To think that my dh should have married a bloody lap dancer if he loves them that much......

(188 Posts)
plim Mon 12-Nov-12 23:33:33

So, dh took his best mate on a 'belated stag do' this weekend - they didn't go last year when he actually got married as his fiancé was preggers.

we have just bought house, are skint, have just taken out a loan, I'm on maternity leave with our 3rd child so money is tight. Dh booked a 4star hotel for the two of em, made a weekend of it, I eeeked it out of him that they went to a lap dancing club and had 'lots of dances' in a VIP room.....

Not so much disgruntled about the fact that they went to a lap dancing club although I think they are degrading and vile but hey if thats what floats their boat, but more annoyed that we are brassic until I go back to work in new year and they have just blown a small fortune on boobs n ass being waggled in their faces.........asked dh how could we afford 4 dances each etc and he stated that 'he did not have to explain himself to me'. To top it off he was so pissed on Sunday that I told him to go straight to his weekly abode ( he works down south 3 days a week) and he will now not be home till Friday.

Just all feels a bit selfish when we have 3 lil ones and things are tight but at the same time I do think everyone has the right to let their hair down etc....

queenofthepirates Mon 12-Nov-12 23:38:31

Can I suggest you turn it around, book a spa weekend and leave the kids with him? You sound like you could do with it!

Darkesteyes Mon 12-Nov-12 23:39:15

Your DH is an arsehole and has no respect for women. And if you and the DCs now have to go without and "he doesnt have to explain himself to you" that is financial abuse.
4 dances EACH??? Feckin hell he would be out the door if he was my H (sorry cant bring myself to put D)

Darkesteyes Mon 12-Nov-12 23:41:00

Oh God not another one who thinks a spa weekend can make up for this? Where is the OP gonna get the money for that now anyway being as hes pissed it all away on lap dancers.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 12-Nov-12 23:47:01

He could have let his hair down without the lap dances, y'know.

Whoknowswhocares Mon 12-Nov-12 23:47:38

I wouldn't find it bloody acceptable even if he had plenty of money.
The fact that he chose to do this and leave his family short of money is unspeakable!
Are you really prepared to allow yourself and your children to be lower down the financial list of priorities than a lap dancer?

plim Mon 12-Nov-12 23:48:08

Yes agree doctrine

defineme Mon 12-Nov-12 23:51:51

My dh lets his hair down, but it's never involved buying naked women's time.
When we were short of money we were making budget plans together...
I'm so far away from a world where this is acceptable behaviour that I don't know what to say.

CuriousMama Mon 12-Nov-12 23:53:43

What defineme said.

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 12-Nov-12 23:54:40

In my opinion going to a strip/lap dancing club is not a big deal. However,you can almost certainly turn this to your advantage. Arrange some time to yourself,y'know,spa,hairdressers,massage or indeed a night out with your friends...and remind him,everyone needs to let their hair down sometimes.

Use your power OP!

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 12-Nov-12 23:56:56

Alis, they have no money.

Even if you aren't against lapdances, surely you are against spending money you don't have on them when things are tight with mortgage and three DCs.

How much did he spend, op?

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 00:01:56

I don't know, he says he 'saved up some cash for it' but didn't use his card, withdrew cash. he payed for hotel for both of them which was 220, I reckon he spent about 400. Only guessing though. I suppose we have different priorities, I'm saving to get the kids Xmas pressies and he is saving for boobs. Lol.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 13-Nov-12 00:03:29

Shit!

Sorry OP, I misunderstood. Thanks for putting me straight TheDoctrineOfSnatch.

In that case OP,if he has spent money that you don't really have,that should have been spent either just on your children or you as a family unit.regardless of what he spent it on,you have every right to be angry with him.

I don't think that him spending the money where he did is the biggest issue, it's that he spent money,that you don't really have to spend,purely on his own personal enjoyment with no regard to you or your children.

You should speak to him,and regardless of whether you have an issue with lap dancing and so on,don't make it the issue and don't let him make it the issue. The money he spent is the issue.

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 00:04:36

Do you know what, it must have been more than that thinking about it, they went out for dinner, boozed it up and paid strip club prices, maybe 500... Gawd knoes

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 00:05:14

Sorry gawd knows, not knoes

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 13-Nov-12 00:11:03

Fucking hell that is a lot of money. I mean fuck. I am now stunned that he could spend that kind of money knowing his family needed it.

I honestly don't know what to say OP,I am so shocked. That isn't helpful I know,sorry.

What do you want to do,going forward?

McChristmasPants2012 Tue 13-Nov-12 00:13:46

the lap dancer wouldn't be an issue, spending money that you as a family unit hasn't got that would make me livid

WorraLiberty Tue 13-Nov-12 00:15:20

You say that you're "Not so much disgruntled about the fact that they went to a lap dancing club"...but you are otherwise your thread title and other comments would be completely different.

The fact is, money is tight and you're saving for Christmas so you have every right to be angry.

Were you ok with him going away at all considering money is tight?

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 00:17:44

Well I'm going out with the girls on Friday night to slobber over Daniel Craig so that's a good retributional start I guess. grin

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 13-Nov-12 00:19:15

But only a start Plim! ;)

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 00:20:49

Sorry worra cross posted. He did have it planned for quite a while, I guess I thought they might have been a bit more mature about it and reigned it in a bit.

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 00:21:47

Yes, he's on dodgy ground full stop alis

SomersetONeil Tue 13-Nov-12 00:22:35

"...and he stated that 'he did not have to explain himself to me'."

The lapdancing and going out and spending money you don't have isn't even the nub of the problem here. Sorting those things out will only be putting a plaster on an amputated leg.

The above statement says everything you need to know. I can't imagine ever hoping to reason with a person who thinks like this in a marriage/committed and equal partnerhip with children.

StuntGirl Tue 13-Nov-12 00:23:38

Do you really view this all as a joke? Or is humour your way of coping with a really shitty situation?

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 00:23:51

Yes, I know, I did retort that I am his wife and I have every right to an explanation

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 00:25:42

Coping mechanism I think stunt girl, I don't want to completely blow my lid! ;)

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 13-Nov-12 00:29:22

I do jokes as a coping mechanism too OP. It's the laugh/cry thing isn't it. Or given my temper, it's the laugh/go on homicidal rampage thing <joking>

StuntGirl Tue 13-Nov-12 00:31:20

The lapdancing is something of a red herring really. The fact he spent around £500 in one weekend when you are struggling for money smacks of disrespect.

It absolutely is your business, I would be pretty furious right now.

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 00:31:32

Ah yes a good old homicidal rampage! Joke also!!

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 13-Nov-12 00:33:16

It's ever so tempting sometimes <mostly joking>

In all seriousness though,I hope you are alright Plim.

Charbon Tue 13-Nov-12 00:44:29

I imagine all this behaviour is connected isn't it?

A man who feels entitled to pay women for sexual entertainment and services, feels entitled to spending hundreds of pounds that his family can't afford and when challenged by his partner, says he does not have to explain himself to her.

It would have been more surprising if you'd said you were in a relationship with a man who regarded you as an equal partner.

Mousefunk Tue 13-Nov-12 00:48:46

I would leave my DH if he ever had the audacity to have another woman's tits, arse and god knows what else is in his face, on his lap wherever. I mean turn it around- how would he feel if you had a cock in your face or gyrating all over your lap?!

I find these sorts of establishments crude, vile and demeaning (both men and women ones). I personally wouldn't ever attend i'm far too uptight .

I would feel violently sick if I knew my DH had done this and to add insult to injury had paid hundreds?! for it.. Its like why have a chicken nugget when you have a full chicken at home? It just makes no sense to me.

I suggest you go pay hundreds to have some scantily clad bloke wave his cock in your face and video it

Jinsei Tue 13-Nov-12 00:51:23

Sorry OP, but I could not live with a man who thought it was ok to do what your DH has done. sad

SomersetONeil Tue 13-Nov-12 00:54:09

'He doesn't have to explain himself to you' is just so petulant and immature.

Can we take that stance to its logical extreme...? I mean, could you go out and, say, shag your way through a swathe of blokes and not expect to have to explain yourself to him? Hardly.

So given that we can't take that statement to its extreme, then surely there is a reasonable point at which, yes, he does have to explain himself to you, especially when it involves family funds when you're skint.

But of course, what he really means is that he's entitled to do what he wants, when he wants, while you're at home looking after his children - and could you please stop asking annoying questions which put a handbreak on his fun and just bloody well put up with it, for heaven's sake?

KRITIQ Tue 13-Nov-12 01:00:57

Charbon's hit the nail on the head here, imho. It sounds like he feels incredibly entitled - to sexual services from women, whether or not his wife is happy about that, to pay for those services and other indulgences for himself and his friends, again regardless of the negative impact on family finances and results in you having to save up for the children's Christmas (and probably do without some things yourself.)

If he doesn't feel he has to explain anything to you about this incident, it sounds likely he'll say the same thing about anything else he chooses to do which you don't like, don't think is a good idea or is hurtful/harmful for you and the chidlren.

I understand that trying to "laugh it off" is a way of coping with his hurtful and disrespectful behaviour, but there's a danger that that could morph into excusing abusive, controlling behaviour. As someone upthread pointed out, what he did was a form of financial abuse.

Lots of not nice stuff to think about, but important to take a cold, hard look at the situation and what the likely outcomes could be for you and your children if he continues to feel entitled to do as he pleases.

garlicbaguette Tue 13-Nov-12 01:52:34

YYY Charbon.

Basically it wouldn't happen if Plim were in a relationship with a man who regarded her as an equal partner. As it is, he appears to feel his contributions to his family are concessions (be grateful, etc). If he reckons he's perfectly within his rights to spend loadsa money on ostentatious consumer sexism ('Lads'), while his family's strapped for Christmas, he's really making his priorities clear sad

I wish I knew what to do about this. I understand the suggestion to go for a spa weekend - I've done it myself in similar circumstances - but that's a passive-aggressive response and makes the problem worse overall. Really, OP, you could do with a massive shakedown that's serious enough to get him looking at things more clearly. But can you do it?

Joiyuk Tue 13-Nov-12 02:22:54

Simple answer, strike him off the Christmas present list. Don't buy him anything. Don't buy him a birthday present either. I cannot believe anybody would go out and do that. What a pig!

ENormaSnob Tue 13-Nov-12 07:00:41

This is a huge deal IMO. All of it.

Definitely a deal breaker in my marriage.

StuntGirl Tue 13-Nov-12 07:09:24

I don't know if that's the answer to their problems joiyuk!

Euphemia Tue 13-Nov-12 07:16:06

The lapdancing would be a deal-breaker for me, never mind all the rest. sad

HippieHop Tue 13-Nov-12 07:18:04

Would be a deal breaker for as well me, actually.

Vile thing to do, as is his attitude towards you.

AThingInYourLife Tue 13-Nov-12 07:19:10

You're obviously mostly OK with the fact that your husband is a contemptible cunt, shit husband and lousy father.

Enjoy your "revenge" of going to the cinema with your friends. That'll show him hmm

ihavenofuckingclue Tue 13-Nov-12 07:21:13

I agree with the others that said the lap dancing is a bit of a red herring.

I would be spending until Friday making arrangements for his departure. I am not going to say 'leave the bastard' but I would.
If my dh went out spent £500 just before Christmas and money was tight. I would feel hurt and like me and kids were not high in his priorities. But then add on 'he doesn't have to explain himself' and it would push me over the edge and him out of the door.

Hr clearly doesn't think much of his family and he can act how he wants and fuck the consequences. Sorry but I wouldn't want my kids being brought up thinking that its ok for him to put himself before everyone else including them.

And tbh 'belated stag do' sounds so fucking 'sad middle age man desperate for an excuse to spend what he wants and act how he wants'.
This bloke didn't have a stag do, and what? Well done for him for not having one because she was pg. But surely she is now sat at home with a baby instead.
They both sound like cocks. Sorry.

Chandon Tue 13-Nov-12 07:22:52

It depresses me that women chose to be with men like this, his views on women as disposable sex toys are clear, loud and clear.

Why on earth be with someone like that, if you have to tolerate him shagging prostitutes ( oh, does he say he does not take it quite that far? Yet?), have that kind of attitude to women, and talk to you like that.

Why go on and on and have more children with a man like that? Why do women do this? Do you think you are worth nothing better than this????

So sad.

whatsforyou Tue 13-Nov-12 07:26:38

There is also a difference between going to a lap dancing club and paying for a dance. I hate these clubs and think they are so demeaning but I can see how if a group of men are out for a stag do it might feel awkward for one person announcing that they are not going. Getting private dances are different, they might not be paying for sex but they are paying for sexual services. IMO I wouldn't be surprised if someone saying for dances at some point in their life uses prostitutes.
For people who think the money is the big problem, not for everyone. It would be a huge problem for me but the lap dancing would be the thing that ended the relationship.

twofingerstoGideon Tue 13-Nov-12 07:28:43

So, OP, there are three issues. Your DH went out and:
paid for another woman to wave her tits and arse in his face (has no respect for women generally and no respect for you and your family);
spent money you don't have (has no respect for you and your family);
said he doesn't need to explain himself (has no respect for you and your family).

Personally, I'd go fucking ballistic.

And I agree with what Chandon says.

Jemma1111 Tue 13-Nov-12 07:36:32

He is obviously the kind of man who has zero respect for women, and by treating his wife like a doormat whilst he pisses off to a 4 star Hotel and pays for lapdances knowing full well his family are struggling, I honestly think that he didn't stop at just ogling women.

He could have had a right shagfest of a weekend for all you know Op.
I'd fuck him right off

mrskeithrichards Tue 13-Nov-12 08:04:57

Ending up on a lap dancing club on a big stag do wouldn't be a deal breaker.

2 men on their own spending money on private dances? Creepy. Even in a big group there's no need for that. He obviously enjoyed it <shudder> and kept putting his grubby hand in his pocket to spend money you don't have for his own sexual enjoyment. Lovely.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Tue 13-Nov-12 09:35:05

Good point mrskeith

Op if you and a mate went to the ritz and blew £500 on champagne then said you didn't have to justify it, what would DH say?

DappyHays Tue 13-Nov-12 09:51:49

Agree with the post upthread about lap dancing clubs being part of a big stag do is sometimes par for the course. Two guys spending £££s when it isn't even a stag do...that belated thing is bollocks. No wonder only two of them were there, the rest of their mates probably aren't that sad. And what is the 4* hotel all about? Stag dos are what Travel Lodges and Premier Inns were made for.

His attitude towards you stinks.

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 09:58:18

Well if this had all happened say 18 months ago we were financially fine, I was on a lucrative consultancy contract and whilst I just wouldn't blow £500 on a self indulgent night out whenwe have young kids to think about, it just wouldn't have been such a problem. The issue now is that we have just paid a hefty house deposit and the other costs with moving house, are renovating a property that needs everything from flooring to damp courses etc and are t the end if the money that I saved fir my maternity leave. We have just borrowed more money to pay off our huge od and pay for unexpected house stuff like a rotten floor etc so we are honestly financially tight. So that's why it has pissed me off so much. Last week I suggested we try and save enough to put down a deposit on a family holiday next year - camping in France or something equally thrifty but dh said we couldn't afford it at the moment. So when he says he saved to go out and large it up with his bf - and have the immaturity to pay for him ( they have more money than us) that's what I am struggling wit.

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 09:59:51

Sorry about typos, stupid ipad

Sallyingforth Tue 13-Nov-12 10:00:15

Is this behaviour new? I think you are wrong to be having children with such a man.

BupcakesAndCunting Tue 13-Nov-12 10:00:40

There was just him and his best mate? hmm

He sounds a prick on so many levels. He has used your money, that is tight, to help oil the cogs of an industry that objectifies and exploits women. Nice. Are your DCs girls btw?

I would tell him not to bother coming home. He sounds like a manchild with a lot of growing up to do and he needs to learn some respect whilst he's about it.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 13-Nov-12 10:05:22

YANBU.. Doesn't actually matter if he spent £400 on a dancer or a set of golf clubs. What stinks is that your family is in debt & can't afford it yet he thinks it's nothing to do with you. He regards you as irrelevant....

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 10:11:39

It was his money not mine, out of his salary, not that it changes things but don't want to wrongly incriminate him for spending my cash, not sure how he managed to sidle it to one side though when we are really having to budget for stuff. I wish I had more money saved so I had a bit more independence, need to find a job I can do from home so I can save some cash up. Will then be in a stronger position if that makes sense. Home working ideas welcomed!!

AlienRefluxovermypoppy Tue 13-Nov-12 10:15:22

YA sooooooo NBU.

Why did he pay for the other bloke???!!

I would be livid about the whole sleazy thing. he spent your kids Christmas money (all of yours, not just his because it was out of his salary) getting a hard on over strange women.

Did you discuss this trip before he booked it?

You are very easy going OP, maybe too much so?

I think he's a selfish leering twat, sorry sad

BupcakesAndCunting Tue 13-Nov-12 10:16:57

You're saying that money is tight and you are scrimping for the children's christmas presents? Well, what does HIS salary go on? Is it that his salary goes on frivolities whilst yours pays the bills etc? And I would be VERY pissed off if he had been siphoning money off to pay to get some poor woman's tits jiggled in his sad little face, whilst you are taking out loans to pay for essentials. That is so immature and selfish.

Sorry but you are on maternity leave and he is your DH. His money is yours too, yours as in you the couple. This isn't your fault for being on mat' leave/being a SAHM. Presumably you both made the decision to have you at home with the DCs? He needs to suck it up and grow the fuck up. Don't give him ready-made excuses. He has been a dick.

somewherebecomingrain Tue 13-Nov-12 10:17:49

OP I think you know him best - is this all there is to him? Probably there's another side to him otherwise you wouldn't still be with him.

Essentially what he is displaying is HUGE immaturity - a toddler-like narcissism, an inability to consider the bigger picture, and a self-indulgent showering of himself with sex sweeties. It's all very human but it isn't excusable in the circumstances.

Is this a fixed, unchangeable, hard-wired personality trait? If so it's quite sinister and you've got a problem.

Or can he, like most people, grow and learn? In which case my instinct would be to be crafty, patient, and wait for your moment to help him face up to why what he did was wrong. There's usually a moment where it's really hard for them to throw up dust and they have to look it in the face.

He has been very immature and badly behaved - it happens - the test is can he move beyond that.

If you can do it your relationship will be stronger than ever.

good luck

It was his money not mine, out of his salary
Do you get your own money? What does that get spent on?

I never understand split finances when you're a family unit. He may have earned it but if the £500 is diverted away from being used for the family and you and then children are left to struggle that's not on.

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 10:22:11

We did discuss it, he doesn't do this often tbh, go out that is so it was deemed acceptable that he goes with his best mate on a night out but I didn't think they would be quite so reckless. I was pissed off when he told me he got a good deal on a hotel then I saw it was a 4* one confused

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 10:24:35

All his salary goes on the bills, mortgage, cars etc my savings cover food, household and day to day stuff.

AnyFucker Tue 13-Nov-12 10:31:58

Your thread title is wrong

It should read "how the hell did I find myself married to a disrespectful twat like this?"

If your answer is to go and watch Daniel Craig at the cinema as "revenge" you have bigger problems than a husband that uses "his" money to croon to his hard on, whilst you soldier on scrimping and saving.

You don't want to "blow your lid" ? Why not ? That sounds like a perfectly reasonable response to being treated like shit, to me.

mrskeithrichards Tue 13-Nov-12 10:33:48

Your using savings to feed the family but he's got enough disposable income for jollies like this?

How much is he left with after paying what he pays?

BobblyGussets Tue 13-Nov-12 10:38:27

He "doesn't do this often"? It would be the first and last time any "partner" of mine did that.
How is he with you generally? Is he a hands on father? Does he get back from working away and give you a rest from the childcare of a weekend? I hope so OP. He really needs to have some amazing reedeming qualities apart from being a good father. he needs to be a good partner and this behaviour is not indicative of this.

AnyFucker Tue 13-Nov-12 10:39:57

This was not a "belated stag do"

That is a complete contradiction in terms

this was an excuse to spend money he shouldn't be spending on getting his rocks off using other women's bodies

and you are afraid to "blow your lid" for some reason ?

choceyes Tue 13-Nov-12 10:46:17

Completely agree with AF. This would be a deal breaker for me actually. I would be beyond livid at the whole situation. All this is just unbelievable to me, that there exists women who would put up with this shit. Taking revenge by watching Daniel Craig. Yep totally on the same level hmm

DaveMccave Tue 13-Nov-12 10:47:23

I'm not sure why you find it funny that he'd rather waste money exploiting women via sexual objectification instead of providing for his family.

A lot of women like to express that they are cool with their partners watching explicit porn or paying for the occasional lap dance because, I don't know? By not being a prude they think it's empowering or liberal or something, but have you actually researched the sex industry? It's disgusting, and sexist and horrific, and I couldn't accept a partner that enjoyed such activities. Particularly one that felt he didn't have to justify it. Id there was equality in lap dancing and porn, then I'd feel entirely different about it, but it's not, and I don't. I wouldn't be taking him back.

ChicMama25 Tue 13-Nov-12 10:48:55

Dealbreaker. Your dh does not respect you. Or these women. Or any women. YANBU. IMO that's almost cheating. I have friends who used to dance at uni and they would agree with me. It's gross.

I would be devastated and furious if a man of mine had done this. Beyond words.

I ended my second marriage for far, far less than this.

Kitsilano Tue 13-Nov-12 10:56:45

Sounds like a right charmer. Not.

His behaviour is all entirely consistent, Charbon's got it spot on. He doesn't respect women generally, he certainly doesn't respect you - hence denying even your right to question his behaviour, and he would appear to care more for the chance to have boobs wiggled in his face than buying his children Christmas presents or taking a family holiday.

What a loser.

And PLEASE dont delude yourself that going to watch a movie even STARTS to consitute "getting your own back".

WilsonFrickett Tue 13-Nov-12 11:02:19

I particularly 'enjoy' the detail that the other man didn't feel he could have a stag do because his then financee was pg, but now she's presumably had a DC it's now fine to go and pay to see naked women. That's real nice hmm

The are both twats. He doesn't respect you or prioritise your family's needs. And they both think that paying for sexual gratification is a Good Thing.

Deal breaker for me I'm afraid.

fluffyraggies Tue 13-Nov-12 11:04:56

OP, he's really taken the piss sad I'm sorry.

You have every right to be upset with him about this.Weather it's the lapdancing or the money spending or the not wanting to discuss it or all 3.

It's horrible when you have to face the fact that your DH is behaving like shit to you. I wouldn't be able to find a funny side to this. A ((hug)) for you. Carry on with this thread, and don't shrug and let this go. This is a big deal IMO, and you shouldn't sweep it under the carpet.

HullyEastergully Tue 13-Nov-12 11:05:37

ARE YOU RAVING MAD?

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 11:13:40

I made my opinion on lap dancing clear in my op, I'm certainly not endorsing it. I am not a doormat, rather the opposite actually but in tandem do not dictate or control what my dh does. It was his choice to go and spend our cash on lap dancers, and I wholeheartedly feel that was a disrespectful decision towards me and our children.

EscapeInTheCity Tue 13-Nov-12 11:17:14

i think he knows he is prat and that's why he said 'he didn't have to explain himself'. How on earth can you explain it's OK to spend £500 in one night out and then leave your DW try and save money somewhere for xmas presents and take a loan for unexpected outgoings?

And OP, that's not 'his' money he spent, it's YOUR SHARED money.

EscapeInTheCity Tue 13-Nov-12 11:18:08

And how is it Ok for your DH to do something he knows you completely disapprove off?

fluffyraggies Tue 13-Nov-12 11:18:11

Of course OP. No one has the right to tell you you have to be angry about the lap dancing side of it.

Everyone is unanimous about the fact that it most def. was a disrespectful decision towards you and your children for whatever reason.

What will you do?

Lovecat Tue 13-Nov-12 11:20:16

Hate to say it but I'm wondering if the friend even went with him - it seems so contradictory that anyone would put off a stag do because their fiancee was pg, but then when the baby was actually there feel they were free to go out on the (expensive and exploitative) piss?

As for his 'did not have to explain himself to me' - total dealbreaker. Does he often get defensive when called out on his behaviour?

YerMaw1989 Tue 13-Nov-12 11:22:13

Everyone has their own limits,

to me the fact he had a 'special dance' I assume that means private? with a lapdancer whilst you were at home looking after his children?.
No fucking way, complete deal breaker to me.

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 11:24:57

Well, give him some space to reflect on it, he knows I'm not happy. I'm going out this weekend and am then on a course for 2 days so won't see too much of him, guess I'll see what hisvattitude is this weekend, if its a fuck you attitude then there are bigger issues to consider, if he is prepared to listen and sees my pov then perhaps we can have a grown up discussion about it.

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 11:26:50

Oh they were def together. His mate had cancer last year, it was a big deal that they were going out for the first time in a long time.

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 11:28:52

Hate to sound naive but in a lap dancing club he said they had 'lap dances' but his bf went off in a VIP room for 1/2 hr and ge was pissed off that he left him at the bar. Do they ever do anything else in a lap dancing club or is it strictly 'dances' ?

topknob Tue 13-Nov-12 11:29:34

VIP room hmm why ?

fluffyraggies Tue 13-Nov-12 11:30:23

That sounds like a plan, OP.

It's probably how i'd handle it, tbh. (rightly or wrongly)

I think you really do need a proper discussion about this. I would echo the question - is he usually quite defensive when he's in the wrong? My DH is. It can take a day or two before we can talk properly about stuff sometimes.

fluffyraggies Tue 13-Nov-12 11:31:39

X posts.

I think it depends on the club as to what happens in a VIP room.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 13-Nov-12 11:31:43

Plim only really dodgy ones do.

Where I live there are two lap dancing clubs in the city centre where the bouncers are inclined to break your arms and legs if you even look remotely tempted to actually touch the women.

I think private dances can go on for a while though.

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 11:33:14

Not sure, what do they do in a VIP room in a lap dancing club? blushangryhmm

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 11:34:00

Sorry x post again

YerMaw1989 Tue 13-Nov-12 11:35:00

your plan sounds good OP.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 13-Nov-12 11:36:57

I think they just dance for that one bloke. In some places they might take their clothes off during dance and so on. They usually have cameras with security watching though.

Lap dancers aren't prostitutes (although some may be outside of their work in the clubs) but clubs will get shut down if they allow sex to be bought on their premises. That's why brothels are always secret.

ChicMama25 Tue 13-Nov-12 11:37:34

They are not allowed to do anything more than dancing and most clubs will adhere strictly to this and fire girls that 'do extras'. But I will say that in a VIP room dancing will probably involve being draped all over your dh stark naked sitting on him etc with their naked fanjos touching his clothes

ChicMama25 Tue 13-Nov-12 11:40:32

Sorry just saw it was his friend not him who went to the VIP room. Private dances can also be like this depends what the clubs rules are about taking knickers off or not.

OwlLady Tue 13-Nov-12 11:42:06

he sounds very immature sad

I once watched a documentary on channel 4 about the girls that work there and some of them were physically sick before and after performing for men and so many of them were so vulnerable. It makes me very sad.

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 11:44:14

Puke

Numberlock Tue 13-Nov-12 11:46:45

he said they had 'lap dances' but his bf went off in a VIP room for 1/2 hr

Do you believe that? I don't.

snuffaluffagus Tue 13-Nov-12 11:52:19

Depends on the type of lapdancing club... Either way, eww. I'd be beyond furious in your position, especially as he said you couldn't afford a holiday. Outrageous behaviour.

garlicbaguette Tue 13-Nov-12 11:55:22

The replies to your question about the VIP room are repeating what clubs themselves say. A half-hour 'private dance' (a dance is 3 minutes) is very likely to have been sexual services.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Tue 13-Nov-12 11:56:26

What AnyFucker said.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 13-Nov-12 11:59:37

garlicbaguette not in the more reputable clubs it doesn't.

These clubs get random visits front the police to ensure no sex is being bought on the premises.

Chubfuddler Tue 13-Nov-12 12:00:12

I think he's trying to make out that his mate was worse than him. I don't believe that for a moment, they were hand in glove in this.

Leaving aside whether or not your husband has cheated on you with a lap dancer, what about the money? Does he even begin to understand that what he did was not ok? I mean what conversations were had between you in dcs ce of this weekend away? Did you know he was playing flash Harry and funding the whole thing?

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 12:02:28

Can I say the name of the club on here?

fluffyraggies Tue 13-Nov-12 12:04:56

Say it and see what happens grin

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Tue 13-Nov-12 12:05:14

I wouldn't OP, no.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 13-Nov-12 12:05:38

I don't see why not Plim. People talk about all sorts of places on MN after all.

I really don't think everyone who is insinuating your DH cheated on you are being very helpful here. They are projecting their own dislike of lap dancing clubs.

ChicMama25 Tue 13-Nov-12 12:09:45

Whether you consider it cheating is of course up to you. I don't think if it was a reputable club that there would have been any rule breaking in terms of more stuff happening. So I disagree with garlic baguette. But personally, I think the line between another woman sitting/writhing naked on my dh's lap and "sexual
services" is very very thin / non existent

fluffyraggies Tue 13-Nov-12 12:09:55

If you say it and it's against rules, the post will just get deleted. No biggy.

fluffyraggies Tue 13-Nov-12 12:10:49

Agree with chicmama, totally.

Chubfuddler Tue 13-Nov-12 12:11:32

Indeed. A lap dance is a sexual service. It's not ballet is it?

ChicMama25 Tue 13-Nov-12 12:11:35

And of course he should not have been spending money on decadent nights out when you are skint and have DCs this is disrespectful in its own right and you have every right to be annoyed

OwlLady Tue 13-Nov-12 12:12:41

I always think would these men be quite happy for their wives to pay some random bloke to rub their penis over their dress in tescos toilets, after visiting the booze aisle to buy merlot

I imagine not

garlicbaguette Tue 13-Nov-12 12:14:24

I agree with chicmama, too. Private dances may include two women having sex with each other (oral, fingers), almost certainly feature full nudity and frequently involve the dancer rubbing her breasts & genitals against the man's face and crotch.

ChicMama25 Tue 13-Nov-12 12:16:32

plim I think you should ask your dh what OwlLady said... Well put! And of course with family money..

fluffyraggies Tue 13-Nov-12 12:17:42

Even in reputable clubs you're going to get more than just the same 'dance' the girls are doing in the main club or there aint much point in paying the extra.

ChicMama25 Tue 13-Nov-12 12:18:25

garlicbaguette is right about the private dances content this includes non VIP

DappyHays Tue 13-Nov-12 12:50:50

Urgh, just remembering the very fishy smelling jeans of my ex the day after he'd been to a lapdancing club. That was when I realised they got their fannies out during the private dances.

fluffyraggies Tue 13-Nov-12 12:53:15

sad

You ok OP?

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 13:05:01

Just bleaching jeans

fluffyraggies Tue 13-Nov-12 13:10:55

Right sad

brewthanks

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 13:13:37

wine!

Charbon Tue 13-Nov-12 13:22:26

I hope that's another of your defence mechanism jokes plim because I'm guessing your partner wouldn't be washing semen off your jeans if you'd done similar.

Regrettably in many clubs, sex is paid for in VIP rooms. Some lapdancers are indeed prostituted women and it is by no means unusual for dancers to make further private arrangements with patrons, which take place off the premises at hotels.

I'm wondering whether you might find it helpful to start a thread in Relationships because it is so sad to read about a woman who is making these trade-offs in her relationship.

AnyFucker Tue 13-Nov-12 13:50:25

I think it is another woman's (possibly plural) vaginal secretions she is jokingly and metaphorically washing off her husband's jeans, not semen sad

Charbon Tue 13-Nov-12 13:54:59

Yes I understood that. I was pointing out that if plim had paid for her own private dance and a man had left a deposit on her jeans, I couldn't imagine her husband washing them for her.

AnyFucker Tue 13-Nov-12 14:03:12

Ah, I get it. Fucking awful whichever way you look at it.

JustFabulous Tue 13-Nov-12 14:27:06

"HE doesn't have to explain himself to you" is the killer bit for me. What about explaining to the baby when there is no money for nappies and milk or the older child who can't have a warm winter coat.

The fucking off and having semi naked or naked women dance in front of him is bad enough, the retort that he doesn't have to explain himself is definitely beyond acceptable. I think I would be kicking him out. Lack of respect, lack of maturity, lack of reality, lack of consideration. I think you get the picture.

Darkesteyes Tue 13-Nov-12 17:06:07

I disagree with the posters who say a lap dancing club is "par for the course" on a stag night. Why are so many women resigning themselves to putting up with this fact.
I couldnt be with someone who even went to one of these places in the first place.
Do you have a daughter OP. Would your H be happy for her to be a lap dancer when shes older or would his hypocrisy stop her!
Those girls in that club are someones young daughter too.
And i bet OP that you are the one scrimping for Chrtistmas now too. Beans on toast for your H i think. Which he could cook himself from now on. I could NOT bring myself to sleep with a man who i knew had been to one of these clubs. Some people might see that as an over reaction but thats the way id feel even if he hadnt had a private dance. YOUR H HAD 4 OF THEM

Sallyingforth Tue 13-Nov-12 17:11:03

I don't want to stir things up, but in your position OP I's want to know if this is how he entertains himself when he's 'home' at weekends, what does he get up to when he's working away during the week?

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 13-Nov-12 17:20:54

You don't want to stir things and yet you are doing exactly that.

Nice.

AnyFucker Tue 13-Nov-12 17:26:59

It's a perfectly valid question that op should be asking herself. I certainly would be.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 13-Nov-12 17:30:47

Depends on how much going to a lap dancing club actually bothers a person really.

Just because half of you,quite shockingly,believe it is a deal breaker and would lead to no trust etc,doesn't actually mean OP feels the same.

StaceeJaxx Tue 13-Nov-12 17:36:05

You know what I would do, (and I realise this is just my opinion). I would book a date with a male escort, tell him that you've booked it (out of the family money obviously). Get dolled up to the nines, leave the kids with him, go on the date with the escort. Then when I got back I would LTB.

GhostShip Tue 13-Nov-12 17:36:14

I am extremely open about things like lap dancers and stuff, I used to be a page 3 model and have openly defended it on this website, so I'm not against women dancing and flashing their bits.

I am against my partner ogling at said bits whilst he is my partner. Its not that I don't trust him, I know he's hardly going to shag them, it's just disrespectful to me. And I don't know why any woman says 'oh its just part of a stag do isnt it'. Well no. Just because people accept it doesn't mean its right. The whole point of these places are to make money from men (sometimes women) getting turned on my the female body. Why would your partner who's supposed to love you, want to go and get turned on by someone else. It just seems wrong to me.

That in itself would be the dealbreaker.

Never mind the spending of money that we havent got.

OP, he's a disgrace,

GhostShip Tue 13-Nov-12 17:36:58

by not my*

ChicMama25 Tue 13-Nov-12 17:37:38

Even if the op isn't bothered about the lap dancing in principle the point is here that her dh spent money they didn't have on crass entertainment a hotel and booze for him and his mates then says he doesn't have to explain himself?! The trust issue can be a separate thing if you want it to, but if you weren't upset about the private dances then why the title of this thread?

ChicMama25 Tue 13-Nov-12 17:38:38

GhostShip has hit the nail on the head

Xales Tue 13-Nov-12 17:43:44

Personally if you are paying for his food etc out of your savings while he has enough to blow on shit like this he can pay for his own food.

IAMU Tue 13-Nov-12 17:54:41

GhostShip, well said.

If my DP did that, I would be kicking his pathetic arse so hard out the door followed by a binbag of his clothes.

Joiyuk Tue 13-Nov-12 18:32:35

My DH is the sole provider for us ATM due to us moving to another country. I am unable to work due to visa restrictions, so have no money of my own. When we got married he didn't even have a stag/bachelor party. He didn't resent me for this, and hasn't ever asked if he could have a belated one. I often tease him saying he has missed out on a stripper, to which he replies he would rather I give him a lapdance (dirty sod!). I think it's not only disrespectful and hurtful for your H to do this to you, but it casts a worrying shadow on the rest of your relationship. Him having his 'own money' as he sees it is so wrong. A man with a family has more responsibilities to provide for that family. He clearly sees that he 'deserves' to do what he wants because he wants to. No other reason. It's childish behaviour, and he needs to grow up. I hope he sees he is in the wrong before he destroys your relationship. Big hugs to you xxxx

Wheresmypopcorn Tue 13-Nov-12 18:36:49

Good grief, he is missing a sensitivity chip. Mind you, your pregnancy/post birth hormones are obviously way lower than mine were as you are not taking it out on him but writing this post.

LetsFaceTheMusicAndDance Tue 13-Nov-12 18:49:27

Oh poor you, Op. sad
Getting my crystal ball out, I'd say that unless he sorts himself out, you won't be together in 10 years time.
And even if you are, you won't be happy.

<picks up crystal ball and lamps him round the head with it>

definately agree with Ghostship, for me just the lapdancing would be a deal breaker let alone the money and attitude!

BelaLugosisShed Tue 13-Nov-12 19:00:23

"Just because half of you, quite shockingly, believe it is a deal breaker "
Why is that shocking?
Strange as it may seem to you, very many women ( quite rightly) believe that their partner partaking in the sex trade and buying sexual services, is a deal breaker.

Reasons one might think it was a deal-breaker

1. Because if I showed my norks to random strangers for money, DH would consider it a deal-breaker. Why is it OK the other way around?
2. Because the 'industry' is pretty exploitative in areas and you don't know where your money is going.
3. Because you believe that women should be treated with respect, not like pieces of meat.
4. Because you told your OH it was a deal-breaker.
5. Because private dances are only not cheating because someone is paying (how odd is that?). If DH went to a friends house and asked her to strip for him and dance around, I would consider that cheating. Why is it not solely because money has changed hands.
6. Yuk.
7. Any other reason...

soverylucky Tue 13-Nov-12 20:01:52

Why a married father of three wants to spend time in a lapdancing club in the first place puzzles me. To find out that he had not one but four private dances disgusts me. The added information that he spent money that his own wife and children NEED on such activities astounds me.

Have respect for yourself and your family op. I am not saying leave him but my god, he needs to acknowledge how much of an utter idiot he has been and apologise.

lovelyladuree Tue 13-Nov-12 21:34:37

So he works away from home to provide for his family. It was his mate's stag do. It was money he saved up from last year. What is the problem here?

Chubfuddler Tue 13-Nov-12 21:38:54

I had absolutely no idea working to provide for your family entitled one to paid sexual services from strangers. How simple marvellous. Perhaps MN could set up a members discount.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 13-Nov-12 21:47:38

Bela I personally find it shocking that anyone would consider it a deal breaker. I'd laugh at my OH if he went to one. I'd laugh at any man who went to one and honestly believed those women dancing looked at them with any more desire than a checkout cashier looks at the average customer.

I know girls who've danced in these kinds of clubs. They felt that they were "exploiting the men actually".

I myself have never danced in one.

In this particular situation,surely it's the fact he spent "his money" as he liked and feel his wife,the OP has no right to be angry. £500 is not exactly a small sum of money! I'd go bonkers about the money and the fact he was obviously being a selfish arse.

lovebunny Tue 13-Nov-12 21:48:31

ltb. don't wait for his explanation.

Darkesteyes Tue 13-Nov-12 21:58:53

Brilliant post Mrs TerryPrattchet. Agree with every word.

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 22:22:09

Flaming eck thanks everyone for your posts. I'm not going to leave him over this but it has made me question his priorities. It's the money that has upset me, but as I said originally I also don't love the fact he went to a lap dancing club and actually chose to pay for dances. It is a bit grotty, lewd and I guess the one thing that has really struck me is that it's really bloody immature.

So, does everyone on here know whether their dh's watch porn? Would you all react in a similar way if they did as you have mentioned the exploitation in the sex industry? I'm genuinely interested to know whether you all see it as one and the same?

ChicMama25 Tue 13-Nov-12 22:25:10

It is not the same but it is bad and I would feel betrayed. It depends on the type content etc but most of it is so super degrading to women.

ChicMama25 Tue 13-Nov-12 22:25:49

Ps my dh understands this

AThingInYourLife Tue 13-Nov-12 22:27:48

I would not have married a man who had the habit of masturbating to photos or videos of women being abused and demeaned.

plim Tue 13-Nov-12 22:30:36

Btw this has nothing to do with the dh, I'm just interested.

garlicbaguette Wed 14-Nov-12 00:22:59

I used to be okay about porn and lapdancing. I'm not any more. I've joined the dealbreaker camp. Before I made my mind up completely, I went off and found out all the information I'd been trying not to think about - thought about it, considered what 'objectification' really means, and all of a sudden it seemed obvious.

MrsTP's fifth point is unarguable, imo. You would probably be unhappy to come home and find your best mate wriggling around, naked, on your partner's lap. I can't see how it's any difference when a stranger does it.

Charbon Wed 14-Nov-12 00:42:18

It's an expectation for both of us in our relationship that neither of us is consumers of the sex industry (including porn), plim. My partner would be just as repulsed by my patronage of it as I would be by his. Then again it would be mightily strange if this happened given all our political activity and work in this area!

Even if you remove the compelling political arguments from the picture, point 5 in Terry Pratchett's post is extremely powerful. This sexual experience is not lessened by it being paid for in a club - it could just as easily have been a front room in a house. One of the problems with lap dancing clubs is that their existence has normalised punters paying for sexual entertainment and services and in an extraordinary feat of propoganda, a generation of intelligent people have accepted their existence and fallen for the lies the owners tell in order to keep their licences. If people really knew what goes on in a lot of clubs, I doubt that they'd normalise it quite so much.

SomersetONeil Wed 14-Nov-12 08:43:14

"I am against my partner ogling at said bits whilst he is my partner. Its not that I don't trust him, I know he's hardly going to shag them, it's just disrespectful to me."

GhostShip, I really don't understand the inherent hypocrisy of your stance at all.

Why is it OK for you, as a Page 3 model to expose your naked breasts to women's boyfriends and husbands willy nilly, but it's not OK for your partner to look at other women's? confused

Either it's OK, or it's not. If you're not happy with your bloke looking, then how can you condone doing it? Who exactly is the naked women market, if not blokes; many of whom have partners?

Am I massively missing something here...?

SomersetONeil Wed 14-Nov-12 08:49:50

...who is the 'naked women' market for?

anklebitersmum Wed 14-Nov-12 08:49:50

Yup, Pratchett is 'on the money' for me.

I will not have porn of any description in my house-in exactly the same way as DH does not expect to come home and find me amusing myself while the milkman (or anyone else for that matter) prances around waggling his bits suggestively <shudder>

We agreed some years ago that if something wasn't good for the gander then it certainly wasn't happening for the goose either-right down to certain nightclubs/pubs and acceptable times to roll home.

Besides, we have two daughters. They're someones daughter you know.

SundaeGirl Wed 14-Nov-12 08:57:30

Plim, before you speak to your DH again do you think it would be worth finding out exactly how much he spent?

You mention further up the thread that DH is away for three days a week. If my DH had spent this kind of money in a blow out, I'd want to know if that attitude was also meaning a loosening of purse strings when I wasn't around.

WilsonFrickett Wed 14-Nov-12 09:29:06

One of the problems with lap dancing clubs is that their existence has normalised punters paying for sexual entertainment and services and in an extraordinary feat of propoganda, a generation of intelligent people have accepted their existence

This ^^ I used to be a lot more laissez-faire about porn if I'm being honest, but this is so true. Even if you are sure that the piece of porn you're watching has not exploited anyone (and how can you be sure?), you can bet your bottom dollar that the next piece does. Soft porn and lapdancing clubs are the tip of the iceberg of an extremely dark and murky industry which demeans and degrades and exploits and abuses women (and men tbh) so I and DH don't participate in it at all. We've agreed this and it would definitely be a dealbreaker if DH was using porn too.

fluffyraggies Wed 14-Nov-12 09:39:46

Morning OP.

Lap dancing clubs - The only time i'd let this go is if he was with a group of guys on a stag do and they all went in and he'd be left out if he didn't go in too. We've discussed this. I said i'd still be very upset though. He said that even in that situation (if he was still sober enough to think) he probably wouldn't bother going in anyway as from his past experiences he's found its seriously not worth the money ( he is a tight bugger grin). I said i'd be unable to forgive a private dance.

Private dance - well, given the above it'd be a deal breaker probably. It would eat away at me even if i decided to try to forgive.

Porn - more complicated. IF he was watching it regularly by himself, IF he was replacing me with it in any way, IF he was spending money on it or lying about it ... if any of these things were happening i'd be very peed off. Very. As it is he tells me if there's porn being hoiked about that day on the lads phones at his work and we have a laugh/yuk about it. It's me that'll sometimes suggest a bit of porn when we're very drunk together.

Alisvolatpropiis Wed 14-Nov-12 10:21:20

Porn doesn't bother me in the slightest OP. Buf then not does lap dancing in and of itself.

GhostShip Wed 14-Nov-12 13:13:22

Somerset one is physical, one isn't. Page 3 isn't personal. Thousands see it. A woman dancing on your lap and you handing her money is completely different.

plim Wed 14-Nov-12 13:45:11

That's interesting because dh says he doesn't like porn particularly, I think they perhaps got very pissed and ended up in a lap dancing club. Checked bank balance and he spent around 280 quid but he does also have a creit card but doubt he used that.

AnyFucker Wed 14-Nov-12 14:30:56

It seems your H prefers his sex industry consumerism in the flesh then ?

SomersetONeil Wed 14-Nov-12 20:40:27

"Page 3 isn't personal. Thousands see it. A woman dancing on your lap and you handing her money is completely different."

OK.

<sits on hands>

GhostShip Wed 14-Nov-12 20:46:17

Yes you sit on those hands because there's no point trying to argue with me, its my opinion.

Alisvolatpropiis Wed 14-Nov-12 20:55:41

But it's still selling sex is it not Ghostship?

Different ends of the same business. Seems rather hypocritical to be okay with your contribution but not others.

GhostShip Wed 14-Nov-12 21:04:01

I have no problem with selling sex, I don't think thats something Ive ever said is it? It's a womans prerogative if she wants to use her body in such a way.

My problem is a man with a partner who he's suppose to love, buying sex.

The lap dancer isn't the problem here, it's the husband.

SomersetONeil Wed 14-Nov-12 21:06:44

I'm just loving the notion that they're 'completely different'. grin

Alligators and lemons are completely different. The only way Page 3 breasts and lap dancers are 'completely different' is if you need to justify why one is perfectly OK and one isn't.

I have to say, I now find your pro-Page 3 stance completely incredible (as in, has no credibility) now that we know you (of all people!) would not stand for your partner ogling other naked women. Dress it up any which way you need to, your stance is hypocritical.

<fails miserably at sitting on hands>

Alisvolatpropiis Wed 14-Nov-12 21:17:08

But Ghostship some women have a real issue with page 3 and think their husband shouldn't be ogling any other woman's breasts.

So...how is it different to lap dancing?

Neither bother me in the slightest. But they bother a great many women.

GhostShip Wed 14-Nov-12 21:27:20

Alis - so? Your point is? They may have, they're entitled to have that opinion. If that's what they believe then their husbands shouldn't do it.

But it seems like you're trying to say I'm somewhat at fault here. So because I've posed nude, I should accept that my partner can have a lap dance? Should I also accept being cheated on somerset

If you want to group them together, It is neither mine or the lap dancers fault that their husbands want to look at another woman.

GhostShip Wed 14-Nov-12 21:29:28

Just to reiterate - I don't see anything wrong with a single man doing those things. But a man who has a partner shouldn't. He should love and respect his wife, not look and pay another woman.

So how on earth am I being hypocritical? Oh but I forget, it's always the woman to blame in these situations

SomersetONeil Wed 14-Nov-12 22:06:49

But you can't control who views what - there isn't a filter for single men and partnered men, is there?

You absolutely should not accept anything you don't want to accept - I very much agree with the issue you have with not wanting your partner to have a LD, etc. You're very much joining the dots incorrectly by saying 'so because I've posed nude, I should accept that my partner can have a lap dance'.

It IS hypocritical to put yourself out there to be viewed by all; single men and partnered men, but then to have a problem with your man doing just that. I don't see how you can't see that?!

Can you not understand why some women have an issue with Page 3?

Putting aside the wider impact on womankind/objectification, etc, etc (which is obviously where I think the bigger problem lies)... Can you not see that some women don't really like their partners looking at other women's naked breasts over their cereal or on the tube? Is it the same thing as an actual lapdance? No. But it's on the exact same continuum. To deny this makes you look, I'm sorry, but a bit head-in-the-sand silly.

You understand why you don't want your partner to go to a LDC and have a dance, but you refuse to see why another woman might not appreciate her partner ogling Page 3. confused

AnyFucker Wed 14-Nov-12 22:12:57

To be fair, ghostship is saying she feels it is only acceptable for single men to be a consumer of the sex trade

Although what I fail to understand is what happens to a man once he is no longer single that changes him from a misogynistic arsehole and disrespectful objectifier of women into a paragon of partnered virtue ?

Is there a switch in his head somewhere ? That would be handy woundn't it, for all the women that find out there is no such fucking thing but not until they are in committed relationships (and dc in the mix) with their own personal disrespecter of women

SomersetONeil Wed 14-Nov-12 22:27:08

But The Sun isn't only bought by single men, is it...?

And in any case, yeah, the rest of what you said AF...

AnyFucker Wed 14-Nov-12 22:34:15

SON, with respect lovey, although i agree with you to a certain extent, i think you are straying a little bit into women-blaming territory with ghostship ( I shall desist from calling you a victim by citing "victim blaming" ghostship although the mindset is the same)

I blame the punters. If there wasn't a demand, there wouldn't be a supply.

GhostShip Wed 14-Nov-12 22:44:42

Somerset where on earth have I said I don't accept why a woman doesn't want their partners looking at page 3? Even in the page 3 thread I said I understand why women don't like it!

It isn't hypocritical at all and in what you're saying you're trying to pass the blame into the woman in question.
I've posed naked before I got with DP. I wouldn't do it now, and he wouldn't ogle other women.

The fact that other womens partners have looked at my body isn't my fault, its the mens fault.

I'm not hypocritical at all, you're the one joining dots were there isn't any.

GhostShip Wed 14-Nov-12 22:46:07

Thankyou Anyfucker for explaining what I mean.

I won't comment on the objectification thing because we've had all that before grin

AnyFucker Wed 14-Nov-12 22:50:01

ghost I would actually be interested in your answer to the question I posed in my post at 22:12 since it was your particular situation that put the idea into my head

you don't have to answer though, you are under no obligation and this is neither my thread nor yours smile

Alisvolatpropiis Wed 14-Nov-12 22:53:24

I see where you are coming from now Ghost,having read your subsequent posts and AF's summary.

I wasn't intending to have a go,rather was seeking clarification on you stance. Which I got smile

GhostShip Wed 14-Nov-12 22:56:09

I don't think I could answer it to be fair anyfucker because I don't feel the same way as you do regarding the 'objectification' of women. I don't feel it's wrong for a man or woman to appreciate the opposite sex in that way, as long as they're single and hurting no-one.

I guess I'm lucky because my DP has never been interested in things like that, I've never met a man with as much respect for women as my DP. He didn't do it when he was single, and wouldn't do now either.

AnyFucker Wed 14-Nov-12 23:01:02

Ghost, you are not addressing my question, and are in fact sidestepping it. You say it's ok when a man is single but not when he is partnered. What happens to such a man to change his whole outlook and attitude ? It's a serious question, but I understand if you don't want to answer it. I am not talking about your man in particular here, btw, he sounds like a great guy.

Did you deliberately choose a man who wasn't a user of the sex industry then ?

AnyFucker Wed 14-Nov-12 23:02:18

I won't accept the answer "when he gets a ring on his finger" from anyone ok ? < hard stares all round >

GhostShip Wed 14-Nov-12 23:07:57

Sorry I wasn't deliberately not answering, I thought I had.

I'm not sure his outlook does change, I think it's more a matter of 'I've got a lovely woman at home I 1. Don't need to ogle and 2. Respect her' also, when you love someone you don't want to look elsewhere. The thought of looking at another mans body repulses me because I love my DP so much. (Sorry sad I know)

That's what I would like to think anyway. I'm sure a lot of men aren't like that.

And no, he is a good man in so many ways and was a good friend when I was in an abusive relationship

AnyFucker Wed 14-Nov-12 23:17:26

Many men who are users of the sex industry to this and to a more extensive degree (p*nters and other low lives) have a "lovely woman at home". They profess to love their wife whilst buying private dances and/or looking for extra marital sex on hook-up sites, putting that "lovely woman's" emotional and physical health at risk.

Some men will always want to "look elsewhere" just because they can.

Ghost the way you describe that fictional man whose outlook changes is a man with a classic madonna/whore attitude towards women. A man who compartmentalises women into 1)"lovely women" (his woman, and his mother, sister, daughter etc) and 2) women who deserve no respect or love, only for their bodies to be bought like something off the shelf at tesco.

Not nice thoughts, these.

YerMaw1989 Thu 15-Nov-12 12:16:58

I think Ghostship maybe referring more to a sense of moral duty/ respect? like I have to put my urge aside because I am no longer single. I know so many men don't put I think that's what she maybe referring to?.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now