To tell my dad its like hes stealing from me!

(125 Posts)
MagicLlama Sat 10-Nov-12 18:51:02

So basically dad lives with me in my house. He contributes to the mortgage and household bills (just in case thats relevant)

I have a savings account. In it goes the hit and miss CSA money I receive from DS2s dad. The idea with this account is that because its not guaranteed every month, I am trying not to depend on it for day to day expenses, and instead amd trying to save it up it to fund repairs that need doing around the house which is falling down around my ears. I was planning to save it up until Feb, which would then give me enough money to fix the hole in the roof. My dad knows this.

The card is kept in the safe upstairs because again if Ive easy access to it Im more likely to spend it.

3 weeks ago, dad was paid £300 via a cheque and asked me to change it for him. I was at work so told him to just grab the card, bank the chq withdraw the cash from the cashpoint, and put the card back.

Last Friday I noticed on online banking that the account was £300 less than I thought it should be. At first I though that the cheque banked for dad had bounced, but upon checking £300 cash had been withdrawn. Turns out dad had withdrawn the money to pay his blokes because hed got cashflow problems. He also reckoned that because theyd been doing stuff up here he was OK to take the money out. I was pissed off because hed done it without asking, but conceeded that as they had been working up on the stable yard I would cover the wages. I told him not to take money out of the account without speaking to me first because it wasnt OK.

So tonight I have again logged on to internet banking and discovered that yet again he has taken £230 out of the account in the last 3 days. Ive just yelled at him over the phone hes out and asked him what hes doing. His answer is that hed got no money in his account so he borrowed it, and was going to put it back when he collected some money from a job hes finished. It his head this makes it OK.

Dad is quite emotionally manipultive (I think unintentionally) and ive always been his support, and i struggle to stand up / go against him. Unfortunately my counselling has helped me see this but not yet got me into a position when Im able to do something about it.

Hes carrying the card around in his wallet, and I am fuming, absolutely fuming, I feel like hes stealing from me. I would never dream of just going into his wallet and helping myself to his money not matter how desperate I was without mentioning it first. I dont know how to explain to him that whats hes doing is just shit and wrong and to get him to listen and understand.

Even more annoying is mum told me this would happen, so I cant ask her for advice because shell just be pissed off with my dads shitness with money.

So WIBU to tell use the phrase stealing when I try and speak to him rationally later? If so, can anyone think of a better phrase I can use?

t0lk13n Sat 10-Nov-12 18:52:50

He is stealing from you...never give your pin to anyone...even family....this is why. Say you have lost it and ring the bank for a new one and a new pin!

NervousAt20 Sat 10-Nov-12 18:54:16

That's terrible, I would take the card out of his wallet and hide it somewhere else. It's disgusting that your dad thinks its okay to do this to you. I would want every penny back including the first £300 angry

ChunkyPickle Sat 10-Nov-12 18:55:19

No YANBU, he is stealing, and you need to get the cashcard back from him now.

GrimAndHumourless Sat 10-Nov-12 18:55:42

you need to ask him for the card back, if he won't give it up then cancel it with the bank

of course you need to change pin on it anyway, as your security has been willingly compromised by your letting your dad have pin and card

no chance of you getting that money back legally from him either, sorry

ChunkyPickle Sat 10-Nov-12 18:55:51

In fact, yes, you don't even need to get the card back, just ring them up right now and tell them you need a new pin and card.

hygienequeen Sat 10-Nov-12 18:55:59

Get your card back ! he has no right, and i would be FUMING ! Failing that as you don't use the account (usually) get your card stopped and a new one sent to you (to hide !!)

Jins Sat 10-Nov-12 18:56:23

Get the card cancelled ASAP.

fatcuntroller Sat 10-Nov-12 18:56:56

Phone the bank and get your card cancelled NOW before he takes any more. Just tell them you've lost it and they will send you a new one.

addictedisback Sat 10-Nov-12 18:57:16

It's not like stealing it is stealing and as its money from dc dad its stealimg from the dc

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Sat 10-Nov-12 18:58:20

If talking to him and coming to a reasonable conclusion is going to be hard and likely to take some time, then you need to phone the bank and report the card as lost or stolen. You can request a new card if you have suspicions that your account security has been compromised, and they should give you a new one, with a new PIN number if you ask for it.

You need to do something to protect yourself financially now, before you try and sort out the issues with your Father.

addictedisback Sat 10-Nov-12 19:00:05

As well as geiing a new card and pin make sure you get the old ome blocked and change the code on the safe.

It IS stealing. Call the bank and tell them your card has been lost and you need it cancelled ASAP, you will get a new card and pin sent out.

Is your safe a key or a code? If it's a code change it, if it's a key I'd replace the safe/lock.

Why is he living with you and not in his own place?

AThingInYourLife Sat 10-Nov-12 19:01:37

He is stealing from you.

Cancel the card.

Then ask the thieving bastard to move out.

ddubsgirl Sat 10-Nov-12 19:02:25

i would report the card stolen and get it all changed

MyLastDuchess Sat 10-Nov-12 19:09:09

Like everyone else, my first thought was that you need to cancel the card. It's easy enough to do.

Do that before you speak to him; you obviously cannot trust him with the card as he is using it to steal from you!

maddening Sat 10-Nov-12 19:11:32

Stop the card and tell him the card is stopped if you feel kind.

PoppadomPreach Sat 10-Nov-12 19:15:00

Absolutely agree with all of the above.

It is stealing.

Cancel the card and get a new one.

StuntGirl Sat 10-Nov-12 19:20:38

Agree with everything. It's stealing and he's being selfish, rude and manipulative.

Cancel the card and get a new one. Change the code on the safe. Keep the bank card safe and don't tell him the new PIN. And then you probably need to ask him to leave. He sounds like an absolute twat.

ChasedByBees Sat 10-Nov-12 19:21:08

It is stealing, it's not just 'like' stealing. He is really on some weird power trip thing if he thinks he has the right to take your cash card and use it as his own. I would demand your money back - all of it - and then get him out of your house.

Get the card cancelled. It's not 'like' stealing, it IS stealing.

Softlysoftly Sat 10-Nov-12 19:23:20

Cancel the card.

Talk to your father, only you know if he is going to give the money back or not, he could see it as not a problem if he fully intends to return it, it's not right but some people do think like that.

I wouldn't use the term stealing it won't help matters, just say that you kept the account separate for a very good reason, have ordered a new card and not to use that one as the bank will assume he has stolen it and any money withdrawn, say you want the money back by x date as it is basically a grandfather taking from his grandson and feels very wrong.

Walk away, assume he will give it back, when/if you don't get the money on x date then you call him a thief and chuck him out.

pigletmania Sat 10-Nov-12 19:26:40

Yes it's stealing, I would cancel the card, even if he gives you it bac, he has your details and could do it again

MammaTJ Sat 10-Nov-12 19:29:25

I would report the card stolen!!

midseasonsale Sat 10-Nov-12 19:32:21

Ring him now and tell him you are coming to collect the card. You need it. He can repay by cash or cheque via you. I think it is worth letting your mum know.

midseasonsale Sat 10-Nov-12 19:32:44

Or cancel the card. It is theft.

Doingakatereddy Sat 10-Nov-12 19:33:51

It's your call but obviously if your happy with DC going without £530 of support, roof not been mended then dont bother cancelling card.

You were warned, sort this out now

EuroShagmore Sat 10-Nov-12 19:35:46

You feel it's like stealing because it is stealing, pure and simple!

Cancel the card and get a new one sent. Don't tell him so he faces the embarrassment of having the card refused.

ImperialBlether Sat 10-Nov-12 19:36:24

Cancel the card.

Tell your mother.

Change the lock on the safe.

Make arrangements to live separately from your father. You could have a flatmate instead if you need the help for your mortgage.

B1ueberryMuffin Sat 10-Nov-12 19:39:00

I agree! He must think he owns you, and owns your money! he has no right.

WildWorld2004 Sat 10-Nov-12 20:03:25

Agree with everyone else. Cancel the card & kick him out as well. You dont steal from anyone especially not family.

whatsforyou Sat 10-Nov-12 20:14:21

I agree,it's not like stealing. It is stealing. I would also question that your dad is unintentionally manipulative. From what you have said I think he is very aware and I think that if you don't be very blunt about the fact this isn't acceptable then it will get worse. He will probably get very upset when you confront him. He's lost a good source of income after all!

whatsforyou Sat 10-Nov-12 20:17:45

I'm not sure I would tell my mum though. Having someone say I told you so and then banking it for ammo against him later isn't nice. I'm assuming your mum and dad are split up and am basing this on what my mum would do

ENormaSnob Sat 10-Nov-12 20:19:51

He is a lying thief.

Cancel the card.

Get the thieving cunt out of your home.

Like everyone has said - call up now and cancel the card. He'll keep on using it until you do.

Teabagtights Sat 10-Nov-12 20:27:18

Funking hell he is using it to cover his cash flow problems. It is theft. Cancel the card now FFs. He is taking the piss big time.

manticlimactic Sat 10-Nov-12 20:31:01

OP Did he bank the cheque? That's unclear.

I echo what everyone else said. I'd be fuming.

solittletimeandsomuchtodo Sat 10-Nov-12 20:37:24

It's sad when this is your parent. sad
I know from my own experience.
Cancel card.
Work out a payment plan and make sure he sticks to it. Don't wait for full amount it won't happen.

MagicLlama Sat 10-Nov-12 20:38:05

Hi everyone,

Sorry I disappeared .. phone call!

You are all right! It just seems so well harsh to tell him hes stealing off me IYSWIM? Years of living with him tells me he has the best of intentions with returning cash, it just never pans out because hes always in a mess and always juggling to make ends meet.

Yes to answer the questions, he lives with me following health problems. My parents have been seperated for ages. They manage to get on 99% of the time, but there a couple of flashpoints for my mum money being one

I keep trying to work out if I should ask him to leave, but I know he wont take it well, and tbh since the DSs dad walked away from them, hes the only real male figure in their lives and oh I dont know, I just feel stuck.

Ive always been the one to take his side, and the one to support him, and any conversation with him about anything, always ends up making me feel bad.

I think ill just cancel the card, I just need to stop it happening again - best way would be to give mum the card, as he wont dare ask her for any more money but then ill get the aggro off her!

cumfy Sat 10-Nov-12 20:42:46

Cancel the card.

What happened to the "cheque" ?

MagicLlama Sat 10-Nov-12 20:42:59

Sorry, yes he banked part of the amount for the original cash and part of it bounced. He was supposed to replace it, which to date he hasnt. Hes getting paid apparently on Monday from a large job and hes not paid me because he needs to fund the materials else he wont get paid, and then not only will he not be able to pay me, but not pay anything else either.

But then hes always like that, and Im quite sure on Monday that hell not be able to pay all of it because hell need some money to fund the next job and itll just go on.

MagicLlama Sat 10-Nov-12 20:44:55

And it ends up just not happening, and I dont have the energy to chase him about any of it anymore, and I just end up writing it off. Ive tried and tried to talk to him, but it just ends up as an arguement and then I feel guilty.

He keeps just laughing about us being like that family in "Bread" where all the money is pooled together, but I want some independance and I dont know how to make him understand. Im 30, not 13!

ChippingInLovesAutumn Sat 10-Nov-12 20:50:45

Have you cancelled the card yet?

Can you change the code on the safe?

How is he with mortgage/bills - does he pay his share on time or mess you about?

Work out exactly what he owes you, work out what you think he can repay weekly and tell him if it's not repaid in that time he will have to move out because you cannot fund him.

Sorry he's been such a twat, but sometimes we have to forgive the ones we love - simply because we love them... we just have to reduce the damage they can do (ie not give them bank cards in your case!!).

IvanaHumpalotCountDracula Sat 10-Nov-12 20:54:00

So he steals from his grand kids - nice!

Bogeyface Sat 10-Nov-12 20:57:36

You need to make it clear that he isnt stealing from you, but from your children, that might make all the difference in how he sees it.

Cancel the care NOW. As he knows that you are onto him, he may well take some more before you take the card off him.

As for asking him to leave, well thats up to you, but you are in an abusive relationship here. What would you say to someone who's husband was treating them like this?

Domestic abuse is abuse by one family member against another, it doesnt have to be husband to wife/wife to husband to count.

Softlysoftly Sat 10-Nov-12 21:00:38

Your last post makes it sound like this isn't the first time?

I change my post then - give him notice now. Don't give the card to your mum if you can't say no yourself them he is a bloody manipulator and you need rid.

whatsforyou Sat 10-Nov-12 21:06:30

I don't think it sounds like you want a major fall out with your dad OP and from my own experience I do understand this.
I do think though that if you are going to have a reasonably healthy relationship with him you are going to have to be honest with him that his behaviour is unacceptable.
Do you have to involve your mum? If you get a new card and pin then he can't use it. Again, from my own experience, if you and your dad can sort this out without involving her it might make it easier for you.

Bogeyface Sat 10-Nov-12 21:08:29

I agree that you shouldnt involve your mum, they are seperated so while she is your mum she isnt his wife (well ok, legally she is but emotionally she isnt). So she has no need to be involved in this.

Get a new card, or if you dont want to do that, take the card straight back and change the pin, that way he cant use it.

picnicbasketcase Sat 10-Nov-12 21:10:53

Cancel it as soon as you possibly can. Do not let him near your account in future.

MagicLlama Sat 10-Nov-12 21:14:04

whatsfor I suppose the real difficulty is my inability to learn from his past behaviour.

I know that he doesnt get why I dont like it.

I know that if I use the word stealing he will be aghast as I am sure he doesnt see it like that because his intention to return is there.

I know that any conversation with him will result in it being turned around into how much he does to help me, and how he doesnt have money to spend on himself because of everything

I know that if I point out that neither of us have any spare cash beyond this CSA which ive only been saving for the last 3 months because he persuaded me to let my brother secure money on the house that brother defaulted on then itll just spiral from there.

I know he will say he wont do it again, and I know he will and I know when he asks me and tells me he cant get around because he has no fuel, or he cant afford to eat, or he cant pay the blokes and then hell lose them because theyll go elsewhere and then hell have even less money and so on and so on and so on that ill give in.

The problem is me and my inability to deal with him. I know this. Im just too weak to do anything about it.

I dont even know why im on here asking really. Ive just had a shit day and to come in and see that im £300 down which I didnt know about just finished me off.

"I just end up writing it off"
So this is a regular occurrance then? How much in total, roughly?

DontmindifIdo Sat 10-Nov-12 21:16:12

It's not "like he's stealing from you" he is stealing from you.

Cancel the card right now. Tell him if he is getting paid on Monday you want the money back by Tuesday at the latest.

Then tell him you don't think it's working him living with you, you no longer trust him and would like him to leave. Lots of DC's father figure is a grandfather or uncle who doesn't live in the house. You need to limit his ability to take the piss.

Stealing from your own child is very, very low. As is that as it's CSA money he's stolen, he's actually stolen from his DGC.

If you need the help with the mortgage and bills, get a lodger.

LemonBreeland Sat 10-Nov-12 21:16:21

Cancel the card as soon as you can and tell him you want the money back or he is out on his ear.

MagicLlama Sat 10-Nov-12 21:16:41

Ive cancelled the card anyway now on the 24 hour number line thing. They are sending a new one out, and I might just ask my mum to hold onto it and tell her I lost it.

The only other thing which Im pondering is if I transfer it to an account without a card but a passbook which you have to go in for, you know the old style post office books. Can you even get those anymore? Because that way at least it has to be me that goes to get the money.

DontmindifIdo Sat 10-Nov-12 21:19:13

Just seen your next message - you need to get this man out of your life. If you can get your money back first, then great. If he doesn't give you the money by Tuesday you really know he does'nt actully care, he does'nt actually think you have a right to security, he does'nt think it matters that he's making his DGC's lives worse.

Now you need to toughen up and cut him out, or at least throw him out, let me put it this way, this man is stealing from your DCs, who are more important, them or him? He's making their lives worse to make his better. Get him out.

Rosa Sat 10-Nov-12 21:21:04

Hope the card has been cancelled. Make a list of the money he has 'borrowed' off you and then ask him to pay it back at an amount a month. You can but try. Itsyour money and you want to use it to benefit you and your family/ house or whatever. Say you have closed the account or even close it and open another he does not know about ..don't give up on it its yours and even if an argument starts you should fight your corner... He will ony do it a gain. Once a thief etc etec

HecatePropylaea Sat 10-Nov-12 21:21:10

Just don't tell him your pin.

He can't use the new card without the pin.

And you're going to have to find a way to deal with him.

What's the worst that can happen if you stand up to him? Will he beat you up? Bury you under the patio? grin

No. He'll kick off.

At which point you kick him out of your house.

you have power in this situation. Use it.

Is the counselling you are having CBT? If not - get that! It is the best for reprogramming how you think so that you can deal with things you haven't been able to deal with. Because that's what you need to do - change the way you think.

DontmindifIdo Sat 10-Nov-12 21:21:20

You shouldn't have to hide your own cash card in your own home to stop your dad stealing your money. He has no right to make you live like that. Get him out. I'd tell him to not bother coming back tonight and to collect his stuff in the morning.

As for your brother, do all the men in yoru family treat you like the family bank to financial support them? Why do you let them?

picnicbasketcase Sat 10-Nov-12 21:21:21

Some building societies still have passbooks instead of cards, the West Bromwich savings account just has a book.

whatsforyou Sat 10-Nov-12 21:22:37

Magic, I have a healthy relationship with my dad now but it's taken a long time. I don't like a lot of his behaviour but I do love him. I have had to be so blunt with him and it was and still can be so hard but because I made it clear that I would not tolerate some things it is easier to stick to it now.
We by no means have a perfect relationship but he is still a big part of my life and grandchildren's life and if I hadn't faced up to the issues then he wouldn't be. I really wish you luck and hope it works out for you :-)

Bogeyface Sat 10-Nov-12 21:22:38

Sorry, could you explain more about your brothers situation?

He persuaded you to put some of your money into DBs house because DB wasnt paying the mortgage?

You need to get out of this terribly unhealthy and ABUSIVE situation.


I am sorry, I know he is your father and you love him, but that doesnt make what he is doing OK!

Cynner Sat 10-Nov-12 21:23:00

You feel like shit because your parent is stealing from you. Our parents are supposed to love and care for us. Your father is unable to be a parent in the proper sense. I'm sure that does not make you feel safe and secure at all.
He does need to leave. He is taking money from you and your child.

So your father regularly stiffs you for money, and so does your brother; and they manipulate you into feeling bad and writing it off, ready for them to do it all over again.

Yes, you are too soft. You cannot afford these men, I do think you need to tell your dad to move out. Get a lodger/flatmate instead. And as for all that " he asks me and tells me he cant get around because he has no fuel, or he cant afford to eat, or he cant pay ... " etc. etc. - that'd his problem, not yours. He's an adult and needs to take responsibility for his own finances and stop sponging off his grandchildren daughter.

MagicLlama Sat 10-Nov-12 21:30:48

Roughly? To be honest I dont even want to think about it.

In the last 3 months he has had

£230 this week
£300 last week of which hes repaid £100
£150 for car repairs
£70 from DS bday money which I ended up replacing
£400 owing from last months bill / mortgage contribution

My elder brother is an entitled fuck. We dont see each other much any more unless he wants something

Hectate No im just currently on bog standard counselling. CBT is something thats been mentioned but theres some sort of massive waiting list at the moment but my name is on that list.

See I dont know why I put up with so much from him. Well I do, its because my mum walked out 15 years ago just after his sister died he had a breakdown and I felt obliged to look after him (and my younger bro). Ive felt obliged to look after him ever since. Ive got more resentful of it as times gone on, because I feel he actively does stuff to make life harder IYSWIM?

boodles Sat 10-Nov-12 21:33:38

Your Dad is supposed to look after YOU not the other way round. You owe him nothing.

MagicLlama Sat 10-Nov-12 21:35:41

My DB has / had an expensive wife. He set up a business, he got into debt, he got into big debt. He got suicidal. He then got in a mess. My dad and DBs mum (from dads 1st marriage) persuaded me to let DB take out a loan secured on my house which he was supposed to use to pay off his creditors. Fuck only knows what he did with the money, but he didnt pay off his creditors, and he defaulted on the massive sum of money I effectively lent him. because I am idiot. He then fucked up some more got in more debt and his mum asked me to sell my field to loan him more money I had a thread about it

OMG all that money in the last month! shock angry That money could no doubt have gone on bills, xmas, the house that's in dire need of repair. You need to get angry Magic, this is really appalling!

I can see why your mum's flashpoint over him is money! hmm

Tell him you need all the money he owes. If he doesn't pay up ask him to leave. You can still support him, have him round for tea, the kids can still see him, etc.

MagicLlama Sat 10-Nov-12 21:37:39

See im all indignant about it here, but the second I have to raise it with him, I just end up feeling bad. I dont even know how it happens really, and if I say that its ended up with me feeling bad, then hell say i twisting it. I just dont get it.

Im at the point where I feel like I should move out and just let him keep the house. This house was where he lived with mum before they split. I brought both of them out.

It's not too hard to see why your mum left him, is it? Sorry, but you need to follow her example; he's not going to change and you cannot afford this. He is not your responsibility, although he has manipulated you into taking responsibility for him and his fecklessness.

HecatePropylaea Sat 10-Nov-12 21:38:34

He's not going to stop until he bleeds you dry. When you lose your home, and you've got nothing - is he going to support you?


didn't think so.

You are being financially abused and you have got to find a way to stop it. Before you have nothing left.

You are their cash cow.

People who love you don't treat you like that.

And why would you allow people who don't love you to treat you like that?

So as well as bank rolling your dad you are also conditioned to bail out your feckless brother too? shock

sad Who is looking out for you and your dcs financially? You deserve better than all this I feel so sad and angry for you.

MagicLlama Sat 10-Nov-12 21:39:59

yourhand to be fair this isnt an average month, as normally I wouldnt have the money to lend him as I usually have none left myself.

Its this CSA money you see, because I know XP will dick about with it if possible because he begrudges it to me, I thought if I could save it it would be better, ive only had some in Sept & Oct, so its that that dads "borrowed".

Normally there wouldnt be anything to give him, so its not normally such high numbers!

But when you do have money, he takes it ASAP ... sad

HecatePropylaea Sat 10-Nov-12 21:43:14

How did he know that you had extra money?

MagicLlama Sat 10-Nov-12 21:44:43

I know, I know. Its just .. hes my dad, and I dont know.

Weve had massive rows and ive said we cant live with each other because its affecting our relationship and hell say hell move out, but then hell tell DS2 (who adores him) and DS2 will get upset and dads there saying its OK hell live in the caravan and still see lots of him, and everyone is crying and bollocks im just manipulated into backing down. Ive even been known to apologise for upsetting him

To be honest its pointless. I know what I need to do. I know hes behaving like a jerk. But he does have lots of good points too, which Im not putting over here, and I just dont know. Hes got noone but me and the kids.

Bogeyface Sat 10-Nov-12 21:46:21

So you are currently paying the mortgage that your brother took out on your property?


Forget savings, use the CSA money to pay for private CBT, that is an urgent need.

HecatePropylaea Sat 10-Nov-12 21:48:55

I wonder why it is that he has nobody left.

Is it because nobody else WANTS to be in his life?...

Whose fault do you think that might be?

whatsforyou Sat 10-Nov-12 21:49:04

Even if you move out he won't stop. Your brother doesn't live with you but is still taking advantage.
Until you address this it won't stop. I know nowt about your brother's situation but am willing to bet his problems don't come from an `expensive' ex wife. He sounds like he is just careless with money because he knows that someone will bail him out!

MagicLlama Sat 10-Nov-12 21:51:17

Because we had massive drama with DS2s dad when I went to the CSA so dad knew I was going to the CSA. I also had the conversation about how I was concerned that he wouldnt pay regularly, so I was going to use it as a bonus account and try and get some of the repairs that are needed done.

The first time he had the money he asked me about swapping it. I wasnt at home so I told him he could and to get the card out of the safe upstairs bank the cheque and get the money.

I said to him tonight, that didnt mean he had licence to just go and help himself to it and that if id done that to him and just gone and taken a couple of hundred quid out of his wallet what would he think? He said he shouldnt have done it but he was desperate and that hell give me the card back and not do it again.

But really given that I know whats hes like I should have moved it / changed the pin as soon as id lent it him the first time so its my own fault.

Oh no you don't, don't you DARE blame yourself for what he has done! angry

He has really done a number on you,hasn't he?

MagicLlama Sat 10-Nov-12 21:55:41

Bogey I remortgaged in the end because it was cheaper to remortgage for the whole amount than try and pay the two amounts, so now if you ask my brother he will tell you the debt is nothing to do with him as its my mortgage the jerk

Hectate To be fair he has my younger bro, but hes moved away so theres no one local. My older brother is a twat (see above) and so dad has little to do with him. He doesnt really have any friends or hobbies or go out anywhere. He used to, but as I said he had a breakdown years ago, and he never quite got over it. Hes always been shit with money though.

whats I think its a bit of both really. grin

Bogeyface Sat 10-Nov-12 21:55:50

Oh fucking hell!


You really do believe that you are responsible for this dont you?

If you left your purse on a table in a cafe and someone nicked it, then yes it was careless of you but it wouldnt have been your fault if someone nicked it.

He chose to steal from you. He could have chosen not to.

You really do need the CBT, urgently, to stop thinking this way.

Bogeyface Sat 10-Nov-12 21:58:36

Magic do you have a will?

If you dont, then make one. November is Will Aid month (look on the moneysaver website for details), so get yourself booked with a solicitor so that your father and brother cant take your money from your DC if anything happens to you. Make sure that you choose executors that know how you have been treated by them and wont allow your family to syphon off your money. Your mum sounds like a good bet for that!

whatsforyou Sat 10-Nov-12 21:59:20

No it's not, he stole it. It's his fault. He is deliberately making you feel bad about confronting him and even worse using your children to make you feel guilty.
He is not sorry and will not stop. He will get worse and worse until you deal with it.
If you don't make him realise that you will no longer put up with this it will get to the point that he will do something so bad that you have no choice but to cut him out of your life.
He is treating you like shit and if needs to be told no more. If he wants a relationship with you and your children then he needs to treat you better. If he then chooses not then it should be clear to you where his priorities are.

DontmindifIdo Sat 10-Nov-12 21:59:29

So he's said he's sorry and he's getting money on Monday. If the 'sorry' wasn't just him trying to stop you being grumpy, you'll have the money back on Monday.

Here's the thing OP - a couple of months ago, I was walking back from a toddler singing class with a friend and went past the butchers, she mentioned she wanted to pick up some chicken for dinner but then realised she did'nt have her purse on her, so I got my purse out and handed her a tenner, which she paid me back the following week. I was at another toddler group yesterday with the same friend, I left my bag at one point to take DS to the loo, do you think she now has a right to just take some cash out of my purse because she knows I normally carry cash and my financial situation is secure so I don't really need that money right now. No? would you call that stealing? Would you think she was in the wrong? Or having once lent someone money when they were in a tight spot would you think you then should hide your cash from them?

It's not your fault your father decided to steal from you and your children. It is your fault that you give him access to your house now you know he's a thief.

confuugled Sat 10-Nov-12 22:02:13

I'm not surprised you don't have any money if your dad and bro are bleeding you dry like that!

I hope you didn't sell your field to finance your bro - sorry, haven't seen previous thread about it...

if you don't want to tell your dad that he is stealing off you and your dss then how about telling him that if he doesn't pay you back as he promised using the money he gets on Monday (instead using it to finance his own stuff) then you will consider it stealing at that point.

I would also start to keep a big sheet of paper up in the kitchen or somewhere very visible that shows 3 columns - 'What Dad Owes MagicL', 'Money Paid Back' and Balance Owing. Needs to be big and written in thick black felt pen so that you (and everyone else) can see it from across the room, not small and written in Biro so that you have to be up close to read it (if you see what I mean about the difference in seeing without making an effort and having to make an effort to read).

At the moment he's relying on you forgetting and not hassling him so that he can then help himself to borrow more. If it's up there for you both to see - and others if they are in your house - then it's going to be a lot more difficult for him to conveniently forget about it. Is it passive aggressive? Probably. But he is the one abusing you financially when you are not in a position to afford to give him this money, and if this is a tool that will help to stop that without you feeling bad about talking to your dad then go for it.

Do you think your dad had emptied his account or that he saw there was money in your account and thought he would help himself to your money and keep his own money for himself? What would your dad say if you said that as he doesn't seem to be able to budget properly then you are going to have to take over his accounts for him (not sure if this is something you would want to or have the time to do of course) - so give him a daily amount for lunch/travel/daily expenses and help him to pay the wages for materials but so that he can't go out and drink?/smoke?/indulge in other pleasures while he pays you back. If he complains then tough - he shouldn't have taken your money and spent it if he can't pay it back.

I would also tell him that if he doesn't pay you back then he will be the one explaining to your dc why Santa isn't able to bring them presents and why the house is cold because you can't afford heating etc.

DontmindifIdo Sat 10-Nov-12 22:02:22

BTW - re your brother, the phrase "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" springs to mind.

Get that money back, don't take any sob stories, remember it is your DS's money, it's the money from their father for their food, clothes and keep, even if you use your own money for that, this money is supposed to be for them, it's his grandchildren's money he's stolen, it's not your money, it's your children's.

Portofino Sat 10-Nov-12 22:03:29

You should tell him to fuck off and leave. Stop blaming yourself. He is an adult and should be responsible for himself.

CagneyNLacey Sat 10-Nov-12 22:06:25

Have you told him you've cancelled the card? Dont tell him, let him try and use it again and see if he mentions it.

Eurgh, sorry op. You've been made to feel very bad and responsible for other people's awful behaviour. You sound really nice too.

Softlysoftly Sat 10-Nov-12 22:07:36

Magic if you remortgaged for the full amount where's the extra after you paid the loans off? Or can I guess sad

Call women's aid, they may be able to help you reset your thinking, it's not just for husbands!

Oh and your mum could help you out of the trap she was in rather than just being angry.

Chunkychicken Sat 10-Nov-12 22:08:31

Seems to me that you are the financial safety net for all the feckless men in your life. Who's your safety net? Where do you go when all these men have rung every last penny from you and you've nothing left to feed your kids with?

They are ADULTS. There are many, MANY options available to people that get into debt whether their own stupidity has resulted in the situation or the economic climate etc. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HELP THEM. You need to start putting yourself and your kids first. These people, that apparently love you, are treating you like a doormat, or rather their own personal cash machine. We would all like to spend money on things we want, enjoy, rather than need, but most of us don't. That's being an responsible adult. Seems to me that none of these men have grown up at all.

If you can't say no, then you are effectively telling them its okay for them to treat you like shit, so they'll continue to do it. You need to change your behaviour here, because they're not going to (why would they??!! It's a hell of a lot easier to be feckless & stupid with money & let you bail them out, rather than be sensible and responsible with money).

It isn't your fault they behave like this. It is up to you, however, to change the situation. You either need to change how you feel about being treated this way (I.e stop getting upset by it & accept it) or change how you deal with it (tell them to fuck off).

sparklythings Sat 10-Nov-12 22:09:22

Right, let me get this straight. (Sorry been on the wine, lol)
You've given him your card, told him your pin number and told him to put the cheque in the account as you're at work, then draw it out.
He's then gone on to take out random amounts such as over £200 without your permission, and he's STILL walking around with your cash card and hasn't given it back?!
That's stealing, it isn't his money to take and he's done it without permission.
No use now, but for future reference, don't give your pin out to ANYBODY, not even family as if they do take anything out, you're likely to be seen as liable by the bank if they knew.
Secondly, get him to give you the card back. Also report the card as stolen, as you'll get a new card and pin number as your other one has been compromised.

sparklythings Sat 10-Nov-12 22:19:22

Fecking hell, sorry just read the rest of the thread. What the hell is he still doing in your house?
He needs to be out, regardless of whether he's your dad or not. He's out and out stealing from you.
As for giving a new card to your mum when you get one? Does it not TELL you something when you have to hide your cashcard away from people in case hey help themselves to your cash?! Your mum has at least seen sense with him by the sounds of your posts, and it's about time you did too.
You're a grown adult!! You should be able to look after your own finances without somebody helping themselves whenever they want.
Report the card as stolen, get a new one and DO NOT TELL HIM, OR ANYBODY, THE NEW PIN.
That way he can't take any more.

cees Sat 10-Nov-12 22:21:16

Why do you need someone else to hold your card for you, you said your 30 right? Your dad is emotionally blackmailing you and causing awful upset for your ds when he plays the 'I have to leave cause the evil cow said so' card. Why are you letting him hurt your child like that?

Locate your assertive side and get him out of your home and for heavens sake stop funding the rest of the family while your at it.

All they are doing is taking the piss and your letting them. Time for that to stop.

DontmindifIdo Sat 10-Nov-12 22:23:22

oh and another thing I've noticed, you've had to go to the CSA to get money from your exP for your DS2 and you don't get this regularly, so I'm guessing your exP was/is also crap with money. Like your dad. And your brother.

Do you see your role as being the 'sensible one' who sorts out the financial affairs and supports various men in your life? You don't seem angry about this, but blaming yourself for failing to sort this situation properly, as if it's your job to stop a man in your life taking the piss with money.

I honestly would not have my dad back in my house again after this, not even tonight - tomorrow he can collect his stuff and i would only be prepared to talk to him again if he's returned every penny. Will you do that or do you think that actually, this is ok behaviour?

Bogeyface Sat 10-Nov-12 22:23:42

This is an american website, but very informative.

Bogeyface Sat 10-Nov-12 22:26:02

This site has information about financial abuse and how to deal with it.

Would you have your father and brother in your live if they battered you? Raped you? This is abuse.

Bogeyface Sat 10-Nov-12 22:26:24
AThingInYourLife Sat 10-Nov-12 22:32:27

"it's not your money, it's your children's."

Quite right.

You have no business "lending" your children's money to your thief of a father.

MagicLlama Sat 10-Nov-12 22:36:56

See its all so simple in black and white isnt it and I love MN because youre so blunt and straight to the point.

To answer a few things before I go and catch up on Strictly .....

Bogey, wheres and whats lol could only type that on MN but it is my fault. I know what hes like. I know I cant deal with him. I should take steps to do something about it and yet I seem incapable. I cant even work out what Im worried about happening if I do.

I highly doubt any money will appear on Monday, but maybe I will be pleasantly surprised. I can live in hope grin I hope he does, I really do.

I dont think for one moment he had money and just spent mine, Im quite sure he wouldnt do that. He just doesnt budget terribly, and is constantly not paying a to pay b, its the way he always has been. Its not even like hes splashing it somewhere or has any terrible vices or goes out and fritters it all away, hes just always seems to be waiting for money to come in.

To be honest I tend to get involved with people who take advantage of me, and then Im too pathetic to tell them to fuck off. Its a bit of a vicious circle, because everytime I do I feel more idiotic and worthless and then when someone "needs" me I jump up to help. Im not sure if counselling has been good as its got me to see the behaviour yet not got me to change the cycle or if its bad as I was better off in unhappy ignorance smile

Portofino Sat 10-Nov-12 22:42:44

What can we do to help you then Magic? It is a sad fact that some of us have parents who put their own selfish shit before their children. I too have a dad like that. At the end of the day, ALL we can do is say - No that is not acceptable - bugger off and do what you want. No more emotional and financial abuse.

DontmindifIdo Sat 10-Nov-12 22:46:34

Well, you'll be asking him for the money on Monday won't you? And if he says no, will you be telling him to find somewhere else to live? Tell him to get out of your home and not come back until he's paid back every penny he owes your children (and then I'd only let him visit your house, not live in it, he's a grown up, let him find some other mug to sponge off).

You will only change the fact that people see you as a mug when you stop acting like one. Hold on to the anger on this one, get this man out of your life, he's your father, he should be pathetically grateful for what you've done for him, not making you feel bad that he took your money.

lottiegarbanzo Sat 10-Nov-12 22:52:22

You need to keep your finances separate and private. Simple really. Don't talk to him about your finances. Focus on the fact that you are saving to do the best thing for your son.

His finances are his business. Let him mange them himself. If he can't, refer him to CAB or other advisor.

If he is expecting you to pay for his staff or whatever, that needs to be agreed before they start the job. This idea that he can change the goalposts after he's commissioned the work made a commitment to them is absurd. Either you have agreed to paying for some work, or you haven't. Start writing things down and running more formal processes if you find he twists your words or acts on assumptions.

Catkinsthecatinthehat Sat 10-Nov-12 23:05:06

I remember your earlier threads. You'd bailed your brother's company out for a couple of hundred grand but it didn't work, and his massive debts were now in your name. Your family then wanted you to run his business and give him all the profits and a huge annual salary, while you got nothing, because his wife wanted to keep up appearances. He was going to kill himself if you didn't do as he said. Because of all of this your child was going without.

Your mother had a dodgy mate who was going to buy your land for a pittance in a deal she'd sewn up behind your back. Even though it would further reduce your ability to provide for your child.

You also had an affluent ex who had convinced you not to take full maintenance as it would ruin his life. And you felt guilty and agreed to this even though your child lost out.

And now your father is stealing from you and you're faffing about whether to accept this state of affairs or not. Even though it's raining on your kid's head through the hole in the roof as a result.

You come across as a caring, kind and generous person who worries about her family. But every single close family member repeatedly fucks you over and guilt trips you for cash and you let them, to the detriment of your son. You are both an abused child and the family cash cow, and you can't seem to break the cycle of guilt and financial abuse, even if your child suffers. You really need to explore why you allow this to continue and why so many people in your life are happy to impoverish you, with your blessing.

lottiegarbanzo Sat 10-Nov-12 23:10:15

Jesus, reading Catkin's post you must be earning £100ks a year to keep this all going. Just think what you could do with the money!

Ra88 Sat 10-Nov-12 23:17:46

Cancel the card ! And tell him you will report him if he doesn't repay you ASAP ! Family or not that is theft

cbeebiesatemybrain Sun 11-Nov-12 00:30:00

I remember your previous thread and I totally agree with everything Catkins said. This is just the tip of a massive iceberg.

McChristmasPants2012 Sun 11-Nov-12 00:45:38

Bloody hell, the money you have written off could have fixed the roof.

Your father sounds toxic and a financially abuse arsehole.
Tbh he would be out of my home before he has an impact on ds.

Sorry to be blunt, but your brother and father are cut from the same cloth do you really want your son picking up on this and seeing this as normal.

lottiegarbanzo Sun 11-Nov-12 03:16:58

And that's just the money you've written off in the last three months.

You asked for a better phrase, how about 'stealing food from the mouth of babes'. That's exactly what he's doing with your CSA money.

He knows his own record, so good intentions and ability to pay do not match. Does he expect some windfall, or something to be different in future from the way things have always been to date? Give him a bill, with payment deadlines and interest and make clear that, while you're willing to support him emotionally as a daughter, your primary responsibility in all ways is to your son.

If he's running a business he needs business accounts. Does he employ all these blokes to make himself feel useful and in control of something, or is he actually running a profitable business? I think we can guess the answer. Either his business makes a profit or he needs to wind it up. If he commissions work he cannot pay for, he is a fool and will face his creditors, in court if needs be.

Next time he wants to cash a cheque he takes it to his bank. Do not give him access to any of your money. Change he code on your safe. If he whines, confront him with he evidence. Do keep it displayed prominently until he repays you in full - like a child's reward chart.

MagicLlama Sun 11-Nov-12 07:01:14

Sorry fell asleep!

Portro To be honest just talking about it on here helps. I need to sort my shit out as the phrase goes and get into a position to move him out. Its just that I see him with the DSs and I think how much crap they have gone through and I wonder if dads shit is worth it to give them that IYSWIM? Maybe thats my real AIBU?

Fucking hell catkins when you write it sounds really bad! And thats not even all the crap, its just the big ones. I normally wouldnt even post what happened last night because im just so aware that its crap, but almost dont want to know that it is because I have to deal with it. I need to sort this out.

I have been a daddys girls and dads shadow since before I could walk. He had a breakdown when I was 8 and hes never been the same since then, and I knew it, and I pretty much started being there for him then as my mother wasnt. She then finally moved out for the final time when I was 16 and dad had another breakdown and ive been taking the place of the person he relies on ever since. I do it because Im aware he has noone else, and hes scared of being alone. Hes had some rough breaks and I feel like I have to help him. My counseller said to me last week, so youll be writing your life off until you are 50 then looking after your dad will and, and I just shrugged. Fucking shrugged. I think I said on my other thread I always feel like my opinions dont matter, and its not just with my family, its with my friends as well.

Thats what I need to change and thats what I need to work out how to do.

Dad has loads of good points and they are getting lost in all this resentment I feel at him, for at this financial stuff, and I dont want to end up cutting him off because he does something so terrible that I cant take it anymore.

Animation Sun 11-Nov-12 07:38:11

Magic - have you got the card back?

rogersmellyonthetelly Sun 11-Nov-12 10:33:08

This is a bad situation, and will only get worse if you allow it to continue.
It's not your fault that your dad is daft with money, but if you want to continue to have a relationship with him which isn't bitter and resentful on your part then you need to take action.
You have cancelled the card - this is good.
Write down everything he has borrowed over the last month, and how much he has paid back, and how much is still outstanding.
Then ask him exactly what he has spent the money on, which will highlight any problems with his business, and also any problems with his other spending.
Then work out exactly how much he needs for materials etc for jobs this month, and how much money he is expecting, and therefore how much he can afford to pay back. Leave him an allowance for daily food etc, and a reasonable amount of enjoyment. If he chooses to fritter it away on other stuff, that's his problem, and he can make sandwiches or whatever instead. Ask to see invoices and receipts for materials etc so you know that he has enough to cover them and that he is actually paying the invoices with the money he has. I wouldn't be surprised if there is something else going on behind all this - those amounts of money are significant, regular and any small business with that sort of cash flow problem is in big trouble.
I have a little experience with this as my own dad was running a business which had constant cash flow problems, he took out loan after loan, defaulted, had overdrafts etc and was hiding the letters from my mother, who would find them and be worried sick. She was working and running the whole house and 2 cars on £800 a month, and dad was drawing out random money for food, magazines etc from the joint account, rather than taking sandwiches etc. in the end it took myself and 2 sisters to sit him down in a room, with locked doors so he couldn't storm out, and we basically told him the business had to close down. It took a couple of months of insisting from us, as he kept on saying this money is owed and that money is coming this week, and if I buy this amazing new machine I can get this extra work etc etc. thankfully his credit score was so bad no one would lend him any extra money, the business closed down, and he was left with around £50k of debt to pay off, he has reached agreements with lenders and is paying an agreed amount each month, which my mother pays. He has no cash card, no access to money other than what he asks for and is within reason given. Yes, he is treated like a child with respect to money, and no there is no dignity in a grown man having to ask for money rather than being able to get it for himself, but since he has shown himself to be about as capable as a 10yo with regards to spending appropriately, then this is the way it has to be in order to preserve everyone's sanity and solvency!

ImperialBlether Sun 11-Nov-12 10:38:06

OP, you need to live separately from your dad. You really do. He can still see your children frequently. He really isn't the kind of example of a man you want to give your children anyway, is he?

I'm angry at your mum, allowing him to depend on you like that, so that she could carry on living her life as she wanted to.

I think it's time you got angry at the way all of your family have treated you.

ModernToss Sun 11-Nov-12 11:30:04

I remember your thread about your brother, your mother and the field, MagicLlama - it was jaw-dropping. Your brother in particular is a piece of work.

I'm so sorry your family takes advantage of you this way.

I understand that you love your dad and he's had a hard time, but who supports you? You are carrying the weight of your entire family, when really you should only be supporting your kids, and should in turn be getting support from your parents.

I agree with the previous post - GET ANGRY!

lottiegarbanzo Sun 11-Nov-12 13:51:32

I wonder, if you told your Dad the account was to save for your son's Christmas presents, would he still 'borrow' from it? Is there any level to which he would not stoop? (Not that repairing a roof is any less important than presents, it's more so, in a very basic 'physical security and roof over your head' way but it sounds more grown-up and less emotive).

I just don't see how, if you set out his 'borrowings' over the last three months and what he's paid back, he can claim not to understand the problem.

DontmindifIdo Sun 11-Nov-12 14:01:55

Hes had some rough breaks and I feel like I have to help him

OP - you have had some really rough breaks, you've been stolen from and ripped off by the people you should trust the most. Who is helping you? Short answer, noone, so why do you feel it's ok for people to expect you to stand on your own two feet, but not your father?

You need to get him out of your house. You need to keep these posionous people away from your DSs, you do not want them to teach your DSs this is an acceptable way to treat people. If your DSs turn out like your dad, you will have failed.

Here's a harsh thing you need to realise, you are prioritising being a "good daughter" over being a "good mum" - you are letting your DCs security be less important than your dads. This isn't about you any more, he's stolen from your children and you have showed them that that's ok.

You don't have to look after your dad, you do have to look after your DSs. So put them first. Get him out and tell him he either pays you back on Monday the money he stole or you will report him to the police. And mean it. I bet with the threat of hte police hanging over him, he'll get his shit together.

In my experience, people who can't budget fall into two categories, people who have so much money it doesn't matter, and people who have someone else to bail them out. Your dad is in the second category, you will have have bailed him out over and over so he doesn't need to be good with money, he can spend all his and then all yours and then all your DSs. And when then well dries up, he'll find someother mug. Make him go find his next mug now.

Teabagtights Sun 11-Nov-12 14:08:38

Your father and brother know you are a pushover so take the piss. Whilst ou have anything they will always be pounces.

You never listened before n here this time you won't listen again.

You are a fool to yourself. Wen you have kids they come first before anything you are allowing your family to rob you blind. They aren't just robbing you they are thriving from your kids. If you won't tend up for yourself do the right thing for your kids.

nkf Sun 11-Nov-12 14:16:50

People who are "bad at budgetting" are just opting out of adult life. After you've stopped the card, make it clear how much he owes you and ask for a repayment plan. Say you need to budget for yourself and your child. You need to fix the roof. It's your money and you need it back for your needs. He may not give the money back and that will sting but as, of today, you are not lending him another penny. If you need help with the mortgage, you can always get a lodger. Good luck.

lottiegarbanzo Sun 11-Nov-12 21:30:59

Sorry to keep coming back but this thread has stuck in my mind as it's just so very extraordinary and so wrong.

Two things occur to me:

1) According to your post at 21.30 last night, he probably isn't paying you rent and contributing to bills, or hasn't in the last three months anyway. Perhaps £400 is only part of his monthly contribution, in which case a huge amount is owing. If £400 was the total monthly contribtion he would have paid you only £150 of £1,200 owed in the last three months.

2) An even bigger issue is that, from what I can gather (the full picture may be different) he would appear to be running an unprofitable, failing business. You appear to be subsidising that business in order to give him a hobby, to maintain his self esteem.

A failing business run by someone with no money sense is bound to fail, sooner or later. That is outside your control, unless you take over the running of the whole thing and even then, it could fail. The sooner you allow it to fail, the more subsidy you save and the better you can provide for your sons.

Stop throwing good money after bad. Your Dad needs to take responsibility for his own finances and face up to the consequences of his actions.

If you want to keep him busy, happy and solvent, help him look for a suitable salaried job.

You need to think about the fact that your child is at a disadvantage because of the way you are allowing your family to treat you.

Step up and tell your father to get lost.

OhTheConfusion Sun 11-Nov-12 22:45:51

Gosh I remember the brother/field thread:-( did you sell it in the end? Can you afford to live in the house on you own? If so I would ask your dad to leave. He is a grown man and taking advantage of your kind nature.

PopMusicShoobyDoobyDoA Sun 11-Nov-12 23:11:07

I hate to say this OP, you need to break out of the cycle of abuse from your family because ten /twenty years down the line, it could be your DS's causing you grief. Sorry sad

OP - you keep referring to the past, e.g. being a daddy's girl, etc. STOP.

Whatever has happened before sounds awful, but it is time to draw a line under it.

Make the decision and stick to it. That's all there is to it.

sashh Mon 12-Nov-12 03:44:14

It is stealing. Get a new card and a new pin.

If dad is going to ontinue to live with you then don't keep the card in a safe, freeze it in a big block of ice.

Why did you need to cash his cheque? Doesn't he have a bank account?

Jojoba1986 Mon 12-Nov-12 04:54:53

OP, can you write your dad a letter? Just a factual 'this is what you've taken from us' & explaining that you are not a bank & need to look after your children which you cannot do if you are having to support him. Tell him you expect to have the money he promised you by Tuesday at the latest & he is to leave it for you on Tuesday when he leaves your house. Tell your DC that he will no longer be living with you because grown ups need to have their own homes but they will see him lots. Tell them before he has a chance to manipulate them. If he tries to discuss/argue about it then simply repeat, "I said everything I have to say in the letter. I will not change my mind." Stand by this. Walk out of the room. Do not enter into a discussion with him. If he claims he has nowhere else to go, repeat the above, maybe accompanied by a comment about where the nearest b&b is. If he's still not left by Tuesday night, wait until he leaves the house next, pack a suitcase for him & leave it outside with a note asking him to contact you within a month to arrange to collect the rest of his things. Make it clear to him that he his welcome to spend time with the children as long as he follows certain rules: he is not to come into your house, he can take them for walks/to the park; he is not to discuss your disagreement with them & if asked he is to tell them he left because it was time for him to find his own home. Let him know that you will limit his contact with them if he breaks your rules.

I know this sounds harsh but it is going to take an aggressive, hard-line response from you if he is to stop taking your money. He will react badly. He will act as if you've mortally wounded him. But he will find somewhere else to live, someone else to mooch off & he will get over it eventually & behave himself. There's a slim chance that he won't but you'll be able to hold your head high in the knowledge that you have done what is best for everyone. This is not a healthy relationship for you & him or him & your children.

As far as CBT goes, it enables you to help yourself. You are already able to help yourself, the CBT just guides you through the process. It's difficult to begin with but what the CBT will encourage you to do is: 1. Identify how you think you should behave, 2. Do it. Whether you're receiving your support from a trained professional or strangers on the net, it is up to you to take the steps necessary to change your life. You've already identified the problem & that you want to change it. You need to decide how you want to proceed & then you need to take a deep breath & take the plunge. If at any time you feel overwhelmed, take a step back & come on here for support. Tell your dad you need to think about it if necessary, this will give him false hope but you will have time to rebuild your confidence. If in doubt repeat to yourself, "I am doing what is best. I can do this." as many times as it takes for you to believe it!

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