to question if I am a selfish b***h?

(152 Posts)
GnTwivslicenice Sun 02-Dec-12 12:24:58

I split up with my P four days ago. We have an 18 week old DS together. I finished the relationship for various reasons, mainly because he is quite immature and reliant. He is 31, doesn't own a house, I do. Rides about on a pushbike as he doesn't have a car, doesn't buy his own clothes, etc etc. I couldn't cope with his neediness now I am looking after my DS full time. He also had a nasty habit of calling me spiteful names, sometimes when I was holding my son. Nice!

I have been letting him come here to see his DS as he has moved into a house owned by his father that his brother rents - his brother lives a pretty wild lifestyle - gets drunk and takes cocaine regularly and has been in prison for fraud. The house is a bit of a tip.

He came here after his shift at work yesterday and he bathed DS and put him to bed. He then asked if we could talk. He asked if he could have DS tomorrow, fine I said. He then proceeded to lay on my sofa and start flicking through the channels on my telly, (I was watching Strictly Come Dancing so I wasn't best pleased!) I told him not to get too comfy, he wasn't going to worm his way in and end up staying the night.

He then asked if he could borrow MY car as he was too tired to bike home - he lives about 8 miles away - and he would bring it back the next day, that I wasn't likely to use the car as DS was in bed for the night. I said no, I put petrol in every week, tax, MOT and insure the the car and he puts nothing towards those costs. I said if he didn't want to bike home he should sacrifice a few luxuries like i do to have a car.

This did not go down well! He told me that I was being nasty, a selfish bitch and trying really hard to make things difficult for him, so forth and so forth, blah blah blah. I didn't think I was.

So just canvassing opinion really. Should i have let him use my car?

waltermittymistletoe Sun 02-Dec-12 12:27:48

<cheers OP>

So refreshing to read an OP where a waste of space can't manipulate/bully and screw over the woman (or man) whose gotten rid!

You KEEP DOING what you're doing!

SagelyEggnogging Sun 02-Dec-12 12:28:32

No! He is an adult is he not??

insertsomethingwitty Sun 02-Dec-12 12:29:39

No. If he is never forced t take responsibility for himself then he never will. If he wants the use of a car en he will have to get his own.

ImperialSantaKnickers Sun 02-Dec-12 12:29:43

Of course not!

What if you needed it overnight?

And NO-ONE touches my remote control without my EXPRESS permission grin

healstorturepeople Sun 02-Dec-12 12:30:30

No I wouldn't have lent him the car. You might need it if you needed to get something for your son. However you need to rethink your attitude towards people who don't own a house, a car etc.

Smellslikecatspee Sun 02-Dec-12 12:31:03

No.

Why should you?
He's been a shit, it's your car you pay tax for it etc. why should a nasty little shit get the benefit of your work and saving.

Not that it's anything to do with it or him but how could he predict that you wouldn't need the car overnight?

You are not a selfish bitch. You've done exactly the right thing for you and your ds.

Your xp needs to grow the fuck up!

Stay strong, you're doing amazingly!

He's a selfish pig. Is he even insured to drive your car?

HE is the selfish one!

Kalisi Sun 02-Dec-12 12:31:45

Haha what a question! No OP, you are not being a bitch for not allowing this. I take it he's not insured on your car?

Fakebook Sun 02-Dec-12 12:32:21

He sounds a lot like an ex colleague I used to work with. Same age too. Does he have another dd from a previous relationship? Does he watch a lot of films? <rubs chin>

noblegiraffe Sun 02-Dec-12 12:33:23

He's not your partner any more, he doesn't seem to have made that mental adjustment. He can't sponge off you, and in fact should be giving you money towards the support of your DS.

Pilgit Sun 02-Dec-12 12:33:48

No not being selfish. Get him taken off your insurance then there isn't even an option of him using your car!

SummerRain Sun 02-Dec-12 12:34:22

His transport issues are his problem, not yours. Of course your not being selfish to say no... What if ds got sick in the night and needed ooh or a&e? That's why you pay for a car, so that you have it when you need it... not so a useless waste of space can borrow it when he can't be fucked cycling.

DameFannyGallopsBEHINDyou Sun 02-Dec-12 12:35:27

Well done you. And think about asking him too see ds outside your home - to keep the boundaries defined. If your worried about his brother's house being unsafe you can always threaten to report the possession of coke etc.

SummerRain Sun 02-Dec-12 12:35:41

*You're

BluelightsAndSirens Sun 02-Dec-12 12:37:19

No, you did the right thing and I would not have let him stay after coming down the stairs!

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Sun 02-Dec-12 12:37:37

No. He shouldn't be acting like he's got any right to your car or your tv.

you're split up! It sounds like that's not sunk in yet!

whois Sun 02-Dec-12 12:40:26

He sounds like a total waste of space and you are not being U!

No way does he get to use your car, what a knob.

ScrambledSmegs Sun 02-Dec-12 12:42:21

No of course you're not a selfish bitch. He's a lazy, entitled twat.

Good for you! Only thing you did wrong was letting him lounge around in your house and take over your tv. I'd have shown him the door asap!

HeirExtensions Sun 02-Dec-12 12:44:02

OP I think I love you thanks

I used to give in to my ex demands for money, borrow things from the house, do stuff for him etc cos I was so used to giving in and was a bit scared to say no.

I now have a zero tolerance policy and say NO to every request, no matter how small, even if its 20p, a stamp, some milk or whatever because as soon as I give in on one tiny thing, it will immediately be followed by a request for something bigger and so on.

So no, you're definitely not a selfish bitch, or anything close to it.

butterfingerz Sun 02-Dec-12 12:47:14

You and him are no longer together right? So he doesn't get to use your car, remote control or park his arse on your sofa...

Floggingmolly Sun 02-Dec-12 12:52:08

Why did you have a chid with a man you don't seem to even like?

SirBoobAlot Sun 02-Dec-12 12:53:17

Of course not.

DixieD Sun 02-Dec-12 12:55:22

He switched off Strictly shock. If DH did that he'd be having his teeth handed to him and he is not a total waste of space. And of course you ANBU about the car. If he too tired to cycle he can fucking get a taxi. Who asks to borrow someone's car to get themselves home? Entitled much?

SugaricePlumFairy Sun 02-Dec-12 13:05:43

I got twitchy when i got to he lay on my sofa and started to flick through the channels.

Well done OP for being strong and firm! wink

Not selfish at all.

FutureNannyOgg Sun 02-Dec-12 13:07:11

Flogging - I expect she may have liked him once. Or maybe she didn't, who knows, but it's a bit late to worry about that now hmm

YANBU OP, its your house, your car, and seeing his child, in appropriate surroundings is his responsibility. Sounds like he needs to pull himself together and picking up the slack for him won't help.

GnTwivslicenice Sun 02-Dec-12 13:29:36

Thanks all for the feedback so far. I kind of thought that I wasn't BU, I think he was just trying to convince I was.

Now the more important question - should I have hung him up by his balls for switching over the T.V when I was watching Strictly!!!!!

Whocansay Sun 02-Dec-12 13:40:28

My I offer congratulations for get rid of an utter twat. wine
Good for you.
And of course, YANBU. I'm amazed you had to ask.

fedupofnamechanging Sun 02-Dec-12 13:49:01

Agree that it is lovely to read an OP where a woman isn't allowing herself to be screwed over by some lazy over entitled dick head of a man.

Calling you spiteful names means that he has no right to any kind of caring or consideration from you.

DontmindifIdo Sun 02-Dec-12 13:56:03

You need to keep pointing out he doesn't live there now, how he gets to and from your house to visit DS is his problem, and once he's finished with your DS, he leaves straight away, he doesn't have a relationship with you anymore. If you didn't have a DS together, you'd probably never see him again, you don't need to be putting up with him messing about changing your TV channel.

ll31 Sun 02-Dec-12 14:11:16

yanbu and congrats as other posters say. you are lucky tho to be in strong financial position, makes it relatively easy to be strong. congrats on baby-enjoy!!

JaquelineHyOnChristmasSpirit Sun 02-Dec-12 14:20:08

You did the right thing he has no right to borrow anything of yours especially not your car.

However, I really don't like your comments about how he is in his 30's and doesn't own his own house, or his own car. So fucking what, plenty of peole don't! Oh you do, well bully for you.

Stick to your guns and don't let him try to bully or manipulate you but whether he owns property or not has nothing to do with it.

allgoingtoshitnow Sun 02-Dec-12 14:39:37

YABU OP.

Your reasons for dumping him are weak at best, and when he cycles 8 miles to bath and bed his DS, something he has to do because you finished with him, you get all tight about loaning him the car this one time rather than have to cycle 8 miles back home in the cold dark.

Did you end up needing the car overnight? No of course you didnt.

I imagine he doesnt have a car because until 4 days ago, he was in a family that already had one and he could cycle to work.

I also don't understand how be is a deadbeat who doesn't buy his own clothes, yet comes around 'after his shift' to look after his child. He is working and earning then?

waltermittymistletoe Sun 02-Dec-12 14:51:44

Allgoing your post makes you look like a twat.

There's always one <sigh>

JaquelineHyOnChristmasSpirit Sun 02-Dec-12 14:55:10

walter unfortunately your silly name calling invalidates any point your were trying to make about allgoing's post.

It's never only one <sigh>

squeakytoy Sun 02-Dec-12 14:57:27

you werent being unreasonable to not loan him the car, but your reasons for ending the relationship sound rather questionable.. and I am sure there must be more to it than what you have posted.

was he living with you? was he working and contributing, and was he a decent partner and father even if he didnt own a house or a car (most families share a house and car when they are together)..

Whocansay Sun 02-Dec-12 14:59:44

Allgoing - how on earth do you know what her reasons for dumping him are? Whatever they are, weak or not, she is entitled to get rid if she doesn't want to be with him.

Why on earth would she lend him her car? I wouldn't lend my car to anyone. His travel arrangements are NOT her responsibility.

He comes round to look after his child. Should he not? Is the child only the OP's responsibility? It's his child too. He is NOT doing the OP a favour, he's looking after his child. One can only assume he would want to as a caring father.

I find your post very strange Allgoing. Unless of course, you are the exp in question.

waltermittymistletoe Sun 02-Dec-12 14:59:51

I very specifically didn't call names as that breaks talk guidelines but thanks for your valuable input.

I think someone who comes onto a thread posted by a new mum who has had to break up with her child's partner and berates her for not allowing him to slouch on her sofa and take her car, sounds like a twat.

waltermittymistletoe Sun 02-Dec-12 15:01:55

He is NOT doing the OP a favour, he's looking after his child

Exactly. So he doesn't deserve to be 'rewarded' by having her car.

If he wants a car he should get one.

OP doesn't have to have a 'strong' (hmm) reason for not giving him her car, anymore than she has to have a 'strong' reason for breaking up with him.

JaquelineHyOnChristmasSpirit Sun 02-Dec-12 15:07:36

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

HildaOgden Sun 02-Dec-12 15:16:24

Not selfish at all,I think it was very reasonable of you to allow him to have his access visit at your home,especially so soon after the split.

The ex could have forked out the few quid a taxi costs if his first mode of transport (bike) was no longer acceptable to him.

He's just using it as an excuse for a row....far easier for him to claim you're unreasonable for not letting him have your car than to actually face the real reasons for the split.

I'd work out a parenting plan with him as soon as possible,that does not include you having to deal with him any more than is necessary.I have a feeling you have many more of these kind of squabbles ahead of you if you don't set your boundaries clearly now.

waltermittymistletoe Sun 02-Dec-12 15:16:41

Yeah I'm thrilled thanks lol!

What exactly is your problem?

I explained why I posted what I did. I explained that I think having a go at a newly single mum to a new baby is twatish IMO.

And you think I look like a cunt because...?

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sun 02-Dec-12 15:23:03

Whatever the reasons for splitting up with her ex I think OP was nbu to not let him borrow her car to drive back to his brother's house. Maybe she feared it would be the thin end of the wedge?

Money wise is he contributing to their son's care? Bathing his DS and putting him to bed was helpful it doesn't mean she has to loan her car.

He didn't necessarily ride his bike 8 miles from work to get to her place - even if he did 8 miles would take 40-50 minutes, faster if he's a Mark Cavendish type sprinter?

JaquelineHyOnChristmasSpirit Sun 02-Dec-12 15:33:36

The OP should never lend her car to her ex and made the correct decision.

Allgoing's post was ridiculous and you were completely right to pull him/her up on it. However, the way you did it originally (by name calling) just made you look as silly as they did.

To then claim calling someone a twat wasn't name calling was even sillier hence why I then said you looked like a cunt (not because I think you looked like a cunt but because I was trying to make you realise how ridiculous it was)

I have no problem with you, just the way you originally expressed yourself.

I think we both understand each other now and so should just leave it alone (along with all the cunts and the twats) grin

CuriousMama Sun 02-Dec-12 15:39:03

If you had any doubts about getting rid he's certainly making sure you see how right you were.

He's very entitled isn't he? Knob.

lovebunny Sun 02-Dec-12 15:40:08

o p, you were 100% reasonable. exes do seem to think they can act like live-in partners. they need to be disabused.

ScrambledSmegs Sun 02-Dec-12 15:41:26

Actually what walter said isn't classed as a personal attack by MN, so she's technically correct on the not calling a rude name thing. Justine set out what is deletable and what isn't earlier this year. You are a... - personal attack. What you said makes you sound like... - not an attack.

Of course that doesn't mean you can't object wink.

waltermittymistletoe Sun 02-Dec-12 15:49:44

As smeg said it's NOT a personal attack!

Don't blame me, blame MNHQ, or, as Smeg says Justine! wink

Anyway agreed. Let's leave all the twats and cunts at the door! grin

JaquelineHyOnChristmasSpirit Sun 02-Dec-12 15:53:23

Lovely, I shall remember to insert 'like a' before every insult I throw grin

loopylou6 Sun 02-Dec-12 16:04:41

No ywbu, but I feel slightly stung that you think he's not good enough as he doesn't own a house or car, I don't own my home and I'm 30, does that make me somewhat unworthy?

Doingakatereddy Sun 02-Dec-12 16:11:58

Reading (perhaps too much) into your post, I get the impression that you're feeling like the grown up in the relationship?

It's ok not to have car / house etc but in a family dynamic, I'd agree that has to be joint decision & all other responsibility should be equal.

It's your TV, your car & your house - hold your nerve, you are doing great. Congrats on DS, 18 weeks is a scrummy age

Rudolphstolemycarrots Sun 02-Dec-12 16:24:31

you sound like the grown up! keep doing what you are doing.

waltermittymistletoe Sun 02-Dec-12 16:38:02

loopy I'm guessing but the way I read it was that he has the means to have a car but never bothered!

If he doesn't want a car: ok. If he won't get a car and then calls OP a name because he wants to use her car: not ok!

They're not in a relationship therefore he can't just use her stuff and expect her to be ok with it. He bikes everywhere so why this should have been any different is beyond me. I suspect he just wanted to exert some control and then got pissy when OP wouldn't play along.

GnTwivslicenice Sun 02-Dec-12 16:53:30

Sorry if I have come across as smug, I certainly don't think I am superior just because I have a house and a car. I know a lot of people don't own homes or cars but would love to be in a position to and some people prefer to rent and walk everywhere! however ex P has a good job and could well afford to but chooses not to as he lived in my house and drove my car, he had no need to. For what it's worth I drive a crappy R reg and live in an ex LA bungalow but I love it!!!!

Yes, I got treated like a mug, I know that now. I didn't see that until -unfortunately - we had our child together: I started mixing with other mums and they talked about how supportive, loving and helpful their partners were. I realised that my ex P, although a good dad, was not a great P. His views on how a woman should behave (traditional housewife role, which some people like but not for me, I want to go back to work) in his eyes only really emerged whilst I was pregnant.

There are a lot of reasons why we broke up, far to personal to go in to on here but I personally feel very justified in breaking up with him and am not bothered if other people think I am or not. I just wanted peoples' opinions as to whether I should have lent him my car or not!

I now actually feel really positive about the future (I thought that you were supposed to be sad when you broke up with someone but I feel excited about mine and my DS life!)

Thank you for all your kind words, I feel like I have a network of support available to me 24/7 (only joined mn today) to guide me through the challenge of raising my DS as a lone parent.

GnTwivslicenice Sun 02-Dec-12 16:55:28

Oh and please stop calling each other Twats n Cunts or I will have to get Harry Hill involved:

Is so and so a twat?

Is so and so a cunt?

There is only one way to find out...........FIGHT!!

JaquelineHyOnChristmasSpirit Sun 02-Dec-12 17:01:47

Oh GnTwiv that post made you sound like a real twatty cunt grin grin

FIGHT!!

GnTwivslicenice Sun 02-Dec-12 17:07:42

Oh stop being such a cunty twat!

waltermittymistletoe Sun 02-Dec-12 17:24:52

YABU for liking Harry Hill! wink

allgoingtoshitnow Sun 02-Dec-12 17:25:58

So to summarise.

Your partner isnt a deadbeat anymore as he actually has a good job. You just didnt like loaning your car (even though you were a family unit) and after bearing a child with him, you now view him as a sexist for his 'traditional' views.

Anything else you want to throw into the mix to get the manhaters frothing and to help feel better about the whole sorry situation?

I'm sure you had perfectly valid reasons for splitting him up from his DS, because it would be unforgivable to have done it for something frivolous and self centered. I just hope you positiive feelings for the future include your DS seeing his father regularly.

allgoing is it any business of yours why she split up with exp?

GnTwivslicenice Sun 02-Dec-12 17:36:53

Allgoing - definitely going to make sure he is a massive feature in DS life if he wants to be.

Do you need a hug? you seem really angry.

RubyGates Sun 02-Dec-12 17:39:07

To summarise,:
OP felt that ex was relying on her house and car, expected her to be a "traditional' house wife, and despite ex having a good job, he was behaving more like a dependent teenager.

When baby came along, OP realised that she didn't want to live with two "babies" and ended the relationship.

Ex came round and felt that he should be "rewarded" for interacting his own child by getting to flick through the channels and use her car.

RubyGates Sun 02-Dec-12 17:40:52

Posted too early,
These are your only two posts allgoingtoshitnow, perhaps you need to explore other people's views of this situation. AT least consider why it looks the way it does to most of the posters on this thread?

waltermittymistletoe Sun 02-Dec-12 17:44:19

"Do you need a hug?" grin

HildaOgden Sun 02-Dec-12 17:45:31

Allgoing,considering the OP facilitated an access visit at her own home when she had very recently split from the father,I think we can assume she is trying to be as reasonable regarding his involvement in the child's as possible.

What she doesn't have to even attempt to do is provide 'comfier' transport for her ex- boyfriends journey home.

He's a grown man,he had the ability to order a taxi home if he wished.Instead he chose to react in an indulgently entitled way to the OP's refusal to hand over her car to him.

Allgoing, whether they were a family unit or not, they are not one now, so the OP is perfectly reasonable to not lend this man her car!

And why do you need to get the OP to justify her reason's for leaving. You are sounding very anti women, rather than the OP sounding like a man hater.

pinkyredrose Sun 02-Dec-12 17:50:11

I think allgoin is a man. Who hates women.

GnTwivslicenice Sun 02-Dec-12 17:58:28

let alone a man allgoing, are you my ex!!

Waltermitty- I wanted to post the biscuit emoticon but am on my damned netbook which doesn't have the brackets too.

Can someone please offer allgoing a biscuit please!!!

CaliforniaSucksSnowballs Sun 02-Dec-12 18:49:20

You are not obliged to give/loan him anything and from the way he behaves I would have said no too.
He's adult and needs to pull himself toghether.
How long are you going to let him come to your home and visit Dd? What happens when you move on and the new bloke could be there?
I think it's time to make plans about where the visits will take place. If he continues to be rude to you and his place isn't a suitable visiting place for his child then maybe look into visiting centers, or have him visit Dd at his Mums or other family home. Coming into you home isn't going to work in the long run.

biscuit

waltermittymistletoe Sun 02-Dec-12 18:55:16

biscuit biscuit biscuit

There you go! grin

GnTwivslicenice Sun 02-Dec-12 19:39:02

Ooh walter 3 biscuits, 3 times as patronising, thank you!

Seems like all has disappeared now though. Probably gone to watch the episodes of Jeremy Kyle that she/he series linked so she can tut very loudly at the 'sorry situations' and make herself feel smug!!

On a serious note saw ex P today after he took DS over to his mums for the day. We agreed that this will be the solution (him taking DS over to his mums) until he gets a permanent roof over his head.

ImperialSantaKnickers Sun 02-Dec-12 19:58:25

Welcome to MN! I think you will be a valuable addition to the Nest of Vipers <leans back in black leather chair, strokes white Persian cat with diamanté collar...>

One thing, what do we call you? GnTwivslicenice has taken me some time to figure out, I thought it was something about lice being nice at first!

Might be worth going back to your registration and changing to GnTwithSliceAndIce? It's very easy to do.

And personally, I can't STAND Strictly, but I will defend unto the death your right to watch it grin

Good solution, ds and his father spending time together at his mum's. Means your ds gets granny time too?

GnTwivslicenice Sun 02-Dec-12 20:09:57

Thanks for the welcome imperial.

I like nests of vipers and I also like being nice to lice, they are all gods creatures after all!!

I prefer gin though, so will go and change my username - when I can be arsed - to reflect this.

Anyway, you can all feck off and argue amongst yourselves on AIBU bords because I am now going to ignore my 18 week old whilst I watch x-factor results (only joking, please dont report me to SS, he is safely tucked up in bed)!! God I hope Chris Baloney goes tonight!!!

waltermittymistletoe Sun 02-Dec-12 20:15:52

Oh it's a man alright!

Whocansay Sun 02-Dec-12 20:36:23

I think 'man' may be pushing it there WalterM!

Have I been frothing? Marvellous!

grin

waltermittymistletoe Sun 02-Dec-12 21:26:27

Who grin

blanksquit Sun 02-Dec-12 21:55:32

In answer to your original question - no, he needs to grow up.

OliviaMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 02-Dec-12 21:57:33

Oh look A link to our Talk guidelines

waltermittymistletoe Sun 02-Dec-12 22:13:38

Evening Olivia smile

GnTwivslicenice Sun 02-Dec-12 22:19:17

Hi Olivia, I am going to try and distract you from the naughtiness by offering a large Gin & Tonic.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sun 02-Dec-12 22:26:59

welcome to MN, Gn

looks like you are going to fit right in grin

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Mon 03-Dec-12 06:35:49

You know, you are actually allowed to split up with someone for any reason you like. Even a 'frivolous' one. You can say you no longer want to be with someone because they leave the top off the toothpaste.

Or no reason at all.

You only 'have' to be in a relationship for exactly as long as you want to be and you don't have to have a reason that is considered acceptable to others in order to leave.

you can go cos you've decided you don't want to be in a relationship.
Because they are cruel
Because you don't love them any more even though they have done nothing, that's just the way you feel
Because they are selfish and mean
Because there's an R in the month.

Any. Bloody. Reason. You. Want.

I think it is VERY wrong to try to give people the message that they can only end a relationship for just cause and that must be something Very Bad Indeed.

I Am Not Happy

Is a very good reason.

cuillereasoupe Mon 03-Dec-12 08:54:39

OK I'll bite. Really? it's fine to split up a parent/daughter relationship for any reason at all? hmm

cuillereasoupe Mon 03-Dec-12 08:55:03

^parent/child obviously

MadCap Mon 03-Dec-12 09:02:59

She's not splitting up a parent/child relationship though. As far as we can see, she is being more than reasonable with regards to contact. Of course, you are allowed to leave an adult relationship for whatever reason you wish

allgoingtoshitnow Mon 03-Dec-12 09:08:18

Its a shit reason when there are kids involved.

ClairesTravellingCircus Mon 03-Dec-12 09:09:10

What HECThe.. Said ^^

ClairesTravellingCircus Mon 03-Dec-12 09:13:01

And Madcap

Sometimes coming on Mumsnet feels like time travel...

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Mon 03-Dec-12 09:13:20

How is it splitting up a parent child relationship?

You leave the adult, not the child.

If people use that as a reason to not be in their child's life, or if the parent tries to limit the other parent's relationship with the child - that's a different thing altogether.

But you don't HAVE to stay with someone you don't want to be with. It really is as simple as that.

allgoingtoshitnow Mon 03-Dec-12 09:13:34

To a time when there were standards?

ClairesTravellingCircus Mon 03-Dec-12 09:14:14

To a time when women had no choices

shewhowines Mon 03-Dec-12 09:19:11

YANBU and are perfectly in your rights to establish strong boundaries early on in the relationship.

HOWEVER

he is going to be in your DS's life for a very long time hopefully. Some give and take from both of you might benefit your son in the long run. It is important for your son to have him in his life as much as possible. If by using the car (very occasionally) DS gets to see more of him then that wouldn't be such a bad thing. You may need exP to be flexible over when he has him to help you out sometimes. The better relationship you have with exP will help you both to do the best for DS.

BUT

only you know if this would be the thin end of the wedge. If exP would then expect/push for more/be unappreciative then start as you mean to go on now and well done you, for being assertive.

Helping each other out and being flexible must work both ways.

MadCap Mon 03-Dec-12 09:20:23

Yy Claire

cuillereasoupe Mon 03-Dec-12 09:21:11

If one parent is no longer in the home, then I would think it stands to reason that that has an impact on their relationship with the child. I can see that this is a dangerously reactionary view though hmm

IMO the idea that you need a strong reason to leave if you have kids translates as the woman being expected to do all the compromising. Which is why I believe there are so manu smug entitled blokes out there.

I have seen very good examples of people being able to co-parent effectively but separately, where the children have good relationships with both parents.

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Mon 03-Dec-12 09:28:50

No need for the humpty face. We are allowed to have different views without getting huffy about it. We disagree. <shrug>

Yes, it may affect the child.

They may be upset that they see less of their parent.
They may not see less or much less of their parent - assuming the parent works full time and didn't spend all day every day with the child and after the split sees them on a weeknight and at the weekend
They may feel happier that they aren't living in a war zone
They may wish the parents were still under the same roof even though the atmosphere was terrible and they weren't happy.

But you still, imo, don't have to stay in a relationship with someone if you don't want to.

You can work together to make the transition as ok for the child as you can, making sure they spend time with the other parent a LOT and making sure that they feel loved by both parents.

but you don't have to imo condemn yourself to a miserable existence to ensure that your children grow up with two adults under the same roof.

MadCap Mon 03-Dec-12 09:29:03

You said splitting up the relationship. It might change, but there's nothing to say the exp can't have a good, meaningful relationship.

MadCap Mon 03-Dec-12 09:31:04

Hectate is much faster at typing than me. grin

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Mon 03-Dec-12 09:33:05

Fastest fingers in the west, that's me grin

<blows fingertips>

allgoingtoshitnow Mon 03-Dec-12 09:38:51

"It might change, but there's nothing to say the exp can't have a good, meaningful relationship. "

If thats the case, and it has little bearing on the relationship, then perhaps she'd consider letting him be the primary carer?

What about it OP? Let your ExP have his DS, and you will be free to concentrate on yourself and your own happiness?

FryOneFatChristmasTurkey Mon 03-Dec-12 09:43:27

allgoing I read your post as suggesting that if the OP wants happiness she should sacrifice care of her child. Why? It is possible for her to be happy AND care for her son. She just does not want to be in a relationship with the father of the child.

tryingtoleave Mon 03-Dec-12 09:45:33

I agree with allgoing and I'm not a man.

The op's partner sounds like a decent man and father. The issues about him wanting her to be a housewife sounds like something that can be talked out - and the op doesn't sound like she is going to be bullied into anything. Making a father leave the home of his baby is obviously going to have a detrimental affect on their relationship. I imagine most parents would be devastated in a similar situation.

Strawhatpirate Mon 03-Dec-12 09:46:40

Allgoing are you implying op would be happier without her son?

tryingtoleave Mon 03-Dec-12 09:46:54

I think what allgoing means is how many mothers, how many posters on this thread, would think their relationship with their children could continue unimpeded if they weren't living with them?

ClairesTravellingCircus Mon 03-Dec-12 10:01:57

A decent man doesn't call his partner spiteful names in my book.

tryingtoleave Mon 03-Dec-12 10:06:13

It sounds like (is that right?) she is being fairly selfish. What kind of name would you call someone who tried to chuck you out of your dc's home, Claire?

ClairesTravellingCircus Mon 03-Dec-12 10:07:01

The name calling happened before they split up, read the OP

DixieD Mon 03-Dec-12 10:31:50

Are people actually reading the OP? Its there in black and white her reasons for splitting up with him.
I finished the relationship for various reasons
* he is quite immature and reliant*
I couldn't cope with his neediness now I am looking after my DS
had a nasty habit of calling me spiteful names, sometimes when I was holding my son

These all seem like very valid reasons for ending a relationship to me. Or because she has given birth she is supposed to put up with having to baby a grown man while been subjected to verbal abuse?

She is perfectly within her rights to end the relationship, and wtf is this attitude that he is some sort of wonder father becuase he comes over and bathes his OWN child? So he fucking should fgs. He doesnt deserve a medal for doing what a parent should be doing. It doesnt entitle him to take over the television or have the OPs car.

Kalisi Mon 03-Dec-12 10:49:10

Why does anyone need a reason? If you are in a relationship and you are unhappy with your partner you are allowed to leave it! Yes ofcourse throwing children into the equation will make the decision more difficult but ultimately relationships should make life better and if you no longer enjoy it then you shouldn't have to answer to anyone. And yes, that goes for both men and women.

Queenmarigold Mon 03-Dec-12 10:51:40

Nope! Well done you for sticking up for yourself and laying down the rules. You sound like a brilliant mother!

allgoingtoshitnow Mon 03-Dec-12 10:55:17

I wonder if people would be so cavalier about the decision if they didn't automatically assume they would end up the primary carers.

We are a nation of selfish cunts it seems.

Whocansay Mon 03-Dec-12 11:04:20

If one parent is unhappy in the relationship, for whatever reason, surely it is better for the child if the parents split up? I grew up in an environment that was akin to warfare, because my parents believed in 'staying together for the children'. Without going into detail, I can assure you that it wasn't much fun. Just because the parents no longer love each other does not mean they do not love the child and are incapable of looking after the child.

And given that the exp in the scenario can barely look after himself, I would imagine he would run for the hills if asked to be the primary carer for the child.

Allgoing, you sound very bitter. I can only imagine you have had to deal with your own issues, but you're coming across as a misogynist. You seem to be implying that the OP is selfish for splitting up from her exp and putting her own happiness before that of her child. Won't ultimately ALL of them be happier if the parents split rather than stay in an unhappy relationship?

tryingtoleave Mon 03-Dec-12 11:18:29

I think once children are involved then, yes, you need a pretty good reason to leave.

How would all you posters feel if your partner could kick you out of the house where your children lived, just because he was unhappy in a relationship with you? Honestly?

Kalisi Mon 03-Dec-12 11:20:33

Ofcourse they would allgoing otherwise men would never leave women would they? ( working on the assumption that women tend to be primary care givers I do know that's not always the case before you jump on that)
Ending a relationship with children is never going to be a cavalier decision. If you are primary care giver you will be accused of 'taking the children away' and if you're not, you will be accused of 'abandoning your family' Only by people like you ofcourse hmm

DixieD Mon 03-Dec-12 11:24:00

tryingtoleave Does neediness, dependence, over reliance, having to baby him and verbal abuse not constitute a good enough reason? And if not what does?
The OPs DP has access to his child. OP is not obliged to have him live under her roof just because she gave birth to his baby.

tryingtoleave Mon 03-Dec-12 11:29:41

I'm not sure - it would depend on the extent and what has been done to deal with it. What really bugs me is that pps are saying that it doesn't matter if the reason is good. Do you think a partner should be able to take your children away, because he is not happy with you Dixie? Would you be happy with occasional access, and think it was no different to living with your child?

allgoingtoshitnow Mon 03-Dec-12 11:32:20

"neediness, dependence, over reliance,"

Do these traits now fall under abuse? I certainly hope not because there are a lot of male breadwinners out there who might voice similar complaints about their dependents.

I wonder if they will get to keep the kids?

tryingtoleave Mon 03-Dec-12 11:32:53

Again, I think allgoing is right. Here there would be a presumption of shared care. I would think very carefully about leaving dh, knowing it would mean leaving my dcs for half the week too.

Kalisi Mon 03-Dec-12 11:33:59

Leaving a relationship does not automatically equate to 'taking a child away' That is a completely seperate issue to two grown adults ending a partnership.

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Mon 03-Dec-12 11:36:36

What about the "He also had a nasty habit of calling me spiteful names, sometimes when I was holding my son. "

I notice that you quoted "Does neediness, dependence, over reliance, having to baby him and verbal abuse"

as "neediness, dependence, over reliance," and addressed those.

But not the bit about verbal abuse.

Does being in someone's face and namecalling them constitute an abuse of them?

And when put together with not pulling their weight build up a picture of someone who is not a great person?

tryingtoleave Mon 03-Dec-12 11:37:00

In this situation the mother is taking the baby away. It will be hard for a father to get custody of a baby and will continue to be hard in the future because he won't have a chance to establish a good relationship and a change later will disrupt the status quo.

Is the op planning to give the father shared care? Equal access to the child? It sounds like he would be keen.

tryingtoleave Mon 03-Dec-12 11:39:06

If this was a thread about two adults ending a partnership I wouldnt have bothered to post. But I see a thread about one parent kicking another parent, unilaterally, out of their child's home. And I find that very upsetting.

allgoingtoshitnow Mon 03-Dec-12 11:39:25

"Leaving a relationship does not automatically equate to 'taking a child away' "

There are many exPs out there who beg to differ.

LtXmasEve Mon 03-Dec-12 11:39:42

OP hasn't said otherwise - in fact OP has made it very clear that there were a number of reasons she and her ex partner split-up, but they are personal.

She only wanted to know whether she was being unreasonable in not loaning him her car.

OP, no, you were NOT unreasoable to not loan your ex your car.

Kalisi Mon 03-Dec-12 11:41:51

There is absolutely no reason why shared care should not be an option. The OP had issue with him using her car not seeing their child. Or are children just assets now?

tryingtoleave Mon 03-Dec-12 11:43:12

I think op was selfish about the car. It will take her ex more than four days to get set up with a new life that will make it easier for him to see his dc.

allgoingtoshitnow Mon 03-Dec-12 11:43:45

I left that bit out Hect, because its so pathetic an excuse that I'm sure the OP was embarrassed writing it. It certainly seems tacked on the end and not her primary reason for breaking the family up. If there was any hint of DV it would be number 1 on her list.

I suspect that had her ExP driven around in a Porsche, and invited her to come live with him in his 4 bedroom place, then they would still be together,

DixieD Mon 03-Dec-12 11:45:12

I never said neediness was abuse? Where on earth did you get that? I listed the traits that the OP found problematic to the relationship and had verbal abuse at the end of the sentence. the word abuse related just to the verbal abuse not the other parts.
Neediness is not an attactive quality in any person and grown ups whether male or female should pull their weight in a realtionship. OP found she couldnt cope with his dependence when also having a baby which implies to me that he was certainly not pulling his weight.

Kalisi Mon 03-Dec-12 11:46:01

Are you one of them allgoing because you appear to be projecting a personal situation on to this one and it doesn't quite seem to match what is going on here?

tryingtoleave Mon 03-Dec-12 11:46:01

What have I said that suggested children are assets?

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Mon 03-Dec-12 11:47:46

We'll have to agree to disagree on that too then. I took it at face value. It's impossible for me to know if it's true or lies or if bits of it are true and bits made up, so I just accept what the OP says as being accurate until or unless there is something to prove otherwise. And calling someone spiteful names - as a habit - which I assume to mean regularly - is in my view reason enough to say I don't want to be with you.

tryingtoleave Mon 03-Dec-12 11:49:25

I think there are a lot of posters projecting their personal experiences onto this thread.

ClairesTravellingCircus Mon 03-Dec-12 11:51:03

tryingtoleave what if the baby was ill during the night?
He could have got a cab too.

She was within her rights to say no and to be called 'selfish bitch' for that just shows what type of man he is.

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Mon 03-Dec-12 11:52:07

If you are including me in that - I've been married 14 years and counting to a man who's never so much as raised his voice to me. Got no personal experience to project.

ClairesTravellingCircus Mon 03-Dec-12 11:54:05

Same here, 25 years with tha same man and nope, have never been called a bitch by him (or selfish) smile

EldritchCleavage Mon 03-Dec-12 11:56:18

The OP did point out that the ex-P is living at Party Central with his drink and drug-taking, convicted fraudster brother. So not much chance for shared care at the moment.

Since ex-P has a good job, it is in his power to sort himself out with a suitable place to live where the baby can stay with him. Until then, ex-P is seeing his child at his mother's.

OP also said there were reasons for the break-up too personal to go into here.

So whatever else people want to say about the OP, it doesn't sound as though she ended the relationship on a whim and it certainly doesn't sound as though she is putting obstacles in the way of the ex-P caring for his son.

LtXmasEve Mon 03-Dec-12 11:57:27

Actually allgoing, if you knew anything about DV, you would know that many women do not actually think verbal abuse is DV - which it IS - So the OP is unlikely to have thought of it that way. DV is hardly pathetic... that one statement makes you sound rather pathetic yourself.

tryingtoleave, you keep saying "Child's home". That is a very emotional way to say it. Which of course is why you are using that terminology, rather than saying the OPs home - which it actually is.

The home, the bungalow, that the OP and her child are living in is the OP's home. It is not now, nor has it ever belonged to the OPs Ex Partner.

The OP is well within her rights to have anyone she wants in her home, and kick anyone out that she doesn't want there.

Same with her car. Same with her TV.

If her ex partner wants these things then he should go out and get them. Like we all should.

Shared care has not been dismissed by the OP, she does raise concerns about where the ex partner is currently living, but that has been resolved and the ex partner will be taking their child to his mothers home from now on.

It's not sad that she wouldn't lend her car to her ex partner. If he doesn't have a car himself he is unlikely to have car insurance, which would make it illegal for him to drive it, rather than sad.

allgoingtoshitnow Mon 03-Dec-12 12:16:42

I trust you are as strident in your views protecting mens assets when the roles are reversed and they are the family breadwinners Xmas.

Persistent verbal abuse may be DV but most rational people can see the difference between that an a bit of angry name calling (which no doubt flew from both sides). If it were a big issue for the OP she'd have made more of it.

The fact is, shes decided hes not good enough, after bearing a child by him, and he gets no further choice in the matter other than to put up with her conditions of access to his DS. Its a crying shame and will probably ruin a good man.

LtXmasEve Mon 03-Dec-12 12:25:38

which no doubt flew from both sides Unknown. You are reading things into the OP that aren't there.

Persistent verbal abuse may be DV IS DV, no may be about it.

shes decided hes not good enough, after bearing a child by him and? She is entitled to have a relationship with whoever she wants, as is he.

he gets no further choice in the matter other than to put up with her conditions of access to his DS Unknown. You are reading things into the OP that aren't there. What conditions of access? She hasn't stopped him seeing his child, she stopped him using her car.

Its a crying shame and will probably ruin a good man Good men don't abuse their partners in front of their children. Good men don't call their ex partners a 'selfish bitch'. Good men don't expect their ex partners to break the law and allow uninsured drivers to drive their cars.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 03-Dec-12 12:28:17

FFS. So the OP's ex here is powerless to make choices in his own life that will mean he has a decent relationship with his own child? Powerless to bite his tongue rather than verbally abuse the mother of his child? Powerless to phone a taxi rather than expect to use the OP's car - not the 'family car' - because he's too knackered to use a bike he chose to buy as his means of transport? A man in his 30s, with a good job/income, has no options of renting a home that would be suitable for him to have the child? He's powerless to do anything that means he has some control/input into the sort of parent he wants to be? It's all about the power and control the OP has, and this man, the baby's father, has absolutely no input at all in the choices/decisions/actions available to him, simply because the OP decided she no longer wished to be in a relationship with him?

<rolls eyes>

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Mon 03-Dec-12 12:28:21

Lots of projection happening on this thread from one poster alone.

nancerama Mon 03-Dec-12 12:45:21

All I know is raising a baby is bloody hard work, and I'm not sure I would have got this far without the support of my DH.

If OP is finding it easier without the baby's father, I think it's safe to assume he really was rather a waste of space.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 03-Dec-12 12:55:24

If it were a big issue for the OP she'd have made more of it.

And exactly how could she have made more of the verbal abuse? What are you suggesting she should have done, other than actually what she has done in ending the relationship? Do you expect more than simply ending a relationship with someone who verbally abuses you, amongst other things? Unless she's 'made more' of the verbal abuse, that isn't in itself enough to warrant the ending of a relationship?

hmm

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Mon 03-Dec-12 13:04:15

I think the suggestion is that it should have been listed first and then it would have been seen as genuine and because it was not listed first, it must therefore not be true.

I may be wrong, but that is the only interpretation I can think of.

I disagree with that, I don't think people necessarily rank things that way.

ClairesTravellingCircus Mon 03-Dec-12 13:05:40

Verbal abuse aside, are people seriuosly suggesting that she should stay with him even if she doesn't want to anymore?

And would you accept to stay with someone that doesn't want have a relationship with you just for the children?

Can you not see such a setup is going to end badly, with lots of resentment and hard feelings and possibly hatred on both sides, and that any children will eventually suffer from it anyway?

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 03-Dec-12 13:14:30

Anything else you want to throw into the mix to get the manhaters frothing and to help feel better about the whole sorry situation?

Persistent verbal abuse may be DV but most rational people can see the difference between that an a bit of angry name calling (which no doubt flew from both sides). If it were a big issue for the OP she'd have made more of it.

Either OP tells her story to suit herself (it being her thread and all) or she tells it like it is and we all jump in and elaborate.

Less of an AIBU? regarding the original point of contention, and more of a let's-read-this-to-suit-our-own-agendas.

EldritchCleavage Mon 03-Dec-12 14:56:38

Ex-P is not powerless here. There is no reason for anyone to suppose he is being oppressed by the OP.

GnTwivslicenice Mon 03-Dec-12 20:14:09

allgoing really seems to be plugging his own agenda here. He obviously has issues that we don't know about. I think his attitude is a bit 'not another fucking lone parent." Perhaps I should have stayed with him, I mean clearly it is better for a child to grow up around parents that are in a dysfunctional relationship that they will grow up seeing as 'normal'. But what the hell, I went and put my own selfish needs first. My ex P is right: I AM such a selfish bitch!!!

The only thing that I wanted an opinion on was whether or not I was selfish for not loaning him the car and the majority of people were rational and reasonable in their opinions! I knew in my heart that I was right not to lend it to him but I have had 7 years of being blamed for everything and believed it. Now I have a DS I see things differently - that fog has started lifting and I am beginning to see things clearly.

Little update on his contact - Ex P saw DS all day Friday. Put him to bed on Saturday. Had him all day at his Mums yesterday. Is taking him to his swimming lesson that I would normally take him to tomorrow morning (which I am picking him up and taking him to). Having him all day Wednesday. Saturday he is picking him up and taking him to his mums, to have overnight and then all day Sunday.

Just a little something to get all foaming at the mouth and ready to waz over the keyboard: I recently discovered that ex P had ran up £45,000 (yes you did read that correctly) in gambling debts at my address, (he works in that industry and believe me I have seen people blow more in a shorter space of time!) He had done it to "cope with the stress!" I developed post natal anxiety after the birth of DS and this was very hard for him to cope with, poor love!!! Guess what he told the bank that the loans were for. Home improvements and a new fucking car!!! I said that I would be willing to forgive him for it if he agreed to go to couples counselling, he said couples counselling is stoopid!

pinkyredrose Mon 03-Dec-12 20:57:14

OP you are so well rid. Your ex sounds like an immature idiot.

RubyGates Tue 04-Dec-12 07:45:36

You are indeed, well rid of him.
It's good that he wants to spend time with DS and he does sound like he's doing that right.

I'm still curious as to whether he would have been insured if you'd lent him the car, simply because if he knew he wasn't, why would he even have asked?

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