to be frightened, firm and fucking furious?

(173 Posts)
SomeoneElseHere Fri 16-Nov-12 15:00:23

NC as identifiable.

We live abroad in a residence where all the families go to the bar on a Friday night for drinks. The kids all run around together unsupervised. I expect people think I'm a bit paranoid and helicoptery for supervising DD but there is a swimming pool, a lake and other dangers. Parents seem to think that the bigger kids will look out for the little ones. I don't like to go there very often to be honest, because it annoys me that everyone else is chatting and drinking and I'm running round after a bunch of kids. DH thinks I'm OTT, and so is very half-hearted in his supervision.

DD is 3. She has a friend who is also 3, and another who is 4. The other kids are all older.

DH took DD alone tonight as I was feeling ill. They came back. She was wet. She had sat on the edge of the pool and dunked her legs in. Her 4 year old friend was with her. No-one else.

I am now saying that we will not go unless she is with one of us (or another adult) AT ALL TIMES. DH thinks she 'deserves another chance'. hmm IMO it's not a case of 'another chance. It's not like she spilt juice when she wasn't sitting at the table. She got in the fricking swimming pool in the dar with no-one around (pool is hidden by wall and trees).

AIBU? This is mostly a rant, as I know I'm not BU and even if you say I am I'm not backing down.

Furious, I tell you. angry

AlistairSim Fri 16-Nov-12 15:02:21

You are so not being unreasonable.

I would feel exactly the same. I think the other parents must be loons.

YANBU. We go out with a group where I am the only one that seems bothered where they are and that's just at the local pub and they are playing outside and mine are much older.

I would be furious too.

Lonelynessie Fri 16-Nov-12 15:04:45

Yanbu. I would be furious and also very concerned that my oh couldn't see the danger in that situation.

ENormaSnob Fri 16-Nov-12 15:05:35

Yanbu

Is your husband seriously thick?

ihavenofuckingclue Fri 16-Nov-12 15:06:05

Yanbu.

At its nothing about chances.

Its not her fault really and its not a punishment. Its safety.

StrawberriesTasteLikeLipsDo Fri 16-Nov-12 15:06:32

YANBU - your husband is saying give her another chance to drown?! WTAF supervision by water is a minimum, thank god she is ok.

stealthsquiggle Fri 16-Nov-12 15:07:56

YANBU. Is there any possibility for compromise, though - for example, if you took some particularly attractive toy, could you mandate that DD stays within sight of you, and hope that her friends come and play with her there?

Corygal Fri 16-Nov-12 15:08:53

YANBU. SHE deserves another chance? What about the adults?

Does your husband know that if someone is drowning, they don't necessarily (or even usually) splash about and make noise? So if (god forbid) anything had happened, it would most probably have happened silently and not been noticed until too late?

SomeoneElseHere Fri 16-Nov-12 15:09:31

I have no idea what toy could be more attractive than charging round screaming!

PropositionJoe Fri 16-Nov-12 15:09:35

YANBU. Drowning is silent, there is no splashing and shouting because the child is under the water. No one would have heard her.

Tabliope Fri 16-Nov-12 15:10:22

What on earth is your DH on about that she deserves another chance? Another chance for what? To be trusted to not go near the pool again? He should be fighting to be given another chance by you to actually look after his child again without you around because I wouldn't trust him again. She's not much more than a baby. Water has an attraction for kids. I wouldn't leave them unsupervised around water until a much older age. I don't even know what age to be honest but definitely not 3. What an idiot. YANBU. He's on another planet.

Groovee Fri 16-Nov-12 15:10:35

YANBU

whizmum Fri 16-Nov-12 15:10:44

Well, as someone who pulled her dd out of a swimming pool once, I would be sensible. I was shocked that dd, who jumped in whilst I turned to talk to another mother, just hung there, bottom up and not moving. She can still remember it so must have been about 4. I don't know if she would have panicked and struggled - I pulled her out pretty fast!

Keep a watch.

Other parents loons, as above

lynniep Fri 16-Nov-12 15:10:50

YAN even vaguely BU.
Jesus has he NO common sense?!! A 3 year old has no sense of danger and cannot be expected to follow your instructions. (No child can, or will for that matter) Older children should never be left in charge of younger ones - not when they are playing themselves.
Something terrible is just waiting to happen.

SomeoneElseHere Fri 16-Nov-12 15:10:59

He wouldn't have heard even if she screamed. He was inside.

Tabliope Fri 16-Nov-12 15:14:02

I think kids of a certain age need watching completely when they are in the water. On holiday if my DS was in the pool age 7 I'd sit on the sun bed but watch him. I used to read then I thought that actually you can get into the story, lose track of time and it takes seconds for them to get in trouble so paranoid or not I stopped reading when he was that age and in the pool. Same with your DH and all those other adults. They are drinking, laughing and having a good time. They are not conscious whether they've left a child unattended for 2 minutes or 20 minutes. Not on. She wouldn't be going with him again because he doesn't get it and I'd be thinking he thinks I'm being OTT so he might just be saying yes I'll be with her the whole time to pacify me. I'd have to be there.

StrawberriesTasteLikeLipsDo Fri 16-Nov-12 15:14:05

He is lacking in brains.

Wankarella Fri 16-Nov-12 15:14:38

YANBU

My head wold be spinning like the lady on 'the exorcist' by now. I would also be fucking livid!

mummymeister Fri 16-Nov-12 15:15:58

my gast is flabbered. an unsupervised 3 yr old, a swimming pool hidden out of sight behind walls and a tree and distracted parents having a drink. there can be noone who thinks this is acceptable.

stealthsquiggle Fri 16-Nov-12 15:17:55

FWIW, even though I was promoting compromise, any 3yo (or older) of mine would be (a) in a flotation jacket and (b) within my sight at all times under such circumstances.

Having a swimming pool is statistically more dangerous than having a gun. Would he leave a three year old with instructions not to touch a gun? Or be supervised by other children? He is insane.

drivingmisspotty Fri 16-Nov-12 15:18:25

Of course YANBU.

OP, when I was about 11 yrs I was playing in the sea with my dad and two younger sisters. My dad asked me to take DSis 6 yrs back to where my mum was sitting on the beach. I took her halfway then pointed in the vague direction of my mum and ran back to the sea, where I'd been having fun. Sister got lost. Thank God she stayed away from the water and sat on someone else's towel where we found her sometime between 30 mins and a lifetime later. I was a good kid, but I got distracted. I still feel guilty but I see now that my dad also misjudged a bit in giving me that responsibility - it's too much to expect the older kids to look out for the younger ones. And how exactly are they meant to help if a three yr old jumps in the pool? Jump in after them and perhaps get in trouble themselves or run back for help and maybe be too late?

I wonder are they mostly British expats you live with? I have seen discussions on here where mnetters from Oz put Brits right on their lack of sense around water. As other posters have said, drowning is silent and quick and in Oz, where there are pools everywhere, they are extremely conscious about supervising garden pools, keeping kids locked out and fitting alarms.

mummymeister Fri 16-Nov-12 15:20:26

"....He wouldn't have heard even if she screamed. He was inside...." so absolutely no supervision of his child then. just flings open the door and out she goes to do whatever with whomever. i hope you deal with him appropriately OP because i know damn sure i would. how can he not see that what he did was out of order totally.

gotthemoononastick Fri 16-Nov-12 15:20:36

Sitting here with gooseflesh...you have been very lucky.I fear any water around little ones.Friends little boy fell into a pool while she was reading and she heard nothing.They only go down twice,do not shout for help and are gone.Please,please ask the venue not to allow unsupervised children there.Shuddering.

fallingsun Fri 16-Nov-12 15:20:48

Yanbu. It sounds very dangerous - does a child need to have a serious accident for this to be taken seriously?

harrietspy Fri 16-Nov-12 15:22:44

YANBU. I know a couple whose ds fell into the pool. They thought he was with his slightly older siblings but he'd fallen in and they hadn't heard. He was resuscitated and survived but has severe brain damage.

In the olden days (pre-municipal swimming pools & arm bands, I guess) parents used to scare children about horrible creatures who lived in pools and rivers (Jenny Greenteeth, etc) to keep them away from water. There never was a time when mothers were relaxed about water and children. For a reason.

YANBU at all.

cees Fri 16-Nov-12 15:23:34

Yanbu, tell him next time she might not get out.

SomeoneElseHere Fri 16-Nov-12 15:23:48

grin no they are all Aussie!

HRH008 Fri 16-Nov-12 15:24:52

Your DH is wrong, just wrong.
Aged 4, a child must be supervised around water.

If my DH had left my DD like that, had been inside and she had been in a pool, I would have hit the fucking roof. He would have done the same if I had been so completely stupid and irresponsible.

We have (access to) an inside pool. The door is locked, always. The key is too high for the kids to reach. Anyone leaving the door unlocked gets a bollocking. It´s just too dangerous to mess about.

HRH008 Fri 16-Nov-12 15:25:59

BTW, am so very glad she is ok.

Some0ne Fri 16-Nov-12 15:27:12

I'm verging on saying 'leave the bastard' and actually meaning it.

YANBU (and that's a huge understatement).

LouisWalshsChristmasCloset Fri 16-Nov-12 15:30:43

Fucking hell. Don't know how you didn't rip your DH head off. I'd be fucking furious to say the least

Wheredidmyyouthgo Fri 16-Nov-12 15:31:01

YANBU, not one bit. I would feel the same as you.

And as for DD 'deserves another chance', what is he thinking? It's his behaviour that is in issue here. Is he missing the point entirely?

Am 100% with you on this, as per every other poster!

MrsWolowitz Fri 16-Nov-12 15:31:05

YANBU. Not at all.

You are right to insist that she is supervised at all times.

Your DH sounds slack and irresponsible. Of course children shouldn't be alone around pools.

So glad your DD is ok.

Chandon Fri 16-Nov-12 15:31:22

yanbu, I have been an expat and lived like this and I could not get used to it, even after 6 years!

Kids can drown in less than 2 minutes, there is no time for the other 4 year old to even get help (if she would).

At least in my case, my husband agreed with me! Cannot believe your is so casual.

Can't you leave kids with babysitter at home and go with DH? (always the pragmatic)

FobblyWoof Fri 16-Nov-12 15:33:24

Oh wow. I think I seriously would have snapped his neck. What an absolute idiot.

He wants to "give her another chance" to what, exactly? Another chance to die. You are definitely, definitely not being unreasonable.

DH is an complete and utter twunt. And to be honest, so are the rest of the parents in that group

Yanbu

My cousins ds drowned in the swimming pool in their back garden. His older brother took him into the house and in the time it took his mum to get the baby twins out the pool into the house he had ran round to the side door and got back into the pool.

Couple of minutes at the most, they took him off life support a few days later, he was nearly 3.

I'd be really pissed off if it was my dh

valiumredhead Fri 16-Nov-12 15:37:05

It's not about chances as it's not her behaviour that is wrong it's HIS.

AdoraJingleBells Fri 16-Nov-12 15:39:12

YANBU

It's not DD who should or shouldn't have another chance. She isn't the one who neglected to supervise a 3 yr old. I would say DD doesn't go unless you are there, because he can't be trusted. Make these Friday evenings your fun time with DD, or do fun time with her at home on Friday evenings, leave DH to get pissed and sort himself out.

Moomins that's horrible sad

Turniphead1 Fri 16-Nov-12 15:40:16

Am relaxed about child safety compared to most. But this terrifies me. This is an actual real danger. Every year a significant number of kids die this way. You are SO not being unreasonable. Glad you Dd safe.

drivingmisspotty Fri 16-Nov-12 15:41:14

Oops, please excuse my national stereotyping.

WitchesTit Fri 16-Nov-12 15:45:30

YANBU. It's exactly those sort of situations that lead to 'accidents'

Startail Fri 16-Nov-12 15:45:39

YANBU
My DDs are fish, but they couldn't have swum well enough at 3 to get out of trouble. DD2 by 4.5-5 yes. She did huge water chutes and centre parks rapids in the dark.

But a 3 and a 4y old by a pool on their own no way.

earthpixie Fri 16-Nov-12 15:49:53

I would actually be wondering if I could forgive DH if he did that. Very nearly a dealbreaker.

Soapysuds64 Fri 16-Nov-12 15:53:30

I used to live abroad, where the new year eve party was held by the side of the swimming pool. Adults were drinking, kids were playing. One 4 year old girl drowned. It sounds pretty much the same. Kind of place / atmosphere that you describe. Drowning does happen.

Lavenderhoney Fri 16-Nov-12 15:58:29

Yanbu. Your dd could have died. You are not over reacting. Does he mean he wants a 2nd chance? I would say not on a Friday night- when he is inside at the bar and someone says I'll watch her for you, them pops off to the loo, starts chatting etc, this time you might not be lucky. And what if other dc are playing near the pool and start pushing? She could easily go in and not be noticed.

Stick to your guns, I know I would.

CinnabarRed Fri 16-Nov-12 16:01:47

My DH has a colleague whose 3 year old drowned in a pool in Spain. DH is now absolutely uncompromising about water safety, and rightly so.

YA so definitely not being U. His behaviour is unbelievable. I really don't understand the reference to "another chance". Your child is 3 years old and has no concept of danger, so she has done nothing wrong as she cannot understand why she has to keep away from water.

I would be absolutely fuming at my DH if he put my daughter in that amount of danger. Drowning is silent and quick.

wineandroses Fri 16-Nov-12 16:05:41

oh my god Op, your DH is a moron! What are you going to do to make sure this doesn't happen again?

Some friends of my brother went on holiday with a large group to a villa with a pool. Adults sitting next to pool, drinking and chatting, big and little kids in the pool. Little 3 year old drowned and no-one noticed sad. I am tearful even writing this because it was just the saddest thing. Please Please Please make your idiot husband understand.

I would avoid those other stupid parents too.

Lemonylemon Fri 16-Nov-12 16:05:47

YANBU. Don't back down. Show your H this thread.

If it were me, I'd be absolutely spitting chips....

Quenelle Fri 16-Nov-12 16:06:05

YANBU I am horrified.

Soapysuds64 what a terrible thing sad

I always thought Australians were especially vigilant about watching children around swimming pools. Because so many people have them.

I once heard a woman on the radio describing a time when she was sitting by the side of a pool with her toddler one side of her and slightly older child the other. They were all dangling their legs in. Woman turned to talk to her older child and when she turned back her toddler was under the water. He had slipped in completely silently. She was sitting within touching distance and didn't hear a thing.

Friends of ours have a swimming pool and they had a party for the Royal Wedding last year. I saw so many people rolling their eyes at me for following DS around the garden. I got sick of them all saying 'there's enough eyes on him' like some sort of bloody mantra. As if any of the pissed blokes was paying attention to the small boy playing behind their legs on the pool deck angry

diddl Fri 16-Nov-12 16:06:43

Bloody idiot.

How about you get a babysitter or take it in turns to go in future?

Wonder if the other parents will watch their kids if no one else is?

It really is a tragedy waiting to happen imo.

If any of them fell in the older ones might not react quickly enough.

How old are the older ones?

It´s a big responsibility!

captainmummy Fri 16-Nov-12 16:18:27

We went to a garden party where there was a pool, with a dinghy in it, which my ds1was fascinated by.(he was about 3) and when it was food-time the pool fence/gate was chained up. BUT the chain wasn't tight enough on the gate, my ds1 slipped through. He was found in the dinghy in the middle of the pool, we assume it must have been by the side of the pool and he'd climbed in. It still makes my blood run cold to think - what if he'd slipped? He was still in nappies, which would have filled up and pulled him down.
We were eating on the lawn, not 10 yards away, but no-one noticed him .

Your scenario is a tragedy waiting to happen OP - until then I suppose no-one will take any notice.

OnwardBound Fri 16-Nov-12 16:24:42

I am Australian [by origin] and I am horrified at this.

It is true that in Aus there is much publicity and government sponsored public health warnings around the dangers of children and swimming pools.

Everyone knows that small children, alcohol and adults socialising and unfenced swimming pool out of view of any form of adult supervision is a tragic accident waiting to happen...

Well actually, it's not an accident is it. It is a completely forseeable event!

If I were you OP I would point this out to either the person hosting these social gatherings and/or the venue they are held at.

Because I think they may find themselves up on manslaughter charges and also being sued to within an inch of their lives.

This may help them rethink the idiocy of their ways, if they are not particularly troubled by the idea of a small dead child angry

abitcoldupnorth Fri 16-Nov-12 16:29:38

jesus captainmummy that would make me need to sit down for a long time with a bottle of brandy.

and OP, of course YANBU. Can they not secure the pool somehow? In France now you must have a secure fence and gate round every pool.

nancy75 Fri 16-Nov-12 16:31:12

I am really surprised to hear this is in Australia, I thought pools there had to be fenced off?

WakeyCakey Fri 16-Nov-12 16:33:52

YADNBU
When I was 4 (sisters 5+6) my nanny took us to go swimming at a pool on holiday. I had to watch her dive in and carry a 5 year old out of the pool (who we had been playing with all over the holiday) as she was left there while her parents went to get some food.

She didn't know how to swim and never stood a chance.

When her parents were finally found (about and hour later) they had only been gone 30 mins when we found her.

I will never forget that image.

Tell your DH that this behaviour can only end in tradegy!

LiegeAndLief Fri 16-Nov-12 16:38:48

I grew up as a British expat and there was a lot of this going on. As a kid I was often in the pool in the dark at parties while the grownups were chatting and drinking round the edge. I can remember diving for coins during one party in which everyone got pissed and started throwing fully dressed adults into the pool (in fact I think I found some poor bloke's glasses for him at the bottom of the pool).

Fortunately most of us could swim very well and no one got into difficulties that I remember. It was fun at the time and seemed very normal but there is no way I would want a child of mine in the pool in that situation. Especially one who was 3 or 4. YAN in any way BU.

YANBU. I would be furious with him, not her though.

BeatTheClock Fri 16-Nov-12 16:39:04

Omg yadddnbusad An pool or pond can be as dangerous to a curious unattended child as a road. You are right to be so worried. Everyone there sounds dangerously laid back.

My dd stepped into a pool once when she was about 4 and sank without trace. Luckily I was watching her and sprinted over and hauled her out. The pool was busy and no-one even noticed but me and a guy in the pool who immediately dashed over too. Dd had mistaken it for the shallow baby pool - dh was distracted with ds and dd1. It was awfulsad

SolidGoldYESBROKEMYSPACEBAR Fri 16-Nov-12 16:39:35

I am a pretty casual parent but this has frightened me, as well. It really does sound like it's only a matter of time before someone's child drowns.

I do think the idea upthread about talking to the owner of the premises is probably the best one. Your fuckwit of an H has probably already convinced the other parents that you are a neurotic hysterical woman who can be ignored, but if that pool isn't safely fenced off then I think the owners would be liable if a kid died.

Startail Fri 16-Nov-12 16:40:32

Seriously show this thread to DH
As I say by 5 DD2 was a very competent swimmer, but that's because she wasn't scared.
Long before she could swim she would happily jump in a pool without arm bands or get way out of her depth with them on.

I'm assuming you live somewhere warm and your dd is likely to be used to pools.
She will not be scared of water, she will not recognise the danger Your H and the other adults are fools

Plomino Fri 16-Nov-12 16:42:46

Jesus Christ .

Would your DH be equally happy to let her play on a motorway ? Because its just as fucking dangerous . Tragedies happen , and some of them are preventable. They happen because people are complacent , and they think its never going to happen to them . Well it does . It happens to the complacent just as often as the delibarately neglectful.

ExitPursuedByABrrrrrrr Fri 16-Nov-12 16:42:48

That is a unanimous YANBU then.

I felt sick with worry for you when I started reading the thread and now I feel a bit tearful.

Dahlen Fri 16-Nov-12 16:46:53

Yet another YANBU. I'm a great believer in 'benign neglect' but it sure as hell doesn't apply to a 3-year-old and an unsupervised swimming pool. Why is your H saying your DD 'deserves another chance'. She's 3 and is going to do what comes naturally to 3 year olds. The fact that your H doesn't recognise this and seeks to make her responsible for her own safety in a dangerous situation is very, very worrying.

This thread makes me feel sick tbh. Show it to your dh and make changes somehow because with the scenario you describe it's not if a child drowns it will be when.

MollyMurphy Fri 16-Nov-12 16:47:57

FFS I would have lost the plot with my DH for that kind of supervision. YASOOOONBU. 3 year olds aren't exactly known for their grasp on cause and effect.

We took our 2 year old to a lake. DH was "watching" him, AKA watching some boat go by and failed to notice that our son had fallen face first into the water. Thank god I was keeping an eye on them! It only takes a second.

ExitPursuedByABrrrrrrr Fri 16-Nov-12 16:51:30

This reminds me of something I heard on R4 the other day, following Nick Clegg being interviewed about parents sharing paternity/maternity leave.

A woman said that there would never be equality between men and women as parents because women do all the worrying. So true I think and this scenario underlines that fact.

HecatePropylaea Fri 16-Nov-12 16:52:00

A three year old unsupervised by a pool.

It's a headline waiting to happen.

I am sorry, but your husband is being a total bloody fool.

If, god forbid, anything did happen to her, he'd never forgive himself because it would be his fault.

some risks are not worth taking.

AlienRefluxovermypoppy Fri 16-Nov-12 16:56:07

Do people learn nothing from cases like Madelaine Mcann? Your DH needs to rethink his laid back attitude to parenting, just because all the other
irresponsible twats parents do it,doesn't mean it's safe, it means they want to get pissed and forget they have kids.

YANBU

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Fri 16-Nov-12 16:56:36

YANBU

I'm a relaxed parent, I have older children as well as younger ones and I sometimes leave them alone together

But neither I nor my DH would ever ever do this. It is so irresponsible that I think it crosses over into child neglect. Has your DH considered that should something have happened he would be held responsible?

AlienRefluxovermypoppy Fri 16-Nov-12 16:57:56

That's not even mentioning the mahoosive danger of the pool/lakes etc.

He's a twat, hope you gave him hell. I would worry about him taking her again on his own.

Especially if his attitude is 'give her another chance'????

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Fri 16-Nov-12 16:57:59

Exit I don't agree that it is all men, though judging by the op it is obviously some of them. My DH worries equally about our dc no doubt at about it

ALMOSTMRSG Fri 16-Nov-12 16:58:48

YANBU
We were on holiday in Majorca earlier this year. In the evening most families would gather round the bar which opened up on to the hotel pool area. One evening DH, DD and I were having a drink at the bar. I glanced over to the pool and saw two little girls playing with a beach ball that had been left by the side of the pool. I turned away to talk to DH and then glanced back and noticed only one little girl, who was staring over the edge of the pool. I instantly realised what had happen, rushed over to find the other little girl sinking, she was right under the water. I reached over the edge and grabed her under arm and managed to pull her far enough up to get her head out the water. By this time another guest had realised what was happening and helped me get her out. It was very frightening and upsetting. The bar area was busy and I was the only one who noticed. I will never forget the panic and fear on the little girl's face when I looked over the edge of the pool.

wonderstuff Fri 16-Nov-12 16:59:13

YANBU in anyway - I'm pretty chilled out but this thread makes my blood run cold. Agree with others, so dangerous, don't understand why your dh or the other parents think this is in anyway OK.

CecilyP Fri 16-Nov-12 16:59:20

YA absolutely NBU. As if leaving small children unsupervised by water is not bad enough, that they are also adding drink into the mix is beyond belief.

You are right to be furious.

ISeeSmallPeople Fri 16-Nov-12 17:00:12

I'd be livid, & if there was any situation where I had to go back with her, I'd have DD in a playpen.

There is a chapter in the book Freakonomics that shows that in the USA swimming pools kill more children than guns but you wouldn't leave your children alone with a loaded gun would you.

www.freakonomics.com/books/freakonomics/chapter-excerpts/chapter-5/

Astelia Fri 16-Nov-12 17:10:12

YADNBU water and children is such a dangerous combination, drowning takes only seconds and is silent. I can't believe your DH took his eyes off her when there was a pool and a lake nearby. What was he thinking?

wineandroses Fri 16-Nov-12 17:30:37

Op what are you going to do? I feel very worried for your DD and her little friends.

foslady Fri 16-Nov-12 17:32:54

So does your dh fancy a spell in a foreign prison cell for neglect leading to death?
YANBU

kittyandthegoldenfontanelles Fri 16-Nov-12 17:57:35

I'm no doubt going to be called unreasonable for this but I have to ask why the 3 year old isn't safely tucked up in bed instead of having to stay out, supervised or not, whilst the adults drink.

You see, I feel that's unreasonable

schobe Fri 16-Nov-12 18:04:12

AGED 3!! I thought you were going to say she was 8 and I was still going to say YANBU.

Like all the others, the very idea of this has given me the parent shudders. Your DH's comment 'she deserves another chance' is awful. Does he often abdicate all responsibility for stuff?

blueballoon79 Fri 16-Nov-12 18:16:47

I agree with kitty. I cannot understand how anyone would stay out late drinking with a 3 year old running around in the dark unsupervised when she could be tucked up safely in bed.

I would never EVER trust someone again with my DD (also aged 3) if they were as irresponsible and stupid as this whilst she was in their care.

You're both very luckt that she is safe and well as there could have been a tragic outcome to this.

So irresposible on many levels. The drinking, the lack of supervision. Even without the danger of the swimming pool a 3 year old should not just be left without adult supervision, in the dark whilst her parent who is supposed to be caring for her is busy getting drunk out of ear shot.

I'm horrified frankly and it makes my blood run cold just thinking about it.

Whoknowswhocares Fri 16-Nov-12 18:29:30

Your OH is clearly not a fit and proper person to be left in charge of a small child.

He says she deserves a second chance. He is right. She deserves the chance to live a long and happy life. Which is something she is quite likely not to get if he is left in charge.

Do not let her go there again, especially with her completely fucking NEGLIGENT father

In fairness to the OP she doesn't say they are out late does she? It's dark in the Uk at 5pm atm. 3 yr olds aren't in bed then. She said Friday 'night' - which could be anytime between about 5.30 and midnight imo.

Whoknowswhocares Fri 16-Nov-12 18:40:49

Quite........although you can just as easily drown at 10am.
I would imagine the outrage is at the lack of supervision, not the time of day!

MunchkinsMumof2 Fri 16-Nov-12 18:41:11

She does not deserve another chance ffs, she didn't do anything wrong! She is only 3 whereas dh and the other neglectful parents are adults and it is their responsibility to supervise the children especially around water. I would be so cross and hurt that dh's beer was more important than his dd's welfare. Grrrr on your behalf Op, give him hell over this.

tasmaniandevilchaser Fri 16-Nov-12 18:41:42

I feel sick reading your OP, I cannot understand what your DH is thinking of. Another chance? What? To die a completely preventable death? He sounds like a moron. Is he always this useless?

I'd be having a word with the venue, they could be sued or charged with manslaughter if anything happened (depends on the laws where you are I suppose).

ohmeohmy Fri 16-Nov-12 18:43:48

YANBU. can't find the link but someone posted a video here once of a child almost drowning when others were close by but didn't notice. Drowning children don't scream, they can't. He would never know until it was too late. E bar really should do something, eventually someone's child will die.

Whatnowffs Fri 16-Nov-12 18:44:27

This is the thread that i would award the "totally most NOT unreasonable" EVER award! I think id be so mad i'd leave the bastard - im only half joking

Marrow Fri 16-Nov-12 18:46:04

There's an empty space in DD's class. Her classmate drowned. He was on holiday and went to the toilet. They think he slipped on his way back and fell into the pool. Nobody noticed until it was too late sadsad

Your DH is being completely irresponsible. Your DD is relying on him to keep her safe and I feel sick thinking of everything that could go wrong.

eagerbeagle Fri 16-Nov-12 18:46:53

Me aged 11 left in charge of sister aged 6 in a private pool.. She slipped out of her rubber ring and went under. By chance only I saw. We were both out of our depth. I swam to her and pulled her up and then she grabbed me round the neck and we both went under. I swam underwater dragging her with me until I could get my feet to the bottom. If it had been more than a few feet I dread to think what would have happened to us both.

YANBU

BeatTheClock Fri 16-Nov-12 18:53:05

Oh god Marrow that is so so sadsad

I would seriously be reassessing dh's judgement. You clearly have a completely different threashold as to what is ok regarding your child. It would worry me. A lotsad

madmomma Fri 16-Nov-12 18:53:46

absolutely horrendous. One family near us have a lot of children + extended family + they held a similar 'safe in a pack' mentality. They went on holiday and came home with one child less than they went with sad She drowned in a pool while the rest of the family were splashing about around her. Everyone thought someone else was watching her.

Badvocsanta Fri 16-Nov-12 18:53:52

Your dh is a moron.

TheCatInTheHairnet Fri 16-Nov-12 18:53:53

That's just shocking!

We have our own pool and I also like to be the host. However, it never ceases to amaze me that, when offered a Friday night glass of wine, how many parents seem to lose all cares about their children's safety in the water. And they are the ones that don't get invited back, as I'm buggered if I'm going to spend my Friday evenings lifeguarding their children. But, I have to as it's my pool and my responsibility to make sure nobody gets hurt in it.

kerala Fri 16-Nov-12 18:57:38

My friend asked me to watch her 3 year old while she popped to the loo at our lovely outside heated local pool. I turned literally for one second to do up DDs life jacket and my friends daughter (a lovely good little girl) leapt into the pool in the deep end and sank to the bottom. I still have the image of her floating to the bottom of the pool in my head. Obviously I dived in and fished her out immediately but was so shocked that an otherwise usually sensible child could be so daft. An adult has to be there 100% of the time at arms length from a child at that age no compromise and I am not a helicopter parent type.

larks35 Fri 16-Nov-12 19:03:09

I have a friend who lost her 5 yo cousin some years back. She fell in the swimming pool which was around another side of the house to where the family were all gathered for a party. No-one heard her. sad

YANBU.

kittyandthegoldenfontanelles Fri 16-Nov-12 19:03:43

The op is not in the UK. She said night. I took it to mean night rather than early evening. 5.00 is not 'night'.

Perhaps the op could clarify what time they are regularly out drinking at night with their 3 year old.

PurpleGentian Fri 16-Nov-12 19:05:28

YANBU. As others have pointed out, drowning can happen silently and very very quickly.

And it's not about whether your DD deserves another chance. It's about whether you can trust your DH, or another adult, to properly supervise her near the pool. Given that your DH doesn't seem to understand why you're upset, I wouldn't be inclined to trust him to supervise your DD on future Friday nights.

DameEnidsOrange Fri 16-Nov-12 19:08:26

Another one saying YANBU at all

freddiefrog Fri 16-Nov-12 19:15:34

YANBU

It's an tragedy waiting to happen.

We were on holiday a couple of years ago in Menorca in an apartment complex which had a bar area which opened out to a swimming pool. We had been out for dinner and walking back to our apartment, past the bar, there were a bunch of kids playing at the edge of the pool splashing each other, as we approached one slipped on the wet paving, straight into the pool. DH fished him straight out, but it took a couple of minutes for his parents to realise what was going on.

I'm quite laid back, and would be happy for the kids to go off playing, but not anywhere near an unfenced pool.

Bobyan Fri 16-Nov-12 19:25:49

I had the pleasure if watching a fellow holiday maker resuscitating an eight year old who got into difficulty whilst playing with his older brother in an unguarded hotel pool in Mexico.

Half an hour later after he had been revived and was recovering, I then saw the hotel staff go table to table around the hotel restaurant until they found his parents eating their lunch.

That was 7 years ago and the memory of it still makes me shudder.

I would have bent your DH over and torn him a new arsehole, you sound remarkably restrained.

freddiefrog Fri 16-Nov-12 19:28:08

OP - there are so many examples of what could/can happen, it should scare your DH silly and ensure it never happens again

scrivette Fri 16-Nov-12 19:36:07

YANBU

A little boy drowned in my Uncles pool in Portugal. When I was on holiday a few years ago a toddler fell into the pool, luckily exactly where I was treading water and so I was able to pull him up but I was amazed at how quickly he sank.

Welovecouscous Fri 16-Nov-12 19:37:14

YANBU

You need to get your DH to read Don't Let's go to the Dogs Tonight, which is an evocative memoir of expat life in Zimbabwe. The author's youngest sister drowned while playing with the group of children as the parents were socialising.

nannyl Fri 16-Nov-12 20:08:35

YANBU

my cousins cousin died aged 3..... in the family pool, when the adults were having a party.....
the "older" children were supposed to be looking after him..... he wandered off to find his parents (so older children assumed he found them, they were ONLY CHILDREN after all) and he was found dead / drowned in their swimming pool.

this is why you NEVER leave children / toddlers un-supervised near a pool

GreyTS Fri 16-Nov-12 20:27:27

God YANBU, this thread is giving me goosebumps. I grew up in Zimbabwe where most people had swimming pools, I cannot count the amount of families local and expat that we know who had lost a toddler to drowning. And most of the time the adults were socialising right beside the pool and no one noticed until it was too late. Children unsupervised near water makes my blood run cold

otchayaniye Fri 16-Nov-12 21:20:24

we have a pool and my daughter is a strong swimmer. invited her friend and mother, who'd been saying her daughter had lessons and implied she could swim (she's a bit competitive, i've since found).

were dealing with the babies and turned to see only my daughter, her girl had fallen in and sunk. i had to swim and rescue her, subsuming my panic so as not to give this girl a complex.

but i still panic (and reading some of these dreadful stories brings it back) about that moment.

three adults, three children, daylight, no alcohol ...

i'm very laidback about things but if you have a pool children will drown unless closely watched

Rudolphstolemycarrots Fri 16-Nov-12 21:22:29

You are 100% in the right.

EverybodysSnowyEyed Fri 16-Nov-12 21:30:46

the more people there are around, the less supervision is taking place. people just assume someone else is watching

I have been at two events where kids have got lost (one was found throwing stones into a nearby river) because everyone assumed someone else was watching

this should have been a wake up call to your DH

Smellslikecatspee Fri 16-Nov-12 21:51:24

Fucking Hell.

It was always drummed in to us that a child can drown in a few inches of water,never mind a fucking pool

You are the most not unreasonable op ever. . .ever. . .ever. . . ever

thisthreadwilloutme Fri 16-Nov-12 22:02:53

YANBU I was an expat - similar club every Friday night, next to the sea, two year olds wandering about unsupervised. Do what I did, go early with the kids and let them play, then take them home get a babysitter and go back on your own and have a great time.

ExitPursuedByABrrrrrrr Fri 16-Nov-12 23:26:55

Maytheodds It is always the excpetion that proves the rule.

blanksquit Sat 17-Nov-12 00:12:41

yanbu Three year olds give the impression of being able to play unsupervised but they are really not able to. They get up to all sorts of mischief.

It's also not fair to expect older dc to supervise them.

One of you needs to be with her or at least have sight of her at all times in that situation I'd say.

SoleSource Sat 17-Nov-12 01:04:52

He cannot be trusted with your child. Selfish bastard.

SomeoneElseHere Sat 17-Nov-12 01:30:29

He was there 6-9pm. That's not really the point. Most kids here go to bed at about 10 - long nap in the day.

SolidGoldYESBROKEMYSPACEBAR Sat 17-Nov-12 01:33:32

Don't forget, though, that the biggest killer of children is road accidents. (Next biggest, in terms of non-natural ie excluding illnesses, is domestic violence) People think it won't happen to them or their DC so happily carry on driving cars. Also, 3/4 is the age when you can actually let your kids go, a little bit, at a social event that's a mix of adults and children, and if people are used to doing so in places without serious hazards like an open fire or a pool/pond they might be in the mindset of 'Kids are safe because we're among friends' rather than total negligence.

So while this sounds like a risky situation, a great deal of responsibility is down to the owner of the premises - if you know that your venue is regularly used by families with young children for social events, then you need to take a lot more care WRT making it safe. And having an accessible but unsupervised pool is not safe.

This thread is just getting a bit 'waa, waa, parents should NEVER expect to have a social life, they've got to follow their DC around, flapping and squawking, till DC are old enough to vote and anyone who doesn't is a CHILD MURDERER'.

'kinnell not often you see a virtual unanimous YANBU.
Does he realise now that he was in the wrong?

Cahoots Sat 17-Nov-12 01:45:09

Wow, this is crazy. I completely understand your point of view. We used to live as ex pats in South Africa where there was a similar care free attitude towards health and safety. The number of lovely sensible people that would drink drive was incredible? DC's never wore bike helmets. Pool safety was very low on the list of priorities. Domestic pools did not have to be fenced.
It was all great fun but I was always a little wary of safety issues.

Cahoots Sat 17-Nov-12 01:48:46

Off topic....
Welovecouscous. I loved that book too.

differentnameforthis Sat 17-Nov-12 02:39:18

and in Oz, where there are pools everywhere, they are extremely conscious about supervising garden pools, keeping kids locked out and fitting alarms

Believe me, Aussies can be as slack as the best of them! I cringe at what I see here sometimes (am a Brit in Oz).

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Sat 17-Nov-12 02:39:38

It feels a bit superfluous to add my voice, but this is so important I have to.
I was very, very laid back about supervision when my 3 kids were small. Happy to keep them up late as long as they were happy. Fine for them to be with us at parties where adults were drinking alchohol, some things are a calculated risk.
But, like other posters, I am shivering and covered in goosebumps.
Certain things cannot be compromised. Roads are one. Water is another. A child of 3 should have the eyes of an adult on them constantly, and the adult with the eyes should be in close proximity to the child.
I have 3 friends who have been at cocktail party/bbq type events around pools, with lots of kids, and one of them has drowned. One baby crawled on to the pool cover and slid under it, it took a while to find him.
Your husband really needs to realise how quickly and quietly this happens.

You aren't saying much OP. Please at least tell us that you will show him this thread

Brycie Sat 17-Nov-12 03:06:47

God pools are a nightmare. You are right. Children have drowned in swimming lessons with adults in the pool, it's so bloody easy. You are right right right.

IllageVidiot Sat 17-Nov-12 04:33:00

YANBU obviously, I'm just so glad your DD is safe and well.
Your H has left me speechless tbh...I hope it's guilt and shame at being caught out when he knew he was doing something wrong that was the cause of that comment because I just can't fathom an intelligent, sensible parent seriously thinking a toddler needs a 'second chance'. If toddlers, or children in general, were equipped to, and adept at, making good choices they wouldn't need us - we'd just lay some eggs and bugger off.

As someone who has recently had the unhappy task of doing a reading at the funeral of a beloved toddler of a family friend that drowned in their pond during a birthday BBQ, I just can't reconcile your H's attitude at all.
It was early evening, a group of people with other children present, in a moderately sized garden. The pond is large but not overly deep and is in, what you would assume to be, full view. Toddler son was just 3 and he loved the fishes. Knowbody knows for sure what happened, but that night ended with a tragedy and, along with the devastation of losing a child, a feeling of guilt that seems insurmountable. I wasn't there that night and I still don't know if I am grateful for that or heartbroken. No-one saw or heard anything in time to save him.
If it can happen there, it's only a matter of time before something awful happens at the bar - of course parents should have a social life and some of my happiest reollections are of being allowed to be up, playing and involved in exactly this sort of socialising but someone has to be on watch.

What is your next move with your husband?

Euphemia Sat 17-Nov-12 06:25:18

Please update us once you've shown DH this thread! What an idiot - YANBU

ilovetermtime Sat 17-Nov-12 06:47:20

YANBU

I'm also one for benign neglect, but never around water.

This thread has made my blood run cold, it really has.

Hesterton Sat 17-Nov-12 07:42:55

The child left behind also suffers. One of my DD's playmates at school years ago lived with her alcoholic mother, a poor woman obessed and consumed with guilt about having 'let' her sister drown when she was in charge of her in the garden (which had a pool).

She was 6 when this happened, her little sister was 3.

flow4 Sat 17-Nov-12 07:45:03

I'm guessing the OP has been quiet because she went to bed. She's in a different time zone. She posted a while after her DH came home, so somewhere 10pm-midnight, I guess.
She posted again when it was early morning her time, and I guess she'll be back in the eve - around 3pm UK time.

OP I'm another one who agrees YADNBU.

But even if/when you go back with your DD to this club, and even though you're supervising, after hearing all these stories, I'd be inclined to insist she wears a life jacket while she runs around... That sounds a bit OTT as I say it, but I don't go to parties where 3 year olds run around near pools. I wouldn't ever have let my kids near a pool without armbands at that age - even in the day time, with full supervision and no alcohol involved.

And I'd put the frighteners on the club too...

I'm so glad your DD and her friend were ok. smile

spottyock Sat 17-Nov-12 08:17:56

It sounds as though all of the adults are gaining a false sense of security from each other's apathy.
This is a tragedy waiting to happen.

Proudnscary Sat 17-Nov-12 09:04:16

You are NOT overreacting, you are NOT being unreasonable.

Children do drown around water without supervision.

My son nearly drowned when he was five and was left for 30 seconds (by my dh - twat angry).

Also I totally agree with the danger of a big crowd and everyone thinking someone else has an eye on their children.

I am also a benign neglect advocate and am far from being a helicopter parent but this is just insanity.

Brycie Sat 17-Nov-12 09:18:18

SolidGold, this thread isn't doing that at all. I don't think you understand how dangerous pools are. Lifeguards schmifeguards. They only lull you into a false sense of security in a situation like that. Covers too. Three year olds shouldn't be running around in the dark at a club when all the adults looking after them are drinking. It's hardly helicopter parenting and waa my child can't have a "social life" (joke joke joke). It's a completely normal perspective.

Brycie Sat 17-Nov-12 09:21:07

"flapping and squawking"

Good God.

Proudnscary Sat 17-Nov-12 09:24:35

Oh SGB is great but she does like to be the voice of controversy and take it too far sometimes! I'd ignore that remark Brycie.

Brycie Sat 17-Nov-12 09:25:06

Oh is that what it is grin I thought she meant it.

pigletmania Sat 17-Nov-12 09:25:47

YANBU at all. Better be safe than sorry. Your dh is a bit dim about safety

BiteTheTopsOffIcedGems Sat 17-Nov-12 09:31:26

I know someone who's child drowned in the pool in their back garden. 3 years old.
YANBU.

hattymattie Sat 17-Nov-12 09:31:33

In France two children age 6 and 4 I think disappeared during a party this summer in some apartments. At first the Police thought they'd been kidnapped and a huge search was announced - this was on the national news and everything. They were found 3 or 4 days later at the bottom of an unused swimming pool in a neighouring house - they'd seen the pool from the apartment balcony and slipped out for a swim whilst the adults socialised.

LittleBairn Sat 17-Nov-12 09:34:54

YANBU another chance to do what exactly drown? Frankly I'd be barely on speaking terms if my DH thought it was ok to sit in a bar and not supervise his 4 year old!

Rindercella Sat 17-Nov-12 09:37:56

YANBU at all. I don't see how anyone could actually think that it is reasonable to let an unaccompanied 3 year old child run around near open water.

My mother still shivers when she remembers the phone call she received from the husband of a friend of hers some 40 years ago. He'd called to say his wife and their children couldn't come for tea the following day as they'd been at their country club that afternoon and their 3 year son had disappeared and was later found in the pool. He had drowned.

Lots of adults boozing and chatting, unsupervised small children running around and open water just do not mix. It is a tragedy waiting to happen.

Rindercella Sat 17-Nov-12 09:38:53

Oh, and as for giving your DD 'another chance'?! Another chance for what? For showing her father to be totally irresponsible in his duty of care to her?

differentnameforthis Sat 17-Nov-12 11:12:43

Perhaps the op could clarify what time they are regularly out drinking at night with their 3 year old.

Pretty sure it doesn't actually matter & makes absolutely NO difference to what happened. Seems the op's dh would have been careless whatever time of the day.

Unless you need to know the time so you can judge her & berate her for having her child out late (as you have already done so) in which case, shame on you for using this thread to judge!

IloveJudgeJudy Sat 17-Nov-12 11:25:31

Another one here whose parenting style is benign neglect. But who is uncompromising around pools. DS2 nearly drowned in a council pool here. We had only looked away for a split second and he was face down in the water. The lifeguard hadn't noticed. YANBU at all. As others have said it's quiet.

kittyandthegoldenfontanelles Sat 17-Nov-12 11:25:51

No. No shame on me. As I said earlier. I don't think children this young should be regularly out so late so adults can drink. That is the point for me.

Her husband, and by the sounds of it all the other adults are being neglectful and the op seems the only one recognising and trying to rectify this. However, I don't think the child should be in that situation in the first place. I feel she should be safely tucked up in bed.

The post you quoted above, different was in response to someone suggesting that night time needed be past the child's bed time.

That's my opinion, I've made it, now I'm off.

flow4 Sat 17-Nov-12 11:39:31

kitty, you seem to have missed some background info: the OP lives in a hot overseas country where children have long afternoon naps and are awake later than might be usual in the UK. Children in hot countries are often 'tucked up in bed' during the hottest part of the day, rather than the evenings, which are coolest.

Also, 'the club' is an important part of many ex-pats lives - and just as important for the children as the adults. It wouldn't be good for the OP's child to be deprived entirely of this social contact.

differentnameforthis Sat 17-Nov-12 11:48:08

It doesn't matter, the time is irrelevant. Where you think the child should be is irrelevant.

It's summer here, we are a few weeks off our summer holidays (when the girls will get 7 weeks off school/kindy) and my girls are up way past bedtime because it is too damn hot to sleep, so we relax/play/chat in the pool & they go to bed when it is (albeit slightly) cooler. Seriously, going to bed when it is 35 odd is NOT comfortable.

You also miss the point that sometimes it is too damn hot to socialise most days, so we do a lot of it at night when the temp drops enough to feel comfortable outside. For a 3yr old this is no issue, as they don't have school the next day.

Time is irrelevant. This could easily have happened at 4pm at a kids get together. You take umbridge because the op's dh dared to be socialising too!

differentnameforthis Sat 17-Nov-12 11:49:22

and my girls will be up way past bedtime

BegoniaBampot Sat 17-Nov-12 11:55:53

It can happen so quickly. My husband was in a small baby pool with our 12 month old. The baby was in of those inflatable things they sit in just bobbing about. I was at the side discussing lunch with him when I noticed the inflatable bobbing empty. I looked down and the baby was lying on the bottom just looking up at me. No fear, no splashing it was so calm. I screamed and husband realised and reached over and pulled him up, he was that close. It was terrifying and I still can't believe how easy these things can happen. Water is just treacherous for little children.

SomeoneElseHere Sat 17-Nov-12 14:13:44

Sorry, been out all day.

Firstly, I'm not going to apologise for taking my daughter out to our on-site bar/restaurant for occasioanl evenings. As has been stated laready, it's really hot and humid here (not in Australia, in developing South East Asian country, there are quite a few Australian here though).

Have spoken at length with DH. Won't be showing him the thread as he got horribly upset when I asked something about him on here before (he was being UR!) so would rather he thought about it without him thinking MN have whipped me up into a frenzy. I think, after our chat, he does get it (sort of). His comment about 'another chance' was apparently when he thought I was banning her from coming with us at all, when I thought we were talking about very close supervision.

Either way, it seems we are (pretty much) on the same page now. In that, I have put my foot firmly down and she will be supervised when there at all times. He agrees to take repsonsibility for this as well as me, but I'd rather know for sure, IYSWIM?

BegoniaBampot Sat 17-Nov-12 14:31:07

Seems you've got it sorted OP. just hope he realises how truly dangerous this can be.

nannyl Sat 17-Nov-12 17:48:59

pleased to hear he has realised how dangerous his actions were

Welovecouscous Sat 17-Nov-12 18:05:54

Great and I would just 'happen' to give him don't let's go to the dogs tonight for Xmas .

Chandon Sun 18-Nov-12 15:06:38

Kitty post is typical of someone who has never steped outsde their iwn town, and cannt imagine how other people live....

The heat changes everything, we lived in a place where it would be simply too hot to go put in the sun with kds betwen 11 and 5, so they would napand then we would swim after dinner, bed much later than here.

Glad you ad a good chat about it op, it is too impotsnt not to!

financialwizard Sun 18-Nov-12 17:14:01

YANBU. I would be apoplectic. It is far too dangerous for a child of that age to be anywhere near water like a swimming pool without adult supervision.

If it were me I would have told my husband he was a complete pratt and kicked him into touch.

Inertia Sun 18-Nov-12 18:15:09

If he 'sort of' gets it, then he is not taking it anywhere near seriously enough.
If he got it, he'd have been horrified from the second he found her , and looking for every possible way to keep her safe in future.

I see why you don't want to show him this this thread, but is there a national safety website(ROSPA?? ) with relevant stats you could look at together ?

kittyandthegoldenfontanelles Sun 18-Nov-12 20:02:01

"Kitty post is typical of someone who has never steped outsde their iwn town, and cannt imagine how other people live..." [sic]

chandon, with respect, you don't know where I've lived or what I've experienced in my life. I've got an opinion on this situation and I've given it. I believe that's what open forums are for.

Brycie Sun 18-Nov-12 21:05:47

Chandon - it really is possible to have travelled and lived in various different climates including tropical climates and still think it's not great to have children up till late running around unsupervised in a bar with adults drinking and an open pool nearby. People get blase about it because "everyone does it" and no one wants to be a party pooper, and xx bar is the place to be on xx day with "everybody". Lots of countries where expats live are too hot to have children running around outside between say 11 and four. They don't sleep all that time. They're usually indoors, at school, nursery, playdates, eating, playing, at home, maybe even swimming or in the car being taken to the supermarket - guess what - just like everybody in the UK.

Brycie Sun 18-Nov-12 21:07:03

I've never lived in Hong Kong but I have friends who did, where the thing to do was junk parties at the weekend. Everyone wanted to be relaxed, bring all the kids, blah blah. Children drowned.

Brycie Sun 18-Nov-12 21:08:14

Can't abide this "I've lived abroad so you know nothing" attitude.

fluffypillow Sun 18-Nov-12 21:17:32

If you knew that your DH is very 'half hearted' in his supervision of your DD at these evenings (you stated this in your op), then why did you let him take her alone anyway?

You said you were ill, but I think you may have put your DDs safety second too. YABU for that, sorry.

kittyandthegoldenfontanelles Sun 18-Nov-12 23:38:48

Thank you, Brycie. I felt like I was a lone voice for a minute there.

diddl Mon 19-Nov-12 06:52:45

So it´s all the OPs fault??

That´s a perfect get out for her husband, isn´t it?

That he doesn´t bother & therefore she will?

Lazy twat who probably daren´t parent when others aren´t.

Oh well, if there´s an accident, at least he can take comfort in the fact that he wasn´t embarrassing himself by caring enough to watch his daughter.

Maybe OP thought he would make the effort if he had to?

Rollmops Mon 19-Nov-12 08:45:10

YANBU the slightest. I am furious on your behalf. Children at that age and much older, even, should not be without adult supervision around pools etc. Even if the child has had swimming lessons etc. he/she is still very much in danger of drowning if accidentally pushed/fallen into deep water.
The adults in your expat (one assumes) bar are imbeciles.

kittyandthegoldenfontanelles Mon 19-Nov-12 11:13:07

Of course it's not all the ops fault but the girl has two parents.

We all should be able leave our front doors open and let young children play out alone but we cant. So we don't

Quite a gamble to think he'd make the effort in this case if he's never been seen to before.

diddl Mon 19-Nov-12 11:23:16

"Of course it's not all the ops fault but the girl has two parents."

Yes she does have two-but by the sounds of things only one of them CBA to bother.

I was thinking perhaps he doesn´t make the effort because OP always does & therefore he doesn´t have to when she is there.

Well there are still areas where kids can play out unsupervised.

But obviously where there is an accessible pool isn´t one.

kittyandthegoldenfontanelles Mon 19-Nov-12 11:28:38

I see what you are saying diddl and I think it is a good point but a child's life is quite a price for a gamble to see if he will do his job properly.

diddl Mon 19-Nov-12 11:36:44

"quite a price for a gamble to see if he will do his job properly"

I doubt that Op was doing that!

Even if my husband was "half hearted" compared to me-it wouldn´t occur to me that when in sole charge he wouldn´t actively keep his child away from a swimming pool

Lets hope that it´s resolved now & her husband will step up in future.

All parents not bothering with their kids as they don´t want to be the only ones to-can´t believe that adults would bow to such peer pressure-if that´s what it is.

YANBU YANBU YANBU YANBU YANBU

Reading that made me feel sick. My son almost drowned age 2 in the pond at the local park. It was only by the grace of God that I was alerted in the nick of time.

Your DH does not understand the seriousness of this.

Whoknowswhocares Mon 19-Nov-12 11:55:00

I'd be too scared that OH would not have 'got it' sufficiently to risk letting him have sole charge in that situation again.
At least not for a VERY long time. The OP was not at fault the first time as she was unaware of just how stupid her Oh was capable of being. She no longer has that luxury

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