AIBU? Business leaflet order gone wrong!

(74 Posts)
nitrox Tue 27-Nov-12 22:11:22

Hi everyone,

Wasn't sure where to put this, but I love Mumsnet and would value any knowledge in this area.

Hoping for a little assistance please as I'm running out of things to attack this issue with.

I run my own small business and 6 months ago I ordered some leaflets to go with my items that I sell. I ordered the leaflets at 170gsm, received them, was very happy.

Just reordered a couple of weeks ago, wasn't sure what I needed as I'd forgotten the 'gsm' of my previous order. So I ordered 130gsm and emailed and said I wanted to same as I ordered before as I was very happy with them.

They emailed and said I ordered 170gsm and they would invoice me for the difference in price. I happily paid and waited the 10 days for the leaflets.

Leaflets arrive and they are paper thin and not card material like previous ones. This is important as I use them as a kind of supportive backing card for the slightly fragile item I send.

I've been discussing this with them for 6 days now. They are saying that on my first order then didn't have the 170gsm, and so they upgraded me fre of charge to 300gsm. They didn't inform me of this, I thought my order was 170gsm.

(thanks if you are still following)

So I've complained, been told I've got what I ordered.. the new leaflets are no good to me, and I've got 10,000 of them!

I've argued the facts over and over and they won't budge. The best they can offer is for me to pay £67 more + £25 shipping for them to re-make them at 300gsm. I really don't see why I should?

I have also had to order elsewhere as my stock was very low and with it being the Christmas sale period I didn't want to run out. So I've purchased 300gsm leaflets elsewhere for £154.

The problem order cost me £144, and now they want another £67 + £25.

Any help with this? I've requested a refund or a free reprint from them, but they are refusing, saying I have what I ordered.

I have the emails from me to them requesting the same as I ordered before, and them confirming my previous order was 170gsm, so based on that I ordered.

They have been messing me about and I can see it going round in circles. I've threatened small claims court and given then 7 days to refund or replace.

What else can I do? Please help..

Piffyonarock Tue 27-Nov-12 22:36:22

Hi Nitrox, I used to work in print buying and these sorts of disputes can turn into a bit of a nightmare. Do you have an account manager at the printers or someone you could arrange to meet with? Face to face might be better than e-mails and the phone if possible. If you have the evidence re them upgrading to 300gsm without telling you then they should find it hard to argue with it, and I think they should refund or replace. They need to look at their record keeping procedures so that they check on what was produced rather than what was on the original order if someone re-orders. I don't know the legalities if you do go to small claims, maybe someone on the legal boards would be better. I'd wait it out, they might come good rather than lose your business. Although it sounds like your alternative supplier would be cheaper on 300gsm anyway. Good luck!

Fakebook Tue 27-Nov-12 22:38:11

Name and shame?

nitrox Tue 27-Nov-12 22:47:24

I will name and shame once it's sorted, don't want them to see my thread just yet and the advice I will (hopefully) get.

piffyonarock
I spoke with an account manager today, he was very polite but was very much trying to blame me with regards to the order and trying to insist they were okay for what I need. Not sure how he seems to know my needs better than I do. We were at stalemate on the phone and he said he would try to come to a solution and get back to me by email this evening, which is when he offered for me to pay the difference and get the 300gsm.

I have the evidence yes. He emailed me yesterday and said that the order had been upgraded. I can past the email he sent:

This was before my telephone conversation and the sunsequent offer of the 'upgrade'.

*I just tried calling regarding your recent Flyer order, I have looked into this for you found the following.

On your first order placed back in April of this year (order ref EP-2422134424) you ordered 5000x DL Flyers on 170gsm Silk paper. However at the time our Factory did not have the available paper stock of 170gsm material to fulfil this order so they took the decision to upgrade the material used to 300gsm at no extra cost to yourself.

The decision was made to do this in order to avoid an excessive order delay as a goodwill gesture, it ultimately meant that there was no profit and likely cost us more to produce that what we charged you.

For your new order you specifically asked to order the same as you ordered last time which was the 170gsm Silk paper which is what we sent this time and what you paid for as last time.

I do however appreciate that we could have advised you better on this but we do rely on our customers to know exactly which specification they require in order to avoid problems like this. However as a goodwill gesture I will add a discount onto to your next order, please contact me when you’re ready to place another one so I can sort this for you.*

nitrox Tue 27-Nov-12 22:50:04

He is saying that I need to have known what to order hmm how am I meant to do that if they didn't inform me of that upgrade?

I don't want to let this drop, but never gone to Small Claims Court before, I have a feeling I will have to, can't see them budging.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 27-Nov-12 22:55:21

Honestly? I'm not sure this is anyone's fault. They should have told you they had changed your original order, but I guess as it was an upgrade they thought you would be chuffed and didn't bother.

You should know what gsm you needed - it seems it is sheer luck the first batch were to your liking.

This is bad luck, but I think you should know that card is around 300 gsm really.

nitrox Tue 27-Nov-12 23:01:00

The thing is I don't know blush

I've never ordered leaflets before, and the first batch I ordered were a smaller order that the thickness didn't matter as much, I used a card backer then.

Since having these I've done away with the card back as they were study enough on their own, and so I ordered 10,000 this time, thinking they would be the same.

I don't see how I was to know any different? confused

Trills Tue 27-Nov-12 23:03:13

You asked for the same as you ordered last time.

They looked at the order, it said 170.

They gave you 170.

You are disappointed, fair enough, but they gave you what you asked for. You asked for "what I ordered last time" That's what you got. What you ordered last time.

That said, can you PM me the name of the place that does 10,000 leaflets at 300gsm for £154?

Trills Tue 27-Nov-12 23:03:55

It is unfortunate that this happened but it is not a matter for court.

nitrox Tue 27-Nov-12 23:05:10

STRESSFREEPRINT.CO.UK

DL size, colour both sides, 300gsm, good reviews online.

I see what you are saying, but they aren't the same as what I ordered? I've not been told they upgraded them?

Trills Tue 27-Nov-12 23:11:11

You ordered "what I asked for last time", not "what I got last time". And you did get "what I asked for last time".

I know it's annoying and a mistake has been made but I think you have to let it go.

They offered to make the thicker ones for you at a reduced cost. From the sound of things they have only asked for the difference between prices, so if you gave the the £67 you'd be paying just the amount that 300gsm leaflets cost (£67 + what you originally paid), and getting the 170gsm ones for free. That's not bad customer service really.

They are the same as what you previously ordered.
BUT
They are not the same as you were previously given. If there were any grounds for complaint it would be that the first ones were too thick.

nitrox Tue 27-Nov-12 23:14:21

My exact email to them straight after my order was:

I've just re-ordered some more leaflets and want to make sure they are the same gsm as my previous order. I was very happy with the last ones.

Trills I'm sorry, but I don't agree. You are saying 'I should have know', why is that? I'm not a paper manufacturer or expert. I don't know what 170gsm is, all I know, or thought I knew, was that the leaflets I had last time were correct and I wanted them again. I don't think that is an unfair assumption to make.

I even emailed to say I want the same gsm as my previous order as they were correct for me.

I already have another 10,000 coming this week from the other printers as they were cheaper and have a good reputation. I didn't look around before as I was happy with my previous order.

Sallyingforth Tue 27-Nov-12 23:15:13

I think you would BU to push this.

The offer to redo them for the upgrade price will leave them out of pocket (again) and you will still have the thin ones as well which will be useful to you even if not for packing.

Trills Tue 27-Nov-12 23:15:28

Here's your scenario:

I order something that has to be made to order.
I receive the thing and there has been a mistake in communication and it is not right.
I ended up with something cheaper than the thing I wanted (I paid the cheaper price).
I can't send it back because it is made to order.
The company says that if I pay the difference between the cheaper thing and the thing I really wanted, plus postage, they will make me the thing I wanted.
The company has given me a cheap thing and an expensive thing, for the price of only the expensive thing.
I have received a cheap thing and an expensive thing for the price of just the expensive thing (plus two lots of postage).

That sounds pretty reasonable.

Thanks for the recommendation by the way - have you received your leaflets from them, was the quality good?

nitrox Tue 27-Nov-12 23:15:37

They did not tell me I was 'given' something different to what I 'ordered'.

Sorry, keep cross posting with you.

Trills Tue 27-Nov-12 23:17:34

We know they didn't tell you.

But all you are paying above the actual price of 300gsm leafets is an extra lot of postage.

That's actually very reasonable of them. You get 10,000 thin leaflets for £25. I'm sure you can make use of them.

nitrox Tue 27-Nov-12 23:18:45

Hoping to get them on Thursday Trills, I'll let you know.

I agree with what you say in priciple. The problem is, I have absolutely no requirement for the thinner and cheaper ones, they are useless to me.

Also, I've ended up paying £300 so far, between the two orders for something which should have only cost half that. Yes I have 10,000 new ones coming, but I have 10,000 useless ones too.

You can't honestly tell me, that is were you, you would be happy with this?

It might sounds petty, but the new leaflets aren't thick enough to support the product in the envelope, they are too thin and flimsy.

Vix07 Tue 27-Nov-12 23:19:29

Small Claims Court is not the way to go with this sort of thing, ask them for details of their Professional Indemnity Insurers as you wish to make a claim against them. Should be perfectly straightforward for them to sort out.

How did you decide on the paper for the very first set of leaflets without doing research?
Copier paper = 80gsm
Business cards = 350gsm
I don't think that's particularly specialist knowledge.

nitrox Tue 27-Nov-12 23:21:07

well the price will end up being £237 for the leaflets, so the thin ones will be costing me £92.. so they aren't cheap in that respect.

Not only that, they have kept me hanging about for 6 days and I've had to order elsewhere to make sure I got them in time.

I ordered in time, but that way 16 days ago now, and as far as I knew at the time was more than enough time to get the new order.

Trills Tue 27-Nov-12 23:21:38

I wouldn't be happy, but I'd accept that it's the sort of mistake that happens. I'd tell them that in future they should remember to make notes on what a customer had actually received, and I would have tried to negotiate the £67 a bit.

I would probably have gone grrr on AIBU, but I certainly wouldn't be talking about small claims court.

Buying in full from another company seems to be cutting off your nose to spite your face - you've paid £150ish for something that you could have paid under £100 for if you'd taken them up on their offer.

Trills Tue 27-Nov-12 23:22:13

X-posted, didn't realise they had kept you hanging about, that is very annoying.

nitrox Tue 27-Nov-12 23:24:16

Travelincolour I didn't mind what gsm they were as they were just application instructions, and I already used a greyboard backing card separate to the leaflets. As the business has grown and I wanted a more professional image I decided that I could use these on their own, hence why I reordered the same 'as before'.

So, I didn't look into gsm as I just needed any kind of cheap flyer. They turned out to be really good, but as far as I knew they were 170gsm.

I haven't ever need to know the gsp of copier paper or business cards.

I'm being truthful here, I'm not trying to scam them. I didn't know the gsm of paper.. the gsm isn't given in any laymans terms on their website, and I wasn't to know any different.

Illgetmycoat Tue 27-Nov-12 23:24:38

This does sound like a tangle and poor communication, to be honest, on both yours and the printer's parts.

To avoid this happening again either:

a) ask for a paperstock sample prior to print or
b) if you can afford it, get a wet proof

The print prices for 10,000 leaflets sound almost unbelievably low. I think you should just learn a valuable lesson and specify accurately next time.

RobotLover68 Tue 27-Nov-12 23:24:47

As an ex-print buyer myself (and I think I followed the story) I don't think you'll get very far with the small claims court - sorry, I do see where you're coming from but I also see where they're coming from - I think should cut your losses - going to small claims will cost you more money and you may not win

I would also suggest you don't name and shame as this could be libellous

nitrox Tue 27-Nov-12 23:25:01

vix07 do you think that is a possible solution?

I didn't know what else to say to them apart from the small claims court.

nitrox Tue 27-Nov-12 23:28:57

I'm not really into name and shame, I will leave a review online for others to see, but I don't want to burn any bridges yet.

I just want my flyers sad

I don't see how I haven't communicated well, sorry. I ordered the same as I had before.. they didn't note on their systems that I had a free upgrade, I can't see how I was meant to know that?

I had to order more as their delivery is 10 working days, my current flyers run out this week, I have about 100 left, and I send up to 80-100 letters out a day, so I had to do something.

Illgetmycoat Surely I had a sample in my old leaflet to work from, which is what I did?

Illgetmycoat Tue 27-Nov-12 23:36:12

That's why I said that there was poor communication on both yours and the printers parts. You specified 130gsm to begin with. They had upgraded to 300gsm without telling you. Both of you communicated poorly.

If you order print, you can't be casual about it. You have some responsibility to understand what you are asking for. I'm saying this as a designer who has to order up print and has been doing it for twenty years. I'm really sorry, because I know how upsetting it is when print comes back wrong, but I don't think your case would stand up in small claims.

JollyJock Tue 27-Nov-12 23:37:15

At the bottom of that website page they link to 'a beginner's guide to getting stuff printed'. On the third page of that blog is : www.tomtheprinter.co.uk/2007/01/choosing-paper-for-your-print-project.html?m=1 this link.

I think you've got a good deal actually. You are more at fault than they are, imo, and they've conceded a bit.

JollyJock Tue 27-Nov-12 23:38:09

I order a lot of printing and I always phone the printer if I have any questions.

nitrox Tue 27-Nov-12 23:43:04

My first order could have been on very thin paper, it wouldn't have mattered at the time as it was just a test order and to see how they went.

But based on that order I have (wrongly) understood what 170gsm actually is.

It was a casual order (the first one) I'm not ashamed to admit that, it didn't really matter to me, but now it does as I have changed the way I send items, the business has grown a lot and it's not appropriate to use the old packing methods.

I see what you are saying, but I'm a specialist in Quantity Surveying, so If I told you that you should have known I hadn't added a material in your bill for your kitchen extension, I'm sure you would not be happy about it, as you weren't to know any different.

OTheYuleManatee Tue 27-Nov-12 23:44:08

I'd be unhappy, but I think you have to write it off. Neither of you is really in the wrong. When they made up the second order, the person doing the printing wasn't necessarily the person who took the original order - if so they would not have had anything to go on except the paperwork for your previous order. If that didn't say anything about the 300gsm paper then it's not really their fault that you got what you asked for.

I can see it's really annoying for you and that you'd want some recompense, but actually the fact that they've offered to give you money off a 300gsm re-order seems reasonable given that they made an honest mistake.

nitrox Tue 27-Nov-12 23:49:30

The website I have put up on here is the one I'm placing the new order with, not the one that has done the order we are discussing.

I agree, their website is very good. The other's isn't as helpful.

The fact is if we are both at fault, why am I the only one losing out? I dare say they have at least covered their costs for the printing, yet I'm having to shell out more and more for something that was the same as my first order.

I can't see how I've done anything at all wrong here.. hmm

nitrox Tue 27-Nov-12 23:50:56

I did ask for the same gsm paper as my previous order.

Which, unknow to me and them it seems was 300gsm.

The fact they didn't tell me this for future reference or have anything on their systems to say this isn't my fault at all.

SavoyCabbage Tue 27-Nov-12 23:53:20

I think Yabu. It's likely that on your first order it was not written that you had had the upgrade to the 300, or they would have told you at the time.

You couldn't even remember what you ordered, you had to ask them.

They gave you what you ordered the first time, the second time confused and this would have been what they checked when you asked them.

They have offered to give you the 300 card for the additional money which is more than reasonable. They could have just told you that you had what you ordered and that if you wanted the card it would be the full price.

I think they have done their best.

IvanaNap Tue 27-Nov-12 23:56:20

As a possible solution :

ask if they will give you a supply of blank, cut to size, 300gsm pieces of card.

They save face, printing costs and possible small claims.
You get the faff of having to put something extra in your envelopes but have a quicker resolution and useable support for the product when posted (what is it btw?!)

Any good?
You may want to report your earlier post with your order number on btw.

amistillsexy Wed 28-Nov-12 00:02:00

You opened up a complaint with them and then went to another company and paid them to do the job right. Had you followed the complaint through to the end, you'd not be so out of pocket.

Chalk it up to experience.

RedHelenB Wed 28-Nov-12 08:00:29

YABU sorry!!

Trills Wed 28-Nov-12 08:07:12

The fact is if we are both at fault, why am I the only one losing out?

If you had taken them up on their offer you would both have lost out a little

They would have done the first lot of printing for free. You would have paid an extra lot of postage (over the correct cost of your printing).

I can't see how I've done anything at all wrong here

The only thing you have done wrong is talk about going to court when they have made you a fair and reasonable offer to make up for the mistake.

YouCanBe Wed 28-Nov-12 08:11:32

Mmm, I agree with others that it was a mistake, with fault on both sides, and their offer is pretty reasonable.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Wed 28-Nov-12 08:16:25

Check your original invoice. It should say 300 gsm if that is what they supplied you, with the price for the 170 gsm.

Generally, normal letter paper is 200 gsm, so 170 would indeed be flimsy.

Let us know what the invoice says, as this is key to how you proceed.

ZillionChocolate Wed 28-Nov-12 08:24:41

YABU

I don't know which GSM is which so take care to find out if it's ever important. You got what you ordered this time, what would the county court do about it?

I like the sound of ivanap's solution.

LIZS Wed 28-Nov-12 08:24:53

Had you been told at the outset that they actually delivered 300gsm last time , would you have been prepared to pay the extra and how much would it have been ? It seems like a genuine misunderstanding tbh.

nitrox Wed 28-Nov-12 08:34:46

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the replies.

I'm quite new to business and I guess I honestly couldn't see what people were saying blush I've slept on it and re-read everyone's messages and I have emailed them back to take them up on their offer.

Just to say, they didn't make their offer until after I threatened court with them, initially they said tough luck and they wouldn't do anything.

I do agree I should have known what I was ordering and I will take more care in the future with something so critical to my work.

I certainly know what 170 and 300gsm is now!!! grin

Thanks for the help, I was getting very wound up by all this and you have helped me see that I do have partial blame for it (even if I secretly still think now), and I should have made sure I knew what I was buying first.

Thanks again, and here's to having 30,000 leaflets in a week's time smile best get selling more!

Trills Wed 28-Nov-12 08:37:15

initially they said tough luck and they wouldn't do anything

That's crap of the, Well done for being tough and getting them to offer you something sensible.

SavoyCabbage Wed 28-Nov-12 08:45:03

You could go on Mastermind now with 'paper density' as your specialist subject...grin

nitrox Wed 28-Nov-12 08:50:43

LOL yeah, I won't get that wrong again blush

I guess I can try and make use of the thinner one's by adding some of the card backing, or sending it on larger orders.

& yes Trills, I think that's why I've got so angry about this and lost perspective. From day one they were messing me about, I've had to send samples in the post to them, then wait for them to send them to the factory, then waited for call backs.. and nothing was happening and I was getting really annoyed.

The account manager rang me yesterday and just tried to make out that it wasn't a problem and was very dismissive.

If they had said sorry at first and made me that offer I would have been happy, I even remember thinking I would accept that, but as it went I think I just dug me heels in smile

nitrox Wed 28-Nov-12 08:52:24

* Sorry can't type sentences this early blush

GrendelsMum Wed 28-Nov-12 08:56:27

That's good - pleased it was all resolved.

FWIW, in my experience as a non-specialist you do need to be very careful ordering print. It's horrendously complicated, and it does go wrong. I tend to get on the phone and witter at them again and again about what I want. Physical proofs are very important too.

JessieMcJessie Wed 28-Nov-12 09:04:36

Nitrox, professional indemnity insurance is not relevant. That is insurance taken out by lawyers, accountants, engineers, financial advisers etc to cover them for liability for giving wrong advice. A printer will not have such insurance. This is a commercial dispute and would not be covered by insurance. Trust me, I'm a professional indemnity lawyer grin

fraktion Wed 28-Nov-12 09:14:27

I think you've resolved this sensibly and it was poor of them to not initially acknowledge their mistake and make a goodwill gesture.

Hopefully you can make use of the other leaflets and have also learnt from this experience the importance of knowing what you're ordering!

Illgetmycoat Wed 28-Nov-12 09:16:36

That's interesting Jessie. I run a graphic design company and handle a lot of print for government. The department we work with insists that we have professional indemnity insurance. I've always assumed that was because it would cover us if we cocked up a print spec. Apparently not!

It's always frustrated me because it is quite expensive I wonder why they ask for it. Would you know?

Good luck with your new leaflets Nitrox - I hope business goes well.

Vix07 Wed 28-Nov-12 12:36:12

Illgetmycoat you're not wrong about PI Insurance - most businesses offering professional services including graphic design, IT etc will have cover, it's a pretty standard contract requirement these days. Jessie's post is a good 10 years out of date! smile

nitrox Wed 28-Nov-12 18:58:31

Sooo... I agreed to the reprint.

They now want to collect the first leaflets for recycling..

Is this a joke? hmm

CajaDeLaMemoria Wed 28-Nov-12 19:21:05

I was waiting for that, to be honest.

Most print companies (around me, at least) get paid to recycle paper. The more paper recycled, the more money.

I guess the company you've dealt with have calculated how much they can get for recycling your original leaflets, and offered that as a discount off reprinting them. In their eyes, you get what you actually wanted, and they get a happy customer and to not be too far out of pocket.

It's worth considering, if you can't use the thinner paper order, but make sure you leave reviews so others know how this company deal with problems. Thats a big thing to take into account when picking a print company.

greencheddar Wed 28-Nov-12 20:00:01

Can I be nosy and ask if they designed them for you too? I need 5000 leaflets and I have been quoted hundreds, the prices you have posted about seem reasonable. Can you pm me the company please. Also where their turn arounds times quick? Thanks.

RedToothbrush Wed 28-Nov-12 20:01:22

Most print companies (around me, at least) get paid to recycle paper. The more paper recycled, the more money.

I've worked at a printers for the last ten years (well until two weeks ago cos my boss is quite 'special' and sadly I've had to leave).

I've not heard of anyone getting paid for recycling paper in a very long time. We had to pay someone to remove it. If a job went wrong, you don't recoup the cost you have to shoulder the cost. So I'm not surprised at the company being reluctant to take all the blame over this, especially considering how tight margins are in the market at the moment and how many have gone out of business in the last four years. Technically they have delivered what you requested and you got a very good deal first time round.

We had our own printer so did everything we had in house. In the last two years though, every fuck wit and his dog has decided to order everything online. Trouble is most of the online companies are crap. If you have a problem then they are difficult to deal with, and mistakes are common. (We've outsourced to a couple ourselves on occasion too and had experience of them trying to dodge responsibility for poor jobs).

My advice is to use a local printing company - you might pay a little more, but you'll get better service and usually they'll proof your work before printing. They are being priced out the market and it's a real shame. Price seems to be the only consideration people use for printing, but since its such a bespoke service, its an unwise thing to consider in isolation. The way things are going, most printing will end up in Italy and Germany and with shite customer service. We have been outsourcing some jobs as they could print and deliver cheaper than we could even buy the paper for, never mind print in house. The print quality isn't a patch on what we could produce either but we had to do it on some jobs to stay competitive. Its all makes me very sad really, even though I've been forced to leave the industry.

FTW the compromise they've offered is very good.

Piffyonarock Wed 28-Nov-12 20:09:21

Hi Nitrox, sorry I went to bed and have only just logged back in. Glad it's resolved. I agree with RedToothbrush though, I'd always try to use a local firm if possible, it would likely to be more accurate and quick, and someone can show you stock samples, proofs etc. I still say you were in the right, if they changed the stock when it went to print they should have made a note on your order in case of a re-order - I can't tell you how many alterations some of my stuff used to go through between ordering and it going on the press, and I'd have thought most printers would have a system for keeping track of this. TBH I'm surprised they upped the gsm that much without asking you first! Was v. cheap for 10k though, even with the extra. Hope you have a successful festive season!

Piffyonarock Wed 28-Nov-12 20:14:23

Re the recycling, I've not heard of that before, but I've been SAHM for three years now. I think CajaDelMemoria has it right, doesn't make their offer seem generous at all. I'd definitely be looking for a new printer that I could be within reach of for face to face contact if required. Shop around, I was involved with a local school prospectus last year and there was a huge difference between the dearest and the cheapest for print, it is sometimes cheaper to have a separate designer and printer.

RedToothbrush Wed 28-Nov-12 20:30:10

The recycling is to stop you getting a batch of 'free' leaflets. They've offered a compromise because the originals were in your opinion - faulty - hence they want them back. So the deal you've got takes that into consideration. It protects their future interest should you come to reordering (which is part of the consideration of offering you the good reprint price which will be at a lost to them).

nitrox Wed 28-Nov-12 20:38:38

Red

I haven't had a 'good price' though, I've paid the same price for 300gsm that you or anybody else will pay by going to their website.

DownTheRabidHole Wed 28-Nov-12 20:39:46

Yabu.

Had you not had the upgrade to 300 the first time, would your original leaflets have been "useless"?

You got what you ordered and a firm lesson in the number 1 rule in printing.

nitrox Wed 28-Nov-12 20:40:35

Down

Read the whole thread and you will see the answer to your question.

CajaDeLaMemoria Wed 28-Nov-12 20:41:34

Maybe it's a Government scheme around here, then?

I've got - ironically - piles of leaflets from printers with details on. They will even take leaflets printed by other companies, and give you a 10% off discount for recycling with them.

lovelyladuree Wed 28-Nov-12 20:47:00

But for your first order, you requested 170gsm, so you MUST have known what the quality of 170gsm was. Didn't you? You say you needed backing card for the 'flimsy' items you send out, so you got very lucky with their upgrade on the first order. You messed up ordering the cheap 170gsm when what you really needed was the 300gsm. You have absolutely no case and the seller has my every sympathy. YABVU.

nitrox Wed 28-Nov-12 21:02:00

lovelyladuree

Have you even read the thread?

How must I know what 170gsm was? I thought what I received was 170gsm, I wasn't aware they had upgraded it.

nitrox Wed 28-Nov-12 21:03:51

& can I suggest people read the whole thread before commenting as it's quite annoying having to constantly repeat myself on my first order.

I used card backing, and I was going to add the cheap flyers. It didn't matter to me the thickness, as long as they were decent enough for the application instructions. As I got a card style flyer I thought, these are good! I'll just use these and obviously when I re-ordered I wanted the same as before.

DownTheRabidHole Wed 28-Nov-12 21:12:41

You fluffed the order.

Don't ask AIBU if you don't want to hear it.

Actually I feel very sorry for the business in question being bad-mouthed like this by you because of your mistake.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Wed 28-Nov-12 21:27:57

I haven't had a 'good price' though, I've paid the same price for 300gsm that you or anybody else will pay by going to their website

You have had a good price. They have just charged you for the 300gsm leaflets - they haven't charged you a penny for the 10000 leaflets you ordered with the incorrect specification - they are absorbing that entire cost for you - it's not like they can sell them to someone else.

RedToothbrush Wed 28-Nov-12 21:34:41

nitrox, as its a bespoke industry its the joint responsibility of the buyer and the seller. You got an upgrade on your original order - you should have been made aware of it, but as a buyer you should also know what you are ordering too. And personally the difference between 170gsm and 300gsm is so much and therefore a completely different product that I would expect it should have come up when your initial order was received. Put simply 170gsm is not a card, but 300gsm is. Its a difference that even someone unfamiliar with gsm should understand when they order leaflets but get postcards back. Its a different product to the order that an uneducated eye should still be able to spot.

You can not pass on that level of responsibility completely to the seller. Pleading ignorance isn't really an excuse. And its your own responsibility to understand what you are ordering or to ask proper questions about it if you don't understand. You would have been within your rights to complain about the original order but you didn't. Probably as it worked to your favour.

Whilst I do have sympathy with you to an extent, I also think you have unrealistic expectations here too.

Situations like this is why I stress about using local companies. The majority will do a proof of some kind to ensure the customer knows what they are getting (and to cover their backsides against people like you who don't know what they are ordering).

Printing is not like buying a book off amazon. It is a specialist industry and you do need to have a specialist knowledge if you are trying to cut corners and costs.

We've had a lot of customers who have experienced with online printers and have eventually come back to us out of disgust and realising that they don't get the same safeguards and customer service to prevent problems if they take the cheapest option.

The system we used was always to supply a customer with a printed proof to sign so they checked for spelling errors or were able to get a good idea of how the product would look in the end. You'd be amazed at how many people expect the printer to proof read their work and take responsibility for their own spelling or similar mistakes. Companies either have to take one of two approaches; a hard line on customer complaints and a reluctance to take responsibility when things go wrong OR charge more to give a level of service that helps the customer and the printer from having mistakes in the first place.

We'd also keep a sample of a previous job, but if you are dealing with a massive company, the practicalities of pulling out a sample for every reprint logistically has problems so the responsibility rests far more on the customer to understand what they are ordering from the word go.

It is one industry where it is very, very true that you tend to get what you pay for if you try and do things on the cheap and trying to do it on the cheap often does not work out the most economic option in the long run. You are buying a service and knowledge as well as a product. So if you don't fully understand the product, employ someone who proves to you that they do and they will guide you through things properly and ensure that you are fully informed.
But too many people don't understand this and get upset when they get their fingers burnt.

Illgetmycoat Wed 28-Nov-12 22:53:05

RedToothbrush, I like the cut of your jib. You sound like a good printer.

Trills Fri 30-Nov-12 13:19:18

Did the leaflets from the second company turn up on time? Were they good quality?

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