To think they should reconsider the DJ's job since the nurse commited suicide?

(210 Posts)
MightTinge Fri 07-Dec-12 15:52:07

For some strange reason I felt cross when I read of her suicide. Was she in the wrong place at the wrong time? Should the DJ be punished or is it simple a
'Stunt gone wrong'?
After all look what happened with sachsgate. This was much worse IMO before her suicide.
I feel very sad for her children.


valiumredhead Fri 07-Dec-12 15:53:26

Blimey, I didn't know that had happened!

XBenedict Fri 07-Dec-12 15:54:59

I guess the DJs never thought for one moment it would come to this. However right from the start I thought it was an inappropriate "joke" to do.

CaliforniaSucksSnowballs Fri 07-Dec-12 15:55:54

Jokes to many feel like bullying to the recipient. They should get fired.

MyNutcrackerSuiteAudrina Fri 07-Dec-12 15:57:31

That is terrible! Poor lady and her children. I wonder what the palace will say / do?

diddl Fri 07-Dec-12 15:57:55

That is terrible.

And she was the one on reception who transferred it-not even the nurse who gave out details?

valiumredhead Fri 07-Dec-12 15:58:35

She probably realised it would be very hard to get another job if she was fired from her current job. Awful.

valiumredhead Fri 07-Dec-12 15:59:19

Oh goodness, so she wasn't even the nurse who disclosed details?

MightTinge Fri 07-Dec-12 15:59:29

No idea. Also, poor Kate. Feeling like shit, hormonal and then she'll hear of this.

The DJ should have been fired regardless of the suicide. But I feel sorry for him also, this never should have happened.

Fairylea Fri 07-Dec-12 15:59:39

That's awful sad she must have had underlying mental health issues I think... so sad.

KenLeeeeeee Fri 07-Dec-12 16:00:45

It's just awful. Her poor family.

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Fri 07-Dec-12 16:01:01

Actually, the DJs are not to blame at all. This was a silly prank with no real malice attached to it, and if the DJs are sacked then it will be another demonstration of the attitude that the royals are so fucking SPESHUL that taking the piss out of them means you have to suffer severe punishment.

Though I would imagine that if this is true which it may not be, then the woman must have had other problems far more serious than having put through a phone call about some posh bint's pregnancy.

Flyingfruit Fri 07-Dec-12 16:01:28

Of course they shouldn't be fired. It was a silly joke gone wrong and they will now have to live with the guilt of what's happened for the rest of their lives. The poor woman and her family.

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Fri 07-Dec-12 16:03:22

Right, it's only suspected suicide. Far more likely not to be, and it's being spun like that by pro-royal bucketheads to make this thoroughly unimportant joke into a far bigger deal than it should be.

kdiddy Fri 07-Dec-12 16:03:29

Tbh even without this horribly sad news, I thought they should have been sacked anyway. It's utterly pathetic to ring somewhere, tricking people into giving out sensitive and personal medical information and doing it all for entertainment. They couldn't have foreseen this but they could have anticipated they would be getting people into trouble just for their own ends. Just awful.

Aboutlastnight Fri 07-Dec-12 16:03:51

Although the thread on mumsnet calling for the nurse to be sacked was out of order too.

Bad business all round, really. I fon't know why people doing difficult stressful jobs can't be allowed to make the occasional non fatal mistake .

MrsSnow Fri 07-Dec-12 16:04:11

How sad. Her poor family must be devastated...

Aboutlastnight Fri 07-Dec-12 16:16:14

I think the nurse would have been under tremendous stress after this happened; carpeted at work, two small children, the enture world knowing the details of your mistake, probably after the pressure of caring for someone with such high status.

Sallyingforth Fri 07-Dec-12 16:16:55

Bad business all round, really. I fon't know why people doing difficult stressful jobs can't be allowed to make the occasional non fatal mistake.

She wasn't disciplined by the hospital. According to the BBC they supported her. But she must have felt desperately bad at letting down the nurse who she put the call through to, as well as the patient.

It was a disgusting trick to play on an innocent victim.

marchwillsoonbehere Fri 07-Dec-12 16:18:23

Also, poor Kate. Feeling like shit, hormonal and then she'll hear of this.

Yep that's it in a nutshell alright, poor Kate, boo hoo

Is there really no end to the forelock tugging that this country will perform to people who by accident of birth/marriage are more privileged than anyone has the right to be?

Poor Kate indeed....what about the poor nurse???? (All this said without knowing whether it was suicide or not...)

Tragic, tragic, tragic for so many reasons

FivesGoldNorks Fri 07-Dec-12 16:19:45

I've asked this on the other thread and no ones answered but isn't the station producer equally or more to blame?

Solidgold, if they get sacked I don't think it will be to do with the royal family. It will be because they played a prank which ended in suicide. I do take your point though.

SantaIAmSoFuckingRock Fri 07-Dec-12 16:19:50

this is awful that poor poor woman. and her family. this is devastating. i definitely think those djs should be fired now. their actions directly led to this.

BreconBeBuggered Fri 07-Dec-12 16:23:10

Whilst I think the prank calls were in poor taste to say the least, I can't help wondering whether I missed the inquest.

marchwillsoonbehere Fri 07-Dec-12 16:23:54

their actions directly led to this.

Sorry I really do disagree Santa.

If it is suicide then the ridiculous and unnecessary adoration in which the Royal Family is held led to this, in my view.

But in fact I feel dirty having even said this much. That poor girl....

Aboutlastnight Fri 07-Dec-12 16:24:52

Oh I am glad they were supportive at the hospital. The royal family were also very positive about the care received. Poor woman.

we fon't know the situation beforehand, she may well have been taking calls from royal representatives etc and never imagined it would be a prank call, who would?

FivesGoldNorks Fri 07-Dec-12 16:25:25

What about the producer though?

Mrsjay Fri 07-Dec-12 16:25:45

I hope they resign and then think about these stupid prank jokes I hate them and this 1 has had the most tragic ending just so sad, I hate all those prank radio calls so cruel and pointless ,

INeedThatForkOff Fri 07-Dec-12 16:27:00

Is there really no end to the forelock tugging that this country will perform to people who by accident of birth/marriage are more privileged than anyone has the right to be?

I think anyone at the centre of such a tragedy deserves sympathy tbh. So yes, poor Kate. It was the media that made such a fucking issue of it, not her afaik.

Sallyingforth Fri 07-Dec-12 16:27:13

I don't know the laws in Australia but here in the UK it is a criminal offence to obtain confidential personal information by deception.

The journos should be prosecuted.

Seabird72 Fri 07-Dec-12 16:27:50

It was a prank not meant in a malicious way BUT people really should think before playing jokes on others - you have no idea how fragile people can be and how one person might just brush it off and someone else not - the poor woman doesn't need to have had any other problems in her life or mental health issues (if she did how did she manage to hold down the job in the first place without anyone being concerned). I think she was terrified of the fallout of this and always being remembered as the person who put the call through to the nurses in the first place (the nurse would probably have said that as far as she was concerned the call was genuine and that it was the receptionist's job to identify the call as genuine) - we're told that the hospital were supportive - we don't know that for sure and she might have feared that spokepeople for the Royal Family would put pressure on the hospital to have her punished in some way, risking her job. It's a terrible terrible story - they say appears to be suicide but if not then it's a very odd that it just happens the same week that this goes down.

Cartoonjane Fri 07-Dec-12 16:29:02

Surely what really got to the poor woman wasn't the prank call itself but the publicity about it and what has been said and written about it and her. So AGAIN the bloody media!

NeedlesCuties Fri 07-Dec-12 16:29:29

I second what SolidGold and marchwillbe said.

Bakingnovice Fri 07-Dec-12 16:30:18

Poor Kate???!!!! This is not about bloody Kate!

My heart goes out to the nurse her family and friends.

Wishfulmakeupping Fri 07-Dec-12 16:30:45

I think they will have the sense a d decency to resign (I hope)
Yes it was a stunt but they said themselves during the prank 'I can't believe this working' it wouldn't have took a rocket scientist to work out that people working at the hospital were going to get in serious trouble over this, but they still carried on.
Remember this is the same station that was in trouble before about putting out inappropriate things they should have learned their lesson, yes the hospital processes should have ensured security of information was not breached but the radio station should have known better than to air this

Aboutlastnight Fri 07-Dec-12 16:30:47

Yes mumsnet is the media now...

AngryFeet Fri 07-Dec-12 16:31:11

It wasn't the receptionist by the sound of it - it was the actual nurse. She was on duty in the early hours and answered the phone as there was no receptionist there. Very sad but she must have had some underlying mental health issues surely?

marchwillsoonbehere Fri 07-Dec-12 16:31:22

I take your point forkoff and of course I bear Kate no ill will at all, but my point is that what she is or isn't feeling is hardly the hot issue here., and I can't belive taht anyone would expend any energy empathising with her in this case.

You are absolutely right though, they probablt thought it was funny, as Chaz obviously did.

Anyway I am now going to attempt to let that poor nurse rest in peace, My opinion really doesn't matter.

SoWhatIfImWorkingClass Fri 07-Dec-12 16:31:24

Those DJs should be ashamed of themselves, and, put more harshly, feel responsible for the poor nurse taking her own life.


Tailtwister Fri 07-Dec-12 16:32:07

I've just read this. What devastating news. I don't really know what to say apart from my sympathy goes to everyone involved. Of course we don't know the full details, but if it was linked to the prank call then that poor nurse must have felt incredible pressure.

diddl Fri 07-Dec-12 16:33:09

The call was answered & then put through to someone else, wasn´t it?

FivesGoldNorks Fri 07-Dec-12 16:33:43

what about the producer? Was this really up to the DJs?

MightTinge Fri 07-Dec-12 16:36:09

Of course poor nurse and her family. Thats why I stated my emotions to that in the OP And should the DJ be sacked for it.

My very first though was to the poor woman and then I hear she has children. Her family, its utterly tragic.

Later on, I thought of Kate. Not as a royal but as a pregnant woman, feeling like shit and having this on her plate. Id hate any one of you to have this kind of news to cope with.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Fri 07-Dec-12 16:37:08

The call was listened to by lawyers of the radio station, and the DJ's were given the go ahead to play it. They are not responsible for someone taking their life (if that is what has happened).

It is tragic, but it is not their fault. Radio stations do pranks all the time, personally i think these should be banned, then there will be no question of responsibility.

FivesGoldNorks Fri 07-Dec-12 16:38:21

Well it's not just the lawyers, who dreamt it up in the first place and added it to the schedule?

I thought the DJs milking of the incident after the fact was a lot more tedious and disasteful than the rather on-the-hoof prank itself, especially when they realised the amount of scrutiny the ordinary, very unfamous nurse was being publicly subjected to.

This incident has potentially car crash implications for the DJs and their producers beyond the mere (inevitable?) cancellation of their show too. I feel rather sorry for everyone concerned.

Surprised it's taking the radio station so long to release a statement.

SilverBaubles33 Fri 07-Dec-12 16:40:38

Actually, the DJs are not to blame at all. This was a silly prank with no real malice attached to it

I've known three people who've killed themselves, and they were absolutely, silently, grimly determined to do so. One had three children. It was devastating.

It is always easier to look for reasons or blame in these tragic circumstances, but please let's remember they played a silly trick. They didn't go to her house and actually kill her.

It was a tragedy. But it was also ultimately that poor lady's decision.

FivesGoldNorks Fri 07-Dec-12 16:41:41

Just because they didn't actually kill her doesn't mean they bear no responsibility for her death
(assuming this is suicide)

meditrina Fri 07-Dec-12 16:41:42

They cannot state it is suicide at present: only the Coroner can determine that. But the 'code' used in the BBC report is the normal one for when the authorities have clear reason to consider it suicide but have to await formalities.

Chubfuddler Fri 07-Dec-12 16:41:48

Of course ones first thoughts are with the nurse concerned and her family. And she must have been fragile for her to be driven to do this - if it is in fact suicide. But I'd be pretty upset if someone who had made a mistake in my care committed suicide. Anyone would be.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Fri 07-Dec-12 16:41:48

Obviously its not just the lawyers, the point is that it has obviously been ok'd by several people before it has been aired, meaning that the DJ's aren't the only ones responsible, however everyone is gunning for them and not anyone else.

HumphreyCobbler Fri 07-Dec-12 16:43:07

Oh my God this is awful. I have always thought that the impact of such a mistake, in the public eye with all the ensuing discussion, would be terrible to bear.

I feel so sorry for her family. And for Kate and William who will feel responsible. I don't see that makes me a forelock tugger hmm I also feel sorry for the DJs concerned. This is an unbelievably awful escalation of events.

She had children? sad

SantasLittleHo Fri 07-Dec-12 16:52:38

When I think of what happened with Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross where nobody died I do wonder how far reaching this will be? I just looked at the stations facebook page and its going bonkers.

Kayano Fri 07-Dec-12 16:53:28

people are contradicting themselves. you can't say that this is nothing to do with Kate in one post, the claim sacking the SHe would constitute special royal treatment.... how can it if it's nothing to do with Kate?

it wasn't that long ago Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross were in the shot for a prank call to that Fawlty Towers dude so that argument doesn't wash.

This thread was started because people are gutted about the poor nurse and her family, but the whole problem is that inexorably has had a tragic ripple effect. It's gone from an Australian Radio show, to the hospital and now resulted in a tragedy that was entirely avoidable if people purifiers first and not their ratings.

the ripple effect will of course continue, it doesn't just stop here. there is a pregnant woman whose condition through no fault of her own the whole world is being nosey about already feeling shot and who knows if she will feel guilty. she shouldn't, but that's the ripple so of course people can discuss Kate in relation to this.

absolutely people say the poor nurse first, and he poor family, but also saying poor Kate does not negate the original two statements. Don't be so pathetic to think it does.

Kayano Fri 07-Dec-12 16:55:25

please ignore my autocorrect. it is messing with me today

Greensleeves Fri 07-Dec-12 17:00:31

That is terrible! sad

forbiddenfruit85 Fri 07-Dec-12 17:08:41

I looked to see if they had released a statement via twitter.

When I clicked on their accounts, both have been removed.

jamdonut Fri 07-Dec-12 17:11:21

Poor Kate indeed...imagine how you would feel if one of the nurses who had been around while you were in hospital had killed themselves because someone thought it would be funny to prank call you,and they felt somehow responsible or under pressure because it got reported.
Just because she is a "royal" doesn't make it any less shocking for her. I imagine she feels a bit responsible as well, because, if the media didn't trip over themselves to get titbits about her,the nurse may well still be alive today.

I really hope that some lessons have been learned...but I doubt it.

Jokes to many feel like bullying to the recipient


AuntieMaggie Fri 07-Dec-12 17:22:29

I agree that Jokes to many feel like bullying to the recipient

AllSnowballsAndNoKnickers Fri 07-Dec-12 17:28:00

Seriously? A woman is dead in tragic circumstances - possibly but not yet definitely as a result of a fucking stupid prank by a pair of rent-a-gob DJ's and all you lot want to do is - once again - pile in with the anti-Royalist stuff? That just leaves me gobsmacked. There is a time and a place you know.

NetworkGuy Fri 07-Dec-12 17:33:30

I really hope that some lessons have been learned...but I doubt it.

Actually, I think quite the contrary. The DJs were in the wrong in the first place, but actually expected the phone to be put down, so they were (from what I have read) surprised they did get info.

The death of this nurse is a tragedy, and I'm sure we all are thinking of her and her family. It does seem quite difficult to understand, because the suggestions are that she was not being disciplined but supported by the Hospital (though clearly it was embarrassing - for her, the other nurse, and the Hospital - but at 5:30 after several hours on shift, I'd hope they considered it what it was... simple human error).

As for the DJs, yes, they will have this on their conscience, but they had already made some form of apology, and one would have hoped that would be an end to it. This tragic turn of events will not only shock them and their station management, but prank calls under the spotlight at any station, and should assume stations will reconsider, and not do prank calls where they might think there's a chance of someone being disciplined for falling for their prank.

So, so, sad that someone doing an important job (especially compared with being a radio DJ) has been lost from society. Can only imagine what was going through her mind. RIP Jacintha Saldanha.

maddening Fri 07-Dec-12 17:43:32

The hospital should have anticipated this and have a process for screening such calls - the hospital is as much to blame.

Also we are not party to conversations between the nurse and her employers - was more pressure than they are presenting placed on her for the transfer of the call?

FutureNannyOgg Fri 07-Dec-12 17:46:22

Stupid irresponsible prank, when is it ever OK or amusing to bother hospital staff with people to care for to extract personal information about a patient? It was never a good plan, but then it left an innocent woman who made a mistake at work 5.30 am exposed for criticism internationally. Imagine having millions of people all over the world hearing your voice and laughing at you. No one should have to deal with that uninvited.

ChippingInAWinterWonderland Fri 07-Dec-12 17:46:50

Really? You think someone else should be made to pay for this? This poor woman took her life, quite possibly partly due to the 'baying for blood' that was going on. Is that not enough for you - must there be someone else hounded?

If you insist on finding someone to blame - then look at the producer, not the 'lacky' who carried it out.

joanbyers Fri 07-Dec-12 17:57:29

this is really not the thread to be making bitter comments about William/Kate/anybody.


AllSnowballsAndNoKnickers Fri 07-Dec-12 18:06:41

I think it's important to consider this - the pranksters were not playing a joke on the Royal Family were they? They were playing a joke on the nursing staff. I wonder quite what they had in mind when they hatched that plan.

complexnumber Fri 07-Dec-12 18:07:56

Why shouldn't someone target the lackeys? If the justification by the media for prank calling a sick woman and taking photos of her from a mile way is that she put herself in the public eye then the same goes for the DJs. Why shouldn't they experience the consequences of the actions they chose to take and the job they chose to do?

katykuns Fri 07-Dec-12 18:17:46

The DJ's should lose their jobs. I know they never intended things to end up like this, but their stupid actions caused this... it's something you teach children... actions have consequences. Pulling a stupid prank (which isn't even funny?) that puts the nursing staff in a difficult position is an action that will have consequences.

Although, I do feel like the media is actually more to blame for her doing this really. People may think it's stupid that someone would end their life over it... but when has suicide been logical? She had every media outlet discuss her action as if she was stupid. Poor woman... and her poor family. Such.a.waste.

diddl Fri 07-Dec-12 18:18:54

It´s a whole catalogue of errors, really.

That there was no protocol in place at the hospital seems unbelievable.

Surely they might have suspected that someone might try to get info?

I read somewhere that the phonecall was at 5.30-so the woman who answered probably just wasn´t thinking/not trained in reception protocol(?)-compounded by the nurse who then took the call & gave out info.

diddl Fri 07-Dec-12 18:21:07

But at a most basic level I think that tying up a hospital phone to play a prank is disgusting.

SDTGisAChristmassyWolefGenius Fri 07-Dec-12 18:25:17

The problem with 'pranks' like this is that they rely on some innocent person falling for them, if they are going to work - all well and good if you know the person you are pranking, and know they will take it as a joke, but that clearly wasn't the case in this instance. The DJs were pranking total strangers, and I doubt they gave even the most fleeting thought to any harm that might be caused.

At the least, this radio station should stop playing pranks like these, and the DJs should apologise for the harm caused.

ChippingInAWinterWonderland Fri 07-Dec-12 18:31:12

<sigh> KatyKuns - if your boss told you to do something and it went spectacularly wrong, would you expect to lose your job, or would you expect your boss and a legal team to be the ones copping the shit?

The radio DJ should apologise on air and resign.

They knew in my opinion that someone could lose their jobs.

Even after they knew of her death and after the DJs had deleted their twitter they continued to air the prank and it was still on their Facebook. For that reason alone and for the fact they previously forced a fourteen year old to admit on air she had been raped and didn't stop the prank even then Yanbu.

Lots of people are saying she must have been depressed or had problems, that may be the case but I would imagine being humiliation publically and fear you were going to lose your job with two children before Christmas is enough to push someone over the edge.

I can't imagine not panicking if I thought the Queen was on the phone tbh.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Fri 07-Dec-12 18:32:46

All radio pranks should be stopped. They are ridiculous, not funny. Its much harder to know your being duped over the phone than it is face to face.

Chubfuddler Fri 07-Dec-12 18:34:42

Just following orders is no defence. That's been proven in the courts time and time again.

If my boss told me to do something like this I'd refuse. prank calls like this make you an arsehole, basically. And arseholes desperate to be on the radio/telly are falling over themselves to do things like this. These aren't highly skilled journalists put in an invidious situation by a pushy producer. David Dimbleby these two aren't.

NetworkGuy Fri 07-Dec-12 18:35:53

SDT - I suspect a second apology from the DJs and the station, this time with the Managing Director involved too.

CominThroughTheWry Fri 07-Dec-12 18:36:37

So sad. Night shifts can sometimes play havoc with a person's health, physically and mentally. I'm sure it's a stressful enough job at times without having to deal with extra problems. Unnecessary problems at that.

Poor, poor woman.

manicinsomniac Fri 07-Dec-12 18:36:49

Possibly they should lose their jobs for the act itself but not for its possible end result, that wasn't their fault.

I can't believe this was a suicide though. A tragic coincidence surely. Unless there's far more to the story that we don't know re the woman's mental health or hounding from employers or colleagues .

I can't buy that a goin healthy professional with little children would kill herself over an innocent mistake that had no damaging consequences for anyone and that she wasn't even in trouble over.

More to the story or not suicide in my opinion. Regardless, I feel for all concerned including the DJs

amothersplaceisinthewrong Fri 07-Dec-12 18:36:54

Why weren't all calls for Kate screened properly. The hospital is at fault here....

amothersplaceisinthewrong Fri 07-Dec-12 18:38:32

I agree with Manic, there is more to this than we are being told in some way. Maybe this mistake was the straw that broke the camels back.

FivesGoldNorks Fri 07-Dec-12 18:40:18

But so what if she had problems relating to mental health? Why is it OK to assume everyone you come into contact with is totally healthy and push them to the brink?

CleverClod Fri 07-Dec-12 18:41:40

There's an awful lot of shit being said on this thread - shame on you all.

Rest in peace Jacintha, you carried a heavy burden

To your children, be proud of your mother she cared too much.

katykuns Fri 07-Dec-12 18:43:25

ChippingInAWinterWonderland - Although bosses are also at fault for allowing this... I would expect to lose my job for committing such a stupid act. I would take personal responsibility frankly... but then again I wouldn't do something that I knew would cause trouble for someone just trying to do their job...

NetworkGuy Fri 07-Dec-12 18:45:07

Looks like the radio station website ( ) is down.

Had been hoping to see some form of apology on the front page, but maybe it has been 'hacked' as a warning (to other stations), or something...

ChippingInAWinterWonderland Fri 07-Dec-12 18:46:36

Katy - I suspect you might feel differently if you worked in a radio station.

victoriaplum01 Fri 07-Dec-12 18:47:14

Fired or not, if the poor woman committed suicide because of this "joke," the DJs should carry the weight of her death on their consciences for the rest of their lives.

toobreathless Fri 07-Dec-12 18:48:47

Personally I would like to see them go, a resignation might be the most dignified option.

That poor nurse and her family.

NetworkGuy Fri 07-Dec-12 18:49:47

Just coming up to 6am in Australia, so I'm going to listen to see if they have a news broadcast... radio coming through OK on my Android phone.

katykuns Fri 07-Dec-12 18:49:54

Perhaps Chipping... maybe that's the problem, they should surely be MORE careful of what they do, when they are in a position they can do things publicly.

My whole close family are nurses. I can imagine my mum saying she was transferring but putting on hold to check. I can imagine my younger cousin panicking and giving her info.

Cozy9 Fri 07-Dec-12 18:51:50

I think someone from the royals entourage should be handling all phone calls regarding Kate to the hospital.

Pantofino Fri 07-Dec-12 18:51:57

There was a thread on MN saying the nurse should be sacked?????? I did not see this - but I bloody hope poor Jacintha was not a MNetter. sad

AnnieMated Fri 07-Dec-12 18:53:13

It's as bad as every journalist (rightly) persecuted as part of the Leveson enquiry for phone hacking. This was an act on the part of these DJ's to get information they weren't allowed to have, pure and simple, and now look at the ramifications. Get rid of them and MASSIVELY fine the radio station resppnsible for hiring them in the first place. Their fine should go to the unit Kate stayed in at the hospital or to the family of this poor lady. Shocking.

NowBringUsSomeFriggyPudding Fri 07-Dec-12 18:56:31

I can't believe so many mums are not more sympathetic, this is such a tragedy, if the djs had not gone so far, this would not have been such a big deal. They could have stopped any time, the radio station could have cut short the broadcast (it was recorded). To blame the royals is madness. The nurses made a mistake, lessons were learned and no harm done. But media hype resulted in this. So sad. They should hand at least enough respect to apologise, resign and disappear.

A phrase floated to my mind when I heard this on the radio - "It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye." sad

I agree with whoever said this was not a prank against the royal family but against the hospital and its staff. And for that reason alone, it should never have happened. Could that radio station really not foresee that airing this would have consequences? Not death, but certainly they must have anticipated that the staff they pranked would be disciplined and hounded by the media? And the DJs do bear responsibility IMO (as do the producer, lawyers etc). As has already been pointed out "just following orders" won't wash. And especially after that incident with the 14 year old, they cannot claim that there's never been a problem with any of their previous pranks.

"I can't believe this was a suicide though. A tragic coincidence surely. Unless there's far more to the story that we don't know re the woman's mental health or hounding from employers or colleagues."
Sadly, I can believe it. Put yourself into her shoes. She has been humiliated in front of a vast number of people. Her professionalism called into question. Her career possibly damaged irrevocably. The media undoubtedly hounding and doorstepping her. Even with the hospital claiming to support her, there would have been individuals expressing, at the very least, exasperation (if not outright contempt) for 'allowing herself to be fooled so easily'. Which might lerad her to believe sacking or being struck off was inevitable. And the media interest being ongoing. That is a terrible, terrible burden for someone who takes pride in their nursing. So terrible. sad

Chubfuddler Fri 07-Dec-12 18:58:33

Sky news reporting the djs pulled off air until further notice.

MrsMuddyPuddles Fri 07-Dec-12 18:59:24

Sadly, nothing is going to happen, though I'd love to see radio station pranks ended. Nothing happened after the woman in the US "held her wee for a wii" died from drinking too much water, why should anything happen from this?

Mrsjay Fri 07-Dec-12 19:00:44

Sky news reporting the djs pulled off air until further notice.

good perhaps this will end all those terrible prank shows, I really dont think they are to blame as such but they did it without thinking except the laughs and radio listeners

They have made a statement

Southern Cross Austereo (SCA) and 2Day FM are deeply saddened by the tragic news of the death of nurse Jacintha Saldanha from King Edward VII’s Hospital and we extend our deepest sympathies to her family and all that have been affected by this situation around the world.

Chief Executive Officer Rhys Holleran has spoken with the presenters, they are both deeply shocked and at this time we have agreed that they not comment about the circumstances. SCA and the hosts have decided that they will not return to their radio show until further notice out of respect for what can only be described as a tragedy

RedToothbrush Fri 07-Dec-12 19:16:35

I can't bear prank calls on the radio or similar stunts on tv.

Someone is always a target/victim. So by this very nature it is bullying pure and simple.

In this case, Kate was the target, but it doesn't take a genius to work out if they were successful, then there was a strong possibility that someone would face disciplinary action or it would cause distress to the Royals.

In either case the radio station in question should have the book thrown at them. Both the DJs and the producers concerned.

Unfortunately the results of their actions ended up with even worse consequences than what was forseeable. They have to take full responsibility though because it is fair and reasonable to say that they could forsee several negative outcomes (mentioned above) and those seem to have directly led to this tragic outcome and without their actions this would not have happened.

Thats the bottom line. I hope this has well and truly wiped the smile off everyone who laughed at this. The fact a royal was involved shouldn't make you feel differently. It could have been a hollywood actress. It could have been a suspected murderer. It makes not a jot of difference. Trying to illicit medical details is not acceptable under any circumstances what so ever whether it be for humour or otherwise.

carabos Fri 07-Dec-12 19:24:02

The nurse did not "commit suicide". Suicide is no longer a crime in this country. It appears that she has taken her own life.

AllSnowballsAndNoKnickers Fri 07-Dec-12 19:28:45

The fact a royal was involved shouldn't make you feel differently

Bloody exactly.

And fucking about with semantics is really not the point either carabos

MrsBW Fri 07-Dec-12 19:31:26

The presenters should have sacked long before news of the suspected suicide broke.

What they did is a gross invasion of privacy... Duchess or no Duchess (and I am a staunch Royalist).

Just tragic that events have unfolded the way they have.

And yes, I do feel sorry for the Duchess of Cambridge. Through no fault of her own this will now serve only to increase the press hounding of her throughout her pregnancy which, let's not forget, is not yet at the 12 week mark... For which she'll be slated by people saying 'why is she so special, just because she married into the Royal Family who are all parasites'. Or something. Frankly I get bored of that type of ranting and switch off in much the same way that I do when my Grandmother starts talking bollocks about something or another.

Still... I digress. Someone has lost their life it would appear directly, or indirectly as a result of a 'joke'. That is truly sad. RIP.

Itchywoolyjumper Fri 07-Dec-12 19:34:11

Manic, I really don't think there is any more to this story than.
Even if the hospital and the royal family were being very nice about it I can't see that the NMC were going to ignore it. A nurse fucked up in a very high profile way, the NMC are pretty touchy about that kind of thing and I can imagine she might have been fairly worried about what was going to happen next.
Add to that all the nurse bashing that's been going on this week and all the publicity and opinions floating about about this incident. Its quite a lot for someone to try and deal with completely out of the blue.
Poor girl and her poor family sad

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Fri 07-Dec-12 19:35:54

I agree AllSnow, its a null point.

I think saying that the DJ's should 'carry her death' is a bit much. If it was a case of the straw that broke the camels back, then it could be argued that if it was not this, then it would have been something else. I do not agree with what they did, but responsibility falls on a lot of shoulders here, not just the DJ's.

meddie Fri 07-Dec-12 19:37:53

It was a childish and reprehensible stunt. But people calling for blood of the presenters are just as bad as those previously calling for the nurse to be sacked.
I am sure that no one expected a person to take their own life over this and I am sure the presenters are equally as shocked and horrified that this has occurred. In the end they were doing their job and unfortunately these prank calls seem to be a staple of radio shows.
I have listened to the tape and they are astounded that they were actually put through in the first place, I dont think in their wildest dreams they actually expected to be put through.
They are now suffering immense pressure and worldwide vitriol which in itself must be horrendous. lets not add to the list of tragedies and put the pitch forks down folks.

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Fri 07-Dec-12 19:38:30

Actually, it's really fucking obvious what's going on here. This prank call and the people involved in it are being made scapegoats for the Murdoch empire who are still trying to use the culture of spite, sentimentality and self-righteousness that they created themselves. Get all the hard-of-thinking shitting their pants about 'nasty, childish' phone-pranking in the hope that they will just forget about vicious, destructive, calculatedly malicious phone hacking, the aim of which was frequently to destroy lives, 'punish' celebrities who had 'got above themselves' and exploit murder victims and their families to manipulate the public for gain.

I should add that I hope the DJs feel shit as do all those who called for her to lose her job sad

Itchywoolyjumper Fri 07-Dec-12 19:41:55

Well said Meddie, I really don't want to be reading that the DJs have done away with themselves as well. It was a pretty stupid thing to do but they've got their own consciences to live with now and I'd like to hope that would be enough. I don't feel sorry for them but I don't think they need to be crucified by the media or us on here.

MoetEtPantsOn Fri 07-Dec-12 19:41:55

These DJs are just Christmas holiday stand-ins for the actual show hosts, Kyle Sandilands and "Jackie O" (no idea of actual surname). It was Kyle who was involved in the 14 year old girl incident. So these two could resign but it would be fairly pointless because they are just temps anyway. Probably lends weight to the theory that the producer should bear responsibility. I wonder if the usual producer is on a break too. The two hosts take around 6-8 weeks every Christmas.

I can't help thinking that no one would ever have known her name if she hasn't killed herself. And by that I mean, no one would have held anything against or even remembered the nurse who connected the call, surely? So sad.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Fri 07-Dec-12 19:42:40

Well said meddie

MrsBW Fri 07-Dec-12 19:43:48

meddie They didn't hang up after they were put through though, did they??

RedToothbrush Fri 07-Dec-12 19:44:07

Publishing details about someone's health or medical condition without permission is, unless there are exceptional circumstances that are in the public interest is STRICTLY off limits in the uk. (Not sure whether its actually law or not).

And outside the Uk whilst it may not be illegal, you certainly leave yourself wide open to getting your arse sued in the vast majority of western countries INCLUDING Australia.

So to say that the DJs, who had been working in the media for sometime, are unaware of this and don't understand basic media ethics (one of the first things I was ever taught whilst studying media) is a bit of stretch.

Which I'm afraid, means they DO have to take full responsibility. They over stepped basic media ethics and they realistically would have been able to predict certain consequences without too many brain cells. They wanted publicity and they wanted money from it, and the gamble hasn't paid off. They would have fully understood the risk of trying to get medical information.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Fri 07-Dec-12 19:44:47

Whats the 14 yo girl incident?

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Fri 07-Dec-12 19:46:19

Red are you saying they have to take full responsibility for someone committing suicide?

DoingItOntheRoofTopWithSanta Fri 07-Dec-12 19:50:07

They should be sacked for trying to privileged information about a person in hospital to put on air. Not for the death of the nurse. People do not kill themselves over one incident. It's tragic what happened (however it happened we still don't know) but if she killed herself there was other stuff going on.

DoingItOntheRoofTopWithSanta Fri 07-Dec-12 19:50:56

2 radio hosts got a 14 year old to admit bein raped when she was 12. It wasnt the djs from this story but same company

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Fri 07-Dec-12 19:52:20

WTF??? DoingIt that is crazy! How on earth did that fly?

MrsBW Fri 07-Dec-12 19:53:33

DoingIt Totally agree.

RedToothbrush Fri 07-Dec-12 19:56:38

They have to take full responsibility for the actions they took because it was very forseeable that it would led to certain parties being disciplined if they fell for the prank and that this might have far reaching consequences for their future. Not so much a suicide, but they definitely could have predicted that this could end someone's career.

From there its not a short hop to reasonable assume this might have devastating consequences for someone's mental health.

So in answer to your question, yes this was an extreme result and not the most likely outcome nor one I think is predictable, but I DO think that it is a fair and reasonable argument to suggest that they could easily have forseen that this would ruin someone's life in many aspects including their mental health.

British law generally rests on what is a 'reasonable thing' to expect/assume when making judgements.

Therefore I think I'm in the camp of them having to take responsibility I'm afraid.

thebody Fri 07-Dec-12 19:59:18

Well,, I feel absolutely awful that I posted on a thread that the nurse should have been given a written warning as that's what I would have done as a ward sister.

Great the Internet isn't it. We can all pontificate and judge without anyone knowing who we are or taking any responsibility!!

JustFabulous Fri 07-Dec-12 20:00:22

The DJs apology meant nothing as even before the death they were still promoting the call. If they were truly sorry they woud have quietly dropped it from their site.

I think they should resign as the decent thing to do but they won't.

I think it is totally distasteful to say the nurse clearly had something wrong with her. People have taken their own lives for "less" than media interest in something they have done.

MrsBW Fri 07-Dec-12 20:01:09

Don't forget... This was pre-recorded, reviewed by lawyers and deemed fit for air by the audio station by those lawyers and producers.

This was not an unfortunate 'accident' or a joke that went too far. It was pre-meditated (the invasion of privacy, not the suspected suicide)

MrsBW Fri 07-Dec-12 20:01:47

Radio station, not audio station.

germyrabbit Fri 07-Dec-12 20:02:54

the whole story is a lesson on what not to do, it's very sad but the hospital should have cast iron policies about how to deal with phone calls and the press shouldn't have (imo) reported the princesses admission in the first place

i imagine all involved will never get over this. sorry state of affairs all round really.

It was a mum and daughter and the teen was connected to lie detector.

The 14 was asked had she had sex.

The teen replied you already know this story.

She was further pressed and said ok I was raped when I was 12.

The DJ instead of thinking fuck and dropping it and saying thats terrible just carried on with lie detector and said along the lines of yes but was that your only experience.


PuffPants Fri 07-Dec-12 20:06:24

The buck shouldn't stop with the presenters. They are part of a team. Producers, directors, editors and, apparently, lawyers.

The DJs are just the the talking monkeys, not the decision-makers.

Plenty with blood on their hands here.

carabos Fri 07-Dec-12 20:08:39

For those of you, especially you Allsnowballs who think that terminology is just fucking about with semantics can I suggest you take a look at The Samaritans guidelines on reporting suicides (UK guidelines 2008) which state quite clearly that the use of the term "committed suicide" is to be avoided.

PuffPants Fri 07-Dec-12 20:09:20

If I didn't already feel sorry for Kate, I do now. She's bound to feel in some way responsible. Of course she's not, but she strikes me as the sort of girl who will take it to heart...

Dreadful all round.

SantaIAmSoFuckingRock Fri 07-Dec-12 20:09:28

"There's an awful lot of shit being said on this thread - shame on you all."

no shame here thanks.

DoingItOntheRoofTopWithSanta Fri 07-Dec-12 20:09:29


its awful, they let a mother hook her daughter up to a lie detector test and ask about her personal life.

2Day FM has a history of shock jock prank calls at the expense of the disabled and disadvantaged. The Australian Communications and Media Authority imposed a licence condition for five years ordering 2Day FM to provide increased protection for children after a 14-year-old was strapped to a lie detector test in 2009 and pressured to discuss her sex life on air.

Despite the girl's protests that she was "scared" and believed the questions were not "fair" the "Kyle & Jackie-O" radio show host encouraged both the girl and her mother to discuss whether she was sexually active, to which the girl finally responded: "I've already told you the story of this and don't look at me and smile because it's not funny. Oh, okay. I got raped when I was 12 years old."

To which the host replied: "Right. And is that, is that the only experience you've had?"

The hosts were disgusting but the mother sounds like an evil bitch and all

DoingItOntheRoofTopWithSanta Fri 07-Dec-12 20:11:21

The other DJ (female I think) after said, "right, think we will let you off" and then apologized for what happened to her.

DoingItOntheRoofTopWithSanta Fri 07-Dec-12 20:13:06

In another incident, the radio station said it has raised $AUS 150,000 for a family who believed they were being awarded the money to help care for their disabled child. When they tried to claim the donations, they were instead given the names of those who'd pledged money and were not able to collect more than $50,000, according legal submissions filed with the Australian regulator.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Fri 07-Dec-12 20:33:08

Wow DoingIt that story is sickening! Are they still on the air???

thebody Fri 07-Dec-12 20:41:06

Lets just stop now shall we? Lets not judge individuals.. Or are we so fucking perfect????!!!?!??!!!

DixieD Fri 07-Dec-12 20:42:21

Allsnowballs The use of the term 'committed suicide' is offensive. It implies that the person has committed a crime when this is not the case, and adds to the distress of many families who have suffered the loss of a loved one through suicide. It is a hard enough thing to deal with without people criminalising the victims. Being careful about terminology is one step on the road to destigmatising the whole subject. It is about a lot more than semantics.

It's the mother who comes out badly from that story, not the DJ's.

As I've said on t'other thread about this, do people not see the irony in a mass "outrage" towards these two dj's in light of what happened with Jacintha?

Fabuloo Fri 07-Dec-12 20:53:40

It's making me really angry that so many people are calling for these presenters heads on spikes, wtaf?!

They made a prank call pretending to be the queen, hang them for treason!!!

It's far more complex than blaming the radio D.J's, yes they played a silly prank but would you really see their lives destroyed?

" yes they played a silly prank but would you really see their lives destroyed?"
Probably not. Such a pity that they did not afford the same consideration to those they called. As I have already said, consequences for the nurses would have been inevitable. "Jokes to many feel like bullying to the recipient." puts it rather well I think. I cannot find it in me to feel sympathy for the DJs or anyone at that radio station.

"The use of the term 'committed suicide' is offensive. It implies that the person has committed a crime"
Is crime really the only word associated with commit? I thought I committed myself to my husband when i married him.
For me, the word implies simply that the action it is describing is heartfelt'. And I rather feel that suicide must be very heartfelt. sad

MrsBW Fri 07-Dec-12 22:08:51

WhereYou Couldn't agree more... I've been here scratching my head for a while trying to figure out how (or rather, to whom), the expression 'committing suicide' is offensive.

I would never have associated the phrase with a crime if someone had said it to me in conversation to me; Despite knowing at one stage it was one.

carabos Fri 07-Dec-12 22:11:03

whereyouleftit the reason why the phrase "committed suicide" has been used is because suicide was a crime. It is no longer a crime and it is important that it is destigmatised.

See The Samaritans media advice (UK guidelines 2008) for an in depth, properly considered and endorsed recommendation about terminology for public discussion of suicide.

MrsDeVere Fri 07-Dec-12 22:19:25

If I am a royalist, David Cameron is a member of the Socialist Workers Party.

But to call a hospital to get the gen on a woman who has a serious complication of pregnancy whilst giggling like a school child?


To humiliate and distress a nurse who was put on the spot and obviously thought she was speaking the Queen


To brag about their jolly jape on their website whilst probably waiting for the work to come rolling their way


Now someone is dead. Yes the majority of people who commit suicide have existing issues but some do not. They are pushed into a sudden acute episode by unbearable strain.

To some people being fed to the media lions and to feel like you have let down a patient and that you may lose your career would be enough to push them over the edge.

Stupid, selfish, self seeking, publicity hungry, thoughtless fuckers.

SantaIAmSoFuckingRock Fri 07-Dec-12 22:24:05

MrsBW possibly offensive to the family or friends of the deceased? as carabos says. the phrase comes from the fact that suicide used to be a crime and someone who did it had commited the act (as in commiting burglary) also maybe the fact that suicide suggests murder, like the words homicide and genocide.

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Fri 07-Dec-12 22:33:30

SUfficiently narked by universal stupidity to blog.

MrsBW Fri 07-Dec-12 22:37:59

SantaI as the friend of two people who have taken their own life (is that ok?) I can say I wasn't offended when it was described to me as committing suicide... And neither were their families. As I say, the thought didn't occur to me.

However, I accept everyone is not the same as me so I accept your point.

SantaIAmSoFuckingRock Fri 07-Dec-12 22:44:29

nor I MrsBW ( i have lost friends who have taken their own lives). i wasn't offended when it was referred to as suicide. but i can understand how some (maybe older people who remember when it was a crime?) could be offended.

Maybe it did once directly associate suicide with crime; but language changes, and words and phrases come to mean very different things with time. When the phrase 'Social Security' was coined, it must have given a warm and fuzzy feeling; not so much after a couple of decades when the sense of security was conspicuous by its absence. Similarly, I think the term 'to commit suicide' has come to mean what it is - a heartfelt action undertaken in despair. I doubt if anyone under 60 could ever associate with illegality. And few over 60. sad

DixieD Fri 07-Dec-12 22:52:53

Whereyou and MrsBW It may have never occurred to you that the term committed suicide indicates a crime but I can assure you that this is where the phrase comes from and that it is an offensive and distressing expression to many families of people who have died through suicide.
My mother works with adults with learning disabilities. Many of their families take no offence at the term 'handicapped' in fact a lot of them use it themselves. This does not mean that the term is right to use, and my mother never does. Terminology and how we discuss things are important. They are fundamental to society's attitude to things.

SantaIAmSoFuckingRock Fri 07-Dec-12 22:54:54

well i think if the advice being given by a charity who deals with suicide is that it causes offence, then i'd be inclined to think they know what they're talking about and i'll avoid using it.

MrsBW Fri 07-Dec-12 23:24:59

I think sometimes the world would be a simpler place if people stopped getting offended on behalf of others quite so quickly and just concentrated on what offended them personally.

But then, I've drunk a lot of wine tonight and reserve the right to decide in the morning that IABVU and give myself a slap.

DoingItOnTheRoofTopWithSanta Fri 07-Dec-12 23:32:17

junowiththegladrags asking a 14 year old girl to discuss her sexual experience on live radio and then ignoring her telling you that she was raped and asking "Right and is that the only experience you've had?" that doesn't seem bad to you? angry confused. The mom sounds appalling, but the djs should have been sacked after that. It's disgusting,

DixieD Fri 07-Dec-12 23:34:17

If that was aimed at me I have no idea why you have concluded that I am getting offended on behalf of others. You have no idea of how I am personally effected by the subject.

MrsBW Fri 07-Dec-12 23:39:18

Nope, not aimed at anyone in particular. Just a general observation after being involved in many threads on many forums over a long period of time.

Doing, the mother put her in that position. The way I read the transcript of the interview the dj got flustered made that one very ill judged remark and the interview was stopped.
The mother knew the girl had been raped and still thought an interview about sexual experiences was a good ideahmm

I'm not a fan of their work, just think the reaction they're getting following this very sad death is pretty ironic.

GothAnneGeddes Sat 08-Dec-12 02:05:53

What Mrs DV said.

I'm a staunch republican, but in now way do I think ringing someone up in hospital is in anyway ok and yes, they were gloating about, they thought it was hilarious.

That poor nurse was at the end of a night shift, probably knackered and probably hasn't been able to get any sleep since, it's very easy to feel at the end of you tether when you're so sleep deprived.

Awful, awful, awful.

It's not about forelock tugging, it's about a media that behaves in a decent manner. Pestering the sick is not decent. At all.

Loveweekends10 Sat 08-Dec-12 02:33:17

A few days ago when the story came out lots of people on this site were demanding the nurse get the sack.

Who will it be next? The Queen?

It's all very sad. It made me angry that the hospital were saying 'we supported her' I bet they did! I bet she got an absolute bollocking.

differentnameforthis Sat 08-Dec-12 03:30:31

How can the DJs not be to blame? Without that call, she might still be alive. It may not have been the only factor, but it certainly was a factor of her death.

I am shocked at how anyone can defend them, and I would say the same whether it concerned the royal family or not.

differentnameforthis Sat 08-Dec-12 04:06:50

I should think so too. For those who don't know

Coles - Tesco
Telstra - BT
Optus - any major mobile carrier

flow4 Sat 08-Dec-12 04:14:57

The DJs have been taken off the air indefinitely.
The radio station is subject to investigation by the Australian media regulator.

INeedThatForkOff Sat 08-Dec-12 07:26:52

I don't see any hint of an apology from the DJs within the statement from the station. It seems like a load of arse-covering and denial of any culpability. Sad.

NetworkGuy Sat 08-Dec-12 07:33:45

Well put MrsBW ("the world would be a simpler place if people stopped getting offended on behalf of others quite so quickly and just concentrated on what offended them personally").

Can see where the 'offended' view might come in, but really, truly, had never thought the description "committed suicide" was so different from "taken own life" that one could offend and other is "approved".

I'll bear it in mind, but if someone had taken their own life (and it happened in the case of the son of some friends earlier this year) then discussions either completely avoid the subject or (if family wanted to discuss situation) would be done without (in my case) any implication of what was once a crime.

Suicide is an awful action, and I'm not going to imply some moral judgement, so if someone reads into 'committed suicide' as such a judgement, it's in their own head, not mine. Feel sure that in dictionary definitions the phrase would never suggest lawbreaking.

Just put the phrase in a search engine and here are some extracts of the results I saw:

Found On: Google, Yahoo! Search "A suicide method is any means by which a person purposely commits suicide, .... It is impossible for someone to commit suicide by simply holding their breath, ..."

Found Exclusively On: Yahoo! Search "So you're thinking about committing suicide. That is, I figure you probably are if ..."

Seems there are a number of sites which use the phrase (and suggests the Samaritans have some work to do, if they consider it insensitive or offensive).

manicinsomniac Sat 08-Dec-12 09:13:46

I never knew 'commiting suicide' was offensive either, it's the most common way of describing it. I guess I can see why it is if it relates to when it was a crime but I'm not sure anybody thinks of it like it really do they? Also not sure why on earth we would want to destigmatise suicide?! No, it's not a crime but it's awful, tragic and the worse it is seen the better as far as I'm concerned. Nobody should have to go through the aftermath of a person killing themselves. A move towards seeing it as an okay thing to do would be disastrous in my opinion.

jamdonut Sat 08-Dec-12 09:23:09

Peple who think this was "just a joke" need to think about the two 10 year olds who caused such a panic when they rang emergency services and pretended mum was unconcious and the one speaking was a 3 year old,locked in ,somewhere in Leeds. It caused a panic on here,and in the media and misuse of emergency services.
Ok, no-one died....but no-one knew if there was a mother and child at risk somewhere.
This was a prank call too. Not so funny now,eh?...
Hopefully those two ten year olds have been fully re-habilitated now and will never do it again.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Sat 08-Dec-12 09:29:08

You cannot relate every joke ever played to one scenario and say 'look how that turned out'. Its non sensical.

I would be very interested to know how many of the people who are in uproar about the death of the nurse called for her sacking after the incident. I bet there are quite a few of the two faced arse holes. Everyone loves to be offended. So fucking hypocritical.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Sat 08-Dec-12 09:31:55

Strangely enough the thread calling for her sacking on MN has been pulled. Funny that! People can't own up to the fact that they were so fucking quick to judge her, and now so has died are doing a total 180.

Makes me sick.

DixieD Sat 08-Dec-12 10:30:31

Just because a phrase is used commonly doesn't mean it is right. I understand the point you are trying to make manic. When we talk about the stigma of suicide we mean the effect that has on families. How it is hard to openly talk about the manner of their loved ones death because of the stigma attached to it. Of course this ties in to the wider stigma attached to mental illness and how little it is openly discussed. This is perfectly illustrated by the poster above mentioning how the subject is completely avoided.

MrsDeVere Sat 08-Dec-12 10:38:38

You cannot 'blame' someone for someone else taking their life.
You can point to factors that contributed to that person taking their life.

It can be addiction, depression, relationship break up and it can also be fear, shame, humiliation.

These DJs quite probably caused this woman to be frightened, ashamed and they certainly humiliated her.

I saw some of the 'sack her' stuff on the internet and I didnt understand it. I am a bit of a maniac for confidentiality but ffs th woman worked in a private hospital and she thought the Queen was talking to her. It would take a very assertive person to challenge the Queen. The accents were crap but the nurse was not English was she? She didn't give out any information, she passed the call through.

The whole thing is fucking awful. I am still angry at the initial call. How dare they invade a woman's privacy in that way. I don't care who she is. Laughing as they go. It makes me shudder the way her body has been taken over because she is carrying an heir to the throne.

NetworkGuy Sat 08-Dec-12 11:00:23

If you are suggesting people posting on this thread have done a U-turn, probably best to be 'sick' but say no more. Someone has already expressed remorse about comments made before hearing about the death of this nurse, and we are all entitled to change our minds / position in the light of new information.

I'm open minded - it would have been better for all calls from the family (Royalty or not - feel sure Kate's Mum might have rung) to have gone through a mobile held by someone in the police, on protection duty, so situation could have been avoided, but given the time of day when the spoof call was made, and no special arrangements / precautions having been taken, it was just human error, but one the media pushed to prominence.

RedToothbrush Sat 08-Dec-12 11:18:12

The trouble with trying to set up a protocol for private calls in a hospital are this:

a) sheer number of people who need to be informed
b) the fact that training takes time and realistically there would be few patients needing this even in a private hospital
c) Kate was an unscheduled admittance which makes it harder to prepare staff
d) you would also need to inform anyone with a legitimate reason to contact Kate
e) trying to illicit medical details breaks the self enforced code of conduct by the British media

In my mind it does come down to the media. No one should have to go down to these lengths IN A HOSPITAL. No matter what the public thirst for the Royals is.

The whole situation makes me sick. We have years of this to come, and every dog and his bone will crawl out of the woodwork to push their own agendas on this (think breastfeeding verses bottle feeding. think vb v cs). And it'll have an effect on public perceptions/judgements regardless of any the element that everyone is different or the validity of decision making process behind it. Its so wrong.

At the end of the day, all of these things have got fuck all to do with Royalty. And everything to do with everyone trying to cash in. Its an absence of basic decency and humanity tbh.

hackmum Sat 08-Dec-12 11:26:16

We live in a media culture where bullying, harassment and cruelty is rife. Look at the way people are humiliated on "reality" tv shows. Look at some of the stuff the tabloid press have done to celebrities such as Charlotte Church or Sienna Miller or indeed to ordinary people such as the Dowlers. The press and television companies have been hugely lucky, in my view, that none of their victims has killed themselves.

By comparison, the stunt pulled by the Australian DJs, silly though it was, was relatively mild. They can't possibly have imagined they would have been put through to the ward. I imagine they thought the person who answered at reception would tell them to go away in no uncertain terms and that would have been that.

I wish people could see that by demonising the DJs publicly, calling for them to be sacked and so on, they are putting them in exactly the same position as that poor nurse.

RedToothbrush Sat 08-Dec-12 11:39:01

I disagree completely about the parallel with the nurse being in the same position. The DJs carried out a dishonest and deliberately misleading act for their own self interest and gain and had no regard for the implications of their premeditated actions - even if this hadn't resulted in the death of a woman it is very obvious this would result in potentially devastating and life changing consequences for those caught up in it. They had numerous opportunities to say enough was enough but they didn't. They broke basic media ethics and broadcast rules (if not the law) and continued to promote their prank after the event.

I actually think trying to draw a parallel abdicates the DJs of responsibility and says its ok for them to be ignorant of rules and standards they should be very aware of as broadcasters to avoid prosecution. Its not.

I think thats disrespectful to a woman who was put on the spot in a position which she had no control over and beyond the remit of her job and was the butt of someone's 'humour'.

HoolioHallio Sat 08-Dec-12 11:46:20

'Strangely enough the thread calling for her sacking on MN has been pulled. Funny that! People can't own up to the fact that they were so fucking quick to judge her, and now so has died are doing a total 180.

Makes me sick.'

This. Exactly this. And not one of the screeching harpies demanding that she be sacked have the guts to own what they said. Which makes them as pathetic and spineless as the owners of the radio station and their pathetic refusal to bear ANY resonsibility for what has happened. There is every chance that Jacintha Saldana had access to what was written about her on this forum. And the ONLY people who will argue that it wasn't vile and witch hunting and humiliationg are the people who contributed to it.

picketywick Sat 08-Dec-12 11:49:49

It is such an awful story at many levels. An Aussie lady was on 5-live last night . She said the programme did loads of pranks. That was there main thing. They will be off the air for some time now

LadyBeagleBaublesandBells Sat 08-Dec-12 11:55:12

Exactly what Mrs DV said.
Supposing it was bad news and Kate had lost the baby, did they even think of that?

Witchety Sat 08-Dec-12 11:57:01

Yes, not unreasonable to thin Jacintha may have been a mumsnetter, it member if another forum where she saw threads such as that.

x2boys Sat 08-Dec-12 12:00:25

As i said on the previous thread asking for the nurse to be sacked my collegue [ who has been nursing for over 30 yrs]has just been demoted and got a first and final written warning for something far less serious than a major breach of confidentiality and as i said on the previous thread i felt verysorry for the nurse to be in the position she was in the hoaspital made a public statement last night that they had been supporting jacintha i very much doubt and all of this has lead to a loss of life however people think
it needs to be described from a nurse to a nurse rest in peace jacintha.

Latara Sat 08-Dec-12 12:06:38

HoolioHallio is right.

Personally, as a nurse i cried when i heard of the nurse's death - i've been suicidal (partly caused by my job) recently & i feel so upset for her family.

It's difficult for many people to understand how scared this lady must have felt over the possibility of losing her job & the implications (for her family & for her self-esteem, & financially) that would have had. I do get it because i was in a similar situation.

Latara Sat 08-Dec-12 12:08:05

RIP Jacinta, but she shouldn't be dead & it makes me feel so angry for her.

x2boys Sat 08-Dec-12 12:13:49

completely agree latara i was off work for 8 months last year as a direct result of extreme stress caused by bullying by senior managers [ NHS] so i cant begin to imagine how jacintha was feeling but she should nt be dead

flippinada Sat 08-Dec-12 12:22:35

I posted on the other thread in chat.

Solid, you are wrong that the nurse who died must have had other mental health issues. No need for me to go into any detail as others have explained why. Ours also wrong to assume that it's about forelock tugging.

I'm about as far away from being a royalist as it's possible to imagine, my sadness is entirely for the woman who died and her family. I do have some sympathy for Kate as well as she's still a human being.

On a personal level I find prank calls repellent and unfunny. They are cruel and tantamount to bullying. I don't have a massive amount of sympathy for the "shock jocks" who pulled this nasty stunt as they make a healthy living from their fatuous jokes - a lot more than the nurse who killed herself, I would think - but agree that the management hold ultimate responsibility - I expect they thoroughly regret their behaviour now.

LadyBeagleBaublesandBells Sat 08-Dec-12 12:25:23

My dsis has been off work for 6 months now due to stress and depression.
She works in the NHS with adults with mild to very severe learning difficulties.
It's not just her job that has caused this, but it was certainly a factor.
And yes, if something like this had happened to her, it would have tipped her over the edge.
I also think if it wasn't for the Leverson Enquiry those nurses would have been doorstepped to get their side of the story, just in time for the Sunday tabloids.
Actually, I would be surprised if they weren't at least plagued by phonecalls, the tabloids are 'suitably' outraged, yes now she's dead they are.

hackmum Sat 08-Dec-12 12:34:17

"I think thats disrespectful to a woman who was put on the spot in a position which she had no control over and beyond the remit of her job and was the butt of someone's 'humour'."

Of course it's not disrespectful. I'm just making the simple point that if you disapprove of bullying, hounding and mob justice, then the way to demonstrate that is to show a bit of restraint by not bullying and hounding en masse the Australian DJs. It's a bit like smacking a child to show them that hitting is wrong.

mrsbacchus Sat 08-Dec-12 12:41:22

MrsDeVere Couldn't express how i feel about this any better.

Pyrrah Sat 08-Dec-12 12:50:54

I was recently in a situation where I could have been forced to choose whether or not to make a media statement.

A friend of mine who is an expert in that area asked me if I was aware of the psychological and emotional stress I would suffer if I did - even though I myself would not be the story and I would be seen in a very good light. She was really, really adamant that I must consider whether I wanted to go through that. I didn't sleep for 3 nights worrying about it.

This poor nurse (who was only filling in for reception at that moment) will have been subjected to massive stress, will have had this sprung upon her, made to look a fool by the rest of the world and had people calling for her head. On top of that, she was away from her family and exhausted.

I am angry that the DJs didn't think through the implications for the person who answered the phone. They played the tapes to lawyers before airing them, so it wasn't something that just happened live on air apparently and still decided to go ahead.

I'm sorry for Kate, who must be feeling that if she hadn't been sick she wouldn't have been sent to hospital and this wouldn't have happened. Also awful that a wonderful happy thing like her first baby now has a woman's death attached to it. I would have been devastated in her position on so many levels.

Above all terrible for the husband and children of the nurse. Have lost an ex-fiance to suicide, I have a good idea how they will be feeling.

The DJs don't deserve some of the vitriol - but I think careers in another field might be a good plan.

DoingItOnTheRoofTopWithSanta Sat 08-Dec-12 12:52:43

'Strangely enough the thread calling for her sacking on MN has been pulled. Funny that! People can't own up to the fact that they were so fucking quick to judge her, and now so has died are doing a total 180.

This. Exactly this. And not one of the screeching harpies demanding that she be sacked have the guts to own what they said. Which makes them as pathetic and spineless as the owners of the radio station and their pathetic refusal to bear ANY resonsibility for what has happened. There is every chance that Jacintha Saldana had access to what was written about her on this forum. And the ONLY people who will argue that it wasn't vile and witch hunting and humiliationg are the people who contributed to it.

First of all that thread was about the nurse who gave the information not the receptionist/nurse

Secondly even if it wasn't, what do you want people to do?
Come on to a thread about a dead woman and say she should be posthumously sacked? That might be a bit disrespectful I'd have thought as there really isn't much point now.

Some of us spoke on the previous thread about how sad it was she died but that expecting someone to be sacked for what should be a sackable offense does not make us murderers confused. Do I think the DJ's should also be sacked for trying to get information about a potentially vulnerable woman? Yes, of course I do. We have no idea why she was really in hospital, HG could have been a cover for something even more serious. It was inappropriate.

DoingItOnTheRoofTopWithSanta Sat 08-Dec-12 12:53:28

Oh and the people who asked that previous thread to be pulled were the ones offended by the thread in the first place, said I thought it should stand with an altered title.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sat 08-Dec-12 13:18:40

The people at fault are the moron members of the public who clamour for information, unable to live their own meaningless lives without knowing things that are none of their business. Unfortunately, they won't have the wit or the conscience to realise it.

HoolioHallio Sat 08-Dec-12 13:47:14

Doingit - you and the other fucking harpies screeching on that thread for her to be sacked (and yes - there were PLENTY of calls for the 'receptionist' who answered the phone to be sacked') shouldn't have even been commenting. What fucking right do you have to sit as judge and jury on someone elses career and life? Words on a screen ? Yeah - buy into that bullshit all you like but YOU and every other person who posted negative, hurtful, speculative and gossip mongering posts bear a level of responsibility for what happened. Whether YOU like it or not. And if acknowledging that means that ONE person will stop to think before laying into another human being from behind the safety of a computer screen then thank god for that.

I wish that MNHQ would reinstate the thread to be honest - if only to force you all to take responsibility for the comments that you made.

GothAnneGeddes Sat 08-Dec-12 14:47:40

I missed the thread asking for the nurses to be sacked. How disgusting (but unsurprising) that such a thread existed. It could have well been something that put her over the edge. It should allowed to stand, so people can't pretend now.

As soon as I heard about the hoax, I said the nurses involved would be sobbing in the staffroom over this.

I also have a strong feeling hospital management were not supportive, unlike our medical colleagues, nurses are very quick to throw staff under the bus when something goes wrong.

I did not post on the thread calling for her to be sacked, my mum who is a nurse said this morning that 95% of people she worked with would have given information in panic. My mum has been involved in a similar media situation with the press.

I full agree that the hospital would not have given their backing no matter what they say.

The woman was said to be confused and inconsolable over the incident.

The nursing council hang you out to bloody dry, she would have been terrified that she would not only lose her job but be struck off.

Even if I had no mental health issues, if I was worried about losing my job, not being able to work as a nurse ever again, right before Christmas with children, being targeting by the media, vilified (sp?) by public AND humiliated continually in such a case that the most well known people in the country were involved I am pretty sure I would not be in a good mental place!!!

A Prank is a situation were the pranked see's the funny side at the end and gives permission for it to be shown.

This was nothing short of a nasty bully who knew damn well people's jobs were at risk, but its alright because they are sat in their fancy media towers with my fat cat wage, who cares if some lowly nurse loses her job. angry

SantaIAmSoFuckingRock Sat 08-Dec-12 15:09:21

"Also not sure why on earth we would want to destigmatise suicide?! No, it's not a crime but it's awful, tragic and the worse it is seen the better as far as I'm concerned. Nobody should have to go through the aftermath of a person killing themselves. A move towards seeing it as an okay thing to do would be disastrous in my opinion. "

you are misunderstanding. it isn't a move to destigmatise suicide to make it an okay thing to do. it is to destigmatise the feelings and thoughts about suicide so that people are more able/comfortable to talk about it, thoughts they may have had about suicide so that they may get the appropriate help.

MrsDeVere Sat 08-Dec-12 17:20:29

Do you really feel that it is the criminal connotations of 'committing suicide' that causes stigma?
(this is a genuine question, I don't want you to think I am typing this in a snarky tone)

Because I would think that only the older population would even connect suicide with anything illegal or shameful in the moral/religious way.

I am 45 and can only vaguely recall how it was treated when I was a young child. Talk of being buried outside consecrated ground etc sad

Do people feel the shame of suicide/taking their life because they feel that they are being cowards, letting others down, people will think they are insane or because they fear that someone will talk them out of it?

Does historical criminality really feature? Is that your experience?

DoingItOnTheRoofTopWithSanta Sat 08-Dec-12 17:33:40

Doingit - you and the other fucking harpies screeching on that thread for her to be sacked (and yes - there were PLENTY of calls for the 'receptionist' who answered the phone to be sacked') shouldn't have even been commenting. What fucking right do you have to sit as judge and jury on someone elses career and life? Words on a screen ? Yeah - buy into that bullshit all you like but YOU and every other person who posted negative, hurtful, speculative and gossip mongering posts bear a level of responsibility for what happened. Whether YOU like it or not. And if acknowledging that means that ONE person will stop to think before laying into another human being from behind the safety of a computer screen then thank god for that.I wish that MNHQ would reinstate the thread to be honest - if only to force you all to take responsibility for the comments that you made.

I fucking LOVE irony.
I say (quite rightly) that a person giving away personal info should be sacked.

You say that a person on the internet who says someone should get sacked should be culpable for someone elses suicide. Why do you have the right to ask for blood for what I did? Something that the woman involved probably never saw. And simply stated "she should get sacked" You stupid stupid stupid person.

Now say thanks to your ridiculous comments which I have definitely seen, I go and kill myself. Should you also be held responsible as you have pushed me to take responsibility?

DixieD Sat 08-Dec-12 18:10:10

mrsDV there are of course a myriad of reasons why there is stigma attached to suicide. All of the ones you mentioned feature. The implication of criminality does not help. Of course changing the commonly used terminology is only a small step but it is important that the dialogue around suicide is more sympathetic to the victim. Commit suicide as a phrase suggests a planned deliberate nearly cynical act like someone would commit a murder or burglary and is quite accusatory. When of course we know those people driven to suicide are often incapable of rational thought. They are lost in a terrible, lonely, desperate place where suicide seems the only way out.

HoolioHallio Sat 08-Dec-12 18:15:49

Please link to where I have asked for blood?

A simple apology would go a long way to show that beneath your screeching, judgemental lack of compassion that you do actually have a human heart.

But I doubt it.

You, and every other faceless stranger on the internet who criticised, humiliated and castigated those 2 members of staff online, without having a real CLUE about the circumstances, contributed, however indirectly to the death of another human being. Of course you don't like hearing it. I certainly wouldn't like hearing it if I had been calling for someones life to be ruined, and it then happened in the most horrific circumstances imaginable. But to many people, you and those who thought and acted like you did, bear some responsibility. Unpalatable as that may be to you.

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Sat 08-Dec-12 21:48:18

What I find a little distasteful is the assumption made that, even if Jacintha Saldahna killed herself (which has NOT been confirmed AFAIK) then it must have been over the prank call. Because this is behaving as though she, and her life, and her thoughts and her problems couldn't possibly have mattered, that the only thing about her that is of interest is her tenuous connection with a famous pregnant person. For all anyone knows, she could have been informed that morning that she was terminally ill/her husband was leaving her/she was about to face criminal charges for something or other completely unconnected to the prank call. But hey, only the famous matter, and the rest of us peasants can't possibly have narratives of our own.

alarkthatcouldpray Sat 08-Dec-12 22:30:44

Exactly Solidgold, any of these things could have happened to her or anyone else we encounter in our daily lives. Which is why we should be in general terms be considerate to our fellow man, not setting out to trip people up or mock them unless we know the person and their situation well enough to feel it will be met with humour rather than distres.

DoingItOnTheRoofTopWithSanta Sun 09-Dec-12 01:51:59

Hoolio You have effectively accused me of murder over an internet post saying, again, that someone deserved to be sacked. I own no one an apology the woman who killed herself almost undoubtedly did not kill herself for only this reason. That is not how suicide works. Your shrieking over how I have driven a woman to kill herself is much worse than me saying someone should be sacked. You are unbelievably ignorant and hypocritical.

Please answer me, if I, who has actually assuredly read your comment now go and kill myself would you apologize? Would it be your fault?

SantaIAmSoFuckingRock Sun 09-Dec-12 01:57:21

in response to mrsDV

i was raised and live in a very catholic area of ireland and there still is talk of sin around taking your own life. it is very much accpeted and the norm (as in, not questioned) that a suicide victim would not be buried in consecrated ground. IME there is still a stigma. but i completely accept that this is my own experience and otehrs may never have expereince dthis, which mught explain why the term would not cause any offence in their own socuial circles.

SantaIAmSoFuckingRock Sun 09-Dec-12 01:59:57

just to be clear. i am atheist and do not share the idea that to take your own life is any sort of sin.

FivesGoldNorks Sun 09-Dec-12 08:20:14

Hoolio please stop going on about screeching, you've made your point and it's getting old.

I was on the other thread, said I was on the fence and would happily see it re instated as I stand by my comments in the circumstances at the time.

Is it bad just to post on a thread calling for someone's job?

FivesGoldNorks Sun 09-Dec-12 08:22:37

Alark thank you. You've put into words what I've been trying to say. Everyone keeps saying the DJs could never have predicted this, she must have had other stuff going on. Well what makes that ok? Why is it fine to assume someone's mentally healthy and work on that basis?

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Sun 09-Dec-12 09:00:15

well, to behave as though everyone is so fragile that they'll kill themselves if you look at them the wrong way would be a very bad idea. It would mean that no one could ever be criticized, no matter how stupid or lazy or unhelpful they were being, and it would also lead to a culture of unhealthy deference where the powerful could reject or silence any questioning on the grounds that their feelings might be hurt.

FivesGoldNorks Sun 09-Dec-12 09:45:58

Agreed. But that is the extreme. To behave as if everyone you don't know is 100% mentally healthy is the other extreme

I think the point is that neither nurse committed a sackable offence and the frothing posters were hyping up a very minor incident because of its connections to royalty.

The whole bloody thing is a mess and further froth is just making things worse.

If anyone dies of suicide the correct response is sadness not to point fingers without having knowledge of their issues or reasons.

"I think the point is that neither nurse committed a sackable offence"

The nurses I know seem to think otherwise, not so much the nurse who put the call through but the nurse who gave information out.

Sorry that is not clear , I do not mean that in a way the nurses thought they SHOULD be sacked, more that they thought that the hospital would view it that way and it would be seen as a serious misconduct.

It was an error, and a refresher on confidentiality might of been appropriate, but it wasn't a sackable offence which was what that thread called for.

NetworkGuy Sun 09-Dec-12 16:38:47

"stigma attached to mental illness and how little it is openly discussed. This is perfectly illustrated by the poster above mentioning how the subject is completely avoided." - DixieD

Sorry, if I wasn't clear. Was meaning that discussing the death of their son would likely be avoided unless they brought it up. I'm not in a position to comment on the mental health of someone I knew only slightly, and even if I had known him well, am not qualified in that field. In his case, a combination of drugs and alcohol (which was meant to be avoided with his prescription) may have been the cause.

Also, the quotes regarding 'commit suicide' were chosen by me, and I decided not to include one which mentioned mental health, in part, because it is a touchy subject where even hinting at it could offend someone who is disturbed, or has had a history of problems.

RabidCarrot Mon 10-Dec-12 08:02:59

Heartbreaking for her children and family.
However no sane and reasonable person kills them self over something as trivial as this, it would seen she was not in trouble with the hospital, the Royal family made no complaint and really no damage was done, we all knew the Duchess of Cambridge was in hospital, we knew she was being given fluids and we knew she was chucking her guts up, it was all on the news and in every bloody paper so it is not as if anything new was said.
Total stupid over reaction

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