Opinions Please

(90 Posts)
treas Thu 22-Nov-12 18:18:18

This morning I went to the early bird swim session at the local pool.

On completing my 2 mile swim, [hark at her]grin, pupils from my dd's school were sat on the side waiting for the start of their lesson. These were children from my dd's yr but not her class - she will swim in Januarysad

The pupils were v. v. well behaved when suddenly there was a buzz of chatter as the message "Miss is getting in" passed around the group and I turned to see a woman in her swimming costume walking down the side. She then told the group "No I'm not!"

Anyway! Once I had finished changing I had to go back on poolside to get my googles and saw "Miss" swimming lengths while the children were taught by the hired swimming teachers.

AIBU to think that "Miss" who was in charge of the class should not have been having a freebie swim and should have been keeping an eye on the children in a behaviour rather than swimming teaching capacity?

So really I'd like to know:

1/ How would you feel if your child had been in this lesson?

2/ If IANBU should I raise the issue with the school?

mrskeithrichards Thu 22-Nov-12 18:20:48

I don't see the problem, she's setting a good example!

IAmSoFuckingRock Thu 22-Nov-12 18:23:19

how do you know she didn't pay for the swim session?

treas Thu 22-Nov-12 18:25:13

My issue isn't whether she paid or not but whether as she was in charge of the children whether she should have been swimming at all - she was definitely not helping with the children.

lisad123 Thu 22-Nov-12 18:26:47

Pretty sure she should be in charge of her class rather than swimming lengths! I wouldn't be happy

Meandmycats Thu 22-Nov-12 18:27:13

I would be pleased the school had already instilled the level of discipline required for the teacher to be able to swim without having to worry about their behaviour. If the swimming teachers were adequately in control I would think it was fine. Plus, if she was in the same pool I'm sure a swimming teacher could have notified her immediately with regard to any problem - and she probably was aware of more than you might think anyway. The only thing I might contact the school about regarding the situation above would be to compliment them in the pupils' behaviour.

missymoomoomee Thu 22-Nov-12 18:29:28

They were being looked after by the trained professionals that have been paid to teach them how to swim. She was in the pool too she was obviously within hearing distance of the kids. I don't see your problem really. Don't raise the issue with the school.

EvilTwins Thu 22-Nov-12 18:29:43

If the school is paying for the swimming tuition, then the class teacher probably just has to BE there. I can't see that it's any different to, say, having a specialist music teacher in whilst the class teacher sits at the back with her marking. She was in the pool if there was an issue, and on hand if she was needed, but given that she wasn't actually teaching the session, she didn't need to be with the group.

FredFredGeorge Thu 22-Nov-12 18:32:37

Seems entirely appropriate - she's there if there's a problem, she's setting a good example, she's staying fit. Everything is good. YABU.

At our school teachers don't even go to the swimming pool with their class. It is left entirely to the PE staff.
It is used as our non-class contact time.

FreyaFridays Thu 22-Nov-12 18:39:00

In our senior school, we do a lot of "modelling good behaviour" in and out of the classroom. Things like sitting in view of the class reading your own book during reading time, stuff like that. This wouldn't bother me at all; she's setting an example of keeping fit using swimming. I can imagine, if I was her, I'd be pining for something to do whilst the children were being taught by the professional swim teachers.

treas Thu 22-Nov-12 18:46:28

Dramajustfollowsme - I believe that "Miss" was a TA rather than the actual class teacher.

1/ As I did not recognise her as one of dd's year teachers
2/ In the past the school has been taken to the pool be someone I know and who is actually a TA. This particular TA always observes the children from the poolside.

treas Thu 22-Nov-12 18:50:21

FreyaFridays - I understand fully her wanting to do something while the children are being taught to swim.

Guess it is just my instinct as a lifeguard when I was a teenager kicking in.

MainlyMaynie Thu 22-Nov-12 18:52:15

I can't really see how much more help a TA sitting on the poolside would be to the professional swimming teachers than a TA swimming in the pool. Actually, I wish our teachers had joined in with all PE activities. I bet we wouldn't have been cross-country running in shorts in mid-winter then grin

HullyEastergully Thu 22-Nov-12 18:52:23

That is very odd

treas Thu 22-Nov-12 18:53:21

How so HullyEastergully

HullyEastergully Thu 22-Nov-12 18:54:08

Just never ever heard of a teacher with a class getting in the pool and having a private swim.

treas Thu 22-Nov-12 18:56:43

I Know!

Sparklingbrook Thu 22-Nov-12 20:34:20

Is it possible she was needed for say, supervision on the coach but not actually for the lessons, so she swam rather than hang about doing nothing?

FrootLoops Fri 23-Nov-12 13:48:18

My concern with the teacher being in the pool rather than poolside would be if one of the children suddenly needed medical attention then it could be delayed if the teacher needs to get dressed first.

Also the teacher will probably be supervising behaviour in the changing rooms after the lesson so should be dried, dressed and ready before the children come out of the pool.

ClippedPhoenix Fri 23-Nov-12 13:52:15

I also think that's a bit off.

Onetwothreeoops Fri 23-Nov-12 13:57:02

I wouldn't be happy. Also, why tell the children she is not getting in? That's bizarre!

fluffyraggies Fri 23-Nov-12 13:59:02

I'm not sure it's a good thing.

If i had a group of children in my care off-site, then i would want to be paying attention to whats going on with them as much as possible.

I know the swimming instructors were technically in charge while the children were in the water.

I know many teachers/TAs don't stay poolside when the lesson is going on.

But the point is though that should anything go wrong (i'm not talking drowning necessarily here either,there could be vomiting, upset tum ... etc) a teacher or TA dressed and dry by the pool or in an adjacent room is going to be able to react immediately.

bruffin Fri 23-Nov-12 14:04:21

She may be a parent volunteering. I used to help out with swimming, although i did get in the pool to help, that was only because I knew the swim teachers very well. However normally the TAs and the parents helpers did nothing but supervise getting there and getting changed.

Any medical attention would be given by the lifeguards and pool staff

NoraGainesborough Fri 23-Nov-12 14:06:32

Guess it is just my instinct as a lifeguard when I was a teenager kicking in.

Sorry but this made me laugh. Why did your 'instincts' kick in?

The swimming teachers are more likely to be trained as life guards than the TA.

bruffin Fri 23-Nov-12 14:13:16

But the point is though that should anything go wrong (i'm not talking drowning necessarily here either,there could be vomiting, upset tum ... etc) a teacher or TA dressed and dry by the pool or in an adjacent room is going to be able to react immediately.

There will be at least two or more TAs, parent helpers. teachers etc for swimming. We always had at least 3 for 30.

TroublesomeEx Fri 23-Nov-12 14:14:01

I'm guessing the HT knows about it anyway so I wouldn't raise it with the school.

With all the swimming instructors, children and members of the public (who may include parents) would be there to witness it, i can't imagine any teacher would do this without the HT's knowledge/permission.

As much as anything, they'd wonder why she turned up back at school with wet hair and why the children were saying "Miss went swimming" otherwise.

If you don't want the HT/school to know you're doing something, you don't do it in front of the children!!

Alisvolatpropiis Fri 23-Nov-12 15:50:20

Bit odd. I don't recall any of my teachers havig a little private swim whilst the class had a lesson when I was at promary school.

treas Sat 24-Nov-12 18:28:03

NoraGainesborough - just taking the mick out of myself - glad you appreciated it.

bruffin - No only one TA and the two teachers hired externally.

FolkGirl - Actually the school has pool entirely to themselves, they were just early and crossed over with the end of the early bird session. Usually no members of the public to witness.

Can't help feeling she didn't feel comfortable doing it as she outright lied in front of me to her pupils.

helpyourself Sat 24-Nov-12 18:30:31

Why would you notice this, let alone mind? confused

Rudolphstolemycarrots Sat 24-Nov-12 18:38:48

I think it depends if any of the children needed help or if the swimming class sizes were too big and could have been made smaller with her help. Other wise fair doos, I agree it sets a good example

treas Sat 24-Nov-12 18:56:55

helpyourself - because she was supposed to be minding the children which she most definitely was not.

I expect people would view it differently if it was their children who were not supervised as having spoken to friends whose children go to the school have had a completely different opinion.

Also wonder what position it would put the school in if there was an incident as a parent might claim negligence.

NoTeaForMe Sat 24-Nov-12 19:10:40

I can't believe that she is supposed to do that. But where is the other member of staff? Surely there should have been two of them for the coach and being with the children while they got changed...maybe they take it in turns? One supervises poolside and one has a swim?

helpyourself Sat 24-Nov-12 20:10:36

They were having a lesson with a teacher?confused
Another teacher, who was there to get them to and from the pool and supervise changing was swimming. Still confused

helpyourself Sat 24-Nov-12 20:12:32

having spoken to friends whose children go to the school have had a completely different opinion.

MidniteScribbler Sat 24-Nov-12 20:47:56

Seriously, why the heck is this any of your business? I'm sure that the swimming teachers, being blessed with a tongue in their heads, could have told her to stop swimming if they thought she wasn't doing her job.


treas Sat 24-Nov-12 21:21:12

MidniteScribbler - I am minding my own however, it could very well involve my own child and I am entitled to have a view even if it is not the same as yours.

LivvyPsMum Sat 24-Nov-12 21:27:45

I wouldn't be too chuffed. She was supposedly working, but having a swim instead!

Sparklingbrook Sat 24-Nov-12 21:30:55

Do we know for sure she was supposed to be working though? And not just help for the coach/changing rooms?

ArthurandGeorge Sat 24-Nov-12 21:41:23

I thinkit's unusual but not sure it's wrong.

If the swimming instructors aren't happy then they can speak out either directly or via HT.

Not convinced that a dry teacher sitting in the spectator area reading a book and having a coffee is setting a better example.

NoTeaForMe Sat 24-Nov-12 21:48:59

treas did you see my post?

FightingTheMess Sat 24-Nov-12 22:01:59

Whenever I have accompanied swimming lessons (as a volunteer and now as a trainee teacher) the teachers are sitting outside the pool. They make sure the kids are getting ready and then go outside, i.e. the entrance hall where there a couches and snack bars. They couldn't see the children from there either. So from that point of view I would assume that schools are usually ok with the children being out of view of the teacher. So does swimming make a difference? I don't think so but somehow it still feels a bit weird to me.

treas Sat 24-Nov-12 22:02:51

Sorry NoTeaForMe - I have never seen more than one school staff supervisor for the children. However, there are two external staff swimming teachers teaching the lesson so obviously this is considered enough hmm

treas Sat 24-Nov-12 22:08:00

FightingTheMess - from previous sessions a TA (not the same TA each time) has observed the session from poolside. Just this time this particular TA went in for a swim.

Mainly I think it felt weird to me because she lied to the children about not getting in - why? It would have drawn less attention if she had just said nothing at all.

StellaNova Sat 24-Nov-12 22:15:10

I didn't take from your post that she had lied. I assumed she meant she wasn't getting in with the kids and that's what they understood by her reply. Surely it was obvious she was getting in a pool somewhere otherwise why would she have a costume on?

ArthurandGeorge Sat 24-Nov-12 22:18:11

That's what I thought, Stella. Also there was a gap when you were not witness to what went on.

kenanddreary Sat 24-Nov-12 22:30:31

No, no, no! This is just wrong on so many levels and I am shocked that the school are ok with this.

The teacher/TA (and incidentally there should be two of them not one) should be at the side of the pool assisting in supervision and ready to help should they be needed for asthma attacks, cramp, children falling out with each other and getting upset (a common occurrence) and anything else that may arise. The teachers from the school know the children far better than a swimming instructor who meets them once a week for a short period of time and is better equipped to sort out any problems. The teacher/TA should have a risk assessment, inhalers and mobile phone handy. If they are required to assist they should certainly not have to be called away from their fitness session in the pool!

Basic health and safety regulations in my LA insist on the above. In fact, teachers and TAs are regularly involved in the swimming instruction too.

And apart from health and safety...this is a PE lesson and the teacher should be watching and recording notes in order to be able to assess the progress of the children!! How on earth can proper feedback be given to parents either verbally or in school reports if the teacher hasn't bothered to watch the swimming lessons?

I have certainly never 'sat in the spectator area reading a book and having a coffee'! The lessons are only 30 minutes usually. How on earth does this teacher swim, get herself dried and dressed and be ready to ensure the children get out of the pool, shower and sort themselves out?!

YANBU - this is utter madness.

treas Sat 24-Nov-12 22:39:27

kenanddreary - thank you. It's nice to hear from someone who understands my reason for questioning this.

kenanddreary Sat 24-Nov-12 22:45:57

No worries treas smile - as a teacher I am not happy to hear this is happening and as a parent I wouldn't be happy about it. As I said it doesn't happen in my LA (which is a very large one!) and we also have to attend swimming health and safety training which certainly doesn't stipulate that swimming lessons are an opportunity for teachers to have their own leisure time!! Anyway - this is still 'directed time' for teachers. It's no different to walking out of school in the middle of the day and heading off to McD's for a quick burger.

I would definitely have a word with the HT and ask them to explain this situation and how if fits with the PE and off-site trips policies. smile

Hope this is helpful.

treas Sat 24-Nov-12 22:57:56

kenanddreary - yes v. helpful. Couldn't quite understand all the too cool for school responses I was getting - though each to their own.

Think if I'd said the children had been left in front of a dvd for an entire lesson there would have been more of a negative response grin

Dominodonkey Sat 24-Nov-12 23:08:40

I think this sounds weird. Different if she was in the pool helping or demonstrating techniques.

treas Sat 24-Nov-12 23:12:27

Dominodonkey - I think it would have been great if she'd been in the pool encouraging the less able swimmers or even working one on one like the private lesson teachers.

Unfortunately, she most definitely was not doing this.

Maryz Sat 24-Nov-12 23:14:53

Presumably during the lesson the children were being supervised by the pool staff.

As long as the teacher was available for supervision on the bus/in the changing rooms it doesn't matter what she does while they are in the pool?

Maryz Sat 24-Nov-12 23:17:33

I doubt very much any teacher would be allowed to actually participate in the teaching of swimming, btw, unless she was a qualified swimming teacher.

I can see why you would be miffed if there was an upset/hurt child who was being ignored. Was that the case? And if a child was hurt/upset, could the TA have got out of the pool and dealt with them?

As a parent helper, I have sat like an idiot on the bus, sat again like an idiot at the poolside, and done a bit of yelling instructing in the changing rooms. I could have swum, it wouldn't have made any difference.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Sat 24-Nov-12 23:18:45

I am well impressed that she was willing to wear her swimming costume where the entire class could see her - for that alone I applaud her grin

treas Sat 24-Nov-12 23:28:43

Maryz - I understand that its boring waiting just in case something happens, which 99% of the time doesn't, but what if something urgent did happen and the TA was unable to assist because she was not dry and fully dressed.

Also the TA is being paid to look after the children, it is her job, she is not a volunteer like you were.

treas Sat 24-Nov-12 23:30:10

ChippingInLovesAutumn - with you on that one smile

Maryz Sat 24-Nov-12 23:32:11

Presumably if something happened she could get out and get dressed?

And if it was too urgent for that you are talking ambulance type emergency, in which case the pool staff could call an ambulance.

It's like seeing one of ds's rugby coaches going for a run during a match. I had no problem with it; some of the other parents thought he should stand on the sidelines. Despite the fact that another coach was the referee, and another was on the sidelines with the subs.

Presumably the teacher was around for urgent emergencies? You know, just until the TA got out of the poos?

And what ChippingIn said. Good for her, imo.

treas Sat 24-Nov-12 23:37:09

Maryz - yes the pool staff would call an ambulance but the TA would have to go to the hospital with the child as the school representative.

Maryz Sat 24-Nov-12 23:43:08

Well, I suspect she would be dressed by the time an ambulance arrived. If she wasn't you could complain then.

treas Sat 24-Nov-12 23:58:49

Of course she would have also had to organise the rest of the class as she was the one in charge in addition to getting changed herself.

kenanddreary Sun 25-Nov-12 09:22:51

Maryz - have you actually read my previous two posts? They address each of the issues you have raised smile. Far better for Treas to look into it now than waiting until an incident occurs and an ambulance has to be called.

bruffin Sun 25-Nov-12 10:06:50

Sorry Keane but don't agree.
Teachers never go at Dcs primary only TAs and parent helpers.
A teacher has never taken notes, why would they it's the swim teachers job to give feedback, not the normal teachers or TAs job to assess their ability.
They all get NC level certificates at the end of the term.

kenanddreary Sun 25-Nov-12 11:16:09

Well you might not agree bruffin but unfortunately you are not able to deny that within the LA I work in it is not the case that teachers stay behind at school - just as I wouldn't dream of denying that in your area teachers do not go with the children. smile. Different authorities have different regulations about this sort of thing.

However - you are stating that TA's and parent helpers go. Fine - the OP is not questioning who goes with the children, just that she is uncomfortable with the those accompanying the children not actually supervising them but instead having their own leisure time. That is what is in question here and not who actually goes along with them.

As far as reports are concerned - I am a little bemused that parents (who in my experience are always very keen to get full written reports about every aspect of their child's education at the end of the year) are not that bothered that their class teachers are not giving feedback on swimming. Giving a level is fine - but there is so much more to it than this!! Do you not want to know about effort, commitment, progress, behaviour etc etc?

bruffin Sun 25-Nov-12 11:44:49

Any report should be from the swim teachers not an unqualified teacher on the side.
Complete waste of a teachers time. I wouldn't be happy with dcs class teacher assessing their swimming.

kenanddreary Sun 25-Nov-12 11:53:39

That's fine - and of course your opinion. IME I have found that parents love to hear about more than simply the actual swimming ability of their children. Just saying! Have been in education a very long time and basing my posts on that.

But I think we are going off point a little here as it wasn't the focus of the original OP.

flow4 Sun 25-Nov-12 12:10:24

If it's an issue of supervision, then actually, one TA is not enough. If there was any kind of incident that required a TA to do anything, then all the other children would be left unsupervised. It MUST be the case that the pool staff undertake full responsibility for the children during the swimming lesson, leaving the TA free to do whatever she likes.

I like the idea that the TA is in the pool. She's setting a really good example of (a) keeping fit, (b) doing what the school is expecting the children to do, and (c) using her spare time constructively. smile

I have never ever had any feedback from any member of staff about any aspect of my children's swimming abilities. I'm quite excited by the idea that I should have done, and if I still had a child this age, I might be asking for it now!

whois Sun 25-Nov-12 12:26:28

What a silly post.

You were being totally U about the TA/teacher being in the pool.

1. She was probably only needed to supervise coach and changing. If she get dried off before the class finishes whats the issue.
2. She isn't there to save lives (life guard instincts kicking in, ha ha!) that's for the instructors and/or lifeguard.
3. Any medical attention will be provided by the trained staff, not the TA. If its something minor like a kid just feeling a bit sick then then need to get dried off anyway so the TA would also have a chance to get died off.
4. She is setting a good example.

I would suggest a grip is got...

kenanddreary Sun 25-Nov-12 12:45:53

Obviously the health and safety guidelines and the risk assessment that absolutely should be in place for every school trip off-site, swimming pool or otherwise, are completely passing some posters by. Incidentally I only ever post on threads where I feel I have adequate knowledge to contribute. But you can of course ignore the opinions of a long qualified and very experienced teacher! smile I can't help thinking that if this was a trip to a museum, for example, and the teacher left to have a cup of tea in the cafe leaving the children with the curator, there would be an outcry. And it wouldn't matter to them whether or not the curator was CRB checked, had vast experience of showing groups around the museum, or knew far more than the teacher about the exhibition. People simply wouldn't be happy!

But I digress...my final point is this: whatever you think of teachers/TAs having their own time to swim during a lesson, the contract for staff in every school in the country is the same - they have to fulfill their hours (directed time) and this is in school time and does not mean they can take a break whenever they feel like it to pursue a leisure activity. Oh what a wonderful thing that would be grin!

Maryz Sun 25-Nov-12 12:51:59

You know ken, your posts really make you sound like a pompous arse.

treas Sun 25-Nov-12 13:00:23

Maryz - You don't need to get personal. You disagree with me and kenanddreary so what. We haven't made personal comments on what we think of your posts so why do you feel justified to be nasty.

treas Sun 25-Nov-12 13:02:40

whois - No not a silly post just asking for peoples opinions, of which there have been several.

Maryz Sun 25-Nov-12 13:10:46

Well actually, ken keeps saying that she is right because she just knows she is right and as a teacher she is right and everyone else is wrong and doesn't know what they are talking about.

Those are the types of opinions that make people sound like pompous arses. She isn't discussion, she is just telling everyone that she is right. Full Stop.

And I disagree with her. I think she isn't right.

I wasn't nasty, I just stated my opinion. Which is what you asked for of course. It isn't my fault you don't like my opinion.

Maryz Sun 25-Nov-12 13:11:25

That should be "She isn't having a discussion" - don't know where that bit of post went confused.

treas Sun 25-Nov-12 13:13:45

Maryz - actually its not that I don't like your opinion, just that I don't necessarily agree with it, however, I find it just as valid as anyone who does agree with my concerns.

Maryz Sun 25-Nov-12 13:15:42

That's fine then, my argument isn't with you. It's with ken, who keeps repeatedly telling everyone their opinions are wrong.

kenanddreary Sun 25-Nov-12 13:41:58

Lol @ Maryz - 'you sound like a pompous arse'!! grin

Maryz - could you just help me out a little by finding the quotes where I 'repeatedly' said 'I know I am right', 'as a teacher I am right', 'everyone else is wrong and doesn't know what they are talking about '...because all I can find are:
'that's fine and of course your opinion'
'IME' (in other words not a universal phenomenon)
'I wouldn't deny that in your LA teachers do not go with the children'
Oh and I have also stated some documented facts about the teaching profession which are simply that - just facts about contracts which we can't get away from.

HTH smile

flow4 Sun 25-Nov-12 14:36:45

I think I can help you out there ken...

"And apart from health and safety...this is a PE lesson and the teacher should be watching and recording notes in order to be able to assess the progress of the children!! How on earth can proper feedback be given to parents either verbally or in school reports if the teacher hasn't bothered to watch the swimming lessons?^

"I have certainly never 'sat in the spectator area reading a book and having a coffee'!"

"It's no different to walking out of school in the middle of the day and heading off to McD's for a quick burger."

"Well you might not agree bruffin but unfortunately you are not able to deny that within the LA I work in it is not the case that teachers stay behind at school"

"Obviously the health and safety guidelines and the risk assessment that absolutely should be in place for every school trip off-site, swimming pool or otherwise, are completely passing some posters by. Incidentally I only ever post on threads where I feel I have adequate knowledge to contribute. But you can of course ignore the opinions of a long qualified and very experienced teacher!

(All my italics)

I don't know about the 'arse' bit, but that definitely sounds pompous to me.

ihearsounds Sun 25-Nov-12 14:47:34

How many members of staff from the school were also present.
The TA CAnnot be the only member of staff there.
So it doesn't really matter what she was doing because there would be other staff from the school to monitor the students.
Maybe the staff take it in turns to have a swim.

treas Sun 25-Nov-12 14:58:39

ihearsounds - actually she was the only member of school staff staff their.

The other swimming teachers are brought in from outside the school - therefore, the TA is the school's only representive.

treas Sun 25-Nov-12 14:59:30

Bollocks - representative

NotaDisneyMum Sun 25-Nov-12 15:08:45

Just to add to the debate - our local school employs people solely to escort DCs when travelling between off-site destinations and school, and they are not required or paid to supervise the DCs while at the off-site location.

Swimming lessons is a classic example of when this happens - the DCs are escorted by the paid escort to walk there, the escort then leaves, returning to escort the DCs back to school an hour later.

So, perhaps 'Miss' was swimming in her own time? wink

EvilTwins Sun 25-Nov-12 15:14:42

Treas, do you KNOW that? Could it be possible that another member if school staff had popped to the loo? Or was talking to the sports centre manager? Or had stepped outside to take a phone call? I would be surprised if only one member of staff had gone on the bus- I teach secondary and we have to have more than one. AFAIK, the accepted ratio is 1:10 for that age group. We have to have 1:15 for KS3 kids, 1:20 for KS4/5.

flow4 Sun 25-Nov-12 15:20:05

Then perhaps that is a problem, treas, because:

- Only a level 3 TA is allowed to be in charge of children without supervision (and most schools don't have many level 3 TAs any more).
- Teachers and management staff, not TAs, are responsible for doing risk assessments.
- Pupil:staff ratios vary according to activity and LA, but I have never come across one that accepts fewer than 2 adults with any group on a trip outside school.
- Many schools are varying and reducing the contracts of TAs, so that they are not contracted or paid for breaks or for non-contact time. It is perfectly possible that she is only being paid to supervise the kids to the poolside, or even just to the building.

So if you really feel YANBU to talk to the head teacher about staff supervision at the pool, I think you should take your focus off this individual incident and TA, and ask some questions about the more general issues.

ihearsounds Sun 25-Nov-12 15:24:50

How many students were at the group?

Also, if say there was a serious accident that required student to go hospital, there would be serious problems. How could she represent the school and go hospital with the student leaving the rest of the group unattended? So the real problem is not about her swimming, but about the wrong ratio for visits outside the school.

flow4 Sun 25-Nov-12 15:32:54

My point too ihear... smile

kenanddreary Sun 25-Nov-12 15:34:04

Thank you for making my points again for me flow - I couldn't have put it better myself! wink.

Still haven't quite managed to find the quotes attributed to me by Maryz though have you? smile

Anyway - life is too short to be embroiled in this debate any longer. My final thought is that despite needing some exercise, I certainly won't be having a quick dip during swimming lessons this week as without a doubt my HT would suspend me.

Treas - good luck with finding some answers if that is what you decide to do smile

flow4 Sun 25-Nov-12 15:39:42

It's good to hear you are so clear about the terms and conditions of your employment, ken. It's more than likely that this TA is too. smile

NotaDisneyMum Sun 25-Nov-12 15:52:54

Sorry - I've missed the bit where the OP confirmed this was definitely a TA

I thought that it was an adult the OP didn't know who the DCs referred to as Miss, and who was partly fulfilling a role previously carried out by a TA that the OP knows.

Maryz Sun 25-Nov-12 22:59:50

Flow summed up your posts quite nicely ken. In most of them you say (and I'm paraphrasing here) "you may have an opinion, but I know what I'm talking about and you are not correct".

Which is the same as pompously telling everyone you think you are righter than they are.


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