To return our cat to the rescue home we got her from?

(217 Posts)
DreamingofFour Thu 03-Jan-13 08:56:37

Our 10 year old cat has always been shy and twitchy, which we put down to a hard life before we got her from the Cat Rescue Home 3 years ago. But since we moved house six months ago she has become a bit of a nightmare. She keeps weeing & pooing all over the new house, and despite our best efforts (putting out cat lit if she wants it, helping her thru cat flap etc) she seems to be getting worse. Now she is really jumpy and even more shy. We have taken her to the vet, who said there was nothing physically wrong but wondered if it was psychological and should she have Prozac. At the same time we are dealing with our youngest waking up every night, all the kids sick, work etc etc so we don't have the capacity to be cleaning up the sofa from cat wee/poo every day.(The latest spot she chose). Given that she isn't very happy, would it be ok to return her to the cat rescue home where I suspect she would be happier?
Anyone else been in this situation?

Thanks for your help

gimmecakeandcandy Thu 03-Jan-13 08:59:50

I doubt your cat would be happier going back there hmm

It is for you that you want to take her back!

I think it would be cruel to. Who would take her on there? Poor cat sad

RedHelenB Thu 03-Jan-13 09:00:06

I doubt she would be happier in a rescue home tbh. Could you restrict what rooms she has access to?

sparkle101 Thu 03-Jan-13 09:04:07

Have you tried feliway at all? It's comes as a spray or a diffuser which you plug in and it replicates the happy hormones that cats release when they are in a place they feel safe. Marking and pooing are signs of not being happy and so you need to take away that thought. The diffuser is best used In one room where you can leave the cat and takes a few days to kick in. They are not inexpensive but customers I have rave about them and its worth a try before you have to take drastic action?

cozietoesie Thu 03-Jan-13 09:04:47

Might be a good idea to ask MNHQ to transfer this to the Litter Tray, Dreaming. Lots of people there who can give advice on your problem.

the litter tray

smile

DreamingofFour Thu 03-Jan-13 09:09:26

Thanks for the tip, I have, Cozie, Thanks for the Feliway suggestion too Sparkle!

hiddenhome Thu 03-Jan-13 09:09:45

Try Feliway. It's stopped my two from stressing out and randomly pooing/weeing.

FlojoHoHoHo Thu 03-Jan-13 09:09:55

YABU
When your kids start doing things you rather they won't are you going to send them away too?
Like others have said, choose a small room in your house, take everything away so she can't poo on it and put litter tray in there and diffuser etc and spend quiet time in there with her and let her sleep in there at nights and the rest of the time send her out to play.

GrumpySod Thu 03-Jan-13 09:15:19

You are brave to ask in AIBU. If you take on a pet you are supposed to prioritise it over everything else in your life, didn't you know that? It's like a life bond, sucking your very blood & spirt out of you to your very last breath. You are a cruel wicked person to ever think anything else (all meant ironically, I hope you realise).

When I took my cats from Rescue I told the Rescue the only reasons which I thought would make me send them back and Rescue was fine about them; they were real people. They didn't expect me to be a Saint.

If I were you I would contact the rescue & talk about the difficulties you're having; most rescues will want to try to work with you to help you find a solution, or at least they will understand the issues better if they do take the animal in, again.

Good Luck.

RudolphiaRedNose Thu 03-Jan-13 09:17:14

We had a cat like this, we were always on the verge of returning her as she was such hard work, but couldn't bring ourselves to because we loved her. She died a couple of years ago when was hit by a car and we comforted ourselves that at least we hadn't "rejected" her! Sorry that's not much help - I know the weeing and pooing is horrible. Ours did not like feliway but was slightly helped by cat antidepressants! We would just keep her out of as many rooms as possible (though we did let her sleep on our bed which she loved) and I put those pampers bedwetting mats over sofas etc., covered by washable throws, to catch wees.

Having said all that, if it gets too much you can take her back - there's only so much you can take. There are also people who specialise in taking difficult cats into their homes to care for them, and the cat rescue place might know of some of them.

AngelsWithSilverWings Thu 03-Jan-13 09:21:15

Definitely try Feliway.

Has the situation got worse over the Christmas period? My friends cat was weeing every where when the Xmas decs went up but the Feliway stopped it immediately.

I would also suggest Urine Off for cleaning up with. It gets rid of the smell and also discourages further soiling.

HDee Thu 03-Jan-13 09:23:45

I'd have got rid of it ages ago. There is no way I am cleaning up piss and shit from an animal on a regular basis, especially not off my furniture and carpets.

Anyone who compares pets and children are idiots.

msrisotto Thu 03-Jan-13 09:26:28

6 months? You haven't given her much time to settle and haven't done much research before jumping to rehoming. Nice.

Try reading Vicky Halls.

RudolphiaRedNose Thu 03-Jan-13 09:31:43

OP please ignore the emotive posts trying to make you feel guilty. There is a reason cat rescue places exist and they would ultimately rather have a cat there than have the cat driving someone insane. It is up to you to decide how much you can handle and that depends on your own circumstances, how busy you are, ages of your DC and all that. You are not chucking her in a canal in a sack or leaving her in a wheelie bin, you're considering rehoming a difficult cat - it's not a crime.

CrackerJackShack Thu 03-Jan-13 09:38:36

Have you spoken to a vet? My parents cat started doing this at around 10 and it turned out he had a brain tumor, so they have to put him down.

Muminwestlondon Thu 03-Jan-13 09:46:43

If she was OK until you all moved house I would tend to think it was psychological. If you can afford it, go back to the vet and ask if they can suggest something - maybe an animal psychologist or something to teach you how to help her. If you can't afford it maybe ring up the rescue centre, perhaps they have some strategies or suggestions that might help.

My flatmate years ago adopted a cat from a rescue who used to do that continually but it seemed happy otherwise. She didn't seem to mind cleaning up the mess - she was a human nurse, maybe she was used to it! She and the cat eventually moved when she got married - I had to throw all the carpets and sofa away - cost a fortune.

Paiviaso Thu 03-Jan-13 10:29:17

I think YABU to take her back to the shelter after you've had her three years. You are her family now. I am of the belief that when you take on a pet, you take them on through bad as well as good. If you aren't prepared to tackle problems your pet may have, you should not take on a pet.

I have been in a similar situation as you. When I first brought my two cats home, they did not wee and poo in their litterboxes, probably due to the stress of being rehomed. It was extremely frustrating to deal with, and made it hard to bond with them. I did quite a lot of research though, and managed to stop the behaviour by keeping them in small area of the house where there was nothing tempting to wee on for several weeks until they retrained on the litterbox. I also rewarded them everytime I saw them go in the box. Now we have no problems.

Your cat sounds like she was very stressed by the move. Perhaps the stressor and the resulting behavioural issues were not dealt with well, and she is kind of locked into her new behaviour.

I think some research would help you out - besides the books recommended already, I would recommend asking for advice on a cat forum like Petforums. Describe your situation in detail and you hopefully will get some good suggestions. There are also a lot of posts about weeing inappropriately on this forum, which you could have a browse through.

In the meantime you need to manage the situation so you aren't so stressed yourself. Can you keep the cat in a limited area of the house? Perhaps the kitchen or somewhere where there is nothing soft or tempting to wee on like carpet or sofas (and if she does wee it will be easy to clean up?) You can put a feliway plug in the room, and you could also try Zylkene, I don't know if your vet mentioned it? It is a natural supplement meant to reduce stress. If you do need to protect furniture you can buy water-proof picnic blankets - the cat may pee on them but it wont go through the backing. You could also use cheap shower curtains to protect furniture from wee.

You could also call a cat behaviourist if you have the funds, I assume their job is to come in and figure out what the source of the behavioural problem is fast, which you would find helpful!

Good luck.

RudolphiaRedNose Thu 03-Jan-13 10:38:39

btw we had a cat shrink in at one point and she was absolutely rubbish. her advice was to block the windows so our cat wouldn't be stressed by seeing other cats outside. pretty pointless as she was an outdoor cat, and we would have been living in the dark! I was also shocked that she took no interest in our beautiful puss at all, did not look at her or pet her - she just talked to us so might have well have done it by phone, and she cost £90!

If you get one, get recommendations and chat on the phone first about how they intend to help. And i agree with others I'd consult the vet as a first step.

KellyEllyChristmasBelly Thu 03-Jan-13 11:24:42

I'd advise you in the future to get a kitten that you can house train not an older animal from a shelter who needs that extra bit of care and understanding. I know people do this to help animals but if the poor animal ends up back in the shelter it's a bit counter productive all round really isn't it. My cats scratch my furniture, vomit, occasionally poo but they are 15 years old and I just deal with it. It's part and parcel of having an animal - especially and older/rehomed one.

Crinkle77 Thu 03-Jan-13 11:31:39

YABU. I hate the way people take on an animal and then when it does not fit in to their lives get rid of it. The cat would not be happier going back to the home. In fact it would probably make her even more distressed. I doubt they would be able to rehome a 10 year old cat with health problems and it may lead her to being put down

Booboostoo Thu 03-Jan-13 11:35:43

Ditto the Feliway and also worth trying different types of cat litter and a litter tray that is covered.

CajaDeLaMemoria Thu 03-Jan-13 11:41:28

I couldn't take her back. Cat rescues are so full at the moment...there was a record number of kittens again this year, and while some were adopted while being cute and tiny, it meant there are plenty of older cats and the kittens that weren't adopted have a smaller chance now too.

If she's that difficult, she'll simply never get adopted. Depending on the rescue, that will either mean she stays in a small cage for the rest of her life, or that she is put to sleep.

It sucks when your children and animals clash, but it won't happen forever. If the vet suggested prozac, did you start it? That could help a lot. Feliway should also be used, they recommend using it from the day you move to help your cat settle. If she was already skittish, she was going to find such a big change stressful.

I'd start with those. Feliway now, because you can buy it easily, and prozac as soon as you can. Put her litter tray somewhere that she likes (does she huddle anywhere? Prefer any particular rooms?) and give a covered litter tray a try if she likes being inside things. It might be hassle to clean out but it's better than her pooing on your sofas!

If the issue doesn't stop quickly once she's got meds, take her back for another check. It is highly likely this is psychological, and just caused by the move, but there can be other causes such as a brain tumour that cause an increase in skittish behaviour along with toileting problems.

PessaryPam Thu 03-Jan-13 12:07:24

Well I am going to be a hate figure here. Here goes. The cat is old, its incontinent and unhappy. I would have it PTS. Has hard hat ready.

RedHelenB Thu 03-Jan-13 12:09:26

10 years isn't old - mine is still going strong at almost 19 years!!!

PessaryPam Thu 03-Jan-13 12:10:25

And biscuit to all those who think it's acceptable to inflict feline shit and urine on small children in their own home.

EuroShagmore Thu 03-Jan-13 12:10:41

10 is not old for a cat! Ours lived to over 20!

Is there something stressing it out, OP?

PessaryPam Thu 03-Jan-13 12:16:23

From Wiki, that font of all knowledge
The average life expectancy for male indoor cats at birth is around 12 to 14 years, with females usually living a year or two longer.

So the cat is 10 and is maybe 4 years off natural death. Cat also seems unhappy. It's not a great situation but it would probably be best for all to have the cat PTS. Or maybe some of the posters here would take the cat?

PippinWoo Thu 03-Jan-13 12:24:53

I had a very nervous cat, adopted as a kitten along with her brother so it was just her personality that made her so jittery and no previous trauma.

When I broke up with my ex, I got rid of his massive fish tank in our lounge and moved the furniture around. This change really distressed my cat and she started doing things like pissing on my bed. I should imagine if I'd moved house she'd be a bit like your cat! When cats are distressed, they kind of make a protest by pissing on the places that will hurt you the most. For me, it was the bed. She associated that with a place I spent a lot of time and thought it would get my attention. For you, it could be the sofa as well. If it's just in the corner / behind things, that could more indicate just a need to go to the loo and having nowhere safe to go (in their mind).

There could be other cats in the neighbourhood that are frightening to her and so she is scared to go outside to use the loo. Some cat books also say that if there are cats in the neighbourhood that scare her, they might even be frightened in their own home in case they come in through the cat flap. Even if the cat flap is a locking one, the cat doesn't necessarily know that.

Perhaps keep her in for a while, with cat flap blocked up. If she can't get in and out, she'll realise another cat won't be coming in. Put a litter tray in every room she goes in (so maybe reduce the number of rooms she has access to). That doesn't need to be permanent but you could see if that might help calm her down whilst she gets used to your new house.

ComposHat Thu 03-Jan-13 12:28:57

What Pippin said.

atacareercrossroads Thu 03-Jan-13 12:32:11

Yabu 10years is nothing despite what wiki-kitty.com says. And 6 months to settle isn't very long. Defo try feliway.

msrisotto Thu 03-Jan-13 12:41:26

No, it's not about pissing in the place that will hurt you the most. Seriously, buy that Vicky Halls book.

Pissing on the bed is about mixing your scent with their scent as the cat feels insecure in their territory and feels the need to mark it to feel safe.

Pissing by doors is again because they feel unsafe in their territory and doors are where potentially scary things come in.

Feces is an even stronger scent than urine so if they are very insecure they may do both. Blah blah blah there are loads of reasons, do some research.

LouisWalshsChristmasCloset Thu 03-Jan-13 12:50:44

flo you really comparing a cat to a child hmm anyone who treats their animals like childrens is a fruitcake.
i wouldnt have the patience for cat shit tbh.that stuff fooking stinks so i wouldnt think twice about taking her back but im not a cat lover.

Please lets not get into comparing children and beloved pets, it never ends well.

PippinWoo Thu 03-Jan-13 12:58:01

Sorry I just realised I might have given the impression your cat was trying to hurt you on purpose. It just used to frustrate me so much it felt a bit like that. I wanted to scream "why are you doing this?!!".

She doesn't mean to be trouble on purpose or be naughty. She's just distressed and you want to try and make the house as calm and safe feeling as possible.

SparklingSnow Thu 03-Jan-13 12:59:41

YABVU. The poor cat. She's probably just feeling unsettled due to the move.

People really need to think properly before they get a pet. Imagine how your poor cat would feel if she was rejected again.

Of course there's a risk of cats doing the toilet inside the house. Same as there is a risk of them being sick.

Surely that must have occurred to you before you took her in?

PippinWoo Thu 03-Jan-13 13:02:36

Oh and my cat did calm down in the end and got back to normal. It took a while for her to relax again but we did get there and she got back to a normal routine. I wouldn't give up yet until you've tried a few of the different theories people have written about.

curiousuze Thu 03-Jan-13 13:03:48

YANBU - our cat is identical to this. She has recently been leaving little runny presents of her own under the Christmas tree, she drives me absolutely fucking nuts. She's 10 times more mess and hassle than our newborn. I'd feel too guilty to give her away but I do keep hoping she moves out of her own accord, especially when I step in a cold, wet cat spew in the middle of the night.

I don't think YABU to consider taking her back. I'd like to think that you would do as much research and look for advice from as many places as possible before taking that step. I would speak to the vet again, maybe try a different one and also speak to the home where you got her. They will have lots of experience dealing with similar situations. It may well be that with medication or treatment she can be made happier and easier to cope with in your home, but if this is not the case then dont feel guilt tripped into keeping a cat that you don't want/ cannot cope with. She may also be seriously ill and then the kindest thing may be to put her to sleep.

dequoisagitil Thu 03-Jan-13 13:07:35

Talk to the Rescue about the problems you're having and try Feliway and whatever they advise to settle it again. Your cat is probably just stressed out and will get used to the change in time.

Northernlebkuchen Thu 03-Jan-13 13:09:17

Your cat is distressed and there are lost of thing you can try to help with that. Please put some work in to trying to make her more secure in your home. Cats are really complex creatures. That's what I love about them grin

fuzzypicklehead Thu 03-Jan-13 13:23:35

OP, would you be happy to have your cat put to sleep? I don't ask to make you feel bad, but you should probably know that it's probably what will happen to her if you return her to the rescue.

There are way more cats out there than there are homes for them all, and lots of people who don't bother to neuter, so the numbers are constantly increasing. With so many free, cute kittens available on gumtree and preloved, a 10 year old mog with housetraining issues doesn't have a chance at getting a new home. Rescue centres can't afford to feed and care for every old incontinent cat that gets chucked out, and so putting them to sleep is the only solution. It's sad, but it's the truth.

SparklingSnow Thu 03-Jan-13 13:33:44

fuzzypicklehead, your post is very true. Sadly this is happening all the time to unwanted and unloved animals.

It sounds like the OP is just thinking of her cat as an inconvenience.

HDee Thu 03-Jan-13 13:42:31

The cat is an inconvenience. It's pissing and shitting wherever it pleases, it's skittish and shy, refuses to use a cat flap or litter tray...how can any owner get pleasure out of that?

I'd probably take it to be PTS. Actually if it was mine, I'd have evicted it long ago.

fuzzypicklehead Thu 03-Jan-13 13:45:49

Perhaps, but lots of people have also been brought up with the media portrayal of the RSPCA and Pet Rescue, so they imagine a benevolent Rolf Harris will be waiting to sweep in and comfort their pet. They don't realize that only the few and fortunate make it through the rehoming process.

fuzzypicklehead Thu 03-Jan-13 13:58:10

TBH, OP, in reality your question should really be "AIBU to have my cat put to sleep?"

Otherwise, you're passing the problem on to the rescue and costing money that it can ill afford to either maintain the cat (if it's a no-kill rescue) or have it put down themselves.

Again, I'm not trying to make you feel bad (and I know that cat wee is an awful stink to be dealing with) but it's important to know what you're actually deciding.

oldpeculiar Thu 03-Jan-13 13:58:55

You need to get rid.You cannot have your children living in a house with animal faeces and urine.

PessaryPam Thu 03-Jan-13 14:03:05

I notice that not one of the people who are in the 'how could you be so cruel camp' have offered it a home themselves.

gordyslovesheep Thu 03-Jan-13 14:06:06

oh yes Pam that's practical <giant eye roll>

Pets require work and commitment sometimes - when we moved both our cats had trouble adjusting - one went bald and both had continence issues (mainly in the downstairs loo for some reason)

Bleach and disinfectant means you don't need to put your children in bio hazard suits - Feliway solved the problem within 4 weeks

Bored today are we Pam? OP, Invest in some Feliway.

SparklingSnow Thu 03-Jan-13 14:11:37

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

OP, if you do decide to return your cat to the rescue centre/ have it put to sleep, it might be worth remembering that if you hadn't rescued it 3 years ago it would probably have been put to sleep then. You have given it 3 years of a, presumably, happy life which is more than I, or many other people have done.

PessaryPam Thu 03-Jan-13 14:22:50

Gordy, if you really loved cats you would be prepared to make some sacrifices.

fuzzypicklehead Thu 03-Jan-13 14:23:20

Valid point, JFL.

OP, if you live anywhere near the Cambridgeshire/Norfolk border, you can PM me if you get desperate. I may be able to help.

<so there, pessarypam!>

gordyslovesheep Thu 03-Jan-13 14:24:22

Pam I am - I have only ever homes rescue cats smile

when do the schools go back?

tittytittyhanghang Thu 03-Jan-13 14:31:34

YANBU. Those saying you wouldn't treat a child that way, isn't that a bit insensitive to the families of children with sn who have made the decision to have them live in full time accomodation where there needs can be greater met? I wouldn't martyr myself (providing id at least tried to fix the problem) by keeping a pet when i wasn't in a position to meet its physical needs. I take it all those saying YABU don't agree with nursing homes for the elderly neither?

SparklingSnow Thu 03-Jan-13 14:35:07

Tthh, there is a big difference in those scenarios you mentioned. If the cat gets sent back to the rescue centre, she will more than likely be put down. That's not a risk in your scenarios.

PessaryPam Thu 03-Jan-13 14:36:52

Dunno Gordy, mine are at Uni.

So does that mean that you only love cats from your rescue centre when you decide you want another one?

GrumpySod Thu 03-Jan-13 14:37:26

I'm with Just4Laughs.

tittytittyhanghang Thu 03-Jan-13 14:37:29

Well perhaps not pts, but panaroma didn't exactly paint a pretty picture of these support homes neither. (Not saying they are all like that, id like to hope that the ones in the news were few and far between)

SparklingSnow Thu 03-Jan-13 14:41:11

Bringing Winterbourne View and the sadistic bastards that worked there into a discussion about a cat is extremely low.

gordyslovesheep Thu 03-Jan-13 14:42:38

Pam you are making no sense what so ever - sorry

tittytittyhanghang Thu 03-Jan-13 14:43:47

Well i think guilt tripping the op by comparing a cat to a child is rather underhand as well, and was just displaying a point.

SparklingSnow Thu 03-Jan-13 14:48:24

All that has been pointed out is the truth. The cat will be more than likely have to be put down. That is not an attempt to guilt trip the OP.

I know exactly what I have posted. If you want to think otherwise, to make yourself better by bringing sadistic abuse into it, then on you go.

NaturalBaby Thu 03-Jan-13 14:50:28

I have a very similar cat, he's been on feliway and is like a new cat.
He decided our huge rug was his spot to wee on. Once the smell is on the spot then it's very difficult to stop it but not impossible. I used white vinegar and febreeze sprayed a few times a day. We got rid of the coir doormat by the front door.
If you're rescue home accepts your cat back then at least offer them a generous donation.

skratta Thu 03-Jan-13 15:17:13

About nine years ago, we had our 11yo cat put to sleep, after taking a year and a half settling in (we'd owned him for six years previously, it was a new house) and us using as many things as possible, contacting the rescue centre he was from and our local one, contacting the vet etc and being given some limited help etc; At the end of the day, we tried as much as possible, and he wouldn't probably settle in a rescue and would probably be unhappier. We wouldn't keep him because it was clear he was unhappy, and although we made some limited attempts to rehome him, we knew the reality was that he was unlikely to be rehomed, and would live a probably unhappy life here. It was heartbreaking, but at the end of the day, we made the best decision I believe, as we had tried everything, we had cared for him for six happy years previously, and tried to do our best for one and a half years and there was no real alternative.

Try all the advice, contact a vet, and see if there's any advice from websites like the PDSA which can have helpline things sometimes, but returning to the rescue centre is probably a bad idea, and having your cat put to sleep might be the best option- as long as you try as many alternatives as possible first.

skratta Thu 03-Jan-13 15:22:37

Oh by the way, the vet prescribed cat anti-depressants, and we used Feliway (I think it was set up in 1997 or something?) and similar things, prevented him going out, even took him to a cat psychologist thing/animal behaviourist. He was the one who told us that our cat would probably have to be PTS (although he explained it very kindly after having attempted to help us and our cat previously) and reccommended us discussing it with the vet, who had mentioned it before, but we tried to look for a way to help our cat.

ZuzuandZara Thu 03-Jan-13 15:28:11

I've only skim read so sorry if this has been suggested already.

We had this problem and cage training worked really well.

Get an indoor dog crate, not too large. Put it in a quiet area, spare room if possible.

There should only be room for the cats bed, her litter tray, food and water. Cats prefer not to wee/poo in their own beds or near food so confining the space should force her to start using her litter tray. When you are confident she is using the tray happily, gradually start increasing her space ie give her the whole room, increase the areas in the house she has access too.

Definitely get a feliway.

It might take a couple of weeks, not ideal to confine a cat to a cage but at that age I assume she's not the liveliest of things and it does work well.

Good luck.

msrisotto Thu 03-Jan-13 15:37:46

My cat (and a lot of cats I reckon) feel comforted by confined spaces. When we moved house I put her in her travel box in the bathroom for a couple of hours before letting her out of the box to explore the bathroom and after a couple of days, the rest of the house. She often retreats to a box for safety/security. So, I think crate training would also be a good way to go.

HDee Thu 03-Jan-13 15:43:15

SparklingSnow, we own a very lovely Shih-tzu, who neither pisses or shits anywhere, other than where he is supposed to. As a pet owner I deal with the odd vomit ,the muddy footprints, the six-weekly grooming costs etc.

What I won't deal with, for example, is a psychotic dog who snaps at people, a dog who marks his territory in the front room, a dog who randomly attacks other dogs, a dog who shits on my sofa...

A pet has to give some degree of pleasure, and when mine fails to do that (hopefully when he is old and senile) he will be PTS.

It's just an animal.

HDee Thu 03-Jan-13 15:44:14

Zuzu's idea sounds fabulous, btw.

specialsubject Thu 03-Jan-13 15:51:58

it's only a cat and no-one is coping. Have it put to sleep - but don't get animals again if you are not prepared to put up with this. I love cats but I don't have one because I am not prepared to clean up mess, empty litter trays and pay vets bills.

animals are not the same as children or elderly relatives, before anyone starts pearl-twiddling. (love that phrase!)

PeachActiviaMinge Thu 03-Jan-13 15:56:21

A pet has to give some degree of pleasure, and when mine fails to do that (hopefully when he is old and senile) he will be PTS.

It's just an animal.

Pathetic that really is pathetic, not every fucking living animal was put here for your entertainment they didn't ask for you to take them on you chose to and when you choose to do something like that you make a commitment to that animal to look after it for life not until you get fucking bored of it.

HDee Thu 03-Jan-13 16:05:17

Peach, thank you for fucking sharing your fucking opinion. (See what i did there? I used your favourite word, did you notice?) grin

I don't actually want all animals to entertain me, I just want my own to bring me a degree of pleasure. That pleasure has to outweigh the nasty parts, a bit like an equation. If you are dreading coming downstairs in the morning because you know there will be shit and piss everywhere, if you can't invite people round because your house smells like a feline latrine, if you've tried everything you can to resolve the situation, then it's job done IMO.

KellyElly Thu 03-Jan-13 16:06:51

OP, if you do decide to return your cat to the rescue centre/ have it put to sleep, it might be worth remembering that if you hadn't rescued it 3 years ago it would probably have been put to sleep then. You have given it 3 years of a, presumably, happy life which is more than I, or many other people have done. Or perhaps would be living a full and happy life with another owner hmm

KellyElly my comment was based on the number of people telling the OP about how hard it is to rehome cats of all ages, including kittens but particulary those who have not got a perfect background. assuming, as I have no reason not to, that those comments are based on fact, then the obvious conclusion would be that the cat would have been unlikely (not impossible, but unlikely) to have found another home, 3 years ago.

KellyElly Thu 03-Jan-13 16:13:38

HDee The OP hasn't tried everything she can to resolve the situation as she hasn't even tried Feliway which is surely the first thing anyone who actually knows anything about cats would do?

msrisotto Thu 03-Jan-13 16:25:59

It's just an animal

It's only a cat

Now i'm not one for equating pets to children, but I don't view their lives as disposable and those attitudes displayed above are absolutely vile.

FierySmaug Thu 03-Jan-13 16:26:13

Yanbu. I'm with HDee on this one. If it's getting too much, then it's perfectly acceptable to take it back to the cat rescue.
If I was in your position, I wouldn't think twice about getting rid, especially as I have children. I couldn't stand cleaning up cat wee and poo on a daily basis, it's vile and would drive me mad.
It's just a cat, not a child, and can be re-homed.

KellyElly Thu 03-Jan-13 16:36:04

Now i'm not one for equating pets to children, but I don't view their lives as disposable and those attitudes displayed above are absolutely vile Agreed. I think judging by the attitudes I see frequently on these sort of threads, animals who have owners who see them as part of the family and commit to looking after them for their whole lives (not sacking them off when they become too inconvenient), are very lucky. A nation of animal lovers seems to be a bit of an overstatement.

HDee Thu 03-Jan-13 16:41:15

I don't think their lives should be disposable. For example, my shih-tzu no longer matches our decor, but we still keep him. But when he starts making everyone's lives unpleasant, it will be time to send him on his way.

I'm not sorry to say that an incontinent animal is never going to be part of our family.

msrisotto Thu 03-Jan-13 16:43:33

HDee you said:
A pet has to give some degree of pleasure, and when mine fails to do that (hopefully when he is old and senile) he will be PTS.

You view their lives as disposable. I don't mean to implicate the OP in this btw as she only said they'd consider rehoming the poor thing.

GrumpySod Thu 03-Jan-13 16:44:32

If cat is soiling everywhere all the time it is not happy in OP's home and that alone suggests a compelling case for finding it a home better suited to ITS needs.

Paiviaso Thu 03-Jan-13 16:45:05

I am also very saddened by the "it's just a cat" comments. sad

HDee Thu 03-Jan-13 16:45:25

I'm just thinking, times like now, where I am relaxing on my bed, listening to my children have a disco in the front room, would be impossible with a pet whose bowels let loose without warning. I'd have to be constantly on my guard, ready with the cleaning equipment, just-in-case.

The alternative would be to shut away our pet, who has been part of our family for years, in an area that can be easily mopped/hosed down. This situation would be far more traumatic for our dog than just putting him to sleep, surely?

HazleNutt Thu 03-Jan-13 16:46:58

10-year old cat with problems re-homed? Very unlikely. One of our cats also peed on the bed and sofa for several months and one of the dogs pees when she is excited or scared. Annoying as it is, it happens, they're still our pets and I haven't even considered getting rid of them.

Feliway and why not prozac as the vet recommended.

Well I'm not an animal lover, hence I have no pets and proud to say so. I think our general attitude that animals have been put on the planet for our entertainment is vile. The logical conclusion to that is that we shouldn't be keeping pets at all, animals should left in the wild where they would live a natural life and a natural life span. Once you start treating animals as commodities to enhance your own life (which is what a pet is) then you start down the slippery slope of when that commodity becomes an inconvenience.

msrisotto Thu 03-Jan-13 16:48:42

No, if you're determined not to make an effort to find out what is causing the potentially reversible anxiety then take him to a re-homing place that won't put healthy animals down. Have a little compassion! It isn't a case of living in your house or dying!

Paiviaso Thu 03-Jan-13 16:50:35

The OPs cat is not incontinent; incontinence is the inability to physically control urination. The cat is simply going to the bathroom in places the OP doesn't like, likely do the stress of moving. It is a situation that can likely be rectified.

SparklingSnow Thu 03-Jan-13 16:51:16

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PeachActiviaMinge Thu 03-Jan-13 16:54:22

Yes I do appreciate that HDee grin

My dog has recently been peeing the behaviourist and vet both agree its due to the fact I'm pregnant and the changes are hard for him (I.e having to sleep downstairs) he even peed on DD's duvet while she was staying at her DGM's I didn't for a second think of putting him to sleep or rehoming him. Instead when I got up in the morning and he was shaking in his basket afraid of being told off I made a fuss of him and just cleaned it up. Its not his fault he's afraid we rehomed him after he was bounced around several people the first lot got rid of him when she fell pregnant so I can understand his fear even DH who really isn't an animal lover would never consider having him PTS or rehomed for incontinence.

Go find Fabs "I think this will be Fabcats last thread" thread in the litter tray and look at everything she has done for her cat who tends to be incontinent is very old and needs regular vet treatment now thats how we should be caring for our pets the amount of love she shows her cat really makes me hope that more people could think like she does.

PessaryPam Thu 03-Jan-13 17:00:28

PeachActiviaMinge maybe you could take it in?

PessaryPam Thu 03-Jan-13 17:06:33

gordyslovesheep Pam you are making no sense what so ever - sorry

Oh I am, you just don't like what I say.

gordyslovesheep Thu 03-Jan-13 17:09:36

no I actually didn't understand a word of your last post to me as it made no sense - hth smile

Squirrelface Thu 03-Jan-13 17:18:56

If the problems started when you moved house, then presumably this has unsettled the cat. She might be scared of other cats outside, or noise from building work too? If possible I would keep her in one room, with a litter tray, no soft furnishings and ideally no carpet, so it's easy to clean and doesn't tempt her to pee/poo in inappropriate places. Provide a box or bed out of the way, where she can feel secure, and try the feliway recommended by others. If she starts using the litter tray, then gradually give her access to more rooms. I definitely wouldn't give her the run of the house until she has got back into the habit of using the litter tray. Also some cats are quite fussy about the type of litter, or how often you change it.

I can understand you must be tearing your hair out with this, but it sounds as if maybe she needs to feel more secure, and reducing her territory to a smaller quieter area might help.

alistron1 Thu 03-Jan-13 17:38:29

The cat is distressed by the move and changes. She's trying to mark her territory. Cats aren't idiots and she knows that what she's doing is 'wrong' but she can't help it.

As a pp said, you need to work on making her feel more secure - hard work for you but less distressing for her than returning her to rescue where she will not be rehomed.

This is part of being a pet owner. It's not all purrs and stroking.

PeachActiviaMinge Thu 03-Jan-13 17:52:24

Yes because the cat would be oh so happy being shuffled about again into a house with a dog breed bred to have a very high prey drive for small furry animals. hmm You really are proving yourself very intelligent. smile

ComposHat Thu 03-Jan-13 18:13:03

I think to say 'he will not be re-homed' is a bit absolute - why not speak to the shelter and see what their policy is and the likelihood of him getting a new home?

I don't think that it should be the first course of action and there are plenty of other things you can try before it gets to this stage.

We actually went out looking for an older cat when we got wee Poppy (we think she was about 8 or 9) and she had been living at the shelter for some six months.

PessaryPam Thu 03-Jan-13 18:25:15

OK I have decided that there are a lot of strange people on here who think that subjecting small children to a life of living in a stinking house with a cat that shits and pisses everywhere is reasonable. I think it's child abuse, but obviously cats are far more important. Talk about 1st world problems. And all those holier than though cat lovers, why not step and offer to have the thing. Put your money where your judgemental mouths are. The OP has tried really hard and has failed so cut her some slack.

SparklingSnow Thu 03-Jan-13 18:33:54

And I have decided that there are a lot of heartless, cruel people on this thread.

People need to think properly before taking on a pet so they don't keep getting rejected.

PeachActiviaMinge Thu 03-Jan-13 18:54:00

The OP has not tried "really hard" hence the advice offered on here! Maybe in your little world hardly any effort is needed to have tried really hard but for most people its a case of exhausting all possibilities including those offered on here before giving up and having tried really hard.

Corygal Thu 03-Jan-13 18:55:18

"...to all those who think it's acceptable to inflict feline shit and urine on small children in their own home."

What about the shit and piss of babies and small children... in other people's family homes, the bus, the train and shops?

HDee Thu 03-Jan-13 18:59:07

Heartless and cruel is keeping alive an incontinent animal just because you, the owner, 'loves' it. I realise the OPs cat isn't incontinent through old age, but the result is the same. Just the thought of one of my toddlers stumbling into a pile of steaming poo or slipping in piss makes me wretch.

I'm glad I will never be a nutty pet owner who can't see the wood for the trees. My family comes before any animal.

oldpeculiar Thu 03-Jan-13 18:59:50

'OK I have decided that there are a lot of strange people on here who think that subjecting small children to a life of living in a stinking house with a cat that shits and pisses everywhere is reasonable.

hear hear! shows how much they think of their children.I too wait for one of them to offer a home to this cat.If not why not?

oldpeculiar Thu 03-Jan-13 19:01:13

'What about the shit and piss of babies and small children... in other people's family homes, the bus, the train and shops? '

where? I never see any , only that of fucking dogs!

OverlyYappyAlways Thu 03-Jan-13 19:01:51

I had to put mine a crate for a while, then a very small room at the back of the last house, she only pissed once but that was enough, she was stressed out by going out and other cats bullying her, I moved house she was very stressed again, but then she just stopped, she is still a strange cat but I cannot give her away.

She comes down stairs at 9pm every night, and goes into the kitchen sleeps there then upstairs as soon as I am up, she lives in my son room on the top bunk! Strange but happy enough.....

Lock her away, to save pissing etc on floor, it wasn't a huge problems for me as I had tiles and hardwood. I don't like carpets my Dc are dirty!

oldpeculiar Thu 03-Jan-13 19:02:33

sorry that's on the street, the grass etc obviously not in shops. because oh yes babies wear nappies becauise crap and piss everywhere is unacceptable

OverlyYappyAlways Thu 03-Jan-13 19:02:56

I would have vet checked tbh!

Mine only does 2 pees a day and one poo at 9pm every night!

LouisWalshsChristmasCloset Thu 03-Jan-13 19:03:33

^ this.
Cant remember the last time i stepped it toddler poo when out for a.stroll

Agree Feliway is great, we have a very similar situation with our cat.

Also you may need to leave lit tray down more permanently?

SparklingSnow Thu 03-Jan-13 19:12:17

HDee, someone who is willing to put down an innocent animal just because they see the animal as an inconvenience, is heartless and cruel.

KellyElly Thu 03-Jan-13 19:22:44

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marriedinwhite Thu 03-Jan-13 19:25:19

OP. I am a cat lover. We have three.

Many, many years ago we moved to a new house with a very nervous cat who was then about 8 and who I had had since she was a kitten. She was not happy, she had always been a neurotic cat. There was a ginger tom bruiser outside who badly scratched her rear as she slammed back in through the cat flap. After about six months she started to calm down and with the cat flap gone and confined to the utility room she she stopped peeing all over the house.

Then we had a baby and it started all over again. The baby got bigger, the baby had respiratory problems, the cat was ever more unhappy and by then about 11. The baby started crawling, the cat was messing everywhere and very unhappy and needed more attention that I could give her. I talked to the vet, I agonised over what to do. The vet said "actually you have a child with chronic respiratory problems and the child has to come first and you don't know if the asthma is exacerbated by the cat". I don't think Feliway was around 16 years ago.

We were debating what would be best and were looking into having a heated pen installed in the garden that would protect her from other cats and isolate her from the 13/14 month old. The vet called unexpectedly to say that he had just pts an elderly cat for an elderly lady who was devastated but who had a quiet home, who wouldn't contemplate a young cat because she was mid 80s and who had the time and care to give to a nervous cat. I know we were lucky and got a lucky break - but that cat had a good life for another three years until she died of natural causes.

The vet was also contemplating that the cat might be developing dementia that was exacerbated by the changes she had to suffer.

The thing I'm trying to say is even the vet said the baby had to come first but also there are alternatives that might be considered if you have a good vet and a bit of time or money on your hands.

KellyElly Thu 03-Jan-13 19:33:25

The vet said "actually you have a child with chronic respiratory problems and the child has to come first and you don't know if the asthma is exacerbated by the cat". Married, in that situation its totally appropriate to rehome the cat. Of course animals don't come before your children and if a child has asthma and cat hairs are contributing to it getting worse that's absolutely the right thing to do. In OPs case she could have just googled stressed cat and Feliway would have popped up. I'm very surprised the vet didn't suggest this as they are stocked in all vets surgeries. I have a very nervous cat and this works every time we move and also after I had DD.

skratta Thu 03-Jan-13 19:40:28

Some people on this thread seem to consider cats worthless. Although they should not be considered or equated to children, cats, as pets, should be cared for for as long and as kindly as possible. However, in some situations, like with my cat, which I mentioned before, sometimes cats will have to be PTS, which can prevent the cat from either a lot of suffering and fear if all methods have failed, and if the likelihood is they won't be rehomed, so sending them to a rescue centre would either mean being PTS later, or, if a 'no kill' one, your cat living out his days with not much attention and probably a stressful, unhappy life.

marriedinwhite Thu 03-Jan-13 19:56:22

But the OP could think laterally and beyond sending the cat for rehoming even if she doesn't feel she can keep it. That's what I'm trying to say really. And i still feel guilty because I don't ultimately think DS's respiratory problems were cat related but we didn't know that at the time. I still remember taking her to the lady and feeling so upset. She had a little flat near the common and she and the cat were happy. She went into a home shortly after the cat was pts and by then I had two small children and never managed to visit her before she died.

KellyElly Thu 03-Jan-13 21:07:26

Married you sound like a lovely pet owner and did everything you could for your cat. So far removed from some of the inhumane attitudes on here.

MummytoMog Thu 03-Jan-13 21:24:17

Oh dear. We had a cat like that - still have her in fact, but she stopped the inappropriate elimination eventually and we have no idea why. Bought all the Vicky Halls books, fun to read but didn't help in the slightest. Tried Feliway, did sod all. We ended up using herbal remedies in the water for a bit, but after we'd had her a year or so, and moved house, it calmed down and she's still grumpy but doesn't crap everywhere. It may have been a local stray upsetting her, so my only suggestion is that you try blocking up the catflap for a bit and see if she settles down. Or, if you're anywhere near east London and have a big car, I have a cat pen with heaters I could do with getting rid of ;)

PessaryPam Thu 03-Jan-13 23:25:28

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D0oinMeCleanin Thu 03-Jan-13 23:33:02

Why does the Doghouse get a bad name? This thread is just the same. responsible people vs couldn't give a shit people.

FWIW I am with the cat people.

I have a cat. He has IBS. I have a mop and hard floors.

When people realise that when you bring an animal into your home there is a chance it will become ill/elderly/stressed and start toileting in the house? If you are not prepared to go to all lengths to solve this before you give up on your pet, then you really should have pets.

Put the cat on Prozac like the vet suggested. Buy some Feliway. Consult a behaviourist.

SparklingSnow Fri 04-Jan-13 00:37:18

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SparklingSnow Fri 04-Jan-13 00:39:39

Also, nobody has insulted the OP. All certain posters have been doing is telling her the truth about what would happen. And also pointing out that she hasn't even tried other options.

Some people obviously want to keep their heads buried in the sand...

SparklingSnow Fri 04-Jan-13 00:43:40

DOoinMeCleanin is a responsible cat owner. She hasn't rejected her cat to be put to sleep just because he has a health problem. That's what people should do when they take in an animal. Be aware that health problems can happen.

If you can't deal with that, then the answer is simple. Do not take a pet. Very simple.

ThatVikRinA22 Fri 04-Jan-13 01:02:41

for me, an animal is for life - thats a quality of life for the animal, but i would no more get an animal pts or hand it back like a disposable product than fly to the moon.

i dont understand why anyone would "rescue" an animal only to hand it back when the going gets tough. animals pee, vomit, shit and shed hair. If you cant cope with that then dont get one would be my advice.

i have always seen myself as a responsible pet owner - in that my animals are with me for life, and i have ended that life when its been in their best interest to do so - not mine i hasten to add.

the attitude to animals on here does baffle me somewhat in that many people seem to see pets as disposable.

im all for responsible pet owner ship and euthanising when their quality of life is such that its the kind thing to do.
but handing a cat back to the shop like a returnable goods is beyond me really. why bother in the first place really?
to those saying it got 3 more years with op....it could have just as easily got 10 more quality years with someone else. its a mute point. what ifs are mute.

i have had many cats and dogs, plus many other smaller animals including hamsters, rats, rabbits and guinea pigs - the ones i have found hardest work i have refused to get again (and those were the small rodents)

dont rescues have a policy of rehoming for life? if you cant guarantee a home for life then dont do it. let someone else who can do it instead. simple.

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Fri 04-Jan-13 01:38:20

It's only a cat. It doesn't have the imagination or thought processes to feel 'rejected'. If it's stressing you out, take it back to the cat rescue, or offer it free to a good home on Ebay or something. It's not like you're planning to set fire to it or drop it down a mineshaft.

Loveweekends10 Fri 04-Jan-13 06:28:58

We are in the same boat exactly. It's made me feel unattached to the cat. I will try that felliway stuff.

catsmother Fri 04-Jan-13 07:59:02

Yes Vicar - exactly.

And please please please don't "offer free to a good home on eBay" etc .... you have no way of knowing where it'd end up or how it'd be treated. Rescue centres charge a fee not only to (partially) cover their costs but also to deter people from taking pets without (hopefully) a great deal of thought beforehand, plus the hope that anyone prepared to mistreat an animal is less likely to pay for one in the 1st place.

kilmuir Fri 04-Jan-13 08:05:14

Poor cat.

Booboostoo Fri 04-Jan-13 08:11:33

I suspect that the people who suggest PTS so quickly haven't actually had to make the decision, take a pet to the vet and stay there while it was being done. Having had the misfortune to have horses and dogs PTS, it's not a decision anyone can make lightly.

There is a potentially, easy solution, Feliway, just try it OP and see what happens.

seeker Fri 04-Jan-13 08:20:18

Now this is something I genuinely don't understand.

I see that the Op hasn't tried feliway- an I know it works sometimes. But say she does, and it doesn't work. So she has a cat that pees and poos everywhere. Are people genuinely saying that she should just let it live normally in the house and carry on cleaning up aft it for the rest of its natural life? Surely not- surely. Or that it should be contained in a small, easy to clean area? Which would be horrible for a cat used to family life.

People talk about only PTS when the animal's quality of life has deteriorated. Well, in my long experience of cats I would say that any cat that could not keep itself and it's environment clean would have a poor quality of life. All their instincts tell them to be clean- it must be distressing not to be able to.

Mrsrudolphduvall Fri 04-Jan-13 08:35:41

My cat is 10.
If she suddenly became incontinent and the vet said that the situation wasn't going to improve after exploring all possibilities,yes I would have her PTS.

Agree with seeker...it must be distressing for the cat not to be clean.
We have never had a litter tray...she has always gone outside.

theodorakisses Fri 04-Jan-13 08:39:08

As a rescuer and foster owner, I think asking the rescue to take the cat back is a responsible thing to do. OK, maybe people may have a fair point in saying you took it on and should try and solve the problems, but the fact you seem to be at the end of your tether means that the relationship may well be past the point of return. Either decide to give it one last go or return it and don't feel guilty. Throwing it out on the streets or advertising it on Gumtree is when you should feel guilty.
One thing though, please don't go out and get a "new" one straight away. This is what seems to happen in my world so often and it may be that your circumstances are not ideal for any cat at the moment. Also, the scent of the old cat everywhere is likely to encourage any new cat to do the same.
This is always going to be an emotive subject and I sympathise with all views but at the end of the day you are not happy and I don't think the cat is happy. Something has to give.

theodorakisses Fri 04-Jan-13 08:43:26

I agree about posting in litter tray though, my rescue Persian pooed in the bath for the first 2 weeks and then I asked for advice there and all that was wrong was her litter tray was too close to her food. I moved it to the other side of the room and have had a bath poo free 12 months since. They really do know what they are talking about.

marriedinwhite Fri 04-Jan-13 08:45:09

That sounds very sensible theodorakisses. I know our cat stopped messing when she was rehomed with the old lady. It was a quiet home, with a litter tray, and lots of attention from a lady who was at home all day.

socharlotte Fri 04-Jan-13 08:49:34

'I suspect that the people who suggest PTS so quickly haven't actually had to make the decision, take a pet to the vet and stay there while it was being done. Having had the misfortune to have horses and dogs PTS, it's not a decision anyone can make lightly.

No you don't have to stay, you just leave it with the vet to do after you've gone.
I don't get all this 'don't have pets f you are not prepared to clean up after them for years' lark. Do you not realise the number of cats available for homing far far exceeds the number of homes available? The Op has given this cat a home for 3 years.
Having a cat shitting al over the house is compromising the health and safety and comfort of her children.Any responsible persn puts their children before their pet.The cat is clearly unhappy.Animals live in the moment.
Get it PTS!

SamuelWestsMistress Fri 04-Jan-13 09:03:00

I agree with getting her put to sleep, if she can't become an outside cat. This cat isn't happy and passing on a problem to someone else isn't fair on them or the cat. Cat homes are over run (there is a report on the go just now about the RSPCA putting healthy animals down because they're so full)

We have EXACTLY the same problem as you OP so I can sympathise. Our cat is also about 10 and from a cat home and has always been a pisser shitter in the house which also got far worse when we moved. He has caused £100s of damage with pissing and shitting on stuff and has even ruined a box full of photographs. I had enough and told DH I was having him out down but he wouldn't let me, so I told him the only compromise was for him to become an outside cat and be banished from the house permanently. We have a back room with the boiler and washing machine in which he comes in and out of as he pleases. His box is in there and so is his food. He's been like that for nearly a year and has settled in well. Sometimes he does manage to sneak back into the house but its never for long.

HazleNutt Fri 04-Jan-13 09:03:46

Most cats available for homing are available exactly because the previous family didn't feel it was convenient to have a pet any more. Yes, one should not have pets if you're not prepared to deal with possible problems as well.
Here the vet recommended prozac, as the cat is not incontinent and unable to keep itself clean, it's just stressed. But for some reason OP does not want to even try?

Whatiswitnit Fri 04-Jan-13 09:07:43

I understand the annoyance and frustration as I have two cats that have both gone through periods of spraying in the house. It is definitely a sign of stress.

A pet behaviour woman suggested these things to me to try:

Feliway diffuser.
Making some safe high up places for cats to sit and view the world. Eg shelf.
Rubbing a clean cloth on cat's head where their scent glands are and then going around the house rubbing it on furniture and areas where marking and spraying usually happened.
Using a proper cleaner for pet stains and odours to remove all residual scent of urine.
Having a catflap that works only for your cat. (Our cats were being terrorised by a local farm Tom)
Putting litter trays somewhere the cat feels safe and unthreatened. There should be one more trays than cats.

YANBU to be considering taking the cat back because it can be a nightmare dealing with this problem but please try to tackle it and do what you can to make your cat feel safe and happy so the need/desire to spray and urinate stops.

Ishtar2410 Fri 04-Jan-13 09:08:58

We rehomed a cat from Cats Protection a few years ago. She came to us supposedly house trained, but wasn't. We're no stranger to rehoming cats, but despite trying everything she was never house trained - we'd find shit everywhere...kitchen surfaces, sofas, behind doors, you name it, we found cat shit there. One that sticks in my mind was was having to clear it off DDs bed.

We went to the vets, tried diffusers, litter trays in every room, keeping her in one room, and so on. After two years of this, we finally admitted defeat and took her to an animal sanctuary.

Prior to this, I had asked for advice on another forum - can't remember which now (I've wiped it from my memory) - and I was royally flamed for not sticking with it and trying to sort things out.

But two sodding years of clearing up cat shit really was enough.

OP, you have to do what you think is best, you really do - if you've had enough, then it's time to take her back. I see your situation is slightly different to mine, in that your cat has only recently started, but if there is no sign that things can get better, then you have to make the decision about what to do for the best. It's a highly emotive subject, but you have to do what's right for you and your family.

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Fri 04-Jan-13 11:34:33

Thing is, animals are only animals. There's a big difference between active cruelty to one, or serious neglect (insufficient food/not giving it exercise if it's a dog, for example) and deciding that its presence in your home is distressing to you and other family members so it needs to go elsewhere. The quality of life of the human beings in the family takes priority over any animal, and living with constant catshit and cat piss everywhere is not good for the human beings, so it's not a major crime to get rid of the cat.

I completely understand how you feel OP, I took on my dads cat as he couldn't care for them and the boy keeps spraying under my sons bed (midsleeper). It's driving me insane, I've invested in some Feliway but this is my last resort!!

fuzzypicklehead Fri 04-Jan-13 12:19:17

StrawberryTot-- is the boy neutered? If not, take him for the snip--that's one of the quickest way to sort spraying.

ThatVikRinA22 Fri 04-Jan-13 13:43:29

i agree wholly with seeker - if the animals quality of life is no longer tenable then PTS. i dont think anyone is saying live with it....

but try other things first just to see if its something simple - and dont give away the cat for free on ebay - people use animals for bait for dog fights etc and it could end up being used in that way.

i would talk to the vet, and let the vet advise.

it still baffles me how people treat animals as disposable objects....for me my animals are part of the family. My rescue dog wasnt house trained when i got her - she was so easy to sort out with just a little effort.

if the cat is truly beyond help and her quality of life poor then i would pts. But talk to the vet first and dont rehome any other animals if you think you would feel the tempation to hand them back after a few years.

socharlotte Fri 04-Jan-13 13:52:10

so vicar, would you put a cat before your children? or do you not think that children have aright to a home free from animal faeces?

seeker Fri 04-Jan-13 14:24:02

I don't think of animals as disposable objects. However, I also don't think that an animal's quality of life has to have deteriorated loads before the owner should consider PTS.

I think that putting animals through gruelling and painful veterinary treatment is almost always cruel, and in the interests of the owner rather than the animal. Humans can understand that the pain will end, that the confinement isn't permanent, that they will get better. Animals can't. They only have the now. As far as they are concerned, this pain is all there is. It's very selfish, in my opinion, to subject an animal to physical or psychological suffering rather than to a quick, painless, fear free death, just because you can't bear to say goodbye.

Montybojangles Fri 04-Jan-13 14:33:59

I'm a bit shock at PTS idea. The messing coincides with a traumatic event for the already neurotic cat (moving) which would surely indicate the cat is only incontinent as a result of stress.

Montybojangles Fri 04-Jan-13 14:39:00

Darned iPad, posts before I finish.
Try the feliway. Also have you tried putting the cat in a large animal cage in a quiter part of the house? Keeping it confined to a smaller, quiter area may make it feel it has a safe place (DCcould be exacerbating the stress just by being DC).
Hope you do get things sorted out, if desperate then try the rescue place you got her from, I'm sure they would want a say in what happens to her (also a lot of them actually class themselves as the owner with you a fosterer, so technically it's up to them what happens to the cat with regard rehoming).

Montybojangles Fri 04-Jan-13 14:40:00

Quieter area (i quit!)

Snog Fri 04-Jan-13 14:45:29

Although the current situation sounds really annoying, sadly you are kidding yourself if you think your cat would be better off at a rescue centre - even if they are not already full and would in fact take your cat.

Why not keep a litter tray indoors all the time and try to find out which litter your cat prefers and where she likes the tray, how full she likes it to be and if she prefers open or covered trays.

There is a cheaper plug in for cats than feliway here - might be worth trying this one first?

ThatVikRinA22 Fri 04-Jan-13 16:19:24

socharlotte are you just ignoring the fact i said no one is expecting the OP to live with it? least of all me. but i would not send a nervous 10 yr old cat back to a rescue either,

i have discovered a cat litter revelation - my cats are the pee once and then use the floor variety but with this litter my kitties are transformed....

this stuff is fab and available in smaller bags so not as costly but lasts literally months and months

SparklingSnow Fri 04-Jan-13 17:55:42

I see that more cruel people have popped up.

Really, how hard is it to think things through properly before you take a pet in?!

seeker Fri 04-Jan-13 17:56:57

Who is cruel?

SparklingSnow Fri 04-Jan-13 18:02:45

Posters who are saying that it's acceptable to have the cat put to sleep.

seeker Fri 04-Jan-13 18:36:57

Putting an animal to sleep is not cruel.

Keeping a cat alive when it can no longer keep itself or it's environment clean is. As anyone who knows anything about the nature and instincts of cats will know.

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Fri 04-Jan-13 18:44:25

Circumstances change, though. What was once manageable becomes unmanageable for a variety of reasons. People have to move house to rented premises that won't allow pets; people who have dogs and once3 worked PT sometimes have to change their working hours, people who had pets before DC suddenly find that the DC are either allergic to the pets, really afraid of them or can't treat them properly (or the pet feels sufficiently displaced by the child to become aggressive towards the childs). Some of the whinyarses on this thread remind me of antichoice whinyarses who think that terminating a pregnancy is OK as long as your reasons are 'good enough' by their standards when the fact is it makes no difference to a foetus - and none to an animal that is being either rehomed or euthanized. That you don't want to continue in your current situation is reason enough to change it.

SparklingSnow Fri 04-Jan-13 19:39:11

Seeker, putting a cat to sleep just because the cat has some problems is disgusting.

SparklingSnow Fri 04-Jan-13 19:41:03

If an animal has a terminal illness and would be suffering in pain, that's a whole different situation. But for someone to put an animal down just because they see him/her as an inconvenience is disgraceful.

stookiesackhouse Fri 04-Jan-13 20:08:38

There are some total arses on this thread.

To clarify, those who are saying the cat is inconvenient, get rid, it's only an animal.

NaturalBaby Fri 04-Jan-13 20:18:05

I was beginning to wonder if some posters had any idea what they were talking about.

The cat cage idea sounds perfect. My cat (who has had very similar issues) has our loft room to escape to, as soon as our dc's are all asleep he comes downstairs and has the whole house to himself. He's always been an indoor cat so living outdoors wasn't an option.

Do rescue centres really put cats to sleep if they can't be rehomed?? I'm pretty sure the cats protection don't (where our cats came from) and was aware that some dog rescue centres do.

HazleNutt Fri 04-Jan-13 20:23:42

True, if you do get rid of the cat, it probably does not matter to her if this is after you have tried everything and think it's the best for the cat or when the cat simply became a bit of an inconvenience. However, obviously the person who believes pets are disposable if they are not that cute and convenient any more, is more likely to get rid of the cat and to add to the number of pets in shelters.

socharlotte Fri 04-Jan-13 20:30:09

Why is it disgusting or cruel to put a cat to sleep.It won't know anything about it.It has no hopes and dreams to fulfill before it dies.
stop projecting human thoughts and feelings on to an animal!

stookiesackhouse Fri 04-Jan-13 20:31:57

socharlotte - are animals lives disposable then?

SparklingSnow Fri 04-Jan-13 20:36:13

socharlotte, you sound like such a lovely, kind person hmm

gordyslovesheep Fri 04-Jan-13 20:37:20

exactly - just kill a pet once it becomes too hard to look after - I would ban people with that attitude from keeping pets

a bit of wee and poo is not going to kill the OP - once all options have been tried rehoming may be needed but this cat hasn;t even been given basic help to adjust which is down to lazy owners

gordyslovesheep Fri 04-Jan-13 20:37:44

exactly - just kill a pet once it becomes too hard to look after - I would ban people with that attitude from keeping pets

a bit of wee and poo is not going to kill the OP - once all options have been tried rehoming may be needed but this cat hasn;t even been given basic help to adjust which is down to lazy owners

SparklingSnow Fri 04-Jan-13 20:39:52

gordys, I hope that no animal ever ends up with some posters on here! The poor animal wouldn't stand a chance with them.

seeker Fri 04-Jan-13 20:55:35

"Seeker, putting a cat to sleep just because the cat has some problems is disgusting."
You obviously know nothing about cats.

marriedinwhite Fri 04-Jan-13 21:49:37

I've just remembered a documentary I once watched about a family here in Putney whose cat was involved in a dreadful hit and run and last all control over bladder and to some extent bowels. I think the DH was a banker and had enrepreneurial aptitudes and invented nappies for incontinent cats.

It sounds slightly mad I know but could th OP google and research and cd this be a solution.

Seeker - you are too "royal" to be flamed but I reserve the right to disagree with you on many occasion--s--.

Kentish maids (you might be a Maid of) must always stick together - even in disagreement.

SparklingSnow Fri 04-Jan-13 21:49:56

And you obviously do not have a heart.

SparklingSnow Fri 04-Jan-13 21:53:02

So, Seeker, you are basically saying that it's fine for cat owners to be lazy and irresponsible.

And that's putting it mildly.

marriedinwhite Fri 04-Jan-13 21:59:45

I've seen many of Seeker's posts. Seeker and I disagree on very much but Seeker is a caring person. Seeker is being pragmatic and even as a "cat" person I can see that.

We faced a difficult decision, not dissimilar to the OP's and hand on heart we had tough choices ahead if we hadn't had a lucky break via the vet. We may have been at an adv because the cat had had the same vet for 11 years and we had developed a gd relationship with him and he helped us when the chips were down.

marriedinwhite Fri 04-Jan-13 22:03:10

Sod the litter tray. Anyone want to join forces and found "Catsnet". (Grin)

seeker Fri 04-Jan-13 22:12:42

So it's better for an animal who is driven by instinct to be clean to be forced to live a life where it can't help itself peeing and pooing where it knows inn the heart of it's being that it shouldn't than for it to be, without pain or fear, put to sleep? Why, exactly? Because it's human owner is a coward?

seeker Fri 04-Jan-13 22:13:54

Thank you, marriedinwhite-I think!

SparklingSnow Fri 04-Jan-13 22:15:25

The point is that the OP hasn't bothered to try out many suggestions which could help the cat. Many people have pointed this out.

SparklingSnow Fri 04-Jan-13 22:18:08

marriedinwhite - I read your post about your cat and you did what was best for your cat. Your cat was obviously well loved and you did the right thing.
You were doing what any responsible cat owner would do.

redwallday Fri 04-Jan-13 22:24:11

It's the stress of the move. You really need to restrict her to one small room and do so until she is totally at ease. Then allow her a bit more space and reintroduce her to the house slowly. Remove anything she can damage. I have two nervous cats and recently had an extension done which meant the house a wreck, builders in site and having to move to my mothers for several weeks. It's hard but it's not impossible.

CheshireDing Fri 04-Jan-13 22:26:21

Our cat started weeing and pooing when we moved in to our current house last year, he had never done it in our old house (which he came to as a rescue moggie).

I think he was stressed about moving and we have pfb, we just made sure that at night he was locked in the kitchen/dining area with a cat flat out through the garage and a bed so if he pooped it wasn't on a carpet. He also has a bed in the box room which is lovely and cosy on the top floor.

It just took a bit of time, plus the new local cats kept beating him up sad We just used to spend time with him in the evenings once pfb was asleep, he is back to his usual happy cat self now smile

CheshireDing Fri 04-Jan-13 22:27:05

oh and now he loves hanging out with the baby, even when she crawls on him!

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Fri 04-Jan-13 22:36:45

Cat-keeping is environmentally harmful sentimentality anyway. Cats are destructive of other wildlife including plants, cat litter and cat shit are an environmental nuisance, there is no need for the vast numbers of pedigree cats that currently exist to do so. Cats (and many of the other animals kept as pets) don't percieve the world the way human beings do and don't experience much in the way of emotion. The fact that some people insist on projecting their own beliefs onto four-legged eating/killing/shitting machines is their issue, not a cat's.

marriedinwhite Fri 04-Jan-13 22:38:24

Yes, but sparkling if the vet hadn't turned up trumps she woukd have been in a pen outside or rehomed via the Cats Protection League - I had already talked to them and was going to visit a foster carer although I think we woukd have bought a pen and put her in it pending a suitable permanent home. And don't forget that we could afford to instal and had the space for a heated pen with a run. Not all pet owners are that lucky. We also were able to afford 11 years of regular vet visits which helped build a good relationship.

Also, I think it's not unuisual for foster parents to hand back their charges for rehoming and I'm not sure they would receive such vitriol if the children were unhappy and behaving dysfunctionally.

ThatVikRinA22 Fri 04-Jan-13 22:43:18

sgb so is having children - over populating sentimentality on a grand scale that does more damage than owning a cat.

global warming is more damaging than owning a moggie, over population is more damaging than owning a moggie. you have a child dont you?

i could have had 2 more kids - instead i had cats. probably less damaging on a global scale.

seeker Fri 04-Jan-13 22:51:16

People just won't address the cruelty of keeping an animal that lives in the moment alive in psychological or physical distress just because their owners are too cowardly to face brutal reality.

gordyslovesheep Fri 04-Jan-13 22:56:10

no Seeker the cruelty is in the owner doing nothing to address the fairly normal stress of moving house in the cat - the cat needs care to adjust to the change as anyone who actually does know about cats understands - and accepts

thinking oh well moved house, cat not best pleased and did a few poos - get it PTS - that is shameful

ThatVikRinA22 Fri 04-Jan-13 22:58:35

i have owned 4 cats in my adult life. and 2 dogs.

the first 2 cats were pts when they had cancer that impeded their quality of life. i would never hesitate to do that for any animal that i loved if their quality of life has become non existent.

cats are inherently clean animals, if its messing all over there is a reason - you have to find the reason and address it - whatever that means.

my first cat was messing all over due to bladder cancer. she was pts on the operating table after she was opened up to find the problem and the problem was too vast to cure.

but i reiterate i would never return a nervous, 10 yr old cat to a rescue like unwanted goods. thats cruel.

if you rehome an animal you do it for life in my book - or you dont do it at all.

SparklingSnow Fri 04-Jan-13 22:59:18

Seeker, what part is it that you are failing to understand? The OP hasn't tried anything to help the cat.

Why isn't that sinking in?

SparklingSnow Fri 04-Jan-13 23:01:38

Vicar - I think exactly the same as you. You sound like a lovely pet owner. Any animal you have/had have been blessed to have you as an owner.

Morloth Fri 04-Jan-13 23:08:02

I think killing a pet because they are inconvenient is a terrible thing to do.

However I agree with seeker. The cats I have owned would have been terribly distressed at fouling their living space, they have been without exception clean fastidious creatures.

My current cat is a particularly tidy animal, I know she would be distressed by this (hell she won't even use the litter if it is dirty - she just comes and yells at me until I clean it).

The care most pets receive now results in many of them living an unnaturally long life. Sometimes calling an end to that life is a kindness rather than a cruelty.

gordyslovesheep Fri 04-Jan-13 23:09:46

yes but Morloth would you not try and address the CAUSE of the fouling? or would you just kill the cat?

Morloth Fri 04-Jan-13 23:15:28

I would give it a go. Jess (current cat) did have a couple of accidents when we first brought her home but she settled and now appears to have some pretty lofty ideas for a critter that was living in an alley 6 months ago.

However, I wouldn't continue on for very long to be honest if the cat was continuously pooing and weeing over the house for say 6 months(ish) and we had had a look and hadn't been able to solve the problem, then yes I would kill the cat.

I will also not spend thousands of dollars in keeping a pet alive. Will do the best I can, but not repeated invasive surgery etc. The pets I have do appear to live in the moment and if the 'moment' mostly seems to consist of pain and fear and distress well then, I would want the same done for me.

seeker Fri 04-Jan-13 23:18:31

Now it may be just me, but as far as I can see, the Op posted once and not again. But from this, people seem to be able to judge that she is refusing to try any of the suggestions offered. I wonder how.

gordyslovesheep Fri 04-Jan-13 23:24:14

because she has jumped straight to 'rehome' based on her OP maybe?

anyway my 2 are curled up right here and wouldn;t be if I had PTTS when we moved here - my boy was very confused and took to pissing in the down stairs loo and my girl was bullied by a local shit cat and took to pooing on the stairs and licked herself board

VET TREATMENT plus feliway and patience cured them both - and they are happy loving pets

I just couldn't give up my responsibilities so easily

oh and I had 3 kids including an 18mth old at the time

gordyslovesheep Fri 04-Jan-13 23:24:45

bald not board!

marriedinwhite Fri 04-Jan-13 23:26:26

Ladies I am going to bed in a min. DD will come up first and snuggle beside me (DH with MIL this weekend - don't tempt me to comment about euthanasia). Midnight, the fattest thug will thump up the stairs first ( he sleeps my side and sometimes on my head - the most dog like cat known to man), Cookie the fAt placid one will thump up more quietly and settle lump like at the bottom of DH's side. Sometimes they snuggle together between us if it's v cold. Ned, the brown tabby who moved in when the babies came next door but one and who ois altogether more "oriental" than the BSH thumper toms will delicately And quietly ascend to take his place on the chair near the rad. He will get on the bed if the others aren't there, ie, if I am ill during the dat - not often at all,

Let's all have a prayer for cat's everywhere and kindness to all. We is all different, just like our animals and we can all cope with different levels of difficulty.

Night all - hope all will be happily purring soon.

Feenie Fri 04-Jan-13 23:38:29

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Morloth Fri 04-Jan-13 23:51:26

Well I don't know about HDee but I have no intention of staying alive long enough for my grandchildren to have to concern themselves with my bodily waste.

Like pets, we are now living unnaturally long lifespans. I will not be doing so. The only way that will happen to me is if I physically can't find a way to end it and I am forced to continue. My loved ones will be well aware of my feelings on the matter.

If I wouldn't subject myself to it, I am not going to subject a pet I love to it am I?

Feenie Sat 05-Jan-13 00:06:33

Well I don't know about HDee but I have no intention of staying alive long enough for my grandchildren to have to concern themselves with my bodily waste

Yeah? My mum found herself incontinent after surgery at 42 years of age.

Stupid thing to say.

My cat was 17 yo when she had to be PTS due to failing health (age related).
We got her as a 2 yo. When the DC were born she was a bit hmm and we noticed she stayed out more but didn't venture outside her garden.
If she did use a tray she sometimes missed (body was in , bum was out )

Then she started vomiting .
Not on purpose or any kind of protest, just age.

OP if you can't keep the cat then do the decent thing and have her PTS yourself.
Don't send her off to rehoming. This time of year and in the next couple of months they'll be over-run.
Not exactly bending over backwards to rehome an elderly moggy- especially as you'll have to tell them why.

seeker Sat 05-Jan-13 08:45:24

I notice people keep dodging the awkward point about animals not being able to understqnd the their psychological and/or physical pain will come to an end. And that it is utterly cruel to keep animals alive ^not knowing this^- simply because the owner is too much of a coward to face the difficult decision.

A quick,brainless fear free death is not a cruel choice. An unhappy life is.

seeker Sat 05-Jan-13 08:46:25

painless, obviously.

HazleNutt Sat 05-Jan-13 09:17:14

small children do not understand either that their pain will come to an end. I don't think that's good enough reason to kill anybody, if there are indeed options to treat instead.

Morloth Sat 05-Jan-13 09:18:39

Yes, but I assume at 42 your mum wasn't totally reliant on you to deal with it?

I would not subject an animal I love to a painful/unpleasant life because I was too gutless to make the hard decision.

I think this because I would not wish to be subjected to it myself. If you take on an animal for life, you also have to deal with their death.

I believe the OP rehoming the cat would be a death sentence for the cat, so she should bloody well take responsibility for that death herself.

HazleNutt Sat 05-Jan-13 09:29:12

If it is obvious that the poor animal would have a miserable life until the end of its days then yes it's kinder to end it. I don't see it in OPs case though. One of my cats was exactly the same, stressed because of moving and started doing her business all over - sofa, wardrobes, beds. Extremely frustrating.

She needed some help already discussed on this thread and is at the moment happily sleeping on the sofa, doing her business where she's supposed to and certainly does not seem to be suffering. No, I don't think it would have been better for her to kill her.

gordyslovesheep Sat 05-Jan-13 09:33:04

seeker I think you are comparing cheese with bicycle clips - I myself had had animals with cancer and kidney failure PTS because it was the end of their lives and they where in pain - you simply can not compare that with the OP position though

I think you are confusing caring with lazy arsed can't be bothered pet ownership

Morloth Sat 05-Jan-13 09:37:58

Does anyone actually believe that a 10 year old cat with anxiety problems and incontinence has anything to look forward to other than a cage/death if she is returned to a rescue?

Realistically?

It is a great big pile of bullshit to talk about 'rehoming' in these circumstances. If the cat doesn't stay with the OP the cat is likely dead. So if the OP really can't be arsed the 'right' thing to do is to have the cat put down.

seeker Sat 05-Jan-13 09:54:40

We don't actually know whatbthe OP has done or hasn't done. She asked for advice and hasn't been back. She may be trying everything suggested as we speak.

But 6 months is usually long enough for a cat to settle down in new surroundings. and 6 months is a very long time for a cat to be suffering the distress of not being able to keep itself and its surroundings clean- denying it's fundamental instincts.

The OP may or may not have screwed this up- but the cat is in distress. And is continuing to be in distress. That is what we have to face up to.

missmartha Sat 05-Jan-13 10:26:11

Some people just don't 'get' pets at all. No sense of responsibility for them at all.

My son's girl friends mum has been divorced for a few years and has a new boyfriend. She wants the cat to go. This is the family pet of many years but it doesn't it now doesn't go with her life style so she want it to go to the pet rescue. Son's girl friend would take the cat but lives in a 'no pet' student house a few hundred miles away.

I am horribly distressed that my son is getting involved with this family to be frank, we've always had pets (dog sitting next to me as I type) and have never thought of them as disposable.

OP should, I think, get proper advice to solve her cat's problem. It could be very simple, who knows.It's a bit soon to be thinking about euthanasia imo.

seeker Sat 05-Jan-13 10:34:48

"Some people just don't 'get' pets at all. No sense of responsibility for them at all.

Good thing there isn't anybody like that on this thread, isn't it?

gordyslovesheep Sat 05-Jan-13 10:37:30

Seeker my girl cat took about 6mths to settle WITH TREATMENT - the op hasn't treated the cat

seeker Sat 05-Jan-13 10:38:05

Why doesn't your ds's girlfriend just move into a properly where she can have the cat?

missmartha Sat 05-Jan-13 10:40:52

She can't afford one. She's a student and HAS to share a pet less property because she's skint.

seeker Sat 05-Jan-13 10:43:46

She could give up her course and get a job. Or you could take the cat.

Gordy- so you put your cat through 6 months of distress?

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Sat 05-Jan-13 11:28:08

Maybe the new boyfriend is allergic to cats and the mother has prioritized him over an animal, which is fair enough. Some people are. Though some pet-obsessed people think that an animal-fur allergy is attention-seeking and/or evidence of moral failing - which can be a bit rough on DC or new partners who are supposed to put up with the discomfort of sneezing, wheezing, skin rashes and/or regular doses of strong medication as the other family members choose to put the animal ahead of the person.

missmartha Sat 05-Jan-13 12:12:32

I could not take the cat. I have a dog, an elderly dog, and keeping a cat would distress her.
Yes you're right, she could give her course the heave ho, but as her mother chose to have a cat in the first place, it seems a bit harsh to do that.

No, mother's bf is not allergic.

PessaryPam Sat 05-Jan-13 12:15:39

The cat lovers will report you so be be very careful.

missmartha Sat 05-Jan-13 12:18:05

Oooops..

PessaryPam Sat 05-Jan-13 12:27:38

Sorry that was not aimed at you missmartha, just at the others who would not put up with 6 months of cat poo and wee with small kids in the house.

MN text reads We would like to remind you that our raison d'être is to make parents' lives easier by pooling and sharing advice and support. We ask members to respect each other's opinions even if they don't agree with them.

I have had very little respect from some posters here. I hope they all got the same warning. The OP has been comprehensively slagged off too and I feel for her.

Squirrelface Sat 05-Jan-13 16:11:59

There seems to be confusion on this thread between a cat being incontinent (ie having no control over its bladder/bowel function) and a cat which is peeing and pooing in the wrong places due to stress. It would seem that the OP's cat has the latter problem, which is much more likely to be correctable (by dealing with the causes of stress).

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