Mumsnet Talk

In a crop top, aged 11 to be circulated on the Internet ?
I'm fcuking fuming just not sure how to handle this.
When we joined the school I was given a form asking for a signature to authorise the children to be photographed. We declined. That as far as I'm concerned should have been the end of the matter.
Except this morning I get a phone to make sure I understand the implications of my child not bring photographed, I say that I do, I am told that she the teacher will explain to my child that she needs to ask mum if she questions why she cannot be photographed. Fine I say.
When the children arrive back into the classroom from assembly the teacher stands up in front of the class and announced that Dd is the only one who cannot have her picture taken, that she may not be able to join the school band or choir because of this.
Later on in the day I received the school newsletter via email displaying DD's classmates performing a dance wearing cropped tops, midriffs on display, confirming everything I was concerned about.
How do I handle this effectively and get a satisfactory outcome ?

It's nice of them to give you a phone though...

Lol
The phone call was very much of the stop being a twat and let us do what we want tone

It's very mean of them to announce it in assembly.

But, I wouldn't get angry about kids in cropped tops .
They're in a production. Not on street corners!

To be serious dc's go to an international school (in a Muslim country) children here have the option of covering up (long sleeved t shirts and leggings in the same colours as the rather skimpy gym club leotards for example)

if you are not happy with midriffs (personally I'm a bit meh about it) then maybe my schools example is an appropriate compromise ?

I think it's quite extreme to say something is circulating the Internet when it has been e-mailed. Totally different things.

However, I would be if they had told my child they couldn't join choir if they were not allowed photo taken. I think first port of call is the teacher to ask exactly what was said. Could it be your DD is attempting to change your mind as she is feeling left out?

Presumably all the other parents gave their consent so the only thing you have to complain about is the teacher being a bit insensitive to your child.

Have a word with the teacher and tell her that you are angry that she singled your child out in front of everyone and if she ever has personal information to give her again she should do it in private.

Was it a hip hop routine? Because my dd wears a cropped top and shorts for her hip hop classes and it would never in a million years cross my mind to be worried about her photographed, as part of her dance school.

No DD couldn't have cared less until the teacher made a point of making it a big deal because she clearly thought we were in the wrong not letting her to photograph my child.
The image has been emailed to over three hundred people the school had no control over where that image ends up do they ?

What are you actually worried about? Sadly I think there's enough child porn around for paedos not to have to rely on school photos of west side story productions for wank material. However, agree the school could have handled it better although in terms of announcing it in front of the whole class.

I wouldn't be bothered about a picture of them in a dance costume to be honest, but they shouldn't be singling her out like that.

DH and I foster, and at the moment we have a child with us who we absolutely cannot allow to have photos published anywhere. School have never singled them out, pics are taken and if they appear in any, we are given a copy for their memory box, then they get deleted.

Was your child in the photo or not? If not, I'm not sure I understand your objection?

It doesn't matter where the image has gone to since the other parents have consented to have their children photographed - what other people choose to do is not your concern.

I would be going batshit crazy if I were you OP. What the school did was irresponsible and to cause dd such public upset is distgusting I think

I'm not sure if you really need to fume on behalf of other parents.

Your DD was not in the photo, so why are you looking for 'a satisfactory outcome'?

Let the other parents complain if they want to.

(I agree it was not really necessary to announce to the class that your DD would not be in any photos)

Would the OP mind so much your child was wearing leggings and a long baggy t-shirt? Is it more about the crop top or the photo in general?

Confirming everything you were concerned about?

What were you concerned about? What do you think anyone will think of an image of a midriff?

TBH when the newsletter comes out I barely pay attention to the pictures unless my child is in them, and if they are in them I only pay attention to them. I imagine most parents are the same.

Dcs school has a photography department ... The weekly roundup is like a copy of hello magazine
Personally I love seeing pictures of my children school stuff, we get themed calendars at end of term they are hilarious.

Ok I'm annoyed that having been told no by me for whatever reason, I have said no the teacher then takes it upon herself to a phone me and question this decision and having been told no again decides to embarrass my child by singling her out because she clearly doesn't agree with me and then lies about the choir and band - its clearly rubbish. There was just no need for it.
And I do think it's a questionable decision putting photos of 11 years in cropped tops oink cyberspace.

Honestly? I think you're being entirely hysterical about it. Fair enough if you don't want your dd photographed (although at 11, couldn't she have a say?) but why are you "fuming" about pictures of the rest of the class in dance costumes?

YABU.

I am also - you don't seem to be that bothered about your DD being told he cannot join choir/band if no permission for photographs, you don't even seem that bothered bout the way your DD was singled out in front of her peers.

What seems to be bothering you is a photo of other people's children wearing crop tops being emailed to them. Why is that anything to do with you?

The teacher was wrong to make a big deal about it and announce it in assembly, but as you weren't in the assembly and nor were any of us on this thread, it's hard to judge how bad the school was on that one.

The school and the teachers were not wrong to send a picture of children in costumes out to their email list. All the parents whose children were included in that consented to it, so it's not a problem.

Where you bothered by her being dressed like that? If not what is the problem?

The teacher should have been more sensitive BUT if there are things where photos are being taken then there is always going to be the chance they will end up being excluded Unfortunatly.

Well I think we are all agreed that you should definitly complain about your child being singled out in that way - although I would double check what was actually said before you go in all guns blazing.

Other than that you can't be worrying about what everyone else has decided is best for them and their children.

The teacher will have phoned to clarify before any pictures were taken. Seems sensible to me.

The school website has photos of the kids in their batters too, we'd come across those photos before joining the school which influenced our decision to tick the no photography box. If other parents are fine with it that's their business we are not fine with it hence the decision, the teachers can't be expected to differentiate hence I've said no to all photos rather than just the semi naked ones they feel comfortable publishing.

What are batters?

Bathers

I doubt your teacher 'announced it' to the class. She was probably speaking about clubs and then mentioned to your DD that she possibly couldn't join. The teacher probably called you to make you fully aware of the implications of your decision.

You obviously have your reasons for your choice, and they will effect your DD, I don't see why you are upset.

Are any private parts on display in these photos? What harm does a photo of a child in a swim suit or crop top pose?

Semi naked in "bathers" or crop tops! OP I think you must live a very sheltered life!

The school newsletter emailed to you is hardly circulated on the internet.

She's wearing a crop top, and I'm assuming all the girls in the dance group are wearing the same.

Are you annoyed at whats she's dressed in? the email? or being singled out?

If she did single your child ou in this bizarre and public way then no, YANBU about that

The email pics...erm....wouldnt bother me. They are only crop tops ??Does your DD ever wear one in the street ?

Are you sure about the swimming costumes ?

the teacher stands up in front of the class and announced that Dd is the only one who cannot have her picture taken, that she may not be able to join the school band or choir because of this

I love LOVE to see how they could follow through with this. There could be any number of safety reasons why you would not want your DDs picture being taken and you are not obliged to give any of them.

I cannot see what purpose it served to bring this up in front of the whole class, it's none of their business.

Your child wasn't in the photograph. Which is exactly what you wanted.
You need to stop being bothered on behalf of the other parents, who presumably have no problem with it at all.

I would love.

Doh.

Seriously I dont get why your bothere about the crop tops ?? What do you think will happen.
Mass belly button watching ??

Was the picture of children in their batters showing a swimming lesson or something?

I can't see a problem with it myself, I think you are being a tad hysterical about a non issue. It's fine for other parents to give consent, it's fine for there to be pictures of children in costumes with midriffs showing on the Internet and its fine for the school to double check with you about your dd being included in the pictures.

It is not fine for them to embarrass your child, and it is not fine for them to exclude your child from school activities.

The school is out of order.

If they make it an option it to be photographed, they must be able to enforce it, rather than bully the parents who selected the less desirable option for the school.

Child can join any club. They can easily be removed from the pictures.

Are you worried about paedos getting over excited about seeing a group of children in crop tops? If so I think you need to get a grip op. I can understand the schools point that she can't be in the school band or choir because of this because it would mean they would have to ban all the other parents from taking pictures of their own children during performances.

Although I would be upset about her being singled out like this.

An option not to be photographed...

I'm using the cropped tops and bathers as examples as to why I don't want my children photographed, clearly the school is comfortable photographing and circulating these photos which is why I said no.
It's more the undermining the parents having been told no twice, the upsetting DD publicly that I would like addressing.
I'm surprised at the MN response, real life has been quite different.

If the teacher announced it in front of the whole class then that was out of order. But as for the rest I think YABU.

You declined - the school called you to check. Children in crop tops or swimming costumes are ten a penny here in the summer (Sussex coast) AMD no-one bats an eyelid.

Just what do you expect will happen to these children if, by some very small remote chance, a stranger did find a copy of a photograph online? You sound a bit hysterical tbh.

(Obviously I understand that sometimes there is a real danger if looked after children appear in school photos, but that doesn't seem to be the case here).

The reasons for saying no aren't really relevant are they? The pics wouldn't bother me personally, but the OP said no, and that should be the end of it.

I'd complain about the way she was singled out, but I'd not complain about the pics of other peoples kids, presumably their parents said yes

People are more polite in real life. They tend to say what you want to hear rather than what they are actually thinking.

freddie I think a lot of posters (including me) are also responding to the OP's statement And I do think it's a questionable decision putting photos of 11 years in cropped tops oink cyberspace.

Most people have managed to split the two issues. They shouldn't have singled her out publically BUT when photos are taken there is always the chance she will feel excluded.

There is nothing wrong with the school clarifying things with you when specifics occur.

Your reasons for not wanting photos though do seem rather daft though.

Paedo Paranoia gone mad!

I think that the examples, cropped tops,etc. are just distracting from the main problem.

The school must be able to enforce privacy when requested.

There can be other reasons for wanting privacy.

No Mosman thats not what you originally wanted addressing at all ?? The title of your thread is " Would you be happy for a photo of your child dressed in a crop top aged 11 to be circulated on the internet" Apparently you are fucking fuming about it ?? Even though your child isnt in the picture ??

So again YABU !

YANBU if yuor child really was singled out in that way, which is what you have now decied you are asking.

Oh and in real life people just roll their eyes about you behind your back I'm afraid.

decided..

The point is that having been told no the teacher is trying to upset my child so she goes home upset and questions me, she told me she would tell DD to ask mum if DD asked why she wasn't to be photographed but that wasn't good enough the teacher wanted to ensure DD was upset and would question me perhaps because I've created a few moments of extra cropping work for her to remove my DD from the photograph. I think that's piss poor tbh

Thats not the title of your thread though.
that scenario is fair enough. Thats not waht you asked and wasnt your point.

joyfulchristmasjumper sorry, I meant the school. As far as they're concerned the OP said no, that should be the end of it. We had to say no with our foster child, that was the end of it.

If the OP had said "We asked that no pictures be taken of DD, the school phoned me up to query it, then embarrassed DD confront of her class and have threatened to exclude her from some groups" then I don't doubt that most posters would be sympathetic.

I think it's the OP's consternation about photographs of other people's children in crop tops and swimming costumes that is making a lot of posters a bit

Cricketbill, I'm surprised people are happy to have those images circulated of their children yes. DH and I are not. Roll your eyes all you like.

If the teacher is taking pics of the class, I think it quite reasonable of her to ring and confirm you do not want your DD to appear in any of them as she will have to make a conscious effort to make sure your DD is not in front of the lens, as opposed to a more candid shot.

Though I am not criticising your decision whatsoever

Oh right freddie, I see. And yes, you're quite right.

Why are you surprised OP?

i don't see the problem with a child being photographed in any form they appear in public (yes, shows and swimming teams are public)

but i can see your point. and there's no reason to force your child not to be part of a show or choir or band.
if they accidentally photograph her they can photoshop her out.
or take team photos without her in them.

Complex number you don't think us saying no on the form they gave us to sign is sufficient then ?

Can I ask OP, if your child was in the school band would you insist that parents are not allowed to photograph their own children performing alongside your DD?

It wasnt me eye rolling actually but ok....

I'm not bothered by my children appearing in a weekly school newletter emailed to parents wearing p.e kit or crop tops . No I'm not. I dont get why I should be ???

Your daughter is 11, surely you should have explained your stance on this before it became an issue?

It you have taken the choice not to have photos of her taken then huh should have make sure your daughter knew this and knew it meant she may have to sit out of photos when they are taken

What if your DD was in the swimming team and won a medal ?? As mind is and did. She appeared proudly on the fron tof the local newspaper this Olympic summer. Beaming away, wearing her medal and a swimsuit
Would you say no to your DD ??

Curious ??

There was no need for announcement either they could have just sent DD on an erandt whilst taking photos, put her on the end to be cropped off but no she made a conscious decision because she doesn't agree with me to make a ding and dance about it.

Parents taking photos I'd rather they didn't get my Dd in but I've never demanded the negatives or insisted they don't. The school asked and were told no. They should respect that not question it and not try to undermine me via my child.

Im with the complete hysterical over reaction people here. So other peoples kids have been photographed in their dance costumes and yet again paedophile hysteria seems to take over.

I would say no to the swimsuit shot, absolutely.

But why should the school "pretend" that she should do an errand or have to photoshop her out really? She's 11 not 5.

Surely you have already explained that she needs to sit photographs out and she shouldn't need the school making up pretend jobs so that she doesn't feel left out.

Perhaps she wanted to be in the photos which is why they phoned you to double check?

So you want the school to lie to your daughter then?

If you haven't given permission for her to be photographed then they can't take a photo with her on then crop her off (which isn't that simple for most in reality either)

Er so they don't upset somebody perhaps ? You can be 11 and have feelings you know they don't vanish at 5

What if your DD was in the swimming team and won a medal ?? As mind is and did. She appeared proudly on the fron tof the local newspaper this Olympic summer. Beaming away, wearing her medal and a swimsuit

Well done to your DD!

I don't want them to lie, I don't want then to humiliate her either perhaps there's some middle ground no ?

As you have ignored my earlier question I will ask again -

Why haven't YOU explained to your daughter why YOU made the choice before it became an issue?

But why would she be upset when you have explained the reasons why you have decided she cannot have her photo taken.

If she is upset about that then maybe you should allow her to make up her own mind about whether she wants to be photographed.

At 11 I do not have to justify my decisions to a child, they needed my permission it was denied, DD couldn't have cared less, knew we had said no but was upset when told this would impact on her ability to join the choir which is a lie.
Thanks for the input I'll be drafting an email in the morning and will leave out the cropped tops point.

I would guess from the way you're talking OP you wouldn't even let your DD compete in a swimming competition? I might be wrong, I just can't get my head around why you see photographs of children doing perfectly ordinary things (and wearing appropriate clothing for said activity) so offensive?

Is there something hitherto unknown that will cause the fabric of the universe to ripped asunder if the midriff of an 11-year-old is on display?

Should the parents of these girls be arrested? https://dancewear.co.uk/products&subcat=108

At 11 you should be more than willing to justify your views on things to your daughter. Why on earth wouldn't you?

Yes KenDodd you are wrong

You wanted your child singled out and excluded and you got your child singled out and excluded with some humiliation into the bargain. Well done you OP!!

YANBU to be annoyed that your child us being singled out and excluded from groups because you don't want her to be photographed. YABU to see something inherantly wrong or worrying about children being photographed in sports or dancewear or a costume appropriate for a school activity.

Well actually you do have to justify your decisions to your child if they are making her upset. Not expect the school to cover up for you with a range of excuses every time there is a photo call.

Yes you don't want her in them. No the school shouldn't have told her she couldn't join choir. But you need to talk to your daughter about why you won't allow her to have her photo taken.

Erm, your DD deserves respect. Even at 11. You do need to justify your choices like this to her, especially when they will have a big impact on what she can do in school

So it's my fault the teacher can't respect the parents wishes and feels the need to share my business with a bunch of year 5's ? Just wow

You know op, you sound like my mum. I was never allowed to do things the other children were allowed to do. I resent my mother to this day (30 years later) for the way she oppressed me and we still have a bad relationship. My mum was only trying to do her best and protect me from the world but she took it far to far and saw stranger danger everywhere.

This is not a dig, for all I know you might have very good reasons why your DD must not be traceable, it's just that this thread has made me quite sad.

It's because we respect DDs privacy I won't have her splashed all over the Internet.
Thanks for your input.

I can't help thinking that your solution - for the teachers to make up pretend errands, ensure she's on the edge of group shots so she can be cropped, presumably ban parents from taking pictures (and they'd soon work out which kid was being 'protected') would be more humiliating than the teacher's approach here.

No it's your fault your daughter wasn't aware that you had taken the decision and why.

Nobody has denied the school have (from what your daughter has said to you) handled things badly but that doesn't mean you have handled it well

My children do everything other children do, swimming carnivals, dance festivals etc etc I just don't want the photos. That's all

Well perhaps you should explain that to her then...

Yes. Perfectly happy.

I would see the photo as a total non-issue.

If I had declined photographs though and that had been ignored I'd be angry, but they didn't ignore it - they rang you

I would be angry about them telling her she couldn't be in the group though. Surely they could just leave her out of the photos and that's that?

I'm trying to handle it well going forward hence asking advice on here.
This isnt a school issue it's an individual teacher.

The school had to say something to your child to exclude her from the shot?

Out of interest, what happens when you go to the beach? Anyone can quite legally take pictures of your 'semi-naked' child in public without your permission

At eleven I don't think you should expect the school to have to photoshop her out. She should know the truth.

Personally I would have no issues whatsoever with the swimming or dance shots.

If I was you I would email in and just find out what was said first as I think it sounds a little odd.

But I would certainly not include anything about fairly innocent shots of a dance group in costume.

Before you do anything I would clarify with the teacher what was said, it could well be the comment was

"you may not be able to take part in x event because photos will be being taken" which is an unfortunate effect of a child being excluded from photos.

YABU for not thinking that it's your job to discuss your decisions with your daughter, you may indeed have the final say in decisions that impact her, but to not discuss them is disgusting.

YABU for fuming on behalf of other parents who do not have a problem with what you're fuming about.

At 11 I do not have to justify my decisions to a child
Ah... the old 'because I say so' attitude that my parents used to use on me. What harm could there possibly be in explaining the rationale behind your decisions, or 'justifying' these as you would call it? If you have the courage of your convictions, why do you have a problem explaining them to your child?

I think you are taking it a bit too far expecting the school to shield your dd from the fact that you haven't given permission for her to be photographed. It's fine for her to tell them that she can't be in the picture because her parents don't want her to be. It's fine for them to tell her that she should ask you if she wants to know why.

If she does want to know why, then it is your job to explain it to her, that's what parents do, especially when it's about decisions that are being made on the child's behalf. If you don't explain your reason to them then they turn in to teenagers that think you just want to ruin their lives for the sake of it and then they rebel.

You see they didn't Charlotte because they had already taken the shot, this was about publishing it in the newsletter, what she wanted me to say was oh it's fine I've not thought this through go ahead use your photo, the picture was taken weeks ago.

Hang on

So they did photograph her?

In your OP you say it was a shot of her classmates without her in

Have I missed something? Sorry if I have

But still, it is your role to explain to her your rules. Not the schools. You don't have to justify them. But you at least need to let her know they exist and are of your making

So was your DD in the newsletter photo or not? I'm

She wasn't in the newsletter, the teacher had got her in the photos though and obviously either had to pick a shot she wasn't it or cut her out. Which wasn't what we had agreed to, but of course I've no evidence that she's been photographed because I won't be shown the photos taken and I'm not that fussed that I wouldn't want her snapped at all I just don't want beaming front and centre photos of her in a state of undress being sent out on the Internet. Fully dressed I'd have no issue with but since we can't trust the school to differentiate its easier to just say no to all.

catgirl I'd have been perfectly happy to do so had Dd raised it, the teacher just wanted to make damn sure DD raised though didn't she

OP, Can you 'differentiate' between 'a state of undress' and a crop top?

Do you let her out in public in a crop top?

In a public place anyone has the right to photograph her. They then own that image and can publish it where ever they like

She shouldn't have had to raise it, before she was in a position to raise it you should have made sure that she was aware of it. The only person to blame for that is you.

You don't know exactly what the teacher said, you weren't there.

If you can trust your 11 year old to tell you what happened accurately, then you can trust her to understand why you don't want her photographed.

I;m not sure how the school was meant to exclude her from the photographs without letting her know she had to be excluded

I am not saying that handled it well and if they did say she might not be able to stay in the group that seems wrong, but how would you have liked them to handle it?

No I wouldn't let her walk around in a cropped top, it's underwear as far as I'm concerned

And the first I knew of this "costume" was upon arrival at the assembly, there were a few raised eyebrows due to how unflattering it was to some of the girls who had their arms crossed over their chests.

I imagine your dd already knows your strong views regarding her photograph being taken?

Your first post says that the teacher told the class (of 11 yo) that your DD cannot have their picture taken. As others have said you really need to speak to the teacher to understand the tone and intent. I understand that your DD may feel upset however, it is possible that the teacher meant no offence.

Also that 'she may not be able to join the school band or choir because of this'. Maybe they film them? You clearly have very strong feelings on the matter and this could impact the rest of the group. If I worked at your DD school I would be very reluctant to include your DD in photographs. It is an administrative pain in the arse and I can see why staff are a bit put out. They know how you feel and will adhere to your wishes.

Another one here that doesn't care about DC being pictured in bathers and dance costumes.

In this instance cat they could have just used a photo she wasn't in, as indeed the did. No need for the big fuss and no need to upset her because she the individual teacher didn't agree with my decision.

It's a dance costume. Your making it sound like they wander around in their pants at school.

Swimming dancing etc its par for the course.

But maybe she can't stay in the group because they can't control her not being photgraphed at outside events etc

They could have broken it to her more gently / privately I agree,but if that is the case then they needed to let her know

I'm confused. In your OP you said the teacher phoned and was making a fuss because she couldn't photograph your DD, now you says the teacher took a photograph a few weeks ago and phoned you to ask about it being in the newsletter.

Cat if you'd heard the phone call, my DD was td to punish me for making extra work and going against what the teacher wanted to do. I'll find out exactly what was said but if she did publicly announce it then I think she's a bitch because the only motivation behind it was to make me look bad in my daughters eyes.

The photo used in the newsletter was taken weeks ago. I assume DD was in some of them, not the published one and that was the reason for the phone call she wanted to use one DD was in.

I can understand why you're annoyed at the teacher announcing it in front of the class but as others have said, why wasn't your DD aware of your decision? Presumably this isn't something that you've only just decided but has been in place her whole time at the school (please correct me if that's wrong).

'in a state of undress'.

That's a little hysterical in itself. As is conflating an emailed school newsletter with pictures of your daughter being 'splashed all over the Internet'.

If things happened at the school as you describe, though, and your daughter's been singled out in front of her peers and told she can't join the choir, then they've behaved very unprofessionally and badly.

The teacher told your DD to punish you?

Sorry I sim

Can I ask op what do you do at the beach etc? Lots of people take pictures/video, they may include your family?

The teacher told your DD to punish you?

Sorry I simPly don't believe that for a second. You just seem to be adding more and more to try to make the school sound bad

I can't say I have ever looked at an 11 year old in a crop top and thought that it could possibly be conceived as sexual?!?!?! It's very common dance attire what would you like them to wear burka's FFS!

YABU and are extreme in your views.

She has been at the school three weeks. It's simply never been an issue at other schools they haven't put the photos online or in newsletters.

I find it very strange school says can we photograph her, I say no, teacher phones up to question that decision and suddenly child is purposefully made aware she is to be left out after teacher calls, in front of friends. Why can't the choir be lined up and photographed without DD, must we have action shots, are they essential ?

I don't want to make the school look bad I think the teacher has behaved badly and she's made herself look cruel all by herself no help required from me.

Because if you say no photos then that impacts on everyone, they can't allow parents to take pictures at events. Why should everyone else miss out because of your choice?

Oh I see, I assumed she'd been at this school for some time. Thanks for explaining.

Most schools do prefer action shots though, they better convey the enjoyment of the children taking part.

Do you think your DD wouldn't notice her peers being taken and photographed without her? Personally I think more natural 'action' shots are generally much better than posed ones anyway.

The school photos were emailed to the parents of your dd's schoolmates only. That's hardly "splashed all over the Internet".
If your dd performs in the school choir; parents will photograph / video the performance (whether they're requested not to, or not) and they will be splashed all over the Internet.
How could the school have handled it differently?

At what age will you allow your poor daughter to have some say in your Puritanism?

Your decision to not allow YOUR dd should not cause an issue for the majority. It is very entitled of you to expect school to completely change their approach to how they photograph groups to suit your sensibilities. In which case YABVU in expecting the rest of the class/ group NOT to be told.

YABVVVVU not to have discussed this in advance with your dd.

And we had agreed the teacher and I how that would be handled Sirtzy but oh no she wanted to make damned sure the matter was raised by DD when actually DD is a cool little character who wouldn't have been bothered had it not been announced to the whole bloody class. What purpose did that serve exactly, you tell me ?

So you are expecting the school to change how they do things to suit your very over the top views?

What if other parents want to see action shots of the whole choir or other groups? Do they not have that right?

(BTW before anyone says, I have full sympathy for those with genuine reasons not to have photos taken)

What purpose did that serve exactly, you tell me ? You expect the class to accomodate your special requirements? Maybe they shoudl know this?

How was it announced?

Did she say 'now quieten down class I have something to tell you all.....' or was it a passing comment when she was talking to the class.

I don't know whats wore your hysteria about photos that, quite frankly, no one will give a shit if your daughter is in or not, they have their own kids to look at, or your insistance that the teacher 'announced' this to the class to somehow undermine you.

If they were taking photos this afternoon what did you want them to do?

Again YOU should have made sure your Daughter knew why you had made the decision well in advance. Your daughter probably thinks its odd that after 11 years you suddenly decide she can't have her photo taken because I certainly do!

The other 11 year old should know should they ? Bullshit it's none of their concern.

The teacher may have singled out your DD and I'm not condoning that, but your decision has also singled out your DD and unless you insist the school bans other parents taking pictures during performances it seems unenforceable.

You might be unhappy about your DD's picture on the internet, I can't say I'm thrilled about it myself but this is the world we live in, you can't turn the clock back. IMO you need to have a little thing about what is most damaging to your DD (and stressful to you), her being singled out and removed from line ups during her entire school career, or appearing in group pictures you then have no control over.

You still haven't said what you do do at the beach ect also what harm to you think she will come to if she is in newsletters?

You do realised 11 year olds aren't daft dont you? They will notice that one child is always being left out of photos however you try to approach it. It is impossible for them not to know.

The pictures of her were taken "weeks ago" - the crop tops ones with the dance performance...

But she has been at the school for 3 weeks...

Did she practise the dance for the show, get her costume and perform it before she joined the school...???

Why did you move her to this school from her previous one - did you have a similar set up with no photos at her previous school...??

She can have her photo taken by people who's judgement I trust, since the school thinks cropped tops and swim suits are suitable attire for website publication then they may not photograph her.

What's the difference? If you don't want her photographed at all her peers will notice that whether its shouted from the rooftops or not.

Does your DD now want to be in the photographs? Is that really what the issue is with the other teacher that she wants to do something you don't want her to

So you let your daughter wear crop tops for a dance show but you won't let her have her photo taken in that top?

DD couldn't care less, she does want to be in the choir and will be, the teacher is making empty threats which isn't very nice is it ?

None of the parents knew anything about the crop tops - if they'd asked they would have been told no by me and other parents, they didn't.

So parents will no longer to be allowed to photograph their kids because you are so concerned about what? Having strangers see your child (like they do in the street, on the bus, in the shops etc).

"She can have her photo taken by people who's judgement I trust"

This is completely unenforceable unless you never allow her out in public. How many times do you think she appeared on CCTV today?

You don't know they are empty yet though.... as others have said there may be times where choirs perform and people take photographs. These may well be put on the Internet.

Presumably because of your views you will have to tell your DD she can't be in the choir. That's sad for her if that turns out to be the case.

I can understand why for some children it is imperative that they are not photographed. This is not really the case for your DD. you are adamant she doesn't care about not being photographed so why all the fuss about everyone knowing?

See, I can see various reasons for a parent to not want their photo taken...

Have you moved her schools due to bullying or similar - could it be that you don't want the bullies to "find" her...

Does she have bodily self esteem issues - I have always been HUGE and I would have loved my Mum to say no photos of me...??

Maybe if you go into the actual reasons you don't want her to be photographed then you might get a bit more sympathy...

She hasn't been on CCTV in her swimsuit though I do know that to be a fact.

bath, she has already said it is because she doesn't trust the schools judgement because they have photos of children in their swimsuits on their website.

Sorry if I've missed this, OP, but are you Muslim? Lots of Muslim parents where I live, and they would be horrified at pictures of their 11 year old daughters wearing crop tops and swimming costumes being circulated in the school newsletter. I'm pretty sure that our local schools would not dream of doing this.

Some children are not allowed to be in photographs for good safety reasons (as a foster carer has already pointed out earlier in this thread). I once looked after two little girls who were on the run from a violent father, and they were not allowed to be in any published school photos.

Either of the above reasons should be good enough for the school, and they should not be excluding your daughter from group activities on the basis of you not allowing her to be in photos. Are you sure this is what the teacher said? - because if it is, I think you have good grounds to complain that the school may be discriminating against certain religions and/or children who are in care etc.

Actually when going through the images collection of sex offenders, children in swimming costumes, dance kit and school uniform are usually quite a large part of the collection.

the children in pictures may not of been abused to get the images but they are still being used.

OP, a lot of people who work dealing with people who collect images of children, do not allow any pictures of their child in school productions, trust your instincts.

As for a teacher drawing attention to your child not being photographed, that is not reasonable, the school aims should be to educate the children, not use them for publicity.

But I assume she does wear a swimsuit in public?

I'm not after sympathy, my reasons are solid enough in my opinion to be good enough for the school to respect my wishes.
I won't mention the tops and I'll ensure I hear the teachers side of the story first.
Thank you

Has she never worn a swim suit then?

Mosman you are obviously entitled to your opinion although i agree with other posters that your reasons are extreme. Do you realise how rare it is for parents to decline having photis taken? Could this be why the teacher was questioning you? Perhaps she was ensuring you had understood the question and the possible consequences for your child. If you insist on refusing for your daughter to have photos taken it is absolutely your responsibility to explain why. The school should not have to alter their usual practice to accommodate you.

Yeah, but that could still be for many reasons - we are assuming its "paedo panic" but it could actually be for other reasons...

Is the OP a follower of a religion that requires modesty etc..?? Is there a past background that might make this more understandable...?

That sort of thing....

YABU, ridiculous and barking mad.

As a child I did dance classes and swimming, and won medals for both, and had my photo in the local paper many times, along with my team mates..

I suggest you seek some help for your extreme paranoia before it damages your childs self esteem.

quote I used to work on a lot of paedophile/child sexual abuse cases. I put photos of my children on Facebook and it wouldn't bother me if someone else did.

A photograph cannot harm your child.

what strikes me as being wrong in all of this is the school saying your DC can't be in these clubs because they can't have their photo's taken, and the announcement in front of the school at assembly. However anyone feels about crop tops and photos this is clearly wrong wrong wrong & they should not be doing this.

I'd also point out that the school actually asked you for your permission. THEY ASKED!!!! Therefore they should rightly expect at least some replies of NO and be able to accommodate them.

This is what I would be jumping up and down & fuming about. Everything else is a distraction.

I wouldn't worry yourself at all about other parents - they can speak for themselves.

Sorry I keep repeating this but- What you do at the beach ect. Also what harm to you think she will come to if she is in newsletters?

FFS. YABU. Get a grip woman.

You are completely over the top about this. What's wrong with photos of your child being taken? What on earth do you think will happen to her???

If you want to spoil things for your daughter, go ahead. In fact, send her to a different school altogether if you don't trust what the school does in this regard.

Better still, home educate, wrap her in cotton wool and don't let her out until she's 75.

The other 11 year old should know should they ? Bullshit it's none of their concern.

I find it very strange school says can we photograph her, I say no. Nobody must know about it, especially not the children

Why can't the choir be lined up and photographed without DD, must we have action shots, are they essential? This may impact the OTHER CHILDREN and THEIR PARENTS. Your dd is and shoudl be your priority. Your decision impacts other people.

What will you go if your DD says she wants to appear in the pictures?

But Bath I doubt it is for amy religious/protective care reasons as the OP said she wouldn't justify her decision to an 11 year old ( her DD). If it were for something like that you would presume the daughter would be up to speed with it.

I don't think its a problem to not want photos taken, but when you are unwilling to discuss your decision with your child and expect the school to make up pretend scenarios every time a photo call comes up then OP is BU.

what strikes me as being wrong in all of this is the school saying your DC can't be in these clubs because they can't have their photo's taken, and the announcement in front of the school at assembly.

To be fair this is only the OPs very hysterical take on things. We don't know exactly what was said or how it was said. People have given a few example of what could have been said and in one context so I would take the big song and dance type annoucement idea with a pinch of salt.

if it is an event which is normally filmed then unfortunately that will mean that the OPs child cant take part.

I imagine the OP would spontaniously combust if her DD said that Kendodd

Am having to post again because this is making my blood boil. Some people are just so completely obsessed with the idea of paedos being everywhere - it's utterly ridiculous. Yes, don't leave your child in the sole care of person you don't know, but a photograph of a child in a trendy top appearing on the internet? Please get some perspective. Idiotic, self-obsessed, over-dramatic nonsense.

Have you spoken to the HT about the teacher's behaviour? I would want to know if my staff were behaving like this because there may be sensitive/confidential reasons not to let a child be photographed and I wouldn't want my staff to be blundering about phoning parents and humiliating pupils with (or without) that kind of issue.

Mosman - You are singling your DD out, not the teacher. You should have told your DD long before now why she's not allowed to be in perfectly ordinary photos - it is ridiculous expecting the school to lie to her on your behalf. If they had sent her away on an errand while the took the photos, do you not think she would have been upset to have been the only child not in the group photo in the newsletter?? Why shouldn't the teacher have told her to discuss it with you if it was a problem? YOU made the decision, not the teacher.

Maybe you need to consider that every other parent is happy with the schools photography and you aren't - for no particular reason, other than DD's 'privacy'. I'd suggest that maybe you need to look at your view on that and your daughters opinion as well. She is 11, not 3, surely she's allowed an opinion at least?

Why are you so adamant that it's a lie that she wouldn't be allowed in the choir? If I was a HT I wouldn't allow her to be in the choir or band, or any team representing the school because it would be a constant arse ache making sure her photo wasn't taken by anyone. An arse ache I would probably endure if the child was fostered or endangered in some way thus needing anonimity - but not due to a parents twattery.

When my DD was 11 and at primary school, they had a blanket ban on taking photos in school productions of any sort. We could only take photos at the end, of our child only.

"Idiotic, self-obsessed, over-dramatic nonsense."

If paedo terror I couldn't agree more.

Right well you did ask.
One of the parents at the school is a convicted pedophile and not allowed on the premise.
They will however be emailed a copy of the school news letter.
This makes me feel a bit I'll if I'm honest.

Ill not I'll

How do you know this Mosman?

"When my DD was 11 and at primary school, they had a blanket ban on taking photos in school productions of any sort. We could only take photos at the end, of our child only."

So glad they don't do that at my DC school. I think many school have moved away from that stance now, seeing how stupid it is not to let parents take pictures.

Really op what harm do you think she will come to?

Storm in a teacup.

The school rang to double check, because there are an astonishing number of busy parents on auto-pilot who tick 'no photos', meaning 'no I am not bothered, you can take as many as you like'

As a guide leader, and other youth groups, I have to comply with image release stuff. If I get a form ticked 'no photos', I call to clarify, not to belittle the parent or to make them change their mind to make their life easier, but to check that a) they didn't make a mistake, and b) if there were reasons behind the 'no photos' decision that I need to be aware of.... Ie, religious customs, dangerous ex-partners who do not currently know where the dc is / safe house type thing, custody battles where I need to know if there is a potential increased danger to the child.

To bleat that the school are wrong to check you meant to tick the box is completely unreasonable. Most of my parents have ticked the box in error, and where they haven't, if I can understand why they do not wish photos to be taken helps me to safeguard their children.

You are being co platelet an utterly unreasonable. Your kid wasn't even in the pictures - the school complied with your wishes, and you are STILL complaining?

Wtaf?

The reason for image release is generally feck all to do with paedophilia, btw. It's usually for privacy reasons relating to custody.

Dd1's dance school are doing a display at the World Cup later this month. They will be in their skimpies in public alongside all those athletes in skintight Lycra. I have no doubt that there will be pics taken.

Am lolling at no CCTV of her in her bathers. Does she not ever use a public pool? Never swim at all? can she swim? Or do you have a private pool at home? Aren't you in Oz? I wouldn't have thought there was too much hang up about 11yos in swimwear... Particularly at this time of year.

OP, I cannot believe that you seriously object to the photograph including your daughter - school photogaph in perfectly normal attire for dance/sport/drama. I think you should seriously consider your strange attitude because you will be in for a very serious teenage rebellion if you restrict your daughter's participation in this way. She is old enough to have her own views.

Oh, it is paedo hysteria.

I'm off then. <yawns>

That's not relevant all other points stand anyway. Obviously they didn't put that In the prospectus.

Well it is relevant really.

I don't think the title of this thread has assisted the discussions, OP. I'd also say that if the teacher has told your dd she cannot take part in other activities purely on the basis of your refusal to have her photograph taken then you need to check the accuracy of this alleged statement.

But equally, it occurs to me that you are spoiling for a fight with the school as well as being very paranoid about photography. It is very important that you give your dd a full explanation about why she cannot be photographed so that she can avoid this happening in the first place. Because I don't see how, if you've forbidden the school to take pictures of her, she ever appeared in the set of pictures you are now so cross about.

It's all very well for you to say that all the school need to do is edit all the pictures they take but, as a press photographer, I can tell you now that I don't routinely crop children out of pictures and neither do I expect to Photoshop every picture I take. Once the picture is taken it will get published and my editor doesn't spend ages going backwards and forwards attempting to get approval before the picture is printed. Instead, we expect the teachers/any other responsible adult to ensure that all children who might be in a picture are allowed to be photographed. Because it is quite customary for some children at every school to be excluded from photography - most often because they are being fostered/in the care of the local authority/at risk if their identity is revealed.

Most schools that I know (and I've a number of friends who are teachers) expect that there will be some children who cannot have their picture taken if it will then be shared anywhere. But then most schools are very careful about how the distribution of newsletters and accessibility of web pages and they aren't just plastered all over the internet for the world to see.

Ultimately it is up to you, of course. But be prepared that you will almost certainly exclude your dd from some activities and that she will be singled out and removed from line-ups. You can't have it both ways.

<faintly weirded out by the sort of mind that rationalizes a convicted paedo waiting on the edge of his email until his child's school newsletter is delivered, instead of hanging at the beach. Quite a waste of his time, given the availability of midriffs on the high street.>

"One of the parents at the school is a convicted paedophile and not allowed on the premise.
They will however be emailed a copy of the school news letter.
This makes me feel a bit I'll if I'm honest. "

Yes it would make me feel ill as well. But lets imagine, worse case, the image is passed around a paedophile group, even that, horrible as it is, isn't going to harm your DD.

madwoman, I'm weirded out by that too.

Any person walking past you in the street could be a convicted paedophile too. What do you intend to do about that? Put a paper bag over your daughters head?

How did you get this information and how do you know the school sends newsletters out to them anyway?

Do you know how paedophiles function, OP? Only they rarely rely on what will inevitably be low res photographs of clothed children in school newsletters to feed their horrible habit. Also, how do you know one of the parents is a convicted paedophile?

You seem to know an awful lot about the parents in a school your child has only attended for three weeks!

YANBU to Think they shouldn't have humiliated your daughter, especially if she's new to the school and trying to fit in.

YANBU to ask the school not to include your daughter in the photographs. I don't really understand your reasons but I'm assuming you and your H have thought this through and are protecting your daughter. I don't agree with your hysteria about crop tops and swimming costumes as you let her wear them and, as others have said, you might find issues with other people taking photographs which do include your daughter. Everyone can't amend their behaviour for you.

YABUto not discuss the reasons with your daughter. She's 11 years old and it would be a great way to open up the discussion about Internet safety.

I used to look after a child who had been abused by his parents. We had to be very careful with him around food. He would eat and eat until he threw up because he didn't understand what that 'full feeling' was due to a life of not being fed properly. He would grab at food like it would be taken away if he wasn't quick. He was forcibly taken away from his birth parents and adopted. Last time I heard everything was going swimmingly. When he was at my nursery we always had to be careful about photos in case he could be identified and traced to the nursery.
The teacher should have accepted that a child could not be photographed. She should not have singled her out in public. That was unprofessional behaviour.
The teacher saying she might not be able to join the school choir or band is fair. If they perform in public they can't stop people from taking photos.

So.. the school is going to deliberately send an email with photographs of schoolchildren specifically and directly to someone they have banned from the premises because he is a convicted paedophile. Right... I expect he is on all their email lists.

And you know this how exactly?

If any of this is true, you are a very hysterical person.

Trivialise if it makes you feel better, it makes me feel quite ill tbh
I'll do whatever it takes to ensure I feel comfortable, as comfortable as you can under the circumstances. The fact is a simple no box ticked should have been sufficient in the first place and that decision had been made before we were told but my god I want it enforced now.

It is the kind of thing other parents like to ensure newbies know I guess. I'd be fucked off if we'd had them over for dinner and nobody told me.

Again who told you this?

You can do what you want but you can't expect your child to be hidden from your decision and it will have an impact for her in school, it is impossible for it not to. You seem to be struggling to understand this in your hunt to blame everyone else!

"I'll do whatever it takes to ensure I feel comfortable"

Yes OP this is all about making you feel better, even you seem to realize this isn't about protecting you DD, because no danger exists.

Ahhh so you found out from that ever reliable source of playground gossips then!

I'm very confused. You stated earlier that whilst looking at the school brochure you noticed children in swimsuits, were unhappy by this and that's what made you decide no photos.
Now you are saying a story about convicted paedophiles receiving the newsletter. I assume this wasn't in the brochure?

So which was it?

I find your whole attitude quite frankly baffling and it is a million percent your own fault for not discussing this no photo/no swimsuit/no clothing that does not cover entirely with your daughter.

And as for expecting the school to take the photo and cut her out?
Ludicrous. If you had explained all this in the first place then she would know she isn't allowed to have her photo taken.

But I suspect you avoided that conversation in case your dd was of a differing opinion.

It is the kind of thing other parents like to ensure newbies know I guess. I'd be fucked off if we'd had them over for dinner and nobody told me.

So....this knowledge is actually based on playground gossip then? Also, has it ever occurred to you that anyone coming for dinner could be a paedophile? They don't usually wear a badge.

tbh, it does sound like you are making this up as you go along. Either that, or appaling drip-feeding.

No I just blame the teacher, quite clear on that one. Unprofessional, unnecessary and not nice.

Complex - I will go for the making things up as she goes along. She simply doesn't want to admit she was in the wrong so is looking for people to blame.

The convicted ones kind of do wear a badge though don't they. The whole criminal record thing

So parents at the school have told you (the newbie) that the school send emails to this person?

Really? Honestly? How do they know this?

Your daughter is far more likely to suffer from your hysteria than from appearing in photographs.

Pretty much everyone has agreed the teacher is in the wrong here so I don't need to blame or admit anything though do I ?

It's generally not plastered on their forehead though.

So you not see that you should have discussed this issue with your daughter?
It's a shame really.

And FWIW cropped tops? Not underwear. Or like underwear.

Why would this person be coming to dinner? Do they live with their child? If they do then the person is not a convicted paedophile and you are listening to playground gossip.

Make whatever choice you like about your child, but don't go in stamping your feet and take away other people choices about their children.

The convicted ones kind of do wear a badge though don't they

You have lost me now!

Well if that is what happened I bet your dd just wants to be in the photos and is trying to force your hand

My daughter knows nothing of this and plays with the child of this person because we aren't such tossers that we'd isolate the child of the family. There's no hysteria.

How on earth do you know that is what the teacher said? Every 11year old, infact nearly every child, I have known has been prone to exaggerate especially when they are after a bit of sympathy!

I agree with nearly every one else, you have singled your DD out, it is not the school's job to send her on imaginative errands or put her on the end of a row so she can be cropped out, to spare her feelings. If she is upset by your actions, then you must explain them to her!

The whole criminal record thing - yes. The ones that have been caught of course. People with criminal records do tend to wear badges announcing their criminal convictions - I've heard you can get them in different colours depending on the offence.

Careful now, there could be some that haven't been caught and they may be watching you right now!

Not quite sure I believe you any more. For which I'm quite thankful really, as I would be concerned for your dd.

So the convicted paedophile still lives with the child

While I totally agree that some child should not be photographed due to special concerns, eg safety, I get really frustrated at parents like the OP.

I have no pictures, due to the blanket ban I posted earlier, of my children performing at school, in character on stage. Pictures of the children standing in costume on their own, away from the stage, do not in any way convey the event they were involved in.

I am thinking in particular of DD's final performance at the school where she finally had a main part after years of being in the shadows, and even other parents were congratulating her on her performance. No pictures

You need to admit you are being slightly hysterical about the photo thing and very unreasonable for not discussing this with your dd.
And wrong for wanting every other parent to not take pictures of their child in case your dd is in it. And wrong for wanting the school to collude in your persistence of not discussing the issue with your dd and taking her photo then cropping her out.

As I said I will be raising it with the teacher and we'll get to the bottom of it. Andcifvthat means no action shots of the choir I'm sure nobody will die

What is the point of being in a choir if you can't perform in front of an audience because hey might take photos?

Well your dd won't be in the choir will she?

So there will be action shots.

And your attitude? Ugh.

People may not be die but people will be dissapointed.

What if the choir performance is normally recorded? Would you expect them to stop doing that to?

The convicted ones kind of do wear a badge though don't they. The whole criminal record thing

My point was that you only know (or at least think you know) about the convicted paedophile. Anyone who comes to dinner could be a paedophile and you'd never know, would you? In reality, they probably aren't, of course because rational people don't see paedos around every corner.

Wiley I have no idea where he or she lives, just the family involved and it is common local knowledge.

Andcifvthat means no action shots of the choir I'm sure nobody will die

Sorry, but you are going way beyond unreasonable here. Fair enough, you don't want your child to be photographed but you've absolutely no right to impose your diktat on other parents who are happy to see pictures of their children in the choir. Action shots always complementing formal compositions. As my MIL used to say, there's a grave danger of you assuming you are Body Everyself...

You just sound nuts.

I don't see pedophiles around every corner and I'd rather they had as little exposure to my kids as I can control. You can't control everything but what you can you should. DD will be in the choir believe me

Ah, that ever reliable information source, "common local knowledge". It was common local knowledge that I was pregnant for the last three years. Eventually I was last year, it was something of a relief!

What paedophile was "definitely" in contact with your dd's last school that meant she couldn't be photographed there?

Er, it is a tad hysterical tbh.

You launched in with crop tops and circulation on the Internet, and the reality is that there was a photo emailed to parents only that your child do not appear in, because you had refused permission.

It looks like a pretty hysterical over-reaction to me.

What gives you the right to be so up in arms about in convent pictures of other people's kids in a school play? That they had all given permission to be taken?

Are you really cross because you think these other parents are endangering their offspring, and that the school should have a strict full clothing at all times and no pictures ever policy?

Or did you just want a gossip about a parent who is apparently a convicted paedophile?

Really, if you want to reach a whole new level of paranoia, you should be pleased that dd has been banned from productions and public performances, then she will be safe from the prying eyes of the unconvicted paedophiles. Those ones that you may well be inviting to dinner as they haven't got their badge yet...

I imagine it went something like -

Teacher - right class we need names of people who want to sign up for choir

OPs DD puts her hand up to join

Teacher - Oh OPs DD you can't put your name down

Ops DD - why

Teacher - Your Mum doesn't want you in the photos.

Something like that would be far more plausable than the teacher sitting plotting how best to get back at the OP for saying no photos and going out of her way to humilate a child.

Your attitude sucks btw, being so entitled as to let your choices impact on a whole school of kids is awful. I wouldn't worry about any more parents telling you playground gossip they won't be speaking to you at all soon enough.

Do the choir wear full floor length robes?

That should be ok then.

How do the school gossips know that this 'peadophile' is being sent the school newsletter?

Google doesn't tend to advertise pregnancies it's handy for things like this though.

so if he is a convicted paedophile, why the hell does he still have access to any children, especially his own?

If he has no contact with his children, then why is he still able to receive a newsletter from a school from which he should have no dealings?

Those are the things you should be focussing on, rather than not allowing your dd to be photographed in activity appropriate attire just in case a paedo sees her.

There was a convicted paedophile FOR DEFINITE at both of the schools your daughter has attended? Still living with his/her children? Really?

So, to sum up, you are worried about a peadophile seeing a picture of a group of children that your DD might be in?

Oh I have no doubt you will get her in the choir - no doubt at all (whether she can hold a tune or not). I just hope it will be YOU that has to explain to her why she will NOT be able to participate when they are performing - and she wont. The school will not change what they do, not even to pacify one hissy-fitty-parent.

No just the one school not sure what you're on about there Cathy

Do you realise that parents like you make it difficult for parents like me who have a proper reason for not having our children photographed?

Schools think we are all hysterical and unreasonable.

I feel for the next adoptive or foster parent who has to tell the head that their child cannot be photographed.

They are going to get this look aren't they?

Why wasn't she allowed to be photographed at last school then?

Thats a very good point MrsDeVere

People like to OP distract from the very real issue of photographs for some families

You have already said that this is to make YOU feel more comfortable, this is not for you DD benefit. Have you thought though how your decision to make YOU feel happier will effect her?

People like the op wonder if people like my (male) oh become primary school teachers....

And good point, Mrs Devere, although no school I've worked in would eye roll at all about genuine, serious reasons. We had a kid in witness protection once, of course everyone understood and was super careful.

I've said no to my DC photo appearing on any outside newsletters/websites etc b(but fine for him to be photo'd by CM and for her to display/put it on the printed newsletter for various reasons. I'll be making that same choice at his junior school.

I'd be pretty pissed if that choice meant he couldn't then be part of any clubs/teams unless it had been really clear that that what withdrawing my consent meant. I don't mind his photo being taken but until he's older I am not happy with it.

Didn't finish first sentence, I meant to add "because they have sinister motivations"

Your DD will not be in the choir if you insist on her photo not being taken.

Schools like to ensure their profile is out there to encourage other parents to send their kids. That means photos showcasing the school's students.

And if the choir is off the school premises you will have NO control of any photos taken, as the choir will be in a public place, and anyone in the public will be able to take photos if they wish.

MrsDV - I like to think that all most some HT's can sort the wheat from the chaff.

'I'm not happy with it being put on the Internet' that should read.

So basically your dd is friends with an 11 year old whose parent is a convicted paedophile. You don't know where this child lives or with whom but you do know that the paedophile receives the school newsletter via email. So you don't want your dd photographed.

Agree with mrsdevere

you seem to be projecting alot of intent and motivation onto what the teacher 'did'....i really think you need to find out from the teacher, what she said and how..

I really don't agree that children should be excluded from clubs if parents don't agree to them being photographed

Social services dictate that our FC cannot be photographed for their own safety, it's not then entirely fair for them to be excluded from things they enjoy.

to be fair to OP, she hasnt explained her reasons for not wanting the photographs..

No I wouldn't mind. I have an 11 yo who spends a lot of time in dance and gym leotards and a 14 yo who is often to be found in a high legged very tight swimming costume.

On occasions, when they are preforming or getting certificates people take pictures. I'm certainly not going to worry about it.

I think it is different when there is proper reasons Freddie, and then things should be worked to ensure the child doesn't miss.

However, slightly off topic in the case where a child is fostered because of abuse would they be allowed to take part in a school choir singing in a local shopping centre?

If their choir is asked to sing carols to the Mayor outside the town hall should they insist that everybody watching can't take a photo? Should they turn down the request so everybody misses out?

If the choir is singing ourside the town hall, they can't insist people don't take photos. It's a public place and anyone can take pics.

Takataka - have you posted on the wrong thread? The OP on this thread has listed several different reasons she isn't happy about it - she just can't decide which one it is that making her 'fucking fuming'.

I'm also curious as to why the OP refused to allow her DD to be photographed in her previous school(s). If the issue is the local pedophile who receives all the school emails (and how she knows this is another issue), what was the issue at the other school(s)? I know others have asked this question, I'm just repeating it for emphasis.

I think, the previous school didn't publish any photos (internet or newletters) - nothing to do with the OP. Well, at least that's what I took from what she said.

What KitchenandJumble said.

chipping she has talked about the convicted paedophile......i didnt take that to be her reason though? is it?

Well, I got the impression that it's "AIBU." General consensus, yes, apart from teacher (possibly) humiliating child. "I don't like that answer, so I'll use drip fed justifications"

I do think the school should respect parent's views. If they tick the 'no photos' box they shouldn't take photos. Or why have the box?

DS' school were pretty lax about his photos and I had to remind them several times. The trouble is if the information is not properly shared you do find yourself trying to quietly and quickly explain on the hop.

This can lead to this sort of thing

I think the issue is the OP seems a bit mixed up about her reasons. Does she
mind her DD wearing a crop top or just being photographed in it?

is just one of the things I am puzzled by

I agree, mrs Devere. But the op is very unclear in her reasons. If she just said, I think paedophiles are a huge fear and I'm scared of my daughter being in a photo whether reasonable or not, I'd think she was wrong, but respect her view.

Takataka - some of the options...

- She's protecting her child's privacy (in HER opinion, not her DD's)

- She thinks the school is not trustworthy - she considers publication of photos of children in their swimsuits/crop tops to be inappropriate. Even in the prostectus.

- She thinks the school will send the newsletter to the 'paedo father' of her daughters school friend.

- She thinks she should be obeyed without any discussion and the teacher should be hauled over the coals for discussing it with her daughter

- that's all I can think of for now...

chipping OP may have some history, which make any of those points more relevant...

I'm sure she would make something up tell us if that was the case

MrsDV - I agree, the school should respect the parents decision no matter how ridiculous the reason. However, I don't think there was anything wrong with the teacher calling to make sure that the form had been filled in correctly - so as not to exclude MiniMosman in error.

Apparently, had she known in advance she would have stopped the crop top wearing, as would other parents - amazingly she knows that & states that despite them being happy to have the photo put in the newspaper

MrsD I think if there are actual reasons for no photos and the parent/carer explains and doesn't expect their child to be stuck in a photo and then photoshopped out then teachers are very understanding.

It's just when faced with parents who are hysterical about other peoples children in cropped tops, who insist their child must be in the choir and no one can ever take pictures and is quite happily spouting off about a convicted sex offender that they actually know nothing about, 3 weeks after joining the school that they may be a little off

According to common local knowledge I have a daughter who'll be about 17 know (I don't), and a chap up the road tells people I'm French (I'm not) - more evidence of the dangers of common local knowledge.

now not know blush

You sound like the sort of parent who enjoys drama and attention at the expense of their child. Who looks for offence and uses a lot of school time, that could be used much more productively, because your need for special treatment is greater than your desire to help your child enjoy school life.

A more productive approach would be to ask for child's teacher for 10mins, explain your dd felt upset and what she'd told you ( it may be different to what actually happened) and ask if there might be a way she could join the choir or whatever even though she can't have her photo taken. Even if it means you going on trips, taking the photos and photoshopping her out. Because that's what you're asking for which is likely to be more than the school is resourced to provide.

I wouldn't have a problem with this, nor how the teacher told the class, and I think its fair enough your dd not being in the choir.

Apils if asked but would you allow dd to be photgraphed if she said she wanted to be?

Good job you're not Tom Daley's mother, you'd have had him diving behind a massive screen at Beijing and London so the world of evil paedos couldn't see him in his 'bathers'.

If it were down to your DD being looked after and concerns about her being tracked down, I'd understand. But I think you're being hysterical. There's every chance this 'convicted paedophile' will see her in the street or at pick up time - exactly how will banning her from photos help?

You are right that ticking 'no photos' should be adequate though, but I'd confirm exactly what was said to your daughter before going off at the deep end like Tom Daley

On the whole photos of a child dressed in a crop top or swimsuit will not turn a paedophile on, the kinds of images they want are freely available in the circles in which they move already.

Sirzy depends on the FC's circumstances. We have to get permission from Social Services for anything like that. Singing in a choir in a large shopping centre - probably not, outside our local co-op, probably yes. Not a blanket no, some they allow, some they don't, specially if it's something likely to appear in the local paper.

Is OP male or female?

If my kid was singing in the choir, and I wanted a photo of my child singing in that choir, I would bloody take one.

Are they singing naked? I very much doubt it.. so what on earth is the bloody issue with choir singing?

OP not clarifying reasons. Maybe we'll be told now that she's a vulnerable child, but OP forgot to mention it.

I'm sorry but I refuse to believe for one second that you let your dd play with the child of a convicted peeedo ! Also, you said you didn't know if it was the mum or dad? So who collects your dd's little friend ? Do you ever speak to them ?

A convicted peeedo would also not be allowed to still live with their child. Sorry but that's bollocks.

I.don't.believe. you.

You won't even let her wear a crop top, I can't see you being OK with her choice of friend. What if she wants to invite them over. Or go there !!!!!!

squeaky in Australia everyone sings naked. That weird wearing clothes thing is new over there

Barking mad.

Bonkers and paranoid

OP, what is your view about all the other parents who are perfectly happy to have their DCs photographed "in a state of undress"? If you're doing this to protect your DD, you must believe that the other parents are being negligent by not protecting their DC's safety and/or privacy? If it's common knowledge that a convicted peedo gets sent the school newsletter, why are all the other parents still happy to have their Dcs photographed?
What explanation have you given your DD for why she can't be photographed like all her friends? Because if it's just "because I say so", that isn't going to be adequate for an 11 year old.
We all want to protect our children but your whole attitude is seriously paranoid. What happens when your DD phones you to say that she's gone to a friend's house after school - are you going to charge round demanding a CRB check on the parents? What about when she goes on sleepovers?
You said that you'd be happy to have people you trust photo your DD - it's a sad fact that most abuse is perpetrated by people known and trusted by the child's family
If you carry on the way you are, you'll have a heart attack by the time your DD is 16 and you are doing everything right to have a massive rebellion on your hands in a few years time.

Where are you OP?

Crickey, I know of a Cat 1 sex offender being allowed to live with new baby & step children.

Op, you said it's nicer been an issue in previous schools. Were there peeedos there too?

Don't you think the bloke would be mote interested in the actual victims living with him than some strangers midriff?

You sound mad as a box of frogs tbh.

She's talking bollocks.

Dont believe her.

op - twelve pages ago - is your daughter in the photograph? if not, the school's system has worked. point out to your daughter that the other girls are immodestly displayed and that it is not acceptable in your opinion. write to the school and complain about the inappropriateness. then leave them all to get on with it.

You joined the school, got asked about photos and declined permission.

But the reason(s) you declined permission are contradictory make no sense - you said, firstly, it was because you looked at the prospectus and didn't like the images you saw of girls in swimsuits etc. But then you later drip feed that your decision was due to playground gossip about a parent.

Surely you wouldn't know the second piece of 'info' until after you started your DD at the school? Which contradicts your first point

Did you settle in Mosman, Mosman?

The photos wouldn't bother me particularly tbh. Not sure why you are concerned about the photos if your DD is not in them.

No the teacher should not have mentioned this in assembly to/about your DD. They could have spoken to her quietly before or after instead and just told her that she couldn't be included in the photographs.

Is the school band/choir regularly photographed because of where they perform? Is this why she couldn't be included?

We have one child in school who isn't allowed to be photographed by parent request. If I am doing a group shot I ask her to come and stand by me whilst I take the photo. I don't send her on a pretend errand or mess about putting her at the end and then cropping - I don't always have the time for faffing about later on on photoshop or whatever. I would never comment out loud about why toother children. I assume the child knows and I just dont take their picture.

Schools are encourages to photograph "in action" shots. They help provide evidence of the learning a child does.

Do you have a no photograph at all ever rule then?

Not come across that. Every child in our school is always photographed in the classroom/at sports days/ in action etc. It is only for the whole publishing thing we have the permission slips.

What a long thread

But yes in happy for pics of dd in a crop top to be posted on the Internet.

In fact I put one of her on there myself last year when she was 10 in panto with an ex soap actor. It was Aladdin. The crop top costume was her favourite.

I think it is quite sad that the child will have no photographs of herself to look back on in later years.

I have photos of when I was in school plays, swimming teams, doing my dance routines, church parades and carnvals in our town (how would you police that one OP?)

As for the joining thing.

A local theatre holds a performing arts festival every year. Dance schools, theatre groups, primary schools & secondary schools are invited to take part. It is a condition of taking part that parents have to agree to photos and videos.

So it would be pointless joining the dance club if they can't actually perform.

Right, I have struggled through to the end of this looking for the answer to one question - why is an 11yr old in Yr 5?

Either the OP is a little muddled or...

Oh, and I pretty much agree with everyone else about the rest of it. YPMYSLAA.

We are in Australia my child is actually 10 most of the other children are 11, my 12 year old is in year 6 here.

I have decided I'll sit back and wait and see if the choir and band become an issue and deal with that if it becomes an issue.

Thanks again for the comments.

I think Mosman lives in Australia so years might be different there?

I can completely understand why some people are concerned about photos on the internet as we have no idea what technology will allow in a few years time (at the moment facial recognition is not great, but it's only a matter of time). However I think the "peedo" fear is actually the least worrying for the reasons already cited- surely of more concern would be the possibility that with a single photo of you, someone could pull up every other photo of you ever uploaded?

BUT, let's think about this. The 11 year old will be on FB in a couple of years, if she's not already. From what I can tell, teenagers spend most of those years taking photos of themselves doing stupid things/being drunk/in their pants/ pretending to smoke massive reefers/ actually smoking massive reefers and uploading them. This ends some time around graduation when they realise they might want to be employable one day. I imagine a photo of said graduate as an 11yr old in a dance show might pale into insignificance compared to what will get uploaded over the next decade.

Ah, thank-you.

I still think, even though it's your opinion and you are allowed to voice it, looking for validation on here is... well, as I said before, YPMYSLAA .

HTH

I have no clue what that stands for :-)

I don't think you are being unreasonable to be p*ssed off. You have been completely ignored and it's out of order.

However... I think you are being previous about the 'cropped top'. It's hardly provocative on a child doing a gym routine. I can understand them double checking with you, I haven't been able to record any of my DD's nativity or school plays because two parents in her year have refused to sign the forms. I fully understand when it is because of child protection issues, ie, they could be traced by family that could cause them harm, but if I found out it was because they were just being precious I would be disappointed.

Yanbu not wanting your dc photographed.
School are not handling it well -there are children at ds's school who are fostered and legally cannot be photographed - they join in all the activities and are just moved out of the way when photos are taken. No fuss is made at all.

I've just seen that you live in Australia, op. How on earth do you manage in summer, and have you any idea how many other people's holiday snaps your dc's probably feature in (which have undoubtably been uploaded to the Internet) wearing far less than a crop top?

My DC's are never in public without their clothes I hate the beach as do they and we have a pool so no issues there.
The school have decided to make her class photographer which I think is a marvellous solution. DD is delighted.

The school have decided to make her class photographer

I also think that is a fantastic solution - actually i think that would give me confidence that the school are doing a good job.

Better late than never I guess

Er, no. They were always doing a good job, by keeping her out of the pictures, as you requested.

To attempt to vindicate your position by suggesting they are only doing a good job now is extremely disingenuous.

Id be a bit worried that she is way too conscious if you live in Oz and she never appears in public in anything approaching a crop top to be honest. Id be concerned that my attitude has rubbed off.

However that seems like a more than reasonable solution from the school so thats good.

I think you do need to calm it a tad to be honest.

Crop tops are clothes too, aren't they?