To hope it doesn't happen for my sister in law just yet...(133 Posts)
So my in laws are trying for a baby. they are also planning on going to a wedding next Christmas the other side of the world. They have extracted an offer from my mil to nanny for them if they have a baby by then.
I'm very cross that theyre prepared to take my dc much loved granny away from them at this time of year (they'll be 3 and 1).
MASSIVE backstory: my in laws have been trying for a baby without success for a little over two years. DH and I have tried desperately hard to be supportive (e.g. over the 'announcement' of the pregnancy of our 3mo). In return we get a constant barrage of unwanted parenting advice and open hostility. I know - but can never understand - it must be awful for her. But there is no excuse for:
1. Suggesting my bil takes home a long forgotten toy from my pil that my 2 yo loves 'if its his'
2. Ignores my children
3. Sent a frankly vile email to me last may having refused to see me because i was pregnanct. among my crimes: not asking her before getting pregnant; suggesting we go out for a drink to talk - apparently my lack of alcohol consumption wold have been rubbing it in that i was pregnant and she was not.
4. Sent vile email to mil suggesting if she wants a continuing relationship with her she needs to stop her childcare of my dd for two days a week while i worked.
5. Ignored my birthday. not even a text. Six weeks later we left mil at family gathering as didn't want a confrontation in front of extended family as sil
YABVU to hope that they don't get pregnant
and it really won't matter if your DCs don't have granny close by at Xmas for one year
but your SIL does sound a bit rude and unpleasant
Oops sent too soon.
said she couldn't cope with seeing pregnant me. cue massive paddy about me having left when she had brought my birthday present. one £4 mug. they earn over 100k between them. This Christmas got a 'make your own x kit i can't use because my bfed son ie allergic to the key ingredient (she knew this and told me i wouldntt be able to use while handing over).
6. Constantly tells me to leave my children to cry it out and give up breaatfeeding.
AIBU to want pregnancy not to happen for them just yet so my DC get granny at home next Christmas.
I know I am a bit but the backstory makes me so cross. im constantly trying tp smooth things over and be supportive and each.time i get a metaphorical slap in the face. :-(
so stop trying to smooth things over
she obviously is very resentful of you, but this may change when she has her own baby
just be the bigger person and don't let it get to you
I am not wishing for their continued heartbreak that's bollocks. I was semi serious about wanting a month or twos delay. i did not say i didn't want them to have a baby i desperately do. But i'm so so tired of being quizzed about what time my children spend with their gps, of gps being told they need to stop looking after my dc if they want a continued relationship with my sil (incidentally they help our 1 half day / fortnight now im on maternity leave i.e. we all go out together), of having snipes made at what i eat, how i parent, etc. i tried to give my sil a hug yesterday and she ignored me completely. i have done nothing to justify this except for give birth.
What TanteRose said. TBH if they have been TTC for that long, then there is absolutely no guarantee that they will have a baby by next Christmas anyway and if they do it will be very small, so I imagine she will be the worst of the worst PFB mothers and will probably not want to leave it with MIL to go abroad after all. But she is probably continuing to try to live her live as normal because if she says she can't go to the wedding in case of a baby, and no baby arrives - well, what a depressing way to live your life, always in limbo.
She is being a bitter and slighty hysterical PITA towards you, yes, but just try to stop back and see things from her POV for a bit. You are the lucky one here. She is massively jealous, and who can blame her? Rise above it. Have some good grace about it.
Fellatio, one of the issues is that SIL wants MIL to go with them to far-away wedding, as a nanny-type arrangement, thereby depriving OP's DCs of their gran for Xmas
pamplemousse - why would you try and hug someone who snipes at you the whole time? disengage, disengage, disengage...
You sound smug to me. The impression is that you are envious of their successful careers but console yourself by feeling superior because you are the only one who has'succeeded' in giving birth. I don't think you want them to conceive at all and enjoy scoring points over them wherever possible, as well as not wanting your DC to have competition; no wonder they want to avoid you, I would.
You do know a 1yo and 3yo won't give a shit whether their grandparents are there at Christmas or not? The 1yo has no concept of Christmas and I don't think in amongst the Christmas present opening madness your 3yo will be saying 'If only granny was here'
Don't pretend it's about the children, it's about you - you want the grandparents there and are using the children as an excuse. I would suggest that YABU and very selfish.
Oh I see, I though you meant have the baby, so she wouldn't be able to lavish so much attention on yours. Well I don't think it would matter really, in the scheme of things would it? Plenty of people cannot have their relatives with them every Christmas, and your children are so small they won't remember or care anyway. I think you have got yourself worked up over the way SIL has been towards you and you want to have a dig back. I don't think this is about your children at all, really.
I agree she sounds foul towards you, but honestly if you make this all about you/your children you will be being just as childish. Rise above it! she may not even get that baby in 2013. Which would be very sad, and much tougher for her to live with than you not having granny around next Christmas.
Although I agree that needing to take your mother on holiday with you just so you can go to a wedding and have the baby looked after seems a bit OTT. Perhaps it is a child free wedding. In which case if I were her I'd just not commit to going until nearer the time. No baby, go. Baby, don't go.
But whatever she decides, it's really not worth you getting your knickers in a twist over it.
I have my own successful career, thanks!
I don't feel superior at all: it took us several years to conceive our own DC1 and DC2 has significant medical issues that have contributed to PND on my part. I find child-rearing very tough but I love my children with all my heart. I have no parents therefore my DC do have a close relationship with my PIL and one I encourage. They're lovely people. And my DD does ask to see granny; and thankfully also her Aunt and Uncle (her Uncle, my BIL has acknowledged her wife's difficulty, some of the things we've got it in the neck for were done on his advice).
I have not and would not ever be anything but supportive to my BIL and SIL directly. Perhaps that makes me two-faced. Perhaps AIBU was not the place to vent, my real-life friends who know SIL and BIL are very supportive (my SIL for instance once commented at my DD's birthday party about one of the other children being ugly.... it was audible to her parents. I could just have cried at some of the comments made over Christmas.
I'm sorry. IABU. I don't have my own parents so I've borrowed someone else's and the potential for them not being around is quite tough.
dolce I do get a sniff of this from the OP
all the hugs and smoothing over might come across as rather condescending, and that's why SIL feels like she does
Doesn't Granny get a say in this? If she didn't want to go then surely she would say so, personally I would jump at the chance at experiencing Christmas on the other side of the world.
Tante it was a 'hello Happy Christmas' hug. As regards the smoothing over I'm not quite sure what else I could've done???? I didn't want to be the cause of family disharmony by being deliberately mean????
And you're wrong, I'd love DN and DNs, the more children the better as far as I'm concerned. But I would miss my MIL incredibly at Christmas. Extensive psychiatric treatment for my mother meant I didn't get to experience family Christmas's before. And my DD would genuinely miss her Granny.
Granny does clearly get a say and obviously I'd encourage her to go. But I'm still allowed to feel a little sad. It's a slightly complicated situation as SIL has threatened to cut off contact if Granny keeps doing things for my DC.
yeah but, why would you want to hug her, if she is the sort of person who threatens to do ridiculous/mean spirited things...
just be civil to the woman - no more, no less
and I am sorry to hear about your mum - you are lucky to have such a lovely MIL
you are still being U about the Xmas baby/wedding thing
She's obviously a lovely lady who you adore. But maybe your sil is jealous that you've taken her mother too, because you've managed to have children and need a mother figure as you sadly no longer have your own mum.
I can see that your sil has been hurtful, but it is VU to wish her not to get pregnant in the short/medium term
actually, I don't think the SIL is the daughter - she is married to MIL's other son (OP's DH's brother) , right OP?
As others have said YABU about the Christmas wedding thing.
But if you had left that bit out, also left out the bit about hoping they are delayed conceiving, but just said all the stuff about SIL being mean to you then YWBNU to be upset. She must be so sad about not yet getting PG and it must be so hard for her seeing you and her DPs with your DC. But that doesn't mean you can't also feel upset about her treatment of you.
From your subsequent posts I think you know this and are actually dealing with this in the best way in RL, sounds like you just wanted to let off steam?
Yes we're married to brothers, i.e. she's my husband's brother's wife.
Sorry I can see that I was being unreasonable :-( 4am feeding related mental fuzz and all that.
Hey, I feel your pain with the night feeds. Snap.
I meant it when I said it sounds like you're dealing with this well in RL. Families- difficult, eh? Especially at this time of year. Din't let it get to you, just focus on your lovely DCs.
The poor soul sounds twisted with grief. Christmas is a crappy time of year for those struggling with infertility - have a look at the Conception and Infertility boards here. Please just leave her alone to work it through as best she can.
The point that you put first, about your BIL's long lost toy, I'm willing to bet she isn't thinking about being mean to your son at all - she wants it for the child she wants to have.
I can understand how you feel about SIL, although some of her comments could be re childcare being draining for your MIL. The grannies I see at toddler groups etc love seeing their GC, but do comment on how tiring it is, maybe she mentions this to BIL/SIL but not you.
My SIL/BIL have been trying unsuccessfully now for 4yrs, and are getting to an age where it is looking unlikely. We only see SIL once or twice a year (her choice they live just 10 mins from FIL and we tell them when we are coming up, we see more of BIL (DH'S DB). It is hard as although not openly antagonnistic, we are always on egg shells, especiallly as our dc ask us why they don't have children (thankfully not in front of them - unlike FIL). It will hopefully be better for you once they do have children, so if I were you I would be wishing it on.
In terms of Australia, it might be nice for MIL to go, I've never been and would swop a day babysitting for a free holiday, she will probably be PFB the rest of the time. Anyway due to passports etc they would probably need to concieve in next 2 months or so, even if they don't tell you until 12 weeks then you still have 6 months notice to make other plans, go on holiday or plan the best family Christmas ever. The children really won't remember it and you can make it exciting for them with SKYPE etc.
Just re read and sounds as if we don't support our BIL/SIL, we would love them to have dc, but it can be hard in a tense situation when you have the dc and they don't, hence I can see how the OP might feel, esp as the SIL does sound as if she isn't coping well. However we only have to be in that position when we see/ talk to /think about them, they are in that position every single day, must be awful, I remember the pain of the negative tests etc, but it all goes when you have your baby, they live with that every day/week/month.
Yabu. My bil's wife cannot handle that we have 4 children while she sadly lost the only one they conceived earlier this year. She is 10 years older than I and bil had already had a vasectomy when they met (was reversed). While I think she is being unreasonable for cutting us out because we have children when she does not, both of us through the life choices we have made, at least initially, I can sympathise with her desire to have a child and feel awful that, despite thinking she is the most selfish creature ever and that a baby is just an accessory to her, she may never get to hold her own baby in her arms. She does not understand how I genuinely can feel this for her and feels I am rubbing it in to spite her that I fell pregnant relatively easily not once or even twice but 3 times.
It could well come to pass that sil falls pregnant this year and is hugely pregnant at the time of the wedding. She may not be able to go. Perhaps it would be kinder to stress the implications of such plans to conceive, what if she doesn't fall straight away, what if she doesn't have an easy pregnancy. Wouldn't she be better to either put off plans to conceive or perhaps consider not going to the wedding until nearer the time in case she does get pregnant and is then at a stage where she cannot travel. But emphasising you are looking forward to having a new niece/nephew.
Either way yab selfish wanting gp to yourself. Sooner or later you are going to have to share them. Part and parcel of siblings having children
how dare they!
My sister had children before I. It was about 7 years before I did so dn1&2 had a good long run of being the only grandchildren. My parents often feel torn that they do not have the relationship with my children that they want because they are so entrenched in the lives of my sister and her children. It's not a fair position to put your children's grandparents in either.
I'm going to swim against the tide here I think.
I simply don't believe that personal unhappiness gives anyone carte blanche to make another person unhappy. So OP's SIL is having trouble conceiving? Very sad for her and her husband. No excuse whatsoever for being so shitty to the OP. I mean, really - telling their joint MIL that she must stop looking after OP's DC or she, SIL, won't have a relationship with MIL? How fucking spiteful is that? This grown woman is making the OP her whipping boy, and that is beyond unfair.
OP, stop pandering to this overgrown toddler. Call her on her behaviour, every damned time. "Did you mean to be so rude?" is a good catch-all phrase, but I'd be inclined to be blunter with her - "Will you still be this horrible to me when you conceive?" Stop being nice to her, stop trying to smooth things over - it can't be done. Get your DH to tell his brother that he needs to have a word too. There's been too much pussyfooting around this spiteful bitch for too long. I suspect she'd still be a cow if they'd conceived on first attempt, she'd just be using a different stick to beat the OP with.
I've been the SIL in this situation. TTC and then fertility treatment while my SIL (we are married to brothers) popped out 2 babies effortlessly (whether or not it was effortless is irrelevant, that's how it always looks, eh?).
I couldn't go to family functions, actively avoided them. They would make me vomit, literally retch and retch - some extreme stress reaction I expect. I cried and cried and cried I couldn't believe life could be that unfair. What had I done differently in life to deserve a life of no babies? It was hell, but always extremely awkward for the whole family.
I've since had 2 girls. We have all discussed it family and I have 'apologised' but truthfully unless you know what it's like you haven't got a clue.
Have some empathy, sympathy and patience. The poor women is suffering, she is in absolute AGONY. Each month of not conceiving feels like another bereavement. Don't ever wish for 'another couple of months' for them to wait. That makes my skin crawl with your insensitivity.
If I was you I would rather granny was gone next Christmas before your children are any older, as they are too young to miss her too much. Future Christmases will be more important.
Glad you realised ywbu.
Now I can say how tough it sounds dealing with your SIL, from what you've written she sounds a bit unhinged! How long have they been together - I wonder if it weren't about the dc there would be something else she would be using to portray her jealousy of you?
OP, because you are so worked up over something that may not even happen, IMO you sound like you don't want your SIL to EVER have a baby.
I believe you may secretly enjoy having 'one over her'.
I think you are being unfair but you obviously realise that. It sounds like your MIL loves you all very much and very probably feels caught in the middle of everything which is a bit unfair on her.
However I also agree that no one has the right to treat you like shit and expect you not to say anything but do bear in mind that she is probably crippled with grief every month when she realises that, yet again, she is not pregnant. It messes with your head.
I can say what you are saying to a degree whereyouleftit about not allowing the SIL to treat the OP badly but saying something like "Will you still be this horrible to me when you conceive?" to someone having difficulty conceiving is beyond cruel IMO.
I'm not sure why behaving like a total bitch because you're having problems conceiving is seen as acceptable behaviour tbh. There are lots of ways to be fulfilled in life without children, and if you like children enough to have them why cut people with children out of your life?
YABU - but she sounds like a hag, so is somewhat understandable. i actually
feel sorry for your MIL as she will be in the no win situation.
I'm with WhereYouLeftIt on this.
If someone else was criticising my parenting, telling me that I should have consulted them before getting pg, threatening to cut off contact with mil because she looks after my dc etc, she would get a huge 'fuck off' from me.
Agree that being unhappy doesn't give anyone the right to behave like a nasty bitch.
OP, you need to stop pandering to this shit. Stop seeing her and stop interacting with her. Let mil sort out her own arrangements. You may well have to share mil once sil has a baby, but that's normal. In the meantime stay away from all discussions with her.
Having been on the receiving end myself while I was pregnant, of a lady who could not conceive, I must say it is an awful situation to be in. It's a constant battle to remain civil, knowing that she's only saying/doing these things because she desperately wants a child, and you are the embodiment of what she desires, and will take it out on you.
But you do have to remain civil. You can't engage, because no matter how vile she is to you, you will look like a dickhead. I just kept my tongue in my head, and kept imagining myself to be in her position. I'd probably be the same.
Yes Megatron, it is cruel - it is meant to be. This woman's cruelty towards the OP is going unchecked by all, and that needs to stop. And if it takes a verbal slap in the face to pull her up short, so be it. She is trying to suck the happiness in her children out of the OP. She is trying to strong-arm the MIL into isolating the OP. She would be reaping what she has been sowing for years.
But I just don't see how saying something like that would make the OP any better than her SIL, do you know what I mean? Like I said I agree that the OP needn't put up with so much shit from her SIL but if she is deliberately cruel back I think that could cause problems with the rest of her family, like her MIL or her DH. Then she would be the bad guy.
At least on the score of the Xmas wedding, you are being UTTERLY unreasonable. You don't own the MIL! And sounds like you've had PLENTY of childcare from her.
I can't believe you've got your knickers in a twist over the other brother maybe getting a "turn" of his own mother, when it's far from even being definite!
Most unreasonable one I've read in ages!
the sister in law is being vile, not the o p. its not her fault if the sil hasn't conceived.
I do know what you mean Megatron, but it's not about maintaining the moral high ground and being 'better' than the SIL. IMO, there is something in cruelty that is addictive, and there is something in acceptance of the cruelty that goads the cruel - in this case, OP's SIL. When she is cruel, she is trying to
destroy hurt the OP, and the OP's attempts to smooth things over are likely just going to make her feel condescended to - 'ah bless, SIL is suffering, let it go, be the bigger person'. That is likely to enrage her, make her feel her sorrow more keenly, and to make her behave ever more cruelly.
By the OP being cruel in return, SIL is not being patted on the head and made to feel small. She is being recognised as an adult who is being called to account for her twattish behaviour. If there's anything to her, SIL might even feel a bit of shame. Regardless, she will have been set a boundary. Right now nobody is calling her on it, and she is raging around in a blind fury. Not good for her, not good for
her whipping boy the OP.
ffs, you have your children, your sil doesn't have kids. Therefore you can simply stay away and enjoy your family, you don't have to interact with her at all.
Back off, leave her alone, your posts make you sound smug and childish.
As for wishing that she wouldn't get pregnant, for any reason . That is unforgivable, and trumps any real or imaginary bitchy thing she may or may not have said or done.
I completely see that the SIL is behaving impossibly towards you. However YABVU to state that you hope that she delays conceiving and that you don't want to share your MIL at Christmas. You cannot control the behaviour of other people around you, you cannot demand to spend every single high day and holiday with a particular group of people because you want to. Your children have no more 'right' to a family Christmas than your (as yet unborn) DN. I remember being internally devastated that our best friends first baby was due on our wedding day, and that they thought they wouldn't be able to come. Bt I congratulated them wholeheartedly and cried on the way home. (As it turned out, baby arrived two weeks early and they were able to come anyway!) but the principle is the same, you have no right to dictate how they organise their family.
one £4 mug. they earn over 100k between them
this kind of sums the OP up, sorry. Unreasonable!
Yanbu to be upst by some of her behaviour.
As someone who TTC'd for 2 years 8 months before we conceived, YABVU to wish she doesn't conceive yet!
My DH and I have been TTC for three years. The idea that anyone would wish the sort of heartbreak and desperate hope we live with on a daily basis on to anyone is breathtaking.
YAB extremely U and downright cruel with it. SIL is clearly a bit unhinged by the whole TTC thing and is also behaving unreasonably. Both OP and SIL sound unpleasant, selfish, and spiteful. Both of you should grow up and stop behaving like toddlers.
I'm also with Whereyouleft it. Subfertility is not carte blanche to be a bitch. Avoid having any contact with her. There is no point. She is not your friend and if/when she has a baby, she will still be a bitch. Don't be cruel, be there is no need to put up with this shit.
Who is she to tell her MIL that they will cut contact if they continue to look after your daughter. Agony or not, that is inexcusable. It is so far reaching and affects so many people, I would wipe the floor with her. You will never be friends. Fuck being a whipping boy for the likes of her. OP, there is nothing in this relationship that will ever be mutually beneficial.
I can personally attest that infertility can turn a person into the nastiest, selfish, bitterest monster of all. I was that person. It is so awful to see that you're being consumed by this bile, but feeling helpless in its face.
Yes the SIL is being unreasonable. I'd bet on many levels she realises this. Her extreme behaviour would really concern me. Was she always like it?
I'm going to put your thread title and opening paragraph to one side becuase it sounds like youre sleep deprived and venting, which under the circumstances I can sympathise with.
I can't tell how often you see your SIL. If it is often - perhaps you need to minimise contact for a little while. I think one poster above has said something like "why avoid children if you like them enough to want them" - in the booklet they give you in IVF clinics it actually says that you should give yourself permission to avoid baby focused activities.
It does sound as though the SIL is behaving badly; she is saying the things that infertile people think - however almost everyone who is infertile has the sense to not inflict a whole bunch of bitterness on people who are lucky enough to have children.
When we were having trouble conceiving, it seemed like everyone else was having babies and they all seemed to using the names I had set aside on my secret baby name list. This enraged me - but I did have the sense not to share that with the world or people would have thought I was batshit.
I do think you WBU about Christmas - but you've already said so. So why not cut the time you spend with her a bit. She can't / won't control herself and if you do say something like "when you conceive, will you still be horrid" she will always think that you are rubbing her nose in her infertility.
Sorry but you sound pretty unreasonable to me.
Ok so it's not unreasonable to be upset by some of your in-laws' behaviour, but to actually wish that they don't have a child before Christmas when they so desparately want one seems utterly selfish.
Also has it not occurred to you that your children's granny will be the new baby's granny as well (she is not your children's exclusive possession) and also does granny not have the right to decide for herself how she wants to spend her time?!
Also the £4 mug comment is petty - DH and I earn over £100k too but we don't buy expensive gifts as we have a massive mortgage and various other financial commitments so we don't actually have much 'spare' cash and we also have a large family and friendship group so can't afford expensive gifts for everyone. Also maybe they are saving money in case they do need fertility treatment.
But whereyouleftit why can't the OP deal with her SIL's nastiness without making reference to her conceiving? SIL sounds a nightmare and whether she's like that because she's TTC or she's just an unpleasant person i don't suppose any of us on here know and I agree that no one should accept that kind of behaviour from anyone, but it just seems so horrible to almost mock the fact that she hasn't conceived. I don't know, I don't suffer fools gladly but I think that's a step too far.
Another one who agrees with whereyouleftit.
I too have been the one with children tiptoeing around someone who hasn't. It totally affected my pregnancy and bonding (or rather lack of) with my new baby. And for those of you thinking at least you had a baby, it's not as simple as that.
Yes it's terrible that the ops sil hasn't been able to conceive, but this is not the ops fault. The sil has been vile, rude and thoughtless in her comments and she does need pulling up on it.
Op, stop trying to please her, you never will, but pull her up on her comments. There's no need to be rude to her but tell her that you won't stand for er comments any more.
Sorry I think you are being VVVV unreasonable. Its very very difficult when you are struggling to conceive to see others pregnant.
Your SIL has been trying to get pregnant for 2 years and you hope it doesn't happen for them just so that your 1 and 3 year old spend Christmas with their grandparents .
Some of her resentful stuff is truly awful though - even more so as its her MIL not her mum. So she is being U as well. Fair enough to ignore birthday (your BIL is as much to blame for this) but vile to say she won't speak to MIL unless she stops caring for your DD.
You may be right Megatron - I had not considered that it might be seen as mocking, but instead conveyed that the OP was giving SIL the benefit of the doubt that her behaviour was due to TTC-desolation rather than ingrained nastiness whilst also making clear she was being horrible and she was to stop it. But you are right, it could be perceived as mocking.
YABU to hope she does not get pregnant and it does seem a little childish that you say your children will not get to see their granny at xmas if she is being nanny for your in laws. Although it does seem like you SIL has got a few issues of her own and some of the things she has done have been wrong but being unable to conceive can make people very bitter. She probably sees that it has been easy for you to get pregnant and is jealous so try to have some sympathy
I agree with others who think you secretly don't want SIL to have a baby as it would encroach on your perfect world
yabu and horrible
she has as much right to granny being there at Xmas as you do, its not all about you all the time
actually its the granny I feel sorry for, having two DIL like you two, sheesh, poor woman stuck in the middle of it all, doing free childcare for one whilst being moaned at by the other
she probably wants to go to the wedding on a one way ticket to get peace from you both
Your SIL is clearly bitter and resentful and behaved in a not very nice way, but as someone that took three years each time to get pregnant and had IVF, I know just how she feels.
To not want her to get pregnant just so it suits your family is very unreasonable. Try, at least, to imagine the pain of longing for a child when you see others around you becoming parents. It is so hard. I don't excuse her behaviour, but I suggest you rise above the horrid things she has done and just try to be supportive. You say you have tried to support but hoping she doesn't get pregnant is really mean.
Fine to miss MIL at Christmas, but get a grip! They aren't even pregnant yet and you're already competing with them for access to gps. Totally unreasonable to wish continued infertility on them, even if only a few months.
Also time to wise up and realise that you will have to share granny time. For instance, it would be unreasonable to expect your MIL to continue to do childcare 2 days a week unless she is totally happy to do another 2 days for BIL. More likely your dc will have to go to nursery to give granny a chance to childcare for the younger child.
Perhaps SIL is over sensitive to you having got pregnant first and having snapped up all the free childcare to boot! Try being a little more sympathetic.
Even if SIL is a cowbag
I'm also with WhereYouLeftIt.
I do think the OP is unreasonable about the GPs not being there for Christmas next year (maybe). Just have a special time with your DCs yourself. They'll get over it.
But the SiL is beyond vile - who gives a present saying that you won't be able to use it anyway? I'd have handed it straight back!
You have to stop pandering to this awful behaviour. I can't actually believe it's just down to conception problems. Was she ever a nice person?
Can you just imagine how PFB she is going to be when she does have a baby? No-one will be able to breathe near it.
I had a family member who struggled to conceive, and although she was sometimes distressed around pregnant women (understandably), she was never vile to anyone, ever.
I don't think OP is being at all unreasonable. The SIL sounds like a bitch. Whether that is for understandable reasons or not is irrelevant, she is still being a bitch.
It is selfish to want to take a grandparent away from the other side of the family who very much want her company at Christmas just so you can go to a wedding. It is selfish to want to take a toy away from small children for absolutely no reason. It is very selfish to tell a mother that she can't have a good relationship with her adult son because she is a good granny. It is ridiculous to tell someone that they should ask permission before having a child.
Having problems with infertility does not make it ok to do those things, I don't even think it makes it understandable. It would be understandable that she didn't want to see much of OP or her children, and she is free to do that herself, but inflicting her issues on to other people is not understandable and it is not ok.
Your SIL won't conveniently disappear so you have to suck it up I am afraid, be polite and civil, don't bother arranging/suggesting cozy chats or smooth things over as this will just used against you. your MIL is stuck in the middle But let her continue to do things her way, let SIL demand what ever she wants but be secure in the knowledge that your MIL loves your DC very much and will continue to be a great GP.
If they get pregnant then I think the situation will improve as your SIL will have a new focus, then when the baby arrives she will be v busy. If CHristmas next is different then quite frankly so what? I didn't see my parents this Christmas but I took my baby to see them a few weeks ago instead, we had a lovely family meal and then Christmas was a quiet affair.
Let go of the angst/anger you have toward your SIL and things will improve, your head is full her bad behaviour, just let it wash over you and enjoy your lovely family and PIL (MN is full of examples of PIL nightmares but you love yours).
Op you also seem to be missing the irony in your desire that your sil adapts her behaviour to suit you when your entire complaint rests on an objection to her apparently doing the same.
Whilst I agree fertility issues are not a reason to behave like a bitch, I'm not really seeing the "vile behaviour" which appears to amount to a request that the mil potentially accompany them on a holiday and bring a little over sensitive about a request to go out for a drink.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Re the gift is it possible that your sil purchased it before you became aware of your DC's intolerances and them gave it anyway knowing that you could use it at a later date?
Lucky yet to have two children and lovely mil. Your sil is being difficult but is struggling with awful situation. Cut her some slack.
You should be hoping she does get pg then she will ease off on the parenting advice and the whole situation will be easier.
Yanbu to find her behaviour difficult. Yabu to not want her to haunt a baby just so yours can have granny at Christmas. Unbelievable.
Have a baby. Haunting a baby would clearly be unacceptable
YABVVU OP, but I think you have realised that. Your SIL sounds like a bit of a cow. That might be due to the frustrations of ttc or that might be how she is, but it doesn't excuse your selfishness.
I think you don't want to share your MIL and want her to be doting Granny to your children, and your children only.
All this talk of her 'extracting' offers while your MIL looks after your children while you work (if I read that correctly) and not wanting her to be anywhere else at xmas is just childish.
She sounds pretty self centred but she can only bother you if you let her, my brothers ex was like that for the 7 years they were together, she refused to talk to me at all when I was pregnant and made comments about my weight and how she was skinny because she didn't have kids, tried to tell me how to parent because she read books about it etc, I just shrugged and ignored it.
You both sound as bad as each other. You want to dictate where your MIL can and cant soend christmas despite the fact she is her own person whi already gives up two days a week to provide you with free childcare. You also sound very materalistic over presents and the amount spent which says a lot too.
Your SIL should not be rude despite having problems conceiving but she does have the right to ask her MIL to help on a one off trip, after all you ask for help every single week but its only ok when you do so.
Since when was it selfish to hope to spend Christmas with your extended family?
I think you both sound bloody unreasonable.
I thought from the thread title that you were going to say you were having trouble conceiving and struggling with the idea of them managing it first.
As and when they have kids you will need to share granny.
You could be more understanding of how they feel. It's totally normal to be upset by others' pregnancy if you are struggling.
I find your attitude sad.
It's not that I don't want her to be anywhere else, I just feel a bit sad at the prospect of us all not being together at Christmas. And TBH that includes my BIL and SIL's future child, should it arrive. I've cried buckets over this horrible horrible situation. We TTC for 2 years + for my eldest, we started trying to my DS almost immediately because we didn't know when / if it would be happen. To then be told that (in her words) I'd taken her baby because it was her turn is very very hard. Every week of my pregnancy some comment or other was passed directly or indirectly to us about how cruel I'd been. She suggested that I was deliberately cruel by meeting up to explain about being pregnant and then that I should have text her instead. But if I'd have done that it wouldn't have been right.
It wasn't about the value of the present, it was the fact that despite us supposedly being on good terms I wasn't even wished a happy birthday. My BIL had asked us to try not to be around when they were at a family gathering, we obliged and I was called every name under the sun for not being there to receive this birthday present. I feel incredibly sad that it has come to this. I love my husband and his family very much. But all along I've been reduced to grovelling about how I hadn't intended to upset her (which I hadn't) while it was seemingly OK for her to give me a proverbial slap in the face. And I can't comment on her insistence that my parenting is going to produce rude, spoilt children because my natural response to anyone who makes that sort of statement and without any experience of parenting is 'well wait until you have yours'. My SIL is well aware of my bfed son's allergy and the implications. She has asked directly about it. And before I'd even opened the present I was told I wouldn't be able to use it. It also had a half price sticker left on it but I thought I wouldn't mention that as it would be petty....
And I don't want to dictate where MIL spends CHristmas. I would never dream of doing so. But a small part of me would like us all to be together for Christmas, yes. BIL and SIL went travelling over Christmas a couple of years ago and I missed them lots. SIL is fundamentally a nice person but she's got herself in a fix. Maybe I'm just fundamentally not a nice person. They're listed in our wills as the people who would have guardianship of DC if the worst should happen to us.
I just struggle to cope with the constant sniping.
Have you ever thought of getting together with SIL and having a chat? Ask how she is, that sort of thing?
You need to chance your will. Seriously. You can't trust your children to someone who resents their very existence.
OP has already conceded that yes she is BU.
I am also of the mind that her SILs situation is no excuse to treat OP like shite and to try to manipulate her MIL into having/not having a relationship with her.
SIL sounds vile, some of that may be down to her heartache over not yet conceiving, but her behavior is extreme and I suspect that maybe she is just not very nice?
Bad things happen to good people, but sometimes they happen to not nice people too.
Her fertility problems[and her DHs] does not automatically make her a saint.
They're listed as guardians? For heaven's sake why??? However distressing her situation at present, your SiL is being a cow and I don't see that as just being caused by their problem's conceiving.
What do your DH and his brother do about all this?
jess I've tried, really I have, but....
Invites for coffee and cake are rubbing it in because I can't drink dairy because of my bfed son's issues.
Invites for drinks were rubbing it in because I was pregnant and couldn't drink.
I text her to ask how she's doing. I've talked to her about her FI when she's taken the lead, but equally haven't felt able to directly address the issue without some 'in' as I felt it was intrusive.
DH and I have had long chats with her DH about the best road to take. He doesn't really know either TBH and we've got it in the neck for taking his advice on occasion.
I think this has really changed her :-( she was convinced she was going to have issues and now it has happened it's just confirmation that life is as unfair as she expect it to be. I can see that my having another baby before she'd had hers must be incredibly difficult, but he is my baby and my not having him (a situation she suggested would be preferable even after his birth) would not have changed that :-(
Wow your MIL really lucked out when she got you two didn't she
They were listed as guardians before either of us had children (or had started trying for them).
DH's Bro is in a sticky situation. SIL sent some very nasty emails from both of them (i.e. as if he'd signed off on it) which he denied. I don't think he knows what to do. DH is trying to support him (DBIL) too has often I think women get more support than men in those circumstances. DH is upset too but acknowledges that the worst of the behaviour is not directed at him.
You really need to stop giving in to her, until someone pulls her up and tells her she's ring incredibly rude, hurtful and spiteful she will carry on doing it.
So she hasn't been able to conceive yet, it doesn't give ger the right to be a nasty spiteful bitch. I hate to say it but she may never have children, you all going to carry on tiptoeing round her forever?
People behave like this because no one stands up to them. It's time someone told her some home truths - obviously without sinking to her level!
That's a bit harsh Greeny! OP hasn't done anything wrong!
The title and the first paragraph of the OP are wishing continued fertility problems on her SIL, because it will take her children's granny away from them for a short while next Christmas.
That takes a certain kind of special IMO, so I beg to differ Festive.
Haven't read all the posts but if I were you, I would certainly get them removed as your as potential guardians for your children - you need to choose someone who you have observed is good with your children.
I think you are being a bit unreasonable if you hope she won't conceive just because it will mean that your DCs will have one, just one, Chrismas without their gran. There should still be loads of other Christmases to spend with her. But your SiL's general behaviour really is just awful, so I think Uppermid's advice is good.
Your SIL's behaviour is not acceptable, OP and I can appreciate how awkward your relationship is. Infertility can bring out the worst in people, but of course that does not make it okay to attack others.
WRT to Granny's possible trip to Oz next Christmas you need to just accept it. You will still have a good family Christmas and there will be plenty of opportunities in the future to celebrate with granny and your BIL's family.
OP... As you had difficulty conceiving, you might be able to understand better where she is coming from. Regarding pregnancy announcement, you're surprised that a face to face meeting wasn't better received. Really? I would have thought that it would have been obvious that you would have let her know by text/letter/e-mail out of your sight to give her time to get to grips with the fact.
I realise that you're feeling sore about her behaviour (which is horrible, admittedly), but you also come across to me as staking the claim to your MIL at all costs. I wonder also how your MIL feels as you seem to be leaning heavily on her.
I feel for you that you don't have parents of your own but for this reason, I think it's important that you try to cultivate better relationships with other family members (yours and your husband's) - including extended family.
And for goodness sakes, put what you say through a 'SIL-TTC filter' before you say things. You've been there, right?
Lying clearly I don't make these comments to her.
On the pregnancy announcement front we were all supposed to be close. I spoke to several friends who had suffered from infertility about how they would prefer to be told by a close family member and they said face to face. Obviously in this case it might not have been the best move, but we tried, really we did.
MIL: I see her once a fortnight (ish) for an afternoon with the children. I really don't think that is leaning too heavily on her. RE: childcare, she asked specifically if she could be included in the arrangements we made for DD and we agreed together. She did two days a week with my DD for about 9 months term time only 9.00-3pm ish. A big commitment yes, but as I work from home if she ever had another arrangement I stepped in (as I should have as her mother).
RE: the comments about cultivating better relationships, I would put money on my SIL not knowing how I felt about her behaviour.
I wouldn't worry about the Christmas thing but I do think your SIL sounds absolutely awful. There is no way I would allow someone like that to be a guardian to my child and I would get that changed immediately. I am actually already feelilng sorry for her future child as she really does sound a bit unhinged.
Stop trying to meet up with her - it's not benefitting you, and the last thing someone struggling to conceive wants is coffee/drinks with someone who has a baby. That in itself is unreasonable I suppose, but it's just how it is. On some level she will hate you for the enormous good luck you have had.
I agree with Greeny.
I dont think op is being unreasonable-she is hurt and tired and her s-i-l is being a total bitch.of course it is unreasonable to want to prolong her s-i-l's misery but it sounds as though s-i-l is doing her level best to make op miserable too. I hope the inlaws take matters in hand and make sure the s-i-l feels loved and supported but is left in no doubt of the equal love and support for op.
Op's dc may well be the only dgc the grandparents have.They should be allowed to enjoy them.
Thegreylady you are contradicting yourself! Even if you have sympathy for the OP she is being unreasonable to hope that her SIL's infertility lasts longer.
My parents are divorced, as are dp's, meaning we have four sets of grandparents to accommodate at Christmas. Our solution is to have four celebrations spread out over December. Dd (2) bloody loves it- four parties!- and it means her presents are spread out too which I think is good for a v young child.
Christmas Day itself needn't be the only day for a special celebration. Could you arrange something on a different day with mil, IF this scenario comes to pass? Your kids certainly won't quibble over what specific day they celebrate with Granny. Also your sil wouldn't need to be there- bonus!
As for your sil, you've said you know yabu re the baby thing. jealousy is a hugely destructive emotion and it would be good for you to distance yourself, at least emotionally. I know how hard that is as my mil is very jealous of me and it causes some terrible behaviour. I'm not sure I've mastered the art of distancing, but I know it's what I need to do!
The op's actual AIBU question was:
AIBU to want pregnancy not to happen for them just yet so my DC get granny at home next Christmas?
There is absolutely nothing that the sil could do or say that would make it in any way reasonable to hope that someone who has been ttc-ing for over two years wouldn't get pregnant.
One more thing (sorry). With my jealous mil I try my utmost to have compassion, and it really helps me. When she is misbehaving I think, I don't need to score points with this person. I have everything I want and need, I am happy. I don't need to win battles with her and I can rise above her behaviour even if it stings.
One Christmas is nothing when you consider what you have year-round. If you can let it go, you'll be the bigger person.
Good point okthen
Fair enough, OP. You don't have to put up with your SIL's nasty comments either. You're a human being and she needs to treat you like one, make no apologies for that.
Ignore her, distance yourself from her and hope that her behaviour improves when she realises that you won't put up with it anymore.
I wonder if your MIL has any pearls of wisdom to help? You've asked your friends in similar position and been advised from their side, which didn't work, but you tried.
Greeny's on the money, your SIL sounds emotionally damaged and you sound horrendous for not wanting her to fall pregnant until it suits you.
OP has already said she knows she was being unreasonable with regard the sentiment in her title.
You're right mary but I think op has realised this, and acknowledged there are deeper emotional issues at play (on both sides).
Oh and for your original OP, you weren't being unreasonable. It doesn't matter what somebody secretly hopes... they just don't have the power to make it happen so it's moot really. I can't believe the fuss that is being made of wishful thinking... just as long as nobody in your RL knows about it.
I doubt OP would want her SILs pregnancy to be delayed if the SIL wasn't trying to take the family away at Christmas.
If SIL wasn't planning in going to the wedding if she had a baby, then I expect OP wouldn't have ever felt like she wanted the pregnancy delayed.
And considering the SiL is being a vile bitch about so many other things, it's entirely understandable that OP felt the way she did, even if it was unreasonable. She has acknowledged it was unreasonable anyway, and it wasn't like she was hoping the SIL wouldn't get pregnant at all.
She doesn't sound very pleasant but is there any need for the dramatics OP?
You've been crying buckets because your MIL might possibly be away next Christmas?
I think you need a big dose of get over it. You don't have to put up with her nasty behaviour. You're choosing to.
It's a bit of an overreaction to want them not to get pregnant so your dh's mother will be around for Christmas don't you think?
Your dc won't miss her. Frankly, they won't give a shit whether they see her on Christmas Day or the week after.
It's Christmas 2012 right now and you're sad that your dh's family may or may not be around at Christmas 2013. It's quite dramatic is it not?
Well it makes a change from all the posters happy to see the back of their MIL at Xmas! But what happens in future if granny wants to do alternate years with het sons? Or if one of them moves away? Or MIL wants to go on a cruise?
Quite agree waltermissymistletoe. It all sounds a bit over dramatic to me too.
Sorry, should be waltermittymistletoe
quite frankly i think it makes you horrible. And having been the SIL trying to get pg and having my nose rubbed in it every time smug pg SIL saw me, I don't blame your SIL for being a bit prickly.. But the worst part is that you think you have a god given right to have YOUR kids grandmother there for their Xmas just because you got pg first. Your SIL has just as much right to expect her child's grandparents to be there for Christmas as you do - just because you got pg first doesn't mean you get first dibs on all your MIL's time at xmas. And having just had my little girl's first xmas ruined by my SIL, I think you need to look long and hard at your attitude.
SIL of course they have as much right to expect their child's grandparents to be there.... provided they don't choose to spend Christmas the other side of the world. I think that's the key point. By having them their they are depriving mine of their Grandparents for several weeks! I think I'd care less if the wedding was actually on or around Christmas day. It isn't. It's ten days earlier. But they want someone on hand so they can go to see cricket, etc.....
And I haven't been crying buckets over the prospect of my DC grandparents not being around next Christmas, I have however over the horrible situation we all find ourselves in (and yes, obviously it's less horrible for me than my SIL).
Maybe your MIL would like to visit Australia (or wherever the wedding is) have you thought about that? And what would you do if in the future you mil says she wants to go on a cruise over Christmas?
OP you seem to have a sense of ownership and entitlement about your MIL which I find cloying and a bit creepy.
Surely, she'll go if she wants and stay if she wants. If she wants to take the opportunity to have several weeks in Austrailia during their summertime, who would blame her, sounds like a great opportunity. She is a free agent, not answerable to you. You're blaming your SIL for a decision your MIL is going to make?
I don't suppose the fact that she won't be able to provide you with childcare for several weeks is influencing how you feel?
By having them their they are depriving mine of their Grandparents for several weeks!
Several weeks, wow, 14 whole days!?!
I'm not surprised your Sil behaves like a bitch, if she has you to contend with.
Stop focussing on SIL so much, would be my advice. Sack her off, don't socialise with her, as it is not working. Replace her and BIL as legal guardians in the event of your death pronto.
Rest assured, if she does get pregnant the relationship isn't magically going to resolve-she's just going to compete madly with you over MIL and anything else she can think of. Time to detach and let your husbands see each other on their own.
It fascinates me how, when someone has the courage to admit to being less than perfect and to having normal human failings with regard to thinking (as opposed to saying) things that are less than ideal, they are flamed. How perfect all the flamers must be, to never experience jealousy, or selfishness, or unreasonableness!
OP has held her hand up and said, actually, I was feeling grim when I posted that and you're right, i was BU. She thought this thing, she didn't say it out loud or scream it at her SiL, despite what sounds like endless provocation. Which of us has NEVER thought something bad, or unkind or selfish? The self righteousness that sometimes goes on here is horrible
I feel for you, OP - not just for the situation you are in personally but for some of the downright nasty comments on here.
You see there's plenty in your OP where your SIL is being unreasonable but only in the "back story". In relation to going away next Christmas and possibly wanting to take your MIL with her I do not think she is remotely unreasonable. Your DC's won't be traumatised by having one Christmas without their Grandmother there and they can see you before they go away and after they get back if you want
I don't think anyone has the right to demand what their own or their dh's parents do at xmas, or any other time for that matter. IF ils or parents want a holiday at xmas then they are entitled to have one. Likewise no ils or parents should ever be obliged to provide childcare/babysitting. Ours did if we asked and we were very lucky on the one or two occasions a year we had some help.
I think you sound as though you all need to live a little more independently esp as you and year sil obv don't like each other. She's undoubtedly a cow and I don't like my SIL either but I am entirely disengaged from her and she lives thousands of miles away.
We have two dc; I had five pgs. My SIL was the sort of woman who carried twins to 41 weeks, delivered them in three hours without a stitch and EBF both until they were one. I detest her, but I never wished she or anyone else I have eVer known should fail to conceive. That is unkind in every way.
I've typed and rewritten 3 messages...
As I said before, poor Granny.
I agree with other posters who have said that the whole family could probably do with a bit of distance and distraction from each other - you all sounds far to involved
OP you seem to have a sense of ownership and entitlement about your MIL which I find cloying and a bit creepy
This. It's just weird.
You're not in a situation you're creating one out of nothing.
They're allowed to have her for Christmas now, just so long as it's geographically acceptable to you? Frankly, that's just not normal!
The SIL is being horrible.
But really, no granny for your kids at Christmas??
Get over yourself!!
YABU so BU.
So SiL is selfish for suggesting when she has child MIL visits them but ^you* are not selfish for demanding MIL stay for Christmas with the grandchildren she can see all year round.
Right ok then
Whattheoriginalladtft said in bucket loads.
I find your hysteria over your mil not being around for Xmas very odd. Do you not see how horrible your thoughts are?
In their defense, infertility is just awful. You have no understanding of just how bad it feels. I can only describe the daily day long emotion as utter grief and deep loss and animalistic longing rolled into a never ending roller coaster ride of fertility cycles/tests. My own bodies uselessness was always highlighted each time a friend/relative got pregnant. I would never wish infertility upon anyone I love.
I think you should be the adult in all this. She is obviously finding it all really really hard. So choose not to take offence with any of these incidents and see her behavior as a product of her unhappiness about her situation. Her behavior isn't really about you is it? So don't take it personally. Right now, not connecting with your kids and not making too much effort for birthdays etc is her way of coping with very heart wrenching infertility. Yes I understand her behavior isn't ideal but she must feel very mixed up and possibly could be depressed.
Also I think it's really lovely is your Mum looks after SIL's potential baby next Xmas. Share the love and support.
Hey, the OP admitted she was BU and, apart from the original post, it sounds like she is bending over backwards to be considerate to SIL. Cut her some slack people!
I can see how she has been awful to you OP BUT
I can't even begin to imagine how unbearable infertility must be, even when I was trying for DD1 (and we did not have problems) I used to find myself feeling horrible jealousy whenever anyone announced they were pregnant and couldn't bear to be around pregnant people or babies. It is totally irrational. I imagine these feelings are multiplied 1000 fold if they are having problems and it must seem a real possibility that this may never happen for them.
It is one christmas your DC will never in a million years remember this. Why not take the opportunity (if it even arises) to have a really special family christmas, I am sure there will be years to come when you would relish the opportunity to have time at home alone. My PIL are great lovely generous people and we spend every other christmas with them but now I would really like one year to have our own little christmas at home.
Anyway I know you have admitted you ABU, I would give your SIL a wide berth for now and in any event it is hugely unlikely that the issue is even going to arise.
I agree with TheOriginalLadyFT. The responses to private, unexpressed thoughts do seem quite extreme.
YABU , it must be awful for her.
however on one level I would be wishing no pregnancy, she sounds like a complete whackjob , nevermind before pregnancy hormones, ;)
she sounds vile I would just cut her out.
I think the last few negative posts have been about the weird obsession with her MIL as opposed to her wishing infertility on her SIL to be honest.
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