Awful situation over inheritance-who is BU?

(401 Posts)
whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 08:22:54

I have namechanged as this is such a volatile subject in my family....despite the fact that nobody has even died yet confused

It is a long story and it is bothering me every day because I do not know what to do or say and it is causing no end of upset and stress within the family.

I am the eldest of 3, our parents divorced years ago. My mum lives in family home (big-ish house in good area) with my younger sister who is planning on moving out soon with her dp so they can live together.

HOWEVER dsis has some health issues (epilepsy) and our mum wants to provide for her so the house will (when our parents have died) go to her, if she has moved out she will just move straight back in again and take it over (no mortgage so she wont have to worry about paying as she has no job).

I have accepted this, but my brother is livid. absolutely livid and has said there is no way he will accept this, he wants the house sold and the money split 3 ways. He has said that yes, she is ill but that we all have problems in our lives and it shouldnt be just one child that is provided for.
He himself has a good job, 2 children but a lot of debt and is renting so sees the money as possibly a deposit for a house and he has mentioned to me that my circumstances are not great (we live in a council house, have 4 dcs with a genetic condition and debts too) but really after living with my sister and seeing her every day I know she will never really be able to work so will not get a chance to get a house like that-she is currently waiting for a council flat to move in with her dp temporarily untill time comes that hey get the family home.

I think my brother should really give this up now, stop going on about it and just accept it like I have. The last thing I want in a few years time is to be caught up in a horrible battle over a house. Yes, that amount of money would be life changing but at the end of the day it is my mums house and it is her choice which of her children she leaves it to.

It is causing a lot of tension between my brother and sister they are both gearing up towards a huge fight over this at some point and I dont know what to say. What do i do?

RedHelenB Tue 13-Nov-12 08:26:56

Might well be eaten up by care home fees fior yoiur mum so really not worth getting het up about!!! I agree with you but I can see your brothers point.

diddl Tue 13-Nov-12 08:27:21

Well even if your mum does do this, your sister could sell & do a three way split.

i agree that it´s pointless your brother going on about it, but I think it´s horrible of your mum tbh.

TandB Tue 13-Nov-12 08:27:52

This is really tricky. Ultimately it is up to your mother who she leaves her estate to.

But it seems somewhat unfair to prioritise one child's needs to the complete exclusion of the other two children.

If the matter is open to discussion, might a compromise be for the house to be sold - presumably if it is in a nice area and a good size it will fetch a good price - and the bulk of the proceeds go to your sister to purchase another, smaller home suitable for her needs. Your brother and you could then each receive a useful, albeit smaller, sum.

If your mother is determined, however, then your brother needs to get his head round the idea that this is what is going to happen. He won't be able to challenge the will as he won't be able to show that he was being maintained by the deceased and should therefore be provided for.

msrisotto Tue 13-Nov-12 08:28:36

God I hate what money does to people. And inheritance issues tend to get ugly too.

I agree with you and your mum though. Your sister won't have the opportunities that you and your brother have, due to her condition. It is understandable that your mum wants to do this for her, because who else will? He is seeing green and being selfish and incredibly crass.

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 08:28:40

Hmm. I can see your brothers point. Why can't your sister work if she has epilepsy?

My mother has it, quite badly but manages to maintain a job. I know several people who have it and work.

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 08:29:20

By the way while itbis up to your mum. Its also a bit of a kick in teeth.

valiumredhead Tue 13-Nov-12 08:29:24

Do nothing. Let him rant and rave but make sure your mum has a proper will with a solicitor stating her wishes and reasons why. There is a law that protects families who can claim on inheritance iirc but they have to prove they have not been provided for - you could claim if your parents left you nothing and left everything they had to charity instead. You'd probably be best off posting this in legal to get proper advice.

avivabeaver Tue 13-Nov-12 08:30:05

agree, might be nothing left by the time your mum dies.

also, whilst i would not do this-i would split 3 ways, will there be a huge fight? if your mum makes it clear in her will that she has considered it, and it goes to your sister, what fight is there to have?

it might be worth sitting down with your mum and having a proper conversation about it. maybe she assumed you and dbro would be able to get on housing ladder but this has not proved the case. how would your sister feel about it?

BlueberryHill Tue 13-Nov-12 08:30:07

RedHelen, makes a very good point. Is the house big enough to be sold, the proceeds divided up, but with enough for your sister to have a large enough amount to be able to buy a nice, just smaller house?

The risk is that your DB and DS will be estranged once your mum dies, that is an awful position to be in, if your DB feels hard done by. Everyone has a valid opinion, in the end it is your mothers cash, but she does need to consider the ongoing relationship between her children.

valiumredhead Tue 13-Nov-12 08:30:24

red has a very good point!

If your mum lived in a modest house then I would think it would be fair to leave it solely to your sister as both you and your brother are 'housed'.

As it's a big house and worth considerably more then it's likely that your sister is the only one of the 3 of you who will ever be able to live somewhere so big/great - and that's not fair, to elevate one childs life fortunes so far above the others.

It might be better if it were split but that the majority of the share should go to buying a house/flat so your sister always has somewhere to live but that there would be a modest inheritance for the other 2.

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 08:31:02

What I hate most is having to have these conversations with them almost as if our parents are dead already, it upsets me.

Also, I am lucky to have a council house, yes our dcs are unwell and dh and I have same cond but I think at least for now dh can work and we have a 3 bed house. my brother is healthy and has a brilliant job but oour sister cannot work and her dp has a badly paid job, this would be there only chance to live in something other than a 1 bed.

captainmummy Tue 13-Nov-12 08:31:24

All things being equal, the estate should of course be split 3 ways (it's what i am going to do) but it is your mums estate, her wishes and there is nothing any of you can do.

You can talk to your mum and sugest that maybe you and your DB get something, but in law, you are not entitled to anything.

it took me so long to type that I see kungfu has already said it grin

NotMostPeople Tue 13-Nov-12 08:31:34

If the house were sold would there be enough money left to buy a property each? If not could you take the amount to buy your sister a one bedroom flat and then split the remainder between you and your brother.

CailinDana Tue 13-Nov-12 08:31:41

What a kind person you are, I hope they appreciate you. Honestly I think you're unusual to be so magnanimous about this. I think a lot of people would feel the same as your brother.

Wouldn't it make more sense for your sister to use the proceeds from the sale of your mother's house as a deposit for a house with her DP? It does seem rather unfair that she gets - what - perhaps 3-400k while you and your brother get nothing. If you and your brother were rolling in it, it might be understandable but from what you say you're not.

How bad is your sister's epilepsy? Is she really incapable of working?

I'm not 100% sure but as far as I know for amounts above a certain level inheritance is subject to inheritance tax, which your sister might be liable for. So it might not be as straightforward as it appears.

Obviously it is up to your parents what they do with their possessions. I do symmpathise with your brother but ultimately it's not his right to inherit your parents house. If they really want to make sure that your sister gets the house they need to make sure that their will is absolutely airtight. As for your own position I can't offer any advice except to try to stay out of it. Do you rparents have any idea of teh problems this could potentially cause, and how does your sister feel aboutit? She could, if she wanted to, refuse the legacy at the time.

amothersplaceisinthewrong Tue 13-Nov-12 08:34:09

Don't see why your sister has to inherit a big family house mortgage free while you all live in lesser accomodation with your varying problems.

Of course it is up to your Mum what she does but what she has done IS actuallly unfair - ideally be sold and the monies split three ways so you are all helped out. With your sister maybe getting a larger chunk to set herself up. You say she does not work, but what about her DP????. Also what happens if something happens to your sister. Does the DP inherit at the siblings expense.......

I can see where your brother is coming from!

But as someone else has said, this may never be an issue if your Mum has to pay for a care home.....

tiggytape Tue 13-Nov-12 08:34:19

I think your mum is wrong to do this. Three children should mean a 3 way split.
Nobody knows what the future holds. God forbid but your brother could be struck down tomorrow and never able to work again and your sister might win £55 million on the lottery.

If I were you though, I'd stay well out of it as much you can.

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 08:34:31

my sister has stated she wants the house she grew up in-will never sell it she wants to move straight back in and then have a family. her and dp are currently waiting for a 1 bed council flat which they will give up when my mums house becomes available.

TakeMyEyesButNotTheGoat Tue 13-Nov-12 08:34:54

Is there any other issues with your DM, DB & Dsis?

Has there been a lot of favouritism with your sister as she's the youngest?

A recent event with my younger brother caused an issue between my older brother and DM a few months ago. While DM wasn't in the wrong this time, older DB snapped because of all the favouritism over the years.

ENormaSnob Tue 13-Nov-12 08:35:56

I'm with your brother tbh.

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 08:37:26

my sister has stated she wants the house she grew up in-will never sell it she wants to move straight back in and then have a family. her and dp are currently waiting for a 1 bed council flat which they will give up when my mums house becomes available

I can see why your brother is pissed off with that attitude

ENormaSnob Tue 13-Nov-12 08:38:53

The sister is planning to marry and have a family? Presuming then the dp can work?

I think your mum is grossly unfair and cruel.

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 08:39:21

Tbh before my sister got unwell she was always the 'favourite' but I always assumed it was just because shes the youngest. Since she became unwell my mum has been even more protective but having unwell dcs myself i can understand.

My sister has a lot of absense seizures, occasionally has big 'proper' ones.she sleeps a lot (think its her medication).She doesnt like unfamiliar places and only wants to eventually live/raise a family in the house she grew up in.

Who cares what she wants?

I think your brother or you could approach your mum and say that you would be hurt if she got what she wanted and not what her (and you) needed.

carabos Tue 13-Nov-12 08:40:37

As a parent, I find it difficult to imagine putting one of my children ahead of the other. I get that your sister has health issues and that this is driving your DM's decision-making, and could understand it if those difficulties were such that your Dsis couldn't live independently, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Why does your Dsis epilepsy trump your own health problems and those of your 4DCs?

goingupinsmoke Tue 13-Nov-12 08:41:27

How will your sister pay the tax that will be due on the inheritance? or are you all going to have to chip in on that?

Cahoots Tue 13-Nov-12 08:42:34

I'm also with your brother. It is the only way to go in most cases. Especially is your DSis does end up with a council house. It is not as though she is destitute. It is possible that your brother has less cash than you think.

GlesgaRocket Tue 13-Nov-12 08:42:47

If i were your sister then i wouldn't be able to live with myself if i done my siblings out of an inheritance.
And that's basically what's happening here.

I can understand your mum wanting to ensure her daughter is provided for, but she should be doing that equally for all of her children.
Your mum is being very unfair to her other kids, in my opinion. And your sister is sounding very selfish.

FrillyMilly Tue 13-Nov-12 08:42:55

I agree with your brother. It's very unfair of your mother to give the house to your sister. Your sister is also setting herself up for a lot of disappointment if she is insistant that she wants to raise a family in her family home. If she cannot work and her dp is low paid how will they pay the utilities etc on a large home. What if your mother goes in to a care home and the house is taken to pay for that. There's also the issue of a possibly very large inheritance tax bill depending on the value of the house.

MikeLitoris Tue 13-Nov-12 08:43:07

If she is not well enough to work is she going to be able to have a family? (not shit stirring, genuine question)

Imho your mum is wrong.

What if (god forbid) you or your db get ill or have an accident. Will she leave it to two of you and just leave the third out?

What does your sister think should happen to the house?

CaptainDennyisDead Tue 13-Nov-12 08:43:49

Your sister and mother are BU. Sell the house, divide into 4 and she gets two portions.

If she was dating someone who wasn't such a loser had a better job, would you mother feel differently?

Bogeyface Tue 13-Nov-12 08:43:57

Is your mum ill? How old is she?

Seems that your sister is waiting on your mum to die for her life to start, which is horrible! If she cant hold down a job because she is so ill then surely she cant just assume she can manage children with her condition. Btw, thats not to say people with epilepsy cant have kids, I know most can, but it all just smells of an excuse not to work to me, and your mum is facilitating it.

I know someone with severe epilepsy who works, she manages it, its hard but she manages it. I wonder if your mum has created a situation where rather than your sister not being able to work, she has been told that she will never have to. Is she your mums favourite or was her illness always an excuse for her?

Tbh, while I know that legally your mum can do what she likes, I am with your brother.

Nonnus Tue 13-Nov-12 08:51:04

Just to clarify what some have said up-thread about claiming under the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act. Your brother won't simply be able to claim because your mum hasn't provided for him. He will only be able to claim if he can show that he had a reasonable expectation that she would provide for him, and that usually involves showing that during her lifetime she supported him financially regularly.

It is quite open to anyone of capacity (i.e. mental health unimpaired) to leave their entire estate to only one child, or indeed to leave all their children out and leave everything to a charity. It happens all the time.

As another poster had said though? It is possible for your sister to divide the estate if she wishes. You do this usually by a deed of variation, which can be a fairly simple matter for a solicitor to deal with. I'd imagine your brother would have a better chance of seeing some money if he works with your sister rather than railing against her.

lamename Tue 13-Nov-12 08:52:52

While it's not illegal to disinherit your children, it's extremely, er, challenging behaviour. Your DM has, in my view, been thoroughly unpleasant - not least because this row could split the family before and after she's gone. Hey ho.

Well, you might be better off raising the practical aspects of her decision with her to try and make her behave a bit better.

Who is going to care for her in her old age? She can hardly ask children and grandchildren she's disinherited to drop everything to look after her. They'll be too busy working, for a start. And the favoured child and her DP have already said they'll be moving out....

What if DSis and DP split up? Does she really want to give half her wealth to an ex-partner of one of her children? Will she explain that to the GCs please, because you're not going to - as it is, she's giving half her possessions to a boyfriend of a child at the expense of her own children.

What if someone else gets ill? Hardly unlikely. Does she really want people to remember her as 'the woman who left us nothing but an inherited illness' or otherwise.

I feel for your DB in this - he works hard but hasn't got a secure home. That's a mean position to be in, and to have your nearest and dearest take his only chance of security is cruel. Altho one would wish otherwise, I don't blame him if he wanted to ease away from a family like that.

Bilbobagginstummy Tue 13-Nov-12 08:52:54

Your parents might live to over 100!

Whatever is done about inheritance (and a 3-way split is fairest especially if plenty), your sister must not put off having a family until your parents are dead. She might die before them!

Bilbobagginstummy Tue 13-Nov-12 08:53:33

For parents read mum, sorry. Same point though.

hazleweatherfieldgirldetective Tue 13-Nov-12 08:53:51

I don't profess to be an expert on benefit law, it's not my area, but if your sister came into such a substantial inheritence, wouldn't all of her benefits aside from any disability related ones come to a grinding halt? I could be wrong, but I would imagine she would be expected to sell the house to fund herself until the proceeds ran out, wouldn't she?

She would also probably be liable for a pretty hefty chunk of inheritence tax on top, not to mention the fact that the house may have to be sold before your DM passes away, should she ever need to fund a care home. I don't think your DM has thought this through particularly well, and, bless you, you're being far more generous than I think most people would be.

I can see your DB's point, why should your sister receive such a huge benefit? We'd all like to own the house we grew up in, mortgage free, but sadly that just isn't a realistic prospect. If the house is large there will be large council tax bills and large utility bills to go along with it. If she's strapped for cash now, how will her situation be any different when your DM dies?

Is your mum's death imminent? She could live into her 90s, need to sell up for sheltered accommodation, all sorts could happen.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Tue 13-Nov-12 08:55:04

I think it's unfair of you to think your brother should accept it. It's not right, it's not fair, and I can fully understand why he can't accept it.

If your sister was alone, you might have a point. But she isn't, she has a dp who can help support her. Why should he get a free home when your brother and you get nothing?

And it's it like the sister would get nothing. She could keep the house and her dp could get a mortgage to buy you and your brother out.

I think you need to talk to your mum and ask her if she realises what a rift she is likely to create. This won't just go away after her death, the resentment will continue, and maybe even grow as circumstances change. Surely your Mum wants your sister to have her brothers love and support more than she wants her to have a house?

Many people would love to have the house they grew up in, but reality took over and it's frequently not an option.

I know several epileptics and they all work. In order to enable the working they tried a few different drug regimes to get the best situation possible. My exSIL is epileptic, quite severely and the only thing she can't do right now is drive. She has a demanding full time job in a care home.

And she now has a DP who works full time also.

So if I were the mum here, I'd be splitting the estate 3 ways. I would not be putting one child above others.

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 08:55:39

no, mum not ill, she is 60.

Yes, sister was always favourite long before diagnosis but I had to just stop feeling jealous it nearly destroyed me when I was younger so I decided not to care anymore or get involved, my brother cant just let it go, he wants assurance he will get his money and she wants a nice house.

I just want a quiet life and the 3 of us to all get on as when our parents ARE actually gone it will be such a shame for everybody to be arguing.

Iam not fully aware of all the ins and outs of this working/not working thing I am not with her 24/7 so I cannot make a judgement based on what I see.She is sometimes v poorly, other times can be fine for days its very unpredictable.

hazleweatherfieldgirldetective Tue 13-Nov-12 08:58:36

Your DM is not ill, only 60, and your DSis is laying out her life plans around your DM's death?! Your DSis sounds VILE!

The sister may not be able to have a family anyway. I know quite a few of the epilepsy drugs can affect pregnancies badly, my exSIL was told she'd have to try out a new drug regime if she wanted children, she was very careful to ensure she didn't get pregnant at that time.

Tailtwister Tue 13-Nov-12 08:59:18

Your mum is being extremely unfair. Your sister has a partner and there's no good reason why she should inherit the family home in it's entirety. The house should be sold and the proceeds split 3 ways.

I don't blame your brother at all. What your mum is doing is really cruel.

lamename Tue 13-Nov-12 08:59:30

60?? So this row could last 30 or 35 years??

valiumredhead Tue 13-Nov-12 09:00:16

God God, you sister is going to wait how long to start a family? confused

Dozer Tue 13-Nov-12 09:00:18

Your DM is being unfair and favouring your sister, as she has always done, and your sister is allowing this because it benefits her (to the detriment of her siblings), no wonder your DB is pissed off with them both. Their fault if there's a rift as a result now or in the future, not his. And not your job to keep the peace!

BlueberryHill Tue 13-Nov-12 09:00:22

ihavenofuckingclue and LauriesFairyonthetreeeatsCake are spot on. There are likes and needs, she doesn't need to be in that house and is being reallly selfish. My sympathy for your brother is growing. Your sister, whilst I can see the reasons for her 'needing' more, it doesn't mean that she should have everything.

If your mother doesn't want your DB and DS to have a relationship after she is dead, remember there will just be the three of you as close family, she is going the right way about it.

abitcoldupnorth Tue 13-Nov-12 09:01:14

Never wait for dead-man's money, as one friend with a very rich but long-lived family put it.

And yes, what about care-home fees?

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 09:01:31

yes it could last 35 years and I cant cope now being stuck in middle of this horrible argument sad

Dozer Tue 13-Nov-12 09:01:41

It's the 60yo DM who has raised the issue I think? Even if only in theory - and as others say, care costs could easily eat up all of the money - it is still hurtful, because it demonstrates the DM's priorities and favouritism over her DC.

If the mum persists in this plan, which is her right to do so, the the sister's DP is going to gain at the expense of the OP and her brother.

valiumredhead Tue 13-Nov-12 09:02:35

I would just removed myself and refuse to discuss it - this an awful situation.

How old is your sister?
What if your mum lives until she's 90? If your sister is say 20, she wouldn't get the house until she was 50 at which point she may have her own family home. Or is your mum planning on giving it her before she dies?

Dozer Tue 13-Nov-12 09:03:46

You may be able to set it aside and maintain OK relationships with your DM and DSis, but if your brother can't or won't that's his choice, best to stay out of it.

Dozer Tue 13-Nov-12 09:05:07

Not sure of the legalities, but if the DM wants to be sure one child gets the house, and money not used for care, she might sign it over while still alive.

bamboobutton Tue 13-Nov-12 09:05:33

as others have said - how is your non working sister going to pay the, probably huge, inheritance tax on this house?

Bogeyface Tue 13-Nov-12 09:06:00

How old is your sister btw? She sounds incredibly immature. "Just" moving back in may not be an option, as has been explained above. Her bills will go through the roof and her inheritance may mean that she doesnt have the money to pay them if her benefits are stopped, assuming your mum doesnt also have a fat insurance policy that will go to her as well.

You really do need to sit down with your mum and go through the fine detail of this, as she doesnt seem to have considered the fact of inheritance tax, benefit entitlement, care home fees etc. And thats leaving aside the crashing unfairness of her plan.

DontmindifIdo Tue 13-Nov-12 09:06:01

Your mum is only 60, and her youngest child is still sharing this house. Your mum could quite easily live another 30 years, have you sat her down and explained the expectation that your DSis will get this particular house (not just the estate) means she's forcing herself to live in this same house for possibly 30+ years, maintain it, and live in it alone when it's too big for her. Will she be able to run it on a pension? Point out that many older people go from large houses to a care home when actually if they'd gone into a smaller flat without stairs they could easily have coped for longer in the community.

Also ask her if she's also going to be leaving enough money to cover the inheritance tax otherwise Dsis will find she has to sell the house anyway, or at least have a mortgage on it, and all this will be at the expense of her relationship with her son, who of course will see this as a slight.

Point out if Dsis is really waiting to inherit the house before she starts a family has anyone pointed out to her that your mum might live another 30 years and it be too late by the time she inherits it to have DCs. That her DP could get a good job and be able to provide for his family.

Surely the most pratical thing for your mum to do is to think about selling the house once your Dsis has moved out now, buying herself a small flat that would suit her for her old age and if she wants to gift some of the money to her DCs now to help your Dsis and DBro with the deposits for a house you're prepared to step back and allow your "share" to be shared between the other two.

It's your mother that has created this situation, not your brother

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 09:08:27

I just want a quiet life and the 3 of us to all get on as when our parents ARE actually gone it will be such a shame for everybody to be arguing.

That's not something you can control.

Bogeyface Tue 13-Nov-12 09:08:48

Oh and signing it over while she is still alive may not work. There are rules in place to stop people doing that if the government believe that it was to avoid paying care fees, especially if the DC concerned has moved out of the family home.

lamename Tue 13-Nov-12 09:09:42

I would make it clear to your mum that she has to rely now on care from the favourite child, and said favourite's current boyfriend. That is only fair. It might make Mommy Dearest think again, to boot.

I'm with your brother - I suspect he can spot stirring a mile off, and he can't have failed to notice the toxic favouritism going on.

ValentineWiggins Tue 13-Nov-12 09:10:33

There's a couple of things here that jump out. The first is that you/your brother have no legal right to anything - so he wouldn't be able to go to court when your DM dies and claim on the estate. He's not currently a dependant of your DM and that's all that counts. But your DSis IS. So if your DM did divide things 3 ways a lawyer could go to court and say that she has an expectation to be supported by the estate the same way as she is currently (ie housed and not have to work). But I don't think they could argue it has to be in the family home.

So the way it stands is (I am not a lawyer tho) that if 1/3 of estate won't buy her a property and enough income to not have to work then she could potentially overturn any will that didn't leave her enough to carry on as she is doing now anyway. It's about dependency.

This is not a comment on what she might do - I don't know her or the rest of you...but I think it is possible.

The best thing you can do is sit down with your DM and ask what she is trying to do. Is she trying to ensure your DSis is housed/supported? If so, can you make her think about whether it has to be in the family house? Because if nothing else if she gets all of that and then ends up single, neither you nor your DB are likely to be helping her when her illness is a problem...

Inheritances (particularly with favouritism) bring out the worst in people - if you can live without the money (and with the emotional fallout of not getting anything) then the best thing you can do for YOU is to stay out of it. Refuse to talk to your brother about it at all.

Good luck and stay strong!

oohlaalaa Tue 13-Nov-12 09:11:18

He that waits for a dead man's shoes may long go barefoot.

My Grandad always looked forward to his rich spinster great aunt's inheritance. She lived to 98 Grandad, my Grandad died at 70. He never did get to enjoy an inheritance, as she outlived him.

I'd keep out of any arguments, your mum's will could change a dozen times yet.

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 09:12:01

sister is 25.

Has always been the favourite and I have learnt (horribly)from past ex not to argue with her.

It is in the interest of my own mental health to just let it go.dh not happy though he has a v hard physical job and is unwell he says the time will come one day when he cant work and I am wrong to just leave this situation but I cant argue my sister has been realy unwell sometimes.

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 09:12:11

I want to know how the dsis proposes to run the house (council tax, utilities etc) with no money. As I think her benefits would be reduced/stopped (not dla) should she have a a house worth a couple of hundred grand with no mortgage?

DontmindifIdo Tue 13-Nov-12 09:12:21

oh and raise the care home question - my Grandmother recently died, she had lived with my parents for 6 years then 7 in a care home, at the time she moved in with my parents they sold her large 3 bed house in a 'posh' area and she also had signficiant savings - on her death there was £21k left. It took just 7 years to eat through it all, if she'd had to go in a care home rather spend the first 6 years living with my parents, it'd have all gone a lot sooner.

Which of her DCs does she think will take her in and be able to care for her in her old age? Your Dsis might want to, but if she's not able to hold down a job because of her illness, she couldn't care for an elderly person, if your mother pursits in this plan she'll have alienated your Dbro so there's no way she can rely on him to take her in, if she's expecting you too, she'll have to accept you won't do it if you're also going to be cut out of the will.

Say it now, let her plan her old age. Her house is her major asset. She can't assume she won't need to use it.

ValentineWiggins Tue 13-Nov-12 09:13:20

Oh and it might be worth suggesting to your mum that rather than leaving it all to DSis it goes into trust for all 3 of you with the proviso that it can't be sold against DSis's wishes. Then at least however many years down the line when DSis dies/moves you will have 1/3 of the house? It might not help you but it might become an inheritance for your kids instead? Not a perfect solution but better than her getting it all? And it would almost certainly stop any future XP of hers getting it!

valiumredhead Tue 13-Nov-12 09:15:05

How long does your sister think she will be fertile for if she is 25 and you mum is only 60? confused Parents could live for another 40 years!

BeatTheClock Tue 13-Nov-12 09:15:26

I agree with your brother. It should be a 3 way share.

Your mother has lit the touchpaper on this one and I think she is responsible for the bad feeling.

ratspeaker Tue 13-Nov-12 09:15:35

Ultimately it doesn't really matter what people on this thread think is fair or just it is up to your parents what they do with the property.
Does they have other assets and how are they to be divided?
They need to get legal advise and have a will.

There are many things that can happen between now and when your parents die.
What if one dies before the other then the survivor remarries?
What if they decide to sell up and live in the sun?
Remortgage then spend everything on toyboys/chocolate/model railways/bread and milk/heating.

Bogeyface Tue 13-Nov-12 09:16:04

Has she made the will yet or is this currently just her plan?

Could well be that a solicitor would point out the (rather large) flaws in this wonderful plan hmm

TakeMyEyesButNotTheGoat Tue 13-Nov-12 09:16:19

I feel sorry for you and your brother OP.

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 09:17:24

also the likely hood is that she will be deemed fit to work under the new plans.
Its impossible to say a person with her condition will never work. Even severe cases can be brought under control. It just takes the correct medications, levels and combination. It can take a while but the expectation is that they will eventually.

I would be interested to know what medication she is on for it. Tried was can increase the amount of sieziures so I am surprised she is on medication that makes her so tired.
Perhaps she should go back yo the go and request a review of meds.

I think your brother is pissed off because you mum is again telling him that his sister and her problems are more important than his. Therefore she cares more.
I don't think it is just about him wanting a house. Its about what her disinheriting him means and the subtext.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Tue 13-Nov-12 09:17:57

My nieces cousin died from epilepsy when she was 18.

That aside, get your mum to set up a proper will. In many ways, she is doing your brother a favour - she is letting him know that HE is responsible for his life and his debts, and if I was his mum I might do the same, as no way would I let the family home be divided just so that one child should pay his creditors or fritter it away. Dont be surprised if you all three inherit, if you have all shown that you can handle money and be responsible in your lives, rather than rely on your parents death to sort you out. Your brother is being a greedy arse.

Stop fretting and tell your brother to stop talking to you about it, but work and clear his debts and stop thinking that your parents passing will be the answer to his prayers.

Floggingmolly Tue 13-Nov-12 09:17:58

Why can't your sister work? It sounds like she's been mollycoddled all her life - I have some family members with epilepsy; it's easily controlled and they live normal, productive lives.
If your sister is planning a family, she's hardly incapacitated, is she?
Your brother has a valid point.

Iheardthatpardon Tue 13-Nov-12 09:20:58

It is your Mum's house/money and while it is unfair, it is up to her who inherits. Personally though, as a parent, I would want to treat my children equally and not cause friction or bad feeling after my death.

Another thing you may need to consider is that should your sister pass away and has not made a specific provision, her husband could end up with the house. Has your mother considered this possibility? (Sorry don't mean to be upsetting, just looking at all scenarios).

What might be more acceptable is that your sister gets a life interest in the house, ie can stay there rent free and when she passes, the house is sold to benefit any surviving children and grandchildren? That way your sister has a roof over her head if she needs it but you or your children will eventually benefit (along with sister's and brother's children)

Hope your mother and sister have also thought about how the house will be maintained - a big house will be expensive to run and maintain and if your sister is not able to work, this may become a problem.

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 09:21:41

No other assests probably just a very small amount of savings so the house is all there is.

I have no money but feel I can live without any share of the house as the grief it will cause would be unbearable. I would rather lead a life with nothing than benefit from the house being sold then be on the recieving end of my very angry sister. I do also feel sorry for her she has gone through some really bad things and been so unwell sometimes.

Mintyy Tue 13-Nov-12 09:23:03

This is ridiculous! Your mum is only 60? What you should all be hoping for is that she lives at least another 20 years and an awful lot can change in that time.

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 09:24:49

I know mintyy I HATE thinking about a time when both my parents are dead sad

lamename Tue 13-Nov-12 09:26:18

I wouldn't advise staying out of this row just because you are frightened of your DSIS (I get the feeling she can be a little bit, er, pouty when crossed.)

Thanks to her and DM, you and your bro have got nothing to lose by having a frank conversation. She may be the favourite, but she'll get a rude shock when you point out that she and her partner will have to do all the caring from now on, and if DM ends up in care she won't even see the house after all that. Go for it - really.

I know someone this happened to - an couple in their late 60s announced the bequest of their family home, now worth over a million, to the favourite child, their son. Other child got zero. Anyway, the father, who was already pretty daft, went senile-with-drink at 70 and currently is in a home at 1k a week. There will be nothing left, as he's in fine physical health and now only 75 - his father lived to 95. The greedy child is dumped looking after a fretful old woman (mother) and maintaining a house with a charge on it from the council. The rejected child is sitting pretty.

MrsBucketxx Tue 13-Nov-12 09:26:20

you dsis sounds a bit of a spoilt brat tbh.

could you not sit all of you together over a cuppa and talk about it. or just your sister and make her see what she is doing all of you.

failing that, if i was your brother i would tell them it wont be an easy ride for any of them if they go through with this and contest it in court.

your sister sounds very immature and not in touch with the reality of it all.

DontmindifIdo Tue 13-Nov-12 09:26:22

Also think about the whole "sister raising children in that house" isn't going to happen - a) she's got epilepsy, and bad enough that she can't work, the chances of her getting and staying pregnant aren't good, and b) her fertility will probably be long gone by the time your mum dies and c) she won't be able to pay the inheritance tax or run a large home.

The only way that will happen is if your dsis is planning on moving back in with your mum once she's pregnant. That's a very real possibly and a lot of this might be more about trying to stop your mum from selling now.

Loveweekends10 Tue 13-Nov-12 09:27:50

I think you are all being a little naive. My mum had a house but then developed Parkinson's disease and dementia. The nursing home fees were £950 per week! Work out the maths then how you are going to pay for that unless she sells her house.
Or are you all planning to care for her day and night and not incur fees?
Believe me when I say you are arguing over something that may never exist.

MrsBucketxx Tue 13-Nov-12 09:29:02

yes i have a freind who has miscarried several times due to here medication. its really sad. treat the epilepsy or look after your unborn its abhard amd dangerous choice

yoir sister is in la la land

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 09:33:16

I would help to look after my mum when she is old. It is not about the house or the money I detest having to have the conversations with my sister and brother now YEARS before anything could happen.

I just dont know what to say anymore I hate having to take sides which I suppose I am doing by accepting that my sister will get everything, I care about my brother too and I feel guilty. They couldnt even divide it between the 2 of them it seems to be all or nothing.

AndBingoWasHisNameOh Tue 13-Nov-12 09:33:27

Your sister sounds desperately entitled and sounds like she uses her health and directed anger to bully people (particularly you) into getting her own way. I can very much see your brother’s POV here.

Namechangeabc Tue 13-Nov-12 09:33:27

We've been through this, though without the argument. My DSis will get everything when our parents die. We have a house, and DSis health means she won't be able to get on the housing ladder otherwise. So we're in the position we can all agree about this. DSis health means she will never have children and our DCs will inherit from her. (There may not be anything to inherit by then, of course! But still, it doesn't feel as though "our" inheritance is completely gone.)

Our Dparents needed legal advice with their Will because it is complicated: Firstly, if DSis married, her DH would be entitled to half; not something our Dparents want as they're trying to protect DSis.
Secondly, there's the whole care home costs issue.
Inheritance tax isn't an issue with us, but that might be a third issue.

Your mother really needs to take a long, hard look at this.

If your sis has always been the favourite one, I can see how something like this is going to trigger such a reaction in your bro.

My grandparents are still with us (87 and 93). Two of their children (my mum and my uncle) live in the same small town. The third (my auntie) lives 300 miles away. My mum (and dad) are constantly going round, checking up on them, doing things for them round the house, getting shopping - anything they need. They are happy to do so. My uncle does very little and occasionally my mum pesters him to do something. My auntie does nothing, has been known to come down and visit in-laws and go back without visiting my grandparents. It has caused friction, because her attitude is always "well, X and & Y are there, I don't need to do anything".

There probably won't be anything to inherit. My mum won't complain if what is left is split three ways although I could understand if she did.

Babyroobs Tue 13-Nov-12 09:35:11

I think your mum is being very unfair to be honest. If your sister has a partner who is working and presumably your siter will be entitled to disabled benefits , DLA etc then leaving her a third of the house should be more than enough for them to put a deposit down on a smalller house of their own wothout leaving you and your brother out. I can completely understand your brother's anger it seems very unfair. Like others have said there may be no inheritance if your mum has care needs later in life, the house proceeds can be used up in a short number of years . It's not worth fighting over.

StanleyLambchop Tue 13-Nov-12 09:35:21

Can I ask where your dad is in all of this? You say they are divorced, and your Mum lives in the family home. Does he still own a share in it? Does he have property himself that he is planning to leave to his children? Perhaps you should talk to him about your mothers plans, if he still has an interest in the house.

IMO your DB INBU. I have a child with epilepsy, I fully expect her to lead a normal life and despite the siezures we encourage an attitude of just getting on with things- there are very few things that I would prevent her from doing because of her epilepsy. So I don't understand why your sister cannot get a job. I fully understand why she may not want to get a job, but that is a different matter.

BTW, if my child turned out to have such severe epilepsy that as an adult she could not work, I would make financial provision for her, but not at the expense of my other child. They will get the same. I think your Mum has mollycoddled your DSis to the extent that her epilepsy is an excuse to have everything handed to her on a plate, and that is not healthy, to be quite honest. As someone upthread said, if she is planning to have a family, she does not believe that her condition is so bad as to risk her life for a complicated pregnancy. Many women will epilepsy have a family with no problem, but equally many people with epilepsy work too. It seems your sis is playing up the severity of her condition when it suits her. I think your Mum has created this situation, she needs to take a good hard look at the way her family is heading. It could be a long and lonely old age for her otherwise.

diddl Tue 13-Nov-12 09:37:01

Well, going back to the OP-I can understand your Mum not wanting to sell the house so that your brother can get himself out of debt.

But I do think she is taking on far too much by trying to give your sister the house she wants hmm and a work free existence!

sudaname Tue 13-Nov-12 09:40:32

Oh god ! Wills and Relatives eh!

Similiar situation in our family. My mum and dad (v.elderly and dad terminally ill now) originally left their house all to our eldest brother who never left home nor had a family of his own. They did it because otherwise he would have been homeless when they died/went into care whatever and also because he looked after them a lot more than us,very generously contributed to bills,maintenance of house, took them shopping, drove them everywhere etc etc.
i personally thought that was fair enough, we all had our own houses and lives and families etc. but my youngest sister was livid. Regularly went hysterical at our parents about it.
Here's the twist ! Our eldest Dbro very sadly predeceased our parents and asked me to look after mum and dad when he was very poorly and obviously not going to get better. l gave up work etc and have dedicated last five years to doing so. Upon my brothers death my parents amended their will and l replaced my late brother in it as the only beneficiary,with my three siblings only benefitting (equal split between them) if l predecease my parents.

My parents obviously have a policy of leaving to the eldest and in return for looking after them <shrugs>.

Dsis is hysterical once again. But interestingly enough does not lift a finger to help out with our parents. Doesnt want to know, only cares about the money. If she did - as my other sister and brother have whenever work/families allow, l would be giving her a cut of the house if/when l inherit it as l am going to do with them.

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 09:42:31

my dad has a small share in the house that will go to my mum when he dies, he lives miles away now and we rarely see him. He recently got over cancer he is 76

He was meant to get his share when my sister left full time education but as she was by thyen diagnosed he didnt force the sale of the house also I was also living there with 2 of my dcs at the time (untill i argued with my sister and we got thrown out and locks were changed at her say so) THAT is why I cannot argue with anybody over this I just cannot be in this situation it makes me ill.

TheCraicDealer Tue 13-Nov-12 09:44:03

Could your DB be slightly concerned about the money, but also pissed off at your DSis being favoured yet again? Although in your OP you paint your brother to be unreasonable, as you’ve posted more it seems like your DSis is actually pretty feckless, grabbing (”wants” to raise her children in the large house she was brought up in, etc.) and almost seems to be imagining that this could be happening within the next few years even though your Mum is only 60 and in good health.

Your DB is not being unreasonable here, it’s almost as if he’s pushing for some acknowledgement that he and his family are as important as DSis’. You sound like you’ve admitted defeat.

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 09:46:11

I have admitted defeat. BUT I know my mum loves us all just in different ways, I am ok with that. Harder for DB though I think

MrsBucketxx Tue 13-Nov-12 09:46:20

your sister sound like a nasty person.

she has already shown her true colours.

diddl Tue 13-Nov-12 09:48:48

Blimey-is everyone scared of your sister?

Is this childhood home the only house that she can possible live in because of her epilepsy?

Has it been adapted for her in some way?

sudaname Tue 13-Nov-12 09:49:28

I hope your mum lives to be 100 - and the last 10 years in a very expensive care home. [evil]

That would be karma at it's best for your sister.

MrsBucketxx Tue 13-Nov-12 09:50:58

or a massive tax bill.

valiumredhead Tue 13-Nov-12 09:52:16

The tax bill won't be that much unless the house is worth a fortune and even then not that much as it will be divided between your mum and dad and seen as separate.

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 09:52:21

Sometimes I wonder though if it is the epilepsy or medication making her act a certain way as she can also be really lovely it just changes so often you never know what to expect with her .

squeakytoy Tue 13-Nov-12 09:52:36

Reading this, it makes me almost grateful that I was an only child. When my parents died it did make things a lot more straightforwards.

I dont think your brother is being unreasonable OP. I can see his point.

didldidi Tue 13-Nov-12 09:52:45

She doesnt like unfamiliar places and only wants to eventually live/raise a family in the house she grew up in. this isn't just epilepsy is it?
It also sounds like she hasn't always had it. Has something happened to her to cause the epilepsy? something else which makes it hard for her to work?

and if she moves out with her boyfriend as planned - surely she'll no longer be a dependent of your mother?

ioness Tue 13-Nov-12 09:53:16

I think if a will is unfair, it's asking for trouble.

There's really no reason why your dm couldn't split the inheritance three ways and your sister use her proportion as a deposit on a flat or something.

She's going to end up dividing your family by doing this. It's not fair on you or your brother.

My gm had a similar situation. She divided the estate into four parts and gave one brother (who was disabled) two shares. Nobody had a problem with this. Although he does work, he's unable to do very lucrative jobs, whereas the other two siblings had good jobs.

squeakytoy Tue 13-Nov-12 09:53:49

Depends on the area Valium. In London and surrounding areas a 3 bed house is almost always worth more than the inheritance tax threshold.

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 09:54:30

She started having fits at 14, nothing before then nobody knows what caused it.

foslady Tue 13-Nov-12 09:55:43

Know this situation well - toxic relative got left the lot.

She's a very lonely person now, especially after all the lies she spread

ChocHobNob Tue 13-Nov-12 10:00:16

From reading everything you have said OP, your Mum is being unreasonable.

She apparently wants to leave the house to your sister so she has a home and is safe due to her illness ... But that home could be anywhere. The money from the sale of the house can be split 3 ways and she can put it towards a house. It appears your Mother is actually using her illness as an excuse to leave the house to her because your sister WANTS to bring up her children in her family home. For that, your sister is being unreasonable. If she wants the house, then she should have to find a way of keeping it but paying you and your brother your share of the money so that the children are all treated equally.

Your sister wants to keep the house to herself and is happy for you and your brother to go without.

Your brother on the other hand, wants to fight for his and YOUR share of the family home. He doesn't want the money all to himself.

It's not surprising your brother is upset by this if your sister has been favourite all of your lives and will continue to be so after your parents have passed away.

But if you do not want to get involved (because ultimately, it is up to your Mum what she does) don't get involved. Tell them you don't want to talk about it and don't let anyone involve you in any conversations over it. But you will just have to accept that this is going to cause a rift in family relations.

Loveweekends10 Tue 13-Nov-12 10:01:51

My friend is epileptic. She has constant fits yet is a respiratory nurse specialist and earns a great wage. In fact I know quite a few people with epilepsy who just get on with their lives despite frequent fits.
It sounds more like she has been pampered and protected and turned into an invalid. Probably by your parents.
She needs her butt kicking if you ask me.

Floggingmolly Tue 13-Nov-12 10:02:13

And I doubt the Benefits Office would be too happy to be asked to cover it, Valium grin. Seriously, how would she find the money?

sleepyhead Tue 13-Nov-12 10:02:13

I'm worried for the welfare of your mum in her old age tbh. What is she going to have to go without to make sure your sister gets this inheritance?

Will she refuse to downsize and rattle around a too-big house that's falling apart around her ears (if she doesn't have much in savings to maintain it then it just takes one bad winter..)?

Will she refuse to move into sheltered housing or pay carers or eat properly or heat the place properly just to maintain her assets for you sister's sake?

Bear in mind that your mum may well be being bullied by your sister too and it may get worse as she gets older and more infirm.

DeWe Tue 13-Nov-12 10:02:22

Normally on these I think the complainers are being very entitled and grasping. But on this occasion, I think he's right.

If you both had your own houses and she was on the list for housing, it might be reasonable, if still unfair division wise.
But when none of you own your own houses it is't fair.

Also any money your dm has saved may well end up going on death duties for your dsis to keep the house, so you and db will get nothing-and may even end up paying some money for her.

my sister has stated she wants the house she grew up in-will never sell it she wants to move straight back in and then have a family. her and dp are currently waiting for a 1 bed council flat which they will give up when my mums house becomes available.

She sounds at best thoughtless, and very grasping. Has she been "working" on your dm to get this or was it your dm's thought out of the blue? Because it sounds to me she's been working on this for some time.

Cantbelieveitsnotbutter Tue 13-Nov-12 10:02:30

If it canbe split and still enable her a home just smaller then I can't see your mums argument. But it's her money she can do what she wants, although I do think its asking for trouble with an unfair will. I don't think it's your mum that's out of order I think it's your sis. She's clearly being very selfish not realising how the money could also benefit your children and your brothers.

There is one way round the inheritance tax / care home problem, not sure you'd want to share it though. The house goes in her name now, assuming your mum lives for 7 years they can't touch it.

ChocHobNob Tue 13-Nov-12 10:03:34

Perhaps your Mother feels pressurised into leaving the house to your sister because she too is frightened of the repercussions if your sister doesn't get her own way

I think your mother is making a bad decision. At least she has been honest about it tho. I'm afraid if I were you or your brother I would discuss with her how hurtful it was and then if she didn't accept it, I would cut her out of my life.

DontmindifIdo Tue 13-Nov-12 10:04:26

OP - you don't have to decide you won't care for your mum in her old age, but I'd plant that seed now, she's being unfair, she can't expect you all to be fair to her. Also, once your sister has moved out of the house, her new flat will be a familiar surroundings, she might not be able to see herself living anywhere else now, but once she's done it, then it'll be easier.

I'd also encourage your dad to force the sale once your Dsis has moved out, not for his own sake, but for your mums, if she's able to continue living there, she'll back herself into a corner and feel she has no choice but continue to live there regardless of what would be in the best interest for herself as she ages, or her DCs (I really think it would be better for yoru sister to have your mum sell the house now and be able to help her get the deposit for a small house of her own with her DP, possibly in a few years time, that'll give her her own 'family home' when she's still young enough to have a family - and speaking as someone who knows a lot of people with the same condition as your dsis, the earlier she starts a family the better, she's got a lot less time for a healthy baby than other woman her age).

pictish Tue 13-Nov-12 10:04:33

I think your sister and your parents are being unreasonable.
"I want" shouldn't get, and I understand your brother's resentment entirely.

Your sister sounds very entitled. There's you, with four kids, while she has none - and yet she reckons she's the one entitled to the family home just because she wants it?

I think your parents are blind and horribly unfair.

Paiviaso Tue 13-Nov-12 10:07:04

It is up to your parents who they leave their house to, but they are being very unfair to their other two children.

Are your parents expected to die soon? Sorry for the question, but you said your sister will only consider having a family in the family home, but what if your parents live on all through her fertile years and then some? Surely she will settle somewhere else.

I don't think your parents are doing much for family relations.

fatcuntroller Tue 13-Nov-12 10:07:30

To me it seems so pointless to be falling out over this now. Your sister could easily be well into her 50s by the time your mum dies!

I don't understand this discussion over wills before anyone is terminally ill/has died. My parents are in their early 60s and I haven't a clue what's in their wills.

I do feel for you though...a family divide is very stressful. I also think there's a lot more to it than epilspsy.

StanleyLambchop Tue 13-Nov-12 10:08:07

I am not getting the 'must live in familiar surrounding' argument, especially if she is about to move out and live with her partner anyway! That is not a trait of epilepsy, more like something your sister says to get her own way.

I cannot believe that your mother just sat back and let you sis throw you out of the house, yet you still believe that she loves you all the same!

I think it would be worth your brother talking to your dad, he still has some control in this situation as he has an interest in the house. You say he did not push for the sale of the family home to release his interest as he did not want to make your sis homeless. Now she is moving out to live with her partner is it not time to review that situation?

senua Tue 13-Nov-12 10:09:09

Would it be an idea to play a waiting game?
Will the relationship between Dmum and Dsis change when she moves out. If Dmum can see that Dsis is not quite so helpless, will she feel less need to mollycoddle?

I can understand that you don't want to get involved in sibling wars and fight on your own behalf but don't you want to fight for your DCs' sakes. Can you explain to your Dmum that they have needs too.

catsmother Tue 13-Nov-12 10:09:16

However much you discuss the legalities, the potential practical pitfalls, timescales and so on, buried underneath all of that is the emotional impact of such a gesture. I do feel very sorry for both you and your brother OP and admire you for somehow having come to terms with the fact that your sister has long been the favoured child. Your mum's current plan obviously confirms how she feels differently about your sister and I suspect it's possibly dragged up a lot of very deep set and unpleasant feelings for your brother. I'm sure that just like you he understands your sister has particular problems making her life harder than it might otherwise be but that doesn't automatically mean you or he are free from problems either, as you've alluded to. As so many others have already said, there shouldn't have to be this all or nothing plan - which your sister may well be incapable of realising in any case (for practical or financial reasons) and I'm sure your brother wouldn't be so angry - which I'm sure (in the circumstances described) comes from hurt as opposed to pure jealousy - if your mum had researched the issue more thoroughly and objectively, with a view to hopefully (as who can predict the future) providing additional support for your sister but not ignoring you and your brother completely. It's pretty devastating to feel a sibling is loved more than you are and while no-one wishes your mum dead (though I can't speak for your sister who seems to have it all planned out!) the hard cold fact is that one day everyone goes, and if there was anything left to inherit at that time, it's not entirely unreasonable to hope that as a child, your parent would want you to benefit. Your brother may well feel, even if subconsciously, that were she to leave something to him it would be a reassurance that she did "love him after all" if you see what I mean ? I do understand that it must be horrible for you OP to feel you have to talk about this now and can quite see why you fear a big family rift over the next couple of decades or so, but maybe, it would be better to have this all out now - and perhaps sorted to some extent ? - even if it means being very frank, and talking about stuff which is difficult - rather than live with a simmering resentment for goodness knows how long.

I don't know how much of this has been directly discussed with your mum or whether bits and bobs of info has trickled down indirectly with your sister perhaps "gloating" to an extent about this big house she's "going to get" ? If it hasn't come straight from your mum then maybe you and your brother need to clear the air with her and confess how upset it's made you. I know he voices it more but it seems to me you're hurt too - but resigned. Maybe your mum has the best of intentions but hasn't thought through the pitfalls like inheritance tax, or what would happen to the property if your sister marries and then dies before her husband ? Maybe she hasn't considered that your sister might not be able to afford the upkeep of a big house ? And maybe .... she simply hasn't thought how rejected this plan has made the two of you feel. If she knew - for sure - she might think again about how best to protect your sister, but not at the complete expense of her other children.

I wonder .... is there any other family member, one step removed, who had nothing obvious to gain, who might share some of your concerns and feelings (and understand all the various points raised in this thread) who might be prepared to raise the issue in a careful and tactful way. It would have to be someone with their head screwed on, who's trustworthy and discreet - am thinking maybe one of your mum's siblings if she has any - an aunt or uncle of yours whose opinion she'd trust and value. Is there anyone like that you could confide in who might be willing to step in as peacemaker ?

diddl Tue 13-Nov-12 10:09:48

Thing is, when sister moves out, then all three siblings have their own homes.

No one "needs" the family home.

I agree that perhaps father needs to ask for his share-why should he be comfortable in his old age?

I really feel enraged on you and your brothers behalf. Your children and his children in your mums mind do not deserve the same security that your sisters unborn children do. It's madness.

Dozer Tue 13-Nov-12 10:11:56

If I were your dad, would be having strong words with ex-wife and DD!

SlightlySuperiorPeasant Tue 13-Nov-12 10:18:36

Gosh, I can see why some people leave everything to the cats!

I think your DM's plan is very unfair and I can't imagine what she is thinking by announcing all of this now and causing such upset. If you and your brother were well settled with your own homes and a comfortable income I could see the logic but that doesn't seem to be the case. How sad.

I think you have the right idea though - stay well out of it and live your own life. Your DBro and DSis seem to be living their lives based on a very shaky idea of what will happen when your parents die. Nice confused

Popumpkin Tue 13-Nov-12 10:19:12

As Mintyy said, your mum is 60 and in good health. So much can change over the course of the next 20 years or so that I really don't think you need to spend time worrying about this now.

Speaking as someone who's mum has very recently passed away and left a hard-to-accept bequest in her will (totally different circumstances but still a sizeable share of the home myself & my siblings grew up in), I would actually say that you are doing the best thing for your own sanity to accept your mum's decision and get on with living your own life.

No, it doesn't sound fair & yes I can understand why your DB feels the way he does. However, it is your mum's decision to make and just so much can happen between now & her eventual passing to change things. For example, it is entirely possible that your DSis may not outlive your DM or that the house may have to be sold to fund sheltered accommodation or a care home as your mum's own needs change over the years.

Even if this does happen & your DSis does eventually get the entirety of the house she may not be able to keep it. You say your mum has no other savings so how will the funeral be funded? Likewise any debts your mum may leave? These will all have to be paid out of the estate if neither yourself nor your DB are in a position to cover the cost (or even if you are you may not want to). The house would have to be sold.

Please try not to worry or let this eat away at you. Your DM may also change her mind about her will as the years go by, mine certainly did!

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 10:19:45

What does your dad say?

As it is the family home, presumably he has paid toward the mortgage. Doesn't that entitle him to something.

senua Tue 13-Nov-12 10:21:41

You could also mention to Dmum the consequences of her actions: this is likely to cause a huge rift so that Dsis is likely to be left with money but no family. There will be no no back-up; family support will die when Dmum does. Is this what she wants?

DownTheRabidHole Tue 13-Nov-12 10:23:21

I don't like strangers or new places but I really like the look of Blenheim Palace, I expect it on a plate ta.

Your sister and your mum are beign VU. No wonder your brother is furious.

Stop being such a doormat.

You probably won't change anything but you deserve a rant tbh - sounds like your mum/sis have ignored your wishes/needs all your life.

Your sisters quite frankly is having a laugh - " oooh I'm too ill to work" , but not too ill to run a big house, get married and have a bunch of kids.

Dozer Tue 13-Nov-12 10:24:18

No wonder you're stressed, is v difficult situation, but you can't expect your brother - and your DH - to handle it in the same way as you. This isn't his fault, it's your mother's and sister's. You seem scared of both your DM and sister, so are passive in response to their actions and continue being nice to them. sad

sleepyhead Tue 13-Nov-12 10:24:54

Actually, I don't think this is a conversation you can have with your mum while your sister is still in the house. It would put her under too much pressure when she's having to live with your sister's moods and demands on a daily basis.

She may feel differently when your sister is settled out of the family home and some of the responsibility is lifted from her.

pictish Tue 13-Nov-12 10:31:00

I agree. I think this is a subject that should be raised after your sister has left home and is living independently. I don't think your parents can see the wood for the trees at the moment.

She needs to leave for them to realise she does fine away from the family home, and has no more entitlement to it and you and your brother.

I am of the belief that a three way equal split is ALL that is acceptable. Ever.

Your parents are being ridiculous.

pictish Tue 13-Nov-12 10:31:46

than you and your brother

RubyrooUK Tue 13-Nov-12 10:36:06

I think your mum needs to tackle this issue head on with all her children.

Both my parents/in-laws have faced situations where after their parents' death, there is perceived favouritism of one sibling. This has led on both sides to resentment and people who should support each other ending up angry.

Wills are emotional issues. Your mum needs to take into account that many factors may change before she dies. You and your DH may become more unwell; your brother may become more unwell; and your sister may improve. Splitting the house three ways is the only way that she can do her best against the uncertainty of life.

WearingGreen Tue 13-Nov-12 10:37:23

I think your mum is being unfair and your sister is childish and unrealistic.

I can understand your mum wanting to try and level the playing field a bit on account of your dsis's compromised earning potential but that isn't what she is doing. She is providing your dsis with a home and a lifestyle that would be out of her reach if she wasn't the favourite diagnosed with epilepsy.

flowery Tue 13-Nov-12 10:40:33

Wouldn't occur to me to presume to try and influence my parents in terms of what they decide to do in terms of wills.

I would make sure they were taking proper advice from a specialist solicitor who would no doubt advise them of all the issues people are raising here, and other than that I would stay out of it and carry on, especially if as in the OPs situation, it's not remotely expected to be an imminent issue.

fuzzpig Tue 13-Nov-12 11:03:17

What a nightmare. I'm with your brother on this, and I think you are far too nice for your own (and your children's) good. What condition do they have? Don't they deserve support too?

I don't understand why your sister is waiting until your mum dies to start a family hmm

AmberLeaf Tue 13-Nov-12 11:04:09

I don't own my own home and probably won't ever BUT if I did, it is without doubt that it would be left solely to my youngest child who has high functioning autism.

His brothers are able and capable and will be able to make their own way in the world, he quite probably won't.

I can sort of see your brothers point, but at the same time I think he looks grabby and jealous.

Re epilepsy, some people are more affected by it than others. so its pointless saying 'someone I know has it and they work full time' etc

diddl Tue 13-Nov-12 11:07:28

"I don't understand why your sister is waiting until your mum dies to start a family"

Doesn´t make sense to me either.

In fact I´m also wondering why sister is moving out & her partner isn´t just moving in.

digerd Tue 13-Nov-12 11:14:16

I think the heir is responsible for paying the funeral costs, is in other EU, countries, but then all the blood -line have the right to their share in law in those countries, just not in the english speaking countries.

BreconBeBuggered Tue 13-Nov-12 11:14:41

Will your sister throw a hissy fit if your mother, at only 60, decides to remarry and puts the whole inheritance malarkey in jeopardy? Seems as if you're the only one who isn't standing like a vulture over your perfectly healthy mother and waiting for her to leave the juicy carcase behind. I do feel for your brother as this is an emotional kick in the teeth, but he has a pretty macabre approach to financial planning.

Namechangeabc Tue 13-Nov-12 11:17:25

Has your mother actually made a will? I think that if she goes to a solicitor to have such a will drawn up, s/he will point out the potential pitfalls.

Cahoots Tue 13-Nov-12 11:20:29

I can really relate to you with this problem. Sometimes you have to let things go even if it is a painful and unfair situation. I have had to do this myself.

I have two siblings who have always leached off my parents. I used to work weekends and some evenings when I was at school while they leached. I studied hard, got a degree, worked ALL my holidays, I lived in grotty bedsits etc. etc. All the while my siblings slobbed around living at home on the dole. They could even manage 'work experience schemes' angry My parents have continued to 'help' them and even helped them set up a buisness. Largely thanks to my parents help they now work and have their own homes. Both also did ok in the property boom.
These days they are both ok financially, not rich but ok. They have holidays and two cars. One parent can stay at home with the DC's etc. I have been very fortunate and through mine and my DH's hard work we are very comfortably off. I think my DF is thinking of leaving his estate to my siblings as they 'need' it more than me. This pisses me off immensely. sad I don't need the money but that's not the point. I deal with it by not dealing with it confused. I ignore it and won't discuss it with anyone. Maybe my DC's will? I know if my DF dies and doesn't split his inheritence three ways I will be hurt but I wont do anything about it. It sucks but I will suck it up.

.....and breathe

oohlaalaa Tue 13-Nov-12 11:21:08

I was just thinking about your predicament, when it occured to me that your mum is the same age as mine. I've not concerned myself with inheritance, as always assumed it could easily be 30 + years off, and anything can happen in that time.

I shouldn't concern yourself too much with it.

fuzzpig Tue 13-Nov-12 11:22:05

That's what I was thinking too diddl - if OP has lived there with 2 DCs in the past presumably it's not beyond the realms of possibility for DP to move in and for them to even start a family sooner and, since she is unwell, have her mum help out. Not that I'm saying that's a great idea, but I don't get why sister isn't planning that so she doesn't have to wait until she is possibly too old to have babies confused

PanickingIdiot Tue 13-Nov-12 11:23:39

To me, it sounds like your brother and your sister are of a very similar mindset: neither of them seems to be happy to live within their means, and both consider your mother's house as their god-given right to a little extra with which to fund their dream life. It's not an attitude that sits very well with me, regardless of the differences in their individual circumstances.

Which is not to say that your mother is fair. But at least she's making decisions about something that she herself has earned.

schoolgovernor Tue 13-Nov-12 11:25:19

This is really horrible. Your sister is planning her life around your mother's death. Your mum is only 60 and could have another 30 years to go! The house could end up sold to pay for care costs in the future. Your mum could re-marry - she's only 60 FFS!
Your mum might feel intimidated about this when your sister is still living with her. I'd be inclined to wait until she has moved out and is in her own home. Then the playing field among the siblings will be pretty much level surely? In any case, maybe ask to meet up with your mum, just the two of you then. I might also be inclined to write down what you think about all of this and give it to your mum, which would give you plenty of time to order your thoughts. For me the main thing would be to tell my mum that at her age she should be concentrating on her life - not her death. I'd rather see my mum downsize and spend some money on having fun than sit there watching some family members hanging over her like vultures.
By the way, your sister could be well beyond childbearing age by the time your mum shuffles off her mortal coil couldn't she?

senua Tue 13-Nov-12 11:26:02

As a matter of interest, if Dmum does intend to leave the house to solely Dsis and rings up one day to say "can you mow the lawn for me" or "the boiler is on the blink" would you go to assist in the upkeep of Dsis Dmum's house?
I think that you and Dbro would have the perfect right to pass all future maintenance problems to Dsis. Help with Dmum's personal needs but not property ones.

zeno Tue 13-Nov-12 11:28:10

OP you poor thing, being stuck in the middle of this. For what it's worth, I totally respect your choice to accept your mother's wishes and protect your own wellbeing by not engaging with the fallout from it.

My own mother left a contentious and deliberately divisive will - fortunately I wasn't aware of it beforehand. It took an effort of will to be big enough not to let it affect my relationship with my sibling, but it's really OK. Luckily my dh supports the acceptance route. You sound like us in that your relationships with your siblings are more important to you than a theoretical entitlement to inherit.

All that said, unfortunately there's not much you can do to prevent your siblings falling out amongst themselves over it.

The only suggestion I have to improve the situation is to make sure that your mother is aware that she can leave the house to whomever she wishes in whatever ratios, but ensure that your sister is permitted to live in it as long as she wishes. This is a common arrangement that any good solicitgor would be able to write into a will. There are some pitfalls in terms of who pays maintenance costs during the time that your sister continues to live there, and these are best covered in the will. Effectively the final joint owners of the property hold it in trust during the time that the named person has residence in the house.

Good luck.

EldritchCleavage Tue 13-Nov-12 11:29:59

Your siblings can shift for themselves, but from the point of view of what you can do to stop this situation driving you mad, I suggest:

-telling your DB that you completely understand how he feels about the favouritism that's underlying your mother's decision. However, it's taken a lot of hard work and upset for you to detach from it, and you don't want to be dragged in again, so could he please not talk about it. Especially as there's nothing you can do. He should speak to your mother, if anyone;

-speak to your mother to say she needs to think carefully before she commits to staying in the family home just so your sister can have it. She needs to allow for a her old age costs, like care fees, and think about whether she can maintain the house when she is on a pension. Point out she also needs to take legal advice about what will happen to her tax and benefits-wise if she keeps the house and ditto if your sister inherits it, and work out what should happen in various scenarios, e.g. your sister pre-deceases her. Then step back and leave her to it;

-ignore your horrible sister and her selfishness.

whois Tue 13-Nov-12 11:30:14

I actually think your mum is BU.

House should be sold, and split either 3 ways, or, if your sister really needs more than split 1/4 each to you and your bro and 1/2 to sister.

Sister is being v U with all the "only want to have a family in the home I grew up in" talk.

I can see why your brother is cross. It will be a shame if your sister looses the family relationship with your bro (and maybe you?) over this. Family is more important than the house she grew up in.

Also as others have said. Say that's a 400k house, how the fuck is she going to pay the inheritance tax on that???

greeneyed Tue 13-Nov-12 11:30:58

haven't read past the first page but I'm with the brother, completely unfair - can it be split more reasonably as in 50% to sis then 25% to both you and your brother - understand your sister's need may be greater but she seems incredibly selfish to want to have it all and you have nothing - If I couldn't make my mum and sister see sense and come to a reasonable decision I'd probably be looking at legal advice..... Awful situation sorry OP x

My parents said similair to me about 10 years ago (they plan on leaving their house to my brother, presumably because I have a husband now who can 'look after me' hmm). Luckily, my brother isn't a complete twat and wouldn't hear of it. It's a shame your sister isn't decent.

greeneyed Tue 13-Nov-12 11:36:38

Sorry just realised your mum is only 60 and this is not an imminent issue. I read something the other day which said 90% of people who are 60 today will live into their 90s so this is more than likely academic and either they'll be nothing left or your lives will have all changed immeasurably by the time Mum is gone, who knows she might marry a toy boy in between and leave it all to him! Acceptance is probably the best way forward for now and see how things develop

JollyGolightly Tue 13-Nov-12 11:37:38

My mum is 60, and her mum has just died aged 99. My siblings and I left home years ago, and one of them is now dead. Your sister is foolish to predicate her notional family's future on an inheritance she may not come into until she is well past child-bearing age.

Your mum is foolish to have shown favouritism, which is what your brother is responding to, as much as the details of the inheritance.

You say you've already moved on from the pain caused by your mum's favouritism, which is commendable. In your shoes I'd protect my feelings by keeping my distance.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo Tue 13-Nov-12 11:38:06

You have to accept your mother's wishes and she does have logic to them even if the result seems unfair. If your brother and sister are determined to argue over this I would keep out of it completely. Ultimately your mum can do as she wishes with her property (assuming that your brother is not actually dependant on her).

EscapeInTheCity Tue 13-Nov-12 11:48:52

A few things there.
1- Your mum can take steps now to protect her house if she goes into care. There are ways around it and seen the situation, that's probably best to do so.
2- Your mum really needs to have a will (properly done so it can't be contested) ASAP.
3- Your dsis is deluded. She can't plan her life around her mum death. It is very likely that your mum will be able to see her dgc (well one would hope so)
4- Your problem as a family is NOT the inheritance. It's your mum's attitude re your dsis and the issues it has created. You let go of it and decided not to 'be affected by it' - but then aren't you really. Whereas your dbro is still reeling about the fact your mum has clearly a 'favourite'

I am not even sure whether what your mum is fair or not. It is a complex situation. But your dbro is on the way to have a massive argument with his mum and dsis. Unfortunately, there is nothing you can say or do. You will have to let him choose how he wants to handle all that.

daytoday Tue 13-Nov-12 11:59:25

There was a brilliant programme on BBC I think, about a year ago - which looked at a very similar dilemma. Three kids, one disabled and what the parents wanted to do.

I think they worked through some really good points - like when the parents die - they want the disabled child to have a good relationship with the siblings surely? Also - they worked out that the disabled child would probably not want to live in the big house -

Might be worth searching for on the internet.

MulledWineOnTheBusLady Tue 13-Nov-12 12:06:30

I know it's a secondary point, but as an ageing society we are really going to have to get over this "family home" thing. It's ridiculous.

It used to be something only the aristocracy and the super-rich did - and the truth is they are still the only people who can really afford it. Nothing changed, except a small number of culturally influential baby boomers convinced themselves that everybody is rich now.

Hopefully your mum will enjoy a long, healthy third age over the next twenty to thirty years, and over that time it will become clear to her that this is not a workable solution, for all sorts of practical as well as moral reasons.

Cahoots Tue 13-Nov-12 12:14:35

The BBC show was called Can't Take It With You. It was very good and quite heart wrenching at times. There were lots of cases where everything seemed ok on the surface but where there were lots of undercurrents. I think it made the point that it was usually best to deal with the situation rather than put it off. The people on the show were usually happier at the end of the process once decisions had been made. Even where people, DC's usually, we're not 100% happy with the outcome, they seemed accepting of the situation.

LessMissAbs Tue 13-Nov-12 12:30:47

If your mother sells the house now, and splits the mortgage-free proceeds 3 ways, not only is she more likely to avoid inheritance tax (which will one day render your DSis homeless) but since its a big house, it may fund a small flat for your Dsis as well as your DB's share. And if you really don't want your share you can always donate it to the other two.

I don't think its fair at all to give one child a large inheritance and leave out the other two. I also can't see how your Dsis will fund an inheritance tax bill or manage a big house on her own, if she is incapable of working.

PrincessFiorimonde Tue 13-Nov-12 12:36:00

I agree with catsmother upthread, especially on 'the emotional impact' of a will that disregards two out of three children - quite regardless of monetary worth, I'm sure it must feel horrible to feel overlooked in this way. Perhaps your brother's reaction is more to do with his feeling your mother and sister don't really value him, rather than his being concerned about the money per se? Perhaps you too feel a little bit like that, even though you can see the rationale behind your mother's thinking?

Having said that, I think you started the thread because you don't know how to respond to a situation that is difficult to say the least, certainly not of your own making, and potentially could go on for 20 or 30 years. I don't know what I would do in your place, but perhaps talking it over with a sympathetic family member (aunt or uncle?) or old family friend might help?

I can see it's stressful, OP. I hope things get better.

MrsMelons Tue 13-Nov-12 12:41:10

I've got to say I do agree with your brother. No one is entitled to inheritance but I would hate to think I would ever treat my children differently with something like this regardless of their situation.

I assume from what you have said that neither you or nor brother even though your families work could ever be in the situation either where you have a big house mortgage free either so actually its not really fair on you two either.

If your sister is medically unable to work presumably she will get help from the government and also if she is living with her DP he will support her and their children when they have them like everyone else has to.

I would be very hurt if my parents did this to me and my brother.

PrincessFiorimonde Tue 13-Nov-12 12:50:07

I also think this is a very good point: 'For me the main thing would be to tell my mum that at her age she should be concentrating on her life - not her death. I'd rather see my mum downsize and spend some money on having fun than sit there watching some family members hanging over her like vultures.'

Your mum is only 60 (not that much older than I am shock) - anything could happen in her life over the next 20-30 years.

I also agree that your mum might start to view things differently if/when your sister moves out and shows that she and her DP can survive independently.

Try to be positive, OP. All these problems might just disappear over the years to come <crosses fingers>.

Dahlen Tue 13-Nov-12 12:51:10

This happened in my family (not involving me directly). The woman had three daughters, one of whom had SN. The other two already owned their own houses. The one with SN would never work although was capable of living independently (with support). The house was left to the sister with SN on the proviso that when she died it would be sold and the money divided equally between any living grandchildren of the original owner. This was considered fair by the other two sisters, despite the fact that they'd grown up often seeing their own needs sidelined by their sisters and felt a fair degree of animosity towards her regarding some issues.

No one has a 'right' to an inheritance. It's a very entitled way of thinking. To expect it and build your future plans on the back of it is a vulgar and foolish thing to do, since life has a habit of messing up such plans. The OP's brother needs to plan his debt recovery and house deposit independent of any inheritance, since the OP's mother may live for many more years yet and scupper his plans anyway.

However, if you are going to leave an inheritance, it seems only right to try to do it fairly. I think the OP's mother could protect her daughter's needs without upsetting her son in the process (unless he is an over-entitled idiot who's going to be upset regardless).

I've been the subject of an inheritance that was left much more in my favour. I nonetheless hid this information and divided it equally because loved ones are irreplaceable. Money is just money, and squabbling over it is incredibly ugly and undignified when it's not even money you've earned.

midseasonsale Tue 13-Nov-12 12:52:08

I think it should be split three ways equally. I'm sure your sis could buy a small one bed flat with the money and after all, that is all she needs. She will be getting a heap of help anyway from various things.

Why is your mum so determined to be unfair? Can the family home be split into flats to accommodate you all?

diddl Tue 13-Nov-12 12:53:37

Perhaps when the sister moves out, the mum might think about downsizing.

I wish my Dad would-rather than being determined to hold onto the house for my sister & I to inherit.

I´d much rather see him in a smaller, warmer place with money in the bank.

midseasonsale Tue 13-Nov-12 12:57:52

can you all move in with your mum?

DesperatelySeekingSedatives Tue 13-Nov-12 13:00:34

OP, you have my sympathy sad

I don't have this with my own family as of yet, despite one grandparent dying last year and my gran right behind him- no one is that fussed about the money side of it. as Me and my mum like to say- you can't miss what you dont have. And gran matters more.

However, I am sick to the back teeth of listening to DP's family's obsession with his gran's will. It is disgusting how they behave, fighting, sniping, buttering the poor old lady up (yes she's actually alive and kicking although very frail!) thinking if they do they'll get more. She feeds it though my threatening them that they wont get anything out of her, she can change her will at any time. She does have dementia which doesnt help her paranoia but the rest of them need a good shake!

Your mother and sister are being incredibly unreasonable imo. Your mother has 3 children and should be treating them the same. End of. Your sister sounds like she is waiting for your mum to die. Does she mark the days off on a calender I wonder? hmm That isn't just vile, it's chilling. I can guess how my own mum will divide her assets in her will but we don't discuss it (she is 60 as well actually). I refuse to as does my sister. I hate all this talk of wills when the person is still alive. Write the damn thing and see a solicitor, that's what they are there for fgs. No need to discuss it in depth (if at all) with your loved ones.

msrisotto Tue 13-Nov-12 13:03:27

As Dahlen said, no one is entitled to inheritance! And life isn't fair! The OPs sister was given the hand in life which means she won't be able to work, that's not fair either. At least OPs mum can go some way in compensating and continue to look after her. Op, your brother needs to realise how lucky he is already.

RuleBritannia Tue 13-Nov-12 13:05:11

In the fourth paragraph of the OP's opening poist, she says "when our parents have died". If the house in which the mother lives is owned jointly by both parents, wouldn't the father have something to say? It's possible though that the mother is still there because it was the matrimonial home with a mother and children living in it so, when the sister leaves home, the mother's circusmtances might well change where the house is concerned.

Apologies if I have something wrong here.

Floggingmolly Tue 13-Nov-12 13:06:05

Selling the house now and splitting the proceeds three ways would attract gift tax, I think, (this is payable by the giver, so would radically reduce the amount available to split), LessMissABs.
EscapeintheCity, what steps can the op's mum take to protect her house in the event of her needing care?

Eggrules Tue 13-Nov-12 13:09:32

My Dbro has grand mal seizures and petit mal absences and works full time. My oarents were always very protective of him and have helped him financially. I would find this deeply hurtful if either of my parents did this.

Your Dsis gets the benefit over teh rest of the family. As the situation is being discussed now, I can understand why your brother wants to talk about it.

Blu Tue 13-Nov-12 13:18:58

Your Mum is BU, it is uneccessary to leave absolutely everything of value to one child, uneccessary to lob this into the family dynamic, and at this stage in her life when anything could happen.

Your DB is being VU and rather horrible - and is he planning to keep this rage up for 35 years?

Bear in mind that maybe your Mum feels a sense of guilt or responsibility for having borne a child who will always need help and support.

If you do anything at all, speak only on behalf of yourself, and only to your Mum. Maybe you could suggest to her that one thing that will be important long term is that you siblings remain as close and co-operative as possible in order to amke sure that your Dsis is OK, and that while you understand that she wants to provide long term security for Dsis, there might be ways of doing it which doesn't exclude you and your DB from the inheritance e.g leaving the house to your Dsis in trust, the value to be split between your children, e.g your Mums grandchildren, on DSis's death, by leaving DSis a big enough share to have a modest house and then divide the rest 3 ways, or whatever.

Unless your DM listens to you and changes her mind, there are 2 outcomes for you and your DB: up to you and your DB, really! Or let him wreck his family relationships and you do as you feel happiest with.

Bilbobagginstummy Tue 13-Nov-12 13:28:30

Gift tax???

Are you thinking of capital gains tax on gifts to connected persons? What about private residence exemption?

Fluffy1234 Tue 13-Nov-12 13:32:32

I have 3 DC and my youngest is epileptic. If his conditions carries on in the same way and he wasnt abke to drive and certain careers were closed to him I think I would leave half of my estate to him and a quarter each to my other two children. I would discuss it with them first.

Ithink your mother needs to think a lot more about this. Brutal fact is, as with any couplethat your sister's partner may survive her. What then - will he just receive your family home where he can live and benefit from whilst perhaps remarrying etc - whilst you and your brother get nothing? I can see that your mum wants to provide for your sister but given your mum's young age the best thing would be to for her to sell the big house. Downsize to a home she can leave to your sister and give you and your brother some cash. If your sister needs help having security in her life then it's fair enough for her to get that. It's not fair for her (and potentially her surviving spouse) to be enriched at your expense. Maybe a 60/20/20 split? Or 50/25/25?

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 13:45:27

but fluffy having certain careers closed to someone because of an illness doesn't mean they can do 'as well' financially. if you son became a extremely well off would you still? Would you still give him half if it was obvious that it wasn't his epilepsy that was holding back, but actually is attitude.
I am not saying anything negative about your son, but it seems strange to say I would give one child half because he won't be able to do as well as the others. Because in fact he might be able to, many people have good jobs that can not drive.
There are so many variables.
Also the OP is saying that her sister will never be able to work. But it transpires that she isn't quite sure why since many people with epilepsy do work.

Fluffy1234 Tue 13-Nov-12 13:53:42

I think I would give him more because he suffers such awful seizures, has the piss taken of him at school, has awful side effects from his medication and cant do a lot of things his brothers do and is at risk of SUDEP.
I can't answer the question would I give him more if he does really well finacially because I don't know. At the moment we all just want his seizures to end and for him to be safe, to be able to go on the top deck of a bus without falling down and breaking his neck, to be able to have a bath safely etc. This care costs money.

Blu Tue 13-Nov-12 13:59:33

your sister's partner may survive her. What then - will he just receive your family home where he can live and benefit from whilst perhaps remarrying etc - whilst you and your brother get nothing?

Good point.

Your mum really needs to have a long discussion with a solicitor before making her will.

MrsBucketxx Tue 13-Nov-12 14:00:31

i would suggest that too northern

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 14:05:26

fluffy I get that I do. Mum was in her 50s before being diagnosed. Her seizures got worse and worse until she couldn't be left alone.
I do get what I am trying to say is that the OPs mum has made a decision that is made on a lot of variables. Its has been assumed that the ope sister will never work. Chances are that she will be able to at some point in the future. Its assumed she won't ever be independent. Its entirely possible she can be.
A decision has been made to favour one child based on assumptions. Also as the ops mum is only 60 lots could happen in the mean time. Other people could get sick. The sisters epilepsy could be completely under control.

TandB Tue 13-Nov-12 14:06:52

I didn't realise your mum was only 60. I assumed she was quite elderly.

Your sister may end up sorely disappointed if she spends her life waiting for her big inheritance. There is presumably absolutely no reason to think that your mum is likely to die in the next few years.

I have some extended family members who were constantly talking about the inheritance that was coming their way from his grandmother - they had the whole lot spent in their minds. The way they talked about it, the grandmother was on her deathbed. She actually lived for several more years and died in her late 90s. When the will was read, it turned out she had left everything in trust for the use of a third party. It then became all about what they would get when the trust beneficaiary died which actually happened only a couple of years later. It then turned out that they hadn't understood the terms of the trust properly and they weren't actually getting everything - what they actually got was the residue after several other bequests, ultimately leaving them with a relatively small inheritance, rather than the life changing sum they had anticipated.

CalmingMiranda Tue 13-Nov-12 14:07:30

My In-Laws gave their main house to SIL because they felt sorry for her for various reasons. They are still alive, they now live in a smaller house which they say they will leave to DH and BIL (but of course it might end up funding a care home).

SIL was married when the house was given, she has no children.
She divorced.
Now her exH's and then his grown up son (he had left home by the time SIL married her ex, has never even met the PIL) have half of PILs house.
And BIL lives in a really small bad house with 3 kids, the PILs grandchildren, sharing a box room.

People make very stupid decisions for well intentioned reasons.

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 14:10:11

Just wanted to add fluffy that if your sons condition does effect his life as you described (which I hope it doesn't) what you propose seems fair. Where as completely disinheriting your other kids completely, imo, is different

MrsBucketxx Tue 13-Nov-12 14:12:56

the system is really screwed i think, there should be a third party. to help people to see sense.

Fluffy1234 Tue 13-Nov-12 14:14:26

Sometimes it is possible to be fair by not being equal.
I don't think the OP's mother is being fair but just wanted to add my two pennies worth from a mothers perspective.

Chandon Tue 13-Nov-12 14:16:29

hate hate hate the sort of attitude your brother has.

Anyway, it is silly to argue over it, as your mum my live to be 96, and you might all end up supporting her!

It is stupid to ave the argument for the next 30 odd years, imo.

poor you.

Viviennemary Tue 13-Nov-12 14:17:40

Whether it's fair or not it really is up to your Mother what she does with her money. But on the other hand leaving all your money to one child unless that child has costly medical and/or care needs does seem very unfair indeed. And nobody can predict what will happen in future.

Surrealistrhinoceros Tue 13-Nov-12 14:19:50

I've seen this, or the potential for it, in two generations.

My uncle has almost certainly undiagnosed aspergers - very vulnerable, lives alone, lived with my grandparents until their deaths. Grandmother left him the house and my mum (who is well off) has never quite forgiven her.

In our generation my twin brothers have HFA and are unlikely to live or work independently. I am quite happy for them to receive an unequal share of the inheritance although I hope nobody will be getting it for many years to come!

The current arrangement we have is that some money is currently being
put in trust and further inherited money will go into a trust when the time comes. Myself and older bro are trustees, the trust money is to be used for the benefit of all four of us but on the understanding that we will see to the twins needs first, if that makes sense.

In the hope that you all have at least another 20 years to consider this, I'd say you need to have a family discussion with open minds on all sides, to work out what legal/financial set up best provides for your mums care, your sisters future needs, and doesn't leave you and your brother feeling unfairly treated. Sounds like you are not without needs yourself as a family.

Good luck!

expatinscotland Tue 13-Nov-12 14:26:58

Your sister sounds like a lazy, entitled, bullying specimen who expects not to work in life and have everything handed to her on a plate. Imagine the idea of even thinking of running your life waiting for your loved one to die? That's shameful.

You sound like an utter mug.

If I were your brother, I'd leave both your mum and sis to it, not because of the money, but because of their attitudes, and never have a thing to do with either of them again.

After all, they have you do to their dirtywork, gratis, when your mum gets old and your lazy sister who 'can't work' won't be bothered to lift a finger. Stop being a mug.

AvonCallingBarksdale Tue 13-Nov-12 14:36:00

OP, stop being such a doormat!! How can you accept that your DM just loves you all in different ways? confused I totally agree with your brother. I think your DM has made a woefully uniformed decision (at best - a very cruel one at worst). Your sister sounds totally entitled. If she is 25, is she planning on waiting what could be 30 years before having children? Good god, shit like this makes me pleased to be an only child!

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 13-Nov-12 14:39:10

If anyone of my adult children decided to challenge a choice I made as to what to do with my estate when I die, I would be furious and consider them to be grasping entitled and greedy. They would very quickly be told to learn to stand on there own two feet and stop waiting to jump into a dead persons shoes.

I would be utterly ashamed of them

expatinscotland Tue 13-Nov-12 14:40:53

On the other hand, though, Stocking, her sister sounds like a lazy, entitled, mean-spirited mare.

OP, life is way too short to be a mug. Stop pandering to your sister.

As for what your mother does, her choice, but she's only 60.

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 13-Nov-12 14:49:49

Yes she does, but would the sister or mother describe her in the same way?

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 14:50:25

sock how would feel if one of your children was planning their life around you dying.

Because that's what's happening. Dsis is planning her life around what her mother may leave.

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 14:53:57

But its the sister who has described her. That's where the impression has come from.

I think the mum may not really view the sister clearly.

The problem is that so much emotion can be wrapped up in inheritance. If the mother was leaving more to the dsis I could get it. But to not leave anything at all to the others is quite shocking.

although I am starting to think the op is the sis Tbh.

Floggingmolly Tue 13-Nov-12 14:54:16

The children are planning their lives around her dying because she's discussing the terms of her will at the age of 60, in perfect health. Is it just me or is this shit stirring behaviour on her part? hmm
My parents are both gone, but none of us had any inkling of the terms of their wills before hand, or wanted to.

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 14:55:44

I think you may be right flogging.

I don't even think the mother has a will or actually owns the whole house. The OP is being very evasive in a few things. I think there is more to this.

diddl Tue 13-Nov-12 14:57:43

The other thing of course-& I think that this has been mentioned, is that the sister´s partner could end up with the house, & nothing for any GC that are already here.

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 13-Nov-12 15:03:11

We do not know that is what she is doing.

However, if one of my children did that without me telling them that was the case and they should consider it, then they would be naming a orphanage in Romania after me.

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 15:07:01

my sister has stated she wants the house she grew up in-will never sell it she wants to move straight back in and then have a family.

I am still shock at this comment.

Its almost as if, in the sisters head, the mother is dead. Why would anyone plan on having a family only when their mother is dead? What strange thing to do.

And also the assumption thta she has a right to the family home.

What would happen if the mum dies first? Would it go to her ex husband?

If so could he then leave it to who he wanted?

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 15:09:03

Yes we do sock the op said (about her third post in) that the sister is planning on starting a family when her mother dies and se has moved back into the house.

diddl Tue 13-Nov-12 15:09:17

The oddest thing is not wanting to start a family until she moves back in-if I have understood correctly.

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 15:12:11

Thinking about it. If the dsis is planning on starting a family upon moving back home when her mother is deceased, she must be planning/hoping the mother dies in the next 10-15 years st the most.

If I were the op (and the op is her sister) I would be upset thaty my sis was hoping my mum would die sooner rather than later.

DontmindifIdo Tue 13-Nov-12 15:13:56

I do think encouraging your dad to force the sale once your Dsis has moved out would be the kindest thing for all concerned. Once that house is sold, your mum is free from the 'but she wants to raise DCs in the house she was raised in' argument - unless your DSis wants to get a DP who can afford to pay for it. Also it would mean your mum has cash not a thing - it is easier to see ways of deviding up money than it is to see dividing up a thing

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 13-Nov-12 15:15:44

But has she said that because her mother has told her that the house will solely be hers for her to live in and raise a family?

If that's the case then the sister has said nothing wrong.

AThingInYourLife Tue 13-Nov-12 15:20:20

I agree with expat.

Your mother is a shit-stirring bitch, your sister is a spoilt malingerer and and you are a total mug.

Your brother is right to be pissed off with the situation. It's toxic bullshit.

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 15:21:45

The OP said 'she wants to move straight back in THEN start a family'

Not move her family in a raise them there, which she would be entitled to do.

sorry but it seems like she is hoping her mother doesn't last to much longer. Because she is waiting until the house is hers to ttc.

Who plans ttc around their mother dying? She is planning her future life on her mother dying soon.

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 13-Nov-12 15:27:22

Then in exchange for that piss poor attitude, if that really is what she intends doing then chances are she won't end up having kids and that will be totally down to her own fault

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 19:48:57

sorry-have been out all day.To clarify a few things-house is owned mostly by my dm my dad has a 33% share.

Somebody asked about my dcs and us-we have ehlers danlos syndrome and dd1 has pectus ex and heart prob as well like dh.

Yes my sister is hoping to live in a small flat if she gets one for a few years with her dp, ideally she wants to have dcs when she has the family home but if she has to wait too long for that I think she would start a family then move them all-apparently that will be on the very day my mum dies to stop our brother getting into the house first and 'claiming' it.

I ave been told they do not want my dad or brothr finding out when she moves out then on day when my mum dies it will be as if she never lived anywhere else-apparently this will help her case?

Also, I am NOT a mug or a doormat.

I'd be a mug to get involved in this horrible fight though over money and especially now when mymum is not even ill.

Bogeyface Tue 13-Nov-12 19:56:28

Right, you need to tell your dad about this.

I am sure that he would be disgusted and will atleast make sure that this disgusting state of affairs can't go on.

Aside from the rights and wrongs of what your DSis is planning (I smell bullshit, your mum hasnt written a will and your DSis is going to claim she has always lived there), your Dad has a right to know what is being planned with HIS property.

He has a right to his money back, he has a right to decided what he wants to do.

You have a moral duty to tell him and to hell with your sister.

Bogeyface Tue 13-Nov-12 19:57:41

I should add that imo, if you dont tell your dad then you are as bad as they are.

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 20:01:38

I can see the sense in what you are saying but on the other hand I know it is dsis only chance of getting a home, and my mum wants her to have it-she can be a cow but she has been ill maybe thats part of why she behaves how she does?

I do not want to be the one to make this already bad situation worse by going to my dad with this information as then I will lose my mum and sister completely. I just wish I had no part in it at all.

DontmindifIdo Tue 13-Nov-12 20:03:24

Tell your dad - you are cheating him out of his money.

He could force the sale now anyway, if you tell him they are trying to cheat him due to his generosity of not forcing the sale when your Dsis left full time education, he could do it now, regardless if your sister is there or not.

Get your brother on side re talking to your dad.

Your sister will then have 30 years to 'get over' the fact she's not going to get the house.

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 20:03:29

They will be HATEFUL to me if I did this and after going through hell years ago when they threw me out I cant be in that place again.

I am really in a state over this

expatinscotland Tue 13-Nov-12 20:06:23

I agree with Bogeyface. It is his property, too. She will not be able to dispose of it as she pleases without his permission. He has a legal claim on his stake.

Your sister's just a loafing, lazy, entitled cow. It's a mug's game to have anything to do with her at all.

Bilbobagginstummy Tue 13-Nov-12 20:07:10

Suggest your brother tells your dad. grin

expatinscotland Tue 13-Nov-12 20:08:19

'They will be HATEFUL to me if I did this and after going through hell years ago when they threw me out I cant be in that place again.

I am really in a state over this'

Hateful to you for telling your dad the truth about a home that is 33% his?

The hell with pair of them, they sound like a pair of twisted twats who don't deserve to have either you or your brother in their lives.

And guess what, even if their little plan goes off and your vile sister gets in there, your dady still owns 33% of that property.

expatinscotland Tue 13-Nov-12 20:09:19

They threw you out?

Why on Earth are you bothering with a so-called mum who'd throw out her child?

YY, get your brother to tell your dad.

DontmindifIdo Tue 13-Nov-12 20:11:20

Your mother will still have 66% of the sale value of hte house, she could buy herself a small place and another small house/flat your Dsis could rent from her now, then inherit.

Or, remember your Dsis is only 25 - you are righting her off at a young age, I find it hard to believe her epilespy is so bad she can't work but is under control enough that she can be a mother. She may well be able to work in the future, or her DP might be able to earn enough to buy a house.

If your mum and sister would cut you out because you won't let them swindle your father out of his retirement fund then they aren't very nice people and would you really want to be around them anyway?

Or take the cowards way out, get your brother to call your dad - who I think if this goes ahead anyway will end your dbros relationship with your sister and mum, so there's nothing to lose in getting him to talk to your dad.

nilbyname Tue 13-Nov-12 20:11:39

Cor, what a bloody horrible situation.

I would wash my hands of the whole thing and when anyone brings it up, just decline to be drawn in.

Your sister, from your descriptions sounds rather entitled and misguided.

You on the other hand, sound lovey.

DontmindifIdo Tue 13-Nov-12 20:13:09

actually, why do you want a relationship with them?

Pictureperfect Tue 13-Nov-12 20:13:17

I know a family who had a very similiar situation, they went from being a close family to none of them speaking even many years on. It's your mums choice and I think your brother should consider what is more valuable p, 1/3 price of the house or the value of family

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 20:13:34

They threw me out because I had a row years ago with dsis (who was v rude and hateful to me) I snapped, argued back and slapped her.

Got arrested. When I went home locks had been changed and at 1030pm 2dcs aged 18mths and 7 were handed out to me.

Nearly killed me. I cant argue with them they could destroy me.

expatinscotland Tue 13-Nov-12 20:17:37

You're right, whois, you shouldn't argue with this pair of vile people. You should have nothing to do with either of them at all.

There is zero way a grandparent who did this to my children would ever see my children again.

MrsCampbellBlack Tue 13-Nov-12 20:18:04

Well unless your sister can buy your dad out of his third share - which is a sizeable amount she won't get to keep the house and live there anyway will she?

Perhaps your brother should mention that to your mother

nilbyname Tue 13-Nov-12 20:18:12

Jesus, you should walk away now. If you have a good relationship with your DB, and he was not involved in the locking out thing, then maintain the relationship.

OK, you were violent to your sister....what was that all about?

Your mum and sister sound bloody hateful.

MummytoKatie Tue 13-Nov-12 20:18:29

I think that parents have the right to leave their money / assets to whoever they want.

However, I also think that your sister sounds like a thoroughly spoilt and unpleasant individual and that this is at least partially down to your mother.

I think you said earlier that when you were a single mother with two (ill?) children you had a row with your sister so they kicked you out and changed the locks? Seriously?! Who does that to their grandchildren / niece/nephews?

What sort of financial situation is your dad in? How is his health? Is he likely to need care? He is very kind to let your mum and sister stay on in the home due to your sister's illness but she isn't living there anymore so he could use the money to make his last years nicer.

That third is his money not your sisters, not yours and not your brothers. Unless he is already a millionaire then he will have to go without things to let them keep the house.

Do you really want him to suffer for the sake of two women who threw your children out?

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 20:19:19

If she is in a council house they will know she hasn't always lived there.

Also is she hoping your mum dies soon so she can start a family there?

Seems heartless that the day your mum dies she is planning, not to be upset but to move house. Clearly she thinks alot of your mum.

Tbh they all sound like they are horrible people and I would cut contact with all of them.

catsmother Tue 13-Nov-12 20:20:30

Surely if, as you say, your sister has applied for social housing - it is not her only chance of having a home anyway ? Don't let yourself - in effect - be emotionally blackmailed over . Okay - at the end of the day your mum can, legally, make whatever bequest she wants ... but if there's some plan going on about your sister claiming never to have moved out (supposing she does) in order that she could potentially claim she was dependent on your mum - and thus, I guess, throw a spanner in the works re: your dad claiming his rightful share, then that is tantamount to fraud and certainly very morally wrong. You have the snub directed at your brother and you - and now this possibility that your dad might lose out too - or at least have to needlessly take legal action in order to force a sale/evict your sister or whatever so he can have the share he's patiently waited for all these years. It's now becoming more than "simple" favouritism - this is all getting very nasty and your dad should know what's being planned so he can take appropriate legal advice if he feels it's necessary etc.

MikeLitoris Tue 13-Nov-12 20:20:51

i can see the sense in what you are saying but on the other hand I know it is dsis only chance of getting a home

No it isnt. She is getting a council flat. That will be her home.

Tell your dad. You have to.

Wabbitty Tue 13-Nov-12 20:21:10

You ARE being a doormat. Yes you are damned if you do and you are damned if you don't but you can't sit on the fence.

If you don't do anything you have the potential to have a falling out with your brother (and possibly your father as well) for not supporting your brother.

If you do, do something then you have a possible falling out with your mum and sister. (Who have already behaved hatefully towards you).

As an unbiased outsider your choice is clear.

SundaeGirl Tue 13-Nov-12 20:21:57

I can't believe you would collude in doing your dad out of his money! FGS, grow a backbone.

Your mother is responsible for this mess, not your sister. She should npot have encouraged your sister to think about the house as hers.

If your mother dies tomorrow you father should be able to get his money back. Then he can decide to help your sister, or himself, or all of you equally.

QOD Tue 13-Nov-12 20:23:20

My late fil intended at one point to leave his house etc to my dn who has brain damage ... Worst possible thing he could have done for her as all her benefits would stop, she couldn't live alone ever so her mum would have either lost the HA property they're in and moved into Dfil house, lived on their money until it went and then reapply for assistance.
Or sell house, stay in HA, loose all benefits and spend Dfil money etc ....

Doesn't sund like it would do your sis any good. Why should she sit on her family money whilst claiming benefits ?

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 20:23:28

No one has the right to own a home. She is getting a council place.

Your mother put your kids out at 10.30 at night and they are sick?

why you even care what's happens to them is beyond me

catsmother Tue 13-Nov-12 20:24:47

They sound toxic. Unless your sister is having some adverse reaction to her epilepsy drugs which is completely altering her personality - which I very much doubt - having that condition does not entitle her to be a manipulative, grasping, selfish bitch.

I know how awful it is to feel you don't have a parent "on side" as it were - and very hard to come to terms with them not being who you'd like them to be - but good grief, having to walk on eggshells round them is so unhealthy. You sound almost scared of them.

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 20:29:37

Yes, I was wrong to be violent I slapped her the once as she was being disgustingly hateful. It was amistake that nearly cost me everything.

I do wonder if her meds cause her issues as she can be lovely and wasnt always so horrible. Thats why I do feel that she should have the house but I also feel for db as he wants his money so badly.

and yes, I am scared of her and I think my mum is too sad

expatinscotland Tue 13-Nov-12 20:33:02

So what if you slapped her? They had you arrested and threw you and your kids out in the street at 10.30?!

Who cares if your mother is scared of your sister? That's her lookout and stupidity.

Do yourself and your kids a huge favour and cut these two bitches out of your lives.

DontmindifIdo Tue 13-Nov-12 20:33:13

well, have a word with your dbro, point out that your dad still owns 33% and if he wanted to, he could force a sale tomorrow, and if he knew they were trying to do him out of his money, how does your Dbro thinks your dad would react?

Then stand back, let your dbro tell your dad.

Easiest solution all round.

expatinscotland Tue 13-Nov-12 20:34:14

The house is not your mother's to give away freely. A third of it belongs to you father, who from the sounds of it keeps his distance from her and your sister - a wise decision, IMO.

whoisright Tue 13-Nov-12 20:34:32

re the throwing out my mum begged her not to phone the police but once it was done dsis gave her achoice her or me and the dcs. My mum chose her and as I walked off with kids dsis came back down the drive with her bags-she had told our mum that unless the kids were out she wouldnt come back.

I couldnt even walk past the house for weeks as kids would scream to go home we had to go long way to school every day and I lost 2 stone and virtually had a breakdown.

I shouldnt talk about it anymore I am so upset just typing and it was 4 years ago this dec.

expatinscotland Tue 13-Nov-12 20:36:57

These people should not be in your life or your children's, OP. They are very dangerous and toxic your children should not be exposed to either of them.

DontmindifIdo Tue 13-Nov-12 20:38:58

I wouldn't want you DSis to be anywhere near your DCs and if your mother is still listening to her, then you shouldn't be letting her near the DCs either.

This isn't about a house, this is about who has a right to be part of your life, and your DCs, these people don't. So cut them out. Feel free to tell your dad though, if your father is a good person to have in your DCs lives then it's not right you do him out of his money, which could actually be your inheritance.

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 20:39:05

It did cost you everything. It nearly cost you a toxic mother and sister.

She is spoiled. Its not her meds. You said she has always been indulged.

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 20:40:29

I mean it didn't neatly cost you anything.

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 20:42:42

I hate auto correct.

I meant (again)

It didn't nearly cost you anything.

nilbyname Tue 13-Nov-12 20:53:22

Walk away my love, seriously wash your hands of them, and leave them to their mad toxic ways.

Xales Tue 13-Nov-12 20:54:00

Based on your later posts I wouldn't want any of the money. I would be having nothing to do with someone who threw my kids out on the street with no where to go in the middle of the night and I sure as hell would not be looking after this woman when she was older and infirm.

Look at what not you but your children went through because of the pair of them! You sound like someone giving in to have a quiet life. Fine if that is what you prefer. My preference would be not to have these people in my life and no money can change that situation.

I am actually in the opposite position. My mum has split her will between me (50%) and my sisters children (the other 50% shared between them) totally cutting out my sister. Long story. My sister is seriously pissed off. I don't care I would rather have my mum for the the next 30 years!

I have told my mum that she needs to now at 64 pin down every thing she wants to happen if she gets ill or needs care as my sister will attempt to muscle in and take over whether it is to the benefit of my mum or not. I am happy to look after her or for every penny from her house to go on the best support necessary if that is what is best for my mum!

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 20:54:50

Your sister is a bitch. Someone who would see kids on the street. Complete cow.

Your mother is not better for going along with it.

They are toxic for you and your kids.

Tell your dad. You may accept you are getting nothing but you can't make that decision for him.

gettingeasier Tue 13-Nov-12 20:56:18

Hi

I dont think you are being a mug or doormat it sounds like you have a lot on your shoulders with your family

It doesnt sound like you have the stomach to fight for any stake in your parents estate and from what you are saying even if you did it sounds fairly futile although I am no expert.

I dont see why you would be worried about being cut off from such a family but I am sure there is more to it. I would walk away from the subject. Maybe your Mum isnt even going to really do it but is saying it safe in the knowledge its ages away and who cares what the fall out is when you are gone and is scared of upsetting your DS

AThingInYourLife Tue 13-Nov-12 21:00:03

Presumably this pair of evil bitches are planning to keep your Dad ignorant of the fact that your sister has moved out so that he dies without having asserted his rights to his house.

Then your sister will move in when your mother dies in an attempt to defraud you and your brother from your rightful claim on that third if the house.

Your mother can't leave the house to your sister, because it's not hers to leave.

1sassylassy Tue 13-Nov-12 21:01:54

I ave been told they do not want my dad or brothr finding out when she moves out then on day when my mum dies it will be as if she never lived anywhere else-apparently this will help her case?
,she really has researched this,she is going to claim that she has always been dependent on your DM.
OP I really feel for you,have been through an inheritance case where no will was left and it wasnt pretty,in your shoes I would be letting your dad know the state of play.

ssd Tue 13-Nov-12 21:03:16

op, I think you are a lot more bothered about this than you let on

you're mum is only 60, she'll go on for quite a bit more, stop worrying about what'll happen in the future

if your dad has a stake in the house she cant leave it all to your sis even if she wants to

and if they threw you out, why even think about them, let alone say you'd look after your mum when she gets old

something here is fishy to me

All sounds toxic. They've worn you down so you can't see how awful they are. Your sister's meds aren't changing her personality. She's a spoilt entiled brat.

Your brother should talk to your dad. Your dad can leave the 33% to you & your brother.

How is your sister going to pay the inheritance tax?

SlightlySuperiorPeasant Tue 13-Nov-12 21:07:24

Tell your dad or get your brother to tell him, then forget about it. Your mother and sister sound horrible and I wouldn't want anything to do with them or the money anyway. They (yes, your mum too) threw your children out onto the street in the middle of the night? shock How evil can you get?!

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 13-Nov-12 21:18:28

Sounds like you would be best off out of the whole situation.

Show this thread to your brother and get him to deal with your dad being told

BlackandGold Tue 13-Nov-12 21:29:07

So, has your mother actually made a Will?

Solicitors ask questions of their clients and would surely ask about ownership of the house.

If she claims it's all hers and it turns out it isn't then I think that would invalidate the Will.

expatinscotland Tue 13-Nov-12 21:31:46

I agree with showing this thread to your brother. Sounds like he's got a better measure of them than you have.

And you, look after her when she's old? I wouldn't pee on her if she were on fire after she did that to my kids.

AmberLeaf Tue 13-Nov-12 21:32:44

Im amazed that your sister is getting a council home when she is adequately housed with your mother and has no dependants!

Bogeyface Tue 13-Nov-12 21:42:16

Funnily enough Expat when I was talking to H about this thread earlier (not dissimilar to a problem we have had) I said "I wouldnt piss on her if she was on fire".

TELL YOUR DAD OP, or atleast tell your brother so he can tell your dad.

And then get yourself into therapy ASAP to help you see that you are still a victim of the toxic piece of shit that is your sister.

JustSpidero Tue 13-Nov-12 21:42:27

When I saw your OP I was prepared to wade in with 'your mum's Will, her choice' but having actually read the thread I am shock.

Frankly your sister sounds like a disgusting excuse for a human being who is using her condition as an excuse to manipulate and control as many people around her as possible and do sweet FA for herself.

You have a dad who is clueless about the situation even though he has a vested interest, and a brother who is willing to fight the corner for both of you.

I would take this opportunity to support him in doing just that otherwise you'll be at your sister's mercy for the rest of your life.

Bogeyface Tue 13-Nov-12 21:43:40

Amber Having read what she is capable of, I wouldnt put anything past her, she has probably bullied her mum into writing a letter to say she is being chucked out. Someone who has researched things to such an extent as to know how to claim the house would find the local council no problem at all hmm

AmberLeaf Tue 13-Nov-12 21:54:43

That wouldn't get her a council home these days Bogeyface!

Wow at the way this woman who isn't here to put her side across being demonised in this way.

2 sides to a story and all that...

MorrisZapp Tue 13-Nov-12 21:55:08

I find it very odd that your mother and sister are conspiring over this, given your mothers age.

OP, do you mind answering this? Does your sister think your mum will die soon? The numbers just don't add up or make sense, if your mum is 60 and healthy.

Fucking hell. OP, you should be running a mile from these people. You would look after your mum in her old age, and you are sorry for your sister, despite what they did to you? You are a mug. You are a doormat. Or you will be if you stick around.

Your sister is a total bitch.

You mother is a total bitch.

Your way of dealing with this may be to be the nice one. You are posting about how sorry you feel for them because you want to be seen as nice. You need to get over this and look after yourself and your DC. Nice girls finish last - in this case, with no inheritance, having spent x years looking after a mother who has shown clearly where she puts you and yours in the scheme of things.

OP, you can be nice at the same time as standing up for yourself. You don't have to let them walk all over you. You don't need to have anything to do with them. I can't believe your sister called the police because you slapped her. And then they chucked your kids out. shock What horrible, horrible people.

Bogeyface Tue 13-Nov-12 22:06:26

That wouldn't get her a council home these days Bogeyface!

It would if she has such needs as to not be able to work etc. Presumably she claims DLA etc and there are different rules for people who are too ill or disabled to work.

Bogeyface Tue 13-Nov-12 22:09:08

And what fucking side can she put across?!

"I want my mothers house when she dies but my brother insists that it should be shared between him, me and our sister, plus my dad has a share in it too. AIBU to move in with my DP until mum dies and then move back in on the day she dies so I can claim that I was dependent on her so I can live in it and bring up my children in my own childhood home? I wont be telling my dad about this so he cant force the sale of the house to get his rightful share."

SERIOUSLY?!

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 22:47:35

As awful as this situation is. I would pmsl at that aibu.

Bogeyface Tue 13-Nov-12 22:55:17

Exactly Ihave, I am gobsmacked that anyone could suggest that there is "another side" to this!

AmberLeaf Tue 13-Nov-12 23:02:05

There is always another side to it!

Come on!

drizzlecake Tue 13-Nov-12 23:10:36

then move them all-apparently that will be on the very day my mum dies to stop our brother getting into the house first and 'claiming' it.I ave been told they do not want my dad or brothr finding out when she moves out then on day when my mum dies it will be as if she never lived anywhere else-apparently this will help her case

If your Dad owns 33% then no one can legally own the house without his say so. Speak to a lawyer or put this in the legal thread. Your sis seems to be imagining some fantasy.

drizzlecake Tue 13-Nov-12 23:12:14
Bogeyface Tue 13-Nov-12 23:16:02

The issue is though that the OP's dad is older and in poor health so it is assumed that the mother will outlive him, inherit his portion and then pass it to toxic sister (TS).

This is why I think that the dad needs to know what is planned so he can decide what he wants to do now while he still can. Presumably he knows more of the story than we do (nod to Amber).

ZenNudist Tue 13-Nov-12 23:23:10

Not read all of thread, can see its a tricky one. Could your mum not leave the house to be used by your sister in her lifetime but upon her death the house be sold and the proceeds split between all grandchildren. That way it's much fairer in you and your bro as well as looking after your dsis.

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Tue 13-Nov-12 23:47:04

NOT everybody's epilepsy is easily controlled. 30% of people do not gain any meaningful sort of seizure control.

The list of drugs I have been on in the almost 9 years since my diagnosis?

Lamotrigine - gained no seizure control whatsoever.
Tegretol - gained some (not full) control of my seizures, but caused my liver to go into early liver failure, so had to be taken off them.
Epilim - I was allergic to it, quite severely.
Gabapentin - I am currently on an enormous dose of this. I have far from anything approaching seizure control, I have 3 different types of seizures, and all the Gabapentin is doing is lessening the frequency of the focal seizures from 3 times a day to 1-7 a week. My myoclonic and absence seizures have been treated with different adjuncts, none of which have helped much.

As an adjunct to Gabapentin, I have been on :

Topamax - permanently damaged my eyesight, I now have no peripheral vision, and am classed as permenantly sighted. It also caused worrying behaviour changes similar to Bipolar, which stopped when the medication was ceased.

Zarontin - helped my absence seizures, but worsened my myoclonic seizures to the point that I was basically in myo status. I had to discontinue the medication.

They are currently debating between Keppra and acetazolomide as last ditch adjunct therapies. Neither of which combination will control all 3 of my seizure types.

I have not worked in 4 years, and that was only part time for 6 months until the shop suddenly closed down. I had been out of work (and seeking work) for two years before landing THAT job.

I was medically retired twice before I was 27. It's NOT a nice position to be in.

I am explaining this for the poster who so dismissively said that epilepsy is easy to control and anyone can work with epilepsy. That just ISN'T true. 30% of people with epilepsy gain no meaningful control of it. It's great for that poster that all the people with epilepsy (hate the term 'epileptic', it reduces you to being your disability first, rather than a person first) that they know are in the other 70%. I'm glad for them. Because I wouldn't wish being like this on my worst enemy.

HOWEVER, that said...

To me, the mother is being unfair. Yes, the OP's sister has epilepsy. The OP and her brother aren't exactly sitting in piles of roses though, are they? The OP might be ok with it, for her own sanity, but her brother isn't. Because it IS unfair. The house should be sold, a smaller property should be bought for the OP's sister, and the OP and her brother should split the rest. The OP's mum has been exceedingly unfair and divisive.

chipmonkey Tue 13-Nov-12 23:54:53

OP, I'm with your brother. Of course parents can do what they like but good parents don't have favourites! My IL's have done a similar thing and it has caused a huge amount of upset among dh and his siblings.

FWIW, I am one of four and my sister has SNs. She does work but it's through a work scheme for people with SNs
What is happening in our family is that my mother is splitting everything four ways but giving my sister with SNs a bit more than the rest of us.

The other thing I would say is, what about your dc's and your brother's dc's? If your dc's have a genetic condition, presumably there are things that money would help with? Your sister might not be able to have dc's for all you know and why does she have the right to raise her theoretical children in the home that is denied to your children.

Also, if your dsis can't work, how does she think she will look after children? Looking after small children is more challenging that most jobs and I say that as a working mum.

I think your Mum is being very unfair and I think you're so downtrodden by the pair of them that you just accept it.sad

cumfy Wed 14-Nov-12 00:17:04

Why did your parents split ?

Was DSis an issue then ?

drizzlecake Wed 14-Nov-12 00:23:02

If Dad has no will, when he dies won't a third go to the children. So they are each entitled to a third of a third (mother gets 2/3). Or is that a third of a third of a third(33%) of house value.

Anyway, that should scupper the Dsis's plans.

Have just looked online and I think wife gets first 250,000 so it depends on the value of the house.
But OP still recommend asking on legal thread.

Secondsop Wed 14-Nov-12 01:11:33

Oh my god OP. This is SO not about a house or money. This is about how family members treat other family members and the inheritance of the house is a bit of a red herring in all of this, although it has helped bring the issues into sharp focus. I really think that you should talk to your brother and show him this thread as the 2 of you really are being very hard done by in this situation. Your mother and sister sound, I am afraid, absolutely awful, and I am quite sure they are hatching a plan for your sister to live the life of Riley in the house while everyone else may as well be out on the street (in fact, we know that they are quite happy for your children to be put out on the street at night and kicked out of their home). Please, talk to the people in your family who have seen right through this awful pair. You have a responsibility to make sure your children are safe and secure and provided-for. You have no such responsibly towards an adult sister (who, notwithstanding the epilepsy, does have other means of survival without taking up all the family resources). Of course this may not work as your mother may, frankly, be using the epilepsy as an excuse not to have to fight with your sister about it, but a will made under duress from your sister will be on difficult ground to begin with. I know you don't want a fight about this because a fight would be awful. Unfortunately, the alternative of taking it on the chin seems far worse.

aurynne Wed 14-Nov-12 02:11:47

After reading the whole story, OP, if I were you I would happily tell both your mum and your DSis where they could stick the house, wish them luck and never ever talk to them or see them again. All the money in the world could not make up for having to share those two women's misery and bitterness. You have a beautiful family of your own, plus a brother who seems to love you. Your mum and sister do not deserve anything from you.

sashh Wed 14-Nov-12 04:23:42

It is your mother's house, not your brother's. What she does with it is entirely her choice. What she says in her will is what matters.

FrillyMilly Wed 14-Nov-12 06:49:21

Has your father got a will that states his third will go to your mother? If not as they are divorced surely his third will split between the three of you. I would also wonder about your mothers financial situation. Should she live for another 30-40 years she will need a very good pension when she retires to maintain a big house by herself. If this goes ahead your sister could end up losing the house along the line anyway should she marry then divorce her dp.

JustSpidero Wed 14-Nov-12 07:24:05

Are your mum and dad considered joint tenants or tenants in common regarding the ownership of the house?

If the latter, he can leave his share to whoever he wishes, it doesn't have to automatically go to your mum to them be passed on to your sister.

It's not difficult to sever a joint tenancy if he's not already in that position.

FrillyMilly Wed 14-Nov-12 08:46:54

JustSpidero I thought you had to be tenants in common to have a non 50/50 split.

2rebecca Wed 14-Nov-12 09:24:00

I would discuss this with your father . I don't see epilepsy as a major illness needing favouritism, Couthy's epilepsy sounds severe but many people with epilepsy are well controlled on meds and able to work. Your sister is planning to become a mother and get married and live independantly, she isn't a mentally handicapped person who will struggle through life.
"/3 of the house is your mother's to do with as she sees fit, it seems rather bizarre that if your parents are divorced your dad still has a share in the house as you are all grown up now. I would discuss with him the fact that you and your brother feel this is favouritism. Your sister may choose not to work but I presume her future husband is working if they are planning a family soon.
I would also tell your mum that you feel her plans for her will are an extension of the favouritism she has shown towards your sister throughout her life, although it sounds as though you want to avoid that discussion.

avivabeaver Wed 14-Nov-12 09:32:37

OP
The will is the least of your problems, in my humble opinion.
You need to move away from being involved in this is any way, shape or form. You need to tell your brother that you will not discuss it any further with him or anyone.
This is not something that you can sort out, and there seems to be no desire to sort it out by the people that can.
Your mum may well live for another 25 years. She could change her will at any moment. Your dad could wake up and ask for his share back. Anything could happen, none of it can you control.
do you suffer from anxiety?

expatinscotland Wed 14-Nov-12 10:30:11

Get rid of this toxic so-called mother and horrid excuse for a sister.

IvanaHumpalotCountDracula Wed 14-Nov-12 12:19:04

OP has your mum seen a solicitor or independent financial advisor about the house and will?

www.lawsociety.org.uk/

They will be able to go through all the possible options and outcomes depending on what your DM wants. There are ways to put house/assets in trust or to gift them, but they also have implications regarding being able to live in the property and HMRC.

Without proper advise your DM might do something which has unforeseen negative consequences. Future care has to be paid for somehow - it could leave your DM very vulnerable with a lack of choice further down the line.

Try and persuade your DM to go and get advice - the best money she will spend. Knowing the possible consequences for her might make her change or revise her ideas.

Your DF - I think it's only fair to inform him of what's going on. He might know all this any way and be happy with it. But what if he isn't? He has a right to decide.

CrapBag Wed 14-Nov-12 13:56:15

Only read the first page but I agree with your brother.

Health shouldn't come into it. Your sister has a DP, why can't he provide?

Her attitude is awful as well
"my sister has stated she wants the house she grew up in-will never sell it she wants to move straight back in and then have a family. her and dp are currently waiting for a 1 bed council flat which they will give up when my mums house becomes available" She sounds very entitled tbh.

It should be split 3 ways. I am shocked that your mum thinks you and your brother should just accept this.

ssd Wed 14-Nov-12 18:13:44

something similar happened with dh and his sister

mum died, sister told dh mums house had been put into sisters name 6 months previously

sister got house and everything in it and all monies, then told dh he was only interested in his mums money when he asked if there was anything for our kids (eh no)

it takes all sorts doesn't it

op look after yourself and your family, no one else will

Doobydoo Wed 14-Nov-12 18:23:08

OK.If she has any compassion(your sister)...she can sell the house and move into a more modest one and share the rest with you and your brother.If she can live in a new place with her dp,she can do that.

chinam Wed 14-Nov-12 20:05:07

It's threads like this that make me glad that my mum has nothing to leave me but bills.

whoisright Wed 14-Nov-12 20:16:57

Yes I was surprised myself that she could go on council list esp as they have a 3 bed between them. got it on medical grounds to do with the stairs being dangerous if she has a fit. I struggled to get a council place but she was accepted with a high priority straight away.

I do suffer with anxiety and this doesnt help, my mum is in good health so it is upsetting to have to think about it now.

TandB Wed 14-Nov-12 20:23:42

You need to tell your father about this asap.

One third of this house is not your mother's to dispose of as she pleases. It belongs to your father.

If your father's share goes to the three children equally after both your parents pass away (disclaimer - this might not be what would happen, depending on wills/ownership etc) then you are going to have a right fight at some point because your sister is going to want to live in the house as though no-one else has a claim, and your brother is presumably going to demand, quite understandably, that it is sold.

It could drag on for years, and everyone will be on at you because you will be a party by dint of owning a third of your father's share. You won't be able to just say "I'm not interested."

Sort it out now and save yourself a lot of grief in the long run.

GhostShip Wed 14-Nov-12 20:37:42

Why on earth are you protecting your sister?

Dont you see you owe her nothing? Her epilepsy has nothing to do with this IMO. Its a red herring, an excuse your mother uses to let your sister rule.

You need to tell your dad. This isnt RIGHT. It's also illegal. Or tell your brother. He is completely in the right about this.

whoisright Wed 14-Nov-12 20:40:21

but for the last ten years i have been told it s ALL to do with her epilepsy and provision has to be made for her

expatinscotland Wed 14-Nov-12 20:46:15

whos you have been manipulated and abused by two very toxic people: your sister and her enabler, your mother, who colludes with her entirely.

FUCK them both - their lies, her epilepsy and their sheer awfulness at how they've treated you and your children. Your children do not need these people in their lives; they seem to do nothing but damage.

I'm very angry on your behalf and your children's.

Show this to your brother at the very least.

And try to find a way to get some support and counselling for these toxic relatives whom you really need to get out of your life and that of your children.

GhostShip Wed 14-Nov-12 20:50:32

We don't live in the olden days were people with epilepsy had to have 'provisions' made for them. Most are capable of taking care of themselves and they do it brilliantly! Your sister sounds more than capable, and the fact she wants kids again instils this. Theyve given you a bullshit excuse OP sad

she's had too much mothering and been thoroughly spoilt.

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 14-Nov-12 20:50:51

If it was all to do with her support needs would your dad have a problem with it?

Sounds like that is an ideal opportunity to talk to him about it, if its true and above board he will confirm that.

MrsBucketxx Wed 14-Nov-12 20:56:14

if anything print this outband hand a copy to all parties involved.

MrsBucketxx Wed 14-Nov-12 21:00:29

out and not outband

diddl Wed 14-Nov-12 21:00:39

I think that at the least you owe it to your Dad to say something-even if via your brother.

Does she sleep downstairs, is there a downstairs bathroom, has her epilepsy suddenly worsened?

If not, she´s managed 11yrs there & suddenly can´t anymore!

I cannot believe that she called the police & that your mum sided with her.

I wouldn´t want anything from them-they sound disgusting, but I´d have to do/say something for father´s sake & I´m afraid to stop the sister getting the house.

whoisright Wed 14-Nov-12 21:03:05

she has 1-2 absence seizures a week, no 'big' ones for 6.5 years. she is on a lot of med and gets really tired. my mum has said there is no way dsis wil ever be able to work so she has to be provided for. my grandma (mums side) agrees with this too.

Me and db have always come second. the way my mum and sister see it we are healthy she says she could have a huge fit and die any day.

ihavenofuckingclue Wed 14-Nov-12 21:04:20

If she has been given a council home on the basis of her illness, there will be proof that she has nit always lived at home.

whoisright Wed 14-Nov-12 21:04:37

she sleeps upstairs house open plan so she told council she couldnt sleep downstairs and also as there is no d stairs loo.

MrsBucketxx Wed 14-Nov-12 21:06:36

but she is not dead is she, spoilt totally spoilt.

diddl Wed 14-Nov-12 21:08:45

"the way my mum and sister see it we are healthy she says she could have a huge fit and die any day."

Best not to be planning a family then...

Floralnomad Wed 14-Nov-12 21:10:01

Haven't read the whole thread but if your sister is well enough to consider having babies she is well enough to get a job . Yes she could have a massive fit and die but equally you or your brother could have a massive heart attack and die . Your mother is being grossly unfair .

whoisright Wed 14-Nov-12 21:10:01

yes she has always been 'favourite' but since her diagnosis it got out of hand I think my mum truly thought she would lose her she was so ill initially .

MrsBucketxx Wed 14-Nov-12 21:12:00

does your sister know she is being a brat.

whoisright Wed 14-Nov-12 21:16:07

I think she really believes she is entitled to 'extra' because of having epilepsy. She can sometimes be really nice and in those moments I do actually feel sorry for her as I have seen how ill she has been.

She is spoilt though and can be selfish harsh and abrupt. She seems to think the world owes her and that allowances should be made because of her illness. Usually i can ignore things but the constant talking about her getting the house is getting to me.

kozmic67 Wed 14-Nov-12 21:19:17

Has your dm physically told you to your face what she wants done when she's gone or is all the info you are receiving from dsis? All sounds a bit odd to me! I wonder if you are being told the whole truth! If your dad owns a % is it not up to him what happens to it?

whoisright Wed 14-Nov-12 21:21:00

yes my mum wants dsis to be able to have the house but is worried db will force the sale to get his 'share'.

PainSnail Wed 14-Nov-12 21:22:54

Your mum needs to get a grip and stop coddling your sister.

I have the same type of epilepsy as your sister. Except I have maybe 5 or so abscences a day, rather than a week. No big ones for 5 years now. She is not going to have a huge fit and die. With the kind of epilepsy we both share, I know for a fact that (with the exception of very extreme circumstances) it would be INCREDIBLY unlikely.

Yes, its hard to work. Epilepsy in general is bloody hard work! I also take a lot of medications and sometimes I am so tired and in so much pain that I feel like my body might literally disintergrate. I can barely haul myself to work. But I do. Every day.

My mum has put a little money away for me, knowing that one day my health MAY worsen and I might be in trouble (I've told her to go on holiday with it if not!) in the way I imagine most people with a child with disabilities will have thought about providing for their future if the worst should happen. However, the most important thing she has given to me is a sense of self reliance, and that I should be the one to provide for myself.

Split the house, it's time your sister stood on her own two feet.

whoisright Wed 14-Nov-12 21:24:31

they are presuming our dad will die before our mum therefore his share goes to her then its all hers to give to who she wants.

he said when dsis got dx he would not push for the sale. he moved away last year to devon as could no longer afford to live in london. I miss him. he presumes when they are both gone house will be divided equally.

MrsBucketxx Wed 14-Nov-12 21:25:35

he should, he is well within his rights to do this,

your father will have a say too hopefully he will force a sale so it will be fair on all sides. your brother and yourself have children that more need than your sister anyday.

MrsBucketxx Wed 14-Nov-12 21:26:36

your dad needs to enforce a sale now, sooner rather than later.

MrsBucketxx Wed 14-Nov-12 21:28:26

your dad NEEDS to be told what is happening, the majority of his children will be excluded.

nilbyname Wed 14-Nov-12 21:30:54

Your dad ought to be informed. It is crazy that he owns a third, you are all his children and this might be happening without his knowledge.

expatinscotland Wed 14-Nov-12 21:34:46

Even more vile, scheming that a man with whom you had three children and/or your father will die quickish so you can get your hands on his money.

They just get worse and worse.

kozmic67 Wed 14-Nov-12 21:37:11

When my dad rip was ill he and dm made a will, similar situation in the fact that my younger dsis had epilepsy was on medication and still lived at home, me and my older dsis had moved out at this point. My mum wanted to have a Clause stating that my younger dsis would live in the house until 25 and could not be sold until she had her own, my older dsis was not very about this has we both lived in council houses had to pay rent, money issues etc, where as younger dsis did not and would not, i remember a lot of bitterness around although i tried ignore it, however things have changed very much since, dsis has moved out, rarely relies on dm. Hope thong sort themselves out, do your dsis and brother get on?

2rebecca Wed 14-Nov-12 21:38:53

A house is just a house. No, if the money is split your sister probably won't be able to buy her parent's house, just as I couldn't afford my dad's house. Property prices went mad in some areas of the UK. That doesn't mean I think all the money should go to me though. Your sister should get 1/3 of the money and buy a house she can afford.
I would definitely tell your dad what is going on.

whoisright Wed 14-Nov-12 21:40:19

I really dont know what to do, I started this as more than anything I just hated how its all being spoken about constantly despite both our parents being very much alive.

I have at times felt hard done by esp when I was thrown out but they made me think it was me in the wrong that i was violent because i slapped her and how she is vulnerable because of the epilepsy. I am starting to feel as if they have set out to destroy and manipulate me.

whoisright Wed 14-Nov-12 21:44:10

will be back later ds2 awake will catch up in a while if i can.

GhostShip Wed 14-Nov-12 21:51:15

You need to stop saying 'I don't know what to do' and start doing what y

GhostShip Wed 14-Nov-12 21:51:39

Doing what you CAN do*

Telling your brother, your dad.

Cahoots Wed 14-Nov-12 21:56:06

whoisright. This type of situation is very upsetting and is the type of thing that is extremely difficult to resolve or come to terms with. You have to acknowledge that it is a shitty part of your life and that you are allowed to feel rotten about it and then just try and make sure all the other parts of your life are as good as possible. You need to concentrate on yourself and your own family. You sound like you are very sensible and positive. Ok, slapping your sister wasn't your finest moment but nobodies perfect and considering the circumstances I wouldn't be too concerned.
I hope the comments on this thread are helpful and that everything goes ok.

Journey Wed 14-Nov-12 22:02:33

Your dad needs to know what is going on.

Why don't you support your brother on getting a third each, rather than giving in to your mum and sister? You could lose your brother by not siding with him. Your mum and sister sound awful.

expatinscotland Wed 14-Nov-12 22:19:59

'I am starting to feel as if they have set out to destroy and manipulate me.'

The scales are falling from your eyes at last.

whosright, I lost one of my three children, a daughter, as a child. There is nothing in the world I wouldn't have done for that child or her brother and sister. In fact, if I didn't have them, I'd be outta here. It's for the other two that I get out of bed every day and keep going.

That is what a mother does. There is NO WAY on this Earth I would ever throw my child and her children in the road like that unless they are, I dunno, Ian Huntley, and even then, I'd ring the police and turn them in, not street them and their kids.

These people are very warped and have damaged you.

Show this to your brother. Show him the whole thing. He'll tell your dad, quite rightly.

Then get some help, because these people could be visiting their toxicity on your kids because they have manipulated you.

This person is not a good mother and your sister is just unspeakably vile.

I cannot imagine, in a million years, planning my life around the death of my father and mother, and they're a far cry from 60. I know they realistically have maybe another 20 years left at best. I don't give a rat's arse about their house or stuff, if we have to sell it to buy them the best of care then that's what it's for.

Brycie Wed 14-Nov-12 22:22:51

Am with your brother. Pretty shocking.

EldritchCleavage Wed 14-Nov-12 23:25:34

Now I've seen your recent posts OP I think you should tell your father what is going on, and disengage from your mother and sister completely. It doesn't sound as though contact with them is at all healthy for you.

Have you shown your DP this thread? What does he think?

Bloody hell, NEVER presume who is going to die first. They must have lived sheltered lives. OP listen to what expat and many others have said. Heed their advice please.

expatinscotland Thu 15-Nov-12 00:34:59

The fact that they are both lying and scheming around your father's death, and your sister around your mother's, and she's only 60!, is very disturbing.

I think your father deserves to know and if you can't do it, then again, just forward all this to your brother, because he seems to realise, just how completely messed up the pair of them are.

As for looking after your mother when she's possibly old and infirm, honestly, you need to at least visit the Stately Homes threads on here and get some support! smile

unitarian Thu 15-Nov-12 01:16:32

The mother is going to be rattling around in a massive house for the rest of her life because she's promised it to Dsis.
Pretty soon she's going to ask Dsis and partner to move back in with her.
Gradually she'll find they treat it as their house and she'll be unwelcome in her own home.
I don't give much for the mother's chances of long life and happiness.

OP and DB really should approach father and ask him to force the sale - for everyone's sake.

pigletmania Thu 15-Nov-12 02:25:08

Your mum is being very unfair. Just because your sister has epilepsy does.not mean she cannt work. My friend has severe epilepsy and she holds down a good job. I Wouk try and talk to your mum

diddl Thu 15-Nov-12 07:03:47

If they are divorced, why would your Dad´s share go to your Mum?

Wouldn´t it go to the three of you?

leelteloo Thu 15-Nov-12 07:19:28

Sorry if this has been mentioned but came late to thread and its very long: what about inheritance tax? Is it not 40%? There for would the house not have to be sold in order for that tax bill to be settled because I am assuming your dsis does not have that sort of money personally?

StiffyByng Thu 15-Nov-12 10:16:47

whois, I have read this whole thread with uncomfortable recognition. I know someone who acted rather like yours sister has, with the difference that she was the one who ended up estranged from her family. She had an illness, of which one of the symptoms was epilepsy, and she bullied and bullied her mother into changing her will to cut her sister out while her mother was dying of cancer. The sad ending was that her mother stopped taking her calls and died without reconciling. The woman in question then alienated her father, who also died shortly afterwards, and sister. It turned out that neurological problems were affected her personality, although this was built upon a natural predisposition to bully and parents who had given her her own way throughout life. I wonder if your mother is being bullied in a similar way and will feel stronger once your sister has moved out? The woman I knew also tried to conceal assets from social services and the court.

She did inherit half her parents' substantial estate but died herself shortly afterwards, leaving behind a massive mess which I unfortunately am involved in sorting out still. She was willing to see her own children without a place to live to preserve her inheritance, and her actions in her will and those of the trustees she lined up continue to harm both her children and her sister.

I suppose what all this blethering leads up to is that there was no one in a position to step in and prevent any of this. Because she tried to influence one of the executors to vary the will towards her, and succeeded to some extent, the legal bills to the estate were over a tenth of its value. And it was worth a lot.

Your father can and should intervene to make sure that your sister and your mother, however scared of your sister she may be, cannot behave like this. I also think you should let your brother take this to him - I can imagine you are very worried about losing your relationship with your mother however misjudged some of her actions have been in the past.

To add to my monster post, I can say that I empathise with the unfair distribution. I have worked full time since I left university in a job I frequently hated. I've had two nervous breakdowns but kept at it because it paid my mortgage. My brother lived with my father until he was almost 30, with all his expenses paid, having dropped out of uni and not found a job beyond bar work. He often ran up debts that my father paid off and was bought cars which he crashed etc. I would pay for my father to have substantial items when he asked, even though he had money of his own. When my father died last year, he left my brother more money than me, because he had had an 'unfair start to life'. I was rather hmm, particularly as my brother now lives in a house with the deposit paid by his in-laws in a far cheaper country. Luckily my brother is a decent person and has offered to split the difference between the inheritances. I didn't blame him for it, and the money involved was actually pretty minor, but it hurt a lot because it was the final and lasting example of my father's clear preference for my brother. This stuff stings.

Sorry this is so long.

DeWe Thu 15-Nov-12 11:33:32

whosright Personally I think your sister deserved more than a slap... I think you sound at least as vunerable as she does. She sounds like the sort of person who will always be coniving to get her own way, and people giving in because it's easier.

Go and talk to your brother, work out together how to stand strong. Go and talk to your dad together. Explain how hurt you are and how your dsis is intending to get all the house, and try and make it sound like she's has to have it.

If you don't stand with your brother and dad over this and do nothing, then they may feel that you're standing with your mum and sister. Then you may lose them and their support.

You may not actually be bothered over this issue-you sound to me as though you feel you shouldn't be bothered, but actually are hurt, but don't believe in your ability to do anything about it.
But standing with your dad and brother means that if there comes a time where you need their support, they will stand with you. If you opt out at this point then they may choose to opt out of helping you.

cumfy Thu 15-Nov-12 13:30:25

It sounds like a complex situation where you are being made the scapegoat.

I had a similar situation with my family and found www.amazon.co.uk/Families-Survive-Them-Cedar-Books/dp/0749314109/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352985895&sr=8-1 very useful to work out what was really going on. I found it genuinely insightful.

nilbyname Thu 15-Nov-12 14:42:00

hoping you re OK op x

whoisright Thu 15-Nov-12 20:02:17

I am ok, sorry we are out all day every week day, school, hosp appts, pre school etc. dont get in till late so culdnt catch up sooner.

Have thought long and hard and i will be speaking to my dad tomorrow.

1sassylassy Thu 15-Nov-12 20:04:40

Glad to hear you have come to some decision OP,I personally feel you have made the right decision and hope you feel a bit better once you have spoken to your Dad.

DontmindifIdo Thu 15-Nov-12 20:23:44

i think this is a good call, it also means that you don't have to be the one to tackle your mum & sister.

expatinscotland Thu 15-Nov-12 20:25:39

He deserves to know. On the other hand, you don't deserve either your mother or your sister.

Cahoots Thu 15-Nov-12 20:25:42

Good plan OP. Hope it goes well.

whoisright Thu 15-Nov-12 20:27:59

I hope I am doing the right thing, I dont want to cause my dad stress or worry though he is not in good health and although he has just got the all clear after radiotherapy and hormone treatment for prostate cancer he has a heart prob too and is 75. I have a feeling he will not be pleasedat all wit my mum and sister and there will undoubtedly be an argument.

After reading all the responses here though I feel it is the right thing to do, but I am nervous esp telling him on the phone.

MummytoKatie Thu 15-Nov-12 20:36:32

I think you are doing the right thing. If he had the money from his share of the house then he would be able to live a much more comfortable life. Which for someone with his health problems sounds like a really good thing.

Just a thought but maybe he'd be able to move back to London with the money if he moved away due to finances.

Bogeyface Thu 15-Nov-12 21:03:31

Perhaps you should advise him to get legal advice before he contacts your mother or sister. If you can get him to hold off contacting them, and just deal with it through legal channels then that might help.

Also, make sure that he has his will sorted out asap, as his own wishes will not be carried out otherwise.

DontmindifIdo Thu 15-Nov-12 21:18:27

Yes, advising he gets legal advise before talking to your mum about it would be best. It also means they don't panic and cancel your sister moving out. It sounds like it would help your whole family if this house was sold.

BlueberryHill Thu 15-Nov-12 21:23:21

I have at times felt hard done by esp when I was thrown out but they made me think it was me in the wrong that i was violent because i slapped her and how she is vulnerable because of the epilepsy. I am starting to feel as if they have set out to destroy and manipulate me.

I cannot think of anyone more vulnerable than 7 yo and 18 month old children. Turning you and your children out of your house was despicable. Please stay away from them and look after your own family.

When you contact your Dad, ask him to seek legal advice. He needs to get advice on his legal position re the house, wether he should seek to have it sold and / or his own will. He can then protect his own and potentially yours and your DB position. If he leaves his share of the house, assuming he doesn't force a sale, to anyone other than your sister or mother, their plans don't mean shit.

Bogeyface Thu 15-Nov-12 21:27:41

Blueberry is right. ~If he leaves his share to you and your brother rather than forcing the sale now, then your sister can throw all the hissy fits she likes but she wont get that house unless she buys you out.

You dont sound like you would force a sale, you sound bullied and cowed and for that I really do think you need some more therapy. But, your brother would be strong enough to do that I think, and you dont need to do anything but sign the paperwork.

MrsBucketxx Thu 15-Nov-12 22:15:52

let us know how you get on whoisl

JacqueslePeacock Thu 15-Nov-12 22:45:07

I am shocked at this whole thread - your mother and sister have behaved in an utterly toxic way. I dread something like this happening in my family (a very real possibility).

You are doing the right thing by involving your father. A third of that house is his and he should insist on it being sold. Your sister moving out into her own council flat with her DP is the perfect time for him to do that, as well.

helenthemadex Fri 16-Nov-12 21:16:29

OP I hope that you have spoken to your father about this and that he is going to act, you have done the right thing. You do not sound strong enough to deal with this, but it needs sorting out as it is causing you so much grief

FWIW I have a charge on a house, it sounds very similar to this situation. From memory this charge or interest is registered at the land registry so that the house cannot be sold or 'inherited' without me knowing and receiving my share, Im not sure but I thought that if anything happened to me then my children inherit my share between them or whoever is the beneficiary of my estate (hahahahaha does that mean my debts?)

one last thing, as others have suggested for your own well being perhaps consider speaking to someone about what has happened to you to help you move on and realise you deserve better

MegaClutterSlut Fri 16-Nov-12 21:29:14

I'm with your brother also

whoisright Fri 16-Nov-12 21:30:42

I spoke to my dad at great length today. He was not surprised about what is being planned but blamed my dm rather than dsis.

He said he needs time to think about the whole situation, he said he has no intention of selling now but wants to ensure we all get a completely equal share at some point in the future.

I think I just have to wait and see what happens now and how he deals with it.

cumfy Fri 16-Nov-12 21:48:21

Do you think there's any chance you could get the 5 of you to discuss it all together ? Or will DSis veto ?

I'm also curious as to what DSis DP thinks of DSis plan.

NettleTea Fri 16-Nov-12 21:50:37

I assume he didn't request that the house was sold, and claim his share of the family home (which I am guessing was from the divorce settlement) on hearing the diagnosis because he thought that your sister was going to need care all the time from your mother. He sounds a kind man, who has resigned a financal loss in order to enable your mum and sister to remain in the same house - even if it meant that he wasn't able to stay in the same area himself.
However the fact that your sister has been given her own home clearly demonstrates that she doesn't need the full time care of your mother and she is capable of living independently - especially if she has a partner of her own. I would have thought that his responsibility for her has been superseded by her partner, and that he could quite easily apply for the marital assets to be divided up as per the divorce. Your mum and sister have already had extra time, and I am sure they are aware of this hence them not wanting your father to know. It seems almost as if this plot ties in with his illness - maybe they didn't think he would make it through his treatment.
What does your brother make of this?

Bilbobagginstummy Fri 16-Nov-12 22:27:59

Really glad you spoke to him. I'm not surprised your dad needs time to think!

Hope this is the first step towards it working out for you all.

CrapBag Fri 16-Nov-12 22:29:32

Unless he sells his share and forces the sale, I can't see how a fair share is going to happen as he will have no say in the rest of the equity.

I think the only way it will be resolved is contesting the will at the time.

I really don't see your mum suddenly changing her mind and your sister is hardly going to turn around and say she wants it divided equally.

scaredycat12 Fri 16-Nov-12 22:38:03

"she has 1-2 absence seizures a week, no 'big' ones for 6.5 years. she is on a lot of med and gets really tired. my mum has said there is no way dsis wil ever be able to work so she has to be provided for. my grandma (mums side) agrees with this too.

But having a family - well that's not hard work is it?

You have done the right thing talking to your dad. He sounds like a lovely man sacrificing being close to his children so that his disadvantaged daughter can have some continuity while young and come to terms with her condition. This should not however become a 'lifetime pass' for her to take advantage of her siblings.

scaredycat12 Fri 16-Nov-12 22:46:48

To be honest I think the sister is living in cloud cuckoo land - there are so many things which could happen and she cannot control them all:

What if your dad forces the sale now?
What if your dad leaves a share to you and your DB and you force the sale?
What if your mum needs extended time in a care home?
What if your mum cannot afford to maintain / pay the bills in a large home?
How could your sister afford the bills on the home once she took up residence?

I think your sister is selling this idea that she 'dreams of bringing up her children there' but the attraction for her is the money not the house. She would happily live elsewhere as evidenced by the fact she is planning to move out to live with DP. As soon as she gets that house and you cannot contest it I wager she will sell and buy something more practical / cheaper.

PrincessFiorimonde Fri 16-Nov-12 23:09:55

OP
Well done for talking this through with your dad. Sounds as if it wasn't easy for you to raise the subject with anyone. I'm sure you've done the right thing, and it's good that your dad now knows what's occurring.

Here's wishing you a very happy weekend with your DH and DC.

expatinscotland Sat 17-Nov-12 00:07:59

Well done to you, for speaking with him! He's your father.

chipmonkey Sat 17-Nov-12 01:05:24

whois, I think the other thing to remember is that this is not really about the money. It's about fair play.
In our situation, where the same is happening with dh's family, what has upset me far more than the money is that it has confirmed to dh what he always felt, that there are favourites and that he's not one of them. I would be happier if the PILs had one euro and dh and his siblings got 20c each!
I couldn't ever do that to my children, let ds2 and ds3 think that I preferred ds1 and ds4 because I only favoured them in my will. No decent mother could let that happen.

BadgerFace Sat 17-Nov-12 09:11:50

Surely a big factor here is who your dad leaves his 33% to in his Will. Your mum and sister have no control over this. If your dad left his share eqaully between you and your brother then at least you would each benefit by 1/6th, rather than nothing. Although at some point one or both of you would have to force a sale.

I really feel for you OP. Well done for talking to your dad. Your sister and mum are behaving appallingly, although it sounds like they have past form for treating you so badly. You'd do well to minimise your exposure to such selfish horrible people. And their plan doesn't even make sense! Your mum is only 60.

Brycie Sat 17-Nov-12 09:31:02

The whole thing might backfire on them if your dad decides to sell the house now instead of leaving you and your brother his share.

helenthemadex Sat 17-Nov-12 13:03:35

I think now you have done something, you can sit back and just try to forget about it. THere isnt anything more you can do, you never know whats round the corner life has a way of throwing things up when you least expect them

nilbyname Sat 17-Nov-12 13:14:08

Well done op for speaking to your dad, that must have been really stressful. I know the fall out will be hard to deal with, so get used to telling your mum and sis...
"It is done now, I think we can all just leave it at that"

edam Sat 17-Nov-12 13:20:03

Talking to your Dad was a very sensible thing to do and should help to sort this horrible situation out.

I'm surprised so many expert neurologists are on this thread, confirming absolutely that everyone with epilepsy can have their condition controlled perfectly with drugs. hmm Posters who think they know absolutely that every person with epilepsy can work know jack shit about it and have no business commenting.

I have epilepsy and DO work but I'm well aware that there are people whose epilepsy is not controlled no matter how many drugs are tried - not least because my sister is a learning disability nurse and this applies to many of her patients. This does not necessarily mean the OP's sister will never work, but sheesh, how arrogant and stupid of posters to think they know better than any doctor what possible range of severity and impact there is.

whoisright Sat 17-Nov-12 13:58:18

I hope it does all work out ok, I do feel better today that I spoke to my dad but I am still unsure how things will be resolved as my dad wants to be fair and leave his share equally to the 3 of us. He has spoken to db about it too now but nobody has spoken to my mum or sister yet.

My db is VERY against a sale now as then the money will be split between our mum and dad and db concerned that our mum may rent rather than buy effectively spending his inheritance.

Doesnt seem like this will end well I can still forsee a lot of arguing, I think i have done all I can do and what I think is right (thanks to the advice here).

Just a case of wait and see now but hopefully I can try to distance myself from it all, Im having a hard time coming to terms with how difficult and upsetting my family dynamics are. I really hope I can do things diferently with my dcs.

Bogeyface Sat 17-Nov-12 14:10:39

Ermm....your brother isnt looking too good now either!

He doesnt want his inheritance being spent? He is beginning to sound as bad as your sister!

i think your db needs to be reminded that it's not his inheritance, it is his mum's money!

he sounds rather entitled, as does your sister.

and you are rathe under-appreciated. so here's a {{{{{{{{{hug}}}}}}}}}

Brycie Sat 17-Nov-12 15:08:58

If it's sold now then your father's share doesn't have to go to your mother, it can go to your Dad, you and your brother.

whoisright Sat 17-Nov-12 15:11:20

The thing is, my sistr wants the house and my brother wants some inheritance at some point and both of them are stubborn. I suppose at least my brother wants it to be an equal thing whereas my sister wants it all.

The thing that makes it all so difficult is that both of them CAN be lovely yet they seem preoccupied with money/property/who has the most/best of everything. Only recently they had a fight at my house over who would be first to have the next child as both of them want my angelcare monitor when i have finished with it!

I grew up with their rivalry but this whole inheritance thing has taken it to a new level.

Hopefully my dad will come up with some sort of plan.

Brycie Sat 17-Nov-12 15:13:54

I feel very sorry for him and you. It's like King Lear and Cordelia.

Hopefully he'll force a sale, keep the cash or if he doesn't need it bung it to you and bro. Then your mother and sister can harry themselves through a miserable life and the whole stress will be lifted from your shoulders. It won't be "fair" as in an equitable financial settlement but at least you'll have something for your children andt those two won't have got their wicked way.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 17-Nov-12 15:18:18

They do know that it's not there money to decide about don't they?

Your parents could sell the house and spend the proceeds on penny sweets if they want.

cloudpuff Sat 17-Nov-12 15:21:55

It all sounds very stressful and I honestly think you are doing the right thing.
My dad died very suddenly in January and had no will, he did have a lot of insurance policies and Dads wife and stepson has the lot whislt his two natural children (me and my brother) have not got a penny. I dont know how much was left but I do know the house is fully paid and my stepbro went from having bailiffs at his door the week my dad died to now planning the wdding of a lifetime.
dads wife is disbaled as is there Daughter so I understand they should be cared for but I do resent my stepbrother benefitting now by having tens of thousands of pounds spent on him, when my brother and I don't, and I know for fact he will inherit everything upon my stepmum dying. I will never ever say anything out loud though as the stress would not be worth any money I would recieve, I am happy with my life so they can all go fuck themselves tbh.

whoisright Sat 17-Nov-12 15:22:28

Even if i never get a single penny I wont care.

All that mattered was hearing my dad say he wanted to leave his share equally and feeling that maybe I am just as important because for most of my life I have been in dsis shadow. Sometimes I could understand that it had to be that way as she has at times been very unwell with her epilepsy but at other times it was just a case of my mum choosing her over me and it hurt.Terribly.

cumfy Sat 17-Nov-12 15:24:52

Only recently they had a fight at my house over who would be first to have the next child as both of them want my angelcare monitor when i have finished with it!

confusedconfused

So you do all speak ?
You do let her in your house despite her having thrown you out ?

So why not arrange to talk about it ?

whoisright Sat 17-Nov-12 15:25:06

really sorry you are going through similar cloudpuff.

whoisright Sat 17-Nov-12 15:29:14

Yes we do speak, although it is not often the occasion at my house was when db was visiting (he lives quite far away from us) and he had his daughter that weekend too so I thought itd be a good idea to invite my mum and sister too as they hadnt seen db daughter in ages.

BIG mistake ended up in an argument and dsis went home very put out that db wants my old baby stuff as well (neither of them has actually asked me-they just eye up the nice bits).

We couldnt even manage a family get together so a discussion about the house would beover before it started.

prettybird Sat 17-Nov-12 15:30:09

What your dad does need to do just now (to keep options open) is make sure there is a "charge" on the deeds of the house at the land registry (not sure what the correct term is) to make sure that his interest in it is registered.

He can also make sure that his own will is clear about to whom that share should go.

That way, if/when he dies and/or your mum dies, at least that bit is clear and it doesn't just "lapse" to your mum or your mum's estate.

whoisright Sat 17-Nov-12 15:33:07

I stay on friendly terms too as dd1 idolised her aunty even when we got thrown out (dont think she understood what had happened or why) and she wanted to see her so a few weeks after we had been thrown out for a while I had to drop her off for 'contact' visits then wait in the front garden afterwards for her to be sent back out to me.

Was a horrible horrible time I was broken but went along with it as dd1 kept crying to see her aunty and grandma.

cumfy Sat 17-Nov-12 15:50:42

Yes, but how precisely would it be over ?

You would not end it. Nor would DB.
Who exactly would end it and how ?
The fact that the person "who ends it" and the manner in which that happens speaks volumes about the central issue.

cumfy Sat 17-Nov-12 15:52:12

You should still have that discussion, even if it ends as you predict. No ?

orchidee Sat 17-Nov-12 16:42:51

I'd be tempted to cut contact with sis and mum, at least temporarily. Get yourself over to relationships where you'll get support and info on your family dynamics. Do something that nourishes your soul. smile

I think it's great that you told your dad. Your conscience should be clear, you haven't helped them scam him.

nkf Sat 17-Nov-12 16:52:40

I think your mother is making ill considered and unfair decisions but, actually, I am more concerned about your distress. I totally see that it is not worth getting into a fight about a house that is owned by a 60 year old woman. So sorry. Hope it calms down somehow.

Brycie Sat 17-Nov-12 19:17:24

"All that mattered was hearing my dad say he wanted to leave his share equally and feeling that maybe I am just as important because for most of my life I have been in dsis shadow. Sometimes I could understand that it had to be that way as she has at times been very unwell with her epilepsy but at other times it was just a case of my mum choosing her over me and it hurt.Terribly."

This is so sad. I hope you find some peace.

Well done for talking to your dad, OP. so sorry for everything else that is going on, it sounds incredibly hard sad

Jux Sun 18-Nov-12 00:23:42

Well done, talking to your dad.

It looks like your sister is bullying your mum quite badly.

Mimishimi Sun 18-Nov-12 03:42:40

I think it looks like one of my brother's is never going to own his home. If my parents said in their will that they would like him to live there should they die, I would not be too cut up about it at all (would be quite pleased and relieved for him actually) but I would prefer that the proceeds, if it were later sold, were split three ways. Hopefully it's not sold at all because it's been in the family a long time. At any rate, it's none of my business and find it distasteful to think about.

houseofpox Sun 18-Nov-12 04:06:23

A lot of people take advantage of others finding the discussing of financials distasteful. Best to get it out in the open.

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