To be bloody fuming with SonIL's family over selfish xmas arrangements(281 Posts)
This could be long, sorry.
Basically this year it's DD1's husband's family's turn to host Christmas, we alternate between me doing it and SonIL's parents doing it, their turn this year. In previous years, it would be DD1 going to SonIL's with DGD, myself and DS, DD2 would go to her DP's that year and then she and DP would come to mine the year I hosted Christmas if that makes sense. DD2 and DP don't have any children, DD2 sadly found out earlier this year she can't have them due to a medical condition. DS is grown up but much younger than the DDs and single, so tends to spend Christmas with me and DD1, either at SonIL's parents or mine. Hope that makes sense so far!
DD2 and DP separated a few months ago very messily, exP became nasty once it was confirmed that DD2 couldn't have children and it ended badly. DD2 is suffering the effects of this, no official diognosis as I can't get her to the doctors but DD1, DS and I are worried about her, we're keeping an eye on it.
Since the separation, DD2 has been made legal guardian of a friend's daughter for various complicated reasons, she hasn't adopted her but this is the long-term aim, depending to a point on what happens in the next few months/year. I've been quite heavily involved with the little girl since DD2 is now effectively a single parent and she's a real sweetheart, fits in perfectly. DD2 was invited to SonIL's parents for Christmas as she obviously won't be going to exP's. DD1 asked her DP (SonIL) if her DD (friend's little girl, not official yet but going to be the easiest way to refer to her) could come too, he said that was fine.
Earlier in the month SonIL's father was taken ill with appendicitis and rushed to hospital, he's been back at home 5 days now and still recovering, it's a slow process due to his age but he's expected to make a full recovery. I offered to take over Christmas this year but SonIL's mother said no, she would be fine to do it at hers as long as we all helped out, which I was fine with as that's what happens anyway, if I end up doing more than usual at hers this year then that's fine, I don't mind at all.
So SonIL's mother has phoned today to say that she's thought about it, and actually she's happy to have the usual lot from my DD1's side of the family over and DD2, but not DD2's DD because she's 'not family.' I was absolutely furious, began explaining to her that actually she is, at which point she said she had to go and put the phone down on me So now wondering how on earth to play this one! Advice would be much appreciated.
So she is excluding A CHILD from her "family xmas". If she won't budge I'd stay at home with your DD2 and the little girl she is guardian for. Next year when it's your turn to host just invite "family".
It seems odd she is excluding a young child. Can't see why she would do this TBH.
Tell her you won't be coming, get in as much rough Xmas rations yourself as you can, and host your own meal. Dreadful to exclude a child.
That is just fucking cruel.
By the way - I wouldn't go even if she recants and says 'Oh bring her then'. It might be made awkward for the little 'un.
Explain calmly that she in the process of adoption as you say and she is therefore family.
I have to say it sounds an awful lot for her to host. Perhaps offer to share up duties or financial cost
Wow, I could understand if she had said no to the whole thing but to wand to exclude a child is bloody horrible.
She sounds utterly vile.
As cozie said, I wouldn't go even if she takes her words back, she is unlikely to make the little one feel welcome if she's capable of such horrible sentiments.
Tbh, I would cease going there full stop, the woman sounds like a horror.
Tell her that as the child is too young to be left home alone, you will be hosting Christmas for your other children at your house. To give her the benefit of the doubt, maybe the MIL is a bit overwhelmed with sick husband etc & hadn't quite realised the situation with the nearly dd.
Btw, what did she expect your DD to do with the little girl? Leave her home alone?!
Wow, complicated lot there.
I can't see how DD is any less family to her than your DD2. After all she's 'just' her daughter in laws sister. But she's clearly made the distinction in her head somehow.
I wouldn't bother having any further discussions with her, she didn't want to hear you before so won't now. You've plenty of time to get the food in, have Christmas with your DS, DD2 and her DD. Let DD1 and DP know they're welcome to come but you won't make them choose.
I think I have my head around the matter. The problem seems to be that your DD2 is welcome for Christmas dinner with the ILs but her fostered (for lack of a better term) daughter isn't? I have no idea how to handle it but I agree with you that she should be included as part of the family. In your situation I would be tempted to have DD2 and her DD to my house for Christmas but I have no idea what sort of a rift that would cause in the family! I have a stepdaughter and I made it very clear to my parents that she was part of the family and I wouldn't have her treated any differently to my biological son so I totally understand why you're upset. Family is more than just blood and marriage.
I'm likely to have a child at my house next week who is no actual relation by eg blood or long term association. He'll be getting a small pressie and a selection box in exactly the same way as the other kids who'll be there. That's Xmas for me anyway.
Where did they imagine the child was going to go if her mum is invited but she isn't?
That is awful to exclude a child from Christmas!
I would stay home with your DD and her DD and do Christmas at your place. Next year don't invite them to Christmas at yours!
If I were you, I'd go to the supermarket tonight or tomorrow and get enough in to do Christmas myself! Even if I were DD1 I would be telling her to fuck off and wouldn't go too!
What a mean spirited old hag!
Ok. It is a bit confusing. But, your daughters inlaws, are hosting for their own family, for their son and your dd, and your other adult ds and you, and this year you expect them to also include your other adult dd and prospective adoptive child?
How many are coming from your inlaws side in total?
How many are coming to yours the years you are hosting, aside from your own son and daughters?
This year, when your dds mil has her husband recovering from major abdominal surgery, and is bound to host Christmas, and have probably bought all the food and planned it all, she suddenly has to cater for more people that she does not know, than she normally does?
I bet she really regrets not taking up your offer of you hosting, but she possibly felt she couldnt, baring in mind the cost of buying all the food.
I just get the feeling that she is really exasperated.
Maybe it is time you start hosting Christmas for your own immediate family every year, and just let your dd1 come every second year to yours?
Christmazilla! Don't go.
What does DSIL think of his ma's stance?
Firstly, I have to say that you have written a very clear OP. Well done!
I wouldbe careful not to escalate this too quickly. SonIL's DM may have not thought it through and may have spoken without thinking of the consequences. Obviously, she was still totally out of order, rude and mean but you may wish to give her another chance. Is it possible to speak to your SonIL, or maybe you could get DD1 to raise it. Without knowing all the dynamics of the family it is hard to know how to deal with it best.
If you find that your sonIL's DM really did mean it then obviously none of you should go. You will need a last minute shopping expedition!
Good luck. I hope it turns out ok.
But Gold the MIL was ASKED if it was okay for DD2 and her foster daughter to come, she said okay and now she's taken back the invitation for the foster daughter but not DD2.
OP - get thee to Asda and get your own Christmas dinner in and have a lovely small family Christmas at home.
I would have xmas at home with DD2 DS and the wee one. It sounds like she was wanting you to do a whole lot to help her out this year and yet she still wants to exclude the wee one.
I hope you tell DD1 the reason why you won't be going this year ans stick to your guns-even if you get an apology and late invite.
What she has said is beyond cruel.
My DSister and myself were adopted and many moons ago there was a family wedding to which my DP's were invited too but my DSister and l wasn't. Obviously my DP's didn't go but the knowledge that we were being excluded because we were not "blood" has stayed with me to this day.
I think the amount of people coming for Christmas possibly matter a lot.
The inlaws probably never banked on having to host for 3 extra adults from your side every year they host.
It is fine for you to host your own children, and grandchildren, and childrens partners. But unless you also host for the inlaws other adult children, it may be a bigger burden (both financial and in terms of work load) for the inlaws when they host.
Is the little girl much younger or a very different age from your other DGC?
Yes, but that was before her husband had surgery?
Maybe she relied on her husband to help, and instead she now finds herself in a position where she has to help him alot, and it is getting too much for her?
Op mentions his age and slow recovery, but what about her age? Maybe it is simply too much for her, and she is too proud/ashamed to admit it?
YANBU. A young child cannot be excluded! That's fucking awful.
Do your own Xmas at yours.
MIL might have been asked if it was ok to bring one more adult, and then one more child, she might not herself have invited another adult and child?
MIL possibly also does not know the ins and outs of things, and possibly think that this child can celebrate Christmas with her own mum (and dad?) ?
So why agree and then take it back? If she's agreed then she keeps to it, to exclude a child only a few days before Christmas is bloody awful.
This is just the same as the other thread where the "grandmother" won't buy for her child's adopted son as he "isn't blood." This little girl is being looked after as if she was your grand daughter and should be treated as such by everyone. If it was me, I would be refusing to go and giving all the other invited people the reason why along with an invite to come to mine instead.
Regardless of how many people are invited it's the "not family" comment that's U.
Maybe the "it is not family" was just an excuse.
Maybe she is just overworked and stressed, and feel it is too much for her?
But op seems to have disappeared...
"I have to say it sounds an awful lot for her to host. Perhaps offer to share up duties or financial cost."
Bollocks to that. She has insisted she do it and it is as expensive for the family who host alternate years.
I'd stay at home and have your own Christmas, I couldn't look at her without the urge to slap her one, what a horrible thing to do to a child.
Exactly Tanrenath, and if the FIL's condition was so bad she didn't feel able to cope with hosting Christmas, she was give "an out" earlier when the OP offered to host this year.
OP still need to tell us how many from her inlaws family SHE is hosting every second year. What if it is only her son in law and his parents, against her additional adult children?
Why relinquish "her turn" for hosting Christmas if she has already bought all the food, she would then do it again the following year?
Agree with others, Christmas at home with your DS, your DD2 and your soon-to-be-granddaughter. Make sure DD1 knows why.
Next year, don't invite SonIL's parents. You don't need people like that in your life. Your DD1 has to have a relationship with them, you can just send cards and be polite.
Now, it's not too late, get yourself to Sainburys tonight and see if you can buy the Christmas lunch essentials, I was in our local one earlier and they are quite well stocked as I think they are expecting tomorrow to be busy, go tonight if you can (actually, now would be a good time, it's usually quite quiet around 7pm ish in ours, gets busy later again as people go out after dinner)
I seem to be the only one to have some sympathy for an elderly lady with a husband recovering from major surgery, who ended up in the regrettable position of being her turn to host Christmas.
I feel really sorry for DD1 in all this.
Thats just evil, my DM would most certainly not my step-nephew from xmas coz hes not blood, my DS in laws would not exclude her Dson from xmas because he wasnt blood, to uninvite a child but not the parent is just nasty.
OP, if you do bow out of this Christmas tradition with the inlaws, please do it with some decorum and dignity. Just say
"Edna dear, it is too much for you to host Christmas for so many now that my other daughter is a single parent, and your husband is recovering from surgery. I will host Christmas for my own family this year"
Gold If she was overworker and stressed, so could have said to OP that she wasnt up for everyone coming, and OP could have made other arrangements, but to just uninvite a child for xmas is mean.
I also reckon she's had misgivings due to her DH's operation, and bungled her delivery of declining the invite probably because she was embarrassed.
I'd get DD1 to talk to her and ask her outright. Suggest that DD1 and her P go to the in laws as planned this year, the rest of you stay home.
I can see why you're annoyed but in the spirit of peace and love I'd find an alternative to fuming.
The OP offered to play host this year, so if MIL felt unable to cope, there's her out.
In my mind, that absolves her of any 'I can't cope with a child with everything else that's going on' related excuse she might come up with.
That woman has put your DD and SIL in an awful position. It would entirely be her fault if everyone rejected having Christmas with her and came to yours instead.
She would be massively out of pocket though. She had bought food for extra adults that was now not coming, and be expected to host them the following year too. It would possibly mean that she had forked out for Christmas two years running. The way I see it, her only mistake was in agreeing to host for one more adult, she may have said "no" sooner had she known that the "just one more" would in fact be two more.
THe MIL was given the option to not do it at all.
She knew who was coming, it is 1 child more than expected and she said that was fine. Then decided not. One child makes no difference. Maybe she doesn't actually want the "foster child's" mother there either and this is her stupid way of going about it.
well that would be the end of alternating xmases with them for me. and of course we (you, DD2 and young DD) wouldn't be going thsi year.
I dont know how normal it is to host for your daughter in laws mum and siblings and their grandchildren. In the past, it was only the mum and the extra son, now it is also the daughter, and eventually a potential future adoptive daughter is added. The poor mil probably wondered who else OP had waiting in the wings that she would ask to invite?
Gold, I suspect it they swapped then it would be the other family the following year. The food doesn't have to be wasted. Most could be frozen and tbf it is the MIL own doing. She is being cruel to a child so losing money is the consequence.
I, too, would just host my own Christmas dinner in this circumstance.
Whatever the ins and outs and if there are far more people on one side than the other, excluding a little girl because she is not 'family' I think is cruel.
The MIL may be stressed, looking for an out. That is fine but surely she should have just said and taken the opportunity offered to her for the OP to host everyone. I would take the hint and just host my own.
Yanbu, that's really out of order. I would call her back, say that you are really disappointed in her attitude, that your dd2's daughter certainly is family and that you, dd2 and dd2's daughter won't be coming for Christmas. Get some food in tomorrow and have a lovely time by yourselves.
Have Xmas at yours for ds, dd2 and the little one. I would just say to the other family that as you obviously cannot leave the child home alone you will have to pull out. Be nice about it and leave them to it.
Gold are you the other MIL?
Doesn't matter what you think is "normal," Gold. This is what the OP's family/inlaws have done and presumably it has worked very well previously.
Is your dd2 foster child the only child going? If so I think your sons in laws have just realised that doing Christmas, especially with a child around a presumly unchild proof house, after the fil being ill is just to much for them. I guess it depends on how old this child is though. They shouldn't just be excluding the child though, I think that's mean, they need to be honest with you. Just do Christmas round yours instead, inviting the in laws if they want to. I think you need to be the better person in this and show an united front that this child is part of your family. Where are they expecting her to go anyway?
I understand what you're saying Gold, but it doesn't come near to being a decent enough reason to exclude a child in those circumstances.
She had a way out, she chose not to take it. And she has apparently said she won't have the little girl there because she's not family, not because she can't cope. Whether or not she has told the truth about that is neither here nor there, as what she actually said is unforgivable. It sounds like it could be adoption prejudice at play which sadly happens in some families.
The fact is, if this really was a case of not being able to face catering for a large amount of people, there is no logic in simply disinviting a child. It just doesn't make sense.
If you want to see the silver lining in this, OP, it's that you have found out what a horror this woman is before you have to spend Christmas with her again. I feel extremely sorry for your DD having this woman as a MIL.
Gold I cannot have sympathy for a woman who has excluded a child from a family Christmas with the justification she's "not family," no matter what her circumstances.
I wouldn't ring her
Just tell dd1 that you'll have the family round hers
Fairyegg, I think the OP's DD1 has a child who is also going.
Did the MIL suggest what the foster DD was to do while her guardian was at MIL's?!
Sorry, I honestly can not see how having one little girl there makes any difference! She won't eat much, and what she does eat would probably have been cooked anyhow!
I had surgery on Tuesday, I am doing Christmas dinner! The OP isn't asking the elderley man to cook the meal, no doubt with all those adults there, they would have pitched in! The woman is being a mean spirited old hag! All this "she's not family" business might bite her really hard on the arse one day!
i agree mrselletow
i have never once seen empty dishes after xmas dinner. there is always leftover food. unless the woman has meal planned right down to exact portions then there is likely to be enough food and it wont be extra cooking involved. literally setting ine more plate, knife and fork on the table. if it is about the extra food then all she had to do was ask OP to bring extra with her. she ahs already asked her to help out so i would imagine she isn't too shy to ask for her to chip in with food. and if she was then how come she isn't to shy to say the child isn't family? i know which i'd feel worse about doing.
Some people are prejudiced about adoptees unfortunately - there's another thread about it on the board just now. So what you do now will kind of set the tone for the rest of that wee girl's life within your family.
Call your dd1 and tell her that as the dd is now not invited, of course you, dd2, her dd and your DS are having Christmas at home. No need to make a fuss or song and dance, but you need to establish the adopted dd's position in your family now. She is your family and anyone who can't accept that can fuck off to the far side of fuck.
And get to Asda!
Or maybe the OP should not have put the hostess in this position by first asking for ONE more guest to be included, and then another guest? The final guest may be a child, but MIL might think the little girl could spend Christmas with her own mum, and she might not know the circumstances.
I dont think the MIL is cruel at all. Thoughtless maybe, but not cruel. I think she is between a rock and a hard place, with her elderly husband recovering.
It might have been her "out" when op suggested she could host Christmas, but she might not have realized
1. That her husband would take so long to recover
2. That she would be expected to host for one more adult than normal
3. That she would be expected to also host another child.
I am sorry, but she has my sympathy.
I think MIL has just been hit by the realisation of what she is taking on, bearing in mind the recovering husbands, and panicked.
Is she aware of the exact situation that DD2 is in and that the little girl has nowhere else to go? Saying she is not family is not on but she might have the impression that the little girl has her own family to go to.
All depends on how much MIL really knows about DD2's situation and if she said it in spite or if it was just a desperate (ill thought out) excuse.
I would wager all the people making excuses for the hostess are off the mark; she doesn't want the child there because she is being fostered. And she won't want her there even when she's adopted. My DD is adopted and members of my family (thankfully only a couple) have made it clear she's not considered family.
Fuck 'em (first time I've sworn on MN
OP - I wouldn't kick off about this, I'd just arrange to have a lovely Xmas at home with your DD2, her DD and your DS. Hopefully next year you'll be joined by DD1 and her DP - and the little girl will officially be your granddaughter.
Like I said, I understand what you're saying Gold, but that woman won't get an ounce of sympathy from me in light of the fact that she verbalised the idea of excluding a child because she's 'not family'.
I am sorry, but I think that to the MIL this is just any child, a child who could spend Christmas with her own parents! I am guessing the MIL does not realize what is going on. I may be wrong.
IF the MIL knows that this child will soon be adopted by DD2 because her own mum is not coping/dying/a dopehead or whatever, THEN she is in the wrong to exclude her. But, not if she just thinks that dd2 is taking the piss dragging along her friends daughter.
Don't you think that the MIL should know that the child would be going to her "real mother's" for Christmas if she could and the fact she will be with the OP's family is because she can't?
Is this a reverse AIBU?
If she's overwhelmed she can ask for help. If its too much she could have uninvited the dd2, but she didnt. She uninvited a child.
JustFab, I dont know.
But how is MIL to know? MIL does not really know dd2, though, does she, as dd2 does not normally spend Christmas with them? To her dd2 might be a stranger, and she might not consider the set up too much. I think I too might find it too much to include a stranger in my family Christmas, and toe my hands even more if I am asked if this stranger could bring her friends daughter. She might just not understand the full scenario here.
ooh, maybe the other MIL planned this knowing that OP, her DD2 and the young DD would pull out so she had fewer to cater for.
She doesn't have mine, of all the options to choose, she chose to say the CHILD could not come? Bizarre. Extra adults are a lot more trouble than a child. She'd be bettter to say soryy actually she just can't cope with it all this year if that is the real problem but tbh, it doesn't sound like that is the problem.
If I was the op, I'd speak to the dd and the SonIL and see what they make of it and let the sonIL maybe take it up with his mum.
I suppose it depends how the good the relatuionships are. But you probably need to plan on making your own christmas
She might just find Christmas too much, and with the set back of nursing her elderly husband after surgery, and catering for two more might be too much.
When my dh had his appendix out a few years ago, he took months to be himself again, and he is a fit and healthy young man.
When I had my appendix out, it took several weeks before I could even walk straight, let alone lift anything. And I was just 19, and very fit and strong.
It does sound like DD1's MIL has a lot on her plate and maybe she just can't cope with so many people.
But to exclude a child is cruel, and to announce this three days before Christmas is stupid - where else does she think this little one can go?
What do your DD1 and her DP think?
i think if someone asked me if they could bring along a child that wasn't theirs to xmas dinner i'd think there would be a pretty good reason the child wasn't at their own house/with their own parents for xmas dinner. it's not as if it's tagging along for a day out shopping.
"where else does she think the little one can go"
erm, her parents?
I reckon she excluded the child because she could use the excuse "not family", whereas she could not find an excuse to exclude the other addition (dd2) that OP asked her to include. Too proud to say "sorry, it is too much for me".
I'd have my own Christmas at home with DD2 and the child and let the other adults decide what to do and where to go without pressure.
I'm also being very dim, but I don't get the massively out of pocket bit? Surely you just eat up the food over however many days if you don't host a big Christmas lunch and you were expecting to?
Our January menus can be very odd as a consequence, but no food is wasted.
I agree santa.
No child would be away from their birth family at Xmas without good reason, even if it is as simple as illness.
Gold you are assuming a level of stupidity on the part of the MIL that you think she thinks that the child is just tagging along for something to do.
I could never exclude a child at Christmas, family or not, and she sounds utterly vile to even consider it. And as for your excuse of her not knowing how to univite the adults is laughable. Far easier to say "it's a bit out of hand and I dont think FIL will cope after his op, so can we just have DD1 and her DP this year?"
No one would have an issue with that, but uninviting a child that has nowhere else to go is just disgusting and I wouldnt have the woman in my house ever again.
It is horribly unkind to exclude this poor little child. But maybe it is time the Christmas invitation arrangements were complete re-organised. And made much less complicated.
I can have a lot of sympathy for an older woman, a bit wobbly herself after her husband's surgery feeling that the Christmas entertaining is getting too much. But to uninvite a child is a miserable response - given all the help that is being offered it's not even a necessary response.
And given that it is extraordinarily odd for a child not to spend Christmas with her/his own parents, how blinkered must the MIL be not to think that there is some painful backstory. I mean really, how many people randomly take their friend's children away from the child's family to somewhere else for Christmas?! And even if the MIL doesn't know the backstory why not ask her own son and DIL?
You said DD1 asked SonIL not her MIL - is it possible SonIL has only just mentioned to his DM that the little girl would be there also?
Blimey. What complicated Christmas arrangements. What are you dong going to the other inlaws? Are you in an episode of Gavin and Stacey? Have your own Christmas, OP. Illness and operations can be overwhelming and all-consuming for elderly folk. Bow out graciously. They will thank you for it.
Thank you so much everyone for your responses, just having a read through and then I'll try and answer your questions. Sorry, I know it is very complicated!
It isn't complicated though. 2 families brought together by marriage. You are just extending the guest list from one fmaily goes to one to both sets of parents, children, grandchildren celebrate together.
Not once have I spent Christmas with my parents. It is a pretty big deal for a child not to be "at home" then.
All the adults going have chipped in financially as we do every year, including DD2 who doesn't normally go to SonIL's parents.
The added complication is that myself, DD1 and SonIL and their 2DCs, DD2 and DS have all already opted out of annual drinks and nibbles at SonIL's parents on Christmas Eve as it's DD2's little girl's birthday- we're going out for the day to do family stuff with her So SonIL's mother is already put out with us over that, not going for Christmas could well be the last straw. But obviously DD2 and I won't be going as her little girl isn't welcome.
SonIL's mother has declared we have two options:
A) DD2's little girl goes to her bio mother's/bio family's (NOT an option)
or B) she goes to my DC's dad's (we are divorced but still friends) TBH his family would probably welcome DD2's little girl with open arms, but she barely knows him let alone his family, and DD2 would feel awful about the two of them imposing on him at the last minute.
So not really options at all! Still working through the thread
I think that the MIL is stressed and is looking for a reason not to host Christmas. The fact that she was so rude to you suggest that she almost wants to create problems so that she will not have to host Chritmas. I would tread carefully and would get your sonil to speak to her.
Quint - I do understand the point you are making, but as the person who does the vast majority of the Christmas food, I don't think that excluding this little girl, or even the little girl and the OP's dd2, will actually make any noticeable difference in the amount of work that the hostess will have to do.
And it sounds as if the OP and her dd1's in-laws know each other well enough for them to say to the OP, 'Look, I am really struggling at the moment, what with dh's convalescence and all the work for Christmas - and the extra guests are the final straw - could you help by doing X, Y orZ? Or could we make different arrangements this year? So sorry to do this at such short notice.'
If she's doing chrustmas eve drinks and nibbles as well as the big day, it sure doesn't sound like she's some frail old lady struggling under the strain of it all.
Her dictatorial "you have two options" for the sake of not hosting one small girl us also very unfriendly.
I therefore conclude that a) YANBU, b) MIL is a cunt, c) you should host your own Christmas and let your dd1 and SIL know that they're free to attend if they wish, d) ask the cunt MIL to refund your chippings in and e) not worry a jot about the jointage of her nose. What a fucking bitch!
Sounds like she is punishing the little girl for "ruining" her Xmas Eve by uninviting her.
She sounds like an utter bitch and I would be letting her know exactly what I thought of her.
DD1 and SonIL and their 2DCs, DD2 and DS have all already opted out of annual drinks and nibbles at SonIL's parents on Christmas Eve as it's DD2's little girl's birthday- we're going out for the day to do family stuff with her
Is this why she is against the DC being there - as her birthday has messed up the plans?
I'm not sure if you should be bothered by the last straw - my and DH family met once at the wedding - ask vaguely about each other out of politeness and it affects no-one adversely.
I think hosting Christmas at your house is the way to go but talk to your DD1 first as she is the one who might have to take the brunt of things as they are her ILs.
X-post Sugar, she sounds vile, to punish a little girl who has already had a traumatic time for having the temerity to have been born on the day of her annual "drinks and nibbles" party! Which btw, sounds fecking joyless, anything that has the word "nibbles" attached to it will not be good ime
Gold SonIL's parents have known DD2 and her DD were coming since October, plus 2 family members on their side who normally go to theirs when they're hosting are going elsewhere this year at the last minute, so they would actually be catering for less than they planned even if they have DD2's daughter. The arrangement we have with myself and DS going to theirs and then them coming to ours the next year has been going for 6 years, so not as if they weren't planning for it. SonIL's mother is well aware of the background with DD2's daughter and knows she will not be going back to her bio family in the forseeable future.
SonIL isn't impressed.
Two other children going, SonIL and DD1's DCs, aged 3 and 7 months. DD2's DD is 7, she sees a lot of the younger ones and is really good with them. So having DD2's DD really isn't a problem
Will you be asking for a refund Aza?
oooh...evil thought....perhaps you could fake a homemade card from your DD2's DD to the outlaws wishing them a merry Xmas with lots of love and kisses?
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Well it's difficult to know what is going on. But this woman just sounds as if she doesn't like change. I am being charitable! I don't think there is any other solution but to make your own decision and stay at home with your DD2 the little girl and your son and whoever else wants to join you. This Christmas business does get out of hand. I've heard quite a bit of this who goes where and who doesn't go over the years.
I think you should get the last 2 posts deleted. It is a very unusual name and it would be vv easy for the MIL/birth family to find this thread.
Have reported for you.
You might want to think about asking MN to remove her name OP. it's beautiful but unusual, and it maybe shouldn't be posted on an Internet forum as big as this.
Ok, Yanbu. The fact that other young children will be their finalises it for me.
It's a problem because she is choosing to make it one .
As her solutions aren't acceptable - you need to make other plans.
Id hit the supermarkets as soon as possible talk to DD2 and DS about coming to yours and tell your DD1 she and her family and anyone else are welcome at yours but its fine if they still go to DD1 ILs as you are not looking to cause problems.
Then re-think your future Christmas plans and talk to everyone early next year about them.
My god the woman is an absolute cunt
I hope no one turns up for her nibbles or Xmas day and she festers all alone.
The cruel bitch.
Aza Is DD1's MIL normally a control freak. 2 options my arse. make a 3rd option. You, DS, DD2 and DGD are staying at home.
Oh, and get your money back from her.
Thanks for the reports about the use of a RL name - we've edited it out of the first post and withdrawn the second.
I like the way that she has 'declared' your two options!! Cheeky cow. Option 3. You do Christmas at home with your own family. Simple. make sure you get your contribution back first though!!!
Don't let this woman control you. Ask her to return your contributions or share out some of the food bought with it as you will be hosting a "family" Christmas at your home
Bogeyface and outraged thank you ever so much, didn't even realise you could do that!
I think there could be an element of DD2's DD has 'ruined' her christmas drinks, yes We've honestly never had this issue with the Ils before, all a bit upsetting really.
It does sound a bit like she is desperate for an excuse to get out of it, since you would have to be incredibly dim to not see that refusing to have one extra child in your home for Christmas makes you look like Scrooge himself.
Stay very calm and cheerful and say that since she can't accommodate you all you will do your own thing and not add to her burden. Tell her you'll pop round at such-and-such a time to get your contribution back as you'll be needing it for your own home but you hope they have a lovely day. Basically 'nice' her. It's the best revenge. And have a lovely day with your DD2, her soon-to-be-DD and the others.
Oh, and next year, assume the sharing thing won't happen again. Just make your own plans.
she sounds like a vile bitch
and who on earth does she think dhe is to give you 'options'
I would spend xmad at home with DD2 snd the little girl. there is still plenty if time to sort the food. maybe check with DD1 if she rather wants to come to yours (if I were DD1, i would not want to go to MIL either).
I do not think i would want to have with MIL again. ever.
Well it's all coming out now. DD1, SonIL and their DCs are going to come to us for Christmas, SonIL's mother has declared that DD2 is clearly only looking after this little girl out of desperation to have a child of her own, she can't get pregnant so she's going to make do with someone elses So it'll be Christmas at mine with DD1, SonIL and their DCs, DS, DD2 and her DD. DD1 and SonIL are off to the local supermarket as we speak for last minute Christmas supplies Dread to think what the reprocussions are going to be.
great that DD1 is so supportive.
hope you have a lovely xmas at yours.
With the further information she really does sound unreasonable. Don't go and have your own Xmas at home.
Wow! What a bitch she sounds!
WHAT a heartless cow.
That poor girl isn't able to be with her mum but she has others to love her. To be such a bitch to your DD is unforgivable in my book.
Have a good one, OP. Worry about any repercussions after Xmas. I'm sure you'll deal with them admirably.
Dear God she sounds absolutely awful. Bitter, resentful, sour.
Enjoy your Christmas with all your family around you OP.
OMG what a bitch,good that DD1 and family are supportive. Bet soninlaw is not impressed with his mum
Thats very kind of her to give you two options
I hope you have an absolutely wonderful Christmas - you sound like a lovely mum and grandma, and she has shown herself up as despicable.
Just read the thread!
Bloody hell, what a complete cow!
Glad you have got it sorted. she won't be happy!
What a rotten thing to say! How would excluding this little girl change the situation? She sounds awfully resentful and weird about it all!
Glad your DD1 and her husband are supportive and you will all have a nice Christmas together.
Are there really people out there who think like this? Fucking hell, that is about a mean/bitter/cruel is it's possible to get. OP I hope you anre your family all have a lovely time, without that poisonous witch to worry about.
You SIL sounds like an absolute star, I would be very proud and happy that your DD had married such a nice man. Which in itself is a miracle considering what an example he had in his mother!
She is having a tantrum because things didnt go her way with the drinks, so she tried to make a point by uninviting your GDD for lunch and when THAT didnt work she got nasty.
I hope she has learned her lesson about what tantrums get you....ie; A big fat fuck all.
Wow. Your poor sonIL though, he must be bitterly disappointed with his mother
Just a hunch but was it her suggestion that you all spend Xmas together at alternate houses? I wonder if she is one of "those" mothers but had found a clever way of having her son every year without having to share him?
She doesnt like sharing does she?
SonIL's mother apparently doesn't understand why I can't just send DD2 and her DD to DD2's dad's if I feel so strongly She and DD1 have been very close up until now, so she knows full well how worried we are about DD2 at the moment anyway, she knows I'm not about to send them off to her dad's (as good a dad as he is he doesn't see an awful lot of DD2 and doesn't know him so I'd rather be there if she needs me, IYSWIM).
Oh the fireworks are going to be awful Shipwrecked. But worth it
SonIL's mother apparently doesn't understand why I can't just send DD2 and her DD to DD2's dad's if I feel so strongly
In other words, SonIL's mother cant understand why you wont do exactly what she wants.
* SonIL's mother has declared that DD2 is clearly only looking after this little girl out of desperation to have a child of her own, she can't get pregnant so she's going to make do with someone elses *
That has got to the be one of the most disgusting things i've ever heard.
I'd like to be there if MIL said that to adoptive parents, it wouldnt be pretty, have a nice xmas without the toxic people.
Its lovely your DD1 and SIL are being supportive.
Have a good Christmas - and try not to worry about repercussions as youve done absolutely nothing wrong.
Yup, adoption prejudice and as if that were not ugly enough, infertility prejudice as well. How awful suddenly to see such an unpleasant side of someone you presumably felt you knew and liked. It's all going to rebound on MIL though, isn't it?
I'm glad SonIL and DD1 are being supportive, and I wish you all a very good Christmas.
SonIL's mother apparently doesn't understand why I can't just send DD2 and her DD to DD2's dad's if I feel so strongly
But it is none of her business- it is not for her to organise your family for you!!! Glad that everyone has told her to get stuffed and they are all coming to you. I reckon you will have a much better time.
Glad you've agreed to host. From now on, I think you have to reduce these people's contact with your family, your "soon-to-be-GDD" doesn't need people like this in her life, sounds like she's already had a lot to deal with, you need to help protect her from any more shit.
It just disgusts me when some first has a dig at someones infertility (Hope shes not religious, god didnt want you to have children bullshit, ugh)
And then dig at someone for actually doing something that takes a big heart and alot of strength, not everyone could raise someone elses child, DD2 should have admiration and praise for doing it.
OMG it's worse than anyone imagined then!
What a disgusting excuse for a human being that woman is.
OP, I very much hope you have a lovely Christmas with your lovely family. Sounds like you're all good people and are better off away from the toxic influence.
Awful. Glad your other DD is coming to you. As for 'repercussions', they should be something for SonIL (who sounds like she should be leader of North Korea...) to worry about. She's the one who has refused a vulnerable child access to her house to spend Christmas with her new family. Pretty hard to come out of that looking good.
Not just me who though that then MrsFlibble!
I think it's lovely that DD2 has been given the chance to be a parent and she's giving a child a second chance at a loving and supportive family.
Glad to hear that DD1 and SonIL are being supportive too. I hope it doesn't make things too awkward for SonIL with the rest of his family though.
Wow, I'm literally open mouthed at the update. What an awful, spiteful, mean thing to say.
I hope you all have a wonderful, Merry Christmas at yours. And deal with the fall out in the new year
MrsFlibble oh yes, very religious, you can bet we'll be getting that one sooner or later and DD2's fragile at the moment as it is
I just can't understand where all this has come from- guessing it must stem back from the Christmas eve thing.
Good god. What difference does it make to this woman what arrangements re: children DD2 makes ? It's absolutely none of her business and doesn't affect her in any way at all ? Why the hell should she feel so strongly about it ?
Anyway, really pleased to read that you'll have all your family with you this Xmas - hope you have a great time!
Hopefully seeing her family rally around her, and "take her side" as it were will be a boost for her.
What a toxic woman. I feel sorry for SIL's father as he's recovering and will miss out seeing his son and family from his wife's despicable opinion. If she had a problem before when this was arranged months ago, she should have spoken up. Instead she's opted for 3 days before, after you've all given money (will she refund any back?), and hung up on you to make her point. Disgusting. But I bet you're so proud of your DD's and your SIL. Have a wonderful day with your DD's, SIL and GC's
Aza If she ever says that to you or your family, then the reply is ^ God thought DD2 was special and loving, so a child will have a good life with us^
Of course its all bullshit, your DD2 was unlucky with a complication, and now is doing an amazing thing by taking in a child, whos gonna get a good life with a loving parent.
MIL can fuck off into a religious, evil, prejudice pit.
My guess it is coming from a deep seated desire to be utterly conventional and to want to avoid anything that might indicate to others that her entire extended family is not 'perfect'.
Are there others coming that she might want to be painting the 'perfect family' picture for and make her want to airbrush out anyone who doesn't fit her bigoted view of what a family should look like?
What is it with some people? My MIL is religious but nearly passed out when I told her DH and I might adopt.
Azzaragye - sounds like you have handled this situation with sensitivity and grace. Please don't underestimate the importance of parents (you in this case) sticking up for their dc.
I am also heartened that the son of such a woman can see right from wrong and is making a stance. The future bodes well for dd2's girl with you lot behind her.
She has been fine all this time as everyone has done what she wanted, the second it didnt go her way she kicked off.
My MIL is exactly like this and as a result, her son (my DH) has not seen or spoken to her in 3 years and wont again he says. You reap what you sow.
Sorry - just read The 'religious' update. Shall I PM some biblical verses supporting adoption for you to throw back in her teeth when the blowout starts!?
I am actually v angry just reading this thread. Just as angry with the GP's in presents for 3 children not the adopted 4th thread. How can anyone be so heartless and vile!
It's nice to be on a thread where the relatives, to a person, have done the right thing in standing up to MIL
people confuse me they really do - her own views are more important to her than the fact that she can spend Christmas with her son and his family - she had a perfectly reasonable excuse not to have everyone around for xmas - you would all have understood the situation if for one year she only had her son and your DD1 as her husband is recovering from op - but no - she chose to make her true feelings totally clear and at such short notice that she would alienate everyone in the family. I wonder what HER story will be when she has to explain to people she knows about why she didn't get to spend xmas with her family - I'm sure she'll become a victim in all of this - it's a shame that she couldn't just keep her opinions to herself.
In my family, the adopted siblings outnumber the bio siblings by 5:3. She'd just hate us - PM me her address and we'll appear at her door Christmas morning
I am spending Christmas with both ILs and my family. One of my family is a four-year-old foster child (DN). A delightful little boy who will be with my family long term and we treat him like he is one of our own (because in every way that counts, he is).
OP's awful IL would hate it. Not only does my DN have a visible disability, but also a different skin colour. The idea that either my DM or MIL wouldn't welcome him at Christmas is rightly ridiculous. He is family, plain and simple.
Ohhh CSIJanner you might as well
Tidydancer well done to your family for being so kind and welcoming, an example to us all. Incidently DD2's DD is actually of an obsure ethnic origin, but I don't think that's a factor because my family are too and she's never had a problem with any of us before... does make me wonder though
Well done to your DD1 and her Dh for standing by you, his mother is being a right old witch about the little one.
Enjoy your Christmas
Just read this thread and I am absolutely gobsmacked at the MIL's attitude - so much for 'A Merry Christmas One and All'
I feel so saddened for your SIL having a mother like that. I genuinely hope you all have a brilliant Christmas and your support for your DD2 shown over this helps her in her difficulties that she's having right now.
Suggest someone gives MIL a copy of A Christmas Carol........
Also I never realised the prejudiced that people have towards fostered/adopted children. Haven't those children been through enough in their lives without this attitude? I really cannot understand the reasoning behind this attitude - not blood ffs??????
DD2's DD is a lucky girl to have you in her corner. You sound like a lovely gran OP. wishing you and yours a very merry Christmas!
SonIL has spoken to his mother to try and make peace- don't hold out much hope there! She feels that she only wants immediate family around her DH while he's recovering- apparently DD2 whom she hardly sees counts as close family but her DD does not- back to the whole can't have a child of her own thing . She also doesn't see why mine, DS's and DD1's world centres around DD2- it doesn't, but being as she's having a difficult time at the moment and isn't coping as well as she would like us to think, yes, we are worried! She's also said if we're not coming on the 25th then we should at least come on Christmas Eve, bearing in mind we've already declined on the grounds of it being DD2's DD's birthday SO sonIL has given up for tonight, told her he won't be attending and is going to give her chance to cool off before he tries anything else
What a horrible excuse for a human being. You're better off well shot of her. Good on your SIL for sticking up for you!
So her life rotates around her family but yours shouldn't around yours......right.......
We have a history of foster placements in our family, but DN is our first very long term potentially permanent addition! There really is no difference in how he is treated when you compare him to my DCs and others in the family, which is personally how I believe it should be.
I am also shocked at the number of people who think it's ok to treat an adopted/foster child as some kind of poor relation. It is particularly staggering that people can't extend some normal human politeness and generosity to a child at Christmas. My family have their faults but they would never do this.
Just to add to the "not family" thing.
My DH's grandma will be on her own this Xmas, as she cancelled her previous arrangements as she is not very well. She is 84 and we really want her to come to us but she won't, she is adamant she will be happy on her own and tbf she probably will. But we have now had to rearrange some stuff in order to go and see her (she was going away so we were seeing her afterwards) on the day. I was explaining to my parents about her change of plan and they spoke at the same time. Mum said "You'd better bring another chair then!" and Dad said "13 for dinner? Someone is having theirs on a tray!"
They opened their home to her without even thinking about it. They have never met her, but it didnt cross their minds to do anything else. She is their daughters husbands grandma, so they could have easily said "oh what a shame" and left it at that, but they didnt.
She is very touched by their invitation and said that she would like to go to see them after Xmas, but is still insisting on staying at home.
Fuck me I am aghast at this vile vile vile woman's behaviour! I am so so
What a fucking stupid cunt she is. I mean really, she must be fucking stupid to be so nasty. What a bitch!
I'm so glad your son in law can see she is out of order and backing you up - he must be so embarrassed.
I hope she sees this thread and feels ashamed - the cunt.
I am shocked too snazzy
It shows there are a lot of nasty fucking cunts out there
What an absolute bitch. I hope she's a MN and reads this.
What a vile vile vile human being.
OP fuck them. Do your Christmas. Leave them to it. Cunts.
And I never say that. Ever.
Bogey your DParents sound lovely - THAT is what Christmas is about.
And she considers herself to be religious? I don't often speak about my faith on MN but this is the children's festival. Which celebrates the birth of Christ. And she's closing her door to a child - well, I'll leave you to draw the parable.
On another note though op, you seem to have brought up a cracking family. And you'll have an amazing Christmas together.
This woman is controlling, vicious and unpleasant. She deserves to have a quiet day and the knowledge that it is quiet because you have all chosen to go elsewhere.
Looking on the bright side though OP, what a lovely family you have that DD1 and SIL will stand with you to support DD2 and her DD.
I would like to quietly suggest that someone buggers off and grows up and it's not the OP.
Aza - you and your family all sound lovely. Your SIL's mother sounds controlling and nasty. What horrible things to say about your DD I am so pleased that DD1 & SIL are coming to you as well - I like him very much! I hope you all have a lovely, lovely day.
It is a shame when you have all been getting along so well, for so long, but sometimes people's nasty sides take a while to emerge. I feel for your SIL It must be very upsetting and embarrassing for him.
ChippingIn, well said.
She's being horrid/inflexible about your DD2s daughter and it's great that your DD1 and her DH recognise that you all need to be together this Xmas.
Or maybe she just feels that she can't cope with the whole thing given her husbands frail health, and she's used this as an excuse. (trying to be uber spirit of christmassy and give her the benefit of the doubt)
But it is a big pity that you've made plans that clash with her drinks do. Can you not adjust it a little so you can do both something with the birthday girl and so that you can whizz by on Christmas Eve? It puts your Son IL in a position where he won't see his parents at Christmas, which must be sad for both of them.
As you usually spend Xmas together you must generally get on?
quietly if you've got a problem with the language, why not take it up with the posters who used it, rather than the OP? OP hasn't called the woman in question any nasty names herself, by the way.
Your Sil must feel terrible, his mother seems utterly horrid. How lovely for both your DD and her DD that they have each other, two people who need each other, someone to love and care for... that is something very special that a blood bond does not automatically provide.
We found out this evening that instead of DM and DF having 13 of us for christmas there will now be 18! DM's friend has just had emergency surgery and her DH, DS's, DDil and DGD need somewhere to go... there is always room!
Merry Christmas OP.
There really is no reason to call the woman a bitch or a c**t.
The insomnia has hit so just to confirm a few things,sorry for drip feeding!
-the arrangement with alternate Christmases came about because 6 years ago when it started, 'family' Christmas at mine without the DDs would just be DS and me. So SonIL's parents invited DS and I to theirs, both families have always gotten on well (prior to this incident) so I offered to have them the next year and that's what we've done since, it's always worked out really well before now.
-SonIL's mother actually invited have DD2 for Christmas months ago, before I'd even thought ahead as far as Christmas. Admittedly this was before DD2 was guardian to her DD, but she did ask SonIL's mother and she said it was absolutely fine- she's gets on well with DD1 who is very close to DD2, so she does know the history with the bio family.
-meryl that's actually a really good point, thank you. We have theatre tickets booked for the evening for all of my family bar SonIL, DD1 and their DCs (too young to sit through it), the plan was for all of us to go into town for dinner beforehand. In previous years SonIL's mother has always done her Chirstmas Eve drinks thing in the morning, so when this was arranged, DD2 thought that we'd be able to go to SonIL's mother's in the morning, then a quiet afternoon and her DD's birthday celebration in the evening, so the whole thing was actually planned around doing both IYSWIM. Admittedly perhaps DD2 should have checked with SonIL's mother what time she was planning on doing her drinks thing, but given it's always been in the morning all the years we've known her (DD1 and SonIL have been together getting on for 10 years) she assumed it would be the same as usual. So I do accept that DD2 is partly to blame there, but in the past SonIL's mother has always been very relaxed about the whole drinks do, and when we first told her we wouldn't be able to come she seemed fine about it. Though that was before the fiasco over Christmas.
Anyway, what I was getting to is that I'll suggest to DD1 and SonIL at a more sensible hour that we cancel the meal beforehand and they go to his mother's instead, we can all go out for a meal together after Christmas. That way her son and grandchildren will be there but DD2's DD still gets her birthday treat.
*There is really is no reason to call the woman a bitch or a c*t
Unless she is a bitch or a CUNT.
And in this case it was perfectly justified.
Btw your username should be "poleupmybum"
all of a sudden now shes quite the proper parent and cannot be apart from her new "daughter" for dinner?
She's 7 years old, my DD2 is her legal guardian, her bio mother was fully behind this decision and has no intention of having her back any time soon. I do appreciate that it's not a normal set up. But it's not as simple as DD2 'cannot be apart from her', she has nowhere else to go, we are her family. SonIL's mother was asked if she would mind having DD2's DD too a couple of months ago, I said at the time we could make other arrangements for my half of the family this year but she insisted it was fine, the same for after her husband was taken ill.
The situation with DD2 hasn't been made into a drama, it really hasn't. Yes she's been through a lot this year and yes she's struggling to cope with it a bit, but the fact remains she has a 7 year old she's responsible for and you can't leave a 7 year old alone at Christmas just because she's not a blood relative.
The MIL sounds like a bit of a control freak.
OP, you have been as accomodating as you can, even thinking about rescheduling DD2's DD's birthday treat to accomodate MIL's xmas drinks.
If that doesn't appease her then there is no hope. She will probably find herself alone with her DH every Xmas.
"You do not sound like an actual grown up. Why the hell are you involved in some year on year off thing with someone you are not even related to?"
quietlysuggests, you aren't exactly sounding like a grown up either. I am wondering if you have friends who you see regularly. You know, with not being "even related to." Some people see people because they want too and not just because they share blood!
You don't uninvite a child from Xmas. You don't exclude a child from a Xmas they have been looking forward to and insist they are fobbed off with any old person you can think of.
Anyone on this thread who can't see why this is not ok and a bloody awful cruel thing to do, should be excluded themselves, ideally on a rock in the North Sea, far away from nice rational people.
And here I was giving the MIL the benefit of the doubt on the assumption NOBODY can be that cruel....
Maybe MIL feels like she's been left out of DD2 DD birthday celebrations so she's doing the same back.
Might I add, that's completely ridiculous but just a thought.
I can't begin to fathom the MIL's reasons for excluding a 7 yr old but the fact that her own son doesn't agree either speaks volumes. As for the poster that said about a 7 yr old 'running around' I wonder what she thinks the invited 3 yr old will be doing. The 7 yr old would probably be offering to help with preparations (at least that is what my now 8 yr old was doing last Christmas).
OP I hope you and all your family (related and not) have a lovely Christmas.
Flojo, that thought crossed my mind too. But that reduces the MiLs mentality to that of a petulant 5 year old
Hells bells to the no. Don't rearrange your plans for her. Only way you have a chance of showing her how unreasonable and unacceptable she is being.
The woman is a grade A cunt.
You should all go to yours, except cunt and her H.
Enjoy your day
quietlysuggests are you MIL??
Cos that's the only way your post makes any sense to me
Right, well I've suggested to DD1 that she SonIL and the DGCs go to the drinks think tomorrow evening, but SonIL is adament he's not going round to MIL's until she apologises
She's also requested that her DGCs (DD1 and SonIL's DCs) are taken round to hers for Christmas day, because it's not fair that they miss out on being with their grandparents at Christmas, they can do Christmas with their mum and dad in the morning SonIL is sticking to his guns on that one, so a happy Christmas at ours but explosions before and after I think!
Lord she sounds like hard work, and has really not got the idea that really it's only the most freakish people who don't want to spend Christmas with their children - she thinks not only should your DD2 not spend Christmas with her foster daughter, and she now thinks it wouldn't be a sign of her son being a crap father that he'd be perfectly happy to drop his DCs off somewhere else on Christmas day and not spend the day with them.
I'd ignore and avoid spending time with her unless you ahve too. In the future, I'd rather have Christmas just you and your DS rather than deal with that sort of person.
I love your SIL - if only all men had that much backbone then life would be much much better for a lot of people!
I still can't believe she has been that vile about your DD2 What the hell did she hope to achieve? Stupid nasty bint.
Quietlysuggests - to answer some of your points:
Firstly, the OP's Christmas arrangements - these have worked well for a number of years up to this one, and have given all concerned the chance to have a family christmas with their loved ones, so I cannot understand why you are so scathing about them. Fwiw, for several years, my lovely MIL used to invite friends of hers who would otherwise be alone at christmas to hers for Christmas dinner - she could have come to us, and had Christmas with her dgc, but this was her choice, and I admired her for it - she was treating her friends as family, as the OP and her dd1's MIL were doing for eachother's family - and that is an admirable thing to do, and exactly the Spirit do Christmas.
Secondly, if the MIL felt she couldn't cope with Christmas and a convalescent husband, she could either have taken the OP up on the help she offered, or simply explained it was all going to be beyond her, and could she cry off from the arrangements this year. She didn't have to uninvite a 7 year old who has nowhere else to go.
Not to mention the fact that the OP's dd1 has children of a similar age, and her MIL clearly doesn't feel that they will be too much for her or her convalescent dh. The difference being that they are 'family' and the per little girl doesn't count as family - which is a nasty attitude. I know she is not the MIL's blood family, but she IS part of the family that the MiL has shared her Christmases with for the past 6 years, and therefore to uninvite her is despicable, and is what has led others on this thread to call her names. Nasty ones, I accept, but no nastier than her attitude towards a little girl whose life has not been plain sailing recently.
Sounds like you have an amazing sonIL OP. His DF must be a very decent human being to balance him out if his DM normally behaves like this.
On the religious thing, a few people seem to take strange ideas about 'blood family' from it. My MIL doesn't count our DC as 'real grandchildren' because they were conceived through IVF and she says that is against god's law and the PIL havent even acknowledged DC2's arrival 7 weeks ago. No doubt she would be shocked if anyone suggested this behaviour was less than christian.
It sound like your DD2 is giving a lovely home to a little girl who needs her, and no doubt would have done exactly the same if she had half a dozen of her own children.
It does sound like SonIL's mother is a complete nightmare, I really dont know what she thought would happen when she said this. I hope you have a lovely christmas with your family and that DD1 and your SIL dont feel to stuck in the middle on this.
Quietly your bedside manner is just so charming...
Bloody hell, Lambzig! What awful people! I cannot believe how strange some people are.
Grandchildren are grandchildren in my book - whatever way they're aquired
Congratulations on the arrival of your second DC. You'll have a lovely Christmas, surrounded by the family that matters.
It's a bit of a moot point now, but can a legal guardian entrust the child they're responsible for to others anyway? I know people shove adopted, and until the adoption was final, the prospective adoptive parents couldn't use others to babysit. So the daughter would have to be with DD2 legally as well as morally on Christmas day.
Orchidee I know the only way I've ever been able to babysit my parents' foster kids is because I'm a childminder and we've done it all official like.
Sod the bloody lot of them I say. And you have a wonderful Christmas.
Goes without saying that your son in law is a sweetie, his Mother not so much.
Re: all the weirdos who object to IVF on religious grounds, what the frick was Jesus?
After all his mother, Mary, and his father God never had sex. . . So it was either a type of IVF or surrogacy?? Wasn't it?
There's a subject for Christmas dinner: was the birth of Jesus either a early form of IVF, or was it surrogacy?
That should rattle their cages
Smells Thats brilliant logic, and i never thought of it that way,
I suspect that the comeback would be IVF is only for special people like god.
Blimy there are some seriously nasty people in the world, what win te tread abouut a little b not getting a Chrstmas present from his nan because he is adopted. I would host your wn and leave tem out of it
Sadly it's a 'discussion' I've had before.
For the adoption deny-ears, if they're religious you can floor them by asking if they think they are better than St.Joseph?
After all if Jesus is the son of God, then old Joe (who in the bible actually wasn't all that old, not the bowed old geezer that is normally portrayed) was his ADOPTED father.
He accepted it, who are you to say adoption is wrong?
Good catholic education, give me an stance and I can prove/ disprove it
Always in my favour.
Wow Lambzig your PIL sound nuts. Ask them to show you where exactly in the Bible it says 'Tho shalt not conceive of a child in a petri-dish, nor shall thee then have an embryo transferred to thy wife's womb under ultra-sound guidance. Thus sayeth the Lord.' Bet they can't find anything.... idiots.
Ohhhh I like the 'was Jesus IVF/adopted/surrogacy argument, MIL would love that
It gets better and better- had a phone call from DD1 earlier to warn me that MIL has just been round to hers to collect hers and FIL's Christmas presents They didn't want to make a fuss so handed them over, although none dropped off for them and her DGCs in return, we know she has bought for them because she rung DD1 to confirm she'd got the right thing. So we think she may be doing the rounds. DD2 is still very upset by the whole thing, so I told her to come round to mine with her DD, we'll turn all the lights at the front of the house off and pretend we're not in if she knocks.
DD2's DD thinks it's quite exciting, 'like hiding from the aliens in Doctor Who'
So she has now cut off her "blood" relatives too?
She really doesnt care who she hurts in her tantrums does she?
Oh it gets better, So now she's collected her and her OHs presents so she accepts she's not going to see her son and his family on Xmas day, but she hasn't left any presents for the children or her son and dil! She is priceless, she's trying to make sure she gets to see them on Xmas day day as the kids will want their presents. She obviously doesn't believe her son won't see her on Xmas day. She is twisted.
Woman is a control freak, sheesh, hope Son in law gives her what for.
She has collected presents people have bought her or taken back ones she has given?
Has she always been like this??
Has she always been such a vile twat?!
Did she just turn up and state "I'm here for my presents." ????? She is sounding more and more ODD!
Arh SonIL sounds like my DP. he rocks.
Your family sound lovely, MIL sounds like mine and we have not spoken to her for nearly a decade.
Giv SIL a "you rock" from me
How bloody rude (to add to everything else).
Has the 'Alien' came knocking yet?
Im starting to wonder if she is having a minor break down because this is just plain nutty behaviour!
your DSil sounds like a good guy.
She's done what? I always thought that presents weren't yours until they were given to you - up to that point they are 'stuff people have bought'
Barking I tell ye, barking.
Come on - now you have to tell us what other barking things she has done in the past, it cannot, simply cannot have been plain sailing until now
This isn't just mean it is utterly bizarre. Who makes this much of a fuss over having an extra kid for Christmas?
People come and go here, we keep a stash of extra presents in the spare room in case we have unexpected extras for Christmas, it wouldn't even occur to me to exclude anyone let alone a child. Have many a time had people rock up for Christmas lunch or whatever with extra children or family friends, as we always cook enough for quite a large army it really isn't an issue.
It really is very odd behaviour. Very Odd.
Morloth I thought exactly the same. Most people are perfectly ready to accommodate an extra lonely person at Christmas. Even more so if a child.
It really is bizarre, isn't it? We did have a rather persistant knocker on the door, but I think our expert planning paid off and she thought we were out
We haven't asked for our money back for Christmas dinner- feel a bit bad as originally MIL was hosting for 11 and now she has a turkey of that size for two I do firmly believe she brought it on herself but I'm not about to demand the money back IYSWIM.
Judging by some of the things she's said on the phone to SonIL this evening, it seems that the issue may be she thinks DD2 is a 'precocious stuck up brat' and the whole excluding her DD thing may have been a ploy to get at her. Which makes the whole thing even more bizarre, because she's never even hinted at this before Struggling to know how to handle her now tbh
She sounds like quite a piece of work.
IME this prejudice against adopted children is more common than we'd like to think . But that's no excuse.
azarragye 'Struggling to know how to handle her now tbh '
Just don't handle her at all. She is a problem to be sure, but she isn't actually your problem.
How prejudice to exclude a child due to he or she not being a blood relation!!!
Imo i would part ways with them, i had to part ways with my mil for treated my dd differently than me & dhs dc together!
Lambzig - your PIL don't acknowledge their dgd because they weren't conceived by a good old fashioned rogering?!?
Tbh I think my parents would prefer it if dd and bump had been conceived by IVF. As they are now completely unable to pretend that their little girl has had sex!
(Luckily they don't know the exact details - we were trying but by our calculations dd was conceived during a "just for fun" time. In a jacuzzi.
Morloth - it's not that easy when your DD is stuck in the middle though is it
Aza - I wonder if your SIL will ask her to refund you your money? It seems like he would if he thought of it.
Yes it is. You can still support your DD, you can still be polite when absolutely necessary.
But I would no longer be seeking out this person, distant politeness when you have to see her and no more.
Just don't get into it with her.
She can sit there and stare at her giant turkey and stew.
Serves her right.
If SonIL asks her to refund the money I'm all for accepting it
DD2 is aware of the comments MIL is now making concerning her, something I am worried about given she's a bit all over the place at the moment, there are issues there which I haven't gone into on this thread. It just doesn't make any sense to me that she's suddenly turned on DD2 this evening
I'm ignoring her, but SonIL is still trying to reason with her.
What a nasty piece of work. Sounds like you have a wonderful family who are rallying around though. Your Xmas day should be lovely!
It seems that the issue may be she thinks DD2 is a 'precocious stuck up brat' and the whole excluding her DD thing may have been a ploy to get at her.
So she's using an innocent child to get at a woman who is already having a tough time, yet is obviously a much loved and decent person.
I would not be sharing airspace with anyone who spoke about my DD like that, let alone worrying about 'how to handle her'.
I think you're making a bloody good job of dealing with the situation so far & your DD1 clearly has excellent taste in men!
Such a sad escalation of events OP but you sound fantastic so I'm not surprised that your family would all rather come to yours!
I hope that you enjoy your Christmas - and the special birthday - and things blow over with the ILs
My god! I've just popped back to see if there were updates (last here on pg 3) and I'm actually gobsmacked at the manipulativeness and ruthlessness of the woman. What on earth does she hope to achieve?
Thank god she's just an IL and you need never see her again. Agree re money, in fairness no doubt it is all spent.
I doubt it's over though OP but please enjoy your christmas! Thank god those important to you see straight through the MIL.
I can't believe she is using a child to get at your DD2! So wrong.
Perhaps you should offer to swap a chicken for 2 for the huge turkey?
Your SIL sounds like a star.
Try to soften the blow for your SonIL and DD1 as much as possible. Be as easy going and loving as you can and don't say a word about how awful she is being to them.
They know, and try to stop DD2 hearing about as much of it as possible. Nothing to be gained by letting this woman get to her.
People who play games deserve whatever they get and what she is going to get is a very lonely Christmas (and a lot of turkey).
Hi OP, this sounds like a horrible situation that the MIL has created.
It's such a shame esp at this time of year.
Is there any chance that you could just invite them, MIL and FIL, over on Xmas day to yours instead?
I'm sure that sounds completely mad, but it would be such a shame for you all, and ESP you SIL, who I'm in love with by the way for being such a good man, if the MIL still manages to ruin it for you. You sound lovely, and I'm sure you'll find yourself thinking about her and wondering if they're ok?
The MIL sounds like a mad stressy so and so, but her DH will end up missing out on seeing his son and grandchildren.
I know she hasn't done anything to deserve this, but just imagine how much fun you could have
watching her squirm knowing that you showed her who the grown up is.
Also, you already have plans for Christmas Eve, so I don't think you should have to change those. It's an important event, ESP if DD2's DD is having her first birthday with you all and not her birth mother. Going out for a meal and a show sounds like such a lot of fun and at 7 I'm sure would become a fond memory for her.
Please don't think I'm siding with the MIL. I think she's a sad lady. You and your family, including your SIL and DD2's DD, sound like lovely warm kind hearted caring people. Whatever you decide, don't let mrs Scrooge ruin your day by making you feel like you have wronged her. She sounds like a drama queen having a massive strop.
Hope you have a lovely lovely Christmas at yours and that your DD2 is feeling a bit more like her usual self soon.
I don't think inviting this horrible old bat over is a good thing to do: she's tantrumming and performing already so if she's invited over she'll spend the day making digs at the DD2 and the little girl so everyone else will have their Xmas spoilt.
I must admit I have found this thread a bit distressing - sorry, don't want to hijack - but are there really that many people who are so horrible about adoption? I was adopted as a baby and I remember some bigotry and bullshit in my childhood but that was decades ago, is it still happening?
I wouldn't invite her, but if she asked it would be very fucking satisfying to say 'of course, all are welcome at Christmas'.
She sounds like a horrible cow. I feel sorry for this poor little girl. YANBU. She is BVU.
Solid gold, I hadn't thought of her having digs at DD2 and her DD. I was hoping she'd just come along and sit quietly realising the error of her ways. For what it's worth, I'm also horrified at the way she has found t so easy to exclude a young child. I think there are people who can be very black and white about 'mine' and 'not mine', but I'm sure that must be only a few people of a certain age.
I think that's what I meant Morloth, but what if she did keep on picking on them all.
I hadn't thought of that. Sorry OP, for my naive suggestion.
Then you ask her to leave. I don't 'put up' with people in my house.
Merry Christmas Aza - you truly embody the Christmas Spirit in my books.
Your family is blessed and lucky to have you.
Oh and obviously I'm in love with your SonIL too.
So MIL you only acknowledge grandchildren that were convinced with some good old fashioned headboard-banging-hair-pulling-wild-monkey-sex that your boy and I do?
I must admit I have found this thread a bit distressing - sorry, don't want to hijack - but are there really that many people who are so horrible about adoption? I was adopted as a baby and I remember some bigotry and bullshit in my childhood but that was decades ago, is it still happening?
Not among civilised people.
Why has she turned on your daughter? What has made her turn so vile?! It all sounds very odd. Is she losing her marbles?! Your poor girl x
Just catching up, but have to say I am loving the 'Jesus was adopted/ivf/surrogacy' idea - would save that one for the dinner table at the in-laws, but unlikely we will ever be invited there again.
OP, I hate the term 'stuck up' (not sure how she can be precocious if she is an adult) as its usually used by someone to cover their own social inadequacies. It sounds like MIL has realised she is in a hole of her own making and is working hard to keep digging. Almost beginning to feel sorry for her (only almost).
I am gobsmacked that she might have used a child to get back at an adult...both of whom sound as though they have been through a huge amount and need a loving family environment just now.
Who does that????
I'm horrified by how many of you have experienced this prejudice again adoption and adopted children - and IVF???
Lambzig - would your MIL rather have had no grandchildren?
I really am genuinely shocked. I know several people who have adopted children and who are adopted themselves, and this is not something that I have ever been aware of, thankfully.
Dont understand how Lambs MIL, cant accept the children, they afterall are still a part of her child, dont get the difference.
If there is a God, i'd like to think that he gave mankind the tools like, IVF.
And the more i think about it, IVF, is a lot more realistic and less far fetched than Jesus conception, it just happened, yeah sure.
Just dropping in to say Merry Christmas Azza. Hope you have a lovely day out with your grandaughter for her birthday and a fab day tomorrow.
Has she suffered some sort of episode? I mean it's just not normal behaviour is it? It's like she's become wildly disinhibited - vile comments, turning up demanding her presents. Has she had a stroke?
Chub I have to admit this has crossed my mind as her behaviour has escalated. I guess only sonIL really knows if this has come 'from nowhere' or has been an escalation of some long-held dislike of the dd2. If it really has come out of the blue I would actually be a little bit concerned. It can be one of the symptoms of dementia too iirc.
Ohhhh gosh I hadn't thought of stroke/dementia What to do??!! Will mention to SonIL and see what he thinks. MIL has apparently never been overly keen on DD2 ( she doesn't have a 'proper' job, I won't say what she does but it's perfectly fine as a career, not eyebrow raising, just not
what traditional MIL counts as 'proper' IYSWIM. Though this has never been said in front of DD2 or me before, this is what DD1 has told me now in light of recent events.
On the plus side DD2's DD is having a lovely birthday so far Still rather worried about her mum but trying not to think about that and just enjoy today and tomorrow, then we'll deal with all that!
Happy birthday azarragye's dgd xx
Hope you all have a fab day xx
Coming down on the other side of the argument here but I think you're the one BU. MIL doesn't know the girl DD2's looking after, she's not related to her and she's not currently part of the ILs family either. Her DH is ill and she's being a saint and still agreeing to host xmas, maybe she doesn't want non-family in the house in case of her DH getting ill- his immune system's probably down as it is. You said that MIL suggested the girl could go to your DD2's dad's for xmas- well why can't you do that? Of your DD2 really is serious about looking after her long term then she needs to get to know that side of the family too, that way everyone gets a good xmas and poor MIL and FIL aren't left alone with xmas dinner for however many.
Do you think DD2 would have been so keen to look after her friend's girl if she could have her own DCs? I think that's the point MIL's trying to make.
Bloody hell. I can have my own children and I'd be honoured to take legal care of a friends DC hence why I take god parent duties very seriously.
I think most people would say the same as the care system in this country has a bad reputation!!
Lastminute that is a horrible thing to say about dd2. Jeez.
Last minute, you know nothing of the OP's DD2 to make the frankly shitty assumption that she would not have been keen to be her DD's legal guardian had she been able to have her own kids. Do you think that is the only motivation someone has for stepping in to take care of a child in need? And the MIL here had the option to let the OP have everyone for Xmas to take the weight off if it was too much for her.
Clearly she was not being a saint but a martyr, lastminutepanic. Even if the food had been bought, Christmas dinner could easily have been relocated to the OP's house.
Oh, and "non-family" are no more likely to have infectious diseases than family.
And it is not for the OP's DD1's MIL, let alone you, to judge the OP's DD2's motives for taking in a young child in need. I think it would actually be harder for a single and childless person to take on a 7yo than it would be for someone who already had a family, but that's by the by.
Lastminute - the dd2's dd has barely met dd2's dad, so spending christmas with them would be like spending christmas with strangers. Tbh, it sounds like she has had a pretty difficult time of things recently, so sending her away to spend christmas with strangers would be pretty horrible, wouldn't it?
Last Minute. What a horrible thing to say. perhaps you should pop round to the mother in law's for Christmas. it sounds like you have a lot in common.
wtf, she can't exclude a child like that and phoning so last minute too - awful. hope you sort something out
Someone offered to host Christmas Day in her place but she said no. She's being a martyr rather than a saint.
Oh OP, I didn't mean to worry you. I think if there's history there then she's probably fine (although evil natch). I was probably overthinking it, it doesn't look like its truly come out of nowhere, does it?
I hope you're all having a lovely day.
Hi again OP, just wanted to say I hope you and your whole family (especially the birthday girl!) are having a fun day together. You sound like a lovely bunch.
lastminute - what a horrible post. You should apologise for that. I don't expect you will though.
Oh my god another vile... oh no, I won't say it, got deleted last time.
Nope...tried really hard to understand what you are saying there last minute....
It's still a load of heartless bollocks however way you cut it.
(I have a feeling you have not read the thread very carefully either because your interpretation does not fit with the facts)
lastminute-blimey you sound like you are the mil.
Family can be family, blood related or not!
I am soooo glad I don't think like you lastminute you sound just as nasty as the mil...
God there are so many vile vile people out there.
Last minute if family had to be blood related my DD would have no blood relations on her dads side, or family from my DM's DP's side.
Family is what you make it, not what nature says it should be.
Are you sure there are definitely no grounds for DD2 being called a drama queen over the issues this year OP? Just trying to work out where MIL may be coming from.
I can't think of any reason why a 'good' person would take it out on someone's child, just because they thought that person was a 'drama queen'. Tbh, the MIL can't have any reason that Are rational or acceptable reasons for excluding the little girl. Who does that? ESP at this time of year?
Also, DD2sounds like she's been through a lot. She was told she couldn't have children then her partner decided that she wasn't good enough. It's no wonder that she's been finding things tough. Instead of supporting her through what must already be a difficult one, her ex has basically blamed her for something she can't help. She is bound to be feeling tears and emotional and maybe her confidence has been shot to pieces too. Also I bet the MIL is the sort of person who also thinks it's a failing if a woman can't reproduce!
I am full of admiration for DD2 for actually taking on the responsibility of her friends DD. I was a mess when my ex cheated on me, ESP as he'd made me feel like I was going mad. I couldn't function so DD2 is amazing for giving the little girl a home where she is clearly loved. This sounds like a very selfless thing to do.
I imagine DD2 is the sort of person who would have taken this little girl in even if she had children of her own. If DD2 is anything like her amazing Mum, then she obviously has a lot to offer.
OP, I hope you all had a lovely day out today. Merry Christmas to you all for tomorrow and I hope you all have a lovely lovely stress free Christmas Day.
Take care, xxx
Hope you've all had a wonderful time today, and that DD2's DD was thoroughly spoilt
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.