Note: Please bear in mind that whilst this topic does canvass opinions, it is not a fight club. You may disagree with other posters but we do ask you please to stick to our Talk Guidelines and to be civil. We don't allow personal attacks or troll-hunting. Do please report any. Thanks, MNHQ.

to think that mumsnet should be a website for all mums regardless

(398 Posts)
tittytittyhanghang Sun 25-Nov-12 17:18:21

of literacy and the way they speak/type and should be welcoming to everyone? I cant fucking stand this perceived superiority over certain posters that use text speak, use of hun, lol, x's etc or the suggestion that they are somehow unsuitable for this forum and should bugger off to the other one.

As as for the fucking grammer police, fuck the fuck off. Just because someone maybe didn't use capitals, or misspelt a word, or hasn't posted perfect english, doesn't open their post to ridicule.

SundaeGirl Sun 25-Nov-12 17:19:35

YABU. Standards, we have them.

Xxx

No, YABU.
Not everyone can read 'Text speak'.

InSPsFanjoNoOneHearsYouScream Sun 25-Nov-12 17:22:13

I dnt c da issue tbh so I iz wid ya on dat one

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Sun 25-Nov-12 17:22:14

Sorry, but using text speak does open someone up to ridicule in my opinion.

Typos, misspellings, incorrect grammar or generally bad English is fine IMO. We all make mistakes and being crap at English doesn't say anything bad about a person.

But using text speak, especially using 'u' instead of typing 'you', is likely to make me think less of that person.

Pontouf Sun 25-Nov-12 17:22:18

Nope YABU.

crashdoll Sun 25-Nov-12 17:22:31

Text speak is really difficult to read. Many forums ban it.

threesocksmorgan Sun 25-Nov-12 17:22:50

yabu
no one should use text speak.
but as for grammer and stuff like that...
yanbu

InSPsFanjoNoOneHearsYouScream Sun 25-Nov-12 17:23:04

U iz all totes neg init

LadyMaryChristmas Sun 25-Nov-12 17:23:28

I can't read it, I'm sorry. I have friends who write like that on FB and I have to get ds to translate it for me as it makes my head explode.

Write how you wish, if you want me to reply then I need to be able to read it. I'll just get bored and abandon the thread otherwise.

crashdoll Sun 25-Nov-12 17:24:46

Just adding that I don't have an issue with spelling or grammar errors but if your post is difficult to read e.g. one long paragraph with no full stops, I might point that out as a helpful hint.

LadyMaryChristmas Sun 25-Nov-12 17:24:53

Poor grammar is readable though (sorry, I should have mentioned), as are spelling mistakes. I'm the last one to say they are perfect, and not everyone has these skills. I wouldn't point them out though, that's just rude.

MumsGoToReykjavik Sun 25-Nov-12 17:24:54

I personally cannot stand text speak, or hun or lolz or bubz or lil man or lil princess or the stupid inexplicable use of x's after each bloody post. Drives me mad. That's just me and that's why I post here and not on the other one.

However I haven't seen anybody suggest that anyone who DOES use that kind of 'speak' should fuck off. A bit of lighthearted teasing maybe but the same level of teasing applies to naice middle class problem type threads.

MardyBra Sun 25-Nov-12 17:24:57

Yanbu and yabu.

If somebody posts for help, but don't have perfect grammar, then it's not acceptable that they are picked up on their writing style. However, I would say that it's very infrequent that this is the case, and when it does happen the pedantic posters get sat on fairly quickly.

However, if someone is being a cunt, then it's fair dos.

Textspeak is extremely hard to read especially if you are old like me. Other things like not using "hun" and "lol" are just MN conventions as far as I see it. Some users do 'lol'. I just grin instead unless I've actually 'lolled'.

I kind of agree that sometimes it can go a bit far, typing often gives an error or two, but I cannot abide text speak I make spelling errors and If I was in mid rant or upset it is not helpful to have someone ignore the issue at hand and just comment on your spelling.

Chanatan Sun 25-Nov-12 17:25:05

Has someone upset you OP?

WorraLiberty Sun 25-Nov-12 17:25:38

ur bn silE. nt every1 cn undrst& it wen ppl wrt lk dis. It's nt hrd 2 + a few mor chars 2 yr wrds 2 makeem ez 2 read.

hth

tisnottheseasonyet Sun 25-Nov-12 17:25:55

I agree that if someone makes one or two spelling/grammar mistakes, people shouldn't leap on it as though it renders their point invalid. However, a whole string of misspelled words can be very hard to read, and sometimes simply do not make sense.

As for hun, xx, etc, that's not a literacy issue, it's just annoying and unnecessary.

MumsGoToReykjavik Sun 25-Nov-12 17:26:15

Will also add that I don't have a problem with bad grammar. I don't think my grammar is very good but I do my best!

RainbowRabbit33 Sun 25-Nov-12 17:26:20

YABU, if only because you have told me that I am no longer welcome on your forum as my husband and I have not yet managed to procreate.

GhostShip Sun 25-Nov-12 17:26:39

Text speak is unacceptable.

However people piss me off ridiculing others spelling in a debate. It's a low form of mockery, that's unacceptable.

Not to mention the person could be dyslexic.

InSPsFanjoNoOneHearsYouScream Sun 25-Nov-12 17:27:24

worra ur txt speak iz wel gud!

MumsGoToReykjavik Sun 25-Nov-12 17:27:37

What Worra said is an excellent example of why text speak is so bloody ridiculous. I had to read each "word" aloud just to try and understand what she was saying!

ThickCut Sun 25-Nov-12 17:28:01

But this is an international forum, some abbrevations or text speak may be really hard to understand if English isn't your first language.

But I agree with you about the grammar police the bastards some people are also dyslexic so bear that in mind next time you start nit picking over petty spelling mistakes.

I can't read text speak but realise that might be my problem. If I send a text, I do it using full words and would do indented paragraphs if I could. grin

I think pulling posters up on grammar though is annoying. Try having a conversation with someone in RL where they are constantly correcting the way you speak.

Narked Sun 25-Nov-12 17:28:13

If you can't be bothered to write a legible post why should people bother reading it? Everyone makes spelling mistakes and grammatical errors. The odd typo is accepted. It's only the extremes that are picked up on.

The posts full of text speak and truly atrocious spelling are often trolls playing a part.

OhComeAllYeZombies Sun 25-Nov-12 17:28:16

The MNHQ stance on text speak can be found here:

www.mumsnet.com/info/accessibility

Kewcumber Sun 25-Nov-12 17:28:37

textspeak is difficult for people with visual impairments who use programmes to "read" words out so I think it should be discouraged.

But I do think the deliberate use of hectoring people about their spelling, grammar etc is a cheap shot. Mostly if I can understand a post I'll address the post, I'm a grown up and pretty literate myself so I can mostly understadn thigns even if they aren;t well written./

And I type so fast and badly taught that my posts are littered with typos anyway!

SoupDragon Sun 25-Nov-12 17:28:49

Adults using text speak deserve to be ridiculed IMO. Well, not actually ridiculed on my part but I do lower my opinion of them and their intelligence. Doesn't stop me helping if I could though.

If, as you say, MN should be a place for all mothers then you have to allow the grammar police the freedom to be here.

omletta Sun 25-Nov-12 17:29:02

Text speak is very hard to read.

A lack of punctuation also make a post hard to read.

Poor spelling and/or grammar is largely irrelevant IMO.

mrsscoob Sun 25-Nov-12 17:29:16

I think it is funny that people (myself included) don't have a problem with people using the word cunt but hate the word hun grin

YABU

YABU

(ponders the hypocrisy of typing "YABU" to condemn text speak)

:-)

Kewcumber Sun 25-Nov-12 17:30:32

And I have seen seen the grammar police harrass someones spelling on a thread without realising she is blind and dictates her posts and is entirely at the mercy of the programme if it picks a bizarre spelling. I do find it very humbling that she never points this out to anyone.

MumsGoToReykjavik Sun 25-Nov-12 17:30:36

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

tisnottheseasonyet Sun 25-Nov-12 17:30:47

Although soupdragon it could be argued that "MN" is a form of text speak, "IMO" definitely so...

MardyBra Sun 25-Nov-12 17:30:50

TessCow Indented paragraphs are so 1980s. shock

MardyBra Sun 25-Nov-12 17:31:39

Anyway, we all put up with Chaos. we can't be that bad.

<dusts typewriter>

Your point?

SaraBellumHertz Sun 25-Nov-12 17:32:00

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

OliviaMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 25-Nov-12 17:32:38

Erm. An OP with the words fuck the fuck off in them isn't terribly inclusive though, is it?
Peace and love covers most things ime.
HTH
grin

WorraLiberty Sun 25-Nov-12 17:32:52

I'm just glad Shakespeare never got his hands on an Android grin

But soft, what light through yonder window breaks?
It is the east, and Juliet is the sun.
Arise, fair sun, and kill the envious moon,
Who is already sick and pale with grief

bt soft, w@ lyt thru yonDr windO breaks? itz d east, n Juliet S d sun. Arise, fair sun, n kil d nVS m%n, huz alrdy sick n pale W grief

mrsscoob Sun 25-Nov-12 17:33:23

Why was reykjaviks post deleted?

lljkk Sun 25-Nov-12 17:33:24

I'd rather txtspk than posters who can't write in paragraphs. So ½ YANBU.

OliviaMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 25-Nov-12 17:33:43

Personal attacks that are struck out will still be deleted btw

MumsGoToReykjavik Sun 25-Nov-12 17:33:50

I have always thought that the abbreviations used on forums are very different to text speak. Txt spk deliberately spells words wrong, dat and dis for example and some words are spelt/altered so ridiculously that you actually use more letters than if you spelt it correctly! Totes stupid innit?

InSPsFanjoNoOneHearsYouScream Sun 25-Nov-12 17:33:53

Or
Oi Romeo, wher da fuck iz u?

MumsGoToReykjavik Sun 25-Nov-12 17:34:50

Why was I deleted? I was just jokingly responding to what mrsscoob said!

McChristmasPants2012 Sun 25-Nov-12 17:35:11

i hate text speach, I can not read it and i am not prepared to learn it.

mrsscoob Sun 25-Nov-12 17:35:36

Oh yes I hate it when people don't use paragraphs, I never read those posts, it hurts my brain.

WorraLiberty Sun 25-Nov-12 17:35:49

SP!! grin

ICutMyFootOnOccamsRazor Sun 25-Nov-12 17:35:54

YABU. Textspeak makes my teeth itch.

And YABVU for saying that 'Mumsnet should be a site for all mums' when it should be a site for all people regardless of gender and/or parenting status.

usualsuspect3 Sun 25-Nov-12 17:36:25

YANBU.

If I can read the post I don't give a toss how it's written.

I can even understand text speak <down with the kids>

mrsscoob Sun 25-Nov-12 17:36:55

I know Reykjavik. I wonder if it was the word cunt or hun that broke the guidelines?? grin

KellyEllyChristmasBelly Sun 25-Nov-12 17:37:14

But using text speak, especially using 'u' instead of typing 'you', is likely to make me think less of that person. really? The use of u makes you think less of a person. What high standards you have!

Mintyy Sun 25-Nov-12 17:37:19

I don't agree that there is a lot of pedantry or much evidence of the grammar police on this site. I am here day in day out, come rain come shine, and hardly ever see anyone criticised for their grammar or spelling. Infact I would say on balance that it is a very tolerant site from that pov.

Textspeak is unpopular, as is posting lengthy paragraphs with no punctuation because it is difficult for people to read. If you are asking people for help and advice then it helps if other posters are willing to engage with you.

GrumpyCynicalBastard Sun 25-Nov-12 17:37:58

Text speak should be the preserve of teenagers. I like to think this is a forum superbly UNpopulated by teenagers. But hey OP - if you like it that much, and clearly you do hun, then do feel free to wing your merry way over to the other place. I believe you can have a ticker there too so everyone can know just exactly how many hours, minutes and seconds until your next hissy outburst. See ya!

WorraLiberty Sun 25-Nov-12 17:38:08

I'm sure Olivia meant...

pRsNL atax dat r struck ot wl stil B deleted btw

grin Imagine if all of MNHQ tlk lik dat?

MumsGoToReykjavik Sun 25-Nov-12 17:38:18

My first ever deletion and all for making a joke! <flounces>

SoupDragon Sun 25-Nov-12 17:38:20

Although soupdragon it could be argued that "MN" is a form of text speak, "IMO" definitely so...

Er, no they aren't. They are acronyms which are different from missing out numerous vowels and doing stuff like referring to mate as "m8"

McChristmasPants2012 Sun 25-Nov-12 17:38:24

ICutMyFootOnOccamsRazor.

I Like your responce to this thread. Mumsnet has a lot of varied topics which benifits not just mums but a lot of other people.

mrsscoob Sun 25-Nov-12 17:39:43

It was funny too Reykjavik

BrittaPerry Sun 25-Nov-12 17:40:08

There is loads of internet to txt spk all over, loads of places to star out swears, loads of places where you can hug and hun to your hearts content.

I think we need somewhere where women can talk like grownups.

usualsuspect3 Sun 25-Nov-12 17:40:39

MumsGoToReykjavik , you can go and post on the 'how many times have you been deleted' thread now. grin

MrsDeVere Sun 25-Nov-12 17:41:01

Text speak is a nopey no.
I hate lack of paragraphs too BUT sometimes people are writing a desperate first post and it's all long and frantic and everything is awful...and
A bunch of posters ignore the desperation and start blapping on about fucking paragraphs. Not.On.

I have also noticed that if a new poster writes in a non-u way they will be slaughtered in a horrible way regardless of wether they are being unreasonable or not.

People who correct spelling are knobbers.
Not everyone has the benefit of a decent education

whistlestopcafe Sun 25-Nov-12 17:41:34

I do think it is rude to pick on people for spelling mistakes or grammatical errors. Some posters are dyslexic and not everyone is good at writing.

Posts without paragraphs I tend to ignore, if people want their posts to be read by a wider audience they ought to make at least some effort to ensure it is legible.

Text speak drives me insane! I find it impossible to decipher and I do judge people in a negative way for using it. Sorry. blush

tittytittyhanghang Sun 25-Nov-12 17:41:35

TBF i dont think I have actually read text speak that bad on here. I certainly dont use it. Possibly the bad use of grammer gets me, or more people's responses to it. It doesn't bother me if people haven't written in perfect english, or if its littered with spelling mistakes, if they use huns or lols has no bearing on me, as long as i get the gist of what they are saying. My mum probably falls into the above (bad grammer, and really crappy spelling) and I be a bit dismayed if she came onto this site only for her post to be picked apart for these reasons.

SchroSawMummyRidingSantaClaus Sun 25-Nov-12 17:41:59

I use "x" a lot on here and have never had anything said to me about it.

I did once ask for a thread to be pulled though because I was being slagged for saying "seen" and not "saw". I mean, WTF? It's one thing getting pissed off about text speak that can't be understood but that takes the piss!

I can read text speak - but it makes my teeth itch. I also text in longhand complete with punctuation and paragraphs grin.

I don't pull people up on spelling or grammar - it's rude and for all I know they may be dyslexic. Plus they obviously aren't deliberately doing it to annoy, it's not a choice I don't think? so it's unnecessarily bitchy to point it out. The only exception is suggesting paragraphs could possibly help, but only if done with tact and diplomacy.

Noone is taught how to read and write text speak at school, so they are choosing to do it. Which makes it fair game. Because it drives me batshit crazy!

InSPsFanjoNoOneHearsYouScream Sun 25-Nov-12 17:43:22

worra
Romeo will be all

Juliet u iz peng, we should link up init. Dnt gi a fuck wot r fams say.

McChristmasPants2012 Sun 25-Nov-12 17:43:39

also i think MN should Put LTB on the Acronyms list smile

MumsGoToReykjavik Sun 25-Nov-12 17:43:58

I want a fluffy cuddle from a glittery ticker now. Totes.

tittytittyhanghang Sun 25-Nov-12 17:43:58

Sorry about the mums thing, i didn't mean to imply that you have to be a mum to come onto this site. Should have worded that different. But if you come onto this forum, I think its a bit sad that you are essentially directed elsewhere because your not considered the right type of clientele sts.

SchroSawMummyRidingSantaClaus Sun 25-Nov-12 17:44:13

SP Thanks for giving me a headache. angry grin

usualsuspect3 Sun 25-Nov-12 17:44:51

I cringe at the posters who correct spelling and grammar. I think less of them for doing it TBH.

WorraLiberty Sun 25-Nov-12 17:44:54

Yeh lyk totes SP

Mintyy Sun 25-Nov-12 17:44:56

Can you give some recent examples titty?

I think you overdid it with the swearing in your op btw.

Spelling mistakes and poor grammar I can live with, mostly because I am rubbish at spelling and typing. There are a few that annoy me but I ignore because I am far from perfect and it would be rude to point out the difference between there and their for example.

Text speak I hate. I refuse to read it and think it is lazy. If I get an email or text message with text speak I respond asking people to write to me in English.

usualsuspect3 Sun 25-Nov-12 17:45:57

Yeah the 'this forum is not for the likes of you' pisses me off too.

Chandon Sun 25-Nov-12 17:46:31

OP, did you put all those spelling mistakes in your OP there on purpose???

Just wondering if you are trying to get the pedants to come out and play?

WorraLiberty Sun 25-Nov-12 17:46:45

I cringe at the posters who correct spelling and grammar. I think less of them for doing it TBH.

In all seriousness so do I...and those who self appoint themselves to go around the boards telling people they're in the wrong section. I feel a knuckle chewing embarrassment for them.

tittytittyhanghang Sun 25-Nov-12 17:47:11

what mintyy, i thought this was the site where you could swear to your hearts delight :D and not have to put * in neither.

InSPsFanjoNoOneHearsYouScream Sun 25-Nov-12 17:47:31

Den Juliet wil b all

Bt ma fam n ur fam dnt wnt uz t b 2geva. It cud all go rong. Mi txts r runnin out so I wil BBM u. Dnt let ya fam c we av bin tlkin doe

tittytittyhanghang Sun 25-Nov-12 17:48:39

chandon, im so good at spelling mistakes i do them without even thinking about it, totally unintentional smile

WorraLiberty Sun 25-Nov-12 17:48:58

<< Grabs SP's hands to stop her from typing >> angry

InSPsFanjoNoOneHearsYouScream Sun 25-Nov-12 17:50:37

grin that's how my 13 year old brother texts me.

I don't get pulled up on spelling or grammar when I should do it been pretty bad at times

Ragwort Sun 25-Nov-12 17:50:58

I find your OP pretty offensive actually, why all the need for the F* words, to me that is just as juvenile as using text speak grin.

tittytittyhanghang Sun 25-Nov-12 17:51:23

See sp, your posts make me think that you must really use text speak all the time smile I can maybe read them but to write them would be just too much like hard work.

SchroSawMummyRidingSantaClaus Sun 25-Nov-12 17:51:28

This thread is melting what's left of my brain. angry

<Goes to get migrane tablet>

tittytittyhanghang Sun 25-Nov-12 17:54:13

Tisn't juvenile to use the Fuck word. I thought on mn kids swearing was frowned upon, only adults get to use them, so by using fuck i am clearly demonstrating that I am a fully grown grown up.

MrsDeVere Sun 25-Nov-12 17:54:50

usual I read that as 'I cringe at posters who use incorrect Grammer and spelling'
I thought aliens had abducted you and done things to your brain for a brief moment grin

Tweasels Sun 25-Nov-12 17:55:14

I don't even text in text speak. I'm a grammatical bastard.

stargirl1701 Sun 25-Nov-12 17:56:18

YABU. Literacy is essential. People are judged on their literacy. That's life.

crashdoll Sun 25-Nov-12 17:56:28

You said MN should be for all, except those who comment on grammar. So, not for all, eh?

Strawhatpirate Sun 25-Nov-12 17:57:54

YABVU! Txt speak is a seperate issue from grammer and spelling. Poor spelling and grammer are still decipherable, txt speak however is not.
I would rather someone say cunt a thousand times in one post than say "lil" or "bubz" once. People will be using long vomit inducing sigs next and then where will be! We will become no better than Netmums!

tisnottheseasonyet Sun 25-Nov-12 18:00:51

Soupdragon, if you want to get technical, they're not acronyms, they're initialisms grin

Fairylea Sun 25-Nov-12 18:09:56

Text speak is unnecessary however bad your general grammar or spelling is, no one should use text speak on a forum as its so hard to read.

However, spelling etc etc I can't stand spelling police. It's unfair and snobby. If you can't respond to the poster without being patronising then don't post. It's not essential to correct people.

3b1g Sun 25-Nov-12 18:10:40

'...by ( swearing ) I am clearly demonstrating that I am a fully grown grown up.'
I'm going to have to disagree with you there, hun.

dawntigga Sun 25-Nov-12 18:10:54

YABU the vocal majority of people on this site hate text speak with a passion, it's a largely self governing site and overall it works. You don't walk into a community and dictate that you are not going to abide by the 'rules' that everyone else have decided work for them you are opening yourself up to a heap of issues. IME (and I've been here for a while) now there is loads of leeway given to people who have dyslexia etc and it's a warm and welcoming site to those who abide by the few 'rules' there are.

If the over all opinion should change then of course the 'rules' would change also, I can't see that happening any time soon. There are sites out there who cater for the huggers and text speakers surely you go where that kind of thing is welcome if that's what you are looking for?

NeverMindsBeingPickedUpOnGrammarAsI'mCrapAtItTiggaxx

usualsuspect3 Sun 25-Nov-12 18:11:31

Nowt wrong with a good fucking swear.

usualsuspect3 Sun 25-Nov-12 18:12:29

I like a hug sometimes.

Pendipidy Sun 25-Nov-12 18:17:25

It isn't juvenile to swear, as has been pointed out many times to me in the thread i started about swearing! Also i apparently use exclamation marks too often. I think mn posters who are on here a lot see it as their club and if you question anything or say something they don't like you are told to go , like it is their forum and they are in charge when in fact it is not and they are not!

Regarding text speak, i hate to read it so if i see a thread or post written in it i won't read or reply.

Trills Sun 25-Nov-12 18:19:34

YABU to think that Mumsnet is a website for mums (in site of the name). It is a website for people.

amillionyears Sun 25-Nov-12 18:22:45

Dont care about spelling or grammar.

text speak - people can write it.
It is up to others whether they want to wade through and respond.

MrsDeVere Sun 25-Nov-12 18:23:22

I think it's ok to gently point out to a newbie that 'we don't use text speak on MN. It might be a good idea to use a different posting syle'

I have seen kind souls do that.

This is not ok :

Op: My boyf just smak me & tld me he iz gunna tak de babee

Reply: my eyes, my eyes! Do you think you would be happier on netmums Hun?
Reply: fgs pass the brain bleach.
Reply: I can't even be bothered to read that, let alone reply.

Op quietly fucks off and tops herself.

3b1g Sun 25-Nov-12 18:24:15

The swearing doesn't bother me much either way. I don't see it as a demonstration of maturity though. The text speak is really hard for some people to decipher. The grammar and spelling mistakes disrupt the flow when I'm reading, but that's my problem and it would be rude of me to correct them.

usualsuspect3 Sun 25-Nov-12 18:26:58

I like the amateur dramatics from some pedants when someone uses text speak. grin

I agree though, that being nasty about it makes you look more of a twat than the poster using the text speak.

I agree with MrsDeVere.

I particularly hate it when I've read an op perfectly easily and people start claiming it's "impossible" to read without paragraphs, then someone comes along and puts the op into paragraphs to "help" the op. How incredibly rude and patronising! How dare the presume they know better and meddle with somebody's post angry.

Tbh though your op is pointless as the people that do it are so up themselves they honestly think they are right to do it, so no amount of posts on the subject changes anything.

NigellasGuest Sun 25-Nov-12 18:31:25

can't stand the way some people correct spelling.
some people are dyslexic ffs!

wigglesrock Sun 25-Nov-12 18:34:41

YANBU - especially with regards to the paragraphs, if you can't read it because you can't take it all in, stop reading and go and find something else to do, without comment.

And don't get me started on the eejits who helpfully point out that someones username doesn't really fit with MN - ie there are numbers in it, the word mummy is in it etc. That really fucking irritates me - its a made up name, do people really give 2 shiney shites what someone wants to call themselves on a forum?

SaraBellumHertz Sun 25-Nov-12 18:36:46

Seriously MNtowers - how is me stating that I would think less of a hypothetical person a personal attack?!

LtEveDallas Sun 25-Nov-12 18:38:51

Cant stand text speak, I think it's lazy, hard to read and should be left to da kidz. I'm 40 years old, why would I need to speak like a 14 year old? I actually find it embarrassing when a grown woman uses it (my niece, bless her, 33 years old and I have to get my 17 year old to read her texts to me - I am soooooo old)

Spellings and grammar don't bother me so much, and I'm not fussed if I am picked up for mine - every day is a school day. I think my standard of English is pretty good, but there is always room for improvement. I hadn't heard of the Oxford Comma until I came here - a pedant told me all about it grin

I really hate it when people pick on the typos though - fecking iPhone has a mind of its own, and catches me out all the time.

LadyBeagle Sun 25-Nov-12 18:43:02

I don't understand textspeak either, I have to read every individual word and translate them in my head.
CBA with that so I just don't read the posts.
I struggle with no paragraphs as they take so long to read as I keep losing my place.
Spelling and grammar I don't care about, we all make the occasional mistake, it's always funny when a poster picks on someones spelling as they invariably make mistakes themselves.

MissCellania Sun 25-Nov-12 18:47:13

Textspeak isn't welcoming to everyone is it? It's excluding those of us, a large number, that haven't a fucking notion what the random streams of consonants are supposed to mean.

Its rude to write in a way that is offputting to a lot of people, and if people take the time to answer your posts, you should take the time to write properly. It's just manners.

LtEveDallas Sun 25-Nov-12 18:48:00

Ahh the paragraphs thing does annoy me - but probably because I'm trying to read it all on my phone, and it's a bitch to see.

MorrisZapp Sun 25-Nov-12 18:48:52

Yabu

I can't read the long posts without paragraphs.

Text speak is a huge no no on a site for adults.

I love MN for the high quality of language used.

SugarMouse1 Sun 25-Nov-12 18:52:28

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

BumpingFuglies Sun 25-Nov-12 18:53:16

YANBU. Did MN make rules about text speak and grammar? Think not.

Trills Sun 25-Nov-12 18:55:02

Dyslexia is a reason for people not to use text speak - it's much harder for people with dyslexia to read than writing out words in full.

usualsuspect3 Sun 25-Nov-12 18:55:59

What the fuck as being on benefits got to do with this?

MrsDeVere Sun 25-Nov-12 18:56:40

Awww u iz so sweet sugarmouse
U make me feel awl warm n fuzzy.

LadyBeagle Sun 25-Nov-12 18:56:54

Wow SugarMouse, are you for real?
'Netmums full of functionally illiterate people and those on benefits'
What a nasty little snob you sound.

3b1g Sun 25-Nov-12 18:57:32

I do find it funny when people rant about grammar etc and then don't seem to know when to use 'your' as opposed to 'you're'. However, in these days of phones that try to predict what the poster is attempting to type, one can always blame technology! (smile)

wigglesrock Sun 25-Nov-12 18:58:22

See I'm on NetMums as well already shock

Thank you Zombies I knew that was here somewhere and couldn't find it the other day!

3b1g Sun 25-Nov-12 18:58:39

Aaargh. Wrong brackets! Try again: smile

BumpingFuglies Sun 25-Nov-12 18:59:30

Oh yes. Let's all have perfect spelling and grammar SugarMouse, no excuses EVER. Let's ignore the individual and their way of typing.

You are displaying absolute ignorance of dyslexia btw hmm

usualsuspect3 Sun 25-Nov-12 18:59:42

Has not as. <shoots self>

hortensemancini Sun 25-Nov-12 19:03:04

Sugarmouse You've got to be really sure you've spellchecked posts like that before you hit send...

exoticfruits Sun 25-Nov-12 19:04:28

It is for everyone-not just mums.I would agree that if someone comes on with a real problem it isn't helpful to point out mistakes in grammar. Having said that, there are some OPs that are just too long, with no paragraphs, to read.

manicinsomniac Sun 25-Nov-12 19:07:26

YANBU

I find lots of things on mumsnet annoying. It doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed, it just means I have to deal with it or not read it. Same for anybody with any pet hate (unless it's actually harming someone eg personal threats)

Textspeak is vile, childish and annoying imo - but it's a free country, some people prefer it.
Poor spelling and grammar grates on me - but that's my issue and mine isn't perfect either.
Swearing is (imo) over the top on here. I have no problem with the odd fuck and shit in a post but the other word that seems so beloved on here is one I have very rarely if ever heard an adult use and couldn't ever bring myself to say. I find it genuinely offensive. But again, my issue to deal with, not the poster's.

Far worse than either of those (again imo) is the constant use of DD3, DH, DM etc. Ugh, drives me up the wall. Still doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed.

I don't agree with censorship. I think people should post what and how they feel like. I even think racist, sexitst, disablist, homophobic etc comments should be allowed - they show the person up for who they are, there's no need to delete it.

MrsDeVere Sun 25-Nov-12 19:07:50

People who write those posts always do that.
It's well funny

FellatioNelson Sun 25-Nov-12 19:07:55

I think perhaps MNHQ ought to have a sticky for newbies regarding the etiquette re: textspeak. Personally I cannot abide it (even in texts confused) but I would not refuse to engage with someone who used it if they sounded like they needed friendly advice and some hand holding. I don't think many people would be scathing towards a poster who just sounded a bit fick but harmless, if they had a genuine problem that was no fault of their own and they sounded very low. When peopledo get a bit arsey is when a poster sounds fick and wiv attitude. Then the daggers come out.

Viviennemary Sun 25-Nov-12 19:10:23

I think it's extremely bad manners to draw attention to somebody's spelling and grammatical errors. So if I've made any in this post I don't want to know. grin I'm not keen on text speak. But I've been told it's the way things are going and I must get over it.

MissCellania Sun 25-Nov-12 19:11:00

Anyway, I don't think its true that people often comment on spelling and grammar etc, unless OP is being a prick anyway. I've just read a post that was very badly spelled, sparse punctuation, etc etc, to the point where I didn't know the main thing that was being talked about, but not one person on the fairly long thread said a word about it. Thats the norm.

"I particularly hate it when I've read an op perfectly easily and people start claiming it's "impossible" to read without paragraphs, then someone comes along and puts the op into paragraphs to "help" the op. How incredibly rude and patronising!"

I actually like it when people do that blush

I do find it incredibly hard to read posts without paragraphs, and often those posts are written by distressed posters. Surely it's better that someone makes it easier to read so that more of us can help?

I apologise to everyone else for what follows..
sugarmouse Firstly, well done for being so clever. But here's a few things you might want to think about before slating others.
a) Your username shows a lack of imagination, as evidenced by the fact you need the number 1 after it. That's a sure sign that the only way you could find a novel username was to add random numbers to it.
b) Spell check? Would spell check have caught this? "Eye halve a spelling chequer, It came with my pea sea, It plainly marques four my revue, Miss steaks eye kin knot sea."
c) Education would tell you that people can be on benefits due to health problems, disability, redundancy or just plain bad luck. You might want to look into education for yourself.

“Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go.”
&#8213; Oscar Wilde

echt Sun 25-Nov-12 19:17:22

Clear communication is very important. If an OP's in textspeak, unparagraphed or garbled, I just don't read it, though I wouldn't make a special point of posting to tell them so.

EdgarAllanPond Sun 25-Nov-12 19:27:37

it is easier to get your point across if you write in clear English.

you switch off some people through poor grammar

some through swearing

some people if you just aren't that interesting to read.

so although i think goading posters who swear, make spelling / grammar errors etc is wrong, i think posters will get their message across to more people if they try to put it out in as easy to read a form as possible.

that said, i recently destroyed another PC and am yet again typing on a tiny one which i find it really easy to mistype on...so my posts do go out with mistakes - but it's a forum, not a workplace, so sue me...

LadyIsabellaWrotham Sun 25-Nov-12 19:29:45

I think it's very arrogant to assume that acceptance by MN is the be all and end all. There are several perfectly good online fora. Some you can hun, lol and 4get to your heart's content, and ascribe your DP's behaviour to the fact that he's a Leo, but may not say norty words. Some you can say cuntybollox but need to use capital letters and apostrophes, and may be told that "the plural of anecdote is not data" on a very regular basis.

There is room for both and that is just fine.

wheresmespecs Sun 25-Nov-12 19:34:41

YANBU, YANBU, YANBU.

Threads where the sneery and aggressive snobby Alpha mums rock up and start telling someone they'd be better off on netmums ("hun") are just vile. I'm not sure it matters but it does skew people's view of MN, IME. Which is a shame given that there are some sensitive and sensible people here. I suppose those jeery sneery threads and responses just make lively reading.

Interesting to see someone dismissing netmums as being full of illiterates on benefits. I often feel that sort of attitude lies behind the wafting of scented hankies whenever someone uses text speak or an iffy apostrophe.

btw, I'm an Oxbridge English graduate and educated up to the gills. I want to see good literacy (and numeracy) achieved at school. I never want to see it being used as a stick to beat someone with.

KellyEllyChristmasBelly Sun 25-Nov-12 19:37:25

All you are proving with you're incoherent posts not sure of they difference between your and you're eh sugermouse ;)

NaiceSpam Sun 25-Nov-12 19:38:19

You Are Being Unreasonable.

I forgive "common" misspellings and grammatical errors (although they do make me wince) but txtspk is not a practical way to communicate.

sunshine401 Sun 25-Nov-12 19:45:17

I think it's extremely bad manners to draw attention to somebody's spelling and grammatical errors

Couldn't agree more smile Not everyone is good at everything you know. By correcting someone based on their spelling/grammar just shows there are some really bored people out there that feel it is alright to pick up on silly things to put someone down.

psychomum5 Sun 25-Nov-12 19:46:38

Text speak is in itself explanatory...it is for use in TEXTS.

I am a stickler for paragraphs, but that is because I always use them however I type.....I even text in paragraphs as my phone is fabulous and allows me grin

I am very pedantic when it comes to my children texting me. They hate it, but I pick them up on it as, being their mother, it is my job to teach them. They can use txt spk with their friends, not me.

I also hate the use of short hand on here. We have a HUGE space to type in, use it, fill it up, explain yourself properly.

I can ignore typos if they are phonetically correct. I have a dyslexic husband and two dyslexic children, I cope with their writing, I cope here. Unless of course it is a poster I know well....then I can tease grinwink.

If someone comes here being a knob however, I either play along or get irritated. I feel it goes with being here tho....we all have moments like it. In RL we can go hmm and move on. Here though, well...<shrug>....surely as adults we can play occasionally.

LadyIsabellaWrotham Sun 25-Nov-12 19:50:35

I agree that the pedants normally bite their tongues unless the poster is either totally incoherent or being an arse. If you do have a go at an innocent poster for spelling / grammar you will get flamed.

catgirl1976 Sun 25-Nov-12 19:51:16

I hate text speak. It's wrong and it's intentional. Therefore, IMO it is ok to pull people up on it. It's awful, awful, awful and it makes people sound like idiots.

Bad spelling or grammar is unintentional and therefore, IMO is it not ok to pick people up on it.

The only time I have made an exception to this is the time someone said, "catgirl your a cunt". Had to really on that one.

usualsuspect3 Sun 25-Nov-12 19:53:48

I did correct someone who insulted me with 'your a belend' grin

notnowImreading Sun 25-Nov-12 19:55:26

There's a village in Turkey called Belend. Dogus Belend. Made me pmsl every time we drove through it. Maybe you were being a dogus belend...grin

usualsuspect3 Sun 25-Nov-12 19:58:12

lol at Dogus Belend.

Oh I remember that one usual!

YABU. I can't read txt spk without really concentrating and have no intention trying to learn how too.

As for hun and bubz, I don't want to be called hun, I am not anybody's 'hun' so why would I want to be called it by a stranger online? And Bubz is just awful, it's four letters, not cute, call the child baby if you have to ffs.

usualsuspect3 Sun 25-Nov-12 20:01:07

Do you ,Murder?

I think the thread got deleted, I can't remember what it was about though.

psychomum5 Sun 25-Nov-12 20:08:24

I have a particular loathing for '*gawjuss*.

Why? Just, why? It is not short hand, it is not cute, it is just an ugly way of saying gorgeous, which is a lovely word and should be used properly.

Mintyy Sun 25-Nov-12 20:11:58

Did op come back and link lots of recent examples of mumsnetters being mean about grammar and spelling? Have been cooking and eating.

There's a place near Bolton called Nob End. Maybe it should be twinned with Belend in Turkey. grin

Mintyy Sun 25-Nov-12 20:15:28

There is a town near Valencia called Arse. Dh and I made a special trip there to get the photo.

I would so love to send someone a postcard from Arse.

RedToothbrush Sun 25-Nov-12 20:20:35

No problem with poor grammer or spelling.

But text speak? Na You are just a lazy ignorant fuckwit.

The language of this forum is English and making an effort is at least appreciated even if you don't get it perfect. Why should anyone make an effort to reply if you can't be bothered in the first place?

I work near a town called "Wankdorf", can I be twinned too?

<<needy>>

If you don't like text speak, you don't have to take any notice of the posting, do you?

Arisbottle Sun 25-Nov-12 20:22:50

I was discussing MN with someone at work and someone was saying they would never post on here as it was renowned for being packed with alpha mummies who like nothing better than to tear other women to shreds who they perceive as less competent than them.

I thought she was being harsh, however after seeing that thread earlier today I know what she was talking about. Therefore OP you are not being unreasonable. I hate text speak , but I would not ridicule someone for using it. How awful to think that only those with the correct class and educational credentials should receive advice.

wannaBe Sun 25-Nov-12 20:25:22

There is no excuse for text speak. none. Quite apart from anything else, I have no idea why anyone would want to write like that.

As for spelling, I remember quite vividly commenting on a thread once which was about a very sensitive and emotive topic, in which the op required real support (unplanned pregnancy, she was under pressure from her partner to terminate, etc), and a poster coming on straight after my post and pointing out the one spelling mistake I had made. angry it was neither the time or the place to do so and I started a thread about it so as not to highjack the one in question.

Not everyone can spell perfectly. Not everyone uses appropriate grammar, in fact not everyone has English as their first language.

I have a friend who is dislexic and who believes he is stupid because of all the times he was told so as a child. He most certainly is not, and to hear him put himself down like that makes me very sad and it's all because of the likes of people like the ones who come on to threads and scathingly point out peoples' mistakes.

My spelling is not perfect. I am not dislexic, however I use a screenreader which means I never see words written - my computer speaks them to me (I type normally on a laptop keyboard at a rate of 95 words a minute) I grew up reading braille which is contracted down into shorthand, so from the age of 7 I haven't seen a word written down in full. It's not an excuse or a justification but sometimes it does go some way to explaining why I sometimes spell literally rather than correctly. I could write posts out in word but to be frank we're only talking about posts on a website here, it's not that important that my every word needs spell-checking just in case I spelled one wrong.

People need to get over themselves. Not being able to spell is far less offputting than being an arogant twat who points it out.

I love your christmas name Binfull grin

FellatioNelson Sun 25-Nov-12 20:27:05

oh yes Binfull that is genius!

bondigidum Sun 25-Nov-12 20:27:26

I don't mind typos or genuine occasional misspellings. I also don't mind if someone doesn't have perfect grammar. But a post that is all in this ridiculous text talk, absolutely no grammar and all one big chunk rather than paragraphed is just too much.

I don't know how to read text talk for a start. I just look at it and sort of go EH?! confused and i'm not old by any stretch of the imagination. What I like about mumsnet, one big thing that separates it from the others is the fact people don't sign off with an x (every single post, I mean is it really necessary?) and don't refer to their children or other people's as lil man/lady or whatever. I also like that most people can actually spell simple words like what and don't abbreviate everything into text slang.

I can't remember what it was about either, I do know that I cracked up laughing when I read that particular message though. grin It was probably a benefit bashing thread, I always seem to be on those with you

I used to have a friend who wrote in the most ridiculous text speak, I'm pretty certain the point of text speak is to be able to fit more into a message with limited characters, and yet she'd manage to lengthen words! It used to drive me mad trying to read her messages.

notnowImreading Sun 25-Nov-12 20:35:29

wannaBe that is fascinating about Braille - I didn't know how it worked. How have you learned to spell correctly, if you haven't read visually for so long, if you don't mind my asking? For me, it's an entirely visual skill and a word either looks right or it doesn't (I was a flashcards child of the 70s). I would be very interested to know more if you have time.

MrsHoarder Sun 25-Nov-12 20:36:03

There's nothing wrong with judging someone based on how they choose to present themselves to you. So spelling mistakes are fine, some people (like me) are poor spellers however hard they try. But if someone chooses to use txt spk because they think its cool, then judging them for that seems perfectly reasonable.

wannaBe Sun 25-Nov-12 20:45:18

notnow well basically how it works is that letters or combinations spell out specific words or parts of words. so e.g. the braille letter B is short for But, c for Can, d for do and so on. and then there are entirely unrelated braille combinations which spell out letters i.e. there is a combination (braille dot 6 (braille is made up of six dots) and then the letter n) spells out the combination "ation" or braille dots 4-6 and then the letter n spell "sion" but dots 5-6 and n spell "tion" so it's remembering those combinations (which to be fair I usually do) that can be the key.

There is now a bigger issue though in that today's visually impaired children are less likely to learn braille and more likely to just learn to hear words spoken to them by a screenreader.

Strawhatpirate Sun 25-Nov-12 20:50:59

Poor spelling is completely different from txt speak IMO because poor spelling is unintentional. You have to choose to write in txt speak however, its no ones first language.

starsandunicorns Sun 25-Nov-12 20:53:56

Im dislexic I use my my phone as dp is on the laptop. My phone wont let due paragrahs. I forget to use full stops so will say sorry now. I lurk mostly due to my spellings etc was going to start a thread for gentel handing holding tonight but I will leave it. As dont want to be judged for spelling grammer

germyrabbit Sun 25-Nov-12 21:04:02

i didn't particularly have any trouble reading the op on the other thread. the pisstaking was a bit off though.

Arisbottle Sun 25-Nov-12 21:05:50

Many people do MN on their phones, so textspeak is not a totally unreasonable choice.

MoreBeta Sun 25-Nov-12 21:10:50

Sorry but I am 48 and I cant text. I dont understand text speak. I cant read your post if it is in text speak.

wannaBe Sun 25-Nov-12 21:14:46

"Many people do MN on their phones, so textspeak is not a totally unreasonable choice." I disagree. all phones have the full alphabet and punctuation, many phones now even have a querty keyboard. The only reason why people write in text speak is pure lazyness.

I write all my texts, tweets, mn posts etc in full including punctuation - why on earth would anyone want to come across as so thick and lazy.

Arisbottle Sun 25-Nov-12 21:17:32

I speak as someone who has never used textspeak ever in my life, even to text. But MNing on your phone is a pain, my phone posts are littered with errors.

Using textspeak just means you have made a different choice.

My sisters all use textspeak as do my older children, they are not thick or lazy.

fridgepants Sun 25-Nov-12 21:18:01

A friend of mine and i used to be on a trading/buy/sell forum type thing, and it used to really amuse us how people thought it was fine to gouge prices or ask for things for half-nothing as long as you called them 'hun'. I hate it, it's so...insincere.

I dislike the mocking of spelling and grammar, not least because my DM is a poor speller (she would probably be classed as dyslexic these days, not so in the 1950s) but I find text-speak exceptionally hard to read, and that's with 28 years of reading and a degree in linguistics.

SugarMouse1 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:18:30

MurderOfGoths- What has my username got to do with it?

I could easily have chosen a more original one, if I had wanted to?

Your username, btw, sounds childish and pathetic.

Arisbottle Sun 25-Nov-12 21:19:05

I understand textspeak even though I do not use it. It may take me a while to work it out, but generally I start with the assumption that I want to understand people, rather than dismiss them as thick and lazy.

wannaBe Sun 25-Nov-12 21:20:00

but making that choice means you are perceived differently.

writing in text speak makes you appear thick and lazy - you might not want to, you might not be, but that is how you come across if you choose to write in text speak.

And there is an addition to this in that children increasingly using text speak means we are now ending up with a generation of children who are in fact unable to spell. On what planet is that acceptable?

thebody Sun 25-Nov-12 21:20:15

If u just look at the grammar and miss the message then u r a massive twat tbh...

fridgepants Sun 25-Nov-12 21:20:52

Also, my relatives on Facebook write in dialectical text speak, which is doubly hard to understand. I had to read out 'oreyt' and 'r8' to understand what it actually said...

thebody Sun 25-Nov-12 21:22:00

But to add we are all adults here so don't need correcting by other adults..

Obviously we correct our kids but don't think they are desperate to read messages on mumsnet tbh...

wannaBe Sun 25-Nov-12 21:22:59

my screenreader actually pronounces text speak differently to proper speak. I am actually tempted now to make a recording and upload it here since I have had so many queries about it over the years.

fridgepants Sun 25-Nov-12 21:23:02

"I mean, you get ten years of free education in this country, you'd think they could have at least taught people to spell.

All you are proving with you're incoherent posts"

lol lol lol

germyrabbit Sun 25-Nov-12 21:23:36

i don't really judge people on how they write on the internet. to me it really isn't that important and i certainly would not suggest they were 'thick'

this site really is quite silly sometimes

SomethingOnce Sun 25-Nov-12 21:24:17

Everything wheresmespecs said.

Also, to those who judge text speak users so harshly, claiming that they themselves are so superior that they are unable even to understand it:

Wot r u? A bit fick?

SugarMouse1 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:25:25

Poor spelling and grammar has nothing to do with being on benefits- but it seems more prevalent on those that are.

Anyone who thinks I am being snobbish about Netmums should check out some of the posts- such inarticulate, poorly spelled crap! Most primary kids could write something better.

Also, there are loads of people on Netmums with about four kids who live on benefits, and anybody who dares disagree with that lifestyle choice is denounced. The Mods are clearly the same- they ban people just for having an alternative view!

wannaBe Sun 25-Nov-12 21:28:35

oh I can read it, I just choose not to.

If someone can't actually be bothered to make the effort to write in proper words then I don't see why anyone else should be bothered to read it.

notnowImreading Sun 25-Nov-12 21:29:04

Thanks wannaBe. Do you use a Braille keyboard or an ordinary qwerty board?

Arisbottle Sun 25-Nov-12 21:31:54

I have four children, if something happened we may need benefits, do we suddenly become less valuable people?

fridgepants Sun 25-Nov-12 21:32:02

I don't judge users harshly, I just can't understand this. I've been able to read since I was two, so I don't think it's a problem with me or my reading comprehension.

I mind less in a text message, sometimes brevity has to win out, but a paragraph of it is so difficult to parse and unnecessary when you have a keyboard and no character limit.

wannaBe Sun 25-Nov-12 21:32:48

an ordinary qwerty one. I've been touch-typing since I was seven.

fridgepants Sun 25-Nov-12 21:33:09

Sweet Jebus, this is not a thread for bellowing about being on benefits as a 'lifestyle choice'. 10/10 trolling, though.

Portofino Sun 25-Nov-12 21:33:27

I have NO issue with spelling mistakes but cannot abide text speak. Saying that,I would not judge anyone on their spelling/grammar (openly) unless it was in pedantic post criticising someone else - and this has been known....

germyrabbit Sun 25-Nov-12 21:34:35

dear me, anyway the four children judginess apart, i am heartened to read that some people on mn don't pre-judge on people based on whether they use text speak or not

InSPsFanjoNoOneHearsYouScream Sun 25-Nov-12 21:39:25

Y iz u all getin lairy?

SugarMouse1 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:42:03

Arisbottle-

I'm talking about people who have done it knowing full well that they could not afford the children. Also, those who make endless excuses about why they are unwilling to work.

tittytittyhanghang Sun 25-Nov-12 21:43:48

germyrabbit, i sadly feel that we are most definitely in the minority here!

SugarMouse1 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:44:01

fridgepants- Why isn't it a lifestyle choice exactly, then?

Besides, lack of education is also partly a choice. There are free adult literacy courses available and we still have some free public libraries.

usualsuspect3 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:45:13

Whats wrong with being lazy?

Sugarmouse have you tried the Daily Mail comments page?

I think it would suit you.

SugarMouse1 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:46:12

WannaBe- there are also plenty of adults who can't spell and would struggle even to fill a form in!

"MurderOfGoths- What has my username got to do with it?"

I figured if you were going to be picky and make assumptions about people based on very little that you wouldn't mind if someone did the same to you? Obviously I was wrong. Don't dish it out if you can't take it. HTH.

SugarMouse1 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:46:58

usualsuspect- No, its full of absolute rubbish!

psychomum5 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:47:14

I have five children. We have benefits, but the ones who I think most people don;t count as such - ie, child benefit and tax credits.

I don;t like netmums, but I don;t like it because their use of tickers and all the other gumph on each posts quite literally hurts my eyes and makes their posts impossible for me to read.

I also hate the use of the txt spk on there, but that is low down on my reasons to hate it.

"Also, there are loads of people on Netmums with about four kids who live on benefits, and anybody who dares disagree with that lifestyle choice "

Hahaha, has anyone ever told you that your views bear a striking resemblance to that of an utter twat?

SugarMouse1 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:48:21

MurderOfGoths-

No, I don't care that you did that, just merely asking.

psychomum5 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:48:23

and I dont mean my comments on benefits to get at those who DO need to rely on the other type BTW...not sure how I am being read on that comment blush

Good to see you didn't care enough to pick that out of all the things I said to you grin

psychomum5 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:49:48

what I do mean is that, in some ways, ALL of us here are in receipt of benefits, and so not one of us can judge anyone else on them.

tbvh

well, at the moment. Until the sodding government statch them away from higher earners.

SugarMouse1 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:50:18

MurderOfGoths- You would clearly be better suited to Netmums, if you can't accept that someone else has a different view to yourself.

Oh I can accept it, doesn't mean I'll keep quiet about it. If you are going to make daft generalisations about people I feel perfectly entitled to pull you up on it.

PS. I used the word entitled just for you. I assume it was going to appear in one of your posts eventually?

SugarMouse1 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:52:56

psychomum- Taxpayers should get a say in how their taxes are being spent.

Also, not everyone has five children, so some are using the public services/benefits system a hell of a lot more then others!

scottishmummy Sun 25-Nov-12 21:53:19

cold day in hell when i pay heed to spelling pedants.all harridans
post in style that suits you and accept some will likey,some will not
some on mn need to get a grip on their ego and remit.only mnhq set rules.not other posters

SugarMouse1 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:55:48

MurderofGoths-

Those are not ridiculous generalisations. Many people on Netmums are perfectly open about how much they are claiming in benefits. That is what my opinion is based on, not the spelling and grammar.

MrsDeVere Sun 25-Nov-12 21:57:13

Netmums is full of people slagging off people on benefits and making outrageous claims about how much people get.

scottishmummy Sun 25-Nov-12 22:01:39

some mn posters get all superior and up selves when discussing netmums
its only a website with similar name,not the mn nemesis
all the juvenile sniping is petty.oh nm too sparkly,mn is much more urbane,its full of hunnies

usualsuspect3 Sun 25-Nov-12 22:01:52

I bet Sugarmouse has a lovely sparkley ticker on Netmums.

****2 hours since I last benefit bashed***

psychomum5 Sun 25-Nov-12 22:02:17

so am I to look forward to burning in hell then for having had my five??

tittytittyhanghang Sun 25-Nov-12 22:02:46

yay to scottishmummy, i agree wholeheartedly. I even understand why people dont like text speak/huns etc. But as someone said upthread they just don't bother to read it and go on to the next thread. It the people who actually read and obviously understand it enough to then ridicule and belittle the op, making arrogant assumption such as the op must be a thick chavvy type benefit scrounger. (Fair dos thats probaby an over exaggeration but you get my drift).It just fucks me off a little! Theres no need.

scottishmummy Sun 25-Nov-12 22:03:53

dont get supposed the rivalry between two sites
mn has its heidcases,so does netmums
regardless of which site used its all still words on a screen

Shakey1500 Sun 25-Nov-12 22:04:02

<whispers>

Is it too late and would it be terrible 'orrible of me (on this fred in particular) that the line "Romeo, Romeo...wherfore art thou Romeo" doesn't actually mean/infer "Romeo..where are you?" or "Romeo, wherr da fuck iz u?" as SP so eloquently put grin ?

It's Juliet bemoaning that (having just met Romeo) at the partay, and discovering that he's from "that" family. So more of a "Romeo, Romeo, out of all the people I could have fallen in love with at first sight, WHY did you have to be one of them??"

Or in SP fashion "Romeo, Romeo, aw nooo man why iz it u av hapn'd to be frm da fmly dat my family diss and fite wiv, like alllll de time?"

<runs away>

usualsuspect3 Sun 25-Nov-12 22:05:37

I don't like the NM V MN bollocks either.

amillionyears Sun 25-Nov-12 22:07:29

SugarMouse1 justs wants to wind people up.

It is very easy to do that if you have a mind to.

psychomum5 Sun 25-Nov-12 22:08:11

and just so you know.....every single person in the country is a tax payer.

we are taxed on earnings
taxed on savings
tax is added to everything we buy, bar non luxury food and childrens clothing (maybe a few other things too but those are the main).

we are taxed on petrol. then taxed on the tax on petrol

and we are all getting the benefit of those taxes. if you use the roads and pavements, the upkeep of which comes out of taxes, which we all pay.

if we use a GP, have any type of treatment, again, we reap the benefits.

education for all is paid for out of the taxes we pay.

and our bins are collected by people who are paid for out of our taxes.

and guess what.....my five children will one day work, and pay taxes, and contribute to the money which will help pay for your pension and road and health usage.

I have absolutely no problem with how my taxes are used to help support those in need. Even those who use them as a lifestyle choice. Sadly they are the one who have had the least out of society as they are looked down upon and not helped to educate themselves out of that hole.

thebody Sun 25-Nov-12 22:09:07

God yawn!

scottishmummy Sun 25-Nov-12 22:12:28

on mn people post in preferred style such as the fake stage direction, pretending to run away?
no particular reason other than personal preference for attempting to add dramatic emphasis
thats the rub we all post in way we want,there no mn housestyle.despite what big heids assert

SomethingOnce Sun 25-Nov-12 22:14:01

A couple of assumptions on this thread, I think. Firstly, that illiterate is the same as unintelligent; and secondly, that using text speak is a lazy choice.

But, y'know, some intelligent people have been failed by the education system.

scottishmummy Sun 25-Nov-12 22:17:22

in work i have to be precise and exacting all week
mn is recreational blah, and no isnt significant enough for me to spellcheck.i dont
it make me laugh when people try post the mn rules,the style yhey prefer as if its a universally accepted guideline.it isnt

amillionyears Sun 25-Nov-12 22:19:03

I thought that was why you did it.
It is your way of letting your hair down so to speak.

"Those are not ridiculous generalisations. Many people on Netmums are perfectly open about how much they are claiming in benefits."

Ah yes, and they've all told you it's a "lifestyle choice" it is have they? Also funny how they are apparently illiterate and yet you are totally able to understand them enough to know so much about their "lifestyle choices"

usual Or maybe it's
***2 hours since I last forgot to engage brain before posting***

scottishmummy Sun 25-Nov-12 22:23:45

well yes essentially as mn to me is recreational blether,a wee foray across threads
and i want to pile in, say my bit read everyone else bit,and enjoy mn

usualsuspect3 Sun 25-Nov-12 22:26:21

MN is a chat site, for chatting. Having conversations, nothing more.

If I can read the post thats good enough for me.

scottishmummy Sun 25-Nov-12 22:30:26

yep.some people try to impose a gravitas or their preference on mn
and when the do gavel as if it is final and they have spoken,that cracks me up
its a web forum,not that significant,not worth getting in a spin about so called etiquette

CoteDAzur Sun 25-Nov-12 22:40:35

YABU.

scottishmummy Sun 25-Nov-12 22:47:05

the spelling pedants and we do it like this on mn are just controlling
its a hark back to the we done that already,search the archives put-downs of yore
but fortunately no one listens to or acts upon the spelling pedants advice.or the gavel

MorrisZapp Sun 25-Nov-12 22:49:27

The gavel is a joke.

scottishmummy Sun 25-Nov-12 22:51:02

its also passive aggressive, as in shut up one has spoken

SomethingOnce Sun 25-Nov-12 23:05:49

No, it isn't. Really, it isn't [gavel]

scottishmummy Sun 25-Nov-12 23:08:31

well you would say that wouldnt you,naturally i dont agree

MorrisZapp Sun 25-Nov-12 23:12:19

It isn't passive aggressive at all. It's just a joke, usually used after knowingly getting het up about something superficial or trivial.

scottishmummy Sun 25-Nov-12 23:16:59

imo it can also be passive aggrsive, ive seen it used in attempt to stifle or divert

SomethingOnce Sun 25-Nov-12 23:31:40

Shut up, one has spoken.

scottishmummy Sun 25-Nov-12 23:34:03

indeed,but one hasnt listened

SomethingOnce Sun 25-Nov-12 23:34:07

Everybody takes the gavel seriously and acts on it [gavel]

scottishmummy Sun 25-Nov-12 23:34:53

gavel just makes me laugh.i imagine a wizened auld wummin

SomethingOnce Sun 25-Nov-12 23:39:17

DP just shouted 'Not far wrong there' and [gavel]led. The fucker.

VestaCurry Sun 25-Nov-12 23:40:04

There doesn't seem to be much allowance for eg dyslexia on here, which I find shocking. I don't remember the grammar and spelling police swooping in the earlier Mumsnet years, but the site had become huge. Still, if I were dyslexic I would not always feel welcome on here sad.

scottishmummy Sun 25-Nov-12 23:48:09

its a shame people full unwelcome on basis of spelling pedants
as i see it post,expect comment,riposte on your threads
nit picking about syntax,its rude

FellatioNelson Mon 26-Nov-12 06:25:48

Actually I don't think they are made to feel unwelcome purely because of spelling and grammar sloppiness, although it does rankle. I think it's more about what they say, rather than how clumsily they say it. As someone said on another thread yesterday, there is a culture of wanting to preserve the character of the site, and that causes some people to guard it jealously and put up barriers to keep certain people out.

I also think that some people come onto MN and it changes them; they discover a whole new elite world that they want to be part of. They become more aspirational, more aware of what and what is not considered socially acceptable among the middle classes and the educated, they become more discerning about things like food, or education, they may make an effort to modify their speech etc, as the MN effect starts to rub off on them. And they sometimes need to show they 'get it' at every turn; prove they are 'one of us' which why we get so many hackneyed, cliched posts about 'Oh, haha, my DS is so middle class - he asked me for olives in the middle of Waitrose the other day! How embarrassing!' said with utter glee. I think they can be the ones who are hardest on the poor unsuspecting pariahs who stumble onto here - they want to earn their MN Intelligensia stripes, and they think that's the way to do it.

I think there is a subconscious need to dissuade people from sticking around if we collectively sense that the fit is not right. Like when Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman goes into the posh boutique and the ladies look her up and down and say 'I'm sorry dear, we don't have anything suitable for you in here.' grin

Let's face it, while it's pretty unpleasant to witness it at times if it didn't happen and we were equally welcoming to all, we'd soon be just like netmums and 80% of us would no longer want to be here. The conversation would bore us and appall us in equal measure. Netmums has its place; it serves its demographic well, but we are not (by and large) its core/target demographic and I doubt they want us lot on there either, quite honestly. Well, the owners of the site might, as we probably have more disposable income (on average) which is good for bringing in advertising revenue, but I doubt we'd be very welcome on the boards, with our po-faced standards and our use of big words, and what with us thinking we are better than the little people. And we do - let's face it otherwise we'd be over there. No point denying it.

It's like when people go for years to a particular favourite holiday spot and then getting all huffy and indignant when it is discovered by the masses in football shirts who lower the tone. We are the site that has a sign outside saying 'No baseball caps allowed'. But we all know it's not because of the baseball caps themselves - it's because of the stereotypical behaviour of the people who wear them. We all secretly know that if David Milliband walked into MN in a baseball cap, we'd turn a blind eye, because we'd trust him not to put a chair over our head if we looked at his bird. wink

There are sound reasons for not allowing text speak on MN, but you've got to admit it's also handy for weeding out the undesirables, whilst conveniently taking the moral high ground about dyslexia and people who are forrin. wink

I am not condoning any of the above BTW, I just think there is an unavoidable element of human nature about it. I do not approve when it gets too obvious and too nasty though. Especially if the poster sounds vulnerable and unhappy. But apart from a handful of people who have a bully mentality I honestly think that rarely happens.

scottishmummy Mon 26-Nov-12 06:41:35

interesting post, Imo there's not mn us.I've never thought of mn as critical mass
As with everything people may/not have affinities and try align selves
hence self proclaimed cliques,quiches and the lufflys voting for fave mn

Oblomov Mon 26-Nov-12 06:55:05

I hate text speak. So no, that's not o.k.
Hate grammar pickers, but they now have their own pendants corner, so thats' o.k.
I am the worlds worst typist. And have to spellcheck all my posts , prior to posting and often miss 'tha't, which I always type as 'thta' and always have to correct, often missing. Drives me mad.
Hopefully others reading my posts are more forgiving.I had to make 4 corrections to get that post right!!

scaevola Mon 26-Nov-12 07:17:17

I think OP has missed the point spectacularly.

MN is open to anyone who has Internet access.

But MN has it's norms, and no text-speak is one of them.

You wouldn't send your DD to Cubs in a Brownie uniform and then complain when she was asked to wear the right uniform. MN does have a poistion against text-speak (it was linked way earlier on the thread).

Posters who wish to use text-speak should find a place where doing so does not breach the site guidelines, and which has a community which is happy for that form of language. MN is not that place.

scaevola Mon 26-Nov-12 07:21:07

Oblomov go and have a look round Pedants' Corner.

It's not full of nit-pickers (I suspect there is no cross-over between them and people who are just rude to other posters for whatever reason they choose that day). There are some great threads about the history of the language and evolution of words, as well as friendly help for those who enquire about language issues.

TanteRose Mon 26-Nov-12 07:45:08

grin at Shakey
"Romeo, Romeo, aw nooo man why iz it u av hapn'd to be frm da fmly dat my family diss and fite wiv, like alllll de time?"

genius!

FunBagFreddie Mon 26-Nov-12 07:55:46

Maybe the people on here who use text speak are youngsters. I used to work at a place where all the younger people wrote emails in text speak and I'm not even sure that they knew how to write the Queen's English. The standard of education has gone way down I tell you.

germyrabbit Mon 26-Nov-12 07:56:09

winces at 'weeding out the undesirables'

Oblomov Mon 26-Nov-12 07:57:13

vola, I was only teasing. I do know some of thew serious threads that people talk about where words originate and latin etc.
I was refering to , many of that nasty nit pickers, picking on typing or words, prior to there ever being a Pendants Corner topic. I remember when the topics was only about 20 choices wide !!

fridgepants Mon 26-Nov-12 10:18:50

FunbagFreddie - in my experience it's older people who use text speak these days, now that the 'coolest' phones have autocorrect.

FunBagFreddie Mon 26-Nov-12 12:33:17

fridgepants - seriously? But what would I know, I don't even have a mobile phone these days.

AlienRefluxLooksLikeSnow Mon 26-Nov-12 12:37:22

If you don't like the forum etiquette, fuck off to netmums where they love the hun,lolz,bubz and hubby shite. HTH grin

FunBagFreddie Mon 26-Nov-12 12:48:11

It's worth mentioning at this point, that internet abbreviations aren't the same as text speak.

CoteDAzur Mon 26-Nov-12 12:58:01

"Pendants corner" grin

CoteDAzur Mon 26-Nov-12 12:59:00

What Alien said. OP should take her advice and fuck the fuck off to places where no such basic standard of written communication is upheld.

MrsDeVere Mon 26-Nov-12 13:25:30

Fucking hell that's a bit OTT.

Maryz Mon 26-Nov-12 13:29:18

It's the grammer police again shock

MissCellania Mon 26-Nov-12 13:31:24

grammar police, don't you mean?

wink

Maryz Mon 26-Nov-12 13:31:44

And I know I said grammer.

Has anyone managed to link to the mn policy on txtspk which explains that it is hard for screen readers to read for people who need such things due to poor sight or other extra needs?

Maryz Mon 26-Nov-12 13:32:33

Sorry, Miss, x-posted. I said grammer on purpose. There is a lovely thread which I think is in classics complaining about the grammer police.

iirc, the op was shoked, discusted and apauled by them grin

CoteDAzur Mon 26-Nov-12 13:33:00

I'm sure you'll manage, Maryz.

LadyBeagle Mon 26-Nov-12 13:33:49

I really can't read text speak though, it takes me ages.
It's like doing a translation in my French O'level, and having to go through every word to make the sentence understandable.
It's really, really hard.
<whines.

Maryz Yep, it's somewhere way up thread.

MrsDeVere Mon 26-Nov-12 13:52:34

Discusting is one of my favourite words.
I only have to type it for certain friends to know exactly what I am on about grin

FellatioNelson Mon 26-Nov-12 14:06:21

my particular favourite is perfetic grin

MrsDeVere Mon 26-Nov-12 14:15:46

My spelling is a bit crap TBH. But discusting just says so much more than its intended meaning.

LadyBeagle Mon 26-Nov-12 14:25:10

I like I'm discusted and appauled, usually written in shouty capitals.

MrsDeVere Mon 26-Nov-12 14:26:52

the words peedo and/or benefit scrounger are usually used in the same paragraph.

Mintyy Mon 26-Nov-12 14:52:26

My personal favourite is say lavvie (c'est la vie). Still makes me chortle.

My 11 year old dd was being given a lift home by her friend's dad the other day. He is called Jean-Pierre. She texted that "Xompier" was giving her a lift home. Guess she has never seen it written down before, bless her!

MardyBra Mon 26-Nov-12 15:49:00

I know it's 3 pages back, but Shakey = genius.

neriberi Mon 26-Nov-12 16:36:19

I used to frequent dance music forums until I became pregnant (about 2 years ago) then I joined MN and gave up the dance music forums because I could no longer relate to the people I knew on there, some of whom I counted as RL friends, but then its funny what happens to your friendship circle when you have children. I most definitely consider myself a lurker more than a poster because I find the MN terrifying and captivating in equal measure (more terrifying btw). The weirdest thing is that MN is no different to the any of the music forums I used to trawl, there is a hierarchy and a hidden "code" that's adhered too.

For the record, I can't abide text speak BUT I do love the challenge of reading it AND I think it's amazing that people can have entire conversations this way and to be controversial I don't think some parts of text speak are any different from some of the acronyms people use...

I will now go back to lurking!

acceptableinthe80s Mon 26-Nov-12 16:37:39

fellatio you're post is a joke right? Women who come on here want to be like you or 'we' whoever the fuck we is. Oh yes please can I join your elite, then my life will be completely revolutionized.
Seriously deluded springs to mind. You are aware this is just a website?

pictish Mon 26-Nov-12 16:44:09

Weeding out undesirables? Really? hmm

Well I couldn't give a toss whether someone can spell or not.

As far as I am concerned the bad spellers and txt speakers are all welcome here.

As for wanting to live up to being socially acceptable to the middle classes? Hmm that might be your motivation fellatio but it sure isn't mine.
I am what am, like it or lump it. There are loads of us don't feel the need to fall in with, or impress anyone here. Even if you do.

scottishmummy Mon 26-Nov-12 16:46:45

scaveola,you've spectacularly missed point.^there's no mn rule stating no txt speak^
might be your individual preference/foible but it's not a universally accepted rule
and frankly you're not moderator so tis not up to you to set desired standards on mn

pictish Mon 26-Nov-12 16:49:14

Since when was text speak against the 'rules'.
It's not is it? That's just nonsense.

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 16:52:13

I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than fit into the supposed 'MN type'

<sits on undesirables bench>

scottishmummy Mon 26-Nov-12 16:56:21

Christ alive I'd hate to be a luffly or the right mn sort.if there's a mn sort I hope I'm not it
how very pompous to be professing what sort of site mn is,what meets expected standards
you see here the rub,some of you have gotten all very its like this when no one asked your opinion

MardyBra Mon 26-Nov-12 17:02:20

To give Fellatio her due, she did say that she didn't condone behaviour to weed out the undesirables.

pictish Mon 26-Nov-12 17:04:25

Let's face it, while it's pretty unpleasant to witness it at times if it didn't happen and we were equally welcoming to all, we'd soon be just like netmums and 80% of us would no longer want to be here.

If that's the case (which it bloody isn't) then we would do well to be rid of your 80% anyway. Leave it to the remaining 20% who are clever enough to realise that poor spelling or grammar are no indication of intelligence or need.

Clearly being able to spell indicates nothing of a good character does it?

LadyBeagle Mon 26-Nov-12 17:04:27

I don't agree at all Fellatio.
Mn is all sorts these days, the majority, who are smart funny women who are everything from cleaners to company directors.
And even people like me who will be on benefits for the winter, until tourist season starts again.
Which is why I like it and will stick with it.
I still don't like text speak though and I'm far too old and lazy to want to learn.

scottishmummy Mon 26-Nov-12 17:11:27

people apparently don't like mummynames on mn,preferring an obscure literary refernce
some people believe their foible/preference is a mn norm.without any substantce
I suspect same such people reckon mn gorn to dogs,not like ole days

MardyBra Mon 26-Nov-12 17:16:16

Generally the posters who have mummy names are not that pithy. There are exceptions. smile

LadyIsabellaWrotham Mon 26-Nov-12 17:17:15

I reckon we need eight different fora to reflect our individual stances on apostrophes, swearing/robust language and whether the plural of anecdotes is data. People on opposite sides of any of those divides are always going to have trouble playing nicely together because their basic rules of debate are so different.

What we don't need is different fora for rich/poor, right/left, middle/working class. The very best serious MN discussions represent all sides and backgrounds with different views genuinely sharing debate.

Maryz Mon 26-Nov-12 17:26:27

pictish, it isn't poor spelling and grammar. 90% of us, or more, agree that correcting people on spelling and grammar isn't on.

It's deliberat txtspk that the majority of posters don't want.

And it is against guidelines - I can't find the exact link, but it in relation to screenreaders and people who have disabilities making it much harder for them to read txtspk. I will find the link later.

pictish Mon 26-Nov-12 17:31:50

What does it matter?

If a post is in text speak you are quite at liberty to ignore it. Those of us who don't mind it can reply if we'd like to.

I don't see the need for launching on and issuing the wagging finger about it though.

Don't like it? Leave it then.

3b1g Mon 26-Nov-12 17:32:08

It's in the talk guidelines. One way to get the link is to wait for someone's post to be deleted: a link is usually provided then! grin

FellatioNelson Mon 26-Nov-12 17:32:44

yes, the post is, if not a joke exactly, then at least heavily laced with irony. I thought that came across but obviously not.

And when I say and 'we' I do mean that in the loosest sense - I agree that we are not a critical mass in terms of all being the same, all having the same backgrounds, etc, but I do think that to a large extent 'we' have the same values. I do think that MN has a very strong identity based around those largely shared values, and if you arrive at MN not sharing them (especially) but you stick round long enough you soon become institutionalised and brain-washed. grin

The phrase 'weed out the undesirables' was definitely tongue in cheek. My point was that although we officially cite the reasons for disliking text speak as being unsuitable for dyslexics and people with English as a foreign language, the subtext for 'our' reasoning is 'and it makes it makes us think you are probably a bit thick and you won't like it here because you won't be able to keep up with our lightening quick minds.' wink

You can practically feel the frosty air of condescension that comes through on those threads. There is no point in pretending otherwise.

BIWI Mon 26-Nov-12 17:34:32

As no-one seems to bother clicking on the link about the guidelines for text speak, here it is, in full:

"Mumsnet's accessibility policy

We want as many people as possible to have the chance to be unreasonable and discuss the pros and cons of Greggs sausage rolls.
So, where possible, we consider accessibility in Mumsnet's design and content, especially regarding members who are partially sighted or use screen readers to access the site.
The techs are going to strive to help us meet our responsibilities under the Disabilities Discrimination Act, in particular, the priority 1 and priority 2 guidelines defined in the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG). (For more info, see http://www.w3.org/WAI/).
You can do your bit by avoiding unnecessary punctuation (appalling punctuation will be jumped on in pedants' corner) especially in Talk thread titles.
Text speak (or txt spk) is obviously an abomination, but should also be avoided to help members who use screen readers (strangely, they don't find it very interesting to hear "asterisk, asterisk, asterisk" repeated ad nauseam in a monotone).
If you've got any accessibility suggestions, gripes or questions, please email access@mumsnet.com and we'll do our best to address them. (Alternatively, just start a thread called Am I Being Unreasonable to want to access Mumsnet?)

Best,
Mumsnet Towers"

So you can see - we have been asked to avoid using it.

pictish Mon 26-Nov-12 17:35:42

Oh thank fuck fellatio! grin

And I agree. It sucks.

FellatioNelson Mon 26-Nov-12 17:36:26

yes, the post is, if not a joke exactly, then at least heavily laced with irony. I thought that came across but obviously not.

And when I say and 'we' I do mean that in the loosest sense - I agree that we are not a critical mass in terms of all being the same, all having the same backgrounds, etc, but I do think that to a large extent 'we' have the same values. I do think that MN has a very strong identity based around those largely shared values, and if you arrive at MN not sharing them (especially) but you stick round long enough you soon become institutionalised and brain-washed. grin

The phrase 'weed out the undesirables' was definitely tongue in cheek. My point was that although we officially cite the reasons for disliking text speak as being unsuitable for dyslexics and people with English as a foreign language, the subtext for 'our' reasoning is 'and it makes it makes us think you are probably a bit thick and you won't like it here because you won't be able to keep up with our lightening quick minds.' wink

You can practically feel the frosty air of condescension that comes through on those threads. There is no point in pretending otherwise.

3b1g Mon 26-Nov-12 17:36:34

While we're on the subject of talk guidelines: for a thread that is clearly about another thread, this one has lasted much longer than I was expecting it to.

pictish Mon 26-Nov-12 17:36:38

Aye - but it's not a rule, and new people to the site know nothing about it, so it's a moot point.

FellatioNelson Mon 26-Nov-12 17:36:43

whoops, sorry.

pictish Mon 26-Nov-12 17:39:26

And also - there are reasonable ways of saying that text speak is discouraged for the reason stated.

It doesn't have to be "Oh text speak...cba with that because you're obviously rough and common and not up to my snooty standards.

GrumpyCynicalBastard Mon 26-Nov-12 17:41:12

Fellatio your post - here, this one .... Mon 26-Nov-12 06:25:48 - was one of the most eloquent and sensible posts I think I've ever read on here.

<<<wipes bum-skin from lips>>> grin

scottishmummy Mon 26-Nov-12 17:42:19

mn talk none of it is stringently enforced,contrary to what's been said there isn't a housestyle
given there mummynames,cutesy name sign offs,capitals no one adhere to rules
I've not seen mnhq delete or admonish about txt,long sign offs etc.swearing and abuse yes

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 26-Nov-12 17:43:07

BIWI

That quote is interesting. Aside form the accessibilty/readability, it does say that text speak is "obviously an abomination"

So (and I know that's tongue in cheek), there is norm, and it's dictated by MNHQ itself.

Have to say, I think textspeak is pretty annoying

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 17:46:37

The norm is to think MN is not for the 'likes of you'

Sorry, I don't want to be part of that norm.

pictish Mon 26-Nov-12 17:48:06

Neither do I.
I don't think like that.

FellatioNelson Mon 26-Nov-12 17:49:05

Why thank you Grumpy. I am relieved that at least somebody gets it!

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 17:49:37

I get it, I don't agree with it though grin

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 26-Nov-12 17:49:55

usual

I don't agree with that norm either.

I agree with the "I don't like text speak" norm.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 26-Nov-12 17:53:43

Back to the OP. I think all genuine posters are welcomed, on the whole.

And I agree it's extremely rude to pick someone up on their spelling, unless they did it to you first.

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 17:55:05

Theres a whole thread from people who feel they don't fit in on MN.

I think thats kinda sad really, and not something that MN should be proud of.

scottishmummy Mon 26-Nov-12 17:57:39

if you seek site free of txt speak,no spelling error,high floutin yap.set up own forum
oh aye?that's been done and no one liked it,and the dissenters all came back
as I see it,post.you'll get response you like, some you don't.and don't take seriously

FellatioNelson Mon 26-Nov-12 17:58:36

That's right usual. It is the norm. We (or 'we') make good job of uttering soothing platitudes about inclusivity and tolerance and acceptance of all sorts, rank notwithstanding, but sometimes it's nothing but patronising hot air as 'we' are secretly thinking 'this place is not for the likes of you.'

But we are very right-on over here so we'll pretend to include you for a bit and hope you'll soon get bored and go away and stop cluttering up our nice smug site of funny, clever people with your dull waffle about your 'lil man'

Admit it.

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 18:02:27

I'm still here.

You can't get rid of me grin

The thing is, I probably have more in common with the lil man posters than the smug funny clever ones.

scottishmummy Mon 26-Nov-12 18:03:01

speak for yourself.best mn delutter was the moldies leaving,and departures from fem topics
I will like or dispurte any thread depending on content.not the sort of poster

scottishmummy Mon 26-Nov-12 18:06:59

I recall early on mn someone admonishing my post style.too scottish apparently
I also recall fastidiously ignoring the home counties lufflys,and naice ham crew
I'm not having a harrumphing mc horah tell me how to post. jog on sister

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 18:08:05

Me neither SM.

Innit.

FellatioNelson Mon 26-Nov-12 18:08:56

That thread about people who feel they don't fit in is very interesting. They have really homed in on the more stereotypical middle class element, talking about all the cliches; organic food for baby, extra curricular activities, learning cello and mandarin, no TV for the under 5s, everyone lives 'in a castle' everyone must have a degree, one must never shop in Iceland etc, etc. Of course that by no means represents the reality for all or most of us, as I tried to point out - but that does not matter to them. They are the things they have observed as common themes, and have latched onto as being 'normal' for 'us' and alien to them - as though 'we' all do those things and they are the outsiders.

FellatioNelson Mon 26-Nov-12 18:10:10

oh sorry usual, that post sounded as though it was directed specifically at you and about you. shock I do apologise. shock

grin But you get my drift.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 26-Nov-12 18:12:11

Yes, Fellatio. I agree.

usual

you say you are more like the lil man posters, and yet you choose not to post like them? Why is that?

And how do you know I also don't have more in common with them as well? You don't. We all just assume.

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 18:12:28

MN can seem a bit like that though.It's full of MC cliches,only today I read that the WC types don't eat vegetables grin

It makes me laugh TBH.

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 18:14:26

I don't post in text speak, no.

But I don't assume someone is thick and not worth bothering with if they do.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 26-Nov-12 18:16:28

usual

Sorry, that sounded a bit attacking. Did not mean it to. Just think aloud.

For me, from a working class background (and accent) but now deffo MC, I've always quite enjoyed surprising people who would underestimate me. I try do that by what I say and how I write. I think that (and my age) is why I don't like text speak.

Maryz Mon 26-Nov-12 18:16:41

Thank you BIWI, I've been looking for that all day, and not been able to find it. And I have no idea why confused.

I know it's there. I've found lots of links to guidelines, but I can't find that exact extract anywhere <weeps>

Maryz Mon 26-Nov-12 18:17:53

Does anyone else have a vision of a very Highland Scottish voice doing the screen-reader version of ScottishMummy's posts for Wannabe grin

LineRunner Mon 26-Nov-12 18:18:10

I don't believe a lot of it anyway.

And I'm grateful for the rest of it. Mostly. smile

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 18:19:21

I don't feel the need to prove myself to anyone on MN.

I would never declare my class on here. Although my WC chip probably gives me away. grin

scottishmummy Mon 26-Nov-12 18:21:31

isn't that why pedants corner was created,stop em annoying folk,being snippy
keep em all In one place like craggy island for picky gits
and tbh the lufflys,naice life horahs and lil man can coexist on mn,it's bie enough

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 26-Nov-12 18:21:55

usual

Oh no, I don't feel that need. No-one knows me. But it's a spillover from that chip.

Maryz Mon 26-Nov-12 18:24:20

Your list is interesting, Fell. I don't think I would fit in with any of those cliches, but might well be considered MC here (Ireland, except we don't really have a class system).

Personally I would put all those down to pfb-ish-ness (or self-importance) rather than being middle class.

And having been brought up by a mum who would have been considered Protestant aristocracy a couple of generations ago, and a dad who came from a poor Catholic background (religion is very relevant here), if there is one thing I really don't like it's snobbery. And the other thing I really don't like is inverse-snobbery - which is just snobbey with an added shoulder chip hmm.

LineRunner Mon 26-Nov-12 18:27:56

MaryZ, you are like Lil Sybil off of Downton Abbey.

Maryz Mon 26-Nov-12 18:31:06

Yup, I'm not sure what "class" I should be in.

Can I be equally irritated by them all?

I think for the most part you end up seeing what you want or expect to see on here.

I always find the middle class clichés a bit odd because for the most part I see more people taking the piss out of them than actually living them.

toofattorun Mon 26-Nov-12 18:34:05

U ok Hun?

Arisbottle Mon 26-Nov-12 18:57:23

This thread is making MN sound a very cold, snobbish in appealing place to be. I may have more time to read my books I think.

Arisbottle Mon 26-Nov-12 18:58:51

Unappealing .

Can't really expect a working class oik like me to spell, off to check out netmums.

OliviaMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 26-Nov-12 19:17:42

Peace and love.

Roseformeplease Mon 26-Nov-12 19:25:45

Language has one purpose, and one purpose only, communication. If you don't communicate clearly and effectively you do not have as many readers. If you are writing on an Internet forum, presumably you want people to read what you say. Therefore, you need to write in a way that makes that communication possible. Language does matter because, without it, we are alone.

Tweasels Mon 26-Nov-12 19:44:21

I don't think this thread is making MN seem unappealing. That other thread about "not fitting in" is worse, full of inaccurate stereotyping which if were reversed would be deleted.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a little self regulation to stop the forum turning more like some other forums. No one should be pulled up for spelling or grammatical errors, but there's nothing wrong with a little pointer here and there as to the way things are around here. That way people can choose if the forum is for them or not.

In the same way that many of use wouldn't use NM, nothing against it, it just doesn't suit our foul mouthed needs.

scottishmummy Mon 26-Nov-12 19:47:02

no,language has conscious and unconscious function.the language is judged on content,class
we make assumptions based on language,some favorable.some not
why it's a biggie is we all read the words on the screen and appraise and exhibit preferences

Yabu
Text speak is surely for teens who don't know any better, or for Twitter emergencies.

Anywhere where there is no character limit renders it rude and pointless, and does leave one open to being flamed or assumptions being made regards your intellect.

Spelling mistakes happen, especially when one is using a phone.

Op, no offence but who pissed you off? It takes a bit of getting used to, this here forum, but I have yet to see someone get a rollicking who didn't open themselves up to it. MNHQ are pretty up on threads which cross a line anyway.

LadyBeagle Mon 26-Nov-12 19:58:07

I agree with you Tweasels about that thread, I thought it was quite mean spirited.
It was mocking of how they feel MN is perceived and definitely reverse snobbery.
And was only about a tiny, tiny minority on here, there are twats of all classes.
And I speak as someone that is claiming benefits and has an HA house.

starsandunicorns Mon 26-Nov-12 19:58:43

I have been pulled up a few times reguarding my spelling and grammer being dislexic its really nerve racking to post anything incase things are pulled up as you say Tweasles. I got at school at uni and in some work placements yes I have degree but the feeling that you judged because of spelling is hard fir someone like me if you get it all the time in Real life. It may be well meaning but its soul destorying really or do i have to say in every post that im dislexic

Arisbottle Mon 26-Nov-12 20:01:54

I posted on the other thread, I simply said that I did not fit in.

Tweasels exactly how are we different and what would you not want to see MN become.

I've never had anyone ask me my class or background. I've said I'm from Chatham, home of the chav, and no one told me to fuck off to netms instead.
I joined up here as you can swear like a sailor and no one tells you off. There are no smiley ticker tape things. And loads of bloggers are members of the other forum and most of them drive me mad at Twitter for my sarky natured, sweary, and ex-of-chavtown background.
If you feel like you don't fit in, that says more about your own self esteem than anything else. And no one makes you stay either.

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 20:06:46

Theres no denying that MN is very MC.

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 20:08:34

See, all this slagging off of Netmums makes MN sound a bit up its self.

MrsDeVere Mon 26-Nov-12 20:13:29

MN is very MC but I am getting a bit bored of people using it's main demographic to dismiss opinions posted by members.

It seems to be happening rather a lot lately. 'You sitting there sipping your chi lattes in Islington while I live in the real world' bollocks hmm

I hold my hand up as a NM slagger offer. Nothing to do with it being common. I just think its a fucking horrible place. It has its good points and I have met some long term friends on there but its bad points faaar outweigh its good in my opinion.

LadyBeagle Mon 26-Nov-12 20:14:27

I think netmums is more for the younger demographic. Mn suits me better as there's more people closer to my own age.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 26-Nov-12 20:16:36

I agree MrsDV.

The caricature is just that.

Trust me, they slag MN off too.

I'm not MC, I'm unmarried, I don't own my own home, have a long term sick child, partner is self employed, neither of us went to uni, don't shop at Waitrose or Boden, and neither of my kids is named in a pretentious way.

I still do fine here. Never been shunned and don't expect to be. If its not for you, that's fine. We're a nice bunch really

CoteDAzur Mon 26-Nov-12 20:17:56

I think: Nothing wrong with MC. Lots wrong with txtspk. >> I'll be staying at MN.

If you think: Lots wrong with MC. Nothing wrong with txtspk >> Don't let us hold you back from NM & BC.

Simple, really. There are places where txtspk is tolerated or even appreciated. If it's so important to you, then go to those places rather than expecting MN to change its ways.

MrsDeVere Mon 26-Nov-12 20:22:49

Is that what people are saying cote?

I thought this was more about people being pulled up on spelling or lack of education.

That happens on NMs quite a lot. The difference is, the people doing the pulling are less likely to spellcheck before they hit 'send'.

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 20:23:27

So in conclusion I should fuck off to Netmums because I don't give a toss if someone uses textspeak?

Tweasels Mon 26-Nov-12 20:26:23

Arisbottle - What I think is different about MN is that there is less of the fluffy, cutie stuff and I think MNHQ do a fine job without the need for over zealous mods. That is what I prefer and that is why I use this site and not others.

It's just preference. It's not being snobby, I couldn't give a monkey's dick what background someone is from, whether you feel you are a certain class, what kind of fucking ham you eat and where you buy your clothes.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 26-Nov-12 20:27:14

... or, if you don't give a toss someone uses textspeak but you also respect someone's right to not like/use textspeak, you can stay

Or something

CoteDAzur Mon 26-Nov-12 20:28:56

You don't give a toss is not the same thing as you actually want MN to be welcoming to txtspkrs, I assume.

I am reasonably tolerant of religious people (i.e. "don't give a toss") but I wouldn't be the member of a forum for fundamentalist Muslims. No, it's not the same thing, obviously, but I hope you see what I mean.

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 20:31:43

I want MN to welcome everyone TBH.

Not just the posters that fit the MN demographic.

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 20:32:17

Perceived demographic*

CoteDAzur Mon 26-Nov-12 20:32:38

MrsDeVere - Yes, that's what the disagreement boils down to. Nobody here is arguing with the OP on grammar policing etc. We are putting our foot down on the txtspk issue, though.

CoteDAzur Mon 26-Nov-12 20:33:24

"Txtspkr" is not a demographic.

They can actually write in English, you know.

Tweasels Mon 26-Nov-12 20:34:32

You're right usual, MN should welcome everyone but what would be wrong with saying, hello new person you are absolutely welcome here but while you stay would you mind not using text speak as some users don't understand it.

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 20:36:53

Have you ever seen anyone say that though?

It's all snooty put downs and piss taking if anyone uses text speak on here.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Mon 26-Nov-12 20:39:54

I hate text speak. Hate it. I don't even use it when I am texting.

BUT if someone is new here and uses text speak I think a friendly nudge is all that's needed. Not ripping to bits.

They aren't to know are they?

rogersmellyonthetelly Mon 26-Nov-12 20:45:31

I don't understand text speak, it makes my eyes bleed and my brain hurt when I try to work out what the chuff it means. I am an old gimmer I grant you, but presumably people who use it can also speak and write English? In which case, writing in a foreign language on an English speaking forum is surely a bit rude, and not particularly inclusive of all us old pedantic grouchy buggers who don't have a bloody clue what you are on about.
Don't really give much of a shite about grammar/spelling as long as it resembles English and I can understand vaguely the gist of it. And since my grammar is shite (far too long since I left school) and autocorrect on my phone has a mind of its own, I can hardly comment.
I think mumsnet is more of a statement of who you are as a person rather than anything to do with class. It's about honest opinions, not sugar coating stuff and saying it like it really is. I can't do with wafty woo stuff, hugs and sparkles, it's all a bit superficial and false for me. I like a bag of shite to be called a bag of shite.

tittytittyhanghang Mon 26-Nov-12 20:47:32

i dont think i have ever read an op on mn where the whole op was in text speak, like the examples up thread. Maybe one or two words that have slipped through. Im guilty of this myself, where ive written 'cos' instead of 'because', its not done to piss anyone off, just a typing slip, and I dont think the odd text speak makes an op unreadable. Its the superior attitude towards anyone that writes less than perfect. Usual has hit the nail on the head, its all the snooty put downs and piss taking.

It was one thread that rankled me - this one. I don't even think the op (which i believed to genuine as mn does i assume since it has not been pulled) used text speak as such.

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 20:50:53

I was a bit arsey on that thread grin

Not because of the posting style though, more because I thought we were being trolled.

blush

NotWankinginaWinterWonderland Mon 26-Nov-12 20:51:16

Wots been aayd nooo?

A fink mumsnet shud huv a place fur commun people nwi cooncil hooses

Anuther place fur folk wi mortgiges up tae thur eye baws

a place fur fok who dinnae call their bogs toilets n a place fur everycunt else. or summit

imo

MrsDeVere Mon 26-Nov-12 20:51:48

People do not use txt speak on mn.
I dont get what all the fuck off to nm is about.

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 20:53:19

I did go all PO on it's arse later on in the thread though. <redeems self>

NotWankinginaWinterWonderland Mon 26-Nov-12 20:53:23

oooo fuck a thot id killed anothur fred there..<disappointing>

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 20:54:45

The OP on that thread wasn't even using textspeak though.

NotWankinginaWinterWonderland Mon 26-Nov-12 20:54:54

Sorry Wannabe I forgot blush Just ignore my posts there are nonsense they make no sense to me even after I write/type them...

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Mon 26-Nov-12 20:55:47

HOW did I miss that hair dye thread! Fucking fabulous!

zeeboo Mon 26-Nov-12 20:57:45

They have baby centre and NMs though surely?

usualsuspect3 Mon 26-Nov-12 20:59:21

Who are 'they' ?

tittytittyhanghang Mon 26-Nov-12 20:59:57

No, she wasn't. Granted not very good english but eligible enough for all the piss taking after, with plenty of assumptions about the type of person she was, and where she did and didn't belong.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Mon 26-Nov-12 21:03:22

I've seen the odd text speaker on here. For sure. Memorable.

Latara Mon 26-Nov-12 21:10:57

YANBU smile

I didn't personally direct anyone to fuck off elsewhere, I just offered the advice that, should you not enjoy being here, for whatever reason, then no one makes you stay. I say the same to people who have openly or anonymously slag off my blog- no one makes you read it.

scottishmummy Mon 26-Nov-12 22:39:00

you shouldnt blog if you cannot tolerate anything other than praise
if you blog expect range of comments,some you likey,some not.
if youre not robust enough to tolerate it dont blog.by blogging you invite opinion

fridgepants Mon 26-Nov-12 22:56:43

I keep misreading 'netmums' as 'nethummus'

LadyBeagle Mon 26-Nov-12 22:59:04

How terribly mc of you fridgepants grin.

fridgepants Mon 26-Nov-12 23:11:21

LadyBeagle, I am so working class that I had never tried it until I went 'up to university'. Nor pesto. When I came back at the end of my first term, my mum informed me that I had 'foreign breath'.

FellatioNelson Tue 27-Nov-12 03:42:18

I think we are allowing this textspeak thing to cloud the real issue though. That Tyson poster only slipped into textspeak occasionally, but she just demonstrated through her posts (in terms of subject, writing style and opinions) that she was poorly educated, a bit dim, probably young, probably poor, definitely common.

That's the real reason she got a kicking. Anyone who thinks it was all about the gobbledegook textspeak is being less than honest with themselves. Anyone remember Cod's atrocious typing style? It never did her any harm, did it? We managed to decipher it well enough because we wanted to.

Do I want to spend hours talking to people like Tyson's mum on here? No, not really. They don't float my boat. I hope they will get bored and go away. It doesn't mean I enjoy seeing them humiliated though, not unless they have said/done something sufficiently wicked that means they deserve to be put in the stocks.

Still can't decide whether she was for real or not, but on balance I think she was.

I thought the Tyson thing was a fake straight away. Who actually talks like that in rl? That's why I thought they got the response they did as people thought "here we go, another troll'.
SM, I'm happy to accept a range of comments on my blog thanks. However I draw the line at trolling and downright abuse. No Blogger or forum member should expect to pit up with that level.

I hadn't noticed any criticism or moaning about text speak or bad grammar confused

But personally, I can't bloody stand to read the text speak that goes on here and yes, I do judge people who do it. It's one reason I quit Facebook.

MrsHoarder Tue 27-Nov-12 07:32:26

FOFF how many of the posters here even saw that thread? I didn't and was discussing the general case.

tittytittyhanghang Tue 27-Nov-12 07:39:09

*I think we are allowing this textspeak thing to cloud the real issue though. That Tyson poster only slipped into textspeak occasionally, but she just demonstrated through her posts (in terms of subject, writing style and opinions) that she was poorly educated, a bit dim, probably young, probably poor, definitely common.

That's the real reason she got a kicking. Anyone who thinks it was all about the gobbledegook textspeak is being less than honest with themselves.*

This is what im driving at and I agree with this. MN is big enough imo that the Tyson poster should be able to post and not get a kicking for the reasons above. Surely if you don't want to engage or think Troll, you just don't respond or report to MN?

differentnameforthis Tue 27-Nov-12 07:41:31

Hun, x's lol, grammar & spelling errors don't bother me. But everyone knows how to write English & they should have the respect for other posters to make their posts as easy to read as possible, especially if they are seeking help.

EIizaDay Tue 27-Nov-12 07:48:03

I don't know what the OP's post is actually about because my eyes glazed over at all the swearing on it. I judged that it wasn't actually worth thinking about and I allowed myself to "feel superior" (OP's words) because I wouldn't use trashy & foul language LIKE SHE DONE.

BIWI Tue 27-Nov-12 08:13:49

Ha ha ha ha

BIWI Tue 27-Nov-12 08:14:17

Sorry.

Should have LOLed at that I suppose

grin Eliza nicely done.

hoarders It's called responding to others who had mentioned the Tyson troll thread so fuck off

tittytittyhanghang Tue 27-Nov-12 12:11:50

Good for your Eliza, hope it makes your day better smile

Cahoootz Tue 27-Nov-12 12:21:26

I think it all about intent. If someone points out another posters crap spelling/grammar/text speak or whatever in a nice helpful way then that is OK but if it is done to be rude, patronising or mean way then that is not ok.

There was a nice, helpful thread recently on how to spell definitely . It was jokey and good humoured and I thought it was perfectly ok. (with the added benefit that I can now spell definitely grin )

Arisbottle Tue 27-Nov-12 18:45:06

fellowship feeling like you don't fit in has nothing to do with self Esteem, not in my case anyway. I am just aware that I am not like the vocal majority here. I don't particularly want to be like them either, I am quite happy to be as I am.

However that does not mean that everyone is like we with balls of steel and the hide of a rhino. Therefore it is awful whe others are made to feel stupid or inferior .

Shakey1500 Tue 27-Nov-12 20:22:21

MardyBra Thank you smile

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