To think adults who can't drive are a nuisance

(664 Posts)
Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 14:07:10

Barring situations where an illness or financial circumstances proscribe it aibu to think adults who can't drive are a PITA. People have to constantly go out of their way to collect/drop them off places; arrange plans around the times that suit the non-driver who can't travel solo but has to tag along with you; always be the designated driver who can't have a drink while the non driver happily slurps a third glass of wine etc etc etc

Yes, I have been spending too much time with a non driving sibling over the family Christmas but AIBU to think that a perfectly functioning adult (who is extremely technically minded) in full time paid employment, should bloody well learn to drive.

OpheliasWeepingWillow Thu 27-Dec-12 14:08:07

Well I don't drive and I say poo to you grin

HerBigChance Thu 27-Dec-12 14:08:22

That depends on what the public transport is like where they live; some of us don't need to drive or to rely on others for lifts.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 14:08:41

Maybe he wants to save the environment.

Has he considered a pony and trap?

OTTMummA Thu 27-Dec-12 14:08:50

You don't have to give them lifts everywhere, do you?
So YABU.

onyx72 Thu 27-Dec-12 14:09:18

Book a cab?

FunnysFuckingFreezing Thu 27-Dec-12 14:09:48

I can't imagine not being able to drive and would think it a fairly essential life skill tbh. I am always a bit hmm about people who can't and wonder why they never learnt. Both BIL's only learned to drive later in life and I did wonder what was wrong with them. So YANBU

KatyPeril Thu 27-Dec-12 14:09:51

I don't drive and never mooch off other people. So there. blows raspberry grin

crashdoll Thu 27-Dec-12 14:10:04

Most people I know who don't drive do it for financial reasons or because they live in central London where driving is really not needed. So, YABU.

WorraLorraTurkey Thu 27-Dec-12 14:10:33

Oh get a grip.

Not everyone wants to drive, can afford to drive or has any desire to drive.

Just because your sibling is self entitled and clearly doesn't want to pay for a taxi, how does that make 'normal' adults who don't drive a nuisance?

This is about you and your sibling, no-one else.

BloominMisteltoeMarvellousWine Thu 27-Dec-12 14:10:38

It's horrible being the non driver!!!

It was so nice when I passed my test and I didn't have to rely on other people.

Now DP uses our car to commute to I am back to replying on public transport and it's shit.

My point is you might feel annoyed but it's also not very nice for the non-driver.

SantasHoHoHo Thu 27-Dec-12 14:10:53

I'm with you OP. I have a close relative who chooses not to drive. They don't want the expense of running a car etc and also feels too old now (53) to get behind the wheel again. (used to drive about 20 years ago). Meanwhile, I'm asked constantly for lifts. I know I could say no but sometimes it's just easier in life to go along with it and choose the battles carefully!!!

BunFagFreddie Thu 27-Dec-12 14:11:09

YAB a tad U. Why should people have to drive just because it's the societal norm? If everyone complied with that, life would be very dull indeed!

LalyRawr Thu 27-Dec-12 14:11:44

My parents and brother were killed in a car crash. I have never willingly set foot in a car since that day.

I walk or get public transport.

If I can't get somewhere via either of those, I don't go.

I once had to be sedated by paramedics for them to get me in an ambulance. I don't give a fuck if you think I'm a PITA, I ain't doing it.

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 14:11:52

But that's the thing. Non drivers are always convinced they don't put other people out because they get the bus to work etc. But they don't realise how often they do impose without realising.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Thu 27-Dec-12 14:12:11

I don't drive and I'm quite happy to take a bus, if anyone wants to see me then they have to drive to see me or pick me up then take me home. I dont want to drive either, the bus to work is annoying but fine and I spend £16 pw on travel, no petrol mot service tax and emergency repairs. I also get to drink and my brother/sister/mum/sdad/nan have to take me home or I stay over, if they were not willing to do this I still wouldn't drive I just wouldn't see them.

lurkerspeaks Thu 27-Dec-12 14:12:31

Their choice not to drive. Their responsibility to arrange to get to places.

(I too have non driving relatives who try this one on.. I bear the cost of running my car, I suffer the inconvenience of not drinking so no I won't necessarily always go out of my way to pick you up..... If your choice not to drive (at least one of them has a licence but 'doesn't like driving') deprives you of social opportunities as you are too tight to pay for a taxi (well paid professional) then that isn't my fault.)

ChelseaSmiles Thu 27-Dec-12 14:12:54

Not everyone wants to drive. It's becoming a massive expense to own a car! Just say NO to giving people lifts.

I don't drive nor do I want to. Lots of buses, trains, metro's and walking for us and my daughter doesn't miss out on activities. I don't expect lifts either.

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 27-Dec-12 14:13:02

It's fine to not be able to drive right up until you start expecting people who can drive to ferry you around at their complete and utter inconvenience without even offering (though I wouldn't take it) petrol money.

I have a couple of friends like that.

I don't however feel the same about taking my Nan places,because 1)she is my Nan 2) she's deaf and blind. I'd rather completely change my plans and give her a lift than let her get public transport on her own. I often do.

So it depends. It can be a pita but in other circumstances I don't give it a second thought.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 14:13:06

There's nothing "wrong" with people who don't drive! hmm

If they generally don't need to most of the year why the heck would they spend a fortune on learning, buying a car, getting insurance, paying the car tax etc?

Eralc Thu 27-Dec-12 14:13:44

I don't drive - I can drive, but I have severe OCD and am petrified of getting into a car. At the moment I am taking steps to rectify it (doing more driving lessons as exposure therapy). Sometimes people are kind enough to offer me lifts, sometimes I miss out. I find it very frustrating not being able to drive, but the psychological distress it causes me makes it very difficult to do it. I don't really appreciate being viewed as a pita because of it.

Tommy Thu 27-Dec-12 14:14:02

I agree with you!

I have a couple of friends whose DHs don't drive and it means they have to do everything - all the ferrying kids around etc. I think driving is a useful lifeskill.

WorraLorraTurkey Thu 27-Dec-12 14:14:20

But that's the thing. Non drivers are always convinced they don't put other people out because they get the bus to work etc. But they don't realise how often they do impose without realising.

All black people look the same

All men are bastards

All women are weak

Do you see how ridiculous you sound?

Not everyone imposes on others because they don't drive. Some people actually use taxis and buses you know....

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 27-Dec-12 14:15:27

Eralc...if you were my friend I would offer you lifts.

I rarely even think about it but have had friends call me up asking if I can drive them home,to a different town to the one I live in, because they've missed their trains. No...wait for the next one!

SantasHoHoHo Thu 27-Dec-12 14:15:41

I also get to drink and my brother/sister/mum/sdad/nan have to take me home or I stay over, if they were not willing to do this I still wouldn't drive I just wouldn't see them.

Wow, really? I think that's a little bit selfish. So you wouldn't go out of your way to see them?

Purple2012 Thu 27-Dec-12 14:15:44

Yabu. Why does a non driver end up imposing on someone? I can drive but gave up my car a couple of years ago for financial reasons. I get the bus to work, I get the bus to meet friends etc. How is that imposing on them?

It's my choice to use public transport and I don't have to justify why I dont have a car. I would love to have a car again. But until we can afford a car and holidays I will stick with the bus.

insancerre Thu 27-Dec-12 14:15:54

lalyRawr, that's awful. My DB died in a car crash too. Which is why I have never learnt to drive.
Do you know what annoys me? People who bloody well judge and think that everyone should be like them. Well, Op, we fucking well are not. So wind your bloody neck in.
<< and breathe>>

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 14:16:24

WorrA

Bit over the top. What about situations where the driving sibling has to do all the ferrying around of an elderly parent; can't help out with lifts and stuff when a relative is in hospital and so on. It's not just about looking for lifts; it's about not being able to help out in a crisis.

SugaricePlumFairy Thu 27-Dec-12 14:16:33

Bit of a mean thread!

I was never confident or probably competent enough to be a good, safe driver. It's safer for others that I'm not on the road actually.

Hope that helps!

I don't drive and don't impose on anyone, ever. I walk to most places get the train or the bus if its too far, I get taxis after a night out. Thanks for the sweeping generalisation though.

crashdoll Thu 27-Dec-12 14:17:47

But that's the thing. Non drivers are always convinced they don't put other people out because they get the bus to work etc. But they don't realise how often they do impose without realising.

How does someone getting the bus to work affect you?!

Purple2012 Thu 27-Dec-12 14:19:10

Also , my husband uses our only car for work. If I need the car to ferry around elderly relatives I can. I also use it for shopping. It is more inconvenient for me as I have to work around my husbands shifts.

SantasHoHoHo Thu 27-Dec-12 14:19:15

Harsh insacerre. The OP is getting at non drivers who impose on her, not just any non drivers.

MerylStrop Thu 27-Dec-12 14:19:15

I don't drive
I walk, or get the bus, or the train
It's very civilised
I occasionally accept a lift from someone if offered and they are going there anyway. I NEVER expect anyone to ferry me anywhere. EVER.
A lot of car drivers are a PITA because they can't seem to walk more than 5 metres in any direction.

FestiveElement Thu 27-Dec-12 14:19:29

I don't think yabu

I have a friend that doesn't drive, and while she is lovely and tries not to put upon anyone else, she does. People feel obliged to ferry her around, or to pick her up from places. She has been invited over to people's houses for dinner parties and then turned up an hour early because that's what the train times dictated and because public transport is such a pain in the arse for her, she understandably doesn't want to hang around doing nothing for an hour. But I think it's very rude to turn up that early.

I know someone else who is lovely that doesn't drive so relies on other people to take her children to and from school. I don't mind helping out and offered to give her child lifts, but I don't like then being asked to do extras on top of what I've offered. I hate having to say no, and I resent being put out by doing favours that I haven't offered.

If these adults could drive themselves, this problem wouldn't exist.

Cortana Thu 27-Dec-12 14:19:29

YABU to lump everyone in together.

My DP doesn't drive. If I can't drive him, he walks or gets a bus. When we were first dating he didn't like being driven when I offered and insisted on petrol money being given. I remember being shocked that he once got a bus home that didn't stop near his house so he walked the remaining 5 miles after a date, rather than ask me.

My friend on the other hand used to ask for lifts all the time, never offered petrol money and never said thanks. Her problem wasn't that she didn't drive, it was that she was a twunt generally.

crashdoll Thu 27-Dec-12 14:19:42

Bit over the top. What about situations where the driving sibling has to do all the ferrying around of an elderly parent; can't help out with lifts and stuff when a relative is in hospital and so on. It's not just about looking for lifts; it's about not being able to help out in a crisis.

So someone should get a car just incase an elderly relative needs 'ferring around'? FFS

coppertop Thu 27-Dec-12 14:20:21

" Non drivers are always convinced they don't put other people out because they get the bus to work etc. But they don't realise how often they do impose without realising."

Well unless I've somehow sleepwalked my way into someone else's passenger seat, I think it's fairly safe to say that I haven't imposed on anyone.

No doubt if everyone did drive, you'd be complaining about how there are too many cars on the roads and how inconsiderate everyone was for driving at the same time as you.

LalyRawr Thu 27-Dec-12 14:20:54

Atthewelles there are this mystical race of people that will drive you places if you ask nicely and give them money...

CatchTheFox Thu 27-Dec-12 14:21:05

i can't drive and it IS a pain in the arse. i can't wait to learn, but money is tight at the moment and we can't afford a car either. so pffffffffffffffff <flicks Vs>

WorraLorraTurkey Thu 27-Dec-12 14:21:12

What about situations where the driving sibling has to do all the ferrying around of an elderly parent; can't help out with lifts and stuff when a relative is in hospital and so on. It's not just about looking for lifts; it's about not being able to help out in a crisis.

Do taxis not run in a crisis? confused

I'm sorry but some people have an unhealthy obsession with cars...to the point where they think their whole life will crumble without one.

I'm 43yrs old and when I was growing up most families managed perfectly well with just one car between them all...and that's if they had a car at all.

No we seem to have got to a stage in the last 30 years where no bugger will walk anywhere or even consider using public transport.

It's ridiculous.

BunFagFreddie Thu 27-Dec-12 14:21:23

Also, how do all these people who think non-drivers are a PITA actually know that they don't have a good reason for not driving?

Fwiw, I have epilepsy and my bipolar and epilepsy meds can make me a bit spaced out, so not really safe to drive. The way people seem to feel entitled to quiz me about my non-driving is frankly very rude. Why tf should I have to disclose my medical history to them and explain myself, just because they think I "should" drive. It's getting to the point where I'm very tempted to tell the next person who quizzes me to mind their own business, it's really just a matter of time!

OP's sibling is obviously different, however, many people just don't want to advertise their personal circumstances to others.

RobinSucksInTheSnow Thu 27-Dec-12 14:22:00

I'm form a place where driving is pretty necessary, due to where we are and the crap public transport. When I learnt to drive I had an older cousin who didn't, we used to take the mick a little. Then my aunt pulled me aside and said he wasn't allowed to drive due to a medical condition but was ashamed to tell us, he'd told us it was because he didn't want to. So YABU if you just assume that people who don't drive tell the absolute truth about it.

Nowadays I'm a non-driver by choice, I moved to an area (greater London) with much better public transport. I've been in a car maybe 4 times in the whole year and I know I've never put anyone out!

Nancy66 Thu 27-Dec-12 14:22:05

I don't care if people drive or not.....but I do get pissed off with people that are very militant non-drivers but very quick to accept an offer of a lift and never offer any petrol money.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Thu 27-Dec-12 14:22:26

I wouldn't be able to help out in a crisis like taking elderly people to hospital even of I did drive, I have two young children and live half hours drive from elderly relatives.

And no Santa probably not, they could come to me but I wouldn't go trekking on a Sunday bus time in winter with two children because they want me to come round for coffee. Quite happy to make them a coffee at mine if they didn't feel like picking me up and taking me home again. Tbh apart from Sunday dinners (not very often) with family everyone comes to me anyway apart from my mum (and she only lives 5minutes down the road)

I'm not prepared to spend my spare money on a car when it would be sat on the drive more time then it's used.

Amytheflag Thu 27-Dec-12 14:22:47

YABU.

WorraLorraTurkey Thu 27-Dec-12 14:22:52

Harsh insacerre. The OP is getting at non drivers who impose on her, not just any non drivers.

No she isn't

She's tarring everyone who doesn't drive with the same brush.

I moved out of 'home' at 17, worked 4 jobs to ,ale ends meet and didn't have enough money or time to learn whilst young, too busy keeping a roof over my head.
I just walked everywhere.

Now I'm learning at the grand old age of 33 as I now live in a rural location.

YABU as you don't know the circumstances as to why they don't drive.

SugarplumMary Thu 27-Dec-12 14:23:33

YABU.

Our shopping is home delivered, we get taxies; buses do a lot of walking, biking.

I can't see how we put anyone out.

We always sort out how to get places at correct times and never ask for help.

We've had two lifts in last two years - as someone at a DC party couldn't believe our 3 year old would happily walk so far as home. They insisted – I accepted one lift with DC and DH another – next party she walked twice as far home with no lift and was happy.

It's people attitudes not the none driving.

My IL don’t drive – they get driven round a lot and do seem to be expectant of others driving them round. They are part of the reason – other being money- that we don’t drive.

FunnysFuckingFreezing Thu 27-Dec-12 14:23:43

So for the folk who don't drive, aren't you even a bit curious about learning? Don't you wish you could?

I learned to drive as soon as I realistically could ie 21 and really can't imagine not being able to. I would resent the lack of freedom. Mind you I do live out in the sticks and have always needed a car.

forgetmenots Thu 27-Dec-12 14:23:49

Only a nuisance if they expect others to drive them. Then it's not a driving problem it's an attitude problem.

I don't drive for medical reasons. I spend a fortune on taxis and public transport. Would never assume or expect a lift, YANBU to think that's a PITA but it's not about being a non-driver! smile

Tee2072 Thu 27-Dec-12 14:24:51

If an elderly relative needed my help, I would pay for a taxi. Probably less than using a car.

I don't drive. I never ask for lifts. I walk or bus or train or taxi.

How is that imposing on a driver.

YABU and mean.

FunnysFuckingFreezing Thu 27-Dec-12 14:25:00

so Sugarplum You don't drive because your IL's don't drive and if you did they would ask for lifts everywhere? that's mad that is grin

There are amazing inventions these days- things such as buses and cabs :D

How about this, instead of insisting that everyone in the world learns how to drive, you just say NO when you don't want to drive people?

Isn't that a bit more efficient?

Anyway it doesn't matter if people know how to drive if they don't have a car, which for many many people is just not a practical thing to own.

ifancyashandy Thu 27-Dec-12 14:26:37

I have failed my test 3 times and had a panic attack behind the wheel. Would you still prefer me to be a driver?

You probably think I'm weak. But up yours. With the greatest respect.

I don't ever ask for lifts, I expect to get public transport and pay for taxis. And if someone offers me a lift, I always offer to pay for petrol

Oh, and on that 'weakness' thing - I run multi million pound budgets and teams of up to 60 people in a very very stressful and public environment. But yeah, I'm weak hmm

insancerre Thu 27-Dec-12 14:26:41

santashohoho From the op, first line in fact- "Barring situations where an illness or financial circumstances proscribe it aibu to think adults who can't drive are a PITA"
That's a very thick tarring brush the op has there.

WorraLorraTurkey Thu 27-Dec-12 14:27:05

Funnys I don't drive and nor does my DH but we both can.

The difference is we choose not to because we don't need to

And we certainly don't put upon anyone for lifts.

Actually I think with the stupid price of petrol and everything else, there'll be a lot more people giving up their cars in the future - if they live somewhere that means they don't actually need one.

monkeymamma Thu 27-Dec-12 14:27:17

Yanbu. And I say this as a non-driver (and self-confessed pita). Currently taking lessons and after nearly 15yrs of trying I hope to pass my test early next year. If everyone on this thread could please keep their fingers crossed for me I'd be very very grateful!

SofaKing Thu 27-Dec-12 14:27:52

What an upsetting post.

So not damaging the environment, contributing to congestion, obesity, and running the risk of killing yourself and other people every time you want to get somewhere fast is selfish behaviour?

Perhaps you should give up your car for a week and manage on public transport. Then maybe you'd realise how ignorant it is to organise meetings somewhere you can only drive to, and then moan if the non-driving person can't make it or asks for a lift?

Yabu. Driving cars causes more deaths than anything else. It really shouldn't be socially acceptable at all, but it is because it is so convenient. Posts like yours are frightening because you can't seem to see driving as the sadly necessary evil it is, not a dangerous pursuit that everyone should be happy to do.

And as and aside, do you realise if the 50% non driving adult population suddenly took to the road congestion would be so bad you couldn't travel anywhere?

SugarplumMary Thu 27-Dec-12 14:28:20

I got the bus when DH was in hospital in a different city - I did need help then I admit someone to look after the DC as it was too late for them by bus.

TBH though they made it plain the DC weren't welcome on the ward anyway - despite Dh being desperate to see them so even driving I'd have needed help.

As soon as he was home - we hired a wheel chair and I pushed him with the DC in tow in various forms to GP then got him on the bus.

NotLinda Thu 27-Dec-12 14:29:08

I have three non driving relatives and we live in a small rural town. every xmas dh and I host, and there are up to 14 people who join us. On top of all the xmas prep and planning, we also end up having to co-ordinate transport for them.

it is very irritating, but also all bound up with other annoying relative issues.

Brandybutter, your attitude sucks. If the OP has even one friend or relative like you, then no wonder they feel as they do.

for me its non driving relatives that are the issue. i have no non driving friends and if i did, i know they'd be considerate as i dont tolerate free loading friends in any form! grin

as an aside, i think my lovely but self absorbed db is genuinely annoyed that my mum and i moved somewhere semi rural, as it makes his visits to see us more tricky transport wise!

fatlazymummy Thu 27-Dec-12 14:29:16

YABU. I don't drive, and it's got fuck all to do with you.

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 14:30:00

I don't drive and I don't expect anyone to ferry me about either.

So shove your car where the sun don't shine.

MerylStrop Thu 27-Dec-12 14:30:38

"It's not a driving problem, it's an attitude problem"
^ this

Lueji Thu 27-Dec-12 14:30:43

I don't care about non-drivers.

Just as long as they're happy to catch the bus or get a cab.

Having said that. I always give lifts when I can. But I draw the line at a 5/10 min radius from where I'm going.

Otherwise, I tell the non-drivers that I'm leaving at x time and they'll be welcome to come if they want. I wouldn't rearrange plans to suit a non-driver who can pay for a cab.

Finally, about not drinking. If you were alone you would automatically be the designated driver. So, if you wanted to drink, you'd get a cab, right? So, why not with the non-driver - and share the bill as well?

I'm afraid YABU.

strumpetpumpkin Thu 27-Dec-12 14:30:52

i dont drive and dont ask people for lifts. well maybe occasionally my mum or my dp, but not often.

I am actually taking driving lessons now, but its hard because i suspect im dyspraxic although nothing diagnosed, but ive been taking lessons for nearly 3 years now and failed 7 times

DontmindifIdo Thu 27-Dec-12 14:31:02

Crashdoll - How does someone getting the bus to work affect you?!

because very few people only need to go to work and back. If you have to rely on public transport or lifts, then you are limiting group meet ups to places on the bus route or giving you a lift, it has to be factored in by everyone else. While you could get a taxi to/from the pub so you don't need a lift, you can also never "take it in turns" to do the driving. You can never be the one to take granny to the hospital, never be the one who gets called at 3am because how would you get there when the buses aren't running etc.

It's not that you have to ask for lifts, the assumption is that a driver will offer.

However, a lot of non-drivers do go out of their way to minimise the effect they have on others, sounds like the OPs siblings don't.

I will be teaching DS as soon as he's old enough to learn to drive, I do think it's an important life skill and even if he can't afford a car for a few years, as I couldn't when I first left home, it will be useful. Having a licence (when I couldn't afford a car) did mean that for example when my DB moved house and needed someone to drive his car when he drove the van he could add me on to his insurance for a couple of days to help out. I was able to take it in turns to drive a hire car on a holiday so someone else didn't always have to be the one driving and not having a drink with dinner etc.

SantasENormaSnob Thu 27-Dec-12 14:31:14

As long as it doesn't impact upon me I couldn't care less tbh.

Although the none drivers I do know seem to rely heavily on others for lifts. Fortunately it's not me they ask grin

DameMargotFountain Thu 27-Dec-12 14:31:45

i can drive, meaning i hold a current driving licence, but choose not too

<only added comment to piss OP off even more>

BunFagFreddie Thu 27-Dec-12 14:31:57

SofaKing, I must applaud you! People really should put the environment over convenience. The UN's Agenda 21 has already outlined that there are plans to get people off the roads, at some point giving up your car will be an inevitability. I'm willing to put money one that.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Thu 27-Dec-12 14:33:57

Could someone give me a really good reason to drive please?

I live in walking distance to shops and school

I get my asda shop done online, also clothes and such

I live in a city

I have 3 different bus routes and a stop right outside my house, I could wait by my window see the bus and run out my door to catch it I live that close to the bus stop

I don't have spare money 7days travel for me is £16

I go on holiday and still use trains and such and have never had a problem

Going out with friends we all catch buses so we can drink anyway, or one person is the driver and gets money off all of us for picking us up and taking us home

My elderly relatives are not that elderly yet and still drive

I am quite capable of walking, catching buses and trains if I want to take dc out and they walk miles and miles sometimes and enjoy it.

For family stuff I have a brother a sister a mum nana and stepdad, someone put of them will be driving and will pick me up. I always give petrol money. If I was driving I would still want a lift off of the nominated driver

I really can't see how a car would benefit my life.

FutTheShuckUp Thu 27-Dec-12 14:35:55

Ineedofbrandybutter- you sound just like the kind of non driver that irritates the OP and many others. Why should you not make any effort to see friends or family?

SugaricePlumFairy Thu 27-Dec-12 14:36:01

OP reserve your irritation for your annoying non driving sibling who's pissing you off grin.

Have another drink, or are you driving? wink

crashdoll Thu 27-Dec-12 14:37:06

DontmindifIdo I don't expect anyone to go out of my way nor to organise my life. How patronising that you think us non-drivers need that! P.S. there are these wonderful inventions called taxis that I tend to utilise quite frequently.

I don't drive for medical reasons but I get a lot of stick for not doing so. It seems to be a topic of conversation in my family even though I organise myself 99.9% of the time.

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 27-Dec-12 14:37:21

InNeed sounds like you don't need one smile

In my day to day life I generally don't need my car,I live very close to the city centre. It is handy for visiting my family though as they don't live particularly close to me and currently driving my car is cheaper than getting the bus shock

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 14:37:32

because very few people only need to go to work and back. If you have to rely on public transport or lifts, then you are limiting group meet ups to places on the bus route or giving you a lift, it has to be factored in by everyone else. While you could get a taxi to/from the pub so you don't need a lift, you can also never "take it in turns" to do the driving. You can never be the one to take granny to the hospital, never be the one who gets called at 3am because how would you get there when the buses aren't running etc.

It's not that you have to ask for lifts, the assumption is that a driver will offer. [QUOTE]

Thank you Don'tmind

You have summed up exactly what I meant.

FestiveElement Thu 27-Dec-12 14:38:12

I'm sure lots of people would be willing to give up their cars if public transport was better, more reliable and less expensive. But that's never going to happen, so people will understandably keep their cars.

I have to have a car because I work in the middle of nowhere and there is shite public transport where I live. On the occasions where I could use public transport, I choose not to because it is more expensive. I live about an hour outside London, and we frequently take the dc into London. It is much much cheaper to pay for the petrol and parking, even in central London, than it is for a family of four to take the train.

LineRunner Thu 27-Dec-12 14:39:23

Bit over the top. What about situations where the driving sibling has to do all the ferrying around of an elderly parent; can't help out with lifts and stuff when a relative is in hospital and so on. It's not just about looking for lifts; it's about not being able to help out in a crisis.

What about siblings and relatives who have moved away or who emigrated? Should they all return to the home town in case an elderly relative needs a lift?

BunFagFreddie Thu 27-Dec-12 14:40:08

I don't understand this designted driver for a night out. People I know usually all chip in for a taxi so everyone can drink.

SantasENormaSnob Thu 27-Dec-12 14:40:48

Brandybutter, so you expect your family to give you lifts or go to you or you won't see them? hmm

Nice.

DizzyHoneyBee Thu 27-Dec-12 14:40:49

I find it annoying when people choose not to drive for no good reason, for example somebody I used to know in their 30s who had passed their driving test and then decided that they didn't want to drive. I used to get asked a lot to give her lifts places.

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 14:41:02

What if you can't afford to run a car?

Should you get into debt in case your old nan needs a lift to the hospital?

Lueji Thu 27-Dec-12 14:41:07

You can never be the one to take granny to the hospital, never be the one who gets called at 3am because how would you get there when the buses aren't running etc.

Cabs.

But there are other things that non-drivers can do for families, I'm sure. :-)
Like having granny at home while she recovers from hospital.

SugarplumMary Thu 27-Dec-12 14:41:12

FunnysFuckingFreezing

We don't drive because of money.

However IL were PITA first few years of us being a parent - honestly it was horrible. We could of then started driving as we did had money in savings then and more time- but transport was good we were in a city and why have something else they could be demanding about.

Now I'd be happy to tell them no now - DH still doesn't want to drive - he cites money and his accident and a close call car accident as a DC but I suspect saying no to his parents wanting driving round is still a factor in there somewhere . Now however there isn’t the money for lessons, insurance and buying a car and we still manage well without.

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 14:41:57

I walk to see my mum, you know, with my legs and everything.

wendybird77 Thu 27-Dec-12 14:42:12

I was that person that didn't drive until I needed to when I had DS1 and was no longer commuting to London. It was a giant PITA not to have a car when I was on maternity - couldn't get to NCT meet ups as no public transport to some places. Also mooched off a friend for lifts (she always offered, but I could never return the favour). Now have a friend who has given up her car for environmental reasons, but is always after rides for her and her kids or complains if people suggest a meet up somewhere she can't get to easily. PITA. IMHO having been on both sides YANBU. Obviously though, it doesn't make sense for everyone.

cinnamonnut Thu 27-Dec-12 14:42:14

YAB COMPLETELY bloody unreasonable. And to another poster, there is nothing "wrong" with people who learn later or not at all.

I'm an adult and plan to learn as and when I need to - which I don't at the moment!

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 14:42:38

Usualsuspect

There is a thread on here about people not reading the OP properly before posting. I suggest you read it.

Enigmosaurus Thu 27-Dec-12 14:43:07

YABU.

We cannot possibly afford driving lessons for me, the cost of theory and practical tests, the cost of a second car, insurance and fuel for it.

Much as I would LOVE to be able to drive, it is impossible at this point in time for me to be able to do so.

snowtunesgirl Thu 27-Dec-12 14:43:16

I don't drive because I live in London and it's too expensive and it would be quicker to take public transport.

OP, YOU are BU, if you're fed up, tell your sibling to take a taxi.

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 14:43:21

I suggest you get off your high horse.

OddBoots Thu 27-Dec-12 14:43:36

It isn't the lack of driving that is a problem, it is the expectation of lifts or that arrangements should revolve around them because they don't drive.

Provided people who want a lift not a taxi/bus/train ask politely for lifts and accept a 'no' if it's given then pay fair petrol money or pay back the favour in another way then they're not being a nuisance.

As far as elderly relatives and the like go, there are other ways to help out so hopefully non-drivers can send food or deal with paperwork instead.

Ifyoulike Thu 27-Dec-12 14:43:39

I'm afraid of driving, had a very bizarre incident many years ago where my mother was trying to teach me, I was crawling alongside a kerb looking for a parking spot, and a child (about 8) suddenly stepped out in front of me. He looked at me and froze, I looked at him and froze, the car was still creeping/crawling forward.

I went into some weird head-space where it was like I was under water and couldn't move. My mum was yelling "Brakes, step on the brakes!", but I wasn't moving, and all I could see was this kid's eyes staring into mine, while the car was still moving forward until it bumped into him and began pushing him forward with his hands on the hood.

Luckily suddenly snapped out of it and hit the brakes, and the kid walked off just fine, but it triggered a very deep and real fear that I simply might not be capable enough of driving without being dangerous and hurting someone.

I live in an area where public transport can get me everywhere, and I do try very hard not to inconvenience anyone (never expect lifts etc and always make own arrangements), but just really not sure I have it in me to drive... I'm not sure it would be a good thing to try and pressure everyone into it either (some people just aren't safe, and know it).

MammaTJ Thu 27-Dec-12 14:43:56

I don't drive but the only person whos drinking it limits, which is a good thing it inconveniences is my DP!! grin

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 14:44:04

I still suggest you read the post properly.

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 14:45:03

I did read it, you are saying us non drivers are a pain. I disagree,it's the way of AIBU.

crashdoll Thu 27-Dec-12 14:45:50

There are some very patronising people on here making sweeping statements such as; non drivers expect arrangements to fit around them. Maybe you just have entitled, selfish friends and should consider looking for new ones?

Megan74 Thu 27-Dec-12 14:46:38

YANBU.

This is a real bug bear of mine. Fine if you don't expect lifts but otherwise very annoying. None of DHs family drive and all all live in the arse end of no where so on the rare occasion we visit, not only do we spend 6 hours getting to them by car but then have to ferry them about so we can all be in the same room. They never visit us as they "can't drive" or bother themselves to book a train. Grrrrr.

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 14:46:45

Yes, Usual but I did specify I wasnt talking about people where financial circumstances proscribed it.

WorraLorraTurkey Thu 27-Dec-12 14:47:11

OP you're really scraping the barrel now with your 'reasons' grin

'Group meetups' don't have to be on the bus route. Some of us use the legs and brains we were given and are quite capable of planning journeys without needing a lift.

I suspect your world would fall apart if you lost your licence tomorrow wouldn't it?

DontmindifIdo Thu 27-Dec-12 14:47:29

But Lueji - the thing is, if there are 2 siblings and neither drives, then cabs will be used, but if one drives and the other doesn't, the driver gets called. In the same way, if 2 siblings live an hour away, they might get called equally, if one lives an hour away and one is in the next street to an elderly relative, the one 5 minutes away is expected to deal with stuff a lot more frequently.

FestiveElement Thu 27-Dec-12 14:47:33

I don't think that people who don't drive always realise that the nice, kind and thoughtful people in their lives that do drive will feel obliged to give lifts, especially when the weather is horrible, or it's late at night. Even if the non driver doesn't ask, always offers petrol money, they will still be making nice people feel obliged to do them favours, whether they intend to or not.

cinnamonnut Thu 27-Dec-12 14:48:18

The post is just moronic. I find some DRIVERS a PITA, parking in ridiculous places and blocking a route so a fire engine probably couldn't fit down it. But I would never be so rude as to suggest that all drivers are like that.

Seriously, get over it. Our culture has a bloody unhealthy dependency on cars.

MistletoeAndMerryChristmas Thu 27-Dec-12 14:48:27

DH and I don't drive.

We get on buses and trams, i find it much easier then being picked up and getting all the kids in the car.

We are saving for a car this year though as after years and 4 kids its starting to grate a little, for me anyways.

I feel restricted.

He will drive, I won't.

Jenny70 Thu 27-Dec-12 14:49:10

I don't drive, but can't recall the last time a friend drove me anywhere either - I always meet them there (and take public transport or cab)... I go to their house, they come to mine, we meet at a mutual convenient place etc.

Quite frankly I am no nuisance - and if your relatives and friends are then blame them, not EVERYONE who doesn't drive.

Selfish much?

crashdoll Thu 27-Dec-12 14:49:28

In the same way, if 2 siblings live an hour away, they might get called equally, if one lives an hour away and one is in the next street to an elderly relative, the one 5 minutes away is expected to deal with stuff a lot more frequently

I think the solution is to ensure you all live equal distances from your parents and any other relatives who are either old or prone to illness. It seems like a totally workable situation.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Thu 27-Dec-12 14:50:11

Well my sister moved far away, I work with my mum so I do t need to go over and see her and my nan drives and pops in for a coffee every Tuesday while she's already in the area. Have no need to traipse on a bus with my dc after work to go and see them.

Seeing family is not a good enough reason for me to have no money when I see some of them every day and others at least once a week as they are passing anyway.

Also I don't wish to contribute any more pollution to the earth, I would say drivers are the selfish ones really.

whistlestopcafe Thu 27-Dec-12 14:50:29

I can drive. Can't afford to run a car though. I never accept lifts from people and once walked 3 miles in the snow when heavily pregnant because I didn't want to ask a friend for a lift, I didn't ask for a lift because they had been slagging someone off because they were fed up of ferrying her around.

What does annoy me is when people arrange to meet at a lovely picturesque spot in the country that is not accessible by public transport and then they moan because they never see you anymore.

When I had a car I was always giving people lifts it never bothered me in the slightest.

CreamOfTomatoSoup Thu 27-Dec-12 14:51:40

I find people who expect everyone to drive and want to meet up in ridiculously far out shit places a PITA. They always assume everyone drives and then look at you like a freak because you don't. They also use driving as an excuse for not having a drink when actually they're really uptight and could easily have gotten the train, left the car at home and had a bit of fun.
YABU.

cinnamonnut Thu 27-Dec-12 14:52:10

I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one disagreeing vehemently with the OP here.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 14:52:14

OP - lots of people don't drive because they just don't want to for one reason or another.

I drive and if I want to offer people lifts I will. If I don't want to then I won't.

It's called free will.

crashdoll Thu 27-Dec-12 14:52:17

I don't think that people who don't drive always realise that the nice, kind and thoughtful people in their lives that do drive will feel obliged to give lifts, especially when the weather is horrible, or it's late at night. Even if the non driver doesn't ask, always offers petrol money, they will still be making nice people feel obliged to do them favours, whether they intend to or not.

LOL

Non drivers, you are a burden on 'nice, kind and thoughtful' drivers.

Oooh I have one...

Disabled people, you are a burden on 'nice, kind and thoughtful' non-disabled people who just want to sit down in peace in any seat on the bus!

No? Not ok?!

Lueji Thu 27-Dec-12 14:52:41

I think the solution is to ensure you all live equal distances from your parents and any other relatives who are either old or prone to illness. It seems like a totally workable situation.
LOL

RyleDup Thu 27-Dec-12 14:53:24

YABU op. I have friends that don't drive, they have never put upon me to drive them around. If I do it, its because I want to. If you feel that strongly about it then I suggest you refuse to be the driver.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 14:54:06

And if I didn't have to drive due to work location then Id probably not bother.

I worry about greenhouses gases you see.

LineRunner Thu 27-Dec-12 14:54:28

I think you expanded on your thesis is a much less 'magnanimous' way in your subsequent posts, though, OP.

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 14:55:23

I suspect if my sibling was reading this thread she would be on here fulminating 'it's my business if I don't drive. I don't expect lifts and am happy to use public transport' and so on. I don't think non drivers are knowingly or deliberately putting upon people; just that they don't realise how often people are gritting their teeth as they smilingly offer them a lift home in the lashing rain even though it's twenty minutes out of their way or sighing as, yet again, they sip a 7Up on Christmas day because they have to drive elderly mother home afterwards because the non driver can't offer to do it for a change.

Mind you I do live out in the sticks and have always needed a car

You can never be the one to take granny to the hospital, never be the one who gets called at 3am because how would you get there when the buses aren't running etc.

That depends on where you live. It is cheaper to get taxis than to pay for hospital parking, the parking is away from the hospital entrance, so you couldn't take a ill person by yourself anyway.

If it is the middle of the night, the ambulance service should be used, tbh.

We are well served in Liverpool for hospitals, though.

My mother is attending Clatterbridge, they prefer her to travel in hospital transport as the radiation treatment could break a rib, or make her feel very unsteady, so they like to see her home.

The meeting up senario doesn't happen in the circle that i mix in, because we are all drinkers and we always figure in taxi fares.

I have had cars in the past, at the moment i am not driving but have time to care for my mum, with my middle daughter. My sister (the car driver) works too long hours to be of any help.

I am lucky to be able to buy my DD (17) driving lessons until she passes her test, but most people who live around me cannot and there are little opportunities for teenagers, so it is easy to understand why people don't drive.

I live in one of the most expensive insurance areas in the UK, to run a car you have to need it for work, or to have lots of disposable income.

FestiveElement Thu 27-Dec-12 14:56:24

Crashdoll, that comparison is absolutely ridiculous.

cinnamonnut Thu 27-Dec-12 14:56:25

That's the fault of the people "gritting their teeth" then. They should have some balls and not offer a lift. Don't be ridiculous.

DontmindifIdo Thu 27-Dec-12 14:56:32

Crashdoll - you missed the point, you say that you can get cabs in a crisis, but you'll not need to deal with the crisis if there's a driving sibling who gets called to deal with it instead. As much as people will say "I'll do my fair share just work round it" it's easy to say if you don't get asked as often (in the same way a relative living further away might not even realise how often the other one is being asked to do stuff).

cinnamonnut Thu 27-Dec-12 14:57:07

Oh, and surprisingly, my life doesn't fall apart if someone doesn't offer me a lift! I'm capable of getting myself around without a car.

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 14:57:57

So you begrudge someone a lift in the rain?

You sound a right charmer.

WorraLorraTurkey Thu 27-Dec-12 14:58:01

Oh and just because someone can drive, it doesn't mean they're any good at it.

Some people are just an accident waiting to happen but they're too bloody self centered to use public transport.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 14:58:04

Oh and I love crashdolls solution of all siblings living equidistant lay from aged parents grin

Wouldn't want one person spending more on fuel than another now would we?

FestiveElement Thu 27-Dec-12 14:58:16

They also use driving as an excuse for not having a drink when actually they're really uptight and could easily have gotten the train, left the car at home and had a bit of fun.

People can enjoy themselves without drinking! hmm

If anything, it makes you uptight if you can't enjoy a night out without an alcoholic drink.

noddyholder Thu 27-Dec-12 14:58:40

I am a nuisance ten but never expect anyone to drive me

Again OP, that may be the case in your family, my mum lives within walking distance of those who are happy to have her for Christmas.

She also gets the higher rate attendance allowance, so can afford taxi's.

In my family, we are required to be on call, so often cannot drink, anyway.

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 14:59:01

It's not about 'having balls'. It's about not wanting to appear rude or disobliging.

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 14:59:47

Me and my non-driving sisters do more for my mum than my driving brother ever has.

Thats because we are nice and hes a bit of a twat though.

whistlestopcafe Thu 27-Dec-12 14:59:58

OP you sound very bitter over something which really is a non issue.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 15:00:15

equidistantly even.

Stoopid iPad.

Lueji Thu 27-Dec-12 15:00:17

yet again, they sip a 7Up on Christmas day because they have to drive elderly mother home afterwards because the non driver can't offer to do it for a change.
Surely elderly mother can be taken home in a cab, so that you can drink.
Your choice to leave the car at home or not.
What if you were an only child? Would you blame your mother for not having more children?

Personally, I took DS home by car on Christmas day. So I didn't drink more than a glass of wine at lunch.
PITA DS?

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 15:00:20

Oh, behave Usual.

cinnamonnut Thu 27-Dec-12 15:00:54

Ah, I see then - we should all drive and have a car just so poor drivers don't feel obliged to offer lifts when it's raining.

hmm

ImperialSantaKnickers Thu 27-Dec-12 15:01:20

I'm constantly amazed at the number of people who don't read OPs, and then respond to the wrong question. This thread's been a classic example - the very first sentence is 'Barring situations where an illness or financial circumstances proscribe it aibu to think adults who can't drive are a PITA.' And then a dozen posters write in all upset that the OP is calling them a PITA, because they are not able to drive for various medical reasons/can't afford to learn. Excuse me????

crashdoll Thu 27-Dec-12 15:01:57

Of course my comparison was ridiculous, that was the bloody point! grin That post was ridiculous labelling drivers as 'kind'. It's stupid to label one group of people in a favourable light to suit your own agenda.

cinnamonnut Thu 27-Dec-12 15:02:04

What about the posters who don't drive for reasons other than illness and financial circumstances?

FestiveElement Thu 27-Dec-12 15:02:09

So you begrudge someone a lift in the rain?

If its well out of my way and going to make me get home even later than it would have been when it was already going to be a late night, yes, I do. As is my prerogative. I'd also begrudge it on behalf of my husband who doesn't drink so often gives people lifts, when he's been at work that day and already had to drive for two or more hours.

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 15:02:15

Those poor put upon drivers with their painted on smiles. sad

MerylStrop Thu 27-Dec-12 15:02:47

Atthewelles, you are only talking about your own circumstances.

Most non-drivers take responsibility for themselves, as this thread attests. if your sibling treats you like a doormat that's your problem.

World would be a better place if owning a car became as socially inacceptable as smoking.

FestiveElement Thu 27-Dec-12 15:03:47

Ah, I see then - we should all drive and have a car just so poor drivers don't feel obliged to offer lifts when it's raining

No, of course not. You just shouldn't believe that you never put anyone else out unless you are never offered lifts.

MerylStrop Thu 27-Dec-12 15:03:51

LOL at usual suspect

insancerre Thu 27-Dec-12 15:03:58

I have an umbrella- it's very useful when it's raining and unlike the wicked witch of the west, non-drivers do not melt when it rains.

cinnamonnut Thu 27-Dec-12 15:04:01

Usual grin

WorraLorraTurkey Thu 27-Dec-12 15:04:20

* I don't think non drivers are knowingly or deliberately putting upon people; just that they don't realise how often people are gritting their teeth as they smilingly offer them a lift home in the lashing rain even though it's twenty minutes out of their way or sighing as, yet again, they sip a 7Up on Christmas day because they have to drive elderly mother home afterwards because the non driver can't offer to do it for a change.*

And perhaps you don't realise the non driver is gritting their teeth wondering what sort of drama llama worries about rain? Is getting wet such a big deal? confused

And again, do you martyr on with your 7UP rather than phone a taxi? If so that's your problem.

You remind me of my DS's friend's Mum who insists on picking her son up from school when it rains. It's a 20 minute walk that's all and she seems to think he's going to dissolve.

That's her business but it pisses me off that she also insists on driving my DS home too...I mean to the point where he gets in the car just to keep her happy confused

LineRunner Thu 27-Dec-12 15:04:30

I think the OP said she DID mind having the 7Up, though, FestiveElement.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 15:04:37

Do you not think your DH is capable of deciding for himself then Festive?

Surely that's his decision? confused

DontmindifIdo Thu 27-Dec-12 15:04:50

worra -
'Group meetups' don't have to be on the bus route. Some of us use the legs and brains we were given and are quite capable of planning journeys without needing a lift.

Whistlestopcafe -
What does annoy me is when people arrange to meet at a lovely picturesque spot in the country that is not accessible by public transport and then they moan because they never see you anymore.

see, in order to avoid Whistlestop's problem, you do have to factor in one person's non-driving in arranging meet ups. Personally, if it's someone I like, I'll factor it in or offer to give them a lift. The person having allowances made for them might never realise it's happening.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 15:07:07

OP YABU for drinking 7Up.

Could at least have splashed out on some Schloer.

LineRunner Thu 27-Dec-12 15:07:57

Do you only mind factoring in non-driving, though, where it's non-related to disability or financial reasons?

Do you make your friends take tests on this beforehand?

FestiveElement Thu 27-Dec-12 15:10:22

Salmotrutta, in theory, you are right. But some people don't like to say no and don't like to appear like they are being selfish if they don't offer. I'd have thought any decent bloke would feel obliged to offer a woman a lift home if its dark and the public transport is either non existent meaning she has to walk a fair distance alone, or is infrequent meaning that she would have to wait at the train station or bus stop alone.

It's just being gentlemanly, and I like that about my DH. I just feel for him when I know he's had enough of driving but then feels like the right thing to do would be to give a lift.

WorraLorraTurkey Thu 27-Dec-12 15:10:31

Dontmind I see what you mean but it would have to be very remote to be unreachable by a taxi from the nearest train station.

whistlestopcafe Thu 27-Dec-12 15:12:39

If I started a thread saying that all car owners are a pain in the arse the consensus would be that I am being unreasonable.

If you feel put upon leave your car at home and ask someone else for a lift for a change.

This thread struck a chord with me because two of my antenatal friends arranged a meet up next week with the children at a family friendly cafe. This morning I received a text saying that the venue has changed and the meet up will be at a museum 10 miles away which is not accessible by public transport. They know damn well that I can't get there. I replied saying I hope you have a nice time but I can't get there so won't be coming. One of them has replied saying "that's a real shame, ds was really looking forward to seeing your ds, you cancelled last time too!"

Yes I cancelled last time because you changed the venue to a remote country pub that I can't get to!

FunnysFuckingFreezing Thu 27-Dec-12 15:13:31

there's a whole lot of sad around today usual. I think it's the post Christmas come down.

FWIW I rarely offer anyone a lift because basically it's a PITA and I am too shellfish.

cinnamonnut Thu 27-Dec-12 15:13:37

Why did they change it whistlestopcafe? Seems pointless as well as unfair.

BunFagFreddie Thu 27-Dec-12 15:14:53

Whilst OP did write 'Barring situations where an illness or financial circumstances proscribe it aibu to think adults who can't drive are a PITA.'

A great many people only choose to disclose their health issues and financial issues to certain people. If you know a PITA non driver, they might just prefer it if you didn't know about their illness etc.

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 15:15:18

I think I'd take the hint Whistle grin

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 15:15:42

Festive- my DH is a good sort too but he makes up his own mind about offering lifts and whatnot. If he offers I don't begrudge it.

Why would I?

It's his choice. What with him being a grown man and all.

FunnysFuckingFreezing Thu 27-Dec-12 15:16:16

Worra that's me then. There are no trains where I live, none at all. Not a rail in sight

Allergictoironing Thu 27-Dec-12 15:16:48

I was lectured by a non-driving friend a few years ago about how she didn't see the need for anyone to have their own car. This was while we were driving through the West Country on holiday together (in my car ofc), deciding where to visit while travelling & finding really obscure off the beaten path places - and I mean literally as we were driving along the lanes she was lecturing me!

I wouldn't say that all adult non-drivers are a pain, but some certainly don't really think about how they can inconvenience others. Also some who are able to live their lives easily e.g. live in a town with good transport & close to relatives, can be a PITA saying that because THEY don't need to drive, then why should anyone else need to.

Lueji Thu 27-Dec-12 15:18:02

Whistle, are cabs to those locations that expensive?

Although, I'd be questioning the friendship if they changed the location without consulting you first.

manicbmc Thu 27-Dec-12 15:19:40

I tried learning to drive and found (after rather a lot of lessons) that I am absolutely awful at it and have no road sense whatsoever - so would it be a good idea for me to drive?

I think it's a silly, sweeping generalisation. Not everyone who doesn't drive then puts upon others for lifts and the ones that do would probably continue to even if they could drive.

LettyAshton Thu 27-Dec-12 15:19:53

I can see both sides here and of course there are many differing situations.

But I do agree that there is a set of people (especially older women, I find) who have never learnt to drive and think they should be chauffered around at their convenience. My mother would never dream of getting a taxi because of the cost, but would quite happily have me drive hundreds of miles back and forth/here there and everywhere without a sniff of a petrol money contribution. And I remember at my wedding my mother's sole concern was the transportation of elderly relatives and what time they would want to leave etc.

whistlestopcafe Thu 27-Dec-12 15:20:21

They changed it Cinnamonnut because they are a bit sick of eating and wanted to do something else which is fair enough. I get the impression sometimes that they think I should hire a car or ask dh to take the day off and take me there. Or perhaps they just don't realise that places that are round the corner in the car can take all day to get to by bus.

Lueji Thu 27-Dec-12 15:21:20

I was lectured by a non-driving friend a few years ago about how she didn't see the need for anyone to have their own car.
She does have a point.
If you don't have a car, you can still rent one to have those random drives up and down the country.

I do have a car, mostly because it is less hassle to go to and from places, than calling a cab, etc.
But I think it would be cheaper in the long run, probably, if you have shops close by and don't need to drive that much.

Anniegetyourgun Thu 27-Dec-12 15:21:51

In one of my more assertive moods I might well have pulled over and said cheerily "out you get, then", and watched her splutter.

FestiveElement Thu 27-Dec-12 15:21:52

Yes, it is his choice, but sometimes people can be more selfless than they should be and they need someone else to point out to them that it's ok for them not to bend over backwards to suit everyone else.

My DH is a softy and will do anything for anyone, he makes it quite easy for others to take advantage of him.

So yes, while it is his choice, as someone who loves him I would prefer him to put himself first sometimes, rather then make a choice to do someone else a favour and then end up over tired because he's got to bed an hour later than he would have done if someone had refused his offer of a lift.

Thankfully he has stopped offering as much as he used to.

FestiveElement Thu 27-Dec-12 15:23:30

Whistle can't you take a taxi to the meet up? The other probably just wanted to go to the museum, there's nothing wrong with that.

LineRunner Thu 27-Dec-12 15:23:50

My Dsis only gets pissed off at me for not driving when she's actually pissed off at me for something else. (Given that she last gave me a lift in 1998.)

SantasHoHoHo Thu 27-Dec-12 15:23:51

I think your friends are inconsiderate Whistle. Even if the new venue had been accessible by car you may have not liked it. It's really not on to change the venue without agreement from ALL parties invited.

Celticlassie Thu 27-Dec-12 15:24:34

Why would you offer people lifts if you resent it so much?
I don't drive because I have no need it. My parents live far away, I walk a lot and live close to excellent public transport links. If someone arranges to meet up somewhere with no public transport links (and they never have) then I wouldn't go. I never take a lift unless the person offering is literally passing my door.
I also think Brits are too reliant on their cars - no wonder the environment's fucked and we're in the midst of an obesity crisis. I work with people who also live within 15 mins walk of their workplace (as I do) and yet drive every day.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 15:25:29

Well good on him for offering less nowadays.

[smil]

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 15:25:53

smile even!

whistlestopcafe Thu 27-Dec-12 15:26:24

grin Atthewellies you are probably right. The thing is I genuinely couldn't give a monkeys if they change the arrangements to my detriment, I'm quite laid back and don't fuss over stuff like that but I am mildly annoyed that they seem to think it's me who has decided not to meet up.

The taxi fare is about £20 each way, If I had that sort of money I could afford a cat.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 15:26:38

That was to Festive - slow typing and fast moving thread!

SantasHoHoHo Thu 27-Dec-12 15:27:25

Few of us really need a car but many of us want one. I could cope without it during the week as I can get good public transport to work. At the weekends it's nice to have a car to get to the more awkward places. I have a friend who also doesn't need a car but chooses not to have one because I can ferry her to the awkward places.

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 15:27:30

I did say in my OP that I'd been spending too much time with my non driving sibling (who is great in every other way).

Okay, maybe a bit of a generalisation but there are a lot of non drivers who just seem to assume that there will always be someone around to give them a lift and there are a lot of drivers who just feel mean if they don't offer someone a lift in the lashing rain or late at night or when they've a lot of shopping to carry etc.
Also, a lot of elderly people see cabs as a huge extravagance and wouldn't dream of allowing one to be called to bring them to a hospital appointment or into town to do a lot of shopping insisting that "I'll just get the bus. It won't be any trouble". To pre-empt that, the driver has to offer to bring them.

whistlestopcafe Thu 27-Dec-12 15:27:42

A car not a cat! grin

Lueji Thu 27-Dec-12 15:28:21

Carrying with you the number of a local cab company might be a good way of being nice without having to offer a lift. grin

The other day, I told a very good friend of mine that I could not give her a lift because I was in a rush to get somewhere. She could take a bus just outside where we were and wouldn't have to wait. We're still good friends, and I did give her a lift when it was pouring and I had time to do it.
It's all about boundaries.

WorraLorraTurkey Thu 27-Dec-12 15:28:29

Well I have to say this is the first thread I've ever read where people are wishing there were more cars on the road.

Only on MN.... grin

Then ask those who don't let their kids play out in the street and 9 times out of 10 they'll say, "It's because there's far more traffic than there was when I was a child"...

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 15:29:06

Yes, not many cats cost you £20 each way! grin

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 15:29:55

My elderly mum catches the bus into town nearly everyday because she has a free bus pass.

Allergictoironing Thu 27-Dec-12 15:30:12

Annie you KNOW this particular woman - you would never have had her in the car in the first place!

Lueji I would also pick her up to go out for the day quite often (though she WAS good at offering petrol money), plus she had 2 other friends who she would go out with (in their cars) on a regular basis. Yes she had shops reasonably close, she was fit & healthy, and lived right by the bus stop. She dismissed my remarks about a farming family I know who had 3 busses each way per WEEK, bus stop about 3 miles from home, nearest shops of any kind by that same bus stop and a disabled family member.

WorraLorraTurkey Thu 27-Dec-12 15:31:26

Also, a lot of elderly people see cabs as a huge extravagance and wouldn't dream of allowing one to be called to bring them to a hospital appointment or into town to do a lot of shopping insisting that "I'll just get the bus. It won't be any trouble". To pre-empt that, the driver has to offer to bring them.

But why does the driver have to 'pre-emt' that and offer to bring them?

Unless they're so arrogant they think elderly people don't know their own minds? hmm

qo Thu 27-Dec-12 15:31:53

I've failed my practical driving test no fewer than 5 times - I literally could not afford to keep going after that. I'm 40 and hate being a non-driver with a passion. When I do a late shift at work, I have to wait an hour and a half for the next bus home, as if doing a late finish isnt bad enough!!

I would rather struggle and put myself out than ask for a lift, I hate inconveniencing anyone for any reason (not just lifts)

LineRunner Thu 27-Dec-12 15:32:50

Older people have a free bus pass, to give them independence.

insancerre Thu 27-Dec-12 15:33:36

or are too senile to get on the right bus and get off at the right bus stop

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 15:34:08

Because Worra a lot of the time they're saying it to 'not be a nuisance'. I would hate to make an elderly relative of mine feel that so would always offer a lift (especially to a hospital appointment) rather than let them set off on a bus. But sometimes I wish my sibling could do it - for instance if it's a day when it's awkward to take time off work.

insancerre Thu 27-Dec-12 15:35:16

But what is wrong with getting a bus to the hospital?

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 15:36:23

My bus is full of elderly people and shopping trolleys doing their own shopping. So not a lot of pre-empting going on in my neck of the woods.

WorraLorraTurkey Thu 27-Dec-12 15:37:25

Then that's up to them isn't it?

They don't want to be a nuisance, they don't want to fork out for a taxi, they're perfectly capable of getting a bus.

Butt out like your brother has and stop with the ridiculous idea that everyone should buy a car just in case someone decides to get the bus to hospital.

Honestly, your brother must think you're being totally ridiculous.

Roseformeplease Thu 27-Dec-12 15:37:51

Am enjoying the number of people telling everyone that non-drivers can get cabs or the bus or walk. This is the metro-centric part of Mumsnet at work. Where I live, there is one taxi driver who is available as and when she wants to be. There is no one else when she is off and she will only drive between three local villages. There are two trains a day in each direction, one a day on Sundays. There is a morning and evening school bus and one other bus to the next town, each way.

The only other alternative, for the non-driver, is to cadge lifts. These are freely offered, and accepted as, in a small community, you will be repaid in other ways: jam, some fish or a helping hand with something.

I live 3 miles from a shop of any description. My children are 3 miles from school. Our nearest supermarket is 45 miles away and does not do home delivery.

But, I think the issue here is not lifts, or car ownership but the assumption (by soem people) that a car owner is really a taxi driver in disguise. The problem is in the relationship between driver and passenger. I too had to stay sober on Christmas Day to pick up and return a non-driving guest. But I offered, and wanted to. yANBU in your situation to say no but YABU to generalise about all non-drivers.

Those of you in cities ABU as well as you seem to forget that we don't all live there!

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 15:38:10

Well, in this LA elderly or non-driving patients can get hospital transport minibuses that pick them up and bring them home.

Admittedly the journey times are variable but the service is there to be used.

Anniegetyourgun Thu 27-Dec-12 15:38:22

You're quite right, Allergic. If she were ever in my car it would be in the boot after I'd strangled her for some equally annoying comment.

You should have taken a video camera with you on that holiday, it would have been an instant YouTube classic.

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 15:38:24

It's ok to get the bus to the hospital you know. In fact it's such a PITA to park at our hospital it's preferable to catch the bus.

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 15:38:25

Nothing in a lot of cases insancerre but I'm talking about situations where someone is very elderly, will be sitting around a waiting room for ages, will be a bit nervous or whatever and you just feel it would be much nicer if someone collected them than left them to walk down to the bus stop and possibly wait for ages. I dont mean elderly people should never get on a bus, just that there are times when it seems awful not to offer a lift, particularly if they're quite frail or not very well.

Allergictoironing Thu 27-Dec-12 15:38:27

insancerre there's no problem IF you are fit & healthy or there's a single bus you can get viryually door to door and be guaranteed a seat. As someone with an intermittant disability, I would be wrecked for a couple of days if I had to stand on a bus for ages, or walk long distances from bus stops, and I'm not what you would class as elderly either.

Lueji Thu 27-Dec-12 15:38:51

Tell your sibling you can't, because of work.
If he complains that he doesn't have a car, then tell him that's what cabs are for.

He CAN do it. He just won't.

I have a friend who doesn't drive, although she has a license (oh, well), and she takes either buses or cabs to hospital for her dad when her H can't.

flow4 Thu 27-Dec-12 15:40:00

I only passed my driving test last year, at the grand old age of forty-something... I raised two kids without a car, commuted, shopped, went to hospital appointments, etc...

At first, it was just an 'accident' that I couldn't drive: I started learning in my teens, but then my mum died and my dad had a nervous breakdown, and life got a bit messy for a while... Then I was a student and couldn't afford it... Then it suited my politics and beliefs about protecting the environment... Then I was a single parent and totally broke...

Finally, I had the spare money and the motivation to learn, basically because it became clear that my elderly father was going to need lifts and help. It still took me over a year to pass my test, which I finally did 2.5 months before he died.

I have very mixed feelings about being a driver now: on the one hand, it gives me much more flexibility and independence: I can go where I want, more-or-less when I want. smile Commuting is much less stressful, because a 5 minute delay means I'm 5 minutes late - not an hour late because I missed a train hmm. And it's satisfying to be able to give lifts to other people who are carless, as I was in until last year. smile

On the other hand, running a car is so expensive that we haven't been able to afford a holiday abroad for the past 3 years - my income allows us one or the other, not both. And my fitness levels have definitely got worse, and driving has made me lazier. sad

I might stop running a car again in a year or two... If I lose my job in the next round of public sector cuts, it will be inevitable. It won't be too much of a loss... Maybe I'll just take up driving again when I'm ready for my mid-life crisis round-the-world road trip?! grin

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 15:40:16

Can't believe the amount of people on here who wouldn't be bothered about elderly and frail parents having to bus or taxi themselves to hospitals. Nice sad

crashdoll Thu 27-Dec-12 15:44:23

Atthewelles That is below the belt. What do you expect us to do, offer to carry them on our backs? Get a car in case an elderly relative needs a hosp appointment? What about those who work FT and cannot take time off work? Or live far away?

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 15:44:28

Look, my MIL is elderly and frail.

Me and DH work.

She gets the patient transport minibus.

It collects her and drops her off.

She also enjoys the companionship of the other elderly folk on it.

KristinaM Thu 27-Dec-12 15:44:32

I'm a driver and I blardy LOVE non drivers. They leave more space on the road for me.they never use disabled or parent and child places in the supermarket car park.they don't park dangerously on the pavement outside the school or nursery.

They keep the public transport system going. They walk or cycle more so are probably more healthy and save the NHS money. They don't pollute the environment or produce CO2. They notice all the potholes on the road and pavement and complain to the Council. They campaign for things like cycle ways and safe walking routes to school.

(((((( ))))))) and xxxxxxx to you all. Have a wine and biscuit on me. Cheers !

SugarplumMary Thu 27-Dec-12 15:44:40

LettyAshton you could be talking about my MIL there. She can't believe my Mother drives.

FIL had more serious reasons – serious accident while he was learning and soon after a sibling killed in a traffic accident. He goes to pieces when he gets behind a wheel.

I was lectured by a non-driving friend a few years ago about how she didn't see the need for anyone to have their own car.

That is just rude. It's also wrong - some places are impossible to live if you don't drive.

We don't drive so we are walking distance to town, 3 + miles, and near a good bus route. I refused to live in a small hamlet with no school or GP and no buses and it was my IL who couldn't understand my reasoning even though we had young DC. We are more rural than we'd like - edge of rural town - but we cope.

whistlestopcafe :Or perhaps they just don't realise that places that are round the corner in the car can take all day to get to by bus.

That is not uncommon IME.

WorraLorraTurkey Thu 27-Dec-12 15:45:01

Oh dear fucking God! grin

No-one's saying they're 'not bothered' about elderly and frail relatives getting to hospital.

Just that you're one nugget short of a Happy Meal if you think that's a good reason for any non driver to go to the expense of buying a car, if they're perfectly happy without one.

And not all elderly people are frail.

whistlestopcafe Thu 27-Dec-12 15:45:06

It made me sad when my sister and mum had to get public transport to get to their hospital appointments. It makes me sad that my Dad has to do the same and he buys his shopping from an expensive 7-11 type shop because he can't get to the large supermarkets because of mobility issues. But what can I do? Get a loan to buy a car and drive 250 miles once a week to help him?

insancerre Thu 27-Dec-12 15:45:09

Atthewelles That's why it is nice for drivers to offer non-drivers lifts.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 15:45:18

Does your LA not do patient transport then OP?

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 15:46:49

My mum is elderly. yes.

But is more than capable of catching a bloody bus, which after all is free.

Lueji Thu 27-Dec-12 15:47:31

You're right, Roseforme

There are always exceptions to the rules.

But even where there's only one taxi driver, surely it can be booked in advance?

But also, as a driver, it doesn't bother me too much to offer lifts to non-drivers, particularly where there are more difficult circumstances.
They are usually reciprocated somehow.

Particularly elderly relatives, usually they are the kind that have done things for us when we were children. So, only fair to help them.
Regardless of siblings or not.

cinnamonnut Thu 27-Dec-12 15:48:15

Merry Christmas to you too KristinaM grin

cinnamonnut Thu 27-Dec-12 15:48:59

Contrary to popular belief, it is possible to step onto a bus, or other mode of public transport, without melting grin

WorraLorraTurkey Thu 27-Dec-12 15:49:10

I'm seeing my 80yr old Dad tomorrow, I might ask him if he thinks I should buy a car in case he has a dentist appointment next week or the cat needs a trip to the vets.

I can see his bemused face now...too polite to ask me if I've finally taken leave of my senses grin

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 15:49:15

No They don't Salmo. My mum would have to get public transport and would arrive home absolutely knackered. No way would I allow that and I know my sister wouldn't be happy about it either.

Worra Do you always pick 'n' mix the bits of posts you wish to argue with as opposed to taking in the entire point? grin

KristinaM Thu 27-Dec-12 15:50:22

< chinks glasses with cinnamon>

LuluMai Thu 27-Dec-12 15:50:35

Some of us simply are incapable of doing it! Why do you assume everyone is able to?

crashdoll Thu 27-Dec-12 15:52:18

Atthewelles What if you and your sister both worked FT? Or lived far away? Or had other responsibilities e.g. disabled child? Shit happens. That's why there's hospital transport/taxis etc.

flow4 Thu 27-Dec-12 15:52:36

Salmo, hospital transport is very variable around the country and not reliable or pleasant in many places. My terminally ill dad had to use it once (before I had passed my driving test), and it (a) picked him up at 8:45 for an 11:30 appointment, (b) left him waiting for 2 hours after his appointment before collecting him to take him home, and (c) altogether meant he had a 6 hour round trip for a 15 minute appointment (and a journey that would have taken about 1.5 hrs by car, including waiting time) and missed his lunch. Not nice when you're dying. sad After that, my brother or I went with him in a taxi, until I passed my driving test...

WorraLorraTurkey Thu 27-Dec-12 15:53:28

Honestly OP I've taken the entire point but I don't see a single good reason here for any 'normal' (and by normal I mean non lift scrounging) non driver to buy themself a car, and add to the traffic and mayhem that's already out there! grin

I've lived here nearly 18yrs and there are neighbours who I have never seen walking...not even to the local shop which is a 4 minute walk.

They're all obsessed with cars and I think some of them unhealthily so.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 15:53:39

Oh, my apologies.

It was my understanding that hospital transport for elderly or disabled patients was a standard thing everywhere!

Sounds like we are very lucky here then.

LineRunner Thu 27-Dec-12 15:54:15

Yeah, that's right, OP, I don't give a shit about frail, elderly people. You know that about me by the miracle of petrol fume inhalation, I presume.

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 15:55:39

crashdoll we do both work fulltime and, where possible, my mother will get to the hospital without needing a lift. But sometimes she's just not able to or the hospital stipulate that a particular test will require that she be driven home afterwards. There are lots and lots of situations, particularly as parents get older. where it is really helpful to have a few drivers around to help out.

Tuppence2 Thu 27-Dec-12 15:56:10

I don't drive and no one has to go out of their way to collect me or drop me off. I live on a regular bus route, and if, for whatever reason, I cannot get a bus to somewhere I need to be, I will get a taxi. I NEVER rely on people to give me lifts, and even when people offer (like a colleague who lives about 5 mins away from me and has offered me lifts home in the bad weather) I will usually say no, and still get the 2 buses home that I get every day! OR, if she does give me a lift, I will get her to drop me off on her way home, and make my own way from there, home.

It really winds me up when drivers tar all non-drivers with the same brush. We are not all entitled, demanding, self centred people who expect everyone else to run around after us! I don't care if you drive so why do you care that I don't?!
It is also not my problem that you choose to drive on a night out and therefore cannot drink... You have the choice to drive or not, either way I will choose to drink or not to drink and still get a taxi home, you driving does not have a bearing on my ride home, because I will still get a taxi. It is your choice, therefore your problem. If you don't want to be "designated driver" don't bloody drive on a night out! If you do choose to drive, and offer lifts, don't play the martyr all night, it is petty and pathetic!

ZenNudist Thu 27-Dec-12 15:56:30

Yanbu, my dsis and BIL can't drive as a result they almost never come and visit us, they are too tight to learn/run a car plus they are too tight to have any place in which we stay if we visit. At Christmas we dragged our dc over to where they live and had to go out for food as we couldn't stay in their house ( I digress). Anyway it's annoying as we not only have to run them about if we are visiting them but also when they visit us. She works for the nhs and has said before its better that they pay for her to get about by taxi as if she drive she would have to pay for her own transport! Cheeky.

MrsAmaretto Thu 27-Dec-12 15:56:32

Good post rosesformeplease there is an assumption that non drivers live in areas with excellent public transport links.

Op YAB a bit U , not all non drivers are a nuisance, but there are those (in my experience) that assume they will get lifts, etc. from driving friends, neighbours and relatives. I suggest you stop giving your brother a lift if it annoys you. I happily pass my colleague every morning as he walks a couple of miles on a single track road to our nearest bus stop. He chooses not to drive, whilst I choose the warmth, convienance and expense of running a car smile

LineRunner Thu 27-Dec-12 15:56:36

Salmo hospital transport does exist around the country. Some people do have better experiences than others. I wish those experiencing a poor service would complain, so that's its kept up to standard. (Our local newspaper did a good campaign, and got improvements.)

DontmindifIdo Thu 27-Dec-12 15:56:41

Whistlestop - you are either goingto have to start arranging meet ups (and yes, once DCS get over a certain age, a cafe isn't always good for more than a short meet up, you are goingto have to find places you can get to/from easily that you can suggest) or accept you aren't going to be able to make a lot of the meet ups with this group.

HollaAtMeSanta Thu 27-Dec-12 15:56:49

YANBU. Non drivers are deeply annoying. Even if you don't want or need to drive in everyday life, you should be able to do so if required. It's a life skill!

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 15:57:03

Ah flow - now that's the thing. My MIL is old and frail but she rather enjoys the "day out*.

She isn't terminally ill though and that sounds miserable for what your dad had to go through.

cinnamonnut Thu 27-Dec-12 15:57:25

Life skill <snigger> please do fuck off, I really don't have to drive if I don't want to.

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 15:58:04

I agree Worra some people over rely on cars and won't even walk to the local shops.. But driving can also be very very handy sometimes. Even if you don't actually own a car it can be handy to offer to share some of the driving from time to time - I just think it's almost a life skill nowadays and most of my friends, as soon as their children turn seventeen, insist on teaching them or getting them lessons.

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 15:58:54

You sound awfully defensive cinnamonnut. Apologies if I've touched a nerve.

SugarplumMary Thu 27-Dec-12 15:59:06

I've lived here nearly 18yrs and there are neighbours who I have never seen walking...not even to the local shop which is a 4 minute walk.

Same here I wouldn’t mind but we get constant comments from local people about how far the DC walk always with a hint of disapproval. They do walk a long way - sometime they chose to at minute they like long country walks - but often they are just walking round the corner a few streets at most.

LineRunner Thu 27-Dec-12 15:59:34

Why would we want more 17 years olds on the roads?

insancerre Thu 27-Dec-12 15:59:37

life skill? does that mean I have to be able to do it in order to live my life? I must be dead then.
I can't bloody swim either, you might as well shoot me now.

Tuppence2 Thu 27-Dec-12 15:59:39

whistlestopcafe could you not help your dad by ordering a big shop online and have it delivered, so he just needs to buy things like milk, etc from a corner shop?
You don't need a car for that

cinnamonnut Thu 27-Dec-12 15:59:41

No, atthewelles, I was talking to HollaAtMeSanta

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 15:59:46

Driving is not a fecking life skill.

It's just a skill. Or not, depending on how crap you are at it.

Life skill implies needing it to survive.

Which is patently not true for driving.

I don't drive. And I have survived to be nearly 50yo!

I did try a few lessons in my 20s, and found it reaaally boring tbh.

Living in London,I suppose, public transport links are good. And a car costs so much to run.

And...what are mini cabs for? For me..that's what wink

apostrophethesnowman Thu 27-Dec-12 16:00:05

Oh don't be so ridiculous. Not everyone needs to, or wants to, drive.

If I had a car it would be parked at my front door for 99 percent of the time as I would rarely use it. I commute by train daily. If I go into the city at weekends I use the train because it's quicker and if I drove there parking would be an issue.

I do my grocery shopping online, so have it delivered.

On the odd occasion that I need to go somewhere by car I phone a taxi. This still works out much cheaper than paying for a car I don't need, along with road tax, car insurance and petrol. It makes no economic sense for me to own a car.

I'm perfectly happy with my situation.

I suggest if your sibling was abusing your car-driving skills then you ought to take that up with her and not tar everyone with the same brush.

crashdoll Thu 27-Dec-12 16:00:11

I knew we'd get to 'life skill' at some point. I can drive. I don't drive as I find it physically uncomfortable due to my disability. My family constantly nag me about it. I wish they'd fuck off to be honest.

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 16:01:10

I can't swim either grin I've managed to get to 53 without the driving and swimming life skills.

BitofSparklingPerry Thu 27-Dec-12 16:01:23

The only time it is awkward not being able to drive is when dealing with drivers who think that meeting up in random obscure places is a good idea, which to me is more selfish than me choosing a cheaper and more conveinient method of transport that gets me to everywhere I choose to go to.

Meet in a major town and get a taxi home. i don't know why you would take your car unless you were disabled or going to the arse end of nowhere anyway.

WorraLorraTurkey Thu 27-Dec-12 16:02:07

YANBU. Non drivers are deeply annoying. Even if you don't want or need to drive in everyday life, you should be able to do so if required. It's a life skill!

Righto, I'm a non driver by choice who learned the 'life skill'.

I haven't been behind the wheel of a car for 11 years.

I'm able to 'do so if required'...but would you be happy to sit in the passenger seat if I did?

No, thought not....

Or should we all take yearly refresher lessons on the off chance we might be 'required' to drive someone somewhere who for some strange reason can't get a taxi...but happen to have a car available that's insured for me to drive?

RubyGates Thu 27-Dec-12 16:02:10

I don't drive anymore. The car has sat in the garage for 6 years and there, I suspect, it will stay.
I live in London. I use buses for work, a bicycle and trailer with a childseat for non-work.
I don't have a social life because I can't afford baby sitters.
I'm an only child and my parents divorced and moved away to different southern counties both over a hundred miles from me. They both drive. They either use their own cars or patient transport to get to appointments.
Do you expect me to move closer to one or other of them to ferry them around? Which one should I choose?
I hire a car if we go ona a long distance holiday, or use coaches and trains.

How in God's name do I inconvenience anybody? YABU
OH doesn't drive either. You should be very, very glad about it. wink

cinnamonnut Thu 27-Dec-12 16:02:29

Oh dear usual - we are such incompetent bastards, not like we've survived perfectly fine so far is it grin

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 16:02:34

And seriously? "You should be able to do so if required".

.... That's just about the biggest piece of bs I've ever read on here!,,

Hahahaha!

insancerre Thu 27-Dec-12 16:03:37

usualsuspect I was too busy learning to breathe and to eat to learn to swim and drive

<<sniggers but can't help it>>

whistlestopcafe Thu 27-Dec-12 16:03:59

DontmindifIdo - I do suggest local venues and I'm not bothered about not making all the meet-ups. What bothers me is that they will organise events to out of the way places and then be annoyed that I can't come. The museum next week would take more than 2 hours each way and a total of 4 buses I could almost walk there in that time!

cinnamonnut Thu 27-Dec-12 16:04:13

grin

Atthewelles Thu 27-Dec-12 16:04:13

I think some people should look up the definition of 'life skill'. It is not about being able to save your life.

Anyway, have to drive to visit someone now.

Tuppence2 Thu 27-Dec-12 16:04:14

I agree with apostrophethesnowman

a life skill?? Seriously?
I best go tell my 54 year old mother and my gran who made it to 84 without driving!
I have no interest or inclination to ever drive, but I'm pretty sure I'm still living my life, without this amazing life skill!

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 16:04:21

Usual* and cinnamount should technically be dead. grin

Crinkle77 Thu 27-Dec-12 16:04:57

I don't drive but would never expect someone to stay sober while I sit there knocking the ale back. I would suggest a taxi. I tried learning but hated every minute of it. Just did not feel confident and was a nervous wreck behind the wheel. Now it's gone so expensive and to run a car and all I hear people do who have cars is moan about how much they cost. I have had two lots of friends recently who have had to have their cars repaired recently and it has cost hundreds of pounds which has put me off even more

Roseformeplease Thu 27-Dec-12 16:05:24

Lueji - taxi can be booked in advance but she often says no, or doesn't pick up the phone, or has a holiday away. All very reasonable but these mean that we do not have a constant service. Many rural areas have no one at all so we are relatively lucky.

Mu1berryBush Thu 27-Dec-12 16:05:36

i can drive but i can't pass the test. i think it's too hard (the test) they need to make it easier. it's ridiculous. i'm giving up. i've spent 20 years on and off trying to pass that fucking test.

whistlestopcafe Thu 27-Dec-12 16:06:39

I did suggest that Tuppence but he wasn't having any of it, he doesn't want to be a nuisance.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 16:07:04

Actually, I'm in favour of it being even harder to pass.

And I learned when it was frighteningly easy.

cinnamonnut Thu 27-Dec-12 16:07:50

Maybe the ability to use transport is a life skill, but that can include using your own legs or using public transport. It doesn't have to mean driving.

Tuppence2 Thu 27-Dec-12 16:10:11

The only time it is awkward not being able to drive is when dealing with drivers who think that meeting up in random obscure places is a good idea, which to me is more selfish than me choosing a cheaper and more convenient method of transport that gets me to everywhere I choose to go to.

You say this is selfish of the drivers, but I think it's pretty entitled of you! So friends can only go to places that you find easy to get to? If friends of mine make arrangements to go somewhere "obscure" then I treat the same as going to town. If it is somewhere I want to go, I make the effort to go there, if not, I don't. It is your choice to get public transport like it is their choice to drive, suck it up!

LuluMai Thu 27-Dec-12 16:10:17

Holla,we should be able to do if required? How does one make oneself capable of doing something one cannot do? Magic. The op is ignoring the point about some adults who simply are incapable of driving, it is not always a choice!

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 27-Dec-12 16:10:54

I do think that driving is a fairly essential life skill tbh - my siblings and I all learned to drive whilst still living at home, with driving lessons given to us for our 17th birthdays. None of us could afford to run a car at 17, but we had the licence all ready for when we did.

I'll do the same for my dc.

I once dated a man in his 20's who couldn't drive or swim. I was always shock about it.

Agree cinnamonnut...to know the best bus routes and back streets for walking is indeed skillful wink...it takes more than shoving a stick with a knob on up and down.

cinnamonnut Thu 27-Dec-12 16:14:49

Shoving a stick with a knob on up and down grin

SugarplumMary Thu 27-Dec-12 16:15:33

MrsAmaretto
Good post rosesformeplease there is an assumption that non drivers live in areas with excellent public transport links.

Not really - we knew there were places we couldn't live because we didn't drive.

The place we settled even though its edge of a rural town has good transport links – and it’s walkable to centre which has good train links. It was only a possibility because of its transport links.

It’s different if you’ve grown up somewhere rural with poor links as it’s not your choice. Once you’re an adult you usually have options – either drive or live somewhere where it’s less of an issue.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones
None of us could afford to run a car at 17, but we had the licence all ready for when we did.

That is great - my parents did that for me. I'm getting to late 30s and still haven't found a use for it and would need many lessons to be safe to drive again.

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 16:15:33

I think it's a life skill to know how to get from A to B, doesn't matter how you get there.

blush

Lueji Thu 27-Dec-12 16:15:40

The only time it is awkward not being able to drive is when dealing with drivers who think that meeting up in random obscure places is a good idea

It can also be a PITA arranging a meeting somewhere central where drivers would have to pay for parking, or parking was limited to 2 hours, or they would have to spend hours in public transport instead if they lived further away, I suppose.
There's no pleasing everyone. smile

SugarplumMary Thu 27-Dec-12 16:16:51

I literally passed my test and have never been behind a car wheel again - they didn't like me driving their car and I left home for poor student life shortly after.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 16:17:33

You wre shocked that someone couldn't drive or swim Sabrina?

Really?

insancerre Thu 27-Dec-12 16:18:01

I think that being able to get to where you want to go without a car is more of a life skill.

foreverondiet Thu 27-Dec-12 16:18:07

Their choice not to drive but PITA to expect or demand lifts.

And yes if if my DH couldn't drive it would be a PITA as I would have to drive around the DC etc - however YABU to moan about non drivers in general - eg my SIL doesn't drive, and I think the only person it impacts is her DH.

So on balance YABU - just don't offer lifts.

Nodecentnickname Thu 27-Dec-12 16:18:09

Non car drivers are not the nuisance. Your brother is.
In fact, you and every other car driver are far more of a massive nuisance and inconvenience to non-drivers and their children due to the vast number of pollutants you pump into the atmosphere, just because you are all far too lazy and disorganized to share public transport or walk.

WildWorld2004 Thu 27-Dec-12 16:18:33

If someone paid for me to pass my test and paid for a car i would quite happily drive.

However i do know many people who have become so lazy once they learnt to drive. Some people seem to forget that you can walk to the shop 2 minutes down the road. You dont need to drive there.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 16:19:04

Hey usual - Sabrina would be shocked by you!

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 16:20:31

Haha. maybe she doesn't care if women can't drive or swim?

ComposHat Thu 27-Dec-12 16:20:43

Oh Christ not this hot potato again.

I can drive but having lived in largish cities for years haven't had a car until a few months ago when I acquired one for peanuts from a friend of my sister. (it is a nice to have not an essential)

I got around fine on public transport and still use my bike for commuting as taking a car into the city centre is (quite rightly) a no no.

If I am going somewhere and someone needs a lift that way I am more than happy to offer, I wouldn't be so churlish as to demand money for that. If I don't want to give someone a lift I won't offer. I wouldn't be so two faced as to volunteer and then play the martyr when my offer was taken up.

What I do find slightly irritating is my non-driving fiancée's lack of understanding and empathy. Stuff like fiddling with the radio whilst I'm trying to pull off at a busy junction, shouting 'Oh my god' at the top of her voice at something trivial, leading to the odd impromptu emergency stop.

The time that took the biscuit was when I'd driven from Liverpool to Brighton in atrocious weather whilst she napped in the passanger seat. When we arrived I said I was exhausted. I mentioned this to her and her response was 'Don't be silly you've been sitting down and listening to the radio (Ie driving) for most of the day. I bit my tongue but Sshe came very close to being my ex-fiancée at that moment.

Housemum Thu 27-Dec-12 16:21:49

Reading some of the responses on here I now understand why my mother refuses lifts from anyone - she probably thinks they will whinge about her behind her back! She once had a couple of lessons that she hated 40+ years ago but now has absolutely no confidence and would never want to drive even though she could afford to run a car (and my FIL is a trained instructor and has always offered to teach her if she wanted). She won't go to any evening events as the buses stop at 9pm, and she'd hate to feel obliged to anyone for a lift. I offer to pick her up at whatever time of night (she only lives half a mile away), but she won't even accept that.

I have adult friends who don't drive, I have never even asked if they have chosen to or have medical reasons - it's not my business - if they leave in my direction I am always happy to give them lifts.

People are v judgeypants about "having" to learn to drive - since DD1 turned 17 people kept asking when she was going to learn, as she has epilepsy she had to be seizure free for a full year to get her provisional. If you have never seen her have a fit you wouldn't know she couldn't drive for medical reasons.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 27-Dec-12 16:22:01

SugarPlumMary -I got my first car 4 years after passing my test - and I was very nervous, but it's amazing how it comes back to you. Bit like riding a bike.

I'm also so old I never had to do the written test.

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Thu 27-Dec-12 16:23:17

Another happy non-driver here. I have always lived in greater London, and though my parents both drove, I have never owned a car. Technically I can drive. I have a valid driving licence. I haven't been behind the wheel for 25 years, do you really want me out on the roads? I stopped doing it because I was terrible at it; have a problem telling my left from my right and not great at judging distances, as well as being scared to death of every other vehicle.

So I decided a couple of decades ago that I didn't want or need a car and therefore would always live places with decent public transport. I don't feel deprived and I'm certainly not a burden on others: I have quite a lot of car-free friends and on the few occasions we go to a Morris weekend that's in the sticks, the drivers in the team are happy to transport a few non-drivers for a share of petrol money on a long-ish journey - or, quite often, it's feasible for the non-drivers to get a train and a cab to the location anyway.

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 16:23:23

I'm not too clever on a bike either. I have no life skills sad

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 27-Dec-12 16:25:09

Oh dear - I've just realised this is a bunfighty thread. I didn't notice it stretched to 12 pages blush

<backs away>

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 16:28:00

Possibly usual

After all, some driving- swimmer man would come along and save the day if you fell into a river due to walking everywhere.

LineRunner Thu 27-Dec-12 16:28:49

Are you any good with a hoop and stick, usual?

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 16:29:02

How have you made it this far usual ... <snigger>

SugarplumMary Thu 27-Dec-12 16:29:07

That good to hear SabrinaMulhollandJjones.

I think the sheer number of years between my non written test - just practical test for me too - and time I finally do need to drive may be more of an issue but you never know it might prove easier than I think smile.

I can see a point in our lives when driving will be necessary and not a luxury. It depends as we hope to be moving on another 12 months should be city location but transport may still be an issue especially as the DC get older.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 16:29:44

Or spinning top maybe Line?

MyLittleAprilSunshine Thu 27-Dec-12 16:30:26

I can't drive due to well illness I feel very awkward saying as I don't feel ill or anything, but I can't see well enough to drive (infact the sight is damn awful).

However my Mum can't drive but I honestly think it's a good thing. She'd be waaay too nervous on the roads and I think being able to admit you wouldn't make a good driver and making the sensible decison not to drive is a great thing!

whistlestopcafe Thu 27-Dec-12 16:32:29

After saying that I'm laid back and not bothered about missing things I'm now starting to think that I'm not so laid back as this thread has reminded me of a couple of incidents of car driver selfishness.

A few years ago when I only had one child we had agreed to take the children ice-skating. Ds and I caught two buses and had a journey of 90 minutes to travel 5 miles to get there (in a car it takes less than 10 minutes). When we arrived my friends said the ice rink was full of "chavs" and they wanted to go home to a local venue. They didn't get why I was annoyed and wanted to stay.

Incident two - When ds2 was 6 weeks old we were all going to catch the train to Brighton, it was a 2 hour journey although there was only one change and it was a summer special so wasn't hideously expensive. They then decided that they would not catch the train and would drive instead because the train was going to be a faff and take too long. So now I was expected to take the train and be a Billy no mates and cope with a newborn baby and a small child on my own. When everyone was going the train journey seemed like a good idea but on my own it wasn't very appealing. I decided not to go but of course it is another example of me not bothering to make an effort.

superstarheartbreaker Thu 27-Dec-12 16:32:32

I recently passed my test at the grand old age of 24 and wrote a car off in a week grin. It was only a minor accident and noone was hurt but the airbag popped out and as an airbag is about £1, 500 then it wasn't worth repairing it. Have a lovely VW polo. When anyone says to me; oh you must lov ethe freedom I say I don't feel any freer and certainly more scared and skint. I DO think that the prevailing car culture is far too unchallenged. We need to think of our impact on teh plant and I feel that car culture is NO 1 offender when it comes to environmental destruction and/or oil wars etc. What is wrong with public transport and why on earth are non-drivers made to feel bad? I am glad to have passed but I am hoping to move to London and one reason for doing so is better transport. Shall take car with but only use to travel out of London on day trips etc.

superstarheartbreaker Thu 27-Dec-12 16:32:51

grand old age of 34 I meant!

Floggingmolly Thu 27-Dec-12 16:33:13

Some people who don't drive use public transport, you know. If you're being plagued by someone looking for constant ferrying about, it says more about her personality than the incidental fact that she doesn't drive.
What a generalisation hmm

elah11 Thu 27-Dec-12 16:33:30

Its funny how many non drivers are so defensive about the subject, I think deep down they know the op has a valid point but don't want to admit it. I was a very nervous learner and I still don't like driving but I realise it's a necessary skill so i do it. I used to have to drag the kids out and walk miles when I couldn't drive which is no problem when the weather is dry but it's selfish and unfair when it's lashing rain and miserable. I know people always say the kids don't mind but they have no choice! I am sure the poor sods would much rather sit in a warm dry car then trudge along in the rain and wind, anyone who protests otherwise is deluded.

feelingdizzy Thu 27-Dec-12 16:35:20

I didn't learn to drive till I was 30 (took 5 tests)managed just fine and was a lot slimmer! had 2 kids by then and had to pass my test to get a job I really wanted/needed to get.

I have to drive now for work and live in a very rural isolated spot,but I still don't like it,its a chore to me.I would happily never drive again if I had alternative transport.To be honest don't understand people who do drive in cities.I know many people who live and work in cities who drive into work car remains there 8 hours and they return home again and they could do this on public transport.Why would you drive if you didn't have to?

Many people seen obsessed with their cars and the very act of driving it fascinates me.Many people fantasise sabout moving to the country when they retire I am going the other way and live in a city and never drive again.Brillant.

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 16:36:35

My poor children walked to school in the wind and rain, poor sods sad

DameMargotFountain Thu 27-Dec-12 16:36:57

elah

i think the defensiveness comes from the fact the OP has called us a nuisance and PITA

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 16:38:58

Do you make your poor children walk in the rain and wind, Dame?

WorraLorraTurkey Thu 27-Dec-12 16:40:28

elah dont' be so ridiculous.

Deep down a lot of us think the OP is being entirely unreasonable and tarring a massive group of people with the same brush.

What is selfish and unfair imo is to raise children who think rain and bad weather, is a reason to stay home...or a reason to be driven everywhere.

I would consider myself deluded and selfish, if I packed them into a car every time the UK whether didn't suit them.

And while we're making wild assumptions, if you don't like driving I'm willing to bet you're not very good at it either. Not everyone is naturally good at driving and those are the selfish lot who should stay off the roads and stop convincing their children they'll dissolve in the rain.

crashdoll Thu 27-Dec-12 16:40:32

I'm defensive because I've had people whittering in my ear about driving for years despite the fact that I say I find driving painful due to my condition. However, the irritants and their petrol guzzling machines don't seem to realise that I don't want their opinions!

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 16:41:13

I drive.

It is NOT a "necessary" skill if you can get public transport or manage without it.

I drive to work because its an inaccessible by bus.

And plenty of children walked to school for miles and didn't dissolve in the rain when I was at school. And still do.

I totally get why plenty of people don't drive even if they have no medical issues or money issues.

I would prefer not to have to drive to work when I am fighting with traffic and inconsiderate drivers.

LineRunner Thu 27-Dec-12 16:41:33

Oh goody, are we all going to get what we prefer all the time now?

insancerre Thu 27-Dec-12 16:42:05

i admit that some aspects of my life might be easier if i did drive- I would save time and it would be convenient if i had my own car. But then again, some aspects of my life would be easier if I was a foot taller or had bigger norks or if I was married to johnny Depp. I don't need those things, just the same as I don't need to drive.

DameMargotFountain Thu 27-Dec-12 16:42:28

i do

i'm a right cunt PITA though

but someone kindly invented coats and shoes, so we're not all that badly off

mostly i stand in the street, crying, until someone i know drives past and is guilted into giving me a lift, it's only right you know <entitles self out of thread. again>

LineRunner Thu 27-Dec-12 16:42:37

(Not you Salmo)

(Poor timing) grin

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 16:43:07

My childrens secondary school was a good half hour walk away, TBH if I could drive I wouldn't have driven them every day.

LineRunner Thu 27-Dec-12 16:43:34

(kids preferring cars to walking in bad weather)

LineRunner Thu 27-Dec-12 16:44:41

I think the cagoule was a fine invention.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 16:45:32

grin Line - children mustn't ever get wet.

mumofthemonsters808 Thu 27-Dec-12 16:45:38

I'm a non driver and have never asked anyone to drive me anywhere, I walk,use public transport and in an emergency take a taxi.I actually enjoy walking,driving is not for everyone.

Northernlebkuchen Thu 27-Dec-12 16:46:00

I passed my test a year and a half ago aged 34. I love driving now and wouldn't be without it but it's not an essential. YABU to be so grumpy.

SugarplumMary Thu 27-Dec-12 16:46:06

I'm wondering if I have defective 'poor little ones' - as they often insist on dragging poor me out to parks or country walks in such weather.

insancerre Thu 27-Dec-12 16:47:06

The cagoule was a mighty fine invention and our children won't wear them today because of all the car-drivers driving their children around. Kids today don't realise that when it rains you get wet because they have spent their entire lives as passengers, watching the weather from inside a car.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 16:48:01

Oh I had a hideous lovely turquoise cagoule when I were nobbut a little bairny.

insancerre Thu 27-Dec-12 16:48:33

won't someone think of the chiiiiildren?
<<wails>>

ComposHat Thu 27-Dec-12 16:48:47

Yes Molly I suspect it does. I think the worst lift cadgers are women of a certain age who have never learned to drive but are used to the convenience of a spouse running them about. When they are divorced/widowed they expect all and sundry to fill the void. My MIL is very much of this ilk, I feign ignorance to her broad hints and watch her silently fume.

I get annoyed by the self centredness of her behaviour, she also expects people to come and perform DIY, sort out her computer at the drop of a hat, rather than the fact she can't drive per se.

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 16:49:28

But the water used to gather in dips and folds then pour out over my trousers in finest comedy tradition.

LineRunner Thu 27-Dec-12 16:49:58

I had a bright red cagoule and I wore it till I was 18, when I was allowed my own umbrella.

SneezySnatcher Thu 27-Dec-12 16:50:06

I don't mind people not driving.

I do mind people like my friend (lovely in all other respects) who asks me if I fancy shopping in a nearby town/cinema etc and then if I say 'yes' says 'Great! Will you drive then?' angry

Sometimes if she's made plans with another of our friends and invites me tooI wonder if she actually wants me to come or if it's easier than getting the train/bus!

Salmotrutta Thu 27-Dec-12 16:50:27

I coveted my friends umbrella.

acsec Thu 27-Dec-12 16:52:43

I don't drive and I never expect anyone to go out of their way for me. I walk or catch public transport. I will learn to drive, but not until I can afford to run a car.

everlong Thu 27-Dec-12 16:54:07

Some people find driving a no no. They are too scared ( I used to be ) to drive, they can't afford a car or to run one. It's not always simple.

I don't mind visiting friends/picking or dropping those who can't drive. It's not the end of my world.

However I would rather chop my little toe off than not be able to drive.

DizzyHoneyBee Thu 27-Dec-12 16:55:27

it's ok to choose not to drive but then to ask for weekly lifts to places that your neighbour is not going to anyway is what I find annoying.

digerd Thu 27-Dec-12 16:57:26

We all walked to school and back in the 50s and 60s, our children did too.
I had 55 driving lessons years later and after each I was exhausted as so tense. Wouldn't overtake anything, and remember once stopping in a 4 lane at traffic lights, saw on the otherside there were only 3 lanes with a bus in one, and was terrified. Instructor took over the controls while I shut my eyes expecting to be squashed in the middle. Decided it was a danger to my and everyone elses health and gave it up.
My 83 year-old neighbour drives like sterling moss, but has excellent eyesight and reactions . Has never offered a lift to me in 15 years, and I have never asked.

MotherOfTheBritishEmpire Thu 27-Dec-12 16:59:45

always be the designated driver who can't have a drink while the non driver happily slurps a third glass of wine etc etc etc

If you want to drink, take public transport or share a cab like the non-drivers do.

Why should arrangements be made to siot drivers? make arrangements close to public transport!

Either offer a lift with good grace or don't. Your general attitude is V passive aggressive.

(I am a driver)

nailak Thu 27-Dec-12 17:00:04

" I used to have to drag the kids out and walk miles when I couldn't drive which is no problem when the weather is dry but it's selfish and unfair when it's lashing rain and miserable"

why did you have to this? are there no mini cans in your area?

I dont drive, so if my friends are meeting up somewhere that takes ages on bus but is 10 mins by car, or somewhere obscure then i just get a cab. it is still cheaper then running a car. same as if i go out with friends or to families houses i take a cab there and back, if they offer a lift i accept, but i dont expect it.

i dont drive coz i never learnt, once my youngest is in nursery then i will have a few free hours to learn.

however my mum never drove, we did every thing by public transport.

I don't drive, sometimes I want to, others I don't. I love public transport. Me and dh get everywhere we need to go using PT. We never ask for lifts, if people offer we take it, but we never guilt or impose. It's our choice not to drive, even with ds we find PT absolutely fine

clitterclatter Thu 27-Dec-12 17:08:29

I'm surprised at the number of people on here who are convinced their decision not to drive doesn't impact on other people. Of course it does. As for saying 'take a cab if you want a drink', that's fine if you're going out with a group of friends but I took it that the OP had to ferry family (including elderly relatives) around over Christmas meaning they always had to be the one to not have wine while the sibling drank away.

Look, you can always take individual examples and nit pick at them, but if you look at the broader picture it is inconvenient for someone if a family member who lives nearby doesn't drive and this always has to be factored in when planning a family outing or arranging transport for an elderly parent. I think that's what the OP is saying and I agree with her.

LineRunner Thu 27-Dec-12 17:09:07

<serious note coming up> Actually I've just taken issue with DS's school for not accommodating pupils who do have to walk to school in bad weather. They are expected to carry round soaking wet raincoats all day with nowhere to hang them.

There's nowhere even to sit and change boots for shoes. And as they are not allowed to enter the school wearing boots, they're effectively not allowed to wear boots to walk to school in bad weather.

Yet it celebrates 'healthy schools' and 'walk to school week' and has a School Travel Plan which encourages walking.

But let's face it, the school assumes they all sit in cars to get from A to B.

MotherOfTheBritishEmpire Thu 27-Dec-12 17:11:34

Oh, the martyrdom of sipping 7Up - suggest that on one day you offer a lift to the elderly relative and the next day you will drink and the non-driving relative fund a cab!

It is possible to be calmly upfront, rather than whinging about people behind their backs hmm. Such a festive spirit hmm

SugarplumMary Thu 27-Dec-12 17:16:27

LineRunner I think that a very good point. My DC school a primary isn't to bad as they can change shoes and hang coats up.

I used to have to get the bus to Secondary school - no shelter we got soaked very freqeuntly then as there were no lockers has to carry wet stuff round all day - coats and umbrellas used to drip onto class room carpets. It was grim.

nailak Thu 27-Dec-12 17:17:45

linerunner what happens if you just send them in boots? and cant they just quietly find somewhere hidden to leave coats? medical room changing room, music rooms etc?

Tuppence2 Thu 27-Dec-12 17:19:14

ClitterClatter then drivers should say, "I'm sorry, I will not be taking the car to that event, I'm sure we could share a taxi" or whatever.
There is nothing worse as a non-driver than to have a PA driver bang on all night about having to drink soft drinks while everyone else gets drunk. You have a choice, drink or drive. Plain and simple. Don't offer people lifts and then be pissy with them all night!
If I (a non-driver) cannot afford my taxi fare home after a night out, I then will not go out, or I will stay at a friend's house, where 3 friend's live, so we can all share the taxi fare and then I will get a bus home from there the next day. It's pretty straight forward to be honest.

clitterclatter Thu 27-Dec-12 17:20:32

Eh, isn't 'whingng about people behind their back' what AIBU is all about Mother. Wny log on if you're just going to 'whinge' and make moany faces about it? confused

crashdoll Thu 27-Dec-12 17:22:11

I'm surprised at the number of people on here who are convinced their decision not to drive doesn't impact on other people. Of course it does. As for saying 'take a cab if you want a drink', that's fine if you're going out with a group of friends but I took it that the OP had to ferry family (including elderly relatives) around over Christmas meaning they always had to be the one to not have wine while the sibling drank away.

Is drinking really such a big deal for some people? A car is a huge expense, why should a person be forced to drive to ferry around elderly relatives?

clitterclatter Thu 27-Dec-12 17:22:17

But Tuppence some people are too polite and considerate to say that. And I don't think they usually 'bang on all night' about it - most of them act as if they don't mind (and post annonymously on forums to vent).

Tuppence2 Thu 27-Dec-12 17:24:26

Look, you can always take individual examples and nit pick at them, but if you look at the broader picture it is inconvenient for someone if a family member who lives nearby doesn't drive and this always has to be factored in when planning a family outing or arranging transport for an elderly parent. I think that's what the OP is saying and I agree with her.

This annoys me, as all of my friends and family know I do not drive, and will never ask for a lift anywhere, even if they drive past my house to get wherever we are going. I will leave early to get the bus, and generally get there early as buses rarely get me there for the exact time I'm meeting my friends or whoever.
I will never ask people to change plans to suit me travelling there by public transport, I factor travel costs into plans, the same way a driver factors in petrol money, it's not difficult. The only people who seem to be bothered that I do not drive, are drivers, apparently! hmm

iwillsleepagainsomeday Thu 27-Dec-12 17:24:33

I don't get why "being able to drive" = "owning/running a car"?

I can drive since I was 18 but never owned a "personal car". When I lived at home I used my parents' one and with DH when we lived overseas I used our family car. I never used it for work/commuting as I used always public transport. We do not have a car at the moment as we currently live in London. This summer we rented a car for a week to have our "rural" holidays.

I think however driving is an essential skill in this time and society. Just as using a computer /internet is nowadays. Sure, you can live without it, but that means your are limiting yourself.

fatlazymummy Thu 27-Dec-12 17:26:20

clitterclatter no it doesn't impact on other people. You probably feel it does, because you probably rely on your car therefore you feel that a car is essential. It isn't.
There is nothing I need a car for. I never have lifts. I walk, use public transport or take a cab, and so do my children. I don't have any elderly relatives.

SantasWearingHisTrampyPants Thu 27-Dec-12 17:29:19

What fatlazy said. Neither dh or I drive. We live in a semi-rural location and manage perfectly well. We don't expect lifts, we don't need a car, dh works ft and we are never late.

Yabu

WildWorld2004 Thu 27-Dec-12 17:29:54

Just think if every adult who is able to drive did drive would that be more of an inconvience because there would be more cars on the road and less places to park.

Oh god just think how worse the parking threads on here would be.

digerd Thu 27-Dec-12 17:30:46

I go by taxi now that I'm retired. Go by bus in the summer dry weather . Have food delivered to the door.
But in my area the taxi firms do school runs during term time, and none is available until after 9am, which is usually fine for me.
My daughter drives me to relatives Xmas lunch as she is invited too. But am still terrified on the motorways especially in the dark when it's raining as it was coming back last evening.

Tuppence2 Thu 27-Dec-12 17:30:48

ClitterClatter I know drivers who have made little comments and digs on a night out about how "it must be nice to have drinks and not worry about driving" or the fact that they have offered people lifts home, but then complain that it's no fun not drinking around drunk people... Which is fine, I get that. I don't always drink when I go out, but I still get a taxi home at the end of the night, drunk or not.

I do not see the point in offering people lifts and then complaining about it. I never ask for lifts, but on the rare occasion I accept the offer of a lift, I do not expect to have it then complained about. Don't offer non-drivers lifts if you don't actually want to give them a lift... That's about as complicated as it gets surely. If you feel obliged or guilty or whatever, that is your issue, not the person accepting your offer!

Not going to dredge through 4 pages but YABU. Not all non drivers are selfish and entitled. I don't drive and I make my own travel arrangements either by walking/bus/ taxi. As I don't have the costs of running a car I don't mind paying for taxis now and then.

I do know non drivers like you describe though - the thing is they can only act like this if they are allowed to! Stop letting people take the piss.

I don't think your issue is a driving thing such much as a selfish people thing.

BoneyBackJefferson Thu 27-Dec-12 17:33:16

CreamOfTomatoSoup
"They also use driving as an excuse for not having a drink when actually they're really uptight and could easily have gotten the train, left the car at home and had a bit of fun.*

That is as ignorant as the op's generalisation.

Tuppence2 Thu 27-Dec-12 17:33:23

What both fatlazymummy and SantasWearingHisTrampyPants

The people who are usually late when meeting them are people who can't find a parking space or left a bit later as they didn't realise the traffic would be bad. It is rarely people travelling by public transport IME

MysteriousHamster Thu 27-Dec-12 17:35:16

There is an arrogance here in people who found it easy to drive, or easy to afford to learn, assuming it is the same for others.

I had lessons when I was 17 but struggled both with the lessons and financially until I gave up while doing my A levels. I went to uni in London where I didn't need to drive. After uni, my husband couldn't drive either and when we finally had some money we decided to learn one at a time and he went first. I passed last year at 32 after six months of lessons.

I'm on the side of the non-drivers on this thread. People don't drive for all sorts of reasons. Rarely is it because they can't be bothered. Most people know it's a hassle to give lifts and appreciate getting them, it's only people who are selfish generally who don't care.

When I was on maternity leave I felt terrible asking for lifts and it was in part what prompted me to learn. But I don't feel others should have to do the same. I mostly learnt in case I ever need to get my son to hospital and so I will be able to do the long drives to my parents as they get older - but everyone's circumstances and transport links are different.

Tbh I'm not a particularly confident driver - my actual driving is fine and seems confident on the surface - but I don't enjoy it unless there's sunshine and quiet roads. I hate the fact some would push under-confident drivers on to the road because it's 'an essential life-skill' in their view. It's a skill, which can come in handy, but you can still do without if necessary.

Not sure what my point is exactly, but I've typed this out now so you're getting it!

jessjessjess Thu 27-Dec-12 17:39:40

I don't drive. Or expect lifts. I have absolutely no sympathy for people who drive and then moan about it.

ihearsounds Thu 27-Dec-12 17:39:59

I stopped driving about 17 years ago. This was after I was assaulted over a parking space, and had panic attacks after that getting into the driving seat.
None of my children have melted from getting wet. They have still managed to get to school nursery and college. I manage to get to work.
I am not a drain on other drivers, ever. I walk, take the bus and taxi.
Old people getting to hospital appointments, well they have always managed in the past to get there. Even in areas where buses run once an hour, still get to appointments. Remember my nan going, no-one in the family drove, but in hindsight suppose the self people should have learned lol.

LineRunner Thu 27-Dec-12 17:41:33

On the walking to school in bad weather issue - DS's school is is a biggish state secondary(c 1300 pupils) and they say they have no space for changing or storage. Coats should be 'hung on chairs' and school shoes should be black and 'robust enough to be waterproof'.

I think they are in cloud cuckoo Clarkson land.

DH doesn't drive. He just doesn't want to. He does have a provisional driving licence, but that's only because he wanted some ID.

If he wants to go somewhere he'll walk, or get the bus or train. No problem.

Mollydoggerson Thu 27-Dec-12 17:43:21

My MIL doesn't drive and it adds to her general unavailability. MIL will claim to be available to babysit etc, but the non-driving element makes her unavailable. It means step FIL would have to drive her here, possibly stay or else go away and then collect her or else dh would go and collect her and bring her back and then organise transport home. It just makes the simple act of babysitting quite complicated. Fine I know she doesn't have to do it, but she tentatively offers occassionally (maybe once a year), but it's hardly worth the hassle.

I suppose drivers tend to be more available to help out than non-drivers, but obviously the personalities of all involved have a huge impact on arrangements.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Thu 27-Dec-12 17:45:23

My primary aged dc have a cloak room where they can put their wellys and macs. Once they take them off they are probably dryer then a dc who was drove to school since everyone drives on rainy days and people have to park 2/3 streets away. In fact they have to park on my road then walk sometimes and they don't have wellys macs and umbrellas like my dc to keep them dry.

outtolunchagain Thu 27-Dec-12 18:09:08

Amazed at all these people talking about taxis etc . We live in a rural area and you can't get taxis at the weekend for love nor money , they need at least 24 hours notice , often a lot more

nailak Thu 27-Dec-12 18:16:15

well if you choose somewhere to live in which there is no public transport when you dont drive, it is a bit weird?

however it does look like a great business opportunity! get a pco license and advertise as a cab driver!

nailak Thu 27-Dec-12 18:19:37

"I suppose drivers tend to be more available to help out than non-drivers, but obviously the personalities of all involved have a huge impact on arrangements"

i am free to babysit at my house with my kids. I find it hard to arrange babysitters for my kids though as I have to go and drop them at others houses and isnt worth the effort imo

SantasWearingHisTrampyPants Thu 27-Dec-12 18:24:27

Outtolunch, that's a bummer. We live rurally there are taxi all over the nearest town and its only £6.70, cheaper than driving/parking. And I wouldn't live somewhere I couldn't get around without driving. Its no loss. After all, if you have 5 dc you wouldn't move to a 2 bed house, would you? It wouldn't be suitable. A house with no pt links wouldn't be suitable for us.

dementedma Thu 27-Dec-12 18:27:45

My dds don't drive because we can't afford lessons, insurance or another car.I wish we bloody could then wouldn't have to go out again late tonight to pick them up from the Park and Ride.

spoonsspoonsspoons Thu 27-Dec-12 18:28:48

YABU

Do you know how damaging these comments can be to those who cannot drive for medical reasons? I know you excepted them in your OP but it doesn't stop people with epilepsy feeling crap because they're not able to do things others take for granted. It doesn't stop people making comments like "real men can drive" because they don't know the medical history of your OH. It doesn't stop him feeling less guilty because I'm the one driving 7 hours to see his parents.

As a non-driver, I get really annoyed at colleagues who INSIST I have a lift home and no amount of me saying “no thanks, I’m fine” gets through to them.

How do I politely say that I do not want to....
- sit in your pine scented car
- listen to your taste of music,
- be the person that has to jump out and post the letters
- be covered with dog, cat, human hairs
- have my feet battered by empty cans & bottles
- wait whilst you just nip for petrol, the kids, the weekly shop
- listen to all your woes

I am tired, I want to go home, on the bus, where I can listen to my music or read my kindle in peace.

Thankyou.

EllenParsons Thu 27-Dec-12 18:33:00

YABU.

I don't have a driving licence. I live in London in quite a central area in zone 2 which has great public transport that I use to get around. There's no way I would drive where I live. It just would not make sense. I never need to get lifts from people as I can always easily get wherever I need by public transport or if not then I get a cab. The fact I don't drive does not put anyone else out and I hardly know anyone with a car. Before I lived in London I lived in another large European city where I had no need for a car either. That said, I have actually learned to drive but haven't taken my test yet. I do see the benefit of being able to drive for things like renting a car and going out to the country, but the fact I still haven't done my test really does not impact anyone else or make me a PITA confused

mummyonvalium Thu 27-Dec-12 18:36:41

People who don't drive don't bother me so long as they don't insult my driving whilst I am giving them a lift (one girl did and she has never been offered a lift again).

mummyonvalium Thu 27-Dec-12 18:38:51

Tess - this used to annoy me too when I didn't drive (only 4 years ago). No-one actually understood that I was actually capable of getting on a bus.

YABU.

I didn't learn to drive living in London, pre-kids, because I could cycle anywhere I needed to go. I did learn once we left London, so can drive according to my license (passed with two minors), but I don't enjoy it, don't feel confident at it, and have never driven on a motorway. You'd consider me technically minded in other ways, but I don't have the concentration to be a safe driver at anything over 30 mph for 20 minutes max.

Not everyone can be a good driver, those of us who recognise this are keeping the roads safer for everyone else. Plus I hate cars, would still much rather cycle, even with a trailer full of kids in tow!

Tuppence2 Thu 27-Dec-12 18:41:25

Why would you choose to live in a rural area without good public transport links/easily available taxi services if you can't drive?

fatlazymummy Thu 27-Dec-12 18:43:26

mummyonvalium or that it is possible to, gasp, walk more than a few yards without collapsing.

BRANdishingMistletoe Thu 27-Dec-12 18:45:26

H refuses to learn to drive and it is a total nuisance, I wouldn't extrapolate that to include the entire non-driving adult population though.

What is especially annoying is that H will not accept that him refusing to drive affects me in any way, he thinks it's totally fine. In fact he called me a bully for reminding him that he promised to learn. He is an arse, hopefully soon to be a single arse. (God, I can't wait for Christmas to be over.)

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Thu 27-Dec-12 18:47:54

I think that the selfish ones are people who live in a city with good public transport and insist on owning cars and driving everywhere (I will exempt those with mobility issues/several under-5s/a need to carry a lot of heavy items regularly). The car-obsessed city dwellers are the ones poisoning the air, clogging up the streets, making it unsafe for DC to play outside and it's actually mainly the fault of city-dwelling car owners who pave over their front gardens for parking spaces, that so many people are being flooded out at the moment.

ArthurPewty Thu 27-Dec-12 18:49:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.