To feel completely suffocated?

(125 Posts)
alisunshine29 Thu 20-Dec-12 21:22:42

My baby is almost 7 months, DD1 is 5 and OH works away. DD2 is EBF and attached to me literally about 23 hours a day, maybe more. I can't have a shower without her crying the entire time, everything else I do one handed. She'll go in her Jumperoo for 5 mins at best, she'll play with toys but only with me right there. I thought it'd get better once she could sit unaided, but it hasn't. She cries with anyone but me. I am desperate to spend some time with DD1/OH but it's impossible. If OH is home, I still do everything for the kids as otherwise DD2 screams the house down making DD1 feel guilty for spending time with me. Once DD1 is in bed, DD2 will only sleep on me so OH and I feel nervous to talk/have TV too loud in case we wake her. It's ridiculous. We long to be able to cuddle/have sex but the longest DD2 will go down for before realising I'm not there is 10 mins. I co-slept with DD1 and loved it but DD2 wants to feed literally all night, I cannot move without her stirring and latching on again. In the day she'll only sleep on me or if walking in carrier/pushchair - the second I stop she wakes. I just want to be able to have time with DD1/OH, have a bath, read, just have a wee bit of time away from DD2 without her being utterly miserable. AIBU?

peaceandlovebunny Thu 20-Dec-12 21:28:38

she's tiny. its her defence method against being left behind when the hunter gatherers move on. she'll grow out of it. but even when your dh is away, you need someone to take her for 20 minutes while you have a shower or bath and get some self-time.

this is the most glorious time of your life. you'll miss it when its gone. you'll never regret meeting her needs. when you see her with her own babies, doing all she can, you'll know what a good job you did.

who can give you that tiny break that you need every day?

alisunshine29 Thu 20-Dec-12 21:43:20

I know she's only tiny, and I know I probably don't sound like it but I do adore her. I just miss DD1/OH and feel like things can't go on the way they are for much longer without my relationships with them being damaged - I've barely had a cuddle with DD1 in weeks sad I have no family or friends.

amirah85 Thu 20-Dec-12 21:48:31

Can u leave her with OH when he's home and go out for an hour with your DD1?I'm all for attachment parenting,but your other one needs u too,and to spend hurried time with her 'cos the baby's vrying is not the best,so maybe go out for a bit.anything that could be making her worst at the mo?teething?

alisunshine29 Thu 20-Dec-12 21:54:32

She's teething but not upset about it - not when with me anyway. She has been this way since birth. Luckily DD1 doesn't resent her but if I took DD1 out DD2 would be upset the entire time which DD1 knows so we'd both feel guilty.

NoisyDay Thu 20-Dec-12 22:16:05

I am sorry-but screw that.its totally ridiculous to have your life dictated by a 7mo.you will get everyone on here telling you to co-sleep,baby wear etc.all this is well and good if you are happy with it,but you aren't.neither is your dh nor probably your dd.there is more to life than breastfeeding,you have done it for 7months now,time to start expressing, give three good spoon feeds/baby led weaning meals a day.fill her up during the day,no need for a 7mo to feed all night. Get you DH to do the bottles for the first while until she grts used to it,and she will probably resist loudly,but it can be done.you have done a FANTASTIC job getting his far but it's time to save your sanity,get some Sleep and spend more time as a family.

MoleyMick Thu 20-Dec-12 22:22:53

I'm with NoisyDay on this one! For things to change, you have to be the one to change them. Not a hugely popular view on here sometimes though.

karron Thu 20-Dec-12 22:25:58

I can relate 6 month ebf started weaning but she gets so angry when not the centre of my attention. If DS is sat reading with me she sits on her mat angry shouting at me. DS very good about it but does get jealous. No advice but just hang on on there are YANBU. She's started crying so better go, just wonder how much time dd will spend in our bed tonight? May try and sleep in her cot

alisunshine29 Thu 20-Dec-12 22:43:39

NoisyDay - I do enjoy breastfeeding and would enjoy co-sleeping if I got just a couple of hours to myself first. Expressing isn't an option as she won't take a bottle/cup of milk at all and isn't interested in solids yet either. OH is very rarely here so couldn't leave him to it even if I wanted to, don't agree with controlled crying but even if I tried that it'd mean DD1 getting no sleep too. I want things to change, really I do, I just don't see how I can. I honestly thought by this age it'd be different but at this rate I can see myself with her sprawled across my lap at night when she's 2!

peaceandlovebunny Thu 20-Dec-12 22:46:29

so where did you get the idea that motherhood would be any different than it is? your dd2 seems perfectly normal to me. was dd1 different?

FunnysFuckingFreezing Thu 20-Dec-12 22:49:10

I hated the tiny baby months with DS2 so you have my every sympathy. If you won't leave her to it for a few minutes at a time then really you have to ride it out. I was too selfish as far as DS1 and DH were concerned to ignore them for the sake of DS2

alisunshine29 Thu 20-Dec-12 22:54:47

I haven't suggested she's abnormal. It's different second time round - OH can understand and get over being neglected, it isn't fair to expect my 5 year old to do the same.

clam Thu 20-Dec-12 22:54:54

"so where did you get the idea that motherhood would be any different than it is?"
Erm, perhaps from those of us for whom it is different? My kids weren't like it; they fussed a normal amount, I suppose, and I cuddled them a lot, but also left them to cry when I had to get on with other things. They've grown up into happy, healthy, independent and affectionate teens.
This situation sounds extreme. And untenable, actually. It sounds as though you've done a great job so far, but it's not unreasonable to want/need a break. It won't harm her to be left to cry for a bit - but it might harm you (and indirectly her) if you don't get that break.

clam Thu 20-Dec-12 22:57:41

<<what's happened to my space bar?>> confused

NoisyDay Thu 20-Dec-12 23:04:23

Of course she isn't interested in solids,she is full up from all the milk!there is no reason why you can't reduce milk intake and replace with solids during the day. my ds2 was Like this also refused bottle/cup.but my ds1 was being neglected and I was exhausted.really if you want this to change you dh will have to take some time off work and help get a new routine established. It isn't fair on your dd1 having this go on.unfortunately if you want it to change you will have to make her less reliant on the breast,maybe still give her one feed at night and one in morning then have your dh settle her,while perhaps go for a walk/drive with dd1.a few late nights for dd1 may just be necessary for long term benefit. Doing this won't make you any less of a mother,it will make you a mother who cares about the needs of both her daughters and is doing everything she can to have both them be happy.

steppemum Thu 20-Dec-12 23:07:04

I am with noisyday. It is OK to have some time to yourself. You can look at it this way, your dh needs to bond with her too, so when he is there, take yourself and dd1 out. Go anywhere. If she cries, dh can hold her, comfort her. She is not on her own, she may cry the whole time, but she will be fine.

Start weaning her, and cut out some feeds, don't breastfeed totally on demand, sometimes offer food/water etc. She may take a while, but she does not need to feed all night long. She doesn't want to take a bottle or wean because she is getting bf all the time, but persevere.

I Bf all mine til 1 year, but I didn't feel bad about some boundaries once they got to this age.

Personally I would work on getting her to sleep somewhere that isn't on you either.

I know you say you are worried about dd1 waking etc, but in my experience, to make a change it does take a day or two of disruption in order to change and it is worth it

SrirachaGirl Thu 20-Dec-12 23:21:44

What NoisyDay said.

helenlynn Thu 20-Dec-12 23:27:57

OP, YANBU, and I'm amazed and impressed that you've stuck it out this far. It looks like peaceandlovebunny can hack this kind of thing and even enjoy it and that's pretty impressive too, but (with plenty of respect to peace) that's something she and others can manage not just because of the effort they put in, but also because of the kind of people they are. Not everyone can manage it; there's no way I could've. If you're only as far as "suffocated" rather than a few miles past "gibbering", I take my hat off to you!

For me it wasn't a question of whether I agreed with controlled crying, it was a question of whether we were going to do that and have a shot at coping, or not do it and not cope. Generally I endorse whatever tactics families adopt to keep everyone well, warm, loved and this side of crazy, however much they depart from the Sunday supplement ideal. Anyway, I hope DD2 grows into being able to deal with being a bit more separate from you soon.

Totally agree with Noisy Day too

Can your DH take some time off work, even a week or two, to help sort things a bit?

steppemum Thu 20-Dec-12 23:53:38

and no, parenting isn't always like this

I have 3 dcs and they were totally demand breast fed they slept in a moses basket next to my bed for 6 months. When they woke I fed them and put them back. By this age 2 of them were sleeping through with no feed between 10 and 7 am. The third fed every 5 minutes until 7 months. Then I got tired of feeding her every 5 minutes, so one night I didn't feed her, I held her and shushed her and let her cry. I put her down and stayed there with my hand on her and let her cry, with me right there. Once she stopped she fell asleep and slept til morning. Next night it took less time, third night she slept through til morning and hasn't looked back.

It really doesn't have to be so hard. You have done an amazing job, but it is OK to make changes. You need to think of dd1. And as I said before, let you dh do some bonding with her, why is it so important that she has YOU, rather than one of her parents? Dh is just as important to her.

DumSpiroSperHoHoHo Fri 21-Dec-12 01:35:47

I'm also with Noisy - you've done a brilliant job of getting this far without cracking up! but not only are you unhappy, your DD1 is suffering to a degree as a result of the situation which isn't good for anyone and could affect her relationship with both you and her sister in the long term if not addressed.

Just one thought though, do you use a dummy at all? It sounds like your DD2 is sucking for comfort/to get her to sleep - perhaps trying one might make it easier in the short term.

butterflyexperience Fri 21-Dec-12 07:10:26

7 months old is not a tiny baby.
Your dd2 should like a little bit of independent play I think.
I do sympathise with you though my dd1 was similar however she also was crawling at this stage and would play a little.
Do you take dd2 to any playgroups? May get used to a little independent play?
Does she like tv? Pop on a cartoon whilst you shower go to the loo.
She will grow out of it but its just a matter if when!

bigbuttons Fri 21-Dec-12 07:17:39

She is not tiny and the whole situation is terrible for you and the others in your family. Your Dh needs some time with you as does your eldest child. She doesn't not need to feed in the night nor all during the day. It is now not just about what your baby wants/needs/ but the other too .sad

Gumby Fri 21-Dec-12 07:19:23

Your poorr dd1
How old is she ?

bigbuttons Fri 21-Dec-12 07:20:04

does not <shudders at double negative>

redwallday Fri 21-Dec-12 07:24:51

I was in your exact situation but with a 2.5 year old older sibling. It's really really tough but just know I think you have done a wonderful job and the really hard part should now be behind you. She should start to settle a bit better in the next few weeks. One thing that made a big difference to us was giving up having her in our bed and putting her down in her cot. In bed with me she was like your DD. I used to have to sleep with her in the crook of my arm with my boob hanging out. We never cried it out. I just spent lots of time in her room resettling her in the rocking chair but soon enough she started to sleep longer because she wasn't getting disturbed. She's 17 months now and still a very light sleeper but I promise things will get better xx

helloeverything Fri 21-Dec-12 07:30:06

Hi, I just wanted to add some words of support.
I think that this needs tackling, but slowly. I would start by trying to space feeds, if she cries, soothe her and offer food and water like others are saying.
You might find she starts to eat solids.
After set feeds are established it might be a good idea to get used to being held by DH, so he can spend important time with her, and DD1 gets some of your attention. Maybe start of by leaving the house for 5 mins (so you get used to it as much as her).
I think leaving her to cry by herself is not what I'd be willing to do personally, but certainly don't feel guilty about taking your shower.

primigravida Fri 21-Dec-12 07:31:39

It's about everyone's needs in a family and they all need to be balanced. My dd was a bit like this at seven months. Co-sleeping stopped working for us at this age as both of mine were wrigglers. I used controlled crying to shift them to a cot which led them sleeping 10-12 hours at night. Once both of my children stopped having night feeds they were both happier during the day (so was I) and ate solids better too. Another thing that helped is taking both kids for walks and focusing on the older one and having a good chat while baby napped in the carrier or pushchair. My whole family was much happier once we were all getting enough sleep at night and I wasn't breastfeeding constantly.

yellowsubmarine53 Fri 21-Dec-12 07:32:17

My dd was like this too and it's utterly physically and emotionally draining if you're the only one she wants.

Though I do agree that you need to make some changes, accept that dd2 might find the change difficult but that she'll fundamentally be okay.

First up, speak with your dh re leaving dd2 with him for a couple of hours one weekend. It's likely that he's not feeling very confident about it but work out how he'll can do it ie take out in buggy if she really won't stop crying.

What you do at night is up to you. You've got plenty of advice on here already. Other peoples' stories of 'oh I just patted her and she fell asleep' aren't necessarily that useful (I think I posted the same about dd until ds arrived.....) though worth getting a number of perspectives to help you decide an action plan.

Good luck!

Bless you, DD was a high needs baby (to steal a Dr Sears phrase!) and pretty much as you describe. She didn't really settle being put down until she was able to crawl. She would scream until she vomited and then that was an extra job to do.

Have you looked at the Dr Sears stuff? It is all in 'huggy speak' but if you can cut through the sanctamony (sp and is that a word?) there is some good advice on his site. We also found the no cry sleep solution really helped too.

It is easy to say let them cry and stop letting the baby control you but unless you have a truely relentless child it is hard to understand. For DD's first year I don't think I got more than 3 hours sleep a night, I don't know how you are doing it with 2 children.

One thing I do agree with is when your DH is there he needs to step up. Yes your DD will be upset to begin with but it is ok for her to cry when being comforted by her Dad, she'll get used to him.

Leaningtoweroflisa Fri 21-Dec-12 08:12:03

Hi op, ds was like this but I've been v glad he is pfb!

He got easier when he started crawling (8-9 months), he stopped needing to be on me constantly and started amusing himself independently (aka getting in trouble).

He was and is a hard weaner and a boob monster. He didn't take to solids til well into 10th month and bottle refused until the week before I went back to work [hmmm] so I can appreciate how frustrating it is to get advice like has worked for some pp's like stop her feeding and fill her up on solids - nope, not happening til I'm ready mum and stop pushing it if you value your sanity, I'll do it when I'm ready.

We put ds in his own cot and did gradual retreat with him over 2 weeks of hell naps were hardest to get him settling in his cot for. There's a great thread in sleep 'what worked for us, op called nectarina.

There's also a v helpful thread in sleep for mums of high needs babies like your dd, please check it out!

Sorry can't link from phone, hth and you're doing great.

Flowerface Fri 21-Dec-12 08:25:43

Oh gawd, this is my DS too. In terms of the night-feeding, anyway - he is reasonably happy to play by himself for a bit during the day so I do get some time with DD, but he is still EBF and refusing any food at nearly 8 months!! Maybe I need to get tough too!

NoisyDay Fri 21-Dec-12 09:03:10

Hi again,just wanted to say that I didn't mean to let baby cry,I can't do that either,find it heartbreaking.but you can absolutely cut the day feeds,up the solids and pass some of the settling over to you dh.i didn't mean to imply it will be easy,it probably won't,but the long term benefits should
Outweigh the negatives.best of luck

valiumredhead Fri 21-Dec-12 10:07:27

I agree with noisy

5dcsandallthelittlesantahats Fri 21-Dec-12 10:22:38

You could be describing my dd5 who is now 10 months.After the first 4 I was patting myself on the back they were easy babies who slept well from 6:30-6:30 by 8 months. Then dd came along and my world was turned upside down grin.
She was at 8 months constantly near me, feeding a lot, crying if put down and would not sleep in her cot at all.
I started getting her to sleep next to me on the bed at 6:30 (easy took 5 mins she loves a hug!) then before she was too deeply asleep transferring her to the cot. At first she would wake every ten minutes so it was hard (luckily browsing mumsnet on my phone while she drifted off didnt disturb her!) but gradually the time she stayed in her cot got longer and now she will sleeo from 6:30-9ish which at least gives me a little tine alone with the older children and dh.
For some reason she wakes up at 9 totally wide awake as though its morning but she does go off again around 10. Some nights she starts in her cot at ten others we co sleep all night but neither dh or I mind that at this point.
Her feeds I just stopped offering one at a time and offering yogurts or beakers of water instead. She still has 2/3 feeds a day 2 smaller ones and one big one at 6:30 but its a huge improvment on what ir was. I would stay take things slowly but do start some sort of "management " of it as you sound at the end of your tether.

SarahWarahWoo Fri 21-Dec-12 10:31:35

What noisyday said and you have to try to sort out sleeping away from you

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea Fri 21-Dec-12 10:40:35

Yes, what noisy said.

Get a really good friend to baby sit for an hour - either leave the house or ask friend to take DD2 out in a pram / car for a bit. You need some space! I am in awe that you haven't cracked up already.

If possible you need someone who understands and can cope with the fact that DD2 will possibly cry for the whole time you are away, but 7 months is not "tiny" in the same way as a newborn is, unfortunately she needs to start fitting into the rest of the family before you all go mad.

Good luck.

SugarplumMary Fri 21-Dec-12 11:10:12

My eldest was like this - I only coped as she was my eldest.

YANBU.

alisunshine29 Mon 24-Dec-12 15:53:58

Thanks for your replies. Have left her with DH once and he took her out in carrier til she slept which doesn't really solve the problem as can't expect DH to walk the streets for hours any time I need to do anything without baby. DD1 and I go walking the dog with DD2 asleep in carrier so we at least get time to talk. DD2 is only latched on at night - not feeding, just using me as a dummy. She is hungry when she wakes but still not really interested in solids. Don't really like the idea of dummies and not sure if she'd take one for first time at 7 months as someone suggested? Could just start a new problem if she wakes everytime it falls out! For those saying just leave her with DH and let her get used to him, she likes him and will happily play with him if I'm there too but DD1 wouldn't spend time with me like she wants to (i.e reading/painting/baking) if her sister was crying with DH, she says she'll wait as she can't concentrate with DD2 screaming. She isn't resentful at all, it is totally my own guilt at not being able to do things with her. We still paint and bake, just one-handed with DD2 in tow! DH cannot take time off work to help. He has no idea I feel so drained, he thinks we are lucky that DD2 has only really had 2 sleepless nights in 7 months. I agree that we're lucky she's only been up 2 screaming all night, but he doesn't even stir when she's unsettled.

hermioneweasley Mon 24-Dec-12 15:56:36

We had a Velcro baby, but she was happy to be held by me as well as DW (as long as milk wasn't what she was after). Your DH is jus going to have to spend more time with her until she's attached to him and he can pick up some of the Velcro duties.

Ephiny Mon 24-Dec-12 16:06:13

The 'she's tiny' stuff would be more appropriate if the baby was 7 days old, not 7 months. Many mums would be back at work by now, so it can't possibly be normal for a child that age not to be able to be separated from them for more than 10 mins.

alisunshine29 Mon 24-Dec-12 16:10:18

On rare occasions that she has been held by DH without crying, rather than making the most of it and spending time with her he follows DD1 and I and then of course DD2 holds arms out to me...

I will be going back to work 2 days per week in Feb which is why I really need a solution.

ModernToss Mon 24-Dec-12 16:11:17

You do seem to be finding reasons not to implement the suggested solutions though.

There's a lot of good advice here.

strumpetpumpkin Mon 24-Dec-12 16:16:10

i would consider starting her on a bottle at least part time so she can start associating other people with nice comforting stuff.

Ephiny Mon 24-Dec-12 16:16:55

It sounds like your husband could be more helpful/supportive. I'm not saying he's undermining you on purpose, but maybe through thoughtlessness. Maybe you need to sit down and have a chat about what needs to change and how you're going to tackle it - together. I think you need to be working as a team, it shouldn't be just your problem.

If you refuse to introduce a dummy you will be a human dummy for the forseeable.

Something has to change. It might be worse in the short term, but if its ever to get better you need to make a change.

This isnt normal at all.

alisunshine29 Mon 24-Dec-12 16:25:15

She won't take a bottle.

Ephiny - the only reason he sees it as a problem is because sex is rushed...! It was his work Christmas night out last week, he said 'I wish we could just go out and get drunk and go dancing' - I told him that he can, it's only me who can't. DD2 hasn't changed his life at all. Literally the only break I get from her is if I'm driving, my arm and back are killing me from carrying her.

alisunshine29 Mon 24-Dec-12 16:27:04

I don't like dummies but would introduce one for night time if it meant she slept on her own - I just didn't think a baby this old would be receptive to one?

ImperialBlether Mon 24-Dec-12 16:29:50

What is the worst thing that can happen if you stop breastfeeding her now? I know you don't want to, but I don't think that strongwilled little girl of yours will let you do it part time. It will take a day or two for her to change her habit. That's all. When you think of it like that, it's really worth doing.

As for the controlled crying, I did it - night 1 he cried solidly for an hour, then fell asleep, exhausted. Night 2 he screamed for 20 minutes - almost levitating - then fell asleep. Night 3, he went to bed laughing. And this was a baby who was super glued to me. It helped, I think, that my daughter was in the room with him. She'd been warned what would happen and she told me he'd get fed up of yelling eventually. She had a lamp on and looked at her books while he hovered three inches above his bed, bellowing. My health visitor told me I'd be ill if I didn't sort out his sleep - she was right.

Its worth a shot though. And I mean a proper try. I know its hard when shes crying, but at that age I would be more inclined to try to not give in. The behaviour needs broken somehow.

Liking dummies or not is pretty irrelevant. Are you willing to go insane because you dont like dummies?

anastaisia Mon 24-Dec-12 16:33:48

Your dd1 sounds wonderful - so considerate of her little sister!

Agree with Ephiny though, your DH needs to do a bit better. DD2 isn't going to get used to settling with him if she doesn't get a chance to. Why can't he walk the streets with her a few times to give you and DD1 an hour or so together? Not hundreds of times, but a couple of times to give DD1 some time without a baby crying while you do something with her? He probably isn't doing the following you so DD2 holds out her arms to you on purpose but if he keeps doing it accidentally then maybe it is best he leaves the house with DD2 or you go somewhere with DD1 while DD2 does learn that he can comfort her the way you can.

anastaisia Mon 24-Dec-12 16:36:51

I wouldn't stop breastfeeding in the hope of having a less attached baby though - especially not with a OH who works away. Having breastfeeding as one tool along with others for settling dd (and dealing with her when she was ill!) was so important to me as a single parent. But that's just my experience not saying you shouldn't consider it!

alisunshine29 Mon 24-Dec-12 16:45:16

I'm not going to stop breastfeeding, but even if I did want to - she will not take a bottle! So from peoples experience, would a 7 month old be likely to take to a dummy? I'm really not going to leave her to cry at night, as much as I appreciate it may have worked for you and your advice is well-intended, it just isn't something I'm prepared to do. DD1 didn't sleep through the night til she was 3.5 years old and not once did I leave her to cry, so I certainly am not going to do so at 7 months. I just hoped DD2 might be easier!

susanann Mon 24-Dec-12 16:45:24

sounds like an awful situation. I sympathise. But I think you must tell your OH how stressed etc you are. It must be hard enough that youre virtually a lone parent, let alone to have a clingy baby. My kids were on solids at that age. I think maybe you should wean DD , it may not be easy but persist. How on earth are you going to go back to work in Feb if you dont get this sorted? Good Luck

NoobytheWaspSlayer Mon 24-Dec-12 16:48:10

I have one of those. DD has been a velcro baby since birth, and it is just unbelievably suffocating and exhausting. I also got so completely fucking worn out of hearing well meaning but ultimately useless advice. 'Just put her on a bottle'... well duh -don't you think I have tried? Or the implication that because I wasn't enjoying literally having my baby on me 24 hours a day, that somehow that made me a crap mum.

I loved her, but I resented her - I just needed 10 minutes to have a shower, or a shit, or just BREATHE on my own without carrying her or hearing her scream. I needed space from her to be able to miss her!

I just want to let you know that it does, slowly, get better. DD started eating little bits of food, and I started leaving her with her Dad for regular periods so I could spend time with my boys. She gradually took to him, and would sit with him, I just couldn't be in the house at the time! Now she is one things are much better. She goes down at 7, and wakes about 10 when I go in with her. She goes to her Dad and Grandparents and is much happier overall.

Just remember you do need to make time for yourself even if she does yell. Your DH needs to pull his finger out too, and you need to communicate to him exactly how hard things are for you at night - its not his fault he doesn't know what goes on when he's asleep - you need to let him know how hard it is.

When DH would come home, or early in the morning he would take her and I would go out for a 15 minute walk alone. It was sanity saving.

Good luck!

susanann Mon 24-Dec-12 16:51:17

Why do you keep asking if she will take a dummy? Get one and try it! I think you hit the nail on the head in your post when you said your eldest didnt sleep through till she was 3.5 and you never left her to cry. Sorry if this sounds nasty, but youve got to break this cycle. Your child is controlling you. Sometimes you have to use "tough love". She will soon learn that you wont come running every time, just as shes learnt that she only has to scream to get your undivided attention. Try a dummy, it may work. Hope you get this sorted

BinksToEnlightenment Mon 24-Dec-12 16:55:27

Oh I really feel for you. My son was like this. It was equally beautiful and torturous.

He finally took a dummy at I think seven months or something like that. Before that he would fire it across the room. It was a lifesaver. Some babies need the comfort of constant sucking rather than milk. I know you may not be too keen on the idea, but it's not good for you to be so stressed. And a dummy doesn't have to be forever. Just that transition when they learn to be without physical contact all the time.

Also, have you tried a sling or baby wrap? I found that if I put him in the sling pressed to my chest, it was easier to get him to take the dummy. Then at least you have your hands free and you can go for a walk round the shops.

This will pass. I know it's so so so exhausting and emotionally draining. But it will pass and you will have a little toddler running around and playing happily by themselves.

Amothersruin Mon 24-Dec-12 16:58:42

Why bother posting when you dont want to take anyone's advice? A 7 month baby wont take a bottle-your not trying hard enough. Stop offering the boob every 2 minutes and she will soon take one.

Sorry if I sound harsh but in case you havent heard there really are NO medals for being a mummy martyr...

BinksToEnlightenment Mon 24-Dec-12 17:01:45

I think as well that a lot of people don't understand what it's like to have a baby like this. My son did not cry when he was put down - he screamed like he was being murdered.

Listening to that was worse than anything.

NoobytheWaspSlayer Mon 24-Dec-12 17:03:27

That is just not true Amothersruin - some babies just DON'T take bottles. DS1 & DS2 both did but DD just won't. I hardly lack parenting experience, or experience in getting a baby to take a bottle, but she just won't.

Each baby is unique, so there is no blanket 'do this and this will happen'.

Amothersruin Mon 24-Dec-12 17:05:58

If they are hungry enough they will take a bottle. Remove the mother from the baby so they cant smell milk and baby will start to take bottle. Even if it didnt then at 7 months can be on solids but I think op doesnt want to hear that....

NoobytheWaspSlayer Mon 24-Dec-12 17:07:17

That is just RUBBISH! DD went a whole day and half a night when I had to go away and wouldn't take a drop of EBM or formula.

MummytoKatie Mon 24-Dec-12 17:07:34

I had this a bit with dd although nowhere near as bad. Total angel baby until 6 months so I always dealt with her at night because dh had to work the next day and it was pretty easy. Then at 6 / 7 months she started teething and stopped sleeping. And because dh had never dealt with her in the night she found him completely unacceptable. So I carried on doing it all. One day I calmly and master of factly told dh that if dd seemed to be screaming even more than usual in the night (he'd long moved into the spare room) he'd have to get up and deal with herbecause I'd be at the bottom of the stairs with a broken neck.

He slowly started helping then but truthfully it nearly destroyed my 10 year marriage.

One book I found was called something like "the complete baby sleep solution". Unlike Gina Ford, the Baby Whisperer and all the rest of them she doesn't say "you must do x, y, z and do it exactly and if you change their nappy at 10:02 rather than 10:00 then it will all fall apart" she gives a load of solutions and says you do whichever work for you and you want to do. There was no perfect solution but it slowly got better.

Actually at 7 months I wouldn't bother with a bottle, try a sippy cup. OP if this really is driving you nuts you have to be strong and take some control of the situation . Easier said than done when you are exhausted.

MummytoKatie Mon 24-Dec-12 17:08:40

One thingI didn't say is that dd was my only child and nowhere near as bad and I spent my days thinking of ways of hurting myself. I have no idea how you are doing so well!

Amothersruin Mon 24-Dec-12 17:09:10

Sorry but I still diagree with you Nooby but then I am of the firm belief that so-called "velcro" babies are made and not born....

MagicHouse Mon 24-Dec-12 17:09:59

MY DD was like this, and my DS similar too. Have you ruled out medical problems? My DD had acid reflux and was feeding non stop to stop the pain of it - medication sorted her out. It will get better. Keep doing the odd hour at a time away. Also - you do what you're happy with. I had all sorts of people telling me to leave her to cry. Maybe it would have helped. I just couldn't do it. It was hard having her clinging to me all day long, but I don't regret that. She's 6 now. And gorgeous. And pretty independent!

NoobytheWaspSlayer Mon 24-Dec-12 17:10:09

Exhaustion inertia - just being too damn worn out to be able to think about, let alone put into practise and new ideas that will involve getting any less sleep/rest than you are already.

alisunshine29 Mon 24-Dec-12 17:10:33

DD hadn't had milk for 6 hours at 3 months and still wouldn't take a bottle - it isn't through not being hungry, she just refuses them. So Amothersruin, I would take some advice if there was any better offered than screw your baby, leave her to scream. I do have a sling which she loves, am just wary of trying a dummy in case that falls out and has to keep being replaced in night - feel likes it's replacing one bad habit with another.

NoobytheWaspSlayer Mon 24-Dec-12 17:13:03

Explain then how I had 2 non-velcro babies, followed by one? If anything DD should have been the most independent of them all.

Are you are basically saying there is no such thing as a high needs baby? That all babies that need a higher level of attachment are created and not born?

alisunshine29 Mon 24-Dec-12 17:13:37

She won't take a cup either so far.

Actually OP lots of people have offered lots of advice that doesn't involve leaving your DD to scream, you clearly aren't interested. If all you want is a pity party then say so but you did ask for advice.

Amothersruin Mon 24-Dec-12 17:16:12

I can only tell you my experience Nooby-I had 2 great babies-both excellent sleepers. Then I had dc3. Now by other peoples standards he was an ok sleeper but in comparison to the other 2 he was a monkey. I firmly believe this is because I was too tired/lazy to implement the kind of routines I had with the other 2. So yes I did "create" the problem.

Anyhoo we are getting side tracked from op-are you listening to any of the advice people are giving op?...

alisunshine29 Mon 24-Dec-12 17:17:09

Amothersruin - perhaps you were 'fortunate' enough to have children who didn't care where you were or who was caring for them, but I'd take my velcro baby over that option any day. My 5 yr old is the most independent child I know so if I have to ride the velcro stage with DD2 that's fine, itr's just more difficult when it's a subsequent child.

alisunshine29 Mon 24-Dec-12 17:19:27

So what other advice is there, other than leave her to scream? Spell it out, please. Give her a bottle - she won't take one. Leave her with DH - he's hardly ever here. What is it I'm ignoring?

Viviennemary Mon 24-Dec-12 17:23:41

I'm afraid I just wouldn't be able to stand this family set up. My DD was a very difficult baby and cried a lot. Some nights I lost count of the number of times she woke up. But I still did leave her with people for a couple of hours. Otherwise I would have got completely mad. I agree with the people who say you won't get a medal for all this she'll only settle for me. Of course there are high needs babies but martyrs are just not helping themselves.

PetiteRaleuse Mon 24-Dec-12 17:28:27

What other advice? Masses of it on this thread OP, though you don't like it. I ould be a gibbering wreck in your position.. Dd2 is 2 months and only wakes once during the night and although I recognise I am lucky I still feel sleep deprived and wonder how the hell I would cope in your position.

One thing I would do is perhaps take a step back, listen to advice and start trying even the things I thought I never would, because there is no sodding way someone can live life like you are doing and not crack at some point or have a negative effect on the other people in your family that you have responsibilty towards.

NoobytheWaspSlayer Mon 24-Dec-12 17:31:40

Honestly? I would put her down in her cot and leave her to scream for 10 minutes after she's had her morning feed. Then the next day I'd leave her for 11 minutes, then 12 etc etc. It is the only way I got my DD to settle without me - eventually she went to sleep without me.

alisunshine29 Mon 24-Dec-12 17:31:53

It's all well and good saying you still left them with people - I do not have anyone to leave her with. So no I won't get a medal for her only settling for me, but not everyone has lots of people around to help.

Ok so you won't leave her cry, can't leave her with anyone, DP is no help, you won't try a dummy or a bottle etc etc etc
SO WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? She is clearly making you miserable...or is she and do you actually quite enjoy the whole martyr bit?

alisunshine29 Mon 24-Dec-12 17:34:57

I think me doing things one-handed with DD1 with a happy DD2 in tow is better than leaving DD2 to cry while I do things with DD1. DD1 agrees, luckily - it is me that misses alone time with her.

Right so actually you are quite happy to carry on as you are ....righto....shame it took 81 posts to get to that point

alisunshine29 Mon 24-Dec-12 17:37:32

I have no one to leave her with, she will not take a bottle, I won't leave her to cry. I may try a dummy. She doesn't make me miserable, I just miss my time with DH and DD1 that's all.

So why start a thread asking for advice when you clearly are willing to continue exactly as you are?

alisunshine29 Mon 24-Dec-12 17:39:10

I'd rather ride it out than leave her to cry, yes. So if that's the only advice I could try then I'd rather not, thanks all the same.

Viviennemary Mon 24-Dec-12 17:39:20

Well you'll just have to wait until she grows out of this phase then. She will eventually.

It wasn't the only advice offered.....

alisunshine29 Mon 24-Dec-12 17:40:29

Because I thought there may be better advice than to leave her to cry, apparently there is not.

<bangs head against wall>

alisunshine29 Mon 24-Dec-12 17:41:42

It is the only doable advice offered, seeing as she won't take a bottle and I have no-one else to help out.

Viviennemary Mon 24-Dec-12 17:49:48

What about a baby whisperer. (Scraping bottom of barrel)

Amothersruin Mon 24-Dec-12 17:54:17

I am a sahm op so I am of course my dcs main care giver. Like yours my dh also works very long hours and we have no family help so I dont know where you got the idea that I dont care about my dcshmm

If you enjoy your velcro baby so much then why bother posting?....

Oh FFS. First you felt suffocated and now its alright because you dont want to change anything.

4 pages to get to that!

Quite wannabe....quite grin

Amothersruin Mon 24-Dec-12 18:05:08

Wind up?...

susanann Mon 24-Dec-12 18:06:06

cant help some people can you........?

Nah amothers just another member of the martyr mummy brigade looking down disdainfully at us scummers

SayMama Mon 24-Dec-12 19:44:04

Amothersruin - perhaps you were 'fortunate' enough to have children who didn't care where you were or who was caring for them, but I'd take my velcro baby over that option any day

what a fucking horrible thing to say

StinkyWicket Mon 24-Dec-12 19:56:36

You sound a bit like me OP. I have almost 4 year old twins and a 14 month old. The twins were so much easier than my singleton, mainly because I had no choice - if I was by myself and one of them needed me, then tough, one of them had to wait. They were weaned at 5 months and bottled from about 4.

The singleton though, still loves to BF and gets incredibly jealous at anyone else trying to monopolise my attention! He too would never take a bottle (any type - would gag) and wasn't interested in proper food till about 7-8 months.

My only advice would be to just hand her over to your OH and take your other daughter out every so often. Maybe an hour to the park or something, not long. Go out though so if she does cry you can't hear her. Try out different sippy cups as well - DS3 still won't have formula, but he will have water out of a cup.

You are not making her cry, you are letting her cry - there is a difference! And trust me, some alone time will make not a jot of difference to her once she's older, but it will to you and your older child. And OH probably!

yellowsubmarine53 Mon 24-Dec-12 19:58:12

Seriously, OP, other than using a dummy, getting someone else to look after her for an hour or two and stopping feeding her at night, what on earth did you think people would suggest?

I second the advice about getting her checked for silent reflux btw.

thebody Mon 24-Dec-12 20:08:18

Oh op. it's a complete fog when you are in this situation.

BUT.. You are in charge of your life and family not your 7 month old...

She's NOT a tiny baby,,, that's Crap!

Decide what you need as In YOU and your DH and remembering to factor in DD1.

If you need to bottle feed then do it!
If you need to controlling cry then do it!

You are NOT at the mercy if this little minx unless you choose to be.

They are programmed to be self self self to survive!! But you need to get a balance here..

Seize control ....

Amothersruin Mon 24-Dec-12 22:17:51

I ignored the nasty comment made to me by op as i think she is really struggling.sadly she does not seem to want to help....

ImperialBlether Mon 24-Dec-12 23:05:16

OP, my son cried for 1 hour 40 minutes and then slept every single night/session without complaint. I did it out of love for him, not because I didn't care for him.

You seem to be complaining but not wanting a solution. You seem to believe every solution involves not caring for your child.

You are clearly unhappy with the situation as it is but unwilling to listen to any advice.

Good luck.

Narnia34 Mon 24-Dec-12 23:24:56

OP, just out of interest, what are you planning to do with DC2 when you return to work? As I'm assuming that you won't be able to have her attached to you there.

If you will be putting her into some kind of childcare, how are you planning to get milk into her, if she refuses a bottle? How will she sleep, if you're not there? Do you expect any childcare you choose to carry your DD about with them in case she squeaks, or are you going to be reasonable about it?

You don't listen to advice, so I'll ask you for your explanations instead smile

Fakebook Mon 24-Dec-12 23:32:33

What a waste of time. What's the bloody point of asking for advice and then wittering on about dummies and refusing to stop breastfeeding.

Stop letting the baby use you as a lolly pop. That's where you've gone wrong. When she was a newborn, you should have got into a habit of breaking the latch once you knew she wasnt gulping down milk anymore. Instead you've got her into a habit of drinking and then snoozing on the boob unable to let go.

I don't know if this will work at 7 months, but you can still try it, once she's had her milk feed, and you know she's stopped and is sucking for pleasure, break her latch and push her jaw upwards with your index finger horizontal across her jaw. Hold down for about 30 secs to a minute until her sucking reflex stops. Do this after every feed and see if it makes a difference. It did with DS at 5 months, but then he found his thumb, which has been a life saver.

You also need to start solids now. She should be having 3 small meals a day by now.

okaynowitstheseason Mon 24-Dec-12 23:43:15

You've made your bed OP.

okaynowitstheseason Mon 24-Dec-12 23:44:22

She hasn't actually done it, though, and the child is asleep, will get his presents in the morning, and all will be fine.
She finally relented, but to even make the threat to the child was bad enough.

okaynowitstheseason Mon 24-Dec-12 23:44:48

Ignore, wrong thread.

OP if you're going back to work in February, then you really do need to start doing something to change the situation.

You asked people to spell things out for you so let me explain controlled crying a bit more because it does not mean letting your child cry all night. When we resorted to CC, after two years of DS not sleeping properly, the longest he ever cried was 12 minutes, and that was once.

We went in to see him at 2 minutes, then 4 minutes, then 8 minutes... then it would have been 16 but he never got there. After three nights he was sleeping all night for the first time ever.

Do you really think it would be so impossible to go 8 minutes? Do you really think it would bother your DD for life?

You need to think long term instead of short term. Yes, it is not nice to leave her to cry even for one minute BUT you need to do what is best for her, not simply what she wants at that minute. She will be a much happier baby if she gets a proper sleep all night, and when you go back to work she will need to be okay with other people.

You may think what you are doing now is best but you are doing her no favours by not doing anything about the fact she will only take nutrition from the breast -- not if you are going back to work soon. I suggest starting a new thread in Feeding for advice on weaning a high needs baby -- it's not good enough to say 'she won't do it', you need to keep trying.

Ephiny Wed 26-Dec-12 09:41:23

I agree, and the thing that jumps out at me is that if you're going back to work soon, and she can't be left without crying, then you don't have a choice over whether you 'leave her to cry' or not. The only choice is whether you start doing it now, when you can do it in a controlled and gradual way, or leave it until you suddenly disappear off to work for a full day.

I also wonder what you wanted from this thread. If you don't want to change things and are happy to just ride it out...what was the point of the thread, other than to feel superior and make nasty comments about other people's parenting? But in your title and earlier posts you talk about feeling suffocated, desperate, worried that your relationships with your husband and other child are suffering...which doesn't sound like you think everything is fine.

DontmindifIdo Wed 26-Dec-12 09:42:50

OP - what's your childcare planned for Feburary? If it's nursery, can you afford to pay for a couple of mornings a week now? give them bottles of expressed milk (it could be she refuses as she can smell milk on you and eventually yo'ull give in and let her breast feed, if there's no option, you might find she'll take expressed or formula from someone else). Best to do it now.

She might not be reseptive to a dummy now, but you could try. What's the worst that could happen? You've wasted a couple of quid ? Grand scheme of things, worth a go.

re co-sleeping/controlled crying, something needs to be done there too, you won't be able to do your job when you return to work. And it's not fair on DD2 to not teach her to sleep, she needs her sleep too! You need to teach her.

DontmindifIdo Wed 26-Dec-12 09:48:07

BTW - co-sleeping with a non-sleeping DC, and long term breastfeeding, aren't really options for working parents without making your DC suffer and you being in no fit state to do your job well. I've seen it from both sides, a friend childminding a little girl who cried from mummy leaving until mummy returning because she was used to feeding on demand for comfort, not just food (best that habit is broken before you have to leave for full days, mornings now would be enough time to start getting her used to not having to feed all the time/have mummy there all the time) - and a colleague who quite frankly did a crap job for the first 12 months after returning to work because she was always too tired to think straight and we all had to pick up the slack from her mistakes.

anastaisia Wed 26-Dec-12 22:26:07

I think that you can probably get plenty of advice from people who have done more stereotypical 'attachment parenting' with a baby that's very attached and haven't gone for controlled crying options. But you probably need to post a new post in a different section of mumsnet saying that you specifically want that rather than AIBU.

Are you happy for DD2 to be comforted by other people if it isn't distressing DD1 too much for her to enjoy the time you get from it? I still think from your other posts that the first step needs to be your husband learning to comfort her without you/her learning to accept comfort from him. I wouldn't want to go for anything that wasn't gentle and involved a baby being left alone to cry (controlled crying or crying it out) rather than with someone else there to soothe them, or stopping breastfeeding on cue when I was with them, so I completely understand why you might be rejecting options like that. I might go for something like short periods with an attentive child carer though if a partner wasn't there enough to get her used to having her needs met by others, would be happy with it being paid for childcare if I was confident that they would respond to her the way I wanted (and was paying them to).

Findingmyself Sat 29-Dec-12 14:42:06

PeaceandLoveBunny wins the award for the most ridiculous post ever on MN.

The OP isn't "meeting her needs", she's being a martyr, and raising a spoilt, pampered child.

bigbuttons Sat 29-Dec-12 14:53:11

Lord, I just re read that first reply by peaceandlovebunny. i wanted to be sick my mouth. What a load of sentimental bollocks.

Findingmyself Sat 29-Dec-12 15:40:29

Me too bigbuttons

It's no wonder that there are so many spoilt, entitled children ruling the roost in their homes if parents have the attitude that Peaceandlovebunny has.

Ephiny Sat 29-Dec-12 15:49:47

Also, what about the needs of the other daughter. Maybe Peaceandlovebunny's philosophy is OK for an only child, but in this case there's another child whose relationship with her mum risks being damaged (OP's own words) unless this situation is sorted out.

bigbuttons Sat 29-Dec-12 19:42:55

Nah, the op changed her mind if you remember. No one is being affected by anything.

What kind of childcare do you intend to use when you return to work? Perhaps you could approach nursery/child minder/relative (whoever your work child care will be) and start her now doing an hour or two on a very regular basis.

It sounds like a phased introduction to wherever and whoever she will be cared for will benefit her, and in the time she is doing her long phased settling in you will be able to have a shower in peace/ have some quality time with your DD1.

sleepdodger Sat 29-Dec-12 20:29:59

Hi only 1 ds, but if you look at sleep you'll see I'm a frequent poster in there...
I had a dc with a very similar temperament and one night I was literally on my knees, was having nosebleeds etc and went to rest in spare room rather than our room so not to disturb dh who had to work next day
Dc was screaming, I'd fed him (also ebf) chaned him and cuddled him, so knew nothing was wrong
I lay down in spare room at 330am... And woke at 630an with dh over me looking puzzled as to where dc was... In him cot.
It seems in my shattered state I'd fallen asleep soundly, he'd dropped off and actually slept till 7am
That was the first time hed done a 3.5hr stretch!!! It taught me he didn't need feeding in same way Nd have me confidene to percivere next night... And so that actually became the 1 'gauranteed' stretch I'd get I'm no expert, currently in sleep hell

waterrat Sat 29-Dec-12 20:31:59

OP, if you haven't already read it, the book No Cry Sleep Solution is explicitly designed to help co =sleeping breastfeeding mothers. The author co sleeps and feeds all night - and she very gently talks you through ways to stop the baby disturbing you in the night and encourage them off the breast.

It is okay to want to sleep. It is okay to stop your baby chewing on your boob all night - in the NCSS she describes how to co sleep while moving the baby away from you and your breast.

I actually thiknk you are right about the dummy - it's just a new bad habit - you can feed, then pull her off just before she settles, shut her mouth and close it then move further away from her in bed.

I was doing the co-sleep/ feed thing - and I have slept so, so much better since putting DS in his own cot. Why not put her in a cot, sleep next to her and resettle with a feed when she wakes - perhaps she will get used to the cot - and you can gradually replace some feeds with patting/ shhhing.....

You dont have to actually leave a baby to cry to stop them feeding so much at night.....have a look at the Dr Sears website and read NCSS.

But I agree with a lot of the posters - you can tackle this, it's okay to want to - and you can find a way of meeting your childs needs while being happier yourself.

yousmell Sat 29-Dec-12 21:21:16

can you send DH out with baby in pram?

yousmell Sat 29-Dec-12 21:41:33

Also take her in the bath with you. Have your feet very very hot and your top end warm. Read in the bath. Spend an hour in there twice a day if you need the break.

Just remember it's a phase and will end. I never used dummies or bottles either.

I co-slept and BF mine and they were all very different in how much they needed me during the day/night. My most demanding baby has turned into a wonderful 4 year old who is asleep in bed at 6.45pm each night and wakes at 7am these days. He is also the brightest, most sensitive and most imaginative of my children - new friends often take a little while to fully 'get' him - after a while they find him great fun. The other two lovely boys are calm and warm, being more instantly likable with new people.

yousmell Sat 29-Dec-12 21:43:14

also can you help your baby find it's thumb?

yousmell Sat 29-Dec-12 21:45:22

My second boy was a high needs baby because he was born that way. Same rearing but looks totally different to the other two. Different genes

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