to not want my friend to bring her 6mo to our Christmas meal?(1000 Posts)
Be prepared I have my judgey pants on.
We have organised our meal for the weekend before Christmas. Friend is bringing her 6mo baby because the one and only time she has left him, he refused to take the bottle.
She has since then never bothered to try again. My baby took ages to take to the bottle too so I know how hard it is, but I persisted and eventually we got there.
The table is booked for 8 and we will be there is probably at least 10 so its going to be late. The restaurant is fully booked so it's going to be noisy. I just don't feel this is a great environment for a baby.
aibu to not want her to bring him along?
(she has a bf and they live with his family so there isn't a shortage of people willing to look after him)
It's none of your fucking business if it's not your ideal environment for a baby. If the restaurant allow it, the parents are happy and I assume she can't detach her breasts for the night, YABVU
I took my babies to restaurants at that age, or I wouldn't have been able to go. I wouldn't have stayed if they had cried though, but basically they slept in their car seat under the table and it was fine. Just once or twice for a special occasion, I didn't make a weekly habit of it.
I am glad your babies took to a bottle, but I couldn't be arsed with all the faffing with DD. Maybe your mate doesn't want to bother?
But her BF and family don't have milk filled breasts do they?
Some babies don't take to a bottle.
What would you like her to do? not come or spend the next couple of weeks working on getting the baby taking milk from a bottle?
I can see why you want to just see your friend without the distraction of a baby, but you are sounding a bit of a cow about it!
You can not want her to bring him but I doubt it's really going to impact on your enjoyment of your meal. What's so awful about taking a baby to a noisy restaurant?
I'm failing to see what the issue is here.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
If the baby sleeps in his car seat, having fallen asleep on the way, why will it bother you?
If the baby is overtired and whingy, then it will be better off at home in bed.
Your friend knows her baby best, and I doubt she would bring him if she thought she would have to spend the evening trying to settle him and not enjoy herself.
Having someone to babysit, and someone willing to look after a screaming baby who won't take a bottle are two very different things.
So yes, YABU.
Come back and tell us afterwards how the baby was. I am prepared to eat my words.
I would be a bit miffed as bringing a baby will change the whole dynamic of the evening but I wouldn't say anything. However she can't feed her baby any other way so I can see that she wants to bring him. It will only be for a couple of hours and he will probably sleep through the whole thing (for some reason babies often seem to sleep very well in noisy places!). Just enjoy your evening!
My ds1 would never, ever take a bottle despite everything I/we tried. YABVU, I'm afraid.
Oh dear, see where you're coming from-really I do but still, YABU.
Meh. I took my baby on nights out and she just slept. She was a boob monster so I wouldn't have been able to go out otherwise. It's not like she is going to be rolling drunk as she is bf'ing. It is a restaurant, not a night club!
YABU, would you rather your friend was on edge and worried about her baby the entire evening?
The meal isn't even at your house I can't see why you think you have any right to have an opinion.
My friends come over every couple of weeks with their baby, we sometimes play rockband which is very noisy, that is when the baby is most likely to go to sleep, she loves the load noises.
Gosh, all mine loved rammed restaurants when they were tiny bf things.
It's a useful window between not being able to go out because your boobs keep exploding & none of your clothes fit & you haven't slept in weeks (first few weeks), & not being able to go out because your pfb is liable to run around the restaurant screaming & smashing stuff (1 year - well who knows).
Wind yer neck in. If she has to leave early because her dc isn't happy, that's the risk she's running. Totally not your problem!
Very judgy but I would feel the same
She has since then never bothered to try again
Why should she bother? Just for a shitty Christmas meal, she should have forced her baby to take a bottle? Hmm.
I see where you're coming from as well, but it's her night out as well as yours. What are you worried about - that you can't get drunk and swear loudly because there's a baby in the room?
If it was a lunch or early tea then yabu but it seems like a christmas 'night out' where there will be drinking, noisiness and not exactly a relaxing place for a baby
possibly I am.fanatical but dd has always been in bed by 7pm
Why couldnt she feed before she leaves, come for the.meal (2hrs - 3 max) and go.home to.feed?
Let her go, her 6mo can have finger food to splodge around and will (hopefully) enjoy the attention and change of scene.
V jealous of all these babies who sleep through going out!!! My ds is 6 months and seems to pop up wide awake the minute we set foot inside an eating place!And then screams or moans non stop... lovely
Yabu. Do you want her to come or not because if she can't bring the baby she will probably decide it's not worth the stress and stay home.
Meglet there may be people.going on this night out who are looking forward to a chance to get a break from babies / toddlers / weaning etc so its hardly going to be the right atmosphere.
If it were me, who had a six month old simply couldnt leave i`d wish you all a great night and arrange a kiddy friendly daytime activity another day.
you made your baby have a bottle for your convenience.
your friend breastfeeds and won't leave her baby behind.
she sounds ok.
YANBU iF it is an adult only meal.... eg works meal
Life does not revolve round children.
If she cant manage to seperate 'mum' and 'person' then she's in for a really sterile couple of years.
YABYU id its a friendship meal - we all have to put up with other peopel and their little peccadillos - still stand by the whole 'life does not revolve round children' thing though.
Me too, GoldPlatedNineDoors.
I wouldn't take a baby to an adults night out.
YABvU why should she force her baby to take a bottle for her convenience?
Totes U, I think. The child won't take a bottle. What's she meant to do, starve it?
YABU. Do you think everyone who BF must get their baby on a bottle because you did? DD1 had ONE bottle dd2 has had none. My choice, my business, none of your concern. I managed to socialise just fine and sometimes even took a baby to a restaurant. My friends were loving and fun about it.
Do sit at the other end of the table so they don't have to suffer your catsbumfaces on the night.
I like children in restaurants in the evenings. If they're not my own then I don't have to do 100% of the work. Other peoples children are much easier to deal with.
YABU - its not because you don't think its a good atmosphere for a baby, its just that you don't want the baby there at all.
Used to take bf DD to restaurants at this age.
You could always just ask her not to come if you feel that strongly about it eh?
lovebunny did you seriously just say that?
Do not try and turn this into a debate about bottle vs breast.
You have no idea why my baby had the bottle, but you seem to have implied that I am a bad mother by doing so.
Anyone can say IABU BUT don't turn this into a bottle vs breast debate.
Is this the same friend you were calling childish last week?
OP I agree with hiphop do sit at the other end of the table or you may well get a half gummed carrot thrown into your cocktail.
Babies and nights out such as this one do not mix.
YABVU about the bottle thing. Why does she have to?
My baby would have happily slept through all the noise and drama of a resturant, more noise the better he settled. Where ever the boobies are, he is happy.
If the baby creates, Im sure she'll take him home. But I doubt that'll even happen.
You are being VERY unreasonable. It is up to her where she takes her baby. How can she leave him if he has no other way of being fed? She will be worried about him all night & he will most likely be very upset until her return.
I think this has nothing to do with it being a bad environment for him, but all about you not wanting a baby to "spoil" your night. Not only are you unreasonable, but you are selfish too.
I like the baby, if it was a lunch time thing I wouldn't care.
But this is an evening do and feel that late at night and in a noisy place isn't the best place for a baby.
But she's not asking you to take your baby there, is she?
It will change the dynamic of the evening. And a s someone said others going might be looking forward to a child-free evening.
This is what I don't get about bf-ing, you get all the "it's so easy, convenient, do it where and whenever" but if you want a break from it then it just seems really hard.
She decided to try him on the bottle for one night. He didn't like it so she never tried again.
I don't think I'd be keen on going for a meal out with a group of people and a baby. What is the matter with some people. I would never have dreamt of taking a 6 month old baby on a night out. Do you mean it's just you and your friend or a group of people. Either way I'd give it a miss.
Her baby she can decide. Mine were never bothered by noise and would sleep anywhere at 6 months so time of day wasn't important either.
It's not like she's asking you to babysit during the meal, leave her to it, if the baby gets to fussy or upset I'm sure she'll take him home. One of mine would never take a bottle all my expressed milk saved in the freezer went to waste. He liked it straight from the tap.
I wouldn't be that thrilled at a 6mo joining me for an adults evening meal. That would be the same if I was it's mother However I can see the woman in question feels unable to go otherwise.
I don't think everyone loves being with babies tbh There are some places and situations where they might think they won't have them (evening in a restaurant ?) You're entitled to feel the way you do. She is entitled to bring the baby.....
^lovebunny did you seriously just say that?
Do not try and turn this into a debate about bottle vs breast.
You have no idea why my baby had the bottle, but you seem to have implied that I am a bad mother by doing so.
Anyone can say IABU BUT don't turn this into a bottle vs breast debate.^
My baby took ages to take to the bottle too so I know how hard it is, but I persisted and eventually we got there
yes, i said it. i don't know what your problem is. you 'persisted', you were happy with the result. she persisted her way and she's happy to bring the baby out in the evening. i have no interest in a bottle v breast debate - i breastfed for four years and was a bfg counsellor for twelve. her way works for me.
Why does OP sound like a bad mother?
What a wanky thing to say.
Would you rather she didn't come? Because that's probably the only real alternative. Some babies don't take a bottle and some women don't want to bother with them (I didn't with dc2 and dc3 - I'm pretty sure I have friends who don't understand my decision, but it's not up to them how I feed my baby).
Yanbu, i would be miffed that i managed to arrange childcare to spend an adult evening out only to be greeting with a baby.
thats why we do 2 event in my circle of friends, one which involves mother and child and one only adult.
It's her call. YANBU to judge. I would.
But YABU to not want the baby at all.
You sound a bit TBH. The baby is 6 months, why bother with a bottle.
I will admit I pulled out of a hen do because I couldn't leave DD. would you have judged me?
Do you want to see your friend (+baby) or would you prefer she didn't come at all? Because those are the two options.
Forcing a baby who doesn't want to, to take a bottle because you want it to isn't one of the options on the table.
But some of these women may well be looking forward to having a child free night out. Her baby her decision yes - but it doesnt just affect her does it?
And no body seems to have responded as to why she cant feed before she goes.out, go for the meal and return after it for another feed?
I love my dd but I sure as hell would need the odd hour or two without her every now and again.
YANBU. A healthy 6mo baby should be able to go 3 hours between feeds so the bottle issue is irrelevant. Not sure you can actually do anything, though.
The baby years are over so quickly. Live and let live.
DD 2, quite simply, wouldn't take a bottle to save her life.
She ended up supplementing breast milk with yoghurt.
By 9 months she'd have juice from a cup and yoghurt for super off DH, but not at six months.
She might have been ok in a restaurant at that age, DD1 was, she went to the works curry.
Me too GoldPlatedNineDoors
I love my dd, but it's so lovely to have an hour or two away to just be me.
I feel it benefits her too.
Yabvu the baby is breastfed so cannot Beirut her mother, if that is how you feel op, if I were your friend I would not go
forbidden this is where real life and MN life is very skewed. There are situations where it is not ok to bring a child- this is one of them. However in the mn world saying so is the equivalent of supporting child neglect. It is an adult occasion and open to adults only-if she can't manage that then she shouldn't go. Similarly you wouldn't bring a husband on a girls night out or go to a funeral for a first date.
Not having small children anymore I do find the dribbles and dropped food, regurgitated food and filled nappies less of an attraction. It's a bit like slugs of snot - you cope with your own children and cease to see it as quite so vomit inducing ....when you are not surrounded by it anymore, you are less desensitised
Child free times are good -I'm not sure why anyone needs to accuse you of being a bad mother for wanting a child free evening.
Of course the baby might just stay asleep and quiet in a corner
in which case it could be at home
To be fair, if he's six months old, a feed right before friend leaves and then another feed when she gets back (say 2 hours later) would be fine. She doesn't actually have to bring him.
Having said that, it is her choice and assuming she is attentive (which it would appear she is) then if he makes a fuss, she'll soothe him and/or leave so it shouldn't really affect the evening that much.
You don't like this "friend" much, do you ?
Well, I suppose ynbu to want the baby not to come, that's just the way you feel about it. But if I were your "friend" i'd be mortified at your view on this and i'd rather not be there at all. Is've often seen babies out in restaurants in the evening and everyone seems v. Happy (post smoking ban of course).
It's not reasonable to expect a b/f ing mother to push a bottle onto her baby (some simply don't take to a bottle) just to have a child free night out.
Do you carry the casting vote in the arrangements for this meal?
Shh we aren't supposed to mention Beirut on here
There are 9 other people. It's not like you're going to be forced onto making conversation with the baby.
You're unnecessarily rounding on Lovebunny too. You were the one tutting because she only tried once. (Going by your "tone") It sounded like you expect all parents to switch to bottles.
Agree with goldplated and holla. She may want to bring him, but it's not the same as having to
The other point that has been made is that other mums may have made huge efforts to have a babysitter for a 'child free' evening.
I get asked out a lot and turn it down because despite the previous posts I am really enjoying my 10yr olds company and don't wish to do things without her. Nor is it appropriate that she should come as it's adult meetings. She comes to some things but my friends have much older DC and it would affect the night if my DD was sat with us
Errrrr predictive things on I pads
It is late for dinner with baby in tow - it I was her I would consider a sitter if able. Its kind of a shame you guys didn't consider making it earlier to accomodate her needs in view of the fact that you know she is dealing with the breastfeeding issue. That would have been the most friend-like thing to do. Now she is in a more difficult situation.
She is probably not thrilled that dinner is so late but is sacrificing so she can see you all. I would appreciate that and accept the sacrifice that there will be an infant present. More of an inconvience to her evening than yours IMO.
Besides, its not a ladies night out or anything its a Christmas get together - Christmas equates to family in my book. I wouldn't have assumed my child wasn't welcome...(I could be delusional here I admit).
Well i dont think feeding a baby milk from a bottle makes anyone a bad mother so have no idea wtf that chat was about.
I dont think yabu op. I wouodnt want an uninvited gues there either even if they were only 6 months old and i would rather the friend didnt come at all than spent the whole night on mother duties with socialising coming second. Whats the bloody point?
why can't you be a good friend and want a child-free evening.
Yanbu at all imo
I wouldn't want a baby there on a works night out.
Likewise I wouldn't dream of taking any of mine on a night out. When they were ebf I just declined the invites.
I don't get it. The baby's 6 months old, can he not go for a couple of hours without a feed? Genuine question.
I wonder if there's more going on here & there are other reasons why your friend doesn't want to leave her baby.
I wouldn't fancy a night out with a baby tbh. And 6 months old isn't like a few weeks old where they would just sleep.
What if he starts screaming, won't settle. Not great for other diners.
Bad idea to bring him.
The only reason why I would not want a friend to bring their baby along to an occasion like this, is because I would be thinking that they deserve a night out on their own, to let their hair down, without baby being there.
BUT if it's easier for her to bring baby, because she wants to carry on ebf then good for her I say. It's obviously not going to spoil her night, otherwise she wouldn't come? So it shouldn't spoil yours either.
I agree that this is Mumsnet vs The Real World.
In RL I would not want a small baby at an evening get together.
I think evening meals out are for adults.
We parents spend enough of our chuffing time talking about/dealing with/focussing on children.
BUT I wouldn't say anything as it's her choice really and I'm sure it will work out fine. Also she really does not have to bottle feed her baby for other people's convenience if she doesn't want to! (Disclaimer: I was a bottle feeder so I'm not getting on one!).
Op I think you are being unfairly slated here. I would feel the same. I have 4 children and have bf them all but would not have gone to an adult night out with them. If I couldn't leave them I wouldn't go.
Newsflash... you can EBF a six month old and leave them only for a couple of hours!
Wow OP, I can't believe so many people think YABU! I thought you we're going to say you we're all meeting for a lunch at someone's house, not a meal out in the evening. I'd be gutted if I went out for a Christmas piss-up and there we're kids there.
We took our out when they we're tiny, i.e. weeks old, at 6 months they want to be tucked up in bed not whinging in a crowded restaurant.
YANBU - I too can't see why she cant feed the baby before she leaves and on her return
It's fine to want adult only night out of corse, but don't expect this friend to come
I doubt that your friend really wants to go anyway.
Baby is still little and might wake up in between for a feed, babies are not robots
It's not onl about nutrition th baby might wa up and want the comfort of a bf
Sorry, just re-read and saw that baby is 6 months old. In that case, she should be able to come out for a couple of hours to a meal without baby?
YABVU and you seem to think it is ok to judge her decision about what to feed her baby too, so YABVU on that score too..
You want her to put your 10 pm dinner before her baby and the fact that she is the baby's sole source of nourishment. Why? It's very needy of you to seek reassurance from friends that you are still number one in their lives despite the fact that they have had a baby. Does it hurt you that someone would choose her baby over your party?
I bet she is capable of dealing with her baby herself if she decides to bring him, whether to take the baby home and call it a night, etc. If that prospect upsets you then you need to get over yourself.
Child free times are good in theory but they are not enjoyable if they are not freely chosen by the parent. Being dragooned into child free evenings is not a pleasant experience. 'You're all going to have a nice child free night out because that is what I want' sounds like Christmas Cheer all right...
Well, if OP was saying 'I don't want friend to bring the baby because I'm looking forward to a night out with mates & having a baby along will change the dynamic', then fair enough.
But she's couched it as ' I just don't feel this is a great environment for a baby' which is a tad disingenuous - babies quite often love noisy social gatherings &/or will slumber happily through them, & it's not really her concern whether her mate is happy with the 'environment' for her baby or not.
Just don't pretend it's concern for the baby if it's really concern for having your evening spoilt!
So if I were te friend i would not go as the baby would still be dependent on me
It might happen piglet it's true. Anything can happen...
However, at six months old, their feeding times are much further apart...3 hours between feeds is probably average. I've never know differently having had 4 and also having known many, many more EBF babies too.
This statement is anecdotal yes, but it's more likely to be this scenario than the one where he wakes up and wants milk 45 mins after his last feed.
When my babies were this age, I wouldn't have forced them to take a bottle just so I could go on a night out. If I could , I would bring them along (and leave early if necessary).
It wasn't that I 'couldn't be bothered', but I always put my childrens needs first. Their need to breastfeed would come before my need to have a meal out. It's not just about food for a breastfed baby, it's about comfort and security too.
YABVU. Your friend is just being a good Mum imo.
How far is the restaurant from her home? Is it close enough that the boyfriend or family members can bring the baby to her if it wakes and needs feedibg?
But what about other people who are out for the night?
They won't want someone else's baby crying in the background? I doubt the restaurant would be chuffed either.
It's a mad idea.
Yes, because every woman that leaves her 6 mo child has to then potentially force them to take a bottle.
Why do people want a medal for putting their babies needs first at the expense of everyone else? Stay home if you are going to be a bleeding martyr and let adults enjoy an adult night out. No one is applauding you for your first rate parenting, theyre just wondering why you bothered coming out in the first place.
You can be a good mum and go out without your baby
Change "Christmas meal" to "wedding" in the title and watch how the tide of MN screechers changes from YABU to YANBU.
Of course it's not appropriate to bring a 6-month-old to a late evening adult dinner party. Not much different to a wedding reception is it?
Definitely a case where Mumsnet skews to the nutter side compared to real life where people are less indignant over perceived slights and have more common sense.
The only thing to do with a 6-month-old baby is to stay at home for a nice cuddle-up Christmas day or 2 or 3 (get all the supplies in!).
Bed, sofa, telly, heating on, water/food, tit of course, or bottle....
Who would want to go somewhere anyway.. especially where you're not wanted.
There'll be plenty more years you can catch up with all that Christmas hysteria....
Urgh I can't stand a Mummy Martyr. I do think there are some mothers out there who need their baby to only settle with them. The baby has two parents and GPs in hand. Milk isnt too far away if she feeds before she leaves and as soon as she returns. Has she ever been without her dc? Has the dad ever had the chance to be in sole charge?
YANBU. Parents who insist on bringing their children everywhere, even to events that are clearly meant to be adult only, are a PITA.
The baby has two parents and GPs in hand.
Some people have all the luck
Regardless of the feeding issue I would not want to hang out with a baby on a night out , lunch time is very different. Agree with Barcy.
There s absolutely nothing wrong with wanting an adult night but be sympathetic and don't expect her to come. Enjoy it with your other friends an do something else with this friend
Really? I didn't need my baby to only settle with me. My baby needed me to settle them, because I was the one with the breasts for feeding them. So no, I couldn't go out and just leave them or suddenly try and force a bottle on them for a one off night out.
I guess it depends on where you're going, and how long you're going out for. There were a couple of nights out I went on when DS5 was a baby and still feeding regularly. Luckily they were a meal up the road, so I went for the meal and came home after, missing out on the pubbing and clubbing that followed. I left him at home because it was only 5 minutes drive away. I doubt I would have gone out with him (remembering the disasterous anniversary meal DH and I had with 4 month old DS1!)
If someone bought a baby in a car seat to a meal I wouldn't mind, I'd be quite happy to have a snuggle, wistfully remember how lovely newborns are, but happy to hand it back and be glad I can sleep through the night!
you can still go out and enjoy yourself with your friends and babies
ds came out with me all the time for lunches and meals when he was under 1 and still does some of the time thankfully my friends are nice and less judgy and are happy for ds to come along
Totally agree with janeatthebarre
It wouldn't be my choice to bring a baby to an evening meal, but really, it's not you who'll suffer if the baby is unsettled.
Presumably, if the baby isn't happy and is actually screaming, she'l have the sense to take it out.
YANBU. I wouldn't want a baby - mine or anyone elses - at an adults night out. I have lots of friends with babies and small children and I've never known anyone do this in RL.
A baby of that age can go without milk for a couple of hours - just enough time to get to the meal, eat, drink, laugh and get back again in time to whip out your-full-to-bursting boob for the baby at their 11pm feed! .
Going out for lunch with your baby is nothing like going on a Xmas do fgs.
That's what you think Freudian
Op didn't say she thought the mum should be ff, merely bottle feeding.
YANBU to feel like that as there's nothing wrong with you wanting a child free night out.
But that's not going to happen so YWBU if you said anything.
Suck it up and smile...it might work out ok anyway.
Honestly, I would be really pissed off if someone rocked up to a night out with a baby in tow.
Thankfully my friends and colleagues feel the same.
OP I have re-read your post and whilst the scenario of not wanting a baby at an adults evening christmas meal is not BU, you expecting her to have the baby on a bottle for this sole purpose is.
So actually, your expectations of this situation aren't unreasonable, but your expectations as to how your friend achieves this is.
Why should she bottle her child... why?
Me too snob big time.
Sign in or sign off is our motto with nights out.
Different if it is a lunch in someone's house, but nights out? Leave them at home or don't come out.
I took my 7 month old to the pub the other evening. He loved it, for about 2 hours, then got grumpy by which time we were ready to leave anyway.
She shouldn't bottle feed her child.
She should not come to the meal. Easy peasy.
I agree with you Op. OK, so I know you could have worded your reasoning differently, but I do agree to a certain extent even then. A restaurant full of people having Christmas meals, drinking and having a good time isn't ideal for a baby. Then why not consider the other people at the meal, who have come out for an adult night out? A baby does change the dynamic, particularly if it doesn't settle. And to be honest, I wouldn't really want to have a baby being passed around for cuddles, fed, winded and possibly wingeing when I went out for an evening of good food, a bit of drink, and some adult interaction. Times are hard and meals out are pricey, I must admit this would put me off going, and I'd possibly be tempted to make an excuse and not go.
If a breastfed baby is used to you being there 24/7, then it is very difficult to go out and leave them. Alot of BF babies wake for comfort feeds during the evening.
If you feed on demand, then you can't just go out, it's very difficult.
I think this Mum is just trying to look after her baby, and enjoy herself a little bit too. Her friends should support her.
So everyone else has to suck it up because one woman can't leave her baby for a few hours? Hmm. It's an adult meal out. She should deal with it, or not go. However, I agree with the comments about the bottle feeding. She shouldn't have to do that just to accommodate you.
Is this really what life is like when you have children? Sounds exhausting.
Yabvu if she chooses to bf and not express that is her choice and she should feel pushed into giving her baby a bottle. Why shouldnt a baby be there she will most likely feed and sleep.
I say YANBU to not want a baby there. It does change the feel of the event.
Even if baby is quiet, they are wriggly, and will no doubt get passed around so everyone can COO over them and have a hold. That is not what an adults, evening meal should be about.
Freud 'Is this really what life is like when you have children?'
No! This is MN AIBU! IN RL everyone is much more sensible and sorts this kind of thing out with no bother!
Lime Thank goodness. It's enough to put you right off the whole idea.
i would never take my children on an adult night out.
There's a time and place for cooing over other peoples babies, an adult night out is not one of them.
Oh dear. I've just told some friends that I want to come to our annual Christmas meal (far from a piss-up though) but may end bringing my six month old. When I've left him at bedtime (3 times recently, I have tried) he has been a sodden red-face wee mess crying until I came home.
A bottle of milk wouldn't replace me in his eyes. Odd as I could leave him at 3 months, and maybe at 9 months he'll be fine, but not now. That's just the way he is. I assume the OP's friend also knows how her baby would be if she leaves.
Think I might cancel though if friends might be pissed off at me and not saying
* UterusUterusGhaLaLaLaLaLi* 9 other people going?? what? Where did I mention the number of people going? I think you've plucked a random number out of the air.
MollyMurphy the table is booked for 8 because it is a Friday night and people work during the day, a few don't usually get home until 7 and then they have to change and drive to the venue.
Hey we agree for once usual
By the way I have never forced the bottle issue on her. That is up to her.
She told me that he was tried with the bottle once and then gave up. I feel if she wanted him to be on the bottle then she shouldn't give up. It's not like I've snatched the baby from her and force fed him with a bottle.
I just feel regardless of bottles, that this isn't the correct place for a baby to be.
Tbf, my child was never passed around or cood over. She was always asleep.But also, my friends have a fair few loss between them and didn't mind. They would rather have me and the baby than have me not come because they ate lovely and knew I also needed a meal out sometimes.
So glad I don't know any weirdos who insist on dragging their babies on a night out, if she can't leave the kid she should stay at home, other peoples kids aren't appreciated in adult environments, childless people hate it as do parents who've gotten a babysitter and looked forward to adult time.
Well I'm currently missing my group night out because 7mo bf DD2 refuses the bottle and has sleep issues. I'm at home, talking to you lot instead
So from this
pita perspective, YANBU to not want a baby at an adults dinner if it was definitely geared that way, as in "a night out" rather than "a mates relaxed meal" perhaps DHs judged the tone of the evening wrong? I wouldn't (and clearly haven't) want a baby in a Christmas busy restaurant it doesn't feel the right place.
YABU with your sneery attitude to her bottle attempt and babysitting. I've tried to get a bottle in DD2 with limited success and she point blank refuses for anyone else, perhaps I should have persisted like you did? We're you wearing your wonder woman big girl pants at the time?
To those saying leave for a few hours, I cant with DD2 as evenings usually mean cluster feeding and inabity to settle without breast, perhaps she also has sleep issues she isnt able
is too knackered to fix yet?
OP I have re-read your post and whilst the scenario of not wanting a baby at an adults evening christmas meal is not BU, you expecting her to have the baby on a bottle for this sole purpose is.
I don't believe I have said that DamnBamboo . All I know is she tried him with a bottle once for her own reasons. I merely think that she obviously wanted him on the bottle but because he was fussy that one time she never did it again. The end.
I love my friend and want her to come, but imo it's not a great place to bring a baby.
Alo these people saying baby should come and would sleep through it - or they would sleep.at home. Why do thy have to be there if they are sleeping the whole way through?
Baby has milk before she leaves and if he wales gets snuggles and cuddles from.its dad and only if he wont setle a discrete text asking the mum to come.home.would be simple.
*She not DH and were not we're.
Smart phone my arse
Softlysoftly don't take it out on me that you missed your evening out.
I did too, many times.
I persisted and had patience and eventually my baby took the bottle. I mentioned she tried once and never did again. So the baby is with her 24/7.
I feel it is inappropriate for her to bring him on an adult night out. It's late, noisy and people will be drinking.
YANBU to not want the baby to be at an adults' night out. In fact in RL I would say by far the majority of people would agree with you. Much as I adore babies I would certainly be pissed off if a baby was there.
Unfortunately if the baby can't go two-three hours between feeds then perhaps your friend will just have to wait till he's older to leave him for an adult evening out.
We can't always get what we want in life.
Goldplated how do you know there is a dad or other caregiver who can settle the lo? DD2 will sleep a dream in a carseat amid noise yet is a fucking nightmare in her cot and wont go down at all for anyone else, not even DH as he works nights so isn't available to get used to it.
I wouldn't take her out at night but dislike the judgement on all the ways she could leave her child, you have no idea of her DCs needs or situation. It's presumptuous.
And what about other people in the restaurant. Aren't they due any consideration. There is no guarantee a baby will sleep through a meal. Why aren't diners in the evening entitled to a peaceful night out without having a screaming baby ruining their evening. Some of these people may have paid babysitters, made arrangements to have their own children cared for only to have their night ruined. It is just the height of selfishness and bad manners and inconsideration for others to insist on taking a baby everywhere you go. it's a nonsense. Stay at home if you can't bear to be separated from your child. This really makes me furious.
Because op lives with her oh and his parents. And at six.months old id be mighty pissed off if dh wasnt able to settle dd for a little while till I got home from.somewhere.
The evening starts at 8pm? That's the clue, right...
This is supposed to be an adult event. YADNBU!
With a baby being there everyone will feel they need to coo over it and ask mum about it. The whole dynamic of the evening will change and I can understand you not wanting that to happen on a night out for adults.
If BF baby can't settle with bottle then BF mummy should stay at home with baby!
It's ridiculous to take baby to an evening bash like that.
So are you bothered about the baby having a rubbish evening, or you having a rubbish evening?
Forbidden, how am I taking it out on you it's my choice not to leave my child unsettled, I could have, I actually agreed its not the right place for a baby.
But you have only just focused in on the inappropriateness of venue, your op was incredibly sneery about the bottle and your personal decision/efforts regarding it. She's "never bothered", you "persisted" it does appear to be a judgement on her parenting skills.
it's late, noisey and people will be drinking oh no and baby is likely to sleep through it all or enjoy the change of scenery
fine not wanting a baby around but really there is no harm to the baby just your friends attention will be not just be on you and your other friends
If my baby opens his eyes and sees me, he'd go back to sleep. If he opens his eyes and doesn't see me, he'll cry. 9 times out of 10 anyway. So, he would be more likely to sleep in the restaurant than at home.
However I'm contemplating a relaxed meal out with half a dozen good friends who know how hard motherhood can be and are happy to have my company, even with baby (possibly some prefer baby to me!) If it were my work night out, with more people who I wasn't so close to, I wouldn't consider bringing him. But then, my work didn't bother inviting me to the night out, as when on maternity leave, out of sight is out of mind!
Vivienne - what a lovely post
Why shouldn't people go out as a family?
VivienneMary what a strange thing to get "furious" about
Yanbu if she can't leave the baby for a few hours she should stay at home
Softly most people can leave their 6mo for a couple of hours with another carer. I feel for you if you can't (as you need a break sometimes) but in your case I think you're doing the right thing by staying home and letting your mates have some adult time. In a few months you can make up for it.
Maybe you can put this on ice for that day ?
You know what? I had a baby who was very boob-dependent and wouldn't take a bottle or settle for anyone else. And I was in no way a mummy martyr as I had nice friends who were perfectly happy to have adult conversations in restaurants or at parties while a baby snoozed happily while cluster-feeding at night. There was no cooing or passing around.
If you don't want a baby at your meal, that's up to you, and wouldn't be my choice but isn't unreasonable in itself. But you really don't sound like a good friend at the moment.
Lime I'm ok, there are reasons noone else can help, DD1 wasnt like this and pur situation was different. when she hits a year and is old enough to start fixing stuff (hopefully) I'm going to be a sambuca soaked mess, until then I'm taking path of least resistance
I actually think its not right to have babies out on adult nights but the op should be "is she being u to bring baby out" not "is she being unreasonable to bring baby out as she's clearly too lazy to follow through on bottle training"
with the op on this one, I'd be a annoyed if someone brought their kid along to an adults only meal
TheELf I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment, that the OP doesn't sound like a very good friend at the moment.
* TheElfOnThePanopticon* and you sound like a mummy martyr
i would leave them at home, but social services get a bit twitchy if you do...
and some people have all the luck to have one that will be left and grandparents and competant oh on hand.
Ah Softly, then it is [sambuca] that I need to be giving you for your cupboard then .
I know what you mean about the OP's bottle comment, but maybe it wasn't meant to come across as critical as it sounded?
I have 3DC, two of them took expressed milk in a bottle with no problem, the other
stubborn one was very determined not to. He did sleep from 7pm until 1am from very early on though - so I did get to go on nights out without him.
I am one of those childless people mentioned upthread. And yes I would absolutely hate this. This is an ADULT evening - a Christmas do. I'd be both amazed and boggled if any of my previous colleagues had brought a 6 month old baby to a do like this. And coo-ing and baby passing would be my idea of Hell. Having a baby present does change the dynamic of the evening, no matter if you say otherwise. Other people there may not be parents or may be very glad to have found a sitter and are looking forward to a childfree evening. We don't eat out very often and for a Christmas party this would be an occasion that had been saved up for and probably looked forward to for many months. And at 9 or 10 at night, if I was nearby at another table, I'd also be pretty cheesed off if I was in the restaurant and heard a baby crying. And sadly there are many parents who don't take them outside when they start kicking off.
I do agree that if it was really important for your friend to come, why not make a date for a more baby friendly lunch somewhere relaxed and family friendly?
Is she not a good friend or just a friend with different priorities? Im sure the op would be happy to spend some time with a friend and her 6mo but an adults.night out is not the right time.
She wants a night out. That is going to be the main aim of almost every diner at the restaurant. that doesnt nake her a bad friend just someone who.wants an adults night out.
No way would I want a night out with other adults with someone else's baby.
The whole dynamic of the evening would change, and I would feel uncomfortable if I wanted to get a bit merry and loud.
If my DDs hadn't been taking bottles by 6 mths then I couldn't have gone back to work. I hadn't realised this made me a terrible mother.
I understand where you are coming from OP but i think you should just go with it and it will be fine, your friend might be distracted and on edge if the baby is at home and she's worrying about feeding
I'm afraid no-one's baby in a restaurant would stop me being merry and loud on a Friday night christmas night out.
I wouldn't take a baby on a night out like this, but I wouldn't much care if someone else did. It wouldn't annoy me. I would carry on as normal...not my responsibility, not my problem. No worries.
God there's a lot of rubbish on here which essentially boils down to people being prissy about op's friend bringing her 6mo baby with her as baby is bf'd.
Are you friends? Do you not want to see her? Do you not think she must be dying for a night out?
I wouldn't have any big issue with this, the most person it affect's is the mum who has to tend to baby. I'm sure there will be some chat about the baby, so what?
Op it is up to your friend how she feeds her baby. Yabu to expect her to force a bottle on baby if neither she or baby want to.
I can quite understand you might prefer she came without baby for a proper boozy night but I would have thought a friend would welcome her friend and her changed position as you would want to see her regardless. Baby won't be 6m forever. It's not much to ask that you be nice about it.
if having a ikkle baybee around on a night out would cramp your style, you have a bit of a problem
you see, when I am childfree and carousing, I love to see other people saddled with their kids
I think "lovely baby, but ha! sucker!" and off I go for another dance
Are you worried about a noisy restaurant full of drunks being the wrong atmosphere for the baby, or are you bothered that your meal and conversation will be interrupted by a howling infant?
I see both sides here. I have no kids but would never tell a mother that she COULDN'T bring her baby. I have always tried to accommodate my mum friends into plans. But then again, bringing baby might be more of a distraction for HER than anyone else, as she'd be a bit 'out of the loop' if she had to tend to baby and miss parts of the conversation and fun. Let her bring baby, and if this happens, then she'll hopefully learn from it and reconsider next time.
If baby sleeps through or is content, I see no problem. I have seen groups of women in restaurants where one has been breastfeeding at the table while still chatting away to friends about non-baby related topics and having a laugh. From a different angle I wouldn't have even noticed there was a baby there.
People shut the fuck up about about breast or bottle feeding.
She doesn't bottle feed. Tried it once. Not for her. Gave up.
Therefore only she can feed him. He should not be be in a restaurant at 10 o'clock onwards in my opinion.
It has fuck all to be with how she feeds him.
OK ellee ?!?!
It's a night out, there will be drinking and probably rowdiness (If not from your group then from others out on office Christmas parties etc). I wouldn't want drunk people around my baby, wouldn't have even considered taking mine into a restaurant of an evening and like you op, I wouldn't particularly fancy a night out with a friend's baby in tow. Even if the baby does sleep through the event, it does change the dynamic and I'd be unable to fully relax. If you can't be separated from your child then don't arrange adult nights out until such a time as you can be. It's not for long and a lunchtime or something would be fine surely?
What pictish said. Not my baby, not my responsibility and i would be more understanding and sympathetic to a friend who has a baby and probably needs a night out even if that means she has to bring the baby with her.
At this age three of mine could not be left, one was easy as pie and could be left, thr last was more unpredictable, which was actually the hardest as i was never sure whether to risk leaving her or not!
Excuse me OP? Telling posters to shut the fuck up? I now think your friend shouldn't bring her baby, you are clearly an aggressive sort and no doubt heading for a riot of a night out.
If I was her I would stay at home. Does she feel really pressured into coming or something? It seems odd that she would want to take a baby out so late.
TBH op I wouldn't want my baby around you. You don't seem to think anyone is allowed to make different choices.
What will go wrong if a baby is in a restaurant at 10 o'clock at night OP?
What is that you are actually worried about happening here?
The worst thing to me would be if the baby cried for a long time. Other than that, I cannot see the harm in it at all.
is this the bit where the Op turns on the nest of vipers ?
Posterofapombear I don't allow people to make different choices?
And how have you reached that conclusion?
I said she tried bf once. Didn't want to do it again. So baby relies on solely her to feed. I don't think its appropriate to bring a baby to an adult meal. That is about the gist of what I'm saying.
So again, how have you come to that conclusion?
OMG, I'd completely forgotten that the bread rolls won't be the only baps out if the baby wants a feed!!!!
And I'm guessing that this type of mum is not going to want to take baby off to the toilet for that...
I rest my case. YADNBU and mum and baby should D be left at home!
So you dont think.its suitable..
.but its not your baby and its not your restaraunt so.its not up to you!
And you made it about the bottle by moaning that your friend didnt perservere like you did, so people will comment on that, it seems judgey and being judgey towards someone who you are meant go be a friends with makes you seem.a not very nice friend.
I don't think its appropriate to bring a baby to an adult meal. That is about the gist of what I'm saying.
I get the gist thanks. What I am asking is why not? What. Will. Happen?
With pnd, for example, a meal at a.restaurant with friends can be soul lifting. If there is no one else to look after the child, what is the mother to do?
I appreciate this isn't the case with the Op, but this thread has made me sad that I would have been so judged. My friends are my life line and I appreciate them so much more after reading this thread.
"Because op lives with her oh and his parents. And at six.months old id be mighty pissed off if dh wasnt able to settle dd for a little while till I got home from.somewhere. "
Then you are lucky. I live with my DH - when he's here. Unfortunately when DD was under a year old he was away more than he was at home (Army). So at six months (and more) there was no way he could settle DD in the evenings because he was away so much, and even when he was at home he would be working most nights until after she was in bed. When she's tired or poorly she wants me because I am the one constant.
I am her primary caregiver - and by that I mean that I was more often than not her only caregiver. Living with someone doesn't automatically mean they are able to settle a baby, and there are often valid reasons why only the primary is able to do it. My DH would have loved to have been able to settle DD - but he wasn't there enough. Rather than saying you'd be mightily pissed off if your DH couldn't settle your 6 month old be glad that your DH had the opportunity to be around enough that your child could be settled by him.
As we were overseas there were no GP automatically onhand. Most of the time it was just me, myself and I. I did go out, a couple of times - but I settled DD to bed first, and as she was a good sleeper that was ok. I wouldn't have taken her on an adults only night out at 6 months though. I'd either put her to bed first or stay at home.
Blimey. I've had this situation loads of times with my friends. I never even thought much about it; the people who wanted to bring their baby to evening events for whatever reason always did and those who didn't, didn't.
My friends have always been pretty easygoing though. I guess each of us have found different aspects of parenting easier or harder - I had a total bottle refuser; one friend had a bottle-fed baby who had terrible separation anxiety; another had a chilled out baby you could leave with anyone....so anything goes when we meet up really.
Personally I would probably have tried slipping out for two hours rather than take a baby to a loud meal. But coming to think about it, at 6mo that rarely worked as I did have a baby who couldn't wait two hours for a feed. So in the end, I probably would have said I couldn't come and my friends would have cajoled me to come out and told me to bring the baby along if I couldn't leave him.
So I think it doesn't really matter whether you are being reasonable or not, it's just how much you want to see your friend. Currently, she comes with baby attached, so it's down to whether you can feel that is worth it to see her.
it wouldn't be appropraite for me to bring a baybee on account of my prediliction for copious quantities of wine...but everyon eelse can do what they want
more fool them...but hey unless my friend wanted me to mind her baby while she went on the pull, it ain't my problem
I cannot understand how the baby being present will affect you personally. If he/she cries/finds it hard to settle your friend will have to deal with it. You can just leave her to it.
You possibly will not have your friend's undivided attention as her priority will be her baby. Is this the main issue?
It always astonishes me when people take their babies on adults nights out and regard it as appropriate. Be it in a restaurant, wherever. I think there should be a time in an evening that people can expect to go to a restaurant and not have other people's kids there.
A particular case in point was when DH and I were on holiday without our 4. We were recommended a restaurant on the beach. It was all a bit cheesy as there were 10 tables for 2 on the beach, looking at the ocean. But the food was fantastic. All was good until two separate couples turned up with their babies in tow. Baby 1 woke up and cried. Which woke Baby 2 up who cried. And all of a sudden there were 8 couples sat on the beach, having paid an arm and a leg for the privilege, listening to these 2 babies' screams echo around the Harbour. Completely bonkers.
All 4 of mine were EBF but I still managed to leave them at home. It's really not rocket science.
Do you know what I find worse than a baby tagging along where it's not wanted ?
Partners sitting there smiling inanely and getting underfoot.
Don't bring your partners along to xmas do's, people, that is a much worse offense than a cute baby
where on holiday?
quite the norm in many countries for children to be out late at night with their parents while on holiday
Also, it's a restaurant, not a nightclub. I don't know what restaurants some of you go to where there's a drunken rabble about to break out into chaos. I think the time is an issue though OP. 10pm is pretty late and I'd be more concerned for my friend getting tired, with being a relatively new mum, and if it was me booking the meal, knowing that bringing baby was a possibility, I'd have brought it forward.
Having said all that, I would declineva work night out. Friends ok, work not. But that's because work is separate from family.
If it were my mate I'd not say anything but actually be thinking "areyoufuckingkiddingme". A night out like that is something that most people would have been looking forward to for a long time, arranging childcare, posting on S&B for tips on what to wear, thinking about how much of a kid free laugh they're going to have with their friends they rarely get to see now. Then someone rolls up with a baby. Not cool, man! Totally changes the evening.
If she doesn't feel comfortable leaving the wean, whatever the reason, she shouldn't go. But it doesn't seen to have occurred to get that bringing the wee one isn't appropriate.
And your really being quite horrible here.
You posted saying your friend shouldn't bring her baby and she should have tried harder to bf her and you can't see why people might think you are a bit controlling and judgemental?
You don't get to choose how other people deal with their babies. Tough luck.
We bought dd to lots of social events when she was a baby. If in a house, I would feed her in a bedroom and put her to sleep in her carrier.
If out I would try to find a corner to feed her and settle her in her carrier.
It helped dd was a very content baby. She only cried when needing feeding, changing, or a cuddle.
I wanted dd with me all of the time. If people did not like it they never made it known to me.
AnyFucker - so true. I hate having to make conversation with some random OH who I have nothing in common with when really I want to be drunkenly shrieking with my mate about things only we find funny
that he doesn't get.
Well I've been to various restaurants and pubs since my PFB was born in July, my friends love him being with us.
I'm sure people judge me all the time, but I have a happy relaxed bf ebf baby and I don't care what other people think.
I haven't 'bothered' with a bottle either. It's a terrible thing that love being with my babe so much isn't it
And of COURSE it's normal to take your children out for dinner when you're on holiday. We do it all the time, but we choose the restaurants accordingly. Would I take them to a beach restaurant that had just 10 tables for 2? No, because that is completely bonkers.
If you are one of the posters who have said they'd be pissed off - why would you be pissed off, it's not as though you are being asked to do anything? It's not even as if the child is old enough to be running around or repeating everything you say - so there's not even the issue of minding what you say? The baby wont care if you are drinking tea or wine - teetotal or pissed out of your mind...so why do you care if she brings her baby?
I get why you wouldn't want to take your own
OP: Have you made your mind up yet if you don't want the baby there for your sake or the baby's?
And what craic said!!
Wow! Some real charmers on this thread.
AnyFucket, yes partners but someone I know brings their cat. To a fish restaurant.
Not unreasonable. I would be miffed if I was in your shoes, not because of the baby's wellbeing, that's of the mother's concern, but more the fact that there's nowt like a piercing scream of a baby to ruin a relaxing meal when you are paying to eat out. At some times, you can expect and tolerate this, but that late in the evening, no.It's pretty self centred of the mother. I think you are being self centred too (I would as well), but her self centredness is the one that would ruin the night for other people. She has the power to make a decision to go or not, bringing a baby along with little regard for what others want out of the evening is bad manners.
I could take my 6 months old anywhere and he would just sleep/cuddle. What is the problem?
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
''The restaurant is fully booked so it's going to be noisy. I just don't feel this is a great environment for a baby.''
''He should not be be in a restaurant at 10 o'clock onwards in my opinion.''
If his mother is ok about it why are you concerned? If the table is booked for 8pm, she possibly won't be there much later than 10pm anyway. Unless the baby is asleep/she's having a great time/much needed night out/whatever in which case good for her.
Lighten up? Live and let live? Season of goodwill etc etc?
People shut the fuck up about about breast or bottle feeding
YOU were the one who brought that up, why be surprised when people comment on it.
Jeez op you were the one that brought up the bottle!
Now I see it's about a baby being in a restaurant after 10? Tbh, if you behave towards her as you have on here she'll probably be gone home by then.
I just don't see what the harm is? It's a restaurant not a strip joint, baby will feed and sleep and if she can't keep baby settled she's the one that has to go home.
And I don't see why it totally changes the evening? Unless you're planning something v wild?!!?
all my babies were snacky and bF at 6 months. yogurt was about the only stalling thing DH could give if i popped out to the gym.
YABU I took ds to restaurants timed so he'd be asleep. If it were a family meal and he was awake it didn't matter as he'd get passed round. Even on holiday recently at 2 I took him but wanted him asleep first. If its that or your friend not go it should make no difference to you!
But forbidden you made it about breast or bottle feeding!
You came on here, all smug about how you made your baby take a bottle when your friend clearly couldn't be arsed to try again.
My own ds1 and ds2 were very obliging babies. They were breastfed, they took a bottle. I actually thought that people whose babies wouldn't take a bottle were probably using the wrong bottles. They hadn't heard of Avent. Avent were great.
Well, ds3 came along and suddenly Avent had been carved from the sulphur in the bowels of hell. As had NUK. As had MAM. As had Tommee Tippee. As had Adiri-the-one-shaped-like-a-boob-that-I-ordered-from-America. I rmember ds1 explaining to ds2 that all the bottle in that cupboard were the ones ds3 woudln't drink from.
But the worst thing wasn't any of those bottles. It was the look of torture on my baby's face, the wet tears, the red cheeks, the look of Why-are-you-doing-this-to-me-Mammy. With that look, you really can't try too often!
I couldn't go out. I couldn't leave him with anyone, not Mum, not MIL. I could sort-of leave him with dh on the understanding that dh would have perforated eardrums by the time I got home.
What I would have loved was for my friends to ask me out for a Christmas party because they would be my friends and they would get it and they would know that my ds wouldn't take a bottle and I could bring him and have a laugh. And ds3 would have been fine because he had me and he wouldn't cry and wouldn't grizzle.
FWIW, ds1 and ds2 are still obliging. And ds3 is still very entitled, despite not being the youngest any more!
Exactly what Chipping said there. I don't get what the issue is. The baby's presence does not affect your evening!
Get as drunk as you please, say what you like...it's a baby and it doesn't want anything from you!
I said she tried bf once. Didn't want to do it again
You are judging her for not wanting to do it again. Why?
This is not your baby and the choice about breast or bottle is not yours to make no matter how well off you believe everyone would be if she persisted and the baby eventually took the bottle. You seem quite jealous of the breastfeeding relationship between this mother and her baby.
forbidden you made it about breast or bottle feeding! You came on here, all smug about how you made your baby take a bottle when your friend clearly couldn't be arsed to try again. (Chipmonkey)
Yes, I saw that too in your remarks, Forbidden.
I don't think the OP is jealous Math...and I reckon it's quite an odd angle to come from.
I think she just thinks the way she did it was the easiest and makes the most sense. Something we are all prone to at times.
Some people are not very patient with the breastfeeding relationship because it tends to be an exclusive one.
How odd to be bothered. My eldest was never asleep at 7/8pm at that age but would probably have dropped off in a nice warm restaurant with lots of ambient noise. In fact we used to take him out in his pyjamas! Life doesn't stop because you've had a baby. It's quite common on the continent to see babies and children out in the evenings and they all seem much less uptight because if it.
I'm going on a girls' night out soon. One of the girls is probably bringing her 7 week old baby because he won't take a bottle and the baby cluster feeds in the evenings. It hasn't occurred to me this was a bad idea. It's not as if I have to feed the baby or look after him. I will drink wine, eat nice food and chat while she does the same but with a baby on the boob or asleep in the car seat. I doubt anyone else in the restaurant will even know he's there.
Chipping, in response to your question, it's because at 10pm, I don't want to look at, hear or even smell other people's children. If I'm out, I want to be out with my friends talking about something other than children. I don't want to have to patiently wait while you settle your baby and can return to the conversation. Because I do that all bloody day AND I'm paying someone else handsomely so I can sit at that table too.
That said, if you are coming to my house for dinner, bring your children, your dogs and your cats and stay well into the morning. The more the merrier and the longer the better.
Well I am a YANBU and I feel the same as GoldPlated. Everybody saying 'What's she supposed to do, starve it?' are missing the point IMO. I would say 'No. Not attend or manage her attendance to be able to breastfeed.'
On an adult might out I would not want a six month old baby to join us. Most of the sleeping comments I associate more with 6 week olds. By six months I would expect most babies to have a bedtime routine, to go down reasonably easily and to be able to go a good number of hours between feeds... whether they're BF or FF.
Saying all that... I think the 'she knows her baby' comment is valid. If she's very sure that the baby will spend most of the time sleeping, and not stuffing up the evening for everyone else, then I would probably come round to the idea.
I was and actually really upset by lovebunny's comment. Although people may feel the same way about some of mine...
...adult night out...
I think it depends on your works night out. Ours are pretty wild. So we might all be at a restaurant but would be loud, shouty, sweary...teary what have you. But never civilised. We meet through the year for lunches which are civiised and those of us that have to bring along dcs. But not on our Christmas night out. It would change the dynamic.
If it is a civilised meal I think there wouldn't be a problem, but in my experience Christmas meals with colleagues are not for babies of any age.
thecat you may not want to see, hear or smell someone elses baby, but you dont own the restaraunt so its not up to you.
Some babies have a bedtime routine at this age, but not all do and there is no law dictating they must.
And again some babies would be fine without a feed for a few hours at this age, some would not. I have had a mix babies thag would be fine, others that would not.
Ultimately unless it is a restaraunt that wont admit the baby then its fine for ops friend to take the baby. Some restarsunts have different licenses that dont allow babies ir children in after a certain time, if you want a guarateed child free night rhen go to one of those, otherwise its not up to you.
If the baby hasn't been invited on the night out then it shouldn't be there. That's my opinion. So it isn't fine to take the baby. It's a night out for adults not a baby's party.
Cat - thank you for replying. I really don't understand your POV, but at least I know what it is
vivienne it is a Restaurant the baby doesn't need a golden invitation to be there.
Honestly, you'd think someone had suggested bringing their ferret not their baby.
I'm being awful I know. But honestly why can't we have some child free time. is it just too much to ask.
You are not being unreasonable being a bit miffed that a baby is coming to a Christmas night out.
You are being unreasonable with your attitude about it. I mean why should she give her baby a bottle? Maybe she doesn't want too? My son has never had a bottle because I didn't want him to ever use one.
Maybe she is just planning on coming for an hour, eating and then going? You sound pretty judgmental of her.
YABU if she wants to bring her baby along then that's a decision for her to make and you as a friend shouldn't judge her on that
The thing about a breastfeeding mother and baby is that they are a pair. An invitation for one means an invitation for the other. Friends need to deal with that.
yadnbu, op, it would totally wreck the atmosphere having a baby of that age there. christmas nights out are wild affairs. friends with babies need to deal with that.
anyway, it's not a newborn, at six months the baby can have a feed, some food with the babysitter if they wake up, and then milk when the mother gets home. and if she can't bear to be parted from the baby she really should give the night out a miss.
why should she leave her baby for you?
Not your decision. Whether or not you feel a restaurant at 10pm is a suitable place for a baby is totally irrelevant as you are not Lord of The Universe.
No babies and no partners = a good Christmas piss up.
YANBU Why on earth would someone want to take a 6 month old child out to a restaurant on an adult only do is beyond me.
Yes it changes the dynamics of the evening. If I were her I wouldn't go.
The thing about a breastfeeding mother and baby is that they are a pair. An invitation for one means an invitation for the other. Friends need to deal with that.
So 10 people change the evening for 1?
Would have to be no invitation then as it is an adult only do.
Some restaurants/bars don't allow children in after a certain time.
I would also think about other diners some of whom may have got BSitters of their own to enjoy adult only company.
No, I wouldn't go if I were your friend.
Jeez what a horrible, horrible way to start a thread. I have scrolled through the first 100 posts or so.
First of all it's up to your 'friend' if she thinks it's an appropriate place for a baby. Not you. Why would you care, as long as the child doesn't disturb anyone in which ase, well she will probably just take it outside or home.
None of your business what she decides is the proper environment for him.
Secondly you've made it about making a child take a bottle from the OP - you imply that she is selfish somehow for not persisting with trying to make him have a bottle.
Well I tried many times and mine didn't till he was about 2...by which time it was a bit pointless.
The way it sounds, without being aware of the dynamics or her own attitudes, she can either come out with you and bring him, or leave him at home at the risk he will be difficult to handle for those looking after him, and will want feeding at some point and not take a bottle.
If I were her I'd not come, because I wouldn't want to be somewhere like that with a small baby anyway - but if she has no problem with that aspect then it's not really up to you to decide the baby shouldn't be there. That's her decision.
Horrible, arrogant attitude you're displaying anyway.
well my 6mo still cluster feeds all evening (unfortunately) so i can understand the friend. I'd bet she'd rather go without the baby and is rather pissed off that she can't, and just wants to go out for an evening. If it was me I'd come to some arrangement with my H to bring the baby in for a feed once or twice in the evening, but maybe she has reasons for that.
It will be her that will suffer the most, but maybe you should just accept that she might want to see her friends and has decided that if the only way she can do that is to bring the baby then she'll do it.
I had a baby that refused to take a bottle (not my current one) and dh had to bring her out to a hen do I was on to feed. They all had a miserable evening with her screaming.
I have taken my babies to meals out in restaurant in the evening. My babies were all exclusively breastfed and I am a social soul, and it never occurred to me to stop going out for months. My babies were happy to sleep, maybe have a wee feed, sleep again. If they got fretful, I guess we would have had to leave - but it never happened.
Obviously I didn't stay out late and get trollied, but a nice meal and glass of wine with my female friends occasionally was just the ticket.
Threads like this make me really appreciate my lovely friends.
by the way - can I just ask, WHY don't you want the baby there?
I it a) you feel sorry for the baby
b) you think it will spoil the atmosphere/put a dampener on things for everyone else
c) you're afraid it will cry and make a nuisance?
If it's a, then that's up to her
if it's b, then perhaps don't invite her, and tell her it's not going to be a child-friendly party - but don't make it her fault for not using a bottle as again, that's none of your concern
If it's c then I'm sure she will deal with it
OP, does everyone else in your group feel the same, or just you? I don't see why the mum has to become a social outcast, just because of a feeding issue! I'm lucky in that my bf ds has taken a bottle, so when I go next week dh will look after him. The issue I had was getting someone to look after ds until dh gets home from work, which my dp's are doing. If they hadn't, I also would have taken ds with me. I was upfront with the person organising the meal, and they were fine with it. It's the mum's decision, not yours, especially if you are the only one in the group who has an issue. YABU.
This isn't just a meal out in the evening though is it?
It's a Christmas do. Where people get drunk, have fun, dance, bugger about.
I don't get some of you.
The friend isn't going to have a good time is she? Sat there playing mummy whilst her mates are getting merry.
I don't get why the OP has had such a bashing either.
YABVVU. If she doesn't want to leave her baby and is still breastfeeding then that's her decision. Well done your friend for putting her baby first and sticking to her own ideals. If you managed to get your baby to feed from a bottle after much perseverance then that's fine but maybe she doesn't want to do that. I didn't want to do that with mine either. That doesn't mean that she should be scoffed at or made to feel she is spoiling other people's nights out because she is putting her baby's needs before your piss up. I think you sound like a bit of a rubbish friend and hiding behind the facade that its because the baby would be in a noisy environment is just lame. Man up and say what you really think, OP - you don't want any babies there.
Hm I think you are BU although I personally would rather have walked across hot coals that have taken any of mine out on a night out like that (would have fed a 6 month old before going out if bottles had been a problem).
Providing she clears off if the baby gets too noisy (by which I mean loud crying) then I don't think you can complain really.
Everlong, because she's been very aggressive from the off, I think.
Also, yes, you may be right - the frined may not enjoy it much if she is stuck there with a baby.
But how on earth does that make it the OP's decision for her to bring said baby or not? It doesn't sound like the OP is suggesting it out of sympathy, going by her attitude. But I could be wrong - that's why I have asked the question, WHY doesn't she want the baby there.
If your friend sees this, I don't think she'll be your friend for much longer. She isn't asking you to b/f the baby, look after the baby, is she?? There's gonna be approx 10 of you, you say, so what's your problem? Enjoy yourself at the 'do' and don't let her caring, sharing, mothering ways prevent you from having the time of your life - hopefully for her sake, she will never have to go out with you again after this.
Because Rooney the OP is entitled to her opinion. I agree with.
I'd be a bit miffed if one of my friends thought it was ok to bring a baby on a Christmas night out. Not they would, thankfully.
So many unsympathetic voices.
My baby could not and wouod not take the bottle, trust me, I did NOT enjoy that. I eventually weaned him straight to the cup, when he was 10 months old. He refused to drink powder milk too, fussy little soandso!
Some babies are like that. Try walk a mile. Try to be sympathetic.
I was not allowed to come to my best friend's wedding as it was an adults only do, and my 7 week old would not take the bottle. Fuck that.
OP you are uncharitable and unreasonable.
Your friend won t stay long anyway, probably just amking an appearance so as not to let you down.
Thank God I had my babies in a Latin country whe they were loved an welcome everywhere.
I agree with Everlong, I don't think the OP deserves a bashing for being honest and saying she doesn't want a baby at a christmas do. I wouldn't want a baby there either,
Yes Everlong that's fair enough but in that case, why is she dressing it up as concern for the baby? And getting angry with anyone who suggests she is wrong about the bottle issue, or that it is part of the problem - what right has she to judge the other parent for not 'persisting' with bottle training her baby?
I find that really shows a lack of willingness to accept other people's decisions about whether or not to use a bottle.
What I'm saying is, if she just feels the baby will spoil the atmosphere, then yes, I understand that. and SAY SO.
If she feels sorry for the baby then she doesn't even have a case. That's none of her concern.
If she resents the 'friend' for not making her child take a bottle, or not leaving it alone regardless, then she's really unreasonable for that.
I don't think she's dressed it up.
In her first she says ' aibu to not want her to bring him along? '
Anyway got to dash or ds will be late for school!
She's repeated in nearly all her posts t hat she doesn't think it is a 'suitable environment' for the baby and that her friend won't enjoy it if she brings the baby with her.
(we have no school today )
She would have stil got flamed which ever way she said she didn't want the baby there,
There might have been some debate and angst over it, yes. But I think she's handled the while thread really poorly.
Many people have said they understand that babies might dampen the atmosphere. Even me! If she'd asked for ways of getting this across then she would have had some thoughtful responses along those lines.
As it is she's come across pretty badly.
I cannot believe te bashing op is getting for wanting an adults only event, not everyone wants babies and children about.
The op was bu to expect friend to force her baby to take a bottle. If baby and mum do not want it than fair enough. Mabey if op is such a good friend that she is , she can organise to meet this friend for lunch in the day or weekend with a few other friends so that the lady is not missing out
Piglet I don't think that wanting a baby free evening is the cause of the 'bashing'.
I'm amused at the posters saying things like I can take my DC to restaurants because I have nice friends. Er no? You have friends who either privately sigh or for whom the world revolves around babies so they are happy with it
It doesn't you know? The world revolves around many many things. Babies are for most, a short lived passage in life. We love our offspring but don't live through them.
There are cute puppies, kittens and babies. Being cute does not get you a ticket to events meant for adults.
I don't think the baby would enjoy it too much being in a noisy environment trying to sleep in the evening. My ds would be unsettled all evening until he got to his cot as he is an ultra light sleeper
Rooney I agree with you re some of the bashing OP has come across badly
I agree Piglet, I don't think a baby would necessarily be happy in a noisy restuarant or bar either - but that's not what made me think the OP was being unreasonable.
*I'm amused at the posters saying things like I can take my DC to restaurants because I have nice friends. Er no? You have friends who either privately sigh or for whom the world revolves around babies so they are happy with it
It doesn't you know? The world revolves around many many things. Babies are for most, a short lived passage in life. We love our offspring but don't live through them.*
Actually, your second point cancels out your first. I have 'nice' friends, who didn't sigh inwardly when I had my baby with me (thanks) because, yeah, they knew it was just a very short phase in our lives so really, why stress it?
I don't think the OP is coming across badly.
If I was BF and it was a female night out, I wouldn't go for several reasons.
1. Because my 6 month baby would be in bed not at a restaurant/bar/pub.
2. Because it's not fair on my friends who might want to get merry.
3. Because it's an adult environment and other diners are entitled to a child free evening.
If it was a lunch 'do' it wouldn't be a problem.
4. Because many
I would love to see these babies that sleep through anything I have yet to come accross one
'Be prepared I have my judgey pants on.
We have organised our meal for the weekend before Christmas. Friend is bringing her 6mo baby because the one and only time she has left him, he refused to take the bottle.
She has since then never bothered to try again. My baby took ages to take to the bottle too so I know how hard it is, but I persisted and eventually we got there. '
How is this not coming across badly? She even says she is judging her friend for not 'persisting' with a bottle.
I find that very closed minded, but then, each to their own.
I can't believe some people think it's ok for someone to take a baby along to an adult meal and potentially spoil ut for other adults. All this 'my friends wouldn't mind' is rubbish. I have a 10 month old and would be beyond pissed off if I'd gone to the trouble of making arrangements, getting dressed up and going out to be faced with someone elses baby!
Evening meals out are for relaxing, having a drink and having a break from parenting - not for sharing someone elses parenting.
If the baby won't settle at home then she shouldn't go. Or she should be prepared to leave to go to the baby. OP I'd feel the same but wouldn't feel the need to voice concerns about the baby. I'd be concerned about our night out being spoilt. That may make me selfish - tough, we're mum's not martyrs! Bet nobody would suggest a ff baby went to the pub with it's dad because daddy usually does the settling. I don't need telling that dad's don't have breasts, I know that already and it has nothing to do with my point.
I can't understand why at 6 months the baby can't be fed before the mother goes out, then fed again when she gets in tbh
I can't imagine anything worse than being in charge of a 6 month old baby at an event with no other children present :shudder:
4. Because many restaurants don't have baby changing/feeding facilities. I have never once been out for a restaurant meal and seen a baby being fed at the table next to me at 10pm.
Although I wouldn't be bothered if someone brought a baby, providing they went home if the baby screamed.
Think a newborn who had to feed more regularly is different (and I do love a newborn, although would have preferred to be home with my newborn that out in a crowded restaurant!)
Rooney The Breast/bottle debate isn't the main issue. This friend breast feeds. The OP is stating that there is no alternative because the friend hasn't tried bottle feeding again. The friend obviously isn't against bottle feeding. The friend may well be desperate for her DC to take the bottle so that she can go out without having to worry.
Babies don't always run like clockwork, he is still very young, sometimes they cluster feed, might need extra feeding/comfort if teething or just require it. Wat if the aby wakes up between feeds he s going to be grumpy until op friend comes home to feed him, personally I would not feel happy about leaving a bttle refusing bf baby away from me
Op isn't suggesting that her friend becomes a social pariah. She's not saying she doesn't appreciate the need to breastfeed. She feels that for one adult Christmas bash baby should stay at home. She made the mistake of wondering why the woman hasn't sorted out bottle feeding - but really only because Op thinks that would be the solution to this.
If a good friend turned up at an night out with a baby then, because they were my friend, I'd be nice about it. But I WOULD sigh inwardly to be honest because I'd be really looking forward to an evening out that had the focus on adults and hopefully got away from children for just one night.
Well she hasn't told us what the friend's take on it is and tbh I think this is probably quite relevant.
If friend is militantly arguing to attend with a baby, that's different to a friend who wants to make it take a bottle but can't, also the oP said the friend has 'decided bottle feeding is not for her' so that gives us a small inkling that the friend doesn't want to try it again.
We need more info and it['s not forthcoming.
I would feed baby at 7.30pm in pjs/ babygro and pop in buggy. Then head to restaurant for 8pm. They would sleep through or wake as we left. We do it all the time when both adults out
But if only one out and close by I would just feed and put to bed by 7.30pm, then head out. I doubt baby would know I had left. ( 6 month olds don't really wake every 30 mins do they? Most do at least a few hours if not Half/ whole night)
Op I got my wires crossed. In you're op it said "there'll be about 10" or some such. I realise you were talking about time!
Still, I do think it's sad how we hate children in this country. Wouldn't be so much of an issue on the cOntonent.
' I have 'nice' friends, who didn't sigh inwardly when I had my baby with me '
how do you know that? You have nice friends who are too polite to tell you hat they think
Does everyone else in the group know DF wants to bring the baby? What do they think? If they don't know then they should be informed as they might want to pull out.
I would not want to spend an evening Christmas party with a baby and might well feign some excuse if one was being foisted on the group. It would depend on the friend, the baby and the venue.
Uterus - we don't hate children at all (well, most of us don't) but why can't people want some adult, childfree time too?
This is exactly why I haven't had an evening out for years....exclusively BF my DS who would not settle for anyone else, except if fed and taken out in the pram (wouldn't do that at night). He was always in bed by 7.
At 6 months he was teething!!! Often woke up for a nurse for comfort despite having carpool, powders, bonjela etc, it wasn't the fact I was ' a matyr', jeesh....sleep deprivation, I know it, 8 wakings a night, some for comfort many for feeds. He's a very big boy 99% percentile for height. He sleeps through now but I'm due to give birth ( today maybe as I've had a show and contractions are 6 mins apart), no nights out for me again, social life on hold unless people are happy to come to our for dinner. We have no family within 3 hours drive who can babysit! Not an option.
Bottles werNHL no no, he refused and I didn't want to push it, I didn't get on with expressing either, I had enough on my plate with teething hell and sleep deprivation plus running my businesses from home during the nap times.
I personally wouldn't have taken DS out in the evening as he wouldn't have settled and would have screamed the restaurant down. But as a result I have not seen my friends socially for ages, Had the odd night hereand there where DS was settled an sleeping through but generally no. it's good your friend feels like she can still meet up tbh but I can see both sides.
The options for your friend were to come with baby or not come at all in her eyes, which is fair enough, you invited her......did you know that was her stance when you invited her or has this taken you by surprise? The fact they come as a package at the moment?
The nice friends who don't sigh inwardly! Really?
They may well sigh inwardly. You will never know will you?!
YABU. If her baby won't take a bottle then she can either bring him or not go herself. I'm not sure why the presence of a (presumably sleeping) baby will effect your evening. If he's unsettled she'll probably leave. I don't think it would kill you to show a bit of tolerance to a friend.
Just because your baby took a bottle doesn't mean hers will, I think you're mean to judge over this. Imagine if you had a bottle-refuser (who wouldn't take one whatever you tried) and your friends wanted to exclude you from socialising because of it.
Actually I now think the baby might get over-excited at the acres of cleavage normally on display in a restaurant near Christmas.
My 6 month old takes a bottle happily, finishes it, and then looks round for his mother. And cries. Taking a bottle does not automatically mean the baby will settle after it.
I agree double, it is fine to want a child free evening, not everyone wants to be entertained by yur little darlings. Does not mean we hate children, I take ds out for a meal inthe day and he sat in his buggy and was as god as gold, but in the evening would be as cranky as anything if he was tired and trying to sleep
Get over yourself 2 of my sons were bottle fed and I still took them every where.
well bully for you all of you whose baby goes to bed. My 6 mo just does not sleep. She does not particularly like a bottle, she cluster feeds all evening. She does not sleep at night. It is extremely miserable for me. I would love to go out with my female friends (in my case now I would leave the baby if I had anyone to leave her with), and I think the only person it would affect would be me.
They would all drink lots of wine and not for a moment think about the baby. i would have a couple of hours out, but would relish the opportunity to get out of the house. It would be me who would be most affected by the baby, not my friends, and then I would go home and leave them to it.
I don't understand why it affects the OP. One little 6 month old is not going to affect the atmosphere. It is just a little baby fgs. If she was my friend, I would be pleased she was coming out and I could catch up with her, and maybe I would even take my turn with the baby so she can get a break.
I really don't understand why this is a big issue. It is such a short period of time, and this time next year, if she wants to bring a toddler along, I could understand if you posted then.
So its a bit of a jump from wanting an adult only Christmas do to "hating children". People who are obsessed with their children are boring. Theres a balance to be found.
I don't understand. Am I the only one who likes babies? If my mate brought her baby on a night out, I'd probably park myself next to her, have a chat, and offer to fetch drinks or hold baby so she could have her hands free to eat.
Why should one assume that the baby will ruin the night out? Presumably mum isn't going to let the baby scream all evening (thus the point of bringing baby) and short of actually changing nappies on the dinner table, I just can't see what's so potentially awful.
I would not sigh inwardly.
YADNBU. Can't get my head round why anyone would want to take their 6 month old baby on a night out, that's madness,
It's an adult environment, drinking, noise, and you said yourself that it will be going on until about 10pm.
NOT ideal for a baby. They should be tucked up in bed, not be surrounded by noise, bright lights and dragged out on a night out just because mum wants to go out.
If you have kids and you want a night out, either be prepared to leave them at home so you can go, or stay at home with them.
(Mummy of two recently small ones myself as well.)
i just don't get this, six-monthers aren't the newborn feeding and eating machines... they play, they sit up, they eat, they are attention-hoovers, and that's when they're not tired.
so fuzzy, it would change the dynamic of your evening, but in a way that pleased you. this is fine, then, so long as everyone else at the table (and wider restaurant) feels the same.
It's not about hating children. It's about what is appropriate or suitable. A latish night out in the run-up to Christmas in a restaurant is not appropriate. It's a great change now and again to have a night out and away from kids.
It's not all about YOU, parent. It's also about other people who may not want to hear your child screaming or have your toddler running wild around the place late at night. Because for every decent parent who exercises control there is one who doesn't.
I was recently at the theatre. £50 for tickets. A couple brought their 3-yr old child and a 6-month old toddler. To a loud musical. They couldn't get a sitter, despite having the money for the tickets. 3-yr old was bored and the father kept talking and playing with him. 6-month old started to cry. The parents seemed to think this was acceptable. After 10 minutes of this, and much muttering from the audience, front of house finally asked them to take the children out. Parents then kicked up merry hell and disrupted performance even more.
I agree aitch
You lot who think it's ok to take a baby out to a Christmas do, don't you ever let your hair down?
Or are you in mummy mode 24/7.
YABU that it will be bad for the baby...
Completely YANBU to not want a baby there & not fare on other diners. I adore all my friends DC, but on the rare and precious occasions I get to go out without my own DC, I don't want to have to be in fun auntie mode... I want to say fuck a lot and drink my own body weight in wine .
and yes I am in 'mummy' mode all the time because I have to be.
You think that is sneery?
But not everyone else wants a baby in tow. They just don't. Doesn't make them bad.
Especially when you're talking a Christmas night out with friends.
I know - and I'm not someonewho would take a baby anyway.
I just thought you were inferringthat mummy mode was something to be ashamed of
Erm no of course not.
But sometimes it's good to go out with adults and do adult stuff.
We then go back to being mummy.
Yup, it is. Some of us aren't here by choice though. We simply have no one to babysit.
That must be hard.
But what would you do once the baby was 12 months, 2 years old etc? You really wouldn't be able to take a child of that age out to a Christmas do.
If I had a friend in your shoes I would see if we could all do something in the daytime that would include her.
sorry but yabu. at 6 months its unlikely her baby will ever take a bottle. i left it too late with dd too. if you want your friends company you have to accept that she's a mum and has other responsibilities. At least she's making the effort and coming not using her bf baby as a
very valid excuse.
sure, rooney, but it's not a problem apparently for the OP's dining companion. (hesitate to use 'friend' at this stage).
Yes Everlong - I think most people are kind like that and would try and include someone in a daytime slot, or something.
I just don't socialise! I don't mind though. I was never very good at it.
Has your friend tried using a cup? I don't know what the guidance is now, but back in my day you were encouraged to start them having starting with a sippy cup well before 6m?
Ah that's a shame Rooney
I am not a great socialiser tbh, I'm lazy and cba with small talk.
But I love going out with my close friends.
Hope you get to have some fun though
I like tiling
give me a night in with a tub of grout
As tiny babies mine would have just slept and ate but by 6 months there would be no chance.
If they started off asleep walking into a noisy restaurant would wake them up and then they would want to be nosy, noisy and probably a little grumpy for a few hours before going back to sleep.
whatever floats your boat!
I've made them sound like dwarfs, and not the happy or sleepy ones!
I few years ago we went to a restaurant for my dsis birthday, her friend had just had a baby, around 6 weeks old. Her husband came along and sat in another part of the restaurant so the friend could bf whenever she needed.
When I go on an night out with friends, I don't want even the possibility that I may have to entertain
or see a baby or child. I spend enough time doing that as it is. I also had a baby who wouldn't take a bottle until 13 months, so I know what it's like from the other side as well.
If the baby was newborn or a couple of months old, fair enough, but not a 6 month old.
That's the funny thing. In normal life I love babies. Quite daft about them.
Will always hold them, feed them and play with them.
Just not when I want to get merry
See I think you're just plain annoyed that your mate potentially isn't coming out and being one of the gang and you're frustrated by this fact (nowt wrong with feeling this btw). When she said she wanted to bring her baby did you say "ah well I don't think that's a good idea, the restaurant is going to be rammed, it will be a rowdy piss-up etc..." Or did you just keep quiet?
Does she actually want to come? Is she, by telling you she'll need to bring her baby, secretly wanting you to almost tell her that that it's not a good idea?
See, if I was that mother, I couldn't think of anything worse than bringing my child out at that age, at that time, in that environment. Maybe her partner is a bit useless and can't cope with a potentially restless child. If she really can't feed up the child before she leaves, leave some milk in a bottle or cup just in case the child decides to take some, without fearing the wee thing will be constantly fretting then it really isn't the kind of baby that's going to be asleep the whole time in a car-seat oblivious to its surroundings in a busy restaurant is it?
When my first was 6 months old I was an anti-social fecker anyway and the idea of a big meal like that at Xmas would have been my idea of hell I would definitely have made my excuses and snuggled up with my baby for the evening instead. Do you think your mate might be feeling that way but is too embarrassed to say so because she thinks you'll give her a bit of hard time?
Was she an understanding friend when you had your baby?
I sympathise but YABU.
In a noisy restaurant, the baby is likely to slumber to sleep after her/his feed.
I had to take mine in their moses basket to enough functions when I was stuck. Most people forgot about the baby very quickly.
The fact you managed to introduce the bottle to a reluctant is an achievement you can be proud of, but it does not follow that others will / must have the same experience.
At 2 years I also take out in the evening. Do bedtime routine, pop in buggy in pjs and wrapped up in cosy toes. Then take out.
We usually go out with friends for 8pm meal ( 6/7pm return from work for most). We have 2 under 3 who would go into double buggy at 7.30 having been fed/ bathed/ changed at home. We would wheel buggy out and walk or use a black cab to restaurant. In 3 years one has woken once doing this, we return ( not late prob 10/10.30) and transfer from buggy to cots.
You just have to think where you go ( enough room for buggy etc to be out the way- in summer outside, not super noisy)
Like I said, I would have no hesitation leaving at home as they could be fed, and fed again a few hours later on return. But also if children are taken with you they don't have to be the children screaming and running around and ruining others evening. Just find a solution that works for you
YANBU An adult meal out would not be enhanced for many by a 6 month old. Cute as he/she may be the baby is likely at times to be tired, grumpy, messy, noisy and bored. At 6mo presumably this baby is not exclusively BF. He/she can surely go 4 hours without a BF - the baby could have some food and a drink of water at home (but most likely should be fast asleep in bed at this time of night). I would feel differently if this was a single mum with no back up as it would be a shame to exclude someone because they could not get/afford a babysitter but this baby's father is available to take care of the baby at home so let him!
Moomin could the husband not have been allowed to join the others at their table? (Did he enter the restaurant by the tradesman's entrance too?!)
YANBU for not wanting her to bring the baby along. One of my friends did this......not that I would have ever said anything....but seriously, a nice girly night out......do we really want a baby there??? No!!!!!!!
She should either come alone and leave the baby at home or just not come at all.
I really don't understand why people keep going on about me forcing her to bottle feed her child.
The baby was tried with the bottle once, and he didn't like it so she never tried again. Her decision. The occasion where he was tried with the bottle was with his father when she was out with friends.
Fair enough she doesn't have to keep trying him with the bottle, and now she obviously knows that pretty much wherever she goes he will have to come with her.
That is the point that I am making.
Wow I'd say an adult evening out is not the place to take a baby at the best of times.
But on Mad Friday, where people will likely be steaming drunk having gone out from the office etc I think it's especially insane!
And I hate it when I go for a meal out in be evening and get subjected to a soundtrack of children crying and getting tetchy.
It's because of your implied eye rolling and tutting that went along with your initial comment forbidden. It was very much "I did this - why the heck can't she" & because she hasn't gone through all the "hassle" I did getting my baby onto a bottle I now have to suffer the presence of this baby in the evening, which is going to
ruin my night be dreadful for the baby!
"Friend is bringing her 6mo baby because the one and only time she has left him, he refused to take the bottle. She has since then never bothered to try again. My baby took ages to take to the bottle too so I know how hard it is, but I persisted and eventually we got there."
that's so amazing that you see eye-rolling and tutting there... because there isn't any.
I think the idea of having some regular nights out which are "bring kids!" and some less regular nights out which are "definitely adults only!" works. At least the boundaries are set in advance in these cases.
I'm at the age where my friends and contemporaries are sprogging left, right and centre. As a result of this there are always one or two babbies anywhere a group of us goes, even if we're going there to get pissed. You get used to it - I've now reached the stage where, unless a baby is starting to sound like a black & decker drill (which has happened only once or twice), crying isn't that annoying to me. Which is fortunate as I'll have one of my own come Feb.
I don't think a 6 month old is going to present too many problems, really.
Is it the same friend you called 'childish' the other week forbidden?
Haven't read the whole thread, I must admit, but I for one, wouldn't want my baby in a restaurant when I'm trying to
get pissed have some adult time, but honestly wouldn't bother me one bit if someone else brought theirs, don't think they would stay long if it started kicking off, and if it didn't? fine!
AlienRefucksLooksLikeSnow did you know that it's against MN rules to bring up previous threads in a new thread?
And no it wasn't.
Which rule book are you looking at forbidden? Because it isn't, and Alien isn't the first person to ask you that question on this thread.
I think you sound quite smug and judgey. Just because you chose to 'persevere' with giving your baby a bottle, doesn't mean that others have to. IME, 'persevere' in that context means many instances of an upset child and fraught parents - why would you do that just to have a couple of child-free nights out.
But see that's the thing alien with them babies they do sometimes kick off and act unpredictably so there's no saying they'd sit quietly in their pram is there?
No I didn't actually, is it? and why does that piss you off so much?
Yes, that's why I said if it did, she probably wouldn't stay long, can't see soemone staying if their baby is a PITA but that's up to her.
So better all in all if she didn't bring the baby in the first place
Better for who though? I would love to see a baby at a dinner (if it definitely wasn't mine!!) as long as if it starts she leaves!! maybe there's other friends there who would like to see it too, we don't know but if it's not impacting on the evening for everyone else, where's the harm? Poor cow must be dying to get out if she's considering it, because I wouldn't
Better for everyone I guess.
When people are out having a drink and a giggle I doubt that anyone would want a baby in the group for more than a quick coo.
I don't know. Maybe it's me being a grump. It's just that I've done a long service of all things baby. Now it's time to partay
I don't see how someone else's baby stops you drinking, swearing, having a good time? It's not like it's a small child who will repeat what you say or be running around. It's a small baby.
What is the point you're making? You don't want your friend to bring her baby, you don't want her to force the baby to take a bottle...what exactly do you want her to do - stay at home missing out on all the fun?
Ok, forgive me if all these points have already been mentioned I have not read the entire thread.
The reason so many people are saying yabu OP is because of where your focus lies.
If you were to say "a friend of mine wants to bring a baby to an evening works do aibu to not want her to?" then most people would say yanbu. I certainly wouldn't be over the moon about it although personally I'd just suck it up as essentially a moody baby is the parents problem not yours.
However your issues seems to be 1. The mother has not tried hard enough to get the baby to take a bottle and 2. That restaurants are unsuitable places for babies. Both of which are not necessarily true and make you sound self-righteous. That's what makes me think yabu anyway.
Not better for the poor mare that can't go because the OP doesn't want her to take her baby, no reason to believe others would feel that way, I wouldn't.
She probably won't stay long, but I do think it's mean to say (not that OP has) that she can't go at all.
Not read whole thread but YABU. I have a 3 month old who is breastfed (currently attached) so doing this one handed. In the early days I had 2 party invites. It was made clear baby was welcome even though she would actually take a bottle. However, in the end I didn't go. (too tired).
If the persons involved are true friends they will be glad to see that person with or without baby.
I don't have children. One of my friends used to do this all the time. Still does and her daughter is 5 now.
I hate it. There's a subtle expectation that we should all be delighted as she's so cute.... . She is. But not in this situation.
I like kids. I like my friends kids but I also like having uninterrupted conversations in the evening. And eating a decent meal without the person opposite me having to play choo choo trains....
One of the problems is that, in a group of people. there will always be one or two who make it all about the baby "oh look, she's opening her eyes" "Aaagh, look, she's smiling in her sleep" ... constantly dragging the conversation back from the interesting/funny topic people are enjoying to talk about the baby again.
Mind you, some people do this even when their baby isn't present.
I never said a restaurant isn't a suitable place for a baby. But that late at night, in a small, rammed, noisy place with people drinking and there is also live music.
We have already pre-ordered. So I'm guessing 10 will be the earliest we will finish.
I agree I wrote the original bottle comment wrong.
All I meant was I understand that its hard to give a baby a bottle when they refuse. When mine did it made my life easier.
She decided not to keep trying, so will have to bring the baby.
I'm not judging her for bf. that is not the issue!
I am judging her for bringing a 6mo out late at night, in an adult environment.
so you would indeed rather she didn't come at all?
If OP knew her friends baby couldn't be left (for whatever reason), why did the OP book and invite said friend along? Surely a lunch meet up would have been more appropriate. You're supposed to be her friend, after all.
Because wewere the group of friends want a Christmas night out, not a lunch with kids present and not being able to drink too much in the middle of the day.
It can't all revolve around one person and the way she's chosen to organise her life.
If I was your friend, OP I would not want to go anyway - it's not like I'd be able to really relax and have a laugh.
If I was your friend and had just read this thread with all your comments, I wouldn't be your friend any more.
Oh.. have not read entire thread, but me personally? I wouldn't want her to bring her baby.
They could all take their kids and it would be a different meal - also if I have left my kids at home for a meal out with my friends,t I dont want to spend my evening listening to your kid.... harsh but evening meals out are such a treat and its nice to actually catch uo and talk without the distraction of kids.
donnie todays lesson is titled I dont give a fuck if you would be my friend or not. Tomorrows lesson is the same as today.
wewereherefirst I didn't book the original meal. However it was booked to suit the majority. A lunch meet up where everyone could attend would not have been possible. We are having it so close to Christmas because that night was the only time everyone was available.
But no we should cancel the dinner and organise a lunch where only a couple of us can go just to suit one person right?
I don't think YABU in not wanting a baby along on a night out.
Whilst it's true that it shouldn't affect enjoyment, it probably will. People would naturally act differently in a baby's presence, talk lower etc. People will be mindful rather than let themselves go.
Personally I'd have a night out and a lunch
YANBU op and I dont know why some people are trying to lay into you This child is 6 months old not 6 weeks ffs! Its an adult night out-the clue's in the title...
If my dh brought any of my dc's on a night oot bcause they were crying I would rip him a new one! there crying but your not in to hear it-result!! Seriously A LOT of martyrs who are making rods for their own backs on this thread....
I would and have taken babies to late meals and dinner parties before,and still do now they are toddlers,but luckily we have friends,ones without kids themselves,who enjoy being around them and see it as part of the fun.If shes bf then surely the baby will just be on her lap and she will feed him when hes hungry and then cuddle him when hes asleep etc?I dont know about anyone elses but my babies have all been able to nap in loud places.
mistress no it was a joint hen/ birthday and all women, i doubt he'd have wanted to join in any how.
I'm surprised no one has called you a troll yet forbidden... some ladies on here can be quite vicious!
Tell your friend to loose the baby!
Late meals and dinner parties at people's homes are a bit different. You all know each other and it's more relaxed.
A baby in a restaurant where there are other guests is different.
I'm just picturing where DH has his Christmas staff do and can't imagine one minute a baby in a pram being there.
OP why are you so aggressive?
Are you sure Amber. I know lots of people who, like myself, grit their teeth and smile with fake delight when someone pitches up -yet again - with their kids in tow to a dinner party or to a restaurant meal where everyone else has got a babysitter.
Some babies feed a lot still at 6 months if you feed on demand,especially in the evenings.
To be honest, I'm surprised a restaurant would agree to a baby being on the premises that late. I would be very surprised if I saw someone sitting in a restaurant feeding a baby at 10 o clock on a dark cold December night.
come now, the OP is getting a massive pasting from lots of quite nasty people... if she's narked it's no surprise.
btw has anyone checked whether the license excludes kids after a certain time?
Lets discount the very personal attacks on me then.
Yes say IABU. You can state why to, and I will listen and take on board.
But to say things like I wouldn't want my baby around you, you are a terrible person etc
what do you expect? me to just sit there and smile.
How inconsiderate of your friend not to put her child on a bottle at 6 months in order to accommodate your social life. Scared the baby will take attention away from you?
jesus, people never fail to surprise me on here. this place is mental. i'm glad you're all imaginary.
what are you talking about LivisDil ?? You strange woman.
I personally wouldn't have taken my baby out so late at night for an adult meal where the restaurant will be full and there will be live music.
My baby would take the bottle at 6 months. But I do sympathise with my friend as it was a struggle. So I had the advantage of having me time, and my dh would look after our child.
My friend doesn't want to try the bottle again. So I'm saying she does have the problem where it cannot solely be her bf looking after their child.
In her position I wouldn't go. I wouldn't take my baby out that late at night.
Again she can bottle or bf the kid. I couldn't give a shit to be honest.
Yeah the woman who wants to take a baby to a place where there will be numerous pissed up people is the good parent here-right?
Wont take a bottle?-your just not forcing it in hard enough.....
btw has anyone checked whether the license excludes kids after a certain time?
Hm good point!
Well I didn't book the table.
But I think it was asked whether there would be room for a pushchair when it was booked so I'm assuming that children are allowed after a certain time otherwise they would have said at the time.
What a mad thread, and is LividDil for real?
I wouldn't want a baby being the centre of attention at an adult night out TBH,
Do you think your friend feels pressured to come?
Maybe she would feel better just staying at home with her baby?
OP i have just laughed my arse off at your comment to donnie
and for once, as much as it hurts, i agree with anyfucker
OP your responses are bloody spot on.
Don't let the bastards grind you down . <high five>
Indeed usual let's all have a little and chill
Sometimes I do not understand the working out of a small minority of mumsnetters.
This thread is such a time.
Thank Christ I have normal friends
Be careful tfc, agreeing with me could become a habit if you are not careful
God bless us, everyone
all round then
I know AF, its a bugger because recently i have found myself nodding in agreement to a post and look up and see it is you!!
Only on mumsnet!
Never, in all my born days, have I ever heard of a baby on a Christmas night out IRL!
Op is spot on.Her friend has her PFB goggles on I'm afraid!
'I wouldn't want a baby being the centre of attention at an adult night out TBH, '
This is a representative quote from one faction here that happens to state the question very neatly and bluntly.
What is wrong with you people? If this is not jealousy I will eat my hat. You resent babies because they distract adult attention from where it should be focused?
People become parents. For some it is a joy. They do not feel the desperate need to pack their children or babies away at 7 pm and claim their 'lives' back. What is the problem with that?
Tfc, I think you should see your gp..you clearly are not quite yourself
I think you need to grow up, becoming a mother doesn't mean you have to spend 24/7 with your children.
I want to have a laugh
and get drunk at a christmas night out. not coo over someone elses baby.
Jealous of what exactly?
I would feel the same. I just don't think adult-orientated get-togethers in the evening are an appropriate environment for a baby/toddler/young child.
Having a baby there totally changes the dynamic, to be honest.
I was always happy to have babies/toddlers around during the day - but as soon as the clock ticked past 7pm then that was adult time when adults got to relax, and babies/toddlers got to be in bed and sleeping
I have said I would really rather not have taken my own baby anywhere on a night out. I needed that time away from my baby.
But I don't understand the ire about someone else's baby.
OK if it was a group of toddlers, but 1 baby?
Yes, jealous of what?
i know, booking an appt. asap!
So I take it if everyone going to this dinner wanted to bring their children, that would be ok with the people who think it's alright for this one particular woman to do it?
I love other peoples babies, just not at an adult night out.
Fact is babies are very boring (well, I think so anyway). I found my own babies pretty dull much of the time...so anyone else's...well, I would smile through gritted teeth and supress the yawns valiantly, through sheer politeness.
And, if they rocked up at an evening do with baby attached, I would do a momentary polite coo-ing, then spend the evening distancing myself as far away as possible.
Thank God...thank God, that my friends were the same. We loved our babies, but we also loved some time away from them - and on an evening out baby-talk wasn't allowed past the 9pm watershed.
todays lesson is titled I dont give a fuck if you would be my friend or not. Tomorrows lesson is the same as today.
That is going in the sleg-bank for later.
No one's jealous of the baby! I love babies, I have nearly stolen several. But would I want one at my Christmas dinner with my mates? No! I want my friends to get merry and relax, and that's not really likely when they're scanning the room wondering who's got the wean now and if they're ok, sniffing bums to make sure a trip to the ladies isn't required.
Hmm there's maybe an unhelpful implication that those of us who don't want to spend all our time with out babies are not very well bonded or something. So I can understand people feeling a bit defensive about that.
But conversly i wouldn't be making derogatory comments about someone wanting to bring their baby (PFB, etc). One baby at a meal out is no reflection on my parenting, and no skin off my nose.
Unecessary polarisation of views.IMO
God knows I'm not jealous...when I see a Mum with a baby, at some sort of social event, I just think fervently to myself 'Oh thank God that's not me anymore...thank God' [shudder] ...and head to the bar for another vodka &tonic
Livid what planet are you on! Not everyone wants children at an adult only function, where there will probably be pissed people and adult conversation.
Yes the friend does no hae to force her baby to have bottles, she has put her babies needs first good on her but will be restricted for a period of time whist her baby bf
I think that too, but then I like a little cuddle as well. the two aren't mutually exclusive. If the baby is troublesome, the mum is going to be the one troubled
You know the next day when you're all texting remembering the night before, "Haha, do you remember x forgetting her handbag in the taxi?! Pissed as a fart!". Replace handbag with baby.
Not the same, people. Not the same.
There is nothing wrong with being attached to your baby 24/7 if that's what you want.
You just have to realise that you will miss out on something's, like the Christmas party that starts at 8.
There are no restaurants around here that would allow them in that late, probably for a reason.
Jmaie you raise a valid point.
It took a long time for me to bond with DD1 (had PND). But I gradually fell in love with her - and the bond, when it finally came, was fiercely strong.
Certainly strong enough, that I felt confident enough not to have to wear her as some sort of badge 24/7, advertising what an awesome Earth Mother I was...
It's perfectly possible to love and bond strongly with your baby and still retain your own sense of self, and your own (albeit slightly more limited) social life. Millions of women manage it
So have a laugh and get drunk. The baby won't give a flying fuck whether you coo at it or not.
I'm sure there are often adults whose company you would not necessarily be delighted about, whose personal hygiene left a bit to be desired, who barfed all over the place, got way too loud, whose presence and behaviour would be a major distraction, an atmosphere killer, etc., at some Christmas do's -- what is so objectionable about a baby's presence and the possibility of a baby doing that?
I went out very rarely when my DS was young and I would have looked forward to a night free of babies and children and all talk of such things. I wouldn't normally take my DS to a busy restaurant at night. On holiday abroad I have kept him up later than his normal bedtime. Even then, if he cried or was noisy, I would have taken him home. In my book par for the course when they are little. They aren't small for long.
It's up to the mum is question, though it would depend on the Mother and baby as to whether I would still go to a meal.
todays lesson is titled I dont give a fuck if you would be my friend or not. Tomorrows lesson is the same
Nothing to do with any of it but this is my new favourite
Having a baby at someone's house during a get-together, is a very different dynamic/scenario to having the baby out in a busy restaurant at 9pm.
If you want to take your baby to every social event you attend then fair enough. Just don't expect everyone else to like it.
I am one of the very few people I know IRL who openly admits they find babies and toddlers rather dull and tiresome.
I suspect an awful lot of people agree with me, but they're too nice to admit it
TFC..advance search me, baby
You'll probably end up being being my best buddy
I took all my children with me to family get togethers and family meals out. But never in a million years would I have taken them to a christmas do in a restaurant.
Psml at any!
if you want your friend to be able to attend don't make her life more difficult by tut tutting about her little one coming too, when you are bf this is what has to happen and some of us don't ever want our babies to have a bottle when we have our 24hour milkbar!!!
I'll be honest I wouldn't be happy with it restaurants on a Saturday night at this time of year are not places for babies. When I had my 11mo I accepted it meant sacrificing the social life for a while I appreciate that she/you/the group want to see each other but maybe this isn't the best way to do that.
I never would have done it it's potentially unfair on other people and to my mind just not necessary.
Jesus, the poor cow will probably scoff her dinner, stay an hour then go home, can't see how it affects any one else, I really can't! It's not something I would do, as I like to
get pissed relax when I'm out, otherwise what's the point, but I wouldn't mind if it meant a catch up with an old mate, who was a new mum.
Geranium3 I haven't made her life difficult in the slightest.
When the table was booked. I asked said friend who booked it - is friend going and is she bringing x? I was told yes.
And I cringe at the expression "24hr milkbar" it's almost as bad a "mummy milk" <shudders>
We had a Christmas meal where a mum brought her baby AND her DH. It was lunchtime she wanted to go Christmas shopping afterwards (fair enough). Poor baby cried the whole time and her DH was a bit merry
knob. Went down like a fart in a spacesuit.
I wouldn't go for a meal if I knew the same circumstances beforehand. It would be a waste of a babysitter for me and I'd rather go for a child free meal for a works xmas do.
Don't see what it's got to do with you. It will be your friend who's stressed, worried about the baby and about how other people are reacting, who has to go off to the loo to feed and/or deal with people staring, who can't have a drink or eat half of the things on the menu, and who has to leave early. All for the sake of trying to keep up breastfeeding while not becoming a total hermit, especially at Xmas.
Well done for making her feel even more unhappy, unwelcome and resented.
In case it's not clear, YABU.
eccentrica what the hell do you think I have done or said to the woman?
I've literally kept my mouth shut about the entire thing. The only time I mentioned it (as already said) I asked the woman organising it if a) she was coming to the meal and b) is she bringing baby with her.
I've said nothing to her about it. Or to other friends.
So please explain how I have made her feel unhappy, unwelcome and resented? Because I'd love to know.
If it's that difficult for her I'm surprised she's going tbh eccentrica
Dear god eccentric are you always this highly strung and ott?
your friend wants to go to the meal she wants or needs to take her baby some mums would stay home good on her it is a meal not a heavy night on the tiles, yanbu to want your friend to have anice night off yabu to say a meal at night isnt a healthy place for a baby no difference from during the day or early evening.
Why did you invite your friend at all, knowing that her baby doesn't want to take a bottle ( or maybe your friend doesn't want to try again if there is no need?). I just don't understand why wouldn't you just tell her that she is not welcome with the baby, or if you are a coward I suspect you are, just send her a link to this thread.
Oh Sweet Jesus... 24 hour milk-bar ??? [rocks back and forth, whimpering...]
" forbiddenfruit85 what the hell do you think I have done or said to the woman?"
Well, apart from the fact that once you start asking other people whether or not the baby's coming (and what on earth does it have to do with you? it's not your problem, which was the point I was trying to make), it will inevitably get back to her.
These things have a way of getting around. And people's resentment (even when it's inexplicable, as in this case) communicates itself pretty clearly through tone of voice, raised eyebrows, and all the other not-so-subtle signals that you will send off, if you're bothered enough to be bitching about it on here.
You've "kept your mouth shut about the entire thing"? that's hardly a great feat of self-control. I think it's really odd to be so bothered about someone else bringing her baby with her. No-one is asking you to babysit or not to have a drink, it has nothing to do with you.
EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin er no, not being particularly "highly strung and ott", I just think the original question is a particularly mean-spirited one and feel sorry for the "friend" in question.
saintlyjimjams unfortunately I think that can be the reality when you've got a 6-month-old and you're breastfeeding, going out can be pretty stressful but it beats staying in!
this thread has really made me laugh today, thanks OP!
i am still chuckling over donnie todays lesson is titled I dont give a fuck if you would be my friend or not. Tomorrows lesson is the same as today.
I don't understand why your getting a shoeing.
It sounds like an inappropriate night for a baby. Restaurants are bloody carnage at Christmas time.
There would be no way I would actually want to do that. I might call in for a drink.
My friend breastfed exclusively for a year. We had a hen night, she called back at 8 to feed the baby and then just knew she might have to call back.
Up to your mate like but I wouldn't even enjoy myself personally.
hear hear eccentrica, you have put most eloquently what i was trying to express!!!
Think forbidden fruits is just looking for a friday night arguement !
I've taken my kids out around the same age and they just slept. If they had bellowed I would have left. Surely it's worth a punt on her part.
Geranium3 I started this thread on Thursday so no not looking for a Friday night argument.
If it's that stressful I would argue it does not beat staying in. Cup of tea at home would win any time. One of my kids is very difficult to take out and attracts the gawpers and so I stick to taking him out to sensible places. Not adult Christmas meals.
It wouldn't hugely bother me having a baby there (better than a toddler!) but I think the mother is mad. Still don't understand why she can't just feed him then go out. That's what I did with 6 month old babies and eg book group.
Eccentrica - it is her problem as her night will be affected. A baby in a restaurant with a room full of diners who want to have fun and get pissed is unreasonable.
OP has said it's a small place - it'll be noisy. People will be merry / festive etc. there may be people there who've saved for months, arranged a sitter etc - why should they have to share an adult night out with a baby who is unpredictable. Babies puke, cry, whinge, poo etc at inopportune moments - a Christmas night out is for adults, not babies.
I normal cry whinge and puke at Christmas.
peartree that's my usual Friday night antics
Haha pickled - you're allowed, other diners would probably giggle, not suffer in silence to avoid upsetting the parents who inflict their kids on others at inappropriate events (waits for abuse)
I disagree with Eccentrica too.
I don't really see what the op is saying that's bad to be honest.
doublecakeplease I had a work commitment down in Cornwall when my daughter was 2 months old (culmination of a long-term theatre project). I took the baby with me (my partner came too to look after her), and there was a big meal one night in an Indian restaurant for all involved in the project.
We were a bit unsure about going, but everyone was really encouraging and made us feel very welcome - and these were professional rather than personal contacts. The baby spent the entire evening sleeping in her car seat under the table. No puking, crying, whingeing, or puking - if there had been, we'd have left. Big woot!
At about 10ish I thought it was probably enough for her, people were getting pissed and I was tired, so we said our goodbyes and went back to the place we were staying. We'd had a lovely meal, I got to do some networking, most of all I felt like i was still me and could still take part in normal life, and as it turned out, no-one else even noticed her as she was asleep under the table the whole time.
Now she's 2 years old and it's totally out of the question, I look back and just wish I'd done even more going out when it was still possible!
Evenings in restaurants the weekend before Christmas are going to be rammed, absolutely packed with adults having meals. Most places don't allow children in after a certain time anyway, and for good reason - the place will be full of adults and alcohol.
Anyone taking their baby out socialising on a night out is being frankly ridiculous, and smacks of thinking only of themselves.
Stuff the other people in the place who have paid babysitters to look after their children, stuff what's best for baby (as in a proper bedtime and cosy bed as opposed to a night out with mum.)
If you have children,I'd have thought it was pretty obvious that you either leave them at home for a night out, or don't go. Not go on your night out and bring them out with you.
No pickled (hia!!) I don't think she's out of order, I just don't think it will affect her as much as she may think, the friend in question will not stay long, I'd put money on it, and if she's a friend, is an hour or so a lot to ask? I personally, wouldn't go out with any children, cos it's easier to just stay in, but if you really want to go, or really want to see your mate, is it that big a deal?
It's Not a night out!! it's 8 o'clock ffs, she will prob be home in bed by 9.30!? And a restaurant, not a club, they wouldn't let kids in if it was Pasha!!
Eccentrica - you've not convinced me and quite frankly 'bully for you'. I'm not your accepting work colleague and wouldn't want a baby anywhere near my xmas night out so I'll base my opinions and comments on that. Your colleagues may have been accepting but what about others in the restaurant?
Depends on the friend.
Seriously I don't think it's much to ask to have an adult only night out once in a while.
It's Not a night out!! it's 8 o'clock ffs, she will prob be home in bed by 9.30!? And a restaurant, not a club, they wouldn't let kids in if it was Pasha!!
So what if it's not a nightclub? It's still taking your baby on a friends night out with you. Whether it's Pasha or a restaurant, the weekend before Christmas anywhere in town is going to be heaving and full of people full of drink.
OP said it's going on until 10pm. Call me old fashioned, but to my mind babies belong tucked up in bed at that time.
Not dragged round restaurants with mum's mates.
well, we are more laid back down here in cornwall eccentrica, come back soon with your dd!
Hope OP's so called friend isn't reading this, the poor woman will be cancelling if she is, maybe this is her first time out socially in the evening since before the baby so perhaps try and show a little kindness and compassion, this discussion would never get past the !stpage in a country like spain, so stop being so unseasonable, sit at the other end of the table and bet you won't even be aware of the baby and maybe after a drink or two OP, you will be cooing over the baby!!!
doublecakeplease "Your colleagues may have been accepting but what about others in the restaurant?"
I find it difficult to imagine how they could have been in any way disturbed by a baby fast asleep, in a car seat, under the table. Unless they were crawling around under there themselves (shoe fetishists perhaps) there's no way they could even have known she was there.
Anything from babies to mobile phones to being pissed can potentially disturb others,as long as you're aware and considerate of others what's the problem? I'd be a lot more bothered by some drunken tosser on an office xmas bash falling over, being sick, or groping people on his way to the bar.
The OP is talking about a meal in a restaurant from 8-10pm. Hardly a crazy night out is it?
LOL @ AlienRefucksLooksLikeSnow - 'Pasha'
It's called Pacha duck
Eccentrica - a voice of reason on this thread.
I don't know what type of restaurant posters here frequent - the evening is to take place in a restaurant not a night club or a Victorian gin palace. Carnage? Really?
It's likely to be more raucous than the work thing in an Indian. And there is a bigger difference in a 2 month old who is waaaaaay more likely to sleep.
And it's not that scarey weekend before Christmas where people like to get hammered and fall over.
And it's not unreasonable to want an adult night out once in a while. If you brought your baby to a work schmooze wouldn't bother me.
Geranium3 it's not her first night out since having the baby.
sit at the other end of the table and bet you won't even be aware of the baby and maybe after a drink or two OP, you will be cooing over the baby!!!
If I'm on a (rare) night out though, I don't WANT to be cooing over a baby! If I'm there it means my two small children are having an overnight stay at their grandparents, and I'm wanting adult time
drinking my way through the wine list and cocktail menu
Sorry I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if I am repeating what others have said. The baby is 6 months' old, not a newborn, and it definitely does change the dynamics of an evening out when there's a baby there. A few months' ago I went on a girls' meal out and one of my friends brought her 6 month old with her as she was sure he'd just sleep in his buggy. He didn't sleep at all and we spent the whole meal having to pass him round the table to stop him grumbling. It was a rare night off away from my own children, and I didn't enjoy having to entertain a baby for the evening. At 6 months, why can't she feed the baby and put him to bed, go out for the meal and feed him if necessary when she gets home. They don't need feeding through the evening at 6 months.
Bfed 2 month old I'd understand, but 6 months is different. Easier to leave feeding wise and more likely to be awake
dippy, bf fed babies often do need alot of feeding!!!
Also Xmas meal is different IMO - usually far more drunken than average night out ime
Still think the mother is insane.
Dippy He didn't sleep at all and we spent the whole meal having to pass him round the table to stop him grumbling. It was a rare night off away from my own children, and I didn't enjoy having to entertain a baby for the evening.
This. I get the occasional night away from my two for a night out, and as much as I love them and babies too, I'd be pissed off if we had to entertain and coo over babies as they were grumbling.
Yes, and why will he have been grumbling? Because the poor little sod will have been tired/over stimulated from all the noise and babble and wishing he was in bed!
It's the week before xmas - blackeye Friday. Unless it's a Michelin Star type of place it'll be 'festive'. if a parent is so convinced that baby will just sleep in the car seat then he / she can be left at home with a sitter
Geranium - I bf both mine and maybe I was lucky, but they would have been in bed at 7 and I would have been pretty confident I could go on an evening out without needing to feed them (certainly by 6 months - not at the newborn stage)
I'm very firmly in the "person with the baby should either feed him, leave him with the father and come out or stay at home" camp. A night out is about trying to relax - and having a baby of that age there is neither necessary nor desirable for anyone.
A six month old should surely be able to go 3 hours without a feed (even if the last 15 minutes includes some floorwalking by her DP/H).
I have read all this thread and can't believe some of the comments
But soontobe (sorry can't type the whole of your name as I have an aversion to that word) has pretty much summed up everything I was wanting to say.
Some of the joke posts on here - "An invitation for one means an invitation for the other. Friends need to deal with that." I mean, what the acutal fuck is that about. And that anyone objecting is jealous - have made me laugh.
I breast fed, I altered my social calendar for that time. I like a good night out, I would be totally hacked off if one of my friends brought their 6 month old along. Really, not everyone wants to "coo" and "fuss over" a baby. Some of us are not interested. And no - lol - we're not "jelus hatahs" FFS
I have been in loads of busy restaurants late at night and never, ever in my 40+ years have I seen a baby there. Most of our pubs/restaurants turf them out at 7pm
OP you are getting a right roasting off some, but I totally agree with everything you have sais
* so angry my spelling has left me. I meant "said"
I think your friend is being a bit U to bring a 6mo to an evening meal that isn't a family meal. TBH I can't think of anything more stressful.
I personally would be really annoyed if a friend bought a baby to a non-family meal, especially if they insisted we all entertain a grumpy baby. The only way I would be okay about it if the baby was quiet or slept or if the parent took them home if they were grumpy. I wouldn't mind BFing at the table, just the distraction of an unhappy baby. It all hinges on your friend and how disruptive the baby might be.
Family meals are a bit different and I know we've had to take DD to quite posh meals because it's expected that the whole family are there, despite DD being tiny and me not being very experienced BFing. In fact I sat on the sofa in the hotel lounge area to BF so we weren't disturbing everyone else eating and the waitress bought my dessert out to me.
Sadly, as a parent, you can't always do everything you want to do. That sometimes means missing out on events, for all sorts of reasons, as you can't always bring your kids with you.
I wouldn't say anything to the friend though as I'm a bit chicken about that sort of thing.
PMSL at '24 hour milkbar'.
Breast fed babies do not need to be fed every 5 minutes. This baby is 6 months old not a newborn. There wouldn't be any physical problem at all leaving a baby of this age for 2-3 hours. If she doesn't want to leave it, that is different but the baby will not starve if she chooses to. Yes, before you ask, I have breast fed 4 DC past the 6 month stage.
OP- I agree with you that a sit down evening work Christmas meal is not an appropriate event to bring a baby to.
Sadly, as a parent, you can't always do everything you want to do. That sometimes means missing out on events, for all sorts of reasons, as you can't always bring your kids with you. Totally agree.
If I were your friend, I would have emailed that I wouldn't be able to make the evening event, but I would be available on ABC days for lunch if anybody wanted to meet up. Or you can all come to mine on XYZ nights for wine and nibbles. Nipples.
I would not want to take my baby on a boozy night out, however much I wanted to see my friends.
A pre Christmas night out in any restaurant, anywhere, will consist of office parties, girls* nights out, lads* nights out, drunkenness, crackers, and party poppers.
And loads and loads of alcohol.
And it'll be busy, busy busy and really really noisy.
It is so not the time or place for a baby.
*apologies for the girls/lads comments, we are clearly women and men
Haven't read all the posts but I regularly tool my breast fed babies out with friends at that age. Luckily my good friends didn't have an issue with this at all! As they are not complete cows....
OMG how selfish are you and why do you even care is it going to ruin your night a little tiny cute 6mo being there????
There are nights out with close friends and then Christmas night out with work between 8/10pm at a busy restaurant.
You think someone is a complete cow because they want to enjoy an annual night out with work without kids .
OMG how selfish are you
You could turn that round and say it's selfish to expect a baby to be happy on a night out when he has every right to be tucked up in bed and not carted round town with his selfish mum.
scarlettsmummy2 luckily your friends didn't have an issue?
Outwardly yes they didn't have an issue. But I'm sure when they found out you'd brought the baby yet again there would be many forced smile all around and lots of eye rolling.
I to pretend that I don't have an issue with it, when I obviously do.
And the fact that your name is scarlettsmummy makes me absolutely cringe. Do you not have an identity? Obviously not.
The beauty of bfing is that you can shut a baby up/put them to sleep in a milisecond.
I have taken ds (almost 6 months) all over the place, including shows and concerts in the run up to christmas. He didn't spoil anything for anyone. In fact, many people have been surprised when they discover him.
I could not leave him for the majority of things I have attended recently. I don't WANT him to drink for a bottle as this has health implications for his oral development.
He is in his 4th trimester. Dependent on me. A part of me.
Shame on anyone who wants to seperate us or put conditions on my movements that involve our seperation.
Selfish to want a child free evening? I don't think so.
Selfish to think a busy, noisy environment, late at night, with drunk people isn't the place for a 6mo? I don't think so.
Get a grip.
God I've read some ridiculous shite on mumsnet but this thread us really beginning to take the biscuit.
StarOfLightMcKings3 feeding a baby through any method does not mean it will 'shut up' and 'sleep in a millisecond'
"Shame on anyone who wants to seperate us or put conditions on my movements that involve our seperation"
I feel sorry for your future daughter in law.
Maybe people looked at you if you are saying you took your babies regularly on nights out thinking you were a bit of a selfish cow and they should be tucked up in bed not in a noisy restaurant at 10pm!
You go girl, forbiddenfruit
yes, sympathy to the future DIL, because she will sill be wearing her baby and breastfeeding on demand when her son is an adult. After all, children's needs don't change as they get older, do they?
Oh good grief if you want to go on a jolly on Black Friday it's your decision no one is forcing you to go.
There is more bloody melodrama on here than emmerdale.
Oh, and if I was having a Christmas night out this year , I apologise in advance for falling over your baby with my cracker hat on to get outside for a fag.
While loudly singing Slade.
lady can I come out with you?
forbidden, my future daughter-in-law will not be making an appearance whilst my baby is still soley dependent on me.
MY bf baby is rarely noticed. He is not passed around. He is attached to me during the evening and night but he feeds approximately every 40mins.
I actually left him tonight to attend an evening thing. I was only away for an hour and a half before I was called back because the tommee tippee cup that I had taken me 2 days to express was finished and he was still hungry/thirsty, so I came home only just the starter.
It was an experiment. I know now that the next meal I will have to have him with me.
You don't have to have him with you at a meal. Stay at home, until you learn how to detach yourself.
Let people enjoy their dinner.
What a vile comment. If your enjoyment of your dinner is affected by a small inconspicuous baby being present, who is soley dependent on his mother and that no-one else notices, then I would suggest that it is YOU who should avoid restaurants until you learn how to overcome your predjudices.
OMG how selfish are you and why do you even care is it going to ruin your night a little tiny cute 6mo being there????
Haha, so someone is selfish because they worry their night out may be spoiled? Thats good one, I dont get out much so if I was going on a proper Christmas night out of course I would care! And 6 month olds arent tiny either - they generally are big and noisy.
Its an adult meal out for Christmas, not a party at soft play.
Agree and also grumpy at that time of night.
We're singing Fairy tale of New York now, Moomins and forbiddenfruits.
I'm feeling a bit wobbly.
My baby has not learned about day and night yet. He is hungry when he is hungry and always settled due to being bf on demand. He isn't old enough to DO anything but breastmilk always sends him into a coma even if not asking for it.
He is too young for a soft play. My body is growing him. My body that needs food, and socialising and friendships and a relaxing meal.
FFS calm down StarOfLightMcKings3 - we get it, you like feeding your baby!
Op, I was in your situation last year. Friend bought baby with her, he whined/ screamed throughout meal. She couldn't feed / we couldn't eat, everyone hated us, it was simply awful! We're not having a meet up meal this year. Offered to rearrange times to more suitable to suit her (only one wanted to bring child) last year, she was insistent baby would come / be fine whenever so didn't bother her / him.
Christmas evenings in restaurants really not time for babies.
Right right star take your Star Mummy martyr award and move on
Actually, I don't much like feeding my baby but he must be fed. MY needs have not changed much though since becoming a mother and there is no reason except prejudice why I can't carry on as normal wit him in tow.
If and when he causes a nuisance to others in more ways than simply existing in the same room then I'll balance up the needs of all at that time, but don't expect me to factor in preciousness.
my body is growing him
I just sicked in my mouth.
:: evangelical breastfeeder alert ::
don't expect me to factor in preciousness HAHA! I think you are the most precious poster on this thread!
poor poor Mummy martyr
Actually I think having a child means some sacrifices have to be made, maybe not taking them to noisy restaurants at 8pm is one of them.
My body grew a baby too.
He's 17 now, of to university next year, and I still managed to have adult time when he was 6 months and onwards.
Sorry StarofLight, but you do sound a little bit precious.
Oh dear some of t comments are testing a little too erm silly
Meant getting, silly auto correct
The group have a right to a child free evening,contrary to belief 6 month babies can be noisy ad whining especially if teething, or overtired as they can't get the sleep tey need due to noisy busy environment
I want to go out with Ladybeagle - race you to the dance floor
I wouldn't say anything to a friend who bought their baby to a Christmas night out but I would be thinking FFS.
In RL all my friends would have remarked, thank fuck a no kids night out, whilst we were planning what we were wearing, who was picking who up, what time were we getting to the bar, where were we all going afterwards and who had to keep an eye on who.
'And the fact that your name is scarlettsmummy makes me absolutely cringe. Do you not have an identity? Obviously not. '
'my body is growing him
I just sicked in my mouth. '
You are an incredibly unpleasant person, ForbiddenFruit.
BTW to those of you bleating about work Xmas dos and unsuitability for babies - I don't think it was ever established that this is a work party.
Would also like to add that it is incredibly British to be so resentful of someone who is breaking the rules by not hiring a babysitter for her baby as everyone else has felt obliged to do.
Math yes it's not a work night out but an ADULTS only night out, and op and the rest of her friends have every right to not want a screaming Whiney baby there. Yes the op friend is bf and she does not want to put her ds on a bottle, she has every right, but that means that she will not be able to attend adult only events for the time she is bf.
Therefore the friends could arrange to meet up in the day for lunch, what's wrong with that!
It's ate in the evening 8-10pm the last thing a baby will want is a noisy environment as they will want to sleep. I know my baby ds wouldn't be able to sleep in such an environment and would be overtired, screaming, in fact if I was tired that. Is the last place I would rather be
Glad that your not my friend.
Are you worried she will get more attention?
Wth it's getting silly, op wants to organise an adult only night and she is bein shat on for a great height. She did come across as not very good but some of the comments against her are just as awful and personal. What if she had organised clubbing night would it be acceptable to bring your baby then! If the meal is in a pub she might not be allowed to bring her baby due to pub licence etc
I personally would not have an issue, but would want baby to be taken home if he became Whiney, screaming
I must be a complete cow!
Star - I'm sorry but all of your comments have made me cringe. you must have incredible dedication and patience to have your baby attached to you - but if I'm honest it all sounds a little ott.
My name is doublecakeplease and I'm an adult time addict.
A mummy martyr IMO is someone who leaves her vulnerable and dependent and generally inconspicuous baby at home to somehow prove her superior parenting skills and pander to the judginess of others.
My baby is securely attached. He does not fuss or whinge and his ebf do not yet smell. He was on the inside and Now he's on the outside. He does Not have enough social awareness to necessitate adults modifying their behaviour in his presence. it is like saying no pregnant women allowed.
Totally wrong star, a pregnant woman can go to a club/bar do you rethink it's appropriate to take your now born baby! Your baby is now a separate entity from you even if he is being bf and sorry adults only evenings are just that! Not everyone loves your baby as much as you and would want him there. I personally don't mind but I am defending those like op that do
I'm committed to feeding my baby yes, but evangelical about bfing - no. I don't give a shit what others do, except if it gives them a chip on the shoulder that makes them nasty towards out bfing.
I have never posted before, just a lurker.
BUT I gotta say Star you have me in hysterics. Either you're the most brilliant troll of all time or your kid needs some fruit loops with his '24 hour milk bar.'
Yes of course it's a mum right to bf and not try baby on bottle like op friend, as a result they are restricted for a certain period whist they are bf, if fiends are going clubbing or to bars the mum cannot come and bring baby with. But to many tats not important and can wait until later
It's nothing like saying a pregnant woman can't attend - how ridiculous! You and I will never agree, I think you seem slightly obsessive over your child.
Babies are not inconspicuous at all. even one asleep under the table would grate on my nerves a little as it would still make me edit my behaviour - I'd be quieter / aware of myself and others getting too tipsy etc and at the risk of sounding spoilt that's not fair!
A club/bar is a dangerous place for a baby.
Star this is not anti bf but a debate about bringing any babies/children whether breastfed or bottlefed on adult nights out
If you edit your behaviour that's really your own insecurities tbh. There is no need, and it isn't done in many countries abroad. You are not being observed in any meaningful way and your need to be quiet stems from your own predjudices. Babies don't need quiet. The womb is a bloody noisy place.
Your friend probably feels that she has a choice between bringing her baby, hoping that he'll sleep and having a nice evening or leaving him at home, on edge worrying about how he is and expecting a phone call about 8.30pm saying that he won't settle.
Just because there are other people around to look after the baby doesn't mean that the baby will settle with them or that they won't get on the phone at the first whimper.
I don't know a lot about bottlefed babies but it seems a lot here don't know much about breastfed babies.
So, potentially is a restaurant on what is traditionally a festive, merry night of the year - busy waiters carrying hot food, drunk people stumbling around, drinks being spilt etc - not baby friendly at all!
I'm glad that I have friends who are complete cows too. I'm going out for a Christmas meal next sat - can't wait for some baby free fun!
Well my ds would be screaming the place down trying to sleep in that time, not all babies are going to be quiet and sleeping, add to that tweeting as at 6 months ds was teething and grizzly, not a pleasant night out at all
Meant teething not tweeting
I do staroflight, I bf for nearly 6 years.
Whilst I wouldn't object to someone else taking their 6 month old out for an adult meal, I wouldn't have done it with either of mine. By 6 months the noise etc would have kept them awake and they were both having their last feed (until 2am or so) at 7pm.
But babies are different. OP's friend is the best judge of her baby's needs and if that means taking him and having to go home early because he is unsettled, then that's part of the learning curve of parenthood imvho.
Given that there is no law to protect babies from a Christmas meal in a restaurant i'd say the safety of the baby is fairly easily taken care of by his mother and none of anyone else's business.
Piglet if you have judged that your baby will be whingy and miserable then it is probably sensible for you to stay at home if he can't be left. If the opposite is true then it is totally unnecessary. You can't however have a preconceived idea about how someone else's baby will be.
6 months is a funny age IMO as it's on the cusp of being more independent nutritionally and mobile-wise. I would probably therefore not want to take my 7 month old to such a thing. Woukd the OP mind a 5 month old?
I know my bf babies and I know my friends bf babies. Not that it makes the slightest difference how they were fed, none of them would have slept through a meal in a noisy restaurant at 6 months old.
Mine wouldn't have slept either. Never does at that time of night. But he would have fed.