WIU to knock this kid off his bike with my car?(148 Posts)
Ok first of all, I didn't. But I wanted to. I really, really wanted to and I'm horrified at how close I came to actually doing it.
I'm shocked at myself and think maybe I have issues and this was not a normal, reasonable or healthy thought.
Sorry but to give you the full facts this may be a bit long.
A few months ago I was driving home, running a little late for school pick up. I hate to park on the school road so I always park a few minutes walk away. To get to the car park you need to drive down a very long and narrow road, it only allows for one car to get through and so you often have to pull into a gap to let oncoming vehicles past.
As I turned the corner to go down this road there was a lad on a bike, riding no handed very, very slowly while texting. I should point out that while 2 cars cannot comfortably drive alongside past each other there is enough room to overtake a bicycle (it leads to a popular cycle route so this is very common). I hung back admittedly feeling a bit impatient and muttering to myself about lack of respect, upstart thinking he was king of the road but certain that he'd send his message or whatever before moving to let me overtake him.
He didn't so halfway down the road with an eye on the time I beeped my horn. He moved over.
Well I thought he was moving over to let me past.
He wasn't he was moving slightly over but not enough that I could safely pass him.
He stopped at the front of my car, spat on windscreen then came to side and used (I think) his phone to violently bang against my passenger window.
As he was banging his bike fell away from him and I sped off.
It terrified me. The look in his eyes was one of pure hatred and rage-I'm certain that if I hadn't been behind a glass window he'd have hurt me. I had my baby in the back seat on the passenger side and had visions of glass shattering over him. It really shook me up. I cried when a mum on the playground asked if I was ok.
I've seen this lad a few times since. He's old enough to have left school, I'd guess 17.
Last night when returning home I saw him on the pavement, on his bike. Again he was riding none handed and on his phone.
I was alongside and knew that we would arrive at the bottom of my road at the same time.
I knew he wouldn't check the traffic.
I knew that I could turn into the road and 'accidently' knock him off his bike.
He was wearing all black clothing, no lights on bike and it was very dark.
I even locked my car doors in anticipation of him jumping up from road to attack me.
As it was I hit my brakes as he glided past in front of my car without so much of a headturn to see the vehicle that was a second away from hitting him.
I'm disgusted to say I'm disappointed that I stopped. I've replayed the scenario over and over all night and kick myself for not hitting him! I have a son almost his age fgs! How can I have even considered this? Have come so close to doing it? Be annoyed at myself for having not done it?
Can any of you say you'd have behaved the same way?
WTF your considering hurting him on purpose but you lock the doors in case he attacks you! You are the violent, dangerous nutter in the situation, the kid might be a bit of a wanker but he at least isn't contemplating murder!
You need to get help with anger management driving around with an attitude like that could lead you to do something that lands you in prision for a long time.
If you had knocked him off his bike you may well have been prosecuted. I'm guessing the area was lit up as you did see him, so even though he was in the wrong for not having lights the police could have argued you should have seen him (and you did). If a car is turning into a side road its the car's responsibilty to check for bikes before turning, you can't overtake a bike and then then cut them up by turning left.
But you didn't do it so well done.
I can see why the thought of doing it is tempting when he's been such a little scrote. But you could have killed him if you had done.
You should have reported him to the police at the time of the 1st incident.
I can see why you feel angry and frustrated but you need to put that to one side when you get behind the wheel. If you think your emotions are interfering with your judgement as a driver, then please pull over, take some deep breaths, count to ten or do whatever it takes to make the red mist disappear.
I assume you contacted the police after the first incident?
Contact the police because someone banged on your car window?
Yanbu to fantasize about teaching him a lesson. He has frightened you and is endangering himself.
You already know that actually hitting him is not going to happen and would be criminal a well as UR.
It's ok to think it but don't do it! If he out that careless I am afraid he will get flattened without your help.
His behaviour was disgusting and he may well be known to the police anyway. I would report him. If you're worried about repercussions you may be able to give an anonymous statement. I would phone your neighbourhood police for a chat.
you kicked yourself for not hitting him
Are you really that unstable? I have a temper and I can get terrible road rage but no way on earth would I think about knocking someone of their bike.
Seriously you need to calm down.
(Reporting it may keep your violent thoughts in check!)
No, can't say I have ever wished that I could've killed someone.
Yes, I get angry with drivers thinking that they are 'King of the Road' because they can cause real damage but cyclists? No.
I would guess your extreme reaction came from some sort of protective mechanism as your baby was in the car.
No, I can't say I have behaved in the same way, ever. I have wanted to get out of my car and give teenagers a large helping of my opinion though.
The thing is, you still want to knock him off his bike. Do you think you might actually do it in the future?
Fear is doing this to you. I'm not sure what what you can do to get over this.
I think your thoughts/fantasies are fairly normal and I suspect that if people were more honest about feelings of rage and frustration more would admit "murderous thoughts". I also suspect some of this is about protecting your baby.
The thing that is concerning is that you say you are disappointed that you stopped. Are you really? If you really do regret not hurting him, you need to seek some help/support.
I would be terrified if I ever, even for a second contemplated hitting a young cyclist with my car.
That's quite honestly one of the most horrible, disturbing things I've ever read.
It's called an Intrusive Thought and they are very disturbing but not uncommon.
I have them. It makes you feel like you're going nuts - but you're not.
The important thing is that you know you would NEVER act on them.
First off a cyclist has as much right to the road as you. If you can safely pass them do so, but there is no legal obligation for a cyclist to allow you to overtake.
Secondly, wishing to run a cyclist off their bike with the probability of injuring them makes you sound like a complete arse. Go look at your son now and consider that someone has thought about doing it to him. Nice thought? No.
Act like a fucking grown up and try to exercise some caution and restraint.
I understand your anger and frustration. But it's not your job to teach him a lesson and live with the guilt forever. Leave karma to take care of it, sooner or later someone will knock him off. In the mean time I'd put a call in to your local bobby
People forget driving a car is the same as having a loaded weapon
I didn't report it because...well would would I say?
Some kid was riding his bike along the road without moving and when I beeped my horn he smashed against my window and scared the shit out of me and I honestly thought he would've hurt me given half the chance?
And the police would have done what exactly?
I am not usually an angry person. And tbh the scariest thing about last night was how calm I was!!! I noticed him on the pavement parallel to me. I envisioned what 'could' happen when we got to the road at the same time. I thought to myself "there is no street light at the end of road, it's dark, he won't check, it'll be a total accident' Except it wouldn't have been. I hit the brake. I'm glad that a part of me was more sensible. That could've been my DS!!
But yes, to my total shame and for reasons I cannot get my head round I feel regret that I stopped the car. I think I felt that way more so because he was totally oblivious/nonchalant. He cannot have failed to notice that he was mere inches away from being hit.
I do think I have a problem. That cannot be normal and the responses prove that nobody else would have even considered doing anything like that in any way whatsoever
I don't think it's normal to actually regret not knocking a teenager off his bike.
The fact you are still regretting it now is worrying.
I think if I were thinking of killing someone with my car, I'd leave the car at home and seek professional help!
The boy sounds a bit of a dick, TBH, and what he did was very wrong, but it is not worth of being run over!
FFS woman you need help!
Of course you would not be unreasonable.
Cyclists are fair game in is country.
All motorists, on the other hand, are good, upstanding, law abiding citizens, none of whom would ever consider texting while driving, or giving in to bouts of road rage when challenged by another road user.
Unacceptable - From a psychological perspective, this has brought something up for you that has nothing to do with him as an individual. The strength of emotions, the fixation on it for some months - both of those tell me that it is worth exploring what he has triggered. It is possible that what you saw was a side of yourself that you find hard to accept - and in fact your death-wish feelings would confirm this.
I seem to be saying this so often nowadays, but I would definitely consider therapy to get to the bottom of this. I'm not saying he isn't a threat; I have no idea about that. What I am saying, though, is that he mirrored to you something that feels very threatening and which has its origin in you, not him. This is something we all face to a greater or lesser degree at times, and talking to someone who can help you deal with it can not only put it in perspective, but it might also help you discover more about yourself that could be entirely valuable.
Well I must admit I wouldn't have reported the first incident to the police as I don't think I'd have been upset about it like the OP was. Life's too short to get worked up. My take on it was you met an arsehole who was acting like a twat but no damage was done. I'd comfort myself with the thought he probably has a shitty life and will get his cumpuppence for something soon.
However if someone did want to report such an incidence to the police it might make them feel better and lessen the chances of them knocking someone off their bike. I know the police aren't there to make you feel better but I do think that if they wanted to the police could find something to charge someone with for banging on people's cars and spitting. The problem is no witnesses and you don't know who he is so the chances of them been able to do something I guess are slim. But if he does similar again then yes I would report it. The police may well know who he is and recognise a description. People shouldn't be allowed to intimidate people in such a manner, even if all the police can do is warn them off.
I think some of the respondents on this thread are more hysterical and unhinged than the OP.
I agree with Hecate and BelleDame. Have any of you who are screeching that the OP sounds unhinged never had a fleeting though about giving a bad/rude/annoying person a good crack across the face? You'd never do it, but so what? It was a thought and it stayed inside her head.
Viva is right about reporting the incident. It was threatening behaviour and that dickhead lad needs to be taught some manners; just not by knocking the wee knob off his bike. He's just a little twat OP, don't squish him, report him.
If it was a fleeting thought in the heat of the moment, fair enough.
But the OP is still, the next day, regretting the fact that she didn't knock a boy of his bike with her car.
That's not a heat of the moment thing, is it?
I've thought about smashing the face in of the nasty girl who's bullying my dd. obviously I wouldn't in a million years do it. There is a big difference between fantasising about teaching someone a lesson and actually doing it. Only the op knows if she thinks there's a risk in the future of doing it.
I think a more qualified person wouldn't be labelling you as drastic as some osyers here have.
This child is vile. Somebody else might knock him off his bike at the rste he is going and it wouldn't be deliberate. If you had commited this criminal and moral offence your life would be much harder because as you've already demonstrated you have morals, values and are aware it is a crime.
You would not rest easy after knowing what you had done. You know this. How could ypu teach your baby right from wrong when dealing with anger.
Let it go and lock your doors.
The prick will learn, by another means. It is all you can hope for, such as his bike riding skills is noticed by a copper
Bobbly, she regrets not doing it! That is unhinged!
OP, the kid sounds like an arrogant nobhead, the sort of kid I would visualize squashing too. Wouldn't seriously consider it in real life...but no harm in fantasizing!!!!
Mmm, I know MsElle. Maybe that is an issue. It's probably because she has to see him acting like a bell end on the roads every few days or so while she is driving.
It is a fantasy you have held onto, that is all. You want your baby's Mummy in prison? Your life ruined. Your reputation. It would make headline news. Is he worth it? No.
I would probably have had the same thoughts as you OP.
It happened to me the other day. Only it was DS's father, who has not seen his son since he was 4 weeks old. I was pulling out of the village shop's car park, and he rode across the entrance on his bike. He didn't recognise me, as I've got a different car now.
Just the feeling that I could have stomped on the accelerator and totalled the twat made me feel very, very good.
Of course YABU. But you know it.
So long as this stays as a fantasy inside your head and doesn't obsess you, don't worry about it too much.
If you ever suspect you might act on it, get help urgently.
If you want to explore why you feel like that, you could get some not-so-urgent counselling or psychoanalysis. I would guess that you are afraid of something else entirely, and turning that fear into anger, and then 'projecting' it onto the boy... But that's just a guess...
Mostly I suggest you do something nice and stress-busting, regularly, to help you feel calmer and happier
Hecate that's a really interesting link. Maybe I will go see someone though because as it's been said I feel regret that I stopped my car and that just isn't right.
I'm glad I stopped my car but also I'm not IYSWIM. I suppose in my head I thought I'd hit him at slow speed, enough to scare the shit out of him like he did to me but not enough to hurt him seriously...guess that's the thing I had in my head at the time and why I locked the doors in anticipation of him getting up and being livid.
I know exactly how awful what I'm saying is. I know how wrong it would've been to have not stopped the car. I also know that it a)wouldn't have made me feel better, would probably have actually made me feel worse and b)it wouldn't have had any bearing on whether or not this lad acted in a threatening or intimidating way to anyone else ever.
Thank you for all the responses.
Oh and I haven't spent every single waking moment fantasising about hurting this kid.
I also haven't spent a lot of time going over the first incident.
I've seen him a few times since it happened from a distance and when I have seen him I recall what happened and feel upset, nauseous and a bit cross. Shortly afterwards I forget all about it and carry on with my own life.
I don't (thankfully) drive around planning to 'get' him when and if I see him. I don't plan to hunt him down or anything ridiculous like that.
I posted to offload a little and to see if, as I suspect, that my reaction especially the thoughts of regret mean I should probably go speak to somebody in RL about this.
I can assure you that I will not, ever, do what I'd considered doing last night. Never, ever.
wow op you sound horrid.
I do hope you give up driving
He has behaved like an arse.
He has no right to make you feel afraid.
But you can't murder an arse, however much you'd like to.
I suppose I would chat to the police about the situation & how intimidated you still feel. It might help give you boundaries for what would be appropriate response, & confidence to find a way back to feeling secure.
I have been in a similar situation, and just sat behind the cyclist, or kids walking in the middle of the road, driving slowly, until they pulled over or another car came in the opposite direction as well and they damned well had to.
I've also been shouted at by an adult cyclist for not overtaking them and sitting behind them on a narrow road when there was no room to safely overtake. So I was reprimanded for not knocking him off his bike
What I'm saying is there are twats out there, best to ignore them.
I can assure you that I will not, ever, do what I'd considered doing last night. Never, ever.
And that's the difference. And you are feeling remorse about the thoughts otherwise you wouldn't have posted on here. The regret could be part of the intrusive thought?
I think you are being a bit harsh on yourself, and some other posters are too. If you'd think it will help then speak to someone irl, otherwise I think you could just let it go.
Batcave said it all really. I am sure everyone has some fantasies plus you felt he was a threat to your baby. On some level we are probably designed to eradicate threats to our offspring! If you feel you need help generally then get some if not just move on.
Hi OP, I don't think you sound unhinged at all. I think you sound perfectly normal! What would have been unhinged is if you'd described your plans to hunt this kid down and knock him off his bike on another occasion.
I have a lot of "intrusive thoughts" about perfectly horrible things but I bet no-one I know in RL would ever guess - I am a smiley, kindly, grey-haired middle-aged lady who is kind to children and animals! Of course you would never act on your thoughts about this stupid little twerp. I had a similar experience a few years ago. I was driving home (suburban Birmingham) on a drizzly winter evening with very poor visibility and there was someone on a small motorbike who was only a couple of feet behind me. This meant that his headlight was shining right in my rearview mirror, making it very difficult for me to see him or, indeed, anything else. After several minutes of very awkward driving, with me weaving my head around to try and avoid the glare of his headlight to see, and worrying about pedestrians diving off the pavement in front of me, other cars, etc etc, and becoming more and more irritated, we were in a queue of traffic waiting to go onto a roundabout. He was, by this point, practically in the boot of my car - and I suddenly snapped. I switched off the engine, got out, and went round and confronted him. He was very young, possibly only 16/17. I shouted at him "have you ANY IDEA how dangerously you're driving? WHY are you so close to my car?" and he muttered "your're driving too slowly". Then I really saw red. I bellowed at him "It's not your business to try and tell other drivers how fast they should be driving! I have been driving since BEFORE YOU WERE BORN! And if you carry on like this you will be dead before Christmas!". He was looking more and more huffy. Then I hit him with the killer blow. "If your mum could see you, she would take this stupid little scooter away from you and you'd have to go on the bus!"
Then I got back into my car. I'm glad to say that he had the good sense to hang back until we got to the roundabout, and then he took a different exit. While he was right behind me and endangering himself, me and others in our vicinity, I had been fantasising about stopping the car suddenly so he would hit the back of it - but actually, confronting him and reminding him just what a baby he was, and how stupidly he was behaving, worked far better.
I hope the op does speak to the police, hopefully they will tell her the law about using your car as a weapon.
" On some level we are probably designed to eradicate threats to our offspring!"
A bicycle is not threatening to a 4x4, or whatever the OP was driving.
I am going to hide this thread now as it is making me fume.
I am shocked that anone can be nice to someone who wishes to harm a cyclist.
very odd, I hope the OP gets help.
YANBU OP. I'd probably have exactly the same impulse and sometimes get murderously angry especially when somebody is being a prick and I know there is fuck all going to be done about it.
The important thing is that you didn't act on it and the fact that you are on here suggests to me that you are healthy enough to know that these thoughts should remain as just that. I even understand the regret you felt!
we can book therapy together
Thanks joan 4x4 I wish!
It was a little fiat Punto and yes the 6 foot odd boy was very,very threatening indeed while he was blocking my exit, spitting on my windscreen and trying to bash the window in!!!
I'm surprised by the kindness and empathy from a lot of posters on here. I expected much more of a telling off/slagging off but you've made me feel a bit better about my dark thoughts.
The intrusive thoughts thing was very comforting. Maybe my behaviour or rather thought process was more common than I'd thought and perhaps in all honesty more people have these kind of thoughts.
your car is a lethal wepon
if you cant drive it responsibly you shouldnt be allowed to drive it at all
and if you did...... i hope you would get jailed for it..... where you would need to be.... and never allowed to drive again
I can kinda understand you. So long ad you didn't actually want to do harm.
I often want to knock down the idiots that cross the end of out road without looking. I want to knock them down, I want to teach them a lesson but I don't want to actually hurt them.
I think you sound a bit unhinged tbh.
I think the majority of people here are massively overreacting
It is not unreasonable to wish harm on someone. It is unreasonable to cause harm to them, which I really doubt you would have done.
All those proclaiming "unhinged!" - get a grip, can you honestly say, after reading hecate 's link that you've never experienced intrusive thoughts? I know I have.
The fact is OP is remorseful, as evidenced by her being worried about the thoughts and posting here in the first place.
The fact she was in a car, he was a cyclist - completely irrelevant. It's the thoughts that are the issue, nothing else.
I know how as a driver it feels to be intimidated, I once had a group of drunken yobs jump on top of the mini I was driving through a city centre on a Friday night. I was so scared, and part of me wished I'd done something other than sit there like a frightened rabbit.
And her baby was is the car ffs. That would bring out the primal in me too.
I've honestly never had thoughts about killing a person.
Nice for you that you've never experienced an intrusive thought. They are unpleasant to say the least.
She didn't have thoughts of killing him though did she? She had thoughts of knocking him off. Obviously the consequence of this could have been death but ultimately the thought wasnt to kill him.
Whatever she still sounds unhinged to me. Knocking a kid off his bike could very easily kill him.
Hi OP. I know what you mean. I had never heard of intrusive thoughts before, but it was an interesting read because I do have OCD.
I call it inner rage. It's that thing when someone does something to seriously piss you off or frighten you and you have a fantasy about punching them in the face or some such.
I actually think it gets worse as I get older. There was a teen like your bike one at the bus stop last night spitting on the pavement every thirty seconds.
The inner rage part of me wanted to rub his face in it. But I walked around the back so I couldn't see him do it. Dirty fucker.
Agree with Batcave The fact he was cycling was irrelevant. The fact that a car was the OP's weapon of choice was irrelevant. This is not
yet another drivers vs cyclists thread at all, the OP did not have those thoughts because she hates cyclists and feels "entitled" to hurt them. It was just that irrational and impulsive urge to teach someone a lesson.
I never realised that "intrusive thoughts" were even a named 'condition' tbh I thought everyone had them and the difference between normal and unstable was just whether they were acted on. I guess I'll just re-buckle my straight jacket and retreat to the corner
I was in a cycling accident in January. I was doing everything right. I was wearing a reflective brightly coloured jacket, wearing a brightly coloured reflective bag, wearing a helmet, riding as far to the kerb as I could.
I can't remember most of the accident. I know from the damage to my helmet that it saved my life. If I had died my daughter and my son, who was 20 days old at the time, wouldn't have a father. My parents wouldn't have their son. My wife wouldn't have her husband.
So when I say that your post makes you sound like an arse OP, that's because I have first hand experience of this situation from the other side.
I'm at the number of people who've never had intrusive thoughts. I'm a nice, stable person but I get them all the time! I think it's particularly understandable after being spat at and having someone bash on your window in that aggressive manner, especially with a baby in the back. I would be fuming for days and it can't help that you see him out and about. Talk to someone in RL and start planning now what you'll do when you next see him (ie keep well away and remind yourself he's a child!)
YY kalisi that's what I was trying to say
you put it better than me
LadyKinbote I suspect most of these people just don't want to admit that they've had intrusive thoughts. Either that or they haven't bothered to read the link if they know nothing about it
I've read the link. I get pissed off with people but I have never had thoughts about killing/seriously injuring a kid. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
CaptainBarnacles and the other cycling posters who have taken up a default position of cyclists are always right and drivers are always wrong, please read the thread, the OP, and her responses before launching off. It isn't actually about the rights and wrongs of cycling and driving, but about how the OP is shocked at her own feelings and asking for help and advice.
Intrusive thoughts are incredibly common. When you walk along a river and wonder "what would happen if I just jumped in?" or at the top of the multistory, sending a quick text before you get in the car and get a fleeting urge to lob your phone over the edge just to see what would happen? Those are intrusive thoughts and of course a rational person doesn't act on them but it is part of what can cause people with severe mental health problems to do things like that, they lose that rational part of the brain that stops them acting on the thoughts.
Having a flash of how it might play out if you did harm to someone who has wronged you isn't uncommon either. Hell I've idly planned out elaborate murder and body disposal plots for my ex for the crap he has put me and our kids through. I wouldn't act on them, I'm not a sociopath, but having done them makes me feel better because I'm not just passively accepting being treated badly, even though the action I take is only inside my head. It is a form of regaining control.
I fully understand that. What I don't understand is why, knowing about the intrusive thoughts you still think OP is a bad person. Especially as she did not have thoughts about killing him.
I think it might be a good idea to speak to your GP or health visitor OP if these thoughts have frightened you, is it possible that you have anxiety or PND if you have a young baby? I know that I have had intrusive thoughts since having DD which are linked to heightened anxiety in my case. I think the people saying the OP should turn in her driving license are way OTT, she didn't actually do anything wrong (unlike the youth on the bike who was deliberately intimidating her) and it is a good thing that OP realises this level of rage isn't normal and should be the catalyst for speaking to a HCP about it.
Where have I said she is a bad person? I think she needs to get some help as her intrusive thoughts are not fleeting and she is obsessing over them all night and still wishing she hurt the kid the next day.
Ok, dexter , I'm sorry unhinged which is derogatory and unhelpful. You show a lack of empathy.
tr.v. un·hinged, un·hing·ing, un·hing·es
1. To remove from hinges.
2. To remove the hinges from.
3. To confuse; disrupt.
4. Informal To derange; unbalance: He was unhinged by his wife's death.
It's not derogatory.
captainBarnacles I'm sorry you had an accident but that isn't the same situation at all. Nowhere near. I was not driving recklessly. This thread was about me exploring my horrid feelings and thoughts and as others have said it isn't really about car v's bike. I did not speed up to knock this lad off his bike. I drove normally and turned into my road at the same speed (<5 mph) in second gear as I always would when turning. I considered not stopping that is true, but I didn't do it!
I drive responsibly. I drive carefully. I respect other road users and pedestrians.
One of the first things my driving instruction ever said to me was 'never forget you are in charge of a deadly weapon. The day you forget that is the day you should reconsider driving'
The situation was that I wanted to hurt someone who had terrified me, still feel that way a tiny bit tbh.
Thread wasn't about fact that I hate cyclists and want to run them off the road. In fact in the first situation with this lad I slowly tailed behind him for half the length of the road (probably 2/3 minutes) as it would not have been safe to overtake him. I also did not overtake him when he started to move over, I waited until it would have been safe to do so. It was only when his bike fell backwards away from him as he was at the side of my car pounding on the window that I drove off very quickly and very frightened.
Your tone is unkind though.
For what it's worth I agree with you that if OP is still obsessing about hurting the kid that she needs to seek help.
One day is not an obsession! The boy was- cycling without due care and attention, verbally abusive, physically spat at the OP's car and generally just behaved in a vile fashion. The OP........had a bad thought. Dun dun duuuuuuuunnnnn! what an absolutely unreasonable, dangerous bitch.
batcave that wasn't a response to you by the way. I agree that if the OP herself feels troubled then it can't hurt to speak to someone.
Every time I take my child to their swimming lesson, I look at the pool and wonder what would happen if I just jumped in with all my clothes on.
Haven't read all of this as couldn't stomach the poison coming off the op - but just to say you, op, were using your horn illegally in the first place. I'm sure most police officers would agree that, as well as potentially caising an accident, using the horn as a way to express your annoyance from the safety of your car, when you wouldn't dare do so face to face with the irritating teenager, can lead to a snowball effect and end in violence.
In case you don't know, your honking was an act of road rage. I can't stand seeing no-handed cyclists -but neither can I stand sanctimonious drivers who think they own the fucking road and pit me and my children in much more danger than any cyclist. And I see a good few of them every, whereas I could count on one hand the number of no-hands I see in a month or several.
For future reference, here's the legal position on correct use of the horn.
Don't go around honking at people without being prepared for the consequences - and think of your baby next time you're tempted to tell another road user how to behave.
This is one of the reasons we have gun control in this country.
And yes, yes, NEVER EVER honk your honk at a cyclist. We sometimes have noooo idea what it means and has the potential to cause an accident rather than prevent one. It's a real shock to hear it esp if close.
In fact, apart from the obvious twattiness of riding with no hands and texting, the only 'danger' he was causing you and your baby was slowing you down.
Can't see where the 'primal reaponse' comes into it.
Yes. if you feel that intrusive thoughts are becomming obsessive, then you should get help.
If you want to PM me, then I'll tell you about my problem with intrusive thoughts, but I'm simply not willing to lay myself open to some of what you've suffered by detailing my mhp on this thread. Selfish, I know
Really shotgun? I suppose I could have wound down my window and shouted 'excuse me please young man, you appear to be riding in the dead centre of a fairly long road meaning that no other road users are able to share this space with you. Would you mind moving over please' and I guess at the point he would have allowed me to pass.
I don't think I own the fucking road.
I suppose you would have slowly trailed behind him all the way to the end of the road and possibly much further if he decided not to be considerate to you or any other road user?
oh and I consider that the lad Was causing danger. He was in the centre of a road, not in control of his bike and not actually looking ahead
Unacceptable - i've read most of the thread and am a bit confused as to what reaction we were expecting. Flamed? Supported? Judged?
Whatever happened on the road, you were the mature, responsible grown-up in this situation, but it seems behaved like a competitive, impatient child and are indulging yourself now with 'new of your thoughts' after the event.
Er yes I would, actually. I might have been swearing the whole time and extremely irate that he was acting like a twat - but, s I said, the horn is not a weapon and can cause a catastrophic accident for a cyclist or pedestrian.
And why would I wind sown my window and say anything to someone who clearly acts outside the boundaries of reasonable behaviour?
Oh wait - I'd be in a car, so that means I could act all hard and brave.
Again, use of the horn.
the AA guide to sharing the road with cyclists
Pay attention to
"Ride assertively, away from the gutter. If the road is too narrow for vehicles to pass you safely, it may be better to ride in the middle of the lane to prevent dangerous overtaking."
"Cyclists have the same rights on the road and as a driver you should remember that you are sharing the road with cyclists."
Very useful Daddyman Defensive/assertive riding saves lives. Ours.
There is so much wrong with the defensive reactions on here I honestly don't know where to start! I think there are some very deep rooted personal issues with drivers on this thread.
Driving slowly behind him until you got to the end of the road or he moved over would have made you frustrated and possibly feeling like you'd been made an arse by this idiot, but if you hadn't honked him you would never have seen him turn nasty and spit and bash on your windscreen.
He was the twat and you were the aggressor.
I kind of know what you mean OP - if you mean your suddenly aware that you were in a position of power in the car vs him on his bike.
I am always aware of that. I particularly keep it in mind when anywhere near arsehole cyclists who have zero road sense. Because no matter how much they annoy me/endanger themselves and others is never worth actually hitting them. They could easily die. Not worth it.
Doesn't stop me thinking "have you got a death wish you utter utter fuckwit" though.
He was a total fucking dick. If one wishes to text then it's not U to stop at the side to do so. If a car was going down a road at 2mph people would be beeping all over the place.
You were not U to want to teach him a lesson.
But you would have been U to have actually done it!
Bearing in mind there is a significant chance the op has mental health problems (which she is brave enough to admit to) I think calling her unhinged etc is really shit.
Hecate speaks much sense as usual.
No issues with drivers per se here - I can barely ride a bike and have never ben on one on the public highway ever since I ran into a stationary car when trying to practice cycling at the age of 24. Kept cracking my ankles on these bolts sticking out by the pedals as well.
I don't think my riding in a heavily-armoured petrol-powered vehicle gives me extra road-using rights over slower, more vulnerable road users, though - do you?
Not at all, but that has already been explained in a previous post so I will not bother repeating myself
This is so not a thread about cyclists v motorists. If you want to start another one of those
because MN needs more of those a fucking hole in the head off you toddle.
This thread is about someone frightened by her extreme reaction to an everyday situation. Have some compassion or piss off.
It's not unreasonable for the OP to have beeped him - he was clearly unaware of the traffic around him and she was therefore letting him know she was there. He was breaking the law by cycling with no hands and texting - the Highway Code requires you to be in control of your "vehicle" - and he clearly was not.
His reaction was totally uncalled for and unreasonable.
However, the OP is unreasonable in still wanting to have knocked him over. As my former close (stair) cleaner used to say, "Let it go !!"
Good lord what a strange thread.
He obviously shouldn't have spat and banged on your window
But to replay the scenario over and over all night and kick yourself for not hitting him with your car when you had the chance...
Well that's beyond fucked up.
Let's hope you don't actually manage to do it accidentally now you've started this thread.
I'm not sure you can ever expect any particular reaction on AIBU Wrathdepan I posted because I was shocked that I'd even come close to doing anything so wretched to another human being, a child at that.
I posted to see if anyone else could shed light on why I would contemplate doing something so wicked and why, although I didn't do anything, my strongest feeling afterwards was not 'thank God I saw sense and braked before I hurt this boy' (though I do feel like that more and more after discussing it, thinking about it and hearing other opinions) but more 'I could have hit that lad...I wish I had'
Thank you to Hecate for your understanding and intelligent link. Not selfish in the slightest to not want to open yourself up to AIBU crowd.
Thanks also for the AA link
though the kid has not an ounce of respect for anyone, of that I'm certain. He wasn't riding in centre of road for his own safety. One day HE will hurt somebody but I will not not . In future I will not use my horn. The only other time I have ever used my horn was to hurry my DH or DC up when sat on drive waiting forever for them to get in car
Totally agree with Hecate as usual. A lot of people have these kinds of intrusive thoughts.
Sometimes they are fixated on some kind of warped sense of 'just desserts' and there is a lot of displaced anger from incidents in which we have felt wronged or that people are 'getting away' with terrible behaviour.
Sometimes they are seemingly random, eg your boss is talking away and you imagine suddenly licking their face. You can't stop thinking about it, what would that be like, what would happen, what would s/he say or do? It can be very bizarre.
It's obsessive cognitive behaviour. Depends how much it affects your life in general as to whether you may need to get some sort of therapy to investigate it. But try not to feel so much shame and self-loathing. At least you are being honest and, most importantly, did NOT act on the thoughts.
Glad you've seen the light about the horn, op - but erm using it to toot at your family is also illegal !
YABVU. And there is no such thing as a safe tap on a cyclist: a sideways knock can cause a head injury. And yes, he was in the safe and legal place. You were in the wrong the first time you "beeped" him and should give way to individuals crossing a side road so would in in the wrong if you hit him then.
Yes he overreacted, but someone with a deadly weapon was from his perspective threatening him. A car driver "beeping" is often followed by an unsafe overtake if you don't immediately jump off the road for them.
And be bloody glad that he is on a bike and will thus struggle to hurt another person. You are in a car.
You may have wanted someone to shed light, but you could have put it in chat or somewhere and asked "Why did I want to kill someone?" not "WIU to kill someone?" You didn't even say it was only a thought. Of course cyclists are going to react strongly to that.
Without reading the other replies, OFCOURSE YABU! Don't take the law into your own hands, that's what the police are for. You silly woman.
Fair point mrsHoarder
I didn't think that clearly when posting though, it all just came tumbling out
"And yes, he was in the safe and legal place."
Riding with no hands and texting is safe?
As has been said by many thios was never about cyclists vs drivers, it was about the OP's shock at the her feelings.
Credit to you though, you've taken the flaming with remarkably good humour.
good point mrsHoarder
Another reason why we do react is that MN has a bikist-bashing thread every 2-3 weeks, that often ends up in a situation where angry car drivers get to express their aggression and condone injuring cyclists because one or two have ticked them off. Cyclists threads can get quite combustible.
From the Highway Code:
The horn. Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence. Never sound your horn aggressively. You MUST NOT use your horn
while stationary on the road
when driving in a built-up area between the hours of 11.30 pm and 7.00 am"
So are we suggesting a cyclist is not a road user? If the OP did just "Beep" her horn (and not blare it) she was just "warning him over her presence". He was clearly unaware of all other road users.
I'm not sure if the OP was breaking the law when beeping at her family from the driveway - as she wasn't actually on the road . Now, if she's pulled out the driveway and was still waiting on them parked at the side of the road, then she definitely was!
So if she was 'warning him of her presence' does that mean it's okay for someone to beep me if I happen to be driving more slowly than the person behind me deems suitable? That's not the correct interpretation of the rule.
If someone's about to pull out of a junction and clearly haven't seen you, that's when they need a warning honk - not when you decide they're driving or cycling badly and you 'd just better tell them so.
If he was cycling with no hands, not looking at the road, then he clearly needs to be made aware of other users - if only to encourage him to put both hands back on the handlebars and maintain full control of the bike.
AIBU to slightly admire the dexterity and general chutzpah of this young chap?
Wow Hecate - thanks for that link! I get these occasionally and although I don't think I have OCD, it's possible that I have mild depressive periods. I also get quite bad PMT.
Unacceptable - only you can know really whether you need to have a chat with your GP about your mental state. I agree mainly with people stating this could be a biological impulse due to the fear you felt for your child. You have a baby - so maybe you do have a mild form of PND.
I just want to say, that if what I have thought has been these Intrusive Thoughts then I have had:
Desires to hurt my toddler very badly
Desires to stab myself to show how serious I was about saying 'no' (in a verging on sexual abuse situation at university)
Desires that people who are causing me stress have a stroke or heart attack
So it's possible I am a psychopath, I guess, but in the same person I'm terrified of my children being hurt and I love them deeply. So you are not alone, but of course we could both have real mental issues.
"AIBU to slightly admire the dexterity and general chutzpah of this young chap?"
That would depend on your response when he falls off and goes under the wheels of the car behind.
Nooooo BBJ - when you have that dexterity and chutzpah one never falls off!
If only that were true (not sure if a smiley is appropriate emote)
OP, I'm really sorry you're in this horrible position- thoughts like this can take over your mind and it doesn't have to be a reflection of your personality or character- just the position you're in- are you particularly stressed or anxious about something else at the moment? It could be a manifestation of this.
FWIW- I sometimes do wish I could really hurt a couple of the people who made my life shit for a while. I'm still dealing with the effects now and sometimes I'm seized with a kind of violent desire to get back at them. It's almost a physical reaction- my body stiffens up and things go a bit wobbly. I don't think I'm unhinged, I'm just unhappy sometimes, and I don't really know how to deal with things properly. We just need to try hard to keep these irrational feelings under control while we sort out all the crap that's going on in the background.
Bizarrely though- I also sometimes want to be nice to them- to the point of volunteering favours- and I have no idea why I get these stupid urges. Just some throwback to the days when I thought that just being nice to these people would turn things around. We don't control our minds, as much as we like to think we do for the most part.
I would tend to react badly to motorists who beep their horn at me on my bike. Depending on how its done. A light tap is one thing, but you get people who give a three-second blast, and it's very annoying when you are sitting on a bike. These things are after all designed to be heard inside another motor vehicle, so it's just way too loud for a cyclist.
How old is your baby? I had loads of odd thoughts and irrational rages when I had PND. They weren't as extreme as what you're posting, but my PND wasn't that extreme, either. That would be the first avenue I'd explore.
Hi OP - you have my sympathies and I also think you've had a hard time on here. I suffered from intrusive thoughts since childhood. I have a recurring thoughts of some specific violent harm coming to me (it's quite a bizarre thing, highly unlikely to occur) but rarely thoughts involving others do arise also. Where such thoughts (ie involving others) tend to recurr in a slightly obsessive way (ie where I can sometimes dwell on them as opposed to them just being a fleeting intrusion which is gone as quickly as it arises) is in situations where that person has made me feel powerless/vulnerable, much as you did after having the cyclist bang on your window. Such thoughts are also far far worse/more likely to occur when I am in a state of stress or anxiety anyway during which I also display some minor OCD traits (ritualised cleaning etc).
I've never felt particularly concerned about these thoughts, I believed that most people experienced them and having several friends who work in mental health fields has only confirmed this for me so worry not too much about the weird unreal world that is the experiences of the oh so sane MN AIBU folks Think about (perhaps seek help) if there is some underlying anxiety/stress which is causing you to obsess on these thoughts more than usual at present.
Sorry, my DS is the baby of the family but he is 2 so I don't think PND is at play here.
I am under a fair bit of stress currently I guess. Except I don't feel stressed out. Life is just a bit full on at times. My DM has recently been diagnosed with breast cancer but although I am, of course, worried about her I hadn't been thinking about her as such last night and wouldn't have connected the 2 things together.
But that's exactly what we don't realise, how things are connected when they just seem far apart. It's all a big maelstrom up there. It's like when people are stressed and their hair falls out or they get mysterious rashes- would we normally link the two things if we didn't know that stress/hair loss went together? That's what I meant about it being more a manifestation, rather than something which was obvious.
Sorry about your mum, I hope everything goes as quickly and well as it can.
Think you've had a hard time OP. I have these intrusive thoughts. I've thought about killing people who've hurt or pissed me off in the past, planned in my mind how I would do it. Not done it...yet. Also used to wonder what it would be like to run a razor across my wrists when sitting in the bath and wanted to put my foot down when driving and keeping it there. Would like to know if there are ways of dealing with this kind of negative thinking.
It's quite an interesting topic.
From when I was quite small (just out of toddlerhood I'd say) I would be at once scared and fascinated by scissors- there'd be moods when I wouldn't go near them just in case I grabbed them and would do something I'd regret (wrists, hair etc). They were always highly charged moments and passed after a bit.
OP I think you've been brave posting as you have. I have had these intrusive thoughts since early childhood (thanks for the link Hecate), and came to terms with them in adulthood.
I just ignore them now, really, but probably would have felt exactly as you did on that situation.
Have you ever tried CBT? I found it very useful to rationalise my thought processes.
I now feel much less - ahem - unhinged. (Charming, helpful term).
I think still thinking about this months later and the fact that you have serious regrets that you didn't hurt him is not normal exactly.
However the thought that you could have run him over and the urge to do so (not acted upon) is totally normal IMO.
I don't believe that any of you suggesting the OP is evil for wanting to hurt someone could have been in a similar situation.
The 'boy' was riding in a dangerous, selfish and irresponsible manner.
The OP tooted him which is perfectly legal as it is clear he was completely oblivious to other road users.
The youth spat at her and attacked her car because she dared to suggest he should move over in a road where a car could easily pass a bike.
Don't kill him OP, you would get put away but frankly the death of a piece of scum like him would be no loss to anyone - I am only concerned that an innocent driver will hit him and be traumatised.
what the fuck? death of a piece of scum like him would be no loss to anyone he's just a stupid teenager for goodness sake!
I sometimes, yes, ride on the road with no lights/headphones....I'm not rude in the way he was but I'm not safe (although I always slow down and go well to the side when there's a car, obviously). Am I a piece of scum who could die and it wouldn't matter to my parents, family, friends etc? jesus christ you're the one with problems.
or just getting far too carried away on an anonymous internet forum. also possible.
quirrel And do you spit at people and smash their cars up too?
The careless riding thing is not the issue for me, I agree that that behaviour is just silly, selfish and immature but his disgusting, violent attack on a woman is the thing that makes me call him scum.
No, I don't (it's not like he smashed her car up!).
I agree he is a nasty unpleasant piece of work, but he's a silly immature kid and to say that it doesn't matter if he dies, the only thing that matters is the OP not suffering for what she's done, is absurd and not very helpful. Can you imagine having a much-wanted baby and never mind all you've tried, he grows up like that- then you get the knock on your door that you've started to dread, that he's been knocked off his bike, and witnesses agreed that it was due in part to his own antisocial behaviour. It would be a huge loss and a tragedy.
Sorry to be so aggressive, I was just shocked!
The lad sounds like an utter arse and I would be furious too, and have certainly had intrusive thoughts about other situations in the past. I completely understand what the OP has explained and I don't think for a moment that she's dangerous or unhinged. The fact that she's so disturbed by her own reaction demonstrates that she has a reasonably good grasp of reality. She's hardly sitting and plotting this kid's demise, whilst believing wholeheartedly that it's a perfectly acceptable thing to do!
OP, glad to see that you know it would have been a) highly unreasonable and b) massively illegal for you to retaliate against this kid. I think you possibly could do with debriefing to someone about the first incident though, just to give you some closure on it so you don't feel the bile rising every time you see him out and about. I wonder if there's any way the police would have a word with him about cycling responsibly (ie wearing a helmet and high vis gear, keeping his hands on the handles and not fucking texting whilst on the road!). At least then he's less likely to pose a danger to himself and other road users.
quirrel You are right - I am a very judgemental person to the extent of being horrible at times. Not to be a melodramatic but it makes me sad that kids like this behave like this and others lose their lives with horrible diseases and or through things that are no fault of their own. Like the kids who were killed when a car mounted a kerb and ran into them.
Domino I think we're just REALLY removed from the OP's situation- so all we feel is sympathy for her, really, without actually feeling how scared and anxious/confused she must be, and it's easy to demonise the boy. So it's hard to get some perspective. It's just that I'm closer in age to the
little fucker boy, so maybe I'm kind of getting a bit indignant on his behalf, as irrational as that might be.
It makes me sad too, you're absolutely right on that point, but when you're young you just don't appreciate how fragile life can be.
Okay the weirdos have come out of the woodwork now. The op has agreed she shouldn't have honked - the suitable response to what this idiot was doing was to keep a safe distance and resign herself to being stuck behind a prat for longer than she'd care to be.
To describe another human being as a piece of scum whose loss could only be a benefit to society is sinking to a whole new level of low.
I don't think this sounds like 'intrusive thoughts' at all. It's not having a sudden thought about doing something awful that's the problem. Lots of people have those. I've had them occasionally.
But sitting there at home afterwards, disappointed and kicking yourself for not doing it, and seriously asking the question whether or not it would have been unreasonable to do it? That doesn't sound like the same thing to me.
He stopped at the front of my car, spat on windscreen then came to side and used (I think) his phone to violently bang against my passenger window.
Yes, I would probably have had a word with out local PCSO about this, and the local PCSO would likely have 'had a word'. It's no use for 17-year olds to think that this kind of behaviour is ok - it's not doing the lad any good for his future.
As for the intrusive thoughts, OP - what Hecate said. You can control lots of negative thoughts through CBT, guided imagery etc. You can train yourself to say 'STOP' and move on to other thoughts. There are techniques that work really well.
Someone with intrusive thoughts can become obsessive and the intrusive thoughts prolonged.
If you read my link upthread, they aren't always a fleeting thought.
To those saying that they have never had these thoughts MN is full of them.
AIBU to punch someone for something?
Should I do ????? to my EX?
Some light hearted some not, some about food some about causing injury to someone, the OP is not alone in this.
It's not the duration of the thoughts that I find odd, it's someone seriously asking whether or not this is a reasonable thing to do. And trying to justify it e.g. 'certain he would have hurt me' when there's in fact no evidence to support that at all.
OP did not ask whether she was unreasonable to have the thoughts. She would probably have got different answers if she had. Her question is very clearly asking whether it would be unreasonable to actually do it, to knock someone off their bike because they'd annoyed her by not letting her overtake quickly enough. Look at the title.
^ Yeah, but I don't think she was actually asking that. I think the OP knew she was totally unreasonable but got all mixed up and confused, which anyone would be. The fact that she says she's horrified and shocked at the thoughts means that it'd be a little unlikely for her to ask that in the way it sounds.
It sounds like you knocked him off his bike on the narrow lane.
How could he be banging on the window if you had not started overtaking him (as you deny) ?
I agree with bobbygusset on page 1 - more of the posters on here sound far more unhinged with their hysterical responses than the op!
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I haven't read this all, but my first thought was "intrusive thought", you know it's wrong, it comes to mind involuntarily and by NOT acting on it, you are sane & moral.
He's a PIA teenager, but you don't have the right to take him out...
The point is that the OP didn't do it.
Someone doesn't deliberately knock someone off their bike and you think they need anger management?
Calm down people.
A small minority of teens. Remembers group who thought it was funny to throw stones at my back.
My crime getting my 5-6 ish DD to jump down off the wall 10ft or more from them.
So they didn't have to move.
A small minority of teens ruin things for the rest.
Sorry my, now teen, wanted something.
cumfy I absolutely, definitely did not knock the kid off his bike!!
If you have the time or inclination to read the full facts of the first incident I shall right them all down for you. I didn't in OP as it was long winded enough as it was but I did briefly outline what had happened.
After trailing behind this lad for a couple of minutes, fully expecting him to be a little distracted by his phone and imagining that once he'd texted or whatever he would take hold of his bike and allow me to pass (which he didn't do) I wrongly perhaps tooted my horn.
He then started to veer to the left. At this point I was crawling in 1st gear behind him. Because he was moving left and had lost some speed I applied my brake. I did not attempt to pass him as it would not have been safe to do so. I waited till there was a large enough, clear gap.
The gap,however, was not to appear. He stopped in line with my left headlight, turned his upper body right round and hocked something nice and slimy onto my windscreen. He then used his feet to walk back a little, while still on his bike until he was at side of car next to passenger window. Then he used, I presume, his phone to bang...and I mean fast, furious, angry, solid, heavy whacks on my window. The force of him doing this caused his bike to fall away behind him and as he turned to grab his bike I floored it and drove away!!!
I did actually check my rear view thinking I'd perhaps hurt him in my escape but no there he was, in full control of his bike this time tear-assing after me.
So No comfy thanks for your concern for this poor innocent kid , but as you can see I did not knock him off his bike. I did consider doing it on Friday evening when I saw him again...but I didn't.
I would report him and chances are as he clearly makes a habit of riding around without lights/ visible clothing, riding in front of cars without looking and indulging in threatening behaviour, he's probably known to the local community police officers.
This boy is clearly a total knob. What I find more worrying is that in a few months time he could possibly be driving a car around. What a wanker. But op- you shouldn't be sitting at home thinking about knocking him down. Just report and move on.
Next time you spot him, could you stop the car and take a sneaky picture on your phone (with car window firmly locked obv)? Then you can report to the police, say you've seen him cycling dangerously on x, y and z occasions and about the incident when he threatened you?
I'm all for legal, safe comebacks
You would do much better to report both incidents to the police and explain that this boy is an accident waiting to happen. At least if someone does run him over (very likely) then it will be on record, what his road safety skills are like.
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