to tell parents to reimburse me

(268 Posts)
Netmumsrule Sun 02-Dec-12 22:56:08

My dd, 7, had a dance show yesterday and forgot her costume (dress). I was annoyed but as time was tight I paid £20 for a return cab to go home and get it as I did not want to let her and her dance team down.
She was wearing another costume for a dance she was doing before and when she went to change into her dress is was missing. Everyone in her class, apart from one who they thought was nervous before the dance,searched and she ended up going on stage being the only one without her costume. She cried throughout the performance but held it together as she did not want to let the others down.
When I saw her dress wasn;t on and she was crying I went to the side of the stage, asked the teacher why she wasn'r wearing it and got a reply' she lost it'.
I knew this could not have been the case and as soon as the dance ended my dd came to me-(she was also upset as she knew I made an effort to get a cab there and back when I had been ill).
I told her it wasn't her fault and then searched for it and then asked some of her classmates to check the labels. Well, the girl who did not help to find it had it on and when I asked her why she said she forgot hers and it was in her dads car boot. Her dad was watching the show so could have been found. I asked her why she took it and she didn't care and said 'it was there and I took it as mine is in the carboot.'
I told her it was a horrible thing and to return it and she took it off and didn't even apologise.
The dance teacher knows.
One parent told me, 'they are only children and I shouldn't make a big deal' but I think her behaviour is wrong.
A few other parents who heard were disgusted.
Should I tell the teacher to get the girls parents to give me my cab fare and should I ask the video of that dance is deleted as dd feels humiliated as is was crying throughout it and the only one in the whole show who was not in the correct costume? It is supposed to be going to 120 people approx.
As the dress was being looked for and dd was in tears I think it is a horrid experience for any child to have happen.
Am I over-protective?

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sun 02-Dec-12 22:57:44

is this a joke ?

OpheliaPayneAgain Sun 02-Dec-12 23:00:14

I cdant even follow the she-did, they-did, I-did stuff

Euphemia Sun 02-Dec-12 23:01:18

Your 7 year-old did not forget her dress, you forgot it.

Another child did a daft, but understandable, thing and you want her parents to pay for your mistake? What kind of crazy logic is that?!

YABU

mamamibbo Sun 02-Dec-12 23:02:48

awww, your poor dd sad the child should be told that they cant just take someone elses things but not sure about getting your money back

Feckbox Sun 02-Dec-12 23:03:39

No. You are not overprotective.
What a horrid experience for your little girl.

The taxi fare, though is a red herring. The girl who pinched your daughter's dress would presumably have done so whether or not a taxi fare was incurred.
That sounds a pretty mean thing to do - surely by age seven most kids know that's not on?

Do you think the teacher will have a quiet word with the girl's parent about her unacceptable behaviour?

Your daughter has had a harsh lesson early on in life that some people are very mean. sad

FeckOffCup Sun 02-Dec-12 23:03:43

Yes it would be unreasonable to demand the cab fare back from the parents, if they were in the audience watching the show then how were they to know their DD had taken your DD's dress? Not ideal behaviour from the other girl but I would ask the dance teacher to have a word with her about taking someone else's costume and leave it at that.

MissCellania Sun 02-Dec-12 23:04:46

I'm not sure the above repliers are following. OP spent money to retrieve forgotten dress, and then another child took it because she didn't have her own.
OP's child had to go on with no dress andcried and OP wasted the taxi fare.

Parents of dress stealing child should repay the cash. And apologise.

ohfunnyface Sun 02-Dec-12 23:05:01

Forget the money- ask for an apology.

reddaisy Sun 02-Dec-12 23:07:32

OP, you have an interesting name. Is this a serious post?

Netmumsrule Sun 02-Dec-12 23:08:44

thanks mama.
I had asked dd to leave her costumes the day before with the teacher and believed she did- unfortunaately she left one and not both.
I guess, I'm annoyed that I went back and the other girl didn't care about what she had done. dd was still upset today as it was recorded and also because she cannot understand why someone would let her cry and sit there wearing her dress!
It just got to me that the other girls parents never emailed to apologise either.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sun 02-Dec-12 23:08:49

I followed.

OP will look like a loon if she demands reimbursement for forgetting her daughter's outfit. As for deleting the DVD of the performance ??

There was a mean child. Parents of mean child presumably knew nothing about it, should be informed of what happened and left to deal with it in their own way.

Anything else is OTT

A public flogging, perhaps ?

Netmumsrule Sun 02-Dec-12 23:09:05

yes daisy... x

MrsMushroom Sun 02-Dec-12 23:09:11

Heartbreaking but you should tell DD that she was the hero of the day as she did nothing wrong. Then take her to a photographer to be photographed in her costume.

<<sits on bench with reddaisy>>

Euphemia Sun 02-Dec-12 23:11:29

A child made a silly mistake! I don't see why that should cost them money the OP would have spent anyway because she was disorganised enough to forget the dress!

I think the OP is angry at herself and pissed off at wasting £20 and is looking for a way to get the money back and regain the moral high ground.

Ain't gonna happen, doll.

YABU. Shit happens, the girl's parents and the girl should give you and your daughter an apology, but you/your daughter forgot the dress in the first place and wouldn't have had to have made that extra trip if you hadn't forgotten it, which has nothing to do with the girl 'borrowing' your daughter's dress.

If anything, the teacher should have checked that they were all wearing their own dresses but time constraints probably meant that would have been impossible!

OldLadyKnowsNothing Sun 02-Dec-12 23:14:45

I am actually concerned that a child described as "nervous" didn't feel able to say to her dad that her dress was still in the car boot.

MrsMushroom Sun 02-Dec-12 23:15:05

Doesn't sound like a silly mistake to me. Sounds like a little horror who decided that SHE was more important and wanted the dress.

Id make sure your daughter knows what her dresses looked like. If another child was wearing it surely she would have seen it if she cared that much?

I would be happy with an apology from the girl and her parents. If one wasn't forthcoming I would approach the parent/s when I saw them dropping off / picking up at the next dance class, and check that they knew what had happened, etc.

TwitchyTail Sun 02-Dec-12 23:16:01

Inform the parents of the other child (without asking for money) of the facts, praise your daughter for being brave and soldiering on without her costume, and let it go.

I'd be thoroughly ashamed if my child acted the way the other girl did, and would certainly be having words with her about right and wrong, but I don't think taxi fares are reasonably payable here.

Netmumsrule Sun 02-Dec-12 23:16:30

Feckbox, cabfare was my own doing. I am just so annoyed.

The parents know but I have had no apology...

(daisy and chaos I wasn't allowed mumsnetrule so was cheeky)

The child did not make a silly mistake. She took something that was not hers without asking. That is stealing. The taxi fare is neither here nor there. The parents will get theirs eventually because they are not teaching their DD right from wrong.

Netmumsrule Sun 02-Dec-12 23:18:29

wewereherefirst- all dresses looked exactly the same.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Sun 02-Dec-12 23:18:35

YANBU to be extremely pissed off that a child stole your dds dress, but the taxi fare is irrelevant, and you can't expect to be reimbursed for it. You can expect that the child apologises for what she did and is punished by the dance school though.

splintersinmebum Sun 02-Dec-12 23:20:19

the parents of the mean girl are probably pretty mean themselves (tis usually the way). I'd let it go but yanbu to be pissed off.

RyleDup Sun 02-Dec-12 23:21:56

Your poor dd op. that would piss me off if I had had to pay that money out too. I would ask the teacher to mention it to the parent. I wonder why that girl didn't ask her dad to fetch it from the car though? That sounds a little concerning too. Give your dd a big hug.

HildaOgden Sun 02-Dec-12 23:22:08

I'd be more interested in asking the dance teacher why she let your crying daughter on stage in front of a large audience,being the only one without a costume.

This wasn't the responsibility of either 7 year old little girl,the teacher should have sorted this out before they got to the stage.

WinterWinds Sun 02-Dec-12 23:22:15

I can see why you would be annoyed after going to the effort to get dd's dress in time for the show, only for her to not have it anyway.
The parents would be not be responsible for your costs. That bit is nothing to do with them

They can only deal with the issue of thier child helping herself to your DD's dress, which should be dealt with.
The child needs to learn that she cant just take what doesnt belong to her. and should at least apologise.

Goldmandra Sun 02-Dec-12 23:23:52

Id make sure your daughter knows what her dresses looked like. If another child was wearing it surely she would have seen it if she cared that much?

When children do dance shows they usually wear identical costumes all sourced from the same place. Presumably the girls were of a similar size so nobody would be able to tell by looking.

HildaOgden Sun 02-Dec-12 23:24:27

...and to be honest,I think you were out of line to tell the other girl 'it was a horrible thing' and make her strip off....that had to be very intimidating to her.

peeriebear Sun 02-Dec-12 23:26:00

I'd be bloody annoyed... The taxi money is separate however. The fact that the other girl knowingly took the dress, watched everyone search for it, and watched OP's DD crying without her outfit while she stood there wearing it... I'd be ashamed if my child had done that!

Netmumsrule Sun 02-Dec-12 23:26:58

Thank you MrsPratchett and Mrs Mushroom. I know it was not a silly mistake. She did not even apologise and was not sacred in the least.

Oldladyknowsnothing- everyone thought she was nervous with stagefright as she wasn't helping to look for it, (while wearing it)

I AM letting the taxi fare go- that was something I should not have written.

As the rest of the class and their parents now know how sneaky the other girl (og) is they will not trust her so og will have that to live with.

RyleDup Sun 02-Dec-12 23:28:53

She didn't ask her to strip off hilda. She asked her to check the label and then the girl took it off. Slightly different scenario there I think.

NatashaBee Sun 02-Dec-12 23:29:49

I would want to hear that the dress thieving child had been punished in some way - she needs to learn that she can't just help herself to things. The dance teacher should have stepped in too when she saw your daughter upset. I wouldn't be demanding the cab fare back, but YANBU to think that the parents and dance teacher should have done something.

Netmumsrule Sun 02-Dec-12 23:30:33

HildaOgden- I asked her to please give it back. That is NBU

I'd be bloody annoyed and would say something to the og parents.
If my DD had done something like that I would want to know about it.

Fifis25StottieCakes Sun 02-Dec-12 23:33:53

Op's DD is only 7, what a shame for her. No wonder she was upset. When said girl was putting your daughters dress on in the changing room surely the other girl knew she had taken her dress and had it on whilst your daughter was upset. If the dance teacher knew you had forgotten the dress and went home in a cab to get it she should have sorted it out before they went on. Yes i would be tempted to ask for the cab fair so YANBU but YABU to ask them to delete the DVD as the other kids who had done no wrong are in it

RyleDup Sun 02-Dec-12 23:34:00

Even though its shite op, try not to demonise the girl. At 7, that behaviour is brought on from somewhere else. I would have a little sympathy for her to feel the need to do something like this. (I still have lots of sympathy for your dd too though, its a horrible harsh lesson of what people can be like)

HildaOgden Sun 02-Dec-12 23:36:10

I still think you should have got the dance teacher to sort it out,and I'd be quite annoyed that she wasn't more on top of things....no matter which child I was the parent of.I'd also be extremely annoyed at that dance teacher not asking your daughter why she was both in tears and out of costume before putting her on stage (and sorting it out,even if it meant causing a delay in the performance)

I just don't think it's appropriate for the (understandably) angry parent of a child to deal with the other child.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Sun 02-Dec-12 23:37:05

There is noting wrong with an adult telling a child they did a horrible thing if they did a horrible thing! What this child did was way beyond horrible, it was nasty and selfish and she needed to be told!

HildaOgden Sun 02-Dec-12 23:41:01

Of course I believe the child should be told....just not by the parent of the other child in a heated situation.

We may just have to agree to disagree on this one.

MissCellania Sun 02-Dec-12 23:41:12

The cab fare isnt a separate issue at all. OP spent 20 quid so her kid wouldn't be upset at being without a costume. Then she was without a costume! She was worse off than if OP hadn't bothered, because if she hadn't, the other girl couldn't have taken it and there would have been two of them without costumes.
OP's child was worse off and OP was out of pocket too. Essentially she spent 20 quid for the other child to have a dress, which is why the other parents should pay up. I would if it was my child.

Netmumsrule Sun 02-Dec-12 23:41:31

Hilda, I agree. When the dance started and I saw dd was crying, trying to hold it together and NOT in costume I went straight over to dance teacher and asked 'where is dd's dress'. She looked peed off with me and said 'she lost it' so I went looking in the loos, changing room etc.
Dance teacher knew I had got a taxi home and back as when they realised it was missing she told me she had no spares and could I get home and back- hence cab.

Goldmandra Sun 02-Dec-12 23:42:15

OP, did you buy this costume specially for this show?

If so YWNBU to ask the parents to reimburse you for the cost of it.

You paid for it. Their child stole it an wore it therefore they should pay for it unless youd DD has also worn it on other nights or for other shows.

That or tell them to be on the lookout for scabies and watch for the look on their faces grin

Netmumsrule Sun 02-Dec-12 23:42:43

MissCellania, good point x

MollyMurphy Sun 02-Dec-12 23:43:05

It doesn't sound like the child "made a mistake" - she identified that she took the costume even though she knew it wasn't hers , which is wrong. I would speak to her parent and inform of this behaviour but otherwise would drop it. Crap happens. not a great day for your kiddo but I'd focus on helping her move on not make it an even bigger deal.

GoodKingWenSOLOslas Sun 02-Dec-12 23:44:29

Oh, come on!!! some kids are just plain selfish and spiteful! (as are some adults, but not necessarily linked to one another!).

The fact that the OP had spent that money on cab fares to ensure her Dd would be in costume and then she couldn't wear it anyway because some other little princess had decided she was going to wear it instead...I'd be livid! and whilst I may not be demanding the cab fare back as tempting as it would be to do so, an apology is the very least that I'd be asking for!

Netmumsrule Sun 02-Dec-12 23:44:36

Goldmandra, it was worn at a previous show.

I would love to mention scabies but wouldn't want anyone avoiding dd!

cumfy Sun 02-Dec-12 23:45:37

Not following the chronology of this.

A. Did this other little girl have the dress all along, while you were rushing around in a cab trying to find it ?

Or

B. had you forgotten it ?

C. Something else ?

OldLadyKnowsNothing Sun 02-Dec-12 23:46:25

OP, I understand that she was "nervous" because she was wearing your dd's dress. I'm still concerned that this little girl didn't feel able to say to her daddy that hers was still in the car.

But I am also aware that right at the moment I'm a bit sensitive about little girls being scared of their daddy if they're (girls) not perfectly well-behaved, so I may be making too much of this.

RyleDup Sun 02-Dec-12 23:49:04

Actually I agree with misscellainia. Its not a separate issue and the parents should pay for the cab. The only thing that would stop me asking, is the reason she did it in the first place. Its unusual behaviour and not something that I would expect my dd to do. Which makes me wonder if its a behaviour thats learnt from her parents. Even though it was a shitty thing to do, something in the back of my mind would worry that the girl would get a very hard time from her parents for costing them £20 in a cab fare. Maybe I'm overthinking it, you obviously would know the family a little better?

Netmumsrule Sun 02-Dec-12 23:51:30

cumfy, I got a cab home, brought the dress, and went back.

I gave the dress to dd 5 minutes before the show started.

2 dances, 2 different classes dd attends so dress was needed for 2nd dance. Other girl took it from dd had left it in changing area.

zipzap Sun 02-Dec-12 23:53:15

Whilst I know it would be unreasonable to ask for the cab fare for getting the dress from the other parents, the way they and their dd have behaved in this fiasco - the dd believing she was entitled to the dress that was sitting there even though it wasn't hers when she could have sent a message to her df to get it for her easily enough, or the parents not being bothered to do say anything about it - well, it would make me want to ask for it.

Or maybe that's wrong - I would have told them about the cab fare. And then I would have asked them to pay for the costume that their dd wore as your dd didn't wear it in the show that you had bought it for (I'm assuming that the dress costs more than the cab fare). And hoped they would have the decency to cough up for both of them - as their child has ruined your child's evening. These are the things that get remembered through time, especially if you are the one who had her dress nicked. Point out that if their dd had been normal and not an entitled little madam that stole a dress that didn't belong to her (do you reckon she would have kept it if you hadn't discovered that she was wearing it?) and showed no contrition on getting caught, then they wouldn't be in this position that is embarrassing for everyone.

Then use the money to pay for a nice portrait of dd in one of her other favourite dancing dresses (guessing she isn't going to want a reminder of this one!) or to take her on a nice treat somewhere.

if you don't get the money from them - then you haven't lost anything but you've shown your dd that you tried to do something and you see that it was important to her. Hopefully the dd will have learnt a lesson about not stealing taking stuff that doesn't belong to you and the drama teacher will have some better system in place next time if people forget costumes so that they all get checked in at the start so there is time for dads to run back to the car or mums to jump in taxis or whatever.

And get the ballet teacher to put a note on the video (assuming they have some sort of credits on?) to give your dd the 'show must go on' award for carrying on regardless of her costume being borrowed so she wasn't able to wear it...

piprabbit Sun 02-Dec-12 23:55:05

OP and her DD forgot the dress.
OP dashed around, caught a cab and was able to get the dress to the show in time for the performance. Cue much relief, happy OP and happy DD.

But DD never got a chance to wear the dress, because the other girl then half-hinched it for herself, despite it being labelled with DD's name and quite clearly not the other girl's. The other girl knew she had left her own dress in her dad's car.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Sun 02-Dec-12 23:55:09

The cab fare is a separate issue because it is unrelated to the fact that the girl took the dress. She could have taken the dress if OP had remembered it in the first place, or she could have taken the dress from someone else who's Mum hadn't just had to pay a cab fare.

The child can be blamed for taking the dress, and her parents are responsible for the upset caused, but they aren't responsible for the cab fare because that is unrelated to what their child did.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Sun 02-Dec-12 23:58:35

An award for 'The show must go on' is an excellent idea zipzap!

I think that's definitely worth suggesting to the teacher, especially as it woudo result in your dd getting 'public' praise and the other child having some kind of embarrassment as a consequence for her nasty actions.

HollaAtMeBaby Mon 03-Dec-12 00:02:25

Unbelievable! But as others have said, the thieving little bitch other little girl would have taken the dress whether or not you had gone back in the cab for it. Did you confront her parents? Did they say anything? Their child is clearly a budding sociopath, I would have insisted on an apology on the spot.

Why didn't the teacher check the name tags in the dresses before they all went on stage when it became clear that one dress was missing? I would complain about this.

Otherwise, use the incident to teach your DD that some people are not nice and it's important to look after your things.

CuriousMama Mon 03-Dec-12 00:02:27

That's so sad for you dd.

The parents need telling but I wouldn't hold my breath.

RyleDup Mon 03-Dec-12 00:07:50

I dont agree outraged. Just because the parents arent aware that the op had to go to a lot of effort to fetch the dress, doesn't make them not responsible. Because ultimately the only dress available to the girl should have been her own dress. But she chose to take someone elses. She could have chosen girl A's dress, that had no cost attached to it, or she could have chosen girl B's dress, that had £20 attached to it. As she shouldn't have taken either, then the cost shouldn't come into it. But as she chose to take the one that that did have a cost attached to it, then really, that should be paid for. Because ultimately, she should have just got her dad to go and fetch her own dress. The reason why she didnt is another story no doubt.

Difficult one- maybe lessons to be learnt that all these costumes/kits etc need to be in labelled bags & the children take responsibility for their own kits?

Also that the teacher should be checking well before the performance that everyone has a costume (their own)

If my child was in tears during a performance I'd want her to know she was allowed to come off , the teacher should (IMHO) have let her not perform in distress.

(( Oldlady))

lisad123 Mon 03-Dec-12 00:13:29

Your poor dd sad those dance shows are manic but really it's the dance teachers job and helpers to have found the dress.
The little madam who took your dd dress sounds horrible. I would be having serious words with the parents, it's awful behaviour angry

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Mon 03-Dec-12 00:15:59

The parents are responsible for the fact their their child thinks its ok to take something that isn't hers, and they are responsible for the fact that they didn't ensure their child had her own dress, but they are not responsible for the fact that OP forgot to give her dd her dress, they are not responsible for the fact that OP chose to go back and get it, and they are not responsible for the fact that OP had to use a taxi instead of using her own car or getting a lift.

The horrible child didn't know there was a price attached to one dress and not another, so she didn't choose to take a dress with a price attached at all.

Viviennemary Mon 03-Dec-12 00:18:02

That child stole your child's dress. It was not a mistake. She knew the dress wasn't hers. Don't know about refunding your taxi fare though. Because it was your fault you forgot the dress. I think I'd find a different dance class with nicer people.

WilsonFrickett Mon 03-Dec-12 00:21:29

A 7 year old is both a thieving little bitch and a budding sociopath holla? really?

Or maybe just a little girl who's parents CBA to sort out her costume, who panicked and then got herself into a situation she couldn't get out of?

Op I totally understand your frustrations. But I would save your anger for the lack of support And supervision backstage. I bet you pay enough in fees for the school to expect that someone's in charge backstage.

MyNutcrackerSuiteAudrina Mon 03-Dec-12 00:22:53

Your poor DD! Some people have no conscience so don't waste your time in that respect. Your child didn't steal anyone else's costume. Make that known.

I love the "show must go on" award idea. Really ramp that up if you can. It's an amazing achievement and she should be applauded for it. She is probably too young to know that it's the real spirit of performance so buy / record a few classic musicals on DVD to show her and be proud of her smile

Netmumsrule Mon 03-Dec-12 00:24:58

viviennemary, dd has been there 18 months and has made some good friends. The brat is fairly new.
Although I feel the teacher made a mistake, I cannot fault her teaching.
The dress had her name on the label- the girls were all told to check they were wearing the correct one and the brat lied.

RyleDup Mon 03-Dec-12 00:25:02

No, but thats the point outraged, if she hadn't have taken it there wouldn't have been a problem. You don't need to know that theres a cost involved if you don't take something thats not yours in the first place.
Ok, put it another way, if what if was your dd that had knowingly taken the dress, rather than ask you to fetch hers from the car. And knowing the effort the op went to in order to get her dd's dress for her. Would you offer to pay that cab fare or not?

RyleDup Mon 03-Dec-12 00:27:27

Oh netmum, I know you're feeling crap about it, but please don't call her a brat. That doesn't sit well with me. She's only 7 too.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Mon 03-Dec-12 00:30:55

If my child had done that I'd be offering to pay for more than the cab fare, I cannot even begin to imagine the shame and embarrassment of having my child do something that awful.

But I think I'd pay the cab fare because I was sorry and because I'd be desperate to do anything possible to try to make up for it, not because I think my child would have been to blame for costing the OP taxi money.

Like you say, if the child hadn't taken the dress there wouldn't have been a problem. But the taxi would have needed paying whether or not the child took the dress. The taxi didn't need paying as a consequence of nasty child's actions.

MidniteScribbler Mon 03-Dec-12 00:31:53

I'd be wanting to know what the dance teacher is going to do about this, as ultimately it is her responsibility to make sure that all the students are dressed in their own clothing and ready to go on stage. I've been involved in dance all of my life, and there is no way that this other child should have needed to take another costume, as everything should be checked as the children arrive to make sure the have everything they need, and they should be dressed and prepared well in advance of the performance to give them time to sort out issues like this. Dance teacher should also keep a couple of spare costumes on hand, because you never know what can happen (not just people forgetting, but last minute rips, accidents, etc). I'd be wanting to know that better procedures were put in place for future performances so that this situation doesn't occur again.

I also think that there should be some punishment for the other child. A dance troupe is a team, and by doing this, she has seriously broken the trust of other members of the team and put the team at risk. She should be required to sit out any further performances (if there are more than one), or some other appropriate form of punishment (sweeping the dance studio, packing away chairs, whatever is appropriate for your studio) until she has earned the respect of her teammates back.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Mon 03-Dec-12 00:32:40

Seven year olds can be brats. At seven, they know its wrong to take something that belongs to someone else, and if they choose to do something they know is wrong and they know is going to cause distress for someone else, they also choose the consequence.

Viviennemary Mon 03-Dec-12 00:33:15

There's not much you can do about it now but put it behind you and warn your DD to be wary of this child in future. And the teacher should be alert as well. She is quite obviously not to be trusted. And the parents attitude is poor as well. Not even apologising. I'd be very annoyed too.

Viviennemary Mon 03-Dec-12 00:34:44

Just to add if I was the teacher I'd ask that child to leave and find another class. Sorry if this sounds harsh but she should learn actions have consequences.

piprabbit Mon 03-Dec-12 00:34:48

Midnite - I think you are right.

The other girl's action had a huge consequence for the OPs DD - even if she didn't realise it at the time of choosing to take the dress.
She needs to understand that actions have consequences, and I think she needs to suffer a consequence of her own to make sure she learns the lesson.

HollaAtMeBaby Mon 03-Dec-12 00:39:36

Yes Wilson, she is a thieving little bitch. Deliberately took something that wasn't hers because it suited her to do so, and lied to the teacher when asked to check her label even though the OP's daughter was dressless and upset. Definitely sociopathic behaviour!

MyNutcrackerSuiteAudrina Mon 03-Dec-12 00:46:26

Agree with Freddos shock grin

I would be burning with shame and would stop my DD from taking part in dance classes until she demonstrated that she was mature enough to understand what team effort was all about. I wouldn't inflict her on another group for some time.

My DD goes to a local class. They don't have a uniform or do exams, but they support each other no matter what. They really do. I've seen it many times and it's always amazing to see. That's what I want DD to learn from an after-school club.

RyleDup Mon 03-Dec-12 00:50:30

Outraged, I guess the child didn't know that the taking of that particular dress would incur the cost of £20. So I see your point there. But then again the parents should still take responsibility for that and make their child understand the consequences of their actions.
I understand that 7 yr olds can be brats, but what concerns me is why that child didn't get her dad to just fetch the costume out of the car for her. My dd is a brat, but I would really like to think she wouldn't be a brat like that and watch someone crying whilst she's wearing their clothes. I just don't think she would though, she would send her personal slave <me> to go get hers out the car.
I don't think what this child did is typical (bratish) behaviour of a 7 yr old though. Do you? <genuine interest>

BOFingSanta Mon 03-Dec-12 00:55:07

I'd go absolutely fucking apeshit at the girl's parents, yes, and I understand about you wanting the video deleted too. It's very easy to be philosophical when it isn't your daughter crying her eyes out.

Netmumsrule Mon 03-Dec-12 00:55:13

RyleDup- I am still horrified 20 hours later. I never thought a 7 year old could be so calculating.

NapaCab Mon 03-Dec-12 01:05:59

Netmumsrule I'd be upset too at what happened but I don't think you can do anything other than avoid the girl and her family in future and just tell your DD that she did a great job to keep going even though her costume was missing.

To think of it another way, it could be that the other girl has really awful parents who would have shouted at her if she had said she needed the costume from the car so she might have been too scared to ask her parents and thought it was easier to just take someone else's - 7-year old's have a different kind of logic!

Someone said upthread that you should go and get your DD's photo taken in her costume - that's a good idea to make her feel better about what happened. I guess she has now learned that some people in the world are just plain mean and there's not much you can do about it.

RyleDup Mon 03-Dec-12 01:06:05

Its harsh op. It really is. There must be other reasons why that child did that. I guess though, you need to sit down and talk to your dd about why people do things like that. Sometimes other peoples behaviour and the things they do are out of your control. Which is a fact of life anyway, just one she's had to learn too young. Point out to her that she was a star for going ahead with the show anyway, that the girl obviously has some problems that are to be pitied rather than despised, and take her out somewhere amazing and show her she's the best dd a mother could have. <apart from mine of course, grin>

CaliforniaSucksSnowballs Mon 03-Dec-12 01:47:15

I think the Dance teacher needs to have words with this child. It's her class and she must be quite serious and firm making sure this child knows what a horrible thing she did and how this kind of stealing behavior will not be tolerated. Maybe even impose some sort of punishment like missing a few lessons. (My boys sports teams have done this at this age as a punishment) or a recital. She knew exactly what she was doing thats why she was so nervous and didn't help look for the dress. If they let her get away with it, she will continue to think she is more important and can take what she likes duding these recitals.
I'd also ask the parents when I saw them, how is she going to be punished for this, or have they already punished her.

RedHelenB Mon 03-Dec-12 08:07:35

Rationally, you'll see it is n't reasonable to have that bit on the dvd. My kids dance in shows & there have been times when someone didn't get on stage on time, the dvd wasn't deleted. To expect the dance teachers to get them into costumes is unrealistic but it might be an idea to organise some parent chaperones to help with dressing. And yes, the parents of the girl should make her apologise to your daughter & well done to her for going on regardless - as they say, the show must go on!!!

MummytoKatie Mon 03-Dec-12 08:35:33

If the dress was for 2 performances and your dd wore it for one and the other girl for the other then I'd be requesting 50% of the cost from the parents. Haven't a clue if that is more or less than £20 but that is what she took so that is what they should pay.

bakedbeanqueen Mon 03-Dec-12 08:55:53

I don't think you can ask for the money back as you would have had to have gone home anyway. However, your poor girl. She definitely deserves an apology. I don't think you've got a chance of getting the video deleted. Just don't buy it and try to make light of it as best you can

cory Mon 03-Dec-12 09:07:39

The dance show seems badly organised. When I was a matron, we would be checking when every child arrived that they had their costume and if anything had been left in somebody's boot it would have been sorted then and there. Somebody would have been in charge of making sure that everybody was dressed in the correct costume well in advance of their entry. There were matrons, older children looking after the younger ones, somebody would have come up with a solution.

BOFingSanta Mon 03-Dec-12 11:52:12

Indoubt youll get very far with the twenty quid, but I'd want the girl to be spoken to by the teacher, and to apologise in front of the whole class, seeing as how your daughter had to undergo the humiliation of performing upset with no costume in front of all those people. That seems proportionate to me. I'd want it treated seriously.

blanksquit Mon 03-Dec-12 12:36:02

Yes I think that's really out of order but I don't see how you can ask them for the money.

I think she should be asked to apologise and it be at least made known to her that this is completely unacceptable.

7 is old enough to understand that we don't take things which don't belong to us.

She must have been aware that everybody was looking for the dress.

Journey Mon 03-Dec-12 12:38:30

I'd be furious if a girl took my DD's costume. The girl who stole it saw how upset your DD was and still didn't admit she had your DD's costume on.

I'd want an apology from the parents and although I wouldn't expect the £20 back from the taxi I would tell them about it.

The girl who took your DD's costume sounds very nasty. Stealing a dress and knowing a little girl is upset about it shows she is spiteful.

I'd probably want the part of the video showing your DD crying in the show deleted to especially if you didn't get a sincere apology from the girl and her parents.

Pandemoniaa Mon 03-Dec-12 12:44:19

I don't think you can ask the parents of the child that helped herself to your dd's dress for the taxi fare since leaving the costume at home was not their fault. You'd already discovered this had occurred and had taken the decision, yourself, to nip home and get it.

But I do question the organisation of the performance and the behaviour of the teacher. For starters, I am rather surprised that your dd was allowed onstage without the proper costume but actually, I am equally surprised that there's not some system to ensure everyone is dressed and ready in their own outfits. To tell you that your dd 'lost her dress' suggests an uninterested and uncaring attitude. At 7, a child is old enough to know that they don't simply help themselves to another child's dress but also, why is it such a muddle backstage?

I'd expect there to be consequences for the child who borrowed the dress. At the very least a serious telling-off but also, perhaps a suspension from dance class for a week or two?

Pandemoniaa Mon 03-Dec-12 12:46:04

PS. I really don't think you can ask for the DVD to be deleted though. That's not fair on all the other children who performed and also helped to look for the missing costume. It could be edited sensitively though so it doesn't highlight your daughter's distress.

Brycie Mon 03-Dec-12 12:49:34

miscellania, totally right, they should and apologise on their knees

what an unpleasant child

LoopsInHoops Mon 03-Dec-12 13:00:03

If I were OP I would make sure the other parents knew about the money (through dance teacher) and expect an apology. I'd also write a letter of complaint to the dance school, possibly requesting the money.

If I were the other parents I would make my daughter apologise, give the money and tell DD she would have one less Christmas present.

If I were the dance teacher I'd be mortified. I would explain the situation to the other parents, making it clear that the decent thing would be to give the money back.

If I were the owner/manager of the dance school I'd apologise in writing and waive fees for the amount of money.

LoopsInHoops Mon 03-Dec-12 13:02:08

Oh, and I love the award for 'the show must go on'. OP, if you want, email me the logo and name of the dance school, I'll knock up a certificate for you to print and give to teacher to sign and present (in front of all other parents if possible).

WileyRoadRunner Mon 03-Dec-12 13:09:05

YABU to ask for the cab fare as that has little to do with what went on.

YANBU to have told the girl off, or her parents - in fact I would be expecting the dance teacher to intervene.

I can also see why you wou want the DVD edited so that it is not a permanent record of you dd feeling humiliated.

Brycie Mon 03-Dec-12 13:17:16

Yes the parents should pay or the dance school especially should pay. Awful.

Brycie Mon 03-Dec-12 13:25:34

I would leave the dance school and find another one. See how they like the loss of your money. This would leave a really bad, nasty taste in the mouth for me. After school activities should at least offer some kind of pastoral care and affection and boost confidence. This is horrible.

These little girls are 7.

However you behave towards the other family will give your dd the lead on how to deal with tricky situations.

It sounds heartbreaking, watching your dd cry and miss out on her dance opportunity - but she will learn what tools she needs to get over this type of thing from you.

If you have a furious vendetta/grudge thing going on, she will learn that that is the way to go.

If, however, you calm down and commend your dd for her bravery, but perhaps wonder aloud whether other child was having a bad day or whatever or just say 'how sad little so-and-so hasn't learned that it's wrong to do this sort of thing yet, poor thing... Isn't it lucky you were so brave about it, and isn't it a shame other little girl is not so brave and didn't own up?'

Just saying, because really, we all want to teach our children about compassion and respect, and not holding unnecessarily onto bad stuff don't we?

Janeatthebarre Mon 03-Dec-12 13:36:29

The little girl who took the dress was a naughty little brat who should get a right giving out to for her behaviour. However, the parents sound rude and heedless so maybe this little girl hasn't been particularly well brought up. I would ask the teacher to have a word with her and leave it at that.

Brycie Mon 03-Dec-12 13:46:13

I really disagree with Scarletwoman. Tolerating and even respecting unpleasantness, unkindness, selfishness, lack of remorse?

No thanks. I would agree with my child that this girl is obviously badly brought up and SHE is the one who needs to learn something about life. I would also say that my child doesn't have to tolerate being treated badly by anyone and needs to be tough enough, emotionally and mentally, to make sure she isn't treated badly - not tough enough to put up with it when it (supposedly inevitably) happens.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Mon 03-Dec-12 13:48:06

I can't make head nor tail of your OP OP confused

Mosman Mon 03-Dec-12 13:56:53

This happened in dance class, so the dance school should deal with it, bring it up with however's in charge and make it clear your child expects it to be made up to her by whatever means are available.

ModernToss Mon 03-Dec-12 14:11:14

I still don't know, given that there were two dances and two dresses, whether the one that was 'borrowed' was the one the OP had gone home to fetch, or the other one.

In any event, I agree with ScarletWoman. Be the bigger person, and teach your child that lesson.

LettyAshton Mon 03-Dec-12 14:20:18

I have spent my whole life being the "bigger person" turning the other cheek, and I can tell you that you end up not being bigger, but flatter. In many cases, making a fuss is silly and unnecessary, and you can see the other person's reasoning. But in this instance the other child was clearly a cowardly thief. In my experience nasty 7-year-olds often become nasty grown-ups. Just as nasty old people were very likely to have been nasty in their 40s or whatever.

I would write to the dance school formally and without any reference to the £20 (which is the irrelevant part) state exactly what happened. I think they should ask this child to leave the dance school.

Btw, doesn't it sound like a story from a Mandy/Judy/Bunty magazine?!

BridgetBidet Mon 03-Dec-12 14:24:56

It's plain stealing and then lying when she was asked to check her dress as well.

I would expect the dance school to speak to the parents, explain what happened and mention that you would like the cab fare/cost of the dress reimbursed to you and also an apology to you and your daughter from the girl in question.

To be honest if they are reasonable parents and they find out that this has happened I don't think they will be unamenable to this, I think I would certainly do it if my child was the one concerned. And if they're not prepared to do this I think that the dance school should ask her to go elsewhere for lessons. The other kids at the school shouldn't have to put up with the presence of a child who steals and lies like this unless her parents are prepared to nip this sort of behaviour in the bud.

Agree with others who have said don't ask for the video to be deleted, that's unfair on the other kids. But certainly the other stuff I don't think you are being unreasonable at all.

BridgetBidet Mon 03-Dec-12 14:29:05

And ScarletWoman, I think you are very wrong. I would like my children to learn that they should behave in an acceptable manner which does not hurt other people and that if they don't it will have consequences.

This isn't just a 'grudge', if this girl thinks that she can go around behaving like this with no consequences because people will turn the other cheek she's going to grow up into a horrible adult and make other people's lives unpleasant. It would be doing the other girl a disservice to let this go without consequences.

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Mon 03-Dec-12 14:37:08

Poor DD.

I can see why you are gutted and what she is very sad.

But however we want to make things right as parents, our powers are limited.

The other girl was wrong to knowingly take someone else's outfit for a public performance.

Her parents know. The teacher knows. You have told the child. Other parents have heard what happened. It is published on MN, the other dance parents will recognise the event.

It is now in the past. For the future, I am sure your DD will watch her things like an hawk, not that it was her fault but I would be twice shy if I was in her shoes, and i can guess that you will not invite other child no your DD's party.

I think from the posts although I haven't read them all its obvious the child intentionally took the dress and didn't speak up when they were searching for it knowing dd was upset.

For that alone I would want the girl to be made to apologise to your dd with her parents present.

EugenesAxeChoppedDownANiceTree Mon 03-Dec-12 14:53:20

Well it stinks, but on the whole I think YABU - I don't think it's fair that the girl's parents reimburse your taxi fee because you would have had to incur it even if your DD had ended up not having her dress nicked. It's a sunk cost - irrelevent (yes, I am a sad accountant). If the dance school were at fault for not realising what had happened then they should perhaps compensate, but ultimately I think you'd be reliant on their goodwill.

I am cross though at the girl's attitude and think her parents deserve to be told so they can teach her right and wrong. In an ideal world they would offer you an apology...

I also don't think it's fair for that dance to be deleted on the video - if your DD had been tiptop for it and you thought it was one of her best dance performances, how would you feel being told it wouldn't be included because another girl was upset? I'm sure you would be sorry, but also feel that your DD should not pay for circumstances that were out of her control.

BridgetBidet - I think you and ScarletWoman are both right. The girl who stole should be disciplined, but it would not hurt to teach the girl who was injured forgiveness and understanding either.

My crack is in pain from all this fence-sitting.

Those who can't understand the op basically

Dd had 2 costumes for two dances
Dd forgot one and mum paid for a taxi to get it

When they got back ops dd wore costume one for first dance leaving the collected dress in changing room as told for the next dance.

When it came to dance two another child realising she had left her own dress in car stole the ops dd dress and didn't own up until after the dance in which ops dd was in tears and had no costume.

Kalisi Mon 03-Dec-12 15:21:22

YANBU OP, I would be fucking fuming! I'd be fuming at myself for forgetting the costume in the first place, I'd be fuming at the other girl for taking the costume, I'd be fuming at the dance teacher for allowing your child to go on stage upset without a costume and I'd be furious at the parents for not even having to take responsibility for what happened.

All could probably be rectified by just a simple acknowledgement from all the relevant parties that what your poor daughter went through was not her fault. Would an apology be so hard? I don't blame you for being furious OP.

CelineMcBean Mon 03-Dec-12 16:08:17

If I was the parent of the child who stole the costume I would be mortified and would apologize profusely and make my dd apologize too. There would also be a punishment. I would also insist on reimbursing the cab fare if I knew about that too although as op concedes it would be ur for her to expect it. However, there are two things that jump out at me: 1. The parents have not apologized 2. The child did not ask her parent to get her dress. My child would have no problem asking me for something she needed. She may be shy asking someone she didn't know but she would never be afraid of asking me. Both of those things suggest bad parenting or worse rather than a child with sociopathic tendencies.

That said, as the mother of the upset child I would be furious and would expect the dance teacher to take steps to resolve the issue by making sure it couldn't happen again and deleting the footage my visibly upset child. If possible I would think it could be refilmed so the other children and patents don't have to miss out.

iismum Mon 03-Dec-12 16:57:23

I think it would be good to try to get the other girl to understand that what she did was wrong, but without demonising her or labelling a horrible little bitch. Taking the dress in the first place was very wrong - not asking her father for her dress either indicates she is lazy and thoughtless or else she has a pretty terrible relationship with her father. Obviously she should have owned up once people started looking for it, but I can imagine the situation may have seemed overwhelming and terrifying to her. Someone called her a coward - well, maybe, yes, but that is not unusual in a seven year-old. I can remember doing things I really shouldn't have when I was young and getting trapped in the lie and being terrified of what I had got myself into. Yes, she should be told this is wrong - but she may just be shy and anxious rather than selfish and horrible.

KitchenandJumble Mon 03-Dec-12 17:22:15

I can absolutely understand why you and your DD are upset. Poor little thing, she must have been so unhappy to dance without her costume.

However, I don't think the parents should have to reimburse you for the taxi (and I see that you have also decided this wouldn't be reasonable). Nor would it be reasonable for the school to remove the video of the dance.

If I were the girl's parents, I would most certainly apologise to you and also insist the child apologise to your DD. I'd probably pull my child out of dance classes for a while as well.

The dance teacher has some responsibility here too. She should have checked all the costumes herself, and she should also have made certain your DD was O.K. before letting her go on stage. Why did they allow your DD to dance when she was clearly upset?

Having said that, I must say it's very disturbing to read posts demonising the little girl. Yes, she was wrong and should face the consequences of her actions. But she's a very young child who made a mistake. To call her "a thieving little bitch" is horrible. To label her "a budding sociopath" is patently absurd.

merrymouse Mon 03-Dec-12 17:31:53

If you think there is lack of discipline at the dance school or that your daughter is at risk of having more costumes stolen, discuss with the teacher and find out what she plans to do to make sure the situation doesn't happen again.

It sounds as though you have already expressed your feelings to the girl. To be honest, she may have been acting dishonestly, but at 7 I can quite imagine taking the wrong costume by mistake and then being too scared to admit it, particularly if there were adults on the rampage. If she turns to a life of crime, that is her parents' problem, not yours.

The £20 is irrelevant.

ThatVikRinA22 Mon 03-Dec-12 17:49:27

i think i would be expecting something more from the dance teacher to be honest - this is her show, her dance school, she should surely be setting some rules and sorting out problems as they occur?

i dont think yabu to be so upset about it - i would have been. The girl who took the dress needs to understand what her actions meant to your DD, and her parents need to deal with that, and so does the dance teacher. She surely needs to know that stealing another childs costume is not on! id be furious.

camdancer Mon 03-Dec-12 18:02:42

I'd be more furious with the dance teacher tbh. There is no way anyone should be onstage without their costume. I know things get fraught near to curtain up, but she needs to have some helpers to make sure things like this are sorted out without some poor child going onstage without a costume. Really, really dreadful. Was there a dress rehearsal before the show or anything like that? Or even just cast photos? That is where these things should be sorted out. Not left to a group of 7 year olds to sort out.

It is sad that the other girl felt she couldn't tell someone that her costume was in her dad's car still. I wonder who she is scared of. sad

Wheresmypopcorn Mon 03-Dec-12 18:05:28

Don't think you should tell the child she did a horrible thing - surely that is up to the parents? I do think you have the right to be upset but stuff happens. Why not take your DD out for a special celebration lunch to celebrate 'holding it all together' when things go wrong? Maybe you can get them to cut out any closeups of your DD out of the video but asking them to delete the whole thing is just overreacting.

Crinkle77 Mon 03-Dec-12 18:15:57

YABU you forgot the dress so would have had to get a cab to pick it up anyway.

SoupDragon Mon 03-Dec-12 18:23:12

You obviously can't ask the parents for the taxi fare but, if I were them, I would certainly be offering to pay it as well as hauling my DD over the coals for her bad behaviour.

justmyview Mon 03-Dec-12 18:41:55

Has anyone else seen the film "Carnage" with Kate Winslet & Jodie Foster? It starts off a bit like this ........... a brilliant film

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 03-Dec-12 19:30:27

Do the parents of the other girl even know this happened? It isn't clear.

Netmumsrule Mon 03-Dec-12 20:24:30

I am not 100% sure if they do know. tbh I would have expected them to have been contacted by now. Class is on Friday so maybe the cheerleading teacher is waiting to see if I bring it up again or maybe she will.
I will let you all know what happens and thank you all for taking your time to reply. Is can be easy to overthink when dd has gone to bed so you have all helped me.

Caerlaverock Mon 03-Dec-12 20:25:21

This is why dd doesn't do dance, dance parents are barking

Netmumsrule Mon 03-Dec-12 20:30:37

Merrymouse, she admitted she took it and said hers was in the boot of dads car. no apology, no remorse.

SkivingAgain Mon 03-Dec-12 20:31:53

I think you and DD deserve an apology and other girl needs to acknowledge what she has done was wrong.

I also don't think it would be unseasonable (yes, I spotted this MNHQ wink) to get that part of DVD deleted. I would be mortified if it was me and knew that over a hundred copies of my humiliation were in circulation.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 03-Dec-12 20:37:07

Ok what would happen if this happened at school eg for a nativity play?

School would take some action against the child and would inform the parents. You as the parent of the other child might or might not get any say in that or any knowledge of it. Eg if child got lines, you wouldn't know - if they had to write a letter if apology, you would.

How would you like DD's school to deal with a similar situation? That might help you (and DD?) think about this,

marriedinwhite Mon 03-Dec-12 20:40:10

Your dd and the girl that "borrowed" the dress behaved like 7 year olds. You need to behave like an adult, rise above it and teach your dd to do the same. It isn't the end of the world.

goralka Mon 03-Dec-12 20:41:17

well I see that you would be pissed off but i don't see the connection with the taxi fare tbh.

BluelightsAndSirens Mon 03-Dec-12 20:42:50

Maybe the little girl is scared f her dad and was worried she would get hit or shouted at in front of every one b her dad for leaving it in the boot?

I'm so glad my DDs don't like dance classes.

Coconutty Mon 03-Dec-12 20:45:40

If I had been the dance teacher, I would have checked the names in the girls dresses to make sure they had the right ones on, I do this quite often if something goes missing at school.

longjane Mon 03-Dec-12 20:46:16

right one i think your dd has learn a 2 lessons here
1 some people are bitches in show business and at the end of day it all about performance
and 2
look after you stuff
put on a peg with a bag over it so you see right away that someone has taken it .

can you not sew something on the back of costume so you dd knows where to look and then she see in a instance if it her costume. and kick up a fuss if the child does it again.

ladydeedy Mon 03-Dec-12 20:46:55

think you need to get out more?

StinkyWicket Mon 03-Dec-12 20:51:59

Does no one think that maybe the 'I was scared to ask dad to get it out of the car' was just a way to wriggle out of the responsibility that she stole and then lied? As clearly she was in no way bothered about what she had done?

OP, YANBU.

Netmumsrule Mon 03-Dec-12 20:55:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Netmumsrule Mon 03-Dec-12 20:57:24

Also, neck label had dd's name written in pen and teacher obviously trusted all of them.

BluelightsAndSirens Mon 03-Dec-12 21:00:23

I Said she may have been scared, I'm looking at it from another angle. I used to get punched around the ears if I forgot to do something at that age. I would never have told anyone I was scared though incase they told him.
I would just be silent and indifferent.

Netmumsrule wrote: the girl who did not help to find it had it on and when I asked her why she said she forgot hers and it was in her dads car boot. Her dad was watching the show so could have been found. I asked her why she took it and she didn't care and said 'it was there and I took it as mine is in the carboot.'

marriedinwhite Mon 03-Dec-12 21:03:01

Remembers dd's first ballet show and going to help because I said I would and also doing lifts because I said I would. Remembers putting six year old girls hair into buns and giggling and laughing with them. Remembers having a queue and bigging up my queue because little girl's mummies were getting harsh and strident and shouting and pulling hard on hair. Had to get the nasty mummies to wave a wand for magic hair piling, and to brush on blusher after the buns were done. It was one of the most awful experiences of my life and I had so desperately wanted to see dd in a tutu because I had to play the cat in a black catsuit and was emotionally damaged because I was never the "pretty" one.

Fortunately dd had the flu and was too ill to experience it and never wanted to go back to ballet anyway. Yah boo sucks.

FlouryWhiteBaps Mon 03-Dec-12 21:03:40

Think everyone is getting a bit ahead of themselves with the implication that the dad is an abusive tyrant who would've torn the girl from limb to limb for leaving her dress in the boot.

More likely that the girl, in an immature fashion, being seven years old and all that, decided that it would be easier to take a dress already in the room rather than having to get a message to her dad already sat out there in the audience. She probably panicked and figured she would delay or miss the show otherwise, then, as others have said, didn't know how to explain herself when the shit hit the fan.

I don't condone what she did at all, and I feel very sorry for your dd who deserves a sincere apology from all concerned, but implications of abusive dads and sociopathic seven year olds seems to be taking it a bit far.

BluelightsAndSirens Mon 03-Dec-12 21:16:28

Oh ok, it is easier for all that she is just a 7 year old brat who spoilt ops DDs performance then.

I knew with the ops username and a conversation about dance shows it would not bode well.

Netmumsrule Mon 03-Dec-12 21:25:45

OK! I will change my username- it was out of humour. Will think of one and post it in next post!

WitchCrafter Mon 03-Dec-12 21:59:42

ok- my new name...

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 13:42:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Fri 07-Dec-12 13:58:41

WHAT!?

Your daughter has something stolen from her and she gets excluded!?

Excuse me while I retrieve my jaw from the floor. I am staggered!

DoingTheBestICan Fri 07-Dec-12 14:02:33

Wow! Well I wouldn't let that lie for one minute,I would actually pick up the phone and ask her to explain herself properly.

She sounds a shit teacher actually and yes I would then forward her very rude text to all the other mums and see how many pupils she has at the end of next week!

I am shocked.

Proudnscaryvirginmary Fri 07-Dec-12 14:03:29

Look I really feel for you daughter and I get why you are annoyed.

BUT the reason why your daughter is excluded is, I imagine, because you have been very rude, demanding, hysterical, obsessive and generally seen as something of a nutter now - and you absolutely should NOT have challenged the little girl in the beginning.

She is 7/8 years old - take it up, politely and calmly with the parents, not a child FGS.

Oh come on really??

your dd has been asked to leave the class? is that what you are saying? and the class is today but they didnt bother to let you know that she was excluded until you text them?

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 14:45:47

my message- i hope you are well. Dd has been tearful about the incident and I have asked people for advice as I was unsure if I was being overprotective. she is concerned she is the only one on the dvd without uniform and I would like to know what will be done about the other girl? I would like tospeak to her parents about effort of cab as well.Had I not brought dd costume 2 kids would have been without.Other girl knew she was wrong and did not apologise. I want the class to know so they know dd did not let them down and would like to thank them for helping.at 7 they know right from wrong and other girl should not be allowed back for a term or could go to other venue. Do other girls know?
Reply- I have taken some time to digest your message and feel in light of every thing I will have to ask dd to leave the school.This makes me sad as I have grown fond of dd over the 1.5 yrs.I will not be told how to run my class and who should and shouldnt come. I will not also allow have another parent abuse other parents, my staff or myself in the way you did during and aftr the show on saturday. With regret dd will not be welcome today or rest of term.as you owe me we can take it classes are covered. I have others trialling today. I will not discuss this and ask you not to contact me or visit as I would have to take the necessary action
MY REPLY- I am sorry you feel like this and i am shocked. I was obviously upset and rightfully so as you said it was lost and I knew it was not. It is unfair you take dd out and we should talk.i did not talk in a bad way to any staff. I would like to come today and you taking ss out makes it seem she is in the wrong and not other.
Reply from-
This is not dd fault and my decision is final
MY REPLY- Can I not just drop her off. She has already given up ballet and tap due to health and this will truly upset her. I wanted to clear the air with the other parents. dd should be aloowed to see her friends, even if it was last time.
HER REPLY I have new children trialling and will not have a scene caused,. I am not prepared to discuss further. Do not sent me another message or come to class tonight or I will take necessary action.
MY REPLY- dd wants to se her friends, even if it is a last time. I have told her you are upset with me. Do the girls parents know?
HER REPLY I will not discuss this further. Do not come tonight.

Wow. She is an educator and feels that this is the way to deal with stealing and lying. Your DD is best away from that woman. Your DD will be sad and I'm sorry but do you want her near people who behave this way? Shocking.

ChristmasIsForPlutocrats Fri 07-Dec-12 15:09:00

Gosh. You need a new AIBU thread for this!

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Fri 07-Dec-12 15:09:24

Ok Witch, I think you need to leave it now. I don't think you would want
DD going back with this level of bad feeling anyway. I hope you find another class or activity for her.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 15:09:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LividDil Fri 07-Dec-12 15:14:37

It seems to be an increasing feature of Aibu that some people don't read the posts.
YANBU re other child being disciplined and you making attempt to get fare back.
YABU to ask for vid to be deleted.
I do feel for your daughter. What a horrible thing for the other child to do.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 15:18:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

What an absolute bithch that teacher is.
Your poor DD.
I would be telling her that DD will be continuing at the class or you'll be going to the local press with this story.
Complete overreaction by the teacher.

I have a lot of experience of dance schools, some are great, some are so far up their own backsides its unbelievable, especially people who have had minor success in my own experience.

y dd was at a dance school in a FUN class for 2 -3 year olds, one of the little girls had SN. There was much conversation when She started over this child's legs (she had growth problems) she was accepted but a few weeks later asked to leave as she made noises because of her SN and the teacher found it distracting! We left.

I also had the teacher who would never put my dd forward for exams or let her join in the shows as she did a seperate class in a different style they didn't offer elsewhere.

So I can fully believe it.

Leave it and find another class.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 15:21:12

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Actually, other posters are correct, ignore me.
You wouldn't want your DD taught by this woman.

Maybe you should email her a link to this thread?

Proudnscaryvirginmary Fri 07-Dec-12 15:27:08

Well I'm afraid I still think OP probably has caused waaaaay more of a stink and a holler and a scene than was needed and that is why dance teacher is ousting dd.

I think you need to look to yourself OP.

And if you are emailing the other parents then don't for the love of God go over the whole thing again!

RyleDup Fri 07-Dec-12 15:27:43

Wow, she sounds like a complete bitch. Your poor dd. I'd be leaving that teacher bad reviews all over the place. Your dd is better off without that woman as her teacher.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 15:31:17

Terra- do you really think the press would be interested?

I really don't see what the OP has done wrong proud, A bit unreasonable about wanting the cab fare back IMO but other than that I think she has done anything wrong.

The villains of the piece are the girl who stole the dress and the teacher who has acted disgracefully.

Local press up here would, but very small place, if you are in a big city maybe not.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Fri 07-Dec-12 15:36:32

Witch

What do you think the teacher means by you abusing her, other parents and the staff?

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 15:40:49

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

is it dance or cheerleading, sorry its a bit confusing.

ImperialSantaKnickers Fri 07-Dec-12 15:46:50

placemark

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 15:47:54

Doctrine- she did not want me to speak to other girls parents. Abusing- i have no idea? When dance teacher came to me and said dd had forgotten dress I was narked off and said I'd already lost £30 as dd had to drop a saturday class to do the show and it would cost me more....
I can raise my voice when frustrated but have never been violent and I ALWAYS apologise when I know I have been wrong.

Proudnscaryvirginmary Fri 07-Dec-12 15:48:08

Terra - we all know parents that kick up a huge stink about stuff when a calm, adult word will do.

Truthfully? I would never have had a go at the other little girl. I would not have blamed anyone really. Shit happens when it comes to lots of busy parents and young kids and rushing around this time of year.

OP herself has admitted more than once to being OTT. Dance teacher probably thought 'fuck this, she's going to put off other parents with her histrionics'.

That's not to say I don't really feel for her dd - I know it's a big deal to a little girl not to have had the costume.

why do you keep saying dance and then changing to cheerleading?

lisad123 Fri 07-Dec-12 15:53:39

Wow, teacher sounds awful. Clearly thinks too highly of herself and can't be bothered to deal with parents. shock

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 15:56:15

Tantrum- dd does tap and cheerleading. It is cheerleading that will be missed. There are lots of tap classes.

KitchenandJumble Fri 07-Dec-12 15:56:28

I'm afraid I agree with Proudnscary. I would imagine the OP's overreaction caused quite a stir at the school.

At the same time, I think the dance teacher has also handled the situation extremely badly, both on the night of the show and in her subsequent reaction. So all in all, the OP will be better off in the long run.

BookieMonster Fri 07-Dec-12 15:59:33

How did you behave after the show? It sounds as though the teacher has a problem because of events after the performance.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 16:00:52

If teacher cared at all, she only had to acknowledge and say she would have a word with other girls parents and she was sorry she did not check name labels on dress. She obviously only cares for her pocket.

BookieMonster Fri 07-Dec-12 16:02:31

Did you overreact on the night?

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 16:03:22

Bookie, I was the last to leave after the show and told teacher dress was found and she asked who had it. I said other girl knew and it wasn't am accident. She didn't say anything apart from 'oh dd still went on stage and did well'.
She didn't give a ff

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Fri 07-Dec-12 16:03:25

Witch

Re the DVD, my understanding is that you don't have any legal rights in this situation to withdraw permission - any guidance re checking with parents first before taking pictures is voluntary.

The rules of the dance school organisation may be different but just wanted to clarify that.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 16:11:12

Bookie, I was the last to leave after the show and told teacher dress was found and she asked who had it. I said other girl knew and it wasn't an accident. She didn't say anything apart from 'oh dd still went on stage and did well'.
She didn't seem to care and I stupidly assumed she was just tired.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 16:11:56

Thanks doctrine.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 16:13:37

Bookie, teacher just wanted to ignore and expected dd to go to class as if nothing had happened.

Familyguyfan Fri 07-Dec-12 16:26:21

Honestly, if this had happened to my daughter I wouldn't contact the teacher again. I would simply bad mouth the classes to anyone who would listen, explaining what had happened. People can then make up their own minds as to whether or not they wish their child to be treated in this manner. I wouldn't!

gettingeasier Fri 07-Dec-12 16:28:45

Sorry OP I think you have reaped what you sowed here

Maybe you should have just let DD go to class as if nothing happened

Yes the other girls behaviour was wrong but things like this do happen

Yes it must have been upsetting for your DD to have had to perform out of costume but I would have focused on how well she handled it and whilst privately felt disappointed and sad for her recognised these things are soon forgotten

Raised voices and certainly speaking directly to the girl was a huge mistake in an environment with young children

To be honest what should the teacher have usefully done ? The show was over.

I think to still be feeling sufficiently annoyed days later and send the teacher the text you did was crazy. Far too strong a reaction to what actually happened which was a 7yo girl in a dance team whipped your DDs dress when she didnt have her own resulting in your DD having to go on in her normal clothes.

I suppose the teacher feels that her responsibility is to teach dance and does not want to deal with discipline or squabbles. She clearly does not feel that the dress being taken was as big a deal as you do.

Expelling your DD from the class is a total overreaction though. It makes me wonder what else had gone on - Have you complained before about anything? Do you dominate after class time with the teacher? Has your DD been involved in petty squabbles with other pupils?

If the honest answer is no then your DD leaving is probably for the best. It feels like the girl that stole your DDs dress is being put first for whatever reason. Do you really want your DD in a class with that teacher or to line her pockets?

ChristmasIsForPlutocrats Fri 07-Dec-12 16:35:40

This thread is bound to go poof now, what with the liberal sprinkling of the school's name about the place, not to mention the location....

FeelingFestiveCheerMum Fri 07-Dec-12 16:38:34

OP, I would have a look at the UKCA website. They have a club finder facililty so you can find your dd a PROPER cheerleading class, rather than the shit-fest that you used to go to grin

www.ukca.org.uk

\o/

ChristmasIsForPlutocrats Fri 07-Dec-12 16:38:54

Sorry, I meant to add that the teacher will never now accept any blame for this, now that her school has been named; if anything, that will harden her resolve. Witchcrafty, maybe you could withdraw your posts, so the thread stands as a discussion in which people can be genuinely impartial, rather than a forum for attacking or defending a school with which they may have undeclared links.

There's still scope for discussion of the situation, but not with the school's name in full view, IMO.

TinyDancingHoofer Fri 07-Dec-12 16:42:36

At 7 that other girl definitely knew she was in the wrong. She stole someones else's dress and watched her get upset. I don't think you were over the top to say what you said to her, it's not like you screamed bloody murder.

I would definitely have spoken to her parents after the show, they should know that their daughter is thieving and teach her to respect others possessions. I don't think you will get the cab fare, you might have if you'd asked on the night and acted very outraged.

Hope your dd isn't too upset.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 16:46:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ruprekt Fri 07-Dec-12 16:46:46

Well done for standing your ground.

I would have been cross too about the whole incident but would not want to send my child to be taught by such a cow!

Am sorry you are both upset and I do think that other child should have been reprimanded for nicking the costume and I would have wanted to be reimbursed for the £20.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 16:50:06

Old bad- answer is no. We were always on good polite terms.

BarceyDussell Fri 07-Dec-12 16:51:17

I'm not sure who was in the wrong here.

Teacher seems to think you made a scene, you say not.

Hard to be sure.

I'm all for standing up for our DC, but I also try to explain to my DC that sometimes people do bad things, and we have to move on from them. If it was clear that the teacher wasn't going to sort out the other little girls parents I would NOT be sending her lengthy texts telling her to exclude the child.

I would have explained to DD that the incident was in the past. I would have lied actually, and said it had been dealt with.

The only person who is suffering as a result of your actions is your DD, because you were OTT.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 16:51:26

Christmas is for pluto- how can I withdraw posts with the name in?

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 16:52:20

Feeling festive- thanks. I will take a look.

TinyDancingHoofer Fri 07-Dec-12 16:53:00

I would definitely have spoken to her parents after the show, they should know that their daughter is thieving and teach her to respect others possessions. I don't think you will get the cab fare, you might have if you'd asked on the night and acted very outraged.

Could you contact her superior about her behaviour and the whole incident?

TinyDancingHoofer Fri 07-Dec-12 16:53:38

Sorry my post seems to have spilt in two blush

BarceyDussell Fri 07-Dec-12 16:53:51

"I simply asked other girl where her costume was and she said dads car boot and then asked why she took dd's and she said- because it was there. I then asked her to please give me dd's dress back which she did."

But your OP says:

"I asked her why she took it and she didn't care and said 'it was there and I took it as mine is in the carboot.'
I told her it was a horrible thing and to return it and she took it off and didn't even apologise."

You told a 7 year old who wasn't your own child that something she did was a horrible thing.

LemonBreeland Fri 07-Dec-12 16:55:53

I can see why she kicked your dd out tbh. You told her that the other girl should be suspended. She sees you as trouble.

I understand you wanting something to be said to the other girl, but you were telling her what to do and she obviously didn't like that.

I feel sorry for your dd. Because of the actions of the teacher, but mostly your actions.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 17:01:41

Darcey- I did not shout, raise my voice, simply said. Her parents haven't a clue and she probably told them the costume she wore was a spare one.

BarceyDussell Fri 07-Dec-12 17:03:51

It's Barcey, actually ;)

I didn't say you shouted or raised your voice. I'm saying you may not quite have a handle on how you came across or what you said.

Your OP said you told the little girl that she did a horrible thing but in later posts you've said you simply asked her why she did it and to give the costume back.

You can make a scene without shouting and screaming. You can intimidate a child of 7 without raising your voice.

GreenEggsAndNichts Fri 07-Dec-12 17:08:07

um. Well, I was on your side about quite a bit of the original question, but in light of your messages to and from the teacher, I think YABU. I think you made more of a scene than you think you did. And telling the teacher to exclude the other girl was OTT. This is not an excludable offense, it's a little girl who wasn't doing anything she would have thought to be malicious. This is something that, at most, needs to be handled with the parents and the teacher.

Also, you probably think you're being clever by continuing to put the school's name in the thread, but all that is going to do is get the thread deleted. sad

I agree with others, you can take this to the local paper if you feel it important enough.

BarceyDussell Fri 07-Dec-12 17:08:15

Your posts are very inconsistent, OP. On Sunday you said

"The parents know but I have had no apology..."

But you have just posted:

"Her parents haven't a clue and she probably told them the costume she wore was a spare one."

Which is it?

ChristmasIsForPlutocrats Fri 07-Dec-12 17:09:19

If you want to withdraw posts with the school name, you click on "report" opposite your posts. However, there are now quite a few of them, so the thread might start to make less sense; also, I get the sense you want to name them. However, that means it's more likely this teacher will see this and have the thread pulled for privacy/libel reasons (they don't have to prove libel to MNHQ: this isn't the Guardian!). Then you'll feel even more frustrated and angry about this situation. FWIW, from what you've said here, the teacher has handled this very badly. However, that means she won't handle it well if she realises she's being talked about online, and some of the people who now feel sympathy with you may turn against you because they consider that naming the school on this thread - rather than leaving it an anonymous discussion - is a bit OTT.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 17:09:54

Barcey- sorry. I guess it happened so fast.
The truth and facts are the dance teacher did not handle it at all and only cares about her pocket and has no morals.

gettingeasier Fri 07-Dec-12 17:13:18

I think what you did was more impactful than you, in your upset state, would have realised.

As Barcy has picked up on you do seem to changing the detail of exactly what happened as well

MadBanners Fri 07-Dec-12 17:15:35

Wrong to now exclude your dd, but really, suggesting a term exclusion for the 7 year old who wore your dd costume for all of one dance is a bit ott. Which to me suggests you have been ott last week also, and ranted and raved and generally made a scene. Instead of just going, "oh well, at least you danced lovely and really stood out"

Other girl is a 7 year old child, hardly a villain, and yes did wrong, but then she is 7, and who makes well thought out choices and decisions at 7.

Acky123 Fri 07-Dec-12 17:28:50

It's the dance teacher's school and it's up to her who attends.

Sounds like you kicked off in the heat of the moment and the teacher didn't take well to being told what to do.

YABU. Can't believe people are calling the teacher a bitch.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 17:34:20

Christmas- i have reported my posts with the name- thanks for telling me.

I did tell dd I am proud of her and she knows it.

Other girl only joined this term and dd has been there 18m...

I believe in karma.

BarceyDussell Fri 07-Dec-12 17:37:24

So do the parents know or not?

HildaOgden Fri 07-Dec-12 17:38:01

' I will not also allow have another parent abuse other parents, my staff or myself in the way you did during and aftr the show on saturday.'

I think that's the reason the teacher will not allow you anywhere near the school now.And I think you were a lot more aggressive/intimidating than you are prepared to admit,even to yourself.

And what's more....the teacher has plenty of witnesses (parents,staff and herself)....to back up her version of events.There are always at least 2 sides to every story,and I have a funny feeling that your actions on that night were far more agitated/aggressive/intimidating than could possibly be considered reasonable.

Be honest with yourself.Because you are leaving yourself wide open for a defamation suit.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 17:43:16

I am being honest- I was not abusive. I left the teacher on good terms last week.

The other parents do not know.

HildaOgden Fri 07-Dec-12 17:50:19

Well then I think you need to seek legal advice on how to handle her falsely accusing you of being abusive,in that case.

MadBanners Fri 07-Dec-12 17:51:20

Bet their daughter mentioned to them you had called her horrible and made her strip though!

Your daughter would not have been at all as upset about it if you had not reacted the way you have. Just saying, that she had danced very well, and all the other ppl watching probably thought she was the star of the show as she was dressed differently, and she would have been happy and forgot all about it.

the other child has already been reprimanded by you, and then you also wanted her excluded/moved and to stand up in front of the class and apologise. How many punishments does she need for a badly thought out action that should have been forgotten about within an hour?

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 17:56:39

I asked her 'can you please give me dd's dress back'. It is a summer dress worn over leggings and leotard- what my dd ended up wearing on stage. That is not unreasonable.

HildaOgden Fri 07-Dec-12 18:00:37

I honestly think you should cut your losses and write this off as one of life's unpleasant experiences.

I have no doubt that part of your daughters upset was due to the worry of how you would react...as at the very first part of your post says,you were already annoyed that she had forgotten to bring her outfit herself.

It all went downhill from there,you got more and more irate and things escalated.I have to say I still believe you very far more intimidating to everyone around you than you are admitting (perhaps you aren't even aware of your 'presence' when angry).

The teachers carefully considered response to you,in writing (well,in text) makes me believe she is damn sure of her case being believed and believes that anyone that witnessed it will back her up.

gettingeasier Fri 07-Dec-12 18:07:59

OP YANBU to have felt upset about what happened

YABU in almost every other respect and I agree demands for this girl to be punished as per your text are completely stupid bordering on vindictive. Also your subsequent name dropping and extraneous details about the school how it started are just rants.

You seem unwilling to see how your behaviour was wrong and only how hard done by you are

I imagine had DD gone to class today nothing would have been said and she could have happily continued and you could have waited for the karma you keep referring to to take place.

If I were you I would consider your part in all this and learn something from it

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 18:09:16

Off course- she pays her staff who have no choice to defend her.

If I did come across as so angry then surely she should have sent a polite text or email during the week saying- thank dd for keeping it together, or sorry I din't check labels.. anything to acknowledge she actually cared would calm anyone down (even me). I'm not unreasonable, just disgusted she wanted to ignore it. She is the ambassador of her school.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 18:13:01

It has taught me how nasty people in the performing arts industry can be.

If I was wrong last Saturday surely the teacher could have blown it over by clearing the air at the beginning of the week.

She has never once admitted to not checking the kids dress name tags. She has not apologised at all yet I have.

MadBanners Fri 07-Dec-12 18:16:48

So now she has no morals, is going to force her employees to lie for her and is nasty! Or is it the 7 year old child who is nasty!?

CelineMcBean Fri 07-Dec-12 18:24:53

I had a lot of sympathy for your original op but having read your recent posts including the email exchange where you appear to be suggesting the other child should be asked to leave I have revised my opinion.

Op you sound like a complete nightmare and seem to have lost all perspective on the situation. I don't think the teacher has handled this well but I can understand that she has reached her limit with your aggravating messages and just wants you to stop.

I would walk away and have a think about your behaviour. By your own admission you have a tendency to raise your voice in anger and I am really shocked that any adult would expect another adult to intervene and lead the girl away if you went too far and that you have added your behaviour never gets so bad as to be violent!

You have serious issues and your energy would be better spent tackling those instead of pursuing this further.

CelineMcBean Fri 07-Dec-12 18:27:31

Not email, text.

I agree with poster who says the texts should vindictive but also op is banging on about the can fare again!

CelineMcBean Fri 07-Dec-12 18:28:47

Dyac! Sound not should, cab not can.

<<gives up>>

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Fri 07-Dec-12 18:33:31

OP, what was it that you did that you apologised for?

HildaOgden Fri 07-Dec-12 18:35:29

Oh get over yourself,seriously.

You were even pulled up over it at the time by one of the other parents who witnessed your demeanour.

The teacher is now ensuring that the parents,children and staff will not have to deal with you.Don't you see that???It's not your dd that is being excluded....it is you.

My bet is that the only discussions taken place among the parents right now are about how Witchcrafter went ballistic at one of the kids.The teacher has quite possibly spent the week assuring all the other parents that this will never happen again.

You started by being angry at your own daughter,then being angry at the 7 year old,then being angry at the teacher.If a staff member agrees,its because they 'are on the payroll'.

Seriously....you need to step back and let that red mist subside.

BarceyDussell Fri 07-Dec-12 18:43:06

Yes, I also want to know what you apologised for.

Also, you say

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 15:09:28

I guess I was harsh but I've had no apology for dance school not checking labels and they have not even told other girls parents.

So you were harsh. What did you do that was harsh?

And you keep saying you want the school to take action, but you acted yourself..you asked the little girl why she did what she did, you told her it was a horrible thing and you made her give back the costume.

The dance teacher probably thought that that was enough, no?

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 18:47:28

I suggested other girl asked to go to another venue or leave. Yes, it may be harsh but she only started recently and dd was there 1.5 yrs.

I said if I was so bad the other parent would have taken the culprit away. I would do the same if I felt someone was being unfair to a child in the same class.

I said employees would stand up for her- they are her friends as well.

Nothing has been said or done this week and teacher should be professional and even have said AT THE VERY WORST lets take a break as its the last few weeks and talk in the new year. She just had no sympathy for dd nor admitted she should have checked the labels, nor apologising to me for sayng' dd lost the dress.'

I can see various points of view here but I am now glad I've found out how unprofessional the dance school is.

CelineMcBean Fri 07-Dec-12 18:53:06

My toddler gets angry, shouts and tantrums and then apologises. I forgive him because he is 2 years old and I'm his mum. If a grown woman behaved like that I would back away slowly and take steps to protect anyone I was respinsible for from her.

But it's ok because the op has "never been violent" and it is apparently the dance teacher's job to "calm anyone down (even me)".

Witch you sound unhinged.

ScarletWomanoftheChristmasTree Fri 07-Dec-12 18:53:09

So, er, what was your apology for?

amothersplaceisinthewrong Fri 07-Dec-12 18:53:10

I think Dance schools bring out the worst in people. They ake themselves far too bloody seriously.

BlueberryHill Fri 07-Dec-12 18:54:27

Thinks, must steer DD towards kickboxing, less stressful.

MadBanners Fri 07-Dec-12 18:58:49

Can you not see suggesting she be expelled is far too much of a punishment for what she has done. Unless I read wrong and she pulled out a weapon and made your dd strip so she could have the costume.

it was a dance, a single solitary dance, that she used a costume that was not hers for, and you are still blethering on about it a week later and wanting her banished from the class, as she has less right to be there as she has been there a shorter time. She was already reprimanded by you, which should be enough, and tbh should have been left to her parents, but that should have been the end of it, not dragging on for a week, with the expectaion of the dance teacher having to ring you midweek to check on the progress of dd. If dd was so upset and sobbed throughout her performance, do you not stop to think where this may have come from, it is all a bit making a mountain out a molehill.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 19:08:28

Scarlet, I texted and said I apologise for being cross but wanted to know if other girls parents had been told (if teacher did then I would have left it but she refused to answer any questions)

GoldQuintessenceAndMyhrr Fri 07-Dec-12 19:11:41

Op, you sound unhinged.

The dance teacher was professional. She is protecting her club, her students, and the parents. The little girl had already been told off by a nasty woman and asked to strip. Dont you see this is wrong?

ScarletWomanoftheChristmasTree Fri 07-Dec-12 19:15:49

Oh, ok, thanks for clearing that up.

How do you feel about the situation now op? The whole thing has become much bigger hasn't it, sort of snowballed...

How is your DD now?

ProphetOfDoom Fri 07-Dec-12 19:28:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

seems like a small thing to end such a big investment over. teacher has pretty much cut you out so don't see how anything can be done now.

best thing to do is find another similar activity.

shame.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 19:29:35

The weekly class was today and dd was apprehensive and wanted to know if the other girl would be nasty to her so I texted the teacher.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 19:36:36

I also said could other girl be asked to go to another venue as well- she has 5 advertised on her website.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Fri 07-Dec-12 19:37:45

Witchy if DD was worried, why not ask that instead of all the stuff about did the other girls know, the can fare etc

Why not "Miss X, Dd is nervous about seeing other girl tonight, can you keep an eye out?"

gettingeasier Fri 07-Dec-12 19:39:37

FGS you are making it up as you go along

GoldQuintessenceAndMyhrr Fri 07-Dec-12 19:45:33

Seeing as you have named the club, how do you know that nobody has emailed this thread to the club?

look - you shouldn't have asked for the other girl to be moved. yes, she shouldn't have taken the costume, but that's a total over-reaction.

so now you escalated it that far, the teacher just doesn't want the aggro. can't say i blame her despite all the rights and wrongs of parties involved.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 19:55:28

Doctrine, I guess I was upset as dd was nervous today and yes did go overboard but no excuse for teacher to ignore incident.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 19:56:38

Gold- I asked mumsnet to remove posts with name .

GoldQuintessenceAndMyhrr Fri 07-Dec-12 19:57:00

The teacher would not be at liberty to give you any details as to how she dealt with the incident, as it was not your child.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 20:01:47

Gold, I did not ask girl to strip. They had a leotard and leggings on under a summer dress. I asked her if she could please give me dd's dress back which I needed anyway as was end of the show and was dds.

tbh teacher should never have had asked if we wanted to buy the dresses in the summer. She could keep costumes.

natation Fri 07-Dec-12 20:01:48

As the name and location of the dance school is still mentioned in a post, it took me about 20 seconds to find the website of this dance school. I think OP you might want to ask for the whole thread to be withdrawn before you get yourself into deeper trouble.

I can understand you're upset, but for you and your daughter's sake, to avoid this getting serious, I'd just keep a dignified silence now.

OP - You're getting a bit of a hard time of it. I understand why you're so cross though.
It's unfair that you went to the expense of having to go back home to get a costume that your DD wasn't able to wear because someone else took it and didn't own up. Horrible for your DD as the teacher said it was lost when your DD knew full well it wasn't. I feel so sorry for your DD.

I think you went a bit far suggesting to the teacher what course of action she should take but when you're caught up in the moment I suppose all perspective goes out of the window.

How did your DD take the news that she wouldn't be going back to the dance class?

gettingeasier Fri 07-Dec-12 20:04:47

Thats the whole point this a WEEK LATER !! That is the basis on which she is getting a hard time from me

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 20:04:53

Gold, she could have simply said, 'don't worry, I've dealt with it.'
Teacher has never once been surprised or cared it was done. Maybe it is normal in her world.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 20:06:31

nataiotn- I did report all posts where name was mentioned a few hours ago.

crunchbag Fri 07-Dec-12 20:09:36

Gold, she could have simply said, 'don't worry, I've dealt with it.' She might have said that if you hadn't sent that text demanding the expulsion of the other girl. Can you really not see how wrong that was, no matter how long your dd has been a pupil.

All this about a costume, really shock

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 20:13:57

gold I did not demand. She could have replied I was overboard and said- I will make sure everyone knows dd did not lose her costume and ask other girl to apologise.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 20:18:12

Yes, I was wrong but teacher blatantly told me 'dd lost it' and never once apologised.
I admitted I was harsh when I replied.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 20:31:09

crunchbag, yes I was wrong but did apologise. She never once did for stating dd lost it.

I think I will open the bottle of Chateauneuf du Pape now that I got the teacher for xmas! I have never given her a pressie before and bought it last week as I thought she was a nice person, allowing me to pay in installments.

simplesusan Fri 07-Dec-12 21:18:25

I would find a new dance school op. Try and chill out a little, but I too would have been livid about the other child stealing my dds dress.

WitchCrafter Fri 07-Dec-12 21:26:59

Susan, I am doing just that. A few weeks ago I was told by a paeditrician dd probably has rheumatoid arthritis and me and dd had to cut back on her dance so she stopped ballet and tap. Cheerleading seems easier for her health so we kept it on which is why I have been more sensitive about her.

WitchCrafter Sat 08-Dec-12 17:39:51

I feel much better now. I have said what happened, shown the text exchange to people at 2 well known dance school in London and have been told by both that I was not out of order, teacher should have ensured me other girl would be disciplined and parents spoken to- if not at the show I should have been contacted beginning of week. As it was not actioned at all the teacher was unprofessional and should never have asked dd to leave. It sets a bad reputation that that Cheerleading/ dance school has no morals in what is already seen to be a 'cut throat' business and they must want to attract students who are out for themselves.
Both schools would have disciplined other girl as it would be gross misconduct if it was at a full time dance/ performing arts school depending on show coverage.
I have been told chaperones/ helpers should have been there and there should have been one in the cloakroom/ changing area, also as teacher knew dd's dress was not lost she should not have passed that comment and been honest rather than giving dd the blame.
Thank you everyone who has pmd me, understood my feelings and even made me see that I can come across as hostile when I don't trust trust someone. Dd had a show the night before which other people were unhappy about and I accepted. I'm glad the New Year is coming so I can eliminate greedy, unethical people from my life.
Please pm if anyone knows of any decent dance/ drama etc classes around centre/ sw London where honesty is valued.

HildaOgden Sat 08-Dec-12 17:51:43

Why don't you enrol your daughter at either of the 2 well known dance schools who agree with you?

MadBanners Sat 08-Dec-12 19:30:26

Well, I am glad that I do not have my daughter involved in anything where using a dance costume for all of one dance would be classed as gross misconduct. Seems ott responses are the norm. And the other dance school with apparently "no morals" wants to attract students out for themselves, as in young children, 7 year olds like your daughter?

CelineMcBean Sat 08-Dec-12 20:32:35

Yup you still sound utterly bonkers op. You are going to ignore all the comments on here and just listen to people that agree with you. No doubt there was an element of "just nod and smile" with the other dance schools. Assuming it really happened that two other businesses would choose to embroil themselves in a spat where they were not party to all the facts or both sides.

I have made a mental note of the dance school should my dc be inclined to want to do dance when they are older.

WitchCrafter Sat 08-Dec-12 22:04:19

Hilda- she is at those two- they don't do cheerleading. At one of the them- 3 months ago- a girl took dd's class uniform at end of class as the girl had lost hers. The teacher contacted me, told me he caught the girl taking it out dd's holdall and took it from her. He said he spoke to her parents and her and I was fine with that. It was nipped in the bud. The cheerleading teacher knew about this incident as we did ask her if that uniform was left at her premises by mistake then later told her what had happened.

I have not ignored 'all the comments on here and just listen to people that agree with' me. I have said I was wrong. However, the cheerleading school instigated by deciding to ignore what happened and I waited until a few hours dd was supposed to go in.
I asked the teacher, 'When did I exactly abuse other parents, staff and yourself last Saturday?' She refused to reply. A parent who was present said I was not abusive. Had I been told, 'from the horses mouth' and I reflected and saw I had been abusive I would have immediately apologised.
That is the difference between me and the dance teacher- I will apologise when in the wrong. She never did after stating dd lost the dress when she blatantly saw me give it to dd 5 minutes before the show started.

We all have different views.

HildaOgden Sun 09-Dec-12 13:15:37

So 3 months ago at another class dd's uniform was also stolen...but the situation was handled to your satisfaction,exactly as you think it should have been?

I find it somewhat strange that you haven't mentioned that example in any of your posts about this.

And you've also contacted the cheerleading teacher again?

I don't know,I just personally get the feeling that your recent posts have been 'spun' a little to make you appear to be the final 'victor'.Just a feeling I get.

Anyway,Hope your dd is well and that the rhumatitism/arthritis (Im sorry,I can't exactly remember which one you said she has) doesn't stop her enjoyment of things.I know they both can be very painful conditions.

WitchCrafter Sun 09-Dec-12 15:33:20

Hilda, I haven't spun anything. Situations happen and I accept them and move on. My point mentioning it now is to let some posters see I am reasonable and do let things go when they've been nipped in the bud.

My contact was a text resent asking who I abused? If, indeed I did abuse anyone I would apologise to them. I like to have a clear conscience.

gettingeasier Sun 09-Dec-12 15:38:40

Really OP I cant agree that you have moved on particularly well from this situation , you sound barking to me

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