...to kick up a fuss because DS (7) was confronted with (soft) porn on school's iPad?

(99 Posts)
allrightluv Wed 05-Dec-12 19:13:26

DS is 7. He and a friend were using the school's new iPads in class. His friend googled some explicit words and, hey presto, they stumbled across some soft porn... Luckily only breasts, butts but no genitalia. But still: This should't happen at school!!! Can't decide how enraged I should be about this...

Very, definitely contact them, they need to know.

GreatUncleEddie Wed 05-Dec-12 19:15:22

Well they got what they asked google for, didn't they. I don't expect they were supposed to be messing around like that. Did they see anything worse than you would in a M and S advert?

mmmm. Would have to know more about the words googled and the websites that came up before I could get very enraged. Were you in class with him? Did you see the websites?

Hesterton Wed 05-Dec-12 19:15:56

Save your rage for your son mesing around with rude words in class (or the mate if your son REALLy had nothing to do with it at all).

How can a school shut out every bare tit shot? Google breast feeding and you'll find them.

FlojoHoHoHo Wed 05-Dec-12 19:16:31

How did u find out about it? Are school aware of it?

squeakytoy Wed 05-Dec-12 19:16:36

There are perfume and shower gel adverts on the high street that show the naked body.. I wouldnt bother being enraged really unless it was actually porn.

AllSnowballsAndNoKnickers Wed 05-Dec-12 19:17:08

Yeah - go in and give the school hell. Never mind your precious darling - obviously don't tell him off at all!

ShatnersBassoon Wed 05-Dec-12 19:17:18

How did the teacher describe it to you?

FlojoHoHoHo Wed 05-Dec-12 19:17:19

Google 'images' isn't blocked.

littlewhitebag Wed 05-Dec-12 19:17:44

Councils usually bar searches using rude words on the computer and won't display any results. You need to ask the school about this. They should not be able to search using rude words.

hillyhilly Wed 05-Dec-12 19:17:46

You should be speaking to your son rather than school

nokidshere Wed 05-Dec-12 19:17:59

Just mention it to the teacher so she is aware and can double check the security.

There is no point getting het up over it as its something that isn't always as controlable as we might like.

I have lots of parental security on my pc's and tablets. More so than most because I am a childminder and the children use the equipment.

Imagine my horror when a child (luckily my own) googled "russian birds" for a birdwatching list he was compiling!!! The resultant pictures made me blush and some very hasty explanations to a 7 year old!!!

Glup Wed 05-Dec-12 19:18:46

Hah! Welcome to the world. Kids laugh at school filter systems. Love that they can get through them that easily at 7 years old!

Use it as an opportunity to discuss appropriate use of the internet. The school can do very little about it, apart from ignore the internet altogether!

Informing the teacher and letting her use it as an opportunity to lecture the class would also probably be a good idea.

And, erm, let's hope somebody cracks this massive gap in the market soon. I would pay quite a lot of money for filter system that could properly block porn, and I suspect a lot of people would feel the same.

I would contact them, but not with rage but as a delicate heads-up.

As soon as we got a dictionary at school, we were on the penis page. This is very different of course, but this is the modern age sad

I would think they have closed settings on - I mean they must do, surely! - so the pics couldn't have been too bad.

hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman Wed 05-Dec-12 19:19:29

The internet filters were set so high at the school I used to work in that we couldn't even google 'Essex' or 'Sussex' without the search being blocked. Yes, raise it with the school but not as a complaint.

Bogeyface Wed 05-Dec-12 19:20:07

Try teaching your son about what is and is not acceptable to look at on the internet instead of having a go at the school.

CajaDeLaMemoria Wed 05-Dec-12 19:20:13

Tell them because they need to know that their child software isn't working correctly.

Mention what your son saw. But you don't need to be outraged. Just explain that he googled ....., and saw adult image results. Nothing else needs to be said, really, because it goes without saying that we don't really want kids accessing that type of thing.

I've always found calm and rational gets better results with schools!

treas Wed 05-Dec-12 19:20:36

No it shouldn't have happened but then they shouldn't have been googling explicit words, I know it was your ds's friend but then your ds didn't stop him.

Advise the school of the situation and advise that they need to improve their internet filters.

Mind you my ds new more than the teachers and was able to by pass the filters if he wished - although he didn't as he's not ready for looking at women's bits - yet!

HenriettaTurkey Wed 05-Dec-12 19:21:41

It's very likely the school will have a firewall that blocks adult sites etc as well as other sites such as fb, twitter, YouTube. Usually it'll be the local authority that sets this up.

Unfortunately I know from experience in IT lessons, that sometimes inappropriate images get through the net.

I'd check with school that these settings are in place, and that the students were monitored so that they weren't browsing on inappropriate pages for too long.

And I'd tell your kid not to mess about in class!

44SoStartingOver Wed 05-Dec-12 19:22:27

Am pretty sure school will be concerned at limitation of their own controls. They will want to take action.

Your ds is being a rascal and obviously needs to learn about web safety too.

Does the school do any talks? Ours did a brilliant one, attended by all of four parents.

allrightluv Wed 05-Dec-12 19:22:44

Well, he told me, kind of nonchalant, and I looked up the words he and his friend googled, and it fit the description of what DS said they saw... Yes, it's not really worse than what you see on evening telly but still, a school computer should have some kind of filters/child care settings in place and one of the words used shouldn't definitely not have passed them... (They didn't look up "breast feeding")

noblegiraffe Wed 05-Dec-12 19:23:59

If a kid at my school googled explicit words they'd have their Internet access revoked.

School Internet access tends to be filtered through an area Grid for Learning network, which takes care of most dodgy content but sometimes some slips through. The ICT coordinator needs to be informed so that whatever site it was that came up can be added to to the filter list.

One of my Y9s mistyped in the URL of a maths website the other day and got offered hot sluts in his area...while I was stood behind him! He was utterly horrified! These things, with the best will in the world, can happen if kids don't follow instructions carefully.

Hesterton Wed 05-Dec-12 19:24:56

So he did google them with his friend. Surely you have taught him not to do that?

Skivvytomany Wed 05-Dec-12 19:25:20

This just reminded of when my daughter was about seven or eight and wondered how to tell the difference between male and female dogs. I'm 101% sure that she will never google 'dog sex' again. shock

freddiefrog Wed 05-Dec-12 19:26:43

I'd mention it to school, just as a heads up that maybe their security needs tightening.

My eldest DD and her friend did the same thing at school last year, they did get some rather rude images up so I warned school in case any one else did it after she'd had the bollocking of her life

KittyFane1 Wed 05-Dec-12 19:27:29

His friend googled some explicit words
So after you have read the riot act to your DS for messing about on the iPad when they he and his friend should have been working, ask the teacher about levels of internet security at school.
Explain that your child and his friend were messing about, that you are disgusted with them both but that they easily gained access to what should be a restricted site/image.

squeakytoy Wed 05-Dec-12 19:28:09

I expect it is difficult to decide what is and isnt allowed..when setting the filters, so that innocent images can still be found.

Kids are very adept at getting around filters anyway.

HyvaPaiva Wed 05-Dec-12 19:29:45

'Confronted with', no. Searched for, yes.

Your focus shouldn't be on the school but on reminding your DS about appropriate behaviour.

3b1g Wed 05-Dec-12 19:29:49

Whether or not you say anything to the school, this is definitely an opportunity to have the 'be careful what you Google' talk with your son.

At DS1's (secondary) school, any searches like this get flagged up by the IT dpt (my friend works there and he did explain how, but it went in one ear and out the other) and there are repercussions for the child who did the search.

bradyismyfavouritewiseman Wed 05-Dec-12 19:31:15

Sounds like the filters maybe haven't been set correctly or some smart arse has managed to undo them.

I would mention it to the school so that do the settings correctly and give your ds a talking to.

LucieMay Wed 05-Dec-12 19:31:36

What words did they google?

Floggingmolly Wed 05-Dec-12 19:33:20

You said it yourself- This shouldn't happen at school!
So have a word with your son.

Floggingmolly Wed 05-Dec-12 19:34:06

He was only "confronted" with the images because he googled them!

allrightluv Wed 05-Dec-12 19:37:29

One of the words was "nude" - if the settings had been right, that should have been blocked. DS knows what not to do on the internet and has never attempted anything of the sort himself. I'm not blaming his friend, but come on, how hard is it for a kid not to tag along? In all honesty, who would have actually stopped their friend? I certainly would't have when I was a child!

allrightluv Wed 05-Dec-12 19:38:06

or "naked", can't remember.

TheNebulousBoojum Wed 05-Dec-12 19:40:03

The LEA needs to upgrade its filters then, Google Images is blocked on the children's logins in my school, the filters are over zealous in some situations.
If he has a personal login, the school can trace exactly what he googled and why the site was allowed, then they can block it.
They can also remove his access to the internet until he learns how to be responsible.

seriously, it's the human body. Unless it was videos of actual porn, pictures of boob's or bum's aren't exactly thing's to flip out about.

teaguzzler Wed 05-Dec-12 19:40:40

I used to teach in a school which had a policy of using no filters at all. While I think this is a bit too liberal i agree with the sentiment. Children need to understand that there is inappropriate content on the internet and what to do if they come across something that makes them uncomfortable. They are unlikely to be able to do this if we over protect them and filters are never going to be able to block all unsuitable content. As children should always be supervised at home and at school on the internet the risk of harm is negligible. Use this as an opportunity to educate your son about internet use and of course concentrating in classsmile

HenriettaTurkey Wed 05-Dec-12 19:40:48

Naked is blocked at our work.

...not that I've tried accessing the lovely Naked Wines website or anything! blush

Unless it's Wines that is blocked. Hmm.

WilsonFrickett Wed 05-Dec-12 19:44:30

Tea that's a very interesting approach actually, I think I approve.

OP you should mention this to school of course. But you should not be enraged, no.

BlackholesAndRevelations Wed 05-Dec-12 19:44:38

Google images is blocked at my school.

WilsonFrickett Wed 05-Dec-12 19:45:21

Also the naked body isn't porn. It's just a naked body.

I would be more concerned my 7yo was googling explicit words tbh.

TheNebulousBoojum Wed 05-Dec-12 19:47:24

I tried googling winter saints for information on St Nicolas, Lucy, Thomas etc.
Came up as Blocked Cult Occult.
Can't google and access anything vaguely rude, and Russian birds will only give you the feathered variety.

LynetteScavo Wed 05-Dec-12 19:51:58

DSs friend managed to override the school filters by goggling "naked Granny" during lunch club at Junior school. DS saw the result - it was not pretty.

You need to flag this up with the school. If they school know it happened they should have contacted you. I have been told in my LA, someone somewhere monitors all use on schools computers, and would know exactly who logged on and googled what.

teaguzzler Wed 05-Dec-12 19:53:07

I just think if we remove all risk from our children's lives we are depriving them of the opportunity to learn to manage it for themselves

mamij Wed 05-Dec-12 19:54:24

I wouldn't kick up a fuss at the school. However, you would need to tell DC what's appropriate and what isn't. Also, mention it to his friend's mum.

You probably need to mention it to the school to check their filters.

Pandemoniaa Wed 05-Dec-12 19:57:16

He was only "confronted" by what he was looking for, wasn't he? By all means have a word with the school to let them know how readily your ds found the undoubtedly inappropriate content but don't make a huge fuss. After all, I'm sure his teacher hadn't instructed them to Google up what they discovered.

Pozzled Wed 05-Dec-12 20:01:46

I would definitely talk to the school, I would expect them to check their filters and reinforce the 'appropriate internet use' message- with the threat of removing internet access if necessary.

I'd also be giving my DC a very stern talk if one of mine did that- or went along with it.

BendyBobsBrusselsSprouts Wed 05-Dec-12 20:15:28

I was posting something the other day and couldn't remember the correct spelling for bizarre and bazaar. I can never remember which one is right.

Anyway all I can say is don't google bizarre bazaar like I didshock because there is it seems a site that covers porn based bizarreness.

noblegiraffe Wed 05-Dec-12 20:23:19

teaguzzler at secondary, the filters are not usually to stop kids accidentally seeing inappropriate content that they would be uncomfortable with, but to stop them searching it out!

I spent most of my IT lessons at school unblocking blocked websites. its impossible to block websites, there is always a website via Google that can unblock them.

Startail Wed 05-Dec-12 20:37:34

If a teacher wants to play a Utube video, they ask the pupils.

Far quicker than using the official route past the safe guarding programes.

showmethetoys Wed 05-Dec-12 20:39:18

Last year my year 4 class were finishing off some work, and one of them asked for a picture of a Celt to copy. I briefly paused before searching, but then decided that the word 'Celt' couldnt possibly bring up anything rude - at least not on the first page in a school with the filters etc. So I made the rookie mistake of google imaging the word with the interactive whiteboard on.

The third picture to come up was a topless woman.

I was mortified and was really worried that the kids would go home and tell their parents I was showing them topless photos, but nothing came of it! But it goes to show that stuff will get through the filter, so it is no surprise that when the boys googled 'nude' or 'naked' they were met with some, well, naked pictures!

To be honest I would be more 'enraged' with your child for taking part in the rude googling.

StuntGirl Wed 05-Dec-12 20:46:11

While I think the school needs to check their security settings I think you need to stop trying to shift the blame entirely on the school.

Your son did this. He 'tagged along" with his friend. He did not try to stop his friend. He even 'nonchalantly' told you about it later. And you neither reprimanded him nor explained why it was wrong? Have a word with yourself.

You should try being enraged with your son as much as the school. He will not learn appropriate boundaries and behaviour unless you teach him.

3b1g Wed 05-Dec-12 20:49:49

showmethetoys: google images can be a minefield, even with 'innocent' words. I have learned from experience that including the word 'homework' tends to filter out the worst offenders!

teaguzzler Wed 05-Dec-12 21:13:14

Ah yes of course noble. Can you tell i'm a ks1 teacher!

3b1g Wed 05-Dec-12 21:26:22

Or alternatively see if Woodlands Junior School has already prepared something! They are great for homework research and it's all pre-filtered. smile

Feenie Wed 05-Dec-12 21:31:08

My Y5s googled 'nice biscuits' and found some pictures of ladies showing their..er..nice biscuits. Was confused describing that one down the phone to our network.

3b1g Wed 05-Dec-12 21:36:24

DH used to be a Beaver leader. Our local Beavers colony was doing a joint activity with a colony in Bushey and DH needed to find out the contact details. I think you can see where this is going.

ghoulelocks Wed 05-Dec-12 21:38:13

Nearly exactly the same thing happened in our school, and we were glad to be told by a parent. We discovered that the internet filter was faulty on certain machines after changing providers, also we changed how we taught internet safety as we were horrified 6 children were aware and none reported it until it came back to us days later through a sibling then Dad.

I wouldn't be enraged but I would praise your son for telling you about it and stress to school it was the right thing to do, as if he then actually sees something far worse online in the future that frightens him or he can't deal with he will know he can tell you and you will help him, rather than freak out.

EndoplasmicReticulum Wed 05-Dec-12 21:38:37

I nearly googled "blue tit" in class once to find a picture, we were doing food chains and a student didn't know that it was a bird.

Stopped myself just in time.

Feenie Wed 05-Dec-12 21:39:56

Ha, yes, I can, 3b1g!

Two of my Y5 girls wanted to find a beaver sound effect for their river presentation.

They were not granted permission to google that one.

EndoplasmicReticulum Wed 05-Dec-12 21:42:29

Actually, just tried that now and I did just get birds. So would have been OK! My school filter does sometimes make Biology lessons a bit difficult, anyway.

Bogeyface Wed 05-Dec-12 21:51:26

Oh and "his friend" hmm Really?

My son swore blind it was his friend that had googled inappropriate things when in year 7, but they both got their internet access revoked, which they only do if they can prove who it was. Stupid sod forgot that they can tell who is logged on and what they are accessing. He had tried to say that his mate had logged under his name, until they showed him proof that they had both been logged in on adjacent computers at exactly the same time!

So before you steam in all guns blazing, you need to be 100% that other child isnt saying it was your son. In all probability, it was both of them saying "lets look for......"

You seem to be determined that it is the other child or the schools fault, anyones fault but your son's and by extension yours for not teaching him about what is ok and what isnt on the internet.

LynetteScavo Wed 05-Dec-12 22:11:58

It doesn't matter if it was the OP's DS, his friends, or some random 7yo. The fact is 7yo's are little and silly, and will do silly things such as Google things they think are rude, sometimes with not good consequences which they wouldn't have foreseen, because they are silly and little.

You wouldn't expect someone in loco parentis let them roam around a busy junction, and then, when they are knocked over by a car say "Well, they should know better than to run across the road." (Or maybe some posters who have commented on this thread would!) Which is why schools have filters in place, and while kicking up a fuss won't achieve much, quietly mentioning it will alert the school to what has happened.

But lots of things will get through filters, "Prince Albert" being a classic.

BoneyBackJefferson Wed 05-Dec-12 22:12:24

In the last couple of years I have had blocked 30 - 40 websites, (mostly games), then the pupils discovered proxy servers.

The battle is ongoing but TBH I would prefer to spend my time teaching than blocking websites that the children will find a way on to if they want to.

LynetteScavo Wed 05-Dec-12 22:13:00

There's a big difference between a 7yo and a Y7 DS.

Bogeyface Wed 05-Dec-12 22:23:52

There's a big difference between a 7yo and a Y7 DS

Not when it comes to trying to get out of trouble there isnt!

"X did it" is the default position for every child in the world, and quite alot of adults too!

3b1g Wed 05-Dec-12 22:24:57

Also both filled with natural curiosity...

ChippingInAWinterWonderland Wed 05-Dec-12 22:25:35

Some of these are really funny - Beavers - Bushy, Dog-Sex.

I can't believe that some of you are 'disgusted' 'outraged' and think the kids need a good telling off. Don't you remember being kids?? OK - so all we had was a dictionary and possibly a friends, older brothers playboy.... but jesus wept, the world wont end if a couple of kids google 'nude' and 'bums'. Get A Grip.

ChippingInAWinterWonderland Wed 05-Dec-12 22:26:26

Lynette - Naked Granny... poor kid grin

phantomnamechanger Wed 05-Dec-12 22:39:44

our school filters must be pretty good - because a child could not search for their own address as it was cock lane, and the teacher could not find the words of the owl and the pussy cat either

dare not ask about prince albert

HenriettaTurkey Wed 05-Dec-12 22:43:38

My DH googled images for the Vernacular Architecture Group using just their initials.

It got very biological very quickly.

FlojoHoHoHo Wed 05-Dec-12 22:45:05

The children are taught not to click on the 'images' tab in my school. I got told off by a 10 yr old for clicking on it, as I didn't realise it was banned!

katiecubs Wed 05-Dec-12 22:54:30

I hardly think you need to have a 'stern' word with DS as some posters have said!

Surely it's all very normal behaviour for a curious 7yo?! Perhaps get some books out of the library on the human body instead.

I do think it's worth mentioning to the school though as I'm sure they would like to be aware and improve their filters.

Bogeyface Wed 05-Dec-12 22:56:32

Not at school but when DS was about 7 or 8 (he is 22 now) he was into X-Men, and got Action Man for Xmas.

That was a lesson very quickly learned by both of us! grin

The reason he got in trouble at school was for googling "naked ladies". I was actually quite touched by the naivety of it, considering he was about 12 at the time! Still put a rocket up him about it though!

Bogeyface Wed 05-Dec-12 22:59:51

And the telling off mainly focussed around breaking the rules, not the actual stuff he was searching for. I told him that if I had done that at work then I could lose my job and that rules are there for a reason. I explained that sometimes you dont understand the reason but you must accept that someone has made that rule and you must follow it, or suffer the consequences.

moonstorm Wed 05-Dec-12 23:09:28

Teaguzzler I just think if we remove all risk from our children's lives we are depriving them of the opportunity to learn to manage it for themselves

exactly this - I totally agree.

Endofmyfeather Thu 06-Dec-12 05:27:28

"I just think if we remove all risk from our children's lives we are depriving them of the opportunity to learn to manage it for themselves"

Absolutely agree.

AndABigBirdInaPearTree Thu 06-Dec-12 06:25:59

yeah, I would be really careful how you phrase it so it doesn't sound like ranty pissed off mum and instead comes across as hey, thought you might like to know this.

Something along the lines of that you thought they might want a heads up that the kids were able to get to some inappropriate pictures and that you will be addressing what is ok and what isn't ok to look up on the computer at home with DC, but that you thought the teacher might like to know so she can hit it her end too. I would also mention that if the IT manager wants to know what triggered the search you'd be happy to communicate with them too.

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Thu 06-Dec-12 06:35:01

I think some people have forgotten what it's like to be a child grin

When I was a kid I spent many a furtive moment looking up 'naughty' words in the dictionary grin

Kids do that sort of stuff. Snigger at naughty words, love poo and bum and fart. Find the rude swearwords!

We just have to guide them through that.

Tell the school that they may want to look at their filters. Explain what happened. And talk to your son about it all. What's appropriate and when. And address his body curiosity.

AndABigBirdInaPearTree Thu 06-Dec-12 06:36:47

I remember the day in primary school when we all found out what shit meant!

teaguzzler Thu 06-Dec-12 09:06:09

We are all getting our knickers in a twist somewhat. Seeking out these images has always been a rite of passage for kids.

I once taught in a school where some year 7 boys were caught up a tree reading a playboy magazine. One of the boys got such a shock when caught by the teacher on duty he fell out of the tree and broke his arm. I still remember him waiting for his mum to come and get him begging us not to tell her what he had been doing! We all, including his mum, found it all rather amusing (not the broken arm bit obviously)

I think the difference these days is that while the intentions of the children may still be relatively innocent, we know that the images they potentially have access to may not be. That highlights the importance of supervision

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Thu 06-Dec-12 09:42:24

erm...

lljkk Thu 06-Dec-12 09:51:13

Testing our filters, I find if I google breasts I get pictures of naked breasts. Ditto for penis or even vagina. Never mind arse.

They are clinical, could be out of a text book, just pictures of parts of the naked body.

I wouldn't call them porn just because they are naked parts of the body.

So yes I would complain, but I wouldn't call it porn. Not sure exactly what OP's son saw, but I suspect it was more along lines of medical text book pictures than "soft porn".

allrightluv Thu 06-Dec-12 10:00:43

pictures were not clinical, but on the erotic to soft porn side. try googling "naked girl" and see how many "clinical" images you get...

merlottits Thu 06-Dec-12 10:02:33

It reminds me of the time I walked in to the living room a few years back and caught DS, then aged 8, googling 'huge tits'.

Trying to tell him off while shaking with laughter was so hard grin

GhoulWithADragonTattoo Thu 06-Dec-12 10:35:36

I would be annoyed with the school. The school's filters really should stop that sort of search. Of course you also need to chat to your son.

lljkk Thu 06-Dec-12 10:37:13

So you are sure that the unsuitable images you found from searching on home PC are the exact same ones your son saw on school iPads?

Even if not, it's a reasonable concern to raise, but I would be unsure about insisting that I knew exactly what they'd found, and how unsuitable it was. Only that it sounded rather unsuitable.

I've got too many filters on my home computers to see anything but head shots of clothed women if I google "naked girl". And even then a password is required to search images. So I can't see the same things as you've found.

GreatUncleEddie Thu 06-Dec-12 19:08:42

I Have locked google safe search on our iPad. (Yes, I know the kids could use another search engine if they wanted to circumvent this. ). I have googled breasts - and got images of woman in bras and bikinis. Russian birds got me ornithology sites. Nice biscuits got me nice biscuits! Dog sex got newspaper articles about a man convicted for same. I'm quite impressed so far. Off to clear my search history now!

Catsnotrats Thu 06-Dec-12 19:51:41

I've googled the same without safe search and I think that I have the same results as you greatuncle

Although the dog sex was a little more interesting!

EuphemiaInExcelsis Thu 06-Dec-12 19:52:13

My DH had a phone call from the internet police at his workplace to check whether it was okay to release to him some emails that had been blocked by their filters as they had the words "birds" and "sex" in the subject.

DH is a zoology prof! grin

GreatUncleEddie Thu 06-Dec-12 22:06:34

Ha ha. I did like the story about socialist worker staff getting loads of email blocked because the word socialist, which presumably featured highly in their correspondence, includes the word cialis

Feenie Thu 06-Dec-12 22:17:11

Ha ha! Yes, Scunthorpe residents had a similar problem years ago. grin

whois Thu 06-Dec-12 22:27:01

This just reminded of when my daughter was about seven or eight and wondered how to tell the difference between male and female dogs. I'm 101% sure that she will never google 'dog sex' again

Very funny!!

freddiefrog Thu 06-Dec-12 23:19:16

I put a filter on our computer and then it wouldn't let me google anything with our old county in the title as it had sex in it.

It got turned off

GreatUncleEddie Fri 07-Dec-12 07:57:37

grin Nice link feenie

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