To feel sorry for the Australian DJs?

(922 Posts)
andapartridgeinaRowantree Sat 08-Dec-12 00:38:49

Obviously more sorry for the nurse's family. I wonder how long she was having suicidal thoughts for? I can't think this could have been the only cause,

But these pranks have been going on for such a long time and those DJs could not have predicted such a result and are going to have to live with it for the rest of their lives.

It's such a tragedy and I feel very sad for all concerned.

seeker Sat 08-Dec-12 00:41:43

I agree. But I suspect others might not agree.

NannyEggn0gg Sat 08-Dec-12 00:44:55

Nope. I know this was an extreme consequence and probably the tipping point rather than the cause (pure speculation). but I hate practical jokes. If this tragedy hadn't happened the victim would still have suffered humiliation. They aren't funny and always cause upset.
So I don't feel sorry for them at all.

AgentZigzag Sat 08-Dec-12 00:44:58

I agree too.

Not that it takes anything away from the sympathy I feel for the family of the woman who died, but although they were being cunts (which I read on another MN thread about it and thought just about summed them up) there's no way they set out to cause such pain and suffering to either of the women, or their families.

They're going to have to live with what they've done (like a lot of other people) and it's a terrible sentence to wake up to in the morning.

WorraLorraTurkey Sat 08-Dec-12 00:45:10

I totally agree

It was a stupid prank but no-one could have predicted that outcome.

Obviously first and foremost I feel for the nurse and her family but I also feel for the DJ's and for Kate herself who will no doubt feel in part to 'blame' even though that's a ridiculous thought.

MsNobodyAgain Sat 08-Dec-12 00:45:43

YABU

She may have not had any suicidal thoughts until she was held up to public ridicule.

They should be ashamed. I hope they never have a good nights sleep again.

AgentZigzag Sat 08-Dec-12 00:48:42

Some of it was down to these particular circumstances, but some of it is pretty poignant given the Levinson Enquiry.

Who the fuck do these people (in the media) think they fucking are??

WorraLorraTurkey Sat 08-Dec-12 00:48:55

I can't see putting the prankers through on a switchboard as something to kill yourself over if you've had no previous suicidal thoughts to be honest.

If anyone was held up to public ridicule it was the nurse who gave out the information.

Obviously no-one should be speculating at this stage, but no way in my mind would something like that make a normally stable person end their life.

CoolaYuleA Sat 08-Dec-12 00:49:12

I'm struggling with this one. Not because the prank had such horrific consequences, of course they couldn't have predicted that.

I'm struggling because they thought it was ok to use a pregnant woman's (doesn't matter who really) illness and admittance to hospital for a prank in the first place. When you take it down to the very basic level they called a HOSPITAL to make fun at the expense of someone who was ill.

Regardless of what happened after, as tragic as it is, for me using sick people for fun is just distasteful and inappropriate.

So no, I don't feel sorry for them. Even if this hadn't happened pranking hospitals at the expense of sick people is just wrong and they shouldn't have done it. Prank people if you like - but don't exploit people in a vulnerable state, such as illness, to do it.

TBH I do feel slightly sorry for the DJ's. They did the stupid prank but the lawyer/station managers heard it all, discussed it and then agreed it should be aired. They should have known, at the very least, that the nurses involved would be humiliated and/or disciplined.

They didn;t have to air the tapes. I think the DJ's are getting all of the blame and vitirol when really the powers that be at their station are the ones in control.

CoolaYuleA Sat 08-Dec-12 00:53:10

I do feel sorry for Kate and William though - even without what has happened a prank relating to their pregnancy is unfair and would have marred it a little. Now they will always remember that this happened during what should be a happy time for them.

All because some asshats thought it would be "funny".

Morloth Sat 08-Dec-12 00:54:02

Most of my anger is directed towards 2Day FM itself, but no, I do believe they bear some personal responsibility here.

They work for this company, the picked up the phone and they enjoyed the laughs from all the fallout.

If I do something awful at my bosses' direction it is her fault and it is also mine. They were not in any danger if they refused to do this stunt. We do not have a policy of being shot for disobeying our bosses here in Oz.

They did it, they enjoyed the laughs and now they can suffer the consequences.

AgentZigzag Sat 08-Dec-12 00:57:03

Do you think they could have reasonably predicted the consequences though Morloth?

Apparently the nurse was inconsolable over the prank, I have no doubt she was at least initially scared of losing her job. She had been repeatedly humiliated publically purely because she wasn't trained in this situation and was caught off guard.
She recieved vitrol and calls for her to be sacked inc on this forum.

Every one of those producers listened to that recording and the DJs knew that people could lose their jobs over this.

We have no idea the background she came from or what the possibility of losing that job meant.

For that reason I don't feel sorry for them.

MsNobodyAgain Sat 08-Dec-12 01:01:49

She will have been ridiculed because she put the call through in the first place instead of questioning it.

She was a woman put in the media spotlight. Who expects that?

It's wrong.

I don't buy into this 'well, she must have had ishoos anyway' thing, and it being the straw that broke the camels back. She was national news. It was played over and over again. She was humiliated.

Get yourself taunted all over the world and see how you feel.

I do agree the DJ's appeared to court the attention they got over this. Twitter messages about how they went 'global' etc. Through their twitter messages, it appeared they enjoyed the attention.

All concerned in this prank must have known there would be consequences, not these specific terrible consequences but consequences all the same, most likely for the poor person that believed their prank and talked to them.

No-one knows what drove this lady to this but it seems clear to me that this situation greatly contributed to her decision.

Morloth Sat 08-Dec-12 01:03:47

Do I think they would have known she would die? No.

But it doesn't take a huge leap to understand that they might be costing someone their job and hurting someone quite badly.

Actions have consequences, they didn't think before they acted. A moment's thought by a reasonably responsible adult would have resulted in this not happening.

There was no reason for a call to be made from a radio station to a hospital pretending to be a concerned relative of a sick person for laughs, there was just no good reason for that to happen, not at all.

A prank isn't funny when you know innocent people could lose their jobs over it.

As for the radio station, I find it revolting that after her death had been announced they were still playing prank tapes, still had it on their facebook page and such.

My family are mostly nurses, it could have been any of them so im finding it difficult to not judge.

WorraLorraTurkey Sat 08-Dec-12 01:07:28

Come on of course she must have had issues the poor woman.

Again, none of us know at this stage but to kill yourself 2 days after putting a call through to a switch board and finding out you've been the butt of a public joke?

SchnappsDamnYou Sat 08-Dec-12 01:07:32

No, I do not feel sorry for them.
At the very least they must have known that the nurses they called could be sacked, reprimanded and humiliated at best, and they were calling a hospital to make fun of a sick person and share personal private details for a laugh and fame.

They could not have predicted a death but they should and could easily have predicted that people would be hurt, embarrassed and ashamed and humiliated.
They deserve to feel utterly dreadful and they should feel burning shame and remorse.

Morloth Sat 08-Dec-12 01:09:07

She is still dead Worra, even if this was just 'the straw', there didn't need to be a straw did there?

What possible justification could there be for that call to have been made at all?

MsNobodyAgain Sat 08-Dec-12 01:10:29

Bollocks Worra

Utter bollocks

AgentZigzag Sat 08-Dec-12 01:10:31

I agree they could have reasonably predicted they'd cause shit for the people involved Morloth.

But being directly involved in someone's death (and I agree with 'No-one knows what drove this lady to this but it seems clear to me that this situation greatly contributed to her decision.') is one of the biggest things that can happen to a person.

They're going to reflect on this with regret until the day they die themselves.

They're total wankers in thinking this was any kind of entertainment, but I can't help but feel for them without losing any of the horror at the nurses death (if it was by her own hand because of this).

And do the listeners who indulge them in this kind of entertainment, have to shoulder some of the responsibility too?

Why did they think their listeners would think it was a right old laugh? Because their listeners would think it acceptable?

ravenAK Sat 08-Dec-12 01:12:35

Very limited sympathy.

I'm sure they'll feel absolutely awful about it & didn't foresee etc etc.

But the intended consequence of their actions was inevitably going to humiliate staff, put them at risk of disciplinary procedures...& in order to obtain confidential medical information about an ill woman in early pregnancy.

Cuntish thing to do in the first place.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Sat 08-Dec-12 01:14:26

Being publicly and internationally humiliated is a pretty big fucking straw.

And they deliberately set out to make her the object of derision.

I hate shite like this. It's horrible and I hope they feel terrible and I hope that this kind of "humour" becomes socially unacceptable.

WorraLorraTurkey Sat 08-Dec-12 01:14:30

She is still dead Worra, even if this was just 'the straw', there didn't need to be a straw did there?

Of course there didn't need to be a straw.

But equally the DJ's could never have known that their stupid, childish prank would lead to the person who took the call, killing themself.

No-one in the world would ever prank anyone if they ever thought that would happen.

VestaCurry Sat 08-Dec-12 01:14:50

No don't feel sorry for them, they will get over it, poor lambs.

Actually after reading the following I have no idea why the station is even on air.

The station and its DJs have attracted frequent criticism in recent years following a series of high-profile controversies. Although the call purporting to be from the Queen and Prince Charles was made by Greig and Christian, in August 2009, Kyle Sandilands, a shock jock on 2Day FM, sparked a huge public backlash following a lie-detector stunt in which a 14-year-old girl revealed she had been raped.

Sandilands was subsequently dropped as a judge on Australian Idol and criticised by the then prime minister, Kevin Rudd, for his role in the episode.

The DJ also provoked fury in November last year, after he launched a verbal attack on a female journalist, Alison Stephenson, who had reported on the low ratings of a TV show he and O'Neil presented.

"Some fat slag on news.com.au has already branded it a disaster," he said. "You can tell by reading the article that she just hates us and has always hated us. What a fat, bitter thing you are. You're deputy editor of an online thing. You've got a nothing job anyway. You're a piece of shit. This low thing, Alison Stephenson, deputy editor of news.com.au online. You're supposed to be impartial, you little troll."

He added: "You're a bullshit artist, girl. You should be fired from your job. Your hair's very '90s. And your blouse. You haven't got that much titty to be having that low cut a blouse. Watch your mouth or I'll hunt you down."

His remarks led sponsors including the car company Holden to withdraw their sponsorship of the show.

In April this year, Sandilands was also criticised for referring to a Pakistani girl born with additional limbs as "spider baby" and implying her disability would give her an advantage in the Olympic games.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Sat 08-Dec-12 01:16:38

Agent I definitely think that listeners have some culpability in this too.

Wheresmypopcorn Sat 08-Dec-12 01:17:19

I think they could have handled it differently. but no, I don't want more tragedy out of this. they will have to live with it the rest of their lives.

Morloth Sat 08-Dec-12 01:17:49

AgentZigzag 'They're going to reflect on this with regret until the day they die themselves.' Good, they should do - perhaps they will grow the fuck up and realise that hurting people isn't fun and can cause all sorts of shit to happen.

Yes, their listeners deserve some of the responsibility.

I used to listen to 2Day FM a good 10 years ago, it was a great 'young' fun station. On my return to Sydney in 2010 I of course went straight back to my usual station in the car.

I lasted about a week before I realised just how bad it had gotten.

Anyone who listened and laughed needs to have a good hard look at themselves. What kind of people are they?

This wasn't a prank on the Royals it was a prank on a Nurse.

LadyBeagleBaublesandBells Sat 08-Dec-12 01:18:01

I don't feel sorry for them at all.
It's like saying 'Oh I feel sorry for the Sun after they got rapped for tapping Millie Dowler's phone''
It's just nasty exploitative journalism, they didn't dupe a 'Royal', they duped a nurse who, whatever her mental being, reached the last straw and killed herself.
I hope that remains in their minds forever.

AgentZigzag Sat 08-Dec-12 01:19:40

My sympathy is limited too Raven, it's more on a human level rather than a personal level for them.

In the same way I'd feel sorry for a murderer who'd had an abusive childhood IYSWIM?

Morloth Sat 08-Dec-12 01:19:47

And Sandilands is still in their employ, he is still on the fucking air.

misterwife Sat 08-Dec-12 01:19:54

I actually do.

As people have said already, the nurse was subject to huge public criticism over the prank, and then killed herself.

If these two DJs kill themselves now because of the public shame they've suffered, who will be to blame? Themselves?

Or the same huge public who hugely publicly criticised the nurse who killed herself?

Or is the whole issue of apportioning blame in situations like these a completely bloody ridiculous one?

If you answered C, congratulations! You score 100 points. I'm fairly sure the vast majority of people commenting on this will never have had to deal with the immediate aftermath of someone they've recently interacted with committing suicide. Let me assure you all that it isn't brilliant.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Sat 08-Dec-12 01:21:50

The reason I'm particularly angered by this is I suspect they won't really be upset or haunted by this at all.

Oh, they'll realise some self-pitying statement expressing regret and shock and blah blah blah, but inside I'm suspect they are the kind of self-centred bastards who will be chiefly worried about the effect this will have on their own careers, and secondarily pissed off that nobody finds their deliberate cruelty "funny" any more.

I think everybody concerned about their well being is giving them too much credit. If they were concerned about their victims they wouldn't have exposed them to international ridicule.

AgentZigzag Sat 08-Dec-12 01:25:05

They were testing the borders of what makes something funny, which is what should happen.

But they seem to have lost sight of their humanity when they were touting for world wide media exposure/huge ratings.

I'm only thinking out loud Morloth, so not slagging the Aussies or anything, but do you think the 'jokey' relationship we have together as countries (which sometimes is played as a joke but actually deadly serious (as I've found with some of my Welsh rellies)), and the republican/royalist camps, may have made this seem more acceptable to the radio station and what they thought their listeners would like? (bit of a long question, sorry grin)

ViperInTheManger Sat 08-Dec-12 01:26:06

I don't think that, unless you work in healthcare, you have much appreciation of the damage a breach of confidentiality can do. This poor woman will have felt guilty for the sake of her patients, humiliated and terrified for her future.

I cannot see any excuse at all for the network and DJs bragging about this stupid prank even after her death. Shame on them.

misterwife Sat 08-Dec-12 01:29:36

Holy cow, I've just read Whistlingwaves' post. That made me feel sick. And that guy is still on air how??!

AgentZigzag Sat 08-Dec-12 01:29:49

People want to try and make sense of what's happened though Holdme.

Not just because they want to get their head round something which resonates with them personally, but so official procedures can be put in place so shit like this doesn't happen again.

If you can pinpoint who is responsible, you can hold them accountable and punish them accordingly.

Which is the whole premise of the criminal justice system isn't it?

kennyp Sat 08-Dec-12 01:30:41

i think it's an absolute tragedy. but how would anyone turn down/refuse to put through a phone call from someone who sounds exactly like the queen??

just horrendously awful. i had to ring a celebs son once on orders from my boss. hospital said they would not release details. i said i didn't care - it was my bosses friends son, nothing to do with me. which was fine by me. but how would someone deal with a phone call from the queen?? where would you draw the line. awful.

Morloth Sat 08-Dec-12 01:30:51

As an Australian I don't mind a good poke at the Royals - they have power, they can take it and the whole 'Royal' thing is IMO ridiculous.

But just a tiny moment's thought would have made them realise that the Royals were never going to be the ones who wore any shit for this.

Misterwife, I do have suicide experience sadly. I do not want the DJs to kill themselves.

I do think THEY should publically apologise not hide behind statements from others.

Worra
I know several people with depression and no suicidal intentions for who the thought of losing their jobs, not being able to feed their kids, find work again and be publically humiliated and berated would be final straw.

Hell im not sure how i would have dealt with it either. The thought i might lose my job and not be able to work in same field as i had trained, not provide for dd..

The fact is we have no idea what that woman had been through recently.

But they DID know playing that tape could affect peoples jobs.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Sat 08-Dec-12 01:33:59

See, if you want to push the boundaries of humour, you should do it with yourself and other consenting comedians. Not some poor woman on the other side of the world trying to do her job without the slightest suspicion she's about to become a YouTube hit.

misterwife Sat 08-Dec-12 01:36:33

The reason sites remained up for a fair while after news of her death became public was because of the time difference - it broke in mid-afternoon, which is the middle of the night over there. Sure, the news/TV/radio industry is a 24/7 operation, but I don't think everyone connected with this farrago would have been aware of it soon enough to act promptly. At least some people would have been asleep.

This explanation will be unsatisfactory to a lot of people, but I really don't think those sites remained up out of some kind of desire to add insult to injury.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Sat 08-Dec-12 01:38:58

I don't think that assigning blame - 80% to the station, 15.3% to the hospital 2.6% to the listeners - is possible or even helpful.

What I would love to see happen is growing recognition that publicly humiliating people in the age of the Internet is not funny, but cruel, nasty, and bullying. I would like to see people/audiences turned off by it and stations and networks consider it beyond the pale.

I cannot believe the station is still employing this Sandliands man. The station have a lot to answer for.

Totally agree, the Royals were not the butt of this 'joke'. The nursing staff were.

AgentZigzag Sat 08-Dec-12 01:42:36

I totally agree HoldMe, they got it very, very wrong.

I was thinking about why fonejacker is funny, and it's because the joke is completely on the character and not the person on the other end.

People who think it's funny to have a joke at other peoples expense, to humiliate and degrade them in front of other people, are cunts for not knowing it's wrong.

But factor in the type of radio station it was hungry for ratings, what some people in Aus think is OK (and in this country too), the queen and the biggest story on the day she went into hospital, and it's pretty explosive.

Morloth Sat 08-Dec-12 01:43:37

It wasn't even a Live call. There was still time after it had happened for someone with an ounce of common sense to have said 'actually, we could get this woman into a lot of trouble, lets not'.

theplodder Sat 08-Dec-12 01:43:42

I think this whols story stinks.

You can get the hospital switchboard number from their website. It is a fairly small private hospital, no A&E department, just surgical and diagnostic. A switchboard is only manned by receptionists in the daytime. The call came in at 5.30am UK time and the nurses answer the switchboard on the much quieter night shift.....Jacinda answered the main switchboard and transferred the call to the duty nurse.
What I don't understand is that Jacinda had worked there for 4 years and the royals are regulars. Why why why would she think that Brenda would call at 5.30am? I daresay the daytime receptionists know that Brenda would get her private secretary to call hospitals to enquire about family.

According to reports Jacinda was proud to work at a hospital that looked after the The Family, I can only deduce that in the heat of the moment she got a bit awestruck and agreed to transfer the call thinking it really was the queen.

But WHY top herself? We are told that she was being supported by the hospital for her "mistake" so how can someone be that distraught to kill themselves, she didn't reveal any confidential information at all, just transferred the call.

There has to be something more to this story.

Lesbanian Sat 08-Dec-12 01:43:57

Absolutely awful and feel for her family.

I read that the lady did not speak good English, goes someway towards explaining why she fell for the "prank" although I haven't heard the tapes to know this.

How guilty and humiliated she must have felt. It's heartbreaking.

misterwife Sat 08-Dec-12 01:46:06

I think the key to what TonyDanza is saying is 'in the age of the internet'. In the past you could manage being publicly humiliated or pranked as messages didn't spread as quickly as they do now, and you could get around it by keeping a very low profile. But with social media, one foot wrong and you may as well not leave the house, or turn your computer on ever again. The internet will always have an easily accessible record of how much of a chump you were.

Brycie Sat 08-Dec-12 01:51:29

Yes waste of time. Pity five year olds working down mines in Colombia or Indian dalits who pick up human shit with their fingers for a living. REally you are wasting your emotional energy on this. They'll be fine. They won't starve or die young. They'll be just fine.

NotTodayThankYou Sat 08-Dec-12 02:06:42

No sympathy whatsever. I despise this moronic type of 'humour' that involves causing distress/trouble for other people in the name of a 'laugh'.

Those who are saying that they couldn't have predicted the suicide are just justifying this type of 'humour'.

Whilst they couldn't have predicted the suicide, if they have half a braincell between the lot of them, it would have been perfectly clear that their prank would be likely to cause distress and possibly trouble for people working at the hospital and potentially the Duchess too.

When you are involved in broadcasting you have a responsibility for the content of what you broadcast and towards your audience. They have failed miserably in their responsibilities and are unfit for their jobs.

NotTodayThankYou Sat 08-Dec-12 02:09:19

I meant that those who are saying that they feel sorry for the djs because they couldn't have predicted the suicide are jusifying this type of 'humour'.

I really need to go to bed....

richardsimmonstanktop Sat 08-Dec-12 02:16:09

Brycie - that's really compassionate. hmm Just because there are people worse off is no consolation to these children who have lost their mother. Not sure I follow your logic there.

I echo everything Whistlingwaves said upthread.

I don't blame the DJs for this nurse's death but as others have said, it doesn't take a huge leap of logic to understand that a prank like this could result in someone losing their job and public ridicule and derision.

I just feel so sad for this woman, she must've felt so desperate.

AgentZigzag Sat 08-Dec-12 02:19:35

I've never justified this kind of 'entertainment' NotToday.

But I can feel sorry for them at the same time as loathing what they did.

And I can, because I do.

From what I've seen, the pair of them have been laughing it up and reveling in the attention they're getting. Neither seem to be at all sorry about it, so, no, no sympathy from me.

sausagerolemodel Sat 08-Dec-12 02:30:04

Can we all agree never to watch any stupid hidden camera Dom Joly style crap again then? I have always despised hidden camera entertainment shows and prank calls are just the radio version. It's cheap, shit entertainment and always at the expense of an innocent party. Point and laugh. The very basis of bullying and yet we condone it as entertainment....

differentnameforthis Sat 08-Dec-12 04:39:05

So because it has been going on for a long time it's ok?

Right, I'll tell her children that then, or will you? That station is already under licence controls due to a sickening stunt where anotehr DJ forced a 14yr to confess she had been raped, while under lie detector testing LIVE on air, so it isn't like they don't know that these things can & do go wrong.

Who cares if they never intended it? Pranks by their very nature are meant to humiliate & embarrass, so they expected that at least & that is bad enough. They have no respect for anyone, at all & it sickens me that people think they can do this with little/no consequence.

Oh & you have proof that she had been having suicidal thoughts, do you? No, thought not.

flow4 Sat 08-Dec-12 05:19:51

The DJs have been taken off the air indefinitely.
The radio station is subject to investigation by the Australian media regulator.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/australian-radio-hosts-who-made-prank-call-to-royal-hospital-taken-off-air-over-nurses-death-8393559.html

That poor woman and her poor family.

flow4 Sat 08-Dec-12 05:20:14
exoticfruits Sat 08-Dec-12 07:19:50

No- people ought to have more thoughts to the consequences. Not everyone can take publicity- even if happy and well balanced. The idea that everyone wants '5mins of fame' is utter garbage- even for a good reason.

kim147 Sat 08-Dec-12 07:24:44

They deliberately did a stunt which they and the owners and lawyers knew would have real consequences. Some prank calls will have no consequences but this call which led to the health details of a member of the Royal Family being broadcast would have had consequences for people involved.

Only an idiot would not think that the staff involved would not face some consequences - be it disciplinary or emotional. Yet they still went ahead and broadcast it - to boost their ratings.

I don't think they could have predicted her death - but that is what happened. I hope they reflect on their decision. They have blood on their hands.

Bunbaker Sat 08-Dec-12 07:33:50

YABU. They should have thought about the consequences. It wasn't funny in the first place and now their actions will haunt them for a long time.

exoticfruits Sat 08-Dec-12 07:37:15

It was one of the first things that my mother taught me. She knew someone injured in a common practical joke. DS had to have stitches after a practical joke went wrong. Always think it out first before you have your 'bit of fun' at someone else's expense- especially if exposing them to worldwide public ridicule.

festivelyfocussed Sat 08-Dec-12 08:02:49

I have no sympathy with these DJs. Their actions were deliberate and thoughtless. Thos was not a joke it was a cruel prank.even a complete fucking idiot would have known that whoever fell for their shitty prank would be at risk of losing their job and being publically ridiculed.her previous mental state is no one's business and probably not even relevant. This poor woman was publicly humiliated and harshly criticised (including on this forum btw) how many of know how we'd hold up under that pressure? This woman sPent her professional life helping other ppl and probably saving a few lives along the way. The DJs - What good have they ever done through their work? Massive shame on them and everyone who joined in.

meddie Sat 08-Dec-12 08:05:28

Firstly my main thoughts and sympathies are with the family of Jacintha.
How awful to feel that she felt suicide was her only option.I can't even begin to imagine the pain, humiliation and abject fear for her future she must have had.
I am a nurse and making an error and losing your registration over it is a constant fear. You are essentially left jobless without any qualifications and at 46 she must have felt that her career and livelihood was potentially destroyed for good.

As for the DJ's I just know I wouldn't want to be in their shoes right now. The worldwide condemnation, hate mail, destruction of their careers and the sheer misery they are going to endure over the coming months would take a strong person to be able to bear.

Hulababy Sat 08-Dec-12 08:11:43

No, no real sympathy for them. They did something wrong and now need to face the consequences, even if those consequences are much worse than they had foreseen. If you do something stupid then you have to accept what happens regardless.

And the whole radio station had form, so they need to be having a big look at themselves and how they operate.

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Sat 08-Dec-12 08:16:22

No sympathy whatsoever. If you are going to play pranks you have to take the consequences, be they good or bad. They wanted a quick cheap laugh to entertain the listeners and they got something else. Perhaps they will think about the people they are pranking next time.

FamiliesShareGerms Sat 08-Dec-12 08:16:53

I don't like practical jokes, and am really bad at taking them myself. But I don't think that the DJs could possibly have known how this would end, and if they did, surely they wouldn't have done it? Tragic, unforeseen consequences

As a journalist the thing that startles me is that it wasn't live. It was pre-recorded, and went to the managers and lawyers. And then broadcast. The decision to broadcast it was taken by someone more senior. They should be the ones carrying the can.

Frequently on live broadcasts, lines are crossed. From the top of my head, the Harold Shipman trial and the Soham trial both could have collapsed because of things said on live radio. But this wasn't live. It was carefully considered, and then broadcast. Which says they need new, better managers to me...

SomeTiggyPudding Sat 08-Dec-12 08:17:24

"It was a stupid prank but no-one could have predicted that outcome." - I think you could have predicted there was a good chance that people would be upset.
Jeremy Beadle used to check the health of his prank victims before hand. The radio station didn't. Jeremy Beadle used to have to get permission from his prank victims before he showed them on TV. The radio station didn't.
You couldn't predict the person they called would kill herself, but you could predict with absolute certainty that you didn't know how she would react.

SomeTiggyPudding Sat 08-Dec-12 08:18:10

but you could predict know with absolute certainty that you didn't know how she would react.

SomeTiggyPudding Sat 08-Dec-12 08:19:03

I do feel sorry for all involved. Kate and William and the DJs, and of course the nurse's family.

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Sat 08-Dec-12 08:20:01

No. I don't feel sorry for them.

This is the same station (don't know if it's the same people) who tricked a 14 year old child into telling them about her rape live on air. And then asked her "is that the only experience you've had?"

Sandilands once called a woman a foul name and told her something along the lines of 'shut your mouth or I'll hunt you down.'

That station needs dealing with.

While I don't think that calling the hospital pretending to be the queen was a terrible evil thing to do or anything, it had consequences that they couldn't have predicted and it should tell them something! They should understand that they don't know how someone is going to feel or react to their 'jokes'. (for want of a better word)

Brycie Sat 08-Dec-12 08:21:16

"Brycie - that's really compassionate. hmm"

do you think you;re being compassionate and the rest of us are really mean?

yes it's a waste of time giving sympathy for these people any time, one second more, than people worse off

they'll be fine

RubyGates Sat 08-Dec-12 08:25:34

None at all.
Prank programmes make my toes curl. I hate the thought that someone else should be made the deliberate butt of a joke.
There is always the chance that it will go horribly wrong, it's only a matter of time before something like this happens.
They made their livings feeding on the lack of empathy displayed by their listeners and the vulnerability of their victims.

Levantine Sat 08-Dec-12 08:27:20

No sympathy at all here. Cruel idiots.

KenLeeeeeeeInnaSantaHat Sat 08-Dec-12 08:32:27

YABU

At best it was a stupid prank that I fail to find any humour in whatsoever. At worst it was a cruel hoax that for all they knew could have jeopardised the job of the person who took the call. No sympathy at all from me.

I don't think you can lay the poor lady's suicide at their feet though. If anything, we should be asking questions about the cruel jibes from the British press.

wannaBe Sat 08-Dec-12 08:43:50

all this wailing and nashing of teeth is completely disproportionate.

yes the dj's were stupid to do the prank but tbh it was so blatantly a prank that no-one should have fallen for it.

Before this happened, the majority view was how could anyone have been so stupid to have fallen for that, and that view doesn't suddenly become less so iyswim.

And of course a normally stable woman wouldn't kill herself over this alone, anyone who genuinely believes that is naive. And yes, sometimes people appear to commit suicide with no previous rhyme or reason, but that's just the thing with suicide, people are so determined to succeed that often their reasons are entirely hidden from the world.

But the implication on other threads has been that anyone can just snap and commit suicide at any time, which is complete bollocks. Of course there were underlying issues. but far easier to bay for blood and whip up a frenzy over someone who none of us even knew ey. hmm

HermioneE Sat 08-Dec-12 08:45:28

It really wasn't live?!?!

I thought their 'defence' was that they didn't think they would get put through when they rang. Which tbh I had a bit of sympathy with, if all they'd planned was to get hung up on and then they got carried away live on air.

But if it wasn't live, what kind of shit excuse is that?

gazzalw Sat 08-Dec-12 08:49:35

It all comes back to consequences....even the most innocent of pranks (and this wasn't) can have very negative results....

They will have to live the rest of their lives with the consequences of this foolish idiocy... I am sure they had not a clue that a woman's suicide would be the outcome (and yes she must have already been depressed to have been 'tipped over the edge' by this) but it will weigh heavily with them for life sad.

Smellslikecatspee Sat 08-Dec-12 08:56:00

Not in the least.

Any prank/ practical joke requires a butt, a victim. And unless you've been in that situation you can't realise how crap it can feel.

It's like when people talk about being bullied at work, you'll always have someone saying 'oh for Gods sake, you shouldn't be so sensitive'. This to my mind is a form of bullying.

As for those saying she shouldn't have fallen for it, it was 5;30 am, she was coming to the end of a night shift. Few of us are at our best then and as an ex- nurse who loved night shifts my brain at that time would have been full of what I needed to do before the end of shift, meds, documentation, obs etc. not thinking hmmmmm is this the Queen or is this a pair of dipshit DJs

kim147 Sat 08-Dec-12 08:57:18

Apparently in Australia, you need consent to broadcast such stuff. It was not live, it had been checked by lawyers.

It's pretty obvious they did not give a shit about the real consequences for real people.

exoticfruits Sat 08-Dec-12 08:57:26

Jeremy Beadle used to have to get permission from his prank victims before he showed them on TV. The radio station didn't.

This is the big difference. If someone is having a 'joke' on an innocent person and going to make it public they should explain first and ask permission.

EIizaDay Sat 08-Dec-12 08:57:40

I think the hospital must take some blame for this dreadful incident in that they obviously didn't train staff enough with regards privacy issues.

We all know how difficult it is to get info from a hospital about a loved one and this particular hospital should have heightened their security and privacy issues when a VIP is a patient. The hospital management have a lot to answer for IMO.

It was a childish prank but I'm sure the DJs didn't actually think they had much chance of getting through hospital security. They shouldn't have and that is the issue.

exoticfruits Sat 08-Dec-12 08:59:15

It was 5.30 in the morning! Taken by a nurse who only took it because no one was there!

exoticfruits Sat 08-Dec-12 09:00:06

And a tired nurse. We don't all think-even if trained-under those circumstances.

exoticfruits Sat 08-Dec-12 09:01:18

People should think first and then not blame the hospital for not wasting time training staff to handle hoax calls.

MerryKissMyArse Sat 08-Dec-12 09:02:55

I think what they did was stupid and I feel terribly bad for the poor nurse and her family, of course, but I do think there must be more behind her tragic death than just the prank call alone. Yes I do feel some sympathy for the DJs.

Anifrangapani Sat 08-Dec-12 09:03:58

The DJs and the rest of the people who re reported or retweeted or liked it held a person up to public ridicule for such a non story. In my world that is bullying. Bullying is nasty no matter the consequences.
I don't feel sorry for them. If they never forget their role in this it would be too soon.

Morloth Sat 08-Dec-12 09:04:34

Of course there is more to it from the nurse's point of view, of course there is.

The point is, this should never have been part of her problems.

soverylucky Sat 08-Dec-12 09:06:54

It was 5.30 in the morning when she took the call. She was probably very tired. As I understand it she was not British so there may be a language issue there - whilst the accent sounds silly to the rest of us listening she may not have realised so easily. She put the call through. She was only on the phone to the hoaxer for a very brief amount of time. Perhaps she thought when the call was put through to the other nurse that proper security questions would be asked before details were given over the phone? We just don't know.

I also feel that the press are partially to blame but it doesn't detract from the fact that they were trying to find out information about a pregnant woman who was ill. Kate knew when she married into that family that she would be hounded about her weight, dress sense, hair etc. (none of which I condone btw) but you would have thought that when you are ill in hospital you would be left in peace. I wouldn't be surprised from listening to the call that actually the dj's wanted to speak to Kate directly at 5.30 am! Playing pranks on friends when you know whether they will take it in good grace is one thing but on complete strangers is not on. It doesn't take a genius to work out that if they were put through there would be great chance that someone would lose their job and that the gutter press would have a field day.
I should imagine this woman feared for her job not to mention the fact that some people take duty very seriously indeed and feel honoured to serve the Royals. Who knows but I honestly think these two should resign. They should have gone after the incident with the teenage girl and the rape she admitted.

diddl Sat 08-Dec-12 09:07:44

Not terribly sorry tbh.

Although I can´t help thinking that if it hadn´t been these two, it would have been a national newspaper under the guise of exposing lack of security.

Can´t understand why staff just weren´t told-the Royals will not phone/security will deal with any calls re Kate.

soverylucky Sat 08-Dec-12 09:08:55

Also I think they knew they had a very good chance of getting through otherwise why bother with the prank. It would have been a very boring bit of broadcasting if they just had a dial tone and someone hanging up on them or whatever. They had the correct number for the hospital that they had gone to the touble of finding.

CabbageLeaves Sat 08-Dec-12 09:10:24

No sympathy whatsoever. They pranked and someone died. Maybe she had mental health issues, depression, other problems...but it certainly seems that this call was devastating to her. They made the call. They carry that guilt.

Along with the station, lawyers and viewers who delight in watching others misfortune. We've moved away from 'pranks' to nasty actions. Would you like to lose your job because of a mistake made whilst being scammed? They knew the consequence for staff if they played the clip.

CSIJanner Sat 08-Dec-12 09:13:03

Ex-producers have stated that those involved with the call must give permission for it to be aired. Something tells me that it wasn't here. I was a crap joke that wasn't funny to start with.

I don't feel sorry for them. They're twats who took advantage of a pregnant woman's situation. I feel sorry for the two children who lost their mother at Christmas and will never be able to enjoy this time of year again.

janey68 Sat 08-Dec-12 09:14:12

No, I don't feel sorry for them. Of course no one could predict that she would kill herself, but it doesn't take a genius to work out that she would feel publicly humiliated, shamed and possibly face disciplinary action. Weren't there even calls from some posters on here for her to be sacked .... Nice. hmm
I hope the DJs now know what it feels like to be publicly vilified, no doubt they will feel haunted and threatened now after their actions and they dint deserve a good nights sleep or a days work for a long time

hiddenhome Sat 08-Dec-12 09:18:00

What I think a great many people are missing is that not only would this nurse have been worrying about losing her job, but she would possibly have been worried in case it was referred to the NMC (nursing governing body) who can and do strike nurses off the nursing register for a whole range of things sad Her entire career could have potentially been on the line. We don't know that she was worried about this of course but it's possible.

Chubfuddler Sat 08-Dec-12 09:18:44

I think it's laughable to try to paint these two arseholes as some kind of Lenny Bruce characters pushing at the boundaries of humour. What a load of crap.

They're upset that they've been pulled off air. They're upset they're getting stick on twitter and fb and in the media. They're not in the least bit upset that their fucking stupid prank has had these results. I don't buy that for a second.

x2boys Sat 08-Dec-12 09:19:18

As a nurse myself i dont feel one bit sorry for the DJ,S i also wonder exactly what support her managers were offering her they made a public statement last night saying she was a valued member iof the team will be greatley missed etc was not in any trouble hmm i find that hard to beleive, i was off sick last year with extreme stress as a direct result from bullying from senior management [ ok i work in the NHS but i imagine in a private hospital it would be much the same if not worse].A lot of people have blood on there hands.

SucksToBeMe Sat 08-Dec-12 09:19:39

Nurse =sad
DJs= angry

That's where my sympathy lies.

BegoniaBampot Sat 08-Dec-12 09:20:34

Hope the DJ's aren't totally used as scapegoats. There are a lot more people equally if not more responsible for giving it the go ahead like the station managers and lawyers. To say nothing of how others responded to it and jumped on the bandwagon. I imagine the DJ's will be the ones getting all the hate though.

SamuelWestsMistress Sat 08-Dec-12 09:35:45

Their prank was twattish to say the least purely because contacting a hospital for a "joke" is a pretty tasteless thing to do anyway.

The outcome is far worse than anyone could have imagined. The poor woman clearly felt such instant and distressing despair with the whole situation that she acted in a spontaneous irrational way. I don't think that she'd have necessarily had to have any previous mental illness issues as some are saying. She clearly thought there was no way back and no matter what anyone was saying to her otherwise. Just an awful situation for the poor woman and her family.

However I understand what you are trying to say. These people were clearly of poor judgement and insensitive enough to thing what they were doing was entertainment. Perhaps even being so far away they even felt detached from the situation. I do think that there was no malice or intent to cause harm and the outcome will affect them for the rest of their lives both personally and professionally.

If this is now not a lesson for the media to back the fuck down and leave the Dutchess alone then I don't know what is. Here she is not even 12 weeks and look what has happened.

The only monster here is the media who have blown it all up. Perhaps Leveson should take note.

Nancy66 Sat 08-Dec-12 09:35:51

yes, i said on an earlier thread that I feel very sorry for the DJs

manicinsomniac Sat 08-Dec-12 09:47:55

There's a lot of people saying that the DJs couldn't possibly have known what would happen and a lot of people saying that the nurse did not need to have any other 'issues' to have commited suicide but that it was an understandable thing to do based just on what happened. Those two things can't both be true.

I feel sorry for them. Horrible thing to have to live with. It's possible to blame someone and feel sorry for them at the same time. I would feel sorry for a driver who hit and killed someone while drunk at the wheel - it would totally their own fault and theywould deserve everything they got but I'd still feel for them on a human level because I can't imagine how awful it must be to shoulder that responsiblity. You can also feel sorry for several people at once on different sides of a situation. Sympathy for the DJs doesn't lessen the sympathy for the nurse's family.

MoleyMick Sat 08-Dec-12 09:51:50

I agree too. I'm in Australia, and when it happened the consensus was just that it was a bit unfunny. Now the DJs are being ripped to shreds and I bet they feel dreadful. It's just a terrible situation

expatinscotland Sat 08-Dec-12 09:55:27

No, I don't feel sorry for them. They're adults. They chose to do this for a living.

SantaWearsGreen Sat 08-Dec-12 10:09:49

Yabu.

It wasn't even a funny joke, practical jokes aren't. They're just immature and stupid. Never got them, even as a kid. They really cause upset and distress. What happened with the nurse is obviously an incredibly rare outcome but regardless they still caused her public international humiliation.

It doesn't matter whether it was the straw that broke the camels back or not. They still should feel an incredible amount of guilt for what they have caused. The poor woman. And not just that but they have dampened the spirits of Will and Kate who should be going through a joyous time! And of course added stress when Kate needs to be focusing on getting better.

I can't believe the DJs won't be fired for it, and that the bosses have said the Djs are the 'real victims' in all of this apparently hmm How on earth does that one work??

I feel sorry that they will have to live with this for the rest of their lives, it was a prank that went very wrong and that would be a hard thing for anyone to live with. However, I think it would be best if they were taken off air and just got on with their lives quietly and away from celebville, along with the producer etc. saw some of the messages to them on twitter and Facebook and they are very scary.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Sat 08-Dec-12 10:13:20

I think all the people calling for her to be sacked should feel just as bad as the DJ's. Yes they played the prank, but everyone else ran with it, being all outraged as people do so well, calling for the nurses involved to be sacked.

I don't care what people say, it has only been since she committed suicide that people have stopped talking about sacking her. If she hadn't taken her own life then people would still be harping on about how she should loose her job.

xkittyx Sat 08-Dec-12 10:15:57

I have a great deal of sympathy for the poor nurse and her family. None for a pair of thoughless, idiotic mindless idiots that played a cruel practical joke. Okay they couldn't foresee she would take her own life but at the very least it's obvious that people's careers might be ruined.
And it's utterly unfunny and in poor taste that it was a hospital they phoned.
The poor staff, getting on with their important jobs that actually make a difference and help people, to be targetted like that by a pair of vile, unfunny twats.
Hope they feel like utter utter crap and maybe start growing up a bit.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sat 08-Dec-12 10:16:37

I don't feel sorry for them at all.

What did they think would happen to the person taking the call regarding them getting into massive trouble?

This will stay with them forever. But nothing on earth like how the nurses husband and children will feel. Their lives are forever changed.

christmaswish Sat 08-Dec-12 10:21:26

This is the same radio station that forced a "scared" 14 yr old, to confess live on air, that she had been raped at the age of 12!

They work for a radio station that quizzes children about their sex lives. Even if the girl hadn't been raped, what kind of sick media, thinks that asking kids about their sexual experiences is OK?

They know they push the boundaries, I have no real sympathy for them.

The nurse may have had mental health issues, but no one on here can say that with any certainty.

If a child kills themselves after being tormented by bullies do we say "well they must have had other issues"?

No, because bullying is soul-destroying. We have no idea how much it affected the nurse. Even if she had previous issues, she may not have killed herself, if she hadn't been held up to public ridicule.

christmaswish Sat 08-Dec-12 10:22:15

Agree with everything Everlong says xx

threesocksfullofchocs Sat 08-Dec-12 10:23:14

yabu
but can see where your coming from, they now seem to be being hounded, seems like the media and internet has not learnt anything by this tragedy

EmpressOfTheNorthPole Sat 08-Dec-12 10:34:06

I think there are some crossed wires going on. Brycie, am I right that it's the DJs you're not sorry for, not Jacintha's DCs?

PessaryPam Sat 08-Dec-12 10:41:26

Three do you expect the media and the internet to learn?

FreudiansSlipper Sat 08-Dec-12 10:47:59

I think the press mainly the dm did far more damage calling for sackings and questioning the intelligence of both nurses

it was a crap praand rely the first time this has happenedand really their staff should have screened all calls they have enough staff working for them to do this

Once again the papers getting carried away with so called reporting regardless of all those involved and no doubt pushed by an editor desperate for a knighthood showing their outrage at this joke that even charles laughed off

Fecklessdizzy Sat 08-Dec-12 10:48:51

It was a spiteful trick and cost that poor nurse her life. the DJs and station concerned are scum. I've got no sympathy for them at all. Let's see how they like being on the recieving end.

PessaryPam Sat 08-Dec-12 10:50:23

YY Feckless. I also do not believe the hospital management were being supportive.

marriedandwreathedinholly Sat 08-Dec-12 10:52:04

No I don't feel at all sorry for them. They behaved despicably and what they did was fraudulent and dishonest from the very beginning. They did something on purpose with the intent of publishing the results in the media. The consequences have been horrific and also relate to the violation of the privacy of the Royal Family.

I think we should not forget that the behaviour of the media led to the death of Diana, Princess of Wales, William's mother. This week it has led to the death of Jacintha, a nurse and beloved daughter and family member of a less prominent family.

Not a great deal has been learnt since 1997 it seems to me.

They were and remain a pair of bastards who planned something dishonest and fraudulent - I would hope it is possible that they will be prosecuted as a result of their disgraceful conduct - manslaughter by association perhaps or something similar.

FreudiansSlipper Sat 08-Dec-12 10:53:14

and my sympathy is with Jacintha Saldanha's family and friends

But I do think the dj's are getting the brunt of all the blame others were involved too

RedToothbrush Sat 08-Dec-12 11:01:37

Not in the slightest. YABU.

1) This breaks all media ethics. In this country the newspapers have agreement over issues regarding the health of the royal family. Its well known. And reporting the medical condition of anyone whether they be a celeb or not, is very shaky ground in any western country and leaves you open to getting your arse sued. To play a prank like this, they must have weighed up the risk of that versus the potential profit from publicity. Or they are incredibly naive and ignorant and frankly if you are in media like that and don't understand basic level media ethics you shouldn't be in the job.
2) They ran a hospital and took the value time of busy nurses who should be spending their time caring for patients not dealing with idiots out for a cheap laugh. Calling the emergency services with prank calls is an offense in the UK, and I'm willing to put money on the same in Australia or at least is deeply frowned upon.
3) This was always going to cause upset to one party or another. It was completely predictable that it would upset the royal family (and the fact it was the royals is irrelevant - the same would be true of anyone especially in the public eye) and that if they were successful it would lead to disciplinary action or an investigation of staff, and there was a strong chance it would have an adverse effect on someones career and cause them a lot of stress and worry. It was more likely than not to put someone in a position which would be damaging to their mental health. Completely innocent staff who were unlikely to have had media training as they are nurses. This was totally outside any nurse's job description.
4) They took great delight in using the clip they had to promote themselves and the radio station as much as possible after the event. Not at one point did they think of anyone else. It was selfish and self serving.

It would have taken about 2 minutes to think this through and consider other people or the potential consequences and risks of the prank (including the risk of a back lash). They didn't. Not for one second. They had chance to prepare for this; it was completely premeditated. Unlike the poor nurse put on the spot having to make a snap decision.

The fact that the outcome is worse than anyone could have imagined is beside the point in my opinion.

We wouldn't have heard the headlines about the nurse who had a breakdown or had quit her job over this. It wouldn't have been important that it had recked her life or career. She'd be forgotten and left to get on with it by the press. There would be no holding the radio station accountable for how much they had destroyed someone's life. And she'd still be painted as "letting down the royals".

Its only disgusting, because the outcome has been so awful and provoked such a backlash.

The DJs need to be held responsible. The radio station needs to be held responsible. It need to be made clear that prank calls hurt people and can have devastating effects. It needs to be made clear that trying to illicit any medical details about anyone using deception is not acceptable in any western media outlet.

They didn't stop to feel sorry for how it might effect someone caught up in their actions. Why should I feel sorry for the DJs, whose professional job includes understanding media ethics?

Why should I feel for a radio station that has previous on breaking media ethics and did nothing to educate their staff. And on this, the DJs would have been fully aware of this previous incident and this should have woken them up about media ethics and consequences even if the radio station didn't take the lead.

Their actions were premeditated, considered and had no regard for anyone else even after the fact. They had plenty of opportunity to stop at various stages but they pushed it to the absolute limit. It was selfish and involved clear deception of others.

There is high possibility they have broken the law during the process of this; they almost certainly have broken Australian broadcast regulations.

I don't get it. They need to take responsibility for their actions just like anyone else would do if they broke other rules/laws. Think drink driving. Think a boss who doesn't follow proper health and safety rules. There are no excuses. And its not beyond the realms of prediction; highly unlikely, but not totally unpredictable.

What you are suddenly saying is that suddenly because someone has died, and they are going to feel guilt over it, we should feel sorry for them despite the fact that at more than one point they could have considered the impact on others? Would they have felt guilty over it wrecking someones life in any other way? I somehow seriously doubt it.

Why on earth should I feel sorry for them? I don't get it. I'm yet to see one good reason.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sat 08-Dec-12 11:05:56

Excellent post redtoothbrush and one I 100% agree with.

Doinmummy Sat 08-Dec-12 11:10:05

I don't feel sorry for them at all.

Image if my friends husband was ill in hospital. I phone up pretending to be my friend to find out what's wrong with him. It's a terrible thing to do.

RooneyMara Sat 08-Dec-12 11:19:13

Not one single tiny ounce of sympathy for them.

I've always deplored this sort of shite and it happens a lot on the radio - like they can't think of anything better to broadcast.
It's completely unethical, very stupid and cruel and should never have been instigated.

I think it would have been very clear to all involved in this 'prank' that it was messing with people's jobs and their privacy - and in the light of that, common sense alone would have stopped anyone vaguely decent from doing it.

They can deal with the consequences how they like but it's not out problem to feel sorry for them. twats

Nancy66 Sat 08-Dec-12 11:20:45

no newspaper called for the nurse to be sacked that I am aware of.

I don't give a shit about them, tbh.

The danger with a prank is it can always backfire. It has backfired spectacularly and they should be suitably ashamed of themselves and be adult enough to shoulder any fallout from their stupid actions.

bakingaddict Sat 08-Dec-12 11:27:02

The one thing that I have been puzzled over in this saddening episode is that a private hospital dealing with one of the most famous and publicised women in the world doesn't seem to have had any policy for dealing with enquiries relating to her.

It seemed so easy for the DJ's to get through to Kate's nursing team, I would have thought that there would be special pass codes or all calls to be relayed through her protection detail with all nursing and medical staff treating her to fully debriefed on how to deal with incoming enquiries concerning Kate. It seems like the poor nurse suffered the ultimate consequence due to a lack of forward planning by the hospital

EasterEggHuntIsOver Sat 08-Dec-12 11:28:31

RedToothBrush - I completely agree with everything you said.

I have absolutely no sympathy for the DJs angry

TheCrackFox Sat 08-Dec-12 11:41:03

Great post RedToothBrush.

They broadcast this "prank" knowing full well that someone could have lost their job over it - in the middle of a huge recession. Hilarious, eh?

Everybody makes mistakes at work but it is highly unusual to have the world's media and several hundred million Internet users laughing at it. You would have to have the hide of a rhino not to be effected by this. I know I would be utterly distraught.

RedToothbrush Sat 08-Dec-12 11:44:14

bakingaddict, I put what I thought about your question on another thread:

The trouble with trying to set up a protocol for private calls in a hospital are this:

a) sheer number of people who need to be informed
b) the fact that training takes time and realistically there would be few patients needing this even in a private hospital
c) Kate was an unscheduled admittance which makes it harder to prepare staff
d) you would also need to inform anyone with a legitimate reason to contact Kate
e) trying to illicit medical details breaks the self enforced code of conduct by the British media

In my mind it does come down to the media. No one should have to go down to these lengths IN A HOSPITAL. No matter what the public thirst for the Royals is.

Taken in context after the incident of her topless, perhaps they should have done more, but on the other hand perhaps they felt that the boundaries had been made clearer and images tend to be the biggest seller rather than a story on the subject. And there are limits about how realistic this was in a busy, working hospital with a lot of other patients to deal with too.

seaofyou Sat 08-Dec-12 11:58:49

The DJs should be sacked for this! This thread is sick and needs to be removed considering the circumstances!

Lots of people on here and possibly FB and other sites were saying the poor woman was stupid for believing the crappy accents and should be sacked on here as well as possibly and other places.

She possibly was not suicidal but the thought the whole world was laughing at her thinking she was stupid and she did a job that well it isn't for the 'money' it is the love of wanting to help people as very caring...then felt she caused all this and some wanting her sack like the thread removed yesterday...yes could easily have driven her to suicide!
So the possibility of it was this one incident alone was possibly correct.

I just hope another life is not wasted on this stupid prank ie Duchess unborn baby from mum's stress of this too!

seeker Sat 08-Dec-12 12:07:17

I just think it was bizarre that somebody could just rising this hospital and say they wanted to ask about their granddaughter Kate and get put straight through. I think heads should be rolling at the hospital, frankly.

differentnameforthis Sat 08-Dec-12 12:07:21

Of course there is more to it from the nurse's point of view, of course there is. The point is, this should never have been part of her problems

Spot on, Morloth!

zeeboo Sat 08-Dec-12 12:09:39

No, what they did was pathetic and cruel to Kate never mind the nurse who took the call and I hope they live with this for the rest of their lives.
You seriously think its ok to prank a young girl in hospital with her first baby, experiencing pregnancy problems and waste the time of the hospital staff to boot? My 12 yr old DS thought it was pathetically childish ffs!
They couldn't have foreseen the death but they could have easily seen that it wasn't ever going to be a good or helpful action and would involve people being embarrassed and humiliated and Kate's privacy yet again breached.

RooneyMara Sat 08-Dec-12 12:12:23

Whatever her reasons for taking her own life, and whether there were others as well as this, the fact that she has has neatly solved the problem for the hospital over whether to keep her on or not.

And possibly sidestepped the issue over whether anyone else's job should now be considered, as surely this is enough damage in itself and should not be further compounded

I hope that the hospital did not handle it in a way likely to exascerbate what this poor woman was already going through

It looks as though she was living many miles from her family

I am very sorry for her children.

scottishmummy Sat 08-Dec-12 12:15:12

don't feel sorry for dj at all
but they couldn't have expected this tragic result
my thoughts are with ms saldanha family and children.so v sad.hope they are supported

SetPhasersTaeMalkie Sat 08-Dec-12 12:17:02

You 'hope' they live with this for the rest of their lives? What a strange hope zeeboo.

Of course they will live with this for the rest of their lives. Something that they did has led to the death of another human being. Whether it was 'meant' or not is immaterial, it has happened. I think it can be assumed that without the phone call, Jacintha Saldanha would still be alive and her children would still have a mother.

I do feel sorry for the Australian DJs. They may have done something incredibly ill thought out and stupid but by God they are paying for it now.

This does not take away from the sadness I feel for the nurse who has taken her own life and her family.

However I have enough compassion in me to spare some for the two DJs.

RooneyMara Sat 08-Dec-12 12:17:50

I imagine the DJs didn't expect to be put through, or believed, as the accents they put on were indeed shite.

That's so far from the point though. 'Publicity stunts' were always a crap idea.

BoreOfWhabylon Sat 08-Dec-12 12:28:57

I entirely agree with RedToothbrush's excellent post, especially this bit:

We wouldn't have heard the headlines about the nurse who had a breakdown or had quit her job over this. It wouldn't have been important that it had recked her life or career. She'd be forgotten and left to get on with it by the press. There would be no holding the radio station accountable for how much they had destroyed someone's life. And she'd still be painted as "letting down the royals".

Let's not forget that another nurse was also hoaxed - the one who was on the ward. We've heard nothing about her, but I'm willing to bet she's not exactly feeling chipper about the whole thing, not least because her colleague is now dead. If I were her I'm pretty sure I'd never be able to face working as a nurse again.

So, OP, YABU.

PoppyAmex Sat 08-Dec-12 12:37:46

This is the same radio station that forced a "scared" 14 yr old, to confess live on air, that she had been raped at the age of 12!

They are vile.

I was living in Sydney at the time and I remember this - they had the girl's mother live at the same time and the poor mother got to hear it first there.

They really bullied the girl until she "revealed" it.

VicarInaTutuDrankSantasSherry Sat 08-Dec-12 12:39:49

yabu.

not least because the male DJ had form for being a twat on air - after he had had a 14yr old girl admit live on air that she had been raped he asked her if that was her only sexual experience. gobsmacking.

there is a very fine art to prank calling. there is a line between funny and monstrous. they crossed it, and not for the first time in their careers.

i dont feel a jot of sympathy for either of them or the station. They need to live with what they have caused, foreseeable or not.

SetPhasersTaeMalkie Sat 08-Dec-12 12:43:33

It is not the same DJ, Vicar but the same radio station.

The DJs in question are called Mel Greig and Michael Christian and the DJ who 'interviewed' the 14 year old girl is called Kyle Sandilands.

SirBoobAlot Sat 08-Dec-12 12:46:13

No sympathy from me. The whole situation is utterly horrible, and it should not have come about, because they shouldn't have made that call.

The male especially was a prize twat to a young girl a few years ago.

SetPhasersTaeMalkie Sat 08-Dec-12 12:48:27

He wasn't SirBoobAlot. It is the same station but a different DJ.

No sympathy at all from me, they deserve everything they get.

VicarInaTutuDrankSantasSherry Sat 08-Dec-12 12:54:47

oh right i stand corrected, i thought it was the same dj. still - shows the ethos of the station in a good light that 3 of their djs are twats.

still no sympathy for them. or the station. i hope they lose all their sponsers.

SetPhasersTaeMalkie Sat 08-Dec-12 13:00:01

Undoubtedly they will lose their sponsors, it has already started.

The radio station are clearly highly irresponsible and have been sanctioned on a number of occasions.

rhondajean Sat 08-Dec-12 13:01:17

I actually have a huge deal of sympathy for them.

I hate this type of joke but it s very common. Real radio for example do it every morning.

They could not possibly have foreseen that it would lead to this result. And as far as I am concerned, the fault lay with the hospital in not having the correct procedures and security protocols to ensure the hoax call didn't go through.

A woman is dead, a family had lost their mother, the DHs careers are in tatters, the livelihoods of others at the radio station must be in question due to advertisers withdrawing, and it's all because someone said a young woman had an uneventful night and was about to get washed? Is it jsut me thinking the whole thing is wildly disproportionate?

SetPhasersTaeMalkie Sat 08-Dec-12 13:02:26

I agree rhondajean.

rhondajean Sat 08-Dec-12 13:02:55

Oh and I would see protocol Iin this case being easy - all calls passed to the secret service to deal with?

SetPhasersTaeMalkie Sat 08-Dec-12 13:03:13

However I do think the radio station must take responsibility too.

QuickLookBusy Sat 08-Dec-12 13:06:04

Excellent post RedToothBrush

I've read that advertisers are already pulling out, so I wouldn't be surprised if the station is still going in a weeks time. It's also been said on the news that they did break laws concerning recording someone without their permission.

QuickLookBusy Sat 08-Dec-12 13:09:18

Rhonda-"Is it jsut me thinking the whole thing is wildly disproportionate?"

What's disproportionate? The poor woman killing herself? The response to a poor woman killing herself? confused

Morloth Sat 08-Dec-12 13:14:15

The station will bounce back, they have done worse and recovered. Our regulators are pathetic.

Advertisers seem to drop people during the noisy bit and then come crawling back, they did with Sandilands and that other prize twat Jones (another station), Australian radio needs shaking until its teeth rattle.

BaublesJanson Sat 08-Dec-12 13:17:01

*But these pranks have been going on for such a long time and those DJs could not have predicted such a result and are going to have to live with it for the rest of their lives.

I seldom post on this type of thread and confess I haven't read all but something stuck me in the op. just because this sort of prank has happenede before DOES NOT MAKE IT OK. Pranks are often funny to the bully and not the victim. Think iPod it like that. Someone was having a laugh, very publicly, as someone else's expense. That is never ever ok. It is about time that high profile people are pulled up on demonstrating bullying behaviour and that we as a society crack down on it. They could not have predicted the situation that has occurred but that could have predicted that winding someone up to get a laugh is totally not acceptable and is bullying and nasty in its nature.

How often have you heard the bully say "I was ony joking". Itis a stock excuse I'm afraid.

Totallymum Sat 08-Dec-12 13:18:00

The people involved in the prank should absolutely hang their heads in shame. Regardless of the nurse's state of mind, the fact is that the pranksters led her to breach patient confidentiality, something very serious indeed that is against nurse's code of conduct.

In other words, she may well have been hauled up for a hearing at the NMC, struck off and never been able to work as a nurse again. What with the mocking in the media and the fact that the patient happened to be a royal, she must have felt so many terrible emotions; guilt, professional failure, anger (at herself), and shame. Her life would have been irreparably damaged.

It is beyond disgraceful that people try to get information about sick people for laughs, royal or not. The perpetrators of the prank call deserve everything coming to them.

So yes, YABVVVU.

Nancyclancy Sat 08-Dec-12 13:19:38

I feel sorry for them and her family and Kate and William. Yes the DJ's were stupid but cannot be held responsible for the nurses death.
It was the media who YET AGAIN brought humiliation to an innocent person.

How did we know Kate was admitted to hospital? The media!!! How did we know she had hyperemesis? The media!!! Why did Kate feel she had to announce her pregnancy? The media!!! We knew all her bloody movements because of the sodding media!!!

Nancy66 Sat 08-Dec-12 13:23:05

Nancy - the media reported that security had been breached. A legitimate news story. The bullying and abuse that followed was mostly on Facebook, Twitter and sites like Mumsnet.

MrsDeVere Sat 08-Dec-12 13:24:28

I do not feel sorry for them.
I do not wish them dead either.

When do we start expecting people to think about the consequences of their actions before they do something?

They could not have known that someone would take their life but they WOULD have known (if they gave it a moment's though) that someone could lose their job or that they would embarrass someone or cause distress to a sick, pregnant woman and her family.

This would not have happened a just a few years ago. It would have been beyond the pale to interfere in such a public way with a pregnancy, let alone one that was in trouble.

I know that the press have always been sneaky about getting info but these two child-adults make the News of the Screws look positively restrained.

Why did they do it?
To gain publicity and advance their careers.

Or more likely and more worrying, they just didnt think about why they were doing it - they just did it.

I do not agree that this nurse must have had existing MH issues.
She may have been a sensitive person with a strong sense of decency and morality.
She might have felt that she had failed her family and her employers and even the royal family!

People can temporarily tip over into a state of such distress that they can only see one way out of it. It doesn't mean they are mentally ill.

What a huge burden for someone to carry. That poor woman. Its just heartbreaking.

Those DJs deserve to lose their jobs. So what if they end up working in their local supermarket? Its not the end of the world is it?

EnjoyResponsibly Sat 08-Dec-12 13:31:30

This poor woman's children will be able to hear the way in which she was humiliated, for a laugh, forever.

Which is exactly how long I think these radio resented and the bosses that are now protecting them should be ashamed of themselves.

They may not have foreseen such an outcome, but lets face it if they hadn't done it these kids may still have their mother.

bakingaddict Sat 08-Dec-12 13:33:31

But redtoothbrush it is a private hospital and as such must have had celebrities before, it seems cavalier not to have some kind of protocol in place for dealing with people who command a great deal of media interest

To inform her nursing staff be it on the morning of her impending arrival or after she had been admitted that any incoming calls regarding Kate to be put through to her protection detail who could then vet the call, I assume she had some kind of protection sat outside or down the corridor and that she wasn't left unguarded in this hospital is in imo not too tall an order

I'm not excusing the behaviour of the DJs but would have expected more security for the Duchess in this vunreable situation, because after all the sad reality is that she is a target for intrusive aspects of the media both here and abroad. A more pragmatic approach might have benefited Jacintha and not exposed an innocent HCP to the insidious side of the press and media and left children motherless this Christmas

flippinada Sat 08-Dec-12 13:34:45

The thread is rather poor taste but you can't stop people expressing their opinions.

I do wish people who keep pronouncing, with entirely misplaced and bumptious confidence, that Ms Saldanha "must have had" mental health problems would pack it in.

There's no must have about it.

BandersnatchCummerbund Sat 08-Dec-12 13:39:13

It was a stupid joke, that was all, which had an outcome they could never have foreseen.

I blame the whole circus surrounding this pregnancy, media and otherwise. If everyone calmed the fuck down about it then this poor lady need never have been made to feel so disproportionately upset about her mistake in the first place. The cynic in me suspects that for the hospital authorities, and/or the palace authorities, this will have been experienced as the end of the world (not to mention the prurient press excitement whipping it up), which will have been passed on to the nurse. It should never have been allowed to reach this stage. This is not the 1500s: yes, it is an event of national investment, but in practical terms the outcome of this pregnancy does not alter the fate of this country whatsoever. A quiet announcement followed by nine months of privacy for Kate until the birth would be the appropriate reaction. It was never worth somebody's life.

scottishmummy Sat 08-Dec-12 13:39:16

no one on mn knows ms saldanha previous or current medical history
so idle speculation about it or motives is poor taste
her children have lost mum in run unto christmas

natation Sat 08-Dec-12 13:42:05

MrsdeVere has said it all already for me. The DJs need no sympathy and I hope their consciences have been awakened as they obviously weren't at the time they did this prank, same goes for those who knew in advance at the radio station - it was reported they'd consulted the station's lawyers before broadcasting.

I am a bit dumbfounded that even a single poster here feels sorry for bullies who don't think about the consequences of their bullying.

Speculating that the nurse must have MH issues is in very bad taste too, it might or might not be true, but the speculation is just another form for me of hurting the nurse's family.

I feel immense sympathy for all those who were victims of this sick joke, the nurse's family, the other hospital staff, the pregnant lady and her family.

It is beyond disgraceful that people try to get information about sick people for laughs, royal or not. The perpetrators of the prank call deserve everything coming to them.

Really? The DJs are the subject of death threats from around the globe. Do you really think they "deserve" that? What if one of these charmers decides to act on their threats or the DJs are driven to the same desperate measures as the poor nurse (hardly inconceivable)? Will they deserve THAT too?

SetPhasersTaeMalkie Sat 08-Dec-12 14:00:17

I agree PumpkinPositive - where will this all end?

The DJs are said to be in a 'fragile state' themselves, and no wonder.

It does not negate the sympathy expressed for the nurse and her family to have some compassion for the two people at the receiving end of a tidal wave of abuse.

cornflowers Sat 08-Dec-12 14:00:45

"I blame the whole circus surrounding this pregnancy, media and otherwise. If everyone calmed the fuck down about it then this poor lady need never have been made to feel so disproportionately upset about her mistake in the first place."

This.

Nancy66 Sat 08-Dec-12 14:01:15

of course they don't deserve everything coming to them. They took part in something that backfired badly.

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Sat 08-Dec-12 14:02:57

The DJs are said to be in a 'fragile state' themselves, and no wonder.

Well, perhaps they will have learnt something from this and not play stupid pranks again.

TheCrackFox Sat 08-Dec-12 14:06:48

"But redtoothbrush it is a private hospital and as such must have had celebrities before, it seems cavalier not to have some kind of protocol in place for dealing with people who command a great deal of media interest"

Maybe the hospital does have protocols in place but the nurse made a mistake.

Everyone makes mistakes at work but most people are not internationally mocked for them.

YoucanringmySleighBells Sat 08-Dec-12 14:10:37

Personally I do not think 'prank' adequetely describes what happened in this case.
They called up a HOSPITAL and tried to get personal information about a woman have a very difficult early pregnancy. What if there had been a change for the worse in the case of mother and aby and this was revealed on the telephone!! They had NO RIGHT to call a hospital looking for personal information and then broadcasting it.

This is so far beyond a prank and I think they are accountable to some degree as is the radio station itself.I don't feel sorry for them - no matter how much I was being paid I would not dare do something so invasive of another person's privacy.

EnjoyResponsibly Sat 08-Dec-12 14:11:02

They didn't "take part", they instigated and enacted the prank. They hit gold when his poor woman fell for their prank.

HouseOfTinsel Sat 08-Dec-12 14:38:27

It seems clear to me that the 'prank' wasn't thought through by the DJs because they never thought in a million years that they would get put through.

The fault lies in the decision to broadcast it, BUT I think the hospital is just as much at fault for putting their nurses in the firing line - making them field calls from the media (or any nutter who cares to ring up the hospital) when they should have been allowed to get on with nursing their patients.

wannaBe Sat 08-Dec-12 14:54:25

So people think they deserve all they get? Death threats etc have apparently been sent to them - justified you think? hmm two wrongs don't make a right.

What people have to ask themselves is why these prank calls happen in the first place, and the reason is simple - it's because people find them entertaining. It's all about supply and demand.

How many people on this thread who are now frothing at the mouth watch Jeremy Kyle, for instance? The concept is no different, other than the fact that his victims are sometimes willing participants, but many of them clearly do have mental health issues, and yet we are seemingly still content for these individuals to be used for public entertainment fodder...

While people gain entertainment from these types of shows they will continue to be produced...

Totallymum Sat 08-Dec-12 14:54:33

Pumpkin, maybe I should have worded my thoughts better: death threats and nastiness etc are unacceptable towards the people involved.

I do think that losing their jobs, and the distress they are feeling only scratches the surface of what the nurse would have faced had she lived. I want to get it across that breaching patient confidentiality is a serious and sackable offence and she may have been struck off the nursing register altogether. The fact that she clearly took it so much to heart shows how very seriously it is taken in healthcare.

To echo other posters, it has nothing to do with it whether she had mental health problems or not.

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Sat 08-Dec-12 15:01:46

I don't think they deserve death threats but they deserve absolutely no sympathy whatsoever. There is a world of difference between "pranking" an innocent party when, at the very least, it could have lost them their job, and someone choosing to appear on Jeremy bloody Kyle. (not that I've ever watched it)

BegoniaBampot Sat 08-Dec-12 15:12:17

Yes but the DJ's are getting the brunt of this backlash. The lawyers and station bosses who ok'd it and should have thought it through more are getting nowhere near the same hate. The media and those making a bigger thing of it also have a part to play. It really wasn't that big a story but they ran with it and milked it for all they could get.

wannaBe Sat 08-Dec-12 15:15:55

of course it's the same. the only difference is that this became an international story not because of the station but because of the media. And there were plenty on mn prepared to talk about it and to call for the sacking of the nurse (and in fact it was the other one people were calling to be sacked).

And the thing is that if someone committed suicide after appearing on Jeremy kyle no-one would actually care because they're just plebs, right?

If this was a one off fuck up by the station I would have more sympathy but based on their history they should hang everyone who authorised or took part in that prank out to dry.

Sorry but thats how as a daughter of a nurse I feel.

hackmum Sat 08-Dec-12 15:26:00

HouseofTinsel: "It seems clear to me that the 'prank' wasn't thought through by the DJs because they never thought in a million years that they would get put through.

The fault lies in the decision to broadcast it."

I think that's true. They probably thought they'd have some fun with the receptionist saying something like "Can I check who's calling?" or asking for a password or something, never dreaming they would be put through. And yes, they shouldn't have broadcast it - I imagine it contravenes Australian data protection legislation, for one thing. So the producer is at fault, too.

I dislike pranks and hoaxes intensely. I imagine that people who are brash and in their 20s and work in the media aren't particularly reflective or thoughtful people, so I don't suppose they imagined for one moment that their actions would have the consequences they did. I also think that tabloid papers are very cruel to people on a daily basis and yet have somehow been allowed to get away with it (and look at all the wittering about "freedom of speech" in the wake of Leveson).

Perhaps people will take time to pause and think about the consequences of hurtful words and actions. But given the way these two DJs are now being hounded for what they did, it looks as if that's not going to happen.

hackmum Sat 08-Dec-12 15:27:48

One more thing. I hesitate to say this because it's speculation, but the nurse hadn't been publicly named, and apparently the hospital management had been supportive (at least that's what they were saying). Is it possible that a media organisation was threatening to name her?

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Sat 08-Dec-12 15:49:50

of course it's the same

One: person made to look foolish without any sort of consent or knowledge
Other" person goes onto a show they know will make them look foolish.

Yes, I can see that they are exactly the same thing hmm

laptopdancer Sat 08-Dec-12 16:03:23

Nice to see the headline in my local paper back home
"We didnt break rules: says radio boss".

They are reporting the station is confident they didnt do anything wrong.

VicarInaTutuDrankSantasSherry Sat 08-Dec-12 16:45:25

arse covering will be the name of the game now then. whose rules did they think they havent broken?
so someone died and they are worried about whether they broke any rules?
jesus.

I do not feel the slightest bit sorry for this reason purely,

After a backlash before the death the male DJ facebooked...

"the only thing wrong with this prank is that I can never beat this, after one week in my career I have peaked"

Utter twat

flippinada Sat 08-Dec-12 16:51:14

Yes, it says much for the station involved that their main concern at the moment seems to be covering their arses.

Ameybee Sat 08-Dec-12 16:51:47

I feel sorry for them because they obviously never intended anyone to get Hurt & its a lot to live with on your conscience.

However I think we live in a world now where people think its ok to do what they like without thinking of possible consequences and that is not right! They invaded Kate's privacy on a basic level by gaining access to confidential information and that in itself is wrong - not a prank IMO.

My thoughts are mainly with the nurses family but I do feel for Kate and wills and the DJ's on some level.

VicarInaTutuDrankSantasSherry Sat 08-Dec-12 17:01:16

whistling really? peaked too soon then i hope and now facing obscurity. I hope they absorb some of what their prank has caused.

the radio station are obviously devoid of conscience to put out a statement saying they didnt break any rules. what about common decency and morality?

they have certainly breached patient confidentiality.

flippinada Sat 08-Dec-12 17:03:36

Yep he posted that on Facebook.

That will haunt him for the rest of his life - at least, it should do if he has a conscience.

aladdinsane Sat 08-Dec-12 17:05:28

Don't feel sorry for them at all
I think the royal part is irrelevant I hate all the prank stuff including knob Jonathan Ross and his stupid mate
The poor nurse was thrust into the public domain and these idiots were bragging about it on twitter
Its time idiots like this realised there are real people on the receiving end of their 'pranks'
Not all these people can cope with international notoriety

Narked Sat 08-Dec-12 17:15:23

The radio station do this kind of stuff all the time. The DJs concerned have done it time and again. If you keep doing this - publically humiliating people - you're going to cause great emotional distress to some of them. It's not a leap. If you phone a hospital to try to get confidential patient information you are quite likely to cause someone to lose their job or, at the least, feel humiliated at work. Again, not a leap.

The station has been reprimanded before. They don't care. It brings in good ratings.

Saying it was unforseeable is totally disingenous. The suicide probably was, but they didn't think about any possible consequences to the individuals they were calling, because it wasn't relevant to them.

To be honest I would have been more forgiving if top boss had come out and said we are really sorry, we will look into it, we have sent an apology to hospital and condolences to family,

Not " well we didnt do anything illegal ...."

SetPhasersTaeMalkie Sat 08-Dec-12 17:25:30

The boss of the radio station expressed his 'deep sorrow' over the death and said that was his main concern.

The 'not having done anything illegal' was part of a statement and quite a long one at that. If you watch it you can see that he is not dismissing the seriousness of what happened.

Catsdontcare Sat 08-Dec-12 17:35:15

Not one ounce of sympathy for them. There were so many opportunities for them to have stopped this. It could possibly have been described as a prank if they had stopped at fooling the first nurse, the moment their call was put through they should have hung up like a bunch a giggling kids. BUT they chose to take it further and further.

The problem is when lawyers checked it over before it was aired they considered only the possible implications for the radio station NOT those on the receiving end.

If you watch it you can see that he is not dismissing the seriousness of what happened.

I actually thought he was having difficulty getting through his statement. But of course, the Daily Mail would prefer to run with the far more sensationalist "It's my staff wot are the victims here" headline (something he never said!)

All this rabid foaming at the mouth with respect to the DJs will help no-one. There has already been one needless death too many associated with this prank. I only hope there are no more deaths to come.

It would be nice to think the radio station will at the very least meet the costs of this woman's funeral and make a hefty contribution towards the upkeep/education of her two orphaned children.

TandB Sat 08-Dec-12 17:41:40

I have no sympathy for them.

As I said on the first thread, they decided that a woman ill in hospital, worried aout her baby and dealing with media intrusion, was funny. That was an utterly cuntish thing to do. When they decided to broadcast it, they must have been aware that they could get someone into serious trouble. No, they could not have foreseen the nurse's death, but I don't think they can realistically defend their actions by saying 'well we only intended to intrude on a sick woman's privacy and we only thought someone might be disciplined. We didn't think any one would die."

If you pushed someone over as a joke, and they hit their head and died, the law wouldn't accept 'well, I realised they might break an arm, but I didn't think they would actually die' as a defence.

Catsdontcare Sat 08-Dec-12 17:42:45

I agree though that the dj's are not solely at fault here, there are plenty of people who could have and should intervened and put a halt to it all.

traipsingalong Sat 08-Dec-12 17:46:44

I know the hospital have said they were supportive, but I'm not entirely sure that is true. Something makes me wonder if the two nurses (Jacintha and the one she put the call through to) were called to task over it, and maybe nurse number 2 tried to pass the 'blame' (although I don't actually think either of them were to 'blame') by saying that she only gave out the details because Jacintha had put the call through, and she would have expected Jacintha to have vetted the call first.... Maybe the hospital wasn't supportive and, as Totallymum says, it would have been considered a very serious offence. And Jacintha was obviously very, very proud of her role at the hospital, nursing Royals, and when you've been brought up to have the very highest respect for the Royal Family, without recent training, how could the hospital have expected her to question 'the Queen' before putting her through? Her automatic reaction would have been to say exactly what she did say - yes ma'am.

Sadly for this poor lady, Kate's admission to hospital was very sudden. Had it been a planned admission, such as for the birth of the baby, then the hospital would have had prior notice and put all sorts of security and training measures in place to stop exactly these kind of things from happening.

I don't blame anyone in this actually. I do think the Australian DJs are a couple of thoughtless vulgar twats, but I don't suppose they imagined they would cause the death of anyone.

I think it's just terribly, terribly sad and someone, somewhere, has not been kind to this lady.

Catsdontcare Sat 08-Dec-12 17:46:47

Indeed kunfupanda. There was a recent incident locally where teens were pratting about putting nails under people's car wheels. The end result was one woman's tyre bursting whilst she was driving at speed and she died.

I don't expect for one moment those teens understood the implications of what they were actually doing but were they responsible for a strangers death? Yes they were.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Sat 08-Dec-12 17:48:23

I rather think the whole sorry episode demonstrates that the public and media obsession with the cambridges is reaching unhealthy levels. The fact is she isn't even 12 weeks' pregnant - what woman in that position wouldn't prefer to keep it confidential, but of course that isn;t possible for her. Then we have this intrusive and tasteless prank - and horrors, the sainted Kate has had her privacy violated! and this poor lady feels so responsible she's pushed over the edge. It's time to get a grip - these are ordinary, not very interesting people who are essentially there to perfom a certain constitutional function. we don;t need to be this interested in them. We all have far more intersting things and people in our lives I'm sure.

I have just found it to watch it, I do not honestly feel he was struggling to get through it because he was upset, I think he is absoloutley crapping himself for the future of the station/his career and what possible charges he could face.

SetPhasersTaeMalkie Sat 08-Dec-12 17:59:25

I thought it was a reasonable response given the circumstances.

rhondajean Sat 08-Dec-12 18:06:55

Oh for heavens sake is someone actually comparing placing nails under cars to this?

Has the world lost all sense of proportion when it comes to Kate and Wills?

I have just found it to watch it, I do not honestly feel he was struggling to get through it because he was upset, I think he is absoloutley crapping himself for the future of the station/his career and what possible charges he could face.

I'm sure there was an element of that as well. wink

I actually found the content of the Andrew Sachs-gate call more distasteful than this one, although the consequences were obviously less severe (I do seem to remember Sachs became estranged from his daughter and granddaughter as a result?)

we don;t need to be this interested in them. We all have far more intersting things and people in our lives I'm sure.

A straw poll of family, friends and work colleagues has so far failed to reveal anyone who gives a Castlemaine XXXX about the Royal family. But then, I live in Scotland...

clam Sat 08-Dec-12 18:14:00

I don't feel sorry for them, no, as anyone who seriously thinks "pranks" like these are remotely funny is a twat.

BegoniaBampot Sat 08-Dec-12 18:30:26

I think the media are obsessed with the royals, not the public.

BoneyBackJefferson Sat 08-Dec-12 18:35:08

I wonder how many people excuse bullies in the same way.

Its just a bit of fun etc.

besides they must have known that there was a good chance of the nurses being severely disciplined

The fact that we have a thread here where some posters think the DJ's deserve sympathy speaks volumes given there was a thread a day or so ago calling for the nurses sacking.

I think this is a good example of the disdain and lack of respect for front line health care staff.

People were shouting for her to be sacked, but yet now offering the DJ's sympathy?

farandawaysheran Sat 08-Dec-12 19:18:23

midnight you beat me to it, there was indeed a thread calling for the poor woman to be sacked.

Let's hope she never read it or... Oh no, that's right the judge and jury have changed their minds and now the Pantomime Baddy is All Practical Jokers.

Not station management or legal team or all the millions of people who actually listened to it. Many more than once.

I hope that none of the frightening judges in this thread never watch you've been framed, pretty much all shite on YouTube or chuckle at anyone who unwittingly makes a public twit of themselves.

I read this and all I can hear is 'burn them, burn them.'

Do any of you really believe this was more sinister than a silly prank that had unforeseen and horrific consequences?

Catsdontcare Sat 08-Dec-12 19:19:35

Rhondajean your missing my point and I am possibly the least interested person in the world when it comes to the royals.

I think if the media wants to make jabs at the royals that's one thing but shitting over other people to do it is another.

Chandon Sat 08-Dec-12 19:27:38

Don t feel sorry for them.

They are famous now, they will make some tv appearance showing their caring sensitive side. They may do some stuff for charitee.

Then they will start cashing in on being household names, go to the jungle, or something.

Then an exclusive interview about " my guilt" for lots of money.

Then they will lose weight or gain weight.

Then they will start launching books, diet books and a perfume called "notorious".

Etc.

Bet you

lovelyladuree Sat 08-Dec-12 19:30:14

She wasn't 'working a switchboard'- the phones were diverted as it was during the night and she was the unlucky person to pick the phone up. YABU - unless you yourself are an Australian DJ - in which case YABVU. They were out to get an easy, cheap laugh and I hate that kind of thing. I hope they both rot in hell, just for making the call.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Sat 08-Dec-12 19:31:12

Heh heh Pumpkin. Do something about your lousy climate and I may move there.

rhondajean Sat 08-Dec-12 19:32:06

But don't you see the breach of confidentiality happened to Kate and if anyone has a right to be annoyed about it it is her.

She has made no formal complaint.

So actually the whole fiasco is down to other people tweeting gossiping etc about it and I'm actually starting to think there are a lot of people who are guilty of being involved in this poor woman's death.

I have never thought she should have been sacked, I was a bit surprised though that a nurse was working switchboard?

rhondajean Sat 08-Dec-12 19:32:42

Sorry lovely has answered my query about Thr switchboard while I was typing.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Sat 08-Dec-12 19:38:09

"I hope they both rot in hell, just for making the call."
I really think there are enough people out there who set out wilfully to cause harm to make this statement insanely disproportionate. If people whose stupid pranks go awry have to rot in hell, what punishment do you reserve for those who intend to take life?

I hope they both rot in hell, just for making the call.

Would you like some coffee to go with all that froth?

pigletmania Sat 08-Dec-12 19:41:01

If those two idiots had not played that prank this lady would probably be alive. She probably felt a deep shame, tat she has dishonoured her profession and it probably knocked her self esteem for six. No they did not kill her but they were indirectly involved

farandawaysheran Sat 08-Dec-12 19:44:00

Karlos!

Exactly, like they really wanted this to happen?

I wish you could all hear yourselves, it is terrifying.

That could be anyone's daft brother or daughter doing what people do every single day, with no worse consequence than an unamused sniff.

Two days ago half of you wanted her sacked and suddenly there are RIP threads like people actually knew the poor lady.

It's not unlike the Diana hysteria on a smaller scale.

pigletmania Sat 08-Dec-12 19:44:43

As tere was a member of the Royal family security sould have been much tighter, it exposed a massive hole in the security tbh.

pigletmania Sat 08-Dec-12 19:45:24

The hospital shoud have done much more to brief the staff

RedToothbrush Sat 08-Dec-12 19:46:30

Yes I do believe it was more than a silly prank. BECAUSE THEY WERE SEEKING TO MAKE MONEY FROM IT and these consequences might not have been forseeable but lifechanging and devastating consequences WERE predictable and the effects on those involved would never have been brought to light under normal circumstances which is the very sad part. It was only because it was this extreme that anyone is condemning the DJs and radio station and looking at the appalling position they put the nurse in question in. No one would be taking a long hard (overdue) look in the mirror over stunts like this otherwise.

Their behaviour breaks the most basic of media ethics you are taught at GSCE level and was obtained by deception rather than by legitimate news gathering methods and was completely frivilous.

The British press is frankly vile a lot of the time and it makes me despair about how they frequently misrepresent individuals or shit on them from a great height, but I simply don't imagine this being carried out by a British media organisation - especially given the Royals were involved because there is a self imposed code of conduct when it comes to the royals by all our newspapers which is internationally known about. So to find this was vetted by the radio station and lawyers prior to going out is even more appalling.

These people are professionals. Except they didn't behave in a professional manner. So thats about the limit of the extent of my sympathy. If you want a privileged job in such a competitive industry and you are prepared to sell your soul and sink to this level to achieve your career goals, then you know the risk you are taking and how it could easily backfire.

The radio station has been doing this for sometime and given its track record seems to lack the most basic level of understanding of ethics. So quite frankly, if it puts the entire radio station off the air by getting its broadcasting licence revoked I doubt I would loose a second of sleep over it, as there are so many ways to entertain in an imaginative way if you can be bothered to make efforts. This is just cheap and lazy broadcasting (and using the example of You've been framed is quite interesting as I believe its one of the cheapest prime time Saturday night shows thats ever been produced in comparison with its contemporaries)

Put simply I think Sydney (and indeed the rest of the world) would be better off with very basic ethics being followed in the media for a list of reasons as long as your arm, without being anything approaching a Mary Whitehouse or being pro-censorship. I'm simply anti-fuckwittery. Which this quite clearly falls into the category of.

(And I don't watch any prank shows and hate things like you've been framed for precisely this very reason and my interest in this actually has very little to do with the royals; I've had an interest in media ethics dating back to my teens.)

flippinada Sat 08-Dec-12 19:47:16

Yeah farandaway...except it isn't anything like that at all.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Sat 08-Dec-12 19:47:27

This lady's suicide was not in any way a forseeable consequence of the prank. People are not generally held accountable, either in law or moral principle, for consequences of ther actions which could not be foreseen. I really hope none of you from the baying-for-blood brigade ever end up on a jury.

pigletmania Sat 08-Dec-12 19:47:48

This is the first thread about this thatihave responded too on here

pigletmania Sat 08-Dec-12 19:50:59

Not baying for blood just stating the truth, if these two jokers had not played that prank te woman might still be alive

farandawaysheran Sat 08-Dec-12 19:52:56

I don't agree these consequences were predictable, Red. But I think your points about lazy journalism were spot on. Because that's what sells.

I think British journalism is guilty of the same silly sensationalism.

I only listen to Radio 4 and I heard that nurse put the call through at least three times.

So if we want blood, shouldn't we be looking a little closer to home?

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Sat 08-Dec-12 19:54:56

That statement is asinine. It means nothing. There are any number of actions which may be causative of a death but one is only morally responsible for it if one intended, foresaw or could reasonably have foreseen that consequence. If I throw a stone in the sea and thereby cause a tsunami on the other side of the world (hypothetical example) am I responsible for the resulting deaths?

farandawaysheran Sat 08-Dec-12 19:55:24

Sorry piglet, guilty of large tarring brush. Just truly shocked at the knee-jerk witch-hunt vitriol being directed at two silly arses whose prank went fatally wrong.

MrsDeVere Sat 08-Dec-12 19:58:19

Why are you assuming that everyone who thinks the DJs should be held accountable for their actions was on the thread about the nurse? confused

I didn't even see it.

I thought the DJs were total nobs for giggling about a sick pregnant woman.
Their actions contributed to the death of a woman.
I cannot see how that is a controversial view.

Our prisons are full of people who did 'stupid things' without thinking about the consequences.
One punch, too many drinks, lifting that purse just sitting there, chucking a fire extinguisher off a building..

People do idiotic things all the time. Sometimes those idiotic things lead to terrible things happening to other people.

What do we do about that? Let them off because they didn't mean it?

They cannot be bought to trial for the death of this woman and I don't think that they should (although the relatives may think they should) but they must be sanctioned in some way surely?

Losing their job is appropriate. They would have had no clue that someone would die but they MUST have known that someone could lose their job. They were prepared to take the risk that it would happen to someone else - they should be prepared that it could happen to them.

RedToothbrush Sat 08-Dec-12 19:58:47

It WAS very forseeable that a prank of this nature and attention that the radio station were actively seeking would put a person in a position that would severely damage their mental health.

I think there are very health and safety laws on preventing this from happening to members of staff within your own organisation. For a reason.

But its apparently acceptable to wilfully put someone who doesn't work for you in that position for your own financial gain.

I do feel that if there is a danger that this could have endangered the health of someone involved then there is a case to be answered. Its only because the most tragic of consequences has occurred, that we are even talking about how this has very clear repercussions for an individuals mental health. I personally feel that if this had, had caused severe depression or anxiety but not suicide then the same thing is true and I do believe this is very forseeable and preventable.

Kate was the target, but she was no means the only victim and that it was obvious from the word go. And there were countless opportunities to say enough is enough, but it was pushed to the limits and the DJ's comments after the fact show the complete lack of regard for others.

Leaving the awful outcome outside for one moment. I think there is a point to be raised regrading the DJ's lack of respect for a hospital, and the staff and patients within it.

People are admitted to hospital because they are ill. Health care professionals work hard to deliver good care and to try and ensure the best outcomes for patents.

Is that really the sort of environment that should be targeted within a prank? Does it not un

Leaving the awful outcome outside for one moment. I think there is a point to be raised regrading the DJ's lack of respect for a hospital, and the staff and patients within it.

People are admitted to hospital because they are ill. Health care professionals work hard to deliver good care and to try and ensure the best outcomes for patents.

Is that really the sort of environment that should be targeted within a prank? Does it not imply a total lack or respect for the patient well being and authority of the staff?

I can remember the days when the public were petrified to try and visit a ward out of visiting hours. Now we have the press amped outside a hospital and DJ's making stupid calls, wasting everyone's time.

Where did this total lack of respect come from?

It WAS very forseeable that a prank of this nature and attention that the radio station were actively seeking would put a person in a position that would severely damage their mental health.

Sorry, disagree. The DJs never even thought the call would be put through. There is a certainly a case for saying, after the event, lets not broadcast this, but that decision ultimately rests with the radio station and not the DJs themselves.

In this case, the nurses were never named, the Royal Family did not make a complaint (Prince Charles himself was even joking about it the day before the tragedy!), and if we accept the hospital's word for it, there was no question of any disciplinary action being taken.

The victim was only tentatively connected to the prank as the person who put the call through. It was the other nurse who was the subject of 90% of the scrutiny. This particular "joke" was nearing the end of its shelf life after only two days and would in all likelihood have died a natural death by the end of the weekend, had it not been for this poor lady's totally unpredictable and untimely death.

pigletmania Sat 08-Dec-12 20:12:03

They should not have done it in the first place, I ope that this has taught them a big lesson. I am not saying that they we're responsible for her death, but as a result of that prank and the furor and media coverage of it and the involvement of the two nurses this probably humiliated her and she felt no other option

LaCiccolina Sat 08-Dec-12 20:17:32

I don't wish death and destruction on these djs obviously, I hope their souls are giving them their own personal torment which I'm sure would be enough.

That said, I would have liked to see remorse. I see none from that station but carefully worded "it wasn't our fault" statements.

As these days it appears corporations and individuals can be shamed into moral tax obligations it's absurd that this situations apparently doesn't even warrant a statement from the djs concerned.

Shame on this station. Deep deep shame.

Doinmummy Sat 08-Dec-12 20:17:45

I agree midnight the fact that they were trying to get information about an unwell, newly pregnant woman is disgusting. It's a hospital and nothing about being in hospital is funny. I cant being to think what part of any of this they thought would be funny.

Doinmummy Sat 08-Dec-12 20:18:40

If the DJ's didnt think they would get put through then what was the point of it in the first place?

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Sat 08-Dec-12 20:18:56

Let us try and stop being hysterical and apply common sense to this. It is forseeable that a nurse in this position will have to answer questions, and will be upset about what has happened. It is not remotely foreseeable that she will become so distraught by it as to commit suicide - and indeed were we in this country not so ludicrously over-the-top in our attitude to the royals and in particular the Duchess of Cambridge the likelihood is she would not have done so. The DJs are not responsible for this death and it is morally illiterate to suggest otherwise.

RedToothbrush Sat 08-Dec-12 20:21:19

So when the call WAS put through where does that leave them Pumpkin? It was pre-recorded and vetted BEFORE going out on the airwaves.

So yes, I MIGHT concede your initial point, but I can't concede it given the fact they were successful. And tbh it was always possible that they might be put through and this WAS actually their goal from the outset.

They had numerous opportunities to question what could happen. It wasn't a live on-air stunt. It was well planned and considered at several stages.

Doinmummy Sat 08-Dec-12 20:23:02

As I said previously, we dont know that the nurse had NOT been reprimanded. I'm fairly sure that if this had happened at my place of work there would have been some sort of telling off even from co workers, let alone the bosses. Something along the lines of " you did what ???" you stupid idiot...you're in the shit now".

Its only after hearing that the nurse took her own life that the hospital said they were 'supporting' her.

andapartridgeinaRowantree Sat 08-Dec-12 20:23:10

As the OP can I just say that I didn't see the thread saying nurses should be sacked . And I definitely don't think they should have been.

The whole situation is very tragic and to claim that in staying I have compassion for the young Djs belittles the loss of the family is awful. As is to leap to the idea I don't value the NHS. How ridiculous.

These pranks are a constant part of radio and shows like phone jacker have made them even more prevalent. No one could have predicted this terrible outcome.

Doinmummy Sat 08-Dec-12 20:28:13

Putting aside the horrendous outcome of this. I still think that trying to get information about an unwell mum-to-be by impersonating someone else is disgusting.

Just image if it were a relative of yours in hospital and a neighbour phoned up pretending to be you?

OP - I didn't say that you didn't value the NHS. I said that the fact that we had a thread calling for her resignation, rather than sympathy for the situation she found herself in is telling. There are more requests for sympathies for the DJ's on this thread than there were on the other thread.

I also think its a demonstration of the lack of respect of authority of HCP's when people are just passing this off as a prank.

Do you honestly think nurses have the time to deal with prank calls? Did it not occur to them that the staff might be busy, delivering care, and therefore it's not the sort of place you ring up and start taking the piss?

It's a hospital for crying out loud!

So when the call WAS put through where does that leave them Pumpkin? It was pre-recorded and vetted BEFORE going out on the airwaves.

That's where I think it becomes the radio station's responsibility for airing it. I suspect they would not have done so had any information of a deeply personal nature been disclosed, but given that the ward nurse revealed little more than a series of stock medical cliches about the woman's condition, they went ahead with the broadcast. Like most broadcast organisations, they wanted to make some money, raise their profile, generate publicity - they're hardly alone in that, and their methods in doing so were hardly unique.

The prank was reprehensible, ill-conceived and juvenile, like the majority of pranks and stitch ups usually are, whether they're aired on a radio station or executed in between friends in every day situations. If there was any likelihood that prank calls were likely to result in suicide, schaudenfreude would never have taken off.

Say your best man ties your drunken fiance to a lamp-post outside a pub on his stag night for a "laugh", and then an out of control car mounts the pavement and hits him, fatally wounding him. Is it the best man's fault the fiance is dead, since if he had not been tied to the lamp-post he'd have had a better chance of getting out the way in time?

Tragic though the consequences were, I don't see that these two particular DJs are any more culpable or disgusting than any other DJ (or indeed human being) who either gets enjoyment from pranking, or seeing/hearing about someone being pranked. And I think we've ALL laughed at someone else's misfortune or embarrassment at some time or another.

flippinada Sat 08-Dec-12 20:38:20

What MrsdeVere said.

People make mistakes that have tragic/fatal consequences all the time; they still get punished for it.

"I didn't mean it" might be used as defence but isn't a get out of jail free card.

Note for the literally minded - I don't mean that they should actually go to jail.

diddl Sat 08-Dec-12 21:09:31

But what was the point of the "prank"?

What is ever the point of one?

A laugh at someone else´s expense.

Nasty & bullying.

festivelyfocussed Sat 08-Dec-12 21:11:49

Totally agree with points made by Redtoothbrush and Midnight.
feel so sad for this woman and her family.

seeker Sat 08-Dec-12 21:12:59

Is anyone questioning the hospital protocols? Because if they aren't, they should be.

SparklingSnow Sat 08-Dec-12 21:14:58

I do feel sorry for the DJs as they obviously never intended or expected that that would happen. I feel sorry for the family of the nurse as well. Nobody would have thought that it would result in a suicide.

Brycie Sat 08-Dec-12 21:26:26

"Brycie, am I right that it's the DJs you're not sorry for, not Jacintha's DCs?"

I don't know why you would imagine that. You must be mixing me up with another poster.

Brycie Sat 08-Dec-12 21:29:11

Sorry I didn't read that properly. No I don't feel sorry for the DJs, I think they'll be fine. It's a waste of time feeling sorry for them. Yes I feel sorry for her children. I feel sorry for her, what torments she must have gone through. I hate pranks, hate putting people through unnecessary distress, it's the same as reality TV shows tormenting celebrities and so on. It's a pathetic waste of time and brain work. You could just televise real suffering. I bet the ratings would plummet. These DJs will be fine. Maybe they've lost their careers and will have to go and work in a call centre or something. So what.

expatinscotland Sat 08-Dec-12 21:46:02

Ring 999. It's an emergency. I actually agree with Brycie for once.

AgentZigzag Sat 08-Dec-12 21:46:38

I've only managed to read half of what's left of the thread after I posted last night, but does anyone think there will be a backlash against people from Australia living in the UK?

I'm not necessarily talking about violence or anything, but being taken to task just because they're from Australia?

What happened in the media before the nurse died was pretty high profile and headline news. But her being found dead kind of concretes the 'prank' into a black and white/definitely wrong in more peoples minds, and they might feel justified in getting irate at someone they think (wrongly) of as a representative of their country.

Especially on a Saturday night when the beers and tempers are flowing.

Brycie Sat 08-Dec-12 21:48:18

smile I can't remember if we disagreed and what about. Best to keep it that way grin

Brycie Sat 08-Dec-12 21:50:38

I can't imagine that AZZ but then I've read some of the rubbish people have posted on their twitter accounts and the radio station website and I couldn't have imagined that normal people would do that either. These people should just be forgotten about and written out of public life. No need to add to a world of shit.

OhDearNigel Sat 08-Dec-12 21:56:48

I think most people in their right minds don't think German = nazi, Italian = fascist, Cambodian = Khmer Rouge. Why would anyone think that all Australians would find this sort of rubbish funny ?

I doubt a foreigner watching Frankie Boyle would think that every British person subscribed to the same viewpoint

AgentZigzag Sat 08-Dec-12 21:59:44

Some people don't even need a reason brycie, and the some who do I'm sure won't be bothered it's not legit and it'll cause even more shit.

Maybe it's just the nefarious rogue types I've known in the past that are influencing how I think grin

LaCiccolina Sat 08-Dec-12 22:01:55

AZZ very strange suggestion? We should punish an entire nation for 2 reps idiocy?

The point where reasonable conversation descends into anarchy has been reached...

Cracking open the whiskey and adding ice, anyone want a tot?

AgentZigzag Sat 08-Dec-12 22:02:21

You don't think a lot of people use stereotypes in their thinking OhDear?

Again, it must just be the types of people I've come across (who don't all come from the same area/work) because I think that's what people do all the time in RL.

AgentZigzag Sat 08-Dec-12 22:04:16

Eh LaC? Are you suggesting I've said people should go and take it out on people from Australia?

Either you need to read my post again knowing that's not the slant I was taking, or I've written it really badly.

OhDearNigel Sat 08-Dec-12 22:14:36

You don't think a lot of people use stereotypes in their thinking OhDear?

Not in that way, no. Certainly I've never met anyone who would think that two twattish people represent the feelings of an entire nation

No they couldn't predict the outcome. But they made a random nurse(or 2), doing their jobs, the butt of a worldwide joke - a laughing stock.

It's not unreasonable at all, to consider that some people will be equipped to cope with that better than others, and some not at all. That person answering the phone might have other things going on in her life, that being involved in this "prank" could completely overwhelm them, triggering a personal crisis.

These same DJ's interviewed a 12 year old girl, and ended up having her confessing live on air to having been raped.

They have form and they proceed. Because they are fame seekers, chasing a thrill and don't give a fuck or 2nd thought to the people they are manipulating. Oh until something happens to make them look bad, then they are momentarily contrite, then back in the game.

Brycie Sat 08-Dec-12 22:20:54

The worst thing is - they wouldn't do it if they didn't have an audience. Prank calls, crappy reality TV, frightening people for a joke, it's all got an audience. They must all be so stupid. The audience is now turning on the monster it has fostered.

I've only managed to read half of what's left of the thread after I posted last night, but does anyone think there will be a backlash against people from Australia living in the UK?

I'm not necessarily talking about violence or anything, but being taken to task just because they're from Australia?

Only the type of people who would yell at Samatha Womack for stealing a fictional character's fictional baby.

Don't go giving them any ideas. biscuit

These same DJ's interviewed a 12 year old girl, and ended up having her confessing live on air to having been raped.

You're wrong there, I'm afraid. The male DJ was only on his second day with the radio station (that's some initiation!)

It was two entirely different DJs who were involved in the fiasco with the young girl (and she was 14, not 12).

I wouldn't think there would be a backlash against Aussies, but be prepared for people to have a dig I'm sure.

AgentZigzag Sat 08-Dec-12 22:27:51

Exactly Pumpkin, that's why the media can be so dangerous because it all gets mixed up in peoples minds and when it comes out the other end 2 + 2 = 3794.

Behaving as if an actor is the TV character they play is irrational, and it's relatively common.

AgentZigzag Sat 08-Dec-12 22:32:34

'but be prepared for people to have a dig I'm sure. '

That's what I'm talking about, before the nurses death it would have been a bit of a good humoured/lighthearted dig at them, now, it'll be something more.

natation Sat 08-Dec-12 22:42:33

PumpkinPositive, if someone were to tie another person knowingly drunk to a lamppost and leave them there, late to die when a car crashes in to them, I think in fact they would be arrested and might be convicted of causing death by negligence.

Everything we do has consequences. Pranks have victims simple as that. I am still amazed that a single person among you feels sorry for those whose consequences has contributed to the death of another human being.

ReallyTired Sat 08-Dec-12 22:49:21

I feel sorry for the nurse, the nurse's family, the hospital staff and a little bit for Kate. I don't think the DJs deserve any pity for their actions. They knew that playing the recording of the phonecall would wreck someone's career. It is reasonable to think the DJs should lose their careers.

The nurses fell for the hoax and it could be argued that one of them paid for her simple error of judgement with her life.

banana87 Sat 08-Dec-12 22:50:34

I'm in 2 minds really.

I'm bloody pissed off with the DJ's. However, they had no idea that someone would kill themselves over it.

PumpkinPositive, if someone were to tie another person knowingly drunk to a lamppost and leave them there, late to die when a car crashes in to them, I think in fact they would be arrested and might be convicted of causing death by negligence.

I didn't say anything about leaving them there (at least for any length of time). But irrespective of that - and I'm no lawyer - I would be very surprised if the tie-r is charged with anything relating to the actual death in the case of a car which mounts the pavement and hits someone.

The initial report I read in Aussie news got the facts wrong re them being the same DJ's who got girl to confess being raped.

But it was the same broadcaster and all the parties involved must have known about it - clearly they didn't learn from that re playing with people.

It's quite sick to manipulate and humiliate innocent and unsuspecting people, and broadcast that humiliation, in the name of humour and let's face it ratings and ultimately money.

I think they must feel dreadful about it. I feel dreadful about it. But I am a long way from feeling sorry for them.

mercibucket Sat 08-Dec-12 23:33:32

Presumably the DJs were given the number by someone? And the tape was checked before being aired. We can be angry with the DJs but they were just the weapon being held by others, higher up at the station.

Some have compared this to 'you've been framed'. No - with those kind of tv programmes, the victim has to consent to the footage being shown. Presumably not everyone does consent

This is more akin to viral youtube bullying but on an international scale, followed up by internet traffic calling for her to be sacked. I also note that all the UK media only played her voice, not the voice of the other nurse.

I am surprised people do not think it was a possible consequence. We do not have all that many examples to compare to. In most situations, it involves someone already in the public eye, say a politician or an actor, who is tricked on film or audio. They, I presume, do not have to give consent. It is a given that they have agreed to a level of media interest in their lives. We do have other examples, such as Dr Kelly, of 'normal' people thrust into the public eye who couldn't cope. On a normal scale, I am sure we can all think of articles we have read of people killing themselves after bullying by facebook, distribution of film of themselves to all in their school or workplace etc. It is certainly something I seem to read once a year or so, very sadly. So I would say it is a predictable but rare response to public humiliation.

Do I feel sorry for the DJs? Yes. I also feel sorry for people who kill others through careless driving. It doesn't mean it was not their fault, but there is no need to demonise them either. I feel incredibly sad for the family of this nurse and so sorry that this has happened and a life ended so unnecessarily.

seeker Sat 08-Dec-12 23:43:38

Why isn't anyone questioning the hospital's protocols? They are bused to having ViPs as patients- they must have an agreed procedure for taking phone calls?

VicarInaTutuDrankSantasSherry Sat 08-Dec-12 23:47:03

im reserving my sympathy for those who deserve it and that is not the DJs or the station.

The djs were bragging about it on facebook following the broadcast. What kind of people are they?

they will bounce back in a few months no doubt as if nothing has happened. the family of the nurse who died wont.

AgentZigzag Sat 08-Dec-12 23:49:08

With such high profile royals seeker, I was wondering where the protection team factored into it?

Even in hospital they would have to have some kind of control over who has contact with them.

You'd have thought they could have predicted the media would do all sorts to try and ring through for information.

EIizaDay Sun 09-Dec-12 01:15:14

AgentZig - there are one or two of in this thread however I think we've been lost in the crowds baying for blood.

AgentZigzag Sun 09-Dec-12 01:22:17

Are you in the protection racket too Eliza? <funny handshake>

wink

GothAnneGeddes Sun 09-Dec-12 01:52:01

Seeker - 1) Talking about hospital protocols is a bit like talking about clothing in rape cases, it smacks of victim blaming. Media organisations should not be prank calling hospitals, it is hideously unethical, aside from breaching confidentiality it is wasting hospital time and resources.

2)They called at 5.30am UK time. The standard receptionist was not on duty, Jacintha, who was probably extremely tired at the end of a night shift and probably just happened to be passing and was thinking of other things entirely picked up the phone. Whatever training/policy you might have can easily fly out of your head when faced with such an odd situation when you are tired. Nurse number 2 then takes the call, probably thinks they've already been vetted and speaks to the DJ's.

exoticfruits Sun 09-Dec-12 07:19:09

I agree with GothAnneGeddes, if you are really tired after a night's work and quickly answer a phone because you happen to be passing, and no one is there, you are not really thinking of protocols. I bet everyone can think of a time when they have not answered a phone call in the sensible way they would if they were fresh and expecting to answer phone calls.

exoticfruits Sun 09-Dec-12 07:21:27

I would have thought that the first rule for a 'joke' like that was to explain it to the victim and ask them for permission to share it with the world- not just expose them to ridicule with no thought for them.

exoticfruits Sun 09-Dec-12 07:21:51

And if it was me I wouldn't give permission!

seeker Sun 09-Dec-12 07:23:22

It's not victim blaming.

This is a hospital which regularly treats very high profile people. It is extraordinary that there weren't systems in place to stop this sort of thing happening. It is extraordinary that both these poor women obviously haven't had proper training in what to do when you have high profile patients.

EIizaDay Sun 09-Dec-12 07:33:13

I agree completely with seeker. I have worked in sensitive situations involving VIPs (in my past life I must add) and systems are always so stringent and had to be fail-proof that I am quite gobsmacked at what was allowed to happen in the hospital.

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Sun 09-Dec-12 07:39:37

Haven't read the 12 pages but I agree with Seeker - neither Kate Middleton - or anyone, in any hospital, for that matter - or these nurses should have been laid open to this thing happening.
Absolutely extraordinary that a call like that could get through.

How much do we pay for the royals' security again?

exoticfruits Sun 09-Dec-12 07:39:48

The answer obviously is to be 'a jobsworth' and not answer the phone when it is not your job at the time!

seeker Sun 09-Dec-12 07:42:13

No. The answer is for employers to ensure that you are properly trained to do your job.

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Sun 09-Dec-12 07:47:20

I do wonder also how those nurses were treated by their employers.
Hauled over the coals by red-faced managers looking to pass on the blame for their own lack of adequate systems?

exoticfruits Sun 09-Dec-12 07:47:31

I would suggest then that they were properly staffed and had enough nurses at night to have time to think. (also pay them more so that they were not living in Bristol and working in London). They may have high profile people staying but they seem just as understaffed and over stretched as any other hospital.

exoticfruits Sun 09-Dec-12 07:49:06

Exactly Shotgun- too few nurses, too many managers and then when the managers fail to to their job of setting up systems- blame the nurses!

Snazzyfeelingfestive Sun 09-Dec-12 07:49:21

Seeker, totally agree. All hospital staff should have been briefed that calls are only dealt with by a named senior person in comms. The hospital itself let its staff down badly here.

exoticfruits Sun 09-Dec-12 07:50:29

I would think that most people had handled at least one phone call extremely badly in their life but luckily no one knows!

seeker Sun 09-Dec-12 07:55:46

One phone call handled badly is unfortunate and could happen anywhere. Two in quick succession is management failure.

exoticfruits Sun 09-Dec-12 08:00:58

Exactly-management failure and not nurse failure. It doesn't detract from the fact that I don't feel sorry for the DJs- if you are going to do a practical joke you need to think it out first. I can accept that they never imagined they would get through- but if you imagine that why try in the first place? Common sense tells you that someone will be in trouble for a moment of 'fun'.

seeker Sun 09-Dec-12 08:12:07

But nobody is talking about the management failure. And it's also interesting that before this awful happened, the mumsnet consensus seemed to be that the nurses concerned should be sacked. it's only since that all the blame has been heaped at the door of the radio station.

It is outrageous that they broadcast the phone call without consent. Absolutely outrageous. And possibly illegal.

But anyone with a modicum of training should have realised that the Queen would not phone a hospital personally at 5.30 in the morning. And is unlikely to have been asking Prince Charles when he could run her down to visit, or to be saying she had to go and feed the corgis. And it makes me wonder how crap the hospital is in other areas of security. And I suspect they are now being taken apart by the royalty protection people.

exoticfruits Sun 09-Dec-12 08:15:54

Of course it was appalling - but so are overworked nurses.

The thread is about feeling sorry for the DJs - and everything else on here doesn't detract from 'no I don't'.

kakapo Sun 09-Dec-12 08:19:48

I don't understand this prank at all - so they call up to see if they can get confidential info about someone who is ill, and then what?? How is it supposed to be funny?! I hate pranks anyway, but usually you can see what the joke is meant to be.

Jossysgiants Sun 09-Dec-12 08:24:35

I feel a little sorry for them. They have been idiotic. They could not have anticipated their actions would have these consequences. However they must have known there would be some detrimental consequences to the nurses. They will have to live with that. However, I completely fail to understand why the police should be involved in this, as the papers are reporting that they may be extradited and face manslaughter charges. This would have worrying implications in my view regarding suicide and responsibility. However, is being 'reported' in the Daily Mail so is likely to be bollocks speculation.

exoticfruits Sun 09-Dec-12 08:26:03

I don't see how they can face manslaughter charges.

peaceandlovebunny Sun 09-Dec-12 08:27:24

i don't feel sorry for the bullies djs. they were taking part in a horrible activity, admittedly one pursued by many, and the consquences of their actions were the worst possible.

it is worth saying that nurses shouldn't give away personal information to randoms - but when relatives phone, they expect to be told. the fault lies with the liars who claimed to be relatives when they weren't - for a laugh. very funny - not.

the media also should share the blame - yes, it happened, but was there any need to broadcast it worldwide?

i feel sorry for the woman who felt the burden of a mistake and the resulting global shaming so badly that she took her own life. i feel sorry for the children left without their mother because she made a mistake at work which was talked about around the world.

but i do not feel sorry, for even one moment, for the crass, bullying djs or the despicable aspects of a western 'liberal' culture which tolerates this kind of behaviour.

They could not have expected the consequence of their actions?

In most countries, prank calls to emergency services are a criminal offense.

This was no emergency line but surely mobilising a phoneline and resources in a hospital WITH the intent of breaching someones's privacy with the knowledge that that particular patient is under intense media scrutiny?
They must have given it a thougt, no?

Even without the tragic loss of life, it's wrong on so many levels, for many parties involved.

seeker Sun 09-Dec-12 08:35:47

Oh, of course they can't face manslaughter charges.

I don't think anyone comes out of this very well, to be honest.

exoticfruits Sun 09-Dec-12 08:51:09

The only good to come out of it is that people might think twice before a 'prank'. ( but I doubt it)

lotsofdogshere Sun 09-Dec-12 09:13:00

I don't feel it's ok to take the line that this nurse must have had "other issues" going on. She was a nurse, not someone who sought a job in the public eye, where any publicity could be seen as good publicity. These dj"s set out to get private, medical information about a young woman, pregnant with her first baby and in hospital because she needed hospital treatment. They had no right to do that to anybody. I feel for the young parents to be, firstly having to make the pregnancy public before they wanted to and secondly the impact the death of the nurse may have on what should be a happy time for them. More than anything though, what a dreadful mess, this nurse's husband, children and extended family left bereaved in such circumstances. The last thing they need is for people to blame the nurse by saying this prank wouldn't have tipped a "normal" person into suicide. This whole episode reflects a bullying culture in which anyone who can't stand the heat, should get out of the kitchen. Horrible.

Pantomimedam Sun 09-Dec-12 09:15:13

I'm sure the presenters didn't foresee the outcome of their actions. That's because they are too arrogant or stupid to think that breaching medical confidentiality might be wrong.

I hate prank calls anyway - they always seem to embarrass and humiliate the poor bloody receptionist or other lowly (in heirarchical terms) member of staff.

aladdinsane Sun 09-Dec-12 09:22:51

i do hope they lose their careers
they may not have expected the poor nurse to take her life but they must have expected there was a good chance she would lose her job
The laws need changing, i think permission should be gained before anything is broadcast or put on the internet
If you do something unfortunate in a public place there is a good chance some idiot with a mobile phone will stick you on youtube
I would hate it
Celebrities have chosen to be in the public domain. Its not fair to put people there without consent, especially just for a cheap laugh
I am not convinced they are feeling so fragile anyway, I think its an effort to gain public sympathy for them so they can rescue their careers

I heard on radio 4 news this morning that the 2 DJs are having intensive counselling to cope with the backlash against them.
So not, then, to cope with the fact their prank had led to someone's suicide.
Interesting
After hearing that, I have no sympathy for them at all.

CabbageLeaves Sun 09-Dec-12 09:35:51

I hope the managers and lawyers are being remembered by everyone. I think they bear equal guilt

clam Sun 09-Dec-12 10:07:37

And let's hope that no radio station decides to phone up whichever facility the "vulnerable" female DJ is being cared for in, and broadcast the "hilarious" conversation.
If she is as vulnerable as the Mail blush reports, then she should surely have had an iota of insight that taking the piss (indirectly) out of anyone in hospital is not acceptable.

seeker Sun 09-Dec-12 10:16:40

Absolutely, cabbageleaves. Both lots of managers- the radio station and the hospital.

sayithowitis Sun 09-Dec-12 10:18:51

I do not have sympathy for them.
They have brought this upon themselves by their own actions. They chose to instigate a course of action that anyone with a modicum of sense, would have realised would have unpleasant consequences for an innocent party - at least some sort of disciplinary warning and possibly the loss of her job for the nurse. But, the DJs chose to go ahead anyway. I agree that they could not have foreseen the dreadful outcome, but are we really saying that it would all have been fine as long as she didn't die? Really? It would have been acceptable for her to potentially lose her job in order to generate a bit more fame for another person? They had no way of knowing that the person who was the butt of their 'joke', wasn't the sole provider for their family, or indeed whether or not that person had any form of MH issues (I dont necessarily think she did - just a very highly developed sense of profesionalism that meant when she, in her eyes, failed her patients, caused her to react in this extreme way) and really, I don't think for one moment that they cared. All they cared about was themselves and their ratings.

So no, I do not have any sympathy for them.

Quote from the bbc website, (apologies is mentioned before in thread):

Michael Christian had basked in the attention that he and his colleague Mel Greig, a former reality TV star, had obtained for their hospital hoax.

"The only bad thing about our Royal Prank… is knowing that I will NEVER EVER top this,'' he posted on Facebook. "Less than a week in the job & I've already peaked."

Of course this was before the news of the suicide, but it leaves a nasty nasty taste in the mouth.

The quest today in the media for notoriety and ratings is sickening...

apologies IF mentioned, sorry!

helenthemadex Sun 09-Dec-12 10:32:50

I have no sympathy what so ever for them

people keep saying the nurse must have had other issues, I don't think that is necessarily true

Imagine going to work one day doing your job, something happens that makes worldwide news with you at the centre of it being ridiculed, humiliated having people calling for you to be sacked, facing disciplinary procedures and knowing that one mistake could have potentially changed your life and that of your family for ever

it would take a very very strong person to just get on with it, and ignore everything that was being said about her. she was not someone famous and used to being in the news, she was just someone doing a job and by all accounts doing it well

The people who deserve our sympathy are her family, not the two pathetic shock jocks who gloated over it, and the shit radio station who continues to support and attempt to justify their actions, shame on them

GothAnneGeddes Sun 09-Dec-12 12:31:48

The other point, which I've made elsewhere, is that it is likely that Jacintha was extremely sleep-deprived.

You are often bone-tired after a night shift and then all this blows up, I doubt she was able to sleep easily.

Looking at the timeline of events, she may not have slept for nearly 72 hours, that sort of time without sleep seriously damages your sense of perspective, tragically so, in this case.

SetPhasersTaeMalkie Sun 09-Dec-12 12:42:35

I don't think that having some sympathy for the two DJs is anyway means that you approve of what they have done. Nor is it a finite resource which can only be expended on the deserving. I can have sympathy for all involved.

I think what the two DJs did was appalling. I think if the call had not been made the nurse would still be alive.

However, I am imagining how they are feeling now knowing their actions have most probably caused the death of another human being. Does the fact that they have made an extremely poorly judged, possibly illegal phone call strip them of all other human emotions?

I don't think it does.

Everyone is scrabbling about looking for someone to blame - the DJs, the hospital, the systems, the security services, the Royal family, the media, even a thread on MN!

To what end? It may make you feel better but it doesn't change the circumstances.

LaCiccolina Sun 09-Dec-12 12:44:37

It's pure speculation at best to refer to how the poor nurse was feeling in her private life before, during and after this event. At worst it is damaging to her memory and her family. I just think its very disrespectful.

Tbh I also feel it's irrelevant entirely. The DJs/station did not care who was at the end of the phone. That was not important. What was portent was the potential of a story, their ratings. They cared not a jot if it was a receptionist, nurse, doctor or the CEO. Anyone was fair game. Mental capacity to deal with handling fall out any fall out was not considered. In fact any reaction would only b probably considered better precisely for more exposure.

That in this case the person killed themselves was not even thought as a worst case. This in essence is similar to Ross/brand with one exceptionally vital difference; remorse. Remorse was quickly expressed by station, artists and those involved. That is not the case here. Here it is clearly not the stations or DJ intention or desire or frankly it would have already been expressed.

It's too late now. It just will not be believed.

DontmindifIdo Sun 09-Dec-12 12:56:58

I thought the police were only involved now because the Oz police are going to take a statement from them to give to the Met police to give to the inquest. (if you follow that)

Thing is, how did they think that this would end well for the person who was pranked? Surely they would expect them to lose their job at very least? I mean, setting out to get an innocent person sacked is pretty shitty however you look at it. Of course she might not have fallen for it, but then once she had, it was clear when they subsequently broadcast it (as I understand it, this didn't go out live) that they were about to end this woman's career. OK, the hosptial said they wouldn't have fired her, but we don't know if she'd have been encouraged to leave or moved on to less front line jobs so felt she had to go. There was time between making the call and broadcasting to check with lawyers that they wouldn't get in trouble (apparently they did get it cleared before broadcast) so there was time for someone to say "what's going to happen to the poor woman we hoaxed?"

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 09-Dec-12 13:44:34

I think it's a pretty harsh irony here for those 2 DJs who are now in hiding, one close to a break down, both being 'counselled' etc. They brought a massive shit storm to the door of a nurse caught up in their prank, and now that shit storm has landed squarely at their door step as a result of them not really thinking through the potental consquences for the victims of their prank. I wouldn't wish the sort of media intrusion they are experiencing on anyone, but they weren't too fussed about the nurses they 'pranked' and the media intrusion that would bring to them, thinking that the royals were 'fair game'. Unpleasant business all round.

EIizaDay Sun 09-Dec-12 14:02:20

Oh come on! If you've listened to the tape recording you will know that they never for a minute would ever have thought this call would have gone through.

She's a 30 something year old Aussie trying to talk like the Queen and he's pretending to be Charles in the background. The "Queen" is shouting at "Charles" to stop the corgis barking - it's all a complete farce. That this call wasn't hung up on within the first 20 seconds of being received is almost unbelievable.

I guess by looking at their profiles that they are not the type of people I'd like to mix with but really you lot need to stop it. They were being silly. They didn't expect the call to be taken seriously. It has had tragic circumstances - but they could never, ever have foreseen that.

The broadcasting of the event is out of their hands and perhaps a different matter.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 09-Dec-12 15:04:42

I have listened to the call, and it doesn't matter if they never expected to be put through. They could have hung up before it went any further but then, where is the entertainment in that? They never thought past making the actual call yet once they got through, got more than they expected, they courted the media and made as much from the exposure as they could. I think some recognition that when the media focus is on you, and that focus isn't positive, it's can be a deeply distressing experience as they are now experiencing to their cost. It's very ironic that the humiliation of a nurse matters little in the pursuit of entertainment, but when the focus of the media turns, suddenly they now realise just how awful it is to be in the eye of that storm.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 09-Dec-12 15:11:07

I agree that their management are ultimately responsible for the decision to broadcast but the DJs were revelling in their notoriety for a while, enjoying the focus until things they never thought about affected someone else in a very serious way. I don't go along with their public flogging, but some recognition of the effects if their 'silly' behaviour, no matter how innocent their intentions were, is what they should be doing something about. Bringing the focus of the world media is where they went badly wrong, and that was not an 'unexpected twist'. They courted that and sought that out. They are merely reaping what they've sown IMO.

farandawaysheran Sun 09-Dec-12 16:22:20

So does everybody calling for their heads on a plate have a clean conscience?

There for the grace of God perhaps?

I'm thinking that none of us, faceless opinion-sharers on MN, NOT ONE OF US can be certain that a flaming, a judgy comment, an attack on someone's child rearing, religion, diet, tunic ffs has not led to a 'victim' feeling desperate and without hope.

I've seen, probably dished out and certainly received comments here that I've found deeply upsetting.

I'm lucky, the sting wears off and I carry on.

There might be people who don't.

So I'm feeling sorry for them today. And everyone else touched by the tragedy.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 16:43:44

But we aren't publicly humiliating them are we?

You can't compare calling someone mumsy to what those idiots did.

farandawaysheran Sun 09-Dec-12 16:49:14

This is a public forum.

And I've seen a hell if a lot worse than 'mumsy'

And I've seen posters get massively upset over the equivalent if 'mumsy.'

Point is, there's fragility everywhere. And unless you creep on eggshells you simply never know what will push another human over the edge.

farandawaysheran Sun 09-Dec-12 16:51:29

OF, dammit

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 16:58:01

It's two different things.

Whoever answered that call and potentially put those dj's through to the ward was always going to get into some kind of trouble.

They were wrong.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 09-Dec-12 17:06:18

I think the point about there being fragility everywhere is exactly why they should have been more responsible about what they did when they were put through and why the station/producers/DJs should have considered the wider implications of bring international media coverage to the prank. It is a lesson learned for them (I hope) and I'd like to now see their understanding that while they never intended the serious consequences, they now understand that even the most innocent 'prank' can get wildly out if control if they then use it to seek media attention. The prank itself, without any media attention, may have seemed innocent or entertaining on its own, but the minute you drag the media in, there is no telling how that will play out. That's a massive amount of power and needs wiser and calmer heads than those who decided to broadcast it.

Pantomimedam Sun 09-Dec-12 17:09:01

farandaway - there's a massive difference between people who are paid to entertain, who are broadcasting a prank call potentially to the whole world, and someone posting on MN. There's also the breach of medical confidentiality to take into account.

I'm a journalist - and irritated by people who call this pair of durr-brain DJs journalists but hey ho - and when I'm at work I think carefully about the likely implications of my actions. Here I'm just nattering.

Pantomimedam Sun 09-Dec-12 17:10:23

bunch - they are the media.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 09-Dec-12 17:16:21

Point taken, they aren't what I'd call 'media' in the sense the don't report news but try and court news if that makes sense. I do take your point, but am not expressing myself well here smile

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 17:18:10

I feel very sorry for them. The Royals are notorious for lacking in their humour and they have PREVIOUS when it comes to 'getting rid of' people who embarrass them!

noddyholder Sun 09-Dec-12 17:19:44

It is awful for them too. It is one of those good idea at the time scenarios which could have gone either way. There is huge pressure in that world to get the story and they could have been heros at work under other circumstances. Awful situation all round

clam Sun 09-Dec-12 17:24:21

"The Royals are notorious for lacking in their humour"

Really? I disagree. And in this case, Charles was joking about the phone call the day after - before it became known about poor Jacintha.

And by the way, Jacintha was not a native English speaker - so was unlikely to have been able to detect a bad Aussie accent impersonating the Queen.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 17:24:39

It's tragic and upsetting but you have to question the state of mind of a person who chooses death over her family..esp when it comes to the Royals who often choose quite happily to humiliate themselves! Comeon..Tampax Charlie and 'Slitty eyed, Wog, etc etc'
Philip... no competition which is more humiliating!!!

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 17:26:22

Aparently Wills was 'livid'..just quoting The Mirror..I don't know them or anything..Just going on past experience..
Doubt he's so livid now! It was just a silly practical joke...that went horribly wrong.

FeistyLass Sun 09-Dec-12 17:42:44

buncha, I think you made a good point about fragility being everywhere and that we could all perhaps be more aware or considerate.
Although, saying that, I'm struggling with feeling sorry for the DJs at the moment because they're still hiding behind the radio station and are more concerned with fudging liability than taking responsibility. If they resigned and apologised, then I'd feel sorry for them (and I realise how conditional that sounds!) until then I'm not sure they're not more concerned with their careers than someone's death.
On the other hand, I do think the whole media circus is awful and the public witchhunt is painful. I just hope the whole tragic episode doesn't end up with any more victims before it's finished.

farandawaysheran Sun 09-Dec-12 17:43:40

They're no more journalists than Dom Joly or Jeremy Beadle. They work with managers and producers who make the real editorial decisions.

Panto, agree about the breech of ethics; a riobust organisation-wide security policy regularly practises and thoroughly implemented would have stopped that daft call at 'hellair.'

As for 'nattering I've seen some very sensitive souls take things horribly to heart here, on the most innocuous of subjects as well as all the oldbutton-pushers!

farandawaysheran Sun 09-Dec-12 17:45:06

*breach.
*practised
Gah.

JustFabulous Sun 09-Dec-12 17:50:14

I can't sqaure their apologies (before the nurse died) with the fact they continued to promote and boast about the prank. If they were truly sorry about it they wouldn't have continued to promote it.

If she is in the mess the media is saying she is then maybe she isn't the person to do these things. She was happy to make fun of various people and now there has been a backlash (as there was before the nurse's death) she can't hack it.

People have taken their own lives for less than this and sometimes do after one event.

Bottom line there is a good chance two children would have their mum for Christmas if Mel and Michael hasn't picked up the phone.

JustFabulous Sun 09-Dec-12 17:53:04

I think the fact is they just didn't think about the consequences as they didn't expect to get through but when you are doing something as stupid as this you really ought to think it through once, twice, several times.

helenthemadex Sun 09-Dec-12 18:06:45

I do think the whole media circus is awful and the public witchhunt is painful

so very true but as bunchamunchycrunchycarrots said they wanted attention and the media circus for their prank, but at the same time had no consideration for just how awful the negative publicity would be for Jacintha

For me the fact that one of the DJ's is reportedly close to a breakdown because of all the negative publicity is poetic justice, she had a choice in what she participated in and full knowledge of what she was doing, Jacintha did not

helenthemadex Sun 09-Dec-12 18:09:22

and I agree with Feistylass if they came out of hiding and admitted they were wrong and said sorry I would probably have more sympathy and respect for them, at the moment they look like gutless cowards hiding from the storm behind the radio station

Hulababy Sun 09-Dec-12 18:22:16

Oh come on - you cannot lay the blame on the royal family for this!
There may be many people at fault here - I don't see how the royals involved can be part of that though.

GalaxyDisaster Sun 09-Dec-12 18:27:26

YANBU to have sympathy for them, but personally I have none. I do think, though, that there should be more focus on the editorial team around them.

This radio station decided to take a hospital admission for a serious condition (bear in mind, before drips, etc, people died of HG. Charlotte Bronte is believed to have done). They knew nothing about the rest of her condition - she could have been miscarrying, or dangerously close to organ failure, for all they knew.

They decided that someone in that position was an appropriate focus for a prank. Somehow, because she was royal/famous, she was not a person. Would you 'prank' a friend or relative in those circumstances, even if they liked jokes?

They then decided that it was ok to involve staff at the hospital in their 'prank' by calling them. Even on the best case scenario for the hospital, they would have wasted the time of hospital staff.

They called, and they heard what happened. Personal details of a sick woman were revealed (even if most of it was in the public domain as, thankfully, it was good news). A second's pause at that point would have made them realise that nothing good could happen for the staff involved. The apparent suicide was not foreseeable, but shame, and embarrassment and ridicule were all obvious consequences. So they thought it was ok to publicly shame and humiliate someone. Disciplinary action against the staff could easily have followed. Likewise, how does it make someone who has spent the last x days chucking her guts up until dangerously dehydrated feel that her condition has been the focus of such hilarity.

Knowing that, they went ahead and broadcast, trailed, promoted and boasted about their 'prank'. They said 'oops, sorry' when challenged, but continued to promote, and brag, about the prank. Until the awful news.

All those at the station involved have been guilty of treating the nurse, the staff and the royals as 'non persons' just because of the press interest in the pregnancy. They treated them in a way you would never treat someone you knew, in a way you would never want anyone to treat your mum, or sister, or friend. I hate all 'pranks', but it's just not the same as convincing Justin Beiber he's promoting trainers with a rude name or whatever. It was deeply cruel from the outset.

And because it was cruel from the outset, I don't really have much sympathy with the (admittedly unforeseeable) consequences. Because when you are cruel to people, sometimes you hurt them more than you realise.

As for those who said, 'Charles was laughing about it', I expect he felt he had no choice but to laugh along. I knew bullies at school who did this. Played nasty tricks on people and, if you didn't laugh, you 'had no sense of humour'. It was their automatic joke. 'Duh, it was a joke, can't you take a joke'. If Charles had said 'well actually no, what they did was despicable' he would have made this into a bigger story than it was at the time "Charles condemns prank call" headlines. So my guess is he smiled and joked as the least worst way to answer.

giveitago Sun 09-Dec-12 19:53:28

YANBU as that's your view.

I personally have no symapthy for the two. They played a prank, they revelled and capitalised on the fact it went global. The got publicity for the show/station. Then it went wrong.

I'd hope that the hospital that's going to deliver this baby puts in procedures so that staff are not put in this position again.

flippinada Sun 09-Dec-12 20:03:26

Galaxy what an excellent post. Says it all.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 20:10:45

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

kim147 Sun 09-Dec-12 20:12:35

shelley Isn't that what bullies say?

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 20:12:43

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 20:13:30

Most mothers suffer morning sickness. If you milk it, you suffer ridicule. I know people (not me as I didn't suffer one ounce) who could have been admitted to hospital but suffered on through..

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 20:14:33

Oh okay, I must be a bully. STFU?? Classy!

Chubfuddler Sun 09-Dec-12 20:14:53

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echt Sun 09-Dec-12 20:15:08

shelly, so you're OK with people getting private information about a patient. hmm

GalaxyDisaster Sun 09-Dec-12 20:16:00

Morning sickness? Milking it? Kate was diagnosed with hyperemesis gravida. Did you read the bit where I wrote that, pre medical advances like drips it used to kill people.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 20:16:55

Very classy but that's beside the point.
My son killed himself so little quotes like yours get under my skin.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 20:17:17

No but it was a one off prank. Plus, go on Google/Yahoo/FB you can find anything about anyone. Boo hoo if you happen to be a Royal (by marriage).

Hulababy Sun 09-Dec-12 20:18:20

But she wasn't "just" suffering from morning sickness. She has HG which is far more. It isn't always possible to just soldier on - dehydration can be very serious, esp in a pregnant woman. Sometimes the medical profession do know best and being in hospital is necessary.

It was a stupid "prank" that was always going to cause hurt and humiliation. We teach children to think first and to then own up if things go wrong and to take responsibility for their actions, even when things have gone wrong and even if not intentionally.

This went badly wrong. The humilation would have been bad enough, but this was just horrendously wrong. The radio station - and not just the DJs involved - need to take action and try and help make some form of amends for what they have caused.

Chubfuddler Sun 09-Dec-12 20:19:27

You don't generally speaking find people's medical history on google.

Hulababy Sun 09-Dec-12 20:20:06

Shelly32 - it was NOT a one off prank. The radio station involved had form and have already been in trouble with their so called pranks. They made a 14 year old old child go on a lie detector which resulted int he child ending up needing to admit, on air, that she'd been raped when she was 12y.

You really feel the radio station needs defending when they most certainly do not do these things as one off errors???

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 20:20:27

Everlong No offence. Sorry. It's not a laughing matter and you've actually made me feel very sad. No words will ever make up for that. I never made light of the fact she died. It's tragic. I just think there was no need,esp not over overblown self important royals.

Hulababy Sun 09-Dec-12 20:21:11

I know my own name, address, paieint number, etc.
Even with that information I can find no reference to my own patient/medical records online, especially via google. etc

OhDearNigel Sun 09-Dec-12 20:22:56

Well Shelley, its unfortunate but someone did get hurt. Would you think that a drink driver shouldn't be prosecuted if they said " I didn't mean to do it, didn't plan to hurt anyone" ?

Your suggestion that the nurse simply took herself too seriously is highly offensive. You have no idea what repercussions losing her job or being struck off could have meant for her family. For all you know losing her job could have ended up with them on the street.

giveitago Sun 09-Dec-12 20:23:10

Shelly - what do you have against this nurse?

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 20:24:15

shelly you said ' it was a joke, if people didn't take themselves too seriously nobody would get hurt ' I found that very hurtful. Hurtful for that nurse and for her family.

GalaxyDisaster Sun 09-Dec-12 20:25:02

Oh goodness. I hadn't noticed Shelly's first post. So a suicidal nurse 'took herself too seriously'. Words fail me.

Hulababy Sun 09-Dec-12 20:26:46

I have a feeling Shelley's real gripe is at the Royals and she feels that this has happened because of them, not because of the stupidity and arrogance of the radio station and its DJs.

flippinada Sun 09-Dec-12 20:28:25

I expect Shelly thought she was being a bit sharp and provocative, but didn't think it through.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 20:29:18

So it's Kate's fault for having HG and being hospitalised. Right.

I actually feel for Kate.

Hulababy Sun 09-Dec-12 20:31:14

I don't agree with that can I point out. I just get the impression from the posts and how often she refers to the Royal family.

OhDearNigel Sun 09-Dec-12 20:32:39

How can the Royal Family be blamed ? They do not have a choice to be part of a constitutional monarchy and it is ridiculous to blame them for the actions of two adult professionals who should have foreseen that their actions would have negative consequences.

tazzle22 Sun 09-Dec-12 20:37:12

excellent post Galaxy. says what I think so I can add no more.

Even simple pranks can go wrong. At work a few years ago a male colleague thought it was a great prank to sneak up behind me and grab me, wrapping his arms right round me. This provoked an abreaction in me as I was at the time undergoing counselling following a sexual assault that had in itself led to recurrent flashbacks of childhood sexual abuse.

He did not mean it either........ had thought it would be funny !

so shelley ( and others that are excusing pranks / jokes) ...... I really really wished I could have "lightened up".

Only play "pranks " on those that have indicated that they enjoy such stuff !

JustFabulous Sun 09-Dec-12 20:37:17

The did wrong. They were idiots. I think we can agree on that. They don't matter though. 2 children without their mum do.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 20:41:06

Hulababy, yep you got me. I actually do have a gripe about the royals and eveyone else, honestly...you think I blame the nurse? Are you serious? I don't blame anyone in all honesty. I don't think you can...

GalaxyDisaster Sun 09-Dec-12 20:43:24

Tazzle - So sorry for what happened to you. That's another good example of a prank that hurt someone far more than intended.

Another thought which occurred to me was, what if this nurse had just been so embarrassed that she resigned in a couple of weeks. That wouldn't have hit the headlines. And the DJs would have continued to consider their 'prank' harmless, when in fact it would have caused significant harm.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 20:44:06

You may have a gripe with the royal family but you seriously can't blame them for this woman's death. Can you?

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 20:46:00

I just said.. 'I don't blame anyone'

OhDearNigel Sun 09-Dec-12 20:48:56

Wow, one of the quickest U turns ever seen on Mumsnet !

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 20:50:15

Maybe, it's not how it looks though.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 20:52:22

Okay if it makes you feel better to turn your anger on me go ahead..this is friggin cyber space..shoot me Nigel!!!

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:00:10

Heaven forbid anyone try and have a joke or a laugh with some of you lot! It wasn't bullying, they were pretending to be the Queen for goodness sakes. Am i missing something? Is that not a little bit daring and a little bit funny? The outcome hasn't been funny for sure but who the hell could have predicted such a tragic and dramatic outcome???

somuchslimmernow Sun 09-Dec-12 21:02:12

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EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 21:02:32

Oh dear christ.

Are you for real?

I would bow out if I were you. Quick.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:05:11

So if I don't agree with the majority, I'm a moron...oooookay.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:06:53

Would you ever think of impersonating the Queen? Would you ever think you'd get away with it? I doubt thoe Djs did either!!

Hulababy Sun 09-Dec-12 21:07:13

It wasn't funny. It wasn't daring. It was ill thought out and a childish immature prank. It was obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that it would lead to staff being humiliated and possible discipline at work. It wasn't live so it was a conscious decision to air the whole thing.
So you can't even blame it on a spur of the moment type "prank."

Even if it was a so called joke - it went wrong, badly wrong. They need to stand up and admit that, apologise properly (not joking about it and then going into hiding) and try to do something towards making amends (although nothing can ever bring the woman back to her husband and children.)

Everyone should learn to take responsibility for their actions, even when things go wrong.

farandawaysheran Sun 09-Dec-12 21:07:32

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giveitago Sun 09-Dec-12 21:08:47

Shelly you're digging yourself a hole. You first say something awful about the deceased and then you go on to clarify saying you blame the royal family.

Give it up. Hatred just seeps through.

I find it bizarre the incident happened via a nurse. Why on earth didn't the hospital have a procedure in place whereby all calls for or about this person where put through to a press officer.

However, this doesn't take away from the fact that a prank has set in motion a really horrible chain of events. Two teenage children are hurting so much because their mother was a victim of a 'prank' intended for the member of the royal family.

Bunbaker Sun 09-Dec-12 21:08:52

But Shelley. It simply isn't funny. Regardless of who was in hospital, phoning to find out medical details of a patient is.not.funny. It is just inappropriate and in bad taste. I don't get why you don't understand that.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:11:37

Hulababy, I agree with most of what you say It was immature too but isn't that what makes most things funny? Maybe it says more about me!!
Farandawaysheran you might though..

Hulababy Sun 09-Dec-12 21:13:36

Well - I didn't find it funny. But then I have never found that kind of thing funny. I prefer other types of humour - not trying to embarrass other people.

giveitago Sun 09-Dec-12 21:14:06

"Would you ever think of impersonating the Queen? Would you ever think you'd get away with it? I doubt thoe Djs did either!! "

No I wouldn't think of impersonating the queen - no idea what she sounds like. If I took a call from the 'queen' I'd have no idea if it where her or not either. The poor lady wouldn't have known really would she? And she took the call as a 'gatekeeper' and put it through to another nurse who gave a few details.

Shelly - this nurse is not you - She's probably a person who has very high personal standards and felt very bad. She may not have been able to laugh it off in the face of international publicity like you obviously would have done.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:15:01

Giveitago Maybe I'm not explaining myself clearly enough. I don't actually blame anyone. I was being facetious when saying the Royals had 'previous' when it came to getting rid of people who embarrassed them. I'm so sorry the nurse killed herself and left her children to suffer. I just think it wasn't worth it.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 21:15:04

Ok shelly let me throw this at you.

Would you still think it a funny prank if your mum was the nurse that had taken her life?

Would you?

farandawaysheran Sun 09-Dec-12 21:15:55

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Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:16:24

Let me throw this back..would you leave your children over this 'shame'? I wouldn't.

Hulababy Sun 09-Dec-12 21:17:02

I'm so sorry the nurse killed herself and left her children to suffer.

I'm sorry Shelley - but this really does read as though you lay some blame on the nurse for what she has left behind. I am hoping you didn't mean it to sound like that - but to me it does.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:17:46

Thank you. I'm not a bad person.

kim147 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:18:27

shelley No one can understand the mind of a suicide victim. No one can truly know what is going on when they take the decision to end it and to leave behind loved ones.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 21:18:51

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notanotter Sun 09-Dec-12 21:19:42

I'm with the op.Silly prank went wrong. No ones fault. No one to blame - just tragic and regrettable

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:20:21

I really don't blame her. I just don't think anyone or anthing is worth taking your life over, esp if you have babies. It's something I really struggle with.. I guess my kittens are my life, my everything and nothing comes before them. I would imagine every Mama feels like that..

kim147 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:21:01

shelley There have been too many people who have committed suicide and left behind loved ones for reasons that appear to be trivial in the scheme of things.

I'm glad you wouldn't do that.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:22:11

Kim Maybe you're right and I don't understand.
Everlong How am I a coward? Odd....

kim147 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:22:21

The only thing that kept me going last summer was my DS. I could never leave him. But life was very very hard and I was struggling to see my future.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:25:10

Kim147 I'm sorry X

JustFabulous Sun 09-Dec-12 21:25:45

"Let me throw this back..would you leave your children over this 'shame'? I wouldn't."

Shelly, read that again ^. Did you seriously think that, type it and mean it?

Words fail me.

JustFabulous Sun 09-Dec-12 21:27:55

"I would imagine every Mama feels like that.."

ANd when you are mentally ill (not saying the nurse was as I don't know) you don't think straight. God help you, shelly should you ever become mentally ill or anyone in your family does.

RedToothbrush Sun 09-Dec-12 21:28:16

Shelly, I think you need to be reminded about a couple of important points about this 'prank'.

1) First and foremost THEY CALLED A HOSPITAL. So regardless of how ridiculous they were being or how likely it was they would get through to the Duchess or get information, they were WASTING THE TIME OF BUSY HEALTH PROFESSIONALS charged with looking after sick people.

What is your justification for this? Is this funny? Funny like prank calls to the emergency services, funny?

2) This wasn't a prank call. This was a stunt organised by a radio station that went through various procedures to decide if they were legally liable for something. Note this bit. They went to great effort to make sure that what they were doing wouldn't land them in legal trouble. So they were concerned about what they were doing and thought there was a serious side to this. People who were professionally trained, and had previously had experience of the poor handling of other issues surrounding media ethics and had been punished for it. We aren't talking about a few jokers here. We are talking about experienced broadcasters and lawyers. They were looking to profit either financially or through promotion - which generally isn't an aspect of a simple prank call.

3) Even when they got complaints before the death, they continued to laugh about it. Even though it was already obvious that the people involved were going to face some sort of repercussions; either through disciplinary action or trial by media. They still thought it was funny to laugh about it and call it the 'peak of their career'.

So yeah, if you want to carry on saying that people on this thread have a lack of a sense of humour I suggest you really really think about whats happened and what constitutes a prank and what clearly goes beyond the limits of professional behaviour and common decency without any regard for ethics for their own personal profit.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:29:17

I say things without thinking sometimes. I have only my experience and don't always consider others' experiences. I just know from my experince (so far) that my girls are my all, my reason for being, as you probably did. I 'm sure the same thing goes for other peope but other things pull them in different directions. I can't begin to try to explain it as I can't begin to understand it; however I have suffered depression and know how low it can take you..just not been that low I guess

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 21:30:09

redtoothbrush you rock wink

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:31:38

I think some of you are directing your anger at the wrong person...Harsh and unfair ..

JustFabulous Sun 09-Dec-12 21:32:09

SHelly, you have no idea.

Be grateful.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:34:49

Redtoothbrush And I bet you sing 'Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep'to your kids. Legislation and what you can legally do/can't do doesn't rock.

somuchslimmernow Sun 09-Dec-12 21:35:24

Shelly, I apologise for calling you a moron but I was offended by your first post (which was deleted so I was not the only one) some very good points have been raised tonight, I hope you have got over your depression and I know what you mean about our children being our reason for living.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:36:03

I am justfabulous I was poorly, just wouldn't do that.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:37:57

Somuchslimmernow It's cool. I know how het up it can get on here. I say some stupid things on here and I do in realife too, hence my small circle of friends. I 'll learn one day...

farandawaysheran Sun 09-Dec-12 21:38:16

No one can understand the mind of a suicide victim. No one can truly know what is going on when they take the decision to end it and to leave behind loved ones.

I made a similar point on a different thread yesterday and got flamed - apparently lots of MN posters know exactly what caused this poor woman to take her life.

Several more, it seems, want someone somewhere to pay for this tragedy.

If none of us posting this evening can imagine a state of mind that would make it ok to kill ourselves and leave our little ones alone always wondering why, then I think we can assume that her state of mind must be, to we laymen, utterly unfathomable.

In which case, to pronounce this desperate act as the automatic consequence of what, on the surface, sounds like an innocuous cock-up (putting a call through without thinking it through), is nothing short of mind-reading.

I know from personal experience that those left behind after acts of suicide will always ask why.

The sad fact is that we will probably never know the whole treason she did it.

But is it fitting that one legacy of that tragic death is all these posters heaping spite and judgement on complete strangers?

GalaxyDisaster Sun 09-Dec-12 21:38:34

Yes. It is just like that. I am not sure I have ever been a point so missed Shelly. It is not about political correctness. It is about cruelty. I am not sure what I can add other than if I repeated my long post from.earlier.

LondonNinja Sun 09-Dec-12 21:38:51

Shelly, not everyone's as robust as you.

Quite likely this poor nurse - described as conscientious and deeply caring - was probably feeling humiliated, ashamed and possibly felt she had let her family down - as well as her employers. Who knows if her kids had received teasing because of her innocent error? Anything could have happened - and whatever you or I think, it would appear that Jacintha felt so cowed and so low after this shitty, moronic stunt that she couldn't face anyone.

Fucking stupid DJs.

flippinada Sun 09-Dec-12 21:39:36

Some people just like to dive right into a hole and keep on digging, don't they?

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:40:28

Thanks I am over it, have been for a few years and NEVER want to go back there! I refuse to!

kim147 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:40:50

I think people should lay off Shelley now. A point's been made.

somuchslimmernow Sun 09-Dec-12 21:42:28

I agree Kim.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 21:42:41

I would have thought shelly that after being in a dark place you'd have some empathy for those not as strong as you.

Apparently not.

farandawaysheran Sun 09-Dec-12 21:47:00

I think anyone who's been in a dark place both understands and has reason to be grateful for gallows humour.

This thread has taken an ironically bullying turn.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 21:47:09

Erm just because someone reverse gears it doesn't retract from the hurtful stuff they've already said hmm

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 21:48:53

It doesn't get much darker where I am and no I don't appreciate that sort of humour.

Soz.

RedToothbrush Sun 09-Dec-12 21:49:53

Shelly what was the need in that, unless you are deliberately trying to stir a reaction out of people now you are being shown to have incredibly weak arguments on this.

Usually when people start throwing insults like that, its because they can't think of a proper intelligent response. Perhaps when you are able to articulate one you should try again and debate it properly.

But then you are trying to defend the indefensible.

Truth is even the vile British Press wouldn't have put something like this on this pages as a 'prank' - they would do it to highlight flaws in security, but they wouldn't do it to just laugh at.

So if you are being more repellant that our press or agreeing someone in that position you should probably be looking in the mirror and asking some rather hard questions of yourself.

OhDearNigel Sun 09-Dec-12 21:51:33

I don't agree with your viewpoint Shelley but I do agree there is little point in flogging a dead horse. We can all agree to differ without getting personal surely ?

kim147 Sun 09-Dec-12 21:51:52

"This thread has taken an ironically bullying turn."

Indeed.

LondonNinja Sun 09-Dec-12 21:52:48

Oh, bloody hell.

If people cannot take it, then don't dole it out. The DJs who are now 'fragile' and being counselled etc - well, hmm. Hmm fucking hmm. Too bad Jacintha's welfare or state of mind wasn't given one crumb of thought (apart from to make more milage from their actions). Makes me so angry on behalf of that bereaved family.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 21:55:45

Sorry Nigel I'm a little touchy where suicide is concerned.
Funnily enough.

LondonNinja Sun 09-Dec-12 21:57:47

Who is being bullied here?

All I see is someone's viewpoint being disagreed with. This is debate, not bullying...

You could argue that people who have been through family grief having humour directed at their experiences are being treated rather badly.

krystianah Sun 09-Dec-12 21:57:53

Hasn't this already been dealt with in another thread? MN posters described how they had made mistakes at work, which they still feel tormented about years later. I think even somebody with superb mental health and no ishoos could be made to feel very desperate over this. I'm not sure I could cope. I freak about a typo. Poor woman. I feel choked every time I see her face in the news. Not so much sympathy for the DJs. In fact none. How can you be able to broadcast without consent when it's not, in any way, in the public interest.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 21:59:26

Indeed London wink

flippinada Sun 09-Dec-12 22:00:16

Yes it is somewhat ironic that the DJs are getting plenty of support in the form of intensive counselling etc.

I wonder what support Ms Saldanha was offered. Not that it necessarily would have made a difference, but it might have.

OhDearNigel Sun 09-Dec-12 22:03:10

I can't believe that the hospital didn't have a password set up for the D of C. When we have a media-interest victim/offender in hospital (I am police) eg. Murder victim all agencies and family have a password that they quote to be allowed access to information about then. All medical staff know that anyone wuithout the password doesn't get info.
I actually don't think anyone comes out of this well - the hospital for failing to have proper procedures in place, the nursing staff who breached the DoC's confidentiality, the DJs who have boasted about it or the radio station who should have declined to play such an obviously explosive piece of "pranking"

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 22:05:00

Londonninja You are allowed to disagree with me. I don't particularly like having my intellect called in to question though, esp. not over a viewpoint that can't be proven or disproved.

OhDearNigel Sun 09-Dec-12 22:05:29

Everlong, I was not actually referring to you

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Sun 09-Dec-12 22:05:36

I think it's quite likely that whatever their protestations the hospital were getting ready to hang her and her colleague out to dry, rather than take responsibility, as they should, for failure to maintain proper procedures to deal with this sort of risk. That would, unfortunately, be pretty standard procedure for that type of institution, in my experience. No hospital ever willingly assumes responsibility for any failing, unless the gun's being held to its head.

RedToothbrush Sun 09-Dec-12 22:06:00

There was an interesting article written by Steve Penk (British Radio DJ who made his name doing prank calls on Key103 and Capital Radio amongst others) and the future for prank calls on yahoo.

He reckons this will effectively end the practice. But the thing that struck me was he sort the permission of those involved BEFORE broadcast.

I don't like pranks at all, and always avoided listening to Penk as I hated what he did. But I do see that its a lot better to seek permission before broadcast to minimise distress and legal issues to all concerned.

So when all is said and done, just this simple thing could have stopped this result.

However I rather suspect there was a bloody good reason the radio station didn't go down this route. They knew it would be refused... and that to me is where the line between joke and not a joke clearly needs to rest if you have a target in this way. Its one thing to crack an anti-royal joke, but quite another to go to lengths like this that involve the presence of third parties that are completely innocent.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 22:06:02

I was a little hmmm about the lack of a password too..

farandawaysheran Sun 09-Dec-12 22:07:27

You could also argue that we all, with direct experience of famy grief, cope in our own ways.

My point, which I've been making with arse aching monotony for most of the day, is that none of us know how other people are really feeling inside and what despair lurks under the surface.

So we could all learn to be a bit kinder and more generous of spirit tp the strangers we interact with here daily.

Would that be a more fitting legacy that baying for revenge?

It's been a fascinating discussion. peaceful goodnight to all.

babytrasher Sun 09-Dec-12 22:07:51

Even if they did not expect to succeed, they set out intending to get a medical professional to reveal confidential info: this is a gross misconduct offence, instantly sackable w/o compensation.

They are equivalent, morally and (I think) legally, to joy-riders who kill a pedestrian: they set out to kool themselves up in the eyes of their primarily teen audience, but got it wrong. They did not intend that anyone should die, but it was a possible consequence of their action and they must accept responsibility for it.

I hope that the "intensive counseling" that they are alleged to be receiving consists of an Outback-style directive to "deal with it", rather than a Sidney-style "It's not your fault". angry angry angry angry angry

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 22:08:10

Oh confused Nigel I just presumed....as I haven't agreed with shelly

giveitago Sun 09-Dec-12 22:09:25

"Let me throw this back..would you leave your children over this 'shame'? I wouldn't. "

No , you wouldn't. But now you're saying she suffered 'shame'. You know that for a fact? You are again insulting her character.

That hole gets bigger - you might not think before you post but you are responsible for what you post. You might think one thing but if people don't agree with you then they don't. I don't get the culture of hatred so I don't get you.

I agree ohdear re the hospital handling of this ie having a coordinator to deal with press and any other interest, even that of relatives.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 22:16:44

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LondonNinja Sun 09-Dec-12 22:20:49

Shelly, ideally no one should have their intellect called into question in a debate but I think you have caused hurt by some of the things you said about suicide. That is fact. (I am not picking a fight with you btw.)

Speaking generally in relation to poor Jacintha, I just cannot abide some people's casualness with what others go through in life. No one has the right to assume a person will feel this or do that just because it's what they'd feel/do.

Welovecouscous Sun 09-Dec-12 22:25:53

YABU - this was very risky behaviour by them

flippinada Sun 09-Dec-12 22:26:56

I agree LondonNinja

I wish people speculating on what Ms Saldanha's frame of mind was and how she must have had mental health issues etc would pack it in. It's really disrespectful and inappropriate.

Shelly32 Sun 09-Dec-12 22:28:22

Londonninja I know you're not! I don't think I've said anything intentionally insulting about suicide. Apologies to anyone if I have. I think I just said I didn't understand what would cause a mother to do this over something that I (personally) see as pretty trivial. I wasn't meaning to be casual or insensitive. Clearly it's been taken in that manner but that's the risk you take when you can't see people face to face, hear tone of voice or see facial expression/body language.

peaceandlovebunny Sun 09-Dec-12 23:04:14

you could be absolutely rock solid mentally previously, and be brought to the point of suicide by global humiliation. stop blaming the victim.

giveitago Sun 09-Dec-12 23:06:13

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wannaBe Sun 09-Dec-12 23:14:19

I am shock at the double standards and hypocrisy expressed on this thread.

So, a woman receives a hoax call, puts it through to a relevant department and because of the stress caused to her by the backlash commits suicide over it. And that is tragic - of course it is, and posters express their upset and anger and whatever other emotions they feel over it, and anyone who dares go against that is jumped on.

Two DJ's make a prank call to a London hospital. A call which was of course ill advised, but which ended up in a woman killing herself - an outcome which nobody could possibly have foreseen. They are reportedly distraught over it, one of them is believed to be on the verge of a breakdown, and they are receiving counselling. But we must not feel sympathy for them because they don't deserve it. Even though they made a mistake and did something they shouldn't have. A stupid act yes, but had they known what the outcome would be there is surely no doubt that that call wouldn't have been made.

Imagine if you did something stupid and someone died as a result. Would you feell you were undeserving of sympathy, even if your actions weren't deliberate? really?

That nurse made a mistake in the public eye. The two dj's did something stupid and are being publically ridiculed for it. The only diffference here is that one person killed herself over her mistake, the others did not. If you have compassion for her, then surely it follows that you should have compassion for them. The outcome of this was entirely unforeseeable.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 09-Dec-12 23:23:55

Not comparable. Sorry.

The dj's didn't make a mistake.

There was always somebody going to get hurt/in trouble/lose their job if their prank worked.

andapartridgeinaRowantree Sun 09-Dec-12 23:38:53

Wannabe thank you. That's exactly the poiny I was making when I set up the thread.

I feel sorry for all parties.

giveitago Sun 09-Dec-12 23:51:29

Jacintha didn't make a mistake in that she genuinely thought the callers were from family and put it through. She was a victim of a prank.

cornflowers Sun 09-Dec-12 23:51:34

Wannabe I agree entirely. A little compassion would not go astray.

RedToothbrush Sun 09-Dec-12 23:54:28

wannbe the outcomes that WERE foreseeable and highly likely aren't paltable in my book, and I do see clear parallels between this and health and safety incidents involving corporate or publicly owned bodies on physical health - except this is a mental health issue.

Thats the problem for me. And in those cases I do believe that people have to be held responsible at the radio station from the top down unfortunately.

The highly questionable decisions aren't not just a simple decision but a catalogue of them in succession with a total lack of regard for anyone else's well being.

And I do think you have to immediately put it in terms of well being, because this was targeted on a sick young woman.

So 1) You are targeting someone sick and vulnerable. Its not difficult to understand that it was entirely possible that the Duchess's condition could have been fair worse than publicly announced
2) You get through and get told information that you shouldn't and still allow it to be broadcast; and if you are the DJ and this goes over your head fine - but certainly the male DJ was laughing about it and making crass remarks about it being very good
3) You don't seek consent of those involved. Mainly because you know full well this was going to be refused as it would cause upset.
4) You get the lawyers in to check you haven't broken the law. Thus unwittingly acknowledging this could be quite a bit deal and theres a real possibility that you've already broken the law or could get your arse sued over this. But you decide to take the risk knowing the potential reward. And then even after the tragic death the radio station keeps pushing the point that they hadn't done anything illegal instead of ultimately manning up and taking responsibility.
5) And thats all before taking into the consideration the consequences to third parties who could easily loose their jobs over such an incident - got nothing to do with mental health but every bit as serious and not a laughing matter for anyone caught in the cross fire.
6) You do things that the British Press have a self imposed code of conduct not to do.
7) This particular radio station had previous on poor ethics, and they should have taken action previously to educate staff and prevent incidents like this from happening again. And if more junior members of staff were failed in this duty, they still should have been aware of the incident and been more conscious of ethical issues themselves to protect themselves.
8) This was organised and premeditated. Unlike the nurse put on the spot and deliberately lied to and misled.

You can not put a parallel between what happened to the nurse and what the DJs took a leading and active role in.

I could go on about the sheer number of things and points where alarm bells could and should have gone off and were ignored because profit and self promotion were the priority rather than anything else.

If a corporate body don't maintain their machinery properly and this poses a potential physical risk to the life or health of the general public even if this is highly unlikely event and the most extreme outcomes are beyond what people thought was possible, and there was no intent to harm anyone, the company and those individuals responsible within the company can still be held responsible. The question that is asked in these cases is, what are you reasonably able to predict and did you do everything within your power to minimise the risk of physical harm to others.

The fact this happens to be mental rather than physical harm seems to give people a completely different attitude to responsibility. And the fact that its resulted in a suicide means that people take the attitude that it was beyond the limits of prediction. But that misses the point of just how much damage WAS predictable and the radio station seemingly judged as acceptable.

And its in THIS context, that I have an extremely hard time giving sympathy to those responsible. Because it wasn't a simple stupid mistake. It was not a 'prank'. It was a massive public stunt that all concerned staked their reputation and image on. It was deeply calculated and carried on over the course of events. It was a corporate level mistake with many people responsible within the radio station. Its not just the DJs - and I personally feel those behind them are hiding behind them in many respects.

flow4 Mon 10-Dec-12 00:32:27

I agree with wannabe.

I am curious to know what people would think if one of the DJs was now so filled with guilt that s/he committed suicide (heaven forfend)...?

Narked Mon 10-Dec-12 03:11:03

'an outcome which nobody could possibly have foreseen'

Maybe not, but there are many things that could have been forseen.

Phoning a hospital to con staff into giving out patient information is going to have consequences. It might well cause someone to lose their job, be suspended, officially reprimanded etc etc. That's a fairly likely consequence isn't it?

Recording someone being 'pranked' when you have no idea who you're talking to is a risk isn't it? If you do it often enough, you're going to do it to someone who's having a tough time in their personal life, someone with a history of depression etc etc. I'm not saying this poor woman had any issues, simply that in any given population you will find a good % of people do have these kind of issues. If you make 10 calls the odds are you'll get at least one person who is vunerable. That's forseeable.

If you humiliate someone on a global scale it's likely to cause them great personal distress. That was forseeable.

The DJs themselves were stupid and callous but the radio station is the one that pays them - and others - to do this kind of thing to get the ratings. It makes money from it. It was already effectively on probation from Australian regulators. The station is the one that decided it was ok to 'prank' a hospital. The station approved the tape. The station is making a big deal about how no laws have been broken, as though that is what matters.

And it's odd how the station is suddenly aware of the emotional toll intense media attention can have shock , accusing the UK media of stirring up a frenzy and commenting on the distress of the presenters.

seeker Mon 10-Dec-12 03:23:40

"Jacintha didn't make a mistake in that she genuinely thought the callers were from family and put it through. She was a victim of a prank"
She did make a mistake. She put a call through which if she had had a hint of training on how to deal with calls about a high profile patient she would have dealt with very differently. Or actually how to deal with calls about patients full stop- high profile or not.'

wannaBe Mon 10-Dec-12 03:32:40

yes she made a mistake. She shouldn't have put that call through. the woman (who had the most god awful accent you could possibly imagine) said "oh can I speak to my granddaughter, Kate?" Let's not even start on the other one who gave out information while someone was blathering on in the background and while others were woofing badly like dogs....

The call shouldn't have been made but it was blatantly obvious that it was a hoax. The fact that not one, but two members of staff fell for it was down to them and them alone. It wasn't even remotely plausible, in fact the general feeling was that it was entirely made up, until the hospital issued an apology. The fact that the hospital did not have protocols in place to deal with incoming calls to that hospital at any given hour was down to poor management. This wasn't a well thought out scam designed to suck people in, it was a blundering phone call which no-one actually believed would come to anything. If two muppets from a radio station could get through that easily, who else would have been able to?

No they shouldn't have called, but they did, and that was their responsibility. But equally they shouldn't have been able to get through, but they did, and the responsibility for that was down to the two members of staff who fell for their act. An act which wasn't plausible in the slightest.

What happens if one of those DJ's kills himself in the face of the worldwide criticism he is now receiving. Criticism which is much harsher than that
directed at the nurse who put through his call.

How in fact do we not know that either of those DJ's is suffering from mental illness? fact is we don't.

AppearingDignified Mon 10-Dec-12 04:12:10

I'm so angry with the way the Aussie media is now handling it; accusing the UK of the blame game arguing that they did nothing wrong.

Does something have to be enshrined in law to make it wrong/ morally reprehensible?

I loathe prank calls, turn them off or turn over if they are on the radio they are a form of bullying in my opinion. "Ooh, look how gullible and stupid you are to take this call at face value". When i answer the phone I presume, obviously in a stupid and gullible fashion that the caller wishes to talk to me.

Immature wankers and apologising in a sincere fashion would be a great start.

Snowkey Mon 10-Dec-12 06:21:01

Feel very sorry for the nurse's family. Have suspicions that she got it in the neck from the hospital management who seem to have gone very quiet. The media as usual have reported on the prank call and blown it out of all proportion to sell papers, no wonder the poor woman felt under strain.
The DJs were stupid to do what they did but they could never have predicted the tragic outcome, very sad for all involved.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Mon 10-Dec-12 06:55:56

I really can't get my head around what seems like empathy from certain posters for the dj's.

They only have themselves to blame for whatever they might be going through right now.

Let's hope this is a lesson learned all round. Doubtful though.

CabbageLeaves Mon 10-Dec-12 07:02:09

I feel sympathy with the DJs because they are the public faces bearing the brunt of the reaction and their culpability is in my mind far far far smaller than that of the stations managers and advisors.

It was ill thought out. It was going to cause harm. Members of staff would lose their jobs and they had the chance to not broadcast.

I agree that failures occurred in the management of the communications in the hospital. One of those failures is allowing calls to get through to a nurses station.

Managers are to blame here....on both sides

Morloth Mon 10-Dec-12 07:02:56

And now they have gone on A Current Affair and Today Tonight* to talk about how gutted they are and we are now being told we need to feel sorry for them, poor things.

Both scummy shows in their own right.

Because of course this is all about them and how upset and sad they are.

Honestly, what a clusterfuck.

I don't feel sorry for the DJs at all.

I do wonder if the nurse was worried that the royals would take legal action against her, given their reaction to those topless photos earlier this year.

I'm not questioning whether the previous legal action was right or wrong, just wondering if it may have had a bearing here.

JustFabulous Mon 10-Dec-12 07:34:10

Just seen an Australian DJ interviewed and I am disgusted by what he said and the fact that Lorraine didn't pull him up on them.

ClaudiaSchiffer Mon 10-Dec-12 07:43:24

Another point of view

Another Aussie tv journalist who was involved in a report resulting in a similar tradgedy writes about her experience. Pretty grim all round.

I think it's massively ironic that the news media who stoked this whole affair are now baying for the blood of the 2 dj's - fools though they may be.

flippinada Mon 10-Dec-12 07:57:15

Interesting that many (not all) of the posts expressing sympathy for the two DJs are rather victim-blaming.

Essentially saying you know, how awful this woman died but basically its her own fault?

You know, she answered the phone at.five thirty in the morning, probably coming towards then end of a twelve hour shift. Nurses/midwives don't get programmed rest breaks (they should, but don't always) - they can be on their feet all that time.

She will have been exhausted, and factor in the fact she's not a native English speaker, she may not have picked up the nuances of accent. Its easy to say of course it was a fake in hindsight and when you're a native English speaker you can pick up inflections/tone/accent that someone who isn't a native speaker might not.

Of course the hospital has should have procedures in place to deal with this sort of thing, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if what actually happened at the hospital is different to the official line.

flippinada Mon 10-Dec-12 08:05:12

That's an interesting and thoughtful article Claudia thanks for the link.

I expect how the djs feel is genuine, because it must be unimaginably horrific having hatred beamed at you from the round the globe.

wannaBe Mon 10-Dec-12 08:24:43

oh fgs it's not victim blaming to suggest that the call shouldn't have made it through. It shouldn't have. And no 5:30 at the end of shift isn't good enough reasoning - what other mistakes would we let go through on a medical ward at that time of the morning...

This woman didn't bring it on herself, her death is tragic, no-one is disputing that. But equally these dj's have now become victims of the media they represent. But it's presumably ok to blame them since they're not dead. Maybe people won't be happy until they are? hmm

Two wrongs don't make a right.

andapartridgeinaRowantree Mon 10-Dec-12 08:28:37

It's clear from the interview with the djs they expected whet would normally happen in circumstances like this. A security agent would pick up the phone and tell them to get lost.

I agree with the poster who said managers in both side bare responsibility. The hospital for not having adequate security in place and the radio station management for playing the recording. It should have been canned.

laptopdancer Mon 10-Dec-12 08:47:33

There was what they expected and then there was what happened, was reviewed in full and allowed to go on air.

farandawaysheran Mon 10-Dec-12 08:49:22

seeker and wannaBe make logical observations.

There were two wrongs:

1. the DJs even thinking that they could pull this off, fully (and correctly) expecting an earful of dial tone or a crisp blocking from the person in charge of security.

2. A hospital that had not provided adequate and robust security training for all staff. Most private insituations feeling with high profile clients have this as a matter of course. There are strict procedures and protocols in place which are regularly tested and often they will hire outside organisations to 'hack' them to highlight potential areas of weakness and ensure the security necessities are kept at the front of everyone's minds.

I believe both of these situations contributed to the tragedy along with many other unknowns. To direct such ire and blame at just two players in this awful scenario is, as we have seen, dangerous.

LtXmasEve Mon 10-Dec-12 08:56:33

It's clear from the interview with the djs they expected whet would normally happen in circumstances like this. A security agent would pick up the phone and tell them to get lost

See, that now makes me feel less sympathy for them, not more. Having now seen clips of them on the news I'm afraid their self-justification has made me far angrier with them than I was before.

1. They 'pranked' a hospital. On what planet is a hospital a good target? A place where sick people go, a place where people die. A place where people get the best and the worst news. Somewhere where staff are run off their feet, where things can go from great to shit in the blink of an eye.

2. There was a sick woman at the centre of all this. Someone who could have been losing her baby (or in extreme cases, her life) as they are making jokes at her expense.

3. They could have lost people their jobs. It would have been very easy for the hospital management to sack either of the nurses.

4. They caused global humiliation for this poor lady. Even if she hadn't killed herself can you imagine trying to live with that? Can you imagine being her teenage children going to school the next day "Your mum's the dickhead on YouTube" Children have been bullied for far less.

I would have had far more sympathy and even admiration had the two DJs come out and said "We were idiots, we didn't think this through, we shouldn't have done it and we'll never do something so stupid again" rather than whining "But we didn't know this would happen"

(and one the interview I saw, the presenter/interviewer had me shouting at the TV "Oh I hope someone is looking after you, you seem so depressed" grrrr, save your compassion for the two kids waking up without one of their parents)

clam Mon 10-Dec-12 09:00:31

I don't see that Jacintha made a mistake. As a few of us have pointed out, English was not her first language, and she therefore was less likely to spot an Australian attempting to imitate the Queen. However, the hospital management (and the Royals' security team) should have had robust procedures in place for such calls coming through. All staff should have been trained; it looks like poor Jacintha wasn't.
And the Australian radio station team are in it up to their necks - they are the ones who knew darn well they shouldn't have broadcast it, as evidenced by the fact they're saying they tried 5 times to get through for permission, like that vindicates them. In fact, it proves that they knew they needed permission, didn't get it, and yet went ahead and aired it anyway.

seeker Mon 10-Dec-12 09:05:37

The nurses were let down my their managers- and the DJs were let down by theirs. Let's put the blame where it belongs.

flippinada Mon 10-Dec-12 09:08:28

I think the hospital certainly should bear some responsibility, and I do think it is victim blaming to insist that Ms Saldanha should take responsibility for what happened.

The fact remains that the DJs who made the prank call are indirectly responsible for her death, whether they intended it or not, and as had been stated previously lack of intent doesn't mean you aren't culpable.

The intent behind the call, as with most prank calls, was mean spirited and cruel and how utterly humiliating to have it broadcast nationally with everyone saying you should be sacked/laughing at you. That's what happened to Ms Saldanha.

I'm not surprised they are in a state given how events have developed and I do feel a measure of sympathy for them - but where was Ms Saldanha's support?

QuickLookBusy Mon 10-Dec-12 09:10:46

LTXmas, I agree with you. I feel more anger now.

Why do they feel the need to try to justify themselves on TV? They could have released a statement apologising profusely and offering to set up a trust fund for the nurse's family. No, they decide they'll go on TV and let everyone "see" how upset they are and victim blame.

Why do they feel the need to try to justify themselves on TV?

Perhaps the death threats they've been receiving from around the world played a hand in that decision?

Mass murderers have had better press than this pair.

LtXmasEve Mon 10-Dec-12 09:22:11

I will just say though, I certainly don't condone death threats and so on that have been levelled at these two idiots.

and yes, they were let down by their managers that should never have let this be broadcast in the first place.

I agree with QLB that I don't think they should have appeared on TV, and a suitably worded statement plus trust fund, or large donation to The Samaritans (or similar) would have sent a better message.

QuickLookBusy Mon 10-Dec-12 09:25:10

I don't realise they'd had death threats. That is awful and the people doing it should be tracked down and arrested.

However I still don't understand why going on TV would stop idiots sending death threats. I would think doing that would make it worse.

helenthemadex Mon 10-Dec-12 09:26:28

The dj's knew what they were doing, they made a decision to make the call and then broadcast it knowing full well that it would leave the nurses open to ridicule, humiliation and possibly loose their jobs.

Also because of who was involved, they must have known it would go global as it did, and now the backlash has gone global, tough tittie on them, they are publicity seeking knob jockeys who are now getting what they deserve

The nurses involved had no choice in the matter, they were unfortunate victims

Nancy66 Mon 10-Dec-12 09:27:41

the vitriol against this pair has reached ridiculous levels.

I understand the TV appearance. A simple statement would not have been enough for some people.

I feel sorrier than ever before for them.

natation Mon 10-Dec-12 09:30:37

It's bad enough that someone has lost their life over these events, please please can people stop writing there must have been something up with the lady who lost her life 1) because it's very disrespectful of her and very disrespectful for those she has left behind and 2) because it's just simply poor taste and wrong to speculate, it comes across as sort of seeking to blame the victim. Wait for the inquest before commenting.

LondonNinja Mon 10-Dec-12 09:31:54

I personally could do without seeing these DJs' faces plastered everywhere. Yes, they're sorry. I bet they bloody are. Actions have consequences - I am glad they are sorry - they should be - a woman has died. I find it deeply crass that the female DJ says she wanted to 'reach out and hug' the kids though.

Of course the DJs don't deserve death threats but they are not victims. To say so is ridiculous; the only victims of this stupid phone call were Jacintha, her family and the DoC, whose privacy was invaded.

Oh and Jacintha - poor woman - picked up the phone at 5.30am in the quiet ward as the receptionist was not there. So quit harping on about lack of training etc. Bloody hell, she was in the wrong place at the wrong time, trying to help - stop making her out to be incompetent.

It's about time people learn to have boundaries - that goes for the DJs and their pathetic employers, the intrusive media and those who feel they can judge what drives - or is good enough to drive someone to suicide.

But it wasn't just the DJs having a bright idea to call the hospital. It was pre recorded and apparently the station attempted to call back to get the nurses permission for secretly recording their conversation.

So the radio station knew they were on dodgy legal ground...

farandawaysheran Mon 10-Dec-12 09:32:33

Whether English was her first language or not is completely irrelevant.

Without knowing and implementing the correct protocol, thus compromising the security and medical confidentiality of the patient, absolutely anybody, whatever their grasp of the nuances or accent, could have made this mistake.

helenthemadex Mon 10-Dec-12 09:32:41

they appeared more sorry for themselves than for the victims of their joke, as others have said a very simple genuine apology would have meant more than bleating on about how they didnt know this would happen

farandawaysheran Mon 10-Dec-12 09:37:00

Nancy spot on.

Last week, the villains of the piece were the nurses and the victim the DoC.

I don't think anyone would agree that ended well.

Enough hysteria. As someone just said, we don't know anything about the state of mind of anyone anyone involved.

This witch hunt is sickening.

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LondonNinja Mon 10-Dec-12 09:42:29

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