to be unsure about giving DD the other 2 immunisations

(48 Posts)
Lia87 Thu 13-Dec-12 12:11:28

my DD had her first lot of immunisations 3 weeks ago. before that she hadn't been ill. Since having them, she's been projectile vomiting most days rather than about once a week before, had a cough+cold since a few days after, been waking up screaming, not feeding as well and crying a lot more. It seems like its weakened her immune system if anything.

I took her to the doctors about the cough and she said to just keep an eye that her breathing didnt start to be raspy, and that side effects from the injections "usually" only last 48 hours.

i'm just concerned that it's actually doing more harm than good, after reading the immunisations booklet, one of the things hadn't even had a case in the uk for about 20 years, and so seems like it's just putting things in her system for the sake of it to still be doing it now.

i definitely don't want her having them yet, especially as she's still under the weather, but i'm not sure about them at all really. My DM has also been saying about links between autism and learning difficulties increasing since they've become standard procedure. I'm sure that's just a fluke but it just seems another risk. I'm really not convinced the benefit outweighs the side effects at the moment.

AIBU?

Jingleflobba Thu 13-Dec-12 12:16:26

Whooping cough is currently doing the rounds in certain parts of the country I think, there have certainly been a couple of threads on here about it.
The reason the diseases in the immunisations have decreased though is because of the immunisation programme.
You really should let her have the whole set, once she's well enough of course, the nurse won't do it if she's under the weather still.

mycatlikestwiglets Thu 13-Dec-12 12:16:56

There is no link between immunisations and autism - the study which claimed there was has been disproved and I'm pretty sure the author was struck off the medical register.

The reason that there are now so few cases of diseases which are part of the immunisation programme is that immunisation has effectively made them obsolete. If people stop getting immunised, they will return - look at whooping cough and think about whether you want to expose your DD to that sort of risk.

If you're really concerned that immunisations caused your DD's illness, speak to your GP but read up on the facts first. It's far more likely that your DD has picked up one or more of the many winter bugs doing the rounds atm.

CwtchesAndCuddles Thu 13-Dec-12 12:34:54

A friend of mine didn't give her children the second MMR - right now both her children have measles. She is worried sick about them and feels guilty that this could have been prevented.

Sirzy Thu 13-Dec-12 12:39:04

It's winter, a child to have be ill for a few weeks over winter isn't unusual.

In the vast majority of cases the dangers of not immunising outweigh the dangers of immunising.

JolieColombe Thu 13-Dec-12 12:51:22

I though that one of the reasons for the supposed rise in autism is that diagnoses are now more successful, it is spotted earlier etc. Also, iirc, Aspergers being incorporated into the autism numbers caused an increase too, without there actually being an increase, iyswim.

But with regards to your DD, you need to think about whether it's worth taking that kind of risk should she be exposed to these diseases later in life. Some of them can have horrendous side-effects, especially (as you have a little girl) if she should get them when pregnant (thinking German Measles here which can cause birth defects in a developing foetus). Remember, they might not be prevalent in the UK (now), but when she grows up she could travel anywhere!

And don't forget, if she has been really poorly, you can always ask the practise nurse or HV, whoever's doing the immunisations, to postpone for a week or two.

Lia87 Thu 13-Dec-12 12:54:58

would it be reasonable to postpone them until say 2-3 years old? it just seems like a lot to give a small baby.

Jingleflobba Thu 13-Dec-12 12:58:21

I would look at post poning the next set till the new year. Don't forget at 13 months she will have the MMR and the follow up jab at 3 (I think.)
It s a lot and it's not nice putting them through it but it has a longer term advantage that I don't think you are considering.

MissCellania Thu 13-Dec-12 13:04:05

It's a coincidence. give the vaccinations, otherwise she may get a lot more ill.

What hasn't had a case in the UK for 20 years?

snowtunesgirl Thu 13-Dec-12 13:05:25

I would say that immunisations are time tabled for a reason and there is no good reason to delay. Also remember that the older your DD gets, the more mobile she will be and will also come into contact with more and more people. Therefore, the likelihood of her coming into contact with these diseases increases during this time period.

MMR is done at a year old and the booster is given at 15 months. My DD has just had her first MMR.

Jingleflobba Thu 13-Dec-12 13:14:22
NumericalMum Thu 13-Dec-12 13:18:49

Please give your child the immunisations. If you can find a child in the UK who hasn't had a winter cold whether or not they also had immunisations at the same time I would be amazed.

Sirzy Thu 13-Dec-12 13:18:59

The problem with delaying them is if she gets something so young if can be much more dangerous.

To an older child whooping cough is (normally) just very annoying and uncomfortable. To a young baby it can kill.

Sallyingforth Thu 13-Dec-12 13:32:12

Even if it was related to the jab, there is no guarantee that it will happen again. The body will have built up some resistance from the first time.

bigbadbarry Thu 13-Dec-12 13:35:38

Everybody here has had vomiting or nasty cough/cold; most have had both. Is just that time of year (and it does seem to be quite bad this year). Coinciding with jabs is a pure coincidence. We've had a letter home from school about measles doing the rounds: I wouldn't risk it.

Lonecatwithkitten Thu 13-Dec-12 14:08:00

I am pro-vaccination. I would suggest you find out about the diseases that the vaccinations cover.
Just because something hasn't been seen in the UK doesn't mean that it can't come back.
My DD was the first baby to develop a particular condition in 25years (not covered by vaccinations). She nearly died as the first GP didn't recognise the symptoms as it didn't exist here any more. Fortunately the second GP came from a different part of the world where health care is not as good so recognised it. Luckily the consultant surgeon had seen this problem though none of the other hospital doctors had and knew exactly what to do to save her life.

MrsTerrysChocolateOrange Thu 13-Dec-12 14:13:29

When the MMR nonsense came out, cases of all the diseases started rising. Because people weren't vaccinating. Doctors saw cases of mumps regularly for the first time in years. Mumps, which can make people sterile.

I wouldn't force anyone to vaccinate but please find out about the real risks of the diseases you are talking about... death, hearing loss, LDs, a host of other possible risks.

Actually the rise in mumps cases was nothing to do with the MMR-autism fears.

MR was given in place of MMR for a while because the brand of MMR that was being used was causing meningitis Mumps also seems to have a bit of an issue with waning immunity.

Lia - you can take your time in making your decision. There's a vaccination topic on mumsnet - it's a bit bunfighty at times, but there is a similar recent thread on there at the moment.

some more about the mumps outbreak although they don't mention the replacement of MMR with MR after the urabe strain problems. But anyway, does make the point it's not to do with reduced uptake of MMR.

I took ds3 to have his MMR the other day, he's having it late at 20 months.

Turns out he hasn't had the third hib injection. I was in hospital when it was due and completely forgot.

He had that instead and was fine in himself but couldn't walk as the injections were given in his legs. If he'd had them when he should it wouldn't have been a problem as he wouldn't have been mobile. He was very upset so I wouldn't leave them until 2 years.

Lots of childhood illnesses are on the rise, how would you feel if your dd caught whooping cough because she hadn't been immunised? I felt terrible that ds hadn't had his final hib and I'd put him at risk.

I think you might be being a little U. As others have said, it's better all round to get them done when smaller. While some of the projectile vomiting may have been linked, the cough/cold probably wasn't.

Small child here had a week of high temperature and general un-wellness after whatever vaccination they give at the six month mark, but hasn't had issues with any of the other ones (including the booster from the six month one) since.

Definitely get DD immunised as soon as she's perked up a little again, it's a very short period of discomfort for an awful lot of benefit.

GreenPetals Thu 13-Dec-12 16:05:18

Lia whatever you are deciding please don't do so because of frightening stories of X cild who nearly died of whatever (from either sides).
Read about the side effects of vacs, read about their efficiency. Make up your own mind wo listening to people on MN etc...
Because whatever you do, you (and your child) will have to live with the consequence of it.

Some people will tell you this would be the worst thing to do for their child, others that they know about X who has had so many issue of whatever illness.

These aren't proof of anything, just examples and as such do not have any meaning at all (as whether vacs are dangerous or not, Ok to delay or not etc...).

If you have a doubt, then instruct yourself on the subject, learn and decide for yourself.

GreenPetals Thu 13-Dec-12 16:07:00

Oh and I am getting really annoyed at all these links abut outbreaks of mumps or measles. The OP isn't talking about the MMR but about immunisations done with much younger children.

Very different issue both because of the age of the child and because of the type of illnesses.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Thu 13-Dec-12 16:13:39

I think it would be reasonable of you to delay until your dd is well again, and then to have the injections given at intervals so that they are not all r IDE at the same time.

noblegiraffe Thu 13-Dec-12 16:17:08

I teach in a school and at the moment loads of kids are off sick. It's that time of year, unfortunately, and probably nothing to do with the vaccinations.

nickelbabylyinginamanger Thu 13-Dec-12 16:18:42

I'm sure your baby will be fine.

a small number of children will get poorly following injections, but unless there are serious side effects, then there is no reason to stop the course of immunisation

your doctor is properly trained in this, you know - if you'd had dangerous side effects, they would advise you on it (or you'd be in A&E by now)

it is normal - you are, after all, putting small amounts of a disease into your baby's system.
the baby learns to fight it, and then if the real disease presents itself, the baby will be better equipped to stop it killing them.

you are putting your baby (and the herd) at risk if you do not continue the vaccination programme.
There are a good many children (and adults) who are seriously ill, (and babies who are younger than vaccination age) and not immunising your child when they have no underlying medical is putting their lives at risk.

imagine your baby getting a disease that you've chosen not to vaccinate for, and coming into contact with someone who is recovering from cancer. their immune system is compromised by the cancer, and your baby could kill that person, or at least cause them to become seriously ill.

nickelbabylyinginamanger Thu 13-Dec-12 16:19:50

your next lot won't be for about 6 weeks, anyway.

DD hated her first lot, and cried for 5 hours or so.
the second lot, she cried while the injection hurt and for about 20 mins, then was fine.

MrsLyman Thu 13-Dec-12 16:20:33

It's more likely that being in the Drs waiting room caused the cold than the vaccinations, there are a lot if bugs around at the moment. With DS1 I found he reacted less to the jabs with each round, by the third set he barely had any reaction at all.

hatebeak Thu 13-Dec-12 16:20:42

The day before DD was due to have her first MMR injection, she had a febrile convulsion. It was the first time it had happened, and apart from a bit of a runny nose, she hadn't really been that obviously unwell.
If it had happened 36 hours later, what would I have thought? I'd probably have thought the injection had caused it.
Sometimes, things are just coincidence. It's Winter, there's a lot of nasty stuff flying about - babies and children get ill. Speak to your GP again if you're really worried, they should be able to reassure you.

MrsHoarder Thu 13-Dec-12 16:21:12

Wait until your DD is not ill. But for comparison, my DS hadn't been ill at all until 6 weeks ago and since then we've had 3 colds and a vomiting bug. We've been to the GP with a persistant cough and missed baby groups every other week. Except his first jabs were in July, its just that now we're in the winter illness season.

And don't the early baby jabs include Whooping Cough? Even if you had the pregnancy booster, the effect that has on your DD will be wearing off by now. That's one big reason IMO to not wait a few years.

nickelbabylyinginamanger Thu 13-Dec-12 16:23:54

this is the official NHS page on vaccinations

please read the information in it. smile

GreenPetals Thu 13-Dec-12 16:26:47

Please also read all the other information available about vacs, not just NHS ones.

That is if you want to get a more balanced pov.

NHS isn't always right! and very certainly, NHS general rules do not always apply to specific individuals.

Allonsy Thu 13-Dec-12 16:37:55

I have always agreed there is no autism risk with the MMR despite the case that ds1 become noticbly different following his and now has sensory issues and possible other asd/adhd related problems, even despite this im told others that the MMR is very important etc now that ds2 is here and due his vaccination why am i terrified of him getting it and keep putting it off sad

hatebeak Thu 13-Dec-12 16:41:11

If you are going to "research" the issue, however, it's worth remembering that there is an awful lot of unscientific, unhelpful information out there on this matter.

SlightlySoupStainedBabygrows Thu 13-Dec-12 16:58:04

My partner and I have been arguing discussing immunisations for months, since I was first pregnant.

After 8 weeks, DC1 changed in a number of ways - started crying more frequently, posseted more, suddenly (and unnervingly) started going several days between poos where he'd always been very regular before, and so on.

We had not given the first immunisations. Had we, my partner would have blamed all those things on the jabs. As it was, he got his first jab at 10 weeks, wailed a bit that night, and was fine and smiley by the next day. Every time I see a news story about the latest little baby to die of whooping cough, I am thankful that my partner finally agreed to us giving him the jabs.

Babies change so much and so quickly - if I was looking for changes expecting to find something bad as a result of the immunisations, I'd find something that had changed that I would worry about. Especially during the winter lurgy season!

Lia - there are quite a few of us on here who either haven't vaccinated or who have vaccinated to a different schedule. If you want to PM me feel free.

aamia Thu 13-Dec-12 18:34:58

Vaccination is one of the modern wonders of medicine. It is one of the reasons why most children survive to adulthood. Those who choose not to, put both their children and the herd immunity at risk.

lljkk Thu 13-Dec-12 18:52:36

If she had that strong an immune response then she's probably acquired immunity to everything. And most importantly, she won't react that strongly again. So I'd take her along for the other jabs feeling quite relaxed that she'd already had the strong immune response needed, so extra jabs just a precaution.

but I might choose to postpone if she was otherwise ill on the day (more than just a runny nose).

Letsmakecookies Thu 13-Dec-12 19:16:04

YABU if your decision is based on your mum. And google is not your friend, there are so many nutjobs out there prentending they know what they are talking about when it comes to health and science, but who have their own agendas.

Go and talk it through with your HV, GP or someone else with some medical training before you decide not to immunise your child.

The NHS doesn't make decisions on vaccination programmes, that is done by the Department of Health and they don't make decisions on their own willy nilly it is done with advise from experts (e.g. from academia who's work is peer reviewed, from the Health Protection Agency) and from the World Health Organisation.

I would strongly advise immunising your child. The risks involved if your child gets the disease are A LOT greater than the side effects from the vaccine.
The reason that these diseases are essentially wiped out of the UK is the immunisation that we have in this country.
No vaccination has any link with autism. No vaccination will cause your child to have autism, it will already have been there. And besides, as im sure parents with SEN children will tell you, there is nothing wrong with having a SEN child, it's not worse, its different. Also, measles is a lot more risky than autism and learning difficulties, even if there was a risk.
At the end of the day, if you don't immunise your child, you are putting other children at risk. If you don't give your child the Hib (for example), contracts Hib and then your child comes into contact with a newborn, that is potentially putting that newborn at a massive risk.
There are some parents who believe that children gaining a 'natural immunity' to these things is beneficial, but the things they vaccinate against are things they have to have before any immunity is created naturally, again putting their child at risk. Would you deliberately give your child measles so they could be immune to it, knowing it can cause problems like hydroencephaly???
Obviously I can't force you to immunise, and your local nurses won't give to a child they think might have a problem (I don't think they give to children with flu) but its definitely something worth giving massive consideration to.

Take your time, do the research. Do not do it because you feel pressured into doing so.
My son has not been vaccinated, but if he had, I certainly wouldn't have taken him if he was poorly.

pointysettia Thu 13-Dec-12 20:29:43

The incidence of winter vomiting virus is about 70% worse this year than last, so not at all implausible your baby picked it up in the waiting room. It's winter cold season too.

I'd make sure your baby was well before giving the next vaccination, your practice will agree with this anyway, but deferring until age 2 or 3? Not a good idea, especially with whooping cough on the rise.

fenix Thu 13-Dec-12 21:56:51

Watch this video: Chain of Protection. You sound like you have limited understanding of how immunisation works, and it is a nice explanation that shows the benefits of vaccination, both to your daughter and greater society.

shoofly Thu 13-Dec-12 22:08:32

At the moment the Public Health Agency has announced a Measles outbreak in Belfast, and Northern Ireland is a region with very high take up rates for vaccination. Your Gp or practice nurse will not vaccinate a child who is ill but I think you should seriously consider having your child vaccinated when they are feeling better.

Mia4 Fri 14-Dec-12 11:14:22

Talk to the doctors, a lot of immunizations shouldn't be given while a person is ill or has just been because their immune system is weaker.

As fro autism, actually people are just better off at diagnosing. Years before they'd just be 'naughty', 'crazy', 'eccentic' or 'sick'. But she's your child, you and your husband should have a serious talk about this but avoid scaremongering on either side. I had an idiot relative who was insanely pro-life and anti-vaccination and used to post about ectopic pregnancy being a 'decided abortion' and that the 'mother wouldn't die if she was good enough', about vaccinations being made from dead and stolen babies, or a method of population control in which we are all having our 'expiry dates' set.

Mia4 Fri 14-Dec-12 11:15:36

Sorry just seem it was your mum, not your husband, well none of her business anyway tbh.

Mia4 Fri 14-Dec-12 11:17:32

Oh and if you went to docs or a hospital for vaccinations, there probably was a hell of a lot of bugs going around Despite advice, so many people go there when having the norovirus, or back to work/school too early-thank you very much workmate that gave me that last week

sashh Fri 14-Dec-12 11:48:15

Have you noticed that in the last three weeks the weather has changed quite a lot?

People are putting the heating on and staying in.

Norovirus is going around.

Don't you think some of these ^ could have something to do with dd being ill?

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