To not want a minute by minute account of Kate's pregnancy and little sympathy for her.

(512 Posts)
babbas Mon 03-Dec-12 21:15:03

She's rich, she has all the support in the world and will have no cooking, cleaning, vocational work or responsibilities. I really really really do not want to have daily updates on her condition or her pregnancy for the next nine months! It's so typical of everything she stands for that they have already announced she will have to be on rest for the foreseeable future. As opposed to doing what exactly??!

My best friend had HG and lost a stone in 8 days. She went to hospital and was told to pull her herself together as most women had morning sickness. No time off work, no help whatsoever.

FanjoTimeMammariesAndWine Mon 03-Dec-12 21:16:15

Just because your friend was treated badly doesnt mean you should wish it on others. YABU

squeakytoy Mon 03-Dec-12 21:16:57

Was your best friend carrying the heir to the throne?


kim147 Mon 03-Dec-12 21:17:13

I'm no fan of the Monarchy and I was a bit pissed off it was the main news today. But that's the world we live in.

I hope she's ok and I really hope she has no issues. Please let the media just leave them alone until the birth. And I really hope the media just leaves her alone afterwards.

mrskeithrichards Mon 03-Dec-12 21:17:37

Oh don't be so bloody bitter

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Mon 03-Dec-12 21:17:43

The experience of your friend has nothing to do with Wills and Kate having their baby.

You can be pleased about the news of a new heir to the throne at the same time as being pissed off about maternity care.

nokidshere Mon 03-Dec-12 21:18:02

My best friend had HG and lost a stone in 8 days. She went to hospital and was told to pull her herself together as most women had morning sickness. No time off work, no help whatsoever.

I think that your friend just had a crap medical person!!! I was treated very well when I was constantly sick throughout my pregnancy. I was never told that I was being silly or to pull myself together.

As for Kate - it is what it is. Like all news you can choose to ignore it if you dont want to see it.

ImperialSantaKnickers Mon 03-Dec-12 21:18:12

Don't mix the person up with the role babbas.

Pancakeflipper Mon 03-Dec-12 21:18:39

Bit harsh Babbas.

I am not particulary looking forward to media updates (ooh look at that maternity dress !) etc but I certainly do have sympathy for any pregnant woman having a tough time of it. Money cannot buy you a healthy pregnancy.

MikeLitorisHasChristmasLights Mon 03-Dec-12 21:18:40

Dont be so ridiculous.

Anyone with HG deserves sympathy. Its not her fault your friend had crap support from her doc.

I'm not exactly thrilled at the prospect of endless news stories on this but is there really any need to post such a spiteful thread?

expatinscotland Mon 03-Dec-12 21:18:46

I can't say I'm really bothered.

MrsChristmasVamos Mon 03-Dec-12 21:19:07

YABUnreasonable and unseasonable.

She is also very newly pregnant with her 1st baby and probably terrified. Have some empathy. She has no control over what the media report on.

Being pregnant can be a very scary, worrying time as well as a very happy time for some people.

MoreFrontThanBrighton Mon 03-Dec-12 21:19:14

I don't think being rich will make her feel any less shit as she vomits constantly.

degutastic Mon 03-Dec-12 21:20:00

* Please let the media just leave them alone until the birth. And I really hope the media just leaves her alone afterwards.*

Seconded - within reason, in that the country should be concerned to an extent with the wellbeing of the future heir to the throne, and in the non-invasive side of the media etc.

TwitchyTail Mon 03-Dec-12 21:20:22

I have sympathy for her currently as HG is utterly miserable. All the money in the world doesn't help when you've got your head stuck down the toilet all day. Your friend was treated badly and that is sad, but it doesn't mean that should be the norm for women.

But I too don't want to read minute by minute fawning accounts. It will be news again when the baby is born.

mellowcat Mon 03-Dec-12 21:20:30

I personally would hate to be ill and worried and in the media spotlight. They should be left in peace to get on with things.

It's hardly Kate's fault that the press will follow her, and report her every fart for the rest of her life. The poor thing will be scrutinised and photographed, and every pound in weight, or bite of food, or frown, will be reported round the world. Then after she gives birth, every aspect of their parenting will be discussed ad nauseum, and her weight and figure, and what she wears and so on forever.
I just wish her a safe and happy pregnancy, a beautiful healthy baby, and a bit of peace in which to raise it.

babbas Mon 03-Dec-12 21:21:43

Obviously I hope she recovers quickly. I don't wish HG on her or anyone. But please, it's hard to ignore when it's headline news everywhere!

HairyGrotter Mon 03-Dec-12 21:21:47

It's going to be a looooooong pregnancy, poor thing. I was miserable during pregnancy and I didn't have the media on my case (because I'm a nobody grin thankfully)

somuchslimmernow Mon 03-Dec-12 21:21:53

You dont want a minute by minute update about her pregnancy, yet you start a (spiteful) thread about her! Bizarre.

She does have responsibilities and in all probablity public engagements booke dthat may now be cancelled. I don't think we need to know about every second the pregnancy but I think saying you have no sympathy for a poorly pregnant woman is really vile actually. Why so bitter?
Your friend had terrible treatment btw. I hope you at least showed her some sympathy.

PuppyMonkey Mon 03-Dec-12 21:21:59

Was your friend carrying the heir to the throne? grin

HollyBerryBush Mon 03-Dec-12 21:22:04

iIn all my years I have only ever met one person with real HG that was hospitalised.

But they all collect on MN, amazingly well enough to get their heads off the pillow and out of the toilet bowl and keep typing updates about how ill they are. When I had MN (just plain old MN) it was a stuggle to keep afloat let alone broadcast continuously with the woe-is-me updates.

Less than 1/2 percent of pregnancies have HG - but they all post here.

PuppyMonkey Mon 03-Dec-12 21:23:07

That was me laughing at someone who said that earlier - not me laughing at me saying it. Iykwim

roooibos Mon 03-Dec-12 21:23:17

I have sympathy for the poor girl but....I'm bored of hearing about it already.

And you can spare me the royalist faux shock at me saying that! It's not da law to like the royals, you know!

BOFingSanta Mon 03-Dec-12 21:23:30

She's worked quite hard for a rich lass lately, hasn't she? Cheering up the plebs and whatnot. You can hardly begrudge her decent medical care, and I daresay she isn't relishing the prospect of several months of scrutiny. YABU and rather unpleasant- you don't have to be a royalist to have a bit of sympathy for someone just on a human level. She's not the Antichrist.

Themobstersknife Mon 03-Dec-12 21:23:33

Blimey that's harsh! I am no royalist but put your human hat on! This is a young couple, expecting their first baby, having to announce to the whole world way before they probably wanted to because she is in hospital feeling very poorly. He has lost his mum in very tragic and public circumstances yet his mum is probaby the person he needs most in the world right now. Yes they have some advantages in life, but they are still two people going through the most exciting, scary, daunting thing, with the eyes of the world on them. And people like you being horrid and bitter towards them. Its not all about money and privelege you know. I have by no means had a great experience with maternity services but it doesn't mean I have to be harsh and unkind.

TigerFeet Mon 03-Dec-12 21:24:07

I'm not overly bothered about her pregnancy tbh although I wish her well in the same way as I would wish anyone well.

I do have sympathy for her HG though, I had it and it was grim beyond words. I'm not rich or titled but I did get good care, didn't stop me from feeling like I'd actually rather die than feel like I did for a day longer.

Have a bit of empathy OP, your friend had a bad experience and that's not fair but that shouldn't make anyone wish the same on someone else.

WHo knows, maybe Kate's HG will raise awareness and lead to other women getting better care in the future? Let's hope so, eh?

Greensleeves Mon 03-Dec-12 21:24:23

I don't get all this "heir to the throne" nonsense. Who gives a flying fuck.

But I do have sympathy for any woman having a difficult pregnancy. Even if she is an inbred parasitical dimwit with tons of loot.

Viviennemary Mon 03-Dec-12 21:24:51

I am not a royalist. And there will be a minute by minute account and articles galore and speculation galore. I don't dislike Kate and wish her a speedy recovery from this condition.

mrskeithrichards Mon 03-Dec-12 21:25:05

I thought it was one in 50?

EdithWeston Mon 03-Dec-12 21:25:14

It must be hellish enough to have HG, without having to announce it, and your pregnancy, to the whole world because the press will come up with sheds loads of potentially far more distressing speculation if you don't.

She may be just as ill as your friend, and yes she is more fortunate to secure excellent medical attention from the off. But I hope this will lead to others unfortunate enough to suffer HG receiving better care and less scepticism from HCPs.

babbas Mon 03-Dec-12 21:25:27

Why is it spiteful to not have sympathy for a rich pampered princess? I am not sympathetic to her, but I don't spite her.

BOFingSanta Mon 03-Dec-12 21:26:29

She's not inbred either, tbf, Greeny. Peasant stock in comparison to most of them.

AllSnowballsAndNoKnickers Mon 03-Dec-12 21:27:25

Even if she is an inbred parasitical dimwit with tons of loot

Nice. You sound like a proper charmer.

roooibos Mon 03-Dec-12 21:27:52

Off with your head, op.

Pontouf Mon 03-Dec-12 21:27:57

I feel for any woman who suffers with HG. I had it with my 1st pregnancy and have never felt so I'll in my life. There were times when I was truly very depressed. Especially as it can go on for so bloody long.

If you don't wnt to read daily updates of her condition/ongoing pregnancy.... er..... don't read them? I honestly get by really well by not reading the Daily Mail, any of the tabloids or "celebrity" magazines and find that most of the minutiae of the royals/beckhams/karsashians etc's lives completely pass me by!

mcmooncup Mon 03-Dec-12 21:28:42

Shows what I know, I heard on the news that she had been hospitalised for bad morning sickness and I had never ever heard that this was possible, I thought it was a crap joke/weird excuse to cover up some truth.

Although I threw up in my car while driving on a motorway and passing a sewerage farm when I was pregnant and I needed hospitalising after that trauma.

seeker Mon 03-Dec-12 21:29:09

She's now a "precious vessel"grin

And no, I'm not hqppy about a new heir to the throne. I am happy about a new baby, though, whoever has it, because I am completely dotty about babies!

ImperialSantaKnickers Mon 03-Dec-12 21:29:09

How many of us chose to tell the world at 8 weeks? I'm damn certain this news would have stayed under wraps until well into next year if the poor woman wasn't being so sick the Firm decided it was better to announce than to allow feverish speculation. Hope she and everyone else having a shit time in pregnancy feels better soon.

McChristmasPants2012 Mon 03-Dec-12 21:29:19

she has all the support in the world and will have no cooking, cleaning, vocational work or responsibilities.

It nice you know her so well that you know all of this.

Pancakeflipper Mon 03-Dec-12 21:29:32

Oh Babbas. Just drop it.
At least the pretty princess might make sure that this condition is better understood and this may mean much more help for those needing it. Look for the positives and don't look at the Daily Mail website for the next year

roooibos Mon 03-Dec-12 21:29:52

I'm not avoiding the news for the next few months because of it! How bizarre.

AllSnowballsAndNoKnickers Mon 03-Dec-12 21:29:59

babbas you're just talking shit now. One doesn't 'spite' another person. God there's some nastiness on this thread - as on any thread that dares make mention of anything to do with the Royals. Do you people really have to sound so fucking mealy mouthed and mean? Could you just not comment? Or say - 'Oh it's not for me' or whatever? But no - you have to spew your bile against people you don't know and never will. Fucking disgraceful behaviour.

theboutiquemummy Mon 03-Dec-12 21:30:31

I dont want the constant update either so i'll not be listening, watching or reading but having had severe morning sickness and little or no help from medical professionals, If she has it then I really do feel for her

HEir to the throne,
kate is going to be exceptionally well looked after for the pregnancy. I am sure

I'm with you OP.

Pointless posh bint having baby with pointless posh twit to further the family line of a bunch of pointless inbreds.


HumphreyCobbler Mon 03-Dec-12 21:32:42

"iIn all my years I have only ever met one person with real HG that was hospitalised.

But they all collect on MN, amazingly well enough to get their heads off the pillow and out of the toilet bowl and keep typing updates about how ill they are. When I had MN (just plain old MN) it was a stuggle to keep afloat let alone broadcast continuously with the woe-is-me updates.

Less than 1/2 percent of pregnancies have HG - but they all post here."

You sound so disbelieving? Surely it is not surprising that there are a fair few HE sufferers on a site as big as this? Bully for you for carrying on with bad morning sickness, I had bad sickness too but I was still able to work. Which meant I didn't have HE.

I really really really do not want to have daily updates on her condition or her pregnancy for the next nine months - will the palace send a butler to hunt you down and force you to listen to the progress of her pregnancy? confused

YABU not to have sympathy, she is still a young woman who is suffering from something bloody awful while pregnant with her first child. She will be worried and scared and concerned about her baby. Money won't change that.

Pantofino Mon 03-Dec-12 21:33:33

So you wish a fellow human being, a fellow woman, illness and a shit pregnancy because she happens to have more more money than you?

roooibos Mon 03-Dec-12 21:33:39

Oh quit with the naughty hand slapping, snowballs!

Pickles101 Mon 03-Dec-12 21:34:09

YAB a bit U towards Kate (personally I just don't give a crap), but I sympathise with your poor friend.
Although, I read this quote earlier, "couple forced to reveal pregnancy early because Kate is hospitalised" and I feel like that is most likely total bullshit

I'm not pregnant now Holly. When I was, I couldn't have posted on MN. I was too busy trying not to vomit up all my internal organs. In the hospital. MN has a huge membership, it makes perfect sense that some of us would have suffered with HG. I have only met 2 other people in RL with HG.

TigerFeet Mon 03-Dec-12 21:34:12

I had to tell rl people, including work, that I was pregnant at around 7 weeks because I was almost completely incapacitated. I wasn't happy about it but couldn't come up with a plausible reason as to why I had to drive with a plastic bag in my lap, had to stop and be sick in the gutter in public, had to take weeks at a time off work etc etc. I'd have hated to have had to include the entire world's press in the list of people who had to know what was going on.

SaggyOldClothCatPuss Mon 03-Dec-12 21:34:42

Is this weeks theme for MN "A total lack of sympathy for"...? Three threads so far today! confused

Hollyberrybush - why not say it plain? You think every nearly every woman on Mnet with HG is attention seeking do you? Thank your lucky stars they aren't close enough to vomit in your shoes. Then you'd know how genuine they are alright.

Sympathy is the only appropriate response to news of morning sickness. Anything else is just cruel and rude.

HumphreyCobbler Mon 03-Dec-12 21:35:24

I know about three people who had it. It is not that rare.

HoneyDragon Mon 03-Dec-12 21:35:41

Wow....thrilled that so many people on this threads are experts on HG based on knowing ONE person in there lives who was really ill and knew exactly what that ONE person was doing every hour for the 9 months of their pg hmm

Arthurfowlersallotment Mon 03-Dec-12 21:36:30

I had HG, but I didn't post on MN as I was too busy puking. It's also fucked my tooth enamel. The intermittent waves of greasy nausea I had for the entire third trimester was positively joyous in comparison.

So I feel sorry for her.

BendyBobsBrusselsSprouts Mon 03-Dec-12 21:36:35

Blimey I had it. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. At least I could throw up in peace. Poor Kate will have cameras trying to catch her feeling greensad Daily updates are inevitable. I'm sure there will be many times to come she'd prefer not to have to share this with the whole world too, good and bad bits.

You're right in that she'll be well treated and doesn't have all the mundane stuff to cope with ordinary people do. But I bet there are downsides and anyway some people live privileged lives. Being bitter about them won't change that and they seem basically decent people who haven't hurt anyone and are trying to modernise the monarchy.

Pantofino Mon 03-Dec-12 21:37:40

I spent weeks on the ante-natal ward with many women suffering HG, SPD, pre-eclampsia, incompetent cervix etc etc. It was a lesson to me that not everyone goes through pregnancy "glowing"'

BluelightsAndSirens Mon 03-Dec-12 21:38:25

How lovely. Another women, soon to be mother is suffering and because she is fortunate to have more than most/many you cba to have any sympathy for her!

AllSnowballsAndNoKnickers Mon 03-Dec-12 21:38:27

Well said Bendy

TigerFeet Mon 03-Dec-12 21:39:41

*iIn all my years I have only ever met one person with real HG that was hospitalised.

But they all collect on MN, amazingly well enough to get their heads off the pillow and out of the toilet bowl and keep typing updates about how ill they are. When I had MN (just plain old MN) it was a stuggle to keep afloat let alone broadcast continuously with the woe-is-me updates.

Less than 1/2 percent of pregnancies have HG - but they all post here.*

Is it really so difficult to understand why someone who is having a hideous time would look online to find others in the same boat? There was a HG support thread on here when I was pg which was a lifeline, due to the fact that it wasn't full of people who assumed we were moaning because we felt a lickle bit poorly.

babbas Mon 03-Dec-12 21:40:30

My first aibu post. Scary stuff!!! Off back to the Food board!!

kim147 Mon 03-Dec-12 21:40:35

I do wonder where she will get support from to share how she's feeling.

harryhausen Mon 03-Dec-12 21:40:49

Not much to add, but just wanted to say that yes Kate has no money worried but she def isn't overly pampered.

I come from Anglesey and my cousin has seen her a few times in Waitrosegrin. Kate and William also went to see Skyfall in Llandudno without any fuss or huge entourage.

I don't particularly want to know her every pregnant move, but it's easy to ignore. Poor woman must feel god awful, and I feel really bad for them that they've had to announce it early. That would worry me.

Harsh OP.

Mu1berries Mon 03-Dec-12 21:42:41

I don't feel any worse for her than anybody else, but still it's no picnic is it!?

royal or not, if you get a cracking headache you still can't take two nurofen and a paracetomol chaser ...

PinkFairyDust Mon 03-Dec-12 21:42:45

Pointless posh bint having baby with pointless posh twit to further the family line of a bunch of pointless inbreds

Seriously?!! Sounds like green eyes monster to me!

Leave Kate alone, she is no doubt scared and I doubt they wanted to tell anyone apart from family but were forced too due to her being in hospital.

actually i also feel sorry for her regarding the press intrusion. brief look on the sky news website to see all the media vans and whatnot.
my god

MsElleTow Mon 03-Dec-12 21:43:12

I feel really sorry for her.

I still have severe SPD 16+ years after DS2 was born. If she developed that, I wouldn't think, "tough shit, you've got more money than me and better health care" I'd have every sympathy for her!

lunar1 Mon 03-Dec-12 21:43:15

Wow your nasty, i had it for my entire first pregnancy. I have every sympathy for anyone suffering from this condition. part of me hopes that with Kate having it she might help in the future with her charity work to improve treatment for all women suffering from this.

What a load of bollocks is being spouted on here tonight.

Do you really think that carrying the heir, being waited on hand and foot blah blah makes one shite of difference to how grim she is feeling if it is HG? Do you think it makes her less shit scared about the whole thing than any other first time mother?

HollyBerryBush Mon 03-Dec-12 21:45:07

Ah grin I love this forum, all it's sisterly togetherness. When in fact it is anything but.

The sanctimonious jealousy that pervades, creepings it's dark fingers round is just amazing to watch.

She's prettier than you
She's better educated than you
She's married better than you (the fact shes married is a bonus TBH)
She's happier than you

and the knives come out.

Mu1berries Mon 03-Dec-12 21:45:54

and if she posted anonymously on mn she'd get sympathy. so therefore, in the future, before giving anybody any sympathy are we going to say hang on wait are your 1) rich? 2) famous? 3) working full time or part time wink

jayzuss, i'm irish and i'll hold her bucket (not for long like coz i'm busy you know) but good luck to her. hated being pregnant. the headaches, omg the headaches. 9 months of headaches, TWICE

44SoStartingOver Mon 03-Dec-12 21:46:54

Going off at a bit of a tangent, was hg the reason women were prescribed thalidomide back in the sixties?

I had bog standard ms which was tedious, so I can only sympathise. Is the treatment just symptom control? I guess there must be huge reluctance to take any drug that could possibly be managed without during pregnancy.

However, it is pretty damn obvious that the duchess is going to have an easier time than an ordinary mum, one with children already, or was coping as a single mum, or in poverty, even if their condition is otherwise identical. Possibly balanced out by press intrusion?

She does not have a lot of surplus weight to lose though, she is going to become very thin pretty quickly. Do they just hydrate or try to provide nutrition as well?

ajandjjmum Mon 03-Dec-12 21:46:56

Hardly a dimwit with a degree from St. Andrews.

Hope she feels better soon - and although I know it won't happen, that she gets some peace to enjoy her pregnancy and new baby.

Yes Pink you're right.

I covet the life of a woman whose every move/outfit/strand of hair is public property and up for scrutiny.

Who is obsessed over by little flag waving saddos who think they know her.

Who is essentially a walking womb with a naice hairdo.

Who has to live by the rules of an outdated world and has no real freedom.

Jealous of her clothing budget. That's about it.

BendyBobsBrusselsSprouts Mon 03-Dec-12 21:48:06

'I do wonder where she will get support from to share how she's feeling.' Lets hope she doesn't see some of the comments on heresad

She isn't better educated than me.
And if everything I understand about HG is even halfway true, she's not happier than me either.

I do feel sorry for her. Not least because she is bound to have wanted to keep it to herself till after her first scan.

Mu1berries Mon 03-Dec-12 21:50:37

BUNNY, "she is basically a womb with naice hair" you could say that about any wife then. She wants a child herself I'd say. does that make any mother to be a womb? or just a rich famous titled mother /wife confused

Greensleeves Mon 03-Dec-12 21:50:55

she isn't more educated than me, and I doubt she's happier... and "married better" doesn't mean anything outside Catherine Cookson novels

she is prettier than me though grin

I can't stand any of them. They're not an irrelevance to me, they're an actively bad thing and I would welcome their immediate removal.

I wouldn't wish hyperemesis or any other kind of bad pregnancy on her. But I don't care any more about her than the woman next door to me who has SPD and is on crutches with 3 boys with ASD and no money. And I find the sycophantic comments about "carrying the heir to the throne" fascinating in a sort of "wow are there still people who worship the sun" way.

Morloth Mon 03-Dec-12 21:51:07

I don't really understand the bitterness towards this woman.

She hasn't done anything actually offensive has she?

I have no idea what she is like, never met her, she doesn't appear to do anything wrong and she still seems to rile people.

There isn't enough money in the world that would see me famous, I like money a lot but fame just looks like a royal (see what I did there) PITA.

What do people actually want from her? All she has done is marry the man she (I assume) loves, why is that such a problem?

judefawley Mon 03-Dec-12 21:51:52

Like most people I know, I have very little interest in the royals, but I wish them well.

I have a friend that spent 3 pregnancies in hospital with HG, it was a dreadful time for her.

She's definitely prettier than me though!

Wow, OP, bitter much?

I dunno, Morloth. I am as befuddled as you. I have been on these threads talking about HG, because it made me hideously isolated in my experience at the time and it's cathartic to talk to other sufferers. I have immense sympathy for anyone having their pregnancy overshadowed by illness.

KenLeeeeeee Mon 03-Dec-12 21:54:25

I don't give a shiny shit who she is or how much money she has. She's suffering with a horrible condition, under intense media scrutiny AND trying to enjoy her first pregnancy. For that she has my absolute sympathy.

YABU, and really nasty to boot.

kim147 Mon 03-Dec-12 21:58:05

See - I think she would get some really good advice on here about things. But she couldn't post. Somehow it would leak out and then what she writes would get out.

How the hell do you live a life where most things you do are scrutinised and you have little privacy? Who do you trust to get support? Who can you just complain or whinge to?

Mu1berries Mon 03-Dec-12 21:58:48

Morloth, good queston, what do people want from her!? confused

boschy Mon 03-Dec-12 22:02:21

Gosh, some of this is just vile. Poor woman, she feels like shit, is probably terrified, has had to announce her pregnancy much earlier than she might have chosen to, and if all goes well will spend the next 30 weeks with papparazzi waiting for her to throw up left right and centre.

I really hope she gets the best medical treatment (as should any other woman in the same condition) and a bit of peace and quiet.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Mon 03-Dec-12 22:03:35

Well you better get your head around it because it will be in the news everyday.

Shoot me. I like the royal family.

ReallyTired Mon 03-Dec-12 22:04:03

I feel sorry for anyone with HG. Its not normal morning sickness.

Kate is in hospital because HG is a life threatening condition. She is probably on a drip and feeling wretched.

"My best friend had HG and lost a stone in 8 days. She went to hospital and was told to pull her herself together as most women had morning sickness. No time off work, no help whatsoever."

In the politest way possible, I might suggest that your best friend just had normal morning sickness rather than HG. Perhaps the reason the hospital sent her home was that her life was not at risk. People with HG problems with excessive ketones in the blood and they get very underweight. It really is a serious condition. It is not just puking up four times a day.

There is no way that a woman with proper HG would be able to go work.

I had the same thing, and was meant to be a minor witness in court (was outside a cafe when a girl was attacked by her ex). I had moved from Kent to Berkshire (2+ hours by train) and had no car. I couldnt move to pee without having to be violently sick.
I had to get a sicknote from my GP for the court to be satisfied I really couldnt get there.
GP refused to just speak on the phone to me, insisted I come to her which I did while puking the whole way and wobbling.
Anyway, I got there, and after all that she refused to give me a note for the court, told me I was hardly the first to feel "peaky" and went on about how if I associated with nicer people I wouldnt be in court (no idea why she thought that, I was outside waiting for a friend, didnt know who the victim or attacker were, and wasn't the star witness).
Luckily, dsil rang the court and explained, who warned I could get myself arrested, it was up to the presiding Judge, but thankfully he was fine.
So, no, not everyone has the same attention as Kate, but I bet most private patients have that experience. I wish her better as it was awful, and going from a pregnancy with no sickness with dd 11 months before, it was horrific, and marked the beginning of an awful 6 months where ds ended up being born at 28 weeks. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, however their pregnancy developes, or whoever they are.

Pantofino Mon 03-Dec-12 22:04:32

Cor - when I chat to my dd about what to avoid in BF material, remind me to mention that they must never be in line to the English that way madness lies....

McChristmasPants2012 Mon 03-Dec-12 22:05:58

Morloth i belive it is down to people being jealous of her.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Mon 03-Dec-12 22:09:32

What's not to like?

Alliwantisaroomsomewhere Mon 03-Dec-12 22:10:58

She is priviliged beyond belief so there is no doubt that every thing will be at her beck and call. "Carrying the heir to the throne". So fucking what!!

It is only by birth that the Windsors are where they are. And all their hangers on.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Mon 03-Dec-12 22:13:03

"She's prettier than you
She's better educated than you
She's married better than you (the fact shes married is a bonus TBH)
She's happier than you"

unless you actually know the person you're directing it to (and if you do I'd advise the purchase of some armoured clothing) that's a very strange post. Better educated is a bit odd in particular - there will be tons of people here much better educated than Kate Middleton.

Yellowtip Mon 03-Dec-12 22:13:57

I don't quite get how she wolfed down roast beef and rice krispie pud a couple of days ago at her old prep. We don't actually know this isn't yet another fading royalty pr stunt.

And yes, I've been there, done that btw. I just find her utterly pointless, 'carrying the heir' or not. Uninteresting and rather rodentine.

ReallyTired Mon 03-Dec-12 22:18:43

HG is far more serious than constant puking. Kate's is in hospital because she has a very serious life threatening condition. I imagine she is in hospital because her blood chemistry is messed up and she is seriously underweight from all the vomiting. She is probably on a glucose drip to keep her alive.

I think the problem with morning sickness is there is such a variation of how women suffer. HG is really the extreme end that most people have never witnessed.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Mon 03-Dec-12 22:19:18

You find her utterly pointless? What an pov.

I'm sure she feels the same about you.

Pantofino Mon 03-Dec-12 22:21:29

She is a human being - how can she be "utterly pointless"?

Pantofino Mon 03-Dec-12 22:24:54

Yellowtip - maybe you could list the notable activities that have done in the last month, and we could compare.....

Yellowtip Mon 03-Dec-12 22:27:56

Everlong that's an utterly pointless comment.

Kate is utterly pointless: hanging around, supine for 10 years, unavailable for work so that she could 'be there' for Will? Just so pointless and dim.

And that list about prettier, better educated etc. Where did that come from?!!

The pr machine is so hmm these days that I wouldn't believe anything it puts out tbh. Most likely she's just being a little bit sick. So she gets all princessy.

Alliwantisaroomsomewhere Mon 03-Dec-12 22:28:59

Who actually KNOWS that it reallly is full on horrendous HG?

Pantofino Mon 03-Dec-12 22:31:03

Go the sisterhood hmm

Yellowtip Mon 03-Dec-12 22:31:16

I've done a lot more than play hockey for two minutes in high heels and a silly tartan coat and wolfed down roast beef and krispie tart, that's for sure.

If you're so keen, please explain what her point is? Enlighten me do.

Alliwantisaroomsomewhere Mon 03-Dec-12 22:33:30

Sisterhood Shmisterhood.

Privilege and money outranks any bloody 'hood!

jidelgin Mon 03-Dec-12 22:33:35

I'm firmly in your camp OP.
What do people want from her? Hmm, she could stand to lose the heavy black kohl rimming her eyes and she could either a) pay to park or b) pay the fine (although perhaps that doesn't apply any more if she is no longer zipping around town in her Audi)
tee hee

AfterEightMintyy Mon 03-Dec-12 22:35:32

I have every sympathy for her. She must be feeling absolutely dreadful. Poor poor woman and all others who suffer with this horrible side-effect.

noviceoftheday Mon 03-Dec-12 22:36:20

You sound delightful OP hmm

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Mon 03-Dec-12 22:38:15

Pointless? What to you yellow? yeah because your pov matters hmm

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Mon 03-Dec-12 22:38:40

Perhaps she will become pointful once the baby is born by helping to normalise breastfeeding by feeding her baby when out and about? Whether we like it or not, there are lots of people out there who are very silly indeed, and if she did this it probably would alter their opinions on this subject.

HarderToKidnap Mon 03-Dec-12 22:41:04

Yellowtip, your posts are vile. Really, really callous. The point of her is the same as the point of anyone, her inherent worth as a human being. People don't have to achieve x amount per week to have a point to them. Your viewpoint is extremely strange. Do you usually have problems identifying with and empathising with others?

IShallCallYouSquishy Mon 03-Dec-12 22:42:51

The poor woman is having a shitter of a pregnancy so far and I have upmost sympathy for anyone going through HG. I hardly think she is vomming up diamonds OP, and doubt she wants the world and its dog knowing the ins and outs of her knelt over a loo chucking her guts up. She's a newly pregnant first time mum and like others have said, probably scared and worried.


EnjoyResponsibly Mon 03-Dec-12 22:42:52

You could argue that in one fell swoop this woman has raised awareness of the awfulness and seriousness of HG.

It's just possible that other women might receive a little more understanding when they suffer the same.

LucieMay Mon 03-Dec-12 22:44:36

I don't oppose self made rich folk but I do oppose the monarchy on ethical grounds. Nothing against the people themselves, I think it's a shame for her, as I would think that about any young woman. All that stuff about carrying the heir to the throne is irrelevant, all human life is as important as another, their health isn't more important than anyone else's.

MrsDeVere Mon 03-Dec-12 22:45:40

Bloody hell the woman is in hospital with a serious complication of pregnancy.

Poor thing.

I hope she feels better soon and has a nice pregnancy. Everyone deserves a nice pregnancy.
Even privileged young woman who are subsumed by their husband's position whose role is to be not much more than a nice hair style in a frock.

I hope she feels better soon but I really, really do not want to have to listen to people speculating about her, her pregnancy and the baby for the next nine months - not that I have much choice sinceEVERYONE is going to be discussing it.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Mon 03-Dec-12 22:51:47

No, they're not, Freaky. Most people, IME, are far too busy and engaged with their own lives to give a toss. The media hype it up so they can flog product to the minority who are so terminally bored they take an interest.

autumnlights12 Mon 03-Dec-12 22:53:35

there are some mean and dumb creatures on Mumsnet

Greensleeves Mon 03-Dec-12 22:54:09

and some idiots

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Mon 03-Dec-12 22:55:23

Of course it's going to be discussed.

There's lots of stuff in the news every day that I can switch off from.

I suggest you do the same.

FBworry Mon 03-Dec-12 22:56:06


autumnlights12 Mon 03-Dec-12 22:57:25

this thread Inspires me to become rampant monarchist of the highest order. Republicans are plain nasty.

edam Mon 03-Dec-12 23:02:54

Feel sorry for anyone with hyperemesis, whatever their bank balance (although I suppose a few million does buy you doctors who will actually take an interest).

Gingerodgers Mon 03-Dec-12 23:03:12

Go smacked by some of the nastiness on here. What an unpleasant bunch some of you are.

Gingerodgers Mon 03-Dec-12 23:03:31


stitch Mon 03-Dec-12 23:03:53

i want the news to stop as well. its been five minutes, and im sick of it already

kennyp Mon 03-Dec-12 23:03:58

Maybe chegsy cole can get pregnant too and have twins or more and that might take the shine off kate

****woman pregnant!!!!!! Hold the front page!!!!!!! Her granny in law is the queen!!!!!*****. Repeat to fade until january.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Mon 03-Dec-12 23:11:43

How can you be sick of it already?

We've only known for 7 frigging hours. I've heard it once on the radio at 4.30.

So dramatic some of you.

I think this thread needs pulling tbh. I hadn't read it when I commented but after doing so see there are some of you are proper nasty cunts cows.

I agree Everlong.

ladydepp Mon 03-Dec-12 23:25:13

Yellowtip - I can't wait to see a list of all the incredibly useful things you have done for society lately, please could you enlighten us? Are you always this nasty?

Oh and could you please also tell us why Kate is more pointless than - oh- YOU?

Kate may be incredibly privileged, but I wouldn't trade places with her at the moment, media camped outside while she is feeling utterly vile.....poor thing. I hope she has a happy, healthy pregnancy and a beautiful, healthy baby. And I am not a royalist.......just a woman with a little compassion for other women.

fedupofnamechanging Mon 03-Dec-12 23:26:15

I am sorry she is ill, but I do feel that women who have other dc to look after, and are under pressure to not take time off work, are having a tougher time and a lot less sympathy/consideration.

I also don't think that her baby is more important than anyone else's, so the fact that it is heir to the throne is utterly irrelevant, imo.

I do wish her well, but she is not the only person in the world to ever have been pg and I don't want to hear all the details for the next 8 months. The news has seriously dumbed down wrt this story - do journalists not realise that a great many of us know all about pg and sickness and don't need it explained in excruciating detail.

No offence to Kate, but there are more important things happening in the world.

PickledInAPearTree Mon 03-Dec-12 23:26:35

Vent your spleens on the media.

I'm pretty sure Kate would prefer to be left alone.

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 03-Dec-12 23:37:04

I'm sure she would rather be able to have done privacy. I'm sure she would rather have been able to wait until she'd got past 12 weeks before having to announce it instead it's had to be announced early to stop her privacy being ridiculously intruded on.

I'm sure she doesn't give a fuck how disinterested and mean spirited you are OP.

Also fairly sure that being wealthy doesn't make much difference to how one feels vomiting continually. But of course,because your friend was treated badly,so should every woman with HG.

quietlysuggests Mon 03-Dec-12 23:37:40

I am sort of Irish. I have no real interest in the royalty.
But I was delighted to hear their news and really sorry she has HG.
What is wrong with people, to be so nasty about someone?
I think I am now a royalist...

Morloth Tue 04-Dec-12 00:51:11

I still don't get it.

As far as I can see she personally has not done anything to hurt anyone or said anything unpleasant or actually done anything to deserve any sort of unpleasantness.

She is sick so has gone to hospital, how is it her personal fault that other people have not been treated well by GPs?

I married a rich handsome man, is that really such an awful action that means anything bad that happens to me doesn't count anymore?

Lora1982 Tue 04-Dec-12 00:59:58

My heart sank when i heard there was going to be 14 pages in one paper allllll about it tomorrow. Im pleased for them i am... But i really dont want a minute by minute update. Tedious

AltinkumATEalltheTurkey Tue 04-Dec-12 01:39:09

I just hope she get peace and allowed to enjoy her pregnancy, and be allowed to parent the child as they see fit away from media spotlight.

Like any new parents to be, its a massive change to the system, never mind being in the spotlight to boot.

Lueji Tue 04-Dec-12 02:33:45

You don't even know for sure the real reason she was admitted, OP.

Precious first born syndrome, but mostly for the press.

SomersetONeil Tue 04-Dec-12 02:57:14

"I just find her utterly pointless, 'carrying the heir' or not. Uninteresting and rather rodentine."


So much so, that you're banging on about her on this thread. Pull the other one. If you really found her 'pointless' and 'uninteresting', it wouldn't even occur to you to click on threads about her...

You're as interested as all the other people which will fuel the humongous British media obsession that will ensue over the coming months. The obsession that the OP seems to feel is beyond her power to ignore, if she so chooses...

FellatioBellsOn Tue 04-Dec-12 03:16:30

Oh don't be so bloody bitter.

Yes. ^ That.

TeeElfOnTeeShelf Tue 04-Dec-12 06:15:34

The only appropriate response to the announcement of a baby, any baby, is 'congratulations'.

I am so sick of the slagging off and the 'who gives a fuck' posts.

I hope people don't say such things about other women they don't really know when they hear a stranger is pregnant.

"Did you hear? My mother's next door neighbour's daughter is pregnant and she's really sick with it."
"Who gives a fuck!"

Seriously? This is what you'd say?

TheGothMummy Tue 04-Dec-12 06:28:51

Hi, i'm new..ish. i'm a silent stalker who just decided to join properly.
i feel SO sorry for her. my sister suffered really badly. i was bless with all three to never have it. BUT...
as i went to my email to click my proper registration thing, i just saw on frotn page of 'hotmail news' about Kate being in hospital etc etc, for the billionth time today... and i admit i did say out loud 'oh she'll be fine, shes pregnant not terminal!'
i DO feel for her, but they're making out like shes on her last lovely legs. but news is news, and some people will want a minute by minute account.
my first thoughts was 'oh my god they've had sex.' which, of course they would've, but it seems weird cos they're royal. go on, imagine it for a sec...weird.

ipswichwitch Tue 04-Dec-12 06:41:50

I'm bit exactly fussed on the Royal family myself, but if you take away who she is, what you have is a young woman in early pregnancy, who's feeling pretty bloody awful and probably terrified. I hope to god the press leave her the hell alone. Imagine going through something as hideous as HG (not something you can just "get on with it"), and not only having the paparazzi fighting to get photos if you with your head down the toilet, but having to announce to the world why you've been hospitalised.

Alligatorpie Tue 04-Dec-12 06:42:09

This thread is really awful.

OP do you dislike everyone who has more money / privilege than you? Sounds like your friend had bad medical advice, but do you wish that on everyone? What a nasty attitude.

She is pregnant, sick, has unimaginable pressure on her and was forced to announce her pregnancy to the world before she was 12 weeks, to avoid media speculation about why she is in hospital. Give her a break.

And if you don't want to read about her, why did you start a thread about her?

ipswichwitch Tue 04-Dec-12 06:42:25

Should read "I'm not exactly fussed"

Bunbaker Tue 04-Dec-12 06:47:50

"Why is it spiteful to not have sympathy for a rich pampered princess?"

"Pointless posh bint having baby with pointless posh twit to further the family line of a bunch of pointless inbreds."

Wow, some of the nastiness on here!

Being rich doesn't guarantee you good health or easy pregnancies. Why so many chips on shoulders? I agree with Pantofino - "So you wish a fellow human being, a fellow woman, illness and a shit pregnancy because she happens to have more more money than you?"

DesperatelySeekingSedatives Tue 04-Dec-12 06:57:48

YABU I feel really sorry for her! She must feel lousy and she's had to have her pregnancy announced to the world before she's even 12 weeks into it! I bet her and William would have prefered to wait another month at least before it was announced. Not to mention all the pressure Kate is under to deliver a 100% healthy baby into the world.

Thinking about it that way, I think your friend got quite a good deal! grin

kim147 Tue 04-Dec-12 07:02:42

FFS - the BBC are live outside the hospital and will bring any updates during the morning.

Leave her alone. Let her deal with the morning sickness and don't stalk her. She's not even 12 weeks yet and anything could happen.

Fakebook Tue 04-Dec-12 07:04:41

I think it's pretty shit you don't feel sympathy for someone just because they're rich. She's not famous by choice and selling news stories on herself. YABU.

Moln Tue 04-Dec-12 07:04:57

Was she really wolfing down roast beef and krispie cake last week? Can't imagine her wolfing down anything!

I heard the it on the 9 o'clock news last night and my first thought was 'hope she's far along.' I don't really have a stong opinion of her in the sense of who or what she is, but if something happened and she lost her baby, I cannot imagine how hideous it would be to have such lack of privacy while you went through that. Bad enough without it.

On the media coverage every minute, everyday, you and I can avoid it (and you can) she can't. Feeling empathy for a woman from another woman, i don't think she can avoid it.

She seems quite nice, privalges or no privalges, wouldn't it be difficult to be a right rotter and not appear it with the level of media coverage on her?

DesperatelySeekingSedatives Tue 04-Dec-12 07:10:11

Agree with kim147 they need to leave her alone. I had to go to hospital with severe pain at around 9 weeks into my first pregnancy and was terrified at the time it meant I'd lose my baby. I didn't but it still had the fear. Can't imagine how much harder it all must be if you have the entire western world holding their breath, waiting for an update on these things while hanging around outside the hospital!

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Tue 04-Dec-12 07:10:25

If I am not interested in something, can't stand it, loathe it I wouldn't waste my time by starting a thread about it.

That's weird.

Only4theOlympics Tue 04-Dec-12 07:11:31

I have sympathy for anyone with HG. Rich or poor you can still get sick.

amandine07 Tue 04-Dec-12 07:15:40

I think the media should back away a bit & leave them in peace- I'm no big fan of the royal family. She is in the early stages and they should pull back from the acres of press coverage about names, dates & locations where the baby was conceived etc.

Being in the royal family doesn't guarantee a healthy or successful pregnancy.

amandine07 Tue 04-Dec-12 07:18:31

Also saw all the photographers lined up outside the hospital, waiting for what exactly, it's not as if she's going to emerge with a baby, well not for another several months, hopefully. Going to be a looong wait for them!

Pooka Tue 04-Dec-12 07:21:05

I know three people who were hospitalised due to Hyperemesis.

A friend from school had it with both pregnancies, as did a post-natal group friend. The school friend was hospitalised in both pregnancies. Sick right up until day dcs were born.

SoupDragon Tue 04-Dec-12 07:22:38

Funny how any nice story about the royals brings out the bitchiness and plain nastiness in people.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Tue 04-Dec-12 07:23:54

soup I'm guessing those people are always nasty. wink

laptopdancer Tue 04-Dec-12 07:25:04

Oh dear, is it "the wrong thing" to not think that much of the royal family now that one of them is pregnant?
quickly goes to grab union jack flag and wave it vigorously

I agree 100% with what karmabeliever said...well put.

Moln Tue 04-Dec-12 07:35:53

Nothing to do with union jack waving you big numpty, laptop dancer.

In fact if you read carefully most (of the sympathetic) people are saying she shouldn't get as much media attention, very few have said this pregnacy is more important (may two have). Who is yo know that the woman in question thiinks she deserves more sympathy.

With what she's got she's most likely thinking no more than wishing it stop and her baby will be ok

laptopdancer Tue 04-Dec-12 07:38:29

Can I put the flag down now then? grin

laptopdancer Tue 04-Dec-12 07:39:48

On the other side of the coin...imagine the great pregnancy clothes that will be around now for the next few months. Shame I'm too old. The maternity clothes when I was og were awful sad

laptopdancer Tue 04-Dec-12 07:40:15

pg rather

SugaricePlumFairy Tue 04-Dec-12 07:40:54

Wow, some really nasty bitter comments from some on here shock regarding a woman who [from what I see anyway] seems very nice and unassuming!

She's pregnant and has the best medical care at her bedside to ensure her and her baby are well, is that any reason for the vitriol that's being spewed on here!

SoupDragon Tue 04-Dec-12 07:43:27

Oh dear, is it "the wrong thing" to not think that much of the royal family now that one of them is pregnant?

No, but it is the "wrong thing" to be quite as spiteful and nasty as a few posters have been. Indifference is fine.

Glittertwins Tue 04-Dec-12 07:49:32

Doesn't matter who you are, how much or little money you have, HG is awful. I wasn't posting here when I had it and I also personally know 2 people who were hospitalised for long periods of their pregnancy. That made 3 of us in one department at work so not unfeasibly for many ladies here to have suffered it.

HELPMyPooIsStuck Tue 04-Dec-12 07:53:41

I sympathise with anyone who has that condition.

SomersetONeil Tue 04-Dec-12 07:57:09

I've never had HG and I've never known anyone in real life to have it either.

But Mumsnet has 100s of 1000s of members.

Pretty much all women. Pretty much all mothers (i.e. been pregnant, and more than once in many instances).

Not THAT much of a surprise, surely, that the number of people who will have had it quite high, is it?! hmm

Morloth Tue 04-Dec-12 07:59:04

I don't think much of/about the royal family. If I had my way Australia would be a republic, quite happy to drop the lot of them.

But this woman has done nothing to deserve such nastiness. How mean to call her 'pointless' why does she have to have a 'point' more than anyone else?

It is just bizarre.

differentnameforthis Tue 04-Dec-12 08:25:20

You sound lovely!

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Tue 04-Dec-12 08:36:11

Such ignorant sods on fb. Comparing normal sickness with HG.

Embarrassing themselves in all honesty.

Oh and not my friends. Friends of friends.

Hippymama Tue 04-Dec-12 08:37:48

Bloody hell, really shocked at some of the vitriolic posts on here. Are you really that callous and heartless?

I had hg when pregnant and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It is a vile condition and one that took all the enjoyment from my pregnancy. I was sick all day, every day for nine months. I finished my pregnancy weighing three stone less than when I started and severely anaemic. I threw up so much I vomited green bile and blood. I only hope that the "lovely" ladies who are saying she only has morning sickness never have to go through a hg pregnancy, don't think you'd be so callous then.

As for the fact Kate was "wolfing down" rice krispie cakes on Friday, it is possible that is the case. Hg can strike very quickly. I went from feeling fine one day to being unable to even move my head without vomiting the next sad

The only positive thing about Kate having hg is that it might raise awareness of it at last and then we won't have to read such ignorant, spiteful and misinformed comments such as man

Hippymama Tue 04-Dec-12 08:38:56

Pressed enter too soon...

.....such as many of the horrible comments I've read on here and in other places.

Megatron Tue 04-Dec-12 08:40:58

Jeez some folk really are unpleasant. I don't care who she is, HG is horrendous and ruined my life for a few months so I wouldn't wish it on anybody. So she kind of deserves to feel shite just because of who she is? That's a shameful way to think. And no, I'm most definitely not some rampant Royalist.

threesocksfullofchocs Tue 04-Dec-12 08:42:28

yabu op and nasty.
I had a shit time being ill when pregnant. I would never wish it on anyone.

Mrsjay Tue 04-Dec-12 08:43:36

Im not keen on the minute by minute updates hmm but yabu it isn't kates fault your friend was treated badly, being ill in pregnancy is just the pitts and she is ill

I had a bit of a giggle yesterday with "oh no not another kid being born to a family on benefits" - but that's just my humour.

I have every sympathy for any woman going through HG. I know someone who had it and it was vile. No amount of money or material comforts will help.

On the other hand argh please stop with the wall to wall news coverage!

Mrsjay Tue 04-Dec-12 08:54:17

On the other hand argh please stop with the wall to wall news coverage!

<nods> it was announced early because of her sickness but just stop leave them alone

domesticgodless Tue 04-Dec-12 08:57:18

We're not going to escape the wall to wall fawning coverage glitter... It's the perfect way for journalists, the Beeb and papers to look 'patriotic' and more importantly bury the massive tide of bad news next year will bring... 'Ooooh look isn't Kate the Perfect Mother? Just look at her eating fruit'.... 'Wills places a protective arm around his wife as they go to wave at their loyal subjects' <vom>

And when the new Messiah is born it will really get unbearable especially if its a boy <leaves country>

melika Tue 04-Dec-12 08:58:44

HG is pretty serious, I was in hospital and a girl next to me was on a drip the whole time, fluids, anti sickness drugs and even had food on a drip. You could barely tell she was five months pregnant and she had to stay in hospital all that time. It's not nice.(Btw it's a girl!)

Mrsjay Tue 04-Dec-12 09:00:07

I heard that the new baby will be heir regardless of gender, not sure if thats right or not,

fairylightsandtinsel Tue 04-Dec-12 09:00:36

just on the "pointless twits" comment up-thread. Wills is an RAF search and rescue helicopter pilot and completes his duties the same as an other. Kate (when she is not keeping house like any other wife in North Wales) does the work that is expected of a royal and while it may look glamorous and leisurly it must be sometimes unbelieveably tedious to make small talk and show interest in all the various things she has to do. Huge amounts of really nasty spite on here sad and far too much envy of her wealth. Her own family are self made wealthy - enough to send her to top boarding schools. Its not their fault they are who they are or that the media has, apparently, in the case of the DM 13!!! consecutive pages of news on this pregnancy.

Tobermory Tue 04-Dec-12 09:01:54

Im so shocked by some posts here.

You may not like her very much, which is your prerogative, but really have a bit of empathy!
If you've been pg you know how emotionally difficult it is, especially the early days. You've been ill and felt rubbish when all you want to do is curl up and hide. To have to do that with the eyes of the world on you, paps everywhere, when you still wanted the pg to be your secret for a few more weeks, must be so difficult.

Intense medie coverage for the next 9 months is inevitable but you can choose not to read, you don't have to be quite so mean.

There's nothing mean in wanting the media to tone it down a bit!
BBC Breakfast is unbearable this morning (and no I can't tolerate Daybreak!)

Not only that but the only paper I've seen not to have it front page is the Indie.

What's next? Debates over whether the Duchess has haemmorhoids or flatulence?

SoupDragon Tue 04-Dec-12 09:09:00

There's nothing mean in wanting the media to tone it down a bit!

Have you read the spiteful and nasty comments on this thread?

Mrsjay Tue 04-Dec-12 09:09:23

Oh i dont want to hear about kates piles grin we dont need the updates cos nothing is happening the woman is throwing up in hospital what else do we need to know ? It isn't mean to not want to hear about it I am watching daybreak blush and they had clips of how america has taken the news <rolls eyes>

MrsBungleBear Tue 04-Dec-12 09:16:37

Hg is not common. My.consultant told me It's rare and up to 2% of pregnant women suffer from it.

I am no royalist but I really feel for her. I was hospitalised many times. I had heart and liver problems as a result and like a poster up thread my tooth enamel on my front teeth is nearly gone and has had to be repaired.

There is no way you can work with Hg.

It will be a very long 7 or so months ahead for her. I was ill to the bitter end.

Frontpaw Tue 04-Dec-12 09:24:08

I do feel sorry for her. It doesn't matter how much wealth or privilege you have, the inside of a loo basin looks pretty much the same.

Ok so she has he best of everything but still, she must be worrying if it will all be ok, etc. what was that doctor on the telly saying - it's a sign of a healthy pregnancy??? I only puked once (I had missed breakfast, but sadly not the window of a very posh deli), and pregnancy, me and baby were all hunky dory, whereas a colleague was hospitalised, sick as a dog, lost a twin and the baby was born with health problems.

I can't get all worked up about someone I don't know having a baby but I feel for anyone who feels this crappy. Maybe it will encourage employers to be a bit more sympathetic when women get this?

What do the posts on this thread have to do with the media?
Why does wanting a bit of space from the wall to wall coverage make people meeeeeean?

Seriously there must be other things happening in the world.

YouScroogeYouLose Tue 04-Dec-12 09:25:32

Sorry slightly off topic but is anyone else wondering if Kate will start to mn now???

Frontpaw Tue 04-Dec-12 09:25:52

I wanted to hear more about Starbucks et al.

It worries me what will be 'buried' with all this hype.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Tue 04-Dec-12 09:40:12

Like somebody up thread said the only good thing about Kate having HG is that it will make people aware of the condition.

And maybe all those bitter and ignorant thick sods who compare it nornal morning sickness will learn something. I've seen people on Facebook saying they had to still work while having sickness.

Obviously they didn't have HG then.

Frontpaw Tue 04-Dec-12 09:45:09

I think there will be an epidemic of swooning ninnies calling work sick with this!

A bit like those with a wee headache insisting that it is a migrane. I know about them and they can make you really sick for days (hiding under the duvet for days, puking into a bucket - no it's not a headache!).

I get annoyed with women who (genuinely) milk pregnancy, it trivialises real problems for other women.

digerd Tue 04-Dec-12 09:45:09

Yes, Apparently it was a new law last year. But why must it be the 1st born anyway, it should be the one who is the most capable of the position as in all "jobs" !!! The Queen mother's husband - did not want to be King , but was forced onto it.

shuffleballchange Tue 04-Dec-12 09:49:12

I was hospitalised in both pregnancies due to HG, utterly miserable time. I really feel for Kate, it may bring more recognition to the condition now though. Im not a royalist but am very happy to hear their news and can't wait to see her maternity wear!!

YABU and a little bitter op, lighten up, a royal baby can only be good news surely??

Mrsjay Tue 04-Dec-12 09:51:44

Yes, Apparently it was a new law last year.

I knew I heard it somewhere thanks for clarifying and i wasn't talking rubbish, least it a step in the right direction

Frontpaw Tue 04-Dec-12 09:54:02

It's not through yet! Just dotting the i's I suppose.

melika Tue 04-Dec-12 09:57:06

I only felt sick when I brushed my teeth!

Mrsjay Tue 04-Dec-12 10:00:04

It's not through yet! Just dotting the i's I suppose.

They will probably be dotted before the baby comes . I am still holding out for twin royals though grin

nannyl Tue 04-Dec-12 10:03:50

Of course YABU

I have HG for the 2nd time right now, had it 9m last time

its horrific, and i have been to the drs almost daily this pregnancy, being taken very seriously and admitted when i am dehydrated to need regydrating... again and again

HG is a serious condition and it can kill you, and in the mean time you feel crappier than crap for months on end.

I have never come across an unsympathetic dr, both at my surgery and in hospital

Yellowtip Tue 04-Dec-12 10:05:08

fairylights unless things have recently changed dramatically in the forces, I don't believe 'any other' officer would get 'compassionate' leave for extreme morning sickness, given that the wife in in good hands in an excellent hospital with immediate family on hand.

Leave to be with a wife for a couple of days after a miscarriage used to be seriously frowned on, not sure how it is now. In fact anything to do with pregnancy an childbirth was given very short shrift if it compromised the work of the husband in any way. Pregnant women were treated abysmally, certainly twenty years ago, in the nineties.

William obviously wants to do something useful but he doesn't do the job in the same way with the same restrictions as his colleagues; no chance.

The Telegraph says that Kate and William pushed for the news to come out.

What happens with a multiple birth c-section? Can the doctors choose which to deliver first or does the position of the babies inevitably dictate that? Or can both babies be delivered siultaneously? I'm interested to know how the doctors would handle that, esp. if theres one girl and one boy?

RooneyMara Tue 04-Dec-12 10:23:33

It's fairly simple, if you don't want a minute by minute account of her pregnancy, including a load of made up bollocks and speculation, don't buy or read the tabloids.

That's how I avoid it.

I have EVERY sympathy for her though I honestly envy the doubtless very good treatment she must be getting - that would be what I'd want for every pg woman with HG, because HG is truly shit and awful.

I hope she is able to sustain the pregnancy
I hope she feels as good as she can
I hope she gets the right drugs

And I hope she is allowed enough privacy both during and after the pregnancy.

I don't care what she wears or does, really, and I'm blaise about the Royal Family, but from what I know I like the lass (as well as William) and I want everything to go well for them.

Just...don't read the papers if you don't have any interest in it.

Frontpaw Tue 04-Dec-12 10:25:48

It's not just the papers though - tv, radio...

RooneyMara Tue 04-Dec-12 10:27:01

Somehow, we manage to avoid the news. I don't know if this is irresponsible of us.

I do have R4 on in the car but so far haven't heard a peep about Kate though I was kind of hoping to this morning. It's all politics and prostitution laws.

We do watch a lot of CBBC though.

Mrsjay Tue 04-Dec-12 10:27:08

I have just turned the tv off This morning is about to start I bet Dr chris will be wittering on or maybe denise offering her support at this difficult time hmm

oohlaalaa Tue 04-Dec-12 10:27:29


It's in the broadsheets too!

Janeatthebarre Tue 04-Dec-12 10:28:38

I can't understand why Kate would attract such antagonism from some people. She comes across as a perfectly pleasant girl who does what's expected of her without going out of her way to court media attention.She doesn't seem to have any of Diana's insecurities or neediness and will probably be a perfectly normal responsible mother.

That being said I hope the media will calm down after today and will not spend the next seven months forcefeeding everyone stories about the pregnancy or writing silly coy articles or swooning everytime she appears in a nice maternity outfit. We had all that nonsense with Diana and the whole thing turned out to be a complete charade.

RooneyMara Tue 04-Dec-12 10:28:45

Well if you watch This Morning yes you'll be subjected to a whole host of shite grin

Not long till lunchtime and you can turn over to repeats of Kavanagh QC and so on grin

morning TV is pretty desperate, isn't it...that's why I'm on MN I suppose!

Frontpaw Tue 04-Dec-12 10:29:02

I actually heard of it all first on mumsnet when about three threads popped up!

RooneyMara Tue 04-Dec-12 10:29:37

I doubt it'll be in the broadsheets for very long though, or nearly as much iyswim. They won't be treating it in the same obsessional way as the tabloids.

RooneyMara Tue 04-Dec-12 10:30:03

Me too Frontpaw - I think of MN as my news filtering system!

ToffeeCaramel Tue 04-Dec-12 10:33:02

It will be in the news because people want to hear about it. Me included. Very excited about the new baby me.

I could do with without the wall to wall coverage. I expect Kate could too. I have visions of Peter Snow leaping around a vomitometer if they thought they could get away with it.

I am ambivalent about the royals and the heir to the throne comments leave a bit of a nasty taste in my mouth, all babies are equally important regardless of "rank". However, she is a young woman having her first child who is having a rough time of it and she has my sympathy for that.

As others have said hopefully this means that HG will be taken more seriously.

Yellowtip Tue 04-Dec-12 10:34:21

It's the charade factor which is the biggest difficulty Jane. So much is false. Given how many lies were peddled about Diana, Charles and Camilla it's difficult to see what there is left to admire. The Queen possibly, for sheer hard work. And Anne for the same. And Zara, for talent.

Nothing in the least remarkable about Kate, except tenacity and a good game plan perhaps.

BeckAndCall Tue 04-Dec-12 10:37:36

If her condition helps the rest of the world understand just how horrible it is to be that sick, then I would see that as positive But wouldn't be wishing it on her.

The number of times 'you hear 'it's just morning sickness' from people who've never had it or from male doctors or male colleagues. You try having your head down the toilet for hours at a time for 6 month ( in my case) and then say its 'just' anything.

I hope its of short duration for you, Kate, and that you get all the help you need. 'This too will pass.'

Yellowtip Tue 04-Dec-12 10:47:45

At what point does morning sickness become hg?

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 04-Dec-12 10:50:55

digerd George VI wasn't heir to the throne. He became king only because Edward abdicated. He was the spare heir in much the same way Harry is now. Of Edward and George, it seems we did end up with the better one for the job,Edward was a massive Nazi sympathiser throughout the war.

RooneyMara Tue 04-Dec-12 10:57:05

I'm not sure of the official definition...'hyper' usually means excessive, or too high,, or extreme.

I'd imagine it crosses over once the person becomes physically and/or mentally unable to carry on with their life without considerable medical intervention.

I think the Dr said I had it because I could not function even with meds. But I think it can be far far worse than what I had.

nannyl Tue 04-Dec-12 10:59:32


HG is when you are truley dehydrated, cant keep anything down, your body goes into ketosis...... and thats often WITH medication

also as a rule of thumb someone with HG will loose at least 5kg of weight (or 10% of their body weight) in just a few weeks.

a few days of nasty morning sickness is 1 thing

continual vomitting (often not keeping anything at all down for days) looseing weight, and your body going into starvtion mode is different.... and it doesnt improve for ages... even with medication and with IV fluids

and you feel so so so SO poorly, you could not even comprehend how poorly (unless you have had it) and most people feel like that continually for months.

Plenty of people with HG are bedridden for MONTHS

Frontpaw Tue 04-Dec-12 11:01:40

It's like the worst food poisoning ever and it can go one for weeks.

RooneyMara Tue 04-Dec-12 11:03:06

Oh yes the ketones thing, I forgot about that.

That's why this pregnancy was better - the first two (first 10 years ago) I had nothing useful to take, and didn't eat and lost loads of weight and think I remember having +++ ketones, when being referred for termination (which I didn't do thankfully)

this time with right meds I could EAT
it made it SO much better

HeyNiki Tue 04-Dec-12 11:21:04


I had to scroll right down past all the nasty fuckers. Glad the last few posts are from more civilised individuals. Seriously, if you don't like it, just don't go there.

VenusRising Tue 04-Dec-12 11:29:43

Maybe she got food poisoning at her old school!?

I got food poisoning at a pals wedding when I was 7 mos pregnant and I still remember ever last heave. OMFG - it was just terrible.

My cousin was sick all through all three of her pregnancies - she was hospitalised for months and months on end with each one, on a drip. She was scarily thin when her babes were born - and she didn't have much to lose either beforehand - she's still about 7.5 stone (five foot seven).

Hope any woman with HG's feeling much better soon.

ToffeeCaramel Tue 04-Dec-12 11:35:53

From this article.

"Before intravenous fluid therapy was available, hyperemesis was a major cause of maternal mortality. In fact, therapeutic abortion was introduced in 1813 as a treatment of hyperemesis gravidarum.1 Charlotte Bronte, the famous 19th century author of Jane Eyre, died of hyperemesis in 1855 in her fourth month of pregnancy.2

Vomiting has been reported in 56% of all pregnant women.2 Hyperemesis gravidarum, however, occurs in 3.5 per 1,000 pregnancies"

SantasStrapOn Tue 04-Dec-12 11:40:31

I had HG in all of my pregnancies. It was hell. I vomited up blood, bits of stomach lining, my eyes had masses of burst blood vessels in them. I was hospitalised for most of the pregnancies, on an IV as I couldn't even keep saliva down. That was on the maximum dose of meds, and I have CKD as a result of it, and a damaged stomach valve.

It's worlds apart from simple morning sickness, I would rather be in labour for 9 months than go through that again.

I am far from being a royalist, and while I don't want day-by-day reports on her pregnancy, I certainly don't wish Catherine ill.

I watched my best friend suffer with HG during both of her pregnancies and it was horrible. Just like VenusRising described with her cousin, my best friend was in hospital for months on end, and had to be fed and hydrated through a drip.

She ended both pregnancies much, much lighter than she was prior to pregnancy, and after the first one significantly. It was shocking to see her like that. This probably sound over-dramatic to some, but even now when I think about what my best friend went through (and the last time was three years ago), it brings tears to my eyes. It was horrific to see someone I care so much about, suffer in such a way. I wouldn't wish it on my own worst enemy.

My best friend and her husband had always planned on three children, but after suffering with HG twice, she wasn't prepared to risk going through that again (and of course her husband fully supported that).

ToffeeCaramel Tue 04-Dec-12 11:52:11

Someone on my facebook was saying "It's not an illness, she's just pregnant, i had morning sickness so badly that i had to run out of meetings at work to be sick!" Well you didn't have HG then did you if you were still at work!

Frontpaw Tue 04-Dec-12 12:15:28

A colleague had this and passed out on the tube a couple of times. She ended up in hospital, so no, it's not just a little ordinary puking! I have been wondering if its because she is very very slim? My colleague was very slender too...

Oblomov Tue 04-Dec-12 12:36:35

What a nasty thread. Glad the last few posts have been more pleasant.
I didn't even have sickness severe enough to be considered HG, but I was very sick all the way through. Hospitalised. If ANY of you insensitive people really had had HG you would not be making these ridiculous posts.

Frontpaw Tue 04-Dec-12 12:38:11

I would have thought if it was run of the mill morning sickness, they would keep her at home, say she has a cod and cancel a few appointments, not take her to hospital and announce a pregnancy.

schilke Tue 04-Dec-12 12:41:50

I feel lucky that I only threw up non-stop for 6 weeks in 2 out of my 4 pregnancies! At least it didn't last for months for me. I also had my lovely mum come and stay to look after my older 2 dc. It was awful. Lost over 1.5 stones.

Someone suggested tinned clementine pieces as they are not too bad when they come back! I used to crawl to the toilet. (Not helpful that they're talking about norovirus on Radio 5!)

Frontpaw Tue 04-Dec-12 12:46:27

Cold not a cod. Unless it was a dodgy one that made her sick.

LtXmasEve Tue 04-Dec-12 12:50:50

fairylights unless things have recently changed dramatically in the forces, I don't believe 'any other' officer would get 'compassionate' leave for extreme morning sickness, given that the wife in in good hands in an excellent hospital with immediate family on hand

Leave to be with a wife for a couple of days after a miscarriage used to be seriously frowned on, not sure how it is now. In fact anything to do with pregnancy an childbirth was given very short shrift if it compromised the work of the husband in any way. Pregnant women were treated abysmally, certainly twenty years ago, in the nineties

Yes, things have changed a lot since the 90's, thankfully. The military is much more forward thinking, and able to show a 'human' side in all matters. Prince William is not on, nor warned for, Operations so more allowances can be made. Authorised Absence can be granted by Commanding Officers as and when they feel it is required.

ReindeerBollocks Tue 04-Dec-12 12:55:18

I'm currently in bed trying not to vomit with horrendous morning sickness. I'm only able to drink flat cola as water is making it worse.

I'm not a royalist but my goodness it sounds like Kate is going through something much worse, and for that I feel truly sorry for her.

I wish her a safe pregnancy and hope that they can use medication to get this undere control for here. Regardless of anyone's opinion on the royal family, why would anyone be pleased that someone is suffering so much in early pregnancy?

Yellowtip Tue 04-Dec-12 13:16:22

Just as well LtXmasEve So presumably wives in Germany no longer have to travel 90km for ante natal appointments/ delivery, no longer have c-sections suggested as a cheap option for those who tend to deliver fast and miscarriages and complications are treated seriously these days? The prevailing attitude towards these things was scandalous and it's not as though the nineties were the dark ages either.

Reindeer I think it's possible to feel the greatest sympathy with her if she's got hg proper whilst appreciating that she's much luckier than many to have no other DC to care for (esp no cooking) and can afford the best medical care in the world. That practical stuff helps. Those things are entirely separate from people's view of her a a person or the monarchy as an institution. Trouble is that one can't express an opinion on either of the latter without being told it's mean, because Kate has hg. Which is silly.

ReindeerBollocks Tue 04-Dec-12 13:27:29

I have to admit I said that yesterday to my own mother - imagine being so well looked after. Having spent the past couple of weeks barely managing to look after my two DC and being unable to cook properly for them (DH is doing the cooking as I can't stand the smells).

I don't resent that though - the trade off is the world wide press outside the hospital. And I don't know if it is true HG or not, but morning sickness is bad enough, and if HG is worse then god help her.

(apologies for the terrible typo's in my post)

elizaregina Tue 04-Dec-12 13:29:14

babblas -

its good she has brought this into the public domain by default - maybe people will be alot more sympathetic to all other ladies who get this condition now.

SantasStrapOn Tue 04-Dec-12 13:31:56

Only if the idiot press stop reporting it as severe morning sickness. <glum>

dapplegrey Tue 04-Dec-12 13:36:10

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

agedknees Tue 04-Dec-12 13:41:07

As a midwife, I nursed plenty of women with HG. I would not wish the condition on my worst enemy.

YABU. And nasty.

Frontpaw Tue 04-Dec-12 13:43:10

Maybe the op would be happier of she got the same treatment as her friend? Of course she wouldn't. It was just a badly worded post I think. No one would be unsympathetic towards another mum to be puking herself inside out (unless she'd been necking alcopops, which I assume Kate hasn't).

Bella88 Tue 04-Dec-12 13:49:19

I'm with you OP. Take no notice of the brainwashed masses who berate you for daring to have an opinion that deviates from syrup we're being spoonfed.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Tue 04-Dec-12 13:52:14

How is it brainwashed?

It's just having empathy for someone. Someone that is in the public eye who seems like a nice person having her first baby and who has HG.

Some of you are beyond weird.

PickledInAPearTree Tue 04-Dec-12 15:00:07

Some charmers around here.

somuchslimmernow Tue 04-Dec-12 15:00:26

well the thread title is quite clear - little sympathy for her. So dont think the excuse of badly worded quite stands up.

KellyEllyChristmasBelly Tue 04-Dec-12 15:16:31

Wow, some of you on here are just really bad minded and devoid of empathy.

VikingVagine Tue 04-Dec-12 15:21:48

I had HG with my 2nd DC. No amount of wealth or status would have made me feel any better.

Plenty of sympathy here.

What an unpleasant thread.

lashingsofbingeinghere Tue 04-Dec-12 15:57:16

OP, what's the problem? Change channels, change your newspaper (the Indie rarely covers Royal news) if you really don't want to know about Kate's state of health.

I find it easy to know absolutely nothing about TOWIE "stars", Russell Brand, Tulisa etc etc by the simple expedient of never clicking on anything to do with them, or reading anything about them. You should try it.

Bunbaker Tue 04-Dec-12 18:54:53

"And maybe all those bitter and ignorant thick sods who compare it nornal morning sickness will learn something. I've seen people on Facebook saying they had to still work while having sickness. Obviously they didn't have HG then"

Like those people who struggled into work with flu. They obviously didn't have flu, but a bad cold.

Glittertwins Tue 04-Dec-12 19:41:06

It's not just the constant vomiting, it's also the complete loss of strength to do anything at all. I couldn't even walk 100m without collapsing. Thankfully I didn't have any other children to look after.

thebody Tue 04-Dec-12 19:49:12

Childbirth is a great leveller, like diarrhoea.

amillionyears Tue 04-Dec-12 20:13:11

If you cant keep even liquids down, you are in a bad way.

Yellowtip Tue 04-Dec-12 21:36:16

Bunbaker she's feeling better, according to the news.

maximusminimus Tue 04-Dec-12 22:05:34


I agree that I'm already bored with the fawning over it, as though this is the only baby ever to have been conceived (and I also don't care that it's the heir to the throne - people should earn respect and admiration, rather than just be born into the right family...). And I'm afraid I have little sympathy for her in respect of the media attention: whilst it's not nice or even acceptable, she knew what she was getting into.

But I do have a lot of sympathy for her in respect of being so utterly utterly ill. That must be dreadful.

So sympathy from one woman to another, but I'm with the OP on not really caring much about the pregnancy itself (other than hoping it's healthy and happy blah blah blah, just like I would in respect of any other woman's pregnancy).

PickledInAPearTree Tue 04-Dec-12 22:56:49

Well no one is going to put a gun to anyone's head to read about it.

I've only seen one small news article personally and I could have turned that over had I not been interested.

Rudolphstolemycarrots Tue 04-Dec-12 23:06:00

Having suffered from acute morning sickness myself, I have lots of sympathy for her. It's bloody awful. I'm not really into Kate but wouldn't wish a bad pregnancy on anyone.

chipmonkey Tue 04-Dec-12 23:49:05

I had very bad morning sickness on pregnancies one, three and five. Didn't have to be hospitalised but even what I had was debilitating. It wouldn't have mattered if I'd lived in Buckingham palace, I wouldn't have been able to enjoy it at all.
I hope she and her baby get through this OK.

sayithowitis Wed 05-Dec-12 00:01:54

I had HG with both my pregnancies. Whoever said it can strike quickly id=s right. With no 1 I had had 'normal' morning sickness for about three weeks and then suddenly I was hit by the train that is HG. I rapidly became dehydrated, couldn't swallow a mouthful of water before it was coming back up. My GPs couldn't have been any kinder. I had home visits from them every day and they tested for the ketones level each day. As soon as they rose to a certain level, they had me hospitalised and I was on a drip for several days. I had various medications to try to stop the continuous vomiting - seriously, if I was awake I was vomiting. Like others on here I was told that HG is often a sign of a multiple pregnancy and in my case this was correct. Sadly, I miscarried one of my twins, but did manage to maintain the pregnancy with the other. I spent approximately half my pregnancy in hospital due to the HG and I can honestly say that the day it finally stopped, was the day DC1 was born. At one time, I had so little 'spare' fluid in my body, that not only could i not urinate for a couple of days, but it was even painful to blink my eyes because they were so dry. I have never, ever, felt so ill in all my life as I did then. My second full term pregnancy followed a very similar pattern, though this time there was only one baby and thankfully, DC2 held on for the full nine months. But, again, I spent a significant length of time in hospital for HG.

I am sorry for those who feel they have had this condition but have not had the right treatment from the NHS. maybe things were different 20-odd years ago, when it happened to me, but I cannot complain at all about the attitude of any of the healthcare professionals that looked after me at that time.

I think it is very sad that so many posters on here seem to think that Kate is somehow at fault for being so ill, or is even putting on some kind of PR show. I would not wish HG on my worst enemy and really don't understand why so many people are so nasty about her.

knackeredoutmum Wed 05-Dec-12 07:05:49

There is absolutely no way she has hv.

Out on Friday acting normal at a function and feeling better by Wednesday, just no way.

She's prob got normal morning sickness with no need for hospital. Even so I don't know anyone who has morning sickness for 5 days...

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Wed 05-Dec-12 07:17:57

Have you thought of becoming a top private doctor, knackeredoutmum?

Bunbaker Wed 05-Dec-12 07:50:56

She probably is grin. She sounds like my MIL who has never suffered from various ailments therefore they don't exist.

TheShriekingHarpy Wed 05-Dec-12 08:11:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

'There is absolutely no way she has hv.

Out on Friday acting normal at a function and feeling better by Wednesday, just no way.
She's prob got normal morning sickness with no need for hospital. Even so I don't know anyone who has morning sickness for 5 days... '

I think you meant HG - bit early for a health visitor to be in the picture. The rest of your post is just as much bollocks though. She hasn't said she's well. She said she's feeling better - as she should be on a drip and with drugs. You have no idea when this started. This could have just started or she could have been medicated for days. She could have been chucking up behind the scenes on Friday. You haven't heard about it because she was surrounded by decent people. I realise that may be a difficult concept to grasp for you.......

Pagwatch Wed 05-Dec-12 08:24:01

Yes she is immensely priviledged and I completely support people who want rid of the monarchy.
But not being able to sympathise with a woman feeling so horrendous during her first pregnancy is not very nice IMO.

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 08:26:23

I'd have thought it was the hg sufferers above all who could see that there's something a bit dubious about the whole show. It smacks strongly of the sudden onset of ordinary morning sickness at 6 weeks which if you're married to a royal dramatically becomes hg. From day one.

If Kate is laid out for months that's one thing. If she's been way over the top and precious then she's done a disservice to those suffering properly from the full blown conition, which is obviously way beyond grim.

I know which my money is on.

Bunbaker Wed 05-Dec-12 08:30:00

Still the nastiness and cynicism continues. These comments say more about the posters than they do about Kate.

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 08:32:03

Pagwatch she might have been, but which day was it we had reports of her eating her 'favourite' pudding at her old school and giving a hockey demo in high heels? Tbh even with my ordinary morning sickness all I could do was put a pillow over my head and moan. Clearly the onset of hg can be fast, but equally clearly she has absolutely not been suffering for days. The jolly pictures are there.

I have real sympathy for anyone suffering badly with morning sickness but it would definitely be wrong of her and all those 'decent people' around her if this is being bigged up. Very wrong for proper sufferers. We'll see, since time will inevitably tell.

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 08:34:01

Bunbaker it's her call. My posts say I'm a cynic. True, I am, particularly about certain aspects of the royal family given the absolute lies which get put out.

MsElleTow Wed 05-Dec-12 08:35:43

I feeling quite pissed off about the situation today, actually! My DH is serving in the RAF, I need urgent hospital treatment. The first day he can have off is 01/03/13! I am nearly in tears with the pain! There is no compassionate leave for us, we have to use annual leave! Even when DS1 was a toddler, and I had such severe SPD I could not walk at all, my DH got not compassionate leave!

I don't think what you are saying is logical. I really really doubt they would have wanted to announce the pregnancy so early if they didn't have too so they would have avoided hospitalising her unless it was absolutely necessary. If she was just suffering from bad morning sickness there are plenty of large royal residences where Kate could have been quietly looked after without all this fuss until they were ready to announce the pregnancy. I suspect all this media circus so early on in the pg is the last thing they wanted.

As I said above I am pretty meh about the Royal Family (with a few exceptions) but I think she genuinely has HG.

Pagwatch Wed 05-Dec-12 08:39:37

I wouldn't assume anyone was lying about being ill unless I had good reaon to suspect they were. I wouldn't do it about a woman on benefits, a solicitor, a nurse, a sahm or a woman on the front of the newspaper.
I am pretty sure she isn't asking anyone to put it in the press and I have never met anyone who contrives to get hospitalised.
Perhaps I have led a dull life and there are women out there who want to be in hospital on a drip rather than living really quite a nice life and getting ready for Christmas.

knackeredoutmum Wed 05-Dec-12 08:44:22

I think its just me and you yellow tip.

I reckon she is 6 weeks and just coming down with morning sickness too.

There is absolutely no way with hG she would be jollying around on Friday looking like she did but puking behind the scenes and feeling as crap as you do with bad morning sickness let alone hg, then "starting to feel better" by Tuesday.

My bet is early morning sickness which can be a bit on and off for the first week or so (hence being able to function last Friday).

I absolutely wouldn't wish morning sickness on any pregnant woman, including Kate who I think is lovely, but if she feels like she is dying because of her morning sickness then I wouldn't want it bigged up to be hg as this does a great disservice to those women who do suffer and who are told its all in the mind or pull yourself together.,

FanjoTimeMammariesAndWine Wed 05-Dec-12 08:45:19


PickledInAPearTree Wed 05-Dec-12 08:51:36

Utter nasty minded bollocks.

knackeredoutmum Wed 05-Dec-12 08:53:59

sorry, for context (needed I thin because of the hmms), I suffer from awful horrendous morning sickness every single minute of the day, every single time. There is absolutely no way I would be unsympathetic to someone who suffers as I have had quite enough of implications that sickness sufferers are exaggerating when they feel like they are dying.

What I am saying on this thread is that I simply dont think this particular pregnant woman is very likely to have hg, I think she feels crap and is in hospital as a precaution as she is mother to the heir to the throne, and the papers have whipped it up as usual.

If she does have hg then she absolutely has my complete sympathy. To the OP, yes she will have lots of help that mere mortals do not have (someone cooking meals, doing the shopping, the cleaning etc) but no amount of money will stop her from feeling crap.

Cortana Wed 05-Dec-12 09:05:13

Tee had it in one "The only appropriate response to the announcement of a baby, any baby, is 'congratulations'."

"I am not sympathetic to her, but I don't spite her."

Yeah, that's why you started this thread, just no sympathy, not spiteful at all.hmm

Bunbaker Wed 05-Dec-12 09:11:56

"then "starting to feel better" by Tuesday"

Why not? I expect that she received better medical care than you did because of who she is. If she was dehydrated then being on a drip for a few days and anti emetic drugs is bound to make her feel better. So you had a shit pregnancy and therefore anyone with more money and privilege than you isn't allowed to suffer. Get that big chip off your shoulder.

I don't think this is a big publicity stunt.

soverylucky Wed 05-Dec-12 09:20:37

I went to work as a secondary school teacher one day. The next day I could not move. I went to a and e that evening but was sent home. By friday I had been admitted and was on a drip. So yes - I very much believe that the duchess has got HG.
As a pp said, there are facilities in all royal places for her to rest even have a private nurse or doctor. However the difference between me and the duchess is about 5 stone in weight. I lost lots of weight very quickly throughout my early pregnancy. Kate has NO fat reserves at all so I can't begin to imagine how she is feeling.

I really don't get why people think she is lying or would feel any sort of bitter feeling towards her. To wish pain and suffering on anyone is quite frankly bizarre!

knackeredoutmum Wed 05-Dec-12 09:21:28

Erm, Im not aware that there is any appropriate medical treatment for morning sickness, so I wouldn't expect to have received any...

Are you not reading my posts? I don't imagine she has anything whatsoever to do with what the media print, and probably not that much say in her palace statements or medical care.

Weird, did you not notice that I am not agreeing with the op???

FanjoTimeMammariesAndWine Wed 05-Dec-12 09:28:50

"Erm, Im not aware that there is any appropriate medical treatment for morning sickness, so I wouldn't expect to have received any..."

hmm again

LtXmasEve Wed 05-Dec-12 09:29:23

There is absolutely no way with hG she would be jollying around on Friday looking like she did but puking behind the scenes and feeling as crap as you do with bad morning sickness let alone hg, then "starting to feel better" by Tuesday

Absolute bollocks. HG can come on in an instant. As can all manner of pregnancy related ailments. I had Pre-Eclampsia, was feeling fine on Wednesday, was admitted Thursday and almost died on Saturday (woke up in Intensive Care on Sunday confused)

Starting to feel better - well yes, maybe because she had the appropriate treatment. Gosh, hold the front page, woman goes into hospital feeling ill, is treated and <<gasp shock>> starts to feel better.

Bitter, nasty and uncalled for. Unless you are a doctor, how about you leave the medical diagnosis to them.

PickledInAPearTree Wed 05-Dec-12 09:30:06

More bollocks. I know plenty of people hospitalised including a few from my antenatal thread.

soverylucky Wed 05-Dec-12 09:32:22

Why on earth do people base all their opinions on their own personal experiences or those of their friends of family?

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Wed 05-Dec-12 09:41:32

There's some dicks around that's for sure.

Me me me. ' when I was pregnant I had to carry on working with morning sickness, nobody fetched and carried for me.. ' blardy blah.

Yes that's because you're not a fecking princess and you didn't have HG if you could carry on working.

QuietNinjaChristmasSpecial Wed 05-Dec-12 09:47:35

I'm no fan of the royals but some of the comments on this thread are disgusting.
Walking womb? What a vile way to refer to someone. I had bad morning sickness and a horrible pregnancy. I every sympathy for her. Jealous as fuck as ttc grin but every sympathy.

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Wed 05-Dec-12 09:52:42

Technically she's not a princess though. wink

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 10:01:05

It's fairly ridiculous that a few posters can't point out the obvious fact that the reports of Kate out and about in Cambridge and Berkshire show that she has not been suffering for days. She looks as perky as a pekingese in every shot.

There's also a big difference between being 'spiteful' and saying that the palace has considerable form for spin. Very misleading spin. So if Kate is being a drama llama about morning sickness (very easy to do, I should know) then the palace may have swung in too early to give it a bigger name, to justify a hospital admission and put a damper on drama lama type comments.

Which is really bloody awful for genuine sufferers. She won't be able to disguise hg if she truly does have it, judging by the accounts of hg sufferers. So we'll see.

MsElleTow sorry to hear that. Sounds more like the situation I knew than the forward looking dawn of enlightenment described by Lt Eve. The Telegraph today reports that William will have to 'consider his career' in the forces now that a baby is on the way. You know, as one does hmm.

PickledInAPearTree Wed 05-Dec-12 10:05:15

Perhaps not everybody assumes its made up. You carry on enjoying yourself though, you must be enjoying it or you simply would read about it.

You know a lot more about her movements than I for someone who finds the whole thing rather tiresome I must say.

It's perfectly normal for the heir to the throne to have quite a short army career. Bit tricky being king and in be army and all that. Still. Why spoil a bit of outrage.

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Wed 05-Dec-12 10:07:00

Have you seen constant reportage style footage of her over those few days then, Yellowtip? Or just the short amount of time she was actually visible to the public?

5madthings Wed 05-Dec-12 10:07:50

nice comments from some...

yes hg CAN come on that quickly and i doubt they hospitalised her on a whim. they wouldnt want this publicity or the announcement of the pregnancy so early.

i am not a supporter or a hater of the royal family tbh i dont have much intetest at all.

i am saddened by some of the vitriol spoutef towards an ill pregnant woman tho. fgd hg can be life threatening, its awful, thankfully i have never had it but i would never wish any pregnancy complications on anyone, or make snide comments about it.

i wish her a speedy recovery and hope the hg is managed and the rest of her pregnancy is uneventful xx

QuietNinjaChristmasSpecial Wed 05-Dec-12 10:09:48

I went from being fine one Day to throwing up ten times a day overnight. And I didn't have hg so can believe she was out and about. And do you know what if it is just normal morning sickness then I still have sympathy for her cos normal morning sickness is fucking horrible. Leave her alone she's gonna be feeling shit enough as it is.

rockinaroundthebadtasteflump Wed 05-Dec-12 10:12:50

I'm happy for them that they're expecting a baby, just as I am for anybody else. Other than that it doesn't really affect me.

What does grate is hearing people on tv constantly refer to how much 'we all' love Kate & Wills and, particularly how much the news is giving 'all of us' a lift in these difficult times. Um actually no Kate being preggers isn't helping me pay my increasingly huge bills every month, nor is it helping me take my mind off them! hmm

PickledInAPearTree Wed 05-Dec-12 10:16:05

Yellowtip has her on CCTV grin

Pagwatch Wed 05-Dec-12 10:16:09

I don't really understand that Yellowtip. Why are you saying 'it's ridiculous that a few posters cn't point out that...' when you clealy can say it.
You have said what you think and others have disagreed or agreed.
You arn't being deleted or anything.
Am I mising something?

FBworry Wed 05-Dec-12 10:16:11

Yep, My severe morning sickness started with click of fingers. One minute I was fine, the next throwing up.I was only 4 weeks pregnant, began to feel extremely sick and was sick so went to bed.

Stayed there for 4 months.

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 10:19:17

I read the papers Turkey, it's not especially hard. Perhaps I was in Cambridge? I havent actually said I find the whole thing tiresome. I do find Kate and Pippa themselves utterly tiresome but it doesn't stop me reading about their antics and their latest execrable foray into the literary world. Or the latest Eton boyfriend. Not at all.

Is it so very hard for people to get that so far I haven't 'wished ill' on Kate nor have lots of other posters accused of the same. I don't see a necessary nexus between wishing her ill and expressing the opinion that she seems very dull (and workshy).The important thing here is to hope that an ordinary, though unpleasant, symptom of early pregnacy isn't being dollied up to give respectability to a hospital admission. That would be very unfair on proper sufferers, of which she might or might not be one. We'll see, obviously.

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Wed 05-Dec-12 10:20:13

So, the papers now have 24/7 coverage do they?

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 10:24:35

Yes Pagwatch, I meant it's ridiculous not to be able to state that demonstrable point without people jumping on one saying it's spite.

Pickled I most certainly don't wat her on my CCTV. Dreadful idea. I simply read the Telegraph and the Guardian and sometimes the DC show me more extreme stuff from the Mail.

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 10:25:01

want, not wat.

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 10:28:42

Oh ffs Turkey they say what her engagements are on which day and for how long and then they eulogise about the silly girl and the themed outfits and her nude shoes. Etc.

If she manages to work her sickness around those engagements then it comes back to the same thing - relatively speaking, she's doing pretty well. Most hg sufferers couldn't do that.

Theicingontop Wed 05-Dec-12 10:38:06

YABU, that's mean.

I personally do not give a flying fruit about the monarchy. It's all decoration. But she's still human :/

LtXmasEve Wed 05-Dec-12 10:38:38

MissElleTow: The first day he can have off is 01/03/13

You need to tell your husband to report to your Welfare Officer or PSF.

COS Air stated quite categorically that ALL RAF personnel are to take Xmas stand-down AD 20 Dec to FP 3 Jan. They are to be granted an Extra 4 days on top of their yearly leave allowance and that period is to be the minimum that they take. All the RAF personnel I have working for me at the moment are taking 3 weeks - some days from their own leave card, the rest granted.

If you want me to send you a copy of the Order I am more than happy to - just PM me. Your husband could then take it in to his bosses and demand the time off.

I hope that helps smile

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Wed 05-Dec-12 10:43:06

And there was never a moment where she was out of the pubic eye then. Wow.

But I don't pay attention to what they're up to in the small detail you appear to. I'm more than capable of taking her current illness at face value given that it makes not difference when she stated throwing up. She is a short way into a very publioc first pregnancy and she is ill with HG/severe morning sickness. When she has not an ounce of fat reserves to see her through.

Does it matter whether she'd been suffering for 2 days or less? No.

Other people have said HG can come on very very quickly so she could have been out playing jolly hockey sticks whilst feeling nauseous on Friday and throwing up spectacularly by Saturday evening.

I am no huge Royal fan, I am indifferent. I like the image Kate & William portray - that of a young couple firmly in love. I feel very sorry for Kate that she has to go through what must be a pretty shit time so publicly, just as I'd feel very sorry for a mother-at-school to have to deal with it.

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 10:44:09

LtEve so what provision is there now in Germany for pregnant wives? What's the furthest distance between the patch and the maternity hospital? Let's hope that it's down from 90km. You seem to know about this stuff. Perhaps your thing is employment rather than provision for wives, I can't tell, obviously.

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 10:48:26

Turkey, absolutely the only point about how long she's been sick is that she hasn't been sick for that long. So she hasn't been suffering that long. It's clear that the onset of both morning sickness and hg can occur in a trice.

Incidentally, how do you know they're in love? He chucked her once didn't he? They might be having massive rows away from the camera? Are they on your CCTV 24/7 ? smile

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Wed 05-Dec-12 10:48:36

But the drama really began when Kate went to stay with her parents on Friday after a visit to her former preparatory school, St Andrew’s, just a few minutes’ drive away.

At the time, she had appeared in rude health, even taking to the hockey pitch in her high-heeled boots for a quick knock-about with students.

William had been spending the first part of the weekend privately with friends at a shooting party that Kate, for now obvious reasons, had declined to join.

When he finally met up with his wife, however, he became increasingly concerned at her condition – particularly her inability to keep down any food or water.

On Monday afternoon, fearing she could become dehydrated which could prove a risk to both her and their baby, and after consulting their doctor by phone, he decided drive her to London in their Range Rover

So, she felt ill on Friday after the hockey thing, couldn't keep down food or water by the evening and was in hospital by Monday. By my reckoning that counts as suffering for days.

And I now need to wash my hands after googling her and reading the Mail grin

5madthings Wed 05-Dec-12 10:48:52

yellow what part of hg coming on exceedingly quickly do you not get? yes she was fine on fri but a lot can change in 24-48hrs with hg.

god it can with any sickness bugbactually. my ds2 was fine on sat, sun eve we had to contact ooh dr he was so poorly. same happened to him.once before with a sickness bug and he needed a drip.

hg is awful and strikes quickly. you say its not spite but why so vehemently contest that she has it? you are essentially making out she is fine and being a drama queen/making a fuss. pretty sure that even people with private healthcare wont get admitted to hospital unless necessary.

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Wed 05-Dec-12 10:51:20

Appear to be in Love then. TBH it's fairly clear from the way they interact with each other or at least as clear as these things are. The contrast between them and a couple who clearly were not in love is striking.

nannyl Wed 05-Dec-12 10:52:25

Yellow what would you know?

on Friday 23rd November i was having a good day HG wise, and for the first time in 5 weeks ate a meal [shocj]... and felt fine for some of the day (despite having HG for 6 weeks by then)

on Monday 26th November i was admitted to hospital by my GP (having puked every hour (or more) since 10am saturday and kept nothing down) for IV because i needed it.

LtXmasEve Wed 05-Dec-12 10:52:36

LtEve so what provision is there now in Germany for pregnant wives? What's the furthest distance between the patch and the maternity hospital? Let's hope that it's down from 90km. You seem to know about this stuff. Perhaps your thing is employment rather than provision for wives, I can't tell, obviously

I am a serving soldier, and a soldiers wife, and a mum!

Most of BFGermany is now closed down. Those units that are left are in towns with their own hospitals. All military and their dependants/partners are treated by the Regimental Medical Centres or in German Civilian Hospitals. All German Civilian Hospitals in the area of a military base etc have a Liaison Officer employed within it to ensure care/security/translation etc is not compromised.

In cases of specialised treatment the soldier/spouse/dependant etc will be taken to the best hospital, sometimes that will involve travelling, but that happens in UK too (ie children transferred to GOSH). When I was pregnant and when DD was born I was lucky enough to live 5 minutes from the best Kindertensive Department in North Germany, so she and I were treated there. My friend lived 30 minutes away but was transferred to this hospital as it was the best for her and her son.

Wegberg Military Hospital, where most Service Spouses gave birth in the early 90's is long gone.

I hope that is clear smile

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 11:04:03

Sounds an improvement, for sure LtEve. I didn't have a baby in Wegberg; our nominated hospital was different. But once it was suggested I have a c-section for convenience to avoid the possibility of having a baby on the road, given the very long journey, I declined further assistance from the military doctors and put myself in the safe hands and the less money conscious hands of the Germans. They were great. Most wives just went with it. No thought for danger, childcare or any of those practical things, simply cost.

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 11:11:20

And what on earth part do you not get that I am absolutely clear the onset of morning sickness and hg can be incredibly quick. Since I've said it already in terms.

Thanks for the google Turkey. We are getting slightly semantic here, at your insistence, but I doubt William buggered off to shoot pheasants on Saturday if Kate was already very ill. She's obviously been ill Sat and Sun. Could be worse.

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 11:20:26

5mad I'm not being spiteful in that I'm not in the least unsympathetic to anyone suffering from morning sickness, let alone hg, which sounds nightmarish.

Now this is lose-lose but on the one hand I hope the spin doctors aren't exaggerating her condition, since if they are that does a great disservice to sufferers of full blown hg. But then she'll be ill for months, or having the symptoms suppressed in hospital for months, which isn't great for Kate. Or they're not exaggerating and she'll be ill for months, or having the symptoms suppressed in hospital for months.

Indeed the best outcome for Kate is that she did over-react, never having experienced morning sickness before, then she can return home and is hopefully not nauseous in eight to ten weeks time.

soverylucky Wed 05-Dec-12 11:21:26

Why does it matter if she was suffering for days, suffering for a day or suffering for a few hours? Suffering is suffering.
At the risk of repeating myself I was at work just a few days before my admission to hospital. My work colleagues were gob smacked to learn that I was pregnant when I was admitted. On the days I was in work I was throwing up a couple of times before I left the house and then sporadically throughout the day. I managed to teach my classes etc but felt bloody awful and no-one knew I was pregnant so I hid it well. But just a few days later the HG kicked in and I was on a drip. My goodness I can't tell you how bad I felt. I even contemplated a termination. Once I had been on the drip for 24 hours and had god knows how many injections in my backside to stop the sickness I felt so much better - still shit but loads better.

My point is - you can feel terrible before HG but hide it well.
HG can come on quickly
A drip and medication can make you feel better. Not always but sometimes it can.

soverylucky Wed 05-Dec-12 11:23:21

Oh and to add - I was in hospital for just short of a week. Had tablets to take home to see me through the rest of the pregnancy. I was off work for 3 months but did manage to go back before my dd was born. I can assure you I did have HG. It clearly (from reading the boards on here) manifests itself in different ways for different women. But lets not let the facts stand in our way eh?

LtXmasEve Wed 05-Dec-12 11:24:11

Probably because you wrote:

Pagwatch she might have been, but which day was it we had reports of her eating her 'favourite' pudding at her old school and giving a hockey demo in high heels? Tbh even with my ordinary morning sickness all I could do was put a pillow over my head and moan. Clearly the onset of hg can be fast, but equally clearly she has absolutely not been suffering for days. The jolly pictures are there


It's fairly ridiculous that a few posters can't point out the obvious fact that the reports of Kate out and about in Cambridge and Berkshire show that she has not been suffering for days. She looks as perky as a pekingese in every shot

which seem to say you don't believe she could have HG as she was too "well" on the Friday.

If that isn't what you are insinuating, the I apologise, but it is certainly how I read your posts.

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 11:36:38

You read them wrong LtEve, not quite sure how. Both explicity make one point: that she hasn't been suffering for days. That carries with it no inference that she therefore can't have hg. It raises only the possibility that, given she's not encountered even ordinary morning sickness before, she might well be taken aback by it's sudden onset and utter vileness and over-react.

Pickles101 Wed 05-Dec-12 11:38:29

This is why I hate these sorts of news stories. Not because I despise Kate, but because everyone comes crawling out of the woodwork with their 'experience' to hand.
Fuck off Kirstie

soverylucky Wed 05-Dec-12 11:39:59

It raises only the possibility that, given she's not encountered even ordinary morning sickness before, she might well be taken aback by it's sudden onset and utter vileness and over-react.

It is not the only possibility at all. It is a possibility but I think the doctors who she had access to prior to her being taken to hospital would know the difference between ordinary morning sickness and HG. Would they really have taken her to hospital with this media scrum if they could afford it?

soverylucky Wed 05-Dec-12 11:40:56

Tbh - I think people are backtracking. It is clear you think that she is not as ill as is being implied. Why it matters to you is not clear.

soverylucky Wed 05-Dec-12 11:42:22

*It raises only the possibility that, given she's not encountered even ordinary morning sickness before, she might well be taken aback by it's sudden onset and utter vileness and over-react.

It is not the only possibility at all. It is a possibility but I think the doctors who she had access to prior to her being taken to hospital would know the difference between ordinary morning sickness and HG. Would they really have taken her to hospital with this media scrum if they could afford it? *

Have read that back and apolgise that I misunderstood your point. Just getting so angry that someone is questioning the diagnosis!

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 11:47:02

soverylucky oh dear. This is getting heavy going. My wording raises only the possibility of that scenario (ie nothing more). Not that that is the only possibility.

FBworry Wed 05-Dec-12 11:47:06

I think its GOOD this condition is gaining more awareness via people like Kate and Kirstie.

When I was ill, I got the impression some people thought I was exaggerating my extreme sickness as " everyone else I know wasn't as bad as you".Yes, well neither was I in my first pregnancy! Second one was a different story.

I think this condition been highlighted by women in the public eye is good for both awareness and perhaps encouraging people to do more research and find solutions.

picketywick Wed 05-Dec-12 11:49:01

Could anyone imagine a royal family which was not extremely rich?

soverylucky Wed 05-Dec-12 11:49:11

Yes I get that now yellow hence the apology I posted.

It does not detract from the fact that you are coming across quite badly as you clearly feel that there is more to this than is being said. You seem unable to take the story at face value. Why is that? What could Catherine have to gain from this?

soverylucky Wed 05-Dec-12 11:50:09

fbworry I do agree that more awareness is needed of HG. This thread alone has proved that people think they now facts about this condition that are not facts at all.

soverylucky Wed 05-Dec-12 11:50:36

know not now

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 11:57:04

Cross-posted, sorry. I'm not hugely bothered about coming across badly, I'm sure I do so routinely.

I happen to think there's a good chance that this is all precautionary and that Kate has morning sickness not hg, which if proved correct in a few weeks time will result in trivialising hg. It's that simple.

pickety there are a great many ex-royal family members around the world who are far from rich, even poor. Courtesy of various depositions, revolutions and wars.

soverylucky Wed 05-Dec-12 12:00:48

But how will you know in a few weeks time? I was in hospital for under a week and was able to return to work before the baby was born. I think the fact that she is hospital on a drip says a lot.
I feel sorry for her that if she does go back to public engagements people will say "oh she wasn't really ill" if she stays in her flat she is " lazy and workshy"
She can't win but I bet all she is worried about is the health of her unborn child - pretty much like any mum to be.

Pickles101 Wed 05-Dec-12 12:14:35

Am I just thick or... hasn't what people have said on here about HG contrast with Kirstie's account of events?

Kirstie also compared HG to chemotherapy "without wanting to frighten us". Ok, ok, so chemo makes you feel sick, but that aside it is a fucking awful poor comparison.

She's not exactly provided a fantastic case for HG awareness.

soverylucky Wed 05-Dec-12 12:19:56

I have read Kirsties account. She ended up on a drip but was only in hospital for 24 hours so I don't doubt she had HG just not as bad as others.

5madthings Wed 05-Dec-12 12:20:26

there was a poster on this thread who hashg and chemotherapy, she said the hg made her feel worse. it may have been om one of the other threads about this, thete are a few...

anyway like all things how you feel is very individual, some people are affected more by some illmesses and treatments.

obviously with pregnancy you should be getting a baby at the end of it which is something positive. with chemotherapy you are trying to treat cancer, some may feel that the sickness is worth it? but it seems (to me at least) a more miserable place to be starting from ie no baby at the end to look forward to. ultimately its futile trying to compare illnesses etc esp with pregnancy.

FBworry Wed 05-Dec-12 12:22:07

I think the chemo comparison was in poor taste.

However everyone experiences these things differently. I wasn't classed as HG as I could keep water down and never was hospitalised but it was still horrific.I don't think I was as bad as kirstie by any means though.

I was lucky as eventually they gave my tablets but apparently they are reluctant to normally do it due to cost! Seems unfair that its a lottery if your allowed access to medication or not.

FBworry Wed 05-Dec-12 12:24:33

Too add if the medication really is that expensive they should research cheaper alternatives. Its quite worrying knowing your baby isn't getting any proper nutrients when you cant keep anything down.

5madthings Wed 05-Dec-12 12:27:41

that should say there was a poster who has had hg and chemotherapy

nannyl Wed 05-Dec-12 12:29:40

do you realise that some of the drugs they use to treat HG are the same drugs they us to treat the sickness with chemotherapy?

I had them too when i was in hospital with HG last week...

perhaps that is why it actually is comparable, in the sense they can use they same drugs to treat the condition?

Yes ive herd that they cost £20 per dose, so £60 a day.... yes that would be very expensive over 9months

Pickles101 Wed 05-Dec-12 12:37:47

Antiemetics are prescribed for lots of things, not just chemotherapy and certainly not just HG. But a pregnancy often ends (we can presume happily) with a baby. Chemotherapy, or rather what it's treating, doesn't often end so well.
And I think it's important to remember that sickness & vomiting is just one of many horrible side effects of chemotherapy.

I can't believe anyone thinks Kate isn't as ill as what is being implied.

She almost certainly wouldn't have wanted to be hospitalised on a whim, given the fact she and William didn't want to announce the pregnancy yet, because of the early stages. Like most couples they wanted to keep it quiet in these crucial first weeks. Yet when Kate was hospitalised, they knew they would have to announce it earlier.

And to refer to the earlier 'brainwashed' post, I am no royalist (far form from it) and I find constant newspaper articles about what Kate (and her sister) are wearing tiresome. I'm most certainly NOT a member of the Kate Middleton fan club.

I am however, a compassionate human being, who feels sorry for her that she's having to experience this.

MolotovCocktail Wed 05-Dec-12 12:56:11

Babbas, I'm 100% with you on this.

Catherine is pregnant with another entitled aristocrat who will want for nothing in his/her life.

No waiting around crowded hospital waiting rooms for Kate's ante-natal appointments; no justifying the reason to an OB for an ELCS (because she won't be puffing, panting and pushing this baby out); all the help she needs post-baby. No money worries.

I don't want to hear/read about the pregnancy, either.


Vickibee Wed 05-Dec-12 12:56:35

Tess -Other sufferers are not given the same treatment - I was very ill and told to get on with it. I was ill for the whole of the pg and finally got medical help after 9 months cos no one believes how bad it is. I had to go to work too and was laughed at by my colleagues as I spent most of my time in the loo but couldn't afford to be on SSP. At least Kate doesn't have to worry about anything else and is being pampered

Vickibee Wed 05-Dec-12 12:57:08

sorry shd say 8 mo

nannyl Wed 05-Dec-12 13:10:44

i would say the nhs have treated me and my HG extreamly well

never have i been told to get on with it

a couple of weeks ago i saw a dr 7 times in 9 days.... i am often in daily and told to come back tomorrow. i am "allowed" drugs

and have been well looked after when ive needed to be admitted too, with kind sympathetic drs who have got on with making better.

im very greatful for the way nhs have dealt with me.

i was signed off at 6weeks last time, and never went back

tbh i couldnt have made it to work regardless,

Janeatthebarre Wed 05-Dec-12 13:24:14

I feel sorry for Kate. I remember having a very bad reaction to morphine once and being really really nauseous in hospital for days and days and not able to keep anything down and feeling soooo miserable and uncomfortable. So I can only imagine what it must be like to know you could be facing months of that.

Re the minute by minute accounts of the pregnancy, I agree that kind of thing can get very irritating. But the media wouldn't do it if there wasn't an audience for it. Some people seem to live vicariously through the royal family. You can bet your bottom dollar that some people will have their knitting needles out already while aome expectant mothers will be waiting with bated breath to see what kind of cot/buggy/car seat Kate and William choose so that they can rush out and slavishly copy them.

Vickibee - as I said in my first post on this thread, my best friend had HG during both her pregnancies, and she received exceptional NHS care.

I guess it's the postcode lottery.

That still shouldn't be used as stick to beat Kate with, when she is suffering.

sue52 Wed 05-Dec-12 13:29:41

Sorry that she is ill as I would be if it were any other woman, that saying, it does tend to push more newsworthy stories into the background.

LtXmasEve Wed 05-Dec-12 13:44:31

Molotov: because she won't be puffing, panting and pushing this baby out and you know this how?

and as for the rest - well that applies to anyone who can afford to pay for private care - not just the "entitled aristocrats".

You sound so very bitter, how draining.

funkybuddah Wed 05-Dec-12 13:51:59

Shes not the first preghnant person to have it tough and she wont be the last, there doesnt need to be any reporting until she has the baby.

As for it being heir to the throne, yes it is but the Royals dont rule the country anymore so heirs arent really that important (apart from tourism money)

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 13:52:01

LtEve Kate is most certainly not an aristocrat shock.

ooer Wed 05-Dec-12 13:55:10

I am not all that interested in the details of her pregnancy but I do feel sympathy for her (a) as a human being because she is having probs and (b) precisely because of the minute by minute account. Surely even if you are royal there are some things you would rather keep private?

perceptionreality Wed 05-Dec-12 13:59:55

I haven't read the whole thread. But I do agree with Greensleeves that the monarchy should be removed. Except on here, some people don't like that thought and I was kindly told by some poster around the time of the Jubilee that I obviously make no contribution to society, otherwise I would want to celebrate the Queen's existence hmm

I don't have anything against William and Kate at all - there is nothing to suggest they aren't nice people but that doesn't mean the monarchy should continue to exist.

I find it utterly sickening that people like David Cameron go around spouting about the undeserving poor and how they are parasites when at the other end of the scale are the undeserving rich - people connected to the Royal family who aren't high profile enough to perform royal service but live off the tax payer, which they are entitled to do, why exactly?

How exactly does that make any sense?

LtXmasEve Wed 05-Dec-12 14:03:12

Yellowtip, I know, I was quoting MolotovCocktail.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Wed 05-Dec-12 14:03:31

The aristocrat was referring to the royal baby I'm guessing.

themottledlizard Wed 05-Dec-12 14:17:58

I agree with Yellowtip!!!

I don't understand how anyone can know it is hyperemisis when it has only been going on for a few days. Obviously she needs to be in hospital because she is dehydrated and ill but it doesn't necessarily mean she now has hyperemisis.... it may be the onset of normal (albeit horrible) morning sickness coupled with a stomach bug for instance, plus being tired, very thin etc. So she may well 'get better' soon (especially with all the care she is getting). It may be just the press hamming it up to hyperemisis, she herself may not think she's got it, just feels terribly ill. It will do a great disservice to all those who really do have the condition if she hasn't and then recovers enough to carry on with her duties, out and about looking glowing and healthy. You'll never hear the end of her 'overcoming' the condition through sheer wonderfulness.

I feel desperately sorry for anyone suffering from hyperemisis. I've had 3 DC and was absolutely fine during my pregnancies. If I had suffered that condition I don't think I would ever have had more than 1 child.

themottledlizard Wed 05-Dec-12 14:22:39

And another thing.....

If it does turn out to be hyperemisis, then let's hope there will be a bit more sympathy/medical intervention given out to all those other sufferers who aren't royal.

BrightenMyNorthernSky Wed 05-Dec-12 14:27:59

If she's managed to get dehydrated to the point of being hospitalised though, presumably that is proper hyperemesis? I had HG in my second pregnancy - in the scheme of things I had it "mildly", in that I was only hopsitalised once for 3 days and the rest of the time could manage at home (if I took the drugs, lay in a quiet room doing nothing while my mum took care of my toddler, if nobody ate around me, or tried to get me to read anything, or tried to get me to have an in-depth conversation). From 5-20 weeks I did not eat anything constituting a meal (just full fat coke and the odd bite of something), and threw up numerous times a day. But they dipped my urine a lot and after the initial hospitalisation, I never had ketones again (which show that you are dehydrated). So I think if she's got to the point of dehydration it must be more than morning sickness and a tummy bug?

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 14:29:16

Thank you mottled. Obviously a person of sound common sense smile

But on another thread in chat, Kate is apparently using a surrogate and this is all a smokescreen for that.

In fact a warming pan baby type replay may be a terrific idea. We might then stand at least an outside chance of getting an heir who isn't irredeemably workshy and irredeemably thick.

AmberSocks Wed 05-Dec-12 14:30:09

I personally dont give a shit if shes pregnant,i hate the whole concept of the royal family and think it should be abolished,i hope she gets through pregnancy and that the baby is ok,as much i hope any woman and baby is ok!

LtXmasEve Wed 05-Dec-12 14:31:12

We might then stand at least an outside chance of getting an heir who isn't irredeemably workshy and irredeemably thick

You really are fucking horrible aren't you?

FBworry Wed 05-Dec-12 14:36:09

Well I hope the baby inherits her dignity and grace.

Theres a lot to be said for dignity isn't there?

themottledlizard Wed 05-Dec-12 14:38:24

I also agree with Yellowtip about the Palace PR peddling lies over the years.( I am old enough to remember all the Charles/Camilla carrying on denials making out poor old Diana to be a loon. Everyone's conveniently forgotton about that, now he's married to Camilla.)

Diana btw had dreadful sickness, had absolutely nil sympathy then from the Royals. At least they are being a bit kinder to Kate. Seem to have learnt their lesson. (runs away to read rumours about surrogate smile)

Mumofthreeteens Wed 05-Dec-12 14:39:53

Feel very sorry for them that their secret is now public. Poor girl feeling so ill and having the world's press pointing their lenses at her hospital room. Really the press have learnt nothing from Diana and it is happening all over again. I wish them both well and hope poor Kate, like I would any pregnant mother, feels a lot better very soon.

Frontpaw Wed 05-Dec-12 14:41:26

Well, there was so much speculation anyway, maybe now the press will respect heir wishes and leave the hell alone. I am quite amazed that Buckingham Palace doesn't have a functioning medical suite anyway.

LtXmasEve Wed 05-Dec-12 14:50:09

I don't understand how anyone can know it is hyperemisis when it has only been going on for a few days

That will be because you have a distinct lack of years and years of medical training I expect.

making out poor old Diana to be a loon

'Poor Old Diana' was as manipulative and as media savvy as the rest of them. The press is a tool to be used, and used it is to great effect.

Diana btw had dreadful sickness, had absolutely nil sympathy then from the Royals

I didn't realise you were a close personal friend of Diana Spencer. Did she tell you herself?

themottledlizard Wed 05-Dec-12 14:55:46

How do they decide if it is hyperemisis or not then? (bows to superior medical knowledge)

I suspect there is an element of 'wait and see' there is with other medical conditions once they have been stabilised.

perceptionreality Wed 05-Dec-12 14:58:18

Diana was only 19 when she married into the royal family - I doubt she was media savvy at that age, she probably developed that side of herself in order to survive. Kate is more fortunate in that, from where I sit it appears that William actually loves her, plus she's older and has had plenty of time to know what she's in for.

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 15:14:13

LtEve you do seem rather fawny tbh. Is Kate your Colonel? smile

If we're going into what's fucking this and what's fucking that then I happen to think you're fucking naive to pretend that Kate isn't workshy. She was ludicrously workshy for nigh on ten years, despite an adequate education. Spoiled baby. She could have piddled around in an art gallery or auction house for a couple of days a week and done the whole Sloane gig, which usually involves at least light work. But instead we get peddled this baloney about helping out with Party Pieces. My Aunt Fanny. Especially since the story about why she did fuck all kept changing as the Middletons and Kate were told what to say.

On the thick front. Well, er..... maybe listen to them speak? William is tolerable, Kate is bad (really quite bad) and you've only got to read a snippet of Pippa's book to see what kind of stock we're filtering into the gene pool. Dear me.

William seems pleasant enough but not worth a kingdom. His dad screwed up royally. Nothing left to admire, let alone revere.

If that's fucking horrible, then so be it.

PickledInAPearTree Wed 05-Dec-12 15:17:25

Yes, you are coming across as horrible. Very much so.

It's quite confusing your spending such a lot of energy on being pretty vile, whereas surely the sensible thing to do if you find this all so bile worthy is to switch the tv over.


LtXmasEve Wed 05-Dec-12 15:32:59

Yellowtip. No, she isn't.

If that's fucking horrible, then so be it. No, I said you were fucking horrible.

I didn't realise you were a personal confidant of the Middletons. Do they know how you feel about their family?

I'm also surprised that you think it is easy to pass your advanced pilots, advanced search and rescue and sea rescue examinations, as Prince William did. Lots of people are not confident at public speaking, that does not make them unintelligent.

I'm not naive or fawning, I'm just not comfortable being vile about people I do not know, for the sake of it.

FunBagFreddie Wed 05-Dec-12 15:35:51

Bored of the Royals full stop. Couldn't care less about her pregnancy, it's just another parasite on the way, destined to live off tax payer's hard earned money. They are just upper class benefit scroungers imo.

themottledlizard Wed 05-Dec-12 15:42:10

I still want to know how it is diagnosed? Does it not need to go on longer than, say, a week before it officially becomes hyperemisis? Because she could actually have the norovirus on top of normal pregnancy sickness (and so become dehydrated and ill) and then revert back to what is classed as normal pregnancy sickness (as opposed to hyperemesis).

I don't want to be taken to the Tower for suggesting that though......

VerityClinch Wed 05-Dec-12 15:48:21

The thing is, if Kate didn't lurk on MN before, she's bound to now she's going to be a mum, isn't she?

And this is what she's going to see.

Nice introduction, huh?

5madthings Wed 05-Dec-12 16:00:23

well myself and four of my children have had norovirus in the last week.

you tend to get diahrrea, vommiting, stomach cramps, temp, shivering cold alternating with being hot etc. so virus type symptoms rather than just being sick, retching etv.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Wed 05-Dec-12 16:18:29

yellowtip what's with the vitriol towards Kate? confused

I don't get it.

Did she steal William away from you or summat.

perceptionreality Wed 05-Dec-12 16:18:58

It's silly to say that people are being 'vile' - this is an institution that we are supposed to support 'just because'. Some people don't agree with it and they are entitled to their opinion! Particularly when their taxes support the existence of the monarchy.

soverylucky Wed 05-Dec-12 16:43:43

I am all for a debate on the pros and cons of the monarchy and whether they should be abolished or not but this thread started about having sympathy for a pregnant woman who was not well. Catherine's HG is a totally separate issue.

HG is diagnosed by a doctor. It can be treated. You can get better.

FunBagFreddie Wed 05-Dec-12 16:59:36

this is an institution that we are supposed to support 'just because'. Some people don't agree with it and they are entitled to their opinion! Particularly when their taxes support the existence of the monarchy.

I bet they have hundreds of flat screen TV's - and I know for a fact that Prince Charles has goats. angry

5madthings Wed 05-Dec-12 17:01:58

you dont have to support the monarchy no-one is saying that. but this is a woman ill and suffering and posters are saying and insinuating that she is making it up, being dramatix/drama queen. as well as other nasty comments about her. she is a preg woman who is sufferi g so yes i do think.its a bit bloody mean to be so nasty about her. hg is awful.

MolotovCocktail Wed 05-Dec-12 17:03:11

Hey, I'm not bitter! I've given birth to two babies: one vaginally and one by ELCS. Both courtesy of the NHS.

I'm a realist. The Royal Fanjo will stay intact! It's kind of obvious ... There will be some complication cited to the public (genuine or not) which means the baby will bs born by ELCS.

I'm not here to debate the merits and demerits of each mode birth. But I'm certain of the care she'll receive and it will be nothing like the care most women in the UK receive.

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 17:10:12

Pickled I'm not one of the ones who said I don't want to hear about the royals. I'm fine hearing about them. Never said any different.

LtEve you do seem to have a habit of telling people 'I didn't realise you were a doctor' 'I didn't realise you knew Diana personally' 'I didn't realise you were a personal acquaintance of Carole and Mike' etc. etc. Of course you don't realise bcause you have absoltely no way of knowing. You sound like a peevish seven year old. It's a bit silly to imagine everyone on MN is an island. Of course there are doctors, of course there are people who know people. Why wouldn't there be? You appear to be a spokesperson for the British military establishment from what I can read. I've never queried that. What's your take on the army's treatment of Danny Nightingale then, since you're clearly in a position of power?

Janeatthebarre Wed 05-Dec-12 17:14:52

I can understand people being totally indifferent to Kate and William and their baby.

I can understand people being irritated by the media coverage.

But I can't understand some of the really personal and spiteful comments being made about them and about Kate's family. Some of the posts on here sound very bitter.

LtXmasEve Wed 05-Dec-12 17:18:21

No yellowtip, just pointing out that the statements people (like you) are making as if they are FACT are nothing of the sort, unless they can be said with a form of authority ie personal or professional knowledge. Did you not understand that?

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 17:20:50

No, Kate didn't pinch William from me Everlong. I think a relationship between the two of us would be age inappropriate, even though I like to think I'm pretty liberal. His dad does live in one of our old family houses but he paid good money for that so I can't really snip. (Ok, a tiny bit envying though, since it's been all prettied up - especially if he's brought in goats).

Completely agree Molotov. Then there can be a seamless transition from pity about bigged up hg to pity about c-sectioning. Inspired! Oh, and she can have even more weeks off. Ideal!

Still want to know more about the putative surrogate though. No smoke without fire, eh? It's been done before.

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 17:23:14

Tell me what exactly I've stated as FACT then*Eve*. I would only state as fact something I know as fact, either through personal or professional knowledge.

Janeatthebarre Wed 05-Dec-12 17:26:07

Still want to know more about the putative surrogate though. No smoke without fire, eh? [QUOTE]

I think you will find, Yellowtip that there is often smoke without fire.

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 17:31:50

I do hope not Jane. I'd love a surrogate scandal. The papers could call it Surrogate smile

MsElleTow Wed 05-Dec-12 17:38:03

LtEve, DH finishes at 12.30 on 21/12 for Christmas and goes back to work on 3rd January 2013. Unfortunately my surgeon is not doing any routine cases during that time! He has begged and pleaded today and has been granted 1 day off for me to have my procedure, as long as the date fits in with them. Despite having 10 days annual leave left, he has been told he will have to work late a few days to make up for it!shock angry.

mignonette Wed 05-Dec-12 17:43:02

Whilst I wish the well as fellow human beings I am not pleased at having to support yet another 'Royal' through my hard earned taxes. I'd rather it went to benefit recipients or other social welfare schemes not to the richest benefit claimants in the World TBH.

And spare me the 'Oh but some of the 'Royals' like Anne work so hard'.

No they do not. The oft quoted approximate 300 engagements/year bandied about doesn't sound so impressive when a quick peek at the Court Circular reveals that in fact a day may see 4-5 brief visits in one area. The reality is a working year of about 100 days. Not so dedicated is it?

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 17:48:57

Eve said she could fix it for you MsElle. FACT. I'd give it a whirl. She sounds very important. Your DH shouldn't have to beg. I doubt William did. And he's like any other I think a previous poster said (as FACT).

gwenniebee Wed 05-Dec-12 17:51:41

I haven't read the whole thread so I apologise if this has been said, but - do you think Kate wants you to have a minute by minute account of one of the most private elements of her life? I feel really sorry for her.

mignonette Wed 05-Dec-12 17:56:23

It is interesting that out of all the posters on here, most claiming to be Royalist or supportive of the monarchy cannot even get her name right. It is not Kate. She doesn't refer to herself by that name.

Yet Molotov who appears not to be a Monarchist, manages to at least call her by her given and preferred name.

Ironic that.


I call her Kate because I am a cheeky peasant and can't be arsed to do more typing than strictly necessary.

Maybe others call her Kate because they really truly know her based on what they have read in the DM

mignonette Wed 05-Dec-12 18:06:39

Chaz Love the attitude grin

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 18:12:43

Well I doggedly call her Kate because the engagement day insistence that she now be known as Catherine was too silly for words. So I won't do it. Except ironically. I was trying not to be ironic on this thread. I hoped Molotov was.

mignonette Wed 05-Dec-12 18:15:09

It's all getting very meta-ironic confused grin.

LtXmasEve Wed 05-Dec-12 18:22:57

Hi MissElleTow, I'm glad he is having leave after all, I was worried when you said he wasn't off until March! Sounds a nightmare though, I hope it goes well.

LtXmasEve Wed 05-Dec-12 18:38:06

Oh, and I called her Kate because everyone else did and I didn't want to be sneering and pedantic.

MolotovCocktail Wed 05-Dec-12 18:41:22

I wasn't being ironic when I called her Catherine.

Bunbaker Wed 05-Dec-12 18:57:12

"it does tend to push more newsworthy stories into the background."

Not on tonight's news it didn't. It was just a tiny incidental piece well down after the headlines.

"I can understand people being totally indifferent to Kate and William and their baby. I can understand people being irritated by the media coverage.
But I can't understand some of the really personal and spiteful comments being made about them and about Kate's family. Some of the posts on here sound very bitter."

I agree. There are far too many chips on shoulders on this thread. So they have more money and are more privileged than we do. So what. OH and I aren't rich either but we don't resent those that have a higher income than we do. Guess what - we are happy with our lot. It is so time consuming and negative to worry about others who appear to have a "better life". I am just a lowly commoner and had a high risk pregnancy, but I had excellent care throughout courtesy of the HS, and was lucky enough not to suffer at all from any kind of pregnancy sickness.

Those of you who are so bitter and hateful a) Get over yourselves b) Stop being so vitriolic and nasty.

nokidshere Wed 05-Dec-12 19:08:55

I'm still laughing at a thread with a title of "not wanting a minute by minute account of Kate's pregnancy" running to 17 Pages

PickledInAPearTree Wed 05-Dec-12 19:16:03

My mother is a huge fan of the royal family and she dosent follow Kate's movements half as well as some of you outraged posters.

Tis funny!

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 19:28:13

Bunbaker it's not especially thought through to say that the detractors like myself have chips. It's entirely possible that some us (myself for one) find the whole royal roadshow lost all vestige of credibility with the witchunt of Diana and the tampax tapes etc. And the repellant pr of Charles' lackeys, such as Nicholas Soames doing down Diana so publicly and going on prime time tv to call her a loon. Others may be more lofty and object to the monarchy on philosophical and political lines. It's not a question of chip, it's a question of questioning what their point is. And when an able bodied reasonably educated woman like Kate elects not to work for ten years so that she can 'be available' for william - in this day and age - some of us may wonder what the hell it is about these pointless people that we're supposed to revere.

I for one revere bugger all. It all seems a bit Bennety to me.

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 19:29:43

Do we 'follow'? It's more osmotic.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Wed 05-Dec-12 19:29:55

William calls her Kate. Ive seen news clips with him calling it her.

soverylucky Wed 05-Dec-12 19:31:37

So now a woman has to work does she? Look she can do what she wants. Her husband works in the RAF and she decides to stay at home. Can't see what is wrong with that. Many on mn do exactly the same thing.

Bunbaker Wed 05-Dec-12 19:37:17

Yellowtip But why do you care? I don't.

noddyholder Wed 05-Dec-12 19:37:29

This is another topic where the MN interest far outweighs anything I can see among RL peers. My mates just aren't interested

gwenniebee Wed 05-Dec-12 19:37:42

I've had time to read a bit more now, and I'm really surprised at some of you being so vitriolic towards people you don't know. Be anti-monarchy by all means, but don't make such unpleasant remarks when you have nothing other than hearsay to base them on.

FWIW I was at uni in St Andrews at the same time as the couple; they got their degrees on merit, not because it wasn't good pr for them to fail. So, yellowtip, they're not that stupid. My brother did the AAC course that Harry did and it was bloody hard work and requires quite some considerable brain power. I imagine the RAF training is similarly rigorous.

noddyholder Wed 05-Dec-12 19:38:36

Nice introduction? Was this serious or (as I suspect )a p take ?

3monkeys3 Wed 05-Dec-12 19:39:19

Those banging on about tax payers money - watch this:

true cost

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 19:49:46

soverylucky it's not to do with now, it's the utter lack of dignity and desperation of doing bugger whilst single for ten years whilst 'waiting' for William. Not a great role model at all.

Bunbaker I only care because there's an expectation (especially on MN) that one should fawn. Absurd. Why would one fawn to someone like Kate? Or to half of the others?

gwennie some graduates of St. A might have considerable brain power but others less so. My parents were both post war graduates of St. A; I know plenty of others.

AfterEightMintyy Wed 05-Dec-12 20:00:50

Roffling at all the time people have spent arguing the toss on this thread when they supposedly aren't interested in the story!

amillionyears Wed 05-Dec-12 20:01:51

Yellowtip, even if Kate didnt do much before she married him, I dont think she is going to have much choice about working until way into old age, long past you or your DH I expect.

Do you fawn or respect anyone?

Do you think you believe what you want to believe?

I appreciate I am late to this thread, so you dont need to answer me if you dont feel like it.

PickledInAPearTree Wed 05-Dec-12 20:04:43

Why should a person have to work of they are in a financial position not to do so, because YOU don't like it?

How bizarre.

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 20:11:24

I have huge admiration and respect for a great many people amillionyears, just not Kate.

Oh come on Pickled, how lame for an able bodied girl to do absolutely zilch (not even charitable work) for nearly ten years. Please.

Maybe, just maybe, Kate/Catherine/The Duchess having HG will help bring it into the public eye more and we'll see more understanding of HG/severe "morning" sickness.

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 05-Dec-12 20:28:57

Tess I said the exact same thing on here on Monday night, and lets face it the media have been all over HG for 3 days now. So if just one woman gets better treatment from her GP/Hospital/Employer that will be a positive outcome.

But not as good an opportunity to give the DofC a damn good shoeing though right?

PickledInAPearTree Wed 05-Dec-12 20:45:27

You have an almost unhealthy sounding dislike of this woman!

I'm getting scared.confused

FBworry Wed 05-Dec-12 21:18:56

I agree pickled! Its almost unhinged. confused

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 21:30:02

Oh don't be so absurd. I'm simply standing my ground in the face of abject fawning. If we're expected to bank roll and look up to the royals and those who marry in such as Kate, then they should at least have done something or be something to command respect. Ten years of idleness doesn't cut it that's all. It's not even personal; it's about the institution and the idiocy of fawning over very, very unexceptional people. I can't think of a single peer from university who just hung up their boots after graduating in order to 'be there' for a man. It really is impossibly weak. So I won't fawn. Simples.

FBworry Wed 05-Dec-12 21:31:54

Well I like Kate smile

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Wed 05-Dec-12 21:35:42

Only ten years of idleness!? I can top that easy.

So what? What does it matter to you?

Yellowtip Wed 05-Dec-12 21:46:01

Everlong I don't think you're expecting to be bankrolled and deferred to by the entire British public are you, so it's hardly comparable.

Very little can change my mind, so there's little to be achieved in pursuing the point.

Ther'e also little point in talking about sisterhood ans solidarity when Kate behaves like an absolute doormat for years.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Wed 05-Dec-12 21:49:00

I can live in hope wink

mignonette Thu 06-Dec-12 01:05:44

The reason why there is such a rabid level of interest in this pregnancy and ugly intrusive coverage is not because of republicans. It is caused and perpetuated by the very people who claim to support the crown. They watch the news, buy the printed media and wave their little flags at the roadside. All of you who are so excited about this and eager for news are the fuel to the fire.

Morloth Thu 06-Dec-12 02:01:23

None of the coverage or other people being treated badly or not is actually her doing is it?

I get not liking the monarchy, I get not being interested and wanting the press to give it a rest.

I don't get the spite directed at her personally.

As far as I can see she hasn't actually done or said anything that would deserve any of that.

Why does she need to be a role model? I am not 'fawning'. She might be a complete and utter bitch for all I know, and that is just the point, I know fuck all about her and I would be willing to place a large bet on the same being true of most of the other poster's on MN.

What I 'know' (and even that is suspect) is that she is pregnant and feeling sick enough to be in hospital. That is unfortunate and I can remember my own morning sickness and think 'oh that is a shame, I hope she is feeling better soon'.

squoosh Thu 06-Dec-12 02:16:04

People who insist on calling her Catherine are hilarious. There's no need to bow and scrape, her husband calls her Kate, her parents call her Kate. Her name is Kate.

Stop being so deferential, it's embarrassing.

I have no interest in the royal family and despise the mind numbing commentary that has only but begun. However I wish her all the best with what sounds like a tough pregnancy.

FanjoTimeMammariesAndWine Thu 06-Dec-12 08:12:53

Her husband and parents call her Catherine.

Noone calls her Kate in her personal life.

Just so you know wink

squoosh Thu 06-Dec-12 10:25:56

Wonder why he often refers to her as Kate then.

PickledInAPearTree Thu 06-Dec-12 10:36:03

Exactly what morloth said.

PickledInAPearTree Thu 06-Dec-12 10:36:12

Exactly what morloth said.

PickledInAPearTree Thu 06-Dec-12 10:36:32


BendyBobsBrusselsSprouts Thu 06-Dec-12 10:38:36

Morloth Spot on posting. Well said. Thank goodness someone did.

Yellowtip Thu 06-Dec-12 10:56:45

She's not in hospital any more though, she's back at home. Already. Still, a nasty three days.

FanjoTimeMammariesAndWine Thu 06-Dec-12 10:59:12

Squoosh, he has said he never calls her Kate in private and no one does

Yellowtip Thu 06-Dec-12 11:06:10

She probably wanted to get back to work.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Thu 06-Dec-12 11:10:46

fanjo I've seen an interview where William referred to her as Kate.

How are you so sure? are you Pippa? wink

FanjoTimeMammariesAndWine Thu 06-Dec-12 11:13:25

well I saw one where he said he never refers to her as Kate wink

Maybe he is fickle?

FanjoTimeMammariesAndWine Thu 06-Dec-12 11:15:44

He possibly refers to her as Kate in interviews as obviously that is what the media call her, but he did say she is known to him and her family as Catherine.

But why am I wasting headspace on this.

PeshwariNaan Thu 06-Dec-12 11:15:45

YABU. HG is no joke. The media need to give her some space. I've been severely I'll for most of my pregnancy. just because she's famous doesn't mean I don't feel sorry for her. it's truly grim.

laptopdancer Thu 06-Dec-12 11:15:55

Ive seen the interview whre he calls her Kate too

But why am I wasting headspace on this.

I've just asked myself the same question confused

Its clearly displacement activity. wink

FanjoTimeMammariesAndWine Thu 06-Dec-12 11:24:41

Not that I believe the Daily Fail of course

"The royal girlfriend has apparently asked that everyone call her Catherine, a name with a much more formal ring and a queenly history.
Some say that Miss Middleton, 26, is trying to give herself a more formal image, befitting a young woman who could one day be married to a king.
But others point out that she has never been called Kate in private - not by her family, friends, schoolmates or university pals."

The press has been blamed for giving Catherine Elizabeth Middleton her nickname, when her relationship with the prince was confirmed in 2004.
"No one ever referred to her as Kate - ever," says a former classmate. "It doesn't irritate her, even when the photographers shout her name out. She's not so precious as to correct them.

FanjoTimeMammariesAndWine Thu 06-Dec-12 11:25:05
Yellowtip Thu 06-Dec-12 11:25:14

biscuit Quite interesting that the fact that she's already at home after only a couple of days is being ignored. The obgyns won't be taking any chances either. What a joke. Lets hope this doesn't diminish the difficulties faced by those with serious hg. As mottled and I said above.

FanjoTimeMammariesAndWine Thu 06-Dec-12 11:25:29

She can call herself Fanuela McVadge for all i care though tbh

MordionAgenos Thu 06-Dec-12 11:26:20

Between the Diana worshippers (yes, she was a Loon, also irredeemably thick) and the Kate worshippers (also probably on the way to loon-dom despite some very sensible precautions such as waiting a good long time before committing to enter the circus etc) this thread is, itself, pretty loony.

When I was pregnant with DD1 they thought I had HG - catclysmic sickness, came on very quickly, so bad and violent I was puking up blood from my tim or throat lining.......I knew it wasn't hg. I knew that I'd accidentally ingested probably only a tiny amount of milk or lactic acid (probably from production line contamination) and that combined with normal morning sickness had resulted in this pretty spectacular multicoloured performance art event. But they were determined it was hg till they realised it wasn't. I still needed a drip etc but obviously once they realised it was an extreme allergic reaction I had appropriate medication and was out of hospital within a week (and back at work within 10 days). Kate might not have had hg but she probably did have something to need a drip and having been there (and again with pregnancy 3, an allergic reaction to anaesthetic that time) - it really won't have been nice.

I am about as far from a royalist as its possible to get not least because I and my kids are banned from marrying one so, basically, they can mump off AFAIC - but I still feel sorry for Kate (and I';ll call her what I want). Just because I don't like the royals and would vote for a republic tomorrow, doesn't mean I don't think she has probably had a miserable and very worrying week (when I was so sick with DD1 I was convinced I'd lose her. It was awful awful awful).

I don't like the royals, I think that drawing a distinction between what posh person is an aristocrat and what one isn't is ludicrous and I don't like the army either. Or St Andrews. But I still feel sorry for Kate for the week she's had and I hope that she now has a quiet and private and unreported upon pregnancy which doesn't trouble those areas of the media I frequent.

5madthings Thu 06-Dec-12 11:31:08

Why is it intetesting that she is home already? Quite standard that once shevwas re-hydrated via drip and hopefully the sickness is somewhat controlled by meds that she would then go.home.

Some womdn with hg require long stays, some dont and she may well end up being re-admitted if it worsens, again common for hg sufferers.

nannyl Thu 06-Dec-12 11:34:59

not surprised she is home

most HG sufferers are home with 24 - 48 hours..... and very many are readmitted days / weeks later.

Many HG sufferers get admitted numerous times, but once rehydrated and vomiting controlled (which is easier by IV as you dont vom the tablets) you go home..... then when it all starts up again you go back

Its called life with HG

Alibabaandthe40nappies Thu 06-Dec-12 11:36:15

I don't think it is interesting she is home. What this demonstrates is that if this condition was taken seriously and women were given proper treatment before they are at the point of collapse, then many people would spend less time feeling like they wanted to die or terminate their pregnancy.

People are being so bloody vile on this thread, it is disgusting.

FanjoTimeMammariesAndWine Thu 06-Dec-12 11:38:08

Hear hear

Yellowtip Thu 06-Dec-12 11:39:16

Oh I don't know about the distinctions being different posh persons being ludicrous Mordion. Princesses Anne, Beatrice and Eugenie got in a right royal stew about having to curtsey to Kate. The fact that we're all supposed to scrape to someone who hasn't magically morphed into a different person on engagement and marriage is ludicrous though. As is scraping to aristos in the first place of course. And as is the fact that one can't say anything slightly cynical about the likely reality behind a palace news story without causing serious offence, shock and outrage. I've never said I don't have sympathy for her with morning sickness. In fact I've said I do. But I have also said I hope it's not bigged up, for the reasons given. Two days in hospital given the extra precaution does strongly suggest Kate isn't as ill as was generally thought.

squoosh Thu 06-Dec-12 11:44:09

I've heard him refer to her as Kate in interviews, so clarly she is known as Kate by people close to her.


Have actually lost the will to live.

Yellowtip Thu 06-Dec-12 11:46:25

Well I have to say I think if that's the case (about going to hospital every so often to be rehydrated, but not being totally floored) then the distiction between ordinary morning sickness as I understand it and hg does seem to be blurred. So my premise is flawed. I'd understood them to be totally and utterly different, with no overlap in the middle.

FanjoTimeMammariesAndWine Thu 06-Dec-12 11:47:29

Squoosh. .yes, who cares, lets just get pissed on festive bubbly instead


MordionAgenos Thu 06-Dec-12 11:49:53

I don't see why Princess Anne, Beatrice and Eugenie getting in a stew about something renders it not ludicrous. Quite the reverse I'd have said. I don't mind Princess Anne (In fact, I'd go so far as to say I like her. I might even vote for her as a figurehead president) but as for the other two - a fairly reasonable rule of thumb for this sort of thing might be see what they think then think the opposite, I reckon.

It really is the biggest load of baloney. So what if Kate has no 'aristocratic blood' in her. What is aristocratic blood anyway? The windsor claim to the throne derives from its connection with the House of Hannover. Who were basically usurpers. So what. Many other aristos can trace their time back to William the conq. The clue is of course in the name. Which wasn't 'William the born here and definitely the rightful heir to the throne'. But it's all just a load of mumps completely irrelevant to the c21.

I completely agree with you that we should be able to call the whole load of them wasters without the ridiculous overreactions we have seen on this thread. grin But I don't agree with you that two days in hospital indicates that whatever was wrong with her wasn't a Thing. I was only in for 3 days when I was sick and I had additional medical complications.

I don't think we are actually supposed to scrape and I certainly have never scraped in my life (although I probably would do to the Pope. But I'm unlikely to ever meet the Pope, so, you know....). MN is just rather fuller of royalists than real life I'd say. Although, the existence of Hello does seem to indicate that these people do exist in meatspace too.

squoosh Thu 06-Dec-12 11:58:10

FanjoTimeMammariesAndWine indeed! wine

Imagine Christmas Day with all the Royals and not being able to drink. That poor girl!

FanjoTimeMammariesAndWine Thu 06-Dec-12 12:00:32

sheer torture!

A bit like it is for my DH when we have to drive to my parents for Christmas dinner and he can't drink! grin

Yellowtip Thu 06-Dec-12 12:03:20

Mordion I was taking the mickey out of LtEve when I did the shock thing, as opposed to being serious (military types do tend to be achingly obsequious when it comes to the royals). I don't find any of them particularly royal, for exactly the reasons you give. Usurpers. Mary and Anne were cows. But then the previous lot were usupers too, in a sense.

Princess Anne gets my vote. She hates fawners. When she came to see our lot once she told a fawning officer's wife that no thanks, she would not like to hear the children sing but she would like to do was to spend the day with the soldiers.

LtXmasEve Thu 06-Dec-12 13:31:05

military types do tend to be achingly obsequious when it comes to the royals

Us 'Military Types' (oh goody, I'm a type now, still better than the other bollocks I've heard) swear an Oath of Allegience to the Queen, her Heirs and her Successors when we first enlist, and we have Colonels of the Regiment and Colonels in Chief that are often members of the Royal Family. That doesn't make us obsequious, it makes us loyal to the oath we took and the contract we signed when we chose to join the military. I am loyal, steadfast and resolute grin

I look down on those in the military that state they do not support those in the Royal Family as, to me, it means they lied at their attestation. No-one in the UK is forced to join the military, and they do so knowing that the Royal Family should be supported.

fedupofnamechanging Thu 06-Dec-12 13:44:29

Her heirs are Prince Charles and William. I can see the point in swearing allegiance to them, but cannot see that joining the military should have to entail swearing allegiance, in addition, to the waste of space Andrew, Edward, or their offspring. Perhaps it's time that oath was changed. People should have the right to serve their country without having to promise allegiance to people who are not serving their country, but are in fact, living a very nice lifestyle at our expense. I cannot see that the likes of Sophie Wessex/Edward or Andrew/Beatrice/Eugenie.

LtXmasEve Thu 06-Dec-12 13:54:31

I hear what you are saying Karma, but then, if there was some kind of terrorist bollocks al la that terrible King Ralph film then Edward / Andrew / some minor Royal would be expected to 'step up' and the military would be expected to support them...we cannot pick and choose.

If a person is in the Royal Line of Succession - no matter how far down, then they would get the support of the military if the time ever came - no questions asked.

fedupofnamechanging Thu 06-Dec-12 13:59:52

Maybe the oath could be worded that the military swear allegiance to the monarch and immediate heir. If the worst happened, then whoever took over would become the monarch/heir and so allegiance would automatically apply.

Alternatively, perhaps some members of our royal family could behave better and therefore become more worthy of the allegiance of our military.

seeker Thu 06-Dec-12 14:01:07

"If a person is in the Royal Line of Succession - no matter how far down, then they would get the support of the military if the time ever came - no questions asked."

Now that's scary!

LtXmasEve Thu 06-Dec-12 14:11:22

Yes, that would make sense Karma - like the "The King is Dead, Long Live the King" idea.

Yes Seeker, must admit, cannot quite imagine supporting a "King Edward" - would require a very 'stiff upper lip' I think.

"Princess Anne gets my vote. She hates fawners. When she came to see our lot once she told a fawning officer's wife that no thanks, she would not like to hear the children sing but she would like to do was to spend the day with the soldiers."

How does that get your vote? That's just bloody rude. The poor woman.

seeker Thu 06-Dec-12 14:29:06

Don't forget, the upper classes are never rude. They might be forthright, or outspoken, or direct - but never rude. Even when they behave in ways that would have the average 7 year old grounded for a month.

squoosh Thu 06-Dec-12 15:04:37


They never bark orders, they delegate with confidence!

sue52 Thu 06-Dec-12 15:07:52

Prince Andrew is known for his rudenss and self importance.

sue52 Thu 06-Dec-12 15:08:21

eek, rudeness

squoosh Thu 06-Dec-12 15:30:33

Prince Andrew is the pits, I get the feeling even the Royals think so too.

Yellowtip Thu 06-Dec-12 19:49:50

Longtalljosie well you got the jist, despite my bad typing.

But it wasn't rude of Anne in the context particularly, I guess you had to be there. The officer's wife in question was the female version of Mr Collins, only worse (quite markedly worse). Anne sensibly wanted to spend time with the soldiers far more than she did with the officers. Let alone creepy crawly officers wives.

Hence my vote. The kids didn't mind, they just wanted to play, not wave silly flags.

Yellowtip Thu 06-Dec-12 20:02:11

LtEve I swore a similar oath when I joined the Brownies as a Twyleth Teg, way back. I haven't officially renounced that oath. I had to swear it whilst putting my hand on a papier mache mushroom so I guess it was intended to mean something too? But it didn't affect my behaviour or mould my views. it was just what you had to do to be eligible for the job. A tick list thing.

But as an army wife, I swore no oath. Overwhelmingly though, when it came to a visit, the officers wives were as eye wateringly obsequious as their DHs. Unreal.

I think Anne just prefers the tell it how it is approach of the soldiers (and I guess perhaps their wives?). Good on her.

soverylucky Thu 06-Dec-12 20:28:41

One of the things that was really tough with HG was people's attitudes. The comments like " oh I had morning sickness I know how you feel" or "you are over reacting". When I had HG and was pg with my first I had people tell me that being sick was normal so what was I complaining about.

To see the comments questioning the length of time that Kate was in hospital shows yet again the insinuation that HG is not to be taken seriously. If her doctors have said she has HG then she has HG. If she is well enough to go home - a home where her doctors know she can potentially be waited on and have the use of a private nurse and doctor, then she is well enough to go home.

amillionyears Thu 06-Dec-12 20:49:13

The thing is, soverylucky, that Yellowtip and maybe some others on here have lost trust in some of the royals because of the royal pr machine. If you dont believe everything the royal pr machine has said in the past, then it is difficult to get the trust back again.
I suppose what I am thinking, is that wouldnt all the royals then have to collude together in it all? And I cant quite see that.

LtXmasEve Thu 06-Dec-12 20:49:50

LtEve I swore a similar oath when I joined the Brownies as a Twyleth Teg, way back. I haven't officially renounced that oath. I had to swear it whilst putting my hand on a papier mache mushroom so I guess it was intended to mean something too? But it didn't affect my behaviour or mould my views. it was just what you had to do to be eligible for the job. A tick list thing.

Yes well, it was more than a tick list for me. Just as joining the Army was more than just a job. I am very happy with my choices, behaviour, views and actions. It has made me the person I am - and I like the person I am.

Hmm... I'm from a forces family you see. Not anywhere near elevated enough for my mother to have been greeting royalty in years gone by - but anyone who was a forces brat knows services life is about the whole family. Princess Anne should have known that too...

fedupofnamechanging Fri 07-Dec-12 09:43:26

Those kids probably spent ages practising that song - I agree that it was very rude of Anne to decline listening to it. Just another example of how certain members of the royal family feel entitled to do as they please, irrespective of anyone else.

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 10:09:08

I'm not going to defend Anne to a great extent Longtalljosie and karma and I get the point about the kids at school practising (which they did a bit) but unfortunately this wife (my neighbour) was so appallingly creepy that I assume Anne wanted to make the point that the soldiers were her main concern, not hand wringers such as this wife. There's no doubt Anne's brusque. I'm still a bit cross with myself for conceding, under huge pressure, to go to the tedious dinner a few days after giving birth, but being told in absolute terms that I couldn't bring the baby to feed (no hope of expressing in my case) because Anne wouldn't want that at all. I'd tell them to stick it now, but I didn't then. Myriad similar instances of having to toe the line or else.

I agree that services life should be about the whole family but far too often around the time I was 'in', the ancillary conditions in some places were truly appalling - housing, maternity care, schools etc. And worse for those who didn't dare speak up for themselves or who lacked the purchasing power to
ameliorate their lot. Unfortunately, frequently, husbands were reluctant to speak up and dissuades wives from speaking up because of the culture of rank, and fear for the impact on their promotion and jobs.

LtEve's roseate view of conditions certainly doesn't square with mine and I'm not clear what seismic change has occurred in society in the past 20yrs to warrant such a huge transformation. I wonder if it really is so different. Of course there was also plenty about the life which was good, but too much which was unneccessarily bad.

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 10:11:54

dissuaded. More rubbishy typing.

LtXmasEve Fri 07-Dec-12 10:28:18

LtEve's roseate view of conditions certainly doesn't square with mine Because your views are 20 years old.

I'm not clear what seismic change has occurred in society in the past 20yrs to warrant such a huge transformation Really? You cannot see the huge changes in all aspects of society in the last 20 years? In the Army alone, without taking a breath I can think of at least 8 major changes off the top of my head that had far reaching implications for soldiers and their families.

I wonder if it really is so different Yes it is, no need to wonder.

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 10:55:23

Obviously you're a little younger than me LtEve so I guess you can't properly compare, unless you've been part of the policy making machine working through these major changes in the MoD, which of you might well be: someone has to drive and see through policy changes, no reason why it shouldn't be you.

I'm interested though: what are these eight major changes? If you tell me how the army has attempted to put right the deficiencies then I can more easily judge, rather than simply being told. I'm probably up to the task. You said you could name at least eight, which were major.

I myself thought things were pretty equal and unchauvinist in the mid-late eighties and early nineties tbh. Then I discovered the army. But in my other world things had seemed to be pretty equal. So I suppose I wonder why the army was so out of touch then and so in touch now. The army must have had to change far, far, far more than society has done in the past twenty years if it's really caught up.

So, hit me, please! smile

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 10:56:44

which of course you might well be.

LtXmasEve Fri 07-Dec-12 11:18:22

I'm 40 years old, and have been in the Army for 22 years.

I enlisted in 1989, joining my first unit in 1990. Off the top of my head, since I joined, some major changes are:

1. The disbandment of the WRAC and the removal of the "non-combatent" status for females.
2. Removal of automatic discharge for pregnant females.
3. Allowing single parents (of either sex) to remain in service.
4. Allowing openly gay males and females to remain in service.
5. Introduction of Compulsory Drugs Testing.
6. Recognition of Civil Partnerships.
7. Introduction of JPA.
8. Introduction of receipt based expense allowances.
9. Introduction of MHS (bad decision) and handing over of SFA control to a civilian contractor.
10. Closure of (almost all) Military hospitals and the introduction of Military Wings to NHS hospitals

Thats just a start.

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 12:06:28

Well you're certainly well and truly into acronymns, as one might expect!

At first glance, and without being able to decipher all of the acronyms, this list looks as though it does bugger all to address families issues and the pervasive chauvinism meted out to wives. But what is JPA, MHS and SFA? Why was the introuction of MHS a bad decision? (I'm guessing this is housing).

Hobbitation Fri 07-Dec-12 12:23:59

Someone I was following on Twitter thinks she should "get on with it, as other pregnant women do". I pointed out they werebeing ignorant, as hyperemesis gravidarum is NOTHING LIKE normal pregnancy nausea. He replied that he doesn't believe she has that and the royal family are just making it up for the publicity...

You can't win with some people. They are never going to get it.

LtXmasEve Fri 07-Dec-12 12:24:34

Joint Personnel Administration - which means (very basically) that everyone, male and female, all 3 services, are treated the same. Same allowances, same 'perks', same administration.

Modern Housing Solutions. A civilian company charged with the care and repair of military accommodation allowing services spouses to be 'in charge' of their own homes rather than relying on the service person. A bad idea solely because the contract was given to the cheapest bidder (as ever) and they did not realise (or care maybe) what a huge task it was. The jobs are done, but not as speedily as they should be.

Service Families Accommodation. No longer controlled by the MOD and again allows the service spouse to contact them direct. All SFA has been or is currently being improved and updated - something that is long overdue.

You didn't ask for changes directly related to service spouses (not 'wives' - falling into your own trap there). But of the list above, numbers 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 all directly or indirectly relate to families and have improved service family life.

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 12:35:09

LtEve I tend not to fall into traps. Wives is a perfectly good shorthand.

Nope, none of those things are really going to have a huge impact on wives and children. Indeed you make it sound as if the housing repair situation has got worse, not better. And houses still haven't been updated? Wow. How about easing life for school tranfer? Anything sensible done there?

It's the chauvinistic culture really that I'm interested in, of which these practical aspects are only a part.

LtXmasEve Fri 07-Dec-12 12:49:24

Nope, my Service Spouse - MALE, would be seriously unimpressed to be called a Wife.

You are not, nor have you ever been a serving soldier. You were an Army Spouse 20 years ago. You cannot say that none of those changes had an impact on wives spouses and children - because they did. For example, back in the 90s there was no such thing as a Civil Partner. A same sex partner had no standing with regards to pay, pension, death in service, service accn and so on. They did not exist, therefore no allowance had to be made for them. They could not be employed, could not live within the community, so could not live overseas in most cases, could not be treated medically, could not be included as Next of Kin or Emergency Contact - They wouldn't even be told if their partner had died. Now they can - it's a huge and great change.

As for chauvinistic culture - well when I first joined women were treated differently and pretty badly. Once we received equal status and equal opportunities things improved, and an still improving daily. At my last post I was one of only 3 female soldiers in a Regiment of 420. I was never treated as anything other than a soldier, a friend and a comrade (well until I puked on the Regimental Carpet - which was a black, black day in Germany grin)

hf128219 Fri 07-Dec-12 12:51:54

Yellowtip. Your comments!

"Overwhelmingly though, when it came to a visit, the officers wives were as eye wateringly obsequious as their DHs. Unreal."

I am a serving Officer's wife, including a stint as the CO's wife. I have a career, live in our own home and have a life!

LtXmasEve Fri 07-Dec-12 12:52:49

Wow. How about easing life for school tranfer?

Arms Plot Moves now take place in August and Regiments are given up to a years notice of them.

Soldier moves take place in August wherever possible, but if not possible Early Mover Status is given to families to allow them to move before or after their soldier to assist with school applications.

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 13:05:34

LtEve as a serving soldier yourself you're looking at life from a different perspective. You do give the impression that you perceive yourself to be somehow superior to 'mere' wives. The chances are you probably aren't - just different.

hf that's good to hear. Hopefully that's much more common these days. A huge amount still must depend on a spouse's type of career and whether one can buy one's own home and is prepared to live apart. I'm aware of a few wives who were doctors, nurses and teachers but the range of options wasn't huge. Germany going makes a difference too of course. I'm afraid in my then cloistered world the set of wives I was with were eye wateringly obsequious, along with the DHs. Sorry, sad but true. Perhaps they were atypical: the particular branch and regiment might well have lent itself to that smile Apologies if your lot are all rather more cool.

LtXmasEve Fri 07-Dec-12 13:13:06

As I said before Yellowtip, I have also been a soldier's wife - my husband was serving when we met and married. So no, I certainly don't see myself as superior, in fact I see myself as someone in the best position to see both sides. Whilst on Maternity Leave I was a 'mere' wife as you put it, and was able to see the difficulties that they have to overcome. I am glad to report that improvements have been made that benefit everyone. My husband is currently a SAHD (by choice), so a Service Spouse and can see quite clearly how much better things are than when he was married to his first wife (20 years ago).

BartletForTeamGB Fri 07-Dec-12 13:40:48

"Quite interesting that the fact that she's already at home after only a couple of days is being ignored. The obgyns won't be taking any chances either. What a joke. Lets hope this doesn't diminish the difficulties faced by those with serious hg."

Don't think it is strange at all that she has been discharged after a few days. I have had HG in two of my three pregnancies and the thinking now is generally to come in as a day case for fluids and to do that repeatedly if needed. I felt so, so, so much better within a few hours of IV fluids that I would have been happy to go home.

hf128219 Fri 07-Dec-12 14:03:39

Yellow DH is in what you would consider a 'posh regiment'

Heavywheezing Fri 07-Dec-12 14:09:46

I think that you are right.

Does it say that she has HG? Acute morning sickness could man anything

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 14:22:54

hf then your lot are clearly more cool. Do most of the wives have careers in that regiment these days or are you the exception to the rule? And of those who do have a career, do most own their own homes and stay put? I suppose being in one of the posh regiments which are in or near London facilitates a continuing career too. So many variables. I think life these days is anyway far more fixed, with less moves, or is that wrong? And haven't overseas postings been slashed ? (not just Germany but other more exotic postings too - though that was the fun bit).

LtEve did the first wife leave your DH because she disliked being an army wife? Maternity leave wouldn't give any real insight, no.

LtXmasEve Fri 07-Dec-12 14:27:23

No, because she got back in contact with her childhood sweetheart.

A year as a dependant, with a brand new family and a deployed husband, rather than a soldier gave me great insight actually.

What do you call 'posh' regiments. I think Cavalry when I hear that, and only One of the cavalry regiments is in or near London. One is in North Germany.

BartletForTeamGB Fri 07-Dec-12 14:27:53

heavy, "Does it say that she has HG? Acute morning sickness could man anything"

From the first statement announcing the DoC's pregnancy:

The Duchess was admitted this afternoon to King Edward VII Hospital in Central London with Hyperemesis Gravidarum. As the pregnancy is in its very early stages, Her Royal Highness is expected to stay in hospital for several days and will require a period of rest thereafter.

Further information:

Hyperemesis Gravidarum is very acute morning sickness, which requires supplementary hydration and nutrients.

hf128219 Fri 07-Dec-12 14:33:09

Cavalry, Guards, some Infantry, bla bla bla.

LtXmasEve Fri 07-Dec-12 14:47:40

Oh yes, how could I forget the Guards? shock grin

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 14:48:01

Everyone thinks 'posh'= cavalry. But some of the non cavalry guards regiments might quarrel with that, if for some reason they were put out by not being regarded as posh.

Clearly commuting to Bishopsgate etc. is trickier from Germany than it is from Windsor or London. As I said, even now there are variables.

Yes a year as a new mother with a husband away is different from a short interruption to your career with the husband home most nights. Still not quite in the same boat as the wives I'm thinking of though.

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 14:55:07

Cross posted with both. So the distinctions about who's posh and who isn't still exist smile Good old enlightened modern day army.

LtXmasEve Fri 07-Dec-12 15:28:30

Did you miss 'deployed husband' part of my post? Actually I was preganant and working (without DH) then admitted to hospital for 3 months (without DH - and with only the families Officer and his wife as visitors) then had my DD (early, and thankfully with DH), then had a DD in Kindertensive (with DH), then bought her home, then moved house and country (without DH), employed a Nanny (without DH), went back to work (without DH), before finally getting DH home and having him become the SAHD and a dependant of mine! <<and breathe>>

Like I said, a great insight.

There are Guards and Cavalry Regiments that don't consider themselves 'posh' and there are those that do. The distinction comes from the traditional, historic stories of Cavalry Officers having to have a second personal income if they wished to join up (and their own horse!). That hasn't been a concern for years, but that history remains. I know seriously loaded Cavalry Officers, and those without a bean to their name.

My only contact with the Guards was a previous RSM from a poverty stricken area of Scotland who was a fabulous bloke and someone I looked up to. But I'm still aware that they are considered 'posh'. It's all to do with the Order of Precedence of the Regiments and Corps of the British Army. My own Corps is that far down the list it falls off the bottom of the page!

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 17:16:29

LtEve re-read my post. It read Yes a year as a new mother with a husband away is different ..... Which clearly means I read what you wrote, and correctly.

It's not especially important and I'm not going to argue with your 'insight' (which clearly did give you insight into coping on your own with a child for a while and all the moving-abroad-on-your-own-fandango). But the aspect of the army which I found enormously oppressive and deeply anachronistic was its treatment of dependant wives. Which you are not. Perhaps it was worse in our regiment, since on paper it's right up at the top end of 'posh'. And I can quite see how it may well be the worse for that.

havingastress Fri 07-Dec-12 17:22:32

I do feel sorry for her - having suffered for 14 horrific weeks, I know how debilitating it can be. However, I also got told to man it up, and had to go to work the whole time.

I'm moreover surprised though that news of her pregnancy has even been announced to the world - she's only 7 weeks..god forbid, I hope she has a successful pregnancy. Very very early to be announcing imo.

However, not her fault, and also not her fault that the papers are dedicating 14+ pages to her pregnancy as though she's the only woman in the world to ever have a baby. I'm SO bored of her pregnancy already!

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