetarian but eats fish
ds2 is vegetarian and does not eat fish.
but we really piss you off!
Cheesesarnie your dd is not vegetarian because she eats fish. Full stop.
Vegetarians don't eat fish. Simple.
Why is it that some people fail to grasp the fact the a Vegetarian does not under any circumstance eat fish or any other type of meat?
Judging from some of the comments here it would appear that:
a - pescetarians can't be bothered to find out what they are so just say vegetarian
b - They don't want the hassle of explaining their dietary needs but are more than happy to cause confusion/pass extra hassle to actual vegetarians
c - Assume that anyone in catering is less intelligent and therefore unable to understand what a pescetarian is, so again claim to be vegetarians....
d - Actually believe that fish is not an animal and therefore not meat
Why not just say 'I eat fish but not other types of meat' surely that would be easier than saying 'oh, I'm a vegetarian so I'm going to have the fish'
We went to a nice restaurant tonight and one of the customers loudly proclaimed to be vegetarian in front of the waitress.... When the time came to order the customer ordered fish - Queue the waitress saying 'so you're not a vegetarian then' which caused a lot of huffing and puffing from the 'vegetarian'
You mean cue the waitress...
Pescetarian is a stupid word that wankers use. It was made up recently to give a name to a way of eating that does not include meat but does include fish. What I imagine usually happens is this:
Person A: what can I eat off the menu? I don't eat meat
Person B: are you a vegetarian?
Person A: no, I don't eat meat. I'm a pescetarian.
Person B: what's that?
Person A: it's someone who eats fish but doesn't eat meat
Person B: so are you a vegetarian?
Person A: no, I eat fish but I don't eat meat. Actually, this is too annoying, don't worry, I will just eat bread
<everyone feels uncomfortable>
Even if Person A does want to eat, Person B is then less bothered about finding out about or preparing dishes that don't contain animals because person A is not a vegetarian.
Ffs I can call myself empress of the world if I like, what's it got to do with anyone else? What do you care what someone's reasons are for calling themselves vegetarian? And if you are worried it makes things more 'difficult' for 'real' vegetarians, I think you should count yourselves lucky you haven't got anything better to worry about.
Of course people know what pescatorian means.
I had dinner with a vegetarian. She whinged loudly about the lack of choice 'we' have and how hard it is to eat out (I've beem veggie for over 25 years and managed fine mainly). She then chose the fish starter with lamb for main. I didn't even bother to ask on which planet fish and lamb were vegetables.
Or, Bessie, it could go:
Person A: what can I eat off the menu? I don't eat RED meat
Person B: are you a vegetarian?
Person A: no, I don't eat RED meat. I'm a pescetarian.
Person B: what's that?
Person A: it's someone who eats fish but doesn't eat RED meat. Of course, fish is still meat, but I am a wanker who distinguishes flesh as food based on whether it walked, swam or flew.
Person B: ah! Thank you for enlightening me. I am glad I won't be a dumbass for the rest of my life.
Person A: Great, glad to be of service. Now fetch me my dead fish.
everyone feels uncomfortable person B feels informed>
Please read NothingIsAsBad's wonderful post previous to yours, with a bit of an open mind, yes? I promise you your brains won't fall out.
My mam doesn't eat meat, but she does eat fish. She stopped eating meat 35 years ago when pregnant with me, as the smell made her feel ill.
She doesn't describe herself as anything in particular, other than saying "I don't eat meat". Which isn't hard to cater for, nor is she being awkward. She just can't eat meat.
Actually Bessie, it usually goes like this:
Vegetarian: 'what's vegetarian please?'
Food Server: 'well, chicken korma...'
Vegetarian: 'no, sorry, I'm vegetarian; I don't eat meat'
Food Server: 'oh. Fish and chips or tuna pasta bake...'
Vegetarian: <frustrated> 'no! I don't eat meat. Or fish. I'm a VEGETARIAN'
Food Server: <stroppy> 'jacket potato?'
Yep. I do have a whole world of bigger things to worry about. Sometimes I just sweat the small stuff.
XPosts. And since I've corrected you, I won't tell you off for being sniffy about the cue/queue conundrum.
lentil what the hell are you talking about? Why do you think chicken and turkey are fish?
Meat is the flesh of mammal and/or bird, fish is fish.
I'm going to bed now. But in case anyone is not whipped into a froth of righteous indignation over something completely insignificant, I know plenty of people who eat fish but not meat and not one of them describes themselves as a vegetarian or a pescetarian. Although I wouldn't give a shit if they did.
In fact, I think those of you vegetarians who buy leather shoes and bags are far more worthy of scorn
My mam doesn't describe herself as vegetarian, she just happens to hate meat. But she will quite happily chose from a vegetarian menu.
Night Bessie. Glad to know you're less concerned about how your friends' identify their food choices, as you are about a load of Internet sprites. Sleep tight.
It's interesting that lots of people seem to be getting very worked up about telling me that it isn't worth getting worked up about.... Not that I do get that bothered! Peeved on occasion is really the extent of it.
And I will remember to say that I'm a lacto-ovo vegetarian next time I'm asked :-)
I have a solution!
If people describe themselves as lacto-Ovo-vegetarians
Fish eaters could describe themselves as lacto-Ovo-pesce-vegetarians.
Which means they eat eggs dairy fish and veg.
And it sounds like pesky vegetarians, which is how a lot of people regard them anyway!
I only get irritated when a veggie makes a whole song anmd dance/scene about food in a restautant, then orders fish or chicken! I've always managed fine and never felt the need to kick off if there isnt much choice. In fact, I get dizzy if there are more than two veggie options on a menu! I lived on cheese salads in the 80s.
I don't really care what other people choose to label themselves as but as a vegetarian (who doesn't eat fish) I was annoyed when I went out for a meal and ordered the vegetarian platter to find it was potato wedges, onion rings, fish goujons, king prawns and crab sticks
ImKate - what happened next? (I'm assuming you told them!)
Thats because there are people who arent proper veggie and make a big deal of being veggie order fish/chicken! Most real veggies just order their meal and get on with it! I had a meal with one 'veggie' and we ordered our food. She's made such a fuss about the lack of choice and complained about the menu to the waiter. The first course came and it was pretty awful. Again she complained and the waiter offered her something else. Yup, she ordered the fish.
But seriously, onion rings and crabsticks? Yuk.
You mean cue the waitress...
...I'm mildly dyslexic so of course some words may be wrong...
But if I'm going to label myself as something at least I make the effort to use the correct label, and not masquerade as something I'm quite clearly not.
Meat is the flesh of mammal and/or bird, fish is fish.
Fish are generally cold blooded (though some sharks are not cold blooded) animals that live in water = meat
Crocodiles are reptiles (so also classed as animals) that can live in water and on land = meat or do you also refuse to class that as meat since they aren't birds or mammals? And if so what do you class it as, as it aint fish
13 I'm really embarrassed about the way I handled it tbh! It was a lovely gastro pub out in the countryside and I didn't want to make a big fuss as we were with dh's boss who had insisted on paying. The "vegetarian" platter was literally the only veggie thing on the menu which is why I ordered it. I went to the bar and told them my vegetarian meal was not vegetarian and the waitress spoke to the chef who offered to make me omelette and chips instead. As everyone else had nearly finished their meal I declined (far too politely ). I just ate my onion rings and potato wedges and told the others I wasn't very hungry. I honestly don't know if they charged dh's boss for my meal but dh had a few crabsticks so it wasn't all wasted! Sometimes I could kick myself for my "don't make a fuss" politeness!
Politeness and not making a fuss is underdone too much these days! I loathe professional stink-kickers and prefer to pick my battles. Im sure the waitress was relieved that you didnt cause a fuss and was nice about it. Besides, I hear they spit in your food if you complain!
I never understood how some "vegetarians" were very concerned about battery chickens and yet were fine with trawled fish and the associated bycatch of seals, sharks, dolphins etc.
I can honestly say I have never seen such a ridiculous and pedantic load of nonsense on here.
The vast majority of people with common sense are capable of distinguishing meat and fish as being two separate classifications of food. Hence why on a menu they are generally in different sections. Vegetables are not fish, or meat.
There are lots of people who do not eat meat but eat fish. Clearly they are not vegetarians but it really is quite simple to understand what they mean.
There are lots of people who dont eat red meat but will eat white, and again that is also very simple to understand. They dont eat beef or lamb, but they will eat chicken.
in lots of cuisines, fish, chicken and meat dishes are separate too. i would still classify chicken as meat even thought it's on a separate menu.
Is it too late to point out that the term 'vegetarian' isn't derived from the word vegetable...?
Eaxctly. It's derived from the Latin for 'person or animal who doesnt eat anything that has been killed'.
(Made that up)
I am not vegetarian. I don't like meat so I do not eat it and haven't for years. I do like fish so I do eat it. I don't describe myself as vegetarian on most occasions. However if going out for a meal it is sometimes easier to do so to avoid being given meat. So for me it will sometimes depend on the situation.
Bear in mind too that in most menu options there is no box for me to tick to say pescetarian.
and to be honest whenever I have used the words people often just look at you confused or roll their eyes as if you are being a bit pedantic.
But like others I can't really get worked up over such matters.
Do you ever see dishes containing fish on a restaurant menu with a v symbol next to them?
No you don't since fish is not eaten by vegetarians. Really don't see why this is so hard for 'fake vegetarians' to accept. I try to avoid getting worked up over it but how many times should a vegetarian have to say 'No thank you I don't eat fish
since that is meat and I don't eat meat hence being a vegetarian '?
When I was in primary school I went on a school trip (4 nights away from home). On three of those nights I went hungry since the vegetarian option was fish with some form of sauce containing fish stock covering everything. My parents had very clearly stated that I was a vegetarian on the dietary requirements section of the consent form. I told my teachers that I couldn't eat the food since I was a vegetarian only to be told that fish was suitable for vegetarians and that nothing else was available so I should eat around the fish... I never went on another over night school trip in that school.
A vegetarian 'in a dietary sense' is defined in the dictionary as a person who does not eat meat including fish and fowl as well as red meat...
I've seen dishes with prawns or fish stock with little Vs next to them. They've been in Chinese restaurants, so I think the got confused between Vegetable and Vegetarian dishes.
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