A school run mum blocked the driveway then refused to move when asked to

(404 Posts)
DillyDallyDayDream Sun 25-Nov-12 16:35:19

I work a few doors down from a school/preschool as a nanny. The house has a doubled dropped kerb and double driveway.
I'd dropped my charge off at school and was getting the younger ones into the car when one of the preschool mums parked her huge 4x4 across the dropped kerb of the house I work in.
I asked her politely to move her car as I was going out and told her she can't legally block the driveway. She got quite arsey saying that she was late and there was no where else to park.
Was I being unreasonable to ask her to move??
Was I being unreasonable to report her to the local pcso after school whilst they were monitoring the parking?

jazzcat28 Sun 25-Nov-12 16:36:04

No

funkybuddah Sun 25-Nov-12 16:37:35

YANBU school run parents ned to remember they dont actually have any priority, if you want a parking space leave earlier or walk from a further space (I now await a million anecdotes as to why people have to park like idiots)

Redstockingswillstopsanta Sun 25-Nov-12 16:37:38

YANBU,can't stand the parking next to school,most people could walk but can't be bothered.

hjtunny Sun 25-Nov-12 16:37:48

YANBU it is illegal to block a driveway if there is a car parked on it as far as I'm aware. I would've done the same.

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 16:37:54

Oh crap, you said 4x4 <puts on tin hat>

UsedToBeAContender Sun 25-Nov-12 16:38:16

No you aren't being unreasonable but I don't see what the fact that she has a 4x4 has to do with anything other than trying to sterotype her.

LtEveDallas Sun 25-Nov-12 16:39:13

No and no. It's not your problem she was late, and it's not your problem that there wasn't any parking available.

Hopefully the PSCO has sorted.

RedHelenB Sun 25-Nov-12 16:39:18

If it had a double dropped kerb surely there was room to get out??

pepperrabbit Sun 25-Nov-12 16:39:31

Could you have got past if it was an itsy bitsy mini?

DillyDallyDayDream Sun 25-Nov-12 16:39:57

Stated she had a 4x4 to show the size of her car.

trixie123 Sun 25-Nov-12 16:41:07

presumably the 4x4 reference was to explain why it blocked the double dropped kerb?

DillyDallyDayDream Sun 25-Nov-12 16:41:33

I was parked on the side of the drive she had blocked, in order to get off using the other half I'd have to have driven on the grassy bit and then reversed out when I was unable to see traffic

UsedToBeAContender Sun 25-Nov-12 16:41:44

You could have just said her huge car.

MrsSpencerReid Sun 25-Nov-12 16:41:47

People regularly park in front of my parents garage, the same car kept doing it so when they needed the blocked in car out of the garage they rang the police who towed it!! Maybe next time she refuses tell her you'll get it moved for her as she doesn't have time herself wink

Strawhatpirate Sun 25-Nov-12 16:42:56

YABVVVNU!

marjproops Sun 25-Nov-12 16:43:51

OP in your defence you said it was a 4x4 because it WAS a 4x4, not a ford whatever or vauxhall whatever, and I get exactly the same prob, Ive tried being polite but firm, and also Ive threatened to call police AND report her to the school at the end of the road and lo and behold, 5 mins later there was a huge scratch down the side of my car in my driveway, so not only parking in front of a drive with a huge ''DO NOT PARRK DRIVEWAY IN CONSTANT USE- AND- DISABLED sign there too, but actually entering my front garden (cant prove it was her but seems very co-incidental on same day 5 mins after i went back in). neighbours do the same with their worktruck and im sick of reporting them and nothing being done.

BluelightsAndSirens Sun 25-Nov-12 16:44:01

No ywnu I hate our school run with a passion, some parents show such a selfish and inconsiderate nature on the school run.

Parking outside the school on the zig zags and driving to fast angry

I even had one mum complaining that the house 2 doors down from the school were having their driveway redone and the work vans were taking up to much space on the road outside the occupants house.

mrskeithrichards Sun 25-Nov-12 16:46:44

As long as it's a proper drive yanbu.

Cheeky mare!

Wishfulmakeupping Sun 25-Nov-12 16:57:55

Yadnbu

GhostShip Sun 25-Nov-12 17:02:32

You could have just said her huge car

Stop being a touchy arse. We're all adults, lets call a spade a spade.

GroupieGirl Sun 25-Nov-12 17:09:21

Don't you mean a non-specific digging device?

SofaKing Sun 25-Nov-12 17:10:23

This drives me mad, I live in the same street as a school and it's as if I have no right to use the road at all.

I was crossing the road outside my house with my 3 dc and a dad parked right in front of us as we stood at the kerb. We had to stand back to make way for his car, and he just got out and started unloading his child while we shuffled along the pavement to walk round his car and cross over. I didn't say anything because I was gobsmacked at how rude he'd been, but if he does it again I will.

I would agree notifying police is a good idea, especially if they are monitoring parking they are obviously interested in clamping down on illegal parking. Hope they catch her and have a word with her, there are never any agencies monitoring parking next to my school, and the teachers have to patrol the internal road in school to stop parents parking in the teachers' car park!

GhostShip Sun 25-Nov-12 17:10:45

Groupie grin

blackeyedsusan Sun 25-Nov-12 17:21:58

I watch some people drive past perfectly acceptable car parking spaces oh about 20 feet further away from school and park between 2 dropped kerbs, one kerb stone in length...

oh and yabu to not have reported her there and then.

VivaLeBeaver Sun 25-Nov-12 17:26:41

If she does it again you need to get a neighbour or 2 on side. One parked in front, one behind. Right up to both bumpers. Then refuse to move.

I've done this with a drive blocker and it worked a treat. We went inside and had coffee while waving out the window at the hysterical, sobbing woman outside.

sue52 Sun 25-Nov-12 17:28:41

Some normally good,well mannered drivers turn into utter knobs on the school run. They think having a child in a school uniform entitles them to behave in a throughly selfish manner.

MadamFolly Sun 25-Nov-12 17:34:30

Good one Viva did you make her late for a meeting or something?

lovebunny Sun 25-Nov-12 17:34:51

notifying the police is fine.

it would be absolutely wrong to find out where she lives and anonymously arrange for the delivery of a ton of young manure to the end of her drive. but it would be satisfying.

Rindercella Sun 25-Nov-12 17:35:01

Yanbu.

Any mention of 4x4s is likely to be divisive. Being a 4x4 and a Ford or Vauxhall are not mutually exclusive - she could have quite likely been driving a Ford 4x4. Or she could have been driving a SUV that didn't have 4x4 capabilities.

Stating that a vehicle is a 4x4 seems shorthand that it's a vehicle driven by a wanker. This is not always the case smile

VivaLeBeaver Sun 25-Nov-12 17:35:56

Don't you know, that's exactly what she said. She said she called the police as well but they never came.

I let her out after half an hour. She's not been back.

Rindercella Sun 25-Nov-12 17:36:11

I do like Viva's suggestion very much (regardless of the type of car wrongly parked) grin

CSIJanner Sun 25-Nov-12 17:38:12

If she does it again, tell her you'll take her number plate and won't ask a third time, you'll just get her towed.

VivaLeBeaver Sun 25-Nov-12 17:38:17

There's nothing that winds me up more than a drive blocker.

I'm not even near a school. Its people going to the corner shop and post office and been too bloody lazy to park slightly further away. There is a side street 2 houses from me with loads of parking up it.

But no, they'd rather block my drive.

Yanbu.

We live next to a primary school. Parental driving behaviour is frequently shocking.

Just as sue52 said.

maddening Sun 25-Nov-12 17:47:45

luckily in this case this 4x4 was being driven by a wanker grin

HSMM Sun 25-Nov-12 17:48:12

Take a photo (incl number plate) to go with your report next time. (NB: I drive a 4x4 and don't mind you mentioning it.)

ghoulelocks Sun 25-Nov-12 17:51:34

Come and seethe with me, I have the opposite problem. My neighbour parks on my drive (taxi) after school run to off load kids. Now it's dark the headlights light up the whole place through the glass door.

We live in a cul de sac with a school opposite the entrance to it. Sometimes they park right across the road end so we can't get in or out. I was late for work one morning because no-one could get out for almost 10 mins. If I didn't think it would write off my own car I'd feel like driving into them some mornings. We've tried the Police, the School, the council, and it makes very little difference. The police don't get there in time, and I think they are probably the only solution.The selfishness is just staggering.

CSIJanner Sun 25-Nov-12 17:52:07

Oh, and report the blocking to the local PCSO and the school. Head teachers love to hear that kind of thing.

BegoniaBampot Sun 25-Nov-12 17:53:08

"I've done this with a drive blocker and it worked a treat. We went inside and had coffee while waving out the window at the hysterical, sobbing woman outside." - this made me snort and is the best way to deal with these asses.

I get unreasonably incensed at this, even when it's not my drive.

pointythings Sun 25-Nov-12 17:53:45

We get them parking across the drive of the place where I work. An NHS site, no less. Not all 4x4s but all expensive new cars - the nearby school is an expensive private. Obviously us plebs don't need to get to work do we?

No tolerance for this kind of behaviour at all.

mommabee Sun 25-Nov-12 18:02:57

YANBU I'd have done the same, it's not your problem she's late she shouldn't block you in!

BegoniaBampot Sun 25-Nov-12 18:04:13

Best I saw was someone parking across a zebra crossing at a primary school. One little boy was trying to cross and was having to peep out behind the car before trying to cross. When I challenged the driver, she just looked at me vacantly - totally didn't get it.

3littlefrogs Sun 25-Nov-12 18:12:41

A friend of mine had to call an ambulance because she couldn't get out of her drive to take her dd to hospital. (Someone had parked across the drive). Her dd was having a bad asthma attack. The ambulance could hardly get down the street because of all the horrendous parking. The child spent a couple of days on a ventilator in ITU. Was alright in the end thankfully.

Some people are so selfish and ignorant.

Durab Sun 25-Nov-12 18:35:09

I love the way people are so touchy about the 4x4 thing. I live opposite a school and when the drive is blocked it is always a 4x4 or some other high status car. I'm sure there are owners of such vehicles who always park considerately, but when the drive is blocked, it is always one of them.

MsPickle Sun 25-Nov-12 18:48:50

You are most definitely not being unreasonable. My parents house is at the top of a cul de sac by a primary school and it's a nightmare every day to get on off the drive etc and has been a problem for 20 years. Each new generation has bigger cars and it gets worse. Not least as most have a less than 10 minute walk as their alternative and either off street parking or space to park by their own houses. It's bloody infuriating. At the moment I occasionally drive my ds to his cm who's a 15-20 minute walk away but that's because I'm almost 38 weeks pregnant and it's mostly uphill. She's near a school and I'm very conscious that I could be causing problems for residents so am paranoid about checking that I'm somewhere that's not blocking a drive/someone's access.

thebody Sun 25-Nov-12 18:52:06

Errrr I have a huge 4 by 4 and would never do this.

Call the police non emergency line and give her number plate.

You are being unreasonable mentioning the make of car.. Irrelevant.

DillyDallyDayDream Sun 25-Nov-12 18:55:51

Police have had numerous dealings with her over this term but nothing they can do as they never see her do it.

I don't see how me mentioning the type of car makes it unreasonable? Stated the type to give an idea on size. And also when the drive is blocked its either a 4x4 or some expensive brand of car

wigglesrock Sun 25-Nov-12 18:56:10

If you are completely blocked in ie can't get out of your drive - ring or call into your local station ask them to send an officer to ticket the cars especially if it happens on the same days/times a week. Its a traffic offence and certainly where I live its one of the few traffic offences that the police can still ticket for, the responsibility hasn't been passed on to traffic wardens.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 25-Nov-12 18:58:17

Oh crap you said 4x4 should really hide the thread. wink

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 19:02:40

Don't think you are unreasonable to mention the car was a 4x4 because "not being able to park it anywhere" is often because of having a ridiculous and unnecessarily huge car that takes up a lot of room.

That is without even mentioning that a lot of 4x4s are not even four wheel drive now and they are inappropriate and dangerous to take on the school run due to the poor visibility offered to the driver of child pedestrians, the poor visibility pedestrians have around them when crossing (especially children) the road and the double parking/rushing/carelessness which often happens at school drop offs which exacerbates both the above problems AND the lack of spaces that will fit a pointlessly huge car. I think unless you live in an extremely rural place you have to be inherently inconsiderate of others to own a 4x4.

If this woman was late then that's her problem, she needs to park safely, legally and possibly further away because being late is less bad than blocking someone's driveway. Or alternatively she could get up in time to get her children to school.

Yanbu - either to report her or to mention the type of car. Of course some 4x4 drivers are lovely. And some aren't. Lovely or not though a 4x4 is a BIG car to have in your way.

At our school there are some parents who think it's fine to stop in the zug zags. In fact I think they believe it denotes a special 'entitled wankers may pause here' zone.

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 19:04:12

Next time take photographs and complain to the police.

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 19:06:52

The one at our school which pisses me off the most is a dickhead who brings his two children to school in his two seater Ferrari with personalised number plates every day. Surely has to be a serious question over his parenting if he can afford any car but chooses one that puts his children at risk every morning on the school run. angry

BikeRunSki Sun 25-Nov-12 19:09:15

My street requested resident's parking because of school run mums (and my next door neighbour is a child minder which compounds the problem ). It hasn't made any difference, I am still regularly blocked in and late getting DS to nursery and me to work, but I do get to feel and evil joy when I see a traffic warden pottering down the road (not that I will have rung up the parking office for a moan or anything ).

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 19:15:15

No, you're not being at all unreasonable. I never realised how much hatred there is for 4x4 drivers before MN! Not you OP, you understand! Some of them are pretty sizeable, especially when parked in the bloody way!

Rindercella Sun 25-Nov-12 19:16:38

grin Everlong.

YANBU. If she does it again, take a photo and e-mail it to your psco.

digerd Sun 25-Nov-12 19:20:01

In our area you can't get a taxi until after 9am due to their school runs during term time. Obviously they are not nursery children, but our local nursery at bottom of our road has mums walking to it in all weathers.

The police came twice to a neighbour of ours when their neighbour's daughter blocked their driveway and refused to budge.

StrawberriesTasteLikeLipsDo Sun 25-Nov-12 19:29:34

PIL live opposite a junior school, have had their drive blocked numerous times. MIL actually been threatened when she asked someone to move! angrysad FIL got so sick of this that for a time he kept a rather large mallet in the porch. People are inconsiderate and entitled!

In contrast there is a school at the end of our road, it fronts the main road access is generally gained from the end of our road as the parents can park. There are no drives on our road but a few garages. Garages Always blocked at pick up times. The parents park like knobs, on double yellows etc, I actually had to insist a man move his car from my severly disabled neighbours space after he told her to "either wait or fuck off!" angry again just pathetic and entitled.

YANBU OP!

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 19:29:58

People's attitudes to the school run and cars are ridiculous. When we have had bike it days or walk to school incentives people drive to school with bikes in the boot (saw a couple parked on the zigzags unloading bikes) and park round the corner and walk round to get the free stuff without doing the work. When I raised school parking at the PTA there was a chorus of "we always try to walk to school... Unless it is raining" from parents I see in there cars on every bright sunny day. There is one man who drives his child despite living just beyond the parking crush on the same street as the school. I ride a cargo bike two miles+ to school every day, rain, 60mph wind, hail, whatever, now the big kids also ride their bikes everyday too so I have absolutely no patience with this kind of inconsiderate crap especially when for a lot of them walking but definitely bikes would get them home quicker and more cheaply (they live nearer than me to school and I pass their homes before they get home having dealt with parking chaos and strapping toddlers into car seats).

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 25-Nov-12 19:30:51

<drags my lovely rinders off the thread to the pub>

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 19:34:31

i would have got in my car and kept my hand on the horn until she moved. actually i would have gone and keyed her car

AGreenie Sun 25-Nov-12 19:38:15

I often sit in my car with my hand on the horn beeping so that the inconsiderate person who has parked over my drive can realise their mistake and move their car - very rarely get an apology, generally they finish their shopping first.... Some people are just so self absorbed that they don't think about the impact of their actions in other people!

amck5700 Sun 25-Nov-12 19:39:44

I live in a cul-de-sac and the school is accessible by a path from the street. I don't generally have an issue with people using the street as a dropping off/picking up point - most people park responsibly........however, to get into the street there is a narrowed entrance (traffic calming) that leaves room for only one car. I finish work in order to be home for school coming out time. As my son is now in the last year of primary, i don't need to be in the playground or even be home on the dot of school finishing, so often I am coming into the street as all the pick up people are leaving. It's the fact that no-one wants to let me into my own street and gives me dirty looks for even attempting to that annoys the shit out of me. Obviously their need to get wherever they are going takes precedence over my need to get home for my own child.

ouryve Sun 25-Nov-12 19:44:31

YANBU.

ShellyBoobs Sun 25-Nov-12 19:47:19

This '4x4' hysteria is hilarious, to be honest.

My best friend has a Toyota RAV4 4x4. It's smaller than a fucking MINI.

grin

There are loads of 4x4s which are no longer than a normal hatchback.

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 19:52:59

The rav4 is wider and higher than a mini and around the same length. It is a crossover anyway isn't it?

SofiaAmes Sun 25-Nov-12 20:00:32

I don't understand why the parents at all these schools don't organize a "kiss and drop" for dropping off the children so that no one has to park. All the local elementary schools here in Los Angeles have these. Basically volunteer parents (and sometimes some school staff assist) stand at a designated location in front of the school gate. (You will need a few cones to mark out where the cars line up). The cars pull up and parents open the doors and help the kids (and all their junk) out of the car and then the child walks straight into the school and the parents drive off. There are usually 3 or 4 parents there, so 3 or 4 cars can be stopped/emptied at a time. It's convenient for the parents. Great for the school because kids arrive on time (no parents late because they can't find parking) and there are no complaints about parking in front of neighbors.
When I lived in London, the private school (Japanese School) across the street had this arrangement. We lived directly across the street from the school and almost never had a problem with people parking in front of our drive.

amck5700 Sun 25-Nov-12 20:03:36

We have a drop off zone like that for High school Sofia - works great in the mornings but is useless at going home time as people have to wait for their kids to come out and that's a bit less predictable than at primary so they need to park usually.

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 20:04:29

Sofia - because in our case; a. there isn't room on our street for this b. to do it with every driver would take too much time and everyone turns up and leaves within about 10 mins and c. The school don't let you drop children into school before the bell rings at 8.55. They ask that you arrive at 8.45 and wait with the children in the playground until the bell goes when they line up and go in together.

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 20:05:15

I actually don't see why most people drive their high school kids to school at all.

RedToothbrush Sun 25-Nov-12 20:05:26

Get your camera out. Take photos when she is doing it. Tell her you are informing the police because she rude and refuses to move. See how quick she moves then.

Failing that, print of the picture and supply it to the school. make sure you get pictures of her kid and her face. If that fails get A3 print out and post it on a lamp post. Name and shame the ignorant bitch

(spot the person fed up of inexcusable fuckwitted parking at local high school)

simplesusan Sun 25-Nov-12 20:07:29

Yanbu at all.

DesperatelySeekingSedatives Sun 25-Nov-12 20:08:33

YANBU

There are so many selfish gobshites who park badly round my DDs school I'd be going loony if I lived round there! There is really no excuse at all. A local pub has even given parents permission to park in there carpark totally free of charge, which is about 3 minutes walk from the school. It was meant to ease congestion. Yet my DP (I dont drive) and a very small handful of other parents are the only ones that do that. Everyone else goes right down to the school and battles it out like crazy people for the limited legal parking near the school. Nothing is off limits at all angry

WholeLottaRosie Sun 25-Nov-12 20:13:22

That is without even mentioning that a lot of 4x4s are not even four wheel drive now

Eh? confused

Dromedary Sun 25-Nov-12 20:16:57

She was certainly living up to the 4X4 owner stereotype. They so often do.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 25-Nov-12 20:21:39

Do you lot never tire of giving the 4x4 digs?

Thought not.

ShellyBoobs Sun 25-Nov-12 20:22:45

The rav4 is wider and higher than a mini and around the same length

The Rav is narrower.

And no, it's not a crossover.

RedToothbrush Sun 25-Nov-12 20:26:20

Parking across the driveway would be impressive. We have fuckwits park across the junction of an estate of 200 houses round here.

If it carries on, there will be WAR.

Plomino Sun 25-Nov-12 20:30:17

Our school has a side entrance as well as a main entrance , which is in a cul de sac . It's anarchy at picking up and dropping off time. People across drives , on pavements , all to save themselves another 100 yards , and it IS another 100 yards , to drive to the next side street , park perfectly correctly , not block anyone in , and saunter to the school . There are 5 prime suspects who abandon their vehicles as close as they can to the entrance daily , without actually parking in the playground . They drive respectively :

A Peugot 206 .
A Ford Fuckus .
A rover 800
A Mini.
An Audi TT .

You know who you are ! And so does the local SNT now , because I've rung them myself .

Me, I drive my hugely ostentatious Discovery to the side road , decant the 5 kids to go to their various schools , and saunter back . Me and my mate , with a just as big Chrysler voyager with her 5 kids , are the only two cars in the road . Ridiculous .

DillyDallyDayDream Sun 25-Nov-12 20:32:17

Going to see what tomorrow is like then there may be war!!

amck5700 Sun 25-Nov-12 20:35:31

Offred - I don't know why most people drive their kids to High school - I drive my kid to High school as bullying in primary meant that he couldn't go to his local one through fear and therefore he now goes to a school 10 miles away with no public transport and no safe way to get there by bike.

I am sure that scenario doesn't apply to everyone but i am sure that there are people with valid reasons to drive. Equally there will be some people with kids in primary who have valid reasons.

None of that excuses people being ignorant and rude and causing problems for the locals - and I have always lived near schools

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 20:42:09

Yeah, sure there are valid reasons but the high school on the way to my primary school has a massive full car park and the whole street is double parked every morning.

Kafri Sun 25-Nov-12 20:49:18

i have this problem. we live on an estate which has a school just down the road and regularly have parents come to drop off/pick up their dcd and block my driveway, or park right on the junction to the estate so it makes it dangerous to get in or out of the estate especially with all the kids about.

i went out to work one day (at half 8) and a mum had parked across my drive so I said politely that I had to get out my drive to get to work - she just said she was late for work herself and had to get dc to school and she would 'only be 15 mins'. Errr, ok love - i'll be late for work for you!!

amck5700 Sun 25-Nov-12 20:51:49

That does sound a bit excessive. I would say that most kids that go to my son's school walk or get the school bus (it doesn't go anywhere near us unfortunately) The drop off zone gets full but there is room in the staff car park for everyone else - some people seem to feel that they don't need to actually park and can just stop in the car park access roads which is a pita when you can't get out because of them - my fear is that they will end up causing an accident and then the school will not allow parents to use the car park anymore - it's always some selfish people that spoil it for everyone else.

Iggly Sun 25-Nov-12 20:52:52

YANBU

Please can someone explain why you need a massive 4x4 car in somewhere like London...?

cinnamonnut Sun 25-Nov-12 20:55:11

Careful Iggly, you will get someone on here in a minute saying that once, 7 years ago, they used a 4x4 in London to rescue someone from the snow, or something like that grin

Devora Sun 25-Nov-12 20:55:55

I'm in the luxurious position of having a driveway but no car, so this isn't an irritant for me personally. But on the days when I do school pick-up, I walk past the school half an hour before the kids come out. I'm always astonished at how many cars are already parked all down the road, often with babies strapped in, bored, in the back. This is an over-subscribed school which only takes in children living within 0.2 miles. I can understand that a few parents may have moved further away since their children started there, and that others may be on their way somewhere straight after. But this is a long road and it is chock a block with parents sitting waiting for half an hour. Very strange.

hippocrocapig Sun 25-Nov-12 20:56:12

Long time lurker, 1st time poster smile, compelled to post!

Last house we lived in had a drive through (under) arch, which was shared by the 2 adjoining terraces as well as ours and a school at the end of the road, not 1 minute walk away.

On more than one occasion returned from school run (3 miles away) to find someone actually parked under the arch.

The irony (?) is, I had to drive my kids 3 miles to school, because they couldn't get into the one up the road!!!!!

YANBU

Iggly Sun 25-Nov-12 20:57:05

PMSL cinnamonnut grin

They are status cars, end of.

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 20:59:30

Maybe that's the problem, we don't have school buses here.

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 21:04:30

Iggly i have a 4X4 in London because I want to. it is a big status car! I have lots of money, so I buy a lovely beautiful 4X4! and what?... shock

Iggly Sun 25-Nov-12 21:06:21

Good for you Cows

But they're a PITA when driven by people who cannot park properly or even drive properly as they cannot see around them.

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 21:07:25

Well, that took longer that expected!

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 21:08:07

See previous comments about how it is inherently selfish and inconsiderate and dangerous for vulnerable road users especially around school two... So you are effectively saying you having an unnecessarily big car to show off you have money is more important than the safety or consideration of other people.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 25-Nov-12 21:10:00

<waves to jack>

Do you like how I've been nice and quiet? smile

amck5700 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:10:05

Offred - it is a public bus - well two actually but at school start and kicking out time they come up to the school as part of their routes. Seems to work well to get the kids who live farther away from the school (but in the catchment) to and from school though the fare is 2 pound each way or 40 pound for a pass per half term.

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 21:13:58

Iggly , little cars are also a pita when driven by people who cant drive confused maybe instead of getting all arsey about 4X4s you should get all arsey about people who cant drive?!

yes indeed offred, i am.

Rindercella Sun 25-Nov-12 21:15:11

wine wine Everlong!

Iggly Sun 25-Nov-12 21:15:52

Oh I am. But someone in a small car is just a shitty driver. Someone in a 4x4 is a shit driver who cannot see very well. And when they go and park across two bays.... Muppets.

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 21:16:21

I'm impressed Everlong. I'm sitting on my hands and I don't give a shit about what car people drive (unless they can't park it wink )

<waits for the inevitable twattery>

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 21:19:28

oh, we can see perfectly unless you are in a particularly tiny shitty car

i would imagine those that do park across 2 bays, do so that no little shitty parks near them. they do cost quite a lot, so wouldn't want any shit little car banging their doors against the lovely expensive 4X4!

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 21:19:44

I don't think you can complain about people complaining about 4x4s then two!

4x4s in urban areas are completely unnecessary and dangerous. I pity anyone who has those priorities in life.

onyx72 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:22:34

Why do parents drive their children to school? Probably for the same reasons I do: because they need to go somewhere else afterwards, such as nursery, work, the gym.

confused

And, yes, I do park sensibly.

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 21:23:43

But onyx a lot of the parents would be home quicker if they walked or rode a bike.

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 21:24:09

I can complain about what ever I want!

my 4X4 is lovely and safe. it is currently just my DH and I, but when TTC has paid off it will keep my future DCs safe, and comfortable!

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 21:24:21

And high school? Can an 11 -16 year old not get themselves to school in the most part?

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 21:25:07

Yes, I'm aware your 4x4 is safe for you two but it isn't safe for everyone else who uses the roads.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 25-Nov-12 21:25:28

There'll be no twattery from me wink jack

I'm cleansed I tell thee.

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 21:25:52

I think I'm going to regret asking this but is the 4x4 hatred thing because a). they're as expensive as lots of other cars b). they take up the same amount of space as many estate cars, c). they use the same amount of fuel as many other high-powered cars or d). they are driven just as well or poorly as every other car but they are both conspicuous and an easy target?
I got driven in to by a man in a Ford Focus once but I don't hate all hatchback owners. Today a woman parked her Polo in the middle of two spaces but I'm ok with VW drivers. Yesterday a man in a very powerful BMW pulled over to pick up a glove I had dropped from my pocket whilst pushing the buggy but we all know what people say about BMW drivers ...
OK come and get me ... eeek!

Iggly Sun 25-Nov-12 21:26:29

<rolls eyes and laughs>

All the other cars aren't small, they're normal sized.

Eve Sun 25-Nov-12 21:26:36

I live opposite a school and am frequently blocked in.

I take pics and email to the local pcso, I also drive a HUGE 4x4 so pull out and sit up tight behind them looking fierce... They usually move.

One lady in a beige Picasso also always parks across front of my drive, so I drive my 4x4 up to inches from her front bumper, (benefit of parking sensors ) and glare! She usually move sharpish, in fact she sees me coming and moves..l though why she parks there in the 1st place, I don't know.

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 21:26:40

Have you got your bingo card out Everlong?

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 21:27:35

No for me it is because they are unnecessary and dangerous.

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 21:27:35

Oh, was so not implying that the twattery would be coming from you, Everlong grin

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 21:28:41

People who have big people carriers for one pfb wind me up for the same reason.

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 21:29:21

I have an MPV. It's as big as many 4x4s. What's the difference? confused
(i can park though)

onyx72 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:29:29

Walk to school, walk home and then get in my car?

What a palaver.

Iggly Sun 25-Nov-12 21:30:10

I'd happily be corrected but for me it is the size, they get in the way. There are a lot around here. Less estates now I think of it. I don't like any unnecessarily big car.

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 21:31:28

Offred - that'll be me then. grin

WholeLottaRosie Sun 25-Nov-12 21:31:32

Do some of you realise what "4x4" actually means?

I have a 4x4. It's a saloon.

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 21:32:05

offred, so I should get a smaller car so that I am just as likely to die in a road accident as them?! you dont like my 4X4 because i am more likely to live then you!?

livingfortoday Sun 25-Nov-12 21:32:05

Oh I just want to have a related rant.

"dear you know who, yes where you park is technically legal, but it does cause an obstruction that fact that you park there after several accidents involving the buses shows how arrogant you are. And you have a dam cheek to go on about others who bring cars yet live near enough to walk when you park in the nearest spot next to the school" (it is in a gap next to bus stop near a junction)

Yes I have I shoos with this conceited school gate mum, who incidentally wastes 4 hours per week getting there early enough to get this space.

livingfortoday Sun 25-Nov-12 21:32:16

God that felt good

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 21:33:12

offred, i must really drive you mad then!! since we currently have NO pfb! only 2 lovely dogs!

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 21:33:23

But what is unnecessary to one family might be wholly necessary to another. We have a second home and need a big car which can fit dog, children and all associated paraphernalia for the journey. We could have an estate car but a 4x4 is more comfortable. I do acknowledge that the higher bonnet might be more dangerous in an accident but I think you have to work on keeping your own family safe and there are so many accidents involving lorries that we felt that it was a good move for us.
I actually do make sure that I don't drive like a menace or park like an idiot as I don't want to live up to the stereotype.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 25-Nov-12 21:34:05

Oh I know that jack
I'm just convincing myself grin

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 21:34:45

No, so you are less likely to kill someone in an accident or inconvenience people with your pointlessly massive wealth symbol!

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 21:35:47

but i would much rather keep myself and DH and my dogs safe.

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 21:36:22

Offred - why does my MPV bother you, and more to the point... Why do you care?!

Iggly Sun 25-Nov-12 21:37:15

I knew someone would say that Gin.

To me, it's because we all have to share road space. So if there are more big cars out there, it's harder for everyone. Otherwise I'm not bothered about lifestyle choices.

Most accidents are caused by driver error anyway. So poor drivers are protecting themselves and making it worse for others by driving tanks around. Not sure that's a good thing! <not sure that makes sense>

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 21:37:52

Thought I'd already expressed pity rather than being pissed off. It is sad that people can be so selfish.

We have 4 children btw and don't have a stupid car, also don't use a car for the school run/short distances.

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 21:40:28

Why is it more of a "wealth symbol" than say an Aston Martin or Bentley though? If I started a thread about a Bentley Continental hatred I bet I wouldn't get the same reaction.
I must say TwoFacedCows, you're not doing the 4x4 drivers any favours. It's not cool or very refined to use your ownership of one to lord it over everyone else. That is why people hate us!

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 21:40:45

I care because of the pollution and because of the danger posed by people driving cars. I also care about the inadequate driving skills of most drivers which put vulnerable road users at risk, a risk which is magnified the larger the car is. I see people who have unnecessarily large cars or who drive them because not driving is a "palaver" even though it would save them time and money and reduce pollution as selfish and inconsiderate.

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 21:41:23

Everlong - help! I've been sucked in!

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 21:41:59

A fair point Iggly. Nice to be able to have a proper discussion without people getting grumpy!!

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 21:44:17

Ginandtonicandamassageplease, i have heard enough of this 4X4s-are-driven-by-the-devil type shit! So could not careless what people think anymore!

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 21:44:32

But our 4x4's emissions are less than DH's sports car. What about hybrids? Porsche and Lexus both do one in a 4x4 model. Did you also k ow that when you buy a new Landrover you also have a pay a carbon offset charge?

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 21:44:49

Offred - my MPV is a similar size to a VW Golf, just taller. Mileage is 50mpg. I can drive well and I can park. But, yes, one child and an MPV. Nice to know people are judging me though hmm

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 25-Nov-12 21:45:30

<throws rope to jack> and PULL!

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 21:46:37

But I drive a 4x4 and think you are making yourself sound like a bit of a twit. That's got nothing to do with the car but to do with your attitude. It's not a tool to make you feel superior. It's just a car.

Lueji Sun 25-Nov-12 21:48:10

People who have big people carriers for one pfb wind me up for the same reason.

Maybe they are planning a big family, or do carry more people (ILs, For example?)
Don't judge people!

livingfortoday Sun 25-Nov-12 21:48:11

Some smaller 4x4 looking cars are not actually 4x4 driven, just 2wheel drive and therefore don't use as much fuel. Also a lot have better Eco use on them.

It amazes me re pollution argument as it depends on how you drive a car also, mileage and types of journeys made.

what if a family had a 4x4 with higher than average usage but didn't take foreign holidays ie flying abroad. It's pointless unless you can balance that argument out.

Many 4x4 look bigger just because they are higher up but actually don't take up much more space than saloons.

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 21:49:09

You aren't doing too well at defending your driving of one. No-one said "driven by the devil" I said selfish and inconsiderate of others and you seemed to agree with that assessment when you said showing off about having money by driving a ridiculously impractical car was more important to you than the safety or consideration of other and more vulnerable road users two.

I think maybe a few people who love those admiring glances they get when they drive their stupid cars don't realise a lot of people will actually be thinking "twat"... But they are just jealous you are so wealthy aren't they?

Iggly Sun 25-Nov-12 21:49:24

Yes Gin, I agree!

All the stuff about mileage, environmentally friendly etc - I'm not bothered really.

I'd just like everyone to drive properly and be considerate of other road users.

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 21:50:05

<grabs onto rope and climbs out>

Phew.

No arguing with people, is there. grin

Lueji Sun 25-Nov-12 21:50:16

Answering the op:
No
No

onyx72 Sun 25-Nov-12 21:50:48

Offred - please explain how walking to school when I don't have to is going to save me time. Or save me money when I still have to drive my car after walking to and from school.

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 21:51:21

It isn't about emissions compared to another car it is about having a bigger car than you need and driving it short distances half empty. The total emissions would be less if you had a small fuel efficient car, it isn't about comparing like with like or new with old.

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 21:52:30

It's not going well for Two!!
Everlong -I was so intrigued to know what you wrote that was deleted yesterday!!

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 21:53:00

Luiji - thank you. We were planning a larger family. Sadly it looks like that isn't going to happen... At least I've got a huge car to piss off intolerant argumentative judgy types grin

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 25-Nov-12 21:53:35

jack have a wine instead of this nonsense wink

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 21:53:38

I don't know about you onyx but as I explained up the thread most of the parents at my school would get to and from school quicker on bicycles and some would on foot because they don't live far away and there is a lot of palaver involved with cars that there isn't with walking or bikes. I pass lots of people's homes before they get home, parents who leave the gates at the same time as me pass me when I am almost home everyday.

livingfortoday Sun 25-Nov-12 21:53:45

Onyx

I drive my car the short distance to school if I'm going out straight after drop off, same at pick up.

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 21:54:12

But you're assuming that I drive my 4x4 short distances ... I don't. As I said, we have ours for our long journeys on holiday.

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 21:54:46

I'm not! hmm

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Sun 25-Nov-12 21:54:58

I'm afraid I can't divulge that now.

You just had to be there I suppose wink

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 21:55:41

gin, of course it is just a car!! and it is not a tool to make me feel superior, i don't need anything to make me feel like that!

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 21:56:37

Yes you are : " it is about having a bigger car than you need and driving it short distances half empty."

Iggly Sun 25-Nov-12 21:56:46

^ i don't need anything to make me feel like that!^

Is that because you feel that way anyway? grin

livingfortoday Sun 25-Nov-12 21:57:01

So my car is empty a lot of times during week just me and baby dd in it. But evenings and weekends it's full. You can't judge how full a car is for school run alone. How do you know who they've already dropped off, or older family members due to pick up.

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 21:57:01

Oh dear Two. It's worse than I thought.

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 21:58:04

Iggly - do you mean she feels like a tool anyway?!!

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 21:58:11

What I'm assuming is you don't need a 4x4, for which the argument is it keeps your children safe (although not sure how they compare to the safer models of Volvo) at the expense of posing a risk to other people's children, bikes, other road users etc.

livingfortoday Sun 25-Nov-12 21:58:17

Gi. Yuk are coming across as if you have an motoring inferiority complex.

livingfortoday Sun 25-Nov-12 21:58:39

GIn you

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 21:59:57

That wasn't directed personally at you. I was explaining about people who have big half empty cars on the school run. The argument about 4x4s is that they are unnecessary and dangerous.

Plomino Sun 25-Nov-12 21:59:59

So just to check , if I drive my Discovery considerately to school , from a distance of some 5 miles away with no pavement and no public transport service whatsoever , with 6 out of 7 seats occupied for at least 50% of the journey , that's ok ? Presuming I don't abandon it across someone's driveway of course .

And most of the time , it's full up of shopping or other random crap on the way back, as we do all our daily shopping errands on the same round trip to save fuel . Being economical and all that .

Iggly Sun 25-Nov-12 22:01:11

Haha not a tool, superior grin

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 22:01:11

<wears hosiery on hands. Talks to self>

grin
On a totally unrelated note - Everlong, yes..I will have a wine thank you

livingfortoday Sun 25-Nov-12 22:01:12

The space inside a 4 x4 is the same if. It smaller than estates and some saloons, don't see these being criticised. They are nor prominent because of their height and profile so have become such a target.

gimmecakeandcandy Sun 25-Nov-12 22:01:56

hmmm...lots of 4x4 silly comments. I drive a 4x4 and would never do what the woman the op mentioned has done! I agree with the taking photos as evidence - she is a bloody idiot and needs her sense of entitlement fined the crap out of her!

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 22:02:04

Offred - but I do need it, as I said before, as otherwise I can't fit 2 dogs, 2 children and DH and I in the car to be able to travel to our other home during every school holiday.

Living - sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Why?

PelvicFloorClenchReminder Sun 25-Nov-12 22:02:15

YANBU. I also hate the school run drivers who swerve in and park right across the sodding cocking arseing pavement right in front of me and my DS when we're trying to walk in. Probably me being unreasonable for forgetting my sodding cocking arseing jetpack to fly over the top of them, since it's either that or walk down the middle of the sodding cocking arseing road!

Some in vehicles with four wheel drive, some in vehicles with two wheel drive.

All of them sodding cocking arseing muffgusts.

Kennyp Sun 25-Nov-12 22:02:44

i live far too near the blooooody school. i write a note which says "please do not block the driveway. many thanks" and then stick it under their windscreen wiper. so totally non passive agressive, imo, and just asking a simple favour.

then i hide upstairs and watch twat parents get into car, then see the note tucked under their windscreen wipers. then invariably kid/s in the back will see mudder read the note and say "what does that note say" -- so mudder passes it back to said kid/s and because i write wellllll neatly they can easily sound out the phonics and they understand that their mother/father/carer/whoever is a lazy great arse --passive aggressive a go go

alternatively, keep your car on the road (doesn't tamper with in surance i don't think) and across your blocked kerb just to prove a big fat hair point.

or write "FUCK OFF" in moss letters on your wall

or start filming "KERB YOUR ENTHUSIASM" right outside your house every day.

or buy a gun and keep it fully loaded at all times.

you're welcome ;)

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 22:03:57

Discovery is still unnecessary and dangerous. Why bother having one? Because you like it? I don't think that's more important than being considerate of other people. I'm aware me thinking that does not change any of your minds but I'm not going to feel bad for judging that to be selfish and inconsiderate either. Don't know why it would bother you that someone would make an assessment like that about your choice to prioritise your own family over others or have a particular type of car you like.

livingfortoday Sun 25-Nov-12 22:04:18

Plomino I don't know?!

What a out booze run to tesco express?

Im a sahp, I do this to save fuel, I make DH work twice as hard, but iron all his shirts and use nice ham and bjs as currency. God and I use disabled toilet to change dd in.

Lueji Sun 25-Nov-12 22:05:16

Going back a bit, the worst I have had was when about to cross at a zebra crossing with DS, a car, parked on the pavement (!), reversing onto us and almost hitting us, and the woman driver getting crossed that I slapped the car (to tell the driver we were there).

This was after Mass!

I would have happily slapped her face!

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 22:05:22

You don't specifically need a 4x4 for that though. That's really the whole point. You chose it, you prefer it but that is different to need.

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 22:05:58

iggly- grin

Plomino Sun 25-Nov-12 22:05:59

Offered why do you think it unnecessary? Have I told you anything at all of my lifestyle ? Or have you just made a generalisation?

wonderstuff Sun 25-Nov-12 22:06:20

YANBU. I bloody hate driving to school and try to avoid it as much as possible - my children have waterproof trousers and wellies so that we can walk whatever the weather. I do get why people have to drive - dh drives to drop off twice a week because we both work on those days. But I don't understand why so many people drive, or why they have such massive cars, or why they are so inconsiderate. One mum was complaining because it was so difficult to park and she had a massive car so made even more challenging - in my head I was saying bloody walk then you moron - but obviously I did my best sympathetic nod. I have a teeny tiny car and find it difficult to get a space on the rare times I drive.

I get unreasonably angry with people who tell me I'm 'good' for walking or I overhear telling their dc 'of course we aren't walking' on rainy days. I don't direct this anger anywhere - just in my head I despair.

Driving cars is bad - avoid it as much as possible.

Plomino Sun 25-Nov-12 22:07:29

Ah but if I was on a booze run, I'd only need to use the Seat . My alcohol tolerance is non existent .

Lueji Sun 25-Nov-12 22:08:42

I was explaining about people who have big half empty cars on the school run.
Because you know all about their lives???

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 22:10:14

Driving cars is bad - avoid it as much as possible haha! i drive my dogs to their walk sometimes! grin

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 22:10:31

Because a big status 4x4 is not necessary in an urban area for any reason at all. They have a use in the country up mountains in Wales but the cars I are round there are all little nippy cars not massive 4x4s which are often only in farms and are work vehicles. People want 4x4s they don't need them, they could be replaced by more functional cars which are more appropriate in urban areas.

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 22:11:18

Ok, now I'm really confused! I don't know if it was directed towards me or not but I don't mind if other people mind what car I have. It wouldn't affect my choice.
Living - I don't know what you mean about the inferiority complex. Surely the opposite should be true considering what cars I own??

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 22:13:04

No lueji because I have seen them driving their one child in a massive empty car half a mile to school every day. I don't think planning to have more children is really a reason to buy a massive car or having an extra seat to ferry children home either. Plenty of people who have loads of Children and animals don't have 4x4s or big people carriers.

wonderstuff Sun 25-Nov-12 22:13:57

Why? Why would you drive your dogs to their walk? Cars are bad, using fossil fuels is a massive problem. Icecaps are melting.

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 22:14:37

Offred, I see your point but that's life. I like to have a nice handbag but I could just use a carrier bag. I like to wear a waterproof coat when it's raining but I could just cut a hole in a bin bag and use that. I like to use a lead when I walk my dog but I could use DD's skipping rope. I could go on but I'm pretty sure no one wants me to!

FourthTimeAround Sun 25-Nov-12 22:15:12

Eh?! 4 x 4s aren't annoying because they're big, they're annoying because they're driven either by chavvy types who think they're an essential fashion statement or by nervy sheep types who think their family can only avoid being slaughtered on the road by being elevated an extra ten inches or so.. OP, haven't you got a yellow line?

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 22:15:19

not necessary but nice! i love mine, even if most of the time it is just me in it!

Plenty of people who have loads of Children and animals don't have 4x4s or big people carriers. and plenty of people DO!

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 22:16:23

sad wonderstuff dont cry! sad

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 22:17:02

Using a lead instead of a skipping rope and a handbag instead of a carrier bag is just pointless and in some ways ethically worse though whereas not having an antisocial vehicle which increases the risk to other road users is not the same thing at all.

Plomino Sun 25-Nov-12 22:17:13

Ok , I give you the urban bit . But I'm not . I'm in a rural hamlet , in the arse end of nowhere . The roads are diabolical , in fact have cracked two chassis on normal cars and one people carrier since we've been here . I use mine to tow my horsebox with, twice a week when I've not got a broken leg. It's the workhorse that carries kids, feed , greyhounds , logs , and everything else for family life because its the only car left once I take the smaller car to work . So it gets used for its purpose . So are there any mitigating circumstances , or am I still damned ?

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 22:17:36

What's your point two?

wonderstuff Sun 25-Nov-12 22:18:08

What gave you the impression I was crying? I'm environmentally responsible (or try to be - I still have a car) I'm not pathetic.

FourthTimeAround Sun 25-Nov-12 22:18:16

BTW in my part of north London it's sheepy eejits driving - and struggling to park - big shiny Mercs..

livingfortoday Sun 25-Nov-12 22:18:40

Well I have a 4x4 type car but it is not actually a 4x4 it is classed as a crossover car, specifically for urban driving.

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 22:18:42

No plomino you are not damned! You are using the appropriate vehicle for your circumstances! grin <gavel>

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 22:19:11

What about the royal family Fourth? Are they chavvy or sheep? I think I know why you don't like 4x4s.

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 22:19:43

4x4 for urban driving? On Tarmac? Yeah? Surely a waste of money?

I think part of the reason more people have bigger cars is car seats too tbh. This is the first generation that legally have to have a car seat up to 11yo or 135cm tall. So with 3 children under 10 you need a bigger car to accommodate the car seats. I had a lovely Toyota yaris. But when I fell pg with dc3 I had to look into a car that could take 3 car seats (one stage 1, 2 high back boosters). This left very little choice. In the end I got a 7 seater 4x4 because it was best for my family.

I can both drive it, and park it. And I walk my dcs to school, even at 37 wks pg. please don't tar all 4x4 drivers with the same brush!

(op this is not aimed at you, if somebody blocked my drive with a 4x4 I would probably include that info in my rant too!)

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 22:20:21

Of course planning to have more children is a reason to buy an MPV confused

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 22:20:46

Why?

FourthTimeAround Sun 25-Nov-12 22:20:46

Like the way one poster said "We've got a second home so we need a second home.." Oh dear! Made me chuckle, that did

piglettsmummy Sun 25-Nov-12 22:20:54

Yanbu! Tbh if it had happened to me Ida turned into a traffic warden and I'll photos showing where it was parked and licence plate etc and sent them to whoever issues the fines! Just coz shes in a rush don't mean she can park illegally!

Plomino Sun 25-Nov-12 22:21:32

Phew! < fans self dramatically >

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 22:22:51

To fit all the people and luggage in, Fourth!!! Please read the whole sentence or is the green haze surrounding you obliterating your view of the screen?

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 22:23:01

But still unnecessary, plenty of cars that take car seats that are not big tall pedestrian/cyclist killing things. Best for your own family is really what I mean. Not best choice for children trying to cross the road around school.

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 22:24:41

Yes, because all those short cars don't hurt people.

You're just talking rubbish now.

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 22:25:00

My head is spinning from all these circles we are going in...

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 22:25:32

Short cars, Jack - LOVE that!!!

TwoIfBySea Sun 25-Nov-12 22:25:53

Easy to spot who the 4x4 drivers are then.

Keep your pants on, the mention of what kind of car was merely to show it was big and bulky. If she'd said a mercedes or bmw then it would be a large, long car etc.

A few schools in our town have started this rule of no parking within a few streets of the school. That'll be fun! There are parents who drive less than 1/2 mile to the school, and no they're not going to work afterwards. They've tried to instil a practice of walking to school but there was talk of it being unsafe. Yes, it's unsafe because you are parking on double yellow lines, on pavements etc. so you are causing the problem you're complaining about!

Sheesh.

OP sending support - these kinds of people are selfish.

PelvicFloorClenchReminder Sun 25-Nov-12 22:26:08

What was this thread supposed to be about again?

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 22:26:47

haha! short cars really had me giggling! grin

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 22:27:19

Parking in the wrong place but 4x4 was mentioned ...

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 22:28:36

No jack any car can hurt someone obviously are you wilfully misunderstanding that having a massive car increases the risk you pose, along with things like driving skill/style etc

livingfortoday Sun 25-Nov-12 22:29:54

Offered, not all 4x4 type cars are actually 4 wheel drive. And the. It only kicks in when needed.

No small cars are involved in accidents then, or long cars, or tall cars or vans or buses.

wonderstuff Sun 25-Nov-12 22:31:01

One of our local car parks has a couple of spaces 'only suitable for short cars' mine fits smile

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 22:31:08

Living please explain the inferiority complex comment!!

livingfortoday Sun 25-Nov-12 22:31:31

Well I park considerately in all the cars I have ever ever ever owned. I don't take foreign hols so more than balance my co2 footprint honies.

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 22:32:04

What is hard to understand about the point that I find a choice to increase the risks to other road users for no reason other than you like a 4x4 or you want to show off about being rich or you might have more children in ten years selfish and inconsiderate?

livingfortoday Sun 25-Nov-12 22:33:26

Gin someone up there was goings on bout the big cars, it's a basic classic thing whereby people feel small in self esteem terms in relation to size, in this case car size. (tougher is in cheeks)

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 22:34:40

It's ok offend, I can drive my car. Not hit anything in nearly 20 years driving, so I think I'll manage not to run over a small child, thanks

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 22:35:35

Ha, *offred, not offend

Damn autocorrect...

livingfortoday Sun 25-Nov-12 22:36:53

Omfg. You do not have to be rich to own a 4 x4 style and sized car. Are you referring to discoverys, Q7's, qushais, x3's they are all the same but different in there engine size, emissions and size but slot he same type iyswim?

Ie you are talking 20k to 65k so smaller 4x4 are not nessicarily exclusive to 'rich' folk'

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 22:38:28

But you don't choose a car based on the assumption that you will inevitably knock over a pedestrian. Choosing a car is complicated and multi faceted decision. I would guess that everyone buys a car at the upper end of their budget and chooses something which is safe for them, practical and aesthetically appealing. When all those things are in the pot, the concept of what would happen if, God forbid, you were to knock someone over isn't the only one. I guess it's a classic, I hope that doesn't ever happen to me phenomenon. Maybe that makes me selfish of others but I know that I would put my family's safety before that of others in a hypothetical situation. I don't know many mothers who wouldn't.

wonderstuff Sun 25-Nov-12 22:39:44

Offred I get you, I agree, but you aren't going to change opinions. People convince themselves of their need. I lived without a car for ages - now I have a car and I do love it - I know I should use it as little as possible, but I do use it for non-essential trips because its nice to be able to go out and I'm not always organised enough to avoid extra trips to the shops. My consumption is relatively low - because I have a efficient car and I am mindful, but I guess I do what I do to make my life nice and I justify it because other people are worse and really in the grand scheme of things what change can I effect.
Its very hard to see the bigger picture.
I do have friends who refuse to drive or fly and live life in a very very environmentally responsible way. I would find that very difficult.

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 22:39:54

hahahaha!!

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 22:42:08

You can be the best driver in the world jack but children can be unpredictable.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. Simply explaining what I think.

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 22:42:42

Ok, living - I think you maybe got me mixed up with someone else earlier! Very true about the massive price range with 4x4s.

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 22:43:12

And I'm not saying 4x4s are all expensive, I'm talking about two who has her 4x4 to show other people she has money.

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 22:43:29

I've seen the light. I'm going to buy a short car Yaris.

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 22:45:04

I'd love to know what car Two has ... I want year, model, mileage, is it customised, engine size, bhp. Just how much money does Two have?!!

wonderstuff Sun 25-Nov-12 22:45:07

Much easier to park grin

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 22:45:16

offred your posts sound mental! children can be unpredictable, so what? should we not drive? teach your bloody children!

Bogeyface Sun 25-Nov-12 22:45:47

The biggest dickhead parker at our school has a number plater "J 0 NNY"

Those of you of a certain age will understand why his nickname is Dobber.

And yes, he drives a 4X4, a Porsche Cayenne 4X4 no less, and is almost 60 on his third family with his 27 year old wife.

Its like walking into the dictionary definition of "cliché" every morning grin

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 22:46:49

A cayenne ... how "modern" as my mother would say!!

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 22:47:05

I think half the thing that gets me is the crap excuses people make "I need a car for possible future children" "I try to walk to school" "I need a 4x4 for my dogs" no, it is honest to say I liked the car I chose and I can't often be bothered to walk when I have a car and actually yeah I'm not all that bothered about how it affects other people... Which is just more upfront. Two can't be blamed for not being upfront at least.

SofiaAmes Sun 25-Nov-12 22:48:00

Hmm Offred, you seem to have a great intolerance for anyone doing things differently than you do.
Going back to your response to my suggestion for a Kiss and Drop....why don't you put some effort into something positive like getting things changed at your local school so that they are open earlier and drop offs can be staggered. Or maybe there is some other way to make things function more fluidly. It would certainly be more helpful to society than sitting on mumsnet telling everyone else that their lifestyle choices don't suit you.

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 22:48:21

we have a lovely range rover, we bought it last year. I do not know mileage off the top of my head. it is gorgeous inside, cream interior with black piping around the edges - leather of course!

i do not have a lot of money myself, DH is loaded tho! grin

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 22:48:28

Oh Offred, I was beginning to warm to you and your ways ...

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 22:48:57

So they stand behind reversing cars and run into the road two and you actually can't teach them better judgement because their lack of judgement is down to being a child.

Viviennemary Sun 25-Nov-12 22:49:20

YANBU. Report her. Selfish cheeky woman. And in a 4 x 4 to add insult to injury!

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 22:49:39

aww, thanks offred! thanks upfront indeed!

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 22:50:46

(Whispers) pretty sure you don't get Range Rovers with cloth interiors, Two. I'm getting the picture that it's not all that new ... Hope it's not an Evoque ...

Offred Sun 25-Nov-12 22:51:37

It isn't that they don't suit me it is that they are selfish and inconsiderate choices, make of that what you will but no-one has actually demonstrated how they aren't.

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 22:52:53

why would you think it is not all that new?

TheOriginalSteamingNit Sun 25-Nov-12 22:52:59

twofaced you have no money, but dh is 'loaded'? What's wrong with this picture.....?

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 22:54:05

ermm nothing.

Viviennemary Sun 25-Nov-12 22:55:07

What happend to 'with all my worldly goods I thee endow', Doesn't that include 4 x 4's with cream interiors where appropriate.

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 22:55:56

Let's just call it a hunch.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Sun 25-Nov-12 22:56:02

You're married. You have no money. He's 'loaded'. Is that not a bit odd?

vigglewiggle Sun 25-Nov-12 22:57:19

I knew it would be a '4x4' before I clicked on the thread. I'm not sure the mechanical capabilities of the vehicle matter. It was described as such to emphasise the size of the vehicle.

<Secretly we can all come to our own conclusions about the mentality of the people who chose to buy these type of vehicles and how this impacts on their ability to park considerately>

TwoFacedCows Sun 25-Nov-12 22:58:18

no he earns loads more then me. my money is spending money, just a drop in the ocean compared to his.

We have separate accounts. He buys anything i need/want. nothing wrong with that.

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 22:58:39

Careful viggle!! This is a hornets' nest! Don't anger the beast!

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 22:59:06

Ooh - wasn't calling anyone a beast. Just a turn of phrase!!

Bogeyface Sun 25-Nov-12 23:03:46

Oh, a "kept" woman as well as a 4X4 owner? How marvellous!

[Kicks the hornets nest and runs away] grin

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 23:06:33

I've got it - Two is a wag driving a white Evoque with black wheels, tinted windows and a pink fluffy steering wheel!!

Plomino Sun 25-Nov-12 23:12:39

Maybe not ? I'm intrigued now . Two, is the Range Rover just a common or garden bog standard one , or does it have 'overfinch' emblazoned on it in obvious view ?

Do you have your signature in crystal on the inside of the door , a la Coleen Rooney ? Nothing wrong with that if it floats your boat , but I'm fascinated by how some of the really rich live .

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Sun 25-Nov-12 23:23:08

Ooh Plomino, you are way better than this than me!!

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 23:44:23

If I ever win the lottery I might get an overfinch.

JackThePumpkinKing Sun 25-Nov-12 23:53:34

"i need my car for future children"

If id been able to have them, yes. We'd have needed the bigger car. Why do you keep going on and on about that? sad

We have one car. We camp. Everything needs to go in the car, so we bought one
big enough to meet our expected needs.

Crap as life is, things change.

Now. Will you get over your petty excusesand stop being so fucking judgemental

FourthTimeAround Sun 25-Nov-12 23:59:58

Yes, but unless you live in a bog, you don't - don't - need a 4x4....

JackThePumpkinKing Mon 26-Nov-12 00:02:01

Rubbish. My parents need one for the horse box

FourthTimeAround Mon 26-Nov-12 00:21:19

Ha! So it's settled then... If you're within the M25, and you drive a tank, don't expect anything but derision! smile

CarrotCruncher Mon 26-Nov-12 00:45:22

YANBU to ask her to move but it might have been the way you said it that caused the problem.Maybe if you had not mentioned the fact it is illegal to park here it would have gone alot better for you even though you were right in what you say.It sounds like you ruffled her feathers

Bogeyface Mon 26-Nov-12 00:45:32

Rubbish. My parents need one for the horse box

Really hoping that that was tongue in cheek!

Lueji Mon 26-Nov-12 03:53:02

Offred, cars don't kill people, drivers do. ;)

And again, don't judge people by the 5 min you see them every day.

SofiaAmes Mon 26-Nov-12 04:35:12

oh dear...I wonder if the judgies realize that you can't easily tell if it's a 4x4 from the outside. I own two SUV's that are not 4x4's. Before you get extra judgie judgie, I live in Los Angeles where I need to own at least one car that seats lots of people in order to manage all the carpoolees that I cart around. But if you do really want to go back to being judgie.... when I lived in London, I owned a Toyota Landcruiser that seated 7 and happened to be 4x4 (although I had absolutely no idea how to get it in 4 wheel drive...I just needed the extra seats and since it was purchased used...I got what was available).

Cozy9 Mon 26-Nov-12 06:36:48

If it happened to me I would sprinkle tacks all over the area where the 4x4 parks. Or buy one of those "stinger" things that the police use.

differentnameforthis Mon 26-Nov-12 06:42:30

I think the 4x4 is probably relevant as the op states it is a double driveway, so car blocked almost the entire thing, whereas with a smaller car, op may have been able to get out.

TheNebulousBoojum Mon 26-Nov-12 06:48:19

Nothing to add.
Except this www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELc_LNnof48

Offred Mon 26-Nov-12 07:10:10

Lueji - except that isn't strictly true. The type of car you have increases the risk you pose to others as a driver. If you choose a car that increases the risks to others for no good reason then I think you are making a selfish and inconsiderate choice.

Jack - because it isn't a good reason. Not many people plan to have 5 children and if you bought a 7 seater people carrier and drove it whilst you had your 5 children it'd be a waste of petrol/diesel/tax and would get in other people's way for years and you'd probably even be at the point of replacing it when you had reached the 5th child. Besides I don't think many people who have 7 seaters are planning or even wanting 5 children, they plan two or three and "need space for the pram/dogs/holidays/extra children" except that they don't really need that car for those things. They want that car with loads of extra space because it is nice for them.

Offred Mon 26-Nov-12 07:11:58

Sofia - it isn't about being a 4x4 it is about being an SUV and being dangerous to pedestrians/cyclists. SUVs are not the only vehicles that carry large numbers of passengers.

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Mon 26-Nov-12 07:23:08

YANBU she is a selfish inconsiderate moo

We have a huge car (not a 4x4 though) but we need it, I do not apologise for that at all

SofiaAmes Mon 26-Nov-12 07:24:15

Well you/others seem to be mixing up your terms. There are lots of reasons for needing a 4x4 which are likely to be different from reasons for needing an SUV. There could be reasons for needing a 4x4 that is also an SUV, or and SUV that is also a 4x4. If you're going to tell everyone how they should live their lives, it would be good if you got your terms and instructions straight.
By the way, just wondering if you had ever calculated how many people died/suffered in the making of the computer you are posting on, or the clothes you are wearing. Why do you get to decide those are ok sacrifices to make in your life, but don't allow others to make similar decisions for themselves.

gimmecakeandcandy Mon 26-Nov-12 07:28:55

Well I love my big massive 4x4 and I don't care what assumptions people make. I am a very considerate driver and would never do what the rude woman the op described did. You can't judge people by their car - although people with a chip on their shoulder often do.

DorsetKnob Mon 26-Nov-12 07:28:57

I think it is disingenious to call think that all 4x4 are bigger than cars, my sisters one is a lot smaller than my mothers volvo estate, just say it is a huge car.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Mon 26-Nov-12 07:40:32

The woman was rude and ignorant.

The fact that her car was a 4x4 has nothing to do with anything.

Just a poor excuse to start a fight.

One I won't be joining in <twirls>

SofiaAmes Mon 26-Nov-12 07:40:43

One of my suv's is smaller than a prius, or just about any other politically correct car you can think of. It's the one I use for going about town (even in Los Angeles where there are no pedestrians smile ). I try very hard not to get on a freeway unless I am in my big suv that will protect me and my children if we hit another car...not too many pedestrians and bicyclists around on the freeways.

no I took picture of Car parking the dropped Kerb that was forcing mums and kids and prams onto thr road and cause me to come down the road at school run time in the road .

Local pcso took Reg and was going to have a quiet word with driver and the Driver that another time parked on the drop Kerb outside my house which has a carport and a sign for use of ### road only got a lovely big fine and earful of me I told them cant park there I need to get out and do school run and droppe dkerb is there so i can get my wheelchair out .followed by earfull of pcso when they did not move as in a rush.so i caught the pcso up the road and got him to go wait .

oh and to point out not a 4by4 and our car is far bigger than any 4by4 grin.

The real problem isn't 4x4s or bad driving or parking, it's schools that were built in circa 1800 that have no provision for car parking or sitting.

Also the rule that you have to stay with your child until the bell rings but there is no where to park.

Our school was built at its current location about 8 years ago. It has plenty of space for cars in a double lay by and you can leave your child in the playground starting at 830. There is a playground attendant for this purpose.

Have your schools come into the 21st C in terms of car space and/or get them to change the rule about all parents having to stay.

Or, be like the US, and have the council put on free buses.

Sorted.

(Yes, I know it isn't this simple. I'm being facetious because I think the 4x4 argument is fucking stupid. They are cars. Get over yourselves, all of you. You chip wearing 4x4 drivers and you self righteous small car drivers/walkers/bike riders. For the record, my son and I walk to school. 1.5 miles one way. And I couldn't care a fucking flying fig what everyone drives so long as they aren't running me over when they do it.)

crunchernumber Mon 26-Nov-12 07:49:06

"one of my SUVs is smaller than a Prius"

Surely this needs to go in the Mumsnet all of fame grin

TheNebulousBoojum Mon 26-Nov-12 07:51:29

Unfortunately, it's the inconvenience caused to others by the owners of very big vehicles. The crap parking, the fact that you can't see round them, the sheer size in a city with a medieval street structure.
That's before you get into the environmental issues.
All builds them a bad reputation, and then the image gets trashed without further thought.

Offred Mon 26-Nov-12 07:52:18

Not stopping other people making any choice just explaining that unnecessary big cars which increase the risks to other people are selfish and inconsiderate, so are clothes that are not ethically made, food that's not organically grown, computers/phones made in exploitative factories... Don't get the point? "Oh your computer killed people so that means me having a selfish and inconsiderate car is not selfish and inconsiderate" flawed logic. What is the problem people have with owning their own decisions?

TheNebulousBoojum Mon 26-Nov-12 07:53:10

The idea of most children going to their local school is so that they can walk there.
Wall to wall tarmac to be used for less than an hour a day? Really?
School buses for a journey of less than a mile?

JackThePumpkinKing Mon 26-Nov-12 08:03:47

Did you miss the bit about camping, or are you deliberately ignore that?

My car is no more dangerous to pedestrians than a focus or a golf.

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Mon 26-Nov-12 08:05:15

My big car is totally necessary

Offred Mon 26-Nov-12 08:07:54

Why does camping require a big car? It might be nicer with a big car....

Yes people carriers are more dangerous to pedestrians because they are higher and longer and often wider than smaller cars.

No, in the US if you live less than a mile away, you are expected to walk and not clutter things up by driving.

And the kids all walk together, without a grown up, from about age 7.

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Mon 26-Nov-12 08:17:23

Do you accept that some people need big cars?

May

Same here infact we don`t have a car or 4x4 we have a Van .Is adapted Van before anyone jumps on why so big

as for local schools .We moved here and had to fight to get my dd into the school that is literally round the corner.Was offered one 3 miles away

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Mon 26-Nov-12 08:18:05

Or that some people need to drive everywhere?

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Mon 26-Nov-12 08:20:23

Human, I know what it's like smile sometimes I'd love a smaller car but sometimes life doesn't deal you a fair hand and you have to make do as best you can

JackThePumpkinKing Mon 26-Nov-12 08:21:06

"why does camping need a bigger car"
When we go camping we like to take things with us, like a tent, bags, cooking equipment etc. They wouldn't fit in a smaller car.

My car is no more dangerous to pedestrians than its no MPV equivalent.

Iggly Mon 26-Nov-12 08:35:32

I am a judgie. And to me, a 4x4 means one of those fuck off huge monsters that require a step ladder to get into the driver's seat. Not a "pretend wannabe" one, a proper big thing.

Not that it matters, it just means you have a ridiculously oversized car for, let's say, driving to the supermarket. On relatively smooth paved, tarmaced London streets. Not a mountain or bog in sight.

TwoFacedCows Mon 26-Nov-12 09:01:43

is this still going on!! haha! well i am off in my lovely 4X4, that requires a step ladder to get into the drivers seat because it is so huge -- not because i am a short arse-- and drive to my local woodland to walk my dogs! grin

TwoFacedCows Mon 26-Nov-12 09:02:15

sad my crossing out didnt work!

crunchernumber Mon 26-Nov-12 09:11:44

The police regularly police our school as parking is a nightmare but people's sense of entitlement is crazy.

A few weeks ago by three year old was nearly knocked off his scooter by a car trying to park on a corner, reversing onto the pavement. People mounting the pavements to do 3 point turns when they find there are no spaces at 8:40 in the cul de sac.

People regularly just park on people's driveways shock.

The problem with 4x4s is that owners always think that critics are just jealous. However,
they ARE more dangerous to pedestrians, particularly children, as visibility is worse.
they do cause more problems in places such as busy school runs as they take up more room and are more difficult to manoeuvre/turn

If the reasons for having one outweigh these, then obviously your choice but owners have to accept these facts and drive accordingly.

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Mon 26-Nov-12 09:15:00

How is visibility worse?

Mind how you go Two - don't knock over any ethnic peace bicycles (thank you Jeremy Clarkson) in your death trap!

Thank god the school run is over for the morning! Just came home to find someone had knocked the bin over in the driveway in order to do a 3-point turn. Luckily, it had fallen in a way that the contents hadn't spilled, which is good because the lorry will be round very soon for collection.

And the worst of it is that we are on a cul-de-sac that has a space suitable for turning part way along. So a few yards and the chap would actually have had more room to turn. angry

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Mon 26-Nov-12 09:20:40

Oh come on, Fry. Kick the hornets' nest and tell us what kind of car it was! If you didn't see then just make it up! (Passes a wooden spoon)

crunchernumber Mon 26-Nov-12 09:21:10

Visibility is worse because you are higher up. Therefore you are less able to see things which are lower down.

This is particularly why children are more at risk. They are much lower than you windows and therefore, the range at which you physically can't see them is greater than a smaller car.

I'm happy for you to prove me wrong on this - maybe ask Jeremy.

Dromedary Mon 26-Nov-12 09:26:00

Have you noticed how many 4X4s have personalised number plates? So you're rich - get over it.

4X4s use a lot more petrol. There's a limited amount of that and it's going go run out, remember?

Using a lot of petrol causes a lot of carbon emission. This is the cause of global warming, which is already starting to cause huge problems worldwide.

4X4s hog the road - we have lots of narrow lane roads here, and other people driving 4X4s means that you have to spend half your time reversing to find a place to let them pass (they usually expect the other driver to do the reversing).

There are safety issues with 4X4s - you may be safer, but others aren't. Don't other people matter?

Without any appreciable difference to your lifestyle (in a small car you can get to all the same places, believe it or not), you could avoid all of these problems.

You deliberately choose not to do so. What does that say about you? Your children are going to spend their lives in this world too, you know. They can't buy themselves out of the problems you're choosing to contribute to.

crunchernumber Mon 26-Nov-12 09:26:47

here

So yes, by all means laugh at the ethnic peace bikes and pour scorn on those lower down the food chain than you, but be aware of the risks you are taking to make yourself feel better.

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Mon 26-Nov-12 09:27:44

I think we all know where Jeremy stands on the 4x4 debate.
You can actually see much better in a 4x4 because you are higher up and so can see further ahead. It's the same principle as standing on tip toes to help you see better. You speak as though 4x4 are on stilts!!! You should have a sit in one - you might even like it ...

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Mon 26-Nov-12 09:29:36

The 4x4 haters have a very one dimensional and repetitive argument. Come up with something else people, please!

crunchernumber Mon 26-Nov-12 09:31:14

I have sat in one gin, I've even driven one.

However I don't own one because it is completely inappropriate for my needs. My main driving is in urban areas, car parks and residential areas.

Therefore I drive a small car.

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Mon 26-Nov-12 09:32:44

Dromedary, what about people that can't go to all the same places in a smaller car? I'm sure that not everyone with a big car strictly needs one but many do and who can judge people without knowing the reasons? (not that I think anyone should be judged for having a specific type of car)

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Mon 26-Nov-12 09:34:50

Cruncher - you've hit the nail on the head. You assume that I think I'm "higher up the food chain" because I have a 4x4. Of course I don't think that. I don't know you, how would I have any idea of your achievements and strengths in life. You could be a Nobel prize winner for all I know. I don't tend to make judgements based on tangible and expendable items. You, however, allow yourself to be made to feel "lower down the food chain" ( remember these are your words, not mine) because of what I, and others have, that you do not. It's just not logical.

crunchernumber Mon 26-Nov-12 09:36:11

When you can disprove the one dimensional argument, or come up with something to counter it, then we can all move on.

The fact is that 4x4 are more dangerous to pedestrians and, in particular, children than other cars.

That is a proven fact which you can't refute. And all the smug blustering in the world will not change that.

If you have personal reasons for owning one which override that then lovely, off you go.

Just don't expect others to forget those facts just because it makes you happy.

We all make judgements and draw lines about acceptable risks to ourselves and others. You have made yours, I have made mine.

I judge you on yours, but I'm not expecting you to care. I'm just expecting you to acknowledge the facts of the decision you've made and be OK with them, not ask everybody to come up with a 'more fun' argument.

Iggly Mon 26-Nov-12 09:36:38

You can't see little people well though Gin? Or things closer to you - hence lorries knocking cyclists off easily - same principle.

Cows, did you park across three two bays in the supermaket? Hog two traffic lanes and cut across several small normal cars on your way? grin

crunchernumber Mon 26-Nov-12 09:38:25

I didn't mean higher up the food chain in life, I meant on the road.

As the school run goes
- 4x4
- big cars
- little cars
- cyclists
- pedestrians.

crunchernumber Mon 26-Nov-12 09:41:21

It's a little like asking the anti-gun lobby to come up with a different argument than 'because they kill people'

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Mon 26-Nov-12 09:41:24

Well I've been driving a 4x4 since my early twenties and I find that can see little people perfectly well. I can concentrate and I can use my eyes.

Cruncher - read my earlier posts - I do need a big car.

hermioneweasley Mon 26-Nov-12 09:43:25

I understand the environmental arguments against big cars, but what I don't understand is that these same arguments are not used (certainly not with the same venom) against other things which use the earth's finite resources - big houses, holidays you have to fly to etc. if a MNetter posts a link to her house she's trying to sell, I have never heard her criticised for having a house that is strictly larger than necessary and therefore costs more to heat, light etc.

Also it would be better for all kids if parents who care about education sent their kids to struggling schools and raised the average standard up, but most parents don't. If they possibly have a choice, they tend to move to areas where the schools are already good, usually with associated house prices.

I just don't understand why it is cars as a symbol of selfishness (if that's how you see it) that evokes such fury.

TwoFacedCows Mon 26-Nov-12 09:43:29

iggly indeed I did. I also intimidated short cars by driving very close to them, did a few 789 piont turns in peoples drive ways, abandoned my car in front of peoples drive ways, I also run over a couple of cyclists. all in all a very typical day for a 4X4 owner! grin

Iggly Mon 26-Nov-12 09:45:06

I knew it grin

TwoFacedCows Mon 26-Nov-12 09:45:13

There are safety issues with 4X4s - you may be safer, but others aren't. Don't other people matter? - compared to my family and me, No I would much rather myself and my family live.

The car was NOT a 4x4, but actually a peugeot 306 that needs some maintenance, judging by the smog coming from the exhaust.

I wasn't othered y the type of car it was, just the fact that I saw twatty driver knock bin over as I rounded the corner back from school, but when a little too far away to do anything more than yell in annoyance. I live about 1 minutes walk from the school, so no need to drive, even in the rain.

The turning space is big, even the dustcart (which is outside as I type, so very glad I wasn't having to clean up spilled stuff) can turn easily.

Twat driver <bangs gavel>

TwoFacedCows Mon 26-Nov-12 09:46:21

iggly, you may drive a short car, but you are quite funny. unlike some of them grin

Iggly Mon 26-Nov-12 09:47:29
Iggly Mon 26-Nov-12 09:48:38

Why thank you Cows.

And you, despite driving a ridiculously big car make me chuckle too.

not changed my mind about the big cars though

TwoFacedCows Mon 26-Nov-12 09:50:06

grin

crunchernumber Mon 26-Nov-12 09:51:22

then gin that's fine. I have no problem with that.

I only get cross when people claim that the argument against them is 'one-dimensional'. It is a strong argument against them but if you have personal reasons that outweigh them, then that's great and you clearly drive accordingly.

There are lots of people who don't though, and that's where the 'anti-4x4 brigade' have a point.

hermioneweasley Mon 26-Nov-12 09:51:38

Ah, feeling the love here now people.

Netguru Mon 26-Nov-12 10:05:15

Fact?

My 4x4 (a proper one - 7 seat shogun) is necessary for lugging diving and caving gear (hobby and extra income) around Europe. It is huge but smaller than the Toyota hilux I used to use (which was more like a builders van)

It uses less diesel than my husband's normal family car does petrol.

It has reversing cameras which automatically engage.
It has all round sensors.

The high driving position and large mirrors mean seeing all around the car is easier than my small convertible I use for commuting.

My daughter goes to school 6 miles away. My son four miles away. On rural single carriageway roads which are flooded today. No bus available.

The judgy ones on MN always seem to judge based in their own narrow existence. Accept that despite your prejudices some people don't use 4x4s just to show off. That says far more about your own behaviour.

Anyway, I own a very expensive convertible to show off. The 4x4 is too muddy to be proud of ;)

Netguru Mon 26-Nov-12 10:06:27

Oh and OP, doesn't matter whether blocker was driving a Prius or a monster truck. YWNBU.

Offred Mon 26-Nov-12 10:09:32

Netguru - no the judgement is people who have unnecessarily huge cars in inappropriate situations.

TwoFacedCows Mon 26-Nov-12 10:14:19

like me netguru. i live in london shock and have a HUGE 4X4, I have no children, horses or caravans to pull. i have a HUGE 4X4 because i can! grin

Kethryveris Mon 26-Nov-12 10:16:38

but net, you have yours out of necessity.. not because it looks good.

Like most, i have no objection to people who have large SUVs and off-roaders (not going to say 4x4) when they need them and use them for what they were built to do.. the issue is when there is no necessity, and they also cant drive the fucking things.

I live in a very rural area so quite a few of the kids coming to my kids school have come from outlying villages and farms, its not unusual to see muddy landrovers, jeeps and so on pulling up outside the school.. but most of them park considerately!

There are a couple though who have them for status reasons, and i'm sorry, but they cant drive or park the bloody things.. one mom actually admitted she cant park it and even has to straddle two spaces in the shopping center carparks!

Ginandtonicandamassageplease Mon 26-Nov-12 10:17:45

You know what I do think is dangerous? Hybrid cars on electric mode as you can't hear them coming. That's got to be dangerous, right?

I've not come across a hybrid car yet, but am partly deaf, so worried that even with careful looking I may get caught out.

Netguru Mon 26-Nov-12 10:19:49

Ofred. I understand your point but you cannot know whether a car is unreasonable and if you only own one car it will be used inappropriately sometimes.

Other posters on here have stated that they are "status symbols - end of." which is the attitude I was referring to. To be honest if I didn't need the shogun I would get rid of it. But whilst I do need it, no one can know that but me.

Iggly Mon 26-Nov-12 10:21:43

Oh don't get me started on those electric cars! Silent but potentially deadly. Ridiculous.

AnitaManeater Mon 26-Nov-12 10:23:01

I have a 4x4 and I manage to park it legally grin It's no bigger than a volvo estate. No point having a normal car here out in the sticks. You need the extra traction a 4wd gives to be able to get out the mud or through the roads when it floods.

Who gives two hoots about what you drive as long as you park it properly and are considerate to other road users

Offred Mon 26-Nov-12 10:24:56

I don't think the judgement should worry people. I'm quite aware I'm the "crazy woman who bikes to school" that everyone laughs at every morning. Doesn't bother me cos I'm not uncomfortable with my choice for my family.

Offred Mon 26-Nov-12 10:27:04

And the people who want to show off are only having the car in the first place because they want people to judge them, just positively or jealously...

I think there is nothing wrong with the type of car someone has, but there is a perception that drivers of 4x4s, especially in certain areas, do not drive the cars safely and with consideration for others. If *iggly's link is real, then it's more than a perception.

The real issue is wanker drivers. If everyone drove properly, with due consideration for others, then threads like this would not exist. Sadly, this seems too much to hope for.

dawntigga Mon 26-Nov-12 10:28:14

I only have anecdotal evidence, but as a biker (motor not pedal) IME it's people who drive large cars who are more likely to try to kill me if I'm on 2 wheels. I think that the cars driven are and feel very safe and this, subconsciously, makes the drivers feel everyone else on the road is as safe as they are. As drivers we all make stupid mistakes from time to time but it's the large car drivers who, I feel, are more likely to cause and accident when I'm on 2 wheels.

PeopleNeedToBeMoreAwareRegardlessOfSizeOfCarTiggaxx

PessaryPam Mon 26-Nov-12 10:39:22

The next time I purchase a car i will have to ask on MN if it's OK I think. What's the consensus on Mazda MX5s? 1 child in the passenger seat and the other 2 in the boot?

ThePoppyAndTheIvy Mon 26-Nov-12 10:39:43

To be honest, I think people should be free to buy whatever car/vehicle they want to - so long as they can prove, before leaving the garage, that they know how to park the bloody thing!

I have a normal but largish family car and was extremely annoyed at my local huge Tesco on Saturday when I could not use ANY of the available spaces because some twat (many twats) had parked over the line, leaving the space unusable by anything larger than a Matiz angry. The offenders were everything from a Porsche Cayenne to a Ford Ka - it's not the size of the bloody car that causes inconsiderate parking, it's the person behind the wheel!

But going back to the OP for a minute grin. YANBU, not at all. Parking across a driveway is never on - especially not when you can see that someone is clearly about to use the car you are blocking in!

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Mon 26-Nov-12 10:48:44

twofaced gotta say it that you are just on a wind up aren't ya! wink

Janeatthebarre Mon 26-Nov-12 10:56:10

I live near a school and it always so often seems to be bloody 4x4s that are totally blocking the pavement or parked halfway across our drives.

OP YANBU to have reported that rude woman.

BarryShitpeas Mon 26-Nov-12 10:58:07

Let down her tyres if she does it again.

TwoFacedCows Mon 26-Nov-12 11:28:37

quite Everlong, although i do have a 4X4 and everything I have said is true. it is just TOO much fun to wind up some people! grin

ah! iggles! you truly are funny. if you didnt drive such a short car i would luff to be your friend! grin

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Mon 26-Nov-12 11:32:04

Ha!

Don't think I'm sort some how wink

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Mon 26-Nov-12 11:32:57

your sort

TwoFacedCows Mon 26-Nov-12 11:37:35

huh? my sort of what?

TwoFacedCows Mon 26-Nov-12 11:42:14

ohh, you thought i wanted you to be my friend...! No.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Mon 26-Nov-12 11:43:23

Oh I just couldn't see us hanging out together.
I don't go out of my way to wind folk up wink

Oh and I do have a 4x4 too smile

TwoFacedCows Mon 26-Nov-12 11:47:15

that's good everlong confused

i was actually talking to iggle, hence why i said 'ah! iggles! you truly are funny. if you didnt drive such a short car i would luff to be your friend!

so, i wouldnt actually want to 'hang out' with you either

ChristieF Mon 26-Nov-12 11:47:22

Ring the police Let them tow it away or give her a fine Get her registration number and ideally a photo for them Also consider speaking to the local council who could send in a traffic warden/paint white lines in front of your drive/double yellow the area

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin Mon 26-Nov-12 11:50:32

Cool.

sue52 Mon 26-Nov-12 11:54:08

Inconsiderate drivers tend to drive around in anything from a fiesta to a range rover. The point is park considerately and don't be a git. (I drive a rather grubby land rover defender and have never ever blocked a driveway).

AlienRefluxLooksLikeSnow Mon 26-Nov-12 11:57:32

No YWNBU think you know that though eh?

Dromedary Mon 26-Nov-12 12:00:22

Hermione Weasley - yes there are environmental issues with other things too. You don't need to go on foreign holidays, or to fly to them (train much better). You don't need to use vast amounts of electricity (see other post about the incredible number of weekly washes most people do). And you don't need to have lots of children (big contributor to carbon emissions if you live a western lifestyle).
And to the poster who says that their having a 4X4 should be balanced against their not going on foreign holidays. This isn't a game, there aren't any brownie points. Emissions are destroying the planet (or at least the planet as we know it). I fear for our children - don't you? And let's face it, if you drive a 4X4, if you're not going on foreign holidays it's not because of your concern for the environment.
So if you're not flying, that's great (and no I'm not perfect or anywhere near it, but I haven't flown in the last 10 years and chose a car based on its low emissions - it does the job fine).
But one of the very easiest and most obvious ways of reducing your carbon emissions is simply using a smaller car (if you've decided that you're going to use one at all). Almost nobody "needs" to drive an SUV. They didn't even exist until quite recently. So the decision to drive an SUV is a big V sign to the future of our children, including your own (and even more immediately to those in the most vulnerable countries in the developing world).
I really think that when our children are adults, and the impact of global warming is becoming frighteningly obvious to absolutely everyone, they will look back on their childhoods spent in their parents' SUVs and on flights to exotic holidays with anger and disgust.

OwlLady Mon 26-Nov-12 12:06:57

yanbu
report to school and pcso, that's absolutely fine and normal

parking in front of anyones driveway, whether on horseback or a 4x4 or whether parking to go to the shop/school/dr's etc is not a necessary thing to do under any circumstance. If the Mum was late she needs to leave earlier, it's as simple as (and I was late this morning blush so not judging lateness per se wink)

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Mon 26-Nov-12 12:33:40

I need an SUV, no question about it. You'd can't assume that because one family can manage with a small car or no car that all of them can. Without mine I couldn't leave my house. At all. Ever. I do not feel bad about having one at all, why should I?

I do sometimes secretly hanker after a little mini though grin

OTheHugeManatee Mon 26-Nov-12 12:43:00

China is now building a new coal-fired power station every week and they don't give a fuck about carbon emissions.

Whether or not Twofacedcows drives a Range Rooney or a Toyota Pious will not make the blindest bit of difference to climate change when set against industrialisation elsewhere in the world.

Janeatthebarre Mon 26-Nov-12 12:44:59

ohh, you thought i wanted you to be my friend...! No. Quote

This made me laugh.

PessaryPam Mon 26-Nov-12 12:54:52

Manatee, I thought we had an invisible shield around our island so we can have good cool virtuous low CO2 air and China can have hot CO2 and pollutant riddled air.

Actually I didn't and it's a good point well made.

Love the Toyota Pious. It must emit clouds of Smug when it's driven.

Offred Mon 26-Nov-12 12:57:14

It is a stupid point. Emissions make a massive difference to the health of people who breathe them in and most especially to vulnerable people like children and pedestrians and cyclists who have to breathe them more than people inside the cars with their filtered air...

PessaryPam Mon 26-Nov-12 13:08:24

So do 4x4s come fitted with COS and nitrous oxide scrubbers? I didn't know that Offred.

Offred Mon 26-Nov-12 13:11:52

It is a reason to consider whether you need a car at all, whether you drive short trips, whether you sit waiting outside school with your engine on and also what type of car you have. A low emissions car for it's class still has higher emissions than a low emissions car of a lower class. If you could use the lower class one but you want the higher class one you still create unnecessary emissions just get to feel good about the car being low emissions.

Proudnscary Mon 26-Nov-12 13:15:38

YABU

Proudnscary Mon 26-Nov-12 13:15:48

Not really

PessaryPam Mon 26-Nov-12 13:21:14

The highest emissions come from poor people driving old bangers with dodgy MOTs. Modern newer cars are very clean and efficient.

Maryz Mon 26-Nov-12 13:22:14

Good God shock

Only on Mumsnet grin

Offred Mon 26-Nov-12 13:28:12

Yes pessary but they don't have an opportunity to make a more responsible choice.

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme Mon 26-Nov-12 13:28:37

I did hear that before the Toyota Prius gets to us from Japan on a huge oilburning tanker that it actually goes to somewhere like Canada for it's parts on a huge oilburning tanker and then to Norway or somesuch for it's engine on a huge oilburning tanker and then gets shipped to Europe on a huge oilburning tanker.

Even if that's not strictly accurate, it still has to come from Japan doesn't it? Or are they made in Britain?

<confused>

<thick>

PessaryPam Mon 26-Nov-12 13:39:13

Ah so the deserving poor can emit as much as they like then? Please stop dressing up your prejudices in pseudo science Offred.

Offred Mon 26-Nov-12 13:44:26

I have no control or illusions that I have control over other people's emissions. I retain the right to judge people who don't do what they can or what is reasonable or considerate, even more so when they have means and choose to behave selfishly and inconsiderately. That's all.