For telling 11 year old dd she can't come with us to see Les Mis?(213 Posts)
She turned 11 recently, still in primary school. Doesn't know about sex and stuff yet
From reading an American guide for parents website it seems the film shows fantine selling herself in a bit more detail (apparently it shows the man lowering her top, thrusting then leaving after paying)
Dd has friends at school who have been to see 12a films and indeed we have let her watch certain 12 dvd's (hairspray, Star Wars Harry potter etc)
Am I being a prude?
At 11 I hope that she does know the basics about sex.
more the issue is 'does she want to sit through a very long movie?'
I saw the stage show at 11 and bawled my eyes out. Sounds like the film is a bit more explicit though, which is a shame.
An 11yo doesn't know about sex? I find that pretty shocking.
She's seen the stage show.
She doesn't know about sex??
Has she never asked how babies are made?
YANBU purely based on the fact it'll be better watched without a youngster in tow.
I booked my tickets for opening night before Xmas and I can't wait.
At school in phse they have just been covering puberty and body changes. They get a tampon talk sometime next term
Sex is covered in high school
The ad has just come on again - I have goose bumps, can't wait. Hope it isn't bad.
Dd is a complete Musical theatre nut.
DD knows how babies are made but there is no way that I would knowingly allow her to watch a film which had any hint of prostitution or sexual violence.
Unless your dd has been in a cupboard I would say she knows about sex even if you think she doesn't..... the others at school will have told her or talked about it. My dd knew the basics from well before then!!
Sorry but I find your comment about 'sex is covered in high school' a bit odd.
It shouldn't be the school teaching her this. It should be you.
Age appropriate and without embarrassment.
I wish my mum had been more open.
I'm going to take my 11 year old DD next week. She knows all the basics and we've talked about prostitution before (after watching a documentary that mentioned impoverished sex-trade workers). I'm not sure it's a conversation I'd want to have in the theatre though, tbh. Perhaps you could talk about the story with her before hand?
Sex Ed including intercourse is in Y6 PHSE I think.
Puberty and Periods etc in Y5.
I don't think she has any need to know about sex just yet. She's very young in attitude.
Which is why I think the film isn't going to be suitable.
Sex is covered in primary school never mind secondary school. I'm sure they have sex ed in year 6.
Then there will be kids like my dd who know about sex, childbirth, etc by year six and tell everyone else!
Does it matter if an 11 year old knows how babies are made or not? I wouldn't let my dd watch a sexual scene at that age.
Yes I agree I cannot imagine any NT 11yo not knowing a bit about sex. How have you not had this conversation?
Not at dd's school hula. They follow their own programme. Puberty year 6. Sex year 7.
entirely up to you whether you think it is appropriate for your dd
I would think she probably knows more than you think tbh - playground talk will most likely cover it from time to time ime.
I can't believe she doesn't 'know' about sex at 11.
My sen ten year old knows about sex, I didnt think she does but after a conversation tonight I was suprised how much she did know.
In the stage show it goes a bit over their heads in lovely ladies as you don't actually see anything other than a bit if flirting.
Dd was in a show recently that had prostitutes in (but not in her scenes). She never questioned what they were (she was a lead part do had a full script)
"She's very young in attitude" are the exact words my mum used to describe my sister with when she was that age. At 13 she came home pregnant. Now I'm not saying that age appropriate safe sex knowledge would have been enough to prevent it, but it would have at least meant she knew there were options.
I find the idea that an 11 year old has had no guidance from their parent about sex really concerning actually.
At 11 they will hear allsorts in the playground, do you really want her being misinformed?
Its your job to educate your daughter about sex and puberty, not the schools. A lot of girls have already started their periods by 11, I find it shocking that you don't want her to be as informed as possible with the right information and that because its clearly something you can't speak about with her she isn't going to come to you with any questions or problems.
I think whether to take her to see this film is the least of your worries tbh.
you're doing her a favour. why would anyone want to see that?
As none of us has seen the film yet (unless one of you was on the red carpet...) we don't really know how explicit the scene is. It is also a very small part of a long film. I'd take her if she is a Musical THeatre nut.
peaceandlovebunny no need to be snitty! Clearly most people on this thread do want to see it, as do the thousands who see it atthe theatre every year. You don;t want tog o, fine. Don't snipe at those who do. Not helpful.
I do have a friend of a friend who went to the premiere (member of current west end cast). Maybe I should send her a message.
I adore Les Miserables, but certainly wouldn't take an 11 year old to see the film. It is quite a violent story line anyway, and films are always more explicit.
I think it is highly likely that your daughter knows more than you think - though she may well be misinformed in some aspects.
The imdb guide suggests the thrusting lasts less than 2 seconds so if she really does know nothing she won't have a clue what is going on as it will be gone before she notices.
If she loves musicals you are being a bit mean but obviously up to you.
Oh she'll have heard about it OP.
But very probably with all sorts of odd embellishments.
I think I heard via the whispering network when I was around nine.
Then i savoured this illicit information for a year or so before i made my mum squirm her way through an explanation (because I was a little mischief maker).
OP, if she's a musical theatre nut AND has already seen the stage show, it wouldn't have escaped her attention that Fantine is a prostitute. I would take her.
Just to echo another poster up thread, if you do decide to take her then make sure you have an open conversation with her before hand. At least then she'll know what to expect and hopefully be able to process it a bit better.
DH and I saw it on Thursday. Bloody fucking marvellous film. (we are in the States ATM).
I wouldn't take your DD. Apart from the prostitution and sex scenes, which are much more disturbing and up close in the film than the stage version, there are a couple of other scenes that are very graphic and disturbing even for me as an adult who knew the story. Don't want to say any more, spoiler alerts etc, but please do PM me if you would like more detail!
I've always been very open with dd about sex and thankfully she does feel she can talk to me about stuff.
The things she heard in the playground at primary school were a bit surprising. She's come home before now and asked me about threesomes, bum sex, blow jobs. All stuff shed heard from other kids.
I'm struggling to understand why this has become a debate about sex ed. I was a very naive child & would've felt v uncomfortable about watching anything even remotely sexual at that age, even though I had been taught about the mechanics of it all. I wasn't really ready to think about that aspect of life until I was about 14. My sister, on the other hand, was very mature for her age & would've been able to deal with it at about 9! Everyone is different & if you don't feel your DD is ready for this particular film then YANBU in stopping her seeing it.
As none of us know your DD and in all probability none of us have seen the film yet we aren't in a position to say whether you are being U or not.
You don't seem to want to take her though - so don't. It's your decision.
The other option is go see it, and if you think it's ok go again and take her with you. It's Les Mis - unless it's horrifically bad which is highly unlikely it will be worth watching twice.
That way you, as the person who knows your daughter, can make your own decision, based on knowledge of both your child and the film - instead of asking us to essentially guess based on no knowledge of either.
FWIW - I doubt very much that your daughter doesn't know anything about sex. I was told about it, in detail, at seven, so twenty seven years ago.... and I went to a naice school in a time where sex definitely wasn't on the curriculum before at least twelve. I have yet to meet a child that gets to eleven without knowing at least the basics
and probably having seen pictures.
That's really useful hearts thank you.
Aside of Samantha barks - can they sing?
I think it's fine to say she can't come with you- it is a 12A etc etc. But you can't keep brushing the sex talk under the carpet. It is so much better that she hears it from you properly than from playground whispers.
I'm already bad mummy with both dd and ds (age8) because we won't take them to see Priscilla on tour!
Well I haven't seen the film but KNOW that Hugh Jackman can. I saw him in Oklahoma a long time ago and he was magnificent. Also he won the Tony a few years ago.
Ah now Priscilla, I wouldn't take an 11 year old DD to go see. The erm, firing ping pong balls is quite a big and obvious number.
I probably wouldn't take an 11 year old to see it because it is very long.
My 4 yr old knows about sex and where babies come from though, I can't comprehend how a child can get to 11 and have no idea. Not even anything to do with emotional maturity, has she never come across a pregnant woman? Surely that's when most children ask their parents 'that' question...
Dh is a musical theatre vocal coach so I know he's going to be sitting there analysing it all!
YABU - if she's seen the stage show she will be busy comparing the two.
And at 11 she does know about sex. She just isn't likely to start chatting to you about it. It's the way of being 11.
Do ask your friend who has seen it though Op. It will be helpful. But just ask her how it was,the it explicit rather than asking your friend if she thinks it's suitable. It would put her in an awkward position if she said yes,you took your daughter and felt differently!
Lol snowtunes. Very funny though. We saw it in west end with oliver Thornton. Never laughed so much in my life.
The kids love the soundtrack but the show is def not suitable!
Can't really say if YABU or not, it's your daughter; you know her and are the only one who can make the decision.
But I am going to take my just turned 10 year old musical theatre nut. We both love the stage show and can't wait for the film (though doubt it can even begin to compare to the show). I may even take my 5 year old musical theatre nut-in-training if I can't find anyone to leave her with.
"I'm struggling to understand why this has become a debate about sex ed"
because it is quite shocking that an 11 year old would not know anything about sex.
I took my very young DD to Priscilla in the West End - it was fabulous and my DD jigged about the whole time....
She was in utero though it will be a long time before I take her to actually "see" it, although she's been listening to the music since she first developed the ability to hear.
I just want to comment on the part where you say she'll learn about sex I n high school.
I'm a trainee teacher. I taught my first sex ed lesson in October to a class of year 7s. I've had no training on how to teach sex ed, just what I've been told to teach by the citizenship coordinator.
Who do you want to teach your daughter about sex? A teacher you don't even know? Why don't you just do it.
Also, I'm fairly sure she'll know about sex by now.
My DM never talked to me about sex, nothing about periods do I was completely unprepared for either, I still resent her hugely now and I'm 40
Dont let your daughter down by assuming she's not old enough to know anything because you don't want her to be old enough !!!
Some of posts on here are taking an inch and running a mile!
Must stop MNing, am sitting in PILs living room drinking champers and am being unbelievably RUDE sitting here with the iPad whilst the others are chatting.
Can they sing???
The Hearts Verdict...
Hugh Jackman - absolutely brilliant.
Anne Hathaway - surprisingly great.
Amanda Seyfried - pretty good.
Russell Crowe - poor lamb, trying so hard, but just not keeping up with the others.
Young Cosette - very sweet indeed.
Grown up Ebonie - fab.
Marius - also fab.
Sascha Baron Cohen and Helena Bonham Carter - just hilarious.
Supporting cast - obviously cast for their voices as well as acting ability.
DH has now asked me 12 times if I am MNing, with increasing peevishness, so gotta go but will check back later in case there are more Q's
I think young code type is an ex Matilda. And grown eponine is Samantha barks who did a fab job at the O2 performance.
I dreamed a dream does found very breathy on the trailers though.
Young cosette. My iPhone doesn't like names.
No, the young Cosette is not an ex-Matilda, apparently she has not done anything before apart from school plays. I cannot wait to see it, neither can my kids although they are much older than yours. I would have taken them at 11 though, they are both obsessed with it and have been for years and I think they would have focussed on the bigger picture rather than a small sex scene!
You're resolutely not engaging because you're absolutely convinced you're doing the right thing for your dd by leaving sex ed to the school. I'm afraid world wide statistical evidence contradicts you. My 7 yrolds can process the crap they hear at school because they know the truth and know that any questions they asked will always be answered. It's never too late...
Perhaps the next musical you should take your kids to see OP is The Book Of Mormon (I'm just kidding, don't!)
That's top of dh's to see list.
He used to get cheap tickets when he worked in London through college often. Now it's harder to get down to see new stuff.
I'm not engaging because this thread is about a film not the school curriculum.
On the sex ed thing, I went to a school that had a curriculum along the lines of periods one year, drugs the next, sex the year after that (an arts boarding school). We all knew pretty much everything by age 9 (then J3?) and that was 25 years ago. Luckily my Mum, a teacher, had talked to us about sex, others were left to the playground speculation and frankly inadequate ad untimely group teaching.
I have a school friend whose Mum was really surprised when in a recent conversation it was revealed that my friend knew about sex before the school chat. She genuinely thought this girl's life was all hockey and playing the lead Little Orphan Annie.
I was at the premiere in London in Early December. The 'thrusting' clip will probably go over the top of her head. If she is of quite a sensitive nature, probably best to go and see it yourself first and then decide.
I have seen the stage show many many many times (I am connected with the London production!) and there are a lot of differences. You are not just seeing a film version of the musical. It is a totally different experience.
What stands out for me in the film is that all the musical numbers were sung live, so you really get the singing from the heart. It took many takes to do some songs, all I can say is take some tissues, and wear waterproof mascara.
Normally the music/singing for a film is recorded in a studio, and played so the actors can lip synch in time as a movie is being filmed. On Les Mis, they had ear pieces playing the backing track. What you hear is how it happened on set.
For all of you familiar with the musical you will know the barricade scene. For the film, the prop buyers sourced authentic aged 'barricade material' and told the actors to build it with as much fervour just as they would if they were building it for real. How it landed was how it stayed for the shoot. No designing!
If any of you have tickets this January for the stage show in London (lucky you, they are like gold dust!) , there is every chance you will get to see Isabelle Allen, who plays little Cosette in the film , live on stage playing the part. She is absolutely enchanting, in real life too. For a little girl who has walked two red carpets in the last month (London and NY), she is so grounded, as are her Mum and Dad. Her Dad just beams pride!
That's made me want to come and see the stage show again. We came in August during kidsweek. Dd did a workshop.
Seen it on tour years ago but there's just something special about the west end.
Pictures, of course YANBU. I won't be taking my 11 yr old either. I have no desire to show her scenes of a sexual nature, particularly those involving prostitution.
To others who want to turn this into a debate about sex education. I happen to think it's perfectly normal for Primary School children not to be the least interested in sex. Yes, some hit puberty earlier, and will no doubt have more questions, but there really are lots of very normal 10 and 11 yr olds who are perfectly capable of having friends of either sex, and just considering them mates, who think about things like sport and other hobbies, and 'going round to play', and don't have sex on the brain every minute. Yes, as little ones they will have asked about babies in tummies and got age appropriate answers, yes, as things come up in other films or programmes they watch, or on the news, they ask, and, I - for one - will answer as honestly as I can, but I'm not feeling any need to be showing them sex scenes at this age.
Oh, and if it's relevant, I have a 16 yr old and a 14 yr old that I do have age appropriate conversations with, but my 11 yr old certainly isn't interested.
BackforGood I do agree that it's perfectly normal for a 11 year old not to being interested in sex or having sexual feelings. BUT it's also perfectly normal for a 11 year old to have sexual feelings and that is where many parents like to stick their heads in the sand.
With the film opening, the demand for tickets has gone through the roof. Hardly any seats left till mid/end of January, and for weekends you're looking at the end of March
Not bad for a musical that was slated when it opened 28 years ago!
Kidsweek is a brilliant innovation running across the majority of London theatres, if you're not signed up for email alerts and like theatre, then do so. Great way to get cheap/free tickets to the major shows in the school holidays. Www.kidsweek.co.uk
I think that's a fair point Balthier, much more reasoned than some of those upthread.
I think you're very naive if you think your DD doesn't know about sex aged 11.
Or let's hope so anyway because if she doesn't know, how would she know not to engage in it and the subsequent dangers?
Also GILT is a great promotion running from January to just before feb half term. Often buy Gilt tickets as Xmas presents.
Sorry if I've missed it, but what is the official rating?
How would she know not to engage in it??!!!
I would hope there were very few opportunities for a primary school child to engage in sex. How strange.
Sorry, I have googled and found it is a 12A. Therefore YABU - an 11 year old who has seen the stage show and understands the story will probably enjoy the film.
If it is 12A there will be nothing in it to harm an 11 year old.
And some of the comments about sex ed are very odd
Well hope doesn't stop STI's and pregnancy does it?
I would hope there would be no 12yr old parents in the UK but sadly there are.
By he age of 12 children are at secondary school with generally more freedom as to where they go and who they go with
At the moment dd is taken to and collected from school/dance/ rehearsals.
The rest if the time she is home with us or occasionally invited to a schoolfriends's for a play date.
Well, if she doesn't know about sex at 11, she bloody well ought to, and it's irresponsible parenting not to make sure she does.
For goodness sake until a week ago she believed in Santa.
But how is she to handle the sex talk she'll be hearing from her peers?
How is she to make sense of that if you haven't spoken to her about it?
It's madness imo.
You can still believe in Santa and know about sex.
sex is just biology, why would you keep it some dark secret from an 11 year old?
You dont have to give her a run down on blow jobs, anal or fisting but an 11 year old should be aware and informed of the basic facts.
We are going with DS age 10. He is another musical theatre nut and adores les Mis. He knows about sex and I presume will stare at the ground/ceiling/inside of his hood for anything he would consider embarrassing. I'm a little concerned that there are other parts that he may find shocking or upsetting though. He's a sensitive soul and stuff stays with him. I will pm you HTD if that's ok?
Children should know all about how babies are made and where they come from at 6 at the latest.
<< Splutters >>
I read that the sausages were filled with this and that in a very Sweeney Todd ish way.
Oh and Yanbu to be concerned, certainly. It may well go mostly over her head, it's possible she knows far more about sex than she's letting on, it may be that this sparks a conversation where you can sensitively but matter of factly put things straight for her. Who knows? but I don't know if that would be the reason I wouldn't take her to see it.
OP, by the age of 11 I'd had my first proper snog. Have you honestly not sat down with her or if not that, given her a book about it or something? This is what my parents did as they just couldn't do the sit down talk!
Coola my daughter 'saw' Avenue Q a fortnight before she was born she seemed to enjoy it though fortunately not enough to send me into labour! (Waters breaking during puppet sex might not have pleased the cast)
I'm taking her to see Les Mis but at 7 months I don't think she'll be bothered either way. (And before anyone starts frothing we're going to a Big Scream screening)
Really pictures? Yuck. He might be ok with that. I have a sensitive stomach
You seem to want to stick your head in the sand even regarding periods, tampons etc let alone sex. Wouldn't you rather you led the discussion about this subject to guide your daughter rather than some random teacher. She will know something about sex and before long she or some of her friends may be having it.
And it's bizarre to think htwt not knowing about sex will stop you doing it!
Knowledge is power.
Also you say you don't want to engage because this isn't a thread about the school curriculum. That seems a strange attitude towards teaching your child about sex.
FYI Dd knows about periods and she told me the school nurse will be giving hem tampon samples. As a dancer when the time comes she will prob want to get used to them as soon as possible rather than towels. We soothe to her about periods a couple of years ago even though she shows no signs of hitting puberty yet
She and her friends are never without adult supervision. ( well actually I gave permission for her to leave a show rehearsal at lunchtime to go to costa but her friends wernt allowed).
But this is nothing to do with les Mis.
I dont know if yabu about the les mis as i havent seen.it but you are incredibly naive to think.an 11yr old doesnt know about sex. Ffs she could start her period soon and kids talk in the playground etc.
If she isin her last yr of primart befors high school she should be getting ready for the changes that brings ue walking ti and from school/clubs etc. Being lwft home alone or going to shops or friends etc. And she should know about sex and contraception, dont wait until she is at high school and learns it all via playground gossip (if she hasnt already!) or worse she experiments and you end up dealing with the consequences.
When I referred to caution as regards kids sensitive dispositions, I mean things like the realities of life, and , er death. Death and dying and parting is often handled in kids films almost lightheartedly : Charlottes Web, Up, Toy Story, W ship down etc etc, but if it is played out in all seriousness for a mature audience, it may upset some younger movie goers. And the acting is bloody good. Every adult that was at the premier was bawling. Sensitive kids may struggle to process what is being acted out
I don't understand that in the 21st century an 11 year old knows nothing about sex.
It's not up to the school, it's up to you. Buy her a book if you're uncomfortable with it.
And, though I've never seen Le Mis, surely, even in the stage production she knows she's a prostitute? Have you explained that to her?
I wish she could walk from school to dance as at the moment I have to leave work early to escort her and her 3 friends. But school don't allow it.
She is never left home alone as there is never any opportunity to do so. There are no local shops within safe walking distance.
The show dd was in recently her character actually died at the end if act one (and most of the audience cried) so I think she'd handle that.
If you have covered with her about periods then surely you told her what they are and why they happen? Or does she think she will just have a random bleed every few weeks?
It was mostly dh who told her. Just that girls bleed from their front bottom and its a sign of growing up and means they produce eggs that can grow into babies when you are grown up. That's all.
"Front bottom"? Really?
That's what she chooses to describe it. I did tell her it's proper name but front bottom to her describes where it is.
Your dh told her she will bleed from.her 'front bottom' ffs.
Your family sounds very strange and a bit unhealthy
OP, if you want to bring it back to musicals, cough, erm, Spring Awakening anybody?
What happened a lot in my school was that the 12 and 13 year olds whos parents didn't tell them about sex then trusted the first 'grown up' who did talk to them about it (usually a 16/17 yo), hence a lot of them becoming parents or having abortions by the age of 14.
They just weren't equipped to handle the feelings and what was happening and could easily be talked round and were told the rights and wrongs of the situation by someone who didn't have their best interests at heart.
You are leaving your poor daughter ill equipped to cope with something that will be a massive part of her life.
Compare the Revolting Children scene in Matilda to Spring Awajening. Definate references there I think
Only seen an amateur version of SA.
I just want to say, make sure your daughter knows all the proper names for the female genitalia. My parents never told me or explained to me when I was growing up and as a result, was quite 'scared' of my sexuality and female genitals. Was 16 when I learnt (myself) all the proper names. Just saying, you don't want your daughter to end up like I did because my parents didn't want to discuss anything that might be deemed 'sexual' to me.
I'm an American who has read the unabridged book in English, seen the stage musical, and saw the film last night. There are several graphic and explicit scenes which would not be appropriate for an eleven year old. For example, there's mention of sausages made from cat.
I was taken to see Annie Hall at six by my much older sister. The only thing I remembered from it was how babyish Diane Keaton was for being afraid of a spider on the toilet seat.
Don't worry. Dd won't be reaching the age Wedla was without a bit more knowledge.
Snowtunes - indeed.
Pictures - take her. Don't let this put you off. I don't think it will be half what you think it is. If the most it does is instigate a conversation then that's maybe not such a bad thing?
not only are you using twee little words like front bottom but you are misinforming the girl as well.
Tell your oh that she was born with her eggs and periods are not a sign she is now producing them as they were always there.
Educate yourselves and then educate your daughter.
My Mum would never use the word period...they were known as 'the other things'.
I swear to god if it wasn't for my older sisters I would have known nothing about sex or periods.
But that was during the 70's where an 11yr old might occasionally happen across a porn mag in the park...or being passed round by giggling friends.
This is nearly 2013 where hardcore nasty porn is at the fingertips of everyone, including children and their peers with mobile phones.
Imo it's irresponsible to not arm them with the facts of life and to at least use adult words to describe genitalia.
You may already have one very confused little girl who's too awkward to speak to you about what she's heard from her peers, because she doesn't want to make her parents feel awkward.
WorraLorraTurkey Yes. Due to the fact that my parents didn't ever want to discuss anything that might be deemed as 'sexual' to me, I was very uneducated and very very scared of sex (and I didn't have older sisters to help me). I had to go through that and coming to terms that all on my own and wouldn't want to wish it on any other child. It's so so SO important that parents talk to their children about body changes, body parts, sex etc because not doing so can lead to some very sexually confused and frightened young adults. And the earlier the better.
OP - do you have religious reasons for not talking to your DD about sex?
She needs to know a lot more than she will 'bleed from her front bottom and eggs turn into babies'. I'm sure you think you are doing the right thing keeping her 'innocent' but you aren't - you are making her vulnerable to playground bullshit.
It's only a movie, it doesn't cost the earth - just go first then decide if it's suitable for her or not <shrug>
Exactly Baltheir I found myself (during my later teen years..18-19) saying 'yes' to sleeping with one or two boyfriends purely because I was too embarrassed to say "Hold on a moment...let's slow down I'm not quite ready yet".
I didn't have the confidence because I was so embarrassed about sex and talking about it.
I promised myself that sex would never be a taboo issue with my 3 kids and it never has been. I used to watch wildlife programmes with them when they were only 4 or 5yrs old and they'd 'get' how animals reproduced.
Explaining how humans do the same thing was just a tiny step and one they took in their stride.
Worra, your posts are so reminiscent of my parents idea of SexEd.
And yes, I also slept with blokes because I didn't know how to say no.
I've made sure with ds that he'll never be the person I was.
How much is a "a bit more knowledge"? And Wendla is 14 in Spring Awakening. That really isn't that far off.
I'm afraid I have to agree that it's irresponsible not to inform an 11 year old about sex these days. It is extremely easy to be misinformed from other sources. When I was 12, there were girls in my class who were already having sex. Just because you're not telling her about it, it doesn't mean it's not happening.
I also have to wonder if you have sheltered your DD if she truly believed in Santa up until last week.
I think at 11 she should be able to handle it. Like everyone else has said, I would imagine she already knows about sex and if she doesn't, she should. The sex scene will not be graphic and at 11 if my daughter asked for clarification, I would give it to her.
The film looks to be good and she's seen the stage show. Either watch it before you take her to vet it as it's entirely up to you or take her and let her indulge in her musical theatre side.
I am planning to see the film tomorrow (in the US), so I can give a more informed opinion then. Very much looking forward to it! From what I've seen and read so far, I wouldn't think the film should be too much for an 11-year-old, especially if she is already familiar with the stage version.
BTW, what on earth does she think is going on in the scenes with the prostitutes if she knows nothing about sex? The lyrics are about as clear as they could be: "Poor men, rich men, leaders of the land/See them with their trousers off they're never quite as grand/All it takes is money in your hand," etc.
I cannot imagine leaving an 11-year-old completely in the dark about sex. Honestly, I never thought that any reasonably informed parent would delegate teaching about this important subject to the schools. It has nothing to do with whether or not a child is going through puberty and/or having sexual feelings of his/her own, as a poster suggested above. It is about being aware of the very basic facts of life. I can't imagine any child reaching the age of 11 without asking questions about reproduction. And I see no reason to be coy about the mechanics involved. I knew the basic information as a very young child, by age 4 or so, certainly before starting school.
My mother wasn't very good at discussing anything beyond biology, bless her. So we didn't have any real discussions about the emotional side of things. But ideally, both the basic facts and the emotional element of sexuality should be part of an ongoing conversation between parents and children, IMO, with the emotional stuff being raised later and the factual info earlier.
Assuming that one or more of the girls that the OPs DD is allowed to socialise with (but never unsupervised ) has an older sibling, it is almost certain that the girls will be talking about sex with each other. It maybe in the toilets during a rehearsal, it might be while you think they are playing with Sylvanian Families in their bedrooms, it might be in the school playground.
Children with older siblings introduced the subject of sex to their classmates in yr2 in my DDs school .
I've seen it. Sorry Hearts, I thought Hugh Jackman was bloody awful. The relentless close -up filming makes you dizzy, it is definitely a very different experience from the stage musical (which is fair enough). The level of detail in the scabs, sores, pus, phlegm, spit and shit is pretty nauseating too. I can't quite think how the prostitution scene would have affected me at 11- there's no full on nudity- but the whole film is something of a harrowing experience (OK, not Schindler's List-harrowing, but certainly more than Oliver!, even taking the bludgeoning of Nancy into account). If you do take her, please let us know what both of you thought.
I'm gobsmacked that an 11 year old has never been without adult supervision!!!
you havn't told her about sex at 11 and leaving it up to the school and they havn't covered it yet at her school are you in the UK because my dds got the full works in primary ,
I can imagine the scene is very quick and she wont see anything if it is ok for a 12 yr old it would be fine for an 11 year old imo but it really is up to you if you dont want her to go then dont take her
FRONT BOTTOM sorry i read on OP please arm your dd with more information than front bottom if you cant speak to her get her a blooming book you are being unfair on her imo
I told ds very young, about four, including the proper names for everything. Part of the reason I did this is because in my line of work I regularly come across paedophile cases and so often the crimes took place years ago but the victims weren't able to disclose it until they're adults. I want to make sure I have an extremely open relationship with my son when it comes to talking about sex so that if he was ever abused he would know what was happening was wrong, he would be able to describe it and could tell me straight away. He knows that only adults have sex and that adults and other children don't touch each other in certain ways. If your daughter was abused, how would she know what was happening and that was happening was wrong?
OP what if your DD is ill that day it is covered, or starts skipping school, family hoilday.
I can remember the sex talk in school, everyone was laughing and joking about and i don't think i even heard a word the teacher said ( my mum told me all about sex so it didn't matter for me)
Yes...front bottom...?? WTF? What a weird and screwed up family this sounds like. And as a teacher in a lovely indie secondary school where you might imagine that children might be a little more 'sheltered' I can tell you that sex talk is common and that she knows/will have heard about much more than you think. Don't let ignorant playground gossip be her education - this is YOUR job and it seems that you are too embarrassed to do it.
Anyone who uses the term 'front bottom' to their almost pubescent daughter is frankly very strange...and the fact that your husband uses it too is even weirder!! Were you too embarrassed to have the period talk with her which is why he did it?
Oh and as another poster said, learn about anatomy and get your facts straight otherwise maybe you are better leaving it to her Bio teacher.
Like mrsjay's idea that you get her a book actually - there must be lots of decent ones about and that will spare your blushes as it were if you are not up to the job.
You are doing your dd a disservice by not speaking to her straight forwardly about sexual matters. Whether you believe it or not 11 year olds discuss sex in playgrounds etc. And if she can't ask you without embarrassment what is true or not etc then she'll find out from someone else. ..
I've had conversation with 11 yr old recently who believed, from playground, that you couldn't't get pregnant first time having sex. ..
Kids these days have access to masses of info on sexual things which go drom factual to nonsense to porn. You need to ensure she can ask you anything without you having made her feel she can't raise' embarrassing' issues with you.
And given your opinions from posts it may actually be very difficult for you to move to where she can have those conversations with you. ..
MYeldest dd would rather stick pins in her eyes than listen to a sex talk but she needed to know so I got her some leaflets from the local health board( as it was at the time) really informative and saved her and my blushes cos tbh I am a little bit of a prude as well and we spoke about it that way,
I saw this with my 10 year old son a couple of days ago. We both really enjoyed it. The sex scene is a very small part of the film, and I suspect, went over his head a little. But the film is graphically violent in parts so probably not suitable for a sensitive child.
The music is of course fabulous. I am a die-hard fan of the stage version, and to be honest would prefer to see the stage show again rather than the film.
Even in 70s in catholic school in ireland we were talking about sex. . Please talk to her. Knowing about your body is not a bad thing and doesn't't mean growing up too soon, it means more chance of growing up confident.
I took my 13 and 9 year old to see American Idiot the musical before Xmas <Green Day nuts rather than musical theatre nuts>. It was very explicit. I was a bit shocked. I don't think it caused any damage though. DS2 is definitely one of those well informed younger siblings .
I thought American Idiot had a 16 and over age thing thats why we didnt go because dd2 is only 14 i am now
I'd be utterly amazed if a Y6 didn't know about sex.
She probably won't have done it formally in school, that tends to be after SATs (DD2 seems never to have done it at all, but DD1 did and Her DFs' school does it quite explicitly).
However, the talk in the playground will go far beyond anything they officially learn.
I think the best advice so far has come from CoolYuleA. See it yourself first and then make the decision whether or not to go again with your DD. After all you know her best and will be in the best position to make the decision when you know what the content it.
I would say the same about the "knowing about sex", i.e. that you know her best. However, I do strongly doubt that she knows as little as you think at 11 and I personally made sure I was the one who told my DD the basics when she was about 7 because I wanted to make sure she got the right version rather than the garbled version that I got from othr kids when I was about that age.
I don't understand why you posted on AIBU as you seem fairly determined to not take her. That's fine, if that's what you want, but you should accept that most other people would think it to be a strange decision.
MrsJay - I didn't see an age rating, and I think I was a bit more complacent than I would normally be, about reading the parental guidance advice, because it was a stage show rather than a movie . There was a simulated sex scene which was looooooong and lots of drug taking. I was ok with my 13 year old seeing it, but felt a bit slack in relation to my 9 year old. There were quite a lot of young teens in the audience.
Anyway, their review was "it was good, but not as good as a Green Day concert". So don't feel too .
I posted because I do actually want to take her to see it but from reading more I do feel it so t be suitable.
I'm very squeamish myself (am on with blood but a bit of an emetophobe) so might be watching through my hands in places myself it seems.
Oddly enough none of her friends have older siblings. There is one girl she dances with who has older brothers. The others are all only children, twins or the oldest child.
What's so strange about an 11 year old child saying front bottom? I don't think I knew the proper words at 11 :s (and I went on to do a midwifery degree).
Only pictures knows what is appropriate for her daughter. I wasn't ready to find out about sex in year 6 when we did (I actually pulled a sicky that day), but I was ready in year 7 when we did it again. Doesn't mean I got pregnant at 13!
Yes sex ed is important, but I feel if your 11 yr old is engaging in sexual activity then you have a whole heap of other problems that sex ed isn't going to help.
I know a midwife that says front bottom.
In my world that would be a strike-offable offence!
milf90 how can you say that sex ed won't help if a young person is engaging in sexual activity?! Whether it will stop them or not isn't even the point, what about protection from pregnancy and stds?
OP, I don't know whether the film will be suitable for your DD. Even if she knows about sex, that doesn't mean that sexual content in a film will be suitable for her. But please teach her about sex, get a book if you have to, it's really important. Whether she's interested in it yet or not, it's a basic fact of life that she should be aware of.
Great post by milf90, and well done to Pictures for not losing her rag with all the posters being so rude about her parenting, in terms of sex education, when she actually came on to ask opinions about seeing a film.
I happened to be in the corridor at school when my ds and his class came out from one of their sex education lessons in Yr6 - they were horrified . As a cohort, they weren't talking about sex, aged 10 and 11, nor were my older dd's friends, and nor are dd2 (no in Yr6) and her friends. Indeed, nor was I in Primary school. Perhaps you shouldn't judge everybody by your own experience, clearly there are other people in the world with different experiences. I find it amazing that some people on here, profess to know more about the OP's dd's interests and subjects of conversation than the OP does ~ how can that be then ?
I'm not some wierd, prudish, head in the sand, over protective mother, as I doubt that Pictures is either. Indeed, if you want to do a 'search' on me you'll find I was commenting on watching Dirty Dancing with dd2 on a thread last week, talking about talking with her about the fact the dancer has the abortion. We talk about things as thy come up in our house - on the news, in films or TV progs, re what's happening to other people we know, and sometimes, I'll talk about "a friend" or - for example - the fictitious dd or ds of a colleague so we can all talk about subjects that might be more easily aired in a 'one step removed' way rather than talking about themself way. But seriously, you need to get to know a wider range of 10 and 11 yr olds if you really think they, as a whole cohort, have nothing better to occupy their minds than sex.
My son had no interest on need to learn algebra as at 11 he had no interest in knowing how spacecraft orbit the earth but he still needs to learn how it works.
It is the same with sex ed. You might not being doing it but you should how how works. It is called educating your child.
And when she is a little older she will be educated.
So in the mean time you leave her in ignorance of how her body is changing and leave her at a stage where she could believe rubbish as you have not told her the truth?
If the OP doesn't want her daughter to see Les Mis, that's fine - her child, her choice.
But if she thinks that her daughter has got to 11 without any knowledge or curiousity about sex, either a) her daughter is exceptional or b) she is kidding herself. BackforGood, the fact that your son and his friends were horrified coming out of a lesson doesn't mean they hadn't either discussed it furtively or looked it up/stumbled across it accidently on the internet.
I am not judging OP's parenting in the slightest, but given the relative probabilities of having an 11 year old daughter who knows nothing, has never stumnled across anything and has no interest in finding out about sex against one who has, who may well have a high degree of misinformation and could also internalise the parental unwillingness to discuss sex in ways which may be unhealthy in the future (such as not feeling comfortable establishing boundaries with prospective sexual partners)... well I know the option I'd pick.
I am slightly concerned that the OP hasn't discussed periods with her daughter (who could easily have started or be about to) herself but has seemed to leave it to a partner who appears to be male. I think it's great that men can discuss such things with their daughters. However starting your periods is often confusing and sometimes unpleasant for girls and I think it's important that you know you can speak to your mum or another adult woman you're close to - men don't experience it directly after all. If you haven't shown that you're willing to talk about it, how can you show that you'll be willing to listen, answer questions etc.
For what it's worth I am hugely private about sex and body matters and never displayed any curiousity in front of my parents. But I knew that they and my older sisters were there if I had any questions to ask, and because they brought it up as a topic from time to time I also knew it wasn't shameful.
Pictures, how much older is " a little"?
I've seen the film (perks of my job) and I wouldn't recommend for your daughter. it's very gritty re the prostitution and your daughter would definitely have questions afterwards.
it's an amazing film, though so book a babysitter and go.
dh wanted to take our son, who is rather streetwise, but I said no. D's has been to see lots of 12a films but this one is def not for him.
op if you dont think the film is appropriate then dont take her simple as.
I dont have an 11 yr old my daughter is 3 so i havenoidea how i would feel,but i imagine i would go with my gut instinct whatever that is.
I have spent a lifetime dealing with the consequences of a parent like the op
OP you are doing your daughter a huge disservice.
Jessie I know what you mean about the "relentless close-up filming" - a lot of it showed some brilliant acting, but it did make me a bit dizzy sometimes. There are a lot of comments about it. Apparently it is one of the trademarks of this director, he really likes to get up close and personal with the actors.
Sorry you don't agree about Hugh Jackman... I love him so might be a bit biased about his voice....
Turned 11 and doesn't know about sex. I am quite old fashioned but even I think it is past high time she did. You've let her watch Harry Potter. About that particular film though. I haven't seen it so of course it's hard to judge.
Hearts, I should actually admit that I though HJ's acting was great, and he looked fab, but for me his voice just wasn't up to it and it came as a shock as I know he's an experienced musical theatre performer. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about though- if the poster whose husband is a voice coach is out there and he has now seen it, tell us what he thought!
It was a real relief for my ears when Marius and co came on and we got some lovely clear tenor voices. I was interested to see what another poster said about the barricade being built by the actors themselves, because it was surprisingly small after the huge stage version (the CGI ship at the start on the other hand was incredible).
Dd has since initiated conversations with me about periods (dh speaking to her was a couple of years ago in response to something she said to him that she had overheard.
She has seen my tsmpons and she has talked to me about the body change stuff she has covered at school. I have said to her that as a serious dancer she will probably want to learn to be comfortable with them as soon as possible after she starts.
Dh has studied puberty in girls in relation to his job but only in do far as how the onset of puberty physically affects girls voices. (They undergo change in the same way as boys just no where near as marked as a boys voice 'breaking'. He can often tell by listening to a girl sing whether she has started or is likely to soon start her periods( though of course it doesn't always follow the same pattern)
She is desperate for a bra poor love but is very undeveloped.
I'm interested to know who the vocal coaches were. I read somewhere that sacha baton Cohen went to the head of bounce at RAM (I'm guessing they mean Mary Hammond on the MT side). Fabulous teacher.
Wonder if they used any others.
Ah, OP, I hadn't realised it was you whose DH was the vocal coach!
Re the bra, I remember asking my Mum if I could have one (all my schoolmates did, I was a late developer) and her instant response was a disparaging "but you've no got anything tae put in it!" I am sure you have been much more tactful
We compromise with crop tops.
This is a wind up. I can't believe someone thinks their NT 11yo shouldn't know the truth about how babies are made.
I reckon the girl knows about sixteen versions of the truth, and when she hears the real thing in school or from parents, she will spend ages trying to sift thru all the strange mistruths she's been told by peers over the years, to figure out where any true information lies; she'll be even more confused by not knowing which source to rely on. She knows for sure how much adults like to omit so she knows for sure how unreliable they are as complete info source. But don't worry, her friends will fill in the gaps. Like when they tell her "You can't get pregnant the first time, it's a fact, honest". And loads of other useful "facts" like that.
Main vocal coach was Claire Underwood.
Your husband must be some sort of puberty diviner and will be able to pinpoint the very day she starts her periods by her tone of voice when she asks for breakfast one day. It's truly miraculous.
But the start of a girls puberty is not when she gets her first period. Puberty would have started around 2 years before she has her first period.
Looks like you and your husband need to educate yourselves as well as your daughter.
I don't think that's going to happen as she does not need to know yet. Apparently.
Don't be silly of course it's not that simplistic but there are indications. The book changing voices by Deirdre trundle is very good.
I would educate yourself more accurately about puberty and worry less about voice changes.
As knowing about the voice pays our bills he'll stick to that thanks.
Just catching up, and trying to fathom the meaning of an earlier post:
"There are several graphic and explicit scenes which would not be appropriate for an eleven year old. For example, there's mention of sausages made from cat."
Was this a joke?
Sausages made from cats is all in context, just as soup made from bats and porridge made from nasty things in Roald Dahl film adaptations are.
I just can't imagine an 11 year old being remotely bothered by that, except perhaps saying "yuck" - I have a 10 and 12 year old, they would laugh in my face if I said that was unsuitable for them. I guess there are some much sweeter more sensitive children around.
That poster was from America. I go on us based dance teacher websites. They make me look totally permissive. It seems they are a lot more conservative in the US.
For example they are horrified at people who allow children to listen to sings with the words ass or sexy in them.
A parents film guide says they show thenardier chopping off a cats tail ( though not graphically. Maybe that's what they are referring to.
Off topic, but, i'm just wondering about the people posting in this thread, what are your favourite musicals?
But I can think of worse lyrics in master if the house!
Where do I start?
My personal favourites are Sweeney Todd, Hair, Sunday in the Park with George, Cabaret and My Fair Lady
All time favourite I think is Wicked or Matilda
Comedy has to be Legally Blonde
Fun night out Priscilla
Classic spine tinglers Les Mis & Miss Saigon
Old classics South Pacific, Sound of Music,
Really wish I'd seen 13.
Ghost was good and done good songs but wouldn't necessarily see it again.
Lion king amazing staging
And a little known Musicsl from which my username comes from is Her Benny.
Apart from Les Mis, Billy Elliot, and the permanent production on of Starlight Express.
One of the worst has to be Viva Forever, currently playing. It's up there with Cliff Richard the musical for biggest pile of cak ever staged.
Why would your vocal coach DH even need to know when the girls he coaches start their period? And more to the point, how would he know? I've always been open regards talking about my body and sex, but doubt it'd be a conversation I'd have with a male teacher.
And if you think your DD isn't already curious about her body and sex then you're frankly delusional.
I think it sounds a bit yeew that your vocal coach dh feels he knows when young girls are starting their periods.
Why would he mention or think such a thing?
Surely that's not within the remit of his job?
How can he tell? I am fascinated!
I am as to OP considering whether prostitution is a suitable subject for her 11 year old dd; for whom she doesn't think puberty and sex ed is suitable.....
Yy skip the factual inevitable biology and facts and skip straight to sexual exploitation and abuse of women
You asked OP, whether the prostitution is suitable for your dd....whether it is or isn't is dependant on your dd. It is completely relevant to answering you, that you are with holding information from your dd
I think it's an indication of your husbands experience and skill that he is able to detect the hormonal changes that are apparent in the voice. There is voice dessemination and detection software used worldwide by forensic professionals, but it is possible for those with sensitive hearing to detect minute changes.
I love Oliver! Mary Poppins, My Fair Lady, Evita, Anything Goes, 42nd Street, Hello Dolly, anything with tap dancing in it ( tap dancing Klansmen in Jerry Springer the Opera was a highlight). I was very sceptical about Billy Elliot but it was fabulous. Agree Legally Blonde was terrific. Hate Phantom, Cats, Starlight Express, Sweeney Todd, was disappointed by Wicked after so much hype. Les Mis has always been in the meh middle ground for me tbh, I enjoyed the staging of it though, perhaps that's why the film didn't really do it for me.
Where has the OP said he discusses young girls periods with them? Some of you seem intent on pulling the OP to pieces.
A vocal coach who can predict or judge whether a youngsters voice is likely to imminently lower, or change ( as many do, both girls and boys, with puberty).
For instance, some of the children cast in Les Mis were chosen 6-9 months ahead of filming. If one of them were likely to have a change in their voice, then a re-think is needed.
For instance, Isabelle Allen who plays young Cosette, will not have her angelic voice for a lot longer. Her voice is pure and childlike now, but will change in adolescence, and as we all now, that can happen from as young as 7/8/9...
OP, I know your DH is a vocal coach but with regards puberty and periods and voice change, that's a load of shit. I got my periods when I was 10 and my voice didn't change til I was 13. That's when I went from being a soprano to mezzo and then later on when it all levelled out I found out I was a mezzo with dramatic belt so I can reach Queen of the Night aria notes but it's not where I'm most comfortable.
And what no Parade?
It's relevant because girls going through puberty have to be careful. They often lose vocal range and develop a breathy quality. Breathiness can also be an indication the vocal folds arnt closing properly which can lead to damage. Then there is the issue of belting or not. In boys it's much more apparent and when a boys voice is breaking they are often more careful but the same things happen with girls
Of course he is much much more knowledgable than I am. At the moment he doesn't work with children much only post 16s. He works with students training for a career in Musical heatre.
OP, you're dodging here. Vocal change is NOT a sign of impending menarche.
Also you have to tembervtgatvehstvu day is just little bits I've picked up. There
May be bits where I have got the wrong end of the stick. Dh has studied intensively and the area is being researched further all the time.
some reading material here for those of you 'fascinated' by the changes by that puberty ay have on the voice of a young child.
One of the oddest MN threads ever.
OP, I think upthread you said you were going to talk to you DD a little bit later but didn't quantify it.
How long do you think you are going to be able to delay this and aren't you worried that someone is going to misinform her?
Don't know why OP didn't just start a thread in chat to discuss Les Mis/ musicals etc etc in general....she absolutely does not want to discuss whether it is suitable for her dd
Yes I did. It was others who diverted the conversation.
I received done advice from those who have seen the film (as opposed to me reading guidance from an American parents film website) which was very useful and affirmed my original position by drawing my attention to other aspects of the film.
I started off wanting to be told iwbu (i enjoy taking dd to things) and it would go over her head. It seems not.
I think you should do what you think best in terms of the film; you know your daughter.
In terms of sex ed, I'd personally have a chat with her. Before secondary. My ds1 is 12, August 28th birthday so in year 8. He knows A LOT more than I expected since starting secondary, and he knew the "mechanics" by year 6. I also have a five month old, and he was quite "Oh God. Yuk" when he found out I was pregnant!
erica sod the prostitution,death,poverty, violence portrayed in the film.......there is NO WAY I'd take my 11yr old to see a film that shows sausages made from CATS!!!........nuts!
Seriously though I had an interesting chat at dinner with my 14yr old son and just 12yr old daughter about Aids/HIV and was shocked that they hadn't been told about how it is transmitted in their sex ed classes. Put them straight and there followed a fascinating conversation where thy listed all sorts of STDs, and told me that condoms make great balloons too!!!
Sex chats with you children should be factual, matter of fact and a little bit humorous, it's your duty as a parent to educate them about life and really it's not that embarrassing.
To go back to the original question.
I'll let you know what it's like. I've an 111.6 DD, we were going to see that yesterday, but didn't. Since it's the only thing showing at the cinema with easiest parking apart from Malay/Chinese films it is a no brainer.
I am not keen, I still remember the disappointment and confusion I felt when Evita didn't have a single word of spoken dialogue.
I think my DD would get a bit restless. It's very long.
Your DD is having a lucky escape, Les Mis is exactly what it says on the tin-fucking miserable. Take her to see a feelgood film FFS
ripsishere!? A 111.6 DD? How old are you?
ripsishere, not true. Evita says instead of sings: Yes, oh yes in reply to Peron's question are you on your own. <Dons geek hat>
And what did you expect? It's a throughsung musical.
Evita not a favourite. In fact I can take or leave most ALW.
Sunset is pretty good though as is By Jeeves but then the latter has a script by Ayckbourn.
that is so interesting about the changes in female voices wrt puberty. Dd is 12 and has started singing lessons. I am wondering now if this is a bad time to do it after reading that link. What does your dh think about it OP? Does he prefer to wait till they are about 15 or 16?
also can anyone explain to me why you cannot talk about altos at this age? According to the article girls voices are either light or rich soprano but not alto. I don't understand this because from the very first words my toddler spoke even I could tell straight off her speaking voice was alto. So is a speaking voice alto but the singing voice different - rich soprano then presumably.
Obviously I know nothing about singing, can anyone explain it?
No it's fine to start lessons at 12. He prefers post 16 purely because he woks best with that age group (like done teachers work best with younger children) and he works in a very technical way with serious vocational students mostly (often dancers who are training full time)
The main thing in my mind is that some girls lose confidence at this age because these changes/ loss of range make them think they are rubbish. Some girls sail through it, others take longer.
When speaking or singing in "speech quality" your larynx is set up in a different way than when dinging in for example "opera quality". If you think about it it makes sense something has to be different to make the different sounds
We all have an " attractor" set up that feels most natural to us it doesn't mean that we can't learn to make changes to access a higher range or different vocal quality.
I see, thank you very much , that was very helpful.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.