Mumsnet Talk

DD2 is 7, she was very firmly in the I Belive camp and I really would have liked it to remain that way for a couple more years.

DD1 (11) got suspicious a couple of years ago, and finally sussed/had it confirmed just after last Christmas, amid dire warnings of no stocking if she blew it for her sister.

The DDs were Skyping with the inlaws last night and the subject of Christmas came up.

MiL said 'oh, you don't still believe in Santa do you <DD2>, you're getting too old for that'. DD asked her what she meant, MiL then told her it was 'all pretend'

I'm ready to kill her

YANBU.

YANBU! I would be furious! Can you backtrack at all and persuade her that MIL was wrong?

cow!
I know some people dot like 'lying' to their kids about Santa, but they're not her children
Cow. Cowcowcow!

Joyless crone. Not sure there's much you can do but I would be tempted to ask her what pleasure she took from disappointing your DD.

My ex mil has done this with dd now aged 9. She told her that at 9 Santa stops visiting. I was very angry as its up to me when the magic ends, not them and dd still believes - even if she doesn't quite one hundred per cent believe we still want to enjoy it for as long as possible.

We have reassured her that mil / nanny has got it wrong and Santa will definitely be coming.

Grrrrr. Yanbu.

She probably knew already but the trouble is that now she 'officially knows' so you'll have to go with the 'Santa being the idea of how Xmas should be' and all that stuff. She'll be over it pretty quickly.

I see why you don't want MIL around if this is the sort of thing she enjoys doing.

Best of luck for the weekend - if it's still on.

That is horrible. It a parenting decision to decide when your child should realise that santa is pretend.

Tell your dd that her grandma is barking and then do as lurked said. How dare she!

Tell your DD that your MIL is wrong and that is why she won't be getting any presents this year, because only people who believe get presents.

What sort of horrible old crone does that to a little girl? I would have to have very strong words with her.

I do believe that any court in the land would find you not guilty of murder under those circumstances. Go for it!

So would I! What a mean thing to say. Why did she feel the need to say that?

I can remember my Grandma constantly 'getting it wrong' and alluding to the fact that my mum was behind the stocking presents. My mum could've throttled her as I recall.

But some people just are incrediably tactless and and have no ability to engage brain and mouth. My mil also for many many, things but even she's never said anything about Father Christmas.

There's a lot of history here, glen. It's probably a retaliatory thing.

There was a mum in our primary school who didn't like lying to her children, so she told them that Santa wasn't real. The three children told everyone and it went through the school like wildfire. Parents were furious. I think most managed to convince their children that he actually was real, but there was mayhem in the school yard for a while.

Very thoughtless and/or mean, I agree. I would tell her that mil is jealous because Santa only comes to children. (Probably true!)

freddiefrog

She's clearly willing to upset the DCs - and what normal adult is not exceptionally careful with children of that age on the subject of Santa. She's demented. Seeing the kids as your Achilles heel. (Which they probably are.)

I wouldn't normally say this but given that she's prepared to do as she's done, would you not actually be better off just cutting contact once and for all?

We've never made a massive deal about Santa, no threats of no stocking if she doesn't behave or anything like that. He just brings a sack of little bits and bobs (new hair bands, knickers, colouring pencils, Top Trump games, etc) to open Christmas morning. The rest of it goes under the tree and is labelled from the gift giver

DD1 came to her own conclusions when she was around 9, and we confirmed it just after last Christmas, no trauma or upset. We had planned to do the same for DD2. She's never asked or questioned it, DD1 was on Google Earth and all sorts, DD2 has never asked us anything so I think she still very firmly believed.

We've fudged it a bit, she wasn't ready not to believe yet if you see what I mean.

cosietoezie yes, weekend is still on unfortunately

Okay. But I would prepare yourself for a difficult weekend and more difficult Xmas visit. I'd have her in a headlock in the kitchen, myself!

Horrible old cow! Give her a lump of coal from Santa for being so naughty

What a cow! I'll hold her down.

PS - she'll likely be back on the Santa topic at the weekend if she sees she's got a result - or sees she's got no result - or because the moon is in the wrong quarter or something. That's why I suggested that you deal with it more broadly and get it out of the way. She probably won't let it go.

Stake her out in an ant hill with jam smeared on her face ,my 9 year old still believes and I hope it lasts for a few more years.
Tell your dd that grandma was a very naughty girl and didn't get any presents and thats why she doesn't believe in FC.

Not only are you NBU, I will gladly do it for you. Bloody hell, who died and made it her job to decide what, and when, your DD2 would believe? What a killjoy cow. Please tell me you're going to have Words. If not actual stabbery.

and yes, can you convince DD2 that granny was being v naughty saying that, and guess who won't be getting any presents this year?

What a horrible thing to do to a child, especially if they are firmly in the believing camp.

If it were me I would be redirecting the conversation straight back round to the believe camp then I would be ringing MIL with a few things to say!

However YABU for wanting to kill MIL!

Has your MIL ever made mistakes that your DD2 might know about? You could go down the route of Granny getting things wrong sometimes, eg she didn't even know that One Direction are a boy band so she might not know about other things that kids know.

You can prove that he is real by tracking him on that NORAD Santa thingy.

www.noradsanta.org/

MIL is just saying that because she knows he won't come to her because she's been saying mean things to people all year? (long shot?)

Tell your dd that grandma was a very naughty girl and didn't get any presents and thats why she doesn't believe in FC.

We did! . She wasn't ready not to believe, so with a bit of fudging from us and her big sister, she's dismissed it as 'silly nanny' for now, but the seed of doubt is there now, she's asked a couple of questions about the mechanics of the big man this morning

DH has given her a massive bollocking over it. Apparently she's very apologetic, she "didn't think kids these days still believed at that age" (yeah right, ). She has been warned.

Still believed at NINE???

Do you live in a cave..?

Seriously do children of that age still believe?

They often want to, Tigress. And if so, who are we to not support that.

I would be seriously looking at the appropriateness of them skyping the children if your MIL's going to come out with crap like this. If she can't use her common sense on something like this, then what else might she say? I think a stiff "you do something like this ever again, you don't get to skype the girls" might be in order.

DD still believes at 7. She wants to believe. She's sussed out the tooth fairy, but likes the idea of Father Christmas ("Santa" - bleee!) and given her current propensity to melt down <please God it's a phase> I find him a useful method of behaviour modification. So Ner.

There was one horrendous little gobshite of a child in her class a few years ago who went round telling everyone there was no Father Christmas, no Tooth Fairy, no Easter Bunny and no God. As it is a Catholic school this last one got looked upon rather dimly so thankfully the other children (4-5 at the time) dismissed everything else she said as well.

What's wrong with wanting a little magic in your life? It doesn't equate to living in a cave...

I know children aged 9 to 10 who (claim to) believe. I find it slightly freaky that kids nudging puberty can go all dreamy about it. And are still hovered over by mothers terrified their child might stop believing in Santa.

I'm guessing the old religion cliche is at work here - if you don't believe in something, you'll believe in anything. But to push and push your kids to go on believing in Santa as their periods start...

"Look darling! Santy brought you condoms and a chlamydia testing kit!"

Seriously do children of that age still believe?

I think they either pretend to believe for their parent's sake or else believe because they don't think that their parents would deceive them.
neither is healthy IMO.

I would take her down. Down to China Town.

YANBU

FWIW I still believed at nine despite school friends telling me otherwise I think that was because the stocking was always placed on the end of my bed without waking me up, which was part of the Father Christmas story in our house and the first time I woke up during that process I was 22 (didn't believe by then but it was still a bit gutting to see my Mum sneak in... although she cared less by that point and was doing it at 6am rather than 2am when I was definitely sound asleep ).

I said "live in a cave" because I can't believe that a child of nine who lives in the real live world would have escaped the knowledge that Santa is a bit of a great big lie. It wasn't meant to be insulting. Am just AMAZEBALLS

I still believed & wanted to believe at your DD2's age.

On Christmas Day my nan told me that Father Christmas didn't exist and it was my dad. To be honest I was just confused - I thought she meant my dad was the real Santa, and spent Christmas Eve taking presents to all the children in the world.

Admittedly it was all the more confusing as my dad had dressed up as Santa for years at social clubs, at which I told the other children that he was my dad (as I knew). So my nan's revelation actually convinced me that my dad was the real thing!

I think killing her would be a bit extreme. Maybe bit of a kicking?

Seriously though,why would she say that? Was she just being thoughtless?

Fuck off, man! I still believed until I was like 11. I honestly did.

I believe you Bups.

It explains a lot.

HULLYEASTERGULLY, some of us do live in caves on here on Mumsnet I can't believe that you are being this insensitive. Usually you are a thoughtful poster but this was misjudged.

Just because the only magic YOU had in your life was when you sprinkled your cornflakes with glitter just so you could do a sparkly fart, Hully. Don't be jealous.

Hully I get your point, but people believe in god, despite children dying. Believe me it is not comforting to hear that "God has them in a better place" when your child dies

I'm not trying to say god doesn't exist - it's personal belief... so I see nothing wrong in believing in a benign figure such as Santa... heck I wish I still believed in him

You forgot the SHS, Buppy you primordial cave-dweller you

I didn't say there was anything WRONG with it, just that it was astonishing.

Hully DS stopped believing at about 9 but went along with it for a couple of years because he thought we believed! He knows now obviously but happily goes along with it for the sake of his sisters, in fact I think he may be trying to convince himself that he does exist!
OP YANBU. Not her place to say anything no matter what the backstory is.

There are a couple of kids in DD1's year 6 class who believe (or at least they let people think they do). I always said I'd knock it on the head before secondary school, if they hadn't already worked it out for themselves.

DD1 had suspicions in year 4, had it confirmed in year 5. Is now keeping her gob shut so as not to spoil it for her sister.

But DD2, very definately believed. She's a very young 7 year old, pretty much all her friends believe, so she's never thought to question it.

Will rethink Skyping with Nanny & Grandad, if she can't keep her mouth shut. You'd think you could load the dishwasher and clean up the kitchen while they're Skyping their grandparents without issue really.

DH has had words

Oh, and we do call him Father Christmas, I'm typing on my phone and Santa is a lot less letters

That's a rather weird post, Corygal - I don't think anyone's 'pushing and pushing' their child to believe, if my DD decides of her own accord to stop believing that's her business and it really won't be a big deal. Afaik we all stopped believing about 8 or 9 in our house but we still got stockings til we were 16! (but that was the limit of Fr Christmas's responsibility in our house, presents were from family)

I think what the OP is objecting to (quite rightly) is the MIL taking it upon herself to disabuse a SEVEN year old (I don't know where this business of being near puberty has come from) who was quite happy believing.

Sparkly farts must mean horrendously messy pants, no?

I definitely still believed at 7.. even though I had found the presents that were hidden in the wardrobe long before Xmas Day... it didnt stop me from spending Xmas Eve staring out of my bedroom window just in case I saw anything in the sky!!!

OP, YANBU - but only because losing granny and santa at the same time might be a bit much for your DD to cope with.

Silly granny. My DD stopped believing in santa at <6 but she understood that you keep up the pretence for friends who still do believe it (she was a little more robust on the issue of god but learned the 'some people believe' mantra quickly). If small children can understand about not taking away other peoples magic, an adult should be able to do it.

Your MiL needs this poem which includes this bit:

"What was beheld by Jabez Dawes?
The fireplace full of Santa Claus!
Then Jabez fell upon his knees
With cries of 'Don't,' and 'Pretty Please.'
He howled, 'I don't know where you read it,
But anyhow, I never said it!'
'Jabez' replied the angry saint,
'It isn't I, it's you that ain't.
Although there is a Santa Claus,
There isn't any Jabez Dawes!"

I think "It isn't I, its you that ain't" is one of my favourite lines ever

I meant YABU of course. Duh.

Clarification - I was discussing issue via some people I know IRL, not the poster's on DC. I still think that local family's weirder than me...

YANBU. What an old hag.

What a mean lady . Your poor dd. nobody but you has that right.

OK, I won't kill her.

How about itching powder in her knicker drawer when she comes to stay next month?

Send her a lump of coal in the post from Santa

I never believed in Santa, Christmas is still magical.

It's no big deal!!!

Trees, fairy lights, tinsel, presents and too much chocolate. Oh and more fairy lights.

Bearded gentlemen are totally optional.

I was never brought up to believe that Father Christmas really physically came into our house and really physically put presents into our stockings. Thus there was never a horrible realisation that we had been lied to and, given my nature I would definitely have thought of it this way, being made fools of for years. It destroys your trust in your parents, that sort of thing, IMO. However, I was never told, and didn't tell my own DCs, that he didn't exist. That's a different matter entirely.

I actually had to tell DS1 at the age of 6 that Santa does not really come down the chimney, because the idea frightened him! I said he was the spirit of giving, inspired by Saint Nicholas who was ever so real, and nothing ever to be frightened of. DS3, on the other hand, was insistent at 8 that it was so really real, despite his brothers being very scornful whenever I wasn't there to stop them. DS3 didn't quite land on Planet Earth until his late teens, though I'm pleased to say he has not only landed now but is in a fair way to conquering it.

My childhood was stuffed with fantasy, wonder, fairy tales and (my mother being as she was) science fiction! I don't feel deprived at all.

All that said, it was definitely wrong of MIL to come out and say it in that way to your DD. It's over-riding your parenting. DD would be much better off working it out herself and feeling terribly clever about it

I know kids of 11 whose parents still pretend. I am not sure if the 11 year old still believes but he cracks on he does.

How sad your MIL wanted to stop the magic. I'd be furious. Itchy nether regions would be a good revenge.

My 8 year old DD still firmly believes is Santa. She has, in the past, been told by other children that he doesn't exist, but we just laugh and tell her how ridiculous they're being, and that they probably won't be getting anything from him then. She's a very bright child but she excepts that quite happily and continues to believe (which I'm certainly glad about). My 12 year old DD cottoned on at 10, but she's very good at helping us to keep it going for our 8 year old.

I think parents who 'don't like to lie' to their children about Santa are a bit mean. It's part of the magic of being a child!

And freddiefrog, your mil sounds horrible, I'd be fuming!

YANBU I'd string the mean old cow up! No need to say anything like that!

I'm actually glad now that my own grandparents went out of their way to treat me like a small child well into my teens! (they were still asking me what santa was bringing me when I was about 16!)

Is there anyway you could brazen this out? like "silly granny forgot to take her pills again! ofcourse santa exists! i think someone will be getting coal in her stocking eh, GRANNY?!" followed by laserbeam glare granny's way. This is the sort of thoughtless stuff my MIL will not doubt come out with (she has form). Luckily she is a tad thick daft anyway so hoping I can brazen it out exactly as above should the need arise.

I would send her a Christmas card with the message.

"You told your gd santa wasn't real. I will remember that when I chose your care home".

Also MNHQ can you please link to the other thread where the boys at school were telling someone's son santa wasn't real.

Not wanting to one up but it could be worse. When I was a child my aunt and uncle split up, just before leaving uncle cunt told his three and five year old that santa would not be comming that year. He was wrong.

Children go along with 'believing' long after they actually believe because it is part of the fun. But unless your child is at school with children who have NO older brothers and sisters then it's pretty hard to keep it going as a real hard line belief.

Pretend believing and tradition is just as much fun.

OP's MIL should not have been unequivocal like that.

I went to a midnight mass at the local CofE some years ago. Lots of families and smallish children there. During the short 'talk' as opposed to sermon, the female vicar included something about Father Xmas not being real. I nearly walked out on the spot - even though I don't have children. I thought that appalling and potentially ruined children's Christmas.

I've told this story before but DD1s English class were discussing myths and legends in Y9 (so 13-14) and the teacher listed out some mythical characters "and of course Father Christmas". One girl there still genuinely believed, and ended up in floods of tears because of it. Thankfully the class were mainly nice kids, and no-one teased her, they all thought it was quite sweet albeit weird.

My 7 year old still believes in Santa, and the Tooth Fairy. If anyone tells him they are not real, I would go mental. Nobody elses place to do that other than myself and his father.

He has started asking questions, wanting to know how Santa knows whether he has been good or not etc, so I think it won't be long till he figures it out for himself and that is how it should be. If he however still believes age 10/11 then it is his parents job to tell him the truth, no one elses.

I would be fuming OP. Glad your partner as had words!!

my 8 year old just worked it out this year but still wants to believe so we still are planning to do all the santa stuff still, just like we do for the other two older ones. I would kill MIL. I like the giving of coal idea too

When I first read the OP I was thinking that I would probably kill my ML too, having read the entire thread I think some people are slightly overeacting. Yes, I'd be annoyed that someone had let the cat out of the bag, but does anyone really think that this lady thought "I wonder what I can do to upset my grand-daughter today"? I was never told about Father Christmas and was probably the little shit that told some of you that he was made up but I was determined that MY own children would have that "magic" feeling. They all (except my 4 yo) learnt at various ages that it wasn't real and it doesn't seem to affected them. I always said that if they asked me outright then I would tell them the truth which is what I have done. I certainly think that when I was a child most kids had worked it out by the time they were 7 and I'm not THAT surprised that a grandmother would have assumed that her grand daughter knew. By all means try to repair the damage, but in your shoes I'd be more tempted to tell her the truth. I do think there's a big difference between allowing them to believe a bit longer and blatantly lying to them, especially when that entails telling them that their grandmother is the liar.

in fact the older ones love the wanting to believe bit loads too. we track him on NORAD and do the mince pie and a carrot thing, even glitter in oats on the drive! they love it and one turns 18 next year! hell i love it!

There's a (very) long previous thread on this MIL Justforlaughs. Some of us may have read that and therefore be reacting more strongly than others.

All the 9 year olds I know still believe. It seems to be year 5 ish when they stop. We always told ours that Santa was the spirit of Christmas who caused the magical feeling that is always in the air at Christmas. When dd was doubting we told her that Grandma still believed so it became a shared secret and she carried on helping to fill Grandmua's stocking for years :-)

justforlaughs if I was being charitable, I would say the that MiL had assumed DD knew, but given the conversation they were having it was obvious that DD2 did in fact believe and it was clear by DD's reaction to her first comment, when MiL could have made a joke about it or back tracked a bit, rather than spelling it out to her.

I don't think it was a deliberate attempt to upset her granddaughter, more completely thoughtless over something that is none of her business's and not her place to tell DD about in the first place. We were going to tell DD2 when she asked off her own bat.

This wasn't an innocent slip up. DD was talking about what she was asking Santa for and MiL told her she was too old to believe in Santa, then spelt it out when DD asked her for clarification

I don't want to outright lie, then in a couple of years time have to have the conversation that nanny was right all along, so we've fudged it a bit for now.

She was quite happy believing, she never questioned it, never voiced any suspicions.

We do have a lot of history with MiL, so it does colour my judgement sometimes I do admit.

Sounds a lot like my FIL who turned up last year a few days before Christmas and said "Do you still believe in Santa?" to Ds2 who was ten. He still did a little, though he knows people at school say it's just your parents. I thought FIL was an utter twat and he was only doing it to be difficult. As he is a devout Roman Catholic if the shove-it-down-everyone's-throat variety I was sorely tempted to respond "Do you still believe in God?"

What a cruel thing to do.

Could you get your hands on a lump of coal for your MIL's present?

I think your MIL is lucky its not yet possible to punch someone over skype. I'm fuming on your behalf

In fact you are very charitable, freddie. Much nicer than I would be.

Ds (12 now - 11 last Christmas) still "believes" .

I think that part of the "magic" for him has now become the pretending.

We've also got The Polar Express on DVD and have discussed the fact that "the magic is there for as long as you want it to be."

YANBU

DD2 is 7 and still believes, if she asks the question, I will be honest, but whilst the magic is there, why change it?

Quite a lot of about older children still believing, DD1 (11) got told by me this year, as I was concerned about teasing at secondary school. All children grow up at different rates, isn't it great for them to enjoy the magic of childhood as long as possible?

Anyway, you can visit Santa in Lapland, so he must be real, FFS!

It sounds like you are having this stupid and thoughtless old witch to stay for the weekend soon. I would be seriously tempted to cancel - or at least let her know that I was tempted to cancel because I was so angry.

I believed absolutely until I was 10 and I only found out then because my Mum thought I ought to know before I went to secondary school. I was the youngest child and my elder sisters wanted to keep me believing as long as possible as it was more fun for them so they always had lots of fantastic explanations as to how it all worked.

My DD had guessed by the time she was 6. Which was a bit of a disappointment but once she clearly knew I could see there was no point lying. I would always be very, very careful around someone else's child though.

Glad your DD2 has dismissed her gran, it would be a shame for her to stop believing at this time of year. Your MIL on the other hand is being horrible.

Love the poem Takver...have bookmarked it.

Ah well OP, if your MIL is anything like mine then kill her!

It's not that unusual for the kids round here to believe up to around 10 if they haven't got a miserable guts granny to spoil it for them and DD1 has mentioned a couple of her year 6 class mates still believe.

DD1 questioned it a lot in the run up to the Christmas she'd just turned 9, fudged it a bit as it was so close to Christmas, then she was hedging her bets never asked again until we confirmed it just after Christmas last year (just turned 10) but it was obvious she hadn't really bought it the year before.

DD2 has never said a word about it. Until this morning had never questioned how FC delivered all those gifts on one night, or how reindeers can fly, etc. We would have left her to work it out for herself (unless she was about to start high school or something)

DD1's been fab about keeping her gob shut, and tried to speak over MiL on Skype to shut her up (DH & I were pottering around doing other stuff, so didn't really cotton on to what she'd said until she said it), she no longer has that magic, but part of the fun for her now is keeping it alive for her sister.

We'll still have FC long after they both stop believing, pretending to be asleep and not giggling at mum trying to deliver presents on the half a bottle of Baileys she's consumed peeling the Christmas dinner veg is part of the fun. We always had a sack of stuff from Father Christmas, up until I left home. My Mum still does them for my brother, DH and I now if we visit at christmas

I believed until 9 or 10 because I wanted to. I would have been very upset to have found out in this was from my Nann. The way he has said it implies your DD is silly for believing. Very mean.

I would be !

Blood typos! Sorry.

I think if your MIL has made a genuine cock-up that's easier to forgive than if you think she came out with that on purpose.

I would still be fuming though.

I chose to believe until I was 14 when my mum got thoroughly sick of sneaking around at silly o'clock in the morning and told me in no uncertain terms to get over it !

11 and believing in FC is so wrong imo but I know of friends who think I'm mad!

If it hadn't have been MIL it would have been someone in the playground - especially at 7.

I don't understand believing in FC, we brought up ds to believe in the 'true' story of how a nice man helped people but no that a real man comes down your chimney, that seems utterly bizarre to me

It is part of the magic and innocence of childhood. My daughter being 13 sussed it out a couple of years ago,but has kept it going for my 10 year old son (ok he may have worked it out by now but not letting on..his choice). I would have been so upset for them if some ratbag had spoilt the magic for them for no good reason! My sister has never let her children believe in FC (which I dont get, cos she loved all that as a kid) but she has always respected our little fantasy and never let on bless her.

I would tell your DD that your MiL doesn't exist and that it's all been a bad dream. Like in Dallas

Proposition Joe

As a "devout" Roman Catholic myself I think that's a great response!

Nothing wrong with belieiving in or wanting to believe in Santa for as long as anyone wants to - Im 42 and I still believe! Lots of my happy memories of my Christmas when younger was looking in the sky hoping to see his sleigh and the excitement of feeling a full stocking on Christmas morning, so glad my own boys have had a chance to feel all of it to. DS2 is 10 and believed last year but dont think so this year. And contrary to the opinions of a few scrooges I have neither been traumatised when I figured out my own aprents had lied to me or upset at the thought of a man with a beard coming in the house to leave me presents.

Could you get your hands on a lump of coal for your MIL's present?

Excellent, Narked.

I've heard that is one of only three things you get sacked for straight if you say it on TV! Fact!

Hell to the no! I'd happily kill mine for a damn site less lol

yanbu, just make sure you clean up the mess afterwards and dispose of the body properly.

I would be beyond livid tbh.

Christmas can still be 'magical' without believing in FC. Does Christmas suddenly become shit once you know about FC then? Some of the most magical Christmases I have had have been pre ds as an adult.

We still do the Santa thing. 16yr old DD1 is openly scornful lol.

DS1 is 11 and a bit baffled. I think he doesn't believe anymore, but he seems worried that I might still believe. I think he's wondering whether to break me the bad news.

DD2 is nearly 2 yrs, so I want to keep the magic going.

Shocking that someone would tell a kid there's no Santa

Kendodd

What re the other two?

Pag

2. There is no god
3. Jim'll fix it for you

I think that by year 2 the playground rumour mill leaves no doubt about FC's true identity. Whatever parents may wish to believe.

Although I did have to tell my parents when I was in my mid 20s that actually, I knew that FC wasn't real, and I didn't need a stocking.

And in answer to your original AIBU, murder is probably a bit extreme in this instance.

Both my boys stopped wanting to visit FC when they got into juniors. We have never had THE CONVERSATION and still leave a mince pie and glass of whiskey out even if we've forgotten to eat it until Christmas morning a couple of times They are 13 and 10

They don't believe but it's still fun to have the traditions

Still, Bah Humbug to your MIL

at jim'll fix it.

"And contrary to the opinions of a few scrooges I have neither been traumatised when I figured out my own aprents had lied to me or upset at the thought of a man with a beard coming in the house to leave me presents."

That was me. I am sure you weren't traumatised etc. I, however, would have found it very hard to take, having been a very literal-minded child, and I can only say that DS1 was upset at the thought of a man with a beard etc, although it didn't bother his brothers. I think he got the "it's really true he does come down your chimney" thing from school, so I guess you could argue that if only I had taught him to believe in and love Santa he wouldn't have been worried. But I would sneer if you did.

I am still fairly literal minded as an adult and actually have quite a problem with the way nearly everyone happily lies to their children, but I have to accept that the majority don't seem to suffer from it in any way! I like how some of the older ones, as reported on this thread, worked out the truth ages ago but like to collude in pretending they believe. That's rather sweet, and if I do have any problem with it, it's my problem. Probably.

God, I would detonate like a tactical nuclear missile if my MIL (or any adult) deliberately told my DDs this (they still firmly believe, even at 9 & 8).

Tell your DD, that some adults (like MIL) have been very naughty/stupid/nasty - and that's why they no longer believe in Santa, because Santa has wiped their memories of him, and they no longer get any presents from him, either.

Tell your DD that everyone should feel very sorry for Granny, but that it's her own fault for being so bad earlier in life.

Ridiculous. We all still believe in Father Christmas and I'm 45. Silly old boot.

Exactly. We still leave out a mince pie and a carrot. Mine are all teenagers. Bring it on.

For the avoidance of doubt, however, I still think the MIL was an old misery and was probably doing it as a Statement. You have my permission to kill her.

Kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiilllll her.

I'm happy to provide you with a cast-iron alibi OP

YANBU, I'd be fuming!

I still remember the shock of being told (too early) that the tooth fairy wasnt real...

What possessed the miserable old Grinch to do that?
I'm usually on the side of the much maligned MIL's, but in this case, yes, kill her.

We told ours that Santa only comes to those who believe in him.

Obviously, Mil does not and Santa does not come to her, therefore she believes he does not exist.

Unfortunately, mine would not deny the existence of Santa at 18 and I had to ban him, from the sheer exhaustion with all the shopping and creeping about etc for years.

unbeliveable its awful, i dont even like people even suggesting he might not be real - even putting any thought that he might not be real at all in her mind..
dreadful

Oh you'd all hate my dd then.

3 weeks ago we took dd aged 4 to the O2 to watch Madagascar 3. Before the film started there was a snippet of The Rise of the Guardians with Hugh jackman introducing it. Anyway as the snippet was coming to an end dd turned to me and said (very loudly so I could hear over the sound) "Mummy, that's not real is it" as the music came to an end she was still in shouty mode and said "That's not real, because Father Christmas isn't real". The cinema was in silence and I heard a few gasps at the back. I was horrified and just slunk down in my chair whilst DH sat there laughing.

Fakebook sounds like a scene from Outnumbered!

Tell your DD that MiL is rather grumpy about Santa after getting put on the naughty list for an unspecified but obviously terrible reason.

Oh, how could she!

I like this route: Has your MIL ever made mistakes that your DD2 might know about? You could go down the route of Granny getting things wrong sometimes, eg she didn't even know that One Direction are a boy band so she might not know about other things that kids know.

Ha ha ha ha ha!

I don't know, in our house... I'm in my 50s and still believes in the magic (of Christmas). As I say to my strapping teenage kids, you never know... (Bless them, they never let onto their younger siblings if and when disabused)

Have only read the op do don't know this has been said but maybe a few words of granny doesn't believe in magic / everyone who believes will have a visit from santa... The film 'Polar Express' Ia great for a doubter, especially if they can hear the bell works great on an 11 yr old doubter who heard the bell and believed for one more year