To expect the NHS to pay for me to breast feed

(209 Posts)
pamplem0usse Fri 23-Nov-12 12:28:24

OK so not quite:
10 week old DS has a cows milk allergy. He's EBF so the only solution currently is for me to cut out all dairy from my diet. I'm already a pescatarian.
Dairy free alternatives seem to be really expensive.... AIBU to think I should be able to be prescribed some of these given (a) the amount of money I'm saving them on hypoallergenic formula and (b) since I'm likely to save them significant amounts of cash by helping prevent further allergies develop....

EuroShagmore Fri 23-Nov-12 12:36:08

I'm lactose intolerant and have been dairy free for years. I don't see how it is more expensive.

I tend to eat things that are naturally dairy free rather than finding dairy substitutes though. I do occasionally buy a carton of lactofree milk so I can have a hot choc in winter though, but that's a handfull of times per year.

CogitoErgoSometimes Fri 23-Nov-12 12:37:15

YABU. However, you're entitled to ask to be referred to a dietician on the NHS who could probably suggest cheaper ways of achieving the same thing than buying expensive dairy-free alternatives.

nannyl Fri 23-Nov-12 12:40:20

yes I think YABU

(says she who has never bought formula and donated loads of my milk to SCBU..... wouldnt have occured to me to want money for my milk, nor for the sterilising equipment and pumps etc that i bought (over £200 worth) to be a donar)

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Fri 23-Nov-12 12:40:23

Yabvu. You don't have to eat alternatives to avoid dairy. You can eat other stuff.

The NHS is not there to pay for yours or your child's food. You are not saving the NHS money hmm What a ridiculous thing to say. You are preventing our baby from being ill, not doing the taxpayer a favour!

RyleDup Fri 23-Nov-12 12:42:07

Agree with outraged. Words have failed me!

cowardlylionhere Fri 23-Nov-12 12:45:07

I'm guessing you're joking. It can be difficult at first, my 7mo ds has a cows milk protein problem too and I've cut it completely from my diet. It's far easier than I thought it would be. I'm wanting to stop bfing for various reasons now though and getting anyone to take the problem seriously and prescribe suitable formula is a struggle. He comes up in welts if I ever slip up, even if you dab milk on his skin sad

Gettheetoanunnery Fri 23-Nov-12 12:46:17

I think Yabu for the reasons stated by others.

MrsMicawber Fri 23-Nov-12 12:47:55

You know how you cut out meat? Now cut out milk.

Easy peasy. The world does not owe you anything.

Really?

Yabu!

Pancakeflipper Fri 23-Nov-12 12:52:06

Dairy-free foods don't have to be expensive, well it is if you buy the "free-from" stuff at the supermarket.

If you give a list of what is expensive I will try to find cheaper alternatives for you ( and as you have a 10 week old I will try to not give you lots of recipes as you are probably knackered and cannot be arsed to make your own cookies).

AdoraJingleBells Fri 23-Nov-12 12:58:19

YABU

When you have a baby you become responsible for the baby's welfare. There is lots of support available in the UK to help this happen, but the responsibility remains your's.

If you need to drop something from your diet for the baby's wellbeing so be it. Presumably this is a short term change rather than permanent?

I am bit puzzled why it is so much more expensive to be dairy free. I don't drink cows milk and basic soya milk is about 60p a litre in the supermarket. I do sometimes eat yogurt but I could live without or you can get soya yogurt. Again I'm a bit take it our leave it about cheese. Non dairy spreads are going to be about the same as dairy.

ChestnutsRoastingonaWitchesTit Fri 23-Nov-12 13:01:04

Haha.

You could always switch to bottle feeding and get his dairy free formula on prescription.

ICBINEG Fri 23-Nov-12 13:01:49

outraged how is preventing a baby from getting sick NOT going to save the tax payer money?

Surely every hospital visit costs??

SCOTCHandWRY Fri 23-Nov-12 13:03:26

You're an adult - actually, you don't NEED any form of dairy foods in your diet, past the age of about 5! Up your intake of leafy veg/salad, nuts and seeds and you will get all the calcium you need (it's just marketing bollocks that you need dairy in your diet, you don't).

After weaning my DS4 from BF at about 13 months, he just went onto Goats milk (full fat, available in all supermarkets these days), rather than buy expensive special formula (he has no reaction to it at all, very few people react to goats milk).

Principality Fri 23-Nov-12 13:04:59

I do sympathise with op.

I had the same with ds2.

To the others is not the obvious dairy products but the fact that dairy is in everything like biscuits, some breads, etc. You have to check everything you put in your mouth. Difficult to eat out or with friends etc.

ICBINEG Fri 23-Nov-12 13:05:45

I want paying for a) not smoking (saving a bundle there) and
b) losing weight

FlangelinaBallerina Fri 23-Nov-12 13:05:57

If the baby would otherwise be prescribed formula, then OP is absolutely and unequivocally saving the NHS money by rendering it unnecessary. This is not a matter of opinion. Still though, I think wanting dairy free alternatives prescribed is a bit much.

NeedlesCuties Fri 23-Nov-12 13:06:40

YABU.

Nice try, but I hardly think this is a priority case for the already cash-strapped NHS.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Fri 23-Nov-12 13:07:03

Preventing a baby from being ill will ultimately save the NHS money, but it's a parents responsibility to do what they can to prevent their child becoming ill.

There is something very simple and inexpensive that the OP could do to protect her own child's health, yet she has the cheek to think the NHS should pay for her to parent her own child. It's ridiculous.

I may as well say that I demand the NHS pays me not to do extreme sports. After all, I'd be saving them money by not putting myself at risk of injury. Or maybe they could pay for me to fly up to Scotland to see my family as there would be less risk of my being injured in a car accident, therefore I'm saving the taxpayer money. Or, perhaps, they could pay for someone to walk my child to school. I can't be bothered to parent properly myself, and it will save the NHS money if my small child doesn't get run over by a car. hmm

missymoomoomee Fri 23-Nov-12 13:07:41

You are saving them significant amounts of money, by feeding your own child?

OK....confused

I am also saving the NHS money by not smoking. Instead of smoking I eat mars bars, will the NHS pay for my chocolate?

I am saving the NHS money by not taking up skydiving as a hobby and therefore minimising the risk of breaking my leg, instead of that I choose to read, will they buy me a kindle and a new book every week.

SCOTCHandWRY Fri 23-Nov-12 13:07:53

re Soya formulas - those with a cows milk protein sensitivity have a fairly high chance of also reacting to soya products.

Lesbeadiva Fri 23-Nov-12 13:08:06

I had to stop drinking wine when breast feeding <prepares catch up wine bill to send to nhs>

BalloonSlayer Fri 23-Nov-12 13:09:41

Children can be prescribed gluten free food, as it is expensive.

Back in the day when soya formula used to be the alternative for a baby with a cows' milk allergy, that was available on prescription too.

Dairy-free food is expensive but it is not available on prescription. I agree it does not seem fair.

I used to feel pissed off that a child with a gluten intolerance could get expensive alternatives for free, food but my child with a life-threatening allergy couldn't.

But 'tis life! smile

Viviennemary Fri 23-Nov-12 13:09:42

YABU. The NHS does not pay for special diets as far as I know. YABVU.

OHforDUCKScake Fri 23-Nov-12 13:10:57

Yabvu.

I have a CMPA baby too.

How did you find out as early as 10 weeks?

Dairy free diet isnt expensive, you just dont go down the dairy aisle and buy oat/soya/coconut milk instead.

KatAndKit Fri 23-Nov-12 13:11:39

due to breastfeeding my cake requirements have increased. Could the NHS please give me a free prescription for Greggs?

OHforDUCKScake Fri 23-Nov-12 13:13:20

Principliaty its a pain in the arse, granted. But not more expensive.

CMPA is easy once you know what youre doing (food shop wise, eating out is always difficult boardering on impossible).

FlangelinaBallerina Fri 23-Nov-12 13:13:54

Outraged, if OP did not breastfeed then the NHS would pay for special formula. They're not doing, so she's saving them money. If she stops, the NHS will be paying for the feed. That is the only relevant information here. Nothing in your post makes any difference to these bare and indisputable facts, however much you think OP is taking the piss.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Fri 23-Nov-12 13:15:56

What, you mean you don't get free cake when breastfeeding? shock

And that stingy NHS won't even pay for you to top up your blood alcohol levels when you're finished breastfeeding?

These Tory cuts are going too far now. How will we manage!?

SCOTCHandWRY Fri 23-Nov-12 13:16:19

I used to feel pissed off that a child with a gluten intolerance could get expensive alternatives for free, food but my child with a life-threatening allergy couldn't.

You have a point regarding the unfairness of some things being free, and others not... but Gluten allergy can actually kill people, left untreated.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Fri 23-Nov-12 13:17:46

Flangelina, I know what you are saying is true, but that doesn't make it right. The NHS shouldn't be paying for any child's formula, no matter what it is. That is a parents responsibility.

The NHS should be paying for thinks that people actually need, not things that its a bonus to get for free.

WelshMaenad Fri 23-Nov-12 13:19:34

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. My friend has multiple allergies including wheat (not just gluten) and gets sone if her wheat substitute items in prescription.

DragonMamma Fri 23-Nov-12 13:20:57

I have a CMPA/LI toddler and I didn't find it that much more expensive to have dairy free bits for him when he was weaning. He is on Nutramigen though which costs the NHS £22ish for a half sized can - we used to go through 14 a month grin

YABU though, I didn't expect the NHS to pay for the dairy free foods for him to eat, why on earth would I? Or me for that matter, when I bf?

NoraGainesborough Fri 23-Nov-12 13:21:11

Yabu, completely. Also you don't HAVE to ebf.

You don't need dairy to bf. Also its your choice to be pescatatian.

NellyBluth Fri 23-Nov-12 13:21:26

God, yes, YABU.

There are plenty of women who can't or don't manage to bf for one reason or another. They don't get their formula on prescription, they just end up paying £50-odd a month on formula through no fault of their own.

Babies cost money, some more than others. You just have to get on with it.

OHforDUCKScake Fri 23-Nov-12 13:21:26

Outraged it costs a fortune, some parents genuinely would struggle to afford it.

DragonMamma Fri 23-Nov-12 13:21:41

I didn't mean to be grin but shock instead

NoraGainesborough Fri 23-Nov-12 13:22:08

Dairy free products are very expensive.

pamplem0usse Fri 23-Nov-12 13:22:40

OK so I was only semi-serious but feeling defensive now!!
1. I am saving the NHS money on (a) suitable formula and (b) the many medical appointments I would have if my DS developed more allergies, or this one didn't go away, which is more likely if he's FF.
2. I found out so early because my DS has spent 8-10 hours a day screaming and so I've had emergency paed appointments to try and figure out what was wrong.
3. It does cost me more because milk-based foods are already on the shopping list for my DH and DD. And before you suggest feeding them a dairy free diet too: my DD is two and so I don't think the absence of dairy would be particularly good for her.
4. Coeliac's do get free food on prescription. DS CMP allergy is causing damage to his gut. Given we are, in effect, linked, I do find it slightly unhelpful that while trying to promote breast feeding, the formula I would need is free - the alternative foods to make bfeeding bearable under these circumstances is not.

NoraGainesborough Fri 23-Nov-12 13:22:57

Oops should say not very expensive.

Absy Fri 23-Nov-12 13:23:14

Awesome! So by eating healthily, exercising, rarely drinking, not smoking, not participating in extreme or dangerous sports I am saving the NHS thousands of pounds. I would like them back please, to pay for a fancy vacation

littleladyindoors Fri 23-Nov-12 13:23:18

My husband is lactose intolerant, and I find its actually cheaper than when he wasnt. If my little one is lactose intolerant too Ill take the hit and stop dairy if I choose to breastfeed. Yeah it seems like a pain when you start out and think I can't eat anything- but you work out you can actually have most things. DH recently found onion rings he could eat, oh and doughnuts too that were dairy free and most of lidls christmas range - it was a good day.
When you first get that diagnosis though it is a scary one, and you do think thats the end of it no more food you love. But you can. You make a few changes, and I actually think we eat even better now than we did before- it was the kick up the bum we needed

I have a skin condition, and really the best thing for it is lots of sun- dya think the NHS would pay for my next couple of holidays too? Surely thats better than steroids

pamplem0usse Fri 23-Nov-12 13:24:44

And to Nelly I wouldn't be able to buy formula in a shop, that's the point, it's on prescription because it just isn't available to the general public.
And I'm not one of the breastfeeding-at-all-costs brigade, but I did bfeed my DD for 15 months despite a tongue tie that wasn't resolved quickly enough and (1) created supply issues as well as (2) leading to deep lacerations on my nipples that still haven't fully healed. There's choice and then there's choice.

NoraGainesborough Fri 23-Nov-12 13:25:03

So do you think I should get paid as I have lost weight and quit smoking.

dairy allergies are different to being a ceoliac.

FlangelinaBallerina Fri 23-Nov-12 13:25:27

Ok, but whether you think it's right makes no difference to the facts. We will be paying more if and when OP stops bf.

I'm not sure that stopping special formulas being prescribed would help much, either. It's ok if you have the money, but parents who didn't would end up feeding the babies normal formula and they'd get sick. Sick babies are expensive for the NHS, especially if they're hospitalised. You may say bf, but that's no solution if you don't find out baby is ill until after your milk has dried up.

Pancakeflipper Fri 23-Nov-12 13:25:42

Outraged - if we had to pay for the non-allergenic stuff my DS2 had to drink (his intolerance wasn't realised until he was 1 and I had stopped BF) well we couldn't have afforded the £100.00 a week plus it was costing.
Yes I felt huge guilt. But as soon as he was old enough and we could find an alternative for him ( soya no good, rice no good, almond out, coconut a no - hurrah for oat milk) which was bloody hard work - then we were off the formula.

I don't think it costs more to be dairy-free ( if you arent on a formula). It has many other issues but not cost.

DragonMamma Fri 23-Nov-12 13:25:47

Outraged, there is no way on earth I could afford £308 a month on formula of my DS because he's CMPA - paying £12 for a full sized sized tub of regular milk is expensive enough. Things like Neocate formula is £30+ for a 400g tub (why do they all come in half sizes?!) and that would have cost me £420 a month.

If they brought the price down of hypoallergenic milks down to regular milks, I would be more than happy to pay for it. As it is, it's ridiculously overpriced and so people can't afford it.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Fri 23-Nov-12 13:26:55

You would have saved the NHS money by not having a baby at all, but that's not really a viable alternative, is it?

If you were ff, then the formula should not be free. That's what the problem is here. It is unfair that you have to pay more to do the best for your baby because of a medical condition, but if they stopped providing free formula, then you wouldn't be paying more because of your choice to bf, and it would be fair.

This is the stuff that child benefit is for.

WelshMaenad Fri 23-Nov-12 13:27:21

IMO, it's comparable to the meal situation if you accompany your baby into hospital. As a bf mum, when I was in hospital with my son, they fed me for free, recognising that I was in fact his good source. If I had been ff, they would have provided his formula and I would have had to buy my food.

I hope the NHS never withdraws funding for special formulas. They are hugely expensive - when trialling formulas to help my mixed-fed refluxy dd, I paid £35 for ONE tin of Neocate formula. They are a medicinal product, they treat medical conditions, of course the NHS should pay.

littleladyindoors Fri 23-Nov-12 13:28:00

PS swedish glace is a fantastic dairy free alternative to ice cream and it is really yummy!! And the lactofree products are great too, and soya based yoghurts too. Oh and alpro custard apparently tastes like posh fresh stuff (according to my ILs who are not dairy free)
I dont recommend your DD go without dairy of course, and in our house I still eat dairy but it is a bit cheaper for me because I dont have to buy so much now hubby eats like a horse

Floralnomad Fri 23-Nov-12 13:28:08

Coeliacs can now actually get very little on prescription , although this is a bit of a postcode lottery situation , and the same applies for adults and children . For example in our area you cannot get the fresh bread and a fresh gluten free loaf is £2.90 , so stop moaning. YABVU!

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 13:30:59

Holy hell, OP, are you serious? I didn't expect paying when I had to go totally cow's milk protein, soy and nut free when my DS3 was 8wo and bf.

And I'm skint. I already had one DC on a gluten free diet, and I don't get anything for him on prescription either.

I bf DS3 till he was 12mo, and then yes, he is prescribed 6 x 400g tins of Nutramigen 2 each month (I have to pay for the other 4, at a cost of over £15 a tin).

Still doesn't occur to me to moan that I saved the NHS money - I couldn't give a crap about that, I bf him because it was the safest EASIEST thing to do.

I had no choice but to stop bf at 12mo, as I had to go back onto meds that are incompatible with bf.

You have NO idea how much easier it is to follow a dairy free diet as an adult bf than as a toddler.

I now have to have an almost dairy free HOUSE, and I can't even take my DS3 to toddler groups as he is anaphylactic to even secondary contact with CMP.

So stop moaning, enjoy your baby, and stop thinking about £££ signs and tell yourself that you are doing the best thing for your BABY.

DragonMamma Fri 23-Nov-12 13:33:40

CouthyMow why do you have to pay for the other 4 cans? My DS is 18 months and we get 12 cans a month (it lasts a bit longer now thankfully) and don't have pay anything at all?

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 13:35:41

Not all GP surgeries will pay for as much as the DIETICIAN says they should have, when it comes to hypoallergenic formula.

It comes directly out of the GP's budget, and they WILL try to give you the barest minimum they can get away with in some areas.

And, as an aside, the hypoallergenic formulas taste and smell rank. If I was a baby, it would be a no brainer for me - bm that tastes sweet, or Nutramigen that tastes and smells like week old sweaty socks...

OHforDUCKScake Fri 23-Nov-12 13:37:20

I agree Couthy CMPA seems so simple now.

I have to avoid milk, eggs, nuts, beef, chicken, peas, oh theres bloody loads of them. Its a royal PITA.

I also bottled out of taking my son to a play group today because of food there.

And we go to a music group which has no food but he still reacts because the instruments he picks up have milky dribbles on.

I realise this isnt a competition OP but please realise things could be so much worse. This time last year my world caved in at the enormity of my baby being anaphylactic to milk. Thank God I couldnt see the future as I would have ended up deeply depressed at the prospect.

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 13:38:15

Different areas! Postcode lottery in action.

Dietician having kittens at GP because my DS3 has other severe allergies too, and needs more Nutramigen than most 21mo's, to ensure he is getting all the vitamins and minerals that he needs.

He's still on 30oz a day.

It's taking a while for the GP to take the dietician's advice...

FlangelinaBallerina Fri 23-Nov-12 13:39:18

Absy, your analogy attempt is a failure. This is because the things you list won't automatically cost the NHS money. It is quite possible that a person could skydive every day then have a bottle of wine and 20 cigarettes when they land, and still suffer no health effects whatsoever. There is a correlation between engaging in these behaviours and costing the NHS money, but it is not inevitable or automatic. Whereas if OP stops bf, the automatic consequence will be the NHS paying for hypoallergenic formula, or for treatment when DS gets ill because of unsuitable formula. It is inevitable. A totally different situation to the one you describe.

I get that people think OP is taking the piss, but can we all try really hard not to be fucking stupid please?

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 13:40:25

I AM a bit depressed at the prospect - even the Special Needs Sensory group has done a risk assessment and has decided that it is too risky for him to attend. sad

naughtymummy Fri 23-Nov-12 13:41:04

The reason the hypoallergenic milks are so eexpensive is because they require many more steps in manufacturing (the milk proteins must be broken down into their constituent parts) and they are manufactured in much smaller quantities. No idea why they don't come in decent size tins though.

OP do you get healthy living vouchers, theyare ddesigned for this sort of thing ?

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 13:42:00

Flangelina - I do think the OP is taking the piss, tbh.

Would she rather they have her money to bf her baby, but didn't have the money to treat him if he has an allergic reaction?

DragonMamma Fri 23-Nov-12 13:42:22

couthymow that's shit. I didn't realise it came out of the GP's budgets, they just throw it at us but then I wouldn't stockpile it and just re-order when we need more. The consultant paed said he needs it until he is 2.

It smells like arse though. I would never drink it.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Fri 23-Nov-12 13:42:55

Finally! Something I agree with Couthy on!

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 13:43:19

You can't get hypoallergenic formula or soy milk replacements on Healthy Living tokens btw. I use mine on extra leafy green veg, to make up calcium levels!

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 13:44:02

grin at Outraged!

SCOTCHandWRY Fri 23-Nov-12 13:44:31

And, as an aside, the hypoallergenic formulas taste and smell rank. If I was a baby, it would be a no brainer for me - bm that tastes sweet, or Nutramigen that tastes and smells like week old sweaty socks...

As I said in my previous post, why not try Goat milk for your CMP allergic dc?
It is more expensive than cows milk but it's also a natural product - my DS took to it straight away.

Some PP are confusing lactose and CMP problems - not the same thing! Lactofree (no milk sugar in it) is no good if the problem is CMP (one of the proteins in the milk).

Pancakeflipper Fri 23-Nov-12 13:44:54

It is so much easier to be an adult dealing with allergies/ intolerances.

DS2 is off to a toddler birthday party tomorrow and I get to be helicopter parent at food time. My arse is in so many birthday photos of the toddlers for our village as I bend over DS2's plate and be ever watchful.

Couthy - really sorry that the sensory group is not thinking they can accommodate your son. Big blow that.

Willabywallaby Fri 23-Nov-12 13:45:18

YABU

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 13:46:44

You can't even get lactose free milk on the Healthy Living vouchers, as I found out today. (DS2 is lactose intolerant, nothing like DS3's allergy, but a PITA nonetheless). I am skint, so tried to get some with my vouchers only to find you can't! I'd never tried before, had always used them for fruit and veg.

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 13:47:45

Goats milk protein is very similar to CMP. Some DC's can tolerate it - I have been advised not to, as DS3's allergy is so severe.

naughtymummy Fri 23-Nov-12 13:48:51

Could the OP not use her healthy living tokens for her dairy free calcium sources. TBH I had no idea you could buy neocate over the counter. I agree they smell and taste rank !

nickelbabeuntiladvent Fri 23-Nov-12 13:49:40

this is my thread from a few weeks ago
maybe there are some good things on there you can look at?

DD's much older and on solids, but the things that you can eat will be useful (especially chocolate)

also, Blackfriars Flapjack is suitable for vegans wink

bondigidum Fri 23-Nov-12 13:49:53

I'm a vegan and can definitely say it is not more expensive.. cheaper if anything. No idea where you are shopping.

Yabu to expect that of the NHS its barely their fault. You don't get paid to buy formula if you fail at bfing do you? And one would argue formula is more expensive than the apparent extra money dairy free stuff costs (although to me its cheaper).

FlangelinaBallerina Fri 23-Nov-12 13:51:19

Couthy, I agree with your first sentence but am not sure what your second means.

naughtymummy Fri 23-Nov-12 13:51:42

Also so sorry mouthy what a nightmare. I heard of one child who couldn't' walk past Starbucks. I don't know if that makes you feel better or worse !

nickelbabeuntiladvent Fri 23-Nov-12 13:56:55

all of you who are living with avoiding dairy, could you please give the OP some ideas on what to eat/not eat that will help?

the only suggestion i've seen is swedish glace (which is yummy) and everyone else has just said "i had to give up blah blah" without helping her see what she can replace the nutrients with.

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 13:57:03

It IS readily available in a shop - a pharmacy. Every pharmacy stocks hypoallergenic milk behind the counter. It's just effing expensive.

I can sort of understand the sentiment, it grates on me that I spend £60 a month out of a very limited income on feeding my DS3, when cows milk would be about £10 a month for him, but if I didn't, he'd be dead.

I would far rather there was an allergist for me to call each time he reacts to something new - and bf for 12 months didn't help that, and I was free from by the time he was 8wo, he was so allergic - than they forked out on prescribing every tin of Nutramigen, all dairy replacements (not bloody many when you can't have soy either btw), but didn't have an allergist...

OHforDUCKScake Fri 23-Nov-12 13:58:06

Goats milk is very likely to be a bad idea to tbh.

Couthy I so wish there were more CMPA closer by, we could organise our own play group.
As it is, I live next door to Brighton. Being a city I always figured there must be a lot of mums with babies who are CMPA. But how do you track them down and set up a play group?! Im busting to do it, but no idea how.

I see your point/s pampel however I think you are looking at this the wrong way.

Going dairy free doesn't mean you have to replace milk/cheese/yoghurt with other grain/soya milks/cheese/yoghurt. Which I guess is where you are arguing where the expense lies. It's like there is a difference in the MINDS of vegetarians who eat manufactured meat substitute foods, and vegetarians who simply have a meat free diet (and don't feel the need to look for meat substitutes).

There are lots of cultures who don't eat much if any dairy products and neither are they drinking soya/rice/oat milks on a regular basis. Look to Chinese and other SE Asian cultures for influence. I don't think I've ever had a dairy food in Thailand (maybe an ice cream?). Mexican food, Indian food (leaving aside paneer & yoghurt of course there is still lots left esp vegetarian foods).

I think YABU to expect any compensation for doing the best you can to feed your baby in a healthy way. It's what parents do.

expatinscotland Fri 23-Nov-12 14:04:19

YABU. I'm lactose intolerant and also don't see how it's more expensive. Everyone else can drink milk and eat cheese. I even have to make my portion of lasagne or pasta bake with no cheese.

Well, it's my responsibility to try to do my best not to get sick, the NHS isn't there to pay for it.

'It's just not fair.' No shit! I can't even begin to express how unfair life is, not that it makes a blind bit of difference.

nickelbabeuntiladvent Fri 23-Nov-12 14:05:17

DUCK advertise on facebook, on MN local, at your local churches and nurseries.

you could start by meeting in a cafe, and then move to community centre when you get bigger.
in fact, church halls are usually very cheap to hire out if you started as a "church group" rather than just a group hiring the hall smile

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 14:07:25

Suggestions - do most meals dairy free. Lots and lots of leafy green veg. More protein. Tomato based sauces for pasta. Avoid shop bought pesto!!!

No cheese sauces/milk sauces.

Do dinners you can adjust. Vitalite is a decent alternative for sandwiches.

BLOCK Stork can be used in baking and always produces excellent results - also good for mashing potatoes with. Must be the BLOCK Stork in the gold wrapper.

Tesco and Jus-Rol ready made pastry (obviously not the all butter ones, the basic ones) are dairy free. Except Tesco SWEET shortcrust. Their normal shortcrust is fine.

We have a lot of pies and pasties. Watch for dairy in gravy granules and stock cubes.

Casserole mixes in packets are all out - but Homepride sausage casserole JAR is dairy free.

Tagines are good, as you have ras-el-hanout to flavour the veg.

Oatly milk is ok on cereal, but I find Karo coconut milk has an odd 'grainy' texture.

Oatly cream, when whipped with an electric beater, makes a good substitute for dairy based cream.

You can make a lovely curry with a tin of tomatoes, vegetables, tikka curry powder and a drizzle of Oatly cream.

Is that enough suggestions?

OHforDUCKScake Fri 23-Nov-12 14:08:20

We'd never be able to meet in a cafe, or anywhere wlse that had food. Ive considered trying in my house to start, but its very small. After two mums and 3 babies together its too much, but 3 isnt enough for a room hire. That said, Im loving your ideas, perhaps I could get an email group going first to see...

Do some damn research on coeliacs, it's isn't technically an allergy, it is an auto immune disease. Eating gluten causes the body to attack itself, specifically the lining of the small intestine. Not having a gluten free diet actually means you don't absorb any nutrients. You try watching someone basically starving despite eating and then begrudge them their prescription food.

Another point is, look up how much they actually get. My dad only gets bread. He pays £7.65 for not a hell of a lot of bread. How much do you pay for bread?

It is far far easier to avoid milk than it is to avoid gluten, and the substitute milk products do not have the same high price point of gluten free products.

nickelbabeuntiladvent Fri 23-Nov-12 14:15:41

couthy, i'm sure she'll be grateful for those smile

<<nicks a few of the ideas>>

nickelbabeuntiladvent Fri 23-Nov-12 14:16:17

Duck blush d'oh, of course not

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 14:18:07

Murder. It is NOT easier to avoid milk than gluten. That's bullshit.

I have had to have a GF house for 5 years, since DS1 was dxd coeliac. That's a piece of PISS compared to dairy free.

I'm not arguing that coeliac is life-threatening, it'd be a big hard to when you have had to see your then 5yo DS with rectal bleeding, and growing 5 inches in the first year of being GF.

However, it is far far FAR easier to go GF than it is CMP free.

Teafairy Fri 23-Nov-12 14:18:55

My DD2(7 months) is lactose intolerant and BF so we are both currently dairy free. I spoke to my HV about it and he referred me to see a dietician, which was helpful. I have DD1(2.5) and DH at home too, and to be honest after the first week or two of just getting my head round what had 'hidden' dairy in it, it really isn't too bad. Have a look online at supermarket websites, they usually have a list of all their products that are dairy free. We are eating slightly differently but not too much, sometimes they have one version of a meal and I have a slightly different version (because yes, some of the dairy alternatives are a bit more expensive). The dietician said that as long as you have 3 portions of calcium rich food a day then that is ok-so for example the soya milk that is fortified, or soya yoghurt and a multivitamin. My Mum got me a vegan cookbook for my birthday because she struggled to find a just a dairy free one (she is yet to fully grasp the miracle of the internet) and that has some nice recipes in, and you can always add meat/eggs/fish etc into a dish. I use soya yoghurt and soya marg and occasionally the milk, that seems enough alternatives to be able to have our normal diet. I did try some dairy free cheese-it was grim smile. If you are struggling, ask your gp or hv for help, it is there. And it's not all bad, i have found some new recipes which will stay in use, if/when DD grows out of the intolerance, chocolate and courgette cake, is a yummy highlight!!

nickelbabeuntiladvent Fri 23-Nov-12 14:19:49

i wodnmer if you have any good independent children's shops around that might be willing to let you use some of their space?
I know I have a couple of rooms upstairs that I let some groups use (those that charge fees like classes pay for the room, but others can normally get it free), so there might be some like-minded businesses in Bristol that would help.
i do it for word-of-mouth and the occasional sale smile

OHforDUCKScake Fri 23-Nov-12 14:19:56

Nickle another problem is the toys. They would have to be kept somewhere and washed regularly. Where would one keep a shit load of play group toys?

It seems like such a good idea. I just dont know if I can pull it off...

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 14:20:44

I now run a mostly Gluten, CMP, Tree nut, peanut/legume, soy free house. It can be done with a bit of imagination and lateral thinking!

OHforDUCKScake Fri 23-Nov-12 14:21:21

Yes, thats a very good idea. I think I need to really think this through, perhaps ask someone whos already set up a group.

Thank you.

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 14:21:57

Try cocoa and beetroot cake - that's bloody delish!

blueshoes Fri 23-Nov-12 14:22:48

OP will save the NHS more money by not having children

nickelbabeuntiladvent Fri 23-Nov-12 14:23:10

oh, when I was at uni, I used to get some vegan cheese from Kwik-save! it was brill! it was like red leicester, and it was fine on sandwiches, but it turned to bubbly plastic when you tried it on toast grin

careergirl Fri 23-Nov-12 14:24:44

I have high cholesterol and have to be careful about my food choices. I also take so called cholesterol busting products like Benecol etc which aren't exactly cheap. I have to pay for these myself I wouldn't expect the NHS to pay to be honest.

nickelbabeuntiladvent Fri 23-Nov-12 14:25:38

you'd need to buy ones (or get donations) that could be dishwashed or washing machined, i suppose.
(you'll know more about this than me!)

it's a good idea, but it would need a lot of organising at the beginning. once you've got a regular band, you can work out where to store the toys and whose turn it is to take them home to wash.

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 14:26:10

Meatballs made with pork mince and chopped sage are lovely in a tomato and herb sauce. Bind them with an egg, or if on an egg free diet, either normal breadcrumbs or GF breadcrumbs.

Warburton's GF bread is also dairy and soy free, but DOES cost an arm and a leg - £2.48 a half loaf, with half sized slices too. We get through £17 of this bread alone in a week, because DS1 is nearly 11yo, and has to have 4 slices just to make the equivalent of one sandwich.

I'm saving for a bread maker!

Teafairy Fri 23-Nov-12 14:26:34

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz

Sounds good, can I have the recipe? Any excuse to eat cake is always welcome and a new recipe certainly counts!! smile

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 14:27:17

Actually, for the OP - that's another added benefit for YOU. By going dairy free, you will actually benefit from lower cholesterol levels!

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Fri 23-Nov-12 14:27:39

I am right now going to send NHS an invoice for the money I have saved them by not smoking!

hmm

OP, do you not realize that the NHS is not a health insurance, nor is the NHS responsible for your health: YOU ARE. You are responsible for the health of yourself, and your baby. You dont get money back from them by trying to stay healthy or trying to prevent further problems developing. It is YOUR life and YOUR responsibility. Your gain if you stay healthy. They are there to help IF a problem develops, not WHEN!

You have a very skewed and entitled way of thinking.
Yabu.

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 14:28:22

I'll fish it out later, I've got to go and get the older DS's from school. And persuade DS3 into clothing first. Hopefully the fact that he is asleep will make that slightly easier...

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 14:29:51

Toys - to wash them, fill a bathtub with water and Milton sterilising fluid. Leave for 30 minutes. Quick scrub and all done.

Teafairy Fri 23-Nov-12 14:31:18

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz should probably clarify that it's the cocoa and beetroot recipe i'm after! smile

fallingsun Fri 23-Nov-12 14:52:25

Yabvvu. My dd was lactose intolerant and I'm vegetarian too, it never occurred to me to charge the NHS for breastfeeding! So a cancer patient misses out on vital treatment because you want to be paid?!

Soya milk is no more expensive than cows milk, look in the ambient aisle rather than the fridge. Eat puddings rather than chocolate treats etc. Cutting out dairy is a pain but worth it for your dc to get the benefits of bf surely?

SCOTCHandWRY Fri 23-Nov-12 14:56:35

Goats milk is very likely to be a bad idea to tbh.

Why Duck? Unless the child is also allergic to goat milk, there isn't a problem - but you need to try it to find out - DH is a Dr and recommended we try DS4 first on Goat milk, as the special formulas are very poorly tolerated by some of his patients (they taste and smell awful), especially if they are older babies when they first get the formula.

Our DS is fine with Goat milk, but now he's a little older (2) we have tried him on some dairy free things which have soya in - and he reacts worse to that than Cows milk (I understand some of the proteins in soya are very similar).

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Fri 23-Nov-12 15:13:24

There is no lactose in Goats milk, so goats cheese is a great option.

My son has no lactose intolerance, but he reacts terribly to soy products (I know because my aunt is lactose and GF free, and everytime I have baked cakes with soy cream, my son is unwell for a week) which apparently have more allergens than cows milk?

Acekicker Fri 23-Nov-12 15:16:25

Gosh OP, you've taken a bit of a pasting...I think it might have helped if you hadn't got defensive but I'll cut you some slack as kids with allergies is a nightmare area and I suspect with a 10 week old and a bunch of hospital visits already under your belt with them you're possibly on a bit of an uneven keel...

There is some really good advice in the thread, if you can sift that out you should find it is a lot cheaper than you think. Stop trying to substitute dairy and think of different things to eat - the best tips at the general level are think either mediterranean (tomato based sauces etc) or chinese/asian (coconut milk for curries, very very few dairy products in Chinese/Japanese type dishes). Also dairy free stuff can come at the cheap end of supermarket stuff where proper butter etc would be more expensive - best example off the top of my head would be bourbon creams which I think are dairy free (disclaimer it's a few years since I was dairy free).

If you go for the 'free-from' range then it will be more pricey - it's a captive market unfortunately. Ask your local supermarket (Tesco, Sainsbury's etc) to send you their dairy free product list, you'll be surprised how much there is you can eat. Also have you asked about seeing a dietician, if you are struggling then (without wishing to be ironic) you might benefit from the advice they could give you. You do need to keep calcium levels up - things like walnuts, spinach, calcium enriched soya milk etc are good for that and white bread has more calcium than brown I think.

SCOTCHandWRY Fri 23-Nov-12 15:21:57

It's the Protein, not the milk sugar (lactose) which is the issue for the OP's child, but yes, soya is a very common allergy.

RabbitsMakeGOLDBaubles Fri 23-Nov-12 15:47:43

It is very hard to go dairy free, I will have to admit, they get CMP into all sorts of things! Anything processed is a nightmare, when I was trying to do a complete dump of dairy I found it was in practically everything I used. She's better now, no longer allergic, but I don't envy anyone the difficulty of raising children with these sorts of allergies.

It's common to look at the negatives of the situation first OP, when you stop reeling I reckon you'll see the fact that you are able to effectively filter your child's food by changing what you eat, as a bit of a Godsend, because it gets harder once you wean and don't always have sole control of what goes in his mouth.

And I do get the CRAP I didn't ask for this, how on earth can I afford to do this reaction, but there'll be other solutions out there than simply overloading the NHS prescription peeps. Once your DS is three months old, if the condition is seriously impacting on your ability to care normally for the child, you might consider DLA, which can absorb some of the difficulties of having an allergic child brings. It's a long hard slog sometimes, being controversial and debating is all well and good, but first off I'd focus on getting some support into place and Mumsnet is a good place for it, if you go about it the right way.

BalloonSlayer Fri 23-Nov-12 16:13:58

shock and confused at all the people saying that dairy free is no more expensive than dairy.

Unless your dairy purchases are from Duchy Originals or some other posh supplier then dairy free is significantly more expensive.

Put more simply - if you are on a budget and need to buy cheaper foods, this is significantly more difficult on a dairy-free diet.

Someone upthread mentioned Swedish Glace dairy-free "ice cream." I agree, it is delicious and the only decent dairy free "ice cream" you can buy.

The plain vanilla one is £3.31 for 750 ml

Tesco sell plain vanilla ice cream at 70p for 2 LITRES!

Yes of course you can find a vanilla ice cream for £3.31 for 750g. But most people with young families don't spend anything like that much. Most people with young families are trying to stretch their budgets, buying 10p yogurts etc - which you just cannot do on a dairy free diet.

KatAndKit Fri 23-Nov-12 16:32:13

I think the people that are saying dairy free is no more expensive mean that it can be cheap if you don't try to buy dairy substitutes such as the ice cream you mentioned. Simply stop eating yoghurt, ice cream, cheese and so on. Ok I agree that is a massive pain in the arse if you like those things. But there is no actual need for a human being past weaning age to eat any milk products - it is just something that many people enjoy. therefore there is no need either to eat substitute yoghurts. Eat something different instead.

pamplem0usse Fri 23-Nov-12 16:41:18

Thanks for all the useful advice about things I can eat.... I think I was in part a bit shell-shocked. I've been surviving on hummus for two days!!
For the record: I don't expect the NHS to pay for my dairy-free products, but I am incredibly frustrated by the diminishing number of economic things that I can eat, and the need to create two lots of meals for my family.
As I mentioned earlier, my lovely little chap has been spending 8-10 hours a day screaming, and sleeps very little, which is not easy with a toddler to care for too. I am, of course, overjoyed to get to the bottom of the problem after the best part of two months spent at the Doctors (I've had thrush and mastitis to deal with to boot, and DS also has a tongue tie), however it's difficult to see the wood for the trees when you're this tired. And when you're shattered and having nice things to eat has been the tiny thing that gives you pleasure when dealing with the 10+ people a day who ask you if your child is OK ('not really') or needs feeding ('not really') because he's screaming, it's a bit of a B%^*(& to have that taken away!

BalloonSlayer
The Swedish Glace vanilla is £2.20 in Sainsbo's but I get your point.

Pamplemousse
It would probably be worth looking for some vegan recipies as they are guaranteed to be dairy free.

Just in case you ever need it - you can get dairy free chocolate as well
www.alotofchocolate.co.uk/menu/dairy-free-chocolates/all-dairy-free-chocolates

FlangelinaBallerina Fri 23-Nov-12 16:51:09

NotQuint evidently decided to ignore the request not to be fucking stupid. Hope you get some more sleep soon OP!

SackGirl Fri 23-Nov-12 16:55:55

I agree with some posts that you could just try and cut out most dairy and just have the odd lactofree thing, but YANBU to ask for some sort of advice/help - Alot of people get their Infacol free/ colief... and as you said special freefrom formula. Breast is best, so really they should be doing everything to encourage/help you

BalloonSlayer Fri 23-Nov-12 16:59:35

Chazs grin Computer crashed when I tried to look it up on Tesco's web site so I just googled it and got that price off the 1st website that came up!

While I am on me soap box Waitrose seem to be bringing in the Moo Free stuff which seems horrendously expensive

am not sure going dairy free would work, or at least it didn't for me, and have been told by doctors and a b/fing councillor that it's a myth...

I had to stop b/fing DS because he was CMP allergic, and he went onto Neocate.

Anyway Booja Booja chocolate is great. Dairy and soya free but eye waveringly expensive...

12ylnon Fri 23-Nov-12 17:32:13

Well YABU. It's a real pain, i know. Almond milk or rice milk is not that expensive and yummier than soy (blleugh). My solution was to just eat less milk and cheese, and get my calcium, protein etc from other sources.

nannyl Fri 23-Nov-12 18:00:45

pamplemousee

just wanted to say well done for doing what you are doing

I too would not like to go dairy free, but would if my baby needed me too...... but plenty of people may choose to go down the dairy free formula route too.

yes with a baby and toddler i would need a cup of tea (with cow milk) and a slice of cake etc etc. (can easily make cakes with pure or vitalite or stork etc which although not quite as nice as butter, still make yummy enough cakes!)

Stylelostinlabour Fri 23-Nov-12 18:14:20

YABU - See this is the problem people don't understand what the NHS is actually for - its for medical care at the point of need. Think bleeding to death, heart attack RTA... You get idea...

Feeding ones child is a basic requirement of a parent be that a special diet due to health reasons such as allegies religious reasons or because you decide a specific diet

melliebobs Fri 23-Nov-12 18:22:38

pamplem0ouse SMA WySoy (which my dd is being moved onto at almost 9 months after being bf) is available at Tesco. She's getting it in prescription but if you want to save the NHS soooooo much money why not get it from there?!

babybarrister Fri 23-Nov-12 18:41:03

Please come onto the allergy boards - you are now a member of the group no-one wants to be a member of sadlywink
Hypoallergenic formula are available over the counter but v v expensive - for all those having problems with the prescriptions please contact the anaphylaxis campaign as they are there to campaign on your behalf and are v good at contacting PCT s etc

I do strongly disagree with anyone suggesting on here either goats milk or soya milk as dairy alternatives without first having been tested first. The protein molecules in both are very similar to cows milk protein so the likelihood is that anyone with cmp will also be allergic to goat milk and soya - my DS certainly was and we wasted a lot of time and worsened his health trying these out when they were very, very unlikely to be a success. It is bad advice and not advice which specialist allergy doctors are giving out I can promise

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Fri 23-Nov-12 18:45:37

Going free from worked for my DS3. I just had to be religious about it and read the label of every damn thing that passed my lips and crossed my threshold!

Even bloody crisps have milk in! I have to avoid casein and whey too, as well as lactose and cow's milk protein.

Soy milk is not advised as a milk substitute as a main drink any more, and rice milk is not to be used for under 5's.

Oatly is a good substitute. Or Hemp milk.

Almond milk needs careful thought - I discovered my DS3's nut allergy when the GP advised me giving him almond milk on his cereal. He went into anaphylaxis.

trixymalixy Fri 23-Nov-12 19:14:23

YABU, and I say that as the parent of two allergic children who had to cut out dairy from my diet when breast feeding.

I don't find the dairy free alternatives that much dearer tbh.

trixymalixy Fri 23-Nov-12 19:24:36

But can I extend my sympathies as it is hard to get used to to begin with.

I also found out that DS had allergies when he was around 12 weeks old and up until then it had been hellish as he was so unsettled and would only feed for 10 mins then scream and then need to be fed again after an hour.

The allergy board is very friendly and lots of good advice to be had.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Fri 23-Nov-12 19:29:04

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

OHforDUCKScake Fri 23-Nov-12 19:46:39

Balloonslayer I disagree, when we are broke and have to raid the freezer theres always fish fingers chips and beans, sausages, pork chops, mash, gravy.
Basically, dont buy expensive ice cream.

FlangelinaBallerina Fri 23-Nov-12 19:51:53

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OHforDUCKScake Fri 23-Nov-12 19:53:18

Scotch a CMPA child is 75% likely to be allergic to goats milk. So when you quoted me saying Goats milk is probably a bad idea and asked why? That is why.

Is your DH a GP? Any allergy specialist we have seen have said to steer clear of goats milk altogether because of the likelyhood of allergy to it.

Perhaps the likelyhood grows depending on the severity of the childs allergy. Perhaps your child wasnt very allergic so your husband was willing to take the risk, but my son is severely allergic and is so to goats milk.
If your son is anaphylactic to cows milk too then Im very suprised hes ok with goats milk, but thats very lucky. One of the 25%.

mamij Fri 23-Nov-12 19:55:43

Both my DDs have cows milk intolerance and I cut it out of my diet completely for 15 months (DD1) and still not having any dairy with DD2 (13 months).

I take vitamin supplements (by choice) and use oat creams, soya, or coconut products instead.

OHforDUCKScake Fri 23-Nov-12 19:55:45

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TenaciousOne Fri 23-Nov-12 20:03:30

YABU. We have the same issue here. Dairy alternatives aren't that expensive so long as you aren't looking for cheese alternatives. DH and I have both gone dairy free as DS came out in hives when DH gave him a kiss after having some milk.

oldraver Fri 23-Nov-12 20:06:01

I did it for three years (dairy free as my DS is). The dietician told me I would have to give up breastfeeding hmm

It does cost a little more but with trial you will find an altenative that suits. If you can get Soya Soleil (made by Alpro) but much cheaper. Waitrose and Co-Op used to do it. There are also a few own brands that are ok price wise. I would look for the ones that are sweetened and have added calcium.

It is a little annoying you cant use Healthy Eating vouchers against soya milk

OTheHugeManatee Fri 23-Nov-12 20:06:29

Hey, maybe I could get the NHS to pay for my running shoes? After all, by staying fit and active I'm saving them money.

hmm

Fuck me, yes of course they can afford to feed you, especially if they cut a few cancer drugs off of the NICE list of approved drugs.

Your sense of entitlement is astounding!

FlangelinaBallerina Fri 23-Nov-12 20:10:04

Shit analogy that didn't work, Duck.

oldraver Fri 23-Nov-12 20:23:21

Also your 2 year old doesn't need Dairy and wont come to any harm without it. What she needs is Calcium that is available in many sources ...its just milk is the most readily available and cheap source, hence all the Government bumpf people like my Mum (post war baby, who grew up in the 50's and 60's) remember. The 'pint of milk a day' was rammed home for many many years and its stuck in peoples heads.

My Dairy .. full cream/butter mad oh actually likes Swedish Glace Ice cream. The Alpro cream in the square box (longlife ) is really nice, the fresh one found in the chiller is not so nice. Oatley I found ok. Good old fashioned Vitalite is pretty good for a spread (and a bit cheaper)

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Fri 23-Nov-12 21:04:08

Flangelina, did you deliberately intend to be verbally abusive?

oohlaalaa Fri 23-Nov-12 21:07:55

Yabu

tetleymel Fri 23-Nov-12 21:18:01

YAB SO VERY VERY U!

I'm a vegan, as is all of my family including DCs. We live on a fairly tight budget and are very healthy and have a great variety of food.

I'd like the NHS to pay me because:
* I don't smoke
* I'm not obese
* I try to avoid being involved in major accidents
* I brush my teeth properly etc, etc, etc, etc.

What a ridiculously stupid OP!

FlangelinaBallerina Fri 23-Nov-12 21:18:23

Indeed I did Quint. The old MN favourite 'did you mean to be so rude' or variants thereof only works when you're dealing with someone who would be bothered by what you're accusing them of. I could point out that you're not really one to complain given that you were quite happy to call me stupid too, but I don't really care. Instead I'll ask did you intend to make a rubbish analogy or did it happen by accident?

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Fri 23-Nov-12 21:19:53

Sorry Flangelina, I have no interest in engaging in a "debate" with abusive people.

FlangelinaBallerina Fri 23-Nov-12 21:24:01

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Fri 23-Nov-12 22:16:58

I am genuinely perplexed.

OliviaMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 23-Nov-12 22:23:10

Oi oi
Peace and love thanks

LDNmummy Fri 23-Nov-12 22:36:45

I have this problem with my DD. She is very allergic to milk, though getting a little better. Up until recently if you had acup of tea with milk in it and gave her a kiss even 20 mins later, even a trace of milk on your mouth would leave an outline of your lips on her skin.

It meant that either I was stuck at home exclusively breastfeeding her for the last year, or getting a prescription for the only formula that would suit her dietary needs as it is seriously pricey.

The thing is, most people with milk allergies can't even have soya as a substitute because they will have the same reaction as they do to milk. I tried DD with soya yogurt to see if she could have it and after it built up in her system, she couldn't tolerate it either sadly.

Now because she doesn't get the bacteria most people get from dairy or dairy related products, she is lacking in good gut bacteria and has really bad flare ups of things like thrush.

I have bought her some freeze dried bacteria which is also expensive though less so, and add this to rice milk or juice for her.

Her diet is far more limited than those who only have a lactose intolerance and it can lead to further medical problems that require regular GP visits.

I am still breastfeeding to make sure she is getting as much from my milk as possible to compensate for whatever she may be missing out on, and I give her vitamins daily.

LDNmummy Fri 23-Nov-12 22:43:29

If anyone can recommend dairy and soya free alternatives to me that don't cost an arm and a leg I would really appreciate it.

A tub of coconut oil is somewhere over £5 and only available from a few places in central London for me.

LDNmummy Fri 23-Nov-12 22:43:52

coconut yogurt, not oil!

Wheresmypopcorn Sat 24-Nov-12 04:00:02

Seriously? YABVU

foxy6 Sat 24-Nov-12 04:23:30

op i can understand where your coming from my sister used to have nearly all her food free on prescription when she was little due to lots of food allergy's and your dc might also qualify for [prescription food when older.
but yes to day i should get paid to eat a special diet whilst breastfeeding is like saying we should get paid for not drinking alcohol and smoking whilst breastfeeding because of the health problems we are preventing.

sashh Sat 24-Nov-12 05:58:51

If you really want to save the NHS money don't have a child. That will save the NHS a ton.

TenaciousOne Sat 24-Nov-12 06:30:52

LDNMummy, why coconut oil? That is expensive if you are looking for a butter substitute, Pure is a good one. I use Pure sunflower or Olive not soya for the reasons stated it effects DS.
Children under 5 shouldn't have rice milk, so we use either Oatly or Coconut milk.

3bunnies Sat 24-Nov-12 07:37:09

For those who are asking for schemes to be paid not to smoke, good news, in some areas the NHS will pay you to give up smoking, plus you save the fag money.

I don't agree with being given money for a dairy free life, but I don't think it would break NHS bank to give prescription on request to bf mother of dairy free child for sufficient calcium + vit D tablets. You need loads of calcium when bf for your bones and the child's teeth and bones.

FWIW all three of mine couldn't have milk to varying degrees, the girls still don't have much, but ds who was the worst (I had to be dairy and soya free from 2 weeks); also intollerant to potato, rice, flour etc. I had to be absolutely free of even traces otherwise his hernia came out and he bled internally. He is now just 3, eats whatever he likes, gets through 3-4 cows milk drinks a day, and is fine. I know I have been v lucky with him, plus going for zero contaminents initiallly helped. Still feel a bit sad that e.g. Dd2 won't eat ice cream - she possibly could but says they don't taste nice (dietician said not unusual) (btw swedish glace is soya so not suitable for most CMPI), but we find some lovely sorbets instead.

I know it won't help everyone, Couthy's son sounds far worse than ds, but many of them do grow out of it, and being hypervigilent now really does help in the long run.

trixymalixy Sat 24-Nov-12 08:08:09

when DS was dairy and soya free I never bought coconut yoghurt LDNmummy. For puddings he had custard made with bird's eye custard powder and oat milk with fruit stirred in. I sometimes also stirred fruit into Oatly cream. I also made rice pudding, jelly with fruit and certain flavours of the old fashioned blancmange are dairy and soya free. None of those are expensive.

You don't NEED coconut yoghurt, there are plenty of low cost alternatives.

trixymalixy Sat 24-Nov-12 08:14:08

I also made ice cream from oat cream, but not very often as that ended up quite expensive. So he would have sorbet or ice lollies instead.

I nearly cried when we were in Rome and found rice ice cream in a Gelateria.

I want paying for not abusing and/or murdering my children. I'm saving the NHS, Police and Social Services so much time and money!

KittyFane1 Sat 24-Nov-12 08:43:03

I eat no dairy and I eat no bread.
It is perfectly possible to cook without either.
As for the NHS paying, YABVU. get on the Internet and do some research into what you can eat instead. You don't need to substitute it for other 'dairy like products' . Find other things to eat.

DS2 is gluten and dairy intolerant. We don't get his (or my food as I bf) free and nor would I expect it and we manage on a fairly low budget. (make own bread/cakes/biscuits).

At least we have the alternative foods, many countries don't have a basic selection!

FlangelinaBallerina Sat 24-Nov-12 10:20:02

Perhaps you're perplexed because my 'abusive' post has been deleted whereas yours hasn't Quint. I was just explaining that you already had got into such a debate and had indeed been abusive yourself. The time to decide not to engage had therefore been and gone. I have a particular problem with people who are happy to be rude then suddenly decide, after throwing out an insult, that suddenly they're going to take the moral high ground. bit late for that!

OHforDUCKScake Sat 24-Nov-12 11:02:59

Flangelina, Ive got to ask what are you on about?

Ive read Quints posts and see nothing abusive all? One about saving the NHS money by not smoking (a lot of posters said the same thing) and pointing out that the NHS is health insurance.

How is it abusive in anyway? Or make her a fuckwit?

I, along with most on here, agree with her. Yet you seem to be pointing her out.

Why?

OHforDUCKScake Sat 24-Nov-12 11:03:42

NHS is *not health insurance

BalloonSlayer Sat 24-Nov-12 11:26:55

Why shouldn't children under 5 have rice milk?

My DS1 was on it from 18 months.

< looks suspiciously at strapping 12 year old wondering when he is going to crumble into bits >

OHforDUCKScake Sat 24-Nov-12 11:29:18

BalloonSlayer I may be wrong here but I think its to do with the level of arsenic in the rice milk.

trixymalixy Sat 24-Nov-12 11:45:40

Yes, it's to do with the level of arsenic. I think it's only an issue if it's used as a main drink for under 5s, but we mostly steer clear of it anyway.

DS had loads of it when he was little too, before we heard about it.

BalloonSlayer Sat 24-Nov-12 11:49:42

Whoops what does arsenic do to you then? confused

Does it make you lose everything you own, "forget" to clean your teeth and be incapable of organising your homework? If so, I fear DS1 may have been badly affected.

When this happened to my DS I mainly lived on bourbons and Hobnobs. I think it was this that mad me determined to work with the medics to wean him back onto cows milk which we were luckily able to do within 6months.
If it is any reassurance CMP-allergy in babies is often temporary so it won't be like this forever.

And I made lots of cakes with Vitalite.

Oh yes, and YOU should be getting the calcium supplements (they are massive) on prescription (which will be free because your baby is little). If this hasn't happened you need to talk to your dietician at the hospital.

OHforDUCKScake Sat 24-Nov-12 12:45:54

Clemete no amount of determination to work with medics will get an allergic baby back on cows milk.

Your situation must have been quite mild.

clemett CMPI is often temporary. CMPA isn't.

OP you have my sympathies, DS is both dairy-intolerant and soya-intolerant and it has made food shopping an enormous and expensive pain. You've had some good advice here, just ignore the vitriol and head over to the Allergies board (if you haven't already!).

My son was hospitalised, given a lumbar puncture and a CT scan because he was screaming 24 hours a day and they didn't know why. It wasn't mild, it was horrific.
CMP intolerance is not the same as lactose intolerance and does not have the same prognosis. Given that many cases of CMP can be traced to assymptomatic gastroenteritis in very early infancy, once the GI system has had chance to recover (in our case it took six months) then the allergen can be reintroduced slowly and under supervision (this of course is the theory behind the brilliant work being done at Great Ormond Street.)

There are undoubtedly cases where this doesn't happen (I see many of these on the wards) but CMP is one of the most likely to be more short-lived. I think it is important to give parents hope, and then strategies to cope with whatever situation they are in (generally I don't tell parents in clinic that I survived ours living only on biscuits)

Joyful, fair point, but at 10 weeks old the issue of intolerance versus allergy is not known because the system has not yet had the opportunity to recover from the effects of the intolerance. Allergy only proven once that has happened.

OHforDUCKScake Sat 24-Nov-12 13:18:32

I assumed we were talking about allergies, as in the OP. If you had mentioned intolerancd it would have made more sense. I understand what you mean now. In fact, I actually didnt know that about intolerances.

I agree about allergy only proven once it has happened. It makes me think the OP's child maybe intolerant rather than allergic. I was going to post that but thought I sounded as though I thought I knew better that her paeditrician, which I dont. I did know more than my sons paeditrician but they were incompetent wankers

There is a massive problem of diagnosis because they often present in the same way don't they (DS was very poorly) and yet paediatricians can be sceptical. And as it is often a diagnosis of exclusion intolerance and allergy are often confused and conflated. With a baby as young as in the OP the statistics suggest it is more likely to be intolerance (which is horrible at the time but can be "overcome") rather than allergy (which can sometimes also be overcome depending on the immune response and the allergen).

FlangelinaBallerina Sat 24-Nov-12 13:26:05

Ducks the abusive post has now been deleted, but she was calling me stupid. I don't care, but what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If my rude post goes, so does hers.

I have explained more than once now why the argument that people are saving the NHS money by not doing various risky things is not analagous to OP's or indeed relevant to discussion. Quint wasn't even the first person I said that too, it was Absy, which rather dumps on your suggestion that I'm somehow pointing Quint out. You evidently couldn't be bothered to look upthread to find my one remaining explanation as to why the 'I'm saving the NHS money by not doing X risky thing' doesn't work. I'll repost it:

--------------------
FlangelinaBallerinaFri 23-Nov-12 13:39:18

Absy, your analogy attempt is a failure. This is because the things you list won't automatically cost the NHS money. It is quite possible that a person could skydive every day then have a bottle of wine and 20 cigarettes when they land, and still suffer no health effects whatsoever. There is a correlation between engaging in these behaviours and costing the NHS money, but it is not inevitable or automatic. Whereas if OP stops bf, the automatic consequence will be the NHS paying for hypoallergenic formula, or for treatment when DS gets ill because of unsuitable formula. It is inevitable. A totally different situation to the one you describe.

I get that people think OP is taking the piss, but can we all try really hard not to be fucking stupid please?
-------------------------------

The other has been deleted, but I said the same thing to Quint. Her choosing not to smoke bears no resemblance at all to OP, because OP is choosing to do something healthy rather than refraining from doing something unhealthy. I may have missed anyone else making the same poor analogy. If so, please do apply to them and anyone who has agreed with the poor analogies all the things I said to Quint that have been deleted and to Absy that haven't, if it makes you feel less like there's been a raving injustice.

They can't always get it prescribed. Depends on the reason for being gluten free (mine never were although ds1 was prescribed soya formula). Tbh the gluten free alternatives are grim you're better off just eating non gluten containing foods.

I think I managed to prevent ds3 becoming severely autistic - the NHS and SS must owe me a fortune :shops for pad with swimming pool:

ShellyBoobs Sat 24-Nov-12 13:36:50

...because OP is choosing to do something healthy rather than refraining from doing something unhealthy...

I chose to run, cylce and go to the gym. That's choosing to do something healthy. Why shouldn't I have my gym membership paid for, or a bike bought, or some running shoes?

OHforDUCKScake Sat 24-Nov-12 13:40:22

I see what you're saying now flange I do.

I have to say though, I could be bothered to look upthread. Countless times in fact. I obviously missed that one post.

ScottLass Sat 24-Nov-12 13:41:23

Whilst I don't necessarily agree with you that the NHS should contribute to a dairy-free diet for you, I do empathise as I am currently breastfeeding my cmpi DS (and he is also on solids too!). It can be expensive, but it doesn't have to be if you plan well IMO.

I try to buy soya milk when it is on offer as I do find that it is the one thing that is more expensive. I would say that dairy-free cream, margarine and yoghurts are comparable to their dairy counterparts in terms of cost. Yes, the free-from range is expensive and I do buy muffins etc from there but to be honest I think it would be cheaper to make them myself and they don't taste amazing anyway! There is a great thread on the allergy board about surprise dairy-free finds - things like own-brand Bourbon creams and Hobnobs - I eat these biscuits and they don't cost anymore iyswim. I'd be happy to help you think through some dairy-free substitutions that don't cost the earth if you want to say what you feel is expensive?

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Sat 24-Nov-12 13:46:22

CMPI may be grown out of, and milder CMPA may be grown out of, but there is a very low likelyhood that my DS3's anaphylactic reaction to the smallest traces of CMP will be grown out of.

All a food challenge would do is send him into anaphylaxis, same as the skin prick tests do.

OrbisNonSufficit Sat 24-Nov-12 14:05:53

YABU. I went dairy free for a few years (not allergic to dairy, but it can exacerbate other allergies) and I don't understand how it's expensive? Just don't use milk or eat things with dairy in them, you don't have to buy substitute products. But then I don't like cake or milky coffee etc so maybe it was easier for me as a result. As a side note, if you do get the NHS to pay can I please get paid for not being overweight / not smoking / eating healthy food / etc? I must be saving the NHS a fortune.

Side note: I didn't realise proteins can pass unchanged from the bloodstream into breast milk, now I do. Every day's a school day!

LDNmummy Sat 24-Nov-12 18:14:02

"when DS was dairy and soya free I never bought coconut yoghurt LDNmummy. For puddings he had custard made with bird's eye custard powder and oat milk with fruit stirred in. I sometimes also stirred fruit into Oatly cream. I also made rice pudding, jelly with fruit and certain flavours of the old fashioned blancmange are dairy and soya free. None of those are expensive.

You don't NEED coconut yoghurt, there are plenty of low cost alternatives."

Trixy I was talking about a yogurt substitute specifically because I had talked in my previous post about her having a low level of good bacteria to ward of health problems such as thrush. Not a pudding substitute but a substitute for dairy products that carry the right bacteria to balance out her healthy flora. She has a lot of flair ups which I am trying to balance out with vitamins and freeze dried bacteria.

I'm also dealing with a toddler who is VERY fussy with what she eats and who wouldn't eat any of the things you have mentioned. Its hard enough to get her to drink milk. She will however eat yogurt. In fact its probably the only soft textured food she will eat. She wouldn't even eat pureed foods as a baby.

We usually give her oat milk but we can only get it at the larger supermarket so have been giving her rice milk this week as its the only non soya/ dairy milk available right now.

I think people who have opted to have a dairy free lifestyle don't realise just how much food produce is off limits if you have an actual allergy to milk.

LDNmummy Sat 24-Nov-12 18:17:37

I actually didn't stop drinking normal milk completely before my daughter started eating solids. I still had it in tea and small portions to see if getting it through BM would help her build a tolerance.

I think in her case this actually worked.

LDNmummy Sat 24-Nov-12 18:19:22

Also, it is expensive when a baby is dairy free, not an adult. There is a big difference I find if you are an adult because the range of foods you can/ will eat is much broader.

BalloonSlayer Sat 24-Nov-12 18:34:44

This thread is making me feel frustrated with all the "well just don't buy dairy then, don't bother with substitutes, then it's not expensive" comments.

Most people in this country eat similar diets. They eat cereal with milk on, drink tea or coffee with milk in, have a sandwich for lunch and a hot dinner in the evening. Once or twice a week - or more often - they might have a bit of cake, or some chocolate. Maybe once a week they get a takeaway pizza, and when it's hot they treat themselves and the children to an ice cream.

I do not accept that if you are suddenly told you have to stop eating dairy because you are breastfeeding an allergic DC, that if you buy dairy substitutes so you can eat something approximating the food you used to be able to eat - which the rest of your family are still enjoying - is somehow being self-indulgent.

I've got 3 DCs - one allergic to milk, 2 not. If I took the advice on this thread I would let the two non allergic DCs have an ice cream but give the allergic one a bourbon biscuit. Or make the whole family eat bourbon biscuits on a hot summer day. Actually I have done just that, many a time. The times we have gone out with a pack of bourbons and not let any of them have an ice cream as there's nothing for DS1 and it's not fair.

But also I do think that my allergic DS should be able to have an "ice cream" so I do buy expensive substitutes, so he can have something that every other kid he knows has. I can afford it - lucky me. But still I get annoyed at the price. And I moan about the price. Which is all the OP was doing really.

And I don't expect to get given it for free, and I don't think the OP was either. She was just venting.

So NER.

messtins Sat 24-Nov-12 19:04:31

YAB (a bit) U. I had to be dairy and soya free for over a year to BF DS2 who is intolerant. It's no more expensive - you don't need to buy "free from" foods, just shop around for brands that don't contain dairy. Calcium supplements if you need them are really cheap.
We got access to an NHS dietician and my DS had prescribed supplements, I wasn't cheeky enough to ask them to buy food for us...
I can see your point when celiacs get food on prescription though, hence you are only (a bit) U.
You could extend your point to say all BF mothers should be paid because they are saving the NHS money - it will never happen - you need to take the knowledge that you are doing the best for your child as all the thanks you'll get.

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Sat 24-Nov-12 19:09:57

Balloonslayer - I just make my own ice lollies for all of them! Fresh fruit juice makes excellent lollies.

I was a dairy-aholic before I had to go dairy free for DS3. Now I barely eat it. Except for chocolate once a month now.

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Sat 24-Nov-12 19:12:28

Calippo ice lollies are dairy free too.

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Sat 24-Nov-12 19:13:31

And, as I have already mentioned, my cholesterol level has plummeted to very low since I stopped eating dairy.

I just bought different stuff when out for whichever child wasn't eating gluten/cow's milk. As long as they could have something I found they didn't care. Used to carry something they liked around with me.

OrbisNonSufficit Sat 24-Nov-12 19:21:16

balloonslayer I have to disagree. It's just food, it's not a death sentence to have to eat something different to everyone else. I'm allergic to a LOT of things (incl additives/preservatives in food) and you just get on with it. Yes, I break out in hives if I eat uncured pork products because it has E250 in it. Yes, I get horrible asthma when I am anywhere near a cat or where a cat has been, or I'm around dust or mould (which is everywhere in old damp housing stock). But life goes on, people adapt to their circumstances. I don't moan about it I just eat things that don't upset me and if I happen to be visiting a friend who has a cat I take a lot of ventolin. C'est la vie.

BalloonSlayer Sat 24-Nov-12 21:45:38

I am impressed that you are so stoical, Orbis.

Nevertheless, if I was your Mum, I would be well pissed off at what you were losing out on and would be ranting about it to all and sundry.

Couthy so sorry at what your DS has to go through - much worse than my DS's allergy (which is bad enough!)

LDNmummy Sat 24-Nov-12 21:50:42

A lot of the people who are saying "it's just food" or "it's easy to be dairy free", are looking at it from the perpective of having this diet as an adult.

In my experience, it is way different when you have a small baby or toddler who is learning to get to grips with food.

I think one of the things that makes it very difficult is also the practicality of maintaining a dairy free diet in a fast paced society. I have to deal with this issue because I live in London. Everything here moves quickly and I barely have time to cook a decent home made meal every day. That is why this society is so dependent on snack foods and ready meals.

In my mothers country we have an almost completely dairy free diet but there is a lot of time dedicated to preparing home cooked meals. Life moves substantially slower so this can be accommodated.

When I am a full time student trying to get domestic things sorted and juggling all that with raising a toddler, it is hard to keep up with maintaining a dairy free diet which means a heavier load of domestic work. It actually makes a huge difference.

Having to source dairy free substitutes for a child with allergies like my DD means making even the simplest things from scratch at home. Not a bad thing at all, but when you consider that you have to do this with even yogurt (not fixating, just an example), you come to realise what a difference it makes to have ready made substitutes available so you can save time and effort and funnel that into other daily chores.

The problem once you find these dairy free alternatives like coconut based yogurt is then the price. £5 for one small pot of yogurt is shocking when compared to the price of even the nicest dairy based yogurt.

I don't know if I am explaining my point very well but hopefully it kind of makes sense.

LDNmummy Sat 24-Nov-12 21:55:26

Also, one of the big differences with adults and children dealing with these dietary issues is the other things that can be found in substitute foods.

For instance, when looking for dairy free foods for my DD, these foods are not really catered to children. They contain a lot of things not good for children like artificial sweeteners, which I found in almost all the substitute foods I have tried. This narrows done choices even more and means you have to get the very expensive stuff to ensure it is absolutely child appropriate.

LDN - I have three children who at various times have been gluten and/or cow's milk free. It wasn't that difficult - and a damn sight easier now than it was 11 years ago (when I had to go to Chinese supermarkets to buy the flour to make the bread).

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Sun 25-Nov-12 08:23:43

As an aside, I have found dairy/soy/nut free Jammy Dodgers. The cheapy Tesco version is made with vegetable oil.

I find that a lot of the time, value ranges are dairy free as they are made from vegetable oil rather than butter, as it is cheaper.

Tesco value digestives are dairy/soy/nut free too. Great for decorating with icing with your toddler!

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Sun 25-Nov-12 08:24:32

It's far easier to find 'free from' things now than it was even 5 years ago, when DS1 first went GF.

trixymalixy Sun 25-Nov-12 10:30:34

LDNmummy, I actually have been through exactly the same as you, I was dairy free from when DS was 12 weeks old as he was reacting to the proteins in my breast milk , he had his first skin prick tests at 6 months old as did my DD. I ended up bfing until they were over two as they wouldnt take the hypo formula. DS was a nightmare to wean as well, we couldn't get him to eat hardly any solids until he was about a year old, it was very frustrating. So I can empathise, and I didn't get from your post that the coconut yoghurt was for other reasons than just a pudding.

I used to buy dairy free probiotics for DS, which would be much cheaper than yoghurts at £5 a pop.

Dairy and soya free is hard, I was so delighted when DS outgrew the soya allergy.

I have to disagree though as I think it's easier for a baby to be dairy free from the start. DS has never had cheese, he's never had cow's milk or eggs, so he doesn't miss these things in the same way an adult going dairy free would after having eaten them, so I don't think you need to substitute in the same way.

It does take a bit of adjustment and a bit of research reading loads of packets to find what they can and can't eat, but it does become just normal eventually. We mostly eat dairy free as a family.

It's nice for them to be able to have ice cream etc, but I do think they just need to get used to the idea that very often they are not going to be able to eat things other people are having. My two are very stoical about it, they don't get upset that they can't have the ice cream everyone else is having and have an ice lolly instead. That's just the way life is going to be and they'll have to get used to it. Perhaps they will be less stoical as they get a bit older, I don't know.

I would also have thought that living in London, sourcing dairy free alternatives would be a lot easier than it is here in Scotland. When I was looking for rice yoghurts and ice cream for DS the postage was astronomical, whereas all the stockists listed were in London. Although it definitely has become loads easier and cheaper than it was 5 years ago to get alternatives,tesco now stocks dairy free cheese and Oatly and pure are quite often on offer.

trixymalixy Sun 25-Nov-12 10:38:58

The one thing I will moan about though is the lack of egg free cakes in the supermarkets though. Thankfully I like baking and would probably have made their birthday cakes anyway, but it would be a nightmare if I didn't!

LDNmummy Sun 25-Nov-12 15:25:27

Trixy is egg off limits when you have a dairy allergy? I didn't know that but DD has never wanted to eat eggs so I haven't seen her react to it. I actually thought she didn't want eggs because she may instinctively know they aren't good for her. She always spits it out when I have made her some.

Can you please tell me which dairy free probiotic you used for your DC as I couldn't find a dairy free one when I was researching a few months ago. I would really appreciate info on any products you can recommend.

Saintly you said "when I had to go to Chinese supermarkets to buy the flour to make the bread". This was exactly one of my points. Lifestyle does not always permit the time needed to stand in the kitchen and prepare things like bread from scratch. Luckily my DD can eat store bought bread fine.

I think people are thinking that I feel sorry for myself. I don't. I just think that it is not always that easy either. My point was that depending on individual circumstances, it is not actually as easy as people think to manage an allergy like a milk allergy.

higgyjig Sun 25-Nov-12 15:29:08

re: Ice cream

freeze bananas
blend

ta-da, ice cream

Co-Op UHT sweetened soya milk for non-sugar tasty soya milk (uses apple juice instead)

Acekicker Sun 25-Nov-12 15:43:10

Another good tip is Kosher Parev/Parve (sp?) food. This is food which is neutral in Jewish food laws and therefore is dairy free. Back when I couldn't eat dairy I used to use the tiny Jewish range in our local Sainsbury's for treats and sweets sometimes. I used to live in dread that they would stop stocking it as there wasn't a huge Jewish community in that town so I regularly bought all kinds of stuff from the range just so they could see demand was there (DH's particular favourite was in the run up to Passover one year when I came home with Kosher Sprite for no other reason than 'I want them to keep stocking the parev stuff, they need to think I'm Jewish!')

Also regarding substitutions for kids, my own experience (I was 18 when my allergy was diagnosed) was that I loathed dairy products, all I associated them with was making me feel ill - I was the freaky 5 year old who ate Bournville not Milky Bar, never ate sponge cake etc. You may find you don't need to actually substitute at all, they may not be missing those particular tastes/flavours. There is also the valid point that with genuine allergies, kids do need to learn that life is sometimes a bitch and they simply cannot have what everyone else is having - it is horrible, DS has sobbed and sobbed to me a couple of times when he first started school and kids had brought in cakes that might have had nuts in but fundamentally he has had to learn that lesson. He's now coming up 8 and was extremely matter of fact when I explained he won't be getting an ice-cream on the class outing in a couple of weeks - yes he'll get to take some sweets from his swap box but I can't rustle up a nut free ice-cream to take on a school trip and he has had to learn to accept that.

LDNmummy Sun 25-Nov-12 16:07:23

Thank you higgy and ace!

Any tips are appreciated. DD has started eating a few new things in the last few weeks so I'm hoping its a sign that she is opening up a bit when it comes to solid foods. She wouldn't even eat bananas until last week! She used to throw them back up too.

I don't like forcing her so after maybe three separate attempts, if she still won't eat whatever I am trying with her I stop trying and wait a few weeks before trying again. It has been a struggle to get her beyond eating only bread as a snack and wanting to breastfeed for every meal. I honestly think she associated solid food's with feeling ill.

I will try all the things suggested.

trixymalixy Sun 25-Nov-12 16:10:22

LDNmummy, both my kids are allergic to egg (DS also to nuts, sesame, lentils, chickpeas sad), you don't need to avoid it if you have a dairy allergy, but if your DD is spitting it out, it may mean it is making her mouth feel funny. It was a long time ago, but I'll have a look and see if I can find what the probiotic was.

trixymalixy Sun 25-Nov-12 16:24:06

I'd forgotten about the frozen bananas, they are really nice.

I'm fairly certain it was viridian that I used. There seems to be a larger range and some cheaper ones available than when I used it though.

It's hard to know when weaning an allergic child whether to keep trying things or not sad. We made a few mistakes, most notably with humous on the dietician's advice, wish I'd followed my instincts.

LDNMummy THIS is a very good pro-biotic & it is lactose free (suitable for vegans). It is in capsule form, but for young DC, you can always open capsule & put into a drink etc

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