To make dh choose-me or his mother?

(238 Posts)
ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 16:18:08

11 years ago when I was 18 and very silly dh (then dp) persuaded me to get an £8000 loan out for his mum as she had a bad credit rating but needed one to pay loan sharks.
Being silly and in love I did and she refused to make the repayments, dh and I split up and I had to raise dd1 with virtually no money as I had to pay the loan.I went to small claims court and mil had to pay it back (but it took years.

We now have 4 dcs and the money situation with dhs family worse than ever.dhs brother owes us 200 pounds his sister 390 pounds, his mum has borrowed here there and everywhere from dh-how much I don't know as its all so secretive.dh works for his brother and some weeks does not get all his wages.I am in control of all the bills now as I cannot trust him and we have no money Iam really struggling and we never have treats and it is really difficult.

Dh family on the other hand ALWAYS have nice stuff-hair/nails done, sil planning a huge expensive wedding for next year and a honeymoon yet she won't pay back what she owes us? I keep asking and texting and phoning even 5 pounds a week as thatd buy a pack of nappies I'm that desperate but they ignore me.

The last straw came today when we got a debt recovery letter for dh.his mum had opened a catalogue in his name (from when he lived at home) had not paid it so now we have got the letter.I have always paid my bills and don't want to be blacklisted.

I asked dh to phone mil as its her debt she has to pay.He lost his temper saying he will not fall out with his family no matter how much they owe us.

I tried to reason with him saying that because of them me and the dcs are going without its just not fair but he will not tell his mum to pay he says she has no money etc etc.but WE have no money I cannot make him see that they are taking the piss out of him.

I'm so angry I told him to choose me and dcs or his family I can't do this any more.

He said Iam out of order making him choose and trying to tell him he can't be friends with his family he cannot see that they are just using him and he would rather see his wife and kids go without.

RedHelenB Fri 28-Dec-12 16:20:40

Think he's made his choice already, I'm sorry to say.

rubyslippers Fri 28-Dec-12 16:21:42

Actually I think you're right

His primary responsibility is to you and your children

Also, isn't it fraud for his mum to open an account at your address?

Get some legal advice pronto

He's demonstrated he won't change and puts his extended family's needs above yours continuously

BuggerLumpsAnnoyed Fri 28-Dec-12 16:23:22

I couldn't live that way. YANBU

SugaricePlumFairy Fri 28-Dec-12 16:24:06

Sorry but you will always come second to them.

Look out for your children yourself, you'll have nothing if it's left to him.

I'm sorry you're in this situation.

Did you post about this before? Something about claiming back the ppi?

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 16:25:08

She opened it a couple of years ago when he was living with her he didn't even know but he isn't angry with her.

I've tried and tried with him so many times we got married this year but his family keep borrowing/taking money I cannot do it anymore he will not stick up for me and dcs and we are going without so much as have no money.

He actually said how out of order I am being saying that they have to pay us back/pay this latest bill.

I think he is a conplete doormat

quoteunquote Fri 28-Dec-12 16:25:09

his mum had opened a catalogue in his name (from when he lived at home) had not paid it so now we have got the letter

Fraud, report to the police, phone 101.

You have to separate from this, or you will be funding them forever,

Your husband needs to decide if he wants to come with you,

if his family decide to cut contact with him because he won't bank roll them, then they don't love him anyway. They are just using him, he may not be able to face that.

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 16:26:44

Yes I have posted before I claimed back the ppi on the loan.

It doesn't ever get any better I feel like I'm banging my head againsta wall I can't make him see how they are taking advantage sad

SugaricePlumFairy Fri 28-Dec-12 16:29:00

Your H is a tool.

He will drag you down, you'll have to be ruthless as he will never stand up to them.

milf90 Fri 28-Dec-12 16:32:20

YANBU, continue with your ultimatum, its the only way you are either 1. going to make him see sense or 2. get your life/money back on track!

its sad to think you have to do this, but do you really want to be with someone who always puts you second behind his family?

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 16:33:46

I thought I had been ruthless I had even taken his bank card off him and I was in complete control of finances or so I thought.

He got another credit card though and used that.

Now this latest catalogue bill.Everytime I tell him to phone his mum/sister/brother to ask about paying us back he gets cross with me and if I do it myself he gets annoyed.Why should I go without to fund their lifestyle.

I think I hate them all.Iam so upset

She sounds like a nightmare, he really needs to grow a pair.

I agree with sugarice except I'll change it to they will both drag you down. What sort of person does that to their son. I'm not sure what you can do though if he's not willing to see her for what she is.

VBisme Fri 28-Dec-12 16:35:41

Utterly horrified that a mother could do that to her child.

You need to get away from them, if that means your DH as well then I think thats what you have to do.

izzyizin Fri 28-Dec-12 16:38:21

It sounds as if you will be a lot better off financially without your dh and his freeloading family.

You've given him a choice and all you can now is stand firm and take it on the chin if he decides to put his other relatives above you and the dc.

Given the sums of money you've mentioned, YANBU and your dh has had plenty of opportunity to put an end to the liberties his family have taken with your joint finances.

It could be that if you send him off to live with his family he'll see the error of his ways, particularly if he's got debt collectors hounding him for his dm's mail order bill which, if it's in his name, will be his sole responsibility and you set the CSA on him for child support.

Why not report your post and ask mumsnet to move it to the Relationships board where you'll get excellent advice on dealing with your dh and what your various financial/benefit entitlements are likely to be

diddl Fri 28-Dec-12 16:38:28

It does sound as if he has made his choice, doesn´t it?

I mean let´s face it, what´s changed since you were 18??

forthesakeofoldQODsyne Fri 28-Dec-12 16:42:07

You've posted about this sort of behaviour before? I do remember the ppi bit

Toxic rotten family, he needs to choose, actually, YOU need to choose.

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 16:42:46

I have tried for so long to sort this all out but he will not change.

I just want to be a normal family Iam not bothered about not having much money I was quite happy to muddle along with what we have pay the bills and make the best of things but I've cut back time and time again because of his family taking money and not paying back and now I've had enough.I was so pleased when we got married he PROMISED that was the end of it.

What on earth will I do though if he goes I won't cope dcs all have a genetic condition and can be very poorly at times but I can't continue like this I feel distraught and so let down.

izzyizin Fri 28-Dec-12 16:43:10

Apologies for an omission in my post of 16.38.21: the last sentence should read 'what your various financial/benefit entitlements are likely to be as a single parent.

As a PS, what is his problem? Why doesn't he simply say no to his famly's unreasonable demands for money? Does he like to play the big man, flash with your his cash? Or is it that he's not cut the apron strings and is incapable of telling his mummy to stop squeezing him for cash like a lemon?

orangerex Fri 28-Dec-12 16:45:10

YANBU but you will have to stick to your ultimatum now.

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 16:45:38

The awful thing is in every other way he is lovely.kind , a wonderful dad to dcs, does housework but his family and this situation with money-it ruins everything.

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 16:49:47

He just cannot say no to anybody.I do not know why he just does exactly what they say.

He actually told me I was the horrible one that I should be pleased to be with somebody as kind as him??? I couldn't believe it he doesn't seem to think what his family are doing is wrong at all.

I have been on and off benefits the last few years as and when things have gone wrong but this time I can't take it anymore I have so much to deal with dcs health problems that I can't take this as well.At least I know I would be able to pay my bills etc and be free from his family stealing if he went.Its his problem then.

Nanny0gg Fri 28-Dec-12 16:51:10

Um.
He is not a wonderful dad.
Sorry.

ImperialBlether Fri 28-Dec-12 16:51:40

Maybe you should split up, live separately, look after your own money but have him come round to help with the children, if they're not well?

He won't change. I'm really surprised you married him, tbh. I wouldn't have married him after what happened when you were 18.

forgetmenots Fri 28-Dec-12 16:53:03

YANBU. Call the police, this is fraud, if he won't sort it out. You and his children are also his family and you aren't the ones draining money from him fraudulently. Don't make it a choice. Say you will phone the police if this is not stopped for once and for all.

sue52 Fri 28-Dec-12 16:58:04

Good Fathers put their children first. Your Dh puts his children's interests low in his priorities. Why did you get back together after his mother tried to con you out of £8000? I would be finding ways to kick him out of your home if I were you. You are not horrible, his family are.

SugaricePlumFairy Fri 28-Dec-12 16:58:35

You will cope if you ask him to leave even with 4 dc's. smile

This situation will never improve, it is ingrained in him to be the family cash cow and doormat.

Be honest with yourself about the future for you and your children as he will never put you and them first.

BarredfromhavingStella Fri 28-Dec-12 16:58:46

Why are you still with this man? As Nanny said, he is not a good father as he is not putting his children 1st.
LTB

Nanny0gg Fri 28-Dec-12 16:59:52

I wondered that too, sue52.

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 17:01:09

Well, wonderful in the sense that he is lovely with the kids, gets up through the night with them when they are ill and they all adore him. But they do not know when they ask for something and can't have it that its because he has lent all his money to his mum/sister/whoever so not wonderful at all in that sense.

I can't make him see what they are doing though sad

AllSnowballsAndNoKnickers Fri 28-Dec-12 17:03:54

So you have a choice now - live like this forever or do something about it to guarantee your own sanity and financial security. If you choose to stay with him this will be your life forever - is that really what you want?

forgetmenots Fri 28-Dec-12 17:04:51

He'll only see it if you do something about it. Leave or call the police. Give him a chance to respond and follow through if he doesn't. This is shocking.

SantasENormaSnob Fri 28-Dec-12 17:06:04

Ffs get rid of this loser and his loser family.

You will always come a very poor second to these scroungers.

A good father doesn't behave like this.

OxfordBags Fri 28-Dec-12 17:06:17

He can say no to people, though, can't he? He can say no to YOU. He can say no to his wife, his children, when it comes to their needs. The people who are supposed to matter most, who need him most, can hear no a hundred times. A good father does not say yes to others when his wife is struggling to scrape together the cash for a few nappies.

He is enmeshed in a totally toxic, immature dysfunction with various, if not all, memebers of his family. He enables them. Sadly, by tolerating this and staying you are enabling him. I know you don't want to, but you're being forced into doing so. And your DC are learning the same terrible lesson that he himself was damaged by: that you pander to a messed-up parents issues, no matter if they destroy everyone else...

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Fri 28-Dec-12 17:07:04

Either separate your finances or accept that you will spend your whole life subbing his family.

Have all your money in an account that only you can access. Get your name taken off anything you can, close anything that's in your name. Get copies of your credit reports.
And seriosly consider whethervyou want to be with this man.

Lueji Fri 28-Dec-12 17:11:49

What she did was identity theft.
And the company should not have granted credit without proof of identity.

The fact is that money is being taken away from you, through your H.

You are right to ask him to choose.
I suspect you'd be better off financially without all this.

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 17:11:50

I got back with him because I loved him I have tried and tried and tried to make it work but he can't see sense.

I never expected things to get to this stage I think I was hoping he would realise or that his mother would see that we have 4dcs with serious health problems and perhaps she should stop taking money from him.I have probably been in denial.

All I want him to do is say sorry, that he can see his family are wrong and to stick up for me and dcs.To tell his mum to pay her own debts and to keep on at his brother and sister about what they owe us.

I have gone without so much so have dcs and I cannot carry on like this.

I love him.But I love dcs more they come first.

misterwife Fri 28-Dec-12 17:12:00

Your DH is a nincompoop and you should shop his DM to the cops.

Doha Fri 28-Dec-12 17:12:17

He has chosen tho love hasn't he. He took out another credit card--that is decitful. He has put his family before you and your DC's and will happily keep you on the breadline while his mother and sisters have all the luxuries.

He is NOT a nice kind man. He is a liar and a fool.

Please take the control and decisions away from him. you are your DC;s deserve to live worry free about bills and this toxic family.

You and your DC's deserve so much better

Lueji Fri 28-Dec-12 17:12:33

Also, are you sure this account was used by her, not him?

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Fri 28-Dec-12 17:13:47

He doesn't seem to have a problem saying no to you. So clearly he can
He just has to want to...

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 17:22:00

Yes it was a plus size clothing catalogue I had seen it round her house she had shown us bits she had got I just didn't know it was in dhs name till today when debt collection letter came.

Worst bit was when he was trying to say that if they can avoid it for 7 years it'll get written off anyway? Wtf?? I told him if u want something then you pay for it you don't hide for 7 years just to get things for free and that its an awful attitude to have.

I told him to phone his mum and tell her to pay it by the deadline but hed rather we pay it or ignore it and get blacklisted because his mum can't afford it

I was all prepared to say YABU as I loathe people asking others to choose like that, but this is ridiculous.

As others have pointed out, he says no to you. Why should his family be any different? He needs to put his kids first and he isn't right now.

He needs to decide what is more important looking after his DC's or treating his leeches family. And you need to accept whichever decision he makes, if he decides on them then you have to walk away. If you don't then he'll just continue as there will be no consequences. You and your DC deserve better.

Hard as it may be, you will be better off without him if he doesn't stop giving in to his family.

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Fri 28-Dec-12 17:30:35

He's clearly not going to change so sorry to say it but its YOU who's going to have to choose here.

Cos he already has.

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 17:36:37

I just know I can't carry on financially this way. I can barely manage now and the debts keep going up.

Iam going to have to ask him to leave. I'm so sad

PackItInNow Fri 28-Dec-12 17:37:29

Give him an ultimatum. He either puts you and the DC's 1st, or you ring the police on his mum for fraud.

It's about time he put you and the kids 1st for once. Giving him that ultimatum may make him think about what he's doing. TBH, any man who puts everyone and everything else before his immediate (wife and kids) family isn't a man who deserves a good wife like yourself.

SantasENormaSnob Fri 28-Dec-12 17:37:49

The whole family are a bunch of freeloading scrounging twats.

He is putting them way above you and the dc.

By continuing this you are putting him above your own dc.

You said yourself that they have had to go without because of this.

You need to put them first.

sleepyhead Fri 28-Dec-12 17:38:23

This will have been going on his whole life. He may have experienced some very bad times as a child and his mother has had his whole lifetime (and then some) to refine the guilt trips and the melodrama and the "if you loved me...".

Much of his self-worth will have been built around the completely conditional love of his family etc, etc, etc. Really, really unhealthy stuff.

Anyway, unfortunately for you he's learned at his mother's knee all this "if you loved me.." crap and "you're lucky to have me" and "if you don't do this, then that". It's in every fibre of his being and unlikely to change I'm afraid.

The family will take him for every penny that he has, and hasn't, got. They will take you - as an extension of him and they will absolutely see this as their right - for every penny that you have. They will take your children, and your grandchildren for every penny. They will never stop feeling entitled to it - because family supports one another, and in their eyes they see no problem in you doing the supporting and them doing the taking.

Cut loose sad

FarrahFawcettsFlick Fri 28-Dec-12 17:40:03

DH has made the choice to fund his family at his own DCs expense.

After 11 years things won't change, he could have made the change when you left last time. Taking his credit cards off him has solved nothing, because he doesn't want to change. His feelings of duty/love/responsibility to his family outweigh his feelings of duty/love/responsibility to his own children and you.

Even after (the love and expense of) 4 children he still leaves you/DCs scraping for money. You continue to scrape by, making those ever shorter ends meet. Because you are able to do this, his family will continue to leach off you.

He has made his choice, you make yours.

Being single you will have the control and financial security. Ultimately happier than you are now. Don't be scared, it can't be any worse than what you are feeling now.

diddl Fri 28-Dec-12 17:40:08

"I never expected things to get to this stage"

But when you were just 18 & his girlfriend, he tried to fleece you of 8000GBP!!

Why didn´t he get the loan himself?

Things started bad & have stayed bad!

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 17:48:20

He couldn't get the loan himself as their address has been blacklisted for a long time.

I was living with my mum at the time and I was an idiot.

jessjessjess Fri 28-Dec-12 17:49:20

Unfortunately loving him isn't enough.

I strongly recommend you contact a debt advice charity like StepChange or Payplan. And I think you need to issue your DH some major ultimatums.

financialwizard Fri 28-Dec-12 17:56:22

I work in finance obviously and I have also been married to a man like your husband. Earlier on you said that his Mum was fleecing him but you also said that after you took his cards off of him he got a new credit card. I would hazard a guess that it was maxed out already, if not close to it. If that is the case I hate to tell you this but he is just as irresponsible financially as his mother. You will not be able to break him of this cycle. I have seen it with my exh and with my clients time and time again. If you want to provide properly for your children I think you are going to have to wave goodbye to your husband.

financialwizard Fri 28-Dec-12 17:57:36

X post op.

It is a complete fallacy that addresses are blacklisted, it is always the person only.

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 18:02:04

Must have just been the plan all along then to just get the loan from me and not repay it.

I have my suspicions that the latest card was obtained in order to pay sil rent arrears as she was meant to be evicted but it never happened mysteriously.I only found out as I had started opening dhs bank statements to check what he was doing as he had been on online banking a lot that's when I saw payments to the new credit card.

I just can't keep up with it all they take money here there and everywhere.

peaceandlovebunny Fri 28-Dec-12 18:05:13

ok, ok, i have faults. i don't read posts in detail and i never read the whole thread.

but you have made me so angry.

am i right? is this what happened?

you had a child with a man you hadn't bothered to marry - that's not too bad, people do that all the time.
you were conned by him and his mother out of £8000. that should have been the end of the relationship.
you had the man back and had three further children with him. were you mad?
you continued to lend his family money. give it. you know they don't pay back.
you continued producing children knowing your partner has an unreliable job and a family of leeches? how could you be so irresponsible?
you and your children live in poverty while his family have a great time. and you're just waking up to that?
you aren't even thirty yet. four children, miserable past, nothing to look forward to.

ok, i've stopped feeling angry at you. you've had a very hard time (even though a lot of this is your own fault - you should have got out of this three children ago).

do as people here advise. get advice re debt. and get rid of you partner. get rid. you can't afford him. he's like a bad gambling habit or drug habit - he's taking everything and he isn't giving back anything worth having.

you need to sort things. you are young - really young - though as a hard-pressed mother of four i am sure you don't feel it. you have potential to make a good life for yourself and your children once you get rid of the loser and his family of leeches.

good luck. stop being a doormat and get on with your life.

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Fri 28-Dec-12 18:05:19

Maybe its time to consider the possibility that HE sees you as a cash cow too and uses you just as they do.
I'm sorry you're in this situation. It must be so painful

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 18:12:28

Yes I have been stupid.I honestly thought that after I took mil to court over the £8000 that was the end of it.A lot had been lent/given since that was kept quiet from me it has only been last 2-3 years that things got really bad and a lot of money has gone.

I feel awful I know I've been stupid.I have horrendously low self confidence and that has played a huge part.That and hoping he would change.

diddl Fri 28-Dec-12 18:16:07

"I have horrendously low self confidence "

Had a feeling that you might say that-otherwise why not just tell him to "go away" when he asked for 8grand-11yrs ago!!

No way could I have got a loan for that at 18!!

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 18:16:39

It won't be easy, when we split up after the 8000 loan (when dd1 was between 8 weeks-3yrs) I had his mum round constantly demanding to see dd1, they took me to court for contact it was awful they made my life hell.

HecateQueenofWitches Fri 28-Dec-12 18:19:41

Ok. Before you get him out, secretly gather evidence of her fraud.
Give him no indication that you are doing it.
Put the originals in a safe deposit box
Give him the copies and her and say if they hassle you in any way, you will take this evidence to the police. At that point say you want him out.

forgetmenots Fri 28-Dec-12 18:21:20

How were they able to take you to court for contact given that you could easily prove you had had to take your mil to small claims court for fraud?
(Genuine question)

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 18:22:18

I was very stupid, I was 18 I had a good job but had just lost a baby so I was in a mess. Dh was living with his mum and said he wanted to move out get a flat with me etc etc but that he couldn't as was so worried about his mum being hounded by loan sharks-he said if I got a loan for her and it was all paid off he would get a flat for us.

I was just ridiculously naïve I didn't think for a second she wouldn't pay it back she promised she would.

All I can see is how many mistakes I've made I feel sick.and so so stupid

HollyBerryBush Fri 28-Dec-12 18:23:37

I really feel for you OP. DH's feckless brother used to be like this. The amount of bad debt he accrued, both directly and indirectly - in my opinion - caused FIL to suffer a massive fatal heart attack sad

I am not forgiving at all, I have a very long memory. DH has come to terms with it on account that BIL is the only brother he has. Fortunately they moved abroad and we never have to see them.

You are going to have to toughen up, lovvie, really toughen up. I can't tell you to boot him out, but if he puts his mother over his childrens needs, then you need to rethink what exactly he brings to all your lives.

HecateQueenofWitches Fri 28-Dec-12 18:24:08

We all make mistakes. Don't feel stupid, just learn from them!

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 18:25:31

I asked that at the time, according to solicitor and CAFCASS the money/loan issue was seperate to dd1 having contact with her father/grandmother.in the end only dh was granted supervised contact but it was a long hard fight.mil had such a nerve harassing me to see the very child who was going without because of her.

forgetmenots Fri 28-Dec-12 18:28:31

That's why I had wondered ariane - to me it is obvious he does not have your children's interests at heart. It sounds like she has put you all through the mill with your DH's permission. I'm so sorry you're having to go through this, it has to stop.

peaceandlovebunny Fri 28-Dec-12 18:28:46

stop feeling stupid and sick.
say 'i did that. i did my best. it didn't work out'. then forget it.

and now that you are a different person, with so much more life experience, start or keep working on making a better future for yourself and your children.

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 18:55:17

Dh has just tried to tell me how he knows I am right but he's embarassed that his family have kept doing this and he just can't say no. He doesn't know what to do as I have asked numerous times for my money back and his family just ignore me and he doesn't want to argue with them.

He wants to wait and see if the debt collection agency(for catalogue in his name) write again after the deadline they've given then he will apparently tell his mum to pay it.

I just think he is fobbing me off, trying to avoid it all "til the next letter" or saying they might pay us back "after christmas".

I've had enough all I can see when I look at him is a weak man who has chosen to let his dcs and wife go without. I felt defeated at first now I keep feeling angrier and angrier I look at myself in the mirror-a mess I can't afford a haircut and my glasses are scratched to bits and not strong enough because I can't afford new ones.Dcs all wear 2nd (or 3rd) hand clothes yet sil dcs always in new things.I feel so bitter that his family aare draining us of so much money.

Tomorrow is ds1 birthday I don't want to ruin that but I think after this weekend Dh will have to move back in with his mother.

Doinmummy Fri 28-Dec-12 18:57:52

You have been naive and far too trusting. Stop beating yourself up and take action. Sort your own finances out, make sure you have an account only you can access. I agree with hecate , gather as much info as poss on MIL's fraud.

You must take control of yourself . Your DH cannot be helped.

I wouldn't be surprised if things are worse than you know. You need to extract yourself from any finances connected with your DH and his family. You will be ok on your own. DH and his family can still see the children. Life is hard enough without your DH creating financial hardship for you . It must be a terrible strain for you. You can't live with the deceit and lies.

Doinmummy Fri 28-Dec-12 19:00:10

He can't possibly love you. Your last post has brought a tear to my eye.

HecateQueenofWitches Fri 28-Dec-12 19:09:47

He's probably sensed a determination in you and is trying to pull you back in to save his skin and theirs.
Don't fall for it

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 19:14:16

I won't fall for it, he's tried it before, hoping I will just let it go.

I can't do it anymore I've been pushed to my limit. Iam good with money, I always pay my bills I can manage all that fine by myself and I won't have to worry about debt letters turning up anymore.

It is so sad it has come to this though.

AllOverIt Fri 28-Dec-12 19:15:22

I'm not normally in the LTB camp, but today I am.

Please ask him to leave. He will not change, and has proved that time and again... hmm

MaryPoppinsBag Fri 28-Dec-12 19:21:18

OP what is your financial situation?
Do you work? Do you own/ rent your home? Basically what I'm asking is can you kick him out and support you and your DC's? (you'll docs better job than him by the sounds of it)

Do you know whether he has used your names to open any credit cards etc. have you checked your credit rating / history recently?

They sound like an utter nightmare TBH!

MaryPoppinsBag Fri 28-Dec-12 19:22:36

docs = do a

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 19:25:42

I do not work, dcs (11,5,3,8ms) all have genetic syndrome and other health issues related to it. 3 of them receive dla for this.

We rent but it is a council house so relatively secure

Jux Fri 28-Dec-12 19:34:45

Sad though it is, you are right. He needs to go, and you need to cut all financial ties. You will manage on your own. He will get more and more caught up with his family's debts. You need to ensure your own financial position is unassailable, so CSA straight away to make sure that whatever money he has to pay for the dcs is taken before his mum/sister gets it.

suburbophobe Fri 28-Dec-12 19:35:59

he would rather see his wife and kids go without.

This tells you all you need to know.

He and his family have financially abused you for years.

What are you going to do about it?

I would extracate (sp?) myself from this situation. Pronto!

By pandering to their numerous requests you are letting them walk all over you and actually giving them the money you should be spending on yourself and the DCs, making the best life you can for you all.

redexpat Fri 28-Dec-12 19:41:03

I'm glad you are angry. I'm angry just from reading the post. My first ever LTB. Please stay angry. Please don't give in.

yousmell Fri 28-Dec-12 19:54:05

Agree his primary responsibility is to you and the kids. He needs to provide for his own children first. Not his brother/mum/sister.

SleighbellsRingInYourLife Fri 28-Dec-12 19:54:13

This prick has been lying to you for 11 years.

He saw a young girl with a good job and promised her what she wanted if only she would take out a loan he knew she would be left to pay.

He's not a mug. You are.

You're the cash cow and you always have been. He's just like the rest of his family.

3 lots of DLA? They must be delighted with that.

He's only giving you all that guff about how he can't help it and it will all change because he senses you pulling away.

You were very foolish to tie yourself legally and financially to this thief and his family of con artists.

I bet he made you believe he was doing you a favour too.

Get away from him. He has never treated you properly.

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 21:15:27

The only thing I think I managed to do right (on the advice of the council) was put him down as an occupant on my tenancy rather than have a joint tenancy. If I had done that I could have lost my house too.

We do not have any joint bank accounts either.I do not know of anything fraudulently in my name, only dhs.time will tell I expect.

SugaricePlumFairy Fri 28-Dec-12 21:37:21

I really feel for you.

Think of the New Year as a new beginning for you and the children , tell him to leave and then never look back.

You will be fine! [ smile]

YesIamYourSisterInLaw Fri 28-Dec-12 21:48:04

Bless you op my face was like this shock reading your post.
You deserve so much more than this, please be strong.
God I just want to give you a cuddle, I don't care if its unmumsnetty you can all stare and tut at me grin

buildingmycorestrength Fri 28-Dec-12 21:50:10

ariane, I was on another thread of yours, about the house, and have been concerned about your situation even before I knew all this! This is shocking.

You must get a separate account now, and get some professional help from people who are able to assist with extricating yourself and the children.

Do it for them.

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 21:56:59

Building-yes my whole life is a bit of a disaster, I feel like I'm in a tangled up web of misery.Problems with dh and money,problems with my mum/sister and dcs health issues.

It is hard to know where to start and what to do. A lot of things have got too much recently, I have been unwell and run down the past couple of weeks and when that letter came today I completely lost my temper.

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 22:01:34

YesIam-thankyou it means a lot to hear that-funny how complete strangers offer me more kindness than my own dh.

MollyMurphy Fri 28-Dec-12 22:04:47

DON'T do anything until you get a separate account, gather as much documentation as possible (bank records etc) of how your DH and his family have been abusing your trust and get your ducks in a row. these people have already shown you their true colours so you know they are arable of nasty behaviour - and you want to be prepared to tackle any custody and access disputes.

I was going to suggest counselling but your DH is being so inappropriate.....I think you need to start making preparations.

Sorry your in this position sad

MollyMurphy Fri 28-Dec-12 22:05:41

Arable?.....capable

DorisIsWaiting Fri 28-Dec-12 22:11:45

I really agreee with the posts above -

He seems to be weak and spineless when it comes to his family.

It amy be worthwhile getting a credit check done (experian or similar) to make sureyou don't get anymore surprises...

I hope you find the strength to see a way through this and find the peace that you deserve.

cees Fri 28-Dec-12 22:14:22

Christ that is awful, I'd say your dh is a prick and his family vipers but you know all that.

You shouldn't have to fight so hard for money off their Dad when he hands it out without thought for his wife and children to your in-laws.

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 22:17:14

I already have my own account, never felt it was a good idea to have a joint one.

Counselling wouldn't work dh is so loyal to his family he will never change, he would just make empty promises to keep me quiet.He works for his brother so he will never tell them he wants his money back as he doesn't want to fall out with them.No part of his life seems to be independant from them it is a horribly unhealthy situation.

Lueji Fri 28-Dec-12 22:18:48

This time if they go pester you, report them to the police.

Nanny0gg Fri 28-Dec-12 22:19:27

Is there still such a thing as Sure Start? You clearly need support at home, and some kind of help like that could be very useful for you atm.

CrazyChristmasLady Fri 28-Dec-12 22:27:28

"Counselling wouldn't work dh is so loyal to his family he will never change, he would just make empty promises to keep me quiet.He works for his brother so he will never tell them he wants his money back as he doesn't want to fall out with them.No part of his life seems to be independant from them it is a horribly unhealthy situation. "

Sadly you have answered your own question. You don't need any of us to tell you that you need to leave him and stick to it (or rather kick him out). The fact that you have made provisions like not having joint accounts and not having him as a joint tennant says it all. You don't trust him. Do you really want to live for the next 50 or so years like this?

He isn't going to change. He isn't going to suddenly put his wife and children before his freeloading family, you really do need to get rid and look to a future without him and his awful family. sad

CrazyChristmasLady Fri 28-Dec-12 22:27:54

SureStart are still around and will be helpful.

ariane5 Fri 28-Dec-12 22:44:09

Yes I did make provisions like keeping seperate bank accounts, not having a joint tenancy because I knew things were not going well.

I tried to cut back on things to compensate for his lending to his family but it got to the point where I couldn't cut back anymore. I secretly got out 2 credit cards of my own (nothing on them-he has no idea I've got them) in case one week I couldn't pay the rent/bills/food as his wages were becoming erratic.

I hoped I was just being over cautious and that it wouldn't come to this but the letter today just filled me with rage it may as well have come through the door with flashing lights on it was a complete wake up call as to how much they are laughing at us.mil tried to deny she knew what it was for, dh tried to defend her its as if he can't see her for what she really is.I can hardly bear to even look at him tonight but its ds birthday tomorrow once that's all done he has to go.even when I reminded him we have only got ds1 1 present because we have no money he didn't flinch he just cannot see it from my point of view at all.

pigletmania Fri 28-Dec-12 23:57:49

Nah op the has to stop right now. He is nt a good husband or father putting everybody's needs above his children and wife and not caring about it. Your better off without this leech, go at it alone, make your own happiness.

mrslaughan Sat 29-Dec-12 00:05:31

kick him out - his children and you are better off without him. His whole family are practising some sort of abuse on you and your children.

And I would ring the catelogue people and tell them where your MIL lives - but then I can be a spiteful bitch.

Jux Sat 29-Dec-12 01:26:02

Yes, definitely phone the catalogue people and give them mil's address.

Kickingmhim out may seem a drastic step, but he will then have to decide who is more important, his mum, sister, brother, or his wife and,children. I honestly don't think he'll ever take you seriously if you carry as you are. You have to do something drastic which will have a major effect on,him. Don't have him back until he has demonstrated over a good period of time that he has adjusted his priorities in your favour. Or don't have him back at all.

I think you will find life a lot easier without him, tbh. For the practical side of looking after the children, you can get a lot of help via social services as they are getting dla.

You are a very strong woman and you can get the life you want and deserve.

MrsFlibble Sat 29-Dec-12 01:44:46

Kick him out, and tell him in the most venomous tone, "Your pathetic as a man, a husband and father, and we do not now or will ever you" just so he knows you mean business.

Tell him to fuck off back to his mothers, and you will inform the companies of were he is living.

MrsFlibble Sat 29-Dec-12 01:45:16

*need

Longdistance Sat 29-Dec-12 03:31:00

You know what you have to do. He's treated you appallingly, and put his mum, bro and sis first before his own family and wife.

I really feel for your dc in all this. Thy deserve better, and only you can make that move or them, and for your own sanity.

It seems like you're in a vicious circle, he makes the promises, breaks them, then nothing happens.

Wrt the mil catalogue, I'd do as pp post suggested and make copies of any letters, give her the chance to pay, or report her for fraud.

She sounds evil btw. Horrid horrid woman!

Hegsy Sat 29-Dec-12 03:56:19

Yanbu get rid. I feel so sad for you sad

lottiegarbanzo Sat 29-Dec-12 04:31:22

You posted about your wedding didn't you, how it had to be on a shoestring yet SiL was planning something extravagant, in part with your money. At that point thre were 'loans' of many thousands of pounds that various family members were never going to pay back and your DH would not ask them. He kept promising no more then taking out new credit cards to give them money.

In a way marrying him was a good idea because it means he'll have to pay a regular amount to support the children. That assessment might shake him up a bit, if it's based on stated income and does not take account of informal loans and random gifts (probably does include debt, I don't know how it's worked out).

You clearly have your head screwed on, with the house, accounts etc, so will be ok.

RedHelenB Sat 29-Dec-12 07:32:31

Yes but OP's husband works for his brother! I can see finances getting very messy.

SleighbellsRingInYourLife Sat 29-Dec-12 08:00:42

"In a way marrying him was a good idea because it means he'll have to pay a regular amount to support the children."

He would have had to do that anyway.

Marriage has just meant that now he can take out debts the OP will be legally liable for.

And he knows it.

ChristmasSpiritEndorphins Sat 29-Dec-12 08:51:30

Sometimes love isn't enough. I don't think he nor his family will ever change.
I'm sorry he let you down over and over, and wish you luck in the future.

Lueji Sat 29-Dec-12 08:54:45

Adding to what Sleigh said, the sooner you separate the better.

ariane5 Sat 29-Dec-12 08:58:10

Yes I had posted before about the wedding, we had such a small budget and it was really difficult, to then hear about sil plans for a 20k plus wedding made my blood boil.
Getting money back off dh family is like getting blood from a stone sometimes they would give the odd 5 or10 pound but the last few months they have ignored every phone call/ text about it.

Dh finances will def become difficult, bil is a sneaky nasty piece of work and if he can pay him cash/fiddle wage slips I expect he would to avoid all the family money (as they see it) being given to me for dcs.

I tried so hard to change dh, to show him how you pay bills first and if you have anything left that's when you can treat yourself etc but his family want a lifestyle they cannot afford.

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Sat 29-Dec-12 09:08:52

My dhs family are toxic, but just no way would i be able to deal with this.
The sooner you make the break, the better.
They are milking you both dry, you are going without, whilst they are rolling in it at your expense.

HecateQueenofWitches Sat 29-Dec-12 09:10:15

PLEASE gather the evidence of the fraud before you do anything and put it safe. Out of the house. Safe deposit box.

This can be your protection. If they know that you have evidence of a crime and that you will turn it over to the police if they harrass you, they are more likely to leave you alone.

ariane5 Sat 29-Dec-12 09:19:32

Just had a massive argument with dh.apparently I am ruining xmas/ds birthday by going on about it dh has shouted in my face ripped the stairgate from the kitchen doorway and said I don't care about ds because I'm moaning on his bday.

He will not go.he said he will not fall out with his family and Iam in the wrong.what have I done to deserve this.I shouldn't have mentioned it today but he's annoying me trying to act like everythings normal I want him to go

OpheliasWeepingWillow Sat 29-Dec-12 09:21:22

He has chosen his family over you already sad

OpheliasWeepingWillow Sat 29-Dec-12 09:22:10

Ok massive red flag on the ripping out the stair gate. Can you get him to leave?

ariane5 Sat 29-Dec-12 09:26:56

Just had a massive argument with dh.apparently I am ruining xmas/ds birthday by going on about it dh has shouted in my face ripped the stairgate from the kitchen doorway and said I don't care about ds because I'm moaning on his bday.

He will not go.he said he will not fall out with his family and Iam in the wrong.what have I done to deserve this.I shouldn't have mentioned it today but he's annoying me trying to act like everythings normal I want him to go

biff23 Sat 29-Dec-12 09:27:03

Be strong. He has no love or respect for you and your children. You should always be his priority, he puts his family first though and he'll never change now.

I'd do as someone else suggested, contact the catalogue co and advise them. I'd then get him out the house, he'll plod along and continue to bully you unless you do.

Suzietastic Sat 29-Dec-12 09:29:29

You've put up with it for 11 years. I think you are a saint. You may well be 'moaning' on DS's birthday but at least you aren't smashing the house up. If the house is in your name I imagine you can take steps to have him removed. I'm not an expert of course.

Someone earlier mentioned getting an experion or equifax report. This will detail all credit accounts in your name soyou will be able to see if any have been opened fraudulently & take steps to deal with them.

I'm so sad for you. Be strong. Unlike your 'D'H who sounds like a spineless prick x

ariane5 Sat 29-Dec-12 09:29:51

He won't go says its ds1 bday which apparently I'm ruining. Probably true but its been knawing away at me all night.

Apparently I "need help as I can't let go of things or help people out" he says all I do is moan about money.He only sees me as the bad one he's been brainwashed I can't believe how awful things are.

ariane5 Sat 29-Dec-12 09:31:42

He has said that catalogue in his name he will pay it for her its his choice to.he didn't know about it but doesn't mind-its his mum after all.

He doesn't think that him having a bad credit score at my address matters

SleighbellsRingInYourLife Sat 29-Dec-12 09:32:48

He's an abusive bully.

Can't you see that?

The council could, which is why they told you not to out him on the tenancy.

That is your house.

You can call the police to get him removed if he won't go.

Lovecat Sat 29-Dec-12 09:34:48

He ripped out a stairgate and yet you are somehow ruining your DS's birthday??

I've just read this thread from start to finish and am shock that he can treat his OWN children like this - does he not think of them as his family?

I'd call the police. This is violent, threatening behaviour, he's not on the tenancy, call the police and get rid.

So sorry you're having to go through this.

SaraBellumHertz Sat 29-Dec-12 09:35:14

Tell him again to leave - your DS's day is not ruined, but the rest of hisife will be severely impacted if you continue to put up with this.

You need to separate so you can start to disentangle yourself from this financial mess. If he is being violent or threatening then call the police and have him removed.

You can do this - you sound sensible and capable of great strength when not beaten diwn by a family of low life's

sparkle12mar08 Sat 29-Dec-12 09:35:33

OFFS, just get out, get out now. Of the whole sorry mess. If the tenancy is in your name, call the police and get him evicted. Move on by yourself. If the account is in your name don't give him anything from it. You have hundreds of options. USE them!!!

SleighbellsRingInYourLife Sat 29-Dec-12 09:36:20

He hasn't been brainwashed!

You have.

You actually buy all this bullshit about him being generous?

He is just the same as the rest of his family.

He steals from you and lies to you and bullies you and has convinced you that you are in the wrong for objecting to that.

Get rid of him. And sever your financial ties ASAP

He will ruin you. In fact, he already has.

HecateQueenofWitches Sat 29-Dec-12 09:36:24

Well, he WILL go because he is not a tenant. So you can call the police and have him removed.

SaraBellumHertz Sat 29-Dec-12 09:36:42

And to clarify he absolutely has been violent and threatening with his reaction to you today. The police will support you.

HecateQueenofWitches Sat 29-Dec-12 09:37:27

And Sleigh is right - you have been brainwashed and manipulated.

He's turned on you now because he sees his cash cow disappearing.

Please call the police right now. He is turning nasty.

ariane5 Sat 29-Dec-12 09:40:07

I can't believe it has got so bad him telling me I have the problem not him.

I'm so glad everybody on here can see my point of view as he clearly wants to break me down untill I doubt myself.hearing here that I deserve better is keeping me sane and focused on sorting this mess out.

But I am so so sad I feel such a fool

DorsetKnobwithJingleBellsOn Sat 29-Dec-12 09:42:23

Agree with Hecate, call the police who can remove him and change the locks.

HecateQueenofWitches Sat 29-Dec-12 09:42:50

You are not a fool.

Just remind him that he is not on the tenancy agreement and has no right to be there if you don't want him there.

And call the police.

OR. If you think there is the slightest chance that he is going to physically attack you now, pretend to drop it, to keep yourself safe and phone the police secretly. Have them arrive to help you without him knowing they are on the way.

But whatever you do - get him out.

and PLEASE get the details of the fraud as soon as you can, any way you can.

It may be the only thing that will save you from harrassment from his family. Them knowing you have something on them that proves they committed fraud.

DorsetKnobwithJingleBellsOn Sat 29-Dec-12 09:44:29

You might want to mention the fraud to the police as well.

Lueji Sat 29-Dec-12 09:48:27

He's damaging your property and your belongings.

Call the police and get him out.

I did.

glastocat Sat 29-Dec-12 09:59:40

He is a bully and a thief, and yes, you have been a fool. But you need to sort this out for the sake of your kids. Get rid of your useless leech of a husband and make a new better life away from his robbing sponging family! If you stick around for more abuse, well you can't say you didn't know what you were getting into, I can't believe you have let this drag on so long! So, time to woman up and stop being a fool!

Brycie Sat 29-Dec-12 10:06:56

I agree completely with Hecate and glastocat - police. So many offences being committed here. And whoever said don't doubt yourself - I agree with them too. Do not doubt yourself.

ariane5 Sat 29-Dec-12 10:12:32

He has told me I am mental. That I am a piss taker because he does so much for me, things like... Folding the dcs clothes???

Also I have ruined ds bday his words to me were "Its bad enough ds only got 1 present but the arguing as well-youve just ruined his whole day you have serious issues"

I told him to get out.he has gone and it doesn't take a genius to guess where.

Well done mil your cash machine is coming home

DorsetKnobwithJingleBellsOn Sat 29-Dec-12 10:14:12

Right, so the next step is to pack up all his stuff and have it ready fro him to take when he comes back.

Brycie Sat 29-Dec-12 10:15:44

How can you stop him coming back if he has a key? Can you put his stuff outside for him and call the police and tell them you're worried about his reaction and have someone there?

bigbuttons Sat 29-Dec-12 10:15:56

Oh Op you are a strong, strong woman. He is very, very abusive. I recognise alot of the twisted logic he is using. he will blame you for everything. I fell for it too. Be proud that you have woken up and taking these first steps to getting rid of him.

well done for getting him out OP! and well done for seeing that these are venomous lies coming out of his foul mouth. this is all him and them.

if i was you i would talk to the council and ask if there is any way they could rehouse you to another area. i would love for you to be able to start afresh away from his family. there's also the council house exchange lists and stuff. know all this is a bit 'big' but just want you to see you have more options and choices than you realise.

he is financially and emotionally abusive imo. i think you have to get rid of the idea of him as a victim of his family and you simply get hurt as part of the fallout - it is HIM! he is hurting you directly. he's an adult. he's as fucked up and toxic as the rest of them and he has been financially abusing you and bullying you since you were an 18 year old kid, pregnant and vulnerable.

yes you're in a huge mess, yes your life so far has been very messed up but it can get better IF you get rid of the source and the source is him. your life has been a nightmare for 11 years because of his presence in it. undo that and you can start again.

Brycie Sat 29-Dec-12 10:18:05

"PLEASE gather the evidence of the fraud before you do anything and put it safe. Out of the house. Safe deposit box. This can be your protection. If they know that you have evidence of a crime and that you will turn it over to the police if they harrass you, they are more likely to leave you alone."
I agree with this.

i don't - he will simply say that he applied for it for her and it is totally fine with him. ergo no fraud done.

in terms of evidence i would log his violent behaviour today, his financial abuse historically and every single incident that occurs from now on from him or his family as proof of harassment. write down every threat, phonecall, visit etc.

yes - i would actually phone the police today OP - get it logged that you are scared and that he has damaged your property and his family has a history of harassing you. also call the council and beg for a locks change giving these reasons.

i think you need to act! and keep acting! you can move forward but you have to be canny and do all you can to protect yourself. no more being a mug or assuming it'll all be ok.

lottiegarbanzo Sat 29-Dec-12 10:22:20

Well done.

There must be a financial benefit to being married, it's often advised for this reason (someone?). Does he have an obligation to you that he wouldn't otherwise?

Anyway, things will work out and at least you'll have control of the family finances.

I just feel so sad that he and his family have shown such contempt for his children for so many years.

HecateQueenofWitches Sat 29-Dec-12 10:24:59

Good point. If it is just in his name and she can't prove he didn't agree. I suppose yes, he would lie. Although an account in his name at someone else's address? Or his name, billing account his address - but all goods to someone else and where have the statements been going? It's a grey area but you could still argue fraud. But if he says he did it, then yes, probably nothing would happen. Which is a shame.

She should get copies of her credit files and make sure there is nothing on there in her name. If there is, then she can act on that.

HecateQueenofWitches Sat 29-Dec-12 10:26:39

I can't BELIEVE he dared to use the one present thing!

Whose bloody fault is THAT?! If he wasn't giving all the money to them, your children would have more and he DARES to throw it at you like it's your fault?

Get angry, OP. Get very bloody angry indeed.

ariane5 Sat 29-Dec-12 10:26:55

I give it 24 hours before mil starts up about their rights to see dcs.

Dd1 is 12 next year so not long just a few years till mil can brainwash her into getting a loan out as well. I don't know what I will do I don't want the same thing happening over and over again.

Would suit me if I never saw dh ever again or his family but they will insist on contact and the dcs will want to see dh but I worry for them being dragged in with this family sad

it was an account at his mum's address using his name from when he was living there. the bills have turned up at OP's address as she hasn't paid and it's now debt collection services and they've tracked down his current address. if i'm understanding it right.

yes but less chance of that with them living with you and you being a strong counter message to their fucked up ethos OP. your action of ending it with them will teach them clearly that no it is not ok to use and abuse people.

HecateQueenofWitches Sat 29-Dec-12 10:29:26

Ah. Tricky then.

ariane - I'd seriously consider moving to the other end of the bloody country. and I don't advise such things lightly.

And you have to do whatever you have to do to ensure no brainwashing.

And that may mean reaching a point when you tell your children what happened.

I know you are supposed to protect your children from ever knowing a relative is a bad person blah blah blah, but if they are at risk of financial abuse - they need protecting and that overrides any perceived 'obligation' to paint a shitty person as a good one.

ariane5 Sat 29-Dec-12 10:30:22

Yes swallowed that is right they've ob checked electoral register and tracked him to here.

if you don't want to feel like an idiot anymore or for the rest of your life to be like this you need to find your big girls knickers, pull them up and start acting like you mean it now.

you're not a vulnerable kid anymore. you are an adult woman with 4 kids to raise. they will assume that they can bully the sucker into whatever they want still - you have to prove and show that that isn't the case.

PLEASE call the police and the council today - start acting and drawing a line in the sand you can't come back from.

oh and call the debt collector people of the catalogue and inform them his address is at his mother's now as you've kicked him out. get your tenancy agreement updated with him removed as an occupant and then you can provide that to anyone who comes looking for money in his name.

sorry if i sound awfully bossy but please, please ACT. make a list and do all of this. you will feel stronger with every action you take and you will building boundaries and reinforcements that protect you from them.

Chesntoots Sat 29-Dec-12 10:45:33

I'm sorry you are going through this.
I would get his stuff out ASAP and get the locks changed (this is what those credit cards of yours are for!!).
You haven't ruined anything - he has. As for the one parent thing, in a way he was right - they only have you as a proper parent. He is a useless oxygen thief.
Don't worry about the MIL. Adults have no "rights", it is about what is best for the children.
Its going to be rocky but I get the feeling you have reached that place where everything becomes clear and you know what you have to do.
Take care, keep posting, we are here x

VodkaJelly Sat 29-Dec-12 10:58:33

ariane5 you have been given some really good advice but also some duff advice.

There is no point in calling the police or the debt collectors about this catalogue debt. The debt is in your husbands name and only HE can lodge a complaint about identity theft. The baliffs will not even talk to you about the debt as it is not in your name. Again, only your husband can sort this by filing an identity theft case with the police - will he do this against his own mother?

As for collecting documentation about this fraud and producing in case of court, there is no point in doing this. All that will happen is you produce the documents and your husband will say that he opened the account and let his mum use it. so there is no theft or anything. And you will come across as some one trying to cause trouble and a bitter ex (I know you are not!)

Dont even ring the baliffs to give them his mums address again as they will not listen to you, the debt is in your husbands name and they have tracked him down. His mum must have been sending the letters as "Return to Sender" or "not at this address" for them to do this, a debt collection letter is not going to suddenly turn up unless the mother has been returning the letters.

Next time a letter comes to your house return it to sender and put his mother address back on there.

ariane5 Sat 29-Dec-12 11:17:20

I will be back on here later, it is ds1 birthday party this afternoon so I have to get a few bits ready, pick up cake etc.

Really don't know how I will get through the party I don't want anybody to notice something is wrong as I can't handle questions I just feel like hiding in bed and crying I am drained and exhausted.

Jux Sat 29-Dec-12 11:22:11

Don't worry too much about mil's possible use of your children as they get older. I think that in a couple of years , possibly even now - depending upon what your dd is like - you could tell her what has happened, about the debt, about you all going without while mil and sil live the high life etc. You do need to tell your children the truth both in order to educate them and to protect them.

Under 'normal' circumstances, telling children that their parents "grew apart" or otherwise glossing it over might be the done thing, but your children do need to be absolutely clear about the way their extended family behave.

SugaricePlumFairy Sat 29-Dec-12 11:22:28

Well done OP for getting him out.

I can't offer any legal advice, just online support smile.

Stay strong..

Sallyingforth Sat 29-Dec-12 11:24:48

Keep your spirits up ariane, you are on your way to a better life without the financial drain of your hopefully ex-inlaws. It's great to see that you are carrying on with the DC party - they are the priority in all of this.
vodka gives you excellent advice above. Good luck!

MrsFlibble Sat 29-Dec-12 11:27:34

Oh Ariane tell Hubby that the reason DS only has one present is because of him and his family, dont be afraid to say it to all of them.

HecateQueenofWitches Sat 29-Dec-12 12:43:23

Yes. It was a bit duff, sorry about that. I hadn't considered that although it is clear to me that it's fraud (you aren't supposed to get credit for yourself in someone else's bloody name! and he claimed to the OP he didn't know, etc), she wouldn't actually be able to prove it cos the arsehole would just lie. Was just hoping to think of something she could use to give herself something to be able to fend them off a bit.

I still think she should get her own credit report though. Make sure there's nothing on there that shouldn't be. THAT she would be able to prove.

nkf Sat 29-Dec-12 12:54:32

I think the fact that he's gone is wonderful. It sounds like a nightmare. Time to take total control of the money. No reason why he or his familiy can't see the children. They just can't have any money off anyone. Do you have all the income/rent money in your name? I think there is something you can do to clarify with creditors that you no longer have legal responsibility for his debts. Not sure what it is but someone in Legal might be able to help.

VodkaJelly Sat 29-Dec-12 12:57:38

Hecate I totally agree, ariane should get a credit report in her name to make sure nothing suspect is going on there.

Unfortunately ariane cannot prove fraud, only her husband can do that and it doesnt sound like something he is willing to do, even at the cost of his marriage. She is well rid of the arsehole.

You have done the right thing OP.

Onwards and upwards - listen to the advice here and post on Legal Matters about the children on here too. It's good you don't have a mortgage together.
Get a complete rundown of your ingoings and outgoings and the true state of your finances with the money owed by them. Send it to him and say you have had enough of watching your children go without at the expense of his family, and you've been a mug for long enough.
From now on it can be his problem and he can stay with his mother.
This way it's only a matter of time before he is blacklisted everywhere.

nkf Sat 29-Dec-12 14:46:00

Is there a way of getting money back that has been lent within the family? I did wonder if too much energy has been expended on texts/calls.

ariane5 Sat 29-Dec-12 14:55:46

I do not think they will pay back what they owe-these debts go back years I have asked repeatedly-they promise to pay then never turn up with the money.There seems to be no point me asking they simply ignore it.

I don't expect I will get any of it back.At least I know there will not be anymore now though.If they borrow from dh that's entirely his problem now.

nkf Sat 29-Dec-12 14:57:06

I think you are right. You have to let the money go. Annoying but there it is. At least it's over. All your money is now for you and your children.

Jux Sat 29-Dec-12 15:14:49

You need to arrange to see a solicitor to ensure that you are financially separated. You need to do this asap.

Have you heard from him?

How are you doing today?

mrslaughan Sat 29-Dec-12 15:25:08

Don't say anything to DH again, Call the police - tell them your husband has been physically threatening, that you want him to leave, but as he ripped the stair gate off the door, you are too scared to ask again, but you want him to move out and he is not listening. Say you need support to get him out of the house - and ask them to come and help.
Tell them the lease is in your name.

This is the best present you could give DS - given your husbands family. Your husband sounds a bully.

Can you afford to have the locks changed?

AyeOopMoose Sat 29-Dec-12 15:30:37

OP, it's not often I post on threads like this as others have more experience and say things better.

But I had to say this, you commented on your low self-esteem? I think you are AMAZING for taking a stand and telling your H to leave. It must have been hard to do but you found the strength to do it.

It's the first step in getting you and your DCs sorted. FWIW I would look to move asap, as others have suggested. You all deserve a fresh start and you know deep down you can do it.

juniperdewdrop Sat 29-Dec-12 15:32:09

Just read through your posts OP. So sorry you've been so duped. Looks like he's as bad as them. You're well rid. Do you have many RL friends to support you?

Keep posting on here for support. Well done for seeing sense. You haven't been a fool you were in love, it can make us see things through rose tinted glasses. Yours are clear now though and it will get better soon.

If they hassle you though, including 'd'h then call the police.

juniperdewdrop Sat 29-Dec-12 15:32:48

Agree with AyeOopMoose you are amazing.

DollyTwat Sat 29-Dec-12 15:35:44

Op is is possible your dh has borrowed money from them and not told you and that's why they won't pay you back? Or have they given the money to him?

Just thinking there may be way more you don't know about for them to feel entitled to take your money like that

FestiveFiggy Sat 29-Dec-12 15:39:49

Oh my god just read latest posts and I'm another one who doesn't say these things likely but I too hope for u he doesn't come back .......stay strong!!!

peaceandlovebunny Sat 29-Dec-12 15:49:03

i hope you are rid of him now and can have a decent life with your children. has he actually left?

YesIamYourSisterInLaw Sat 29-Dec-12 15:52:49

Your husband is a cunt and I don't use that word lightly.
You are very brave op, stay strong

Astelia Sat 29-Dec-12 16:13:15

Can you look to do a house exchange to get away from them? Can you move nearer your family?

You need to get away from them and build a new life.

pigletmania Sat 29-Dec-12 16:30:57

Omg I have just today he is a nasty abusive bully. He needs to leave, you need to call the police if he does not. Really what you can do is empower your children to be assertive, good with money and encourage them not to lend any r be garantours for their grandparents and ther aunties and uncles.

AllOverIt Sat 29-Dec-12 16:31:48

You're doing brilliantly op. good luck with the party. Keep strong smile smile

pigletmania Sat 29-Dec-12 16:39:02

You have to be open and honest to them about your ex and his parents, they are going without as dad has lent them the family money

ariane5 Sat 29-Dec-12 16:57:11

The party was not great.dh came as he "had PROMISED ds he would be there" .It was at my mums house as my house teeny.My mum thought it was fine for dh to be there and was telling me how dh must be feeling so bad and that he will change.

I sat in the box room with the baby for a bit, couldn't even look at or speak to dh.Rest of the party I pretty much ignored him then he went back to his mums and said he will phone me next week to "talk when things have calmed down"

I will not be changing my mind.and so what if he is embarassed like my mum thinks.So he should be.

mumagain38 Sat 29-Dec-12 16:58:51

Hope ur ok ariane! This part is very hard to deal with, to stay strong and when the dust settles its even harder to keep that resolve when he comes back with his tail between his legs..which he will do and genuinly mean it to--till the next time! I understand of a sort what ur going through after being in a emotional and physical abuse relationship. leaving was the hardest thing ive EVER done in my whloe life as i still actually loved him but knew deep down things would never change. I think the grabbing of the stair gate sounds like sheer frustraition that u cant see his point---which is why u need to seperate as ur both on different pages and what ever u say wont be absorbed. When u do emerge from this (albeit emotionaly battered and bruised) u will feel like a new woman and wonder why you put up with it for so long. I promise! As for the kids...set up a court order for every weekend or what evers best. Tell DP MIL that ur just letting the dust lie with the kids are they are upset. change ur mobile and just contact Dp on email and change locks. There is light at the end of tunnel honey!! pick urself up brush urself off and start new year year as u mean to go on.....free! xxx

pigletmania Sat 29-Dec-12 17:03:19

There is nothing to talk about he is an abusive bully, he has shown his true colours. If you want your wretched situation to change for the better a life without him is best, so please don't go back to him

ariane5 Sat 29-Dec-12 17:07:09

I will not be letting him come back.

I think I will have no choice but to let him see dcs.I can live with that but it will be strictly on my terms.

I do not work (dcs have health problems) not sure what I will do about money.I have been on IS previously but was not married then so not sure what I will need to do as obviously will need proof we are no longer together? Or is dh expected to support us? I don't think he would be able to given his interesting finances?

MalibuStac Sat 29-Dec-12 17:16:21

Read all the thread and totally agree with your decision to tell him to leave. He's never going to change.

Regarding benefits you have to call dwp (number online) apply for income support/housing benefit/council tax benefit. Due to your children having a disability you will be entitiled to carers allowance. You'll have to contact tax credits office but you will also be entitled to money from them. To be honest given that your scrimping so much you'll probs find your better off.

Good luck with the future and stay strong. He doesn't deserve you all.

that's why i said call the council and get his name removed as an occupant - tell them you have separated and you need a new lease proving he does not live there as he has been running up debts. you can call tax credits people, benefits office etc on monday and tell them you have split up and he is no longer living there and they will make the adjustments to your benefits - tax credits will go up and you will be entitled to (presumably full) housing benefit and council tax benefit. make a list of people you need to call monday.

i've lived on incapacity benefit and child tax credits, HB etc before (for quite a while, only recently gone back to work) and it's doable with a child - yours will all be far higher because you have four children and they all qualify for disability elements and you won't have to go on to income support if you are their carer -but if you do you have children under five anyway so there'll be no hassle to work for now. you have your hands full enough.

i promise you finances will be ok - i'm willing to bet you will be far better off once you're up and running and in total control of the finances.

Shelby2010 Sat 29-Dec-12 17:30:14

I'm sure other posters know more about this, but I think you should see a solicitor (or Citizens' Advice) due to you being liable for DH's debts if you are married. My understanding is that you may need to become legally separated before you can untangle your finances from his.

I remember when me and xh split his solicitor arranged some sort of financial thing for me to sign so exh wouldn't be responsible for any debt I got into.

Funny as he was the one in debt not me

ratbagcatbag Sat 29-Dec-12 17:38:55

My dad was like this and he left us with tons of debt (20k plus) even though mum was married to him but as she was on disability benefit the only debt she was liable for was the one shed jointly signed for, everybody else left her alone.

Agree with other who say go onto experian later and download your report, it will show you your stuff and ex DH stuff too, so at least you know if there's anything else lurking.

My mum was and is tons happier now she has control over everything. Good luck

Jux Sat 29-Dec-12 18:24:02

Yes, get a solicitor as soon as you can to get finances untangled. The experian report will help with that, you will see exactly what has your name on it. Try to get that done before you speak to xh.

Add up all the debts his family have racked up with you, and any other debts there may be which are brought to light by your credit report. Once you know the full scale of the damage you would be able to talk to your xh. Personally, I would tell him that until all of it is repaid you will not even start considering any sort of reconciliation.

I would also be talking to the solicitor about supervised contact for the children. Remember too, that it is their right to see yheir father, not his to see them. (And the rest of his family have no rights at all, so don't let them bully you. If they try, just hang up. If they continue, call the police.)

nkf Sat 29-Dec-12 18:25:13

You need to get planning now. Write a list. You have lots to do but it will be so worth it. Good luck.

cees Sat 29-Dec-12 18:43:14

You can do this for yourself and those lovely children of yours, stay strong.

mumagain38 Sat 29-Dec-12 19:26:29

Agree with jux!!! Xx

buildingmycorestrength Sat 29-Dec-12 19:41:03

ariane, you are doing great. What a day! You must be exhausted.

You do need to do some planning, but you also need to make sure your mum understands what is going on and stops trying to smooth everything over. She may find this hard too, and (I don't know you at all of course, so take this with a slug of salt) may in fact be a role model for your earlier acceptance of an abusive situation. So just be aware that she might not just 'get it' right away.

Also, think you need to just run a bath and have a glass of wine/cup of tea and pat yourself on the back. This is the first step in a long journey towards a better life and you will need your strength. If you pray, get praying! If you have an old friend who might understand, call them. If anyone has ever given you a sign that they will support you in rough times, call it in.

Thinking of you.

MalibuStac Sun 30-Dec-12 14:22:36

Are you ok Ariane?

ariane5 Sun 30-Dec-12 14:57:48

Not having a good day, dd2 unwell and Iam really tired and stressed.

school holidays, christmas, break-up, etc etc all at once. bound to be tough. it will get easier. even a week from now will be easier than today because some of your children will be at school. try not to despair x

ariane5 Sun 30-Dec-12 15:48:25

I think it all seems too much to deal with because I've had no sleep again due to dd2 being unwell.

I'm hoping she will be better soon and then I can get some sort of routine back in place and start sorting things out.I have a lot to do tomorrow phoning council/benefits etc.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sun 30-Dec-12 15:49:53

Stay strong. You have done the right thing. Yes sometimes things will get tough, but at least it will be things you have control over, not worrying about your DH/family taking your money.

As other have suggested I really think you need to make a list - you have a lot of things to sort out and a list makes things less overwhelming. As a start, and I'm sure other MNers will help with details and prioritise :

Get your DPs name removed as an occupant
Get locks changed
Pack your DPs stuff (can you send it to his mum's in a taxi?)
Check your credit rating
Speak to DWP re benefits
Speak to tax credits
Speak to CSA regarding maintenance payments
Speak to solicitor re initiating divorce proceedings, and
Speak to solicitor re formalising contact arrangements with your children

MalibuStac Sun 30-Dec-12 19:40:39

You can do this ariane its just a lot to take in. Hope dd2 is better soon.

aamia Sun 30-Dec-12 20:18:32

As a mum with children who receive dla you will probably qualify for carer's allowance if they get the middle or higher level. I have a friend with a child who gets dla for one dc, so she gets carer's allowance, housing benefit, council tax benefit, child benefit, dla for that child. Think that is it but there is a benefits calculator on the government website www.gov.uk/benefits-adviser . Anyway the point is that she manages fine for money and so will you smile .

festivelyfocussed Sun 30-Dec-12 21:04:29

Ariane5 you have been amazing through all this.
You're dealing with a very difficult situation admirably and this becomes even more difficult as things appear to calm down. Ppl might suggest that you give him another chance and it can be easy to start to feel sorry for your dh,clouding your judgement. I think you'dget good advice and support from women's aid. Look them up online and you'll see links to local services.
Your children are very lucky to have you on their side.

ariane5 Sun 30-Dec-12 22:40:27

I wouldn't give him another chance.I can't do it I know the dcs would suffer it has been bad enough lately how much they have had to go without.

Tomorrow after taking dd2 to gps I will be phoning everybody I need to and sorting things out.I had carers allowance before when I was living alone (and I was much better off then as a single parent so hopefully it'll be the same now). I really thought marrying dh/living off his wages/being a family was the right thing to do, I had hoped he would change and I gave him chance after chance but he just used me for money.

I am trying to think about things in a practical sense as I don't want to feel overwhelmed and get upset as I need to keep things calm for the children but it is difficult.

pigletmania Sun 30-Dec-12 22:57:51

You are so doing the right thing. Look forward now and makes list of things you need to do and tck them off as you go along

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Mon 31-Dec-12 00:51:26

Well done op, you are making positives steps in order to make a happy future for you and your dc.
Don't let any of them get you down, you are doing brilliantly x

Jux Mon 31-Dec-12 01:00:24

Hope dd2 recovers quickly. You are doing really well. I've no doubt you'll be better off without someone leeching money off you.

Do you not get carers' allowance when you're married? I had no idea.

Isabeller Mon 31-Dec-12 01:07:51

Read the start of your thread with concern then jumped to last page and so impressed you are dealing with the situation and being practical.

Your DCs are really lucky to have such a wonderful and determined Mum, good luck with everything x

AllOverIt Mon 31-Dec-12 08:00:52

You're doing brilliantly OP. I hope your DD gets better soon.

peaceandlovebunny Mon 31-Dec-12 08:41:51

keep going, ariane5. its so hard but you can do it, for a better life for yourself and your children.

ariane5 Mon 31-Dec-12 15:20:01

Having such a difficult day.

Dd still really unwell so getting anything done is a struggle.phoned council but couldn't speak to my housing officer.made couple of other phoinecalls so getting there.

Will keep trying to get things sorted and hopefully dd will get better soon so I can get properly organised .

just keep chipping away at it. fingers crossed for dd getting better quickly.

ariane5 Mon 31-Dec-12 15:53:43

Thankyou-off to gp again now as she has to have a blood test. So busy and overwhelmed.still no contact from dh which surprises me.

MamaMumra Mon 31-Dec-12 16:14:35

Well done ariane5 - hope your dd is better soon.

blackeyedsusan Mon 31-Dec-12 16:18:52

keep going. you will do it, a bit at a time.

DPotter Mon 31-Dec-12 16:40:14

ariane5 - very best wishes for you and your children for 2013 ! Stay strong

Jux Mon 31-Dec-12 18:16:35

Well done, ariane. Take one step at a time. You do have a lot on your plate, but this is the worst time and will be over. Just remember that "this too shall pass" mantra!

Happy new year to you.

redexpat Mon 31-Dec-12 20:19:54

Happy New Year Ariane. I really hope things develop in the right direction. Kep us posted.

ellee Mon 31-Dec-12 22:26:05

Thank god you've kicked the bastard out.

Thank

GOD

(And I don't say that lightly)

ICBINEG Mon 31-Dec-12 22:41:41

happy new year and good luck with all this!

ariane5 Tue 01-Jan-13 00:37:00

Dd2 is in hospital.she has been diagnosed with type 1 diabetessad

Dh is staying in with her as I couldn't stay with ds2 (he's still bf).
Has been an awful day she was so poorly and on top of all the other health problems dcs have this is just awful.
I am so unhappy.

drjohnsonscat Tue 01-Jan-13 00:45:26

Oh so sorry. What a horrible time for you and DCs. Have no constructive advice but just posting for moral support. You are doing the right thing and things will get easier because you are obviously strong and doing all the right things although the universe is throwing all it's got at you right now. Love and strength to you and DCs.

Jcbmgb Tue 01-Jan-13 00:57:02

Hi Ariane, I'm really sorry to hear the news about your dd, it must be a huge shock for you all and no doubt your dd must have been very poorly prior to her being admitted.
My dh has type 1 diabetes ( diagnosed quite late when he was admitted with ketoacidosis in his mid 30's)
As scary as it seems now, you and your dd will find your way through this and learn to manage the condition.
I know you must be feeling as though life is very unfair and that perhaps you can not cope but you have already proved that you are a survivor and you are able to cope with many many different challenges and still come out the other side.
You have already coped with an unhappy marriage, debt, 4 children, children with disabilities and ill health and you will find the strength to confront this new challenge too.
You need to surround yourself with people who can love and support you and for the time being close yourself off to any people who 'take' from you or drain you - concentrate on each challenge as it comes your way, deal with one thing at a time and as it occurs, you are too exhausted and fragile to try to attempt to make too many huge changes so just focus on the small ones, one at a time to make the situation more manageable.
HTH

Pooka Tue 01-Jan-13 01:02:07

Oh poor you, and poor dd - so overwhelming for you at the moment.

No advice really, just sympathy and best wishes for a happier 2013. This time next year, things WILL be better.

i know it sounds mad but in a way this is good news - she had it anyway and it was making her ill and maybe causing all sorts of problems but now you know and can treat it and maybe she will feel better overall for being on top of it?

you have so much on your plate. glad dh is staying with her. dont' see that as giving in or letting him back in - he's just being her dad and you have to look after the rest of them.

deep breaths - this is really gonna be the worst bit. it always sounds cliche but it time and time again it is my experience that just when all seems pitched black and everything is lost is when the light comes in. don't know if you have a faith or anything but it's there in all the religions, pre bible religions, philosophies and everything down to tarot cards that everything crumbles to pieces for a new start to be born. it's there for a reason - they didn't all just like the same story and include it - they all observed it in life over and over. please hang on to hope, go with it, trust it and give it time. things will turn around and you can cope.

if you pray/meditate/relax/commune with nature/whatever your energy source is then now is the time to tap into it x

PiratePetesPotty Tue 01-Jan-13 08:55:18

OP I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time at the moment. You will get through it though, you have suffered through a hell of a lot at the hands of your DH and his family. You are completely in the right, do not let him tell you otherwise. He sounds vile. From what you have posted it sounds like he got with you in the first place to get 8 grand out of you. His family are NOT taking advantage of him, he is on their side. They (him included) are taking advantage of you. If he loved you he would never have asked you to get that loan out in the first place. He KNEW his mother wouldn't pay you back. Reading your posts has been utterly shocking, it is not a normal way to live. You must be under a huge amount of stress, it will be so much easier once you are free of this horrible family.

aamia Tue 01-Jan-13 11:43:53

You will find that this is manageable and that your dd becomes so much healthier than she has been. I know a little girl who was diagnosed at eleven. it will be fine .

Enfyshedd Tue 01-Jan-13 13:29:02

Ariane5 - Just read this thread & couldn't just leave without sending my best wishes that you will get through this. I think you are a strong enough woman to be raising 4 children, never mind 4 children with illnesses & your DD just being diagnosed with diabeties.

I think getting hold of your local branch of Women's Aid would be useful - they should be able to provide you with advice & support. They might also be able to point you in the direction of other agencies that will be able to help you in the coming months.

I hope you have friends in RL who you're able to rely on at this time for practical help as well as the moral support everyone's offering here.

Good luck for your and your children's future thanks

buildingmycorestrength Tue 01-Jan-13 15:11:32

Hi Ariane, just sending you best wishes. A horrible, exhausting time for you but I think you know that things cannot continue then way they were.

This new diagnosis is so difficult but it might help to make it more and more clear that your kids need you to fight for them.

Thinking of you.

biff23 Tue 01-Jan-13 20:04:27

So sorry about your poor dd. At least they can get her monitored and on the mend. Remember to stick to your guns though, don't be worn down whilst you are so emotionally vulnerable.

Let us know how your dd is doing.

ariane5 Tue 01-Jan-13 23:35:20

Dd is still in hospital and will be staying for a few days untill they have sorted out insulin doses/taught us how to inject etc.

Dh is staying with her again tonight. We are managing to 'get on' in front of dd to keep things nice and calm for her.I don't know what else to do I just want to get dd to be well again.

peaceandlovebunny Wed 02-Jan-13 02:15:25

thinking of you and your children. keep going, ariane5. you are someone very strong and very special.

morning - just a nod to say i'm still thinking of you. hope you're managing x

ariane5 Thu 03-Jan-13 21:12:15

Thankyou. Dd2 still in hospital so things are atill up in the air.its very difficult. Just taking it a day at a time.

buildingmycorestrength Thu 03-Jan-13 21:21:14

Thinking of you. Hope you are getting some sleep.

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