to be stressed and shocked at being possibly pregnant?(435 Posts)
I feel like I might be pregnant. I have 8 DCs (yes, eight!!!) I do keep a positive attitude and cope very well but I am kind of thinking 'oh my god 9 kids!!?' I feel overwhelmed!!! Its not that I would hate to have another child but I feel so shocked and strange about having 9 kids! Its only 1 more but it is so close to 10...
This post doesn't really make much sense I am just overwhelmed
I think anyone has the right to feel shocked at an unplanned pregnancy. Have you been using contraception?
You do have options, if you don't want to expand your family further.
I guess you've worked out how babies happen by now?
You are not being unreasonable! I think its overwhelming whatever number yor up to.
Can I strongly suggest frogmarching your dh off to the doctors for a vasectomy as a matter of urgency?!! To be honest, if you've already got 8, will one more make any difference?
I will have to test soon screams
I really thought I had finished having any more kids now
If you've contracepted and all that, well maybe its fate or maybe you cAn explore options.
I really want to know if your preggers now!
First thing tomorrow ill go and get a test
Its just saying 'ive got 9 kids' sounds so weird to me! 8 does too...
8 kids I struggle with the one (and an older DSD, but she is a big help rather than someone else to look after ). How do you do it? I guess at least you must have all the baby stuff you'd need... or did you get rid of it all?
How sure are you? Missed period? Symptoms? You've not said anything about contraception im curious!
Natasha luckily I kept it so I've got loads of clothes, got the pram etc. there are a lot of ways to keep costs down that I've had to learn really
As for how I cope I just.. do but it is definitely hard!
Telly I have missed 1 period (unless its late) but I just have the feeling like I did with my other pregnancies plus I am just so tired, want to sleep after being awake for a couple of hours same as the last times I was pregnant
If she doesn't want any more she could always get sterilised autumnlights...
Stunt id rather not get sterilised and its not that I would hate to have another its just that I didn't expect it and feel really overwhelmed, shocked etc. which is different to my past pregnancies
what CONTRACEPTION are you using?
Just out of interest,how old are your children? And how old are you? I am 31 and can't pluck up the courage to have one,though I really want to!!
I was on the pill, not for very long though and I did forget to take it 2 days in a row so its not really a question of 'how could this possibly happen' just wasn't expecting it or planning to have any more
Kicked husband out a week ago because of his behaviour so having more kids just wasn't on my mind at all
If it happened to me I would consider taking the long walk into the Cursed Earth.
Wtf1981 I'm a year older than you and the first time I got pregnant I was terrified, id never held a baby before but as soon as she was born it all changed, everyones situations are different but I think its just as daunting for all women
oh eek, perhaps I need to point you to Lone Parents too
As I say, there's masses of support here
Don't you ever got confused having two children with Ann in their name?
I get pregnancy symptoms everytime I'm due on, have done since I had ds2. Weird and bloody annoying!
Click on Bella's name, it takes you to her profile which has some details about her and her family, LightHouse
Wtf1981 i was 32 when I had my first, 35 with my second.
According to OP profile she has children called lilyann and violet Ann. Just seemed like very. similar names
Never really found it confusing to be honest
Blimey your a better woman than me I find it hard enough with one!!
Gosh 8 children including twins!
Use condoms if you can't take the pill properly and didn't want any more children. Hopefully you aren't pregnant, but a tip for the future.
I am sorry to hear that you worrying over the possibility of an unplanned pregnancy. 9 children on your own must be a very daunting prospect. Will your husband support you financially? The best thing you can do is take a test as soon as you can.
Doubt it Property but I may have to take action if he doesn't
And yep ill be taking a test tomorrow
i have number 2 on the way... conceived when condom broke
Mine is only number 2 but im stressing about it already (and yes, i spend 10 years nannying for at least 2 children at a time)
I tried for DC4 & 5.
Both times I got pregnant I was .
Specially DC5 because I got pregnant so quickly.
I was in a daze for weeks.
Its not like it should have been a surprise or anything. I was still like a stunned schoolgirl.
Do you think you can sort things out with your husband?
you have not taken the contraception properly, so can't be a huge surprise
How are you doing physically? Is your body up to another pregnancy/have your previous pregnancies been complicated?
Gosh you must be run off your feet! Good luck for your test.
Kilmuir it is a surprise because you don't get pregnant every time you have sex
MrsDeVere I would like to sort things out in some ways but not for him to move back in and get back together because his behaviour is terrible
Property I've not had any complications luckily and my body is up to it fortunately
Nanny best of luck to you!
Good luck for either outcome bella, I hope you get the result you want
I have six and its fab it doesnt seem like our family is that big,but when I say it out loud it seems like so many! My dh would love to have eight but I am done now
bellabreeze i know that having sex does not result in a baby every time, i also know that contraception is not very effective if not taken correctly! ooops missed 2 pills in a row........................................................
nannyl [shocks] how are you feeling? Also big Internet, lots of eyes, so I don't know if you mean to share but I shan't say anything.
OP I have nothing useful to say really but...gosh.
Splinters in my bum now.Half of me says Mazeltov ( congratulations ) The other half says WTAF. 8 and counting? Have a word with yourself ( or your Family Planning Association ) Why would you want so many kids ?
Well I've learned something today (the spelling of mazel tov!)
If you can't remember to take the pill maybe the implant, injection or coil would be better. I'm not being sarcy there BTW, I know that I would never be reliable enough to take the medication every morning!
Well at least it's not a football team - yet.
Maras, the same reason someone would want any number of kids really.. I always did want quite a few children ... it might not be to your taste
Well arent you lot just fecking charming?!
What the hell is wrong with 2 kids having the same middle name? What is wrong with having 8 kids if you can afford it and can cope. I have six and have come across the same attitudes in my life.
Why do I have 6? Because I wanted them and can cope with them. Dont judge larger families just because YOU cant cope!
OP, I hope that you get the result you want, and dont forget that whatever your ex says, you are entitled to child support for them and the CSA can take it straight from his wages if he refuses to pay up.
Gosh OP that is a lot of children! That said, it used to be really common to have much larger families. My DF is 1 of 9 although there was a much bigger gap between the eldest and youngest. I think there were only ever 7 living at home at any one time.
Don't panic until you have done the test thoug. It could just be your body changing.
If you have anymore than 2 kids you get the hairy eyebrow on MN. Over 3 and you are looked at with extreme suspicion.
I think you are in a tricky position because of your marriage break up OP but I am sure you will cope with number 9.
I would love another one. I always wanted 6 but its not going to happen now.
Having a big family is great, the kids would fight over who would watch the baby while I got on with dinner etc! And, as my eldest is 21 and second eldest is 15 and both live at home, I get babysitters whenever I want them at much below market rate as I give them a tenner and 3 days off their chores (Dishwasher duty for DS and laundry sorting for DD!), which is worth much more than money to them
I would love 5 but im not sure my body or my mh could take another pg so it probably won't happen.
Take a test op, I'm sure if it's positive you will be fine!
Wow 9 kids.
In some ways that would be lovely but it must be quite a financial strain.
I have two, oldest same age as your oldest. I know they have more than they need, but I genuinely don't think, even with both of us working and earning well, we could afford that.
I know I don't have the personal and parenting skills to do it either.
Good luck to you op.
Sorry my was meant to be a purely because I get my 2s names wrong all the time, and they are nothing alike! I'd be rubbish with 8 children.
I wasn't suggesting you should get sterilised bella! Just raising it as a point to the pp who jumped straight in to suggest to your husband getting the snip.
No wonder you're stressed and shocked right now. I hope you manage to get through this whatever happens.
I have 9 we stopped at nine as hubby had the snip I remember feeling just like you when I found out I was pregnant with no 9 (contraception failure again ) but we managed he is now 13 the loudest and busiest child I have had but we survived and I am so glad we have him
I wonder if it might be stress that is causing the symptoms, due to your ex etc? Stress can really mess you up physically and leave you very run down. I thought I was pregnant last year, turned out to be a sever UTI (it even stopped my periods) . Just a thought anyway.
I really wanted loads of DCs. Circumstances mean it's not really an option now.
Whatever happens when you test, I hope you are happy with the result.
In some ways that would be lovely but it must be quite a financial strain
It isnt because you adapt. My children know that Xmas doesnt mean £500 worth of presents each. They get one moderately priced gift (£50 ish) and a few bits and bobs, and if they want something more then we negotiate a gift share with other family members. They know that nothing is disposable, that recycling is good and that new to you is just as good as brand new. They get treats often, but their idea of a treat is probably alot less than your childrens idea of a treat (not critcising, just saying). A comic sometimes, a trip to the shop after school once a week for a chocolate bar, means a lot to them.
We eat simple food I suppose, by most peoples standards, but it is healthy, home cooked and tastes good. I couldnt afford ready meals which is good because at heart I am a lazy sod and would live on them if we could! This way, we all eat better because I have no choice but to cook from scratch
You cut your cloth, trim sails and manage
Bogey, loads of families scrimp in the ways you've mentioned. But surely the real costs of having a big family is in terms of housing them, transporting them, and helping them go off into the world when the time comes? Also childcare costs before they're school age.
Childcare costs havent been an issue as I run my own business around them, housing them, well we squeeze in! DD has her own room, DS has the converted Dining room, baby DD is still in with us at 17 months, and the other three share the biggest room. Sleeping is fine, we saved up and spent some money on a conservatory that was always going to be the playroom as that was the biggest issue. It cost about what most people would spend on a holiday in Europe, and is a life saver! Our car is a Zafira and we dont really drive far as there isnt the need.
It can be done, you just have to adjust your expectations and live life differently. I only started my business because we needed the money and I couldnt earn enough to cover the childcare, never mind anything else. It has turned out that I have a talent I never knew I had!
Oh God. It took me 13 years to get pregnant with my first child. I had to have help to do that. I love children and if I could just have popped them out I would probably have had as many as you.
As long as you love them and can support them (even with state help) I don't see the problem. Just maybe try not to have any more.
Interestingly have you ever read 'Call the Midwife'? One of the main stories in that is about a family with 38 kids and how happy they are.
Bogey I have a three bed house - could fit four children in it semi comfortably?
I already cook almost everything from scratch and I swear it's dearer than buying put of farmfoods.
Yes my kids get quite a bit but I honestly think more than four would have sent us into a lot of financial trouble. (having two was more to do with my health and ability to carry a pregnancy than cost tbh).
I suppose you do cut your coat to suit your cloth without a doubt - but I'd struggle if I couldn't give my kids some things, such as extracurricular classes, more about opportunities than stuff ifkwim, plus I honestly could not afford to feed eleven of us!
Why would you feel overwhelmed at having 9 kids when you already have 8? Is this the first contraceptive failure?
I would have thought your feelings should arise out of your suddenly having to raise your brood on your own than yet another one.
Blue is spot on. 2 to 9 is a huge jump. 8 to 9 of course you can cope ŵith!
I honestly could not afford to feed eleven of us!
You could, if you had to, you really could.
When I was expecting number 6, after being very comfortable thankyousoverymuch, our income was cut by 45% though no fault of ours. DH was in bits, I was on the internet! I looked at what we needed versus what we wanted and did the maths. We manage If you were the only living relative of 6 children, and if it wasnt you that took them in then it was care, with all that entaisl. What would you do?
You'd manage, you know you would.
I would be a kinship career which would be different, you get supported financially.
I could probably feed eleven - but not healthily ifkwim?
I am sure I could DO it. I know I couldn't do it well - financially or personally, I can still recognise that some of us can though. How old are your kids too? I'm stunned at my 13 year old - she seems to have hollow legs!
Also Rhonda extra curricular doesnt mean expensive. Brownies, Guides, Cubs, Scouts, after school web/art/acting clubs, council run enivromental clubs etc. They are all cheap but help the kids do other things. And having lots of siblings teaches them negotiation skills like you wouldn't believe. I am sure that any one of my lot could go on The Apprentice, sack Alan Sugar and he would be fine with it
Horses for course, but it isnt all tight purse strings and helping Mammy with the mangle
I don't imagine it is!m dd2 wants to do brownies - I'm thinking, uniforms, subs, trips, etc - plus I'm a "participator" - will end up helping out with her pack, just know it!
They are DS 21 (still at home, eats like a horse!), DD 15 (fabulous, plays county Rugby and is very sensible so I can forgive her odd teen moment!), DD 10 (almost 11 and the biggest drama queen ever!), DD 8 (little princess, eats like a pig with the munchies but also plays Rugby so runs it all off) DS 7 (ginganinja, total dustbin, but still skinny like the others, also plays rugby) DD 17 months (very cute, rules the house with an iron rod and thinks all the apples in the house belong to her!)
Big gaps, which I admit, does really help.
Well there's your problem! You need to get your head around "dump and run", if you can do that then the rest is a breeze
Uniforms - ebay. You can get practically new on there from parents who bought the whole kit and caboodle and then 6 weeks later the DD packed it in. Subs are low, affordable even on a low wage (trust me ), trips are also in the main, affordable because they know that alot of their brownies are from low earning families. Brownies and guides were always for the working classes and the costs reflect that.
But dont buy new uniform, please dont!
I'd find big gaps easier!
I always thought I'd have loads - apart from the physical issues, though, I know the cost would be too much!
(not meaning to pry and you've been fab telling me things, but do you have a family income on the larger side?)
As a wild aside - I also doubt I could keep up with laundry!
eBay! Fab tip.
I think she will be fab at brownies, dd1 wasn't interested, I'd have loved o see what different personalities 3/4/5 had
I knew you would ask about money!
We used to have an above average income, not massively above, but a little bit. We were doing fine, could pay the bills, could have the odd treat, couldnt go on holiday but then you cant with more than 2 kids as no one will have you!
Then it dropped by almost half due to the recession and H having to find whatever work he could (think NMW ). I couldnt get a job as I was 6 months pg at the time, and now we do get some tax credits and child benefit. When we got pg with #6, things were perfect and there was no reason to think that that wouldnt continue. Since then I have started my business so things are (hopefully) on the up.
In the good old days our plan was to buy a bigger house, but we are happy to stay where we are and make do. In fact we are both glad we couldnt find the perfect house when things were good as we would now be in negative equity, probably unable to pay the mortgage.
As I said, when you need to, you cope, you really do
We have been hit by the recession too,,DHs situation similar to yours. It's food bills get me. W do not eat extravagantly - we do eat from fresh, and high protein a lot as DH and I work out a lot but not to an excess and Im always prowling supermarkets for reduced stock.
Last month we were £800.
We don't drink much, and we don't throw much wasted food out. I honestly don't know how you do upping that by double the people!
I wont deny that that is an issue! One trick is that they only own one set of school uniform each. That means that it has to be washed nightly which means I can bulk out the load and it also means that I dont have piles of washing all over the house.
You also really do think about whether they need that top or those trousers, when you know that it will just add to the pile.
As I said though, you adapt. You would struggle to go from 2 to 6 or 8. But 2 to 3 is fine. And so is 3 to 4....you see what I am saying?
An aside - DH and I are both only children, we were intent one would not work, no aunts/uncles/cousins. I am sure your kids are fab! Perhaps we just don't know HOW to live in a large household though?
I always thought I would, have visions of maybe 6
I totally see what you are saying! And I think 8 to 9 is totally manageable.
I do a weekly at Aldi for £60 and then top up about £25 ish for milk and bread etc. My maximum budget is £120 and never ever spend that!
Where do you get most of your protein from? do you use a slow cooker and cheaper meat such as brisket, neck, etc? Do you use mysupermarket to compare prices?
I feel like Miss MoneyPenny on Superscrimpers
Shit, I didnt realise how stingy I am until now
I mostly make food from scratch, lots of big one pot meals like pasta with lentils, sauce and some veg for example
I keep big bags of dried chickpeas and lentils because it works out cheap, they are healthy and they bulk out meal
I have had some baby stuff since my first DC which saves A LOT of money, use reusable nappies (not all the time, can't be bothered sometimes) I also get all the free samples I can get, I put my info in the autofill settings on my internet so I can fill the forms in quick and wait for free stuff to come through the post, it helps a bit
There are all sorts of ways to scrimp and save money, its became kind of a hobby to me (bit sad maybe but its handy!)
If you need any big stuff for your baby have you tried looking on your local Freecycle site?
Not for things like sheets and stuff obnovs but you can get a lot of baby stuff for free on those sites. Like, baby swings, sterilisers, stuff like that.
I know! I swear I am not extravagant. This week for example, browsed tesco, I got two packs of chicken thighs and drumsticks for 50p each which I've roasted for tomorrow.
I don't use a slow cooker but I do have a big cast iron casserole and slow cook in it a lot.
I'm sure I could cut on some things - DH for example will only eat Heinz beans - but I couldn't cut it that much I don't think!
I rotate supermarkets too to get the offers at them all mostly
We could get an allotment?
Bells you will be fine either way. I am totally confident in that!
Rhonda have you thought about just growing veg in pots if you've got the space? Much less work than a vegetable patch and they can't be eaten by birds or rabbits, when I found out I could grow veg in pots I grew some potatos, purple sprouting brocolli, carrots and I've grew salad vegetables and all sorts
its great and saves a lot of cash especially if you grow potatoes because potatoes and vegetables can make up the majority of a meal
bella it isnt a hobby with me, its an obsession! Of course the problem is that I now cant shave a penny off our food budget if I need to! Are you at the "boil chicken carcasses for soup" stage yet? And deliberately cooking more than you need for one meal so you can use it for the next without spending more money on gas and electric? I got it baaaad! You will cope, you know you will Do you have someone you can ask for help with the children for the birth and the first few weeks? If you dont then Homestart can help.
Dont bother with the allotment, we tried that. We spent more in seeds and what have you than we ever saved.
Where are you? If you are in London then I am sure that counts for a fair bit of your budget. Try Lidl or Aldi. Honestly, it aint that bad and it saves a fortune. What is your weekly menu.
I'll post mine if you post yours
Pots would be good, but an allotment is very time and labour intensive, it really is more of a hobby.
I'm the youngest of 5 in our family and as much as I love them all, when I was growing up I envied kids with just one or two siblings.
Everything was 'make do and mend' and you can imagine the colour of the hand-me-down clothes by the time they got to me.
We were lucky in the sense that we were always fed, clothed and loved but I was so envious of kids with brand new uniforms, bedrooms of their own etc...
Then again, my elder siblings were envious of their friends who didn't have to help get their younger siblings ready for school in the mornings.
But all in all we had a happy childhood, although the 2 oldest couldn't wait to leave home for some peace and quiet and not to have to constantly help to look after the younger 3.
I don't think the amount of kids matters as much as long as the parents don't 'put upon' the older ones to help out all the time.
Some of the time yes, but on a daily basis isn't fair imo.
Sorry the "menu/allotment" bit was for Rhonda
Worra, I totally agree which is why I pay mine if they babysit. I chose to have 6 children, they didnt.
My grandmothers early life is a thread in itself, but suffice it to say that my great grandmothers example was one I chose NOT to follow.
Also, it means you can grow them in any little bit of space as long as its outdoors
And thanks very much, I'm starting to feel a bit better about the whole thing, its just a weird situation for me at the moment
I don't mind posting a week - its just a bit late right now if that's ok?
I might try pots, I'll score allot ment off my possible list.
I'll post tomorrow?
It must be so difficult for you Bella but we are here, always awake, always listening
Whereabouts are you? I am in the Midlands and would be happy to meet another "big momma" for a coffee.
Bells - you are obviously fab at this. One more, at this point, is so so doable!
Am off to my bed too Rhonda! Meet ya back here with a menu tomorrow!
Bogeyface I am at/past that stage, trust me!
It's a date bogey - sleep well
(Past the stage of boiling chicken carcasses)
My sister and brother was paid too Bogey but it wasn't until we were adults that they both admitted it affected their childhood in a negative way.
Sure they could do with the money but it was the fact they felt they couldn't say no if they wanted to...because they could see my Mum and Dad struggling.
Mostly all they wanted to do of an evening was go out with their friends like most teenagers would.
That's why my brother ended up leaving home at 17 to take an apprenticeship 60 miles away and my sister got married aged 19.
Rhonda You know what?
If you can afford it and are happy with what you spend then who am I to tell you that you shouldnt? Feeling a bit now, as you are clearly ok with what you eat and what you spend!
Happy to help if you would like to shave it a bit, but dont feel that you should just because I said so
Boiling it, picking off the last bits of meat and then reboiling?!
Thats not good Worra
Mine ask "Do you want to go out....[cheesy grin]" because they want the Sky box to themselves! They have even offered to do it for nothing before now, so that they can take over the lounge!
I am very aware of taking advantage, in fact I have the Duggars [growls] to thank for that. When I was having DD3 I saw one of the early Duggar shows (pre-big house and paid help) and saw the list of "jurisdictions" which was a sheaf of post-its for each child. I swore then that no child of mine, no matter how many I had, would be expected to do their parents jobs. I have stuck to that. They have one chore each, as I did as a child when there was only me and my sister, and have to take their clean washing and put it away. Thats it.
They dont wash floors, or make dinner or mow the lawn etc.
Worra I disagree strongly.
My husband is one of 5 from a poor Irish family who worked their arses off to send them to Uni and their mother educated them from nappies to read and write better than about 90% of mothers. They had a hugely happy childhood and are well balanced decent grown ups with good jobs.
I was one of two in a middle class family and my life was frankly shite.
You can't say 'Oh I'm from a big family so big families are shit' or 'I'm from a small family, small families are shit'.
If OP is a good mum family size is irrelevant.
There are some studies that show kids born close together into big families are more at risk of depression or something,i read it in an oliver james book,im hoping hes wrong though because i have 4 aged 4 and under!
I think it just depends on the person,the kids and the support you have.I only had one half brother 7 years younger than me but i hated my childhood,mostly because my mum was moody all the time and had no patience.My dh was one of 5 and had a great time!These are the reasons we both want a large family.
OP,i hope you get the result you want,and i will be keeping my eye on this because im a nosy cow
BridgetBidet please read my posts properly
I haven't said anyone or anything is shit
I merely related my own experience and that of my siblings
How can you 'disagree strongly' with someone's experience of growing up?
Because Worra, you were projecting your experience of growing up into your advice on how the OP should raise her kids when it may not be relevant.
Errr I wasn't 'projecting' anything, I was sharing my experience of growing up in a large family.
The same way as Bogey was sharing her experience of having a large family.
I take it the OP is looking for balance and not just agreement/MN hugs?
Wow I was all shaky and doom laden when my af was late and I only have 3 dc's. That made me realise that I really do not want another baby. I was one of five (youngest) and all of my sisters think I lived some kind of charmed upbringing .
Good luck Bella, if you can cope with 8 children, then 9 should be fine.
Okay, Worra, sorry, you were quite right.
How on earth does anyone afford eight children. I hope you get the support you need.
I was one of 5 growing up. Loved it for the most of it. We all helped out where we could (me more than others due to OCD tendencies)
I moved out at 19, and still now can't believe how quiet it is without all the hustle and bustle.
I do miss it sometimes.
I still go back there regularly to help out even
though all children are now grown up.
Bella - why don't you use your contraception properly?
I don't get it as I am sure you are an amazing mum but eight kids is surely a lot of hard work physically and financially. Did you subconsciously want more?
Can't be helpful re: managing a larger family as I only have 2 (wanted more, DH didn't).
However that's at least as helpful as anyone asking the op about contraception, or informing her of the ways she might have avoided pregnancy - not at all relevant! If she is, she is and knowing about the mirena now ain't gonna help!
OP - if you are, good luck with 8 -> 9. And good luck with whatever happens between you and your ex, hope you find a solution that's good for you all.
Oh and yanbu
I was stressed and shocked when I got my positives and they were very much planned and wanted! Sure yours will be equally as wanted, if a little less planned GL again.
Wow OP 9! Congrats. I hope you can work things out with their father it would be helpful im sure.
I only have 5 ( would love 6 but leaving it a few years) so can really help with the practicalities of 9. Hope it all works out though!. Its a shame none of you larger family mums seem to live near me - it gets lonely when everyone else i now in real life has one or two and thinks im a bit of a freak!
Oh would just like to agree with bogeyface on pretty much 100% of what shes said on here especially about chores etc. I expect my kids to tidy their bedrooms and the toys in the playroom etc but i dont have them do "adult" jobs or look after the younger children (they are too young for paid babysitting).
Your dh must be a millionaire to afford all those children so make sure he supports you.
Is your surname Walton, by any chance?
People can be so rude can't they?
In that snarky, passive agressive way so beloved by some.
Congratulations and I wish you a safe pregnancy, a quick birth and a lovely baby.
I hope you can sort things out with your husband and he steps up.
MrsDV I think it's a way of articulating - without actually saying it - a fear that Bella will have having a child she can't afford. There's a lot of resentment around that sort of thing at the moment. That's why it sounds passive aggressive, because people are thinking it, but don't want to say it because it's a woman at the start of a pregnancy which should be a joyful time.
Bella you are not an "it," I mean the situation not you
I think you are spot on brycie
But it is either very important for someone to state their horror at the situation or it isn't.
If it is they should say it (if they must)
If not, they shouldn't.
All this hinting gets on my nerves tbh.
I wish people would also realise that their resentment has been stoked by propaganda from this God-awful governement.mthey might unclench a little then.
Sorry to hijack again but bogey I'm not really ok with it! I'm just convinced that I'm not extravagant and that although I could cut costs a bit I couldn't afford to feed lots of people - maybe we eat too much!
I absolutely take my hat off to each and everyone of you with the big families. I can see how much work it is. There's a part of me would love the house full of children but apart from the actually having them bit, I know I couldn't cope < surveys existing chaos with only two...>
I really don't think we need to be nasty about people with large families - any more than people with small families. There are pros and cons to both.
Right - off to clean up a bit...
Agree MrsDeVere, propoganda by the government in the last 2 years has meant that that many larger families have been subject to the type of rude comments and abuse which has been hinted at in this thread. No idea of the OPs circumstances so cant comment but DH and I both work and support our children and yet the assumption is that we are "scroungers" and that we are the cause of all the countrys problems!
Five here as well
bogey i would like to see your menus and budgeting tips, should we do a specific thread? Maybe in larger families?
We do ok.but if i could save money to.put towards conservatory (ours needs replacing) that would be great!
Congrats op am sure you will be fine and hope your husband bucks up his ideas and supports you all xx
It is when 'benefits' comes into the equation that people feel they are entitled to comment.
Yes, people are entitled to comment when people are having children that the commenters are paying for. We don't know that's happening here though.
It has been assumed. Lots of things have been assumed.
blueshoes - MOST families on benefits are "normal" sized. I get annoyed at ANY family that stays on benefits when they have the ability to get off them. I also get annoyed at people who assume that all larger familes are on benefits as has happened on this thread. The government wont deal with the problem of people who wont help themselves so instead they have taken the easy way out and focused on a small number of highly visible families as scapegoats. Nevermind the thousands of mrs and mrs two children who havent worked for 10 years lets focus on someone easier to attack.
It's probably been assumed because it's very unusual to be able to afford nine children unless you're really, really wealthy, or unless you rely on the state. If you do rely on the state, it's a bit crummy to announce an careless pregnancy to a bunch of people who'll be paying for it. That's why this sort of comment comes. But nobody knows what the situation is. I hope everything works out for the OP but MrsDV that is why things will get "passive aggressive", it's probably better not to comment at all I suppose rather than be judgmental.
I guess children get "cheaper" as you go along, with having all the clothes and equipment.
Things have been assumed and the OP is not answering any questions about her financial circumstances.
She does not have to but the assumptions about a parent with 8 soon-to-be-9 children who has kicked her partner out with no apparent concern about her financial position, will continue to run on and on.
Let's face it, unless she is Helen Morrissey, it is the elephant in the room.
Yes, elephant in the room is a good way of putting it. And to be honest, if it was me, and I "picked up the vibe" that sympathy was in short supply if I said that was indeed the situation, I wouldn't want to have a lot of people going on at me, so I'd quietly let it lie.
Bella I hope you get the result you want. Whatever happens good luck and remember you will find support on here
I'm the youngest of 12, spread over 20 years and with no multiples. My parents brought us all up with no help from the state other than universal benefits like child benefit. They were able to use the University grant system for the oldest 10.
My Mum shopped at cash and carry places and bought in bulk (catering size quantities), she cooked everything from scratch, did most of her own baking, built good relationships with butchers and green grocers so got discounts or short dated stock. She didn't get the best quality meat or fish and there was nothing free range or organic about any of it. The house was fairly untidy and not sparkling clean. She made all the curtains, bedding, quite a lot of clothes herself.
We had a big house that they bought when they only had my eldest brother. It had a massive garden where my Dad grew veg, fruit, loads of soft fruit, and a conservatory where he grew amazing tomatoes.
Dad worked full time in a well paid job and picked up extra freelance work - he had 4-5 regular freelance jobs that paid well.
Mum didn't do paid work outside the home but did tonnes of volunteering though the parish and the various schools.
We didn't have expensive anything ever. We went on UK holidays - large rural cottages, camping. Every activity outside the home was like a military operation...
It wasn't a bed of roses growing up but that was for other reasons rather than the number of kids. As adults we remain close and extremely supportive of each other.
It can be done, it's not plain sailing and it's bloody hard work but it can definitely be done. Mum got very good at power naps
Hope everything works out for you OP
My oh was the youngest of 12
His parents did not claim benefits
Some MNers have a chip on their shoulders about 'affording children'
They feel their aspirations are the correct ones. Their aspirations are expensive.
Private schools, university, tuition, extra curricular activities, the right size house in the right area, holidays that do not involve caravans etc.
All these things are fine but not everyone feels the same.
Unfortunately if you do not, you are battered into submission with a big old baseball bat of 'well some of us care about our children's future'
What do you mean, a chip on their shoulder? I had the children I could afford - I would love to have had more, I love the stories on here of big families. I would like to have had a fourth child. It's normal to do what you can afford. Why not? You can't afford it when you have to ask other people to pay money for it. What's chippy about that?
Do you think the range of payments for famlilies was available when your partner was being brought up?
It's a chip if erroneous assumptions and your own values are projected onto someone else.
We have the children we can afford. What I see as essential may be different from you. It doesn't make me less caring or a worse parent.
No, top up benefits were not available yet they still had a large family.
Does that not suggest that people have children because they want them, not the money?
If you are not the sort to tsk and tut about people having babies they cannot afford without knowing anything about their circumstances, I am not talking about you.
What if the assumptions aren't erroneous and there are no value judgments?
Being able to afford something isn't really a value judgement, it's a wallet judgment. And I wanted an extra child and I couldn't. Do people have children because of money - I have no idea. Do they not not have children because of money - probably. I would.
Of course it's a value judgement.
If you think you should only have children if you can afford to sub them through uni or employ tutors etc.
Personally if a child is fed, housed, clothed, loved, valued and encouraged, you can afford them.
The rest is extra.
If it wasn't it would only be certain members of society who could 'afford' them.
Pretty much any assumption made on the basis of a post on the Internet is likely to be erroneous isn't it?
I have certainly seen some corkers on MN.
Aside from that, what are people telling the op to do if she is on benefits?
Have a termination? Do people really feel they have the right to do that because they pay taxes?
oh yes dont forget they must all have their own bedrooms as well mrsdevere have seen that line trotted out plenty on mnet.
we have no idea if the op is on benefits or not and if she is that doesnt mean she should have an abortion, that choice is hers and hers only.
Well, what do you mean by afford?
I probably, in theory couldn't afford to have ds2. On paper.
We have a 3 bedroom house so they share a room, we now only have 1 car and I walk to work, I keep ds1 clothes for ds2, I cut back on everything. Because we had a third child.
So technically, I couldnt afford him.
However, he has a roof over his head, clothes to wear, food to eat, days out, holidays, and lots of love. Lots of it.
So it depends on what your definition of afford is.
Dd was born when I was 19 and DH was 22.
We lived in a 1 bed flat. We had no car, almost every penny went on childcare and rent. So again, we couldn't really "afford" her.
She is 14 now and working towards taking 3 GCSE a year early. She's amazing. So I guess that not being able to afford her wasn't the end of the world.
And, just in case people get narky, we have never been on benefits. Not that I see a problem with anyone getting the support they need, but we were not entitled to anything.
FWIW, state benefits are there to support people who need them.
And IMHO if the op is in that situation where she needs help from the state as everyone seems to assume, well FFS, a newly single parent with 8 children? Would anyone actually begrudge her any help?
People are entitled to comment as they see fit-thats what this forum is about surely?
I would have loved to have had a bigger family but cant afford any more. And no I am not talking about not affording private schooling or a large house or holidays abroad-I am talking about we cant afford to house or feed another child and dont expect others to do so.
Having a 9th child when your relationship is on a shaky nail is completely irresponsible imo but I am sure I will get flamed<shrugs>
Tantrums: "well FFS, a newly single parent with 8 children? Would anyone actually begrudge her any help?"
Well, is she already on benefits and therefore not concerned. Or now needing benefits because of the unexpected predicament she found herself in?
You are very generously assuming the latter.
And the rest of the thread is ungenerously assuming the former.
But no one knows do they?
But it doesn't stop the sarky comments.
I thought I'd throw in a bit of generosity if that's ok.
yes heaven forbid we might assume the best about someone rather than the worst
and with regards to having a ninth child when her 'relationship is on a shaky nail' well we dont know that do we, again, she say sshe has thrown him out, may be she found he has had an affair or he became abusive. it could be that the op thought her relationhsip was fine and she has literally JUST discovered something that has made her reassess that opinion, that does happen. hell you see it all the time on the relationship boards.
By afford, I mean is my income large enough to feed, clothe and house my children without relying on other people. Normal definition?
"If it wasn't it would only be certain members of society who could 'afford' them."
But it is that way, either the very richest or the very poorest.
Op have you actually poas yet?
I encountered hostility when we has a third DC -fairly close to previous two always our plan. The assumptions people made and the things they felt justified in saying to me - was .
I've said on here before the large families I know 4+ DC all have at least one working parent and the second usually working part time - people tell me that isn't 'normal'.
I do sometime wonder if it actually easier in some way as you know certain expensive things are ruled out so you focus on things you can give the DC you are more out of the consumer society. While when you have 2 or 3 DC many things are just out of reach that you so feel you should give or be able to give the DC.
OP good luck and Im sure youll make it though fine you come across as incredible resource and strong.
My income on paper was not enough to do all that with Dd or ds2.
So we made sacrifices, cut back, did a bit of overtime.
There is a difference between giving someone the benefit of the doubt and turning a blind eye.
Well, OP is not exactly jumping in with clarifications as to whether she is claiming benefits, how she is going to support 9 dcs or when she realised her partner was a non-starter. She does not have to be but it is hardly surprising if others draw their inferences accordingly.
OP: "I was on the pill, not for very long though and I did forget to take it 2 days in a row so its not really a question of 'how could this possibly happen' just wasn't expecting it or planning to have any more
Kicked husband out a week ago because of his behaviour so having more kids just wasn't on my mind at all"
But having sex with a loser knowing you missed taking pills 2 days in a row is!
No, but it's the way of the world that everyone assumes she's on benefits.
It's not something I ever assume about anyone, I tend to think that I have no idea about people's financial concerns, and therefore have absolutely no right to discuss it.
Especially when the op herself has not mentioned it.
She did not entitled her thread "any advice on how to raise 8 children whilst relying entitely on state benefits" did she?
Pretty nasty assumption to make IMO
Come on OP have you taken the test? !
Hope you're ok....
I am not surprised she hasnt come back, I wouldnt either if I had been the subject of some of the frankly vile comments and assumptions on here.
brycie I am neither very rich or very poor.
I have 5 children.
One is no longer with me so technically I have 4 but I have had 5 children.
We have our own house and we both work but have a low ish income due to circumstances beyond our control. Benefits played no part in our decision to have more.
I am old enough to ave been a parent long before working benefits were introduced.
The myth that large amounts of people have children fr the money is just that.
Everyone is entitled to 15 hours of nursery provision now. That is 15 hours more than we got when dd and ds's 1&2 were small. I don't begrudge well off parents taking advantage of it. Why do they begrudge the ess well off having it?
What is this culture of envying the poor all about?
It is utterly bizarre and more so because it is easy to make yourself poor and get the lifestyle so coveted by many.
Funny how they don't do it though.
This is the first thread I have ever read which has made me feel ashamed, that's right, ashamed, to be a mumsnetter. Maybe not all of it, but enough of the comments mean I will not be reading it to my dh.
Op, people have said some very critical things, but some of the comments are nice and supportive. I hope the result of the pregnancy test is what you hopes for, if not, we're here if you need to chat
fryingpan I don't know why you feel ashamed. Mumsnet is not a club full of like minded people (it would be pretty dull if it was).
I'm not saying people have children for money. I'm saying affordability is removed from decision-making for some parents.
Why are you talking about envying the poor? Someone said earlier, surely we don't begrudge people the money. For me, I would rather have spent the money expanding my own family or spent it on my own children. Of course. Just as the people receiving money want to spend it on theirs.
Eh because not everyone on benefits is poor? I know there is a section of mumsnet who like to deny this though.....
"Maybe not all of it, but enough of the comments mean I will not be reading it to my dh."
Do you normally? How the winter nights must fly by.
I know people have differing views, but there's a way to say your view without being catty or harsh.
Brycie, that kinda comment is exactly what i'm talking about. He takes an interest in what i'm interested in. I can't see how that's a bad thing to be honest?
For what it's worth, i'm one of 6 and I constantly heard comments made to my parents about how they had too many children, they couldn't possibly afford them etc. I never felt like I was missing out on anything. I love large families, if I could have more children I would, but it seems my body doesn't want to play ball.
But brycie earlier on you were talking about not being able to afford children I think, or what that someone else?
The point seemed to be about not have children you can't afford, wasn't it?
And there were implications that the op was raising her 8 children on benefits and shouldn't be having another child.
When I first read this thread I didn't think about benefits at all.
I did however wonder why on earth you would choose to have unprotected sex with your husband when your relationship was on decidedly shakey grounds.
I know women who are amazing mums and can still be as amazing with one child or 10 (I am not one if these women ).
Pink , David Cameron was on benefits when Ivan was alive.
We know nothing about op! Her husbands behaviour might have been that's he's a workaholic with his own company and a seven figure income but no time for the kids for all we know. To call him a loser is a bit much!
<still pondering food bills though and how the blazes do you keep up with the washing>
And for all those criticising op surely her husband who was the other half of the wobbly relationship was just as responsible for this often risk pregnancy!
Oh come on, you think people with relationship problems don't occasionally have sex with their partners?
Often risk? Potential that shoud read.
Tantrums, I don't think you have followed
I'm sorry fryingpan, it wasn't catty so much as .. I was just amused that's all. I had an image.
Of course they have sex but why unprotected sex. (Or not follow up said sex with the morning after pill).
Sorry Brycie. Ds is teething so i'm sleep deprived and touchy.
You know what brycie I probably haven't.
I read about the op being on benefits.
I read the discussion about not having children you can't afford.
Maybe I just missed the point.
Brycie: "I'm not saying people have children for money. I'm saying affordability is removed from decision-making for some parents."
Absolutely. The reason affordability is not a factor in having unprotected sex with a soon-to-be-ex partner could be because there is an expectation that someone else will pick up the tab.
How nice to be cavalier about contraception.
rhondajean: "And for all those criticising op surely her husband who was the other half of the wobbly relationship was just as responsible for this often risk pregnancy!"
The OP was on the pill. She was the one taking responsibility for contraception. If she told her partner she missed taking the pill and and her partner still went ahead, you have a point. But otherwise her partner would assume she has taken care of it.
Can I just ask where the actual fuck is there any indication in any of the ops posts that she expects someone else to pay for her children?
No where that I read.
And bollocks to it was her responsibility, unless she lied and said to him she hasn't missed a pill, noone should ever assume.
I still think its really expensive and hard work but bloody hell this poor woman, even if everything you all think was true its hardly helpful right now is it?
If you've already got 8 kids you don't 'forget' to take the pill. Jesus Christ. People just have no responsibility.
It doesn't say anywhere that she's on benefits. MrsDV said it's a bit passive aggressive and I said that's because people think she's on benefits.
OP, I can't even begin to imagine your shock - best of luck
What if the OP had said she was Catholic and didnt use contraception, would the comments be the same then I wonder?
And why the hell can't a woman with 8 kids forget something that every woman who has ever taken the pill has forgotten at some point? In fact, I would imagine that she has more excuse for forgetting the odd time!
I was under the impression that we all make mistakes sometimes, it must be wonderful to be so fucking perfect.
I agree with Fryingpan, this thread has really shown MN in a bad light, its disgusting what some people have said on here, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Would you say these things to her face?
I don't know any Catholics who don't use contraception (and I know a lot), for me it doesn't change anything.
I've missed pills before and had sex but I always remembered to take emergency contraception afterwards - you have 72 hours to take it (admittedly it does get less effective over time).
So before I started ttc I had been sexually active for 15 years and I can honestly say I never had a contraception malfunction I did not sort out with the morning after pill.
Oh by the way I'm not bother about the benefit angle to this I just think it isn't actually all that hard to manage contraception.
Oops bother = bothered.
I know many Catholics who would never dream of using contraception. Guess it depends on how traditional/devout someone is.
Its not hard to manage contraception, missing 2 days on the trot too? She didn't have to have sex, if she thought she must there's other options, condoms, morning after pill.
Anyway good luck OP.
Yes there are other options, but its done, the mistake has already been made. How on earth is slagging her off about it going to help her?
She has learned her lesson I am sure! This is just benefit bashing by stealth and it makes me sick.
Her body, her choices. But if she forgets two pills and has sex, she may well get pregnant. That's her business, but I'm surprised she finds it shocking.
Bogeyface: if people are benefit bashing (which they aren't but feel free to copy and paste) it's no doubt because they would rather spend the money on their own children, which is neither disgusting or shameful.
My dh is Catholic. We are religious about using contraception.
And I think the idea of Catholicism is also an assumption?
As I said "benefit bashing by stealth" lots of ifs and buts, but basically saying that if she is on benefits then she has no place having another baby, accidentally or otherwise.
Your own comment about her "casually annoucing her pregnancy to the people who will be paying for it" (paraphrasing) was particularly distasteful.
The mistake has already been made.
But if it is the result of being cavalier about contraception because there is a safety net of the state picking up the tab, then my sympathy level is very low that she predictably finds herself in this situation.
No the idea of Catholicism to ask if the reactions to her unplanned pregnancy would be the same if she didn't use contraception for religious reasons.
Youur sympathy level is very low? So you have already assumed that the OP is claiming benefits and is happy to keep popping babies out at the taxpayers expense then?
My reaction won't be different.
In fact, if she was truly practising along the lines of the Catholic faith, she should have refrained from sex with a husband she was about to kick out of the house.
As it were, Bogey, she was supposedly using the pill. So she is NOT a fully practising Catholic.
Yes I think it's unfair to have nine children and expect other people to pay for them. Sometimes those people are struggling just as much. It's nice that you don't mind; I do"If it is the result of being cavalier about contraception because there is a safety net of the state picking up the tab, then my sympathy level is very low". Yes me too.
Still we don't know, they might be on KKKKKK.
Bogey, yes, there is nothing to indicate my assumption is wrong. On the contrary ...
I couldn't care less how much of my tax or that of dh goes to those on benefits.
Anyone of you could give up work tomorrow and choose to live on benifits if you wanted, I think people choose not to as it's not the wonderful life some like to make it out to be.
The whole benefits thing is totally hypothetical. No one knows. But one poster said "this is all a bit passive aggressive" so I said why - and let's face it Mrs DV agreed with me. That's why it's passive aggressive - it's the elephant in the room. (blueshoes said that?)
But we just don't know, so don't go saying, you've assumed this or that, it's just hypothetical.
So is she pregnant again or what?
9 children! <faints>
Id never be able to remember all their names.
If OP is on benefits then is the universal credit/ benefit cap thing going to make life hard for her? I genuinely don't know much about the changes coming but it might be worth OP looking into it to see if her income might be negatively impacted. Apologies is benefits are not an issue for OP.
In fact being so hypothetical and talking about chips on the shoulder and envying the poor probably has a place on another thread. This wouldn't be the place really.
Your own comment about her "casually annoucing her pregnancy to the people who will be paying for it" (paraphrasing) was particularly distasteful.
Why paraphrase when you can leave words out?
"If you do rely on the state, it's a bit crummy to announce an careless pregnancy to a bunch of people who'll be paying for it. That's why this sort of comment comes. But nobody knows what the situation is. I hope everything works out for the OP but MrsDV that is why things will get "passive aggressive", it's probably better not to comment at all I suppose rather than be judgmental."
If the OP was not on benefits then they would have corrected the assumption.
Hopefully the thread is a wind up given the OP has not been back. Very irresponsible to have sex after missing contraception, even more so in a bad relationship.
Spreading yourself alone between nine children will be almost impossible. I grew up in a large family and its something i would never want for myself. Very little time, too many chores and being responsible for the younger ones, no quiet time to study or privacy etc.
If it was me, I wouldn't have corrected anyone.
I would have thought it was no ones fucking business but mine how much money I had, felt very sad that people were judging me and hidden the thread.
It's people's business, it's on an international internet forum, on the most travelled thread title, and could involve their money as well as hers. I don't really buy that it's no one's "fucking" business. People are entitled to say what they want - doesn't take away from the fact that it would probably be more tactful not to.
one of my face book pals has nine she would of had 11 but twin girls died after been born far too early ..
Did she post on this forum she was on benefits?
People are always reading between the lines on mumsnet and asking questions. Like, on every thread, putting their own interpretations and experiences into their responses. After it became hypothetical on this thread (chips on shoulders, envying the poor) people just gave their views. It's called free speech.
I mean, you have put your own interpretation on to it, which is that it doesn't matter where the income comes from. It's a different opinion which you are free to express.
Of course it isnt any of your business! I agree with Tantrum, I wouldnt have come back either.
At no point did she say she was worried about money, at no point did she mention benefits/wages/ML etc. all she did mention about money was that her ex will probably be an arse about child support and that she will have to take steps to ensure he pays.
She asked if SWBU to be shocked at this pregnancy, which on balance she is a bit because she must have known the risk after missing her pill, but thats all she asked.
She did not mention money or ask for advice on money. But as always the usual suspects steamed in assuming the worst and started having a go.
Actually, thats a point. She said that her ex would probably not pay anything. She DIDNT say "he cant, he is on JSA" or similar, so it sounds to me as if he is working, because otherwise she cant do anything to make him pay, the CSA wont be interested.
Id never be able to remember all their names.
Arf duck Maybe they all wear nice little laminated name badges? <helpful>
I think the fact that she said her ex would not be paying anything would tend more to the other conclusion to be honest. Perhaps that's why people made the assumption.
It's only none of my business if it doesn't involve any of my money. So it may or may not be my business - we simply don't know.
And to be honest, I wouldn't feel the need to say "it migth be my business" if I wasn't repeatedly told that it's none of my business.
From the OP - Doubt it Property but I may have to take action if he doesn't
in response to being asked if her ex will support them financially.
What action can she take if her ex is on JSA? She would be awarded £5 per week which frankly isnt going to be worth the hassle is it?
Yes - I know. Like I said, maybe they have kkkkk - maybe he is seriously loaded enough to maintain two households and nine children. That would be a rare thing but obviously not impossble. But the payments don't count anyway do they.
I think (as you're reading back) it might be helpful to read some of my posts too. Like the ones that say "it doesn't say anywhere that she's on benefits", that sort of thing. Just to be in the loop.
They don't have a lot of money. OP described money saving tactics such as growing veg and using handmedowns from previous children. Which is commendable. But that does not put her or her dh in megabucks category.
The fact that the OP did NOT mention finances surely points to the fact that she is already on benefits. If I had 9 children and not sure whether my ex would pay child support, surely I would be shitting myself.
But not OP. Just shocked and stressed about no.9 on the way but life goes on, apparently ...
Ok I'm back everyone, I am pregnant!
Basically yes I did miss 2 pills in a row, husband didn't know I was on the pill anyway (it wasn't a secret, he just didn't know) had a 'good' day with him which is why I did have sex with him, wasn't the best idea to miss 2 pills but sex and getting pregnant just wasn't on my mind.
As for money issues, well soon-to-be-ex-dh does have a job, I make a tiny amount of money through things like mystery shopping and selling stuff on ebay. I am very frugal and children are a lot cheaper because I already have previous DCs things stored for the next baby and I breastfeed which is free.
I will do what I have to do to get ex to pay and I will need some kind of help, I haven't quite figured it all out yet. (Got some money saved when I realisedi didn't want to carry on with husband forever)
My husband didn't do anything with dcs, never helped, he did pay though (he isn't rich or anything, I'm just frugal/quite good with money.. I think)
And no, looking after 9 children on my own isn't impossible, I've pretty much been doing that with 8 all this time apart from the financial side, I'm sure I can manage. People are great at coping with what ever situation they are in, its not likee we haave much of a choice once it has happened
Haven't been on mn all day because I've been very busy as you can probably imagine, Saturday with 8 dcs
I wish you all the best with your pregnancy bella
I hope you work something out with the ex (I don't mean getting back with him).
I am sure you will manage with this one just as you have with the others.
Keep well and good luck
Well bells congratulations! I'm sure you will cope admirably.
Thanks for coming back to let us know and I hope all this doesn't annoy you. Lots of assumptions happening.
I am saddened that you felt you had to explain your finances to a bunch of strangers, thanks to the comments above. MN can indeed be a nest of vipers at times
I hope if you ever get pregnant again Brycie that no-one reacts to your news with a
How rude you are. It is not your place to be sad for the OP.
Oh no I wasn't reacting to the news, you misunderstood me. I was agreeing with Bogeyface that mumsnet is a nest of vipers and that's really sad.
I'm not sad for Bella, she seems very cheerful and I'm sure she'll manage
(I might have been being sarcastic which would have thrown you)
I think perhaps we are all being a little sarcastic now
LOL ok then
<not being sarcastic honest>
none of this annoys me but I can see how it could annoy a lot of people, people on benefits, women who are pregnant or have more children than most, even 3 kids can be considered too many by some
Well congratulations OP. I hope that you can reach some amicable arrangement with your dh.
congrats Bella. You're an old hand at this...you'll be just fine
are you a traveller OP?
Congrats OP. Really have a great pregnancy.
Actually I missed the traveller thing. What the hell is that about?
Not a bad question. Nothing at all to do with how many children she has, was something entirely different that suggested she might be.
It's not a bad thing to be asked if you are, you know, no need to get offended on her behalf. Bloody rude actually.
I'm willing to bet if the OP's DC were called Tarquin, Persephone, etc she would be getting a very different response.
Well coming on the back of the assumptions of her being some benefit scrounging slapper I would say that yes, it is offensive actually, because of the the negative associations that many people make with Travellers.
Only if I personally had said anything about benefits or anything negative. Don't treat people as a homegenous mass.
I have no negative associations with travellers.
If we are going to stereotype travellers - they don't boot their husbands out do they?
Agree with the comment about TArquin btw.
And apart from anything else what the actual fuck relevance would being a traveller have???
Nobody is stereotyping travellers, other than you who is assuming that it is a negative thing to be asked. It isn't anyhting to be ashamed of you know, and its quite offensive of you to make it out to be negative or stereotypical at all.
BlahdyCold and Rhonda: I don't know her children's names. Do you not mind some assumptions then. Like, you can assume all kinds of things about posters but other people can't?
Brycie there are more than you on this thread, not everything I say is about you.
Oooh beg pardon. But if you object to people making assumptions you shouldn't make them yourselves about anyone. Not just me.
Someone specifically mentioned the children's names last night actually.
However yes it is one of my hates about this site that people read between the lines all the time. I suppose part of it is just human nature but it's quite pathetic the way people do tend to cling to their preconceptions at times even after the op will have corrected the facts.
The good still usually outweighs the bad though, and I've seen people get a lot of help, and even occasionally been able to help a little myself, which is nice.
Yep I'm technically a traveller but over the past year I've been seperating myself from a lot of aspects that come with being a traveller
Well I live in a house so I don't actually travel but I am one by blood, the programmes on the tv do portray travellers in 1 way which is true for a lot of travellers but not all and yep, there are people that would call me a whore for kicking my husband out or using contraception. I put my children in school and they will stay there until they've finished unlike a lot of others
There is a great side which I like but a lot of negetives too.. but remember not everything you see on tv is real and they only show 1 group of travellers, when we first watched gypsy weddings we were all like 'WHAT!!???' Using 15 year old girls to speak for a huge group of people makes no sense and I personally don't agree with the way a lot of travellers raise their children, I'm trying to get away from the bad side and there are actually quite a lot of traveller women who leave their husbands, in some of the womens refuges there's a high number of traveller women and children
There's even one (maybe more) specifically for travellers so its quite a big problem I would say
One reason I ask is that I wanted to mention that there are specific supports available to traveller women that might be able to help you in your current situation. If you are near london look up solace womens aid, they are very good and can give some advice.
Don't mind the posters above who assume being a traveller is a bad thing.
rhonda - I agree mainly the good outweighs the bad, sometimes it just seems like a couple of posters can change the whole tone of a thread, a couple of people get arsey and lots more follow.
OP - the programmes clearly aren't typical if your spelling is anything to go by, based on your typing ability I'd guess you weren't pulled out of school at a young age!
Tv programmes tend to focus on the most extreme aspects of anything, bella.
Do you normally have easy pregnancies?
Thanks but not near london
Ermahgerd education is pretty low especially in the older travellers but things are changing and in my opinion, it really makes no sense to take kids out of school in this day and age but plenty do
Rhonda they're usually easy, I really am lucky in that way!
Oh that's good! Fingers crossed this one goes smoothly. When will the baby be due? (are you a teeny bit excited?)
I'm sure everything will work out for you.
Of course people read between the lines, half the time that's how you can offer help. And you're reading between the lines yourself with your assumption of what posters would think of differently named children.
Don't mind the posters above who assume being a traveller is a bad thing.
Who said that? I certainly didnt! I said that some people do have negative beliefs about travellers and frankly I thought that you were one of them, especially the way that you asked so bluntly after a thread full of benefit bashing.
And you're reading between the lines yourself with your assumption of what posters would think of differently named children.
Err no, thats just knowing MN!
Well some people make assumptions on other kinds of experience which aren't necessarily wrong. That's just life.
Well then you were wrong in your assumptions, weren't you bogey?
Thanks for the congrats
I could be as frugal with our income as I like but I still couldnt afford 9 dcs without a huge amount of help from the welfare state. Good luck with the pregnancy should you decide to continue with it op but perhaps have a look into how the new universal benefit will effect your household income because I am sure it will...
What a lovely post pink
You are a delight aren't you?
nice use of the .... at the end there. For maximum PA affect.
Now now. We'll all be helping Bella out in our own way.
Mrs devere please feel free to check my other posts on other threads-I often end with... I do it when letter writing too-no idea why just a thing of mine. In no way passive aggressive as I think I have made my own point of view clear about the op's situation. I dont care if she has 9 or 99 children as long as she and or her dh can afford them....
Definitely continuing with it pink, what's done is done (my choice) most importantly my DCs and I won't be starving, will have a roof over our heads and will be loved and cared for
Also you need to remember I've already got the items needed for a baby (and when the baby gets older)
I grew up in a big family once there was 8 kids and my parents. My parents never relied on benefits but there wasn't much money.
I loved growing up with my siblings, there was always someone to play with and always such joy and laughter.
Wishing you all the best in your pregnacy
Pink not sure if you had read but I'm no longer with my husband, shall I give my children away now my financial situation has changed?
Actually i thought the way the new universal benefit worked meant it wouldnt affect existing children but would come into force for those born after a certain date? Either way its a pile of crap that as usual.the gov targets those without a voice, disabled, working poor etc. They realky dont give a shite.
Op if you are preg then i hope it all goes smoothly for you, i cant see one more making that much of a difference if you can cope with eight you can manage one more. I wish you and your family the best for the future and hope your dh pulls his socks up so that even if you are not together he supports you and the children xx
Congratulations op, a baby is a baby, whether it's your first or your ninth you'll still love it, care for it and yes you will cope. There are some miserable sods out there, eh! x
Yeah I just saw your lovely one on the thread about the teenager killed by a negligent train driver. Like I said. You are an utter delight.
bella you have shown such grace on this thread. You have remained polite and restrained despite provocation. I am sure you will manage beautifully. I am sorry that your husband has proved to be a bit rubbish.
I would love more children. I stopped at 5 due to my age really. I still secretly yearn for another
more but it is not going to happen.
Thanks for the link Virginia it will be helpful for someone I am working with.
Yes I do understand that you have seperated from your dh but it was unclear whether or not this was a permanent split?
Noone is asking you to give up your dcs. I merely pointed out that if you are in receipt of benefits-even if its only cb-then if the government decide to curtail it to 2 dcs then it would be a massive drop in your income?...
Wow mrsdevere and you call me passive aggressive? I too would have loved more dcs-have actually been pregnant 10 times but we cant afford any more sadly...
Pink: it won't be a problem for Bella as existing claimants will be protected. In fact it's a good argument for having a ninth baby sooner rather than later, although Bella doesn't seem all that worried anyway.
Yes thats what i thought brycie existing claimants wont be affected.
They cant apply the rules retrospectively.
For now brycie but quite honestly I think that will change in another couple of years-I think the government will have no choice but to limit it to 2 dcs.
If they do then I will lose out too as we have 3 dcs and I really rely on that money but to go from cb for 9 dcs down to 2 would be a huge drop-I am shit at maths but sm sure its a lot!!....
I'm not passive aggressive. I am sarcastic and rude.
But I don't blame grieving parents for the horrific loss of their children or hint that pregnant women should terminate.
It would be about maybe six thousand?
I'm not passive aggressive. I am sarcastic and rude.
I am not hinting that the op should terminate mrsdevere-again if you cared to read some of my other posts then you would find out my views on termination are mixed. Btw I didnt find anything you said either rude or sarcastic-sorry....
I belive most people can afford a baby.
Babies are not that expensive, many things parents to be buy are a waste of money.
It's eye watering the amount people have spent on a pram like the Icandy £600, cots pricing over £400 Moses baskets £100 I mean its crazy and nappy wrappers, baby monitors an egg thing that tell how hot the room is. Sensor pads for baby cots.
With 8 previous children I bet the op will not need to buy anything
MrsDeVere thanks very much and 5 is loads in most peoples books including mine! You'll likely have grand kids some time soon enough
Well pink it is permanent and I would personally be open to what ever benefits they say I'm entitled to although I didn't start off in this situation
I've got some savings from when I realised I didn't want to carry things on with ex, also stocked up on some supplies! Extra DCs (in my opinion and of course depending on what you spend money on) don't cost anywhere near as much as the first DC
Hmmm....interesting posts Pink
You posted this.....
"I dont care if she has 9 or 99 children as long as she and or her dh can afford them.... "
and then, a little later, this.....
"If they do then I will lose out too as we have 3 dcs and I really rely on that money"
So, who is paying for your children then?
I cant afford a 4th child Mcchristmas-and I am not talking about fancy prams-I am currently using the 9 year old buggy I had for my 1st ds. We couldnt afford to feed/clothe another child.
Am very of large families....
We are paying for our dcs-apart from cb which was universal-I dont claim any other benefits-never claimed tax credits for example as I had too many horror stories about mistakes and having to repay huge amounts.
Tbh we couldnt really afford a 3rd child as dont have enough room in house and we had to buy a bigger car but we had to try and shoulder the burden and of course having a child is a delight....
Also I think it easy to target single mothers on benefit, what I would love to see is reforms on the prison cost rather than parents bringing up the next generation.
That's where is government should be trying to cut cost £1200 per week for 1 person in prison.
Sorry op if I have come across harshly-I really do hope it works out for you. All the best with the pregnancy.
1 extra child is not a lot of food, you can get 2nd hand clothes or use clothes from previous children.
Sorry I am with Pink somewhat here. I'd love to have had an extra child and I'd love to spend extra money on my exctra chld and not other people's extra children.
I'd love to know whether all the benefits bashers have actually worked out whether their household contributes more in tax to the economy than they take back put in services, given that apparently 60 per cent of uk households are in deficit.
I am sure I am probably part of the deficit rhonda seeing as I am a sahm so not paying tax at the moment. However I would be far more in deficit if I decided to have 9 dcs and let someone else pick up the tab....
Net contributor here! Your argument seems to be based on the fact that it's not real money and the money doesn't exist and doesn't belong to anyone so it doesn't matter.. in that case I wouldn't mind having more of it and spending it on my own children
Is that two admissions of benefit bashing?
Diffo are you a troll?
Or just fucking rude?
I'm late to this thread but, being rude about the names of children is really fucking below the belt. That's not on Diffo, not on at all.
Just fucking rude I think!
How about posting your dc's names on here so we can take the piss?
Erm I'm not the only person to point on her kids names are weird
I've reported you too, Diffo. You are incredibly rude.
no idea if OP is a troll but 4 of those names appears on my dcs class list so i dont think you can base trolldom on that.
I commented on the names right at the beginning of this thread, I then said my was meant to be a purely because I'm in awe of someone who had 8 children and doesn't get their names muddled up, something I can't manage with only 2DC
However, I never said the names are weird, because they're not! I have a relative called johnjoe.
No different to calling sisters Lilian and Marianne. I have cousins (twins) called Yseult and Ysolde which (and MN enlightened me on this a few years back) are variations of the same name. DH's family are endlessly called Anne and Marie.
Lillyann and Violet-Ann isn't that much of a stretch for the imagination.
Ineed I only have 5 and I constantly call them half names - for example dc4 is always ro-em which is half her name half the babies name!.
Oh I missed that deleted post
DCs haven't complained about their names and no problems with them so oh well
Yeah it is pretty rude and Diffo, I'm pretty sure you're the first one to actually call the names weird
That's what I do with my 2 5dcsnot sure how I'd manage with more.
Fwiw OP, I like the names
oh and OP i called my last child Rosemary and was met with horror, I dont care i like it so in the words of my 8 year old "meh"
Congrats Bella. Hope all goes well with your pregnancy. I'm sure your new little one will be very loved, just like your others obviously are, and that's the most important thing
Oh I've just caught up with this.
Congratulations. OP, can I just say you have conducted yourself with absolute dignity throughout this thread which is more than I can say for a lot of the other contributors.
You have even explained your financial situation to a bunch of strangers who seem to be under the misguided impression that it is somehow their business.
I honestly hope that none of the delightful people on this thread ever go through financial problems. I hope that you are never in a position where you may have to ask for help from the state.
Because, I am also sarcastic and rude.
And I would actually take great pleasure in letting you know how unhappy I was "paying for your children"
You should be ashamed of yourself. The op has been a lot more dignified and calm than I would have been in her situation.
It is our business now Tantrums have a read
Because she has the temerity to have left her marriage and therefore as she may now have to claim benefits, her whole financial life is now fair game for scrutiny by complete strangers, obviously After all, they cant afford more children so why should they pay for hers?
Makes me sick.
That is, those that think they have the right to ask such things and say it is their business because it their tax that make me sick, MN truly at its worst.
Wow good luck! I'm really in awe of people who have big families successfully! Does it reach a certain number and then it doesn't matter if there are more or is the jump always hard? I'm into the superscrimper lifestyle - I would love to pinch some ideas! I dont have a large family (yet?) but could probably learn from you lot so will lurk on the large families board
Ignore some opinions on this thread - no one has the right to assume your circumstances. You have every right to be a little shocked and surprised at a new pregnancy. My pregnancies were planned yet I still felt shocked - hell I'm still shocked at being pregnant right now! (11 weeks!)
I hope everything goes well and if you do find out that you are pregnant I hope you have a smooth ride and a lovely little bundle for your whole family to enjoy. Best of luck.
no, still not my business.
and its quite sickening that you think it is
should she stay in a bed relationship then, just so she wont need any help from the state?
The state benefit system which is there for exactly the reason to help parents with children who find themselves in a position they were not expecting?
Im sure in her position brycie youd let your dcs starve rather than ask for help?
Wishing you luck OP.
My job involves systems and administration support to the Benefits and Taxation department of a council. Recently we were sending letters out to claimants to warn them about the Benefit cap starting in April. Some are going to be losing almost £200 per week. This is for an area where a 3 bed property is £120 - £150 a week so not an expensive area.
I am not try to pry into your financial affairs, bella but please be aware of this forthcoming cap. Not all benefits are counted and any maintenance is exempt but if you claim or need to claim help with housing costs, the amount you get could be significantly lower after April.
am assuming that the Op is in Ireland?
from the no of children and the names?
I work for an English council, this may not apply or be different in other places.
That's quite an assumption to make! That's kind of like saying 'oh your childs name is amir, you must live in Egypt'
I think AJaney is actually just trying to help on this thread. I raised a similar point re benefit caps earlier (although I don't have any clue of the details). It is best that Bella knows that the Tory changes might impact on a large family and therefore she is forewarned and able to investigate it sooner rather than later. As sad as it is, it may influence her decision to stay with her husband. If benefits are harshly capped then it will put a lot of women in very awkward positions. And I'm not encouraging her to stay in an unhappy marriage, rather I would prefer her to make a decision with all th circumstances taken into account. Thanks to Dave, choices for those with unenviable lives are diminishing.
Thanks Property, I was just trying to help. Someone who has not used the benefits system before as a lone parent with a larger family could find their entitlement change dramatically after April.
Perhaps we should all just pop out 9 kids then if it so hunky-dory?....
congrats OP - you sound level headed and I'm sure you'll cope great.
Some posters though are so rude! I am a single parent and have 5 children and I know what it's like to be judged so unfairly and feel like I have to justify myself. People are just jealous and let silly things about not being able to afford consumables and dress their children in Boden prevent them from having more children.
People are just jealous and let silly things about not being able to afford consumables and dress their children in Boden prevent them from having more children.
That's also a bit rude though to generalise about why people may only have a small family. It could be very hurtful to someone who was unable to have (more) children, for example. There are many, many, very valid reasons for not having more than one or two children.
I dont have more children because I cant afford them. HA HA boden clothes? mine are dressed in primark or even charity shop!
But pink, it's obviously eas to get other people o pay for your children do why dont you just 'pop' some more out?
If its that easy why don't we all do it?
Because it isn't that easy is it?
Just like women don't actually 'pop' out babies.
Even ones on benefits. They come out the same way as yours do
pink I dont get what you are trying to say?
Yes if you want 9 children, have 9. If you dont, then dont.
Its not actually for any one to decide how many children a person can have.
FFS the OP has very kindly outlined her financial situation including the fact HER DH HAS A JOB
if she needs financial assistance from the state because of a relationship breakdown, its none of your business is it?
Congratulations Bellabreeze, you come across as a fantastic role model for your children
Gosh some people are unbelievably bitter. It's not always as black and white as some of you would like to think.
I wish you all the luck in the world bella, you'll find plenty of support here on MN no matter what your situation turns out to be.
Keep posting and congratulations.
Don't say that MrsD I was hoping to hold my nose have dp blow in my mouth and ds5 just pop out!
The op's estranged dh has a job that can afford them 9 dcs? highly doubt that plus the fact that she herself said she doubts he will cough up for them-her words.
No I cant afford 9 dcs because I would have to rely on state handouts and if everyone decided to fuck personal responsibilty then we would all go to hell in a handcart....
Jesus woman you are like a dog with a bone. The OP has not mentioned benefits. You know nothing about her.
I work with families. Some are large and they all have disabled children. Some of them refuse to claim any benefits apart from CB. They will not even claim DLA.
You are projecting your bile onto a stranger on the internet. Making up all sorts of things about someone you do not know.
You are determined to be right because then you get to feel like you have made a supreme sacrifice for the greater good.
You just had the amount of children you decided to have. Well done.
Pink, I think that travellers traditionally do have large families and they don't tend to claim benefits (you can't claim unless you have a fixed address). They generally support themselves.
No mrsdevere I had the amount of children I could afford. I would have loved to have had more dcs-lost a fair few.
The op did mention benefits actually-said she wasnt sure want she would be entitled too and someone else pointed out that she may be effected by the changes to the benefit system....
I hold no personal grudge against the op as I dont know her but I think all this oh there,there tripe unhelpful and the suggestion that we should all just procreate at will without a thought to the consequences far removed from the world I live in...
She did actually mention benefits, but that said I agree with you anyway. Who cares whether the OP claims whatever she will be entitled to? Makes no difference to anyone else here.
Well the travellers whom my dh has represented have certainly claimed benefits but lets not get into the in and outs of that as I really know very little of their lifestyle.
Perhaps the op wont need benefits and will reunite with her dh-I really do hope it works out for her...
Pink you are the one talking tripe.
You sound very bitter and justifying your bitterness by taking a spurious moral high ground.
How would you feel if someone harped on about your choice to limit your family? That you were somehow morally incontinent because you stopped at however many?
That you had a duty to keep having more children because someone else felt you were being selfish not to?
This happens in some countries and cultures and it is just as vile as berating a woman who is already pregnant for keeping that child
Well it was your choice then, you choose not to have anymore because you don't want to claim ctc, your choice. However it's none of your buisness what other people decide to do.
WTF has that got to do with it? 'The travellers whom my dh has represented' ?
I didn't mention any culture, ethnicity or background. I pointed out that plenty of larger families manage without being the dreadful drain on society that you think they are.
And the thing that everyone always overlooks when benefit bashing is the 'would you want that life' question. Would you want to be OP? 8 children, pregnant admist a marriage collapse. I would not swop places. Neither would the overwhelming majority of us. This tells me that OP is in a vulnerable position that few people would want to emulate. The 'what if we all did it' argument falls flat........ Of course it is right that the state helps OP. I hope she manages to make whatever is the best decision for herself and her children.
Its my business because someone has to pay for these children-its not magiv money out of the sky.
I am not telling the op not to keep her child-far from it actually-I am merely pointing out that the op should consider how the new benefit changes may effect her family-I am not the only poster to have pointed it out btw
Bitter?-possibly true. As I said I have been pregnant many times but dont have the large family I would like....
And it might also be worth considering that OP's traveller background might mean that she has not had many opportunities to forge a life outside of child rearing, family nurturing etc. I don't mean any disrespect when I say that OP's decision to have many children might have been heavily influenced by the expectations of others. It really is not fair to judge OP so harshly.
Me too but I don't begrudge other people who have been more fortunate with their fertility than me, regardless of where their money comes from.
Some couples work for the nmw and without tc they couldn't afford to have children. They pay taxes why shouldn't they have children.
I was addressing someone else's point about benefits and travellers mrsdevere...
The only people I know who have large families and by large I am talking 6plus are all on benefits-coincedence?...
Bella - congratulations on your pregnancy. I hope your children bring you much joy.
I don't care how you pay for them. I have paid into the system all my life (including whilst fighting a war in Iraq). There are too many people out there having children and mistreating them. Abusing them, not providing them with basic needs. It sounds to me you have a lot of love to give. How dare anybody try to tell you you don't deserve to have another child if you use money offered by the government. Feel free to use the money I have paid if you need it. God knows you need it more than the thieves sitting in parliament. Rather it go on children and people who deserve it rather than paying for a gold played toilet seat.
I hope your pregnancy is an easy one, and am sure you will have the support of others around you should you need it. X
But Pink, would you swop with the 6 plus children benefit reliant mothers/fathers? I would find a life of bearing children I could not afford to or adequately house stressful, worrying, upsetting, disordered and chaotic. Most of us would. The families who end up in this situation need state help and assistance. For whatever reason they and their children are vulnerable. I can't bring myself to envy or resent the vulnerable.
Pink, I'm sorry you are so unhappy. I wish things had worked out differently for you.
Thank you rhonda-actually most days I consider myself very lucky indeed to have the children I have.
Property-the have that many children so that they get more benefits so clearly they dont find it that stressful. Not having to worry about paying a mortgage or council tax doesnt sound that stressful to me...
Well, I personally know of 3 families in excess of 6 children who don't claim a single penny of state benefits.
But that's very much beside the point.
pink let's say you suddenly found yourself in a situation like the OP.
If for whatever reason you found yourself and your children in a position where you needed assistance?
I don't know if you WOH or not, but let's say you are a SAHM.
And your husband lost his job, or your relationship broke down.
Or yours was the only income for whatever reason and you could manage on that wage?
Would you not think, as a solution, to put food on the table, a roof over your head, to see what benefits you could claim?
Because, correct me if I'm wrong, but you know all the threads when people need to end their relationships for whatever reason, but consider staying because they don't know how they would cope without DH wage, isn't the first piece of advice check what benefits you are entitled to?
You know, rather than stay in a horrible situation?
I don't remember anyone ever saying to an OP who needed to leave her husband "oh well, you have more than 3 children and you are stupid enough to get pregnant, therefore stay with your abusive husband"
Btw property I agree people in genuine need do need our help-it is the duty of a civiliased soceity to do so. It was not the intention of the welfare state to create a dependency that exonerates people of any sense of personal responsibility...
Tantrums you seem to be forgetting that the op didnt just fall and land on her dh's dick-forgive me the crudeness. She openly admits that she was lax with her contraception when in a shit relationship. Hardly smacks of someone being that responsible does it?
Again I am not saying that the op doesnt deserve any help-of course she does because the dcs would suffer otherwise-but I find all this oh well have as many dcs as you like and dont give a shit about who is going to pay for them frankly laughable...
Pink, I understand what you are saying but try viewing it as a 'chicken and egg' situation. Which came first? The wanting more money/children leading to vulnerability or vulnerability leading to wanting more children/money. I would say that before you are willing to procreate entirely reliant on state support and without regard to whether you can support new life you are arguably not thinking rationally, logically or clearly for whatever reason. Vulnerable people make choices that to you seen greedy or entitled but in reality those choices are more likely born out of vulnerability or ironically, inability to exercise choice (for example a chaotic lifestyle making the use of adequate contraception impossibly hard).
Btw, the above is not directed at OP.
Here's the thing.
You have no earthly clue of the OPs actual financial situation.
You don't know what job her DH has, how much money he earns, their outgoings, their savings.
You have the op down as a person who is having child after child in order to extract more money from the state.
Do you not see how ludicrous and downright nasty it is to judge someone in that way?
You have made your own nasty assumptions based on the fact that you do not think that the ops DH can possibly go to work every day and support his children.
You are, thank god, not judge, jury and executioner and I hope to god if you ever find yourself in hard times, you discover that not everyone is like you. There are empathetic, nice people who choose not to label people without havi g the facts.
I hope you discover this one day, I hope if you ever need help, you come across the nice people, rather than the judgmental, nasty, looking down their nose people.
I find all this oh well have as many dcs as you like and dont give a shit about who is going to pay for them frankly laughable
No one has said/implied that Pink, people have just acknowledged that it's a fact that these things happen. What exactly do you think should happen here?
Bella didn't post a thread asking if we though her situation was right or wrong, she posted because she was overwhelmed.
I understand you have had a hard time but projecting it onto the OP is not on.
The OP has said that her DH works and that she too earns money.
You have no way of knowing what her DH's wage is and are therefore in no position to judge.
It's a shame that you cannot afford to have more children even though you'd like more. It has nothing to do with the OP, and being bitter because she has a large family and you don't.
Won't help <must remember to finish sentences>
Congratulations OP. I've read the entire thread,you sound much calmer for knowing that you are pregnant as I imagine you would have done if you had not been. So it seems like it was the not knowing that was overwhelming for you.
You sound like you can cope. Can just say,good for you making difficult choices regarding your husband and community,reading that post in particular,you came across like a woman in control. Wish you the best of luck with your pregnancy and the new baby!
P.s how you remained polite in the face of occasionally quite shocking rudeness if beyond me. You are a better woman than I am!
Wow, 9!! Congratulations, I don't know if I'm jealous or just in awe
Sorry to hear about your marriage breakdown though and I hope things work out for you okay.
I don't think the assumption that large families=benefits is true at all actually. I have 5 children and am sort of trying for a 6th and not once has anyone said anything derogatory to me. Why? Because we live in West London and are on a high income. Does that make me better than a family relying on benefits? Unlikely! You could say I should be using the money we are lucky enough to have to help existing children in poverty rather than 'popping out' more of my own!
You are being vicious towards someone who has what you want Pink and nothing excuses that.
Its a shame that you can't afford more children, and I am sorry for your losses, I too am in double figures with miscarriages.
But I take great exception to your comments that people with large families do it purely to get more benefits, that they dont pay mortgages or council tax, that they dont support themselves in anyway and simply expect the state to pony up each time and that the OP has done this purely to extract as much money from you personally as possible.
I have 6 children and I certainly didnt do it because it would make me money! It costs alot to have a large family, and on basic benefits it must be extremely difficult to make ends meet. We pay our mortgage and council tax the same as you do. H has a job that he works hard at and I am a SAHM who is also running a business in order to not have to pay childcare costs (that i could claim from TC!). Yes we are in receipt of some CTC but not much, and that makes us no different from millions of other families in the UK, we pay in far more than we take out in "handouts". The OP was already pg when her marriage fell apart, and as for her contraception mistake, let she who is without sin cast the first stone.....
Pink makes a very good point though, the OP was very lax with contraception despite knowing she would probably end up single with 8 children plus the new addition. Given she aays she works a little, its very obvious that the rest comes from benefits. Being lax with contraception knowing you expect others to fund the consequences is wrong in many peoples eyes.
Happy - its in no way 'obvious' that she receives benefits. You have no idea what her circumstances are.
Well apparently happy we can all have 9 dcs if we want because noone should stop you having the amount of dcs you want-yes even if you cant afford them.....
Not to add to the assumptions but I went to catholic school and there were many large families. They worked very very hard (usually both parents in opposing shifts) but also frequently the fathers were in the building trade where you can be self employed easily as well as charging more for the more dangerous/ anti social work and working a great deal of overtime. It's not unusual for people to leave for work at 4am and be home at 10pm or sleep on building sites etc. travellers are often self employed which makes it easier to up your earning power just by working more.
It's really funny how narrow minded people can be. It's a bit weird to HO around assuming everyone is poor, I think.
OP you sound very positive and I wish you all the very best
Yep because positive thinking will feed,house and clothes 9 kids wont it....
Pink why are you being so vitriolic? You do realise the OP is a person with feelings don't you?
I am not being vitriolic towards the op-I have offered her my best wishes and I really mean it. I am merely pointing out that if everyone adopted the attitude that you can have as many kids as you like without a thought as to who will pay for them then we would all be up shit creek.
How many of you have 9 plud dcs btw seeing as you are so ok with it?....
Well I don't have any yet.
I'm not saying I would personally have that many children but OP is pregnant. She already has 8 children,that is quite a lot,I'm sure she has finances sorted and just hasn't felt the urge to tell us all about them. Us strangers on an Internet forum. That's fair enough really. She wasn't asking what we thought of her hypothetical benefit claiming either.
I am not bitter-I just live in the rl which someone of you clearly do not...
No you just sound bitter, it is no concern of yours who receives benefits. It's not for you to decide who deserves them and who doesn't.
Where on earth did you get that from Pink?
When did she say she hasn't given a thought to who will pay for them? You are bitter and have twisted the OPs situation to suit your own bitterness.
We are all living in real life and this just happens to be Bellas.
Try not to let the rude comments posted on here about having a large family upset you. I heard such comments when I was pregnant with number 3 and again with number 4,so I can imagine you have heard it all before anyway!!! When you are saying that you are feeling understandably overwhelmed I can't understand why some others would post such judgemental, rude, ignorant and unhelpful comments that will just make you feel worse when in a particularly vulnerable state!!!! Others have posted supportive comments and so just take comfort in those.... Another baby is another blessing You love the eight you have and are coping and you will love number nine and cope Ask for help and support from family and friends if you can as you will need it especially if your partners behaviour is unsupportive at this time..... Good luck x
Wht do you think will happen to all the money saved?
Give it back to the tax payer? No, those higher earners are already loosing cb
Will they give it to those with sn or for services for them, no they are making cuts.
Opportunities for the young? No cuts again
The elderly? don't think so
The NHS? Doubt we will have one left If the government gets it's way
You will be no better off financially, so I don't see why it matters so much to you.
There are a few people on this thread who come across as a really nasty, bitter and spiteful. I worry far more about the kind of children they will raise, than someone who needs some temporary financial assistance from the state.
No-one on this thread knows if the OP will actually claim benefits, what situation has caused her to leave her H,whether he will support her and their children or not and yet everyone has an opinion on her life!
Bella congratulations on your pregnancy, you sound like you are more than capable of raising children who will become adults with a positive effect on society.
I could sort of understand if the government were saying right it's not fair that some people don't work and receive money however many dc they have, so we will cap it and give tax breaks to help those who do work and don't claim so they will have more money for their dc. But they wont
Moomin, even if it were just "I could sort of understand if the government were saying right it's not fair that some people don't work and receive money however many dc they have, so we will cap it", I would agree with it as a principle.
They don't have to plough it back to the deserving working people in order for it to be right as a policy.
Wow some people are so rude and thoughtless.
Regardless of your views on this (all based on assumption so how anyone can take a proper view is beyond me), how can people talk about children in this way, as if they are dirty little objects? And ridicule someone's name choices?
As an aside will anyone apologise to the poster who asked if OP was a traveller?
She was hit by a particularly Mumsnetty display of knee jerky hysteria when she was asking a perfectly straightforward question - and went on to explain that wanted to alert OP to specific resource/support for travellers - but was told she was stereotyping and being offensive!
Then lo and behold OP says she is a (non travelling) traveller.
And no I am not making any comment whatsoever about travellers, I am just saying some people need to calm down.
I have a family member who is the absolute stereotype that mumsnetters love to hate.
Single, still in her twenties, pregnant with fifth child by the fourth father (or fifth if family rumour is to be believed), no qualifications, never worked.
But the thing that I always wonder is what exactly is her future? Best case scenario I guess is that she stops having children after this one. So 5 years from now she will be expected to get a job. But who will hire someone in their thirties with no qualifications or experience? So I guess realistically she will find herself on Workfare - maybe for Tescos. Best case - she somehow manages to pull it out the bag long enough to impress them and be offered a job. Which she manages to keep and eventually gets herself promoted to second assistant deputy manager of Bakery and so ends up earning a good pound an hour above minimum wage.
Her children grow up so she stops getting tax credits etc. she eventually retires aged 72 to live the remaining 12 years of her life on a state pension debating between eating and heating each winter.
And the really tragic thing is that this is the best I can realistically imagine for her and suspect that this version of "happy ever after" won't come true.
Her eldest daughter is not much younger now than she was when she had her. I look at her sometimes and pray she keeps with her education (she's a bright girl when she wants to be) and gets to discover just how amazing the world can be.
Non travelling traveller? wtf is that
According to the Op she comes from the background and heritage of a traveller but she herself lives in one permanent place.
Bit like my husband who is a non Welsh speaking Welshman.
Travellers are a recognised ethnic group in the UK...I believe they are a recognised social/ cultural group in Ireland. You don't have to travel to be a traveller because they are an ethnic/social group with their own culture,with traditions beyond just travelling.
She is a traveller but she doesn't travel - it's her culture/ethnicity - she is in one place. She explained it upthread!
<totally confused about who's attacking and misunderstanding and arguing with who>
And I am a non-practising, atheist Jew!
When I say I'm Jewish but have no religious beliefs some people are like 'eh?' but it's about culture. Most of my friends and family are Jewish, most of us are atheists, it's all about lifestyle/family etc.
What does that have to do with Bella, Katie?
She has 8 (soon to be nine ) children all to the same father, she was a SAHM and her husband worked. Sadly that relationship, like many has not worked out and she's isn't the first and won't be the last women to find herself pregnant after separating.
Are you just jumping on the bandwagon and perpetuating negative stereotypes of single mothers with multiple kids for the craic, or does your post have an actual point of relevance to this thread?
Sorry if that sounds harsh but I felt your post completely unnecessary.
Not a lot but we are 16 pages on!
My point was in agreement to someone a few pages back who basically said "if living on benefits with loads of kids is so great why don't people just do it".
My argument is that even at the extreme end of the benefit debate (and I suspect my family member is just the type of person good old Dave is after) then there is no wide screen tvs and goats - just a mundane future and a miserable old age.
Unfortunately I'm a slow typist on the Ipad and dd is ill so keeps waking up so my post had lost its relevance before it got posted. (As I suspect this one will too.)
Congratulations Bella! You sound happier now, that your pregnancy is confirmed
Wish you all the very best. Do take all the help you can get and research to make sure you get the benefits you are eligible for.
Don't let the judgey people get you down. They are probably the ones who wave flags when the royal scroungers go by and watch strictly come dancing instead of marching on the streets protesting the bank bailouts, BBC fatcats, parasites in quangos and LA who pay themselves fat bonuses for fuck all.
I would so much prefer if my tax money went to people like you, who spend it bringing up children.
You sound like a wonderful mum.
After reading some of the comments I agree with the whole nest of vipers thing.
OP ignore the negative comments and focus on the helpful ones. You will need to focus your energy on having 9 children soon!
Best of luck to you and your family.
There was a thread on MN recently about a woman who found herself PG just after her husband left her for his pg OW. She will have no choice but to claim benefits, atleast for a short while after the baby is born as she works PT and will not get full SMP.
Has she been lumped in with the "have a baby and who gives a toss who pays for it?" No. Because its her first and somehow that's deemed acceptable but a woman who finds herself pregnant after leaving her husband due to his unacceptable behaviour is not ok because its her ninth!
A woman with 8 children (particularly from travelling culture) would not take the decision to leave her marriage lightly, she has been supported by her working STBX up until now. She finds herself in the same situation as the other MNer and is castigated. Maybe she has been trying to keep things together for years and then one day last month he got drunk once too often, or kept her short of money once too often, or was verbally abusive once too often or raised his hand to her or the kids. We dont know, but after years of "it'll be ok, stay together for the kids" plus her cultural expectations that women put up and shut up, she let him have sex because it was easier than saying no and then the next day came the straw that broke the camels back. As I said, we dont know, but something happened that made her, dependent on him with 8 kids to feed, clothe and house, say "Enough". Is anyone really suggesting it was because he didnt put the bins out or some other spurious reason?
Has it not occurred to the benefit bashers that married life with her STBX must have been fucking horrific for life as a single mother from traveller culture, with 9 kids on benefits to be preferable?
We have seen what has happened to her on here, she must be escaping something terrible for her to accept all of that and for it to STILL BE BETTER THAN WHAT SHE HAD.
Oh! Well that's different.
Sorry for being snappy, I just got a little fed up for Bella as posters seemed to be using this thread to have a good old rant rather than offering her some advice or at least an objective opinion.
Hope your DD feels better soon.
I will stand up and apologise for having a go at whoever it was that asked if the OP was a traveller. I was assuming it was just another insult on what was, at that point, a page full of insults.
I am sorry for that.
Proud - I'm wondering if I could define myself as a blind sighted person??
I think of myself as sighted and live in a sighted world as a sighted person but at my last eye test the optician commented that if there was no such thing as glasses or contact lenses I would now be legally blind.
The world is full of contradictions.
Mummy my father is profoundly deaf, but he can hear because of his aids and (hopefully, oh dear god that I dont believe in, hopefully) when he has his cochlear impant next month. But he will still be classed as profoundly deaf.
I would look into it, not least because you can get alot of support from the RNIB and if you glasses etc cost alot then you can get assistance with that. Blindness is a disability and you shouldnt just assume that because your glasses work that you arent entitled to help and support. And not just financial before anyone jumps on me. The best thing my dad found out he was entitled to was a mentor via the DeafBlind Assc. who had been through what he is going through, it meant the world to him that someone was there for him who understood (he is partially blind too )
I was a bit confused (not least as my name is not Katie - should have thought that one out better.)
As someone who has one child, is pregnant with the second, a very supportive husband and is really struggling (note to self - do not smugly tell people how easy you found the first pregnancy - fate hears those types of things and laughs) I am kind of amazed by Bella tbh.
That was my mistake typing Katie, It just popped out at me. It should have been Mummyto.
I couldn't give a rat's patootie if the OP has 9 kids, or is a traveller, or whatever.
What DOES make me think she's a bit of a moron is the fact that she has put herself in this situation by forgetting to take her pill twice in a row and then having unprotected sex because she "wasn't really thinking about it" and then acting surprised when she fell pregnant.
Doesn't really bode well for her children when she can't take basic responsibility for herself.
Angel are you familiar with traveller culture and expectations of women?
She forgot her pills, he expected sex, he didnt know she was on the pill (iirc)and probably wouldnt care if she had missed a couple, so what was she going to do?
Of course, this is all conjecture, but I am trying to show that you dont know that she jumped onto him yelling "RIDE 'EM COWBOY!!!". Of course I dont know that she didnt, but the point is there.
Oh and dont forget that she is 99% likely to be catholic and not educated, both by virtue of her religion and her culture, in contraception and may not have fully realised that missing a couple really does mean you might get pg, atleast until it happened.
Bogey it's interesting but although I can logically see how similar I am to your dad in a way it somehow seems completely different.
Maybe because glasses / contact lenses work so unbelievably well. Or maybe because so many people wear them.
I do have a fear that eventually my eyesight will deteriorate beyond that which is correctable but thankfully the research / technology seems to be moving faster than I am ATM. And I think we all have some future health-based fear that we rarely talk about. (Heart disease in the family etc.)
I really hope your dad's op goes well. It is amazing what we can do nowadays. I rarely think about it but I am very very lucky.
Some really lovely comments here- id love to adress you one by one but there are quite a few so thank you all (I've read them all)
And yep, I did miss 2 pills, didn't realise id be having sex (I'm not saying it isn't up to ME when I have sex but that's just how it was at the time and it is done now)
You're right about my husband being self employed (and before anyone says it- he actually does pay tax) he doesn't earn loads but he earns more than a lot of people and it was enough to feed the kids, keep the roof over our heads, pay the bills.
I even managed to get some savings together over a few months (not much but its the difference between me feeling a bit more secure or me being in a huge panic over money)
I won't be getting back together with my ex and I'm happy that now I can leave the dishes over night if I'm too busy with other things and DSs are allowed to put a tiara/fairy wings on without being told to take that off now!!! Mine and DCs best times were when ex was working or work then straight to pub and it was definitely the best choice to split with him.
So, I rang him earlier and asked if he planned to pay anything towards his children which he didn't seem to understand, he couldn't get his head round the fact that we are not together BUT our children still need money!
In my opinion it was pretty brave of me to ring him, he could have came round the house and kicked off, I know of women who are travellers or were married to a traveller that left their husbands but it would always have to be in the night or while he isn't in, pack a bag, get the kids and go. I just packed his things up put them at the side of the house and when he got back from work I explained it to him and went back inside the house, told him I was ready to ring the police if I needed to and he left in the end
Some of the 'traveller traditions/culture' is ridiculous but I do see things changing, they can't all ignore what the rest of the country is doing for much longer. I'm not even against meeting someone new in the future, not thinking about that much yet though
Well I can't predict what will happen with money but if the government do let children go without enough benefits then that would be terrible, not the kind of country I thought we lived in. There's not much I can do about any of that apart from carry on being as frugal as I can and trying to save any money that I can
bella I wish you all the best. You sound like a strong person, and I am pleased that you are doing the right thing WRT your H.
Ignore all the benefit bashers, and find out what assistance you are entitled to. The benefit system is there to help people in your situation, and it's a sad thing that some people would rather see you in an unhappy situation with your DCs rather than starting a new life that's better for you and the children.
I'm sure that this baby will be loved very much and is very lucky to grow up in a large happy family.
Take care x
If he pays tax then there is a record of how much he earns. So the CSA can work out how much he should be giving your children. It may be worth talking to some people on the single parents forum about how it works with self employed men as I don't know.
Benefits will make sure you don't starve (at least at the moment) but the money from him will give you all a few extras.
Yes if they bother! Exh is self employed some of the time. Usually when the csa manage to get hold of him he goes self employed. Even though in the last 18 years he's probably been se for about 3 years in total the csa still won't look into his tax history.
He's paid about 2 years csa all in all.
I hate to do this - but I haven't read the whole thread, just a representative sample** - The birth rate in this country is not actually that high and so a few people having large families is probably not a problem. May actually help pay for our pensions. OP has 8 or 9 children and I know at least that number not having children at all.
I don't see a problem with people claiming benefits they are entitled to. It benefits everybody to live in a society where you don't have to end up on the street starving. I wish the world did the same.
** Not scientifically reliable
I do actually know a dying pensioner who was paying taxes and benefits to people with large families and no means of supporting them up to his last breath. So I always take that kind of comment with a pinch of salt.
To those who are slagging off people with big families who claim benefits, I have just put in our claim for JSA for him, me and 5 of our 6 children.
Yes, I know that I said my DH worked and until this morning he did. He got to work to find his unit which he manages closed and himself out of a job with no notice, 6 weeks before Xmas.
So what would you have us do? Starve? Or perhaps I should pop another baby out, you know....for the money.
There but for the grace God go all of us. Dont be so sure that you wont be next because believe me, you wont find things quite so cut and dried then.
Bella your DC are lucky to have you as a mum, you sound lovely. Good luck with your new little one, although I'm sure you won't need it.
Sorry to hear of your terrible luck Bogey. That's really bad, I'm so sorry.
Bogey that's awful, I'm really sorry to hear that.
Some people really need to understand how easy it is for things to change, just like that.
I hope you and your family have a little luck come your way soon. You seem like a lovely person.
Ah bogey I'm so sorry. It's awful.
Same thing happened to my DH 3 years ago, he turned up for work and the place had shut down.
You'll get through this, it's awful timing and a fuckibg horrible thing to happen.
I wish you well.
bogey sorry to hear that, what utter shite esp at this time of year hope the applications are processed quickly nad everything works out ok for you all.
off the top of my head make sure tax credits knows so you get the amount of child tax credit you should, plus council tax benefit etc. also i dont know if you have a mortgage but there is a sheme you can apply where if you have a low income for so long ie on job seekers or income support, you can apply and they will help pay interest on a mortgage at the bank of england rate. obviously if you are renting there is housing benefit. hope he finds a job asap xx
oh and dont forget free school meals you may be eligible for and free prescriptions etc.
Bogey that is horrible
The same thing happened to us when I was pregnant with DC4, just before Christmas.
I couldn't sign on because I was pregnant so thank God for that maternity grant. Selfishly I spent it on food and heat rather than prams and moses baskets.
OH found another job after Christmas. I hope your OH does too.
Yep, have included CT benefit in the claim (or I assume we have, it asked if we wanted to claim it so either it goes through with the claim or they will send us the forms separately). We have a low mortgage and the amount of hoops you have to jump through for the interest thing is just not worth it for the £20 or so we would receive a month, I would rather pay it ourselves.
He has has applied for 2 jobs already, and we will be hitting the internet like never before come the morning. The adrenalin has worn off now, and we are both feeling tired and a bit down, but atleast now the only way is up
We have a low mortgage too. We put everything in to it so it is fairly small now.
Its our only bit of security really since OH was dx with MS. My thinking is that if we lose our jobs or OH gets worse we will not have to worry about a roof over our heads.
The other stuff I will just have to deal with if it happens.
Oh bugger bogey what a shitty thing to happen.
Has he worked there long enough to be able to claim redundancy? The government pay it if teh company can't. It wouldn't be much but it's worth looking at.
Fingers crossed something comes up very fast. Even a temp thing for Christmas eh.
Yeah, he should be due a few thousand in redundancy, pay in lieu of notice etc. With luck and a tailing wind it would be enough to see us through about 6 months, if we are uber careful. The company hasnt folded, so they should pay it, but no idea if or when they will
Thanks for all the good wishes. Have crashed down a lot now, I think the adrenalin really has worn off. Feeling tearful and headachey.
Got to go and pick up the fucking goat tomorrow now too
Well if you can't laugh.....
Well make sure it's an HD goat, dont accept anything else.
I'm sure this is just a temporary thing, and you will be back on your feet properly in no time.
Well it needs to be a decent goat, it has got to set up the new flatscreen telly and take the kids to Maccies cos i can't be arsed!
I have the feeling you are going to be fine
It will take more than this to break me. Although RILEY'S SNOOKER CLUBS will rue the day that they pissed me off....ooops, did I say that outloud?
bogey that's awful, hope things work out for you.
Can I borrow your goat to take a look at my flat screen, it blew up today
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