To want to run away and never see them again

(378 Posts)
SilverBaubles33 Wed 28-Nov-12 15:21:23

Briefly, the Alpha mums invited me for coffee and a get to know you after drop off today - there are a few of us new mums this term. The main Alpha has been really friendly, but is constantly putting herself down and comparing herself to me - I used to have a quite high-powered job, she's a bit tubby, my DDs are on a scholarship etc, and making unfavourable comments. I don't know why she needs to do it as on the face of things she's really popular, has a gorgeous house, lovely dcs, kind husband, she's thoughtful and generous etc.

Anyway, we all turned up for coffee and one of the other mums is from Holland where I used to live, so we started chatting in Dutch. I went to find the loo and Alpha was in the kitchen crying with about four friends, saying that I had ruined her coffee morning, I was an effing bitch, she wished she's never invited me etc.

They saw me in the doorway and Alpha said sorry, not having a great week, and the friends basically asked me to leave.

I asked, is it cos I spoke Dutch, sort of laughing because I thought it must be a joke or something and they said, she can't really deal with you, she feels you're always competing with her etc etc.

I am beyond embarrassed about the whole thing. I just went red and left like they asked me to. My husband said I should laugh it off but I rally don't want to see any of them again and we've got school stuff coming up in the next few weeks, I feel really sick and I've been worrying about it all day.

Should I call her? pretend it didn't happen? Speak to one of her friends? I've never come across this sort of thing before, am I BU or is she and how should I react?

ShamyFarrahCooper Wed 28-Nov-12 15:26:41

she's a bit tubby

well that's nice.

BuntyPenfold Wed 28-Nov-12 15:31:10

I would think she's a bit dotty, except her friends all seemed to take her seriously.
I've never experienced this level of neediness, but clearly you are seen as a threat, as a high-flier with talented children hmm

I would try to speak to whichever of her friends seems the least crazy, saying you have no idea etc. and only wanted to get to know a few people. Don't forget several of them may read these boards though.

BitOfACyclePath Wed 28-Nov-12 15:31:43

I think she was saying what the Alpha Mum has been saying about other people.

AThingInYourLife Wed 28-Nov-12 15:35:21

Well you do compete with her. Your first paragraph is just sneering at her and saying how great you are.

And it is very rude to start speaking in another language like that during a social event.

She was nice and tried to include you, but you think you're too good for the other mothers, so now you will have to find other "high powered" friends.

Hint: lots of school mothers have, or used to have, high-powered careers.

BuntyPenfold Wed 28-Nov-12 15:37:23

What about the other person speaking Dutch - was she asked to leave too?

BeerTricksPott3r Wed 28-Nov-12 15:37:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I don't know about the rest of it but it was a bit rude to start speaking in a different language that only you and one other person understood, why did you do that, because you could, it could easily be seen as showing off, the Dutch person was just as rude.

SugaricePlumFairy Wed 28-Nov-12 15:38:39

The speaking in Dutch could be interpreted as being rude and seeing as Alpha sounds highly strung and emotional, well she went into Drama Queenmode.

I wouldn't make an effort to bring it up again, just smile when you see her and be friendly then run! She sounds like a nightmare.

FeckOffCup Wed 28-Nov-12 15:38:55

I would probably try to have a chat with the Alpha mum face to face and I would probably start by apologising, although she was way out of order to call you an effing bitch and she totally overreacted I think you were a bit rude to talk in Dutch to another mum while there, maybe she thought you had switched languages to slag her off or something? I wouldn't go through one of her friends as it will probably turn into chinese whispers and make things worse.

monsterchild Wed 28-Nov-12 15:39:01

I would avoid her and never look back. Be polite, of course, but I wouldn't initiate anything. at school stuff just grin and bear it. I'm guessing she'll have another target soon enough.

Having a cry at her own coffee time because you're a bitch for being there? Sounds attention seeking and has her friends conned. She also has poor social skills.

You have nothing to be embarrassed about, this is her problem. Be glad it happened so quickly and you've been shown her true colors. I'm guessing other not-Alpha mums will be able to tell you similar fates of other newcomers.

SilverBaubles33 Wed 28-Nov-12 15:40:09

Bunty, thanks I'll try the most approachable one this evening.

Shamy, sorry that wasn't meant to sound judhemental, it's what dyes always saying about herself constantly.

If any of them do read the boards perhaps they can tell me if I unintentionally offended her with something else or if I should apologise or what.

It's my first coffee morning since pre-school, o took flowers and was really excited about meeting some new people and now I'm feeling like I did a terrible thing.

I hope my sense of perspective kicks in soon...

ClippedPhoenix Wed 28-Nov-12 15:42:10

Just give them all a wide berth OP. Don't know why you mentioned tubby though in your opening post?

pictish Wed 28-Nov-12 15:42:27

Um...ok...I think it was a massive overreaction on her part.
But...I also think you have a competitive streak a mile wide, going on your OP.
And really...speaking Dutch was a bit rude and showy offy in the context of an intimate coffee morning.
I don't know...I wasn't there, but maybe there's some truth in how she perceives you?

Even so...I wouldn't have cried about it. That's rather feeble imo.

Janeatthebarre Wed 28-Nov-12 15:50:40

The whole thing sounds bizaare.
Alpha mums??? What does that mean?

BuntyPenfold Wed 28-Nov-12 15:51:07

Maybe have your own coffee morning and make some different friends.
She is deeply insecure if a few sentences in Dutch makes her cry tbh.

My friend from Delhi often lapses into another language unknown to me - boohoo.

HecatePropylaea Wed 28-Nov-12 15:53:54

So you and the other woman started speaking to one another in a language the others couldn't understand?

While I think bursting into tears and slagging you off was a total overreaction, you must know that what you did was very rude indeed.

You don't start chatting to someone in a language other people don't speak when you're together as a group. That's really rude.

It's happened to me and it isn't nice.

Unless you can all speak dutch, in which case never mind.

Janeatthebarre Wed 28-Nov-12 15:54:01

TBH you all sound like a bunch of high school kids. Alpha mums, crying because someone's 'ruined' your coffee morning; friends ganging up in the kitchen. Is there more that you're not telling us?

RobotLover68 Wed 28-Nov-12 15:56:22

I think she was saying what the Alpha Mum has been saying about other people

I read it that this is what Alpha Mum says about herself

I may be wrong

pictish Wed 28-Nov-12 15:56:49

Like how this took place in the housey corner at nursery, and they're all four? grin

BuntyPenfold Wed 28-Nov-12 15:57:02

I thought the same as Robot

BuntyPenfold Wed 28-Nov-12 15:57:56

Yes I know pictish, and it wasn't fair and they're telling Miss.

EmmaBemma Wed 28-Nov-12 15:59:53

I do think it's a bit rude that you and the other mum chatted in Dutch, but really Alpha sounds like a nutter. I've got the hump with people before, often about obscure reasons I don't properly even understand myself, but I wouldn't be crying in the kitchen while they're in the loo! That's just... wow. I'd wait at least till everyone had left, fester on my own for a while, and then get over it.

goralka Wed 28-Nov-12 16:02:21

she sounds mad and you sound rude,(speaking in Dutch)

AThingInYourLife Wed 28-Nov-12 16:02:51

I know, imagine crying, or being insecure!

What a fucking bitch she must be.

As well as fat.

bradywasmyfavouriteking Wed 28-Nov-12 16:02:53

Tbh I think are down plating your role in this. especially since they all seem to agree. Your OP smacks of 'i am amazing in comparison'. Perhaps you don't realise you come across that way. Could she be putting herself down as she feels you do it so she beats you to it? I know a few people who have self esteem issues that do that.

You all seem very childish and, yes, holding a conversation in another language (therefore excluding others) is rude. But since it seems the other one wasn't asked to leave I would imagine there isore to it.

EldritchCleavage Wed 28-Nov-12 16:05:05

Well you do compete with her. Your first paragraph is just sneering at her and saying how great you are.

I read the first paragraph as paraphrasing what the Alpha mum was saying herself.

I don't think the speaking Dutch was especially polite, but not all that bad either. It sounds to me as though Alpha is rather dramatic, and blaming you for the way she feels about herself anyway. Lots of projection there. Seriously give her a wide berth.

AThingInYourLife Wed 28-Nov-12 16:06:57

Presumably she was asked to leave because when she came upon her hostess in tears in her kitchen, she laughed at her.

Janeatthebarre Wed 28-Nov-12 16:07:45

I agree brady. It feels like we're getting edited highlights of what exactly has been happening between OP and Alpha mum.

shockers Wed 28-Nov-12 16:07:46

By speaking Dutch with one person, you were basically excluding the rest of the group from your conversation... at a coffee morning in one of that group's home.

That is really rude.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 16:07:53

Total overreaction on alpha mum's part.

How long were you speaking in Dutch for, and how many other people were present at the time?

If there were other people present, were they talking among themselves?

The Dutch angle needs to be explained more fully to get a proper feel for whether it was really rude or not.

AThingInYourLife Wed 28-Nov-12 16:10:13

The speaking Dutch was obnoxious showing off.

If I was trying to integrate some new faces into a social group and invited them to a small social event I was hosting, and two of them started chatting away in a language nobody else understood, I would think they were dicks.

I wouldn't cry about it. But I wouldn't seek their company any more.

BuntyPenfold Wed 28-Nov-12 16:10:40

Speaking a language unknown to part of a group - rather rude.
Crying about it to friends in the kitchen - completely loony.

Make some other friends.

babydude Wed 28-Nov-12 16:11:10

Interesting reaction there AThingInYourLife.

OP, Yes you were a bit rude speaking in another language, but she did overreact as if thats spoiled the whole morning she sounds like a bit of a drama llama.

Easiest way to deal with this is to speak to her and apologise for speaking in Dutch, that you hadn't meant to offend her. If she doesn't accept then steer well clear. To be honest, I'd steer clear anyway.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 16:16:10

I dunno about the Dutch issue. I speak some Swedish, and met some Swedes at a party a few years back, and we started talking in (very basic in my case) Swedish in front of friends. It wasn't showing of because:

a: my chums pointed and laughed and started doing the hurdy gurdy Swedish chef routine....
b: they were my chums and everyone was already comfortable - no hidden agenda
c: I was so chuffed to get a chance to speak a bit of Swedish, and they were so chuffed to laugh at meet a British person that they could abuse and force to say seven help out
d: no one was left out (IYSWIM) it was fun for participants and onlookers

If it was a fleeting convo, and you weren't in the middle of the other group, I don't think it was that bad.

Pinkforever Wed 28-Nov-12 16:18:02

I honestly cant believe the op is'nt getting more of a flaming than this-phrases such as "alpha mums","tubby" "high powered job" are not painting the op in the best og lights.

YABU op-and rude and nasty to boot....

Janeatthebarre Wed 28-Nov-12 16:20:15

I think the OP meant that the 'alpha mum' was always putting herself down thinking she's a bit tubby, comparing herself to OP because OPhad high powered job etc.

But the post really doesn't make much sense as it stands. I would like to hear the version of someone else who was at the coffee morning.

bradywasmyfavouriteking Wed 28-Nov-12 16:21:27

Iused to have a quite high-powered job, she's a bit tubby, my DDs are on a scholarship etc, and making unfavourable comments

Which bit of this ^^ is comparing. Comparing would be 'she is tubby, I am a size 4' or 'i user to have a high powered job, she didn't'.

The op reads like the reasons you think you are better than her.

ShamyFarrahCooper Wed 28-Nov-12 16:21:34

OP can you clarify who is saying what? You flip between she/I/my and I can't tell if she is saying those things about you, you are saying them about her or if it's a combination of the two?

Also why did you label her alpha mum? Do you think you were a bit pre-disposed to dislike her a little or is the label due to what happened?
The dutch thing probably wasn't the smartest of things to do.

If you are intent on fixing things, you would do better to do it whilst she is by herself than in a group of people.
Maybe she is having a bad day, just because someone looks like their life is amazing, doesn't mean it is. You don't know the ins and outs but her closer friends might and you could have been caught in the crossfire.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 16:21:41

I think the OP was nervous to begin with, and grabbed onto any common ground that she could find with anyone.

bradywasmyfavouriteking Wed 28-Nov-12 16:22:59

Oh and I bet you wouldn't have bothered going for coffee had it been the 'beta' mums that had asked you.

Would 'beta' be the correct term. I am not used to insulting and categorising people.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 16:28:24

I think that the OP is quite keen to make some friends regardless of their status.
Unfortunately alpha parents are a fact of school life - but they only get to you as far as you let them.

Noren Wed 28-Nov-12 16:28:44

She sounds like one of those women that slags herself off but you are expected to reassure her about how amazing she is (i.e. "fishing" for compliments). Have you been doing that or might that be an additional reason for her taking offence?

It doesn't sounds a very nice group of people. Do you actually want to bother with all that drama?

I think it was a bit rude to speak in Dutch, but depends on context.

Janeatthebarre Wed 28-Nov-12 16:29:52

What makes a group of mums the 'alpha mums'? Genuine question.

EmmaBemma Wed 28-Nov-12 16:30:18

"I know, imagine crying, or being insecure!

What a fucking bitch she must be.

As well as fat.!"

Steady on! No-one's saying she's a bitch. And what's being fat got to do with anything? But honestly, everyone and his dog's insecure these days. I'm rather insecure myself. I'd still never slag someone off while they're still in my house, and although I'm pretty wet it would take more than a two guests talking in a language I didn't understand to make me cry. If she had that much of a problem with Silver, why on earth did she invite her over in the first place? She sounds like an attention-seeking nightmare, and I think it's a big shame Silver has been left feeling so embarassed and awkward.

Um.. you were nervous and she's admitted she's having a bad week. I reckon it's worth another shot.
Take a deep breath, phone up and say you're really sorry you were just so excited to get a chance to speak Dutch again, and you didn't mean to make anyone feel awkward you were just a bit nervous because everyone seems to be close friends and you'd love to get to know them a bit more.
She can either go 'God yes, sorry was having a bit of a funny day, don't worry about it' or 'You and your clogs will never darken my door again'. grin

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 16:33:29

Ooh, blimey! Big question there, Jane.
I can see ours now.....but it's hard to describe. I think they tend to elect themselves, really, and other people take them at their own estimation. our place, it's the wealthy ones, big houses, popular children because the parents do lots of networking for them. Several expensive holidays a year, expensive clothes, well-connected.
They're not necessarily unpleasant people, far from it, in fact, but they can be quite intimidating if you're new to an area or to the school/nursery thing.

I'm with those saying that referring to people as alpha mums is horrible and sneering. She's just a mum, who tried to include you, and you are nasty about her behind her back and speak in a language she can't understand in her house. She probably thought you were talking and laughing about her or something.

How about you ring her up and say sorry for upsetting her and invite her round to yours for a coffee or something so you can get to know each other properly. She's probably very nice, but a little insecure. Has it occurred to you that your high powered job and scholarship kids make you seem a bit perfect and alpha yourself?

bradywasmyfavouriteking Wed 28-Nov-12 16:35:48

I'd still never slag someone off while they're still in my house

Lets forget the fact that she instantly apologised and told the OP she was having a hard week. The op laughed.

Possibly could be that she is having an awful week. Somebody on the family ill, Dh asked a divorce sort of shit week.

Janeatthebarre Wed 28-Nov-12 16:36:01

Thanks Minou.

It all sounds a bit cheerleadery and Beverley Hills 90210 for me.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 16:36:44

The alpha thing is a kind of shorthand, really.
I'm trying to think how they'd be if they were schoolkids - they'd be the popular, good-looking, sporty ones who were also academic.

bradywasmyfavouriteking Wed 28-Nov-12 16:38:23

jane its very cheerleadery.

We don't have any at dds school.

StormyWeek Wed 28-Nov-12 16:38:31

Oh Silver
I posted such a similar post about 2 months ago, when I to met an incredibly needy school gate mum. She cried too,at a drinks party for the Pre school parents, and made a scene, and rather than involving her friends in it, she just ranted at me for a while, felt better and asked for a hug.

Tons of people piled onto the post, saying I was the rude one, just as they are piling on top of you. Please keep a clear head. She started CRYING at her own coffee morning! This friendship is going nowhere!
Seriously, you've had a lucky escape. The other women asked you to leave?? Unless you carried on a seriously lengthy conversation in Dutch, you weren't rude.

I took the slagging I got here about my run in with my Alpha mum to heart, and texted her an apology. She tossed it aside and I found out afterwards, that she has had run ins with almost everyone, including shouting at the nursery staff. I thought she was crazy, and I should have gone with my own instincts. I was the new girl and thought I'd made this really significant enemy. No such thing.

At the very least,you two are a very bad match. Walk away and don't look back.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 16:38:50

I'm not alpha or beta, by the way....I'm weirda! It's a good way to avoid the scrum!

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 16:40:10

Brady - most of ours are actually OK....some are utter horrors, though.

GreenEggsAndNichts Wed 28-Nov-12 16:43:11

How long was the Dutch exchange? If it was more than a sentence or two from each of you, it would have been pushing things into rude territory, imo. And I say that as someone who has lived in NL, as well as Germany, and can make small talk in both languages.

The only time more than that is polite is if there is someone there who obviously struggles in the spoken language of the room. Talking to them a bit in the language they are comfortable with can help put them at ease, and most people would recognise that for what it is. However, I doubt this was the case here, as it's rare to meet a Dutch person who is uncomfortable with English, especially one who lives in the UK.

Your OP sounds terribly judgey (she's a bit tubby hmm again, a more polite way of saying this would be that she worries about her weight, or something. And that's only to illustrate that she's obviously self-conscious. Otherwise, it just sounds bitchy.) If you want to be this person's friend, you need to apologise. With flowers or something. If she was always nice to you before this coffee morning, then something happened that morning to stuff things up.

I might be going overboard with the flowers, but if you want to be friends with this people, you need to atone for whatever happened that morning. I assume you have many years of school gates ahead of you?

If you approach one of the other mums to ask, definitely do not compare yourself to the other mum. Watch your wording. Put it all on yourself, if she does comment on what the problem was, just say you were a bit nervous about finally getting together with them all, etc.

(That all having been said... crying? Was definitely over the top. shock)

maresedotes Wed 28-Nov-12 16:43:34

Mmm, I don't think the speaking Dutch part is particularly rude. Would have been if just the 3 of you at the party. She over-reacted but are you sure you have always been polite towards her? If you genuinely want to be friends then approach her directly, wouldn't mention it to a third party as things may get exaggerated.

suburbophobe Wed 28-Nov-12 16:46:25

And it is very rude to start speaking in another language like that during a social event.

Well, I don't agree. When we live in a world full of different nationalities, you're bound to meet someone somewhere you can share a language with. Not rude at all to exchange a few words with each other.

It's when everyone speaks Dutch (for example) leaving out the one who only speaks English, is when it is rude.

As for "Alpha Mum", she sounds like she's got lots of hang-ups...

<Trek je er niks van aan, schat! ;-) >

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 16:47:05

I'm not sure about the OP totally blaming herself - that could backfire and send her into sackcloth and ashes territory.

Maybe a card with something like "Sorry you are having a bad week, is there anything I can do to make it better?"

In that way, the AM can either discard the message or take the opportunity to build a bridge.

AlienRefluxLooksLikeSnow Wed 28-Nov-12 16:50:11

It's weird that she was so nice and welcoming, then had a total melt down?? I cannot believe there isn't more to this, that perhaps even Op is unaware of, very strange, I would have to get to the bottom of it personally, it would do my head in what went wrong

GreenEggsAndNichts Wed 28-Nov-12 16:55:31

minou you're right. I'm just unsure about what happened here, as the information given in the OP doesn't feel like the entire story. The woman went from friendly and welcoming to being in tears in the kitchen.. hmm She could be the sort of person Stormy mentioned above, in which case OP should run a mile.

Well, at the very least, speak to one of the other mums if possible to get a feel for what might have happened. I'd suggest some kind of contact with the crying mum, at least, because at the moment she and her friends perceive that you did something wrong. If you apologise and she doesn't accept, or decides to ignore you, at least you apologised and didn't ignore the situation.

pigletpower Wed 28-Nov-12 16:55:37

So speaking to someone else in a another language was rude? Wtaf. Would people be saying it was rude if two people in a group spoke an Asian language?

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 16:56:28

It's interesting that the AM has gone on about OP competing with her, when it seems like they haven't really spent that much time together - alone or in company.

This sounds all completely mad! Grown women crying in the kitchen because you spoke Dutch? You should expect an apology from her for calling you an effing bitch when there was a chance you would hear. This sounds like the iv or something. She's probably worried her friends will like you so was bad mouthing you. I hope you did a poo in her sink.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 16:58:59

Piglet - it's possible that the OP having another language under her belt was just too much to bear. If the two people were Asian, bilingual, and just slipped into it, you most likely wouldn't give it a second thought.

Iv = oc.

BuntyPenfold Wed 28-Nov-12 17:02:31

No wonder the English are notoriously bad at languages. Practising them is seen as rude instead of normal and sensible.

MrsDeVere Wed 28-Nov-12 17:02:41

Bloody hell. Threads like this make me glad I am an introvert and a bit common.

Its like another world out there

GreenEggsAndNichts Wed 28-Nov-12 17:08:57

er.. yes, I would say it regardless of what sort of language they were speaking. confused I spend a good amount of time socialising with academics and students from many countries. (and since it evidently matters, these people are often Asian) They rarely slip into another language, with the exception of a spouse who might be uncomfortable with English, or just needing a quick explanation of something, etc.

Keep in mind, I'm talking about social events, small parties etc where we might not all know each other very well. People tend to want to be on their best behaviour, and inclusive of everyone there. Which is what should have been happening at this coffee morning.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Wed 28-Nov-12 17:10:08

There's got to be something more that you're not telling us. Got to be.

Either that or she's not well.

Any way I wouldn't be going back for coffee.

This type of thing seldom happens at my intimate gin mornings.

MarshaBrady Wed 28-Nov-12 17:12:16

I can't see how speaking another language is a problem at all.

It sounds like a strange coffee morning.

bradywasmyfavouriteking Wed 28-Nov-12 17:12:37

Would people be saying it was rude if two people in a group spoke an Asian language

Yes. Its not the language of choice or the working itself. Its the exclusion of other people. Which would stand regardless of the language used.

I don't get why anyone would change their opinion if the language was Asian. I am confused.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 17:13:43

I think the difference with the Asian/Dutch thing is the element of surprise, Greeneggs. I guess the OP and the Dutch woman were pleased to find they had something in common, which you wouldn't expect just from looking at each other.
When two people are obviously from the same ethnic group (and I know there's thousands of languages and dialects) they might assume they speak the same/similar language, so would decide whether to use English or not according to time and place. I think the thing here is that the two women were surprised and pleased to meet.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 17:16:20

The Asian thing, as I understand it, is about being bilingual rather than having picked up a language later in life. We expect Asian people to have two or three languages at their disposal, whereas most Brits are lucky to have an extra one.
So, if alpha mum is already desperately insecure, OP has played a double whammy by having another language and displaying it at her coffee morning.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 17:17:42

Intimate gin mornings, you say........

Fairyegg Wed 28-Nov-12 17:18:12

Crikey, I hope this mum doesn't ever have to live where I do. People here regularly speak welsh in such situations (I'm not a welsh speaker), I have no problems with that unless it's only 3 of us and the other 2 are speaking welsh exclusively with no attempt to allow me to join in the conversation, but I doubt this was what you and the Dutch lady did. She sounds like a nutter. Smile politely and hold your head up high, she's the one who ought to feel embrassed not you.

PoppyAmex Wed 28-Nov-12 17:19:06

I agree with someone up thread that it sounds like OP is downplaying her part - it also sounds like there's already a backstory to their relationship, so the woman wouldn't be crying just because of today's events.

Hard to judge as we weren't present, but just by reading your post I get the feeling you aren't particularly nice to her so why bother?

AThingInYourLife Wed 28-Nov-12 17:19:24

"What makes a group of mums the 'alpha mums'? Genuine question."

Often it is the categorisation by a former "high flier" who now finds herself an outsider in a social group she thinks is beneath her but still wants to join.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 17:20:13

We need more details about the Dutch-speaking episode.
How long was it, where were the others? When did they migrate into the kitchen, and from where?

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Wed 28-Nov-12 17:20:20

Why did you say she was tubby? On reading your OP again properly you sound a bit mean. Why did you speak in Dutch to your other friend?

MrsDeVere Wed 28-Nov-12 17:20:38

I wouldnt think it rude if TWO people had a brief chat in Dutch/Asian/BSL etc.

There is an excitement in meeting someone who speaks your home language or one that you have studied.

Prolonged and exclusive conversations or the majority speaking in a language that a few do not understand is very different.

I went to a SureStart class in my area a few years back. I felt very excluded and didn't go back.

GreenEggsAndNichts Wed 28-Nov-12 17:20:47

minou you're right, I suspect the language thing is just piling on to the insecurities the host mum must be experiencing.

I would also like to hear more about these gin mornings. grin

I agree that it's very rude to speak in another language when others who don't speak it are present.

By dint of the fact that you are immediately excluding other people. It's nothing to do with jealousy or not wanting to learn another language ( nice generalisation there), it's just rude.

Some people might think that you are not being entirely complimentary either, I have been in the position where two women assumed that I couldn't understand what they were saying. Well I could and it wasn't nice.

I don't think that laughing was the best response either, there is obviously something going on with her. Do the children all get on ok?

curiousuze Wed 28-Nov-12 17:21:23

I don't get what is so unbelievably offensive about speaking a different language for a couple of sentences in front of a group of people. What the hell?

If I came across that silly, dramatic scene in the kitchen I would probably laugh a bit too, out of nervousness and secondhand embarrassment for the other woman.

OP I would give her a call and clear the air.

Janeatthebarre Wed 28-Nov-12 17:22:17

Did someone mention Gin?? <perks up>

Where did it say 'a couple of sentences' ?
OP said she was chatting in Dutch. I have said why I think it's rude.

barnet Wed 28-Nov-12 17:23:40

Good grief get a job or get a life, it sounds crazy that grown women are getting upset about this sort of thing.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 17:24:01

Thing is, where we are (I suspect it's a v similar environment to yours, Greeneggs), it's like the Tower of Babel, so you just get used to it.
Also, I might be spectacularly naive, but I've never assumed that when others are conversing in another language that they're talking about me. I'm really not worth the bother!

There are certain rules that have to be abided by, though...I find it works out that every few sentences you'll get the precised version from the person you know best.

Also, if you're around a particular language enough, you start chipping in, albeit in English, and it goes from there.

valiumredhead Wed 28-Nov-12 17:26:03

Sounds like she was rude but do you think it was excluding others because you were both speaking Dutch? Was it a couple of sentences or was it 20 mins?

curiousuze Wed 28-Nov-12 17:29:51

Same here minouminou, it wouldn't occur to me for a second to run off dramatically crying into my kitchen because someone was having a chat in a different language - because practically everyone I know round where I live slips in and out of different languages! Good grief.

Mintyy Wed 28-Nov-12 17:31:24

It just sounds like the AlphaMum is highly stressed atm and the best thing you can do is apologise for any upset you have caused her.

AThingInYourLife Wed 28-Nov-12 17:32:35

"Good grief get a job or get a life, it sounds crazy that grown women are getting upset about this sort of thing."

Yeah, fucking women and their trivial concerns!

They should go out to work where people only talk about really, really important things.

TheLightPassenger Wed 28-Nov-12 17:32:37

This "alpha" mum stuff is most strange. Don't speak to one of her friends about this, I agree as someone posted upthread about taking the "are you OK" line rather than OMG so sorry I upset you line".

grin I thought that athinginyourlife

tiggytape Wed 28-Nov-12 17:34:54

If you are bilingual and in company, the polite (even correct) thing to do is only speak the common language that everyone present shares. Anything else is seen as incredibly rude so unless you literally spoke a couple of words to confirm the novelty of finding someone else who speaks Dutch, you were in the wrong with that.

We have bilingual (well trilingual I think - is that a word?) friends who are really strict about teaching their children this and insist they only speak English in company even when the kids are excitable and want to speak quickly in their own language.

But saying that, her reaction was way over the top. Maybe its true though – she’s had a terrible week which her friends know all about and this lack of consideration on your part tipped her over the edge.

Just apologise and move on.

hackmum Wed 28-Nov-12 17:36:15

Completely amazed that a group of women would refer to themselves, without irony, as "alpha mums".

Mintyy Wed 28-Nov-12 17:39:19

I think its the op who has used that phrase, not anyone else?

GrendelsMum Wed 28-Nov-12 17:41:50

I've found that Dutch and British social norms are extremely different, and that Dutch people can unintentionally come across as rude / blunt / overly demanding in the UK (and the British people come across as mad, secretive and easily offended). I think that because many Dutch people speak such good English, British people tend to assume they're also using the same social rules, and so the cultural differences are all the more surprising.

Do you think that something like this might have been going on, OP?

diabolo Wed 28-Nov-12 17:43:48

I'm with you there hackmum grin

OP - go and get a job or a hobby and leave this bunch of mums to do whatever it is they do all day.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 17:44:51

Yes, Grendel's mum - I can see that. I think, if challenged, the Dutch mum would have responded with: "I haven't spoken Dutch for two weeks. I'm enjoying it."

End of story.
Good analysis there.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 17:46:05

Thing is, though, the OP comes across as wanting to make chums, and is worried that she's fucked up in a major way.
It's not a trivial concern at all - she's got to deal with these people for the next few years.

SilverBaubles33 Wed 28-Nov-12 17:47:54

Wow, thanks so much for all these replies, I really appreciate your time.

I hope I will answer everything you've asked, if not apologies!

I said Alpha because one of the group called it that, she said it's like soccer moms in America where we were just living. If that's offensive, I'm really sorry! To me, they're the mums who get things done, are on the PTA, help with match teas, etc, and I thought as I wanted to get involved in the girls' school life, it would be a great starting point as they're all pretty active and social.

the stuff I said about her were the things she talks to me about in the dozen or so conversations we've had since October - she keeps telling me how fat she thinks she is, how she wished her daughters were as sporty that sort of thing - very negative about herself. They are her words, especially the 'high-powered' remark. I had a good job, now I don't work, not big deal.

The Dutch thing was about four of us sitting about chatting, the Dutch lady didn't speak much English, another mum said, Silver didn't you live there, can you speak Dutch, I said yes a bit and the Dutch lady said, in Dutch, that's great, so good to speak Dutch, how long have you been here and some chat about our kids. I answered her and translated for the others at the end, I really didn't feel that it was rude, she was so happy to speak inner native language and as English isn't my mother tongue, I could totally appreciate how that felt.

I sooty of laughed when she was crying because I felt really embarrassed, having heard what she said and wondering if it was a joke. It clearly wasn't, they asked me to go and I did.

Now I've read your replies and spoken to my husband, I'm going to try and call her when the kids are in bed and see if she's more receptive.

I think I will apologise because whatever it was, she was clearly very upset indeed and I don't want to make things hard for my girls to make friends as her daughter is in their class.

Speaking in Dutch at someone else's house is a bit "closed off" to the others. But seriously, crying over it? Slight over reaction.

We have Alpha Mums in our playground. I generally don't have much to do with the one upmanship bollocks they all trade in. These people are never really mates, its all just a sport for them along the lines of "my son is good at football", "well my son has been picked for a local team". You get the idea.

Sod her. Apologise to keep the peace, but if two of you chatted in Dutch then surely she should have moaned about both of you? She clearly has isshoos.

LaCiccolina Wed 28-Nov-12 17:50:53

Crumbs out playgroup must b a nightmare. We have a few polish, Portuguese Asian Indian etc I'd think it weird if two who just met didn't natter for a bit in own/shared language.

Did u whisper? Then I'd b uncomfortable!

LaCiccolina Wed 28-Nov-12 17:51:11

*our not out!

SlightlySuperiorPeasant Wed 28-Nov-12 17:51:24

I'm glad you clarified the Dutch bit; it changes the situation.

I agree with calling her. She sounds a bit odd TBH but there's no harm in going for a fresh start.

Fairyegg Wed 28-Nov-12 17:53:48

Don't apologise, just ask if everything is alright. If she then tells you 'no you did/ said ....... ' Then you apolosise for that if you think you were in the wrong. Otherwise just say something along the lines of 'sorry you have a problem with that' and leave it as that. She sounds mad to me!

ClippedPhoenix Wed 28-Nov-12 17:55:02

Now you've gone into more detail, yes, she does sound like a nutter. I'd do what Fairegg said.

ClippedPhoenix Wed 28-Nov-12 17:56:27

She sounds very insecure and rather threatened by you.

CindySherman Wed 28-Nov-12 17:56:30

OP you sound perfectly normal to me. It sounds like this other Mum is going through a bad time and she does sounds jealous of you. I would step back for a bit and let things settle. You really didn't do anything wrong. A few words in another language is not rude and you laughed because you were nervous!

frikonastick Wed 28-Nov-12 17:58:09

She is mad. Don't apologise. Make different friends. Consider this a lucky escape.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Wed 28-Nov-12 17:58:20

Thanks for clearing stuff up OP.
Tbh if someone called me a fucking bitch is want a BIG apology of them especially if it was uncalled for like it seems here.

I just don't think I could be arsed with all this lot.
Jesus your friends are there for a laugh not this kind of drama.

shockers Wed 28-Nov-12 17:58:24

Yes, I thought you were rude before, but now you have explained, I don't. I think that there must be something else bothering this lady. I hope she has calmed down sufficiently to explain to you why you were asked to leave.

curiousuze Wed 28-Nov-12 18:03:09

I would call and smooth things over and then distance yourself! They all sound awful and I can imagine there is a constant whirl of silly drama surrounding them.

Screaminabdabs Wed 28-Nov-12 18:03:18

I would take/send flowers and go overboard with the apologies. She may indeed be having a very hard time which you don't know about (could be anything...) so fulsome apologies with gifts will make her feel better and absolve you. And flatter her fragile ego by saying you really want to be friends, even if you then steer clear.

We have coffee mornings with native speakers of all sorts chatting away to each other in their own languages. It's not rude.

And as you've now described what you did - it was the very opposite of rude.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Wed 28-Nov-12 18:05:06

screaming you'd take flowers to someone who called you an effing bitch for talking Dutch!

You're a better woman than me.

Screaminabdabs Wed 28-Nov-12 18:06:07

Yes. It is about being the bigger woman. Although that's rather unfortunate in this case. grin

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Wed 28-Nov-12 18:07:25


I think you need to retaliate with a full scale Dutch themed coffee morning, windmills, clogs, bikes, waffles, costumes - the whole lot. When she arrives run off into the kitchen screeching wildly in Dutch. If she asks ou why just say you thought that was how things get sorted in this group. See how she likes them apples.

MarshaBrady Wed 28-Nov-12 18:12:48

Ha I love that saying grin

curiousuze Wed 28-Nov-12 18:14:15

:D :D Geraldine, that is perfect! Hey don't the Dutch have St Nicolas day next Wednesday? Go for it!

TheLightPassenger Wed 28-Nov-12 18:14:49

ok, now you have explained the dutch bit in more detail you weren't rude at all. I would be polite but swerve the "alphas" in future. am boggling at them describing themselves as alphas.

Gravenwithdiamonds Wed 28-Nov-12 18:17:46

Sorry...she called you a fucking bitch at a school coffee morning and people are suggesting that you apologise?!

Avoid, avoid, avoid. She obviously has lots of issues that have nothing to do with you. You sound sane and reasonable, she sounds loopy or, at least, deeply unhappy and, given that she seems already to have lots of friends round her, I wouldn't get involved.

And if your school is anything like my children's (50+ languages spoken), nobody should bat an eyelid at two parents speaking briefly in another language.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Wed 28-Nov-12 18:21:07

Out of curiosity, if English is not your mother tongue, and you also speak dutch, what other languages do you speak?

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Wed 28-Nov-12 18:22:31

I also agree that you have nothing to really apologize for. Other mum behaved atrociously, so rude to cry in the kitchen, say you ruined her coffee morning when you actually tried to include somebody who did not speak the language well, and then you are told to "fuck off bitch" and asked to leave.

digerd Wed 28-Nov-12 18:23:39

They call themselves Alpha Mums? How strange. Alpha means the "top dog" the biggest, strongest and most confident one of a group that is in charge and all others are subordinate to him or her. ( Love my animal films.) There is only ONE Apha in a group by definition. Wolves have 1 alpha male and 1 female in their pack.
The lady who cried at her own coffee morning does not fit in with any defintion of an Alpha, more like the cringing , whinging lowest ranking in a group. She has serious inferiority complex issues, and actually find her pitiful.

MrsDeVere Wed 28-Nov-12 18:24:26

If you apologise you are setting the tone for the rest of your relationship.

If she manages to get you chase after her and say sorry for interpreting and after she has called you a fucking bitch,

what the hell are you going to do for her if you spill red wine on her sofa shock

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Wed 28-Nov-12 18:25:28

Ignore her, know that she is pitiable.

SugaricePlumFairy Wed 28-Nov-12 18:25:48

Don't apologise, Alpha sounds very needy. Move on and don't dwell on it.

AThingInYourLife Wed 28-Nov-12 18:31:01

"The Dutch thing was about four of us sitting about chatting, the Dutch lady didn't speak much English, another mum said, Silver didn't you live there, can you speak Dutch, I said yes a bit and the Dutch lady said, in Dutch, that's great, so good to speak Dutch, how long have you been here and some chat about our kids. I answered her and translated for the others at the end, I really didn't feel that it was rude, she was so happy to speak inner native language and as English isn't my mother tongue, I could totally appreciate how that felt."

No, that wasn't rude. That was nice of you.

I'm guessing then that they asked you to just make yourself scarce after the embarrassing overhearing incident, rather than kicking you out.

It must be a very bad week for her. Or they're all batshit crazy.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 18:31:54

If you do send flowers, they have to be tulips.

Yeah.....say you're sorry she's having a hard time and then disengage.

quesadilla Wed 28-Nov-12 18:33:16

Over-reaction, much? She sounds hysterical to me. Yes, the speaking Dutch thing is a bit show-off and tactless - I think rude is over the top but still... Anyone who is that upset by a minor faux pas by someone they hardly know that they cry in piblic is either a world class attention seeker or unbalanced. Stay away...

SilverBaubles33 Wed 28-Nov-12 18:34:18

You know what, I wish that you guys were all the mums at school, have just laughed really loudly at the Dutch themed coffee morning, we can have some ginever (gin) and Sinterklaas can stuff our shoes with chocolate.

Maybe I will try spilling the red wine or pooing in the sink!

Thank you all, so so much, that horrible feeling had gone, I have laughed it out of my stomach and I think that I will call the Dutch mum and actually speak to somebody normal.

I am Belgian, but lived all over the world, so I can speak a few languages, but really it's not a big deal, I can hardly count to ten in any of them!

Thank you all.

HairyGrotter Wed 28-Nov-12 18:34:56

Christ, this is why I'm 'Rude wanker mum' at school. I converse with no-one, happy days.

The mum sounds mental, the mates sound mental, and generally, I'd avoid it like the fucking plague. All fucking mental.

School politics, fuck that

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 18:35:32

Quesadilla...the OP was helping a Dutch lady whose English wasn't too good at the gathering.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 18:39:18

Yeah, call your Dutch friend. What about the woman who introduced you to her?

curiousuze Wed 28-Nov-12 18:40:29

Oh god Silver I am peeing myself laughing at the thought of you marching across the kitchen and having a poo in her sink while she sobs in her friends' arms...ahahahaha

SilverBaubles33 Wed 28-Nov-12 18:46:01

Curious, me too. My husband thinks the sending tulip plan is genius and is on the inter flora site. But he also has suggested we drink gin, dress as Navy Seals, go back to her house and launch a massive poo offensive. He is thinking bigger than the kitchen sink, we may need some back up.

I once had a party guest who peed in my cutlery drawer. Frankly, i would have preferred a bit of discourse in a foreign tongue instead of the stench of urine and the sticky cutlery. I didn't swear at him or 'set my mates on him' though.

Wheresmypopcorn Wed 28-Nov-12 18:47:06

Sounds ridiculous, why would she cry in the kitchen while you are there. She should apologies.

GreenEggsAndNichts Wed 28-Nov-12 18:48:24

oh good lord. Having read your follow-ups I have to say, host mum is potentially even more of a nutcase than I originally thought. Definitely give a cursory phone call and see how she is, but if she decides to make this a big damned deal, then she's not someone to be bothered with.

I would also be hmm over people referring to themselves as Alpha mums.

ClippedPhoenix Wed 28-Nov-12 18:50:17

I'm all for a "dirty protest" grin

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 18:50:26

Oh, I've overheard people referring to themselves as North Oxford elite.

It wasn't me. It was some bird we used to call Vinegar Knickers.
She moved away, thankfully.

SugaricePlumFairy Wed 28-Nov-12 18:51:38

OP, Alpha is a loon.

Who cries at a coffee morning, calls you an effing Bitch then gets flowers from the woman she insulted.

Steer clear at all costs, you sound lovely grin

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 18:53:20

Where in the UK are you, OP?

MrsDeVere Wed 28-Nov-12 18:56:38

Not in Walthamstow, that much is for sure...

curiousuze Wed 28-Nov-12 18:58:42

That's where I am too MrsDevere!

MrsDeVere Wed 28-Nov-12 18:59:29

There are quite a few of us on MN now.

I take that as a sign E17 is up and coming grin

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Wed 28-Nov-12 18:59:49


A friend of mine referred to us as "top of the food chain" I looked like this hmm

"... saying that I had ruined her coffee morning, I was an effing bitch, she wished she's never invited me etc."
And saying this wreathed in her four henchmen friends.

She sounds like a loon. I would want an apology from her, personally.

Alliwantisaroomsomewhere Wed 28-Nov-12 19:00:37

That woman sounds like a fucking loony. No one needs friends like that. I would not even apologise as you had done NOTHING wrong.

You would be well rid of them.

curiousuze Wed 28-Nov-12 19:01:33

I've heard it called Awesomestow grin

Alliwantisaroomsomewhere Wed 28-Nov-12 19:01:46

PS I hope your kids speak Dutch - maybe you should talk REALLY LOUDLY TO THEM IN DUTCH WHEN THEY ARE IN THE PLAYGROUND. grin that should fuck her off even more.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Wed 28-Nov-12 19:03:54

Maybe her husband just left her for a Dutch woman?

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 19:04:11

Well, I guess all humans are, Quint......
That thought would piss on her bonfire.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Wed 28-Nov-12 19:06:53

indeed it would....

TwitchyTail Wed 28-Nov-12 19:07:21

A coffee morning trapped in a building with women who genuinely call themselves Alpha Mums?

<shudders with fear and locks the doors>

Chubfuddler Wed 28-Nov-12 19:09:49

She's completely mad. You don't need to be friends with these people. You really don't. DS gets invited to all the parties and I am not at all chummy with the school gate crowd - I'm not rude, I'm not hostile, I smile and say hi and that's about it. Negative impact - nil.

Make your own friends. These people sound strange.

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 28-Nov-12 19:10:03

She sounds really jealous and threatened by you.

Mumsyblouse Wed 28-Nov-12 19:13:56

I don't think it's rude for two people who have just met, who share the same language and have that moment of 'wow, we can speak to each other' to chat in their shared language for a small amount of time, I have friends who are Swedish and Norweigan but who didn't know each other well, met up and started chatting away in Swedish having a great time, they then turned to me and said 'sorry, we were just chatting about XYZ'. No issue from me at all, I was delighted they met each other.

I think it is a bit odd people keep repeating it's always rude to speak in another language and you should always use the shared language. Well, in the majority of cases, that IS English and so what you are saying is that most foreigners should speak English when in company, even if there's only one English person present. My husband is from another country and I find it wincingly embarassing if he's with several friends and they all have to speak my language when they share a common language, usually I say 'do speak in your own language' to avoid this.

I can usually tell if people are using language to exclude and that's not often the case. I think it's strange to make everyone speak in broken or little English just to include you, as you are effectively stopping them communicating easily on occasions (unless they are really fluent).

goralka Wed 28-Nov-12 19:14:39

blleeeeeeee @ 'Alpha mums' - just vile -

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Wed 28-Nov-12 19:17:31

They actually call themselves alpha mums?!? I missed that.
OP I forbid you to never speak to them again. wink

piprabbit Wed 28-Nov-12 19:18:42

When Alpha Mum says something like "Ooh Silver you are so slim and high-powered, while my children are thick and I am slightly tubby", do you reply:

A) "Don't be daft, your kids are fantastic and I'm so pleased to have met someone kind who has welcomed me to my DCs new school".

B) "I am, aren't I"

C) "Sorry, was ik nadacht over mijn spannende leven. Wat zei u?"

Chubfuddler Wed 28-Nov-12 19:20:08

They call themselves the alpha mums? Seriously?

I really do think you should shit in her sink. That' is pathetic.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 19:22:49

Honestly, guys....these people do exist.
See my post about "North Oxford elite".....

It's fairly rare, but it's enough to upset you if you're sensitive.

I genuinely left Oxford due to the North Oxford Elite. I am pleased to say that I have never come accross others like them since.

MarshaBrady Wed 28-Nov-12 19:26:08

They call themselves The Alpha Mums? Like a band. What a laugh.

ImperialBlether Wed 28-Nov-12 19:29:25

I think the Alpha mum who thinks she's an Omega mum thought you'd just taken the biscuit when you spoke Dutch. You can imagine her, "You know that fucking bitch with the skinny thighs and clever kids and kiss ass job? She speaks Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuutch Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"

KitchenandJumble Wed 28-Nov-12 19:29:32

It sounds like the latest episode of the series "Drama Queens With Too Much Time on Their Hands."

Seriously, this alpha mum is clearly a nutter. Steer clear of her and her minions.

I'm always surprised when people find it rude when others speak another language. I think the OP was extremely kind to chat for a minute in a shared language to someone who doesn't speak much English. And she even translated the conversation for the others. Nothing rude about that by any stretch of the imagination.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 19:30:06

Really, Tough? Fuck. Sorry to hear that..... That must have been difficult.
I know someone who put on four stones because of it.
I'm a hard-faced git, though, and I laugh at it. That's the key to surviving.
That, and having lots of foreign chums!

curiousuze Wed 28-Nov-12 19:32:57

This whole thing is like the plot of Mean Girls.

DudeInaTutu Wed 28-Nov-12 19:37:22

personally, i think if i were you OP i would try and get to know dutch mum a bit more and forget the rest of the "alpha" mums - my god that woman must feel very threatened by you to have over reacted so spectacularly! i would do what ever you feel you need to do to make life pleasant but then i would steer clear of the loons....

mrsshackleton Wed 28-Nov-12 19:43:05

Agree, stick with the nice Dutch mum and send Alpha mum a lump of gouda - actually, maybe not. Very fattening.

Bagofspiders Wed 28-Nov-12 19:50:58

Geraldine I just woke up DS by laughing at a party guest peeing in your cutlery drawer! Were they aiming for the sink?!

But seriously OP they all sound bonkers, there MUST be some normal parents at the school for you to be friend with.

It's ok min, the gist of the conversation was that I had put on about four stone grin

I have a lump of Gouda in my fridge if you want it.

It was brought by my Dutch in-laws when they last visited, it's really quite large. I can send them & DH to deliver it to Alpha mum at the school gates whilst singing the Dutch National Anthem - a sort of Nederlander-gram of peace & reconciliation.

Alternatively - steer well clear of the loon for ever more (on balance I prefer the first option).

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 20:09:34

Ah....Tough. It's not you, though! This is someone who still lives here.

AlexReidsLonelyThisChristmas Wed 28-Nov-12 20:10:02

Please please don't apologise to her, as an above poster very wisely said if you do you'll be setting the tone for the rest of your relationship. And what a shit relationship it would be. Steer clear.
Stick with Dutch mum and ensure you chatter loudly in the playground together grin

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 20:13:14

.....and bombard her and her cabal with triple salty liquorice.

MrsWembley Wed 28-Nov-12 20:13:31

Oh man, I have just come in on the end of this and am so pleased Silver's being seen as the good guy now. I understood from the first that the Alpha Mum was saying those things and she was just paraphrasing.

But then I am a superior being, with skills that far exceed anything to be found on your planet...

<marking place for the outcome of the phone call>

I could set up a support group for exiles from summertown and the favoured surrounding areas.

Chubfuddler Wed 28-Nov-12 20:17:29

I need to know more about the north Oxford elite. A perfectly lovely girl I went to school with lives in Oxford and is about to have her first baby. Do I need to warn her?

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 20:18:58

Whereabouts is she, Chub?
What does she do?
How old is she?

Chubfuddler Wed 28-Nov-12 20:21:48

I'm not sure what part of Oxford. She's 34 and a lawyer.

SavoyCabbage Wed 28-Nov-12 20:26:47

My friendship group is awash with immigrants speaking in their own language at coffee mornings. When you live in another country it's a joy to find someone who shares even a small part of your background. Where I live, nobody knows who bagpuss is or what cling film is. Or lemon curd. Or knickers, it's exhausting.

MrsWembley Wed 28-Nov-12 20:27:25

Sounds like she'll be fine...wink

BegoniaBampot Wed 28-Nov-12 20:27:26

C) "Sorry, was ik nadacht over mijn spannende leven. Wat zei u?"

Why do I get the feeling this is about pooing in someone's sink - shudder.

RabbitsMakeGOLDBaubles Wed 28-Nov-12 20:28:54


She sounds like a nightmare.

Don't apologise for being sane and normal.

She obviously is intimidated by you, she constantly puts herself down in front of you, but some of it is like stealth boasting (high-powered job), and it is obvious she is comparing herself next to you and not liking what she is seeing/not hearing (do you give her the profuse attention stroking she is looking for in a minion when she puts herself down or not? I'm guessing not). It sounds to me like that little escapade at her house was a way of making sure your name is blackened with her followers, she's manipulated a falling out where she looks like the victim using a reason that isn't even true, which is in fact actually the opposite of what you do, thus in her eyes knocking you down a peg or two to ensure she stays "alpha" in her group.

In other words, she's shallow, and intimidated by you, likes to manipulate people, and will lie to get them on her side. She's likely to constantly be competitive with you, negatively, and is at the very least quite emotionally unstable.

Do you really want to be friends with that?

CockyPants Wed 28-Nov-12 20:29:35

Alpha muvvers are psycho. DDs school is full of them. Sadly they draw all the nicer mums into their web and they become psycho too...

BegoniaBampot Wed 28-Nov-12 20:31:49

Language thing depends. It's always polite to speak in the language understood by all, especially if nattering away and one person is standing like a lemon. Saying that, most Dutch folk I know all speak better English than me. Maybe she really is having a bad week and struggling or she could be just unbalanced, there are quite a few out there. f you feel you did nothing wrong, don't go overboard with apologies and no flowers. Just ask if she is ok and say it's a shame how things went or whatever to clear the air.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Wed 28-Nov-12 20:32:32

There are no real alpha mothers at our school. <unless it's me> grin
I would be staying well away if there were.


Min I had a very bad experience with salty liquorice after the in-laws came - I am a liquorice fan, I love liquorice, so crammed a large handful in my gob.

Jeysus christ, it was as though every cavity in my head had been filled with the pungent scent of cat's-piss - took about two hours for the onslaught to fade - I do not recommend.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 20:39:51

Chub - she'll most likely be alright.

Re salty liquorice - love it love it love it, although I tried the triple stuff and thought I was going to have a panic attack!

giveitago Wed 28-Nov-12 20:41:32

This is a bonkers thread.

Did this honestly and truly happen?

If it really did just don't apologise or anything as you're engaging with a wierd person.

But the entire thing is wierd. Op also sounds a touch alpha as well.

Avoid them - and I very much hope the kids at the school are not playing out what the parents are doing. Bonkers.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 20:42:11

From my pidgin Swedish (which serves quite well for Dutch and Afrikaans too), Sorry, was ik nadacht over mijn spannende leven. Wat zei u? means "Sorry I was thinking about my exciting/amazing life. What did you say?"

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 20:43:22

The alpha mum is a rubbish alpha mum. So are her chums. She's let herself down really badly and is now a gamma mamma.

Her friends don't realise this, because they're rubbish alpha mums too.

MarshaBrady Wed 28-Nov-12 20:44:20

grin Min

Yes rubbish.

BegoniaBampot Wed 28-Nov-12 20:44:45

Thanks minou but think I prefer to think it's about pooing in the sink!

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 20:45:37

Or in her boots, which she's WAY too big for.

BegoniaBampot Wed 28-Nov-12 20:46:16

Wonder if any of them are reading this and will do a right of reply - go on, go on, go on...

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 20:47:05

Fight, fight, fight.......

SilverBaubles33 Wed 28-Nov-12 20:56:15

I have been putting the girls to bed, listening to my husband shouting with laughter. He is very amused that someone thinks I have skinny thighs, he adores the salty liquorice conversation because he hates it. He is American and he told me that Vinegar Knickers was something disgusting. Hmmm.

He never once wanted to read this site when I was researching schools, holiday destinations or books.

Now I can't get him off. He wants to have a gin party and offer liquorice and play poo in the sink. I am going to log him off now, but again I thank you all.

Oh, we are in the south, outside London. I have texted the Dutch mum and she's coming for coffee next week. I will be seeing the Alphas at a sports match on Saturday and will be friendly but dignified and keep in my mind all your funny kind remarks.

I think maybe I should try to find some work to fill my day!!

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 28-Nov-12 20:58:09

She sounds bonkers like conkers. Who'd call themselves an Alpha when it makes you sound like an utter cock.

I'd give these women a super wide berth if I were you. Apologise by all means if you feel you must, but any further attempts to rationales with this DramaLlama is doomed.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 20:59:51

That's brilliant, Silver! Glad you've made contact with the Dutch mum.
See - that's your take-away from this. You've made a friend and the alpha mum has made herself look like a right knob.

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 28-Nov-12 20:59:55

Silver observe the Mumsnet mantra when under extreme pressure:

Smile and wave, smile and wave

Then get your ass back here and update us!

SilverBaubles33 Wed 28-Nov-12 21:03:47

Oh, ok. I will!

He is also wanting to offer a job to the lady who invented Nederlandergram.

I really am going now, good night!

UrbanSpaceMonkey Wed 28-Nov-12 21:20:42

grin Smile & wave.

We have 'The Cheerleaders' at our school, they are so polished, complicated in their relationships and vapid in their conversation, I can't believe they've had a decent fuck in years.

Smile & wave, makes my jaw ache and my sphincter clench.

RabbitsMakeGOLDBaubles Wed 28-Nov-12 21:36:49

Dammit, now every time I see an "alpha" I am going to clench my bum hole! I don't think this is a good habit to develop. Grumble grumble.

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 21:42:44

In all fairness, some are absolutely sound. They're just high-powered types who are popular and down-to-earth.

RabbitsMakeGOLDBaubles Wed 28-Nov-12 21:48:13

Absolutely minouminou, same as some of the weirdos, like me, are actually really quite nice when you get to know them, and some of them are just strange beings. [sage nod]

Excellent Silver am glad this thread has cheered you up.

Depends what your DH's line of business actually is, if he runs an internationally franchised chain of inappropriate greeting providers I'll have to pass.

I am up to my neck in private work of this kind - for coma victims we already have the 'cato-tonic', a bouquet of balloons complete with Proustian favourite Glade style plug-in & a selection of the recipient's 'tunes of the decade you first felt a nipple of your chosen sexual orientation' (that was not a family member), we also have the hebejebeBeeGees which is a fantastic birthday gift for any phobic member of the family, in which Robin Gibb look/sound-alike will turn up at their door dressed as the recipient's greatest fear & regale them with a falsetto greeting tailored just for them.

So pretty much have the market cornered there.

If however, he's looking for someone to deliver rubbish puns - I'm your woman.

<Wildly derails thread>

PurpleHeadedMountain Wed 28-Nov-12 21:59:49

justread grin that really made me laugh..

minouminou Wed 28-Nov-12 22:04:33

I think these birds will need the scent of new money...........

pigletmania Wed 28-Nov-12 22:45:59

Just give them all a very wide birth

I apologise, I read the start of the thread, but when I realised OP hadn't replied in 3 pages I gave up!

But, my penneth worth is that it isn't so bad to have a chat in Dutch. If it went on all afternoon, fair enough, but a chat is okay?

My job involves languages and any chance i get to speak a language I work in is a massive nerdy treat (blush at memory when I discovered one of the bar staff at my local was spanish).

For that reason alone, OP is NBU. There may be more to it though, which I haven't read.

honeytea Thu 29-Nov-12 04:09:58

I think the alpha mum needs some more hobbies, maybe you could buy her a teach yourself dutch book.

I hope your coffee with the dutch mum is fun smile

ipswichwitch Thu 29-Nov-12 06:49:04

I would definitely stick with the Dutch mum- the others sound like total loons. Off now to browse the Rosetta Stone catalogue, I've got 4years til DS starts school to learn some Dutch.....

hygienequeen Thu 29-Nov-12 09:34:52

Don't apologise, she should apologise to you for making you feel so uncomfortable in her house !

and fgs ! it's a small world these days, we live in Holland and while our school isn't an international one, there are something like 40 nationalities there, everyone speaks fab English, but more often than not will talk to their friends in their own language ( then translate !) no biggie

talking of biggies ..... can't get an image out of my head of you and your husband shitting in her sink .... succes ( as they say in Nederlands !)

Janeatthebarre Thu 29-Nov-12 11:02:03

Just read Silver's clarification of what happened.

That group of 'alpha mums' sound like a crowd of over grown schoolgirls who need to cop themselves on and maybe broaden their horizons a bit. Getting involved in your kids' schools in good; but seeing it as an extension of your own schooldays and diving straight back into the 'gang mentality', 'cool kids and not so cool kids' kind of stuff is absolutely pathetic.
I would steer well clear of them Silver.

LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 11:11:31

Well, speaking in Dutch is a bit crass, we all know that...

But, someone openly bursting into tears at their own coffee morning...because they somehow feel over-shadowed/insecure by a guest they have invited...purleese hmm

Avoid. Avoid. Avoid [sirens lights flashing...]

Next time you see her - smile, be civil, but move on fast. Don't get sucked into the life of anyone who indulges in this type of weirdy, emotional, needy, power-play fuckwittage.

Life. Is. Too. Short.

CoteDAzur Thu 29-Nov-12 11:19:54

She sounds like a slightly deranged drama queen. It's a coffee morning, not a wedding. How do you "ruin" it, especially by speaking in a foreign language for a while? If she didn't like it, she could have tried to involve you in their conversation, in English.

LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 11:23:53

How far down the Path of Crazed Insecurity do you need to be, in order to cry because someone is speaking in Dutch at your coffee morning hmm

I like coffee mornings where I have to undone the top button of my jeans because I've eaten too much cake and laughed a bit too hard smile

LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 11:28:10

This reminds me vaguely of an incident about 3 years ago at the DD's school - something involving a lunchtime supervisor (also a parent at school)reprimanding DD1 for doing handstands, or something....didn't bother me at all, but I joked about it to DD1's teacher.

Next thing I knew the lunchtime supervisor had apparently gone to the HT, and cried in her office ???), and then stopped me in the playground to ^tackle me about direspecting her to DD1's teacher' before getting tearful again...WTAF?

To be honest, I felt a bit scared.

SugaricePlumFairy Thu 29-Nov-12 11:33:29

La Queen grin

Now you mention about that incident at your dd's school it reminds me of one involving ds2.

One Christmas about 5 years ago when he was 10 ds2 and a friend sent a Christmas card to a particularly vile lunchtime supervisor with ' Merry Christmas but you're fired' written in it. She became hysterical ' myself and the other Mother were summoned into school to explain our Sons actions as she was convinced there was a Witch hunt against her hmm.


LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 11:35:07

Sugar words fail me [puts head in hands...]

LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 11:37:28

I didn't even know what the lunchtime suprervisior looked like...but, suddenly she button-holes me in the playground, sounding quite strident before sniffing back tears...

And, I'm standing there with armfuls of book-bags, lunch-boxes and two coats thinking 'Help...someone help me...'

Barking, too!

MrsDeVere Thu 29-Nov-12 11:38:23

Bloody hell. If I cried everytime a child or parent made a remark to or about me I would be a mere husk.

Not that i am crap you understand..

MrsDeVere Thu 29-Nov-12 11:39:40

Any way, I hate this sort of manipulative behaviour. It pisses me right off. These people go through life bullying others whilst maintaining the reputation of being sensitive and delicate.
My arse.

LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 11:41:50

I can't rightly remember - but I think the joking remark I made to DD1's teacher was along the lines of 'I'm just pleased that DD1 can actually do handstands - I never could at school, I never got further than my BAGA Level 4 badge...'

Didn't even mention the supervisior, personally, at all.

But, apparently she saw me and the teacher laughing, overheard the word 'handstands' and took umbrage and flung herself into the HT's office and started crying.


LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 11:44:54

Yes, I agree Mrs

"Oooh, look, look I'm such a wee, delicate flower that everyone always has to be really, really nice to me all the time...because if they're not that I'm going to pantomime, and cry and sulk and affect half a dozen distressing symptoms...and it's not because I'm an egocentric, entitled, attention-seeking prima-donna, oh's because I'm just so sensitive, and special, and so much more easily hurt and lovely than everyone else..."

Oh, do fuck off.

CoteDAzur Thu 29-Nov-12 11:46:20

LaQueen grin Now tell us what you really think.

LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 11:54:44

Yes, perhaps I was a bit hesitant in my opinion?

CoteDAzur Thu 29-Nov-12 12:04:34

It felt like you were holding back grin

SilverBaubles33 Thu 29-Nov-12 12:10:04

I like coffee mornings where I have to undone the top button of my jeans because I've eaten too much cake and laughed a bit too hard

Exactly what I think too!

Also agree that many people get what they want by being very oversensitive. And dramatic. My favourite new word is Dramallama. I have used it several times already, and it's not yet lunchtime.

Your stories have made me laugh today, what lovely people you are, thanks.

LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 12:11:58

Cote is a failing of mine, I sit on the fence far too much and never dare say what I really think...

LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 12:13:57

Silver come to me for coffee. I promise not to cry, or to feel remotely intimidated that you can speak Dutch and I promise you'll eat lots of cake and laugh even more grin

[puts kettle on...]

Badvocsanta Thu 29-Nov-12 12:15:51

Now old are these people?
I have zero tolerance for this sort of shit and this is also the reason I would never go to a "mums coffee morning".
Just the thought if it makes by buttocks clench. And that's not easy for me. There's a lot of buttock to clench, people!

LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 12:16:00

On a serious note... why do some people want other people to feel sorry for them and to give them lots of attention because they feel pity for them hmm

I just don't get it?

I never, ever, ever want anyone to feel sorry for me, ever. Or even worse, pity me [shudder]

LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 12:17:15

You'd like my coffee mornings Bad grin

Badvocsanta Thu 29-Nov-12 12:17:57

I don't know, LQ.
My sil is like this.
I love her but a lot of the time I spend with her is spent biting my lip and contemplating hitting her over the head with something blunt.

musicismylife Thu 29-Nov-12 12:19:15


'I would try to speak to whichever of her friends seems the least crazy'

grin grin

That made me laugh out loud!!

Badvocsanta Thu 29-Nov-12 12:19:54

I am sure I would LQ smile
But then you would never get rid of me and I would haunt your social gatherings from thence forward....
It would end badly.
Restraining orders, me weeping at your
Best not smile

LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 12:22:50

Oh, no...would you cry because I can make (very) basic conversation in German, too bad hmm

You would, wouldn't you...? [suspicious]

Badvocsanta Thu 29-Nov-12 12:26:55

Ooo ohh I can do basic German!
Vie gehts LQ?
Mein name ist badvocsanta.
Ich bin 40 jahre alt.
Ich wohne in England.
I knew GCSE German would come in useful one day!
I would cry if you served cake with vegetables in (yes, carrot cake and courgette cake I am looking at you) it's just WRONG.

musicismylife Thu 29-Nov-12 12:29:08

What did you say in Dutch that you couldn't have said in English?

firemansamisnormansdad Thu 29-Nov-12 12:32:03

Someone once taught me the Dutch for FO and die so you could teach this to Alpha Mums and tell them it's the Dutch for "You're a cool dude" and see what happens. There are many Alpha mums in my DCs school too. It's all about self-esteem so if showing off about buying nail varnish in Selfridges makes them happy then good luck to them.

musicismylife Thu 29-Nov-12 12:37:24

Silver, if you apologise for her terrible behaviour, that will give her the green light to 'up the ante' next time. What you need to do is grow some balls bollocks and tell her that you cannot believe she would invite you around and behave like this. She is a bitch, a manipulative bitch. If that had been me, I would have given her something to cry about after saying my piece to her <<<puffs chest out and roars>>>

minouminou Thu 29-Nov-12 12:38:41

We've got a trainee alpha wannabee (that's how crap she is at being alpha) at DS' school.

Her DS was in my DS' class last year. DS had his birthday a few weeks after the start of the term. She asked me, after his birthday party had been and gone, when his birthday actually was. I didn't know her, or her DS, so didn't invite them - no reason, other than the fact that I just didn't know them!

She looked distressed when I told her the date (as it was a couple of weeks in the past), but I thought no more of it.

A week or so later, she collared DP and asked him when DS' birthday was, and again, seemed shaken when our answers corroborated!

It seems her DS didn't get enough invites to things, so she threw a few shitfits, dissolved into tears, and her new schoolgate friends rallied round and made sure he had a few more playdates, and that she got invited to more gatherings.

Fast forward a few weeks, and apparently when another mum suggested inviting a few other mums along to something, crap alpha mum protested, as she wanted to keep the gatherings "exclusive".


I had one real conversation with her, during which she prompted me to identify and bitch about the parents I thought were pushy (I declined), then tried to get me to bitch about a mutual friend and her son.

I declined, and haven't spoken to her since. I don't so much smile and wave as look blank and turn away.

SilverBaubles33 Thu 29-Nov-12 16:26:33

Hey music sorry not to answer you earlier, I was at a coffee morning laughing till my jeans burst eating non-veg cake and meeting some mums who don't need flowers and hugs just for getting dressed every morning... I wish!

I said earlier about the Dutch thing, it's gone now!

fireman it's a great language for swearing, the sounds are very throaty and angry-sounding. There's a great word which I am not sure how to spell 'glotzak' which has lovely harsh sounds and means the bag of skin that carries an animals trsticles. It's a great insult, usually for a man, but since yesterday also for a Dramallama!

LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 16:31:20

minou Og God, your post sent shivers down my spine. I know Mums like that...WTAF is wrong with them - they are clearly genuinely disturbed, and emotionally fecked-up.

And, of course the problem is rarely, if ever, does anyone turn on them and announce incredulously "Oh my God, I can't believe a grown adult would do/say such a thing! Do you realise how totally unacceptable and inappropriate your behaviour is? Do you? Do you?'

No...sadly, we're all too polite (and a bit scared of them) so just smile blankly, and hurry in the other direction.

LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 16:34:43

On no...Silver I think...I think...I feel intimidated and inferior by your school-girl German conversation [sniffs]

I think I need some hugs and lost of gushy attention to make me feel a ickle bit better...yes, I really think I do...[sniffs some more]

[tries to look weepy and woebegone...looks round for obliging MN-etters to give her gushy-hugs...realises there's none forthcoming...also realises she's acting like a twunt...wipes eyes, decides to act like an adult again...puts kettle on]

Badvocsanta Thu 29-Nov-12 16:39:54

Hahahahahahaha good job I didn't unleash my even better schoolgirl French on you then would be a mess of despair and neediness by now smile
It would have been a DISAsTER if I had been there op...whenever I hear Dutch I always ALWAYS get a mental picture of the Swedish chef from the muppets wafting a rubber children around and then get the giggles smile
Hurdy gurdy vurdy.....
(Yes yes I know that's Swedish and not Dutch...I didn't say it made sense!)
But I have a feeling I am a bit older than some of you....sad

ZZZenAgain Thu 29-Nov-12 16:46:21

the woman who burst into tears because you spoke Dutch at her coffee morning sounds bonkers. What a way to behave! She ruined her own coffee morning.

LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 17:12:39

Some people (even grown ups) simply can't bear for attention to ever be diverted away from them.

These sort of people genuinely think that because they're hosting an event at their house, then basically everyone has to sit round and pay homage to them, and wait attendence on them. Odd, but true.

DD1 has a friend, who has shown exactly the same sort of tendencies since she was about 4. She's much given to spontaneous crying, huffing and throwing herself on the floor if she feels that the situation isn't completely under her control.

At DD1's 7th birthday party, this little madam girl collared DD1, insisted they sneak up into her bedroom, and then she started writing nasty notes about other little girls at the party. DD1 just wanted to re-join her friends at her own party.

When I discovered what was going on - I marched them both downstairs, with a flea in their ear.

5 minutes later, DD1 raced inside, panicking because this little madam girl had announced she wasn't going to stay at DD1's 'stupid party' and was going to walk home shock

I raced outside in a panic (we live on the main village high street, and it's quite busy traffic) to find Madam, standing at the end of the drive, pouting and in tears, with several other of DD1's friends standing round her, trying to persude her to stay...

I descended like the Wrath of God on Madam, told her in no uncertain terms what I thought of such rude, childish behaviour and marched her back inside, before calling her Mum to come and collect her, early.

I fully expect that Madam will grow up to be exactly the sort of useless sack of shit, who cries at their own coffee morning hmm

CockyPants Thu 29-Nov-12 17:24:48

LaQueen, please may I be your friend? Or would you like to come and punch the alphas mums at DDs school? They are currently fighting over teachers Xmas gift...

SilverBaubles33 Thu 29-Nov-12 17:26:58

My brothers girlfriend is Swedish. When she came to stay with us in Holland, she did all like this confused at the signs for bicycle (if course, in Holland there are many!). We discover that in Holland, fiets means bicycle, in Sweden it mean c*nt! So we have a happy week stealing signs for her that say (to her) "park your c*nt here" "here fill up your motor c*nt" "no c*nts allowed". Not a joke to share with her in law parents.

Now in my imagination, I told that story yesterday to the guests of Dramallama before I poo in the sink, take back my expensive flowers and go to LaQueens house for gin and fun with all of you.

I have met such women in America, they are afraid to be honest about what they want so they think to cry and pout makes them too adorable to refuse. It's not a good look on anyone who has begin menstruation.

CockyPants Thu 29-Nov-12 17:27:57

PTA mums here need a punch too

CockyPants Thu 29-Nov-12 17:29:28

Silver you are so funny, no wonder the alphas are quaking cos they're shit.
Clunge kicks all round.

Lougle Thu 29-Nov-12 18:05:06

I hate the school gate stuff. I find the 10 minutes waiting for DD2 to come out of class really quite excruciating. I never know what to say, and have a combined 'I really should be making an effort' and 'I wish this was over' feeling every single day.

Fortunately the Alpha Mum's in DD2's school are quite low key, because all the true Alphas send their children to the school in the next village wink

honeytea Thu 29-Nov-12 18:09:11

Silver the Swedish word for cunt is fitta (just incase you meet a Swedish alpha mum and you need to use the word cunt when talking to her)

rainrainandmorerain Thu 29-Nov-12 18:39:25

Wow. Just wow.

I have no idea what a coffee morning involves and I have no desire to know. If i ever meet an Alpha mum, I'll run like the wind.

i am baffled by all the people who think that talking Dutch to a Dutch lady when everyone else speaks only english is rude. Isn't it being friendly to the Dutch mum? Wouldn't it be weird to say you lived there and then either lie and say you never learned any or you did, but were going to refuse to speak it?

Maybe it's just a monoglot culture. I'm in Wales, most social things involve people dipping in and out of welsh. it is totally normal and not weird. Actually in my bf group there were 2 polish mums who spoke (I guess) Polish to each other. It would never ever occur to me that this was rude, or to get upset about it.

Caerlaverock Thu 29-Nov-12 19:29:39

Sometimes I think I live in a parallel universe to mn crazy land

LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 19:50:14

If I was in a social group, and a couple of people chatted a bit in another language, I wouldn't be remotely perturbed. I'm all for a bit of variety, me smile

But, I also don't understand people who mope at social gatherings, and think that everyone should make an effort to include them...these people are such feckin hard work angry

Here's an idea...stop pouting, stop thinking the world owes you a favour, stop thinking you deserve speshul attention, and why don't you make a bleddy effort to include yourself eh? Eh?

LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 19:52:17

Cocky of course, Sweetie...but I don't do fisticuffs...withering humour, is more my favoured line of attack wink

SilverBaubles33 Thu 29-Nov-12 19:52:18

Cockypants! You have to imagine I am looking at you over my glasses with my fingers held just a little way start.


I was THAT close to asking a different mum this evening what a clunge kick was, I imagined like a lunge, something to do in the gym. I was imagining high fives, high kicks, "clunge kicks all round" like a celebration dance.

Instead, I googled.

I might have been starting another thread here tonight...

I like it even more than Dramallama!

Caerlaverock Thu 29-Nov-12 19:53:28

La queen you need to meet up with silver baubles and kick some sad sack of shit ass

LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 20:05:34

Cav we could hire ourselves out...anyone got some sad sacks of shit clogging up their coffee mornings? We'll kick all that weepy, needy, psycho shit right outta 'em grin

Caerlaverock Thu 29-Nov-12 20:09:51

Yes, and we could sneer at their feature walls for good measure

LaQueen Thu 29-Nov-12 20:12:25

Oh, Hell yeah...and take the piss out of their Twigs and Pebbly shit debacle, too...

I'd charge double-time when I have PMS, because then I am just mad, bad and frankly dangerous to know...[cracks knuckles...]

Caerlaverock Thu 29-Nov-12 20:16:00

And their 'stay calm and make cupcakes' prints

SilverBaubles33 Thu 29-Nov-12 20:18:22

We ruthlessly attend their coffee mornings and make polite chat about holidays and how beautifully the UK hosted the Olympics in several different languages.

This makes them sob hysterically with unresolved childhood sadness and need for attention.

When they are crying, we quickly poo in the sink and do a celebration clunge kick before jumping into the waiting car.

Like vigilantes but with better cake.

TheAccidentalExhibitionist Thu 29-Nov-12 20:31:19

Gad, we have Alpha mums here too (ex-pat community).

Coffee mornings and cake sales and exercise classes nearly every day.
Unspoken rules are to chat about make-up, nails, hair and the brilliantly clever DC. Other acceptable topics are baking and clothes shopping.

DO NOT speak about feelings or previous work, do not share anything private.

Do not swear, moan about your kids, complain about your DH.

DH is absolute priority and mustn't lift a finger around the house.

Break these rules at your peril.

Fucking awful. I nod and wave but when I come into contact with them, I literally can't stop swearing, moaning about DS or telling obscene tales from when I was last pissed. Brings out the devil in me. Brings out the cats bums faces on them.

minouminou Thu 29-Nov-12 21:27:27


NigellasGuest Thu 29-Nov-12 21:33:13

can someone tell me what is an Alpha mum?

TheAccidentalExhibitionist Thu 29-Nov-12 21:39:28

Mums who think they are top dogs.

NigellasGuest Thu 29-Nov-12 21:45:16

but they sound kinda needy with it

BegoniaBampot Thu 29-Nov-12 21:50:18

It all sounds bonkers but maybe she is just having a shitty time of it and her reaction was little do with you or she is a complete attention seeking loon. All these women (apart from Dutch on) have now been labelled the same and given the title 'alpha mums' when it's entirely possible they are just nice women. The way this thread has turned with the sneering at anyone deemed an alpha mum (in your opinion) sounds like you lot would give the alpha mums a good run for their money.

kc77 Thu 29-Nov-12 22:06:02

'We ruthlessly attend their coffee mornings and make polite chat about holidays and how beautifully the UK hosted the Olympics in several different languages.

This makes them sob hysterically with unresolved childhood sadness and need for attention.

When they are crying, we quickly poo in the sink and do a celebration clunge kick before jumping into the waiting car.

Like vigilantes but with better cake.'

Silver, I am sitting here with tears rolling down my face, I can't stop laughing smile

PurpleHeadedMountain Thu 29-Nov-12 22:14:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

goralka Thu 29-Nov-12 22:15:03

When they are crying, we quickly poo in the sink and do a celebration clunge kick before jumping into the waiting car
grin love it

MrsWembley Thu 29-Nov-12 22:21:57

Begonia, have you read the whole thread. No-one is sneering at anyone who doesn't deserve it.

These mums have called themselves Alphas. This particular one cried at her own coffee morning and didn't apologise to her guest for making her feel uncomfortable.

I, personally, cannot imagine any greater social faux pas than making a guest feel unwanted and then asking her to leave for no other reason than she made me feel like she was competing with me (completely unsubstantiated, btw)!

If the Alpha was having a bad day/week then the acceptable thing to do when caught out is to laugh and apologise and talk through it, not necessarily about it, but to get past it, get beyond the tears. To make her guest feel like she has done something to apologise for is soooo rude, I cannot fathom the sheer bloody nerve of anyone even thinking they could get away with it! Obviously her friends have been facilitating this behaviour and now it has become normal.


BegoniaBampot Thu 29-Nov-12 22:36:39

No, I don't know that all these mums call themselves Alpha mums and neither do you. And this seems to have happened just the other day, who knows how it will pan out and who will make apologies or whatever. If you don't think there has been a lot of sneering on this thread (I possibly have too) of mums who others perceive as alphas then maybe we are reading different threads. And save your cross face for someone who cares.

BegoniaBampot Thu 29-Nov-12 22:40:03

And the OP has given us a tiny snap shot from her point of view and very amusing it has been too. But I'd take it all with a pinch of salt.

SilverBaubles33 Thu 29-Nov-12 22:51:56

Oh dear Begonia, one of them told me that, she likened it to soccer moms. It may well be that she was using irony which I missed, but that was the phrase she used.

I was asked to leave a home for the reasons we've all discussed. It happened yesterday, I felt horrible and worried and some lovely ladies gave made me laugh and put it in petspective.

I was going to apologise, now I'm not sure why I should, but I will reserve that right until we meet again on Saturday at a school sport event.

If there has been any sneering on this thread that has personally offended you, please accept my apologies.

In the scheme of things, it's a frivolous discussion and we are now being very silly. I believe the time to wring our hands and wonder why has passed.

I personally have no wish to be a Dramallama, I'm having a virtual coffee morning with some funny ladies. Please join us, there is sat-on cake from Waitrose and some carrot cake to annoy others!

MrsWembley Fri 30-Nov-12 01:51:21

Begonia, if you don't care then go away, there's a doll.

Thank-you, Silver, I'll have some carrot cake partly coz it winds DP up

BegoniaBampot Fri 30-Nov-12 08:07:17

Oh we'll at least you've stopped with the angry faces, that's progress.

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved Fri 30-Nov-12 09:24:08

Oh dammit, have I come too late for the cake & swearing? Sits down in middle of thread sobbing hysterically. Waaaaaah, gather round girlies, gather round for group hugs ...

Janeatthebarre Fri 30-Nov-12 10:17:28

Seriously Begonia how can you describe them as 'just nice women'? They sound like they escaped from Rydell High and wandered into 21st century Britain by mistake.

ZZZenAgain Fri 30-Nov-12 10:24:29

what would a nice woman do if she turns up to a coffee morning, the hostess starts crying in her kitchen and a woman who is new to these mornings walks in on this situation to hear she is the cause of it because she spoke Dutch to a Dutch woman who was there and generally makes hostess feel insecure simply because she is who she is? Would this nice woman tell the new woman to leave?

I don't think so. If you are a hostess you have to pull yourself together and deal with things, see to it that your guests feel welcome, and if you need to, cry when everyone has left. If you are not yet capable of doing that, don't invite people round till you can cope. I have no time for a woman crying over such a silly thing, it is ridiculous. It was shoddy behaviour to make a guest feel unwelcome and rude of the other women to tell OP here to leave.

SilverBaubles33 Fri 30-Nov-12 10:26:51

Double, no it's open house all day- courgette, carrot or Dutch appeltaart....

High kicks and tower of Babel in the salon, unhinged wailing and sink-centred activity in the kitchen.

You're very welcome either way!

Jane - yes, Rydell! Shall we put on a Grease DVD for the overtired ladies??

ZZZenAgain Fri 30-Nov-12 10:28:44

Dutch appeltaart is very nice but I'll try the courgette. Have been thinkin g of making one of those for a while now but just doesn't sound right to me - courgette and cake. However if someone else is making it, I'm in.

SilverBaubles33 Fri 30-Nov-12 10:31:36

ZZZ am setting you up in the entrance hall to give etiquette and sense briefings to all the guests, if you don't mind. I daren't leave Cockypants on her own.

I'll send you cake and gluhwein at intervals...

BegoniaBampot Fri 30-Nov-12 10:34:44

I don't think the OP necessarily did anything wrong and she would be crazy to offer a grovelling apology if she felt she wasn't in the wrong and it does all sound weird and bonkers. but no, I wouldn't necessarily write off all these women as being nasty, weirdo alpha mums on the say so of one person and a few posts. Maybe these women were flummoxed as how to deal with this weird situation as well and thought it would be better all round if the OP just left to minimise things. It didn't have to be them standing pointing her out the door with disapproving looks on their faces telling her never to darken their coffee morning doorsteps again. But then I don't take everything someone says on mumsnet as gospel and think there might be another spin on things.

ZZZenAgain Fri 30-Nov-12 10:38:28

I do sound draconian! Ooh, cake and gluhwein sounds like me. I can also be very stern it is ture but I will need a chair and Begonia to keep me company. I will also get her to test the cakes before I eat them

Janeatthebarre Fri 30-Nov-12 10:39:32

If they were asking her to leave in an apologetic "sorry, it might be best if you went" way, surely one of them would have contacted her afterwards to clarify what was going on and assure her it wasn't her fault.

Silver yy to the Grease DVD. I'll get out my leather trousers!!

ZZZenAgain Fri 30-Nov-12 10:41:19

don't forget your heeled clogs Jane and the big hair otherwise you might not get past me.

No one will get past me if I am having too much of that cake though

BegoniaBampot Fri 30-Nov-12 10:48:50

Did someone mention cake...

Marzipanface Fri 30-Nov-12 10:50:59

What bizarre behaviour! Are you sure you didn't see it coming? If not, this woman clearly feels threatened by you and is basically acting like a child.

You shouldn't be apologising for her being so rude and throwing you out of her home.

Move on and see if you can make other friends.

ZZZenAgain Fri 30-Nov-12 10:53:33

you got here Begonia. Let's make that two chairs, two plates of cake and two barrels of gluhwein. We're set

Jo2508 Fri 30-Nov-12 10:56:18

Hi, I'm new on mumsnet and have been a bit of a lurker on some of the forums, but I just had to post on this thread, it's absolutely hysterical.
Silver, you sound like someone I'd love to have a coffee morning with - I live in Holland and speak very bad Dutch, and marginally less appalling French (or is that me just boasting?), but god forbid we make the worst social transgression of speaking anything other than the Queen's finest English.
This woman and her friends are clearly very bored and have far too much time on their hands.
I am moving back to England next year and I hope I meet people like you rather than this group of ladies bunch of nutters you have had the misfortune of coming into contact with.
I think you should throw pepernoten at them next time you see them smile

cheekybaubles Fri 30-Nov-12 11:22:41

First rule of alpha mums club.......

ZZZenAgain Fri 30-Nov-12 11:34:08

welcome to MN Jo. Just had to do a quick check of the kitchen since we have another Dutch speaker, no one is in tears though, they are all hitting the cake.

What are pepernoten? So we can stock them.

Jo2508 Fri 30-Nov-12 12:41:38

Thanks Zen (may I call you that?!) - as long as the cake isn't Dutch appeltaart, I'm in!
Pepernoten are little biscuits that look a bit like brown sheep droppings (see here for a visual example and are bloody everywhere this time of year.

Rudolphstolemycarrots Fri 30-Nov-12 12:48:16

Either she is feeling a bit insecure or you are competitive. Either way, if you want to move forward and smooth the waters, you could tell her that she's really popular, has a gorgeous house, lovely dcs, kind husband, she's thoughtful and generous etc. All these things are true.

firemansamisnormansdad Fri 30-Nov-12 13:30:21

begonia is not an altruistic person. Best take what she says with a dab of irony.

thewashfairy Fri 30-Nov-12 13:53:58

hello,can I join in? I have pure Dutch blood coursing through my vains..... and have have a big bag of pepernoten IN my house (send by my lovely Dsis) I also have chocolade letters ! <so not sharing though> wink

BegoniaBampot Fri 30-Nov-12 14:11:12

No you are right, I'm not altruwhatsitsname. I'm also not a sheep that believes everything I read on tinternet to the point of slagging off a bunch of women who could be perfectly nice on the say so some stranger. no offence Silver, I don't necessarily doubt your version or think you did anything wrong. Can I still have some cake though...

crunchbag Fri 30-Nov-12 14:16:13

silver, it's klootzak not glotzak wink

(it's another word for scrotum but your translation sounded sweeter)

ZZZenAgain Fri 30-Nov-12 14:28:46

I love the way we are learning Dutch on this thread

NotWilliamBoyd Fri 30-Nov-12 14:29:15

Would it be very wrong of me to adopt klootzak as a handy swearword? (I don't speak Dutch) - it just sounds fabulous!

LaQueen Fri 30-Nov-12 14:35:05

You know, I still can't get over a grown woman, having so little pride or self dignity that she'd burst into tears at the drop of a hat, over some imagined slight...and another thing...ooooh, there's cake, now that's much more interesting [grabs some]

Katisha Fri 30-Nov-12 14:38:29

<Barges in for cake>
I'm frankly appalled that none of the A-team bothered to ring and apologise actually. On what planet do you throw someone out of a coffee morning?

kerala Fri 30-Nov-12 14:40:11

The comment someone made upthread about having a Dutch themed coffee morning to really set her off was one of the funniest things Ive read for a while grin

BegoniaBampot Fri 30-Nov-12 14:41:56

Was a member of a Dutch club once, does that count? Isn't it SinterKlass time or whatever they call it? Still go a bit oooer at the black and white minstrel look a likes - what's that all about?

SilverBaubles33 Fri 30-Nov-12 15:55:34

Godverdomme! Sorry I've been upstairs putting on my clogs and leather trousers, look at the time! Hope you've all had fun, try not to wake up ZZZen and Begonia in the hall on your way out. How am I going to get that gluhwein out of the carpet?

NotWilliam - yes, it's lovely!

Katisha, sorry, just the taart left, all the courgette got eaten by La Queen

crunch bag, thanks, that's the problem with learning things for playground swearing not adult biological usage!

Yes, Sinterklaas next week, have ordered my chocolate letters, T for 'trut'... guess whose shoe that might go in. Actually, I did see the lady in question from my car this morning and she waved hello, so who knows how it will be watching the match tomorrow. My big concern right now is not to freeze!

Begonia, am happy to host a coffee morning anytime, but not getting into a Zwaarte Piet debate - that's one of the few times I've seen usually tolerant Nederlanders get in a real sweat and very upset.

kerala - here too, my husband has been texting me for two days with increasingly surreal ideas for it.

I wish everyone a warm and peaceful weekend, and thank you again for turning my week on its head and giving me such laughs.

I'm going to have to scoop up the little ZZZs and Begonias on the school run too, aren't I? Put a blanket on them, someone....

crunchbag Fri 30-Nov-12 16:13:39

grin at adult biological usage

I wouldn't waste chocolate on trut, maybe get her some dubbelzoute drop and watch her facial expression......

SilverBaubles33 Fri 30-Nov-12 16:22:06

Ik hou van doubbelzoute, but then I think I have an adult biological love of salt.

Am SOO late for the school run yippee, can hide in my car under scarf and huge collar...

toomuchmonthatendofthemoney Fri 30-Nov-12 16:51:11

Enjoyed this thread.

They sound bonkers like conkers, move on move on to saner pastures.

I would love some cake .....

Oh I am so glad I found this thread!

toomuchmonthatendofthemoney Fri 30-Nov-12 17:27:49

Had to come back to throw a special grin smiley at this thread for St Andrews Day. Imagine the conniptions if we started speaking Gaelic at her coffee morning!!

Screaminabdabs Fri 30-Nov-12 17:58:13

Gotta be an MN Classic, surely?

mignonette Fri 30-Nov-12 18:04:15

Do you really need to be friends with school gate parents or socialise with them, truly? Have never understood this. Surely the best thing to do is smile, chat politely at the gate and whenever you have to interact then go home and get on with your own life and friends that you have chosen to be around rather than thrown together with by circumstance?

And if you need to make a few more friends it will happen naturally via a broader range of child centred activities than just school. By definition the school gate 'alpha' mothers often seem to have and offer a very insular, limited and conditional kind of 'friendship'.

SilverBaubles33 Fri 30-Nov-12 18:09:04

too much and hearts delighted to meet you, sorry you missed all the fun, we should do this every week, perhaps a little less publicly!

Perhaps we'll have another next week, I need to make FAR more cake and gallons more gluhwein.

Do all come, we must wear kilts and special high-heeled seasonal ruby-encrusted clunge kickers. We can do wild reeling and get thoroughly giddy.

Salty liquorice for anyone who falls over.

OK, on to the saner pastures as advised. That might not be round here though!

SilverBaubles33 Fri 30-Nov-12 18:16:16

mignonette no of course not, you're absolutely right. Because they are the sporty mums and my girls do sports, I wanted to get to know them so we can share lifts for away games, things like that.

Because I've always worked, I probably got a bit over-excited at the thought of making friends at school.

Sensible words from you though, and I'm grateful to her for sparking off a very diverting exchange here.

mignonette Fri 30-Nov-12 18:18:34

Accompany your child to sports meets and it will happen naturally. Also there are other schools that your DD may compete with/against and she may well find friends there too as will you.

Good luck!

LaQueen Fri 30-Nov-12 18:32:44

Agree with mignonette

When our DD1 started school I smiled and chatted politely with all the other new mums. Over a few months I realised I had little in common with most of them, but genuinely liked 4 of them so I fostered friendships with them.

5 years later, and I'm good friends with the same 4 mums, but only ever really smile and nod at all the others.

I confess, when DD2 started school I didn't even really try to get to know the Mums in her class, because I felt I had more than enough friends, already blush

LaQueen Fri 30-Nov-12 18:35:48

And, my biggest social circle is now comprised of other women I've met through those 3-4 Mums at school...eventhough these other women aren't connected to the DD's school.

But because they're good friends of good friends - it stands to reason that I would probably like them a lot, too (and they'd like me). We all have similar outlooks, sense of humour, interests etc.

When we moved here 9 years ago I didn't know a soul. Now I have a circle of about 10-12 girlfriends that all live locally smile

GreenEggsAndNichts Fri 30-Nov-12 18:58:46

I have a huge jar of speculoos spread I imported myself which I can contribute towards the proceedings. mm. We also have several stollen hmm to appease my German DH's Christmas cravings, but we can call it kerstol if that helps it fit the theme better.

I would also like to know what happens tomorrow at the sporting event, if anything at all. smile

I agree with LaQueen, you're probably best just keeping in touch regularly with the mums you get on with, and leaving the drama queens to their own devices.

anniewoo Fri 30-Nov-12 19:04:11

She sounds like a Drama Queen, AVOID.

crunchbag Fri 30-Nov-12 19:05:38

I predict tantrum dramas on the sports field......

I have chocoladeletters, pepernoten, kruidnoten, speculaas and speculaaskruiden (bedankt mam en pap) and i have just made amandelspijs for the gevulde speculaas and banketletter.

You are al welcome on the 5th for a bakkie koffie en gebak smile

SilverBaubles33 Fri 30-Nov-12 19:35:07

crunchbag hoera!

Ik wil kruidnoten, AUB. En mag ik een slokje van je diet coke?!

crunchbag Fri 30-Nov-12 19:41:14

cola light you mean.

Aboutlastnight Fri 30-Nov-12 19:42:41

I have never thought if it as rude if frutnds speak in their language at a social event!
I have several German friends who will chat in German but segue effortlessly into English if someone else joins the conversation. It's pretty impressive.

It must be tiring speaking a second language all the time and I suppose it's a relief to speak mother tongue when the opportunity arises.

These women need to get out more, it's ridiculous Griends women crying over coffee hmm

MrsWembley Fri 30-Nov-12 19:44:33

Can't believe I've been so busy all day and missed more cake.sad

<checks for crumbs from the bit eaten in the middle of the night>

Has Begonia calmed down now?wink

SilverBaubles33 Fri 30-Nov-12 20:17:31

crunchbag nog een mal! Actually, vodka tonic is what I mean...

Greeneggs, please come for coffee, with your speculoos. I have spoons.

About it's bloody exhausting! My hallway is trashed, I've got cake crumbs everywhere and several unclaimed drunk women in leather trousers doing 'Greased Lightening' down the stairs.

Happily, my sink is clear and nobody has cried.

mrsW yes, Zzzen got her squiffy on gluhwein and they've gone into town to find Alphas to kick in. shhh, there's a cake hidden fir you under the sink, you've had a long day, are those flowers for me...

Is it normal, by the way un just a few days to feel throat I suddenly ket real and very funny new chums??!

Edma Fri 30-Nov-12 20:47:53

I know it was aaaaaages ago, but I am completely gobsmacked that a lot of posters thought that you had been rude for speaking Dutch. How bizarre.

Jo2508 Fri 30-Nov-12 21:12:14

Ik wil ook gluwein hebben aub, maar geen meer pepernoten!!! Sucess morgen...

Viviennemary Fri 30-Nov-12 21:25:58

I do think it's a little bit rude to talk in a different language at a social event unless one person does not speak the common language at all. It wouldn't normally be done at a social event with several people there who didn't speak that language at all.

SilverBaubles33 Fri 30-Nov-12 22:46:42

Vivienne Maybe in the UK that's the case? Certainly in most of the schools I attended and places I worked, there were often several conversations going in in several languages at the same time.

Not a big deal, and very much the norm, socially and professionally. Especially in Europe. Belgium, for example, has three official languages plus most people speak English and have some German too.

edma I know!! I was a little surprised that it was seen as showing off rather than being polite and welcoming. Hey ho.

Jo dank u wel!

Ik kan ook een beetje Nederlands! Ik woonde in Amsterdam bijna vijf jaren.

But wow does my autocorrect ever hate Dutch grin

Silver and everyone - this thread feels like yet another new spiritual home - like the crap working mums thread. smilesmilesmilesmile

And surely here on good old MN we can je/jij rather than U, hoor?

CatchingMockingbirds Fri 30-Nov-12 23:52:31

hmm she called you an effin bitch and kicked you out of her house - do not apologise! If anything she should be apologising to you, and thanking you for making her other guest feel at ease when she was struggling with the conversation in English.

CatchingMockingbirds Fri 30-Nov-12 23:52:55

Infact, she should be bringing you bloody flowers grin

ninah Fri 30-Nov-12 23:56:50

i'm having an epsilon cheese n wine if you're interested

BegoniaBampot Sat 01-Dec-12 00:40:22

Don't know whether to be offended that people are talking about me as though I'm not here or just to eat some more cake...

RawShark Sat 01-Dec-12 06:50:55

I thought the same thing as robot i.e. that OP was just using Alpha MUm's own terminology. And I didn;t pick up that the OP had a competitive streak - why is that whenever anyone says they have a high-powered job people feel the need to slap them back down - they are not saying it is a harder job or more worthwhile than anyone elses? OP gave many positives to the "aplha" mum other than the description of "alpha"mum (however this is a good way of giving an instant picture of the kind of cliqueness involved!)

And while it may have been a bit rude to speak in Dutch it isn't as though the mum running the coffee morning didn't have friends there.

I would invite "alpha" mum, on her own, for a coffee in a cafe and say to her you've never meant to give her the impression you're competing with her, in fact sometimes, silly me, you've thought she was competing with you. If she's a grown up you'll move on and laugh about it , if not , well, you can just smile and nod to each other .

RawShark Sat 01-Dec-12 06:55:41

Ah as ever I forget to read to end of thread before poting.

Sorry I was too late for the Waitrose sat-on cake

anniewoo Sat 01-Dec-12 08:25:20

I agree with CatchingMockingBirds. She is a dtama queen who loves having her audience (of other mums who consider her Alpha mum) and you stole her thunder.playground stuff, you don't need it.

RaspberrysAndIcecream Sat 01-Dec-12 09:12:52

I have tears rolling down my cheeks from laughing so much (not because u spoke Dutch & ruined my coffee morning! grin))

Alpha mum doesn't sound very Alpha - she sounds feckin nuts!!!!

I think if u wanted to apologise, then word it along the lines of I'm sorry for any offence caused.

Ie you're sorry she's been offended but actually u didn't do anything wrong - so get lost u crazy lady. It just may make the school gates less of a gauntlet - especially if it's a small school.

Thanku so much for a great thread tho - pooing in sinks, eating cake, drinking coffee & putting Dutch chocolate in shoes. Only on mn!! grin

Proudnscaryvirginmary Sat 01-Dec-12 09:38:48

I've said this before and I'll say it again <bores self>...

I have never, in 11 years of parenthood - and living in what would be perceived by the media as Pushy Mum/Yummy Mummy City Central - witnessed the shit I've seen on Mumsnet about bitchy/insane 'alpha' mothers.

Why is that?

Aboutlastnight Sat 01-Dec-12 09:52:46


Perhaps you're the Alpha mummy


FergusSingsTheBlues Sat 01-Dec-12 09:59:40

At school, my chums and i were proud to be fact we ignored alphas and considered them to be the misfits grin.

maybe mn should make a 1. Are you on PTA, 2. Do you wear boden.....etc.

Proudnscaryvirginmary Sat 01-Dec-12 10:03:45

Ha ha!! Touche!

Buddhastic Sat 01-Dec-12 12:18:50

Aaah Klootzak is 'bawbag' in Scots. I'll use that grin

SilverBaubles33 Sat 01-Dec-12 12:34:40

Hello all,

So I went to the match and A caught me in the car park and asked if she could speak to me. It turns out that the head of games had put one of my girls in her daughter's position for a match last week and her child had been very upset about it and so had she.

That was it!

All that worry and all those words on here (though it was a funny conversation).

Anyway, she said she was sorry about how she'd behaved and I said I was sorry she'd been upset and thought better not to mention the pooing and clunge kicking and all the other fun we've had.

She thought that I had somehow engineered this change, and was a bit surprised when I told her I wasn't even sure what position my daughter plays (they are almost 16, FFS) and that I was completely unaware of it. Also turns out she'd played this sport in her youth and regretted having to give it up, I wan't very surprised to hear that, but am also keeping a sensible distance from all that unresolved angst.

The head of games said that she was going to leave my daughter in that position and I asked her to please let A know personally, so at least if she takes it badly, she can do so at the correct person!

All very odd indeed, but at least I can stop wondering what I did. And thank you all once again, really! I will go back to reading the book and cooking threads now and think about going freelance as light relief!!!

Lovely, cold, sunny weekends to you all!

GreenEggsAndNichts Sat 01-Dec-12 13:27:50

Well. That answers that.

It does show you that that is how she handles that sort of situation, though. Definitely into drama queen category. Tolerable in small doses but probably best kept at arms length. smile

Aboutlastnight Sat 01-Dec-12 13:42:36

AlienRefluxLooksLikeSnow Sat 01-Dec-12 13:44:30

Blimey, tears, ruined coffee mornings, and all for that, yes, she is barking, keep a distance!

Katisha Sat 01-Dec-12 13:58:35

Do you think it really is that or is it the best she can come up with to explain her bizarre behaviour at the coffee morning?

ZZZenAgain Sat 01-Dec-12 14:54:35

she is a bit whacky but she is not a bad egg. It is hard not to get upset when your dc are upset. I suppose she had invited you to the coffee morning before her dd found out about the change of position and she was all wound up and tense before you got there, wondering how she was going to handle you.

I would give her another chance but at an arm's length

Is everyone else looking for an opportunity to use klootzsak?!

BegoniaBampot Sat 01-Dec-12 14:58:34

Hate the angst of kid's sports and all that guff. Never thought I'd ever be the kind of mum that could take offence and get my knickers in a twist over my kids sporting activities - did they get picked for the team, is the coach being a cunt, did they get sidelined etc. It's a minefield I tell ya! Why did they never warn us about this when we signed little Johhny up for footie when he was 4yrs.

SilverBaubles33 Sat 01-Dec-12 15:16:05

Yes, I think that is all it was! I watched her watching the match today, she was up and down the line, shouting and coaching, I was exhausted watching her! Another girl told my daughter she's been like that since they were six and the other parents can't say anything because she's so 'supportive' of the school sporting teams.


She said she was sure that I'd done it and in her words 'worked myself into a state' before her coffee thing and the Dutch thing was the last straw.

All the other stuff is in her head.

Our husbands had a great laugh though and have arranged to go for a pint over Christmas.

Holy fuck

Screaminabdabs Sat 01-Dec-12 15:16:37

Rather agree with Aboutlastnight.

Wait till both dds apply to the same Oxford college......grin Oh, I can't wait. Of course, top performance in sport wil matter...

MrsWembley Sat 01-Dec-12 18:31:34

Well, there's a big fat 'ohhhhhhh' coming from me.

Still think she's nuts, mind.


I was at a little girl's birthday party this afternoon, where at least half the room spoke Portuguese. And do you know what - no-one got upset at me for only speaking English...

ZZZenAgain Sun 02-Dec-12 09:32:31

actually when I said I would give her another chance, I think I was not telling the truth. I would greet her in a friendly fashion - and move away fast. I don't think I would really be giving her another chance, she sounds too unstable for my taste, I think she would be strenuous to be around.

LaQueen Sun 02-Dec-12 10:19:51

To be honest her explanation makes her sound even more of a loon...Avoid. Avoid. Avoid.

Life is too short to spend it mollycoddling these sort of fraught/demanding/insecure Muppets.

Luckily the world is full of easy-going, blithe and breezy Mums, who don't give a monkey's what position their DD plays in the school team. I'd strongly suggest spending your time with them...and let this Muppet fret and foam, and bite her knuckles to her heart's content...

LaQueen Sun 02-Dec-12 10:21:28

Silver and of course, the fact that she was certain that you had somehow manipulated your DD changing positions in the team very cleary indicates that this is the very sort of behaviour that she is perfectly capable of/has done in the past.

Avoid. Avoid. Avoid.

SugaricePlumFairy Sun 02-Dec-12 10:37:27

She is clearly as mad as a box of frogs! grin.

She probably has a list of her dd's competition pinned on her notice board with plans to exterminate them if they get in the way of her dd's path to the top! grin.

Steer clear at all costs!

Newshoesplease Sun 02-Dec-12 10:40:31

This sounds like a synopsis for "mean girls: the mums edition". grin

Screaminabdabs Sun 02-Dec-12 10:56:05

Hell, yes; there's a film waiting to be made. Mean girls grow up to be mummies...

MyNewVenture Sun 02-Dec-12 13:10:22

Few of OP's posts ring true to me - sounds like she is still digging her way out of the 'tubby' type comments in the OP. [Hmm]

Notafoodbabyanymore Sun 02-Dec-12 14:42:52

This thread has made me laugh, but it took so long to read that I missed all the cake. sad

Her explanation is stupid and she needs to grow up and get a life.

OP, steer clear!

EldritchCleavage Mon 03-Dec-12 11:36:34

Agree with LaQueen.

And *NewVenture, I think OP has explained that 'tubby' etc were not things she said or thought about the other mother, but things the other mother habitually said about herself.

CoteDAzur Mon 03-Dec-12 13:02:29

She is crazy. How exactly does your DD playing in a position she coveted for her DD ruin her coffee morning? hmm

LaQueen Mon 03-Dec-12 13:31:34

What sane parent with a life of their own would covet a position for their child in a school team?

My DD1 represents her school at netball...I have no feckin idea what any of the positions even are FFS?

EldritchCleavage Mon 03-Dec-12 15:23:14

Gosh I feel sorry for loony Mum's daughter though. Wonder if the daughter had to face tears and recriminations when she told her mother she'd lost her place in the side?

PickledInAPearTree Mon 03-Dec-12 17:20:26

Crying in your own coffee because someone spoke a bit of Dutch!


stormy week was your lady the one with the teeth? That thread was immense.

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